1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,880 It's not about overcoming your fear. 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,120 It's about embracing it, figuring out what's going on and 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,760 then making yourself actually strong. 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,640 Now I see this in every sport I do. 5 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,960 It's like the guys, you show up and they're like, I'm going to 6 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,200 overcome my fear. I'm going to huck my carcass, 7 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:15,680 whatever. They don't last very long. 8 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,960 They either get killed or they wash out because they are 9 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,000 actually afraid. You're an idiot if you're not 10 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,600 afraid. I believe risk taking is, is 11 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,160 individual and super important. Try, listen, learn, adapt, do 12 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,120 better. That's the kind of mantra that I 13 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,160 fighter pilots call it an ODA loop. 14 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,800 Observe, Orient, decide, act. And you know, my, my personal 1 15 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:36,360 is like, you got to try. That's the first thing. 16 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,680 Nothing cool happens if you don't take that little risk and 17 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,160 try and then you got to get out there. 18 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:42,920 You got to listen. Like, what's the world telling 19 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,600 me? What's shaking with like what is 20 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,840 really going on? Not the bullshit in my brain. 21 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:48,920 What's really going on? You know, you got to listen to 22 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,520 it, figure it out, then you got to learn these things will 23 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,360 happen and have we built the capacity to manage them or not. 24 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,320 You know, you're going to get sucked into a qnem if you've if 25 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,120 you are not paying attention to the environment around you, this 26 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,640 will happen. There's this is qnems are you 27 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,480 know, it's just part of flying. They're out there. 28 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,040 But if you've developed the tools to pay attention to your 29 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,400 environment and look at your phone, now you're developing 30 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,920 capacity to avoid this situation, not just go. 31 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,960 Little God, this is such a big honor for me to host you on 32 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,280 Paragliding Atlas. Welcome to the show, Sir. 33 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,360 Thank you for having me. And it's an honor to be here. 34 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:35,880 You're you're the next big thing, right? 35 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,760 So it's going to be great. Looking forward to it. 36 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,720 Before we got rolling here, we had yeah, it's good. 37 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:43,360 It'll be good. Something will happen. 38 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,880 And before we get going here, just I enjoyed our conversation 39 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,760 leading up to this as well. And you're trying to do 40 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,520 something cool and. And I admire that. 41 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,160 So yeah, looking forward to. It well, you happen to be one of 42 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,920 the biggest inspiration behind that dream and you know, this 43 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,000 also is first topic that I wanted to dive into Inspiration 44 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,520 is something that we all seek when we start visualizing our 45 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,360 goals I mean, of course goal setting is one thing finding 46 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,840 meaning, but getting inspired is the one which sets the ball 47 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,520 rolling. So my my dilemma, which I'm sure 48 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,800 a lot of other pilots will also relate to, is that when you 49 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,600 start looking for inspiration, is there a blueprint to finding 50 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,400 the correct inspiration? Because of course, I can get 51 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,240 inspired by some of the top pilots in the sport. 52 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,280 And for example, if I want to be an Olympian, it's like get 53 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,480 inspired by an Olympian, start training like an Olympian, start 54 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,720 acting, behaving like an Olympian, and then you become an 55 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,640 Olympian. Paragliding on the other hand, 56 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,960 especially, you know, some of the few competitions we have 57 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,880 pilots who have a huge time where they've put in their 58 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,240 effort and resources, which we do not see yet. 59 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,880 The inspiration is just like it is in other sports as well. 60 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:53,200 While getting inspired, what is the way to do it safely? 61 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,000 Oh, that's about 10 questions at 1:00. 62 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,160 So I don't know where to take that one. 63 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,800 I mean, I would say that that the first thing to ask ourselves 64 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,120 maybe is, is what do you actually want to do? 65 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,120 Like, and for me, that question is, is what is the coolest thing 66 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,120 I can do with my life? What would be the ultimate 67 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,680 thing? And it changes. 68 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,120 You know, when I was, I left a pretty successful career in 69 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,960 publishing and research and other media PR stuff when I was 70 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,200 in my late 20s to chase this dream of being an adventure 71 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,400 sports athlete because that was the coolest thing I could 72 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,440 imagine doing. And I was like, I'm willing to 73 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,720 go back to waiting tables, to building houses. 74 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,920 These are all careers things I've done to make money, you 75 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,920 know, and, and like, I'm a hell of a dishwasher if it comes 76 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,480 right down to it. But I am going to do these 77 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,360 sports to the best of my ability. 78 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,800 And if I have to wash dishes or whatever to do it, then I'm 79 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,760 going to do it. That is the coolest thing I can 80 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,200 see doing with my life. That's what I want to pursue. 81 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,280 So you, you have to answer that question and, and what, and it's 82 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,000 not always sports. Some people it is, but a lot of 83 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,920 what I do is also the business side of things and a lot of 84 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,120 writing and a lot of filmmaking and a lot of things that are not 85 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,840 doing the sports. The, you know, the pyramid, the 86 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,640 sports are at the top, but the 90% of it is not doing the 87 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,280 sport. It's all the other stuff. 88 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,720 So that I think that inspiration is to answer that question for 89 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,080 yourself. And you know, it, it, it's 90 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,800 conflicting and you have to sit there in that conflict and in 91 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,200 that lack of knowledge and, and try things out and go sideways. 92 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,680 You know, I've, I've tried to be a pro athlete in my early 20s. 93 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,000 I was a sponsored kayaker. And so I was kayaking, you know, 94 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,480 getting free boats of the occasional ticket or something 95 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,800 to go kayaking. And I couldn't make a living at 96 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,640 it. And I was also competing at a 97 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,480 high level in sport climbing comps. 98 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,880 But all I could get for that was a free pair of shoes and the odd 99 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,760 ticket. So I couldn't figure out a way 100 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,880 to make it work. But by going through this sort 101 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,880 of publishing PR world, I then understood how to make it work 102 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,840 as a, as a pro athlete later. So it wasn't a linear path and I 103 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:51,320 don't think it is for anybody else. 104 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,720 But that basic question is, what's the coolest life I can 105 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,080 imagine living that you really feel? 106 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,160 It's not just about like, do you know, whatever it is for you 107 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,520 that everybody always has like, you know, eating ice cream, 108 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,880 sitting in bed, It's like that's like whatever it is, but it's 109 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,720 not actually, it's something you got to actually feel that like 110 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,840 has beauty to you and then and then to go and try it and you 111 00:05:10,840 --> 00:05:13,040 have to figure that out. Nobody else knows that. 112 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,280 You know, I quit my job to be a professional icicle climber, 113 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:17,280 right? Let's remember this. 114 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,120 What a ridiculous job description because I was on TV 115 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,600 for the X Games that I could turn that into media impressions 116 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:23,800 and money. Everybody's like, you're an 117 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,120 idiot. That won't work. 118 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:28,160 Everybody said that to me and you know, I've done it. 119 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,400 And so it's not what everybody else says you can't or can't do, 120 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,960 but and how much are you willing to sacrifice, you know? 121 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,000 Dude, you know, this actually helps me clarify my question 122 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,160 more, which is like when you are chasing your like you've set a 123 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,000 goal and you're chasing that goal. 124 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,400 Is there there is a fine line between pushing too hard because 125 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,640 we naturally do want to excel at things that we, we like or we, 126 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,800 we plan to and then pushing too hard and going into self 127 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,520 destruction mode or destructive pushing is very difficult to 128 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,840 identify because hard work means more results and influential 129 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:06,760 sports like hockey, soccer or running. 130 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,200 It's like, you know, just just go out there and, and do the 131 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,120 10,000 hour theory or something. But when it comes to chasing 132 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,640 adventure sports, pushing too hard is a bit, it has to be 133 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,280 pulled back at some point. So identifying that your 134 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,280 inspiration isn't causing you to switch off and forget where the 135 00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:26,600 fine line is drawn. How do you answer? 136 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,760 How do you navigate that kind of a dilemma as an athlete who was 137 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,760 growing up in these sports? I think the first thing is to 138 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:37,640 have a realistic appreciation of both how dangerous the sport is. 139 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,120 And this is an idea in statistics called the base rate. 140 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:43,160 So this is like just the base rate of accidents. 141 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,480 And everybody says, well, I'm not the same as the base rate, 142 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,840 but everybody kind of is. I'm sorry. 143 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:48,960 It's like, well, I do it differently. 144 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,920 I got it off. I got the secret sauce, which is 145 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,400 almost universally not very accurate. 146 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,600 So how dangerous is this? And given that, how do I want to 147 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:00,600 proceed in this sport? And that is a, you know, that's 148 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,080 a it's, it's an individual thing what somebody is doing in at a 149 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,520 high level competition or in a long XC flight where it really 150 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,320 matters, you know, our world record chase or whatever. 151 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,520 You know, as long as you have that knowledge that things don't 152 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,120 go well pretty regularly in these high risk sports and 153 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,360 you're making decisions with that knowledge, then things 154 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,640 generally get better. So the another one that is 155 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,920 really critical, another tool you can use is, is ask if you're 156 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,560 making the decision off of probability or off of 157 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,680 consequence. And what I've seen in a lot of 158 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,040 sports and a lot of industrial settings, I do a lot of 159 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,200 industrial risk work and so on as well. 160 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,560 It's another part of my life. But the the amateurs tend to 161 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,520 make decisions based off of probability. 162 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,040 So this will probably work out and it probably will. 163 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,040 But if you're a professional, you're going to be exposed 164 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,000 hundreds of thousands of times to that individual hazard. 165 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,040 So if you're contemplating, you know, should I Chuck this turn 166 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,840 really close to the hillside, you'll probably get away with 167 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:56,920 it. But if you're thinking in terms 168 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:00,400 of consequence and you know that you're going to do that a lot 169 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,600 and start hitting those little probability numbers, and then 170 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,480 maybe you want to give yourself an extra 10 meters in case you 171 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:08,680 take a big deflation, you don't hit the hillside. 172 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,520 So I tend to think in high risk, high hazard environments in 173 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,080 terms of consequence rather than probability. 