1 00:00:00,420 --> 00:00:03,940 It's concrete. It's poured concrete lined up. 2 00:00:03,950 --> 00:00:06,150 They found wood. It's concrete. 3 00:00:06,220 --> 00:00:08,210 It's warm. It's concrete. 4 00:00:08,220 --> 00:00:10,230 I understand. It's amazing. 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,580 They climbed on the outside. They are the most resilient. 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:16,940 Like they're better than rats. You know? 7 00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:21,350 We're talking my editor, Pakistan, What's up? 8 00:00:22,050 --> 00:00:24,210 We're talking about how much they suck. 9 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,190 But I'm gonna get started, Jan. I'm gonna start at one point. 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,790 I'm gonna pause, and then we'll start again. 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,460 OK, so ready, So 321, welcome to issue for construction. 12 00:00:35,470 --> 00:00:37,170 I'm your host, Jonathan Jacobs. Today I've got with me a 13 00:00:37,180 --> 00:00:40,760 gentleman. I was introduced to you through 14 00:00:40,770 --> 00:00:42,800 another guy that we both know. His name is Randy Gladman. 15 00:00:42,810 --> 00:00:46,550 Randy is a great, great man. Randy, if you're listening to 16 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,260 this as the first time you ever heard me say that. 17 00:00:49,750 --> 00:00:52,620 I was chirping him on LinkedIn the other like yesterday. 18 00:00:53,470 --> 00:00:56,410 For those that don't know, before I introduce Alex, I'm 19 00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:59,030 gonna say Randy. Randy has been doing some 20 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,200 amazing things for Canadian development. 21 00:01:02,050 --> 00:01:04,800 But outside of Randy to the man sitting across me, his name is 22 00:01:04,810 --> 00:01:10,130 Alex Josephson and he is the founder of Partisans 23 00:01:10,140 --> 00:01:14,320 Architecture. And for those that aren't aware, 24 00:01:14,330 --> 00:01:16,510 well, you can head over to the Partisan website. 25 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,000 You can see what they do. You're going to hear a whole lot 26 00:01:19,010 --> 00:01:23,010 about what what they do now and also where Alex started. 27 00:01:23,550 --> 00:01:26,230 So Alex, thanks for taking time out of your. 28 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,630 It is, I know, a very busy day that you run to do this. 29 00:01:30,370 --> 00:01:32,200 I'm just a talking head now, Jonathan. 30 00:01:32,210 --> 00:01:33,920 You know, we were doing a podcast. 31 00:01:34,650 --> 00:01:36,840 When I go, I'm not really that busy, am I? 32 00:01:38,670 --> 00:01:42,190 Thanks for having me man. There's actually a cool way of 33 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:44,190 doing this is that normally I have people over here, we have 34 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,450 lunch, but we started actually over at Alex's office and he 35 00:01:46,460 --> 00:01:49,490 turned me through the new space and it's pretty incredible. 36 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:54,370 He's got an he's got a very eclectic team that has a 37 00:01:54,460 --> 00:01:57,870 plethora of knowledge from around the world and they're 38 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:02,100 doing work all over the world. So I say that because let's go 39 00:02:02,110 --> 00:02:03,820 back to the root of where things started for you. 40 00:02:03,830 --> 00:02:05,430 Where what, what city were you born in? 41 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:11,150 And kid, were you Alex? A troubled kid from Toronto. 42 00:02:11,780 --> 00:02:16,990 I think everybody listening to your podcast has to know that 43 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,820 this is basically paradise. This what is our city? 44 00:02:21,870 --> 00:02:23,500 Ohhh. I mean, it's going through a bit 45 00:02:23,510 --> 00:02:26,130 of a. A challenging moment. 46 00:02:26,780 --> 00:02:30,130 When we were driving here, we were not describing paradise. 47 00:02:30,140 --> 00:02:31,900 No, but it is it fundamentally, yes. 48 00:02:31,910 --> 00:02:35,690 You compare Canada and the, the circumstances that you and I 49 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:38,700 grew up in, yes. And the places around the world 50 00:02:38,710 --> 00:02:40,630 that we could have been born into 100%. 51 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:45,370 It's sort of like I whenever, whenever someone especially 52 00:02:45,380 --> 00:02:47,710 podcast from around the world that I've been on now that I'm 53 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,150 having these conversations and it's really about creating 54 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,640 relationships because Canada really is quite isolated. 55 00:02:54,390 --> 00:02:58,270 I sometimes I equate it to being an island, especially since the 56 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,330 United States has sort of turned its back on our relationship. 57 00:03:01,340 --> 00:03:04,160 Yeah. But it it always was this sort 58 00:03:04,170 --> 00:03:07,840 of backyard and and. I think you feel that as a kid 59 00:03:07,850 --> 00:03:10,600 though. OHK I think that the Canadian 60 00:03:10,610 --> 00:03:13,830 condition is one of isolation and space. 61 00:03:14,050 --> 00:03:19,080 We have so much space and we're so connected to our land and at 62 00:03:19,090 --> 00:03:23,600 the same time the the, the, the riches, the bounty, the resource 63 00:03:23,650 --> 00:03:26,710 base is so. That we haven't tapped, we're 64 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,760 tapped. Believe me, we've tapped. 65 00:03:28,770 --> 00:03:31,860 We're just not. Let's, let's, let's address that 66 00:03:31,870 --> 00:03:33,980 in a bit. OK, so first you asked me where? 67 00:03:33,990 --> 00:03:36,850 I'm from. From you don't always. 68 00:03:36,860 --> 00:03:39,250 I don't know if you focus on only get people in Toronto. 69 00:03:39,260 --> 00:03:40,640 No, I talked to people from all over the. 70 00:03:40,650 --> 00:03:42,490 World, yeah. So let's talk like, let's 71 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:44,270 preface that with the audience listening. 72 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:49,190 We're in Canada, Toronto. This this is a very special 73 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:53,250 place and the world recognizes that right now. 74 00:03:53,260 --> 00:03:56,960 I believe that, you know, our city and our country have a 75 00:03:56,970 --> 00:03:59,360 voice that it didn't have, probably as a result of Mark 76 00:03:59,370 --> 00:04:01,800 Carney's Davos speech. There's a small window of 77 00:04:01,810 --> 00:04:04,980 opportunity right now where we can take advantage of that. 78 00:04:05,350 --> 00:04:08,680 And so all the conversations I have, I'm digging up Canada. 79 00:04:08,690 --> 00:04:10,780 I'm a patriot. I think that we should become 80 00:04:10,790 --> 00:04:13,920 patriotic and we should invest in ourselves right now. 81 00:04:13,930 --> 00:04:15,880 So anyway, I'm from Toronto, I'm from Canada. 82 00:04:15,890 --> 00:04:20,519 I grew up in a in a lovely. Welcome to Alex, everyone. 83 00:04:21,230 --> 00:04:23,280 I grew up in a lovely environment. 84 00:04:24,830 --> 00:04:26,210 Because I'm sure you did. Yeah. 85 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,590 And. What what, what kind of kid were 86 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:32,890 you? Were you a kid that was like, 87 00:04:32,900 --> 00:04:35,210 were you scientific? Were you exploratory? 88 00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:37,990 Were you artsy? Did you get on your bike? 89 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,510 And. You wanted I was a kid. 90 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:40,930 I was a kid that had a hard time. 91 00:04:41,020 --> 00:04:43,870 OK, with what? Oh, I had terrible learning 92 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:49,210 disabilities and I had a really hard time with language. 93 00:04:49,220 --> 00:04:56,120 In fact, I really, I probably had delayed reading and 94 00:04:56,490 --> 00:04:59,520 pronunciation. If you, if you call it that, 95 00:04:59,590 --> 00:05:02,520 it's like central auditory processing disorder, they call 96 00:05:02,530 --> 00:05:04,380 it OK. And so I've had to deal with 97 00:05:04,390 --> 00:05:08,330 that my whole life. But as a kid, it was 98 00:05:08,340 --> 00:05:11,140 tremendously, it was tremendously difficult because 99 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,300 I, I was not a star student. Yeah. 100 00:05:13,310 --> 00:05:18,490 And I had to be put into, I was very lucky my parents had the 101 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:21,540 resources to give me the, the support I needed. 102 00:05:21,830 --> 00:05:24,550 And I eventually, you know, got through Junior School. 103 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,800 But they as a kid, I was very tactile. 104 00:05:27,810 --> 00:05:30,590 It was very art. Art was my thing. 105 00:05:30,910 --> 00:05:32,730 It was what I could do. And what did you do? 106 00:05:32,740 --> 00:05:33,640 Like what kind of? Art. 107 00:05:34,290 --> 00:05:36,730 So in Toronto, for those listening from around the world, 108 00:05:36,740 --> 00:05:39,680 I'm sure every city has this. There's a man named Marty Gross 109 00:05:39,790 --> 00:05:43,720 and Mardi Gras has an art school where he, he was a man that I 110 00:05:43,730 --> 00:05:46,840 think made a lot of money in real estate, but loved or came 111 00:05:46,850 --> 00:05:50,300 from a real estate family. And he created an art school and 112 00:05:50,310 --> 00:05:55,610 he he taught kids and continues to teach kids black and white 113 00:05:55,620 --> 00:06:00,300 film composition as well as development. 114 00:06:00,310 --> 00:06:03,740 So he's a darkroom. He's extraordinary as a as a 7 115 00:06:03,750 --> 00:06:06,590 year old, 8 year old learning how to develop your own film. 116 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,920 You were working with film at 7:00 and. 117 00:06:08,930 --> 00:06:10,320 Eight. Yeah, I bet this is not 118 00:06:10,330 --> 00:06:11,220 uncommon. Credible. 119 00:06:11,290 --> 00:06:12,400 No, it's not. It's not uncommon. 120 00:06:12,410 --> 00:06:13,840 But. But he had film. 121 00:06:13,950 --> 00:06:17,260 Yeah, he had. You could do claymation, you 122 00:06:17,270 --> 00:06:19,820 could do. You could do cartooning. 123 00:06:19,890 --> 00:06:21,700 Whatever. You as a kid? 124 00:06:21,710 --> 00:06:24,650 Really. Gravitated to or could think of. 125 00:06:24,660 --> 00:06:28,680 Could think so one side was more photographic animation, 126 00:06:28,870 --> 00:06:33,140 cartooning, but it tactile pencils, crayons, Plato, 127 00:06:33,190 --> 00:06:37,560 claymation stop frame on the one side so the clean room yeah and 128 00:06:37,570 --> 00:06:41,340 then the other side it got messy there was a 5 foot by 5 foot 129 00:06:41,350 --> 00:06:45,510 kiln that he built right There was custom glazes. 130 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,440 You could make your own glaze. I mean, this was a place that 131 00:06:48,450 --> 00:06:51,910 was like a a laboratory of tactile artful. 132 00:06:52,430 --> 00:06:54,240 Candy store for your brain as a kid. 133 00:06:54,250 --> 00:06:56,780 It was, for all intents and purposes, a major art school 134 00:06:56,790 --> 00:06:58,920 condensed into like 3000 square feet, right? 135 00:06:58,970 --> 00:07:00,700 It was amazing. It was just kids and I think 136 00:07:00,710 --> 00:07:04,850 it's still there. And it was my salvation every 137 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:06,130 Wednesday. It was the IT was the most 138 00:07:06,140 --> 00:07:09,590 important thing in my life, young kid. 139 00:07:09,660 --> 00:07:13,280 Yeah, and. Did you feel isolated in school 140 00:07:13,290 --> 00:07:14,880 because of what you were dealing with? 141 00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:18,800 Yes, I felt isolated. I felt ashamed. 142 00:07:19,190 --> 00:07:27,430 I felt, I felt bullied, right? I felt and I wasn't, I wasn't, I 143 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,330 wasn't unathletic. I was a great skater. 144 00:07:29,340 --> 00:07:33,250 So I played hockey and I felt like I had an identity in, in 145 00:07:33,260 --> 00:07:36,640 hockey in the in the 80s in Canada. 146 00:07:36,820 --> 00:07:39,150 It's different today. I think there's a transformation 147 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,950 happening around whether hockey is is a central as it used to 148 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,930 be. I think it's important still. 149 00:07:43,940 --> 00:07:46,270 I was just talking to a buddy of mine man, and what he just had 150 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:49,350 to go through with his son getting to to make a select 151 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:50,610 team. It's still good. 152 00:07:50,620 --> 00:07:51,800 It's crazy. That's great. 153 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,680 That's crazy. I'm happy it's still alive 154 00:07:53,690 --> 00:07:54,820 because I. Remember. 155 00:07:54,830 --> 00:07:56,150 Very much so. Yeah, that's. 156 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,390 Great. He just built A-Team because his 157 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,050 the main team was full. So yeah, hockey is still very 158 00:08:02,060 --> 00:08:06,540 much thriving. Ohhh, thank the Lord so I 159 00:08:06,550 --> 00:08:08,830 remember that I wasn't I I was a goalie. 160 00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:15,310 So that also, if you think about goalies, goalies are a 161 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,260 particular breed. You're isolated. 162 00:08:18,430 --> 00:08:22,280 I I did things that I I probably isolated myself as a kid and 163 00:08:22,290 --> 00:08:24,940 felt like. More comfortable by. 164 00:08:24,950 --> 00:08:27,830 Me, well, no, I just felt unless it was had, I just wasn't. 165 00:08:28,150 --> 00:08:30,580 I just, I'm talking about as a young kid who had, I had my 166 00:08:30,590 --> 00:08:35,280 difficulties, but so the art thing really was a big thing and 167 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:39,750 I think that teachers were like, this is not university material. 168 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,840 And I had great friendships growing up. 169 00:08:44,110 --> 00:08:47,740 Wonderful brother. We built train sets together. 170 00:08:47,750 --> 00:08:50,730 We built. Lego motorized train sets or or 171 00:08:50,740 --> 00:08:52,280 the kind that you pull around with your hands. 172 00:08:52,510 --> 00:08:54,440 Motorized. OK, Yeah, My father really 173 00:08:54,450 --> 00:08:57,300 indulged in us to build a, it was like a 10 foot by 5 foot 174 00:08:57,590 --> 00:08:59,440 train set that we built mountains. 175 00:08:59,510 --> 00:09:01,780 Awesome. Like we, we, it was, it was a 176 00:09:01,790 --> 00:09:03,320 lovely thing. And we would go on the weekends 177 00:09:03,330 --> 00:09:06,100 with my father. He would take us to Rodney's 178 00:09:06,110 --> 00:09:10,650 Oysters for, for like, a brunch, and then we go to a hobby shop. 179 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:13,430 Awesome. And this was all in the East End 180 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,170 when Rodney's was in a basement. Yeah. 181 00:09:15,180 --> 00:09:19,050 Not fancy. OHS and not fancy. 182 00:09:19,110 --> 00:09:26,490 Yeah, and it was just, it was a great childhood, right? 183 00:09:26,580 --> 00:09:28,020 Yeah. But I had my you know, you want 184 00:09:28,030 --> 00:09:30,590 to humanize things, so no. No, but like that. 185 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,850 But this is this is even right now you're describing as 186 00:09:32,860 --> 00:09:34,350 humanizing. Like you're talking about 187 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,390 forming relationships with your with your family, having those 188 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,710 core memories of like the things that you look forward to on on 189 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,910 on a weekend, like, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, that is what 190 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:44,410 life is about. You're creating that now with 191 00:09:44,420 --> 00:09:46,950 with what you've got. So we'll get that too. 192 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:47,880 Yeah. So. 193 00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:50,520 Sorry. So let me just finish the the 194 00:09:50,530 --> 00:09:51,700 childhood thing. Yeah, please. 195 00:09:51,710 --> 00:09:53,280 I want to be complete about it. Yeah. 196 00:09:53,650 --> 00:09:56,160 And this dovetails into the architecture thing, so. 197 00:09:56,350 --> 00:09:58,660 There's, there's, there's a lot we're going to go through, so 198 00:09:58,670 --> 00:10:00,470 don't worry. Yeah, I'm sure you have a whole 199 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,800 script. My mother was trained at 200 00:10:04,810 --> 00:10:09,510 Parsons, and she was. She left because she had to take 201 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,620 care of her mother, who was dying when she was 20. 202 00:10:11,830 --> 00:10:16,170 Yeah, so my mother had a strong art background and she had an 203 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,820 incredible hand. My mother and father, as an 204 00:10:19,830 --> 00:10:21,900 early child, they would always help me with my science 205 00:10:21,910 --> 00:10:24,600 projects. And, you know, like I, I needed 206 00:10:24,610 --> 00:10:26,920 a lot of help. And so I saw what my mother was 207 00:10:26,930 --> 00:10:28,570 capable of, and I think she inspired me. 208 00:10:29,330 --> 00:10:33,220 I think she really impressed me. And my father was a PhD 209 00:10:33,230 --> 00:10:39,410 pathologist, surgeon, you know, real scientist and kind of a 210 00:10:39,420 --> 00:10:43,660 know it all, to be honest with you, you know that and a short 211 00:10:43,670 --> 00:10:47,550 and a shorter short fuse. But I had these two characters. 212 00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:48,980 You will. Need to be so patient with 213 00:10:48,990 --> 00:10:50,700 everything else. OK, alright, well. 214 00:10:50,710 --> 00:10:54,340 Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, so I love my dad, but 215 00:10:54,350 --> 00:10:56,080 I'm just saying, I'm just painting the picture. 216 00:10:56,090 --> 00:11:00,420 Yes. And back in the day when school 217 00:11:00,430 --> 00:11:04,440 was really, really hard and you didn't get marks for for. 218 00:11:04,570 --> 00:11:05,560 Effort. Effort. 219 00:11:05,570 --> 00:11:08,300 Yeah. My father was forced to do a PhD 220 00:11:08,310 --> 00:11:10,920 because he didn't get into medical school so his friends 221 00:11:10,930 --> 00:11:13,080 nickname for him was Doctor Doctor. 222 00:11:14,450 --> 00:11:16,010 Has he partied too much at Western? 223 00:11:16,020 --> 00:11:18,790 Which is for those who aren't from Canada listening right now. 224 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,580 Western is like the party school in Canada. 225 00:11:21,590 --> 00:11:25,010 That's where you go there's. A list on the list of North 226 00:11:25,020 --> 00:11:27,820 America like when we were. But also at the same time one of 227 00:11:27,830 --> 00:11:29,150 the great business schools in the world. 228 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,870 Anyway I digress. So you got my 2 parents, but 229 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:34,540 then there was my grandparents and my grand. 230 00:11:36,190 --> 00:11:39,060 Start pause your grandparents noticing times 12:00. 231 00:11:39,850 --> 00:11:41,020 Doesn't matter. Keep on going. 232 00:11:41,170 --> 00:11:42,500 Sure. Well, hold on here. 233 00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:45,940 Zishan, we're gonna pause for one SEC, right? 234 00:11:45,950 --> 00:11:53,910 We're talking about grandparents security. 235 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:18,280 2nd. Pause. 236 00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:29,880 So then there were the grandparents, and they were, on 237 00:12:29,890 --> 00:12:35,420 the one hand, extraordinarily accomplished and at the, at the 238 00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:38,160 same time not intimidating at all. 239 00:12:39,220 --> 00:12:42,550 My grandmother loved me. They, they called her Mrs. J. 240 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:45,590 She was, you know, this is a woman who started a business 241 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,260 when she was in 1935 with her husband, very formidable 242 00:12:50,270 --> 00:12:53,580 businesswoman in Toronto. And her husband died in the 243 00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:56,060 early 80s. So she ran a business with 244 00:12:56,270 --> 00:13:00,770 several stores across the city, optician shops for better part 245 00:13:00,780 --> 00:13:03,040 of 15 years before my uncle took it over. 246 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:08,240 And she, she was tough and she did not treat me the way she 247 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:11,240 treated my cousins and and other people and my brother. 248 00:13:11,730 --> 00:13:17,370 She for some reason just, I guess she just liked me, which 249 00:13:17,380 --> 00:13:21,190 was weird because it wasn't until midway through high school 250 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,750 that I was a respectable student or what you might call someone 251 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,580 to be proud of. But she there was maybe just 252 00:13:28,590 --> 00:13:32,960 some quantum energy between us that she liked and that's the 253 00:13:32,970 --> 00:13:35,940 way it worked. But she was extraordinary. 