1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:11,160 The day was tremendous. We had lift to, you know, 1213 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,160 thousand feet and the mountains were ahead of us. 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:21,520 It's a big range of rock and glacier and ice and deep valleys 4 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,480 with nothing but a river flowing through. 5 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:29,040 You put your glider in all kinds of shape and situations and 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,119 learn to deal with them and to a certain extent anticipate that 7 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:36,520 they're and that is the training that you need to fly a really 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:48,320 hot glider. What's up everybody? 9 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,880 Welcome back to another episode of Paragliding Atlas. 10 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,120 This time around we are navigating the topic of risk 11 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,160 versus reward. And in installment too, we have 12 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,840 a very special guest who also happens to be a very dear 13 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,800 friend, a very humble person as well to talk to, and most 14 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,400 importantly, a very competent paragliding pilot. 15 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,160 But the reason why he's a part of the show today is that he has 16 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,600 navigated the spectrum of risk versus reward with utmost 17 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,040 respect. And by that I mean that he has 18 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,960 pushed where he wanted to and held back where he had to. 19 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,240 I'm talking about none other than Subir Sidhu, a new name to 20 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,360 a lot of people, but a known person in the flying community 21 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,760 to the ones who have had the chance of sharing the sky with 22 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,640 him. Subir has lived the dream that 23 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,280 many of us manifest and that is progressing quickly. 24 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,920 And he has not only done it quickly, but he has done it in a 25 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,120 very safe manner as well. Accumulating more than 1500 26 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,560 hours in less than 3 1/2 years, Subir has made a name for 27 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,480 himself. From joining his first high 28 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,440 level competition and almost finishing in the top 10, to 29 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,520 scaling the tallest mountains in the world and chasing glory all 30 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,160 across the globe, this guy has nothing but value to add to our 31 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,280 power guiding knowledge. So tune into a very homogeneous 32 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,960 talk with one of the maestros in making in our sport, none other 33 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:23,840 than Subir Sethu himself. Savir Sidhu, what an absolute 34 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,760 honor to finally have you on the show, man, How are you? 35 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,040 Hey, I'm doing great, Andy. Thanks for having me on on the 36 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,800 show. It's really good to be here. 37 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,120 That's good to hear, Savir. I think you're one of those few 38 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,960 pilots who is who spends more time in the air than on the 39 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:38,640 ground. Mostly. 40 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:40,560 That's why it's so hard to catch you. 41 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,480 I've been trying to chase you for quite a few months now, but 42 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,840 I think it's inspiring to see your track logs and and all your 43 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,280 activity on X contests. What a life, man. 44 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:53,120 Thanks and I appreciate that. Great. 45 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,800 Just to just to get this going, what does airtime mean for you? 46 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,200 Like how and why do you chase it so hard? 47 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:06,200 Or what is this all about then? Yeah, so that's a number of 48 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,000 different things. At its most fundamental, I think 49 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,960 it's just joy. I just get a lot of pleasure 50 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,720 from being in the air, from exploring the world by 51 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,560 paraglider, seeing different sites, different mountains 52 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,480 particularly, and there's just intrinsic joy and therefore 53 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,360 motivation to just be in the air. 54 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:33,120 But also airtime to me means means progression, it means 55 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,040 learning. Every time I'm in the air, there 56 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,120 is something new that catches me by surprise and that kind of 57 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,600 adds it to my body of of knowledge, so to speak. 58 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,680 And yeah, it's just about about learning and about exploration 59 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,120 for me. I think this is one statement, 60 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,680 there's a lot of fan guide of pilots can resonate with in our 61 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,760 audience as well, that every single flight is so different. 62 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,120 It's so dynamic and it's so rewarding in its own way that 63 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,440 every time you get in the get in the air, it's it's a whole new 64 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,880 journey that you embark on. Indeed. 65 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:07,440 Yeah. But to be just for the 66 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,520 perspective of our listeners, I know you personally, most of the 67 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,000 Indian pilots or I think a lot of internationals as well know 68 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,160 you very well. But for everybody in your 69 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,560 audience, how long have you been in the sport and how many hours 70 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,079 have you accumulated already? What are the numbers that we are 71 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:24,120 looking at man? You sure? 72 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:29,000 So yeah, I started flying about 3 1/2 years ago in January of 73 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:36,560 2021 and I typically fly anywhere between 4 to 500 hours 74 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,720 every year since then. And my first year of course was 75 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,320 limited because I was having a lot of top to bottom flights. 76 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,720 But yeah, second year onwards it was 400 hours or more in all. 77 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,280 I have about 1500 hours at this point. 78 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,360 And the most of the continents all over the place in Europe, 79 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,760 in, in India, in the US, in South America. 80 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,320 And yeah, it's been a tremendous journey for me. 81 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:05,800 And these hours I would like to point out I I have accumulated 82 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:11,120 rather quickly but I have not jumped any step in the 83 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,960 paragliding progression. I started with a school wing 84 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:19,760 with an A wing, put 60-70 hours on it before I got a low B and I 85 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,440 put a good 150 hours on a low B before I go to high B and so on 86 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,480 and so forth. Couple 100 hours on AC wing. 87 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,760 Did quite a few Siv courses. I did 3 Siv courses within my 88 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:37,440 first couple years and from last year, basically I've been flying 89 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:41,040 higher spec wings. But I have to say I, I still 90 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:42,960 have my school wing, I still have my A wings. 91 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,960 And there are times I, I still take it out and it just gives me 92 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,120 great pleasure to, to fly that wing. 93 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:55,280 And so to me, it's coming back to the sheer joy and, and beauty 94 00:05:55,280 --> 00:06:00,920 of flight is where it, it's at. And yeah, I've enjoyed every 95 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,160 step in my progression. There hasn't been a desire to 96 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,760 skip this step because I want to be somewhere else. 97 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,800 I really enjoyed every moment and I continue to enjoy every 98 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:12,960 moment of. Wow. 99 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,520 I think for our listeners who did not believe, let me 100 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:20,760 reiterate, that's 3 1/2 years more than 1500 hours in the air. 101 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,680 God damn it, man, what a life and what an amazing dedication. 102 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,440 And I think for those of for those of them who are wondering 103 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:29,760 why do you still have your school wings? 104 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,240 That's because Severe likes to fly the life out of the wing. 105 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,480 So they're practically not sellable anymore. 106 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,640 Yeah, all 500 hours are exhausted. 107 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,560 And the remaining ones are probably going out and packaging 108 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,400 and ground handling. So that's why those are mementos 109 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,960 and trophies of of glory and hard work, which you probably 110 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,560 deserve. But honestly, I wish this was a 111 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:52,440 video podcast. I could show our listeners the 112 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,000 the amazing smile that you have while talking about this and 113 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,320 it's so happy to see you grinning well, telling all of 114 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,160 these stories man, Super inspiring. 115 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:01,840 Thank you. Thank you for sharing. 116 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,000 Thank you, Andy. And yeah, I might say that you 117 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,000 put it in better words than than I can. 118 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,040 But yes, I I am very enthusiastic about flight. 