1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,440 Welcome to Touchgrass, a miniseries where I chat with 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,160 creatives about staying sane while being chronically online. 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,920 I'm your host, Lauren Meisner, and Touchgrass is a miniseries 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,240 brought to you by Britta, where we explore the implications of 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,760 being chronically online with creatives who can't escape it. 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,840 One thing that keeps coming up in these conversations is how 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,320 important small grounding routines are offline. 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,480 And for me, one of those routines is drinking enough 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,400 water. Whether I'm refilling my water 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,320 bottle before a long walk or taking a break from scrolling my 11 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,000 For You page, Britta makes it easy for me to stay hydrated and 12 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,040 grounded with pure, fresh tasting filtered water straight 13 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,880 from any tap. Thank you to Britta for 14 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,040 supporting independent media and helping us take better care of 15 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:48,320 ourselves, one refill at a time. Today I'm chatting with Megan 16 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,680 Pastetto, the host of Australia's biggest reality TV 17 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,240 podcast, So Dramatic, and the founder of a new podcast 18 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:56,760 network. Kind Regards. 19 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,040 During this chat, Megan and I discuss her rapid rise to 20 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,160 success in the podcasting industry, the hard parts of 21 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,240 building a new business, the toll that Internet trolls have 22 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,040 had on her mental health, and how her audience keeps her 23 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,800 going. Welcome Megan to Touch Grass. 24 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,840 Hi, thanks for having me. OK, so you are our finale 25 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,000 episode and unfortunately we did have to record this inside. 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,360 We cannot be touching grass today 'cause it is raining this 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,600 afternoon. But we got 9 out of No 7 out of 28 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:29,840 eight. I was like, how many episodes of 29 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,920 this have we done? 7 out of eight episodes outside? 30 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:36,320 So I feel like that's a win. But welcome to our cute little 31 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:38,720 studio. We did deck out with some plants 32 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,520 and stuff like that for the vibe. 33 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,160 Touch the plant. Yeah, we're touching and I 34 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,040 actually really need to touch some girls, so it's a shame. 35 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,120 Yeah, literally. Well, that's what you're here to 36 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,080 do today is talk about all of this. 37 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:53,000 Let it all out. So we start by asking everyone, 38 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,640 do you consider yourself chronically online? 39 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,400 I think I've even more than chronically online. 40 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,560 I live online and I'm and I'm not actually like one of those 41 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,440 people that enjoys being online. I just have to for work. 42 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,240 So I find it really challenging to constantly be online. 43 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,120 As you would know, it's super draining and it really sucks the 44 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,440 life out of you, especially now with everything going on. 45 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,760 It's like you're on the feed and you just feel depressed and 46 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,320 there's so much going on and drama. 47 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,200 It's just it can get a lot. Yeah, it's a lot. 48 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,960 I completely get it. So, okay, so tell us why you 49 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,440 have to be chronically online for work. 50 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,160 Give us a bit of a breakdown into who you are and your career 51 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,760 trajectory. So I host the So Dramatic 52 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:35,200 podcast, which is what started my business now and it's 53 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,360 covering reality TV gossip. So that involves me being online 54 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,480 a lot, checking what people are posting, finding out what's 55 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,840 going on and tip offs constant, which is probably why I'm online 56 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,040 a lot. Like my inbox is just I have to 57 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,720 constantly be checking it to see what's coming in to get all of 58 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:57,000 the tea out straight away. But yeah, so I do that podcast 59 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,840 and then we've launched a few other spin off shows from that. 60 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,960 And recently last year actually I launched a podcast network 61 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,880 called Kind Regards. So now we have multiple podcasts 62 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,480 on the network. So that involves being online to 63 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,120 post things for all of the pods, posting stuff on my page, 64 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:14,840 posting stuff on my personal page. 65 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,880 I'm literally like the amount of accounts that I've got on my 66 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,200 Meta thing. I think I've reached the maximum 67 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,440 now. It's it's crazy. 68 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,320 I feel like I'm always just on Instagram and Facebook. 69 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,320 It's it's a lot, yeah. So how many pieces of content do 70 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:30,960 you think you do every single week? 71 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,680 We used to do a lot more. I had a social media girl that 72 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,560 was just her job was just to post on socials and we would we 73 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,480 could do like 20 posts a day just on the so dramatic account. 74 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,000 Sometimes more. I think during like a busy 75 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,840 season with married at first sight, possibly more. 76 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,000 That's insane. Yes. 77 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,720 Now we've cut down. We stopped doing like the news 78 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,440 updates. We were doing like a lot of like 79 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,600 that and I just got so much I was finding just really 80 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,240 overwhelmed by the comments because even that is moderating 81 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,400 the comments is like a full time job seeing what people are 82 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,440 commenting. And I was like, I need to switch 83 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,560 some of this noise off because it was just so overwhelming. 84 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,920 So we actually cut back and now we're just doing like snippets 85 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,480 from the pod or teasers or promos for the episodes, videos 86 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:15,960 from episodes and stuff like that. 87 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,880 So at the moment, I'd say probably like 3 posts a day, 88 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,520 which is that's still a lot, still a lot. 89 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,360 But from doing 20 and it's just, I found it's been a lot more 90 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,520 easy because it's just the comments like it gets a bit 91 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,160 overwhelming. People are attacking you. 92 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,920 And yeah, it's a lot. The notifications like Ding Ding 93 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:35,000 Ding. Yeah. 94 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,000 No, you have a tough job like the industry specifically that 95 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,600 you report on. It's so volatile because it's 96 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,920 got so many big personalities. And obviously you're staying 97 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,560 quite local with what you cover, at least you used to. 98 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:51,480 And I imagine that's really tough reporting on mostly like 99 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,000 the local scene. Can you tell me why you think so 100 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,880 dramatic was so successful so quickly? 101 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,040 Yeah, it really did blow up overnight. 102 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:02,720 By my second episode, I had Abby Chatfield on and she just come 103 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,320 off Bachelor in Paradise. It was a first interview and it 104 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,600 was a really great interview. And it was my second episode. 105 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,000 And I hadn't come from like speaking on camera and doing 106 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,440 anything like I was a writer. So I was like, Oh my God, it 107 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,600 blew up. And I was like, what have I 108 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,200 done? Like it was meant to just be 109 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,080 like a hobby project during COVID just to keep me busy. 110 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,680 And it blew up literally overnight. 