1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,680 We're going to have some setbacks along the way, but 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,920 setbacks aren't campsites. We've taken some wild swings 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:06,440 over the. Years. 4 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,200 It seems like all my good mischief involves Miles Adcocks 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,120 at some point. I think if you've mastered any 6 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:14,840 craft, it's taking a risk and going to do things. 7 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,880 I'm the only guy in Somalia wearing a white dress came 8 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,640 running in and said code rainbow. 9 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,560 It was not a rainbow that happened in the pools. 10 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,720 Fail trying, don't fail watching. 11 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,520 When I can have compassion and empathy on myself, it makes it 12 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,840 sustainable for me to be able to give that to other people. 13 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,680 Don't beat yourself up. I just keep on repeating myself. 14 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:41,280 I'm not a pinata because when you hit yourself, it's not candy 15 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:43,680 that comes out you. It's like code rainbow, right? 16 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,560 So take what it is that you're known for and take that away, 17 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,480 and whatever's left is who you are. 18 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,440 This friendship has stood the test of time and also we've 19 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,440 leaned into the hard edges in the dark corners. 20 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,680 You've known me in some of my darkest times. 21 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,280 I've learned a lot about friendship from the way we've 22 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,320 navigated our relationship over the years. 23 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,239 You kidding me? I'd walk across broken glass for 24 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:06,720 you. But we've probably done that for 25 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,680 each other at some point. For the limited period of time 26 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,760 that we have left, let's go make some moves. 27 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,600 We've been taught everything except how to be human. 28 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,120 I'm Miles Adcox, and this podcast turns raw experience 29 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,960 into practical wisdom. So if you're ready to stop 30 00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:27,360 performing your life and start participating in it, you're in 31 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,480 the right place. This is human school. 32 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:36,000 Purpose is one of those things we all think about, but far 33 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,040 fewer of us actually live into it. 34 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,400 Because living into it usually asks something of us. 35 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,600 It asks us to take risk, to step into the unknown, to do things 36 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,240 that feel out of reach. And every now and then you meet 37 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,880 someone who just says yes to that. 38 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,880 Today's guest is one of those people for me. 39 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,920 Most people know him for the life he's built. 40 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,320 A2 time, New York Times bestselling author and honorary 41 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,640 consul to Uganda and the founder of Love Does, one of my favorite 42 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,200 NGOs and nonprofits that advocates for children, 43 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,520 education, and communities and conflict zones across the globe 44 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,840 for the past 24 years. That's hard to believe. 45 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,480 But what people may not always see is the depth behind all of 46 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:18,840 it. We've travelled the world 47 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:20,680 together. We've shared some really 48 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,320 meaningful moments along the way. 49 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:25,320 And somewhere in the middle of all that, a genuine friendship 50 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,480 took shape, one that I've come to value more with time. 51 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,800 He's the kind of person who shows up when it counts, Steady, 52 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:34,600 present, with a heart that's always looking for a way to 53 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,040 serve and support others. That's who he is, and I am so 54 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,320 grateful to call him one of my dearest friends. 55 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,920 Please welcome to human school my buddy Bob Cough. 56 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,680 Hey, thanks, Miles. So good to be with you, buddy. 57 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,200 Good to be with you too. Any excuse? 58 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,040 Still do, but this is even a better one. 59 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,000 I remember when human school was some of you were kind of pushing 60 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,200 the peas around on the plate, and so now it's like actually a 61 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,160 thing. I'm so proud. 62 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:58,840 Thank you and thank you for making time to come. 63 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:00,720 I know you're not doing many of these anymore. 64 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,200 The the podcast and interviews and the speaking back a few 65 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,000 years ago, you were burning up the road, you know, giving, 66 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:08,880 giving parts of your wisdom to everybody. 67 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,560 So it means even more that you'd come have a conversation with 68 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,000 me, especially across the country. 69 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,480 So you. Kid me, I'd walk a class across 70 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,200 broken glass for you. We've probably done that for 71 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:19,200 each other at some. Point. 72 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,040 Well, this is, you know, with any new endeavor and I still 73 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,840 feel like we're in the new part of the season of the show. 74 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,160 You know, you get started with friends and I've, I've been 75 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,520 fortunate. I've, I've peppered in a few 76 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,560 guests that haven't been close friends and a couple that I were 77 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,720 just meeting for the first time. But for the most part, I've 78 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,200 tried to anchor this thing with friends because I really, I 79 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,880 think if anything, if there's any tool for humanity that can 80 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,120 make it better, it's relationships and friendships. 81 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,640 And I don't know where this will go, but I can tell you if 82 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,120 there's a theme I thought about coming into it as I'm sitting in 83 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,040 front of one of my really close friends. 84 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,240 And I think I've learned a lot about friendship from the way 85 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,880 we've navigated our relationship over the years. 86 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,040 And I know they'll be some proof for people to take from that. 87 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:06,080 But you, there's probably some stories that I'd love for you to 88 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:09,800 share that I remember you and I were talking when you were 89 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,760 mentoring me as a speaker early on. 90 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,400 Because I do believe you're one of the greatest storytellers 91 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,079 I've I've ever been around. You just do it. 92 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:20,000 So naturally it just falls out and you, you said I, I get 93 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:21,360 tired. I do so much. 94 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,000 I get tired of telling the same stories and I'm always wanting 95 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,800 to come up with new stories. Then I even said, then I said I 96 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,760 said yes and, and no. I said in a way, the reason I 97 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,880 like to go see Garth Brooks play is I know I'm going to get his 98 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,400 greatest hits and we talked you. Remember that conversation? 99 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:39,800 It kind of gave both of us a break. 100 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,040 It's like, you know what? There's some anchor stories that 101 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,960 we both have that we should never shy away from, you know, 102 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,440 because they kind of define who we are and who we're becoming. 103 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,400 And I'm curious for you. There's lots of stories I could 104 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,040 tell about you. There's lots of stories you 105 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,520 could tell, many of which have been in a book and lots of 106 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,440 people have read. But is there an anchor story 107 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,360 that has formed or continues to shape who you are, what you've 108 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,120 done, and who you continue to become? 109 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,360 Yeah, I think of the a thing that you and I started ages ago, 110 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,400 I don't know, for 8-9 years ago out at San Quentin. 111 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,800 Remember, we went the first time and we were teaching a class 112 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,640 there and then the classes continued. 113 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,800 We're just some of these guys have graduated, they've paroled 114 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:26,120 out and actually one of them, one of my friends there has 115 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,360 paroled into San Diego. Oh really? 116 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,160 Because I'm there, I'm 100% of his friends. 117 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,360 And today, because I've been traveling, he's only called me 4 118 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,880 times. But it was the interesting 119 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,120 thing. It was yesterday, it was the 120 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,000 first time he's washing his clothes in 27 years, nine months 121 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,360 and days he hasn't had to wash his own clothes. 122 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,240 And so he's like, what do you do? 123 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:51,600 And I'm like, well, I don't know. 124 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,960 All my white shirts are pink. I guess I don't know how to do 125 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,200 that. But it's just to learn all the 126 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:04,160 pieces, maybe learning among the things that I'm trying to get my 127 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,480 mind around his context for each person. 128 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,240 Because we think that we share a common context, but we actually 129 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:16,080 don't because people have, you know, undisclosed or hurts that 130 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,600 they're just becoming aware of. And they have things that have 131 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,480 gone great that they bring into it. 132 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,560 And so just understanding those things that I think those are 133 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,200 the stories that are most meaningful to me right now. 134 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,440 We had a gathering out at the Oaks, which is another caper you 135 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,640 and I have done. It seems like all my good 136 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,640 mischief involves Miles Adcocks at some point. 137 00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:41,240 But we had all these guys that have paroled out and at one time 138 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,400 we were had him down doing the cold punch and there's a whole 139 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,120 bunch of tubs with all the ice in it. 140 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,560 And the guys went out there. When I went down there was like 141 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,360 they're doing synchronized swimming because they're all 142 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,800 their left legs were out. It's because they're ankle 143 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,080 bracelets. Context. 144 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:03,400 So just understanding how it came to pass. 145 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,240 I think that's what I'm trying to do now, be as a trial lawyer 146 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,800 in a former life, you make quick judgments about who people are. 147 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,400 I think we do that, and this is more your field than mine. 148 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,200 But are people safe? Are they not safe? 149 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,040 And then you have an experience of somebody who you thought was 150 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:21,920 safe and then they're actually, oh, Yikes. 151 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,120 They're like, not safe. And how do you navigate that? 152 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,360 I'm so glad that there's people like you and your team that help 153 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,240 people figure out that how tricky people are and how our 154 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:38,200 minds plays tricks on us. But this fella came, he's in for 155 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,840 17 counts of armed robbery. I'm not going to say his name, 156 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,160 but he's, you know, I don't know, maybe 38. 157 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:52,080 He's been in San Quentin for 20 years and just got out and I let 158 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:56,920 him bring a + 1. And when we sat down to some 159 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,360 stools in the front with all the other guys there and I said, 160 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:01,680 like, hey, what are you dreaming about? 161 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,320 Like what do you want your next move to be? 162 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,480 And he said what it was and had some people already in the back 163 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:10,360 on GoDaddy and they got a domain name for him and they set up 164 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,120 emails, all that. And I turned to his girlfriend, 165 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,040 his plus one, and said, is that amazing? 166 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,400 You know what your boyfriend has done? 167 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:24,000 And she said, I'm his mom. She had him when she was 15. 168 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,080 Context. And his 17 counts of armed 169 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,880 robbery. He decided he was in Oakland and 170 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:35,280 decided he wanted an Xbox. So he went and to a GameStop and 171 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,000 swiped an Xbox. But he had a pistol in his 172 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,360 waistband when he did it. And he had no business swiping 173 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,240 anything from anybody. And he sure didn't have business 174 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,920 having a gun on him. Then he got home. 175 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,440 He's like, no games. So he went to another GameStop 176 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,160 and swiped a game, but he had a pistol in his waistband. 177 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,920 He did that. He did this 15 more times. 17 178 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:05,240 counts of armed robbery, 20 years total haul, $1100 cost to 179 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,000 keep him in San Quentin, $98,000 a year. 180 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,720 Not in indictment of the prison system, but it's some context. 181 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,120 So if we meet people, we think we got them figured when we say 182 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,920 like 17 counts of armed robbery, like, you know, you shake hands, 183 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,360 you want to count your fingers, but then you understand a little 184 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,760 bit more context. You get to know them and know 185 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,840 this is his mom and maybe more context. 186 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,840 And I think just slowing it down a little bit where right now 187 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,080 we're in a hurry to get everybody figured out or so we 188 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,200 think. And I just like to slow it down 189 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,000 a little bit again. How do you do that? 190 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,480 Well, it seems like a, a superpower of yours and I've 191 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,680 chosen a field that kind of requires that as a first move. 192 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,480 You know, if we're going to do anything to try to help you sort 193 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,920 through the hard parts of your story and connect dots in your 194 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,960 life to ideally optimize who you are, your relationships, your 195 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,360 faith, your health. It's we got to build a bridge 196 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,360 and a bridge doesn't get built without a lot of trust. 197 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,280 And how many people are going to cross one unless you trust, it's 198 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,920 not going to fall. And so how do we build trust? 199 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:08,720 Well, you got to 1st build connection. 200 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,760 How do you build connection? Well, it never starts with 201 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,440 judgment. It always starts with an empathy 202 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,640 and, and, and somebody's curious about context in somebody else's 203 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,080 life. So I feel like I'm naturally 204 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,720 wired to do that as well. And I've done it as a vocation. 205 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:26,200 One of the things I really respect about you. 206 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,400 Well, you asked me how, so let me let me think about how I 207 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,560 think to refine that skill. I do think there are people who 208 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:40,280 naturally have it, but I think to refine it and to make it 209 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,160 sustainable because I don't always hold it the way I'd like 210 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:44,200 to hold it. I'm a human. 211 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:46,280 Sometimes I do get judgy, especially at home. 212 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,800 That's the hardest. I'm not to but to walk to keep 213 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,040 an open stance about people who have maybe have done some things 214 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,960 that I might even not appreciate and still be able to see the 215 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,640 human behind that. I have to see clearly the human 216 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,360 in me that's still trying to find their way. 217 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,240 And it that took some time because there was a part of me 218 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:15,320 that felt misunderstood in a season of life, even by myself. 219 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,040 I was a little bit lost. I got a little bit and I had to 220 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,240 go back and develop a good relationship with that part. 221 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,000 And I still have to do that over and over again when I get 222 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,280 insecure, when I get unsteady, when I get out over my skis, 223 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,720 when I make mistakes. The, the old part of me would've 224 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,880 been hyper critical of that. The new part of me is like, it's 225 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:35,840 all right, but we, we got it. We know what we're doing. 226 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,640 And when I can have compassion and empathy on myself, it makes 227 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,080 it sustainable for me to be able to give that to other people. 228 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,080 So that's part of my health. Yeah, part of the thing 229 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,560 borrowing from a a mutual friend of our Mike Foster, he talks 230 00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:52,600 about being on to yourself and just know your tells. 231 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,440 If you and I were playing poker right now Tennessee, we should 232 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,600 be like 5 cards stout or something. 233 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,640 If I had four of a kind, I would be just I would just be cracking 234 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:03,880 up. I could not. 235 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,080 I got no poker face when it comes to that. 236 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,800 I'd be just so tickled about the whole thing. 237 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,480 I'd probably tell you I'd show them to you if you're like check 238 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,760 this out, but to know what your tells are and they. 239 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,200 So if you find yourself going back, if you've been wounded, 240 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,160 you've been really helpful for me and this like back to the 241 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,400 scene of the crime. And then even though the little 242 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:32,280 chalk outline of your emotions or back there 5 or 6 years, like 243 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,920 you bring it forward today, like it just happened. 244 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,760 Like you're just like and you feel it and the other person has 245 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,440 probably moved on. They're doing all kinds of other 246 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,720 things. But you are back at that emotion 247 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,960 at that time and you're feeling it like it just happened. 