1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,280 Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. 2 00:00:02,280 --> 00:00:06,760 I am super excited because friend of the pod who gosh, I 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:08,720 don't know when the last time we did a pod was a couple years 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,920 ago, a couple years ago. Balaji Srinivasan is here in 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,440 Singapore and I'm in Singapore. I'm a little bit jet lagged, but 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,200 you're a great podcast guest because you got a lot of ideas. 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:29,160 And so I got to go visit you in Malaysia, just north of 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,000 Singapore, about 45 minutes. Just slightly West. 9 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:38,560 Slightly West of Singapore and you have started the network 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,720 school, the network state, all the stuff you've been talking 11 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,600 about for years. There's now a there there. 12 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:51,400 Six months ago, you found a place where there are apartment 13 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,080 buildings and space that is, I guess relatively cheap and 14 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,800 available. And you've got your fan base of 15 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:05,120 tech Bros from around the world and ladies joining you to build 16 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,960 what, what is the vision here for people who've heard of 17 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:11,480 Network State Network School and, and this sort of project 18 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,800 you're working on, which seems to be your life's work, what 19 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,880 exactly are you building? So network school is the first 20 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:22,440 node of a network society where it serves several purposes. 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,120 But you know, the United States was started actually not just 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,440 with the Massachusetts Bay Colony, but with Harvard. 23 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,760 It was like literally a single room schoolhouse when it 24 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,680 started, right? And the Midwest, the land grant 25 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,280 colleges, like, you know, Texas A&M was like agricultural and 26 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,040 mechanical. And so that was meant to build 27 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,880 up the Midwest. Like, so you had a college and a 28 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:44,600 town kind of, you know, side by side. 29 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,560 You train the engineers and the humanists to help build the 30 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,040 society. And of course, the Bay Area, 31 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,160 Stanford and Berkeley helped build Silicon Valley, right? 32 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,360 So there are three examples in the American context where a 33 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,320 university and a town and a society kind of all, you know, 34 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,560 went together, right? And so that's what we're doing. 35 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,039 We are building a society ourselves, we're building A star 36 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:10,280 society that's also a template for other * societies. 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,680 And the way I think about it is this is the third type of thing. 38 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,760 Internet company, Internet currency and now Internet 39 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:18,160 community. If you go to likens.com, that's 40 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:19,880 you can see what we're doing. If you go to NS pretty. 41 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,280 Good domain name NS dot. Comns.com network state, so 42 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,240 right, so it's network school, but it also stands of course for 43 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,440 network state and network states plural, right? 44 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,920 And that's, that's important. So we have if you go to ns.com 45 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:33,720 dashboard, right front slash dashboard, you'll see more than 46 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,640 100 star societies around the world. 47 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:39,200 And the reason for this is we have these online communities 48 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,120 people sense if you're watching this, you're spending a lot of 49 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,200 time online, right. Like your, your definition. 50 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:44,360 Yeah, by definition that's right. 51 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,320 And so all our transactions are online, all our all our 52 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,200 communications are online, but many of our friends are online 53 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,200 and we don't see them in person, but we'd like to do that right. 54 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,920 So bringing those online communities together in person 55 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:57,040 actually has a physical network effect. 56 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,520 I mean, duh, yes, but also not duh right. 57 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,360 So we've unbundled the world onto the Internet and 58 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,640 everybody's alone at home. Now we rebundle the world into 59 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:07,480 the physical world. And when you do this, suddenly 60 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:08,800 you actually solve a lot of problems. 61 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,800 You actually, you reinvigorate democracy because when people 62 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,880 vote with their feet and move to a location, now look at, for 63 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,000 example, Starbase, right? Starbase, Texas, which just 64 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,640 incorporated Elon's new thing, right? 65 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,960 Yeah, where Starbase is located. Decided to take that town and 66 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,640 rename it Starbase and the people who are engineers at 67 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:32,560 SpaceX voted as well as some of the locals to create a new city 68 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:33,920 or town. New city or town? 69 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,880 And they won 97% of the vote, right? 70 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,960 97.7%, OK. And it was like 212 to six or 71 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,040 something like that, right? And the thing about this is that 72 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,160 is actually reinvigorating democracy. 73 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,560 It's Internet democracy because you're voting with your feet to 74 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,120 move to Starbase. You're voting with your wallet 75 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,960 to help build up this community, and then you're voting with your 76 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,640 ballot to ratify what you just did. 77 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,360 You're combining all three. You have skin in the game 78 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,080 because you actually move physically, You're physically 79 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,640 there, you're putting capital in. 80 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,520 And then as a consequence that you're also voting to to build 81 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:06,600 something. And so it's something you have a 82 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,520 lot of alignment in the community, right? 83 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,640 And that aspect of the frontier and the physical world, 84 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:14,720 obviously that built America, right? 85 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,200 A big part of what built America is you had all these people from 86 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,240 the old world who came out and actually there's a, you know, in 87 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,400 the mid 1800s, people would just, if they didn't like it on 88 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,800 the East Coast, they would go further in and they just build 89 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,040 their own society, right? And even the earliest Americans, 90 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:31,400 Americans, those were, you know, the European colonists and they 91 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,680 set up the Massachusetts Bay Colony, the Virginia colony. 92 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,640 The whole point was that you had a new jurisdiction to do things. 93 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,840 Now, of course, people say, oh, the Native Americans were there. 94 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,680 That's true. But in many ways they were war 95 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,960 like. And so these new tribes came in. 96 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:46,760 So you had N Native American tribes. 97 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,920 Now you have N + 1 N plus 2N plus three. 98 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,040 They all slugged it out. And actually the Native 99 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,400 Americans were like brave warriors that lost battles. 100 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,240 But you know, for example, in Mongolia, they make statues to 101 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,840 Genghis Khan and so and they should make statues to Sitting 102 00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:01,720 Bull and all of these, you know, kinds of quarters. 103 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,920 But leaving that aside, that's actually like a war that was 104 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,920 lost, a war that was won. That just happens all around the 105 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:08,080 world. Nobody has controlled any 106 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,360 territory forever. And so ideally, though, you want 107 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,360 to be able to do that today without any wars, without any 108 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:14,720 conflict, right? How do you do it without any 109 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,800 conflict? Because everybody thinks all the 110 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,600 land is taken, but it's actually not there's. 111 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,720 All kinds of, there's all kinds of spaces around the world and 112 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,760 when people see cheap space, plus they're nomads and they're 113 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,840 digital nomads, they have a high salary, a low cost of living, 114 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:33,200 which means more opportunity. And if you put like minded 115 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,120 people together, now you've got a bunch of people who are not 116 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,600 under economic pressure to live in the Bay Area, which we both 117 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,160 saw. What that did to people, it made 118 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,240 people miserable and their entire lives were filled with 119 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,880 this anxiety of not being able to keep up with other people. 120 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,400 And even the people who were supposedly keeping up felt like 121 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:54,120 they were under massive pressure to spend $100,000 a month on a 122 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,840 crazy lifestyle. And all the venture money that 123 00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:02,040 we were deploying into companies was going to $4000 a month in 124 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,280 rent for a developer to have a one or two-bedroom. 125 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,520 It was insane. And what I saw when I came to 126 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,480 who you know the the network state network school. 127 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,440 This is network school. This is the network school. 128 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,480 In the network school, you have these buildings that were built 129 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,120 and not being utilized, and there's a whole back story 130 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,160 there, but it's not important. You found this incredible 131 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,080 opportunity and people can go live there for $1500 a month. 132 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:31,200 All in. All in food, gym, exercise and 133 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,480 their apartment and then be part of a community. 134 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,240 So as Paul Graham would talk about that whole like ramen 135 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,920 break even, you know, ramen funded. 136 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,880 It actually exists here. And there were 150 people there 137 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:48,120 all grinding on a Saturday. And so these people are coming 138 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,360 from 100 different countries to hang out with each other and go 139 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,440 to talks to learn to build what what, what is their motivation? 140 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,120 Because I understand your motivation. 141 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,280 You think there's a new mode of society, a new mode of 142 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:02,760 governance. We have other people in our 143 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,800 industry who believe in this. Peter Thiel's done seasteading. 144 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,120 Obviously, Elon is doing this town in Texas, and people move 145 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:10,800 to Texas because there's less regulation. 146 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,880 So I understand your motivation and other people's motivation 147 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,160 create new scientists higher function, but the individual's 148 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:18,200 coming. Great question. 149 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,720 Get me into their mindset. So several different think of 150 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,120 this as kind of like early cryptocurrency had various 151 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,160 different kinds of people that all came together and. 152 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,640 There's a wack pack of people. A lot of different people there. 153 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,400 There were people, Well, yes, but but successful. 154 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,360 Libertarian. Technical Anarchist. 155 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:37,160 Exactly. That's right. 156 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:38,960 So some people were ideological, right? 157 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,480 Some people just were in it for the tech, right. 158 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,960 Some people thought, OK, this could be very valuable someday, 159 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,200 right. Business opportunity. 160 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,200 Yeah, that's right. And, you know, there's a mix of 161 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:49,960 different types of things for some people came just because 162 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,160 it's cool, right? Yeah, weird, weird, cool, 163 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:52,680 etcetera. Right. 164 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,360 And so today, for example, at network school, what kinds of 165 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,360 people do we have? So we have those people first 166 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,360 of, you know, like maybe the, the number one demographic are 167 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,960 those folks who are remote workers and who often can't get 168 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,120 a visa into the West. So these are people can't or 169 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,520 won't don't want to go, right? They think it's over and so on 170 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,440 and so forth. But they're, they're Internet 171 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,680 first people, right? So that's how it express our 172 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,960 ideology, Internet first. So obviously I'm, I'm friendly 173 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,480 to, you know, people in the US and I'm friendly to many people 174 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:24,800 who are conservatives and so on and so forth. 