1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,320
Welcome to Touchgrass, a 
miniseries where I chat with 

2
00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,120
creatives about staying sane 
while being chronically online. 

3
00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:11,000
I'm your host Lauren Meisner, 
and Touchgrass is a miniseries 

4
00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:13,120
brought to you. 
By Britta where we. 

5
00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:15,880
Explore the implications of 
being chronically online with 

6
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:17,800
the creatives who can't escape 
it. 

7
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,200
One thing that keeps coming up 
in these conversations is how 

8
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,760
important small grounding 
routines are offline. 

9
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,960
And for me, one of those 
routines is drinking enough 

10
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:29,720
water. 
Whether I'm refilling my water 

11
00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,680
bottle for a long walk or taking
a break from scrolling my For 

12
00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,880
You page, Britta makes it easy 
for me to stay hydrated and 

13
00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,560
grounded. 
With pure fresh. 

14
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,760
Tasting. 
Filtered water straight. 

15
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,200
From any tap, thank you to 
Britta for supporting 

16
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,120
independent media and helping us
take better care of ourselves, 

17
00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:48,360
one refill at a time. 
Today, I'm chatting with Sammy 

18
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,040
Jenkins, a video producer, 
content creator, and founder of 

19
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,320
WILTY Meetups, a grassroots 
community that creates safe 

20
00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,440
spaces for connection. 
Through our conversation, Sammy 

21
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,480
takes me through her unexpected 
into content creation, 

22
00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,239
navigating an extroverted 
industry as an introvert, and 

23
00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:08,600
how she's become a community 
facilitator for other socially 

24
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,240
anxious young people in 
Melbourne. 

25
00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,560
I'm so sad to be chatting with 
you in this like beautiful 

26
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,560
jungle slash garden that we're 
in right now. 

27
00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,040
Yeah, this is. 
I'm a little overwhelmed, but 

28
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,400
like in the best way. 
It's really beautiful. 

29
00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,960
I wish you were here. 
So actually this I think is 

30
00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:27,920
maybe the my favorite location 
that we have recorded one of 

31
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,560
these episodes in and I'm so 
excited to be chatting with you 

32
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,120
today. 
So before we get into it, we 

33
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,520
like to ask every guest some 
iteration of this question. 

34
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,240
Would you consider yourself 
chronically online A. 100% yes. 

35
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,040
Like everyone else, my screen 
time is insane. 

36
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,280
I don't even look at it anymore 
because I know it's just like 

37
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,000
way too high. 
But we're working on it. 

38
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,280
It's a constant journey of like 
managing screen time. 

39
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:53,880
No, I know. 
I don't look at my screen time. 

40
00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,240
People ask me about that all the
time and I'm like, it's none of 

41
00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,400
my business. 
I need it for work. 

42
00:01:58,400 --> 00:01:59,760
So it's it's none of my 
business. 

43
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,120
OK, so some of your earliest 
viral Tik Toks were about 

44
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,200
quitting your job because you 
were unhappy. 

45
00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,880
At that point, did you see 
content creation as a genuine 

46
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,360
path to consider? 
Why is that funny? 

47
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,560
I don't know, I just, Oh my 
gosh, what a throwback. 

48
00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:18,240
I haven't thought about that in 
a while. 

49
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,720
I we do our research here. 
You do your research, you do 

50
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,880
your research. 
So I didn't consider it as a 

51
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,520
legitimate career path for me. 
I think I would watch a lot of 

52
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,480
creators online. 
I grew up watching YouTube and 

53
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,480
loving these people and like, to
me, they were making legit 

54
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,240
career moves. 
And I think it was an imposter 

55
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,800
syndrome thing. 
I always thought that's not for 

56
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:47,280
me. 
I'm not creative, I'm not well 

57
00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,760
spoken. 
I'm too shy to be in front of 

58
00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,400
the camera. 
So it all just kind of happened 

59
00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,520
naturally and almost like 
accidentally. 

60
00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,640
But I guess here we are. 
Yeah, that's amazing. 

61
00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:00,560
So when was that? 
How long ago was that? 

62
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,240
This will be the fourth or third
year. 