119 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,720 That that's so nice to hear, Sumeer, but help me understand 120 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,480 this when you're chasing something with all your heart 121 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,680 and passion like that. First of all, take us back to 122 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,000 how the journey began. Like what sparked your 123 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,640 fascination? Like how did suddenly Subir 124 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,920 Sidhu come out of nowhere and said that I'm just going to go 125 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:30,080 at this as hard as I can and probably make it count every 126 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,040 possible way. Yes. 127 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,000 So that's pretty interesting. And so my first flight was a 128 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,360 tandem flight I did about 20 years ago. 129 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,880 And at that time, I was in a very different point in life. 130 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,760 I had young kids, I was in the middle of my career and I put 131 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,360 that away as something I would like to do at some point of time 132 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,640 in the future. And I basically never got back 133 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,000 to that till about four years ago. 134 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,520 I was on a family vacation here in the Alps and I took my whole 135 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,520 family out for a tandem flight. The wife, both kids, myself, all 136 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,040 four of us were in the air at the same time. 137 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,920 And it was just a fantastic experience and a complete 138 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,080 reawakening for me that what have I done? 139 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:20,200 I should have done this a long time ago and but fortunately, 140 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,320 the moment I got back home to Seattle, I found the closest 141 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,120 school and basically signed up for a course. 142 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,840 And to a certain extent that this energy and this drive and 143 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:35,000 this motivation comes from I, I in a sense, did not take up an 144 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,480 opportunity way back then, but now I want to make the most of 145 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,960 it. I'm relatively advanced in my 146 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,560 age. I'm about 53 now and I, I have 147 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:51,120 this sense of, I would say calm urgency, but there is an urgency 148 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,440 that there's only so much time and I would like to learn and, 149 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,200 and explore as much as I can in that time. 150 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,480 And, and yeah, I'm at it will with all my interest and 151 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,080 dedication. And, but I, I would say that 152 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:11,800 because I did somewhat of a rare animal perhaps in that I know a 153 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,400 lot of my friends and other pilots who, you know, at some 154 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,720 point of time in their careers decided they've had enough and 155 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,760 all they want to do is fly and they switch to flying. 156 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,320 In my case, I was actually pretty much done with my career 157 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,040 and I wanted to move on to the next phase of my life. 158 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,080 And I was just trying to find things to do. 159 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,840 And it's, I have lots of other hobbies and interests and, and 160 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,200 pursuits. But once I started paragliding, 161 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:44,400 it immediately caught my fancy and it checks just a lot of 162 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,280 different boxes for me and I'm sure for many other pilots. 163 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:54,200 And and I just followed it. And just to give a quick recap 164 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:59,680 of those boxes, it takes it, it gives a sense of, of purpose for 165 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,800 me, the sense of purpose comes from just trying to understand 166 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,640 and, and explore the world. It gives suddenly just pure joy. 167 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:13,160 But it also takes and intellectual curiosity, or you 168 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,600 may call it a need for, for an intellectual challenge and for 169 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,800 problem solving. And I've spent, you know, 25 170 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,760 years in, in the tech industry, which is all about finding 171 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,400 opportunities and finding problems to solve and, and ways 172 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,600 to solve those problems. And paragliding gives us you in 173 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,480 one flight. If you're doing a cross country 174 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,240 flight or some challenging terrain, it's basically an 175 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:41,120 endless stream of information and of problems to, to solve. 176 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,560 And that never gets old in my opinion. 177 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:46,960 No. Wow, what an explanation. 178 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,680 I think the first thing that comes to my mind is that even 179 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:52,520 though you're Indian by origin, but you're definitely not the 180 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,960 typical IT guy regardless of spending 25 years behind a 181 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,560 computer. What a transition man. 182 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:02,960 What a transition this is. Needless to say, this is 183 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,880 inspiring and reminds me of a saying called The Better Late 184 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,680 than never. The moment you have a chance in 185 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:11,440 your life to to pursue your meaningful goals, just go for 186 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,800 it. You never know how much fun is, 187 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,160 how much fun you've missed out, and how much fun there is to be 188 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,920 treated in time to come. So way to go, man. 189 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,000 Great. But so another thing that comes 190 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,760 to our mind is when you, when you're transitioning from a very 191 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,720 fulfilling, stable life onto something as exciting as this. 192 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,560 As you said, it's technical and it requires hard work. 193 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:36,920 It's very rewarding. How do you find placing your 194 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,040 trust in people while entering the whole new industry? 195 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,240 Because obviously, as per the theme of this episode, risk 196 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,600 versus reward for you, somebody who has, who has a fair bit of 197 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,360 knowledge how the world works. You've been with, you've been at 198 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,000 the top end of your game in whatever you were doing, be it 199 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,040 working in IT. And then you suddenly switch 200 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,120 over to a brand new industry, which is a complete, you're a 201 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,640 new beginner. So navigating risk versus reward 202 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,560 and identifying the correct people in your life and placing 203 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:07,760 trust. How did those kind of questions, 204 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,040 how did those challenges come to you and how did you navigate 205 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,240 your way around them? Yes, that's a very interesting 206 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,120 question. So fundamentally, I haven't 207 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,640 confronted with any new situation or new domain. 208 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:26,080 I like to rely on multiple sources of information. 209 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:30,400 And there's a saying in science that basically in science there 210 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,120 are no authorities. There's people who know and the 211 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,520 papers that are written that are reviewed by others and so on and 212 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,120 so forth. But everything and everybody is 213 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,440 potentially fallible. And so I just approached things 214 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,840 with with a certain degree of scepticism. 215 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,320 But that is positive scepticism. That's a scepticism to try and 216 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,680 understand as deeply as I can and not just take something at 217 00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:56,960 at as gospel or face value. So I just approach it for that 218 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,000 mindset. But that said concretely, when I 219 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,680 started paragliding initially it was hard. 220 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,800 I simply went to the first school that was convenient and 221 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,760 close by and learnt from them. There were some good things, 222 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:12,080 there were some not so good things. 223 00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:18,840 But very quickly I started, even in that set up, identify who are 224 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,120 the pilots who basically have a great reputation, who other 225 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,560 pilots think of as good pilots. Certainly there's some 226 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:26,920 credibility there and also results. 227 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:28,680 I was very fortunate that a former U.S. 228 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:32,200 National champion was an instructor in this school and 229 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:33,840 that adds a lot to the credibility. 230 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,800 And there is that and definitely people good pilots are probably 231 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,520 the best source of information if you can identify them. 232 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,600 I was super lucky that within the first few months of my 233 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,640 starting, I ran into two or three pilots who who were not 234 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,040 just extremely knowledgeable, but also very helpful. 235 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:57,080 But then I also rely a lot on just books really. 236 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,880 YouTube videos for sure. They're nice and handy and 237 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,920 convenient, but I go back to the books a lot. 238 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,720 I've pretty much the entire library of major books that have 239 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,160 been written on on, on paragliding, and I've gone 240 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,280 through most of them. But so these are the kind of 241 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,800 primary sources of information. But there's another thing I 242 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:21,760 would like to add, which is I think very key to progression is 243 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:28,040 a sense of humility, a sense of not being 100% sure of anything 244 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,440 myself. Always being open to the idea 245 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,200 that I'm carrying in my head is potentially, there's a certain 246 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,320 probability of it's correctness, but it's potentially incorrect. 