1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,160 Hello and welcome to the Planner Pals Podcast, a podcast hosted 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:05,960 by two true planner pals. My name is Mark and I go by Mark 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,280 Your pages. And I'm Jess or Jessie Curran, 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,520 and in this episode, we're looking at messy versus curated 5 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,760 planning, considering what the pros and cons of each of these 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,320 are, why neither of them is right or wrong. 7 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,240 And we really wanna know where you guys fall on the messy 8 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:22,240 curated spectrum. We're definitely gonna be 9 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:25,240 sharing where we fall. But Mark, when it comes to this 10 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:28,080 topic, why is it actually important to talk about? 11 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,560 I think it's important because we're unveiling the reality of 12 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,400 planning, you know, what you see online, which typically is going 13 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,640 to be the best of the best versus maybe what your planner 14 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,280 may look like. It's on a spectrum. 15 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:45,520 Not everyone actually normally plans like that, but some people 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,880 actually do. Like Jess and I fall on very 17 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,640 opposite sides of the spectrum when we're talking about this 18 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:53,640 topic is like, what do you mean? Of course my planner is messy. 19 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:58,040 She's like, no, it needs to be perfection, but I think just 20 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,400 really going through and normalizing and it's just key as 21 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,240 we're talking about it because like we said, what you see 22 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,760 online maybe looks a little bit different than what yours looks 23 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,080 like, and that's totally OK. The biggest part, as we all 24 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:10,760 know, is that your planner is for you. 25 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,080 So it's really important to make sure that it's working for you. 26 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,920 But also not saying that I can't be a little bit of both or 27 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,520 meeting kind of in the middle, especially if you're a 28 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,720 Perspicity biscuit about certain things like headers or the way 29 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,120 they look or the way your boxes look and kind of falling inside 30 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,360 of there. Yeah, and we definitely want to 31 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,200 say from the get go, whether you're doing messy planning or 32 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,600 curated planning does not mean that your planner isn't 33 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,200 functional, right. We're not saying that either is 34 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,280 going to be like better in terms of your productivity or in terms 35 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,880 of getting things done or fulfilling really the purpose 36 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,840 that you give for your planner. It's more so just thinking about 37 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,080 the overall kind of final appearance of your planner, I 38 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:49,840 suppose. And whether you learn more to 39 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,840 the messy side, more to the curated side or very much smack 40 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,360 bang in between. It can also differ from planet 41 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,840 to planner, which I think is an important something to consider. 42 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,240 Like some in your lineup might be quite curated, quite kind of, 43 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,280 you know, aesthetic leaning, whereas other ones might be like 44 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,280 complete scribbly messes and such. 45 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,639 And I think it's kind of also nice to be able to have separate 46 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,600 spaces for separate things because in a way they also 47 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,880 fulfill different needs for you. Or at least that's what I find 48 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,040 my planners do. Oh, completely. 49 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:19,320 I mean, some of those planners are like, OK, I'm writing very 50 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,400 nicely inside of this one. Like it's very intentional 51 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,720 because it has that kind of space, like the one I use for 52 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,200 all of my ink swatches. I'm very precise about how I'm 53 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,800 writing. I take my time, I go very slow 54 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:34,480 because I want it to look somewhat normalized, even though 55 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,760 it's different colors. Whereas my day-to-day completely 56 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:39,880 different story. But just why don't we, maybe 57 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,120 we'll do something first is like really kind of define what we 58 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,960 mean by messy versus something that's a little bit more 59 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,560 curated. Because I think that could be a 60 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,120 little confusing, right, depending on how you're thinking 61 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,560 about. So why don't we go into how you 62 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,680 define those for us because you're you're very good at 63 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,680 defining things versus me. I'll ramble on for hours about 64 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,240 what I think it is and then double check myself on if that's 65 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,560 really how I feel. And repeat ourselves like 3 to 6 66 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,680 times in between there. But in terms of messy planning, 67 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,200 we're thinking like fast, low friction planning. 68 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,640 It's really get in, write your stuff down and get out with not 69 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:14,240 necessarily a lot of concern as to how it looks. 70 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,320 We're thinking kind of scribbling notes. 71 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:19,680 It could be crossing things out. Really just the idea of taking 72 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,480 your brain and putting it onto paper without too much 73 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,800 consideration of the kind of, you know, structure of the 74 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,840 layout or the sizing, spacing, those kind of things which are 75 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,800 more so considerations that might come in with curated 76 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,040 planning. So for curated planning, we're 77 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,600 thinking it's very intentional about where information is 78 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,560 stored, what information possibly is stored. 79 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,720 It's visually placed in a way that is appealing after the 80 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,040 fact. Typically it's a lot neater, 81 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,320 doesn't necessarily have to have perfect handwriting or anything 82 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,920 like that, but the placement of pieces within the planner has 83 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,520 been done with a bit more intention I suppose then our 84 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,920 messy planning kind of compatriots. 85 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,920 And I think when we define those, those even sound like 86 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,000 very opposite sides of a spectrum. 87 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,640 It's like you're either one or the other. 88 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,400 But I think the reality really falls that we probably fall 89 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,000 somewhere in between there. And like you said, it might be 90 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,000 depending on the type of journal that you're using. 91 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,800 I know for me, it's very much about the time that I have to 92 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,880 accomplish what I'm doing. So if I'm trying to write things 93 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,079 down quickly because I'm in a meeting and I'm taking a 94 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:24,440 handwritten notes, that's going to look a lot messier perhaps 95 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:26,920 than a page that I'm setting up very intentionally. 96 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,240 Like we talked about the perfect header, everything spaced out 97 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,680 appropriately and trying to figure that out. 98 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,000 So I think talking next about maybe where we fall on that 99 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:36,640 spectrum might be a good kind of space. 100 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,080 And we're going to start with you, Jess. 101 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,560 I'll give you 3 guesses as to where I fall. 102 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,880 Yeah, I definitely consider myself to be more in the curated 103 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,760 kind of space when it comes to my everyday journal, everyday 104 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,280 planner in particular. I enjoy having it look nice. 105 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,400 So I'm making sure to kind of pre plan what my layout 106 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,680 structures are going to be before I get in and actually 107 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,800 draw things in. I want to make sure that the 108 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,720 boxes are appropriately sized so that everything fits nicely. 