1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,720 With the choroid you can see what's happened and then the 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:09,720 people can talk about it. But what I know from origami is 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:11,880 it will come back to the original shape. 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,320 It means it's like sponge, like air. 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:16,680 It's elastic. So you have a reborn. 6 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:21,160 I don't really understand how it can absorb the energy like the 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:26,200 choroid is doing. The second thing is Origamis and 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,320 this kind of brands to big manufacturers and these big 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,960 manufacturers are producing from many small brands generally. 10 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,160 Thank you for coming, Eric. I've been wanting to get in 11 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:48,320 touch with you or somebody from your team for a while to get an 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,960 idea about Fly Neo Atalier. Explain to our audiences about 13 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,760 Fly New Atalier. What is Fly Neo and Atalier? 14 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,920 Sounds like a really fancy name. How did you choose the name and 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,520 what is your brand all about? The name is Neil. 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,840 It's not Neil Atalier. It's just a matter of URL and 17 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,280 and ID for Internet. But the name of the brand is 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,600 just Neil. We put Atalier just to say that 19 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,000 we are not a huge ASEAN workshop. 20 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,440 We are sort of people working like a small Atalier. 21 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,000 We also actually because we are designing everything and we are 22 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,680 producing everything in our workshop in France. 23 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,360 Neo Neo came from the idea that trends are not only barglading 24 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,040 in most of the outdoor sports, trends are creating designs, 25 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,440 colours, functions and they send everything to Asia, were real 26 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:40,040 designers while making the patterns they produce there and 27 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,600 they import and sell them in Europe. 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,440 They consider that the big brands are more like marketing 29 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,320 people or design people, which are really good to sell the 30 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:50,800 products, but they don't know how to make with their own hand, 31 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,680 like a Craftsman and they always only design. 32 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,040 We produce in France, we even ship and we make the 33 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,480 certification. Everything is made inside the 34 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,920 same building right now where we have certain people working and 35 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,479 we are in the middle of one of the biggest playing sites in the 36 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:12,760 world, in Nancy, where we live, where we practice. 37 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,520 This was the main idea of Neo. We call it Neo because the main 38 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:22,960 trend now for all sports outdoor is to go to Asia and import with 39 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,440 consequences for the planet. If you know the film Matrix, Neo 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:28,960 is trying to be out of the trend. 41 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,200 So we call it Neo to be out of the trend. 42 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,080 And the second reason the name Neo is because it's the last 43 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,880 letter of the Barber alphabet. This letter is the logo of Neo 44 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,840 and means Freeman. This is the reason why we call 45 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,840 the brand Neo, because we do things in the industry. 46 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:47,880 Thanks for explaining it so well. 47 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:51,360 I think this gives our audience an idea about much more than 48 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,800 tomato and website. It's brave to come across as a 49 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,240 brand based on Europe and China is a status quo. 50 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,320 We're going to try and do our manufacturing here and compete 51 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,040 with all the big ones who have a fully structured assembly line 52 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,680 and the material production outsource to a much cheaper 53 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,400 labour market. Where to go, Eric? 54 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,720 More power. It's a part of the main strategy 55 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,400 of NAO because if you compare to Vietnam, for example, most of 56 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,720 the backpacks on the outdoor sports market produced mainly in 57 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,640 Vietnam. The difference cost of salary 58 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,280 all charge including between France, Vietnam are between six 59 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,240 time to 12/12 time more expensive. 60 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,920 In France. If we want to pay our sewing 61 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,320 lady, we have to put high quality products, high quality 62 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,040 materials, a lot of innovation to be able to sell 30 to 50% 63 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,000 more expensive our products. It's like the luxurious product 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,400 industry, the need to sell really expensive and put the 65 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,400 best of their knowledge in their product to justify higher price 66 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,280 to pay the salary. So we are in the same situation. 67 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:54,440 For me, it's ethic to produce the product where we practice 68 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,680 the most activity. Doesn't mean that we don't 69 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:01,200 export to USA or Japan, but most of our market is Germany, France 70 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,560 and Switzerland. It's important for me to be 71 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,960 local. The objective is not to have a 72 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,000 huge factory. We, we, we are 30 people now, 73 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,240 perhaps we 35 or 40. I don't want to grow in numbers, 74 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,320 I want to grow in quality and excellence of the products. 75 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,440 This is the main philosophy of the brand, to be able to sell 76 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,560 more expensive to pay correctly our employee. 77 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,040 That's wonderful to hear that that capitalism is not the 78 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,560 driving force behind this. And I think what what what makes 79 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,240 me curious is that you guys have been in the industry for quite a 80 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,920 while, maybe 10 years or more. And they all were 12 years ago, 81 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,880 the first harness called the string, the mountain harness 82 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,760 since 35 years. I start, I was 17. 83 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,880 It means bag lading industry for yeah, more than 30 years. 84 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,920 I start, I was 19 years old as a trainee. 85 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,880 I went to Korea and I was Edel, that's the biggest manufacturer 86 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,440 in the five months and this and I met who was very important in 87 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,160 my life. We tried to work together in 88 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,080 9/19/91. I work for ITV local brand in 89 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,480 Nancy. Then I joined the Gene when he 90 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,160 created Gene Gliders in 1998. I was always working in the 91 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,240 manufacturing of paragliding Adele, ITV Gene leiders. 92 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,200 They all were producing local because Gene is Korean in Asia, 93 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,120 so he was producing in Asia ITV and was producing in France, so 94 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,920 it was local in the 90s. I continue to create my own 95 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,520 brand to be also local manufacturer. 96 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,680 Have you found it challenging to meet the price bracket or 97 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,480 satisfy the order books just when it comes to numbers? 98 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,440 Because economies of scale is a big thing in in the industry. 99 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,480 And of course, if you produce in a larger number in a place where 100 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,920 it's a lot more cheaper, if you can justify the balance books or 101 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,520 investment into your project. At times, sticking to these 102 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,640 principles for any manufacturer out there doesn't make sense for 103 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,000 people to choose this part because of the value it adds to 104 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,840 your life other than money. Or have you faced this question 105 00:05:56,840 --> 00:05:59,600 that I I could have just gone mainstream and tried to compete 106 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,320 on the rules that everybody else plays with rather than set my 107 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,200 own? It's a silence. 108 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,120 We have to design our products in a way that we will produce 109 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,240 them in France. We consider distribution 110 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,400 marketing to be able to be competitive. 111 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,840 It's a real big challenge. At the beginning we were doing 112 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:18,000 harness and wings for speed riding. 113 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:22,080 Now we are also doing backpacks for mountaineering, climbing, 114 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,680 skiing and all the sports. We're practicing ourself. 115 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,440 The easier way would be to go as yard to produce. 116 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,600 I created a factory in 2001 in China, so I was managing a 117 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,400 production. It was not difficult for me to 118 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,160 have the right contact, but I want to challenge myself, to 119 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,520 challenge ourselves and you can do something special. 120 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,240 My objective was not to be the biggest manufacturer in the 121 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:45,680 world. I'm not able to do that. 122 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,840 My objective was not to have a huge company. 123 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,920 I don't need much money. I just want to live and make my 124 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,080 family living and my employee and family of my employee living 125 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,320 out of that by doing something also I'm not doing. 126 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,520 It's real challenge because every year it's hard to survive. 127 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,240 We invest a lot and went step by step. 128 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:06,760 I'm not coming from a rich family. 129 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,160 Every year we have to buy a new machine. 130 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,640 It was a lot of investment. Now we have around 40 sewing 131 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,280 machine in the company. We have a laser cutting machine, 132 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,720 machine to cut the webbings, many different process to cut 133 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,720 fabrics and step by step we build that within the last 12 134 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,000 years and now we start to be a little comfortable. 135 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,440 We were rating a small workshop. We made our own workshop five 136 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,360 years ago. Last year we increased the size 137 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,000 of the workshop double. Now we have a workshop with 138 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,840 Chisa 1001 thousand square metre every month, every week. 139 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,680 It's a fight to survive. Because in France we have more 140 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,080 tax, more social charge, more expenses on you. 141 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:48,400 I have a chance to have a wife who really understand my 142 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,520 passion. Because sometimes some people 143 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,040 tell me why you don't go produce in Asia and have much more 144 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,960 money. Life is more the challenge than 145 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,440 to give money. What a way to put it across. 146 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,400 It's heartening to see a brand like this come out and set their 147 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,600 own rules and stick to that. But just out of curiosity, Eric, 148 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,120 I, I want to touch upon manufacturing paragliding. 149 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,160 Manufacturing is distributed. It's not strength centralized. 150 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,520 In Europe, you have sky paragliders who make their own 151 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,320 thing and you have aerodynamics in Sri Lanka. 