174 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,560 And can I increase my distance from that consequence, whatever 175 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,680 it is? So if I'm coming into a Ridge, 176 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,280 do I need to be on full bar or could I go back to feeling the 177 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,280 glider and slowing it down? You know, is it might save me 5 178 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,920 seconds or 10 seconds if I stay on full bar, but I can decrease 179 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,720 the consequence and severity, then I will. 180 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,640 So thinking in terms of consequence rather than 181 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,559 probability. Probability is for people who 182 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:40,840 are going to do something a few times. 183 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,720 If you're going to be a professional, you need to think 184 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,800 in terms of that consequence and that number is going to hit. 185 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,280 Everybody I know who's flown for more than 10 or 15 years, you 186 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,040 know, has crashed, and we all are going to do it. 187 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,240 So right here, right now, your job is to avoid that 188 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:59,160 consequence. And, you know, that's one way to 189 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,480 think about it. And then another tool that I 190 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,840 think is really useful is to build capacity. 191 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,640 And, you know, in risk management for a long time, it 192 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,320 was here's the problem and here's the mitigation, and we're 193 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,280 done. But most of our accidents don't 194 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,360 come within this really defined box of, you know, hazarded 195 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:17,280 mitigation. The serious ones tend to come 196 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:19,800 when something unusual starts happening or suddenly we haven't 197 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,000 seen before. And so how do you deal with 198 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,720 that? And the answer is capacity. 199 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,520 That's really, really helpful. So, you know, in paragliding, we 200 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,840 do things like take a SIV clinics so that we have more 201 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,200 capacity when our wings blow up. But you can develop capacity a 202 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,680 lot of ways. And I think that's one of the 203 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,440 main reasons that I've survived as long as I have is I've 204 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,640 approached all the risk sports I've done and I didn't have a 205 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,080 term for it. I just did it this way as trying 206 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,080 to build capacity. So in kayaking, you know, white 207 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,760 water kayaking, my friend would flip me over while we're 208 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,440 standing in a lake and then he'd try to hold the boat upside 209 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,400 down, right. And if I did manage to roll, 210 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:58,440 roll up, he'd hit me in the head, you know, a few times and 211 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,000 try to knock me back over. That's this sounds insane, but I 212 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,240 don't miss roles paddling to this day. 213 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,600 And that was 40 years ago when I learned how to roll like that. 214 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,840 I roll up no matter what. And in paragliding, I did some 215 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,760 really unusual things like I practice crashing people like 216 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,120 you're an idiot, you know, but I went into a gymnastics facility, 217 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,560 have mats on the floor, and I told the gymnast guy who 218 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:24,040 happened to be a rock climbing friend of mine who's a gymnast 219 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:25,400 coach. I was like, how do you, how do 220 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,920 you teach gymnasts to crash? Because gymnasts crash all the 221 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,400 time, right? They, they do stud soft bars and 222 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,360 things. They get lost in the air and how 223 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,480 do they survive that? And he, he was like, OK, you got 224 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,000 to translate this vertical momentum into horizontal 225 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,280 momentum. And here's how you do that. 226 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,800 And so I'm in this gymnastics facility, jumping off this bar 227 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,400 that's like 3 meters above the ground, wearing my paragliding 228 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,520 harness and learning how to crash. 229 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,440 And when I crashed, you know, I got banged up, but I didn't 230 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,520 break everything. And that's probably because I 231 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,080 had developed capacity to deal with that. 232 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,720 So these are these are some, these are some tools. 233 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,640 It's like think first about consequences and not just 234 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,800 probability and then develop capacity so that when you still 235 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,640 get it wrong, you could develop, you can have better outcomes. 236 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,440 So those are some tools. Does that answer your question? 237 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,280 100% I think you're saying mitigating the risk in the most 238 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,680 effective manner, which is making peace in your head is the 239 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:25,760 way to navigate risk versus reward spectrum is? 240 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,320 You're so you're out there, original customers, you're out 241 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,800 there and you're thinking, you know, I'm in this competition 242 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,120 and I, and I'm going to do this glide into the Lilo and, and, 243 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,360 you know, if my glider blows up, you know, I could go in, But if 244 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,520 I, if I pull it off, I'll win. And for me in that situation, 245 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,680 the usual, you know, first of all, if I blow my glider up, I'm 246 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:47,120 not going to have my glider and that's going to be a pain in the 247 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:48,600 ass. I'm going to have to call up gin 248 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,160 and say really sorry, you know, can I get out of the glider or 249 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:53,920 whatever, and then I might get killed. 250 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,840 And it's not about any one day, you know, it's if you're making 251 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,720 that, if you make decisions like that, you're not going to live 252 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,560 very long. But if I look at the consequence 253 00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:06,240 and I'm like, OK, well, I could blow up and I could crash into 254 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,800 those rocks and I don't have it. I'm going to do three more 255 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,040 circles in this thermal and then glide. 256 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:13,760 And if I don't win, I'm OK with that. 257 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,400 I made the decision that having a functional glider and a 258 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,920 functional spine was more important than winning that day. 259 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,840 And when you back up just a little bit, of course, that's 260 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,040 really obvious, right? But if you're thinking about 261 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,360 probability, it's like, I could probably get away with this. 262 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,920 Then you don't make good decisions and you don't balance 263 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,800 that risk and reward at all. And then, you know, if you've 264 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,320 still decided to go for it, you take a big frontal and you've 265 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,360 practiced that 50 times in an SIV, then you can recover the 266 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,640 glider fast or maybe you crash into the trees, but you don't 267 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,600 break yourself. So in that situation, knowing 268 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,040 your goal is to survive that day, that's your first goal. 269 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,200 Like if you land at the end of the day and you survived, you 270 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,040 could be frustrated, but at least you survived. 271 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,400 But if you're way out those consequences and are thinking 272 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,400 about probability and and don't have capacity, then you're going 273 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,320 to get bad results. I think this does make it a bit 274 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,760 more clear for me. But what I'm really curious is I 275 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,320 was racing in Macedonia with 150 other triple C's and I was on a 276 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,840 2 liner C. I'd just gone to two liner C's, 277 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,520 full bar house thermal. You know, we're, we're racing 278 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,920 towards the first turn point and I'm kind of shitting my pants 279 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,360 because it's my first few days on A2 liner C, whereas everybody 280 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,920 else around me is like 500 hour plus pilot at least. 281 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,640 But there's a bit of a herd mentality coming around me that 282 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,880 hey, all the gliders are sailing smoothly. 283 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,280 There's no visible turbulence in the air. 284 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:32,920 So the probability, I'm not talking about capacity here, 285 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,560 this is this was a bit stupid on my part. 286 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:38,560 The probability of me going down is also almost negligible 287 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:40,720 because everybody else is handling it well, regardless of 288 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,000 how much effort they have put in versus what I have put in. 289 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,920 And yes, what happens, I get a full frontal right away. 290 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:47,600 Of course, I come come off the bar. 291 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,080 You know, thankfully I had the capacity to deal with full 292 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,760 frontals and then I pull back. I was not an official part of 293 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,440 that competition, so that's why it was easy for me to pull back. 294 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,120 But what I do see is that regardless of how much ever 295 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,360 practice I do, something in me will say that hey man, 150 other 296 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,560 humans are going out and pushing it and you are no less than 297 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:10,160 anyone of them. So just go back on full bar as 298 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,000 soon as possible. So when your gut knows that 299 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,400 you're doing something out of your comfort zone, yet the herd 300 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,160 mentality is trying to, you know, push you towards it, is 301 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,280 there a way that you can be very honest with yourself and say 302 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,000 that you don't want live to fly another day? 303 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,960 Or is this something that only wisdom and age will brilliant to 304 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,640 you as the time passes? You know, it's interesting, when 305 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,240 I was younger, I always wanted to be more brave to, to push 306 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,400 harder and, and be more comfortable, you know, like the 307 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,960 other kids or, or whatever would just do something and I'd be 308 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,920 like, no, I can't do that, you know, and, and I would build up 309 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,880 to it. So in your example right there, 310 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,480 I would say that you'd, if you're feeling that fear just 311 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,760 because you're on full bar, you have not built the capacity to 312 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,840 handle that situation well and you probably should be afraid. 313 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,920 And if you're feeling that, I guarantee you that the person 314 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,560 who's leading that day, the 10,000 hour pilot who who's a 315 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,400 test pilot, he is not afraid. If you're feeling fear in that 316 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,640 environment, a little bit of nervousness is fine. 317 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:10,960 You know, that keys you up, gets your central nervous system 318 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,800 going, all good, a little bits good. 319 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,680 But if you're like honestly having fear, I have learned over 320 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,320 decades of high risk sports that if I am feeling fear, bluntly, 321 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,640 I'm fucking up and I need to step back, figure out why I'm 322 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,880 feeling that fear or detune the situation. 323 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,600 You know, when I was 16 or 17 and paddling very serious first 324 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,680 descents in Canada, I used to throw up in the eddies at the 325 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,120 top because I was so afraid to run the drop right. 326 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,800 And I paddled horribly as a result. 327 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,600 You cannot paddle or fly a paraglider well when you're 328 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,280 afraid. So if you feel that fear, 329 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,480 doesn't matter what 150 people are doing. 330 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,120 If you feel that fear, you know, if you get off, if you, if you 331 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,040 get off the bar and you're flying along and you're, you're 332 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:53,400 like, well, this is really boring. 333 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,480 I could be on a little bit of bar and you want to be on a 334 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,320 little bit of bar, great. Get on a bit of bar. 335 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,720 You're not even in the competition. 336 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,640 Doesn't matter at all. But you know, what matters is 337 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,560 what's going on on you. So get off off the bar and when 338 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,000 I started paddling drops or flying in conditions that I 339 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,080 wanted to fly in, then I performed way better. 340 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,720 And that meant stepping back and not paddling like class 5 first 341 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:16,040 descents in the middle of nowhere. 342 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,040 But you know, paddling class 3 or 4 water and developing 343 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,440 capacity in that water to hit any line I wanted perfectly. 344 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,600 And I have, I am not afraid. I'm paying attention on a river 345 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,480 today or in the air. But if I'm feeling afraid, man, 346 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,400 that's a sign that I need to back up, slow it down. 347 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,320 It's not about overcoming your fear. 348 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,600 It's about embracing it, figuring out what's going on and 349 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,280 then making yourself actually strong. 