1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,200 You know, there's something about human psyche that when we 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:13,040 hear the term new technologies, it just excites us. 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,120 I mean, there's a range of emotions that one goes through. 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,720 It sounds very thrilling to begin with. 5 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:25,040 There's a hope that there's more safety in the newer technology 6 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:27,880 that is coming in. And then you start thinking that 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,600 there has been a lot of R&D that has gone on behind the scene. 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,600 There have been prototypes which have been developed. 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,080 A lot of test flying has been done by the brand or whosoever's 10 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,080 coming out with that new technology in their own field. 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,680 And there's a very famous kind of saying which goes around in 12 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:48,280 paralleling world, that to be the best in paralleling you have 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,080 to fly the best equipment You know that is the very first 14 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,800 thing that you accomplish and then everything else follows it. 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,480 So this month's topic is all about exploring new technologies 16 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,720 in our sport of paragliding. You know, every now and then we 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,519 see some designer, someone having the will. 18 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,520 And the zeal and the. Fire inside them, challenging 19 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,440 the status quo and saying that, hey, we're going to do things 20 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,680 differently and we're going to add more fun to flying. 21 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,280 So I thought, like, who better than bringing in a person who 22 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,480 has basically revolutionized flying so far? 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,840 We are used to seeing paragliders move in horizontal 24 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,480 direction when they're floating through air, and the vertical 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,400 energy conversion is very limited. 26 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,120 But this brand and the people behind it taught outside the box 27 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:41,440 and have created a toy which allows us to expand our horizons 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,000 of flying paragliders even more so. 29 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,680 Merging the kiting and the paragliding concept has added a 30 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,200 lot of fun in soaring scenarios. For now, however, the beauty of 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,000 this tech is that it is just starting out and who knows, 32 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,920 maybe we are seeing something similar in permit scenarios. 33 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:02,320 Maybe we are going to see something coming out like that 34 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,480 in racing, paralyzers in World Cups and all of that. 35 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,840 But we'll leave all of that to the designers and I hope some of 36 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,800 them, the ones which are coming on board this month, will be 37 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:16,760 able to throw some light on what's coming up. 38 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,720 But to begin with, this is episode number one of the topic, 39 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:24,040 new technologies. And here is a very special man, 40 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,840 very passionate person about his craft. 41 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,160 Benny Holland, he's the owner of Speed Flying School has an 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,560 amazing way of teaching and imparting knowledge and has been 43 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,800 instrumental in bringing this technology to life and making it 44 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,920 accessible to everyday pilots like me and you. 45 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:44,520 So without further ado, let's dive right into this very 46 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:45,960 holistic conversation with Benny. 47 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,400 Super thankful that he finally came on board and took out time 48 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,160 from his busy schedule because I've been chasing him for quite 49 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,640 a while. But regardless, it was worth the 50 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:57,000 wait. The content is absolutely 51 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:07,510 amazing and I hope you like it. Benny Gallon, so nice to see you 52 00:03:07,510 --> 00:03:09,110 finally, man. Welcome to Foreign Lighting 53 00:03:09,110 --> 00:03:10,230 Atlas. Thank you for doing this. 54 00:03:10,590 --> 00:03:14,160 Thanks for inviting me. Yeah, no I mean you know your 55 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,560 content and every single thing that you put out on online is 56 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,040 pretty inspiring and it had been at the back of my mind as a host 57 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,440 of the show because this initially it was all about 58 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,480 information sharing. And I think the way you you guys 59 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,040 have new technologies coming out in the in the sport and the 60 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,600 amount of fun that is being had with those new technologies. 61 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,400 People want to know what what goes on behind the scene and and 62 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,840 how do you guys manage it. So I mean if if I have to begin, 63 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,760 you know on some mode speed flying school, like how did how 64 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,880 did this happen in your life and why did you, why did you start 65 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:49,800 like what's what's the motivation behind such an 66 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:53,200 amazing institute? I basically got into speed 67 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,360 flying when I was 20 years old and I became a paragliding 68 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,160 instructor when I was 22. And then I worked for a big 69 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:05,560 school here for many years. And then we separated and I 70 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,840 found my own school. And you know, there's just in 71 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,120 the state where I live here, burn. 72 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,160 There's like 18 paragliding schools. 73 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,160 So there's literally at least one school in every valley. 74 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,600 So you kind of, I felt like, hey, I want to do something 75 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,560 different. So that's kind of why I named my 76 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,440 paragliding school speed flying school, because we do also teach 77 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,800 paragliding, not just speed flying and speed riding. 78 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,840 And we also, we teach paragliding a bit in a different 79 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:37,200 way. We do three weeks courses. 80 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,080 We teach people in three weeks in a row in so-called intense 81 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,680 courses instead of where people just come and join them whenever 82 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,360 they want. And then usually they spread it 83 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,600 out over a year. So yeah we we try to do things 84 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,720 you know a little bit different than that's why I found like OK, 85 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,400 this this names be flying school. 86 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,360 It it suits also for my paragliding school. 87 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,480 No, for sure. And I think your your idea of 88 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,640 doing things differently seem to be working so well because I'm 89 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,480 I'm pretty sure the amount of passion you have behind the 90 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,280 project is is turning out some really safe and knowledgeable 91 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:14,160 pilots. But do you want to throw some 92 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,720 light on doing things differently, like especially 93 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,640 teaching three weeks intensive rather than just, you know, 94 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,200 going the other way around, like how everybody else plays? 95 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:27,680 Yeah, it's quite interesting. I think globally seeing the, the 96 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,040 standard way to learn paragliding is doing you know 97 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,920 like a a week course, a 10 day course or like a two weeks 98 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,000 course. But somehow here in Switzerland, 99 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,360 that's really not the standard. The standard here in Switzerland 100 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,040 is doing like four or five days like a basic course with the 101 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,720 equipment included. And then people sign up for the 102 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,040 license course which they have usually like a year time. 103 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,480 So a year to get their fifty flights that they need at least 104 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,480 to go for the exam here in Switzerland. 105 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,960 And then it it really spreads out and there's quite quite a 106 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,880 lot of people along the way that that stop because they don't fly 107 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,640 on a regular base. And if you don't fly on a 108 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,960 regular base, then you never really get the confidence you 109 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,840 shit, you know and and that subtle feeling we need in that 110 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:13,000 sport. You don't really get that. 111 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,920 And yeah, obviously when you do it three weeks in a row and you 112 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,720 really fully in there, you commit to it and you get a lot 113 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,160 better, a lot more confident and that subtle feeling, that 114 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,640 judgement for landings and things we all know. 115 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,320 You know how it is when you fly on a regular base? 116 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,240 When you go on a two weeks paragliding. 117 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,600 Holiday, it just feels better under the kind of opinion you're 118 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,040 just more confident. Exactly. 119 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,640 Yeah, exactly. You're much more connected to 120 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,680 the wing when you do it, you know on on a daily basis and 121 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,080 when you're not flying for a while and and you put yourself 122 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,280 back on the wing. And that's really the I think 123 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:51,120 the biggest advantage here on, on on course for the students 124 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,840 and for me as an instructor the big advantage is that I have the 125 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:57,040 same people every day. I do get to know them really 126 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:02,680 well and they all advance as a group because normally in in in 127 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,400 the system here we have in Switzerland it's it's a very 128 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,760 mixed level. The students have between three 129 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,560 flights and 100 flights. You know and then you as an 130 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:16,880 instructor you try to teach them all on the same day and the same 131 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:19,400 location you know and and some students they they want a 132 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,280 thermal and stay up two hours and the other ones would not 133 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,800 like to fly at all while there's thermic air and and turbulence 134 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:31,720 out there difficult to you know then to make everyone happy. 135 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,680 And and here at least the people have all more or less the same 136 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,200 experience. You know there's still people 137 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,600 that want to fly more thermals and some that want to fly less 138 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,400 thermals but at least they have very similar experiences and 139 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,360 that makes it much more easy for me to teach them and and to kind 140 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:52,600 of you know bring in like a continuation a a progress in 141 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,800 during the course. You know start with easy flights 142 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,960 with with you know big landings easy take offs and and then you 143 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,400 can progress during the course with the whole group because 144 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,080 otherwise there's always some beginners in the group where you 145 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,640 can't take to an advanced landing site or take off site 146 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,160 because it's early for them. They're not ready for it yet, 147 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,440 then. And here this is a lot less of a 148 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,480 problem. Makes total sense. 149 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,720 And I think safe preparation is the word that we we should be 150 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,680 mentioning here because there are many more, many other ways 151 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:22,880 to progress as well. But if you're shedding your 152 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,680 balance when progressing, then it's not a lot of fun. 153 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,240 So progressing safely and confidently. 154 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,559 But you know I mean you you seem to be pushing the limits quite a 155 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,120 lot with your with your flying yourself as a person. 156 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:41,280 Do you do you get students who kind of are inspired by your 157 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,280 lifestyle and kind of want to become like you know follow down 158 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,880 your lanes and and and do you have like in in like what I'm 159 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,360 trying to understand is the psychology of an instructor in 160 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,520 those cases. Do you do you try to hold back 161 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,600 or do you try to like you know give as much as you can even 162 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,480 though it's it's very early stages for them because I 163 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,320 certainly resonate when I when I was kind of learning this for I 164 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:06,480 wanted to go all guns blazing and the the and I did not have 165 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,880 enough trust in my first instructor whether he was giving 166 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,360 me the right amount of push and pull at the same time. 167 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,880 So also do you find those situations if any like 168 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,320 challenging to navigate or what's what's your way out of 169 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,920 those members? It's funny, I don't think I'm, 170 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,680 I'm pushing the sport really. It's just I'm just interested in 171 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:31,520 new things, you know and you know with new technology like a 172 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,200 flare system, now what if those parachites, there's new 173 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,600 possibilities popping up and I just like exploring what is 174 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,160 possible if using new things. I don't think I do very extreme 175 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,560 things, you know, I also fly them quite a lot. 176 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:47,800 They might look extreme for you or for for somebody watching it. 177 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:53,480 But understanding the technology and understanding my experience 178 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,600 with that new technology behind it, for me this is mostly 179 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,720 totally comfort zone. Like I try not to do things 180 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,360 where I'm scared of. But of course, for other people 181 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,640 this looks like this is crazy and they can't imagine this 182 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,480 because they're they don't know the technology and they don't 183 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,200 know what is possible with it and how much experience someone 184 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,520 has put into it. That's why it might look crazy 185 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:18,000 to me. You know, I tried to always be 186 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,400 in the comfort zone and that's also where I teach my students 187 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,560 like paragliding or also speed flying or speed riding. 188 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:26,400 It should all be done in the comfort zone. 189 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,360 You're up in the air and you there's always that risk of 190 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,400 falling down. You know, like it can be bigger 191 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:37,760 or smaller, but it is gravity and and you just can't cheat it. 192 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,560 Whatever goes up can go down. And you should never forget 193 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:44,240 about this and lose that respect. 