Mr Deans represents a clear and present danger to the national
security of the United States. You have.
No idea. What men of power can do.
Welcome back to Clear and Present Dudes Season 2 Episode
2. Thank you for joining us.
Today we're going to talk about the 1986 crime thriller movie
Manhunter, directed by Michael Mann.
Written screenplay by Michael Mann, based on the novel by
Thomas Harris, Red Dragon. I am Michael Barn.
I'm joined by Rory O'Toole. Hello.
And Sonia Bjorkson, who has come back to us.
Yes, he's back. I apologise for being absent
without leave. I I I request a gun and one
bullet. 5 minutes alone that a muffled gunshot is heard all the
way from Germany. And once again, he hit the
floor. We don't talk about that.
Negligent discharge has never happened.
Surely got low, low, low, right? Gentlemen, we are.
This is the second and final of Michael Mannry 2026.
Guys, we selected these movies by doing a vote in our in our
WhatsApp group and just a peep behind the curtain there.
What made you choose Manhunt Dead Royo 2?
I know you're very passionate about this film.
What didn't make me choose my The visuals alone are incredibly
striking. This is one of those films you
could like, just stick on while listening to just the duppest,
weedenest, greenest kind of music and have a cinematic
experience. The performance of of Francis
Dollarhyde is iconic. He he, he, he is truly one of
the greatest movie killers. I think in in in this film.
There's just something about the character Dolla Hyde and how
he's shown this film is amazing. The way in this film skates so
close to being an American jello film and sometimes does indeed.
And that kind of like in in its own way.
That's not like a straight up Jello film, much like it's also
not a straight up detective thrower at neatly.
Dodge has passed a lot of the tropes he'd expect to sing in
it. It's got so much on Michael
Mann's pared down yet also full when it needs to be.
Rich 1 needs to be storytelling and has his driving sense of
immediacy and it's just fucking weird.
That's my kind of film. Thank you Rory.
It is weird. That is probably the the one
word I would use to describe this movie and I'm trying to
imagine what it must have been like to be cinema Go in 1986.
Who the the the book was a sensation.
So the book Red Dragon is the first Thomas Harris novel that
features Hannibal Lecter. Obviously he would get much more
success and fame and infamy and all that kind of good stuff from
91's The Silence of the Lambs, where the role of Lecter would
be like immortalised by Anthony Hopkins.
It was going to win like 5 Oscars and the Hopkins got an
Oscar himself for being in like 14 minutes of the film, you
know, crazy. So yeah, like in terms of like
iconic performances and that. But this movie, 1986 Red Dragon
didn't get to be called Red Dragon.
They changed the name of the movie A-Team to Orientis.
The producer changed the name of the the movie because he thought
it was a bad woman, because another movie from the air prior
called The Air of the Dragon did really badly.
And then, spoiler alert, this also did really badly in the box
office. So weird.
It didn't didn't work. Didn't try that.
Yeah. But yeah, like you say, man,
this movie is so strange. And when I was watching it, I
watched it again yesterday in preparation for this.
And I thought, like, man, this movie is cooked out.
I think a big bit of context for this is that this movie came out
and was presumably shot and probably written by man around
the same sort of time period as Miami Vice was just taken off.
So what you get is like a grittier kind of like more
fluorescent, like less cool. There's no like MTV Sheen about
it. There's no like, like the music
in it isn't even apart from like one song at the end, which was
in my movie Vice, like the rest of the whole movie is just like
this grimier, more horrible, gross, degenerate version of
like what Mommy Vice was doing. Sonia, what was your like
initial impressions of? I think weird is probably the
word to go with really. So visually very very calm.
Sometimes, though in a in a rather anxiety inducing whey, it
was not quite as grim as I had expected it to be going off off
the description I'd read beforehand.
But in other places it was way weirder than I had anticipated
as well. Felt felt a bit weird and didn't
really have a sense of of time while watching it as well.
So I just just was casually watching the film and then I
paused for a minute and noticed that it's already been like it
had already been going for over an hour and didn't feel like
that. I was like, wow, when did that
happen? So yeah, you could you, it felt
like something you could could lose yourself in.
And, and what really weirded me out was that sort of shift in
between when it suddenly takes the the killer's perspective and
then it suddenly turns into not into a thriller, but like into a
sort of bit of an action film from his perspective.
I was a bit weird. I was sort of really, really big
change of pace, I felt like. That's a really interesting
point actually. Yeah, I think that's AI.
Hadn't really thought about it too much myself until you said
it. That's just got into the Tenant
and the nitty gritty of the movie.
Just to tell all our listeners, all our new listeners, Hopefully
you'll get more new listeners every episode that this is a
spoiler cast. So we are going to, so we are
going to ruin this film for you. If you've not seen it, there's
no time to watch it. We'll be here in two hours time.
We'll go nowhere. Right.
So the movie opens with Will Graham, who is a former FBI
criminal profiler and who's retired, and he spends his time
now at a lovely house on the beach somewhere in Florida with
his young family, raising turtles and.
And wearing really, really slutty shorts.
Yeah, yeah. And it's all nice and tan and
he's living the high life and he's got this awesome, like 5:00
shadow going on. And then he sees the last thing
he wanted to see in the world probably, which is Dennis Farina
in a fall suit on the beach bearing down on him.
It's. Going to be a good fucking
weekend, dude. Dennis Farina turns up and he's
like, hey, I'm going to tell you some cop stories from when I was
a literal detective for fucking 18 years, and then I'm going to
be an actor. What a guy.
What a dude. A match, a night out with Dennis
Farina, man. Incredible scenes.
Yeah. I love Dennis Farina.
Perfectly cast. So that Dennis Farina is Jack
Crawford, his FBI superior who worked with him on the previous
cases. And he's here to do the whole
we've got you for one last job, we need to get you one more job
at that classic scene and it starts to straight into it.
So it's great. So Will Grimm is the sitting on
a log on, looking out at the Sea, and Jack Crawford explains
to him that there's been two families that have been brutally
murdered in different cities around America.
But the MO is the same. And this guy is on a lunar
cycle. So they've got about a month
until the guy's expected to hit again.
Will Graham is needed. He's the best FBI profiler in
the game. But it's implied very much that
the last case that Will Graham was on kind of broke him.
And it is true. So the last case he had was
capturing a man called Hannibal Lecter.
I don't know why, but in the credits of this movie, they
spell it with AK in TUR like Lecter, which is weird.
But anyway. But this case could because he
gets so deeply into the minds of of his quarry, he comes a little
bit crazy himself. And at the end of the Lecter
case, he was not only physically assaulted at the time in the
hospital, he also had some PTSD going off the back of that.
And he's been in therapy and stuff since and trying to get
his life back on track. And then here comes Dennis Runa
going to drag you back in and get yourself into the mind of
yet another crazy guy because you're the only guy who can do
it. He kind of plays like a guilt
card, hands on hands on these photographs of the families.
Yeah, and grammes like go do it because I've got a young family
and this is a young family. He's like, he has some shock
images. It's like, welcome, welcome,
welcome to browsing R slash combat footage in the year 2026.
Basically, it's like, check me out.
I'm your offline version of liveleak.com.
Indeed. Well, Graham goes to speak to
his wife Kim, Greased or griced as the actress.
I haven't seen her in much stuff.
She's the only things I've seen her in apart from this is the
movie Brazil she killed the year before, where she plays in that
opposite Jonathan Pryce. And also a 1 episode, 1 episode
of Miami Vice. Then we'll talk about that one
episode of Miami Vice later. But yeah, so he goes to speak to
her. She's obviously like, quite
reasonably quite wary about this whole thing.
Like, all right, isn't this exactly what fucked you up last
time kind of thing. And then off, off, off he goes
to the most recent crime scene, which is in Atlanta.
And then you kind of start to see his initial process.
So the next scene, I guess, is where he's he's in the car with
like one of the other cops and they put up to the house and
he's like, do you want me to go in with you?
And he's like, no. And enhancement the envelope of
like pictures and notes and stuff from when the scene was
initially found. And he just sets himself up in
there and he's like walking around the place.
And you see him have this really long sequence which like putting
it all together. Yeah, he's kind of nervating it
to himself kind of thing. Yeah.
So obviously I'll I'll watch this with with, with my wife
Emma, who got me into the Hannibal TV show.
And I don't know if you guys have seen Hannibal, but there's
this the kind of show Will Graham's ability to kind of like
recreate scenes in his head by he walks into a room and then
like the screen kind of like cross fades over how it happened
at the time. And like, he sees like all, all,
all like the dead bodies and stuff and he sees a collector
and it's incredibly and it's incredibly lurid and graphic and
it's really fucking cool. And I'm pretty sure I heard I
quietly say this is my design as he was like looking at stuff
because that's his big kind of tagline from the show when he
starts like tripping balls and saying stuff.
It's really good how it's handled in both that show and
this film's handled in very different ways, I think.
And again, it's just this very kind of slow paced, methodical
work by him that seems a cross between insight and insanity.
Like, you know what I mean? Like the film doesn't do a lot
of storytelling and how we kind of has this massive insight into
the mains, but it already feels like it's a burden on them.
And I think that's really cool. Yeah, it doesn't.
I think because of the narrative economy of it, it doesn't really
seem considering lots of different versions of what's
going on. Yeah, absolutely.
Like, it isn't it isn't brainstorm possible reasons for
like why the the tooth theory is what everyone's calling the
murderer has staged the scenes the way he has.
He's just immediately like hones in on what it turns out to be
completely the right answer. He's like, he just like
immediately gets it. Yeah.
Which is crazy. But also shows that that Will
Graham. Yeah, maybe, maybe it's showing
that Will Graham's got this critical insight, or maybe it's
showing that Will Graham is also a little bit like Touched as
well. It's almost like you've got to
be a bit of a be a bit of a killer to catch the killer kind
of thing. You look around the scene, the
key, the key bit of information that you've gained from the
scene is that by spotting some traces of talcum powder near the
bodies and noticing there's no other talcum powder in the
house, he realises the talcum powder has come from inside the
gloves the girl he's wearing, which means he's taking his
gloves off while he's at the scene.
And he believes that so he can pull people's eyes open, so they
can the dead bodies can watch what he's doing.
Yeah. Which means just give them the
breakthrough of, like, dust the eyes for fingerprints.
Yeah, and then they get a fingerprint from the eye.
And this, this, this sorry, sorry to talk over there.
This moment in the film is one of its deviations, like the kind
of like piercing and tropes of detective thriller or serial
killer film. Because when you think about
this is the kind of this is a kind of break in the case that
would come much later in in other sort of films.
This is this is like third act, right?
This is, this is like a third act break in the case kind of
thing when it's like, Oh my God, the call is coming from inside
the house kind of thing, you know?
Yeah, they have a third act break in the case as well.
Yeah. Oh yeah, Yeah, they do.
But it's. But you're right.
Yeah, with the person. It's level of it because it
shows that the resources that they're bringing to bear on this
on on this case are like at the maximum from the very beginning.
Because I guess Wimbledon stepped into it 22 entire family
murders into it already. So he's been brought in kind of
late in the game as kind of like their their ringer and he is
delivering straight away, I guess.
But yeah, you're right. If this has been like a more
standard kind of police procedural movie, if this had
been the first like scene, they wouldn't have found anything
necessarily of anything of any great import, or they would have
found a good redheading that leaves them down like a rabbit
hole. Yeah, and then some random other
guy. And then I said no, no, it's not
me. I've just got a totally
different interest in breaking into people's houses, you know?
Yeah, yeah, something that's like that and then this, this
insight, this kind of like immediate psychological insight
into the into the guy and it being right and then finding a
result on getting that evidence. Yeah, you're right.
That would have happened a bit later in the movie.
Yeah, Yeah. But yeah, you're absolutely
right. So yeah, this happens pretty
early on. You see, like the forensic teams
kick into action. I think what it does do is it
sets out its stall pretty early. If like, this is a movie that's
going to take the the forensic evidence stuff really seriously,
you're going to see it with a type of rigour that you don't
normally see in a Hollywood movie.
You know, you're going to see them talking about things like
handwriting analysis and like, like fingerprinting techniques
and blood splatter, like. Yeah.
The. Analysis and that kind of stuff.
The the microscopy, the use to see what was written in
ballpoint under the redacted part of the toilet paper that
was redacted and felt tippers like that's great.
It's so granular. I've I've I've seen this one
referred to in more than one review as being or having
aspects of competency porn. And I agree with that.
I agree with that. It's probably not a coincidence
that the ultimate criminal competency porn porn TV show CSI
we then have like Will Pearson, he plays a game in this as as
it's kind of like figurehead. Very fairpoint one that I.
Didn't even. Would you say that counts as an
OPS room? Yes, I would.
It's like there's bazillion screens in there where we're not
sure whether they have any actual purpose apart from making
it look more technical and interesting, which is usually
what what OPS rooms tend to do in thrillers as well.
Is this our first? This is our first OPS room of
2026. It is our first option in 2026.
Mark it down, Opstrom counter running at 1:00.
So I favourite Opstrom, My favourite Opstrom is still the
unstoppable Opstrom. Yeah, that's a good one.
Cool, right? So we now meet a young a very
young Stephen Lang as hacked reporter from the left wing
media. God, God, am liberals coming?
Out here, I'm joking because of region events.
No, but we see Stephen Lang, a really young Stephen Lang
avatars Stephen Lang as as Freddie Lowndes, the the tabloid
reporter who's trying to trying to goad Will Graham into a story
and a quote. And he gets power bombed onto
onto the body of a car, smashing its windscreen.
Such a, such a, such a good scene.
And it's really funny because obviously Freddie Lowndes
appears. Emma was like Oh my God it's
Freddie Lowndes beat He gets power bombed into a car beat
Emma. Not as sexy as in the TV show
though. Oh.
Gosh, who played in the TV show? I didn't.
I didn't measure the role in there.
I've never watched Hannibal and I probably should do.
So cool, dude. Like I said, I mean, I keep
banging the drum, but like, Season 3 are so many jello
elements, it's just fucking unreal.
So it's woman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Gender swap role. It's Laura Jean Shorosteki.
That's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I did have a quick look on this and, and there was that Doctor
Bloom was gender bent as well. Yeah, yeah.
In in in the TV show. Yeah, so good, man, So good.
Cool. Yeah.
So Lang, right. Is is great.
Lang is incredibly good at playing, like, really hateable
characters. I mean, as you see, do you
remember him in? He's almost unrecognisable as
Ike Clanson in Tombstone. Yeah.
Man I've never wanted a character to get like shot in
the head more then I can't sit in Tombstone.
What a fucking weasel he is for that whole movie.
Come back. Absolute dirtbag.
Absolute peace. And he's it's no different here.
I feel a bit bad, but eventually.
But yeah, God, he's so irritating in this.
And that's that's that's a compliment to to steal the line
for how we also smell this, I find really irritated.
The moment is he has and this is probably just fashion at the
time because the mid 80s, but he has these fucking ties, these
like really thin ties that I've got like I've got like a flat
cut at the bottom of them. And he looks like I was like
fucking one of the bullies from like Back to the Future Part 2.
Hey, McFly, I'm going to run a hit piece on you.
McFly. I'm going to blog about this so
hard. McFly.
He really fucking does. I fucking hate a stupid little
number plate on his car. You didn't catch that?
It's got you. So his number plate's got you.
It's like, yeah. Golfa fucking golfa TCH uniform.
Oh, got me. Because you're a because you're,
because you're a crusading reporter.
You melt. Brilliant.
So immediately after this he goes to Graham goes to see
humble Lecter time out nerd moment here.
So the location of the psychiatric hospital strict
prison that lecture is in is the Atlanta Museum of high Art
external and internal stuff filmed there and to anyone's who
are fans of the medical drama the Resident, which is set in
Atlanta that is the same location that is used for
Chastain Hospital external and internal as well.
