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All right, Hemeth, welcome to 
the Number State podcast. 

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So you introduce yourself, 
you're at lightspeed. 

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We worked here at a six and 
eight. 

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Go ahead. 
Yeah, thank you for having me. 

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Been looking forward to this for
a long time. 

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Malazi. 
Yeah. 

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So for the folks that don't know
me, I'm Amith. 

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I'm Malpatra and all the Parkers
at Lightspeed. 

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ISP is a global venture capital 
firm that invests across 

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different regions. 
Basically, we are aware of our 

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pressure base. 
And India is like 1.8 bill, 

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something like that. 
India, yeah, you manage about 

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1.5 to 1.8 bill in the capital, 
very early stage focus. 

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You also have a growth front 
there, presence in China, 

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presence in Europe, presence in 
the US and the way that we don't

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have an office or team, we 
certainly have investments like 

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in America and African Vicures. 
Yeah. 

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And then before Lightspeed, I 
would like to you and then I was

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like, yeah, known you for maybe 
7-8 years before that even. 

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Oh, it's a fun story that I 
don't think you would remember. 

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Yeah, go. 
I don't know. 

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So before it's the scene, yeah, 
I would like Google, Yes. 

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And I was part of this small 
team of people led by a guy 

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named David Glaser, the genius 
Lily guy who was trying to kind 

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of saw the wave of or his thesis
was that in 10 years from then 

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the next noble laureate in 
Biome, PA by a statistician, but

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not yeah, Marix not a not a bet 
lab. 

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Which just happened. 
With domestic, Yeah, yeah, just 

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happened recently, two years 
back. 

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So. 
And what was Google's all going 

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to be there? 
You're going to be the computer.

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The computer for that. 
So he pulled together a small 

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group of people and they call 
you Google Genomics. 

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And one of the people you wanted
to work with was a company 

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called Console. 
That's right, my first one. 

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Yeah. 
So if you were there, so I 

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remember getting on a bunch of 
phone calls, trying very hard to

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get in touch with you and then 
getting on a full convalia kind 

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of convince you that we was 
build cloud to do all of the 

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analysis. 
I may remember this. 

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That's right. 
And I think we were, I think we 

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were using AWS at the time or 
something like that probably. 

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And I was just like, I mean, 
Google was great, but I was, I 

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remember actually, was that the 
time of App Engine? 

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App Engine was popular there, 
yeah. 

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And the problem is App Engine 
before Google Clive was 

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something that if you're just 
doing exactly what Google wanted

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you to do, it works. 
And but then if it was almost 

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like A blog where like if you if
you want to do just a blog, it 

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was fine. 
If you want to do something 

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outside of it, it wasn't right. 
It was just like Java, and I 

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think about Java is it'll let 
you not do anything stupid, but 

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won't anything smart either. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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That's right. 
That's right. 

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And I think, I mean, cloud has 
obviously evolved a lot since 

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then. 
And it it, you know, with the 

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whole genomics thing, by the 
way, what's funny about sorry, 

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were you going to say something 
more? 

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Yeah, So with the whole genomics
thing, that is the space which 

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should be much bigger. 
And it's kind of being quietly 

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growing. 
Like, I mean, 23andMe recently 

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went bankrupt, unfortunately. 
But with 23andMe answersyou.com,

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like sequencing has really 
radically increased, right? 

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But it hasn't increased as much 
as it should. 

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Like everybody should have a 
personal genome on their 

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computer. 
And so it should be an important

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file. 
It should be an app that's top 

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of mind. 
And part of the reason it hasn't

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is that FDA attacked a bowl 
space and basically said that 

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you can't offer interpretations 
of genetic tests and results and

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so on and so forth. 
And we're now very fortunate 

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that it's gotten beaten back 
because with AI, you can now 

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interpret genetic test 
diagnostic, Softer can do that. 

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It can do that better than a 
doctor can, right? 

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The entire concept of, oh, you 
can't use AI to interpret your 

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own test results was the kind of
thing that that FDA would have 

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blocked AI from doing and said 
it's an unregulated medical 

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device. 
All those things have to be 

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sensed or has to be bottlenecked
through a doctor, right? 

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So we may be able to take 
another crack at that now that 

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the regulatory state can't block
that anymore, right? 

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Or at least much less powerful 
than it was. 

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And so AI enabled medicine is 
going to be a big thing, but it 

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required so much infrastructure 
to sort of break past the 

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regulatory state, the American 
regulatory state in order to do 

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that on. 
And I don't know if you did you 

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guys, was that on your radar at 
that time? 

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No, not the, not the regulatory 
part, probably. 

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The regular part we did not care
about. 

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Yeah, they try a lot to get to 
what you would call the baseline

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study of human populations. 
So yeah, at least have a 

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baseline genome kind of right 
already. 

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And then, you know, because 
Google being Google, they tried 

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it in a way that people did not 
like. 

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Yeah, they're very sussed. 
Right, right. 

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Couldn't trust a big 
conglomerate like Google so 

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nobody would upload their 
genomic data. 

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This is a Google Health and they
tried to, yeah. 

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Exactly right. 
So my team LED a lot of bad and 

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it didn't work out. 
And we want to build a Federated

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data set that those could use at
some time where a Pfizer could 

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use or a clinic could use for 
germline studies or specific, 

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you know, like rare diseases. 
And they're really matters a 

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lot. 
And we just couldn't get there. 

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That's the context of that. 
We met very briefly. 

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And I remember I've tracked your
journey for many, many years 

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and, you know, glad you've paid 
in touch and yeah, finally. 

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Yeah, that's good. 
And I think in E6 and Z1 of the 

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reasons I got into BTC was 
because and crypto and so is 

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that only when I started a 
company did I understand how big

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a deal the regulatory state was.
And it was only it was DNA that 

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in in a sense made me get into 
BTC, right? 

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Because as as an academic, the 
government is basically friendly

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to 
someofthe.edaddressonceyouvegota.com

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they think of you as like an 
evil for profit company, 

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especially in a regulated 
industry, the regulators are 

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like the police, right? 
And if you understand how there 

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can be sometimes bad police, you
understand how there can be bad 

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regulators, right? 
And so this was something where 

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I realized actually, you know, 
do you go and try and reform 

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this? 
Do you make this or that and 

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around the process? 
And certainly people have tried 

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that, but ultimately I, I 
realized it's actually easier, 

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just like it's easier to start 
Bitcoin than reform the Fed. 

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It's actually like actually 
easier to do that, right? 

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It's easier to get a new 
jurisdiction than to reform the 

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FDA, right? 
It's easier to start a new city 

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than reform San Francisco. 
That's fundamentally the press, 

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right? 
And there's a lot of people who 

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are working on a reform and, you
know, reform, there's power of 

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it's 99 to 1, something like 
that, more than that 99.999 

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point 99. 
But we do need to be able to opt

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out of the existing system and 
build something else rail. 

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And it's funny, there's all 
kinds of verbal tricks that 

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people will use, like to keep 
you within the existing system 

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and say, Oh my God, you're a 
traitor. 

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Why are you leaving? 
You're, you know, right Or you 

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know, you're a coward. 
Why don't you stay and fight or 

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something like that, right? 
Or, you know, you need to be 

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part of the process. 
You can't just, you know, leave,

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you know, this kind of thing. 
And I understand where that 

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comes from. 
And sometimes obviously you 

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don't leave in a precipitate 
way, You know, you try to fix it

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and some suffer. 
But at a certain point, and 

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everybody's points is different,
you realize that system cannot 

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be fixed, right? 
And further capital, further 

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time for their energy going 
after it doesn't work. 

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That's what Elon just realized. 
Yeah. 

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He literally tweeted out. 
Did my best. 

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Yeah, right. 
So you know what comes to X-ray 

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anyway, Go ahead. 
Yeah. 

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This is interesting because it 
reminded me of and we should 

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talk about your Bitcoin journey 
which are curious about that 

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too. 
So it's what you were saying 

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about it is sometimes easier to 
create a new system versus 

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change an existing only system. 
It seems to be true as long as 

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mythology as almost as far back 
as Indian mythology has been 

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around. 
And even then it was easier to 

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build a new heaven versus to 
elevate yourselves into the old 

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heaven. 
So it makes sense that you're 

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planning to do what you're 
planning to do. 

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I admire you for. 
That yeah, I, I, well, thank 

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you. 
I appreciate that. 

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And I think, well, you know, one
thing I want to do is actually, 

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so Speaking of India, let's 
maybe why don't we talk about 

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India for people who don't know 
anything about India and then 

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India for people who know 
something about India, 

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especially Indian tech, right? 
So you know, the thing about 

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India is for people who are 
Anglophones, right? 

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Like basically English speakers 
they could essentially, 

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especially Americans, not the 
British of course. 

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So they had a long history with 
India, but most Americans, many 

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Anglophones, could ignore India 
until pretty recently, right 

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until last, the Indians were 
more and more prominent in text,

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starting being with vanilla, 
Khosla and so on and so forth 

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and more and more in the 2000s. 
But really India is kind of only

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popped on the radar in the last 
few years. 

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For example, Ukraine is the 
first international issue where 

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I can recall Americans, 
Europeans and so on being 

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concerned as to where India's 
position was. 

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Nobody cared where India's 
position was in Iraq that I can 

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remember. 
And we care what's position was 

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on the financial crisis that I 
can remember, nor on Syria that 

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at least that I can remember, 
right? 

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Like, but it is now become 
enough of a global player that 

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people did care about it's 
position on Ukraine. 

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And so so because that people 
need to know something about 

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India, right? 
So obviously the basics will 

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import for a billion people. 
It's, you know, this multi 1000 

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year old civilization, one thing
most people don't know is India 

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is actually a union like the 
European Union, like the United 

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States, right? 
Why don't you talk about that? 

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All these different cultures and
so on there. 

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Yeah. 
So I'll go very far back when 

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very quickly come to the present
day and tell you what's been 

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going on. 
Very old piece of land, lots of 

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complicated history. 
It used, it used to be a union 

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more around different religious 
practices that end up becoming 

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tribes and tribes end up 
becoming States and states end 

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up coming together to build a 
nation. 

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But from the very beginning, it 
was always 5 or 10 tribes that 

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were kind of dominating in 
India. 

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There were southern tribes, 
there were northeastern tribes, 

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there were, you know, northern 
tribes and so on eastern tribes.

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And we expanded, you know, all 
the way out to Iran, Afghanistan

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for the longest time. 
So the first and only 4000 years

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ago, 2000 BC, 2000 BC, This is, 
you know, what Indian Qataris 

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parole looked like in 
ammunication of a variety of 

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cultures and and so on 
spreading, you know, all the way

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to Afghanistan, Iran on the left
and then, you know, to the 

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right. 
And at that point, and for the 

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longest time of II's history, we
were almost 1/4 to 1/3 of the 

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global economy. 
That's that chart. 

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That chart, yeah. 
If it goes from 30% and then it 

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kind of very quickly shrinks in 
the last 500 years of 2% with 

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the with the rulers that have 
come from pretty much everywhere

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around to occupy India. 
But the longest time China and 

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India were the dominant, you 
know, players in the global 

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economy. 
And the global economy was part 

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manufacturing, where the 
manufacturing meant back then 

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part trade and so on. 
And the country obviously was a 

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big part. 
And then that probably stayed 

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till that, you know, for about 2
to 3000 years that kind of 

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stayed very stable. 
It doesn't really change that 

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much. 
There's a bit of up and down 

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here, but it doesn't change 
much. 

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And that's been the history of 
India and also to a certain 

228
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,160
extent Shia 4-5 hundred years 
ago, of course, and we'll talk 

229
00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,040
more about that. 
The bigger you get, the more 

230
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,520
attention you grab. 
And India build roads to the 

231
00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,400
world, the roads also come to 
you and it becomes easier for 

232
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,360
people to come to you. 
And that's what started to 

233
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,480
happen. 
Peaceful and peaceful people, 

234
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,720
not so peaceful people coming 
right? 

235
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,600
Especially in the Northwest. 
Yeah, probably more ambition. 

236
00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:28,000
It's fine and fair to say they 
may have had more ambition to 

237
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,080
occupy and they may have had 
more ambition to. 

238
00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,720
Terminology or going even 
further back, Yeah. 

239
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,560
Correct. 
So cultural differences and 

240
00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:37,400
then. 
Northeast that much because it's

241
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,480
impassable to the Himalayas, 
yes, Yeah. 

242
00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:41,440
Yeah. 
So majority of it came from the 

243
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,280
left and off and then the once a
state like that, which is anyway

244
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,960
loosely put together a group of 
people that were somewhat 

245
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,320
cooperating versus 
collaborating, when it starts to

246
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,120
crack, the cracks don't you 
know, disappear very quickly. 

247
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,000
So we had, you know, 1 crack 
appear with the Islamic State 

248
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,400
coming in and occupying and then
that crack continue to reserve, 

249
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,760
you know, extend from there. 
And then of course, the 

250
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,960
Britishers came and at one time 
I remember the math, but then 

251
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,440
they took out about $40 trillion
of, you know, some very harsh 

252
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,840
number in today's dollars back 
to, you know, dominions. 

253
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,880
And then India basically is 
trying from being a, you know, 

254
00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,320
hyper capita GB country with 
manufacturing, trade, 

255
00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:29,960
agriculture to basically 
subsistence level GDP and 

256
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,040
primarily a resource state for 
other countries. 

257
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,440
And then that that was, this is 
Fast forward to maybe, you know,

258
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,240
maybe 100 years ago, like 5070 
years ago roughly. 

259
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,760
And then we got independent from
independence to now. 

260
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,720
And I had the story of how 
states change shape and 

261
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,360
philosophy. 
I feel like, and, and maybe this

262
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:51,800
has happened with other 
countries and we should talk 

263
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:56,040
more about that. 
You have this period of shape. 

264
00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,400
A country goes through a period 
of shame and a country goes 

265
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:07,000
through a period of regret, a 
period of realization, a period 

266
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,120
of hard work and then a period 
of a sentence. 

267
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,760
Yeah. 
And these things can take 7080 

268
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,000
and 80 years sometimes. 
It depends on a lot of factors 

269
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,000
of. 
Course, it's usually say a 

270
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,200
regret, right? 
Because I I'm not so the 

271
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,040
realization I'd say in 1991 when
India liberalized hard work made

272
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,280
the last 30 years and now a 
sentence right. 

273
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:29,600
Why would you characterize 
regret as or is that not the 

274
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,880
right word? 
I I'd call it socialism. 

275
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,840
Socialism, yeah. 
I don't know if the population 

276
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,120
regrets it. 
It's certainly think people who 

277
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,360
could have taken decisions 
differently might regret it. 

278
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,920
But it was the sure, sure. 
Certainly the limit of shame. 

279
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,040
We were that stuff. 
Yeah. 

280
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,720
Yeah, we were that, right. 
And look at our history and all 

281
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,800
that. 
And you carry the video and then

282
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,320
you look at the president. 
Oh, my God. 

283
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,320
Like I'm a 2% DDP country, 
right? 

284
00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,480
World War. 
And what was I in my own memory,

285
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,920
you would say, 100 years ago? 
You probably were in a powerful 

286
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,280
state back then. 
So that regret leads to, you 

287
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,680
know, hard work and eventually, 
eventually. 

288
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:11,480
Hard work. 
Once there's acceptance of we're

289
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,120
not great anymore and we mark 
down and we're at 0 and kind of 

290
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,360
people quit thrashing and 
screaming. 

291
00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,880
They're like, OK, we have to 
build our way back up. 

292
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,320
Nothing but for it, right. 
Yeah. 

293
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,080
And you know, it's funny, like 
Argentina seems to have maybe 

294
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,760
bottomed out and may finally be 
there El Salva or maybe bottomed

295
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,200
out. 
And now it's like on its way up.

296
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,720
China bottomed out. 
It's on its way up. 

297
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,920
You know. 
Well, it seems really improving.

298
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:36,920
I think. 
I don't know if it's bottomed 

299
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,520
out. 
Yeah, like, but they they 

300
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,120
definitely have crashed, right. 
Vietnam bottomed down as long as

301
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:47,320
the way up. 
So yes, OK, so basics India has 

302
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,120
so one thing it's it's a union, 
right? 

303
00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,560
So a lot of people don't know 
that India has like in a sense, 

304
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,320
the difference between a like a 
2 million or a Telugu person and

305
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,280
a Gujarati is like there's 
between a Italian and a Finn, 

306
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,000
right? 
Because like, you know, the 

307
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,480
North and South like these are 
pretty different cultures. 

308
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:09,880
There is certainly now an Indian
union and people travel from one

309
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,480
part or another to India, trade 
across India and nobody really 

310
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,400
thinks about it. 
There's a currency union with a 

311
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,360
repeat. 
There's transit links. 

312
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,040
You know, English and Hindi have
become nationalizing languages. 

313
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,120
People marry across various 
religions and, you know, 

314
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:24,400
regions. 
And so and so was actually 

315
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,240
pretty pretty frequently. 
And so all of that it actually, 

316
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,360
the union has actually become a 
real thing in the sense India is

317
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,120
more unified than any 
quintessary in its history, I 

318
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,160
think. 
Would you say? 

319
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,240
You know, I feel like it's a 
little bit, having lived in 

320
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,480
Europe for a while, I feel like 
it is like the European Union. 

321
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,400
Yeah, with. 
More nationalism than Europe? 

322
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,560
Yeah, more nationalism. 
So European Union with more 

323
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,640
fluid and weak memory of 
individual cultures that don't 

324
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,200
go as far back. 
Interesting. 

325
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,400
Because I'm from Orissa, but I 
know that is a culture like from

326
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,200
Kalinga days like thousands of 
years ago or Ashoka was part of 

327
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,160
that and all that. 
I would have such a strong 

328
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:06,600
memory that attaches me to 
Kalinga. 

329
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,080
Interesting. 
But a German would probably go 

330
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,800
by thousands of years and 
remember. 

331
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,440
What, you're in Italian as Rome 
and stuff like that, So that's 

332
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,960
less cultural memory. 
Less cultural memory. 

333
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:22,280
Even though it's loosely put 
together Union states, it has 

334
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,840
less cultural memories specific 
to the state. 

335
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,600
I guess language is the main. 
One language is the main one, 

336
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,200
Gujarati, Mali Ali. 
And there is the literature that

337
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,240
is more specific. 
And I would say maybe even the 

338
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,240
last 50 years that memory has 
faded. 

339
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,360
Fifty, 60-70 years ago, Bengal 
used to be the literary hub of 

340
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:40,480
the country. 
I would not. 

341
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,360
Tagore was part of that and 
something the rain was part of 

342
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,400
that. 
And today, I don't know if I 

343
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,640
mean, there's a S that has a 
Bollywood type industry called 

344
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,000
Tollywood and there's whatever. 
But then I I still personally 

345
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,040
don't feel like there is that 
much dense cultural memory that 

346
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,120
used to exist, probably ended 
200 years ago. 

347
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,320
Why is? 
It do the British and then the 

348
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,880
Mughals. 
Before them, yeah, English has 

349
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,200
played a big part. 
It's becomes a common time 

350
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:09,800
thread and you know, over the 
last 30-40 fifty years, like you

351
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:13,280
said, trade has become a little 
bit more easier between States 

352
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,560
and you know, travel, you know, 
it's you don't require a fast 

353
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,200
boat to travel anywhere in 
India. 

354
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:23,400
A currency is the same and you 
are you basically still Hawking 

355
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,599
back to a single citizenship. 
So you have that, you know, that

356
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:28,040
kind of thing that ties it 
together. 

357
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,960
So it feels like a a more 
tightly put together European 

358
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,080
Union with less cultural memory 
of individual states that create

359
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:37,960
that union. 
That's why I. 

360
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,720
Compare it to it's closer in 
some ways. 

361
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,680
I I would never believe this in 
the 1980s, nineteen 90s, when, 

362
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,840
you know, we were growing up. 
But I assume you're like also 

363
00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,040
roughly. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

364
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:53,000
So I've never have believed 
this, but in many ways, India is

365
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,360
now more similar to the America,
the 1950s, where it has like a 

366
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,360
unifying national ideology. 
And many like, just like you 

367
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:05,120
have Poles and Italians and, you
know, English and Germans and 

368
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,000
all these different European 
ethnicities in America. 

