Welcome to Touchgrass, a miniseries where I chat with
creatives about staying sane while being chronically online.
I'm your host, Lauren Meisner, and Touchgrass is a miniseries
brought to you by Britta, where we explore the implications of
being chronically online with creatives who can't escape it.
One thing that keeps coming up in these conversations is how
important small grounding routines are offline.
And for me, one of those routines is drinking enough
water. Whether I'm refilling my water
bottle before a long walk or taking a break from scrolling my
For You page, Britta makes it easy for me to stay hydrated and
grounded with pure, fresh tasting filtered water straight
from any tap. Thank you to Britta for
supporting independent media and helping us take better care of
ourselves, one refill at a time. Today I'm chatting with Megan
Pastetto, the host of Australia's biggest reality TV
podcast, So Dramatic, and the founder of a new podcast
network. Kind Regards.
During this chat, Megan and I discuss her rapid rise to
success in the podcasting industry, the hard parts of
building a new business, the toll that Internet trolls have
had on her mental health, and how her audience keeps her
going. Welcome Megan to Touch Grass.
Hi, thanks for having me. OK, so you are our finale
episode and unfortunately we did have to record this inside.
We cannot be touching grass today 'cause it is raining this
afternoon. But we got 9 out of No 7 out of
eight. I was like, how many episodes of
this have we done? 7 out of eight episodes outside?
So I feel like that's a win. But welcome to our cute little
studio. We did deck out with some plants
and stuff like that for the vibe.
Touch the plant. Yeah, we're touching and I
actually really need to touch some girls, so it's a shame.
Yeah, literally. Well, that's what you're here to
do today is talk about all of this.
Let it all out. So we start by asking everyone,
do you consider yourself chronically online?
I think I've even more than chronically online.
I live online and I'm and I'm not actually like one of those
people that enjoys being online. I just have to for work.
So I find it really challenging to constantly be online.
As you would know, it's super draining and it really sucks the
life out of you, especially now with everything going on.
It's like you're on the feed and you just feel depressed and
there's so much going on and drama.
It's just it can get a lot. Yeah, it's a lot.
I completely get it. So, okay, so tell us why you
have to be chronically online for work.
Give us a bit of a breakdown into who you are and your career
trajectory. So I host the So Dramatic
podcast, which is what started my business now and it's
covering reality TV gossip. So that involves me being online
a lot, checking what people are posting, finding out what's
going on and tip offs constant, which is probably why I'm online
a lot. Like my inbox is just I have to
constantly be checking it to see what's coming in to get all of
the tea out straight away. But yeah, so I do that podcast
and then we've launched a few other spin off shows from that.
And recently last year actually I launched a podcast network
called Kind Regards. So now we have multiple podcasts
on the network. So that involves being online to
post things for all of the pods, posting stuff on my page,
posting stuff on my personal page.
I'm literally like the amount of accounts that I've got on my
Meta thing. I think I've reached the maximum
now. It's it's crazy.
I feel like I'm always just on Instagram and Facebook.
It's it's a lot, yeah. So how many pieces of content do
you think you do every single week?
We used to do a lot more. I had a social media girl that
was just her job was just to post on socials and we would we
could do like 20 posts a day just on the so dramatic account.
Sometimes more. I think during like a busy
season with married at first sight, possibly more.
That's insane. Yes.
Now we've cut down. We stopped doing like the news
updates. We were doing like a lot of like
that and I just got so much I was finding just really
overwhelmed by the comments because even that is moderating
the comments is like a full time job seeing what people are
commenting. And I was like, I need to switch
some of this noise off because it was just so overwhelming.
So we actually cut back and now we're just doing like snippets
from the pod or teasers or promos for the episodes, videos
from episodes and stuff like that.
So at the moment, I'd say probably like 3 posts a day,
which is that's still a lot, still a lot.
But from doing 20 and it's just, I found it's been a lot more
easy because it's just the comments like it gets a bit
overwhelming. People are attacking you.
And yeah, it's a lot. The notifications like Ding Ding
Ding. Yeah.
No, you have a tough job like the industry specifically that
you report on. It's so volatile because it's
got so many big personalities. And obviously you're staying
quite local with what you cover, at least you used to.
And I imagine that's really tough reporting on mostly like
the local scene. Can you tell me why you think so
dramatic was so successful so quickly?
Yeah, it really did blow up overnight.
By my second episode, I had Abby Chatfield on and she just come
off Bachelor in Paradise. It was a first interview and it
was a really great interview. And it was my second episode.
And I hadn't come from like speaking on camera and doing
anything like I was a writer. So I was like, Oh my God, it
blew up. And I was like, what have I
done? Like it was meant to just be
like a hobby project during COVID just to keep me busy.
And it blew up literally overnight.