248 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,200 So I find being on to myself, if I'm like overreacting to 249 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,640 something, I'm not reacting to what just happened. 250 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,480 I'm reacting to my entire life. And so to realize is that like 251 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,640 or if you're under reacting to say, minimizing somebody that 252 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,960 matters to you passes away and then you can't shed a tears 253 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,160 because what is up? Just being on to yourself, 254 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:17,360 knowing that maybe this is you, that you've got to figure this 255 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:21,440 out a little at a time. And so finding people that can 256 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,000 help you, I think less guide and more Sherpa, you know, like the 257 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,400 guy just going to pick them out and you go up and make all the 258 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,800 meals. But a Sherpa will let you pick 259 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,400 your mountain. And I think that's what you do 260 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,400 it on site. You say what mountain you want 261 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,360 to climb and then you just have ruffled through my backpack all 262 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,600 the time and you just say you don't need those 9 ropes, I can 263 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,560 help you get there. And a good Sherpa will break 264 00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:48,800 trail and set the ropes and say you want to get up there faster. 265 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,200 I would carry a little bit less and then I just go follow these 266 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,600 ropes, yeah. One thing I got to say that you 267 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,280 helped me strike a better balance around early in our 268 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,200 friendship is here's two guys that came together and I love 269 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:04,600 our origin story about how we met. 270 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,840 We may end up telling it later, but we came together an unlikely 271 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,080 time. Unlikely friends in a way came 272 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,200 from different parts of the world and and we're doing 273 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,560 different things, but we had one thing in common. 274 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:18,040 We loved helping and serving people and that was at the time 275 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,640 how both of us were making our living and, and trying to live 276 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,040 our lives, not just the people around us, but a wider circle. 277 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,600 But how we went about helping people was different. 278 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,440 I was coming through the lens of psychology and you were coming 279 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,440 through another lens and both had interesting pieces. 280 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,840 But early on when I would say we were getting to know each other 281 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,280 and you were pushing into my lane a little bit, like tell me 282 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,320 about this, tell me about this. Just questioning some of the 283 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,200 things they were right to be questioned. 284 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,880 So I want to bring that up right now, which is I think our 285 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,800 industry in some ways mainstream psychology has done a great job 286 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,880 at helping drive home the point of self-awareness and how it's 287 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,760 important understand yourself. Like what was it you said 288 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,760 Fosters Line was? Just beyond to. 289 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,640 Yourself beyond to yourself like we're talking, but if you're not 290 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:09,760 careful and all you do is focus on focus on you and all you do 291 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,840 is study yourself, you'll go from being self aware to self 292 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,280 absorbed. And I think you helped me early 293 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,760 on because you asked me that question. 294 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,880 You said, I get the concept of really understanding your origin 295 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,400 story, going back into it. How does it show up in real 296 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,720 time? But how do you not get stuck 297 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,520 studying your belly button? I think is what you said one 298 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,360 time a long time ago. And I was like, it's a great 299 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,600 point. And I think as I've evolved and 300 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,040 grown in my field, I would say that is one of the downsides to 301 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,520 mainstream therapy, even though I think there's way more upside, 302 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:41,400 is that if there's not an element of other in the mix, in 303 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,240 the origin, I think for some people, often their medicator is 304 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,600 other. So they're chasing other people 305 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:46,840 trying to reconcile their own story. 306 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,400 Hello. I've done that a lot. 307 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,600 But I think you've got to strike that balance so that 308 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,520 self-awareness doesn't become self absorbed. 309 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,320 Yeah, you help me get there. You know, I get that idea. 310 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,240 Yeah, I've always pictures you were saying that an hourglass, 311 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,880 and there's the sand that's up on top and there's the sand on 312 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,880 the bottom. So like, you know, some people 313 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,640 are just talking about the sand that's already gone through the 314 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,640 funnel and that's a good thing. You should be aware, well aware 315 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,480 of that. And I probably err on the side 316 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,680 of what might be possible in the future, probably to the 317 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:24,600 exclusion of the pain of what they're just because it's just 318 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,480 so painful to go back to that stuff. 319 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,840 There's like, am I wanted, you know, be feeling misunderstood 320 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,360 and all that. And I just realized we're just 321 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,600 going to be misunderstood 'cause say you and I were in Mogadishu, 322 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,440 Somalia together. I, I've yet to go and not get 323 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,760 shot at. So just hear what it's like. 324 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:47,560 It's not like they're aiming at you. 325 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,280 It's just like a really violent hello. 326 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,120 So I don't blend. So like that idea of being 327 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,200 misunderstood just for no other reason, you haven't even said 328 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,400 anything to anybody. But to put yourself in those 329 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,240 places where you're willing to be misunderstood. 330 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,880 That actually whether faith guides your steps might put you 331 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,119 in those things, those positions, whether it's your 332 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,119 love for humanity and sign me up for all those things. 333 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:20,440 Faith is a big deal for me trying to be like just up for 334 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,960 humanities, like love people and I fail at it all the time 335 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,599 constantly. So you have this high value and 336 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:29,840 then you miss it all the time. And then one of the guys that 337 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,400 wrote a letter, Paul, he's like, I keep not doing what I want to 338 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,400 do and I don't get around to do what I do. 339 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:40,200 That's just Tuesday for me Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and 340 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,240 a long weekend and we repeat again. 341 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,040 So to instead of beating yourself up, I've learned 342 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,560 through you and some good friends just said power of just 343 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,760 acceptance that we're deeply flawed. 344 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,520 And yeah, not resigning to that, but to say, hey, what might be 345 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,760 possible? Well, you, when I asked you for 346 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,800 for a story, a foundational story, you went straight into a 347 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,480 story of, of stepping in to try to understand the misunderstood 348 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:13,080 and to try to love in many cases, the unlovable, IE you 349 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:14,880 know, going straight into San Quentin. 350 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,000 But as I think back, we've done that since I've known you. 351 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,160 Mogadishu was one stop talk about being misunderstood. 352 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,040 When we went to Iraq the first time, it was, I think it was 353 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,000 your second time maybe. And I went the first time or I 354 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,080 can't remember maybe in our first time where we were going. 355 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,080 But I I did a little homework and I was like, I'd better grow 356 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:33,440 a beard. I want to blend in. 357 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,760 We were we were in northern Iraq with the Kurds. 358 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,000 And I got off the airplane and I saw no men with beards. 359 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,080 The video was like, where's a razor? 360 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:48,560 I know the first time I, I went to Somalia, I, I got a hold. 361 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,480 There's a Somali community in San Diego. 362 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,360 I said, hey, what should I wear to kind of, you know, blend in? 363 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,600 And there's this thing, it's called a kanzu. 364 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:02,160 It's like a white dress, but like dudes wear it and they say 365 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,120 you'd need a kanzu. So I gave the guy 30 bucks. 366 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,560 I got a white dress. I stepped off the plane. 367 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:12,880 I'm the only guy in Somalia wearing a white dress I can 368 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,240 like. No, I remember we got we got 369 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,480 tailored suits because that interact too. 370 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:20,960 I can't remember. It's one of the countries we 371 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,240 stopped in. We got tailored suits from this 372 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,640 really great Arab tailor and I've still got mine. 373 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,360 I don't fit in anymore, but I actually I never wore it past 374 00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:32,200 that one day, but it was the IT was the wildest garment I'd ever 375 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,080 bought, but it was really fun. But you so if I go back, we've 376 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,320 got I mean stories for days. We could tell from some of these 377 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,680 places we went. But if you think about why you 378 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:48,160 initiated these trips, it was these were some of the hot spots 379 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,720 in the world conflict zones, places that are not easy to go 380 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,800 to, places that you get lucky to come home from in some cases. 381 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,320 But you had a hunch that the people there could use some 382 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,480 love, and that likely we might not have context on the whole 383 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,840 story. And you seem to have replicated 384 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,760 that into one of the biggest NGO, one of them. 385 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,080 Let me say this one of the most impactful Ng OS out there. 386 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,000 I think there are bigger Ng OS and I've been around that world, 387 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,160 but I don't know many and I've been to, you know, your your 388 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,800 mother ship in Uganda, but I've also been to a lot of other your 389 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,200 projects help with some of them here and there. 390 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,880 And it is wildly impactful and it's so targeted and it's so 391 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,320 specific. And you guys have found a way to 392 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,280 do it. And I know you've got a great 393 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,880 team running it now and you're not as directly involved, but 394 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,240 you found a way to do it that kind of cuts through the clutter 395 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,240 and trims all the fat and gets real lean on what it's trying to 396 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,040 do. And I just wonder, I've seen you 397 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,240 as a as a business partner of yours, as a friend put the old 398 00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:46,360 trial attorney had on here and there. 399 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,240 And it's so interesting because I didn't know you in that 400 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,240 lifetime. I got to know you after that 401 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,040 lifetime. But a big chunk of your life was 402 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,560 one of the more successful attorneys in Southern 403 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:57,840 California. And I've just heard about some 404 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,720 of those stories. But even then it was like you 405 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,200 had a way to clear the path to lower the noise and to go 406 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,760 straight into somebody's heart and try to support them and help 407 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:07,920 them. And then if it whether it's 408 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,360 solving a case, solving a case or whether it's trying to save a 409 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:15,160 life or whether it's building a friendship, it's a theme that 410 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,520 runs through you that is contagious. 411 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,440 And I think it's why people love to hear your story. 412 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,120 I'm at, I'm wondering, where does that have you ever traced 413 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:24,800 it back to be like, where's the origin of that? 414 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,080 Was it at some point early? Did you feel misunderstood and 415 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,200 you just made it your purpose to make people not feel that? 416 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,320 Or where? Where where would that I. 417 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,760 Just love. I think when he think of origin 418 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,280 story, think of grandparents who are just nuts about me, like 419 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,200 they just thought I was just the bee's knees. 420 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,840 My grandfather was a longshoreman in San Francisco. 421 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,640 He worked on the docks and he was a fireman and he did that 422 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,480 for 40 years and he never put out a fire. 423 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,400 I don't even know if he knew how to, but he was really good at 424 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,960 love me. My grandma, like worked as a 425 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,440 switchboard operator. That was her thing. 426 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,040 And here was the crazy thing, Miles, they told me that they 427 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,160 lived in a castle. It was about two miles away from 428 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,320 our house. And so I got to grow up in this 429 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,080 castle. Now it was just row house in San 430 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,880 Jose, CA and they were living on Social Security, 400 bucks a 431 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,400 month. But they told me they were so 432 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,320 wealthy they didn't even need to make their own meals. 433 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,720 There's this guy named Swanson that would make the meals every 434 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,080 day and deliver them in metal plates for them. 435 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:37,960 And there's something beautiful about like that idea of creating 436 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,640 a a universe of, of wonder, a universe of curiosity. 437 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,840 They painted their house hot pink with white trim, like 438 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,160 property values cratered for a mile in every direction. 439 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,240 But they had in mind that that's what castles look like. 440 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,000 They're hot pink with white trim. 441 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,360 I think we don't need to go repaint our house, but maybe put 442 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,040 a little tune up on some of the ways that we're approaching 443 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,800 people, like with wonder and curiosity and all that. 444 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,320 One thing that you're really good at is asking people. 445 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,680 You just take a genuine interest in other people. 446 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,440 And if we could do that when sometimes we come with an agenda 447 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,320 and sometimes people, even in faith communities, come with an 448 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,120 agenda. And if love has an agenda, then 449 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:27,600 it didn't love anymore. It's a program, and we can see 450 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,440 when a program's coming our way. And I think that's one of your 451 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,760 superpowers is that you just, you have an agenda for you. 452 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,360 I've just never felt like you had an agenda for me. 453 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,560 And that would be one of the things we can do. 454 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,200 And being curious about people, you know, one practice I've 455 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,560 given up on, I've stopped asking people how they are because if I 456 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,280 say, how are you, then you'll say, fine, how are you? 457 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,520 Because that's how we roll in North America. 458 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,560 But instead, what I'll say is, what does it feel like to be you 459 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,680 right now? And while they're thinking about 460 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,200 that, because people usually don't ask that, I'll say, let me 461 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:00,680 tell you what it feels like to be me. 462 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,600 And it's about, I know the math doesn't work, but it would be 463 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:09,640 about 80% insecurity and about 90% curiosity. 464 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,560 My curiosity outpaces my insecurity, but just by a 465 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,160 little. And so when you're talking to 466 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,520 me, even right now, you can come across as a secure person. 467 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,040 Babe, I'm super insecure. I'm super aware of my 468 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,000 insecurities. And so I think that has been the 469 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,520 growing edge for me to be aware that little Bobby Goff is 470 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,400 showing up with all of his insecurities and to say like, 471 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,800 OK, just settle down. We know you're insecure and just 472 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,640 just be present. Like you don't need to be 473 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,160 somebody else. Because people that know me, 474 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,520 they experience me as a pretty upbeat guy. 475 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,480 So if I'm like Balloon Boy, it'd be like Bob's here and like woo. 476 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,560 But you've known me in some some of my darkest times. 477 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,200 I mean, when I've been gutted, I've been just like just 478 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,360 filleted by some relational stuff that's happened. 479 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:08,920 And, and I love that you give people the freedom to just show 480 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,880 up as they are because otherwise, if you show up as 481 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,360 like the happy guy all the time, then you become a caricature of 482 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:19,040 who you really are. And that's actually unknown to 483 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,280 God. Like he didn't make that 1. 484 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,600 He made this one with all of his insecurities and just being on 485 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,040 to yourself about what do I do when I get insecure? 