369
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,120
But there was like a common 
creed, economy, culture, common 

370
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:13,640
currency. 
That's kind of what India is to 

371
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,280
a, to an extent that I wouldn't 
have actually believed have I 

372
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,560
not seen it with my own eyes. 
And one of the consequences is 

373
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,400
even though sometimes it's like 
2 steps forward, one step back, 

374
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,040
like the public infrastructure 
has radically improved radically

375
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,040
to an like an unbelievable 
level. 

376
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,120
Like, you know, Bangalore 
airport, the airports are 

377
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,960
basically like world class. 
They're world class. 

378
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,280
They're step clean. 
They're, they're beautiful. 

379
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,600
And then you step outside and 
there's paved roads and they're 

380
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,280
new and, and they're stop. 
I mean, this kind of stuff 

381
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,680
sounds so basic, but the basics 
are actually hard because you 

382
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:49,880
have to coordinate a lot of 
people. 

383
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,240
You have to get permissions to 
build. 

384
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,320
And then, you know, the 
government can't be corrupt. 

385
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,680
And so, so sometimes it feels 2 
steps forward, one step back. 

386
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,720
But for anybody who's like part 
of the Indian diaspora who 

387
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,360
hasn't visited India in the last
five or ten years, you 

388
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,000
definitely have to visit India 
and just see how much it's 

389
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,160
improved. 
It's radically, radically, 

390
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,720
radically radically better than 
the 80s in the 90s and hours of 

391
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:11,960
the thousands. 
Absolutely. 

392
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,600
And I remember growing up and I 
mean there are things. 

393
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,160
So coming back to your question 
about what is this, Where did 

394
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:18,920
you grow? 
I grew up all over India and I 

395
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,120
thought I was in the military. 
So we kept out in particular. 

396
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,040
You have military jaw. 
Jaw in the letting festive okay 

397
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,160
the. 
Chad the Chad. 

398
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:27,480
Jaw. 
Thank you. 

399
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,040
I appreciate it. 
But yeah, I grew up in the 80s, 

400
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:34,520
and I frankly grew up without, 
you know, I grew up in a small 

401
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,200
village called the Ocean Market,
which is, you know, like as a 

402
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,200
crow flies maybe 60 kilometers 
from the border somewhere. 

403
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,400
Where, where, Where is that? 
When you were race called, it 

404
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,840
used to be called Uttara Kand. 
That's a guy's called a Ton 

405
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:51,040
chow. 
Obviously this was part of UP 

406
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:51,800
earlier. 
OK. 

407
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,000
So a bit, yeah. 
And it's not northeast, it's 

408
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,680
more like closer to Jammu and 
Kashmir and. 

409
00:19:58,680 --> 00:19:59,320
There. 
Oh, OK. 

410
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,640
North, north, yeah, north, 
north. 

411
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,240
And you know, if you know buzzy 
enough that that religious place

412
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,000
building up, it's it's the last 
stop before you got to start 

413
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,440
walking or take a meal, OK to 
get to that place. 

414
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,280
The roads don't really show. 
Take cards. 

415
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,400
I didn't used it at the time. 
Yeah, at the time. 

416
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,000
So group there. 
You know, we would have 

417
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,160
basically no hot water and gonna
boil it. 

418
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,800
We didn't have heater so we 
would have wood in a thing 

419
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,880
called Bukhara. 
But you put wood in it had a 

420
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:24,960
chinny, it goes out of the 
house. 

421
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,320
You don't die of monoxide, but 
twice a day just. 

422
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,600
Literally growing up, no hot 
water that was low. 

423
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:33,840
In a very cold place and and no 
electricity because you remember

424
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,200
used to use this thing called 
Petromex to study at 9 and stuff

425
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,840
it was a beautiful part of my 
life I remember I'm in a 

426
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,920
heartbeat retire in the 
Himalayas because. 

427
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,120
The thing The thing is that like
because of that, because so many

428
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:49,680
Indians have an upbringing 
that's like that they are in 

429
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,200
general like I'm there's a daily
set back or something like that,

430
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,920
but in general the trajectory 
has. 

431
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,520
Just been up. 
Yeah, you're actually valued 2 

432
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,120
steps forward, one step by 
sometimes 2 steps back. 

433
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:03,400
But there is absolutely a 
crediting for us that's 

434
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,640
happening in India. 
Like gradually you are 

435
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,800
ferociously moving up and up and
up and from. 

436
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,080
No hub order to finding hot 
start-ups. 

437
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:12,760
Yeah, yeah, finding hot 
start-ups. 

438
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,840
Yeah. 
So now let's Fast forward a 

439
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,920
little bit from the 80s, 
nineties, which was I would say 

440
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,520
maybe the transition treated for
India when in the 90s Manmohan 

441
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:22,960
Singh kind of opened up the 
economy. 

442
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,440
And then, you know, foreign 
companies come in, you know, 

443
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,800
create competition in the local 
economy before what was called 

444
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,040
license Raj, like to get a 
license to do a business, you 

445
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,560
had to get a license from the 
government. 

446
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,840
It was kind of ridiculous. 
I'm glad I'm not, I was not ABC 

447
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,160
back then. 
I don't think you could ever do 

448
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,440
anything like that. 
But risk taking was essentially 

449
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,080
not allowed, likely a lot more 
socialistic. 

450
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,560
And I think we opened up and 
then I think since then, you 

451
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,920
know, we were, I don't know, 
maybe 5 hundred $600 million GDP

452
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,400
country. 
And now we are sitting at 

453
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,640
roughly 4 trillion. 
And a lot of that growth has 

454
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,080
happened in the last, you know, 
10 to 15 years. 

455
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,240
And we've gone through multiple 
regime changes and demographics 

456
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,560
have changed. 
And now I feel like now it's 

457
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:12,680
coming together in a way where 
society is hungry. 

458
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:20,560
There is a government that is 
not a group of politicians were 

459
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,320
politicking. 
It feels like in good pockets, 

460
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,280
good number of pockets. 
It's a government that is 

461
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,320
interested in administrate 
because for India. 

462
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,920
That's that's a big thing like 
the the government is actually 

463
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,760
now interested in building the 
platform that Indians can build 

464
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,440
on, right? 
As opposed to just taking the 

465
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,920
money or we have you like 
they've come in a positive 

466
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,280
direction, which is it's way 
easier to have a government that

467
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,160
goes corrupt than to one have 
one that actually ascends and 

468
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,960
becomes, you know, better. 
And it's, you know, it's a, it's

469
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,720
been a journey, I can tell you 
very openly as corruption is 

470
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,080
still a problem in India. 
And maybe the low level stock is

471
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,640
still hard to do. 
But again, the whole point of 

472
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,040
being, you know, stepping 
forward or slowly by stepping 

473
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,560
forward but not moving back, I 
think that feels like it's in 

474
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,480
monotonically increasing pace 
that India is AT. 

475
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,920
And I, I was in the USI grew up 
in India. 

476
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,000
I was in the US from all three 
to 2018. 

477
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,240
And I moved back in 2018. 
And I remember writing about it 

478
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,360
online, a piece that, you know, 
if you Google return for India, 

479
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:24,120
this still shows up in the first
page. 

480
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,120
And I was quite shocked that it 
showed up because I was getting 

481
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,240
so many people thinking on 
LinkedIn, like, oh, you're 

482
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,560
fighting space. 
I remember moving it out. 

483
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,280
This is actually become a 
popular piece. 

484
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,440
And I remember talking about it 
that when I moved back from US 

485
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:41,280
to India in 2018, I had to 
change very little about my 

486
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,880
life. 
I replaced Hulu with All Star. 

487
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,240
Netflix worked in the US the 
same way in India, Amazon worked

488
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:54,080
the same way it worked in India.
I had to replace Lyft with Ola 

489
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,480
and Uber works exactly the same.
I still have my US credit card 

490
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,400
and my Uber because there's no 
ADP stuff going on. 

491
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,880
It just goes through and what 
else? 

492
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,160
Like, you know, I what'sapp as 
payments and all those things 

493
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,720
just worked out completely fine 
for. 

494
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,000
Me. 
That's because I think Internet 

495
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,560
first is actually the way I 
think about the world versus 

496
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,080
country first in traverse, 
right? 

497
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:19,440
Yeah, that's a great point. 
I was living in it. 

498
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,000
I didn't realize it. 
I was not living as much in the 

499
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,680
physical infrastructure as I was
living in the vigil 

500
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,440
infrastructure. 
Yes in the US And all I had to 

501
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,240
do was I literally moved back at
2 backs. 

502
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,160
It's 2 bags of 15 years of 
light. 

503
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,760
Two big bags would have to. 
Buy it or known it. 

504
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,880
It was the offline stuff, the 
Fiat stuff that took longer, the

505
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,080
cloud stuff you could just log 
in and get back to work. 

506
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,720
Right, I had no how then? 
No car, no scooter, no 

507
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,120
motorcycle, nothing. 
Yeah, The only thing you have to

508
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,320
change, like maybe you have to 
get residency right, you have 

509
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,960
OCI or? 
No, you always see here. 

510
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,320
Yeah, I was an H1B for 15 years 
in the US. 

511
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,000
OK, got it. 
And I just didn't have a green 

512
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,400
card, OK. 
But I just ships it. 

513
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,800
So that was easy. 
That was easy. 

514
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,360
Yeah. 
Yeah, but even if I were a green

515
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,680
card holder, OCI now is easy to 
get. 

516
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,840
So you basically have a digital 
passport of sorts and you live 

517
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,720
in two countries. 
But yeah, overseas it is, yeah. 

518
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,840
It was a very smooth move. 
Now, again, I'll talk more about

519
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,880
the India move if you're 
interested. 

520
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,240
But yeah, it felt like a pretty 
straightforward move to me. 

521
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,040
And then, yeah, there was a bit 
of this, you know, 20 years ago,

522
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,000
10 years ago, you would feel 
this culture shock. 

523
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:26,840
I didn't feel any culture shock.
You were 20 years ago, you would

524
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,960
feel an infrastructure shock. 
I felt a lot less of the 

525
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,160
infrastructure shock. 
So there's pollution in India. 

526
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,960
And if Delhi is much worse than 
Bagalore and Goa is much better 

527
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:41,640
than many cities here in the US 
And, you know, there is traffic,

528
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,360
of course, but I remember being 
stuck on 101 in SF for many 

529
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,280
hours. 
So it's not that better than 

530
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,880
different, except somebody 
drives you but more cheaply in 

531
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:55,640
India versus in the US And 
politics is is nowhere in the 

532
00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,440
world is is good or great. 
So India is basically no better 

533
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,480
or worse than any other country.
I you know, The thing is, I I 

534
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,520
disagree. 
I actually think India will be 

535
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:11,560
India is going to be I think a 
dark horse in terms of it's 

536
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,640
surprisingly well run. 
What's one example the votes for

537
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,200
the recent election, they were 
counted in a day right for a 

538
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,400
billion person country. 
And so while the US, it took 

539
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,880
like weeks, months to get it 
done right. 

540
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,800
And that just shows that steep 
capacity is on some axes 

541
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,600
actually flipped, right. 
UPI is very, very good, other is

542
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,800
very good. 
You have criticisms of these 

543
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,080
systems, but an identity system 
that works for a billion people 

544
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,160
on a payment system that works 
for a billion people, a voting 

545
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,520
system that works for a billion 
people, that's pretty good. 

546
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,880
Yeah, right. 
I mean, ISRO is landed a probe 

547
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,360
on the dark side of the moon. 
We have these new, you know, 

548
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,480
trains, we have these new, you 
know, highways and stuff in 

549
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,960
India, all this kind of stuff 
that, you know, the airports, 

550
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,680
right. 
And and yet it's still it's 

551
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,280
still at the J curb. 
It's still at the bottom of the 

552
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,280
of the upward trajectory. 
And the way I think about that, 

553
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,360
and I'd love to know your 
thoughts on it is now that it's 

554
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,840
overlands Geo, we have cheapest,
you know, the cheapest 5G 

555
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,160
Internet service in the world, 
right. 

556
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,440
And all of these things we 
observe in India, and that's 

557
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,600
actually quite new. 
Yeah. 

558
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,520
You know, what else am I 
missing? 

559
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,800
Those are pretty. 
There's a whole tech ecosystem 

560
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,560
there, right? 
Yeah. 

561
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:28,600
Good. 
Help me also. 

562
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,480
Yeah, so absolutely right. 
You're not missing anything big.

563
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,520
Maybe what I would add to that 
is India a bit the Geo thing 

564
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,680
that happened nine years ago. 
Now, I think India has one of 

565
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,800
the most digitally awake 
population in the world in terms

566
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,880
of volume in the time this. 
Past you see a few periods about

567
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:49,840
Blastia. 
Yeah. 

568
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,400
So, so in 2015, Vocation Ambani,
who was, you know, one of the 

569
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,800
main guys that, you know, the 
biggest controller in India 

570
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,000
called Reliance, basically took 
this generational bet. 

571
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,120
He said that I'm going to spend 
10, fifteen, $20 billion and 

572
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,400
literally put it in blue brown. 
He dug up places because you 

573
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,440
know you can't when you're that 
big, you can take anything you 

574
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:11,880
want in the government 
relationship to it. 

575
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,920
But he did it in a way that 
actually was quite strategic and

576
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:19,400
really has changed the nation's 
trajectory. 

577
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,480
He essentially provided 
literally free Internet to, you 

578
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,720
know, the entire country, Indian
in India. 

579
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:33,680
For those that, for folks that 
don't know, the price of 4G and 

580
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,640
L5G is let me tell you what I 
what I pay. 

581
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:45,080
I pay about ₹170 per month and 
that about two and a half, $2.00

582
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,440
on roughly. 
For 5G Internet. 

583
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,080
For 5G Internet and I have a 
three GD per day limit. 

584
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,800
So you don't hit. 
That basically I never hit that.

585
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,360
And if I don't hit it, it's 
sometimes there are some plans 

586
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:58,920
that Eddie rolls over to the 
next one. 

587
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,160
Signal and watch TV on Netflix 
on. 

588
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,960
It's like basically 100 X that 
amount in the US, yeah. 

589
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,960
Yeah, so it was crazy for me and
I don't. 

590
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:08,520
Want the XI? 
Don't know something like that. 

591
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,720
Yeah, and Netflix in India is 
699 versus whatever it is in the

592
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,280
USI mean, so on and so forth. 
Sure. 

593
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,600
So digital infrastructure has 
become so cheap, and cell phones

594
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,840
cost maybe less than $100 in 
the. 699 in the sense of zero 

595
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:23,120
₹90.00. 
Rupees. 

596
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,520
Yes, Rupees. 
That's about less than $10. 

597
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,280
Yeah. 
So when? 

598
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,200
When? 
When Jio essentially digitized 

599
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,960
the entire country, they became 
the rails on which everything 

600
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,600
else kind of got built out. 
Quasi public, quasi private 

601
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,880
infrastructure. 
Quasi public, quasi private, 

602
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,280
they had the spectrum and kind 
of and all that good stuff. 

603
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,960
And now, now we've got world's 
cheapest phones and then most 

604
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,040
people have several phones. 
Like, you know, I know people 

605
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,920
that are in the up and coming 
part of society that actually 

606
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,560
have two phones. 
You drive in a, in a Orangash in

607
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,760
India, it'll have two phones, 
one for roll out, one for Uber, 

608
00:29:58,760 --> 00:29:59,800
and it can take the rides on 
both. 

609
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,360
And these are both phones that 
probably cost us in ₹10,000. 

610
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,640
So that's been very interesting 
to see. 

611
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,440
And on top of that, you could 
then, you know, then you get 

612
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,920
distribution, mass distribution,
you can build interesting 

613
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,600
companies and extend them more 
quickly and learn what, you 

614
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,680
know, what works for a consumer 
versus not. 

615
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,840
So we started to see this 
venture ecosystem come up and 

616
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,480
take more bets and funders 
coming up and, you know, going 

617
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,000
on building riskier, riskier 
things. 

618
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,560
And then, you know, then we saw,
you know, essentially this 

619
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,520
massive amount of 
entrepreneurial energy sort of 

620
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,720
just really coming out and just 
like bursting at the seams. 

621
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,040
So the last 10 years, India, 
I've just been there six years 

622
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,800
now. 
I think it's been a remarkable 

623
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,160
shift in terms of the risk 
appetite the nation is going to 

624
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,280
take in terms of the 
infrastructure build out the 

625
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,040
country is doing. 
We spent more in infrastructure 

626
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,760
bent out in the last five to six
years than we spend in the last 

627
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,760
70 years since independence. 
And we are spending more than 

628
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,360
what we spend in the last seven 
years in the next five years. 

629
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,400
Well, the nuclear reactors are 
coming online. 

630
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,280
That's a really big one. 
Brats will be a thing of the 

631
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,280
past. 
Hopefully, if that, if those 

632
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,080
come, India is actually either 
number 2 after China or it's 

633
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,600
either there's a graph of 
nuclear reactors we can put on 

634
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,840
screen, but plain nuclear 
reactors. 

635
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,600
I think India's number 2 
actually on lots of graphs, for 

636
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,240
example, steel production, 
China's far number one. 

637
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,520
But then when you delete China 
from the graph, India is the 

638
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,360
real distant but real number 2. 
So that's on steel, that's on 

639
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,360
nuclear, solar, solar, some the 
number of unicorns, for example,

640
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,360
it's US, China, then India's 
like distant China. 

641
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,600
But it is #3 solid, right? 
So it is actually really rising 

642
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,120
and really I think underpriced 
in a sense and on on the world 

643
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:49,960
stage, right? 
And of course it's possible to 

644
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,160
over hype it. 
It's possible, but it's also to 

645
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,360
under hype it, right. 
And you know, in a sense I'm, I 

646
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,120
think I said to you, I'm 
moderately bullish in India, but

647
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,920
extremely bullish in Indians, 
right. 

648
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,720
So India as a system is getting 
good enough to be a launchpad 

649
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,160
for the world. 
And you know, one of the things 

650
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:14,160
I think a lot about is this is a
very and maybe you have some 

651
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,720
astronauts. 
So there's about 7 million or so

652
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,120
Indian Americans, right? 
I think that's a rough, rough 

653
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,200
number. 
And they're doing pretty well, 

654
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,480
right? 
Like they are, you know, 

655
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,160
producing now, now that the 
second Gen. has kind of, you 

656
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,640
know, started to grow up a bit. 
You've got, you know, people in 

657
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,520
politics like, you know, Vick or
or Chervence or or Cash Patel. 

658
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,400
You have people in in media, 
like lots of, you know, like, 

659
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,520
and I shot in love was on the 
1st, but lots of other folks, 

660
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,720
obviously tech, very, very gas 
based, finance and so on and so 

661
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,880
forth. 
But but there's like weight and 

662
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,000
of course medicine and lots of 
other professions, engineering, 

663
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,000
blah, blah. 
But there's an interesting and 

664
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,920
the diaspora has done pretty 
well in other countries and it's

665
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,840
certainly in Dubai and and the 
UAE, like that's like about 80% 

666
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,320
Indian. 
And that's a country that's 

667
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,120
doing extremely, extremely well,
right at the UAE. 

668
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,040
And but the question is how much
potential is still in India, 

669
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:11,920
right? 
Because there's a degree of 

670
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,760
selective migration, right? 
There's, you know, not many 

671
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,920
people are coming to the US or 
places they have an engineering 

672
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,920
degree or there's some 
qualification somebody back in 

673
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,000
India are at that talent level. 
And even if it's 5%, I don't 

674
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,840
know the exact number, right? 
If it's 5%, that's like 70 

675
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,280
million people out of 1.4 
billion, right? 

676
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,920
That's like 10X what the Indian 
American population is. 

677
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,760
So that's a massive new economic
disruptive force on the global 

678
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,240
stage. 
So that's like a new Germany 

679
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,040
coming on Geo, right? 
A New Japan kind of thing, you 

680
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,080
know, like at that scale coming 
online and, you know, maybe you 

681
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,840
have some thoughts on that. 
Yeah, I think look, I mean we 

682
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,720
obviously are very bullish idea.
I mean we have continued to 

683
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,240
double down the last 10 to two 
years in India. 

