1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,120 Hello and welcome to the Planner Pals Podcast, a podcast hosted 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,120 by two true planner pals. My name is Mark and I go by Mark 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,560 Your pages. And I'm Jess or Jessie Curran, 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,480 and in this episode we're going to be talking about planning as 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,720 a form of procrastination. Most of us have fallen victim to 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,520 it before. It's not necessarily where we 7 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,880 want to be when it comes to making great plans and actually 8 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:21,800 executing on them and getting things done. 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,160 So we're going to be looking at instances that we have fallen 10 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,840 victim to this, why we think this happens and possibly some 11 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,159 ways forward. But it's OK if you have fallen 12 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,680 victim to progress the planning. We are right there with you. 13 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,600 It happens to the best of us, but being able to actually 14 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,640 identify when you're doing it is really the first step to finding 15 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,040 a solution. So Mark, what would be an 16 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,440 instance where you have found yourself procrastinating by 17 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,120 using planning? So I have this happen all the 18 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,160 time, Jess. It's when I have a wonderful 19 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:54,920 idea that I want to record, but I don't want to put away a lot 20 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,320 of my materials to do so. So I think this is the biggest 21 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,400 area in my life where I do that, where I'm like, OK, I'm going to 22 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,040 set up this video, but I have to have all my materials ready to 23 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:05,519 go. And then I'll get distracted by 24 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,040 something else or just not really be focused. 25 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,880 You know, I think in my mind I want to do it, but like, I'm not 26 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:12,800 kind of feeling it. So I've got, you know, the 27 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,000 markers out, the inks, the pens, all the things, the ideas. 28 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,400 And then I have to like, sit to the side or I can't get it to it 29 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,040 just yet. And instead of putting the 30 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,560 things away, they just sit here on my desk and all the time I'm 31 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,560 just like shuffling them around my desk. 32 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,720 It's happening right now in multiple spaces. 33 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,840 It's happening with some stamps that I just got. 34 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,280 And I was like, well, like, I can't put them away yet because 35 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:34,880 I want to make a video to do them. 36 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,600 So they're just out inside of the packaging. 37 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,280 I've like all of my inks from my ink vet calendars out too, 38 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,040 because I haven't put them into my catalog yet. 39 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,160 And, and I keep shuffling them all over it. 40 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,800 It was a mess today just getting this episode started. 41 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,600 Let me just tell you, I almost talked a lot of things over. 42 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,240 Oh dear, I completely understand that feeling like when you 43 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,440 especially when it comes to like the first initial setup of a 44 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,720 layout. Oftentimes I have all of this 45 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,120 kind of pre planning that I like to do to make it so that the 46 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,400 actual planning stage of putting things down on paper is as 47 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,759 smooth as possible. But I I've haven't necessarily 48 00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:11,680 timed it for myself and I feel like I should but I swear that 49 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,880 the pre planning stages before I even put the plan into the 50 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,000 planner takes longer than the setup of the planning and 51 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,200 possibly even the doing of the stuff sometimes. 52 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,520 Yeah, it's like shopping your store, first of all, all making 53 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,560 sure you have all of the things that you need. 54 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,320 And I do that a lot too. I've been recently trying to be 55 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,920 good about not just doing everything here in my office, at 56 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:32,000 least with like the pre planning. 57 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,680 I'll take a pencil, my ruler, my notebook downstairs. 58 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,840 So while we're watching TV or something like that, I'll get it 59 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:39,400 started. But there have been plenty of 60 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,560 times, especially for my new bullet journal setup, I had that 61 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,840 thing penciled in pretty much like all in a night. 62 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:49,360 And then to actually like make the video record the whole thing 63 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,040 like that was a multi day process, which it felt like it 64 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,240 shouldn't have been exactly that. 65 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,280 But I was like, well, same deal. Like, well, which marker did I 66 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,120 use? Because sometimes I forget, 67 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,800 especially if I put it away, you know, and I can't have it be all 68 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,080 like messed up. It's just, it's one of those 69 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,840 things, yeah, where I'm like, OK, you're going to be really 70 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,880 good about this. And I'm like minimal supply when 71 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,000 I'm pre planning because I'm just sketching it in with a 72 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,320 pencil. Then then that next step before 73 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,760 like filming or doing it's, it is a hot mess. 74 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,000 So I would say like that's definitely my thing. 75 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,200 I get very like annoyed by it as well. 76 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,920 And there are times where I'm just like moving it so many 77 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:26,760 times where I'm just like, you're not doing this anymore. 78 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,040 And I like put it away. I'm like, screw that idea. 79 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,360 Like we're not making it happen. And it's just like a way for me 80 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,520 just to be like out of sight, out of mind, which then again, 81 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,320 like in the long run, it's just very counterproductive because I 82 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,840 basically have it ready to go. I just like, I can't get it 83 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,720 there yet. So it just, it causes a big 84 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,120 problem. But how about yourself? 85 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,640 Do you have anything where you're doing like a similar type 86 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,880 thing with your planner procrastination? 87 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,640 Yeah, I think another way that planning is a form of 88 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,800 procrastination shows up is the idea of the research stage. 89 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,360 I feel like the research stage is where all good goal plans 90 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,520 just go to die, honestly. Because this idea of like, oh, I 91 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,120 need to know the perfect timeline of events. 92 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,680 I know I need to know the like perfect sequence of things I 93 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,840 have have to do in order to get me from where I'm at, where I 94 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,440 want to be. So we kind of get stuck in this 95 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,440 idea of having to collect more and more information for 96 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,160 ourselves so that we know quote everything before we take the 97 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:25,360 first concrete action step. And I am very much the kind of 98 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,920 person who falls victim to this, especially when it comes to 99 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,760 things like organizing my office, right? 100 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,120 I notably recently have reorganized my office. 101 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,080 I managed to get past the planning procrastination stage 102 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,280 and actually do something like moving my desk. 103 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,840 But before that, the lead up to getting it to the actual like 104 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:45,800 moving things around stage was a whole bunch of humming and 105 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,080 eyeing like, OK, well what's my purpose here? 106 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,000 But what if I need a new desk? But what if I don't want these 107 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,040 desk organizers and I want these ones instead? 108 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,720 I need to know all of the possible options before I move 109 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,120 anything on the floor plan before I get started at all. 110 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:01,600 Even though you're sitting in a state of like, not really 111 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,000 enjoying where you're at or things aren't working for you or 112 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,160 whatnot, but you're kind of paralyzed that I dear of not 113 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,800 having enough information to make an action step forward. 114 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,440 That is one that always gets me. Yeah, I kind of have the 115 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,680 opposite to that one. So I always love talking about 116 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,200 the stuff with you because you are so like plannerly and like 117 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,360 your approach. If something doesn't work for 118 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,080 me, it could be like 5 minutes before my next work meeting and 119 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,200 I will rearrange my desk and move stuff around. 