194 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:49,560 I think that that's very important and I think sometimes 195 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:53,120 for for people coming from different sports, you know, like 196 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,600 climbing or bodybuilding or whatever, there are sports that 197 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,040 you have to push the limits. You know, if you're a sports 198 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:04,520 climber and you want to climb a or 9th grade one day, you have 199 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,680 to push the limits. You know you have to keep on 200 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:09,360 going even if you're scared, even if your hands can't hold on 201 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,840 anymore, you still have to push and and just go for it until you 202 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:15,560 just slip off and fall into that rope. 203 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,440 And if if you can't push there, then I think you have a very 204 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,840 slow progression. And I think it's super important 205 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,760 to understand in those air sports that this is not the 206 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,560 case. This might be beneficial when 207 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:32,240 you try to learn Akura Munu first for a while, that when 208 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,880 you're, you know, a bit of a bold pilot, you progress a 209 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,560 little quicker, but essentially you will get a bad experience 210 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,280 and it's going to throw you back a lot and you'll be way more 211 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,920 scared than ever before and maybe never even overcome that 212 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,040 bad experience anymore. That fear and you've actually 213 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,760 slowed yourself down a lot more then you've gained with with 214 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,440 pushing a little bit too hard. You know, and I I really try to 215 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,560 get that to students across. It's sometimes hard you know 216 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:04,160 because they see what all the things I'm doing and and then I 217 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,640 tell them not you know to push too hard at the same time. 218 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:10,280 But yeah, that's obviously I'm trying this. 219 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,960 Yeah. No, I I, I yeah dilemma. 220 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,560 But honestly, you know, the question pops in my mind that 221 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:20,440 you started when you were 20, 20 by no means is is an early start 222 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,640 in in a lot of conventional sports. 223 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,520 You know, because I I do come from a commercial sports 224 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,280 background. And over there they said that 225 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,120 you have to get into it at 7 or 9 or like you know, early 10. 226 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,640 Like like for example a soccer player if you want to be the 227 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,280 best in the world. Like by the time you're 1415, 228 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,720 you're already building up on your international career and 229 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,600 some even debut at those like 1617 ages. 230 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,200 Aerial sports is very different. But at least the glory that the 231 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,960 competing or dissatisfaction that humans are chasing, that 232 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,200 they're looking from competing is kind of same as it is in 233 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,040 conventional sports. You know, like you're you're 234 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,440 becoming better of other people and then there's a like there's 235 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,320 a reward for being better. How did how did you chose, I 236 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,840 mean even if you didn't like push the limits outside but like 237 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,160 what was your definition of pushing the limits within 238 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,280 comfort zone and how did you navigate that risk versus reward 239 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,920 spectrum while you were trying to get better version of 240 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,280 yourself every day, even though the age that you started was a 241 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,280 little bit later that a lot of pilots these days are starting 242 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,080 and I mean you you see pilots flying competition wings at the 243 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,600 age of 1819 and and and World Cups already. 244 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,600 Well, I first of all, I don't think I'm like that good of a 245 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,000 pilot as, as you might think. You know, I think there's like 246 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,360 so many better paragliding pilots out there than I am. 247 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,640 I've never done a single paragliding competition. 248 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,160 I meant speed flying as well, like the whole. 249 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,120 Ecosystem. Many speed fly pilots that can 250 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,440 do what I can do or or have even a better level and and speed 251 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,760 riding anyway because I'm not that good of a skier, you know, 252 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,720 I really don't think I'm like a exceptional pilot. 253 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,800 You know I think some of the things I'm doing is is is 254 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,640 actually pretty easy to achieve for somebody. 255 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:03,880 But what you know what sometimes people think I might be such a 256 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,680 good pilot. It's just because you know I'm 257 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,560 I'm kind of exploring that new technology and and you know 258 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:14,040 showing things that haven't been done before with that new 259 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:17,000 technology. But I don't think it's actually 260 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,880 that difficult you know and and you know I think with that new 261 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,440 technology there's going to be many people that can do things 262 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,640 like that you know, Yeah. So, so again it's for me it's 263 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,600 it's not as extreme. I think a lot of it is that new 264 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,280 technology that makes thing very easy. 265 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,600 But you know, if you don't realize that, you think, wow, 266 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,120 this is crazy. Yeah, all right. 267 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,400 Now I get it. Like Instagram versus reality is 268 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,480 is a different version and of course I I see you from a six 269 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,320 inch screen every day. So it's a it's a very different 270 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,760 than the procession I believe talking about new technologies 271 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,720 Benny Go for Global basically came in and kind of redefine 272 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:01,000 what having fun means and increase the spectrum. 273 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,520 What was the thought process behind like like how did how did 274 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,360 this project originate because I I saw young Baptiste you know 275 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,120 putting across a video and like pretty much going crazy and then 276 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,400 like when I when I look at the website on like golf Red Global 277 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,120 you have you have the other Benny Benny bully and Ireland 278 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,320 like he is one of the legendary I I think he's going to 279 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,320 accomplish very better pilot. So how did if you can just talk 280 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,280 about behind the scenes like how did how did you guys plan to to 281 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:29,440 come up with something like this. 282 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,920 I wasn't involved from the very beginning. 283 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,320 Skywalk has been working on this moustache wing way before I 284 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,520 joined them and they had a pretty much finished product. 285 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,360 They just never really dared to sell it. 286 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,480 Or they weren't like they were undecide, undecisive. 287 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,400 What's to market it for it? It was a closed sell wing, like 288 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,840 the kites. And yeah, somehow they never 289 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,600 threw this on the market and I started flying a lot with the 290 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,600 Ozone race kites on Dundee Pila and I remember exactly my first 291 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,280 flight with one of those kites and I realised they wow this, 292 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,760 this is this is awesome. This is a completely different 293 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:14,760 way of flying and it completely blow me away the the energy that 294 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,640 was in in the sky then the range it has and then I started 295 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,240 sorting around with this a lot there and and really started 296 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,360 pushing the limits there. Obviously always like super 297 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,640 loaded ground in. Yeah. 298 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,360 And then I started flying those kites in the mountains as well 299 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:35,160 and I just saw a huge potential and basically when you fly those 300 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,680 kites, you know there was I had a 7 meter 11 and a 17 and 301 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,840 basically the 11 meter kite did you know it collided like a 302 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:50,760 paraglider almost and it had the speed of like you know 6-7 meter 303 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,720 speed when it was just incredible machine like it, it 304 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,200 puts every other speed flyer I have ever flown. 305 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,840 It just makes it looks like a kids toy, basically. 306 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,599 So it's like it's like a it's like a speed wing on steroids, 307 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,200 but totally. Yeah, totally. 308 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,000 Like there there was such a huge step from from those speed wings 309 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:17,119 to this kite, you can't imagine. It's like going from an A wing 310 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,640 to probably like a, you know, competition hang glider kind of 311 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:21,920 thing. Wow. 312 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,119 Hidden performance. It's just unreal, you know? 313 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,920 And then I hear. That I mean just for the just 314 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,240 for the perspective of our listeners, you basically attach 315 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,440 the kite risers on on Karen winners and that those Karen 316 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,520 winners were attached to a primary in hardness and that was 317 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:39,760 your setup when you were having fun. 318 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:41,440 Exactly. Yeah. 319 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,440 Wow. Do they have those kind of 320 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,760 riders? Like is it possible to fit in in 321 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,320 a paralytic hardness? Like can you put a board 322 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,440 hardness and and like a kite and and kind of make it work. 323 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,360 Yeah, yeah, it actually works. Pretty simple. 324 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,880 Amazingly simple. It works, yeah, yeah. 325 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,640 But it's still a kite, you know? And if this thing does collapse, 326 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,720 they might not reopen, you know? So as long as you don't fly, you 327 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,040 know higher than you want to fall. 328 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:08,640 I guess this is a good thing to do. 329 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,640 But once you start flying a little bit higher, this is 330 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,280 definitely not safe. So basically you got a really 331 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,400 fun overboard. Like, I mean, you were at the 332 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,960 Hind, which was what was skimming the ground and you were 333 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,360 going super fast and yeah. Exactly. 334 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:23,760 Yeah. Yeah. 335 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,080 But I didn't give you the report. 336 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,880 That was just, you know, I was I. 337 00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:30,240 Was giving an example like like so you were basically skimming 338 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,040 the height hole but it was not the best example. 339 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:35,280 But that sounds so much fun like proximity to the ground, because 340 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,000 then you can just feel the speed and sense the speed a lot more 341 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,040 than normal normal link or. Normal flying. 342 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,080 Exactly. Yeah. 343 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,280 Yeah, that's totally how it was. Yeah. 344 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,080 And then basically, I hear that Skywalk had this project, they 345 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,200 called it Sky Carver. And I was like, hey guys, if 346 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,240 there's any way I can help you with that, Like I'm, I'm totally 347 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,960 in. Like I I think this is the 348 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,760 future of soaring. And I showed them, you know, 349 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,360 what I've done with the kites and videos and I showed them as 350 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,280 well. Like this is, I think, soaring 351 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:06,360 and speed flying. This is this is the future. 352 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,280 Yeah. And then you know Benny Belli, 353 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,160 he came over one day with his old prototypes and we flew them 354 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,720 here and started that project again. 355 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,600 And Benny basically then, you know, two years later finished 356 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,080 the project more or less on his holidays and came out of this 357 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,640 moustache. Yeah, yeah, it's we're super 358 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,760 happy with it, with the product and also with the way it's it's 359 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,720 working with how people are using it. 360 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:43,360 For me it's I see it like a perfect wing that enables people 361 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:48,200 to fly on the coast in stronger wings that have not been flying 362 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,920 in in that strong winds before. You know I I can also take a 363 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,000 speed wing or I can take a mini wing or I can fly A2 liner you 364 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,960 know and sore even 50 KS of winds. 365 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,320 I I have the skills to do so but for as I say for the regular 366 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,920 pilot he he he's not going to want to fly a enso in 50 KS of 367 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,920 winds you know. But he can safely and like, 368 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,840 relax, do this on a moustache without having to be a 369 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,040 superhero. And this is, this is fairly easy 370 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,320 on a moustache. So it it really makes this 371 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,640 strong wind flying accessible for a big range of pilots. 372 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,280 You know, it's obviously, you know, it can go fast and you 373 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,960 have to be able to deal with the speed, but it makes coastal 374 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,920 soaring so much easier. And I think that's why there's 375 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:39,360 so many stoked pilots, you know, flying a moustache and obviously 376 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:44,760 as well because you have the ability to to dive and to 377 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:49,240 convert your speed back into lift and and that high stability 378 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:50,960 and you don't have to worry about collapses. 379 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,440 So yeah, in a way it's it's more fun because you you have that 380 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,960 extra dive you can you can choose how high you want to fly. 381 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:04,440 It's not the wing or the wind that decides on which height on 382 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:05,840 the Ridge you're actually soaring. 383 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:10,240 It's it's you by holding the toggles higher or lower and 384 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,880 making more or less lift and and that that's really cool, you 385 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,920 know because then you when you fly close to the ground you get 386 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,800 that sensation of speed and you're not just stuck up there 387 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,600 and and thinking like OK how do I get down what what can I do. 388 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,680 And that that accessibility that it's it's really easy to fly a 389 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,440 moustache in on the right spot. I think you know it. 390 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,160 It can't be difficult obviously, top landing it again on on small 391 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,440 spots and things it it, you know, you need certain skills. 