109 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,480 Which does often tend to requiring a lot of pre planning 110 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,040 before you plan the plans, which feels just like maybe a little 111 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,400 bit of overkill. But it means that then the end 112 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,200 product is something that is very nicely organized, easily 113 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,280 structured. I can find everything I'm 114 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,640 looking for and it looks good, which makes my brain happy 115 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:25,560 because one of the things that I find for curated planning is 116 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,960 that the curation part is just part of the joy of it. 117 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,160 It's part of the enjoyability of the process, at least for me. 118 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,800 Now we're going to get into a conversation about when things 119 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,960 maybe go a little too far. That's not right now. 120 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,160 That's a future topic point. But there are other spaces that 121 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,440 I do messy planning, or at least what I would consider to be 122 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,200 messy planning. I know that to the outside eye, 123 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,360 it still probably looks fairly curated. 124 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:49,880 It still probably looks fairly neat. 125 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,560 But for me, anytime I feel like I'm using my natural 126 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,920 handwriting, which I have very slowly kind of gravitated 127 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,120 towards in my everyday planners and such, because I felt like my 128 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,200 natural handwriting was not consistent enough, quote, quote 129 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,200 wasn't consistent enough to put in my planner or you know, all 130 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,280 the letter forms didn't have the same sizing and spacing and all 131 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:12,840 of that kind of thing. It would add to that feeling of 132 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:16,080 messiness. So I was kind of tending towards 133 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,480 doing all caps writing because all caps I could find that it 134 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,080 would be very consistent looking. 135 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,400 Everything looked equally spaced. 136 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,560 And then there was that kind of cheerleader effect with all of 137 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,120 the letters. So the curated part there, yeah, 138 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,120 was kind of shining through. Nowadays, though, I use my 139 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,440 regular handwriting in all of my journals except my five year 140 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:34,720 journal. And that's because it's a five 141 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,520 year journal and I still want it to be matchy, matchy. 142 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,160 And I've done three years so far of all caps. 143 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,360 So I'm going to continue. I mean, I've been an all caps 144 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,200 person ever since I started my bullet journal almost nine years 145 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,160 ago. I think we may have talked about 146 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,280 it on a previous episode, but if not, you know, when I started, I 147 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:50,320 was very intentional about a handful of things. 148 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,960 I was very intentional about thinking about grid spacing and 149 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,280 layouts and how I wanted that to be structured. 150 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,160 And my handwriting was one of the other really big things. 151 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,680 And the third was experimenting and using different types of 152 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,760 pens and tools and things like that. 153 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,080 But the handwriting part was something I actually adopted 154 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,920 from my dad because all my life growing up, he always wrote in 155 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,640 all caps. And when you're in school and 156 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,360 you're going through, that's never an option. 157 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,920 You know, everything has to be grammatically correct and 158 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,360 uppercase and lowercase and all these different things. 159 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,480 And then suddenly, for whatever reason, when I started the 160 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,120 Bullet Journal, I just made that decision to start doing that. 161 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,640 And it's so because I have to really think about drawing or 162 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,440 writing anything in lowercase. I was doing something with the 163 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,280 Uniball the other day and I was writing Uniball, which their 164 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:43,480 logo is all lowercase letters. And I was like you and, and like 165 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,560 it was, I was like almost like forcing my hand to write these 166 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,640 lowercase letters. It's just impossible for me 167 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,320 sometimes. So it's just really funny how my 168 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,440 handwriting is kind of changed in doing that. 169 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,160 But I feel similar to you, not because it looks matchy, matchy 170 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,880 your uniform. For me, it's just as like that's 171 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,240 how I'm writing and it's odd for me to go and do something 172 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,560 different. But I also really love the way 173 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,600 like some people write in like the squares. 174 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,040 So like say you have like a line grid square page. 175 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,880 They write like each letter inside of each one of those 176 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,320 squares. And I've always loved the way 177 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,360 that it looked, but I could never accomplish that. 178 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,960 And so I'm just like, well, all caps looks better in something 179 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,240 like that too. I've seen some really beautiful 180 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:27,880 lowercase letters in there too, like that. 181 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,240 But it's just like you see those things and you're like, I'm 182 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,000 going to try that. I'm going to try to do that. 183 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,320 And then like, either you're really good at it or I feel like 184 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:36,880 you're, you're really bad about it. 185 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:39,760 But like adopting those things in your journal or making a 186 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,559 decision, I think is an important part of it too. 187 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,400 Because that really kind of hurts to guide the direction 188 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:51,200 and, and can be curated without like overly curated to like a 189 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,440 entity degree where like you forget for a second that you 190 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,480 said you were going to do that and you're like, burn this to 191 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:57,920 the ground. Yeah, definitely. 192 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,640 I think that for me, when it came to writing in all caps in 193 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,360 my journal, it was very much one of those as seen online type 194 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,800 things. The main creators that I was 195 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,000 seeing creating bullet journal layouts and such used all caps 196 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,840 and there's. So when I got started, I'm like, 197 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,320 OK, well this seems to be something that is common to this 198 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,680 system, so I will do that too. And then because of that 199 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,160 cheerleader effect and the letter forms looking nicer with 200 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,320 just writing in all caps, I figured I'd just stick with it. 201 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,840 Mainly because my regular everyday handwriting, if I am 202 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,160 not kind of like, consciously aware of what I'm doing, the 203 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,480 italicization of it will change, and that lack of uniformity 204 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,240 across a page will give me the heebie jeebies. 205 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,360 It's not the kind of curation I like. 206 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,120 If it's going to be italicized, cool. 207 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,640 But it all has to be on the exact same angle of slant, 208 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,520 otherwise I will get irked. Oh yeah, see, this is where I 209 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,560 fall my complete opposite spectrum of you with those kind 210 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:50,880 of things. I'm like, meh, it's whatever. 211 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,600 I mean, I've taken it using like different type of letter forms. 212 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,360 So even though I don't write in lower case letters, I have this 213 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,280 font that I like to use. I call it Big Little. 