And I was like, oh God, this is like a lot.
And just again, all the comments and the feedback, I wasn't used
to like all of that. And it was just quite
overwhelming. And then by episode 7, we did
like this massive episode with two girls that came off
Bachelor. They didn't do a reunion that
year because of COVID. So I kind of had them on to do a
reunion and it was a really explosive episode and it went
viral. Like I think I had like over
100,000 downloads like in the in the first day.
Like it was just wow. It went viral.
Like every news outlet picked it up.
So and then it just kept growing from that, like just each
episode finding new like audience and stuff.
But I think because the content is quite like it's water cooler
content, people are watching these shows, they'll it's
topical, it's happening right now.
They want like the freshest like updates and stuff.
And if you get like a really good interview, it's like we
wanted we have to listen to it because we're watching and all
of that. So I was really lucky with the
content. And then I think the timing as
well, it was during COVID and a lot of people just didn't have
anything to do. It was really good escapism.
It was something to preoccupy them with, like something to
take their minds off what was going on.
And they obviously had a lot of time as well to be like involved
in it, consumed by it. And yeah, it kind of just
snowballed from there. And I think I think the content
is probably, but a mix of the timing.
I had really good connections with the cars.
Like I just got really lucky on a number of fronts.
But in saying that, like, I did work really hard as well, like
working around the clock, and it became like my only thing that I
was doing during COVID, probably not healthy, but paid off.
Yeah. So yeah, I think it was a
combination of things. But I think if I was to do it
like launch it today, I don't think it would be as successful.
It was just, yeah, a really perfect storm of everything.
Yeah, I also think I could be wrong, but I also feel like you
were maybe the first reality TV podcast in Australia.
Yeah, and no one still. I mean, there has been sort of
copycat podcasts that have popped up, which I find
flattering, but it's it's easy when you're the first, you know,
it's like kind of like call her Daddy.
It's like no one was doing that. So they're always going to be
like the OG in the first ones. So yeah, that was great.
But even now it's like people still aren't really doing what
I'm doing. They'll do like a recap or
interviews. But me getting like this
exclusive T, which was our point of difference, it was like we're
breaking exclusives. We're not like regurgitating
stuff that's out there. It was all original content.
So I think that also helped set us apart because it was stuff
that they couldn't get elsewhere.
So like, even if people hate listening to me, they're like,
but we love the tea. We need to listen to know what's
going on, you know what I mean? Whereas other podcasts, it's
like they're listening because they like the host or they they
like the content. But with this one, it's like we
have to listen, you know? You're forcing, sorry.
I know literally I have people that are like, oh, I can't stand
you, but I don't want, I want to know what's going on.
Maths, you know, or they like the people that I've interviewed
and so I think that was good as well.
And I've kind of stuck to that. We tried to do like a spin off
where it was regurgitating other news and I just found like it
wasn't a successful because it's like, well, you can go and read
that elsewhere. You have to kind of keep your
point of difference and give them something that they can't
get anywhere else. Yeah, you do such an amazing
blend of I suppose like more traditional journalism with new
media. So can you tell me a little bit
about your background in media pre so dramatic I.
Started off as a fashion writer, working for like online fashion
places and going to Fashion Week and I was more like in the
lifestyle space, which I kind of wish that I'd stuck to.
It's a lot less stressful than what I'm doing now.
And then after that, I was looking for like a stable full
time job. And the Daily Mail had just
launched in Australia. So I started working for them
and got a job as an entertainment reporter.
I was there for a few years. It was such a good starting
point in terms of like getting that newsroom experience.
Like I don't want to say like I learned journalism there because
I feel like it's quite a it's yeah, yeah, learn quite bad
habits. But it was just good to get that
like experience in The Newsroom. It was quite brutal.
It was fast-paced. So I feel like that really set
me up. And then after that I went into
digital content producing at magazines, worked, worked doing
that for a little bit. I was even on the Kyle and
Jackie O Show doing digital producing like social media.
I did PR for a little bit. Actually that was before, that
was before entertainment journalism.
I did PR. So I've done radio magazines
online. Then I went into magazines doing
entertainment reporting. So I kind of went backwards.
Most people start doing like print and then they go into
digital. I went the opposite.
And at the time I was like, oh, I haven't stuck to like one
thing like this is really bad. I've done like everything and
whenever I would go for jobs, I felt like my skills were too
diverse, like of too many things that it was kind of hard to me
for me to even be like, what do I want to do?
Like which skills do I enjoy the most?
And then now in hindsight, I'm like everything that I did, all
of those different jobs and career paths, everything that I
learned in all of those jobs has set me up to do what I'm doing
now. It was like, in hindsight, it
was giving me the skills that I needed to do this, like setting
me up for like what I was eventually meant to do, I guess.