486 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,120 One of my tells I get funny like the, oh, the more insecure I 487 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,160 get, the funnier I get. At least to me, I think I'm 488 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,120 pretty funny. And so I all get wound up on a 489 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:45,120 stage in a former life and just try to be so fun and funny all 490 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,000 that. And that's just little Bobby 491 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,600 Goff, 8 years old, afraid everybody's going to reject 492 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,200 them. And so just being on to 493 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,640 yourself, like know your tells. The, I think it's interesting 494 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,720 you bring humor up as a like what can be a deflection and it 495 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,320 can be a gift. And for you, it's certainly 496 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:02,960 both. You have a gift of gab, you 497 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,400 know, a great communicator, great storyteller, but also 498 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,320 you'll have people on the edge of a Cliff just rolling over 499 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,560 laughing and then right into a a really beautiful heartfelt 500 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,800 moment that we might, you know, share a happy tear. 501 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,920 I've seen you be able to do that over and over again. 502 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,800 And I think people are surprised by that, even at places like on 503 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:25,080 site and in counseling rooms, as you think it's such, it's always 504 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,680 serious and it's always deep. And some of the biggest laughs 505 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,040 I've ever heard have come off of that hill in Cumberland Furnace. 506 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,960 It's almost, I think humor in a way is medicine. 507 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,200 Because if we took ourselves so serious, especially with all of 508 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,640 our ailments, then I don't know that we could survive it. 509 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,160 I think we do have to laugh at ourselves at time. 510 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,880 But I think it's a great distinction, and I'm glad you 511 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,200 brought it in this early. Again, it's just knowing our 512 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,320 tails, it's like, yeah, sometimes our greatest gift can 513 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,000 also be a burden if we're not careful. 514 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:57,400 Yeah, and that it's like a sword without a handle, right? 515 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,680 It's that's the deal. And when you're writing books, 516 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,680 and I really enjoy doing that, I probably send myself 100 emails 517 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,360 a day, just like little shards of ideas. 518 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:09,600 I'm like, I get home. I'm like him again, Block. 519 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,320 But what I'll do is I'll write these shards of ideas and then 520 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,480 the better ideas lead to a little bit more introspection 521 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,840 and go like, I wonder why I did that. 522 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,200 I wonder why I have that reaction I got right now. 523 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,680 If you're following me around in San Diego, in addition to 524 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,960 restraining order, what you would see is me chasing some 525 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,120 golfers that are in my yard. Now, I'm not a particularly a 526 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:39,920 grass guy. Like it doesn't mean like it 527 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,400 doesn't matter to me, but it's just not a high value. 528 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,680 But somehow I've got in my mind like I need to get rid of these 529 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,880 golfers. And I was down by the by the 530 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,240 path. I feel like I'm going to get a 531 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,400 letter from PETA now, but I put one of these little smoke things 532 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,600 down there to like, just get rid of them. 533 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,400 And somebody came walking down the path and it put my foot over 534 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,880 the hole, smoked about. Yeah. 535 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,200 Because I didn't want them to know I was smoking out the 536 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,560 golfers. And then they wanted to shake 537 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,800 hands. And so to shake hands, I had to 538 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,800 lift my foot off. And all the white smokes coming 539 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:20,160 out, I'm like, we've got a Pope. So like, but the things that we 540 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,440 do to navigate around our own insecurities about what you 541 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,640 think other people are going to be thinking about you and all 542 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,920 that. And the reality I've got to 543 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,840 convince myself is they're probably not thinking about me. 544 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,280 I'm thinking about a lot more. I'm thinking about enough for 9 545 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,440 people and they're not thinking about me at all. 546 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,840 They're thinking about the bill they're late to pay and the 547 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,120 thing that they're on their way to go see. 548 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,720 So sometimes getting up in your head and just having just this 549 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:50,120 reminder that it's just like that you're not as important in 550 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,280 their life as you think. They're not in a fatalistic way. 551 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,360 I think about, I think you said an important, important line 552 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,600 earlier that I hope people might be able to be encouraged by 553 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,000 which, you know, we're in a season right now in the world, 554 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:09,440 Some are calling it an epidemic of loneliness where people 555 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,080 statistically feel more alone than maybe they have. 556 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,640 It's ironic because you one could say with the social 557 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,240 constructs that are out there, IE social media, that we're all 558 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,200 more interconnected than we've ever been, but yet we're more 559 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,680 lonely than we've been because we have less interpersonal stuff 560 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,120 and more digital stuff. That's one of the theories, but 561 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:33,720 there's lots of others. You, you, you mentioned that in 562 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,240 your seasons when you were gutted you, we were, we were 563 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,000 talking, you picked up the phone and called me and I, I've 564 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,160 learned from a couple of those. I'll never forget the call I got 565 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,160 in the middle of the night, the literal middle of the night when 566 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,040 you found out the most special place to you at that time. 567 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,640 And, and maybe it'll be one of the more special places you'll 568 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,160 ever remember because it is for me, it's in my top two or three 569 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,600 was on fire and you were losing something really, really 570 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,840 important to you and important to the two or three of us that 571 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,320 you called that night. So I've never been on there. 572 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,800 I'll never forget being on the receiving end of that call. 573 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,520 And I wasn't, even though I'm in the space of taking lots of 574 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,320 calls where people are navigating tragedy. 575 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:11,760 When it's a friend, it's different. 576 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,080 And especially when it's something that meant it's 577 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,880 probably as much to me as it did to you because my life changed 578 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,520 on that mountain. It's talking about your lodge. 579 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,240 And I didn't feel equipped that night to know what to say 580 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:25,400 because it was, what could you say? 581 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,040 I mean, we didn't know anything other than you were losing a 582 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,680 dream that you poured your life into. 583 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,760 And I'm curious for you, I sometimes will prescribe that 584 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,880 move to everybody. Hey, when you're at your hardest 585 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,040 or with your loneliness, when you're up against the wall, pick 586 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,480 up the phone and call somebody. And I find myself having a 587 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,800 difficult time picking up the phone and calling somebody. 588 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,800 And I'm curious for you, is it, has it been hard to make those 589 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,760 calls when you're in a gutted season or yeah, is it natural? 590 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,080 I don't think it's. Driven by pride. 591 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,680 I might be wrong on that. Might be my pride keeping me 592 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,560 from saying is my pride. But tell me if this makes sense. 593 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,640 You don't want to have somebody have a snapshot like a Polaroid 594 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,560 of that moment that they keep referring to because I will have 595 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,280 moved on. And then that is their point of 596 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,000 reference. So with good buddies like you, 597 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,040 like we have so many Polaroids that we can pick from, but 598 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,680 disclosing something thing that's going on in the moment, 599 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,280 you don't want to like, freeze frame that because they're going 600 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,000 to be stuck back there. There's a woman named Paula. 601 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,160 I went to a high school reunion. It must be her 30th or 40th. 602 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,720 And this elderly woman walked up to me and she said, are you OK? 603 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,880 And I'm like, yeah, I think so. I'm like, she's looked really 604 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,880 concerned. And I'm like, oh, Paula, is that 605 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,600 you And I? And I'm like, because I'm the 606 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,800 elderly guy. And, and she said, you know, are 607 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,280 you OK about the whole thing? Because she had wisely told me 608 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,920 before the prom that she didn't want to go with me. 609 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,520 She got a better offer, which would have been from anybody, 610 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,600 and so she went with the better option. 611 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,440 That was just good judgement on her part. 612 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,040 But she was freeze framed back at 17 years old and I'm at level 613 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,560 67 now, so I don't know what the math is, but that's a lot of 614 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,520 years. But that was her last 615 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,600 interaction and I think I don't want us to go back to that one 616 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,360 spot. So then I'm cautious about 617 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,040 disclosing to somebody the deepest heard about this moment 618 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,760 in real time, because I don't want that to be the only 619 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,320 reference point. Does that make sense? 620 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,440 Yeah, it does make. Sense, Yeah, yeah. 621 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,400 So being misunderstood is just an awful thing. 622 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,360 I don't know anybody who is well adjusted that likes to be 623 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,600 misunderstood. There might be exceptions to 624 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,960 that, but like for the most part, I think people, even 625 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,760 people that are a little contentious because they're 626 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,880 trying to gain some notoriety by creating havoc. 627 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,200 But for most part, people don't want to feel misunderstood. 628 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,880 And so as I'm sorting out how I'm feeling about things, that 629 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,840 makes it hard. You just want to come up and up 630 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,280 to that. You're dressing it up. 631 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,160 I just want to have a beginning, a middle and an end. 632 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,720 And when I called you, we were definitely right. 633 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,080 The beginning to middle. Yeah, and we walked through the 634 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,360 beginning, middle and recently end of of that experience. 635 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,160 But you're right, there's a number of Polaroids we could 636 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:23,160 pull. But if you're listening out 637 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,960 there, I want to camp out here for a minute and just ideally 638 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,280 encourage a few people of some things I'm plucking out of our 639 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,320 narrative in our friendship. It's things that I anytime I've 640 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,880 got a good friend and I hope it's a reciprocal element to our 641 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,720 relationship, Then ideally I'm going to grow in the friendship 642 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,480 as a human myself. I'll come home a little bit 643 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,120 better husband, little better father, little better friend to 644 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,800 other people because this friendship has stood the test of 645 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,200 time. And also we've leaned into the 646 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:55,000 hard edges in the dark corners. And, but I think I receive an 647 00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:00,040 incredible amount of phone calls that are hard for people to 648 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,360 make. I've gotten my hours on taking 649 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,520 difficult phone calls. And, and, and many of these 650 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,880 people don't know me that well because they know it's what I do 651 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,840 for a living. But then there's some when your 652 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,920 work hats not on, but it's a friend calling. 653 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,199 And I got to tell you, and I think what you just articulated 654 00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:22,400 is a really important distinction, that if you find 655 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,320 yourself in a place where you don't have a handful of people 656 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:31,280 or even one person will go there that you feel can hold this part 657 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,800 of your story and not make that your identity. 658 00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,080 I think your words were stuck in the beginning. 659 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,199 Then that may be the most important step you could start 660 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:45,159 to take or build is how do I find and ensure that those 661 00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,760 people are in my life? Because for me, you've been one 662 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,719 of those people for me too, when I called you and some of the 663 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,760 hardest moments, the calls, they were hard, but they weren't 664 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,280 because it was you and I knew how I was going to be received. 665 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,280 And I know I can call you again tomorrow. 666 00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,720 That's how we started our day today. 667 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,120 We didn't see each other while we sit down in there and 668 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,920 immediately point into each other and you're saying, hey, 669 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,800 da, da, da. So I want to, I just want to say 670 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,160 to everybody that I think in a world where a lot of us feel a 671 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:18,120 little bit more alone, we're more likely to reach out maybe 672 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,280 on social media with our hurts and with our wounds. 673 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,360 And look, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with 674 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,280 that unless it's your only outlet and you're talking to 675 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,240 strangers who are going to come up with, you know, you're going 676 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,040 to be humans, you're going to build a narrative around where 677 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,840 somebody enters your story. But if there's somebody that you 678 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,360 can make a phone call to that, you know, as you said, has no 679 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,680 agenda other than to walk with you through it, that doesn't 680 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,680 that goes from an obstacle to a rhythm. 681 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,440 And I would say I'm proud to say in my life right now, it's a 682 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,560 rhythm. I've got you and I've got a few 683 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,320 other people that it's not a heavy. 684 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,920 The phone's not heavy anymore. When I'm struggling, I also will 685 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,360 call and celebrate. Hey, guess what? 686 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,320 You know, you were the first one of the first guys there when I 687 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,880 had my first kid and. We were shopping for diamond 688 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,120 rings together. Yes, yeah, when I was ready to 689 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,680 make the big ask and I always actually did it at an event. 690 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,520 Dizzy. Yeah, we did that together too. 691 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,080 Remember you were had everybody coming in with these long stem 692 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,080 roses. And then I remember Vanessa 693 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,720 muttering, if he doesn't propose to me at the end of this, I will 694 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,240 kill him. Put her through that whole 695 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:30,080 production. Roses and her be like that, 696 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,280 brother. And then we had a harpist 697 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,920 playing and I think they were your fingers are bleeding 698 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,080 because it just took so long to make its way through there. 699 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,960 Yeah, that was a beautiful experience. 700 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,400 You're good. So I want I just want people to 701 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:50,560 be in in encouraged and ideally motivated that I'm telling you 702 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,280 these these anchor relationships. 703 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,440 I think you you endearingly reference or communicate 704 00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,320 sometime and you'll text me and you'll say 8. 705 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,640 Tell people what 8. Means, Oh yeah #8 the whole idea 706 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:09,040 is we have, on our last day here on earth, room around our bed 707 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,080 for about 8 people. You know, 9 if they're thin, but 708 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,160 you get about 8 people. And so we just decided that we 709 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,680 would be 1 of each other's 8. And so we just started texting 710 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:26,160 each other back and forth like #8 And so find that and every 711 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,400 person I meet, every conversation I have, I feel like 712 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:30,440 they're trying out for the position. 713 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,920 They're kind of interviewing for the job of being one of my 8:00. 714 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,640 And if we approached conversations and relationships 715 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,880 and there'll be some people that will drop off. 716 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,360 I've like, you know, I've you've walked through some of those 717 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,280 with me when there's been a change in the lineup. 718 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,320 And so when you go through those hard times and for me that's 719 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:57,040 particularly painful because it just involves just a host of 720 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,600 emotions and all that. What I've been doing it that's 721 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,240 been helpful for me is I I did you grow up playing A3 truths 722 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:06,920 and a lie? Do you ever be that of people? 723 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,880 2 truths and a lie, I think. It was a three. 724 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:13,200 I don't know, depends how many truths and lies you got, but I 725 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,520 remember saying like, you know, I've sailed across the Pacific a 726 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,040 couple times. I got shot once. 727 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,400 I used to raise iguanas for their pelts and I've, I've 728 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:27,320 landed a plane on a lake. And so you have to figure out 729 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,800 which is the truth and light. Well, here are four statements. 