175 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,760 But America's only 4% of the world and red America is only 2% 176 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,680 of the world, right? But if you say Internet first, 177 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,280 you include many of those people. 178 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:37,720 And you also say, hey, if you're Canadian, Australian, you know, 179 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:39,919 from the New Zealand, UK, that's this term Kanzuk. 180 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:43,120 If you're Indian, if you're European, Japanese or American, 181 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:45,800 the Internet is where you're all equal. 182 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:47,480 All nodes are equal in the Internet. 183 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,760 You can have the same monetary policy, you can have the same 184 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,280 contract law, smart contract law, you can have the same 185 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,680 transaction certification. Basically what the the 186 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:58,440 blockchain represents is not rule of law, which is breaking 187 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,560 down in some ways with Delaware and all the crazy things in the 188 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,920 US, but it's rule of code. So everybody's a peer here, 189 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,280 right? So, you know, The thing is a lot 190 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,440 of the sort of progressive values of, you know, equality, 191 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,760 democracy, science, media, I actually believe in those things 192 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,880 just on the recent corrupted versions. 193 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,040 Got it. So the people who are coming, 194 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,480 their motivation is to be around like minded people. 195 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:22,680 Like minded people that's right and they. 196 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:26,840 Want to build companies or build a life, So right, so meet 197 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,360 people, find a mate. What what's the motivation when 198 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,880 you talk to them 'cause it's only been six months, yes, but 199 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,480 you've got hundreds of people and yet thousands apply. 200 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,600 So yes, it struck a nerve. It struck a nerve. 201 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,080 That's right. So I think. 202 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,400 This is something where people want to build communities in the 203 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,800 physical world. We spent so much time online, we 204 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,520 want to build things offline, right? 205 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,240 So some of them are coming because they're remote workers 206 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:51,920 and they're tired of being by themselves. 207 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:53,000 They want to be with the community, right? 208 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,520 Got it. So it's alone or with people who 209 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,160 are also remote workers. And we've seen that this nomadic 210 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,960 lifestyle there was like an kind of different Airbnb type 211 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,320 startups and office sharing startups that try to organize 212 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:06,680 these people. But you've got such a big 213 00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:09,880 profile socially and with the crypto community that you can 214 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,520 kind of be a beacon or a lighthouse today. 215 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,760 And I'm just a shilling point, you know, the the purpose is 216 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,960 crucially to this is just like the first one of these. 217 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,440 And I fund vegan ones and I fund carnivore ones. 218 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,840 I fund Hindu, you know, sharp societies and Christian ones and 219 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,880 Jewish ones, all of these different kinds. 220 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,960 There's there's some in Brazil, there's some in, you know, 221 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,720 Honduras, there's some in Switzerland. 222 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,960 And so it's of all different kinds of sharp societies. 223 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,080 That's quote true diversity, right? 224 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,600 Many different kinds of things. There's like Sanskrit immersion, 225 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,560 Latin immersion, many different kinds of sharp societies have a 226 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:43,920 different thesis on what would be a cool kind of of community 227 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,440 to build. And you'll see where they work. 228 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,000 It's again, just like a tech company. 229 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,920 You know, if we thought about early acts or early Twitter, it 230 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,120 seemed like the silliest thing in the world. 231 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,440 Why would anybody want to treat their breakfast? 232 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:53,760 But it became really important, right? 233 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,440 And so in the same way, there's many different concepts of what 234 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:57,360 a startup society is. OK. 235 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,240 So just to answer your question also again, A, remote workers, 236 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,920 B, people who can't get visas to the USCA lot of people who 237 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,080 ideologically want to build startup societies just like they 238 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:06,120 wanted to build cryptocurrencies. 239 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,200 That's very meta, yes. So they're looking at this 240 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,760 vision and saying the society I'm in is not fulfilling to me. 241 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,520 It feels broken in some way. It feels suboptimal. 242 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,600 And this seems exciting. Yes. 243 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,360 And This is why maybe the press, when they look at you as an 244 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,400 individual and crypto, they kind of look at it like these people 245 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:31,000 are crazy Internet people who don't want to pay taxes. 246 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,000 They want to, like skirt governments and create their own 247 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,960 world. And they're kind of leaving the 248 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,200 real world. It's not that. 249 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,280 It's their builders who want to build something that fits their 250 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,000 sensibility. That's right. 251 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,560 And The thing is everybody here pays taxes, everybody here obeys 252 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:47,640 regulations and so on. And the same thing like when I 253 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,280 CTO of coin base, I built a genomic something and so on and 254 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,400 so forth. We dot every I and cross every 255 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,480 T, right? So we make sure to be like 256 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,680 render under seizure what is Caesar's and so on and so forth, 257 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,360 right? But many, many countries 258 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,040 actually want these kinds of people there. 259 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,080 Yes, desperately, desperately, right? 260 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,000 Because most countries aren't rich countries. 261 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:08,720 Most countries are small countries. 262 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,680 In fact, most countries have actually less than 10 million 263 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:13,920 people. And so if a network school node 264 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,080 or start society node is open there, suddenly all this talent 265 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,880 and capital from around the world floods in. 266 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,760 All people want to do is be able to drink coffee, hit keys on 267 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,640 their laptop, build cool stuff, right? 268 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:25,720 Workout, workout. Dinner. 269 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,200 Yeah, exactly. Like have a life. 270 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,360 Exactly. It's really not that hard. 271 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,680 And this is a crucial thing. You don't just need tax breaks, 272 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,320 you don't need subsidization. People are happy to pay in a 273 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,320 sense, a subscription fee to a society where the, you know, the 274 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,680 roads work, the traffic lights are on and so and so forth. 275 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:45,000 That's fine. What they just don't want is to 276 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,320 be like attacked for being a tech worker or technologist. 277 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:51,040 And one thing also, I do think is going to be so I mentioned 278 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,320 the remote workers visas, the the network Staters, like 279 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,880 ideological network Staters. Then there's also people some 280 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,720 who want to join a startup societies and others who want to 281 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,640 join with the intent of eventually building 1 right. 282 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,760 So early coin base, for example, has a coin base diaspora of all 283 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,440 these people who've created lots of crypto companies. 284 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,520 So many of the people at Network School are learning the template 285 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,600 that we're building. And for example, there's small 286 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,640 things. It's actually, it's surprisingly 287 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,400 hard to get to San Francisco quality coffee. 288 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,320 It's not that hard, but it's like harder than you would 289 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,760 think, right? And other kinds of things like 290 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,160 parts of what we call the daily loop, like, you know, so for 291 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,680 example, you wake up, work out coffee, you know, office pod, 292 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,280 conference room and so on and so forth. 293 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,720 Once you actually start calculating that out and 294 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,560 minimizing all of the transit times, it's like almost like a 295 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:44,160 factory like thing, right? So then you can rack and stack 296 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,320 more office pods, more coffee stations as a function of demand 297 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,160 and so on, sort of so you can just save people so much time. 298 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,360 Whereas normally if they're in a big city, they're like, oh, my 299 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,360 gym is like 30 minutes across from me. 300 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,000 And that's like a huge tax on you every single day and so on. 301 00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,680 So you can start optimizing daily life. 302 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:02,800 That gives them more time to just learn or sit on the beach 303 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,520 or what have you, right? Which is kind of like if you, if 304 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,680 you think about about what we do when we build products or 305 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:11,480 services in technology at our best, we're removing friction to 306 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,880 lighting customers and lowering the cost of it. 307 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,760 Yes. And what I saw today was a bunch 308 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:21,000 of people who are really happy and who are around like minded 309 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,680 people and who feel like they have a stake in it, which is 310 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,040 also super interesting because if you look at what happened in 311 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,520 America over our lifetime, the last 40 or 50 years, people feel 312 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,720 disconnected from it. They feel like they have no 313 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,920 agency. They feel like they're like 314 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,400 victims in the machine or cogs in the wheel, some something 315 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,520 more dystopian. And they feel like the the 316 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:41,960 government doesn't represent them. 317 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,160 But what I saw was a lot of agency, like you guys built a 318 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,400 gym and you guys are building the schedule and you have 319 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,400 speakers. So, you know, I, I think it's 320 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,520 pretty easy to be cynical when people look at it. 321 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,080 And I was watching some of the press coverage of I guess there 322 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,240 was somebody also doing this in middle of America. 323 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,160 They bought a lodge somewhere in Wyoming and your name was 324 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,560 mentioned over and over again that they were like inspired by 325 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:04,440 you. Do you know who I'm talking 326 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,120 about? There's there's some articles 327 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,960 and stuff. There's actually somebody who is 328 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,440 like a Berkeley guy who left. The Wyoming thing the. 329 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,120 Wyoming thing because they're into Dows or whatever, but 330 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,800 that's good. And I was like, I don't 331 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,680 understand why they're so upset. And these are like woke people 332 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,720 from like Wired magazine or whoever who are criticizing this 333 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,520 or I don't know if they were being sensationalistic, but 334 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,200 there seemed to be some animosity towards people saying 335 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,840 I would like to build my own society. 336 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,080 I can put. I can you put it in one 337 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,000 sentence? Please. 