1 00:00:01,300 --> 00:00:04,100 From India's largest Newsroom. I'm Martin George. 2 00:00:04,100 --> 00:00:06,500 And this is the times of India podcast. 3 00:00:19,700 --> 00:00:21,500 On the 3rd of May in the evening. 4 00:00:21,900 --> 00:00:25,100 I'm late the of evening Miriam in the office hours have been 5 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:29,400 already over. So and Lady evening around 5 to 6 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,400 6, will I receive a message that your speaker feeling pools in 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,600 the area? And then we thought, hopefully 8 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,900 things will be brought under control. 9 00:00:37,900 --> 00:00:44,300 If curfew has been imposed around, 8:00 8:00, right? 10 00:00:46,300 --> 00:00:50,400 People started banging the electric poles in and around our 11 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,500 area. And then I guess all those 12 00:00:54,600 --> 00:01:02,500 miscreants that in Kettering and by about 8:30, became a knock or 13 00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:07,000 V8 and then they break into the gate, there are more than 30 to 14 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,300 40 people. I guess that's a victim of the 15 00:01:10,300 --> 00:01:12,500 recent riots. In Manipur speaking with my 16 00:01:12,500 --> 00:01:15,800 colleague pinaki chakrabarty, we not Revenge His name or his 17 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,000 place of residence to protect his identity. 18 00:01:18,300 --> 00:01:20,900 He describes what happened. Next, on the night of the third 19 00:01:20,900 --> 00:01:28,700 of me entering the house, the forcefully, broke the door and 20 00:01:28,700 --> 00:01:30,600 everything. Whatever is there inside the 21 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:36,000 house, every items in the house of being in Brookville broken, 22 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:41,800 the vandalized, everything TV, so far class are Mira freeze. 23 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,700 Everything we were actually locked up inside her bedroom. 24 00:01:48,300 --> 00:01:51,400 So, this is hoping that they would come inside the bathroom, 25 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,200 and then after the event device, everything in the other room. 26 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:56,700 So I started smoking the bedroom. 27 00:01:56,700 --> 00:02:00,900 So the flock to that obvious, keep quiet and then, let's pray 28 00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:04,300 for the safety. And by the grace of God, they 29 00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:06,000 didn't forcefully entered the bedroom. 30 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,800 They leave it for a while and talking to each other. 31 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,800 That they will burn down this and all that will be hard time. 32 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,400 so we went through everything and they went out, we request 33 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,100 our neighbors who comment because of At least 60, people 34 00:02:26,100 --> 00:02:28,300 have died in the violence that erupted in Manipur. 35 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:31,400 After the third of me in which two communities targeted, each 36 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,500 other thousands, like the person, you just heard lost 37 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:37,600 their homes in the violence, and over, 20,000 people who said to 38 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,900 be living in police or Army Camps for safety, after days of 39 00:02:40,900 --> 00:02:43,700 curfew and shoot at sight, orders come seems to have 40 00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:46,600 finally returned to the state, but it might also be a good time 41 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,200 to look at what started the violence and how to prevent it 42 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,600 from flaring up. Again, in today's episode, we're 43 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,900 taking a closer look at the violence that erupted in the 44 00:02:53,900 --> 00:02:55,300 state. Eight and whether things could 45 00:02:55,300 --> 00:02:57,700 have been handled better. We speaking with Professor 46 00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:00,600 Juggernaut MBA, good idea. He's the dean of the school of 47 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,600 social sciences and Humanities at the GAO, hottie Campus of the 48 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,700 Tata Institute of social sciences, his areas of research, 49 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:09,800 include tribal communities and politics, as well as conflict. 50 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,900 Studies, the riots that broke out in manipura largely blamed 51 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:15,700 on a protest rally by the cookie and Naga communities. 52 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,400 The rally was opposing the possibility of the Mythic 53 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,500 Community being included in the schedule. 54 00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:22,700 Tribe category. However, violence had been 55 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:25,700 simmering in the state for almost Earlier with an event 56 00:03:25,700 --> 00:03:28,800 organized for the chief minister being burned down by protesters 57 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:31,200 in the Torah, chandpur District of the state. 58 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,200 The meaty Community constitutes around 50 percent of the state's 59 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,600 population and the largely live in the relatively more developed 60 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,900 Valley, districts of the state, the cookie and other tribal 61 00:03:40,900 --> 00:03:43,000 groups are much smaller and population. 