247 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:46,080 And so that is allows them to keep learning from new 248 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,440 information that comes your way rather than just discarding it. 249 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,720 And in that sense, I think there is something for me to learn 250 00:14:55,200 --> 00:15:01,160 from every pilot out there, every pilot I meet, regardless 251 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,400 of the skill or experience, In most cases, something positive 252 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,480 to learn. In a few exceptional cases, 253 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,600 something not to do. But regardless, there's an 254 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,520 opportunity to learn something from everyone. 255 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,680 And I just have a desire and a curiosity to find out what that 256 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,560 is that I can learn from, from this new engagement and from 257 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,720 this new opportunity that I have. 258 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:29,880 And again, I'm not sure if this is super clear, but one, one 259 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,480 thing that has added a lot to my progression that I can recommend 260 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,480 highly to people is to try within the limits of your 261 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:44,160 resources to try and fly as many different sites as possible. 262 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:51,080 Because every new site you go to, you meet newer local pilots 263 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:56,680 and some new Special Situations that a site has that the local 264 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,200 pilots will explain to you. And that helps greatly in your 265 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,880 overall body of knowledge. And it develops a comfort also 266 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:11,880 so that when you go to the next new site, you know how to assess 267 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,040 it based on all your previous learnings. 268 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,760 There'll still be something new. But you, based on your previous 269 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,440 learnings, you say, hey, these might be the risks, this might 270 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,760 be what happens. And then you correlated with 271 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,560 what the local pilots tell you and they'll no doubt add 272 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,120 something new. But all of this is helping 273 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,080 greatly the difference. Initially you asked me about the 274 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,680 number of flying hours. I think the number of flying 275 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:38,360 hours are important, but just as important is the quality of 276 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,000 those hours. Were they were they always doing 277 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,840 the same thing at the same site or were they doing different 278 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,120 things at different sites? And so I think that has been 279 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,280 very helpful for me. Got it. 280 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,880 I think just to sum it up, the first thing is look at the 281 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,240 testimonials that is check out the reviews about how 282 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,000 trustworthy the places where you're going and putting your 283 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,680 putting all your trust in. And secondly is try and gather 284 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,000 as much knowledge as you can from all the open source 285 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,560 trustworthy sources. Again, that is the key over 286 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,240 here. And the third one is be open to 287 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,560 suggestions and be open to learning something. 288 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,440 But at the same time, I, I think I, I can compare with my 289 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,359 progression and, and my early days that there has to be some 290 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,000 sort of barrier where you know when to filter out and which is 291 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,040 it. It's a bit too hard to build up 292 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:27,240 this barrier in early days. And especially if you're in a 293 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,320 younger age group, Let's say you're a teenage pilot or you're 294 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,240 somebody who does not really know how to navigate the the 295 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,640 people spectrum, where somebody who's 20 years folder to you 296 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,840 says that, all right, I've been flying for so many years, I've 297 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,920 been teaching then. And he comes out of the 298 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:46,400 statement in just because the age gap, you tend to give in to 299 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,120 whatever they're saying. So I think that is a very thin 300 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:53,640 line where you decide whether you want to give your trust 100% 301 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,040 to the person at at the school stage or in in the early 302 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,960 instructor stage. After building a bit of 303 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,880 experience, of course, it it comes easier. 304 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,360 So I think that is one thing that people can answer for 305 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:07,640 themselves probably. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's 306 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,000 Vince, said Andy. I agree with with that. 307 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:15,280 And just to add to that though, just like you said, a new 308 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,400 student should pretty much choose a good instructor or a 309 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,800 good school and trust them entirely because you're 310 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,400 essentially placed in your life in that person's hands at that 311 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,120 point and they know better than you. 312 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,240 But once you are out of kind of the school stage, you're now an 313 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,480 intermediate pilot, which by the way, most pilots will be for the 314 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,720 entire career. I, I very much consider myself 315 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,080 squarely in the intermediate pilot category. 316 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,160 There are very few pilots, advanced pilots. 317 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,600 And if anybody has any doubts whether you're on fast pilot or 318 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,360 not, you are an intermediate pilot. 319 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:52,040 So for all of us intermediate pilots, I think of paragliding 320 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,440 as an art and a science. There are parts that are pretty 321 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,400 much science in terms of rules thou shalt or shall not do. 322 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,720 And if you break those rules, you will pay the consequences, 323 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,440 if not in that flight, in some other flight where it was almost 324 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,560 exactly the same situation. It's just that the roll of the 325 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,120 dice was in your favor. So those ones are golden. 326 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,320 You don't break those. But there there's a lot of 327 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,840 paragliding that is an art. It's still evolving, it's still 328 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,480 not fully understood. And we are very lucky actually 329 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,400 to be in a sport at that stage of its development where there's 330 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,760 just so much new that pretty much nobody knows and people are 331 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,080 still feeling that out. It's very exciting actually. 332 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,280 And in those areas are the ones I would say I think all of us 333 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,560 benefit from keeping an open mind because these are not 334 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,320 necessarily safety related things. 335 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,240 These are here. Just how can you better or how 336 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,160 can you pick up better glide lines and such. 337 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,080 And the risk in those ones is that you might bomb out. 338 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,920 It's not Those are not life threatening, but they have 339 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,160 greatly in your progression if you figure those things out. 340 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:08,760 And those I would say keep an open mind, experiment, listen to 341 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,720 the session of some of the pilot, try it. 342 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,040 If it works, keep it. If it doesn't, discard it or 343 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,840 maybe try it again in some other situation. 344 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,160 But I think that is pretty. That is very important. 345 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,760 That's that's pure words of wisdom to be. 346 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,120 I think that you've put it very, very well that there are some 347 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:29,760 rules non negotiable. Stick to them or consequences 348 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,360 will be grave and hard. The other ones, they, the more 349 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,040 you work with them, the better the experience gets. 350 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,480 Nice, great, but severe. As you said, you had AI forgot 351 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,600 the term that you used, but you had a very subtle urgency. 352 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,280 What when you began the sport finally and you were getting 353 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,280 into it. So how how did you plan out your 354 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,080 hard work? What did what was your what was 355 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,960 your visualization like? What did you manifest this for a 356 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,880 while? Or was it just after the tandem 357 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,120 that had happened? Like how did hard work look like 358 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:05,120 in in your flying career? Yeah, so there are a number of 359 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:07,400 things. I would say suddenly the bug bit 360 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,920 me after the dandem flight that I mentioned and as I went back 361 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,640 to school and did a little bit of ground handling and then my 362 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,440 first flight that was instant love. 363 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,600 This is just amazing. I just want to do more of it and 364 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,720 I want to do it well. I would say there is something 365 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,320 in me which says if it's worth doing something, then it's worth 366 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,640 doing it. There's no doing something half 367 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,840 heartedly for me. And I really wanted to become a 368 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,360 competent. And one of my early inspirations 369 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:39,400 was a friend and a mentor of mine, Mitch Riley. 