254 00:13:36,010 --> 00:13:39,540 She used to wear the same thing, at least almost all the time. 255 00:13:39,830 --> 00:13:44,750 Black leather pants, pumps, a white blouse with a fruit with a 256 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,750 with a collar and a black jacket. 257 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:53,010 It was like it was like she was she was a she was a character 258 00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:58,180 shake huge personality. And, and then my on my, on my 259 00:13:58,290 --> 00:14:02,980 mother's side again like a another one of these like rags 260 00:14:02,990 --> 00:14:07,290 to, I wanna say rags to riches, but rags to prosperity brought 261 00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:09,240 these stories of people coming to Canada. 262 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,700 My grandmother, she was part of a family that came here in 1820 263 00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:16,950 from Vienna. Who leaves the the centre of the 264 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,100 world, the Austria Hungarian seat of power in 1820? 265 00:14:20,110 --> 00:14:23,190 That's the most powerful empire in the world at the time, 266 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,380 basically. I mean, maybe the British 267 00:14:25,390 --> 00:14:27,800 Empire, right? But like, you're talking about 268 00:14:27,850 --> 00:14:31,320 massive power, massive wealth, massive prosperity in Vienna. 269 00:14:31,330 --> 00:14:34,460 Who leaves Vienna in 1820 and comes to Toronto? 270 00:14:35,370 --> 00:14:37,850 What was here in 1820, where we're sitting right now is 271 00:14:37,860 --> 00:14:41,740 probably a forest. In 1820, a 100% it was this. 272 00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:43,720 Was a forest, Yeah. With bears. 273 00:14:44,490 --> 00:14:48,720 The ants that surrounded us. Rain, rain free, like and. 274 00:14:48,730 --> 00:14:53,740 And these people intrepidly saw I, I mean, like I, I. 275 00:14:53,790 --> 00:14:55,730 And we'll talk about this later. I wish I knew. 276 00:14:56,810 --> 00:14:59,700 I wish there was a letter. I wish there was something that 277 00:14:59,710 --> 00:15:02,750 said what what made them do that? 278 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,380 Cause you had to have, you had to have incredible courage. 279 00:15:07,380 --> 00:15:11,270 And so on my father's side, there's this, this just story of 280 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,730 upheaval and, and emigration and, and, and then and then 281 00:15:15,740 --> 00:15:20,290 prosperity and hard work and, and it's just a funny thing, 282 00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:22,080 right? And then on my mother's side, 283 00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,970 again, Eastern European, Russian immigrants, but more like early 284 00:15:26,980 --> 00:15:29,590 19 teens, post World War One kind of thing. 285 00:15:30,020 --> 00:15:35,190 And my grandfather who was an extraordinary guy that the 286 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,150 grandmother was Meryl Josephson to give a name to a story. 287 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,490 And my, my grandfather was William Finston and William 288 00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:45,260 Finston graduate high school at 14. 289 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:54,170 And he he bought a truck to go and get scrap steel. 290 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,170 Who's collecting scrap steel? And Can you imagine that? 291 00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:01,220 Like what were you doing when you were 14? 292 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,110 What? Why? 293 00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:04,650 What were you doing? When you were 14? 294 00:16:04,660 --> 00:16:07,470 Seriously. You ask a valid question. 295 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,070 What was I doing? I didn't expect this to be 296 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,150 flipped on me. What was I doing? 297 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,780 I was. I was doing multiple things. 298 00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:17,860 I was playing tennis a lot. I grew up playing tennis, 299 00:16:18,330 --> 00:16:22,440 playing tennis. Obviously I was in school, I 300 00:16:22,450 --> 00:16:23,800 say. Obviously that's not obvious, 301 00:16:23,810 --> 00:16:26,560 but I was in school not. Obvious, yeah, but. 302 00:16:27,070 --> 00:16:30,960 Exactly and and I used to play basketball after school with 303 00:16:30,970 --> 00:16:33,890 friends call it from like when the bell rang and we go to 304 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:35,600 friends house. You play basketball, so you. 305 00:16:35,610 --> 00:16:37,750 Were having a good time I. Was yeah, I was having a good 306 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,460 time. Yeah, on the weekends I would go 307 00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:40,920 see movies. It was not like the big party 308 00:16:40,930 --> 00:16:43,740 guy. Well, anyway, yeah. 309 00:16:43,790 --> 00:16:44,930 It was you were having. It was not. 310 00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:47,080 It was not buying a pickup truck and going collect scrap that you 311 00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:48,490 were having. Ohk, ohk. 312 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:50,840 But I was running a babysitting business. 313 00:16:50,890 --> 00:16:52,140 There you go, you're entrepreneurial. 314 00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:53,600 Yeah, I actually forgot to say this. 315 00:16:53,610 --> 00:16:56,040 Yeah, so. And I was almost coaching 316 00:16:56,050 --> 00:16:58,120 tennis, but the babysitting business was a business. 317 00:16:58,250 --> 00:17:01,360 Like I had enough clients that I had one or two friends working 318 00:17:01,370 --> 00:17:02,530 for me. Wow. 319 00:17:03,860 --> 00:17:05,490 Wow, that's fun. That's cool. 320 00:17:05,530 --> 00:17:07,680 That was fun. Like that is interesting. 321 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,050 I'll talk about that at 14, I was. 322 00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:15,760 Probably like in the fall when I was 14, I was failing out of 323 00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:20,310 high school potentially and getting the riot act written to 324 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,990 me because I was just, it wasn't even from partying, it was from 325 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,430 a lack of focus, right? In the meantime, my grandfather 326 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,090 graduated from high school, had bought a scrap an old used truck 327 00:17:31,790 --> 00:17:35,390 and was picking up scrap steel making making money for his 328 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,920 family and he eventually became successful enough that he on his 329 00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:42,460 own scraps steelyard on what was Cherry St. 330 00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:47,620 Spit Crazy. And that was the 1920s, 30s. 331 00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:50,530 I mean like what these people went through. 332 00:17:50,540 --> 00:17:54,740 I don't, I can't even believe and now what I what we get to 333 00:17:54,750 --> 00:17:57,280 experience. It's, which is funny too, 334 00:17:57,290 --> 00:17:59,040 because I mean, look, you can't change. 335 00:17:59,830 --> 00:18:02,000 I say this because like, you know what you're describing, 336 00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:03,780 like you can't change what family you're born into. 337 00:18:03,790 --> 00:18:06,780 You can't do anything with that, right, other than trying to 338 00:18:06,790 --> 00:18:08,920 maintain some form of legacy. And the things that you're gonna 339 00:18:08,930 --> 00:18:12,120 try to do for yourself and make sure that you try to honor what 340 00:18:12,130 --> 00:18:16,180 all the all the trials and tribulations, successes and 341 00:18:16,190 --> 00:18:20,090 probably multiple failures that people had to have in order to 342 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:23,930 be able to gain their success. I say that because, you know, 343 00:18:24,940 --> 00:18:26,510 you're now running a great practice. 344 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,730 Let's let's so continue. Sorry, I yeah, I got you 345 00:18:30,740 --> 00:18:35,520 thinking. But so before high school and my 346 00:18:35,530 --> 00:18:40,760 grandparents, I I was interested in drawing and all these things, 347 00:18:40,770 --> 00:18:43,850 right? So when I was about 8, I think 348 00:18:44,620 --> 00:18:49,090 probably around then I was, I guess that's when you kind of, 349 00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:52,010 it was probably 7, actually it was probably grade one, grade 350 00:18:52,020 --> 00:18:56,200 two. I was still at what was, I 351 00:18:56,210 --> 00:19:01,820 guess, Forest Hill Junior School, and I had a crush on a 352 00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:05,440 girl from Toronto. Her name was Jessica Slan. 353 00:19:05,450 --> 00:19:06,700 I don't know where she is these days. 354 00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:11,320 I'm sure she's great, right? But I, I drew her a castle and 355 00:19:11,790 --> 00:19:15,060 it was a castle in section and you have to go back to Lego. 356 00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:18,600 Lego, you got the instructions and they were in section and 3D. 357 00:19:18,730 --> 00:19:22,900 And that really inspired me and the castles and medieval 358 00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:25,260 culture. And it, it was a moment in the 359 00:19:25,270 --> 00:19:27,100 80s when Lego was doing all this stuff. 360 00:19:27,170 --> 00:19:29,320 It's different today. It's much more based on movies 361 00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:30,780 and brand collaborations and stuff. 362 00:19:30,790 --> 00:19:34,480 There was a kind of whimsical quality to it, very imaginative 363 00:19:34,490 --> 00:19:38,500 whimsical quality to. It, I mean, I Lego was my 364 00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:39,600 favorite thing. It's. 365 00:19:39,610 --> 00:19:41,630 Great. Still, I'm not being Lego, it's 366 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:42,870 just it was different. Yes. 367 00:19:44,270 --> 00:19:50,280 And, and so I drew this girl a castle in section and I remember 368 00:19:50,290 --> 00:19:52,940 the drawing actually. And I guess I got a date out of 369 00:19:52,950 --> 00:19:55,160 it and we played Snakes and Ladders. 370 00:19:55,970 --> 00:19:59,010 This is how I remember it. Maybe she'll get in touch and be 371 00:19:59,020 --> 00:20:00,720 like, yeah, it didn't go down like that. 372 00:20:01,710 --> 00:20:04,120 But. But to that point, I found out 373 00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:06,520 that the people who draw buildings for other people are 374 00:20:06,530 --> 00:20:09,010 architects. And then from that point on, 375 00:20:09,020 --> 00:20:11,020 everybody was like, you shouldn't be an architect. 376 00:20:11,150 --> 00:20:12,420 Shouldn't. Yeah. 377 00:20:12,430 --> 00:20:14,280 I mean, no one in my circle was an architect. 378 00:20:14,290 --> 00:20:16,340 I didn't grow up with architects around me. 379 00:20:16,430 --> 00:20:20,360 Architecture is not a common profession in Canada. 380 00:20:20,430 --> 00:20:25,040 At least it's it's a minor. It's a minor rare study stream 381 00:20:25,050 --> 00:20:28,440 in Canada. It's not like Italy or Germany 382 00:20:28,450 --> 00:20:31,680 or these other countries where architecture is almost seen as 383 00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:35,520 a, as a, as a very good liberal arts degree that you study and 384 00:20:35,530 --> 00:20:37,640 then you go on to do other things because it's so it's, 385 00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:40,520 it's, it's so variable. Sorry, it's so versatile. 386 00:20:41,070 --> 00:20:45,360 And so that was the beginning of rebellion. 387 00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:47,460 It was like everybody was saying, oh, you shouldn't do 388 00:20:47,470 --> 00:20:48,960 that. It's a hard, it's really hard. 389 00:20:48,970 --> 00:20:50,360 It doesn't. You know, you won't make a lot 390 00:20:50,370 --> 00:20:54,520 of money. And then this happened when I 391 00:20:54,530 --> 00:20:58,910 was about 12A dear friend's grandmother died and there was 392 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,030 this huge party and tables and very fancy people. 393 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:08,630 And I was wearing my my little uniform from school and I was 394 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,010 introduced to a man named Jim Krang. 395 00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:15,010 And in the 80s and 70s that one of the biggest firms in Canada 396 00:21:15,020 --> 00:21:18,170 was called Crying and Broke. It was this massive architecture 397 00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:22,960 firm and he told me, oh you, you shouldn't be an architect. 398 00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:27,680 Can you imagine like a 75 year old man or 80 year old man? 399 00:21:27,690 --> 00:21:29,700 You probably would have been 80 cause he was friends of the 400 00:21:29,710 --> 00:21:33,890 woman who died. And he, he, he wasn't 401 00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:35,810 encouraging me. He wasn't saying, hey, come 402 00:21:35,820 --> 00:21:38,710 over. Yeah, I remember walking up to 403 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,240 him and I remember I have the distinct memory of this. 404 00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:45,500 Excited, full of piss and vinegar and like, let's do this 405 00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:47,900 just like you, really. Shouldn't do this You Are you 406 00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:51,340 sure someone I don't know if you want to do this right, but so 407 00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:55,950 some people some kids do drugs, they run away they they paint 408 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,790 their nails black, they dress up as a goth. 409 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,760 Whatever it is, you rebel. So what it became clear was, Oh, 410 00:22:01,770 --> 00:22:05,200 no one wants to be an architect. This is my form of rebellion. 411 00:22:05,310 --> 00:22:07,400 It was like telling my family I wanted to be an actor or 412 00:22:07,410 --> 00:22:08,460 something. It wasn't. 413 00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:10,360 They were so down on me. But it wasn't. 414 00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:12,890 It was certainly like, oh, you're gonna have your work cut 415 00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:15,200 out for you, young boy, because this is not an easy path. 416 00:22:15,570 --> 00:22:17,380 And it was like rebellion, rebellion. 417 00:22:17,390 --> 00:22:19,880 And that was my rebellion, right? 418 00:22:19,890 --> 00:22:22,440 It probably kept me out of a lot of trouble, at least some. 419 00:22:22,670 --> 00:22:24,640 I did other things that got me into a lot of trouble, like 420 00:22:24,650 --> 00:22:28,020 joyriding cars and throwing eggs at, you know, buses and dumb 421 00:22:28,030 --> 00:22:31,110 things like that. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's 422 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:35,670 a lot of eggs in the world. You can clean them off exactly. 423 00:22:36,380 --> 00:22:39,690 So, So what? So you started focusing in high 424 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:43,970 school on the art rather than making the assumptive statement? 425 00:22:43,980 --> 00:22:49,550 Let me ask the question, did you then start focusing on on school 426 00:22:49,620 --> 00:22:52,850 subjects that would lead you to that path or not? 427 00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:54,460 No. Because the number of people who 428 00:22:54,470 --> 00:22:57,430 understand the path that you need to get to, to be a good 429 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,170 architect in Canada, even I would say today is, is less is 430 00:23:02,180 --> 00:23:06,350 not common. And so obviously you, you 431 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,260 immediately everybody's like, I have to be good at math and art. 432 00:23:12,070 --> 00:23:14,880 This is where you good at math. Not really. 433 00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:18,920 OK, not really. I, I could draw and I liked art 434 00:23:19,010 --> 00:23:22,780 and I was handy, but I was not a good student. 435 00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:27,980 I, I, I, it wasn't until my basically my mother convinced a 436 00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:31,890 beautiful school in Toronto in the mid 90s called Royal St. 437 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:35,000 Georges College, which was a it's, it's an all boys school. 438 00:23:35,010 --> 00:23:37,680 It's it's, I think very Shishi today. 439 00:23:37,690 --> 00:23:41,860 Today she based. There was a very good art 440 00:23:41,870 --> 00:23:45,510 program there. It was the arts boys school and 441 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:50,910 she basically was like, listen, I have faith in this boy. 442 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,460 Give him a year. If he doesn't have a 75 at the 443 00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:57,370 end of the year you can kick him. 444 00:23:58,650 --> 00:24:01,580 And at the end of the first term it was looking like a 55, not a 445 00:24:01,590 --> 00:24:05,700 75 like I was. I remember crying in math class 446 00:24:05,780 --> 00:24:09,020 because you asked about math, and his name was Werner Shriner, 447 00:24:09,270 --> 00:24:10,790 the math teacher. Hmm. 448 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,010 And there was a couple of people who saved my life, and he's one 449 00:24:14,020 --> 00:24:20,410 of them. And my mom, my mom just she she 450 00:24:20,620 --> 00:24:27,900 to the mothers out there, mothers that instinct that that 451 00:24:27,910 --> 00:24:30,880 representative instinct in a mother for their kids. 452 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,090 It's like the most valuable thing in the world. 453 00:24:35,140 --> 00:24:38,600 I. Mean my man, my wife same way 454 00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:42,630 man might so really really really short but on this but my 455 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,630 wife the same thing My our our eldest daughter when she was as 456 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,710 she was growing, she was not growing properly. 457 00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:53,870 She was 3 and she dry skins or her hair was not looking 458 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,110 amazing. Yeah, and we got her tested and 459 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,350 turns out that she had celiac and she. 460 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:00,370 Oh my. Lord, one of the. 461 00:25:00,380 --> 00:25:07,670 Youngest kids ever. Tested it at Sick Kids and we we 462 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,820 immediately changed her diet and now she flourishes. 463 00:25:12,050 --> 00:25:14,630 And that's as a result of my wife's instinct. 464 00:25:15,410 --> 00:25:17,660 Instead of you going like oh we just got a dud. 465 00:25:17,710 --> 00:25:21,780 I didn't mean you're so far from that. 466 00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:25,190 Oh my God, Wendy, imagine I said that to you. 467 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,280 I'm just saying there's a very. Different very different way the 468 00:25:30,290 --> 00:25:35,050 maternal instinct is incredible and you know, we we definitely 469 00:25:35,060 --> 00:25:37,210 don't have that my. Wife has it, yeah. 470 00:25:37,250 --> 00:25:38,770 I'm saying we no. We don't. 471 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,110 I know some men have it, some men have not. 472 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:44,750 Quite the same way. I don't want to be. 473 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,350 I don't think this is a gender. I mean, whatever I'm. 474 00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:51,410 Just saying that maternal instinct is incredible. 475 00:25:51,460 --> 00:25:53,690 It's. Incredible and and Werner 476 00:25:53,700 --> 00:26:00,410 Schreiner save, save me. He he spent time with me after 477 00:26:00,420 --> 00:26:06,210 school because I don't know why. I don't know why you did I. 478 00:26:06,220 --> 00:26:07,530 Know right? I don't know. 479 00:26:07,540 --> 00:26:09,810 Why you did I? Remember telling my grade 11 480 00:26:09,820 --> 00:26:12,630 math teacher is dropping out of his class and he gave me a piece 481 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,700 of paper? He said this is how many jobs 482 00:26:14,710 --> 00:26:15,780 you're gonna you're not gonna get. 483 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,810 Well, I mean and. I my response to my said, you 484 00:26:18,820 --> 00:26:20,760 know a lot of those jobs you can use calculators. 485 00:26:22,590 --> 00:26:25,220 Well, you were much smarter. You are much more innovative in 486 00:26:25,230 --> 00:26:28,080 your in your response. I I cried. 487 00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:33,020 I just, I felt like a failure and I felt like I was gonna 488 00:26:33,030 --> 00:26:40,590 disappoint my family. And I guess I got help, right? 