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What's up guys? 
And welcome to the Meatball 

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Minded Podcast, the podcast 
where we talk all things 

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tabletop gaming. 
My name is Jason. 

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I'm James. 
And I'm Ant. 

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How are you doing this week, 
gentlemen? 

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Magic, Sir. 
You're not gentlemen. 

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You're not gentlemen. 
You're actually. 

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I am. 
I can't speak to the 2. 

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People, I don't know about you. 
You're the one that causes me 

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problems. 
I'm trying to record James is 

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causing me problems because the 
computer's working fine and then

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James turns up and it stops and 
then we finally get it working 

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and then you tell me that it's 
not working and there's a 

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massive crack in the screen, but
there isn't a crack. 

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I can't believe that actually 
works, I'm not going to lie. 

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But yes, how are you both? 
It's been what, 2-2 weeks since 

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we were last here. 
Been up to much gaming, gaming, 

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gaming. 
We have done quite a bit of 

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gaming. 
We have done a fair bit. 

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Yeah, it's been a fair bit. 
You've done some more, I 

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believe. 
Have you met up with your other 

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group play as well? 
I'm sure I saw pictures that you

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played. 
Oh, yes. 

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
But yeah, so you, you've been 

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playing some games. 
We've been playing some games. 

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I was half expecting him just to
go. 

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No. 
What you talking about? 

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Yeah. 
No, no, I did. 

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Making up posts on his own 
thing. 

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Yeah, I've got I just. 
I just set up. 

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I just set up and put multiple 
hands on there. 

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Actually, mine edited. 
Yeah, No, I did. 

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You're right. 
Latest podcasting come round and

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we played an old game. 
We played, we they were quite 

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like. 
That's nice. 

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Well, obviously we are going to 
talk about some games we've been

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playing recently, of course, as 
well as our main topic for this 

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one. 
There's no meat or menu because 

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that's literally all we're going
to be talking about this week. 

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When I pitched this one to you 
guys, I know it was an easy sell

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for you, James, because you're 
the inspiration behind this 

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particular topical discussion 
and you found it a bit daunting 

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and interesting. 
Yeah, I don't know how I'm gonna

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go with this, but yeah, well, 
I'll take a bit by bit and I'll 

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throw my two cents in and see 
what happens. 

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I love how he says it's an easy 
sell. 

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It's like he's taking a 
throwaway comment of mine made 

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the top made. 
The entire episode made the. 

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Entire episode, I think, well, 
what I ain't got anything to say

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about it's. 
A good idea, It's a good idea. 

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It's a great. 
Idea because when it absolutely 

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bombs, it's a terrible episode. 
It's James's fault. 

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OK, you know, I wasn't going to.
I wasn't going to go that. 

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Far, but I will. 
I will, I will shift the blame 

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as quickly as I possibly can. 
So James, this is your fault. 

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And obviously, if this is an 
amazing episode, it was all my 

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idea. 
You may have made an offhand 

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comment, but I saw the 
potential. 

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Either way, Jason wins. 
Either way, I. 

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Win Jason Clarkson. 
I agree exactly exactly. 

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Sometimes my genius is it's 
almost frightening. 

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I struggled to find him a name 
for for this episode. 

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Right. 
So I'm settling on something 

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like, are we drowning in top 
quality games? 

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Board game overload. 
Board game overload Is the 

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golden era over Are we drowning?
Whatever you want to call it, 

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we're talking about the games 
released recently basically not 

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being up to par or up to the 
standard to which we've become a

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customer over the years. 
Now I've done some digging, I've

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done some stats. 
Would you believe I've actually 

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done some prep work? 
Would you believe it? 

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Would you believe it? 
And it took me a fair to me. 

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It took me a little while to 
actually do it because I wanted 

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to be as accurate as I possibly 
could. 

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So I've got some facts for you. 
OK, Some interesting facts 

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James, you mentioned when we 
were doing our top fives the the

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the 2025 games just didn't seem 
as good as previous years. 

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So the fact is in 2025 the 
industry saw over 6000 new 

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titles of those 6000 and mere 
270 of them managed to achieve a

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rating of 7.6 or higher on BGG. 
So 7.6 is deemed. 

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Good. 
Good enough for them. 

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Good enough, above average, but 
just good. 

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It's only when you start going 
8/8 and 1/2 that games are 

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starting to look as all these 
are very good or exceptional 

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and, and stuff like that. 
So yeah, 270 out of 6000 games, 

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it's not a great turn around on 
numbers. 

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That's less than 4%. 
I also looked at 2017, which a 

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lot of people look at as one of 
the best years in modern hobby 

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board gaming where only 3500 
games. 

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So just yeah, pretty much half 
and 380 of those achieved A6, A 

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7.6 or higher in the same time 
frame. 

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I've sort of drafted some 
questions to try and get the 

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conversation going, I guess. 
But I've got some other facts 

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from 2023-2024 because you also 
mentioned those particular years

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and there's some interesting 
stats coming out from those as 

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well. 
But just on those facts that 

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I've given you there, guys, what
are your initial thoughts on the

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whole thing of there's just not 
as many good games now? 

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It's very again, this is A to 
and fro topic really, isn't it? 

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Because it's the same thing with
movies in a way like thousands 

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of movies give, you know, out 
come out a year and only so many

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of those are deemed good 
quality. 

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But for some of us, that crummy 
game could be really an 8 for 

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us, for example. 
So we always talk on here like 

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we used to do a new segment on 
here, didn't we? 

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And every time we did that, it 
was always about a board game 

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company going out of business or
tariffs or, you know, changing 

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everything. 
At the end of the day, 6000 

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games still came out. 
That's still pretty good go in 

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today's economy. 
So again, for me, it's A to and 

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fro way of it. 6000 games, OK, 
3/4 of them not great, but 

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there's still 6000 games that 
came out. 

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Yeah. 
I don't think that's a bad good 

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going to be honest. 
I see. 

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I, I, I take the opposite stance
from that. 

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It's like that's to me is 
massive over saturation. 

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Over saturation. 
If you've in five years, you 

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need doubled the output and the 
amount that are deemed as good 

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has gone up by what, 20? 
Wrong Sir, wrong. 

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I misheard those stats. 
Yeah. 

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But that's what I'm saying only 
BGG has done that. 

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Like we could take the whole 
6000 lot and we could probably 

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say 40% of that is 8 point 
whatever. 

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Yeah, we're we're just going on 
to their statistics. 

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That's what I'm trying to get 
with the. 

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Film critics and stuff. 
And that, that's the thing that 

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we do have to mention because 
I'm actually the first to admit 

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I am not a fan of the way that 
BGG does their their ratings. 

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It is a community based thing, 
but you can't really 

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realistically do that with the 
community that uses BGG because 

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the people that use BGG are the 
hardcore gamers and they're not 

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going to enjoy lighter weight 
games, which means they're not 

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going to stand a chance. 
So there is an element of bias 

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there just from from where the 
stats come. 

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But BGG is the sort of go to 
place to find out the stat, 

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these kind of stats. 
Now, I, for me, I, I, I'm sort 

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of leaning a little bit more 
towards James's side of things 

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here, but also see some of the 
points there you are. 

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And I think there's some very 
good points on either side here 

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because I think the output at 
the moment is too much. 

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I think 6000 plus games per year
is too much and it's way too 

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much market saturation. 
I prefer quality over quantity, 

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for example, and one of the 
companies, Anne, that I know 

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both you and me have a bit of a 
soft spot for. 

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Yeah, I'm actually here to say 
I've actually got some issues 

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with them recently. 
Is actually Devio Games OK Now, 

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there was a period where Devio 
Games just could not go wrong. 

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Everything they were putting out
was just quality. 

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Banger, banger, banger, banger. 
I can't say that for the last 

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couple of years, like it's sort 
of like banger, meh, banger, 

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meh. 
Whereas there was a point where 

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it's like we, we released three 
titles a year and it's banger, 

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banger, banger. 
Now it's, oh, we're releasing 6 

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or 7 a year. 
You might get one or two bangers

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in there and the rest are just 
meh. 