392 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:45,040 But in general people are surprised how easy this is to 393 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,720 fly, you know? And yeah, now I think we've made 394 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,280 the same step with the line, the flare line. 395 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,360 It basically makes flying close to the ground, whether this is 396 00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,080 snow or sorry grass and we fly after grass. 397 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,960 It just makes it safer because you can climb a lot more. 398 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,920 You can increase your glide ratio a lot more than you can do 399 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,320 on a classic speed wing. So if you're flying close to the 400 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,560 ground and there's something ahead of you, there's sinking 401 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,080 air or whatever, and this you need lift. 402 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,680 You can get a lot more lift from that wing, basically. 403 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,000 And to stay along the ground you have to do less turns. 404 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,120 You can, you know, if you have a good slope, you can just go 405 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:31,160 straight down the slope without having to do any turns to follow 406 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,120 it just by going hands up and and down. 407 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,840 So this is like it's can be literally really, really easy, 408 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:41,000 Yeah. No, I love it and I think it 409 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,720 sounds like unlimited fun basically whenever you have 410 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,200 these wings and over your head with the amount of possibilities 411 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,520 that you said, you know, within their spectrum. 412 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,160 But I'm I'm curious, Benny, like when you explain it that well 413 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,520 what is the most boring flying that mustache or lion can offer? 414 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,320 Like where do you where do you start? 415 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,960 Like if if you're a paralytic pilot and and you don't know 416 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,120 what speed wings are and you don't know what mini wings are 417 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,800 but somehow you see the the content and and the technology 418 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,120 and and all of this amazing things out there and you're keen 419 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:14,640 to get your hands on one of the mustaches and lions. 420 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,360 First of all is it doesn't make sense to to grab even the bigger 421 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:23,840 sizes of one of these and and secondly, what do baby steps 422 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,840 under these wings look like for someone who's coming off from 423 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,400 from just paragliding background and not smaller wings? 424 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,480 Yeah, I think it's it's super important to realize that a line 425 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,960 is made for speed flying and a moustache is made for soaring. 426 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,720 So if you're a paraglider pilot and you take a moustache on a, 427 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,400 you know, normal paragliding take off with, you know, no 428 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,320 soaring possibilities, you can totally take it off there. 429 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,720 Even if there's no wind, you can land it, you know, if there's a 430 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,800 big landing, it's fairly easy. I think if you know how to 431 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,640 inflate it, how to launch it, you know, people get along 432 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:06,400 pretty quickly. But you you can't really get the 433 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,560 sense of what this actually can do, you know? 434 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,520 So if you really want to try a moustache, I think you almost 435 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,040 need to sort it to realize what this thing is capable of doing. 436 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:23,120 Like I usually tell people, the moment you realize what the 437 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:27,920 moustache is actually capable of is when you stand on a dune and 438 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,960 there's like 50 KS of wind blowing in your face and you 439 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,040 stand there with a 15 or 18 meter wind without leaning 440 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,760 forward, you just stand there and you think could be more 441 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,880 wind, you know? And you exactly. 442 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,040 There's almost sand blowing into your eyes and and you know this 443 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:48,120 is fucking stormy and and you know, exactly like I would not 444 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,320 stand here with any other wing, not even with a mini wing but 445 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:52,640 it's totally easy for a moustache. 446 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,120 I think that that's like the moment where you realize what is 447 00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,920 wing actually, how much this is a game changer you know. 448 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,840 So yeah basically it makes sense to take a touring to really 449 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,800 really understand the possibility of these things. 450 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:12,040 But it's it's super easy just to take a 20m, a 22 meter moustache 451 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,960 or even an 18 to a normal take off with a little bit of a 452 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,000 headwind and you have a bit of a valley breeze at the landing. 453 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,280 I think it's really not a big deal. 454 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,280 You know there's there's a lot of pilots that can, that can do 455 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,760 this, you know, and they'll they'll figure out how to fly 456 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,400 these things fairly quickly. You know, I would say, I think 457 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,000 the most important thing is that you try not to land on a small 458 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,320 landing. Same thing with a line. 459 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,240 They're kind of hard to, let's say, to to make a spot landing 460 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:40,880 at the beginning. You know, usually at the 461 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,840 beginning people end up a little bit, come a little bit short or 462 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,120 go a little bit far. Yeah, you kind of have to get 463 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:51,240 used that a little bit. It usually usually flares 464 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,440 further than they think, you know, And then people come back 465 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,520 and they're like this thing flares forever. 466 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,360 And I'm like it's what I call flare. 467 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,400 I think the way you guys are going is looping in skydiving it 468 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,240 seems soon going to be out of fashion because paraglider seem 469 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,120 to be having a lot of fun with these technologies and for a lot 470 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:11,680 less money basically. I think so too. 471 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,680 Yeah, that's that's amazing. But you know, I mean I was 472 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,440 wondering from paraglider's perspective when we try and 473 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,520 learn a few things in paragliding after kind of 474 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,080 graduating from the school like after having the basic knowledge 475 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,920 of an instructor now I I personally felt that it was it 476 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,840 was very difficult for anyone to say that OK I'm, I'm going to 477 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,120 I'm going to put in this much of money every year and save it up 478 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:37,200 and and spend it on Sivs because OK, you can pay for someone 479 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,160 instructors up to a certain point where after that you have 480 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,520 to learn and figure out figure it out yourself because it's not 481 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,040 financially sustainable to hire an instructor every time you go 482 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,160 out there and push the limits. So I naturally tried to you 483 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,200 know, start looking at videos and start looking for 484 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,080 information that was that was online and start started reading 485 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:56,960 you know posts and people's experiences. 486 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,400 And eventually I was like OK if I if I find a trustworthy 487 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,960 instructor sharing his knowledge on on YouTube on how to recover 488 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,440 asymmetric or how to recover spiral lab or any of these 489 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,000 assembly maneuvers. I can try and gain something out 490 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,920 of it. And I can apply it safely in my 491 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,400 own in in in my own training because I have been under the 492 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,200 training of an instructor who has shown me how to do it 493 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,280 correctly once. Can something similar be applied 494 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,440 in these new technologies where you have website, where you have 495 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,680 YouTube videos, where they're teaching you skills? 496 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,240 And even though it's a brand new technology, even though you 497 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,480 might not have had a chance for an instructor who is 498 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,720 specifically trained to impart training online or flare, 499 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,720 because most of the instructors just know how to teach 500 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,120 paragliding, know there are not a lot of instructors who know 501 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,720 how to teach moustache flying or or line flying. 502 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,440 So can can people look at YouTube videos and try and, you 503 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,160 know, learn something from it while staying safe? 504 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,960 Like is it a good idea? Or should should everybody just 505 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,920 try and reach out to one of the schools who are teaching this 506 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,560 and then only put their trust over there? 507 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,680 I think it's never wrong going with an instructor, but as you 508 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,960 said, there's not that many instructors out there that 509 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:13,880 already have experience with with parakites that can actually 510 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,840 teach people you know like more that you know. 511 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,760 You can find on our, for example, flair tutorial videos. 512 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:28,440 Anyway, I think you know someone that has a decent amount of 513 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,760 experience in paragliding, he's going to figure it out really 514 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,880 quickly by himself. Someone that is pretty new that 515 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,200 has basically just got his paragliding license. 516 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,960 He can go on on a moustache or even on a line pretty quickly as 517 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,360 well, but he needs to be smart about it. 518 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,200 So both wings, they, they have quite a lot of roll. 519 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,440 So I think you have to be able to deal with the roll that that 520 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,600 you don't start rolling around, you know, uncontrolled and you 521 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,360 have to be able to deal with the speed or you have to, you know, 522 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,040 be able to learn with it. So you have to fly big enough 523 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:12,240 size first you know and not go on a too small size too quick I 524 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,960 think for both wings. It's it's great to start with 525 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,120 ground handling obviously run around on a field and and you 526 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,640 know get to know the stall point get to know where the you know 527 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,360 the the the maximum lift is and everything. 528 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,360 And if you've done that you're going to be already very 529 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,120 confident on launch and and landing is also going to be less 530 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:37,320 of a problem and yeah especially soaring A moustache I think you 531 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,040 can really if you have a good spot like sandy spots on dunes 532 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,680 you can really learn that yourself easily. 533 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,360 You know that's why we have made those tutorial videos you know 534 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,800 on YouTube with flair to to give people pilots the the knowledge 535 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,600 they need to have to fly these things. 536 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:03,440 But it's funny because the other brands don't do this for their 537 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,240 standard paraglidis. It it, you get the impression 538 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,080 that these things are super extreme, like a moustache is 539 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,520 such an extreme wing and you need a special education and 540 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:13,920 everything to be able to fly one. 541 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,720 It's not at all like this. It's just because the moustache 542 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:22,240 was the first parakite out there and there's some things you 543 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,440 know, there's some bad habits that that you know, that can 544 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,360 fuck you up on on launch if if you're doing this. 545 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,240 And that's why we we made those videos, you know. 546 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,040 But once it's very few things and and I think for for many 547 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,960 pilots it's pretty straightforward. 548 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,480 I'm I'm always surprised how quickly people get along with 549 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,760 this. I have a lot of people on a 550 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,760 moustache and and already on a line and I'm I'm always 551 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,080 surprised how quickly people figure this out. 552 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,320 Yeah. No, that that's good to hear 553 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,040 that it's it's OK. It looks something really fun. 554 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,800 So you you obviously, you know, figure out that if if it's a lot 555 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,080 of fun that that means it's a lot of work to get to that a lot 556 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,440 of fun part. But if you're saying it's 557 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,640 quicker than I think, like me including a lot of listeners 558 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,560 will be still to give it a shot one day. 559 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,080 Yeah, exactly. I think the most important thing 560 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,200 is in general is trying and forgiving terrain. 561 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,640 So if you want to go on a line, if you have skis and you have a 562 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,320 easy take off easy terrain, go do it on skis. 563 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,440 If you want to try a moustache, go somewhere there is not a 564 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,040 Cliff where you have the top land and for soaring you know, 565 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,160 go somewhere with a beach. Easy launch, you can land the 566 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,680 beach and maybe even sand dunes and in this environment you can 567 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,000 you can really progress a lot and and even make some mistakes 568 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,640 and it's quite forgiving. I think that's kind of the most 569 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,000 important thing. If you want to go and try. 570 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,160 Teach this yourself without an instructor, that you have a 571 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,880 forgiving landscape around you. Now it makes sense that the 572 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,200 safety net should be as wide and as broad as possible before. 573 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,480 Yeah, yeah. Very takes me to a point. 574 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,080 You know if if there is someone out there listening like you 575 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,760 know, I have had that mindset some myself some of the times 576 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,360 where I'm like this seems to be within my comfort zone and I 577 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,040 would like to push the limits a bit more. 578 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,280 We we all have that I think inherent like you know part of 579 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,160 our brain telling us that you you are capable of doing this 580 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,720 and even though it looks a little bit scarier but you want 581 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,480 to. So I'm just wondering if there 582 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,680 is someone who does not come from Coast who lives in the 583 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:32,280 foothills and is living in a thermic site still decides to 584 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,520 take this off on a on a on a thermic like site. 585 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,920 What is the worst that that can happen? 