489 00:26:40,660 --> 00:26:46,510 And I also, I also saw a psychiatrist and I, I got. 490 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,930 Help. I went down that road too, and 491 00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:50,490 my youth, my. Mother helped me. 492 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,650 My mother, yeah, my mother helped me. 493 00:26:52,660 --> 00:26:56,420 And I think that a lot of boys growing up developments 494 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,360 scientifically and clinically proven to be slower and we we're 495 00:27:01,370 --> 00:27:06,040 different, Yeah. But I think the mother and that 496 00:27:06,050 --> 00:27:10,430 teacher at Saint Georges and then and then suddenly this 497 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,810 other teacher, extraordinary man, John Billion, bless his 498 00:27:14,820 --> 00:27:18,370 soul, he, he passed away at a very young age. 499 00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:27,760 One of Canada's most celebrated realist figure Figurative 500 00:27:27,770 --> 00:27:32,570 artists, portrait artists, portraitists, classical painter 501 00:27:32,580 --> 00:27:37,020 by training and he decided he wanted to teach at Royal St. 502 00:27:37,030 --> 00:27:42,260 Georges and it was interesting. He was a UC boy and you? 503 00:27:42,270 --> 00:27:44,600 Wouldn't go back to you. Wouldn't go back to the CI. 504 00:27:44,610 --> 00:27:47,060 Don't. He was too. 505 00:27:47,970 --> 00:27:51,820 He was too good for them. Wait wait wait. 506 00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:56,670 To way too good at art because UC isn't an art. 507 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,580 You know, like that That was an athletic school at the time. 508 00:28:00,590 --> 00:28:02,500 Like right. That school hat was forced into 509 00:28:02,510 --> 00:28:05,440 evolution because of the because of its sins. 510 00:28:05,730 --> 00:28:09,760 I mean that that school produced awful cultures of behavior. 511 00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:15,540 And I remember as a kid what like it, it was stark, the 512 00:28:15,550 --> 00:28:18,250 difference between the cultures of these boy schools, right? 513 00:28:18,340 --> 00:28:20,650 And St. Georges was about culture. 514 00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:25,590 It was about art, it was a it was also about science and those 515 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,380 things. But but there was this 516 00:28:27,390 --> 00:28:34,240 incredible investment in culture and amazing artists have come 517 00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:37,840 out of the school, including musicians and singers, opera 518 00:28:37,850 --> 00:28:43,410 singers, bands, and John Billion taught me how to draw. 519 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,100 I already drew, but this man, he taught me how to sculpt with a 520 00:28:48,110 --> 00:28:52,000 pencil, right? I mean, he was an award-winning, 521 00:28:52,010 --> 00:28:55,060 internationally revered classical painter. 522 00:28:55,130 --> 00:29:00,400 And he basically, you know, with these small classes and I 523 00:29:00,410 --> 00:29:03,210 started living in the how? Many kids were in Class 8. 524 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,710 OK. And did you ever get extra like 525 00:29:05,780 --> 00:29:08,730 or would you wanna get extra time with him afterwards? 526 00:29:08,740 --> 00:29:09,620 Like, did you? Oh, I. 527 00:29:09,630 --> 00:29:13,510 See, I I lived. I started to live in grade 10. 528 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,620 I, I essentially started to live at, at the school, right? 529 00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:21,320 I'd come home at 6:00, you know, people would stay and do 530 00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:24,340 athletics. Yeah, I'd also did some 531 00:29:24,350 --> 00:29:28,690 athletics, but I, I did art and I, I remember I'd come home at 532 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:31,940 around six. Yeah, you know, school ends at 533 00:29:31,950 --> 00:29:35,340 2:45, right? And he would stay with me and 534 00:29:36,860 --> 00:29:39,330 he, it was funny. All these art schools at high 535 00:29:39,340 --> 00:29:41,590 schools and stuff, they have pottery wheels and clones and 536 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,520 all this. He's like, he was like, Alex, do 537 00:29:43,530 --> 00:29:45,540 you want one of these? They're useless. 538 00:29:45,550 --> 00:29:49,020 They're dead to me. Like he, he was like, he was 539 00:29:49,030 --> 00:29:53,950 like, this is not hobby house. This is classical art. 540 00:29:54,020 --> 00:29:55,310 Yeah, training here. Yeah. 541 00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:57,370 And learn. And learn, learn the mastery of 542 00:29:57,380 --> 00:29:58,710 this. And if it weren't for him, I 543 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,730 wouldn't have gotten into architecture school. 544 00:30:00,740 --> 00:30:05,880 I wouldn't have had the advisory that knew the process of trying 545 00:30:05,890 --> 00:30:08,510 to get into a US school or a good university for this, 546 00:30:08,580 --> 00:30:12,590 because nobody was applying to these programs for architecture. 547 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,950 That's how rare it was. But these are the these are the 548 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,770 people that really stuck out and it worked. 549 00:30:24,270 --> 00:30:27,810 OK, I'm absorbing it for a second. 550 00:30:27,980 --> 00:30:30,560 OK, Cause I, I can appreciate that. 551 00:30:30,570 --> 00:30:33,280 I mean, it's funny. So I, I was, I was talking with 552 00:30:33,470 --> 00:30:38,080 anymore Yosef months ago about this and we both went to the 553 00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:40,000 same high school. We went to York Mills in 554 00:30:40,010 --> 00:30:42,820 Toronto. At the time that we were there, 555 00:30:42,830 --> 00:30:45,420 York Mills was rated as the number one public high school in 556 00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:48,680 Canada. And you know, talking about 557 00:30:48,690 --> 00:30:50,900 lucky to experience something like that. 558 00:30:50,910 --> 00:30:53,200 You know, they had 98% graduation rate. 559 00:30:53,550 --> 00:30:57,160 And we had a teacher in art who was so tough, but she ended up 560 00:30:57,170 --> 00:31:01,630 actually becoming, in many ways you describe this gentleman, a 561 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,550 mentor for her and her tutelage to be able to go out and grow. 562 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,810 And there are these figurative people that you can you can meet 563 00:31:08,980 --> 00:31:11,070 when you don't know that you need to meet them. 564 00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:15,850 They're completely transform your entire trajectory of life 565 00:31:16,810 --> 00:31:19,740 and it's a beautiful thing to know that like those kind of 566 00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:21,930 people exist My. Guess is that teachers live for 567 00:31:21,940 --> 00:31:23,270 that. Yeah. 568 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,170 And they pick they they pick their opportunities, yeah, but 569 00:31:26,180 --> 00:31:27,580 it's. Also, it's a really hard 570 00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:30,930 profession and you're met with a lot of challenges to be able to 571 00:31:30,940 --> 00:31:33,250 get to the point where you have a kid now that like 572 00:31:33,260 --> 00:31:35,380 reinvigorates your love for the craft. 573 00:31:36,450 --> 00:31:38,510 You mean for teaching? For teaching, Yeah. 574 00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:40,380 Teaching is is so hard. It's. 575 00:31:40,390 --> 00:31:44,800 So hard so, so OK, so so let's talk about what you what you 576 00:31:44,810 --> 00:31:46,670 take away from this and what does it turn into? 577 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,820 Where did you end up applying for university? 578 00:31:48,830 --> 00:31:53,920 Where did you go? So I applied to Cornell and 579 00:31:53,930 --> 00:32:01,240 Waterloo and UFT and I think that was it. 580 00:32:01,290 --> 00:32:04,520 OK. I may have also applied to 581 00:32:04,530 --> 00:32:08,430 McMaster for Health Sciences or. Something. 582 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,660 You know, there was this, my physics teacher, I was, I was 583 00:32:11,710 --> 00:32:14,900 really, really into chemistry and physics. 584 00:32:15,210 --> 00:32:17,760 OK, I. Was like, as much as I was into 585 00:32:17,770 --> 00:32:27,320 art, I was I was seriously into physics and chemistry, but and 586 00:32:27,330 --> 00:32:30,240 and all the other things like the humanities, I wasn't a 587 00:32:30,410 --> 00:32:34,290 superior student. That guy became top five in the 588 00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:38,360 class there. Yeah, but, but, but I also got 589 00:32:38,370 --> 00:32:41,170 into public speaking. I was a bit of an exhibitionist 590 00:32:41,860 --> 00:32:43,230 when I came. An extrovert. 591 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,820 Not an exhibitionist, but certainly an extrovert. 592 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,570 And, or at least I'd like to attention. 593 00:32:48,830 --> 00:32:50,210 And maybe that's true today, too. 594 00:32:51,550 --> 00:32:56,440 OK, so so we're So what do you do? 595 00:32:58,140 --> 00:32:59,020 Wait. Where'd you go? 596 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,500 So I I got all these university applications. 597 00:33:02,510 --> 00:33:05,920 Yeah. And my father drove me down to 598 00:33:05,930 --> 00:33:14,130 Cornell and I had this interview and, and the guy was just like, 599 00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:16,730 you need to do art school. You don't want to be an 600 00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:19,000 architect. It was like, it was like a 601 00:33:19,010 --> 00:33:23,680 flaming train wreck. It was a terrible interview and 602 00:33:24,330 --> 00:33:26,050 was. It your first of the schools, 603 00:33:26,130 --> 00:33:28,840 you had an interview. There weren't. 604 00:33:28,890 --> 00:33:31,530 Waterloo had very. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you about 605 00:33:31,540 --> 00:33:31,940 them. I. 606 00:33:31,950 --> 00:33:33,660 Know that's why I asked if it was the first one. 607 00:33:33,970 --> 00:33:39,800 It was the first one and my dad. It'll come back to my dad later. 608 00:33:39,810 --> 00:33:43,690 My dad drove me down there. OK, My dad snored so much that 609 00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:47,550 the hotel we stayed in, I, I, I took the duvet off the bed and 610 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,050 slept in the bathroom because I was just, I couldn't sleep. 611 00:33:50,060 --> 00:33:52,770 I was combination of anxiety and my father snoring. 612 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,320 And I remember this trip. And anyway, circle back to that. 613 00:34:01,110 --> 00:34:03,240 Waterloo's interview process was rigorous. 614 00:34:03,330 --> 00:34:06,720 Yes, it had a writing test. It had an interview, it had a 615 00:34:06,730 --> 00:34:09,300 portfolio. It it it was. 616 00:34:09,650 --> 00:34:11,600 And at the time it was the hardest architecture school in 617 00:34:11,610 --> 00:34:14,179 Canada to get into. And so I got in there and I got 618 00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:19,980 into Health Sciences. I believe in McMaster and it's a 619 00:34:19,989 --> 00:34:22,909 tough choice, but basically I didn't get into Cornell. 620 00:34:23,590 --> 00:34:29,679 And I learned later that my father was like so happy because 621 00:34:30,110 --> 00:34:35,230 the cost of going to these schools is just mega, mega, 622 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,520 mega. I got it back later, but yeah, 623 00:34:37,530 --> 00:34:42,150 yeah, I'll tell you about the like, just my escapism. 624 00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:46,860 Academically to Europe. It was expensive, but he 625 00:34:46,870 --> 00:34:50,000 supported me and, and, but I think that that was a gift. 626 00:34:50,150 --> 00:34:52,520 OK, That was a kind of silver lining. 627 00:34:52,820 --> 00:34:59,610 And I accepted Waterloo and yeah, it was, it was a very 628 00:34:59,620 --> 00:35:02,500 special school. It teaches architecture in a 629 00:35:02,510 --> 00:35:04,370 different way. There's a course called 630 00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:06,420 Iconography, which essentially forces. 631 00:35:07,610 --> 00:35:12,690 Forces is the word. You have to read a canonical 632 00:35:12,740 --> 00:35:16,550 level piece of literature and you start. 633 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,060 You know, each term is a different era, so you might 634 00:35:19,070 --> 00:35:22,100 start in modernism, for example, and then you go back and second 635 00:35:22,110 --> 00:35:26,050 term to like Roman era. OK. 636 00:35:26,060 --> 00:35:29,850 And then you read the pieces of literature, philosophy of these 637 00:35:29,860 --> 00:35:34,890 eras, and you are given one question a week and you have 638 00:35:34,940 --> 00:35:38,710 half an hour to answer it. Evaluate the significance of 639 00:35:38,780 --> 00:35:42,410 whatever this is in the context of of the book. 640 00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:46,970 And it was evaluative criticism and you had to read the book and 641 00:35:46,980 --> 00:35:50,510 you had to have a very strong sense of lateral thinking. 642 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,530 And a good grade was a C plus, right? 643 00:35:54,410 --> 00:35:57,700 I mean, I I went from being a strong mid 90s student in high 644 00:35:57,710 --> 00:36:03,090 school to being proud of my grade point average in my first 645 00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:05,580 term at Waterloo of being like 81 or something. 646 00:36:05,590 --> 00:36:09,780 It was like a big deal because the average, when I started 647 00:36:09,790 --> 00:36:12,850 University of Waterloo, there were no participation grades. 648 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,070 You could fail. Kids failed. 649 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,430 I mean I I. Was going to fail in high 650 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,530 school. The kids failed and and now kids 651 00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:22,910 don't fail. Nobody fails. 652 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,600 There's no failure anymore. OK, who? 653 00:36:26,610 --> 00:36:28,700 Created this. It's so broken. 654 00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:31,920 I am not an. I am not an insensitive person. 655 00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:36,620 Yeah, I am not. I'm not mean, I'm not evil, but 656 00:36:36,630 --> 00:36:40,560 this idea that that that like. What happens in work culture 657 00:36:40,570 --> 00:36:43,730 when you're eventually gonna go and deliver something and it's 658 00:36:43,740 --> 00:36:46,830 trash? You get you. 659 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,580 Get fired. It's the first time in like put. 660 00:36:49,590 --> 00:36:50,940 You put on a first. Time in 20. 661 00:36:50,950 --> 00:36:52,250 Sorry. Singer Canada. 662 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:55,370 You're put on a performance improvement plan and then when 663 00:36:55,380 --> 00:37:00,110 that fails, you're fired. Yeah, So I ended up at Waterloo. 664 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,010 Yeah. What about you? 665 00:37:03,020 --> 00:37:09,870 Where did you end up? 12 I studied I study program 666 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,400 called is broadcast and print journalism and Media studies 667 00:37:13,470 --> 00:37:20,650 cool part of the first year of this at the university there 668 00:37:20,660 --> 00:37:23,110 were three programs. There was us, there was 669 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,920 business. Yeah. 670 00:37:26,030 --> 00:37:30,930 And you in our in ours, you could pick your stream of either 671 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:38,630 PR or media and you ended up getting a, a condensed typical 672 00:37:38,740 --> 00:37:42,530 of if you want to do these independently, you get a you'd 673 00:37:42,540 --> 00:37:45,370 have to do a four year medium sized degree 12 and then do a 674 00:37:45,380 --> 00:37:50,360 two year diploma program at Humber and they combine them. 675 00:37:50,410 --> 00:37:55,130 So they took six years of school and put them in the four and we 676 00:37:55,140 --> 00:38:00,980 had like, we had weird stuff do. You'd have like you could have 677 00:38:00,990 --> 00:38:03,200 multiple projects due in a week. So hard. 678 00:38:03,270 --> 00:38:08,840 And I also had to learn disability and struggled with 679 00:38:08,850 --> 00:38:10,780 that a lot over the course of my life. 680 00:38:11,690 --> 00:38:17,750 That's cool, put me to the test, like to the brink on my dad. 681 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,300 Told my dad I was dropping out after third year and my dad and 682 00:38:20,310 --> 00:38:22,860 I almost got into a fist fight. Yeah. 683 00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:27,880 And, and yeah, he had to go to go for a drive and I, I had to 684 00:38:27,890 --> 00:38:30,320 go talk to my mother. And my mom was just, you know, 685 00:38:30,330 --> 00:38:32,260 it's gonna take him a minute to get around to this. 686 00:38:32,270 --> 00:38:35,300 You know, she's always been to your point about mothers. 687 00:38:35,390 --> 00:38:39,340 You know, my mom has always been an incredible force of nature. 688 00:38:39,430 --> 00:38:42,120 And being. Able to speak some level of 689 00:38:42,130 --> 00:38:46,340 reason into a situation and analyze things at a very, very 690 00:38:46,430 --> 00:38:50,880 granular level. Um, but it was, it was a it was, 691 00:38:50,890 --> 00:38:56,170 it was tough going yeah. And post, post secondary, you 692 00:38:56,180 --> 00:38:59,750 know, nowadays with the invention and we'll get there, 693 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,220 I'm sure as we start talking about what you do, you know, AI 694 00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:05,800 has changed so much and it's made so much more accessible to 695 00:39:05,810 --> 00:39:07,100 students. Yep. 696 00:39:07,150 --> 00:39:10,480 And to people in general. So yeah, the question becomes 697 00:39:10,490 --> 00:39:13,440 like is, is do you really need the post secondary education? 698 00:39:15,050 --> 00:39:16,650 Ohm, I don't have, I have no comment on that. 699 00:39:16,660 --> 00:39:18,210 Yeah. So I. 700 00:39:19,780 --> 00:39:21,670 So I'm. Just trying to be a dad of a 2 701 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,270 year old right now and a six month old. 702 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,470 Exactly. Well and run and run a business 703 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,590 or two. So, so let's talk about 704 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,500 evolution past school or maybe you do you want to talk about 705 00:39:30,510 --> 00:39:32,210 school? Do you want to talk about? 706 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,870 I think that the the interesting part about school when you talk 707 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,430 to me about school is what I ended up getting away with. 708 00:39:39,900 --> 00:39:42,120 I was going to say like were there any foundational elements 709 00:39:42,130 --> 00:39:46,760 that you felt like have have stuck with you from those four 710 00:39:46,770 --> 00:39:49,500 or five years in school? Because I have a feeling that 711 00:39:49,510 --> 00:39:51,480 like the Rome program that they offer. 712 00:39:51,850 --> 00:39:53,900 Is. What essentially set set you up 713 00:39:53,910 --> 00:39:56,580 for one to go to Europe? So I'll just do it. 714 00:39:56,630 --> 00:40:00,460 Long story short or short, to be long, but I got an internship, 715 00:40:00,530 --> 00:40:03,020 first year university for Barton Meyers in Los Angeles. 716 00:40:03,030 --> 00:40:05,860 Barton Myers is one of the most celebrated architects in 70s and 717 00:40:05,870 --> 00:40:07,780 80s in Toronto and he moved to Los Angeles. 718 00:40:07,790 --> 00:40:09,380 So I got an internship there, went there. 719 00:40:11,010 --> 00:40:13,800 My second year of architectural school started on September 720 00:40:13,810 --> 00:40:18,210 11th, 2001, which was a really intense experience. 721 00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:22,330 And that was my first exposure to Robert John Van Pelt, who's a 722 00:40:22,340 --> 00:40:24,970 world renowned professor and writer. 723 00:40:24,980 --> 00:40:29,050 And he invented what you'd call forensic architecture. 724 00:40:29,580 --> 00:40:32,680 And he proved that the concentration camps were 725 00:40:32,690 --> 00:40:35,350 essentially architectural mechanisms for death. 726 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,670 And you had the drawings and the evidence and, and he and, and he 727 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,640 wrote the book on how architecture oppresses and the 728 00:40:43,650 --> 00:40:47,880 power of architecture as, as a political tool, not just to, to, 729 00:40:48,210 --> 00:40:51,580 to be a vehicle to create a Holocaust in that, in that 730 00:40:51,590 --> 00:40:54,620 context, but for other things around the world. 731 00:40:54,630 --> 00:41:01,700 And then you had firms that actually came out of his, his, 732 00:41:01,790 --> 00:41:07,890 his thinking like IRL Weitzman, forensic architect or firm 733 00:41:08,570 --> 00:41:11,380 amazing things. And so Robert John Van Pelt. 734 00:41:11,390 --> 00:41:14,140 Then there was Philip Beasley, who's also a world renowned 735 00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:19,820 architect, thinker, artist, did an internship for him and I 736 00:41:19,830 --> 00:41:24,390 ended up at Jack Diamond's office for a quick stint. 