152 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,160 So there are multiple factories, different places. 153 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,520 Then you see people like you doing your own thing here, 154 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,560 Gabriel from Vintech and and Spain. 155 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,640 So there are European based small factories and then there 156 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:34,280 are Asia based big factories. What basically goes behind in 157 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,320 trying to have a business like the start out search for 158 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,440 investors like every other big business does? 159 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,039 Or is it more or less like a small group of friends coming 160 00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:44,560 together and saying, hey, we have the expertise and we're 161 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:46,400 going to pull in our money and and get it done. 162 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,440 How does the behind the scenes look for the audience? 163 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,600 Freaking enough way of manufacturing the world. 164 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,720 The first one is big manufacturers who'd have their 165 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,000 own brand. You have a lot of brands on the 166 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,680 market, marketing people, designers with compute in their 167 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:06,040 office and there's a certification but don't produce. 168 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,920 Sometimes they even don't know how to put the thread inside the 169 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,840 needle. And this kind of brand to big 170 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,760 manufacturers in Sri Lanka, in China. 171 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,720 And these big manufacturers are producing from many small 172 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,040 brands. Generally, if you want to become 173 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,160 a major brand in the paragliding market, brands gagging leaders 174 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,920 like Skywalk, Ozone, they have their own production facilities 175 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:30,640 in Asia. Producing in your factory, you 176 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,360 cannot be a major brand on the market because you need to 177 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,440 control the quality. It's super important quality and 178 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,080 safety of the products. And to be able to make 179 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,240 innovation, you need to make your own investments in your 180 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,440 machine, in your people, to train your people and you need 181 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,920 to have your own production. The sub category is brand like 182 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,360 me. We also consider small brands 183 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,360 who try to do high quality and to make a lot of innovation, 184 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,040 making local production and try to succeed with that. 185 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,840 We don't have to mix people who have their own production 186 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,480 difference and brands who are working with the supplier. 187 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:04,920 For me, it was just the beginning. 188 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,160 I was experiencing the paragliding market and I was 189 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,400 distributor for Gene in France. And then I put all the small 190 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,640 money I had to produce a first harness. 191 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:17,240 I went 1010 to climb and I was with a friend and this friend he 192 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,880 was using climbing harness. You cannot open the harness. 193 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,360 You have to put it like a pant and when you are out there it's 194 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,360 very difficult to wear. I was using a Black Diamond 195 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,440 bolder harness for climbing. You can close it and then you 196 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:34,400 have the straps, you can close them with power gliding and as I 197 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,240 create the string harness which the leg strap you can close 198 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,160 directly in the Caribbeaner. Then after many brands called 199 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,200 this concept, I start to sell it for my friend and they say why 200 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,280 you don't create your brand? And then the idea to make made 201 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,440 in France products came because there was a lot of unemployment 202 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,320 in France. Yours and I consider that there 203 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,560 were a lot of shoeing lady. They were selling clothing in 204 00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:58,600 the shops. They didn't have possibility to 205 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,760 use their knowledge. I decide to create the company. 206 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:06,080 I didn't get much money. We went step by step to now sort 207 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,720 of people. Some friends came with a little 208 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,000 bit of money to help me or IT, but we never add huge investor 209 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,600 in the company. Wow, That's what passion 210 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,920 projects are about. You have the motivation and the 211 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,560 universe figures out a way to people of your honesty. 212 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:22,600 Eric, does it take to to start a brand? 213 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,120 Do you have a certain bit of orders for, for the wings that 214 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,720 you can say, all right, I'm selling 10 wings or 20 wings a 215 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,840 year so I can go to this factory and say take my money, take my 216 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,880 design and give me the raw material? 217 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,280 Or do you start with whatever you have, especially in your 218 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,320 case and or do you go with big brands or big investors? 219 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,680 If somebody wants to get into this business, what is the way 220 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,120 for them to get started in this direction? 221 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:48,800 The first thing is to fly and love to fly. 222 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,680 If you want to do products in bag lading, you need to fly and 223 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:55,560 to love to fly. You have a friend who has a ski 224 00:11:55,560 --> 00:12:00,000 factory just 200m from my factory and he's an Olympic 225 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,480 champion of skiing. He likes to ski and makes his 226 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,320 own ski. No, I'm not the world champion, 227 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,840 I'm paragliding, but I fly since a long time and my passion. 228 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:11,200 So you need to have ideas to create a good sensibility in the 229 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,000 air. I learn this Gene misses 230 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,160 sensitive in the air to be able to trim around us correctly. 231 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,120 We have a few friends and sewing machines start. 232 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,160 Another possibility is some brands explore around them. 233 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:28,240 They find money start with a big investment in marketing and and 234 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,880 designing. If the success for the at the 235 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,360 beginning generally is it to a big factory in Asia. 236 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,080 If there's a success, they need to make their own factory if 237 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,760 they want to be a major brand. It depends on what you want in 238 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,200 life. So the first thing is to have 239 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,040 the passion for playing. This is the most important. 240 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,120 There's a lot of people who came in the paragliding to for ego or 241 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,240 because they thought it will be a big business. 242 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,280 It's not a big business if you don't have the passion for 243 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,560 flying it's. Different, Why do some brands 244 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,200 fail after a period of time because I've seen that this is a 245 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:01,600 very niche market where you are trying to target some very 246 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,760 selected limited amount of people. 247 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,120 But some brands like NL, as you said, Asif has the market, has 248 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,560 the cash flow, has the product line already done, just 249 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:15,240 vanishes, goes out and some other brands as let's say Axles 250 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,040 was pretty big, few other, I cannot keep on taking names. 251 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,360 But a lot of times see that brands have their upward curve 252 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,720 like when the main owner who's really passionate about it and 253 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,280 the brand has received very well and then it starts going down. 254 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,560 Is it because these businesses are passion based and not run in 255 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,880 a professional business way? What exactly is the reason why 256 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,600 we see brands coming and going and very few actually stay for 257 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,280 long? Because like I said, it's mainly 258 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,080 based on the passion compared to other business. 259 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,600 When it's not based on passion, you can sell it and find 260 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,600 professional people to continue the story. 261 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,040 But in the world, are you mainly a human process with someone man 262 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,440 of several months, be it sometimes they can be or they 263 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,280 can be less innovative. It's life. 264 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,600 We are not always at the top, the world champion, not the 265 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,240 world champion for 30 years. The most difficult for a top 266 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,880 leader brand is not to become the first one on the market to 267 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,320 stay here. And behind the paragliding 268 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,680 brands you have some very important men who are there. 269 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:15,240 There are few I would say I know very well is Gino. 270 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,320 Gene is a fantastic designer. He's a fantastic person. 271 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,160 He was at the top and he's still in the main brand, but he was a 272 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,480 number one in two states. Super difficult because 273 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,440 competitors try to gain in paragliding it. 274 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,040 It's a matter of passion and there's not a lot of people in 275 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,000 the world who are passionate for paragliding. 276 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,800 So you need to to find that and probably the people who have the 277 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,640 passion. I know that Gene is not the best 278 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,800 guy in business. He's a super designer, but he's 279 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,800 not the best guy in business. So it's difficult to be stable. 280 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,960 And the second reason is probably the people in 281 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,960 paragliding think too much about the product. 282 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,560 They always say, ah, I'd launch A2 liners ENC or if I launch 283 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,240 this armors or if I launch that, make sure we'll be good. 284 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,280 So they think a lot about the product and they don't think 285 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,000 enough about the brand. And the best example and 286 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,520 probably one of the best success in the paragliding market is 287 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,640 Advance, Advance Launcher ENC. And Advance is the most stable 288 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,400 brand in the last 20 years, 20 years in the industry because 289 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,720 there is a value of the brand. It's a matter of business and 290 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,240 vision. You are for your company. 291 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,080 We have people who are creative, passionate, paragliding. 292 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,840 It's a wonderful story. We were born one another years 293 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,400 ago. We fly it's magic. 294 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,160 We are super lucky. These people have a passion. 295 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,880 I met a lot of designers in in my paragliding life 20 years ago 296 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:35,880 and then they all have passion. Probably less business way and 297 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,640 the guy who have a good business way, they have less passion. 298 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,320 So it's not the business where you will earn the most money. 