120 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:28,520 I actually just did it the other day. 121 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,240 Like I didn't like the way my monitors were set up and I was 122 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,480 like, well, I have have to move this and like, wasn't I have it 123 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,880 on like one of those it like lifts it above the desk. 124 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,920 So it's on like one of these movable arms and I like turn it 125 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,080 a certain way. And it wasn't like going the way 126 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,360 I wanted to. And when I look behind it, like 127 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,480 the arm, the back end of the arm is hitting the back of the wall. 128 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,640 So like it physically couldn't go anywhere. 129 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,080 So it's like literally a few minutes before a meeting, I'm 130 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,640 under my desk pulling it. Thank God it didn't collapse on 131 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,720 me or something to like move it away from the wall to get it to 132 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,960 where I needed it. And you know, my timer goes off 133 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,600 to tell me I need to get back to this meeting or whatever else. 134 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,120 And then like I'm just sitting there in the entire meeting. 135 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,280 I'm like, Mark, you're in chaos right now. 136 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,640 Like you literally have like wires hanging out over here. 137 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,840 Your desk is all like caddy cornered to the wall because I 138 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:19,200 pull it out so I can move this arm and it's like the worst time 139 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,360 ever. And then what's even worse 140 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,000 sometimes is like I can't get to putting things back in the order 141 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,800 right away. And so sometimes I'll leave my 142 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,040 office and it looks just like things loaded inside of yours, 143 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,680 all for good intention. But it's just one of those 144 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,080 things where I feel a little bit opposite, where like I don't 145 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,760 have a problem with starting an idea or a project like that. 146 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,880 It's knowing that I want to try to get it done because just the 147 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,920 fact of like leaving it there afterwards is going to like mess 148 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,040 me up. So it's always like, OK, 149 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,600 something I had to tell myself, it's like, OK, we're going to do 150 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,240 this right now. But reality, do we have time to 151 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,360 complete the thing that we're about to start? 152 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,920 Like my ADHD brain is usually like, of course, we have all the 153 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,080 time in the world, even though technically we don't have any of 154 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,000 that time in the world to get it done. 155 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,120 But that's kind of for me, at least with the office space too, 156 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,520 where it's like, I don't think I've planned very often. 157 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,160 I kind of like know in my mind what I want to make happen. 158 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,720 And then the only way I can kind of do it is just like to start 159 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,120 doing it. But I know that that's not the 160 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,600 right way to do it. It's like it messes you back, it 161 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,440 messes you up. What's that old saying Jess, 162 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,600 where it's like planning ahead kind of saves you money in the 163 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,920 end, right? So instead of just like go go, 164 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,720 go, go and fixing all the problems later, like knowing 165 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,400 that you pre planned ahead of time saves you in the long run. 166 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,920 I'm totally opposite. I'm like, do it now, see what 167 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:35,760 happens later. Bye. 168 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,240 I guess it really depends on the situation. 169 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,800 A lot of time, like when it comes to for instance pre 170 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,360 planning videos, the scripting stage or writing out bullet 171 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,680 points, talking points or whatever is so bloody boring 172 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,800 that I'm just like no bias towards action. 173 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,960 We're just going to film and we're just going to stuff up our 174 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,880 words multiple times and record the same clip 7 times over 175 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,760 because you didn't get the inflection quite right on that 176 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,440 final saying or whatever. So in those situations, yeah 177 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,800 I'll dive straight in. But when it comes to things like 178 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,280 re cabling my desk and every time I'd I walk into my office, 179 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,240 I'd see the noodle mess of cables be like, oh, I hate that 180 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,840 like it, it hurts my soul to look at this. 181 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,160 But I don't have the perfect plan for how I want to do the 182 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:16,760 cabling yet. And I don't know what cables I 183 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,280 need and I don't know whether I know if those cables are going 184 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,240 to be the right type of cables. Like what if there's like a 185 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,360 better Ethernet cable and turns out there was a better Ethernet 186 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,280 cable and I needed to know this information. 187 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,640 And those are the kind of things that reinforce this idea of 188 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,360 like, Oh no, procrastination as a form of planning is totally 189 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:32,360 valid. You should do this. 190 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,520 You need all the information because you get the wrong thing, 191 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,880 you'll stuff it up in some way. This kind of like fear of 192 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,520 messing up is holding me back from actually getting started 193 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,560 with stuff. Another version of kind of 194 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:48,760 procrastination is like from planning, I guess is this idea 195 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,680 of looking for perfection in the plan before you start, whether 196 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:55,840 that be just in general, like, you know, need to knowing 197 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,680 everything, the stuff you need to do and whatever. 198 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,240 But more so the idea of putting things into my journal and 199 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,200 getting a layout that is going to work quote perfectly so that 200 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,040 then I can take perfect action. That is one that really used to 201 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,160 trip me up quite a lot. And it was reinforced by any 202 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,360 time I wouldn't put the time, effort, energy to making the 203 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,200 quote perfect layout. And then I get to the end, the 204 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,480 layout would be fugly and I'd be like, well, I'm not going to use 205 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,040 that. Good job on wasting your time, 206 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,640 you sucker. So you kind of have this like 207 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,360 reinforcing cumulative causation narrative going where it's like, 208 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,720 OK, I didn't put the effort in. I made a plan. 209 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,440 The plan sucked, so I didn't do the thing. 210 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,960 So now in future I need to make sure I put in excessive amounts 211 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,840 of time and like over plan the thing, over engineer the thing 212 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,800 to the point of oblivion so that then in theory it'll work 213 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,880 perfectly. And it always, always sucks when 214 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,160 you do all that and it doesn't work anyway. 215 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,120 It is one of those things where I do wonder sometimes same deal, 216 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,040 if I'm penciling things and I'm like, how much of this is really 217 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,600 worth it though? Like should I just go in with a 218 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,600 pencil or should I just go with a pen? 219 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,480 You know, we're like, how do I want to approach this? 220 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,240 Because sometimes it does feel a little repetitive if you're 221 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,400 building out like a whole spread in pencil and then you're just 222 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,880 going to go back over it with a marker again. 223 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,400 And that's where I feel like a lot of the times where I'm in 224 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,280 that like creative space and and I'm like, OK, well, I'm doing 225 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,120 this ahead of time. Like, you know, always, you 226 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,920 know, what does that measure twice been cut once, right? 227 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,120 This idea of just like getting it right before you go into it. 228 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:25,880 But here's the fun thing that I do. 229 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,600 I don't pay attention all the time, but I'm then going over 230 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,120 with a pen. This just happened several 231 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,080 times. Instead of a new bullet journal 232 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,600 setup, I just did, I like set up this whole grid and did it. 233 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,080 And I was like, and I went too far on my line and now it's 234 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,520 passing, it's connecting where it's not supposed to, even 235 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,680 though I penciled it in. It was all perfect when you did 236 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:45,200 it. And I think at this point of my 237 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,760 life, I've just kind of accepted that that's going to happen. 238 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,480 So a lot of my videos now I'm like, and here's how you fix a 239 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,600 mistake instantly because I heard that so much before. 240 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,320 And even in that video, people are like, oh, you know, I really 241 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,160 want to get started with my bullet journal. 242 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,840 I really want to set it up, but like, I'm so nervous about 243 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:02,600 making a mistake. And it was great because I was 244 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,600 like, well, you know, just go to my video. 