730 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,000 I got nothing to prove. I got nothing to lose. 731 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,520 I got nothing but time and I got boatloads of patience. 732 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,720 And I just told you 4 lies that I'm trying to make true because 733 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:46,840 I actually am still trying to prove things to my dead mom. 734 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,840 I'm trying to prove that I was worth caring for in a way that I 735 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,080 could perceive that trying to prove to broken relationships 736 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,920 that I was worth being a friend. It was worth continuing on 737 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,040 instead of bailing. So nothing to prove we've got 738 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,560 nothing to lose. I'm like, I'm hanging on to 739 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,040 stuff possessions. I got an old pickup truck you 740 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,320 wouldn't even want, but I'm hanging on to that thing that 741 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,200 just like I got what is it that I've hanging on to right now 742 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,680 that if I say this, the phrase I got nothing to lose. 743 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:24,400 What makes that a lie? Right now? 744 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:29,320 I got nothing but time. I I don't, I got all kinds of 745 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,640 responsibilities. You've been around me long 746 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,200 enough to hear how often the phone goes off because I put my 747 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,680 phone number in the back of three million books and I've 748 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,400 I've got boatloads of patient man. 749 00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:46,200 I don't I make coffee nervous. I'm like, just go, so how can we 750 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,240 to, that's a great audit for me. How can I make those statements 751 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,440 that feel false? How can I make them true in my 752 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,600 life? And pausing for those little 753 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,320 audits to say, what am I trying to prove to you? 754 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,200 I think our friendship. I'm not trying to prove I'm 755 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,400 worth being a friend to you because I feel like you know me. 756 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,440 I think, I think we decided we'd be each other's number 8. 757 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,080 Nothing to lose. I'm not afraid of something. 758 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,640 Even in a business relationship, I'm not afraid. 759 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,880 I feel we give each other each other's proxy. 760 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,400 We use that all the time. We just like, whatever you want 761 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,280 to do, we'll just do that. But that's a good audit. 762 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,440 Do you do anything like that in your life where you just go 763 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,640 through what it's like? That kind of the being on to 764 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,000 yourself? Is there something I'm trying to 765 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,480 prove right now? Well, yes, I really of, of all 766 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,120 that you said, I relate to all of them. 767 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,680 We just had the time conversation. 768 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,080 It was the conversation before this conversation that the team 769 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,000 here always warns me about. They were like, don't go in 770 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,480 there and say all the good stuff before we get on the podcast. 771 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,680 But we had the time conversation. 772 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,800 And I'm really, I remember being in a season with you when you 773 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:54,800 were outpacing all of us with output. 774 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,760 I mean, you were hitting a wild number of dates, you know, all 775 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,880 over the country and you kept these really unusual, I say 776 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:08,240 unusual, unfair judgement, but these really interesting 777 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,440 commitments, like no matter where I am, I'm flying home at 778 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,280 the end of the night because I want to see my wife. 779 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,200 And and so I remember some of those where you were red eyeing 780 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,040 all over the country to make these talks work and to make the 781 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,000 commitment or homework, which I really respected. 782 00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,560 And I was worried about you because I had to know how is 783 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,800 this sustainable? But the good news is is in the 784 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,000 middle of it. You were like, I probably need 785 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,000 to think about how I titrate down and think about this next 786 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,520 chapter. And I could go through several 787 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,160 chapters that we've walked through together and and you, 788 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,440 you will talk about the messy metal in the liminal space 789 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,240 before you have it figured out. But then when you get ready to 790 00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:45,160 pull the trigger, you pull the trigger. 791 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:47,400 And we were sitting in there just talking about that. 792 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,400 You made some big decisions to say no to a, to a lot of things 793 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,320 so that you could be in a season of life that that you feel is 794 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,920 where you want to be right now. And I'm still trying to sort 795 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,280 that out. And you're always good. 796 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,280 As soon as you walk in, you'll pepper me with like, you know 797 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:01,360 what? Why don't we just do this? 798 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,640 But tomorrow I'd. Like get a date on it. 799 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:09,840 And I just, I think the time thing I really relate to, but 800 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,480 the one that really stuck out to me was the relationships. 801 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,920 Because as good as I think I have gotten over the years, 802 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,120 really since I've known you, because prior to knowing you, I 803 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,880 think one of the things we bonded on right up front, like 804 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,040 in the first day we knew each other was we were two guys who 805 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,320 were really, well really known in our fields. 806 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,320 You know, you, you had made some big waves in, in the nonprofit 807 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:34,880 world, really in the faith world, you know, you're 808 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,280 speaking, everybody knew who you were and you had a massive book. 809 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,680 And we're speaking at every mega church around the world and a 810 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,920 lot of other places. Everybody knew Bob Goff was in 811 00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:44,560 that world. A lot of people knew me and my, 812 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,480 my little world mental health psychology. 813 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,840 And both of us were on a ride up a mountain is like, but do we 814 00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,680 really feel known? And I think we both related on 815 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,120 we had a lot of acquaintances and and not a lot of friends. 816 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,120 Yeah, bingo. And now I'm, I'm happy to say 817 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,800 I've been a little bit more intentional about building 818 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:07,280 friends in in. And I think what I might have 819 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,840 been avoiding through that early season by not having many people 820 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,880 that were anchor friends was I was scared to make them because 821 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,000 I was terrified to lose them. Yeah. 822 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,000 Is that crazy? And I think that's among the 823 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,560 things I've learned from you is that idea of the rules that we 824 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,680 make, the agreements we make with each other. 825 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,480 Like you get think back, you're in high school and somebody 826 00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,600 breaks your heart and you say, I'm never going to love again 827 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,600 because you're just afraid people are going to leave you. 828 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,320 So that would be little Bobby Goff, 8 years old. 829 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,480 Some crazy stuff happened and I got in my mind everybody's going 830 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,880 to split. It wasn't true, but it felt 831 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,800 true. And so now carry that forward a 832 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,360 little Bobby Goff who's out 22 and can't get a date. 833 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,760 And it was not only the appearance, all this going on, 834 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,840 but in addition, I was like a guy that was staying in the top 835 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,720 three inches of every relationship because I just 836 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,760 decided I was going to show up like the happy guy, like the guy 837 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:07,560 that was the balloon boy, right? And so I realized that people 838 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,840 don't want to do life with somebody that they'll do an 839 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,680 evening with somebody, but you're not going to do life with 840 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,840 somebody that's just keeping it really in the top couple inches. 841 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,840 And then I decided to do a little bit more spelunking. 842 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:23,200 You know, I just wanted to go down into The Cave and see what 843 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,160 was written on the wall and see, get the headlamp going to say 844 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,440 who wrote it, Is it true? Was it ever true? 845 00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:36,160 Does it need to keep being true? And that, I think has emerged 846 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,600 from our friendship. Just going down, getting down 847 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,200 there and figuring out what are the things that are driving 848 00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:43,640 this. Because what felt like really 849 00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:48,600 helpful scaffolding for my little 8 year old heart ended up 850 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,360 feeling like San Quentin to a 22 year old, right. 851 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,960 And then meeting sweet Maria Goff and it just, we're bringing 852 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,240 down some of that scaffolding and then having meaningful 853 00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:01,560 relationships. Find your 80. 854 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,880 And then if one of your eight changes and the whole sock 855 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,720 drawer gets thrown on the floor, do you make a new rule? 856 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,400 Do you say I'm never doing that again? 857 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,760 But to resist, say like no, if you're going to have some 858 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,280 setbacks along the way, but setbacks aren't campsites. 859 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,200 I'm not going to make that a campsite. 860 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,400 That was like a set back and I'm going to try to understand their 861 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,760 context, understand mine as best I can and figure out I want to 862 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,120 create healthy rules. And my healthy rule is this. 863 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,880 Take what it is that you're known for and take that away. 864 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,880 And whatever's left is who you are, right? 865 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,120 So if you're it was Bob the lawyer, so take away being a 866 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:44,800 lawyer. I walked into my own law firm on 867 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,800 the 18th floor, 17th and 18th floor of the Wells Fargo 868 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,640 building in downtown Seattle. And I stepped out of the 869 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,240 elevator and the receptionist said, who are you here to see? 870 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,480 Actually, that's my name right behind you. 871 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,600 And I realized I hadn't been in my own law firm for the better 872 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,800 part of a year because I've been off and doing other stuff. 873 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,160 And so I got everybody together and I quit just that Cortez like 874 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,240 burn the ships. That has been really helpful for 875 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:18,120 me and just doing that quitting stuff on Thursdays. 876 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,920 Just pull the chalks say I'm just doing that. 877 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,640 And now our conversation before I've quit speaking like I'm not 878 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,120 doing that. I don't know how to do half 879 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,480 measures. I don't know how to how I can do 880 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,800 less like So it's just that feels like it's binary. 881 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:38,520 It's either on or it's off. And for who I'm becoming, I've 882 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,200 had to like turn it off. Not for anybody else. 883 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:44,720 I just am incapable of moderation. 884 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,520 So I don't know. Have you done the same thing 885 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,480 where you've had to just say like, I'm going to switch 886 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:55,360 because I've by switching off to this, making a really healthy 887 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,840 rule. Oh, a great boundary has been by 888 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:04,400 saying I'm not spending nights away, mostly because it's just 889 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,760 really lonely sitting in a Motel 6, you know, somewhere I'd 890 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,360 rather just fly home and then fly back to Orlando the next 891 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,840 day. I know that's my carbon 892 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:18,800 footprint is the size of like, you know, me and Southwest 893 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,680 Airlines are so but to make rules that are healthy rules 894 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,400 that are going to get me where I'm going to go. 895 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,880 Yeah, I think what you're describing is what are the the 896 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,720 guidelines, what's the road map that we want to try to live our 897 00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:35,080 life by? And to answer your question, 898 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,120 it's a thoughtful 1. And I think because we're two 899 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,400 friends sitting here talking and there's no experts in the room, 900 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,480 that's what's making me really contemplate the answer, just 901 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,000 like we would in real time, as I don't want to give you a line, I 902 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,440 want to give you the truth. And I'm not that great at that. 903 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:55,160 I'm not that great. I am not good at also saying I'm 904 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:59,440 going to be selective on where I spend my time, on who I'm going 905 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,920 to try to support because I just love it too much. 906 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,360 And so if I leave the door cracked open, it's going to get 907 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,880 blown open at some point. I'm not good at closing those 908 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,800 doors. That's been a challenge of mine. 909 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:11,760 What you've seen me walk through and I think you've encouraged 910 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,280 me. I have, I've gotten a little 911 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,280 better, better at it in some areas. 912 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,840 But to make big bold ones like that, like even now in my life, 913 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,240 you know, we started this project which has been so fun. 914 00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:24,640 I'm having so much. So glad you. 915 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,320 So much fun with it and, and it's a lot, it's a lot of work. 916 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,920 You know, I have so much respect for people that are podcasting 917 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,800 and, and other forms of media where it's, it's, it can be a 918 00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:36,720 full time job in itself. And then I've got some other 919 00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:38,640 things I like to do and I'm still very much involved in on 920 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,360 site. So I'm other endeavors and I 921 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,520 realize I'm more of an add to than a take away. 922 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:47,680 So some sometimes my response to stress is to add more stress. 923 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,760 Just start pedaling faster. Yeah, well, just because it and 924 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,080 I've I've gotten better at that. But we had a conversation even 925 00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:00,120 before you got here. Ashley and I, who she's my wing 926 00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,520 woman, you know, she she directs all the operations from my 927 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,560 office and we work together every day and have for a few 928 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,400 years. And she's just so special to 929 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,680 everything that I do. We were talking and she's a 930 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,400 truth teller in my life too and cares about me as much as a 931 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,720 human as she does me is what I might have professional output. 932 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:18,440 And she said, I think, I hope I'm Aaron. 933 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:20,400 I hope I'm not Aaron. Too much of your tea over there. 934 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,560 You tell me we can edit it. If if so, but she's about ready 935 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,000 to go on maternity leave. And I'm I've never been more 936 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,400 thrilled for a human because she's going to be like super 937 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,640 mom. She was like born to be a mom. 938 00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,320 And I'm also terrified about that because we're, you know, 939 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,840 she, she's dipping out for a while and I'm like, oh, what's 940 00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,960 that going to be like? Our worlds are so intergrained 941 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,600 professionally and, and, but she's over there before she goes 942 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,320 says, I wonder if this is not a good time for you too, to say, 943 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,400 I'm going to, I'm only going to focus on these two things for 944 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,600 this period of time so that you can really focus on these things 945 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,360 and not try to focus on everything. 946 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,400 And I'm this moment of vulnerability having having 947 00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,040 watching a friend who's doing that in real time. 948 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:05,680 And I've seen you do it over and over again. 949 00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,880 I even saw you do it with love does, which you're you couldn't 950 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,960 be more identified with. I mean, you wrote the book and, 951 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,960 and, and then the, the NGO is so branded by, but I remember early 952 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,920 on when you said, you know what? This won't be sustainable if, if 953 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,480 it's all about me and we've got to figure out a way to step out 954 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,200 of it. And one day you you find the 955 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,200 right person in leadership and boom, you plug her in and you 956 00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:28,520 let her do her thing. Oh my gosh. 957 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,720 And it got so much better. Jody Luke runs this thing now 958 00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:36,600 like a Chicago see Price Waterhouse CPA. 959 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,320 That's who we need to go build really big things. 960 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:44,240 And she and this team and then also the, you know, it's not 961 00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:47,200 about what we're doing in Somali, it's about what Somalis 962 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,720 are doing in Somali and what Ugandans are doing in Uganda. 963 00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:54,360 So we're just there to be helpful and get out of the way. 964 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,680 Most of the time they're just say they just need somebody to 965 00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,680 get out of the way. No, we got your back. 966 00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:02,720 What do you need? How can I help supply that? 967 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,440 But to your point about like having circumstances kind of 968 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,400 shake up the snow globe, like it's actually kind of a good 969 00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,560 thing. I'm learning to welcome that a 970 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,400 little bit. Well, the disruption isn't like 971 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,920 can be destabilizing. It makes you having this 972 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,800 plausible reason why you're doing whatever you're doing. 