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Jesse, welcome to Newark State 
Podcast. 

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Thanks for having me. 
You and I have kind of had an 

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ongoing sort of philosophical 
discussion for many years on how

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libertarians can learn from 
progressives and progressives 

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can learn from libertarians. 
And it's, it's funny because I 

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went so far libertarian that it 
became like a progressive and 

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I'm like, you know, I need to do
community building. 

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I need to do community 
organizing. 

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Go ahead. 
No, yeah, it's exactly right. 

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I mean, this is when I think 
back to our time at Coinbase, I,

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I feel like so much of the, the 
fun that we had was thinking 

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about how are all of these 
different political philosophy 

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is going to be kind of rewritten
in this new world where the 

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Internet defines all of us. 
And we're actually all looking 

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for kind of new frameworks to 
think about how the world can 

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come together and how the world 
can can be better than it has 

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been in the past. 
So let's go through base. 

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It's it's really funny how 
Coinbase was so well named that 

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it managed to not just be like 
easy to pronounce and pass the 

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bar test, but it was also based 
later on, you know, like you 

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managed to launch base when 
based. 

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Go ahead. 
Yeah. 

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No, I mean, I think that one of 
the things I've always felt 

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about Base is that we just got 
incredibly lucky in having a 

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name that we could borrow from 
Coinbase that kind of brought 

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over the trust that had such a 
metaphorical meaning in terms of

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being this platform that 
everyone can build on that was 

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associated with the cultural 
phenomenon. 

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Like based that was 4 letters, 
really easy to pronounce, 

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totally globally accessible. 
You know, I think I think 

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there's probably a lot of things
we could have gone wrong and the

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name still would have been 
really, really great. 

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But luckily over the last two 
years of building, I think we've

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got a lot of things right. 
And today, for those who are 

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maybe listening to this for the 
first time, base is one of the 

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largest change in the world. 
It's an etherium layer 2. 

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There's thousands and thousands 
of builders all around the world

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who are choosing to build on 
base to help us build this 

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global on chain economy that we 
think is going to massively 

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increase economic freedom, 
innovation and creativity around

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the world. 
You know, one thing I think 

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about and let's go into details 
is base is interesting because 

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it's a coin less chain in the 
sense of there isn't a native 

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asset on the chain, but it is it
is still useful. 

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And one way of thinking about it
is that coin, the stock is like 

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sort of the quasi native asset 
of base. 

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So it's not, you know, directly 
there or another way of thinking

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about it is it actually takes 
aspects of block chains that we 

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didn't think you could take. 
You know, you didn't think 

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people didn't think you could 
run a block chain without a 

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coin, but you can you can run as
like an open state database, 

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right? 
Maybe you have some thoughts on 

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that and let's get into the 
details of how base works. 

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Yeah. 
I mean, from the beginning of 

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base, one of the theses that we 
had was if we just focused on 

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building a really great product 
that solved problems for 

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developers and creators and 
consumers, that was going to be 

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a way higher leverage way for us
to bring this to market than 

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what we've kind of seen for the 
last few years in terms of 

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people really focusing on the 
coin and token side of things. 

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And I think that's proven out to
be true. 

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It's been a really good forcing 
function for us, right? 

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You know, whereas I think a lot 
of folks who've been building 

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chains otherwise, they said, 
hey, we're going to have a coin 

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and then we're going to use that
coin to pay people to come and 

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build with us. 
And we're going to kind of use 

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that as a shortcut to try and 
kind of jump start this the 

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network effects that that's 
required to be here. 

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We didn't have that luxury. 
Instead, we had to go and say, 

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hey, we're going to go fight for
every single customer, every 

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single developer, every single 
creator, every single user. 

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We're going to go have to win 
them on the merits of using base

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because it's faster, because 
it's cheaper, because it's 

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easier to build on, because 
it's, you know, more more 

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connected to create on, because 
you can do things that you 

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wouldn't be able to do anywhere 
else. 

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And I think that that's been a 
really good forcing function for

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us to just make sure that we're 
always building the right 

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product. 
All right, so I want to go like 

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kind of top to bottom. 
So let's start with the 

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technical parts of base and then
I want to get to why I think 

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base and, and tools like it are 
base for building new societies,

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startup societies, network 
states. 

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And so it's OK, great. 
So what is the problem that base

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was created to solve? 
I I know this is super basic but

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you know, go a. 100%, I've been 
at Coinbase for five years, 

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Apology and I got to overlap 
when he was CTO, it was some of 

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the most powerful learning 
experiences I ever had getting 

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to watch him operate inside of 
the company. 

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And in those five years, I built
the consumer business that coin,

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so Coinbase, Coinbase Pro, 
Coinbase Wallet. 

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And then after doing that for 
five years, I had this idea of 

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if we wanted to accelerate 
global crypto adoption, Coinbase

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was a crypto company, but it 
wasn't yet an on chain company. 

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It'd been started in 2012. 
It didn't know how to write 

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smart contracts there. 
There weren't engineers who were

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kind of building on chain every 
day. 

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And it felt kind of like the 
early days of the Internet where

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there were going to be companies
that figured out, OK, how do we 

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do this transformation to really
become an Internet company, to 

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be a native Internet company? 
And if a big company like 

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Coinbase could do that first, 
then other people could follow. 

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And so that was kind of the 
initial thesis behind the the 

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conception of base was how do we
make Coinbase a truly on chain 

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company? 
And we went through a bunch of 

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different product iterations. 
We tried a bunch of things. 

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None of them worked. 
They all failed. 

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And all of the, the kind of 
learnings from that pointed us 

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to this idea, which was in order
for Coinbase to be an on chain 

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company, we actually needed a 
platform where we could build 

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the on chain products and 
services that would help 

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Coinbase be more efficient, help
Coinbase get more global scale, 

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help Coinbase leverage this 
technology to build a Better 

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Business. 
And so that was really the 

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initial conception of base. 
It was let's build the platform 

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that enables Coinbase to make 
this transition. 

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And then once we started doing 
that, we were like, OK, well, if

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we're going to build this for 
Coinbase, Coinbase is going to 

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want the best platform in the 
world. 

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And the best platform in the 
world is actually going to be an

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open platform where anyone else 
in the world can also benefit 

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from that technology stack and 
can also benefit from plugging 

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in, you know, as you like to 
say, to the open state database 

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and all of the APIs that 
Coinbase can kind of bring on 

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chain, whether that's on ramps 
or off ramps or payments or 

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whatever it is that that, you 
know, people need in order to 

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build. 
That's what base became. 

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It kind of became this platform 
built for builders by the 

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builders of Coinbase, originally
to solve some of Coinbase's 

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problems and coming on chain, 
but now I think really to enable

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and accelerate the rate at which
the entire world can come on 

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chain. 
Awesome. 

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And I think actually in a sense,
you can almost think of base as 

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like the next version of 
Coinbase's API's where you're 

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not just querying Coinbase's 
server for data. 

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You've got this open state 
database where you can write and

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read to it and so on and so 
forth. 

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And in a sense, it's maintained 
by Coinbase, but it is also 

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something that is more open than
a traditional API. 

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It's kind of the next iteration 
of it. 

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Would you agree with that or do 
you disagree with that? 

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Yeah, exactly. 
And I, I think back to, you 

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know, some of the presentations 
you gave when you were at 

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Coinbase where you were talking 
about, you know, how do we get 

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more verbs, crypto verbs for 
people to do? 

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And this was like a thing that 
Balaji says, we have a few verbs

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buy and sell right now, but we 
need to expand to hundreds of 

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verbs. 
And one of the ways I like to 

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think about Base is it's almost 
the perfect platform for 

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enabling rapid expansion of 
verbs because rather than one 

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corporation maybe in a 
traditional API or serverless 

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environment, one corporation 
having to add every single new 

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API or every single new verb 
that you can do. 

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The really powerful thing about 
a chain like Base is that it's 

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an open platform where everyone 
can add new verbs. 

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Every smart contract that a 
developer deploys is a new verb 

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that some other developer can 
call. 

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And So what that enables is it 
enables very rapid expansion in 

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what's possible and what 
capabilities both builders and 

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consumers have on the chain. 
So I think when I was thinking 

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early on in the journey of base,
I thought back a lot to those 

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conversations that we had where 
you were really just hammering 

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how do we get more verbs? 
Because verbs are how you expand

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the GDP of the global on chain 
economy by giving people the 

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actual tools and capabilities to
transact on chain, to buy, to 

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sell, to borrow, to lend, to do 
all of these things that have 

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historically been very complex, 
very expensive, and very kind of

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locked out for a lot of people 
in the traditional world. 