338 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,380 Yeah. They don't want us to have self 339 00:15:36,380 --> 00:15:41,080 determination, right? Fundamentally, they basically 340 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:46,120 have replaced God with Gov. They worship these failing 341 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,320 western States and they are in a sense imperialist where they 342 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,240 want them to have bureaucratic power over the entire world and 343 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,840 everybody in it, right. And so because of that, if you 344 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,120 say thank you very much, you guys are your thing, but we want 345 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,120 to do our own thing, right? We want to basically say, hey, 346 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,160 we want to have our own society and we want to be able to 347 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,880 determine our own rules and we want to be able to live together 348 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,080 and so on and so forth. Even by the way, if you're just 349 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,880 Co living, forget even, you know, there's different stages 350 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,160 by the way, there's like Co living, then you might negotiate 351 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,080 a special economic zone and then, you know, eventually, 352 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,320 eventually, eventually maybe you've got you can get an 353 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:24,960 island, get sovereignty or what have you. 354 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,560 OK. But that's the last time did 355 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,920 that ever happened, that an actual government knew the 356 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,560 country was formed in the world, on planet Earth. 357 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,000 Yeah, it was the last time. Yeah. 358 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,440 Well, let me show you something. Right. 359 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,880 So actually there's so. Because I understand you're 360 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,720 making these like communes, kibbutzis. 361 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,240 I don't, you know, little societies, pods, however you 362 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,520 would describe what you're doing in this nascent state. 363 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,120 But the idea of like going and finding an island and saying, 364 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,120 hey, we have sovereignty, nobody can tax us. 365 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:53,920 Yeah, take a look. Ready. 366 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,680 So before I show you this graph, right, what is your mental model 367 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,120 of how many, like going back, let's say to 80 years, right? 368 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,720 What's your mental model of how many new countries were formed? 369 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,000 Wow, I'm trying to think of like countries that seceded from 370 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,880 their mothership would be the primary source of that. 371 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,920 I'm thinking of all the colonies of the British Empire would be 372 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,480 the the first group just logically or other countries in 373 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,880 the Middle East, like, I don't know, Qatar and those kind of 374 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,960 countries were part of UAE and they were forming and unforming. 375 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,080 Here's a graph. So you tell me. 376 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:30,480 OK, there it is. It's. 377 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,160 Forexed. It's 4X since the Yeah since 378 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,880 4:50 to 200. Yes, and The thing is I can show 379 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,640 you this graph. Well, those are UN member 380 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,920 countries, so they were accepted to the UN, but they maybe 381 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,000 existed as countries. Well, no, I mean The thing is if 382 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,880 you define what is a country that's actually an important, if 383 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,680 you define a country as a UN member, the first thing, most 384 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,760 people are surprised it's almost 4X over 80 years, right? 385 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,760 The second thing is, exactly as you point out, the British 386 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,920 Empire, the French Empire, and then over here, this big bump is 387 00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,720 the Soviet Empire breaking down. All right. 388 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,440 And new countries arise, right? Sure. 389 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,760 Now, there's two important features of this. 390 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,480 First, if you go backwards in time, this is actually the most 391 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,240 centralized the world has ever been. 392 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,440 When you go backwards in time. I'll show you some graph. 393 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,760 The number of, you know, independent jurisdictions in 394 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,800 like, Germany. It just rises rapidly like this. 395 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,080 You have thousands and thousands of little, like, you know what 396 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:22,240 San Marino is. You ever been there? 397 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:23,160 No. OK. 398 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,760 It's like a little state lit. Let me show you say something. 399 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:31,080 So San Marino in Italy, right, is like this tiny, tiny thing. 400 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:35,840 It's a microstate that is like a piece of the past that still 401 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,520 sits in the present. It's like a little city there, 402 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:39,920 but it's his own sovereign country. 403 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:40,760 Wow. Yeah. 404 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,920 It's a UN member, right? And the thing about that is 405 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,200 Garibaldi, when he was unifying Italy, San Marino gave him 406 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,720 refuge. So he didn't unify. 407 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,360 He he let it keep its sovereignty. 408 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,680 OK, so that's like a duck billed platypus like this evolutionary 409 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,880 missing link. And it tells you, oh, all the 410 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,200 things we think of as countries like Italy, France, you know, 411 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,400 China, India, they're roll ups of lots of smaller city state 412 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,800 ish, like things that used to exist. 413 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:08,920 That's what the world used to be. 414 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:10,200 It used to be like fragmented like that. 415 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,200 And it got rolled up into these big things for the purpose of 416 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,640 conscription and taxation. Because you basically build 417 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,040 these giant, you know, nation states which have as many people 418 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,320 as you can pack in there, like the Soviet Union and so on. 419 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:22,760 And they all didn't fight each other. 420 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,400 And that's the century of giant wars and conflict and whatever, 421 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,560 right? I'm not saying everything about 422 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,320 that was bad, but a lot of it was bad, right? 423 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,520 OK, so now we're going in a sense back to the future where 424 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,720 just like we went from gold to Fiat to digital gold, right? 425 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,440 We're going from city state, nation state, network state. 426 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:40,960 Got it. I don't think everything goes to 427 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,400 network states, but I think that will arise. 428 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:43,840 And the big difference is network states are 429 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,560 decentralized, so they're everywhere and nowhere. 430 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,480 So CC is only in one place, but network state is decentralized, 431 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:49,600 just like Bitcoin is decentralized. 432 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,440 You've got nodes everywhere and you unify them as an 433 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:52,720 archipelago. Got it. 434 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,680 So they'll be these little outposts in different countries 435 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,440 of network state, errs, people who believe in the network state 436 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,440 concept that you've created. And then if any one of the nodes 437 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,560 goes offline, like when China was like, yeah, no more Bitcoin 438 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,680 or Korea had no cryptocurrency for a bit, I think then they 439 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,600 relented the distributed network heals because people could just 440 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:16,440 leave, that's good and go to another place. 441 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,720 And this seems to be sort of interested on your take on this 442 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,320 even in the United States where you think moving from one state 443 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:28,880 to another would be your right and would be a a great choice 444 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,160 for a human being to make. Like maybe I like the weather or 445 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,800 the people or the culture more in a different state or I just 446 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,920 want to change a pace. I've lived in three different 447 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,320 States and four different major cities in my life. 448 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,160 And I it's one of the great joys of my life is to discover those 449 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:48,360 new ones, but I've never had as much vitriol or questioning of 450 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:52,000 my decision to go to Texas from California, from California. 451 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,040 It seems like there's a group of people who are like, you're 452 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,200 doing this for nefarious reasons. 453 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,680 And and then even deciding to live on a horse ranch as opposed 454 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,000 to living, living in the city was also like, people are a 455 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,240 little critical. Like, why are you doing that? 456 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,280 Like, well, I can have my cake and eat it too. 457 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:11,400 I can go to California and New York anytime I want. 458 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,160 And then Keith Raboy was also derided for going for the sin of 459 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,560 going to Miami. You know why I, I, I'd argue by 460 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,520 it's because California's been under one party, Democrat 461 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,720 control since 2011. So you, California's not a 462 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,800 democracy, No, right. And that's actually why all of 463 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:30,800 the stealing for the NGOs, for the homeless encampments, the 464 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,080 homeless industrial complex has been out of control because they 465 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,560 destroyed democracy in California. 466 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,960 There's no democratic accountability for the Democrat 467 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,120 Party basically looting the conference. 468 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:41,120 That's how I'd put it. And so because that's the only 469 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,400 true vote against that is to leave. 470 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:44,960 Which is why I left. Which is why you. 471 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,960 Left, that's right. And so that's why Elon left, 472 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,240 right? He couldn't even to sign in San 473 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,200 Francisco, right? And there's like some signs of 474 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,680 life or what have you. I know some people. 475 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,760 I don't think it's falling into the Pacific, but I do think it 476 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,960 is in a very. It's a downward, it's a spiral. 477 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,520 It's yeah, I think, I think it is. 478 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,760 At a minimum, it has lost a lot relative to what it could have 479 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,920 been. It's a doom loop and I, I 480 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,520 consider it a doom loop and I consider Austin, what you're 481 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,520 doing here, what I'm seeing in Dubai, in the Middle East, Abu 482 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,960 Dhabi, this kind of like a boom. Spiral. 483 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:16,360 I think that's right. Where it's kind of working its 484 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:17,720 way up. That's right. 485 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,760 Energy seems to be people who are interested in it. 486 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,920 So OK, so we know that those people feel like they're losing 487 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,880 control and they also feel like they're losing high earners who 488 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,080 are creators. And I think this is like a very 489 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,160 pernicious thing because. They think of you as a slave, 490 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:32,560 right? Like basically. 491 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,760 But I'm a creator in capital. I know, I know. 492 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,280 But they want you to see every communist state was like this. 493 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,200 North Korea, East Germany, the Soviet Union, Cuba, and actually 494 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,960 also Nazi Germany. They all didn't want people to 495 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,120 leave. They put exit or they shot 496 00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:50,000 people for leaving. They built the Berlin Wall 497 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,080 because their citizens were basically slaves. 498 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,760 That's what communism is. It's slavery, right? 499 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,560 It means 100% taxation is slavery, right? 500 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,400 You get there by being so far left for the workers paradise 501 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,200 that all the workers are in gulags, right? 502 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,120 So they don't want you to leave because they basically want you 503 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:07,280 to just work for them, right? Right. 504 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,840 And so exercising. I mean, The thing is, one thing 505 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:11,200 that's good though, is the right to exit. 506 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:12,800 He is actually a fundamental right. 507 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,840 It's in like the UN Charter of human Rights, right? 508 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,760 In a sense, the right to exit is the thing that distinguishes, 509 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,960 quote, leadership from dictatorship, right? 510 00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:22,160 The leader let's you leave, right, Right. 511 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,760 That is, if people can't distinguish the two, the 512 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,840 difference is the dictator doesn't, it's a prison state, 513 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,040 right? But leadership is you've 514 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,160 voluntarily opted in to be there, and you can voluntarily 515 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,440 opt to leave. Right. 516 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,080 And they and they have to earn you being a citizen. 