62 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,800 And while many live in the valley regions, a majority, 63 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:47,900 still live in the relatively underdeveloped Hill. 64 00:03:47,900 --> 00:03:50,900 Regents Professor Juggernaut, says, the outbreak of violence 65 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:54,000 over a demand forecast or try based Kota has been seen. 66 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,400 In States like Rajasthan and odisha in the past. 67 00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:59,000 But he says, in the case of money poor, they were plenty of 68 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,800 signs of unrest before the violence broke out. 69 00:04:02,900 --> 00:04:07,900 It's not new in India that the demand for getting included in 70 00:04:07,900 --> 00:04:11,500 esta category is experiencing violence but what is significant 71 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:16,899 in the case of Manipur is is that it is not the overnight, 72 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,100 kind of violence, the violence was getting simmered over the 73 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:27,400 period and however, the recent Judgment of the order of Manipur 74 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,800 High Court has in October of the issues to get it more. 75 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,500 Why would this demand for reservations Park, so much 76 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:40,500 violence. If you look at the history of 77 00:04:40,500 --> 00:04:43,400 reservation in India, in different parts of the country, 78 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,000 where we start in 1990s about the Obesity is, and all those 79 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,100 things that this has been associated with violence, in one 80 00:04:51,100 --> 00:04:54,500 way or the other. But in the case of money for 81 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:59,500 what I have, the little sense about it is that the to oppose 82 00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:02,400 the long-standing demand of Mythic community. 83 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:05,100 It is to get included in St list. 84 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:09,500 Then there was a solidarity march by the tribal 85 00:05:09,500 --> 00:05:13,700 organizations of money poor because probably not saying 86 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,000 positively by the cookie Community. 87 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:22,500 But what I would like to in a raise in this context is the 88 00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:25,500 history of demand for scheduled tribe status by Dimitri 89 00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:31,300 community and I read the high court order with sensitivity as 90 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:34,800 well as closed eyes only. And one of the justifications 91 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,600 that the high court is providing, of course, these 92 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,500 justifications being submitted by the meaty tribe Union that 93 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:46,800 they were part of the still list prior to the, you know, prior to 94 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,000 the state, get and next with the Indian Union. 95 00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:53,800 If we really good with this, kind of reason, is the 96 00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:57,800 rationality for including the, you know, method community in St 97 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,800 list, which is just, at least, then the whole issues of Of 98 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,700 similar kind will also be in a coming forward because this is 99 00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:11,600 not the only state which experienced such kind of Demands 100 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,500 for inclusion based on the list that was there which was 101 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:18,200 prepared in 1936. There were also other states 102 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,200 that has I do work very closely with the state of odisha and 103 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,100 there were certain communities were part of the Estill is 104 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:27,600 before the independence and they have been excluded from the 105 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,400 established. So if we give some kind of green 106 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:35,700 green signal to such issue them, We will be, you know, we will be 107 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:40,000 experiencing series of similar kind of demands in days to come. 108 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,900 As per the official figures there are over, 700 tribes that 109 00:06:43,900 --> 00:06:46,500 are acknowledged by the government of India, this list 110 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:49,300 of tribes across India was formulated after Independence 111 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,900 while the meet the petitioners argued before the state's high 112 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:55,100 court, that they deserve to be categorized as a tribe because 113 00:06:55,100 --> 00:06:57,800 they were considered a crime under colonial rule Professor 114 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,100 Juggernaut says, the Court's order asking the state 115 00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:03,100 government to consider granting the métis, communities, demand 116 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,800 angered groups, like the cookies who weren't even heard. 117 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,700 In the case, Professor, ambiguity explains why the High 118 00:07:08,700 --> 00:07:11,600 Court verdict on granting reservations to the Community 119 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:16,400 ended up angering other groups. Because he listened, I could 120 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,100 order has raised a series of unaddressed questions or 121 00:07:21,100 --> 00:07:24,700 unsettled questions. And one of such aspect is the 122 00:07:24,700 --> 00:07:29,500 procedures that is involved. In recommending, for letting 123 00:07:29,500 --> 00:07:33,400 certain communities in the still is, and if you read the high 124 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,800 court order, then in one way or the other, the order seems to me 125 00:07:38,100 --> 00:07:41,800 of positive to the Mythic community. 