214 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,120 It's stupid because it's like it's uppercase bigger but still 215 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,560 uppercase, but smaller than the other one and and then uppercase 216 00:10:05,560 --> 00:10:07,000 and you know, and kind of go in like that. 217 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,280 And it kind of gives us really fun like visual effect of 218 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,320 something being, you know, the start of a sentence or start of 219 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,280 a header. But I still get to run in all 220 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,520 caps, just in different sizes. And it's like a really fun way 221 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,080 to kind of do it. It takes away for me, it also 222 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,160 takes away the stress of having to have perfect letter form 223 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,960 because the whole purpose of a font like that is to be fun and 224 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:29,960 kind of exciting and a little bit different. 225 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,800 I use it a lot when I'm doing like Halloween spreads because 226 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,720 it has a little bit of like a spooky kind of feel to it, but 227 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,160 it's just really fun and easy to do with something like that. 228 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,280 So I find that over time with my letters, again, I'm not overly 229 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,240 worried about every header looking the same. 230 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,360 But I also personally feel like I let go a lot of that like 231 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,840 curatedness when I started using fountain pens and different inks 232 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,640 and different nib sizes because every single week look 233 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,200 different. So no longer do I have probably 234 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:04,120 maybe my first 3 or 4 bullet journals are all in just black 235 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,320 ink, right? I may have experimented with 236 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,800 some layouts or whatever, but that as I've gone on and used 237 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,840 different pens every week is a different color, you know? 238 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,080 So it's just like, OK, well, I don't have to worry about 239 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,480 feeling overly worried about that feature anymore because I 240 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,400 know that's how I'm going into it and I'm totally OK with it. 241 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,040 It's definitely weird flipping through notebooks and being like 242 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,280 all black, same fought. And then you get to the ones 243 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,520 like all different sizes, all different colors. 244 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,320 Look, Mark, what a little crazy over here. 245 00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:32,600 Oh dear. So I guess we could probably 246 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,120 safely bet that you would consider yourself more in Camp 247 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,800 Messy. Yeah, I think if you're looking 248 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,000 at that scale where you have, you know, messy over here and 249 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,200 you have, you know, completely curate on the other side, I'll 250 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,680 say I'm messy leaning maybe because I do enjoy a curated 251 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:51,040 page. I and I think when I set up my 252 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,680 Ebola journal spreads for instance, for the week, it's 253 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:57,080 very set up nicely. I'm measuring things. 254 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,120 I have a straight edge ruler. You know, I'm using certain 255 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,760 pieces. I want them to look nice. 256 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,480 I think the only time where I start to get like a little OK 257 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,960 with the messy is when I'm using stamps and those just innately, 258 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,800 you know, you have wet ink and things can happen and you don't 259 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,120 put them on straight. And at first that really 260 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,120 bothered me a lot. But then I just started to just 261 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,080 say, well, that's the personality of stamps. 262 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,040 Sometimes it's perfect. Sometimes it's, you know, cock 263 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,960 eyed one way, maybe got a fingerprint over here. 264 00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:26,840 So I think for me it's just been like slowly introducing myself 265 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,400 into being OK with it, especially when I'm writing 266 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:31,600 notes. You know, I use my bullet 267 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,680 journal for work almost exclusively. 268 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,320 So when I'm writing things and handwriting notes, I can't spend 269 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,640 the time making sure every single letter is in line and 270 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,080 perfect. If I write something wrong, I'm 271 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,160 not grabbing the correction tape and going over it and then 272 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,040 rewriting when it's dry, just crossing it and I keep going 273 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,920 with it. I mean, how many times I spell 274 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,280 things wrong and I'm like, oh, I'm missing AE and I like draw a 275 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,160 little, a little E in between, like some of the letters. 276 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,800 No one cares, no one's seen my nose. 277 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,520 But like, to me, I know it should be there. 278 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:02,840 I should learn how to sell, you know, basic words. 279 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,600 But I think like those kind of things, just it'd be more of a 280 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,160 functional, usable journal. I don't care really kind of what 281 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,440 it looks like when I'm into it. And and to me personally, that 282 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,160 just is more fun. I think it's just a really easy 283 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,120 way to go about it. It worries less about again, the 284 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,400 visualness of it. And I also think it just looks 285 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,200 like a really well used journal page when you're done with it. 286 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:25,120 It's just full of ink and everything else. 287 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,480 Like I feel productive when I see pages like that. 288 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,040 No, that's very fair. And I think it is also good to 289 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,880 note that like, you know, just because you lean and can't messy 290 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,680 or lean can't curate it or whatnot, does not mean that your 291 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:38,000 journal is not functional, does not mean that your journal isn't 292 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,080 working for you. But sometimes when we do see 293 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,760 people who are, you know, primarily sharing one type or 294 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,120 the other, it can lead us to question, am I actually doing 295 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,560 this right? Like am I actually a real 296 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:51,840 planner or have I gone astray somewhere? 297 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,000 Am I doing something wrong because of that? 298 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,840 And I think that social media in particular has a big role in 299 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,520 this. You know, the idea that the 300 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,520 things that do get widely shared or often kind of like put right 301 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,680 in front of our face, are those things that possibly just look a 302 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:09,280 little more curated. You know, they have that kind of 303 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,400 visual appeal to them, especially if we're thinking 304 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,720 places like, you know, Pinterest and Instagram and such. 305 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,240 Those places are very kind of aesthetic first as opposed to I 306 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,480 want to say like value first because I think there is value 307 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,960 in aesthetics. You know, I said it kind of like 308 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,960 adds to the joy of planning or whatnot. 309 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,920 But if we're thinking about like form and function, yadda yadda. 310 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,080 I think that the form part of that comes first on those 311 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,600 platforms, which if those are the places you're getting your 312 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,800 main source of inspiration for your planner, then oftentimes if 313 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,720 yours does not look like that, it can not necessarily like 314 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,240 fully consciously, but maybe subconsciously you're like, my 315 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,680 planner doesn't look like that. I don't think my planner is like 316 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,400 a real planner or it's not really planning because it 317 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,720 doesn't look or like fit the mold of what these other things 318 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,800 that I'm saying online are kind of presenting. 