What's up everybody? Mark Manson here, and I'm here
in New York City in a podcast studio that I rented.
As some of you remember, a couple months ago, I did AQ and
a episode. I asked you guys all bunch of
questions. I got like 1200 questions sent
in and I think on that episode I maybe answered 50.
So for this bonus episode, I'm going to be attacking a bunch of
those other questions, bunch of the questions that I didn't get
to, but we're still really interesting and good and
hopefully I have decent answers too.
So without further ado, let's jump into it.
Hey Mark, love your work. Is there anything that you've
changed your mind about lately? And if yes, why?
I love this question. I feel like more public
intellectuals, public figures should be asked this question
more frequently. And this is something that I try
to keep tabs on myself and, and be honest with the audience
about things that I've changed my mind about recently.
I would say the biggest thing is this idea, It's come up in a
number of podcast episodes called the prevalence Inflation
hypothesis. It's basically this idea that
the more you talk about mental health issues, people can kind
of quietly talk themselves into having mental health issues.
I think this is a something that for me is very feels intuitively
correct and I think it explains a little bit of the paradox in
the mental health data that's been going on over the last 10
years or so. We are more aware of mental
health issues than ever before. It is less stigmatized than ever
before to talk about mental health issues than ever before.
Yet mental health data is just fucking terrible at the moment
and it keeps getting worse. And so that apparent paradox, I
think would partially be explained by the fact that
there's probably a threshold where you're talking about
mental health to such an extent and making it so socially
acceptable that it actually becomes socially validating to
have mental health issues. And which you are now giving
people social incentives to identify with mental health
issues and self diagnose with mental health issues when maybe
under normal circumstances they wouldn't be there.
So I find that incredibly compelling.
As mentioned, we've had a few podcast episodes about it.
I made a YouTube video about it. I don't know where I land on it.
It's I think it's still way too early to say, but it's something
that I have been thinking about a lot.
And and you know, as somebody who has created content in the
space for 15 years now, it is forced me to rethink maybe how I
talk about certain topics or some of the advice that I might
give. Next question.
Hi, Mark, I have a question. When trying to quit an
addiction, things often go smoothly for five or six days,
but then some restlessness feeling kicks in.
Should we fight those feelings or just go back to our old
habits? Also, if I back off my old
addiction habit, when I face problems, my confidence also
goes down. Please also give me some clarity
on this. I'm guessing you've dealt with
this while fighting alcohol addiction.
Congratulations on all your success, love from India.
I actually wrote an article about quitting cigarettes that
talked about this. Look like any bad habit, whether
it's an addiction or not, any bad habit, you're going to go
through a few different phases. And I think the first five or
six days, maybe the first week, there's probably going to be a
lot of adrenaline, excitement, motivation, you know, you
finally like summoned up the courage to kick this habit, to
kick this, this addiction, like, let's fucking do this.
And that adrenaline will carry you through, you know, let's say
345 days. Once you get to like day five,
the, the pain and suffering of trying to change that habit
starts to kick in. And the fact is, is that you
haven't quit the habit long enough to experience the
benefits of quitting it yet. So there's kind of this like
dark valley that you have to go through from like say day 5 to
20 or 25 where you just have to suffer.
You have to suffer through it and you have to, to just grit
your teeth and understand that this is part of the process.
And I think just simply being aware that this is part of the
process is fundamental to being being able to get through it,
that this is temporary, that you were expecting it, you've
prepared for it, and there's going to be greater happiness
and glory on the other side. I've generally found that it it,
you know, it takes a few weeks to a month, month and a half to
start feeling the benefits of breaking any sort of bad habit
or, or addiction. And I think it's really
important to very consciously look for those benefits when
you're going through this period.
I wrote about this in the article about quitting
cigarettes is that I found it very useful to like write down
in journal everything in my life that was getting better and all
the things that I used to do that were worse.
Just to like consciously remind myself and reinforce all of the
the beneficial experiences and behaviors that I was having and
reinforce all the costs and shitty things that were going on
previously. So be prepared for that period,
that shitty period of five to 25 days or so and really, really
zero in consciously on, you know, what the benefits are.
Look for them very, like sometimes they're very subtle.
They're they're not necessarily completely related to what you
were expecting. You know, with alcohol.
I noticed that I, I just started sleeping way, way better a few
weeks in and I was like, huh, That's really, it was
unexpected. Is it overwhelming having this
many followers or subscribers? You know, Stalin once said that
the death of an individual is a tragedy, The death of a million
is a statistic. It's above a certain number.
