I remember one time in Guatemala, I fall in my lines
and then I just hardly opened my rescue and I was on the ground.
Then we had to spend the whole night, I think 2428 hours till
the chopper come. We have to spend there on the
mountain stream. And it was crazy.
It was for him, super painful sometimes, but in the end it was
a story I will never forget. There was a bear 20 meters next
to me. There was one bear and the bear
also realized me and he turned around and then he then there
was a tree lying and then he stand on the tree like this was
looking me like then I was looking him.
I'm like, oh. I want to talk a little bit
about your inspirations, Philippe.
Have you had mentors in the sport?
Have you like how has your teachings been or what are the
pilots that you have looked up to and how has that journey been
for you? Yeah, actually I had some very
good mentors. He was flying on all these
competitions, so he was on the top in the earlier days.
Philippe Zeliger, thank you so much for joining Fanatic
Landing. Atlas man, so good to see you
one more time this year. How is life treating you these
days? Yeah, it's good.
These days I'm back home in Austria, just come back in one
month ago from India, so everything is good.
Yeah. Have you, have you had a lot of
airtime these days? I I remember when I met you
there, it was just like a lot of mixed flying days with a lot of
thunderstorms and everything happening.
So how has the season been for you this time around?
Yeah, this year was not that good.
Then last year, last year I think was more fly flyable days
in India. But it's OK, there is also other
things to do what they like, like I can fly.
So if not the whole day you do some, I can fly.
So the flight to the Hot Springs relaxed.
But there is many good things to do.
I think just for the perspective of our audiences, how long have
you been going to India, man? Because it seems like India
better than Indians. So it's like, what's with you
and India, man? Like how did this come into you
and how long has the has the romance been going so strong?
I'm pretty much sure it's more than 10 years now, maybe even 11
or 12 years. All right, yeah.
And how did this strike your mind?
What curiosity started pushing you to India that it it was like
1012 years of pushing? When I was flying Dandam for the
company, then a friend of mine, he told me, oh, let's go to
India, it's very nice place for flying gross country.
But then they'll say, oh, but they're the accurate and they
say, oh, you're bringing accurate.
Then it's also OK. That's how it starts.
And then they come first time in India and straight fall in love
with the place. I don't blame you, man.
It's, it's quite a mystical place to be in.
And of course, the endless possibilities of the mighty
Himalayas offer. You are no stranger to that
because you explored them in and out.
So yeah, the topic of bringing you on board this show today is
to navigate the topic of risk versus reward.
And of course, you have navigated the risk versus reward
spectrum in a very successful manner so far in in the big
mountains in the Himalayas. Like before we actually delve
into this or dive into the whole scenario, if you can just tell
us a little bit about like how many hours do you have under
your belt? And then Acrobat, just a small,
a little introduction about you and your parrot lighting.
Of course the Indians know about you, but I think the world needs
to know as well. So just for the audience's
purpose. Yeah, actually in the beginning
I start with acroparrot lighting and I actually make a very fast
progress. I think I flew one year and then
it make Helico after two years I flew Infinity.
This was those years was one of the difficulties maneuver.
And yeah, then after a while I start to go to India for gross
country. And I think this is makes me,
yeah, feeling safe under gross country gliders because you know
what the glider is doing. Got it.
So when when you say that you made a decently fast progress
and you've went at it from the beginning, what kind of mindset
did you set out with? How did you start your art of
life journey basically? Yeah, actually I just spent all
my time. What I have, I spent on flying
when I went every day up, even if it was after working and I
see I can catch the last cable car.
I went up for the last run and then I just hit one run.
But I tried to go every day and even I had actually a good job.
I was working for men, for everywhere, for everything.
And my boss was very nice actually.
And he asked me, hey Philip, you have time next week you have
this and this work. I say I looked on the weather.
I say, Oh no, I have no time. And then I say OK, I call you on
the weekends. So like this I got lots of free
time for flying. So this was very good.
Do you want to share your fascination for flying?
Like basically what kind of gets you excited about it?
Because all of us have that very intimate feeling that pulls us
towards the sky and wants, wants us to keep us there.
And I've seen the ones who have pushed it from the beginning.
I have quite an interesting story to tell.
So what was your drive that eventually got you into the
sport and eventually made you pioneers?
Yeah, actually, some friends get me in.
Before I was lots of motorbiking.
And then I stopped because I got a little bit too mad.
So I say, OK, I have to do something else.
And then he told me, oh, my uncle have a flying school.
I say, oh, OK, nice. And then maybe two weeks later,
I start the course. But yeah, I think if you spend a
lot of time and here's what you'll like, and the good thing
is if you're up in there, you forget all the other things
around you. This is some kind of meditation,
and I think this is very nice because you don't think about
what's happened tomorrow. You're just in your.
Let's say we're just in your element.
You know, when you like this, you're just there and when you
enjoy. And.
Yeah. No, I, I think I, I resonate
with that curiosity of yours because flow state as, as a lot
of people explain, or the basically the pure joy of doing
something that kind of engulfs your brain and everything in it
to, to make it happen is, is very rewarding in itself.
And I was reading some articles about you online and it said
you're into slacklining and now, as you said, motorcycling and
stuff like that. So I believe you have been
chasing these kind of feelings for quite a while, even before
the aerial sports came into your life.
Is it? Yeah, it's also nice Snow
Adrenaline. It's more or less.
It's a good track, you know. 100% man, 100% agreed.
But talking about risk versus reward and serving the spectrum
of risk versus reward to yourself, as you have changed
disciplines and as you have grown in your mind and in your
body, have you ever felt the need or have you ever felt the
want to change your perspective to risk versus reward?
Be it slacklining, be it motorcycling, be it para lining,
or are you still in the same zone?
Like how has that side of the aspect been?
I feel like I'm still in the same zone.
I like to in one opinion, you, you have to take some risk if
you want get better and this what you want to do.
But it's also, let's say back for flying.
If you fly always the same Anuma, after a while it's
getting boring. So then you want always more.
It's always the same. Now with the twisted stuff, it's
also it's you try and then it's like, wow, it feels good.