586 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,320 Like how does how does shitting your pants under a moustache 587 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,480 look like? Because under a parentheter it's 588 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,000 just like there are collapses and can cascade and there can be 589 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,920 twists and then you know it's history, then you deploy the 590 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,880 reserve. But like what can happen in in a 591 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,240 Fahrenheit if you if you put it in thermic conditions in the 592 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,440 mountain? I don't exactly know. 593 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:06,440 I've never had a collapse. But I tell people, just be smart 594 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,840 about it. You can totally fly them through 595 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,680 thermals. We just marketed the moustache 596 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:17,040 to not fly in thermals because it's so easy to fly this wing in 597 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,240 strong wind and strong wind. You know that with with 50 KS of 598 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:27,120 wind the the wind has four times the energy than 25 KS of wind 599 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,960 where you're normally flying. So the turbulence if you hit a 600 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,760 least side in 50 KS is also four times as bad. 601 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,360 And then if you have 50 KS of wind then you have strong 602 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,760 thermals in there on top and people fly hands up. 603 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:45,000 Also the moustache is going to collapse at some stage, and we 604 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,720 we knew the moustache is pretty collapse table, it's more 605 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,840 collapse stable than than any other paraglider out there 606 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,440 flying on full bar. But The thing is on a paraglider 607 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,480 there is this psychological hurdle. 608 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,280 Like anyone knows that has a bit of experience. 609 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:07,040 If I push that speed bar, I'm faster, but I'm more likely to 610 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,040 get a collapse, and if I do get a collapse, more likely to lose 611 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,480 control at least. Anyone that has done an SIV and 612 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,679 pulled some, you know, speed bar, asymmetrics has that 613 00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:19,960 respect built in from then on definitely. 614 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,040 Yeah, but that that that hits you, Yeah. 615 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,760 Exactly. You feel it and you get that 616 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,080 respect, you know, that's a good thing about doing an SIV. 617 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:31,840 So there's that psychological barrier of pushing that speed 618 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,400 bar. And with a parakite, with those 619 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,520 risers, this is completely gone. It's super easy to go hands up 620 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,440 and people go hands up all the time. 621 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,800 There's zero psychological barrier of going full speed. 622 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,360 And we were aware of this. And that's why, you know, we 623 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,840 tried to keep people safe and warn people like, hey, this 624 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,880 thing is super stable, even full bar, which is only hands up, you 625 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,840 don't have to push anything, but it can still collapse, you know. 626 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,640 And that's why we've marketed like don't fly in thermals and 627 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,240 blah blah, blah. But in fact, it works as well as 628 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:11,800 on a paraglider or actually even better because it's more stable. 629 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:18,080 But we didn't want for people fly brainless in 50-60 KS of 630 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,240 wind with strong thermic in there because we knew they were 631 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,280 going to go hands up without thinking about it. 632 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,440 And that's the whole reason behind it. 633 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,880 So when people want to fly through thermals, I just tell 634 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,840 them go for it, do it, but fly in best glide, which is quite 635 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,400 low on your hands. That's the normal trim position 636 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,040 on the paraglider. Don't fly hands up and then your 637 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,000 wing is maybe not more stable, probably it is more stable. 638 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,800 But if you do get a collapse, you're not flying fully 639 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,080 accelerated, so you get a collapse. 640 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,800 When flying slow, the collapse is going to be a lot more gentle 641 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,280 and you can react to it better I guess. 642 00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,640 So basically that's what I recommend. 643 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,920 People just fly through thermal slowly and fly active and then 644 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,720 there's no worries about it. What's what's the collab 645 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,200 behaviour difference between a moustache and a regular fire 646 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,440 layer like? I mean, how would ASIV look 647 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,720 under a moustache compared to a regular fire layer? 648 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,400 That's a good question. You you can't pull collapses on 649 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,360 a moustache. You can. 650 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,160 You can do pull ups on the A lines even. 651 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,240 With even with the collapse lines like we do on Yeah, you. 652 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,760 Can have those lines. It would works, yes. 653 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,960 It is actually pretty gentle. The reaction from the moustache 654 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,240 to collapses because the wing is quite soft. 655 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:36,760 It's not tensioned a lot, it's it's built in a very forgiving 656 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,760 way, surprisingly forgiving. I would say it's not any worse 657 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,640 than a sea glider, but it's just a rough guess. 658 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,880 But when you when you take a collapse and you go hands up, 659 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,840 then the glider is accelerated. And a glider that is fully 660 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,920 accelerated, it doesn't have a lot of pressure inside so it 661 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,360 takes a long time to inflate to reinflate. 662 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,840 You can. You can very well notice this 663 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,440 when you do big ears and you have the speed bar pushed and 664 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,240 then you let go the A line. Then on a lot of Gladys the Ace, 665 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,680 the ears just stay in. They don't, they don't inflate 666 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,280 until you release the speed bar. So it's a little bit the same 667 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,080 thing if a moustache. If you get a big collapse and 668 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,520 you're just saying hands up, it takes a very very long, quite a 669 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,120 long time to fully inflate the gun all the way into the tips. 670 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,240 It works much quicker if you actually counter steer and pump 671 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:33,760 it open. If you give it a pump to 672 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,320 collapse side then it re inflates very quickly. 673 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,960 I think that's like the main difference you know. 674 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,680 A fair comparison would be taking a normal paraglider to an 675 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:49,000 SIV and make a full speed bar collapse and stay on speed bar 676 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,400 and stay hands up. Wow, man. 677 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,680 That's a recipe for disaster. Yeah, exactly. 678 00:37:54,800 --> 00:38:00,160 That's scary. And on a musta it this is even 679 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:06,360 surprisingly gentle, like so. This is just a guess, but I 680 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,320 think the moustache it it would actually be more gentle than 681 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,960 than some other sea wings in in that case, you know, But we 682 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,680 don't have a lot of experiences with collapses because they 683 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:18,600 don't happen much. That's. 684 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,360 That's that's such a good way to put it in. 685 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,520 But I'm just wondering like you know when you're developing a 686 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,080 wing like this. I mean of course there there, 687 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,360 there must have been some history that that would have 688 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,280 gone into the into the project before it was restarted again. 689 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,240 But what what effort does the manufacturer or like the the 690 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:41,240 production team put when it comes to trying and feeling what 691 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:43,760 life under it looks like when it is not so good. 692 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,680 Like do you guys take it out and and just keep on collapsing it 693 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,240 again and again and keep on like how does testing look like? 694 00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:54,640 What what are your protos kind of do when you were like what 695 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,840 were the possibilities at that time if you can just talk about 696 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,840 that? That's an interesting question. 697 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,360 In fact, I think the paragliding brands, they do this a lot 698 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,640 because they have to pass that certification. 699 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:10,400 So for the normal paragliding test pilots, it's very important 700 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,880 that their wing has this exactly same behavior recovery. 701 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,520 Behavior I. Think recovery behavior that it 702 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,200 can pass that certification and they put a lot of effort to 703 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:22,160 reach this. We we didn't do that effort. 704 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:27,000 We put a lot of effort into or especially Benny like he's the 705 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,000 genius behind it. You know like I'm just I'm 706 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,920 telling him like no it's got to go faster or got to do this 707 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,360 better whatever. But he's the genius behind it. 708 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,680 I don't understand 10% of what he does and understands, you 709 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,880 know? But basically we just focus on 710 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,720 making these things stable enough that collapses do not 711 00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:51,360 happen in those conditions it's made for. 712 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,080 I think when you're soaring or when you're speed flying close 713 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,360 to the ground, it doesn't matter too much. 714 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,840 If you get a full speed bar collapse and your wing turns 715 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:06,520 130° or 150°, you're gonna hit the ground anyway. 716 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,040 You know what I mean? It's much more important that 717 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,240 your wing does not collapse while you're flying close to the 718 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:15,560 ground. So. 719 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,360 That I think is much more important case also when it 720 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,240 comes to to speed flying wings. You know, and I think it's the 721 00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:26,480 same with with you say paramotor wings. 722 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,120 You know paramotor wings are also the the the full reflex. 723 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:30,960 Glide. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 724 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,920 They just keep on going, yeah. Exactly. 725 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,000 They're for those, it's important not to have a gentle 726 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,480 collapse behavior. It's important to not collapse 727 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,280 at all. That's kind of a very different 728 00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,200 mentality in a way. In paragliding, everyone is 729 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,160 worried about how it does collapse, but I actually rather 730 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,960 have a wing that does not collapse at all in the first 731 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,160 hand. And you know, the second. 732 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,440 My second worry is how the reaction is going to be. 733 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,920 But I'm actually happier flying a wing that does not collapse, 734 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,480 you know what I mean? It's it's a very different 735 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,840 mentality in a way. I think yeah, I find it very 736 00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,560 easy to resonate with because when I talk to non Flyers, you 737 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,720 know when I talk to my friends who don't fly, they're like 2. 738 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,800 That's stupid. Like why are you doing this? 739 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:18,200 You know why are you going out in the air. 740 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,240 And the the answer that you gave me in the beginning when I was 741 00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:24,360 stoked that you know the amount of effort and the the way you 742 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,680 fly is like it seems very exciting like the risk was his 743 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:29,040 reward seems to be a lot more higher. 744 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,920 So I get that question from my non flying friends and I'm like 745 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,400 the the the obvious like you know, school of thought is that 746 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,560 I want to be under a wing or I'm flying in equipment that does 747 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,240 not fail. Like I trust in the failure 748 00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:46,680 should not happen. That is the first rule of the 749 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,040 game. That is why I played the game. 750 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,920 And I think that is what you're saying that the first rule of 751 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,400 this game is that the collapse does not come and that is why we 752 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,840 are playing it because that rule is usually it holds true. 753 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:01,880 So when we're trying to build collapse resistant, you know 754 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,200 when we're like putting most of our eggs in Rule #1, in Rule 755 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,960 number one's basket, you know, because that is like, it has to 756 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,960 be collapse resistant, then we can have more fun. 757 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,000 Why can't we get inspiration from those kites that have? 758 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,840 Like like is collapse a safety behavior? 759 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,240 Like, why can't we make rings that just don't collapse? 760 00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:23,640 Like, what's stopping them, adventurers? 761 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:26,800 I think you have to ask the designers. 762 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,640 I'm not a designer, I'm not the genius, but I think it has a 763 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,920 little bit to do with it with that certification for the 764 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,680 paraglidis as as I said, the certification is about making a 765 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:42,400 chance to collapse behavior which which in a way stops 766 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,880 manufacturers maybe sometimes of building a wing that is very 767 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,760 collapse resistant. You can make a wing more more 768 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,520 collapse resistant for example by having the A lines for the 769 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:59,240 back, but if you have the A lines for the back you cannot. 770 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,080 It gets very hard to certify the wings because collapses tend to 771 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,760 be bigger and deeper and then also it doesn't work as good for 772 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,520 for SIVS. Yeah. 773 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:14,560 So, but I think you know that technology with those reflex 774 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:19,520 airfoils that is, is rather new that is, I mean there's many 775 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,200 paragliders out there that actually have reflex built in 776 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,760 and people just don't know. So the moustache is not like 777 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,000 this this crazy new wing that has a technology that no other 778 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,040 wing had. There's there's quite many 779 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,520 gliders out there but have a Reflex airfoil in there. 