370 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,000 He's, like I mentioned, a former U.S. 371 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,920 Open national champion and has also done the Exiles, I believe, 372 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,400 in 2016. And a few things he told me I 373 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,440 just took to heart. And one of those was that there 374 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,040 is no such thing as too much ground handling that he would 375 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,600 like to me to see. He would like me to do at least 376 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,440 one out of ground handling per week, which means 50 hours, 52 377 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,960 hours in the year. And I took that to heart. 378 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:12,160 And I'm like, if I have to do that, then I have to track it. 379 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,160 So just like most pilots have a, a flight log and the ones that 380 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,280 don't, I would highly encourage that. 381 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,200 Everybody should have a flight log, but I have a kiting log 382 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,120 also. Every single kiting session that 383 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:27,640 I do, I log which wing I used, where was it? 384 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,560 How many hours did I ground handle? 385 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:33,200 And I, I maintain my ground handling log even now. 386 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,680 And I finished that first year and I went back to Mitch and 387 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,800 said, hey, Mitch, you'll be disappointed because I couldn't 388 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,480 do the 52 hours. I got to 39 And he's, hey, I was 389 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,240 just giving you a tough figure. 39 is great. 390 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,840 It's awesome. And I was like, OK, cool. 391 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:53,040 But but there is a sense of I think discipline that is helpful 392 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:56,320 in a lot of aspects of as long as you have the motivation, it's 393 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,200 just working out. You might envision a great body, 394 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,120 but if you don't work out, you won't have it. 395 00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:07,360 And likewise in paragliding, you aspire to be a good pilot, but 396 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:09,960 it just takes a lot of work and dedication. 397 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,280 It's like going to the gym so you can become stronger. 398 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,560 And so there are a lot of things that you have to do that just 399 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,240 take discipline. And but to your point, if 400 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,840 there's some vision or some motivation, then the discipline 401 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,840 becomes easier. And for me, the motivation is 402 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:31,320 simply to see the world by foot and by paraglider. 403 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,320 And that means I have to be physically strong so I can hike 404 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,880 and that I become a good pilot so I can fly long distances. 405 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,760 And that is the motivation for me really. 406 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,800 That's amazing to. Hear So we this puts a thought 407 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,160 in my mind. Let's say all of us have heard a 408 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,800 term that's too much of something is bad. 409 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,320 And of course there's not. The more passionate you are, the 410 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,760 more further you raise the bar for defining too much for you. 411 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,880 But let's say when it came to balancing the the mental part of 412 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,440 the hard work, the physical part of the hard work, resting in 413 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,680 between. I understand you fixed a lot of 414 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,520 everything else in life so that you could be in a position to 415 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,760 push this that hard. But did you ever face the 416 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,360 challenge of having an imbalance in between them where you were 417 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:19,560 like, Oh my God, this is I'm pushing too hard and maybe I 418 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,480 need to figure out this. Like how did how did you 419 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:26,640 navigate those kind of days? So I would say while there might 420 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,800 be some truth that extremes unhealthy for me personally, I 421 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,400 don't think I've reached that point yet because there's 422 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,200 another parallel thought. I forget the name of the author 423 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,200 who basically says for somebody to become an expert at anything 424 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,960 takes about 10,000 hours of doing that thing. 425 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,560 You might have that. And right now I'm only at 1500 426 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,080 hours and 8 1/2 thousand more hours is going to take me a long 427 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,060 time. Till then, I'm not a quote UN 428 00:24:52,060 --> 00:24:56,680 quote expert. And so I feel and another thing 429 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,000 is I have certain years of life experience behind me like you 430 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,240 mentioned, but I'm only at three, 3 1/2 years of flying. 431 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,280 And so I'm still in that early stage of this is exciting, this 432 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:12,120 is new, this is wonderful. And there is more for me to 433 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:15,080 learn than I have learned so far. 434 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,000 In fact, orders of magnitude more for me to learn. 435 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,160 And that keeps it fresh, that keeps it exciting. 436 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,840 And just to give you a concrete example, I have a background in 437 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,040 in adventure sports in general. I'm a Mountaineer, I'm a skier. 438 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,640 I just love being in the mountains. 439 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,240 I've done that for many years. And so there was a natural 440 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,840 attraction for mountains for me. And so as I started paragliding, 441 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,360 the natural thing for me was hike and fly. 442 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,640 I just did. I was at my happiest hiking a 443 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,200 new site, a new mountain and just flying off it. 444 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,280 And but I but that got a little old after a while because you 445 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,120 spend only so much time in the air. 446 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,480 And as I got hungry for more and more airtime, I switched to more 447 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,840 cross country flying. And then as I became slightly 448 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,680 better at that, I started doing competition flying. 449 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,520 And now, you know, my interest in competition flying is 450 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,600 actually waning a little bit. And I super passionate about my 451 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,760 new interest, which is acro, of which I know absolutely nothing. 452 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,240 And I'm going to start an acro progression this October in 453 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,120 Allotonies. So it's new, it's exciting, it's 454 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:27,680 different and it is energizing. Way to go. 455 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,600 Man, all right, watch out Acro boys, Subir is coming for you 456 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,400 with all his heart. And but I just want to backtrack 457 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,000 a tiny bit here to Malcolm Gladwell, if I'm not mistaken, 458 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,880 is the author who's who, who mentioned the 10,000 hour 459 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,920 theory. And he very clearly says that 460 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,920 10,000 hours are really effective if you are being 461 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,120 washed by a coach and your mistakes are being picked out so 462 00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:54,640 that you follow those 10,000 hours in a certain way, like you 463 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,600 don't go off track. So when you have been chasing 464 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,440 all this air time and you have been pushing your limits and 465 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,280 trying to become a better version of your, of yourself in 466 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,520 in the air, have you had a chance to be mentored or being 467 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,840 coached or being watched upon by someone? 468 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,800 And if yes, then if you can talk a little bit about that, that 469 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,200 that side of your journey 100%. I think Maxwell Gladwell. 470 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:21,040 You said yes, I think Malcolm Gladwell is, is right, Malcolm. 471 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,760 Gladwell is, is is spot on. He's 100% correct because 472 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,240 there's a saying in in golf, for example, that if you practice a 473 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,560 lot of the wrong thing, you become great at at the wrong 474 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,920 thing. And so it's absolutely true, and 475 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,600 I do have a number of mentors who have guided me from time to 476 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,080 time and who still do. There is one more thing though, 477 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,800 that nobody is going to be watching you all the time except 478 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,240 you yourself. You are watching your flying all 479 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:57,080 the time and you have to be your first and best critic. 