684
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,960
We we feel like this is where 
you know the maximum alpha is 

685
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,360
right now. 
And you're right, I think India 

686
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,480
feels underpriced even at this 
point in time for. 

687
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,920
Indians. 
Indians are under underpriced, 

688
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,480
yes. 
Where are the finished you 

689
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,679
saying I'll say something? 
What do I think about the 

690
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:19,320
potential of India? 
What of it is it's time to get 

691
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,280
realized. 
What it is, is still latent and 

692
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:28,480
will be realized. 
Oddly enough, I have been a 

693
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:34,880
lifetime skeptic of governments 
and in the context of India, I 

694
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,120
came in skeptical. 
And one interesting thing thing 

695
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:44,600
that I realized is that two 
things, One is if you are a 

696
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,040
government who is not proud of 
your country, you're not going 

697
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,400
to improve the country, right? 
If you are a human who is not 

698
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,840
part of your body, you're not 
going to improve the body. 

699
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,639
If you're somebody in a 
relationship, you're not part of

700
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:57,840
your relationship for partner, 
you're not going to improve your

701
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,800
relationship. 
For the longest time, I think 

702
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,520
India suffered. 
They were, they were. 

703
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,200
They didn't have a sense of 
national self and. 

704
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,360
Pride and never had a sense of 
national self. 

705
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,440
And there are Shades of Grey in 
there. 

706
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,480
There's a lot of, you know, 
places you can slip and fall in.

707
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,560
But I think it is an important 
thing that ties India and 

708
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,480
Indians together wherever they 
are. 

709
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,920
And I think that sense of 
national self was not there for 

710
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,160
the longest time when I was 
growing up. 

711
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,680
People just woke up and 
complained about India all the 

712
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,320
time, Right? 
Buried. 

713
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,040
In 80s and 90s, yeah. 80s and 
90s that was working. 

714
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,960
It took two years to get a 
telephone in your house and for 

715
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,560
ATV or a sand line somewhere, 
blah blah blah. 

716
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,680
Now I think there is a sense of 
rising optimism. 

717
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,400
There are pockets of pessimism 
for sure, but a sense of rising 

718
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,960
optimism as a whole. 
And so for So where am I going 

719
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,920
with this? 
I think for a country as large 

720
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,120
as in the eye, 1.4 billion 
population, you have a challenge

721
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,040
that requires a platform level 
change to happen. 

722
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,480
Duo may have been a platform 
level change. 

723
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,240
Policies of the platform level 
change the kind of governance 

724
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:03,680
and administration. 1981 
liberalization. 

725
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,720
So I see that was a moment for 
people to don't know from 

726
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:11,120
independence till roughly 91 
India was they actually wrote 

727
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,120
socialism into the constitution 
any like the socialist state of 

728
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,000
India or something like that. 
And so of course, Fabian 

729
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,400
socialism arguably was the 
second colonialism, right, 

730
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,720
because Fabian socialism came 
from Riven. 

731
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,320
And so it was something that 
kept India poor. 

732
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,760
And it was, you know, all these 
NGOs were handing out arms like 

733
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,960
the whole Mother Teresa thing is
meant for country. 

734
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,360
That's prostate, right? 
And like basically, you know, 

735
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,840
it's not actually meant. 
It's investment is more 

736
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,240
investment is real charity in a 
sense, because charity keeps 

737
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:46,880
somebody dependent and 
investment makes them 

738
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,040
independent, right? 
So charity, you know, like I 

739
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,400
said, if you give a man a fish, 
you keep them independent. 

740
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,880
But if you invest in their fish 
company, they might actually do 

741
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:59,200
something, right? 
So until basically the late 80s,

742
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,920
early 90s, Europe or India was 
essentially socialist and you 

743
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:04,920
have the license Raj, and it was
impossible to do anything. 

744
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,680
And talented Indians were just 
either like cat poor where they 

745
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,480
left, right. 
And then 1991, because of the 

746
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,680
crisis, you know, the Soviet 
Union fell and so on. 

747
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,000
And socialism was clearly not 
the way to go. 

748
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,040
India made the right turn. 
Now, by the way, that wasn't 

749
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,520
guaranteed, like Cuba remain 
communist, North Korea being 

750
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,760
communist, right? 
So is the right leadership who 

751
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,240
saw the right opportunity at the
right time and took the right 

752
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:30,040
door. 
And India, it went at least 

753
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,320
somewhat capitalist. 
Yeah. 

754
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,200
And there's still a million 
criticism you can have like air 

755
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,920
conditioning is taxed and it's 
by the way, if there's one thing

756
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,200
we should get all Indian VCR 
founders and so on, basically 

757
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,920
repeal the tags, the luxury like
the Indian air conditioning tax 

758
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,160
of all the things. 
That's a very simple line item 

759
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:54,680
thing to repeal will completely 
transform idea, right? 

760
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,960
Yeah, the dog, you have a new 
thing where you could not, where

761
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,160
you cannot put your air 
conditioning to 19°C. 

762
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,520
There's some something. 
Something stupid like this, 

763
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,200
right? 
But, but at least that one is a 

764
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,760
little harder to enforce or 
whatever, right? 

765
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:11,160
The the AC tax though, is just, 
you know, Lee Kuan Yew knew air 

766
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,880
conditioning was necessary, 
right? 

767
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,200
It wasn't like an option in that
like a sub, you know, like a 

768
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,840
like a tropical kind of 
environment, right. 

769
00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:22,720
But why, why did I get on that 
right? 

770
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:30,080
So Oh yeah, so after 91 
capitalism hit India and started

771
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,600
to grow, right? 
For China, it was 1978. 

772
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,520
So that's why China is in some 
metrics roughly about 10 years, 

773
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,200
13 years ahead of India, roughly
other metrics. 

774
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,280
That's why we had other metrics.
You'd argue it's even behind in 

775
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,960
some metrics. 
But like, China's diaspora 

776
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,560
doesn't do as well as India's 
diaspora. 

777
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,400
China plays a better home game 
and India plays a better away 

778
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,880
game and vice versa, I'd say, 
right? 

779
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,320
But so that was the moment that 
India turned capitalist. 

780
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:01,160
That's why India's actually 
rising now and I think over the 

781
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,800
years to come. 
You know, China was always the 

782
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,680
number 2 communism after the 
Soviet Union for, you know what,

783
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,920
decades. 
But then the Soviet Union made a

784
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,400
bunch of bad decisions and 
basically tried to ideologically

785
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,840
reform for economic reform. 
And then it just blew apart in 

786
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,640
the late 80s, early 90s. 
And then China in a sense became

787
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,560
quote, the leading brand of 
communism, right? 

788
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,120
Even if it doesn't export 
communism, even if it doesn't 

789
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,880
think it's system is the ideal 
system, it became the leading 

790
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,720
brand of communism and Vietnam 
and and others, you know, like 

791
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:34,520
basically all look to China. 
Are we happy? 

792
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,680
And now I think we're on the 
verge of something similar 

793
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,080
happening in the Western world 
where the US and the Western 

794
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,440
countries on like what they call
democracy is going to 

795
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,760
financially, socially, 
politically, physically 

796
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,120
meltdown, right? 
The sovereign debt crisis is 

797
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,680
going to hit. 
And I think that if India can 

798
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:58,040
weather that, that it actually 
will keep in a sense the flame 

799
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,320
of monarchy of life. 
It'll be like like China was the

800
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,880
number two that then became 
effectively the most 

801
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,320
pragmatically run country. 
Whether it's actually quote, 

802
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,640
communist or not, it preserves 
the name of communist, right? 

803
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,920
So. 
India becomes, I think, the 

804
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,480
world's leading democracy by the
late twenty 30s, early twenty 

805
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:17,760
40s or the thereabouts. 
I think really the Internet is 

806
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:19,920
also a big part of that because 
the Internet allows us to do 

807
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,240
cryptographic verifiable voting.
It allows us to do, you know, 

808
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:26,960
like votes where you cannot 
just, you know, your vote 

809
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,320
counts, but you can count all 
the votes. 

810
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,760
So the Internet also is a big 
part in kind of guarding, quote,

811
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,680
democracy because communism will
be very strong. 

812
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,920
Chinese communism think will be 
a lot of people will think 

813
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,560
that's the way to do things 
after this sovereign debt 

814
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:40,680
crisis. 
And I think it's going to 

815
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,800
overcorrect in that direction 
and we'll have to have a 

816
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,520
counterbalance to it. 
I don't know if you have any 

817
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,200
thoughts on that. 
Just the fact that India can 

818
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,880
count all the votes in a day, 
for example, not a small thing. 

819
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,720
It's like in detail though, that
shows that operationally it's 

820
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:55,760
actually able to do that and 
it's somehow on net, it's 

821
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,400
working within India. 
Yeah, I was there. 

822
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,080
Yeah, I think so. 
I mean back to your point, I'm 

823
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,320
going to more to do about the 
potential that India has been 

824
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,200
realized in the potential that 
was latent. 

825
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:09,840
I I do think some of these big 
ships happen when big bets are 

826
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,360
taken and some of these some of 
these big bets can be taken by 

827
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,960
large alumni rates and lot 
governments and policies and all

828
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,320
that. 
And I think that's what's begin 

829
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,840
to show some promise and results
in India. 

830
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,040
And the kind of stuff you see in
India different from 20 years 

831
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:29,280
ago is this is over by and 
because the government and, you 

832
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,160
know, the globalists have done 
well, it is creating a sense of 

833
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,760
optimism and is becoming a Petri
dish where ambition and risk 

834
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:41,920
taking can survive and thrust. 
20 years ago when I was in 

835
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,440
college, if we were to start a 
company and on a parole, on a 

836
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,880
parole, you would not get 
married. 

837
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,000
Now, if you're on Tinder, I 
think if you're a founder, you 

838
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,360
get all updates is what I hear. 
So that control shift, I think 

839
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,920
allows ambition and it doesn't 
tap it down that he says, yeah, 

840
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,600
you could do this and, you know,
go on that journey and there are

841
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,160
people who back you and if you 
come back failed, you're not 

842
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,040
gonna be a joke and all right, 
simply get packed on the back in

843
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,600
a bar so that the. 
Failure tolerance. 

844
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,200
A cultural shift is apparent. 
Yeah. 

845
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,720
As opposed to only taking the 
safe job of engineer doctor. 

846
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:16,400
I mean, of course, being an 
entrepreneur is a kind of 

847
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:17,640
engineer, but yes. 
Correct. 

848
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,480
So now I think that that that 
Petri dish is somewhat ready. 

849
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:25,000
It's still take a decade plus, 
multiple decades perhaps to get 

850
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,040
it ready to. 
That will be what we need. 

851
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,320
But now I think we are starting 
to see ambition and risk taking 

852
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,080
happen, get back and then get 
results. 

853
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,360
And we're probably in the first 
cycle of that. 

854
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,200
And I could argue the first 
cycle was 20134014. 

855
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,840
And now it's like showing up in 
public markets in India. 

856
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,920
Where good companies you just 
hung out with Beanie Bonsil 

857
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,320
Flipkart, right. 
And so we put up a clip use 

858
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,160
from, you know, a friend of both
of ours, he's on the pod before 

859
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:55,400
and basically the, you know, he,
he was the first large exit in 

860
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,080
India, right, $18 billion for 
for Flipkart and kind of showed 

861
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,680
it was possible, right. 
And you know, now, you know, one

862
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,200
thought you have a thesis and 
why don't we get to Indian tech 

863
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:07,720
for a second? 
You have a thesis on Indian 

864
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:08,480
tech. 
I have a thesis. 

865
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:09,880
I'd like to hear yours and I'll 
give you mine. 

866
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,720
Yeah, yeah. 
Thesis on India tech. 

867
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,680
That was a broad question. 
Yes, thesis on India tech. 

868
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:20,440
Should I give? 
You mine in the group first? 

869
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:21,840
Yeah, Yeah. 
So. 

870
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:29,040
My view is that India itself is 
a market, yes, but it's I'm 

871
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,240
actually morched in India for 
the producer side than the 

872
00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:36,040
consumer side that say I'm 
morched in India as a source of 

873
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:42,440
talent for engineering, for 
finance, for media, for 

874
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,400
basically Internet first. 
Basically all of the you know, 

875
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:50,240
AI is amazing, but AI needs 
prompting and it means verifying

876
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,120
that's actually the new 
bottleneck, right? 

877
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,040
Because the prompting is 
actually writing programs in a 

878
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,480
higher language. 
You have to be verbal enough, 

879
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,160
you know, to to be able to do 
that. 

880
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:01,840
So I'll say Indians winning, 
selling beasts as a so you heard

881
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,800
it right. 
So you have to you have to be 

882
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,840
able to know all kinds of crazy 
vocabulary terms actually, like 

883
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,520
for example, art history is now 
an applied subject. 

884
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,440
You know why? 
Because if you can say Cezanne 

885
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,640
or Picasso or something like 
that, then you can invoke that 

886
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,120
as a library call when you're 
using using AI up, right. 

887
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,160
And so every subject, the more 
vocabulary and not just 

888
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,720
vocabulary, the more terms 
concepts, because using them 

889
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:26,040
correctly, you can prompt it 
better, you get a better result.

890
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,680
And then verifying it is if you 
have expertise in there. 

891
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,400
So yeah, it doesn't take things 
away, but take jobs away. 

892
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,280
But what it does do is it shifts
them to people who will have 

893
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:35,680
time to do prompting and 
verifying. 

894
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,080
And sorry to reject you back. 
I don't know if you saw that 

895
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:42,240
recent video by Karpati where he
kind of does this analysis of 

896
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:45,640
get up code. 
Yeah, and more and more now they

897
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,480
get up. 
Repositories have English 

898
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,200
embedded in the code, because 
now the code itself is becoming 

899
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,120
natural. 
Language for more, yes. 

900
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,160
Similar board dense. 
So back to your point about 

901
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:55,920
yeah. 
That's right. 

902
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,840
And exactly like prompting 
programming, assembly, like, you

903
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,640
know, right, and, and India is 
good in English, or at least a 

904
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,600
lot of Indians come to English. 
And it's in some ways, depending

905
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,160
on the numbers, you can argue 
India has already actually 

906
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,240
become the number one source of 
English speakers on the 

907
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,280
Internet, right over the US, 
which used to be at the default,

908
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:17,960
right. 
And I think as more and more 

909
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,200
Indians acculturate to English, 
that will become completely true

910
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,760
by 2035 or 2040 or thereabouts, 
right? 

911
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,880
Because they can learn languages
quickly around. 

912
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,080
So my view is like, if we're 
sitting on this chair, this 

913
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,080
chair doesn't feel like a 
Chinese chair, right? 

914
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,720
It may be made in China, but it 
doesn't feel like a Chinese 

915
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:41,600
chair in the same way, I think 
like what is a thesis for Indian

916
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,200
Internet entrepreneurs? 
They'll build software that's 

917
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,120
just globally competitive 
software that happens to be made

918
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,600
by an Indian or even in India. 
But it is Internet first. 

919
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:53,880
It's not India first per SE, 
It's Internet first. 

920
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,800
It's almost a little bit like 
Europeans who if they're in a 

921
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,760
small country in Europe, they 
have to actually think Internet 

922
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,960
first if they're an entrepreneur
because the whole market is just

923
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,920
not not big enough. 
And so like the translation has 

924
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,800
to be there from the beginning 
and you know, they have to be 

925
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,400
intranet first. 
That's got its problems because 

926
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,280
that's a tax if compliance and 
stuff you have to do, but it's 

927
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,480
got its benefits because you 
have a holistic view on the 

928
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,080
world, right? 
And so like, you know, build in 

929
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:24,920
India or build by India and sell
to the Internet. 

930
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,000
That's the kind of business I'm 
interested in investing in, 

931
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,400
which is an Internet first 
business that happens to be 

932
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,480
founded by Indians. 
Now, of course, sometimes it may

933
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,040
turn out that something like 
Olaf, for example, is 

934
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,040
necessarily got a very local and
geographical component, right? 

935
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:43,760
Some businesses will be built 
which are, you know, necessarily

936
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,040
going to be domain or Geo lock 
and you have to start there. 

937
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,200
And I'm not saying India is a 
pretty big market. 

938
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,960
You can definitely get to a 
pretty large market over there, 

939
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,880
but I do think Internet first is
the way to go. 

940
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,440
And I think crypto is going to 
help with that a lot because it 

941
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,520
means global rule of code, 
right? 

942
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:03,280
So an Indian may be a second 
class citizen in America where 

943
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,960
you know, H1 BS and so on, sort 
of becoming much more attacked 

944
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,160
and so on in the US. 
And they're, they're basically, 

945
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,920
they haven't eliminated them, 
but they made them so much more 

946
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,760
of a pain in terms of forcing 
people to go back every year 

947
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,080
rather than every few years and 
making the renewals more longer 

948
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,240
and uncertain. 
That's not a small issue. 

949
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:24,440
That's a big issue because it 
means you can't, first of all, 

950
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:27,640
just the fact people may not 
know this, but as an H1B, you 

951
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,560
have to periodically go back to 
India, wait for a council 

952
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,040
appointment, then come back. 
Now, if you're just working at a

953
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,160
job, this is like, OK, I need to
pause. 

954
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,040
I need to take an international 
flight. 

955
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,160
I need to wait for an uncertain 
duration and then come back. 

956
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:46,120
And that that is a pain, even if
it's like a day on both sides. 

957
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,320
If it is an uncertain multiple 
month thing over here, you can 

958
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,000
easily just lose your job in the
US. 

959
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,560
It makes hiring an H1B something
where the bureaucratic overhead 

960
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:56,680
means you wouldn't do it. 
Right. 

961
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,720
So their point is to make it 
their goal is to make it 

962
00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:02,800
disadvantaged enough for the 
program still exists in neem, 

963
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,680
but not in substance, right. 
So as that door closes, and I 

964
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:10,200
don't think that Indians should 
go to American. 

965
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,240
I think if you're it's just like
a big not welcome sign is being 

966
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,720
put there. 
If you're ACEO, the much of the 

967
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,600
American left hates you. 
And if you're an Indian 

968
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,640
immigrant, A Guchenko American 
right hates you. 

969
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,960
So just listen, you know, to the
the signals there, right? 

970
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,280
And just don't go to America 
anymore. 

971
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,080
And it's true for many other 
countries as well. 

972
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,920
Like even German tourists are 
getting strip searched and what 

973
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,320
happy, right? 
America does not want immigrant 

974
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:36,600
entrepreneurs to come there 
anymore. 

975
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,960
It just doesn't right. 
So where do they go instead? 

976
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,440
Somewhere else, right? 
And so we have network school, 

977
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,560
you know, we've opened that. 
There's Dubai, there's tons of 

978
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,200
other countries that have 
digital nomad programs. 

979
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:48,280
And of course, there's India 
itself. 

980
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:49,840
And finally there's the 
Internet, right? 

981
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,800
Which you can be on from 
anywhere, you can be a digital 

982
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,120
nomad, right? 
And I think that shift, I'm 

983
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,560
starting to see that shift. 
Somebody posted the other day 

984
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,240
that like there was two really 
great entrepreneurs that just 

985
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,360
chose to, you know, not take 
their US offers, just, you know,

986
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:07,480
stay in India instead. 
And I'd love to hear your, or go

987
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,320
to Dubai or go to Singapore, go 
to something like NS and so on 

988
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,280
and so forth. 
I'd love to hear your thoughts 

989
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,160
on that. 
Yeah, that's what I grew. 

990
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:15,520
Agree. 
How hard you get back. 

991
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:16,880
I came back. 
Yeah, over to you. 

992
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,120
And you're an early adopter or? 
Yeah, that's right. 

993
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,440
Yeah, I came back before it was.
I mean, yeah, but there were a 

994
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,400
couple of waves in India that 
people have returned to. 

