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Yeah, welcome to the Net Receive
podcast. 

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I'm glad to have you here. 
Thank you for having me. 

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It's great honour to be here and
excited about our conversation. 

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Awesome. 
And for those people who don't 

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know, just give me, give the 
quick background. 

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Anamoca, you're a large 
investor, you're gaming, you do 

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all kinds of stuff. 
Give me the give me yat and yat.

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Yeah, I'm, I guess the quick 
snapshot is Anamoca today is 

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probably one of the biggest 
investors in web three 

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particularly you could call it 
in the altcoin segment of think 

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of. 
So of course we have a lot of 

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Bitcoin as well. 
We have over 600 portfolio 

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companies to date. 
We started with gaming. 

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That's what we're known for, but
we're in AI and DPN and all 

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sorts of things that L1L twos as
well very much believe in this 

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construct of the shared network 
effect. 

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This is why we sort of invest so
broadly in space, but we're 

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maybe a little different is that
we're not a fund, so we invest 

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out our own balance sheet. 
Interesting. 

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OK, so. 
Everything is basically out of 

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our own balance sheet and. 
What did you start as? 

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Tell you what, what what what? 
Where did the balance sheet come

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from? 
Like Google, for example. 

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Google funds, Google ventures 
out. 

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Of the gaming company Game 
Company. 

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We still a game. 
Company, we drive revenue from 

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that and then we were once a 
small listed company in 

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Australia and you raised capital
for some of our first 

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acquisitions like the Sandbox 
for instance, or investments 

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instead of Axi Infinity. 
And that took off a lot back in 

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the 2122 sort of I guess NFT, 
Ethereum peak days, which 

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hopefully will come soon again, 
at least on the Ethereum side. 

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And we obviously monetize that, 
continue to invest, you know, 

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and, and with the ecosystem and 
we believe in that. 

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I think the other thing though, 
is that we are now also 

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operating in the space. 
So beyond being an investor 

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because of a balance sheet, we 
also create yield from the 

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assets we're basically trading 
and we're also helping companies

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launch their tokens, doing an 
advisory type business. 

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So it's expanded a lot more from
that. 

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And we're like almost 1000 
people worldwide. 

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So we're not a small operation 
in the crypto context. 

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Last year, we had over $300 
million of revenue with about 

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$95 million EBITDA operating 
wise and we're sitting on 

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billions of dollars of mostly 
Altcon assets and of course the 

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healthy chunk of Bitcoin. 
Very, very, very impressive. 

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So thank you. 
You know, one thing that 

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actually I think makes it even 
more impressive is gaming has 

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always seemed to me to be very 
hard. 

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And here's my understanding as 
to why. 

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First is it's like gaming is 
creative. 

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And so it's kind of like writing
a hit novel or like making a hit

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movie. 
You, you know, yeah, I'd love to

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order a hit movie on on Command,
but it's not that easy to do 

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right. 
And especially even a hit movie 

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that stands the test of time is 
even harder to do. 

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So you might get a spike for a 
game and then people get tired 

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of it and it goes away #1 and 
then #2 it's also very 

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technically hard because people 
might have patience with a SAS 

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interface and so and so forth. 
But everything needs to be a, a,

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a for like an, a, a, a game. 
And so, you know, this is 

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something that one of my friends
has talked about, which is the 

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Silicon Valley or the tech way 
of building user interfaces, 

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which is, you know, HTML, 
JavaScript, CSS, which has long 

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page load times and so and so 
forth. 

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Versus the open GL or the, you 
know, the basically the 3D 

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graphics way. 
You know, whether it's Unity or 

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it's Unreal, like that way of 
building interfaces is vastly 

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more responsive. 
It's more rich as an interface. 

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And in theory, there's this 
enormous gap between how we 

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build business interfaces and 
this alien technology that's out

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there, right. 
And one company that's actually 

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somewhat used that or not 
somewhat did Figma where they 

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did web GL in the browser. 
And that was a big part of how 

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they were able to do what they 
were able to do. 

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It's also why it takes such a 
long time to load Figma 

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sometimes, because they're 
basically loading a second kind 

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of thing within the browser and 
uses hardware acceleration and 

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so on. 
So Figma shows what is possible 

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maybe with like gaming. 
And now of course, I'm talking 

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about AAA desktop games as a 
sync for mobile games, but 

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mobile games still have the 
mechanical issues, creative 

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issues that I mentioned. 
And now you get to AAA gaming in

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mobile as well, right? 
Yes, that's right. 

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But I think maybe just to sort 
of encapsulate, as we were 

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obviously still are, sort of, 
you know, building games. 

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One of the big misunderstandings
around games is that you have to

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have super high quality. 
It's kind of like saying, hey, a

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good movie has special effects. 
It does, but not necessarily 

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right. 
A good game is actually based on

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the content. 
And frankly, one of the big, I 

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guess misnomers is that they 
treat it like a movie. 

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They say you watch it as an 
experience or you like it's 

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episodic. 
And I think it has to do a lot 

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with the history of gaming, you 
know, which was very episodic in

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nature. 
But you know, there's this 

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thing. 
In the casual gaming, kind of. 

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Thing casual gaming or even even
storytelling based games or 

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because you couldn't do 
multiplayer gaming. 

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No, I mean, it's like you're 
saying it's an alternative to 

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the episodic storytelling games.
With the casual games, you just 

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pick up and just start. 
Yes, yes, exactly. 

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But what? 
But what makes gaming so 

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different from something like 
hit driven in the classic 

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construct is that most of the 
people play games for social 

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reasons, right? 
As opposed to when you watch a 

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movie, you watch the movie one 
time and maybe there's a social 

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thing, you go to the cinema 
together, but the social 

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interaction isn't as bound In 
gaming. 

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We have this thing called 
Bartles taxonomy where we 

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basically divide sort of gamers.
And it's a it's a crude form, 

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but it's one that we generally 
follow into the four categories,

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right? 
The first category is killers, 

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right? 
It's like 1%. 

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These are the these are the 
psychopaths basically just play 

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games because they're just like 
to off people inside a game, 

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right? 
OK, like, you know, like in the 

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first person shooter, just enjoy
that. 

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And then you have the achievers 
and the adventurers, right? 

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And cheers and adventures are 
actually the ones who are 

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playing because they like to 
level up. 

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Cheers, Want to collect all the 
badges? 

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The adventures? 
Want to see the whole game 

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experience? 
It's for the love of of the. 

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Experience and of course, carry 
the socializers. 

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Basically social, right? 
Yeah. 

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And what? 
Do you call? 

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What do you call? 
Them, we just called them the 

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people there, social, social 
socializers, sure. 

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And they are 80% right now. 
You the perfect example, the the

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exemplified example of this is 
Roblox. 

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When you ask any of the kids or 
anyone who plays Roblox, do they

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play Roblox because it's great 
adventure, because you can kill 

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other people or something or 
it's for leveling up. 

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They'll tell you it's because 
their friends are playing it. 

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It's funny, The thing is like as
a kid, I definitely played a lot

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of games and I stopped playing 
games because you an investment 

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into Final Fantasy umpteen or 
what have you. 

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I don't know what number they're
on 16 or something like that. 

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Whenever. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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From probably 30 at this point, 
yeah. 

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It's like, it's like a solid 80 
hours of like waking time, 

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right? 
A single player game. 

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That's right, that's right, 
that's right. 

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But in the multiplayer games, 
you know, Goldeneye or, you 

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know, obviously I'm dating 
myself for this late 90s or, you

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know, Quake, whatever. 
I started with Paul, so yeah. 

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, sure, 
sure. 

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So, so the thing about those is,
you know, it was fun, but I 

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think one thing I found is 
there's so many games now that 

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if you Scroll down Steam or 
something like that, they they 

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kind of all blend into each 
other or what have you, right. 

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Like there, there was less, you 
know, back in the 80s. 

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I don't have to be all 
nostalgia, but in the 80s or 90s

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it was harder to get a game out,
so there was more editorial 

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control over it. 
That's. 

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Also the cost of and the. 
Cost was hard, right? 

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So you had genuine originals 
like Zelda, Metroid at the time,

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Final Fantasy, Dragon Warrior, 
Castlevania, right? 

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And those were all like, you 
know, those are still flagship 

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titles today or what have you, 
right, Even though it took like 

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10 or 20 years to reboot them or
whatever, right. 

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But I think just the sheer crush
of titles that are out there, 

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that's why I'm very impressed 
with how you managed to build a 

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business out of it and A and a 
enduring business. 

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I mean, obviously you've gotten 
into other areas in web and 

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crypto, but like, you know, for 
example, is Angry Birds still 

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doing well? 
Well, no, but that's because a 

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Rovio sold itself. 
OK, build a franchise. 

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But it's like hard to make a 
repeatable. 

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It's like, oh, I remember that 
game from like five years ago or

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10 years ago or. 
Something so I think there's a 

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lot of parallels to when you 
think about the roots of crypto 

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and gaming because gaming 
audience is what they do 

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ultimately, they build a brand 
and become a media company. 

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And when you think about the 
foundational level of a lot of 

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starting crypto, including even 
Bitcoin at start, it's tribal of

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a kind of belief system for us. 
I see. 

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So let me see if I get your 
point. 

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You're saying retention in a 
game is about retention of the 

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social network underpinning the 
game, correct? 

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Yeah. 
OK, Zach is a good thesis. 

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And but then what happens is, is
that you start off by creating a

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following and a community. 
And, you know, with Final 

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Fantasy, for instance, you've 
got this whole generation of 

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people who grew up with Final 
Fantasy. 

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Yeah. 
And they'll keep playing and 

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playing and playing and playing 
it. 

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Right. 
It's the franchise value. 

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See, the same in the movie 
industry. 

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Yeah. 
But you know, they haven't yet 

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created. 
And that's more, I think, an 

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issue related to Square Enix 
than the Final Fantasy community

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in and of itself. 
To create a social network out 

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of it instead. 
They do have Farvesi online, I 

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think there's. 
Reasons, yeah, but that that 

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hasn't done that hasn't done 
good as well. 

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And and frankly the social 
network of these gaming 

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communities have been mostly Co 
opted in the platform such as 

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Steam. 
So Steam. 

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Steam That's right, because 
you're right. 

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Discord right they're the ones 
who captured it and then they 

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became the agents of 
distribution for these games you

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know it's. 
Interesting actually, as you 

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mentioned that such an obvious 
point that for a reason that's 

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it's kind of like Uber 
commoditizing the cars, right. 

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Like, you know, car companies 
spent so much energy in 

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differentiating a Ford from a 
you know, this from a that and 

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then the last time you took an 
Uber or Grab or whatever, do you

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remember the make of car? 
No, no, right. 

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So that brand, what you remember
is you took an Uber or grab or 

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something. 
Even then, you may not remember 

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00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,080
Uber or Scrab, but you remember 
right That's. 

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What TikTok is doing for 
creators, unfortunately. 

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00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,360
Too Yes, that's right. 
So you remember TikTok, but the 

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creator themselves just like 
channel flipping or what 

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happened, right? 
That's right. 

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And it's interesting because 
that's the fix. 

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You always kind of re 
centralized around something 

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because you can't remember 
everything. 

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So the fixed point is the 
TikTok, the Uber, the Steam as 

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opposed to the content, the car 
or the the the gaming creator, 

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right? 
And it's where your prime 

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identity lies, Yeah. 
So if your ranking is on Steam, 

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then you care about that ranking
over time, as opposed to the 

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ranking is only in one game. 
It may not transfer to another 

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game, and therefore it's not as 
valuable unless you have a 

228
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,120
following over generations and 
it's embedded over time. 

229
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,680
So Final Fantasy has the benefit
of being a franchise that's been

230
00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:03,200
there since we were kids, right?
Right. 

231
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,920
And so that's something embedded
in US for decades. 

232
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,880
But if you're a new franchise, 
you really have to understand 

233
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,720
how to utilize the power of 
these social networks and how to

234
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,240
basically sort of build 
community constructs from it, 

235
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,000
which bathing it is no different
than launching a token. 

236
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:17,680
Right. 
So it took me a long time to 

237
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,560
understand this quantitatively, 
but right, essentially my my 

238
00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:25,120
view is because people would 
speak at an abstract level about

239
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,720
brand, for example, right? 
And eventually I was able to 

240
00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:34,880
articulate a brand is the 
collection of words and images 

241
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,960
that are evoked when someone 
says that phrase. 

242
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,280
And feelings. 
And feelings. 

243
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:40,920
Great. 
OK. 

244
00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,680
So again, very left brain. 
Yeah, exactly. 

245
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:44,640
You're right. 
Feelings. 

246
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:45,320
You're right. 
Feelings. 

247
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,600
You want to know exactly right. 
Yeah. 

248
00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,240
So that's right. 
We're not all computational, 

249
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,040
despite what some people might 
think I believe. 

250
00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:51,840
Exactly. 
That's right. 

251
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,080
So actually with LMS, you can 
actually make that very clear 

252
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,040
today where you could literally 
type in a string, you know, 

253
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,920
Coke, Pepsi, you know, something
like that, right. 

254
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,400
And then you can obviously you 
can pull up sentiment analysis 

255
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,800
over time. 
So you can also pull up, give me

256
00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,320
every word, phrase, image, 
etcetera, etcetera, that is 

257
00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,920
associated with this person, 
place, thing, what have you. 

258
00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,680
And then you know, score them 
for positive or negative 

259
00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:21,280
sentiment, right? 
And you can actually realize 

260
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:25,320
that actually brand is just 
about the media you consume. 

261
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,800
And it's almost like the atomic 
linkages to other words and 

262
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,440
images that surround it and 
feelings and so on and so forth,

263
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,280
right? 
And so therefore, like it's 

264
00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,200
interesting to think about like 
with Disney or Final Fantasy or 

265
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,920
something like that, that has 
built brand value over decades. 

266
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,280
What is different about that, 
right? 

267
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,800
What is, well, first is they 
were able to build it over a 

268
00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:49,240
period where there was a less 
competitive media environment. 

269
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,960
That's one thing. 
But it is possible certainly to 

270
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,080
build brands today like, you 
know, you can in some ways build

271
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,280
a brand fashion ever before, 
Like Brian Johnson has built a 

272
00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,440
brand very quickly, right? 
Like don't die and so on. 

273
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,400
Like live forever. 
YouTube obviously came up like 

274
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,640
this. 
TikTok came up like that. 

275
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,880
But if you look at Vincent on 
YouTube, is it YouTube or is it 

276
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,120
the content that you experience 
on YouTube that actually gave 

277
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:13,680
you that impression, right? 
You're not well. 

278
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,200
What I mean is youtube.com 
right? 

279
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,880
tiktok.com. 
Snapchat yeah, it's not, it's 

280
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,520
not easy to build these giant 
multinational, you know, 

281
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,240
corporations, these these tech 
platforms. 

282
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,200
But it's possible to do so, 
right? 

283
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,600
And in some ways, it's actually,
I think it's easier to do so 

284
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,840
than to retain an old brand. 
Right? 

285
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,160
Like one of the things that's 
been interesting to me is seeing

286
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,840
something like the World 
Economic Forum radically decline

287
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,000
in prestige. 
Sure, right. 

288
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:46,000
It went from something that in 
the 90s or the 2000s, I was 

289
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,880
always spoken of with a positive
connotation, like an elite 

290
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,640
connotation in Time magazine or 
something like that, to 

291
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,200
something where Time and 
Newsweek themselves fell off. 

292
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,480
When's the last time we've 
readtime.com, Right? 

293
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:02,680
Like long time ago, right? 
And and then the the things that

294
00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:05,600
they would praise are now what 
was interesting to me is the 

295
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,040
World Economic Forum had its 
brand attacked by not elite 

296
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,960
media, not prestige media, but 
it's an enormous mass like 

297
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,760
Groundswell, right? 
But now it's something that it 

298
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:16,040
worked in. 
Go ahead. 

299
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,720
But it's also related to the 
distrust in institutions, which 

300
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,080
is basically happened over time,
right? 

301
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,040
That's right. 
But so because of that, I think 

302
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,840
it's interesting because things 
like Final Fantasy or Zelda are 

303
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,240
kind of outside of that 
distrusted institutions. 

304
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,480
Those are games. 
They're like nostalgic products 

305
00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:33,440
in some ways. 
Their brand values going up even

306
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,640
as the institutions that existed
then go down. 

307
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,560
So I think the talking about 
topic of brand, the way we think

308
00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:41,720
about brand and the power of 
brands, you know, in the 

309
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,640
commercial construct, you might 
call it goodwill, right is you 

310
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,600
know, as humans, we are guided 
by emotions and feelings we feel

311
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,040
and that actually that network 
effect ultimately say something 

312
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,360
I love. 
Yeah, is. 

313
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,360
The most powerful thing? 
Right. 

314
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,680
So when you love and have 
passion for something, whether 

315
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:04,000
it's a green movement, whether 
it's a cosmetic, whether it's 

316
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:10,080
whatever, so to build a brand is
the feeling that it evokes in 

317
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,360
you. 
And maybe an example I can put 

318
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,320
is like, you know, do you 
remember, like what's your 

319
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,680
favorite childhood food, 
something that you remember? 

320
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:20,120
I don't know. 
Like what's a good question? 

321
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,160
I don't. 
Like, like, you know, like, is 

322
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:23,440
it some pudding? 
Is it some? 

323
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:24,520
Pineapple. 
Pineapple. 

324
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,200
OK, so when you eat a pineapple 
today, does it give you that 

325
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,000
feeling, that emotion, that 
every day of the child? 

326
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,680
Yeah. 
Well, I mean sense and smells 

327
00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,280
and tastes, yes. 
There's something else that's 

328
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,800
interesting about what you're 
saying there, because that's 

329
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,560
also the stuff that you can't 
put online yet. 

330
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,880
Yes, right. 
And it's what makes us human as 

331
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,200
well, and it's our part of our 
psyche in psychology. 

332
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,880
Right. 
So sights and sounds you can put

333
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,360
online, right? 
So the eyes and the ears, right 

334
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,000
touch, you know, you've got the 
haptic stuff. 

335
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,360
It's like kind of kind of get, 
you know, it's slow to get 

336
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,240
there. 
But you know, Apple just 

337
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,360
released that movie. 
That's like a rumble movie. 

338
00:14:58,360 --> 00:14:59,720
You know what I'm talking? 
About yes, yes, yes, yeah. 

339
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,080
And what it is is it's it is 
interesting technically because 

340
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,920
it's a movie about like cars, 
you know, Brad Pitt cars driving

341
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,120
around, whatever. 
And it's, you're supposed to 

342
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,840
hold it and then your thing 
rumbles when the car moves or 

343
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,600
something. 
And I was like, oh, it's a 

344
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,760
gimmick, right? 
But it's actually kind of 

345
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,480
interesting because it's like a 
third track. 

346
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,120
You know, when you're editing a 
video, right? 

347
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,280
You've got the video track, 
you've got the audio track, and 

348
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:24,680
you've got the haptics track, 
right? 

349
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,880
And the haptics track starts off
as this really kind of kind of 

350
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,160
dumb thing, which is like the 
magnitude of the rumble strip, 

351
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,200
right? 
But eventually it could be like 

352
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,120
your omnidirectional treadmill 
or your massage chair or 

353
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:36,840
something like that that's 
actually doing more or maybe 

354
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,480
your neural link or whatever, 
eventually, right? 

355
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,480
But the neural link is hard 
because sending signals in as 

356
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,600
hard and making it rumble, I 
don't know. 

357
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,520
But coming to your point, the 
sights and smells, because 

358
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,280
they're hard to do online are an
interesting thing to compliment 

359
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:53,800
the online. 
This is why maybe some of the 

360
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,360
French companies may do well, 
like the perfume companies, 

361
00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,880
right? 
Like what is a compliment to the

362
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:01,240
digital is something I think a 
lot about. 

363
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:01,760
Go ahead. 
Yeah. 

364
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,000
So I would say when you think 
about one way to think about it,

365
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,240
I don't know how familiar you 
are thinking about sort of, you 

366
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,560
know, Jung's archetypes. 
Right. 

367
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And the reason why people talk 

368
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,800
about archetypes this way is and
why those always used in 

369
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,720
storytelling. 
Jung Jung. 

370
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,320
Right, Yeah, Jung. 
Yeah, right. 

371
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,680
Is because whether it's a hero 
archetype or whether it's a 

372
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,080
savior archetype, whatever that 
type is, it's a story that is so

373
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,840
embedded in US and it's things 
we brought up as from, you know,

374
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,040
kids stories to whatever 
culturally that when you retell 

375
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,720
the that arc of story, it works,
right, yes. 

376
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,880
And so we keep rebuilding these 
sort of stories in real life. 

377
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,680
We make them into these heroes 
sometimes as well because it's 

378
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,040
what we're familiar with. 
And we see this in some of these

379
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,640
sort of arches, whether it's a 
villain arch or whatever arc. 

380
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,280
And I would say that's again, 
the feelings that are invoking 

381
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,040
us and they're deeply embedded 
within us. 

382
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,600
And so when you build a brand, 
it's about how we create that 

383
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:57,440
feeling. 
So when you look at, for 

384
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,040
instance, something like a like,
you know, like a, you know what,

385
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,840
what, what do you think of Nike 
as a brand? 

386
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,480
Well, then they say, you know, 
just do it right? 

387
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:07,000
Well, just do it is like, what 
the hell are you saying? 

388
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,280
Just do it right? 
But it's a feeling of that you 

389
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,359
can do it and that you can 
achieve it, right. 

390
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,319
And when they show a successful 
athlete running with the shoes, 

391
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,640
it's not to say that I will 
actually physically run better. 

392
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,760
It's the feeling of running 
faster even if you're not 

393
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:22,720
running faster at all. 
Right. 

394
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,400
Like, what's really the utility 
difference between an Adidas 

395
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,880
shoe, a Nike shoe or an on shoe 
or whatever shoe that's out 

396
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,040
there? 
Frankly, minimal for most of us.

397
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,240
Yeah. 
And yet we choose it because of 

398
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,720
how it makes us feel. 
And that's the power of brand. 

399
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,640
So I think there's there's 
something to that absolutely. 

400
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,360
Of course, you know, another 
thing, there's a meta rational 

401
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:43,920
thing where why does somebody 
buy the product which is 

402
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,760
advertised, right. 
Well, in part, if they can 

403
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,400
afford the money to advertise, 
they probably have higher 

404
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,920
production values and attention 
to detail than the one that 

405
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,880
doesn't. 
It's almost like a, you know, 

406
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,600
it's like a correlate of 
argument which says if they can 

407
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,160
pull off this Polish ad, of 
course there's a much more 

408
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,640
rational way of explaining it 
than, you know, I get I'm left 

409
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:10,080
framing it or whatever. 
Yeah, so, but if they have the 

410
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,640
attention to detail to have a 
good ad that gets your 

411
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,920
attention, then they probably 
have the attention to detail on 

412
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,600
the physical product itself. 
Now, that's not always true. 

413
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:19,880
In fact, there's a lot of stuff 
now it. 

414
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,360
Also depends on what you value, 
right? 

415
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,240
Right. 
So I grew up. 

416
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,840
It's interesting cuz I grew up 
in Austria in the 70s, right as 

417
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:30,160
a child and we never spoke about
money because it's a very 

418
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,360
European thing, Yes. 
And in fact, if you talk about 

419
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:34,720
money, you're like weird, right?
And in contrast to something 

420
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,200
like Dubai or Hong Kong or even 
Singapore, you know, you could 

421
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,320
sit at a dinner table and you 
talk about real estate, you talk

422
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,120
about the stock market, so. 
What are they talking about? 

423
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,160
In Europe? 
They talk about food and and 

424
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,080
philosophy. 
Culture, not necessarily just 

425
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,960
philosophy, just things that's 
happening in news. 

426
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,000
Maybe a little conspiracy 
theories these days, who knows? 

427
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,400
But the point is that they don't
talk about money because it's 

428
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,200
not a concert that you share in.
And as a result, it's not valued

429
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,760
as much because you're not 
measured in that, in that. 

430
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,320
Ballpark, it's sort of like an 
academia where in academia, I 

431
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,480
just think back to that culture.
We talked about papers and we 

432
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,120
talked about graphs and charts 
and what have you and. 

433
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,880
Findings, Knowledge, Research. 
Finding sellers research. 

434
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,240
These are things that aren't 
traditionally looked at in a 

435
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,360
sense of capital, although they 
are capital too. 

436
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,040
Yeah, different forms of 
capital, but you they couldn't 

437
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,760
measure it in the same way that 
you measure money. 

438
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,080
And so I think what money did 
was it created this way in which

439
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,360
we create a quantitative figure 
to your status, right? 

440
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:31,600
So hey, you're a millionaire 
that gives you a certain status,

441
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,280
right? 
And that is has more meaning in 

442
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,240
a place say like Hong Kong, for 
instance, or in the US than 

443
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,120
might have in in Europe. 
And as a result, you have 

444
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:41,240
different people attached to 
stuff. 

445
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,040
And you'll see that that people 
are much more thinking about the

446
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,520
value of the mission of a brand 
in some countries versus in 

447
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,000
others where they might just 
simply say, well, is it cheaper,

448
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,480
right? 
Or is it better versus this is 

449
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,280
what they're doing for the 
environment and therefore I'll 

450
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,600
buy that, right? 
And so there is this sort of 

451
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:02,720
this triple bottom line effect 
that happens depending on your 

452
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,280
societal sort of circumstance. 
You saw this in China, for 

453
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,320
instance, where in China, China 
was not a good luxury market in 

454
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,840
the beginning cuz everyone was 
just basically surviving, right?

455
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,880
Yeah, yeah. 
And then actually when the 

456
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,520
market improved and the middle 
class was rising and there was 

457
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,920
sort of excess money. 
Suddenly everyone started buying

458
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,960
luxury goods, but it wasn't just
because of branded advertised 

459
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,440
marketing. 
It was a symbol show. 

460
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:22,160
They made it. 
Exactly. 

461
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:23,160
It's that symbol show they made 
it. 

462
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,600
It was a form of projecting, a 
form of of let's say new found 

463
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,240
power and I guess way of feeling
better about themselves. 

464
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:32,240
And then it was became became 
self reinforcing. 

465
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:33,760
Right. 
Yeah, that's right. 

466
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,360
I think what's interesting is, 
you know, when you and I were 

467
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,960
growing up, basically there was 
no, I'm not sure about you, but 

468
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,920
it certainly there was. 
You might have seen a 

469
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,800
businessman or something like 
that on TV in the 80s or the 

470
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:50,160
90s, but it was not like thought
of as a path that you could. 

471
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,240
There's no obvious kind of route
like, you know, write some code,

472
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,880
start a company, get venture. 
Whatever that may be. 

473
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,040
Could be code, could be farms, 
could be whatever. 

474
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,960
Yeah, I mean, we certainly our 
parents generation came from a 

475
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,000
time of true scarcity. 
Good. 

476
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,080
So we had to worry about 
literary food on this table. 