299 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,280 I think that's. Would say life is like this 300 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,040 finally. This is one thing that I've 301 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,440 commonly seen with a lot of creative people, let's say 302 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,920 artisians, musicians, a lot of them who are trying to put their 303 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,200 heart and soul into what they're making are least bothered in 304 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,280 trying to have a structured marketing plan or coming up with 305 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,680 a commercial game where they can make money out of it. 306 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,840 But what I was wondering is, Eric, when a new consumer, let's 307 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,280 say somebody who's getting into or somebody who has been in 308 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,160 there for a few years to know the brands and all their 309 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,640 technologies and everything behind it. 310 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,920 Investing money is not easy because paragliding isn't the 311 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,040 cheapest. It requires you to come out with 312 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,680 at least two 3000 minimum if you want to own a pre owned kit or 313 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,360 at least four 5000 minimum if you want a good brand new 314 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,280 performance level. Choosing a brand is a personal 315 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,360 choice. Do you have any idea how people 316 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,680 can prioritize choosing their brands? 317 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,600 Legacy factor helps, but that legacy is built history. 318 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,240 Seeing the early decline of a brand will not be that visible. 319 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,760 Let's say if a brand has been innovative for 20 years and it's 320 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,840 not innovating anymore for the past five years, you still can 321 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,840 go out and give your money and invest in something that is not 322 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,480 as meaningful when it comes to decision making as a customer. 323 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,960 What should people really look out for to spend their hard 324 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,800 earned money in the most efficient manner in this 325 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,560 industry? I think the powergliding is 326 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,640 expensive. If you fly with a plane it's 327 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,200 more expensive. There's other sports who are 328 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:03,920 more expensive than the park lading. 329 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,359 Finally, ski is also expensive. If you don't go ski touring and 330 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,240 you to buy your ski pass every day, it's also expensive. 331 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,839 But park lading is expensive. I would advise begin don't 332 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:18,240 choose the cheapest brand because if they are cheapest 333 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:22,319 reason with the highest brand with the highest price you have 334 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,920 a second end market. For example, if you take our pod 335 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,960 harness for lightweight harness, it it's asset Max Pinot and Tim 336 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,440 Elongi were using in the last red bulletin Subs. 337 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:39,040 This harness is one of the most expensive light pod harness. 338 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,840 But after three or four years using it, you can still sell it 339 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,000 900 or €1000 on the second hand market easily. 340 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,200 It means harness is cost €2000 at the beginning, but after 341 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,800 three or four years, you can still sell it at 50 percent, 60% 342 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,480 discount of the price. But if you take harness which is 343 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,160 very fragile with a cheap brand, it will go to rubbish. 344 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,120 So in fact the money you invest, you will lose everything. 345 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,800 So perhaps you will buy it 1500 or 1300. 346 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,800 But finally, you cannot resell it with I brands with you can 347 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,440 sell it second. And so it's sometimes better to 348 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,640 buy brand than to buy new and cheap brand which should not be 349 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,560 able to sell. This is the first thing. 350 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,920 The second thing is go to professional dealers and tell 351 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,920 them I want to fly this harness, I want to fly this wing and feel 352 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,840 and if you feel good with your wing harness then you can buy 353 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,240 it. Try equipments, try different 354 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:33,960 things and speak with other people. 355 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,400 Be careful with the forums as bullshit forum but go to 356 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,760 professional people instructors, discuss with them and see on the 357 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,720 landing some guys using harness or wings you would like to fly 358 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,280 and test yourself. Even beginners can test 359 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,280 themselves. They can test beginner wings and 360 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:52,400 say I prefer this one. If you are sensitive, try to see 361 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,960 who is behind the company, how the company is producing, is 362 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,480 there other their own factory and try to understand understand 363 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,320 that. But don't go the cheapest way, 364 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,400 that's for sure. Especially with rescue parachute 365 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,320 harness. And for example, I'm designer of 366 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,360 harness. You can see that if you fly with 367 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:13,160 different kind of harness, you will use a lot of different 368 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,320 stability, different geometry. Harness is not only a fairing 369 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,240 you, it's a geometry, comfort, stability and performance. 370 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,440 So when you go to try few different brands of harness, you 371 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,680 will see that sometimes you can have a unstable harness which is 372 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,800 not able to turn nicely and you can have stable harness which 373 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,440 are able to turn very nicely. So try and test your gear. 374 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,040 You want to buy it. Love the way you put it. 375 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,760 This is pure gold. Anybody who wants to re listen 376 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,480 to what they said, just hit the rewind button on Spotify or 377 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,360 wherever you get your podcast. This was pure magic. 378 00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:48,800 Or advice on how to buy it. But Eric, you mentioned not to 379 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,560 buy a substandard reserve parachute, let's say round 380 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,600 Reserve or Rogallos. They have very standard design 381 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,360 that has stayed the same for years and they don't really 382 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:04,280 require any specific expertise in sewing them together or any 383 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,640 special materials. So why can't you go in for the 384 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,320 cheapest reserve like somebody who was? 385 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:11,480 Merging economies of scale, buying the raw material in in a 386 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,240 lot more quantity and has set guidelines and a set standard 387 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,080 for manufacturing. Where will that make a 388 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,800 difference? I got to talk with SIV 389 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,400 instructors. They will tell you that there 390 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,240 are some rescue which are really good and some rescue which are 391 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,240 really bad. It's not a matter of 392 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,200 manufacturing, it's also a matter of design. 393 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,040 There was apex geometry rescue in the past and now we have 394 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,440 square or planar rescue. It's a matter of who will be the 395 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,240 lightest, what will be the area, what will be the weight range, 396 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,000 What is the main objective of a rescue? 397 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,200 Opening time. It's in crate stability, how you 398 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,360 connect it to the harness, the mirror effect, the position. 399 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:52,560 When you learn there's a lot of about that rescue is not only a 400 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,920 rescue, it's also harness. Some rescue are really good and 401 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,560 some rescue are not good. But I see the market and I, when 402 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,920 I discuss instructors with dealers and other most famous 403 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,000 brand, not only the biggest, most famous brand generally have 404 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,480 the best rescue. I don't really trust you. 405 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,920 You can go to some factory and buy a rescue and put your 406 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,560 sticker on it, your logo on it. But I don't really trust that. 407 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,040 I prefer to go to manufacturer and develop his own way. 408 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,760 Because designing a product is not only to say I design and 409 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,040 sell it, it's also what I want to do with a product. 410 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,200 We'll use my my product, which way we'll use it, where does it 411 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,960 fly, all these things. And I prefer to go to a 412 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,400 manufacturer who say we did this product in this way than to go 413 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,280 to a manufacturer or buy your rescue which is already 414 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,240 designed. Let's take Rogallo right? 415 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,720 1970s That does not change. So if you are supposed to 416 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,520 manufacture it according to certain guidelines, this should 417 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,320 be the span length, this is how the riser should look, this is 418 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,320 how strong the lion should be. Can you still have different 419 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,400 characteristics based on what you have manufactured in a 420 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:05,400 different factory? Or are all different brand name? 421 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:10,680 On top of that, when the design is so standardized, how can the 422 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,720 quality be different? The market is changing. 20 years 423 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,200 ago we were flying with rescue, which were free. 424 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,600 Now we are flying with rescue which are between to one point 425 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,760 5K or 2K. To get this result, we need to 426 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,520 change materials. For example, we were using 427 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,440 polyester lines for a long time. Now we are using Dynamo lines 428 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,360 most of the time. The fabric need to be seen on it 429 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:33,520 lighter. The lock desk is still the same 430 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,920 in the last year certification. You will use different 431 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,600 materials. It's like a bar glider. 432 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,240 You don't take a standard design and just change the material. 433 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,560 When you change the matter, you have to adapt the design. 434 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,240 This is the first thing. I'm not specialist with Roger 435 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,040 who prefer square rescue or long rescue. 436 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,160 Even on the square rescue, you can have different patterns, 437 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,920 shapes, trim, trim your apex lines. 438 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,720 You can afford it in a different way. 439 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,920 Small trimming makes the tension in the panels different lines, 440 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,640 many things. A good R&D team, a good 441 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,040 designer, several designers, good test pilot and enough money 442 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,800 and power to develop that. This is a brand like Neo and we 443 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,640 are not doing rescue and we are not doing wings first. 444 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:15,720 It will not be profitable to produce in France. 445 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,080 We are just doing rucksack and harness and it's a huge work of 446 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,040 development. We are five people in R&D and 447 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,920 Neo. It's a big investment of 448 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,840 development. Some brands pick one rescue, one 449 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,720 manufacturer, one wing, one harness. 