1 00:00:09,020 --> 00:00:12,500 Welcome back, Benjamin, to Part 2 of Paragliding Atlas. 2 00:00:12,500 --> 00:00:15,460 And first thing that comes to my mind when it's all about 3 00:00:15,460 --> 00:00:19,900 storytelling is that how do you basically start building a 4 00:00:19,900 --> 00:00:23,560 narrative? Let's say your Guineas, world 5 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:29,040 record fly Minorca has a very deep meaning behind it, the way 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,240 you explain the migration of the butterflies and the challenges 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,280 they face and everything. So when it comes to developing a 8 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,960 narrative, how does your process for that one look like and how 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:40,240 do you do it? Sure. 10 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,520 There's a few different approaches that I can imagine 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,920 someone going into something like this. 12 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:58,720 And so there's 3 to be precise, that I can imagine. 1 is, OK, we 13 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,040 really want to do this thing. Let's paraglide from Mexico to 14 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:03,200 Canada. That sounds cool. 15 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:05,640 And so let's just do this thing, right? 16 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,880 OK, done. Now we're looking at that 17 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,920 footage and we're saying, OK, what's interesting, what's 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,520 relevant? Where are some parallels? 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:18,160 How can we weave this into a story and then start building 20 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,880 that narrative on the editing floor, right? 21 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,160 Because you still haven't presented anything to the world. 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,400 How are you going to make it mean something to people beyond 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,680 just, hey, I've got a bit of an ego and I'm going to do this 24 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,920 thing to be overly simplistic? Then there's the other approach, 25 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:41,440 which is to say I can't start unless I know how the intro is 26 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,360 going to go, how the middle's going to go, where all the 27 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,680 twists are going to be, What are the UPS, what are the downs? 28 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,000 How's it going to conclude? What's the moral? 29 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,160 OK, so now here's the second option where we've constructed a 30 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,040 story the way you might screen write like a Hollywood film. 31 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,320 And, and, and then you go ahead and you try to have your 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,240 experience and you try to have that experience of paragliding 33 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,240 from Mexico to Canada and actually meet all of those check 34 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,240 boxes. Like, OK, got that scene. 35 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,640 OK, got that scene. Oh yeah, I was hungry right 36 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:17,240 there. OK, got that scene done. 37 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,760 So now you're just going to slap it together again the way that 38 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,680 they would a commercial sort of documentary made for television 39 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,200 where that's how they do it without elaborating on why. 40 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,160 And then there's the middle ground, which is that you have 41 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:38,680 some inspiration. In my case for this project, it 42 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,840 was the monarch butterfly. I discovered them, although I 43 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,200 grew up with them in Canada, and they were just a run-of-the-mill 44 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,720 standard butterfly that you wouldn't bat an eyelash. 45 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,760 The finding them in Mexico and then realizing that they 46 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,720 actually flew there, that blew my mind. 47 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,760 That blew my mind because I thought nothing of them. 48 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,400 But I would think highly of anything that could fly from 49 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,160 even a bird, never mind the equivalent of a post it note, 50 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,040 the monarch butterfly. I would have a tremendous amount 51 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,040 of respect for a goose that did that. 52 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:22,400 Here we have this little piece of paper doing that and with an 53 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:28,720 accuracy that I don't even need. For the viewers that don't know 54 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:33,720 this, the monarch butterfly, a little butterfly is flying three 55 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:39,600 4000 kilometers from 1 country across an entire other country 56 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,480 down to the southern part of this continent and landing like 57 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:49,440 top landing autumn, very specific mountain where they've 58 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,440 never been before. Their parents had never been 59 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,000 before. Their parents had never been 60 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:59,120 before, but their parents had been born to have that kind of 61 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,880 pinpoint accuracy on top of this monumentous, seemingly 62 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,360 impossible. Even now when I think about it, 63 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:11,920 project is so inspiring to me as a cross country pilot who just, 64 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,399 you know, desperately tries to tag waypoints on a a flight that 65 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:18,720 I planned, that I feels it near impossible to me. 66 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,959 So they're without going off too far. 67 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,120 I I'm saying that is my inspiration. 68 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,280 I am motivated. What can I do to try and 69 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:31,360 experience something of what they've experienced? 70 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,120 OK, now we have the inspiration. Now we have the general idea, 71 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,720 now let's go and live it. And yeah, of course we can try 72 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,400 to find parallels while we're going and make some notes and do 73 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,360 some vlogs about that. But let's take the original 74 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,760 idea, not be too attached to how the the project is going to go. 75 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,360 Have it go however it goes. Again, this is a part of not 76 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,560 being having too much pressure on oneself. 77 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,240 And then look at all of the parallels that we can draw all 78 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:07,000 of the exciting points that we should offer to our viewers and 79 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,120 just mash them together into an hour and a half. 80 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,320 Whatever it's going to be to try and create something that is 81 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,560 inspiring and easy enough to watch. 82 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,960 That's what I found works. It's worth saying, 'cause you 83 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,400 probably won't ask. I've tried both of the other 84 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,440 methods, just doing something and then trying to put the story 85 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,080 together at the end. That that works. 86 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,000 But it can seem, it can seem a little bit amateur, or at least 87 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,720 that I feel that way. Maybe it's because those were my 88 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,120 earlier works. But then the other extreme where 89 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:47,040 you literally have a storyboard and you try to check off those 90 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,320 epic scenes. Because if you can achieve this 91 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,440 up and this down and this twist that you're going to have 92 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,440 something just that is sensational that never works. 93 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,120 I there, there are films and films that I have shot or half 94 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,760 shot that no one will ever see because I tried to do them that 95 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,320 way to save time to create better content. 96 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,480 And they seem so fake and they're not interesting to me. 97 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,480 I do not want to put energy into them. 98 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,480 They're inauthentic and I feel like they would seem inauthentic 99 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,800 to a viewer. Got it. 100 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,120 I think you you put it across beautifully and I think just for 101 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,600 the information of our audiences, for those who are 102 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,440 interested in checking out Benjamin's work, just Google 103 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,760 them up or head over to benjaminjordan.com and you see 104 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,520 all the magic out there put at clicks. 