126 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,900 That is, if the court is considering That they are 127 00:07:44,900 --> 00:07:47,200 already tried. So the state governments would 128 00:07:47,207 --> 00:07:50,800 recommend for their inclusion. Rather, the court should have 129 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,300 been focused more attention on the process has to be followed 130 00:07:54,300 --> 00:07:57,800 to recommend a particular Community to be included in. 131 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,300 Estill is. And if we look at the processes, 132 00:08:00,300 --> 00:08:04,000 then that has to be recommended by the state government 133 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:09,600 supported by register general of India and finally advocated or 134 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,700 supported by the ministry of tribal ever. 135 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:16,600 So that will can be placed in the hence, but before the state 136 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,500 government recommends, the state government needs to conduct or 137 00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:24,900 carry out ethnographic study to look at whether the communities 138 00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:28,700 and in this context the method Community really qualified to be 139 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:31,700 included in. The Estill is so instead of 140 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,700 ordering the state government to recommend for the inclusion of 141 00:08:34,700 --> 00:08:38,000 native community in the St list, the court would have been asked 142 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,900 the state government to initiate the process of conducting the 143 00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:45,200 ethnographic studies and unfortunately, the Time limit 144 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,400 that the court said that is within four weeks was 145 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,700 undesirable in this contact. With all due respect to the high 146 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:54,800 court of money purse For now, the Supreme Court has put the 147 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,500 money for high Court's order on hold after, it was challenged 148 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,000 Professor Juggernaut says, there's been a history of land 149 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,100 conflict between the methane cookie communities in the state. 150 00:09:03,300 --> 00:09:06,200 However he sees the current outbreak of violence linked to 151 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,700 two factors, one Community is feeling of lacking political 152 00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:13,300 power and the other wanting the benefits of reservation in order 153 00:09:13,300 --> 00:09:15,100 to have access to different resources. 154 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,800 I don't have much idea about the history of cookies as well as 155 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,200 made this but about the period. This is not the only you know, 156 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,000 instances where both these communities have engaged in 157 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,300 Conflict, your relationship in the past. 158 00:09:29,300 --> 00:09:31,800 Also they had engaged in land conflicts. 159 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,200 If we look at this aspect then I think the larger issue that is 160 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,100 getting reflected over the period And I do believe has much 161 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:46,100 to contribute to the present violence is the the the sense of 162 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:51,100 Dominance, as well as dominated. What is seats are located in 163 00:09:51,100 --> 00:09:56,400 Valley areas, where most of the method communities are living 164 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,500 and 19 states are to the hill areas. 165 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:04,300 So, any kind of policy decisions are largely being carried out in 166 00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:07,200 the assembly when it is confined to the state. 167 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,600 Then, of course, these days democracy function on the basis 168 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,000 of majority and if anything that is linked with certain kind of 169 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,700 communities, then Will be some kind of soft corners from the 170 00:10:18,700 --> 00:10:22,700 MLS or political representatives from their own community. 171 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,900 So in this sense, the sense of deprivation, the sense of 172 00:10:25,900 --> 00:10:29,300 marginalization the sense of short Change in terms of 173 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:32,900 accessing political power. Political position is already 174 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:38,400 being in I sensed by the cookie communities or tribal in general 175 00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:44,300 and the other interesting aspect why they are more more opposing 176 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:46,100 to the issue of extending esteli. 177 00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:52,300 Is to the metal Community, is that if they are included in the 178 00:10:52,300 --> 00:10:56,000 St list, then the method Community can also move to the 179 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,500 hilly areas, then they can buy land which is prohibited at the 180 00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:02,800 point of time and the seats that are being represented by the 181 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:06,100 tribal communities from Hill areas can also go to the met the 182 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:08,800 community. So I would like to make, you 183 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,600 know, raise a larger question here. 184 00:11:11,100 --> 00:11:13,300 The larger question is that though? 185 00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:16,100 They were excluded from 1949 onward. 