It feels different. Then you get more interest
because if you do always the same, then at one point it's
getting a little bit boring. And then it's like, of course
it's not bad if you do always the same.
It's also in a good way. If you don't push too much, This
is always the borderline, how much you push.
You should also not push too much and be stupid.
Yeah. Indeed, I, I think like my, my
perspective if you start thinking from the new beginners
point of view, because I remember when I was starting to
learn paralleling, I, I started doing forward launches and I
started doing reverse launches and somehow forward launches
were just very risky or they seemed very risky to me.
I was like in reverse, I just feel very good.
And somehow my brain was telling me to stick to my comfort zone
and not do forward launches anymore and try and stick to
reverse ones. And I see a lot of pilots in in
our sport sticking to reverse launches and not pushing the
risky spectrum of perfecting a forward launch or navigating
towards it. So do you want to touch up on
the topic? The how eventually do you find
that a person is ready to go ahead and try something new,
even though it is outside your comfort zone, Even though it
might seem a bit tough, but it is still a necessity because
once you know how to do a forward launch, it is anyway
super helpful and makes you a safer pilot.
And I think this can be mapped in doing full stalls or in doing
big wing overs or getting into acro and all of that.
Because every time you will have something which keeps you safe,
which keeps you happy. And the other one is it seems a
little bit risky, which seems a little bit dangerous, but
eventually is safer in the longer run if you do actually
make to accomplish it. The other thing is they don't
push too much in the beginning because if you're, I have many
friends, they pushed a lot and they are very good with mixed
driving or something like this. So they're a little bit hard
guys and then they push too much and then the other one fresh in
the spiral or something like this.
So it's like you should not push too much, especially in the
beginning. You need a lot of flights.
This is the most safest thing what you can do.
You go up with the app or you make flights.
So in the beginning you don't think too much about pushing
just to feel comfortable. And if you feel comfortable and
you get the feeling, OK, I can try a little bit more.
OK, go a little step. It's better to do not like you
do a full step. You do half step and it's even
more safe than you do the full step I would say.
Got it. So let's say define these half
or full steps from let's say my dilemma was that is it right
time to push to A2 liner or to upgrade to A2 liner from a three
liner. And even there are times when
you're going on full speed bar through thermals, you're flown
in India, you know how the thermals are and there are times
when 3 liners can scare you a lot in thermals.
But at the same time, every other duration, the whole
duration of the flight, which is not being flown in thermal,
you're very comfortable on your wing and you feel like yes,
you're totally ready to upgrade to A2 liner, but then you
upgrade to A2 liner. God forbid something happens and
you feel like you're not ready for it.
So now you're getting your confidence along with the too
soon and too late thing because you do have to push, but at the
same time, you don't have to push as well.
This is a massive Gray area that I hear a lot of pilots talk
about, but I don't hear a lot of answers regarding a clear cut
answers regarding this. Do you have any suggestions on
how did you navigate this when you were growing up in your
career and how did you eventually try to upgrade and do
things that were outside your comfort zone?
Yeah, the thing was I start with I remember when we make a lot of
collapse in the beginning and we was a small group and we just
flew outside and we make so many of collapse as possible all the
time. And yeah, for sure it was many
flats like this one. And after we start going on a
lake, then we make our first food stall.
Actually I make a spiral, I make a front collar up.
And then my friend was like, oh, feel a mix full stall I have to
make also. And then the next round I was
like, oh fuck my friend make full stall.
OK. And so you push your with your
friends a little bit more. Can you go in a safe place if my
official rescue land in the water?
And yeah, this is always good to push like this.
And this is also a point I see many times people, they fly if
you see glider or a big glider, they should not go too fast on
these gliders because there is not really a reason.
Last year in India I flew 2 weeks to see and it's also sea
glider. So you don't need to really to
upgrade too fast because actually you can do everything
with a peak level that you can if you want.
At the beginning, of course, no, If you fly a long time, you fly
a lot. And then of course you can go
for a sealer peak level. So let's say if we have to make
this line of upgradation, because let's say upgrading to a
newer classification or a higher classification wing is one of
the main reasons why your skills do not match with the
expectations that eventually with the reality that eventually
happens of how the wing behaves. So let's say to be on a, to be
on a safer level, do you should pilots start putting some number
of hours as the benchmark or some number of stalls as the
benchmark said, hey, until I do 100 hours, I don't think I
should be upgrading. Or until I do so many stalls, I
will not upgrade as a minimum set because obviously no
manufacturer or no reseller or or retail shop out there will
try to say that I will only sell this to a pilot with certain
number of hours. But on a personal note, do you
think it's a good habit to try and have some kind of
benchmarking which you can actually measure rather than
just the feeling? Because feelings can change with
the day and confidence living and all of those things.
Yeah, I would actually say before you upgrade to a glider,
you should stall. You should feel confident in the
stall with your. It's maybe a little bit higher.
Many people who sure don't know how to do the stall with the
glider what they're flying. But in my opinion, it's like I
start with stalled with mentor and I stalled it so many times
to feel comfortable and then I moved to another glider.
And then even even if I try one new glider, the first thing what
they do, I fly out and I make a stall and look how it's behave
how I feel like under the glider when I stole the glider.
This is always like when I try a new glider except my friend tell
me oh This is why. Are you glad I don't make a
stall? Yeah, sounds great.
But I think while while we're talking about stalls and pushing
the limits on all of these things, do you think you as a
pilot yourself have had some limiting factors while you were
progressing? Did you have your kind of
experience level or your goals which influenced your decisions
or anything which influenced risk taking abilities like how
did how has your progression been?
Because obviously everybody has their own battles to deal with.
So what were your challenges while you were trying to move
on? Although you do seem like you
fly, like you're an invisible person.
But as a pilot to pilot, how do you navigate all of these
challenges, if you have any? Yeah, the thing was, yeah, I had
some friends, they was very good in acro, so they teach me a lot.
So this was also what helps me a lot.