105 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,400 Yeah, just absolutely. Just Benjamin jordan.com, like 106 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:48,200 Michael Jordan's brother Benjamin Benjamin jordan.com is 107 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:52,640 that is where you want to find any, anything that I've feel 108 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,680 proud of that's come up in the last 1520 years. 109 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,800 All right, great. I think we've talked about 110 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,200 building a narrative and finding a purpose and how you're doing 111 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,160 it right and making sure it reaches the audience that we 112 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,240 intend to. I'm just wondering, Benjamin, 113 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,160 when you were working on all of these and you did explain it a 114 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,200 little bit, not to put any time expectation around it. 115 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,840 But when it comes to putting together a visual project, what 116 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:22,440 has an average timeline from the start to the finish look like 117 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,680 for you? And if you can talk us a little 118 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,720 bit about behind the scenes and budgeting and all of that so 119 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,880 that anybody who is willing to get into this gets an overall 120 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,440 idea from Someone Like You who has made it and realize these 121 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:35,520 things. OK. 122 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,160 So you're hopefully your audience is getting a sense. 123 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,280 I certainly am getting the sense as I say a lot of these things 124 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:52,080 out loud, that my MO is really to try to keep as much pressure 125 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:57,640 off of myself as possible. So my timelines may be way 126 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,200 stretched out versus the current expectations of people that may 127 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,560 be looking at doing similar things. 128 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,240 But I like so overall big picture. 129 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,080 I like to spread out projects by two years and there's a few 130 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:20,320 reasons for that. I found that works best when you 131 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,880 need to do 4 parts pre production, which I consider 132 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:29,520 conceptualization of a concept. So redundancy there. 133 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:35,480 Birth of a concept, search for support, which is I got to say 134 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,280 in parentheses. That's not a requirement, right? 135 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,640 If people want to get on board, that's great. 136 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:42,720 If people don't want to get on board, it's. 137 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,840 What's perfect is if projects can happen with or without 138 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,960 sponsorship and ironically, sponsors are more likely to 139 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,160 support something that doesn't need them versus something that 140 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,720 is requires them. That is the. 141 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,440 I don't want to go off on a tangent, but I've learned that 142 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:06,800 painfully over time that if people don't think that you need 143 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,840 them, then they start to feel like they need you. 144 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,320 The same way as if I had a project that already had a whole 145 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,720 bunch of sponsorship. It would be really easy to get 146 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,240 additional sponsors because those sponsors recognize 147 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,280 ultimately, not that they're having FOMO and that they want 148 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,520 to be like all the other sponsors, but they what they 149 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,480 recognize is this person's already has the support to do 150 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,920 what it is that they want to do with or without me. 151 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,000 And so this is actually a good place to invest. 152 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,920 And so that can also apply to having no sponsors for a 153 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,480 project, no support for a project, but that they recognize 154 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,280 that this project is going to happen with or without because 155 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,200 the requirements are well within your means. 156 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,720 And so that's just a side note, But so that's a part of pre 157 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,640 production. As you got your idea, you're 158 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,240 putting together some materials perhaps to get some support that 159 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,400 could take six months, especially if you're working 160 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,080 another job or you have some other obligations like family. 161 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,320 Then you have your project, which not to spoil anyone's 162 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,120 dreams, but that's usually the quickest part of the whole 163 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,880 process, right, of this two year cycle that that I like to look 164 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:24,880 at, which can take anywhere from as long as five months, six 165 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:30,280 months for this, like this Ply Monarca to as little as a few 166 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,800 weeks, which was the time it took me to shoot the Boy Who 167 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:39,080 flies in Malawi, Africa, teaching the first person to 168 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,000 paraglide there. And then at that, after that, 169 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,640 then you've got another six months, let's say, of editing 170 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,480 and your photos, writing articles, editing a film. 171 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,440 And then, OK, so you've used let's just say six months, six 172 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,000 months and not, let's not even count the time for the 173 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,240 expedition. Now if you actually want to 174 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,480 monetize that thing that you've created, you need to be able to 175 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,640 promote that and possibly do what I have enjoyed doing, which 176 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,840 is going on my own film tours where I'm driving around and I'm 177 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,600 I'm presenting and I'm doing Q&A's and I feel I really enjoy 178 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,640 doing that. And they can't be lucrative 179 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,840 economically, but even just being a part of film festivals, 180 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,680 etcetera, etcetera, all these things take time. 181 00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:30,360 You submit today and then hopefully they accept your film 182 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,320 in five months and then three months later it's on the screen. 183 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:35,000 So right there, that's like a year. 184 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,440 And while that's happening, you've entered your next six 185 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,120 month cycle to begin preparations for your next 186 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,040 project. So just in terms of being 187 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:51,200 realistic for me to do this as a professional and be able to pay 188 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,080 my way through life with these projects, I need to give myself 189 00:11:55,080 --> 00:12:00,480 that kind of time on either end of the actual expedition in 190 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,600 order to do it. And then I would say as a side 191 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:07,800 effect, giving myself that kind of time, it also allows me to 192 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:12,840 have renewed passion when I get get going on my next project. 193 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,920 This is versus maybe what I would have imagined and wait, 194 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,720 maybe what a lot of other people would imagine, which is like, 195 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,440 oh, you could, you got 10 years, you could do 10 expeditions. 196 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,640 You could do something every summer, every paragliding 197 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,680 season. I could do something every 198 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:29,440 paragliding season. But if I did that, I don't think 199 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,120 that I would be able to do it professionally, at least not 200 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,440 without an entire team of people around me doing all of the film 201 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,040 editing and publicity and all of that kind of work. 202 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,760 I would literally just have to be the athlete, which I'm just 203 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:45,640 not in that position. And I don't think I would really 204 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,600 like to be in that position. It would feel too much like a 205 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,240 job. So that's I think that answers 206 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,600 your question just in terms of the flow and the realistic 207 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,680 expectations. It does very well and thank you 208 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,600 once again for explaining it so well. 209 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:00,480 Like you're a podcaster's dream man. 210 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,480 I ask one question and you answer all the side questions by 211 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,880 yourself. Hey, it's I love being a 212 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,520 podcaster's dream. I'll add that to My Portfolio 213 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,040 by. Go ahead man, I'll vouch for it. 214 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,720 If you knew the testimony, you'd hit me off. 215 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,160 I'll write the best one ever. OK great. 