111 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,760 And I was like, oh God, this is like a lot. 112 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,640 And just again, all the comments and the feedback, I wasn't used 113 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,480 to like all of that. And it was just quite 114 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,200 overwhelming. And then by episode 7, we did 115 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,200 like this massive episode with two girls that came off 116 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,840 Bachelor. They didn't do a reunion that 117 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:41,800 year because of COVID. So I kind of had them on to do a 118 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,320 reunion and it was a really explosive episode and it went 119 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,280 viral. Like I think I had like over 120 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:49,280 100,000 downloads like in the in the first day. 121 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:51,480 Like it was just wow. It went viral. 122 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,080 Like every news outlet picked it up. 123 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,680 So and then it just kept growing from that, like just each 124 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,760 episode finding new like audience and stuff. 125 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,000 But I think because the content is quite like it's water cooler 126 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,680 content, people are watching these shows, they'll it's 127 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,160 topical, it's happening right now. 128 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,560 They want like the freshest like updates and stuff. 129 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,280 And if you get like a really good interview, it's like we 130 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:12,680 wanted we have to listen to it because we're watching and all 131 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,600 of that. So I was really lucky with the 132 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,360 content. And then I think the timing as 133 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:21,000 well, it was during COVID and a lot of people just didn't have 134 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,960 anything to do. It was really good escapism. 135 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,040 It was something to preoccupy them with, like something to 136 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,400 take their minds off what was going on. 137 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,240 And they obviously had a lot of time as well to be like involved 138 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,120 in it, consumed by it. And yeah, it kind of just 139 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,400 snowballed from there. And I think I think the content 140 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,200 is probably, but a mix of the timing. 141 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,200 I had really good connections with the cars. 142 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,120 Like I just got really lucky on a number of fronts. 143 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,520 But in saying that, like, I did work really hard as well, like 144 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,320 working around the clock, and it became like my only thing that I 145 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,240 was doing during COVID, probably not healthy, but paid off. 146 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:56,200 Yeah. So yeah, I think it was a 147 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,640 combination of things. But I think if I was to do it 148 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,800 like launch it today, I don't think it would be as successful. 149 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,640 It was just, yeah, a really perfect storm of everything. 150 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,800 Yeah, I also think I could be wrong, but I also feel like you 151 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,680 were maybe the first reality TV podcast in Australia. 152 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,080 Yeah, and no one still. I mean, there has been sort of 153 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,760 copycat podcasts that have popped up, which I find 154 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,600 flattering, but it's it's easy when you're the first, you know, 155 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:23,760 it's like kind of like call her Daddy. 156 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,800 It's like no one was doing that. So they're always going to be 157 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,160 like the OG in the first ones. So yeah, that was great. 158 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,640 But even now it's like people still aren't really doing what 159 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,560 I'm doing. They'll do like a recap or 160 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,080 interviews. But me getting like this 161 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,640 exclusive T, which was our point of difference, it was like we're 162 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,840 breaking exclusives. We're not like regurgitating 163 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,960 stuff that's out there. It was all original content. 164 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,520 So I think that also helped set us apart because it was stuff 165 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:47,760 that they couldn't get elsewhere. 166 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,560 So like, even if people hate listening to me, they're like, 167 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,840 but we love the tea. We need to listen to know what's 168 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,320 going on, you know what I mean? Whereas other podcasts, it's 169 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,800 like they're listening because they like the host or they they 170 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,040 like the content. But with this one, it's like we 171 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,880 have to listen, you know? You're forcing, sorry. 172 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,320 I know literally I have people that are like, oh, I can't stand 173 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,040 you, but I don't want, I want to know what's going on. 174 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,720 Maths, you know, or they like the people that I've interviewed 175 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:12,360 and so I think that was good as well. 176 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,880 And I've kind of stuck to that. We tried to do like a spin off 177 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,160 where it was regurgitating other news and I just found like it 178 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,800 wasn't a successful because it's like, well, you can go and read 179 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,800 that elsewhere. You have to kind of keep your 180 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,320 point of difference and give them something that they can't 181 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,200 get anywhere else. Yeah, you do such an amazing 182 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,600 blend of I suppose like more traditional journalism with new 183 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,000 media. So can you tell me a little bit 184 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,840 about your background in media pre so dramatic I. 185 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,920 Started off as a fashion writer, working for like online fashion 186 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,520 places and going to Fashion Week and I was more like in the 187 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,440 lifestyle space, which I kind of wish that I'd stuck to. 188 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,880 It's a lot less stressful than what I'm doing now. 189 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,360 And then after that, I was looking for like a stable full 190 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,240 time job. And the Daily Mail had just 191 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,400 launched in Australia. So I started working for them 192 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,800 and got a job as an entertainment reporter. 193 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,640 I was there for a few years. It was such a good starting 194 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,440 point in terms of like getting that newsroom experience. 195 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,680 Like I don't want to say like I learned journalism there because 196 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:16,680 I feel like it's quite a it's yeah, yeah, learn quite bad 197 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:18,320 habits. But it was just good to get that 198 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,480 like experience in The Newsroom. It was quite brutal. 199 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:22,680 It was fast-paced. So I feel like that really set 200 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:24,480 me up. And then after that I went into 201 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,480 digital content producing at magazines, worked, worked doing 202 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,040 that for a little bit. I was even on the Kyle and 203 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,680 Jackie O Show doing digital producing like social media. 204 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,720 I did PR for a little bit. Actually that was before, that 205 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,000 was before entertainment journalism. 206 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,600 I did PR. So I've done radio magazines 207 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,080 online. Then I went into magazines doing 208 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:44,920 entertainment reporting. So I kind of went backwards. 209 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,800 Most people start doing like print and then they go into 210 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,080 digital. I went the opposite. 211 00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:52,000 And at the time I was like, oh, I haven't stuck to like one 212 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,160 thing like this is really bad. I've done like everything and 213 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,680 whenever I would go for jobs, I felt like my skills were too 214 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,680 diverse, like of too many things that it was kind of hard to me 215 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:05,440 for me to even be like, what do I want to do? 216 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:06,960 Like which skills do I enjoy the most? 217 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,720 And then now in hindsight, I'm like everything that I did, all 218 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,160 of those different jobs and career paths, everything that I 219 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,920 learned in all of those jobs has set me up to do what I'm doing 220 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:18,280 now. It was like, in hindsight, it 221 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,440 was giving me the skills that I needed to do this, like setting 222 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,280 me up for like what I was eventually meant to do, I guess. 223 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,720 So I'm really lucky that I tried heaps of things because I think 224 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,840 a lot of people can pigeonhole themselves as well. 225 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,160 So yeah. And then I went into Maggie's. 226 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,720 I was working in magazines, left there because I was like, it's a 227 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,520 bit of a crazy story, but magazines used to be so have so 228 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,120 much money in buying stories from people. 