780 00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,240 The mustache is just the first wing that has combined this with 781 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:45,400 those kite risers you know of those flare system and but my my 782 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,680 opinion or or you know my experience is that there's quite 783 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,720 a lot of wings that don't have Reflex and and I think that 784 00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:58,000 reflex technology is still kind of a little bit in in the early 785 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,240 stages. You know, I think brands have 786 00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:06,120 been very focused on making paragliders that have a lot of 787 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,920 performance climb well and that glide really well. 788 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,840 Like that you raised basically. Yeah. 789 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,160 But for any class, you know, like even even B Wings, you 790 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,440 know, have to have a very good performance. 791 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,160 But I think in the future that performance can no longer be 792 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,400 improved that much because you you reach a plateau. 793 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,960 You know, I think there's there's only so much glide you 794 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,800 can get with a wing that has aspect ratio 5 and 40 cells. 795 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,320 So I hope that in the future the brands will start making wings 796 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,920 that are more collapse stable that are safer and and focus 797 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,080 less on the performance. I think that's that's what our 798 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,280 market needs and and I think there's quite big potential. 799 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,600 But this is just a rough guess, you know, like I could be 800 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:58,120 totally wrong, maybe there there won't get much more collapse 801 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,120 stable. But I think there is quite, 802 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:05,400 quite some room for improvement for for making any of those 803 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,880 gliders quite a bit more collapse stable than they are 804 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,160 now. But I think it might take time. 805 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,560 But I have to ask you something. Very honestly Benny here because 806 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,360 this this question has run, has been raining in my mind ever 807 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,440 since I graduated from the school. 808 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,240 Because the first question that that that a student gets after 809 00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:27,480 graduating is should I buy a A ring or should I buy a low B 810 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,960 ring. And when you come out as a 811 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,040 layman, like when you're just, you know, learning to see your 812 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,360 body in the air, like learning to sense how life in the air 813 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,040 feels like you know, it's it's it's a brand new way of 814 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,520 transportation that that you have discovered as a human 815 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,880 pushing the limits into the unknown is, is a big question 816 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:46,480 like should. And you know, I was researching 817 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:48,640 all kinds of articles. I was trying to reach out to all 818 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,520 sorts of information sources that should I buy a earring or 819 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,880 should I buy a low earring? And of course that feeling or 820 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,640 the intimacy that everyone has, there's an intuition which gives 821 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,320 you a part of that answer. Until somebody came across and 822 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,040 told me that dude, certifications only matter up to 823 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,360 a point and they're very good for the marketing perspective. 824 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,560 But if you really want to be a good pilot, then just go by the 825 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,400 feel of it and and then just go by what you see in the 826 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,960 manufacturer rather than what the certification is saying 827 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,640 about the manufacturer. Because certification does tell 828 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:28,240 you how it reopens or how it kind of recovers, but it does 829 00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:31,360 not tell you how often it gets into that configuration or how 830 00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,800 often it gets to shit. And then like then I started 831 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:39,240 reading the the the documents, the certification documents, 832 00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:42,200 like what kind of you know, like the details about it. 833 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:48,000 But is certification a bit more irrelevant than what it is? 834 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,240 And is it holding back the R&D in in in the sport of 835 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:54,680 paragliding at least up to some point because people are 836 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,720 emphasizing on something that that that does not really have 837 00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:02,680 that kind of weight so much? I think it's great we have that 838 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:04,280 certification. If you wouldn't have the 839 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,160 certification then you know brands they they would cheat a 840 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,480 lot more you know and I think the the wings will be a lot 841 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,600 sketchier out there. There would for sure be brand, 842 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,320 you know probably big brands that that totally have the trust 843 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:26,280 from from the customers and and you know try not to cheat but I 844 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,760 think there will be quite quite some gliders out there that are 845 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,160 doing quite well. But for certain you know 846 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:38,680 configurations for certain manoeuvres or something they 847 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,000 they will totally fail because no one, no one will test it you 848 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,800 know. So I think I think it's good we 849 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,880 have, we have that certification system but in a way it's also a 850 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,720 little bit overrated. I think there's still quite 851 00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:58,680 quite differences I think from 1 glider to another and and also 852 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,760 as you said it, it only says how a wing reacts when it does 853 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,920 collapse. It doesn't say how much it takes 854 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,840 until a wing does collapse. That would be actually a very 855 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,760 interesting you know number if if you could compare this, but 856 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,600 that's obviously impossible to do. 857 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,920 But I think that that's quite a, it's quite an important thing as 858 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:22,160 well, especially with smaller wings when you fly close to the 859 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,000 ground because having a collapse close to the ground is always a 860 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,640 bad thing like it doesn't matter how gentle or bad the collapse 861 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:34,440 is, is going to be you know. So I think anytime you fly close 862 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,440 to the ground it's it's really important to not get a collapse 863 00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,120 at first hand. Makes sense. 864 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,560 You know, I mean, I could keep on going on and on about this 865 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,520 question. It is so deep and so interesting 866 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,840 with certification and and the amount of fun that it allows you 867 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:53,760 to have. But the the profile of a guide 868 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,640 which basically inflates the leading edge, you know, there 869 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,840 are so many kinds that inflate the leading edge and after that 870 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,880 they just don't collapse. Like they're not like the foil 871 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,280 guides. Or maybe are they the fault, 872 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,720 like, you know, the the the kite that builds a tube on its 873 00:49:07,720 --> 00:49:10,840 leading edge, which you inflate? Yeah, why can't we have that 874 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:13,480 technology to resist collapses in paragliding? 875 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,720 Like what's what's stopping us to make paragliding is 876 00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:18,320 completely collapse resistant with something like that which 877 00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,120 is flexible yet kind of topic when you need it. 878 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:26,200 I think that it is back in the days, but I think that you can 879 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,160 still fall into your own wing. You know, I think at some stage 880 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,200 it it might be good that the wing actually keeps CNM 881 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,440 collapses but honestly I haven't done too much research of that 882 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,280 but I know this is all been tested and they've all came away 883 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,520 from this. Also like closed cells like the 884 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:48,240 the foil kites have like you know air wolves or airlock 885 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:51,760 system that the air goes in but it can't come out anymore of the 886 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:55,400 of the paraglider. This is all been tested and and 887 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,800 this is all been not used anymore because it was too 888 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,480 dangerous you know. So I I guess at some stage it's 889 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:08,480 good if things can collapse. So, so, so the collapse, Sorry, 890 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,480 go ahead. Who knows, maybe maybe we'll 891 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,080 have again wings in the future that that have an air loss 892 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:15,680 system. I don't know. 893 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,160 I think you get a bit more stability if you have a closed 894 00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,240 cell wing than than when you have the leading edge open. 895 00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:24,760 But yeah, we'll see. Time will tell. 896 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,480 Probably not for Thermaline, but, but who knows, maybe maybe 897 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,200 Mustache Tan is going to have closed sales again, I don't 898 00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,120 know. I don't think so, but yeah. 899 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,760 No. So we can stay excited because 900 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,560 at least the mustache one has has promised to deliver so much 901 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,480 fun. So the the time coming upfront 902 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,880 looks really amazing. Benny, I quickly want to talk 903 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:49,560 upon you know the topic of analysing a few things but but 904 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,360 but analysing challenges in in in in the art of light that we 905 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,320 want to practice. But before I I get that I I want 906 00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,720 to get some perspective from the from the manufacturer side 907 00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:03,080 because you have been involved in some way with with with these 908 00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:06,280 new technologies that are coming and and redefining the way you 909 00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,280 have fun in the air. Often we have seen you know 910 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:14,560 designers break away or merge or like come out with their own 911 00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,720 version of revolutionary technologies and having fun. 912 00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:19,440 Like you know there are designers who are who are 913 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,760 working with big brands. Saying that I am, I'm going out 914 00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,640 and starting my own brand and brand wiring still reputable 915 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,520 names. And when you see like we we see 916 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,520 gliders going in from three liner CS to two liner CS and 917 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:37,280 then 2.5 B and you know like every every other time and there 918 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:40,800 there is a new product launch. The manufacturers claims that it 919 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:45,080 is the safest way to have fun and at this risk versus reward 920 00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,440 spectrum. When a customer has to place 921 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:53,840 their trust in a new product, what kind of research can you 922 00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,800 put behind like how do you determine that, what amount of 923 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:02,640 R&D and what amount of effort has gone into bringing this 924 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,680 product out. Of course the legacy factor and 925 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,080 and the marketing and various things will tell you a lot about 926 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:10,640 the brand. I'm not denying that. 927 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:14,960 But still when a brand come up with a brand new technology, how 928 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,200 do you as a customer or if if you were in a customer's shoes, 929 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,680 how would you determine, but you know if if this is worth my 930 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,920 effort. And then along with that if you 931 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,400 can just tell us a little bit like how did life look like when 932 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,800 this project even though I understand that you were not the 933 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,080 the project lead for this, but how did life look like in in 934 00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,720 manufacturers term during those days at that time? 935 00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:43,200 I think for most customers for most pilots it's it's impossible 936 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:48,040 to to figure out and how much effort has been put into a wing 937 00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:49,640 from a brand. And I also think it doesn't 938 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,800 matter sometimes those designers that they Draw Something and the 939 00:52:53,800 --> 00:53:00,920 first prototype, it's amazing at Swing doing speed wings we, you 940 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,480 know we've we've tried 10 prototypes and at the end we 941 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,600 went for the first one But obviously, you know I think 942 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,080 they're wings that brands make I don't know 30-40 fifty 943 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:15,800 prototypes because they they needed to reach what they want. 944 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,000 So I don't think it matters how much effort has been put into 945 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,600 it. What matters at the end is to 946 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,520 find the product and how it's working. 947 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:28,200 You know, how stable it is, how good it climbs, how good the 948 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,280 performance it is and and how safe it is. 949 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:34,800 But I think for a normal pilot is even for me as an instructor 950 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,760 this is pretty hard to find out these days. 951 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,960 Yeah. So I think I'm kind of, I think 952 00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,080 there's something missing in our community. 953 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,960 I was thinking the other day about making a website that 954 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:54,000 would basically record all the collapses or all the incidents 955 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:57,880 with every wing. So every wing on the market out 956 00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,920 there would be registered on that website. 957 00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:04,560 And then every pilot who had an accident or almost accident or 958 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:09,480 some kind of incident with this wing basically puts it up there. 959 00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,040 So in an ideal world, every pilot would do this and then you 960 00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:19,200 get, you know, let's say, 100,000 people there and and 961 00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:20,960 there's there's going to be a ton of data. 962 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,960 And then you might see, oh, this wing, oh, there's a lot of 963 00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,520 people that have accidentally spins this wing while 964 00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,400 thermaling. And with another wing, you see, 965 00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,800 wow, this is almost never the case. 966 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,520 No one's ever spent this wing by accident while thermaling. 