319 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:00,560 Oh, 100%. Actually one of the first times 320 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,040 early, early on in my bullet journaling career on Instagram, 321 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,960 supermassive black ink was a page I love so much. 322 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,520 I don't know that she post as much anymore, but she used to 323 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,560 and you know, you would see these awesome pages that she 324 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,320 would do and she only uses black ink. 325 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,880 That's it. And I was like, oh, like she was 326 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,240 actually I think the first person when I bullet was 327 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,560 starting a bullet journal that I was like, oh, I'm going to only 328 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,040 use black ink. Like if she can make her pages 329 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,680 look that awesome only in black ink, I can too. 330 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,640 Like she was a huge inspiration early on. 331 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,160 And I remember like found her for a super long time and I 332 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,400 remember one time she was showing her other pages. 333 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,880 So what she was showing on her feed was, you know, perfect 334 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,080 black ink lettering all nights and all of that. 335 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,520 And she flipped to a different page, and that's where she was 336 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,040 working, like actually working. And it looked nothing like that. 337 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,840 It was just like a everyday journal with someone writing 338 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:56,440 down their notes and task and stuff. 339 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:01,160 And that moment for me was like, oh, OK, and this is well before 340 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,040 I fully understood like the social media of bullet 341 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,360 journaling and or the bullet journaling of social media, 342 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,000 whichever way that is where, yes, what you're presenting 343 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,240 looks beautiful and perfect. It is art, right? 344 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,840 You're, you're going to show and always put your best foot 345 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,120 forward. But the reality of what that 346 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,760 looked like was just like, oh, good, I'm not, I'm not wrong in 347 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:23,960 what I'm doing. I was like, she's just showing 348 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,880 her best work on her pages. But when she's actually working 349 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,880 in it, she's a human being. And like that was, I was like, I 350 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,800 was like, oh, it's OK now. I was like, that permission 351 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,760 almost. I had to see that to be like, 352 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,080 yes, I don't have to be perfect in this journal for it to be a 353 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,680 journal. I think that, you know, one of 354 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,360 the things that gets me about this kind of point of 355 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,880 conversation in particular is the idea of like, Oh well, the 356 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,600 plans you see online are fake or something or the planning that 357 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,080 people is doing online, you know, presenting that's like 358 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,560 overly curated or very visually appealing or whatever. 359 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,360 That's not their real plans. And I mean, in her case, she had 360 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,680 functional pages that she was working in that did look a 361 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,400 little bit different. But I do also feel that for a 362 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,960 lot of the people who are presenting their planner online, 363 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,359 given the time it takes to make that they're not spending more 364 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,480 time setting up another one. I'm certainly not. 365 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,079 So my curated pages or whatever, those are my planning pages. 366 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,079 That is where I am doing my planning. 367 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,119 It's just that I'm also quite mindful as I'm going through to 368 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,640 make it look nice. One, because sharing on the 369 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,640 Internet, but also 2 for own personal journaling fulfillment 370 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,760 and enjoyment and such. So it's one of those things that 371 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,800 like, yes, some of the planning that we're seeing online or the 372 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,760 planner layouts or whatnot, those ones that do have a lot of 373 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,000 visual appeal, some of them don't represent the real life 374 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,720 for those people. Them also made in the kind of 375 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,520 like aspirational planning kind of space. 376 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,680 Whereas for some people, sure, it may look nice and have visual 377 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:50,760 appeal and whatever, but they're still actively using it. 378 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,480 That is still how they're getting things done. 379 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,280 It's just that that visual appeal aspect is something that 380 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,760 adds some kind kind of like purpose fulfillment for them in 381 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,720 their planner, whether that be joy or the fact that if they 382 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,000 like the way it looks, they're actually going to use it or like 383 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,200 whatever it is. For me, it's very much the idea 384 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,680 of if I like the way it looks, I will actually come back to and 385 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,040 use it, whereas if I don't like the way it looks, I will not 386 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,600 come back to and use it. It's definitely interesting when 387 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,400 you do sit back and take a look at it. 388 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,560 I was trying to think there was like probably over the past 389 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,600 several years. And if you remember the names of 390 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,600 these, Jess, tell me or maybe you'd even see it. 391 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,880 I don't remember. Or again, Planner Pals, if you 392 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,360 remember seeing these people, but they used to do like these 393 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:33,120 full spreads for like their monthly overviews and they truly 394 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:40,280 were art like the most beautiful line detail coloring all these 395 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,000 pieces. But it took them weeks to be 396 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,200 able to make that one page. And there's like two people that 397 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,760 I there's again, it's like in my mind, there is one I remember. 398 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,200 There was Isabel Hoops. She was, she's an art teacher, 399 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,680 so the work she was doing was just crazy awesome. 400 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:01,240 And then there was Love with Miss Jay or Love by Love with 401 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,200 Miss Jay. Gosh, her work was gorgeous. 402 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,880 It was in a corettable like it truly was and then I remember 403 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,240 one time she had it like half done and it was like middle of 404 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:13,840 the month. She was like still working on my 405 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,400 monthly overview and I was like, girl, don't even call it a 406 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,240 monthly overview anymore. This is straight up art. 407 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,920 Like you don't need to worry about. 408 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,120 Isabella is a whole other level. I mean, Oh my gosh, hers. 409 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,520 I swear. Like I don't even have words 410 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,120 like she would draw like horses for April and you were like, I'm 411 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:34,640 sorry, is that a photograph? She's like, no, I didn't color 412 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,040 pencil. Like damn, that is awesome. 413 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,280 But like this things like that though, where you have to look 414 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,280 at it from that perspective though and appreciate it for 415 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,960 what it is, because at no point ever was I going to ever draw 416 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,920 anything that looked like that. It inspired me to look into it 417 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,200 more or to think about it or whatever, but I knew this that 418 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,800 was not happening over here. So I just looked at it and said 419 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,200 I appreciate the art of it. I appreciate the time. 420 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,520 I appreciate them sharing it and going through with it. 421 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,760 For me, it never made me mad or feel like I wasn't doing 422 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,320 anything the right way. I will say there are some 423 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,480 stamping artists like that, that used to like stamp out whole 424 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,960 pages and I'm like, well, that looks perfect. 