It just becomes so abstract that you kind of lose track.
Like I don't anything over like 1000 people, it just there.
It just turns into this amorphous BLOB in your brain and
you can't really conceptualize it anymore.
What are some of your biggest regrets in life?
Would one of them have been not going on your health improvement
journey sooner :) yes. The hell thing is, honestly, I
think that's the in my adult life, that's probably the
biggest thing I think I fucked up is that I was a glutton for
particularly my 20s. I was a little bit of a glutton
for self destruction. You know, I, I came from a
generation that that sort of behavior was kind of cool.
Like it was, it was exciting, it was thrilling.
In hindsight, it just seems kind of dumb.
I think some of that is age, but also I think some of that is
it's just the cultural moment and, and the time period that we
live in. In hindsight, I, I really
underestimated the benefits of my getting your physical health
in order for way too long. I, I feel kind of dumb, you
know, being in this industry for over 15 years and really not
getting my head around like the basic physical stuff until like
year 13. It just seems like a pretty
stupid oversight on my part. But honestly, like when I look
back at my life, like I, I don't really like the regret question.
It's hard because business or professional related regrets,
it's, it's hard to have them because those failures and
mistakes are part of what get you to where you are, right?
Personal life regrets, it's a little bit more complicated.
I mean, there's still a little bit of the same factor of it's,
it helps make me who I am. Honestly the only things I
really regret are some of the ways I treat people when I was
younger. Like they're not many things in
my life that if I could go back and change I would.
But I don't know. When I was in my 20s I was drunk
a lot and was kind of a Dick to some people and who didn't
deserve it. So shout out to the people I was
a Dick to who didn't deserve it. I'm sorry.
Hey Mark, with all the recent press on belief and expectation
effects, your recent book summary video has at least
three. Would you consider adding a
concept of positive and optimistic beliefs to one of
your cheat codes for life? Also, do you feel like some of
the benefits or belief effects are lost in the framing within
subtle Art? By this I mean that perhaps
focusing on the negative rather than the positive can still lead
to detrimental effects. Perhaps some added nuance would
be required for each individual to more intentionally decide on
the particulars of their beliefs on a more case by case basis.
Circling back on one of the core principles of Subtle art, that
we always are responsible for our experiences.
God damn that is a word salad my friend.
OK, let me try to like edit this down in my brain into like a
single sentence. Basically from what I'm hearing
here. I've had a number of a bunch of
content recently that has talked about the psychological benefits
of having positive expectations or optimistic expectations for
things that you are doing or things that you are doing in the
future. And he is saying that, you know,
so much of my past work or my books in particular are focused
on considering the negative side of things that if there's not a
contradiction there, that may be, may be positive thinking
really does have its uses. And I should stop being so hard
on it and stop being such a miserable prick.
So, OK, here's the thing, right? I think being optimistic is good
and healthy. And we should all be optimist.
Like we should all assume the best of our motivations and
intentions and the things that we're trying to do.
My point and subtle art is that when thinking about a pursuit or
goal, we tend to only think about the benefits and all the
things that are going to go well.
We don't think about the setbacks, the cost, the
sacrifices or the failures, right?
So I could easily sit here and be like, I want to get my
channel to 10 million subscribers and I could have a
very positive and optimistic outlook of like believing I'm
going to get there, imagining myself there, like, you know,
envisioning doing affirmations, all that shit.
And sure, that's helpful to a certain extent.
The catch is, is that I need to be realistic about what that
process looks like. Like it's not enough to for me
to just sit here and kind of blindly be like, I want to have
two million subscribers. I want to have two million
subscribers. What I have to do is I have to
think about how hard it's going to be, the mistakes that I'm
going to make, the errors that can be expected, the sacrifices,
like what am I going to give up if I grow my audience to that
extent, right? Like I'm going to give up some
privacy. I'm going to, there's going to
be more pressure for anything that I make.
I'm going to have to be way more conscientious of the different
demographics of groups that are going to watch the content and
who I might be upsetting or who I might be appealing to.
I'm going to have to expand my team and music.
That means I'm going to have to hire more people.
It means I'm going to have to spend more money.
So like, it's great to be positive, but you also want to
think of the cost, the sacrifices, the downsides, not
because it's like that's it's lame to be positive.
It's just like you have to be realistic.
Like be optimistic, awesome, but also be realistic.
Hey Mark, congratulations on all of your success.