63
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,600
OK, yeah. 
So then how did you move past 

64
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,760
your imposter syndrome to start 
actually putting yourself out 

65
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,960
there? 
You know, there's like a cliche 

66
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,160
that when you first start making
content, people are really 

67
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,760
scared about what high school 
people are going to think, like 

68
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:19,880
what your friends are going to 
think. 

69
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:25,040
I created basically like a 
burner account and I thought 

70
00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:28,000
that no one would see it. 
And I kind of had this like the 

71
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,120
imposter syndrome was was very 
loud and I was like, no one's 

72
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:32,920
going to see it. 
It's probably not very good. 

73
00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,000
So I was just like posting so, 
so much. 

74
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,400
I was experimenting. 
I was like posting every single 

75
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:41,800
day. 
And I kind of did that 

76
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,120
consistently for like, I think 3
months. 

77
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,280
I guess through just trial and 
error, I found certain things, 

78
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,720
you know, went viral. 
People like certain things. 

79
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,400
And I kind of just kept doing 
it. 

80
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,480
And I guess like over time, I 
kind of build my confidence a 

81
00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:57,400
little. 
Yeah. 

82
00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,600
So can you talk to me about 
experimenting with your content?

83
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,440
Because I know a lot of your 
content centers around being 

84
00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:05,440
introverted, which is really 
interesting. 

85
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,880
I studied marketing and media, 
so I kind of was, I mean, I did 

86
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,600
a little a few internships in 
media and like at a marketing 

87
00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,959
agency when I first started, but
doing content was all new. 

88
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,480
Like I didn't have experience 
with like filming or editing or 

89
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,160
even how to like create an 
engaging cook or anything. 

90
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,640
The thing that stuck was my 
little introvert series and how 

91
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,120
that came about was I just 
genuinely loved spending time 

92
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,920
alone and I never really thought
it would go anywhere. 

93
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,520
But what was interesting is that
a lot of other people felt the 

94
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,320
same. 
A lot of other people maybe 

95
00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,000
didn't have friends or a partner
and they just wanted to go out 

96
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,560
and have fun. 
And then I thought, why don't I 

97
00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,200
just turn something that I 
already do into content? 

98
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,400
Yes, I know. 
I say that to a lot of people 

99
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,640
who asked me about like starting
content creation or how they 

100
00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,600
should build their following. 
And I say just start like 

101
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,360
documenting what you actually 
do. 

102
00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:02,320
Don't try and necessarily create
content, especially when you're 

103
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,680
starting out. 
Just document what you already 

104
00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,840
do and then you will find that 
through line of like what your 

105
00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:10,120
story can be. 
And then you can start actually 

106
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,720
experimenting with like the 
curation and like making things 

107
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,320
a little bit more, you know, 
aesthetic and things like that. 

108
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,560
OK, so the Internet often 
rewards extroversion. 

109
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,760
Have you ever felt like the 
introversion element of your 

110
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,640
content, your niche, and your 
personality was at odds with 

111
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,320
what performs well online? 
Whoa, that is such an 

112
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,640
interesting question. 
That's such an interesting 

113
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:34,240
question. 
I'm glad you asked it. 

114
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,000
I think 100 percent, 100%. 
I think working in media and 

115
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,520
marketing and like being a 
content creator, from my 

116
00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,120
experience, you're not 
encouraged to be quiet. 

117
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,720
You're encouraged to be loud. 
You're encouraged to be the 

118
00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,840
centre of attention and speak 
your mind, which I think is 

119
00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:53,400
really important. 
That's really great, but I've 

120
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,720
found that you can still have an
amazing impact by being quiet. 

121
00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:00,360
It sounds a bit wanky, but it's 
been something I've had to 

122
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,320
navigate. 
Yeah, I think content creation 

123
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,360
is one of those careers that 
even though it does kind of 

124
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,280
reward being a larger than life 
personality in some ways, that 

125
00:06:09,280 --> 00:06:12,920
also can be a really nice career
for people who are a bit more 

126
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,920
introverted. 
Because at the end of the day, a

127
00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,400
lot of your work is slow, right?
Like you're by yourself, you're 

128
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,840
speaking to a camera. 
And a lot of people find that a 

129
00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:24,400
lot more natural than having to 
speak to a room filled with 

130
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,000
people. 
So now that you have kind of 

131
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,480
this other arm to your career 
doing content creation, how 

132
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,240
would you say that has impacted 
your relationship with scrolling

133
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:42,600
in the Internet I. 
Think that it's definitely 

134
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:49,560
changed my relationship with 
like screen time and what I do 

135
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,760
when I'm like wanting to rest 
and recharge. 