450 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,480 They don't do specific design work. 451 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,040 They just change colour of the pocket here and the PC stem 452 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,200 here. But generally is a concept is 453 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,480 not water pipe pocket and PC stem. 454 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,000 It's design aerodynamic. It's a basement with geometry. 455 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,400 It's it's a base harness for comfort weddings and buckles to 456 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,560 be strong enough. This is a basement of and like I 457 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,280 tell you since the beginning of of this conversation, generally 458 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:59,080 you need R&D to make a real and even in rescue, it's not 459 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,040 completely stand out. Even I'm not specialist with 460 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,760 Rogelo, but I think Rogelo is not completely stand out. 461 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,400 When you come from a normal Rogelo fabric rescue to a light 462 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,760 1, you need to adapt things. It's. 463 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,960 Very interesting, I love the way you explain it. 464 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,880 We should emphasize choosing gear rather than just sticking 465 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,520 with marketing while while talking about products. 466 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,240 Eric, I see Neo's inventory has grown a lot. 467 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,800 I've followed your website for a few years. 468 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,680 You were heavily into speed riding wings in the beginning. 469 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,520 Now when I look at your product range, you have diversification 470 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,400 harnesses, backpacks, protectors and accessories. 471 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,920 How did you decide to diversify? What was the decision making 472 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,280 like when you started to introduce more innovation and 473 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,160 production in your inventory? What was the thought process 474 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,200 behind that? It looks like we diversify, but 475 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,040 in fact we didn't diversify. It's very simple. 476 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,320 We are craft banner, so we use our hands and our machine to 477 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,960 make products. Our speciality is to produce 478 00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,920 with thin fabric, OK and very thick part of lading harness. 479 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,880 You need to sew very thick weddings and materials. 480 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,560 This is our speciality. When we make harness and 481 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,000 backpacks, you need to be able to sew thin antique. 482 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,960 We specialize this way. We are the only workshop in 483 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,000 France able to do that, so we just decide to not to make 484 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,240 paragliders or rescue parachute because it's not where we are 485 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,800 the best. We didn't diversify so much. 486 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,040 We came back to do what we are the best and what we are able to 487 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,680 do with our machine on our hands. 488 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,240 I'm curious about the helmet part because we have a topic 489 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,240 with the Icaro 2000 Christian, the Hang Gliding legend talk 490 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,680 about helmet manufacturing, designing, certification. 491 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,800 You are one of the few brands which have diversified into 492 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,200 making their own helmet. How did that come into the 493 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,600 picture and what was that journey? 494 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,800 If you can briefly talk about that before I move on to other 495 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,200 technologies. This is the only product we 496 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,920 don't manufacture ourselves, only product of the new range. 497 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,440 We don't manufacture in France. Technically it's difficult to 498 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,960 find in from the manufacturer able to do such hardness. 499 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,000 We found a really good manufacturer, very technical one 500 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,680 where we have a good relationship and we can work. 501 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,000 My experience is good in textile manufacturing and backpacks. 502 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,720 I'm not the specialist of helmets. 503 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,280 There was a lack of on the market of a good helmet. 504 00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:21,360 There was a lot of brands coming in and out of the market. 505 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:24,120 Was difficult for the dealer to have something stable. 506 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:27,840 So we just decide to make one helmet for paragliding and also 507 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,720 certified for ski climbing and ski touring in partnership with 508 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,480 this manufacturer ABS shell to be strong. 509 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,360 We didn't find the right manufacturer, so we found a part 510 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,920 technical partner able to do it. We worked two years on the 511 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,760 development and now sell it. We have a few projects 512 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,240 paragliding in Mets. In the future it will be one 513 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,720 more than more. But we are not becoming a 514 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,080 paragliding manufacturer and I will not install in France 515 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,240 factory for manufacturing because I'm not specialist. 516 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,600 Love your take on that. Nice to see somebody saying 517 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,960 money is not a prior but adding value to our brand and people's 518 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,040 is talking about collaborations. One thing I'm sure not just me, 519 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,320 but a lot of people in community have been curious about is 520 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,480 Korean man, because I was reading on your web page that 521 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,760 you and Korean go way back. You've been working with them 522 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,840 since 2014. You've gone back and forth about 523 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,960 this revolutionary new technology that was adapted with 524 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,960 gin and a few other brands. Let's talk about Korea and you 525 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,320 and this protector, which is promising but questioned in the 526 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,120 industry. Well, when I start my brain off 527 00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:30,240 harness, I was thinking about protection. 528 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,920 The protection is not difficult to engineer to manufacture in 529 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,640 France, but not easy because of labour cost. 530 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,240 Then I was starting to think about something inflatable 531 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,960 differencing. One guy, very important in Neo, 532 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,520 came in the company. He was 20 years old and it was 533 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,200 Matthias who is still working with me. 534 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,880 He's the chief of production in Neo and the designer with me in 535 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,880 the company. Matthias came with this idea. 536 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,480 He was training in sport product development school. 537 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,960 He came and told me, yeah, look, there's a Coroid and why not go 538 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,920 to them. So with Matthias, we went to see 539 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,960 Coroid. They were interesting about our 540 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,400 and about our position. We were already innovating in 541 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,880 terms of geometry of harness and in the paragliding speed riding. 542 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,000 They said, yeah, we don't want to work with the biggest brand, 543 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,600 but we want to work with a brand which is close and innovating 544 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,320 and has a good image. Then they start to work with us. 545 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,960 We made the exclusive contract for world wide paragliding 546 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,200 market. It took three years to launch 547 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,400 the first Colloid protection. It's a lot of time. 548 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,320 I just became employee of the company and now he's managing 549 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,240 the company with me. Step by step we develop new 550 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,200 generation and next month we will launch a new generation of 551 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,480 Colloid which is more flexible with a sponge and round shape to 552 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,520 fit the new aerodynamic harness. What was interesting for 553 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,560 Mattress and me at the beginning is the way that corrid absorb 554 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,280 the impact. All the protection we had the 555 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,800 long time bag lading, moose airbag or the rebound. 556 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,840 The energy goes back to your when you crash like in the car, 557 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,920 the structure deform and absorb by the noise, heat and 558 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,840 destruction of the material. Then the energy is not a 559 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,080 rebound, it was material which are elasticity. 560 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,760 The mousse is elastic, the air is elastic, the plastic or 3D 561 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:24,000 printing things are elastic, the polymer tube which crash and 562 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,560 this the energy out. And it was the main thing which 563 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,240 was really interesting. It was interesting because it's 564 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:35,680 more safe pearlite and it's more compact, only 7 or 8 centimeter. 565 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,440 So this is how we start to work with Korea. 566 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,960 We have engineers and we start to work in collaboration. 567 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,760 I like is they are big company, I hope, but they still continue 568 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,680 to be faithful to us and we still continue to innovate and 569 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,200 it's a really nice. I want to talk a little bit 570 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,080 about the working of Korea because a few crashes, I'm 571 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,920 pretty sure a lot of people have seen them in parallel lighting. 572 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,000 You've seen the blocks of Korea protector that the green blocks 573 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,280 twisted upon impact. What causes them to switch away 574 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,000 from their place and stay rigid and not really have the crash 575 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,800 being fully taken care of or fully absorbed? 576 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,160 How does that, let's say you look at a projector in courtyard 577 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,400 where these blocks are included with foam or some material to 578 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,600 keep them in place upon impact. We have seen the through some 579 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,400 photographs which are being shared online that the blocks 580 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,120 twist out of place instead of crumpling. 581 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,440 I'm just wondering what was that all about? 582 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,960 Has that been solved? How is that being looked at from 583 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,000 a manufacturer's perspective? The main thing is the first 584 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,640 thing we thought when we development is to full to put a 585 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,760 full block of choroider, but it was not good in terms of impact 586 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,480 to have a good absorption of impact with a big you should 78 587 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,000 impact, it's much choroid. In fact you crush only 10 or 588 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,920 20%. So absorption of impact wasn't 589 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,200 enough. We decided to go with blocks of 590 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,840 choroider. But you are right, we need to 591 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,320 keep the colloid vertical as much as we can when we crash. 592 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,320 Which was a long test. 3 hours of test to find the right 593 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,800 mousse, sponge material and shade to fit the certification. 594 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,440 When you crash, the colloid doesn't twist to the side, then 595 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,640 then there's still absorption of impact, but it will not be in 596 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,840 unit to find the right balance between the colloid and the 597 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,640 sponge. If you have too much sponge, 598 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,240 it's not necessary. It was a big deal to find the 599 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,440 best way step by step. Each time we change the 600 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,560 percentage of corridor protection depends. 