477
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,240
Yes, that's right. 
You know, like how how to do 

478
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,800
that. 
This is not something we care 

479
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,040
about today. 
And even in the so-called, let's

480
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,000
call it lesser sort of once 
we're not as well off the notion

481
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,200
that you can't put food on the 
table, for most of them, it's 

482
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,240
just simply not true anymore. 
Yeah. 

483
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,400
I mean, this is the thing that 
people don't get how much the 

484
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:27,840
world has changed in 50 years. 
Yeah. 

485
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,640
And The thing is, I would argue 
it's changed a lot more in the 

486
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,840
last few decades than it did for
there was a degree of, you know,

487
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,240
yeah, yeah. 
There's a degree of freezing in 

488
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:47,120
amber that is now coming 
uncracked, right, very rapidly, 

489
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,320
like the speed of political 
change, technological change is 

490
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,600
accelerating now and it's going 
to probably accelerate, you 

491
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:54,480
know, for a while. 
And one way to think about that 

492
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,200
is to to be less trivial about 
it. 

493
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,800
There's many different kinds of 
exponentials or, you know, the 

494
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,600
ramp or playing obviously 
there's, there's crypto, there's

495
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,400
AI, there is actually biotech, 
which people aren't monitoring 

496
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,640
as much. 
That's like the shoe that hasn't

497
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,280
dropped like the ABC of AB, 
right? 

498
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,000
OK. 
I bet there's drones and it's a 

499
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,640
major one and more generally 
robotics and self driving 

500
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,720
humanoids. 
That's all real now, right? 

501
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,240
There's, you know, I think 
Jordan Peterson observed that 

502
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,600
just like Tinder alone is this 
enormous disruption to how 

503
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,640
humans have interacted. 
And it's just one of you may 

504
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,720
not, you know, you may not even 
think of that as like the number

505
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,840
one exponential, but it's like, 
you know, huge disruption to how

506
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,240
humans have interacted over over
time. 

507
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,640
There's that graph that shows 
like how people met their 

508
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,760
partners and like Internet just 
dominates everything, right? 

509
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,160
I. 
Remember it was back in back in 

510
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,840
the 90s when I started, I was 
meeting people virtually and in 

511
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,880
real life. 
Getting together was like a big 

512
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,120
deal. 
It was like, yes, Oh my 

513
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:52,560
goodness, like I don't know who 
you are. 

514
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,600
Let's meet in this restaurant 
and let's just hang out for the 

515
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,200
first time. 
And now it's like. 

516
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,520
Push a button, Yeah. 
And so I think sometimes when if

517
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,640
all the friction is being 
removed from something, then 

518
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,440
there's another layer where it 
gets recentralized and added or 

519
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:06,960
whatever, like we were talking 
about earlier, right? 

520
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,040
And so like the Internet is sort
of liquidated, liquefied, all 

521
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,360
kinds of previous, you know, one
of my views is nothing that 

522
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:18,320
wasn't built on the Internet 
will survive the Internet, 

523
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,960
right? 
Because what the Internet does 

524
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,560
is the Internet increases 
variance on everything. 

525
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,840
For example, you go from, you 
know, being a nine to five 

526
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:35,880
salary man to being a 
billionaire or, you know, like 

527
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,120
out of work by age or like 
increase the variance there, 

528
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:40,360
right? 
The Internet takes you from the 

529
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:46,080
30 minute sitcom to the 32nd 
clip or the, you know, 30 

530
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,480
episode podcast. 
The Internet takes you from 

531
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,520
like, you know, an article in a 
newspaper to 140 character tweet

532
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,160
or a giant PDF like Dropbox 
download whatever, right? 

533
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,920
So, and the reason it does so is
it takes everything that was the

534
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,600
mediator, the moderator, the 
middleman, right? 

535
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,600
And for good or for I'll, it 
just eliminates that because it 

536
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,800
allows people to connect 
peer-to-peer. 

537
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,920
It makes it more efficient. 
Well, more efficient, but it 

538
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,720
also removes all choke points, 
all centralization, all 

539
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,720
moderation. 
So for example, anybody can now 

540
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,880
yell at anybody and there's 
nobody in the middle to break 

541
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,800
that up, right? 
But anybody can now trade with 

542
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:26,960
anybody and there's no one in 
the middle to tax it, right? 

543
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,840
Anybody can now interact with 
anybody and then the border 

544
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,520
doesn't stop them for good or 
frail, right? 

545
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,000
And that means that essentially 
the entire world which had been 

546
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,440
bucketed into these countries, 
you know, like here's a bucket 

547
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,640
of Chinese people, here's a 
bucket of, you know, Germans, 

548
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,400
whatever, right? 
That after a lot of fighting and

549
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,760
being bucketed into these 
countries, suddenly everybody's 

550
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,200
teleported into the cloud. 
It's like you dropped, you can 

551
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,880
take your MOBA, your mass. 
You know, you have 8 billion 

552
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,720
people dropped into a massively 
online battle arena called, you 

553
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,280
know, the Internet, right? 
China actually has its own 

554
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,200
continent over here because 
they've got the great Firewall, 

555
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,240
right? 
So they've got their. 

556
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,600
People are still able to come in
and out basically, but yes. 

557
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,360
That's right. 
So basically they are they are 

558
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,360
the ones who have their own 
cloud continent over here. 

559
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,840
But the other 6 billion people 
on especially the Anglophone 

560
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,040
Internet are all like directly 
connected. 

561
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,960
And there's like a large, you 
know, mountain range that, but 

562
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,320
almost like the Himalayas that 
has, you know, China blocked 

563
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,600
off, right? 
And and then there's like you 

564
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,520
can move back and forth, but 
there it's like there's some 

565
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,880
passage there, right? 
And so if you think about this, 

566
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,320
the geography of the cloud is 
different than the geography of 

567
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,000
the land. 
And if you have rivers and 

568
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,920
oceans and mountain ranges that 
are sort of the natural 

569
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,960
boundaries over here, up here, 
there it's languages and 

570
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,000
networks and then firewalls, 
right? 

571
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,840
And so the issue is that 
basically when you have the 

572
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,120
English Internet, you've got 
Americans, Indians, Europeans, 

573
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,920
people from all over, and 
they're all packed into one 

574
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,920
place digitally. 
And there's just this absolute 

575
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,800
mealy and free for all because 
nobody knows who's in charge or 

576
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,040
who's in control. 
Or it's it people are in control

577
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,600
of the CEOs of the platforms, or
is it the government that can 

578
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,600
regulate them? 
Or is nobody in control because 

579
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,600
of cryptocurrency? 
That order is being worked out 

580
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,160
now, and I think we're on on the
end of it. 

581
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,680
By I mean 20 years, a long time,
but like 20-30 years from now I 

582
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,280
think digital borders and 
physical borders will coincide. 

583
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:21,880
I think it's kind of happened in
a. 

584
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,080
Way, kind of. 
Well, it's happened. 

585
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,680
I mean, China in a sense is the 
forerunner of this. 

586
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,120
But if you take a look at 
fences, basically Chinese 

587
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:32,840
overseas, right, basically look 
at population, it's larger than 

588
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,160
the population of France, right,
in terms of quantum and 

589
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:36,280
certainly Indians as well, 
right? 

590
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:40,240
They look at sort of the the 
expat communities. 

591
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,920
I mean there are like you go to 
Dubai, may as well be India. 

592
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:44,680
Right. 
Yeah, right. 

593
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,880
Exactly 80%, yeah, so. 
So you can see that kind of 

594
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,520
transporting out, but what's 
interesting is that they move 

595
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,960
and bring with them a specific 
culture that is sort of part of 

596
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,800
their national identity. 
Yeah, that doesn't disappear 

597
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,080
despite the fact that the global
Internet has brought everyone 

598
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,040
together. 
And it also allows people to 

599
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,040
connect with certain interests 
from those particular societies 

600
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,400
to combine them together. 
So I've what I see happening is 

601
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,200
if you wanna call it nationalism
or patriotism, there are pockets

602
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,520
of this type of patriotism where
I grew up in a time where you 

603
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,680
would describe a kid like me 
growing up in Austria as like a 

604
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,440
third culture kid, right? 
Yeah, right. 

605
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,520
Well, to me, this concept of 
third culture kid kind of is 

606
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,000
thrown out the air because 
everybody's that, everyone's 

607
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,560
that because we're. 
Everybody's Internet. 

608
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,440
Culture in a culture, we're all 
connected one way or the other. 

609
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,160
And so I could be a national of 
Austria or a national of 

610
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,040
America, but I could have 
affinity to someone in China. 

611
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,880
I could have affinity to Chinese
culture. 

612
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,600
You know, I could love Japanese 
anime and I could suddenly be 

613
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,920
maybe in some ways even more 
Japanese, you know, a Japanese 

614
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,400
person, right? 
And so that is the part I think 

615
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,880
that society is struggling with 
as well, because you have that 

616
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,880
incredible divergent and you 
have an incredible diversity 

617
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,320
within a construct that is hard 
to manage. 

618
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,320
And I think part of that is 
because we don't have the 

619
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,440
traditional power structures to 
hold it together. 

620
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,720
The traditional power structures
with education, centralization, 

621
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,400
your passport, your identity, 
your travel, right? 

622
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,760
You know, you, you maybe 
national anthem, whatever. 

623
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,120
These are ways in which we try 
to keep society cohesive. 

624
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,760
But because of what you 
described and also media at 

625
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,320
large, we've now fragmented that
open and now and actually that 

626
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,240
makes me more bullish on America
because if there's one society 

627
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,000
that has managed to be as oh 
really? 

628
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:24,920
Yes, I mean, I understand. 
You know, we talk. 

629
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,480
About sure, sure, sure. 
But about America as a nation. 

630
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,320
But when I compare to other 
nation states, China being the 

631
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,920
exception because it has more 
tighter control, is that very 

632
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,360
few countries can survive this 
type of mass diversity. 

633
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,440
And let's call it implosions and
creation and destruction of 

634
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,800
societies and cultures within as
America has, because it's done 

635
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,280
this for hundreds of years. 
It's kind of like it's it's 

636
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,960
Genesis and where it's a nation 
of immigrants, it's built in 

637
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,400
this foundation versus other 
places. 

638
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,160
So America's the only place 
where you can have this kind of 

639
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:00,800
creative destruction and which 
really upheaves an entire, you 

640
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:05,440
know, like like industry, which 
would completely be not allowed 

641
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,440
in Europe, would basically be 
defaulted in many, both places. 

642
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,280
And in many ways, China is 
responding what's happening to 

643
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:12,480
America. 
Like, for instance, we people 

644
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,960
talk about China as a head of 
AI, but Chinese being a head of 

645
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,800
AI is a response to America 
suddenly leading right in this 

646
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,200
area. 
Originally with, you know, with 

647
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,720
the when open AI, because 
remember, before open AI, it was

648
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,480
like China with surveillance 
state and everything has full 

649
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,320
control over everything. 
They've got all the data, 

650
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,080
they're going to lead in AI. 
Then America came boom with 

651
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,120
something that was destructive, 
highly, highly creative, but 

652
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,240
also highly destructive for 
many, many industries. 

653
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,120
And then China had to respond in
kind. 

654
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:38,560
Right. 
Yeah. 

655
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,120
So I, I feel like that's sort of
interesting to see. 

656
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,640
And I think America's probably 
the only place they can do that,

657
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,280
not counting small city states 
because they're smaller places. 

658
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,440
Like if you're a population of 
like 5 million, whatever. 

659
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,360
So let me let me let me somebody
disagree with you and let me 

660
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,560
explain why. 
Yeah, it's because I think talk 

661
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,560
about America is a unitary 
entity today. 

662
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,320
Like, for example, think about 
Korea. 

663
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,280
That's very explicit. 
It's on the map, we can see it. 

664
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,680
Does Korea exist? 
No, North Korea exists. 

665
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,520
And South Korea exists. 
But Korea doesn't exist, right? 

666
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,720
Like if you said what do Koreans
do, you get a very different 

667
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,680
answer for South Koreans and N 
Koreans, of course. 

668
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,880
And that historical vision 
didn't exist, you know, prior to

669
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,800
the, you know, 30th parallel, 37
parallel. 

670
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,400
Sure, right. 
But but now it does. 

671
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,520
And when I say Americans, I mean
the United States more than, 

672
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,520
say, including Canadians, or I 
know, yes. 

673
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,640
But I would say it's the dis 
United States, yes, right. 

674
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,680
Like, there's no America. 
There's only blue America and 

675
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,040
red America and tech America. 
And so just like there's no 

676
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:33,560
Korea, there's only North Korea 
and South Korea. 

677
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,200
We can see that on the map. 
It's explicit, right? 

678
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,120
They actually have territory. 
They have governments, they have

679
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,880
laws that are incompatible with 
each other, and they point guns 

680
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,280
at each other and they hate each
other or whatever. 

681
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:44,760
Right. 
Fine. 

682
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,560
So, you know, I don't know the 
very latest on creative 

683
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,560
politics, but, you know, they're
still aliens. 

684
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:50,120
Yeah, exactly. 
And. 

685
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:52,760
It's not likely to come together
anytime soon. 

686
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:53,840
No, exactly. 
That's right. 

687
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,400
So whereas blue American, red 
America, they kind of have the 

688
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,280
separate territories with blue 
States and red states. 

689
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:05,600
And the level to which they're 
polarized is widening over time 

690
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,640
where, you know, for example, 4,
only 4% of Democrats marry 

691
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,840
Republicans, right, Right. 
And so you also have something 

692
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,760
where they don't vote for 
Republicans, obviously they 

693
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,600
don't even socialize with them. 
Essentially the starting in 2020

694
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,400
with a bunch of Republicans 
going to Gab and Truth Social 

695
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,800
and now you had 10s of millions 
of Democrats going to Blue Sky 

696
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,960
right? 
And Threads and TikTok, the 

697
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,800
center has smashed into pieces 
like Twitter's acquisition was 

698
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,440
like AI think it was necessary 
and good that what Elon did. 

699
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,120
It's like a tower available 
moment where the old center, 

700
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,200
even the Internet center where 
Twitter was the center of the 

701
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,280
English Internet doesn't exist. 
You have X and you have Gab and 

702
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,280
you have truth and you have 
Farcaster and you have Noster 

703
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:48,880
and you have, you know, base and
so on. 

704
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,680
And you have threads and you 
have blue sky and you have 

705
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,960
Mastodon and you have TikTok. 
And so the whole thing has gone 

706
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,880
just smashed into pieces and the
digital succession has already 

707
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,440
happened, right? 
Like Blues and Reds have already

708
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,040
split apart. 
The third thing in terms of 

709
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,200
which Americans can handle the 
thing that you're saying, 

710
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,000
they're tech Americans actually 
had a third group, right? 

711
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,240
The Internet Americans can ride 
the lightning, right? 

712
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,480
The Internet Americans, maybe 
that's 5 or 10% they can, 

713
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,680
they're, you know, they're born 
in the, in the chaos, right? 

714
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,360
Because startups are chaos, 
right? 

715
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,400
So they can ride the curves all 
the way up and and that's fine. 

716
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,200
And that's a Malou that we know,
right? 

717
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,920
Those are the people who are 
developing AI. 

718
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,560
They are developing. 
But let me ask you a question. 

719
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:29,920
What is America minus the 
Internet? 

720
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,480
Well, what is America minus the 
Internet? 

721
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,280
Yes. 
Right. 

722
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,800
Like is it successful? 
No. 

723
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,280
No, but I think, but I also 
think that in some interesting 

724
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:44,000
way the Internet needed America 
at start, Yes, it's sort of 

725
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,080
causes of pushed it forward and 
everyone had to adopt it because

726
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:47,920
of America. 
Totally, totally. 

727
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,200
But I'd say his analogy, the 
Internet is to America as 

728
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,560
America was to Britain. 
OK, so Britain obviously does 

729
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:57,240
America owe a debt to Britain? 
Of course it owes a debt to 

730
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,640
Britain in many ways, so many 
countless ways. 

731
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,600
It's culture was a fork of 
Britain. 

732
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,720
Yeah, right. 
And. 

733
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,560
Still maintain the English 
language self maintained. 

734
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,080
Language, exactly, all kinds of 
things. 

735
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:07,280
And they have a sympathy for 
Britain. 

736
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,360
They're not anti Britain, right?
But they're 10X the scale of 

737
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,880
Britain. 
They're more progressive and 

738
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,760
more libertarian, more right. 
And the Internet is to 

739
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,200
America's, America's to Britain.
Yeah, where it's like 10 XA 

740
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,280
scale. 
But dangling. 

741
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,080
But do you think America is not 
going to be America? 

742
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,800
Maybe America might not be 
America in the physical sense, 

743
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,840
but I think America as the idea.
Well, that's what the Internet 

744
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,880
is exactly, right? 
So, so basically what MAGA and, 

745
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,240
and, and you know what was 
happening now in the US is MAGA 

746
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,240
has China envy. 
So they don't admit it, right? 

747
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,080
Like basically I'll show you 2 
graphs, right? 

748
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,720
OK, let's see it all. 
Right. 

749
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:46,000
This graph OK, shows. 
So let's let me just back for a 

750
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,520
second. 
Imagine not a two faction model 

751
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,480
of blue red or America China, 
but A4 faction model of blue 

752
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,120
America, red America China and 
the Internet, OK, This first 

753
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,600
graph shows that in the year 
2010, right? 

754
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,320
Essentially Google and Facebook 
disrupted legacy media, right? 

755
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,640
Yeah, they were at yeah, they 
were at 60 billion, some in 

756
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,840
revenue even to the mid 2000s. 
And they plummeted to like 16 

757
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,679
billion revenue like a 75% drop 
in like 4 years, 5-6 years, 

758
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:16,639
right? 
And, and the Internet went 

759
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:18,120
vertical. 
So the Internet disrupted Blue 

760
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,679
America right? 
Around 2010, OK, At the same 

761
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:25,560
time, in a different theater of 
this giant social war here you 

762
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,080
see China disrupting US 
manufacturing and the colors are

763
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:31,880
reversed. 
But basically, sure, this is 

764
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,840
China disrupting red America. 
Yeah, right. 

765
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,199
So red America, in the same time
that blue America is losing to 

766
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:39,760
Internet, red America is losing 
to China. 

767
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,040
OK, And the response to this, 
you've heard the saying maybe 

768
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,480
sometimes like, you know, go 
woke, go broke, right? 

769
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,080
But actually what happened was 
go broke, go woke, right? 

770
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,880
Right. 
First blue America lost all this

771
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,040
money, then they politically 
radicalized the consequence and 

772
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,840
they started fighting A2 front 
war where there's the anti tech 

773
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,560
tech clash, which started in 
2013. 

774
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:04,040
And then there was the obviously
the wokeness, which was an 

775
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,200
attack on red America because 
their pie was shrinking and they

776
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,920
wanted to take back the pies 
from these two guys. 

777
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,920
You know, the red and and and 
Internet factions that taking 

778
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,440
their pie away, right? 
Red America felt the exact same 

779
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,480
feeling because they were under 
attack from China economic 

780
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:20,560
attacks. 
So they felt right. 

781
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,960
And so they responded with Trump
and Trump was both a fight 

782
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,960
against blue America and the 
trade war was versus China, 

783
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,480
right? 
So you actually have a bar brawl

784
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:34,960
with the Internet, blue America,
red America in China and the 

785
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,240
Internet in China in the mid 
twenty 10s were sort of taken 

786
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,480
aback because the Internet 
thought of themselves as 

787
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,280
Democrats and China thought of 
themselves as basically working 

788
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,280
collaboratively with the US 
manufacturing because all those 

789
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,600
CE OS who had missed moved the 
stuff overseas or whatever, 

790
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,400
right. 
And there was a trade partners 

791
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:50,920
and they were working hard for 
them to grinding. 

792
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,720
And the Internet in China were 
taken aback in the mid twenty 

793
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:57,160
10s by all of this. 
And and at first they took huge 

794
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,800
hits, right. 
Like the Internet, like all the 

795
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,120
way, you know, all the 
censorship, all of the attacks 

796
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,560
and CEOs and stuff over the, you
know, second-half of the 20 

797
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,440
tens, like Travis Kalanick, you 
know, getting pushed out of 

798
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,080
Uber, all that kind of stuff. 
And it didn't make as much 

799
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,800
headlines in the in the 
Anglophone world. 

800
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,680
But the trade war was a huge 
thing in China, right? 

801
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,840
Lots of companies had their IPOs
crushed. 

802
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:17,200
All kinds of crazy things 
happened. 

803
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:23,080
And but then what happened after
20/20/21 is the tide turned. 

804
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,360
And then the Internet after 2022
really went on offense. 

805
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,720
China went on offense, OK. 
And now China started shipping 

806
00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:32,560
cars and they flipped everybody 
worldwide, say basically they 

807
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,920
they took all these hits, then 
they figured it out and now only

808
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,360
15% of the revenue comes from 
the US. 

809
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,520
And they just went to a complete
new gear after 2022, similar to 

810
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,320
the Internet had taken all these
hits and they figured out a new 

811
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:47,520
gear. 
Elon acquired Twitter and we're,

812
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,400
you know, we pushed with all in 
and all all of these kinds of 

813
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,680
things, you know, with the like 
pirate wires, all the tech 

814
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,840
media, but really more of a 
basicness among tech just 

815
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,320
pushing in and actually, OK, 
you're fighting, we're going to 

816
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,560
fight, right? 
And in fighting, actually there 

817
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,720
was a victory, right Where like 
the internet's victory of blue 

818
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:06,400
America is kind of obvious at 
this point. 

819
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,320
China's victory of red America 
is obvious in China or anybody's

820
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,960
looking at graphs, right? 
And yet there's still a 

821
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,160
rearguard action, right? 
What Trump is doing with the 

822
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,560
tariffs is actually mirrored by 
what Blue America is doing with 

823
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,520
less fanfare. 
Blue America has, for example, 

824
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,040
all these unions and media 
corporations that are anti AI. 

825
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,440
They're trying both to maintain 
a protectionist thing and 

826
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,040
protect what money they have 
against this Internet in China 

827
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,720
kind of wave. 
But the problem is that all 

828
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:38,000
media is going to be AI and all 
money is going to crypto. 

829
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,920
So the, the last strongholds of 
blue will will fall and all 

830
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,480
manufacturing is going robots 
and all military is going 

831
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,240
drones. 
And that's where China's totally

832
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:49,480
dominant. 
And it's kind of like written. 

833
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:50,760
America is trying something 
there. 

834
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,040
And there's, there's I think 
it'll be something that comes 

835
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,920
out of that, right? 
They're, they're at least more 

836
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,360
productive. 
Blue America is just purely 

837
00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,640
defensive. 
There's at least some attempt by

838
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,040
like the tech guys, which is 
different than the Reds by the 

839
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,280
way, But there's, there's some, 
you know, there's some overlap 

840
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,680
between tech and the right over 
here to try to build like, you 

841
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,240
know, American dynamism and so 
on and so forth. 

842
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,400
Nevertheless, that is not price 
competitive on global markets 

843
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,080
with Chinese manufacturing 
because of this sheer scale of 

844
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,080
what China is. 
Yeah, right. 

845
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,480
Expertise that have built over 
time, yeah. 

846
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,800
There's like 1.4 billion Chinese
people and 77 million megas and 

847
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,440
China's export to every country 
in the world. 

848
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,560
And China's has the insane price
competitiveness required to make

849
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,120
a profit in Nigeria and Brazil 
and all these kinds of places. 

850
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,360
So they've got all their numbers
completely dialed in. 

851
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,200
And really, the physical world 
is made in China and the digital

852
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:37,400
world is made in the Internet, 
right? 

853
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,920
And when you see this, my 
analogy is to Europe in the 

854
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:46,000
early 1900s OK, so Europe in the
early 1900s was the central of 

855
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,800
the world, right? 
You had Britain, you had 

856
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,640
England, you know, you had 
France and Germany. 

857
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,240
And this is where culture was. 
All the Nobel Prizes were there,

858
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:54,000
all the kind of stuff. 
And you get these barbarian 

859
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,320
powers on either side, America 
and Russia. 

860
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,880
And then what happened was these
were the ones that had the 

861
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,880
growth rate, right? 
They were the biggest 

862
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,520
populations. 
And you know, they're they're 

863
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,240
they're Barbarians and somebody 
they weren't considered the 

864
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:06,200
central culture. 
They had some things going for 

865
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,320
them, but they were always down 
rated relative to obviously it's

866
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,240
Europe, right? 
What happened was Europe 

867
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,200
essentially, you know, after a 
lot of fighting inwardly 

868
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,680
collapsed. 
It went to socialism, 

869
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:15,880
Nationalist. 
Hitting wars the. 

870
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,680
Militating wars, exactly 
internal wars. 

871
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,240
And it ended up being literally 
split down the middle between 

872
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,560
America and Russia, between 
American capitalism and Soviet 

873
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,280
communism, right. 
And I think that that's 

874
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,200
happening again today, where in 
the early 2000s, America was the

875
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,240
central of the world, and after 
winning the Cold War, basically 

876
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:38,040
it was just the center of 
everything, and Democrats and 

877
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,080
Republicans and nobody really. 
Fights no more need to unite 

878
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,240
against. 
Yeah, exactly. 

879
00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:42,880
So they just started fighting 
each other even more 

880
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,640
aggressively. 
And then the two barbarian 

881
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,480
powers on the other side were 
the Internet in China. 

882
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,080
And these are the growth rates, 
right? 

883
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,600
Billions of users, you know, 
like, like the growth rate of 

884
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:53,560
China. 
I don't have to tell you the 

885
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,720
last, of course. 
Yeah, it's insane, right? 

886
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,840
But in a sense, they're both 
invisible to an American. 

887
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,320
The internet's intangible and 
China's overseas. 

888
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,560
So these growth rates, as crazy 
as they are, were also 

889
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,560
invisible, right? 
They were far away in some 

890
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,440
sense, right? 
Like I have to still, even 

891
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,440
today, persuade people of how 
important the Internet is or how

892
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,680
big Chinese manufacturing is. 
It's simply not part of the. 

893
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,680
That they're thinking about. 
Well, they, they can only 

894
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,480
perceive it through graphs and 
charts, right? 

895
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,880
Like you and I have been part of
enough tech companies and see 

896
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,760
enough projects that we 
viscerally understand. 

897
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,120
Actually, though, even a lot of 
tech guys don't understand the 

898
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,280
sheer scale of what the Internet
is until you're at like a giant 

899
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,360
tech conference where you've 
materialized all those people 

900
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,080
into the physical world, right? 
Like, you know, we, we see a 

901
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,520
number on the screen, but you 
don't perceive Like there's this

902
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:42,480
great post by visualizing crowd 
sizes, right? 

903
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,720
Like this is like 50 people. 
This is 100. 

904
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,920
This is 15250. 
This comes a point where it's 

905
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:51,240
hard to perceive at that point. 
Well, that's The thing is like 

906
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,960
10,000 people in one place is 
like a stadium, right, 20,000? 

907
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,120
It also feels impersonal, right?
Because what happens is that you

908
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:58,880
can't. 
Yeah. 

909
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,600
And you can't relate to the 
dynamic? 

910
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,560
Sometimes, yeah. 
Yes, here's my point. 