229 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,840 So they would buy like paparazzi photos. 230 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,480 They would buy stories of people, and I was seeing how 231 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,080 much we were buying these stories for, and I was getting 232 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,120 these stories for them for free on a salary. 233 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,320 And I'm like, Oh my God, I could be making so much more money 234 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,440 freelancing and selling these stories. 235 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,400 So that's what I did. I went freelance and I was 236 00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,280 working with like, paparazzi to set up photos with talent. 237 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,440 So if there was like a reality star, I'd say, you know, you're 238 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,200 on the show, like, let's get some photos of you. 239 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,200 We'll pay you. You won't have to deal with the 240 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,720 paparazzi because I was like the middleman doing that. 241 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:11,760 There's a lot of paparazzis. People don't want to deal with 242 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,680 them because they're crazy. And so I would like make the 243 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:17,360 whole process easy for them, make it easy for the paparazzi. 244 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,600 And we were making like such good money. 245 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,600 Then I was like selling stories to like different outlets like 246 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,640 writing and things like that. And then we were, we were doing 247 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,360 so well. And then COVID happened and it 248 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,040 all dried up because no one could leave the house. 249 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,240 And then outlets didn't really have budgets for freelancers. 250 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:33,920 And then I was like, what am I going to do? 251 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:35,560 I was on Job Seeker. Oh my God, just start the 252 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:37,720 podcast. I put all this content that I 253 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,320 was selling on the pod because I kind of already had it in 254 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,160 advance ready to go. But there's no point wasting it. 255 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:44,840 I'll do a pod. I've always wanted to try 256 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,600 podcasting, and that's how it started. 257 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,600 That's amazing. Six years later, I'm stuck with 258 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:51,640 it. Stuck with it. 259 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,160 Still here? So you are, as you mentioned, 260 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,760 the founder of Kind Regards Network. 261 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,320 Can you tell me about the difference between being a very 262 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,560 successful solo podcaster to now having a network? 263 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:08,600 What is that done for? I suppose both your career but 264 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,320 also your mental health. Mental health has been 265 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,160 destroyed. OK, girl, yes, as you would 266 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,000 know, just I think having I think if I was doing just one, 267 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,880 like the network, also dramatic, it would be fine. 268 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,280 But doing both has been a lot. I think I've definitely taken on 269 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:28,080 more than I can handle and I've spread myself super thin. 270 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,000 So I've been trying to pull back a bit recently as well, but it's 271 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,920 been really good. I feel like it's really 272 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,280 challenged me in different ways to so dramatic 'cause there's 273 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,240 only so much you can do with your show because you're kind of 274 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,240 limited to like what the content is and what the audience wants. 275 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,880 And I found like I could flex my creative side more with the 276 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,920 network, like coming up with ideas for new shows, doing the 277 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,080 branding, the ideation, the content. 278 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,920 I've loved all of that, like the creative process behind it. 279 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,840 I, I found that I've loved doing that the most and I found it 280 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,320 really invigorating because it's, it's something different, 281 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:00,680 a different muscle that you're flexing. 282 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:02,640 So I found it really good because when you've been doing 283 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,720 the same show for so long, you can get like a bit where you're 284 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,760 just kind of going through the motions. 285 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,200 It gets a bit repetitive. And I'm one of those people that 286 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,000 like, I would leave a job in six months or a year if I didn't 287 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,320 feel like I was being challenged or I'd learn everything that I 288 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,040 could. I get bored quite easily. 289 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,000 So it was a good change up. I wish I just could clone myself 290 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,360 and do both because I enjoy both so much. 291 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:26,800 But it's been really good. It's been really challenging and 292 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,520 exciting and rewarding. We've launched like really cool 293 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,240 shows and it's been cool to like work with different people and 294 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,480 do different things that I wasn't able to do with so 295 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,600 dramatic. Do you have a long term vision 296 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,760 for kind regards or are you just like seeing where it goes for 297 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,120 now? We probably launched being a 298 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,000 little bit, I wouldn't say ambitious, but we like, I've 299 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,360 learnt a lot as well in a short amount of time. 300 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,600 It's just really hard, I think in this day and age to start a 301 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,920 podcast and make it go viral. And I think I was used to so 302 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,840 dramatic, just popping off overnight that I was like, OK, 303 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,880 wow. Like I didn't, I don't want to 304 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,360 say lucky. I hate saying lucky because I 305 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,120 have worked super hard on it, but it's so much harder now 306 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:09,880 because there's so much content out there. 307 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,160 There's so many podcasts. It's such a competitive space 308 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,240 now that it's not as easy as just starting or having good 309 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,360 content or even having someone super famous or well known that 310 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,800 has a huge following online. It doesn't always translate into 311 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,320 lessons. Like some people, they're like 312 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,000 their followers are following them because they like them on 313 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,160 Instagram. It doesn't mean that they're 314 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:30,960 going to go and listen to them for an hour. 315 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,440 And we've actually found that some of the shows that had hosts 316 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,440 that weren't influences or didn't have a following have 317 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,280 done better in some degrees. And that's just because they've 318 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,520 really focused on building their community or they've hit like a 319 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,680 niche market or. Yeah, just maybe afraid to share 320 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,240 their opinions and things. Like that or they're promoting 321 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:52,680 it. Well, yeah, I've just I've. 322 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,280 That's a that's been a real surprise to me and something 323 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,840 really like a good lesson. I'm like communities, everything 324 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,720 in this space. Like it's not just about having, 325 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,400 you know, like followers on Instagram, It's it's about like 326 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,840 really fostering that community. And I think that's also why so 327 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,960 dramatic has grown to the level that it has because of that 328 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:12,520 community. I've got the feed, constant 329 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,000 feedback with my audience. I'm quite involved in our 330 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,200 community, constantly speaking to them. 331 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,280 I've constantly got people sending me in tip offs that get 332 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,200 included on the podcast. So I think they love that 333 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,960 feedback of like, oh, my information is on the pod. 334 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,960 I always say the podcast is a group effort and I think that 335 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,080 community, it really is though at the start I was having to 336 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,320 find all of the content through my sources. 337 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,400 And now it's got to the point where I can just open up my tip 338 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,440 folder and I'm like, there's so much in here. 339 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:40,560 So good. So they're kind of doing my job 340 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,280 for me, which I'm so grateful for. 341 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,080 Although just even send me stuff or give me feedback. 