186 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,400 Then why all sorts demands demands are coming up in the 187 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:23,000 Contemporary period? One of the ways to understand 188 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,300 why these demands are coming up in the present context is the 189 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:30,700 issues of resource, scarcity. I don't think the method 190 00:11:30,700 --> 00:11:34,700 Community wanted to be treated the way tribal communities are 191 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:38,500 being treated at this point of time where the stereotyping the 192 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,700 discrimination marginalization are part and parcel of tribal 193 00:11:41,700 --> 00:11:44,600 Community, I don't think they would like to have that kind of 194 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,600 experience. However, You know what they are. 195 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,400 Raising is the raising the issues of identity crisis, the 196 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,200 want to rejuvenate, they want to reinstate the kind of identity 197 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,400 that they had and they are raising that they would like to 198 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,400 protect their or promote their culture language identity but 199 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,000 they have never been raising except the land questioned, 200 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,100 raising in issues of political reservation or political 201 00:12:09,100 --> 00:12:12,200 resources or any kind of opportunities that are extended 202 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,200 to the tribal communities. What I feel at this point of 203 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,800 time, you know? Is that this has emerged or 204 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,000 resurfaced in the Contemporary period because of increasing 205 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,500 competition to have access to resources. 206 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,600 Whether it is political resources, social resources, as 207 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:33,300 well as economic resources before, this speed of violence 208 00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:36,600 broke out, you had outbreak of violence involving the chief 209 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,400 Minister's event in the state, which caused also for a copy of 210 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,100 South to be imposed in as District. 211 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,600 All of this started from the Moment, stand on reserved 212 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,400 Forest. Why would a policy on reserved 213 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,100 Forest? Not even policy on it as much as 214 00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:57,900 just a survey of reserved for is spark so much anger. 215 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,300 Because if we are taking any kind of policy, decisions, or 216 00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:07,300 any kind of enquiry, then that should have been applied across 217 00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:10,600 the states. So whether comedy initiated this 218 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:16,100 the way in, to touch a district, then the people of Tourism 219 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:20,100 District, or the tribals of Tourism District, develop the 220 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,900 sense that they have been targeted because it's not that, 221 00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:25,900 that is the only District where you can find the result as well 222 00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:28,400 as Forest as well as protected Forest are days. 223 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,900 The kind of justification that the government is providing in 224 00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:34,900 this context, is that the tribals are encroaching the 225 00:13:34,900 --> 00:13:37,700 land. And so on so forth, of course, 226 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:39,300 two substances, such kind of claim. 227 00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:43,900 The government might have initiated the survey but that 228 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:45,800 could have been initiated across the state. 229 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,200 Not only Only in the context of the particular District if we if 230 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,700 we initiate such kind of survey in a particular District, then 231 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,000 it is obvious that the people who are living in, those 232 00:13:56,100 --> 00:14:00,400 districts will certainly develop the sense of, you know, getting 233 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,900 targeted by the administration. And at the same time, it has 234 00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:07,000 been raised over the period, that there is a political 235 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,100 dominance of Mythic Community where the present chief minister 236 00:14:10,100 --> 00:14:12,900 is also happens to be from the same community, so they are 237 00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:16,500 looking from different perspectives within the Other 238 00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:19,600 framework of domination discrimination as well as 239 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,800 marginalization as for the tribal communities of money for 240 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:27,200 our concern. Another Factor that's been 241 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,200 cited. As a reason for the violence is 242 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:35,100 also, the influx of people from Myanmar, how much of a factor 243 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:39,300 should we view that as I think it's one of the interesting 244 00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:44,700 questions that the Contemporary nation state is dealing with and 245 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:47,700 it has been pointed out that and that has been because one of my 246 00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:51,300 PhD students is also working on the communities living in the 247 00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:56,900 Borderland of Myanmar, as well as money born, where there is a 248 00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:59,400 continuous influx of the Myanmar. 249 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,900 People on the other side of the border, that is Indian side of 250 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:04,900 the Border. They have been continuously 251 00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:06,700 coming to the Indian side of the Border. 