From India's largest newsroom, I'm Arun George and this is the
Times of India podcast. Ji meye gali metho do tin salsa
ratti pariyo Lok meghar P/E nai bulati thi gali me baat Ji
tacheshho. Is talking to Ty Plus's Alka
Dukkar about recently having invited her neighbors over for a
meal and a chat. That might not sound like much,
but the campaign that Rinku Singh is part of is a unique
one. Alka spoke with multiple people
in Mumbai who are participating in the campaign that's called
Merigar Aketo Dekho, which aims to get people to meet people
from other communities. Shabnam Hashmi, who heads the
organization that came up with the campaign.
Explains the idea behind Merigar Aketo Dekho to Alka.
You see the kind of hatred that we have been seeing all around
us and we have been toying with various ideas.
One is that this is not a new idea.
We had experimented it earlier at a very small level, but the
basic idea was to somehow fight the prejudices and the
preconceived notions which exist.
And it was very clear that when people do not meet each other,
then it is very easy to spread hatred or spread stereotypes
about them. So we were thinking of how to
bring people together. The usual method is that you do
this interfaith prayers, which usually do not end up in
anything. The idea of entering a house and
looking at how people live, I mean, I found it very
interesting and I thought if we are able to send families to
meet each other. Then all those things that we
get on our WhatsApp, for example, all Muslims having four
wives and 25 children, that would vanish the moment somebody
enters a house. There was a lot of debate once I
discussed it with other people because they wanted a much
shorter name and not Meregar Aketo Dekho.
I thought that Aketo Dekho was very important because it says
that you know, you have preconceived.
Notions about me, who I am, but at least come and see.
In today's episode, Shabnam Hashmi is in conversation with
Alka Dupkar and me about the campaign that has seen people
across the country sign up for it.
She explains how the campaign works and why they aren't
targeting hardline elements of religions.
She also explains why food is at the heart of the campaign, then
hopes to sway the opinions of those participating in it.
Alka started by asking about how the campaign works.
Once guest family and post family are decided that we are
going to meet, what happens there?
Exactly? How many people are signed up
for this camp? We had formed committees in 28
states, speaking to people and friends and organizations over
phones and zoom and to some states.
I also travelled everywhere. It is not happening as we would
want this to happen. What happens is very simple once
two families meet. There is maybe initial few
moments when you feel awkward, but after that there is a
chemistry which kicks in and they could be talking about
anything. They could be discussing food or
culture or clothes or childrens education or domestic violence
or even politics. One doesnt know.
And the responses have been fantastic of people who have
gone and and met a family for the first time of another caste
or another religion or another region.
A lot of people have told us that it was very important
experience for them and it helped them overcome their
preconceived notions and a lot of anxieties also like a couple
had come both doctors, senior people.
The wife was very hesitant to come to Jamia because the way
Jamia has been projected all over, so she was not sure
whether something might happen, not with the family but with the
area itself. So after coming there, she was
very happy that it helped her overcome all those fears.
What is the target proof for this camp?
The target group it is, frankly. Everyone except the hardcore
because we have limited time. Nobody can change the way I
think because I am a hardcore secular person.
So if the RSS or the Jamaat Islami or any other Muslim
fundamentalist organization wants to change the way I think.
They won't succeed. Similarly, we had decided that
we are not going to waste our time on either the Qatar Muslims
or the hardcore Hindutva people. So our target group was
fanciters, ordinary people who are swayed away by the kind of
propaganda that comes on television and on WhatsApp
messages. But otherwise they have nothing
against each other. They have always lived together.
And after listening to this podcast, 1 needs to participate
in this campaign. Then what should they do?
We have a website for this campaign called
meregaraketodeko.com. People are directly registering
their and anybody who wants to participate can register their
name. Every 2-3 days we check the list
and then depending on which state they belong to, we connect
them to the state coordinators to help them find a family where
they can go and meet. Visiting areas where never ever
they've been like in Dalit dominated area or Muslim
dominated area. Why it is important?
For example, in Kach in Gujarat, there is this Rabari community.