737 00:41:24,460 --> 00:41:27,250 And while I was there, it became clear that I just didn't fit in 738 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,450 and that I didn't belong here anymore. 739 00:41:29,460 --> 00:41:32,670 In fact, I was told that by an architect there who said, Alex, 740 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,270 you just simply don't belong here. 741 00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:41,100 Yeah. And, and, and he said, listen, 742 00:41:41,110 --> 00:41:44,130 you, you need you need to apply to this firm in Italy and you 743 00:41:44,140 --> 00:41:48,030 need to leave Canada and you just this isn't gonna work. 744 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,870 So I think that they probably we're fine. 745 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,000 It was just a four month internship, but if it was an 746 00:41:57,010 --> 00:41:59,540 employment situation I would I'm sure they wouldn't have moved 747 00:41:59,550 --> 00:42:03,460 forward with with keeping me. But I applied to this firm in 748 00:42:03,470 --> 00:42:06,860 Italy called Massimiliano Fuksas, and they gave me a job. 749 00:42:06,870 --> 00:42:09,400 It was crazy. It was like a lark. 750 00:42:09,450 --> 00:42:11,100 And I said, Oh my gosh, this is incredible. 751 00:42:11,110 --> 00:42:15,300 And I went to my father and I said, hey, at least negotiated 752 00:42:15,310 --> 00:42:18,040 €500 a month. It's not going to cut it in 753 00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:21,360 Rome, but I want to move there for the year because Waterloo 754 00:42:21,370 --> 00:42:27,690 has a program in Rome and I have an 8 month coop and I just got a 755 00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:29,380 job at one of the most prestigious architecture firms 756 00:42:29,390 --> 00:42:33,850 in the world and I gotta do this and you're gonna need to support 757 00:42:33,860 --> 00:42:36,440 me, please. You know, it was like. 758 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,880 Any. Any strong case and he was like 759 00:42:39,050 --> 00:42:42,060 good for you. He was like, good for you. 760 00:42:43,380 --> 00:42:46,820 He's like, this is amazing. Yeah, I thought. 761 00:42:46,830 --> 00:42:51,120 I thought because my dad's tough guy, especially around like 762 00:42:51,130 --> 00:42:52,780 asking for money and stuff like that, but you. 763 00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:54,110 Didn't say whether or not he said yes. 764 00:42:54,820 --> 00:42:57,500 Of course, he said he. Said good for you, he said. 765 00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:59,480 Yes, my. Dad did not say good for you. 766 00:42:59,490 --> 00:43:02,900 Ohk OK, OK, OK. I was I was waiting with bated 767 00:43:02,910 --> 00:43:03,850 breath. I'm like what you? 768 00:43:03,860 --> 00:43:07,490 Understand that for me, my father saying good, yeah, like, 769 00:43:07,540 --> 00:43:10,050 good. Like congratulations, that's 770 00:43:10,060 --> 00:43:14,510 like 10 impressed the doctor. Doctor, seriously, he was a very 771 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,360 critical he's he's, he's alive, he's great. 772 00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:19,310 We have a better relationship now than we've ever had. 773 00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:22,400 It's amazing. But he was a really critical 774 00:43:22,410 --> 00:43:26,620 guy, easily frustrated, worked a crazy hour. 775 00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:27,350 Yeah. On call. 776 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,090 These surgeons give their lives just. 777 00:43:29,170 --> 00:43:34,680 It's unbelievable what they do. And so he, he, he gave me this 778 00:43:34,690 --> 00:43:37,980 gift and my mother, obviously they gave me the gift together. 779 00:43:38,290 --> 00:43:41,220 And I wasn't expecting them to say yes because it was gonna 780 00:43:41,230 --> 00:43:44,310 cost a lot of money, but they supported me and they said, 781 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,720 listen, like they didn't know a lot about architectural 782 00:43:47,730 --> 00:43:50,660 education. But I think they they recognize 783 00:43:50,670 --> 00:43:53,560 the opportunity. And my mother had lived all over 784 00:43:53,570 --> 00:43:55,460 the world. My grandfather, who was 14 and 785 00:43:55,470 --> 00:43:58,420 built that business, Yeah, he was able to retire at like, 40, 786 00:43:58,570 --> 00:44:00,370 right? And he took his family all over 787 00:44:00,380 --> 00:44:01,730 the world. My mother lived all over the 788 00:44:01,740 --> 00:44:04,480 world. And what I believe happened was 789 00:44:04,490 --> 00:44:08,340 my mother and father talked. And my mother was like, this is 790 00:44:08,350 --> 00:44:11,830 the biggest gift we can give. You're investing in your child. 791 00:44:12,030 --> 00:44:15,660 I mean, you listen to this now and you go tell me that you 792 00:44:15,670 --> 00:44:17,120 wouldn't invest in your own child. 793 00:44:17,470 --> 00:44:18,520 Like, come on. But. 794 00:44:18,530 --> 00:44:19,700 You don't know that as a child I. 795 00:44:19,710 --> 00:44:21,820 Know that when? You have critical parents, but. 796 00:44:21,830 --> 00:44:24,420 I'm also saying from the standpoint of like, if you like, 797 00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:27,400 as a listener, like, you know, OK, he was given this gift of 798 00:44:27,410 --> 00:44:28,620 like being able to go there. Yeah. 799 00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:32,300 But like, if you're, if you're a parent, if you're ever wanna be 800 00:44:32,310 --> 00:44:35,300 a parent, you go tell me that you wouldn't throw everything 801 00:44:35,310 --> 00:44:37,540 you could of your child not. For no reason. 802 00:44:37,630 --> 00:44:40,120 Wow. Not for no, not for their whims, 803 00:44:40,580 --> 00:44:43,830 100% not either. I'm saying it in the context of 804 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,840 what you just described. They've now found a path that 805 00:44:47,850 --> 00:44:52,190 has been a struggle their entire lives, life, I should say. 806 00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:55,950 And they've arrived at something that is now meaningful in the 807 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,890 truest sense of the of the word. For what? 808 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,910 For what they could do for themselves. 809 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,200 Yeah, you invest. Yeah, of course. 810 00:45:04,330 --> 00:45:07,360 But as a child, you don't know this and it's a lot of no. 811 00:45:08,390 --> 00:45:14,300 So it was yes. And so that became that coop 812 00:45:14,310 --> 00:45:21,500 that that became five years that became meeting an Italian girl 813 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,590 who was extraordinary and falling in love for the first 814 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,430 time and having a job at an amazing place, seeing some of 815 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,020 the most incredible, by the way, this idea that Italians don't 816 00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:33,930 work hard and aren't efficient. They're the hardest working, 817 00:45:33,940 --> 00:45:35,570 most efficient architects in the world. 818 00:45:37,090 --> 00:45:39,540 I'm working on a project in Rome right now myself which is full 819 00:45:39,550 --> 00:45:42,780 circle and that project is one of the most efficient projects 820 00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:47,520 in my office. So the the, the prejudice around 821 00:45:47,530 --> 00:45:49,690 Italian culture and work is such a lie. 822 00:45:50,530 --> 00:45:52,560 They are some of the most sophisticated, hardworking 823 00:45:52,570 --> 00:45:55,230 people in the world. Anyway, so I stayed there for 824 00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:58,000 five years. My girlfriend, we lived in New 825 00:45:58,010 --> 00:46:01,640 York for a term together, came back to Rome. 826 00:46:01,690 --> 00:46:05,720 I started doing art. I did some crazy things in Rome. 827 00:46:06,570 --> 00:46:08,820 I got really interested in politics and aesthetics. 828 00:46:08,830 --> 00:46:13,270 Everything changed in Rome. You go from studying in the 829 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,530 boonies outside of Toronto, in Waterloo. 830 00:46:15,540 --> 00:46:18,760 Now Waterloo is extraordinary for technology and that still 831 00:46:18,770 --> 00:46:22,580 influences me today. And, and it mattered, but you 832 00:46:22,590 --> 00:46:24,380 couldn't learn about architecture staying there. 833 00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:30,680 You had to see these places. You had to live there, and when 834 00:46:30,690 --> 00:46:34,880 you see how Rome feels for the first time, the intimidation of 835 00:46:34,890 --> 00:46:37,560 that place just. I've said this a few times on 836 00:46:37,570 --> 00:46:40,020 here, I've never been to Europe. OHP. 837 00:46:40,030 --> 00:46:41,760 Come on, I know. I don't wanna hear that. 838 00:46:41,810 --> 00:46:43,660 I'm sorry I haven't been to Europe. 839 00:46:43,790 --> 00:46:45,070 Well. You know what's gonna happen 840 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:46,180 next year? What? 841 00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:49,060 Or potentially even this year? I'm gonna going to Europe, 842 00:46:50,890 --> 00:46:51,920 believe me. The kids. 843 00:46:52,310 --> 00:46:53,290 No. OHK. 844 00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:54,600 OK. No, I don't think so. 845 00:46:54,660 --> 00:46:58,680 No, I I, I I had never been. This isn't a matter of me like 846 00:46:58,730 --> 00:47:00,480 intentionally trying to shelter myself from it. 847 00:47:00,490 --> 00:47:03,360 Just never. I never had the opportunity to 848 00:47:03,370 --> 00:47:05,660 go. I've always been working and 849 00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:08,340 never really made it as something that I was gonna go 850 00:47:08,350 --> 00:47:09,040 do. It wasn't. 851 00:47:09,050 --> 00:47:11,600 A priority for you, but you built this beautiful house, so 852 00:47:11,610 --> 00:47:13,580 it's crazy. You're a very sophisticated guy, 853 00:47:13,590 --> 00:47:15,820 but you're not necessarily well traveled, which is kind of an 854 00:47:15,830 --> 00:47:19,060 ironic disconnect, right? Because you usually associate 855 00:47:19,070 --> 00:47:22,340 sophistication with travel when you're the I've. 856 00:47:22,380 --> 00:47:24,720 I've I've seen all of Canada pretty. 857 00:47:24,730 --> 00:47:25,880 Much. But this is an interesting 858 00:47:25,890 --> 00:47:27,740 counterpoint. This is an interesting 859 00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:33,310 counterpoint. But yeah, I I can't wait to talk 860 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:34,530 to you after. I've gone to you. 861 00:47:34,540 --> 00:47:36,450 Let's do. A podcast afterwards and I'll 862 00:47:36,460 --> 00:47:38,250 interview you about your experience in here. 863 00:47:38,540 --> 00:47:41,860 But. You, you, you go from Toronto, 864 00:47:41,870 --> 00:47:43,870 which is a city that makes your eyes bleed. 865 00:47:44,630 --> 00:47:50,190 It's so ugly, like our city is. It suffers from. 866 00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:52,870 Yeah, let's not bash our city right now. 867 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,330 Come on, let's talk about the joy of Rome. 868 00:47:54,700 --> 00:47:56,310 Sorry, I said Toronto and Canada. 869 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:57,810 I started off with saying we're amazing. 870 00:47:57,820 --> 00:47:58,850 I. Know, I know. 871 00:47:58,860 --> 00:47:59,650 I know. I'm allowed to. 872 00:47:59,660 --> 00:48:02,710 Criticize the fact that the architecture here is woefully 873 00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:05,550 under visionary. Fine. 874 00:48:05,660 --> 00:48:08,350 Yes. No, because the problem is is if 875 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:15,350 we are delusional, it's a lie. I can't lie. 876 00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:18,160 I wasn't talking about lying. I was talking about more, 877 00:48:18,270 --> 00:48:20,940 continuing the story about Rome and the experience We're gonna. 878 00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:22,420 Continue Rome. But I wanna talk to you about 879 00:48:22,430 --> 00:48:26,500 this Romans. Romans are argumentative and 880 00:48:26,510 --> 00:48:30,680 they confront things. That's why I learned about them 881 00:48:30,850 --> 00:48:34,600 and they can have these confrontations and arguments and 882 00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:37,600 it's actually how they improve their relationships. 883 00:48:38,430 --> 00:48:40,300 I. Mean, look, I've talked about 884 00:48:40,310 --> 00:48:42,360 this before. You know, I'm a disagreement is 885 00:48:42,370 --> 00:48:43,740 OK. I'm a Jewish guy. 886 00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:47,300 Like, you know, we know this. Yeah, there's a lot of you go 887 00:48:47,310 --> 00:48:51,990 into a lot of debate in Judaism. Yes, you do you. 888 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,150 I know. And was debate. 889 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,960 It's happening right now, Yeah. Well, I think that's a beautiful 890 00:48:55,970 --> 00:48:58,690 part about Jewish culture. It's also, I think it's just a 891 00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:00,420 common thing that ancient cultures have. 892 00:49:01,150 --> 00:49:05,220 Ancient cultures. Conflict is a natural form of 893 00:49:05,230 --> 00:49:06,520 communication. Yeah. 894 00:49:06,580 --> 00:49:09,060 And you don't hate each other after conflict. 895 00:49:09,070 --> 00:49:11,910 You. You actually learn more about 896 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:17,470 each other and this idea of of apology of the Canadian 897 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:21,470 consistent just the the constant apologies for having an opinion 898 00:49:21,540 --> 00:49:26,900 or or it's it's it's unsupportable, but anyway. 899 00:49:27,010 --> 00:49:29,120 You talk about like philosophers and stuff like that, you know, 900 00:49:29,130 --> 00:49:33,970 and like the the millennia, the lineage of debate and stuff. 901 00:49:33,980 --> 00:49:37,450 And most of these guys you talk about, you know, thousands of 902 00:49:37,460 --> 00:49:39,370 years ago, they were just smoking opium and coming up with 903 00:49:39,380 --> 00:49:41,190 stuff. Maybe they were. 904 00:49:41,260 --> 00:49:42,590 I don't have I don't. I don't, I don't. 905 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,130 I don't have we. Weren't around, we don't know 906 00:49:44,140 --> 00:49:47,660 that for sure, but I mean it's highly likely it's. 907 00:49:47,670 --> 00:49:49,570 Possible. But sorry, back to Rome. 908 00:49:49,580 --> 00:49:54,070 Yes. So Rome changed my life in every 909 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,070 way. It changed my life from a 910 00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,170 relational perspective. It changed my life 911 00:49:59,180 --> 00:50:02,030 professionally, changed my life academically. 912 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:07,820 It changed my life and how I saw the world and that was really 913 00:50:07,830 --> 00:50:14,740 important and went to school there, was able to do courses 914 00:50:14,750 --> 00:50:17,580 there. Waterloo actually created the 915 00:50:17,590 --> 00:50:20,400 first class of master students there. 916 00:50:20,550 --> 00:50:25,160 When I moved to Rome originally, I was, I was really, really 917 00:50:25,170 --> 00:50:32,020 lucky that the Canadian Preto Rome still existed and they had 918 00:50:32,030 --> 00:50:34,360 an apartment. And I stayed in this apartment 919 00:50:34,370 --> 00:50:38,350 and had all these sort of relics of design from some of the most 920 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,950 storied Canadian architects that had won this and had designed 921 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,540 the furniture of the bed that it was kind of this in the end, a 922 00:50:44,550 --> 00:50:47,510 bit of a dingy apartment, but it was right in the centre of Rome 923 00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:53,090 and interested every and it was, it was just amazing. 924 00:50:53,130 --> 00:50:59,140 It was and that was 2003. And yet I have to understand 925 00:50:59,150 --> 00:51:03,090 that when you go to Europe, when you go for the first time, it's 926 00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:06,730 really different now When, when I lived in Rome, that was the 927 00:51:06,740 --> 00:51:08,570 last. My guess is I experienced the 928 00:51:08,580 --> 00:51:16,740 last gasp of what was. That's all before Rome was 929 00:51:17,140 --> 00:51:22,130 crowded, but Italy is now overrun. 930 00:51:23,830 --> 00:51:28,340 When I lived in Rome, you walked into Saint Peters. 931 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,350 There was no lineup. You walked into the pantheon. 932 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,960 There was no ticket. These these places were open and 933 00:51:37,970 --> 00:51:40,940 there was a map made of Rome called the Nolli map. 934 00:51:41,270 --> 00:51:43,540 It's this famous drawing that a lot of people, they don't 935 00:51:43,550 --> 00:51:45,590 realize it's by Noli. It's not pure and easy, but it 936 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:50,140 looks like a pureness. And this map was about showing 937 00:51:50,150 --> 00:51:55,600 the the incredible volume of space in Rome that is public. 938 00:51:56,350 --> 00:52:00,000 So in that map, it's the dark, it's figure ground. 939 00:52:00,010 --> 00:52:04,370 So the dark Gray ink is private, the white is public. 940 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,990 And so you see all these churches and spaces and it told 941 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,200 you what you could go visit. And it is so. 942 00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:19,190 It is so astonishing what I walked into the places that I 943 00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:23,520 just stumbled into and it's now it's now closed. 944 00:52:24,860 --> 00:52:29,470 Tickets, please. And, and that will be an 945 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:34,250 interesting experience for you because it's it's, it's now an 946 00:52:34,260 --> 00:52:36,570 economy of tourism. And yeah, but it is so 947 00:52:36,580 --> 00:52:42,290 extraordinary, that city, Yeah. I'm also, I mean, look, I'm also 948 00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:44,100 going to be able to go and experience things a little bit 949 00:52:44,110 --> 00:52:46,050 differently. I think next time I start doing 950 00:52:46,060 --> 00:52:48,390 some of these travels cause now started to meet people in these 951 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,010 places, interview them. And I have lots of people 952 00:52:52,020 --> 00:52:54,380 telling me like, come and I'll like I'll take you through the 953 00:52:54,390 --> 00:52:57,250 city and I'll show you stuff like no one gets to see. 954 00:52:57,460 --> 00:53:01,190 So like, yeah. That's how you have to see 955 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,110 things now. I didn't have it when I moved to 956 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,560 Rome. I didn't know a single person 957 00:53:04,570 --> 00:53:07,670 after I started a fuss's office. And you go there and it's like, 958 00:53:07,810 --> 00:53:10,450 I worked at these famous architecture firms in Canada, 959 00:53:10,460 --> 00:53:13,100 United States. Those places couldn't shine a 960 00:53:13,110 --> 00:53:17,770 light to this guy like this studio was like I had entered 961 00:53:17,820 --> 00:53:19,950 hallowed ground. Right it. 962 00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,360 Was intimidating and they were doing things and making things 963 00:53:23,370 --> 00:53:27,660 and I was, I mean, they're impressive to this day, but I'm 964 00:53:27,670 --> 00:53:34,020 just saying like I, I had my, I had my ESS handed to me. 965 00:53:34,300 --> 00:53:37,740 It was and I started, I remember called my parents on like Week 2 966 00:53:39,350 --> 00:53:41,640 because you just working so hard, all nighters, all this 967 00:53:41,650 --> 00:53:44,140 stuff doing the things that you don't want to do but have to do. 968 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,180 And I started crying cause I was just, I can't speak Italian. 969 00:53:48,190 --> 00:53:50,210 They only speak Italian. Nobody speaks English. 970 00:53:50,220 --> 00:53:52,740 They really didn't they They spoke barely any English bitch. 971 00:53:52,750 --> 00:53:54,080 They did, they just didn't wanna do it. 972 00:53:55,170 --> 00:53:58,040 No, this was 25 years ago. They didn't. 973 00:53:58,950 --> 00:54:04,110 Not you. You walk out the door, the door 974 00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,190 closes, and I'll start talking. Nobody. 975 00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:08,540 Asked me to start helping. There were the only people who 976 00:54:08,550 --> 00:54:09,990 spoke fluent English. There were German. 