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So that company for me has gone 
down the route of quantity over 

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quality. 
They're they're not putting as 

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much thought and effort into 
producing the amazing games that

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I know they're capable of. 
There is something also to be 

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said, and we've touched on this 
in previous episodes, where once

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a company, like you said, 
releases one or two smash hits, 

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people have an expectation that 
every product that rolls off 

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their production line is going 
to be 10 out of 10. 

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And it's like you, you sit 
there. 

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It's like sometimes I have to 
sort of say to people, take a 

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step back because if you're 
saying it's like really good 

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meh, to me, meh is average. 
So I would expect a company to 

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mostly put out average games. 
It's sort of that people can 

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only have so many ideas, and 
only so many of those ideas are 

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going to produce good games. 
It's almost an unrealistic 

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expectation to sort of go, 
right, you've produced three 

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games, they've all been Smash 
hits, right? 

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Everything you produce is going 
to be golden. 

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I mean that that's, that's an 
interesting 1 though, because it

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sort of leads onto one of the 
questions I had and that is, are

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we spoiled by the games that 
have come out in years gone by? 

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You know, we talk about 2017. 
There was some absolute stonkers

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that year, if memory serves 
correctly. 

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You had Spirit Island, you had 
Gloom Haven, you know, some 

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really big hitters that are 
still with us to this day. 

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You know, they have become 
Evergreen games. 

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You know, have we been spoiled 
by previous years where we've 

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gone, my God, this game's the 
best thing since sliced bread. 

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You know, there was a, there was
a point where Scythe was one of 

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those and everything was 
measured up because, well, it's 

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not as good as Scythe. 
Well, it may not be as because 

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Scythe was an absolute banger. 
Still is. 

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If you ignore Scythe, what do 
you forget Scythe exists? 

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Forget you've ever played it? 
What do you think of this game 

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as a stand alone? 
Imagine you've never played 

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another game before. 
Suddenly that game becomes the 

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new Scythe. 
Actually, this is pretty damn 

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good, you know. 
Is it because we've had our 

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Yeah, because you've got that, 
You've got that amazing movie 

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you've been to see End Game and 
then Marvel kept releasing 

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movies and they were just trash.
Are they trash? 

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Or is it because we've had Phase
1? 

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You know, it's the and everyone.
'S going to go this. 

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These are the bangers. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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You know, because we've become, 
in my eyes, spoiled by having so

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many years of bangers from all 
these different companies. 

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Is that a reason we now look at 
games as yeah, they're not, 

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They're not, they're not the 
best, you know, Yeah, they're 

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not Evergreen games. 
Every industry has like a lull, 

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you know, or a slum. 
But it's like, like I said, we 

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touched on it in our innovation 
episode where it's like you 

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can't expect companies to 
constantly be innovative, bring 

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out the the latest hotness 
because it's like ideas take 

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time to develop. 
And it's like, well, they still 

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need to make money in the 
meantime. 

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And it's like you're not going 
to get an innovative new 

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mechanic or something every, 
every release. 

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It's like they take time to 
develop. 

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It's like, it would be an 
interesting one to talk to some 

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of these game developers and go,
OK, so you used to cite an 

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example. 
How long was that in development

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before you hit release? 
Yeah, yeah. 

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And that's, that is something 
that I think publishers do have 

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to consider now is like 
development costs money. 

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You know, a long development 
time is going to cost money 

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without any kind of return. 
And when we're in this, let's be

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honest, crowded marketplace now,
because there's thousands of 

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publishers, you've got to 
compete with indie promotions 

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00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,680
using the likes of Kickstarter 
to bring their games out as 

225
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,400
well. 
You know, so there, there are 

226
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,080
probably close to 100,000 ways 
of getting games to the market. 

227
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:09,080
Not saying they all happen, but 
it's, it's a, it's a very 

228
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:14,360
crammed marketplace with regards
to ways to get games out. 

229
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:21,560
So is that affecting their 
ability to sort of go, no, we 

230
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:25,320
need to put more time into 
developing this before we put it

231
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,200
to the market because they're 
not going down the the 

232
00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,480
crowdfunding route where you 
could probably get away with 

233
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,480
going. 
The game's not quite ready. 

234
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,000
We're going to take a little bit
of extra time. 

235
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,640
It's going to be delayed. 
Yeah. 

236
00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,000
You're going to get some moans 
about it. 

237
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,760
But it's a, it's a Kickstarter 
game Publishers don't always 

238
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,600
have that, especially if they 
announce their games in advance.

239
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,280
As soon as the game is announced
from a publisher, it's like, 

240
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,200
well, when's it coming? 
I want it now. 

241
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,160
Like what? 
Why wasn't it in my Calyx 

242
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:54,280
yesterday? 
Yeah. 

243
00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,080
I mean, this is, this is very 
comparable to the video game 

244
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:00,600
industry, isn't it? 
Like does. 

245
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,920
That say that as well. 
You know the games. 

246
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,240
That was like GTA 6, isn't it? 
It's like I think it was leaked 

247
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,840
one day, announced like a couple
of days later, and it was like 

248
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:12,400
why? 
Why don't I own it yet? 

249
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,080
Where is it? 
Is that well, did you watch the 

250
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,960
leaked footage? 
It's janky. 

251
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,360
As hell. 
Yeah, well, it's like it's 

252
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,080
Planet Coaster 2, you know, a 
game that you and me are very 

253
00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,240
familiar with. 
And like you said, it's like 

254
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:34,200
taking the punt on maybe should 
have put it back by about six 

255
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,400
months its release date. 
And sort. 

256
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:39,120
Of thing. 
But yeah, it's like the games 

257
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,720
that stick with you take years 
to develop. 

258
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,160
And yeah, ball games have got to
be, you know, their complexity. 

259
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,800
They've got to be up there, you 
know, 2-3 years development 

260
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,040
before they come out. 
So it's like, yeah, there's 

261
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,640
going eventually there's going 
to be a slump. 

262
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,480
Take into account the, like, 
economic conditions and the fact

263
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,920
that studios having to let go of
staff to keep afloat. 

264
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,000
And it's like, well, that's 
going to push development and 

265
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,480
lead times up. 
It's like, yeah. 

266
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,080
What about you and do you think 
development has has suffered in 

267
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,680
the last few years? 
I mean as consumers, we don't 

268
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,320
really see that side of the 
business I guess. 

269
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,640
But do do you think it's 
something that they're skipping?

270
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,400
Yeah, I mean, it's back to what 
James said, though with the 

271
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,000
video game stuff, I think 
sometimes studios are rushing to

272
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,960
get it out for next year's Essen
because obviously two months 

273
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,080
after that you've got four 
games, busiest time of the year,

274
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,240
Christmas. 
So I mean, we took that into 

275
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,080
consideration going back to the 
V when we were at Essen, they 

276
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,480
had this year's releases and 
they had a glass cabinet with 

277
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,200
all the next year's stuff for 
next year's Essen. 

278
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,680
So you got a glimpse of it and 
you knew what was coming. 

279
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,960
So you have to ask yourself, has
that just been in development 

280
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,840
for this long, or is it 
something they're rushing out to

281
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:51,840
just get out for next year's 
essence? 

282
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,880
And that's not just the very, 
that's obviously with other 

283
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,480
companies and stuff, but it's 
very, yeah, it's like James 

284
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,880
said, it's very much with the 
video game industry nowadays, 

285
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,880
Russia, it could be a case of 
Russians start to get out. 

286
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,240
Or do we leave it aside, play 
test it a bit more and make it a

287
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,280
banger? 
You've raised a good point like 

288
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,000
the the two largest conventions 
will say yes and and Gen Con, 

289
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,920
you know, publishers really gun 
for those and that's a massive 

290
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,520
time to release games. 
And it's sort of it also plays 

291
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,920
into another one of the the 
questions I actually wrote down 

292
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:32,000
with regards to the release of 
games and how the community 

293
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,240
actually perceives those games 
from the initial release. 

294
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,000
Because it it's kind of what I 
sort of refer it as like the 

295
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,560
it's kind of a bigger thing, but
it's like the TikTok effect. 

296
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:49,000
You know, our attention spans 
are getting so bad now. 

297
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,600
You know, there's a reason that 
shorts on YouTube and TikTok 

298
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,360
videos are the go to thing 
because it's 30 seconds. 