There's a yeah, so the the that big sort of long spiral circle
staircase that he's running down or rampway that he's running
down when he when he flees out of elective sound and kind of
has a wobbler and runs through the building and gets outside.
Like all of that is that big atrium.
There is is inside the the the art gallery as well or museum.
And then I think I think one of the main characters from the
Resident gets like fatally stabbed in that same area.
Wild. Anyway, spoilers for the
Resident. Spoil us for everything.
It's unreal. We're we're out here.
Australia, the interior of that hospital by the way, was that
scene was running out of there. That felt weird as fuck.
Yeah. Really did right?
That was so so weird. Like because it generally make
made you feel like he was trying to escape from a never ending
labyrinth. Which he is of the mind of the
man at. Some point I was wondering
whether they were really going to make this poor man run down
the entire thing and make us watch it as well.
It's like, OK, we we've got the point now.
There's a lot of stares. Yeah, OK, right.
We'll do it in backwards order because we we'll hit it.
So, so he's run out of the, of the office and then you, you
have that bit where he's like on that run to walkway, still the
same location and he's leaning with it.
And we get that one shot of just the grass, which is like been
chromatically separated. So you see like the red,
blue-green on the light of the Jew being split across to show
that his vision has gone blurry because he is so worked up.
And then it cuts and then it cuts back to him and it and he's
calmed down and it comes back to the grass and we just see the
Jew on the grass. How weird is that?
Oh not. It's crazy.
Yeah, very strange. The film's just like strange use
of like surrealistic, kind of like colour schemes and like
stuff like that and like colour grading.
It's a one of the ticks in there.
Is it a giallo or isn't it kind of box?
It definitely uses colour to it's like it's a one to one for
different like mental states of of different characters
throughout it. I did see it did do a little bit
of resistance. Dante Espinati is the DP on this
who worked with man a bunch of times.
He did heat previously. He's done a whole bunch of
different stuff including weirdly Ant Man of the Wasp.
But we'll skip, skip, skip that. Weird, weird earth.
I actually did some, did some research on myself the other
night as well. I was like looking so obviously
Italian, Italian film that I started like, well, sorry,
Italian DT. He started mainly working in
Italy and he doesn't appear to have done like Jello films.
He's done a few kind of weird films that don't sound like
they're like they're jello genre, yet he seems to have a
deft hand for this kind of thing.
If you like later on once run categories I can talk about some
interesting things I found about some of his work in Italian
cinema, which I think is pretty funny and pretty interesting.
I look forward to that. So Spilotti has said himself an
interview and stuff that that he used different colours to have
different emotional states. So whenever the screen is
completely like drenched in the blue, it's meant to indicate
like a safe space. So you have that in like
Graham's house next to the sea at the beginning and you have it
when they're doing some of the forensic work in the, in the
police stations and there's like nice blue tones there.
You, you kind of get like a mixture of purples and greens
for when things are getting off kilter, which is like shown to
its maximum when we get to the climax.
And you look at like Dollar Hyde's house, which is like
beards and like purple and green and every other colour seems to
be like saturated out, really strange.
It looks so weird. And when you talk about the film
being weird, it's that colour scheme that that makes it really
weird for me. And and also the the changes in
like frame rate and stuff that happened.
There's a few of there's a few of those that are really strange
that put you off kilter. That's subtle, subtle little bit
of slow motion just before Graham jumps through the window.
Yeah, there's a bunch of them. There's there's that the star
hide emerging through his weird giant poster.
Anyway, we're having an hour, our first meeting between Graham
and Hannibal Lecter. Brian Cox is playing him here.
This is the first actor to play it.
He hasn't got a lot of time in the movie.
And Michael Mann himself said he wanted people to feel like they
didn't get enough Hannibal Lecter when they watch this
movie, which I get because you want to, you want to leave
people wanting more. But it works because I've so
many questions about Hannibal Lecter after watching this film.
Like what was he doing there? Yeah, he was, he was told like
business character on like a kind of British private
schoolboy, wasn't he? Like, he was, he was taught like
base the performance on like a private schoolboy and it's like
my son's going to private school, I'll base Hannibal
fucking Lecter on him. Dad of the year, dad of the
year, man, honestly, what a guy. But yeah, I mean, it's
interesting. The second mean what's what's
what's what's Brit doing working in America?
I guess making better money than the NHS would pay him.
Yeah, yeah. With better access to weapons to
killers. Killers.
Yeah, what I like about this film is it doesn't go into any
detail whatsoever about the nature of Lectors crimes, just
how he there's a little bit about how he was caught and
Graham is a kind of like rubbing his belly a little bit here.
He's kind of feeling his ego a little bit.
Yeah. So there's the whole back and
forth of like Will Graham, you, you get the feeling that he's
he's holding his own for a little bit and then he gets kind
of chiselled away and he definitely loses that that
confrontation. It's his first step back into
this grimy in the world since he kind of tried to get himself
away from it. And it's just too much.
He's just, he's just he stood too close to the bonfire and
he's getting himself a bit burned.
And as soon as he shows that bit of weakness, like he lectors on
him straight away, like you, you came back here to get the scent.
You came back here to get a smell of it to, to to get your
head back in the game. So has it worked?
Did you get my smell smell yourself?
Oh man, brilliant. Brian Cox has some opinions as
well. I've I liked researchers films,
but I may have done a bit more research on this film than
previous ones because I locked in a little bit on this bad boy.
Brian Cox has some opinions on Anthony Hopkins performances as
Lecter. By the way, that that's probably
a good time, but mentioned so I found I found a quote.
So on IMDb, someone wrote that. In a 2025 interview, Brian Cox
reflected on his performance Hannibal quote.
I think I'm the best Hannibal Lecter there ever was beat
because I play it internally. I don't do any funny Chianti
shit. I don't do any of that.
End Quote, Cox quipped, referring to the famous Silence
of Lam scene, in which Hopkins Lecter recalls eating a victim's
liver with some fava beans and ice Chianti before making it
before making a dramatic slurping noise, Cox continued.
Quote I play at the guys. I think he really is.
God bless Hopkins. He did it very well.
He got a lot of money out of that.
He also got an Oscar for Best actor.
What can he argue about that? But at the same time, to me,
Hannibal Lecter is a much more internal guy than he is
externally. He's somebody who works from the
interior out, not from the exterior in, and I think that's
the difference. That's interesting.
I think it's a good point. I think if you look at have you
seen, have you seen the movie Hannibal 2003?
And it's just a bit like it's just a bit over the top and it's
just a bit like becomes a bit a little bit silly.
I kind of, whereas I think I do understand like where Brian Cox
is coming from. And I haven't seen the TV show
Hannibal, but how does Matt Nicholson do it?
Him and Will agree I'm a super fucking gay for each other and
it's wild. The one at the one at the one
have sex with. They don't have sex with each
other so much it's embarrassing for both them he's after.
I think it's really good Hannibal, he's he seems to have
a bit more of like the kind like he's, he's not as flamboyant as
Hopkins when he's being more like kind of kind of
intellectual and like in incisive, I guess, and
analytical. But he does have the kind of
flamboyant thing when he's holding these like ridiculous
cannibal dinner parties and stuff like that.
It's it's a really interesting performance.
Does seem to kind of take a little bit.
No, no, I'm I'm I'm I'm not going to do some bads Middleson
by saying he's taken from other actors performances because he
might come in my house and kill us.
But he seems to kind of show both the both sides of like the
kind of Lecter spectrum, I guess Electrum, if you will, because
he's got like that increased sense of menace that that that
Brian Cox has. Plus like a bit more like the
intellectual flamboyance and stuff that Anthony Hopkins
provides. Plus also you seem like
physically stab people and kill people quite a bit.
So he's like, so he's like a physical Lecter as well.
Like he's a Lecter who can breaks off you.
It's All in all a good show. Cool.
No, I need to. I need to check.
That's a big black cultural blind spot for me.
So I haven't watched any of that.
Gillian Anderson's in it. It's like, yeah, it's.
Like I need to watch it. It's like a Gordon performance
by Gillian Anderson, honestly. Yeah, I need to get into that
big time. 100%. Yeah, it's a good point.
It's interesting. I like Brian Cox a lot as an
actor. Yeah, he's in many great, great
things, not up to and including Sharp, but but you do get the
sense from this Lecter, from what we see of him, which is
only a small amount, that you can see him operating in the
real world. He's very charming.
He tricks people. He's very easy to manipulate
people on the phone. And the way he gets to goes
around Will Grimm's head is is masterful.
There's some kind of playful and weird about him as well, like
the way he, like, lies on his little who hospital, not
hospital prison bed with his little feet up in his feet in
those big thick socks. Just like there's something kind
of funny about that. Whereas, yeah, there's something
a bit like Panto's probably putting it a bit harshly.
But like, the thing about Anthony Hopkins is, is later.
And we'll do this on set Lounge at some point, I'm sure.
And we can talk about it in more detail, but I feel like I can't
see his Hannibal actor, like going to the shops and getting
his groceries in. I can't see him taking a patient
as a psychiatrist. I can't see him like, you know,
going to the DMV and getting his licence.
Like it just doesn't seem like of this Earth, you know?
An interesting thing to consider is who went in on the fact that
Brian Cox said he he kind of based his performance on his son
who was like a private schoolboy.
Brian Cox is like that is like a really precautious, how to cover
for his own good and absolutely insane student, whereas Anthony
Hopkins's Lecter is like a far too far too clever for his own
good and in C private school drama teacher.
Yeah, I don't know why, but I thought of Mr G from Summer
Heights either. No, I'm afraid that's I'm afraid
that's a cultural blind spot for me.
But where you been bitch? Where you bloody been?
Watching watching Bosch last night is where I've been there.
I watched Bosch last night. I had to.
I had to get Bosch filled off you dude.
Obviously a throwback to the last episode when Mike had Bosch
mentioned Counter. So I've watched like 6 episodes
of the first season of Bosch. Last night went a lot in.
Yes. All right.
OK. Maybe we'll do a Bosch bonus
suit at some point. A Bosch sword, if you will.
That's great news mate. I'm so happy for you.
You're going to really enjoy that.
How good is J Edgar? Don't, don't answer me now.
He's great though. Fantastic, right?
OK, so where are we at now? Lecter agrees to look at the
case file, and Lecter immediately obtains Graham's
home address through deceit. Meanwhile, because they've got
hits on the fingerprinting stuff, a Graham goes to the
crime scene in Birmingham, AL, which is when we get the flight
across, which is an interesting scene we should talk about
because they didn't have a set for a plane to film this.
So they filmed on a real flight. But it's proper gorilla gonzo
filmmaking because they, they didn't tell anyone they were
going to do it. Obviously.
What they didn't just said is they bought like 100 seats on
the plane of like the cast and crew and just took over the cab
doing it too much as the chagrin of the pilot, The the, the, the
stewards and Sue Des's flight attendants.
They they did the the the filming which they brought all
their kit on on board like in their hand luggage playing
mental. You can tell this is like pre
911. I was gonna say you could you?
You could not do that today. This truly is one of those
films. I'm going to say legally you
could not make aspects of this film today.
Yeah, and to mollify the aircrew and other nearby passengers who
obviously like were sitting next to it as it was happening.
Good stuff. They just they just give a bunch
of like Manhunter like crew jackets away to people, which
which is fantastic. Just like so they obviously
plants. We'll just bring a lot of swag
on it. We'll just private everyone with
swag. I just imagined like the film
comes out like what, probably 6-7 months months later or some
oh. 6. And.
When I was young, 69 used to be the funny number.
I thought, I thought I would have pulled something out to
make Sonia angry. But, yeah, like, however many
months later, after the film's wrapped and gone through pause,
you know, half this air crew in the cinema is going.
I know what fucking happens now watch this.
And like, they're sitting there in, like, the manhunt.
That crew jacket's like, yeah, this thing's never leaving my
side. And then they walk out the
cinema and like half the people are on the going what the fuck
was that? That was that sucked.
Yeah, a full, a full, a full third of the people who watch
the film walk off with Ina Gada de Vida stuck in the head for
the rest of the lives. God, yeah, that's absolutely
ridiculous. So Graham goes to this house.
One of the things he was talking about with Lexer was that all
the houses they've been looking at have had really large back
gardens. And because there's a lunar
cycle element to it, he thinks that probably he wants to stand
outside and look at the moon after as he's doing his crimes
and it's possibly in the nude. So he wants a bit privacy, which
is why he thinks there's there's large gardens.
So Wilgram goes to this house and sees that, yeah, has got a
massive garden. He walks back from the house
like down a hill and like looks at the sight lines.
And when he runs out with like the sight line from like the,
the house and stuff, and he looks around and he finds a tree
and he climbs up a tree and he sits in a tree looking at the
house and kind of pieces together like what the killer
must have done. And it's another bit of like
Will Graham, like narrating to himself.
And you get this like really bit.
I, I think William Peterson's really good in this film.
But the only bits where I don't like it is when he has these
moments of like these UK moments when he's on his own and he has
to say what he's thinking out loud and he's like, that's it,
You son of a bitch. This is you.
You stayed here all day. You watch them all day.
That's why they're large yards. You son of a bitch.
It was just like, who are you yelling at, man?
This this scene is somewhat is somewhat ruined for me.
Not ruined, but tarnished, I guess, by a South Park episode
in which Cotton has been some kind of a detective and he's
like, this is the is a tree where the where the killer
stayed up all night, probably cutting himself for the large
knife. That was a terrible Cartman
impression. I'm so sorry.
I mean, that sounded more like a certain fucking current
president and leader of the free world impression, which is even
even even worse. It was middle of those.
But yeah, of of obviously the other thing that's ruined by
South Park is when is the whole do you see?
Do you see? Yeah.
You see, because I've just caught and go Oh my God, I'm so
fucking bored. It's like cartoon's rotted my
brain. Crawford rings him to tell him
that Lecter's warden at the prison has found a note in his
personal effects which they think is from the killer,
written on toilet paper. So then they go and read the
note and kind of hatch a plan. So.
But what it is, is they realise that the killer, who they don't
know, they don't know yet, the tooth theory is a professional
admiration for Lecter. And then they hatch a plan,
having read the notes, to write their own fake response to him
and publish it in. They figure out it's the
National Tatler, which is the newspaper that Lowndes writes
for, Freddie Lowndes. So they plan to write to try and
get him to go to a certain place at a time so they can, like,
basically do a sting attack on him, Right?
Yeah, right. This is a weird thing.
Lecter is writing these notes to the tooth fairy, but he's
writing them in a code. The FBI haven't cracked the code
yet, but they've got a decision to make about whether they put
in their own fake one without the coded elements in, or they
let Lecture write his own one, but then no progress was made
because Lectures was writing to his guys as he wants to.
They decide to run their one anyway, in the hope that maybe
the code hasn't been recognised by it's all, but not this.
That's crazy. It's like, it's like, because it
shows like the kind of like intelligence and misdirectional
powers of, of lecta how the code, the the code is
essentially so like you meant to think that like the safer for it
is like the Bible, right, Because it's like Bible verses.
But and the this realisation, it's not clear how this
realisation because the Bible verses don't match.
Like there's only this certain amount of verses in in in in
this book and it's and it's exceeding the number.
Then they're like also, this is actually just like reference to
some random criminal codes and like laws and stuff of like the
area, like the like county criminal codes, which somehow
translates into letters. And it's I like how the film
doesn't dive too deep into that because again, it's Michael
Mann's kind of yeah, would would we don't need to know, but don't
need to have a scene when like someone like spends spends ages
looking at a Bible and then looking at a big book of
criminal statutes and going son of a bitch.
