1 00:00:01,300 --> 00:00:05,100 From India's largest Newsroom. I'm are enjoyed, and this is the 2 00:00:05,100 --> 00:00:21,000 times of India podcast. They are into election mode for 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:26,400 2024 and unfortunately, they wrongly think that they can win 4 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,800 election only by polarization, which is not true. 5 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,500 They failed in Canada and I believe as an instrument of 6 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:38,400 Indian context I have known virtually every parameter for 7 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,200 last 50 years. I have been very actively 8 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,100 involved both as a journalist. As I student of Indian politics 9 00:00:43,100 --> 00:00:46,600 and has a condition. That these things don't work 10 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,000 Beyond a point. So, whatever, they could gain 11 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,300 from this kind of polarization, they have already came. 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,200 Now, if they try to push it too far, it will be 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,500 counterproductive and disprove to be proving to be 14 00:00:56,500 --> 00:01:00,100 counterproductive. That's Shahid. 15 00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:03,800 Siddiqui, who is Don the hats of journalist editor and a rajasa 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,700 by a different points close to a year ago, Shahid, Siddiqui and a 17 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:11,300 group of other eminent Muslim personalities met with RSS Chief 18 00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:14,000 Mohan bhagwat. At the time there was hope that 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,500 the meeting was the star. For larger dialogue to I know 20 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:20,300 Tony issues, affecting both communities a year later signs. 21 00:01:20,300 --> 00:01:22,600 Indicate admits he never expected things to change this 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,600 quickly, but remains hopeful of a continuing dialogue, with the 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,000 RSS, which is the ideological Fountainhead of the BJP. 24 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:32,300 In today's episode, her in Derbyshire is in conversation 25 00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:35,500 with sides in the key about the meeting with the RSS Chief and 26 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:38,400 what he believes has been achieved since then, they 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,400 discussed the worries of the Muslim Community. 28 00:01:40,700 --> 00:01:43,400 And why a request for a similar meeting with the Prime Minister 29 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,800 remains unanswered and despite his worries about the 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,900 proliferation of inter-religious heat shield cdk explains why he 31 00:01:50,900 --> 00:01:52,500 still remains hopeful about India. 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,100 Sup Cassatt sucker vikas? That is a promise that the BJP 33 00:01:58,100 --> 00:02:03,300 came on in 2014. How true has the government 34 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:08,199 being to that promise? The whole country knows it. 35 00:02:08,300 --> 00:02:11,800 The government knows it, the Prime Minister knows it, the BJP 36 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,500 knows. It, everybody knows that they 37 00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:18,900 have, this is only a slogan, like the Joomla has of the past. 38 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:24,100 This is a mere Joomla. Something added to this in 2019, 39 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:27,900 Supply, which was so neither of the ishwara, is there not 40 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:32,700 because they're so soft coming here, I can't say about 41 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:34,500 everybody. There are people there are 42 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:38,400 forces in Kuwait, Got who have developed, but not everyone, 43 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:44,500 especially not the minority, especially the Muslims, you 44 00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:47,100 know. It is almost a year, 10 months, 45 00:02:47,100 --> 00:02:49,100 for sure. Since you met the RSS, Chief 46 00:02:49,100 --> 00:02:53,500 Mohan bhagwat, essentially to address the insecurities of the 47 00:02:53,500 --> 00:02:58,200 Muslim Community. But the hate speech is what is 48 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,100 this out Peach achieved? You would say so far, how do you 49 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:04,100 look back on the ten months of dialogue? 50 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:07,800 We went with a boy. Very positive mindset because we 51 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:12,900 believe that this country has to dial up with everybody coming 52 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:18,400 together by Building Bridges and not by creating differences. 53 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,600 We should focus on. What is common, what we share 54 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,500 with each other? Instead of you know focusing on 55 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:26,400 where we are different from each other. 56 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:30,900 And therefore, we thought that our SS is one of the most 57 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:35,500 powerful and most in strong organization in the country. 58 00:03:35,900 --> 00:03:40,100 Especially among a large section of Hindus and therefore we 59 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:43,000 should approach them. We approach some challenging 60 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,800 wrote a letter to him and he was kind enough to give us an 61 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,900 appointment that we've done sup as white policies of Journalism 62 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:53,900 euthanasia myself, Mississippi Shivani, we met him. 63 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,600 And in a very cordial environment, we met openly, 64 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,500 there's nothing secret about it. We didn't want to keep it secret 65 00:04:02,500 --> 00:04:06,700 at all, but we also didn't go to the media because Going to Media 66 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,800 only spoils things, instead of taking them forward. 