967 00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:39,680 But there's some issue with collapses with this wing or 968 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,880 whatever. So I think that would be very 969 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:46,760 interesting to see and and would give us that missing data. 970 00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,160 We don't know. You're right, if you read the 971 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:52,600 market, the marketing text from a, you know, from a brand that 972 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,680 brings out the new win, you basically feel like I can't fly 973 00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,720 the old model anymore. It's not that I need to have new 974 00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:02,240 one, It's like I'm risking my life just. 975 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,640 Because of. Money, you know, kind of an I'm 976 00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,200 an idiot. Like the new have had so much 977 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,960 more performance and it's so safer like got to get the new 978 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,960 one, you know. Yeah, happily pilots don't fly 979 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,360 next to the old model because there will be very few 980 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,800 difference they will be very disappointed in, in the 981 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,720 difference of extra glider ratio they get, I think So this is, I 982 00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:25,040 think to me this is very overrated nowadays. 983 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,360 There's so little, you know steps to be made in performance 984 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,400 from one one model to another. Not always, but but a lot of 985 00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,920 times it's it's very minor differences. 986 00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,320 Yeah, before I jump onto the next one, I quickly I forgot 987 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,080 forgot to bring this up. Your tech tech has basically 988 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,960 increased the speed. Do you widely sometime down the 989 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:50,400 lane see the speed of triple C wings increasing when you know a 990 00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,800 little sprinkle of this technology that you guys have on 991 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:54,520 mustache? Not at all. 992 00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,320 I think CCC gliders are faster than a mustache. 993 00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:01,320 The mustache is actually not a very fast wing. 994 00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,240 I think there's many two liners out there that in the same size, 995 00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:08,680 they would have the same speed of moustache or are even faster 996 00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,720 than a moustache. What, Because the moustache has 997 00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:17,000 actually a quite thick airfoil it has with with actually 998 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,480 limited the speed. Or Benny has limited the speed 999 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,280 from the moustache on purpose for stability. 1000 00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,960 So a lot of people think the moustache is that crazy fast 1001 00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,200 wing, but it's actually not true. 1002 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:32,000 It's it's actually much more designed for stability than for 1003 00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,680 speed. But the CCC wings, they are more 1004 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,880 for speed and glide than for stability. 1005 00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,040 Yeah, yeah. Makes sense? 1006 00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,760 Yeah. And I think, you know, there's 1007 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,400 CCC wings that have a bit of reflex in there and there's CCC 1008 00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,480 wings that don't have it. They're they're supposed, yeah. 1009 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:53,880 So this is, as I said, this is not a crazy new technology in 1010 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:58,520 the moustaches. I think it's just a smart choice 1011 00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:02,760 of parameters for that type of wing that Benny did. 1012 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,320 Makes sense. But I'm curious when you say 1013 00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,840 that you you guys had to limit the speed on this because it was 1014 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,320 it was getting probably getting way too fast and way too much 1015 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,320 fun for everyone. But do do you guys fly one of 1016 00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:21,400 those you know factory grounded no limited like no holes bar 1017 00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,760 editions that that you guys accept for yourself or or do you 1018 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,880 do you guys fly there the commercial ones as well you? 1019 00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,840 Know it's the moustache always been limited. 1020 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,640 We haven't actually made much faster moustaches. 1021 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:36,280 But when you couldn't if you want to. 1022 00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,280 Limit it. But if Benny would want to make 1023 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:41,880 faster moustaches, he would clearly know how to make them 1024 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:44,960 faster. But he has already from the very 1025 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,200 beginning decided to not make it very. 1026 00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:54,680 Do not make it crazy fast, but to make it more to build it more 1027 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,240 for stability instead of speed, you know. 1028 00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,720 So if we we fly the standard mustaf. 1029 00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,920 No that exciting. Anyways you know coming back to 1030 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,080 the Gray area that you said when new technologies are you know 1031 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,800 it's it's almost impossible for a customer to kind of put their 1032 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,160 effort and kind of put nowhere to research to know how how much 1033 00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:16,840 effort has gone from manufacturer's side. 1034 00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,240 And of course we've seen people getting surprised of course 1035 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,960 unknowingly when trying out new technologies and two layer CS 1036 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:28,240 and 2.5 liner BS which probably will go to blue liner BS as 1037 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,160 well. The way we are progressing we 1038 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,640 see people kind of getting into unpleasant situations and I've 1039 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,160 I've seen you you've had extensive write ups of how to 1040 00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,680 deal with those kind of things and how to figure figure out. 1041 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:47,280 So if if someone has to do that kind of like research that that 1042 00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,200 you put in while writing those write offs like is it just from 1043 00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,800 experience or is there a certain way of things that you look at 1044 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,440 how wing behaves or like how do you how do you gather the 1045 00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,680 information that that gives you the that that outlook on a on a 1046 00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,000 on an incident or a new wink. Basically, that's what I'm 1047 00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:06,440 curious about. I think it's super difficult as 1048 00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,360 a normal pilot. There's there's not there's not 1049 00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:13,600 something I can I could say like OK this is this is how you know 1050 00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:15,800 you can figure this out. How wing should be. 1051 00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,840 How a save wing should look like you know this is like even even 1052 00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:24,000 for me I'm I'm not 100% sure you know which way you save it than 1053 00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,480 another it is this is so hard to tell and and at the end the only 1054 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:33,360 way you can tell is you know by by you know making thousands 1055 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,920 thousand wing and sell them and after three years you see how it 1056 00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,240 worked. You know basically that's you 1057 00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:44,240 know also for the brands you know they they know A wing very 1058 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:49,120 well but at the end of the day you these are test pilots and 1059 00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,120 and you know if a test pilot doesn't want to get a collapse, 1060 00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:55,560 he doesn't get a collapse. But how the customer that flies 1061 00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,920 that B wing that is not a test pilot, how he gets along with 1062 00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,080 it. It's always a bit of you know 1063 01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:05,200 mystery also to the brands and that's what the market shows in 1064 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,200 those two, three-year cycle where the wing is, is used you 1065 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,360 know. So I think it's it's pretty 1066 01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:14,160 difficult to to to find these things out and it's mostly 1067 01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:18,080 experience and personal experience, but also experience 1068 01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,640 from other pilots videos. I've seen stories that pilots 1069 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:25,200 have told me things like that. Makes sense and thank you for 1070 01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,720 your honesty because IA lot of people in this situation if 1071 01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,600 they're represented or like were face off a brand would just say 1072 01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,400 that no we we have done the research so just believe us for 1073 01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,200 it but I think as you said wait for the technology to be there 1074 01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,120 for a while before putting you know your trust into it is it is 1075 01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,720 am I getting it correctly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 1076 01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:46,880 I mean, sure, we, you know, we've flown those wings. 1077 01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:51,400 Before the moustache was sold there were I think we had 10 1078 01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:55,320 moustas for 1 1/2 years or almost two years that have been 1079 01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,960 flying in in you know from from good pilots all over the world 1080 01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:03,720 in in in you know extreme situations in very different 1081 01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:05,760 situations. I was using it for speed flying 1082 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,400 some other guys were soaring with it and and you know 1083 01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,080 together we've we've collected many, many, many hours on on 1084 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,680 those moustache on those pre sealed wings before it actually 1085 01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:18,160 got sold. And same thing now with the with 1086 01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,720 the line we've we've done hundreds probably 1000 you know 1087 01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:26,520 flights with with different line wings and sizes before it's been 1088 01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,280 sold. So we we know that it that it's 1089 01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:33,120 working but again you know we we also know the limits of it and 1090 01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:37,960 when not to use it and and and what to do if it's turbulent you 1091 01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:42,240 know and how the customer essentially uses it then it's 1092 01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,320 another thing which is always a bit of a question you know. 1093 01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:49,200 Yeah, I feel like there should be an industry standard like I 1094 01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,800 don't know if it is there in commercial aviation or when when 1095 01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,120 many have these fighter jets which have been produced on the 1096 01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:58,320 like military lines that there there should be a wing that 1097 01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:02,800 should go under mandatory amount of hours of flying before it is 1098 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:06,520 out there in the in the market. Because I think as as a 1099 01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,760 manufacturer with some bit of financial backing, it's so easy 1100 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,160 to approach a factory who manufacture these kind of 1101 01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:16,360 things, say that hey, here's the money, here's the minimum model 1102 01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,720 quantity, let me get my toys and let me go out there and market 1103 01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,680 them as best as I can and try to make a living out of it. 1104 01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,760 So I think if if we have that standard where the amount of 1105 01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:30,960 test flying hours are are kind of dictated that you need these 1106 01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,680 many hours that will that will be a really good standard for 1107 01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:36,640 the industry in in time to come with us. 1108 01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:40,680 It sure would help, but I think that at the end is, you know 1109 01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:44,600 it's still the certification that or or some kind of 1110 01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:48,120 certification that that needs to be there before a wing you know 1111 01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,560 can be sold. And you know at FLAIR we would 1112 01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:55,080 like having a certification for the moustache, but this is not 1113 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,760 possible with the current certification. 1114 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,840 You just can't put a a moustache through that. 1115 01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:02,600 It's just not made for this, you know. 1116 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,480 But who knows, maybe one day we'll have something in the 1117 01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:10,440 future. What scares me is that we as as 1118 01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:14,800 a as a consumer are basically making Instagram videos as 1119 01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:16,960 certification. You know, like the algorithms 1120 01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,040 that show us the social media is what is playing with our minds 1121 01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:25,320 as consumers that hey, that wing looks so much fun that wing does 1122 01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,280 not see. We don't see a lot of gnarly 1123 01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:31,320 stuff about that wing out there. And it basically subconsciously 1124 01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,440 is telling your brain that it's OK to put trust in that wing but 1125 01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,840 that's through a six inch phone screen or A5 inch phone screen 1126 01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,760 which does not tell you the reality and certification being 1127 01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,760 very limited, you can only put so much trust into that. 1128 01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:48,960 So it's it's kind of like lost part that I'm I'm, I'm searching 1129 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:50,360 like the answer that I'm searching for. 1130 01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:52,960 But the only way is that OK man, if you're so keen then go out 1131 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,000 and try for yourself. But then then in in today's 1132 01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:59,680 digital age like I wish we had bit more data points with the 1133 01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,920 help of AI and everything to you know just streamline this a bit 1134 01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,120 more because there's a substantial amount of people 1135 01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,280 doing this to make it commercially viable to to invite 1136 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,800 that kind of R&D into our sport and to make it more accessible 1137 01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,880 and and and get even more people. 1138 01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,080 We are the joy of the out of flight that we all have. 1139 01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:19,280 Yeah, I totally agree. It would be nice to have more 1140 01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:23,680 data as I said, you know, like that website or whatever for me 1141 01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,520 would be it for sure would be nice also for the brands to have 1142 01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:34,440 more accurate data about how the wings work, you know and and 1143 01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:38,520 yeah, in real life with with the pilots that it's made for, I 1144 01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:42,400 think yeah, maybe you know you you talked about the progression 1145 01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:47,520 at the beginning of the the show and whether it's paragliding or 1146 01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:49,280 or speed flying or speed writing. 1147 01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:54,680 I think as I said, it's important not to push the limits 1148 01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:59,200 and not to get bad experiences because you know, it throws you 1149 01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,440 back you you're going to get fear which you might deal with. 1150 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,360 You can deal with it or maybe not, you know, like I've I've 1151 01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,240 once used my reserve while flying thermals and I couldn't 1152 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:11,520 fly cross country for the last 5-6 years. 