You know, it's it's again, it's the thing that much like in
Collateral, Michael Mann's able to cut these things out of his
films the run necessary. And he still has this vibrant,
exciting, rapidly development storyline without having the
scene when a bunch of cryptographers lock in and sit
around with the Bibles and the Criminal Code books and.
Probably some statues. It's misery.
State yeah, yeah, like, like, yeah, like and they've got like
the, the Bibles in front of them.
They've got like the state statutes, they've got some some
third red herring book like, I don't know, the players guide to
Animal Crossing or something in front.
Like I can't be this one. This has no relevance to the
plot, but you're going to waste 5 minutes on it because this
isn't a Michael Mann film, you know?
Yeah, So, yeah, because it serves no additional purpose, I
think, I think we get the gist of it pretty much as soon as it
starts. So So what they do is they get
free lands, who we've already seen is a fucking scumbag.
But they sit down with him and Will Grimm offers him the
opportunity to be like, right, we're going to catch this killer
by you're going to do a profile on me, which considering he's
already written some tabloid hit pieces on him already, he's
like, brilliant, great, I'll do that.
And then they're going to start talking about the case in this
profile. And he starts just like saying
like, right, The tooth fairy's impotent.
He can't achieve an erection around a woman.
Maybe maybe he was had, maybe he had fantasises about his mother,
like all this sort of stuff. So just it's really, it's mean
like, OK, like. So it's rage bait, isn't that?
I mean like it's. Like, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, like this this guy wants to have sex with his mom and
he's also gay. It's it is incredibly middle
school. Really.
It's like, it's like, hey, man, hey, man, you know, homo says
what you know, like it's like, it's just he falls for this like
rage bait. It's.
Proper juvenile. Yeah, but like, not in the way
you expect it because obviously they think they're going to rage
bait him in making a move on Will Graham, but in fact he sees
through it and falls in what controlled way for the rage bait
and absolutely fucks Freddie Lounge up.
Yeah, yeah, Grimm. Yeah, you get, you got like the
sting operation all set up with Graham, Graham as the tart at
the bait. And they do that kind of big
fake out. They they see a guy running in a
hoodie, they tack him to the ground.
It's just a guy out for a run and all the places like there
and and meanwhile Freddy Lounge is like complete unprotected
walking to his car and just gets gets gets abducted and you get
like so you get like the do you see, do you see scene where
Freddy Lounge is sat down and made to watch like all the all
the slideshows of photos of all the families that he's brutal.
Freddy Lounge is crying and screaming to run up having a bad
time. And I love that you don't see
what he does to Freddy. All we see is him returns to the
parking lot and you've got the guy in the little booth, the
little tool booth. And you see this brilliant shot
of like the bend of the ramp that goes up and around the
corner. And you see like the light, the
fire, like rounding the corner, you see the light coming.
And he's like looking at that. And he's like, what is this?
And the guy gets out the tool and starts like backing away and
then runs away. And then you get this one really
short shot of like the wheelchair with like the burning
free lounge, like piling down the run toward right at the
camera. And it's like, what is this is
sick? It's a proper jump scar and it's
and honestly 11 out of 10, no notes, absolute perfection.
That scene when there's when there's just this kind of like
gradual building up of like, again, this film plays with
light and stuff so much and that's this building up of like
the kind of light from from the burning body that's inside the
wheelchair. I just think obviously looking
at it with contextual knowledge and having like seen the film
before and seeing there's like a similar philtre.
I mean, it's not going to be a spoil that say there's a similar
scene in the Hannibal TV series, but it's like imagine seeing
that in the cinema for the first time with preparation.
I don't know if that scenes in the book Red Dragon because I've
because because I've not read it yet.
I really should shout out to Stephen from Cromiton.
If if you're listening after recommending on social media
that the books even better in the film Sonia, check that out.
Thanks man, got a shout out to listeners.
I'll tell you what I really enjoyed after the sequence and
also hello to Stephen, is the absolute lack of emotion that
Wilcrim has about the death of Freddie Lyons.
Like he's going fuck, he's go fuck.
He's like he's like, did he like he's he's talking to like the is
like the EMT or the doctor or something?
He's like, did he say anything else before he did?
He he's like, you know, he's never getting consciousness.
Oh, OK, right. That's a bust.
Yeah. Well, he says anyway.
He's gonna fuck. He's gonna fuck.
She, read. Doesn't care.
It's fantastic. And then Jack Crawford's like,
we've we cracked the codes. It was like Missouri State
statues or something like that. And we found out what the code
of message was to the tooth theory.
It's your home address. Yeah.
So he's like, fuck. And then they, he books it back
to his home. And we get like the police
swarming the residents. It's all fine.
Like, you know, they get they get, they get evacuated out.
It's all good. No drama.
I feel, I do feel bad for the one guy.
There's a shit tonne of black guys in this movie, but there's
also a shit tonne of people that we've never anything else and
don't have photographs on IMDb who this is their only acting
credit kind of thing. And there's one guy who plays
the cop with a shotgun who comes to the door, who's clearly been
given the one line to say please come back, please come back
inside. But he has to say it like 3
times because like Kim Grish keeps running out the door and
he's like come back inside. No, come back inside.
No, please come back inside. It's like you're not giving this
guy anything else to say. He's not, he's not, he's not
going to, he's not going to get in on the the improv with you.
But yes. And I'm trying to go outside.
You know what? No, but go back inside.
I'm not about to badging like both about it get poorly lit
stage now and someone's like I heard nightclub in San Diego and
everyone's Catholic St No but. Yeah, Saint Christopher, these
beats are really banging. Since you thank you so much, it
goeth hard God grief. We've got a really nice scene
after this. So it cuts to them going to a
safe house and Will Grim goes out shopping with his son.
And this is like he only has like a handful of scenes in the
movie. The son is shown to have quite a
high EQ, like he's out of his sight of his mum and dad.
He goes, I'm just in the kitchen.
Like he, he knows, like people don't be worried about him.
He's obviously like, it kind of implies that this kid has had to
like, this isn't his first row day with people being worried
about him. Yeah.
Anyway, he goes, he goes, he goes grocery shopping with his
dad and his dad. I think this is probably Will
Peterson's maybe kind of best scene in the movie is him
explaining like, what happened to him after the last case and
the nature of his PTSD to his, like, really young son.
He's like talking to him at his level kind of thing.
Doesn't doesn't talk down to him.
He kind of just says, like, quite a matter of factly, like,
yeah. And after my body got better, my
mind wasn't all better. So I had to go and speak to
somebody else, and they had to. And I had to ask them for help.
And because I got really in because I had to understand,
like, why these people did these horrible things, you know?
Yeah. He kind of lays out flat for us,
like, what the movie's about, which is his struggle with going
into the minds of these killers. But that was a really nice
scene. I thought it was really well
done. I love like the mundane Saturn
of a supermarket as well. He got like all the serial
behind him and all the coffee behind his son.
Yeah, it's the breakfast style. It's not directors, lesser men,
pussies would have shot this film on a bench next to a lake
or something. Not on the scene on a bench next
to a lake. Come on, son, let's feed the
ducks and I'll talk on the PTSD. But it's like it's just this
off, killed up. We are kind of seen because it
works so well you. Don't know when these moments
are going to happen in real life.
Kids don't have like the whilst he has like the EQ to like to
take all this information in, he doesn't have like the the
tactical. Well, let's wait until we're out
of public before we talk about this.
Yeah, I'll, I'll. Ask you about it right in the
middle of the fucking Whole Foods.
Yeah. And it's more realistic that
way, I think. Yeah.
You don't know when these deep, meaningful chats are going to
happen. Yeah, it's like fucking family
story. When my mom was a kid, she went
to see some some musical. I think it was Oklahoma at the
cinema with her mom and they like a sister, obviously.
I think I think it's Oklahoma. There's there's like a line in a
song. I think it'll be kissing.
We'll be drinking. We'll be fornicating either and
either my mom or her sister whose name I want.
So yeah, somewhat documentary family, but said said to them I
may grandma quite loud. Mom, what's fornicating in the
middle of a cinema? It's like.
So yeah, kids, kids in general, from what I've seen and heard
and experience as a kid as well, don't have that kind of like
awareness of right place, right time sometimes.
So it's really a really bit of honest storytelling, filmmaking
that this conversation has to happen in a supermarket in front
of the breakfast cereals. You know it's good.
Yeah, I'll tell you what reminds me of it reminds me of that bit
and when Harry Met Sally where they have a good deep meaningful
chat when they bump into when Harry and Sally bump into
Harry's now ex-wife and his new partner while they're like in a
gift shop and they're doing the karaoke. 2 Oklahomas, Jigson
ducks and geese Spiller scurry when?
Yeah. And then you have like and then
like just yeah. Out in public they have like
that singing. Yeah.
Oklahoma in front of IRA. Yeah.
We're getting dangerously close to becoming a musical theatre
episodes. No big deal, no drama with that.
I don't mind that. Man Hunt and the Musical imagine
that Run Lockdown will work out how Manhunt and the Musical
would play out. No, we're not.
Anyway, this is the midpoint of the movie where we do the switch
from police procedural following the evidence to now we are with
the tooth fairy. So we so the Rubicon has passed
when we finally meet Francis Dolehyde as he's kind of
torturing lands, right? That's the first time we Yeah.
And the first time we see him he's got like that pantyhose
over his head, over his eyes, over the top off says creepy as
creepy AF. Yeah, again, this was like the
whole like jello thing of like a masked killer kind of thing.
Like it's it's it's they have a quite Nos, you know, like it's
not quite it's not quite following the full jello
playbook, much as it doesn't follow fully the thriller slash
serial clan detective movie playbook.
Brilliant, brilliant. Really menacing, really weird,
really offsetting little touches that make it off putting.
Things like the colour on his shirt is like folded up.
Yeah, weirdly. Like he's he's taking all this
care to like stage this kidnap and the torture and the
slideshow, but the guy is so unhinged.
He doesn't know how to put his shirt on properly.
The movie, the rest of the movie kind of drip feeds details to
us. But our first impressions of us,
we've got this guy who's like got the the surgery scar on his
palate because he's obviously had a himself a pep palate as a
child that's been been surgically fixed.
Extremely tall big guy. They tell us later in the movie
he's 34, but he's like, but he's got this kind of wiry, struggly
balding head of hair, which just looks like he's taking a lot of
care with it. He's got this weird apartment
that he lives in. It's just like the whole thing
is just like, who is this guy? But then the movie answers it
for us by putting us in his shoes for like the next the the
next sort of 30-40 minutes. And it kind of speed runs us
through like his, his kind of kind of fall falling in love
with, with, with, with, with that Lady whose name I've just
forgotten. I'm so sorry.
Reba Reba McClain played by John Allen.
Like it kind of like speedruns us through that, that like
romance and how he he like takes that to see that tiger that's
been like sedated and stuff like that.
That's. A wild first date.
That's a. Wild, wild first date.
And it's, and it's, and it's obviously, it's like it's, it's
unsurprising because it's Michael Mann, a real tiger, you
know, with a real vet as well. That's like an actual real vet
standing by it. And it's like Michael Mann, you
didn't have to go for this realism, and yet you did.
That's cool, though, because that would be cool.
It shows that like, this guy has got like a one.
He's interesting. Yeah.
It's not your standard, like, go for a drink for coffee, have a
safe day. No, he's like I, I know a guy
who will drink a tiger for us. Yeah.
Like what The Who is his vet? I I just happened to have a
friend who's not just a vet. He's not just like a regular
domestic animals vet, right? He's a guy who's a vet for a zoo
who just happens to have A tag that he needs to sedate like
right now or very, very soon for a procedure.
That's like, The thing is, it's like so many serial classes
portrayed as like he's like sad losers and he is a sad loser on
his own right. But he also has the potential to
be a cool dude. He's a fucking really cool
house. You know, he's he's obviously
able to build up like working relationships with people within
seeing the cool jobs. Like I I I do work on tigers for
a zoo. That's fucking awesome.
I think the apex what vets want to do right.
And yet, I guess, well, I mean, like the film in first is
schizophrenic with a with with with with with much of the plot,
I guess. And and also, I guess it's the
fact that once again, this is what 0 pussy does to a
motherfucker, you know? Yeah.
Yeah, but there's something, there's something it's
frustrating because there's something like quite empathetic
about about him doing that because like, he's obviously
this woman is blind. Yeah.
She experiences the will through touch.
You're never going to see a tiger, but you could run your
hands through the the fur of a tiger.
Exactly. And see with your see with your
hands. That's incredible.
Like what? What what a gift that is like in
in theory. And this is a guy who fucking
annihilates women. He annihilates him, he
eradicates him. I mean, families are kind of
like the families have to die, but the women, it's, it's his
main thing. This is guy who's a destroyer of
women. Yet for a first date, he takes a
woman who'll never be able to touch the tiger without dying to
see one of one of God's most amazing murder machines with our
hands. It is a complex performance and
a complex characterization. I've I've got to read the book,
man. Yeah, I'd like to know a lot
more about reader as well, Like what what her, what's going
through her mind because she's she's obviously drawn to this as
well. So you get the impression that
maybe her background isn't straightforward either.
This is so distracting as well. When you're watching the film,
This, this, this relationship that's that's building up.
It's so distracting that, I mean, you notice it, but I
don't. I didn't, I didn't pay a lot of
thought to. It was like how they're going to
catch him is that he works in the film processing labs that
processed all the home footage for all the murders.
So that's how he's it's a bit like one hour photo.
This is how he's picking his victims.
He's he's developing their film and seeing their lives.
And it's something that Grim obviously realises later on.
It's like the big kind of Eureka movement.
But yeah, mad so he has that. He has that one nice date with
Reba, drops her off. Have a nice normal time Reba
then. So as I understand it in the
book what what she's doing is breaking off like an off again
on again thing with another guy. Yeah.
And the guy asks her that would be a shot from Dollarhide.
I feel like one final kiss and she kisses him by one last time
on the doorstep kind of thing. And then he leaves.
In the movie, that's not not been there.
I think it would have been confusing, yeah, to have that
much back story for such a short interaction.
But in the movie, it's it's just like a colleague who's just
saying bye. And he notices something on her
cheek. So he brushes her hand into the
cheek, and it looks really intimate.
And this is like what sends him over the edge.
Yeah, and dolla height. Like he, like, he like, he goes
kind of full schizo at this point and he sees it.
He rips upholstery in his car. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like, he sees it as like a passionate clinch kind of thing
when it's not, you know? Yeah, I love why I love when
they're shooting this the way that they they changed the way
it shot for the perception from Dolla Hyde.
So we see it from his perspective.
She is like backlit by like the porch lights.
She has like a bloom around her that both in the centre of the
frame. It's like in slow motion.
The soundtrack is jacked right up.
It looks like this kind of really intimate moment that's
happening. And then it cuts away because
cuts back to them and it's like really a matter of fact,
slightly wider shot slightly off centre.
The lighting's calmed down, the bloom effect is gone.
And it's just like, yeah, it must have just been like a bit
of like pollen or something. And then and then by like, no,
no emotion whatsoever. And he just walks the garden
path, but too late. PowerPoint your man Dollar Hyde
springs up from behind the hedge, shocks the guy.
The guy recognises them, but he just Yanks him into this hedge.
Bang, bang, 2IN the heads with a solid pistol and then ditches
him in the garden and just walks into the house.
Really like bristle fast, like like the ritual stick murder
stuff is, is one thing. But when it's just a this shows
you like when it's just a an obstacle.
He doesn't care. He's just he's just like
obliterates it and moves on without thinking.
Yeah. But it's just, it's just at this
point he just a racism because it seems to me with the
storytelling, he's matter of fact with the way he kills men.