425 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,000 Why can't I get mine to look like that? 426 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,080 You know, you're just like it's stamping. 427 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:20,600 You have to practice it, you know, but. 428 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,440 I think that's a really big thing too. 429 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,000 But I know there's people who hated on those people that were 430 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,720 like, oh, like, this is ridiculous. 431 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,480 That's a waste of time. Why would you ever do that? 432 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,400 And I was like, chill out, my friend, appreciate this artwork. 433 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,360 Like that's what it is. I think that the thing that 434 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:38,920 always got me about those this is a waste of time comments. 435 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,880 I'm like bra, pot, kettle black. Like it was a waste of time to 436 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,120 write this comment. Go touch some grass. 437 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,000 Do something with your life. Well, it is. 438 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000 It's just like for anyone to look at anybody of work and say 439 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,560 that. Now I would say that if they 440 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,120 were spending more time designing those pages and 441 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,240 completely flopping on their work and their life and their 442 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,920 other things that they had to accomplish because they were 443 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,600 more focused on that, then yes. Like if you're, if the point of 444 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:08,080 doing that was to make a functional page that you were 445 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,320 using and again, helping you improve kind of your day today 446 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,680 and you were failing at that, absolutely. 447 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,240 That is not a productive spread that you made for yourself. 448 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,800 I definitely was guilty of that early on. 449 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,640 I remember one time somebody had posted, it was like something 450 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,440 with like clouds and they had like really cool drop shadows 451 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,360 and something. And I was like, oh, I'm going to 452 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:30,040 do something like that too. And then I went to go like right 453 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,080 in the cloud and I was like, there's only like I can fit 3 454 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,200 words inside of this. I was so focused on like how 455 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,520 this cloud looked, I was not even thinking about how will I 456 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,520 write inside of this cloud. Yeah, definitely. 457 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,760 And I think that's one of the things that I've had to learn 458 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,040 over time with, you know, sourcing inspiration online, 459 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,960 whatnot, is that some layouts look absolutely gorgeous and 460 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,040 they would not work for me at all. 461 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,480 And being able to figure that out for yourself, it does kind 462 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,520 of come with, you know, reps time in the game type of a 463 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,760 thing. Like I know that horizontal 464 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,320 layouts, while they look cool, aren't going to work for me 465 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,120 because I love a long ass checklist. 466 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,880 It needs to be like a full length of the page for just one 467 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,320 day of the week kind of a thing because your girl got stuff to 468 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,520 write down. But in looking at those layouts 469 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,680 and looking at the kind of, you know, functional stuff that they 470 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,280 have in there, all the structures or whatnot, just 471 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,000 because it doesn't match the style of planning I need for 472 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,000 myself doesn't mean that it is not functional for that person. 473 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,320 Even if it is curated or even if it is messy kind of a thing. 474 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,920 I think that one of the things that we've kind of edged into 475 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,480 and touched on is this idea of, well, if you've got camp messy 476 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,240 and camp curated, what happens if you go to the extremes of 477 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,720 those? What happens if you kind of take 478 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,240 it too far in either direction? Because I think that both of 479 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,400 them do have their kind of innate pros, but if you get a 480 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,560 little bit too aggressively into either side, you can kind of run 481 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,160 into some decent cons. So I'm gonna let you start. 482 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,480 What do you think the cons of curated planning are? 483 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,320 Well, I talked about this. I did a previous episode. 484 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,400 I think if you are so focused on how it looks, then you don't 485 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,200 actually write down the things that you need to. 486 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,960 And I was very guilty of this before. 487 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,320 I was talking about like headers, for instance, for pages 488 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,640 where I'm like, well, hold on, I had this theme that I was going 489 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,640 for with this certain lettering and I don't have that pen with 490 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,760 me right now. So I wouldn't write it like 491 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,720 that's pointless. That doesn't make any sense. 492 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,800 So, you know, big part of that is just going in and like 493 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,520 getting it done or you have to be so like on point that like 494 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,760 that pen or that marker or whatever tools you're using are 495 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:37,680 always with you. So I think for, for from my 496 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:41,240 perspective, that is kind of it. I think if it's holding you up 497 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,280 from writing things down and kind of getting into it, it can 498 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,240 cause more of a mess. You know, if you're like, oh, 499 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,560 well, I can't write this in my notebook, so I'm going to write 500 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,680 on the scrap piece of paper and then you lose said scrap of 501 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,440 paper because it's not attached inside of your notebook. 502 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,320 Well, that's completely defeated the purpose of what this planner 503 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,840 is for or that type of planner, if it's one that you're writing 504 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,240 in often, like you said, if you have an intentional planner that 505 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,320 is there to to help you, you know, be intentional to help you 506 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,880 focus on a skill to do something like that, that's a different 507 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,720 story. You know, I can't really think 508 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,000 of any other negative other than really just kind of it holding 509 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,240 you back from doing things. I don't know if you have any 510 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,640 examples as a curated planet yourself where you've had a 511 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,400 little bit of a can't move forward moment. 512 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,480 Yeah. No, I think that you've kind of 513 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,040 hit the nail on the head with most of it there. 514 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,120 It's that idea of just like fueling perfectionism, I feel 515 00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:36,480 like is a big one. It's like if you turn your 516 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:40,240 planner into such a curated space where if things don't look 517 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,040 a certain way or you don't have the right pain or something like 518 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,800 that, you can kind of just build this almost avoidance for being 519 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,280 able to use your planner or your journal or whatnot. 