245 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,480 You'll see like I made multiple mistakes inside of mine. 246 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,840 Like you just fix it and you keep moving forward. 247 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,040 So it's just one of those deals sometimes where it is. 248 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,040 It's so funny how, like, when I get into a thing, I'm pretty 249 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,000 good about just getting it done right. 250 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,440 Or again, if it has to take multiple days and I kind of know 251 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,680 it. But for me, it is so much more 252 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,280 about like that upfront planning and kind of getting ready to do 253 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,360 it, which is weird. But like, I have to plan to 254 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:28,800 plan, you know? Like, yeah. 255 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,760 But well, what if that plan doesn't work out that you're not 256 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,240 doing what you're supposed to be doing? 257 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,120 Yeah. Having to plan the plan, I 258 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,960 always feel silly saying like, OK, here's like me pre planning 259 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,720 my planner so that I can plan my plan so that I can go do my 260 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,080 plans. I'm like, well, yeah, but that's 261 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,320 like how I do it. I guess you kind of touched on 262 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,400 this and I think that this is a good segue, but that idea of, 263 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,760 you know, the fear of messing up in particular when it comes to 264 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,800 planning of journal layouts or like in your planner and such, 265 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,640 trying to get its structures right so that then you can in 266 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,920 theory take perfect action moving forward. 267 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,240 What would you see as some of the other reasons why planning 268 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,160 is sometimes used as procrastination or we get into 269 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,920 that kind of mind space of having to plan and plan and plan 270 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,560 and never going any further with that? 271 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,040 Well, I think a lot of the times we get really excited about a 272 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,200 new idea. You know, I think for myself 273 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,040 personally, be like a new tracker that I want to use for 274 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,720 something. All intentions. 275 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:24,600 We're all been here of making it work, filling it out every day, 276 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,120 every week, whatever that might be. 277 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,280 And for me, I think a lot about like, OK, what does this look 278 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:30,720 like? Does everything fit? 279 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,280 Am I covering all the topics, all the things that I want to 280 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,640 track on here? But then when you actually get 281 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,240 into it, you just kind of you're not as motivated. 282 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,440 I mean, I think it's not like dopamine hit of like, yeah, 283 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:42,960 we're set up a thing, we're going to do a thing, we're going 284 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:44,600 to make a change. This could be amazing. 285 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,040 But then when you actually go in to do it, or even if you ever 286 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,400 get there, you know, you're like, well, I'm going to start 287 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,400 that on Monday. Like, oh, I didn't get to it 288 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:53,360 this week. I'm going to start that on 289 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,200 Monday. It's like a diet or a workout or 290 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,680 anything else like that. Like we're always going to find 291 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:00,240 like a better time to get it done. 292 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:03,040 I thought I've shared this in the past, but I had set up a 293 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,360 workout tracker years and years ago. 294 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,680 I think it actually was probably the last ones I did because I 295 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:10,240 was so mad. But it was like just very easy 296 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,200 workout tracker. It was a whole calendar. 297 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,880 And if I went and I worked out that day and was active, it got 298 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,920 filled in with the blue pen. And then if I went and didn't do 299 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,400 it, it got filled in with a red pen. 300 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:22,080 And by the end of the month, every single day was red. 301 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,200 Like but it was like sad that I had to keep doing it in red. 302 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,960 But like for me, it was almost like sticking it to myself. 303 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,760 I was like, you son of a bitch, you have to fill this in every 304 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,880 day because you didn't do what you said you were going to do. 305 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,960 You can't just blow this off like you did your workout. 306 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:39,720 And I'll feel bad every single Red Square that you have to fill 307 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,520 in. But it's like, yeah, I completed 308 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,480 it, but I actually didn't do anything that month active for 309 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,560 that tracker. But after that, that was really 310 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,840 something that made me feel like, OK, this was just 311 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,800 performative. Like I wasn't actually holding 312 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,280 myself accountable for this, You know, I didn't really follow 313 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,080 through on it. There was there was nothing 314 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,120 there that made me feel guilty other than myself of doing it. 315 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,360 But it was definitely one of those those things where I was 316 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,760 just like, so pumped up about it and then it got into it and I 317 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,520 was like, no. Yeah, I think it's that kind of 318 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,160 like the possibilities of it, right? 319 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,640 Like that kind of like almost wishful thinking in a way. 320 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:14,080 It's like, oh, you know, I'm going to set up all these 321 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,320 structures in my journal, which is going to kind of, you know, 322 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,160 be aligned with this ideal future version of myself who 323 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,120 does all of these things. And I'm going to come back and 324 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,240 fill it in and feel so accomplished and yadda, yadda. 325 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,160 And I swear that like half the time I spend more effort setting 326 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,560 those things up than actually just going and doing the thing. 327 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,600 But I don't want to do the thing because then I won't have 328 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,600 anywhere to record that I did the thing. 329 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:34,880 And then it's like, it doesn't count. 330 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,360 It's like, you know, oh, you're actually official until you make 331 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,400 it Facebook official. You know, like when people used 332 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,480 to say those things back when we used Facebook. 333 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:47,120 But I find that another kind of reason that I for me personally, 334 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,720 when it comes to that procrastin planning and using planning as a 335 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,120 form of procrastination is the fear of making a choice, which 336 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,360 sounds really silly, but it's like once I get started, that's 337 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,000 like committing to something that's saying, yeah, this is the 338 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,000 way I'm going with it. I have sent myself down the path 339 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,920 and where I very much saw this was in planning my wedding and 340 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,000 in particular picking color palettes because there are so 341 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,600 many gorgeous color palettes. And as somebody who pretty much 342 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,160 intends on getting married once and being done with it, you 343 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,720 know, assuming the Vogel feels the same type deal, but it means 344 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:21,880 that once you make that choice of saying this is the colour 345 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,200 palette, I'm going with all of those other possible options 346 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,920 like the beautiful burnt orange and teal, which was so gorgeous. 347 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,560 Definitely not what I went with, but like it would have been a 348 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,920 vibe or all of those beautiful ones with like the sage greens 349 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,560 and super soft pink, like, oh, that would have been so 350 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,440 gorgeous. But again, I'm only getting 351 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,600 married once. Got to make a choice, get in and 352 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,600 do it. I find that setting a date for 353 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,040 these kind of things certainly helps. 354 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,240 Like, yeah, if you're going to have your wedding on this day, 355 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,480 you really need to know X weeks ahead of time what your palette 356 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,000 is so you girls can get her dresses and your florist can 357 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,920 grow the flowers and all those kind of things. 358 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,440 But actually getting to the point of setting a date took 359 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,520 like 8 years. So yeah, big procrastination in 360 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,800 that front. I mean, I've actively been 361 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,120 trying to work against this for a long time. 362 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,040 Something else that I do, I'm sure maybe others do too, is 363 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,160 this thing that like you can't get started with a page because 364 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,160 you haven't like set it up and I'll do this. 365 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,120 It's something as simple as like a header. 