Like him killing men is the business thing.
Him, him killing the guys is how he is, is what he does, while
he's kind of making the women that he kills into something
different. The children as well, yeah.
Yeah, Graham, Graham says in that initial, that initial crime
scene when he's dictating to himself, he says like the
children, the men would have died within a minute.
Yeah. And then 5 minutes happens and
then the women are killed. What does he do in the
intervening time? Yeah, so that kind of obstacles
be removed. It's dispassionate the way the
way it kills them. There's no kind of like
screaming fuck you and like get your hands off my woman and just
like slice and slice and slice and kind of thing.
There's no kind of cut his eyes out, replace them with with
broken mirrors or whatever. He's just erased because it's
again, because it's because it's psychosexual with him as as
violence as psychosexual and know that taking the jello box
and men aren't part of his sexual alignment.
Yeah, So now we get going towards the the end of it now, I
guess we get so Donald Hard goes into Reba's home and kidnaps it,
I guess because he takes it back to his place, right.
And we're getting towards like the 11th hour now.
So I think while this is happening, it cuts back to
Crawford and Graham, Gemma Colford realise all these
inferences that he's making are through the same home footage
that he is watching right now. So he's like, like where this
what? What labs do these come from?
And then it's like a central processing lab.
What's the outfall source lab in the local area that that
initially went to before it got brought into the FBI fold?
Underneath that label is where it is.
So they figure out that, oh, these have all come from the
same lab in Saint Louis. Yeah.
So we're going to get, we're going to gas up the Learjet and
zip over to to Saint Louis. I've got to talk about as use of
I can kind of aircraft in this film as well.
When was CI mentioned this in the last podcast episode?
When was C the scene when they get evidence delivered by
helicopter? I love how it's literally kind
of touch and go thing helicopter lands someone handsome, papers
out and then flies off again. There's no kind of here comes
the cavalry fucking charge of the Rohiram kind of thing.
When a bit of a bit of a bit of a exaggerated like reference
obviously, but like there's no kind like yeah, here, here, here
comes, you know, to save the day kind of thing.
A big deal. Helicopter lands, bunch of guys
come out shaking hands. We've got your information, man.
Thanks, dog kind of thing. One's your dog, but it's like
it's just show us it shows the tempo that the operating at the
helicopter lands. It is literally in the air
moments, moments later. Then when we get the Learjet
scene, you know the the they're not putting them on a domestic
flight account after what happened because he fell asleep
when some kids saw evidence. Yeah, again that.
Complaints Amazed. Complaints amazed he's he's on
he's on a new fly list now. I mean, again, that scene alone
does kind of just as a kind of a side slide away a bit from the
whole detective movie tropes. That's not something you'd say
in in a lot of films. I kind of seen one like maybe
maybe maybe not then anyway. But yeah, when when he's on like
the Leo chat and stuff and the speed at which that plane taxis
towards the hangar, it again at stake.
It shows the intensity of these things.
It's not sure we've got you a Leah jet because we're cool
because we don't have to like delay a commercial fight from
Delta or whatever. It doesn't it isn't it isn't a
flex have got a Leah jet. They need some.
It's going to get them there really quick and you just know
that the direction for the plane's crew were get this thing
moving on the ground to the stop point as quick as possible
because it's not meant to look like a cool badass moment.
It's meant to say this. This is really serious.
It isn't like a Hooray thing. It's a oh shit kind of thing.
You know that means business. It's.
Interesting, actually. So what this movie does do,
which I think is interesting, is it dispenses with a lot of the
federal manhunt kind of tropes that you that you get in these
movies. So or it modifies them in some
way. So national manhunt in a movie,
what do you normally get? You normally get building press
reaction to what's going on, building up like a further.
I'm thinking of things like the TV series Mindhunter,
Mindhunter, not Manhunter and other things like US marshals,
whatever the fugitive, that kind of thing.
What we do have instead is 1 tabloid reporter who becomes a
plot element and is in one of the victims.
So actually, is it really about the the national reaction to it
or is it just the stuff you have to put in place for the one
victim to get done? You don't have go on, Sorry,
sorry, I'm going to say other stuff you don't have right.
So all these guys are working for the FBI, right?
So national, the federal, what do you normally get with a, with
a, with a federal investigation in a movie?
You normally get federal to local law enforcement, friction
over jurisdiction and egos putting heads.
Look at any of that in this. Everyone just gets along.
And there's an even, there's even a briefing scene with the
local cops and the FBI. They're together and it just
happens. And then they go off and do
their jobs and no one kicks off. Yeah.
Another thing is, so this is more of a visual thing, but
normally if you see any of the three letter agencies in a
movie, they are cutting about and there's windbreakers or, or
those badged vests, play vests and stuff all the time.
You don't see any of that. There's nobody wearing an FBI
windbreaker in this movie that I can remember.
Oh, it's seldom is. Yeah, this, this film is very
low on the red on the red jacket count definitely is.
And I think the the film at this point through the manhood kind
of sequence doesn't throw your red herrings.
Oh my God, Someone's seen a guy who matches the description in
Colorado or whatever and a SEC turns out it's not him kind of
thing. That's like competency porn.
Again. It shows people as being really
good at the jobs and not in the kind of, it doesn't feel like, I
know this is a word that's like being kind of trotted out a lot,
but it doesn't feel like copaganda.
It doesn't feel like look at how incredibly amazing and noble our
law enforcement are. It just shows how competent they
are in the very not not morally sent out kind of way.
It's not showing them as like these crusaders who are just
going to get the job done for God country in America and apple
pie. Just shows them as consummate
professionals who don't get in silly.
Kind of like local cops versus 3 letter agency shit fights.
Because it's a worn out trope and it's something again Michael
Mann dodges in this film. Yeah, in fact, you see them have
the opposite in this sequence. So they're in the Learjet,
they're making a call to the grounds, to the Saint Louis
police. And Frankie Faison is like the
on duty sheriff of deputy over there in charge of, of a tiny
little small OPS room. And they, and they say like,
right, we what we need is I've got a list of names I'm going to
give you right now of all the employees of this lab that, that
we use this, this, this film processing lab.
So they've also got the information.
I'm going to go for all the names.
I'm looking for a guy from his profile that he's, he's
generated. I'm looking for a guy who's 6
foot to 6 foot 5 something something that between 180 and
220 lbs, Caucasian blonde hair like this.
These are all the things I think they are based on my profile.
And then they go for all the employees.
Alphabetically and then because it's the movie, they get to 123
and the third one happens to be the guy.
But you see this OPS room kind of thing in, in the station, I
guess in Saint Louis, just doing it just like right, here's the
and then here's the guy's ID we're putting in the name.
Here's the thing. Doesn't match.
Next doesn't match, next does match.
I'm faxing you it now. Boom.
And then you see that what you don't get in this movie is the
troop that would follow immediately after that, which is
call out an APB. And then like we've loaded the
airports, we've loaded the ports, we've loaded the and
we've got a Roblox set up. But like none of that happens.
It's just like, we've got this guy.
What's his address? Let's go to his fucking house.
Yeah, basically it's like, like, like there's no hard target
search of every doghouse, hen house, cut house, and outhouse
and A50 mile radius, you know? Because there's no manhunt yet
because because we've got the jump in and finally, and it's
hard to get, but there is the pressure that it's happening
tonight, which means they they can quite reasonably expect them
to be in or or or or out the victims, but they don't know the
victim is. So they're going to try and pick
him up before he goes out. Yeah.
So we get that and it's all coming together and then we cut
back to his apartment. And then I mentioned it earlier
on, but this is where we get some of the really weird use of
light and colour to show things have gone off the rails.
So we have in direct conversation with the earlier
scene where he has reader Joan Allen in his apartment on their
kind of their date when they have their first kiss and sesh.
I guess in that scene his flat is normally colour graded.
It's lit in a normal cosy ish ish light.
He's doing something incredibly rude by the way, which is he's
playing a home movie on a projector that he can see that
she can't see. And then he doesn't adequately
explain what it is. And then then the sound of the
of the video that the tape playing is like overbearing on
the soundtrack. Yeah.
It strikes me as incredibly off kilter nevertheless, and This is
why I want to know more about Rita, because that's happening.
And nevertheless she starts making out with him and it's
like he could be playing like hardcore pornography on that.
You've got no idea what he's watching.
Yeah, he just says, oh, it's something for work.
I'm like, oh, so you're going to sit there and do work with your
eyes that I can't use while we're like, what the fuck?
It's so rude. So weird.
Yeah. And like, I mean, it's enough to
make a lesser short man. I mean like I'm aware of my 5
foot 7 stature and I'm fine with that because it's the golden
height, but it's enough to make that's a lesser short man who
doesn't quite appreciate himself as I do be like women will do
anything for a tall guy. If he's 6 foot 6, they'll do
fucking anything, you know, and it's like that.
It may be, but it's like if if it does fit that incredibly in
self fucking trope, they're saying people like, Oh my God,
all all you have to be is be yourself, be fit, be rich, be 6
foot 6. Girls will like you warm.
Shut up. But two, yeah, it's like, I
think she just comes across as being.
She was really captivated by him and she was willing to let a lot
of things go because really, sadly for her, she seems to be
really, really passionately in her love with her.
Yeah, you do see a moment after they first have like Make Love
and then they're in bed together afterwards and he's lying in the
bed awake and he's weeping to himself.
And you, you kind of get the, the, the moment there that to
God, if I hadn't crossed the Rubicon and murdered two
families a couple of months ago, and this is, and I, if I'd met
this woman three months ago, I could, I, I, there might have
been a future and I might have been able to suppress my ages
and I might be able to live a life for her.
But I've, I've fucked it for myself.
And now, now I know what I have to do.
I have to kill her next. And this is because this is all
part of my becoming. And this is one of the many
trials I would face before I became the the red dragon or
whatever fucking mental shit you're probably thinking, you
know, So you do see him wrestle with it a little bit.
Yeah. And then we get to the.
So now we're in the his, his house.
And now we see it and it's really, it's just really it's
lit in like secondary colours. It's like it's washed out purple
and washed out green in composition with each other is
the lighting, which is, you know, as we described earlier,
as Dante Spinotti said is like part of the colour sequence he
had in mind for when things were off kilter, when there was
emotional turmoil, when we're getting out, touching into like
some of the crazy bits of his sort of psyche.
And it just makes the the place look like something from a music
video or something. It looks really odd.
It doesn't look like a real flat anymore.
Yeah, and, and when in I got a Davina kicks in it just on the
lines, the fact that everybody feels like a music video.
Yeah, so then she gets really frightened and he's planning to
start doing his kill, I guess, but it's interrupted just in
time by the police and it just turns into an absolute mess.
So he whips out a shotgun that he's had stashed nearby and just
dispatches to the local law enforcement.
Like I can't believe so that they're, they're on the way
there. Ah, I've skipped a bit.
So we're on the way there. We cut back to Jack Crawford and
Wolverine, who were in a car racing to the scene.
There's like 2 police prowlers racing to the scene with them in
and, and, and Jack is saying to, to will like you don't need to
load like because he's loading a pistol in the front seat.
So you don't need to like, like you don't need to load that.
The SWAT team will to get him. The SWAT team will take him out.
We don't need to, we'll hang back.
You don't need to do that. But like Will's too deep into it
now. He has to get involved himself
and he's, so he's the one like loading up his pistol like I'm
going to, he's going to charge in there.
So SWAT, I meant to be on the way.
These guys arrive first start trying to do, and this is really
bad. They kind of botched this, but
they knew they're against the clock, I guess.
So they're trying to raid the house and like all good sense
would dictate that they would probably they should wait until
the squat are all lined up there ready.
But because life is in grave and imminent danger, they've got a
they've got a kick in the door, I guess.
And that's, that's how those two there's two patrolmen get like
get killed because they're not, they're not wearing adequate
body protection. They're not they're not up to
storm the entrance or anything. They just knock on the door and
just get fucking shot. I mean with with way police
equipment looked and like night and 86 wasn't it, the SWAT team
likely wouldn't have had much in the way of like protection
anyway. Certainly not someone that a 12
gauge would have wouldn't, wouldn't, wouldn't have mashed
through. Yeah, they would have had like a
regular player vested, maybe a helmet or something.
They wouldn't have been like fully Kevlar.
I mean, I mean, the best bit of, I mean, I don't even think at
that time and, and I don't think like even that time, like a lot
of SWAT teams were even using like ballistic, ballistic
helmets and stuff like that. So yeah, when you look like old
school photos of like Elliot Payday SWAT and stuff and he was
like Ruga mini fourteens. And they've just got like just
got like a kind of like black like tactical vest with like new
armour in it. And it's and it's crazy compared
to how you say just like the regular police now with like
play carriers and all this. And it's like, but I guess times
change. But yeah, it's again, this film
Dodgers passed this idea that they mentioned the SWAT team in
the film. Therefore the SWAT team is going
to go in. It's Chekhov's gun that doesn't
really get used the film when it promises the idea of the SWAT
team coming in and save the day. They don't appear.
And once more, dodging past things that films want you to
expect to happen. Yeah, it's really weird.
Yeah. But this the sets up that will
on his own is going to enter the property and and try and take
him out and he he gets in there. There's a really weird bit where
a fridge full of food gets spilt on the floor, like milk and
tomatoes and other bits of produce and they get and they
get shot with a shotgun and explodes.
Yes, very, very cinema. Absolute cinema.
Just what is that? Yeah.
Graymlin just through a window, is subdued by Dolla Hyde, who
retrieved a shotgun, shoots 2 police officers, injuries.
Crawford wounded in the firefight.
Dolla Hood returns to the kitchen where he's killed by
Graham. And then we could to them being
outside with Reba, Graham and Crawford or getting tended to by
paramedics. Weirdly, Graham is hugging Reba.
Yeah. And then Reba asks who are you?
And then he. And then he says.
And then instead of saying like what you would say in reality,
which is I'm a policeman, I've just rescued you from this guy.
I'm, I'm the FBI, you know, kind of thing.
He goes, I'm William Graham and like, well, who the fuck is
William Graham? The the.
Guy with the crackers. I'm the guy, but the crack has
bars. Brilliant.
Yeah, and obviously he said it for us.
So we understand that he's no longer in the mind of Francis
Dollar Hydra. He's no longer in the mind of
Hannibal Lecter, and he's found himself again.
I get it. He's cured himself with mental
illness. No, but like, But yeah, it just
comes across as a bit corny. It does come across as corny,
but again, this is the film once again, subvert and the tropes
and stuff because you expect the feds come to the rescue.
Show FBIFBI. It's OK, I'm an FBI agent.
Or just like Will Graham, FBI. And he pops out his badge even
though she can't see it, but he does anyway because it's like an
impulse, second instinct. And yeah, so again, it's another
thing that doesn't feel like a typical serial killer cop
thriller, you know? Think of this film we've been
made ten years later. I'd be interested in watching
The Science of the Lambs and compare the ending of those
films. Bear in mind there's a lot of
FBI in that film. There's a lot of FBI
iconography. There's training sequences.
There's an award ceremony at the end of it with the FBI.
There's a lot of FBI iconography in that film.
There's none of it in this film. It'd be interesting to see, to
compare. This will be made ten years
later. This, this crime scene would be
crawling with, it'd be like Blues and twos everywhere.
It'd be cordoned off. They'd be like a police
helicopter with a spotlight hovering over the property.
Yeah. Flashing down to it, there'd be
food like erectors, there'd be a shit, sort of like you'd see
like the tenting put up by the the CSI team.
They they'd be doing all that. Yeah, you'd have, you'd have,
you'd have an FBIHRT running up and like multiple fucking M raps
and stuff. There'd be people in the
background getting interviewed by cops and stuff who are
witnesses and that kind of thing, just to show activity in
the background. You'd get so much more, yeah,
Stuff you'd see the militarised way of like the law enforcement
descend on the property, wouldn't you?