67 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:13,800 He heads to apprehensions, he said that the Muslims Talk of 68 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:17,800 the heart to subtract teachers, ask a favor Muslims, you know, 69 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,600 believe in eating bees. That should not happen and we 70 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,300 assured him that so far, as we are concerned, we are none of 71 00:04:25,308 --> 00:04:28,800 these but he said that usually speak to Muslim malama also 72 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,500 because you people don't have much of it standing and we agree 73 00:04:31,500 --> 00:04:33,000 with that. We don't have any standing in 74 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,200 the community. We don't represent the 75 00:04:34,207 --> 00:04:36,400 community, we only represent. That ourselves. 76 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,300 So we came back and we talked to the Muslim Allah, madad amok 77 00:04:41,300 --> 00:04:44,500 islami, the limit or my in both the girls are shared Matheny and 78 00:04:44,500 --> 00:04:49,900 Maulana bamboo the motherly group to Maulana, Frankie, Valli 79 00:04:50,100 --> 00:04:53,900 Lucknow to not, go to Lamar the chief of Muslim personal law 80 00:04:53,900 --> 00:04:57,200 board, who is no more spoke to all of them. 81 00:04:57,300 --> 00:05:00,400 And they were, we were all on the same page that in India. 82 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,300 Indian Muslims have never believed in the heart. 83 00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:06,200 What about the Pakistan said, whatever. 84 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:09,500 The let's create a band of the said, how are they have tried? 85 00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:12,400 We must appreciate. And the nation must appreciate, 86 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,600 again Muslim that. They refused to be influenced by 87 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:22,400 these Jihadi groups and infected a lot of media and lot of people 88 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:28,000 talk of Love Jihad, Randy are we his Jaws are being thrown at us 89 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,300 but if we refuse to accept that because we have never believed 90 00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:33,500 in TR and we don't believe in Jihad. 91 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:36,500 And the country must understand that Society must understand the 92 00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:39,600 media must understand that Indian Muslims have stood up 93 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,900 against any kind of nonsensical, violent yard. 94 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,000 Only the heart we believe in is pleasing ourselves and going for 95 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:51,600 better education and creating a nation, which is Nation. 96 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,800 We are, everybody has equal rights, where everybody has 97 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,500 equal, which draws equal because and equal purity. 98 00:06:00,100 --> 00:06:03,500 So what were you say? You achieved in 10 months we 99 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,300 knew that you will not be achieving much because these 100 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:10,500 differences have developed in centuries and especially in 101 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:14,000 recent times, it is more political than social. 102 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,900 I don't find these differences on the ground as much as I find 103 00:06:17,900 --> 00:06:20,200 it in the politics and in the media day and night. 104 00:06:20,700 --> 00:06:24,900 So the only thing we have achieved is that we are talking 105 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:29,800 and I really believe that we must always keep our windows. 106 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,300 Open. Even if the doors are closed, 107 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,300 windows should never close between people who have 108 00:06:35,300 --> 00:06:38,900 differences and different viewpoints, we have been able to 109 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:43,200 give to give the message to the nation and to the RSS and to the 110 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:48,300 government that Muslim groups are all together on this, we 111 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:51,200 don't believe in Bihar. We don't believe in calling 112 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:56,800 Hindus as cafes, PR for universal law to ban cows 113 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,500 throttle. We are not for cow slaughter at 114 00:06:59,500 --> 00:07:01,200 all. All we are totally opposed to 115 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,300 that. So don't blame us if something 116 00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:06,400 happens, if some individuals commit, something here and beer 117 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,600 tune bleed the whole community. And we are also against you know 118 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,400 craving the community for any crime or anything committed by 119 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,800 an individual. The problem is that when in when 120 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,800 an individual who happens to be Muslims, does something the 121 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,300 whole Community is made to stand in the talk. 122 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,300 But when a any other committee person, commits a crime, its 123 00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:28,400 individual crime and Sancho I love you. 124 00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:32,100 Agreed with us. He said that he would also talk 125 00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:35,700 to his people. He said that, at least you 126 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:39,700 should condemn some of these people who are spreading hate 127 00:07:39,700 --> 00:07:43,000 politics and were crying trying to divide society and I must 128 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,000 appreciate that. Samsung Galaxy has from time to 129 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,700 time spoken against it. And even he found difficulty in 130 00:07:50,700 --> 00:07:55,400 his own party and some of the more so-called liberal and 131 00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:00,500 lightened hugs and supporters were very Critical of him 132 00:08:00,500 --> 00:08:03,500 because they believed in eliminating Islam from the whole 133 00:08:03,500 --> 00:08:06,300 world, which is absolutely ridiculous. 