520 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,760 Because if you can't do it right, you're not going to do it 521 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,560 at all, which is definitely a problem area. 522 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,560 I also kind of find that sometimes, depending on the kind 523 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,440 of layouts you're going with, and if you haven't very 524 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,840 intentionally picked your layouts or you know, if you're 525 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,920 making it yourself, drawing them up in a way that is going to 526 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,560 match your planning style because you've just done it for 527 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,560 an overall visual. Then sometimes you can have like 528 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,600 missing details. You might not be able to Add all 529 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,000 of the things in that you need to. 530 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:18,520 You might not be able to, I don't know, just jot down a 531 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,040 quick note or something that's going to be important for future 532 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,920 you to remember. But you tell yourself, I'll just 533 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,280 remember it because there's nowhere in your kind of very 534 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,240 laid out structured setup for those kind of like quick drop 535 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,120 note type things. The stuff that you can't 536 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:37,040 necessarily predict if you are or aren't going to need it. 537 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:40,200 You can also get into the realm of like performative planning in 538 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,520 a way, if you're very, very caught up on that idea of the 539 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,360 curation of the information and you know, making look visually 540 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:49,120 appealing or whatnot. Are we doing this in such a way 541 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,600 that it is going to fulfill the purpose we've given for the 542 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,760 planner or are we just doing it because because it looks good or 543 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,280 the kind of like visual aspect of it is appealing in some way? 544 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,600 That's probably what kind of worries me the most. 545 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,160 What I get worried about in terms of my personal curated 546 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,280 planning is the kind of time taken to pre plan a structure 547 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,880 before I put it into my planner to then write down my plans to 548 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,560 then go and execute on the plans to get the plans done. 549 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,880 That's the part that worries me the most. 550 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,200 I had an instance the other week where somebody was sharing some 551 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,840 information with me and I was like, oh, I need someone to put 552 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,040 this, but there's nowhere on my current weekly to put it. 553 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,520 And it didn't occur to me that I could just, you know, whip out 554 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,960 Notion or whatever and jot it down into my notesbook over 555 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,960 there. At the time, I wasn't at a 556 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,880 computer or whatnot, but I kind of had this panic moment like, 557 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,120 Oh my gosh, I feel like I need to write this in my planner, but 558 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:40,760 I don't have anywhere in my planner to write this. 559 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,240 So then I can't write it in my planner. 560 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,120 So do I just remember the plans? Because I'm not going to 561 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:46,120 remember the plans, but I don't have anywhere in my planner for 562 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:47,400 it. Spiral, spiral, spiral. 563 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:49,320 Yeah, it didn't work out well for me. 564 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,480 So we've talked about the negatives of curated I shared, 565 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,680 but I think it would be so Jess, as a non messy planner, what do 566 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,520 you think are the big negatives for that type of approach? 567 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,360 I think that in thinking about the negatives of messy planning 568 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,200 is mainly kind of like Jess. What are your personal reasons 569 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,880 for not messy planning? And for one, it's just mainly 570 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,840 the idea of being able to reference things later. 571 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,640 When it comes to messy planning, I find that when I start to lane 572 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,960 messy, I usually get too messy, and then trying to find 573 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,800 information after the fact becomes very difficult for me. 574 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,440 Either that or because I'm just jotting things down very fast 575 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,000 and very scribbly or whatnot, I often won't be as intentional 576 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,040 about what information gets added there. 577 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,120 Which means that then really key important things can get lost in 578 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,840 a swamp of everything else. Because it was also quick and 579 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,880 easy to write down. Like yes, frictionless writing 580 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,640 things down quick, love that. But then actually being able to 581 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,280 go and use that information after the fact becomes kind of 582 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,120 difficult. I also find that with the messy 583 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,920 planning, because there is such a joy and a kind of appreciation 584 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,800 of things that are visually appealing, I will come back to 585 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:00,200 things if they are visually appealing. 586 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,000 If it's scribbly and messy, I feel it's very disposable and 587 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,600 thus I won't come back to it and actually reference the stuff 588 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,960 I've written down. So it might give me kind of 589 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,240 instant relief about being able to get things out of my head and 590 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,720 onto paper or whatnot, which could be a benefit. 591 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,640 But in the long run, actually using the information coming 592 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,920 back to it and such I won't be inclined to do because I won't 593 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:26,240 want to work in the system when it looks too chaotic or not laid 594 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,840 out in a way that kind of works later for future Jess's brain. 595 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:31,240 Interesting. Yeah. 596 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,960 So I would say like my resolution for that in my case, 597 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,680 because I've kind of been a little all over the place, is 598 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,120 utilizing my index pretty hardcore with those special 599 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,000 ideas. Because a while back I always 600 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,960 thought like entry into my index had to be an entire page of 601 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,480 content. And what I've realized over 602 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,800 time, especially with the way that I plan, because I don't 603 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,000 always have a dedicated page for every idea because maybe it's 604 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,560 not that many grouped ideas to be a collection page yet, is I 605 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,360 will start writing those things or those ideas into my index. 606 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,360 Because I also felt like my index had to be perfectly 607 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,360 curated with like exact lines and numbers and all of that. 608 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,960 And I'm realizing again, more and more over the years is like, 609 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,000 it is more important to be able to find that information again 610 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,760 than worry necessarily where it falls in line. 611 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,000 I sometimes will skip pages in my journal, especially if like 612 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,400 I've had like bleed through or something that just doesn't look 613 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,760 great for my next page. And then I will come back to 614 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,040 those for like messy notes or something like that. 615 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,240 And then I go into my index. I'm like, oh, I have page, you 616 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,120 know, whatever through 20 right now, but the page I skipped was 617 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,440 on page 15. And I'm like, but I'm like, 618 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,360 Mark, that's not what this is about. 619 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,160 It's about the topic and where to find it. 620 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,080 So that it, for me has always been a really important part of 621 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,160 planning is that if I have an idea that I'm looking for or 622 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,080 trying to keep in my mind, regardless of how the rest of 623 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,000 that page looks, I'll be like, oh, this topic was on this page, 624 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,040 just a part of my weekly page, but just to be able to reference 625 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,960 it again. But I understand what you're 626 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,160 saying about it. But I feel like that the counter 627 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,320 to that is to be a little bit more organized about how you 628 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,520 keep your journal. And then that we don't have to 629 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,680 worry about it being on a perfect page or a perfect spot 630 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,200 when you go into it. You can just write and then come 631 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,600 back to it later. Excellent. 