Sometimes if you have no people who can help you, then it's more
difficult to get better. It's always good if you have
some friends, or even if you have no friends, you take some
SAV or you do some other stuff. Yeah.
Have you had decisions, Have you had to take decisions in your
flying career where you had taken like calculated risk,
where you had to prioritize safety while pushing the
boundaries or anything like that?
Yeah, sometimes, of course, there is some reason, especially
when I did this Himalaya crossing.
Sometimes you get in places there is windy and maybe you
expect, but then there is windy and there is no place to land.
But yeah, there is some bad moments for sure.
Some thanks. But you always have to find an
opinion on what you can do in the worst case.
When I go flying, I'm always looking for one opinion and
there is always something possible.
If you're in the worst place, maybe then you can soar up
somewhere. Or yeah, I'm sure it's also
sometimes a little bit luck, but luck is also good.
We need also luck in our life, for sure.
I have also a lot of that, but a. 100% you know, and while
you're talking about the Himalayan crossing, I remember
about the harness rescue that you did.
Let's, let's talk a little bit about that one when you were
flying at 6500 plus or something and you picked up A harness of
another pilot and brought it back to the main landing in
Saudi. Yeah, let's let's bring that one
into the show, man, because I think that will cover up a lot
of topics. How did that flight pan out?
And if you can just talk to our audiences a little bit about it
and then we'll pick it up from there on.
Yeah, 11, friend of mine, he landed there and then he fall in
the river. Then they pick him up with the
chopper and then he was back in Manali.
And then I went to Manali to speak with him.
And luckily in Manali I got some ropes and some rescue kits.
And he told me he let all the gear there.
And I say, oh, interesting, what do you do with this stuff there?
And then he'll say, aye, aye, if you take it, you can have it.
And we're like, OK, this sounds like a deal.
So I got 100 meter rope and lots of other things for safety and I
had my good choose with me and then I hiked up on Manali like
maybe 1000 meter with round circle kilos.
Then from this point I took off and then I flew to direction
Parapengal because I was behind the glacier on on the river
direction to Parapengal and he give me the coordinates and he
told me the chopper pilot said, oh, I at least you put the
glider very well. I can see very well the red
color in the what just I remember.
So I flew above on 4000 and I looked down.
I'm like, OK, this looks like a red point.
This looks good. So I land on 4000.
Then after I hack down and on up on the air, I saw already one
place where it was flat where I can put my tent.
So I went into the to prepare everything.
And then I see also where I want to or where I was sleeping.
There was everywhere, holes around.
And for sure you see the even the pull from the bear.
So I know there is some bears around.
But yeah, like what to do? They're not used to humans so
much there because there is I think there is not much people
there. So I was like OK, if something
will happen and make some noise. So that put some sound on my
speakers because I always fly with speakers.
So I was like OK, if that is something happened, I put some
noise even I went to sleep. Then I even looked some YouTube,
some videos. I download some videos just to
remind me how how to make the knots proper again, because if
you don't use long time, sometimes you forget.
Yeah. Then I checked everything again
and then I went to sleep. Even I had some noise.
I put some music full on and then after half an hour turn it
off and I start to sleep again. Yeah, the day after I just left
my tent there. Then I hiked down and then I
found the place where it was and it was like quite steep.
It was actually very steep. So I found one tree on the top.
I put the rope on the top and then I went down to the water.
The river. Yeah, actually it was very funny
because it was like on the front and on the backside there was
full of ice and more or less like full ice and glacier.
And in the middle there was a hole where the guy fall in too.
Luckily he got stuck before the river goes again under the water
or under the ice. I was hiking on these places.
It was a little bit scary because it was everywhere
cracks. But I hiked with my safety line
and I was like OK in worst case get stuck on the rope.
Then I hiked on the other side of the river and then I see it's
not so deep. So I put all my clothes off and
then I went in naked on this place to keep my stuff dry
because if you go out of the water, of course it's super
cold. It's a glacier water, you know,
it's super freezing. So I jumped there on the rock
and then I see this harness and then I put see, OK, it looks not
bad. OK, I put it on the side of
course was full water and stuff. Then I try, I think it was
Albania. I, I tried to get this glider
out, but because it was already three or four days in the water
because of bad weather, I tried to put it a little bit and it
was like, so I say, OK, the glider I can forget because it's
super stuck in the rock. And so I put the harness out.
I tried it a little bit. I put even the rest to no, I let
everything together and I put it in my back.
And then I climb up again on this place with my rope.
And when I was in the top again, I keep going in the forest a
little bit more. And then suddenly I heard some
noise when I was hiking there. And then I look on the right
side. I'm like, oh, oh, there was a
bear 20 meters next to me. There was one bear.
And the bear also realized me and he turned around and then he
stand there was a tree line and then he stand on the tree like
this was looking me like then I was looking him.
I'm like, oh, oh, then I make some noise and then make me a
little bit bigger. And then suddenly he watched me
two, three seconds. And then he turned around and
there was very sleep. And then he started to run up
there. I really hear how he was
breathing. It was like just like, because
he was full running up and this was a scary moment.
But also, yeah, I always wanted to see a bear, so I hit up my
pocket. No way, man.
Then after I hiked back to my tent and then I opened all the
stuff and I tried the harness and I opened the reserve and
tried everything. At this point I put everything
my tent. Then I packed everything again
and I think I slipped on three fives, so it was 500 meters to
hike up again with all the stuff.
So then I packed my stuff and I looked on the other side of I
looked on the other side of the other Ridge and then I'm like
something is moving there and I'm like Philip, now you're so
on there, you're getting crazy, you know.
So I stopped again in the back and I looked again.
I'm like, for sure it's moving. There is another bear bear, but
was far away. It was not closed, but I was
like a little bit scared because I had all my stuff.
I led some stuff from 4000 meter, my glider, my harness and
I remember there were some almonds inside and was like oh
hopefully the bear the other bear is not there and looking
for my almonds so I can. Would be very shitty if they
destroy your glider and then you're stuck there.
There was also all the time sinking when I was hiking up to
my glider. Wow.
I mean, I don't know where to start.
Yeah, but keep going. Keep going.