601 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,800 It's a long or short protection. We understand more about the 602 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,720 corridor and we found that to put a round shape under the 603 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,200 protection gives a better result if you don't crash exactly 604 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,560 vertical if you. Crowded. 605 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,760 On the side, step by step, we are improving this this 606 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,080 technology. I'm just curious that did wasn't 607 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,160 like in the beginning, let's say this happens with any new 608 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,840 technology, right? When you come up with a new 609 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,800 technology, it has its own laboratory applications where 610 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,720 you learn some dynamics of it and then it has its own real 611 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,160 world applications where it's a whole different product. 612 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,640 So so was there, I mean, there was a time in parallel lighting 613 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,160 community when Corey had was just, you know, being questioned 614 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,240 for not absorbing side impacts. Well, and where the blocks of 615 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,480 Corey had were twisting and making them. 616 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,960 I wouldn't say more dangerous, but at least they were not 617 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,360 serving the purpose upon in crashes. 618 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,320 Has Korea Technologies reached a point where it is absorbing 619 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,440 impact from all directions or is the R&D still going on where 620 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,520 foam and other technologies are still more reliable? 621 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,400 Impact on the parallel lighting harness is not only about 622 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,200 choroid. We cannot put choroid or mousse 623 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,840 or air all around us. There's a limitation of angle of 624 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,640 attack. There's a way to limit it. 625 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,880 The problem with the choroid is you can see what's happened when 626 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,600 you crash. All is the other protection you 627 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,040 cannot see. You don't know what's happened 628 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,360 when you crash. Most of the time the the airbag 629 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,000 is going away and it's not efficient at all, but you cannot 630 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,240 see it with your eyes after. With a moose you cannot see if 631 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,200 the moose was good or not. With an airbag you cannot see, 632 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,880 but with the corrid you can see what's happened and then the 633 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,680 people can talk about it. But with the other protection, 634 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,440 they don't talk because there's no problem. 635 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,720 Some people will say it's easy for Eric to say that like this, 636 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,800 but since we start to talk 30 minutes ago or 40 minutes ago, 637 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,520 I'm transparent. I'm not a guy who is telling 638 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,320 bullshit. It's just the fact that the 639 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,040 people can talk because they can see. 640 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,240 We had some guys who said my parade didn't work because it's 641 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,880 not crashed, and then we received some video and the guy 642 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,880 didn't follow the parade, he followed his feet. 643 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,400 Makes sense, but. If he were falling with the 644 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,360 moose. What's the most? 645 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,880 With the sponge, with the. Sponge. 646 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:48,880 Sponge, Yeah. Foam protector. 647 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,720 If he was falling, he cannot see because it will stay same 648 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:56,400 effects except if you have a huge impact on it with but with 649 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,000 the Corey, they say my Corey didn't crash, so it didn't work. 650 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,160 It didn't fall on the Corey. Some say I didn't follow, it 651 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,200 didn't work. You fall too much on the side, 652 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,520 but another protector will not protect you. 653 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,560 It's not a problem of technology or safety. 654 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,040 It's a problem of perception of the people on the courage. 655 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,199 They are able to say it's working a lot, but on an airbag 656 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:20,040 or another protector. I'm just curious when it comes 657 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,480 to twisting of the blocks, does that have any explanation? 658 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,000 Like why do blocks get out of their place and get twisted in 659 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,760 the form where they were? And like, how did that happen 660 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:29,840 and how are you guys? Fixed. 661 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,480 We improved a lot of this problem and now so on the big 662 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,320 protection we will put a moose and our sponge very soft, which 663 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,400 will help also to avoid the twisting. 664 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,840 For sure. The twisting is if you are 665 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,239 really on the side, but it will be same with whatever protection 666 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,440 all the the mass of air or the mass of sponge or whatever will 667 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,040 slide away. We made the the harness to the 668 00:34:55,719 --> 00:35:01,120 yen certification 50K, one over 63 centimeter falling down with 669 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,000 a certain speed. And what we say to the people is 670 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,160 when you see that the sponge around your colloids is starting 671 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,920 to be broken after impact, you need to change your protection 672 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,520 like your helmet when you fall in ski or whatever. 673 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,960 It's in principle, but we try to improve that. 674 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,440 But generally what we receive the the when the people crash, 675 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,240 when the senders bags are colloid, most of the time 676 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,920 there's a part which is crashed times 1 of the persons, 677 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,000 sometimes 80%, but there's always a part which is crash. 678 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,080 So it's just like helmet, you have to try and make it. 679 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,120 But when I see that you guys are fusing materials, bringing in 680 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,000 new technology and embracing it with the older one and trying to 681 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,880 make it a bit more so solid protection, I want to talk about 682 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,040 this brand new protector that Neva launched because this just 683 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:57,040 came into my curiosity. Their designers were on the show 684 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,880 as well, and they talked about Origami. 685 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,320 Origami and Coriode seem similar. 686 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,720 Lightweight impact protection, streamlined reducing drag, red 687 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,320 corrodes impact protection and Origami's flexibility. 688 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,800 Are we looking at combining these technologies or do you see 689 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,160 these both revolutionarized technologies working together in 690 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,920 time to come? We tried some years ago to 691 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,080 develop something like origami and how we can all see different 692 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,360 corrode. It looks same but it's 693 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,200 different. We tried 3D printing and the 694 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,080 first thing is Orikami doesn't crash. 695 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,920 Orikami is elastic when you crash like I explained before. 696 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,960 What I know from origami is it will come back to the original 697 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,200 shape. It means it's like sponge like 698 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,600 air. It's elastic so you have a 699 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,440 ribbon. I don't really understand how it 700 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,400 can absorb the energy like the choroid is doing. 701 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,320 The second thing is Orikami is almost double weight than the 702 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:59,600 choroid for the same thickness of of protection or choroid will 703 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,280 be 3:00 to 2:00 to 400 grams and it will be 800 grams. 704 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,920 It's quite difficult to to to compare. 705 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,040 For me it's different concept and the way choroid is working, 706 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,760 it's because it's crashing and that's simple important. 707 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,880 The similar way is that in terms of sickness, for sure we are 708 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,280 reducing the sickness and we are reducing the drug. 709 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,120 This is something we we are doing since neo, since a long 710 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:29,960 time. And This is why gene ladders use 711 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,360 it for January 4, genealase 5. This is why also ozone is using 712 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,480 it for the submarine. This is why also accounts were 713 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,680 using it for the pilots of exalts. 714 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,920 It was to reduce the drag because it's good to put a good 715 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,920 long fairing, but if you reduce the drag, it's also better. 716 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,920 This is between Oikami and Korean for sure. 717 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,200 Same result in terms of impact, we have better impact because we 718 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:57,720 are around between 30 without rescue with between 303132 G 35 719 00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:00,240 maximum but they are more close to 45 or 50. 720 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,320 So I am not getting nothing against Arikami, but you asked 721 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,200 me the questions and I. No, I love your honesty, Eric, 722 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,640 And please don't feel sorry to speak the truth, man. 723 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,080 Like the, the, the industry and the audience loves listening to 724 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,440 people like you. So yeah, as I said in the 725 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:15,840 beginning of the show, more power to you. 726 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,920 Love, love the way you you break out these things. 727 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,680 As we're reaching the end of the show, I want to touch upon 728 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:22,800 reducing drag before we run out of time here. 729 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,840 When you go all these time while we have seen that arrived pro 730 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,320 prone position is I don't know. I don't know if it's called 731 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,160 prone position, but lying down position is better than sitting 732 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,720 position and harnesses. And we try to make as much drug 733 00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:39,560 reduction as possible. But then I see something as big 734 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,080 as submarine coming into the market and completely taking 735 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,760 away keeping things smaller and thinner because submarine is a 736 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,960 whole big casing around it and the size of the harness is 737 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,040 substantially larger than any other harness that we have seen 738 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,000 in the market. Let's say XR7 or Genie Race 5 or 739 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,400 4, maybe whatever it was like the pod harnesses that were 740 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,680 existing even from French manufacturers, even from all the 741 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,880 big ones. We're all about very thin single 742 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,200 structure board harness with the fairing. 