To like, clean it? Clean it was from Element.
Actually I've gone anachronistic because 10, because if this film
was made, like I said, 10 years later you have FIHRT turning up
and like fucking black painted M113 Apcs or something like
that, wouldn't you? And then if it was made today,
the turnip and those M wraps and stuff.
There's big mine resistant ambush proof vehicles probably.
Probably a director, Kash Patel would turn up himself and give
people really cringe challenge codings with skulls on them.
Jesus Christ, I watched Slight Side here, but we're at the end
of the movie now, so I think we can do it.
I watched, I watched the new Drew Carnahan movie The RIP last
night, which Joe Carnahan for fans of the podcast directed and
wrote Smokiness and he wrote and directed this as well, The RIP.
It's the new movie with Matt Damon and Ben Affleck.
And that movie has, as a major plot point, an MRAP vehicle,
yeah, being being used for the latter half of the film.
There's a lot of armoured personal transport stuff going
on in that film. Not a good movie, by the way.
And I'm looking forward to us talking about it because you
will have some serious opinions about weapon handling.
There's like, there's the DA in it, as well as the free agency
that's involved. And yeah, just not good.
FBI's in it as well. So we'll talk about all these
tropes. So, like, that has got it all.
Everyone's in a windbreaker, you know, everyone's got play
protective on, everyone's got like the free letter of thing on
there. And there's one guy who's I
think is meant to be, oh, Jesus Christ, I think it's might be a
good guy who's got the little Duke tread of me.
Fucking snake is a patch on his Jesus Christ man.
Proceeds to tread on people. Yeah, don't tread on me proceeds
to step it's I've got a lot of goodwill for for Mike David and
Ben Affleck. I saw what you did there.
Goodwill hunting for it. Yeah, this is not one of the the
good ones, unfortunately, but interesting.
We should maybe talk about it. I may edit this out.
Just just just want to bring that movie up.
Cool. And we've got any final points
before we get into categories about this, this big Dang movie?
You must have a few or we haven't touched on.
The kind of get a little bit matter every time we've said
lunar cycle. When I hear the phrase lunar
cycle, I have this almost pathological impulse to mutter
the phrase moon bike because there's a banging thriller from
1995 called Copycat featuring Sigourney Weaver, Holly Honda,
great performances in which is going to be my plays this like
agoraphobic psychiatrist who was the victim of a serial killer
who escaped and there's a new serial killer.
Then I think it's in San Francisco.
Who's who's who's hunting people And Holly Hunter said texts were
investigating here and she gets a phone call at the station,
gets a phone call and someone goes to Holly Hunter.
Oh, it's that crazy lady there who shunned the phone again.
She says the killers on a moon bike and Holly Hunt say, OK, you
say it's on a moon bike. She was like, it's a lunar cycle
and a SEC actually goes really hard and we should.
Yeah, we should say that I'm a big Holly Hunter fan.
So yeah, definitely, definitely. It's it's just Sigourney, we've
and Holly Hunter. It's a double act that you just
can't miss. Sonia, you got any observations?
You've been fairly quiet for this one, probably because I've
been talking a lot. Yeah, that might have something
to do with it. Shade.
Oh, it's. Time coming in hot.
Yes, no, I was, I was quiet on on the on the whole firearms
thing because of things discussed earlier which did not
make it into the recording. Thank goodness.
I did read up on the the filming bits on the on the Wikipedia
article. We we had the bit with the
aeroplane earlier where they basically bribed everyone with
merge so they could just hijack a commercial fly to to film a
scene in it. But like, I have no idea how
how. Not really a great idea how
practical full effects usually are achieved.
But apparently they did a lot of random stuff for this film.
Like apparently in the end they couldn't couldn't pick him off
the floor because they left him in the fake blood for so long
and it was made with corn syrup and it dried.
They were just after basically spending half an hour getting
shot again and again it was and and being squirted with ketchup
as well. Apparently he just stuck to the
floor and couldn't couldn't get him off the floor again.
Also apparently everyone on set didn't really said they were all
kind of afraid of him and I feel like he might have.
Everyone cited being uncomfortable around him made
him avoid everyone even more. I feel like even might have made
it worse with that. I'm not sure I would let let
that count as a method acting. It probably helped in getting
the the vibe across. Tell you what I mean, to me that
does sound like a that does sound like good method acting
and B it's certainly better than like the dog shit method acting
the Jared Leto got infamous for when it was us being a bad Co
worker. Oh, I'm going to post some used.
Condoms to you in the mail. That's the that's the fucking.
That's terrorism, Jared. Terrorism.
Stop it at that sake. The court sentenced you to be
shot. The court sentenced you,
sentenced you to be freed, but you're career to be executed
because that's fearsome and Charlito's career is kind of
dunzo at this point. Not even Morbius could save.
Yeah, Morbius is one of the the death tolls.
Wasn't it Morbius and then everything is open since Tron
Aries is is flops. Nobody stop putting him in
movies. Nobody wants to see him.
He, he was, he was, he was in Tron Aries, which flopped
despite having Gillian Anderson on the big screen in it.
You know, that's so much of A box office, like just black
cloud. The man is.
I think Pedro 2049 succeeded to spite him really, rather than
because of him, you know. Yeah, yeah.
Good God. Also, apparently they're just.
Opinions on them And here go on. Apparently they're just randomly
threw around glass jaws to simulate the effect of the
gunfire in the house, which which managed to actually injure
Peterson. You see, Apparently he was left
with a Shard of glass embedded in his thigh.
That would. That be fantastic.
So we we don't have enough blank rounds, but we're just going to
stick you with a bit of glass. That's a.
For. Reasons.
This apparently went a bit bit bit method as well.
So he got so into the role of Will Graham, who himself was
getting so into the role of Francis Stella Hyde after the
movie raps Will Peter, someone who dyed his hair blonde, like
shaved his face and just wanted to make himself look different.
So we'd have to, like, he tells you, like draw a line between
him and this role, you know, holy.
Crap, yeah. It's amazing though.
Yeah, it's good. Michael, Michael Mann certainly
likes having his actors do the hard guards, don't they?
I mean, we of course talked about the the the rigours that
he put the two main guys from from collateral through
dispatching Tom Cruise to work undercover as a FedEx Courier
and having a Jamie Foxx drive in LA cab.
So he really does, but he doesn't sound like it's one of
these directors who who puts the cast through Hell, he might be.
I haven't read enough on him, but he doesn't sound like one of
these guys who are horrible to work with.
Like, I mean, I've heard Francis Ford couple.
I was like, legendarily painful to, you know, work for.
I like stunning Kubrick and stuff as well.
Yeah, David Fincher does a lot of takes.
So if you get on, if you get on with them, that's great.
If you don't get on with that, then you're probably probably
not going to enjoy it very much. He, he seemed, he seems to do
all this without having these kind of tyrannical qualities
that get some directors kind of infamous, you know?
He's got the credibility, I think.
I think The thing is with man is that you're not.
You're not doing it because of some artists.
Unknowable perception of what they think the good bit of art
is. They're doing it because he has
a very technical mind. He wants to achieve a swimming
in a technical manner. And you're going to do the work
to make sure the thing gets the the outcome.
But it's like something that you can quantify and measure.
I think. Yeah, is is what is what the
difference is. Yeah, that's competence.
That's competence. At the end of the day, it's
competence. And it's his his understanding
that he's a real competent technician.
He's he's an interesting mix of water and absolute technician.
Yeah, that's, I think that's, that's really accurate.
Should we take a break here for and then we'll come back into
some categories? Welcome back, right?
Let's get into the categories for this movie song with casting
as we usually do. Normally we kind of skip past
the main guys, but I think we'll have a quick counter through
these guys because it isn't a star sort of picture, so to
speak. William Peterson is plays our
guy Will Graham. He's one of the big hits that
I'm aware of to Live and Die in LA.
He did the year before. Another really good film that I
think we'll probably end up covering this podcast at one
point in the future. He had a very small role as a
bouncer in 1981's Michael Mann's movie Thief, and then he's
Grissom in CSI. That's that seems like big, big
credit. Dennis Varina is Jack Crawford.
We love Dennis Varina. We talked to him about length,
we talked about him a lot during Striking Distance, but he's
fantastic. I didn't realise that he was a
real cop for 18 years in the Chicago PD and was a detective
before this, but that makes so much more sense.
And obviously he was in Miami Vice as well and starting Crime
Story, his acting debut also in Thief in 981.
And maybe we have to cover in January, January to come.
Fantastic. Brian Cox we talked a bit about
earlier on is touch the Hannibal Lecter famous to a lot of people
now is Logan Roy in succession, I suppose was his big recent
comeback. But he's he's a guy who's been
acting consistently for decades now and it's just in stuff all
the time. He's just a great character
actor, great character player. It would be almost offensive to
go through his list of credits. He's been in everything from
Troy to Sharp. Yeah, yeah.
Great, great actor. Some of the greatest video game
acting of all time in. Sons of daughters say it.
Sons and daughters of Hellgan, those are my people.
Sons and Daughters of Hellgan honestly might as role as a
school of Azari in the film's opening cutscenes.
It's it, it's, it's, it's a speech that I'm obsessed with,
but it's literal chills. He's he just delivers it so
well. My people, sons and daughters of
Hell Gun, for many years we have been a broken nation.
Shunned, oppressed, and. Conquered by those we sought to
escape 10 years ago. I asked for time.
And that time was granted by you.
You, the strength in my arm, the owners of my dreams.
This much? I've.
I think he's fantastic. But what I like about Brian Cox
is that if you asked him about that film now or that game, he
probably wouldn't remember it. Yeah, that.
Yeah that probably wouldn't remember it.
Ari Blake. I was the best hell gust
character in all of those cutscenes.
The other Ragnars who did it were shit.
I was the best scholar Vasari in the entire thing.
Our enemies at home have been re educated.
Fantastic. Smash cut to people getting
doomed in the. Back of their head so good.
2024, he was in The Lord of the Rings, the Warth of Raheem.
There's helm hammer hand. That's pretty cool, you know, to
helm hammer hand. My boy.
Helm, Hammer, hand. Over here in Bros up there.
Yeah, Great, fantastic actor. Fantastic.
I just looked at these. He's known for IMDb and
actually, yeah, Succession Troy adaptation as well.
Of course, he plays the famous author and adaptation.
Yeah, fantastic, great stuff. Kim Grace, I mentioned earlier
on is Molly Graham. She don't even worked with mine
before on that one episode of Mommy Vice which I was going to
bring up. Classic Miami Vice Thing is your
boy Crockett gets gets into a love affair with a woman that
lasts for one episode reasons. For whatever reason they can't
be together anymore by the end of it.
That pretty much happened on this one.
She's also in Brazil I mentioned earlier on as well.
Cool thing about this one is that this the Miami Vice we've
talked about before. Pretty much every episode of
Miami Vice at some point has a protracted long model montage
set to a popular bit of music from the time it started in the
very first episode within air tonight by Phil Collins.
We talked about it last week when we talked about Bruce
McGill and his one which was proposed in arms by Dire
Straits. Well, Kim Griese's montage is to
the song Heartbeat by Red 7. And wouldn't you know, the song
that ends this very movie is Heartbeat by by by Red 7 as
well, also with Kim Griese in the frame.
So yeah, we'll mention that. Sure, that's maybe a needle drop
more than a casting, but considering she did such little
else work, it's probably worth mentioning she was in.
She was in an episode of The X-Files as well.
June Allen, right? June Allen is a again, another
popular American character actor that will see in a lot of stuff.
Probably most known to guys watching this podcast for being
in the Bourne movies as the handler.
He's trying to track down Jason Bourne in those.
What else? You know June Allen from Guys,
but she was in the 2008 remake of Death Race 2000s, just called
Death Race. Holy shit, that's that's neat.
That's the Jason Statham one. Right.
Yeah, that's Jason Statham. Yeah, didn't see that coming.
Lizzy's story she was in, which is an update.
Yet another Stephen King adaptation.
Yeah. Wow.
She was in The Killing of the Bourne Legacy luck, which I
think is a Steven Soderbergh produced thing.
Pretty cool. We all may all know her as the
voice of Delphine from The Elder Scrolls 5 Skyrim.
I think her character looks a bit like her as well.
Jesus. Wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What else we got here?
Yes, obviously. All those Bourne movies.
Pleasantville. Do you remember Pleasantville?
She was Eve Archer and Face Off. Yeah, face off.
Big one there. Cool.
Stephen Lang, we talked, I talked a little bit about
earlier on. So Stephen Lang is most famous
now at the minute, probably still in the cinemas for the
Avatar movies. So obviously our fire now she's
the orcas high pool American military bad guy.
Who then? I've not been watching these
movies. I watched the first one when it
came out. I take it now that he's now also
one of the cat people. I don't know.
And so maybe it's a voice performance from Stephen Lang
now, not sure, but he's making some good money off it.
He was in that movie. Too.
Well, sorry, he's down this plane, Quartic.
And so I guess he's like just right, kind of.
Yeah. He played courage in in the way
of water. So that that's, that's Colonel
coffee cup, right? That's, that's, that's, that's
the bad guy from the first one, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So, so he gets yeah.
So what happens? I think he gets shot up at the
end of the first one, right? Yeah, yes, that's right.
And I, and I think the US, this is mental.
He I don't even know it's the US Is it the earth, the sky people,
military have their own way of making cat people.
Obviously that's how they made Jake Sully in that one.
They do this so to save his life.
They put his consciousness into a Big Blue cat person body,
right? Right.
Gotcha. Think I spoilers for fucking
avatar. I think that's what's happening
and then think think I don't. I've been watching them so don't
come up with Jimmy Cams but but James Cameron.
But I think I think what's going to be happening in these next
two movies is like he's going to be reconciling himself as I'm a
giant cat person now, but I'm also like this horrible,
terrible racist inside. Do I do I am IA coloniser, am IA
white coloniser or my Big Blue cat person.
I just don't know anymore. I just don't know is.
Is is the galaxy's first self hidden cat person.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, there's a deconstruction
of the white saviour archetype, which the film also happens to
have because fucking Sam Weatherton is the white saviour
archetype. You know he's the he's the left
headed fucking Jordan bar of the movie to make it Dances with
Walls comparison. How wild is it in hindsight that
like, I mean, you've seen the memes about this and what's
happened recently in geopolitical news and national
security, etcetera, that when when that card I ran avatars and
reduces like, oh, I see you're fought in the war in Venezuela.
That was some tough Bush. It's like, wow.
Yeah. So like, so like.
It suggests that America has been involved.
Sorry, Space, America, Earth has been involved in a war in
Venezuela for a bit more than a century at that point.
Tough Bush indeed. This is an incredible way to do
our podcast because the rates, the sheer rates of the news
cycle is like we can be talking about Venezuela this week.
We could publish this thing. It's going to get published in
about a week and 1/2 right By the time this is published, fuck
me man. Like Minnesota could be fucking
part of Canada. Like, like I could have been
caught up to serve on the Greenland front lines.
Like, you know, And then odd, odd secret third thing none of
us saw coming. Just just fucking smash cut to a
close up of a busted up laptop in an apartment somewhere.
We're playing on it camera. Camera pulls out to see that the
entirety of the building is destroyed and we're looking down
on a ruined St of some nondescript city and there's
fucking mushroom clouds off in the in in the fire and.
It's the ink spots. I don't want to set the wall on
fire. Yes, as we pull out war.
War never changes. Simply fucking intensifies and
duplicates. Jesus Christ.