216 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,880 Yeah, I feel like I want to go on a tiny bit of time to here 217 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,040 before switching on to the. The next point is that very new 218 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:31,720 generation in today's world is is increasing from digital media 219 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,480 and be with any kind of content on YouTube or Instagram or short 220 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,480 form, long form, horizontal, vertical because I think TikTok 221 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,840 recently started horizontal content as well. 222 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,960 Usually at an average. Of course, this is very 223 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,840 subjective depending upon how many projects you have and how 224 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,600 much success you get with them. But at an average, what kind of 225 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,440 revenue generations do projects like these look at? 226 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,000 Can you end up buying a small car? 227 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,080 Can you end up buying a living off it for a few months in a 228 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,480 very frugal manner or just a ballpark figure so that our 229 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,200 audiences get an idea like what they are getting into if they 230 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,280 want? To well, OK, so that's a great 231 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:10,880 question. And I feel like in order for 232 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,400 that to be to resonate with as many people as possible, I 233 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,920 really shouldn't dive into what's the right word, like 234 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:25,440 static figures because somehow it feels unprofessional. 235 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:29,360 But also I feel like it feels like it would alienate someone 236 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,200 who's on either side of that, someone who might think that's 237 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,360 way too much or, or someone who might probably most people would 238 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:38,720 think that's not enough. I, I can't believe that he 239 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,880 survives on that. And so let's just say it's 240 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:50,600 always more than I think I can generate, but it's probably not 241 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,320 been enough to keep me out of what a lot of people who are 242 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,040 working other like hardcore nine to five jobs that they either 243 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:02,080 love or don't love would think is much beyond the poverty 244 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,680 level. I had my my mom growing up. 245 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:12,120 My mom was a high school teacher and way back then, this is in 246 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,160 the 80s, I remember her thinking that she needed or to raise our 247 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,640 family. She made about 40K Canadian per 248 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,840 year. And again, we've had a lot of 249 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,080 inflation since then. But for a lot of my life, I 250 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,880 haven't had to support a family. And that's all been by design 251 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,080 because I, I recognized that I was going to go through his 252 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,120 period of not earning very much and having to eat a lot of beans 253 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,960 and rice and living in the school bus, as I described in 254 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,320 your in the, the interview prior, in order to get by. 255 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,320 I've always been able to get by with the support that I've 256 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,120 gotten. I'd say at first from the 257 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,680 community at large, For instance, The Boy Who Flies, 258 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:03,600 this is a film that I shot in, pardon me, 2011 about traveling 259 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,760 to Malawi to teach children how to build kites from random 260 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,080 pieces of garbage. And then ultimately found a guy 261 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,480 who wanted to learn to paraglide. 262 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,320 And then we have this inspiring story of him becoming his 263 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,720 country's first paraglider pilot. 264 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,600 Great film. Also, it's my first film 265 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,000 monetarily. That was probably the most 266 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,160 successful film I've ever had in terms of prizes, one from film 267 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,280 festivals, in terms of licensing for television, in terms of 268 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,880 people buying hard DVDs and a digital downloads. 269 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,480 That was great. That allowed me not only to go 270 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,240 back to Malawi and even have enough extra money to go back 271 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,640 there and start a paragliding school there and a Community 272 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,720 Center there, but it or I should say piggyback on a Community 273 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,880 Center that existed there. But to allow people to go there 274 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,880 and, and paraglide with people there and, and teach more people 275 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,640 to paraglide there. It allowed me to to live for 276 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:08,599 probably three years while I worked on my next project, which 277 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,319 became XBC paragliding from Vancouver to Calgary. 278 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:14,079 The film's called Strong the wind blows. 279 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:15,440 It's pretty cool. You shake it out. 280 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:20,240 So I've always been able to get by, but I think that what's 281 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,599 important to say is that I wouldn't have been I wouldn't 282 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:24,680 have been able to get by. How do I continue to live the 283 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,560 lifestyle that I was living prior to embarking on this 284 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,600 journey? How do I continue to rent the 285 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,560 same nice apartment? How do I continue to feed myself 286 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,080 the same kind of food? How do I continue to have dinner 287 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,800 guests over every week and and be feeding them some fine foods? 288 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,040 How do I, had I done all that stuff, had I not moved into the 289 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,800 school bus and really humbled myself, none of that would have 290 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,480 worked out for me. I wouldn't have been able to put 291 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,720 the time in and I wouldn't be here talking to you right now. 292 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:55,040 Now a very, I would say a relatively small portion of the 293 00:17:55,360 --> 00:18:01,160 income comes from the audience, which is sad because I, I like 294 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,040 that idea of that. That's the community that 295 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,280 supports me. The community does support me, 296 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,720 but I over time now as I've had more success but also just had 297 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,920 more eyeballs, I've gotten the attention of people who can 298 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,600 benefit from advertising inside of what I do. 299 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:22,520 Which was always the goal was to create what I dubbed authentic 300 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,720 advertising, which is giving people an opportunity to present 301 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,680 their brands inside of a story that is true. 302 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:34,240 As opposed to what I used to create in my past life as a 303 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,120 fashion photographer, as a commercial photographer in the 304 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:40,200 city of Toronto, which was inauthentic advertising. 