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Yes, exactly. 
And just the nouns and the 

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verbs, right. 
So just for folks who know what 

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we're referring to, a noun was 
something like AI should have 

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published this at that time in 
2018. 

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But basically nouns are like a 
minor, a holder, right? 

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A wallet, right? 
And verbs buy, sell, send, 

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receive, but then also stake, 
burn, mint, right? 

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All this kind of stuff, right? 
And you're exactly right that 

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essentially the innovation, one 
way of thinking about block 

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chains is, you know, Coinbase or
any company, Twitter, for 

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example, it can't put its 
Postgres database in public. 

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It can't give everybody the root
password to its Postgres, but it

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can put a chain in public and 
everybody has read and write 

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access to that. 
And the consensus algorithm 

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ensures it's not corrupted, 
which would happen with just a 

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Postgres database that was 
naively, you know, open up to 

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the world. 
And so, so because everybody has

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read and write access, they can 
add the smart contracts which as

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you see have the verbs and 
actually also can also add the 

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NFTS which add new or help add 
new nouns. 

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And you know, different user 
types are also new nouns. 

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And in a sense like the smart 
contracts are on chain code and 

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the NFTS are on chain data, 
right? 

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So so now help me understand how
does base work technically? 

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How does it work in terms of 
validation of blocks and so on 

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and so forth. 
Let me understand that. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
And and before I jump to that, 

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one thing I do want to say is, 
you know you mentioned kind of 

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you can think about base as you 
know an extension of Coinbase or

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an on chain open version of 
Coinbase where you have access 

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to these API's. 
And I think that was like almost

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the initial conception of base. 
But one of the things that we 

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realized very early on is that 
the opportunity is actually much

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bigger. 
It's much bigger than being a 

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single company where you can 
kind of have give everyone 

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access. 
It's it's really the opportunity

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to build a global economy. 
And if we want to build a global

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economy that everyone can 
participate in, one of the 

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things that we realized very 
early on is it can't be 

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controlled by one company. 
The only way to do that is to 

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build a decentralized platform. 
Because if you're not 

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decentralized, inevitably either
a single corporation or a single

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state will get into a place 
where it tries to Co opt that 

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platform for itself. 
And so from the beginning of 

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Base, and this gets into our 
technical architecture, we've 

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been very, very committed to 
decentralizing Base to make it 

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so that everyone can feel 
confident that they can build on

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this global platform and trust 
that it's a neutral place for 

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them to contribute to the global
economy. 

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So how do we do that? 
Base is built as an Ethereum 

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layer too. 
If you don't know what Ethereum 

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is, Ethereum is the most secure,
decentralized, scalable L1 

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platform for writing smart 
contracts. 

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But one of the challenges with 
Ethereum is that that it's built

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to be maximally decentralized, 
which meant that costs for doing

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things kind of got higher and 
higher. 

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And so Ethereum took this, the 
scaling strategy, which was 

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let's expand the kind of surface
area of Ethereum by letting 

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00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,360
people build and enabling people
to build layer twos on top, 

228
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,880
which let you kind of bootstrap 
off of that decentralization of 

229
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Ethereum while bringing much 
more scalability and driving 

230
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,280
down the costs of how much it 
actually costs to use choose the

231
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,640
chain. 
And So what we do is we 

232
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,160
basically take transactions, we 
batch them, we publish them to 

233
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Ethereum, and that lets us get 
the best of both worlds. 

234
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,720
And so today base is kind of 
processing, you know, every 

235
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second hundreds of transactions 
and bringing all of those to 

236
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Ethereum, letting us kind of 
bootstrap off of that 

237
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,240
decentralization, provide those 
same decentralization guarantees

238
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,440
to customers, but get really, 
really great cost savings and 

239
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,760
make it more accessible for more
people to come on chain. 

240
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,480
Interesting. 
SO you want to describe kind of 

241
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,240
how you know optimistic roll ups
work and sequencing. 

242
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,240
And you know, one thing I was 
actually researching and I was 

243
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,200
just thinking is like how many 
disputes have actually had? 

244
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,240
Well, first why don't you 
describe how do optimistic roll 

245
00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:07,480
ups work for somebody who 
doesn't know? 

246
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,920
Yeah. 
So base is an optimistic roll 

247
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,000
up, which basically means that 
when we're doing this kind of 

248
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:17,160
batching of transactions and 
submitting them to L1, we're 

249
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,040
doing that optimistically. 
And so that basically means that

250
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,440
people are not trusting. 
But the way the mechanic works 

251
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:30,520
is you assume that the batches 
are faithfully posted to 

252
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:35,320
Ethereum and that's done in a 
way that kind of preserves the 

253
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:38,640
mechanic. 
But there's a mechanism called a

254
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,400
fault proof or a challenge where
someone could say, hey, the 

255
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,840
sequencer, which is this kind of
entity that's taking those 

256
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,160
transactions and batching them 
and publishing them to Ethereum 

257
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,920
did something malicious. 
Now we're going to challenge 

258
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,640
that and there's going to be a 
game where there's kind of 

259
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,480
economic incentives involved to 
kind of identify where that 

260
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,440
malicious activity was and 
unwind it. 

261
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:03,120
And So what that means is it 
means that rather than doing 

262
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,080
computation on every single 
transaction, you actually get to

263
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,680
drive down the cost. 
So in 99.99% of the time, you're

264
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:12,480
actually not having to do 
anything because it's 

265
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,040
optimistically accepted. 
And then in that point, OO 1% of

266
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:18,400
the time, there's a mechanism 
for making sure that there's 

267
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,000
still safe for users. 
Another really important kind of

268
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,960
part of this design is that the 
way it's built is that there's 

269
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,680
not just one way to transact on 
the chain. 

270
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,360
If you were kind of just able to
go through the sequencer, one of

271
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,400
the concerns would be, OK, you 
can only go through the 

272
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:36,920
sequencer. 
What if the sequencer does 

273
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,880
something malicious in terms of 
censoring your transaction? 

274
00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,920
And so the way these optimistic 
roles like base are built is 

275
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,920
they're built to also enable 
people to submit transactions 

276
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,720
through Ethereum. 
And what that means is it's kind

277
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,160
of like an escape hatch where 
you have this guarantee that 

278
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,880
transactions can be forced into 
Ethereum, which gives you much 

279
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,360
greater certainty that your 
transaction can't and won't be 

280
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,640
censored. 
And so that's the construction 

281
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,400
that base uses today. 
Now, one thing I will say about 

282
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base is that we've built it on 
something called the OP stack, 

283
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,520
which is this open source kind 
of standard for for building 

284
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,360
layer twos. 
And one of the really powerful 

285
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,240
things about the OP stack is 
that it's designed such that the

286
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,960
proving mechanism, which is this
optimistic roll up kind of 

287
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,440
construction that we talked 
about is modular. 

288
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,520
And so we've started with an 
optimistic roll up, but we 

289
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:27,240
actually have in production 
right now, there's a team that 

290
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:32,480
is proving every block on base 
with a ZK Prover as well, which 

291
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,800
is kind of using ZK zero 
knowledge proofs to validate 

292
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,680
that every block is there. 
We've also seen teams experiment

293
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,720
with what are called trusted 
execution environments where you

294
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,120
kind of have hardware devices 
that are kind of provable that 

295
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,200
they're, they're signing the 
transactions and kind of 

296
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,360
validating and they're using 
that to prove blocks. 

297
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,080
And I think where we'll end up 
with base in the in the next 

298
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,760
year or so is rather than having
one mechanism that's securing 

299
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,640
base, we'll actually have more 
knowledge. 

300
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,680
Of TE you have some. 
Degree of you have optimistic, 

301
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,120
you have 0 knowledge, they all 
sit on top of each other, and 

302
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:11,040
then you can kind of have a game
where if any one of them is 

303
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:13,240
signaling, hey, there's 
something going wrong, there's 

304
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:15,520
something malicious here. 
Then you kind of layer them on 

305
00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:17,560
top of each other. 
And that's one of the ways we're

306
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,560
going to be able to remove more 
and more trust out of the system

307
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,680
and make it kind of inherit even
more of the decentralization and

308
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,280
security of Ethereum. 
Awesome. 

309
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:30,960
SO well, now you also have a a 
goal for progressive 

310
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,400
decentralization of like 
sequencing and and validation 

311
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:35,480
and so on, right? 
Go ahead. 