They mainly work with cows. They are.
People who are also called Malhari's, they look after
livestock. Malhari's are both Hindus and
Muslims. They do business together but
they had never been to each other's homes.
So it's part of this campaign. The team in Gujarat worked with
them and convinced them to visit each other's home.
Similarly in Surendranagar in Gujarat.
Number of upper caste people went to Dalit families and had
tea together. In Delhi, we had there is a
place called Jaitpur Extension. So we had over 20 women from an
organization who came there and went to Muslim families for the
first time. Probably they had never been to
a Muslim area. They had never been to Muslim
households. Stories are coming from from
Maharashtra, from Karnataka, from Telangana, from all across
India. We have not touched Manipur
because of the present situation there.
But even in Northeast, in Assam, in Nagaland, in Mizoram, not
many but some interactions have happened.
The response of people who have been to each others homes or
organized it in other ways, it has been very good.
But I feel that it needs to expand a lot more to make any
substantial difference in the overall situation.
Because on 15th August we have approximately 50,000 people
participated. That might look a big number,
but if we compare it to India, it's a very small number.
So there is a need to expand and find the possibilities of
reaching out to more people, more groups.
Is this a? Political campaign.
Everything that you do is politics.
Everything that you do, there is a politics of keeping quiet and
let things happen. And there is a politics of
intervening to stop. When you talk about fighting
hatred, there is a politics to it because organizations and
political parties who are spreading hatred, they are doing
politics. So it's not political in the
sense of that you are doing it for a political party.
No, but for safeguarding the diversity, the cabinet harmony
of this country and safeguarding as a result of that the
constitution of this country. There is politics to it.
There's politics of peace and harmony and love.
We have done some very interesting campaigns earlier
also, but this has been one of the few campaigns which has
resonated so much with ordinary people because this has direct
connection with the ground. This is not abusing anyone or
calling names. This is just trying to bring
communities together. And once people come together,
then it's not only one meeting, then they become friends
forever. And sometimes those
relationships continue for years.
So it's a very innovative way I think of fighting hatred and
fighting prejudices, not only communal hatred but also biases
based on caste. We have also said that, you
know, visit a family which is not of your religion, caste or
sexual orientation, so even. The kind of discrimination that
the LGBTQI communities feel, if we are able to expand it further
then there would be a difference in peoples perception about each
other. So how long do you plan to
continue this campaign? You see we have right now said
till 30th of January, which is Gandhis martyrdom day, but we
hope that. If it lasts till 30th January,
then organically it will grow. People will see the use of such
a campaign. Nobody wants to live in tension
and with hatred, so I think it will grow on its own.
Shanti Iyer's husband is a temple priest and they
participated in the campaign. She explained to Alka why food
is a crucial ingredient for stronger ties.
Sabse Jada kahani sei pyaar padta ye sabko pyaar pyaar se
kana banao tabhi achala gegao kana bhi ghar kao kaambi kisi
ko. B de NAO PR.
See across society. And yet this campaign challenges
that by asking you to visit another person's home.
And most of the people that Alka spoke to talk of consuming food
at the other person's house and justice, finding out that it is
exactly what I eat or things like that.
Could you talk about why you're focused on this aspect?
One is that what is projected in the media and what is used to
polarize is really not the situation on the ground.
If you talk to the bucks, they will say all Hindus are
vegetarians, which is nonsense. You know large number of Hindus
are not Dalits are not, tribals are not, despite all the efforts
done by the Sangh Parivar. But as part of this, we are
telling every family that if you know, if you are a Muslim and a
Hindu family is coming to your house, just ask them in advance
if they're vegetarians, if you are offering dinner or lunch, if
you're offering tea, it's fine, then it doesn't matter.
Lot of Hindu families are going and they are relishing non
vegetarian food in in Jamia and in Shahid Bagh and and in many
other areas across India. So food is definitely a uniting
factor. However hard they try to use it
as something which polarizes, it doesn't because ultimately the
tastes are same and then people end up.