973 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,240 And I really like the burn the ship thing. 974 00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:30,200 Having a just say I'm just not doing these things. 975 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,920 I don't need to have a big backfill reason. 976 00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:35,920 I don't have to explain it to everybody. 977 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,120 I used to do that. I don't do that anymore. 978 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,480 People fall out of the chair. I'm just not a lawyer anymore, 979 00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:43,400 nor does anybody think I'm a lawyer. 980 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:45,920 And they'll come a time where I stop writing books. 981 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,400 But I'm really, if you know the reason why you're doing it. 982 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,240 I'm not writing books to be popular. 983 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,920 When I was 20 and could like shred A Stratocaster, I wanted 984 00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,880 to be popular, but it's 67. I'm just not trying to have my 985 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,240 knee give out on me. So to say what's going to be 986 00:52:05,240 --> 00:52:08,200 lasting? I feel like we've having these 987 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,000 books because I'm going to be in a jar or that snow globe and I 988 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,040 just want something leaning up against it. 989 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,680 To say this is what I thought about life and faith and all 990 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,440 that, and I'm trying to talk people into or out of whatever 991 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:23,880 their belief system is. I just want to know, this is 992 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:28,360 like what I believed and This is why it made sense to me that 993 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,720 that's why I've always been encouraging you to write these 994 00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:33,760 stories down because you've got a book or two in you. 995 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,200 Like I just see it. You and I'm doing it. 996 00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,280 You've been a constant win behind myself around that and 997 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,440 and I am doing it. That's part of what Ashley was 998 00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,400 talking to me about is getting some focus time and and spending 999 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,400 a little less time in this season on some of the on site 1000 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,960 activity and some of my other clients and spending more time 1001 00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,200 on finishing this book and continuing to build this show. 1002 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,240 And so we're going to try to focus on doing that. 1003 00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:58,040 But you if there's people out there like me and I make up, 1004 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,360 there's got to be quite a few that have a tendency to over 1005 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,960 commit. And I mean, I'm really good at 1006 00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,400 helping other people put the, you know, for lack of a better 1007 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,760 frame, just a boundary down around where they need to put a 1008 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,320 stop in their life to make more time for something else. 1009 00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:18,320 Just happened before we earlier this morning, I had an interview 1010 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,800 with somebody who I'm not sure if if they're going to be a fit 1011 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,880 for what we're talking about. One thing was really clear is 1012 00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:26,000 they needed to make a move for where they are. 1013 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:27,680 They just popped off the page to me. 1014 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,920 And so I got to encourage them in that moment and and help them 1015 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:33,760 think about beyond this possible opportunity. 1016 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,640 What's keeping you from taking a step into a new opportunity? 1017 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,640 And so I'm I'm good at talking about it, not that good at 1018 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,920 executing it. You seem to be the guy that 1019 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,640 builds systems around things and not a one of your whimsical 1020 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,560 systems was quit. Was it quit something every. 1021 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,360 Every Thursday you still doing get the boot to one thing. 1022 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,080 Nobody. Nobody will take my calls on 1023 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,360 Thursdays. Yeah, because I think I'm 1024 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,080 spending a weird amount of time trying to come up with a reason 1025 00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,200 why I was going to not do whatever. 1026 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,720 So I was spending all this time on the press release about why, 1027 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,200 and I just decided every Thursday I'm going to quit one 1028 00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,640 thing. And it's been the best thing 1029 00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,360 ever. I was on the board of a really 1030 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,800 big nonprofit until yesterday. I'm like, I'm out. 1031 00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,080 And they said why? I'm like, it's Thursday. 1032 00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:23,360 I quit stuff on Thursday. And that is just so freeing for 1033 00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,480 no other reason to say, like, quit stuff before you. 1034 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,680 They launch a jet off an aircraft carrier in San Diego. 1035 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,040 The last thing they do is they put their fists together and 1036 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,200 their thumbs out and they, like, pull the chocks. 1037 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,960 So every Thursday I'm like, pull the chocks. 1038 00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,240 Like what's keeping you stuck and quit and so on. 1039 00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:44,760 The speaking stuff. I just decided I was actually, I 1040 00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,320 took 40 people with 400 miles across the desert. 1041 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,800 And I asked these guys. And I think it's a thing I've 1042 00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,680 learned from you is that you can only take people as far as 1043 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,720 you've gone before. I can hear you saying that to me 1044 00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,840 that verbatim. And the whole idea was to say, 1045 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,200 So what are you going to do about that? 1046 00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,280 What is your courageous move? And I told these 40 people, I'm 1047 00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,960 going to stop speaking. And there's something about 1048 00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:12,160 instead of just getting vague about it and to say I want to be 1049 00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,040 happier or I want more freedom to like, I'm going to say no to 1050 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,720 every speaking event. It'll be the nicest no ever, but 1051 00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:22,120 I'm just going to say no. And I'll put somebody that's 1052 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:23,720 going to be 10 times better than me. 1053 00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,080 Like, I'll give them a couple names, people, but that was so 1054 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:32,000 freeing and terrifying. So people listening to this, I'd 1055 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,160 say like, what's your move? And it's not graded on a curve. 1056 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,480 Pain is not graded on a curve. Our moves are not graded on a 1057 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,640 curve. But I just want us to make them 1058 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,200 and then pick a date. I got a tub of cottage cheese. 1059 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,200 It's got an expiration date. I'm actually approaching my 1060 00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:51,480 expiration date. So for the limited period of 1061 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,760 time that we have left, let's go make some moves. 1062 00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:58,160 There's a, in my faith tradition, there's a, there's a 1063 00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:03,400 versus as the entire universe is up on tip toes just waiting to 1064 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,400 see what's going to be revealed in your life Now, like, isn't 1065 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,360 that awesome? Because like to just imagine, 1066 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,320 like all of heaven is looking over the ribs. 1067 00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,440 See, like what move is Miles going to make? 1068 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,640 What's he going to do with that when things start developing? 1069 00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,240 Like what's he going to do? And I know it's going to be 1070 00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,320 painful and scary and all that, but you got your eight. 1071 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,920 I'm one of them. You're like 3 of my 8. 1072 00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,880 There you go. Well, I love it's interesting 1073 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:36,240 because I was reading my son. I'm so I'm so already seeing the 1074 00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:41,440 tail end of the reading stories to go to bed at night and I'm 1075 00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,320 it's already something I'm I'm pre grieving because it's just 1076 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,640 been such a special part of the relationship I've been building 1077 00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:48,040 with him. And who knows, maybe I got more 1078 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:50,880 runway there that I even know. But at 8:00 and 6:00 they still 1079 00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,240 like it. You know, they still like the 1080 00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:54,840 books have changed, but they still like, you know, dad or mom 1081 00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:56,280 reading them a book before we go to bed. 1082 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,360 So I picked one up the other day. 1083 00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,960 I was buying a couple books for a friend, another friend of 1084 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,560 mine, Sarah, who's who's got a new beautiful little baby girl 1085 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:08,840 And I, I saw one from Jalen Hurts, which is one of my son's 1086 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,120 favorite players. Not his favorite team because 1087 00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:12,920 they beat his favorite team in the Super Bowl we went to a 1088 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,640 couple years ago. But I didn't know a lot about 1089 00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,560 Jalen Hurts other than he's exceptional quarterback for the 1090 00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:19,400 Philadelphia Eagles play for the University of Alabama. 1091 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:20,680 But I didn't know who he who the guy was. 1092 00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,560 He's got a kids book and something like better than a 1093 00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:26,160 touchdown. But it was all, it's a really 1094 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:27,880 great little book, super encouraging. 1095 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,680 And he has all these quotes in there about not giving up and 1096 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,040 how he was disappointed by something that happened. 1097 00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,640 And the whole, a lot of it is we, we just don't quit. 1098 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:36,920 We just don't quit. We just don't quit. 1099 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,320 And so I've been pouring that into my son since I've been 1100 00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:42,160 reading that book, especially when he'll have a rough day 1101 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,520 playing flag football or, or basketball. 1102 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,040 And if he doesn't perform, he'll be like, maybe I shouldn't be 1103 00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:50,240 doing this. Maybe I shouldn't be playing 1104 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,520 this position. I've been giving him more of 1105 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,200 the, the other side of the coin, which is perseverance. 1106 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,040 Don't quit. But I like the way you take 1107 00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,840 things and turn them on their head and you find the value in 1108 00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,680 the other option. So you, you've said it and I 1109 00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,280 just want to camp out on just a little bit longer because I 1110 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,160 think I may need to selfishly hear this more than our guest 1111 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,640 today. But the value of stepping away 1112 00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,840 from something, I think the magic word that you introduced 1113 00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:21,480 back to me today was if you don't know the why, you're less 1114 00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,400 likely to do it. And I remember you now that I go 1115 00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,680 back, I'm like, I remember when you first started talking about 1116 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:27,720 it. It's probably 10 years ago. 1117 00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:29,840 Like I'm going to quit speaking at some point when I have 1118 00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,520 grandkids. There's a why and there may be 1119 00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,960 otherwise. And I don't know that I've fully 1120 00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,520 identified some of the whys of why I might want to limit and 1121 00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:43,600 focus my time a little bit more. What's the value of the, the, 1122 00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,440 the, the pausing something, quitting something, moving on to 1123 00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,240 something else? What has been the benefit in 1124 00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:50,640 your life? Yeah, it's one of those must be 1125 00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,720 present to win things. I've got this deal. 1126 00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,600 You know, I love Disneyland. I'm like, I'm there all the 1127 00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,280 time. It's not too far from the house 1128 00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,640 and I've got this deal. I don't know if I've told you 1129 00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:04,800 this, but every day I get 12 tickets to give people cuts to 1130 00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,040 the front of the line. Did you know that? 1131 00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:07,480 No. You know that every day. 1132 00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:10,160 Every day at midnight, 12 more of these things. 1133 00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,680 Now I can't call it in. I got to be there. 1134 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,760 And so I'll drive up to Anaheim just to give away the 12 1135 00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,920 tickets. So I'll walk up to strangers at 1136 00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,840 the end of this 2 1/2 hour line and I'll say, I feel like, I 1137 00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,240 know this sounds so creepy, like come see my etchings. 1138 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,800 But if you'll walk with me, if you'll just trust me, 100 feet 1139 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,520 worth, we can take you from here to the front of the line. 1140 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,560 And it's so interesting watching people do the over and under. 1141 00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,760 They're saying, well, I'm at the end of a 2 1/2 hour light. 1142 00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:43,680 I mean, what do I have to lose? And I mean, whether your 1143 00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,520 background is in faith or love for people or whatever, whatever 1144 00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:51,320 your risk tolerance is, it's so interesting to see people make 1145 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,520 the decision, you know what, I'm going to risk it. 1146 00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,560 And so they come with me and then all of a sudden the light 1147 00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:00,160 turns green and they go in and then I've just faded to black. 1148 01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:01,760 Like they're like, who was that mask, man? 1149 01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:07,080 So it's I love that idea of giving people cuts to the front 1150 01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:11,880 of the line, but also understand that living a life of sacrifice 1151 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,960 means taking cuts. To the back of the line so if 1152 01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,520 faith guides your steps like those are recurring things, you 1153 01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,320 don't have to take your emotions to the back of the line, but to 1154 01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,240 just say instead of trying to be first, even though I could have 1155 01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,480 the shot at some people are like, what if I gave it to 1156 01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,320 somebody else because I'll just blow their hair back they'll be 1157 01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,560 talking about that forever. Just like think of Maverick and 1158 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,600 the stories you're reading to him. 1159 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,880 Like these are Lindsay is in her 30s and she's writing kids 1160 01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,080 books. If if I write an adult book, 1161 01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,360 then she writes a kids book to go with it. 1162 01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:52,080 Wouldn't that be fun to think like this is just like you're 1163 01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:55,320 the warm up band for this next level of relationship you're 1164 01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,200 going to have with Vanessa and the kids and all that. 1165 01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,840 So it's 67. I'm thinking like what might be 1166 01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,920 possible now if I could set it in motion that we could really 1167 01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,080 live into done this at practice. It's been really helpful. 1168 01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,240 I had this idea of hovering over each person in your life. 1169 01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:15,680 That's the thing that you know from almost like a Sunday 1170 01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,680 school, like God creates and then he hovers. 1171 01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,880 So think of like, if I hover over sweet Maria, what does she 1172 01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,080 uniquely need from me that only I could give her? 1173 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,800 Yeah, hover over Lindsay. What does she uniquely need that 1174 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,000 only I could give her? Because if she wants a ride, she 1175 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,400 could get to Cleveland on Uber for 17 bucks. 1176 01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:37,320 But what she needs is time with me. 1177 01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,400 She needs me to show up at swim practice. 1178 01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:45,240 And so this idea of quitting speaking becomes more tangible 1179 01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,920 to me because I can show up at swim practice and she doesn't 1180 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,320 need me to do anything. I hold the towels. 1181 01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,080 I don't even know if the grandkids know I'm there. 1182 01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,520 But there's something beautiful about shared experiences. 1183 01:01:57,960 --> 01:02:02,760 You know, the other day I'm at the swim practice and the person 1184 01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:06,840 that owns the place came running in and said code Rainbow. 1185 01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:11,160 I'm like, what's going on? Oh, and I knew it. 1186 01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:12,640 Yeah. It was not a rainbow that 1187 01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,000 happened in the pool. Some kid took a dump and and 1188 01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,080 there's moms pulling their kids out of the thing. 1189 01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,800 And so now when something awful happens, like around our house, 1190 01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,720 there's like code rainbow. Somebody just crapped in the 1191 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:28,520 pool. So, yeah. 1192 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:34,480 So it's just that idea whether whatever it is, being present 1193 01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:37,880 for that being wildly inefficient in the way that you 1194 01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,840 love people must be present to win. 1195 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:42,560 And it's going to cost you something. 1196 01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,040 But in the end, you're going to get everything. 1197 01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:49,760 Like when I'm in the jar or the snow globe, we're going to be 1198 01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,720 talking about code Rainbow. I won't be talking about it, but 1199 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,960 they'll be talking about code rainbow and those shared 1200 01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,440 experiences. You know, again, back to Sunday 1201 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,800 school days, it was like said that these people early on, they 1202 01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,480 broke bread and they had things in common. 1203 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,480 I really like a pound carbs and have things in common. 