995
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:29,880
I1 was in 2010 I think 29/20/10 
1910 and the next one probably 

996
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,440
began around the time I moved 
back for Bell but mine was not 

997
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,600
really in late there just moved 
back to I want to move back but 

998
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,040
I do remember how hard it was to
get my H1V standby. 

999
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:42,600
Got stuck in Mexico in a place 
called Matamoros for six days to

1000
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,160
get my visa appointment and it 
just kept getting delayed and 

1001
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,320
that place was literally bombed 
out. 

1002
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,640
It'd be before because people 
had stayed and hidden there, 

1003
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,480
drug dealer than hidden there. 
So the Mexican police had 

1004
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,120
literally had to bomb them out. 
So the far of the hotel was 

1005
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,880
actually a big circle or hole in
there as we were living there. 

1006
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:01,480
Anyway, that was an interesting 
time. 

1007
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:07,280
But yeah, it is getting harder 
and harder to stay in the US or 

1008
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,480
enter the US. 
And we're all about thinking 

1009
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,040
about the five and 10 year and 
15 year horizon, right? 

1010
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:14,800
So you make investments, see, 
you think about where the world 

1011
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,280
is going to be in 10 years, 
correct? 

1012
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,320
Is America going to be more or 
less welcoming to immigrant 

1013
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,000
entrepreneurs in 10 years? 
I think it's going to be much 

1014
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,320
less welcoming. 
Much less what? 

1015
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:24,880
That's what about here. 
I have friends. 

1016
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,200
What? 
You mean worse than today? 

1017
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:27,280
Yeah, worse, right? 
Yeah. 

1018
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,880
So if it just is getting worse, 
you never want to bet on a curve

1019
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,240
that's going like this. 
You want to bet on a curve 

1020
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:33,760
that's going like this? 
Yeah, it is. 

1021
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:35,840
It is much harder now. 
My friends that are living in 

1022
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,520
the US 10-15 years are afraid to
come back to near to see family 

1023
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,040
because they feel like when they
go back to the US or 

1024
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,160
legitimately stand back for B, 
they will be stopped at the 

1025
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,760
border. 
And so I think it is getting. 

1026
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,560
I was surprisingly back. 
I was quite shocked to hear that

1027
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:51,920
just a couple of months back, 
and that was. 

1028
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:56,280
In the US it's also The thing is
just the randomness of it deters

1029
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:57,720
a trip. 
Yeah, right, right. 

1030
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,240
Because if you have a 10%, like 
you're spending money on this 

1031
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:04,640
plane flight, on this hotel, all
this kind of stuff, and then you

1032
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:06,440
can be just randomly stopped at 
the border. 

1033
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:08,520
Why? 
It's almost like an investment. 

1034
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,800
Why'd you make an investment or 
can randomly go to 0, right? 

1035
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,720
Why'd you have a conference in 
America, like a tech conference 

1036
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,520
if you can't have international 
guests, right? 

1037
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,440
Tech is an international thing. 
You wouldn't base it there, 

1038
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:18,960
right? 
Yeah. 

1039
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,200
So it has lots of knock on 
effects. 

1040
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:26,000
Yeah, I mean, the the debasing 
of the institutionalization of 

1041
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:30,480
our institutional, our houses of
the US is quite and it's quite 

1042
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,040
sad to see because I kind of 
really benefited from it and it 

1043
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,200
was probably one of the things 
that made it a superpower to 

1044
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,760
begin with. 
So, yeah, I think it's sad to 

1045
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:39,480
see. 
And I don't know the trend line 

1046
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:42,000
is ever going to reverse, but it
seems to be accelerating and 

1047
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:43,400
going downwards. 
Yes, yeah. 

1048
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,160
Now coming back to your question
on India and tech thesis on 

1049
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,840
India, I mean, it's a hard 
question for me to answer 

1050
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,120
because like at the end of the 
day, we are in the people 

1051
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,600
business and a lot in the 
business of predicting what 

1052
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,600
future needs to exist. 
That was the business of this 

1053
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,760
understanding the motivations 
and intentions of a founder 

1054
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,960
that's trying to create a future
of certain kind. 

1055
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,640
And you know as any, you know as
well as anybody else, they are 

1056
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,000
primarily the people business. 
So my intention is to keep the 

1057
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:15,600
best people in India, stay in 
India and build in India or even

1058
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,360
the best people from around the 
world to move them back to India

1059
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,480
somehow. 
That's why primary interest. 

1060
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:21,560
Interesting. 
OK. 

1061
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,280
So now what's interesting about 
India? 

1062
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,200
Do you only fund Arthur's in 
India? 

1063
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,320
Itself, there has to be some 
connection to it from the India 

1064
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,000
fund. 
We we have the back 

1065
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,840
entrepreneurs from Southeast 
Asia and India. 

1066
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,120
OK, got it from a viewable fund.
You know, different, different 

1067
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:38,440
regions are different funds for 
us. 

1068
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,800
So what is interesting what 
India, I think you was you 

1069
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,720
mentioned this earlier biology 
that India actually lives in the

1070
00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:47,000
cloud a lot more because it's 
much cheaper for us to go live 

1071
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,360
in the cloud than any other 
country. 

1072
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,880
Everybody literally lives in the
cloud and India has all free 

1073
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,760
time and they watch the same 
movies as the Americans do and 

1074
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,200
they play the same games as, you
know, all around the world. 

1075
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,400
And you know, they are all 
sitting on Reddit and shit 

1076
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:05,440
posting everywhere. 
They're on Twitter and all that 

1077
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,520
stuff is happening. 
So the more unplugged you become

1078
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:10,440
from the physical 
infrastructure, the more plugged

1079
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,240
in you are. 
The digital infrastructure, that

1080
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:15,840
is a very fundable thing that 
you can move people around with.

1081
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,200
So they are much more at home 
because they speak English. 

1082
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,480
They are culturally, you know, 
easy to assimilate in any other 

1083
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,520
culture and they can move 
around. 

1084
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,440
So what you might be seeing, and
I would love to hear how you're 

1085
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,400
seeing in that school. 
I think you began with the idea 

1086
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:37,040
that you can literally put 
together a set of people that 

1087
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,120
believe in a similar vision, 
that have similar culture. 

1088
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:42,480
And the culture is not regional 
related. 

1089
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,440
It's more about a digital 
culture that exists in the 

1090
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,600
clouds and sorts. 
You can institutionalized that 

1091
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,440
and create a movement around it.
And I think Indians are actually

1092
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,400
a really strong and a great 
perfect fit for this new world 

1093
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,800
that is emerging, which is going
to be this network state of 

1094
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,960
sorts where the other the other 
native citizens already. 

1095
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:05,600
Yes. 
And they will have the least 

1096
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,800
friction to get a passport and 
get citizenship in this new 

1097
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,600
world that you are creating. 
And comparing me with that, by 

1098
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,640
the way, is it's a little bit 
like people understand Fiat 

1099
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,480
currency and cryptocurrency now 
that there's like an Internet 

1100
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,240
native version, there's a land 
native version. 

1101
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,760
And I think the next step, which
we've kind of altered in the 

1102
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,720
middle of is Fiat identity and 
crypto identity, because for 

1103
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:30,680
example, your Google login, 
right, is in a sense a digital 

1104
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,440
identity, right? 
A very important one, in fact, 

1105
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,640
right. 
Your, your crypto wallet is 

1106
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,640
another one. 
Your pass card to your, you 

1107
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,600
know, hotel room, your Tesla, 
you know, digital lock that 

1108
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:47,720
opens it with the use of phone 
app and your two FA right. 

1109
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,080
All of these kinds of things are
pieces of digital identity that 

1110
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,360
eventually I think will get 
consolidated into like 

1111
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,080
effectively A crypto passport, 
digital passport that gets you 

1112
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,720
into online and offline property
seamlessly, right. 

1113
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:07,760
And India's part of the way 
there with author and other 

1114
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,400
things, right? 
Like that actually can log into 

1115
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,880
online services, but it also 
gets you offline, right? 

1116
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:13,960
Yeah. 
And they have what's the thing 

1117
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,760
at airports where it's just like
face recognition, you get a lot 

1118
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:17,520
of. 
Digi Outro. 

1119
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:18,840
Yeah, Digi Outro, does that 
work? 

1120
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,440
Yeah, that works beautifully. 
Yeah, I don't have to carry my. 

1121
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,920
It's. 
Not talking about it so digital 

1122
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,360
entity that you know it's 
essentially scans your face at 

1123
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,560
the airports and then now you 
are you know you are in the 

1124
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,960
system and then you don't have 
to carry your passport for 

1125
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,040
international travel. 
You still have to but domestic 

1126
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,440
travel you are to carry any NDD 
for proof. 

1127
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,960
So what do you do is you just 
stand in front of the screen and

1128
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:44,520
then it takes your it scans your
face and you are the door open. 

1129
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,960
Then you you get into the 
airport and used to be you know 

1130
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,120
a few years back and still is 
there for majority of the 

1131
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:50,840
airports in India. 
You're for sure and you take 

1132
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:54,000
your wallet out and you carry if
you forget your I need a card, 

1133
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:55,520
then you got to go back home and
pick it up. 

1134
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,280
And today I don't really carry 
anything to be card with me. 

1135
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,200
I think don't really carry my 
what I do really remember 

1136
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,200
carrying my wallet when I'm in 
Singapore right now or the US 

1137
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,120
and I tend to forget. 
You don't need a credit card, 

1138
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,240
debit card. 
We saw digital UPI and QR code 

1139
00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:12,480
base. 
You don't need to carry a ready 

1140
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:13,680
card. 
I have this thing called digit 

1141
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:18,480
locker which keeps my duty and 
it's a legal as a legal way to 

1142
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,040
show your needy to people. 
You cannot be denied entry if 

1143
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,000
you show that and so on and so 
forth. 

1144
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:31,320
So now when you combine this 
digitally native cloud native, a

1145
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,160
population of, you know, very, 
very young people, really 

1146
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,080
hungry, really ambitious and you
combine that with the 

1147
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,000
infrastructure the government is
providing recommend them with 

1148
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:45,080
the venture money that is didn't
take risks with really young and

1149
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,200
unproven founder. 
And also pretty capital 

1150
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:48,880
efficient there. 
Very capital efficient. 

1151
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,560
Then you get this. 
That's where the future of India

1152
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:57,440
is. 
And on top of that you have this

1153
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:02,440
fast growing mini floss with 
higher and higher disposable 

1154
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,680
income. 
And frankly India has obviously 

1155
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,720
multiple parts. 
That is a really, really rich 

1156
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,840
part of India has very high per 
capital GDP. 

1157
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,360
There is this middle part that 
behaves differently and there is

1158
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,880
a bottom. 
That bottom is really quickly 

1159
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,680
coming out of poverty and below 
poverty line. 

1160
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,480
It's coming out of poverty, some
disposable income and then they 

1161
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,320
are already you know we are 
spying to be somewhere the one 

1162
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,600
or the middle. 
What does that mean? 

1163
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:34,720
What it means is they want to go
take, you know, take their 

1164
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,560
girlfriends and boyfriends to a 
movie once in a month. 

1165
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:40,440
Once in six months, great. 
Take them out to a lunch or 

1166
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:42,480
dinner in a small restaurant. 
Consumption is starting to 

1167
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,840
increase, yeah. 
Yeah, if you look at the number 

1168
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:48,800
of iPhones India buys a real, 
it's quite massive, 

1169
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,320
surprisingly, a state that's 
another. 

1170
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,160
Important stat that I was 
surprised at seeing recently. 

1171
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,600
India's risen from 1% to 20% of 
iPhone manufacturing. 

1172
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,640
Yeah, which is, again, it's like
it's rare that something keeps 

1173
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:03,920
surprising me to the upside. 
Yeah. 

1174
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,840
You know, like I said, like 
governments, things tend to, you

1175
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,800
know, somebody said something 
like India. 

1176
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,760
Disappoints about the pessimists
and optimists yes, that could be

1177
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:15,240
right. 
That's that's true true. 

1178
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,480
It's true for, it's been true 
for India for the longest time 

1179
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:18,840
and probably don't be true 
forever. 

1180
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,560
But that, that's what's 
interesting about India. 

1181
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:30,640
Now, why is that happening? 
Look, 1020 years ago, my parents

1182
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:34,160
really saved up their entire 
savings to buy a house or for 

1183
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,680
somebody's marriage, or they 
would buy gold or they would buy

1184
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:41,280
a vehicle. 
India, the new India, doesn't 

1185
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,240
care about that. 
Nobody wants to buy a house. 

1186
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:45,680
The kids don't want to buy a 
house. 

1187
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:46,960
Interesting. 
Physically don't. 

1188
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:48,280
They don't care. 
They don't want to have 

1189
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,160
possessions. 
They want to rent. 

1190
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:55,120
Yeah, now to where gold in 
public is tacky for the young 

1191
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:56,560
people. 
So they don't want want to buy 

1192
00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:57,920
gold and keep it in their 
locker. 

1193
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,160
So where the money go? 
They don't want to buy a vehicle

1194
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:02,760
because they want to just take 
Ubers everywhere. 

1195
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,640
Like oh so they are Internet 
first, they leave projects. 

1196
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,040
Yeah, they really, Yeah, they 
want to have, they want to plug 

1197
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:12,760
in, plug out of infrastructures,
banking infrastructure, you 

1198
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:14,480
know, vehicle infrastructure. 
So it's a. 

1199
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,880
Lifestyle of sort of the San 
Francisco tech guy is actually 

1200
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,640
the default lifestyle. 
I'll get a much lower price 

1201
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:23,840
point. 
But actually comparable quality,

1202
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,880
honestly, it's like maybe 10 or 
100 X in some cases cheaper than

1203
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,520
California, but it's comparable 
or better quality in many cases 

1204
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,480
like food delivery, like Uber, 
all that all that stuff exists, 

1205
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:36,600
right. 
You know you can you can be 

1206
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,440
completely productive with great
coffee, MacBook Air 

1207
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:44,880
conditioning, everything there. 
And, and it's not like like 

1208
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,960
super expensive or anything. 
It's like accessible to a very 

1209
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:48,080
large number of people. 
Yeah. 

1210
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:49,880
And you can. 
Get all of this stuff in 10 

1211
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,120
minutes in the big cities, yeah.
And pretty soon in the K2K2 

1212
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,720
cities in 10 minutes. 
Yeah, because economics doesn't 

1213
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:57,920
work out. 
Now, the one thing I will say is

1214
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,320
when people go to India, they 
they'll find places and there 

1215
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,880
are plenty of places that are 
still, you know, filthy or, you 

1216
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,240
know, those like terrible 
streets and something like that.

1217
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,000
And that's absolutely true. 
And we have actually started to 

1218
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,720
express it is. 
India's like California in 

1219
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:14,160
reverse. 
And what I mean by that is 

1220
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,040
California is fractally getting 
worse, right? 

1221
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:22,720
So everything that's old is like
beautiful and it's got like 

1222
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,360
amazing, you know, Spanish roof 
architecture or its speeches. 

1223
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:27,920
But everything new is like in 
California, it's like a homeless

1224
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:29,840
encampment. 
It's like a burn downtown. 

1225
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,560
It's like a way most set on fire
or something like that. 

1226
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,480
It's like the new stuff is bad. 
Most of the buildings that are 

1227
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,240
new are bad because they're not 
buildings. 

1228
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:38,320
They're destroying us really, 
right? 

1229
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,200
And in India, it's opposite, the
older it is, with some 

1230
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,280
exceptions like the Taj Mahal, 
which are really, really old, 

1231
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,760
right? 
But in general, the older stuff 

1232
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,560
is like, it's like a slum or 
it's like a, you know, bad St. 

1233
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,440
Though poverty is radically 
reduced in India. 

1234
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:53,640
Like the rate of extreme poverty
is dropped off a lot, right? 

1235
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,360
So it's like, you know, it's 
like a messy street or 

1236
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,240
something, but the new stuff, 
it's like a shiny new Apple 

1237
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:02,000
store or it's a, it's a new 
restaurant or something like 

1238
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,880
that. 
And, and, and importantly, a lot

1239
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,120
of the people are very 
especially English speakers and 

1240
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:09,200
of course not already speaks 
English. 

1241
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,920
And so it's sort of, but a lot 
of people do are very okra with 

1242
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,640
Internet memes. 
You know, they're like, they're 

1243
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:17,640
extremely conversant with 
everything that's happened in 

1244
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:21,440
the English Internet, right? 
And so that's surprising to 

1245
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,280
people if if they haven't had, 
you know, time to, they may, you

1246
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,800
know, because people type 
without an accent. 

1247
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:28,680
Yeah, right. 
You type with an accent and it's

1248
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:31,280
their complete conversant in 
written English. 

1249
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,120
And it is like a slight accent 
in within India. 

1250
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,320
But even then, like, you know, 
because Indians learn languages 

1251
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,480
recently fast. 
So it's fractally getting 

1252
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,160
better. 
That's kind of how I think about

1253
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:42,880
it. 
Let me know. 

1254
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,560
Yeah, and there's that because. 
You've also lived in California 

1255
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:46,680
and India for. 
Absolutely. 

1256
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:51,280
I think in India you can. 
You can visit three to four 

1257
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,360
countries in a day if you wanted
to go to Mumbai. 

1258
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,480
You can Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3. 
Yeah, talk about that. 

1259
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:57,800
Pretty much, right? 
So you go to. 

1260
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,280
As I can all shaws, I think. 
Formulation, yeah. 

1261
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,960
I think he mentioned that 
perhaps and then our friends at 

1262
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:08,200
Bloom Ventures and I mentioned 
that in his recent, I think it 

1263
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,920
was last year, a couple of years
back in his publication. 

1264
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,280
He does a really good job on 
that. 

1265
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:18,080
That's called Indus Valley Files
and I think he's, he's got this 

1266
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,360
really, really interesting 
observation that, you know, in a

1267
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,800
single day, I don't know whether
he said this or not, but it's a 

1268
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,640
minor reputation of it. 
You can a single day. 

1269
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:28,520
You can if you go to Mumbai or 
Bangalore, or you can land in a 

1270
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,840
in a airport that looks like a 
seven star hotel drive on a 

1271
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,880
highway that looks like 
absolutely brand new and flowers

1272
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,000
and trees on both sides and 
feels like you've come to 

1273
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,920
Singapore. 
So you've landed in Singapore. 

1274
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:46,920
You can then reach a city that 
feels like Mexico in the middle 

1275
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,520
of a sweaty afternoon. 
And then you could you could 

1276
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,760
pass by something that looks 
like a Brazilian Fugela. 

1277
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:54,400
I probably I'll find it a bunch 
of big countries in a single 

1278
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,680
statement because that's 
interesting. 

1279
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:59,600
In India, this is what you know,
there is a pocket of massive 

1280
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:03,360
improvement and there is middle,
the messy middle, and there is a

1281
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,640
yeah. 
But if we look at the graph over

1282
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,080
time and like, so there was a 
tweet on Indian infrastructure 

1283
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:11,840
that I put up that actually 
Prime Minister Modi retweeted 

1284
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:17,640
that show the like, you know, 
for example, illumination, like 

1285
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,760
lights or highways or, you know,
plumbing, all this stuff just 

1286
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:23,280
radically improving. 
Absolutely. 

1287
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,880
And your cycle, it's completely 
different, yes. 

1288
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,800
So can your cycle, the 
connectivity, the electricity, 

1289
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:32,920
you know, consumption. 
If you look in those graph, you 

1290
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,440
look at the road network that 
you put this up, I remember 

1291
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,840
seeing that a train network, the
flight networks, the airport 

1292
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:41,520
infrastructure, we're looking at
10 to 15 year graph. 

1293
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:43,240
It looks like it's erratic in 
different country. 

1294
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,000
Yes. 
And you can still go, you can 

1295
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:48,120
find whatever you want to find. 
In India, the optimist will go 

1296
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,320
find the Singapore. 
In India, the pessimists are 

1297
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:52,920
going to go find something. 
Else, yes, well, but the 

1298
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:57,800
pessimists have, if you look at 
the graph over time, it is, it 

1299
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,080
is very hard to be pessimistic 
on it, right. 