517 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,000 That's right. And they're of service to you, 518 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,120 which is how it didn't feel for a lot of us in California, New 519 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,200 York. And that's when this great 520 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,280 migration happened. People felt like, well, why am I 521 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,000 buying into this society which feels dangerous and deranged at 522 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,920 times, and I could go somewhere where it's more constructive or 523 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,360 more in line with my ideals. This is right. 524 00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:58,200 And this is also actually the counter argument. 525 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,440 When people are like Elon, it's techno monarchy. 526 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,720 It's not techno monarchy, it's actually techno democracy. 527 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,000 Why every single person who's gone to Starbase chose to be 528 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,080 there? Yeah, and any person there can 529 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,080 leave. They opted in with their 530 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,400 presence. And I think that's like, 531 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,480 actually, if you think about voting like your vote doesn't 532 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,200 matter in California, New York, when to a certain extent, but 533 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,040 voting where you live, that is the ultimate vote, I believe. 534 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,400 Yes. And actually this is a important 535 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,000 paradigm shift because essentially what is democracy? 536 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,440 It's the consent of the government, right? 537 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,000 And I mean that's, you know, like the process and 538 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,400 reformation, they took away all the Catholics, you know, the 539 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,800 nothing against Catholics, OK, but like the the Catholic 540 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,160 Church, the Pope, all the stuff is in the Bible, right? 541 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,840 That's like superstructure that was added later. 542 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,200 Fine, there's all these precedents, whatever. 543 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,760 But the process and reformation said, let's clear away all that 544 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,720 and talk about the root. Go to the radical. 545 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,560 That's what radical means. Go to the root and say you know 546 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,880 the direct relationship with Jesus and you know so. 547 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:51,960 Yes, and so. Sorry. 548 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,400 So if you go to the root of democracy, it's the consent of 549 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,240 the government. And the problem is 51% democracy 550 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,280 is that 49% have not given their consent to the current, you 551 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,960 know, rulers, right? So and that's what you keep 552 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:05,840 getting. You get a 49 percent, 51% of 553 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,000 this back and forth. And the guys who win by 51% try 554 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,840 to govern like they've got a 99% majority and that produces 555 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,040 backlash. And we've seen that back and 556 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:13,640 forth, right? And then the elections become 557 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,760 more and more hard fought and that 2% flips the other way. 558 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,200 And then you get a huge seesaw this way. 559 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,760 The alternative to that to the two party system, is the 1000 560 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,840 city system. Migrate to the one that fits you 561 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:29,320 best and have consensus in that society that eighty, 9097% in 562 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,840 the case of Star Base agree that rocket ships going to Mars and 563 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,200 the noise pollution caused by them is not pollution, it's joy. 564 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,840 That's right. And every time we hear that 565 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,360 noise, we are excited and thrilled at progress, whereas 566 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:46,080 another person might consider that noise absolutely why they 567 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,040 didn't move to that area. They wanted quiet. 568 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,920 And here's The thing is, let's say that you take that as an 569 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,960 important cost, right, because the frontier is a filter, right? 570 00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:57,840 The frontier filters for a certain kind of person who's 571 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,400 willing to take some pain for some gain. 572 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:00,560 We see that all the time in startups. 573 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:01,760 It's not a big company employee, right? 574 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,760 So take that example of Mars. So let's say you, you say, OK, 575 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,240 we want to get to Mars. We want to tell it the rocket 576 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,000 launches. So everybody just has ear 577 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,640 protection stuff at home. Sure, fine, you can solve that. 578 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,000 Maybe there's better sound perfect at home. 579 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,240 There's there's ways you can solve that. 580 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,680 When you set this as a goal of getting to the stars, then you 581 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,960 can use technology to mitigate the downsides, right? 582 00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:21,960 And but it's whether people have that can do attitude. 583 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,320 They're aligned on the goal, right. 584 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,800 So my view is that the thousand city system as opposed to the 585 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,760 two party system is how you get genuine diversity. 586 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,840 And actually, you know what, there's already a prototype of 587 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:31,880 this. We've actually been doing this 588 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,480 for 20-30 forty years. You know why? 589 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,640 So imagine if at age 18 or age 21 you picked your country like 590 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:39,960 you pick your college. Right. 591 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,400 But that's actually already the case for millions of people from 592 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,080 Asia. Why Asia? 593 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,880 India at age 21, they would apply for their master's degree 594 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,520 at MIT or Stanford or what have you, and they would have the F1 595 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,560 student visa for college. They'd have the H1B visa for 596 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,160 their company, and then they'd get a green card or permanent 597 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,640 residency and then eventually citizenship at the country 598 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,920 level. So college company country where 599 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,520 like this is, is a labyrinth that an immigrant tech immigrant 600 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,240 has a stack. It's a stack. 601 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:10,880 That's right. So college company country, 602 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,600 we're right. And The thing is, nobody has 603 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,640 packaged that together. That's one of the things we're 604 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,880 doing in network school. We want to just like, you know, 605 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,040 with cryptocurrency, part of the reason you bought cryptocurrency 606 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,880 is to get more Fiat currency and it says people would get BTC to 607 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,680 get more USD. That was one important metric, 608 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,080 right? Part of the reason to come to 609 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,680 like a crypto society or a network society is to improve 610 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,880 your Fiat passport. So lots of people who come from 611 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,040 countries, they're American, notorious, they're smart, right? 612 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,360 We can get them worker visas, we can get them maybe to buy golden 613 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,800 visas, things like that. We can let them see the world, 614 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,280 right? Because people don't understand 615 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,440 that if they're born without what people call passport 616 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,040 privilege, they're basically like in prison, they're locked, 617 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,800 right? It's very hard to see the world 618 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,680 to get to other countries. And so we can upgrade that. 619 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,280 We can get them, you know, employment passes and so on and 620 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,200 so forth. And they're hard working and 621 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,800 they deserve all of that, right? And, and they'll do a good job 622 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,400 with that, right? You know, it's, this is my first 623 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,640 trip internationally, well, first time in Singapore. 624 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:09,440 What'd you think I? Am really fascinated by places 625 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,520 that are like start up cities because this is a 60 year old 626 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,640 city. They're having their 60th 627 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,120 anniversary in August. I found out and I was like, this 628 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,000 is one of the few times I've gone to a country that is 629 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,200 younger than America. Usually when Americans go 630 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,720 abroad, they're going to a country that's older, much older 631 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,680 typically. And, you know, I have the same 632 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,880 experience when I go to the Middle East, which is, you know, 633 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,440 Dubai, Dubai. And like, these are new cities 634 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,880 that in 1950 were deserts, right? 635 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,400 So it's fascinating to see those countries and the enthusiasm 636 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,680 that people have for them. And also it was also a little 637 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,440 bit sad for me because as an American, as a high profile 638 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,200 American who has an opinion that sometimes people listen to or at 639 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,320 least they hear it. Yeah. 640 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,400 But they don't have to agree with it. 641 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,920 But, you know, there were a lot of people asking me to explain 642 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,000 what's going on in our country and asking me to explain it 643 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,800 because they're perplexed and saddened by how America is 644 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,360 interacting with the rest of the world. 645 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,640 So putting aside my belief system, just the candid feedback 646 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:18,360 I got, I, I would say I've been heartbroken, crestfallen at how 647 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,560 people were talking about America. 648 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,520 And it's the first time in my life I've ever had it. 649 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,240 It's like it's actually kind of heavy on my heart the last three 650 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,880 days because people were saying what, why don't you want this 651 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,120 stuff? Why are you doing this to us? 652 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,960 Why can't we come to the country? 653 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,480 Why don't you want us to come to America on vacation? 654 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,480 I was talking to some folks who are extremely successful. 655 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,520 These are the most .1% of the 1%. 656 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,680 The 1% of the 1% were telling me my kids can go anywhere and on 657 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,400 vacation. They want to go to China because 658 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,760 they believe it's the future. They don't want to go to America 659 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,680 for college and they don't want to go to America because they 660 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,720 feel like they might get harassed at the border. 661 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,320 And then we want to do business with your country. 662 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,360 And we thought that the new administration would be 663 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,320 embracing the rest of the world, getting rid of regulation, and 664 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,920 that we'd have this great era of interoperability and we'd have 665 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,600 like an acceleration in business. 666 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,040 And now you're just rattling the cage constantly. 667 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,960 And we wanna do business, but you're sending us to go do 668 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,240 business in other places and we can't rely on you anymore. 669 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,800 And that actually I think maybe is the heart most heartbreaking 670 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,200 thing is that they feel like we're not a reliable partner is 671 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,280 what they were telling me. This is not my position. 672 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:34,440 This is the input from people in Singapore who I think represent 673 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,760 a certain level of sophisticated, globalistic, 674 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,000 world savvy people. And so maybe you tell me how as 675 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,040 an American. So you're an American who lives 676 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:52,880 abroad now, like you. What do you think of what's 677 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,680 happened? You know, and it we can't get 678 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,240 away from politics. We can't get away from Trump 679 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,880 because it's it's defining a lot of what's happening in the world 680 00:30:58,880 --> 00:30:59,240 right now. Yeah. 681 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,360 So tell me the perception and your perception here's. 682 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,320 How I think about this, and I actually did shed a single manly 683 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,080 tear, OK, when writing the Network State book, Yeah, 684 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,560 because I had some of the same emotions on that you're talking 685 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,320 about. And the way I look at it is 686 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,400 Britain, America, the Internet, OK, right. 687 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,520 Britain was an amazing, amazing thing, honestly, for the world. 688 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,560 The British Empire, a lot of people attack it and they had a 689 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,400 lot of faults, but it did on net advance civilization. 