134 00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:11,100 But some of them who are, who are, I find a highly so-called 135 00:08:11,100 --> 00:08:14,500 educated and middle class people in March. 136 00:08:14,500 --> 00:08:17,700 In fact, you all are written the letter to the RSS, Chief Mohan, 137 00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:22,600 bhagwat, requesting him to speak more and to get the union and 138 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,300 state governments to file Affairs against people who were 139 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:30,600 openly speaking in very high. Three terms. 140 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:33,900 Yes. Was there any impact impact? 141 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:37,299 After that letter, there has been some movement. 142 00:08:38,299 --> 00:08:43,100 The Harvard he has spoken from time to time. 143 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,700 I don't know how much impact it has on that ground. 144 00:08:48,100 --> 00:08:51,000 What they have told us is that look, we can't influence the 145 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,600 government. We are a non-governmental 146 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,700 organization. We don't speak like that, but if 147 00:08:55,700 --> 00:08:59,000 the terms are other they speak we can't do much about it. 148 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,500 So we request Um, at least to condemn it, at least to question 149 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:05,600 them. And now, what is happening in 150 00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:09,500 uttarakhand is extremely disturbing. 151 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,700 It's a very small incident. I mean, trackin, Muslims are 152 00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:18,200 hardly 1 and a 1 or 2 percent. Muslims are not a threat anyway 153 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,300 in that state at all, but to turn it into a huge issue. 154 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:27,500 I think shows the weakness of the present regimes, they seem 155 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:31,500 to be relying totally on Creating polarization, which 156 00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:35,800 they did in. And filled it. 157 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,400 Now the same thing is being done in madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan 158 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,100 in. I don't know why it is being 159 00:09:42,100 --> 00:09:47,800 done in who crackling, but I hope that awkwardly and Son. 160 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,400 Our friends in son really speak out against that and will 161 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,200 understand that this is not in the interest of the country. 162 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,800 There's some days but think about Kathy a kind of our 163 00:09:56,808 --> 00:09:59,800 healthy bod Corp, a that happened brother that requires 164 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,600 you know, confidence in each other unless you Have 165 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,700 confidence, you can't have a comparison, you know, you just 166 00:10:05,700 --> 00:10:09,400 said that one bag were told you that they can't influence the 167 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,900 government. I mean, do you really believe a 168 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:14,300 statement like that? I mean they are the ideological 169 00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:21,100 Fountainhead of the bgp and why I have to leave him but I know 170 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:27,100 that they have a great influence on everybody. 171 00:10:27,500 --> 00:10:30,700 Whether it is the government or if the bureaucracy or if the 172 00:10:30,700 --> 00:10:35,400 police because R is Is an ideological group and that's why 173 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,800 we have ruined our assessment. We could have a cold the 174 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,300 government people. So, tell us. 175 00:10:39,300 --> 00:10:40,700 Why did you approach the government further? 176 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,900 We see bombings come and go. RSS is their RSS will remain. 177 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:49,300 There is either, thinking is a idea when ideas change the 178 00:10:49,300 --> 00:10:55,300 society changes, therefore, we are trying to interact with this 179 00:10:55,300 --> 00:11:00,500 ideology and with this idea, by creating a meeting ground, and 180 00:11:00,500 --> 00:11:04,900 therefore, I don't think there is Nothing we do wrong in that 181 00:11:04,900 --> 00:11:07,300 and he will be able to understand it. 182 00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:09,400 Visually entities teks takes time. 183 00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:14,000 We never expected anything to achieve anything if next year 184 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,600 too, but niches are not made in just few years. 185 00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:22,900 We are not here for full picture for the next election in 2024, 186 00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:26,400 we are here for next three, four, five decades. 187 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,700 Whether we live or not be we have to create an environment 188 00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:34,500 with new field in decades India. Able to come together and these 189 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:38,600 differences become irrelevant and we are able to create a 190 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,900 nation of Indians. Not a nation of Hindus and 191 00:11:41,900 --> 00:11:43,400 Muslims and Sikhs and Christians. 