480 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,360 Anytime anything happens that catches you that hey that wasn't 481 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:05,640 right and a slightly bad take off something your wing goes 482 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:10,080 side with in the air. You have to not just brush it 483 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,120 off saying yeah that's OK, let me just move on. 484 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:18,560 You have to 1st acknowledge that I made a mistake and secondly 485 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,360 try to figure out what that mistake was. 486 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,720 And suddenly your body of knowledge might not be enough to 487 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,280 understand that. And at that point, you go to 488 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,840 your friends, your advisors, your mentors or any pilot who is 489 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,960 further along in the progression than you are, and you review 490 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,120 your situation with them and ask them for perhaps what have 491 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,120 happened. If if you have video footage, 492 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,920 then that is very helpful. But even otherwise, just talking 493 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,360 through that incident is extremely important. 494 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,680 And I would go back to this flight log comment that I 495 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,840 mentioned earlier. One of the reasons your flight 496 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:58,920 log is so important is that when you fill your flight log entry 497 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,800 at the end of your flight or at the end of the day, you try to 498 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,440 at least identify some mistake that you made that you could 499 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,560 have done better or some other insight that you have from that 500 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,160 flight. Because if you don't learn 501 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:21,240 something new from every flight, then while that flight was fun 502 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,920 and joyful and for sure, and those are good enough reasons to 503 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,960 do that flight, from a pure progression perspective, that 504 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,400 flight was not helpful. And so I think the discipline of 505 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,480 maintaining a flight logs just allows you to reflect on your 506 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,880 flight and put something into words of what you're learning 507 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,200 was. And that I think is extremely 508 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,560 helpful. So you have to be your first and 509 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,760 best critic. I would say in a nutshell, just 510 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,840 be true to. Yourself and stay disciplined 511 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,720 and these are like two of the foolproof ways of progressing 512 00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,960 safely and on your terms I think yes and. 513 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,000 Again, I would say not to brush off something. 514 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,040 Let's say you pulled up your wing, the wing didn't come up 515 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,800 right and you're still forced a launch and and you got away with 516 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,040 it. The lesson from that shouldn't 517 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,480 be, that's all. OK, I got away with it, it's 518 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,320 fine. No, the outcome should not 519 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,480 determine whether there was a learning opportunity or not, 520 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,200 because you do the exact same thing another time. 521 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,320 Some other little variable will be bad enough that you might not 522 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:29,880 have the successful launch, for example. 523 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,720 And so we have to learn not from the outcome of incidents, but 524 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,000 from the fact that an incident happened, even if the outcome 525 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,360 was favourable, and try to understand what happened. 526 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,000 Why did it happen? Did I know something was going 527 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,400 wrong and I still made a poor choice? 528 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,040 In which case I need to whack myself on the wrist and not do 529 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,160 it again? Or do I not understand what 530 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,280 happened? In which case I need to go and 531 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,880 talk to another pilot to to understand what might have 532 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,400 happened. And so this is is key. 533 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,360 Got it, I think. That just makes it very simple 534 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,280 for our listeners to understand how to how to make sure that you 535 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,600 stay on the good side and the more fun side of the sport as 536 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,360 and when you wish, or take to the skies every more every now 537 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,360 and then. But while we're talking about 538 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,760 staying, staying safe and making it count every time, you said 539 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,520 you've done a ton of SIVS. Can you just brush us? 540 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,640 Can you just tell our listeners the role of safety training in 541 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,480 acrobatics and flying in general? 542 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,200 Because I've heard, I don't know if this is a perception or not, 543 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,680 but majority of good pilots who are, who we see on Instagram and 544 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,200 Facebook, they have an acro background. 545 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,920 And everybody keeps on saying, do SIVS do keep keep on doing 546 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,760 all of that. But money is a big thing in this 547 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,440 sport. And as a pilot, you practically 548 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,160 cannot afford to keep on going to SIV clinics. 549 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,880 It's you'll burn a hole in your pocket and you'll eventually 550 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,240 give up. So how do you navigate that side 551 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,360 of the sport where you are not being washed by everyone every, 552 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,000 in every collapse? You just have to take your 553 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,800 glider up on a lake and do those things yourself. 554 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,160 And of course, you're, you're, you want to stay. 555 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,560 You're going to be the safest pilot. 556 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,880 But yet safety training in acrobatics is an essential part 557 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,840 to the progression. So how, how did you navigate 558 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,400 this? And what, what advice would you 559 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,840 give to every other pilot who's trying to follow your footsteps? 560 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,400 Yeah, I. My assessment is that SIV is 561 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,360 intrinsic to save flying before an incident happens in the wild. 562 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:34,120 If you have done an SIV or few and have a better understanding 563 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,680 of handling more situations, you will just have better outcomes. 564 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:45,840 And I would advocate pilots were flying and have aspired aspired 565 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,920 to fly cross country to do an SAV more early in the 566 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:49,800 progression. I see. 567 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,640 But at the same time, I won't say this kind of 568 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,440 one-size-fits-all. There might be pilots who just 569 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,840 do with, you know, coastal soaring on a on a soaring site 570 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,640 with laminar winds and that's all they want to do and that's 571 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,520 fantastic. The other pilots who might just 572 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:11,800 want to occasionally fly their home site in gentle conditions, 573 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,280 morning evenings, just to enjoy some of your time. 574 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,640 They're busy with their lives. They have other priorities. 575 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,240 I think it's OK for those pilots to fly safely in known good 576 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,200 conditions to to manage that risk. 577 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:31,080 But any pilot who's common flying and is flying cross 578 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,400 country, you are essentially seeking turbulent air. 579 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,520 We are all naturally afraid of turbulence, but guess what a 580 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,040 thermal is A thermal by definition is turbulence. 581 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,680 And if we are actively seeking turbulence and putting our 582 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,640 glider into turbulent air, and this thing about adventure that 583 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,560 sometimes you go looking for adventure and you find it. 584 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,960 And occasionally you might find this really rough air and your 585 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,080 glider goes sideways. And when it does, you can 586 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,400 reliably recover a glider only from situations that you have 587 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,480 seen before. If your glider is in a 588 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,840 configuration that you've never seen before, your chances of 589 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,520 recovering from that are pretty low actually. 590 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,800 And your best bet is to throw your reserves. 591 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,480 And we can talk about that as a sub topic down the road. 592 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,320 But the point is, if you're flying in turbulent air, you 593 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,440 should have put your wing into different configurations and 594 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,840 recovered from them. And that's really what an SIV 595 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,120 is. And for a pilot flying thermal 596 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,080 or cross country I would say within the first probably 50 to 597 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,639 100 hours of flying I would recommend they they do in SIV. 598 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,400 And for pilots who've never done in SIV before. 599 00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:49,560 For most pilots there are exceptions, but for most pilots 600 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,360 the experience is going to be borderline terrifying. 601 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,320 For some it's just fun, but for most there is some degree of 602 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:03,040 panic involved and yourself not so much as reliable. 603 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,880 And you have the ability to calm yourself, assess and give the 604 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,840 proper input at the proper time and so on so forth. 