690 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,600 There's a lot of good things Britain did, but eventually the 691 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,800 British Empire, exhausted, handed the torch to America and 692 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,400 it's no longer an empire. The British Empire is just, it's 693 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,720 a country, UK, it's just a country. 694 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,760 That's right. And the start of the American 695 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,280 Empire was arguably 1939. There's this great book called 696 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,240 Tomorrow the World by Stephen Wertheim that actually documents 697 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,480 that the fall of France was actually the moment. 698 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,280 It wasn't actually post world of truth at the beginning. 699 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,800 The fall of France was the moment that the Americans at 700 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,640 that point, they were, they'd been happy to let the British do 701 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,280 all the empiring and just build up their country. 702 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,040 But once they saw that the Nazis or maybe the Soviets could build 703 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,160 an empire that was bigger than the British and like, oh, we 704 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,240 have to do this. So that moment was when America 705 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,440 turned truly into a global empire and they set out to to be 706 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,800 a global empire. That's why there's 750 military 707 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,000 bases worldwide. That's why the headquarters of 708 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,720 the UN is in New York. That's why, like, for example, 709 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,920 Harvard Kennedy School of Government alone has 20 heads of 710 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,160 state that were trained there, right? 711 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,120 That's why the US has regulatory harmonization. 712 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,280 All these countries around the world use US regulations. 713 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,720 There's like a Hungarian FDA. That's why there's US 714 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,840 multinationals everywhere. And I could go on and on, right? 715 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,440 The the number of Internet searches being done at Google. 716 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,040 Google is the number one search engine in every country except 717 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:47,120 for like Korea, China, Russia and maybe still Japan and maybe 718 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,640 it's 5050 Japan now. Yeah, I don't know. 719 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,240 But I think it's maybe four countries. 720 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,280 It's like 4 countries. That's right. 721 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,680 But here's the thing. The issue with empire, any 722 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,440 empire, is you get this global footprint, but it also ends up 723 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,400 sort of eating away the core of the empire, right? 724 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,760 And it does so in two ways. The left is mad because they 725 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,960 feel that your people are oppressing people around the 726 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,720 world, which is sometimes true. And the right is mad because 727 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,320 they feel that your people are bearing a burden of the rest of 728 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:13,680 the world, which is also sometimes true. 729 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,600 So eventually the left and right basically get tired of empire 730 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,960 and shut it down and then they often regret it, right. 731 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:20,920 So that happened with the British Empire, that happened 732 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,800 with the French Empire and it happened within our lifetime 733 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,160 within the with the Soviet Empire. 734 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,800 Everybody thought that the aftermath would be something 735 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,720 great. And was actually it was, it was 736 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,840 mixed that, you know, Eastern Europe was free and it did well 737 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,240 and so on. Estonia did well. 738 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,520 Russia itself did very poorly for a long time. 739 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:36,960 And then it's like someone started to recover. 740 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,240 But you know, fine. Point being, we are in the last 741 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,880 stages of American empire, OK, because four forces, you know, 742 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,360 the the red America doesn't is against the deep state, blue 743 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,920 America's against the Trump administration tech America's 744 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,800 against the regulatory state and China's against use hegemony. 745 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,560 So all four of those vectors are pointed down. 746 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,480 So nothing is keeping the current establishment up. 747 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,760 Every day there's another hit to it going down. 748 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,080 That's never it's like a solar eclipse. 749 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,880 It's never happened in our lifetime before, right? 750 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:10,760 And you can't cut off foreign trade and foreign travel and 751 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,600 foreign tourism without also eventually cutting off foreign 752 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,760 capital flows into the dollar. And then without the reserve 753 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,800 currency, Americans here as a living will fall very rapidly. 754 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,760 I don't know how much, 50%, ninety percent, 99%. 755 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,239 But this is similar to what happened after the fall of the 756 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,920 Soviet Union. The ruble hyper inflated. 757 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:28,880 Now, one thing, we're actually in the middle of something. 758 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,960 If you're, you know, being in a Tesla's actually very noticeable 759 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,199 acceleration. Have you ever been in a bullet 760 00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,440 train? Yeah, So if you're in a bullet 761 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,960 train, it can accelerate in such a seamless way that you don't 762 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,360 even realize how fast you're going. 763 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,639 Right, right. So do you know how much the US 764 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:44,840 dollar is devalued against Bitcoin since inception? 765 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,960 100 million X because Bitcoin started at .1 cent. 766 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,639 Actually, you wrote honestly one of the best early articles on 767 00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:54,560 Bitcoin. Yeah. 768 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,120 Where actually there are a lot of things that. 769 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,320 That were, it was, I said it's the most dangerous open source 770 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,400 project I've ever seen because it could destabilize the entire 771 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,880 world, because the sovereignty of countries is, you know, 772 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,360 military and their currency. And this could change history 773 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,320 forever. Yeah, I was. 774 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,160 I was shook when it was at $0.12. 775 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,120 So The thing is that as soon as Bitcoin appeared, capital 776 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:21,800 started flowing into it and it's gone up 100 million X against a 777 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,080 dollar and there's only like another 10X to go or 100 X. 778 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,240 But that last 10X will be felt in a different way. 779 00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:31,800 See, The thing is at $100,000 for Bitcoin, everybody's happy, 780 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,880 but $1,000,000 for Bitcoin, people understand like empire's 781 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,120 over. There's something about that as 782 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,400 like a round Number. And so and so people like, wait 783 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,000 a second. And when we're thinking about it 784 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,640 is like normal inflation supposed to be like 2% a year, 785 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,120 that works out to like .2% a month. 786 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:47,800 It's an arbitrary figure comes from New Zealand. 787 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,560 It should really be 0%. But let's say, OK, 788 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,800 hyperinflation is 50% a month, right? 789 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,320 So .2% a month normal inflation, hyperinflation. 50% a month. 790 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,800 What if we define superinflation as 5% a month? 791 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,320 Right. If you work it out, the 792 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,360 compounded rate at which the dollar has been devaluing 793 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,920 against Bitcoin is like 10.41% a month for 16 years. 794 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,920 OK. So we're actually already in the 795 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,040 middle of the global run on the dollar. 796 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,200 It's like that bullet train that's being accelerated without 797 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,320 people seeing it. That is like the alternative is 798 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:19,600 already here. And you're seeing BlackRock 799 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,160 saying Bitcoins is an alternative to the dollar, 800 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,400 right? The other alternative, by the 801 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,880 way, is gold, physical gold that's also at all time highs. 802 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,600 So gold and digital gold are the things that will be obvious 803 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,800 warning symbols in retrospect that this order is changing, 804 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,640 right? And so then what comes on the 805 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,120 other side, right? My, my view is that the future 806 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,040 is China versus the Internet and the heirs to American empire. 807 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,000 China has the military and the manufacturing. 808 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,360 And it's one of these things where guys like Peter Zihan will 809 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,400 say China is going to fall into a ditch. 810 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:51,960 It's going to get old before it gets rich. 811 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,240 The US can blockade China, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 812 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,240 And in actuality, a lot of those things are happening in reverse. 813 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,520 For example, China's blockading the US, China's proxy, Iran has 814 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,120 its proxy, the Houthis. That's blockading Suez, right? 815 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,840 And in many ways, US demographics are worse than 816 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,200 Chinese demographics. Why? 817 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,120 Because you've got this polarized society, everybody 818 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,720 fighting each other. You have all this ethnic 819 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:15,680 conflict. You have young minorities 820 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,640 expected to pay for old people's Social Security and on and on. 821 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,960 US, you have men and women hating each other and whatnot, 822 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,440 right? So US demographics, there's a 823 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,600 cauldron of ethnic, gender, political, economic conflict and 824 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,360 resentments waiting to bubble over, right? 825 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,560 China for its false, has like homogeneous society, right? 826 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,280 And so the problem is China's very strong, right? 827 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,480 I think of the people who downplayed China as the stealth 828 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,960 on the Chinese stealth bomber, right? 829 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,280 They're not doing anybody any favors. 830 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,640 China's extremely strong and it's very competent. 831 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,640 And if we can't build an alternative, then it will just 832 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,120 be dominant. You believe the what Trump is 833 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,120 doing in terms of shutting the borders and changing this sort 834 00:37:55,120 --> 00:38:00,080 of a tariff regime is an isolation and isolation and then 835 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,160 getting rid of immigration largely. 836 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,200 This is a very dangerous strategy. 837 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,080 It's a very dangerous strategy. It's not. 838 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,000 At this time. Well, it's it's like not it's 839 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,000 not even like it's like a, you know, the thing like a nice 840 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,000 strategy caught and let's see if it works for them, right. 841 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,800 Just take the tariff thing alone, OK? 842 00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:19,320 Those were simultaneous tariffs on the entire world, right? 843 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,680 So Vietnam got hit, Cambodia got hit all. 844 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,760 Grays good. They're strays. 845 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:25,640 They're strays. Stray bullets. 846 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,920 Exactly, like I analogize it to like firing into a crowd to like 847 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,160 get China, right. Everybody who got hit by the 848 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,360 stray is not going to care that you were trying to get China. 849 00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,880 They're going to care how careless and random you are with 850 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,120 the lives of all these people. And just talk about the tariffs 851 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,680 for a second. First, everybody who is pro 852 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,760 American in all these countries, they're the ones with American 853 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,640 customers, with American vendors, American suppliers, all 854 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,200 those people who were the political faction of those 855 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,320 countries that pushed for good relations with America, that 856 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,120 pushed to travel to America to trade America, all those people 857 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,520 just got discredited, right? They just got economically 858 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,000 harmed. They got absolutely naked 859 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,320 because they trust in the stability of the United States 860 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:01,880 of America. They trust in the stability of 861 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,240 the trade system. They trust in predictability. 862 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:05,360 Yeah, exactly. That's right. 