So Stephen Lang's top 4 is Avatar, Avatar, The Way of War,
Don't Breathe, where he plays the old blind man in our house
that's being home invaded, but turns out he's the real threat.
I think is the store on that one.
I'm not home Centre Manhunter. We talk about Tombstone.
He's in Sisu Road to Revenge. I need to watch those movies.
Yeah, they look bad. They look they are very
unserious. Yes.
On series good. On series bad.
Entertaining on series. OK, great, great character
actor. I was expecting just scrolling
for this. Expecting a lot more westerns
from some of him. He has a return.
He's right. He's he does one of our famous
favourites A clearing present dudes thing here.
He plays a president who was known as the president in the
cast in a series of movies called Rogue Warfare.
He's in Rogue Warfare, Rogue Warfare 2, The Hunt, Rogue
Warfare, Death of a Nation, all these movies.
Two of them were made in 2019. One of them was made in 2020.
So back-to-back filming as the president.
Incredible. .5 stars on letterbox The 2019 Rogue
Warfare. This is the one, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A group of the best military
personnel from the US, Russia, UK, China and France to enforce
us to find underground terrorist networks.
So basically a shit version of Rainbow 6.
And what the fuck I can't believe, sorry half a star.
I can't believe there were two sequels to this.
The only way I could imagine this being any worse is if
everyone dressed up as Hitler and started doing impressions of
people with cerebral palsy. In what world?
God, in what world would an international counterterrorism
task force be manned by an entire squad of bumble fucks who
don't like each other, have never trained together, Not
have, sorry, no, have even ever fucking met the blonde.
Monotony makes time slow to an infinite crawl.
The plot is so cookie cut out that you can mistake it for a
bakery. The villain is so toothless that
a newborn is more threatening. I've seen plenty of bad war
movies, but even they can be slightly absolved thanks to
decent acting, action, or even my eye adherence is the basic
military protocol brackets. Unsurprisingly, they can't even
do that. Close brackets.
I know I shouldn't be getting bent out of shape over things
like that, but it's hard not to harp on it when the rest of the
movie is so all caps boring. I couldn't even make it halfway
before I felt like a grizzly bear on speed had been Jack
fucking my skull. One more time.
I couldn't even make it halfway before I felt like a grizzly
bear on speed had been Jack fucking my skull.
I needed to read that out again. It was a beautiful line.
Anyway, this sucks. Heed my warning.
Don't bother with it. Bars.
Hold up Aaron's writing Is this fire?
Thank you, Aaron. Black box for.
People who often zone out during these things.
That was the film Rogue Warfare that we are not covering on this
board together. Yeah, fucking one star.
One star. All I can see is I finished the
film without turning it off. Pretty high praise, yeah.
Assuming lying. Also just to wrap him up is also
in the Michael Mann movie Public Enemies as well which is the the
one about John Dillinger which I haven't seen since it came out
because it has Johnny Zepp in and he does my head in.
Right. Cool.
Should we got some trivia for for this movie?
I I just want to do a little bit of crew and rather than casting.
Yes, please. Sorry.
Yeah, we talked about this. Yeah.
Because I looked a little bit into the work of the films.
Cinematographer the the director of photography.
Who's the name of just fucking? Dante Spinotti.
Yes, so my initial wonders looked in at this guy saying did
he did he did he work on any jello films that were then like
the main Jello guys? It didn't, but his his film work
in like the Italian film industry.
He's done some off killed off strange stuff.
He's done a lot of comedies and stuff, which I'll find wild, but
out of the films he's done that have English language Wikipedia
entries. I love how just sparse these
descriptions are these super the answer.
Disobedience is 1981 Italian drama film directed by Aldo
Laro. It's based on a novel of the
same name written by Alberto Moravia.
We go to its plot, the adventures of Luca Manzi, a
teenager living in Northern Italy during wartime.
Luca Manzi is a 14 year old boy. When the fascists govern the
Northern Italy Republic of Salo, he becomes a partisan.
But when the war ends, he's disappointed because things have
not changed as he'd hoped they would, and he decides to let
himself die. He is saved by Edith, who tries
to introduce him to sex. Tries.
That's the whole of the plot
section on the English language wiki.
I bet the Italian language wiki has like 17 paragraphs and it's
all really who tries to introduce him to sex.
She gives it the old college try.
Concerned that she's only 14 minutes happening as well.
Yeah, the dark side of love The dark side of love Italian photo
Grafando Patrizia. I'm sorry for doing this when I
speak Italian by the way, for those who are the main I'm I'm
doing Italian pinch finger thing.
I'm so fucking sorry. Photo Grafandio Patrizia is a
1984 Italian erotic romantic drama film written and directed
by Salvatore Sampere. The film, which has a scabrous
main theme, was an incest between a sister and a poor
obsessed brother, was a box office success.
It's just. It's just a scripture that comes
at you from multiple angles at the same time.
I've got the legend of the holy drinker.
Italian La Liganda dos Santo Bevitore.
I love. Bevitore is drinker.
That's me. It's like warrior.
You're a piss head. No brother, I'm a hellraiser
now. It's no brother, I'm a bevitore.
It's a 1988 Italian film written and directed by Amano Almi.
A drunken homeless man, Rukahawa in Paris is LED 200 francs by a
stranger as long as he promises to repair to a local church
where he could afford to. The film depicts the mods
constant frustrations as he attempts to do so.
That sounds actually really good.
Doesn't it? And just this last one, this
crazy thing. Fair game.
Italian Mamba is a 19 is a 1988 Italian thriller horror film
written directed by Mario Orfini.
After being dumped by his girlfriend Eva, who was tired of
his unrelentingly negative and sexist attitude, Dean decides to
take revenge by killing her with a mamba venomous snake, into
which she also injected hormones to increase its aggressiveness.
The film bombed at the Italian box office, crossed a goodly
539.5 million lira. It was distributed in 36 foreign
countries. 539,000,000 lira, which is about £20 in the pound
period. Yeah, mad mad shit.
These these little stories here, these like snippets of these
film are just crazy to me and I just found that very
entertaining. Can I ask you a question or two?
I think I'm doing it. It's devil's advocate for all
listeners, but also because I don't really know because I
looked at it once and I forgot about it.
When we talk about Jello movies, what what is the what are the
hallmarks of a jello movie? And why does the movie about the
14 year olds attempting to have sex with somebody not count?
So it sounds to me like more of like a drama kind of post war
kind of exploration of like exploration of romance.
I guess Jello films have these more kind of like abstract.
We had crazy plots. They have they have certain
tropes that kind of a bite to like it's about the psychosexual
violence against women. You have elements that you have
like the idea of like masked killers.
You have tropes like close-ups on gloved hands and shit like
that. Extreme violence mixed with
weirdly jarring, sometimes fun and playful and jazzy music.
One, one comment I read on analysis of the music used in
Jello films is that you can watch a film where a woman's
being slowly decapitated and there's a jazz piano in the
background. The idea that like they use
these very stylish leads, There's lots of like, kind of
like the film's gears kind of like lands upon like the fashion
and the way these characters are dressed.
That's kind of a big thing. It is visual and surface level
and there's lots of like storytelling with like pull out
schemes and stuff like that so that that that particular boy
becomes a partisan. Hopefully he becomes of age when
the lady attempts introducing the sex.
Doesn't sound like a jello because it sounds a bit deeper.
Like a lot of jello is a very Helix surface level kind of
thing at times. Yeah, there you go.
I think like the most jello sounding 1 is probably that one
with the scabrous relationship between the incestuous brother
and sister. Or maybe the one when the when
when the guy's porn addicted guna and kills his girlfriend
with a mamba. However, the Wikipedia doesn't
call them specifically jello films.
It might be time for me to do a deep dive.
But beyond clear and present jelloists were clear and present
dudes. OK, Yeah, right.
Should we do some trivia for the movie Manhunter?
Please. OK.
So this was a box office bomb. We talked about that already.
So it was a $15 million budget. It made a box office 8.6
million. So it took a big loss just on
its original budget, not even marketing and so on.
This is the first adaptation novel of Red Dragon and it was
one of several busts for producer Dino De Laurentiis.
So context for him listen on this particular trivia mentions
Maximum OverDrive, which is the Stephen King directed and
written movie about the trucks that become sentient because of
a meteor. And that's insane.
Just cocaine. If it was a movie, Stephen.
King, you spoke too hard. You're pitched apart.
You're sparked too different. They'll kill you.
Stephen King. Yeah, not silver yet.
Very really not silver yet. Very.
Much form as the movie what's not this is here but definitely
comes as June from 984. Those who were part of this this
path of teams or low enters, was it him or was it his daughter
actually produced that one? But it's a De Lorean to his
production anyway. Yeah.
So De Laurentiis sold the sequel rights to Orion for like a
pittance, practically nothing. And then putting, you know, five
years later, science alarms, freaking humongous success, 5
Oscars, just like ridiculous. So yeah, interesting.
We've already mentioned some of the expert castings.
So that vet and the tiger scenes are real vet and Dennis Rena is
a real cop Incredibly awesome. It's like they might have
pulled, sorry, it looks like they might have pulled real cops
in to play the SWAT team because they notice it was a bunch of
guys just creditors, officer, etcetera.
Bunch of dudes with credits whose name included the title
officer. So I wonder if Michael Mann in
his kind of quest for quest for realism, just like took on like
a bunch of cops to play the play like the SWAT team for like the
attempt to capture scene when he when he accidentally mugs a guy.
Because again, it seems like Michael Mann realism and
attentionally did ill, but I can't see any confirmation of it
on the Internet. Which, yes, no, yeah, I just
want to spread misinformation. But it's certainly possible,
isn't it? Yeah.
This movie in France, it's French title translates to The
6th Sense. So if you are French and you're
trying to watch the M Knight Chalaman movie The 6th Sense,
you may find yourself watching Manhunter instead, which is
quite fun. Parisa backlash Brian Cox has
never regretted playing this role but he has expressed
disdain to how the characters become idolised and it's true as
an anti hero by both fans and the official media.
To him, how to look there is very much a monster and remains
a monster. That's interesting.
Jesus. This one's quite quaint.
Tom Noonan began bodybuilding in preparation for his role because
he wanted to be a bit buff, because he thought the size of
him intimidated people. And that's how you should be
perceived. I think if you were anybody in a
movie nowadays, and you're going to have to get your shirt off,
you're expected to be like Jack. Yeah, I haven't seen that.
I haven't seen a normal shirtless body in film as long
as I can remember. Yeah, and the the guy who plays
the truth fairy in the Hannibal TV series is Swole Ears, ears,
ears ripped. The dude's got some fucking back
gains. Dude's backspiration man TomTom
Noonan. Like he's the kind of guy who he
looks like he doesn't even need lift because he's like right
there is there is a phenomenon of men who were tall think in
the heart just because the tall know what I mean, and it's
obviously not the case because I mean, I once saw this like big
like fucking 6 foot four guy on an eye out and two and get
dismantled by the sake fucking 5 foot 5 Raji.
But TomTom Newland looks double hard and probably would even
even without like having to train, you know?
Absolutely. Another Tom Newman, in fact, is
into the shooting. Michael Mann initially had
Francis Dollahyde have a ginormous tattoo of a red dragon
on his chest and back. Yeah.
So they filmed a shit tonne of stuff with this ginormous chest
and back piece on on Tom Noonan. And then he decided during the
shooting that actually I prefer it without because I guess it's
like an implies confidence in abilities to operate in public
for a man to go off and get like a ginormous chest and back
piece, which is a bit cool and edgy.
And I guess this guy is in his own life, a bit of a quiet
reserved nerd and is a bit anti social.
So they thought it would be weird from to actually have
that, so they they removed that from the movie.
There's another thing that they didn't do, which is in the book,
which is whilst he's struggling with his new found love
relationship with Reba, the character tries to get rid of
his tendencies by finding the painting he's obsessed with.
He's obsessed with Pulliam Blake's painting of the red
dragon and the woman bathed in gold.
So not something it's called. And it goes to the the museum
where the painting's been displayed and steals it and eats
it. Yeah, I think it totally works.
He doesn't like to be beheld by people unless it's in his that
kind of specific way that he wants to be seen by them.
So to like sit through what multiple multiple hours of
tattoo work to get like a back and chess piece wouldn't feel
within within his within his like kind of characters
motivations and the way he thinks and acts.
So very good call. I've got some casting trivia
that I didn't go through, but so one of the FBI texts is played
by Chris Elliott. Do you know Chris Elliott?
Is Cabin Boy You familiar with the movie Cabin Boy?
I am not. He is right.
What else is he? He was an SNL guy.
He was also in He's the cameraman in Groundhog Day.
He's annoying Phil Connors all the time.
So he's this comedy actor and he he played, he was in this famous
flop called Cabin Boy I employ. Chris Elliott, yes, I've, I've
just pulled him up and yes, yeah, he is an eternal that guy.
Yeah, so he's he's in it. So that's that's not very weird.
There's some other casting what could have been.
So Brian Cox was not the first choice for Hannibal Lecter.
Brian Denny was in the loop to play Hannibal Lecter, and he was
the one who recommended Brian Cox to the production.
So Brian Denny and Rambo, first blood, very big imposing guy.
Normally plays a big cop or something and stuff.
Yeah. So he's he's he was in there.
Other people on the list to play Halibut Lecter in this movie.
Bruce Stern, Don Lithgow, who was Jonathan Denny's also second
choice for the role but didn't get selected.
Monty Patinkin as well. Holy crap.
And then also Michael Mann considered and this is my
favourite 1. Michael Mann also considered
William Friedkin to do the acting as Could you imagine that
William Friedkin? Holy crap.
So that's William Friedkin, director of the Exorcist and
cruising is is the real life, I think is the real life
inspiration for Garth Morengi like.
No doubt. Fantastic.
For the role of Will Graham, the studio really wanted Don Johnson
to play him. I don't think that will work, in
my personal opinion, but he was obviously on his high from being
in the the sensation that is Miami Vice.
And the role of Sonny Crockett is also kind of similar in the
sense that he's like an underground, an undercover cop.
He's struggling with becoming too undercover and losing track
of the the way out. But in that show, it's so light
touch. Like they talk about it but then
isn't live. He doesn't.
You don't see him suffering in it at all.
He just has these, like, occasional phone calls where
it's like you get yourself so, so far in there, you don't know
you're going to come back out again.
I don't even know who I am. And sometimes I remember I'm
Sonny Crockett and all this kind of shit.
And it's just like, yeah, OK. Yeah, and, and like, I mean, in
contrast, this film is just a long, dark night of the soul.
Yeah, Don Johnson is like, effortlessly.
He's too cool as well, which is not so you know, that's not an
insult to to to to your man, just like he's saying he's not
cool. But Don Johnson is is just too
cool And the box office, I think like the audience would have
been expecting something a bit different from Don Johnson, I
think if they saw him, you know, like the I think the BI mean,
not that this movie succeeded anyway, but like Jesus, people
were kicked off, I think, and I might have harmed Don Johnson's.
Yeah, because, because, because, because right here is too cool.
I mean, like people would have been like, hold on.
He's he's wearing like a pastel coloured T-shirt and a suit
jacket with the sleeves rolled up.
Why? Because this film's not because,
because, because, you know, he would just like slip back and it
was mowed and turn up in his own gear from my happy vice.
Like, you know what? Totally.
To your mind, it's like, Oh no, I've just, I've, I've just
become Crockett. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm on an
insanely huge amount of cocaine right now.
I can't remember where I am. Jesus Christ.
I'm about to go with marry a 15 year old like what the fuck
Jesus Christ. No fucking way.
Yeah, I'm not fully versed on the story, so I don't want to
say anything too dodgy, but but look at the story of look at the
story of Don Johnson and Melanie Griffith and then and then get
back to me. Cool, right?