What is your opinion on the effects of parental emotional
immaturity on us? I think they can be absolutely
massive. Look, it's not just because of
childhood trauma or whatever. It's because the fundamental way
that people, humans in general, the way that we learn is that we
model people who are better at things than we are.
And when your child, most of what you model comes from the
parents or the adult caretakers around you.
And so if you have parents who are at the emotional maturity of
a 7 year old, then you are not going to have anything the model
past the age of seven that's going to benefit you.
It's basically they're going to set the ceiling for you until
you you actually get out on your own and start actively working
on it yourself. So I think sometimes the the
trauma narrative gets exaggerated a little bit when it
comes to parenting. I think people tend to just
simply underrate that. Like if you grow up with a
parent who has really bad communication skills, you're
probably going to end up with bad communication skills because
most things that you learn when you're young, you learn from
your parents. What's one thing about
relationship advice that you have changed your mind on in
recent times? Much thanks.
I don't know if I've changed my mind about a single thing.
I will say two things come to mind with this question.
Number one, marriage is underrated and like needs a new
publicist. Like, I don't know, it just, you
know, the, the people who are advocating marriage and, and
long term stable relationships, they tend to be like very
religious people or traditional old fashioned people.
I just think the, the, the psychological health, the
benefits, the stability, the, the clear advantages that it
gives you in life are, are just under reported and under
discussed. And I've talked about why
marriage is great plenty of times on this podcast and on the
YouTube channel. So that shouldn't surprise
anybody, but yeah, I get on my soapbox for marriage, especially
because I felt like I, I didn't see the value in it for a very,
very long time, basically until I got married.
So the second thing that comes to mind is I, I really do think
just dating culture in general is getting worse.
And I think a lot of it is being driven by apps, apps and social
media in general. And I think the primary reason
is that they, they filter for the wrong things.
So technology is very good at filtering for surface level
superficial traits, characteristics and qualities
that they actually don't matter a whole lot in terms of
relationship quality. And I think if you pay too much
attention to them that they can be a distraction from the things
that actually contribute to relationship quality.
I think the other issue that they causes is it they generate
a paradox of choice in people, right?
So it creates an illusion that you have way more opportunities
than maybe you actually do or that you there are way, way, way
more people that could potentially be good partners for
you than there actually are. So things are very messy right
now. Oh, last thing too, I think
there's for whatever reason, I don't know why this is, but I, I
do think people are approaching dating much more with a me first
attitude. And I think, well, I think maybe
this came from like a good intention, which is, you know,
most people who struggle in their relationships, it's
because they, they never put themselves first.
They, they are like constantly giving themselves over to, to
whoever is in front of them. And so most dating advice really
pushes this me, me first mentality.
You know, if, if you're approaching dating solely in
terms of what you get out of it and not what you can give,
you're going to have a bad time. Hey, Mark, would you change
anything about your books at all?
So it's been a few years since I've read them, but I get asked
this a lot about subtle art in particular, especially as the
years go on. I I don't think I would change
any of the ideas. You know, the the movie came out
in 22 two years ago. I remember having a little bit
of anxiety of like, oh man, what if this thing comes out and I
like don't stand by one of the ideas anymore.
I can't think of anything in that book that I don't still
stand by what I do look back on it and maybe regret or would
change. I I just think a lot of the
concepts in there could have been written better or explained
better. There's there's just a number of
sections in that book that I'm like, you know, if I wrote that
today, I think I would have done a better job.
I also like I was AI wasn't as good of a researcher back then.
So some of the studies that I referenced or mentioned, I know
now are not great studies. So that's another little nitpick
as far as everything is fucked. I, I honestly, I wish I had an
extra few months to work on that.
To be honest. I think it was a little bit
hairy and bloated. I think it it could have been
polished a little bit more, but I think I stand by everything in
it. I I don't know, I do.
I do think maybe the the initial thesis in chapter one was maybe
a little bit overstated, but who knows.
From the bottom of your heart, do you still want to be a rock
star? And if no, how do you manage to
let go of a dream once it makes your life worth living?
From the bottom of my heart, I don't want to be a rock star.
So here's the thing, your old dreams will die when you're
happy. I know that sounds really trite,
but it's true. I've lost all interest in in any
sort of music for probably 5 or 10 years now and I honestly
think it's just because I'm very happy with where I am in life.
And and whatever the the itch that music was scratching, I
found other things in my life that scratch it sufficiently.
So whatever needs it was fulfilling it.
They aren't unfulfilled anymore. Fake it till you make it.