350 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,080 And I see this in every sport I do. 351 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,440 It's like the guys, you show up and they're like, I'm going to 352 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,640 overcome my fear. I'm going to huck my carcass, 353 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,120 whatever. They don't last very long. 354 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,400 They either get killed or they wash out because they are 355 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,480 actually afraid. You're an idiot if you're not 356 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,560 afraid flying a paragon or in some conditions, you know you 357 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,360 should be. I'm sorry, but if you don't feel 358 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,040 that you're not going to last long, you're going to hit the 359 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,000 hillside. You know, if you've got that 360 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,520 fear, then ask why and and back it up until you don't have it 361 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,599 and progress when you want it. You know, I remember I won the 362 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,560 US Paragonic nationalist what year we're all flying toward 363 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,960 goal and I was down by like 6 points or something. 364 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,560 I knew I had to win the day by especially against two other 365 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,640 people on that meet. And we're flying along and it's 366 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,200 fairly rough and I'm on full bar and I blew my glider up. 367 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,920 I did not care whatsoever. I was back on that bar within 15 368 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,120 seconds. Yeah, that was, I wanted it and 369 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:35,880 I was going for it and I was high. 370 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,200 Whereas if I were racing in fear, I never would have won 371 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,920 that comp. And I knew I could deal with 372 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,560 that glider blowing up. And it blew up. 373 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,800 I was just annoyed that I was going to lose 50 meters. 374 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:49,040 I'm like, I didn't care. Like got the glider back on the 375 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:50,800 park. That's where you want to be. 376 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,360 The funny thing about that is that one of the guys, as I was 377 00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:57,600 racing against watch that happen and he watched me blow up and 378 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,800 then he later I saw him at the ward ceremony, wherever and and 379 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,800 his exact it was Bill, Bill Belcourt, another well known US 380 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,720 pilot, and he said, if you want it that bad, man, I'm just going 381 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,160 to give it to you because it was clear you were going to go. 382 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,200 So internally I was at peace with it. 383 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,480 And also as a competitive tactic, it was very clear that I 384 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,760 was, I was going to go that hard, but I was definitely not 385 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,000 afraid. Like you can't be existing in 386 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,800 that space. That's a really long answer to a 387 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,200 short question. But if you have fear about 388 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,440 anything, embrace it. You know, it's normal to be a 389 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,480 little bit worried or to have a bit of a bump in your, you know, 390 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,520 when I get up in front of 1000 people to talk, it's something 391 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,760 man, I'm ready. But I've prepared well and I'm 392 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,520 solid and I'm going to go do it. And if I'm feeling that on a 393 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,360 paragliding launch or below a big climb or at the top of a big 394 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,280 drop, not in like I'm out, I don't want feel that way. 395 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,400 Quickly, before we move on to the next one, fear of unknown is 396 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,400 very made. That can be defined because of 397 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,560 course known fears where to put in the effort, where to put in 398 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,760 the hours you know round handle airtime. 399 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,000 Everything else answers that. But yeah, I think, I mean I 400 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,440 think unknown was sorry. Go ahead. 401 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:07,000 Turbulence, clear air, which you can't see, you know? 402 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,680 Yeah. Like, for example, yesterday I 403 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,320 was flying at my local site, flown there hundreds of time, 404 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,760 came into land. My ground speeds was 53. 405 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,240 That was weird. Never happened to me before on 406 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,440 that site. And I ended up landing hard on 407 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,360 my left hand, which kind of had to be bandaged up for next 24 408 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:25,240 hours or something. So now I'm kind of like, you 409 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,800 know, if it's too thermic, should I even give this a try 410 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:29,680 with a comparison which is being 7 kilograms. 411 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,680 So, fear of unknown, how do how do I navigate my way around 412 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:35,120 that? Well, I think the fear of the 413 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:38,640 unknown is just the fear of the things that you don't know to 414 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,000 fear yet, you know, And so you could talk to other people about 415 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,320 it. But for me, when I have a 416 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,480 situation like that, the debrief is really important. 417 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,440 And you know, there's there's a so for how I would approach 418 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:51,520 this. And this may not work for 419 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,520 probably, I guarantee it won't work for everybody. 420 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,480 But when I have an incident like that and they become further and 421 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,240 further apart over my decades of doing these sports, but I still 422 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,720 have them, I would go, OK, So what happened there? 423 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,760 Did I, was I paying attention or the wind socks pointing the 424 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,080 other direction the whole time I came in to land and I just 425 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,440 didn't look at them. Was my situational awareness, 426 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,600 you know, did my scan fall apart? 427 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,120 Like why did what happened? So I just I'd ask you that 428 00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:14,880 question. Why? 429 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,040 Why did that happen? For just collecting the data 430 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,880 points, analyzing them and then trying whatever it is to not 431 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:25,280 repeat that unknown factors which you missed when the first 432 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:27,520 incident happened. But did you actually? 433 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,000 So this is a philosophical, it flawed conversation, but did you 434 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,680 actually miss any factors? Were the windsock's pointing 435 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,800 completely like what happened? Winsock just doesn't exist in in 436 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,040 that it's a soccer field. And but the approach that I made 437 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,320 was the usual approach, but the sink was substantial and the 438 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,680 wind was probably from the tail. And by the time I realized its 439 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,720 tail, it was too low to turn. So then I was like, I just have 440 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,080 to go in and slide. So it was an XR7 and it just had 441 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,920 its own momentum. So I just hit the deck pretty 442 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,880 hard. So this is the place you 443 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,400 normally land. Every day, you know there's no 444 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,600 wind sock. No, No. 445 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,280 So this is the first thing. It's like, OK, this is a place 446 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:05,600 you land every day. Why do you guys have a wind 447 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,960 sock? You should have three or four of 448 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,000 them. It's a soccer field. 449 00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:13,080 It's like this is so this is not no, and this is like this 450 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,320 happens when you don't know what direction the wind and and you 451 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,800 know, strong and variable day. You could have huge thermals 452 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,680 ripping off that will change things. 453 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,320 But if you're going to lad here regularly, my man, you got to 454 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,560 get some wood socks. Like that's so to me, this is 455 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,600 like a lesson in in what happened is never very 456 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,320 interesting to me when so when a pilot says, oh, I crashed going 457 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,320 downwind, like OK, great, crashed going downwind. 458 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,120 Awesome. What you know, this is what 459 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:39,120 happened. Why, that's the more interesting 460 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:41,760 question. And sometimes you just get 461 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,240 fantastic luck in paragliding and sometimes you get bad luck. 462 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,480 But in this situation, it's like, quite clearly, you guys 463 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,600 need some wind socks if you're going to land there a lot. 464 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,720 And then the other thing is, you know, if it's an unknown place, 465 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,080 you, you had an idea in your mind of, of what was going to be 466 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,480 happening in that, in that place maybe. 467 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,720 But the whole goal is to adapt to the environment. 468 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,680 And it's a very, it's a very, there's the, the Buddhists call 469 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,360 this like beginner's mind or whatever, but you have all these 470 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:09,440 preconceptions. And I find that the pilots who 471 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,040 tend to last longer and have less an incidence of the ones 472 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,120 that are not operating off of, you know, they have a plan, they 473 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,360 have a goal, they're doing something, but they're also 474 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,640 very, very attuned to the environment and change fast, 475 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,960 whether it's in a competition. The person is like, wow, the day 476 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:24,760 just changed. We're not climbing at six meters 477 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,680 a second now we're climbing at 1m a second. 478 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,200 I need to slow down. Whereas people are hammering and 479 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,720 don't take that information on board. 480 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,920 They dirt and they're like, what happened? 481 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,880 And, you know, so the digging into the why of something and 482 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,960 what is going on there versus what you thought was going on, 483 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:41,400 that's much more interesting to me. 484 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,080 So in your situation, I you should have fear, like that's an 485 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,080 incident. You should have some, you hurt 486 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,720 your hand. Like this is a really good call. 487 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,240 Like something didn't work the way you thought it was. 488 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,880 And it's not the world's fault. The world's not going to change. 489 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,360 So how are you going to change so that you have less of these 490 00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:59,320 in the future? And I think that's a much more 491 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,080 interesting question. OK, just a very small follow up 492 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,720 because the wing sock is, you know, very obvious, like the 493 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,720 listeners must be thinking what a stupid person doesn't just 494 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,720 allow city doesn't allow us to put wing socks there. 495 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,520 So it's like either you let you give up on flying in this 496 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,240 beautiful spot over Oslo or you deal with this unknown that can 497 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,720 take you by surprise at some time. 498 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,600 So I'm like this unknown is manageable for me. 499 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,760 Like okay it was a sprained hand, could have been a back. 500 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,480 I'm not denying that it is still stupid. 501 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,160 But giving up on the flight because of that unknown was too 502 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,120 big of a trade off for me. So that's why I went ahead. 503 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,440 Now should I look back at this and say that hey buddy this is a 504 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,880 warning call, Do not repeat such unknowns again. 505 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:46,840 Or it's like life is full of these anyways, Like how many 506 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,800 variables can you really try and control? 507 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,720 I I, I to me in your situation again, I would go deeper. 508 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,040 I wouldn't just go after accept the shitty risk. 509 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,760 It's like, OK, can the first pilot who lands put up a wind 510 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,560 sock, a temporary one or hold up a string or something? 511 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:01,920 Right. You're you're not going to put 512 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,760 up a flag. Sounds like that. 513 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,080 They don't want you to do that. But ask them, Hey, can we put up 514 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,800 a, a streamer on this? You know, it's the city doesn't 515 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,760 own the whole area. It's like, I'm sure there's some 516 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,720 place you can hang a streamer in a tree or something that will 517 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:16,520 give you that. Like this is not a very good 518 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,080 excuse. So I'm sorry, my friend, there 519 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:21,120 was a way you could get some vindication. 520 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,800 But even all of the things being equal, how could you change the 521 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,560 outcome when there's absolutely no signs in the landing zone? 522 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,200 Is this a Ridge soaring site? What is it? 523 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,880 It's a small mountain and then the landing zone is a soccer 524 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,720 field right by the sight of it basically. 