342 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,800 So I think that is really what's also helped contribute to the 343 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,320 success. And I always say that to 344 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,880 creators that are starting podcast now. 345 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:53,040 I'm like, it's all about the community. 346 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,880 You want your listeners to feel like they're an active part of 347 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,720 the podcast because people are choosing to listen to you and 348 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,680 you're in their ears, like on their commute or, you know, 349 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,800 doing stuff at home and walking. And it's it's more intimate 350 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,920 than, you know, TV and radio. So I think just having that 351 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,000 level of relationship with your audience is really important. 352 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,800 Totally. Like they're investing in you, 353 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,160 like you're investing in them, but they're investing in you as 354 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,480 well, 100%. Can you tell me about some of 355 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:26,600 the hard parts of having such a big and very engaged audience? 356 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,440 Where do I start? I would say the trolling I have 357 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,440 struggled with and I don't want to be like poor me, but I find 358 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,960 that I get a lot of criticism that is unwarranted. 359 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,880 And I don't want to say like I'm perfect. 360 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,560 I've obviously made mistakes. But I feel like I have male 361 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,520 colleagues that are doing the same thing in the same space. 362 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,200 And I'll find that that they, they can go on their podcast and 363 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,840 say something really misogynistic, really 364 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,320 problematic, slut shaming. And like no one will say 365 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,320 anything. I'm like checking the comments 366 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:01,640 for like one person to pick it up. 367 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,120 And I'm like, what the hell, hello. 368 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,480 And then I go on my page and I will get criticism for things 369 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,520 that I've haven't done at all. Like I get accused of doing 370 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,359 things I haven't done or just like criticism over the smallest 371 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,319 things that will turn into like a bit of not a pile. 372 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,280 I don't want to say a pile and I don't really like that word, but 373 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,640 it will turn into a bit of like unwarranted criticism and 374 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,800 backlash that it's like it's not justified or comparative, I 375 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,480 guess, to what other people are getting. 376 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,320 So I feel like because you're a woman in the space doing it, and 377 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,840 especially because I'm quite outspoken and I don't hold back 378 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,040 and I I don't care about calling people out. 379 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,800 Like, I'm not afraid to, you know, say, say how I feel it 380 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,840 robs people up the wrong way because I think they're not used 381 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,880 to, like, women being confident and outspoken that they just 382 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,200 kind of want to hate on you. And I find as well, the most 383 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,640 shocking thing to me was that it's not from men. 384 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,160 It's from other women, really. Yeah. 385 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,680 Like the just the internalized misogyny. 386 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,520 I think I've really struggled with that because I'm just like, 387 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,160 this is fair. Come on, guys, if you're going 388 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,800 to criticize me, like criticize them too. 389 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,200 So that's been really hard, just the backlash as well. 390 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,840 And because it's quite explosive, scandalous. 391 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,880 It's like quite shocking at times that you kind of get 392 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,320 dragged in by association. They're like, well, you said 393 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,360 this or like you posted that and it's it's a lot harder than just 394 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,800 doing like beauty or lifestyle. Recaps even, right? 395 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,240 It's hard. It's harder than doing, just 396 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,200 like you said even. Recaps. 397 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,640 Yeah. Or like you have an opinion that 398 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,560 someone doesn't agree with and they really want to tell you 399 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,400 that and it's. It can get a lot sometimes. 400 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,200 I've found the bigger that the audience has grown and the show 401 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,080 has grown, that even just the noise that's out there, like the 402 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,840 comments, like I was saying before, just trying to block out 403 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,520 that noise. So you're like, wait, how do I 404 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,440 actually feel about this? And you've got like all these 405 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,920 outside influences that are like, oh, you shouldn't have 406 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,880 done this or you should say this or you missed that or blah, 407 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:46,920 blah, blah. I don't like the direction 408 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:48,480 you're going in. And sometimes you just need to 409 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,040 block it out. Yeah, cuz it's like feedback is 410 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,480 great, but sometimes you're never gonna make everyone happy. 411 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,560 So you start taking on everyone's feedback. 412 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:57,920 You're just gonna become paralyzed. 413 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,400 Like, I can't do anything. Yeah, I. 414 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,760 Got some advice, I don't know, maybe like 2 years ago, I would 415 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,040 say when we started doing the daily podcast. 416 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:11,280 I do get a lot of like suggestions and feedback and 417 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,560 requests. And I got some advice back then 418 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,680 where somebody said like you can listen to the feedback, but you 419 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,720 don't need to take it on board and it, but it's very hard to 420 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,480 find the line because like you said, then you start to get in 421 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,520 your head where you're like, well, I don't want to, you know, 422 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,200 upset my audience who comes every single day. 423 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,400 I want to give them what they want. 424 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,160 You know, that's important to me that we're providing something 425 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,920 that they're interested in and all of this stuff. 426 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,160 It gets very confusing all of the noise. 427 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,400 And everyone has an opinion, but it doesn't mean they're 428 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,000 necessarily right. And I've gone to the point now 429 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,680 where I'm like, OK, I'll take it on board. 430 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,480 But also, like, even just friends that are like, oh, I 431 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,960 think you should be doing more of this. 432 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,880 I like, I know my show with my audience more than anyone. 433 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,920 Like, I know what works. Yeah, you sometimes you just 434 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,920 need to listen to yourself and you know what's right. 435 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,840 And I've been doing it for six years now. 436 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,520 It's like I kind of have a good gauge on, like, what works and 437 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,520 what doesn't. But it can be hard to just block 438 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,640 out the noise because you've got so many people wanting to give 439 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,440 their opinion and. I think that's kind of a bit of 440 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,680 a challenge. And it's hard being a solo 441 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,560 founder. That's what I found going from 442 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,600 being in a Co founder relationship and feeling so much 443 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,640 more sure of my decisions and where the business was going. 444 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,520 I think because I had someone else who was like, at my level 445 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,120 making, yeah, like making decisions with me and then now 446 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,640 being so low. And I'm, you know, I have that 447 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,040 contrast to look at, but you've always been so low. 448 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,320 It's so much more challenging now solo. 449 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,080 I really didn't expect that. And yeah, same thing. 450 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,240 Like I'll have friends now when I'm talking to them about the 451 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,000 business things that I would have talked to my Co founder 452 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,960 about before. And I'm just, you know, venting 453 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,680 to them or whatever. And they're like, oh, you should 454 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,560 do this or that. Like one of my best friends said 455 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,720 to me very recently, like just a few months ago, she was like, I 456 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,280 would never listen to like a 20 minute podcast. 