252 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,000 Our for trade economic relationship and so on so forth. 253 00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:14,300 And what she has also found in her study is that some of some 254 00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:17,200 people have already rehabilitated or some people 255 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,300 have already settled in the Indian side of the Border, this 256 00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:23,200 may be one of the important leader. 257 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:28,100 You know, may be supplemented reasons for the state government 258 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:30,800 to move in because the state government has been repeatedly, 259 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,500 raising the questions of encroaching Forest land and the, 260 00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:38,200 the citizenship question in the modern era, Especially people 261 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,100 living in the Borderland for them political citizenship, or 262 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:46,000 the kind of legal citizenship, that the modern nation state has 263 00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:49,600 defined appears to be less significant than the ethnic 264 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,400 citizenship. And in the context of people 265 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,900 coming from the venomous side, then it is believed that they 266 00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:58,200 also raised the questions of inappropriately during the 267 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,400 international border between India, as well as male, Mark, 268 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,400 where the people from the same category or same ethnic 269 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,200 affiliation have been, you know, put in two sides of the border. 270 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,400 So they continue to maintain that kind of close relationship 271 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,300 and it has been pointed out that the the cookies are for the 272 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:19,500 tribal communities of Manipur are more sympathetic to the 273 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:22,400 people who are coming from the main map because they have also 274 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,800 undergone through a political prosecution's of the kind of 275 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,100 political disturbances political violin. 276 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,500 So they came to India to secure some kind of Safe Life, which 277 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:36,700 has not been positively seen by the state of Manipur and Mom. 278 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,300 A is being raising that these migrants have also been 279 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,100 encouraging the land. So there was a need for going 280 00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:46,500 for survey on all those things that has triggered the issues 281 00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:49,700 but I don't think that is the major reason of the Contemporary 282 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:51,700 violin. The issue here is perhaps the 283 00:16:51,708 --> 00:16:55,900 competition over resources that we have been excellent over the 284 00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:58,700 period which has becoming scarce day by day. 285 00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:02,800 A lot of the survivors have spoken about how it seemed 286 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:04,900 organized. They were indications that 287 00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:09,400 things were not exactly, right. How do you believe the state 288 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,800 could have done more to prevent this? 289 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:16,000 I think, you know, one of the significant reasons behind this 290 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:21,400 violence is the long-standing feeling of relative deprivation 291 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,500 that has been generated by the tribal communities of money per. 292 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,000 Because, if you look at the composition of the assembly 293 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,100 since then, Then manipulate has 60 assembly seats out of which 294 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,800 40 seats are, you know, located in Valley areas where there are 295 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,100 the high preponderance of method community and one is reserved 296 00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:42,100 for the schedule. Caste and 19 are reserved for 297 00:17:42,100 --> 00:17:44,800 the tribal community that are located in hilly areas. 298 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,900 So the tension in the political sphere was already there among 299 00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:54,400 the tribal communities, then the state government would have 300 00:17:54,400 --> 00:18:00,000 taken appropriate initiatives to reduce or contain the Existing 301 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,300 tensions between these communities. 302 00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:06,000 Another immediate step that the state government could have been 303 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,900 taken. In this case, is that because 304 00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:11,200 the high court has highlighted that the state government was 305 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,100 sitting over the, you know, later of the ministry of tribal 306 00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:17,300 Affairs, for around 10 years, state government was not doing 307 00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:19,900 anything. Then that also indicates that 308 00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:24,400 the state government probably was either not interested or had 309 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,000 got the sense. That metacommunity probably may 310 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,000 not qualify to be considered as settled. 