632 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,280 So curate your mess. I've got it, can do it. 633 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,200 There you go. That's all you got to do is, you 634 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,720 know, think about it that way and everything can lean curated 635 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,480 if you really want it to. Yeah, I I think that given the 636 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,320 fact that either of the extremes does have some kind of negatives 637 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,880 associated with it, there is really decent benefit of having 638 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,400 a happy medium like falling somewhere in the middle, whether 639 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,160 it be more kind of messy leaning or curated leaning. 640 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,000 Because both of them do have their pros and do have their 641 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,600 cons, finding a blended or hybrid system can be a just 642 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,160 happier place to exist in. Yeah, and I feel you completely 643 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,080 on this idea of like messy and curated. 644 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,640 Like a great example, for instance, I was jotting down a 645 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,600 list of I was signing my team up for some training classes, but 646 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,320 everybody had to volunteer for that training class. 647 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,400 So they had to message me and say, Mark, I would like to be 648 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,680 signed up for that. So I went ahead and started 649 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,000 writing down a few names and I drew a little line. 650 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,320 I was like, oh, I have a table, You know, once they're signed 651 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,640 up, I'll check off over here. The thing is, I didn't think 652 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,160 that I have 13 people on my team. 653 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,560 I was like, well, not everyone may message me, so I'm not going 654 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,520 to save 13 spaces for this. The problem is, you know, 13 655 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,520 people did. And so I had probably enough 656 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,280 space for like 10 people because I was like, some people might 657 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,400 not. And then I had to like go a bit 658 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,560 beyond that. And I had already written notes 659 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,640 below this little like mini chart that I made. 660 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,640 And I was like, now this looks ugly, but I was just like, it's 661 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,200 OK, You know, like yes, would I have preferred that? 662 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,200 It looked really nice because I spent the time to be like, oh, 663 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,000 names and checked when it's done. 664 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,600 Like yes, it would have looked very cool. 665 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,360 But at the end of the day, I just made sure the people's 666 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,480 names were there, and then I signed them up for it. 667 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,920 But that was a moment where I was like, oh, I should have 668 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,200 taken a beat and I should have just said, OK, Mark, what are 669 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,320 the possibilities with this? I didn't want to hold me back 670 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,200 because again, I was in the moment and doing it. 671 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,480 I wasn't truly really worried about it. 672 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,200 But like that I think is a great example where like, I should 673 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,600 have just waited a little bit and curated like that little 674 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,120 piece, a little bit of my notes and it would have just like 675 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,440 fulfilled me a little bit more. I'm fine with it. 676 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:25,200 It worked. It did. 677 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,160 It's a job, but I would have liked to be a little more more 678 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,320 perfect. Yeah, whereas if you're someone 679 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,320 like me, you would have held off until you had all the 680 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,160 information before you made the table. 681 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,560 Which doesn't necessarily help you in the moment though, does 682 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,080 it? Because then you're kind of like 683 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,800 kicking work to future you who already has enough problems like 684 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,760 future you doesn't want you to pile on, stop piling on future 685 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,200 you. But I do that very often when it 686 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,520 comes to my planning and making things look and kind of like 687 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,560 encapsulate all the information possible, Which I mean, I guess 688 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,760 this is just one of my my biggest weaknesses is feeling 689 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,400 like I have to have all the information before I can take 690 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,400 action on things. And that does definitely 691 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,800 manifest in my planning and my layouts and such. 692 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,800 You know, in thinking about setting up for a new month or 693 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,040 whatever, one of the things that I like to do is put in project 694 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,360 collections or effectively just checklists of stuff that I need 695 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,800 to do in order to reach certain goals or work on sort of 696 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,440 projects or whatever else. And rather than just draw up a 697 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,360 space in my layout and call it a day, I will jump into my layout 698 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,120 planner, which is a digital document. 699 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,160 I will type out all the things that I need to do. 700 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,600 I will structure them on the page to make sure it looks nice. 701 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,080 I will know exactly what dimensions of box I will need. 702 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,400 Then I will go and draw the box. So it's like, cool, you've pre 703 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,480 planned your list before you put it into your planner, which was 704 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,200 supposed to help you planning out your list. 705 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,640 Yes, that is exactly what I did. Well, see, the thing I get into 706 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,360 is like, then isn't, I mean, technically you're doing work 707 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,360 with it, but then I feel like it almost moves into that 708 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,320 performative part because you have all the information to get 709 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,680 there. So really all you're doing in a 710 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,240 way is just rerunning that information for yourself. 711 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,880 I guess if you're going to use it again later, I can see a 712 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,440 benefit to that. But I think it's like when it's 713 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,760 in the moment though, that you're just like, well, wait, 714 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,960 you know, in my instance there, if you're like, OK, well, I need 715 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,920 to have everyone's name and know they're going to sign up before 716 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,159 I make this chart. But for me it was I need the 717 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:16,880 name and I would just sign them up instantly. 718 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,440 I wasn't waiting for like the full list to then do it. 719 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,560 So like it wasn't helpful necessarily in that part. 720 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,239 But then I would have felt like, well, I already did all the 721 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,560 tasks for that. So why am I going to come back 722 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,639 and rewrite that inside of my journal if I've already done it? 723 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:33,199 The point of it was the checklist. 724 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,080 So like I feel like sometimes that's where I get a little like 725 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,360 back and forth on it where like I see the benefits of it, but 726 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,840 it's not helping me in that moment. 727 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,920 So I think maybe it's important for you to know kind of what you 728 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,920 want from it before you start to do it, which is, like I said, 729 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,400 maybe sometimes just taking a beat and being like, OK, do I 730 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,280 need to plan this out or do I just need to go for? 731 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,159 It. Yeah, To clarify, I'm not 732 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,320 writing a full project plan in my journal after the project has 733 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:58,560 already been done. All right. 734 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,160 If that's anything that anybody was picking up there, no, that's 735 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,400 not the case. Also just making sure I know 736 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,320 exactly what goes on the list so that then I can plan the layout 737 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,160 so it will accommodate the full list. 738 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,760 As opposed to putting in a section that I think will 739 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,640 accommodate the list and then finding, oh actually you needed 740 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,320 like 2 columns for this or you only needed one column for this. 741 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,480 One instance of that I can think of is when I was making a guest 742 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,240 list for my birthday celebration. 