299
00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,000
It's kind of the same with 
games. 

300
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,160
People who are only are not 
interested in playing a game so 

301
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,000
many times that it becomes an 
Evergreen game. 

302
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,079
Now they're interested in 
playing oh, I'll play this game.

303
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:11,640
Yeah, once. 
Yeah, done next, next, next, 

304
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,760
next. 
It's called like a supermarket 

305
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,160
till of games. 
You know, we've got into this 

306
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,200
period now where some 
publishers, you know, have done 

307
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,280
this sort of research and 
realise that the shelf life of 

308
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:29,720
a, a brand new board game now 
has gone from maybe one to two 

309
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,520
years down to about three to 
four months. 

310
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,120
Especially with Ants Collection.
Because if he doesn't play a 

311
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:38,880
game within 10 seconds of it 
arriving, it has to be sold. 

312
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,760
Absolutely. 
You are single handedly 

313
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:44,920
responsible. 
You are. 

314
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,480
But no, I, I, while I I joke 
about that, the non joking side 

315
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:56,120
of it is, yeah, the shelf life 
of games is shocking, you know, 

316
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:59,640
and I'm guilty of it now, you 
know, I, I'm, I'm catching up 

317
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,600
with Anne. 
You know, a game comes in the 

318
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,520
collection and it sits on the 
shelf and I play it once, maybe 

319
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,560
twice, and I'm like, cannot 
really be bothered to, you know,

320
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,600
keep it on the shelf and play it
again. 

321
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:12,720
I, I get out my soapbox and run 
around. 

322
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,960
It's just the life everyone, 
everyone wants to be. 

323
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,000
Now, now, now, now and then as 
soon as they've got it, it's all

324
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,600
right. 
What's next, Next, next? 

325
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,000
Are you saying there's 6000 
games out recently? 

326
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,240
It's a case of keeping up with 
what's coming out because 

327
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,520
sometimes you you guys are my go
to for win stuffs. 

328
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:31,680
Come. 
Do you remember we did an 

329
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,640
episode last year about the top 
five games we were looking 

330
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,400
forward to in 2025. 
I could barely scrape 5 in 

331
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,000
January because I didn't know 
what was coming out. 

332
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,280
And now you were saying there 
was 6000 coming out that year. 

333
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,400
It's just like I'm I'm unbeknown
to it. 

334
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,040
So but I think we're always 
looking for. 

335
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,480
I wouldn't say the next banger 
because I'd rather the banger 

336
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,400
come to me. 
I just want to play games and if

337
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,960
something strikes my interest 
for my theme, my mechanism or 

338
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:56,840
the type of game it is, I'll go 
for it. 

339
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,440
But I'm always looking for 
something new to play. 

340
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,720
Always. 
But we always go back eventually

341
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,240
to older stuff, so. 
So would you agree with regards 

342
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,000
to the likes of Jane Con and 
Essen? 

343
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:14,160
If a game is released at Essen 
does well in the 1st 2448 hours,

344
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,880
that game has more of a chance 
of surviving and sticking around

345
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,520
long term than a game that 
doesn't. 

346
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:27,160
You know I, I genuinely feel the
first 48 hours of a game release

347
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:33,040
is vital for it's success 
because there's so many within 

348
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:38,320
our community that judge games 
on well how many other people 

349
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,360
are buying it? 
And then the only place that you

350
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:44,320
know how many people are buying 
it, it's something like a 

351
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,080
convention where it's very 
widely reported on. 

352
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,040
Is that something that is 
potentially affecting our 

353
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,400
warping our minds with regards 
to these games? 

354
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,320
I definitely I think so, but and
again, that's not limited to the

355
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,000
board game. 
I think that that would that 

356
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,440
could be any conventional 
anything that where where 

357
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,520
there's a lot of selling 
involved just like is that. 

358
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,000
Even a Kickstarter. 
And it's, yeah, that's a good. 

359
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,360
Kickstarter is a great example 
because how many times have we 

360
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:16,480
seen it reported that they, the 
people that run into 

361
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,280
Kickstarters, all say the same 
thing the first 48 hours? 

362
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,480
You basically if you don't run 
the first 48 hours, you might as

363
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,160
well cancel it, yeah. 
But I bet if you actually sat 

364
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,680
and watched it, the initial 
opening of that Kickstarter, 

365
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,360
you'll get a lot of people who 
are very everyone else is 

366
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:39,240
waiting for somebody else to be 
the fake the first move as oh, 

367
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,240
you know, how many how many 
pledges has it got? 

368
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,640
How many who's going to be the 
first? 

369
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,320
You know, it's like you've got 
to get the snowball rolling. 

370
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,960
And it's like you said, it's the
same at the cons. 

371
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,000
It's like everyone watching 
those big stands. 

372
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,720
It's like what's going what? 
What was everyone buying? 

373
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,080
I'm going back to Kickstarter 
and crowdfunding in general. 

374
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,440
It's not something that is my 
sort of deciding factor. 

375
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,000
But I'm also happy to say when I
look at crowdfunding, one of the

376
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,320
first things I do is, is it 
funded? 

377
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,680
How many backers has it got? 
Why? 

378
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,760
I don't need to know that I'm 
not making the game. 

379
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,560
That's that should be, that 
shouldn't even be something I 

380
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,720
should have access to, you know,
all right, maybe knowing if it's

381
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,040
funded, that's that's different.
How many backers? 

382
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,400
Yeah, but why do I need to know 
how many backers it's got? 

383
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,800
Why do I need to know how 
quickly it's funded? 

384
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,400
Because it's becoming, it's 
becoming grained in our minds 

385
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:42,160
that 48 hours is the key, you 
know, and it's, there's, there's

386
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,680
a reason that on this 
crowdfunding, as soon as it's 

387
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,000
back, it's oh, we, we, we 
succeeded in X amount of hours 

388
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,240
because there's, oh, that sounds
impressive. 

389
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,000
I must be. 
I must be missing out on 

390
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,680
something. 
Yeah, this is, it's good 

391
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,760
marketing and you know, it plays
into it, isn't it? 

392
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:01,600
It's like if a Kickstarter 
campaign can have on their front

393
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,440
page, funded in what, in less 
than an hour? 

394
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,800
Like for the really big ones, 
it's like, oh, that must be 

395
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,000
really. 
Oh, what's that? 

396
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,240
Yeah. 
It funded that quickly. 

397
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,120
Yeah, and I mean, that's why I 
personally say I think that 

398
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,640
transitions into real life and 
conventions, you know, because 

399
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,400
if that buzz of this game is hot
as hell, yes. 

400
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:29,040
I saw it on Facebook and I saw 
it on I saw it on BGG. 

401
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,680
It's in the hotness of BGG and 
it's only been out one day 

402
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,320
every. 
Content creators advertise and 

403
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,200
every. 
Content creator under the sun is

404
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,520
advertising it, you know, down 
those despicable content 

405
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,160
creators. 
But yeah, it, it's, it's that 

406
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,680
same 48 hour principle. 
Yeah. 

407
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,320
And I think that is another 
thing that does contribute to 

408
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,120
our mindsets of how good is a 
game. 

409
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,920
Yeah, The thing is I'm I'm very 
old school with my attitudes 

410
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,520
that as you well know, it's like
I'm very wary of the hype train 

411
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,960
and you, you 2 have both been to
conventions with me as like I'm 

412
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,960
tight fisted as hell with money.
It's like I because I don't 

413
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,720
board games is actually one of 
the one areas where I don't 

414
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,840
suffer from that must have it 
now. 

415
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,320
It's like, no, if I'm going to 
part with, let's be honest, a 

416
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,920
good chunk of change, this 
purchase has got to be worth it.

417
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,880
Not just because everyone's 
going whoa, it's the latest 

418
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,320
hotness. 
So James is James is amazing at 

419
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,360
giving me segues he doesn't even
know he's doing. 

420
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,160
Worth it, James, worth it. 
It's a very, very good. 

421
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,080
That's why he's here. 
Exactly. 

422
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,560
It's a very good set of words. 
I do my best work, I'm prepared.

423
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,720
But yeah, worth it. 
It's another it's another phrase

424
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,920
that I have to draw upon because
this is something that both me 

425
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:57,120
and them could be to blame for. 
Do you feel them that the 

426
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,800
operating on like a one in one 
eight out system? 