525 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:35,280 OK. And you? 526 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,080 Use a kind of thermic. OK, great. 527 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,920 So when you come into it, it's a mountain, even a small mountain. 528 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,760 So you can come in with an extra 30 meters to do a circle in the 529 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,160 LZ and that'll tell you right away what the wind speed is 530 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,000 doing. Like that's what you do on cross 531 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,880 country flights in the mountains when you, it's not obvious, you 532 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,040 can do a 360. And if it still isn't obvious 533 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,040 and it doesn't matter because of the winds, 5K an hour, whatever 534 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,760 direction you deal with it. So you, there's multiple ways to 535 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,520 solve this, but accepting the risk is not really the way 536 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:01,680 forward. If you just like, oh, I'm going 537 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,040 to accept the unknown. The deeper lesson is here, when 538 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,040 I land in places that I can't, that I don't have indicators, I 539 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,320 need to allow enough altitude to do a 360 and figure out what 540 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,400 that wind is. That's a deeper lesson that you 541 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,920 can then put into your hierarchy or OK, now I've, I've done that 542 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,720 and I've still, you know, the thermal from hell has kicked off 543 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,240 right in front of me and, and has been training all the air 544 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,680 behind it. Now I'm doing, you know, I'm 545 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,600 coming in at 50K over the ground. 546 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,840 How am I going to land this? And you know, am I going to 547 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,360 surge it and then use some energy to, to stall it extra 548 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:36,400 hard and run it out. I can run 10 kilometers an hour. 549 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,040 Even with a, even with 20 kilos of shit on my back, I could 550 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,680 still pull that off probably for a short distance. 551 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,840 So this is still OK. Am I going to try to slide it in 552 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,320 and risk a back injury or if I have lots of good protection and 553 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,600 I can, it's a perfect field thinking it through and spending 554 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,120 a lot of time. I very seldom just accept, oh, 555 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,480 that's the risk. It's like breaking it down and 556 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,000 planning. So next time you go in there, 557 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,720 it's like, OK, if my if I'm if the ground isn't going that 558 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,880 fast, I'm going to I'm going to do an extra. 559 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,280 I'm going to take an extra wrap like landing a tandem in a 560 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,200 downwind situation and I'm going to like flare extra hard and I'm 561 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,120 going to run it out or I'm going to surge it and slide it in and 562 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:14,520 I'm going to slide on my ass. Can the grounds too rough for 563 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,960 that? I'm going to really, but again, 564 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,800 stepping back up, it's like I'm gonna do a 360 above it and try 565 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,040 to figure that out. You know, seldom does a thermal 566 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,080 pull more than 10K an hour into it. 567 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:25,960 It's, I don't think that really happens very much. 568 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,040 That'd be a rather amazing thing of the dead. 569 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,600 So again, like it's not about the fear, it's about listening 570 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,160 to it and solving the problem. Does that make sense? 571 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,840 A. 100% And I, I just realized my mistake is that I tried to 572 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,520 circle too low and then eventually I got too low to do 573 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,240 that S or box approach to figure out where the wind was coming 574 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,680 from. So the lesson learnt is that do 575 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,120 not push in areas which don't have the capacity or the the 576 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,200 buffer that you will push. Because I just kept on circling 577 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,920 until I was like it's either now or I have to land on the roof of 578 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:00,920 the houses. So. 579 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,640 Yeah. And then leave options. 580 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,240 It's like it's better to land land, probably better to land 581 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,160 downwind than hit a house. You know, most people LED 582 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,800 downwind. It's just funny or they spray 583 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,040 their thubs or whatever, right. But if you hit a house, that 584 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,440 kind of hurts. I've hit several. 585 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:19,120 Don't do that. It's not but yeah, having that 586 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,960 again, listening to that fear and it's not the unknowns. 587 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,360 It's an unknown is just something you haven't figured 588 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:25,920 out yet. You know, there's, there's base 589 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,280 rates and accidents and you got to, you got to know the base 590 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,520 rates because you're, those are that's really important and, and 591 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,880 everything that we do, but also then thinking about it, most of 592 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,120 the flying that I do is not on my paraglider. 593 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,960 It's while I'm out, you know, I'm playing soccer with my kids 594 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,240 in the field across the street and I'm feeling that wind And 595 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,360 it's like, when did it switch? When did it go adabatic? 596 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:47,080 When did it go catabatic? There's a Canyon. 597 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,600 There's two canyons right above my house. 598 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,560 They switch, you know, and I land in that field all the time. 599 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,200 And so I'm learning the whole time I'm out in these 600 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,480 environments, learning and learning and learning. 601 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,360 And that has applicability for ski touring, that has 602 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:03,280 understanding instability. Every, every, you're just the 603 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,800 more we know about the natural environment, the better we can 604 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,360 perform there. So most of my learning doesn't 605 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,960 come from doing the sport necessarily, It comes from being 606 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,400 attuned to the world as much as I can, just walking around. 607 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,160 Indeed, and I think when when it comes to learning, I quickly 608 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,240 want to hit upon the topic of risk assessment because 609 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,120 obviously all of us have our own way to decode how risky a 610 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:28,120 situation is. And that is based on the 611 00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:31,960 perception from our experiences, from what we consume. 612 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,200 And social media is easy to blame here because it puts all 613 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,440 sorts of things out there. But if we consume, or I mean, 614 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,080 we, we barely can choose what we consume because, you know, 615 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,440 algorithms feed us all sorts of exciting things to play with our 616 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,160 brains so that we stay on them. Are we subconsciously reducing 617 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,000 our risk assessment by seeing radical things being normalized 618 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,080 on platforms which host such things? 619 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,600 Probably 1 interesting I think I've seen across different 620 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,960 sports, though, is that it's one thing to watch somebody do 621 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,400 something really radical and it's another thing to stand 622 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,280 there yourself contemplating doing it. 623 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,480 You know, it's your break could go, I could do that. 624 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,280 And and then you walk out there and you're like, wow, this is 625 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,840 actually really, really dangerous and full on. 626 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,560 So I think on an individual level, if we listen to that when 627 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,160 we're out there, again, it's it's our own software that we're 628 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,040 running and we get out there and we listen to it, you know, are 629 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,680 we actually afraid or do we have even the knowledge to judge the 630 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,680 situation? I think the progression is 631 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,120 certainly accelerated radically in all the sports I do based off 632 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,960 of YouTube and, and social media. 633 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,640 You know, the things like how to launch differently or how to do 634 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,320 a trick differently, whatever it is, those are communicated so 635 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,040 fast now. You know, when I was learning, 636 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:45,120 we'd we'd get like a magazine or something and there'd be like 6 637 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,400 photos and we'd have to piece together the entire thing. 638 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,440 And now I want to learn how to like do whatever. 639 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,080 I YouTube it from my fixed, see my brakes on my car to Infinity 640 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,960 tumbling or whatever. And there's a video. 641 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,840 So I think those things can, but usually people have some sort of 642 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,480 experience when they try to step up above where they are. 643 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,960 Again, it's about you and listening to yourself and not 644 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,000 not necessarily sort of instinctual, but on some level 645 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,520 listening to that fear or lack of it and then asking, is that 646 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,200 what you actually wanted to experience? 647 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:17,760 You know, have you done some BASE jumping? 648 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,600 You said at the beginning that you wanted to be a wing seat 649 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,280 BASE jumper. Not yet, paragliding is taking 650 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,760 all my money for now. Yeah, well, I mean, I wanted to 651 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,280 be a wigsuit base jumper for a while too. 652 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,480 And so I went out there and learned how to BASE jump at a 653 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,440 very low level. But, you know, everybody talks a 654 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,720 big game. They're like, I'm going to huck 655 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,280 it and I'm going to do this. And then you get out there and 656 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,200 it's like things get toned down fast when you're looking at it 657 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,560 in the eye. So I, I think there probably is 658 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,000 some social media push toward doing more, more extreme things. 659 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,640 But what I've seen is that most of the time when people get out 660 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,960 there and get confronted with the reality of it, they slow it 661 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,480 down pretty quick. But the progression certainly 662 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,200 happens a lot faster. And it's one thing to read and 663 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,000 watch a YouTube video about how to recover a really violent 664 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,080 collapse on a on a on a on A2 lighter at speed First. 665 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,960 What do you have? Those is pretty memorable. 666 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,800 Yeah. Like, oh, yeah. 667 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,880 This is not like the test pilot. Yeah. 668 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,960 Now we, you know, it's the holy shit. 669 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,840 Things happen really fast and violently. 670 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,600 And it's like you get a little more respect for it. 671 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,920 And now you have a more accurate picture of the world. 672 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,920 And that's the goal is to just to, you know, develop our idea 673 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,280 and our model with how the world works and then test it and 674 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,480 refine it and get better at it. And then also recognize when the 675 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,600 world just isn't working the way you think it should. 676 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,840 You know, you're you're in that cop and you think it should be 677 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,400 strong and it's not and you got to slow down or whatever. 678 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,920 And yeah, so figure it out. What's? 679 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,800 My, my question came from the fact that I, I was listening to 680 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,480 cloud based with Gavin when I was growing up in the sport, 681 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,080 early, early years. And he was telling that Kregel 682 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,480 goes out and ground handles and not the ideal conditions. 683 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,200 And I was like, boom, buddy, you want to get there, go out, put 684 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,440 in the effort. So I go out there, put in the 685 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,680 effort. And this there's of course a 686 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,520 lack of knowledge which I don't have Skregel has done, has put 687 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,240 in the work and I get plucked over throned and next thing I 688 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,560 know my ACL which was already blown is just like over the top 689 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,280 and requires associate to get back on crown handing again. 690 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,760 So while this was happening, it was a lot of adrenaline in that 691 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:15,680 ground handle session, but it was No Fear. 692 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,160 So what I'm wondering is should I have had fear because I was 693 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,120 doing something which I did not have enough hours for? 694 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:29,080 Or is adrenaline tool which kind of masks the fear and does make 695 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,640 you do the stupid things because you're not nervous at that point 696 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,160 of time. I mean, adrenaline's a really 697 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,480 interesting drug. And if you study the Physiology 698 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:37,880 of it, a little bit is a good thing. 