1300
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:04,200
And that, that I think is unless
you're calibrated on the trend 

1301
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,480
line, right. 
It's kind of like people can 

1302
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,400
take a beautiful photo. 
There's still beautiful areas in

1303
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:12,080
California. 
But the trend line from, you 

1304
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,560
know, because I was there almost
25 years, right? 

1305
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:20,560
From 1997 to 20/20/2019, so 22 
years, something like that, 

1306
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,760
right? 
The trend line was just 

1307
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:26,120
definitely like it hadn't yet 
hit zero. 

1308
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,160
But Ann, how old are you there? 
You were there from 15 years, 15

1309
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,360
years, so 2320, eighteen, right?
So you definitely saw it towards

1310
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,200
the end. 
It was like much, much, much 

1311
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,440
filthier. 
It's different work, right? 

1312
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:42,240
So it's funny because we're in a
time where I think previously 

1313
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:47,320
these sort of civilizational 
level changes happened over 

1314
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,240
decades, but other happening 
over years. 

1315
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:50,560
Yeah. 
Or they're they happened over 

1316
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,280
centuries and other happening 
over decades. 

1317
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,320
You know, the rate of change is 
so ridiculously fast. 

1318
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:57,600
And we can quantify that 
actually. 

1319
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:01,400
Like have we seen the graph of, 
for example, I think it was 

1320
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:03,840
whether it was Internet adoption
or actually, no, it was 

1321
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,000
e-commerce. 
E-commerce spend had been 

1322
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:10,640
growing as a percentage of total
spend X percent a year until 

1323
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,760
COVID and then it actually 
literally increased 10X in a 

1324
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,400
year, right? 
So that's like the the Lenin 

1325
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,920
thing, like there's years where 
decades happen. 

1326
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:21,680
That actually was a year where a
decade happened where the rate 

1327
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:23,480
of change just went like that, 
right? 

1328
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:25,480
Things that people have known 
were happening just went 

1329
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,880
vertical like this. 
Now COVID in India actually, I 

1330
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:33,760
mean, interesting macro thing, 
COVID in America after that, 

1331
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,600
like the site is just felt worse
off. 

1332
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:40,040
Like people say, people often 
post about this, like 

1333
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,400
maintenance quality has dropped 
off, you know, polarization is 

1334
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:46,520
increasing even further service 
quality. 

1335
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,080
Like you know, it's, it's like 
everything in terms of 

1336
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,120
maintenance, all that stuff is 
kind of broken down. 

1337
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:56,160
And whereas in China, for 
example, somebody went there and

1338
01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:59,080
they said post COVID and you 
know, China was really ruthless 

1339
01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:00,760
during COVID. 
They locked up on rooms and so 

1340
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,320
on. 
But they also a lot of the 

1341
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,360
things that people used to do in
China, like, you know, spitting 

1342
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,560
on the street and stuff like 
that, like a lot of that is 

1343
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:08,440
actually dramatically being 
curtailed. 

1344
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:12,600
And China feels more Japanese, 
like there's a greater degree of

1345
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:16,160
public, you know, cleanliness 
and some sort of perhaps as that

1346
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:18,560
the system got pushed into a new
state as a function of COVID. 

1347
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,160
And I actually think India on 
balance, because of the 

1348
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:26,880
internetification on balance, it
actually feels stronger after 

1349
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,080
COVID, like the sites come 
together more and so it's over. 

1350
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:30,480
I don't know if you have any 
thoughts on that. 

1351
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:34,720
Yeah, as a funny tweet somebody 
put out a few days back that the

1352
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:38,640
world has not been the same 
since somebody ate a bat. 

1353
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:41,560
Yeah, so. 
It actually appears to have come

1354
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,000
out of the wet lab as more than 
one. 

1355
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,160
Well, OK, yeah. 
Yeah, because there's enough 

1356
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:52,640
data on the NIH funding of on 
the COVID, you know, like the 

1357
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:55,280
COVID-19 labs that it's more 
than incidental. 

1358
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,160
There's too many different 
connections for it to be I 

1359
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:58,400
think. 
Too instructive? 

1360
01:06:58,400 --> 01:06:59,640
Yeah, I could. 
Go through all the genetics of 

1361
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:01,040
it, but it looks it looks 
positive. 

1362
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:05,400
So yeah, I think look, India and
COVID was brutal time and it's 

1363
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:07,760
very hard to compare which 
country had the worst of it. 

1364
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:10,560
India suddenly didn't do well 
and the first wave was fine. 

1365
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,640
The second wave was brutal. 
People did come together quite 

1366
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,600
nicely the society, which was 
really great to see. 

1367
01:07:17,640 --> 01:07:19,520
Many of us. 
And I remember like being part 

1368
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,040
of a lot of this COVID drives in
the line. 

1369
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,320
We would call off hospital and 
figured out the bends and I 

1370
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:25,920
think, yeah, it was a tough 
time. 

1371
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:30,680
It does feel like it did not 
change society in a way that you

1372
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:34,760
could pinpoint pre and post and 
say we are a different world 

1373
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:38,400
now, like what you're saying 
with China or perhaps, you know,

1374
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:40,480
the US. 
It doesn't feel like it's very 

1375
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,880
different. 
So I think we did come away not 

1376
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:46,200
getting too deeply impacted 
culturally or economically or 

1377
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:48,000
recovery. 
It could be because India by 

1378
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,280
itself is a little bit 
conservative across, you know, 

1379
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,080
pistol policy and monetary 
policies. 

1380
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:53,920
So we kind. 
Of soon do the big big print in 

1381
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:55,440
the same. 
Way we didn't do the same thing 

1382
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:00,040
that we did and and the 
healthcare infrastructure, you 

1383
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,720
know, it's not as massive as it 
is in China, but it, you know, 

1384
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,880
it gets the job done. 
You know, and you did have its 

1385
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:07,760
own vaccine. 
You did have your own vaccine, 

1386
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:11,480
and I took the Iranian vaccine, 
not the Pfizer one. 

1387
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:15,160
And and, you know, felt like, 
you know, I think we came out of

1388
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:16,720
it OK. 
Yeah, I'm glad. 

1389
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,200
I'm glad to see that it didn't 
lead to a lot of like the 

1390
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,880
demonetization wave made sure 
that people don't really care 

1391
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:25,760
about carrying money anymore. 
I think it did lead to a lot of 

1392
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:30,319
the digitization of services, 
you know, that one company, you 

1393
01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:32,600
know, like you could get people 
to cover your house and clean up

1394
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:35,399
and you know, you could get, you
know, quick commerce picked up 

1395
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:38,279
during that time and of all 
kinds of things. 

1396
01:08:38,279 --> 01:08:42,080
And I caught COVID in the US and
it was so hard to get medicines 

1397
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:43,960
delivered to you. 
You just couldn't get medicines 

1398
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:46,800
delivered to you. 
COVID and any IE just comes to 

1399
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,359
your doorstep, even doing COVID,
you will come to your toaster. 

1400
01:08:49,359 --> 01:08:52,520
So I think those things start to
get adopted. 

1401
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,640
And one of the funny things that
happens during COVID is, you 

1402
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:59,800
know, even grandparents were 
were had to learn all the stuff 

1403
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:02,600
because many times they were 
living by themselves or if their

1404
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,240
kids were, you know, then they 
had to take care of them. 

1405
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:10,720
They learned how to how to use 
digital services at 7080 years 

1406
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:14,120
of age. 
So it led to this mass coaching 

1407
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:19,399
of the entire country to learn 
to take classes online, to 

1408
01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:22,760
transact online, to get services
online and so on and so forth. 

1409
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:26,520
So I think that led to a 
behavior that has stuck around a

1410
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:30,840
lot, lot, lot more. 
So on the whole things like it 

1411
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:33,359
did accelerate our digitization 
journey, which is already kind 

1412
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:36,240
of really getting there, but 
it's really accelerated. 

1413
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,319
I think the digital part is what
really accelerated after that. 

1414
01:09:39,319 --> 01:09:44,359
I think if if you looked at a 
few graphs so society is at 

1415
01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:47,560
least the same if not there, but
really doesn't seem to be badly 

1416
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:49,319
correct. 
No the digital part radically. 

1417
01:09:49,319 --> 01:09:51,640
Improved and we have a much 
younger population so. 

1418
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:53,960
It was like a big deal. 
That's right. 

1419
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,040
So going to hit this hard. 
That's. 

1420
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,000
And it did. 
Frankly, that's a. 

1421
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:58,960
Good point. 
Actually the demographic aspect 

1422
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,800
of it is under appreciated. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1423
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:06,240
And and frankly, here doesn't 
listen like it is don't listen 

1424
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:09,120
right. 
It wasn't like people are still 

1425
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,040
walking around and getting 
beaten up by the police like a 

1426
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:15,600
bunch of funny tweets coming out
and but people just began to 

1427
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,080
mingle like in other countries, 
people protesting against during

1428
01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:23,040
So part of it was India are both
docile and don't listen and 

1429
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:26,480
severe operation and tell people
to wear a mask and many people 

1430
01:10:26,480 --> 01:10:27,800
lose as well. 
So that was good. 

1431
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:30,320
And then sometimes people just 
don't care just mingle around 

1432
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:33,080
anyway. 
And both of it kind of worked 

1433
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:36,800
out in a way that the country 
came out of it OK. 

1434
01:10:38,440 --> 01:10:40,560
It was quite weird to see. 
Interesting. 

1435
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,640
So OK, let's see other things. 
I mean you basically you left in

1436
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:49,360
2018 for India and so and when 
did you, when did you come, when

1437
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:52,320
did you come back to India? 
When I come back to India. 

1438
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:55,240
You came back in like January. 
20 No, I came back in August the

1439
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:56,040
2018. 
OK. 

1440
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:57,520
So it's only a year and a half 
before. 

1441
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,800
COVID yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So then, yeah. 

1442
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,200
And So what was the like the 
venture environment at the time 

1443
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:11,040
was, I mean, 2021 just talking 
about that for a second, right? 

1444
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:17,160
A lot of deals that got done in 
2021 in the US had this giant, I

1445
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:20,120
mean, like markets are just 
going like bananas at that time.

1446
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,120
Valuations are out of control, 
all kinds of stuff. 

1447
01:11:22,440 --> 01:11:25,600
And then, you know, inflation 
obviously went vertical towards 

1448
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:27,440
the end. 
And finally they acknowledged it

1449
01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:29,600
was doing so. 
And then they had to hike rates 

1450
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,920
and not had to. 
I actually think both the 

1451
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,920
printing and the hiking were 
both disastrous policies, but 

1452
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,880
they felt they had to do fine. 
How did that like? 

1453
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:44,080
To what extent was India's 
economy also connected to like 

1454
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:47,240
the Western gyrations of of 
markets versus how much was it 

1455
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:50,680
kind of its own thing? 
Not very, not very much. 

1456
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,160
Yeah. 
So if you look at the, if you 

1457
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:56,280
kind of go back and maybe you 
can show that in 2020 and the, 

1458
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:59,600
and the COVID shock happened, 
the market's going to drop in 

1459
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:02,440
the US by what 2030% or less few
months. 

1460
01:12:02,440 --> 01:12:04,760
And India was probably more like
78%. 

1461
01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:07,160
So the shock because the first 
rate wasn't? 

1462
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:08,200
As bad in India? 
Yeah. 

1463
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:13,200
Also Vietnam is as connected to 
the US stock market, you know, 

1464
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:15,120
as perhaps other countries might
be. 

1465
01:12:15,480 --> 01:12:22,240
So, so the shock was there, but 
it was it was less and and then 

1466
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:27,280
it just continued on. 
So yeah, on the venture side, 

1467
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:31,040
there was a massive gold rush 
even in India like seat drowns 

1468
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:35,360
were getting done, you know, 
20-30 post money and the six 

1469
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,000
months ago they were happening 
at 10 and 15 post money. 

1470
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,960
So really double all night. 
See these days were happening 

1471
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:45,640
102 hundred post money, half 
$1,000,000 of revenue, 

1472
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:47,800
especially in SAS. 
So SAS category kind of really 

1473
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:51,160
blew up massively India and 
majority of these that happened 

1474
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:54,000
there were probably SAS and 
software can deals. 

1475
01:12:55,800 --> 01:13:02,400
And so the snap, the snap up 
into COVID frenzy, lots and lots

1476
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:04,440
of capital went into different 
companies. 

1477
01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:08,360
I think at that, maybe don't 
quote me on this, but about 30 

1478
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:12,160
to $40 billion of capital went 
into India across early maiden 

1479
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,440
grow. 
What's funny is that's a large 

1480
01:13:14,440 --> 01:13:16,920
amount for BC, but it's a small 
amount in the grand scheme of 

1481
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:20,720
things. 
You know, like because so many 

1482
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:22,800
hundreds of billions a dollar. 
But yes, this is a big jump for 

1483
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,400
BC. 
Cool chunk of money and for why 

1484
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:28,960
you were the world's second 
largest full of venture capital 

1485
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:33,320
going into the market and China 
was sort of 4th at the time. 

1486
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,840
So I think now we've kind of 
stabilized in the snapback out 

1487
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,080
of COVID is also very brutal. 
Many companies, you know, going 

1488
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:45,000
into COVID, especially if 
they're offline, really struggle

1489
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:47,200
and then they use the time, the 
good ones, the good management 

1490
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:49,800
teams use the time to really, 
you know, get leaner and get 

1491
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:53,040
more hungry and powerful on the 
way out of COVID. 

1492
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:54,960
All the companies they were 
building into the COVID way, 

1493
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:57,880
what people used to call 
pandemic market fit, they also 

1494
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,600
lost that and lost a lot of 
capital and you know, kind of 

1495
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,120
lost the thesis and they 
eventually died. 

1496
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,400
So that all, all that happened 
in India in two years and I had 

1497
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:09,680
a few of my companies blow up to
a billion dollar and then blow 

1498
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:11,400
down to 0 gain in like 2 years 
time. 

1499
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,920
It was crazy at the same time 
crypto it was happening and you 

1500
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,880
probably know this and then tons
of tons of companies and then 

1501
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:22,640
NFTV was picking up. 
It was it was a frenzy, feeding 

1502
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:27,840
frenzy and the, you know, D5 was
picking up and the selling lot 

1503
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:32,040
for you in India. 
So we saw a lot of that lots and

1504
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:36,560
lots of gold rushes all 
happening simultaneously and it 

1505
01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:39,240
was really hard to keep this 
straight ahead and figured out 

1506
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:41,720
what kind of entrepreneur you 
want to back and what kind of 

1507
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:43,960
companies and wage you want to 
back and what we'll sustainable 

1508
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,040
and lock. 
So we'll be looking at the best 

1509
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,440
we could have the most investors
around the world struggle with 

1510
01:14:48,440 --> 01:14:50,120
that period. 
We'll see what that vintage 

1511
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:53,080
looks like in the next 10 years,
but it'll be challenging if 

1512
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:56,120
you've been a bit, you know, 
more indiscriminating deploying 

1513
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:58,760
capital within that time and 
didn't care about valuation and 

1514
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,640
resume the but there were days 
of stay and I think they, you 

1515
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,640
know, lose a lot of money. 
Yeah, interesting. 

1516
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:11,400
I think, I think in general the 
the one thing that is good about

1517
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:16,640
those boot times is, you know 
the Carlo Perez thing that we 

1518
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:18,240
talked about a lot of these. 
Is he going to talk about that? 

1519
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:19,480
Go. 
Ahead, right? 

1520
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:22,880
He's good, yeah. 
It's like in a sensethe.com 

1521
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:27,560
bubble was a global search to 
find Google and Amazon, right? 

1522
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:31,360
So all the capital that went 
into it, if it, it did more than

1523
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:35,040
that, but if it just did those 
two, you can also add Netscape 

1524
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,600
and a few other things, right? 
Which obviously Netscape's very 

1525
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,960
important. 
It adjusted that it's worth it, 

1526
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:42,720
right? 
Like all the cap, right? 

1527
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:49,560
And so if that 3040 bill, if it 
generates $1 trillion company, 

1528
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:53,440
even $100 billion company, you 
can argue it's worth it, right? 

1529
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:57,680
And and it probably will 
probably will do do quite a few 

1530
01:15:57,760 --> 01:15:59,520
like, you know, you didn't, I 
think I don't know, of course 

1531
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:01,440
you responded in that, but 
that'll probably be there, 

1532
01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:07,880
right? 
So and you know, it's because 

1533
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:10,840
The thing is that 
entrepreneurship is hard and 

1534
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:12,960
rare. 
And so you kind of need to take 

1535
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:15,440
the whole thing and, you know, 
toss it on the table. 

1536
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:19,520
Another example is you remember 
the chat bots boom of the mid 

1537
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:24,360
twenty 10s, Is it rather the 
time of Tay and Microsoft and so

1538
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:29,840
and so there's like. 2015 ish 26
and like floor type stuff like a

1539
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:34,320
like a programmatic do this step
one step if else check yes, yes,

1540
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:36,920
that's right and. 
And there was Microsoft Tay, 

1541
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,680
which was like an R like AB0 AI 
chat bot. 

1542
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:43,840
And I remember seeing all that 
and I remember, I'm not sure if 

1543
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:47,160
I wrote it as an AC and Z memo 
or something, but I remember 

1544
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:51,840
writing something like for 
people to make this work, what 

1545
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:53,960
they're actually what they 
really want, as people are 

1546
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,280
talking about with chatbots, I'm
like, what they're asking for is

1547
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:59,000
iterated Google. 
Like what they want, and it's 

1548
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,560
full generality is to say 
something in natural language, 

1549
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,000
get back a response that uses 
the entire Internet to make the 

1550
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:06,920
response, and then do another 
query, right? 

1551
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:09,560
That is iterated Google. 
So if you can do that, of 

1552
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:11,640
course, it's amazing. 
It's more valuable than Google, 

1553
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:13,920
but that's the scale. 
The problem we're talking about 

1554
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:17,280
is like beef Google, right? 
And I remember writing that and 

1555
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:21,040
that's actually what happened. 
Like ChatGPT has actually 

1556
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,840
iterated Google and it's 
actually better than Google has 

1557
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:25,480
actually taken share away from 
Google. 

1558
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:27,560
That was the scale of the 
challenge. 

1559
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:32,800
And actually, Greg Brockman 
actually got interested in AI 

1560
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,960
because in part of the chatbot 
boom, he's written about that, 

1561
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:38,120
right? 
So in a sense, all the capital 

1562
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,560
that went into that, if all it 
did was get Brock and then 

1563
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:42,800
interested in chat bots, it paid
for itself. 

1564
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:45,600
Yeah, Right. 
So that is like a really right 

1565
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,560
tail way of thinking about some 
of these bubbles or what have 

1566
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,120
you know. 
Crazy how powerful the power law

1567
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:52,040
is. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1568
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:54,560
Or actually DACA bubble when 
also it is did PayPal, right. 

1569
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:57,600
So it did Netscape, it did 
PayPal, it did Epinions, which 

1570
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,000
novel, you know, Ebid's a real 
company, but you know, it, it it

1571
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:02,920
did Google, it did Amazon, 
right? 

1572
01:18:03,120 --> 01:18:05,600
So PayPal gave Teal and then 
LinkedIn and everything else 

1573
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:07,400
from that, right. 
And YouTube and blah, blah. 

1574
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,000
Then there's Google. 
So. 

1575
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:12,760
So just that search for those 
entrepreneurs was kind of worth 

1576
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:13,400
it. 
Yeah, that's right. 

1577
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,080
And that's so funny because 
that's not the way that people 

1578
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:18,160
normally think about it. 
They want to score every 

1579
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:20,560
investment independently. 
And of course that's worth worth

1580
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:24,840
doing, but it's sort of like no 
bubble actually goes to waste in

1581
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:26,520
the long run. 
I shouldn't say no bubble, but 

1582
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,360
you know what I mean. 
Many of these ostensible bubbles

1583
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,200
actually are search function 
which actually paid dividends in

1584
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:33,320
five or ten years. 
So man, we. 

1585
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:35,240
Had a look at it. 
Yeah, I, I agree. 