Yeah. And then up there, when I was up
there, there was like 35 case wind, side wind because there
was the glacier and I think there was the glacier down wind
was pushing outside. So, so it was quite tricky,
especially with two harness to take off.
I had some rope. I put the other harness under my
ass. And yeah, so it took me two or
three takes off take offs because one time I got up and
the glider was shooting and then I got the collapse and I was
again on the ground. And then on the third time or
the second time I managed. But yeah, you cannot really
proper move before this harness. The other one is behind your
under you. So you're a little bit, I don't
know how to say you'll feel very like you have another 50
kilomore or something like because you cannot move really
proper. But somehow I managed.
Then it takes me in the beginning a little bit of while
to get some nice hike. But then at one point I got the
Super nice journey and then went up to 6550 I think.
And then I start to fly to Parabang to the break in
chamber. And then after I jump out, I get
another good hike and then I jump out and jump charge you bus
and come back to Peru. You know what?
Let me start with this question. Was it worth it?
Well, of course was nice adventure man.
No, I like these things to do. If I have one idea in my mind
what I want to do, I will try, you know?
You're kidding me, man. You had a beer 20 meters from
you and you knew that was possible and you were going
naked in glacier water and stuff like that.
That's like, that's brutal, man. Like what kind of adventure are
you chasing? What's your curiosity?
Tell us about it. Let us into your mind a little
bit. How do you approach these
things? What?
What makes you do them? Yeah, in the end you just have
to be safe on the landings. No, if you're good in the
landings, then everything is good.
No, you don't have to push so far.
So you can even I had put for me like for 3-4 days if if I say,
OK, I don't manage. I just make a bebop there and
then try my time. But on the other side, I'm
interesting, OK. I want to see the place where he
land and this and that. And then I'm like, I'll get like
more interesting. And then you get motivated.
I like down there. Oh yeah.
OK. Oh yeah.
Rope. OK.
Yeah. Put down the rope on ice.
Go down there with the rope. So this is a very nice thing
what you can do. Yeah.
So basically, if I have to sum
it up, it's like curiosity plus the confidence in your skills
because you've worked for it, and the sense of adventure all
basically come together when you design an adventure or when you
design to go out there and chase our lighting, if I understand it
correctly. Yeah, this is right.
I don't have to prove anything. Somebody like can do what they
want and but this was for me a good mission.
This sounds nice to pick up the harness so that it is to look
very stuffed, very land. Let's talk a little bit about
those days, man, because obviously you're flying for the
majority of the day and you're making a lot of decision making
and I believe para lighting does take a lot of energy.
You know, it does make you tired.
So sleeping at the end at the night is not a problem.
But then how do you spend your how did you spend your time when
you were actually on the ground and when you were just, it was
just you and absolute wilderness and not a human insight?
What was what? What were you doing then?
What what was your thought process and everything during
that time? While you're in China, it can be
not beautiful or not more beautiful than you alone in a
mountain somewhere. I like it very much, so I I also
like it very much with friends. But if you're alone, it's also a
special feeling and there is always something to do.
Otherwise you hike up, sit on a rock and just watch a little
bit. And yeah, I always never get
boring there. Otherwise you'll make some nice
music. You Can Dance a little bit.
You should get a GoPro to record all of this plan.
I think the world needs to know about what all you do.
Sometimes could be funny, yeah. 100% I think the the inside life
of Philip Zelenor is is going to be even better than what what
the world knows from the outside of over the Instagram or
Internet as we know. Probably people will get mad.
Interesting, interesting. Let let, let let's say when you
are are are, are you into teaching or are you mostly into
tandem or what's? How you tandem?
But I'm thinking to do some guiding also.
But yeah, I don't have to. So it's OK if some people say,
OK, they have they want really to do it with me and then they
have a certain amount of money that I will do otherwise I also
enjoy to fly by myself. This is for me also more
important because I will work there a half year and that I
don't fly much solo because of course you keep you busy, you
have to make advertisement, you have to speak with people and
sometimes speak with them that they fly with.
So even for the big days here in Australia, don't fly so much in
Australia. And on the big days, actually I
should. But yeah, you cannot do
everything either. You decide that you make you
take your holiday in the winter. You say, OK, I take my best days
off here, but then you have to look.
And maybe then I should do more guiding.
But I like this is also a good one.
I think just to be your student, like that was the curiosity when
I asked you that question. You have to be a special breed
to be able to follow your instructions or whether where
you take your guide as your clients land because you're
pushing the limit as far as it stretches, I think.
Yeah. But of course with the clients,
I would not push that much because that's why this is the
also the big thing where I like to fly by myself because then I
can push my limits. And this feel like in
competitions, most of the people, they are like pushing
not their limits. They pushing the limits because
other people push. This is actually not the really
good thing. If let's say you don't fly for a
long time and then you go to competition and then they push
because the other push, then it's getting there is more risk.
Like for me, I only push when I feel confident.
Sometimes I I feel not like pushing.
It's always like, how is your feeling?
How is your day? You're a little bit tired or
maybe sometimes you sleep not good, sometimes you sleep good.
You feel like full power, then you try.
But that's why for me it's always important when I go for
fever, something I don't look so much about weight people.
I know many people that come with sleeping mattress, sort of
with very thin sleeping bag, you sleep not very near.
I don't care. I have my sleeping mattress,
it's 1K1 KG. And also my sleeping bag is
heavy, but it's a really good one.
And this is for me more important that I don't freeze in
the night. So I sleep very well.
So then the next days you're like 1000% and then you can
start again this. But I think if you do lots of
feedback and we want to cross something, I think this is very
important to do. No, I think what you're saying
is that make sure you're well prepared for the adventure.
You don't sacrifice on that one and then you can chase the
adventure as hard as you want to without being scared while the
adventure is going on. Exactly because no, I would not
always say I'm well prepared to have very good tear with me.
But if I see other people, let's see like Francois Radovski, when
he did this crossing, he had all my waypoints.
He had some other waypoints where people were sleeping even.