So I'm really lucky that I tried heaps of things because I think
a lot of people can pigeonhole themselves as well.
So yeah. And then I went into Maggie's.
I was working in magazines, left there because I was like, it's a
bit of a crazy story, but magazines used to be so have so
much money in buying stories from people.
So they would buy like paparazzi photos.
They would buy stories of people, and I was seeing how
much we were buying these stories for, and I was getting
these stories for them for free on a salary.
And I'm like, Oh my God, I could be making so much more money
freelancing and selling these stories.
So that's what I did. I went freelance and I was
working with like, paparazzi to set up photos with talent.
So if there was like a reality star, I'd say, you know, you're
on the show, like, let's get some photos of you.
We'll pay you. You won't have to deal with the
paparazzi because I was like the middleman doing that.
There's a lot of paparazzis. People don't want to deal with
them because they're crazy. And so I would like make the
whole process easy for them, make it easy for the paparazzi.
And we were making like such good money.
Then I was like selling stories to like different outlets like
writing and things like that. And then we were, we were doing
so well. And then COVID happened and it
all dried up because no one could leave the house.
And then outlets didn't really have budgets for freelancers.
And then I was like, what am I going to do?
I was on Job Seeker. Oh my God, just start the
podcast. I put all this content that I
was selling on the pod because I kind of already had it in
advance ready to go. But there's no point wasting it.
I'll do a pod. I've always wanted to try
podcasting, and that's how it started.
That's amazing. Six years later, I'm stuck with
it. Stuck with it.
Still here? So you are, as you mentioned,
the founder of Kind Regards Network.
Can you tell me about the difference between being a very
successful solo podcaster to now having a network?
What is that done for? I suppose both your career but
also your mental health. Mental health has been
destroyed. OK, girl, yes, as you would
know, just I think having I think if I was doing just one,
like the network, also dramatic, it would be fine.
But doing both has been a lot. I think I've definitely taken on
more than I can handle and I've spread myself super thin.
So I've been trying to pull back a bit recently as well, but it's
been really good. I feel like it's really
challenged me in different ways to so dramatic 'cause there's
only so much you can do with your show because you're kind of
limited to like what the content is and what the audience wants.
And I found like I could flex my creative side more with the
network, like coming up with ideas for new shows, doing the
branding, the ideation, the content.
I've loved all of that, like the creative process behind it.
I, I found that I've loved doing that the most and I found it
really invigorating because it's, it's something different,
a different muscle that you're flexing.
So I found it really good because when you've been doing
the same show for so long, you can get like a bit where you're
just kind of going through the motions.
It gets a bit repetitive. And I'm one of those people that
like, I would leave a job in six months or a year if I didn't
feel like I was being challenged or I'd learn everything that I
could. I get bored quite easily.
So it was a good change up. I wish I just could clone myself
and do both because I enjoy both so much.
But it's been really good. It's been really challenging and
exciting and rewarding. We've launched like really cool
shows and it's been cool to like work with different people and
do different things that I wasn't able to do with so
dramatic. Do you have a long term vision
for kind regards or are you just like seeing where it goes for
now? We probably launched being a
little bit, I wouldn't say ambitious, but we like, I've
learnt a lot as well in a short amount of time.
It's just really hard, I think in this day and age to start a
podcast and make it go viral. And I think I was used to so
dramatic, just popping off overnight that I was like, OK,
wow. Like I didn't, I don't want to
say lucky. I hate saying lucky because I
have worked super hard on it, but it's so much harder now
because there's so much content out there.
There's so many podcasts. It's such a competitive space
now that it's not as easy as just starting or having good
content or even having someone super famous or well known that
has a huge following online. It doesn't always translate into
lessons. Like some people, they're like
their followers are following them because they like them on
Instagram. It doesn't mean that they're
going to go and listen to them for an hour.
And we've actually found that some of the shows that had hosts
that weren't influences or didn't have a following have
done better in some degrees. And that's just because they've
really focused on building their community or they've hit like a
niche market or. Yeah, just maybe afraid to share
their opinions and things. Like that or they're promoting
it. Well, yeah, I've just I've.
That's a that's been a real surprise to me and something
really like a good lesson. I'm like communities, everything
in this space. Like it's not just about having,
you know, like followers on Instagram, It's it's about like
really fostering that community. And I think that's also why so
dramatic has grown to the level that it has because of that
community. I've got the feed, constant
feedback with my audience. I'm quite involved in our
community, constantly speaking to them.
I've constantly got people sending me in tip offs that get
included on the podcast. So I think they love that
feedback of like, oh, my information is on the pod.
I always say the podcast is a group effort and I think that
community, it really is though at the start I was having to
find all of the content through my sources.