312
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:36,960
Yeah. 
And so, you know, there's this 

313
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,080
framework that Vitalik who who 
created Ethereum uses to kind of

314
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,080
define the decentralization of 
these roll ups, Stage zero, 

315
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,400
stage 1, stage two, kind of 
three levels of 

316
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,200
decentralization. 
Base started as a stage 0 roll 

317
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:54,200
up, which has training wheels. 
We are about to become a stage 1

318
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,200
roll up after a lot of hard work
from the team. 

319
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,840
I don't know exactly when this 
podcast is going to come out, 

320
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,840
but it is either going to 
happen, you know, immediately 

321
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,720
before this podcast comes out or
immediately after. 

322
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,720
And so that's a huge milestone 
that I'm super, super excited 

323
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,920
about. 
And it's just one more step in 

324
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,000
our kind of commitment to making
Base this decentralized platform

325
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,480
that anyone can build on. 
And then from here, we're going 

326
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,240
to be doing more work to get to 
Stage 2. 

327
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,440
That involves kind of getting to
this multi prover environment 

328
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,720
where we have multiple ways of 
validating the chain. 

329
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,760
It also involves increasing kind
of the decentralization, the way

330
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,840
people submit transactions to 
base through the sequencer. 

331
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:33,800
We actually have some really 
cool work that we're doing right

332
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,600
now with a team called Flash 
Blocks, which is helping us 

333
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,960
start with what's called builder
decentralization, where 

334
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,400
basically there's going to be 
the opportunity for multiple 

335
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,040
people to build blocks, which 
will make the kind of market 

336
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,320
more efficient for base because 
you'll have some kind of 

337
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:55,720
competition in how people are 
able to submit transactions and 

338
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,360
look for MEV. 
And so that's a really good 

339
00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,760
first step. 
And then from there, we're gonna

340
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,520
kind of bring further 
decentralization to the 

341
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:03,800
sequencer. 
Awesome. 

342
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:07,240
Now what kinds of things can 
people do on base? 

343
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,280
Can they do anything they can do
on any L2? 

344
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,880
Are there unique things like 
what you know, what kinds of 

345
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:15,240
things do you think are? 
Yeah, go ahead. 

346
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:17,400
Yeah. 
I mean, I think at this point, 

347
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:23,000
in terms of day-to-day usage of 
crypto, there's probably not 

348
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,560
another chain in the world where
you have more people doing kind 

349
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,240
of everyday things and so you 
have people using payments. 

350
00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,160
In terms of social products 
though, this is really what's 

351
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,360
shining on base right now. 
If you look at Farcaster, this 

352
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:40,360
is the kind of fastest growing 
on chain social network. 

353
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,920
The vast majority of mini apps 
built on Forecaster, 

354
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,080
transactions happening on 
Forecaster are built on base. 

355
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,320
And I think that that's like a 
daily habit that 10s of 

356
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,720
thousands of people are doing 
right now. 

357
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,040
It's still early in the grand 
scheme of things, but I'm super,

358
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,120
super excited about that. 
And you know, you're on 

359
00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:00,920
Forecaster, I'm on Forecaster. 
We also have creator social 

360
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,240
products like Zora, where you 
have creators all around the 

361
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,240
world who are starting to bring 
their creativity on chain, have 

362
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,240
it more directly valued by the 
free market, and then actually 

363
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,320
able to capture that value to to
help fund future work and to to 

364
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,560
live a better life. 
And so I think that social 

365
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,280
domain is a really, really rich 
one on base and probably the 

366
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,960
place where, you know, in terms 
of any other chain in the world,

367
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,600
I don't think there's anyone who
has more social activity than 

368
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,520
than what's happening on base. 
And then I'd say there's a long 

369
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,920
tail of other use cases. 
You know, we have Blackbird, 

370
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,600
which is building kind of 
restaurants on chain and 

371
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,840
onboarded hundreds of 
restaurants in the United 

372
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,880
States. 
We have, you know, people who 

373
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,560
are building pretty much every 
part of the application spectrum

374
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,680
and we're just excited to see 
all of it happen faster and 

375
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,760
faster. 
You know, a few years ago, Moxie

376
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,400
Marlinspike wrote this piece 
which said something like, oh, 

377
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,880
you know, what's weird about 
these crypto apps is they have, 

378
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,520
he's very good engineer. 
Obviously he built Signal and so

379
00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:58,960
and so forth. 
But it's interesting. 

380
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,480
His framework was these crypto 
apps have like the minimum level

381
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,800
of decentralization they need to
kind of get out there. 

382
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,480
And he's phrasing this as 
negative thing. 

383
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,560
And I, I was surprised when he 
wrote this because my response 

384
00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,200
was that's because block space 
is a fundamental constraint of 

385
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,280
crypto in the same way that 
bandwidth was a fundamental 

386
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,960
constraint of the early web and 
everything on the web in the 

387
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,920
90s. 
Like, you know, Amazon, Yahoo, 

388
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,200
Google was constrained where, 
you know, I think Amazon's book 

389
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,760
descriptions didn't even have 
images at 1st and Google was 

390
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,680
just put in text, get out text, 
right images. 

391
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,920
You know, digital cameras were 
only really widespread by the 

392
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,440
mid 2000s and Facebook only 
worked because Harvard had T1 

393
00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,240
connections and so people could 
put digital camera images and 

394
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,000
people had like one or two 
digital images of themselves. 

395
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,120
They didn't have, you know, 
camera phones and so on and so 

396
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:52,320
forth. 
So bandwidth is a constraint on 

397
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,920
the Internet for a long time and
block space was a constraint for

398
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,320
crypto apps for a long time. 
So that's one way of thinking 

399
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,320
about like what base does, 
right? 

400
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,560
It radically increases the 
amount of block spaces 

401
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,360
available. 
That's what L twos do in general

402
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,880
and how much more block spaces 
are and what kinds of things can

403
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,640
go on chain. 
And what do you think is still 

404
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,880
infeasible? 
For example, Forecaster still 

405
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,200
has its own. 
You know Postgres, right? 

406
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,040
That you can? 
Run separately. 

407
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,440
So what what do you think is the
right thing to put on Ethereum 

408
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,480
versus on base versus on you 
know an app specific database 

409
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,640
like Farcast or how do you think
about the division of data 

410
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:27,760
there? 
Yeah, it's a really good 

411
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,360
question. 
And I, I think your point is 

412
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,440
exactly right, which is that we 
need to increase the bandwidth 

413
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,320
of block chains in order to 
enable more use cases. 

414
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,480
And I think kind of L2's and in 
this recent adoption of, of more

415
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,400
scalable changes, kind of that 
broadband moment where we went 

416
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,280
from dial up to having enough 
bandwidth to start to build, 

417
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,200
build real applications in the 
early days of the Internet. 

418
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,880
And really the way we think 
about that is driving down the 

419
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,720
cost of most transactions to sub
cent is really this kind of 

420
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,320
shelling point where once you 
get sub cent, people stop 

421
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,640
thinking about the costs and 
they start being able to build 

422
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,800
really, really powerful things. 
And so, you know, right now on 

423
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,600
base, you can send a payment to 
anyone for a fraction of a cent.

424
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,320
You can mint an NFT, you can buy
a coin, you can trade, you can 

425
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,720
post something on social media. 
And so I think that's this kind 

426
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,600
of milestone that we just 
crossed in the last year or so 

427
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,320
that's leading to a ton of 
economic activity and a ton of 

428
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,800
growth. 
Now, in terms of how I think 

429
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,400
this is all going to shake out, 
I've broadly started thinking 

430
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,120
about this as kind of like tiers
of applications or tiers of use 

431
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:31,040
cases, kind of like the 
Internet. 

432
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,520
You know, the Internet's 
actually architected in like 3 

433
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,560
tiers. 
There's like Tier 1 ISPs, Tier 2

434
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,000
ISPs, tier 3 ISPs. 
And I think that what we'll see 

435
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,120
as more and more of the world's 
kind of compute comes on chain 

436
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,440
is the same rough architecture 
will happen in the on chain 

437
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,440
world. 
And so that will look like L 

438
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,200
ones that sit at the bottom that
provide kind of maximal 

439
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,760
decentralization. 
And this kind of scalable 

440
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,880
platform that people can build 
on that they know is going to be

441
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,840
neutral kind of as a technology 
platform, almost like a pure 

442
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:02,960
piece of infrastructure. 
So that's going to be layer one.

443
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,480
That's going to be things like 
Ethereum and Slana. 