He told me I shall look there is what I look, there is this and
that. I'm like, OK, yeah, I did in a
different way. Everyone can.
This is very professional how he did for me.
I was flying, I took, I take off at 10:00 or 11:00 me.
I don't care to fly 100 kilometers or 150 or even 200.
I was just like, I don't want to land down in the valley beyond
hike. I just want to keep going with
flying at 4:00. I always look for a place where
I can land and even where I can some find some water or
something. So mainly I was on the snow
line, close to the snow line. So there is always water, Yeah.
Oh, sounds exciting. And I think I would like to
touch upon the point that you said that when competition
pilots are all of those ones, they try to fly not for
themselves and they get influenced by the ones
surrounding them. I think this is a very human
thing that when you are trying to be better like competition as
let's see who's the best. So everybody out there is trying
to be the best of the rest. And when that happens, it's it's
subconsciously plays with your mind.
And this happens even in the new beginner's course.
I completely see that it happened with me, it happened
with other students that I have seen, and it happened also in
the intermediate pilot syndrome that you want to be better than
the other crowd. You seem to be navigating that
pretty successfully. The first thing is that you
don't fly with the crowd. You make your own lines and you
make your own glory. But how do you is to not letting
the others influence you, even though it is a very natural
tendency for humans to get influenced by others?
Is it difficult to say because even in the beginning I told you
when my friend make the first full stall, I went also up to
make the full stall. So I was also in this game.
But yeah, it's also not bad sometimes, but it's always you
have to think about how much you spend time in the air.
If you don't spend much time in the air, you don't push too
much. It's very difficult to say.
So I think we should let our listeners answer this question
for themselves, pretty much. Yeah, you have to find by
yourself the way how much you push, and I'm not here to tell
people you are. You're not pushing.
You should not push because everyone can do what they want
and this is everyone's own SO. I see.
Let's talk about the Nepal to India crossing, which I think
you did in record time. Was it was seven days or how
long did you take? To completely India and Nepal
was like 13 days, 1300 kilometers.
And the previous record was, how many days was that?
I don't know, I even don't didn't look before because this
to me it's just happened because of the Corona thing.
I say, OK, I will now go back to Austria as well, to Nepal.
And then there are one guy or the one friend, he text me, he
will also come to Nepal. I say, OK, if you have a house,
you can come. That is a nice room.
You can spend there also your time.
And then they actually they come up with the plan to fly to
Kathmandu or close to Kathmandu. And I say, OK, this would be a
nice mission. And even if I like it, they keep
going further. So I flew from Pokhara to
Director Kathmandu and yeah, first there was two other
friends and he was flying together because they have the
tent. One guy was not so fast.
So they stay together. And me, I keep going because I
say, OK, I don't know if they come in.
We said actually after 60 kilometres we meet there.
But then I was not sure. And I say, OK, I keep going, I
will see what's going to happen. And then I liked it so much that
I crossed from Bokora into the east side, east side in four
days. And then I was in Dharan in the
city. I was flying there one day
because it was a new spot for me.
And then the day after I went back with the bus to Bokara.
And then I think I make one or two days break.
Then I flew close to Anaborn. Now this was on my break day.
Yeah, I make, I want to make. I can fly.
And then I went to 5200 on close to Anaborn or two.
And this was also very nice, beautiful flight.
And the day after I make a rest and then I saw OK, and now I
have again 4 good days, OK, I go to the West side of Nepal and
then you have almost everyday 100 kilometers or even more.
So you're telling me they're just going with the flow and
things just happen for you? Is, is that how your flying is?
And it is that how it has been all your life?
Not all my life but then I always say it's same with work
or does something or do you get kicked out somewhere or I don't
know but are you quit with the girlfriend?
I always say one one door closed and the other one opened.
This is my way of thinking. I love it man, but you must have
done some a lot of things right to be in that position because
as you're trying like Annapurna or the handling the beer
encounter in a calm manner or planning the whole harness
rescue and smashing the records in the Himalayas with brand new
lines and all of that. So what, what, what I'm curious
is like, how did your hard work look like?
What all things like? There must have been times when
you're like, Oh my God, this is so tiring.
But I know I have to do this to get better at flying.
So can you talk to our audiences a little bit about like, how did
you reach this place in your flying career?
Like where did you put in the effort?
Yeah, actually I don't push that.
I have to do. It's always OK.
I feel good too. I fly around even sometimes, if
not the biggest flight, this means not like this is the best
flight. So if just you fly, I don't
know, half an hour and they're even much more beautiful than
the other big flights. What I have done all the time,
it's very difficult to say because you make a record.
This is the best flight. It's just a number.
And the other thing is more like just enjoy what you do and then
it will come by themselves. I feel like, but also when I
make this, when I make the beer record at this 272 flying to
Kashmir on the border towards my end of the crossing, actually, I
will say, OK, I want to go to this end of the border of
Himachal. So I started to fly there and
because of other friends he he left earlier, I said, OK, maybe
it would be nice to come back. And then I come back and then I
jump above Charles to pass. I see 240 kilometers.
What was the record? So actually I decided in the
last maybe 2-3 hours to make the record.
This was not didn't plan it. Sometimes I do, but this time I
was not planning it. And then I was like the last
three hours. OK, OK, go after 360.
OK, turn around, fly back. You see?
The smile on your face tells me they want to find your lad
chasing all these adventures. Man, that's super nice.
But I think you are the definition of keeping it fun and
then doing it because a lot of times I've had my guests say,
and I've heard a lot of senior finals say that as long as it's
fun, you should keep on doing it.
From you it it seems like you you pretty much do have a lot
of. Fun.
If you try to chase it too much, it will not come.
It will only come when you take it easy.
But for me also when I went to Colombia, I had also I should
try to break the record, but there was like was trying too
much I feel like. So then I realized also why to
fly the same route every day. I'm like OK, fuck that cheap man
or not, I'm here to enjoy. So I do what I want.
Then I make a also a very nice speed work and I also then I
realized that's why I'm here for it to do this what I like to do.