457 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,120 Like your podcast episode should be an hour long. 458 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:50,000 I was like, well, I do them Monday to Friday and people 459 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,400 listen to them while they're like commuting. 460 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,880 And like you said, like I know my audience, like I've, I've put 461 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,440 out this product and it is successful. 462 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,000 Like I know that I don't need that feedback. 463 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,280 And you also need to put out content that you enjoy. 464 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,920 Like I found when I was trying to please everyone else, I just 465 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,160 wasn't into the content. And it just, it really reflected 466 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,440 like it showed. And I'm like, I need to speak 467 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,400 about things that I'm passionate about or cover things that I 468 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,680 want to speak about because I'll do a better job of it. 469 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,480 But yeah, it can be hard to block out all of those opinions. 470 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,720 And you do want opinions and you want to bounce off people, but 471 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,120 at the same time, you kind of just need to like, listen to 472 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,520 your gut. So you have been pretty open 473 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,760 here and there about how you've considered walking away from so 474 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,560 dramatic in the past. Can you tell me a little bit 475 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,520 about? That I don't know I mean, I have 476 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,920 considered walking away many times, but I don't think I was 477 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,840 ever like meaning it because, and I always say this to my 478 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,400 audience. I'm like, was it for you guys? 479 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,880 I would have walked away, but my audience keeps me going. 480 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,560 Like I love them so much. They I know how much it means to 481 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:47,640 them. I know that it's like an 482 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,440 escapism for them. Some of them have been listening 483 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,880 to me for six years now that I don't know, like even covering 484 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,880 maths this year, which is our biggest show, I've pulled back a 485 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,080 lot. Like last year I was doing 14 486 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,680 episodes a week. Girl. 487 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,320 Yeah, so I. You would record them twice a 488 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,840 day basically. And two or three times a day and 489 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,080 some of them are like an hour long. 490 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:10,800 They weren't like 5 minute ones. Some of, because some of my 491 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,680 competitors do like 2 minute episodes and mine are always at 492 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,560 least like 20 minutes. And they're like, you didn't get 493 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,920 this out first And I'm like yeah, well mine is like 494 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,160 researched. Well, I'm like putting effort 495 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,760 into it. I'm like making it entertaining 496 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,520 for you. So yeah, 14 episodes because 497 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,800 we've got our subscriber channel as well, right This year. 498 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,200 I had a bit of a breakdown last year just with opening the 499 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:36,680 second business and usually maths like 3 or 4 months. 500 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,840 I go hard because you get the payoff and there's people 501 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,400 listening. If you do the same amount of 502 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,840 work during another show, the audience isn't there so you you 503 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,000 won't get the the payoff. So I usually didn't mind. 504 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,520 And then after maths I would just fully burn out and crash. 505 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,640 And I did that last year, ended up in hospital. 506 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,400 And when I was in hospital, we were launching the second 507 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,040 business and we'd already like started. 508 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,040 So first my the first, I was in the hospital for two weeks. 509 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,880 The first day I was in hospital, my team had just started for the 510 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,520 new business. So I couldn't even really back 511 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,080 out of it if I wanted to because it was it was all motions go 512 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,400 we'd already like so far deep in already. 513 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,120 So I had a bit of a breakdown last year because I was just 514 00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:13,880 overwhelmed. And then the trolling took a bit 515 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,160 of a toll as well. I think if you're not in a good 516 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,120 headspace or you're already like burnt out, that usually I'm 517 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,680 pretty good with trolling and I don't want to say good with 518 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,600 trolling, but I didn't even read the comments. 519 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,520 I'm like, oh, whatever, someone else is attacking me. 520 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:27,920 But when you're like already at that point where you're not 521 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,200 coping, that can just add an extra like you cannot deal with 522 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,960 it as as well. So like that happened last year. 523 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,480 But my audience, I just feel like, so I don't want to like 524 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,240 lose them. And I'm like, we've built this 525 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,680 amazing community. So this year I pulled back a 526 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,760 little bit where I'm doing just one episode a day pretty much. 527 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,520 And it's been a bit, it's been better. 528 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,480 It's still a lot, though. Still a lot. 529 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,640 That's a huge workload. Do you do all your own editing? 530 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,680 So I do everything myself. I've never had a producer. 531 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,720 So I'm doing all of the content myself, researching, scripting, 532 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,880 hosting, producing. And then I've got someone who 533 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,200 edits my audio, but I'll still do another edit after them. 534 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,040 Like I'm a bit of a control freak. 535 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,200 So it's it's very hands on. And then you've got socials to 536 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,280 do, you've got team A-Team to manage, you've got meetings and 537 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,680 all of the business side. It's it's a lot. 538 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,240 It's a lot. I don't know how you are doing 539 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,440 that much content, everything. Yeah, I'm not really. 540 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,600 Not really. No, you're not coping. 541 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,600 OK, well let's talk about how you do cope then. 542 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:31,200 So when you are feeling under attack from trolls or you're 543 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,640 dealing with something really heavy in the business, how do 544 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,880 you personally cope with it? Oh, that's a hard question. 545 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,400 I don't know. Like, is there an answer for 546 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,560 that? I don't know. 547 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,080 If someone knows let me know because I don't know. 548 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,440 You just have to get through it. I'm pretty. 549 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,800 Like, I'm usually pretty good because people like, how do you 550 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,280 deal with all of this bullshit, like all of these attacks and 551 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,160 like just all the comments and haters and stuff. 552 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,200 I was pretty good at blocking it out. 553 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,520 And I kind of used to laugh. There's a stage where I found it 554 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,280 really funny. I was like, Oh my God, these 555 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,480 comments are crazy. But like I said before, if 556 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,000 you're not in a good headspace, it really can trigger you. 557 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,000 I don't know, I try to switch off if I ever get to that point. 558 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,560 Like a couple of weeks ago, I had a bit of a breakdown and I 559 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,080 just, I just turned off like 2 days. 560 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,720 I just switched my phone off when I got a massage, went to 561 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:20,680 the sauna. Yeah. 562 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,680 Just all of that health stuff, which I probably should do more 563 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,240 regularly to prevent the burnout. 564 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,200 But I don't know, I think just if you can, if you're in the 565 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,000 right head space, like laughing at it is the best approach. 566 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,800 I'm always like, if you don't laugh, you'll cry. 567 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,680 But I don't think there is really a right way to deal with 568 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,160 it. I think not letting it get to 569 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,880 you is probably the best advice. Like it's like I said, it's just 570 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,640 one person's opinion. It doesn't mean they're right. 