192 00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:48,300 So when Juan Vazquez said, let's not look for a shivling. 193 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:52,100 Under every mosque, you are must have felt quite encouraged, 194 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:52,700 right? Yes. 195 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,400 Yes. Hey, when you are met his 196 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,300 representatives in a second meeting at mr. 197 00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:04,400 Jang's house, right? They did try and test the waters 198 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,300 by bringing up Kashi and mozzarella. 199 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:13,200 Yes, but they were not insistent on it, they just mentioned it, 200 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:19,500 they didn't bring up the issue. It was briefly mentioned, but it 201 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:21,700 was not the main issue of discussion. 202 00:12:21,900 --> 00:12:24,500 And all those who are present, there was a demand islami 203 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:28,000 representative. There was a relative of Maulana 204 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,900 Sheikh, Mohammed Murray and others. 205 00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:34,000 They were quite happy and quite Guide the discussion, we had 206 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,100 with the RSS leaders at the residence of mr. 207 00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:41,400 Najeeb Jung, they mentioned that they seek, you may come up, 208 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:45,200 which may create problems, we said that, let the courts 209 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,000 decide, and that's it. We didn't go into any details 210 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,300 within discuss. They didn't say you have to give 211 00:12:50,300 --> 00:12:53,700 or nothing of the sort, you know, you got religious Scholars 212 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:56,800 on board. Like, you were telling us to be 213 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,000 a part of this dialogue. They don't ask you questions. 214 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,800 Now, keep wherever you reached. No, no. 215 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,300 They they they also understand they are very reasonable people. 216 00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:11,000 The impression which has been created by media is totally 217 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,700 false. I have known the Llama all my 218 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:17,900 life. These Kalama do understand but 219 00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:22,900 they expect a transparency in our discussions with the Sun or 220 00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:25,400 with any other group and that's what we hope. 221 00:13:25,500 --> 00:13:29,500 Because someone is a bit unhappy, especially to people 222 00:13:29,500 --> 00:13:34,400 like me who speak out because Cuz I believe that any 223 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,000 understanding with any adversary, it is important that 224 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,600 we take the people along with us. 225 00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:44,500 If you are not able to take the people along with us, we are of 226 00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:47,500 no use to anyone. And therefore, we must take the 227 00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:51,000 confidence of the people and the confidence of the people comes 228 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,400 by being transparent. So I like to speak out openly 229 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:59,500 what we discussed with RSS, what we are discussing with RSS and 230 00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:03,500 in the future what I believe. And I I have told my friends in 231 00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:07,300 that group that we must always be very transparent and whatever 232 00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:10,300 discussion we have we must come out and tell the people. 233 00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:12,100 Why should we hide? Because they are not doing 234 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:15,600 something - we are not doing something against the community 235 00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:18,200 against the country or against the society. 236 00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:22,800 So we should be open about it and not hide their argument is 237 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,800 also there is also valid they say that if you come out in the 238 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,300 very beginning that the media tries to spoil the issues by 239 00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:34,400 raising irrelevant questions, A element debates but we have to 240 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,800 live with it. Every government, every people 241 00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:40,600 have to live with a PDF which ask questions. 242 00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:43,700 Unfortunately, the media doesn't ask questions to the government. 243 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:47,800 It only ask question to People Like Us, who are trying to do 244 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,200 something positive, but we have to learn to live with the media 245 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,800 as well. You said that the problem 246 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,900 essentially lies in the political domain. 247 00:14:57,300 --> 00:15:00,500 Yes, so maybe you should be meeting prime minister Narendra 248 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,900 Modi, If he meets us but we are all for it. 249 00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:07,700 We have written a letter to him about two months back in April, 250 00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:09,200 we wrote to him. I think it's more than that. 251 00:15:09,300 --> 00:15:12,100 It's three months out and we have not received any 252 00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:15,600 acknowledgement, he's very busy. He was busy in the elections. 