Yay or nay? Which Mark Manson ego state is
your favorite? All of them.
Every Mark Manson state is fucking phenomenal.
Consider the strong philosophical and psychological
arguments against the existence of free will.
How do you suggest applying practical how to advice to life
when everything might already be predestined?
Well, if everything's predestined, what's wrong with
the illusion that you're following how to life advice?
I don't know, like the free will thing, I just I really struggled
to give a shit about because even if it is true that we don't
have free will, which there's a very good chance it is true, who
cares? Like we all experience life as
though we have free will and a huge amount of our psychological
well-being and happiness is dependent on the perception that
we have free will and agency. So yeah, what's what's the big
deal? I don't, I don't get it.
What do you think about David Goggins?
Do you agree? Disagree or both with the points
in his book. For the record, I fucking love
David Goggins and David, if you ever want to come on the show, I
would be honored. I treat David as like a spirit
animal. So I don't totally get his
frameworks. Like I don't.
He's got this whole thing about taking souls and carrying the
boats. I'm like, whatever, man.
I just fucking love this dude. I love his energy.
I love his his like his intensity.
I just love how indestructible he seems.
I'm just happy he exists. So I didn't engage super
intellectually with his his frameworks and ideas.
I just think he's awesome. Stay hard, motherfucker.
Question. Once you've obtained a certain
level of financial freedom, how do you best go about measuring
or quantifying success? This is the $1,000,000 question,
no pun intended. It's funny, this is the the
obnoxious question. If you meet anybody who's just
had a really successful startup exit or windfall lottery winner,
I don't know, Bitcoin investor, this is like the existential
question that that people who really hit the financial lottery
always struggle with, which is like, I hit my number.
I don't have to work anymore. Now what?
Why do anything? What's the point?
You know, you can only go to so many parties and beaches before
it gets old. You can only buy so much shit
before it gets old. You actually you, This is a
pretty common thing if you hang out with wealthy people.
Like everybody kind of goes through this moment of like,
what success? How do I measure success?
You can continue to measure it by money if you want.
You know, if you got 10 million, you want to go for 100 million.
But that's kind of a shitty way to.
Live your life. Money is a useful metric when
you don't have any. It's a really bad metric when
you have a bunch of it. So it, there's a very difficult
process of like choosing how you're going to measure your
life once you've achieved financial, financial freedom.
And I, I think it's a very personal process.
I don't think anybody can answer that for you.
For some people it's philanthropic, for some people
it's it's building something interesting, creating something.
For some people it's family, helping people, you know,
whatever it is you, you kind of have to figure it out for
yourself. I'm in my last year of school
and I don't know if I should go to college or find a way to make
money at home. Me neither dude.
I have a question. Why the hair?
Look, man, when you're in your 40s and you've got hair like
this, you got to flaunt it. You can't sit on it anymore.
You can't hide it, no hats. You just got to let it.
You got to let it loose. And it's funny because I get a
lot of comments on YouTube and it's funny be like a lot of guys
shitting on my hair, telling me to get a haircut.
And it it's when I look at them, it's always like young guys.
It's like 1820 year old guys and yeah, man, yeah.
Look, give it 20 years. You know, you when you start
that, you get that the hairline starts receding.
You start you, you wake up one morning, you look in the mirror,
you see your dad. It's coming for you.
It's OK.
It's it's, it's a premature hair envy.
I'm willing to accept it. I'm willing to roll with it.
It's the first year since my youngest brother's passing.
We lost him due to depression and addiction.
What are ways to handle the grief of losing a loved one like
that, specifically for someone who is not religious?
Thank you. First of all, I'm really sorry
about your brother, man. The 1st and most important thing
is, is really stay close and connected with the other family
and loved ones of the person. I think it's, there's a real
support network that has to emerge, you know, with your
parents, with any other siblings you might have cousins, spouses,
brothers, friends, whatever. Because those are the people
that are feeling what you're feeling.
And those are the people who are who also need the process and
and you can help each other process by being together.
The second thing I would say is honor the memories and emotions
when they arise. So when you think about your
brother and you think about who he is or who he was, try to
think about like what he would wish for you or what the best
version of him would wish for you and would wish for for your
memory of him. And then try to act on those
best impulses. On a more practical level, I
would say try to find something to do everyday, something
physical, something that keeps you moving, you know, try to get
outside, try to try to just get your mind focused on something
productive, building something. And and then, yeah, I would say
to like, you know, be wary of numbing or distracting yourself.