571 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,480 A lot of these people, it's not even about what you said or 572 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,280 content. It's just they just don't like 573 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:50,560 you. And no matter what you do or 574 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,720 however you change, like they're never gonna like you. 575 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,280 So it's just kind of accepting that you're not for everyone and 576 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,680 don't try to be and just yeah, block, delete. 577 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,840 The block button is my favorite. I'm like, you would die if you 578 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,680 saw my block list. Oh my God. 579 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,680 I never used to block people because I was like, all 580 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,320 engagements. Good. 581 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,040 And then it got to a point where I'm like, no, you can get 582 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,640 blocked if you're not appreciating the content. 583 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,360 Goodbye. I always get a little bit afraid 584 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,320 of blocking on YouTube specifically because then I'm 585 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,280 worried that it's going to like enrage them more and then 586 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:20,880 they'll come up with another account. 587 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,800 Yeah, the fensters. And then I just block that 588 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,760 account too. You have this unlock. 589 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,000 There's a good feature now, though, I think it blocks, it 590 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,920 says like block any future accounts. 591 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,600 That one really helpful for me, but they'll just make another 592 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:33,480 one. They'll find a way. 593 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,640 And that's what I mean, it's just like, it's not even about 594 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,200 what you've done. It's just they just don't like 595 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,600 you and they're just projecting. Have you always been someone who 596 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,280 is able to allow other people's opinions to kind of wash off 597 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,200 your back? Is that even the saying wash off 598 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,760 your back? Is duck water off the ducks? 599 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,240 Yes, water off the ducks. I was like, I don't know what it 600 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:53,600 is. Yeah, I have. 601 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,200 I think I've got pretty thick skin. 602 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,640 I don't think you could do my job if you didn't. 603 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,520 A lot of other people have tried and they're like, Oh my God, 604 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,520 like, I don't know how you've been doing this for so long. 605 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,160 And I'm like, thank you. It's harder than it looks. 606 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,040 I think I make it look pretty easy as well because I don't 607 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,440 really share, like the struggles that I'm going through. 608 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,920 I like to, like, maintain a bit of a tough exterior. 609 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,120 So yeah, I think I've definitely got a thick skin and I've been 610 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:19,040 through quite a lot in my life where nothing really phases me, 611 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,640 which is probably not a good thing. 612 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,080 Like my best friend's always, like I could tell her one thing 613 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,240 that I'm dealing with and she's like, Oh my God, I'm like 614 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,760 stressed for you. And I'm like, oh, babe, that's 615 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,160 not even like that's the least of my problems right now. 616 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,440 Like, so it is good. You do need to have a thick skin 617 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,920 in this industry. But you know, sometimes it does 618 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,760 get to you. Yeah, absolutely. 619 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,680 It's really tough. I feel like that's something 620 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,200 that was very new to me is coming into daily podcast and 621 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,240 putting my opinions out every single day about topics that are 622 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,840 involving other people usually, and sometimes controversial 623 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,400 takes or topics or whatever and getting that constant feedback. 624 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,960 But I'm getting much better at just like owning my opinion, 625 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,160 like being able to articulate my opinion well and being like, no, 626 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,240 I stand by that opinion. And of course, sometimes, like 627 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,000 you said, you make mistakes and you can recognize that, absorb 628 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,560 the feedback, apologize, whatever. 629 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,560 But it really is just like learning how to back yourself. 630 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,000 Yeah, and sometimes I've found like I've been so, so sure with 631 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,600 what I've said and what I've put out and confident with, like, 632 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,680 you know, I've backed myself with research and all of that. 633 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,080 I'll just double down and I'm like, no, like it's that's what 634 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:22,640 happened. Or that's the information that I 635 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:23,760 had. It's, it's correct. 636 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:26,880 And then I'll get like a lot of backlash and then like 6 months 637 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,200 later I'll be proven right and I'm always. 638 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,960 Like. I'll just, I got really trolled 639 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,000 last year for something and I kept being like, I've got 640 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,200 receipts to back all of this up. Like I'm happy to put them out. 641 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,800 And the trolling just kept going and kept going. 642 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,680 And the people that I was reporting on kept calling me a 643 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,640 liar. And it got to the point and I'd 644 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,560 never usually do this. It got to the point where I was 645 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,800 like, well, you know what? If you keep like, and it wasn't 646 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,760 just the fans, it was like the the people involved. 647 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,640 And so I was like, just to shut everyone up. 648 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,800 I dropped all of the messages. There's the receipts and 649 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,880 everyone was like going crazy for it. 650 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,520 But I would never usually do that. 651 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,520 I'm like, I know it's true. That's all that really matters. 652 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,720 Like my listeners know that, like they trust what I'm putting 653 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,120 out. But it got to the point where 654 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,800 I'm like, no, fuck you. I'm putting out the receipts, 655 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,520 dropped everything and everyone was like, because all the haters 656 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,400 were like, you're just making this up. 657 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,000 You're just jealous and all of this stuff. 658 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,520 So I like compiled all of the hate comments into like a 659 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,200 gallery with the receipts. And I was like, I'll be over 660 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,280 here waiting for my apology. Thank you very much. 661 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,400 That's amazing. Do you get people that apologize 662 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,280 to you? I actually that in that 663 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,120 instance, and I think because it was because I called them out 664 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,160 like I screenshot of old comments and they were like, so 665 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,400 sorry, like I, I was wrong with this. 666 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,360 You were right. And but even just like being 667 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,160 justified, like months later, if your news that you put out is 668 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,960 proven to be true, people do notice that they're like, oh, 669 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,240 well, Megan did say that and she got attacked for it. 670 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,040 And so over time that's happened a lot of like that's been 671 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,160 happening for the past six years, pretty much like every 672 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,920 week. And so I think that's what's 673 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,520 also like built my communities trust with me. 674 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,600 They know that like I'm putting out information that is 99% of 675 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,520 the time the truth. You can get like a dodgy sauce 676 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,440 here and there. But they've they've known that 677 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,880 like I can be trusted. My information is accurate. 678 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,360 So that's, it's kind of helped in the long run because they 679 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,000 know now that it can be trusted. But yeah, I love doing a little. 680 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,280 I told you so. Oh my God, has your fact 681 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,560 checking process changed over the years? 