911
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,520
This is what 180,000 people 
looks like, right? 

912
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:08,160
So I have like 1.1 million 
followers on on X, right. 

913
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,040
So that's about 5-6 X this 
number. 

914
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,680
So I sometimes before I go to 
tweet, visualize like going to 

915
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,520
the center of the star spangled,
the center of see, you know. 

916
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,480
Star Balaji. 
No, kind of like that. 

917
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,000
Kind of like that. 
Like the NFL, you say? 

918
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,760
Right, So there, you know, 
before someone gives the 

919
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,120
national anthem at the center of
a giant sports event, there's 

920
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,480
like 20,000 people. 
And if you've got one note off, 

921
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,640
everybody hears it, right? 
So when you before you go to 

922
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:39,880
tweet you, when you actually see
this, you're like, oh, that's 

923
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,200
what 180,000 views means. 
It literally means that, right? 

924
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,000
And with Twitter, you know, or X
you, if you refresh it, you will

925
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,200
actually see the page view 
count. 

926
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,000
Grow up. 
And you're like, wow, That means

927
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:51,240
actually there's one of the very
few scenes in movies that have 

928
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:54,440
depicted this. 
In the Social Network movie, 

929
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,120
there is a scene at the 
beginning with Facemash where it

930
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,400
actually shows a bunch of people
all looking at the same screen 

931
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,080
but in different rooms, right? 
You don't perceive that as an 

932
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,960
individual because you need to 
have simultaneous cameras in 

933
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,680
like hundreds, thousands of 
different rooms to see all these

934
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,160
people refreshing the phone at 
the same time. 

935
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:18,000
If you actually saw the clip of 
180,000 people seeing the tweet 

936
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:20,880
and some guy is like, you know, 
after a workout and somebody's 

937
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,440
on a plane, someone's in the 
desert and so on and so forth. 

938
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,000
Just that alone is an 
interesting premise for, for 

939
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,800
like a maybe a short clip. 
Maybe I should do that. 

940
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,960
The point is the Internet, 
despite its enormous scale, is 

941
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,280
invisible in a sense. 
And China, despite its enormous 

942
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:34,920
scale, is invisible in a sense, 
right? 

943
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:36,880
See, barbarian powers have been 
growing. 

944
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,840
And then in my view, what's 
going to happen is, you know, 

945
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,360
the enemy of enemy is a friend, 
right? 

946
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,240
And so I'm seeing the Democrats 
will eventually side with 

947
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:47,600
Chinese communists. 
That's why Newsom has gone to 

948
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,720
China and said, you know, Gavin 
Newsom, of course. 

949
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:50,200
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

950
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,240
So he went, he went to China and
met with XI and he said he wants

951
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:54,960
to be China's long term stable 
and strong partner. 

952
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:55,840
I don't know if you saw that 
right. 

953
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,400
Wow, I didn't see that. 
Yeah, here. 

954
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,000
That's insane. 
I mean, so I'm obviously not at 

955
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,360
the heart of American politics. 
Yeah. 

956
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:09,280
This idea that that Newsom is 
actually doing this would be 

957
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:10,360
quite surprising to me. 
Yeah. 

958
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,800
Well, yeah, so here is basically
this was the whole thing in 

959
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,280
Xinhua. 
Welcome. 

960
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,560
More nuisance to come, right? 
And so? 

961
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,880
How much of this is Xinhua 
saying it versus actually? 

962
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,480
But this is his quote. 
Yes, he's willing to be China's 

963
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:23,800
long term, stable and strong 
partner. 

964
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,560
OK. 
I mean, a lot of people might 

965
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,160
just say that, but would they 
actually mean it? 

966
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,520
You know, politics is sometimes,
well, you know. 

967
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:32,280
I know, I know, but. 
Basically in the room. 

968
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:33,480
It's true. 
It's true, it's true. 

969
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,760
But basically, so Newsom 
welcomed GI also out to San 

970
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,040
Francisco. 
He cleaned up the streets for 

971
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,040
him. 
And so it's, if you remember 

972
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:39,520
that, right. 
Yeah. 

973
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:41,080
So that this was the other part 
of it. 

974
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,960
He had had a whole visit. 
Because The thing is GI could 

975
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,280
sort of recognize Newsom as also
being the the governor of a 

976
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,080
large state that becomes the 
president is a path that GI 

977
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,280
could recognize as similar to 
him. 

978
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,520
This meeting happened in 2023 
where people thought Newsom 

979
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,720
could become president, you 
know, because there's going to 

980
00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:58,480
be a jump ball. 
After Biden stepped down, 

981
00:43:58,480 --> 00:43:59,880
everybody knew Biden was going 
to step down. 

982
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,280
The fine thing about it is it 
wasn't a Biden conspiracy 

983
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:03,840
theories, Biden conspiracy 
theories. 

984
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,040
The reason is different 
factions, the Democrat Party 

985
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,000
thought each of them would win 
the hot swap, right? 

986
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:09,560
Like, was it going to be 
Michelle Obama? 

987
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,000
You know, Right, right. 
So Newsom probably thought he 

988
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,040
was going to win the hot swap. 
He took a whole meeting right 

989
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:15,440
after the thing, but it went to 
column. 

990
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,600
OK, what's my point? 
Point is Newsom also Tim Walz 

991
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,400
has basically said China should 
intervene on the Iran thing, 

992
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,920
right? 
In many ways I can, I can share 

993
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,400
a bunch of graphs, but 
essentially Democrats are much 

994
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,800
more sympathetic to China than 
Republicans are, right? 

995
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,920
Just like Republicans are more 
sympathetic to Russia 

996
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,800
historically than than than 
reverse, right. 

997
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,840
So I think, you know, Democrats 
will end up aligning with 

998
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,480
Chinese communists because if 
they don't have DC, they need 

999
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:40,880
XI. 
That's how that's how Newsom is 

1000
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,400
going to think about it. 
I I would not be surprised to 

1001
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:48,760
see them essentially not enforce
the tariffs on in, in Oregon, in

1002
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,920
Washington and California, the 
West Coast states, if the 

1003
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,520
tariffs really contribute to 
inflation, they may simply not 

1004
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,360
enforce them, especially if 
because the China tariffs keep 

1005
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,560
getting suspended, suspended. 
But who knows, they might go, 

1006
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,320
they might go real, right. 
If they did, there's a 

1007
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,960
possibility for a left populism 
where they just don't enforce 

1008
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,000
the tariffs and then they invite
a confrontation on that or 

1009
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,760
whatever, right. 
So I think it's very possible, 

1010
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:09,840
right? 
That's the kind of thing which 

1011
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,680
is federal versus state who has 
control, right? 

1012
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:13,960
OK. 
And this is similar by the way, 

1013
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,720
to the federal versus state on 
the border, but in reverse. 

1014
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,960
These are now the Democrats want
the the packages to come in and 

1015
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,320
as opposed to Republicans 
wanting people to stay out, 

1016
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:23,840
right? 
OK. 

1017
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,400
Then the other side of that is, 
you know, Republicans in the 

1018
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,800
Internet, right? 
And this is something which is 

1019
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,520
one way to think about this is 
from 2020 to 2025 especially or 

1020
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,560
2024, Democrats really did fight
China pretty hard, right? 

1021
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,520
But then eventually they're now 
in the can't beat them, join 

1022
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,480
them mode. 
And I think by 20-30 they will 

1023
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,160
link up with them completely. 
But don't you think that 

1024
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,000
politically at least, the 
impression we have? 

1025
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,440
And first of all, I'm all for 
more collaboration between 

1026
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:51,840
countries. 
Yeah, because I actually think 

1027
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,720
more confrontation is bad. 
And I also think it's inevitable

1028
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:58,440
right in the way I would also 
argue that the more the US can 

1029
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:02,160
integrate and work with China 
and vice versa, it becomes more 

1030
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,480
Co interdependence you. 
Know yes, but the US doesn't 

1031
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,920
exist like they say red America 
and blue America have different.

1032
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:09,760
Foreign policies different form,
yeah, I understand and there's 

1033
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,560
but but just generally speaking 
because when I think when when 

1034
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:13,880
there's jobs and there's money 
of. 

1035
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,680
Course, of course, yes, broad 
level, I agree. 

1036
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:16,600
Broad level. 
Broad level we. 

1037
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,640
Should we should get there, But 
I think for the time being, I 

1038
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,640
don't see at least externally 
from the lens being in Hong Kong

1039
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:28,440
and by extension in China as 
well that we view neither 

1040
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,840
Democrat or Republicans as being
pro China like that. 

1041
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,040
That sounds, I know that sounds 
to me as you know, that's a 

1042
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:34,560
bipartisan thing, which is a bit
of a shame. 

1043
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,840
But I think it is one of those 
challenges and I think China is 

1044
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,760
responding at the moment 
politically, including in the 

1045
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,720
area of crypto regulations like 
with the stable coin in Hong 

1046
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:46,720
Kong, with the HKMA and so on. 
Basically, it's a response to 

1047
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:49,400
America as a whole, not 
specifically to MAGA America, 

1048
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,840
but I think generally speaking 
to just how do we make sure that

1049
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,880
we protect what we have and, and
totally? 

1050
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,400
Totally. 
But I'd say that, well, we're in

1051
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,000
a time of transition where like 
the tectonic plates are moving, 

1052
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,360
but there's a number of reasons 
where like Democrats I think 

1053
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:05,880
will link up with Chinese 
Communists, right. 

1054
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,000
And and for one, The thing is 
that go ahead. 

1055
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,800
No, I, I mean, I'm not as 
familiar with that, so obviously

1056
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,800
it's hard for me to comment, but
this idea that an American 

1057
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:20,720
faction in this case would 
actually side with China to me 

1058
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:26,360
sounds like as a country sounds 
almost sounds as big as when 

1059
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,200
people were saying Trump is 
siding with Russia. 

1060
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,720
Or Trump with Elon? 
Yes, Trump with Elon. 

1061
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,880
Basically like new SMG is as big
a realignment as Trump and Elon.

1062
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,000
Remember early anyway. 
Well, yeah. 

1063
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:39,320
That's right. 
So exactly, but basically so 

1064
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,760
like remember Elon Trump was 
like, oh, Elon should get on his

1065
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,320
knees and beg whatever the first
administration then obviously 

1066
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,600
they were the bestest friends 
ever for like 2 years, three 

1067
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,720
years and now they're out again,
unfortunately right. 

1068
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,080
So but that that was something 
we. 

1069
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,440
Should call politics. 
Well, it's politics, politics, 

1070
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:59,160
but it's actually it reminds me 
of World War 2 and like how the 

1071
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,040
Nazis and the Soviets were 
actually allied at beginning to 

1072
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,440
invade Poland together. 
And then the Soviets and the 

1073
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,200
Americans were allied to beat 
the Nazis and the Soviets and 

1074
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,720
the Americans split the Germans 
East and West Germany, right? 

1075
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,040
And you know the so basically 
all three factions existed, 

1076
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,120
right? 
Germany plus Russia against 

1077
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,120
everybody, Russia plus America 
against Germany, and then half 

1078
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,120
the Germans and Americans and 
half the Germans and Russians 

1079
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,400
against each other, right? 
So all three permutations 

1080
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:31,000
happened, right? 
And my view is Democrats aligned

1081
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,760
with Chinese communists and 
Republicans become Bitcoin 

1082
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,200
maximus. 
So that's the other piece of it,

1083
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:36,680
right? 
Like we're still in the middle 

1084
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:38,160
of this transition. 
So, but what you're then saying 

1085
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,880
is, is that America will 
essentially no longer be? 

1086
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:42,360
It's not a. 
Country. 

1087
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,960
Well, yeah, country. 
Country is a geography. 

1088
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,080
Well, with borders and a 
governors and so on, Yeah, yeah.

1089
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,360
But to me, I guess you know, a 
country is I guess if it's 

1090
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,120
representative by its people, 
right, you can 11 could say that

1091
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,640
what is those people? 
Does it, Are we saying it's two 

1092
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,320
Americas or are we saying it's 
still one America under 1 hub? 

1093
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:05,240
Because the whole I guess 
federal construct allows for I 

1094
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,560
guess different opinions and 
ideas and structures to exist 

1095
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,840
within a common federal 
structure, whereas the states 

1096
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,360
themselves are different. 
Doesn't mean that states have 

1097
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,560
more freedoms as a result. 
There's different ways you can 

1098
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:16,720
break down, right? 
And it's possible that it's like

1099
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:20,200
the fault of the USSR where 
these administrative boundaries 

1100
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,600
for like the so and so Socialist
Republic actually suddenly 

1101
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,400
became real, right? 
And suddenly Jiu Jinx stands 

1102
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,080
like, OK, I'm a country, right? 
So those like fake 

1103
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,680
administrative boundaries became
real and, you know, because they

1104
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:32,520
were just something that 
everybody could agree existed 

1105
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,000
beforehand, right? 
So it's possible because you saw

1106
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,120
this during COVID, actually, 
there were hard borders between 

1107
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,000
like Rhode Island and New York 
or whatever, right? 

1108
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,600
Like, you know, people were not 
able to just go back and forth 

1109
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:43,800
because, you know, they're COVID
borders. 

1110
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:44,960
It was Rhode Island, New York. 
It was like. 

1111
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,200
Yeah, but but, you know, the 
collapse of the Soviet Union was

1112
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,680
essentially one that the Soviet 
Union simply couldn't sustain 

1113
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,840
itself anymore. 
Yeah, I think in, I think the 

1114
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,160
interdependence and 
relationships that you have 

1115
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,240
because the one difference about
a communist planned economy, and

1116
00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:01,520
that's only because of the fact 
that when I grew up in Europe at

1117
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,040
the time, I witnessed that to 
some extent is that planned 

1118
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,280
economies have centers. 
Because essentially there's a 

1119
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,160
there's a country that's 
dictating what you do, where you

1120
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,960
do, how you do it, right. 
So this place makes cold. 

1121
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,840
That place is this. 
COVID checkpoints. 

1122
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:21,320
So COVID checkpoints targeting 
state residents. 

1123
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,480
Yeah. 
So I understand the restrictions

1124
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,520
in the borders, right? 
But I'm saying like, see, Rhode 

1125
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,160
Island pulls over New Yorkers to
keep the virus at Bay, right? 

1126
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,640
Yeah. 
So the point being that 

1127
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:35,680
basically did the virus 
correspond to like what state 

1128
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:37,280
you lived in? 
No, it didn't, right? 

1129
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:39,600
No, but that was the existing 
administrative boundary that 

1130
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,880
people could coordinate on. 
And even if it was completely 

1131
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,320
uncorrelated with the virus or 
what have you, they established 

1132
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,320
borders on that basis. 
And I look at just like 2008 was

1133
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,200
in a sense, a dress rehearsal 
for 20/20/2020 was a dress 

1134
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,880
rehearsal for 2030. 
Yeah, although I so I would 

1135
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:54,800
disagree with you with that, but
I understand the construct and 

1136
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,600
the reason why I disagree is 
that because when you look at 

1137
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:59,240
what happened to the fault, the 
users are Yeah, the planned 

1138
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:04,880
economy construct of it yes, 
basically 4, the sort of made 

1139
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,360
the breakup somewhat easier I 
would say because you didn't 

1140
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,120
have true interdependence 
because there was no 

1141
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,800
decentralized economy, okay, 
that existed inside USSR versus 

1142
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,440
America, which is because of its
nature, yes, it's very 

1143
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,760
international global as well, 
but there's many more ties in 

1144
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,240
okay, connections between them. 
Sorry, good. 

1145
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:22,560
For sure you're saying. 
Yeah. 

1146
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,200
So what I'm saying is that while
you know politically and so 

1147
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,400
ideologically that could be 
parts that definitely would fall

1148
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:29,840
apart in America, we can see 
this right now. 

1149
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:33,960
I think the business construct 
and the transactional elements 

1150
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,160
of doing business together is 
what ties it together. 

1151
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,920
Basically, inter American trade 
won't fall apart. 

1152
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,600
OK, I disagree with that too. 
OK, OK, here's why. 

1153
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,760
I think it took me a while to 
articulate this, but yeah, a 

1154
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,600
deep point for me. 
Is that Keynesianism is 

1155
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:51,360
communism but for wimps? 
OK, let me explain what I mean. 

1156
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,160
Keynesianism. 
So if you've seen the graph 

1157
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,080
where it shows like the US 
dollars value. 

1158
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,960
Follow up, right, Yeah. 
So that means that Keynesianism 

1159
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,680
actually does seize 100% of the 
wealth of the country over top. 

1160
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,160
It does seize 100% of the wealth
of the country over time, but it

1161
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,720
doesn't go door to door with 
guys with guns like communism 

1162
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:14,760
does, right? 
So it's able to do it invisibly.

1163
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,360
Like when you when you issue 
another trillion dollars or 

1164
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,320
whatever, it dilutes everybody 
down invisibly, every dollar 

1165
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,160
holder down. 
But you don't have to go door to

1166
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,360
door, right? 
See what happened in the Soviet 

1167
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,240
Union is they had to actually 
have, you know, like Lennon send

1168
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:31,080
his crazy guys to every house. 
They would kick in the door, 

1169
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,560
they'd kill the father, they'd 
rape the mother, they'd take the

1170
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,200
son off to the gulag and they 
they'd collectivize the farm. 

1171
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:38,520
That's what like 
collectivization meant. 

1172
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:39,520
The same thing happened with 
mounds. 

1173
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,680
So that's what communism meant 
and Keynesianism quote 

1174
00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:48,440
innovative on that by stealing 
all this wealth, but by 

1175
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,680
essentially diluting people down
when when you're running a cap 

1176
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,520
table, for example, you're 
highly sensitive to dilution on 

1177
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,360
a cap table, right? 
Like you're watching every point

1178
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,160
percentage ownership, right, 
Because you actually can see the

1179
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,800
denominator, but there isn't a 
well agreed upon denominator for

1180
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,960
how many dollars exists. 
The whole point of MMM, naughty 

1181
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:11,200
and M1 and M2 and so on is to 
make it, you know, complicated 

1182
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,200
and abstract. 
How many dollars are, Who knows?

1183
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,720
Let's do another trillion. 
Right, but Keynesianism doesn't 

1184
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:18,040
violate the construct of 
property rights in the same way.

1185
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,440
Well, it does because. 
On money, but not on assets. 

1186
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:22,520
Yeah, but yeah. 
But The thing is you're, you're 

1187
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,480
basically you're still seizing 
the assets, right. 

1188
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:25,240
Well, actually we're doing 
you're. 

1189
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:27,040
Seizing the money, but the 
assets are yours. 

1190
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,280
Well, therefore the assets do 
inflate because of the fact that

1191
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:31,640
more money is put into the 
system. 

1192
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,560
And I think the other thing on 
Keynesianism just, you know, in 

1193
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,720
independent of Keynesianism, 
obviously, you know this there's

1194
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:39,760
obviously a philosophical 
construct as well, which I think

1195
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:45,720
is interesting, is that the the 
politicians haven't been. 

1196
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,720
And just to clear, I'm not a 
Keynesian. 

1197
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,720
Yeah, Maximus on Keynesianism, 
I'm just saying that politicians

1198
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:55,520
have gone addicted to the idea 
of money basically. 

1199
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,240
Yeah, money printing to QE 
without actually doing the 

1200
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:01,080
fiscal discipline of. 
OK, now that it's there, let's 

1201
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,640
go and pull back, right? 
Because really Keynesianism was 

1202
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:06,600
trying to sort of. 
And I think to me, the 

1203
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,280
innovation of Keynesianism was 
around understanding that when 

1204
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,640
you put essentially. 
Adding liquidity to our worker. 

1205
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,320
Yes. 
And and to generate that sort of

1206
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,440
activity, I think is what what 
was powerful there. 

1207
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,320
I want to show you something. 
Yeah, please, because it pulls 

1208
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:23,040
the pieces together. 
OK, so this is a piece from 2010

1209
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:27,960
how to spend 1.25 trillion, OK. 
And these are two people at like

1210
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:30,800
the New York Fed, right? 
And it says the Fed decided to 

1211
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,720
buy 1.25 trillion in 
mortgage-backed bonds. 

1212
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:36,120
So this is the connection 
between currency and assets. 

1213
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,760
Because you print the currency, 
they can buy the assets. 

1214
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,920
But they're doing this to 
protect essentially a base of 

1215
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:42,800
people. 
But I understand. 

1216
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,760
Well, what they're actually in 
my view they're they diluted 

1217
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,840
down at all Americans and the 
world to prop up the banks, 

1218
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:51,920
right? 
Like like the money? 

1219
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:53,800
Like is it this? 
Is. 

1220
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,640
But the problem of the banks was
to basically ensure the safety 

1221
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,680
of the state and essentially to 
make sure that. 

1222
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,200
There's an argument for that, 
right? 

1223
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,000
But, and I can and, and we'll 
come back to that argument, 

1224
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:04,240
right? 
But let me just at least say 

1225
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:07,480
what they actually did right. 
So somebody actually go buy all 

1226
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,320
these mortgages. 
So how'd they do it right? 

1227
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:11,040
This was this really interesting
thing. 

1228
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,000
It's possible I was buying the 
mortgage on my own house says 

1229
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:15,480
this guy. 
And then they came very, very 

1230
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,400
close to Target. 
They told they were $0.61 short.

1231
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:23,520
They bought one trillion, 
$249,909,909,909.39 right. the 

1232
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,600
Fed was able to spend so much 
money so quickly because of the 

1233
00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:27,360
unique power can create money 
out of thin air. 

1234
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,680
OK, but but here's the thing 
about this right like there's 

1235
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,040
like several. 
This is an unusually clear 

1236
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:38,840
statement of what the actual 
U.S. government is, which is 

1237
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:44,000
like communism where they can 
just seize any asset by printing

1238
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,640
money, right? 
Like 'cause they're buying the 

1239
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:48,680
mortgage. 
It is centrally planned, right? 

1240
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,480
1.25 There's no, there's no Max 
tax, right? 

1241
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:53,520
There might be a minimum wage, 
but there's no Max tax. 

1242
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,000
This 1.25 trillion, just to 
think about what that means, 

1243
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,680
that's $1000 iPhone for a 
billion people in China. 

1244
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,920
But they did end up, they bought
it, but then ultimately over 

1245
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,760
time, they basically sort of 
sold it back, so to speak, was 

1246
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:06,080
it but. 
Yeah, sure. 

1247
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,160
OK, so, so. 
Well, actually, they haven't 

1248
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:09,960
actually completely offloaded 
all their Astros. 

1249
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,840
There, but they have offloaded I
guess the. 

1250
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:13,360
Point is, the government seized 
it. 

1251
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,120
I mean like if. 
But why did they seize it? 

1252
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,240
They seized it to rescue it 
rather than to seize it as a as 

1253
00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:21,080
a means of control, which I 
think is the difference between.

1254
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,440
The two OK, OK, but there's two 
different. 

1255
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,920
Well, OK, first of all, you're, 
you're agreeing that they had 

1256
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,600
good intentions, right? 
I would say if you actually go 

1257
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,520
to what caused the mortgage 
crisis in the 1st place, it was 

1258
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,600
the government forcing many 
banks to extend mortgages to 

1259
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,080
people who couldn't afford it, 
right? 

1260
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,720
The, the red, you know, like 
anti redlining stuff. 

1261
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:41,200
They forced mortgages onto black
people, Hispanic people and so 

1262
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,520
on. 
And in fact, actually even NYT 

1263
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,560
admitted this. 
Like NYT Bush era. 

1264
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:52,800
I don't think it's also but they
also. 

1265
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:56,280
Ownership fueled housing bubble.
So this is a both a Bush and a 

1266
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:57,640
Clinton thing. 
There's someone called the CRA 

1267
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,360
community reinvestment. 
The thing is, if you trace it 

1268
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:04,280
back, the government forced the 
banks to make these mortgages. 

1269
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,520
Then when it crashed the 
economy, they said, oh, we're 

1270
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,360
coming in to save it. 
And what happens is the state 

1271
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,600
causes the problem. 
It's like, it's like a 

1272
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,160
firefighter who's also an 
arsonist, OK, They caused the 

1273
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,120
blaze and it's a blazing and 
everybody's confused about what 

1274
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,480
caused the blaze. 
The firefighter comes in, you 

1275
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,600
know, sprays like this. 
And then they increase the 

1276
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:23,920
firefighter budget as well, 
right? 

1277
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:27,000
So like when you actually track 
back, why do they have to save 

1278
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:27,920
the world? 
Because they destroyed the 

1279
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,040
world, right? 
And the net effect of it at like

1280
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,800
a meta Organism level was upward
redistribution of wealth, right?

1281
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,480
That's to say they printed the 
money, they diluted down 

1282
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,600
everybody else and they bit up 
the banks and they bit up the 

1283
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:42,880
these mortgages now who got 
diluted down? 

1284
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,000
So I'll show you another graph 
which is this. 

1285
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,400
Yeah, unfortunately, inflation 
hurts still hurts the weakest of

1286
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,000
any because there. 
And if that's what? 

1287
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:52,120
You're trying to point to 
exactly. 

1288
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:54,280
I'll show you this really 
amazing graph this is from. 

1289
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,640
Let me see if I can share the 
screen here. 

1290
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:04,880
So we got it recorded. 
So did Republicans pay for 2008?

1291
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,040
OK, so let me just show you this
graphic. 

1292
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,280
Let me explain it what it is. 
OK, So there's actually an 

1293
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,440
animated version of it too. 
OK, But let me zoom. 

1294
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,280
Yeah, this is good. 
All right, So what is this 

1295
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,360
graphic? 
This shows each dot there is a 

1296
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,320
county, OK. 
And gosh, silly thing. 

1297
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:26,080
Yeah. 
So each dot there is a county, 

1298
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,880
right? 
And this is the GDP of that 

1299
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:31,640
county. 
This is a poor County Down here 

1300
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,080
and a rich county up here, 
right? 

1301
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,720
OK, so and the Blues are 
Democrat voting counties and the

1302
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:37,960
Reds are Republican voting 
counties. 

1303
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,080
Sorry, assume they don't flip 
sides at this point, right? 

1304
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:46,880
So in the year 2008, this solid 
line over there, that that 

1305
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,600
envelope over there, you can see
that the blue envelope and the 

1306
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,760
red envelope are roughly the 
same. 

1307
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:58,400
But by 2018 you can see that all
the richest districts are blue. 

1308
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,640
But we can see this already in 
the when you look at like right 

1309
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,720
now, people look at the Blues as
the party of the elite as 

1310
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,240
opposed to the party. 
But but but that happened from 

1311
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,360
2008 to 2018, right? 
It happened in that 10 year 

1312
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,840
window where roughly Democrat 
counties and Republican counties

1313
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,880
were at parody to suddenly Blues
pulling way ahead like this, 

1314
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:19,960
right? 
And how they pull way ahead like

1315
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,600
this. 
I argue it's because that was 

1316
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:23,920
the time at the bomb 
administration. 

1317
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,200
All the printed money was being 
allocated. 

1318
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:28,920
And where did it go? 
It went mostly to blue connected

1319
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:33,000
States and institutions. 
So it went to banks in New York.