Not to chase this record. So it's just, there are just
numbers or even if you make a short flight there, you fly 100
kilometre in One Direction, it can be much, it gives you more
back. I feel like when you fly 100 to
the not 100 time, but maybe you fly 1015 times, always the same
route and try to push a little bit more there, push a little
bit more there, then you look always off your average speed.
You're not fast, so you push more and then you end up
somewhere down there because he was like, fuck, I have to keep
the speed. And yeah, so it's better you
are. Just take it easy and go with
the flow and then things can happen as you.
Let me ask you this, Philippe. Do you have your flaws?
Do you, Are there times when you're angry with yourself at
all? Why did I do this?
Or I could have done better or something.
Like, do you do you face those challenges as well in your
flying? Well, of course you can, but on
the other hand you can be also why why you can be always worse.
I could be already land there, so I'm already still in there
positive things. So life now if your focus always
more positive Yeah, it's better. No, even when I remember 1
friend of mine he was quite down because of something happened
and some bad stories. And then I told him yeah, but
good now no, even you cannot go more deeper now.
It can be only going more after he was laughing and he said
actually you're true now I love the point of view.
Man, it's and it's, it's so much easier said than done, but the
moment you're able to make peace with that, that it could have
been worse. And I'm so glad for that it was
there. That's I think that is a way to
unlocking a lot of good things in life. 100% yeah, I think so
too. This is you think too much
negative is not good, No is there always positive and you
will always find some positive things in your life and
premature. I want to talk a little bit
about your. Inspirations Philippe have you
had mentors in the sport have you like how has your teachings
been or what are the pilots that you have looked up to and how
how has that journey been for you in in your flying career?
Yeah, actually I had some very. Good mentors, they was flying on
all these competitions. So they was on the top in the
earlier days. And this was quite helping me a
lot because I remember when we were sitting together and we
there was all the old computers, you know, and there was just
YouTube, I think was almost new. And then you look videos with
them and then you're like, ah, you see this guy makes a
collapse. You see he crashed.
And because of that and because he don't react, you see, then
they explain you how to make collapse and stuff.
And then the day after they fly next to you and say, Ah, no,
it's your turn. Then he make next to you the
collapse. Ah, you can fly straight with
the collapse. And then you try and then in the
beginning, of course you're scary, but and you're OK, OK,
what he told me yesterday, I have to pull the right side and
make a little bit way. Chief told you not too much and
this and that. And then you see actually it's
true. And then it's also the good
thing if you believe on them. I see also another friend.
He was always making some mistake.
And then they told him, hey, you make this and this mistake and
he didn't get the input. So he was always like doing the
same. He didn't change what he told
him. This is also when some good
people or some acro people would fly very good and they tell you
something for sure. He see what which mistake you
make. If you say, OK, this is the
mistake, OK, I tried to do this a little bit different and I
know it's working. OK.
Thank you very much. You know, now I think sharing.
Experiences is very important in our community, definitely when,
especially when you share risky situations and learn from each
other, that goes a very long way.
And, and, and the role of mentorship in, in, in developing
sound decision making skills is, is also, I think pretty
important in, in navigating the spectrum of risk versus reward
in paragliding. What kind of makes me curious is
that how do you place a trust factor in someone that you are
taking knowledge from? Of course, first of all, it's
the willingness of sharing the knowledge of the person, right?
He can be one of the best pilots, but if he's not willing,
he or she is not willing, then of course, it's very difficult
to place your trust factor. But once you have had that, OK,
this person is willing to share, how, how did you figure out
whether the person is trustworthy or not or whether
those informations that are coming from him are valuable for
you to intake or not? Because that is another Gray
area which I see a lot of pilots in, but.
This is also difficult to find out you know, some people are
very good and some people are not so very good.
In explaining meet example, I remember my ex-girlfriend, she
was always asking me how to make this and this I'm like how it
works. I just do it.
And then you have it was also difficult to me.
I have to remember how I do because if you do things, a lot
of times you get used too and you know how to do, but you
don't think anymore. Like with the acro maneuvers you
make Misty and then how to explain Misty, OK, you have to
pull on this side, but the other side you also stabilize a little
bit, especially in the end. And so it's then you're again,
if you start this maneuver so that if you're just doing the
learning in the beginning, then you remember, then you remember
more, I would say, because then you do, you try always something
new and OK, this is because of that.
But then if you fly to this maneuver, since I don't know,
5-10 years and then you don't think about too much.
So for me, sometimes it's also difficult to explain some people
how to make this maneuver because I do it too many times
already forget to explain actually.
So it's sometimes even if it's a good pilot, this can be the same
like me, explain sometimes some things is maybe not so good but
I'll try sometimes to keep my best.
I love your honesty man. Love your honesty in this regard
and that's so nice. I think what a lot of audiences,
audience members are curious about and have been wanting to
ask you this is that why don't you compete bro?
What's stopping you from smashing excels or experience or
any of these? I can flies when you live that
for so long, if you're comfortable answering that.
Yeah, I'm actually. The thing is there is many
things competing is always saying why you do that.
It's more for what I would like to do.
The Trilix helps if I can get in and stuff like that.
But on the other hand, it's my man time where I make my money.
So it's again then you have to find some sponsor.
It's a lot of work. It's not only about physical to
get feet and to get better and flying and experience and going
the route and looking for the places.
It's also more in the background.
Lots of paperwork and yeah. And you look at the outlets
there taking full power and then then what they get.
I know what you mean, right? I know what you mean.
We don't have to go there, don't worry.
Let's stay in different way. I would like to complete.
Itself with you for sure. Very good adventure I think as
well. Could be very funny as well.
For sure. Suffering as well of course.
Look at them just running all the time.
If there is bad weather, which OK, go, no, but yeah, it's
always why just that you can say I compete the six Alps.
Yeah, it would be nice for the adventure for sure.
But then I have to find some people who taking care of my
company. Because now in the moment, my
company is quite well on my Internet seems looks very good.
And if if I give my company to somebody who messed it up, then
I was working for the last couple of years very hard.
I was working very hard the last couple of years.
For that my company is very proper and a good level.