I know it's easy to say, it's like that's much easier said
than done, but it's in moments like these that there's a, a
strong impulse to just bury the emotions in something and, and
you know, try not to indulge that as much as possible.
Oh my God, are you serious? What do you think about the
universe? Come on, man, who created it?
And why the hell do we need to go through all the pain and
happiness that we do in life? Why does it exist?
Are you seriously asking me this?
Oh man, I'm a shithead author. I'm not a prophet.
All right, look, it's really simple actually.
So the miracle of existence is perpetuated through an infinite
process of replication and variation, right?
So in the beginning of time there was a bunch of stuff and
that stuff happened to collide and slowly self organized based
on the the fundamentals of physics.
And some of that self organization ended up in what we
now know as molecules. And over the course of billions
and billions of years these molecules, something very
special happened, which is that a certain molecule developed the
ability to replicate itself. Now this self replication is the
the genesis of life and that replication introduce something
else to the universe, which was scarcity, right?
Because if you need other material to replicate, then
there is a finite amount of material.
And so now there's competition through self replicating
molecules for all the resources around them to see who can
replicate the most. Now through all these
replications in the mutations that inevitably came from them,
these replicators developed different traits, different
characteristics. Some of them developed outer
shells to help them protect themselves.
Others developed ways to attack other replicator molecules.
And slowly, over the course of billions of years, this arms
race of mutation and variation emerged into a panoply of
hundreds of millions of organisms that coexisted and
competed for a finite amount of resources within a limited
system. Now, one of the feedback systems
within these replicators was something that is now known as
the limbic system in mammals. And this limbic system caused
mammals to experience a combination of physical and
mental associations with sensation that roughly equated
to happiness and suffering once language was later invented.
Now these ideas of happiness and suffering are merely part of an
infinite energetic interchange happening across the universe
since the initiation of time. And it's a mere extension and
continuation of the endless dance of being, a dance that has
been since existence was even before existence.
Now every petty nuisance, every achievement or disappointment is
simply your replicator driven feedback mechanism lightly
nudging you towards actions and behaviors that will keep this
cosmic dance of complexity and infinite expression going in
higher and more complex forms. Forms that are limbic systems
interpret as boundless love. So dance in the light.
You are the child of stars. Your pains are nature's art.
Your joys are the universe's music.
Get the fuck over yourself dude. How important do you think it is
for a man to go through multiple sexual experiences before
settling down? This is what drives me crazy
about these men's communities. And this stuff went on when I
was young too, like when I was in the pick up stuff.
Like guys like they'll have an insecurity, like a sexual or
romantic insecurity, which will cause them to be fixated on
something. And then they just assume that
every other male on the planet is fixated on the same thing.
Like dude, there are guys who go through their lives never
thinking about sex. There are guys who obsess over
sex. There are there are people who
obsess over romance. There are people who obsess over
monogamy. Like it's you can obsess over
whatever you want. There's no like the only
constant thread in human sexuality is a diversity of
human sexuality. Like there is nothing that
everybody wants all the time. And so when I get questions like
this, I I'm like, I don't know, dude, how many do you want?
How many is enough? For some guys, that's one.
For some guys, that's 1000. Like there are pros and cons to
both, so pick your poison. How do you know if you were
ready for a serious relationship and marriage?
All right, this is a little more practical.
The simple answer is when the idea of dating and screwing
around more feels more draining to you than invigorating.
So dating can be fun. It can also be a bag of ass.
And if it is consistently feeling like a bag of ass, then
you're probably looking for something a little bit more
stable and long term. Now, I do think there's a little
bit more choice in this than people realize.
Like I think a lot of people I run into both men and women who
think that like there's going to be some magical moment where
they're like, OK, now I'm ready. And the truth is, it's kind of
like having kids. Like you're never ready to have
kids. You kind of just have them and
figure it out as you go. The same is true with commitment
and relationships. You're never ready for
commitment. You just commit and then figure
it out afterwards. So if you're sick of dating, if
you're looking for something a little bit more meaningful and
stable in your life, and you meet somebody who's great and
you really enjoy being around them, just go for it and then
figure it out afterwards. How do I play the long term game
in life? But here's one way to do it.
So pretend there's a version of you 10 years in the future and
pretend this person, this 10 year future version of you is
like your best friend. It's like imagine, imagine he's
sitting next to you and try to think about what he looks like,
how he dresses, what his job is. Imagine he's a real person now
as you go through your life, think about how your actions
affect him and always try to do what's in his best interest
because he's your best friend and you really, really like him.