605 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:13,440 And you just have to go through your first SIV to get a better 606 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,080 sense of that. And it's in your second SIV that 607 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,120 you really learn a lot, in my opinion. 608 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,400 And that was suddenly my experience. 609 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:22,600 But I've spoken to other pilots too. 610 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:27,400 And so I would basically advocate the first SIV in 50 or 611 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:33,120 100 hours and the second SIV as soon thereafter as possible, not 612 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,800 wait for the next year. And that's just the price of 613 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,920 admission in my opinion for thermal flying, gliders are 614 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,680 expensive gliders and full kids cost. 615 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:47,200 We know what they cost, but proper training is, I think 616 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:53,160 incredibly efficient in terms of our value and how confidently 617 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,560 you then fly those tools. And rather than investing in the 618 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,000 next. This topic never comes up in my 619 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,080 opinion here. For most pilots, they'll buy a 620 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,760 wing or two, then they want to at some point many pilots 621 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,080 progress to the next wing, but that next wing is going to be 622 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,440 very expensive. That SIV and other training or 623 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,720 let's say a cross country clinic is is less expensive than a new 624 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,840 wing and it will help you fly whatever wing you're flying 625 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:22,520 today in A or B or C Much, much better than spending the money 626 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,280 to buy your next level wing. Performance doesn't come from 627 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,360 the wing. Performance comes from the 628 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,480 expertise of the pilot, and the more you invest in your own 629 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,960 expertise, the better your performance will become that 630 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,760 makes total. Sense to me I, I think that 631 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,480 that's the easiest way to put it. 632 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,400 I think it reminds me of saying the more you bleed and and 633 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,280 practice the less you breed in war or something like that yeah. 634 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,880 So when it comes to navigating the risk versus reward and 635 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,840 glider handling and all of this I, I can I can share my 636 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,760 experience. I finally upgraded to A2 liner 637 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,800 and I love pushing the bar. I wouldn't say that it comes out 638 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,040 as intuitive, but it's it's something that I'm very 639 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,640 comfortable with. But then the moment I enter 640 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,880 turbulent air and controlling the wing with brakes is much 641 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,280 more reassuring than controlling the wing with bees. 642 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,920 Now the point is where do I draw a line that this at this level 643 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,160 of turbulence, so this level of movement, bees are no longer my 644 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,080 comfort zone. Because you can be mentally very 645 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,000 strong. You can be all motivated to go 646 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,640 out and push the limits. But then SIVS will answer a lot 647 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,200 of these questions. I completely agree, but there 648 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,280 are sometimes like we see best of the best pilots, even triple 649 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,600 C wings get collapses in in big goggles and unfortunately some 650 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,160 of them have to pay a pretty heavy price for it. 651 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,800 Of course, there's a level of uncertainty that we will never 652 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,120 be able to define because the sport is still developing, 653 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,600 there's not enough data and all the other reasons. 654 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,240 But how have you managed answering this question for 655 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:51,560 yourself That all right now I need to calm down. 656 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,200 This is going beyond my skill and comfort. 657 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,040 And this is where I, I reduce my reward because the risk is too 658 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,280 high. Yes. 659 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,320 There are a number of things in what you've said and they were 660 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,560 all very important. I'll just address your last 661 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,560 question first to give a concrete example. 662 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:13,240 Like I said, I invested in training SI VS and and I 663 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:15,480 progressed through all the wing classes. 664 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,960 One thing that I realized as I was progressing and also talking 665 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,480 to daily experienced pilots was I think the answer to the 666 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,720 question when is it right for a pilot to step up to the next 667 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:29,960 wing class? This is a very common question 668 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,280 and there are many considerations. 669 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,680 Again, we're talking about cross country flying here or or 670 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,800 competition flying, perhaps not echo or anything else. 671 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,160 So for cross country flying, the answer to that question 672 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:49,080 basically boils down to you can potentially step up to the next 673 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,400 wing clause if you are comfortable flying the full 674 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,240 speed range of your current glider. 675 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:02,120 It's as simple as that. And your full speed range is not 676 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,280 from trim, but from min sync all the way to full bar. 677 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,560 This is the speed range of your glider. 678 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,040 If you're not comfortable flying this your current glider in this 679 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:18,880 entire speed range, you will not benefit from stepping up to the 680 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,320 next wing class because it's not the wing that gives you 681 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,280 performance. Like I said, The thing is within 682 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,080 reason. Most gliders from pretty much a 683 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:37,680 lobby all the way to for sure AD or even a triple C at trim, they 684 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,760 all vary between 38 to 40 kilometers per hour. 685 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,280 They're all about the same speed. 686 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,360 The performance of the glider class comes from bar as we know, 687 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,480 and particularly from the polar curve and what happens to the 688 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,040 glider when you're pushing full bar. 689 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,840 If you're not going to be comfortable flying the glider on 690 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,560 full bar and also know the stall point and fly the glider at min 691 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,960 sync safely, you should focus on learning to fly your existing 692 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,600 glider better. That's the bottom line. 693 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:10,360 So for me personally, I was comfortable all the way to D. 694 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:15,560 I flew the Zeolite and then the Zeno and I was like totally 695 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,600 comfortable. I have about 700 hours on two 696 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,240 different Zenos and two different sizes. 697 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,160 And then when I stepped up to a triple C wing, I could see that 698 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:31,200 I'm immediately not confident. And I'm not confident in on full 699 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:35,000 bar in the same turbulent air that I was confident on my Zeno. 700 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,360 And I was like, this is not comfortable. 701 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,960 This is not safe and I don't want to be doing this. 702 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:48,120 And I asked one of my mentors this question, Hey, how do I 703 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,080 overcome this? How do? 704 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,800 Should I spend more hours flying my D glider or should I just 705 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,320 deal with it and become more comfortable flying the Enzo in 706 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,560 perhaps calmer conditions 1st and so on and so forth. 707 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,560 And he said neither. Neither will be helpful. 708 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,920 What will be helpful is accurate. 709 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,720 And that my friend, is one of the reasons why I'm starting 710 00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:14,800 acro, not because it particularly excites or 711 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,880 interests me that I want to be doing all these cool tricks, 712 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,680 which might well have end up being the case, I don't know as 713 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,280 yet, but because I want to become better at wing control. 714 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,520 And what Evan told me was it's not that. 715 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:30,640 And again, I don't know for sure, I have an open mind about 716 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,240 this, but he said it's not about the tricks themselves that how 717 00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:36,920 to do those tricks that make you better at wing control. 718 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,800 It's the process of learning acro. 719 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:44,760 You put your glider in all kinds of shape and situations and 720 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,880 learn to deal with them and to a certain extent anticipate that 721 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,160 they're about to open. And that is the training that 722 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:55,240 you need to fly a really hot glider comfortably that. 723 00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:57,880 That makes total sense. As you mentioned earlier that if 724 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,360 you have seen your wing in that configuration, the chances of 725 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,320 you recovering it are much more higher than you being caught up 726 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,360 by surprise and just being taken aback by by what's going on. 727 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,440 And I think that is one of the reasons why other people are 728 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,040 also good acro pilots, yeah. Absolutely. 