743 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,120 But submarine comes in and designs a whole inflatable 744 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,240 structure which is bigger in surface area. 745 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,040 So when we have surface area and not being a problem for drag, 746 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,600 why can't we add bigger ticker protectors around us in these 747 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,240 harnesses that we are starting to fly now to make it even more 748 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:29,600 safer? Like why is the thinking or the 749 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,760 R&D not going in that direction? Just a problem of IO dynamics as 750 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,240 we developed this in this way, basically Ozone did a wonderful 751 00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:40,000 job. The first thing is to find the 752 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,040 best AOD and then on the second thing, they separate the body of 753 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,400 the harness with the out shell. And most of the time you have 754 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,040 the perfect shape of the harness and you gain a lot of stability 755 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,760 and not much wrinkles. If you have a good way to manage 756 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,440 EU axis, it's improving even EU axis and all the way in 757 00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,360 transition in term of performance. 758 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,520 And then as they choose the best shape and to choose the best 759 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,920 shape you need to be really with a small segment of aerodynamic 760 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,960 segment which is facing the wing should be the smallest one. 761 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,720 This is why you need such a material like corrode to be 762 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,840 smaller and then as it just choose the shape which is the 763 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,560 best. Flexibility of the fairing is 764 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,040 that you're saying? Yes, how do you call like a 765 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,520 boat? The rudder. 766 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,120 The rudder stable. Which we did on our prototype. 767 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,200 It's a wonderful concept. A paraglider is a wing a lines 768 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,680 and the body with arms, head and armus. 769 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:38,040 If you put bigger protection, you increase the size of the 770 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,240 circle around the pilot, the front surface area of the wing 771 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,880 and lose the aerodynamic effect because you will need to have a 772 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:49,400 longer harness. And then it's practical anymore. 773 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,280 And we are not sail plane, we are still paraglider on the 774 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,320 backpack. You need to have protection. 775 00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,840 And I think the problem is not, I think there's a a compared to 776 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,200 a fairing on harness, the gain of performance is huge. 777 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,960 There's a huge difference fairing normal harness to 778 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,360 fairing. There's a gap, the gap is small 779 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,120 compared to the gap with harness like submarine. 780 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,840 So I think the problem is now, I remember 20 years ago when we 781 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,440 start to have pod harness, except Richard Gallo in the 90s, 782 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,320 but when we start to have pod harness, the pilot, it's only 783 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,520 for competition. It will never go, It's 784 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,840 dangerous. It's like when we start to fly 785 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,120 alcohol in the 90s Everybody, some people say it's dangerous, 786 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,040 it will kill the sport. This is the wrong way to think. 787 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,120 All innovation can be interesting. 788 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,120 We have to be open and ALCO helps the safety in paragliding. 789 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,640 In fact, people thinking it's too dangerous, it will kill the 790 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,080 sport. No, ALCO was helping the safety 791 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,800 and I'm working every day with Tim Alangi, the best pilot. 792 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:55,760 I was nicest style. The best style and team is a 793 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,520 wonderful pilot and help us everyday to to improve the 794 00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,440 quality of the safety of our products. 795 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:02,760 So we don't have to go against the revolution. 796 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,800 And this kind of inflatable harness. 797 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,680 Probably it's our job designer. It's the work of engineers who 798 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,840 are working on that to learn about it. 799 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,760 And step by step, perhaps it will come to the normal pilots 800 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,800 or perhaps not, it will stay only to the best pilots. 801 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,040 But the problem is, if now we say we increase the size of the 802 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,560 protector for what to gain more protection, or if you increase 803 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,240 the size of the choroid, you will not gain more protection. 804 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,840 You will lose the efficiency of the back protector. 805 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,480 If you put a 20 centimeter back protector, you will not have a 806 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,320 better result than 8 or 9 or 7 centimeter. 807 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,800 Like I said, you need to crash 80% to have the best result. 808 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,080 If with a 20%, you will not crash the percent. 809 00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:49,120 So first you don't gain safety, OK, of course you can put 810 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,120 inflatable, but inflatable to to reach the certification you need 811 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,480 to be 22 centimeter. Then you will need to increase 812 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,160 the circle around the pilot and then the pilot will have the 813 00:42:58,160 --> 00:42:59,840 harness here at the top of the head. 814 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,320 No, you need the harness not so high. 815 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,640 You cannot increase the safe to increase safety and it will not 816 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,000 be useful. You need something easy to use, 817 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,600 which is practical, not too hot, not you spend 20 minutes to 818 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,440 install it. And this is a job of our job 819 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,520 designers to be able to propose a product in the future to the 820 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,120 public, which will be good to fly with safety. 821 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,040 For the moment, suddenly top pilots and for the moment, in 822 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,440 terms of visibility, it's not also the best. 823 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:34,280 It's good for the top pilots, but it's not good for the normal 824 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,240 pilots. Then we need to improve. 825 00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:39,160 It will take two years, three years, five years, 10 years. 826 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:40,920 I don't know. It's a new adventure. 827 00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,120 This is why we like power gliding and designing a products 828 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,600 in power, in power gliding. There was a young aerodynamic 829 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,800 engineer who was working for eight months for this project 830 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,680 with with Salome, who is also engineer at the end of the 831 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,480 training. As Julian explained, it's only 832 00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,200 for top pilots. I said yes for the moment, but 833 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,960 in the future perhaps not. If I remember 20 years ago with 834 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,760 the pod harness, it was not. It was only for top pilots and 835 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,160 now you can see a lot of pilots because it's first more 836 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,760 comfortable you can be and it's nice to fly on a long cross 837 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,440 country flight. We don't speak about aerodynamic 838 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,320 just for that. It's interesting this concept, 839 00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:25,520 just let it go and we will see what's happened and what the 840 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,360 manufacturer and designers are able to create with this new 841 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,400 technology. Wonderful tool. 842 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,840 Now you've answered 10 questions. 843 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,000 I was going to ask you this beautiful description but why 844 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,560 are we talking about the submarine style? 845 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,680 I saw a Maxim flying it and a few other new pilots flying this 846 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:44,560 all white beautifully designed submarine style harness. 847 00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,200 I'm wondering submarine shape has a different appearance 848 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,360 outlook from ozone Gen. or near birds. 849 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,520 Woody Valley is bringing its submarine rocket soon, which is 850 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:55,560 likely to come on the show as well. 851 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,800 Everybody's trying to achieve the same motive of reducing 852 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,600 drag. Then why do we see them looking 853 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,920 so differently from others? Because let's say paragliders, 854 00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:07,880 paragliders. Everybody wants to achieve less 855 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,680 drag and the most performance. So all the triple C wings look 856 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,560 the same, but submarine harnesses are starting to look 857 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,440 very different from each other already. 858 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,640 So what is the difference inside in different in shape and how 859 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,320 can consumers going out to buy this figure out which shape is 860 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,400 better or which shape is doing less drug like more less drug? 861 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,040 Because to us we don't have the technical know how or expertise 862 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,120 that you have. How does decision making come 863 00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,880 from a consumer's point of view when he looks at these? 864 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,960 In the paragliding design, it's very different. 865 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,000 It's designed as a secret and you cannot see it when you watch 866 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,520 the glider in the air. There's a lot of parameters when 867 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,840 you design a ring, which makes a big difference. 868 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,200 If you are not in front of the computer with all the files, you 869 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,080 cannot see it. For example, when you speak 870 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,560 about profile, nobody can see a profile. 871 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,280 Even a designer when you see a ring, he doesn't know which 872 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:04,320 profile the designer use the profiler you if you watch, you 873 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,320 cannot see it. You cannot see top and bottom 874 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,840 the same way. Everything is hidden. 875 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,680 Paragliding is much different than we think. 876 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:15,400 For the development of our pro model for our team and Max, we 877 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,000 concentrate on the best performance and aerodynamic. 878 00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:22,320 It was the only way we try more than 80 shapes and not 879 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,200 prototypes 80 shapes. We don't have the money for 880 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,680 that, but try to simulate in a computer way at more than 80 881 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:34,800 shapes and we finalize our shape in the best way to be the best 882 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,920 aerodynamic. Since the harness we developed, 883 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,160 the pro model is 1.5 kilo, it's generally for I can play 884 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,040 competition, but it was a project of performance. 885 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,800 It was not only for I can fly, it was a general project of of 886 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:47,840 performance, which is not finished yet. 887 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,920 The other advantage we had is in Neo since 10 years we have a 888 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,880 very good geometry base of harness and based harness, which 889 00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,000 is super stable, nice to fly, nice to turn. 890 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,400 We have a big experience with the suspender on the competition 891 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:06,200 team and Max knows really well that's the geometry of the step. 892 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,080 So the basement of our harness, I always consider that the 893 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,040 basement of of harness is a geometry. 894 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,480 Geometry is super important. There's some manufacturers even 895 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,680 don't fly with the harness when they design harness. 896 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,240 We for to make geometry like a stay up or suspender. 