699 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,960 It wires you up, gets you go on like a little dose is good, but 700 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,480 a big dose of it, like after you broke your ACL, you probably got 701 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,160 a big dose of adrenaline. And I'm going to guess it wasn't 702 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:48,840 that fun. You're like, you felt clammy, 703 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,480 your skin felt cold and sweaty, and your heart rate went too 704 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,480 fast. And this is the usual response 705 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,000 to too much adrenaline. So adrenaline, adrenaline is 706 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,440 generally not the drug that gets people to do really stupid shit. 707 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,080 It's probably testosterone more so that gets as especially as 708 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,680 bad to do incredibly, you know, the number of women who do 709 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,280 incredibly stupid things with in any sport that I've involved 710 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,080 with is a lot lower than the number of men. 711 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,080 And I don't know if that's straight up testosterone or 712 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,560 social conditioning or whatever, but I fear that. 713 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,920 And you and, and to your credit, you were out there trying to 714 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,240 build capacity and you didn't kill yourself and you did find 715 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,040 some sort of limit when you know you did hurt yourself. 716 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,520 But it's better to hurt yourself ground handling and blowing ACL 717 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,920 than to try and be creagle and launch in ridiculous conditions 718 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,680 and kill yourself. So I would say you maybe learned 719 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,640 an unfortunate but perhaps less costly lesson by doing that. 720 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,200 And you do have to ground handle in stupid conditions. 721 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,320 That's on my list of things that I, I am, I don't feel current on 722 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:48,080 right now. Is it? 723 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,400 You know, I'm, I'm flying, I'm just not flying 350 or 500 hours 724 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,680 a year anymore. And I'm, my ground handling is 725 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,720 junk. So I'm looking out the window 726 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,640 and I'm hoping that later today we get a nice choppy, messy 727 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,120 valley flow goal and I go ground handle. 728 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,720 And I may hurt myself, but it's lots better to figure out your 729 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,159 limits doing what you did than to try and do it on the side of 730 00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:11,239 a mountain and have it go bad. Like it's kind of a failure. 731 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,199 But you actually learned something really useful there. 732 00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:15,679 So I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about that. 733 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,800 But just one thing you just said there, just back up one second 734 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,280 here. But what you just did there is 735 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,679 you didn't fail totally safely and that you got hurt. 736 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:25,480 But there's a big idea in risk management about failing safely, 737 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,440 setting up environments so you can fail, in our case in 738 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,760 paragliding, not get killed or really badly injured. 739 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,760 And you set that environment up and you built capacity, you 740 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,040 know, for the 1st 20 minutes before you hurt yourself for 741 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,000 however long it was. You learned a lot. 742 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,520 And that is going to save you one day for sure. 743 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,960 And you need to go do more of that, maybe detune it a little 744 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,639 bit, 5K less, you know, or whatever, just a little bit less 745 00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:47,480 cycle conditions or a better place. 746 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,040 I don't know how you hurt yourself, but you did fail 747 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,120 safely before you failed catastrophically and you built 748 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,280 capacity. So yes, you got injured, but you 749 00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,160 also learned a lot, and I think that's useful. 100% and because 750 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,040 that was the only thing that I was telling myself, but I was 751 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,720 like OK, my knee is getting swollen up and it's painful and 752 00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,600 whatever and I still have to pack up this gear and walk back. 753 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,120 But now at least I know what not type so. 754 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,400 Yeah. And the other 10 times you can 755 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,120 and the other 10 times you control the surge or the 756 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,920 asymmetric and got stayed on your feet. 757 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,720 Like that's pretty awesome. You learned a lot. 758 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:24,520 So maybe detune a little bit, but you've got to do that. 759 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,080 If you don't have the capacity to handle bad conditions, then 760 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,920 then, then when you beat them, you'll, you know, maybe you save 761 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,360 yourself from getting killed that day. 762 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,200 So I think that's could be and you also learned an important 763 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,600 lesson about how far is too far. So I'd look at that as a super 764 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,400 successful day. Yeah, you got injured a bit, but 765 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,880 you didn't get killed. So right on. 766 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,760 Well, thank you for boosting my confidence. 767 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,000 Well, helps a lot, yeah. Oh, it's really most people 768 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,560 don't do that. Everybody goes out and ground 769 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,760 handles in perfect conditions and it teaches them nothing. 770 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,560 It's like you put the glider up and like you get yeated off your 771 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,800 feet and slammed. You learn something and you 772 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,800 learn it in a way that's relatively safe. 773 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,680 You know, I've crashed my paraglider a few Times Now and I 774 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,440 credit both that crazy gymnastics training that I did 775 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,560 with building capacity and learning how to crash and then 776 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,760 also knowing how to control my wing and non standard 777 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,320 configurations, you know, and I for sure would have crashed so 778 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,680 much harder if I didn't, you know how to do that. 779 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,560 So yeah, you. OK, this one's probably more apt 780 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,600 for young pilots out there who are listening to us. 781 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,920 But is there a way to what do you say, navigating the 782 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:30,360 invincibility syndrome, where Estesteron versus experience is 783 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,320 like the only way forward that you know, Experience will tell 784 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,920 you how to pull back, but when you're 1617, you're like, I will 785 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,360 take on the world and I will win. 786 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,080 If anybody tells me otherwise, it's a fool. 787 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:41,640 I think there's two ways to answer that. 788 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,040 There's a there's AI think it's George Bernard Shaw that says 789 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,360 the quote from him that says the reasonable man knows that 790 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,400 progress is impossible. Therefore all progress depends 791 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,160 on the unreasonable man and 1617 year old young men are 792 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,160 unreasonable and that, but they're the ones that are going 793 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,400 to change the world. That's kind of their job is to 794 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,240 is to is to do that. You know, they're the people who 795 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,760 get out in the streets and protest and, you know, shake up 796 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,480 the old guard like we need that in both sport and politics in 797 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,520 life. I I think that's true. 798 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,320 So that is kind of the role of that when you are that age. 799 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,240 But I would say that the same thing applies in terms of 800 00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:20,240 building capacity and being honest with yourself about how 801 00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:23,640 something went and why. Not just what happened, but why 802 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:26,440 and digging into that. The people who tend to live 803 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:30,960 longer in these sports tend to really think about what they're 804 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,320 doing and why and what happened and not just go that was bad 805 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,640 luck or I was really good, so that succeeded. 806 00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:39,080 You know, both those statements are not very useful. 807 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,320 It's not just good luck and it's not just bad luck. 808 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,840 It's like what happened and why and debrief it. 809 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,480 And if you look at the people who are winning the PWC's or 810 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,240 setting world records, they tend to be pretty thoughtful people. 811 00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:53,240 Usually they're not just. Yeah, full Sandman. 812 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,560 You know, that doesn't work. They're like trying to 813 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,560 understand things and figure it out. 814 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:58,760 And they do it in different ways. 815 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,880 Some people over very intuitive and instinctual, but they are 816 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,480 thinking about it hard and other other people are like, well, the 817 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,640 the T skew that's there sort of an instability in whatever. 818 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,520 I don't think that way, but some people do. 819 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,720 So for the young people, it's like, yeah, think about it and 820 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:16,600 decide, you know, if you want to push, great. 821 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,840 But if you're pushing to overcome fear, then maybe have a 822 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,120 look at that. But again, it's everybody has to 823 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,040 come up with their own SIS software, right? 824 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,760 Their own model and be honest about it, that it's like, it's 825 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,120 brutal honesty with yourself. It's like, why did this happen? 826 00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:34,640 And, you know, sometimes it was completely unforeseeable and, 827 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,920 and now you're like, OK, now I've got a bit more information 828 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,080 to foresee that or I have an area that I need to build more 829 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,680 capacity, but it's your model and and you have to develop it. 830 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,720 And then so, you know, to those young people, just be honest 831 00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:48,960 about what's going on and what you want to do. 832 00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,480 And, you know, if people want to do really dangerous things like 833 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,320 wing seat, base jumping 6 inches off the ground AT200K, go for 834 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:56,680 it, man. As long as you're really clear 835 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,680 that like pretty much everybody does that for a long time, dies 836 00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:02,560 is are you cool with that? You are go for it. 837 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,880 I feel sorry for the rescuers have to scrape your carcass up, 838 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,840 but that's where your mind is at giver. 839 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,360 I mean, I really do it's shit thing for the for the rescuers, 840 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,480 it's no good, but in on an individual level, I I believe 841 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,400 risk taking is is individual and super important. 842 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,080 Long answer to a short question again, but I think about this 843 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,920 stuff way too much is. That that's why you're on the 844 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,920 show. Will you know it's your neural 845 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,600 podcast was dream. I ask you one thing, you answer 846 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,800 20 others along with it. Yeah, sorry that's ADD 2 bad. 847 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,640 No, love it, love it. I'm, I'm, I'm pretty sure the 848 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,040 audience members listening to this are also having a ball of a 849 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:38,560 type. But you know, this brings me to 850 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,600 dilemma. Another one which I had is like 851 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:45,240 differentiating inclusion from anxiety because your heart rate 852 00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:46,960 goes up. And that's a little bit of fear, 853 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,760 right? But if your heart rate goes up 854 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,520 more than your comfort level, then you reach a point where you 855 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,440 say that, hey, my heart rate is lying because there are, there's 856 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,960 a pseudo risk as well or something. 857 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,520 I'm not sure if I'm able to put my question correctly, but 858 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:05,080 intuition from anxiety is when I, when I find it super hard to 859 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,640 understand that, Hey, do I, I've trained enough, but there is 860 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,720 still something that tells me maybe I'm not good enough. 861 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,840 For example, this interview right now, I had prepared for 862 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,280 this for three or four days in a row. 863 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,120 I, I looked up all your podcasts, I watched all your Ted 864 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,080 talks and, you know, sat on your website. 