305 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,880 Which I people are giving me a wad of cash to create a whole 306 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,320 scenario that never would have existed if that wad of cash 307 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,760 hadn't existed. And to create a picture of 308 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,960 someone having a good time or a picture of someone being sexy or 309 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,440 someone being bad ass or whatever, in order to sell a 310 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,840 product. People are looking at that 311 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,480 picture and they're getting on board with that brand because 312 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,120 they're having an emotion. But that emotion is triggered by 313 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:06,720 something that never ever would have happened had a company not 314 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,720 completely manipulated a scene in order to create it. 315 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,800 Sorry if I'm I'm all over the place here. 316 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:19,160 I wanted to stop doing that work in Toronto as a thinking it. 317 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,280 That's the thing. It didn't feel good to me 'cause 318 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,960 I realized through it was actually the images from that 319 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,560 skateboarding event that I called the board meeting that 320 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,560 were so powerful that I realized, wait a second, these 321 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,040 images are so powerful that they're getting more people to 322 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,080 come out, more people to come out. 323 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,840 People are taking action based on pictures of things that are 324 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,680 really happening. And I get it. 325 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,240 That sounds to people like, yeah, dude, what's the big deal? 326 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,120 You're just having an adventure and photographing it. 327 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,320 Yeah, dude, you're just having an adventure and you're filming 328 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,920 it. But at the time, I could have 329 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,400 never imagined it. At the time, for me, pictures 330 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:58,640 were all just about creating a false image to influence a 331 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,160 viewer into making a financial choice to engage with a product 332 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:07,360 or service. That's how I started and it 333 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:09,880 didn't feel good. And when I realized that I I was 334 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,360 making pictures and I was art directing really 'cause I would 335 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,120 have these events and that I would be directing 15 336 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,560 photographers. What kind of film to use, what 337 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,400 kind of shots to get this shot? And I'm creating these powerful 338 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,920 images of people skateboarding in white dress shirts and 339 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,520 neckties through a busy city congesting traffic. 340 00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:33,720 I'm creating power greater than I could create shooting for 341 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,360 L'Oreal or shooting for Nike with these fake settings where 342 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:39,640 I've rented all these lights and these makeup artists and and 343 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,640 stylists. How can I take that power? 344 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,560 It feels so good to create this true authentic power. 345 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,680 And now offer that privilege to a brand because that brand is 346 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,560 willing to say, hey, you know what, we support what you're 347 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,640 doing and here's a lot of cash. Keep at it. 348 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,280 And that's been great because that kind of support, what it's 349 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,760 allowed me to do is it's allowed me to not be so concerned about 350 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:11,040 whether or not I am able to generate enough film sales or 351 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:16,880 whether or not my film is perfect festival material and 352 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,280 not have to rely on those sources of income as much. 353 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,080 And just know that there are businesses that are willing to 354 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:28,440 get behind me regardless because they appreciate the message and 355 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:32,960 they appreciate that people are seeing this and that they agree 356 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,760 that this is a great way to advertise and reach people in an 357 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,040 authentic way. I love it man, but just to 358 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,760 illustrate this point a little more, can you pick up any 359 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,160 example from any of your projects so that our audiences 360 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,560 can relate or get get an overview of how this actually 361 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,080 works? When you go out in real world 362 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,720 where you have had a inherent goal for the brand and and sold 363 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,440 them the the story that tape, this is how it's going to be 364 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,160 represented and that's why you should support. 365 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:08,560 Sure. So come up with an idea, I think 366 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:13,720 to myself, OK, so let's go. Let's say, OK, I'm going to I'm 367 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,240 going to fly a paraglider across Canada, powered paraglider 368 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,840 across Canada. So back in the day, who's going 369 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,800 to see this? Who's going to be moved by it? 370 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:29,560 Who's going to care about it? OK, probably a lot of probably a 371 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,320 lot of kids are going to care about it because what kid 372 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,480 doesn't want to fly? Let's just be honest, right? 373 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,040 Like in some capacity, not to sound cliche, but like the dream 374 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,000 of flying. I feel like we have this, these 375 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,000 dreams, especially when we're young for some reason. 376 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,760 I don't know what it is, but it happens. 377 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,320 And when I was a kid, long before I I discovered 378 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,640 paragliding, like flying seemed like a really good idea to me. 379 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,120 Agreed. So am I going to fly literally 380 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:58,760 by the seat of my pants with a little fan attached to my back 381 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,320 across Canada? Who's going to care about that 382 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,400 the most? Kids. 383 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,520 OK, how can I connect with kids inside of doing that? 384 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:13,000 OK, why don't I do this to support children so that adults 385 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,320 who are responsible for children feel like incorporating me into 386 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,600 something that they're doing so that I, and then ultimately by 387 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,720 virtue of that, that I can actually reach those children? 388 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:26,600 OK, so now, OK, I'm going to paraglide across Canada, but I'm 389 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,800 not just going to paraglide across Canada powered, pardon 390 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,040 me, powered paraglide. I'm going to do it to support 391 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:34,680 children. OK? 392 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,040 When am I going to do it? I'm going to do it in the 393 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,600 summer. What are children doing in the 394 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:38,680 summer? They're going to summer camp. 395 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,840 OK. I'm going to do this to support 396 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,800 children going to summer camp. Does that feel good to me? 397 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,760 Yes, it does feel good to me. I went to summer camp and I went 398 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,960 to summer camp when I was a kid. That wasn't entirely paid for by 399 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,040 my family. It was actually partially paid 400 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,200 for by funding received from either the government or some 401 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,040 sort of outside donors. So let me create something that 402 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,760 gives back to that. That feels good to me. 403 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,200 I can actually get behind that and put extra umph into that 404 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,800 because of the value that I got there. 405 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,480 OK, so now we're going to paraglide across Canada. 406 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,360 We're going to, we're going to be interested in having kids see 407 00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:15,280 this and we're going to work with kids in order to make that 408 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,480 happen. OK, cool. 409 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,200 We're going to land at summer camps. 410 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,800 We're going to give inspiring conversations to children about 411 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,280 achieving their dreams while we're there. 