Try that. What life advice would you give
to teenagers? The big one is more face to face
socialization. I'm not convinced that screens
are as that bad. I think, I think the the harms
of screens and social media are in aggregate, maybe a little bit
overblown. But I do think it's face to face
socializing is hugely important. And I think it's, let me put it
this way, I think what often gets blamed on social media is
actually just the lack of face to face interaction.
I think when you look at countries where people are still
engaging face to face in their communities, quite often you
don't see the mental health issues around social media.
It's only when you look at countries where people are not
socializing face to face that you start to see the strong
correlation between social media and and mental health issues.
How do you deal with adversity and develop emotional
resilience? And how do you deal with the
constant setbacks and just feel like giving up?
Like I want to try something new and it keeps failing and I don't
know what to do. I want to do it and that's why I
keep persisting even though it's supposed to be hard.
Still feels demotivating because I've not seen positive results.
Well, first of all, you kind of answered your own question.
Well, there's two questions here.
So the first one is how do you deal with adversity and develop
emotional resilience? And then you go on to describe
how you're working on something that you're seeing no positive
results and it sucks and you want to give up, but you keep
doing it. So you just answer.
Your first question is it's not a secret.
Resilience, like many things comes from practice.
Your second question, though, is like, how do you know when to
to? I like, I think this question
around persistence is actually a very, very interesting question.
Like it's very easy. It would be very easy for me to
get on here and just be like, never give up, bro.
Like follow your dreams. But the truth is, is that it's
actually knowing when to give up is a really important life
skill. And I think sometimes it's, it's
it is very difficult to know when for me and my own
experience, like, look, everything is supposed to be
hard. The things that you're going to
be great AT and are going to work out, they're going to be
hard. And the things that you're going
to fail at and aren't going to work out, they're also going to
be hard. So the question is, how do you
tell the difference between successful hard and failure
hard? How do you tell the difference
between hard that it's worth still going and hard that it's
you should probably give up? The best heuristic that I've
found is that I have found that the things in my life that have
been difficult, but it's been worth continuing.
There has been some sense of acceleration in that.
What I mean by that is that it's hard.
The failure sucks. I get demotivated, I want to
give up. But the more time I put into it,
slowly but surely, the easier it gets.
The more progress I see, the more time I put into it.
When I look at all the things in my life that were extremely hard
and I gave up or I probably should, should have given up,
It's the things that were hard and I keep trying and I keep
pushing and it's not getting easier or there's not a clear
sense of progress. It's always going to be hard.
That's a given. But what is the trajectory of
the difficulty is are you getting better?
Are you seeing yourself improve? Are you seeing more progress?
Is that progress accelerating or does it just feel like you're
bashing your head against the wall?
If it feels like you're bashing your head against the wall, then
after a certain amount of time you should probably stop.
How do you feel good about being happy when you know it causes
jealousy or hurt to someone else?
Look man, if your happiness makes somebody else upset, you
should probably not spend time around that person point blank.
You should surround yourself with people who are happy for
your happiness. How do I perform brilliantly
every single day? You can't dude.
You'll always like you can't. You're always going to have bad
days. You just do your best with what
you've got for any given day. Hey Mark, your articles and
podcasts have helped me through a divorce.
But how do you move on from a 24 year relationship without
constantly revisiting the past and wondering if it was better
than a future with no clear direction?
All right, quick public service announcement.
If you're in a relationship for 24 years, you're not going to
get over that shit anytime soon. Anytime soon.
Like it's going to be multiple years, many, many years before
you like, get over it, right? And if you've only been single
for a couple weeks, yeah, you shouldn't be expecting to to be
over this. I mean, it.
Look, it's a really scary thing coming out of any relationship
for that period of time. It's a very, very scary thing
coming out of it. You should be uncertain about
the future. You should be worried about it.
And yes, you are going to mentally revisit the past over
and over again. So I would not resist any of
these thoughts or feelings. I would actually dig into them,
preferably with the help of a therapist and just really take
your time. Like it's 24 years is a lot.
That's a huge percentage of your life, no matter how old you are.
And it's, it's going to take a lot to process that.
So be patient. That's my advice.
Why do you take sponsorships from Better Help?
Are you aware of the issues around them and how problematic
they are? OK, I'm glad this was asked
because yes, I'm aware of the issues around them and I
disagree that they're problematic.