And now it's got to the point where I can just open up my tip
folder and I'm like, there's so much in here.
So good. So they're kind of doing my job
for me, which I'm so grateful for.
Although just even send me stuff or give me feedback.
So I think that is really what's also helped contribute to the
success. And I always say that to
creators that are starting podcast now.
I'm like, it's all about the community.
You want your listeners to feel like they're an active part of
the podcast because people are choosing to listen to you and
you're in their ears, like on their commute or, you know,
doing stuff at home and walking. And it's it's more intimate
than, you know, TV and radio. So I think just having that
level of relationship with your audience is really important.
Totally. Like they're investing in you,
like you're investing in them, but they're investing in you as
well, 100%. Can you tell me about some of
the hard parts of having such a big and very engaged audience?
Where do I start? I would say the trolling I have
struggled with and I don't want to be like poor me, but I find
that I get a lot of criticism that is unwarranted.
And I don't want to say like I'm perfect.
I've obviously made mistakes. But I feel like I have male
colleagues that are doing the same thing in the same space.
And I'll find that that they, they can go on their podcast and
say something really misogynistic, really
problematic, slut shaming. And like no one will say
anything. I'm like checking the comments
for like one person to pick it up.
And I'm like, what the hell, hello.
And then I go on my page and I will get criticism for things
that I've haven't done at all. Like I get accused of doing
things I haven't done or just like criticism over the smallest
things that will turn into like a bit of not a pile.
I don't want to say a pile and I don't really like that word, but
it will turn into a bit of like unwarranted criticism and
backlash that it's like it's not justified or comparative, I
guess, to what other people are getting.
So I feel like because you're a woman in the space doing it, and
especially because I'm quite outspoken and I don't hold back
and I I don't care about calling people out.
Like, I'm not afraid to, you know, say, say how I feel it
robs people up the wrong way because I think they're not used
to, like, women being confident and outspoken that they just
kind of want to hate on you. And I find as well, the most
shocking thing to me was that it's not from men.
It's from other women, really. Yeah.
Like the just the internalized misogyny.
I think I've really struggled with that because I'm just like,
this is fair. Come on, guys, if you're going
to criticize me, like criticize them too.
So that's been really hard, just the backlash as well.
And because it's quite explosive, scandalous.
It's like quite shocking at times that you kind of get
dragged in by association. They're like, well, you said
this or like you posted that and it's it's a lot harder than just
doing like beauty or lifestyle. Recaps even, right?
It's hard. It's harder than doing, just
like you said even. Recaps.
Yeah. Or like you have an opinion that
someone doesn't agree with and they really want to tell you
that and it's. It can get a lot sometimes.
I've found the bigger that the audience has grown and the show
has grown, that even just the noise that's out there, like the
comments, like I was saying before, just trying to block out
that noise. So you're like, wait, how do I
actually feel about this? And you've got like all these
outside influences that are like, oh, you shouldn't have
done this or you should say this or you missed that or blah,
blah, blah. I don't like the direction
you're going in. And sometimes you just need to
block it out. Yeah, cuz it's like feedback is
great, but sometimes you're never gonna make everyone happy.
So you start taking on everyone's feedback.
You're just gonna become paralyzed.
Like, I can't do anything. Yeah, I.
Got some advice, I don't know, maybe like 2 years ago, I would
say when we started doing the daily podcast.
I do get a lot of like suggestions and feedback and
requests. And I got some advice back then
where somebody said like you can listen to the feedback, but you
don't need to take it on board and it, but it's very hard to
find the line because like you said, then you start to get in
your head where you're like, well, I don't want to, you know,
upset my audience who comes every single day.
I want to give them what they want.
You know, that's important to me that we're providing something
that they're interested in and all of this stuff.
It gets very confusing all of the noise.
And everyone has an opinion, but it doesn't mean they're
necessarily right. And I've gone to the point now
where I'm like, OK, I'll take it on board.
But also, like, even just friends that are like, oh, I
think you should be doing more of this.
I like, I know my show with my audience more than anyone.
Like, I know what works. Yeah, you sometimes you just
need to listen to yourself and you know what's right.
And I've been doing it for six years now.
It's like I kind of have a good gauge on, like, what works and
what doesn't. But it can be hard to just block
out the noise because you've got so many people wanting to give
their opinion and. I think that's kind of a bit of
a challenge. And it's hard being a solo
founder. That's what I found going from
being in a Co founder relationship and feeling so much
more sure of my decisions and where the business was going.
I think because I had someone else who was like, at my level
making, yeah, like making decisions with me and then now
being so low. And I'm, you know, I have that
contrast to look at, but you've always been so low.
It's so much more challenging now solo.
I really didn't expect that. And yeah, same thing.