412 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,200 Why don't we organize them into giant shapes on the ground, take 413 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,720 pictures of those shapes to create something that's visual, 414 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,040 that speaks 1000 words with the one picture, which is kids 415 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,440 having a good time at summer camp. 416 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,160 That's what this is all about. Now, finally, who's interested? 417 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,320 Who's aligned with summer camp? Who's who else is giving to 418 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,280 summer camp right now in Canada, people may or may not know our 419 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:56,160 stereotypical coffee chain Tim horton's. 420 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,040 That's their thing. They are the company that aligns 421 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,920 themself with that statement giving two kids going to summer 422 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,640 camp. They have every whatever, every 423 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,320 year, like kids go to camp week or something like that where 424 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,880 some portion of every doughnut, every coffee that you buy goes 425 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,200 to their charity that supports kids going to camp. 426 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:24,920 So finally now I'm going to design this project to meet 427 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,240 their existing branding so that they can see this project as a 428 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,920 one stop shop to increase what they're already doing. 429 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:40,120 They just need to throw 5, ten, $20,000 at it. 430 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:44,480 I'll give them options in order to buy into this additional 431 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,760 branding that they can use on top of what they're already 432 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,800 doing, on top of what they've already got the OK to spend 433 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,440 money on. And that should be our path of 434 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,680 least resistance. Are are you following? 435 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,240 100% I think this is, I have to say, take notes boys and girls, 436 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,640 because you are literally giving out one of the most effective 437 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,960 blueprints and how to make it happen. 438 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,880 And I feel like you've just given out a whole small little 439 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,640 monster cross and then finding sponsorships to to make your 440 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,000 dreams realize. And I don't know about how many 441 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,360 people in the audience are actually going ahead and doing 442 00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:21,640 it, but I definitely am taking notes and making it happen. 443 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,080 This seems like a beautiful way to give back something to the 444 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,040 sponsor and also have something for yourself and make your 445 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,680 dreams a reality while maintaining a fine balance. 446 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,720 Love it. It's worth saying, happy to hear 447 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,440 that. It's worth saying that in the 448 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,600 end, Tim horton's was not interested in this project. 449 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,280 The, the short of it is that they essentially said to me 450 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,200 after much door knocking and presenting to them virtually 451 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:56,160 that they already have a team of people working on this and 452 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,720 they're content with the amount of fundraising that they do. 453 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,720 And that's working for their business. 454 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,720 They don't need any extra fundraising to occur and they 455 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,160 don't need to incorporate with any external businesses in order 456 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,960 to do what they're doing. Which was very disheartening for 457 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,680 me at the time because I'm thinking to myself, what do you 458 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,080 mean you don't want to raise an additional 100,000 or possibly 459 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,560 million or $5 million by piggybacking on this 460 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:24,880 record-breaking flight across Canada that kids are gonna love 461 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,440 and that we could get tons of media around if we just would 462 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,640 hook up. But at the end, it just didn't 463 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,640 make business sense to them to do that. 464 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,400 And as painful as that was, trust me, it was painful to 465 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,560 spend months and months basically designing this project 466 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,200 to be exactly what they would want. 467 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,480 This is where expectation and and disappointment come in that 468 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:53,240 conversation to hear from them, hey, we don't need to raise more 469 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:54,440 money. Good luck. 470 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,720 Because I did that work. I still have the template and I 471 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,480 could still present that to other businesses which did come 472 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,240 on board. And they, they found their own 473 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,880 reasons, even if I couldn't necessarily see the exact 474 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,440 reason. And I didn't have anywhere near 475 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,480 the support that I need, but I did have enough in order to make 476 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,640 it happen. And it was important for me to 477 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,000 have that vision and to have the idea of Tim horton's, in this 478 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,520 case, supporting, because it allowed me to really flesh out 479 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,920 the whole thing and really create that sales package. 480 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:35,080 So that's two parts. One, that's how you would get a 481 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,720 brand like Tim horton's in an ideal world. 482 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:43,400 But this isn't an ideal world. And in the end, your failure is 483 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,800 still a success if you can frame it that way. 484 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,920 That you recognize that without them, without the inspiration of 485 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,320 working for them or working with them, you wouldn't have had all 486 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,920 of this come together and look like this nice, tidy package 487 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,360 that other people will buy. And that you yourself, as an 488 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,600 athlete and a filmmaker, you buy because you can see how 489 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,960 beautiful it is, right? God, and man, I think I'm so 490 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,920 glad I used the word master class for this because of course 491 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,720 you gave the blueprint on how to do things and you also gave the 492 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,040 blueprint at the second part of what to do when things don't go 493 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,880 right. So moving forward, I, I would 494 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,760 want to come to the most important part of like putting 495 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,320 together a project, which I'm, I'm pretty sure a lot of our 496 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,640 audience members are going to be curious about and that is 497 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,240 filming in flight. I, I just, I would love to have 498 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,000 a, have you talk over what kind of camera gears you showed, how, 499 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,200 how, what kind of short selections do you do? 500 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,120 Because to me, when GoPro and all the mounts and the selfie 501 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,880 sticks came across, they were like, they looked like a pretty 502 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:52,440 big safety hazard for me where they could snag lines and one 503 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,560 collapse could take away your destruction and send you a 504 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,720 scrambling for handling the selfie stick and everything. 505 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,800 Of course it has evolved over a period of time and now camera 506 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,200 shooting in 8K which can fit in your pocket and everything. 507 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,000 How have you navigated this aspect of filming in flight and 508 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,320 what's your usual go to set up and making all the possible 509 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:18,880 magical shots come together? Sure, it's a big subject because 510 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,680 all right, filming yourself in general would like, never mind 511 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,800 paragliding, but because it applies to paragliding for me, 512 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,240 for Phil, sorry, I'll say filming myself requires a lot of 513 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:42,000 self-discipline because so often I'm at least ideally I'm doing 514 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,240 something that I'm would be doing if the camera wasn't 515 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,720 there. And so that means that I'm just 516 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:49,280 excited about what it is that I'm doing. 