366 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,760 I'll be like, oh, this needs to be a collection page. 367 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,600 And I'm like, oh, but I can't start the ideation on this until 368 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,760 I make the header and I want to do a cool lettering font or I'm 369 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,640 not at home. This happens a lot when I go 370 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,000 into the office and I don't take all my materials with me. 371 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,760 I'm like, oh, this needs to be a collection page, but I can't 372 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,880 actually like get started on this page just yet because I 373 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,040 haven't decided what the header is going to look like. 374 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,520 And all my materials are at home. 375 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,000 So I've even like taken to like a scrap piece of paper almost 376 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,120 and like worked in there, put it in my journal, came home was 377 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,200 like, OK, now we have to transfer. 378 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,280 And then I was like, this was the dumbest thing ever. 379 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,480 Like Mark, give yourself like 3 or 4 boxes from the top. 380 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,080 You don't usually do like giant headers for these things and 381 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,280 just use it. Or sometimes I'll, I definitely 382 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,200 always have like a pencil and a pen and I'll just like pencil it 383 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,080 in kind of a little bit of where it is so that I can get started 384 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,839 in it. But that paralyzation or 385 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,760 whatever it is of just like making that decision or doing 386 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,240 that thing, but knowing that you have something else to do. 387 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,079 I mean, it's completely procrastinating like dark. 388 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,240 I mean, Mark, just get in there and start writing and and doing 389 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,160 what you need to do. It doesn't matter that there's 390 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,680 not a perfect header on that page right now that it that is 391 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,480 so minor compared to the work that's being done. 392 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,760 But there are so many times when I've certainly just put 393 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,440 something off because, like, I wasn't prepared or I didn't feel 394 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,520 like Paige was prepared to get started. 395 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,760 No, I completely understand that, especially for like our 396 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,840 decoration first planners or people who like to make the page 397 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,720 look nice and then populate it. I find this very much happens 398 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,040 anytime I'm using a setup that uses second line highlights and 399 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,320 I don't have my highlighting pen because I don't want to 400 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,640 highlight over the top of the text after the fact. 401 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,600 Because regardless of what the pen and paper combo says they're 402 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,600 going to do, it will smudge and it will bother me and then I 403 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,400 won't use the plan because it looks ugly. 404 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,240 So making sure that my layouts are set up in such a way that I 405 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,240 can just jot things down as I need them or going with a 406 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,440 decorative style that doesn't require that of me or something 407 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,840 like that. I'm very tempted for this year 408 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,360 to just like not do decorative planning. 409 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,040 I don't want to say it. And then like, you know, 410 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,920 completely 180, that'd be like, no, I'm going full maximalist. 411 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,800 I'm whipping out paints. I've decided I'm going to like 412 00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:25,280 chisel my plans into rocks and make art out of it or something 413 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,280 Like, no, we're not doing that. But I kind of feel like I've 414 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,240 gotten to a point where I have started to notice that the 415 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,840 decorative elements are starting to hold me back from getting my 416 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,800 plans done. And I think it's in part it's 417 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,520 just like I like a cohesive theme. 418 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,480 I know I enjoy that throughout each of my months or cycles or 419 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,640 whatnot. But the time, effort, and energy 420 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,520 spent trying to figure out what the theme should be so that I 421 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,600 can make the plans look nice, so that then I can put the plans in 422 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,320 so that then I can do the things that I'm planning. 423 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,280 Like it feels like an unnecessary amount of time, 424 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:56,880 effort, energy spent on that thing. 425 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,160 So I'm toying with the idea of going more minimal this year. 426 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:04,680 I'm so excited for you for this more like minimalistic approach 427 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,520 because it's where I've kind of spent a little bit of my time 428 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,200 recently. I actually was just thinking 429 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,520 about like all of the pens and everything that I have behind 430 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,440 me, not the fountain pens, all the regular like crafting pens 431 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,880 and markers and all of that. I was like, you know, I'm really 432 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,200 not using them as much anymore. And I was actually thinking 433 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,880 about like maybe downsizing or kind of down emigrating a bit 434 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,600 from it because I've kind of got to the point where I'm a little 435 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,840 bit more OK with just kind of using what I have in the moment 436 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,200 to do it. Like I was thinking about this 437 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,400 when I was setting up my new bullet journal and I was 438 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,240 flipping through my current 1 and I was like, you know what 439 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,320 Mark? Like back in the day, I used to 440 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,720 use just one pen and like the ruler, right? 441 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,720 And like that's my old bullet journals. 442 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,440 Like the pen is exactly the same on every single page. 443 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:52,080 Black Uniball Signal DX .38mm like crisp, looking good, 444 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,560 looking great. And then like over the past few 445 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,520 years, I've been using more and more fountain pens. 446 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,680 Like every single week I try to use a different pen just because 447 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,080 I have that many and I want to make sure that I'm using them. 448 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,040 And so every week essentially is, you know, a new. 449 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,280 Weight of the nib, it's a bold, a medium extra fine, whatever. 450 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,960 It's another color and it's especially, you know, difficult 451 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,120 when I go back to like a collection that's already set 452 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,760 and I need to add notes to it because it's in a different 453 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:22,400 color it I don't remember what pen it was necessarily or when I 454 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,480 did it. And so like mentally though, 455 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,680 I've been slowly allowing myself to let go of that a little bit. 456 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,880 Like I said, I've been working on it, especially with like 457 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,840 those header setups like yes, I want to go home. 458 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,840 I want it to match like this year I'm actually just using 459 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,520 like this little like stencil ruler, right? 460 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,360 So all of my headers in my new notebook are using these letters 461 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,880 1st and then I'm being going back over top of them with the 462 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,640 gel pen. I like the way it looks, but I 463 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,920 don't know that I'm always going to have this little ruler with 464 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,560 me, right? So I feel like I'm almost 465 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,480 setting myself up a little bit for failure or to do exactly 466 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,560 what I just said that I don't want to do anymore, which is 467 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,760 like wait to get home or wait to start, whatever before I put in 468 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,320 this little header before I get started on the page. 469 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,520 So it's like I like the way it looks. 470 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,200 I think like aesthetically it's like where I want to be. 471 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,880 I'm OK with it, but it's a great example. 472 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,040 Like I'm almost procrast of planning in a way ahead of time 473 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,720 just because I know that there's going to be a potential issue. 474 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,920 So like getting myself past that I think is going to be huge for 475 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,080 me. Or just knowing like a lot of my 476 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,960 pages and my headers, I've been keeping them the same. 477 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,040 Like it's two or three boxes from the top right? 478 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,520 And I'll just use that visually and say that's where the header 479 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,560 goes. So I'm like, I know it's almost 480 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,280 like mentally penciling it in, knowing that I'll come back to 481 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,680 it and it hasn't been holding me up as much. 482 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,400 But I just kind of know now that I've said it out loud and I put 483 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,520 it into the universe, like there's going to be a time when 484 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,720 this ruler is not with me and I'm going to need to do 485 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:43,680 something. I'm going to be like, Nope, 486 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,120 can't sit on the page yet. Doesn't have the stencil header. 