444
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,760
I think on top of that, we will 
see what I kind of think about 

445
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,480
as economies start to shape up. 
And this is going to be base, 

446
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,080
right? 
Base isn't just pure technology 

447
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:20,400
like Ethereum, it's a technology
plus culture, plus economic 

448
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,280
activity, plus all of this 
infrastructure that lets kind of

449
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,400
global economy start to crop up.
So one example of this is one of

450
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,320
the big priorities that we have 
for base right now is onboarding

451
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,320
local currency stable coins all 
around the world. 

452
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,280
So right now we have about 15 
local currency stable coins, the

453
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,760
Kenyan shilling, the Mexican 
peso, the Canadian dollar, 

454
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,200
obviously the US dollar, the 
euro, the pound, the Singapore 

455
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,760
dollar, you know, the list goes 
on and on and on. 

456
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,880
And that is economic 
infrastructure that can enable 

457
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,400
people to come on chain, to 
start to build, to start to 

458
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,400
create. 
And that's not going to be 

459
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,920
something that every application
is able to build entirely 

460
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,480
themselves, but it is going to 
be really, really important 

461
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,280
infrastructure to enable an 
economy to start to flourish. 

462
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,680
And so that's kind of the tier 
that base is working on. 

463
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,320
It's like our mission is to 
build a global on chain economy 

464
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,320
that increases innovation, 
creativity and freedom. 

465
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,040
I think there will be a lot of 
other economies and I think 

466
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,360
they'll kind of live side by 
side. 

467
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:16,680
They'll have like trade that 
happens between them and and 

468
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,760
they'll all be working together 
on top of these kind of 

469
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,480
foundational L1 technology 
platforms to grow this. 

470
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,200
Economy, obviously Coinbase 
itself uses base a lot. 

471
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,080
Probably exchanges use base a 
lot. 

472
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:30,800
So those are the unsurprising 
major use cases. 

473
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,840
You know, forecasters use base. 
What are the things that you 

474
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,200
consider, you know, big apps and
what are the things you consider

475
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,200
like surprising apps, surprising
use cases? 

476
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,520
Yeah, I, I think obviously you 
talked about Coinbase, Coinbase 

477
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,880
Wallet, other exchanges that are
using base for, for payments and

478
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,440
transactions. 
I think Forecaster is the second

479
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:49,440
one. 
We've invested a lot in 

480
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,760
Forecaster from a community 
perspective. 

481
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,720
And we're actually in the 
process right now of integrating

482
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,240
A Forecaster feed and mini apps 
into Coinbase Wallet. 

483
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,160
And so Coinbase Wallet is going 
to be evolving to, to have a 

484
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,200
full social feed, to have mini 
apps built into it and really to

485
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,440
be a place where people can come
on chain, get started, find 

486
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,240
things to do, buy a coin, but 
then stick around to do a lot 

487
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,200
more. 
Zora I think is another, you 

488
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,560
know, pretty fast growing social
network that's built on where if

489
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,840
you think about Forecaster kind 
of analogized to to Twitter, 

490
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,520
Zora is much more analogized to 
Instagram where it's primarily 

491
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,720
visual content. 
And Zora just went through a 

492
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,560
change right now where every 
single piece of content is 

493
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,040
actually a coin, and that's 
through a lot of iteration. 

494
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:34,400
Originally, Zora was built as a 
one of one NFT and then it kind 

495
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,280
of went to open edition NFTS. 
But after kind of experimenting 

496
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,760
with those different economic 
models, I think they kind of 

497
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,560
kind of went full circle and 
said, hey, the easiest way to 

498
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,840
let content be valued is to just
make each piece of content a 

499
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,160
coin, let the market value it, 
and then create kind of market 

500
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,000
structures that let you redirect
that value back to creators. 

501
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,680
I think the place that base is 
really winning right now is in 

502
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,600
this kind of interconnected 
social economy that's being 

503
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,520
built on top of things like 
Forecaster and Zora. 

504
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,120
Base is interesting because it's
a coin less coin, right? 

505
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:03,440
Or it's a coin less chain, 
right. 

506
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,000
Where do you think we're going 
to go with equity backed assets,

507
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,760
real world assets, other kinds 
of things on base or or in 

508
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,000
general, right. 
Like I think the legal system is

509
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,800
moving quickly in a positive 
direction. 

510
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,360
Maybe you have some thoughts on 
that and whether base supports 

511
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:20,680
that, whether base will support 
that. 

512
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:21,680
Go ahead. 
Yeah. 

513
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,840
I do think that this is one of 
the biggest problems in crypto 

514
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,720
is that because we've had a 
relative dearth of high quality 

515
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,400
assets on chain, there's been a 
fair amount of confusion around 

516
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,040
what's actually valuable and why
is it valuable. 

517
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,000
And that's led to astronomical 
valuations for things that don't

518
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,320
really make sense and aren't 
really driven by kind of market 

519
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,280
fundamentals. 
And I think one of the things 

520
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,040
I'm most excited about is 
everything coming on chain over 

521
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,160
the next few years. 
And what's going to happen when 

522
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,800
everything come on comes on 
chain is a all of those assets 

523
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,240
are going to become a lot more 
powerful. 

524
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,280
Because when you can do 24/7 
fully global trading of equities

525
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,080
on chain, that's going to be a 
better product experience for 

526
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,400
everyone everywhere in the 
world. 

527
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,280
And so that's going to be a huge
enabler. 

528
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,640
But the second thing that I'm 
really excited about is I think 

529
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,320
it's going to normalize a little
bit on chain as a market where 

530
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,480
instead of having this 
bifurcation where you have like 

531
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,800
the on chain assets that are 
valued in a totally different 

532
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,600
way and the off chain assets 
that are valued in another way, 

533
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,320
you're just going to have one 
market and it's going to run on 

534
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,120
a new technology platform. 
But we can look at all of them 

535
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,880
as one holistic market and make 
value based judgements against 

536
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,320
them. 
And one of the things I'm 

537
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,640
actually expecting will be kind 
of a forerunner of this is, and 

538
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,680
Brian talked about this and we 
talked about this, you know, 

539
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,640
the, the the team has been 
exploring what does it look like

540
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,920
to bring coin on chain? 
And one of the things I'm really

541
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,400
curious about is if coin comes 
on chain, does it get massively 

542
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,760
marked up like every other kind 
of token that lives on chain? 

543
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,800
Or does it bring fundamentals 
into the on chain space and say 

544
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,240
now every other token needs to 
be compared against coin? 

545
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:56,520
Because I think right now people
look at the tokens and the coins

546
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,800
that are on chain and then they 
look at stocks like coin off 

547
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,320
chain and they're valuating the 
tokens at a much higher rate. 

548
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,400
And I think that that actually 
has the opportunity to kind of 

549
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,360
like re equilibrate us and 
really force the question of 

550
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:11,680
like, why do you value this 
thing just because it's a token?

551
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,640
And is this kind of like 
emergence of these traditional 

552
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,920
assets on chain going to fix 
that? 

553
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,720
So I actually have, I, if I was,
if I was still CTO or if I was, 

554
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,160
you know, I would, I would put 
that as one of the top three 

555
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,040
things to get done this year to 
get coin on chain. 

556
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,240
And there's a reason for that, 
which is it's not so much about 

557
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,240
just the assets, about the legal
pathway, right? 

558
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,960
Whether it's done as a Wyoming 
Dow, whether it's done as you 

559
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,200
know, a Tennessee Dow, whether 
it's done in Dubai, whether it's

560
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:48,480
however it's done right. 
Building that legal pathway is a

561
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,880
tentative importance, not just 
for Coinbase, but actually for 

562
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,960
the whole space, because as you 
say, it puts fundamentals on 

563
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,960
chain. 
Number one, maybe it brings 

564
00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:00,960
marks down or what have you. 
And #2 is it's actually what the

565
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,360
future is for tech companies 
because I'm actually very 

566
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:10,920
bearish on NYSE, NASDAQ, and 
generally the entire 20th 

567
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,840
century I think is ending in 
terms of U.S. markets. 

568
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:18,320
We can go into all that, but I 
think it's basically like the 

569
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,400
entire quote, Western world, 
Anglo world, English speaking 

570
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,040
world and so on. 
Everything will eventually just 

571
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,240
go on chain. 
That's what the financial system

572
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,040
will be. 
That is the flipping, and it'll 

573
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,000
be obviously the right way of 
doing it. 

574
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,880
Just like, you know, everything 
that has not yet gone on the 

575
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,160
Internet will go on the 
Internet. 

576
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,520
You know, like any data 
structure that isn't yet there 

577
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,080
will get there. 
And what puts it there is often 

578
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,680
a very valuable thing. 
Let me pause there. 