427
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,760
You know you buy a game means a 
game's got to go, because if you

428
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,880
buy, you know you will only buy 
that game if you deem it worthy 

429
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,320
of your collection. 
But I'm I'm very much a sucker 

430
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,760
for the opposite of what James 
said. 

431
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,480
How he how he has restraint, 
I've got no idea. 

432
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,400
He's got the willpower to do it.
I'm always. 

433
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,040
Only with board games. 
I must say that in other areas 

434
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,640
of life I have absolutely 0 
willpower and I will impulsed 

435
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,600
by. 
I'm an absolute sucker for it. 

436
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,480
Like, oh, the new Lord of the 
Rings game, that where? 

437
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,280
Where is it? 
Let me get it so. 

438
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,080
No. 
Don't don't know what the game's

439
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,240
about. 
It's just got Lord of the Rings,

440
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,080
remember? 
OK, I'll get it. 

441
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,560
I'm yeah, so I'm a massive 
soccer for it. 

442
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,840
I need to pace myself. 
Deep down, Ann, do you think 

443
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:47,480
whether it be from pressures of 
the community, pressures of the 

444
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,880
industry as a whole, do you 
think publishers are focusing 

445
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,360
more on quantity over quality, 
knowing that basically they have

446
00:24:56,360 --> 00:25:01,200
to make their money quickly with
the game release, knowing that 

447
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,280
it's basically going to be non 
existent in three to four 

448
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,040
months? 
Yeah. 

449
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,840
Yeah, again, it's just like I 
keep going back to it. 

450
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,520
It's like Movies Now, they are 
reboot after sequel and because 

451
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,680
they're no original ideas or 
anything like that at all. 

452
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,760
And I think this is what they're
kind of doing now. 

453
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,360
Oh, it's another worker 
placement. 

454
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:23,600
Oh, it's another racing game. 
It's just different themes. 

455
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,400
And oh, it's another pandemic 
game, completely different 

456
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,400
themes. 
But yeah, I, I feel there is a 

457
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,520
lack of, you know, quality at 
the moment. 

458
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,440
I mean, you, you saying 6000 
games last year, I don't think I

459
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,440
even saw a pinch of that 6000, 
I'll be honest with you. 

460
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:46,240
But yeah, I just, I, I don't 
want it to lack it, but I, I 

461
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,560
have been feeling it, yeah, 
quite recently. 

462
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,880
Yeah, the last the. 
Year before, like James says, 

463
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,840
much better games than words up 
to last year, definitely 2024. 

464
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,040
Sorry, I just don't hope it 
continues for that. 

465
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,640
But going back to what you were 
saying much earlier in the 

466
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,200
episode, how Banga no, no, no 
banga banga. 

467
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,120
That's the issue now, isn't it? 
Everyone is looking for the next

468
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:11,160
banger. 
Just. 

469
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,320
But do do you think going in 
looking for next bang is 

470
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,160
potentially an issue? 
Because you're going in wanting 

471
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,400
the game to be up here and when 
it falls slightly short, you 

472
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,280
know, say it's that age-old 
saying is that when you shoot 

473
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,920
for the stars, but you know, you
land on the moon, you've still 

474
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,520
made it. 
But if we're looking for the 

475
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,360
stars and we're getting a game 
that lands on the moon, it's not

476
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:39,080
hit that mark, which several 
means it's not an Evergreen 

477
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,160
game. 
Absolutely. 

478
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,040
It mean there's never going to 
be a game that beats Syth. 

479
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,320
There's never going to be a game
that beats Catan or whatever it 

480
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,400
is that everyone you know plays 
nowadays and stuff. 

481
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,600
There's always that one little 
one every now and then that will

482
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:54,480
just blow your mind and end up 
being in your top five 

483
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,040
distilled. 
And when that came out and you 

484
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,320
finally played it, my good God, 
I've never heard you talk about 

485
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:04,600
a game since couple more years 
beforehand, mate, that you were 

486
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,800
so, you know, in love with that 
game when it came out. 

487
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,320
And I've just never seen that 
love of games of all games and 

488
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,600
you for a very long time. 
So I, I kind of find that 

489
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,280
that's, that was your diamond in
the rough that year. 

490
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,680
Oh, £100. 
You know, I hope many years come

491
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,560
a little bit. 
If there is a lack of quantity 

492
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,400
of quality in it, then that. 
Well, let's say, well, I've been

493
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,000
from multiple game calls now and
there there's certain games I 

494
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,240
look at and it's like, yeah, a 
lot of them are are they're 

495
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,480
getting old now. 
You know, I still see Scythe up 

496
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,520
there. 
I see distilled, I see, you 

497
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,640
know, living forests. 
I mean, that's an old game now. 

498
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,560
Thunderbirds 50th year 
anniversary. 

499
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,240
I'm pretty sure they just 
celebrated their 60th. 

500
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,320
Yeah. 
You know, there's a lot of old 

501
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,840
games on these shelves now when 
I'm looking and I'm, you know, 

502
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,200
I'm looking at doing another 
cult. 

503
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,040
None of those games have even 
come close to getting on that 

504
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,000
list. 
They're all newer games. 

505
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,480
Seriously, I've heard like kind 
of what I was saying about like 

506
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,840
being difficult to buy games 
for. 

507
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:10,000
For me, it's like I wouldn't 
want to purchase a game unless I

508
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,440
honestly believed at that time 
of purchase this game is not 

509
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,680
going to be sold. 
There's even a hint of it. 

510
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:24,160
There's you saying about like 
board game, it's being released 

511
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,000
thick and fast. 
I almost think they have to as 

512
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,280
well. 
And it leans into what you were 

513
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,920
saying about the the must have 
it now because that happens with

514
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:37,840
hype as well. 
It's like, yeah, I gained funds 

515
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,640
in the first 48 hours hours of 
its Kickstarter. 

516
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,840
It's released Those first couple
of days off the release, 

517
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,040
everyone's talking about it 
within two weeks, everyone's 

518
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,040
like, what? 
What? 

519
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:49,360
Are you talking about? 
Yeah. 

520
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:50,480
Yeah. 
Well, again, yeah. 

521
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:52,880
And so they have to churn. 
Them. 

522
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,320
That's so old news now, yeah. 
They have to churn them out that

523
00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:00,040
quickly because. 
Yep, because of that attention 

524
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,720
span. 
Yeah, the attention retention is

525
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,200
is is terrible. 
You know, I, I could ask you 

526
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,360
what, what do you think will fix
the board game industry? 

527
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,920
But genuinely, I don't think 
there's an answer that we can 

528
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,360
really give to that. 
I I don't think you could fix 

529
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,960
the board game industry because 
all of these issues permeate 

530
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,280
life. 
Basically, there's not 

531
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,960
restricted to the board game 
industry. 

532
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,200
They that attitude runs through 
everything these days. 

533
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,640
Everything is built to be 
discarded. 

534
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,360
Quickly. 
So instead of asking that, let's

535
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,000
just be honest, frankly 
ridiculous question, I'll ask 

536
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,360
you another one and we'll go 
back to the convention thing as 

537
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,800
the example here. 
Let's say they've got to 

538
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:49,480
continue doing 6000 games a year
for whatever reason, fine, I'll 

539
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:55,560
accept it. 
Do those games or let's say 4000

540
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:00,640
of those games have to be 
released at 2 events, No2 

541
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,320
weekends every year? 
No, I don't think they do. 

542
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:10,760
Do I think or do you think this 
is the question, those games 

543
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:18,280
would stand a better chance at 
getting more recognised, more 

544
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,320
plays, more shelf life 
ultimately if they were released

545
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,520
throughout the year rather than 
that bomb here. 

546
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,320
Honestly, no. 
No. 

547
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,440
Advertising being my the biggest
thing with this because it's not

548
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,000
like you see adverts for board 
games on the telly, no. 

549
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,240
Because adverts are expensive. 
Only time you really see this is

550
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,600
when a content creator pushes it
or it's convention season and 

551
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,760
the convention pushes it or in 
relation. 