1153 01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:16,040 I had, you know, more fear than than you know, joy. 1154 01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,560 So I didn't bother flying cross country for like 5 years I 1155 01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:23,240 think. And now somehow last year I felt 1156 01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,960 like, hey, I want to go back into it and I still have fear, 1157 01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:31,160 but now I have more joy again. And so I I think it's very 1158 01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:36,960 important to to not rush things and to do things step by step. 1159 01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:39,520 You know, like there's instructors that tell you, hey, 1160 01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:42,880 you need three years of, you know, experience before you can 1161 01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:45,480 do this. I'm like, no, three years 1162 01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:47,480 doesn't help shit. You know, I have sometimes 1163 01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,160 people that, you know, want to come to a speed flying course 1164 01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:54,880 and say, you know, I fly for 20 years now, have quite a lot of 1165 01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,040 flights, and I want to get into speed flying now and then I'm 1166 01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,600 like, OK, how much flights do you have? 1167 01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:04,880 And they're like, oh, I didn't count, you know, sounds very 1168 01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:06,720 experienced. And then I'm like asking, yeah, 1169 01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:10,560 is it 20, is it 200, is it 2000? And they're like, I'm sure it's 1170 01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:13,760 one 150. And then, you know, OK, he did 1171 01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:17,360 150 flights in 20 years. Like, OK, you should better not 1172 01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,160 speed fly. You know, I'm, I'm really not 1173 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,800 the instructor that tries to hold people back from 1174 01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,040 progressing. I think it's amazing if someone 1175 01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,440 wants to progress quickly, but you have to do it step by step. 1176 01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,920 So especially speed flying, speed flying is it's it's quite 1177 01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,600 an easy to learn sport. It looks really extreme and it's 1178 01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:39,880 obviously very dangerous if you fuck it up, but you can get into 1179 01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,640 it very quickly. You can, you can get on a 1180 01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:47,240 smaller size pretty quick if you know if you're not working, if 1181 01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:50,600 you can go fly every day and you can get your flights numbers up 1182 01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,800 really quick, you can take a very quick progression. 1183 01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,440 Same thing in paragliding. The other day I had a guy here 1184 01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,760 in the course, he worked for Microsoft. 1185 01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,520 He's paragliding for two years now and he's flying at Seno and 1186 01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:03,800 he's flying PwC. I was like, wow, that's a path 1187 01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,160 progression. But he quit his job and all he 1188 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,480 did, all he did in two years is paragliding. 1189 01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:15,600 I'm I'm sure he's a safe pilot. And I I think that's, you know, 1190 01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:21,240 I I always try to or when people tell me, hey, what what needs do 1191 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:23,040 I be able to do to fly a moustache? 1192 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,760 And I'll tell them, OK, you got to, you know, you're going to 1193 01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,120 have to deal with the speed and the roll and not tell them, oh, 1194 01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:30,880 you got to have two years experience. 1195 01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:34,560 Two years doesn't say anything. You know, it's there's a there's 1196 01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:40,080 a lot of instructors out there that that try to, you know, keep 1197 01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,720 people off from doing something because they know they're not 1198 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,320 ready for them. But it doesn't help them. 1199 01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:48,880 Just tell them, oh, this is dangerous, don't do it. 1200 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:52,440 You know, it's I think it's much better if you tell them, hey, 1201 01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:56,880 you can do this, but this is what you have to have, you know, 1202 01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:58,960 in your skill set. You got to have this first, this 1203 01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:02,280 first and this and once you got those skills then you can do 1204 01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:06,360 that next step and learn this safely and and and I think 1205 01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,120 that's very important, you know, and it's funny sometimes in in 1206 01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,400 the speed flying courses people are surprised of what sort of 1207 01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,319 wing I already give them. They wouldn't expect to fly a 1208 01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:19,640 lion on the first day you know. But because I know the pilots 1209 01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:23,279 and I know what they can do or not, then this works. 1210 01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,200 Yeah. So I think it's super important 1211 01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:31,359 to progress step by step and not to jump any steps to be safe 1212 01:08:31,399 --> 01:08:35,960 basically and also to be current, you know, also a common 1213 01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:41,279 thing I see a lot is that people think like if they can fly acro 1214 01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:43,880 really well, it's going to help them a ton for flying cross 1215 01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,080 country. It might help them a little bit 1216 01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:49,920 when they're about to fall out of the sky, but it's not going 1217 01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:52,680 to help them to prevent the collapse, You know, if you want 1218 01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,160 to fly cross country, what? How? 1219 01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:59,359 To be able to do is fly active right, you want to not let 1220 01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:04,000 collapses happen. And to stop collapses you have 1221 01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:06,520 to learn to fly active and to learn to fly active. 1222 01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,319 You can't do this in SAV Overlake. 1223 01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,120 You can learn to deal with collapses, but preventing 1224 01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,520 collapses you only learn by exposing yourself to turbulence 1225 01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,880 and, you know, learn to fly active. 1226 01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,200 Wow, so much sense. So much sense in there. 1227 01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:26,080 Yeah, and and I think at the end of the day, it's it's true for 1228 01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:29,359 for each individual thing. If you want to speed fly cross 1229 01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:33,080 country doesn't help you. I've had in in in the course, in 1230 01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:36,479 the same course I've had super experienced cross country pilot 1231 01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:40,800 and I've had a you know, ex student with with a half year 1232 01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:44,720 licence you know, but bloody good skier and you you couldn't 1233 01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:46,439 by looking at how they were flying. 1234 01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:50,000 You couldn't tell who was like super experienced cross country 1235 01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,000 pilot and who was a pretty fresh pilot. 1236 01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,640 I think that's also super important to respect is that 1237 01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:59,480 every discipline requires its own skills. 1238 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,720 Of course you learn speed flying a little quicker if you're a 1239 01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,000 super experienced cross country pilot but at the end of the day 1240 01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:08,840 it's a different sport and it's got his own rules. 1241 01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:13,640 Same thing for speed riding and same thing for Aqua flying and 1242 01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:17,480 same thing for paragliding and and I realized that as well I 1243 01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:21,240 sometimes do tandem flights here in town with the tourists and 1244 01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:25,920 for example last year I haven't I've done one flight so when I 1245 01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:29,360 took my tandem out recently I realized I was super rusty like 1246 01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:32,120 all my speed flying all my mustache flying all the cross 1247 01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:35,520 country flying. I didn't it helped me 0 for 1248 01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:39,280 flying tandem I I really felt not comfortable doing big wing 1249 01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:44,160 overs and then the landing and it felt so weird to me So yeah 1250 01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:50,080 it's I think each discipline is very different and and he needs 1251 01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,200 if you want to be good at a discipline you need to be 1252 01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,840 current at that discipline and just because you're current at 1253 01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:59,240 another discipline doesn't mean you're automatically current at 1254 01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:02,920 this other one. I I also realized that when I'm 1255 01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:06,040 sometimes in spring I don't speed fly much do other things 1256 01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:08,240 fly cross country or mountain biking. 1257 01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:13,080 Then when I go back speed flying in like August then I feel like 1258 01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:18,080 on 11 meter rings like holy shit this is fast and I'm like how 1259 01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:22,600 was I comfortable on an 8m wing last fall as like this is 1260 01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,400 insane. I felt like this 8m wing wasn't 1261 01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:29,480 too hard to fly and now I feel like this 11 is a crazy weapon 1262 01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:33,080 so and it's just because you're on current. 1263 01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,880 Yeah, I think that's that's a very important thing. 1264 01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,160 I want to get across that whatever you do, if you want to 1265 01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,840 do it on a high level, you need to be current at this exact 1266 01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:45,920 discipline. And doing much of another thing 1267 01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:48,880 actually doesn't help you as as much as people think for that 1268 01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:51,360 other discipline. At least that's for me, you 1269 01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:53,560 know. But I I think it's similar for 1270 01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:56,320 other people. There's pure wisdom out there 1271 01:11:56,360 --> 01:12:00,480 like and there was many because this makes airtime as as 1272 01:12:00,480 --> 01:12:02,560 eventual. You know one of the metrics 1273 01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,320 where you can measure and if you haven't had airtime in that 1274 01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:08,200 year, does not matter what amount of airtime you have had 1275 01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:11,560 in previous years, you you are forgetting to feel how your body 1276 01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:13,280 feels. Exactly. 1277 01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:17,320 Totally in in paragliding, cross country flying is about airtime 1278 01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,720 in, you know, AKRO and speed flying, it's about numbers of 1279 01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:25,800 flights I think because the flights are short, so you have 1280 01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:31,000 to make it up with the numbers. No so so interesting and I think 1281 01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:35,320 basically what what what comes to my thought is that when when 1282 01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:38,600 when you as a pilot like you know nobody goes in and says 1283 01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:40,920 that OK I'm going to start raising paragliders for the rest 1284 01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:42,240 of. I mean OK there are some people 1285 01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,880 who have their inclination towards some sport but every one 1286 01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:48,000 of us when we start our new beginners course we are pretty 1287 01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:51,280 much clueless how how our minds and how our bodies are going to 1288 01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:54,360 feel under the wings or like which discipline will be 1289 01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:58,040 choosing which is the accuracy acro or cross country or one of 1290 01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:01,240 these speed things. But as we develop more in the 1291 01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:04,960 sport we try to lean towards 1 discipline more than the others 1292 01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:08,200 because I think it's it's financially and it's physically 1293 01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:11,280 impossible to practice everything as a person and get 1294 01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,720 better run. I was, I was wondering if 1295 01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,120 there's someone who says that I really want to push the limit 1296 01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:19,240 and like you know be really competitive and I'm going cross 1297 01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:22,120 country because this is more or less a paralyzed forecast. 1298 01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:24,480 So more of my audience is flying paralyzed. 1299 01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,720 If you're pushing cross country and acro in in paragliding and 1300 01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:32,200 it's it's rocking your world hard enough and then you see 1301 01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:36,000 these new toys out there, you know which promise to deliver a 1302 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,920 brand new experience and make your life in the air much more 1303 01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:40,360 fun and in a very different manner. 1304 01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:42,680 And you're like OK, I kind of want to start putting my 1305 01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:45,280 resources there as well and I kind of want to start chasing 1306 01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,400 those those feelings like that excitement as well. 1307 01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:55,840 Is it possible to get better at cross country as well as you 1308 01:13:55,840 --> 01:14:00,840 know these freestyle kind of flying that lion and many or 1309 01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:05,200 mustache offers Because like really our brain somehow forget 1310 01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:09,360 how it was to kind of you know be the best in cross country 1311 01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,920 when it when it tries to push the limits in in in freestyle 1312 01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:15,120 like this or or or the vice versa. 1313 01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:18,760 Like do you think it is, it is possible to be in conflict of 1314 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,080 interest in in in two types of flying. 1315 01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,600 So if you just focus on one, if you're trying to just go 1316 01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:27,040 absolute hover at it like you know, head down and try to do 1317 01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:28,280 the rest in the world kind of thing. 1318 01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:30,920 I don't know. I never tried to be the best in 1319 01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:32,520 the world. Hard to say. 1320 01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:35,760 I think in in many other sports this is not possible. 1321 01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:41,120 You know, like in in football or in skiing or in, you know, let's 1322 01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:45,640 say in in some more normal sports that are done by much 1323 01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:47,920 more people. I think the limit is just way 1324 01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,080 higher than in our sports. You know, I think overall 1325 01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:56,080 paragliding is still a very new and very small sport that you 1326 01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:00,680 know if you want to fly, you know World Cup you can progress 1327 01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:05,080 pretty quickly and get there. But if you want to ski downhill 1328 01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:07,880 World Cup, you know it's a much longer way to get there. 1329 01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:11,080 I think you know and you know speed flying, there's obviously 1330 01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:15,000 not much competition anymore and there is Akro, I guess Akro is 1331 01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:18,680 is pretty difficult nowadays as well to get there but probably 1332 01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:23,240 also not like skiing. So I think probably in our sport 1333 01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:26,800 there is still room to to do to you know to disciplines. 1334 01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:29,600 I mean look at Paul Takas, you know, like he's he's super good 1335 01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:31,680 at Akro. I'm not sure if he's still one 1336 01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:34,560 of the top pilots, but you know now he's doing ex helps and he's 1337 01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:36,120 flying PwC. Yeah. 1338 01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:41,000 So if if it is possible, then I think much more still in in the 1339 01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:45,200 flying communities or the flying sports than than in more 1340 01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:47,320 involved with longer history sports. 1341 01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:50,360 No definitely. And Paul definitely she does 1342 01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:53,960 show the like the way forward because he he he incidentally 1343 01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:56,520 happens to be the very first guest on paragliding Atlas. 