865 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,480 But right now when I'm asking you. 866 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,600 I am stammering inside. My heart rate is shooting up. 867 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,920 There you go. So, so when this happens on the 868 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,560 action or like the day of action, or you know in the 869 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,160 moment what is the way to hold back or still make peace with 870 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,200 your reality and change your goals as planned. 871 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,880 So a lot of different answers to this and, and I, I try to figure 872 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:44,240 out the best way to come at this. 873 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,680 So the classic sports psychology way to come at this. 874 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,720 And this is a useful tool for sure. 875 00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:52,920 It has limitations, but the, the most useful thing is you're, 876 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,120 you're thinking about a paragliding competition or 877 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,920 whatever, something that has meaning to you, but also is 878 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,360 maybe risky in whatever way. And and you're you, it's really 879 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,600 easy to spend a lot of of time worrying about the worry and so 880 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,000 on and all the things that you can't control. 881 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,360 What if I make a mistake? What if I do this? 882 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:13,600 You know, what if I asked this will Gad guy really stupid 883 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,160 question, You know, like he can't control any of that 884 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,240 actually. So the basic sports psychology 885 00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:21,200 thing before any, anything you're going to do is to worry 886 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,680 about the things you can control and have thought through some of 887 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,160 the things maybe you can't control and have solutions to 888 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:28,720 them to the best of your ability. 889 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:33,040 But game day before you go out there, it's like you have to 890 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,800 focus on what you can control. So in a paragliding competition, 891 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,200 it's like, are you actually hydrated? 892 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,000 Are you actually fed? Do you have calories if you're 893 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,120 going to be in the air for the next 6 hours? 894 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,600 Is your gear in good working order? 895 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,920 Have you spent a lot of time working on your launching in in, 896 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,040 you know, thermal midday conditions? 897 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,640 Have you, If you haven't done some of these things, then then 898 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,360 maybe it's time to ponder if you should really be there. 899 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,160 You know, but if you've done the work and you've decided it's 900 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,440 important and you show up and if you're still terrified, then I 901 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:04,720 don't think you've done enough work. 902 00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:07,200 You, you need to maybe stand down or go, right? 903 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,320 I'm going to back off. I'm going to launch last today. 904 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,880 I'm going to chase the gaggle. I'm going to see what people do 905 00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:13,800 and I'm going to be OK with that. 906 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,120 I don't want to fly in terror. This is not a high performance 907 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,160 state. So sports psychology is control 908 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,360 the things you're going to do and then back it down if you if 909 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,640 you can't, you know, take some load off and you can do that a 910 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:29,480 lot of different ways. And then afterwards go, OK, I 911 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,320 showed up there. I was terrified and I didn't 912 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,240 feel like I blonde there. And you know, I felt that way my 913 00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:37,440 whole life. Most paragliding competitions. 914 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,640 I'm like, oh, these people are all way better than me and they, 915 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,360 you know, more fancier gear or whatever. 916 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,400 You know, I'm from small town Canada. 917 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,480 You know, I should be like, you know, driving a taxi, which is 918 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,200 I've done, but it's like it's, you know, I'm not, I never show 919 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:52,920 up there feeling like I know what I'm doing doing. 920 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,600 But I, and then I'm like, well, OK, is my gear together more or 921 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,720 less, you know, and I've put the time in and that's just basic 922 00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:01,120 sports psychology. And then when you learn how to 923 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,200 do that, it's the same tactic I use when I go out and do a 924 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,600 speaking engagement. It's like have I, you know, I 925 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,560 use that worry to prep for it. It's like, OK, this group is 926 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,040 really into thinking about things in these ways and I'm 927 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,680 going to try to give them some tools to engage here. 928 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,520 OK, so how am I going to make that work and breaking it down? 929 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,080 And when I get up there, I'm really worried about presenting 930 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,960 the ideas or executing well, but I'm not terrified of the 931 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,440 experience because I've put enough time and effort into it 932 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,160 and recognized that terror and kind of dealt with it beforehand 933 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,440 so that I don't if I'm terrified in the air and my heart rate 934 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,520 spikes, I'm basically my primary problem is now not the other 935 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,480 competitors. My primary problem is what is 936 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,280 going wrong with me. Maybe I've missed something too. 937 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,760 Maybe that's my body's way of telling me that I've missed 938 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,840 something that big Q Nam over there that I've been not paying 939 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,600 attention to you because I'm paying attention to all the 940 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,560 other competitors and so on. Like I should be in my hurry, 941 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,240 should be like, it's massive. And I've got like 6 minutes to 942 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:58,360 get on the ground. Like, OK, well, how am I going 943 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,720 to do that? You know, like, yeah, so long 944 00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:02,760 answer again, but sports psychology, worry about the 945 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,960 things you can control and make sure those are done well. 946 00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,400 And then listen. Listen to that fear and engage 947 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:09,320 with it. Don't ignore it. 948 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,360 You know, as we come to the closing one, I'm so glad we we 949 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,800 spoke about this because I think I was listening to your your 950 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,240 talk with Alex Arnold another. Great. 951 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,320 Yeah, he's he's interested character. 952 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,040 Yeah, I love how he put on like some beautiful shots about you 953 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,200 guys having 5 minute conversations on YouTube and 954 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,400 then the whole thing. And I think there you spoke 955 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,760 about practicing risk taking or increasing risk endurance, where 956 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,320 the analogy was that if if you don't pick up the phone and call 957 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,120 up your date, then it's a definite no. 958 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,800 So what I'm wondering is finding the courage to pick up the 959 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,360 phone. I mean, of course, this can be, 960 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,280 you know, how parallels can be drawn in various adventure 961 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,880 sports and this. But how do you practice picking 962 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,160 up the phone and calling in with sole confidence rather than 963 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,720 shaking while picking up the phone just because that if you 964 00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:00,240 don't do it and even that option is gone from your life? 965 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,400 Yeah. Did I make my question clear? 966 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,400 Yeah, it's and it's, I think it's a really good question. 967 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,240 I think a lot of people get stuck on on the looking at the 968 00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:10,680 phone and don't pick it up. So a couple different things in 969 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,160 every worthwhile activity, the best thing to do for that 970 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,560 activity is to do it. And then the next best activity 971 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,480 to get better at is something that closely approximates it in 972 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,480 some way. And then then you sort of move 973 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,520 further and further away and maybe you have to do the 974 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,000 necessary physical therapy or job training or whatever that's 975 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,120 way down there. But so if you, you know, if you 976 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,960 can't pick that phone up and actually dial it and make the 977 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,960 call, you can pick it up and practice what you're going to 978 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,600 say and you can detune it again, detune the situation to where 979 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,120 you can handle it. And I do that with a lot of 980 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,640 different stuff, you know, whether it's it's kayaking and 981 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,040 I'm like, well, what if I'm stuck upside down against the 982 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,160 wall and I can't roll up? What are my options? 983 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,360 It's like, OK, well, you know, I can, I can go to the other side. 984 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,200 Maybe I can grab the wall And I think through 10 different 985 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,000 things. Or just sticking with the 986 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,520 analogy, what's the worst thing that the person can do? 987 00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,680 They can laugh at me. I've been laughed at all my 988 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,400 whole life. People tell me I'm an idiot and 989 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:02,840 what I'm going to do is impossible. 990 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:06,120 That's a pretty normal reaction, but at a certain point, every 991 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,520 time that happens, you get better at dealing with it. 992 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,920 You don't take it personally. You're like, either this person 993 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,080 thinks what I want to do is crazy and they think I'm an 994 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:14,880 idiot. Well, that's happened before. 995 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,040 It loses its impact after a certain point. 996 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,880 And when you've gotten up there and failed, you know, whether 997 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,600 it's public speaking, flying a paraglider or whatever, when you 998 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,920 screwed up enough times, you get more comfortable with getting 999 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:26,760 up. I agree. 1000 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,040 So if you keep trying, you get better at trying. 1001 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,280 You know, if you keep working at things, you get better at it. 1002 00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:36,320 So pick that phone call up and the first time you get rejected, 1003 00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,040 it's terrible. I used to be in sales. 1004 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,920 Call somebody up. Hey ABCDEFG, what do you think? 1005 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,560 Nah and don't call me again. Click first time. 1006 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,280 That's devastating. The 50th time you're like, OK, 1007 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,440 one in ten of these calls hits. That was call #9 I got 8 more to 1008 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,560 bake. Here we go. 1009 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:54,360 You know, so you keep trying, but you do have to learn like 1010 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,440 why didn't they respond well to what you were offering? 1011 00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,520 Or or maybe you need to listen to them more. 1012 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,240 Like you got to learn, you know, try, listen, learn, adapt, do 1013 00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:05,200 better. That's the kind of mantra that I 1014 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,880 fighter pilots call an ODA loop, observe, Orient, decide, act. 1015 00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,720 And you know, my personal 1 is like, you got to try. 1016 00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:14,560 That's the first thing. Nothing cool happens if you 1017 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,080 don't take that little risk and try and then you get to get out 1018 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:17,800 there. You got to listen. 1019 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,200 Like, what's the world telling me? 1020 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,680 What's shaking with? Like what is really going on? 1021 00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,160 Not the bullshit in my brain. What's really going on? 1022 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:25,800 You know, you got to listen to it, figure it out. 1023 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,840 Then you got to learn like put it into its place, put it into 1024 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:30,760 your Matrix and your software and your brain. 1025 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,920 And then, you know, it's burned actually. 1026 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,080 And then you adapt, you change your game, you know, and what 1027 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,600 you're doing and you do better. And then you just do that over 1028 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,520 and over and over again. And sooner or later you, you 1029 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,880 either get, you know, get to where you want to go or you 1030 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,280 realize that where you want to go is actually less interesting. 1031 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,720 This other thing you need to go for. 1032 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,480 Well, love it. What was the mantra of the 1033 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:50,880 fighter Fighter? I'm going to like put this in 1034 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,640 show notes after Googling it up. What was? 1035 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,920 Oh, it's just it's called an ODA loop, OODA. 1036 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,680 And so that the classic fighter pilot ODA loop is you. 1037 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,720 You, you observe, Orient, decide, act. 1038 00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:06,200 So my personal version of that is just, you know, try, listen, 1039 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,840 learn, adapt, do better. That's like every situation. 