1586
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:40,120
I think if, frankly, if I were 
to redesign the venture world, I

1587
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:43,320
would sort of say it's going to 
become if she were a lot more 

1588
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:47,200
bimodal, where the extreme right
of these absolute dual shots, 

1589
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:49,400
you know, no shot in hand 
working. 

1590
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:52,040
But if it does work, it's like, 
you know, you cure cancer. 

1591
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:56,200
Yeah, do a lot of stuff on the 
extreme left is, I don't know, 

1592
01:18:56,200 --> 01:19:00,120
roll up companies, guaranteed 
performance, but you know, 15% 

1593
01:19:00,120 --> 01:19:02,520
coupon year over year and 
everything in the middle may not

1594
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,000
be as interesting. 
That's one way to think about 

1595
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:06,040
that. 
That's interesting. 

1596
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:12,360
I mean, The thing is I think 
it's hard to do the left hand 

1597
01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:14,000
side company nowadays. 
It is very hard. 

1598
01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:17,760
And the reason I think it is 
hard to do that is like the 

1599
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:20,600
argument, you know for example 
the the so-called lifestyle 

1600
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,840
business argument that 37 
signals made for a long time. 

1601
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:29,880
The problem I always have with 
that is if you don't intend to 

1602
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:33,360
scale a business, then you 
intend to run the business for 

1603
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:35,680
the rest of your life. 
So the lifestyle business is 

1604
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:39,440
actually the rest of your life. 
Whereas it's actually easier to 

1605
01:19:39,440 --> 01:19:43,600
build a business that is a 
gigantic thing because then you 

1606
01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:45,360
can sell a piece of it at some 
point. 

1607
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:48,040
Unless, and yeah, sometimes it's
a project you do want to run for

1608
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:50,000
the rest of your life, right? 
But unless you want to run it 

1609
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,520
for the rest of your life, you 
want to actually build it as a 

1610
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:54,640
company that you might be able 
to sell and then do something 

1611
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:56,280
else in life. 
If you want to do something else

1612
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,840
in life. 
Number 2 is a lifestyle business

1613
01:19:59,880 --> 01:20:02,080
is not necessarily more 
competitive in the market than a

1614
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:04,720
scaled business. 
Because it is attracting almost 

1615
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:06,720
definitionally less ambitious 
people, right? 

1616
01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:08,760
That's the bigger problem. 
I say that's right. 

1617
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:12,920
And so the ambitious people who 
want to conquer the world will 

1618
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:16,800
optimize the heck out of every 
screen and every flow and so and

1619
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,240
so forth. 
And Even so we think of as you 

1620
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:22,920
know, simple like a like AI 
don't know nowadays people 

1621
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:25,360
because something is easy to 
them. 

1622
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,240
They sometimes, unless they're 
experienced, they think it's 

1623
01:20:27,240 --> 01:20:30,320
easy to build like WhatsApp or 
Discord. 

1624
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:32,760
You don't necessarily feel like 
you're doing something very 

1625
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:34,280
sophisticated when you're using 
it. 

1626
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:37,080
You're just typing in some chat 
stuff to somebody on the other 

1627
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:38,320
side. 
It seems basic. 

1628
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:41,520
When you want to implement it 
and actually make it work at the

1629
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,000
scale that it works, it's 
actually quite challenging. 

1630
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,840
I thought quite hard, but just 
video uploading from, I don't 

1631
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:51,320
know, Brazil and having it 
viewed in India and America and 

1632
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:54,040
Japan all at the same time 
seamlessly with replies coming 

1633
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:58,360
back and you know, deliver at 
least one semantics and 500 

1634
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:00,080
other kinds of things. 
It's hard, right. 

1635
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:07,440
So the the lifestyle business 
kind of thing isn't thinking 

1636
01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:09,800
about Polish. 
I think I was right. 

1637
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:14,560
So that's my my counter argument
is I'm not sure the low risk 

1638
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,200
business exists as much. 
You know, you're right. 

1639
01:21:17,480 --> 01:21:20,480
Low local capital, though, to 
edit what you're saying to, to 

1640
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:22,400
let me, let me let me take part 
of what you're saying, which I 

1641
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:25,040
do agree with. 
I think the small business 

1642
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:27,400
exists. 
The small business with a few 

1643
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:31,200
people that with AI and with 
crypto and with interest rate 

1644
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:35,360
distribution can do really well.
Like telegrams, only 30 people, 

1645
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:38,080
right? 
And WhatsApp is only 55. 

1646
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:39,600
Instagram. 
This thing was only about sub 20

1647
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:42,080
people. 
That business definitely exists 

1648
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:43,480
and that business will continue 
to exist. 

1649
01:21:43,480 --> 01:21:44,880
So it's just an edit on what 
you're saying. 

1650
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,160
Perhaps not low risk, but low. 
Capital, yeah. 

1651
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:50,680
And then I guess the thesis that
some people have and I don't 

1652
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,000
know how it's going to play out,
but you're absolutely right. 

1653
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:58,560
I think what you're saying is 
court and code, you put 10B plus

1654
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:02,360
people and put them together, 
they could be 10 companies, less

1655
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:04,440
ambition, less finesse or 
whatever. 

1656
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:07,640
The combination becomes AC minus
automatically. 

1657
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:10,640
It doesn't become 10B plus. 
There's not even stay B plus 

1658
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:12,560
anymore. 
It's become less exactly. 

1659
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:15,040
But I, I totally get that. 
I think what I think you're also

1660
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:18,880
right that if the job of a 
business is to suck in $1.00 and

1661
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:23,560
and you know, spit out $3 
through productivity gains and 

1662
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:26,120
high margin work or high value 
add. 

1663
01:22:26,960 --> 01:22:29,720
But they are maybe you suck in 
half a dollar and come out with 

1664
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:34,440
five and maybe possible because 
all this sprinkle magic of 

1665
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:38,400
productivity and quality and 
scalability now finally gets 

1666
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:41,280
sold with AI. 
So instead of 1 coming out with 

1667
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:43,440
four, you have half coming out 
with five. 

1668
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:46,520
And we'll see. 
I think it's, it's, it's, it's 

1669
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:50,800
showing promise at small scale. 
The challenge is that when you 

1670
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:56,520
add 1020 of these .5, you know, 
capital suckers and will 50 come

1671
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:58,120
out of the other end? 
We'll see. 

1672
01:22:58,320 --> 01:22:59,240
That's good. 
Yeah. 

1673
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:01,400
I mean, the big thing about AI 
is, I mean, there's a lot of big

1674
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:06,760
things, but the fact that it has
scalability and consistency and 

1675
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:12,080
low price, even if it does make 
errors, is still so insanely 

1676
01:23:12,080 --> 01:23:17,160
valuable because you are just 
hyper deflating the cost of the 

1677
01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,840
legal console from a lot of, you
know, from a lot of people. 

1678
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:25,640
So yeah, I think I don't. 
Know and you have a lot more 

1679
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:30,360
resilient you know what happens 
today if you're building these 

1680
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:33,400
some of these old school 
businesses you are more people 

1681
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:36,200
heavy. 
So then if you don't control 

1682
01:23:36,200 --> 01:23:38,960
demand with small businesses 
don't have a lot of control on? 

1683
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:41,360
Actually just go ahead and say 
I'll say sorry. 

1684
01:23:41,440 --> 01:23:44,440
So you have a fixed cost, you 
have people sitting on the bench

1685
01:23:44,440 --> 01:23:48,320
and there's nothing to do, you 
know, figuratively speaking. 

1686
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:51,800
But with AI and if you have 
agents doing the job and what 

1687
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:54,560
one point they'll be able to do 
pretty much end to end of a 

1688
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:55,720
variety of things. 
OK. 

1689
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,560
I'll come back to OK here. 
And then what happens is you can

1690
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:01,720
then you can just purely focus 
on scaling demand because supply

1691
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:03,280
can scale infinitely with 
demand. 

1692
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:07,600
So you shift your fixed cost 
into an operating cost, you lose

1693
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:11,840
operating leverage, but you are 
essentially scaling a business 

1694
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:17,160
with exact same, a reputable, 
scalable, predictable cash flow 

1695
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:19,480
profile. 
You know, the moment you get 10X

1696
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:23,720
demand, you can copy paste 10X 
agents with the same quality of 

1697
01:24:23,720 --> 01:24:26,960
service and the cost will become
variable because now you're 

1698
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:29,640
paying more for infrastructure 
for 10 times more agents. 

1699
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:34,160
But you are essentially in lock 
step with demand. 

1700
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:36,760
The demand goes out, the 
customer says you're not good, 

1701
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:38,720
I'm gone. 
You can kill the agents and 

1702
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:41,560
you're, you're back to lock step
with the demand. 

1703
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,720
So your revenue and margin 
profile stays pretty much in 

1704
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:47,360
lock step. 
You're but but you are a lot 

1705
01:24:47,360 --> 01:24:51,120
more resilient through the 
cycles and which is important 

1706
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,040
for a small business. 
Large businesses always need 

1707
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:55,000
control over the stuff. 
That's what we're starting to 

1708
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:57,480
see now happen because of Yeah, 
please. 

1709
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:00,000
Yeah. 
So I think the only part I may 

1710
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,080
discreetly on that is the end to
end part. 

1711
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:05,520
I think it depends on the task. 
So if it's a robot placing 

1712
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:08,400
things, that is something where 
the verifying of whether it's 

1713
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:11,640
placed is easy. 
But many other tasks it's 

1714
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:17,160
actually it's actually middle to
middle so you will have to 

1715
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:18,680
prompt it and you have to verify
it. 

1716
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:21,000
I see. 
But AI is mil to mil and then 

1717
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:22,920
you take care of the. 
Ants you do then you can't scale

1718
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:25,320
that what you say. 
Yes, it's a the not so basically

1719
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:27,720
all the depending on how much 
the middle part takes in any 

1720
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:31,240
process, the part after 
prompting and before verifying 

1721
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,000
that now compresses to prompting
and verifying. 

1722
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:37,240
But it means, for example, as a 
coder you have to specify and 

1723
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:39,320
then you have to review the code
at the other end and then 

1724
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:41,240
integrate it, right. 
And that's like the job of an 

1725
01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:43,280
engineering manager is actually 
higher skill than job than 

1726
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:46,120
somebody who's an engineer. 
And so I'm not saying it's not a

1727
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:50,080
productivity winner, It is, but 
it is amplified intelligence in 

1728
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:52,360
many ways rather than 
artificially eugenic artificial 

1729
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:53,840
intelligence, right. 
So the smarter you are, the 

1730
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:56,200
smarter it is. 
But I will give one analogy 

1731
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:57,480
you're going. 
To say something, I was saying 

1732
01:25:57,480 --> 01:26:01,320
that that verify prompt to 
verify loop. 

1733
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:05,080
I think it's a shifting window 
where things you have verified 

1734
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:08,080
prompt to verify enough times we
get auto verify and auto 

1735
01:26:08,080 --> 01:26:09,880
confidence. 
So the question, I mean in the 

1736
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:14,000
last 2 1/2 years of AI since 
chat, the chat shift team 

1737
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,280
moment, I don't feel that's true
yet. 

1738
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:20,800
Of recording it's bidding to be 
true well I. 

1739
01:26:20,840 --> 01:26:23,480
I don't think, I think the 
verifying part is still hard 

1740
01:26:23,480 --> 01:26:26,320
because actually I learn to be 
more precise on the front end 

1741
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:31,480
for images and for video and for
for front end code that you can 

1742
01:26:31,480 --> 01:26:34,920
verify with a different thing, 
which is you verify with the GP 

1743
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:37,360
us from your eye for your brain.
You can instantly see something 

1744
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,040
is wrong because it's like 2 
hands or it's got a messed up 

1745
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:42,960
button or something like that. 
So that's where verifying is 

1746
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:46,000
cheap. 
Put on the back end for logic, 

1747
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:49,400
for database code, for crypto 
code, security code. 

1748
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:52,080
That is actually where verifying
is expensive. 

1749
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:55,360
Maybe we can turn it into 
something which is visual. 

1750
01:26:55,480 --> 01:26:58,800
And so you can visualize almost 
like, for example, an audio 

1751
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,040
file, you can turn into a 
spectrogram and you can see if 

1752
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:05,000
there's some giant spikes of 
amplitude and that looks broken.

1753
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,240
You can quickly see it with your
eye, but you can't quickly 

1754
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:10,480
listen with your ear, right? 
So it's possible we might be 

1755
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:15,400
able to, for example, generate 
some visualization of the code 

1756
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:16,920
so you can quickly visually 
verify it. 

1757
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:20,240
So that generation itself has to
be deterministic code rather 

1758
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:23,560
than probabilistic. 
But that's why I divide. 

1759
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:26,360
I'd say the front end stuff, the
images, videos, that's what AI 

1760
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:30,840
is amazing for because the 
verifying is cheap and but but 

1761
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:34,000
the back end code verifying is 
expensive, which is a non 

1762
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:35,720
obvious division. 
I think that, I don't think I 

1763
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:37,640
tweeted about that, but I don't 
think people have made exactly 

1764
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,120
that division. 
And give another analogy, which 

1765
01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:44,400
is many businesses for a long 
time until, you know, basically 

1766
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:46,800
the the 80s, they were doing 
their accounting with piece of 

1767
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:48,720
paper, not spreadsheets. 
So the instruction of 

1768
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:51,000
spreadsheet compressed that 
whole middle step of adding up 

1769
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,040
all the numbers. 
They used to have a mailroom at 

1770
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:55,320
companies rather than e-mail. 
And then the instruction of 

1771
01:27:55,320 --> 01:27:58,120
e-mail just basically tipped 
that completely away and it 

1772
01:27:58,120 --> 01:28:02,120
pushed it to other things. 
And it's our example when 

1773
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:06,160
running a clinical lab because 
we started it in such a way that

1774
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:07,800
it actually had a database at 
the core. 

1775
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:11,120
I could run a query and it could
just give out all kinds of 

1776
01:28:11,120 --> 01:28:15,360
analytics and stuff like, you 
know, which variants were 

1777
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:18,240
present with which other 
variants and which insurance 

1778
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:21,200
companies and all this kind of 
stuff that it cost millions of 

1779
01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:23,800
dollars for a traditional 
clinical lab to try to find 

1780
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:27,400
those analytics on some process.
I could, for example, bottleneck

1781
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:32,120
identification worked as follows
because every station in the 

1782
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:35,560
click lab, when you when you 
create a record in Postgres, you

1783
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:38,080
get a create an AT timestamp for
free. 

1784
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:42,600
That meant that later when we 
had, you know, we wanted to 

1785
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:45,840
prove turn around time, we could
take every station, station one 

1786
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:49,760
through station, let's say 20. 
And these were in a complicated 

1787
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:51,840
order because sometimes you have
to revert back to a station. 

1788
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:54,720
You can take a sample and you 
take it's created at timestamp 

1789
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:58,680
at all these stations and you 
can make a graph of the sample 

1790
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:02,520
moving through stations. 
Then every edge between them, 

1791
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,360
you have the time that it took. 
And you can start making the 

1792
01:29:05,360 --> 01:29:09,760
histogram of like, oh, did this 
have a long delay at times, 

1793
01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:11,320
right? 
Or does this have a high 

1794
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:13,440
variance? 
So you can make the edges wiggly

1795
01:29:13,440 --> 01:29:15,400
if they're high variance, you 
can make them red if they've got

1796
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:16,800
a long delay and so on and so 
forth. 

1797
01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:19,880
And this fashion on a big 
monitor, you can instantly 

1798
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:23,680
visualize all the blaze and 
you're like, oh, right, there is

1799
01:29:23,680 --> 01:29:27,720
the highest variance and slowest
step and we need to add 3 more 

1800
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:29,760
pico greens or something to 
paralyze, right? 

1801
01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:32,520
So that kind of analytics you 
couldn't get. 

1802
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:35,520
And so that's how I think of Ki 
becoming the brain of many 

1803
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,320
companies, right? 
Lots of processes that were 

1804
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:41,480
previously as manual as a mail 
room or previously as manual as 

1805
01:29:41,480 --> 01:29:44,360
count to get numbers though. 
Yeah, it just takes care of that

1806
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:46,080
middle part. 
Then you still have to kind of 

1807
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:48,400
do the end caps. 
Yeah, interesting. 

1808
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:49,640
Yes, I'm just going to look at 
it. 

1809
01:29:50,120 --> 01:29:53,200
You've been thinking about this 
quite a lot, but I think of 

1810
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:54,880
again, as that I'm not diving 
into AI. 

1811
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:59,400
The course is fantastic. 
You're familiar with formal 

1812
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:00,960
theory, right? 
It's almost like like formal 

1813
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:02,480
verification, formal 
verification, right? 

1814
01:30:02,480 --> 01:30:05,440
So you almost can verify the 
output within the system itself.

1815
01:30:05,440 --> 01:30:06,720
So you know, it's actually 
accurate. 

1816
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:09,320
And I think it's an NB hard 
problem because you don't know 

1817
01:30:09,320 --> 01:30:12,680
what other accuracies are there 
that you're not covering because

1818
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:14,680
you're not programmed to to to 
measure it. 

1819
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:19,120
But, but I think I think of AI 
systems because they're 

1820
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:22,440
probabilistic, it is much harder
to measure accuracy. 

1821
01:30:22,440 --> 01:30:26,320
And how do you measure accuracy 
for a poem that you write as six

1822
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:28,360
PL. and you don't know it is 
accurate or not? 

1823
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:33,440
It's a feel, it's a why. 
But I think the IT will be, I 

1824
01:30:33,440 --> 01:30:36,160
think the next revolution of AI 
will happen when you are able to

1825
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:40,440
formally verify output and 
quality of output in a way that 

1826
01:30:40,440 --> 01:30:47,080
is, that is that closes the loop
on the prompt that begins the 

1827
01:30:47,480 --> 01:30:50,880
production of the tokens that 
you see as photos, videos or 

1828
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:52,720
whatever. 
What does that mean mostly as 

1829
01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:54,920
systems today are actually open 
loop systems. 

1830
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:56,320
They are not closed loop 
systems. 

1831
01:30:57,760 --> 01:31:01,560
Take for example, Clay dot 
Ayani, fantastic company. 

1832
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:03,680
We, many of our companies use 
Clay dot AAI. 

1833
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:08,040
It takes inputs from, you know, 
CRM, May 6th sense sort of Zoom 

1834
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:10,360
info. 
It'll do some research. 

1835
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:13,200
It can figure it out, you know, 
this person, even there's AVC 

1836
01:31:13,200 --> 01:31:16,040
here, age, whatever gender, 
whatever, living here or there 

1837
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:19,880
and write me a beautiful 
customized e-mail to me. 

1838
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,720
It'll write a million copies for
a million people and then pushes

1839
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:25,400
into a offspot, and Offspot does
the programming and has the 

1840
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:26,960
campaign. 
Management, but the problem is 

1841
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:28,880
now I don't want to read those 
emails. 

1842
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,360
That's another problem to solve.
That's the AI to sort of fix 

1843
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:34,640
that. 
But where does the loop get 

1844
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:36,600
open? 
Is that now there's these, Even 

1845
01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:39,200
the God lost spot, hot spot puts
a tracker in there. 

1846
01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:41,200
It puts a headline in. 
There No, I know, I know. 

1847
01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:45,000
But what I'm saying though, is 
when it increases the generation

1848
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:47,480
of stuff to such an extent, 
it'll break that Channel that 

1849
01:31:47,480 --> 01:31:50,920
was working and I don't even 
read e-mail anymore. 

1850
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:54,840
And then and then I kind of 
don't already basically seems 

1851
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:56,960
like, Oh, I sent you, you know, 
I'll go and look a grabber. 

1852
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:00,840
And so instead you go to other 
channels that are high trust 

1853
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:02,160
channels. 
If people don't have the number 

1854
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:03,800
two or something like that, 
right? 