743 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:24,680 I drew in the amount of space I was actually going to need for 744 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,520 the number of guests I was inviting and then I just had 745 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,200 this like weird, awkward space below it and like what do I do 746 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,160 with that? I I got out a sticker, put it 747 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,080 over the top and made the box longer, even though I had no 748 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,840 intentions of inviting more people. 749 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,640 I just wanted to fill the space up so that it looked nice. 750 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,120 So we've got the ass box with four guests solid. 751 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,800 Yeah, I mean, there's definitely ways to go about it. 752 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,680 I mean, I think like, that's a great example. 753 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,240 It's like wasted space. You know, it's like, well, I 754 00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:55,040 plan for this to be one thing and it went a different way. 755 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,640 And so like, I have to like, retrofit the space to do 756 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,280 something else. Now that can kind of get in your 757 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,480 way a little bit where you're like, OK, well, if I would have 758 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,720 just kind of went with it, I could have drew a box around it 759 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,640 later and said, oh, pretty. Exactly. 760 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,640 But it's all good. It's, I think it's one of those 761 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,600 like it's a process that you learn over time, you know, and 762 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,760 I, I think that throughout my planner history or whatnot, I 763 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,640 have tended more into the curated space. 764 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,720 I have tended slightly more into the messy. 765 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,080 I think in terms of the messiness of it, the only things 766 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,160 that I would consider messy in my everyday journals and such a 767 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,840 layouts that I made that I didn't like. 768 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,440 That's just because I didn't like them. 769 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,000 It's not because they're actually messy. 770 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,560 It's just that something about it gave me the ick and I'm like, 771 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,640 no, I'm not going to use that. So regardless of where you fall, 772 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,320 it's all good at the end of the day. 773 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,960 It's really just making sure that your planning system term, 774 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,320 your planners or whatnot, or fulfilling the needs you give 775 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:48,880 them. Whether that be, you know, the 776 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,000 joy of having curated spaces in there that look very nice, 777 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,680 Whether it be that idea of being able to think on paper and just 778 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,400 get things down really quickly and all of that type of thing. 779 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,960 Both are valid, both can work. Just make sure that in either 780 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,440 camp, you're not falling into the major cons that are 781 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,320 associated with going to the extremes. 782 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,240 So not being able to find your information again because you 783 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,760 wrote things down messy and now you can't even read your own 784 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,880 handwriting anymore. Or not curating to the point 785 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,880 where it's like OK cool, I have to make three like mock ups of 786 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,920 my layout before I put my layout into my journal to then write 787 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,920 out my perfect plans. Both of those are problems, and 788 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,160 they're probably not aligned with the functionality that you 789 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,160 want for your planning system. Yeah. 790 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,320 And I think just knowing that it's absolutely OK to be 791 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,720 somewhere in the middle or some leaning way with it is to say 792 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,000 like it's absolutely OK that this looks this way. 793 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,400 And I think also too like something I've done, I have a 794 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,000 handful. I know you've talked about like 795 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,000 R&D journals too, like if you really want to plan something in 796 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,680 advance and just have like a resource for that, you know, 797 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,600 grab another journal and kind of sketch those things out and 798 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,320 allow yourself to be messy as you are exploring that. 799 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,040 Because it's almost like we said, you're giving a purpose to 800 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,840 a journal. You're saying, OK journal, you 801 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,080 are my messy sketchbook journal where I just think out ideas or 802 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,120 do whatever with. But like you can work that all 803 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,240 out there so that when you go to like set up a new weekly or 804 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:10,560 daily or monthly, you have that and you're like, oh, here's the 805 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,440 spacing. It looked nice. 806 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,040 It works well, you know, like I used to have a version where I 807 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,120 would actually take notes, like inside of the empty space, you'd 808 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,720 be like, this worked out really well for me or this wasn't 809 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:25,040 enough space, maybe rethink this and almost kind of like critique 810 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,520 each week as I went through with it. 811 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,560 But that's what's really helped me get to a point to say, OK, 812 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,800 let's be thoughtful about what we're doing, but know that it 813 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,480 also needs to be workable too. So I think for all the planner 814 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,920 pals, just know like you don't have to be one way or the other. 815 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,640 You might change over time or you might just change 816 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,880 day-to-day. And if you feel like sometimes 817 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,200 you want to be a little extra buttoned up, absolutely create a 818 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,160 page. Take your time, have fun with 819 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:49,720 it. But if you want to let loose, 820 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:51,840 you know, let your hair down a little bit and have fun. 821 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,880 If you need to give yourself permission to that on a separate 822 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,800 page that no one will ever see, I say go for it. 823 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,400 Live on the wild side, see what happens. 824 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,560 And we, of course, would love to know Planet Pals. 825 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,200 Where do you think you fall? Do you learn more curated, more 826 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:06,920 messy? Very much in between. 827 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,320 If it depends on a different space or a different journal, we 828 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,200 would love to know. Let us know either in the 829 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,320 comments on YouTube or you can hit us up at Planet Pals Podcast 830 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,200 at Gmail dot com or over on Instagram at Planner Pals 831 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,440 Podcast. An awesome episode as always, 832 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,560 great talking about these different pieces and planner 833 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,920 pals. If you want to get these 834 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,000 episodes in advance, you can now take part because you can be a 835 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,120 part of our official planner pals podcast YouTube membership 836 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,320 where you'll actually get podcast in advance before they 837 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,680 launch on the days that they do. We also are letting you pick 838 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,440 some of the future topics as well as we go through, which is 839 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,280 a giant perk because I mean, we want to make sure you're getting 840 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,360 what you want. So make sure you click the join 841 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,760 button right next to the Planner Pals name on YouTube. 842 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,960 We also have you there, and we can't wait for you to share some 843 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,520 of your cool stuff with us in the future. 844 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,600 Whether you're part of the membership or not though, we 845 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,520 want to hear from you. Planner pals, Do let us know 846 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,080 your thoughts on whether you are a messy or curated planner. 847 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,120 And as always, thanks for watching.