1204 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,880 You and I have had common experiences for decades now, and 1205 01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:16,200 as a result of that, we're each other's number 8, and I really 1206 01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:17,280 love that. Me too. 1207 01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:20,920 I just had another aha. As you were sharing some of that 1208 01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,920 as you're not because you talked about if she needed a ride, 1209 01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:25,840 she'd get an Uber. She needed time with you. 1210 01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:29,200 So it's, you're not necessarily quitting something, you're 1211 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:32,360 making space for something that matters more right now. 1212 01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:34,200 Yeah. And, and I, it's something I 1213 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:37,600 needed to hear in that moment because I love all the 1214 01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,520 activities that I get to be a part of. 1215 01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,520 And if, and I probably was giving myself a little bit too 1216 01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:46,640 hard of a time because when you say, how are you doing in that 1217 01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,560 lane? If there's one area I feel proud 1218 01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:51,240 of, it's, it's the time. I'm, I'm being present for my 1219 01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:54,080 family right now. And I'm just, I'm, I'm doing 1220 01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:56,320 things I never used to do with in terms of the time I'm coming 1221 01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,400 home. I'm not doing it perfectly, but 1222 01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,560 I'm making time to coach. I'm making time for the things 1223 01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,520 that matter. So I guess I'd grade myself a 1224 01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,000 little higher. I think on the vocational side 1225 01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,200 is where I spread myself a little thin and lose a little 1226 01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,120 focus. But I don't know that I've fully 1227 01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:12,200 driven into the why I'd make some of those decisions. 1228 01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,320 And I don't know that I've really ever thought about it 1229 01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,960 through the lens of this is making space for what. 1230 01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:19,240 And I think if I can connect the why and the what, maybe if 1231 01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,360 you're listening out there and you can relate to my struggle in 1232 01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:24,960 this lane and maybe be encouraged by Bob's progress in 1233 01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,960 this lane, maybe you connect the why and the what and and then 1234 01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:30,160 the Hal will take care of itself. 1235 01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:34,120 Yeah, if you've ever done that values exercise or you just lay 1236 01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:37,440 up here with my ten highest values and then lighten it up. 1237 01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:41,520 No shame, no guilt, but just say let's compare that to like guys 1238 01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,680 like you and I. Everything's tied for first. 1239 01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,080 Like particularly when it comes to running a business and all 1240 01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:48,120 that. It's all first. 1241 01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:52,400 It'd be like, I want to do it all and at some point the wheels 1242 01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:56,480 wobble a little bit on that. And so great clarifying exercise 1243 01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:59,600 is to do that and then to remind yourself, don't beat yourself 1244 01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,040 up. I just keep on repeating myself. 1245 01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:06,640 I'm not a pinata because when you hit yourself, it's not candy 1246 01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:09,040 that comes out you. It's like code rainbow, right? 1247 01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:15,720 So so you're not a pinata. So instead of beating yourself 1248 01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:17,840 up about those things, try to understand it. 1249 01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,720 See it so you can understand it so you can do something about 1250 01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:23,560 it. I also keep going. 1251 01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:27,440 No, that's it. I bet it everything will fall 1252 01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:28,800 back to something I learned from you. 1253 01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:33,040 But like, once we see it, what do you say? 1254 01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,360 You say with your ability of your brain to see it, Help me 1255 01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,880 with that. You said that so many times and 1256 01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:40,200 so well. Yeah, we can't. 1257 01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:41,880 Let me think. If I can say, think of the frame 1258 01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:45,760 I used to say it a lot when I was talking is we don't change 1259 01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,280 what we first can't see and we can't. 1260 01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:52,000 That wasn't even it. The ability to the ability that 1261 01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,760 the brain can see itself, it can change itself. 1262 01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:57,880 Yeah, that was not it either. Yeah, no, it's a heal. 1263 01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:01,160 Itself heal itself. So if your brain can see itself, 1264 01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:02,080 it can heal. Itself, Yeah, yeah. 1265 01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:06,160 So I just think in a layman's kind of lawyer version, I'm just 1266 01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:10,400 saying I got to see it so it can understand it, so I can do 1267 01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,760 something about it. And again, if faith is your 1268 01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:16,360 journey, then you can say you can take it to who you believe 1269 01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:18,600 is most trustworthy to deal with that. 1270 01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:22,400 So but it starts with seeing it and not like being vague about 1271 01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,480 it, but then so I can understand, I wonder what The 1272 01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:29,160 thing is underneath what's just out of sight that's really 1273 01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:33,400 making this thing go, oh, that's little insecure Bobby Goff 1274 01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,000 afraid he's going to get rejected again. 1275 01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:41,160 And then when rejection happens to the, it happened again. 1276 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:45,120 And instead of saying I'm going to make a rule, I'm never going 1277 01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:48,400 deep with a friendship again to say like, no, no, no, that's 1278 01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:52,720 little Bobby Goff speaking. And I want 67 year old Bobby 1279 01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,880 Goff to show up. I want that guy to show up. 1280 01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:59,120 I want to make all my decisions by getting like 8 year old Bobby 1281 01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:04,680 Goff as part of it, Bob who is 67 and then a guy that's plus 1282 01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,560 10. So if you're like listening and 1283 01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,840 you just get your 8 year old version of you, who you are 1284 01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:14,040 right now, and then you plus 10 and then have all three of those 1285 01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,880 people vote and let the other two outvote you. 1286 01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:21,240 And I think there's something you can bring the wisdom, you 1287 01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,160 can get real about the herd where the origin story. 1288 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:26,880 But then you're also thinking about who you turn it into. 1289 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,120 And to say, you know, at the end of the day, if I make a lot less 1290 01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:34,160 money 'cause I don't do the only thing I do, just less taxes to 1291 01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,240 pay. If you ever played that game, 1292 01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,440 unfortunately, fortunately, yeah. 1293 01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,720 So you can say unfortunately I'm out of work, but fortunately I 1294 01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:45,680 don't have to pay as much taxes. So it's actually says so reframe 1295 01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:47,440 constantly. So we do that around the house, 1296 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:49,720 us all the time. We just got unfortunately, 1297 01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,200 fortunately. Well, and, and then once you do 1298 01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:56,320 get time back and opportunity, I think you have taught me a lot 1299 01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,840 on the power of taking a swing unapologetically. 1300 01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:01,920 And we've taken some wild swings over the years. 1301 01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:03,800 I was just, even as you were thinking about even Disneyland, 1302 01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,080 I remember one of the first gigs that you invited me to come 1303 01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,040 speak out, which is really you're putting a lot of trust in 1304 01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,440 me to, to bring me into your world. 1305 01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:13,520 And you were running events at the time and you'd have other 1306 01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:15,520 speaker friends come around some of your events. 1307 01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:20,880 And we were at Disney and what? And, and you had people who had 1308 01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:24,160 different levels of expertise would go out into the park and 1309 01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:27,200 there were like 600 participants that would follow us to whatever 1310 01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,520 talk they wanted to hear. And I just assumed you'd been 1311 01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:34,960 working with Disney on all day. I'm the only guy that's got 1312 01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:40,080 thrown out of Thompson Island. You sent me to Thunder Alley and 1313 01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:41,760 I was talking about the storms in your life. 1314 01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:44,479 It was perfect. And, and I just, I, I didn't get 1315 01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:48,520 any Intel other than I was to meet my group for my talk at 1316 01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:50,560 Thunder Alley. But I got over there and it was 1317 01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,479 just where do we go? I was just on a park bench. 1318 01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,840 I stood up on a park bench and had 100 people following me over 1319 01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,479 there and shared a message before they asked me to leave. 1320 01:08:59,319 --> 01:09:02,319 But I realized you, you saw something that could bring 1321 01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:05,600 meaning and value into people's lives and you didn't take time 1322 01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:08,040 to go plan it and get all the permission slips that you might 1323 01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:09,600 need to do it. You just took a swing and we 1324 01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,760 went for it. And even the parts where the 1325 01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:15,240 park got caught off guard with the activity and they were like, 1326 01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:17,399 is that a Disney activity or are those a bunch of strange? 1327 01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:21,240 They, that was a meaningful part of people's experience because 1328 01:09:21,279 --> 01:09:24,080 all of us felt like this. We were taking this risk. 1329 01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,160 We were doing something just so for those out there that might 1330 01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,200 be on the other side of the coin, where I'm in my life right 1331 01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:32,359 now is there's all these beautiful opportunities and I'm 1332 01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:34,359 spreading myself a little thin sometimes. 1333 01:09:34,359 --> 01:09:36,840 Say yes to too many of them to get really good at any one of 1334 01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:39,160 them. There's other people I think who 1335 01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:43,920 are standing at the back of the hot dove and they've got a wide 1336 01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,080 open lane and, and they're terrified to take a swing or 1337 01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:50,000 take a risk. And from somebody who's the, I 1338 01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,880 think if you've mastered any craft, it's taking a risk and 1339 01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,760 going to do things, what would you say to encourage them? 1340 01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:59,320 Well, first of all, if you're the console for any country, you 1341 01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:01,480 have diplomatic immunity. So there's that. 1342 01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:07,520 But I like I've gotten pull over for speeding like 9 times. 1343 01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,240 They can't touch me. I shouldn't even have car 1344 01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:13,520 insurance. But but here's the idea, fail 1345 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,640 trying, don't fail watching because a lot of times what 1346 01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,880 we're doing is we're like thinking about all the results 1347 01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,360 and how embarrassing that'll be and all that. 1348 01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:26,360 But like just fail trying so that you get at the end and it's 1349 01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:29,960 not doing it so that you can talk about that you did it is 1350 01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,560 that you showed up, you gave it everything you could. 1351 01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,840 And then when you hit in an impediment, call it that it's 1352 01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:39,560 just a perceived impediment. You know, this project we've got 1353 01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,720 going on that Jody's leading us in love does. 1354 01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:47,200 We're building a university in a place that's been known for 1355 01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,400 being the origin of the Civil War. 1356 01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:52,880 But there's a university. Well, I decided I wanted to have 1357 01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:56,280 a zoo, but then I found out somebody said it's a habitat. 1358 01:10:56,280 --> 01:11:00,880 I'm like, whatever, it's a zoo. So I wanted animals that 1359 01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,320 wouldn't bite people and it would be hard to lose. 1360 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:08,760 And I'm like giraffes. So I don't know anybody with 1361 01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,080 giraffes. And it turns out the president 1362 01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,640 of Uganda owns all the giraffes in Uganda. 1363 01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:15,680 Is that a great job, Burke? Yeah. 1364 01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:20,120 So, so I don't know him very well, but I do know his wife 1365 01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,320 pretty well. So we sat down with her and I 1366 01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:25,880 talked all about this university and I talked about we want to 1367 01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,160 take these kids from diapers to doctorate. 1368 01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,200 And I talked about we need giraffes. 1369 01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:33,440 I just need 6 giraffes. And she ran over and grabbed her 1370 01:11:33,440 --> 01:11:35,760 husband, the president, and pulled them over. 1371 01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,760 And we sat with him for one hour talking about giraffes. 1372 01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:42,000 We didn't talk about higher education. 1373 01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,880 We just talked about giraffes. And we walked out of their place 1374 01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,360 with six giraffes. What I want us to do is not, 1375 01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,120 like, rule something out in advance, even though it seems 1376 01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:54,840 totally absurd to say. What I'm going to do is I'm 1377 01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:57,600 going to pick the lock. And they even in a relationship, 1378 01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:00,120 you remember those old, like, safe cracking movies. 1379 01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:02,720 They spin the dial and they listen for the tumblers. 1380 01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:05,680 And that's what I'm among the things I've learned from you is 1381 01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:08,960 you just in a relationship with a particular problem, you spin 1382 01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:12,200 the dial, you listen to the tumblers, which is hard for some 1383 01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:15,720 of us if we're always talking. So be quiet, listen for the 1384 01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:19,920 tumblers, spin it the other way. And the crazy thing is when it 1385 01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,520 comes to relationships, the people we're married to, the 1386 01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:27,040 people we made, the people we foster, then the combination is 1387 01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,080 constantly changing. And you've taught me about just 1388 01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,520 slowing it down. Listen for the tumblers. 1389 01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:35,200 But you can't get there if you're just always in a hurry. 1390 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:37,360 You've come up with a couple strategies. 1391 01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:40,000 You've seen my 71 Volkswagen bus. 1392 01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:42,680 I bought that thing for 1500 bucks. 1393 01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:47,640 It's probably worth 1400. And that thing going downhill 1394 01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,760 with a stiff wind behind it will do 40 miles an hour. 1395 01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:55,160 And so for a guy who's always in a hurry, just be on to yourself. 1396 01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,680 Just say get a car that doesn't have hurry in it. 1397 01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,040 There's something, something beautiful about these kind of 1398 01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,040 like strategies. Have a little fun. 1399 01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:04,960 Don't hit yourself. Just say I'm going to get a big 1400 01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:07,880 slow car. I'm going to get something. 1401 01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:12,760 We'd be going faster if I was pushing that thing and just be 1402 01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:15,200 on yourself. But do it with like joy and 1403 01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,400 creativity and a little bit of whimsy rather than beating 1404 01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,680 yourself up about it. Because I don't, I don't know. 1405 01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:22,360 I don't think you'd thrive that way, would you? 1406 01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,000 If you're just always boxing your ears or. 1407 01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:27,920 Then I've been there before, but I think I agree with you in that 1408 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:31,840 I, I think that's why I have a love of horses and why I spend 1409 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,240 so much time on horses, because it's a truly analog activity 1410 01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:36,960 that requires your full presence and attention. 1411 01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:38,840 Bingo. And I think the more analog 1412 01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,520 activities we can put into a really fast-paced digital world, 1413 01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,720 the more likely we are to remember who we are, because 1414 01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,520 that's when things get quiet enough for us to actually hear 1415 01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:49,800 it. Yeah, the the guy that paroled 1416 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,520 into San Diego, we're trying to figure out how to get him to 1417 01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:56,520 Disneyland with me next week. But the problem, he only has a 1418 01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,080 six hour pass. Now, I could drive up there 1419 01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:01,680 pretty fast, but we wouldn't get the day in. 1420 01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:05,600 So just before I got here, I called this parole officer. 1421 01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:08,120 I say, hey, listen, I want to take him to Disneyland. 1422 01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:11,640 Now. He stopped cutting his hair 27 1423 01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:13,400 years, nine months and seven days ago. 1424 01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:15,000 So I think you've met him before. 1425 01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:16,000 Yeah. Now I know exactly your. 1426 01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,080 Daughter, yeah, he's like Reggae Rapunzel. 1427 01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:22,640 He's got these dreadlocks just go all the way to the floor. 1428 01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:26,200 So I just cannot wait to pull that off. 1429 01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,480 And I think the parole officer is going to let let him go. 1430 01:14:29,480 --> 01:14:32,560 But instead of ruling that out and say, well, there's a rule 1431 01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:36,080 and it's just six hours, you go like, well, let's go talk about 1432 01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:37,840 that. And not to challenge the guy, 1433 01:14:37,840 --> 01:14:40,120 but to just say, hey, listen, it's going to take a minute to 1434 01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:42,160 get there and back. I bet he's going to be a nice 1435 01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:43,960 guy, but we'll be at Disneyland together. 1436 01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,200 And I promise you this, we'll be going to the front of the line a 1437 01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:51,120 little bit, but we're also going to give other people want this 1438 01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:54,600 guy to give somebody else a ticket to the front of the line. 1439 01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:57,520 Like that is where it gets really good. 1440 01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:01,600 So like that idea of creating those moments where he could do 1441 01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:04,880 that, but and that's what he did that got him into trouble is 1442 01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:05,800 getting to the front of the line. 1443 01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,520 Let's go to the back of the line. 1444 01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:10,480 Let somebody you don't even know nobody, they don't even know 1445 01:15:10,480 --> 01:15:12,520 your name. They just some guy with some 1446 01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,880 pretty long dreads walked up and gave me cuts to the front of the 1447 01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:18,920 line like, oh, that's the moment I want to create. 