977 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,270 OK. And they're and Germany, they 978 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:13,920 created that. They have extraordinary 979 00:54:13,930 --> 00:54:16,930 architecture schools in Germany and Switzerland to this day. 980 00:54:18,700 --> 00:54:23,530 Stuart Gart and Atahan there there are two of the top five 981 00:54:23,540 --> 00:54:26,970 schools in the world like and, and we're back then. 982 00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:31,660 So the German spoke English and I know that I that he didn't 983 00:54:31,670 --> 00:54:34,090 speak English because when they did competitions and they had to 984 00:54:34,100 --> 00:54:36,760 do an English submission. I ended up doing a bunch of 985 00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:39,190 these while I was there. Hey, you're the person who 986 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,040 speaks English. Can you do this, this 987 00:54:43,050 --> 00:54:44,660 competition to English? Can you help us? 988 00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,690 And I so I I was crying. I was just like, I can't speak 989 00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:51,410 it die and I don't know anybody here. 990 00:54:51,420 --> 00:54:54,650 I feel so alone. Did you pick it up overtime? 991 00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,110 OHS so slowly it was a brutal. I actually learned more Italian 992 00:54:59,460 --> 00:55:02,690 because I kept my phone in Italian and did Rosetta Stone. 993 00:55:02,700 --> 00:55:06,070 After I left my girlfriend in Italy, she refused to speak in 994 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,430 Italian to me. I had a funny story when I when 995 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,940 that's not really PC. I can tell you afterwards, but 996 00:55:12,950 --> 00:55:14,560 basically. I'll leave it there. 997 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:19,160 But basically, like in a nutshell, I came from Canada, I 998 00:55:19,170 --> 00:55:22,380 knew some French with a Quebecois accent, and I was 999 00:55:22,390 --> 00:55:27,670 trying to speak Italian but emulating my girlfriend's voice 1000 00:55:28,300 --> 00:55:33,200 and not knowing that an Italian the way you sound is very gender 1001 00:55:33,450 --> 00:55:36,070 specific. This is the Latin language. 1002 00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,850 They're very gender specific and Rome is a very gender focused 1003 00:55:41,220 --> 00:55:45,130 dialect, right? It's not a dialect, but Roman, 1004 00:55:45,460 --> 00:55:49,060 Roman, Italian is. It's beautiful in that sense 1005 00:55:49,070 --> 00:55:52,530 that differences in in gender, yeah, in language. 1006 00:55:52,540 --> 00:55:55,030 But you can imagine how I sound it. 1007 00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,790 I didn't. She was like, it's like 1008 00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:00,960 listening. Don't do that. 1009 00:56:01,900 --> 00:56:03,070 Don't do that. Don't do that. 1010 00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:06,010 You teach me English and I taught her English. 1011 00:56:07,660 --> 00:56:13,840 What was? What was one of the rarefied air 1012 00:56:14,130 --> 00:56:17,440 things that you got to experience living there for five 1013 00:56:17,450 --> 00:56:19,260 years? It's one person in the culture I 1014 00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:21,400 know so many think. Think of a couple of them like, 1015 00:56:21,410 --> 00:56:24,740 you know, I was in rare space walking, you know, walking down 1016 00:56:26,270 --> 00:56:29,420 walking down an alleyway to a coffee shop that really only the 1017 00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:32,910 locals know about or the. The, the, the things that I 1018 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:39,200 remember the most were there's, there's probably like 5-5 1019 00:56:39,210 --> 00:56:41,990 experiences I had in Italy, OK, between things that I 1020 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,580 experienced and things that I did fabric. 1021 00:56:43,590 --> 00:56:46,480 Fabricator space like I'll. Tell you about the five things. 1022 00:56:46,490 --> 00:56:51,920 OK, so one I already told you about the job. 1023 00:56:51,930 --> 00:56:54,300 So that was and it truly is in the architecture world. 1024 00:56:54,600 --> 00:57:01,570 What I had there was amazing. And then, uh, I came home to my 1025 00:57:01,580 --> 00:57:03,600 apartment having been broken into. 1026 00:57:05,290 --> 00:57:08,520 It's a funny story. My apartment was broken into by 1027 00:57:08,530 --> 00:57:10,890 gypsies, OK. And they took anything with the 1028 00:57:10,900 --> 00:57:14,090 circuit. I came home late at night from 1029 00:57:14,260 --> 00:57:16,860 being out and any electronic was gone. 1030 00:57:16,870 --> 00:57:19,330 So they had stolen my laptop. Yeah, stolen everything. 1031 00:57:19,340 --> 00:57:24,790 So I had to redraw my thesis work and it was, it was 1032 00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:27,160 interesting, like Toronto is going through this now. 1033 00:57:27,950 --> 00:57:30,260 And that's just what I learned is that that's just part of 1034 00:57:30,270 --> 00:57:34,610 Roman culture. That's if you don't make sure 1035 00:57:34,620 --> 00:57:37,750 your space is secure, it will. You know, you can get robbed. 1036 00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:44,670 And it was interesting that I learned the hard way, but fool 1037 00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,870 me twice. So So then couple years later 1038 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,600 when I was doing my masters, they broke into the studios at 1039 00:57:50,610 --> 00:57:54,110 the room studios for the University of Waterloo and they 1040 00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,810 stole everybody's laptop. They they dressed up as HVAC 1041 00:57:56,820 --> 00:57:58,450 consultants. Wow, yeah. 1042 00:57:58,460 --> 00:58:00,620 Yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Move. 1043 00:58:01,550 --> 00:58:04,580 And so I said, I bet you they're taking these to the Port 1044 00:58:04,590 --> 00:58:07,980 Deportes, they're gonna sell used laptops and they're gonna 1045 00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:09,320 take our stuff to the Porta Portese. 1046 00:58:10,050 --> 00:58:12,370 And it was a Saturday morning when everything got stolen. 1047 00:58:12,380 --> 00:58:14,700 And I was like, that's when the Porta Portese market, everything 1048 00:58:14,710 --> 00:58:15,870 is there. So I was, I thought I was 1049 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,150 brilliant. So I went to the Porto Portese 1050 00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,690 market and I found like the meanest looking gypsy that was 1051 00:58:21,700 --> 00:58:23,750 standing around that I'd ever seen that looked like he was 1052 00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,270 scouting. And I said where? 1053 00:58:27,780 --> 00:58:32,810 Aerobatic Dobsonian laptop rubati and he looked like I 1054 00:58:32,860 --> 00:58:33,770 like. Basically what I'm saying is 1055 00:58:33,780 --> 00:58:37,310 where are the stolen laptops? And he looked at me like I was 1056 00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,440 like no, no, no devil check out. I won't. 1057 00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:44,410 It was like I need to find the specific laptop you take me and 1058 00:58:44,420 --> 00:58:47,470 this guy actually took me to where all of the laptops were 1059 00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:48,440 come. On I. 1060 00:58:48,450 --> 00:58:50,600 Swear to God this is a great story. 1061 00:58:50,650 --> 00:58:53,120 So I go to the part where the laptops are and, and my 1062 00:58:53,130 --> 00:58:56,800 classmate, you know, she, she was really sad she lost her 1063 00:58:56,810 --> 00:58:58,240 laptop too. And I knew what they looked 1064 00:58:58,250 --> 00:59:02,190 like. And so I, I went with a few €100 1065 00:59:03,390 --> 00:59:06,990 and I found our laptops and I was like, I, I was like, I felt 1066 00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:08,920 like a genius. I was the smartest person in the 1067 00:59:08,930 --> 00:59:11,040 world. And I'm like, I'm checking all 1068 00:59:11,050 --> 00:59:14,020 the laptops as if I don't care. Like, I don't want to make it 1069 00:59:14,030 --> 00:59:15,630 look like I want one more than the other. 1070 00:59:15,700 --> 00:59:18,070 Yeah. And I was like, I need a few 1071 00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:19,610 laptops. Will you give me a deal? 1072 00:59:19,620 --> 00:59:22,590 But I tried to make it out like they probably knew exactly who I 1073 00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,370 was anyway. So I find my laptop. 1074 00:59:25,380 --> 00:59:28,650 I find the other laptop. They haven't wiped them, but I, 1075 00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,290 I didn't log in or anything like that and I was like, I want 1076 00:59:31,300 --> 00:59:36,580 these two and I ended up negotiating €250 for the two 1077 00:59:36,590 --> 00:59:40,020 laptops and they threw in a, a camera, stolen camera. 1078 00:59:41,700 --> 00:59:45,230 Someone else's photos on it. And and two laptop and a laptop 1079 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:49,740 bag or two laptop bags, sorry. You upgrade your laptop back, 1080 00:59:49,810 --> 00:59:51,380 yeah. Yeah, I got laptop bags and a 1081 00:59:51,390 --> 00:59:53,340 camera, was saying. Did you upgrade like you? 1082 00:59:53,350 --> 00:59:54,780 You might have had one when it started. 1083 00:59:54,790 --> 00:59:56,170 I didn't have one. I'll take the leather. 1084 00:59:56,180 --> 00:59:58,380 No these. Were like like I thought I was 1085 00:59:58,390 --> 01:00:04,420 the smartest person anyways so. I go back to the studio, I give 1086 01:00:04,430 --> 01:00:06,060 them €250. I go back to the studio. 1087 01:00:06,070 --> 01:00:09,330 I remember this till this day, every single moment. 1088 01:00:09,460 --> 01:00:13,660 And I go back to the studio and we we opened the laptop bags and 1089 01:00:13,670 --> 01:00:20,970 it was boxes of salt and I was like, I was like, well they may 1090 01:00:20,980 --> 01:00:23,070 have gotten away with this one but I saw them put the laptop in 1091 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,530 this one. So it must be 2 bucks, 2 bag, 2 1092 01:00:25,540 --> 01:00:31,510 laptop boxes, bags of salt. And I, I was like not even the 1093 01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,920 camera was there and I was like, that was the best magic trick I 1094 01:00:34,930 --> 01:00:38,770 ever seen in my life. They it was the best magic trick 1095 01:00:38,820 --> 01:00:43,610 I've ever seen in my life. I don't know how they did it in 1096 01:00:43,620 --> 01:00:48,790 front of me, but it was I, I'm, I go over in my mind cause it's 1097 01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:53,890 so vivid magic anyway, so fascinating. 1098 01:00:53,900 --> 01:00:59,860 So that and then I traveled to Sicily with my girlfriend at the 1099 01:00:59,870 --> 01:01:08,980 time and went to a place called Decreto by Buri, which is in a 1100 01:01:08,990 --> 01:01:11,390 city that is called Gibellina, OK. 1101 01:01:11,470 --> 01:01:14,800 And this city was destroyed by an earthquake. 1102 01:01:14,990 --> 01:01:19,820 And in the 60's the new mayor there created essentially a tomb 1103 01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:24,260 with this artist Alberto Burri. And they made this amazing thing 1104 01:01:24,270 --> 01:01:26,660 called the Creto. It's now everybody in the world 1105 01:01:26,670 --> 01:01:29,000 talks about the Credo now as like, I've been there. 1106 01:01:29,250 --> 01:01:31,620 I've been there like 3 times. You know, it's in the middle of 1107 01:01:31,630 --> 01:01:34,520 nowhere in Sicily, but an hour and a half two hour drive from 1108 01:01:34,530 --> 01:01:38,640 Palermo. And it is one of the most on 1109 01:01:38,650 --> 01:01:42,600 inspiring experiences in the world architecturally, 1110 01:01:43,250 --> 01:01:48,030 philosophically, culturally, every imagine going into a town 1111 01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:52,450 and the streets are everything is concrete. 1112 01:01:52,500 --> 01:01:54,530 The blocks that fell, everything is covered. 1113 01:01:54,540 --> 01:01:58,050 And so it's like it's like a, you know, in the desert has 1114 01:01:58,060 --> 01:02:01,310 water on it and it cracks into the that's what they did. 1115 01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,270 They entombed everything. And so it looked. 1116 01:02:03,380 --> 01:02:07,430 It looks to this day like concrete cracks, like the desert 1117 01:02:07,570 --> 01:02:11,590 sand or mud has has dried too quickly after a flood. 1118 01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:15,390 And you get this incredible cracking and you're walking it. 1119 01:02:15,460 --> 01:02:18,380 It's a scale of a person. It's unbelievable. 1120 01:02:18,530 --> 01:02:20,300 It's in the middle of nowhere in Palermo. 1121 01:02:21,940 --> 01:02:27,240 And then I had the experience of, of, of meeting some of the 1122 01:02:27,250 --> 01:02:31,790 greatest artists alive in Italy. George Armani, Antonella 1123 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:39,620 Venditti, Incredible people. Joseph Kosuth, He's American, 1124 01:02:39,630 --> 01:02:46,690 but he was living in in Rome, just reverie revered people in. 1125 01:02:46,780 --> 01:02:52,550 In what context? A Really intimate contacts. 1126 01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,200 Cool. Really intimate special things 1127 01:02:56,210 --> 01:03:04,410 that Armani called me cannabis cannabis Canada is a Canada is a 1128 01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,870 you know it was it was it was it was beautiful, actually cool. 1129 01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:14,040 And so I I got to meet Titans of all sorts of different 1130 01:03:14,050 --> 01:03:14,980 industries. Yeah. 1131 01:03:15,030 --> 01:03:19,490 And in the Italian version of these people is larger than 1132 01:03:19,500 --> 01:03:20,930 life. If, if, if you can imagine 1133 01:03:20,940 --> 01:03:23,180 Canadian American celebrities being larger than life. 1134 01:03:23,190 --> 01:03:26,620 The Italians do it better than anybody, right? 1135 01:03:26,970 --> 01:03:31,780 And these guys were, I mean, it was incredible. 1136 01:03:31,790 --> 01:03:35,930 And then a couple of things that I did there, I became very 1137 01:03:35,940 --> 01:03:38,870 interested in culture and how architecture and politics and 1138 01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:42,960 culture navigate each other. It wasn't like I was going to 1139 01:03:42,970 --> 01:03:44,830 get a big building and Commission in Rome. 1140 01:03:45,490 --> 01:03:50,560 And I said, well, how can I express my design and art and 1141 01:03:50,610 --> 01:03:52,390 ideas if I can't build a building? 1142 01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:57,080 And so I just was inspired by this. 1143 01:03:57,090 --> 01:03:59,120 I started to really get interested in politics and I 1144 01:03:59,130 --> 01:04:04,590 think it's because Italians talk about politics all the time and 1145 01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:08,270 they're so aesthetic about it because everything in Italy is 1146 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:10,390 about beauty. It's about other things too, but 1147 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:15,140 beauty is really important there and they call it the sprezzatura 1148 01:04:15,150 --> 01:04:18,370 or bellezza. It's very important part of 1149 01:04:18,380 --> 01:04:20,880 their culture and and the world benefits from that. 1150 01:04:24,010 --> 01:04:27,570 They would probably say that, you know, there's a higher 1151 01:04:27,580 --> 01:04:29,580 degree of closeness to objective beauty. 1152 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:33,510 You know, they're very, they're rare opinion about these things, 1153 01:04:33,820 --> 01:04:38,070 form and aesthetics. But there was an election for 1154 01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:42,000 the mayor of Rome. And as a Jewish kid from 1155 01:04:42,010 --> 01:04:45,840 Toronto, I was appalled that basically a fascist and avowed 1156 01:04:45,850 --> 01:04:49,860 fascist named George Alemanno was going to win the mayoralty. 1157 01:04:49,930 --> 01:04:53,280 And this really amazing guy who was the minister of culture was 1158 01:04:53,290 --> 01:04:56,520 going against him and he lost somehow. 1159 01:04:56,910 --> 01:05:01,970 And I just couldn't believe that the Romans had anyway, there 1160 01:05:01,980 --> 01:05:04,990 wasn't a majority. And in Rome, you have to win a 1161 01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:06,780 majority. It's not like Toronto where you 1162 01:05:06,790 --> 01:05:11,120 can have a bunch of losers take the vote and split it and then 1163 01:05:11,130 --> 01:05:14,410 the guy who gets 25% or 35% wins. 1164 01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,910 They do runoffs. They do a runoff until you get 1165 01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:20,070 51%. That's democracy. 1166 01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,870 What happens in this city isn't that's not a democracy. 1167 01:05:24,190 --> 01:05:28,780 Like what we do here is wrong. So segue to politics. 1168 01:05:29,610 --> 01:05:31,740 I was like, you know what? If no one's gonna run against 1169 01:05:31,750 --> 01:05:34,960 him and no one was running against him in the runoff, the 1170 01:05:34,970 --> 01:05:37,180 other guy in the Ministry of Culture was so humiliated and so 1171 01:05:37,190 --> 01:05:39,670 angry that he didn't win that he said right. 1172 01:05:39,870 --> 01:05:42,340 No, no, no. You get what you deserve. 1173 01:05:42,650 --> 01:05:45,090 That's how like, principled these Italians are, right? 1174 01:05:46,140 --> 01:05:51,280 And I created a fake political candidate and I found out that 1175 01:05:51,330 --> 01:05:55,900 in Rome, the way people in 2003, there wasn't social media. 1176 01:05:56,160 --> 01:05:58,740 There was either TV or billboards, right? 1177 01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,220 And the state subsidized political billboards. 1178 01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,010 To me, you made-up and. I made-up a candidate. 1179 01:06:07,530 --> 01:06:09,800 So posters. I designed them. 1180 01:06:09,810 --> 01:06:11,810 I made-up My, my, I, I. They were. 1181 01:06:11,930 --> 01:06:13,780 So I was the left. I was paint. 1182 01:06:13,790 --> 01:06:15,960 I was, I was young, so of course I was left wing. 1183 01:06:15,970 --> 01:06:20,720 Yeah. And I, I basically took a 1184 01:06:20,730 --> 01:06:24,290 photograph of myself kind of in the same pose that Lennon, you 1185 01:06:24,300 --> 01:06:27,860 know, that red sort of graphic, hyper graphic, that, that 1186 01:06:27,870 --> 01:06:30,210 brutalist graphic, yeah, Soviet graphic. 1187 01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:38,790 And I said it said protest basically vote a straniero vote 1188 01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:43,530 for the stranger Alexander Josephson, right? 1189 01:06:43,700 --> 01:06:48,480 And I had 4 foot by 6 foot posters. 1190 01:06:48,490 --> 01:06:53,150 I had giant ones like that. You had to put a bunch up and 1191 01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,730 you use glue on billboards, and you could hire people to do 1192 01:06:56,740 --> 01:06:58,710 that. But the posters cost, instead of 1193 01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:03,060 something that would cost like, you know, $100 here, it was 1194 01:07:03,070 --> 01:07:06,230 subsidized. So the cost of, say, I think it 1195 01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,460 was hundreds or thousands of posters. 1196 01:07:08,470 --> 01:07:13,450 It was like hundreds of dollars. We're like $1000 or something. 1197 01:07:13,500 --> 01:07:18,770 And yeah, I'm not joking. And and so then I hired gypsies 1198 01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:20,530 to help me put them up all over the place. 1199 01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:24,150 And I have photographs of these. And I remember, like, people who 1200 01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:26,070 knew me, they were like, man, you're crazy. 1201 01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,840 Man, you're crazy. My girlfriend's father was like, 1202 01:07:29,850 --> 01:07:33,820 you're out there. But he liked it, and I think it 1203 01:07:33,830 --> 01:07:35,370 was sort of. It's hilarious. 1204 01:07:35,380 --> 01:07:37,230 Yeah. Yeah. 1205 01:07:37,350 --> 01:07:39,320 So. So what led you away from there? 1206 01:07:39,330 --> 01:07:42,950 What led you well? So what happened was the the 1207 01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,140 relationship ranch course. I got my masters degree in Rome 1208 01:07:46,530 --> 01:07:51,580 and basically we together, we won the Van Allen Institute 1209 01:07:51,590 --> 01:07:53,570 Prize. It was the fellowship to go to 1210 01:07:53,580 --> 01:07:57,440 New York and our relationship was really on the outs at that 1211 01:07:57,450 --> 01:08:00,660 point. And I got a sense of what 1212 01:08:00,670 --> 01:08:06,620 betrayal is like, real betrayal, OK, And our relationship was on 1213 01:08:06,630 --> 01:08:09,040 the outs, but we did this fellowship together and went to 1214 01:08:09,050 --> 01:08:11,240 New York. It was 2008, so the financial 1215 01:08:11,250 --> 01:08:16,220 crisis was alive, alive. And then in 2009 we went to New 1216 01:08:16,229 --> 01:08:18,890 York. And so when, when crises erupt 1217 01:08:18,899 --> 01:08:21,359 around the world, it affects the relationships in the end. 1218 01:08:21,450 --> 01:08:25,260 And this affected our relationship and, but we went, 1219 01:08:25,460 --> 01:08:29,870 we did this fellowship together and not as a couple anymore, but 1220 01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,850 as collaborators. Yep. 1221 01:08:32,899 --> 01:08:39,430 And what we did was next level. We we projected a design 1222 01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:43,399 constitution on the side of the UN building with a giant 1223 01:08:43,410 --> 01:08:48,479 projector and a gas generator in the back of a car parked on an 1224 01:08:48,490 --> 01:08:51,290 off ramp. Crazy it. 1225 01:08:51,300 --> 01:08:55,380 Was crazy you would today I'm sure I would have been arrested 1226 01:08:55,390 --> 01:08:58,000 and put in jail sure like it would have been no question. 