311 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:31,600 Riots. So when the court order or 312 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,300 delivered its order, then the immediate State for the state 313 00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:37,500 government could have been filed with the petition and filing, 314 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:40,700 the really petitioner could have been calm down the violence that 315 00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:43,800 we have been looking at, for instance, in arunachal Pradesh. 316 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,300 When the supreme court order giving citizenship status to 317 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:50,000 some of the refugees. Like Chuck man has on then 318 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,500 immediately because the native or naturally tribes were not in 319 00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:56,900 favor of granting citizenship status to the, to the migrants. 320 00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:59,000 So in this context, the immediate stepped a stately. 321 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,000 Look. Is it file written petition. 322 00:19:01,100 --> 00:19:06,500 So but filing the reputation could have helped us to avoid 323 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:09,700 the kind of violence that we have experiencing in the present 324 00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:12,400 period. One of the BJP MLA has filed a 325 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,300 pil in the Supreme Court and supreme court has come out with 326 00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:19,400 a Clarity that this the high court doesn't have the authority 327 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,600 or has no jurisdiction to recommend for the inclusion of 328 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,900 the, you know, of certain communities in the Travel list. 329 00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:29,700 So the immediate step that the state government could have Been 330 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,600 that it took the initiative to clamp down the reserve Forest, 331 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,800 as well as for a survey that conducted in tourism to put 332 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,500 District that has essentially that has essentially disturb the 333 00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:44,000 areas and that was the tension was, you know, building of and 334 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,200 making the order of heiko do March high court public. 335 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,400 In April, has certainly probably issue to get more violence. 336 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:57,100 We're at a stage now, where we are being told that the violence 337 00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:00,800 has seemingly ended there. Is a sort of calm in the region. 338 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:02,900 How long do you see this lasting for one? 339 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:05,500 And how do you see this going forward? 340 00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:09,100 When you talk about wallpaper resolution mechanisms and in 341 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:11,800 conflict resolution mechanisms, we do talk about two types of 342 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,200 approaches. One is preventive error. 343 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,800 The other one is proactive approach to deal with conflict. 344 00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:21,800 Whatever the government's, the steps have been taken that can 345 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,900 be considered as a preventive measures. 346 00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:27,200 To contain the violence. No doubt. 347 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,900 Some sort of violence, whether to generating fear among the 348 00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:32,400 People. By ordering suited site in a 349 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,100 limited way or whatever it may be. 350 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,000 That has also created a pure psychosis among the people where 351 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,400 the people are not getting the sense to go out and protest or 352 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,800 attack each other to some extent, whatever, the major, the 353 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,400 security measures that the state government as well as central 354 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,100 government have followed and contain the violence. 355 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:55,600 But I don't think if we don't address the Root cause of the 356 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,500 conflict then probably this is not going to, you know, last for 357 00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:04,200 long and here the root cause could be that creating more and 358 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,000 more job opportunities here. The root cause could be that we 359 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,800 need to take certain kind of initiative. 360 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,800 So that the people can feel that they are politically included 361 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,300 and they are not politically dominated by the other 362 00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:18,900 community, unless we bring such kind of changes in the mindset 363 00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:22,100 of the people than this, kind of violence will continue to 364 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,400 happen. Of course, with regular Ville. 365 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,500 And at one point or the other, I feel that the violence will 366 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,700 happen. Again, considering the history 367 00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:35,000 of relationship between cookies as well as the other communities 368 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,200 in the state. Professor Juggernaut says, there 369 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,400 are two measures that he feels can help reduce the animosity 370 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,400 between the two communities for some time to come for one. 371 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,100 Check. If the meteor Community wants a 372 00:21:46,108 --> 00:21:49,600 reservations or just better access to economic resources. 