I've seen the expose YouTube videos, I've googled and looked
up the FTC fines around them. Guys, this is a meme.
This is a YouTube like you got duped.
Some clever 20 year old Youtubers like did like cool
expose videos. They have no idea what they're
talking about. Look, it's really simple.
First of all, the service has thousands and thousands of
therapists, so of course some are going to be bad.
That's to be expected. The same way there's add Uber
drivers, there's bad DoorDash delivery guys, there's bad
plumbers. Like whatever any profession,
you're going to have some bad ones.
That's not their fault. The FTC fine for sharing data.
So I actually went and read the FTC fine itself.
Two things stood out. One was it was it was because
they were using e-mail addresses to retarget Facebook ads.
Sharing data sounds really, really bad.
But if, as somebody who's used Facebook retargeting in my own
business, this is like the lightest form of data sharing
that is even possible. And this is reflected in the
actual fine itself. The actual fine itself was for
something like $10 million. And this is like a $2 billion
company. And generally, FTC fines are
proportional to the stakes of the infraction.
So that tells you right there that this was like a very minor
thing. On top of all that, better helps
instituted all sorts of changes into their service to, to
account for this. So everybody and everybody in
the company is now trained how to protect users data, how to
make sure it's not shared. So this is a nothing burger.
And I, I, I find it amusing that so many people on YouTube are
like getting all morally righteous about it, like posting
comments and uploading comments and like, oh, oh, better helps
terrible. Like, do you realize that 40% of
Americans don't have access to a therapist?
40% they don't live anywhere near a therapist.
They, they literally cannot physically go to a therapist.
So like let's let's weigh some some things here like giving 40%
of the country access to mental health care or getting upset
over some Facebook retargeting ads.
Like grow up guys, get your shit together.
Stop believing everything you see in stupid YouTube videos,
especially from like a 20 year old who's not a lawyer.
Do your own research. Have you ever tried meditation?
Why or why not? I've meditated for hundreds,
maybe thousands of hours. I was actually very very into
Buddhism and Eastern spirituality in my late teens
and early 20s. I practiced Zen or Zazen for
many years, especially when I lived in Boston.
It's been, it was a huge part of my life, very impactful,
influential. I'm a big fan of meditation.
I think it's a great tool for people.
I've written about it many, many times.
I've talked about it on the podcast many, many times.
So big ups on meditation. I think everybody should at
least try it. I think the vast majority of
people will find it useful and helpful.
And if you don't, then that's fine too.
Have you ever practiced Christianity?
I was born and raised in a religious family, so I grew up
in the church. I grew up in the Bible Belt.
I grew up in Texas, man. So yeah, I'm up with Jesus.
I know how it is. What's the best advice you ever
got about starting your own business or about money in
general? Best advice I ever got was from
my dad. I remember when I started, like
way back when I first started, a much larger competitor of mine
basically stole an idea and made a bunch of money with it because
he had better distribution and a larger audience and more access
to people within the industry. And I got really, really upset.
I actually thought about quitting.
And I remember talking to my dad and he told me, he said, you
know, there are two ways to get rich in this world.
One is to try to collect as many golden eggs as you possibly can.
The other is to learn how to be the goose that lays the golden
egg. And he said if you learn how to
be the goose that lays the golden egg, you'll never worry
too much if people come and steal one.
And that really landed pretty hard for me and I stuck with it
and to this day my should have stolen all the fucking time.
And it doesn't matter, because I am the goose.
I am the goose. What do you think about hustle
culture? I know a few people are grinding
day and night, and I know a few who are basically doing nothing
in life. How do you address this?
And please don't just say that it's a paradox.
Well, OK, so it's a paradox. You see, it's the hustle
paradox. Let's get like some sound
effects, like a big title screen.
The hustle paradox. No, it's not a paradox.
So I feel like hustling or grinding, like it's a skill,
it's a useful skill. It's not a way of life because
it's not sustainable in the long run.
But it, it is an important skill and it's something that I think
most people, you don't really learn your capacity for it until
you do it a few times. So I think it's, it's an
incredibly useful thing for people to do just to find your
own personal capacity for work, like see what your own limits
are. And then once you know what
those limits are, you can consciously know when to flip
the switch on and off. You know, when I was in college,
I would stay up all night studying for an exam or finish a
paper or something. And like, I thought that was
working hard, right? I thought that was grinding.
But it's when I started my first business, it was 14 to 16 hour
days every day, seven days a week for multiple months in a
row. And it just, it hit a level that
I didn't even know existed. And obviously I, it was super
unhealthy. I got burnt out, all those
things. But like once that once I did it
once, I always knew it was there.