1040 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,480 It's like you got to try, you know, and I respected that you 1041 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,520 tried. You sent me an e-mail and, and 1042 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,080 said, Hey, you gave me a little bit of an interesting story 1043 00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,480 about this. And I was like, Oh, this guy 1044 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,840 seems interesting. So he tried and I listened to 1045 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,520 that. And that's that's that's the 1046 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,240 first part of it. And we'll run into each other 1047 00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:25,680 somewhere on a hill, hopefully in five or ten years and be 1048 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,280 like, Oh, we did that podcast topic. 1049 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,640 What podcast you'd like? The one with the what with the 1050 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,600 guy? I've been Oslo and you know, I 1051 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:33,160 come for brought back. Oh, you're that guy. 1052 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,560 That was awesome, you know, and and we'll develop something 1053 00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,280 cool. So anyhow, but try, listen, 1054 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,240 learn, adapt, do better. That's kind of mine. 1055 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:40,960 Well, thank you. Thank you for the kind words 1056 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,320 girl. Is this the same thing you do 1057 00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:47,240 with your kids when you go out and ask them to the risk factor 1058 00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:50,200 thing and forget where you ask them that what the factor we are 1059 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,240 and and then they revert back to you with the findings? 1060 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:54,720 Yeah. Well, this is, this is, yeah. 1061 00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:56,120 I mean, this is something I've been doing with my kids. 1062 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,520 Like we're all running risk management software, right? 1063 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:00,960 Like everybody is, whether we realize it or not, we're making 1064 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,080 judges about what's appropriate, what's not. 1065 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,080 And so I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm out in the mountains a lot 1066 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,200 with my kids and, and we have sort of three level system that 1067 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,080 we developed together by listening to them. 1068 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,960 It's not something that's like bide, but you know that our 1069 00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,680 basic system is, I'll ask, you know, what hazard level are we 1070 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,280 at? And they'll be God dad bumps and 1071 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,720 bruises. This is casual. 1072 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,120 OK, What do we need to do about it? 1073 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:22,560 Because we also need to mitigate it. 1074 00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,920 Well, not much here. You know, this is like a 1075 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,280 playground and I'm going to attack this playground and 1076 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:28,800 awesome. And there will be someplace a 1077 00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,360 little bit more hazardous, you know, maybe we'll be hiking in 1078 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:33,640 the mountains and there'll be a drop off and I'll be like, OK, 1079 00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:35,520 we're hiking along here. There's this drop off. 1080 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,520 What do you guys think? And they'll be like, you know, 1081 00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,520 was this is definite hospital train, dad. 1082 00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,160 Like you fall off of here, you get you could get really hurt. 1083 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:43,680 And OK, So what are we going to do about it? 1084 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,560 Well, we're not going to run. We're going to hike on the 1085 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,200 inside of the trail, you know, and, and those rocks over there 1086 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,040 are slippery. So we're going to slow down and 1087 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,920 maybe keep a hand on the wall here or whatever, you know, 1088 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,800 that's hospital train. And then we'll be in some very 1089 00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,080 dangerous place like downtown Oslo and the bars let out at 1090 00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,160 night or something, you know, and, and actually Oslo is pretty 1091 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,240 good, but it probably be in some, some hideously maybe we 1092 00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:06,800 don't know the environment very well. 1093 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,160 We'll be getting ready to cross the street and you know, like, 1094 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,120 OK, what hazard level are we at now? 1095 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,480 And the kids would be like death, Dad, death. 1096 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,240 You know, if we run out there, we'll get smoked by some drunk 1097 00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:19,920 Oslolia, although you've got really hard drinking laws there. 1098 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,840 So that probably won't happen, which is probably a good thing. 1099 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,840 But anyhow, that's, you know, it's bumps and bruises, hospital 1100 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,080 death. What are we going to do about 1101 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:27,160 it? Oh, we're going to let those 1102 00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,080 drunk Vikings go 1st and see what happens to them. 1103 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,600 OK, cool. You know, this is how we're 1104 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,160 going to play this game. And the idea is not to terrify 1105 00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,320 them in the world. Like I don't tell my kids, be 1106 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,160 careful. I, I, you know, we get to a 1107 00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,720 playground and I'm like, all right, what's got any issues 1108 00:50:43,720 --> 00:50:44,680 here? And they're like, well, if you 1109 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,480 fall off the top of the buggy bars, you might break yourself. 1110 00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,720 So we're going to be a little more heads up and keep oriented 1111 00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:51,600 our feet. OK, great. 1112 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,880 And then they attack and I watch other parents get to the 1113 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,960 playgrounds like, OK, kids don't don't do anything dangerous. 1114 00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,280 The kids don't even know what is dangerous. 1115 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,640 So yeah, the idea is to develop good risk management software 1116 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:07,000 and define it and redefine it and develop it throughout our 1117 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,400 lifetimes. You know, And so when I'm not 1118 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:12,200 watching the kids that they can make good decisions. 1119 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:14,320 And it's the same with the people that I coach in, in 1120 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,440 mountaineering or paragliding or kayaking or whatever. 1121 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,800 The whole goal is to give them good systems to make good 1122 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,040 decisions in life and then get back to what we were talking 1123 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,560 about at the start of this conversation, which is to is to 1124 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,800 live our coolest lives. That's what we're all trying to 1125 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:28,720 do. That's what you're trying to do. 1126 00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:31,760 And I think that's super cool. That's the psychotic ideal. 1127 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,120 The unexamined life is not worth living, man. 1128 00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:35,680 You've examined it and you're going for it. 1129 00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,960 So I wish you the best and and everybody's making these 1130 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:39,480 decisions. Best of luck with it. 1131 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,480 Thank you. Thank you for such kind words. 1132 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:42,560 These are going to stick with me. 1133 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,000 And I'm going to be the Seals for my, you know, oncoming 1134 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,360 journeys. I hope I make myself and 1135 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,000 everybody else around me proud. So fingers crossed, yeah. 1136 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,560 Well, you're giving people, you're trying to give people 1137 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:54,280 some meaning. And I think as I've gotten 1138 00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:55,960 older, that is more important to me. 1139 00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,560 And if I just think about these things in a vacuum and we don't 1140 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,080 have these kind of conversations, then it's not, I 1141 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,520 hope that people listen to this and, and you've given people 1142 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,960 some meaning and that's the that's the most precious thing. 1143 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,760 And in some ways is to to give that and share that. 1144 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,480 So right on, man. And thank you for the time and 1145 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,720 doing the research that you did and you did a great job. 1146 00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:16,040 And so the next one you like, I interviewed that guy Will Gadd. 1147 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,520 He's kind of a pain in the ass and I kicked the ass, man, so go 1148 00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,040 get it. I love it, love your energy and 1149 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,320 your thoughts will. But before I let you go, will we 1150 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,000 have a tradition on the show where I request my guests to 1151 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,960 share one flight from their life that has stuck with them. 1152 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:34,320 You know if you have to choose one out of all these amazing 1153 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,800 airtime hours or not so amazing, whatever. 1154 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,440 Oh boy, so many. I mean, I've flown I don't know 1155 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,440 how many thousands of hours, but so many good moments, you know, 1156 00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,560 and it's, it's interesting, so many good moments. 1157 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,560 I think one of my favorite moments would be chasing records 1158 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,800 in, in Texas. I was at about 18,000 feet 1159 00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,280 really late in the day and you never go, very rarely do you go 1160 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,240 that high over Texas. It's very, very rare. 1161 00:52:57,240 --> 00:53:00,600 The base is normally just not that high and but I'm up there 1162 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,000 and I didn't set a record that day, but I remember being up 1163 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,640 there and the light was just stunning. 1164 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,360 It was the the ground below me was already after sunset and for 1165 00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:11,520 some reason I'd hit AI don't know why it happened, but I'm 1166 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,760 just being up there in the sky so high over Texas, the ground 1167 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,600 so low. I about like 5000 meters, the 1168 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,120 grounds like 200 meters and just that much space between me and 1169 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,840 the earth. And then still thermaling and 1170 00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,520 these Swifts came and they're eating bugs in the thermal and 1171 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,320 flying between my lines. And I was like, man, this is 1172 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,640 pretty special. Like this just doesn't happen. 1173 00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,200 And that was a but so many just that, that memory being so 1174 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,400 specked out tall like that. And you know, it's almost night 1175 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,320 and it's really, really beautiful with these birds 1176 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,680 eating the insects. They're flying to my lines like 1177 00:53:41,720 --> 00:53:43,800 fighter pilots. They would just go a lot of 1178 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,200 lines and the gliders at that point. 1179 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:46,880 So it was harder. So they were like zapping 1180 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,760 through the line sideways, eating bugs. 1181 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,000 And I just thought, yeah, I'm pretty much the luckiest person 1182 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,240 on Earth right now to be here. Wow, pretty cool and the the 1183 00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:58,120 most beautiful part is that no matter what technology we 1184 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:02,000 invent, such things usually happen and our best absorbed 1185 00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,720 with naked eye and being in the moment and living the so I think 1186 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,600 you know, I'm so glad I could rekindle that and thank you for 1187 00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,680 sharing it with our audiences. I'm pretty sure they'll you 1188 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,600 know, appreciate that thought before we close. 1189 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,560 Did you I? I was listening to your Gavin 1190 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,760 show where you said that you were in wave and you got super 1191 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,000 high where you were getting a pinhole visioned. 1192 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:26,160 Oh yeah. Yeah, it's, it's when things are 1193 00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,800 happening like that, I mean they happen fairly quickly. 1194 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,640 Does it make sense to do the risk management talk during that 1195 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,600 time or should you just, you know, make them like make the 1196 00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,080 best out of situation kind of a thing? 1197 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,840 Like when you're in that kind of situation. 1198 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,000 So two things. You've got to do your best to be 1199 00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,080 a participant in that situation as opposed to like a package. 1200 00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,320 See, even when things have gone horribly wrong, a 30% 1201 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,080 improvement and outcome is often quite meaningful, right? 1202 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,360 It's really, really important. Or 10% or 2%. 1203 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,640 It can be the difference. So you to stay engaged and to 1204 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,480 stay focused on on getting things better. 1205 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:04,040 And in the industrial world, they have an acronym which is 1206 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:09,360 sticky STKY and the acronym stands for Shit that can kill 1207 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,320 you sticky. And it's a really useful 1208 00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,560 acronym. Usually when you're in one of 1209 00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,040 those high intensity situations, there's only a few things that 1210 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:18,960 you actually need to manage. You're not worried about your 1211 00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:20,840 bank balance, your mortgage, your love life. 1212 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,320 You got to worry about like, am I going to hit the hill? 1213 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,920 Like that will kill you. And what am I going to do about 1214 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,560 it? How can I make this better? 