Now I have also very good pilots in my company.
Yeah, I don't want to mess this up.
This is lots of degrees. Why I'm not competing yet?
Definitely and passion projects. Take a lot of effort to reach up
to a certain level and I can only have respect for the amount
of work that you must have put into this passion project of
yours, the T Roll air. So if any of our listeners are
are interested to fly tandems in, in Austria, in the in the
town of T Roll, I think we're going to put your website in the
show notes and they can reach out to you and get a little bit
of a glimpse of the amazing flights and all these epic
adventures that you bring in into their lives with you.
You're most welcome. Only I was even thinking to do
like in India, but just for pilots, if somebody say, ah, OK,
I want to fly somewhere in the back mountains and guiding or
like coaching. But if the tandem, because then
you have the people on the front of you and you can explain them
straight why you do that, because this of that and the
wind of that. And then the German comes up
there, you can explain much more because you feel confident
because they don't have to fly. Because if you do coaching
example, I would say then the people already in a place or
they have to take the terminal, they're already stressed.
So I think it's also a very good way to do this coaching on the
tandem. So if there is somebody
interested, you can ask me also for that in India to fly in the
back mountains with me with the tandem.
Wow, are you? Offering possible beer
encounters as well if if requested on extra charges or
beer sightings somewhere during the flight.
Because I think you know a lot about Black Mountain and where
the wildlife is now, considering how much you've been there so
many times. Yeah, if somebody will to do.
That then they are able to pay something then it will be
possible. And I am also happy to fly by
myself. I said all the before, it's like
more my holiday, but I'm really some people are really
interested in it and say, OK, why?
And then they would say or that they would see that they can
learn a lot of that because in the end, the guiding or coaching
should be just could be that they get a little bit better and
feel more confident. And I feel like you you can how
to explain this. You can be like more like a
sponge. You get more input or you can
keep it because on the radio or you talk with the other guys
flying by himself and you just try to explain it's we'll go in
on the other side of the air and go out on the other side because
already focus on being in the air and don't mess it up or
something like this. Sometimes it's bumpy conditions
then you're a full focused on this to stay in this thermal and
on the tandem and behind of them.
And then I can tell them a little bit pumpy.
But yeah, we will manage and then we will do that and then we
take the Valley win. We go a little bit longer if the
Valley win because we're a little bit faster and this and
that. And yeah, I think it's a
coaching. I know I I completely.
Agree, sharing knowledge is is the best way to spread it and I
think especially at at your caliber, one-on-one coaching
will be really beneficial for the ones who are going in for
it. So definitely for our listeners
who are interested, contact Philippe in the show notes and
we will have all the details there on how to reach him when
he's on the ground. When he's in the air, you can
only look up and try and spot him somewhere in the sky.
Continue you cannot say see on Caribbean.
That's good. That's good to have a spot.
Very agreed that everyone should fly with a spot but me.
I did all my stuff, but I did all everything about the in
rich. I don't know, I feel like it's
different. You have to more they care about
it anyway. You have to take care of it.
You're not like because I have a in rich.
I can be stupid and make stupid decisions.
It's always, yeah. But I say also, I know what is
the risk of doing that, and I'm OK with that because, yeah, I
love to fly like this. And I always say if I don't have
it, I don't need it. It's always good to have a
backup. I think that is what I'm going
to endorse to the audiences and it's always good to fly over the
spot in GPS. So please make sure you choose
make that decision wisely. There is also There is some.
Climb bars to climb without rope.
There is also like a reason why I feel like it's different.
So if you look at the solo climb bar without rope, without
anything might told you lots of risk.
But there is the special feeling.
And then I think we are again back in the adrenaline stuff.
So if it's smarter than not, actually not, but no actually I
can resonate to. That and I, let's talk a little
bit about this, because I was doing via ferrata a few days
back somewhere here in Norway and it was a fairly difficult
climb. It was, it required some level
of skill and some level of strength and everything.
But there was a time in my climb when I realized that the
Caribbeaner, the Securian Caribbeaner, which was connected
to the rope, was just giving a mental piece.
I wasn't really using it. I wasn't really putting my load
on it. And of course, when you look
down and we look around you, you're like, Oh my God, this
isn't so exposed. I'm right on the edge of the
mountain on the ledge and anything could happen.
But just because you have a carabiner, your heart rate isn't
shooting up, your mind isn't going very crazy, but because
there's is is mentally you're feeling very secure because you
have a security. So what I do understand is that
of course it is possible to take away that security of the
carabiner and the rope and do it.
But what I don't understand is that when will you reach a
decision that, yes, now it is OK to remove that carabiner.
Now I want to go full focus only on climbing and not on that
because in reality it is just, let's say, reserve.
It's just a mental piece, right? Yeah, well, that's a mental
piece. Yeah, so.
That that is a such a difficult question because I'll tell you
what I don't. I would call it stupidity
because I flew without a reserve for a few flights when I was a
90 hour old pilot. Although there were some
logistical reasons for it and everything like that.
But to be honest I did not feel I did not feel scared or I did
not feel that I was doing something stupid.
I just felt normal and this was in beef.
Although just for our listeners perspective, as soon as I got a
reserve in 2-3 days, I deployed it as well for the first time in
my life. I don't know if was I stupid
flying without a reserve, but I was flying safe.
And then the moment I got a reserve, I was like, all right,
let me just push the bar. Let me just do this.
Do you have anything to talk about this topic, anything to
say on this? This is very difficult line.
To say, I mean, come on man, we are being open to.
Each other. Let's talk about difficult
things. There's no better person than
you to talk about difficult things.
No. And then it's as you feel, no?
I was also with my father one time on how you call it.
We are. We are ATA and very bad.
Yeah, yeah. And then?
He took the rope and I said, OK, I will, I will make it without
because I was hiking just already one or two times before
and I feel hard. It's not so difficult.
And I just want to know how you feel different.
And then I hacked up without and it was everything was good and
was possible and was not too difficult.
But it's only a mental. These things are mostly mental.
And I think it's also funny to play this mental game.