Like I'll have friends now when I'm talking to them about the
business things that I would have talked to my Co founder
about before. And I'm just, you know, venting
to them or whatever. And they're like, oh, you should
do this or that. Like one of my best friends said
to me very recently, like just a few months ago, she was like, I
would never listen to like a 20 minute podcast.
Like your podcast episode should be an hour long.
I was like, well, I do them Monday to Friday and people
listen to them while they're like commuting.
And like you said, like I know my audience, like I've, I've put
out this product and it is successful.
Like I know that I don't need that feedback.
And you also need to put out content that you enjoy.
Like I found when I was trying to please everyone else, I just
wasn't into the content. And it just, it really reflected
like it showed. And I'm like, I need to speak
about things that I'm passionate about or cover things that I
want to speak about because I'll do a better job of it.
But yeah, it can be hard to block out all of those opinions.
And you do want opinions and you want to bounce off people, but
at the same time, you kind of just need to like, listen to
your gut. So you have been pretty open
here and there about how you've considered walking away from so
dramatic in the past. Can you tell me a little bit
about? That I don't know I mean, I have
considered walking away many times, but I don't think I was
ever like meaning it because, and I always say this to my
audience. I'm like, was it for you guys?
I would have walked away, but my audience keeps me going.
Like I love them so much. They I know how much it means to
them. I know that it's like an
escapism for them. Some of them have been listening
to me for six years now that I don't know, like even covering
maths this year, which is our biggest show, I've pulled back a
lot. Like last year I was doing 14
episodes a week. Girl.
Yeah, so I. You would record them twice a
day basically. And two or three times a day and
some of them are like an hour long.
They weren't like 5 minute ones. Some of, because some of my
competitors do like 2 minute episodes and mine are always at
least like 20 minutes. And they're like, you didn't get
this out first And I'm like yeah, well mine is like
researched. Well, I'm like putting effort
into it. I'm like making it entertaining
for you. So yeah, 14 episodes because
we've got our subscriber channel as well, right This year.
I had a bit of a breakdown last year just with opening the
second business and usually maths like 3 or 4 months.
I go hard because you get the payoff and there's people
listening. If you do the same amount of
work during another show, the audience isn't there so you you
won't get the the payoff. So I usually didn't mind.
And then after maths I would just fully burn out and crash.
And I did that last year, ended up in hospital.
And when I was in hospital, we were launching the second
business and we'd already like started.
So first my the first, I was in the hospital for two weeks.
The first day I was in hospital, my team had just started for the
new business. So I couldn't even really back
out of it if I wanted to because it was it was all motions go
we'd already like so far deep in already.
So I had a bit of a breakdown last year because I was just
overwhelmed. And then the trolling took a bit
of a toll as well. I think if you're not in a good
headspace or you're already like burnt out, that usually I'm
pretty good with trolling and I don't want to say good with
trolling, but I didn't even read the comments.
I'm like, oh, whatever, someone else is attacking me.
But when you're like already at that point where you're not
coping, that can just add an extra like you cannot deal with
it as as well. So like that happened last year.
But my audience, I just feel like, so I don't want to like
lose them. And I'm like, we've built this
amazing community. So this year I pulled back a
little bit where I'm doing just one episode a day pretty much.
And it's been a bit, it's been better.
It's still a lot, though. Still a lot.
That's a huge workload. Do you do all your own editing?
So I do everything myself. I've never had a producer.
So I'm doing all of the content myself, researching, scripting,
hosting, producing. And then I've got someone who
edits my audio, but I'll still do another edit after them.
Like I'm a bit of a control freak.
So it's it's very hands on. And then you've got socials to
do, you've got team A-Team to manage, you've got meetings and
all of the business side. It's it's a lot.
It's a lot. I don't know how you are doing
that much content, everything. Yeah, I'm not really.
Not really. No, you're not coping.
OK, well let's talk about how you do cope then.
So when you are feeling under attack from trolls or you're
dealing with something really heavy in the business, how do
you personally cope with it? Oh, that's a hard question.
I don't know. Like, is there an answer for
that? I don't know.
If someone knows let me know because I don't know.
You just have to get through it. I'm pretty.
Like, I'm usually pretty good because people like, how do you
deal with all of this bullshit, like all of these attacks and
like just all the comments and haters and stuff.
I was pretty good at blocking it out.
And I kind of used to laugh. There's a stage where I found it
really funny. I was like, Oh my God, these
comments are crazy. But like I said before, if
you're not in a good headspace, it really can trigger you.
I don't know, I try to switch off if I ever get to that point.
Like a couple of weeks ago, I had a bit of a breakdown and I
just, I just turned off like 2 days.
I just switched my phone off when I got a massage, went to
the sauna. Yeah.
Just all of that health stuff, which I probably should do more
regularly to prevent the burnout.