729 00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,400 Andy, I did want to touch on one more topic that you had brought 730 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,400 up in this question, which was being comfortable on brakes 731 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,160 versus comfortable on the rear risers. 732 00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:25,960 Now 22 liners are are special beasts because they are very 733 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,880 direct. When you press more bar, your 734 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,840 angle of attack becomes lower, the glider speeds up and if you 735 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,680 hold that bar and you pull the risers without distorting the 736 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,880 shape of the wing, your angle of attack becomes greater and your 737 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,960 speed reduces. And so to a certain extent for a 738 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,440 trim. And after that you push half bar 739 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,040 and you pull the risers an equivalent amount, your glider 740 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,960 is exactly a trim in configuration and in in speed. 741 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,400 And so this direct handling is extremely useful and developing 742 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,080 a comfort for it is extremely handy because when you pull the 743 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,640 brakes, it's actually distorting the shape of the wing. 744 00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,440 It's stealing performance. The whole reason you're flying a 745 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,480 hot glider, A2 liner C and so on so forth is because you want 746 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,240 that performance. And it's the risers using the 747 00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:18,240 risers that give you control without sacrificing performance. 748 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,400 And it's just phenomenal. And you do get comfort with it 749 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,680 as as you keep using them more. Like I said, I have 700 hours on 750 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,760 the Zeno, another 150 hours on a Zeolite. 751 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:33,000 In all of that at this point I am actually it quite sound stage 752 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,760 more comfortable on the riser simply because I've spent so 753 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,880 much time on them than I'm even with the brakes. 754 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,640 It doesn't that. Makes sense, but for people who 755 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,520 have never flown A2 liner, pulling risers on a three liner 756 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,680 is a whole different world. Takes shit loads of energy. 757 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,560 The profile does not distort that much but do you ever get 758 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,000 tired for I've seen your flight logs you fly for hours and 759 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,800 hours. So 2 liner flying in rear riser 760 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,040 control. Does it tire you out more 761 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,920 muscularly? Not mentally it does. 762 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:06,640 It does. There is more pressure on at 763 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,280 least the two liners that I fly. Keep in mind that wings are 764 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,240 different. There are some 22 liners in 765 00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:19,000 particular where there is less pressure on the rear risers, but 766 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,360 still it's more than brakes typically. 767 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,920 Yeah, so it does get tiring, but. 768 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,640 But this brings us to another topic of of flying endurance. 769 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,880 Endurance flying I think is something that needs to be 770 00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,200 developed both mentally as well as physically. 771 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:41,160 And for a cross country pilot who wants to fly far, it's a 772 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,720 good area to invest in. And for the simple reason, and 773 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,160 again, I'm not saying that everybody should inspire, it 774 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,080 should aspire to to fly great long distances. 775 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,920 But if you do aspire, if you do want to do 100 kilometre flights 776 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,280 or 200 kilometre flights, for example, entirely your choice. 777 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,880 But if you want to do that, then you have to do certain things to 778 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,920 achieve those goals. And one of them is to be able to 779 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,760 fly long. The simple math is that typical 780 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,360 intermediate pilot flying AB or C ring will have an average 781 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,760 cross country speed of, on a decently good day, 20 to 25 782 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,360 kilometers per hour including tumbling and all of that. 783 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,680 And so if you go to fly 100K, you'll be flying for four or 784 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,560 five hours. It is, in my opinion, much 785 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:30,800 better for pilots at their local sites, even if they are not 786 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,320 conducive to flying long distances, but they work for 787 00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:38,560 long enough duration to launch and just fly for two hours. 788 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,800 If they fly for an hour or fly for three hours, four hours, 789 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,320 five hours doing essentially nothing but tumbling up, being 790 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,280 goes down. Or if you're lucky enough to 791 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,480 have at least a couple of features and a valley crossing 792 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,880 to just do the valley crossings back and forth, tumble up, 793 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,720 understand thermals. Just spend a great deal of time 794 00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:59,320 in the air because there's no substitute for airtime, just for 795 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,520 learning, but also to build endurance. 796 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:05,320 And so if you're super comfortable flying for four or 797 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,160 five hours when you launch, it can be mentally exhausting like 798 00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,320 you said, then when the day is there and you are at a site 799 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,680 where 100K is possible, you don't have to worry about the 800 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,800 flying for five hours, but you just have to worry about the 801 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,960 rain and the thermals. And so that just comes with, 802 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,480 with practice is as simple as that. 803 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:29,200 There's no better way to build arm strength, I think than just 804 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:30,640 by doing the activity that you like. 805 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,920 You could certainly go to the gym and and so on and so forth. 806 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,360 But but I mostly just fly indeed and you're. 807 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,360 Pretty good at it as well. So we these are golden pieces of 808 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,960 advice that you have given out to our community here and to all 809 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,440 the audiences. But before I move on to the last 810 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,440 part of the show. So we, there was one topic that 811 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,320 I feel we really need to address. 812 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,520 And this is a challenge that a lot of us feel but not a lot of 813 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,400 us talk about. We just shy away from it. 814 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,280 And maybe it is peer pressure, maybe it is personal or 815 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:03,240 whatever, like preference, but burnouts are real in every 816 00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:05,720 aspect of life. And I think paragliding is no 817 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:08,040 different when you chase something with all your heart 818 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,960 and soul and when you put in so much effort into it, if things 819 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,960 go your way, nothing like it. But if they don't, and if they 820 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,360 take a bit longer, there are there is a whole different 821 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,840 mental challenge that you have to deal with in in staying 822 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,400 motivated, convincing yourself that yes, it's all worth it and 823 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,480 and keeping on going. You have been at the helm of 824 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,720 things for long enough to to face all of these challenges, I 825 00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:34,400 believe, especially when you once you've flown that long, how 826 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,520 have you navigated this topic and if you have had a chance to 827 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,360 face anything or, or were you just simply too excited in life 828 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:42,880 to even let this come close to you? 829 00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,880 I think. The reality is, as as you said, 830 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,840 what has worked for me, because I get bored very easily, I can't 831 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:52,240 keep doing the same thing again and again. 832 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,840 So as long as things are different, I stay happy and I 833 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,920 stay motivated. And for me, there's just so much 834 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,320 variation is in paragliding that that that has not come to pass. 835 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,400 And again, granted the resources to to live the dream like you 836 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,080 said. But for example, every new site 837 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:17,440 is fresh and interesting for me. I like nothing better then going 838 00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,440 to a new site and have my first flight at that site, even if 839 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,040 it's a top to bottom. In fact, quite often it is a top 840 00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,200 to bottom because I'll go early in the morning and launch just 841 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,960 because I'm so excited and I just wanted to fly. 842 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,320 And almost always my first flight at a new site is a top to 843 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,280 bottom and then I go and have another time of flight later in 844 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,000 the day. But but that's what keeps it 845 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,520 interesting for me. And also like I mentioned, just 846 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,520 trying different things, like I couldn't be more excited about 847 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,400 trying acro now. It's a whole new area, it's a 848 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,480 whole new things. It's all related to paragliding, 849 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,480 but it's almost a little ecosystem and the community of 850 00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:00,640 it's own and which I want to engage with and as long as all 851 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,360 these varieties and variations are there. 