253 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,100 In Karnataka. Now he will be going is going to 254 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,400 America, then he'll be busy in the elections in madhya Pradesh, 255 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,900 Rajasthan, and other places, but we we are ready to meet anyone. 256 00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:31,100 Anybody for that matter of any political party of any religious 257 00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:33,000 leader. And we are trying to meet other 258 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,700 religious leaders also, because in the Hindu Society, there are 259 00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:38,900 various people who represent Hindu Society. 260 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:43,100 Shravan Dharma is not represented by any one group. 261 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,300 So, we want to build Bridges, and we also want to build 262 00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:49,900 Bridges between within the community and with the, with the 263 00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:55,300 intellectual, with the middle class because In the last few 264 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:58,000 decades. Unfortunately, there have been 265 00:15:58,300 --> 00:16:01,800 more differences. Have been sharpened for no 266 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,100 reason at all. While what we expect the new 267 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:07,000 generation Express the 21st century. 268 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,800 India expects, these individuals to go into the background and we 269 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,000 must all be working for a better. 270 00:16:14,700 --> 00:16:18,300 India, of course, Paris India, It's interesting. 271 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:21,100 It's been over two months since you wrote to the Prime Minister. 272 00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:23,500 What does his silence tell you, how would you interpret the 273 00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:25,300 silence? Not even an acknowledgement. 274 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,500 Well, I can't speak on his behalf. 275 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:31,600 I understand he's a very busy person and we are very 276 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:34,800 unimportant. Is small people. 277 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,100 So he naturally he won't find time for us. 278 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,000 But we expected at least acknowledgement which has not 279 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,000 come. But anyway, we are waiting for 280 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,000 him and we will be writing to again. 281 00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:50,600 Requesting him for an appointment because we believe 282 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:56,200 that we must come together to build India and not create 283 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,200 problems for. We are not there to confront the 284 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,700 government. We are not there to confront 285 00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:04,700 anybody, either the Hindu or even the Muslim leaders or any 286 00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:08,200 other group. We are here to see that how can 287 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,800 we, you know, bring people together? 288 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,599 So let me ask you switch, sides. Are you expecting too much from 289 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,500 a party that has made? Add polarization, an election 290 00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:23,300 strategy. We always expect too much from 291 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:26,900 our rulers, whether it was Congress, whether it was one 292 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:29,900 more thing or attendee or anybody. 293 00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:33,600 We Indians are very hopeful people, we always expect too 294 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,600 much. So we are expecting too much 295 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,500 from him. Also now, and we have this 296 00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:43,100 Indian way of thinking that it's Longo, Ethan of them will die. 297 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:47,100 So that is whatever. Hope is that we are asking for. 298 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,600 Thing. But just, you know, rule of law, 299 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:55,900 a treatment as a citizen, equal cities are of the contain. 300 00:17:55,900 --> 00:18:00,500 That's what we are asking, not much, so even if we get a 301 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,600 semblance of this, we will be happy. 302 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,400 But there is so much to despair about Shaheen's whether it is 303 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:13,400 because - you know, convicts being garlanded fitted. 304 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,200 Now, orange tape seems to be becoming an issue in 305 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,600 Maharashtra. I mean, track on people are 306 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,800 waking up to eviction, notices it, I mean, even a BJP 307 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,000 functionality has to has had to pack his bags and live with 308 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,700 wrecked. It is all there, but I am a 309 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,000 pretty old hand and I have seen terrible times. 