1320
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:35,160
It went to DC. 
And how much of that would you 

1321
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,840
say is related to the growing 
tech wealth that happened during

1322
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:39,200
that? 
Period. 

1323
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,560
A small slice of it. 
Right, so it's not a big slice. 

1324
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,600
It's a big slice like all VC is 
like ten billion, 20 billion a 

1325
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:45,600
year or something like that, 
right. 

1326
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,680
So relative to like. 
All the people who ended up 

1327
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,640
working at Google, $1,000,000 
packages and that kind of stuff,

1328
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:52,280
yes. 
But what happened was a small, 

1329
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:54,720
small slice of the like, there's
a trillion for the 

1330
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,560
mortgage-backed securities, 1A 
small slice of that, like less 

1331
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:02,280
than 1% made its way through the
rivulets into a productive 

1332
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,000
sector of the economy, which is 
the tech economy and just a 

1333
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,520
relatively small amount of money
on that, you know, very fertile 

1334
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,000
field went Bush like this, 
right? 

1335
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,480
And so that led to the growth of
tech, right? 

1336
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,920
But another piece of it was the 
crash led to huge price 

1337
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:18,560
pressure. 
So it also led to the growth of 

1338
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,080
China, right? 
And so China and the Internet 

1339
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:25,080
both were the strongest, the 
most supple, resilient, where 

1340
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:27,840
they were the ones who were 
actually able to benefit from 

1341
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:29,840
this, even if they didn't 
weren't next to the money 

1342
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:30,840
printer directly. 
Right. 

1343
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:32,680
OK. 
So then one of the things that 

1344
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:36,280
happened is it wasn't cost free,
that inflation was exported, for

1345
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:38,480
example, to the Middle East, 
helped trigger the Arab Spring. 

1346
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,640
Those countries were just in 
chaos, civil war and so and so 

1347
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:43,080
forth. 
In a sense, they paid for the 

1348
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,400
bailouts, right? 
These countries got diluted 

1349
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,080
down, their food prices got 
spiked, they got pushed in civil

1350
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:50,120
war. 
They're shooting each other. 

1351
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,440
Why? 
Because they got printed down. 

1352
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,720
Now The thing is, there's no 
blockchain, so it's hard to 

1353
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,360
prove this. 
I can only show sure series of 

1354
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,520
events, right? 
Series of events, some 

1355
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:02,240
assumptions, but basically the 
theory around it. 

1356
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:03,640
I understand there's theory, 
right? 

1357
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:06,320
So basically if the food price 
spikes helped, you know why 

1358
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,240
those prices spike then? 
Because the inflation was 

1359
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:11,720
exported, right? 
And these countries were already

1360
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,280
near the border of you. 
Know survival one of the reasons

1361
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,880
why countries like China are 
very sensitive to food prices 

1362
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:18,680
and management. 
I mean, I think one of the best 

1363
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,640
examples of a super stable 
society, despite the fact that 

1364
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,240
economically on a global parity,
wealth probably has suffered a 

1365
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,040
lot is Japan, right? 
And one of the fascinating the 

1366
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:27,960
other last time you were in 
Japan. 

1367
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,760
But you know, when you go to 
like, you know, slightly a 

1368
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,640
little bit out of Tokyo, but 
even within Tokyo, I'm always 

1369
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,600
fascinated how I can basically 
buy, you know, all those vending

1370
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,840
machines for the same amount of 
yen. 

1371
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,640
This the same drink that I could
pay for like say 20 years ago, 

1372
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:43,400
The same price. 
Right. 

1373
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:44,640
Yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of 
like the. 

1374
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:46,960
I mean, they were the masters of
QE if you think about it right. 

1375
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:48,760
Yeah, well, so are they masters?
It's funny. 

1376
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:50,440
So. 
Or at least, maybe they've. 

1377
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:51,960
Done it for a long time. 
They've done it for a long time 

1378
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:56,080
and I think they went through, 
but again, I I come down to the 

1379
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,840
thinking of why did they do it? 
And they tried to keep the 

1380
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:00,840
cohesion and stability of a 
nation together. 

1381
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:05,120
So let me counter argue on that.
OK, OK, so I, I, I I want to 

1382
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:06,000
bounce a ball back part. 
Yeah. 

1383
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,720
So my view is as follows. 
And Japan was actually doing 

1384
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:11,720
really well against America in 
the 80s, right? 

1385
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:17,800
And but America had actually see
at a certain point, you know, 

1386
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,480
you can rise to a certain point 
within the system, but then you 

1387
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,000
have to become the system, 
right? 

1388
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:25,440
And so Japan was rising to a 
certain point in the system, and

1389
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,280
it hit a ceiling where it's 
getting too big for its britches

1390
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,000
and becoming so successful that 
the US was, you know, there's 

1391
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:32,120
rising and there's all this 
anti. 

1392
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,360
Japanese. 
And then the US government 

1393
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:38,800
actually, it did kill the 
Japanese economy with the Plaza 

1394
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,200
Accords, right? 
And So what that was, was 

1395
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:45,680
something where Japan was forced
to not use it's yen to buy up 

1396
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:47,720
valuable factories and stuff in 
the US. 

1397
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,240
It had to buy, you know, 
treasuries. 

1398
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:53,120
So right #1 and #2 is actually 
interestingly, a lot of IP was 

1399
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,240
transferred from Japan to 
America. 

1400
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:57,240
It's in reverse from how people 
think about it, right? 

1401
01:02:57,720 --> 01:02:59,160
And there are other kinds of 
things as well. 

1402
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,720
But fundamentally what that did 
is it just blocked the rise of 

1403
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:03,640
Japan Inc and re subjugated 
them. 

1404
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,320
Because The thing is Japan and 
Europe, right? 

1405
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:11,040
They are in Canada. 
These until very recently are US

1406
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:14,000
colonies, right? 
They don't have they, they have 

1407
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:16,200
AUS military base there, right? 
There's no Japanese military. 

1408
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,880
Base of course, and this is this
is a post war, post war 

1409
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:19,640
construct. 
That's right. 

1410
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:21,480
So. 
So when we, you know, some 

1411
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,320
people say, oh, China will get, 
you know, we stop Japan's rise, 

1412
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:26,560
so America will stop China's 
rise, I can point to that's not 

1413
01:03:26,560 --> 01:03:27,400
the same. 
Absolutely. 

1414
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:29,120
It's not the same. 
And and I can actually point to 

1415
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:31,800
one article that shows it to 
anybody, you know. 

1416
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:33,760
Yeah. 
And and the other thing of 

1417
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:36,560
course is that, you know, during
that time, obviously, I mean 

1418
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,000
Japan's, you know, dependent on 
American security. 

1419
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,480
So there's a different, there's 
a different relationship between

1420
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:43,560
that versus eggs what you see in
China. 

1421
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,000
Exactly. 
So when push comes to shove, the

1422
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:50,280
US had root over Japan but do 
not have root over China. 

1423
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,920
And one way of proving that is 
like killing CIA informants. 

1424
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:54,320
China crippled US spying 
operations. 

1425
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:58,400
So that shows that's something 
that China could do that Japan 

1426
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:01,240
could never ever do, right. 
Japan could never kill AUS spy, 

1427
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:02,920
right. 
And what that means is if they 

1428
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,720
can't kill AUS spy, they can 
never have any communications 

1429
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:10,880
that are genuinely encrypted and
genuinely like, you know, seen 

1430
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:13,200
as as private or whatever in 
their country, right? 

1431
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,400
China can actually have 
communications that are private 

1432
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:18,480
within their country. 
But how does that relate to the 

1433
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,960
fact that Japan was in QE? 
Well, I'll come to that in a 

1434
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:21,680
second. 
OK. 

1435
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:27,760
So, well, actually the Japan, 
there's like there's many 

1436
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,200
complicated things about China. 
I can't say I understand every 

1437
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,720
single piece here. 
I don't speak Japanese, but they

1438
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:39,360
were essentially forced to buy 
treasuries and print as a way of

1439
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,040
crippling their economy. 
And this is something where 

1440
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,000
Japan Inc, their export machine 
was broken. 

1441
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,600
They were not allowed to export.
This is why like Sony, 

1442
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,040
Mitsubishi, all these things 
that were so amazing just 

1443
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,040
suddenly just kind of fell off a
Cliff, right? 

1444
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:53,480
Robert Lighthizer, other guys, 
trade representatives 

1445
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:56,760
essentially restricted Japan. 
There's a guy, my gosh, I think 

1446
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,400
Michael Hudson and so on, who 
writes about this. 

1447
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:01,880
And my view is that when they 
didn't have the export growth 

1448
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:04,520
anymore, they had to do the fake
growth of QE. 

1449
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,280
Right now that whole thing is 
breaking because you see 

1450
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:09,600
Japanese yields just going 
zooming like this. 

1451
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:13,000
They're they're seeing that, you
know, QE for, for that was there

1452
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:13,960
for. 
Well, they also have their 

1453
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:15,960
democracy time bomb. 
They have demographic, they have

1454
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:17,720
a lot. 
This century, I think Japan 

1455
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:21,200
becomes a Chinese colony. 
So history is running in 

1456
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:22,800
reverse. 
So last century China became, 

1457
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:25,000
you know, this century Japan 
becomes a Chinese colony where 

1458
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,240
Chinese people will be able to 
go into Japan, buy lots of 

1459
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,280
property relatively cheaply. 
And just like Indians are now 

1460
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,760
buying a lot of property in in 
in reverse, right. 

1461
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:36,480
And because a lot of things are 
happening with history in 

1462
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,880
reverse, like I can show a 
boomerang U curve kind of curve 

1463
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:45,040
from any different phenomena. 
My point is basically that the 

1464
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,200
the Japanese, you're right, have
preserved some degree of 

1465
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,160
stability in their society 
because they have homogeneity of

1466
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:51,960
culture, language, people and so
forth. 

1467
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:55,680
And if you are so they're not 
going to meltdown in the same 

1468
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,160
way America is. 
America has, you know, 300 

1469
01:05:58,160 --> 01:05:59,720
million guns, more guns than 
people. 

1470
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:01,720
People are crazed on every 
dimension. 

1471
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,680
There's gender and racial and 
ethnic and political and even 

1472
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:07,200
now age polarization because the
young don't want to pay for the 

1473
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,200
old for Social Security and so 
on and so forth. 

1474
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:10,760
So that's just going to 
meltdown, right? 

1475
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,680
Like I, I, I really disagree 
with you that or, but or not 

1476
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:16,440
really. 
I'd say my biggest point of 

1477
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:20,000
disagreement is you're correctly
seeing tech America and tech 

1478
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,920
America can ride the lightning, 
but most of America is not Tech 

1479
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:27,000
America and they are not rising 
with the Internet and they're 

1480
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,200
not rising with China. 
And you don't think Tech America

1481
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,240
will try to save the America 
because I do think there's a 

1482
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,480
degree of so because. 
Because they already just did. 

1483
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:36,680
They just did. 
And actually, Elon posted did my

1484
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:37,600
best. 
But. 

1485
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,560
You saw that post? 
Yeah, but Ding did my best 

1486
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:43,280
versus I'm giving up completely 
our two different things. 

1487
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,280
Well, he did no. 
Well, what does it mean to quote

1488
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:47,720
save America? 
Can you save Britain? 

1489
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:52,040
Like you actually put it like 
this, the, you know, the 

1490
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,280
American Empire, right, which 
was actually something that 

1491
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,200
there's a great book called 
Tomorrow the World, Steven 

1492
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:58,600
Wertheim that actually talks 
about this. 

1493
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,080
That was something that was 
consciously built because how is

1494
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:03,200
it there's a McDonald's 
everywhere? 

1495
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:06,680
How is it there's, you know, 
like, you know, 750 military 

1496
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:08,080
bases, U.S. military bases 
globally. 

1497
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:10,040
How is it that the dollars, the 
reserve currency everywhere? 

1498
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:12,240
How is it that U.S. media is 
ubiquitous? 

1499
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,240
You can't, you don't become 
global number one by accident, 

1500
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:16,960
right? 
This is like it's hard. 

1501
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:18,600
You know how hard it is to 
become number one in any 

1502
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:21,200
industry or in anything, right? 
You just don't become global 

1503
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:22,880
number one in so many different 
categories back. 

1504
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,280
So with having the UN and in New
York and you know, all these 

1505
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,320
people educated at Harvard, like
there's 20 heads of state 

1506
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:30,000
educated at Kennedy School of 
Government alone, right? 

1507
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,120
Becoming the center of the 
global empire was something 

1508
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:37,320
where in 19391940, when Britain 
was on the ropes, until that 

1509
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:40,800
point, America had been fine 
with the British having an 

1510
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:42,520
empire, right? 
Because it's expensive to run an

1511
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:43,520
empire, all this kind of stuff, 
right? 

1512
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,080
So they had wisdom, like, we're 
just gonna build up our 

1513
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:48,200
strength, not run an empire. 
But then they realized, wait a 

1514
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,520
second, if we don't run an 
empire, they thought at the time

1515
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,000
the Nazis could choke them off 
in terms of trade. 

1516
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:55,920
And then later is the Soviets. 
And they're like, well, if 

1517
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,800
America doesn't build an empire 
of democratic capitalism, the 

1518
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:01,400
Nazis or the Communists will, 
and that'll be bad for the whole

1519
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,680
world, which was true, right? 
So there's almost a we're forced

1520
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:08,440
into it position, right? 
And so they actually decided, 

1521
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:10,440
all right, we need to take up 
the imperial burden. 

1522
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:12,000
And they started playing to win,
right? 

1523
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:15,000
And all kinds of institutions, 
for example, FDR set up, the UN 

1524
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:17,960
is something where nominally 
every country gets a vote, but 

1525
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,720
the Security Council actually 
has a veto and it's in New York,

1526
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:23,240
so they can bug the entire UN 
headquarters. 

1527
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,479
So the US actually had the veto 
over the veto over the veto, 

1528
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,120
right. 
Many kinds of things like that. 

1529
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:30,200
All these poster institutions 
that were set up that had the US

1530
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:33,399
at the center were how the 
global American empire was, was 

1531
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:35,600
set up and the US taxed the 
whole world. 

1532
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:39,840
The business model of the US was
the dollar, because anytime 

1533
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,520
anybody's using either the 
dollar directly overseas or U.S.

1534
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:45,319
financial asset usually needed 
the dollar to buy into that and 

1535
01:08:45,319 --> 01:08:47,479
so on. 
So that was their mechanism 

1536
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,279
where global dollar inflation is
global taxation. 

1537
01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:53,479
The whole world pays tribute to 
America, that whole business. 

1538
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,520
This model is now reaching end 
of life because the main 2 

1539
01:08:56,520 --> 01:09:00,200
competitors to USD are CCP and 
BTC, right? 

1540
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:01,080
China and the Internet. 
Right. 

1541
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:03,439
But I guess that's why they're 
trying to push stable coins the 

1542
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:04,200
way that they are. 
Right. 

1543
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:07,279
So it's interesting because this
is something where so let's talk

1544
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:09,960
stable coins, right. 
So a new bill is being passed in

1545
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:11,880
the genius. 
Yeah, and you know, obviously I 

1546
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:13,800
was very, you know, like I, I 
know a lot of stable coins. 

1547
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:15,359
It's. 
Also interesting that Hong Kong 

1548
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:17,560
also passes actually a month 
before, right? 

1549
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:19,479
Yes, Which is you? 
Know, so that's interesting. 

1550
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:20,479
So tell me about that. 
Go ahead. 

1551
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,560
Yeah. 
So, so before the Genius Act 

1552
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,960
actually came out, and it's 
actually one that we're quite 

1553
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,960
involved in, our ledge code, 
which is the equivalent of our 

1554
01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:30,840
parliament basically passed the 
Hong Kong stable coin bill, 

1555
01:09:31,399 --> 01:09:34,080
allowing the HKMA, which is a 
central bank, to basically start

1556
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:38,359
issuing sort of stable coin 
licenses starting from August 

1557
01:09:38,359 --> 01:09:39,960
1st. 
So the applications are going to

1558
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:41,479
start basically next week, 
right? 

1559
01:09:42,399 --> 01:09:43,960
And so it's a little bit of a 
head, right? 

1560
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:45,960
But, but this was already in the
works for a while. 

1561
01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:49,240
And in fact, we ourselves, 
together with Standard Chartered

1562
01:09:49,240 --> 01:09:52,319
and Homeland Telecom are part of
three companies that have been 

1563
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:55,600
involved in a sandbox 
essentially trial period for for

1564
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:58,440
stablecoin. 
And of course, you know, what's 

1565
01:09:58,440 --> 01:10:00,960
also interesting is China's 
response to it was that they're 

1566
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:03,800
looking what's happening in the 
US and they recognize that since

1567
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:05,840
it's not China, it's going to 
start buying all these T-bills 

1568
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:08,360
and it's going to be stable 
coins. 

1569
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,640
And they also realized that the 
dollar Hegel money, the stable 

1570
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:13,560
one strategy is around extending
dollar Hegel money. 

1571
01:10:13,960 --> 01:10:16,320
And so what's, you know, 
basically the response to this 

1572
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:18,240
one. 
And Hong Kong has always been 

1573
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:21,520
the financial Center for China 
for this type of stuff. 

1574
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,200
Frankly, one of the reasons why 
the US is, you know, I'm not 

1575
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:26,680
sure if you, if you remember 
this, but during the time of the

1576
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,920
protests, Hong Kong basically 
lost its special status with the

1577
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,880
US on account of, you know, 
freedom and so on. 

1578
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:36,080
But really, I, I think the, the 
undertone was really around 

1579
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:40,360
choking off essentially ideally 
1 of China's main financial 

1580
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:42,160
strongholds, which is Hong Kong,
right? 

1581
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,880
But anyway, China itself also, 
what's interesting to me is 

1582
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:49,520
around that time, a lot of 
people thought China was just 

1583
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,560
going to say, OK, Hong Kong's 
going to be the fishing village 

1584
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:54,000
now and we're just going to 
build up Shenzhen, right? 

1585
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:58,480
But interestingly, China decided
to like sort of rebuild. 

1586
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:00,600
Hong Kong, in fact, double down 
on it, Yeah, and it's because 

1587
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,560
Hong Kong is necessary. 
So tell me about that, because 

1588
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:04,640
that's an angle that was 
interesting. 

1589
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,960
Well, OK, so the reason, the 
model for so this is really 

1590
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:11,080
important because Hong Kong 
plays its role because it has 

1591
01:11:11,120 --> 01:11:13,800
laws and rules that are not all 
the same as in China, right? 

1592
01:11:14,440 --> 01:11:15,720
And it's actually also one 
country. 

1593
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,240
Two systems. 
The one country, 2 systems, it's

1594
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:18,640
also the way which global trade 
can match. 

1595
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,680
So if you're European or 
American for that matter, you'd 

1596
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:22,480
much rather work on something 
that's based on English common 

1597
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:24,680
law rather than basically that's
based on Chinese law. 

1598
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,360
It's also English as the 
official legal language as well,

1599
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,760
which is the trade and frankly, 
the Internet, right? 

1600
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:34,160
So Hong Kong plays an incredibly
important role for this, right? 

1601
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:39,640
And if you think about sort of 
even, especially now, right, if 

1602
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,920
you think about it, you could 
say a lot of people were saying,

1603
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,520
well, there's a shipping port, 
which is probably true, and 

1604
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:45,800
Guangzhou is going to be bigger.
Yeah. 

1605
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:47,200
And it's just literally across 
the border. 

1606
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:51,400
But when it comes to legal 
contracting and rights, and also

1607
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:55,240
all the, all the wealthy Chinese
people actually want to live in 

1608
01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:58,040
Hong Kong and send their kids to
Hong Kong schools, right, while 

1609
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:02,760
they work in China. 
So Hong Kong has a special sort 

1610
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:05,040
of role around that. 
And I think China recognizes 

1611
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:06,680
it's important. 
You know, what's interesting is 

1612
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,880
I also understand that they use 
Macau in a similar way. 

1613
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:12,720
It's much smaller, but they use 
it not just for the gambling, 

1614
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:15,680
but it's actually a Lucifone 
like Brazil and all the 

1615
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:17,880
Portugues, especially Brazil, 
which China is an important 

1616
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,720
relationship with the the the 
Portuguese speaking Lucifund 

1617
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,920
countries have the forum with 
China in Macau. 

1618
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,000
Yeah. 
So that is for Portuguese what 

1619
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,760
Hong Kong is for English or. 
Something yeah, I think the the 

1620
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,200
the big thing I think this is 
where I think a lot of people in

1621
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:36,040
the West misunderstand China, at
least from our perspectives, is 

1622
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:40,160
that China's number one agenda 
is of course they want to have 

1623
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,200
they want to have power, but 
they need stability in that 

1624
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:45,560
country. 
They're most worried about what 

1625
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,120
happens. 
So what's the reason that if you

1626
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:51,320
think about where is 
particularly American media 

1627
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:56,080
politics poking Hong Kong and 
Xinjiang, right And what is the 

1628
01:12:56,760 --> 01:12:58,520
thing about those two places 
different about the rest of 

1629
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:00,480
China? 
Well, Hong Kong is in 

1630
01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:03,600
particularly a, you could call 
it multicultural. 

1631
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,280
It's more more like, say 
Westernized, so can appear a 

1632
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,640
little bit of a weak spot, 
although at this point I would 

1633
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:10,800
say it's it's very much sort of 
cleared up. 

1634
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,440
And then Xinjiang, which is 
basically 99% Muslim, right? 

1635
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,400
And it's homogeneous Muslim. 
So if you want to poke the bear 

1636
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:19,680
somewhere, this would seem to be
its weakest spot, right? 

1637
01:13:20,440 --> 01:13:22,800
And so all of the stuff that you
see in media and discussion 

1638
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,360
around that is actually really 
trying to sort of find ways to 

1639
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:26,760
sort of feel poke. 
Yeah, poke, right. 

1640
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:31,080
And, and just to close this 
thought, the important thing for

1641
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:32,920
China is harmony within it's own
country. 

1642
01:13:32,920 --> 01:13:35,560
Everything is built around it. 
So, so the one thing that would 

1643
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:37,280
not happen in America, for 
instance, is that, you know, 

1644
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:40,920
when, when, when she talked 
about common prosperity, right? 

1645
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:44,040
One of the things that he took 
down was private tutoring, 

1646
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:46,720
right? 
So, so, so from a Western 

1647
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:48,960
perspective, you're like, you 
just killed an entire industry. 

1648
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,960
That's bad, you know, you know, 
and this is the risk of, you 

1649
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:53,880
know, centralization. 
But he did it. 

1650
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:56,800
Or they did it because they 
realized that this type of 

1651
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:58,760
tutoring was only available to 
the wealthy. 

1652
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:01,600
It was creating a much more 
bifurcated society. 

1653
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,000
Yeah, but they re establish. 
It though, yeah, but not in the 

1654
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,840
same construct, right? 
And more importantly, also they 

1655
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:09,320
wanted to equalize education. 
Also, they were very worried 

1656
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:12,840
about the wealth inequality 
because it was the instability 

1657
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:14,760
that they were more worried 
about what's happening in China 

1658
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:16,640
than specifically the dynamics 
around the. 

1659
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:20,640
World, right, right. 
So The thing is, you ultimately 

1660
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:22,720
have to judge something by the 
outcome, right? 

1661
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:27,680
And if you see Chinese cities 
and Chinese streets, they're 

1662
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:32,000
beautiful and clean and they're 
aesthetically really amazing and

1663
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,960
so on and so forth. 
So that there's obviously some 

1664
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:36,920
huge success there for, you 
know, a billion people. 

1665
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,280
There are manufacturing powers, 
other countries that complain 

1666
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:42,200
about overproduction. 
You can't like it's something 

1667
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:45,920
where, oh what, they're making 
it too fast and too cheap or 

1668
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:47,320
whatever. 
It's like you have to get good, 

1669
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:49,360
right? 
So there's a lot of things that 

1670
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:51,960
China's done where you just have
to respect it and you have to 

1671
01:14:52,440 --> 01:14:53,720
like look at all the graphs and 
so on. 

1672
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:58,320
I would say that my view is 
China might be good for the 

1673
01:14:58,320 --> 01:14:59,920
most, but the Internet is good 
for the best. 

1674
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,600
So. 
And so the reason is, I don't 

1675
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:03,400
disagree with that. 
Yeah. 

1676
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:08,520
Because also the construct of 
this pendulum shift between sort

1677
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:11,320
of, let's call it freedom and 
you can call absolute freedom of

1678
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:15,040
form of anarchy and then safety 
and security and then to the 

1679
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:16,160
trade of our safety and 
security. 

1680
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:17,840
American anarchy and Chinese. 
Control, right? 

1681
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:20,880
There's something in between. 
And there are people who prefer 

1682
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,040
one or the other. 
So you will see people in China,

1683
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:25,640
and this is I think where the 
West often couldn't understand 

1684
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:28,120
why do you like this? 
Because I would never accept to 

1685
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:30,520
live in this type of 
environment, but the safety and 

1686
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,680
stability of not having to worry
about possibly getting shot. 

1687
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:34,640
In the street? 
Yeah, exactly. 

1688
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,320
What that kind of stuff, of 
course, and the fact that, yes, 

1689
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:40,360
there is much more surveillance,
but at the same time, you know, 

1690
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:41,520
you have much more security, 
right? 

1691
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:43,600
And some people say I want 
surveillance, but I don't want 

1692
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:45,280
it quite that way. 
So maybe Hong Kong is a better 

1693
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:46,560
compromise, some other place, 
whatever. 

1694
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:48,440
So there'll be lots of things 
that are going to compromise. 

1695
01:15:48,440 --> 01:15:49,080
Exactly. 
Yeah. 

1696
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:51,840
So, but there is a penalty you 
can't have, you can't have this 

1697
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,120
idea that you have complete 
absolute safety without the fact

1698
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:56,280
that you have also high degree 
of surveillance and. 

1699
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:58,240
Control, yes, that's right. 
Well, well, so I think the 

1700
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:01,640
question is you're absolutely 
right that those are two points 

1701
01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,160
on extremely on the spectrum. 
And I think you're also right 

1702
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:08,600
that many Democrats are going to
opt for Chinese control, like I 

1703
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:10,080
said, basically in the 20th 
century. 

1704
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,600
The one thing that's not very 
well understood is. 

1705
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:15,640
Maybe, But do you think it's 
because they don't really 

1706
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:17,400
understand it? 
So for instance, one thing that 

1707
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:20,520
I've noticed so much to yeah, 
shock is, you know, the 

1708
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:24,320
conversations around, you know, 
the populism of Marx that is 

1709
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:26,720
emerging in, in, in, in the 
American dialogue. 

1710
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:27,800
As well. 
There's actually, I should be, I

1711
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:30,200
should be clear. 
There's the Luigi, left, right, 

1712
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:32,120
which is just violent 
anarchists. 

1713
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:33,160
Yeah, I actually put it like 
this. 

1714
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:38,240
You know, many Democrats have 
replaced GODOGOV like, they've 

1715
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:40,440
like, the state has become their
God, right? 