552
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,120
Basically free advertising 
because advertising, as we've 

553
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,880
said, is highly expensive. 
What's your thoughts on that 

554
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,720
You. 
Can go to your ways of it 

555
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,200
really. 
I mean, the biggest bangers, 

556
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,360
bangers, what I say are the ones
that come out at conventions and

557
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,880
stuff and all the others that 
come out for the rest of the 

558
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,080
year are what I like to call 
sleeper hits, if you will. 

559
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,640
We've had our fair share of 
those. 

560
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:18,200
And like even Moon, Moon Colony 
Bloodbath wasn't at any 

561
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,760
convention that literally came 
out weeks before Expo had come 

562
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,160
out. 
So that had no advertisement of 

563
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,480
nothing. 
And I like to, I like to find 

564
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,040
games that people don't know 
about. 

565
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,880
Like we you played a couple of 
mine recently you've never even 

566
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,200
heard of. 
I mean, they're remakes of old 

567
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,080
games. 
But still, you know, it's nice 

568
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,680
to have that little sleeper here
that no one knows about. 

569
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,800
And then you introduce the type 
of people and then it gets out 

570
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,280
like that. 
Well, I was literally about to 

571
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,280
say to you, it's like, but how 
much of that is a knock on 

572
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,920
effect? 
It might not be released at 

573
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,560
something like UKGE, but how 
many of those games take off 

574
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,680
after UKGE? 
Because a few people who have 

575
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,560
taken the punt on those mid year
releases bring it and people see

576
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,280
it being as a huge convention 
like that with lots of eyes on 

577
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,000
it and people then see it. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

578
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,600
So I also think and it's, it's 
not a marketing strategy I like.

579
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,840
In fact, I, I'm, I'm very 
against it in fact. 

580
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,800
But I have to admit, I see the 
benefits of it, and that is 

581
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,320
artificially creating demand. 
So at something like a 

582
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,440
convention, the game's you know,
you've announced the game's 

583
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,840
going to be there, there's a 
little bit of buzz about it. 

584
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,880
Oh, we've already got 10 copies.
And then, Oh yeah, we turn up. 

585
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,560
Oh, unfortunately there was a 
shipping disaster and we've got 

586
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,040
100 copies for the entire 
weekend. 

587
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,840
Boom, it's gone, it feels. 
Like that Feb was last year. 

588
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:46,280
Hot. 
Hot as. 

589
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:47,760
Yeah, because people are running
for. 

590
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,560
It but only 25 copies a day yeah
but don't go all in if you're 

591
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,480
not going to have enough for 
everyone it just. 

592
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,720
But it's created demands, you 
know, I absolutely. 

593
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,000
I actually, I mean, to be fair, 
they that was a a prototype run.

594
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,480
You know, I actually, Chris did 
make that perfectly clear to 

595
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,520
everyone. 
I was like, this is a prototype.

596
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,720
But you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You really want it? 

597
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,200
Here it is. 
Run for it and try and get the. 

598
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,120
First one at 25 copies and. 
Is it worth it in the end? 

599
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,960
Afterwards as well, fight for 
that crowd just to get it. 

600
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,760
Yeah, and, and, and there's been
times in the past where, you 

601
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,360
know, every publisher will deny 
that they do this because it is 

602
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,880
a, let's be honest, shady 
business practise to do 

603
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,600
something like that. 
It's not just for gang companies

604
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,040
that do it. 
I know that there's, you know, 

605
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,640
I, I, I mean, in fact, when DVDs
were a thing, I remember DVDs Oh

606
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:44,800
yeah, we've got 5. 
But then two weeks later, once 

607
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,240
the word was, I was like, I 
can't get this DVD anywhere. 

608
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,560
And then suddenly everywhere had
2000 copies of it. 

609
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,760
Thank you. 
You know, like how many times 

610
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,200
did we do like you mentioned GTA
6 already, the previous 

611
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,200
iterations of GTA where you're 
like queuing up at midnight and 

612
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:06,040
you've got to you've got to go 
through the rig of a roll of 

613
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,719
like pre ordering it. 
Or you could just you know, 

614
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,679
bring in copies because there's 
a whole bunch of people who are 

615
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:13,639
going to be standing outside 
waiting for it. 

616
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:17,520
Yeah yeah and it's not like you 
got going to need those copies 

617
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,920
throughout the week. 
So just order them the. 

618
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,960
Old midnight. 
Midnight launches, Yeah. 

619
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:27,040
So some of the facts that I 
wanted to talk about because 

620
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,840
obviously we've we've talked 
about 2017, we've talked about 

621
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:36,960
2025 and where we're at now. 
Now, I personally first started 

622
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:42,600
seeing this issue of market 
saturation in 2023. 

623
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:48,560
And I remember saying at the 
time that it was very, very 

624
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,880
saturated, but it was 
understandable because we had 

625
00:34:53,040 --> 00:35:00,560
5200 titles hitting the shelves 
in 2023 and 310 of those got 

626
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,400
the, you know, good rating. 
So it was still quite a good 

627
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,840
percentage, still not as good. 
It was probably about 6% as 

628
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:13,600
opposed to 2017's 11%. 
But 2023 you sort of looked at 

629
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,880
it is it was OK because that was
post pandemic. 

630
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,120
So that was when all the games 
that were designed during the 

631
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:25,640
pandemic were coming to market. 
And there was still an utter 

632
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:30,520
desire for new games because we 
went through a couple of years 

633
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,760
of not a great deal. 
And yet that couple of years 

634
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,880
also saw a gigantic growth in 
the amount of board gamers. 

635
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:45,000
SO2023I sort of was like, all 
right, this is a lot of games, 

636
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:50,360
but I kind of understand it. 
And then we move on to 2024, 

637
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:57,440
where the amount of games went 
up to 5800 games. 

638
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:07,440
But we had a 20 game drop in the
good category of games. 

639
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,680
But this year was also the year 
that the board game industry 

640
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:21,120
advertised its record-breaking 
£18 billion, you know, net 

641
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,800
value. 
Essentially the money side of it

642
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:33,680
says it works, but the stats of 
good games says it doesn't. 

643
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,400
How do we feel about those 
money? 

644
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,480
Money, money, money, money, 
money. 

645
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,360
The board game industry has that
advantage of you're always going

646
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:50,200
to get those side purchases 
where it's, oh, I've got a 

647
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,080
family member or a friend, 
they've got a birthday. 

648
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,640
They like board gaming, so I'll 
buy this random game. 

649
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,360
So I think she's always going to
get passive sales through that 

650
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,280
kind of stuff. 
And that's going to happen 

651
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,000
throughout the year. 
Basically people who who just, 

652
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,440
you know, not into the hobby at 
all where there's like, oh, I've

653
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:15,600
got a Christmas or a birthday or
whatever event and I need to get

654
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,440
a gift for someone who's who I 
know is into this kind of stuff.

655
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,760
So I'll buy them again. 
So, so you're always going to 

656
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:28,000
get that kind of passive income.
Like Anne said, the BGG, you 

657
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,040
kind of have to use it because 
it is the best tool for working 

658
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,280
out averages while accepting the
fact that it is extremely 

659
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,960
biassed because it is mostly 
curated by hardcore gamers. 

660
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:45,640
So like, I mean, how how many 
plays did we get out of a game 

661
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,200
like 7, which is a very basic 
card game. 

662
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,880
I don't know what it's rating on
BGG is. 

663
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,720
Off the top mail I wouldn't. 
It's not stupidly high. 

664
00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:59,720
Yeah, exactly. 
But we all really enjoyed it. 

665
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:03,120
It's a great little game. 
So you've got to take that into 

666
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,440
account. 
That's like it is slightly 

667
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:11,080
biassed and the big, the big hit
is always going to over shadow 

668
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:16,640
those smaller little games. 
So yeah, I can see that they've 

669
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,480
there's going to be a disparity 
between the two. 

670
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,800
Any thoughts on that 
particularly? 

671
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:30,840
No, I'm just mimic what James 
said and you know, I, I'm just 

672
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,440
very where I'm into, you know, 
very critique here about when I 

673
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,160
watch my movies and stuff. 
So I want people to be the same 

674
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,280
with the games. 
Don't not check other games out 

675
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,160
because BGG tells you not to. 
Always, always example. 