310 00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:36,600 I've been the generosity of someone's body party for long. 311 00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:41,300 There are certainly ODSP and I have, you know, raise issues 312 00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:43,400 within the party. And I have seen that these 313 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,500 parties, never took any concrete step. 314 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,300 To fight these communal forces, so it's not something new for 315 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:53,300 me. Unfortunately, it's unfortunate, 316 00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:56,200 but that's not something new. It has been happening for the 317 00:18:56,208 --> 00:18:59,900 last 70 years, and we have learned to live with it and we 318 00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:03,600 must learn to live with. It is only now that the media is 319 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,700 coming out with, it's only the pretty glass sitting in there, 320 00:19:07,300 --> 00:19:11,400 you know, safe homes, who are realizing that, these things are 321 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,300 happening. So what can I say about, mr. 322 00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:16,800 Modi people telling me you have to be precise. 323 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,200 Of that side either. You have to be again, smooth, 324 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,800 your form of the unfortunately, I can't be. 325 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,600 I have seen too much of it, and I can see that this is 326 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,100 happening. And for that, we have to change 327 00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:29,800 the society. Just merely changing government 328 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,100 is not going to help, and we have done it in the past. 329 00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:35,200 We have changed or made in the past, but not much has happened. 330 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,100 Now, we have to change the mindset of the people and 331 00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:41,300 organizations like RSS or religious leaders. 332 00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:48,600 Like, you know, the remote from art movement or the the guru 333 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,100 like SRI SRI and others who have some influence. 334 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,300 I'm not for or against anybody but they have to come out and we 335 00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,700 are on our hand. We are working with our Obama 336 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,100 with Obama who are hard very hard liner. 337 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,400 We are trying to bring them on the same page in a way that they 338 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,700 become more open, more liberal more transparent and More For 339 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:13,000 Change. Would you say however that the 340 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,800 level of insecurity and the sense of marginalization, Has 341 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,100 increased. He has it has, it has. 342 00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:23,100 Everybody knows that return in the past, they were rods. 343 00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:25,900 Use rights. The thousands were killed, but 344 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:29,800 now it is. Every movement you are feeling 345 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,800 insecure. Children are feeling insecure 346 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,100 because in schools, you are being targeted. 347 00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:40,400 And the main reason is the media 24/7, whether you are sitting at 348 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,000 the airport or you are sitting in a hotel lobby, you are 349 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,800 watching Muslims being demonized. 350 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,100 This so-called love Jihad so-called Randy, hostel called 351 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,400 all sorts of gas, but fortunately by and large Indian 352 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,700 Muslims. Except for few individuals have 353 00:20:57,700 --> 00:20:59,600 never indulged in any kind of the heart. 354 00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:03,200 So don't push him into this Jihad more but talking about her 355 00:21:03,208 --> 00:21:06,200 24/7. If you talk of the heart 24/7, 356 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,700 then something terrible may happen, which we all don't want. 357 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,800 And and this is happening because they know it that Indian 358 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,500 Muslims are for peace. In their Muslims are not 40 odd. 359 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:21,200 That's why they are talking 24/7 about Gabi are constantly 360 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,700 because they know it that these people are not violent. 361 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:27,500 And we are telling Indian Muslims that yes, we have to 362 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:29,300 live in this country. We have to love this country. 363 00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:32,000 We have to Trend up with this country unit of this country. 364 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,300 And we are opposed any group who stands up for Jihad. 365 00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:39,400 So, tell me Shy, while you wait for a reply from the prime 366 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:42,400 minister, is there the possibility? 367 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,100 Off another meeting with the more language or his 368 00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:48,500 Representatives. Yes. 369 00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:49,300 Yes. Definitely. 370 00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:53,400 We would like to continue meeting and we we are we were 371 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,300 happy with the baby talks went along and we appreciate their 372 00:21:57,300 --> 00:22:00,600 problems. Also, you know, RSS buggy and 373 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,900 other leaders. Whether it is the rich Kumar or 374 00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:08,800 it is Ram Lal ji occasion to apology or someone he who have 375 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,500 to go back to their own people and their organization. 