1716
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:46,160
And so because of that, like 
when they lost control of the 

1717
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:49,600
American state to Trump the 
second time, that shattered 

1718
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,000
Democrats faith in what they 
thought of as democracy in the 

1719
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:53,760
American state. 
Because all of their rituals, 

1720
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:56,760
everything is organized around 
the American state, handing out 

1721
01:16:56,760 --> 01:17:01,280
money to Democrat NGOs or 
funding to Democrats or 

1722
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,280
professors at universities or 
gives leaks to Democrats or 

1723
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:06,880
journalists like the state is 
their central organizing 

1724
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:09,040
principle. 
Like Democrats ran this ad a 

1725
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:11,400
while back, which is government 
is the only thing we all belong 

1726
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,640
to, right? 
Literally as that's the sharing 

1727
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:18,120
kind of thing for them, right? 
So replace GOVGODGOV, right? 

1728
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:20,880
And this is similar by the way, 
Carl Schmidt has written the 

1729
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:23,320
book called Political Theology. 
Or you know when the Soviet 

1730
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:25,280
Union failed they called it the 
God that failed, right? 

1731
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:30,520
The point is these state based 
ideologies are a replacement for

1732
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:32,680
God in many ways. 
Many different kinds of factions

1733
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:36,040
have have talked about that. 
OK, so their God just died. 

1734
01:17:36,240 --> 01:17:38,680
What is the answer? 
1 answer is some of the left, 

1735
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:41,880
some of the Democrats go to the 
Luigi left, violent anarchism. 

1736
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:45,160
They believe in nothing, kill 
everyone, and other factions are

1737
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:47,360
basically like, OK, well, what 
is the most powerful state 

1738
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:48,960
today? 
If we don't have DC, then we 

1739
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:50,640
have XI. 
So I'll just fold into China. 

1740
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,240
And the way of thinking about 
that is think about Venezuela or

1741
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:56,120
lots of these other countries 
that have melted down. 

1742
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:58,960
They are basically propped up 
with Chinese support, right? 

1743
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:02,840
And one way to think about it is
China is the monkey's paw 

1744
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:04,520
opposite of the neocons and 
neoliberals. 

1745
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:07,520
China will trade with 
kleptocratic Venezuela or 

1746
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:09,920
meritocratic Singapore. 
It'll trade with Christian 

1747
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:13,640
Orthodox Russia or, you know, 
fundamentalist Iran, right? 

1748
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,720
China doesn't care what that 
country does internally so long 

1749
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:18,880
as that country doesn't quote 
interfere in China's internal 

1750
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:20,720
affairs. 
This is the exact opposite of 

1751
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,320
the neo con or neo Lib who wants
to bomb every country into 

1752
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:26,920
democracy, right? 
But it's not like the exact 

1753
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:30,240
opposite isn't necessarily good 
because the problem is China's 

1754
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:35,280
developed a surveillance stack. 
And you know, whole set like 1.4

1755
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:38,600
billion Chinese people are very 
smart and they're really clever 

1756
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:40,120
and they work around all kinds 
of things. 

1757
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:41,880
You know, the mountains are high
emperors far away. 

1758
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,080
It's a very, very clever, 
especially southern Chinese 

1759
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:46,880
people in, in, in capitalism and
entrepreneur, right. 

1760
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:49,760
And so historically, the balance
necessity by necessity. 

1761
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:51,320
Southern Chinese were the 
persecuted ones. 

1762
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:52,120
That's right. 
That's right. 

1763
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:55,480
And so, so, you know, 
historically that balance was a 

1764
01:18:55,480 --> 01:18:57,640
very pragmatic balance. 
We didn't say that law has 

1765
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,200
limited the state. 
It said practical realities 

1766
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:01,840
limit the state. 
Yes, they have total root 

1767
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,760
control, but they don't have the
ability to surveil everything at

1768
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:06,160
all times. 
They can monitor. 

1769
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:07,920
So I can just do what I want. 
You know, the state can do it as

1770
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:08,480
well, right? 
Fine. 

1771
01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:11,480
Very, very practical balance of 
power as opposed to the European

1772
01:19:11,480 --> 01:19:13,280
balance of all that laws and 
quoting things. 

1773
01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:14,960
OK, fine. 
Which has its own merits, which 

1774
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:18,640
is different. 
My, my view is that stack which 

1775
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:22,320
is being developed in China, if 
it can kind of lock down China, 

1776
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:24,440
it can absolutely lock down 
Venezuela. 

1777
01:19:24,440 --> 01:19:27,240
It can lock down every kind of 
country because it was debugged 

1778
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:30,360
on 1.4 billion Chinese, one of 
the smartest, like hardest 

1779
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:33,360
working, you know, like most 
entrepreneurial cultures around 

1780
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:35,920
at that scale, it'll work to 
lock down just about any 

1781
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:38,320
country, right? 
And that's a stack that they're 

1782
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:39,920
selling. 
And in fact, when, when 

1783
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,800
countries are buying weapons or 
or security stuff, they actually

1784
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:44,920
buy the missiles and stuff from 
America because they're pointed 

1785
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:47,840
out, but they buy the security 
stack stuff from China because 

1786
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,520
it's pointed in right. 
But I mean, so now to be clear, 

1787
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:52,560
I'm, I'm, I'm saying this in a 
beyond good and evil. 

1788
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:54,480
Sure, right. 
Like I'm just observing, you 

1789
01:19:54,480 --> 01:19:57,120
know, because I think, let me, 
let me also argue your point for

1790
01:19:57,120 --> 01:20:00,280
a second. 
Yeah, the, the dumb V1, let's 

1791
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:05,200
say V1V2V3, the dumb V1 American
way of thinking about China or a

1792
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:08,800
lot of people is like the 
Chinese Communist Party and you 

1793
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:12,200
know, you know, and they, they 
actually think they're still 

1794
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,640
Maoist or they're still poor or 
it's all slavery. 

1795
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:16,080
There's actually much more 
capitalist than. 

1796
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:17,520
Most yes, exactly. 
That's right. 

1797
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:19,600
So so they they have a just a 
really weird outing. 

1798
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:23,360
Part of it is there's been very 
few depictions of what China 

1799
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:25,880
actually is in American media. 
I think it was. 

1800
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:26,760
Haven't been to China? 
Well. 

1801
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:27,920
That's right. 
That's what I mean. 

1802
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:29,560
China's invisible, if you like. 
Yeah, right. 

1803
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:32,320
Exactly. 
And so the only non Western 

1804
01:20:32,320 --> 01:20:34,560
society that I've seen that's 
being depicted as prosperous 

1805
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:38,800
recently was Singapore and Crazy
Rich Asians, right. 

1806
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:40,360
And that's the exception that 
proves the rule, right? 

1807
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:42,520
Because Singapore is still kind 
of within the Western camp or 

1808
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:44,680
we're happy, right. 
But because of that, and the 

1809
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,040
reason is Hollywood didn't want 
to make movies that show other 

1810
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,520
people overseas having a good 
time and and leveling up because

1811
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:52,920
of course that would be, you 
know, they'll not do well in 

1812
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:55,080
their screening, in their focus 
group testing who want to see 

1813
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:57,120
Chinese people doing well. 
If you're an American, they're 

1814
01:20:57,160 --> 01:20:59,960
envious or mad or OK, fine. 
So because of that, though, they

1815
01:20:59,960 --> 01:21:03,280
have just a huge unreality. 
The V1 view of China, like they 

1816
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:04,680
want to conquer the world and so
on. 

1817
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:07,360
When China's been very insular 
historically that that's like 

1818
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:09,520
dumb. 
OK, then the V2 view, however, 

1819
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:11,120
let me quote it to say why I 
disagree with it. 

1820
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:14,320
The V2 view is someone like, 
let's say Arno Bertrand or what 

1821
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:16,360
have you on Twitter. 
If you've seen his post or you 

1822
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:19,240
know, he's like a or Carl Za or 
something like that, they'll 

1823
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:20,520
make an argument, which is as 
follows. 

1824
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,920
They'll say, and some of them 
are Chinese nationalists, some 

1825
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:24,440
of them are just really 
alienated Westerners. 

1826
01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:27,640
But they say something like for 
the last 40 years, China has not

1827
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:29,960
invaded any country. 
They've built up Africa while 

1828
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:31,200
America's blown up to the Middle
East. 

1829
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,560
They had a peaceful rise. 
They brought all these people 

1830
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:34,800
out of poverty. 
They built all these amazing 

1831
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:37,280
cities. 
They've just, you know, been 

1832
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:38,960
playing defense. 
They didn't start the trade war.

1833
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:41,640
There's playing defense. 
And what is their great crime to

1834
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:43,920
ship lots of stuff cheap. 
Wow, that's so bad. 

1835
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:46,400
And, you know, they just don't 
want the same anarchy in their 

1836
01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:49,200
country like that the US has 
brought everywhere else. 

1837
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:51,680
So that's why they don't want 
American influence and China 

1838
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:54,240
should be able to develop in its
own way without alien Western 

1839
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:57,400
and software and so on, and even
blocking social media. 

1840
01:21:57,400 --> 01:21:59,040
We'll look at what social media 
has done to the West. 

1841
01:21:59,440 --> 01:22:00,960
Maybe they made the right 
decision and so on, so forth. 

1842
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:03,800
This is the steel man of the V2 
right now. 

1843
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:08,760
The V3 would be granting V1 and 
V2 for a second and say, OK, so 

1844
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:13,680
now what happens when like, you 
know, the exports really rise 

1845
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:15,920
even further, right? 
So you have a Chinese self 

1846
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:19,040
driving car or phone or drone or
center everywhere, right? 

1847
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:22,640
Well, all of those things have 
essentially like when you sell a

1848
01:22:22,640 --> 01:22:25,280
Chinese chair, it's 
decentralized, there's no 

1849
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:28,360
software connecting it back. 
But when you sell any kind of 

1850
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:32,320
IoT enabled, AI enabled device, 
it can be shut down, controlled,

1851
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:33,880
surveilled, whatever by a 
central server. 

1852
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:35,960
It's got a string, a digital 
string attached to it, right? 

1853
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:41,520
And the interpretation of what 
interferes in China's internal 

1854
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:45,600
affairs rises as Chinese trade 
just absolutely dominates. 

1855
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:48,960
And there's not just a Chinese 
chair or a desk or a table, but 

1856
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:50,960
it's a Chinese car and a drone 
and a phone. 

1857
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:52,960
They essentially have root 
control not just over China, but

1858
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,200
the whole world. 
Like the exporting of goods 

1859
01:22:55,200 --> 01:22:58,120
carries with it software. 
That's, that's like the big 

1860
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:00,440
thing, right? 
So it gives root control because

1861
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:02,080
payments are in WeChat and so on
and so forth. 

1862
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:05,640
So it starts extending that 
sphere in many, many places. 

1863
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:08,400
That's one. 
The second thing is also that 

1864
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:13,240
the stack that they're selling 
to governments, they are 

1865
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:14,720
recognizing the government as 
legit. 

1866
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:17,440
Go ahead. 
No, no, I appreciate that. 

1867
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:22,160
I think to me, I think the I 
would let's take the Western and

1868
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:24,880
Asian lens perspective. 
You know, I think the Western 

1869
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:26,640
lens is much more conflict 
oriented. 

1870
01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:27,920
Yes, by. 
Culture, of course. 

1871
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:30,400
And so they take the lens of 
everything must be a conflict, 

1872
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:33,760
yes, but when you do business in
Asia, in your country. 

1873
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:35,520
Is win win is possible? 
Yeah, but also the whole 

1874
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:36,720
perspective at. 
Least this century. 

1875
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:39,560
Last century is crazy, yes. 
OK, but but last century was 

1876
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:41,680
also subject to, I mean, at the 
end of the day, it was invasions

1877
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:44,520
and colonizations and so forth. 
And also when you think about 

1878
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:46,720
sort of China's takeover, even 
the Qing dynasty, technically 

1879
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,280
they were invaders from the 
north right there. 

1880
01:23:49,320 --> 01:23:53,120
The, there is a root culture, I 
would say in Asian culture and 

1881
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:56,560
in very Chinese culture, which, 
you know, I, I hesitate to say 

1882
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:58,120
it's peaceful, but it's about 
order. 

1883
01:23:58,120 --> 01:23:59,560
Maybe it's the right word order.
That's right. 

1884
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:02,920
And so the whole confusion sort 
of values, what system that 

1885
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:05,480
basically generations follow. 
And there's something deeply 

1886
01:24:05,480 --> 01:24:08,240
embedded, absolutely, which when
you think about the history of 

1887
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:11,040
Europe, which in a way it was 
Europe and colonizers that came 

1888
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,760
to America, their history was 
much more violent by necessity, 

1889
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:16,880
right? 
I mean, you had the Taiping 

1890
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:18,720
Rebellion, you had a lot of 
crazy wars, you had warlord 

1891
01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:19,720
error, you had all kinds of 
things. 

1892
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:22,360
Happen yes but the Taiping 
rebellion I mean that also was 

1893
01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:25,560
initiated in in in by 
Christianity yes exactly by 

1894
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:28,720
external forces sure sure right 
sure and of course you know 

1895
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:30,920
China had to sort of you know 
basically three Kingdom wars and

1896
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:33,720
that kind of stuff so so so 
China went through those 

1897
01:24:34,200 --> 01:24:37,840
absolutely debilitating wars 
much earlier and as a result 

1898
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:41,520
this fear of disharmony and this
fear of absolutely absolutely 

1899
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,080
embedded in its food culture 
which. 

1900
01:24:43,080 --> 01:24:49,400
I think to different shape in 
the West, but as a result, and I

1901
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:52,240
think this is the pro and the 
con is this confrontational 

1902
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:55,040
culture also allows you to do 
business in a confrontational 

1903
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:56,760
way and yet not take it as 
personal. 

1904
01:24:56,880 --> 01:25:00,440
Yes, which here for instance, in
Asia, if you're confrontational 

1905
01:25:00,440 --> 01:25:02,600
in business, you're actually 
personal as well, right? 

1906
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:03,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You know the whole face thing, 

1907
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:05,640
right, right. 
So there are dimensions that are

1908
01:25:05,640 --> 01:25:07,720
different that are deeply 
embedded culturally. 

1909
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,680
And this is, by the way, also 
why I think that I think the 

1910
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:13,480
Chinese way works within China. 
Yeah. 

1911
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:16,280
But I don't know that it exports
super well to America because 

1912
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:19,760
the, you know, you can't. 
I think it's very difficult to 

1913
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:24,640
sort of remove a cultural DNA. 
I mean, Mao has tried it with 

1914
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:27,080
the Cultural Revolution, and he 
has completely failed. 

1915
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:29,160
Yes, he's did it, unfortunately.
Right. 

1916
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:29,920
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1917
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:33,080
Well, so to that point, the way 
I kind of think about that is 

1918
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,080
many like, you know, great 
civilizations have a deep 

1919
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:38,280
culture thing which they 
actually take seriously. 

1920
01:25:38,280 --> 01:25:41,040
So for America, everybody 
unironically believes in 

1921
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:43,800
freedom. 
Other countries like think, you 

1922
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:46,400
know, they think it's like fake 
or they they roll their eyes. 

1923
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:48,600
But Americans unironically bring
absolutely. 

1924
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:51,400
And the Chinese, I think 
unironically believe in harmony 

1925
01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:53,600
like this. 
So for a certain kind of 

1926
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:55,200
American. 
Passes down family to family. 

1927
01:25:55,280 --> 01:25:56,000
That's right. 
Exactly. 

1928
01:25:56,040 --> 01:25:57,760
So for a certain kind of 
American, they would say, oh, 

1929
01:25:57,760 --> 01:25:59,520
harmony. 
Oh, Aaron's all brainwashed. 

1930
01:25:59,520 --> 01:26:01,200
And no, the Chinese actually 
mean harmony. 

1931
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:04,680
Like people actually 
cooperating, singing unison, 

1932
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:07,440
working together, you know, and 
there's like that game. 

1933
01:26:07,440 --> 01:26:10,640
There's a collective spirit 
which can be viewed negatively 

1934
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:11,720
and positive. 
Yes, exactly. 

1935
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:13,760
That's right. 
So now the downside of it is 

1936
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:15,880
everybody's working together in 
the wrong direction, lemmings 

1937
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:18,520
off a Cliff or whatever, right? 
The good side of it is the 

1938
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:20,880
whole, you know, thing comes 
together and you can build this.

1939
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:23,800
And I would argue the Chinese 
antidote has been education. 

1940
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:25,120
Interesting. 
Go. 

1941
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:27,200
Ahead So you know how maybe 
people used to have this 

1942
01:26:27,200 --> 01:26:29,880
parallel around India and China 
back in the 60s and 70s. 

1943
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:31,920
And then especially with the 
Cultural Revolution, everyone 

1944
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:33,440
basically thought of China being
set back. 

1945
01:26:33,440 --> 01:26:36,160
But if you look at the economic 
charts, even during the Cultural

1946
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:39,360
Revolution and with, you know, 
Mao's purges and so on, China 

1947
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:41,280
continued to rise in terms of 
economics. 

1948
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:44,440
It wasn't that the miracle of 
China just happened in the Deng 

1949
01:26:44,440 --> 01:26:46,280
Xiaoping came in and just 
happened in the 70s. 

1950
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:49,600
What happened it it it was 
already the underpinning was 

1951
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:53,400
there because Chinese were more 
educated on mass than India as a

1952
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:54,600
parallel. 
Well, India has always been a 

1953
01:26:54,600 --> 01:26:56,920
more elite focused country and 
also. 

1954
01:26:57,040 --> 01:27:00,680
The the, the, the, the caste 
system, as well as the fact that

1955
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:03,640
India was much more fragmented 
in terms of language as it was 

1956
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:05,600
in China. 
Frankly speaking, you know, it's

1957
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:07,880
like predominantly Han Chinese. 
I I think, I think it's go. 

1958
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,440
Ahead but but the but the main 
differentiated between the two 

1959
01:27:10,600 --> 01:27:13,800
was that one was broadly getting
more and more educated and was 

1960
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:16,520
already starting at a higher 
educated level which meant that 

1961
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:21,040
the balance of power may appear 
to be not as sort of brainwashed

1962
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,280
and as hey let's all go this 
direction because we're all just

1963
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:26,000
lemmings because actually 
Chinese people don't operate 

1964
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,560
this way because of their 
education and so you'll. 

1965
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:30,680
Find during the Cultural 
Revolution and during the great 

1966
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:33,960
like for 30 years they did have 
a bad. 

1967
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:37,440
I mean, it was, it was purges 
and stuff like this and elites 

1968
01:27:37,440 --> 01:27:40,480
got killed. 
But you had you had a lot of the

1969
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:42,920
education levels didn't decline 
as a result, right? 

1970
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:46,320
Well, so literacy is always. 
So literacy continue to 

1971
01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:47,360
increase. 
And if you look at the charts, 

1972
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:49,560
which I don't have on hand, 
yeah, you'll, you'll notice that

1973
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:53,040
Chinese literacy and education 
continue to rise even during the

1974
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:54,680
Cultural Revolution, which is 
interesting. 

1975
01:27:54,800 --> 01:27:58,200
Yeah, so, so, So first of all, 
The thing is my view is there's 

1976
01:27:58,200 --> 01:28:00,720
many, many things, unless you 
understand what China does 

1977
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:04,480
really well, OK, you can't, you 
know, so and I think so I would,

1978
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:07,440
I would probably argue with you 
more about like I really do 

1979
01:28:07,440 --> 01:28:10,640
think Deng Xiaoping taking over 
from Mao was a discontinuous 

1980
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:12,280
event, like of course, and 
throwing the king of the 

1981
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:13,600
foreign. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1982
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:15,440
Right, right. 
So I don't think China, you 

1983
01:28:15,440 --> 01:28:17,640
know, like Mao's succession was 
like Hogwell thing. 

1984
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:19,000
I'm probably mispronouncing that
right. 

1985
01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:22,400
And he was he was basically like
a communist and whatever like a 

1986
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:25,240
real communist and dung he was 
purged 3 times because he's a 

1987
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:26,760
capitalist rotor. 
I want to take it to the right, 

1988
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:31,040
but but leaving that aside for 
now on the India point, you 

1989
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:35,600
know, my view is China play, 
I've said this before, basically

1990
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:38,200
China plays perhaps the world's 
best home game, but India plays 

1991
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:41,640
a very strong awake game, right?
So Indians abroad do well 

1992
01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:45,560
because all of that complexity 
and diversity in language stuff 

1993
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:49,000
at home means that they are more
comfortable. 

1994
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:50,680
OK, quickly getting the lay of 
land. 

1995
01:28:50,680 --> 01:28:52,480
OK, so this is this and this is 
that, right? 

1996
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:56,200
And so they're very 
complementary set of skills 

1997
01:28:56,480 --> 01:29:02,480
where so in some ways the 
Chinese are the new Germans and 

1998
01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:04,280
Indians are like the new 
Israelis or the new Jewish 

1999
01:29:04,280 --> 01:29:06,320
community, right. 
Like that's one way macro of 

2000
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:07,120
thinking about it. 
Let me. 

2001
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:09,240
Give the analysis, although the 
Chinese diaspora isn't doing too

2002
01:29:09,240 --> 01:29:11,360
badly either, of course. 
Of course, that's right. 

2003
01:29:11,440 --> 01:29:12,720
India at home. 
India at home is rising. 

2004
01:29:13,160 --> 01:29:16,960
But it's like India is like A10 
abroad and like a 7 at home and 

2005
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:19,800
China is like a 10 at home and 
like A7 abroad, very roughly 

2006
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:22,240
something like that, right? 
And. 

2007
01:29:22,480 --> 01:29:24,400
But it was reversed before. 
Oh, was it Go? 

2008
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:27,760
Ahead, the reason why is that a 
lot of the growth that also 

2009
01:29:27,760 --> 01:29:29,720
happened in China was, you know,
what we described as sea 

2010
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:31,880
turtles. 
Yeah, the ones going back to. 

2011
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:33,280
China coming back to China 
right, that's right. 

2012
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,280
And and that's actually also a 
very strong indicator about 

2013
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:38,520
where a country's going when 
people are coming back. 

2014
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:39,400
Coming back, right. 
Yes. 

2015
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:41,560
By the way, that's also why 
we're so bullish in places like 

2016
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:44,160
Saudi Arabia, because Saudi is 
seeing the same effect where 

2017
01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:45,920
people used to leave and now 
they're all coming back. 

2018
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:47,720
Totally. 
Educator brought Hunt says 

2019
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:49,000
something. 
And I actually think, by the 

2020
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:50,960
way, I think Indians are going 
to have a very tough time over 

2021
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:54,840
the next 10 years because I 
think being the global swing 

2022
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:57,440
vote and so on. 
Now, like, for example, both the

2023
01:29:57,560 --> 01:29:59,080
US and China are funding 
Pakistan. 

2024
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:00,600
Yes. 
You know, like even though the 

2025
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:02,480
US and China fight 100 things, 
they cooperate in Pakistan to 

2026
01:30:02,480 --> 01:30:06,320
beat up India, right? 
And you know, like basically 

2027
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:09,400
being in both bricks, but also 
in the Quad, like India's had it

2028
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:13,360
both ways. 
And so India's got a strategic 

2029
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:15,800
both India and Indians, the 
global diaspora are going to 

2030
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:17,920
have a they're going to have to 
basically prove themselves over 

2031
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,040
the next 10 years the way that 
China proved itself for the last

2032
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:22,800
10 years. 
But I think of China is a state,

2033
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:26,800
Indians are a network, like in 
the sense of China's, you know, 

2034
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:29,600
a physical location with borders
and so on and so forth. 

2035
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:33,560
And 97% of people of Han Chinese
descent are underneath that. 

2036
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:36,320
You know, the nation, the state,
the network are one vertically 

2037
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:38,880
integrated whole like Apple, you
know, like vertically integrated

2038
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:41,000
where you've got a great 
firewall, the Chinese language 

2039
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,720
apps, you've got the party 
state, and you've got the people

2040
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:45,840
and the 5000 years of, you know,
culture, right? 

2041
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:47,520
That's like 1 vertically rated 
thing. 

2042
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:51,400
And the diaspora is only like 2 
or 3%, whereas India actually 

2043
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:53,880
didn't even exist as a country 
until recently, right? 

2044
01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:57,960
India is actually more like the 
EU, where like the difference 

2045
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:00,600
between a Thummel and a Gujarati
is the biggest difference 

2046
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:02,680
between a Spaniard and a fin, 
right? 

2047
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:05,760
And so it's actually India is 
the most unified it's ever been 

2048
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:07,720
in its history. 
And it's actually doing 

2049
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:10,440
surprisingly well in some ways. 
Like, for example, in many 

2050
01:31:10,440 --> 01:31:13,680
graphs, China's far and away #1 
like on steel or nuclear, right?

2051
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:16,200
Then if you take China out of 
the graph, India is actually a 

2052
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:19,240
distant but real #2 right? 
And I'm not saying India catches

2053
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:22,120
China, but I am saying that 
India is actually much stronger 

2054
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:24,200
relative to the West than 
anybody realizes. 

2055
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:27,880
I agree with that. 
And so like insofar as like the 

2056
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:30,880
Anglophone world is having kind 
of a redistribution of power, 

2057
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:32,640
right? 
Like the capital move from 

2058
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:36,880
London to DCI think it's moving 
from DC to the Internet means 

2059
01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:39,440
are much larger percentage of 
the Internet than they are of 

2060
01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:41,600
America, right? 
And even more than London, 

2061
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:43,320
right. 
So the Anglophone world is kind 

2062
01:31:43,320 --> 01:31:46,120
of where when I say like China 
versus the Internet, you know, 

2063
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:48,360
versus doesn't always mean, you 
know, you could say China and 

2064
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:50,800
the Internet, right? 
And I don't think it's going to 

2065
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:54,200
be as it's not going to be tank 
for tank and plane for plane 

2066
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:55,880
like like the Americans and the 
Soviets. 

2067
01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:57,160
The European model is 
confrontational. 

2068
01:31:57,160 --> 01:32:00,040
In fact, I think to balance 
China. 

2069
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:01,800
And why do I say balance China, 
right? 

2070
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:04,840
Let me let me bring it back to a
different example. 

2071
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:07,480
Let's take 1991. the US had just
won the Cold War, right? 

2072
01:32:07,480 --> 01:32:10,280
It's completely dominant, right?
But it turned out that total 

2073
01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:13,040
victory was actually arguably 
bad for it, right? 

2074
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:16,680
Because over the next 30 years, 
with no balance in the world, it

2075
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,280
didn't just invade Iraq or no. 
Common ideology to attack, so to

2076
01:32:20,280 --> 01:32:20,920
speak. 
Yeah, exactly. 

2077
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:22,400
There's no balance. 
There's no so. 

2078
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:25,000
So what happened was first they 
fought each other #1 #2 is they 

2079
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:27,880
blow up all these countries #3 
they printed all this money #4 

2080
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:30,720
somehow over 30 years, they, 
they squandered the most 

2081
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:32,080
advantageous position in human 
history. 

2082
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:33,480
They squandered it really, 
really fast. 