676
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:46,080
It's sort of like. 
Always give it a go. 

677
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,240
Give one thing a try, always, 
once. 

678
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,080
You might find something. 
The film critic is a great in 

679
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,160
comparison to this, as well as 
things like BGG. 

680
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:00,640
It's like they're only meant to 
be guides and it's sort of like 

681
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:06,800
you might follow creators who 
like the same kind of games that

682
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,320
you do for a better thing. 
But it's always, as we say here,

683
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,640
it's always just an advisory. 
It's like the number one 

684
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,240
recommendation is always going 
to be go out and play it 

685
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:19,480
yourself to see what it's like. 
These are my thoughts on the 

686
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,320
game, yours might be different. 
Don't be afraid to go out and 

687
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,560
try it. 
Just because someone you saw 

688
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,920
went well, it's not that good. 
Yeah, exactly. 

689
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:37,920
So wrapping up this section of 
the podcasts overall, and what 

690
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,760
is your personal opinion to 
games being released nowadays? 

691
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,440
Are they just as good as the 
games that ever were, or do you 

692
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:51,240
think that there has been a dip 
in quality over the years? 

693
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,080
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to go 
with what I said earlier about 

694
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,520
the bangers have been out and 
used the Marvel movies as a 

695
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,280
metaphor for it. 
I find it very hard to find a 

696
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,000
banger every year. 
I mean, we always find one 

697
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,840
eventually because the Civil War
goes in our top five. 

698
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,960
But I'm I think I'm finding it 
harder as years go by. 

699
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:15,720
But I wouldn't say the quality 
is going. 

700
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,080
I mean, there's a lot of 
quantity going to be wrong, but.

701
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,800
Yes, there is a lack of quality,
but there's always that one 

702
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,920
eventually where the quality is 
like that's it. 

703
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,800
It's going in my top five for a 
reason. 

704
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,680
But like I was saying, I was 
saying just now, it's harder to 

705
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,000
do that nowadays because there 
are so many more games that your

706
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,600
mates telling you to do and 
content creators are telling you

707
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,120
to do and BGD is telling you to 
do. 

708
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,880
If you find the time with the 
money to do it and you can, 

709
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,240
yeah. 
James as the owner of 1 solitary

710
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:45,320
game which came out in 20. 
Whatever else. 

711
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,200
Probably a 2017 game actually, 
didn't it? 

712
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,000
What? 
Don't you remember the original?

713
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:56,160
Message 19/20/19. 
Yeah, something about then what?

714
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:57,840
What? 
What's your overall thoughts? 

715
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,920
So yeah, my. 
Overall thoughts because you 

716
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:03,600
know, it was what created this 
episode, wasn't it was like when

717
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,480
we were trying to, well, when I 
was trying to build the list for

718
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:12,400
the top games of top five 2025, 
I was flicking through that app 

719
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:18,160
and going so for all the plays 
and that's a lot of 23 and 20 

720
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,040
fours here and not only the 
year, that's a good game, that's

721
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,400
a good game. 
That's a good. 

722
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,240
There were a lot of good games 
that kept, you know, in one's 

723
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:31,400
humble opinion that came out 
over those two years. 

724
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:37,480
And I'm struggling, I'm 
struggling to build a top five 

725
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,960
list because of all the games 
we've played, they've mostly 

726
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,040
seemed to have released around 
2324. 

727
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,080
Yeah, I'd say my top ten of all 
time games. 

728
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,040
I don't think there's anything 
very remotely close to. 

729
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,440
Probably 2023 is the the closest
year. 

730
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,240
Yeah, and genuinely, when, when 
I think back to the past couple 

731
00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:00,040
of years, as you said, we always
do the top five games of the 

732
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,640
year. 
And every year I, I, you know, I

733
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,880
find the list hard to build 
because it's like, yeah, I've 

734
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,800
played loads of games. 
I've, I've got to narrow this 

735
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,920
down and blah, blah, blah. 
This past year I did genuinely 

736
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,880
find it quite difficult because 
it was like these games were 

737
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,200
good. 
Are they really worthy of the 

738
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,200
top five? 
Well, that's like because we 

739
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,960
don't get the game that much. 
We're also very picky with, 

740
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,680
well, I don't anyway, very picky
with the games that we play. 

741
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,240
And it's just sort of like, it 
wasn't the fact that 2525 had no

742
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:35,800
real good offerings. 
It's like, which ones have I 

743
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,080
played? 
Because it's like there's not a 

744
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,600
lot of 2020 fives on here. 
Yeah, yeah. 

745
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,640
See, I, I obviously get to play 
quite a substantial amount more 

746
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:49,080
than you, but even then I'm 
like, these games are all good. 

747
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:54,720
I enjoyed my time. 
It's it's it's that moniker of 

748
00:42:54,720 --> 00:43:00,480
putting it into a top five. 
So am I, is it really worthy? 

749
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,080
You know, am I really willing to
say that this game is worthy? 

750
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,400
Back to that word again of the, 
you know, 5 best games of the 

751
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,320
year. 
Some games I found it very easy.

752
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,680
Hot Streak was an absolute. 
Must for me, you're not 

753
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,800
actually. 
You've got to kind of, I think 

754
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,880
almost lower your expectations 
on that. 

755
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,800
Like besides, as you've said, 
6000 releases in 2025, you can't

756
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,160
truly build a top five game of 
the year. 

757
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:30,040
Unless. 
You have played all 6000 years. 

758
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,360
Top five games that you've 
played that were released in 

759
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,760
2025. 
Yeah, and like you said, mate, 

760
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,440
you, you you've just summed up 
my whole point of it is like me 

761
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:48,800
personally, I do feel I've been 
spoiled because I came back into

762
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:54,480
this hobby in the quote golden 
era of board games. 

763
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,080
So I got, you know, my time 
coming back into this hobby was 

764
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:03,520
I was playing the best games 
that were available and to this 

765
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,120
day are still deemed as the 
best. 

766
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,480
So yeah, I'm spoiled. 
I do think the market is 

767
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,440
saturated. 
I do think publishers are 

768
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:19,520
favouring quantity over quality.
I wish they would reverse that 

769
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,680
so and go back to a case of 
quality over quantity. 

770
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,840
But I don't see it happening. 
I don't think they can. 

771
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:32,200
I think the business has evolved
that much in this direction. 

772
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,520
The The business has matched the
customer's expectation and 

773
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,040
that's what the customer expects
at the end of the day, high 

774
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,040
turnover. 
It's your fault, your fault. 

775
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,960
Get your attention ban. 
So I mean attention span soil. 

776
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,360
I can say that because we've 
been recording for X amount of 

777
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,360
time, they've all clicked off by
now because your attention is 

778
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,800
terrible. 
It'll have to be on the short. 

779
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,640
So then you get to see it. 
But yeah, your attention spans 

780
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:04,320
are terrible. 
Yeah, yeah, branding at the 

781
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,440
viewership, I'm pretty sure 
that's that'll. 

782
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:08,800
Work. 
That'll work. 

783
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,600
But yeah, you guys haven't got 
anything else you want to say 

784
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,760
about this. 
I think we, I think we're gassed

785
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,400
on long enough. 
Yeah, yeah, let's let's bring 

786
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:20,560
the move back up a little bit 
and talk about some games that 

787
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:30,920
we've been playing, shall we? 
OK, guys, let's talk about some 

788
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,480
games that we have been playing 
recently, James. 

789
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,760
We, the three of us, we got 
ants. 

790
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,960
Crocodile board out again. 
We did we. 

791
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,320
Did went to crocodile and 
barium. 

792
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,680
Oh, so long. 
It's been so long. 

793
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:48,920
I've. 
Been telling because I was dead 

794
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,760
last. 
Yeah, who won? 

795
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,200
Oh, you did. 
Yeah, I wonder who. 

796
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:56,960
Crocodile Champion? 
Think I've got that. 

797
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:57,480
What? 
About what? 

798
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,480
About somewhere. 
But yeah, before, before we talk

799
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:05,120
about Crocodile James, I just 
have to put in here because I 

800
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:06,720
haven't stopped smiling about it
since. 