376 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:14,700 Is a hundred year old organization. 377 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:19,200 It has its own and host its own culture, its own priorities, and 378 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,100 therefore it's not easy for them. 379 00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:24,000 Also, we understand their problem, they understand our 380 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,500 problem. You must have seen that those 381 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,700 small time. Always, we used to come on 382 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,800 channels, there are less and less of them. 383 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:37,300 They are being offered double, double the money, then that was 384 00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:39,200 done in the past by these channels to come. 385 00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:42,100 But only few are going because we are stopping them. 386 00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:44,400 We have created. Woman in the community where 387 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,800 these people are back wanted. All these so-called people with 388 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,500 beard who are not. Mulvey's put up there in the 389 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,500 discussion to talk - and talk dirty. 390 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,900 They are by courted by the community. 391 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,300 So changes are coming. I am believe, I believe that 392 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,900 after 2020 for election whosoever Wills, things will 393 00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:07,200 improve because for has been has gone up to a point. 394 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,700 I believe RSS understand that. This polarization can work up to 395 00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:13,800 a point not Beyond and if you Just rely on that. 396 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,400 Then it will be counterproductive. 397 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,200 It is being proving to be counterproductive and the world 398 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,900 is watching, given the toxicity, given the hate. 399 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,700 I mean, the increased sense of insecurity, which we discussed 400 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:29,100 earlier. How has your life been impacted 401 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:32,300 personally? My life has not been impacted 402 00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:36,400 much show me. I I, but I feel sorry. 403 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,200 I feel anguished, I feel unhappy. 404 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,900 I as am I I stopped watching Be jealous.i'm, stopped appearing. 405 00:23:45,100 --> 00:23:48,000 I have been asked to contest the coming groups of election. 406 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,900 I'm not interested because I don't feel, I don't want to get 407 00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:55,200 votes in the name of community or a group, and they say that, 408 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,100 unless you polarize your community, you will not be able 409 00:23:58,100 --> 00:24:00,000 to win. I and I prefer to lose. 410 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,900 So today, I am very sad but I still am hopeful. 411 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,800 You can't undo the evolution of a society which has taken eight 412 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:10,500 hundred years or a thousand years. 413 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,100 Whether it's chicken sandwich, As the world, which has 414 00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:17,600 influenced Islam and Islam, which is influenced every other 415 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,600 religion. And it has given birth, to all 416 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,600 sorts of movements within our society. 417 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,400 Whether it's Arya samaj movement of the barometer, my movement 418 00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:29,200 they have three are a result of the influence of Islamic 419 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,700 thought, as well. Our languages have been filled. 420 00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:34,800 Our music has been filled, you can't separate the two. 421 00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:38,200 It's like own In the Flesh. If you try to do that, you will 422 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,600 lose everything to be, must understand. 423 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:47,200 And I hope that after Maybe after damaging our society, too 424 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,700 much. We will understand that that 425 00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:51,000 will be unfortunate but we will understand. 426 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,700 I have faith in this country. Our Fate in the society are 427 00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:56,400 creating the majority of Hindus, Muslims Christians. 428 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,800 I, I don't lose faith and I have also some faith in media because 429 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,600 there are still people in media who are ready to stake out their 430 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,600 neck. In spite of the all the threats 431 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:19,600 they are facing Today's episode was produced by Jay Raj, Singh 432 00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:22,100 soon. I moratti and on Vijay Singh for 433 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:24,800 a daily Spotlight. On people ideas and stories that 434 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,600 matter subscribe to us, we're available on T. 435 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:32,700 Y+ Spotify, Apple Google podcast and all other platforms of your 436 00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:37,200 choice for in the new steps. Email us at DIY podcast at 437 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,700 times, internet dot in.