Sharing recipes and talking to each other as they say that if
you want to keep somebody happy, keep their stomach filled.
How optimistic are you about a campaign like this?
A big challenge in this is that we are mainly working through
civil society networks and not everyone is able to understand
the depth of this campaign. They are so used to organizing
programs in public spaces. The name is that mere gharaki to
Dekho, But programs are still happening in public places.
Or they are sending their own teams.
Like one organization sends six people, they go and visit the
homes. That is not the idea.
This requires a lot of hard work because you need to go to an
area, convince people to open their homes, then find families
to visit their homes. This requires a lot of
coordination. This doesn't require any money.
But this kind of hard work, not everyone is used to doing this.
It is taking a lot of time to explain it to people, how to do
it and why it is important. You also spoke of how with this
campaign you don't want to reach out to the hardline elements
because you don't believe you can change their minds.
But then how does one get through to the hardline
elements, given they are as influential as they are?
How do we change their minds about these things then?
See, that's a very long process Right now, if we look at the
challenge that is in front of us is to ensure that the kind of
attacks which are coming on democracy and democratic
structures and they're using the tool of polarizing people, there
is a large section of fence sitters.
Who gets swayed away by all kinds of things which are told
to them if we are able to reach out to them as first step?
I think that is very important because if there is a
possibility of change it is it will happen because of the fence
it does Realizing that you know they are being used to spread
this hatred and not think about what's happening in the country.
Hardliners are very difficult to change because it is
intoxication for. Maybe 20-30 forty years.
It's not easy to do that, so maybe later stage one can think
of how to do it, but I I really don't have any answers for that
right now. How easy is it to change a
person's mind on a subject like this where there is an inherent
bias? Your bias is fed almost daily.
How do you change that? You see, it's not very difficult
also frankly. We started another started in
2003 and we started with doing residential camps on democracy,
secularism and in every camp we had about 150 young people.
We were able to convince at least 80% of them over seven
days using lectures, getting very good academicians, showing
films. We used a lot of films you are
able to make. People do understand after the
second day you will see their faces change and their eyes
start sparkling because they have heard certain things for
the first time. But the problem is that our
reach is very limited because we can reach 100 people over seven
days. They can reach probably 70,000
people through their machinery. So it is not difficult to change
the. Problem is having resources,
both financial and physical resources to be able to do that.
You spoke about the youth just now and with this campaign the
focus is on the sort of family unit.
How does one reach them with this message?
We are trying to reach out to schools and colleges also.
In fact, that's also very interesting.
I was invited to a school to speak about this campaign and
the students were so lively and they asked all kinds of
questions. But later on the school got back
to me and they said if you had said students, they would have
come. But since you said families to
visit families, there's a lot of resistance.
There's a lot more resistance in the middle classes than.
In among the poor or the lower middle classes.
So again, not a very easy task, but we are trying whatever we
can. You see the other thing is that
this whole campaign is working on zero resources because Anhat
doesn't have any resources. Never had because in 2014 RFCRA
was cancelled even. I don't know if you have seen
our campaign song. That campaign song is
professionally recorded, professionally sung.
But it has been done all pro bono mere khar aketo dekho
mohabbat he mohabbat hai, Aman hai tusti.
So everything is being done pro bono.
And there are a lot of things. If one had money, you could push
it on social media here. It'll reach out to a lot more
people than it is reaching out right now.
We recently had a guest on the show who said that something
like communal hate may not stop economic growth or progress, but
what it will do is make it very lopsided.
How do you see it playing out? What for you is the worst case
scenario? It.
Will very deeply affect the economic growth.
If somebody thinks that it won't, it's a mistake.
Just 2-3 days of unrest in new in Haryana, all the Gurgaon had
come to a stop. So if this kind of constant
communal clashes are happening or communal hatred is spreading,
it is not possible for any economic growth.
People do not invest, businesses do not grow, countries do not
grow. If there is unrest only in
peaceful conditions, when there is everything calm and people
are close to each other, only then economy will grow.
Today's episode was produced by Jayaraj Singh and Anuja Singh.
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