863 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,520 And when you add it up, it's basically the US no longer wants 864 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,560 to be the hub of this global financial empire. 865 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,240 They don't want the foreign workers, they don't want the 866 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:16,320 foreign trade. There's a faction of MAGA that 867 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,920 is incorrect in their own way, as economically irrational as 868 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,880 the far left that actually thinks that 77 million MAGA can 869 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,640 compete with 1.4 billion China, let alone the entire world. 870 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,200 It's simply not true. Well, no, I was going to say, 871 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,640 the idea that Americans want to rush in and make iPhones in a 872 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,880 factory is like, so farcical. It's not that iPhones can't be 873 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,240 made in America. They could when? 874 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,640 You bring this up on X, people will say they'll get really mad 875 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,080 and then they'll say, well I want someone else to be able to 876 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:43,160 work in a factory. Right. 877 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,440 But you can't find anybody in your family who said, wow, 878 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:47,800 wouldn't it be great if I could do that? 879 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,520 Now, listen, we do make Teslas in factories in America. 880 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,440 It can be done. We're making rockets in America. 881 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,840 It's not the question of if we can make them there, but if 882 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,880 we're going to close the border and we have 4% unemployment, 883 00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:00,440 who's going to work in these factories? 884 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,640 Yes, but let me give, let me give also the Steelman case for 885 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,960 MAGA because I understand where their worldview comes from. 886 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,080 So first is they would say, OK, sure, maybe why is it white 887 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,160 collar worker, whatever don't want to work in a factory that 888 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,760 they would say that, but it's way better than blue collar 889 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,000 worker has opportunity to work in a factory than dying of 890 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,240 fentanyl or whatever. True. 891 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:19,960 OK. Number 2, they'd say factory 892 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:24,160 work produces skills and stuff that, you know, there's all 893 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,160 kinds of mechanical maintenance and whatnot, which you don't 894 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,120 want to over offshore and incentives. 895 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,440 I'd agree with that as well. Third, they'd say as red 896 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:33,800 American, they've gotten a hard time from blue Americans. 897 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,880 Red America has been sent over, ceased to die and so on. 898 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,840 And so with blue Americans have exploited them. 899 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:39,040 There's some truth to that as well. 900 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,280 OK, I could go and I could say quite a few things. 901 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,840 Another thing that says we're running these trade deficits for 902 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,320 so long. We can't run them endlessly, and 903 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,760 we need to be able to make things at home. 904 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:48,880 We'll be too dependent on others. 905 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,680 We're too dependent on China, too bad on the rest of the 906 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:51,640 world. There's some truth to that as 907 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,440 well. OK, But what they get wrong is a 908 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,320 they're in a huge hole and they think that they can just get out 909 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,240 with some sudden move, right? You cannot get out of 45 years 910 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:05,960 of deindustrialization with 45% tariffs. 911 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,320 There's no overnight fix for this right? 912 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,280 2 maybe yes, blue America and red America have been fighting. 913 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,040 That doesn't mean Vietnam is the enemy of red America. 914 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,080 It also doesn't mean like Canadian conservatives are the 915 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,040 enemy of red America. What they managed to do by 916 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,880 threatening to invade Greenland and and Canada and and doing 917 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,880 these tariffs and so on is just like the wokes built the anti 918 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,600 woke coalition, the Magas have built the post American 919 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,960 coalition. Even Canadian conservatives who 920 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,080 are their natural allies, if Canadian conservatives like 921 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,120 Pierre Paulivery and so on are getting crapped on, right. 922 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,400 And do you see the graph of the Canadian? 923 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,680 Conservatives. So basically, if if we are this 924 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,480 unpredictable to the rest of the world, the world will look for 925 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,840 more predictable partners to partner with. 926 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,080 And it's happening as we speak because we're five months into 927 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:55,400 this presidency and already you have China, Singapore, Russia, 928 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,520 India and everybody in between going. 929 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,520 Well, if we can't figure out how to work with the Trump 930 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,680 administration, if we can't figure out how to work with 931 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,200 America, I guess we should just work with each other. 932 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,400 And that's a very dangerous place to be. 933 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,360 Like perhaps we're overplaying our hand. 934 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:16,040 And absolutely how important we are to China, how important we 935 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,000 are to India, Like, how important are we? 936 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:19,760 Do they have other customers? I think they have a lot of 937 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:20,280 other. Customers. 938 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:21,160 They have a lot of our customers. 939 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,320 And in fact, look, in 2015, China was taken aback by the 940 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:25,960 trade war. But over the last 10 years, 941 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,880 they're now prepared for it. And like a lot of Trump tactics 942 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,600 don't work anymore. They're not surprised anymore. 943 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,080 It's just the same kind of thing. 944 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,760 And they reduced their share of revenue for the US. 945 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,840 It's only 15 percent. 16% of Chinese trade goes to the US, 946 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,080 85% is overseas. They've built up these other 947 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,640 markets. So whereas the US needs the 948 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,400 parts that are from China. Let me tell you a little story, 949 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,200 right? So in the late 2000s, around 950 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,440 2008 with the Beijing Olympics, you remember that, right? 951 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,640 So there was pollution in Beijing. 952 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:53,960 Now they've actually solved it, but there was. 953 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,520 Heavy pollution for the long term. 954 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,040 The runners would not want to run a marathon there. 955 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,200 Yeah, that's right. So China, basically, they knew 956 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:02,640 all the people who were polluting and they went to them 957 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,960 like a few weeks before and they told them to shut all their 958 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,840 stuff down so they'd have clear skies for the Beijing Olympics. 959 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,800 OK. So I was operating the clinical 960 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:16,160 lab at that time and there was a global shortage of a specific 961 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,360 kind of chemical precursor that was used in various biomedical 962 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,720 reactions. And the price like skyrocketed 963 00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:25,600 like 100 X for that time because one of those factories like 964 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,280 China was just the the scale supplier of like the whole 965 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:29,600 world. Single pound failure. 966 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,080 Yeah, yeah. Now, that meant like research, 967 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,400 clinical testing and so on, ground to a halt for anything 968 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,360 that used this compound or you had huge spikes in costs just 969 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,880 for a few weeks. Now, look, this wasn't the end 970 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,160 of the world because it did resume, but a lot of people had 971 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,560 lab test interruptions, research interruptions and so on. 972 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,560 And that was 20 years ago. And that gave me a sense of what 973 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,760 China is, right? It is just upstream of the 974 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,320 physical world like the US military is made in China, like 975 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,560 Tomahawk missiles. You know, there's a report $400 976 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,680 million the Pentagon paid Govini to go and study the US military 977 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,320 supply chains, Tomahawk missiles. 978 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,120 J Dams, the supplier suppliers in China, right? 979 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,400 The former Secretary of the Navy Carlos del Toro, 2023 He says 980 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:12,880 the US Navy one Chinese shipyard can build more ships than the 981 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:13,960 entire U.S. Navy combined. 982 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,840 They have 13 shipyards. In some cases, their shipyard 983 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,360 has more capacity. One shipyard has more capacity 984 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,840 than all of our shipyards combined. 985 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,520 You have Hegseth recently on a podcast, Sean Ryan Podcast, and 986 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,680 he said Chinese hypersonics can sync every US aircraft carrier. 987 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:30,520 Our whole power projection platform is aircraft carriers 988 00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,400 and the ability to project power that way strategically around 989 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:34,440 the globe. And yeah, we have a nuclear 990 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,160 triad and all of that, but a big part of it. 991 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,720 And if you know 15 hypersonic missiles can take out our 10 992 00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:43,680 aircraft carriers in the 1st 20 minutes of a conflict, what does 993 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,400 that look like? You have basically this U.S. 994 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,960 Navy chart that shows China's 200X US ship billing capacity. 995 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,000 China now has a world's largest Navy, right? 996 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,280 And people say, oh, it doesn't have the aircraft carriers yet, 997 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,880 but that's like saying Netflix. Has the number of ships, but it 998 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,280 doesn't have the tonnage. But these are semantic. 999 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,880 Arguments, arguments because it's like saying how many 1000 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:02,880 Blockbuster stores does Netflix have? 1001 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,320 You know, they're they're paradigm shifting. 1002 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,080 They're going with standoff missiles and hypersonic. 1003 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,800 Anyway, point is to the predictability part. 1004 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,120 All these countries, it's even worse than them just trading 1005 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,720 with each other. They're all re centering around 1006 00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:16,040 China because it's a global hub for trade. 1007 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,480 China has ships in every port. It has relationships with every 1008 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,080 country. Every country needs Chinese 1009 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,320 goods, right? And so China just has more 1010 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,800 leverage. And people think that the US has 1011 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:26,920 leverage because it's the consumer. 1012 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:28,840 But what's it giving? It's giving basically dollars. 1013 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,960 Why are dollars valuable? Now we have to ask deeper 1014 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:32,880 questions. The only reason the US can 1015 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,160 maintain its current level of consumption is that there was a 1016 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,520 global financial empire where the right built the US military 1017 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,600 and the left did US diplomacy underappreciated by the right. 1018 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,120 Look, you and I, we've been on lots of capitals. 1019 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,600 We've done lots of deals. Imagine a capitale with 196 1020 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:48,920 people on it. That's a huge pain. 1021 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,840 Yeah, OK. Now imagine 196 countries and 1022 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,840 how hard it is to get them to sign on the line which is 1023 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:55,400 dotted. That's a huger pain, right? 1024 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:56,360 Yeah. A lot of work and. 1025 00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,560 So things like the WTO or the WHOUS diplomats got 196 1026 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:01,880 countries to sign on to this stuff. 1027 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,440 Yeah, OK, They got 196 heads of state, 100 like all kinds of 1028 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,680 crazy standouts, holdouts. US diplomats were the best ever, 1029 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,840 and so was the US military the best ever. 1030 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,800 And because of this, the left and the right state and Pentagon 1031 00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,200 worked together to build the greatest empire of all time. 1032 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:20,400 Right. And is it just over now? 1033 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,680 I mean it's just over now. It's just over as your position. 1034 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,400 Or it's ending and people haven't marked it to market. 