But I don't know, I think just if you can, if you're in the
right head space, like laughing at it is the best approach.
I'm always like, if you don't laugh, you'll cry.
But I don't think there is really a right way to deal with
it. I think not letting it get to
you is probably the best advice. Like it's like I said, it's just
one person's opinion. It doesn't mean they're right.
A lot of these people, it's not even about what you said or
content. It's just they just don't like
you. And no matter what you do or
however you change, like they're never gonna like you.
So it's just kind of accepting that you're not for everyone and
don't try to be and just yeah, block, delete.
The block button is my favorite. I'm like, you would die if you
saw my block list. Oh my God.
I never used to block people because I was like, all
engagements. Good.
And then it got to a point where I'm like, no, you can get
blocked if you're not appreciating the content.
Goodbye. I always get a little bit afraid
of blocking on YouTube specifically because then I'm
worried that it's going to like enrage them more and then
they'll come up with another account.
Yeah, the fensters. And then I just block that
account too. You have this unlock.
There's a good feature now, though, I think it blocks, it
says like block any future accounts.
That one really helpful for me, but they'll just make another
one. They'll find a way.
And that's what I mean, it's just like, it's not even about
what you've done. It's just they just don't like
you and they're just projecting. Have you always been someone who
is able to allow other people's opinions to kind of wash off
your back? Is that even the saying wash off
your back? Is duck water off the ducks?
Yes, water off the ducks. I was like, I don't know what it
is. Yeah, I have.
I think I've got pretty thick skin.
I don't think you could do my job if you didn't.
A lot of other people have tried and they're like, Oh my God,
like, I don't know how you've been doing this for so long.
And I'm like, thank you. It's harder than it looks.
I think I make it look pretty easy as well because I don't
really share, like the struggles that I'm going through.
I like to, like, maintain a bit of a tough exterior.
So yeah, I think I've definitely got a thick skin and I've been
through quite a lot in my life where nothing really phases me,
which is probably not a good thing.
Like my best friend's always, like I could tell her one thing
that I'm dealing with and she's like, Oh my God, I'm like
stressed for you. And I'm like, oh, babe, that's
not even like that's the least of my problems right now.
Like, so it is good. You do need to have a thick skin
in this industry. But you know, sometimes it does
get to you. Yeah, absolutely.
It's really tough. I feel like that's something
that was very new to me is coming into daily podcast and
putting my opinions out every single day about topics that are
involving other people usually, and sometimes controversial
takes or topics or whatever and getting that constant feedback.
But I'm getting much better at just like owning my opinion,
like being able to articulate my opinion well and being like, no,
I stand by that opinion. And of course, sometimes, like
you said, you make mistakes and you can recognize that, absorb
the feedback, apologize, whatever.
But it really is just like learning how to back yourself.
Yeah, and sometimes I've found like I've been so, so sure with
what I've said and what I've put out and confident with, like,
you know, I've backed myself with research and all of that.
I'll just double down and I'm like, no, like it's that's what
happened. Or that's the information that I
had. It's, it's correct.
And then I'll get like a lot of backlash and then like 6 months
later I'll be proven right and I'm always.
Like. I'll just, I got really trolled
last year for something and I kept being like, I've got
receipts to back all of this up. Like I'm happy to put them out.
And the trolling just kept going and kept going.
And the people that I was reporting on kept calling me a
liar. And it got to the point and I'd
never usually do this. It got to the point where I was
like, well, you know what? If you keep like, and it wasn't
just the fans, it was like the the people involved.
And so I was like, just to shut everyone up.
I dropped all of the messages. There's the receipts and
everyone was like going crazy for it.
But I would never usually do that.
I'm like, I know it's true. That's all that really matters.
Like my listeners know that, like they trust what I'm putting
out. But it got to the point where
I'm like, no, fuck you. I'm putting out the receipts,
dropped everything and everyone was like, because all the haters
were like, you're just making this up.
You're just jealous and all of this stuff.
So I like compiled all of the hate comments into like a
gallery with the receipts. And I was like, I'll be over
here waiting for my apology. Thank you very much.
That's amazing. Do you get people that apologize
to you? I actually that in that
instance, and I think because it was because I called them out
like I screenshot of old comments and they were like, so
sorry, like I, I was wrong with this.
You were right. And but even just like being
justified, like months later, if your news that you put out is
proven to be true, people do notice that they're like, oh,
well, Megan did say that and she got attacked for it.
And so over time that's happened a lot of like that's been
happening for the past six years, pretty much like every
week. And so I think that's what's
also like built my communities trust with me.
They know that like I'm putting out information that is 99% of
the time the truth. You can get like a dodgy sauce
here and there. But they've they've known that
like I can be trusted. My information is accurate.