1448 01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:23,560 I've got a collection of a few guys to from San Quentin and 1449 01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,640 some of the other institutions around the country that I've 1450 01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:30,040 collected that have been friends and, and that I've hopefully 1451 01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:32,040 added some value to and help mentor a little bit as they're 1452 01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,080 transitioning out of that life into back into life. 1453 01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:41,320 And one of the most important things you can do when somebody 1454 01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:45,920 has been institutionalized in a way, it doesn't matter if it was 1455 01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:51,280 literally like you do when you're serving time, it can be 1456 01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:52,760 metaphorically, you can be in your own jail. 1457 01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:56,480 But if you have been kind of stuck in some part of your life 1458 01:15:56,480 --> 01:15:59,440 and then you suddenly get moved back into life, you felt 1459 01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:02,880 misunderstood for so long that it's very difficult to find your 1460 01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:05,120 value. And I think if you can usher 1461 01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:07,800 people's value back into their lives or help them usher 1462 01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:09,720 people's value back into the life, so you open up an 1463 01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:12,720 opportunity for them to get clear about who, not just who 1464 01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,240 they are, but as you famously say, who they can become. 1465 01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:18,480 And I've, I've done that with some guys coming out of SQ that 1466 01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:20,960 have had two days and two days out. 1467 01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,800 And, and I'm like, I need you to get on the phone with somebody 1468 01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:26,080 who's still in. What do I have to offer? 1469 01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:27,640 I have no idea what this life's going to look like. 1470 01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:29,240 Well, they're going to get pearled next week. 1471 01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:30,840 And I think they're going to learn more from you on your 1472 01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:32,240 second day than they might for me. 1473 01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,520 Who's been, you know, he's been living this life that way. 1474 01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:38,000 And immediately it's not that they have a life hack or they 1475 01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,320 have a road map or they're like, here's the way you do this. 1476 01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:43,640 It's like, I know what it's like to be misunderstood. 1477 01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:45,240 And I wonder if I have value again. 1478 01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:47,680 And then you give them a ticket to be able to hand somebody to 1479 01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:49,880 get to the front of the. Line Wouldn't that be like, just 1480 01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:54,040 like with that idea of whimsy and wonder and purpose, It's 1481 01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:57,560 like a plan, spontaneity to say that'll be a really neat moment 1482 01:16:57,560 --> 01:16:59,920 for everybody. Somebody gets to go to the 1483 01:16:59,920 --> 01:17:01,840 front. We're going to have a story to 1484 01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:03,800 tell. I just, I really want us to 1485 01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:07,360 remember being a lawyer and I spent a lot of time figuring out 1486 01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:09,840 how to move this. We weren't playing checkers, 1487 01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:12,560 we're playing chess. And if we could do that in our 1488 01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,760 relationships, not in a manipulative way, but the 1489 01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:19,480 opposite of that in a selfless way to say, how can we create a 1490 01:17:19,480 --> 01:17:23,080 moment for somebody where you'd ask those questions like, you 1491 01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:26,360 know, what do you want? Jesus asked it to every blind 1492 01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:28,640 guy I ever met. Like, why not ask that? 1493 01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:31,920 You know, one of the guys who was at with us at San Quentin, 1494 01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:38,040 I'm actually a Manson family member and I went to San Quentin 1495 01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:42,480 at Christmas time and I wore a Santa suit because I'm thinking 1496 01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:45,120 like, why not, right? It turns out at the front gate 1497 01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,600 they're not big on people with baggy clothing because you bring 1498 01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:50,640 like hacksaws and all that stuff in. 1499 01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:53,920 So but I did this Jedi move. I'm like, you want to let me in? 1500 01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:56,640 So they let me in. Now I'm at the yard in San 1501 01:17:56,640 --> 01:18:00,040 Quentin, and this guy comes in and sits on my lap. 1502 01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:03,440 And he says, I've never sat on Santa's lap before. 1503 01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,560 And I said, well, I've never had a serial killer sitting in my 1504 01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:09,480 lap before. So this is a first for both of 1505 01:18:09,480 --> 01:18:11,720 us. And I told him, like, what do 1506 01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:13,680 you want? Yeah, that's what Santa asks. 1507 01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:15,520 Everybody talks to what do you want? 1508 01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:18,800 And you know what? I thought he'd tell me he wanted 1509 01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:21,000 an alibi. But what he said instead, he 1510 01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:23,080 said, I want to call on Christmas morning. 1511 01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:26,240 And there's a good guy that we know there that engineered that. 1512 01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,840 And a Christmas morning, we ended up on a little video call 1513 01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:31,640 together. And after we talked for a while, 1514 01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,280 I said, hang on for a second. And he steps out of the screen 1515 01:18:34,280 --> 01:18:37,120 and another guy sits down and we have a great visit. 1516 01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:40,240 And he said, hang on a second. And he steps out of another guy. 1517 01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:44,440 There's like 15 guys in a row. All they want to do is just have 1518 01:18:44,440 --> 01:18:48,520 a conversation, and I just think that is so attainable for us. 1519 01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,240 We just need to slow it down. You don't need to put your phone 1520 01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:53,840 number in the back of a bunch of books, but it doesn't mean you 1521 01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:55,560 don't. I know that's a double negative, 1522 01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:58,960 but just find however the settings you came from the 1523 01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:01,640 factory with and I want to be available. 1524 01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:04,400 I'll never be the smartest guy in the room, but I can be 1525 01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:08,640 available and maybe for people listening today, what what's one 1526 01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:12,360 way I could show up and not just show up, but to say, what do you 1527 01:19:12,360 --> 01:19:14,040 want? Like, what are you looking for 1528 01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,560 in life? And they pick up area, faith, 1529 01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:19,840 family, fun, finances. Start everything with an F 1530 01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:23,800 philanthropy. If you can't spell like Ferrari, 1531 01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:27,040 if you want one like, but to just do a little bit of an audit 1532 01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:29,600 and just say in each of these categories, have those 1533 01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:33,080 conversations, the people you'll have those conversations with, 1534 01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:37,040 they're your 8. You, you're, you're talking 1535 01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:41,120 about a concept of, of living into grace and, and, and you 1536 01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:44,040 have a great metaphor that I've borrowed before, but I'd rather 1537 01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:45,600 you tell this story if you're OK with it. 1538 01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:47,520 But it's talking about catching people on the balance. 1539 01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:52,440 Oh yes, I remember Adam Goff, who's just a Wildman. 1540 01:19:52,440 --> 01:19:58,200 Like I didn't think he'd see 30. Adam decided he was going to 1541 01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:02,360 take up skydiving lessons, which seemed like a really bad idea. 1542 01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:06,040 So I'm like, when do we start? So while he finished up his 1543 01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:09,320 skydiving course, I would drive him out there and he would go up 1544 01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:12,280 in the plane to 15,000 feet and throw himself out. 1545 01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:14,840 And then it was just like, so fun. 1546 01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,760 I'd be at the bottom, he'd land and we'd get his parachute 1547 01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:20,520 together. But what he didn't realize is I 1548 01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:22,360 started taking skydiving lessons. 1549 01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:26,360 And so one time I drove him out to the skydiving place. 1550 01:20:26,480 --> 01:20:29,640 He gets out, he throws his parachute on and I grab one. 1551 01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:31,600 I throw it on and I get in the plane with him. 1552 01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:36,200 He's like, what are you doing? I'm like, how hard could it be? 1553 01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:40,400 And so we get in the airplane, we're spinning up and he's still 1554 01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:41,840 wondering like, what in the world? 1555 01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:46,680 And so we get up to 15,000 feet and Adam gets in the door and 1556 01:20:46,680 --> 01:20:49,160 he, he jumped, jumps out of the plane. 1557 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:52,520 And I've got my tennis shoes on that and I guess they were laced 1558 01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:56,920 up and I jump out so hard. I jump out of my shoes. 1559 01:20:57,160 --> 01:21:00,560 You got to jump pretty hard. I jump out of your shoes. 1560 01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:04,520 But in that moment I was just so excited. 1561 01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:08,280 And they told us during training, they say if your 1562 01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:12,680 parachute doesn't go off, you've got an emergency chute and you 1563 01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:15,080 can pull that. And if that doesn't go off, you 1564 01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:17,400 got about 5 seconds before you crater. 1565 01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:21,080 Wow. And they said that when you hit 1566 01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:24,640 the ground, that won't kill you. But what happens is you hit the 1567 01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:27,800 ground, you break every bone of your body, you bounce up, and 1568 01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:29,520 the second time you hit, that kills you. 1569 01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:34,000 And so I like the idea of just like catching people on the 1570 01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,880 bounce because it isn't usually the fail that kills them. 1571 01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:41,600 It's that they bounced and nobody was there to catch him 1572 01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:46,120 after they cratered, after the relationship died, after the big 1573 01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:49,720 mess up, after the whatever. And that idea of catching people 1574 01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:53,040 on the bounce. And so whether somebody from San 1575 01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:56,480 Quentin or somebody next door and forget this idea of going 1576 01:21:56,480 --> 01:22:00,480 across an ocean, go across the street, find somebody in your 1577 01:22:00,480 --> 01:22:03,440 circle of friends to say, how can I catch you on the bounce? 1578 01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,240 Beautiful speaking across the the ocean. 1579 01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:08,640 I got to say I got to at least speak into this because I 1580 01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:11,120 watched you navigate this terrain as good as anybody I've 1581 01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,320 ever seen which you've you've referenced your faith a handful 1582 01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:17,200 of times and you and I are aligned and share some similar 1583 01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:19,400 thoughts on our faith and belief systems. 1584 01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:23,640 But we have all kinds of kinds that are listening to, to this. 1585 01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:29,600 And I have seen you take your faith and mobilize it in a way 1586 01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:33,280 that it feels like you're, you're so proud of it in the way 1587 01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,920 that you carry it, but you do it in such a non threatening way 1588 01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:38,920 for other people that may not have that same belief system or 1589 01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:41,640 origin. I've watched us go into Islamic 1590 01:22:41,640 --> 01:22:48,080 countries and, and, and as Christian guys are and, and, and 1591 01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:50,840 I've seen you do it. I've seen it done so many other 1592 01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:53,320 ways where it's trying to push an agenda into somebody's face. 1593 01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:54,800 And here's what you should believe because it's the way I 1594 01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:55,880 believe. It's the only way to believe, 1595 01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:59,240 but I've seen you take it across all kinds of different world 1596 01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:02,320 religions and even people who have no center around faith at 1597 01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:04,880 all. And and yet you build a 1598 01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:08,440 relationship. And ideally, the way that what I 1599 01:23:08,440 --> 01:23:13,120 read about Jesus, who's a guy we look up to, the way he did it 1600 01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:17,520 was I'm not here to preach at you or down to you around a 1601 01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:19,840 certain set of values that I think you need to live by. 1602 01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:21,240 But I am here to get to know you. 1603 01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,040 I can show you a little bit more about the things that are tuning 1604 01:23:24,040 --> 01:23:27,600 up in my life. I'd be curious because I thought 1605 01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:30,360 about when you said do it in your backyard. 1606 01:23:30,480 --> 01:23:33,560 You catch people on the bounce that are hard to catch. 1607 01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:36,080 Seeing you do that over and over and over again. 1608 01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:38,360 There's not many signing up for that job to go spend Christmas 1609 01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:41,280 morning at San Quentin in a prison with people I arguably 1610 01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:44,880 who a large part of the world may feel they don't deserve to 1611 01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,680 be celebrated or seen and you go see them anyway. 1612 01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:50,320 I've seen you do that with witch doctors in Uganda. 1613 01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:52,440 We have been at a witch doctor graduation for you. 1614 01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:57,960 You guys have more toes than. Teeth but I mean witch doctor 1615 01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:00,480 and and look, when you get into that world, you realize there's 1616 01:24:00,480 --> 01:24:02,400 a lot of evil. I mean, there was some scary 1617 01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:05,800 things that these these men in this case had done in their life 1618 01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:09,960 and you gave them a moment of value by and I'll never forget 1619 01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:11,920 we played pomp and circumstance on kazoos. 1620 01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:15,400 You remember that middle of the Bush? 1621 01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:20,080 Yes, with the blue robes and the hat and all that. 1622 01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:24,160 Yeah, it was graduation day. And these guys are like, are 1623 01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:28,240 just have been so far removed. Like they're so feared and 1624 01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:32,400 they're perceived as having so much power and to just teach 1625 01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:35,720 them how to read and write. I think there's just something 1626 01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:39,280 really beautiful and redeeming. I just like creating safe 1627 01:24:39,280 --> 01:24:41,440 spaces. I just want to be Switzerland. 1628 01:24:41,440 --> 01:24:44,440 Don't you give me a bar of chocolate and a bobsled. 1629 01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:48,440 I just want to be and it's not going soft. 1630 01:24:48,440 --> 01:24:51,200 It's I heard somebody where faith was important to them. 1631 01:24:51,480 --> 01:24:53,840 They said make a defense for the hope that's within you. 1632 01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:55,840 But I met a lot of people in their faith. 1633 01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:59,600 It's like they want to be Jesus's lawyer and he doesn't 1634 01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:00,120 need one. And. 1635 01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:02,360 Defend the traditions and. Yeah, you're not good now. 1636 01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:03,760 Let him know about the rules and. 1637 01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:08,360 Yeah, I just like I just saw him not there that a verse They they 1638 01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:12,280 stop there, but it continues on. It says but do it with kindness 1639 01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:14,400 and respect. And that's one of the things 1640 01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:16,880 that I appreciate with people like you that have been most 1641 01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:20,280 impactful in my life. They treat me with kindness and 1642 01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:22,280 respect. And that didn't go and light on 1643 01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:25,440 your faith that's going big on the things you believe in. 1644 01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:28,360 It's like, it's like a declaration of faith. 1645 01:25:28,440 --> 01:25:32,400 Every selfless act of love will declare what you actually 1646 01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:34,000 believe. I don't care what you say. 1647 01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:36,760 Just like, just show me what you do on a Tuesday. 1648 01:25:37,120 --> 01:25:40,320 Yeah. One of one of the most beautiful 1649 01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:42,400 acts of faith I think I've ever heard. 1650 01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:46,240 And I wasn't there on this trip, but when you recounted it to me, 1651 01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:50,360 I remember being just weeped. I was in tears to hear what you 1652 01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:52,440 brought into this. Hey, that you even went there. 1653 01:25:52,440 --> 01:25:56,080 But it's I think it's a story in that you it's been a while since 1654 01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:57,800 I've read your your big, big book. 1655 01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:00,160 You got lots of big books, but Love Does was one that just went 1656 01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:04,040 everywhere and it was about it was Kavi, right? 1657 01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:07,760 Kavi, yeah. Kavi and and and. 1658 01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:11,080 There's a beautiful long story about him that you might be able 1659 01:26:11,080 --> 01:26:15,600 to abbreviate, but getting to the part where you went back to 1660 01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,560 see him, that may be the final time. 1661 01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:19,080 Or have you seen him again since then? 1662 01:26:19,080 --> 01:26:22,480 No, no, that was the final time. Would you be open to sharing 1663 01:26:22,480 --> 01:26:24,920 what happened on that? Yeah, I'll give you a just a 1664 01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:28,960 short version of that. The in Uganda, the witch 1665 01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:33,680 doctors, among the things that they do that are awful child 1666 01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:36,440 sacrifice. And yet, in the country of 1667 01:26:36,440 --> 01:26:40,080 Uganda, nobody's ever taken a witch doctor on because they 1668 01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:41,920 believe that they have all the power. 1669 01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:45,840 And so then their lawyers won't do it, Courts won't hear the 1670 01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:48,480 cases. And then the victim's always 1671 01:26:48,480 --> 01:26:51,760 dead. But this one little kid will 1672 01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:55,320 just say his name is CC, gets attacked by Cobby. 1673 01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:58,360 And the belief is that the head or blood or private parts of a 1674 01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:00,680 little kid have these magical powers. 1675 01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:04,680 Cobby cuts off the private parts of this kid, leaves them for 1676 01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:06,160 dead. But the kid didn't die. 1677 01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:10,040 And so I get a call from Uganda. I'm in San Diego, and they say 1678 01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:13,960 we have a victim of this awful thing and the kid lived. 1679 01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:16,840 And so I get on a plane to fly to Uganda. 1680 01:27:17,120 --> 01:27:19,640 And I went and saw the Chief Justice of their Supreme Court 1681 01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:22,840 said, will you let me try Uganda's first death penalty 1682 01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:27,400 case against this witch doctor? And I said you will never find a 1683 01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:28,800 judge. And then we did. 1684 01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:33,760 And there's something beautiful about when you show up and it 1685 01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:37,280 the story isn't about you. It's about Charlie, a four foot 1686 01:27:37,280 --> 01:27:42,080 tall kid who stood up in court and say that's the man who tried 1687 01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:45,640 to kill me. Can you imagine a kid at 7 years 1688 01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:51,160 old to go through that? Well, the copy gets convicted. 