579
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,880
No, 100% agreed. 
In some ways, you can look at 

580
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,360
what Coinbase has done with Base
and the path we've been paving 

581
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,040
for other businesses to come on 
chain. 

582
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,960
And you can think about COIN as 
a similar kind of analogy where 

583
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,200
it's like Base is putting our 
technology platform on chain and

584
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,520
enabling us to build the next 
generation of Coinbase products 

585
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,800
on chain and bringing COIN onto 
Base or COIN on chain. 

586
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,480
We'll put our governance 
platform on chain and will 

587
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,120
require us to solve a bunch of 
the hard problems around, you 

588
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,240
know, bringing governance on 
chain around figuring out that 

589
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,560
legal pathway that I think can 
serve as kind of a beacon for 

590
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,280
other companies around the world
to see how much leverage they 

591
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,640
can get when they use this new 
technology platform to transform

592
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,280
themselves and to provide 
greater access to operate more 

593
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,400
efficiently and to participate 
in this new global market, this 

594
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,720
new global economy that we're 
building. 

595
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,440
You know, it's funny, I don't 
know if you remember there's 

596
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,520
another diagram that I drew in 
20/18/2018 when when we were 

597
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,600
working together, which showed a
bunch of boxes and it was like 

598
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:44,000
Fiat currency to cryptocurrency 
was a much larger market than 

599
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,040
most people expected it to be, 
right? 

600
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:52,480
Like USDBTC is $100 billion. 
I mean, if you add Coinbase plus

601
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,960
finance plus all the exchanges 
and so on around the world and 

602
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,520
say multi $100 billion market, 
right? 

603
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,840
And that's just Fiat currency, 
cryptocurrency, right? 

604
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,120
So then if you say what is Fiat 
equity to crypto equity look 

605
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,760
like, that's what we're just 
talking about, right? 

606
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,040
Taking right these stocks and 
putting them on chain. 

607
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,320
What does Fiat real estate to 
crypto real estate look like? 

608
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,400
What does Fiat identity to 
crypto identity look like? 

609
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,680
What does Fiat X to crypto X 
look like? 

610
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,600
I think each of those is like a 
gigantic business. 

611
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,720
You know Fiat dollars to crypto 
dollars is stable coins. 

612
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,520
Go ahead 100%. 
Yeah. 

613
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,800
And I think this is, I mean, 
This is why I'm so excited about

614
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,240
the opportunity with Base and 
also why I think it's it's 

615
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,240
heating up a little right now in
the space in terms of building 

616
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,520
the these technology platforms. 
Because people are starting to 

617
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,240
realize, Oh my God, this isn't 
just going to be the speculative

618
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,640
use case. 
Like we're talking about the 

619
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,480
technology and the technology 
platform that willpower the next

620
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:49,880
generation of the global 
economy. 

621
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,240
And they'll be the place where 
every single asset in the world 

622
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,720
is denominated and every single 
asset in the world trades and 

623
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,480
makes markets and every single 
participant and every single 

624
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,120
person in the world can access 
it if they have an Internet 

625
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,440
connection. 
And that is a massive 

626
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,200
opportunity both to obviously 
build great businesses that 

627
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,720
aren't aren't possible today and
expand businesses that exist 

628
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,440
today, but I think also make a 
incredible positive impact on 

629
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,840
the world because we're going to
give everyone around the world 

630
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,480
the the opportunity to 
participate and to, regardless 

631
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,760
of where they're born, 
regardless of where they live, 

632
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,280
join this new economy, get 
access to every single asset, 

633
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,240
and then build whatever they 
want on top of it. 

634
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,240
And that's just going to be an 
incredible way of making the 

635
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,880
world better. 
Did you see the trailer that we?

636
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,480
Had for the network school 
fellowship where I said at the 

637
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,600
end the only connection you need
is an Internet connection. 

638
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,160
Yes, yes. 
Yes, yeah, I mean, this is like 

639
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,080
AII love saying this thing of 
like all you need is an Internet

640
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:46,240
connection because I think we've
we've we've felt that or people 

641
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,240
have said that for a while. 
But the reality is if you had an

642
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,560
Internet connection, you could 
do certain things, in particular

643
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,440
what the Internet enabled, it 
enabled you to transfer 

644
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,520
information globally. 
So if you have an Internet 

645
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,040
connection for the most part, 
although of course there's you 

646
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,120
know, China and other parts of 
the the the world that have kind

647
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,520
of secluded themselves off. 
But for the most part, you could

648
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,200
participate in open and free and
global transfer of information. 

649
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,520
But what the Internet missed was
open, free and global transfer 

650
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,440
of value. 
And with crypto, with this 

651
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,280
upgrade to the system, we're 
finally going to have that. 

652
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,280
That actually means that when 
you have an Internet connection,

653
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,080
you have access to not just an 
open information economy, you 

654
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,520
have access to an open financial
economy and all of the stuff 

655
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:28,640
that can be built on top of 
that. 

656
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,440
And I think it's going to be 
way, way better. 

657
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,960
We're doing something. 
Together, actually, let's talk 

658
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:34,680
about that. 
We're doing base batches. 

659
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,840
We're hosting folks at network 
school for upcoming event. 

660
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,720
Why don't we talk about that? 
Tell me about that, Jesse. 

661
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,080
Yeah, absolutely so. 
Our vision for bases to bring 

662
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,360
the entire world on chain, a 
billion people all around the 

663
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,120
world. 
And the way we think we do that 

664
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,240
is by giving builders and 
creators the tools to build 

665
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,920
incredible use cases, 
applications, incredible content

666
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,840
that actually bring all those 
people on chain. 

667
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,280
It's going to be the builders 
that do it. 

668
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,920
And so we've been thinking a lot
about how do we build a scalable

669
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,760
kind of pipeline to enable 
people to build their first 

670
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,200
applications, their first 
communities, their first content

671
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,640
on chain, and get distribution 
to the rest of the world. 

672
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,160
And so we, we just started this 
thing called base batches and 

673
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,680
we're running batch #1, which is
kind of everything you need to 

674
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,160
get started building on chain. 
It's build a thon and education,

675
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,960
it's mentorship. 
It's a demo day where you can 

676
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,360
get more visibility and you can 
get more distribution. 

677
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,400
And then it's kind of a pathway 
to incubation where you're 

678
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,160
actually going to get, you know,
hands on funding and support 

679
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,480
from some of the best incubators
in the world to help you take 

680
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,280
your your product at that point,
which you will have gone zero to

681
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:44,320
1 on and turn it into a business
where you can actually be 

682
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:48,080
working on it around the around 
the year full time focus. 

683
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,040
And so when we were thinking 
about starting batches, we 

684
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,640
wanted to make sure that we were
working with the best people in 

685
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,480
the world and the best 
communities in the world. 

686
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,840
And at the absolute top of our 
list was the network school. 

687
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,240
I got to actually go there in 
the fall, got to do a fireside 

688
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,320
chat with Balaji and meet a ton 
of the incredible students that 

689
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,040
were at the school. 
My big take away from that is I 

690
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,239
don't think there's anything 
else like in the world really. 

691
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,800
Thank you. 
There is there is no other place

692
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,560
in the world where you have 
incredibly high agency motivated

693
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,639
people who are making a life 
decision to oftentimes fly 

694
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:27,199
around the world to go to 
someplace that's a little bit 

695
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,199
off the beaten path and to be 
together and try and create 

696
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:32,520
something beautiful. 
And to try and think about what 

697
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,800
does the next ERA of our society
look like? 

698
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,920
And how do we start to break 
down some of these historical 

699
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,920
borders and boundaries between 
US and build something new 

700
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,040
that's connected by the 
Internet. 

701
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,320
And so getting to be there this 
fall, getting to experience 

702
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,560
that, getting to see how big a 
bet that Balaji was making on 

703
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,679
this future and how unafraid he 
was and all these other people 

704
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:59,400
that were there to try something
new and to break out of the 

705
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,200
mold. 
That to me and in conversations 

706
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,520
was then like, that's exactly 
the kind of bold that BASE 

707
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,520
aspires to. 
And that when we're thinking 

708
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,440
about building batches and we're
thinking about supporting 

709
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,680
builders that we want to deliver
to them. 

710
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,160
And so it just made sense for us
to reach out to biology to 

711
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,840
figure out how could we do a 
collaboration to put together 

712
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,080
this event to make it so that 
when folks go through batches, 

713
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,000
they'll actually have an 
opportunity to then go to the 

714
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,000
network school. 
Because there's all of that kind

715
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,120
of admiration and hopefully 
collaboration going forward 

716
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,040
between BASE and the network 
school. 