487 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,720 I find that that's kind of similar for my style because 488 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,000 I've been using a lot of preprinted in the sense of like 489 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,240 I have been typing them up and preprinting them myself and 490 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,680 cutting them out and sticking them in and such. 491 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,720 Mainly because I just, I like the decoration. 492 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,720 I like the lettering styles that I'm using. 493 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,200 I like to lean into a theme that way. 494 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,720 It's a lot of fun, but the time, effort and energies spent trying 495 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,280 to rack my brain, think of every single possible header that I 496 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,280 might need for the entire of a month, two weeks before that 497 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,040 month even starts, sometimes even 3 weeks before the month 498 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,960 starts depending on video release schedules and whatever 499 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,760 it's, it's getting to a point where I'm like, this is silly. 500 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,240 It's just a little bit silly. You know, spending all of that 501 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,720 time, effort, energy, planning that kind of stuff rather than 502 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,920 doing the stuff that I'm using my planner for. 503 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,600 And given that, I do like to think of my planner as a purpose 504 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,440 first space. My purpose is getting things 505 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:39,800 done. And whether that be getting 506 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,040 things done in terms of like work or personal or goals or 507 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,120 whatever else. So if that is the purpose, is my 508 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,040 planning actually aligned with that or am I aligning it with 509 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,400 something else and it's all good? 510 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,160 If for your journal or planner or whatever, the first purpose 511 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,040 is as a creativity tool. And if you are doing things that 512 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,400 are creative, then there and you are enjoying it and you are 513 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,320 having fun and you are join Ling, it's all good. 514 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,080 But I think right now I am trying to learn less into the 515 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,840 creative aspects of my planning and more into the planning 516 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,760 aspects of my planning. Like actually getting things in 517 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,120 there written up in such a way that I know exactly what I need 518 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:16,600 to do. I can take action on it. 519 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,840 And not having these pre planning stages hold me back 520 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,040 from doing that thing. I guess, you know, in thinking 521 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,880 about that, how is it that you would identify whether you were 522 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,240 procrasta planning or whether the effort you're putting in is 523 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,800 actually necessary for the stuff you're trying to get done? 524 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,600 Yeah, I think a lot of it is just self-awareness. 525 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,280 There's a lot of times where I'm working, I'm doing something and 526 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,920 I'll just say it to myself. I'll be like, Mark, you are 527 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,800 avoiding doing this task, like let's just get it done. 528 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,600 And sometimes just saying that out loud and like calling myself 529 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,280 out in the moment. So I feel like a lot of like the 530 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,600 traits of what that looks like for me is moving things around 531 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,200 the desk multiple times, whether it's my notebook or the 532 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,040 materials or whatever it might be. 533 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,720 If this is like I'm looking at it and it kind of gives me not 534 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,840 fun feeling, I'm just like dope and now you sit over here until 535 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,480 I need to work over here, then you're going to move back over 536 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:07,720 here. It's just like moving that 537 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,160 around. I'll essentially just get sick 538 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,920 of it. So I feel like any type of 539 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,600 motion that's like repetitive and you and you know why you're 540 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,200 doing it. I think it's probably very few 541 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,800 people that are completely unaware of it, but like that's 542 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,760 one of the first things that I find I'll figure out for myself. 543 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,720 The other is just, I don't know, it's probably a very similar 544 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,120 feeling, but just knowing that like in my mind, I have an idea 545 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:32,120 of what I want to have happen and I don't have the things that 546 00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:34,680 I need to do that. So I have to almost talk myself 547 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,200 out of it. Like I was saying originally 548 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,840 when I started to use more fountain pens and things I like 549 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,720 always had like the same pen around because this is what my 550 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,360 headers were made with. So it was like, OK, no matter 551 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,320 where you are, like you have that pen, you can do that thing, 552 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,520 you're fine. But now, like I said before, I 553 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,640 don't always have that or I'm in the moment and I need to do it. 554 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:56,120 And so it's just, you know, one of those things where I'm like, 555 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,960 oh, not going to start. And I was like, Mark, just this 556 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,520 right in the header with the pen you already have. 557 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,560 You dial it up all you want now or later, but like just get in 558 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,040 there. So it is so much, it's just 559 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,960 self-awareness. I feel like we do it. 560 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,480 You just have to kind of like say, call yourself out on it. 561 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,240 That's what I do all the time, talking to myself probably more 562 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,480 often than I should. But most of the time it's like, 563 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,760 let's just get this thing done. Like let's stop procrastinating, 564 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,840 Let's stop doing that. And then my other side is like, 565 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,000 no, but it's more fun here thinking about the idea versus 566 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,240 doing it. No, very that. 567 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,880 I think that a lot of the time procrastination is just our 568 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,680 brain saving us from future pain. 569 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,440 It's like, Oh no, this is the fun, happy place where 570 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,400 everything is possible and we don't have to make hard 571 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,400 decisions and you don't have to do hard work. 572 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,720 But as soon as you actually get started on things like, no, 573 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,280 that's scary. I don't want to do that. 574 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,520 That sounds challenging. Let's go back to planning. 575 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,920 That was way more fun. Yeah, that's one of them. 576 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,400 I also feel like, and we've all done this too, you know, when 577 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,800 you're starting to like list out like your task list and you 578 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,000 don't like the way it looks, or I do this a lot too. 579 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,400 Sometimes I'm just like, oh, this is called daily logging, 580 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,080 but I'll do a bunch of tasks and you know, they're kind of 581 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,040 they're not done all in sequential order, right? 582 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,880 So they're all checked off. And so there's like open and 583 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,320 then done, done, open, open, done, done, done. 584 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,600 And then I'm like, well, I want to get rid of the ones that are 585 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,640 done. Like I'd well, now I want all of 586 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,120 my still to do's to be organized underneath each other. 587 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,880 And it feels repetitive sometimes to then like know, 588 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,040 write the next date and then relist all of them again, 589 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,560 because I can still see them. They're right next to where I'm 590 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,000 writing right now. But I just feel like sometimes 591 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,440 though, like that's needed to, to do that. 592 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,240 And so it kind of goes into the same effect, like if I'm not 593 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,520 working well inside of my planner or my journal to do 594 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,200 those tasks. Because in my mind, I'm like, 595 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,560 you have to rewrite this first and you don't have the materials 596 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,960 to do so. I think that that becomes 597 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,960 problematic. But like I also the same exact 598 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,880 time though look at it and say, well, we just talked about this. 599 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,800 But if this list looks really nice and it's really clean and 600 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,640 I'm really happy with the way that it looks, then I'm more 601 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,640 open to them taking on that task. 602 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,440 The problem is it just took me 15 minutes to rewrite this task 603 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,000 when I could have done the thing that was already on there using 604 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,840 that 15 minutes. You know, it's kind of like, 605 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,480 well, I'm hyping myself up. I'm prepping myself to do the 606 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,080 thing. And then it's like, yeah, but 607 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,160 you could just spend all that time just doing the thing and 608 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,600 then just crossing it off of the list that already exists. 