517 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,520 And at some point if, when you're trying to create hundreds 518 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,960 of hours of footage to be able to edit it down into one hour, 519 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,680 an hour and a half of really great footage, you got to get 520 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:05,560 the camera out a lot. And so you might plan on walking 521 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,320 up this mountain and and averaging 5 kilometers an hour. 522 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,720 But the truth is if you want to be able to present that to 523 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,960 people later, you have to plan on moving at maybe more like 2 524 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,880 kilometers an hour because of all the time it takes to run 525 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,040 ahead. Get a tripod out, you get the 526 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,360 camera running, make sure the batteries are good, get the 527 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,520 audio going. And so that takes a lot of 528 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,120 self-discipline for me to slow myself down to create this 529 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:38,320 stuff. And especially takes that 530 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,400 self-discipline when I'm not feeling great 'cause when I'm 531 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,520 not feeling great, I don't have that skip in my step. 532 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,160 Like maybe it's raining, maybe I just had a bad flight, maybe I'm 533 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,560 really tired, maybe I'm super dehydrated. 534 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,480 That's happened. And I all I can do is think 535 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,360 about getting to the next potential lake or, or stream. 536 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,200 But I have to realize that those moments where I'm really not 537 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:10,040 doing well, those are vital in film making because we or I tend 538 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,280 to get the camera out when I'm doing great. 539 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,640 And I just love the world and I love myself and I love my 540 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:21,880 project and I want to share it, but without the sad, awkward, 541 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,240 difficult, painful moments in between that becomes very 542 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,880 redundant in a, in an edited piece. 543 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,800 And so that's the first thing is just to recognize like, hey, it 544 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,920 should be really easy in theory, but in practice it's just 545 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,000 actually really hard. And it requires a kind of 546 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,320 self-discipline that I barely have and often don't. 547 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:50,920 So now moving on to paragliding. It can be dangerous to be 548 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,440 preoccupied with cameras. It can be dangerous to have 549 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,440 things strapped to us that can impact our our lines or our 550 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,240 reserve system or or whatever. So a lot of that thought needs 551 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,360 to be put into that. And I feel like safety is top 552 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,960 notch, not top notch is of the highest order. 553 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:16,280 And it's important to find things that partly for the 554 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,360 reasons of that, if things are hard, we won't do them like I 555 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,800 was talking about on the ground. But also if things are require 556 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,080 too much time or thought, they're not really safe when 557 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:33,240 you're dangling from 30 string above a mouth, you need to have 558 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,080 them be really easy and you need to be able to do them 559 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,480 blindfolded. So as far as filming while 560 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,520 paragliding, coming up with creative ideas that maybe you 561 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,280 haven't seen before or maybe you have, but that are really easy 562 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,120 to achieve. Like you can do them in 10 563 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,720 seconds, 15 seconds set. In terms of setting them up, 564 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,440 often I don't launch with my cameras out. 565 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,280 I have to release them once I'm paragliding. 566 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,760 That's really important is to have things that you can do 567 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,360 quickly so that you don't, it doesn't require a ton of 568 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,600 self-discipline to get them out and then likely bring them back 569 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:15,000 in before you land. But also that don't require a 570 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,920 ton of time because you don't usually have that much to. 571 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,360 I usually don't have that much time where I feel like I can fly 572 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,080 without having my hands and my toggles and be completely in the 573 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,840 game as far as, OK, where's my bomb out? 574 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,560 Where's my next thermal right? Now that that makes a lot of 575 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,120 sense, I think. Have you been just using action 576 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,440 comes for this or have you ever switched to what is it single 577 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,199 lens DSLR or something like that? 578 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,880 Or what kind of hardware do you usually use to tell your stories 579 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,040 as the technology has evolved? OK, yeah, sure, I could talk 580 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:50,199 about that. So on my last film that I've 581 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:58,640 released so far, Fly Monarch, I have a, it's the Sony RX 104th 582 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,960 edition. I used, I've been, I've actually 583 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,040 been using that one for almost 10 years. 584 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:09,320 I, I keep buying the same one because I, I break them, I wear 585 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:15,360 them out, they shoot 4K. They are like mini DSLR. 586 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,680 They have a lot of manual options. 587 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,720 It's not the best that you're ever going to see, but it's way 588 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:27,080 better than a phone or at least phones at the time or GoPro or 589 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,080 what have you. So that in combination with the 590 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:35,560 tripod is how I do I'd say 75% of my terrestrial stuff. 591 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,120 The rest would be using Gopros on selfie sticks, gimbals and 592 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,400 stuff like that. And then in the sky, it's pretty 593 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:47,920 much entirely GoPro footage with the exception of as you'll see 594 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,480 in Fly Menarcha and a little bit in The Endless Chain. 595 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,200 But really in Fly Menarcha, where I had the privilege of 596 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,200 having my now wife accompany me as a filmmaker on her own 597 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,800 autonomously in a van, she would hike up and capture a lot of 598 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:04,720 very helpful drone footage of me. 599 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:10,640 So I don't want it forget to say that, but as far as me, that was 600 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,200 separate from what I was doing, right? 601 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:19,000 So what I'm doing is Gopros. I rely on three shots that I 602 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,880 really like that I can set up pretty quick. 603 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:26,320 The easiest is a 360 Cam that I jam. 604 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,960 So like the GoPro 360, whatever it's called, I just jam that 605 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,920 into the flip plate. That's the quickest one. 606 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:40,120 I have another one on a arm like it has, it articulates by two 607 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,240 hinges, so it's got 3 sections and then on that there's a 608 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:46,600 gimbal and then another GoPro that's shooting me. 609 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,600 But I can also turn the gimbal around to shoot forward or to 610 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,440 the side. Both of those I can activate by 611 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,520 hand in terms of starting and stopping them. 612 00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:00,480 And then finally the most complex one for me to get out is 613 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,560 a let's just call it a follow Cam. 614 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,760 I think that would be the accept the term for that, which I keep 615 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,760 in my harness in the side pocket. 