897 00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:23,680 We we spend 200 hours in in the air. 898 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,640 It was a long way to 2 or 300 hours in the air to reach this 899 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,040 objective. So our basement harness were 900 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,720 really good. Then we had to put this shape 901 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,360 and the shape of outside was only the objective, was only the 902 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:40,840 performance. And when you like, I can tell 903 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:44,560 you when you have a guy like Maxim Pinoye in as an ambassador 904 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,240 of the of the brand, you don't discuss much about performance. 905 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:52,000 He knows better than anybody else what his performance on the 906 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,920 bar later. I agree, and I think having 907 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,600 Maxim as part of your team does tell a lot about your brand. 908 00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,920 It is. It is some brand where you can 909 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,120 try and do a little bit of research and figure out how to 910 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,520 place your trust in it. While you're talking about the 911 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:11,120 stand up protection, I've seen you have open patent for the 912 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,120 stand up rescue system. Can you tell our audiences a 913 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,680 little bit about stand up rescue? 914 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,680 What is it? How can they have that in their 915 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,600 parrot lighting in a better way than the conventional rescue 916 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,680 which leaves you hanging? You can install Rogal Apex 917 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,480 square rescue or planar rescue, whatever you can install 918 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,640 whatever you want. I started to make to make the 919 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,680 development of stand up system. It was a discussion with Mark 920 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,720 Boyer, the one of the most experienced test pilot in French 921 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,240 federation for testing the certification. 922 00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:44,720 He's also very experienced SIV pilot, well known in France 923 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,960 pilot and he was in the French team long time ago and he's a 924 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,720 really expert in safety and and performance in paragliding and 925 00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,440 we he's a very good friend when we had a discussion when he made 926 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:59,120 SIV. If the pilot has no time to pack 927 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:03,520 his wing in the air then you will have a mirror effect when 928 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,800 you have the shoulder strap the rescue attached on the shoulder 929 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,480 pulling backward and if you have the wing attached on the main 930 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,680 points pulling it forward, you will fall on your back. 931 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,480 Down planning is quite risky. I have come under down planning 932 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,280 once the only time that I deployed. 933 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,800 I honestly wish I had removable carabiners or something because 934 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,720 that that position is not the most comfortable position to hit 935 00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:30,600 the impact or anything like. That everybody is studying the 936 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,320 party, lighting gasolinely. I don't like when there's a big 937 00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,040 role and everybody follows the role. 938 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:37,840 We lose out thinking if the role is correct. 939 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:39,920 But it's a thing in our world these days. 940 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,240 We put all those people followed that don't know if the role is 941 00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:44,880 correct or not. I don't say that I'm out of the 942 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,800 law, not a guy like this. I follow the law if the law is 943 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,000 correct. So it's my own common sense. 944 00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:54,440 But and then when there's a rule in paragliding, I like to see if 945 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,720 the rule is correct. For example, in stability of 946 00:49:56,720 --> 00:49:59,040 harness, everybody say, ah, you have to mean you need to have 947 00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,800 high hanging point. No, not all the time. 948 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,720 Sometimes yes, sometimes no. It's probably 20% off the 949 00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:10,200 stability of harness. There's many other factors, 950 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,840 especially the center of quality. 951 00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,960 So there's generally in activities like power lading, 952 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,280 there's people who have big rules and they follow these 953 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,480 rules and they don't think if one day they checked if the rule 954 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,040 is correct. Everybody about the rescue was 955 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,600 thinking that shoulder attachment is best because you 956 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,640 stand up. Yeah, but you stand up. 957 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,040 You cannot move anymore. You cannot control your your 958 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:33,360 rescue. You cannot turn. 959 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,880 You can get stranger here like it happens to team and Angie. 960 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,160 It can happen many things. Then I study and I said it's 961 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:43,040 stupid this this world to have only on shoulder strap. 962 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,520 Everybody says that. So everybody follow like chips. 963 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,640 And I was thinking let's do a system because most of the pilot 964 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:55,200 are opening the rescue really low around 151 hundred meter, 965 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:58,600 even 50m above the ground. So it's quite low to recover a 966 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,800 wing. So generally most of them are in 967 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,560 a mirror effect. We should have a stem where the 968 00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:08,880 mirror effect will be, at least for the position of the pilot. 969 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,520 The best I put in the same place, the rescue on the wing 970 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,960 and then I create a system which stand up the pilot. 971 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,880 He will sit in sitting position very straight and then if you 972 00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:22,760 want to put his legs first, he can. 973 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,680 If you want to keep his legs inside the harness. 974 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,600 It's super safe and it's also easier to recover your wing, 975 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:32,040 your wing and recover your wing in the correct position. 976 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,200 No mirror effect. You can grab your risers to turn 977 00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:37,760 yourself. If a house is coming in front of 978 00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,520 you or a tree or something like that, then you can put a 979 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,480 protection in front. These things make the experience 980 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,360 of making rescue is much more safe and much more comfortable 981 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,640 than to the pilot. Brings back memories of 982 00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,200 Sharknose invention by Ozone where they brought out this 983 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,200 seemingly revolutionary technology on the market and 984 00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,760 then people eventually started copying it because they had an 985 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,920 open patent. So are we? 986 00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:06,520 Are we looking at this from Neo also being widely adopted? 987 00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:07,960 How's the market response so far? 988 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,840 1st I open it because safety and paragliding is my passion. 989 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,400 If I can bring safety to my passion need to be open. 990 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,760 I put the patterns to show people that it's a important 991 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,480 step in term of a safety. If you don't put the patterns, 992 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,640 nobody see it. So we put the patterns and then 993 00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,200 we said it's open for somebody who wants to use it. 994 00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,120 Just have manufacturer wants to use it, just have to contact us 995 00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,920 and we will put it on the RNS with the system inside. 996 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,440 It will take time because it's not a concept which is super 997 00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,400 easy to understand. So it will take time. 998 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,800 Step by step. We launch it less than one year 999 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,200 ago. We put the patterns two years 1000 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,760 ago, sorry, we launched the RNS less than one year ago. 1001 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:51,000 Step by step people are thinking about it, discussing and some 1002 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,880 people have this RNS suspended on the start to use it in this 1003 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,640 ID and then the instructors start to see the real effect. 1004 00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,480 So it will take time to bring that and we already think about 1005 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,680 the next generation of harness to improve it. 1006 00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,640 So all this kind of technology, they are not visible first. 1007 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,360 So it's not so easy. You need to explain it's quite 1008 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,640 technical. So it need a lot of time for the 1009 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,560 people for the brain of the people to get used of it. 1010 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:18,520 And then it's not a technology which makes, I don't know, you 1011 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,320 don't increase free free near glide ratio or you don't very 1012 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,000 visible in fact, but step by step, we are more people 1013 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,680 interesting. And and and it's a good 1014 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,960 argument. But for me, after I taught me 1015 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:36,040 when I sell products, it's AII try to give the best of myself 1016 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,040 and my R&D team in the product because I'm not alone. 1017 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,760 I have AR and D team with me and philosophy of Neo is to give the 1018 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,800 best in equal harness or rucksacks or backpacks. 1019 00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:50,360 And then if I can give, if I consider I can give a better 1020 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,400 safety, I put it after the people follow or don't like. 1021 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,800 Yeah, I listen. But the most important for me is 1022 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,720 to give the best in each product. 1023 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,960 I think it's visible in your philosophy and the way you guys 1024 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,360 have brought it out. As we are close to wrapping up, 1025 00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:09,760 Eric, there are two last topics. First, world's safest automatic 1026 00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,680 aluminium caravan. I mentioned on your website this 1027 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,240 is an outcome of your collaboration with Australopen 1028 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,040 and Australopen Rocket. What is this about and why does 1029 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,040 it get the tag of being one of the most innovative and safest 1030 00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,240 in the world on a website? How is it different from what's 1031 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:27,360 available on the market? Ten years ago, during the 1032 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:32,480 development of String 2, we had some issue with the carabiners 1033 00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,480 when we made the test. Then we stopped to study and we 1034 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:39,760 went to the university in Nancy. We specialized in metal and 1035 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,680 materials and we stopped to make some tests and the guy is the 1036 00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,160 engineer told us that the main problem with aluminium is 1037 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,320 fatigue. Then we start to study about it 1038 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:52,040 and we discover or we made a test with carabiner we were 1039 00:54:52,040 --> 00:55:00,000 using and 85,000 times after 880 * 1000 cycle cycles the 1040 00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:04,160 carabiner broke. We were surprised and then we 1041 00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,240 start to look around and we saw that I knew that in the 2001 I 1042 00:55:08,240 --> 00:55:11,560 was 12 peanut get got a problem like that not in the air but on 1043 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,360 the ground. Then I went there visit them and 1044 00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,480 said we need to make something more safe and then they told me 1045 00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,440 we need to increase the size from 8mm cylinder at the 1046 00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,160 beginning of the carabiner when we manufacture it we will pass 1047 00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:27,760 to 1010mm and then we need to block the problem of fatigue 1048 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,560 with the systems. They call it auto lock and you 1049 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,800 can go on our website to see exactly the drawing. 