609 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:14,760 Yeah. I guess it's kind of thinking 610 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,480 about like what's the ROI, what's the return on investment 611 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,960 of doing this planning kind of thing. 612 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,760 And I like to think about it in terms of if the return on 613 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,280 investment of doing the planning is going to be at least double 614 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,280 the effort I put in, then it's kind of worth it. 615 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,040 I mean, finding your happy places, it's completely up to 616 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,280 you or what not. But if I'm spending, you know, 617 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,320 let's let's go with a high estimate an hour. 618 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,360 If I'm spending an hour setting up a layout, am I going to get 619 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,240 at least two hours of productivity or like purpose out 620 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,880 of this thing? You know, obviously very much 621 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,920 depends on what kind of layout you're making. 622 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,360 You know, if I'm going to the effort to set up a planning 623 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:54,160 layout of like planning out my entire quarter in terms of goal 624 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,120 action steps and stuff, that's a quarter worth of work that I am 625 00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,760 planning out for myself. That is going to be a big return 626 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,960 on investment. If I'm planning out, like, I 627 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,560 don't know, spending an hour doing a workout plan and I never 628 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,480 end up doing that workout. I, I wasted an hour. 629 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,600 I, I, you know, I don't want to say wasted, but like, I kind of 630 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,920 wasted an hour. You know, you put all of that 631 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,200 energy into just making the plan and then never got to the point 632 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,040 where you're like, oh, the plan isn't good enough. 633 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,280 I don't know if this is going to work, yada, yada type thing. 634 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,320 And thus never took action. It was a waste of time. 635 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,200 And it's hard. You can't necessarily get that 636 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,080 back either. I feel like so much of this is 637 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,920 just learning though from your mistakes. 638 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,400 You know, if you're going to go and set that all up and do all 639 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,160 of that, like you said, what's that ROI? 640 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,000 Like I did all of these things, great, I fill it out or 641 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,880 whatever. But then again, what am I doing 642 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,840 with that information after it's done? 643 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,920 We've talked about that a lot with like that performative 644 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,160 planning part. It's like, okay, I set up this 645 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,280 tracker, I'm going to do all of this, you know, are you actually 646 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,320 going to make a change? Like if say you set up like a 647 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,080 sleep tracker for yourself and at the end of your month your 648 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,800 data is showing like, yeah, you're not going to bed early, 649 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,200 you're getting uneasy sleep and it's not well for you. 650 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,720 Like, yeah, but is that all day? I know. 651 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,400 But you know, even before you get started, it's almost like a 652 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,400 promise to yourself, you know, like, are we just trying to see 653 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,560 if we're paying attention to it or whatever? 654 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,280 Or is it strictly just performative to take a picture 655 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,040 for Instagram or make this on YouTube content? 656 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,120 Or if this data comes back and shows me one way or the other, 657 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,560 will I actually take action like the same way you would do if you 658 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,240 went to a doctor? It's like, hey, you maybe have 659 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,240 some elevated cholesterol and like, OK, you're going to follow 660 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,480 this diet and you're going to exercise two to three times a 661 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,840 week. And when you come back to me in 662 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,000 six weeks, we'll check again. And so I feel like, you know, in 663 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,320 that promise to both your physician and yourself, you're 664 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,200 like, OK, if I don't do those things, then I'm going to have 665 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,960 to start taking, you know, daily pill for cholesterol or whatever 666 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,320 it is. Or if I do make those changes, 667 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,080 then that's a positive life change and I won't have to then 668 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,480 take that medicine. This is a very personal story 669 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,760 I'm sharing with you right now because it's exactly what 670 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,720 happened to me. But that's an example where I 671 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,760 was like, you are going to do this because at the end of the 672 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,360 day, you're going to have to make a decision on what's 673 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,360 happening here. Now, I didn't set up a tracker 674 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,560 for it or do any of that. I just knew I don't want to have 675 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,920 to take a medicine every single day for something like this that 676 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,120 that I can solve for. But if I did set up a tracker 677 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,200 for it, who the hell knows if I would have actually used it or 678 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,960 not. But the idea is I did what I had 679 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,040 to do and after that time, the decision was made. 680 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,640 Nope, you're good. You made the positive 681 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,240 improvements for yourself to do that. 682 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,240 And if it would have gone the other way, then I would have had 683 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,520 to make that other decision. So I think that maybe that's a 684 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,920 part of it as well of like maybe I'm not ready to make that 685 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,560 decision. And so the idea of spending time 686 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,160 and thinking about the layout and what I would want to do is a 687 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,200 really great, you know, procrastination strategy to not 688 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,920 have to start to do the thing that eventually you'd have to 689 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,680 make a decision on. So it could be a part of it. 690 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,440 Again, like I said, I'm just an area I'm very much trying to 691 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,640 work on for myself because I know that it's problematic and 692 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,040 it's just like the same thing as anything. 693 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,040 I'm aware of it, you know, So that's why I like to call myself 694 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,200 out often because I'm just like, you know what you're doing right 695 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,720 now, Mark? Like fix it, do the right thing. 696 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,160 Yeah, I think that another tool that I kind of used to determine 697 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,840 whether I am planning in the form of procrastination, like if 698 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,640 I'm using that as a tool to avoid taking action, is just 699 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,120 checking in with myself is like, do I know my next concrete step? 700 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,560 Because if I know my next concrete step, it's just like, 701 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,200 cool, go do that. Like, like stop planning, you 702 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,200 know, the next thing you need to do, go do that thing. 703 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,840 So if we're thinking about it in terms of like, I don't know, a 704 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,480 health and fitness goal or whatever, and like, you know, 705 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,800 maybe you want to start an exercise program or something 706 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,040 like that, okay, what is your next concrete step? 707 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,000 Maybe your next concrete step is I do not have shoes that I can 708 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,200 do this in. I need to go and acquire shoes. 709 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,560 So it's like, okay, cool. You need to figure out where 710 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,960 you're going to get them when you're going to get them. 711 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,760 Looking on your calendar now you're planning is actually 712 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,240 going to be a lot more helpful, not just making the layout look 713 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,720 nice or, you know, getting stuck in that research stage. 714 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,320 Because that's another question I asked myself. 715 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,720 Like, am I using research as an avoidance tactic? 716 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,480 Like am I using this to stop myself from having to actually 717 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,840 do anything? Because getting stuck in the 718 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,680 research stage, as I said, that is where all good goals go to 719 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,920 die, I swear. Yeah, it's definitely one of 720 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,200 those things where you are thinking through it and you're 721 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,160 like, OK, what is the thing here that I'm doing? 722 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,520 You know, like you said, like the why, why am I doing this? 723 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,320 Am I ready to go? Am I ready to do a thing? 