616 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,160 And then once I feel very comfortable and I'm at some 617 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,440 point in the flight that feels like it really needs to be 618 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,400 documented that way, I'll release that and that'll fly 619 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,840 behind me. Usually on the left side, it's 620 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,680 biased towards the left wing tip is where I'm comfortable with 621 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,000 it. And I'll pay that out after I've 622 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,000 launched and then I'll I actually have a thing that I can 623 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,560 bring it back in when I'm landing because sometimes you 624 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,520 don't want something like that out there when you're landing. 625 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,920 Partly because it'll break, but mostly because I'm terrified of 626 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,560 having it get caught on a branch or something like that and then 627 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,240 causing a deflation. That one runs on AI. 628 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,600 Think it uses Bluetooth, either Wi-Fi or Bluetooth, I'm not 629 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,400 sure, but it's just like the standard GoPro remote that you 630 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,440 can. I have that on my cockpit and so 631 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,120 those are the three shots for me plus whatever my wife was able 632 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:08,200 to capture on our last film with the drone and then also audio. 633 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,840 So the same little it's called the Zoom H1. 634 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,440 I don't know if they make them anymore. 635 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:20,160 Maybe it's H1N, but anything I was is better than what you can 636 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,880 get on your camera. It's just a little recorder. 637 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,400 I'll have a lapel mic with a little dead cat, they call it 638 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,960 Hairball, that goes over the mic to cut down on wind. 639 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,560 And I'll just clip that to either my buff or my inside of 640 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:36,840 my jacket or something like that. 641 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,880 And the sound is a little bit muffled, but I feel like that's 642 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,400 a part of the authenticity of the shot. 643 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:47,200 And so when I'm setting up my shots, let's just say I, I get 644 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,520 three out of three cameras running for a shot, I'll say, 645 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:58,120 OK, flying over Mount Nemo and then I'll just give a three clap 646 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:00,880 and then that'll sync up all of my cameras and my audio. 647 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,240 And then I'll be able to edit that later on. 648 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,440 And I'll just talk about something. 649 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,400 And ironically, usually I don't use any of the talking because 650 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,320 it's just garbage, but it's there in case I do need it. 651 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,360 And sometimes I do use it. And when it is good, it's really 652 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,960 good. And that, pretty much that's the 653 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,560 secret sauce. I love it, man. 654 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,400 I think sometimes the emotions that come out during the flight 655 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:26,640 are one of the most authentic ones. 656 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,680 So I think as you said, when it's good, it's really good. 657 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,640 This is the way to go. But Benjamin, what is the thing 658 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,360 that makes you pull back the Chase gum? 659 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,240 What kind of mechanism do you use for that? 660 00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:39,840 Because I've been using Change Chase Camp myself, but once I 661 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,320 release it, I just basically have to wait until it goes to 662 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:44,560 landing. Can you tell me something about 663 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:45,840 that? Are you? 664 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:51,360 Yeah, OK, for The Endless Chain, which is the following film, I 665 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:57,680 developed a A2 part system. The most important part of it 666 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,680 was I created a pulley system where now I instead of just 667 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,840 having the string, the fishing line run from the paraglider 668 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:11,000 down to the chase Cam, I have it run up to essentially what is 669 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,280 just like a key ring or a little carabiner, like a baby carabiner 670 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,640 on the paraglider. But I recommend using like a key 671 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,920 loop so that nothing can clip into it. 672 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,680 And then that runs back down to my own carabiner from my 673 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:33,960 paraglider and I can release the camera and then I can pull that 674 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,080 pulley and I pull it up let's just say 5678 meters. 675 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:44,600 And then I attach a little pre made loop on that, that fishing 676 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,920 string that all of a sudden I see the loop and I attach that. 677 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,600 Now all of a sudden my camera is way higher than it was when I 678 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,760 released it and it's way higher than it would be able to be when 679 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,800 I launch because it's it's too short. 680 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,760 And then there's a third line and the OR I guess a second line 681 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,040 and the second line goes from the camera also back to that 682 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:08,760 same carabiner, but it goes straight. 683 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:14,440 So when I am done flying or when I'm about to land and I want it 684 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:19,200 back in, I'll release that little loop on the pulley system 685 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,560 so that now the camera falls back down to where it's too low 686 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,160 to get a good shot. I'm done shooting and but it but 687 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,840 it's long enough to make it all the way back to my harness. 688 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,320 It's longer than my paragliding lines. 689 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,520 And then I'll pull in the little string that goes from directly 690 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,520 from the the follow Cam to my harness and then I'll put it 691 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:40,400 back in the. Box. 692 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,760 So basically it's it's some kind of a triangle which which goes 693 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,040 between your lower surface and around the centers and around 694 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,920 the sea risers. That's right. 695 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,000 That, yeah, that that's, yes, it's a triangle. 696 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,040 The top part has a pulley so I can adjust the height of how 697 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,600 it's with where it's flies. Damn, that's smart man. 698 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,600 You should try and sell that system because I'm pretty sure 699 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,000 there are a lot of people out there looking for that kind of 700 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:05,840 solutions. Got it. 701 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,960 I think as we approach the end of this part of the episode, one 702 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,680 challenge or one new aspect from what I see that has come up with 703 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,120 content creation is that short form has picked up so much in 704 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,120 today's world that we all know attention spans are reducing. 705 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,440 Social media is to blame up to some extent and everything 706 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:28,080 around it, but a lot of people are just settling in for short 707 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,760 form content and long form isn't really becoming that viable 708 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,920 anymore. So do you have any advice for 709 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,480 the budding film makers or content creators? 710 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,920 Of course chasing heart and doing what makes sense to you is 711 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,200 how it should be. But if you were to start now 712 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,640 with all of these dreams in today's world and in today's 713 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:54,520 age, how would like how can somebody try and mimic your rate 714 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,480 of success with the current industry trends and make sense 715 00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,480 with? I don't know, I feel like in 716 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,800 some ways I feel like a bit of a dinosaur because when I look 717 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,920 around me and I, I see the way people interact with media, 718 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:15,960 especially young people, I don't feel like I would have done very 719 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,000 well as a human being growing up today. 