373 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,300 One of the immediate steps that the government should take off 374 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:57,800 is to conduct a research about the Mythic Community. 375 00:21:58,300 --> 00:22:03,300 I don't think the all the métis communities are in favor of 376 00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:07,600 getting included in St list, let the detailed survey we conducted 377 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,200 among the métis communities and see whether all of them agree to 378 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:17,100 be part of History communities. Or is it the initiative of 379 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,400 certain politically driven, you know? 380 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:25,700 Leaders who could try to establish their dominance in the 381 00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:31,200 reason, the research or the service should also look at is 382 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,600 the Demand, only for real, you know, asserting their identities 383 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,200 or is there anything else that is more specifically in terms of 384 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,000 partaking resources or opportunities that are available 385 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,800 to the tribal communities, when the gujiyas gorgeous with 386 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,900 demanding for St, status in the state of Rajasthan. 387 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,600 State government of Rajasthan constituted a committee of the 388 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,200 commission under the shape of sonship of Justice, just 389 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,800 algebra. And the committee went to the 390 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,000 rural areas, talk to the gujiyas and found out that they do not 391 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,300 want a status. The people who are living in a 392 00:23:07,308 --> 00:23:10,200 rural area, they don't want estate as what they would 393 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,600 probably want, is the economic assistant. 394 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:16,200 So, the committee recommended that instead of granting a 395 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,600 status to the gooses then special economic packages shall 396 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,000 be given to the gooses. And similar steps can also be, 397 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,800 you know, taken in the case of money. 398 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,100 But if at all, it is a question of land resources, then the 399 00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:31,000 similar kind of, you know, measures can be taken. 400 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:34,300 Another option. Professor Jeanette says, is that 401 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:37,000 the government can work to reduce the political insecurity 402 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,600 in the cookie Community? About the furthering of the 403 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,400 political dominance of the mateys. 404 00:23:41,500 --> 00:23:45,000 He says, the state of Sikkim has a solution on this aspect, which 405 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,600 might work in Manipur as well. One of the or another reason for 406 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,500 opposing, the estate is to make the community by the tribal 407 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,300 communities of money. Put is that they are. 408 00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:59,800 Political resources will be redistributed or they will have 409 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,100 political dominance by moving into Hill areas and they can 410 00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:07,100 represent the representative assembly is located in the heel 411 00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:09,000 area. The lesson can be drawn from the 412 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,300 state of Sikkim where they'll impose as well as come on. 413 00:24:12,500 --> 00:24:16,700 They are also included in the history list of sickening but 414 00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:19,300 they have not been Even the political reservation then they 415 00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:21,400 don't do they have been demanding for that one? 416 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:26,300 So, if the sense of political domination is prevalent among 417 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:29,300 the tribal communities of money, but which is, which appears to 418 00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:32,700 be at this point of time, then, even if they qualify to be 419 00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:37,100 considered, then this political reservation can be applied. 420 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:39,600 That is that is that the political reservation may not be 421 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,500 extended to the Mythic community. 422 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:45,800 And I feel that these are some of the ways through which we can 423 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,700 find the longest. Lasting solution to this issue 424 00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:52,300 which is not prevalent at this point of time. 425 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,800 Today's episode was produced by Jay Raj, Singh soon. 426 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,800 I moratti and on Vijay Singh for a daily Spotlight. 427 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,300 On people ideas and stories that matter, subscribe to us. 428 00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:12,100 We are available on T. Y+ Spotify, Apple Google podcast 429 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,100 and all other platforms of your choice. 430 00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:19,100 For any new steps email us at DIY podcast at times, internet 431 00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:19,600 dot in.