724 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,920 There's just so much that goes into it, you know, and I think 725 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,600 that's a really big part. I do also though, think to say 726 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,400 like almost like the opposite. Like I guess this is the the 727 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,680 Gray area between this topic is like there is planning for the 728 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,200 thing though that is really important that you should do. 729 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,600 You know, I think about that every week when I set up my 730 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,760 weekly and I kind of go through my calendars and I write things 731 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,400 down. And sometimes I would ask myself 732 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,080 and be like, is this really worth it? 733 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,760 Like just get it and start doing the things that you want to do. 734 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,440 Like why do you have to sit down and do it? 735 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,240 But I found for myself that that long term effect outweighs the 736 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,360 other. By doing that and sitting down 737 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,440 and looking through all the things and writing them down, I 738 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,440 do feel more prepared to take on the week. 739 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,480 I'm and more or less prone to miss things because I've almost 740 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,440 kind of written it twice in a way it's digitally in one spot, 741 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,400 but writing it down on my calendar for me personally helps 742 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,920 me. I know in previous episodes we 743 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,280 talked about like repetition kind of being the anti direction 744 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,760 of like being productive. But for me that repetition 745 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,880 writing, rewriting helps me out a lot. 746 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,640 But I look at it the same way, you know, planning out your 747 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,240 spread before you actually go in there, I think is smart. 748 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,960 But it's like, but how much time are you spending on that? 749 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,880 And like something I've done is I might not draw in every single 750 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,840 line or write down every single number, but like write down the 751 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,640 important ones. And then that way I feel less 752 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,680 like I'm wasting space doing it twice. 753 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,480 But at least I know that I'm somewhat prepared to go into it 754 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,240 when I am ready to kind of put the pen to paper versus the 755 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:51,680 pencil. No, very fair. 756 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,960 I guess it's almost like that idea of over planning as a form 757 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,200 of procrastination. Like you know, once you get to 758 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,640 your MVP, you're like minimum viable plan or whatnot. 759 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,520 Then everything extra that you do on top of that that just 760 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,480 holds you back from taking the action you need to. 761 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,360 That's probably where the issue is because I am very much like, 762 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,480 I don't know afoot in both problems because I initially 763 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,600 when it comes to feeling busy or feeling like I've got a lot to 764 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,040 do or whatnot, I have this little voice in the back of my 765 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,520 head. It's rebel brain just being 766 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,280 like, no, you're not allowed to plan because you know what you 767 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,679 need to do. Just go do the thing. 768 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,920 But if I spent the 5 or 10 minutes planning out the work 769 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,639 that I had to do for the day or week, then I'm going to be so 770 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:31,080 much more effective during that day or week. 771 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,159 Like the ROI on that is huge compared to the 5-10 minutes it 772 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:37,280 took to just write down what I needed to get done. 773 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,560 But because I'm so like, I've no worried about the idea year of 774 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,040 using planning as a form of procrastination and not getting 775 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,800 this stuff done. It's like, Nope, you can't 776 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,520 possibly write down a plan. Do not even think about picking 777 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,719 up a pen and writing out what you need to do because in theory 778 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,960 you know what you need to do. So just go do the thing. 779 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,199 No, it's, it's a hard thing to do sometimes to like kick 780 00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:58,440 yourself in the butt to do it. But like, I mean, we've both 781 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,680 kind of said it now. I think that awareness is really 782 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,680 important. You mentioned something earlier 783 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,440 and I think this might be a good way to like transition into like 784 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,640 we've talked about like when you know it's not helpful, but like 785 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,600 when do you know that it actually is helping you? 786 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,880 Like I kind of give that example of like I know that by working 787 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,960 on like a Sunday ahead of my week and kind of filling in my 788 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:18,440 pre week that that's helpful for you. 789 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,320 Do you have anything for yourself where you're like the 790 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,040 opposite, where Rebel Brain is like, we're doing this thing 791 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,720 because we know that it's helping us, Jess. 792 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,600 Yeah, I think that definitely when it comes to goal action 793 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,360 plans, that is a type of planning that I know is always 794 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,840 going to have pay off, mainly because I'm not so much planning 795 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,760 in terms of, you know, pre planning a structure or a layout 796 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,040 or whatever. I use the same layout and 797 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,240 structure for every single one of them because I know that 798 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,840 works, which means that all of the effort that I'm putting into 799 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,720 that, all of the stuff that I'm writing down there, I know it's 800 00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:50,400 going to have pay off. So that's one that I'm always 801 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,160 willing to spend the time on because I know the time is being 802 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,000 spent. Well when it comes to designing 803 00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,760 new layouts and such that there's like a kind of threshold 804 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,920 like there is up until a point it's good, good planning. 805 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,280 And then after that it's like, OK, now you're over planning and 806 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,360 it's kind of pointless. But when it comes to setting up 807 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,520 new layouts or new structures in my my journal that to tackle a 808 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,800 particular project or pain point or anything like that, there is 809 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,520 going to be a certain amount of time I need to do the pre 810 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,760 planning stages to make sure that that layout has the best 811 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,600 chance of being successful for me or actually helping me to do 812 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,680 the things that I want to do. So usually that's kind of 813 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,680 thinking about, OK, well, what's the purpose? 814 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,480 Purpose first kind of a thing. What do I want it to do for me? 815 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,680 What do I want to help with? What do I want to get out of 816 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,480 this type of a thing? Once I know that, once I'm clear 817 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,160 on that, what structures are going to most easily help me do 818 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,520 that thing? What structures should I avoid 819 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,520 because of my kind of previous tendencies that I have shown, 820 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,320 like not setting up monthly trackers because you're not 821 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,680 going to go back and fill them in. 822 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,360 Maybe putting it on a weekly structure or something because 823 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,000 that's more aligned with how I like to plan or whatnot. 824 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,280 So the effort spent in that kind of pre planning stage, I would 825 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,120 consider to just be planning, not over planning. 826 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,360 I think the over planning comes in where it's like, oh, but 827 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,560 where should I put this sticker? I'm not coming for your 828 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,200 stickers, I'm not coming for your decoration. 829 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,880 It's just how I kind of see myself as over planning and 830 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,680 using that as a procrastination tool. 831 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:22,080 No, I mean, it absolutely is. I mean, that's just an excuse 832 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,240 that we give ourselves. Like, well, I can't start this 833 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:27,120 spread because what if I want to write or what if I do write 834 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:28,280 there? But that's where I wanted to put 835 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,800 that sticker or put that stamp or wherever. 836 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,200 And I feel like that's where that pre planning can be 837 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,040 helpful. Again, you're not planning to 838 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,640 procrastinate of getting started, but like thinking ahead 839 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,560 that step and actually being thoughtful about it is much more 840 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,240 helpful because if you do it the other way, like we kind of were 841 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:45,440 just kind of going and talking about, it's like, well, if I'm 842 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,560 not doing those things and I just go right in, but then I do 843 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,240 want to add that later and it doesn't fit, then I'm just mad 844 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:53,640 at myself. It's not, you know, itching the 845 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,320 itch or scratching the itch. You know, that's in my brain of 846 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,040 like, we want to make how to make that happen. 