720 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:21,400 And that's not to sound resigned. 721 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:27,080 I I appreciate I am a dinosaur and dinosaurs don't that they're 722 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,080 about to go with this thing to. I feel like there's a lot for me 723 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,000 to learn to be able to properly answer that question. 724 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:42,800 But I feel at the same time that short form is because it works 725 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,160 because people need a distraction, but they're really 726 00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,600 busy so they don't. They want to lose themselves for 727 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,280 5 minutes because they have 5 minutes and they don't want to 728 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,240 think about what's going on in their life and what they need to 729 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:57,720 do. Clean up their room, pay their 730 00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:02,600 bills, apologize to this person or go and do this. 731 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,520 Change the oil on their car, whatever it is that they don't 732 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,600 want to think about. That's in their head, but 733 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:11,080 normally for 5 minutes. And so that serves a purpose. 734 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,200 And I feel like there's always been a solution for that, 735 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,800 whether it was the radio, the television, and people using 736 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,640 those things for short periods of time. 737 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:27,080 I appreciate because of the way that this has happened, our 738 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,320 attention spans, even as adults have dwindled significantly. 739 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:39,840 But I think that the key to so many of the things and being 740 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,040 that I've done, being as successful as they were, is that 741 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,320 somehow finding a way to really make people care, really make 742 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,880 people care about it. And I actually can't even really 743 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:59,200 take credit for realizing how important that was going back to 744 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,000 skateboarding across Canada. I, as well as three other young 745 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,440 gentlemen put this together and I can't even take credit for how 746 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,720 it started because I got on board at the last minute as the 747 00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:14,040 documentary maker and essentially became the 4th 748 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,480 skateboarder. We did this for the Canadian 749 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:22,200 Breast Cancer Society and we raised a ton of money for breast 750 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,960 cancer and a lot of awareness for breast cancer occurring in 751 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,920 more and more frequently in younger women who wouldn't have 752 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:30,480 thought that they would be susceptible. 753 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,840 And so there we are doing this thing. 754 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,880 We've got this theme, these pink ribbons, Canadian Breast Cancer 755 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,400 Society. And I remember on a message 756 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,840 board from Toronto, I had published some content and some 757 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,840 guy said it was a nice comment from a friend of mine. 758 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:53,240 He said of course Ben would be the one to skateboard across 759 00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:56,160 Canada and somehow find a way to make people care about it. 760 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:00,560 That's what he said. And I realized like, hey, he's 761 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,640 right. But also he's looking at this 762 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,880 and thinking if I did this, nobody would care. 763 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,040 I cause truth be told, he could have also done it. 764 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,320 He had the time, he had the skill he had, would have had the 765 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,960 desire to do all of this stuff, but he didn't have a way to make 766 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,200 anyone care about why he was doing it. 767 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,040 And here it just fell into my lap. 768 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,480 And then it became obvious to me after the fact we were doing it 769 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:33,040 for young women. We were 425 year old 770 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,920 skateboarders skateboarding across Canada to support the 771 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:40,640 health of young women's breasts. There is no more tongue in cheek 772 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:43,800 project that I could have imagined being a part of. 773 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,520 But it really made people care. It really made people think. 774 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:53,400 It really made people talk. That I feel is the important 775 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:58,800 part of every project. If we take a look at this last 776 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,760 one, the story of the monarch butterfly, there's no way to 777 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,240 tell that short form. Maybe there is by someone else, 778 00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:09,480 but for me, that's a huge undertaking that they have to 779 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,760 fly across the United States to Mexico or and back again. 780 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,920 And so in order for me to tell that story, the only way to tell 781 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,680 that is long form. And I think that someone who 782 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,880 sees the trailer for that film will recognize that, whoa, this 783 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,720 is huge. This isn't just someone going 784 00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:30,880 and flying above the clouds. And wow, that's pretty. 785 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,880 And that has its place. And it will only take a few 786 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,360 minutes to showcase that I do have content like that. 787 00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:42,320 But these real stories that really make you think and that 788 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:46,480 really take you to a new place, like your podcasts, you can't 789 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,800 get there in less than an hour. And I feel like it's important 790 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,560 just to take a look at what we're doing and to see, ask 791 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:55,520 yourself, why is someone going to care? 792 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,840 And if we can't answer that, then we need to keep thinking 793 00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:59,400 about that. But as soon as we figure it 794 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,640 figure that out, that's when we can start to engage in telling a 795 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,680 story that's going to ask someone for an hour of their 796 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,800 life. Wow, man, it's like poetry and 797 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,840 motion when you put it across so beautifully because it's all 798 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,560 true and it all makes a lot of sense. 799 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:19,240 It's just a choice of realizing it and becoming aware of that, 800 00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:24,560 which is seemingly so easy. But again, we as even as adults 801 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,400 are reducing having our attention spans go haywire. 802 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,600 Something as simple as that is, is often overlooked. 803 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,200 But I think on that note, Benjamin, we pretty much have 804 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,280 covered everything that we could wish for when it comes to flying 805 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,280 and filming. And on behalf of all my audience 806 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,560 and the ones who are going to listen to the end to this in 807 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:49,000 future, I massive heartfelt thanks for sharing all this 808 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,520 valuable gold for free. Of course, man. 809 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,680 And as I said in the beginning of the show, one or two podcasts 810 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,560 are not enough to cover all of your adventures. 811 00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:00,120 So we on Parallel Atlas would love to bring you back for a 812 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,280 storytelling episode for all the other adventures you have 813 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:04,920 chosen. But we we're probably going to 814 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:09,840 have to save that one for later. But for now, it's been an honor 815 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,280 man, thanks a ton. Thank you so much for having me, 816 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,560 this has just been so great.