1689 01:27:51,160 --> 01:27:56,600 He gets sent to Laziera prison on on death row and and but this 1690 01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:00,480 kid is horribly disfigured and he, you know, can't do things 1691 01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:03,400 that way. Boys do him and all that. 1692 01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:07,200 And so I get a phone call from a guy, his name is Randy Sherman. 1693 01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:10,600 And Randy says, you don't know me, but I heard what happened to 1694 01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:12,240 this little boy and I can fix him. 1695 01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:15,520 And I'm like, buddy, you do not know what got cut off because 1696 01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,480 you cannot fix that. And he said, I'm the chief of 1697 01:28:18,480 --> 01:28:20,920 surgery at Cedars Sinai Medical Center. 1698 01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:24,480 I can fix him. I'm like, are you kidding me? 1699 01:28:24,480 --> 01:28:26,200 I didn't say kidding, but that's what I meant. 1700 01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:31,600 And he said, he said, I'm going to take some arm and some leg 1701 01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:33,880 and we're going to make a new thing. 1702 01:28:33,880 --> 01:28:35,440 And I'm like, what would that cost? 1703 01:28:35,440 --> 01:28:39,040 He said, I'll do it for nothing. I'm like, I can afford nothing. 1704 01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:43,000 So I flew back to Uganda and I become the legal guardian of 1705 01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,080 this kid. I know some of the judges there 1706 01:28:45,080 --> 01:28:50,520 took me 45 minutes. And so now I'm flying back with 1707 01:28:51,120 --> 01:28:53,880 with little Charlie. And it was at the time, Obama, 1708 01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:58,400 Obama was the president. And I get a message on my text 1709 01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:01,880 message and it says we'd like to meet Charlie. 1710 01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:07,240 And the number is 202-456-1414. That's the White House. 1711 01:29:08,480 --> 01:29:11,360 I dialed a number because I got guys like you in my life who are 1712 01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:15,600 pranking me. And and so I buy a new ticket to 1713 01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:17,040 there. I'm still making payments on 1714 01:29:17,040 --> 01:29:21,280 that. And we fly to to Washington, DC. 1715 01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:24,720 And this kid, the two days before standing the Bush in 1716 01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:28,040 Uganda is now standing in the Oval Office. 1717 01:29:28,480 --> 01:29:30,840 I'm like that whole idea. But here's the deal. 1718 01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:33,760 What about Cobby? Like that idea of loving your 1719 01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,080 enemies? And it's easy to say that if you 1720 01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:39,080 went to Sunday school, but pretty hard to do that when you 1721 01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:42,760 have an enemy, when you've been wounded by somebody, like deeply 1722 01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:45,920 relationally or physically wounded. 1723 01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:52,360 So I started meeting Kabi on death row, and we struck up this 1724 01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:55,920 friendship, which it seems pretty unlikely because I'm the 1725 01:29:55,920 --> 01:30:01,200 guy that put him there and asked Kabi, like, what is that you 1726 01:30:01,200 --> 01:30:03,880 need? And he said, I need some shoes. 1727 01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:07,640 I looked down. I'm like, my next stop was 1728 01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:09,680 supposed to be their White House in Uganda. 1729 01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:13,240 So I took, I went into their White House barefoot because 1730 01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:16,640 Cobby has some nice floor shine shoes on. 1731 01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:21,720 This whole idea of just showing up in practical ways and Cobby 1732 01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:26,280 comes to faith and I'm not trying to talk people into or 1733 01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:28,840 out of faith. But the thing that was crazy 1734 01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:30,560 about that, I wasn't trying to keep him in. 1735 01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:33,760 I was actually trying to keep him out and I think sometimes 1736 01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:37,680 what we do is we need to re evaluate and say what is it do? 1737 01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:41,920 Can you rethink your views? Instead of saying I'm the good 1738 01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:45,920 guy, you're the bad guy, I'm the lawyer, you're the witch doctor. 1739 01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:51,720 And then we got copy said he wanted to talk to everybody on 1740 01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:53,640 death row. There's 3000 guys. 1741 01:30:53,880 --> 01:30:56,040 I asked the warden, he said would that be OK? 1742 01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:59,840 And so now we got 3000 guys and we're talking. 1743 01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:02,640 They know I'm the lawyer that put copy and he's the head of 1744 01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:07,640 the witch doctors and Cobby presents this like tells 1745 01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:10,120 whatever he thinks about faith. And you know what Miles? 1746 01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:13,480 He screwed it all up. I didn't I don't think he got 1747 01:31:13,480 --> 01:31:15,400 one thing right. I don't know if I believed in 1748 01:31:15,480 --> 01:31:18,160 Jesus when he was done. I'm like, what? 1749 01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:23,280 He messed it all up. And then all these guys start 1750 01:31:23,280 --> 01:31:26,280 coming toward a copy and he grabs a water bottle. 1751 01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:29,560 He starts baptizing him. Like, no, I don't think you can 1752 01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,000 do that. And I'm like, maybe I don't 1753 01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:36,480 know, splash me, buddy. So what I want to do is like 1754 01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:43,520 rethink some of our views about right and wrong. 1755 01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:47,280 I would go with the things that tell you they're wrong, Go with 1756 01:31:47,280 --> 01:31:49,240 that. But the people that have done 1757 01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:52,960 wrong, wrong I, I just don't see our friend that I'm going to 1758 01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:55,440 take to Disneyland for who he used to be. 1759 01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:57,480 I see him for who he's turning into. 1760 01:31:57,880 --> 01:31:59,840 He's the guy. He's going to have a pink shirt 1761 01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:03,400 on, I bet, because he followed my clothes washing instructions. 1762 01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:07,480 Like I think he's going to have an experience where he's going 1763 01:32:07,480 --> 01:32:10,840 to go to the back of the line where he thought he was going to 1764 01:32:10,840 --> 01:32:12,200 get cuts to the front of the line. 1765 01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:15,080 And I think we can engineer that in our friends. 1766 01:32:15,320 --> 01:32:18,760 Not that everybody's a teachable moment or everybody's a project 1767 01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:22,120 at all, but that we're doing life with a ton of intention 1768 01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:25,040 with like our eyes fixed on stuff that's going to actually 1769 01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:27,760 be lasting in our lives. And then you don't need to be 1770 01:32:28,040 --> 01:32:30,640 talking people into or out of anything. 1771 01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:33,680 I think I've appreciated that about you. 1772 01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:36,600 Like you aren't trying to talk me and I have a a strange 1773 01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:40,560 relationship. And I remember you saying, Hey, 1774 01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:43,040 why don't you write a letter to that person? 1775 01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:48,160 And I was like, oh, really? You know, and you said like, you 1776 01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:50,520 know, you weren't like dumping on me. 1777 01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:55,000 It wasn't code Rainbow. You were saying, what do you 1778 01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:56,240 write? And, you know, here's the deal. 1779 01:32:56,240 --> 01:32:59,360 I wrote the letter. And that didn't make me either 1780 01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:03,240 the hero or the victim of the story, but it did make me a 1781 01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:07,320 participant. And I'm grateful for people that 1782 01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:11,120 would be among your aid that will help you write the letters 1783 01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:16,040 that need to get written and, and, and not to have a response. 1784 01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:19,280 And, and that doesn't make the other person the good person or 1785 01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:23,360 the bad person. It just it's like you did your 1786 01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:25,800 part. And because I could lean on a 1787 01:33:25,800 --> 01:33:30,000 trusted friend to encourage me to take the next step, then 1788 01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:31,600 there's a freedom that comes with that. 1789 01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:33,760 Is it all fixed? No, it all fixed. 1790 01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:35,880 But you know what? I'm making headway. 1791 01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:39,800 And and those will be the things is give me the guts to show up 1792 01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:43,360 for other people to ask them to do hard things because of a 1793 01:33:43,360 --> 01:33:45,640 friend who told me, Hey, do hard things. 1794 01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:48,440 Like it's not even sucking it up. 1795 01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:52,160 It's that you would show up more for your family, more for the 1796 01:33:52,160 --> 01:33:54,920 people that mattered if you'll do a couple hard things. 1797 01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:58,560 And so I will always be grateful for that encouragement. 1798 01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:00,640 Thank you. Well, that's the reason I want 1799 01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:01,840 there. I could go into it. 1800 01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:04,040 We could be here 9 hours and I'd never run out of stories. 1801 01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:06,720 I could go into a vault of stories that I think, and I 1802 01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:09,000 think a lot of people that are familiar with you and followed 1803 01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:11,120 your work and read your books know some of these. 1804 01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:13,960 But the reason I wanted to recall one of those what I think 1805 01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:17,560 is a foundational story, it was because I think it's never been 1806 01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:21,360 more relevant than where we are today as a as a humankind. 1807 01:34:22,440 --> 01:34:27,240 I think we're not participating at large the way I've seen us at 1808 01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:29,720 other times in history, but I think we're right on the 1809 01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:32,320 precipice of being able to step back into that. 1810 01:34:32,480 --> 01:34:35,040 And so if anybody's out there and, and you're listening and 1811 01:34:35,040 --> 01:34:39,760 you're feeling a little isolated, a little defeated, 1812 01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:45,320 maybe a little frustrated by what the story we're getting fed 1813 01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:47,560 is how polarized things are. And I don't doubt that it's, 1814 01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:49,440 it's definitely a polarized climate. 1815 01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:55,240 Yet none of us are a hero or a victim. 1816 01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:56,680 But we can't all be participants. 1817 01:34:57,320 --> 01:35:01,720 And I really believe we can show up not just for the people who 1818 01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:04,720 we most relate to and that are easy to love. 1819 01:35:04,880 --> 01:35:07,320 We can also show up for the people who are hard to hear and 1820 01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:10,080 hard to tolerate. And I think once the temperature 1821 01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:12,680 starts to get turned down a little bit, then we'll do what 1822 01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:16,880 we talked about other earlier and, and we'll extend a bridge. 1823 01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:19,720 And I think we can start trusting each other again. 1824 01:35:19,880 --> 01:35:23,720 And I really believe the way humanity gets out of this and 1825 01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:27,480 comes back to itself is when we separate our differences and we 1826 01:35:27,480 --> 01:35:30,720 lock arms with our truth. And everybody's truth may be a 1827 01:35:30,720 --> 01:35:34,000 little different, but I think we can come together, participate 1828 01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:35,720 in each other's stories again. And I think that's what we're 1829 01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:39,400 longing for. And I, I, I personally, you 1830 01:35:39,400 --> 01:35:42,120 know, earlier you were saying it's hard to be the balloon guy 1831 01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:44,920 all the time. And it can also be hard to be 1832 01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:48,440 the guy that is in the deep end all the time because you don't 1833 01:35:48,440 --> 01:35:50,960 get sometimes you're not looked up on like, oh, I can't wait to 1834 01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,280 have you at the party. What are you doing? 1835 01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:56,800 You reading my lunch over there. And, and I've had to learn to 1836 01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:59,480 flex this other muscle more where you had to learn to drop 1837 01:35:59,480 --> 01:36:02,920 in and build some depth. I, I, I don't lighten up with 1838 01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:06,000 somebody until I really get some miles on the relationship. 1839 01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:09,320 So sometimes people never meet my funny or my humor muscle. 1840 01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:11,600 Yeah, 'cause you're like a really fun guy. 1841 01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:13,440 Yeah, you know me as like a goof. 1842 01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:14,600 Oh yeah. Totally a. 1843 01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:18,960 Misdemeanor is like the bottom and it goes up from there. 1844 01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:22,280 But for, for, for some reason, I, I, the way I position is 1845 01:36:22,280 --> 01:36:24,440 often I learn more into a little bit of flat affect. 1846 01:36:24,440 --> 01:36:26,080 So that can be misunderstanding too. 1847 01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:29,800 And but as I look at where we are today, and that's why I 1848 01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:31,200 wanted to have this conversation with you. 1849 01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:32,440 It's why it's so meaningful to me. 1850 01:36:32,440 --> 01:36:37,160 Just so re encouraged by the the trail of stories that you've 1851 01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:39,800 brought to us and by the especially the one you're living 1852 01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:42,040 into. Now that I'm looking at the 1853 01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:46,560 hourglass up here about where we go next, I really feel like a 1854 01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:49,080 lot of stuff dropped through. And I think we're getting ready 1855 01:36:49,080 --> 01:36:52,800 to turn this baby over and and start meeting each other where 1856 01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:57,240 we deserve to be met. And when I think about your 1857 01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:04,000 legacy, it's building itself. But I used to think it was look 1858 01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:06,120 at what all Bob has done. He's one of the most highest 1859 01:37:06,120 --> 01:37:08,760 capacity guys I know of all my friends. 1860 01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:11,520 I've never seen anybody that can handle the volume of things that 1861 01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:13,200 you create and innovate. And it is one of your 1862 01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:14,760 superpowers and it's fun to watch. 1863 01:37:15,760 --> 01:37:19,440 But really it's the stuff that every Thursday you're saying. 1864 01:37:19,480 --> 01:37:22,440 But this really matters. And I want to be known for all 1865 01:37:22,440 --> 01:37:24,960 that's fine if that all that happens, but I really want to be 1866 01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:29,640 known for taking Lindsay to the airport or spending time with my 1867 01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:31,920 grandkids or spending time with my friends. 1868 01:37:32,480 --> 01:37:33,840 And I want to be known for that too. 1869 01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:36,880 Because what we do know about the eight people standing around 1870 01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:39,680 our bed is that they've not been asked a lot of questions. 1871 01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:42,040 But who has been asked a lot of questions for the people on that 1872 01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:44,200 deathbed. They've been interviewed a lot. 1873 01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:46,960 And we kind of know the common theme that they come up with at 1874 01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:50,040 the end of life, which is this is the stuff that matters more 1875 01:37:50,040 --> 01:37:53,080 than anything we'll accomplish. It's the relationships that we 1876 01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:56,400 can pour into. So thank you for being one of my 1877 01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:58,440 8. Thank you for pouring into me 1878 01:37:58,560 --> 01:37:59,920 over the years the way that you do. 1879 01:37:59,920 --> 01:38:02,560 Thank you for being who you are. Feel like I'm saying that on 1880 01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:05,200 behalf of a whole lot of people that look up to to you. 1881 01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:08,760 But I just I love you. I love your family, I love our 1882 01:38:08,760 --> 01:38:13,080 friendship, and in many ways, I don't see it as the last chat. 1883 01:38:13,080 --> 01:38:14,280 I think we're just getting started. 1884 01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:17,160 I think this season of life, I'm just excited to share more of it 1885 01:38:17,160 --> 01:38:19,320 with you. So yeah, I'm just thinking I 1886 01:38:19,320 --> 01:38:24,200 want to say too all of that, you know, kind of end of camp 1887 01:38:24,200 --> 01:38:27,080 slideshow. All these slides are coming to 1888 01:38:27,080 --> 01:38:32,640 mind you and Vanessa sweet Marie and I at Disneyland before you 1889 01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:37,280 were engaged an engagement some kids start showing up some 1890 01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:40,160 adventures together and. Crab fishing together. 1891 01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:42,880 We got. No way I messed it up. 1892 01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:44,880 It's crabbing, right? Yeah, yeah, we got it crab 1893 01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:46,680 fishing. But at the end of the day, man, 1894 01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:48,360 it's just done. So we're good. 1895 01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:50,160 I've never done it with crab. You taught me all about that. 1896 01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:51,680 That was, but I think there's just something. 1897 01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:55,760 So my hope for somebody listening is that when you see 1898 01:38:56,200 --> 01:39:00,560 friendships that involve lots of different layering, then 1899 01:39:00,560 --> 01:39:03,600 endeavor to do that. Don't try to just take the next 1900 01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:07,520 layer with somebody. Call them up and say, hey, I was 1901 01:39:07,880 --> 01:39:09,640 talking to some friends with listening to the thing. 1902 01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:11,760 What's it feel like to be you right now? 1903 01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:15,080 And let me tell you for three minutes, let's just let me just 1904 01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:17,800 tell you what it feels like to meet me and don't say anything. 1905 01:39:18,160 --> 01:39:21,200 And then you go for three minutes and take him to 1906 01:39:21,200 --> 01:39:25,040 Starbucks, make them pay and then have just three minutes of 1907 01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:28,760 vulnerability and I bet you will have filled one of your 8. 1908 01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:31,040 And then to say I'm going to be in the hunt. 1909 01:39:31,080 --> 01:39:34,120 Who's the next one and three minutes and maybe a no go. 1910 01:39:34,120 --> 01:39:36,000 Don't make a new rule. I'm never going deep with 1911 01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:38,240 anybody. Just try somebody else and 1912 01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:40,000 you'll find those. So thanks for being that. 1913 01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:44,320 And you've been there at the most difficult parts of our 1914 01:39:44,320 --> 01:39:48,920 story so far, and we're counting on you to continue to track with 1915 01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:49,880 us. And we'll be there for you. 1916 01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:51,000 Yeah. Amen. 1917 01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:54,520 And I would say allow yourself to be wild and surprised about 1918 01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:57,960 who that might because it you hear us talking about some 1919 01:39:57,960 --> 01:40:01,760 Commons that we have, but we were an unlikely friendship and 1920 01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:03,040 that's my favorite part about it. 1921 01:40:03,040 --> 01:40:05,240 We didn't come together immediately on here's what you 1922 01:40:05,240 --> 01:40:06,320 believe and I believe the same thing. 1923 01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:08,920 So we should be friends. It was like, here's two people 1924 01:40:08,920 --> 01:40:10,840 that we didn't even get to that until later. 1925 01:40:10,840 --> 01:40:13,720 It was just two people that kind of connected and saw a common 1926 01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:16,040 and we built it from there. And it's been really fun to do. 1927 01:40:16,040 --> 01:40:19,760 So I hope if you're out there today, be encouraged because I 1928 01:40:19,760 --> 01:40:22,280 am to sit across from one of my good friends today and for you 1929 01:40:22,280 --> 01:40:24,200 guys to hear his heart. So thank you, buddy. 1930 01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:27,520 Thanks, bud. Well, that's a wrap and I just 1931 01:40:27,640 --> 01:40:30,920 want to share my gratitude and thank you all so much for 1932 01:40:30,920 --> 01:40:34,400 following along on this journey and for subscribing and leaving 1933 01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:37,840 us reviews and sharing these podcast episodes. 1934 01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:40,640 This has been so meaningful and encouraging to me and it's been 1935 01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:42,280 encouraging to a lot of other people as well. 1936 01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:44,320 And you are the fuel behind this whole thing for me. 1937 01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:48,120 When I hear from you, when we get to engage with you, it just 1938 01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:51,440 it really pushes us to want to continue to take these 1939 01:40:51,440 --> 01:40:54,320 conversations to more and more people who we really feel like 1940 01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:55,840 deserve to grow, change, and heal. 1941 01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:58,360 So I hope you'll follow along. I hope you'll subscribe. 1942 01:40:58,360 --> 01:40:59,720 I hope you'll leave us some reviews. 1943 01:40:59,720 --> 01:41:02,120 And I just want to say thank you again, and I'll see you next 1944 01:41:02,120 --> 01:41:03,080 time on Human School.