1035 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,480 Basically, hard power is China and hard money is, is Bitcoin, 1036 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,320 right? That's, that's the future 1037 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,560 political axis. CCP is total control. 1038 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,560 Bitcoin's total freedom right now, total freedom can also be 1039 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,480 total anarchy, right? So I'm, I'm very sympathetic. 1040 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,240 Bitcoin, I'm certainly more on this side of things, but I think 1041 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:45,160 you want some balance between total control and total anarchy, 1042 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:47,160 right? And that's where network states, 1043 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,040 that's where Dubai, that's where maybe India, that's maybe 1044 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,480 Eastern Europe and other places will will have to be. 1045 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,360 And so to your point about predictability, the problem is 1046 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,480 lots of countries are now thinking of China as a less 1047 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,520 unpredictable partner than the US, even after the Shanghai 1048 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,160 lockdowns of 2022 when China put the country, which is crazy, but 1049 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:06,760 it's actually really bad. Well, A. 1050 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,240 Dictatorship that will put a million Uyghurs into a 1051 00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:13,280 concentration camp. A dictatorship that will put 1052 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,200 their country under surveillance, that will take the 1053 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,880 entire sector of entrepreneurship and say we own 1054 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,960 the companies now and Jack Ma is going to go into re education or 1055 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:25,960 oil painting classes like. These two that's. 1056 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,680 Yeah, that's more reliable than the United States. 1057 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,200 Like, let that sink in that people are making that choice. 1058 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,480 And the problem is that basically it'll be they'll be 1059 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,680 the version 3 point O, which which is the V1 is so the 1060 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,160 instinctive conservative reaction, Chinese Communist 1061 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,280 Party and so on and so forth, right? 1062 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,720 The V2, there's certain kind of sophisticated international 1063 00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:46,440 commentator who'll say, say something like this and let me 1064 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,720 explain it and then I'll give a counter argument to what they're 1065 00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:49,920 saying. They'll say, well, the US blew 1066 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,560 up the Middle East and China's building up Africa. the US got 1067 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:53,760 in all these wars, killed these people. 1068 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,280 China hasn't done that. the US wrecked its cities and China's 1069 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,360 built up its cities. Therefore, China's peaceful 1070 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,760 rise, China's good right? Now my counter argument to that, 1071 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,640 accepting some of that is true, that China did build itself up 1072 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,760 and so on and so forth. If you think about the US, it 1073 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,720 was generally the better actor of the US versus USSR up to 1074 00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:13,000 1991. Like West Germany was better off 1075 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,520 than East Germany. South Korea is better off than 1076 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:16,320 North Korea. Capitalist countries, wealthier, 1077 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:17,760 freer than communist countries, right. 1078 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:21,080 But after 1991, it became so powerful that it lost its way. 1079 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,880 Hyperpower went to its head. They started blowing up these 1080 00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,080 countries. It started basically like a like 1081 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,320 a really wealthy grandkid or great grandkid interventionism. 1082 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,360 They for no reason. They put the fortune up their 1083 00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:32,960 nose, right? Like, there's a saying, shirt 1084 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,400 sleeves to shirt sleeves in three generations, being born 1085 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,640 really, really, really rich is actually sometimes a curse 1086 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,680 because they don't understand the value of hard work, right? 1087 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,520 So all these people inherited an empire that they can never 1088 00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:46,400 build. And the last 30 years of 1089 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,480 management since 1991 has been some of the worst management 1090 00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,400 maybe of any empire ever in history, right? 1091 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,320 OK. Problem is that on the current 1092 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:58,760 path, when China wins, right? Meaning, like the US has its 1093 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,480 sovereign debt crisis because all these things on the tariff 1094 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,520 they're doing, they're reducing the demand for the dollar, The 1095 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,520 demand for the dollar, The only thing that's keeping the US 1096 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,040 economy afloat because, you know, the Feds Plunge protection 1097 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,160 Team don't. That is, Yeah, it basically buys 1098 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:12,520 stocks with printed money, right? 1099 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,280 It's upward redistribution of wealth in a sense, right? 1100 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,800 This has been going on at least since the 90s you know with the 1101 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,480 feds mortgage-backed securities it's admitted it's buying assets 1102 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,720 with its own balance sheet. Many other times it uses like 1103 00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:24,520 shell entities and so on so that it spots people money and so on. 1104 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:27,920 But it props up the market with printing, OK when and obviously 1105 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:33,040 20/22/2021 with up until 20/22 the, the post COVID market was 1106 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,440 propped up by printing. When there isn't global demand 1107 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,000 for the dollar, when you have weak treasury auctions, when 1108 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:41,000 people aren't, aren't able to trade with the US, why would 1109 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,760 they want to hold U.S. dollars anymore, right? 1110 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,280 They can't send their people in. They can't send their workers 1111 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:46,920 in. They can't, they can't even come 1112 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,040 there for tourism. Why do they want to hold U.S. 1113 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,920 dollars again, especially because they can be frozen with 1114 00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,440 sanctions, especially when there's Bitcoin and gold and so 1115 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:54,800 on. They won't, right? 1116 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,360 So when that happens, you get a markdown and China just rises 1117 00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,440 into the vacuum. People don't understand that 1118 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,520 it's like #1 in, in many research fields, right? 1119 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,480 It's number one in in many manufacturing fields. 1120 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:06,800 It's way stronger than people think. 1121 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,040 And the problem is China will be even meaner than you think when 1122 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:13,240 it's dominant right now, it constrains China. 1123 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:14,560 Internally, China is not constrained. 1124 00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:16,600 So it can throw all its people in lockdown for in like Shanghai 1125 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,840 2022. But externally it's still feared 1126 00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,680 the US and and the US is almost the opposite. 1127 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,960 Internally, there was Republican Democrats who was somewhat 1128 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,040 constrained, but externally he was bombing all these countries 1129 00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:27,520 because it didn't feel constrained, right? 1130 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:29,600 So his absolute power corrupts absolutely. 1131 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,160 So we need a counterbalance. This completely unleashed China 1132 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,480 and that is the Internet, right? Because with the Internet, we 1133 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,920 can actually, that's the heir to American values, right? 1134 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,600 Of course it's it's capitalism, it's freedom. 1135 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,800 It's a it's a manifestation of democracy. 1136 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,400 But it's also that it's right, it's the libertarian values and 1137 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,120 the progressive values, right? In the non corrupted form, 1138 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:51,280 right? So it's freedom, it's 1139 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,280 capitalism, it's contracts, it's cryptocurrency, but it's also 1140 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,320 democracy, equality, media, science. 1141 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,360 In a real sense, I'm one of the biggest funders of those things 1142 00:50:58,360 --> 00:50:59,880 in the world. For example, I fund all this 1143 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,520 decentralized science, right? I fund all these decentralized 1144 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,000 media, all these decentralized citizen journalists, things like 1145 00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:08,440 provenance, you know, The Who, what and where, why, how of a 1146 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,320 story like the where is proof of location, right? 1147 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,240 The Who is proof of human right? And there's all these 1148 00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:17,240 decentralized ways of doing this to get to truth, right, to get 1149 00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:20,200 to media, to get to science, to get to equality, because that's 1150 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,520 what crypto is it. It's an equal system for the 1151 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:23,840 whole world. Hernando de Soto has written 1152 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:25,440 about this. Like all these people in Latin 1153 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,400 America are artificially poor because they don't have property 1154 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:28,720 rights. Now we can deliver that to them 1155 00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:31,080 over the Internet, right? And and this is no longer 1156 00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,920 theoretical. 10 years ago, talking about like crypto in 1157 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:34,840 poor countries was theoretical. Now it's not. 1158 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,760 These people need crypto like in in lab Lebanon and Nigeria and 1159 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,560 like Venezuela, their phones are their life lines. 1160 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,680 They are crypto first. They are Internet first people. 1161 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,680 And when I when I'm talking to them, they it's not theory that 1162 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:47,920 we're talking about, it's practice, right? 1163 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,480 Yeah. So Internet first. 1164 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,920 I think that is the one thing that can build an economic union 1165 00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:54,680 that can balance China. Interesting. 1166 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:59,040 Let me ask you, just as a total aside, it seems like the Bitcoin 1167 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,960 game that everybody's buying into was based upon it not being 1168 00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,760 centrally controlled. And now you have an actor who 1169 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,080 has 600,000 bitcoins out of the well, Michael Seller I think has 1170 00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:13,560 600,000 now. Something like that. 1171 00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:15,800 Yeah. So he's the largest holder other 1172 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,640 than I guess the dead Satoshi wallets. 1173 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,640 Yes. So I'm friendly with all these 1174 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:20,280 guys. Sure. 1175 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:25,080 It's not a character thing as much as does it break the game 1176 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,600 that somebody wants to buy up that much of the supply of 1177 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,480 Bitcoin. And then just as we wrap, like, 1178 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,320 I think we all expected that maybe Bitcoin would be replaced 1179 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:37,840 or hacked at some point. It hasn't been hacked. 1180 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,320 And I mean, I guess you can make arguments about, you know, the, 1181 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,800 I guess, layer twos as Solanas, the Ethereums, you know, serving 1182 00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,640 a different purpose. But is, is Bitcoin here to stay? 1183 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,560 And does this consolidation of Bitcoin into a small number of 1184 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:54,040 holders jeopardize that? Good question. 1185 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:56,080 So how should I? How do you think about this? 1186 00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,880 First is. Sounds like you're thinking of 1187 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,200 how to be politically. No, no, there's like like 10 1188 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:02,440 different dimensions to it, so I want. 1189 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,000 To give, well, let's just go right at the sale. 1190 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,800 OK, so absolutely it is. So you know, I'm actually also 1191 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,840 like an advisor to one of these Bitcoin treasury companies like 1192 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,760 Komodo Holdings just came out, Jack Muller's has done 1/21. 1193 00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,520 It's funny, two of the names that I had, 21 and Nakamoto are 1194 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,600 both being used for these Bitcoin treasury companies, 1195 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,720 right? So I think on balance it's good, 1196 00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,680 but it has risks. OK, on balance, why is it good? 1197 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,200 Because it allows Travfi, all these other people who could not 1198 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,600 put capital into Bitcoin to put capital into Bitcoin and it 1199 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,160 boost Bitcoin. It is quite possible, perhaps 1200 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:34,400 even likely, that at some point there will be an attempt for a 1201 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,480 seizure. OK, because Bitcoin at 100,000 1202 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,400 again, everybody's smiling. Bitcoin at a million, let alone 1203 00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,040 10 million. A lot of that, that is the 1204 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,480 flippanting, right? Somewhere, you know, a long time 1205 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,080 ago, my friend Olaf and I calculated that somewhere 1206 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,200 between 100,000 and $1,000,000 for Bitcoin is the billionaire 1207 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,320 flippanting. When most billionaires become 1208 00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,920 crypto, there's about 2000 gold billionaires somewhere around 1209 00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,640 that range, there's a flip. Most billionaires become crypto, 1210 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,520 right? And then, of course, $1,000,000 1211 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:02,920 isn't worth what it's worth anymore. 