1855
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:06,640
And that's where actually where 
your true messaging is now AI 

1856
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:08,640
can't get in there. 
The whole point is not AI, 

1857
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:11,480
right? 
So, so I think that there's 

1858
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:16,960
there's a, there's a window 
right now, yes, where generated 

1859
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:19,600
stuff from AI will overwhelm all
kinds of missing channels and 

1860
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:22,000
there'll be a reaction against 
some Shamali scene where people 

1861
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:24,480
are like. 
But the reaction is where the 

1862
01:32:24,480 --> 01:32:26,320
loop is closed. 
OK, go ahead. 

1863
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:30,520
Because when you send this out 
to a spawn and you say I don't 

1864
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:33,640
care, I'll never open an e-mail 
that looks by the other e-mail. 

1865
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:37,200
That information is not coming 
back to Clay today. 

1866
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:39,960
It's staying in WhatsApp. 
It's staying sure, sure. 

1867
01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:41,640
Yes. 
So they have put the trackers 

1868
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:43,200
in. 
They don't know what kind of 

1869
01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:46,320
subject lines people open and 
what times when you send it 

1870
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:49,320
people open or do you have it in
STML or with NVIDIA made it in 

1871
01:32:49,320 --> 01:32:53,760
it and hotspot knows. 
So Click does not know how to 

1872
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:55,960
improve its AI, how to make it 
better. 

1873
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:58,680
So you open it tomorrow day 
after one year later. 

1874
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:02,400
So that loop never gets close 
and these are softer loops that.

1875
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:03,720
Either layers there, that's 
true. 

1876
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:06,960
So so one part of that I do 
agree with, which is the closing

1877
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:08,720
of the loop in terms of open 
rates and so on. 

1878
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:11,840
But the other part is just that 
systemically rates will trend 

1879
01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:14,280
down when as people are 
increasing the number of their 

1880
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:17,760
AI, you know, like emails 
getting sent out and I think 

1881
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:20,760
you're going to start. 
So the the complement to that is

1882
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:25,840
going to be crypto because you 
can charge cryptocurrency for 

1883
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:26,800
emails. 
Yeah, right. 

1884
01:33:26,800 --> 01:33:29,520
And we could do that. 
And I had a company and I and I 

1885
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:31,000
wanted to use a more wanted 
company. 

1886
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:32,680
How is that? 
Well, so I want to do the V2 of 

1887
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:36,120
that right, basically because I 
think tasking is going to become

1888
01:33:36,120 --> 01:33:42,600
a big thing. 
But the the reason for that is I

1889
01:33:42,600 --> 01:33:45,280
think and makes everything fake.
Crypto makes it real again. 

1890
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:48,920
Crypto sets up hard digital 
borders that AI can't cross. 

1891
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:52,520
Like AI cannot fake the private 
keys for a cryptocurrency. 

1892
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:55,600
AI cannot pose as something with
a crypto identity. 

1893
01:33:56,600 --> 01:33:59,800
AI cannot manipulate on chain 
data for all of that. 

1894
01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:03,840
This is like it's like a hard 
deal border that these AI agents

1895
01:34:03,840 --> 01:34:07,080
can't bust, right? 
So that's where you can count on

1896
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:10,400
on the Internet are block chains
that are unhackable. 

1897
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:13,800
And then that because it's like 
a hard surface that actually 

1898
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:18,000
becomes the verifiable Internet,
which is Web 3 and or the 

1899
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:20,960
verifiable web and then Web one 
and Web 2. 

1900
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:22,680
Web 1 is like, you know, the 
World Wide Web. 

1901
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:24,680
Web 2 is like, let's say it's 
social web, right? 

1902
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:28,640
Web 2 is becoming closed because
X and other things need to stop 

1903
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:31,200
AI scraping. 
And then web one is becoming 

1904
01:34:31,200 --> 01:34:35,440
spam, right? 
And so you get spam or paywalled

1905
01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:37,440
closed. 
And then you have Web 3 be the 

1906
01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:39,840
open web, the cryptographic 
signed web, right? 

1907
01:34:40,240 --> 01:34:42,480
And I think that's where we're 
going to go. 

1908
01:34:42,760 --> 01:34:45,360
What's the intersection of AI in
book three that you'll see like 

1909
01:34:45,360 --> 01:34:47,320
a use case section? 
Like it's kind of yeah. 

1910
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:49,920
So there's a few, well, some 
that we're working on it, right?

1911
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:53,720
But so the, the one that's out 
there in public that everybody 

1912
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:57,640
knows is AI agents using crypto 
to pay for things because the 

1913
01:34:57,640 --> 01:34:59,360
crypto is currency of the 
Internet, right? 

1914
01:34:59,520 --> 01:35:02,000
Since it works across borders. 
And an EI agent can boot up an 

1915
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:05,040
address, pay another AI agent 
who can receive it, right? 

1916
01:35:05,400 --> 01:35:07,920
So just that alone is like 
clearly a big thing. 

1917
01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:10,480
And EI agents can sign smart 
contracts with other AI agents. 

1918
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:15,160
So any kind of automate trading,
you know, or, or transactions, 

1919
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:18,680
cryptocurrency will be the way 
that AI is, you know, going by 

1920
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:19,960
things. 
So an intelligent agent, you 

1921
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:22,560
know, which people talk about in
the late 90s, you need to book 

1922
01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:23,880
the AI and crypto to be at 
scale. 

1923
01:35:24,120 --> 01:35:25,840
You need crypto so that 
everybody could accept the 

1924
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:28,760
transactions across borders on 
Internet AI agents to be able to

1925
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:31,720
go and swim the web and, and 
find, find those things. 

1926
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:37,280
So that's one piece. 
A second piece is, and I think 

1927
01:35:37,280 --> 01:35:41,520
this is most interesting for me 
is on chain data as the thing 

1928
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:44,600
that AI can't falsify. 
So like the verification step 

1929
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:50,720
and so on and so forth. 
So that to me is what I call 

1930
01:35:50,720 --> 01:35:53,280
like the Ledger of record, like 
rather than the paper of record 

1931
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:55,520
where just argument from 
assertion, you have 

1932
01:35:55,520 --> 01:35:58,320
cryptographic verification. 
And right now that only works 

1933
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:01,080
for financial facts because 
financial facts are going on 

1934
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:02,600
chain. 
But the block chain is actually 

1935
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:05,160
the crypto more generally is the
#4 market in the world. 

1936
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:09,080
Do you know that like #1 I see 
#2 NASDAQ #3 Shenzhen #4 crypto,

1937
01:36:09,160 --> 01:36:10,440
right? 
And it's quickly gaining. 

1938
01:36:10,440 --> 01:36:13,200
It's going to become the number 
one, like Internet capital 

1939
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:17,200
markets will also be Indian 
capital markets, right? 

1940
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:19,520
Like the way I'd look at this, 
and this is a 5 or 10 year 

1941
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:21,120
thing, but it's not more than 
that, right? 

1942
01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:25,840
We now finally have the on chain
dollar, right, On chain Fiat. 

1943
01:36:26,520 --> 01:36:28,360
That's going to mean you also 
have on chain, not just 

1944
01:36:28,360 --> 01:36:31,200
currency, but on chain equity 
and on chain fund interests. 

1945
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,400
So very soon every Internet 
company will have an Internet 

1946
01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:37,880
equity. 
For almost 10 years. 

1947
01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:40,840
This was pathologized because of
the SEC and their jihad against 

1948
01:36:40,840 --> 01:36:42,880
crypto and so on and so forth 
against and all discuss and 

1949
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:45,600
they'd all be like you said, a 
security and so on. 

1950
01:36:45,600 --> 01:36:49,400
They'd like, you know, and but 
the obvious point is you wanted 

1951
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:51,880
a legal pathway to put a 
security on chain. 

1952
01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:55,560
Duh, right, And that's not 
dishonest or anything like that.

1953
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:58,440
It's like saying don't record 
your securities in an Excel 

1954
01:36:58,440 --> 01:37:00,080
spreadsheet. 
You need to do on a piece of 

1955
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:02,360
paper. 
So you went from, you know, a 

1956
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:04,640
piece of paper to a cap table, 
right? 

1957
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:06,680
Why can't you go to a coin 
table? 

1958
01:37:07,160 --> 01:37:09,760
Obviously you should because 
that is kind of like, you know, 

1959
01:37:09,760 --> 01:37:12,240
the intermediate step is like 
Carter or Angel list, which are 

1960
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:14,720
great, great things, right? 
So you go, it's almost like the 

1961
01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:17,520
the sense of man. 
You know, the caveman is like 

1962
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:19,280
actually the caveman doesn't 
have the company at all, right. 

1963
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:22,480
Then you've got piece of paper 
or you know, then you've got the

1964
01:37:22,480 --> 01:37:25,200
cap table and spreadsheet. 
Then you've got Carta writer 

1965
01:37:25,200 --> 01:37:28,160
Angel of sugary companies and 
then you've got Bianchi and coin

1966
01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:30,720
table. 
The advantage of this is, you 

1967
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:34,600
know, something I didn't 
actually realize arguably until 

1968
01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:37,640
crypto international law, 
international trade did not 

1969
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:38,760
exist. 
You know why I say that? 

1970
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:42,400
So let's say you've got you're 
an Indian company and there's a 

1971
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:45,440
there's like a Brazilian company
that you want to acquire, right?

1972
01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:49,440
How many people speak both 
Portuguese and Hindi? 

1973
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,120
Not that many, right? 
OK, maybe speak English on both 

1974
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:55,200
sides, but how many people have 
done Indian Brazilian 

1975
01:37:55,200 --> 01:37:57,680
acquisitions or Indian Paraguay 
or something like that? 

1976
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:00,520
Not too many, right? 
So what people end up doing is 

1977
01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:04,360
they use AUS company as the 
adapter between the two because 

1978
01:38:04,440 --> 01:38:05,720
US did enough business with both
them. 

1979
01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:09,240
They use U.S. law and so this 
way they they they make it work.

1980
01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:11,040
So the US actually turned out to
be the central hub. 

1981
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:13,240
They reduced it to a hub and 
spoke problem rather than a 

1982
01:38:13,240 --> 01:38:15,280
peer-to-peer problem. 
The other country that 

1983
01:38:15,320 --> 01:38:18,000
increasingly you could not one 
could the Chinese people could 

1984
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:21,840
use is China where they can use 
that because that also does 

1985
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:24,040
enough business with both 
countries that there's some 

1986
01:38:24,280 --> 01:38:27,000
bilateral thing a Chinese 
company can buy this one and 

1987
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:29,000
sell this one or some something 
along those lines, right? 

1988
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:33,800
But now with crypto, you have 
global rule of code. 

1989
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:38,600
So eventually that just like 
when you came to India, you had 

1990
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:41,200
global mail, right? 
Because your mail just worked, 

1991
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:43,920
right? 
And you had global movies and 

1992
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:46,960
you had global media, your your 
Twitter just work. 

1993
01:38:46,960 --> 01:38:49,160
Everything else just worked. 
You will have global money. 

1994
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:53,160
And global entity and global. 
Instance exactly because if you 

1995
01:38:53,160 --> 01:38:56,120
think about what is an entity, 
first you have Bitcoin, then you

1996
01:38:56,120 --> 01:38:58,760
have stablecoins and you say you
have all the transactions on 

1997
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:02,160
share and then you have all the 
transactions on share of a 

1998
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:03,600
company. 
Once you have all the 

1999
01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:06,120
transactions, you can generate 
financial statements. 

2000
01:39:06,480 --> 01:39:08,520
Once you can generate all the 
transactions, you can also have 

2001
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:10,520
the cap table there. 
So the collect, you know, the 

2002
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:12,600
cap table plus all the 
transactions, plus all the smart

2003
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:15,280
contracts, that is what a 
company is, right? 

2004
01:39:15,560 --> 01:39:18,520
So you have an on chain entity 
and it actually lives on chain 

2005
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:21,760
and that floats above and you 
can port it between 

2006
01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:25,280
jurisdictions, right? 
Just like you can port 

2007
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:28,800
everything else. 
The reason that's harder to do 

2008
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:31,760
than all the other things we've 
done before is it is like a 

2009
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:34,400
group of people. 
It's like law, it's money, it's 

2010
01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:36,880
like high stakes stuff. 
But we're getting there, right? 

2011
01:39:37,160 --> 01:39:39,080
And I think that's going to be 
one of the most important areas 

2012
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:43,120
for Indians, but actually 
anybody who's not in the US or 

2013
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:45,280
China to really invest in 
actually, frankly, lots of 

2014
01:39:45,280 --> 01:39:46,960
Americans and Chinese will 
benefit from as well. 

2015
01:39:47,440 --> 01:39:52,280
But especially if you're not in 
a quote in a, in a country that 

2016
01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:55,520
is contending for being the 
global number one, you want 

2017
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:58,040
crypto because it protects your 
rights online. 

2018
01:39:58,440 --> 01:40:01,320
You know what I mean, right? 
And it protects your rights 

2019
01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:03,640
abroad. 
It gives you like currency that 

2020
01:40:03,640 --> 01:40:05,600
can't be seized, gives you 
contracts that can't be 

2021
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:07,560
unilaterally abrogated. 
You're like a first class 

2022
01:40:07,560 --> 01:40:09,600
citizen on the Internet. 
Even if you're a second class 

2023
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:12,160
citizen in America, that's like 
a really deep point. 

2024
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:15,160
Like, you know, people can mess 
with your H1B visa, they can 

2025
01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:17,840
make it hard for you to start a 
company or something like that 

2026
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:19,920
in the US. 
They cannot make it hard for you

2027
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:22,080
to move your Bitcoin. 
Yeah, you're saying, I think at 

2028
01:40:22,080 --> 01:40:25,040
some point in time if what it is
your possible. 

2029
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:27,840
That's right. 
And yeah, I wouldn't look at it.

2030
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:29,440
I think it's starting to really 
play out. 

2031
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:31,520
What's exciting you in crypto 
today. 

2032
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:33,440
I mean, we keep you think about 
stables a lot. 

2033
01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:34,960
We'll see it to be so. 
You know what? 

2034
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:36,960
You know I launched your CC at 
Coinbase, right? 

2035
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:37,440
Well done. 
Well, yeah. 

2036
01:40:37,440 --> 01:40:39,880
You want to see something we we 
can put up, we'll put that on 

2037
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:46,040
screen or whatever. 
We're launching support for a 

2038
01:40:46,040 --> 01:40:49,480
new stable coin called USD coin.
We call it a stable coin because

2039
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:53,760
one USD coin can reliably and 
stably be exchanged for exactly 

2040
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:59,040
one U.S. dollar. 
So October 23rd, 2018, like we 

2041
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:01,400
put in the 25 mil, we 
collateralized the consortium, 

2042
01:41:01,400 --> 01:41:03,800
we launched the like that whole 
thing doesn't exist without. 

2043
01:41:04,120 --> 01:41:07,160
Old blotch. 
Wasn't that the like a massive 

2044
01:41:07,880 --> 01:41:09,680
bull period in 2018? 
Oh. 

2045
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:12,680
That was a bear period that was 
a bear period 2017 was a bull to

2046
01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:15,480
this was extreme bear period yes
yes, this is what these are in 

2047
01:41:15,480 --> 01:41:17,800
crypto had fallen Bitcoin had 
fallen down to like 5000 or 

2048
01:41:17,800 --> 01:41:22,160
something from 20 is down 75%. 
But you know I'm an old weather.

2049
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:24,040
You know I believed in this. 
You know, there are multiple 

2050
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:25,840
bubbles and cycles and so on and
so forth. 

2051
01:41:26,440 --> 01:41:31,880
And so, yeah. 
And basically the the graph on 

2052
01:41:31,880 --> 01:41:34,200
that, that that was October 
23rd, 2018. 

2053
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:35,760
And I'll show you the graph 
actually. 

2054
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:39,400
And was it called 17,000 or 
something like an increase 17? 

2055
01:41:39,560 --> 01:41:41,960
I remember I was lost. 
In yeah, they heard 20,020. 

2056
01:41:42,200 --> 01:41:45,960
I've got the the price graph is 
harmed in it's like a tat. 

2057
01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:48,520
I don't get any tats, but I do 
have that as a tat in my brain. 

2058
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:55,280
So here is like so UCC. 
Let's see if I can show the 

2059
01:41:55,280 --> 01:42:00,440
exact area. 
October 23rd, 2018, Zero. 

2060
01:42:01,080 --> 01:42:02,800
Wow. 
Right. 

2061
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:05,160
Is that cool? 
That's amazing and. 

2062
01:42:05,280 --> 01:42:07,880
Now it's at 60 billion dollars, 
$10 billion. 

2063
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:08,920
Right. 
Crazy, Crazy. 

2064
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:11,760
Right. 
So mine good, mine good, right? 

2065
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:14,600
That's only seven years ago and 
it's now like a few percent of 

2066
01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:17,040
transactions for the dollar 
globally, right? 

2067
01:42:17,040 --> 01:42:19,320
It'll become everything in a few
years, right? 

2068
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:22,600
So why don't we just wrap up 
Lightning round and so and so 

2069
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:24,280
forth. 
I'll just go through a bunch of 

2070
01:42:24,280 --> 01:42:26,760
different areas, get your 
thoughts on just give you a one 

2071
01:42:26,760 --> 01:42:29,400
word and you can be in a few, 
you know, so on. 

2072
01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:33,720
Let's see, we did a bit of AI, 
so biotech. 

2073
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:35,960
Have you talked about that at 
all since your group cloud is? 

2074
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:41,000
A little bit of it, a little 
bit. 

2075
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:44,200
What is interesting to being 
biotech now is, is it a long 

2076
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:45,480
answer you want or a short 
answer? 

2077
01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:47,040
Give me the Medium library, 
yeah? 

2078
01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:49,680
OK. 
So in the context of India, what

2079
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:54,680
I didn't know is that if you 
think about imagining new 

2080
01:42:54,680 --> 01:42:58,960
molecules that we cure diseases 
to building chemistries for it, 

2081
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:01,640
to testing it and then deploying
and launching and scaling it. 

2082
01:43:02,440 --> 01:43:05,640
If you think about the thinking 
of new molecules as a head, 

2083
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:09,600
India has the body, you don't 
have the legs yet. 

2084
01:43:09,600 --> 01:43:14,400
The body is turning those ideas 
into chemistries, trying it out 

2085
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:17,760
and then doing animal tests and 
then first layer of human tests 

2086
01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:20,360
and then Cushing it back and 
they cushion back to a Pfizer or

2087
01:43:20,360 --> 01:43:24,080
whatever in the US and they they
cover legs. 

2088
01:43:24,360 --> 01:43:27,400
They have the brains that tell 
an Indian company what to build 

2089
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:29,760
and the other 5 or 1015 
chemistries they should build 

2090
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:33,400
and then go test out. 
And then it's a near, you know, 

2091
01:43:33,400 --> 01:43:37,000
second stage human trial or the 
approval stays and it respect 

2092
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:39,840
the US. 
They finished the process and 

2093
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:42,400
for cancer is like 5 years for 
something simpler like a few 

2094
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:46,520
months and then they go 
prioritize package cells 

2095
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:49,280
manufacturer and sell. 
The LLM is now if you're 

2096
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:51,080
starting to see is there's a 
recent paper that came out of 

2097
01:43:51,080 --> 01:43:55,400
Stanford two months back is that
they tried out 7576 different 

2098
01:43:55,720 --> 01:43:59,400
modalities and figured out, you 
know, I don't know, binding 

2099
01:43:59,400 --> 01:44:02,360
efficiencies for each of those 
of certain diseases and all of 

2100
01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:03,720
that. 
And then they came up with two 

2101
01:44:03,720 --> 01:44:07,360
chemistries in six weeks, what 
it used to take two to three 

2102
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:11,400
years and then they actually had
successful lab rat tests. 

2103
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:15,320
So what's interesting to me 
right on biotech is that India 

2104
01:44:15,480 --> 01:44:18,760
did not have a head, but it had 
the body, it didn't have the 

2105
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:20,560
legs. 
Now we have a head. 

2106
01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:25,080
So you could then build a fully 
integrated biotech company out 

2107
01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:28,960
of India that does not yet know 
how to product, personalize and 

2108
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:32,280
sell and package it. 
But what they would do is, you 

2109
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:34,920
know, what used to be called 
what I think mostly like 

2110
01:44:35,160 --> 01:44:37,600
contract. 
Yeah, CCRO. 