And so there are probably been four or five other times
throughout my career where I'm like, oh, it's one of those
moments and I can flip the switch and I can just go for it.
And it's like, OK, these next three months I need to go hard.
And it's just, it's important to know that that you have that
capacity and, you know, you can tap into it when necessary.
Hey, Mark, my question is, when did you realize that you were
truly happy and satisfied? And what are the things that
affected that the most? You know, ironically, it's
probably the times that I'm not thinking about how happy I am
that I'm the happiest. So yeah, I don't really think
about that a whole lot. What would you advise to a 24
year old who doesn't like to be with people?
Good for you man. People suck.
It's OK to be a bit of a loner. It's OK to be an introvert.
There are actually a lot of advantages to it.
I do think it is important to develop the social skills and
the social capacity to be able to be around people when
necessary. Like there are going to be times
in your life where you want to do things with other people or
where you need to be around other people to accomplish a
goal or something that you want. So as long as you are capable of
being around people when necessary, then yeah.
Dude, fucking do your thing. In your last interview you spoke
about how you got on ADHD medication, but a teacher pulled
you aside and convinced you that it was best to learn to manage
and live with it without medication.
What advice for living with ADHD would you broadly give people in
a similar situation? And what advice would you give
your younger self that works uniquely for you?
This is a great question. So the most effective things for
me personally, there are three things that come to mind.
The first one is just caffeine. Caffeine to me it's like a lot.
A large amount of caffeine accomplishes a maybe 20 to 30%
of what an ADHD medication will accomplish without any of the
side effects. So to me, hence I've, I've
experimented with going caffeine free, but I mean, life was not
worth living. So I'm a big caffeine fiend.
That's the first one. And I don't mean I'm a caffeine
fiend and like, Oh my God, I love coffee.
It's no, it's like my brain works better with caffeine.
I focus better, I'm more organized, I'm more thoughtful.
I remember things better. So caffeine's a big one.
Second one is meditation. You know, earlier somebody asked
me about meditation. One of the, one of the biggest
benefits of meditation is that it, it really helped manage the
ADHD symptoms. I was able to focus more.
I had a longer attention span, I was more patient.
So yeah, I found meditation really useful.
So the the third thing is kind of weird and it took me a long
time to figure out, but it, it's funny because I've talked to
other people with ADHD who have the same thing and that is do
two things simultaneously. And that's like sounds weird,
but if something's like a really intense creative or problem
solving activity like programming or writing or, you
know, whatever it, it, yeah, just focus on that one thing.
But it, it's the lighter act that the, the activities that
require less of a mental load, like sitting in a lecturer in
college or sitting in a meeting like a zoom meeting with six
different people or answering emails.
I actually find it it's I'm much better at staying on track if I
am switching between too low mental load things back and
forth. So this is going to sound
insane, but I used to sleep through all my college lectures
until I start bringing Sudoku's and crosswords.
As soon as I brought Sudoku's and crosswords, I'd stay awake
for the whole thing. I take notes to the whole thing.
It was no problem, I would just jump back and forth.
As soon as my brain got bored of the lecture I jump over to the
crossword and then as soon as I got stuck on the crossword I
jump back to the lecture. If you don't have ADHD that's
going to sound ridiculous, but it worked for me.
I've since found that I apply the same thing in my business if
I have two low cognitive load things.
Like let's say I need to catch up on emails and I need to offer
notes on social media posts, both of those within like 3
minutes, my brains going to get bored and I'm going to start to
wander and I'm going to start watching YouTube videos or
something. But I've noticed if I pair those
two things together. So I do answer emails until my
brain gets bored and then I jump over to the social media content
and do that till it gets bored. Then I jump back to emails.
What it does is it it keeps the novelty high at all times.
And that really is at least my form of ADHD.
Like, that is really what I crave constantly.
It's just novelty. It's just like things need to
feel new all the time. Oh, last thing, loud music.
Loud music's great, man. It's a that's another ADHD
thing. It's just like fucking blasting
some house music or heavy metal. All right.
Hey, Mark, what do you have to say about the people who call
you the edge Lord? I say my name is Marcus Maximus
Manson is edge Lord to the armies of the North, douche bag
of the Felix legions, loyal soy boy to the true emperor Marcus
Aurelius, bro to a murdered son, simp to a murdered wife, and I
will have my vengeance in this podcast or in the next.