Yeah, but this is again, I don't know, call it stupid, but what
is secure in the life? This is the other question,
right of the street we can have anywhere in the accident.
Most of the people, they die in the bedroom.
Would you like to? Say that having no security
makes us more secure because we don't take as many unnecessary
risks. If we have to sum up this topic.
Yeah, I don't know. I try always never to take risk
if I have some safety stuff with me.
So it's yeah, All right. I think we can leave it at.
That and let let the audiences decide for themselves.
Although it's a very difficult question, but answers are very
individualistic and people can only answer for themselves.
Yeah, I think it's better. Let's be politically correct.
For for for this one in here. But for the we are reaching the
end of time and before before I try to wrap, before I start to
wrap it up, I just want to know have you had to deal with any
setbacks in in your career? Have you had to deal with
challenges? And if yes, then what was your
strategy in overcoming them and making sure that they never come
back again or anything like that challenge?
You mean if you make? Some mistakes or something like
this, let's say of. Course no.
Sometimes many. Times you make mistakes.
No, but it's also, I remember one time in Guatemala, I fall in
my lines and then I just hardly opened my rescue and I was on
the ground. But this I was not scared after
to fly because I know what I make, which mistake I made.
No, so it's always depends. If you know what was the
problem, I think then you're not too scared.
But if you're don't know what's going on, what was happening,
then I think you have a problem because you don't know what's
what's the problem. So the knowledge gap basically.
You're saying as long as you have the knowledge then fixing
it is easy and if you don't have then it's a grey area that that
might be scary to navigate? Yeah, if you make a problem.
And you don't know what's going to what was happening.
If you get the collapse and you don't know why because you don't
react to the something, then you will be always scared about the
collapses. You have a collapse and then OK,
I bumped 2-3 times. Now it's open again.
Carded. Carded while we're talking about
this. One, do you have a certain way
of risk assessment while you plan out your adventures?
What's your thought process? Because I know you're very
spontaneous and you like going out, as you've explained in the
past almost an hour in the show, but what still what?
How do you start thinking about an adventure?
How do you start? Like how do you visualize is I
think what I was asking visualize.
I don't think too much is something better.
No easier way. No, I just go with the flu
mainly. I go with my feeling what I have
in my stomach even sometimes I tried to push and I said oh it's
a good day I should do something.
Then if I feel like I know, I just turn around and sometimes
I've like in beer example, I try to fly and I see then I try and
then I feel like I feel not good.
So I fly back and land on golf course.
I play a little bit around and say, OK, take it easy, don't
worry, everything is good. No, it's like even if I miss,
it's a good day. I say I just enjoy.
But I remember last year or at this time I was like, it was a
good day. But then I was like.
Somehow feels a little bit wrong.
So I flew back. I land in the Hot Springs.
I heck down. I was sitting one hour in the
hot water, enjoy my time there. I heck up again.
I fled back out and I'm super happy to do that.
People come back. I did this nice big flight.
I'm like, oh, I did this nice big mission or the big mission,
small mission in the Hot Springs.
Oh, I love it, man. I.
Love your outlook at the whole adventure, the way you changed
it, and it seems like you're at peace with the reward and of
course the risk versus reward. And that's I think the best way
to navigate it. It's so foolproof.
Yeah, I never have time because if I go somewhere, I take my
time. I don't go there for two weeks.
People go in there for two weeks.
Of course they have to push you want to more.
For me, I say OK, if it's not happened, I don't care, you
know? Got it, Got it, Philippe.
I think Philippe, before we wrap it up, usually there's a
tradition on paralleling Atlas where I ask my guests to share
11 flight that has stood out from their lives that that they
can remember. I'll be very thankful if you can
share with our audiences one such airtime that you've had,
which kind of stuck with you and which you're very thankful, and
which you've looked, be it a be it a pleasant or unpleasant 1,
whatever your choice. Yeah, the hacking fly.
Was nice. It was not really nice for my
friend, but it was also a nice adventure because I went just
for a hacking fly and then I went to golf course.
I went there and then somebody told me my friend crashed on Big
face. And then they say ah, you come
down and then you open because he was sleeping with me in the
same room. And then they say ah, we need
the passport and blah blah blah. They say no, I will not go
there. Like go to Big Face.
Where is my friend lying? So I took off again and then
only with shorts. So I land on 3000 meter with
shorts and then luckily Debu was also landing there and Alex, one
other Austrian guy was already before there.
And then we had to spend the whole night I think 2428 hours
till the chopper come. We have to spend there on the
mountain stream. And it was crazy.
It was for him, super painful sometimes.
But in the end, it was a story I will never forget.
I have a good friend, one of the best friend, and he's lying
there and he's suffering. But yeah.
And then this was managed to have as good time as possible.
And even when he was laughing, sometimes he was like, oh, it's
so painful. But I'm like, oh, sorry.
Yeah. But at the end now everything is
good. Now we can laugh about this
things now. But yeah, at one point I was
already very sad. But luckily everything went on
the good timeline. Yeah.
Love it, man. And I think.
Camaraderie and airmanship is such an important part of our
sport, and the way your actions were that they probably helped
your friend mentally a lot, which was way more important
than any anything else. So good to hear that, Philippe.
I wish they make more pilots like you in the air and also on
the ground. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you should.
Open up a Philippe Philippe Zelander training Academy or
something like that for yeah, spread the knowledge from that.
The podcast can only reach so many people.
Your teaching has to influence more.
But yeah, of course, I think you're doing whatever you can in
your own way, yeah. All right.
Philippe, I think on that note, it is a perfect time to call it
quits for now. Although your adventures and
your stories are endless and I think we can definitely hope to
bring you back whenever next possible for you with a new
topic so we can share and spread the word of paragliding and
everything around it to our audiences and your followers and
fans. So for now, it's been an
absolute pleasure and honor, Philippe, and I hope you touch
the sky with glory and time to come, as you have been so far.
Yeah. Thank you very much.
For your time to have you in your show and probably see you
soon in India or somewhere. Sounds like a plan man as.
Long as it's your time, I'm in.