847 00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,920 So I think that is kind of an important part. 848 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,920 I mean, the other way to go with that is to say like, well, I'm 849 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,000 just going to make my life a lot easier and I'm going to simplify 850 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,400 it. Or something that I'll do 851 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,240 sometimes is I'll just create like a bounding box for myself 852 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,920 and be like, OK, this is the space where you're going to 853 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,640 write this. So like in that example, if 854 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,640 you're like, not sure where you want to put that sticker or do 855 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,680 whatever with it, I'll just like block out a part of my page 856 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,840 while I'm going to write. And that way it's like, OK, 857 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,320 well, all the space around it is for whatever creativity in this 858 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,400 that you want to do later. It's like, yes, I want to add a 859 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,800 drop shadow to that, but I don't have my marker on me right now. 860 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,440 So it's like let's bound this and like visually or sometimes 861 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,840 it came with pencils. It's going to mark it out and 862 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,840 move on so that we can come back to this later. 863 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,800 Sometimes I do come back to it later, sometimes I don't come 864 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,080 back to it later. But the idea is that I didn't 865 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,160 hold myself up or stop myself for continuing my work. 866 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,920 I am in a way really kind of pre planning that page for that 867 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,160 material or that thing before I actually hit it. 868 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,480 You know, I don't know, maybe everyone's a bit different too. 869 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,960 But like I for the most part, typically know like the general 870 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,800 sizes of a lot of the stationary items that I have stamps and 871 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,960 stuff like that where a lot of times I give myself more space 872 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,280 than I actually need. And sometimes it looks weird, 873 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:12,080 but I'll kind of say like, oh, I know the stamp that I want to 874 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,720 use here and it's, you know, no bigger than this. 875 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:17,400 So I'm just going to leave that space there for myself. 876 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,280 And at least again, I'm not stopping myself from doing 877 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,880 anything. It's just like, keep it along, 878 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,320 you'll come back if you do it. If not, no loss, no foul. 879 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,120 Yeah, no, I think that another way that I try and avoid the 880 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,440 over planning procrastination through planning type deal is 881 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,000 giving myself a time restriction on the amount of time I give 882 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,120 myself for the planning stage. Because especially, especially 883 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,240 research, especially research as a form of planning. 884 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,960 Like if that is left just unchecked and Oh yeah, you can 885 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,760 use as much time as you need, then I will just need all the 886 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,720 time. All the time is what I need. 887 00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:54,480 And again, This is why why we waited so long to get married is 888 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,680 just couldn't make a choice because she didn't give herself 889 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,720 any deadlines type of a deal. But even if it's just, you know, 890 00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:02,440 planning in the sense of setting up for your week or pre planning 891 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,320 your week or whatnot to kind of avoid over engineering 892 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,640 everything and planning down to the minute details because. 893 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,160 Secondary thought on this one. I'll get to it in a second. 894 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,880 But if you just give yourself a set amount of time, that's a 895 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,760 reasonable amount of time for yourself, something that is 896 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,640 going to be sufficient to get the stuff in that you need to or 897 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,400 whatnot. Then oftentimes you are going to 898 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,200 be more focused in how you use that time because you've given 899 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,560 yourself a restriction and you'll get to the end of it 900 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,800 feeling more satisfied. Otherwise you get into this kind 901 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,680 of point of like hyper fixating on every single tiny my new 902 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,600 detail and like, oh, but what if I like, you know, moved this up 903 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,520 slightly? Or what if I had to reposition 904 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,680 this over here and you're repositioning all this stuff on 905 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,040 the page and not actually getting any of the stuff that 906 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,760 you want to done. The secondary thought though, 907 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,400 with that idea of over planning things down to the my new 908 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,000 details and whatever else is that oftentimes if we try and 909 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,800 plan out the entire journey or the entire road map of if we 910 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,440 think about in terms of like a goal or project, oftentimes one, 911 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,320 you don't know what you don't know. 912 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,360 So there's a good likelihood that you're going to get 913 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,400 started, learn more information about what actually needs to be 914 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,960 done and the plan is just going to change from that. 915 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,040 Or two, our predictions of what's going to happen in the 916 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,600 future, like we don't have crystal balls. 917 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,200 Typically speaking, what we plan for or think is going to happen 918 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,640 or the timeline of events that we think we're going to be able 919 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,880 to follow through on doesn't actually align with reality. 920 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,440 So you spend all this time, effort, energy putting into the 921 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,520 perfect plan, really scaffolding out every single minute detail 922 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,040 of what has to happen. And then once you get started, 923 00:41:37,240 --> 00:41:40,840 either you learn more and that plan doesn't work or things just 924 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,840 change and that plan doesn't work and you don't want to put 925 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,360 that effort and energy in and then have it wasted. 926 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,320 Whereas if you had of just made, I know, a very small concrete 927 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,480 plan of the next couple of steps you need to do and then gotten 928 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,560 underway with those, you'd have more insight, you'd know better 929 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,280 about what needs to be done and then you can plan the next few 930 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:01,200 steps. Do those and then plan the next 931 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,080 ones and kind of just go around that cycle. 932 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:07,080 A more kind of iterative building of a plan rather than 933 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,080 trying to over plan at the start. 934 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,800 Procrastinate getting started and then when you finally get 935 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,160 started it's like cool and this doesn't even work. 936 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,000 I think that's a really good point, Jess. 937 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,320 So I think this is the perfect time to ask the planner pals 938 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,160 about their opinions on this one. 939 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:21,760 And it can go two way planner pals. 940 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,920 This can either be examples like we've talked about today of like 941 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,440 things that you do that again for the awareness standpoint 942 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,560 that you know is, you know, planning for productivity, but 943 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,400 like with the thoughts of procrastination in there. 944 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:39,280 And I would also love to know like what you say to yourself to 945 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,840 get yourself out of that space. So if you are there with us, you 946 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,240 are aware of it or you catch yourself doing it, you know, 947 00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:48,160 what do you do to kind of get yourself out of there and 948 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,720 motivate yourself? We would love to hear from you. 949 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:53,800 You can, of course, drop a comment inside of the video if 950 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,360 you're watching over on YouTube, you can always e-mail 951 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:00,320 usplannerpalspodcast@gmail.com. And over on social media too. 952 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:01,760 We love to chat with you over there. 953 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,200 I love when the planner pals hit us up in all those spaces 954 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,640 because it's just like a constant conversation and I know 955 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,400 that they're listening, they're watching and we're talking about 956 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,080 these things and it's just super fun and I absolutely love it so 957 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,080 much because we all do it. I think that's what we really 958 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,120 come to understand. Like, it might look a little bit 959 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,200 different for everybody, but we're all there with you. 960 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:21,760 You're not alone. Yeah, definitely. 961 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,600 I would love to hear about, like, how you know that you're 962 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,120 procrastinating through planning, how you get yourself 963 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:28,880 out of it. I'm gonna, like, steal all your 964 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,520 tactics, especially because, as I said, I've got a foot in both 965 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:33,680 problems. I don't know. 966 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:34,800 You're not allowed to plan 'cause you're gonna 967 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,120 procrastinate or know the plan isn't perfect and we need to 968 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,400 continue with the research stage. 969 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,520 Very eager to hear your thoughts, Planner fouls. 970 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,360 But as always, thanks for watching.