So that's, it's kind of helped in the long run because they
know now that it can be trusted. But yeah, I love doing a little.
I told you so. Oh my God, has your fact
checking process changed over the years?
Yeah, so it's really hard this year is that's kind of why I
pulled back this year because last year I had, you know, I
would speak to contestants, production people, friends of
people and all of that. But so in my mind last year,
like with maths for an for an example, I got information from
one contestant who said this is what happened.
I spoke to four other contestants who said, Yep,
that's what happened and corroborated it.
And it came out later from like the person that I guess the news
was about, they were like, no, that's not true.
And they had receipts to back it up.
But what happened was these contestants were like in an
alliance pretty much. So they were backing each other
up. So it's like, in my mind,
speaking to four sources is pretty solid.
That's more than what you usually need to do.
And it was still, I'm like, I can't trust these people to give
me accurate information. So this year I've, I've actually
said I'm not speaking to any of the contestants because I can't
trust that they're a reliable source because they've all got
agendas and they all manipulate you.
So I pulled back on doing that and I found it a lot easier and
a lot less stressful because my platform is so big now that I've
got a bigger responsibility to make sure that the information
I'm putting out is accurate and truthful because it can harm
people when you've got such a big reach and such a big
influence in the space if you put out something that's
damaging to someone and it turns out not to be true.
Like I felt so bad about that, that I was like, oh, I can't
even take the risk this year. I don't trust these people, of
course. So, yeah, pull back on that,
which has been, it's been different, but it's it's
improved the pod in different ways.
Like I've been focusing on like more investigations and like
more, yeah, investigative journalism and just covering
different things that it's not like he said, she said.
And they said there's like the tit for tat kind of drama stuff
I've pulled back on, which I think people are missing.
But at the end of the day I'm like I'd rather be safe than
sorry. I'm really interested and you
don't actually, if you don't feel comfortable answering this,
that's fine. No, because you might not want
to give away your secrets when, OK, let's say like a math season
is announced. I'm just curious, what's your
process? So you know that's going to be
your busiest time. Do you immediately start like
researching the contestants? Do you ask your audience?
Does anybody have any tips on these people?
Like, how do you start the process of building out that
season? The past two years I've been
really late and slow with my prep.
I've last year I was in Bali. I wasn't sure if I was going to
come back because I was like having so much.
I was like, this life is so much better over here.
I don't know if like the part, it was just so stressful is
taking a toll of me. And I was in Bali and I met one
of the contestants there and then like, so I had a really
good inn with someone. Then they introduced me to other
contestants. I was like, OK, it's meant to
be, I'll do another season. And then those people ended up
not being the best sources. And then this year I was so busy
with kind regards that I probably didn't do the prep that
I needed to do. But ideally in previous years, I
would start like as soon as they're announced when they're
filming the weddings, which is usually like June the previous
year. So it's a long time before you
start like looking into them. You'll start getting tip offs
from people that know them. Like Oh my God, I know this
person on maths. I used to date them.
And so then you kind of keep your, you're like, OK, I'll
touch base with you when the show starts.
And so you just kind of, yeah, keep collecting information.
You'll have tip offs coming in. I usually do do a call out for
tip offs, but people will see even if I've done an episode on
someone, they'll be like, oh, I know this person like you like
here's more information or something like that.
So or even if you put an episode out where you do something and
you're like, yeah, I don't really know about that, but
we'll see all that someone might listen and they know more and
they send it in. So it's an ongoing process, but
yeah, we do like a big social media deep dive on everyone to
see if there's any skeletons on the line, look into their
backstories. I'll do like criminal checks on
everyone. Girl, that's crazy.
Yeah, we I go like deep. We do like.
You're probably doing more than the network.
Oh definitely, definitely. I don't think I can't decide if
they do do background checks and they.
Don't care or something. Either they don't do them at all
because the stuff that I've found, I'm like this wasn't even
looking hard, like this was just on their YouTube, or this was
just on a basic background criminal check.
So I don't know if they do them and they ignore them or they
don't care or they see that someone has a sketchy past and
they're like, great, you're on because they kind of want those
skeletons to come out because it's all engagement for them.
So yeah, I can't decide if like, they just ignore them or don't
care or they don't even do them. Yeah.
I feel like I was going to say maybe there's a line, there's
some type of line where they're like, OK, we would say no if we
found this. No.
But then I was going to say, actually, I feel like the things
you have found, there's no way, no.
They have like full like people that have had like domestic
violence charges, fraud charges, assault charges, all of this
stuff like easily found if you just do a quick criminal check,
public records, they they still put them on.
Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, what is like, is
it murder? Is it?
Like what is the thing? Where's the?
Line. Yeah.
Where's the line? I don't think there is one to be
honest. Wow.