852 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:05,800 And the other thing about this, Andy, to be honest, is the 853 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,800 community aspect of paragliding, just meeting new people, hearing 854 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,120 their stories, getting some ideas about where to go fly next 855 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,000 or something interesting from them that that gives me a lot of 856 00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,800 energy and it keeps me motivated now that that's so. 857 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,520 Nice to hear and just to reiterate, that is why Para 858 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,960 Landing Atlas exists to to share the stories and share the joy 859 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,920 with everybody across the globe, regardless of whether you're 860 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:34,160 travelling to a place or not. Just TuneIn to the show on 861 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,040 Spotify, click play and you will get all that you wish for on the 862 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,280 landing side or to take off or even in the air. 863 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,040 But that's so you to put it in that manner. 864 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,640 So we before we wrap up for the day, I usually ask this is a 865 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,240 tradition or it's just becoming more of a kind of a tradition. 866 00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:54,360 Now I ask my guests to to share 11 flight or one story from 867 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,720 their lives that that has stuck with them for a while. 868 00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,480 Could be a glorious one, could be a one filled with struggle. 869 00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:02,400 So if you have anything that comes to your mind that you 870 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,840 think is worth sharing with the audience, we'll be very thankful 871 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,640 to put it out. Boy, that's a tough one, Andy. 872 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,800 There have been so many Good flights with so many good 873 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,320 pilots, but one flight that does stand out for me. 874 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:20,200 It's certainly not the longest flight, but it was a flight with 875 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:24,760 a good friend of mine, Jesse Williams, and we flew 120 876 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:32,400 kilometers from essentially in, in Washington state, USA, from 877 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,760 one side of the Cascade Mountain range to the other over for over 878 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,800 three hours. On that flight. 879 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:43,640 We were on such committing terrain that there was basically 880 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:48,120 no decent landing option. We read the, we launched, we 881 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:52,200 flew for about half an hour, 45 minutes over a nice Ridge, a lot 882 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,440 of bailouts. There were just, there were like 883 00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:59,360 4 or 5 pilots that launched and then about 45 minutes into that 884 00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:03,880 flight there was Jesse and and me and others turned back and we 885 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,040 were on radio and we read the day and we both agreed on what 886 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,040 we are seeing. The day was tremendous. 887 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:16,000 We had lived to, you know, 1213 thousand feet and the mountains 888 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,480 were ahead of us. It's a big range of rock and 889 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,840 glacier and ice and deep valleys with nothing but a river flowing 890 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,400 through. The only potential bailout would 891 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,240 be some small river bank somewhere, but the rest was just 892 00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:36,720 trees, no meadows, nothing. And so we exchanged glances, so 893 00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:40,920 to speak, got onto the radio and said yes, we are doing it. 894 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,680 And we pushed. And for three hours we were over 895 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:51,240 this dramatic landscape and we were working together as a team. 896 00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:53,640 Sometimes Jesse would push ahead, find a thermalite, join 897 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,040 him. Sometimes I would push ahead. 898 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,200 We were just leapfrogging each other, just working together, 899 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:04,320 finding those claims. And it was just a we were in the 900 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,720 zone, so to speak. And but at the same time, the 901 00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:11,400 relief when we were out of the range on the other side and they 902 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,800 were wide open valleys with meadows ahead of us was just 903 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,960 tremendous. Yeah, that will live with me for 904 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,640 a long time. Wow. 905 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,440 Well, I think that is the epitome of navigating risk 906 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,000 versus reward with with sheer confidence, skill and 907 00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,520 responsibility and a teamwork. I believe. 908 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,960 I'm pretty sure it would have been different had you been 909 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,880 going there solo or probably with someone else or something 910 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:36,600 like that. Usually different. 911 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:41,080 I would, yeah, that anyone today would not attempt that flight, 912 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,400 that particular flight by myself. 913 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,640 And to your point, I have a lot of respect for Jesse. 914 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:52,160 Jesse is also a former Excel pilot and his knowledge of that 915 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,920 area, like you said, his preparedness and we had three 916 00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:01,120 kits and emergency BV gear and all that, but still the risk was 917 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:05,280 there and at the same time the shot was there and and we took 918 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,000 it. Wow man. 919 00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:11,160 Quite inspiring and Needless to say, something which all of us 920 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,280 wish we can do like those flights which give you the 921 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,520 excitement, but always end up with a with a happy face and a 922 00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:19,720 learning that you can safely walk away from. 923 00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,280 I think severe. On that note, we have come to 924 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,480 the end of this show so that we know you're into acro. 925 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,640 We know you're doing that to get on triple C's. 926 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,680 But if you have to tell us what's next on your horizon 927 00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:32,400 before before we get off of this trip. 928 00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,800 Yes, I do have a dream actually. So all this business about acro 929 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:42,000 and fine triple C gliders and flying competitions is for me 930 00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:46,680 like going to the gym so that I become better and I become 931 00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:48,720 stronger and I become more competent. 932 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:54,920 The real dream that I have is adventure flying and exploration 933 00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,480 and exploring mountain ranges across the world. 934 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:04,200 And the most concrete sort of vision of that dream I have is 935 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,160 that I'm too old to do the ex Alps for example. 936 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:08,720 I just don't have the speed on the ground. 937 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:13,720 But I would like to fly the classic ex Alps route from 938 00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:19,400 Salzburg to Morocco as one. An uninterrupted journey to just 939 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,120 have my backpack with my glider and clothes and whatever else I 940 00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,680 need for that trip started from one end and over a few weeks 941 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,840 flying just the good days, not taking an unnecessary risk. 942 00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:37,000 Just do that whole end to end journey as as one effort. 943 00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,600 So that is something concrete that I want to work towards over 944 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,080 the next 2-3 years and we'll go from there. 945 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,720 Amen to that man. I think I'm going to put your ex 946 00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:51,520 contest link in the show notes for people to stalk you there 947 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,400 get inspired to me, Needless to say and man you're the way you 948 00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,520 share things there way your knowledge is there. 949 00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,040 It's such massive thanks from all of us. 950 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,200 I've found a lighting Atlas and I'm pretty sure the community, 951 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:04,720 all the audience members also appreciate that. 952 00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,400 Needless to say, the moment you have more stories, we are more 953 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,040 than happy to bring you back on the show for Round 2. 954 00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,680 Thank you for that. Vote of confidence and thank you 955 00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,320 for for this time, Eddie. It's been a pleasure talking to 956 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,640 you. And if all our members of our 957 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:22,600 our flying fraternity, even if they just take away one thing 958 00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,480 that that they relate to or otherwise thing they would like 959 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:30,000 to work on, I think our time would be very well spent indeed. 960 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,560 Subir. May you continue to touch the 961 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,000 sky with glory as you have. Thank you. 962 00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:34,840 Bye.