1227 01:08:58,010 --> 01:09:03,740 But it was 2008, 2009 2000 sorry was that was 2009 slash 10. 1228 01:09:03,750 --> 01:09:11,310 So people were more concerned about other things and you could 1229 01:09:11,319 --> 01:09:12,510 probably get away with a lot more. 1230 01:09:12,660 --> 01:09:13,260 I don't. I don't know. 1231 01:09:13,270 --> 01:09:15,640 Maybe not, but I don't. Know man, I look what people get 1232 01:09:15,649 --> 01:09:17,710 away with me that's. How I left Rome though there's a 1233 01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:20,680 financial crisis I one this fellowship. 1234 01:09:20,689 --> 01:09:21,490 Opportunity. Good. 1235 01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:23,649 Opportunity. And then the question was, do 1236 01:09:23,660 --> 01:09:27,500 you staying in New York? The I mean, New York thought the 1237 01:09:27,510 --> 01:09:29,920 sky was falling when the financial crisis happened, 1238 01:09:29,930 --> 01:09:31,930 everybody moved out. You could rent a place in Soho 1239 01:09:31,939 --> 01:09:35,840 where we where I rented a place. And yeah, it was unbelievable. 1240 01:09:36,500 --> 01:09:39,930 And I was kind of in this bubble and, and Canada was in this 1241 01:09:39,939 --> 01:09:42,410 bubble too, cause we didn't really experience the financial 1242 01:09:42,420 --> 01:09:46,700 crisis the same way that Italy and other countries, United 1243 01:09:46,710 --> 01:09:49,700 States experienced it. Canada kind of was a bit of a 1244 01:09:49,710 --> 01:09:50,880 blip. There were some projects that 1245 01:09:50,890 --> 01:09:52,750 were affected, some people were obviously affected. 1246 01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:57,100 But you know, Canada came out of that thinking like, oh, we're, 1247 01:09:57,230 --> 01:10:04,640 we're, we're better than now. And that arrogance exists today. 1248 01:10:05,750 --> 01:10:08,640 That arrogance is what's created this economy here. 1249 01:10:09,730 --> 01:10:12,580 That lack of yeah, you, you, you. 1250 01:10:12,650 --> 01:10:16,530 You accidentally didn't get hit with the financial crisis 1251 01:10:16,540 --> 01:10:19,470 because you're so risk averse and you're so risk managed and 1252 01:10:19,480 --> 01:10:22,540 you're so under leveraged comparatively at the time that 1253 01:10:22,550 --> 01:10:26,240 you you got away, right? But what? 1254 01:10:26,310 --> 01:10:29,500 What? What allowed you to do that? 1255 01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:35,260 Incredible conservativism in, in terms of a business culture, 1256 01:10:35,270 --> 01:10:37,410 incredible. Incumbency, right? 1257 01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:41,410 Incredible. We like to think of ourselves in 1258 01:10:41,420 --> 01:10:43,530 this country as the most progressive place in the world 1259 01:10:43,540 --> 01:10:46,580 and all these things. But fundamentally, the other 1260 01:10:46,590 --> 01:10:50,370 side of that coin is it comes with this incredible provincial 1261 01:10:50,380 --> 01:10:53,010 hangover. Don't be a tall poppy and stick 1262 01:10:53,020 --> 01:10:54,750 out. Don't take financial risks. 1263 01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:59,540 Don't invest in innovation. Regulate the hell in Bureau. 1264 01:10:59,950 --> 01:11:03,060 Create bureaucracies the size of Mount Everest. 1265 01:11:03,070 --> 01:11:06,490 Talk about regulate sound building codes that are the 1266 01:11:06,500 --> 01:11:10,100 worst building codes in the world that people use in places 1267 01:11:10,110 --> 01:11:12,140 where they can't afford to write a business building code, they 1268 01:11:12,150 --> 01:11:16,180 adopt the Ontario building code. It's like, anyway, so that's why 1269 01:11:16,190 --> 01:11:17,640 we left. But that's why I went back to 1270 01:11:17,650 --> 01:11:19,710 Toronto, because I was like, oh, there's a building boom here. 1271 01:11:21,260 --> 01:11:23,840 And that was why I left New York, OK? 1272 01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:27,130 And so you, you left on your own. 1273 01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:32,620 Yes, came, came back here and did you find partisans right 1274 01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:35,430 away? No. 1275 01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:39,250 So I got to go back in time while I was in Rome and when I 1276 01:11:39,260 --> 01:11:42,930 won the New York Prize Fellowship, I also completed my 1277 01:11:42,940 --> 01:11:46,830 thesis, which I think is probably one of the reasons. 1278 01:11:47,460 --> 01:11:51,930 Like basically when I was in Rome, you're just confronted 1279 01:11:51,940 --> 01:11:56,280 with not just the history but also religion. 1280 01:11:57,310 --> 01:12:03,890 And having had studio start on September 11th, 2001, I was 1281 01:12:03,900 --> 01:12:05,510 naturally really curious about Islam. 1282 01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:11,630 We had wars, War on Terror and I was living in this in, in Ohe 1283 01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:13,620 and the the fifth thing was the Pope dying. 1284 01:12:13,710 --> 01:12:21,280 I was in Rome for John Paul's death and on an urban scale I 1285 01:12:21,290 --> 01:12:25,800 can tell you there is nothing. There's probably only the Kumba 1286 01:12:25,810 --> 01:12:31,220 Mela in India that comes close, or the Hodge to tell you what 1287 01:12:31,230 --> 01:12:34,680 it's like. When the Pope died in Rome and 1288 01:12:34,690 --> 01:12:36,740 John Paul was a special Pope, he. 1289 01:12:36,790 --> 01:12:39,100 He he was born in the same village as my grandfather. 1290 01:12:39,170 --> 01:12:40,320 They. Go in Poland, right? 1291 01:12:40,410 --> 01:12:43,710 Yeah, that's another thing altogether. 1292 01:12:44,460 --> 01:12:48,270 But as a Jew, I was like, these are the Abrahamic religions, 1293 01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:51,990 Like, they're one and the same. And while I was in Rome, this 1294 01:12:52,220 --> 01:12:55,470 again, Religion, politics, culture. 1295 01:12:55,540 --> 01:12:58,330 Yeah, architecture. Architecture is obsessed with 1296 01:12:59,100 --> 01:13:02,310 religion. Building sanctuaries, building 1297 01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,530 tombs. These are the most important 1298 01:13:05,540 --> 01:13:07,230 projects in architectural history. 1299 01:13:07,300 --> 01:13:10,250 Tombs and churches and sanctuaries and tombs. 1300 01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:14,980 Tombs and and places of worship. They're not office buildings, 1301 01:13:15,070 --> 01:13:16,280 you know. Museums. 1302 01:13:17,090 --> 01:13:20,560 Sure, museums, but I guess the. Same kind of thing. 1303 01:13:20,570 --> 01:13:25,300 I, I guess museums, a lot of the now we're obsessed with museums, 1304 01:13:25,310 --> 01:13:27,470 right? Because religion has gone the 1305 01:13:27,480 --> 01:13:33,680 way of the dodo. But um, and I, I, I did a thesis 1306 01:13:33,690 --> 01:13:37,850 where I built, I, I always noticed in Toronto that the 1307 01:13:37,940 --> 01:13:40,690 Queens Park had a menorah and a Christmas tree. 1308 01:13:41,650 --> 01:13:43,980 And it comes full circle today because I can also tell you I 1309 01:13:43,990 --> 01:13:46,980 can announce a project we won, but there was never anything for 1310 01:13:46,990 --> 01:13:48,640 Islam. It just seemed like I wanted to 1311 01:13:48,650 --> 01:13:50,940 hate on hate on Islam. And so I did this thesis that 1312 01:13:50,950 --> 01:13:54,340 was an examination of the Abrahamic religions. 1313 01:13:54,350 --> 01:13:58,940 We are one Islam, Judaism and Catholic, it's one. 1314 01:13:59,910 --> 01:14:02,870 It's the same father borrowed texts. 1315 01:14:03,320 --> 01:14:09,660 I mean, I don't like most of the written word of these religions 1316 01:14:09,670 --> 01:14:11,520 in all three contexts. Yeah. 1317 01:14:11,970 --> 01:14:14,930 And you can study the different authors in each of these if 1318 01:14:14,940 --> 01:14:18,690 you're a scholar. These are not, these are not 1319 01:14:18,700 --> 01:14:21,630 these pure writings. They're not. 1320 01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,350 Yeah. Just like the idea that there's 1321 01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:26,680 this puritanical approach to these writings is ridiculous 1322 01:14:26,690 --> 01:14:30,620 because they're not pure. They're not pure, they're 1323 01:14:30,630 --> 01:14:35,180 written by many people overtime, and that is grammatically 1324 01:14:35,190 --> 01:14:36,900 provable across all three of these. 1325 01:14:38,440 --> 01:14:40,130 They thought this would be an atheist. 1326 01:14:40,380 --> 01:14:42,120 Sorry ladies. Would be an atheist. 1327 01:14:42,380 --> 01:14:46,050 And not an atheist. I, I believe I, I'm, I'm very 1328 01:14:46,060 --> 01:14:48,290 spiritual, but I'm, I'm spiritual in different ways. 1329 01:14:48,300 --> 01:14:52,790 But yeah, so I did a temporary mosque at Queens Park, and 1330 01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:56,410 that's when I started to understand the power of where 1331 01:14:56,420 --> 01:15:00,360 architecture, politics and and culture really overlap. 1332 01:15:01,100 --> 01:15:02,760 And it got a lot of attention. It was. 1333 01:15:04,160 --> 01:15:05,180 It was huge. It was. 1334 01:15:06,030 --> 01:15:08,640 It was hundreds of pieces of thermoform plastic. 1335 01:15:09,030 --> 01:15:11,920 It was, it was, it was. It was a it was. 1336 01:15:12,240 --> 01:15:16,770 I used all of my scholarship money to do this thesis, $50,000 1337 01:15:17,580 --> 01:15:23,500 Yeah, it was, it was amazing. And the Toronto Star did a full 1338 01:15:23,510 --> 01:15:27,440 2 page spread. And at the time, Gabe Gonda, who 1339 01:15:27,830 --> 01:15:31,300 was this intrepid there, you know, probably 30 year old 1340 01:15:32,260 --> 01:15:37,630 editor at the at the Star, he put on a reporter on this and 1341 01:15:38,860 --> 01:15:42,600 and they did a two page spread of my thesis in the Toronto 1342 01:15:42,610 --> 01:15:44,400 Star. I mean, it was unbelievable. 1343 01:15:45,150 --> 01:15:50,310 And to this day, he subsequently we became very good friends 1344 01:15:50,580 --> 01:15:56,270 because in a way, he gave me my shot because he was like, what 1345 01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:57,990 this kid is doing is really important. 1346 01:15:59,190 --> 01:16:02,260 And and this is going to be someone to watch. 1347 01:16:03,670 --> 01:16:08,060 And Gabe to this day is a very, very good friend of mine, like a 1348 01:16:08,070 --> 01:16:11,420 brother, like more like almost a an older brother, a much older 1349 01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:15,020 brother. But, but, and that's what 1350 01:16:15,090 --> 01:16:17,860 between that and the building boom, because he had, I had to 1351 01:16:17,870 --> 01:16:20,080 mount my my thesis in Canada because I wanted the 1352 01:16:20,090 --> 01:16:25,390 architecture to be here. So I came back to Canada and and 1353 01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:29,710 then it was, you know, I didn't start partisans until after 1354 01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:35,600 because I met my, my, my initial cofounder at Waterloo when I, 1355 01:16:35,610 --> 01:16:38,530 when I had to come back to do the end of my thesis after the 1356 01:16:38,540 --> 01:16:46,240 Ball Institute. And, and there was still this 1357 01:16:46,290 --> 01:16:51,230 grinding Cornell thing, not getting into that Ivy League. 1358 01:16:51,300 --> 01:16:58,990 It was this knowing kind of, yeah, salted wound. 1359 01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:03,780 Yeah, this insecurity. And so I said to my partner at 1360 01:17:03,790 --> 01:17:06,710 the time, I was like, we need pedigree. 1361 01:17:07,820 --> 01:17:11,310 All this profession cares about the The Academy Is pedigree and 1362 01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,900 same with the world. The world's obsessed with 1363 01:17:13,910 --> 01:17:20,710 pedigree and class and and and all these things, regardless of 1364 01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:22,390 what you say, like they care. People care. 1365 01:17:23,050 --> 01:17:26,850 And so I said, you know what? I wanted one last crack at this. 1366 01:17:27,190 --> 01:17:30,010 I Cornell. No, don't even bother applying 1367 01:17:30,020 --> 01:17:32,700 because at that point I was like, it's not significant, OK. 1368 01:17:32,890 --> 01:17:37,320 And so it was the Architecture Association in London and 1369 01:17:37,330 --> 01:17:40,580 Colombia. Those are the 2 I could. 1370 01:17:40,590 --> 01:17:46,040 There was no one else and I got into both and it was very 1371 01:17:46,050 --> 01:17:48,720 satisfying. It was very satisfying. 1372 01:17:48,890 --> 01:17:53,930 And in fact for the Architecture Association, I said I don't want 1373 01:17:53,940 --> 01:17:56,200 to go alone. I want to come with my business 1374 01:17:56,210 --> 01:17:59,040 partner that my cofounder, because I think we're going to 1375 01:17:59,050 --> 01:18:02,450 make a go of this and you have to let him in if you want me to 1376 01:18:02,460 --> 01:18:05,390 come. And they did crazy, which is 1377 01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:06,550 crazy. Yeah. 1378 01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:08,250 Now he was extraordinarily accomplished. 1379 01:18:08,260 --> 01:18:11,440 Still crazy but had he applied prior to my forced him to? 1380 01:18:12,260 --> 01:18:14,530 So he applied. Afterwards they were like, OK, 1381 01:18:14,540 --> 01:18:17,270 give us an application. OK, so that's what I mean is you 1382 01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:20,340 made this request, then he applied and they looked at it 1383 01:18:20,350 --> 01:18:22,960 and then they said, OK, it's not like he had also applied at the 1384 01:18:22,970 --> 01:18:24,430 same time. They already reviewed it. 1385 01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:26,150 And they're like, you know what? Yeah, we can. 1386 01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:28,730 We can accept that too. That's wild. 1387 01:18:29,110 --> 01:18:35,730 OK. And, and so the plan was because 1388 01:18:35,740 --> 01:18:38,070 he was Iranian, that he would have to get a visa and it would 1389 01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:41,310 come four or five months later or whatever it was. 1390 01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,830 And I would start the term and like I think 2 weeks or three 1391 01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,310 weeks in, I was just like, call them. 1392 01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:50,880 And I was like, I can't do this, man. 1393 01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:54,130 I'm cooked. And in Italian there's an 1394 01:18:54,140 --> 01:19:00,430 amazing phrase Dusek auto, and a friend of mine told me about 1395 01:19:00,440 --> 01:19:03,410 this. He used it to actually insult me 1396 01:19:04,580 --> 01:19:11,920 because I was just so into this girl that a friend of mine in 1397 01:19:11,930 --> 01:19:17,740 Italian said that I was behaving in a way that was like, dumb. 1398 01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:21,510 Like you're a, you're a man. You know, you're your own man. 1399 01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,030 You can live your life. Doesn't matter. 1400 01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:24,990 Like, yeah, so you have a girlfriend. 1401 01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:27,770 And he goes, Alex, my dude was sick. 1402 01:19:27,780 --> 01:19:32,570 Although you're cooked, man, you know, And I thought about that 1403 01:19:33,000 --> 01:19:37,790 at like the third week of being at the AA, which is not, it is 1404 01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:40,150 not Alcoholics Anonymous. It's the Architecture 1405 01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:43,660 Association School in London. It's where the Hadid went to 1406 01:19:43,670 --> 01:19:48,030 school. Patrick Schumacher, So many of 1407 01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:50,600 the most celebrated architects alive working right now, whether 1408 01:19:50,850 --> 01:19:56,330 and or teach them. And so I got in, I went, and 1409 01:19:56,740 --> 01:19:58,520 after three weeks I was just like, you know what? 1410 01:19:58,530 --> 01:20:03,190 I can't do this. I feel old compared to the other 1411 01:20:03,200 --> 01:20:06,080 people here because I already had my masters and I had done a 1412 01:20:06,090 --> 01:20:11,480 fellowship and I had traveled a lot and I just was like, I don't 1413 01:20:11,490 --> 01:20:14,040 think I can do this. I need to start my life and I 1414 01:20:14,050 --> 01:20:16,020 dropped out. Oh yeah. 1415 01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:20,990 Opening up two spots. Yeah, yeah. 1416 01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:22,550 Yeah, Now what? Yeah. 1417 01:20:22,860 --> 01:20:25,850 Yeah, So I dropped out of the A, but it felt incredibly 1418 01:20:25,860 --> 01:20:28,750 gratifying to see how rigorous the school was after having 1419 01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:33,700 gotten getting gotten in and same with Columbia getting into 1420 01:20:33,710 --> 01:20:39,080 the GSAP. And it was, it was validating. 1421 01:20:40,170 --> 01:20:41,900 It was like, you're good enough kid, right? 1422 01:20:42,010 --> 01:20:44,070 And and. Then. 1423 01:20:45,300 --> 01:20:50,560 And then it was back to Toronto and we started I I renovated a 1424 01:20:50,830 --> 01:20:55,590 an attic space in a building downtown is that my grandmother 1425 01:20:55,600 --> 01:20:57,890 ran. It was a one Yorkville. 1426 01:20:57,900 --> 01:21:00,370 It was the cookbook store. My parents loved cooking and my 1427 01:21:00,380 --> 01:21:02,960 grandmother and my uncle and my father opened a cookbook store. 1428 01:21:03,780 --> 01:21:05,850 I think it was just because they wanted to write every dinner and 1429 01:21:06,690 --> 01:21:11,200 trip they took to a, a chef's place or like right off anyway, 1430 01:21:11,750 --> 01:21:14,920 So they owned the cookbook store, which was a kind of 1431 01:21:15,670 --> 01:21:18,260 institution in Toronto, OK, at the time, but it was in this 1432 01:21:18,270 --> 01:21:20,260 dingy building and falling apart. 1433 01:21:20,270 --> 01:21:22,340 And I to make a start in Toronto. 1434 01:21:22,350 --> 01:21:27,560 I, I, I built it myself. I demoed it myself with some 1435 01:21:27,570 --> 01:21:32,260 friends. I I did it all without perfect 1436 01:21:33,300 --> 01:21:41,840 and I built like what you would call like a a Mertz bow by by 1437 01:21:42,050 --> 01:21:44,880 Kurt Schwitters. Yeah, I built my version of 1438 01:21:44,890 --> 01:21:48,500 Merzbow. I I I'm naive to have to say I 1439 01:21:48,510 --> 01:21:51,120 don't know what this is so. There is this artist named Kurt 1440 01:21:51,130 --> 01:21:57,420 Schwitters, and he built an apartment and the unfortunate 1441 01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:59,650 thing is it, it was progressive art. 1442 01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:04,190 And so the fascist, the fascists destroyed this apartment. 1443 01:22:04,260 --> 01:22:07,290 But it was a very important three dimensionalization of what 1444 01:22:07,300 --> 01:22:12,480 you would call Cubist Suprematist structure, 1445 01:22:12,580 --> 01:22:16,430 structuralist work. And it's an important piece of 1446 01:22:16,440 --> 01:22:19,280 art history of them. It's bound by Curtis Fitters and 1447 01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:25,190 and I, I built my apartment as a kind of A3 to A4 dimensional 1448 01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:28,770 living art installation, a spatial installation that the 1449 01:22:28,780 --> 01:22:33,870 shower, the toilet, the kitchen, it was all exposed and this 1450 01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:38,810 volume and it became a party space, our office and we were 1451 01:22:38,820 --> 01:22:40,870 off to the races. I think Jeff Stober from the 1452 01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:45,890 Drake wrote us our first check just cause you thought we were 1453 01:22:45,900 --> 01:22:47,480 punks and wanted to see what we could do for him. 1454 01:22:47,490 --> 01:22:48,990 And it was we were naive. We were. 1455 01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,270 So I, I think we bring this naivety to our projects today 1456 01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:55,270 because you have to, you have to, you have to sort of to 1457 01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:58,290 invent, I feel like you have to be kind of, you have to have 1458 01:22:58,300 --> 01:23:00,000 your head in the clouds on a certain set. 1459 01:23:00,010 --> 01:23:02,520 You have to want 11 foot in the cloud, one, one foot on the 1460 01:23:02,530 --> 01:23:05,690 ground. But yeah, we started. 1461 01:23:06,020 --> 01:23:09,410 That was 2012. And what? 1462 01:23:09,480 --> 01:23:11,470 What were the projects like when you started? 1463 01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:16,320 We did an installation when my grandmother passed away. 1464 01:23:16,330 --> 01:23:20,010 We did an installation out of cardboard at the Josephson 1465 01:23:20,020 --> 01:23:23,780 Opticians headquarters. My my uncle said I'll give you 1466 01:23:23,790 --> 01:23:28,870 $20,000 to do a display that is in honor of your grandmother. 1467 01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,350 And we did it, and it got tons of media coverage. 1468 01:23:32,030 --> 01:23:34,700 It just was this beautiful sculpture and we made it 1469 01:23:34,710 --> 01:23:38,450 ourselves. We rented a loading dock at 1470 01:23:38,460 --> 01:23:44,930 Planet Storage on DuPont, at DuPont and and Dundas all the 1471 01:23:44,940 --> 01:23:48,840 way over there, OK. And we built it and design, we 1472 01:23:48,850 --> 01:23:53,320 designed and built it on the deck of my place in Yorkville. 