717
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,280
So that's that's my quick take 
if you are working. 

718
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,160
On base you know apply to base 
batches come to network school 

719
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,720
also apply for the network 
school fellowship because we'll 

720
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:43,600
be funding things on many 
different spaces but in in 

721
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,360
particular people building on 
base maybe this will help you 

722
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,240
the backbone of network 
societies startup societies 

723
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,320
network states I love it and. 
I want to just dig in a little 

724
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,400
bit because I think some of the 
people who are watching this on 

725
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,800
the base side, maybe this is the
first time they're hearing about

726
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,480
the Network School and what you 
guys are doing with the Network 

727
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,680
school scholarship. 
So can you just give me like a 

728
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,080
high level overview, like what 
is the network school? 

729
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:05,920
What is the network school 
scholarship? 

730
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,720
Totally OK. 
So network school takes have you

731
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:12,240
heard the term founder market 
fit? 

732
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,760
It's basically like the network 
school is the intersection of 

733
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,800
about 20 different things I've 
done over my life, all in like 1

734
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,120
kind of thing, right? 
So first and foremost, it's for 

735
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,800
the dark talent. 
So many people around the world,

736
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,040
whether in the US or outside, 
certainly outside the US, in 

737
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,920
India and you know, Mongolia, 
all Africa, all kinds of space, 

738
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,880
Latin America that now have an 
Android phone and they're 

739
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,440
online, but they don't have 
resources or what have you, 

740
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,560
right? 
So we've just rolled out our 

741
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:45,720
first thing for them, the 
Network School fellowship Anyone

742
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:50,080
anywhere 100K, where they fill 
out the application on online. 

743
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,000
And if I think they've got a 
good project, we bring them out,

744
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,080
level them up right. 
And we're going to roll out 

745
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,320
other programs like that, 
probably an internship program 

746
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,400
as well, which is folks who are 
more junior in their career. 

747
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,480
They're not yet a tech founder, 
you know, which is a rare kind 

748
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,160
of person, but they are, you 
know, so we'll do other kinds of

749
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,040
things. 
So the never still fellowship 

750
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,760
Anyone Anywhere, 100K and one of
the things about that is we're 

751
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,720
in a place with an enlightened 
immigration policy. 

752
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:15,960
So we can bring people from 
around the world, right? 

753
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,360
It's internationalism and 
capitalism. 

754
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,120
So that right then third is, you
know, I taught at Stanford for a

755
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:26,680
long time and I, I, I love that 
environment, what it was, and it

756
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,320
isn't what it was for a variety 
of reasons, funding cuts, AI 

757
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,000
fakery of grades and so on. 
So you have to re envision that.

758
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,640
So it's a school in that sense. 
Third is it's a startup society.

759
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,080
So this is something which, you 
know, is basically an embryonic 

760
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,280
form of, you know, rather than 
arguing about politics 

761
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,800
endlessly, what if we could do 
it from scratch? 

762
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:47,280
What if we could do something 
new, right? 

763
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,800
OK, and just do something all 
the way from others, you know, 

764
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,680
let them do their thing. 
We do our thing, right? 

765
00:37:53,880 --> 00:38:00,080
4th, it is really, you know, 
it's funny as tech as I am, you 

766
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,960
know, actually a good analogy is
cars, right? 

767
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,560
We're driving cars for it. 
We have, you know, literally, we

768
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,040
have electric cars. 
We have self driving cars, we 

769
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,640
even now have flying cars and 
you know, if you saw the E hang 

770
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,760
demo recently, and there's also 
American versions like Archer, 

771
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,760
but we also have walkable 
societies, right? 

772
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,560
So we're walkable places. 
So you pull cars back and you 

773
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,360
also advance them. 
So we're pushing the frontiers 

774
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,080
of tech with, you know, 
obviously AI and crypto and 

775
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:31,040
social, all this stuff, right? 
But we're actually a big part of

776
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,120
network school is offline 
offices, right? 

777
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,480
And basically, for example, we 
ran this thing recently. 

778
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:39,400
I'm not sure I'll tell you about
this. 

779
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,120
A learn a Thon actually, you 
know what we could do a learn a 

780
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:42,440
thon for base. 
You know why? 

781
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,640
Let me, OK, let me tell you what
a learn a Thon is. 

782
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,560
We took like the fast AI course,
which is like 10-11 hours, 

783
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:50,760
right? 
And problem is people don't 

784
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,040
complete these online courses. 
They they sign up for it 

785
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,240
aspirationally. 
It's like signing up to go and 

786
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:56,680
work out and not going and 
working out, right? 

787
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,040
OK, so we did is we said OK, 
people signed up for the this, 

788
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,040
this learn a thon. 
They come at 9:00 AM on Saturday

789
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,800
morning and basically they go 
through so it's like 11 hour 

790
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,360
course or an 11 hour course, 
right. 

791
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,080
So go through five hours of it 
on the first day and, like, 

792
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,840
phones down. 
They're literally watching the 

793
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,480
video. 
All 20 people, no distractions, 

794
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,480
no phones, no notifications. 
They told their significant 

795
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,800
other I'll be back Sunday 
evening. 

796
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,720
OK. 
Like literally gone. 

797
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,280
OK. 
Focus biology mode, right? 

798
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,560
You remember this, right? 
What would we call it? 

799
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,160
Yeah, I'd do at like. 1:00 AM in
a conference room with the wall 

800
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,000
just like covered in thoughts 
and be like, that's right. 

801
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,920
So I'll just locked in. 
Yeah, we're locked in. 

802
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:43,440
Right we're just we're we're 
doing this. 

803
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,000
We're not leaving until it's 
done, right. 

804
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,600
OK, so so 9:00 AM, you know, and
so they go video. 

805
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,640
Then when there's time to code, 
everybody would bring out their 

806
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,840
laptops, they would work on them
and there's like ATA who's 

807
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,840
walking around just making sure 
no one's getting stuck and so 

808
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,080
on. 
We have a timer boom next right?

809
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,440
And in this fashion it was like.
It's like a personal trainer, 

810
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,560
but for your brain. 
I call it a personal brainer, 

811
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,760
right? 
So the personal brainer is that 

812
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,280
fun, right? 
So the personal brainer ran this

813
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:19,400
learn a thon and we had we had, 
we had water, we had snacks and 

814
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,560
so on and so forth. 
But the goal was just total 

815
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,720
focus. 
So in two days, you know, we we 

816
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:26,200
took also before and after 
videos. 

817
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,800
When should you use a random? 
Forest, What is a confusion 

818
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,520
matrix, Donna? 
What about collaborative 

819
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:37,160
filtering, Donna, when should 
you use a random forest tabular 

820
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,000
data? 
And if you have a lot of like 

821
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,000
noisy features, what is the 
confusion matrix like a table of

822
00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,600
actual answers against like the 
predicted answers and then 

823
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,720
comparing, you know, like how 
often it gets it right and then 

824
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,400
when and how much it gets it 
wrong. 

825
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,360
What is collaborative filtering 
recommendation algorithm by 

826
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,440
clustering people or items or 
things by similarity. 

827
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,640
So actually we. 
Should do that with bass. 

828
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,080
I love that it's. 
Like the instant, It's the 

829
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,480
instant pill. 
It's like you get on chain 

830
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,960
pilled in a weekend. 
Yes, exactly. 

831
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,720
That's right. 
And it's, it's what it is. 

832
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:11,360
It's the right combination in my
view of offline and online, 

833
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,960
right, Because what's what's 
scarce is like focus. 

834
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,440
OK, so other piece of network 
tool, it's Internet 1st and it's

835
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,080
Asia. 
Asia as a peer, not a guest, 

836
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,040
right? 
So Asia in the sense of China, 

837
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,200
India is obviously a big part of
tech, right? 

838
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:27,920
And it's a big part of Silicon 
Valley. 

839
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:29,440
And it's right. 
But for a variety of reasons, 

840
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,400
people are like Wilding out in 
the US about that, which is all 

841
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,960
unfairly unfortunate. 
And we'll open up other nodes 

842
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,160
and other places. 
I want to do one maybe in Dubai 

843
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,760
or, you know, maybe one in, in, 
in the Americas, depending on 

844
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,640
what time zone. 
But we'll start start with this 

845
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,040
one. 
And then finally, I think this 

846
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:47,760
is the thing that makes and 
there's a lot of different 

847
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,400
versions of it, I could say, but
this is how the cloud takes 

848
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,560
land, right? 
We're doing all this crazy stuff

849
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,960
in the cloud. 
Amazing insane amounts of money 

850
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,640
moves in our on our coins. 
It's like actually crazy and 

851
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,120
huge numbers of people. 
You know what a million people 

852
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,160
is like online? 
It's just have you ever seen the

853
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:04,920
stadium? 
Like have you seen that the the 

854
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,640
lime thing on crowd sizes? 
Have I shown you that, right? 