OK, so it's a full process for you I.
Love this. Yeah.
And just yeah, the, the social media search, even you can find
some really interesting things. Yeah, This year, even my tip
offline because I was like, OK, I'm not speaking to the
contestants. So I don't know if I'm going to
have enough content like that's going to take out a big chunk of
like information for me. But I found with my tip offline,
I was like, God, there's enough in here for me to go all season.
Like I've there's so much in here.
People send me in the craziest stuff.
I'm like, how did you guys? And because the audience is so
big now and everyone knows about it, if even if they know
something, they're like, Oh, we have to send it to so dramatic.
And so that big audience, like the tip offs are crazy things
that people find. And then I just kind of compile
it together or sometimes I'll have we had a recent one where
there was like 10 people that sent in the same thing.
Like it was a girl on maths had crazy story, 12 different name
changes. Like she changed her name 12
times. Oh my God.
And so people were sending in different parts are like, no,
her name is Cassie. And then someone else is like,
no, it's, it's something else. And I'm like, OK, so there's it
wasn't just one. So then you kind of you get all
these leads and then you you can piece it all together and it's
it. That's why I mean, it's a group
project. It's like you get to play Nancy
Drew. All the time.
And that's what I think I'm going to start leaning into more
like the investigative side so I don't have to like deal with
these people. That sounds rude, but I don't
have to deal with them. Like they just, they're hard to
manage and then if you put something out they're not happy
with, it's just I've just cut out the noise of like, I don't
even have to talk to them. I just can focus in on my
investigations. And yeah, like I said, I've got
enough tip offs, plenty of content to keep going with.
Do people try and pay you off? No, I wish.
I was going to say, would you take the money?
I've seen people commenting. Last year I was doing a lot of
stories, one of Jackie from Maths, Crazy, crazy Jackie.
I'm not calling her crazy. Everyone else did.
She was like giving me information.
She was going rogues. We did a lot of episodes on her
because there was the content there, like she was posting
stuff so we would cover it. And people like you're favoring
her. She's paid you off to report
positively on her. I'm like, no one is paying me.
I wish if anyone wants to pay me, I'm I'm I'm open, I'm
available. I'll take your money.
No, no one's paid me off. When you have sources though,
there is, I think, an expectation of like if you have
a source from the start that is giving you information and not
just positive information about themselves, like about everyone.
Like I had sources last year. I'm like, hey, what happens at
the upcoming dinner party? Or do you know about this?
They're helping you out. So you kind of need to help
them. And if you go and do like a
story on them, like this person did whatever, they're obviously
not going to like you and they're going to stop giving you
information. So you have to kind of play.
It's a hard juggle. So I found it easy this year
because I'm like, OK, I don't know.
I don't know anyone any favors. I don't have to like walk on egg
shells with anyone. I can just report on everyone.
Do contestants reach out to you in advance now?
And they're like, hey, like, let's be buddy, buddy.
Yeah, yeah. They'll reach out to me or I'll
know someone on a previous season that knows them, or a
listener might know someone and they'll put me in touch.
So yeah, they do reach out. Before I had to kind of reach
out to them or I'd send everyone like a message at the start
saying, hey, here's my number. If you need anything like let me
know, but I'm not really like chasing after them anymore.
I'm like it's a good place to be.
Please don't. Please don't ask me for help.
OK. So the final question that we
also ask everyone on this podcast and the final time that
we're going to ask it, because this is the final episode, is
can you tell us how you touch grass?
I don't. I knew you were going to say
that. Not enough anyway.
No, I would say my touching grass would be going to the
beach, which I've tried to do this year more because I live
literally across the road from the beach and my sister lives
across the road as well so there's no excuse.
Last year I didn't go to the beach once, which is crazy.
This year I've been trying to go to the beach because I just feel
like getting in the sun, getting in the water.
It's just you feel so much better instantly.
Yeah, and just like being amongst other people that, like,
don't know who you are and have no idea, like what's going on in
your DMS can be so nice. You know what's great as well?
I've got 2 nephews that are three and one and they are the
best touching grass available because as soon as you're with
kids, it's just like you just forget about all of the adult
stresses that you have and they just instantly make you happy.
Like doing the menial things that you're like, Oh my God,
this is the biggest drama for them and you can get really
involved. It just takes your mind off it.
It's it's a good distraction because you know, you're like
you have to look after them or whatever.
You're watching a movie with them.
It's a good way to switch off because you have you have no
choice to be really present with them.
So I found that it's really good as well.
I'm always saying to my sister, thank God you had kids.
I don't have my own so I can borrow yours when I need to de
stress. Yeah, it helps you regain that
perspective. Well, thanks so much, Megan.
Thanks for having me, this is really fun.
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