1215 00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:29,880 You know, if I, if I flare really hard because I've 1216 00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:33,440 misjudged my circle, you know, I'll hit it less hard. 1217 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,800 OK, that's what I'm going to do. You know, when you're downwind 1218 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,960 landing situation, it's like if I fly into the high tension 1219 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:41,920 lines, that'll kill me. So I can't do that any outcome. 1220 00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,680 But that is probably best. So you know that in those high 1221 00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,120 intensity situations, knowing what's going to kill you and 1222 00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:53,000 avoiding that is, is probably the useful thing to do. 1223 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,880 But you know, I just wrote a big article about this, but the 1224 00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,720 people always want to know what to do in these high intensity 1225 00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:00,160 situations. Like what do I do when I'm 1226 00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,640 getting sucked into a KUNIC? I'm landing downwind in the, you 1227 00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:05,240 know, my local LZ. What do I do? 1228 00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:08,480 It's like, well, don't do that. You know, what happened is you 1229 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,240 got sucked into AQ Nim. You didn't get sucked into AQ 1230 00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:14,960 Nim, You flew into AQ Nim. I have never seen anybody get 1231 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,840 sucked into AQ Nim. You know, they flew into them. 1232 00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,440 I watched Ava go to 9000 meters. She thermaled up underneath that 1233 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,560 Q Nim. You know, so rather than it's 1234 00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,520 useful to think about what I'm going to do in these super 1235 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:31,400 extreme situations, but the best thing to do is to avoid them and 1236 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,800 to think about, you know, I've thought a lot about this. 1237 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:37,480 It's like, OK, you know, I flew the Texas dry line for 20 years. 1238 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,360 This is the biggest Q&M Tornado Alley area possibly in the 1239 00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,280 world. Every day it's going to go 1240 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,280 ballistic, but I'm planning to fly there. 1241 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:49,080 So what do I need to watch there so I don't fly into AQ and M? 1242 00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:51,800 You know, there's this, this really bothers me. 1243 00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,440 People are like, well, I got sucked in. 1244 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:54,680 No, you didn't. You flew in. 1245 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,160 And once you start taking kind of real responsibility for the 1246 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:01,200 outcomes, then you then you could fix those outcomes. 1247 00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,520 But this is a problem, especially for some reason in 1248 00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,800 paragliding where people are like, you know, I got sucked 1249 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,320 into a cloud. The clouds suck. 1250 00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:12,760 This is a bullshit like every it's a thermal that goes into it 1251 00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:16,240 like don't do that. Like yeah, OK, how are you going 1252 00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,160 to not do that? Well, I'm going to start my 1253 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,520 glide out earlier in a day with with that it's overcast and I 1254 00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,680 can't see the Q&M's. I'm going to check the radar on 1255 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,680 my phone because you know what you can do that in 90% of the 1256 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:30,120 world Well look at that. The 150K in front of you is now 1257 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:33,840 going to 12,000 meters publishing go land. 1258 00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,360 So it's it's yeah. Anyhow, long rant about that. 1259 00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:41,560 But do focus on avoiding those situations and building 1260 00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:44,920 knowledge to avoid them rather than just solving them. 1261 00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,840 But people tend to want to solve them rather than avoid them. 1262 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,080 Yeah, I think, you know, this is a bit personal to me because I 1263 00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,760 think within my first or SEC first year of flying I was 90 1264 00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:57,360 hour pilot or something. I had a deployment over 1265 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,120 Dharamshala in B and that was just asymmetric going into 1266 00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,400 cascade and went into double twisted auto rotation. 1267 00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:10,040 So what I might like I my, my brain said fight it until it 1268 00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:13,840 reached G point where I was like, hey, man, either deploy or 1269 00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,520 you're passing out. You know that that maybe that 1270 00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,680 blackout was coming in. So my thing is, there was a 1271 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,600 point in time where I just accepted my fate and said that 1272 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,680 now it's either the handle or it's over. 1273 00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:32,480 So if you are going towards an impact or a final like 1274 00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:37,520 undesirable state, is it OK to give up and brace for impact or 1275 00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:41,440 should you kind of keep on fighting until the last bit? 1276 00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:45,080 Because that has eaten me up since that day that hey, why did 1277 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:48,560 you just give up when you were 2000 thousand meters at least to 1278 00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:51,240 clearance and bracing for impact. 1279 00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,880 When should that come and should be peaceful when that comes in 1280 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,520 your mind so. Thank you for telling me that. 1281 00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,600 And it's it sounds like it was personal and emotional and still 1282 00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,360 driving you a little bit today. So, so a couple quick responses 1283 00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:04,760 to that. The first is that you did the 1284 00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:06,560 right thing. You you're in a situation that 1285 00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,480 you did not see how it was going to get better and you're getting 1286 00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:13,680 G doubt and you know, you 3 reserve, most everybody I know 1287 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:16,320 that's thrown the reserve has walked away. 1288 00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,640 A lot of people, I'd say most everybody I've known that hasn't 1289 00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,360 thrown the reserve but has braced for impact has gotten 1290 00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,720 really messed up. So in my books, you did the 1291 00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:27,080 right thing. You were, you had a solution to 1292 00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,480 a problem. And you know, if you're a very, 1293 00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,120 very experienced pilot, maybe you have other solutions to that 1294 00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:34,400 problem, but you didn't have the capacity anymore. 1295 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,200 So you did the logical thing, which is throw your reserve. 1296 00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:39,720 I think that's awesome. I wish more people did that. 1297 00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,280 If more people threw their reserves earlier, we'd have a 1298 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:43,960 lot less fatalities and paragliding. 1299 00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,960 That is really clear to me, you know, and, and people like, oh, 1300 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:48,800 but you could go into a power line. 1301 00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:50,960 Well sure you could, but you could go into the power line 1302 00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,480 fighting your glider all the way into the dirt and hit the tower 1303 00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,960 going 120 K an hour and break everything in your body. 1304 00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:01,240 Like very few situations are improved by riding the 1305 01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,960 paraglider into the dirt. So you threw early and I think 1306 01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:05,880 that's awesome. I guess the second thing I'd ask 1307 01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,120 you is a question. If if you took that ace same 1308 01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:09,960 asymmetric today, what would happen to you? 1309 01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,280 Easy. I hopefully know how to come out 1310 01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,120 of it. And why do you and how do you 1311 01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:15,680 know that? It's just went out and put in 1312 01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:16,480 the work. Yeah. 1313 01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,280 So you built capacity to handle that. 1314 01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,120 So your problem wasn't what should I brace for impact to 1315 01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,080 throw my reserve like these are not neither what are these are 1316 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:25,840 like? Like by the time you've gotten 1317 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,840 to that point, you did the right thing, you threw your reserve. 1318 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,320 But the bigger picture here is again to build capacity. 1319 01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,680 Asymmetrics are an expected part of paragliding. 1320 01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:37,160 So are frontals on speed bar on two line gliders. 1321 01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,920 This is these things will happen and have we built the capacity 1322 01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,160 to manage them or not. You know you're going to get 1323 01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,520 sucked into a QM if you've if you are not paying attention to 1324 01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:48,680 the environment around you, this will happen. 1325 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,800 There's this is QMS are you know, it's just part of flying. 1326 01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,400 They're out there. But if you've developed the 1327 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,920 tools to pay attention to your environment and look at your 1328 01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:59,760 phone now you're developing capacity to avoid the situation, 1329 01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,200 not just go and I read I listened to this article. 1330 01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,160 This guy got sucked into a he flew into a QM and he's like, I 1331 01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,960 need a faster glider so I could fly away faster. 1332 01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:11,800 This is total bullshit. You need to not fly into Qdibs. 1333 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:13,960 You need to have the understanding of the systems. 1334 01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:17,120 It doesn't matter whether you're on a, you know, the hottest cop 1335 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,280 ship in existence or an A wing. It the difference is like not a 1336 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:24,120 lot really in terms of getting, you know, the inflow to Acunium 1337 01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,040 is going very, very fast. I've been in a couple of them. 1338 01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:28,360 It's shit. I screwed up. 1339 01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,400 And you do not want to have this experience. 1340 01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:34,240 Doesn't matter what you're on. So, you know, avoidance and is 1341 01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:38,680 capacity is good, but avoiding it is is more is more better, 1342 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,760 Yeah. Love it. 1343 01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:42,440 Love it. Will. 1344 01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:45,880 I think this is one of the most comprehensive talks we have had 1345 01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:49,880 on staying safe and yet having fun without, you know, 1346 01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:53,160 normalizing or obsessing risk assessment or something. 1347 01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,280 So yeah. And that what you just said is 1348 01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,160 really important. It's like people forget why 1349 01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:59,760 everybody wants to make paragliding safe, and it's not 1350 01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,240 safe. I don't care who you are or what 1351 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:03,360 you do, you're going to hit the ground sooner or later. 1352 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,320 This is what happens. And some of the people are like, 1353 01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,520 I've got it all figured out. I've got the perfect sauce. 1354 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,760 When I fly safely, they hit the ground, man. 1355 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,560 I've seen this happen several times. 1356 01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:15,200 Word that over the years. So you got to think that this is 1357 01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,560 fun and worth that possibility. Like to me it is. 1358 01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:22,040 Flying paragliders is awesome. It's worth the risk to me. 1359 01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:24,600 And I know that it's very likely that sooner or later I'll get it 1360 01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,960 wrong and I'll hit the ground. I'm not doing this safely. 1361 01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:31,680 It's really dangerous, but I can make it somewhat safer and I can 1362 01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:35,280 make good decisions and focus in the process of making good 1363 01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:37,680 decisions. And then if it goes bad, you 1364 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,200 know, like, well, I, I really did think about this and I made 1365 01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,200 a good effort and, and I, you know, I didn't hit it, but you 1366 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:45,360 know, at least I put the work in and, and tried. 1367 01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,360 So being process driven, failing safely, you know, some of the 1368 01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,200 tools we've talked about, I, I hope they resonate a little bit 1369 01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,280 with people and with you and it, and then the ultimate goal is to 1370 01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,200 come up with your own. I'm just making this shit up. 1371 01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,080 It's like based on a lot of experience, but it's just my 1372 01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,240 bottle and you got to develop your own and everybody does. 1373 01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:03,560 And I and I wish them luck with that. 1374 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,240 Thank you for those words of wisdom and kindness for sharing 1375 01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,000 them with us, Will. And all I can say is that you, 1376 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,880 your lifestyle and the way you impart knowledge is, is an 1377 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,200 inspiration. So keep rocking and we will keep 1378 01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,280 getting inspired. Thank you once again. 1379 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:19,360 Thank you. Pleasure you. 1380 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:20,520 Thanks. I'm really glad you threw your 1381 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:21,440 reserve man. You're here. 1382 01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,880 Good decision. So right on and look forward to 1383 01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:25,880 seeing out a hill somewhere. Likewise, will likewise.