1473 01:23:53,770 --> 01:23:58,560 And we rented this. Really it was the Hockey puck 1474 01:23:58,570 --> 01:24:01,910 factory for for Canada. This was the biggest hockey puck 1475 01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:03,280 factory. That's what the building was, 1476 01:24:03,290 --> 01:24:05,070 where the the planet storage was. 1477 01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:09,560 We rented the Planet Storage. We designed this display, and 1478 01:24:09,570 --> 01:24:12,480 then we built it ourselves. We, we we wanted in front of 1479 01:24:12,490 --> 01:24:14,070 ours from architecture school. We were like, hey, we're gonna 1480 01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,280 start a firm. And we didn't have a name for it 1481 01:24:16,290 --> 01:24:18,260 yet. We just called ourselves fragile 1482 01:24:18,270 --> 01:24:19,810 at the time because we didn't know what to name. 1483 01:24:19,820 --> 01:24:21,450 And we knew that. We knew that things were 1484 01:24:21,460 --> 01:24:22,900 fragile. Yeah. 1485 01:24:22,910 --> 01:24:24,550 Yeah. Because we found these stickers, 1486 01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:28,640 you know, fragile. Handle with care, you put those 1487 01:24:28,650 --> 01:24:31,600 on models or things that are, you know, like, and so 1488 01:24:31,610 --> 01:24:34,540 architecture, the models. We are making a lot of models 1489 01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:36,470 and we love these fragile handle with care stickers. 1490 01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:39,860 So we were and, and then when we invited that friend to come and 1491 01:24:39,870 --> 01:24:41,600 help us build it, he, he chickened out. 1492 01:24:41,610 --> 01:24:45,690 He he was so intimidated by what we were trying to do because 1493 01:24:45,700 --> 01:24:47,180 normally architects don't build anything. 1494 01:24:47,570 --> 01:24:49,910 Architects just draw drawings and then force someone else to 1495 01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:53,320 figure it out from an engineer or a builder. 1496 01:24:54,810 --> 01:24:56,610 Don't do that. I started by. 1497 01:24:56,700 --> 01:25:00,980 The only way you could do what we did for $20,000 is if we did 1498 01:25:00,990 --> 01:25:02,190 it they. Bootstrap it. 1499 01:25:02,250 --> 01:25:06,650 Ourselves, yeah, like drew it, fabricated it, yeah. 1500 01:25:06,870 --> 01:25:08,850 Put it together and installed it, yeah. 1501 01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:11,270 It's the only it's the only way to do it that. 1502 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,340 Would have cost five times, would it cost for sure, right? 1503 01:25:14,610 --> 01:25:24,270 And this coward of a friend of ours, this coward gave up after 1504 01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:27,010 an hour or two. Being with us, he was like, you 1505 01:25:27,020 --> 01:25:31,990 guys can't do this. I give up cause, you know, we, 1506 01:25:32,060 --> 01:25:33,310 we hadn't done everything perfectly. 1507 01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:35,080 It wasn't all worked out. We were gonna have to fix the 1508 01:25:35,090 --> 01:25:39,520 problems and he just, he abandoned us. 1509 01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,120 And that's when I knew the difference between us 1510 01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,680 entrepreneurs and everybody else. 1511 01:25:48,490 --> 01:25:51,370 It's not. Not everybody thinks this way. 1512 01:25:51,700 --> 01:25:54,250 Not everybody feels this way. And this guy, I know his name to 1513 01:25:54,260 --> 01:25:56,350 this day. I won't say his name, but what a 1514 01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:57,440 coward. Yeah. 1515 01:25:57,480 --> 01:25:59,710 He was just a bunch of cardboard we were putting together. 1516 01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:02,730 It was beautiful. But anyway, so Amy Verner was 1517 01:26:02,740 --> 01:26:05,310 writing for the Global Mail, and she did a piece on this. 1518 01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:08,320 And she goes, Alex, Are you sure you want to be called fragile? 1519 01:26:10,190 --> 01:26:13,740 Oh wow. And we were like, yeah, probably 1520 01:26:13,750 --> 01:26:15,440 not. She was like, yeah, probably 1521 01:26:15,450 --> 01:26:16,960 not. Do you have a better name? 1522 01:26:17,010 --> 01:26:18,780 Because this is and. You weren't incorporated. 1523 01:26:19,250 --> 01:26:20,590 They weren't, we weren't incorporated. 1524 01:26:20,630 --> 01:26:27,970 This was, this was 2012. And she was like, this is gonna 1525 01:26:27,980 --> 01:26:30,580 be a big story. Like this is a really cool thing 1526 01:26:30,590 --> 01:26:31,240 you did. Yeah. 1527 01:26:31,250 --> 01:26:34,480 And it's gonna fashion. People are gonna pay attention, 1528 01:26:34,490 --> 01:26:35,400 people. Pay attention. 1529 01:26:35,830 --> 01:26:37,560 And it's not just an architecture and design. 1530 01:26:37,570 --> 01:26:40,600 So it's a fashion story, it's an obituary, It's a whole bunch of 1531 01:26:40,610 --> 01:26:45,550 things. And that was when Italy came 1532 01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:50,580 back and the politics and right. Also, you know, our design 1533 01:26:50,590 --> 01:26:53,600 process was argumentative. It was very dialectical. 1534 01:26:53,870 --> 01:26:57,120 We didn't agree on everything. The way we got to agreement was 1535 01:26:57,130 --> 01:27:01,180 by arguing. And so partisans and partisans 1536 01:27:01,770 --> 01:27:05,840 represents people who fight for A cause. 1537 01:27:05,930 --> 01:27:08,360 Partisans like Eastern European partisans. 1538 01:27:08,990 --> 01:27:11,980 But it's also political, OK, It's deeply political. 1539 01:27:12,050 --> 01:27:16,070 And I had proposed this name and when we took Partisans on as 1540 01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:19,520 that as that name, and that was the beginning of partisans and 1541 01:27:19,530 --> 01:27:25,950 we incorporated 2013. In beyond that project, what, 1542 01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:28,710 what, what were some of the other early projects that you 1543 01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:29,770 had? Did you have residential 1544 01:27:29,780 --> 01:27:30,870 projects? Did you have anything 1545 01:27:30,880 --> 01:27:34,070 commercial, civic, public like nothing, OK. 1546 01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:35,570 No. And the other reason we call 1547 01:27:35,580 --> 01:27:40,420 ourselves partisans is when we got back to Canada, the 1548 01:27:41,220 --> 01:27:45,440 architectural regulatory body here stripped me of my 1549 01:27:45,450 --> 01:27:49,350 experience time because I had worked all over the world, 1550 01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:51,450 right? And in some of the places I 1551 01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:56,670 didn't have a visa. I was there on a educational 1552 01:27:57,390 --> 01:27:59,600 thing, I was on a work visa, right? 1553 01:27:59,650 --> 01:28:05,650 And and these people had the temerity to say that because I 1554 01:28:05,660 --> 01:28:10,690 didn't have a quote, UN quote work visa, that they wouldn't 1555 01:28:10,700 --> 01:28:14,390 give me my hours. And they were stripping years of 1556 01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:17,410 experience, right? Taking stealing my time. 1557 01:28:17,460 --> 01:28:22,200 Yeah, that is the most important thing I learned in the world, 1558 01:28:22,530 --> 01:28:28,250 besides mothers and wives. If someone steals your time, 1559 01:28:29,950 --> 01:28:36,150 they've stolen something so precious the universe can't give 1560 01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:40,110 you back your time. Hmm and they wanted to steal the 1561 01:28:40,120 --> 01:28:44,650 time from me and so we said well fuck this. 1562 01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:49,680 And they did it to him, too. And we said we're gonna start 1563 01:28:49,690 --> 01:28:51,100 our own right. We don't care. 1564 01:28:51,110 --> 01:28:54,540 We'll work with architects that have a stamp and they'll mentor 1565 01:28:54,550 --> 01:28:58,500 us and we'll get there. And they, you wouldn't believe 1566 01:28:58,510 --> 01:29:00,250 the number of cease and desist letters I got. 1567 01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:03,540 This is I I had 3 1/2° in architecture. 1568 01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:14,110 So did my partner too and and we were being attacked by the 1569 01:29:14,120 --> 01:29:18,950 regulators because people were referring to us as architects. 1570 01:29:19,020 --> 01:29:20,950 We weren't referring to ourselves as architects. 1571 01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:23,770 Yeah, I've heard the story so many times from so many 1572 01:29:23,780 --> 01:29:24,950 different people. Yeah. 1573 01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:29,490 About how? Just asinine like you just 1574 01:29:29,500 --> 01:29:32,490 creating work. Listen, you have to regulate the 1575 01:29:32,500 --> 01:29:33,430 production. Get it? 1576 01:29:33,440 --> 01:29:35,350 But. Listen to doctors, lawyers, 1577 01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:37,870 architects, engineers have to be regulated. 1578 01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:41,400 These are these are critical services that have life and 1579 01:29:41,410 --> 01:29:43,470 death consequences. I agree and. 1580 01:29:43,480 --> 01:29:47,970 It's it's really about that. But, but, but to that was the 1581 01:29:47,980 --> 01:29:53,010 reason I was, I had worked for architects that run circles 1582 01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:58,130 around architects in Canada and they refused to recognize my 1583 01:29:58,140 --> 01:30:00,360 experience. And so one of the reasons we 1584 01:30:00,370 --> 01:30:03,900 called ourselves partisans was that it was about fighting back. 1585 01:30:05,370 --> 01:30:07,580 And we found architects to work for us. 1586 01:30:08,090 --> 01:30:10,300 We worked. We worked around it, right? 1587 01:30:10,310 --> 01:30:13,180 We found architects who shared our cause. 1588 01:30:13,550 --> 01:30:18,580 Michael McClellan from ERA. He helped us Phillip Phillip 1589 01:30:18,590 --> 01:30:21,520 Evans from ERA. Phillips coming on next week. 1590 01:30:22,130 --> 01:30:23,860 Bam. So like. 1591 01:30:23,870 --> 01:30:26,930 These are the guys, like, instead of this, like, petty, 1592 01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:33,380 uncompetitive, sort of like, we were like, we were being 1593 01:30:33,390 --> 01:30:35,980 attacked, right? And instead of saying no, 1594 01:30:35,990 --> 01:30:40,440 Phillip and Michael were like, yeah, you know, And they helped 1595 01:30:40,450 --> 01:30:43,040 us. And then we found our third 1596 01:30:43,050 --> 01:30:48,740 partner and he helped and he mentored us right? 1597 01:30:48,750 --> 01:30:50,500 And he had a stamp, and we brought him in. 1598 01:30:51,540 --> 01:30:59,250 And, you know, like, that's why we called ourselves partisans. 1599 01:31:00,330 --> 01:31:03,850 There was, there was a cause and we were fighting for not just 1600 01:31:03,860 --> 01:31:06,410 our freedom, we were fighting for other architects. 1601 01:31:06,420 --> 01:31:09,290 Freedom. We were fighting for, you know, 1602 01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:12,690 academic justice, right? And we were fighting for a 1603 01:31:12,700 --> 01:31:15,430 beautiful design in a city that frankly doesn't celebrate it 1604 01:31:15,440 --> 01:31:19,620 enough. And we were, we were off to the 1605 01:31:19,630 --> 01:31:24,290 races in a way, but it was the sauna that changed everything. 1606 01:31:24,610 --> 01:31:27,200 It was the grotto sauna that really changed everything. 1607 01:31:27,570 --> 01:31:32,580 In what way? So my thesis attracted attention 1608 01:31:33,700 --> 01:31:37,890 and what it did was put people who were interested in design. 1609 01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:41,940 They were like, who is this? Who are these guys? 1610 01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:47,720 And so a couple of people. I met a man named Anthony Novak 1611 01:31:47,810 --> 01:31:51,200 at a party for the power plant who's still a friend of mine. 1612 01:31:51,210 --> 01:31:55,030 I saw him a couple days ago and he was like, I loved your thesis 1613 01:31:55,100 --> 01:31:58,160 and I wanna hire you to do my house, my farm. 1614 01:31:58,250 --> 01:32:02,250 It was called Armageddon. So he gave me a shot and then 1615 01:32:03,670 --> 01:32:07,620 Kim Bozak gave me a shot and she did the sauna with her husband 1616 01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:16,480 and between the farm and the and the grotto, that was what laid 1617 01:32:16,490 --> 01:32:19,630 the real foundation. And before that was the thesis 1618 01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:21,550 and the the installations we did right. 1619 01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:25,410 But then the real architecture it was, it was the sauna. 1620 01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:29,950 And then Jonathan Puya and I were off to the races. 1621 01:32:30,500 --> 01:32:33,710 And what did it look like as you went off to those races like, 1622 01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:36,650 and I don't know, they need to go into like all the specifics, 1623 01:32:36,660 --> 01:32:40,510 but like what is, what were some of these projects in terms of 1624 01:32:41,930 --> 01:32:50,390 scale, location, um, the clients ambition for what you would come 1625 01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:53,630 up with? Um, well, I mean, off to the 1626 01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:58,080 races is is, I'm, I'm saying that kind of tongue in cheek. 1627 01:32:58,090 --> 01:33:00,820 Of course it's a it's this has been a slog. 1628 01:33:00,890 --> 01:33:02,140 I'm. Not saying that you all of a 1629 01:33:02,150 --> 01:33:04,060 sudden you just like people like, Oh yeah, by the way, 1630 01:33:04,070 --> 01:33:07,640 here's here's $100 million, go give me something. 1631 01:33:07,650 --> 01:33:09,550 And you had like 14 of those. No, we. 1632 01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:12,000 Were hustling we were at, we were, we were, we were. 1633 01:33:12,450 --> 01:33:17,010 I was really out there. I mean, I went from being kind 1634 01:33:17,020 --> 01:33:23,450 of introverted and not very good socially to having to be very 1635 01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:26,350 and this, this, I learned this in Rome as well. 1636 01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:30,710 I, I wasn't into like back to Toronto that I realized I have 1637 01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:33,670 to become, I have to be more friendly. 1638 01:33:34,050 --> 01:33:36,620 I have, I have to be more curious about other people 1639 01:33:37,830 --> 01:33:42,510 because I, I think that part of that feeling alone was from not 1640 01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:44,570 really engaging with people enough, right? 1641 01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:50,010 And so I realized if I wanted to be an architect, I, I would 1642 01:33:50,020 --> 01:33:52,930 really need to work on this personally, psychologically. 1643 01:33:53,950 --> 01:33:59,010 And so the way we got these works after those two projects, 1644 01:34:00,090 --> 01:34:08,150 bar Raval being the next big boom, was from being out there 1645 01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:11,690 and investing and being a citizen in the city and, and, 1646 01:34:11,900 --> 01:34:17,140 and attending things and supporting causes and, and so 1647 01:34:17,150 --> 01:34:20,640 I'll give you 2 examples. Supporting the power plant got 1648 01:34:20,650 --> 01:34:22,700 me Anthony Novak. That's why I met him at a party 1649 01:34:22,710 --> 01:34:26,290 at the Power Plant Gallery. Yep, Being supportive of 1650 01:34:26,300 --> 01:34:29,810 institutions in the city put me in the space of an orbit of 1651 01:34:29,820 --> 01:34:37,010 people who were interesting and ambitious and the institutional 1652 01:34:37,020 --> 01:34:44,010 leaders. And then, um, bar of out came 1653 01:34:44,020 --> 01:34:47,980 from the grotto. The grotto went viral and the 1654 01:34:47,990 --> 01:34:50,930 clients didn't like that it was an invasion. 1655 01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:54,060 They felt it was an invasion of their privacy, even though it 1656 01:34:54,070 --> 01:34:58,080 was so remote. But I was, I was sad to know 1657 01:34:58,090 --> 01:35:03,770 that. I was sad that they felt then 1658 01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:08,580 the it's a double edged sword. Canadians are very private 1659 01:35:08,590 --> 01:35:11,720 people, I know. And in the United States or 1660 01:35:11,730 --> 01:35:15,450 Europe, the click of the things I had, I basically had to shut 1661 01:35:15,460 --> 01:35:20,330 down communications on Grotto for two years because I felt so 1662 01:35:20,340 --> 01:35:24,330 threatened, right? And but we were lucky. 1663 01:35:24,340 --> 01:35:29,130 We got Barrow, Val and Borrow. Val also went viral, but we got 1664 01:35:29,140 --> 01:35:31,110 Miraval in the most Canadian way. 1665 01:35:31,810 --> 01:35:36,080 Play lucky. No, no, in New York I'm. 1666 01:35:36,090 --> 01:35:40,670 Joking, yeah. Seriously, what's the most 1667 01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:44,180 Canadian thing in the world? Leaving and being told by 1668 01:35:44,190 --> 01:35:47,710 someone else who to work with. Oh, this Canadian that. 1669 01:35:47,850 --> 01:35:51,950 Like I've heard of So Grant van Gameren's in New York for the 1670 01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:54,540 San Pellegrino Prize for being a chef of No. 1671 01:35:55,620 --> 01:36:02,320 And someone I was also dating at the time was doing strategy for 1672 01:36:02,570 --> 01:36:04,320 companies in New York and Toronto. 1673 01:36:05,110 --> 01:36:08,600 And she was like, have you seen like, like basically were at the 1674 01:36:08,610 --> 01:36:10,720 table with San Pellegrino and San Pellegrino. 1675 01:36:10,730 --> 01:36:12,840 People were like, what are you? What's next for you? 1676 01:36:12,990 --> 01:36:15,590 He's like, I want to do what? Tapas bar like this incredible 1677 01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:20,570 wood, kind of like Prague Art Nouveau. 1678 01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:28,740 And by sheer luck, in New York, this girl Phoebe was like. 1679 01:36:28,950 --> 01:36:34,210 This woman, Phoebe, was like, you need to hire these guys that 1680 01:36:34,220 --> 01:36:36,970 did this sauna in Toronto. You guys, have you seen this? 1681 01:36:36,980 --> 01:36:40,470 And you hadn't seen it, but he was showing it in New York. 1682 01:36:42,150 --> 01:36:44,850 Unbelievable, right? And then after we did it, it 1683 01:36:44,860 --> 01:36:49,380 went, it went totally viral at one incredible awards for 1684 01:36:49,390 --> 01:36:53,130 innovation. And it it to this day is very 1685 01:36:53,140 --> 01:36:59,280 innovative and those two projects gave us our our start. 1686 01:36:59,630 --> 01:37:08,500 It introduced us and, and yeah, it was, it was pretty cool. 1687 01:37:08,740 --> 01:37:13,650 And, and then we were hired. We we somehow won the Commission 1688 01:37:13,660 --> 01:37:17,900 to help participate on the interior fit out of Union 1689 01:37:17,910 --> 01:37:20,390 Station. The Thompson family is real 1690 01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:24,830 estate company run by Lawrence Zucker called Osmington Was 1691 01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:29,360 like, I mean, I, I, I don't know how he would describe it, but 1692 01:37:29,370 --> 01:37:32,780 what I would how I would describe it is like, I think he 1693 01:37:32,790 --> 01:37:37,270 saw an opportunity to leverage some really strong talent and 1694 01:37:37,460 --> 01:37:40,670 and horsepower for for very little, right? 1695 01:37:40,980 --> 01:37:45,770 And I think he got a lot out of it and the, and the station got 1696 01:37:45,780 --> 01:37:48,390 a lot out of it. We helped make sure that the 1697 01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:54,220 ambition there was that it was a, you know, like transit 1698 01:37:54,230 --> 01:37:57,560 stations like Germany and Rome, like these are these are pretty 1699 01:37:58,150 --> 01:38:02,700 traditionally they were not positioned to be safe, beautiful 1700 01:38:02,710 --> 01:38:05,860 places. Yes, the retail was was low, 1701 01:38:05,930 --> 01:38:09,800 low. Like the most memorable thing 1702 01:38:09,810 --> 01:38:14,150 about Union Station was Cinnabon and people smoking tell 1703 01:38:14,160 --> 01:38:16,980 Cinnabon. Oh yeah, I remember. 1704 01:38:16,990 --> 01:38:19,620 I remember the location. It was the whole station reeked 1705 01:38:19,630 --> 01:38:23,160 of Cinnabon and and cigarettes in the way that they pumped that 1706 01:38:23,170 --> 01:38:28,690 smell out there off. Anyway, so be and Reinvasion 1707 01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:31,910 Union Station with a friend, Andrew Francis and yeah, Brad 1708 01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:42,290 Keist, also a friend of Randies and and the the vision was a 1709 01:38:42,300 --> 01:38:47,100 plat for a platform for what was the actual slogan? 1710 01:38:47,110 --> 01:38:56,040 It was A. A platform for for Toronto's 1711 01:38:56,050 --> 01:38:58,250 best culinary and cultural retail offerings. 1712 01:38:59,340 --> 01:39:05,500 A destination, not a conduit. And that totally influenced the 1713 01:39:05,580 --> 01:39:08,890 the retail ambition, the architecture and design ambition 1714 01:39:08,900 --> 01:39:11,450 of those spaces. And if you go there today, it is 1715 01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:15,300 unbelievable how successful that has been. 1716 01:39:17,020 --> 01:39:21,730 And now at this point where you are actually, before I ask that 1717 01:39:21,740 --> 01:39:23,840 question, let me stop. Let me ask this question. 