801
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,400
Go on. 
We have to congratulate our 

802
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:18,680
Maple Minded alumni on his new 
job called Our Old News Man has 

803
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,840
got a job with Maplewood making 
crocodile tables. 

804
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:26,760
So I've already put my order in 
for Maple Minded Blue with our 

805
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,640
logo in the middle. 
Sort it out. 

806
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,600
That'd be so good. 
But yeah, I, I, I'm so happy for

807
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:33,560
him. 
He's Yeah, absolutely. 

808
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,560
He's he's very. 
Very very deserving of it and 

809
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,080
wish him all the best. 
Definitely. 

810
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:44,160
I'm told that he might be on the
stand at UKG, so if he is, come 

811
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,320
give him some love. 
But yeah, congratulations Paul. 

812
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:47,840
Right James, talk us about 
Crocodile. 

813
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,320
What the hell is Crocodile if 
you don't know? 

814
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,760
Circular board, little wooden 
pucks. 

815
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,600
Flip it to your mate's face. 
Yeah, that's usually. 

816
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,160
I'll do movie quotes. 
Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your 

817
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:03,400
concentration? 
It's. 

818
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,640
Usually how it decentral parts, 
yeah, try and hit the target in 

819
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,680
the middle or as close to it's. 
It's like little wooden curling.

820
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,520
Yes, yeah, you don't get the 
little without the change. 

821
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,400
I get a little little brush. 
You did get paddle with it so. 

822
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,680
Oh yeah, crocodile. 
We're, we're a massive fan. 

823
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,520
We talk crocodile at the time on
this challenge. 

824
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,800
We love it. 
If you don't know what crocodile

825
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,800
is, genuinely find someone who's
got a crocodile ball and play it

826
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,520
because he's so much fun. 
I'd say bring the ball to UKGE, 

827
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,640
but we'd probably get kicked out
of the game all the way. 

828
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,360
We Yeah. 
Yeah, I ain't carrying that 

829
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,360
around all day. 
No, no, well, nipple wouldn't be

830
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,720
there, so there's. 
A game. 

831
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,960
Have my table Have my table 
ready by UKGE Paul. 

832
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:48,160
I might end up buying one this 
year. 

833
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,360
I've been saying I want. 
One do. 

834
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,800
It mount it on the wall. 
Still, TMNT reported right? 

835
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,160
No, no. 
Well, maybe you mean you'll see.

836
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,280
But yeah, is there anything else
you want to say about it other 

837
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,760
than it's? 
It's just been far too long 

838
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,080
since we played it. 
Yes, going to go back to it it. 

839
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,160
Was good to go back to it and 
have you got a particular game 

840
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,960
you want to talk about? 
Yeah, we played silos. 

841
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:15,600
We did. 
We did. 

842
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,320
No, I think we can. 
It's the first time for everyone

843
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:18,640
because it's the first time we 
playing it as well. 

844
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,000
I think we can also say that we 
played Orbit. 

845
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,840
We did, yeah. 
So we played two of the trilogy,

846
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,520
which had James's trilogy games 
going all all crazy. 

847
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:30,920
All crazy because we hadn't 
played the third one. 

848
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,520
No, don't. 
Own the third one yet? 

849
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,440
So no. 
But silos? 

850
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,720
Let's talk about silos. 
Yeah, Silos is one of those 

851
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,480
little games where you are 
fighting for influence on 

852
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:45,080
certain places on the board, 
abducting either cows or humans 

853
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,600
to gain medals. 
First one to five medals wins, 

854
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,080
but I I quite enjoyed it. 
I liked how the different 

855
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,800
locations did certain things to 
screw other players over or help

856
00:48:55,120 --> 00:49:00,440
gain you certain ways to gain 
influence on specific posts. 

857
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,560
I like the little university 
degree thing that makes your guy

858
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:10,680
create more influence. 
Influence to to basically every 

859
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,600
token, every Maple on there's 
only one influence. 

860
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,760
If you make them get a degree in
university, there are two 

861
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,880
influence. 
There's so much greatness to it.

862
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,440
The artwork is fantastic. 
I I really personally enjoyed 

863
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:22,960
it. 
I didn't think it was as good as

864
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:24,600
I thought it would be. 
I'd really like to play again to

865
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:25,880
be honest. 
Had a lot of fun with it. 

866
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,120
Yeah, I, I really enjoyed that 
one. 

867
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,280
Yeah. 
I, I, I can't remember who won 

868
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:33,400
it. 
You did that was it. 

869
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,400
I'm just going to say that that 
that no, I was on a roll. 

870
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:41,080
I have to say that I mean, I 
completely screwed James over in

871
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:41,360
that. 
Game. 

872
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,760
Oh, you did. 
Because I did one move and then 

873
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,680
I there was a part where he was 
like, well, that's me for the 

874
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:47,640
rest of the game. 
So I was just like, I felt 

875
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,520
really bad. 
I was kind of like, I need to 

876
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,480
come second because Jason's 
going to win this so. 

877
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,840
I I just like the fact that 
very, very fitting with the 

878
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,320
theme of the game, that the cows
are worth more than the people. 

879
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:00,480
Yes. 
They're wild, don't they? 

880
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:01,000
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

881
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:02,480
Aliens prefer cows. 
Oh. 

882
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,560
No, it's just the fact that I 
love the idea of some alien like

883
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:08,240
pulling a cow out. 
Look, I've got a special human. 

884
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:09,560
It's got 4 legs. 
And. 

885
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:15,000
Others Yeah, It it's it was a 
really, really interesting game.

886
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,960
I like the way it worked. 
Very, very enjoyable. 

887
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,640
I thought it was really good. 
Part of the trilogy. 

888
00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:24,440
You know, I've, I've only played
two of the games in the trilogy.

889
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,200
What's the? 
Third one. 

890
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:27,840
Ego. 
That's it. 

891
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,840
Yeah. 
Ego Rhino. 

892
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:32,400
Kinitzia. 
Yeah, all of them. 

893
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,920
So, yeah, it's always good to 
play a game by the good Doctor 

894
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:41,120
Kinitzia, of course, as part of 
the Renaissance, which we seem 

895
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:42,480
to be going through at the 
minute. 

896
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,360
But yeah, no, I, I really did 
enjoy it. 

897
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:52,960
I didn't think I was going to. 
And that goes with Orbit as 

898
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,160
well. 
You really enjoyed this looks. 

899
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,840
It looks interesting. 
It looks like it's going to be a

900
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:02,480
good game. 
Not particularly exceptional, 

901
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,680
but blah blah blah. 
But it looks very basic compared

902
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:06,040
to silos. 
It does. 

903
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:11,080
Yet weirdly, I, I, I did prefer 
orbit over silos. 

904
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,880
However, we're talking very 
clutch. 

905
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,720
Oh, OK. 
Orbiting silos are sort of, you 

906
00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:21,720
know, OK, that that's all 
Britain. 

907
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:23,360
That's silo sort of thing. 
You know we have. 

908
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,080
To play them again then. 
But yeah, silo's really, really 

909
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,080
good, interesting game Orbit for
me. 

910
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,480
You have to like go to all the 
other planets and then go back 

911
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,160
to your planet so you're racing.
Against other, yeah, because 

912
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,480
you've got like all the tracks 
of the ships. 

913
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,520
And and you play cards to move 
the planets or move your vehicle

914
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,680
your your spaceship. 
And you add that element of luck

915
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,320
to it as well, which is quite 
rare for a Lion of Kanitsi. 

916
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,320
Again, he doesn't usually deal 
with luck. 

917
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,120
But you said it was a remake of 
an old game. 

918
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:49,560
He's. 
I believe it was. 

919
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,840
Yeah, yeah. 
But the artwork is very close 

920
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:56,280
to. 
Hates the cards of the same 

921
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,480
style as well. 
The same shape of a hating style

922
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,920
mechanic, isn't it? 
Yeah, because you you play the 

923
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,080
card and you have to move all 
the the planets on there. 

924
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,560
And then you get a a movement 
value for your individual ship. 

925
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,560
Those ships have to visit the 
different planets. 

926
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:11,480
Once you've visited every single
planet, you then have to get 

927
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,680
back to your original planet. 
That's the entire game. 