2083
01:32:33,480 --> 01:32:37,920
Right. 
And what, what happened was 

2084
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:41,080
actually having a completely 
unlimited power to go and blow 

2085
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:44,000
up everything and and print 
everything and and so on and so 

2086
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:45,720
forth. 
It turned out to be bad for 

2087
01:32:45,720 --> 01:32:47,480
them. 
It's like somebody who inherited

2088
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:49,960
billions of dollars, like we 
were talking earlier about, like

2089
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:52,200
you just mentioned the, the 
phrase generational wealth, 

2090
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:54,720
which we will hear. 
I'm not even sure that that 

2091
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:56,920
exists or is even good when it 
does exist. 

2092
01:32:57,200 --> 01:32:59,440
Because if people, you know, 
this movie, for example, called 

2093
01:32:59,440 --> 01:33:02,840
Born Rich about like a kid who 
inherits a Johnson and Johnson 

2094
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:04,600
fortune. 
And what happens is they become 

2095
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:07,960
almost like a communist because 
for them, wealth and effort, 

2096
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:10,320
we're not connected. 
Yeah, they they didn't earn it 

2097
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:11,520
as it. 
Were they didn't earn it right, 

2098
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:13,640
they inherited it. 
It is luck of the draw for them 

2099
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:16,000
right. 
So then they feel really guilty 

2100
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:19,600
about that and so they start to 
spend their money on like, you 

2101
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:23,720
know, communism, you know, type 
stuff and in thereby actually 

2102
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:26,360
pull up the ladder for others, 
right, because they kind of 

2103
01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:28,800
destroy market creation 
processes, but they do that to 

2104
01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:32,480
to absolve their guilt, but come
back to generation. 

2105
01:33:32,480 --> 01:33:36,520
Well, point point is the lack of
a balance for America, For 

2106
01:33:36,520 --> 01:33:38,480
example, think about West 
Germany versus Germany, which 

2107
01:33:38,480 --> 01:33:41,400
you know very well, right? 
During the Cold War, America 

2108
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:44,800
built up West Germany and and in
general with its flaws, the 

2109
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:46,880
American sectors were better 
than the Soviet sectors, for 

2110
01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:47,560
example. 
Question. 

2111
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:49,120
No question, right? 
No question. 

2112
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:51,320
Or like South Korea versus but. 
That's the difference about 

2113
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:53,600
state planned economies versus 
true. 

2114
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:55,480
True, true. 
But but South Korea versus North

2115
01:33:55,480 --> 01:33:58,880
Korea, West Germany versus 
Germany, you know, even Chile 

2116
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:01,920
versus Cuba, every place where 
the the capitalist and communist

2117
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:02,800
variety. 
OK, fine. 

2118
01:34:03,320 --> 01:34:06,720
Now, though, what happened was 
by degrees the US went from 

2119
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:09,200
being essentially like the 
conservative power of capitalist

2120
01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:12,080
power, whatever in the world, to
becoming the anarchist power, 

2121
01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:14,680
just destabilizing countries in 
the name of democracy. 

2122
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:16,640
Sometimes the name of capitalist
is often named Iraqi, blowing 

2123
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:19,600
them up, right. 
And like, there's a flip that's 

2124
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:23,200
happened where, you know, 
America, I think, is now on the 

2125
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:26,880
global left and China and Russia
are on the nationalist, right, 

2126
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:29,240
Right. 
Like basically for over 30 

2127
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:31,680
years, I actually have this 
figure, this figure in the book,

2128
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:33,960
right? 
This is actually a really, this 

2129
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:35,560
is what I call the global 
flippening. 

2130
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:37,800
This is as of three years ago. 
And we're in the middle of 

2131
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:39,640
social war. 
So things are moving very fast. 

2132
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:42,160
It's like, you know, borders 
stay static. 

2133
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:44,400
And then in a war, they move 
fluidly, very quickly. 

2134
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:49,160
So we're kind of like that. 
But in 1988, OK, the USSR was 

2135
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:51,760
firmly on the economic last 
Warsaw Pact, PRC, etcetera, 

2136
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:53,040
right? 
Then you have, let's say 

2137
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:55,160
Switzerland is neutral, OK, 
because they actually did trade.

2138
01:34:55,440 --> 01:34:57,760
And then you have Reagan's 
America, the economic right and 

2139
01:34:57,760 --> 01:34:59,280
EU, NATO over here, right? 
OK. 

2140
01:34:59,800 --> 01:35:02,440
And India was socialist, China 
was in migration. 

2141
01:35:02,440 --> 01:35:04,760
It was like 10 years post, you 
know, dung, right? 

2142
01:35:05,040 --> 01:35:07,040
But it's hiding its strength, 
biting its time and so on, 

2143
01:35:07,040 --> 01:35:11,160
right? 
And then by 2022 you have woke 

2144
01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:15,400
America is the farthest left 
culturally and you have 

2145
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:19,000
nationalist Russia and China, I 
would argue on the cultural 

2146
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:22,120
right and then let Eastern 
Europe and India, Israel kind of

2147
01:35:22,120 --> 01:35:24,440
over here, Bitcoin, Ethereum, 
you can argue are the new 

2148
01:35:24,440 --> 01:35:27,040
Switzerland, right? 
And then Western Europe is like,

2149
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:29,000
you know, the center left, 
right. 

2150
01:35:29,440 --> 01:35:32,080
So this is an economic left 
versus economic right. 

2151
01:35:32,080 --> 01:35:34,440
This is cultural right versus 
cultural left, right. 

2152
01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:37,760
And you know, to establish this,
I showed a bunch of almost like 

2153
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:42,440
inequalities over here, right? 
Like you know, for example, you 

2154
01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:47,080
know, each one way of putting it
is for each position on this, 

2155
01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:49,360
I've got a citation there and 
I've got another one that shows 

2156
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:51,720
that who's to who's right? 
Who's to who's left, right. 

2157
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:56,120
So for example, you know the 
detailed argument, right? 

2158
01:35:56,520 --> 01:35:59,200
So here say. 
America, I mean, so you're 

2159
01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:00,920
talking about specifically about
woke America. 

2160
01:36:00,920 --> 01:36:02,560
I can see that. 
Or specifically, yes, left side 

2161
01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:03,800
of America. 
Well, what about the right side 

2162
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:05,040
of? 
America Well, so that that's a 

2163
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:05,760
good question. 
That's right. 

2164
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:09,320
So the interesting thing is the 
right side of America, I think, 

2165
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:13,400
in this time of chaos, in churn,
will actually eventually end up 

2166
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:14,840
on the global left. 
And let me explain why. 

2167
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:18,240
The reason is you can go 
libertarian enough that you're 

2168
01:36:18,240 --> 01:36:20,480
anarchist. 
But the global left does if you 

2169
01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:23,960
are truly. 
Left, there's different versions

2170
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:27,840
of left and right. 
Okay, insofar as you identify. 

2171
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:31,880
So American anarchy, right? 
There's both the left and the 

2172
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:34,440
right version of that. 
And the left version of it is 

2173
01:36:34,440 --> 01:36:37,480
BLM, which is we are all equal. 
And the right version is, let's 

2174
01:36:37,480 --> 01:36:39,160
call it extreme Bitcoin 
maximalism. 

2175
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:41,160
You ain't the boss of me, right?
OK. 

2176
01:36:41,520 --> 01:36:45,080
And what both of those mean is 
nobody's in charge. 

2177
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:47,560
We are all equal means 
completely flat. 

2178
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:50,360
Yeah, you ain't the boss of me 
means nobody's in charge. 

2179
01:36:50,440 --> 01:36:53,560
Again, completely flat, Right. 
And this is BLM, and this is Jan

2180
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:54,680
6th. 
OK? 

2181
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:57,600
So when you think about what 
that means on the street, it 

2182
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:01,600
means swarming mobs, chaos, 
assault rifles, you know, 

2183
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:03,920
everybody yelling at each other,
no established hierarchy. 

2184
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:06,280
And nobody wants to fold into 
anybody, right? 

2185
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:11,560
Trump is like the last leader 
and opera him la deluge like 

2186
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:15,440
after after MAGA maximalism, 
after orange man, orange coin. 

2187
01:37:15,680 --> 01:37:18,520
You have something where you 
have a bunch of basically 

2188
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:22,440
Bitcoin, you know, Bitcoin 
warlords, whatever you want to 

2189
01:37:22,440 --> 01:37:24,480
call it, right? 
And you just have a bunch of 

2190
01:37:24,480 --> 01:37:26,680
leaders who. 
Warring States, go ahead. 

2191
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:27,440
No, no, I was. 
It's. 

2192
01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:29,360
Warlord era, right? 
It's like warlord era in in 

2193
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:31,840
China, right. 
The war or the Warring States. 

2194
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:32,640
Yeah, exactly. 
That's right. 

2195
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:34,760
So actually those are two 
different periods, but yes, 

2196
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:40,040
yeah. 
So the, The thing is that people

2197
01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:44,400
don't want to, they, they have 
taken one piece of American 

2198
01:37:44,400 --> 01:37:48,120
culture, which is leadership and
so on and so forth, but they 

2199
01:37:48,120 --> 01:37:49,360
just don't understand the 
concept. 

2200
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:50,960
They don't understand harmony or
whatever. 

2201
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:52,560
You know, they understand, you 
know, the they understand the 

2202
01:37:52,560 --> 01:37:55,160
concept of organizing. 
One way of putting this is 

2203
01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:58,520
individually alpha is 
collectively beta, right? 

2204
01:37:58,520 --> 01:38:01,840
Like if you I understand why 
Andrew Tate and so on exist, 

2205
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:03,240
right? 
I actually think he himself is 

2206
01:38:03,240 --> 01:38:06,800
smart enough that a lot of what 
he says is like a persona, OK? 

2207
01:38:06,960 --> 01:38:09,440
But don't you think he says it 
also because he identifies the 

2208
01:38:09,440 --> 01:38:12,240
fact that men have become more 
disenfranchised, so he's just 

2209
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:13,920
pandering to that audience. 
Totally, totally. 

2210
01:38:14,040 --> 01:38:16,720
So he's, he's playing a 
character in many ways, right. 

2211
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:19,240
So he's, he is smart enough. 
I think that he, I mean, his 

2212
01:38:19,240 --> 01:38:22,440
father's a chess master and so 
it's but his audience doesn't 

2213
01:38:22,440 --> 01:38:25,200
get the joke, right. 
His audience doesn't get the 

2214
01:38:25,200 --> 01:38:27,360
joke. 
And and, and maybe he means 

2215
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:31,720
somebody says, you know, I'm 
not, I'm not defending, but one 

2216
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:38,120
way of thinking about it is like
Andrew Peterson is like Jordan 

2217
01:38:38,760 --> 01:38:40,400
Andrew Tate is like Jordan 
Peterson with tats. 

2218
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:43,560
OK, why? 
Jordan Peterson gave advice to 

2219
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:46,280
young men to kind of clean your 
room so on and so forth. 

2220
01:38:46,360 --> 01:38:49,080
And that was like the old 
culture where in Western 

2221
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:51,720
culture, hard work was valued 
and you're a valued member of 

2222
01:38:51,720 --> 01:38:52,720
the society and so on and so 
forth. 

2223
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:55,200
And then lots of young men found
that that just didn't work. 

2224
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:57,120
And they were just basically 
there being a nice guy. 

2225
01:38:57,120 --> 01:38:59,480
They were taken advantage of. 
So they went to the Andrew 

2226
01:38:59,480 --> 01:39:03,440
Tatish, you know, all tats and 
like FU guttural, you know, the 

2227
01:39:03,440 --> 01:39:07,160
most, you know, insane form of 
ultra masculinity out there, 

2228
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:09,880
right? 
The problem is that being alpha 

2229
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:12,840
in this way, individually alpha 
is collectively beta because 

2230
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:15,120
that those that means those men 
can't cooperate, right? 

2231
01:39:15,360 --> 01:39:20,600
By contrast, the quote more beta
men who are, let's say, working 

2232
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:23,600
on a ship in China or in Asia or
something like that. 

2233
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:25,840
They're actually collectively 
alpha because it can build 

2234
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:27,480
strength together, right? 
Say beta. 

2235
01:39:27,480 --> 01:39:30,040
By the way, I'm not, I'm trying 
to say the stereotype of like 

2236
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:33,480
Chinese, Indian men being beta, 
but I'm saying the, the, the 

2237
01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:36,080
cooperative. 
Like the problem is male male 

2238
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:40,520
cooperation is characterized as 
beta in the West, right? 

2239
01:39:41,120 --> 01:39:45,160
And I understand how it got 
there, but it's bad because now 

2240
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:48,400
you have women, men, everybody's
fighting each other on different

2241
01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:49,880
axes. 
Nobody's in charge. 

2242
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:52,080
This is what I mean by American 
anarchy, like for example, with 

2243
01:39:52,080 --> 01:39:53,720
Bitcoin maximalism. 
But there's Go. 

2244
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:55,080
Ahead. 
Yeah, but what do you call 

2245
01:39:55,080 --> 01:39:56,960
American? 
So what you might describe as I 

2246
01:39:56,960 --> 01:40:01,080
guess American hierarchy, I mean
more positively, isn't that 

2247
01:40:01,080 --> 01:40:04,320
American individuality and and 
exceptionalism? 

2248
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:08,720
Well, they will you in the same 
way that you had communism in 

2249
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:11,760
the mid 20th century and it had 
all kinds of nice words on it, 

2250
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:14,240
right? 
But the substance of it was just

2251
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:16,480
a disorganized, like a terrible 
society, right? 

2252
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:19,760
Actually, I should say it was 
the presence of a malevolent 

2253
01:40:19,760 --> 01:40:23,160
state, right? 
American anarchy is the malign 

2254
01:40:23,160 --> 01:40:27,800
absence of a functional state. 
So, so like as every institution

2255
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:31,800
melts down, like the FBI melts 
down, like Delaware melts down, 

2256
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:33,400
right? 
You know, Delaware's everybody's

2257
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:34,880
got note. 
California melts down at the 

2258
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:38,360
point that Elon's gotten out. 
You have, you know, every single

2259
01:40:38,360 --> 01:40:42,000
day you see another fight where 
it's like, I don't know, like, 

2260
01:40:42,040 --> 01:40:45,320
like, like there's a DoD thing. 
Yeah, but some general is fired 

2261
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:45,840
right over. 
There, yeah. 

2262
01:40:45,880 --> 01:40:47,920
And I guess it's, and you could 
also argue around all the 

2263
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:50,120
conspiracy theories that are 
being sort of put forward as 

2264
01:40:50,120 --> 01:40:52,080
well, and people listening to 
them, believing them and all 

2265
01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:52,920
that. 
So I get that right. 

2266
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:53,960
This is the end of the Soviet 
Union. 

2267
01:40:53,960 --> 01:40:55,120
Basically the end of the Soviet 
Union. 

2268
01:40:55,120 --> 01:40:56,760
Once they stop believing in 
communism, they believed in 

2269
01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:58,440
anything. 
But I would say that there is 

2270
01:40:58,440 --> 01:41:01,440
one route that I I do appreciate
and often you can disagree on. 

2271
01:41:01,440 --> 01:41:04,280
That is, I do think the one 
thing that makes America 

2272
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:08,480
difference amongst almost any 
other country is this idea that 

2273
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:11,640
on the individuality and the 
celebration of that individual, 

2274
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:14,240
which causes this anarchy and 
causes things because you start 

2275
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:16,240
over COVID with the masks. 
It's like it's my right. 

2276
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:18,160
It's I got to do this worse in 
China or Japan. 

2277
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:20,320
It's like, well, we all got to 
do it because it's for the 

2278
01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:23,680
collective goods, so to speak. 
But I would also say, and this 

2279
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:26,520
goes down more, I guess more 
deeply rooted and maybe my 

2280
01:41:26,520 --> 01:41:30,600
perspective on, I think humans 
are generally tuned more for 

2281
01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:33,920
good than for bad, As in we care
about our societies. 

2282
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:36,960
Maybe we don't care about all of
America, maybe we care about red

2283
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:38,920
America more than blue America 
or MAGA, whatever. 

2284
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:42,440
However, we're still something 
that we want to attach ourselves

2285
01:41:42,440 --> 01:41:44,400
to. 
And there's a common thread that

2286
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:48,600
eventually we will agree to 
because we want to be as social 

2287
01:41:48,600 --> 01:41:51,720
creatures, want to be attached 
to society rather than to be 

2288
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:54,680
something where we're truly just
individual beasts, as it were. 

2289
01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:55,120
Right. 
Yeah. 

2290
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:58,480
And in some cases, that's 
reinforced by education in the 

2291
01:41:58,480 --> 01:42:00,240
States. 
So, you know, like China is an 

2292
01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:02,600
example of that. 
And one side of the extreme, 

2293
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:05,920
which is very different from 
something inside North Korea or 

2294
01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:07,680
it's basically just like 
literally ripped into your. 

2295
01:42:07,680 --> 01:42:09,400
Yeah, of course, of course. 
So forget that. 

2296
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:13,840
And, you know, like, I think 
what you're describing to me is,

2297
01:42:14,400 --> 01:42:18,760
but, you know, back in days of 
the the the 16th, 17th century, 

2298
01:42:19,040 --> 01:42:22,040
there were many constructs of 
how society should operate, run.

2299
01:42:22,040 --> 01:42:24,480
And you had sort of the 
Hobbesian view, right, which is 

2300
01:42:24,480 --> 01:42:28,120
basically talking about how, you
know, men are generally selfish 

2301
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:30,920
and bad and evil. 
And therefore we need state 

2302
01:42:30,920 --> 01:42:33,920
control to put it together and 
control it because it's going to

2303
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:37,760
be chaotic versus I think the 
one construct that maybe most of

2304
01:42:37,760 --> 01:42:39,880
us more in the West degree, the 
locking perspective, which is 

2305
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:43,240
that. 
Yeah, we have some elements that

2306
01:42:43,240 --> 01:42:45,760
are selfish and some of the 
problem with it, but by and 

2307
01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:49,000
large, most people want to be 
helpful and kind and supportive.

2308
01:42:49,000 --> 01:42:52,200
And we need to, you know, be 
involved in a way where we 

2309
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:55,000
support that construct but not 
basically sort of, you know, 

2310
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:58,560
control it as it were, Right. 
And I think just to close that 

2311
01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:02,000
thought, when we talk about a 
future of decentralization, we 

2312
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:04,800
talk about a future work through
code and what you describe as a 

2313
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:06,440
network state and so on expands 
on. 

2314
01:43:07,080 --> 01:43:10,560
Wouldn't we be able to say that 
we can then actually celebrate 

2315
01:43:10,640 --> 01:43:13,840
individuality, much more so, but
in the construct of common rules

2316
01:43:13,840 --> 01:43:20,440
and code laws as it were, that 
we can agree on and do good 

2317
01:43:20,440 --> 01:43:22,640
things because we prefer to do 
good things rather than 

2318
01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:25,240
necessarily sort of really just 
fight each other all the time? 

2319
01:43:25,440 --> 01:43:29,600
So here's my view. 
My view is on there's absolutely

2320
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:31,920
like, you know, capitalism 
versus communism is not 

2321
01:43:32,000 --> 01:43:34,840
interesting in the sense of like
even the communists are 

2322
01:43:34,840 --> 01:43:36,640
capitalists, right? 
But yeah, that's right. 

2323
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:40,240
That's right. 
So but individual versus group 

2324
01:43:40,280 --> 01:43:42,560
is always interesting because 
there's a balance of between the

2325
01:43:42,560 --> 01:43:44,360
individual and the group. 
What are your responsibilities? 

2326
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:45,520
What are your freedoms and so 
on. 

2327
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:47,760
Rights. 
I'd say 3 or 4 things are 

2328
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:51,280
responsible. 
You said first is I think for 

2329
01:43:51,280 --> 01:43:54,440
you and me and for people in 
tech and so on, when we talk 

2330
01:43:54,440 --> 01:43:57,080
about individual liberty or 
freedom or something like that, 

2331
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:01,600
we are also balancing that 
implicitly with responsibility 

2332
01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:05,200
that say you're not going to go 
and curse and yell in public, 

2333
01:44:05,400 --> 01:44:07,360
You're not going to be drunk in 
public. 

2334
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:11,160
There's this degree of like an 
on board governor there where it

2335
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:14,880
is ordered liberty, right? 
Like because you take care of 

2336
01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:17,600
yourself, then you can have more
freedom, right? 

2337
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:22,040
The problem is that there is a 
low IQ version of I can do 

2338
01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:24,840
whatever I want. 
You can't tell me what to do F 

2339
01:44:24,840 --> 01:44:27,120
you you know I'm it's a free 
country, you know blah blah. 

2340
01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:29,440
Or like we are all equal burn 
everything down. 

2341
01:44:29,640 --> 01:44:32,840
There's like really insane 
versions of this that that do 

2342
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:35,040
not have any onboard controller 
right? 

2343
01:44:35,280 --> 01:44:39,320
That do not have self governance
that manifest in drug addiction 

2344
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:42,920
or like extreme levels of 
obesity or, you know, out of 

2345
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:46,680
wedlock births or you know, like
setting fires, riots, setting 

2346
01:44:46,680 --> 01:44:50,240
way was on fire, you know, or 
just generally being disordered 

2347
01:44:50,240 --> 01:44:52,520
even on acts and like yelling 
for people to die. 

2348
01:44:52,520 --> 01:44:58,240
And so, so that is a symptom of,
see, the problem is we have a 

2349
01:44:58,240 --> 01:45:03,280
language to describe an excess 
of centralized control right in,

2350
01:45:03,280 --> 01:45:05,040
in the anglophoral, because 
that's communism, that's 

2351
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:07,520
fascism. 
We don't have a language to 

2352
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:12,040
describe the other extreme, 
which is anarchy, right? 

2353
01:45:12,040 --> 01:45:14,160
Or I mean, there's a word 
anarchy, but it's, it's 

2354
01:45:14,160 --> 01:45:17,160
something where actually, in a 
sense, what is the Western left 

2355
01:45:17,160 --> 01:45:18,960
constantly afraid of? 
Fascism, fascism, fascism. 

2356
01:45:19,160 --> 01:45:20,480
What is the Western right afraid
of? 

2357
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:22,320
Communism, communism, communism,
right. 

2358
01:45:22,760 --> 01:45:27,520
And so they will push so far 
away from centralization that 

2359
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:29,960
they'll go to the anarchistic 
form of decentralization, where 

2360
01:45:29,960 --> 01:45:32,360
there's anarcho communism, 
anarcho capitalism. 

2361
01:45:32,880 --> 01:45:34,840
And of the two, I'll take 
anarcho capitalism because at 

2362
01:45:34,840 --> 01:45:37,880
least there's like some order. 
But it's like Mad Max, right? 

2363
01:45:38,280 --> 01:45:41,440
And I can show you. 
And when I say that by the way, 

2364
01:45:42,080 --> 01:45:44,680
I know. 
Yeah, it might sound. 

2365
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:47,040
No, it's fascinating just 
because it's interesting. 

2366
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:50,560
It's just that I. 
Think that there's a failure 

2367
01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:51,680
mode the other way is what I'm 
saying. 

2368
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:52,880
And it's moving in that failure 
mode. 

2369
01:45:52,880 --> 01:45:55,040
And let me just show you some 
visuals, because I've got 

2370
01:45:55,080 --> 01:45:58,000
visuals in my head, but I want 
to show you what I mean when I 

2371
01:45:58,000 --> 01:45:59,600
say this, right? 
So, sure. 

2372
01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:01,320
I mean, OK, I've been to this 
future of San Francisco. 

2373
01:46:01,320 --> 01:46:01,960
I get it. 
Yeah, that's. 

2374
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:03,760
Right. 
So like for example. 

2375
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:06,680
But I think of San Francisco 
more as a as a state that's as a

2376
01:46:06,680 --> 01:46:10,320
place that's that's breaking 
down where social cohesion 

2377
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:11,200
again, well, but let. 
Me show you. 

2378
01:46:11,200 --> 01:46:12,640
Let me show you what it was 
actually at. 

2379
01:46:12,640 --> 01:46:15,960
This is the level that it's at. 
OK, so here's a video in San 

2380
01:46:15,960 --> 01:46:18,080
Francisco. 
This is like basically a year. 

2381
01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:21,480
And it's not just just a giant 
mob. 

2382
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:23,640
All school cars are running in 
circles. 

2383
01:46:24,600 --> 01:46:26,440
Then here, watch this. 
They're setting them on fire. 

2384
01:46:26,440 --> 01:46:31,920
OK, this is just straight up 
Black Mirror Mad Max in the real

2385
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:33,440
world. 
See, black murder is about like 

2386
01:46:33,440 --> 01:46:36,480
a dystopian future. 
And all the sci-fi stuff 

2387
01:46:36,760 --> 01:46:38,880
presupposes that the future is 
bad. 

2388
01:46:39,440 --> 01:46:42,600
But the present was OK, right? 
And here it's actually the 

2389
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:44,240
reverse. 
It's a present that's bad. 

2390
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:46,840
And look at this. 
These are just like animals 

2391
01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:49,720
basically, right? 
They have none of them are 

2392
01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:52,800
arrested the police fighting 
cars on fire. 

2393
01:46:52,800 --> 01:46:55,240
Obviously that can lead to I 
mean the reason fire is bad is 

2394
01:46:55,240 --> 01:46:58,080
it spreads right. 
So this is look at this, these, 

2395
01:46:58,120 --> 01:47:00,200
these. 
You know what? 

2396
01:47:02,800 --> 01:47:05,000
Where is this? 
By the way, this is not like 

2397
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:07,800
some random location. 
This is in front of the Ferry 

2398
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:10,800
building, right? 
This isn't this is not like some

2399
01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:12,520
place that's known to be a 
hellhole. 

2400
01:47:12,720 --> 01:47:16,400
This is happening in one of the 
most expensive places in in SF, 

2401
01:47:16,400 --> 01:47:18,080
right? 
And the police doing absolutely 

2402
01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:21,080
nothing is like a signal that 
the immune system of society 

2403
01:47:21,080 --> 01:47:22,400
doesn't work. 
And let me show you another one 

2404
01:47:22,400 --> 01:47:23,400
ready. 
Here's another one. 

2405
01:47:23,400 --> 01:47:32,120
Here is. 
But are we, are we not at risk 

2406
01:47:32,120 --> 01:47:33,960
of highlighting? 
Well, prefer I agree with you, 

2407
01:47:33,960 --> 01:47:36,280
this is this is terrible, but 
but are we not at risk of 

2408
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:39,920
highlighting the sort of 
exceptions to the rule? 

2409
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:42,360
Because while it's true that 
there's a lot of problems in San

2410
01:47:42,360 --> 01:47:44,800
Francisco, it is not that 90% of
the population is doing right. 

2411
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:49,200
Here's Susan, right here's 
who's. 

2412
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:58,880
It. 
Mall that's that's the only 

2413
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:00,080
people exactly. 
I'm right here. 

2414
01:48:03,440 --> 01:48:04,520
This guy's obviously queuing for
his. 