Other people suggested for Will Grim, Jeff Bridges, Harrison
Ford, Richard Gere, Mel Gibson, Carl McLaughlin, which I think
is a De Laurentiis production thing, must come from Paul
Newman and Mickey Rourke. Also considered of all those
people, I think Mickey Rourke would have done pretty well.
I. Think you would have?
Also, sorry, one more John Johnson.
In fact, also Don Johnson, considered for the role of
Francis Dollarhyde, would have absolutely stank that place out.
He would have. He would have biffed it.
That would have been really fucking bad.
Yeah, that would be awful. Yeah, absolutely no chance.
Oh, look at me. I'm I'm, I'm Dollar Hyde.
I'm played by one of the fucking coolest dudes in 1980s.
I just can't get any pussy, man. I've got to kill people because
of it. No, no.
You're here to watch this witness might be coming.
I'm gonna like what? The No.
Hey, do you like tigers? I'm gonna like what?
Well. Yeah.
Wild already. I'm just imagining I'm like
fucking one handing a shotgun like Tom Noonan doesn't just
because he hasn't got the size that just like the recoil is not
controllable, it just hits him with the fucking face.
Yeah, I like that idea of Don Johnson had been dollarhide and
said instead of taking reboot to go and see a tiger, he would
have like taken it's like to see it to stroke an alligator.
Yeah, he would. This is my pet, Reggie.
He went from Tom Broward to fucking speedboat.
Yeah. Which would not be which.
I mean, I guess should get the sound of the sensation of the
Sierra and stuff, but really she was just bumping around at a
rapid pace. Bumping around, yeah.
He could, he could, he could do that in like a 4 by 4 just on,
on, on a fucking vacant loss, you know, And it's like, come
on, man. Amazing.
God, you ever tried cocaine? Oh my God, just wow.
This. Yeah, man, he wouldn't be the
red dragon, he'd be the white dragon, if you get me.
Michael Mann was not the first choice to direct this movie, and
David Lynch was an early consideration for the role of
director, having because he was still under contract with De
Lorentis after Dune. However, David Lynch rejected
this role, finding the story to be, quote, violent and
completely degenerate. I love favourite Lynch.
So good. Violent.
It's completely degenerate. Pot, this is kettle gonna check
over like this is from the same man who five years later would
make fucking Twin Peaks, Fire Walk of Me and Wild at Heart and
fucking Blue Velvet. So show me a film that is more
violent and degenerate than Blue Velvet.
I think you love that. Fucking love him so much
honestly. He's so good.
Yeah. He's like, oh, I'll make a
review about a killer, but not your killer.
Yeah, this, this, this one's degenerate.
This I love. This I love, yeah, I love this I
do that like. My degeneracy is way more
tasteful than yours, Sir. Yeah, like Ray Wise comes in,
He's like, you're sweet. And then like Tom Nuni walks in.
He's like, hello, human resources, like.
Bloody hell. Woo.
Cool, That's that's that's as much trivial as I can stomach.
Gentlemen, weapons free. Rory O'Toole.
I want you to talk to me about weapons in this movie.
You've got you've got opinions. Holy shit.
Yeah. And I think most of my opinions
are good about this. I'm not going to be like, read
the guns are on kind of thing for a start.
So this this this film actually stars Jim Zubini, who you may
remember Mike from last year when I sent you that video clip
of that incredibly rapid Mozambique drill from the
episode of Miami Face. Nice, yeah.
Yeah, Jim. Jim Zubien is an American
competitive shooter. He's a marksman who's worked
with Michael Man a lot. He played an assassin in an
episode of the Miami Vice, an incredibly iconic performance by
him, leading lots of people on YouTube to see if if you get in
a car in Miami and your driver's wearing yellow shooting glasses,
get out of the car. Jim Zubien's in the film and
provides provides Will Graham with special ammunition to to to
take out Francis Tholeheit, which is a real thing he's
talking about. He is talking about a kind of a
frangible ammunition. The blue tipped ammo that he
provides refers to as Glazer safety slugs.
Glazer safety slugs are a real Glazer safety ammunition is a
real product. The make the make or made
ammunition chamber. I think up from 22 long rifle up
to 30 ought 6 basically rounds that were like a regular bullet
with a with a kind of a polymer cup behind that polymer cup, a
fuck tonne of birdshot. So they're essentially rounds
designed flag causing deep penetrate and wounds on people.
Kind of like the design not a ricocheted badly inside inside
buildings and close quarters and stuff like that.
He makes a big deal that these are flag.
These are guaranteed one shots up despite haven't used
multiple. I think it's a blank.
It's a cool thing. Some of the explanation gives us
a bit bit wrong. He tells them to Ela tells them
that it's that it's that it's got like I think a Teflon round
in it or something. No, no, he says he's he says
he's got a Teflon round in it. I believe the what does he say?
Polymer actually can't remember now I'm just double check my
notes and shit. Yeah, that's right.
He says that the that the suspended and liquid Teflon and
the pond impact opens all up in the target.
A guaranteed one shot stop. That's not kind of how the work.
There was discourse about Teflon coated bullets in the US media
at the time in terms of being armour piercing things.
But no, there's there's a polymer in in these rounds,
whether at this point it was capping the end of it and was
full of birdshot or they had it when there was like a polymer
ball in it on further iterations with birdshot behind it.
Much like kind of like the old school book and ball loadout
that have with with with muskets and stuff.
I think that's really fucking cool.
It's it's it's really cool to say, to say Tom Noonan one hand
in that shotgun, which was Jim Zubinas from home.
He brought that in himself. That was his personal weapon.
The Jim Zubinas brought in the shotgun for Tom Noonan, who used
to thought was incredibly slick resting appearance of the night
vision scopes on the police marksman that I couldn't fucking
identify or really upset us. That was painful.
But yeah, I love like, just like some like the shots as well,
like the fucking appearances of like the kind of I'm looking
down at this down the barrel image of, of Will Graham
pointing, pointing his pointing his Charter Arms 44 bulldog at
the camera. It's it's in focus.
He's he's kind of blurry and you can like see like those like
special blue tip bullets in it, which I think is really cool.
The Charter Arms bulldog was actually the weapon that the Son
of Sam Killer used. So this is a book initially
written about a serial killer. He was called the 44 calibre
killer wasn't he? Along with the Son of Sam
killer. It was written only a few years
after I think Son of Sam Killam spree ended and the hero of the
book is using the exact same weapon the the Son of Sam the
dealer book. Which, yeah, go on.
I was going to say I did read that.
Tom Harris said it better than with some FBI profilers and
stuff and research for the book. Yeah, yeah.
So I I found that really cool. And like I said, there's there's
just the guns in it realistically picked for the
era. You know, you've got the cool
commando of the XM177 assault rifle that SWAT guys are using.
There's one one guy with an Uzi because Uzi's a fucking cool.
Yeah. I like the guns in this film,
like I said, especially like there's an appearance made by
him, by him, Jim Zubena. I like, it's interesting.
I like, it's interesting kind of granularity about the ammunition
and stuff. And it kind of gets most of the
explanation of frangible rounds right, without like going in
like actually fragile rounds. Here's why they're so good.
Like I just did you see what I'm being?
So I was looking at I just, I just did a very bit of quick
like look at it fragile rounds and stuff.
First of all, I'm going to see are they legal for for civilian
use? Several states apparently have
banned them in the US and you can't get them in the UK
anymore. I think you could be supposed to
get them in the Uki was reading some some blog posts here where
somebody managed to get some of a former SAS operator who'd been
allowed to have them or something for some reason.
They were looking at what would the legal standing be if you
even if you did a killing in self defence defence or defence
of your property or your home or whatever.
But you had these rounds, how to make you appear to a jury or in
a court or law because this person is saying like, well I
think I'd be reluctant to face a coroner, inquest or a grand
jury. Have to explain why I use a non
standard pistol round or around designed to cause the maximum
damage when I suppose what you're trying to do is deter
people from your end and engagement.
You're not necessarily trying to kill them because if you're a
civilian doing self defence, you're probably not operating to
the same doctrine that you would in the military or in law
enforcement, which is to bring somebody down to prevent grave,
grave in imminent danger. And there's no way to prevent
the danger and shoot to kill, which is, you know, centre of
mass kind of thing. I think if you're a if you're
civilians, it's a grey area where and obviously, again, if
you're in the military, in law enforcement, you are using the
ammunition that you're provided with.
So unless you've deviated from it there, in which case that's
definitely an indicator that something's the fuck is going
on. I think it's a civilian.
I think you'd have a hard time explaining why I used a non
standard round to affect a kill, which it sounds like, well, why
do you have that ammunition in the 1st place?
Like why are you using this? Absolutely.
You know, I get that, I understand that.
And then they said here, what you would probably do is or
most, most police departments are using pretty good ammunition
that provides more inadequate stopping power and being able to
state to a Jew that you use gold dots or whatever because you
check to see what the local Police Department is using and
choose to use that ammo because you're doing what the experts
are doing kind of thing. That is that probably just
easier than saying, oh, I deviated and got and went for
something that sounds like cool. Obviously the nearest kind of
comparison I could make off the top of my head hearing that is
the the process of taking a regular ball ammunition and then
scoring the top to make a dum dum bullet to use the bullets
casing as part of the projectile.
It's inside the bodies to create shrapnel, which is that's not,
that's not legal. And obviously you're modifying
the rounds then and put them into an unsafe condition.
This sounds like ammunition that's designed to do that by
design to affect that effect. And obviously that's that's
that's viewed pretty negatively. Yeah.
I mean, I think like the main reason why they kind of like had
pushed out that was the idea that in in the case of like
ricochets, it's not likely a ricochet because it's
essentially like a, a smaller projector with a sick fucking
difficult amount of like birdshot behind it.
Yeah, I think there was a case in Florida that someone defended
the the home using this kind of ammunition.
And I think the the the media reported it as using exploding
bullets, which doesn't that that that isn't good for you.
I just imagine the kind of damage to these things and
fucking fit your six would do though, because I mean, like,
you know, like it's like full, full, full power rifle round.
That would be crazy. Yeah.
Like, it's like a lot of what you're referring to.
It's like I've like done a lot like reading up on this and just
kind of hung around within discourse about the ideas of
like, does it speak to premeditation in terms like the
ending yourself in court? So like, for instance, I saw
some some discourse about a guy who's the civilian in in the
states, obviously, whose whose personal concealed carry weapon
was was Sami automatic of some kind.
I'm I'm actually not super good like identifying pistols and
more like, oh, that's that's ex kind of rifle.
But so it was some kind of largely generic semi automatic.
They'd had it car recorded with like pictures of the joke.
I don't like all the ha ha stuff on on on the grip.
So I'd say yeah, if if you use that to defend yourself.
Any jury is going to be like, well, any, any, any lawyer's
going to say the jury. This guy went out wanting to
shoot someone. He's gussied up his gun,
ridiculous degrees. He's got a pitch for the fucking
Joker on it. This guy didn't want to
deescalate, didn't want to put himself out of the position.
He's he's he's he's just killed the dude kind of thing.
And like there's there's like just some more sort of things
like I've heard about like cops having fucking Bible verses
engraved on the guns and like saying like, no, dude, fucking
don't because yeah, yeah, you were, you were going to go to
gaol forever. Even if you get involved in like
a legitimate officer involved shooting because they're going
to fucking pull out. And it's like, oh, John 316.
OK, so you wanted to kill this guy.
And it's like, it is, it is interesting.
So I think that's why you use anything that can be deemed as
like special sexy, cool ammunition, you know, is is
could be taken. It's like, well, this guy didn't
just want to defend himself, right?
You wanted to have fun with it, and you wanted to see someone
die in a cool, interesting way. Yeah, I say, isn't it?
Yeah, I think, I think you're absolutely right.
I think if you use any funk emission like this, you're
standing yourself in a date. I mean, fuck me, man, What we're
talking about here. Don't shoot people.
Imagine like the kind of behaviour of like a responsible
mature gun owner who knows the fucking fatal capabilities
weapon would be to use like a standard weapon that they're
familiar with and trained with to shoot to stop the threat
usually mean it to kill. But when you're when you like
put in ideas of like I'm using this really cool, like fucking
birdshot kind of stuff, which which which does sound cool, is
fucking I guess safe for sake. You'll be if you are going to
accidentally get ricochets and stuff, you are going to kind of
you're going to open yourself up to someone saying well, well,
well, this guy's clearly ladies and gentlemen, the jewellery.
This guy went out his way to buy the more expensive animal.
It's really cool and gets talked about on the film Manhunter, you
know, because not only did he want to stop the threat, he
wanted to have fucking fun doing it, and he thinks about it more
than he should. Yeah, I think there's a very,
very fine line probably on a on a spectrum, a continuum of being
a responsible gun owner and doing your research and then
tipping into like, oh, you're doing too much research now
you're getting too into it. And now you're and now you're
there's, there's the responsible gun owner and then there's like
you've, you're a gun nut is what you are.
Well, well, well, yeah, that's the thing.
That's like I kind of like Seth, like this course I've seen
between people talking about like like like in the States.
So I was like open carry, concealed carrier, just having
self defence weapons in general. That's like the idea is you want
to look like, you can see I've done all this training, I've
gone to these courses. I'm not carrying a weapon that's
got pictures of the Jared Leto fucking joke around it, you
know? And this makes me not a gun nut.
The automatic fucking snarl makes us did that when the
Javard little joke I was mentioned was fantastic.
Just for those of us doing theatre of the main and not
watching the video. Yeah, not even the Jack
Nicholson fucking joke it right? Like, right, we've talked about
guns too much. Wow.
Needle drops. OK, so the soundtracks to this
movie is by a band called the Reds.
Different pits all of you, because they haven't got a lot
of output. A few records, but there's not a
lot about them online. I tried to find out about them
online and I couldn't find a great deal.
Nevertheless, the soundtrack does sound like prior Michael
Mann soundtracks. He's used Tangerine Dream before
and this doesn't sound 1,000,000 miles away from that big synth
heavy stuff. A non diegetic, very in your
face soundtrack. And there's a piece of music
called Bill Graham's theme, which is I think you can find
recreations of on on Spotify and other good streamers.
So it gives you a bit of a flavour for it.
But yeah, weird, couldn't find that.
And then the other two big Neil drops.
I'll I'll mention Heartbeats again, which is the the track
that plays over the end by an artist called Red 7A different
artist. There's the Reds and Red 7 Jesus
Christ from different cities. So not the same artist.
The other big one is, which I don't know about you, I don't
know about you, but my main form of reference to that is that one
episode of The Simpsons where they play on the organ in the
church for ages and ages and ages.
Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's it's, it's such
a good song. It's it's always been the most
iconic meal drop in the film for me.
In general, I think it's just one of the goodest songs ever in
in the history of rock music. So out there compared to the
rest of the soundtrack, which is very synth synth based and yeah,
80s sounding. It's it's almost a jarring kind
of dissonance between that and the rest of the soundtrack, I
think, which I think makes it even punchier.
Yeah, and it makes it kind of highlights that he's Dollar
Hyde's kind of out of step with the rest of the world as well.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. There's no kind of idea, there's
no film that Dollar Hyde is a man out of time or not linked to
like the zeitgeist of the era, art from that film part part
from that song, which is on from a different decade, from a
different generation at this point.
And there's no kind of always like a man out of time, out of
space kind of thing. But with this song being so
generally different, it shows how out of out of society and
out of normality he is. The chess and the mess, which is
a new category that you you missed Sonya that we just last
week so catch you up on it VHS. And the mess is would this movie
play well in the wardroom or the senior rich mess or the junior
rich mess on a ship knowing not only is it a good movie, is it
like a Bank of a blockbuster movie?