1212 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,520 Faith in the dollar is eroded. And it could go very quickly 1213 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,360 from like, I don't know, maybe 300,000 to 1,000,000. 1214 00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,440 There'll be a point which there's a loss of faith in the 1215 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:12,080 currency. And it just goes like this. 1216 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:17,280 OK, Now at that moment, see, remember 2021 when Trump was not 1217 00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,280 allowed to tweet right after Jan 6, right. 1218 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,040 You and I saw the emergence of social media and in in the year, 1219 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,680 let's say 2010, remember the Social Network movie came out. 1220 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,800 Yep, you know it was absent from that movie completely. 1221 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:29,560 The winkle eyes. No, they were in. 1222 00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:30,720 They were in. Politics. 1223 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,440 Oh yeah, right. That movie basically treated 1224 00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,640 Facebook as like Universal Studios or like Disney. 1225 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,200 It was like, it was like a playground, right? 1226 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,720 It was impressive from a financial standpoint and a user 1227 00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:42,600 based standpoint. There's not a single mention of 1228 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,000 politics. No one understood what was to 1229 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,280 come, right? But over the 20 tens, all 1230 00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,120 politics became social media, right? 1231 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,360 And if in 2010, I told you that in 2021, the president of the 1232 00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,240 United States will be defined by whether or not he's able to 1233 00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:58,080 tweet, even given that the Arab Spring and other stuff had 1234 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:00,200 happened, you just said biology. You're just exaggerating. 1235 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,120 Social media just isn't that important, right? 1236 00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:05,760 It would have seemed surreal. Literally, he was silenced by a 1237 00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:07,520 cobble of four or five companies. 1238 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:09,080 Yeah. And now if I tell you de 1239 00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,640 platformed, I don't know the exact year, but by some time 1240 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:16,320 plus minus maybe 2035, a country will not exist if it doesn't 1241 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,080 have gold or digital gold. Like it literally would be 1242 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,120 insolvent. Like you're not the president if 1243 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,400 you don't have social media. You're not a country if you 1244 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,360 don't have cryptocurrency or maybe gold, right? 1245 00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,840 I think physical gold is interesting because of the 1246 00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,480 complement to crypto. It has different failure modes. 1247 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,880 States will go with physical gold and individuals and 1248 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:37,360 start-ups will go with digital gold. 1249 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,240 The reason is physical gold requires trucks, it requires 1250 00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:43,520 guys with guns, it requires like. 1251 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,560 You know, facility. Magnetometers and so on. 1252 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,880 So like something like China, like a state can protect that 1253 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,480 because they've got little guys with guns around it and they go 1254 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,440 and you know, like the Korean Demilitarized Zone. 1255 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,240 You can imagine something like that between Russia and China 1256 00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:55,920 where they just hang each other gold bricks every day or 1257 00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,160 whatever, right, to do settlement, right? 1258 00:55:57,600 --> 00:55:59,760 So something like that could work between countries that 1259 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,040 basically their embassies become places for gold settlement. 1260 00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,080 I think that's very possible, but that's too much fixed cost 1261 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:06,120 for an individual, right? Right. 1262 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,280 And also gold bricks can be detected when you go through 1263 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:09,880 metal detectors. That may be the real purpose of 1264 00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:12,080 TSA actually, Right. OK. 1265 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,600 So point being though, to your to your point, it is possible 1266 00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,120 that seizure orders do happen when Bitcoin gets to a certain 1267 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,400 level, then what happens? All the Bitcoin that is not able 1268 00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:26,080 to be seized, it's free Bitcoin is actually more valuable #1 #2 1269 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:30,680 is, I think that even in an economy which is Bitcoin 1270 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:33,120 maximalist, don't, I don't, I'm not a Bitcoin maximalist. 1271 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:35,160 But they don't understand or they don't want to accept this 1272 00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,960 point that there will be other assets besides digital gold. 1273 00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,120 Of course, because you're, you know, the Bitcoin itself is 1274 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,400 like, it's expensive to transact. 1275 00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:49,440 When you're transacting, it'll be a small number of daily 1276 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:50,360 transactions. Relatively. 1277 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,160 It's about the scale of Fedwire, by the way, Fedwire about 1278 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,520 500,000 daily transactions. Bitcoin's about the same high 1279 00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,920 denomination transactions that are infrequent. 1280 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,640 That's what Bitcoin is. Everything else will go to 1281 00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:05,240 Ethereum, Solana, you know, like privacy coins and so on and so 1282 00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:07,760 forth, right? And and other chains like this 1283 00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,400 because you just want to have all that traffic on just one 1284 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,360 chain. So already you have, you know, 1285 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,520 for example, USTCUSTT on other chains. 1286 00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,440 You have smart contracts under chains, you have privacy under 1287 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,400 chains because Bitcoin is immutable and these other things 1288 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,120 aren't. Now what are the risks of 1289 00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,600 Bitcoin? One is seizure, 2 is quantum 1290 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:26,840 right? So we definitely need quantum 1291 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,760 resistant Bitcoin. And that's that's not farcical 1292 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:31,640 in. Your that's not farcical. 1293 00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:37,320 No, no, it's completely it's. Probable, and it's possible in 1294 00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:39,280 the short term, and it's probable in the long term. 1295 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,280 Yes, the main issue with with quantum is not that there isn't 1296 00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,280 a solution on the radar for Bitcoin, because with quantum 1297 00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,160 decryption you can also have quantum encryption. 1298 00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:51,280 The key question is, is quantum decryption something where we 1299 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:55,600 can put a quantum safe algorithm in in place and time and people 1300 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,080 think we can. The hard part is moving every 1301 00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,200 coin from the old address to the new quantum safe address could 1302 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,200 take almost a year. So a lot of old coins could get 1303 00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:05,640 raided in that time, right? So then there's various. 1304 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,600 Wild to think about that you might even be better off just 1305 00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:13,240 starting a new product. There might be a QBTC or 1306 00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,680 something like that, right? But in a sense, even if Bitcoin 1307 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,680 only achieves its objective now, one thing you get by the way is 1308 00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,440 what's called social reset, right? 1309 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:26,160 Social reset could be something where the community just agrees 1310 00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,880 between themselves that we're just going to snapshot the chain 1311 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:33,120 at this point in time and move it over to this new chain. 1312 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,040 Wild. OK, so that is a non-technical 1313 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,080 but social kind of thing, which I think is absolutely going to 1314 00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:39,040 happen at some point. Wow. 1315 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,760 Right, because Bitcoin is there's more Bitcoiners than 1316 00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:45,360 there are Americans, right? More many hundreds of millions 1317 00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,360 worldwide, right? And importantly, Bitcoin appeals 1318 00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,200 to a lot of people in China. Why? 1319 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,120 Because money. The party can't cease. 1320 00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,160 Yeah. So even as American culture 1321 00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,240 unfortunately becoming less appealing to people in China, 1322 00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:58,520 Internet culture is still valuable, right? 1323 00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:00,120 They still need the free Internet. 1324 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,080 They still want GitHub, right? They still want Bitcoin, They 1325 00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:04,720 still want these things. Hundreds of millions of people 1326 00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,480 in China still like these things, right? 1327 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,800 That's what I call the Chinese capitalist party, right? 1328 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,240 So, you know, as sad as it is to see America lose its soft power, 1329 00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:15,640 the Internet still has it and it's still rising, right? 1330 00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:19,120 So to your point, I think we're going to see all kinds of crazy 1331 00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:20,520 drama. Remember, with social media all 1332 00:59:20,520 --> 00:59:22,040 the edge cases that people talked about. 1333 00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,720 Actually, you remember in the late 2000s when people talked 1334 00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:26,760 about deplatforming, it was corporate deplatforming. 1335 00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,320 It was like, oh gosh, what was the company with AZ Zynga that 1336 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:31,840 got, you know, Mark Minkus's company? 1337 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,520 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or Meerkat pushed off at 1338 00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:35,920 Twitter, right? So that was corporate 1339 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:37,320 deplatforming. Then there was ideological 1340 00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:39,960 deplatforming, but every possible abuse of social media, 1341 00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:41,680 the censorship, this and the other happened. 1342 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:45,400 And in the years to come, every possible crazy attack on crypto 1343 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,240 is going to happen. But because there's so many 1344 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:51,280 coins, it'll be very difficult to take the currency of the 1345 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,600 people, by the people, for the people from this earth. 1346 00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,040 On that note, gosh, congratulations on taking a lot 1347 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,160 of theories and making them into reality. 1348 01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,640 You're six months into this journey but it's clear you 1349 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:07,560 struck a nerve and I think that you're doing important work as a 1350 01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,120 backstop against. You know, people being cynical 1351 01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,440 and not thinking that new things can't be tried. 1352 01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,320 So I wish you great success with your network, school, state and 1353 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,840 the the believers in it. I think that's kind of the most 1354 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:24,000 interesting part is that you've assembled hundreds of people in 1355 01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,160 person and 10s of thousands of people online who actually 1356 01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,840 believe that this audacious project is worth their energy 1357 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,000 and their time and their geography. 1358 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:35,040 So. Congratulations. 1359 01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:36,480 Thank you. I'll say one last thing, which 1360 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:40,120 is people you're watching supply to networkschoolns.com and also 1361 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,920 if you're an Angel investor or VC and so on, we have space. 1362 01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:47,200 So personal runway, basically $18,000 a year. 1363 01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:52,640 Like that'll carry you a. 125K incubator check will go with two 1364 01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:54,400 founders. Couple years more, yeah. 1365 01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,160 Well, so actually way more than that, right. 1366 01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,680 So basically, so if you have, if you're, if you can't get to the 1367 01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,000 US on a, on a visa, if you just want to cut your burn, apply to 1368 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,600 NS and if you're an investor, we can take your companies. 1369 01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:07,080 We've got plenty of space and so and so. 1370 01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,160 It's a great pitch. Great. 1371 01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:09,200 All right, we'll see you all next time. 1372 01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:09,440 Bye. Bye.