855
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,200
It's like, here's what 50 
people, 100 people, 204 hundred,

856
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,200
right? 
So like whenever I go to tweet 

857
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,200
or render, you go to tweet. 
It's like, you know, the Star 

858
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,760
Spangled Banner, they go up to 
the thing and they're like, oh, 

859
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,080
you know, they looked at the 
whole stadium before they go 

860
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,520
ahead. 
No. 

861
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,080
Right. 
I just, it's timely. 

862
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,480
I've been having that experience
a lot the last week where I'm 

863
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,240
just like, oh man, I it's easy 
sometimes to forget that when 

864
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:34,840
you go on Twitter now, like with
your audience or my audience, it

865
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,280
really is like 5. 
Stadiums. 

866
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,200
Stadium. 
Yeah, the stadium or multiple 

867
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,320
stadiums, right? 
But The funny thing is that's so

868
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,040
large. 
And then when you materialize 

869
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,720
even a small fraction of that in
person, it's like a packed hall,

870
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,040
right? 
So I think the numbers in the 

871
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,240
cloud are so mind crushingly 
massive that when you start 

872
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:57,840
materializing them into the 
physical world, right, you start

873
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,360
to realize how big it is. 
What we've built online is, 

874
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:01,720
right? 
You start to actually perceive 

875
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:05,160
that, you know, and I think that
is sort of the missing piece. 

876
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,360
You know, obviously tech guys 
have been wanting to build in 

877
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,360
the physical world. 
And so so now we're actually 

878
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:10,880
doing that, right? 
So there's a lot of different 

879
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,880
things in network school, you 
know, scratches. 

880
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:16,280
I love that. 
What you know we've talked a lot

881
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,160
about crypto. 
How do you think like crypto 

882
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,720
fits into this vision of network
States and the network school? 

883
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:25,600
Like why do those two two things
go hand in hand? 

884
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:26,760
Very good question. 
So I. 

885
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:32,640
Think there's the most unpopular
word in the most unpopular but 

886
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,480
most important word in the 
world, I would argue is re 

887
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,800
centralization. 
OK, Why? 

888
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,680
Basically centralization, 
decentralization, 

889
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,240
recentralization. 
In many ways for crypto, 

890
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,800
especially with Bitcoin, is it's
like there's a burning building,

891
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,520
you hit the fire alarm, you get 
your Bitcoin and you get out, 

892
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,240
right? 
And you get out. 

893
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,640
But if everybody scrambles in 
every direction, that's crypto 

894
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,120
anarchy. 
And I actually don't believe in 

895
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:00,920
crypto anarchy. 
Crypto anarchy is better than 

896
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,800
pure anarchy because at least 
there's digital order, but 

897
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,280
there's physical disorder, 
right? 

898
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,520
What I believe in is crypto 
civilization, right? 

899
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,720
Ultimately, there's a 
rebundling, you know, you have 

900
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,760
bundling, unbundling, 
rebundling. 

901
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,560
There's a centralization, 
decentralization, 

902
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,840
recentralization on the other 
side where we come back together

903
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,760
again in a new form. 
It's like you take ACD, you 

904
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,200
unbundle it into MP3 as you 
rebundle to playlist, right? 

905
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,760
You take a newspaper, you 
unbundle it into articles, and 

906
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,760
you rebundle into Twitter feeds,
for example, right? 

907
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:37,440
So Western states are getting 
unbundled into digital tribes 

908
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,760
organized by coins and stuff, 
social networks, other things 

909
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,800
online. 
I think they're going to get 

910
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,200
rebundled into startup societies
and network seats. 

911
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,480
And I think that's actually like
what people aren't. 

912
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,320
My view is people aren't really 
yet taking the Internet 

913
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,440
seriously. 
You know, in a sense, by the 

914
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,720
way, most people aren't. 
This is a both a play on words. 

915
00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:59,160
But second, it's also true most 
people aren't actually country 

916
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,440
first, they're Internet first. 
Should I explain what I mean by 

917
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,800
that? 
Like, like for example, when you

918
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,200
wake up in the morning, what's 
the first thing you do? 

919
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:07,680
Internet first, right? 
You're checking your phone or 

920
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,280
something like that. 
Or people, even if they're 

921
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,560
working out, they're checking 
their, you know, watch their 

922
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:12,880
Fitbit. 
Where are you finding your 

923
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,080
friends? 
Internet first? 

924
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,280
Because you're whatsapping them 
or you're messaging them. 

925
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:18,840
They're on social networks or an
e-mail. 

926
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,160
How about your business? 
Internet first. 

927
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,000
How about your transactions? 
Internet first. 

928
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,200
How about your communications? 
Internet first, right? 

929
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:31,320
Like basically an enormous swath
of your existence is actually 

930
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,960
spent on the Internet, right? 
To extend it truly wasn't in 

931
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,760
1991. 
It's a completely different 

932
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,680
life, but what hasn't yet gone 
there are some of the 

933
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,080
institutions. 
Universities aren't Internet 

934
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,320
first, right? 
Politicians aren't, they're on 

935
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,040
social media, but the decision 
making is an Internet first, 

936
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,240
right? 
Laws aren't Internet 1st and 

937
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:53,120
that's what crypto represents, 
right? 

938
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,160
Crypto represents property. 
So that that's answers your 

939
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,360
question, right? 
How do you build an Internet for

940
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,680
society? 
It is going to start with, you 

941
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,840
know, block chains give you 
monetary policy, they give you 

942
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,840
property rights, they give you 
contracts, right? 

943
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:12,000
And my view is like common law 
that worked for the British and 

944
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,760
the Constitution, it only scaled
up to the Americans. 

945
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,080
But Bitcoin and blockchain, 
that's for everyone on the 

946
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,840
Internet. 
I love that. 

947
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,520
Yeah, I think there's a lot of 
overlap when we're talking about

948
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,560
building a global on chain 
economy. 

949
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,560
It's almost the same thing where
we're talking about, OK, we can 

950
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,360
use this new technology platform
to create an economy that of 

951
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,080
course has property rights and 
has contracts that let people 

952
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,840
organize in new ways. 
And I, I totally agree. 

953
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,600
I feel like we are at the next 
turning point where we're going 

954
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,320
to start to see how do people 
use this technology, not just to

955
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,720
do payments and play games and 
post on social media, but to 

956
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:53,200
fundamentally reorganize the way
that society works and that 

957
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,200
humans connect and that we we 
work together. 

958
00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:57,400
That's right. 
And I think like. 

959
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,440
In, you know, not to sound in 
the, let's call it time of 

960
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,680
volatility. 
That, I think, is to ensue one 

961
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,720
of the things, you know, the 
Internet was built to resist a 

962
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:11,280
nuclear attack, right? 
So even in times of extreme 

963
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:12,840
instability, the Internet is 
there. 

964
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,600
It's funny, you know, remember 
people used to talk about the 

965
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,080
digital divide and they feared 
that people would lack the 

966
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,240
Internet. 
Or actually it's the opposite. 

967
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,400
Often the Internet is the only 
thing they have, right? 

968
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,880
Right. 
So, so essentially, can you, you

969
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,600
know, in a server, have you seen
a server rack? 

970
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,720
You can reboot a server from the
Internet, right? 

971
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:33,880
So the reboot will be from the 
Internet. 

972
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,400
Yeah, and what? 
Network school is about is is 

973
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:39,920
that it's like, I'll give one 
more analogy. 

974
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,600
Have you seen, have you ever 
read Foundation by Isaac Asimov?

975
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:43,280
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

976
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,240
So like Terminus is the school 
on the edge of the universe, 

977
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,280
right? 
Which is set up so that when the

978
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:52,960
Galactic Empire collapses, it 
can be rebooted in a shorter 

979
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,040
period of time than it was, you 
know, before. 

980
00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:56,400
Right. 
I love that. 

981
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:56,920
So. 
OK. 

982
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,440
Here here's here's maybe a last 
question for you. 

983
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,600
You know, we're entering this 
world of obviously massive 

984
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,760
change, the network States and 
and on chain economies, all this

985
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,120
starting to happen. 
What's your advice for like 

986
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,240
young builders, people who are 
coming up right now? 