Is it the kind of movie that lots of people could sit around
and enjoy or is it just a bit too weird?
What do you think? I think it's a bit too weird to
be honest, like automated kids movies, actually those tend to
be very popular because they're light hearted and and break the
mood. I don't like, I don't know, I
think this this is a bit too much for a relaxed get together
with a few drinks or something while you're in port and
especially underway. It's like I haven't seen shit
for two weeks. Let me put on this really weird
serial killer catching film that gives us all extra anxiety.
It's. Not it's not pitch perfect, is
it? Not really, no.
I mean, maybe in the office's mess because there's always not
one weirdo who has to do that. But yeah, but but not like not
in the in the senior raids I didn't or anything like that,
no. Yeah, somebody like a more
standard if there's going to be a crime for a little bit like
Fast and Furious or something. Yeah, yeah.
What was the last film you guys both saw in in the mess?
Not necessarily watched, just like was aware of and glanced at
the screen perhaps from going through.
I'm not asking which was the last one you sat down and just.
Drunk. I do remember this.
The last film I sat down and watched the mess from start to
finish was Die Hard. Keno Sanya.
I didn't remember because the last time I was four years ago,
Last Officer's Mess was too busy hating each other to to spend
time watching a film together. In every moment.
Yeah, I think it was actually some animated kids film they
were going to watch that was in the the PO's mess three years
ago, not 4, but still. I don't, I don't remember the
title. I think it was something Disney.
Frozen or Moana or something? Yeah, yeah, so, so yeah, so
very, very light hearted. If they made a video game of
Manhunter, what kind of video game would they make?
Very bizarre abstract full motion video RPG released on the
Philips video that bombs completely.
Wow, that's a very specific answer.
I like that. So like, like, like who are you?
Are you playing as Graham? You're playing as Will Graham
and you're going through like cutscenes and stuff like phone
motion video kind of like stuff as you're seeing things from
inside Dollar Hydes kind of mind kind of thing.
You're kind of getting getting more in touch with his mindset
as you get closer and closer to the end game.
You know, I've never played an FMV game all the way to the end,
so I don't quite know how these things generally climaxed.
I've got a few actually. Yeah.
So there's the original X-Files FMV game.
I didn't even know there was 1. Mate, you need to look that up,
it is incredible. So they filmed so much footage
for it. Moulder and Scully are in it for
a short period of time that you can play as.
You can choose between who you you play as, but you play as a
different agent. Yeah.
And Moulder and Scully disappear and you're investigating their
disappearance, right? Yeah.
Right. But you can go around
interviewing people and talking people and like looking at stuff
in you go through different rooms, you can click on objects
and stuff. And this man, they spent so much
time. It's this is classic where they
put like a lot of effort into the front end of the game and it
kind of trails off towards the back end.
But yeah, you can like click on a stapler in a room and they'll
have recorded a footage of a guy going, hey, that's my stapler.
Leave it alone. And like, just show you that.
It's like they've put too much effort in all the wrong stuff.
But yeah, that's fantastic. Good pull.
Yeah, definitely. I was going to say, are you
familiar with the games of David Cage, such as Rain and
Fahrenheit and Beyond? Two Souls in Detroit?
Yeah. OK.
Is he French? David Cage?
I think he's French for the company Quantic Dream.
And before, like Heavy Rain is like the most acceptable kind of
popular one that did really well despite the fact that it's got
all those cringy memes like Jason, Sean, all that, all that,
all that stuff. But David Cage is like, he's one
of those films. He's he is French.
Yeah. He's one of those film makers
who wants to make games that are like movies and look like
movies. OK.
Which is you're starting in bad faith.
You're you're making a medium to try and make it into a different
medium, right. But he did this.
He did this game called Fahrenheit where you play this
guy and it starts amazingly. You've just committed a murder
and a diner because you've been like possessed or something by
some kind of evil spirit. And then you immediately have to
start covering up the murder straight away and getting out
the diner And there's police in the diner just having a meal and
you've got to like tidy up the bathroom because it happened in
the bathroom. You've got like hide the body
somewhere, include the bathroom and then escape somehow before.
And then it has like a split screen thing happens where like
a person gets up and he's like, I'm going to the bathroom now
and like starts walking towards you.
Like starts really starts really strong and then just like it
falls off. It does like all these like
QuickTime, QuickTime scenes, things that you could like hit
the button right in the right order kind of thing to make
stuff happen. And there's a whole bit where
you have the same character in his apartment and he picks up a
guitar and you would like to play the guitar to the same like
to some rock music that he's put on.
And it's just like, what is this?
It's very interesting. It's not boring.
You start as this guy who's been possessed by Neil Spirit.
You end the game as the Internet.
Don't ask me how Yes. So that is that's the game.
I think this would be like it's French Sonya, but it's set in
like Chicago. Well.
OK so so my idea would be some so basically not very high
resolution click and read horror game.
Yeah. Because I can see like yesterday
you talked a lot about different scenes, quoting other images and
paintings and whatnot. And I could really see that
working out as, as slightly pixelated stills in a, in a
video horror game where you have either some, some voice over or
you've got to do some context reading.
And you don't really get a lot of I have to walk here and it's
not very flashy. It's more music and vibes based.
Oh. That's cool.
Yeah, Big one Vibes is a really big one for for this Sonia.
That's a really good pull dude. So you could be like you could
be like inspecting all the the packs of the of the previous
cases kind. Of thing yeah, something like
that. Wait, you just have a top down
perspective of a desk with a bunch of different files on it
that you can click through? Or you you have it like that
scene with Lecter in this cell where you've just have him
staring at you with a weird voice over.
Or or you have to to read something in parallel.
That's cool. I like that.
I like a sort of old Division game.
It was a game, the game that came out last year but looks a
lot. How's like the vibe of some that
came out a lot older, but apparently they're really well
called. The root trees are dead and it's
like a murder mystery kind of game where you've got all the
clues you've got to put together the family trees and it's like
you're looking for newspaper clippings and like over bits and
bobs to get all that information to put together the mystery.
I kind of like that. Yeah.
That's cool. I think it's.
Yeah. That sounds really cool.
Sorry. Before I forget, would you like
to look through the notes from the peanut gallery?
Let's see what our friends on Letterbox think about this film.
We'll begin with reviews. Just one star for this film.
One star. He caught a serial killer using
vibes and bad lightning lighting.
Sorry, one star. The only thing I take away from
this movie is that William Peterson really pulls off
wearing shorts. Another one star.
Still the worst thing I've ever watched.
So this is a polarising movie man.
Man is probably another one. Another one star.
Sorry, my least favourite major director.
Manhunter. Feels like a long Miami Vice
episode. Disagree.
The acting is subpar from everyone.
There were line deliveries in there where I thought you didn't
want to do another take. The blood in the final showdown
looked like a ketchup squirting from the bottle.
No comment. No comment.
I can't stand the leads acting. The first time I watched this, I
turned it off after the scene in the tree and people love this
movie. QT that is one of the six good
movies of the 80's. The six good movies of the 80s
is savage, by the way. That's.
Insane. Is is QT Quentin Tarantino?
Yeah, and he's a fucking idiot like Bill Way.
He's the kind of guy who would say there are only 6 good movies
in the whole 80s. They'll all be shit as well.
Yeah. Manhunter, which we love, yeah.
I don't see the peel. Maybe in 1986.
This was groundbreaking for a serial killer movie.
Now Manhunter is drowning in broken VHS tapes and nostalgia.
2 star zone. Now I'm not sure what kind of
magical contacts the 1st 10 minutes that I missed of this
movie had, but damn was I lost. What the actual hell is going
on? Three tomato emojis?
What if a serial killer just needs to date a body and he
would stop another two star? A film called Manhunter by Mr
Mann should never have been allowed a great two star.
Yeah what a load of hogwash and poppycock.
The fucking view of some Victorian die that's.
A hogwash. When I wanted the three star
reviews. Three stars Psycho yuppie glam.
In the final scene, Will Graham is wearing the sluttiest,
shortest shorts I've ever seen on a man.
These older movies are tough for me to get into, but this is
pretty solid by the end. That's the epitome of a three
star review actually, if you exclude the slutty shorts bit,
which is like good for its time. Nothing to rhyme.
Three stars 6 foot 7. My man should have been in the
league our our three stars free on Tubi My ass movie had like 12
ads in it. What a laughably dated.
This gets an extra half star of a red dragon because Will felt
like a real human grappling with some complicated issues instead
of just being the perfect detective.
Also him jumping through the glass door on the climax and
landing nose to nose with Dollar Hyde was sick as fuck and felt
very earned. It was another three star
reviews. Jump through window.
Very 80s, not as best. Good looking film, good story
but a bit silly at points. We have got into the four-star
zone now. Four stars from Tianas
Papadopoulos. Who opens cool shit?
Alfonso Alvarez, 2 stars or pounds?
I love you Michael mAh. Dog's breath 25 Will Graham, gun
and hand running head 1st through a floor to ceiling
window towards the unarmed killer is one of the decisions
of all time. Was he planning on just tackling
Dollar Hyde? Three question Marks and in slow
motion no less. Unmistakably 80s and
unmistakably Michael mAh. The real Raymond Garry 4 stars
says I want to lick Will Graham up and down.
Drooling emoji. There ain't no way Hannibal
didn't be like Dang I want to eat that man.
Why did they redo that movie shot for shot when this one
delivers pretty well? Says horror Poppins for the
four-star review. April in condenser gives 4 stars
and says made a girl come while watching this.
Good drills with that clutter. The four stars says hunt more,
but just hunt more. No, no further guidance to us.
Just hunt more. Four stars from Jabui.
It's called Manhunter because the manhunt the man Michael the
manhunter man the hunt 4 1/2. Now you're telling me a guy with
a house like that gets no bitches?
Multiple question Marks and exclamation box at the end of
that review in five stars. Happy 2026.
I wish it was 1986. The most 80s movie ever.
There's a moment where a treat us and crashes through a window
in slow motion. The 80s dad rock and it's maybe
the most beautiful series of images ever put to the screen.
The vibes are slightly are simply unmatched and blue is
never blued so blue. This is aged in all the right
ways, says George Webster with a 5 star someone named Stone
Medigal says basically the most underrated thriller of all time
And and just really great take. I will I'm not going to read the
whole review because it's like a really long one from someone
called American friend who who's generally written a good review
here. But if real and yeah, Brian
Cox's Lecter is such a different animal than the Lecter Anthony
Hopkins made so famous. You feel like Cox was a working
class genius who was intellect came with the weight of
insanity, A gormand who worked his way through school as a lion
kook. I like that.
I like that bit of head count and someone's done that.
It's kind of fucking cool. So yeah, there you go, the fans.
The fans love the film and hate the film in equal equal amounts.
Polarising, yeah. Polarising.
Deeply polarising. It's this movie.
CIA pro auntie. Unclear, I'd say I I generally
say this movie is not Auntie having access to various swaths
of people's data to catch people.
Yeah, I'd say it makes the FBI at least look very competent.
But not in a kind of heroic fashion, just in the these
these, these are good skilled technicians who know how to do a
job that involves the apprehension of criminals in the
prevention of further crime. So I think this is possibly a
very neutral film towards federal government agencies in
so far as it shows the FBI is being good at the job.
It doesn't lionise them maybe in a way that The Silence of the
Lambs does. It certainly it certainly
portrays the the feds more heroically than there's still.
If anything, most fatal sacrifice in this film comes
from local law enforcement. Yeah, that's true.
Oh, OK. So we're going to call that a
inconclusive, I'd say inconclusive.
Yeah, right. So we're still eight to three
against the minute with everyone else being inconclusive.
Out of all the films expected to be marked as largely centrist,
it wouldn't be a Michael Mann film.
Yeah. There you go.
We'll see how that plays out. I guess next January with
Michael Mann. Cool final category.
Then guys, the Ding Chavez Award for missed opportunity of the
movie. What do you guys got for me?
I'll let you guys go first for this one.
Because I've got it fun, yeah. Well, it's not, it's not really
a missed opportunity. I was a bit surprised by by the
way they took on the the kidnapping and subsequent
killing of that reporter, which it was tied to a chair.
And I sort of expected that scene to become very
uncomfortable immediately after that recording.
But then it was just a cat. And I was like, OK, what
happened? I guess we will never know.
And then he's just burning in a wheelchair.
And that was while it's not a good way to go, that was way
less graphic than I had somehow anticipated.
The whole film is less graphic than you.
Yeah. You hear a lot about these
horrible things that happened. You don't see any of them.
And I don't know if that's a deliberate choice by the film
makers to turn it down or to have it be more haunting because
we're thinking about it more than we're seeing it.
But there's a lot of there's a lot of telling and not showing.
I don't know why I see it all. Yeah, I I certainly don't, but
it's caught me as a surprise. One of the most graphic things
to me in the film. It's probably not what you think
and actually, but hear me out. It's that very kind, like
psychedelic kind of scene when you've seen the woman and like,
her eyes are just like absent and glowing and stuff.
And it's like, because, you know, that's like within the
killer's mind, that's what he's putting over something really,
really fucking horrible. Yeah.
You know, like, that's one of the kind of, it isn't graphic
graphic, but it kind of gets under your skin because, you
know, that what you're seeing is how the killer, whether it be
through hallucinations, because I think the film does, like,
suggest that he's schizophrenic or whether it's just his mental
way of coping with it. Is that like, he's projecting
this over his actual experience of just doing something really
fucking awful to this woman's dead body?
Yeah. As far as missed opportunities
for me, much like Collateral, some Michael Mann film, but
doesn't really seem to leave you thinking what else could it have
fitted in and still worked well. So I'm going to go down just the
kind of light hearted way and say this film needed more close
up and film needed in general. Michael Mann precise close up
footage of turtles being hatched because after all, Will Graham's
got a little turtle hatchery and at the end of the film he does
seem most of them made it so. And I know that's that's that's
like, you know, a metaphor for saving people, but not everyone
gets saved. I know right as who you subtext
in the role cowards. But but yeah, it would nice to
see some like Michael Mann, Michael Mann animal footage and
Michael Mann wildlife documentary just snuck in there.
Beautiful. I love it.
Yeah. Yeah.
Cool. My only miss opportunity, I
think, and I mentioned it earlier on, is I think Reba
McClain, June, June Allen's character could have had a
little bit more, just a little bit more coverage, just we
understand her a little bit more.
I think she was a bit sidelined. Yeah, definitely.
But yeah, cool, right, Wow, that brings that draws Michael Manuri
to an end and also this edition of clear and present dudes.
So next we have the sum of all fears.
We're getting back on the Saint Tom of Clancy bus and we're
going to go and see a nuclear weapon be just.
Well, that's not spoiled, but we haven't seen some of our fears
in 2002. But wow, what a film dropped in
a dropped in a mad time. Yeah, cool.
I've been Mike. I've been joined by Rory
O'sulle. He's waves.
Yeah, you know, yes. It's not a teams meeting Rory,
it's a podcast. Yes, hi.
It's been great once again joining my 2 incredibly,
incredibly good friends here, Megan, Sonia talking about this
amazing film, but so nice to have the team back together with
Sonia. Sonia back online.
It's been an absolute pleasure. And Sonya.
Who once again apologises for making a mess of his personal
schedule the last time and going entirely and unexplainably
absent without leave. I don't know what was getting
into my head there. I'll make sure to be around the
next time as well. I'm.
Good. I've said that now.
Now I have set myself up for failure.
No, thank you all for for joining in and thanks for having
me back guys. Excellent.
OK, cool. You're.
Part of the team man. We would never not have your
back, buddy. Brilliant.
Thank you everybody for listening.
Please remember to like and subscribe and comments and to
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And all I have to say is that, gentlemen, we have been.
Clear and present, dudes.