2111
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:41,480
Clos, no you don't have. 
You can take the CR of that, you

2112
01:44:41,480 --> 01:44:44,800
can design your own drugs, 
manufacture as you put it, push 

2113
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:47,160
it back to the US. 
This is this is similar to how 

2114
01:44:47,160 --> 01:44:50,080
China started as like just main,
you know, just like a low end 

2115
01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:52,880
thing and then eventually it 
went up the value chain and 

2116
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:54,680
actually the CEO around China. 
And so correct. 

2117
01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:55,920
That's right. 
That's interesting. 

2118
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:58,880
OK, that's good. 
So media. 

2119
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:03,320
So one of my theses is India 
becomes a media superpower but 

2120
01:45:03,320 --> 01:45:06,040
in the following sense. 
Not in the sense that Bollywood 

2121
01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:10,000
takes over the world, but rather
that Indians are very good at 

2122
01:45:10,000 --> 01:45:12,240
content creation and become a 
larger and larger and larger 

2123
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:13,840
percentage of content created 
online. 

2124
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:14,720
Let me hear your thoughts on 
that. 

2125
01:45:15,280 --> 01:45:16,480
Yeah, they're starting to see 
it. 

2126
01:45:16,480 --> 01:45:19,160
We actually have backed a few 
companies that are essentially 

2127
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:22,280
current creators, young kids 
creating content and then 

2128
01:45:22,280 --> 01:45:26,720
publicizing it. 
So and they're so big native 

2129
01:45:26,720 --> 01:45:30,680
that many people are choosing to
go to as their primary job. 

2130
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:33,280
YouTube is becoming, you know, a
country phenomena. 

2131
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:37,280
I do think like I said earlier, 
Indians are the best exports. 

2132
01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:42,720
So we I'm trying to see Indians 
show up in movies and TV series 

2133
01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:45,240
and never have I ever and blah 
blah, blah. 

2134
01:45:45,240 --> 01:45:47,400
And that was not normal 5-10 
years back. 

2135
01:45:47,400 --> 01:45:51,760
Nobody popping up in big movies.
So this familiarity with the 

2136
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:54,760
culture and staying in the face 
I think is quite interesting. 

2137
01:45:54,760 --> 01:45:57,640
And all the content that is 
getting created in India, it can

2138
01:45:57,640 --> 01:46:00,600
potentially get wider in the US.
You're seeing it in gaming as 

2139
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:02,200
well. 
You know, they are culturally 

2140
01:46:02,200 --> 01:46:04,760
relevant games about Mahabharata
and Ramayana. 

2141
01:46:05,720 --> 01:46:06,800
They are getting popular in 
India. 

2142
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:10,440
And the question is can like the
way Tankai's popular everywhere 

2143
01:46:10,440 --> 01:46:14,480
in the world and we play games 
with the North Star teams and so

2144
01:46:14,480 --> 01:46:17,880
on, can that ever go expand 
beyond India and become a 

2145
01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:22,120
popular theme in the US or in 
Japan or Korea? 

2146
01:46:22,120 --> 01:46:23,360
I mean, that could be 
interesting to see. 

2147
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:26,360
Same with comic books. 
And he has a really nice, nice 

2148
01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:28,200
comic culture. 
It's kind of died out over the 

2149
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:30,760
last 10-15 years, but it's 
picking up a game that have two 

2150
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:34,120
like companies coming up and AI 
is the thing that wave and then 

2151
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:35,840
they're all very culturally 
Indian. 

2152
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:39,480
And then can you find, can you 
export that to the world, right.

2153
01:46:39,480 --> 01:46:41,680
Indian stories. 
You have a company called Pocket

2154
01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:45,240
FM and the guy essentially was 
travelling in Indian Railways 

2155
01:46:45,240 --> 01:46:47,760
and then Indian Railways have, 
you know, these are all 7-8 hour

2156
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:51,400
journeys. 
You will have these tale Lawas, 

2157
01:46:51,400 --> 01:46:54,520
you know, the guys that sell 
pocketbooks, pocket bavillas. 

2158
01:46:54,840 --> 01:46:58,280
There are spicy stories, 
romance, horror, love, adult 

2159
01:46:58,280 --> 01:47:01,440
fiction and endemic fiction. 
So he was reading, you know, 

2160
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:04,320
realized that should I could 
convert this stuff to audiobooks

2161
01:47:04,640 --> 01:47:08,960
and he converted these to short,
short form but long episodic 

2162
01:47:09,040 --> 01:47:12,720
audiobooks and it just took off 
Company called Pocket FM and 

2163
01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:17,480
they make 7250 million revenue 
an hour. 70% of it is in the US 

2164
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:22,600
Indian company building 
designing new short form 

2165
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:25,120
novellas. 
You know, spicy stories. 

2166
01:47:25,440 --> 01:47:27,960
And it's basically though at 
global quality. 

2167
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:31,840
It's not like Indian accents. 
It's not Indian only. 

2168
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:34,640
That's the key thing. 
It's yes for audio. 

2169
01:47:35,040 --> 01:47:38,080
And now they're waiting on AI 
because initially you would have

2170
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:41,440
to have humans sitting in a 
podcasting room like that to 

2171
01:47:41,440 --> 01:47:45,240
capture their voice and tone. 
And there's 4050% gross margin 

2172
01:47:45,240 --> 01:47:47,040
takes a long while. 
There are contracts that you 

2173
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:50,840
have to do over time. 
You just get to 90% gross margin

2174
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:53,680
by just using AI to create 
different synthetic voices in 

2175
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:55,800
any language. 
And then the interesting part of

2176
01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:58,800
that is you can experiment in 
India because the population is,

2177
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:01,600
is large. 
And interestingly, if something 

2178
01:48:01,600 --> 01:48:04,680
spikes in India as a story 
actually spikes in Germany, 

2179
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:07,080
except when you convert Germany,
you get to Germany. 

2180
01:48:07,560 --> 01:48:10,960
But it's the same same several 
stories in the world that keep 

2181
01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:13,920
playing out Love, loss, grief, 
it all. 

2182
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:16,040
Ambitious, it's culturally 
similar enough. 

2183
01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:18,840
See, what's interesting about 
that is I do feel China's a 

2184
01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:23,440
Galapagos Islands where the you 
know, like the animals are 

2185
01:48:23,440 --> 01:48:25,640
different there, you know, the, 
the ecosystem is different, 

2186
01:48:25,640 --> 01:48:27,160
right? 
Like, for example, Meichuan is 

2187
01:48:27,160 --> 01:48:30,920
like a huge, the equivalent of 
the Groupon in the US became a 

2188
01:48:30,920 --> 01:48:33,400
much bigger company in China. 
So they had a almost like a 

2189
01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:35,120
different evolutionary tree. 
Have you ever been to, like 

2190
01:48:35,120 --> 01:48:36,880
Socotra? 
No. 

2191
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:39,200
Scotra is like this island in 
the Middle East. 

2192
01:48:39,200 --> 01:48:40,800
Yemen, right? 
Yeah, near Yemen. 

2193
01:48:40,800 --> 01:48:43,200
Yeah, that has a totally 
different like set of trees. 

2194
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:44,720
And the ball walk trees and all 
that, Yeah. 

2195
01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:46,360
Exactly to anywhere else in the 
world, right. 

2196
01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:47,840
And so it's like a different use
of. 

2197
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:50,280
So China is like that where 
stories that take off from China

2198
01:48:50,920 --> 01:48:53,360
or vice versa don't necessarily 
happen the rest of the world and

2199
01:48:53,360 --> 01:48:55,040
etcetera. 
It's relatively rare. 

2200
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:57,840
There's a story, but but India's
connect enough because it's 

2201
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:00,600
English that it does. 
It is correlated with, let's 

2202
01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:01,200
say, Germany. 
Yeah. 

2203
01:49:01,320 --> 01:49:03,200
And that's a 95. 
Yeah, that's another thing 

2204
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:04,680
that's happening in India. 
It's pretty interesting. 

2205
01:49:05,160 --> 01:49:06,440
OK. 
All right, let me do two or 

2206
01:49:06,440 --> 01:49:09,760
three more space. 
ISRO has actually done 

2207
01:49:09,760 --> 01:49:13,400
surprisingly well, low cost 
launches or a thing and so on. 

2208
01:49:13,400 --> 01:49:15,360
Sort of tell me, you know, have 
you thought about space or 

2209
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:18,720
actually Adnicol me and Sriram 
and several other people invest 

2210
01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:20,160
in that, you know that one that 
could we? 

2211
01:49:20,160 --> 01:49:23,120
Know very well, yeah, fantastic 
company Adnicol, Skyroute, we 

2212
01:49:23,120 --> 01:49:25,000
invested in a company called 
Pixel Space. 

2213
01:49:25,000 --> 01:49:26,800
We could raise about 1995 
million. 

2214
01:49:27,120 --> 01:49:29,640
They're building hypospectral 
satellites. 

2215
01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:31,360
They can, sorry. 
And if they're a competitor with

2216
01:49:31,360 --> 01:49:32,560
algae colors? 
Oh no, they're not. 

2217
01:49:32,680 --> 01:49:35,120
Yeah, they might use Adnicols, 
OK to go launch because they 

2218
01:49:35,120 --> 01:49:37,240
don't do the launch stuff, they 
do the satellite and payload 

2219
01:49:37,240 --> 01:49:39,040
stuff. 
But yeah, very cutting edge. 

2220
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:42,080
And we were the first 
institutional investors in any 

2221
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:46,440
space company 4-5 years ago in 
2019 and now we, I think we have

2222
01:49:46,440 --> 01:49:47,880
hundreds of companies building 
space. 

2223
01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:49,680
And again, if you think about. 
Hundreds of companies building. 

2224
01:49:49,680 --> 01:49:53,080
Hundreds of companies building 
in space across launch vehicles,

2225
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:55,520
reusable launch vehicles. 
There's a company called 

2226
01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:58,320
Ethereal X that tells the 
Ukraine Mall incredible stuff. 

2227
01:49:58,640 --> 01:50:01,480
That is propulsion systems. 
There's Drown Station, that is 

2228
01:50:01,480 --> 01:50:04,120
telematics. 
There's satellite building. 

2229
01:50:04,120 --> 01:50:06,680
So this is a place that you this
is sector U investor fair been 

2230
01:50:06,680 --> 01:50:09,680
there or this road whereas. 
Yeah, we are very much we are 

2231
01:50:09,680 --> 01:50:11,280
really. 
I don't think I can rattle off 

2232
01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:12,480
all of those different 
subsections. 

2233
01:50:12,480 --> 01:50:14,880
Like you just said, yes, yeah. 
So we yeah, be able to pretty 

2234
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:17,440
deep and sophisticated thesis 
around space tag because these 

2235
01:50:17,440 --> 01:50:20,040
Rd. talent base is so strong. 
And then the young entrepreneurs

2236
01:50:20,040 --> 01:50:22,760
coming out of the world can join
hands. 

2237
01:50:22,760 --> 01:50:25,160
And then you know, you know how 
much any government base this 

2238
01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:28,880
road is peanuts. 
So you know, once they once 

2239
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:30,680
they've done their duty, they've
learned their lessons, they 

2240
01:50:30,680 --> 01:50:32,840
learn their skills. 
They they are very happy to go 

2241
01:50:32,840 --> 01:50:34,720
work for a private company now. 
Interesting. 

2242
01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:37,400
And yes, you know, they throw as
institution is also very 

2243
01:50:37,400 --> 01:50:39,520
supportive. 
They are offering labs for free 

2244
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:43,040
to test out, do turbo testing, 
vibration testing, space 

2245
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:46,040
weakness testing for satellites 
and rocket is quite amazing to 

2246
01:50:46,040 --> 01:50:48,160
see. 
So, OK, that's interesting. 

2247
01:50:49,120 --> 01:50:52,560
I learned something and and I 
knew ISRO was doing well and and

2248
01:50:52,560 --> 01:50:55,200
and when I know that hundreds of
companies that's really, really 

2249
01:50:55,200 --> 01:50:58,520
cool drones. 
Drones. 

2250
01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:00,760
Yeah. 
It's a very interesting space 

2251
01:51:00,920 --> 01:51:04,040
the company should check out. 
It's called airbound.com. 

2252
01:51:04,400 --> 01:51:08,840
They're building V tall blended 
Bing body. 

2253
01:51:09,200 --> 01:51:11,280
So it's a single, single blended
body. 

2254
01:51:11,280 --> 01:51:14,680
There's no moving parts and it 
takes V tall, It takes off 

2255
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:18,360
vertically and then 
gyroscopically navigate itself 

2256
01:51:18,360 --> 01:51:22,320
to a horizontal light path with 
bings and it can cover about 6 

2257
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:26,080
to 70 kilometers. 
This is a company, the investor 

2258
01:51:26,080 --> 01:51:29,760
and the preceded this raise from
from a bunch of investors in the

2259
01:51:29,800 --> 01:51:33,840
US large seed round. 
They're doing the I think door 

2260
01:51:33,840 --> 01:51:37,160
is an interesting space in India
because you know when traffic is

2261
01:51:37,160 --> 01:51:41,200
just such a pain in the ass in 
India, you if you really want to

2262
01:51:42,000 --> 01:51:45,320
offer things of different 
varieties and quick commerce 

2263
01:51:45,320 --> 01:51:51,600
space, you have to take the 
aerial route, the the the road 

2264
01:51:51,600 --> 01:51:53,320
routes. 
That is too slow and too 

2265
01:51:53,440 --> 01:51:58,720
expensive and regulation has 
been, you know, generally quite 

2266
01:51:58,720 --> 01:52:01,760
positive in India. 
What doesn't exist yet is a 

2267
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:05,880
technology that can scalably, 
reliably go get anywhere things 

2268
01:52:05,880 --> 01:52:08,560
that are not 500 grams. 
You know, you got to get to 3 to

2269
01:52:08,560 --> 01:52:13,400
5 KGS for you to cover forty 
5060% of the overall volume of 

2270
01:52:13,400 --> 01:52:15,200
deliveries you want to do 
presumes. 

2271
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:20,240
So 4050% of consumer deliveries 
are some three KGS. 

2272
01:52:20,480 --> 01:52:24,120
So this company right now is 
building a drone, one of the 

2273
01:52:24,120 --> 01:52:28,720
most advanced roles in the world
that can that has an LED ratio 

2274
01:52:29,280 --> 01:52:31,760
almost matching the best 
aircrafts in the world. 

2275
01:52:32,040 --> 01:52:34,680
And what he wants to do is to 
just build the best aircraft in 

2276
01:52:34,680 --> 01:52:37,640
the world and just use it for 
grown deliveries. 

2277
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:41,040
So the goal is to build the best
aircraft, the best lift and rag 

2278
01:52:41,040 --> 01:52:44,000
ratio, the best. 
I mean like aircraft, aircraft 

2279
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:46,440
or drone or delivery drone, 
delivery aircraft. 

2280
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:49,880
He's building the best aircraft 
that is shaped like a drone, the

2281
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:52,040
size of a drone for delivery, 
for delivery. 

2282
01:52:52,040 --> 01:52:53,480
It's got a custom bill for a 
custom. 

2283
01:52:53,480 --> 01:52:56,600
Airport air rules, but the goal 
is to build the absolute best. 

2284
01:52:56,640 --> 01:52:59,440
And is drone delivery, I know 
drone delivery is actually live 

2285
01:52:59,440 --> 01:53:01,600
in China now, yeah. 
Is it there in India? 

2286
01:53:01,640 --> 01:53:06,040
Yeah, he's doing pilots in India
right now, but they with a large

2287
01:53:06,040 --> 01:53:08,080
healthcare system. 
What what is happening in India 

2288
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:09,800
that people don't know about 
tech wise? 

2289
01:53:10,120 --> 01:53:15,840
India is not coming to a point 
where people are building real 

2290
01:53:15,840 --> 01:53:19,400
world class 1st in the world 
technologies. 

2291
01:53:20,720 --> 01:53:22,600
The drone was an example of 
that. 

2292
01:53:23,480 --> 01:53:27,600
The satellite company and rocket
companies are examples of that. 

2293
01:53:28,520 --> 01:53:32,400
And there are many more coming 
semiconductor stuff that we're 

2294
01:53:32,400 --> 01:53:34,520
looking that seems like it's 
very cutting edge. 

2295
01:53:36,200 --> 01:53:40,880
So there is, there is absolutely
intent and there's capital 

2296
01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:46,040
available and there's talent 
that we believe is going to land

2297
01:53:46,040 --> 01:53:49,320
India in a place where we are 
didn't know what we're doing, 

2298
01:53:49,320 --> 01:53:53,360
didn't know what innovation that
if it works, it can actually 

2299
01:53:53,360 --> 01:53:57,760
really reshape industries. 
That wasn't true 5-10 years ago.

2300
01:53:58,640 --> 01:54:05,320
And I would argue we still are a
minuscule, minuscule percentage 

2301
01:54:05,320 --> 01:54:07,760
of what I think the contribution
to global ID is. 

2302
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:10,000
That needs to change. 
And I would love for that to 

2303
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:13,080
accelerate and I'm trying to do 
some things to make that much 

2304
01:54:13,080 --> 01:54:15,680
faster. 
But there are small pockets or 

2305
01:54:15,680 --> 01:54:17,760
fewer pockets. 
So they are very deep pockets of

2306
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:20,040
innovation that are absolutely 
mandatory. 

2307
01:54:20,880 --> 01:54:23,760
But this company that we just 
talked about, you're coming with

2308
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:27,800
people that are that are leaders
and you know, senior developers 

2309
01:54:27,800 --> 01:54:32,680
at Tesla, at SpaceX, Google's 
wing, which is let's try to 

2310
01:54:32,680 --> 01:54:36,680
build exactly this 10 years ago 
and equipment annual. 

2311
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:39,880
And it was drone team leaders 
with us in this one at, you 

2312
01:54:39,880 --> 01:54:43,200
know, a bunch of so this this, 
this stuff is really cutting 

2313
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:45,760
edge. 
So I think there are more and 

2314
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:48,600
more pockets of that with the 
young first time founders. 

2315
01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:52,200
This kid is in 19 now. 
When we invested, he was 17. 

2316
01:54:52,520 --> 01:54:54,800
There are more people like that 
coming out of the woodwork. 

2317
01:54:54,800 --> 01:54:59,440
I think there's quite people 
don't know this and I would love

2318
01:54:59,440 --> 01:55:04,360
for that volume of people to be 
much more and back them more and

2319
01:55:04,360 --> 01:55:06,640
I would love for more people to 
know that there is stuff like 

2320
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:09,280
this coming out of India. 
You're not a software 

2321
01:55:09,280 --> 01:55:11,920
automation. 
We have a back office anymore. 

2322
01:55:11,920 --> 01:55:14,680
We're not just take consumer 
masks, consumer Internet and 

2323
01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:18,120
e-commerce country get all of 
that and that's also deepening 

2324
01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:19,800
and broadening, but we're also 
this now. 

2325
01:55:20,200 --> 01:55:21,560
That's really awesome. 
I think. 

2326
01:55:22,160 --> 01:55:26,120
I don't think people again, I 
think it's still underpriced. 

2327
01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:29,960
I think we that that story like 
this kind of stuff is awesome. 

2328
01:55:29,960 --> 01:55:31,720
This is that's like world class,
right? 

2329
01:55:32,160 --> 01:55:34,640
And I think the world class 
stuff, people kind of knew 

2330
01:55:34,640 --> 01:55:37,240
Indians individually were doing 
that kind of stuff, you know, 

2331
01:55:37,640 --> 01:55:40,920
but I don't think they realize 
how much of A for lack of a 

2332
01:55:40,920 --> 01:55:44,040
term, not even bench isn't even 
the right term, how much in 

2333
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:47,040
reserve there was for an idea. 
Yeah, OK, awesome. 

2334
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:48,640
Maybe with that by me? 
Absolutely. 

2335
01:55:49,400 --> 01:55:49,800
Great. 
Cool. 

2336
01:55:49,960 --> 01:55:50,800
Thank you, Bob. 
Yeah.