682 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,480 Yeah, so it's really hard this year is that's kind of why I 683 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,040 pulled back this year because last year I had, you know, I 684 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,080 would speak to contestants, production people, friends of 685 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,680 people and all of that. But so in my mind last year, 686 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,560 like with maths for an for an example, I got information from 687 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,400 one contestant who said this is what happened. 688 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:38,760 I spoke to four other contestants who said, Yep, 689 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,920 that's what happened and corroborated it. 690 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,360 And it came out later from like the person that I guess the news 691 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,080 was about, they were like, no, that's not true. 692 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,360 And they had receipts to back it up. 693 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,640 But what happened was these contestants were like in an 694 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,280 alliance pretty much. So they were backing each other 695 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,720 up. So it's like, in my mind, 696 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,480 speaking to four sources is pretty solid. 697 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,360 That's more than what you usually need to do. 698 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,440 And it was still, I'm like, I can't trust these people to give 699 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,640 me accurate information. So this year I've, I've actually 700 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,760 said I'm not speaking to any of the contestants because I can't 701 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,160 trust that they're a reliable source because they've all got 702 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,680 agendas and they all manipulate you. 703 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,720 So I pulled back on doing that and I found it a lot easier and 704 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,200 a lot less stressful because my platform is so big now that I've 705 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,080 got a bigger responsibility to make sure that the information 706 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,800 I'm putting out is accurate and truthful because it can harm 707 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,120 people when you've got such a big reach and such a big 708 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,320 influence in the space if you put out something that's 709 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,840 damaging to someone and it turns out not to be true. 710 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,600 Like I felt so bad about that, that I was like, oh, I can't 711 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,360 even take the risk this year. I don't trust these people, of 712 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,680 course. So, yeah, pull back on that, 713 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,000 which has been, it's been different, but it's it's 714 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,400 improved the pod in different ways. 715 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,480 Like I've been focusing on like more investigations and like 716 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,480 more, yeah, investigative journalism and just covering 717 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,280 different things that it's not like he said, she said. 718 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,840 And they said there's like the tit for tat kind of drama stuff 719 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,480 I've pulled back on, which I think people are missing. 720 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,440 But at the end of the day I'm like I'd rather be safe than 721 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,800 sorry. I'm really interested and you 722 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,840 don't actually, if you don't feel comfortable answering this, 723 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,200 that's fine. No, because you might not want 724 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,480 to give away your secrets when, OK, let's say like a math season 725 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,400 is announced. I'm just curious, what's your 726 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,120 process? So you know that's going to be 727 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,280 your busiest time. Do you immediately start like 728 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,120 researching the contestants? Do you ask your audience? 729 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,160 Does anybody have any tips on these people? 730 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,880 Like, how do you start the process of building out that 731 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,000 season? The past two years I've been 732 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,680 really late and slow with my prep. 733 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,560 I've last year I was in Bali. I wasn't sure if I was going to 734 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:36,920 come back because I was like having so much. 735 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,400 I was like, this life is so much better over here. 736 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,600 I don't know if like the part, it was just so stressful is 737 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,520 taking a toll of me. And I was in Bali and I met one 738 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,040 of the contestants there and then like, so I had a really 739 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,040 good inn with someone. Then they introduced me to other 740 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,800 contestants. I was like, OK, it's meant to 741 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,480 be, I'll do another season. And then those people ended up 742 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,880 not being the best sources. And then this year I was so busy 743 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,920 with kind regards that I probably didn't do the prep that 744 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,560 I needed to do. But ideally in previous years, I 745 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,840 would start like as soon as they're announced when they're 746 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,920 filming the weddings, which is usually like June the previous 747 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,160 year. So it's a long time before you 748 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,040 start like looking into them. You'll start getting tip offs 749 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,960 from people that know them. Like Oh my God, I know this 750 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:15,440 person on maths. I used to date them. 751 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,560 And so then you kind of keep your, you're like, OK, I'll 752 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,280 touch base with you when the show starts. 753 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,520 And so you just kind of, yeah, keep collecting information. 754 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,320 You'll have tip offs coming in. I usually do do a call out for 755 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,800 tip offs, but people will see even if I've done an episode on 756 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,080 someone, they'll be like, oh, I know this person like you like 757 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,960 here's more information or something like that. 758 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,600 So or even if you put an episode out where you do something and 759 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,560 you're like, yeah, I don't really know about that, but 760 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,920 we'll see all that someone might listen and they know more and 761 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,320 they send it in. So it's an ongoing process, but 762 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,760 yeah, we do like a big social media deep dive on everyone to 763 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,680 see if there's any skeletons on the line, look into their 764 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,760 backstories. I'll do like criminal checks on 765 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,800 everyone. Girl, that's crazy. 766 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,680 Yeah, we I go like deep. We do like. 767 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,640 You're probably doing more than the network. 768 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,480 Oh definitely, definitely. I don't think I can't decide if 769 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,120 they do do background checks and they. 770 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,040 Don't care or something. Either they don't do them at all 771 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,280 because the stuff that I've found, I'm like this wasn't even 772 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,000 looking hard, like this was just on their YouTube, or this was 773 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,880 just on a basic background criminal check. 774 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,360 So I don't know if they do them and they ignore them or they 775 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,440 don't care or they see that someone has a sketchy past and 776 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,440 they're like, great, you're on because they kind of want those 777 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,679 skeletons to come out because it's all engagement for them. 778 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,639 So yeah, I can't decide if like, they just ignore them or don't 779 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:32,679 care or they don't even do them. Yeah. 780 00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:36,239 I feel like I was going to say maybe there's a line, there's 781 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,239 some type of line where they're like, OK, we would say no if we 782 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:40,480 found this. No. 783 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,880 But then I was going to say, actually, I feel like the things 784 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,719 you have found, there's no way, no. 785 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,960 They have like full like people that have had like domestic 786 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,679 violence charges, fraud charges, assault charges, all of this 787 00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:55,480 stuff like easily found if you just do a quick criminal check, 788 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,440 public records, they they still put them on. 789 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,320 Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, what is like, is 790 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,440 it murder? Is it? 791 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:02,720 Like what is the thing? Where's the? 792 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:03,280 Line. Yeah. 793 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,000 Where's the line? I don't think there is one to be 794 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,400 honest. Wow. 795 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,640 OK, so it's a full process for you I. 796 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:09,480 Love this. Yeah. 797 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,960 And just yeah, the, the social media search, even you can find 798 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,760 some really interesting things. Yeah, This year, even my tip 799 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,040 offline because I was like, OK, I'm not speaking to the 800 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,480 contestants. So I don't know if I'm going to 801 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,080 have enough content like that's going to take out a big chunk of 802 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,520 like information for me. But I found with my tip offline, 803 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,960 I was like, God, there's enough in here for me to go all season. 