2415
01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:10,800
Life, he's seen it before yeah. 
Now what's up There's something 

2416
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:22,760
on his car and it's fully caring
for his life So look, watch what

2417
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:26,360
happens watch what happens this 
is a large bomb of people. 

2418
01:48:26,680 --> 01:48:27,920
This is hundreds of people, 
right? 

2419
01:48:28,480 --> 01:48:44,480
So watch, watch that show. 
We'll see you there. 

2420
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:51,320
No Watch this start. 
This is the. 

2421
01:48:51,320 --> 01:48:55,400
Fasting. 
OK, this is World War Z. 

2422
01:48:56,240 --> 01:49:00,560
This is 28 days later. 
The fast zombies are running 

2423
01:49:00,560 --> 01:49:03,880
after him with this beautiful 
building and this well. 

2424
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:05,760
Landscaped. 
Manicured thing, right? 

2425
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:09,160
That was the old civilization 
that built that and this is the 

2426
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:13,200
new anti civilization that has 
risen and you see the mopeds 

2427
01:49:13,200 --> 01:49:14,520
coming. 
That is to treat Mad Men. 

2428
01:49:15,800 --> 01:49:17,840
OK, Yeah. 
Do you know what scene is then? 

2429
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:20,680
Yeah. 
No, this is like Minneapolis. 

2430
01:49:21,160 --> 01:49:23,040
This kind of thing is happening 
all over America. 

2431
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:26,080
It's not even like did this guy 
do anything? 

2432
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:28,440
He didn't do anything. 
He was I don't even hear it was 

2433
01:49:28,440 --> 01:49:30,320
really Ghazi. 
There's some these are insane 

2434
01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:34,280
people and there's a lot of 
people enough to take on the 

2435
01:49:34,280 --> 01:49:37,440
street have no police. 
It can happen here in America. 

2436
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:40,400
What's 1 do with that flag? 
They have more made people like 

2437
01:49:41,160 --> 01:49:43,160
here as it's feel and stuff. 
I don't. 

2438
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:45,920
Know of course not what it is, 
but that's the point, because 

2439
01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:47,280
this. 
Is not expecting anywhere. 

2440
01:49:48,640 --> 01:49:50,280
This is something that happens 
so. 

2441
01:49:50,280 --> 01:49:51,800
Much. 
Where's the police, I guess. 

2442
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:53,280
Where's the police? 
They've been abolished, 

2443
01:49:53,480 --> 01:49:54,720
defunded. 
Remember that? 

2444
01:49:54,720 --> 01:49:56,400
Like, you know one of the 
things. 

2445
01:49:56,400 --> 01:49:58,640
That took me a long time again. 
This is obvious, but it's just 

2446
01:49:59,800 --> 01:50:02,920
the level of property that the 
the, the billions, trillions, 

2447
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:06,280
whatever in property that the 
police force protects in a city 

2448
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:11,200
is like their pay is a tiny 
fraction of what that is worth, 

2449
01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:13,960
right? 
So obviously they're they have 

2450
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:16,840
to do it for the honor, for the 
the sake of protecting their 

2451
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:18,880
community, for the praise of 
their community. 

2452
01:50:19,040 --> 01:50:20,840
You know, women love a man in 
uniform. 

2453
01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:22,480
It's supposed to be something 
where people are like, you know,

2454
01:50:22,760 --> 01:50:24,720
thank you for your service for 
the military, but also like 

2455
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:29,120
having that respect is actually 
a big part of what they deserve 

2456
01:50:29,120 --> 01:50:30,720
because it's a dangerous and 
difficult job. 

2457
01:50:31,160 --> 01:50:34,160
And the whole insane, abolish 
the police, defund the police 

2458
01:50:34,160 --> 01:50:36,880
kind of thing took away a lot of
that status. 

2459
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:39,360
And the police were suddenly 
characterizing people as a bad 

2460
01:50:39,360 --> 01:50:41,160
guy. 
So a lot of the guys who were 

2461
01:50:41,160 --> 01:50:44,560
good guys laughed. 
And others just like, like, you 

2462
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:46,240
know what, take care of 
yourself, you know? 

2463
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:48,480
Right. 
So that's like, if they're not 

2464
01:50:48,480 --> 01:50:52,080
going to be praised for stopping
bad guys, let the bad guy, you 

2465
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:53,640
know, go, go take care of 
yourself, idiots. 

2466
01:50:53,640 --> 01:50:55,480
You know, that's how a lot of 
policemen feel, right? 

2467
01:50:55,880 --> 01:50:58,640
And so, I mean, the tragic thing
would be that. 

2468
01:50:59,080 --> 01:51:00,960
And I guess I, I try to be 
hopeful here. 

2469
01:51:01,320 --> 01:51:03,880
Yeah, but the tragic. 
Thing would be that if you give 

2470
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:06,960
up on a place right and then you
leave that is the decline of the

2471
01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:09,760
state for sure. 
True right but but but America 

2472
01:51:09,760 --> 01:51:11,960
was founded by people who gave 
up on a place and left right in 

2473
01:51:11,960 --> 01:51:15,120
the 1600's the the. 
Puritans gave up on England and 

2474
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:16,800
left. 
The Cavaliers gave up on England

2475
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:19,800
and left. 1848 revolutions, 
1848, the German Americans gave 

2476
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:22,080
up on Germany left. 
Did the Irish Americans, did 

2477
01:51:22,080 --> 01:51:24,360
they betray Ireland? 
There's more Irish people 

2478
01:51:24,360 --> 01:51:25,800
outside Ireland than they were 
there. 

2479
01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:26,400
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

2480
01:51:26,480 --> 01:51:30,280
So like every major group that 
came to the US basically 

2481
01:51:30,480 --> 01:51:34,760
essentially made the decision 
that their home country was had 

2482
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:37,320
too many problems. 
The end later, obviously, Jewish

2483
01:51:37,320 --> 01:51:39,640
people during the Holocaust, 
church, Iranians after the 

2484
01:51:39,640 --> 01:51:41,560
Iranian revolution, Korean 
people after the Korean War, 

2485
01:51:41,560 --> 01:51:44,040
Vietnamese people in Vietnam 
War, like Indians to escape 

2486
01:51:44,040 --> 01:51:45,520
socialism. 
Chinese people, like, you know, 

2487
01:51:45,520 --> 01:51:49,040
during Maoism, every major 
group, you know, came to America

2488
01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:51,840
because there was something 
busted, destroyed, wrecked, 

2489
01:51:51,880 --> 01:51:54,480
ruined in their home country. 
Or they just couldn't fix it in 

2490
01:51:54,480 --> 01:51:57,920
in time practically, because not
everybody can like be like, OK, 

2491
01:51:57,920 --> 01:52:00,160
I'm going to ascend to becoming 
president and so on, right? 

2492
01:52:00,400 --> 01:52:02,720
The best decision for them was 
to vote with their feet and 

2493
01:52:02,720 --> 01:52:03,520
leave, Right. 
Yeah. 

2494
01:52:03,600 --> 01:52:05,320
And now I think another piece of
this actually. 

2495
01:52:06,160 --> 01:52:06,960
Sorry. 
Go, go. 

2496
01:52:07,040 --> 01:52:08,480
You say something. 
I was going to say. 

2497
01:52:08,720 --> 01:52:10,680
Yeah, Yeah. 
You know, No, I mean, I think, I

2498
01:52:10,680 --> 01:52:13,040
think the point I'm trying to 
make is, is that. 

2499
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:16,280
As far as long as it's going to 
be people in the space that want

2500
01:52:16,280 --> 01:52:18,640
to make it work, right? 
There is something worth 

2501
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:20,720
fighting for. 
And so my, my, my sense is, is 

2502
01:52:20,720 --> 01:52:22,080
that America's worth fighting 
for. 

2503
01:52:22,080 --> 01:52:23,480
I'm not American, just be clear,
right? 

2504
01:52:24,080 --> 01:52:27,080
But I think there is something 
that there is, there's something

2505
01:52:27,080 --> 01:52:29,200
to lose that is more precious 
than just your. 

2506
01:52:29,480 --> 01:52:31,680
The values are worth fighting 
for, absolutely. 

2507
01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:34,160
Yeah. 
But it's meaning and and and and

2508
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:37,160
so I do think that the. 
Idea and the place as it is. 

2509
01:52:37,560 --> 01:52:40,200
People fighting for it, whether 
this is someone like an Elon or 

2510
01:52:40,200 --> 01:52:42,600
a series of people like this, I 
think people will come together 

2511
01:52:42,600 --> 01:52:45,200
if the police, state police 
fails as it is right now. 

2512
01:52:45,480 --> 01:52:48,360
I do think, you know, humans 
have this powerful way of 

2513
01:52:48,480 --> 01:52:51,760
reorganizing and reforming and 
it will look differently to your

2514
01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:54,760
point, but they'll come together
to make it work, right? 

2515
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:55,960
And I think you see this in 
history. 

2516
01:52:55,960 --> 01:52:58,880
One, when things fall, they come
back slightly differently, but 

2517
01:52:58,880 --> 01:53:02,320
they will they will they will 
form and shape themselves in a 

2518
01:53:02,320 --> 01:53:05,520
way that again, brings it back 
down to the right sense of 

2519
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:06,920
safety and security that that 
people. 

2520
01:53:06,920 --> 01:53:08,480
That's right. 
So this is like what I mean. 

2521
01:53:08,760 --> 01:53:11,880
So I think the way I think about
it is. 

2522
01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:16,240
Like you can think of it, the 
Internet is either AV3 or even 

2523
01:53:16,240 --> 01:53:19,000
V5. 
You have Greece, Rome, Britain, 

2524
01:53:19,040 --> 01:53:23,400
America, the Internet, right and
for example, Bitcoin represents 

2525
01:53:23,400 --> 01:53:26,440
American values, but it's also 
it's really Internet values, 

2526
01:53:26,640 --> 01:53:29,640
right yes and so because global,
because it's decentralized, 

2527
01:53:29,640 --> 01:53:31,680
right, the Internet is more 
America than. 

2528
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:34,000
America and MAGA is trying. 
To be more China than China, 

2529
01:53:35,240 --> 01:53:36,960
right? 
Like in the sense of MAGA has 

2530
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:38,440
China envy. 
They want to be a manufacturing 

2531
01:53:38,440 --> 01:53:39,600
power, they want to be a 
military power. 

2532
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:41,680
They want they're even obsessed 
with Taiwan, right? 

2533
01:53:42,160 --> 01:53:44,840
All these kinds of things are 
things that nobody ever cared 

2534
01:53:44,840 --> 01:53:49,120
about America until basically 
2015 when Trump, like because 

2535
01:53:49,120 --> 01:53:52,040
red America was losing to China,
MAGA had China envy. 

2536
01:53:52,440 --> 01:53:55,840
And nobody admits this, right? 
Like basically the Democrats 

2537
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:58,560
also have China envy, right? 
Because they want to have that 

2538
01:53:58,560 --> 01:53:59,840
level of control and so on and 
so forth. 

2539
01:53:59,840 --> 01:54:01,600
And China just does it more 
competently. 

2540
01:54:01,600 --> 01:54:03,840
China's a much better China than
blue. 

2541
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:06,600
Americans are very similar, by 
the way, to the 80s with the 

2542
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:09,360
USSR when they lost confidence 
in their own system and 

2543
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:10,880
Gorbachev started copying 
America. 

2544
01:54:11,120 --> 01:54:13,640
Glasnost, perestroika were 
American concepts that were 

2545
01:54:13,640 --> 01:54:17,520
brought into the Soviet context.
And it didn't work also because 

2546
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:19,720
they weren't ready for it. 
They weren't ready for it, you 

2547
01:54:19,720 --> 01:54:21,360
know, it's basically the cart 
before the horse. 

2548
01:54:21,360 --> 01:54:22,720
They're trying to ideological 
reform. 

2549
01:54:22,720 --> 01:54:25,000
Before the manufacturing reform.
Right, All that kind of stuff. 

2550
01:54:25,000 --> 01:54:26,200
So the whole thing melted down, 
right? 

2551
01:54:26,480 --> 01:54:30,120
And basically Gorbachev, you 
know, lost confidence in the 

2552
01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:33,520
communist system and tried to do
things in a different way. 

2553
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:35,760
He's trying to copy America, and
the Soviet Union was a much 

2554
01:54:35,760 --> 01:54:37,880
worse America than America 
later. 

2555
01:54:38,040 --> 01:54:40,760
Now Putin has rebooted the whole
thing as a Russian nationalist 

2556
01:54:40,760 --> 01:54:44,000
project that took 30 years. 
And you know, like it's more 

2557
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:45,240
successful than it was in the 
90s. 

2558
01:54:45,360 --> 01:54:46,720
Maybe it's going to win this war
in Ukraine. 

2559
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:48,440
Who the heck knows what's going 
on for years and years and 

2560
01:54:48,440 --> 01:54:52,080
years. 
OK, so or, or, or he loses or 

2561
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:54,160
it's some crazy stalemate that's
been going for way longer than 

2562
01:54:54,160 --> 01:54:55,160
anybody expected. 
Fine. 

2563
01:54:55,520 --> 01:55:01,440
So I think that in, in, you 
know, trying to like China will 

2564
01:55:01,440 --> 01:55:04,320
always be a better China than 
than than MAGA, right. 

2565
01:55:04,680 --> 01:55:07,720
And, and because China is of 
course, it's just comfortable in

2566
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:09,200
its own skin. 
All this stuff like industrial 

2567
01:55:09,200 --> 01:55:11,800
policy that manga is trying to 
do, it's also got decades and 

2568
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:13,560
decades of of of build up and 
experiences. 

2569
01:55:13,560 --> 01:55:14,920
You can't just replicate that 
overnight. 

2570
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:17,360
Yeah, exactly. 
Like they want to make they want

2571
01:55:17,360 --> 01:55:20,320
to replicate your head, Sir, but
but but there is one, of course.

2572
01:55:20,800 --> 01:55:23,600
Thing that is different is 
around applications of AI right?

2573
01:55:23,880 --> 01:55:26,440
Sure, but even yeah, go ahead. 
And the reason why I think it 

2574
01:55:26,440 --> 01:55:28,800
was interesting is I do think 
that the way that AI. 

2575
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:30,560
Is forming and developing in 
China under. 

2576
01:55:30,840 --> 01:55:33,160
More of a state control 
environment because of safety 

2577
01:55:33,160 --> 01:55:35,640
and security and so on, is going
to have a different flavour than

2578
01:55:35,640 --> 01:55:37,480
it has in America. 
And I do think it's the physical

2579
01:55:37,480 --> 01:55:38,120
world. 
Yes, Sir. 

2580
01:55:38,440 --> 01:55:42,840
And, and also I think in America
the application of individual AI

2581
01:55:42,840 --> 01:55:45,840
will form differently than it 
will in China for that reason, 

2582
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:47,280
right? 
Both of them would have their 

2583
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:51,200
own forms of it. 
And maybe, you know, is the 

2584
01:55:51,200 --> 01:55:53,280
application of AI and by 
extension crypto and 

2585
01:55:53,280 --> 01:55:56,280
tokenization of that type of 
stuff not going to be perhaps 

2586
01:55:56,280 --> 01:55:58,320
that answer? 
And in terms of helping sort of 

2587
01:55:58,840 --> 01:56:02,160
reshape society, right? 
Because I feel like, you know, 

2588
01:56:02,520 --> 01:56:05,200
to your point about it's 
difficult for someone to 

2589
01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:08,680
compete, but you know, in the 
classic labour construct. 

2590
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:11,480
But when you talk about what's 
happening in AI on the creative 

2591
01:56:11,480 --> 01:56:13,840
side and what's happening with 
the AI, the tools available to 

2592
01:56:13,840 --> 01:56:16,240
you, actually, it opens up 
entirely new frontiers. 

2593
01:56:16,240 --> 01:56:19,160
And it's true people will get 
left out, but it's also true 

2594
01:56:19,400 --> 01:56:20,040
that. 
In. 

2595
01:56:20,040 --> 01:56:22,880
A place like America, you can be
disruptive about this, which 

2596
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:24,600
won't be allowed in China in 
quite the same way. 

2597
01:56:24,640 --> 01:56:27,480
So I, I, I again, I, I don't 
mean just tech people, sorry, 

2598
01:56:27,760 --> 01:56:29,880
but I just to say that I 
actually think because of AI. 

2599
01:56:30,760 --> 01:56:33,160
You're going to have. 
Much more extensions of that 

2600
01:56:33,160 --> 01:56:36,320
human creativity extend 
throughout people who are not 

2601
01:56:36,320 --> 01:56:39,000
technical, meaning that we're 
going to have totally much more 

2602
01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:41,400
amortization. 
And therefore, you know, someone

2603
01:56:41,400 --> 01:56:45,520
in the Midwest could actually 
have an application of use in 

2604
01:56:45,520 --> 01:56:48,160
the so-called technology world 
that it would never had that 

2605
01:56:48,160 --> 01:56:51,680
otherwise. 
Yeah, but I'd say my, my mean, I

2606
01:56:51,680 --> 01:56:54,360
agree a lot of what you just 
said, except I'd say. 

2607
01:56:54,960 --> 01:56:57,760
Internet first, as you see from 
America first, right, Because 

2608
01:56:57,760 --> 01:56:59,520
not just someone in the Midwest,
someone in the Middle East, 

2609
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:02,200
someone in South America. 
So, right, And only 4% of the 

2610
01:57:02,200 --> 01:57:04,440
world is American, 96% is not 
American, right? 

2611
01:57:04,440 --> 01:57:06,640
But isn't actually America 
ultimately the physical 

2612
01:57:06,640 --> 01:57:09,320
manifestation of what you just 
described earlier in terms of 

2613
01:57:09,320 --> 01:57:10,560
the nation of every, well, 
people? 

2614
01:57:10,600 --> 01:57:14,360
Came in so so I think the V3 
will be network states right? 

2615
01:57:14,560 --> 01:57:17,560
Like essentially. 
The, the physical US doesn't 

2616
01:57:17,560 --> 01:57:21,000
have a logic to it anymore 
because you've got people who 

2617
01:57:21,000 --> 01:57:24,000
are communists and nationalists 
and technologists and so on all 

2618
01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:26,440
living next to each other that 
don't share their values, right?

2619
01:57:26,440 --> 01:57:30,480
Like basically it used to be, or
the whole nation state concept 

2620
01:57:30,680 --> 01:57:34,480
was this, this implicit premise 
that if you live near somebody, 

2621
01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:37,480
you share their values. 
Therefore you could agree on 

2622
01:57:37,480 --> 01:57:41,000
laws and those laws would be 
enforced at in a geographical 

2623
01:57:41,000 --> 01:57:43,400
way. 
Right now, people can live in an

2624
01:57:43,400 --> 01:57:45,560
apartment building and they 
completely disagree with each 

2625
01:57:45,560 --> 01:57:47,720
other on everything. 
They don't know each other. 

2626
01:57:47,920 --> 01:57:50,720
They're 30 feet away, one above 
or below or whatever. 

2627
01:57:50,920 --> 01:57:52,640
They wouldn't recognize each 
other on the street. 

2628
01:57:52,880 --> 01:57:56,120
They would like completely 
different content and now with 

2629
01:57:56,120 --> 01:57:58,640
the Internet they have complete 
different system of laws. 1 is 

2630
01:57:58,640 --> 01:58:01,040
on this blockchain, the other is
on another blockchain, right? 

2631
01:58:01,400 --> 01:58:05,200
So the entire concept of law 
being enforced geographically 

2632
01:58:05,880 --> 01:58:10,040
resides implicitly on culture 
being uniform geographically. 

2633
01:58:10,840 --> 01:58:14,240
When that breaks and fractalizes
as it is in America, you don't 

2634
01:58:14,240 --> 01:58:17,880
have that now. 
But China does have uniformity 

2635
01:58:17,880 --> 01:58:20,920
of culture and geography because
they have the firewall. 

2636
01:58:20,920 --> 01:58:24,960
They, they kind of took the hit 
to do that vertical integration,

2637
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:27,320
right, Those digital borders 
that they've built the great 

2638
01:58:27,320 --> 01:58:29,000
Firewall. 
I think especially in the age of

2639
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:32,120
drones, nobody can script 
something easily on China's 

2640
01:58:32,120 --> 01:58:34,320
territory because they have this
right? 

2641
01:58:34,520 --> 01:58:36,480
Like they, they have the ability
to block basically. 

2642
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:38,240
And this is the thing, like 
they, they kind of made this 

2643
01:58:38,240 --> 01:58:40,840
claim that they, if they can 
inspect physical packets coming 

2644
01:58:40,840 --> 01:58:42,400
across the border, they can 
inspect digital package. 

2645
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:47,200
And there's actually, you know, 
again, I will still be on the 

2646
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:51,680
side of the free Internet, but 
to make the case for that, and 

2647
01:58:51,680 --> 01:58:53,000
I'll give the case for the free 
entry in a second. 

2648
01:58:53,440 --> 01:58:57,120
But to make the case for that, 
that concept of digital borders 

2649
01:58:57,120 --> 01:58:59,720
as opposed to censorship is an 
interesting way of thinking 

2650
01:58:59,720 --> 01:59:01,960
about it, since it's actually 
true in the age of robots. 

2651
01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:04,320
And and you know, you don't want
to allow someone to just connect

2652
01:59:04,320 --> 01:59:06,280
and script a drone and blow 
something up like the Ukrainians

2653
01:59:06,280 --> 01:59:09,000
did in Russia, right? 
OK, so China's actually, they 

2654
01:59:09,000 --> 01:59:12,600
took the hit and they took the 
PR hit and they actually have 

2655
01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:16,440
something where they have a a 
communications layer and a 

2656
01:59:16,440 --> 01:59:18,080
social layer in Korea did 
something similar. 

2657
01:59:18,160 --> 01:59:18,840
Oh, really? 
Interesting. 

2658
01:59:18,840 --> 01:59:19,280
I know this. 
Yeah. 

2659
01:59:19,280 --> 01:59:21,520
So I mean, notice how Google 
doesn't exist in Korea. 

2660
01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:22,040
Yeah. 
Neighbor. 

2661
01:59:22,040 --> 01:59:23,360
Exactly it. 
Says old neighbor and the way 

2662
01:59:23,360 --> 01:59:24,360
the map. 
Systems run. 

2663
01:59:24,920 --> 01:59:26,680
They didn't do it in quite the 
Chinese way, in the sense that 

2664
01:59:26,680 --> 01:59:27,760
you could still. 
Access Google. 

2665
01:59:28,280 --> 01:59:33,320
In Korea, but all of the 
domestic sort of ecosystems and,

2666
01:59:33,600 --> 01:59:36,160
and frankly utilities and all 
that type of stuff really could 

2667
01:59:36,160 --> 01:59:38,920
only be accessed in Korea, in 
Korea by Korean companies. 

2668
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:40,360
Huh. 
So for instance, Google Maps 

2669
01:59:40,360 --> 01:59:41,760
does not work in Korea. 
Really. 

2670
01:59:41,760 --> 01:59:43,320
Yeah. 
So you have to use neighbor. 

2671
01:59:43,320 --> 01:59:44,800
Or you have to account maps, 
right? 

2672
01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:47,800
And it's sort of a different 
level of protectionism. 

2673
01:59:48,440 --> 01:59:52,560
But as a result, Korea now has a
very strong native industry, 

2674
01:59:52,560 --> 01:59:56,160
yes, that doesn't exist 
elsewhere in similar or actually

2675
01:59:56,160 --> 01:59:58,200
larger size countries because 
they've essentially been 

2676
01:59:58,200 --> 01:59:59,320
digitally colonized. 
Yes. 

2677
01:59:59,320 --> 02:00:01,280
So totally understand the 
perspective. 

2678
02:00:01,440 --> 02:00:02,400
That's great. 
Exactly right. 

2679
02:00:02,400 --> 02:00:05,320
And I think India also has, it 
has Reliance Geo, it has kind of

2680
02:00:05,320 --> 02:00:07,920
its own things and. 
So it has some degree of 

2681
02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:09,800
sovereignty on that versus 
those, right. 

2682
02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:14,840
So this concept of network 
versus state is actually like 

2683
02:00:14,840 --> 02:00:18,640
the capitalism, communism kind 
of thing of this century. 

2684
02:00:18,640 --> 02:00:20,760
It's centralization, 
decentralization, right? 

2685
02:00:21,000 --> 02:00:22,640
Because the network is 
capitalism, the state is 

2686
02:00:22,640 --> 02:00:24,720
communism. 
Or like when you actually say 

2687
02:00:25,080 --> 02:00:26,360
those are loaded terms, you're 
showing, right? 

2688
02:00:26,360 --> 02:00:28,880
Yes, exactly. 
The network is individual and 

2689
02:00:28,880 --> 02:00:31,560
the state is I think. 
Maybe you can summarize it as. 

2690
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:33,200
I mean it's. 
Decentralization, but it's 

2691
02:00:33,240 --> 02:00:36,200
ultimately down to. 
Getting one layer lower into 

2692
02:00:36,200 --> 02:00:37,280
your property rights. 
Yeah. 

2693
02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:40,320
And and as I think you were 
saying earlier, and I completely

2694
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:43,080
agree, there's many different 
valuable intermediates. 

2695
02:00:43,080 --> 02:00:45,280
Between these, right, Singapore 
and Dubai make different 

2696
02:00:45,280 --> 02:00:47,480
trade-offs, but they're both 
valuable places and it's useful 

2697
02:00:47,480 --> 02:00:49,760
to visit them, right? 
And there could be 50 different 

2698
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:51,960
kinds of network states, 1000 
different kinds of network 

2699
02:00:51,960 --> 02:00:54,080
states, each of the million 
people that make different 

2700
02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:57,800
trade-offs between the 
individual and the collective. 

2701
02:00:57,840 --> 02:01:02,120
And where, where I come to is 
you preserve democracy, you 

2702
02:01:02,120 --> 02:01:04,880
preserve choice by allowing 
people to choose between these 

2703
02:01:04,880 --> 02:01:06,880
locations, right? 
You go from the two party system

2704
02:01:06,880 --> 02:01:10,400
to the thousand city system. 
And so you can pick because 

2705
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:14,760
actually one of the things 
that's happening in the US is at

2706
02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:16,360
the state level, they're 
becoming one party states. 

2707
02:01:16,360 --> 02:01:18,920
California's been a one party 
state for 15 years, right? 

2708
02:01:19,120 --> 02:01:21,200
That's why they've got the $100 
billion change norm. 

2709
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:22,400
So California's a one party 
state. 

2710
02:01:22,400 --> 02:01:24,960
In response, Florida's becoming 
a one party Republican state, 

2711
02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:26,920
right? 
And, and, and obviously China's 

2712
02:01:26,920 --> 02:01:29,680
a one party state. 
So the actual choice is between 

2713
02:01:29,680 --> 02:01:32,920
states not within them, but the 
ultimate state ultimately for 

2714
02:01:32,920 --> 02:01:36,200
all of them in order to preserve
the ability for the state to. 