1050 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:38,200 And in addition of that, we saw also that the new harness, the 1051 00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:43,080 frontal rescue for when you have I can fly or size of the riser 1052 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,680 decrease. There was many things around the 1053 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,680 shape of the carabiner which makes that it makes it more 1054 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,080 fragile. If you take a square carabiner, 1055 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:56,240 aluminium carabiner, I put the scene webbing for the harness 1056 00:55:56,240 --> 00:56:00,040 and scene webbing for the riser. It will be diagonal in the air 1057 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,320 and we made some tests and discovered that you will lose 1058 00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,560 70% of the efficiency the of the strength of the carabiner which 1059 00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,200 is huge. Then we decided to make a 1060 00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,240 carabiner which has the right shape with the right finger 1061 00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:15,760 opening finger of the carabiner and then with the system we 1062 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,520 block the fatigue. This is why we developed 1063 00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,960 carabiner together with Austrian brand Austria Pin. 1064 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,360 We had the exclusivity for the first two or three years of 1065 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,200 selling and then we open it to the market. 1066 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,800 In paragliding. It's the only thing in 1067 00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,880 paragliding which is not certified. 1068 00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:36,600 In terms of strength, harness, rescue, spreader, bars, gliders, 1069 00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,680 everything is certified except the carabiner. 1070 00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,440 I don't know. So you are finding carabiners 1071 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,120 who are certified. So we make this certification. 1072 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,320 But in fact, climbing doesn't need the delta fatigue effect 1073 00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,200 because there's no they just fall. 1074 00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:56,840 But to to prevent this risk of breaking the carabiners because 1075 00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:58,320 of fatigue, there's no certification. 1076 00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,160 There's no certification for the carabiner. 1077 00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:04,320 This is why we decided Neo to, to try to manufacture the best, 1078 00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,120 we call it the most safe carabiner. 1079 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,520 And it's a little bit heavier carabiner. 1080 00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:12,920 I have two daughters. They are the general of my life. 1081 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,200 They are the most important thing of my life. 1082 00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,720 And I don't want that they lose their father. 1083 00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,160 So I prefer to carry more carabiners and to come back safe 1084 00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,600 at home. And then when they discover that 1085 00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,560 the federation, German federation, French federation, 1086 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,440 they decide to say to the people, at least change it every 1087 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,760 500 hours or at least change it every five years. 1088 00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,200 This will avoid most of the risk. 1089 00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,000 But in addition, we made this Caribbean error. 1090 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,680 For that it's very important. Surprised me when Dyneema is so 1091 00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,080 much stronger. Why did why did the industry not 1092 00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,280 turn towards Dyneema as the replacement for Caribbeaners? 1093 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,680 And how are Caribbeaners just trusted more than something that 1094 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,360 is available so easily? I always consider that in 1095 00:57:57,360 --> 00:57:59,480 development of projects there's no magic solution. 1096 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,640 You have a solution for each purpose. 1097 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,840 Problem way to use the gear. Connect of Dyneema is good. 1098 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,880 For example going to high mountain climbing and you are in 1099 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,800 a slope very steep and then you need to put your harness. 1100 00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:20,320 If you cannot open your leg strap, you need to put it like a 1101 00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,840 pent. Then it becomes really risky, 1102 00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:24,600 especially if you have the crampons. 1103 00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,120 And if you have a connect it's much more difficult to open the 1104 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:30,320 leg strap. It's better to have a carabiner. 1105 00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,280 Dynamo is really good, but it's not it doesn't fit to all the 1106 00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,760 way to use it. I don't like the people who come 1107 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,960 like for example, of course I consider Choroids that the best 1108 00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,320 protection on the market. But now we are launching a 1109 00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,720 Permare from Skywalk for inflatable because we are very 1110 00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,400 good relation with gin, but also with Skywalk. 1111 00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,040 We are really friends with these two brands and Skywalk. 1112 00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,880 We use it for the leg strap harness, removable for the 1113 00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,920 string. I don't consider Choroid is the 1114 00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,560 best technology, but I don't say that it's good for everything. 1115 00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,400 I will use Permare For this kind of use, Permare is better than 1116 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,560 Choroid and for some other use Choroid is better than Permare. 1117 00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,680 I like to be open mind and choose the way I like. 1118 00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,680 I'm free to use and it's the same in development of product. 1119 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,080 If you go only one way, one day you will be wrong. 1120 00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,960 For example, I was not in favour of of fairing and things like 1121 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:23,000 that and now I discover that it's good. 1122 00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:24,640 So we will have fairing in the future. 1123 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:27,200 In fact able honest me personally, not because I don't 1124 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,680 care, but I see discussing with Maxim, with team, with the 1125 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,880 engineers as a possibility. So I change my mind and we will 1126 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,400 go this way also. I love it, but I think that is 1127 00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,200 the ideology behind your success. 1128 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,680 Before I let you go, this might not be revolutionary technology, 1129 00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,920 but it's quite my eye and I think it's worth talking to our 1130 00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:49,400 audiences about it that what's the Neo, what's the new Neo 1131 00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:52,880 Dyneema RIP stop all about? And is that another thing that 1132 00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,000 you have invented or is it just a customization to suit the 1133 00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:57,960 needs of parallel lighting? Or if you can talk a little bit 1134 00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,840 about that? It was must start with non 1135 01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,800 weaving fabrics. I'm not aware I'm I'll be 1136 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:06,040 thankful if I'm going to introduce. 1137 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,640 You have fabrics which the name it was fabric made in USA and 1138 01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:13,680 the name I, I don't remember. I have a lost big hole in my 1139 01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:18,560 memory and it was non weaving. So when you sue them you have to 1140 01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,040 type it because it was breaking. It was waterproof but not 1141 01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,480 flexible. Ageing was not so good. 1142 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:28,200 There was a lot of problems and then some manufacturers start to 1143 01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:32,760 work on Dyneema as a ripstop based on the based on the 1144 01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,080 materials. So we decide to go to see 1145 01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,480 there's only two, two companies in Europe who are able to to 1146 01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:44,400 diet, to weave, sorry to weave Dynamo and one it's our partner. 1147 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,480 And we decide to visit them and check what we can do. 1148 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:52,280 We finally put a fabric of polyamid with the ripstop of 1149 01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,720 Dynamo, the right coating, coating on the right calendar. 1150 01:00:55,720 --> 01:01:00,880 We discover that for the same touch of fabric, we gained 70% 1151 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:05,080 of the weight or at least 50%. It's only 1 / 10 grams. 1152 01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:09,520 Normally this kind of fabric to be so strong is about 50 to 350 1153 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:11,040 grams. We discovered there was no 1154 01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,200 elasticity, that was water repellent, not completely 1155 01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:16,560 waterproof. We can wash it. 1156 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,720 There was no market when you put it in your harness. 1157 01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,920 So we developed this this material with Catalan, this 1158 01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,160 brand, this manufacturer from Barcelona. 1159 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:29,760 The main problem of this fabric is compared to a normal 1160 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:33,640 paragliding aeroxide fabric, it's five times more expensive. 1161 01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,120 We have the labour cost and the material which are very high. 1162 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:39,960 This is why your price are a little bit higher. 1163 01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:43,160 But if you want to say high labour cost, you need the best 1164 01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:46,440 material. You cannot make cheap, so This 1165 01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,760 is why we decide to use this material and it's one of the key 1166 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,360 of the success. Your your brand isn't innovating 1167 01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,440 in in small things and spreading it out on larger targeted 1168 01:01:56,440 --> 01:02:00,040 audience because these things are invented are are being seen 1169 01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:03,480 in all your accessories, such as the harness and the 1170 01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:05,440 neoprotector. The helmet is a bit of a 1171 01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:07,160 surprise. Hardly the paragliding brand 1172 01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:10,840 developed into helmets as well. But I think on that note, Eric, 1173 01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,760 we have covered everything on my part is, is there anything that 1174 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:15,760 you might want to, you know, throw your light on? 1175 01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:21,000 That people working in NEO, most of the people working in NEO on 1176 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,840 our outlets like Johnny Fredrison and Clam K2, we are 1177 01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:26,920 working together since more than 10 years. 1178 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:32,840 Maxim Pinot, Team Alangi and there were Lorry also Lorry, 1179 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,520 Genovese. All have a big passion for the 1180 01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:37,000 mountain and not only paragliding, mountain sports, 1181 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,640 skiing and climbing. And for the people in there it's 1182 01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:41,760 the same. We live in the same area and 1183 01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,880 share sports in the mountain. We love products and beautiful 1184 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:46,440 products. This is what I learned from Gene 1185 01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:51,440 to Gene always told me a beautiful wing will always fly 1186 01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:53,440 better than not looking nice wing. 1187 01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:57,240 So we try to do beautiful products and we try first to do 1188 01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,360 a product for us. We don't only follow the 1189 01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,440 marketing trend, we do products we like to use. 1190 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,240 This is our main goal. Sometimes we don't follow 1191 01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,920 trends, but we try to be authentic in the way to design 1192 01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,600 on the way to produce in there. This is the most important. 1193 01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,200 Lovett MA, more power to you and brands like you. 1194 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,360 From all of us at Panidama Atlas, I wish you luck. 1195 01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,040 Keep rocking and putting the magic. 1196 01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:20,000 Thank you for being on the chair. 1197 01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:20,360 Thank you.