987
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,720
Like how should they be thinking
about this world? 

988
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,640
How should they be thinking 
about making their mark, whether

989
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,720
that's on base or as part of the
network school or in whatever 

990
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:23,520
they want? 
They in whatever way they want 

991
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:24,640
to. 
Great question first. 

992
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,040
Oh. 
But there's tons of stuff. 

993
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:27,760
First is apply to network 
school. 

994
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,920
We're going to actually have an 
internship program. 

995
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,680
So even if you have, you don't 
know what you're doing in life. 

996
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,320
If you're smart and you want to 
work hard, we'll host you on 

997
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,120
site, train you up, hire you 
out. 

998
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,040
I'll, I'll talk about that soon.
So that's my first thing. 

999
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:43,160
Just go and apply. 
OK. 

1000
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:49,720
But then more specifically, I'd 
say A you. 

1001
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,400
So what should you learn? 
You should learn statistics and 

1002
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,960
computer science because from 
those two primitives, you can 

1003
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:58,640
rebuild almost everything else, 
right? 

1004
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,640
That's equivalent of like 
learning physics and math. 

1005
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,280
Obviously you should still learn
math and physics, you know, 

1006
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,240
those are very good. 
But if you those come at the 

1007
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:09,520
right angle of attack from stats
and computer science, you can 

1008
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,640
rebuild all of AI, all of 
machine learning and and so on 

1009
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,200
and so forth. 
From the computer science part, 

1010
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,400
you can get to cryptography and 
from computer science, you can 

1011
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,640
do simulations of mechanical 
engineering, electrical 

1012
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,120
engineering, and from both 
stats, computer science and AI, 

1013
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,280
you can get to actually the 
humanities, right, like AI art 

1014
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:26,880
and this and that. 
And of course, from crypto, you 

1015
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,840
can have the crypto angle on art
with NFTS, right. 

1016
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,120
So, so from a foundational 
learning standpoint, from a 

1017
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,520
jurisdiction standpoint, I would
reconsider being based in the 

1018
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,680
US. 
I'm I, I think it's like just 

1019
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,240
less friendly as an environment.
I think lots of other countries,

1020
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:43,040
lots of other places. 
There's dozens of countries with

1021
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,520
digital nomad visas. 
If you come to network school, 

1022
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,120
we can upgrade to your, your 
crypto, your Fiat identity, like

1023
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:50,800
help you get better residency is
better. 

1024
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,360
You know, that's actually an 
important part of things. 

1025
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,240
You know, just like one of the 
reasons people buy 

1026
00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:56,160
cryptocurrency is to upgrade 
their Fiat currency. 

1027
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,840
You know, they buy Bitcoin at 
$100 per coin and they sell it 

1028
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,800
at 100,000. 
They shouldn't sell, but if they

1029
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,560
did, if they've made such a poor
decision to ever sell their 

1030
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,760
Bitcoin, they right, so they use
cryptocurrency to upgrade their 

1031
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,440
Fiat currency. 
And one of the things I think 

1032
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,760
about a lot is their crypto 
identity could upgrade their 

1033
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,440
Fiat identity, the crypto 
identity of their NS ID. 

1034
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,280
Then we can get them a better 
residency permit that we can get

1035
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,400
them a better passport or 
something like that, right. 

1036
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:26,240
Few more things I would say they
should think about things 

1037
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,680
Internet first, not country 1st.
And by the there's a totally 

1038
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,840
different, I think if you're in 
China, there's a totally 

1039
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,880
different set of things one 
would do. 

1040
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,440
But if you're non China, then 
that's what you do. 

1041
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:37,920
And if you're in China, you can 
be both. 

1042
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,560
There's a whole China stack or 
the Internet stack. 

1043
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,960
If you're outside China, really 
the Internet stack, I would say 

1044
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:49,320
to be very, very concerned about
doing anything in hardware if 

1045
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,840
you don't fully understand the 
Chinese hardware ecosystem. 

1046
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,320
This is something people don't 
yet fully understand. 

1047
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,760
But like basically Chinese 
hardware has gotten so good and 

1048
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,960
they're so much better than 
everybody else that if you are 

1049
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,200
even Elon is amazing and our 
greatest entrepreneur of all 

1050
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:08,800
time has BYD really giving him a
run for his money abroad. 

1051
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:10,840
It's outselling him in many 
jurisdictions, right? 

1052
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,680
So Chinese hardware has gotten 
so good that basically competing

1053
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,640
directly against Chinese 
hardware will be very difficult,

1054
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,040
right? 
So at least be aware of that. 

1055
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,240
So if you're a young builder, 
but in software, you can be 

1056
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:25,320
competitive in creating content,
you can be competitive, but 

1057
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,600
it'll be it'll be something 
where I can't give a specific, 

1058
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,000
you know, thing for any interest
person. 

1059
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,000
Those are the general things. 
The last thing I'll say is not 

1060
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,080
everybody needs to be a founder.
This is actually going to be one

1061
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:37,280
of the messages in a coming 
post. 

1062
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:38,280
You ready for this one? 
Ready. 

1063
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,120
Did you know that it's actually 
by some measures, harder to 

1064
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,520
become a Unicorn founder than to
become a pro athlete? 

1065
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,640
OK, there's only 1500 tech 
unicorns globally and there's 

1066
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,280
like several 1000 pro athletes, 
right? 

1067
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,480
If you add up NBANFL, European 
soccer, cricket, whatever, 

1068
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,200
there's like thousands of pro 
athletes. 

1069
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,680
There's like about 1000 to 2000 
Unicorn founders, right? 

1070
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,040
So like to be a Unicorn founders
like being a pro athlete. 

1071
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:06,200
Not everybody needs to be a 
founder. 

1072
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:08,000
You can 1000. 
In fact, they shouldn't be. 

1073
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,960
You know how hard it is. 
I know how hard it is. 

1074
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,640
Most people actually will do 
better as part of a larger 

1075
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:16,040
vehicle, right? 
And they don't have to figure 

1076
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,240
out everything for themselves. 
There's some degree, you know, 

1077
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,200
so we will have a program for 
the 1000 X, the 10,000 X number 

1078
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,480
of people who would be great 
tech employees, tech interns and

1079
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,360
so and so forth. 
And then they do really well 

1080
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:28,440
there. 
And then maybe they can become a

1081
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,800
founder or something later. 
Or they can realize if they if 

1082
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,320
they tell me how hard it is to 
be a founder, then I might 

1083
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,120
actually listen to them about 
why they want to be a founder, 

1084
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,280
Right. 
But only, only right. 

1085
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:38,560
So that's other thing I'd say 
for builders. 

1086
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,960
Builders includes founders and 
employees and, and, and execs 

1087
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:42,160
and so on. 
OK, let me pause there. 

1088
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,280
And open source developers. 
I was going to say that. 

1089
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,640
You know, not everyone needs to 
be founder, but I think everyone

1090
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,920
can be a builder. 
And I think this is actually one

1091
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,400
of the shared, this is one of 
the shared philosophies that the

1092
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:56,360
networks school and base really 
has is that regardless of what 

1093
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,480
industry you're in, you know, 
regardless of what your skill 

1094
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,760
set is, you can bring this 
builder identity and mentality, 

1095
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,400
which is about showing up. 
It's about working hard. 

1096
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:09,000
It's about like not giving up. 
It's about being resourceful and

1097
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,320
using all the tools that you 
have at your disposal in order 

1098
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:12,920
to get things done. 
It's about working together with

1099
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,280
other people. 
And I think that mentality, it's

1100
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,560
one of the great superpowers 
that people can have. 

1101
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:21,440
And I think it's one of the 
things that has again, brought 

1102
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,320
base to the network school 
because it feels like there's so

1103
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,520
much shared alignment around 
this idea of everyone everywhere

1104
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,000
in the world. 
If you have an Internet 

1105
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,840
connection, you can be a builder
and you can make positive change

1106
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,480
on the Internet and thereby make
positive change on the world. 

1107
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:34,720
Awesome. 
OK. 

1108
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:39,280
With that, Jesse, let's wrap. 
And so I'll we're base for 

1109
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,760
builders in every school. 
Check out base APIs and and 

1110
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:44,680
apply for Nervous Hill 
Fellowship. 

1111
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:46,560
All right, thanks. 
And join base batches. 

1112
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:48,200
Number one, join base batches 
there. 

1113
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:49,480
OK, Thanks, everybody. 
Thanks guys.