2715
02:01:36,200 --> 02:01:40,080
Survive they do need to have 
access to military of some ah OK

2716
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:43,600
let me talk about this right so 
my view on I think Americans are

2717
02:01:43,880 --> 02:01:45,240
you know and I've shown 
previous. 

2718
02:01:45,240 --> 02:01:48,000
Graphs in different podcasts. 
But like, you know, if you look 

2719
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:51,520
at shipbuilding, yes, China's 
200X American shipbuilding, so, 

2720
02:01:51,520 --> 02:01:55,320
so on stat after stat, the the 
current Secretary of Defense has

2721
02:01:55,320 --> 02:01:57,520
said China's hypersonic 
sequencing, all these aircraft 

2722
02:01:57,520 --> 02:02:00,520
carriers, our whole power 
projection platform is aircraft 

2723
02:02:00,520 --> 02:02:03,120
carriers and the ability to 
project power that way 

2724
02:02:03,120 --> 02:02:04,960
strategically around the globe. 
And yeah, we have a nuclear 

2725
02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:06,680
triad and all of that, but a big
part of it. 

2726
02:02:07,320 --> 02:02:10,200
And if you know 15 hypersonic 
missiles can take out our 10 

2727
02:02:10,200 --> 02:02:14,320
aircraft carriers in the 1st 20 
minutes of a conflict, what does

2728
02:02:14,320 --> 02:02:16,000
that look like? 
Former Secretary of Navy's 

2729
02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:17,920
admitted one Chinese shipyard 
can build more than all your 

2730
02:02:17,920 --> 02:02:20,520
shipyards combined. 
They have 13 shipyards. 

2731
02:02:20,520 --> 02:02:23,760
In some cases their shipyard has
more capacity. 1 shipyard has 

2732
02:02:23,760 --> 02:02:25,880
more capacity than all of our 
shipyards combined. 

2733
02:02:26,480 --> 02:02:28,920
CEO of Raytheon has said you 
can't decouple from China. 

2734
02:02:29,080 --> 02:02:32,200
So while we talk about pulling 
supply chain out of China, 

2735
02:02:32,200 --> 02:02:36,760
resourcing out of China, I would
tell you it's very impractical. 

2736
02:02:36,760 --> 02:02:39,160
We've been de risking for a 
couple of years, making sure 

2737
02:02:39,160 --> 02:02:42,200
that we have second sources for 
critical componentry. 

2738
02:02:42,760 --> 02:02:45,800
But unlike Russia, where we 
pulled out two weeks after the 

2739
02:02:45,800 --> 02:02:48,120
invasion last year, we shut down
our factories, we pulled our 

2740
02:02:48,120 --> 02:02:52,600
people out and we completely cut
off any contact with our Russian

2741
02:02:52,600 --> 02:02:54,720
customers. 
You can't do that with China. 

2742
02:02:55,040 --> 02:02:57,280
Too big, too important and too 
necessary. 

2743
02:02:57,360 --> 02:03:01,640
There's AUS military study by an
entity called Gavini that showed

2744
02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:04,280
that the US military is made in 
China, that like the Tomahawk, 

2745
02:03:04,280 --> 02:03:06,120
the JM, they go back to the 
Chinese suppliers. 

2746
02:03:06,360 --> 02:03:08,680
So in many ways, the entire 
concept of the US military being

2747
02:03:08,680 --> 02:03:10,320
prepared to fight China is all 
completely fake. 

2748
02:03:10,520 --> 02:03:13,960
It's just basically something 
where it's like defense spending

2749
02:03:13,960 --> 02:03:15,960
or what have you. 
It's like a defense budget 

2750
02:03:15,960 --> 02:03:18,640
thing. 
But in an actual fight it would,

2751
02:03:18,640 --> 02:03:21,440
it's just a, it's like a, it's 
completely fake, right? 

2752
02:03:22,040 --> 02:03:23,360
the US military cannot fight 
China. 

2753
02:03:23,800 --> 02:03:28,960
And so once that's actually 
priced in, then you actually 

2754
02:03:28,960 --> 02:03:32,480
realize, OK, the Chinese drone 
Armada is the most powerful 

2755
02:03:32,480 --> 02:03:33,960
physical force in the world, 
right? 

2756
02:03:33,960 --> 02:03:35,520
And I and I'm describing 
something that doesn't fully 

2757
02:03:35,520 --> 02:03:38,920
exist yet, but it will, right? 
The Chinese drone Armada where 

2758
02:03:38,920 --> 02:03:42,760
the sky is blackened by like, 
you know, this crazy kind of 

2759
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:45,640
things, right? 
Against that, I think you can't 

2760
02:03:45,640 --> 02:03:48,000
fight it directly. 
The entire American model is 

2761
02:03:48,000 --> 02:03:49,400
wrong. 
You need something more like 

2762
02:03:49,400 --> 02:03:52,880
Gandhi and non violence. 
You need the agility of the 

2763
02:03:52,880 --> 02:03:54,440
Internet. 
You need to have 

2764
02:03:54,440 --> 02:03:56,680
decentralization. 
You need to have, you know, 

2765
02:03:57,080 --> 02:03:58,440
essentially be everywhere and 
nowhere. 

2766
02:03:58,440 --> 02:04:00,600
You need a completely different 
strategy to balance the Chinese 

2767
02:04:00,600 --> 02:04:03,720
drone Armada then the tank for 
tank plane for plane model, 

2768
02:04:03,880 --> 02:04:06,520
which MAGA still invested in and
they're just wrong about. 

2769
02:04:06,520 --> 02:04:07,920
They just don't have the 
manufacturing group. 

2770
02:04:07,920 --> 02:04:09,760
They certainly don't have the 
price competitiveness right. 

2771
02:04:10,120 --> 02:04:14,680
So Gandhian non violence is, you
know, as that capital moves, you

2772
02:04:14,680 --> 02:04:18,280
know, from Greece to Rome to 
Britain to America to the 

2773
02:04:18,280 --> 02:04:20,200
Internet. 
New cultures influence it, 

2774
02:04:20,560 --> 02:04:22,600
right? 
Like British culture had a lot 

2775
02:04:22,600 --> 02:04:25,720
going for it. 
But the American fusion, you 

2776
02:04:25,720 --> 02:04:27,520
know, all these different 
European strains and African 

2777
02:04:27,520 --> 02:04:31,120
Americans and various immigrants
like added more strength to it 

2778
02:04:31,240 --> 02:04:34,200
and such that even British 
culture, as powerful as it was, 

2779
02:04:34,480 --> 02:04:37,040
you know, actually now looks up 
to American culture and American

2780
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:39,800
culture looks up to Internet 
culture there, you know, in a 

2781
02:04:39,800 --> 02:04:41,640
sense, you know how like France.
Oh, go ahead. 

2782
02:04:41,640 --> 02:04:46,200
So, so, So what I wanted to add 
to this is that so I agree with 

2783
02:04:46,200 --> 02:04:47,320
you in terms of, you know, when 
it comes. 

2784
02:04:47,320 --> 02:04:50,080
To although I do think neither 
side wants a war because it's 

2785
02:04:50,080 --> 02:04:52,000
going to be so destructive on 
each side it's just not worth it

2786
02:04:52,000 --> 02:04:54,000
because obviously there's going 
to be a lot of internal issues 

2787
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:56,400
that develop from it and one and
when it comes to that I think 

2788
02:04:56,400 --> 02:04:58,760
China will will definitely have 
a much harder time weathering it

2789
02:04:58,760 --> 02:04:59,600
than America. 
You think so? 

2790
02:05:00,280 --> 02:05:02,560
I think so really so yeah, 
because interesting because 

2791
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:08,760
because I think the the the the 
harmony of of of of of China on 

2792
02:05:08,760 --> 02:05:12,160
wars is is it's one of the 
reasons why I think it's is that

2793
02:05:12,160 --> 02:05:14,760
this is the one child policy and
they don't just demographic 

2794
02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:16,000
issues. 
Well, they don't have a flow of 

2795
02:05:16,120 --> 02:05:18,520
of of they, they, you know. 
You don't get this. 

2796
02:05:18,520 --> 02:05:20,760
Just not that obvious. 
For immigration to take place in

2797
02:05:20,760 --> 02:05:22,240
China, right? 
Just for cultural issues as 

2798
02:05:22,240 --> 02:05:24,080
well. 
It's also one of the they have 

2799
02:05:24,080 --> 02:05:25,720
visas in Hong Kong though, 
although they do. 

2800
02:05:25,960 --> 02:05:28,080
Yeah, yeah, right. 
It's like 8 billion people, so 

2801
02:05:28,640 --> 02:05:30,440
sure. 
So it's one of the reasons why I

2802
02:05:30,440 --> 02:05:32,200
know a lot of people in the US 
are saying is. 

2803
02:05:32,240 --> 02:05:34,600
China is going to invade Taiwan.
They're treating it like the 

2804
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:36,600
next to Ukraine. 
I vehemently disagree with that 

2805
02:05:36,600 --> 02:05:39,840
perspective, primarily because I
don't think first of all, she is

2806
02:05:39,840 --> 02:05:41,400
not Putin. 
The 2 are entirely different 

2807
02:05:41,400 --> 02:05:43,480
right? 
It's not like sort of that sort 

2808
02:05:43,480 --> 02:05:45,520
of acting in a vacuum. 
I think they're much, much 

2809
02:05:45,520 --> 02:05:47,160
smarter about this. 
And the second thing also is 

2810
02:05:47,160 --> 02:05:50,000
that Russia shows China what not
to do that too. 

2811
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:51,200
Have you heard you know that 
proper? 

2812
02:05:51,880 --> 02:05:53,080
Obviously, like with the 
collapse of. 

2813
02:05:53,080 --> 02:05:56,360
The Soviet Union, Russia, you 
know, Mod yes, the ideological 

2814
02:05:56,360 --> 02:05:58,640
is supposed to economics first. 
They keep showing China what not

2815
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:04,040
exactly what not to do, but also
again sort of China inside first

2816
02:06:04,040 --> 02:06:05,560
in terms of making. 
Sure that you have harmony and 

2817
02:06:05,680 --> 02:06:09,880
creating a war even that's 
external is not fruitful for 

2818
02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:13,560
internal harmony whatsoever 
right so I don't so so I think I

2819
02:06:13,560 --> 02:06:16,200
don't think China would be an 
initiator of a war regardless 

2820
02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:18,760
and I think America doesn't want
1 so I think that's one 

2821
02:06:18,760 --> 02:06:21,280
perspective but the second one 
is really when I talk about the 

2822
02:06:21,920 --> 02:06:26,760
the Internet and as you're going
in class yes exactly sure when I

2823
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:30,040
when what I was trying to say is
that we. 

2824
02:06:30,040 --> 02:06:32,320
Will still need. 
Some form of protection because 

2825
02:06:32,320 --> 02:06:34,480
we're still physical beings, 
yes, at the end of the day, 

2826
02:06:34,720 --> 02:06:36,680
whether it's police or this or 
something like this. 

2827
02:06:37,040 --> 02:06:40,680
And I think the common bond will
be the fact that we need to have

2828
02:06:40,680 --> 02:06:43,320
some some form of social 
cohesion and security totally. 

2829
02:06:43,320 --> 02:06:46,000
And we'll come together whether 
this is government network stake

2830
02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:48,160
as you say. 
And I think enough of them will 

2831
02:06:48,160 --> 02:06:50,400
then share around those values 
and come together because of 

2832
02:06:50,400 --> 02:06:51,280
that. 
Absolutely agree with this. 

2833
02:06:51,280 --> 02:06:53,840
And that's why I think these 
cloud communities can have 

2834
02:06:53,840 --> 02:06:56,000
leaders that can materialize in 
the physical world. 

2835
02:06:56,320 --> 02:06:59,440
And now people are once again 
geographically and ideologically

2836
02:06:59,440 --> 02:07:01,280
aligned. 
And what I would say, I hear 

2837
02:07:01,280 --> 02:07:03,600
your point about America 
currently split and all that 

2838
02:07:03,600 --> 02:07:07,160
kind of stuff, but if there. 
Is one place today and maybe the

2839
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:09,760
place will be somewhere else. 
Although it's hard to imagine if

2840
02:07:09,760 --> 02:07:12,400
there's one place today that's 
still, despite all the struggles

2841
02:07:12,400 --> 02:07:15,120
internally can still exist with 
this divide. 

2842
02:07:15,360 --> 02:07:17,560
It is still America in 
comparison to other places. 

2843
02:07:17,560 --> 02:07:19,240
You couldn't. 
China wouldn't survive some of 

2844
02:07:19,240 --> 02:07:21,000
this, Europe wouldn't survive 
something like this, right? 

2845
02:07:21,560 --> 02:07:25,320
I think America it's struggling.
Do not get me wrong, I agree 

2846
02:07:25,320 --> 02:07:28,840
with you completely, but if 
there's one country that has an 

2847
02:07:28,840 --> 02:07:32,000
ability to potentially deal with
it, I do think it's America 

2848
02:07:32,000 --> 02:07:33,280
because of it's history. 
So why are we? 

2849
02:07:33,320 --> 02:07:35,560
Well, but, but I understand what
you're saying. 

2850
02:07:35,600 --> 02:07:37,560
Yeah, Yeah, I think. 
I think it's kind of like saying

2851
02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:41,960
the sun will never sit in the 
British Empire, but the British.

2852
02:07:41,960 --> 02:07:43,560
Empire. 
You know that used to be a 

2853
02:07:43,560 --> 02:07:44,720
saying, right? 
But the you. 

2854
02:07:45,400 --> 02:07:48,160
Know and it was true for its 
history for hundreds of years. 

2855
02:07:48,440 --> 02:07:50,200
The sun never sit in the British
Empire, right? 

2856
02:07:50,240 --> 02:07:51,840
But the British Empire was not 
an idea. 

2857
02:07:52,840 --> 02:07:54,600
It was more so than anything 
before. 

2858
02:07:54,600 --> 02:07:55,960
Because it will actually like. 
This. 

2859
02:07:57,760 --> 02:08:01,080
Yes, one last thing right so 
common law and the Magna Carta, 

2860
02:08:01,080 --> 02:08:04,120
yeah was a crucial thing that 
made the father of property 

2861
02:08:04,160 --> 02:08:05,480
rights. 
Exactly, that's right, exactly 

2862
02:08:05,480 --> 02:08:08,360
so So Britain was closer to an 
idea than. 

2863
02:08:08,360 --> 02:08:10,800
Any other? 
European country, right? 

2864
02:08:11,000 --> 02:08:14,400
It was more abstracted out. 
That's why it was also naval 

2865
02:08:14,400 --> 02:08:16,040
power. 
It's a combination of geography,

2866
02:08:16,040 --> 02:08:17,400
the ideas there and then 
America. 

2867
02:08:17,400 --> 02:08:19,560
I just want at one point. 
Also, I think the English 

2868
02:08:19,560 --> 02:08:21,800
language is also part of that. 
Yes, because the English 

2869
02:08:21,800 --> 02:08:25,560
language is such a fluid. 
Language and I think broadly a 

2870
02:08:25,560 --> 02:08:27,800
much more optimistic. 
So I grew up speaking German, 

2871
02:08:27,960 --> 02:08:29,880
right? 
Because it's my mother tongue, 

2872
02:08:29,880 --> 02:08:32,200
because I'm good in Europe and 
German is an incredibly precise 

2873
02:08:32,200 --> 02:08:33,360
language. 
You don't have this joke about 

2874
02:08:33,560 --> 02:08:35,840
unless you put the verb at the 
end of the synthetized, the 

2875
02:08:35,840 --> 02:08:37,840
entire paragraph you just said 
makes no sense, right? 

2876
02:08:38,120 --> 02:08:41,520
So it's partially true because 
of that position, but it also 

2877
02:08:41,520 --> 02:08:47,400
makes for a nation of people 
more precise and frankly more 

2878
02:08:47,680 --> 02:08:52,160
sort of half glass, sort of 
empty as half as full 

2879
02:08:52,160 --> 02:08:54,200
perspective. 
And I find that in the English 

2880
02:08:54,200 --> 02:08:57,320
language, you have the ability 
to be much more nuanced and you 

2881
02:08:57,320 --> 02:08:59,960
can be more, let's say, 
packaged. 

2882
02:08:59,960 --> 02:09:01,400
And maybe it's more political as
well. 

2883
02:09:01,400 --> 02:09:05,600
And as a result, we can phrase 
things much more positively and 

2884
02:09:05,600 --> 02:09:07,600
optimistically than German as an
example. 

2885
02:09:07,600 --> 02:09:09,160
Yeah. 
It's, it's it's I think it adds 

2886
02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:10,080
to that flavor. 
Yeah. 

2887
02:09:10,120 --> 02:09:13,000
I mean, people have, there's a, 
oh gosh, there's a Spanish 

2888
02:09:13,000 --> 02:09:14,360
writer who made. 
This point he's like. 

2889
02:09:14,600 --> 02:09:16,680
There's like a Latin. 
And German version of every 

2890
02:09:16,680 --> 02:09:18,920
word. 
So like, you know, or like for 

2891
02:09:18,920 --> 02:09:23,960
you've you've there's chicken, 
but there's are like a beef, but

2892
02:09:23,960 --> 02:09:27,160
there's mud in and you know, you
have the the short German word 

2893
02:09:27,160 --> 02:09:29,040
for something and you have the 
longer Latin word for it. 

2894
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:31,520
So there's a lot of variety and 
you can mix these up and, you 

2895
02:09:31,520 --> 02:09:34,480
know, Regal is different from, 
you know, royal, that kind of 

2896
02:09:34,480 --> 02:09:36,080
stuff, right. 
Anyway, so you're right. 

2897
02:09:36,280 --> 02:09:39,400
But so that's why I do think 
English is the language of the 

2898
02:09:39,400 --> 02:09:43,680
Internet. 
And you know, in a sense this 

2899
02:09:45,160 --> 02:09:47,920
we're call it interaction 
balance, whatever of this 21st 

2900
02:09:47,920 --> 02:09:50,680
century. 
And again, it's in a sense EUR 

2901
02:09:50,680 --> 02:09:54,360
Asian communism versus 
Anglospheric capitalism, right? 

2902
02:09:54,680 --> 02:09:57,200
So except the EUR Asian 
communism I'd actually put on 

2903
02:09:57,200 --> 02:10:00,080
the right this time, and the 
Anglopher capitalism I put on 

2904
02:10:00,080 --> 02:10:02,960
the left because the Internet is
sort of the more anarchic kind 

2905
02:10:02,960 --> 02:10:05,280
of capitalism freedom, you know,
and so on and so forth. 

2906
02:10:05,560 --> 02:10:08,720
Whereas China's more ordered 
kind of communism and more 

2907
02:10:08,720 --> 02:10:13,280
nationalistic, right And so it's
almost like the the world has 

2908
02:10:13,280 --> 02:10:15,720
these certain confirmations and 
again, the capital move from 

2909
02:10:15,720 --> 02:10:17,720
Moscow to Beijing of EUR Asian 
communism, right. 

2910
02:10:18,160 --> 02:10:19,640
But it's still a land power 
fundamentally. 

2911
02:10:19,640 --> 02:10:21,560
Yes, yeah. 
What you what, what I'm kind of 

2912
02:10:21,560 --> 02:10:23,800
hearing is you're saying, you're
saying sort of just to back to 

2913
02:10:23,800 --> 02:10:24,960
the point about sort of the, 
the. 

2914
02:10:25,000 --> 02:10:28,560
Sort of the British Empire is 
that the British Empire itself 

2915
02:10:29,120 --> 02:10:32,280
obviously is no longer what it 
used to be, clearly, but the 

2916
02:10:32,280 --> 02:10:35,400
ideas of the people in the 
British Empire, right. 

2917
02:10:35,400 --> 02:10:39,080
Have have have have basically 
migrated into America. 

2918
02:10:39,680 --> 02:10:42,440
Yes, right. 
I mean, sort of Locke didn't 

2919
02:10:42,440 --> 02:10:46,480
have success in politically in 
the UK as much as it influenced 

2920
02:10:46,480 --> 02:10:47,800
what happened in America. 
That's right. 

2921
02:10:47,800 --> 02:10:49,960
Yeah. 
But but now America's like 20% 

2922
02:10:49,960 --> 02:10:51,200
WASP or something like that, 
right. 

2923
02:10:51,440 --> 02:10:53,560
So like it wasn't like that 
before, though. 

2924
02:10:53,560 --> 02:10:55,160
It was like. 
Before, that's right, yes, so, 

2925
02:10:55,240 --> 02:10:58,200
but the torch got passed and 
think of it as like software. 

2926
02:10:58,200 --> 02:11:00,800
Versus hardware right the. 
Software, the values and the 

2927
02:11:00,800 --> 02:11:04,680
hardware is the people. 
And you can have, you know, when

2928
02:11:04,680 --> 02:11:06,520
the software and hardware are 
fully aligned, everything's 

2929
02:11:06,520 --> 02:11:08,760
great, right? 
But you can also have cultures 

2930
02:11:08,760 --> 02:11:11,520
pass on just like algebra came 
from the Middle East or what 

2931
02:11:11,520 --> 02:11:14,200
have you, or zero came from 
India or gunpowder from China. 

2932
02:11:14,400 --> 02:11:16,160
There's cultural things that can
spread, right? 

2933
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:19,120
Even independent of the people. 
And then vice versa, right? 

2934
02:11:19,280 --> 02:11:21,800
People can have totally 
different, their software can be

2935
02:11:21,800 --> 02:11:24,240
wiped and you can have N Koreans
and S Koreans with totally 

2936
02:11:24,240 --> 02:11:26,360
different software on very 
similar hardware, so to speak, 

2937
02:11:26,360 --> 02:11:29,440
right? 
And the way I think about it is 

2938
02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:32,920
the Constitution came after 
English common law, then only 

2939
02:11:32,920 --> 02:11:35,600
scaled to America. 
But the blockchain scales to the

2940
02:11:35,600 --> 02:11:36,880
Internet. 
Yes, Right. 

2941
02:11:37,000 --> 02:11:38,520
Yes. 
So all the values of America, 

2942
02:11:38,520 --> 02:11:43,160
which I think we both value free
speech, free markets, you know, 

2943
02:11:43,320 --> 02:11:45,480
privacy, sovereignty, rights, 
everything. 

2944
02:11:45,480 --> 02:11:47,480
Yes. 
All of those are guaranteed by 

2945
02:11:47,480 --> 02:11:50,600
encryption and by the Internet, 
not by American courts. 

2946
02:11:52,040 --> 02:11:54,240
Right, Like Delaware doesn't. 
Yes, Delaware doesn't protect 

2947
02:11:54,240 --> 02:11:55,840
your property rights, but the 
blockchain does. 

2948
02:11:55,840 --> 02:11:57,280
Go ahead. 
But there is a consensus. 

2949
02:11:57,280 --> 02:12:00,680
That comes from the agreement we
have with the society and some, 

2950
02:12:00,680 --> 02:12:04,760
and I guess we probably both 
agree that the consensus of 

2951
02:12:04,760 --> 02:12:08,840
proof is enough rather than 
necessarily needing a state to 

2952
02:12:08,840 --> 02:12:11,560
enforce it, so to speak, right, 
because if someone well, let's 

2953
02:12:11,560 --> 02:12:12,840
see Bitcoin. 
So the thing to your point about

2954
02:12:12,840 --> 02:12:15,000
in the military like Bitcoin has
gotten to a trillion without 

2955
02:12:15,000 --> 02:12:17,160
violence, yes has has no has no 
armies. 

2956
02:12:17,160 --> 02:12:19,760
Has no, but it's only different.
But what What if someone steals 

2957
02:12:19,760 --> 02:12:21,240
your Bitcoin? 
You still need someone to try to

2958
02:12:21,240 --> 02:12:25,720
enforce to return it well, so. 
The thing is that yes but but 

2959
02:12:26,320 --> 02:12:27,560
does it mean? 
That's what I mean, right? 

2960
02:12:27,680 --> 02:12:30,440
But, but, but. 
But like can you get a return? 

2961
02:12:30,440 --> 02:12:32,760
I mean, Bitcoin depth is kind. 
Of irreversible right? 

2962
02:12:32,920 --> 02:12:35,400
It's very difficult, like if. 
A Brazilian takes it from 

2963
02:12:35,400 --> 02:12:39,680
someone in Turkey like for 
better or for worse, code is 

2964
02:12:39,680 --> 02:12:43,600
law, right? 
So you have, and of course you 

2965
02:12:43,600 --> 02:12:46,040
could instead store it non BTC, 
but some other thing where 

2966
02:12:46,040 --> 02:12:48,280
there's a, there's a digital 
reset and there's System 

2967
02:12:48,280 --> 02:12:50,760
Administrator and centralized 
and you could have USTC freeze 

2968
02:12:50,760 --> 02:12:52,960
it and reverse it and so on. 
And those things have arisen 

2969
02:12:52,960 --> 02:12:55,440
because people do want that, but
they also have a balance like 

2970
02:12:55,560 --> 02:12:57,600
here's the amount that's totally
with me, but it can also be 

2971
02:12:57,600 --> 02:12:58,640
stolen. 
Here's the amount that was 

2972
02:12:58,640 --> 02:13:00,240
centralized custodian and it 
could be reversed. 

2973
02:13:00,560 --> 02:13:02,840
But I don't think the police are
really that helpful. 

2974
02:13:02,840 --> 02:13:05,600
They're like somewhat helpful. 
Maybe at times it's a really big

2975
02:13:05,600 --> 02:13:07,600
theft and so on. 
But most of them, they're not 

2976
02:13:07,600 --> 02:13:10,000
helpful. 
So without a system of 

2977
02:13:10,000 --> 02:13:14,440
enforcement, I think while most 
can be careful about it, it does

2978
02:13:14,440 --> 02:13:16,880
I think. 
It does create a scenario where 

2979
02:13:16,880 --> 02:13:19,480
people are going to be more like
for, for a certain subset. 

2980
02:13:19,480 --> 02:13:21,400
Again, it's not the majority, 
but a small subset sees 

2981
02:13:21,400 --> 02:13:22,800
opportunities. 
Yes, yes, yes, that's right. 

2982
02:13:22,800 --> 02:13:25,720
So that's why that's like that's
like network versus state, 

2983
02:13:25,720 --> 02:13:27,240
right? 
This is like total network. 

2984
02:13:27,240 --> 02:13:28,880
But then some police are the 
total state. 

2985
02:13:29,200 --> 02:13:31,760
And then if you go far enough 
this direction, they don't want 

2986
02:13:31,760 --> 02:13:34,080
crypto to exist at all, right? 
So that balance is I think this 

2987
02:13:34,080 --> 02:13:35,080
century. 
Exactly, exactly. 

2988
02:13:35,080 --> 02:13:36,480
And then we have to go to the 
pendulum shift. 

2989
02:13:36,480 --> 02:13:38,360
But OK, but why don't we wrap 
for these? 

2990
02:13:38,360 --> 02:13:39,680
OK, good, right. 
Let's ask you some. 

2991
02:13:40,400 --> 02:13:41,080
Of them. 
OK, good. 

2992
02:13:41,080 --> 02:13:42,280
Alright, I'll see you soon. 
Thank you.