1344 01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,440 You know he was very kind to come up and talk about the 1345 01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:01,920 flying in Colombia. That was the very first episode 1346 01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:04,320 we did. So a super fun guy to hang out 1347 01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:06,800 and you know what an inspiration and what what a base of 1348 01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:09,560 knowledge Then he you know we are almost at the end of the 1349 01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:12,920 show Now I I kind of wanted to your closing comments because of 1350 01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:15,600 course I've seen the way you look at things and the moral 1351 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:16,800 wisdom you put into your thoughts. 1352 01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:22,520 Is there something that you wish we as pilots kind of did better 1353 01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:24,600 in our own flying. Like is is there something that 1354 01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:27,680 kind of makes you makes you agitated or angry and you just 1355 01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,880 like yes, I I wish I could change that for the community or 1356 01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:34,160 like I wish the community did things better in that way I. 1357 01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:42,520 Think what I would wish from the community to do better is first 1358 01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:46,960 of all being like less brand orientated. 1359 01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:50,160 I feel like many people are married to the to a brand, you 1360 01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:55,160 know and I think every brand has good wings but sometimes also 1361 01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:57,920 not the best wing, you know, just the way it goes. 1362 01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:02,560 So I think in general people are a little bit too brand minded 1363 01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:05,680 less, not enough open minded to other brands. 1364 01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:12,160 That's one thing and I think there is there should be more 1365 01:17:12,240 --> 01:17:15,640 more knowledge resources. You know there are books you 1366 01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:19,800 know by book of you know how to do paragliding and things. 1367 01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:23,080 But there is, you know for example, especially the mini 1368 01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:29,120 wing beef flying world, there isn't that much reliable or or 1369 01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:33,280 good resources for people that want to teach themselves. 1370 01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,560 And and the fact is that a lot of people that get into speed 1371 01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:38,640 flying, they don't have access to a school. 1372 01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:42,000 They don't live somewhere where there's actually school or or a 1373 01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,600 mentor that you know can watch their progression a little bit 1374 01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,280 and maybe slow them down every now and then or something. 1375 01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:51,760 And and I guess the same thing in in paragliding even. 1376 01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:55,800 You know. So I wish there would be like a 1377 01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:00,840 website with very dedicated, very good advice for those kind 1378 01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:05,880 of people in our community that do not live in those flying 1379 01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,720 hotspots that have, you know, a ton of schools. 1380 01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:12,160 You know, like here as I said, there's eighteen schools around 1381 01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:15,920 here and and there's so many good pilots around Interlock and 1382 01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:17,520 we have so many world champions here. 1383 01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:20,680 Kriddle Mauer lives here. You know, there's if if someone 1384 01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,560 wants to progress and become very good then there's there's 1385 01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:28,000 plenty of pilots he can go and seek, you know, knowledge from. 1386 01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,560 But in a lot of countries that's not the case and I wish there 1387 01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:36,720 would be better resources for those pilots that that live 1388 01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:41,120 somewhere and don't have that. No, I I completely resonate with 1389 01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:44,160 that answer and in fact the reason why I do that is that is 1390 01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:47,600 the bottom line of our show paralyzing Atlas to make 1391 01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:49,800 knowledge accessible to wide audiences. 1392 01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:53,320 And because I was one of those guys before I moved to Europe 1393 01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,720 where I I came from a place where the network of pilots was 1394 01:18:56,720 --> 01:18:59,320 not that big. I mean of course we we have a 1395 01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:02,680 very tiny and a very close knit but a very welcoming community 1396 01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:05,040 where you know the the the knowledgeable and experienced 1397 01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:08,720 ones are very open and sharing. But just the whole ecosystem in 1398 01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:11,800 Europe or in one of these like you know countries, Western 1399 01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,000 countries like Switzerland and the Alps and like you go to 1400 01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:18,520 Basano and all of that you're just amongst people who are like 1401 01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:21,920 basically eating sleeping and living paradigm or one of these 1402 01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:24,880 sports all the time. So just access becomes so much 1403 01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,840 easier. But I am doing my own tiny bit 1404 01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,560 through the world of final mining Atlas, so I don't know. 1405 01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,400 Do you guys have something similar in in in speed flying or 1406 01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:35,840 or should I start speed flying and start speed flying Atlas as 1407 01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:39,520 well? No, this is actually missing. 1408 01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:41,200 Yeah, I was just thinking that the other day. 1409 01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:43,280 There's, I don't think there's a Speed Fly podcast. 1410 01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:44,560 I mean, I haven't heard the front. 1411 01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:48,680 I mean I think to be honest it's a lot of work and and and you 1412 01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:52,120 probably get an got an idea but a lot of time I have to get to 1413 01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:55,240 to get you on the show. But it's it's a resource which 1414 01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:59,520 just is so magical for people who are not in those locations. 1415 01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:04,440 Oh. Sure, I believe you. 1416 01:20:04,440 --> 01:20:09,840 But I think this be flying scene is still a very small scene and 1417 01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:14,000 and what I've seen is the people, you know people's be fly 1418 01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:17,200 for let's say five years and then they're kind of saturated a 1419 01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:19,560 little bit. There's I think there's very few 1420 01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:23,120 pilots that that keep doing this for 10/15/20 years. 1421 01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:25,880 You know, in paragliding it's much more common. 1422 01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:28,720 You know pilots, they they they fly for the, you know, their 1423 01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,360 whole life. But to me it looks like speed 1424 01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:35,360 flying is much more of something people consume for a while and 1425 01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:39,440 they love it and they're totally addicted to it and then it kind 1426 01:20:39,440 --> 01:20:41,720 of fades off a little bit, you know, it loses a little bit. 1427 01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:46,680 It's it's how to say it's rush when you do it when you've done 1428 01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:50,680 it too much and then people go on you know and and you know 1429 01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:54,120 maybe fly more cross county or do akro or other things. 1430 01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:57,240 I've I've seen a lot of pilots that I've I've teached once and 1431 01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:01,080 and we're really into it and and then then kind of progress to 1432 01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:02,720 something else which I think it's amazing. 1433 01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:07,600 You know if if I wasn't a instructor in a test pilot and 1434 01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:10,880 you know we're we're doing all of these new things then it 1435 01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,360 might be the same for me. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with 1436 01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:16,120 that. So maybe we're still a bit of a 1437 01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:19,720 small scene for having our own podcast but I definitely think 1438 01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:22,840 it's it's growing to speed flying and and I I think 1439 01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:26,320 especially with the latest technology we have on the Parac 1440 01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:29,320 Heights, is it for coastal soaring or is it for speed 1441 01:21:29,320 --> 01:21:33,440 flying Now with a line this makes it much more attractive 1442 01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:36,680 flying small wings and I see more and more people flying 1443 01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:39,880 small wings like here in Switzerland like mini wings, 1444 01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:42,760 high can fly wings, you know like a pantom or a Kodi P like 1445 01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:46,280 those 16 let's say 14 to 18 meter wings. 1446 01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:49,440 They have the last few years they have become like way more 1447 01:21:49,440 --> 01:21:52,360 popular. There's so many pilots that have 1448 01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:54,880 their cross country wings. They have their Aqua wings but 1449 01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:58,000 they also have one of those small high can fly wings which 1450 01:21:58,000 --> 01:21:59,280 is which is awesome. Yeah. 1451 01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:01,640 I I think it's it's it's a good direction. 1452 01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:02,920 Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that 1453 01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:04,440 and and people love it. Yeah. 1454 01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:07,440 No, it's so nice to hear about. You know it's it's growing 1455 01:22:07,440 --> 01:22:11,240 progressively, you know and what what basically like what holds 1456 01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:15,800 me back from speed flying is, is that I think like it doesn't, it 1457 01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:17,960 doesn't allow you to tell you a story basically. 1458 01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:20,920 Like the experience is so quickly finished. 1459 01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:24,360 You know you you you you put your stuff in the in the car in 1460 01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:27,960 the morning you go out you take a ski lift up and and boom few 1461 01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:30,560 seconds later you're down on the ground and then you keep on 1462 01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:32,520 doing that over and over again and then you come back to your 1463 01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:33,760 home. It's it's not like like a 1464 01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:37,160 paralytic expedition where like OK you put your car you put your 1465 01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:40,280 stuff in the car, you go out there you fly for a while. 1466 01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:43,840 So you you you have experiences to talk about in the end of the 1467 01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:47,520 day when you sit after a long cross country flight or you know 1468 01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:50,360 in in in. I mean actual is kind of similar 1469 01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:53,040 where where you finish the day and come back to your own home. 1470 01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:56,840 But I think like the the romance of a cross country flight is 1471 01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:01,360 that it gives you so much to talk about that that is 1472 01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:03,560 basically what kind of keeps it going. 1473 01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:07,400 And that is why storytelling is a bit more easier in the world 1474 01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:10,160 of paralleling than it will be in speed flying in my opinion. 1475 01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:13,800 Because I like, I don't want to lose out altitude so quickly. 1476 01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:15,720 You know, it's like I want to be in the air. 1477 01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:17,960 So like this line just got so much easier now. 1478 01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:20,520 I don't, I don't, I don't feel my brain telling me that, Oh my 1479 01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:22,120 God, well I'm getting myself into. 1480 01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:25,880 Do you think it's it's like one of these reasons why it's kind 1481 01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:28,440 of like, you know, skimming, getting out of people's leg 1482 01:23:28,480 --> 01:23:30,400 after a while? I think so, yeah. 1483 01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:33,440 But you know it's at the same time it it's not for everyone. 1484 01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:35,800 It doesn't have to be for everyone's feet flying and I'm 1485 01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:39,000 glad it's not for everyone. If if every paragliding pilot 1486 01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:41,640 will see fly, it will be banned everywhere I think. 1487 01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:45,880 I remember that, and you can just invite anyone of colons. 1488 01:23:46,200 --> 01:23:49,400 A rescue service would get every single paraglider fighter at 11 1489 01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:53,440 meter on the end. I mean that that's the nice 1490 01:23:53,440 --> 01:23:55,560 thing about the flying, right? There's so many different 1491 01:23:55,560 --> 01:23:59,440 disciplines and you start with something and you eventually 1492 01:23:59,440 --> 01:24:02,920 move to something else because your interest shift or maybe 1493 01:24:02,920 --> 01:24:06,880 your possibilities, your time, whatever, that's totally fine. 1494 01:24:06,880 --> 01:24:10,560 You know I see a lot of pilots here that that have been keen 1495 01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:14,760 pilots in in different disciplines and sooner or later 1496 01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:19,600 they what they end up doing is is I can fly and they you know, 1497 01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:21,600 they run up. They fly down because they 1498 01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:26,040 become dads and they have family and and more busy at their job 1499 01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:31,600 and but yeah so they, you know they try to still stay fit and 1500 01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:35,000 do sport and at the same time they combine with paragliding so 1501 01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:38,760 they end up doing hide and fly. Yeah, that's the nice thing 1502 01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:42,200 about our sport, It's it's got something to offer for everyone. 1503 01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:45,280 For sure, for sure. And I think you know before I 1504 01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:49,360 let you go for the day many one of the like if you can share the 1505 01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:52,880 experiences like how does yeah I mean if our only sins can get a 1506 01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:55,720 glimpse of how does life look like in life of test pilot who's 1507 01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:57,920 who's getting access to all these brand new boys every time. 1508 01:24:58,440 --> 01:25:02,360 It's exciting. It's, it's cool always, you 1509 01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:05,520 know, like especially with with the Parakites now being being 1510 01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:08,280 able to be part of that revolution. 1511 01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:12,600 Yeah Especially because I'm you know I'm, I'm always interested 1512 01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:17,080 in in those new things and and the possibility you get with 1513 01:25:17,280 --> 01:25:21,400 with those new things. Yeah, I I'm, I'm super stoked. 1514 01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:26,760 I'm part of the flare team and yeah we are looking for forward 1515 01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:32,200 where this is all leading us and and bringing us you know where 1516 01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:35,760 where this, this flare system has potential or not. 1517 01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:38,880 Yeah it's we we've only just started the journey. 1518 01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:42,680 Yeah, I think there's there's many more great wings to come, 1519 01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:45,800 hopefully from from Flair, yeah. Wow. 1520 01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:51,120 Wisdom and excitement all summed up in in in one sentences is 1521 01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:55,000 what I can see you know in in time to come from from the 1522 01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:58,240 Blando fair. But Barry, Colin, thank you for 1523 01:25:58,240 --> 01:26:01,760 such an honest and you know absolute pure of an interview 1524 01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:04,320 from the bottom of your heart. I I think we have successfully 1525 01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:07,320 managed to put across to our audiences why they should stay 1526 01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:12,360 excited and and like what's coming and basically more fun in 1527 01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:14,520 in our in our sports of paralleling and speed flying. 1528 01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:16,760 So fingers crossed. Keep up the good work you seem 1529 01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:19,960 to be doing at life by making money out of this full time. 1530 01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:23,560 So definitely there's something right I'm kind of wait to see 1531 01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:26,120 what's what what comes from Goflare Global. 1532 01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:28,080 Thank you. Very much thanks for inviting me 1533 01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:30,600 and I hope to meet you someday somewhere. 1534 01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:34,360 And I hope to see your smile one day when you flew a line. 1535 01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:36,360 For life is for sure.