928
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:16,840
But then you've got like the odd
little bits dotted about the 

929
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,640
board, like if you go over this,
it gives you a speed boost. 

930
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,400
That's right, the warp Dr, the 
warp drive. 

931
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,160
This one gives you a a teleport.
This one. 

932
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:27,880
What was, what was the specific 
mechanic? 

933
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,920
Because I remember we basically 
said it's like. 

934
00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:36,800
It's it's he and Downforce. 
Yeah, it's. 

935
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,320
Not like they got smushed in, 
but I can't. 

936
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,360
What's the downforce mechanic 
we've said? 

937
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:43,600
The colour the the colour. 
Cards. 

938
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,040
Yeah. 
Did you play a card in downforce

939
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,640
with the colours of the cars? 
You have to move those cars in 

940
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,480
that order. 
You do the same with the 

941
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,240
planets. 
I think the main reason I enjoy 

942
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:55,760
that is it plays to my mind. 
Yes, quite a bit. 

943
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,080
Yeah. 
Because, you know, it's quite. 

944
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:58,080
Strategic as well. 
It's a. 

945
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,800
Very strategic game, I think, 
which is why I like it quite a 

946
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,160
lot. 
The problem I have with games 

947
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,200
like that is I tend not to talk 
very much. 

948
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,800
No, you don't. 
I go very, very quiet because 

949
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,240
I'm trying. 
To run around my. 

950
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:14,160
My mind is going 1000, exactly 
1000 miles an hour because I'm, 

951
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,760
you know, I'm visualising all 
these planets like. 

952
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,480
Especially when he flips up the 
card and goes out. 

953
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,720
What does this card do? 
Oh, Jason, you can move all the 

954
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:25,760
planets from that card in any 
order. 

955
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:28,480
So that was a really, really 
good game. 

956
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:29,840
Silo was a really, really good 
game. 

957
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:35,480
I will shove in an extra 1 I 
think because I want to talk 

958
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:39,720
about it because we introduced 
James to Moon colony blood we. 

959
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,280
Did 20 games. 
So it was both on both of our 

960
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,280
top fives of the year, it was 
James. 

961
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,200
What did you think? 
Oh, I loved it. 

962
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:49,840
Moon Colony loved it. 
And what was it? 

963
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,000
I made the fatal mistake after 
that first. 

964
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,680
Then I was like, oh, this seems 
a bit tame. 

965
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,120
I thought you said it was. 
When we just looked, me and 

966
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:58,560
James salute each other. 
We're just too worried. 

967
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,320
Yeah, just wait. 
Just wait. 

968
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:02,280
Yeah, by round two, he said it 
again. 

969
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,120
It's like, no, it's not too bad.
It's not too bad. 

970
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,960
By round three, my colony was 
like on fire. 

971
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,560
On fire, yeah. 
Big huge hunger that robots. 

972
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,640
If the if this if the this is 
fine meme was a game. 

973
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,840
Jason added vending machines, so
we go broke halfway through the 

974
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,480
game. 
I mean, that wasn't quite tame 

975
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:24,880
on the first couple of. 
Compared to what you've done 

976
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,080
before, yes. 
Usually I like the carnage, but 

977
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,400
you know, this time I was like, 
no, I'll pace it, I'll pace it, 

978
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,160
I'll pace it. 
You know from what? 

979
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,480
I put that in, put that in, put 
that in, put that in, Perk, 

980
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,360
perk. 
But then would you think, would 

981
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,440
it, would it have gone into the 
top 10? 

982
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:41,400
I think so. 
Yeah, yeah. 

983
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,520
I'm not sure it would have 
bounced any of my picks out, but

984
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,120
it would have been a close 
contender. 

985
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,880
Nice. 
OK, more plays, I think. 

986
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,360
More plays. 
Yeah, really love being called 

987
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,800
me Bloodbath. 
That wasn't expansion coming. 

988
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,120
I know it. 
Wasn't expansion coming? 

989
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,240
And and Courtesans is getting 
one. 

990
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,440
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of 
good expansions coming this 

991
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:04,960
year. 
We've got the Hard Rock 

992
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:07,040
expansion. 
We've got the Moon Colony Blood 

993
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:08,640
Bar. 
Call it Courtesans. 

994
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:10,920
Calling it now. 
Year of expansions. 

995
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,760
Year of expansions. 
You've I said this. 

996
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,280
My prediction of the year was 
Year of Reprints. 

997
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,960
Year of 2. 
Players safe games basically. 

998
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:24,320
Safe games that they know they 
can sell and expansions for 

999
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,640
games that are Evergreen, 
basically. 

1000
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:29,440
Yeah, I think we'll see very 
little. 

1001
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,960
Well, we'll see very little. 
We've just talked about 6000 

1002
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,640
plus games. 
Past couple of years seems the 

1003
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,800
amount it goes going up by about
two to 300 each year. 

1004
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,120
So if if it if it was 6000 last.
Year it gone, it gone up by I 

1005
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:48,760
think you. 
Said 58. 

1006
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,720
For the year it was 5/8 and it 
went up 63, so it went up by 5. 

1007
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,000
500, so yeah, so it's about the 
same job. 

1008
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,760
So you'd be looking at see what 
I mean. 

1009
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,640
It might be close to seven if 
the trend continues. 

1010
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,080
You'd be about 6-8, yeah. 
We'll see, we'll see because 

1011
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,640
right end of the year is 
interesting because obviously 

1012
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,320
they've now got to deal with the
tariff situation and all of that

1013
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:13,320
jazz. 
So and this might be the year we

1014
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:14,120
bring it back down. 
I was. 

1015
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:15,320
Going to say end of the year, 
right? 

1016
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,680
I'm going to be expecting you to
pull starts out again and go 

1017
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:20,000
right. 
Maybe. 

1018
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,240
Maybe. 
Find out next year. 

1019
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,600
I think we can head off. 
I should probably going to put 

1020
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,120
my son to bed considering it's 
quite late. 

1021
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,920
James could do we go to bed. 
He keeps yawning, as do I to be 

1022
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:34,840
honest, but you know, it is what
it is. 

1023
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:37,920
Thank you very much for coming 
over gentlemen, it's been good 

1024
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,720
to see you again. 
We need another game. 

1025
00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:44,640
Not soon we do. 
But yes, thank you guys for 

1026
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:48,560
joining us and would you like to
do your usual thing? 

1027
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,600
My usual thing. 
So what do you think guys? 

1028
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:52,880
Do you think we have an over 
abundance of games? 

1029
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,160
All 6000 of them? 
How many of those did you play 

1030
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,880
at all on Kickstarter? 
Do you go for the funded thing 

1031
00:56:57,880 --> 00:56:59,680
first? 
Or you like me, do you find out 

1032
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:01,160
there's a playmat that comes 
with it? 

1033
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,280
That's usually my first go to. 
But anyway, like what you listen

1034
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:06,120
to? 
Please like, comment, share and 

1035
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:11,760
above all else, please subscribe
and make James somehow buy Part 

1036
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,960
2 of the Nemesis Trilogy. 
No, I haven't. 

1037
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:18,240
Yes, of all the games trilogy. 
James Exactly. 

1038
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:20,520
Very well said, Sir, very well 
said. 

1039
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,000
Anything else you want to add 
today, James? 

1040
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,640
No, anything else you want to 
add, Anne? 

1041
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:24,800
That's it. 
Excellent. 

1042
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,360
I don't have anything. 
Thank you very much for 

1043
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:27,800
watching. 
My name has been Jason. 

1044
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,880
I've been James, I've been at 
and you have been watching all 

1045
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,120
listening to the Me from Mining 
podcast joins next time for more

1046
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:33,520
top top game, Good news talker 
and goodbye. 

1047
00:58:04,730 --> 00:58:06,090
Black line? 
I don't see a black. 

1048
00:58:06,130 --> 00:58:06,930
Line. 
There's a black line. 

1049
00:58:06,930 --> 00:58:12,330
It's like a wire. 
What the? 

1050
00:58:12,330 --> 00:58:17,560
Guys. 
Do not be doing that to me for. 

1051
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,640
A second I was like a wolf 
fucking black line. 

1052
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,920
I guess the outtakes this month,
this week are going to be, it's 

1053
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:30,560
going to be not very friendly.