1718 01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:28,880 How how many how many months or years into the practice did you 1719 01:39:28,890 --> 01:39:31,600 have to wait until you had your first hire? 1720 01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:35,170 What? But I thought I already went 1721 01:39:35,180 --> 01:39:37,840 over that with you. Like that's not a linear thing. 1722 01:39:37,940 --> 01:39:44,190 Like we didn't a lot of people like understand, like most 1723 01:39:44,200 --> 01:39:46,770 people who start an architecture firm, they go and they work for 1724 01:39:46,780 --> 01:39:49,120 another architect and they either take a project from their 1725 01:39:49,130 --> 01:39:54,110 office and start on their own or they become an expert or a they, 1726 01:39:54,120 --> 01:39:56,490 they stay at a firm for a bit and they they're good at a 1727 01:39:56,500 --> 01:39:58,710 certain typology and then they win a competition. 1728 01:39:59,110 --> 01:40:01,150 Yeah, RP, I'm saying for you guys. 1729 01:40:02,090 --> 01:40:04,870 For you guys, when did you, when did you need your first hire? 1730 01:40:04,980 --> 01:40:06,070 But. We, I talked about them. 1731 01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:07,670 Those were all hires. They paid us to do those 1732 01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:10,240 projects, no? No, no, not not not not clients 1733 01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:12,700 and please ohe. Employees. 1734 01:40:12,710 --> 01:40:14,680 Yeah, let me ask another question. 1735 01:40:14,690 --> 01:40:16,080 Let me ask that boy. Yeah, hold on. 1736 01:40:16,090 --> 01:40:16,750 Let's. I was. 1737 01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:17,590 Like what? No. 1738 01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:19,980 No, hold on, Zishan, I'm gonna ask that question again. 1739 01:40:19,990 --> 01:40:21,540 We'll cut that little part out there. 1740 01:40:21,770 --> 01:40:27,220 So I'll do a 321. So you know, looking at the 1741 01:40:27,230 --> 01:40:29,870 evolution of your practice, whether it was a couple of 1742 01:40:29,880 --> 01:40:31,420 months, couple years. Employee number one. 1743 01:40:31,430 --> 01:40:31,810 Yeah. When? 1744 01:40:31,820 --> 01:40:33,340 Did you need? When did you have to hire your 1745 01:40:33,350 --> 01:40:34,480 first employee? Well. 1746 01:40:34,490 --> 01:40:36,480 We were hiring students that we like. 1747 01:40:36,490 --> 01:40:41,180 We were teaching at UTK and George Brown, so we were already 1748 01:40:41,190 --> 01:40:46,250 hiring students to help us and we hired some friends when we 1749 01:40:46,260 --> 01:40:51,520 got Union Station. But until Union Station, I would 1750 01:40:51,530 --> 01:40:54,520 say there were many, many people. 1751 01:40:54,610 --> 01:40:56,530 We're gonna release a book this year. 1752 01:40:57,850 --> 01:41:02,110 More than 80 people have come through our office. 1753 01:41:02,420 --> 01:41:04,610 Since 2012. Since. 2012. 1754 01:41:05,450 --> 01:41:07,340 Wow, that's a lot of people. Since 2011. 1755 01:41:07,350 --> 01:41:08,400 Since we graduated. Yeah, it's. 1756 01:41:08,410 --> 01:41:11,540 A lot of people. And for a small little company, 1757 01:41:11,550 --> 01:41:14,440 it's yeah, 8085 people or something like that. 1758 01:41:14,450 --> 01:41:19,610 But who do I remember? I remember to be honest, I 1759 01:41:19,620 --> 01:41:22,330 actually wasn't looking at it from the standpoint of like who 1760 01:41:22,400 --> 01:41:25,150 who the people were, more so like, when, when did you bring 1761 01:41:25,160 --> 01:41:26,490 them in? What, like what was the role 1762 01:41:26,500 --> 01:41:27,670 they had to fulfill? Was it? 1763 01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:30,030 Was it drafting? There were key things that 1764 01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:32,150 happened. So before it got really serious 1765 01:41:32,160 --> 01:41:37,770 with Union Station, we had brought in a few people who we 1766 01:41:37,780 --> 01:41:41,140 knew. There were some UT students 1767 01:41:41,150 --> 01:41:42,720 helped out. There was a girl named Leila 1768 01:41:42,730 --> 01:41:48,770 Salty who was around. There was Shamir Panchal who 1769 01:41:48,780 --> 01:41:54,640 ended up at BDP Quadrangle. There was Nathan Bishop who is 1770 01:41:54,650 --> 01:41:59,980 here today to this day. Great student from UFT that I 1771 01:41:59,990 --> 01:42:03,230 knew as a, as a young Prof at the time. 1772 01:42:03,320 --> 01:42:06,350 And that was how we made ends meet. 1773 01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:10,090 We were both teaching right, OK, teaching at Waterloo, George 1774 01:42:10,100 --> 01:42:15,340 Brown and U of T OK And so that helped us. 1775 01:42:17,790 --> 01:42:23,900 But what I would say is, so Nathan Bishop and then Yvonne 1776 01:42:23,910 --> 01:42:29,810 Vasilev and Dove find Meiser and there was a group, an intrepid 1777 01:42:29,820 --> 01:42:32,690 group in the beginning. Some stayed a long time, like 1778 01:42:32,700 --> 01:42:35,900 Ivan. Betty Wong was around and she 1779 01:42:35,910 --> 01:42:39,630 was great. So what do they have to do? 1780 01:42:39,900 --> 01:42:40,990 What? Like what was their role? 1781 01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:44,300 Everything. BIM model making OK Rhino here 1782 01:42:44,310 --> 01:42:46,050 you. Go, this is Yeah. 1783 01:42:46,100 --> 01:42:49,890 Grasshopper We were early adopters of one of We were 1784 01:42:49,900 --> 01:42:54,390 probably as much as we were about aesthetics, form, culture, 1785 01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:58,230 politics. We were to do anything. 1786 01:42:58,240 --> 01:43:00,090 You have to create your own tools. 1787 01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:05,500 Yes. Any great artist, any great 1788 01:43:05,510 --> 01:43:07,680 engineer, you're creating your own tools. 1789 01:43:07,690 --> 01:43:11,160 So we were, we were writing our own scripts, we were creating 1790 01:43:11,170 --> 01:43:14,520 our own tools to do by Reval. You had to write computer 1791 01:43:14,530 --> 01:43:19,650 technology to do that. You couldn't do it, just you 1792 01:43:19,660 --> 01:43:22,820 needed to innovate. And so we had people who joined 1793 01:43:22,830 --> 01:43:28,550 us who Aerial White, Aerial Cook, he had, he was a student 1794 01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:31,170 who ended up going to these people end up going to Harvard. 1795 01:43:31,180 --> 01:43:37,590 Betty Wong went to Harvard, Ariel went to Penn Yvonne Ivan 1796 01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:42,410 did a Masters of Business at Ryerson while he worked for us 1797 01:43:42,420 --> 01:43:44,350 after having done his architecture degree. 1798 01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:50,530 These were extraordinary people and they they, they really 1799 01:43:50,540 --> 01:43:52,490 helped our firm in the beginning and they ended up going on 1800 01:43:52,500 --> 01:43:55,450 amazing play. Other person Ariel Weiss is now 1801 01:43:55,580 --> 01:44:01,940 He is at Yale right now. And and as it stands now, what 1802 01:44:03,030 --> 01:44:06,700 types of projects with what kind of global reach are under the 1803 01:44:06,710 --> 01:44:12,970 umbrella of partisans? So we have had nothing short of 1804 01:44:13,040 --> 01:44:22,240 a blessed three years. So in 2023, after the 1805 01:44:22,310 --> 01:44:26,700 partnership dissolved and I took over partisans on my own, Yep, 1806 01:44:27,050 --> 01:44:30,910 we picked up an enormous amount of work helping our Canada, 1807 01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:33,010 which we're rolling out this year. 1808 01:44:33,080 --> 01:44:34,310 Yep. And. 1809 01:44:34,360 --> 01:44:35,410 Congratulations. Thank you. 1810 01:44:35,420 --> 01:44:40,730 Exciting. We also had other projects on 1811 01:44:40,740 --> 01:44:45,220 the go with real estate developers hours. 1812 01:44:45,270 --> 01:44:47,050 Elm Street came through the office. 1813 01:44:49,190 --> 01:44:58,600 We we won a RFP and to do the design work for Live Nation on 1814 01:44:58,950 --> 01:45:02,640 the Ontario Place project, we're partnered with Gansler on that. 1815 01:45:04,570 --> 01:45:05,920 Unbelievable. Yeah. 1816 01:45:05,930 --> 01:45:08,240 I would say so. And for for. 1817 01:45:08,250 --> 01:45:10,400 Those that are unaware of that, I mean, you might be aware of 1818 01:45:10,410 --> 01:45:13,060 Air Canada if you're listening, but like, if you're not familiar 1819 01:45:13,070 --> 01:45:17,510 with Live Nation and the Ontario Place, yeah, you gotta know 1820 01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:19,020 that. Like it's an institution for 1821 01:45:19,030 --> 01:45:23,750 concerts in Toronto life. Changing commissions have have 1822 01:45:23,760 --> 01:45:31,260 been won, and we won our first international project with an 1823 01:45:31,270 --> 01:45:34,320 incredible benefactor in the United States based out of 1824 01:45:34,450 --> 01:45:39,960 Puerto Rico and Boston, WHO is a genius, Incredible. 1825 01:45:39,970 --> 01:45:41,570 We're gonna build the music foundation for him. 1826 01:45:41,580 --> 01:45:43,460 It's his legacy you're working with. 1827 01:45:44,440 --> 01:45:47,090 Siri. Yeah, I'm working with Sherry, 1828 01:45:47,100 --> 01:45:48,770 which. We haven't even mentioned we. 1829 01:45:48,780 --> 01:45:51,410 Haven't even mentioned. So for those listening, Shari's 1830 01:45:51,420 --> 01:45:54,050 also my sister-in-law there. You go also an architect. 1831 01:45:54,120 --> 01:45:56,550 Yes, Sherry. And she's fantastic. 1832 01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:59,750 She's amazing. She's the project manager for IT 1833 01:45:59,820 --> 01:46:03,990 and she's an architect here in Toronto, keeping us on our toes, 1834 01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:08,390 keeping us honest. Had some wonderful travel with 1835 01:46:08,400 --> 01:46:10,540 Sherry. She's really charismatic. 1836 01:46:10,550 --> 01:46:11,410 I like her. Yeah. 1837 01:46:11,470 --> 01:46:15,450 And that's great. So we're working on that 1838 01:46:15,460 --> 01:46:19,320 project, Yeah. And it was just so thrilling to 1839 01:46:19,330 --> 01:46:25,350 win that. So thrilling, just like it's 1840 01:46:25,360 --> 01:46:28,380 been a hard, you know, to get to a point where you're winning 1841 01:46:28,390 --> 01:46:30,720 projects. Yeah, it's so hard, man. 1842 01:46:31,010 --> 01:46:32,570 Well. I mean, I don't know where. 1843 01:46:32,580 --> 01:46:34,990 Your next project coming from your, your financing, the 1844 01:46:35,000 --> 01:46:37,600 company you're, it's really hard. 1845 01:46:37,850 --> 01:46:40,970 It's really hard. That's why I do this podcast. 1846 01:46:41,050 --> 01:46:43,970 It's really hard. Because it's important to 1847 01:46:43,980 --> 01:46:46,210 understand the foundations of all the things that have 1848 01:46:46,220 --> 01:46:49,440 happened in someone's life to be able to take on the 1849 01:46:49,450 --> 01:46:53,050 responsibility of hiring staff, being responsible for putting 1850 01:46:53,060 --> 01:46:55,490 food on the on the plate of those people. 1851 01:46:55,840 --> 01:47:00,310 Because you have to win work and winning work and the environment 1852 01:47:00,380 --> 01:47:03,950 that exists largely here in Canada, but beyond and I would 1853 01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:07,250 say more. Competitive qualities of this 1854 01:47:07,300 --> 01:47:13,930 field question and architecture is it is corrosive I. 1855 01:47:13,940 --> 01:47:15,630 Just. Ferocious competition I. 1856 01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:17,960 Just found out two days ago and we were talking about this 1857 01:47:17,970 --> 01:47:24,650 before we hit record, but that the design many, I mean this, 1858 01:47:24,660 --> 01:47:29,670 the supply, the construction industry, all-encompassing 1859 01:47:29,680 --> 01:47:33,240 engineering and all the consultants globally, it's a $13 1860 01:47:33,250 --> 01:47:37,690 trillion industry. And if I'm wrong on that based 1861 01:47:37,700 --> 01:47:39,570 on my research, feel free to reach out to me and tell me that 1862 01:47:39,580 --> 01:47:40,610 I'm wrong. You're right. 1863 01:47:40,620 --> 01:47:45,690 But 13 trillion it, it, it is larger, is a larger industry 1864 01:47:45,780 --> 01:47:48,300 than pharma. It's a larger industry than the 1865 01:47:48,310 --> 01:47:50,040 automotive industry. I don't know if it's the 1866 01:47:50,050 --> 01:47:53,130 largest, but it's finance. Finance and finance. 1867 01:47:53,140 --> 01:47:54,930 Banking, it's got to be the industry. 1868 01:47:56,480 --> 01:48:01,420 Energy is bigger than energy is bigger than construction. 1869 01:48:01,690 --> 01:48:04,620 Energy plays into construction. No, but as. 1870 01:48:04,630 --> 01:48:05,750 A. As yes as a second. 1871 01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:10,310 Energy as a fair segment I believe, but it's top 3 or 4. 1872 01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:13,100 Yeah. My guess is, it's my guess is 1873 01:48:13,110 --> 01:48:16,340 it's finance and banking, followed by energy, 1874 01:48:16,350 --> 01:48:18,790 infrastructure and then and then construction. 1875 01:48:19,990 --> 01:48:21,900 Because construction touches everything, right? 1876 01:48:21,950 --> 01:48:24,160 Banking touches everything. Energy touches everything. 1877 01:48:24,290 --> 01:48:27,510 I mean, it's pretty to me, Alex is having heard now. 1878 01:48:27,570 --> 01:48:30,130 You know, we've known each other for a couple of years, and I 1879 01:48:30,140 --> 01:48:31,630 actually known each other. Yeah. 1880 01:48:31,640 --> 01:48:34,290 And I never knew all of this. But to small world, small 1881 01:48:34,300 --> 01:48:38,070 circles, Yeah. But to know that you start out 1882 01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:41,230 with some, you know, some serious challenges in life and 1883 01:48:41,240 --> 01:48:44,570 potentially an uncertain direction of where you're gonna 1884 01:48:44,580 --> 01:48:49,230 land to land. Working now on design work for I 1885 01:48:49,240 --> 01:48:53,410 know you like music, so to be able to work on something like 1886 01:48:53,420 --> 01:48:56,310 Live Nation, to be able to work on international projects 1887 01:48:56,440 --> 01:49:00,450 related to music, but then also, you know, the Canadian Crown 1888 01:49:00,460 --> 01:49:03,300 corporation of Air Canada. Well, it's not a crown 1889 01:49:03,310 --> 01:49:06,860 corporation. OK, maybe it's not defined as 1890 01:49:06,870 --> 01:49:08,900 one no I. I actually want a crown Corp, 1891 01:49:08,910 --> 01:49:11,670 but our first crown corporation Commission, we won it in the 1892 01:49:11,680 --> 01:49:15,710 last two months and it was announced on April 28th, just 1893 01:49:15,720 --> 01:49:18,280 two days ago. OK, I'm allowed. 1894 01:49:18,690 --> 01:49:21,280 It's been posted by the Premier's office and the 1895 01:49:21,290 --> 01:49:25,000 Minister of Labour, but we won what I think is like hallowed 1896 01:49:25,010 --> 01:49:29,000 ground rail style project or did you win? 1897 01:49:29,010 --> 01:49:34,340 We won the Commission to design the workers construction workers 1898 01:49:34,350 --> 01:49:38,310 memorial for Ontario at the at the legislature at Queens Park. 1899 01:49:38,320 --> 01:49:41,030 Crazy. And that's like a forever, 1900 01:49:41,800 --> 01:49:44,490 that's a forever Commission. That's a that's a crown 1901 01:49:44,500 --> 01:49:48,410 corporation extremely relevant to our profession. 1902 01:49:48,480 --> 01:49:51,540 Yes, very relevant. In terms of placement, it's 1903 01:49:51,550 --> 01:49:56,290 right there on University Ave. In the most important city in 1904 01:49:56,300 --> 01:50:02,530 Canada, at least economically. And it may not be the biggest 1905 01:50:02,540 --> 01:50:06,340 project, but to win anything public in Canada for a young 1906 01:50:06,350 --> 01:50:07,710 firm? Yeah, like ours. 1907 01:50:07,720 --> 01:50:13,290 Like even 12 years old. 13 years old, that's a baby in 1908 01:50:13,300 --> 01:50:17,310 architectural world, but to win that has been an honor of her 1909 01:50:17,320 --> 01:50:19,490 career so far. Like just it's a small project, 1910 01:50:19,500 --> 01:50:22,080 a couple 1,000,000 bucks, but like in terms of construction 1911 01:50:22,090 --> 01:50:25,750 costs, but like it's so meaningful, right? 1912 01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:28,370 And so solemn. And to have been there with the 1913 01:50:28,380 --> 01:50:33,730 Premier and him and the Minister of Labour and people who've lost 1914 01:50:33,740 --> 01:50:37,320 their brothers and sisters and construction, yeah, speak. 1915 01:50:37,450 --> 01:50:41,480 And then for me to be asked to say something, I mean, it was 1916 01:50:41,490 --> 01:50:44,720 like speaking at someone else's eulogy, right? 1917 01:50:45,010 --> 01:50:46,540 It was. That's weird. 1918 01:50:46,550 --> 01:50:47,660 Powerful. Yeah. 1919 01:50:47,670 --> 01:50:50,500 Yeah. And so humbling, yeah. 1920 01:50:50,510 --> 01:50:51,920 How do you find the right words to be? 1921 01:50:51,930 --> 01:50:54,840 Yeah, that that would I was. Careful. 1922 01:50:55,330 --> 01:50:57,070 Say I would not say much. Let's just. 1923 01:50:57,080 --> 01:51:00,210 Say this, it wasn't about beating my chest and it was 1924 01:51:00,220 --> 01:51:03,060 about giving their family and next of kin. 1925 01:51:03,070 --> 01:51:07,540 Yeah, respect and honor and and frankly making the government 1926 01:51:07,550 --> 01:51:08,740 look good. Yeah. 1927 01:51:08,790 --> 01:51:10,360 Because this is an ambitious design. 1928 01:51:10,370 --> 01:51:12,160 They picked really ambitious, right. 1929 01:51:12,170 --> 01:51:16,700 It's, it's a, it's an algorithmically inspired, very 1930 01:51:16,710 --> 01:51:21,820 ambitious project. And anyway, we didn't talk about 1931 01:51:22,670 --> 01:51:26,060 memorials, but memorials are really important to architects. 1932 01:51:26,450 --> 01:51:29,300 To them, some of the most memorable, some of the most 1933 01:51:29,310 --> 01:51:32,090 recognized elements of architectural history are 1934 01:51:32,100 --> 01:51:32,980 memorials. I. 1935 01:51:32,990 --> 01:51:35,380 Mean, look, there's there's another element that we haven't 1936 01:51:35,390 --> 01:51:40,620 really even touched on that is a whole other conversation. 1937 01:51:40,630 --> 01:51:42,810 So maybe I have to go to Europe and then come back and have this 1938 01:51:42,820 --> 01:51:43,960 conversation. You might have to have. 1939 01:51:43,970 --> 01:51:50,260 But I will just add this because I and I again, I don't want to 1940 01:51:50,270 --> 01:51:54,570 go into it just based on time, but there's a whole other side 1941 01:51:54,580 --> 01:51:57,350 of your business that we don't even, we haven't even discussed 1942 01:51:57,360 --> 01:51:58,690 in entrepreneurship. Yes. 1943 01:51:58,980 --> 01:52:02,890 So if you're listening to this, my recommendation to you is that 1944 01:52:02,900 --> 01:52:05,850 if you're interested in learning more that we haven't touched on 1945 01:52:05,860 --> 01:52:08,460 yet, head over to the Partisan website. 1946 01:52:09,550 --> 01:52:12,140 You can see a lot of what's going on there. 1947 01:52:12,430 --> 01:52:15,120 There are in different forms of media that whatever you might 1948 01:52:15,130 --> 01:52:19,480 follow, you can find. As you've heard Alex, Alex is a 1949 01:52:21,300 --> 01:52:24,770 very interested in all the ambitions that he takes on. 1950 01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:26,590 I'm saying this in third person with you. 1951 01:52:26,600 --> 01:52:32,090 Yeah, I'm right here, buddy. So, so I hope that you enjoyed 1952 01:52:32,100 --> 01:52:34,410 it, Alex, Thank you for taking so much time to do this today. 1953 01:52:34,420 --> 01:52:36,870 It's been it's been a joy to chatting with you about all of 1954 01:52:36,940 --> 01:52:40,390 all of the successes in the trials and tribulations that 1955 01:52:40,400 --> 01:52:42,550 you've experienced in your life to be able to land where you are 1956 01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:44,730 now is that we. Barely scratched the surface, 1957 01:52:44,740 --> 01:52:45,750 no. How do you? 1958 01:52:45,760 --> 01:52:47,970 How do you architecture? Is so slow, and that's the 1959 01:52:47,980 --> 01:52:51,330 difference. It's so slow and it's, it's a 1960 01:52:51,340 --> 01:52:55,400 miracle that anything beautiful gets built because time, time is 1961 01:52:55,410 --> 01:52:56,500 tough. Yeah. 1962 01:52:56,570 --> 01:52:58,720 But I enjoyed. What's great is that you're 1963 01:52:58,730 --> 01:53:02,250 you're doing this in Toronto and it's a lovely space to be able 1964 01:53:02,260 --> 01:53:04,900 to speak in and you're in construction. 1965 01:53:04,910 --> 01:53:07,480 I think, you know, there's so many more things we can talk 1966 01:53:07,490 --> 01:53:11,090 about, but yeah, architects can do a lot. 1967 01:53:11,710 --> 01:53:16,460 Bricks and bites. So come to partisans.com 1968 01:53:17,940 --> 01:53:21,310 Partisans Architecture on Instagram Cumulus dot world for 1969 01:53:21,320 --> 01:53:24,060 memorialization. Look us up. 1970 01:53:24,140 --> 01:53:25,460 Send us a note. Yeah. 1971 01:53:25,470 --> 01:53:27,840 Tell us what you love. Tell us what you hate, say hi 1972 01:53:27,930 --> 01:53:29,460 and I'm. Gonna feature some of the work 1973 01:53:29,470 --> 01:53:35,200 that Alex wants to on the issue for construction podcast 1974 01:53:35,210 --> 01:53:37,600 Instagram. And I would have just asked one 1975 01:53:37,610 --> 01:53:40,140 other thing. If you're here right now, you 1976 01:53:40,150 --> 01:53:43,320 know a little bit of help does goes a long way. 1977 01:53:43,590 --> 01:53:46,500 You can give this podcast 5 stars wherever you're listening. 1978 01:53:46,570 --> 01:53:51,100 It helps with some level of other people's ability to see 1979 01:53:51,110 --> 01:53:54,450 it. So with that said, thanks for 1980 01:53:54,460 --> 01:53:57,390 listening. Great job.