804 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,120 Like I've there's so much in here. 805 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,920 People send me in the craziest stuff. 806 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,080 I'm like, how did you guys? And because the audience is so 807 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,120 big now and everyone knows about it, if even if they know 808 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,960 something, they're like, Oh, we have to send it to so dramatic. 809 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,880 And so that big audience, like the tip offs are crazy things 810 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,680 that people find. And then I just kind of compile 811 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,760 it together or sometimes I'll have we had a recent one where 812 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,640 there was like 10 people that sent in the same thing. 813 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,240 Like it was a girl on maths had crazy story, 12 different name 814 00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:54,840 changes. Like she changed her name 12 815 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:55,800 times. Oh my God. 816 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,760 And so people were sending in different parts are like, no, 817 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,400 her name is Cassie. And then someone else is like, 818 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,240 no, it's, it's something else. And I'm like, OK, so there's it 819 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,320 wasn't just one. So then you kind of you get all 820 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,200 these leads and then you you can piece it all together and it's 821 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,200 it. That's why I mean, it's a group 822 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:11,240 project. It's like you get to play Nancy 823 00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:12,400 Drew. All the time. 824 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,600 And that's what I think I'm going to start leaning into more 825 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,480 like the investigative side so I don't have to like deal with 826 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,560 these people. That sounds rude, but I don't 827 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,320 have to deal with them. Like they just, they're hard to 828 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,680 manage and then if you put something out they're not happy 829 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,200 with, it's just I've just cut out the noise of like, I don't 830 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,880 even have to talk to them. I just can focus in on my 831 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,840 investigations. And yeah, like I said, I've got 832 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,880 enough tip offs, plenty of content to keep going with. 833 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,720 Do people try and pay you off? No, I wish. 834 00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:40,400 I was going to say, would you take the money? 835 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,720 I've seen people commenting. Last year I was doing a lot of 836 00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:47,800 stories, one of Jackie from Maths, Crazy, crazy Jackie. 837 00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:50,480 I'm not calling her crazy. Everyone else did. 838 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,360 She was like giving me information. 839 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,640 She was going rogues. We did a lot of episodes on her 840 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,680 because there was the content there, like she was posting 841 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,600 stuff so we would cover it. And people like you're favoring 842 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,600 her. She's paid you off to report 843 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,480 positively on her. I'm like, no one is paying me. 844 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,520 I wish if anyone wants to pay me, I'm I'm I'm open, I'm 845 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:09,840 available. I'll take your money. 846 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,920 No, no one's paid me off. When you have sources though, 847 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,800 there is, I think, an expectation of like if you have 848 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,160 a source from the start that is giving you information and not 849 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,600 just positive information about themselves, like about everyone. 850 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,680 Like I had sources last year. I'm like, hey, what happens at 851 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,200 the upcoming dinner party? Or do you know about this? 852 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:29,880 They're helping you out. So you kind of need to help 853 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,480 them. And if you go and do like a 854 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,800 story on them, like this person did whatever, they're obviously 855 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,320 not going to like you and they're going to stop giving you 856 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,400 information. So you have to kind of play. 857 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,360 It's a hard juggle. So I found it easy this year 858 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,240 because I'm like, OK, I don't know. 859 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:46,800 I don't know anyone any favors. I don't have to like walk on egg 860 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,800 shells with anyone. I can just report on everyone. 861 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,720 Do contestants reach out to you in advance now? 862 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:54,560 And they're like, hey, like, let's be buddy, buddy. 863 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,320 Yeah, yeah. They'll reach out to me or I'll 864 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,560 know someone on a previous season that knows them, or a 865 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,040 listener might know someone and they'll put me in touch. 866 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,600 So yeah, they do reach out. Before I had to kind of reach 867 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,880 out to them or I'd send everyone like a message at the start 868 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,680 saying, hey, here's my number. If you need anything like let me 869 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,960 know, but I'm not really like chasing after them anymore. 870 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,520 I'm like it's a good place to be. 871 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:17,800 Please don't. Please don't ask me for help. 872 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,680 OK. So the final question that we 873 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,160 also ask everyone on this podcast and the final time that 874 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,680 we're going to ask it, because this is the final episode, is 875 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,080 can you tell us how you touch grass? 876 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,520 I don't. I knew you were going to say 877 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,520 that. Not enough anyway. 878 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,680 No, I would say my touching grass would be going to the 879 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,520 beach, which I've tried to do this year more because I live 880 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,760 literally across the road from the beach and my sister lives 881 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,080 across the road as well so there's no excuse. 882 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,040 Last year I didn't go to the beach once, which is crazy. 883 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,000 This year I've been trying to go to the beach because I just feel 884 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,640 like getting in the sun, getting in the water. 885 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,120 It's just you feel so much better instantly. 886 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,080 Yeah, and just like being amongst other people that, like, 887 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,720 don't know who you are and have no idea, like what's going on in 888 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:09,120 your DMS can be so nice. You know what's great as well? 889 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,080 I've got 2 nephews that are three and one and they are the 890 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,520 best touching grass available because as soon as you're with 891 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,840 kids, it's just like you just forget about all of the adult 892 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,560 stresses that you have and they just instantly make you happy. 893 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,160 Like doing the menial things that you're like, Oh my God, 894 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,360 this is the biggest drama for them and you can get really 895 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:28,760 involved. It just takes your mind off it. 896 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,440 It's it's a good distraction because you know, you're like 897 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,880 you have to look after them or whatever. 898 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:33,840 You're watching a movie with them. 899 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,240 It's a good way to switch off because you have you have no 900 00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:37,760 choice to be really present with them. 901 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,000 So I found that it's really good as well. 902 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:41,960 I'm always saying to my sister, thank God you had kids. 903 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,640 I don't have my own so I can borrow yours when I need to de 904 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,320 stress. Yeah, it helps you regain that 905 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,200 perspective. Well, thanks so much, Megan. 906 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:53,920 Thanks for having me, this is really fun. 907 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,120 Yes. Centennial World Podcast Network 908 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,960 operates on Gadigal land. We would like to acknowledge the 909 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,200 Gadigal of the Eora Nation, the traditional custodians of this 910 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,760 land, and pay our respects to elders both past and present.