136
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,640
I have to be a lot more mindful 
with the content I'm consuming 

137
00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,920
and how much time I'm actually 
spending doom scrolling because 

138
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,720
I think it's just too much. 
It's not normal to, you know, 

139
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,080
work in this space, make 
content, be creative, and then 

140
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,480
work another job that's also 
meant to be creative and then 

141
00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,760
come home and rest and look at 
your screen for three more 

142
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,520
hours. 
Like, I just don't think, you 

143
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,800
know, some people could do that 
and that's totally great for 

144
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,320
them. 
I, I feel like I just burn out 

145
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,360
and like I'll try to be really, 
really switched off or really 

146
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,960
present when I'm with my 
friends, for example, because I 

147
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,240
just don't want to look at my 
phone. 

148
00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,640
And so it's a constant like push
pull of being online and being 

149
00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,160
offline, taking care of 
yourself. 

150
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,400
Yeah, well, you can't be 
creative like it if you are 

151
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,400
never out touching grass, if you
will, if you're never 

152
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,680
experiencing life, right, That's
where you actually recharge. 

153
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,760
But it's also where you get 
inspiration. 

154
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:57,000
Do you feel like you have a hard
time switching off when you say 

155
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,960
that you don't really use your 
phone when you're with your 

156
00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:02,920
friends or you're intentionally 
trying not to scroll? 

157
00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:08,640
Is that difficult for you? 
Oh, the the big question. 

158
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,840
Yeah, Literally the biggest 
question. 

159
00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,920
Yeah. 
I do have a problem with 

160
00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:17,640
switching off and it's something
that I just haven't gotten right

161
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:18,760
yet. 
And I think it's something 

162
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,080
that's just really hard to do in
2026. 

163
00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,520
Like we are all chronically 
online. 

164
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,720
Yes. 
I think it's just like being 

165
00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,560
intentional with your energy and
your time and even like the 

166
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,480
people that you're with. 
I am so grateful that a lot of 

167
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,240
my friends now, when we hang 
out, we are there with each 

168
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,720
other, and it's not really about
us just being in a room 

169
00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,600
scrolling together. 
We're often doing things or, 

170
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,520
like, having really meaningful 
conversations. 

171
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,960
And I feel so recharged from 
those Hangouts. 

172
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,360
But sometimes I do still find 
myself going home and doing 

173
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,200
scrolling. 
And I leave those experiences 

174
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:55,800
just not feeling good. 
Yeah. 

175
00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,240
And when I don't clock that, you
know, it can just happen again 

176
00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:01,960
and again. 
And then two weeks have gone by 

177
00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:06,800
and you're like, oh, I've wasted
a lot of time watching nothing 

178
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,520
on my phone. 
Yeah, I know literally nothing 

179
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,440
is worse than the do scroll. 
It makes me feel so bad about 

180
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,280
myself but I have feel like I 
have to do it for work. 

181
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,400
I'm yeah it's so hard. 
So I wanted to pivot and chat 

182
00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,840
with you about WILTY meetups. 
Can you tell us what that is? 

183
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,800
Yes, I can. 
That's my little baby. 

184
00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,400
Multi Meetups is a community 
that I started about four years 

185
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,680
ago and we host meetups for 
introverts. 

186
00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,320
A lot of people ask me I'm I'm 
an extrovert, can I come along? 

187
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,200
Yes, I can come along. 
It's not exclusive. 

188
00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:43,920
No discrimination. 
No discrimination here. 

189
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,640
We love all people, but yeah, 
it, it kind of happened 

190
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,760
organically through creating 
content about doing things 

191
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,800
around Melbourne. 
And then other people in my 

192
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,480
comments section were making 
friends with each other, were 

193
00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,960
wanting to set up plans and, and
kind of create a group. 

194
00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:04,760
So through that, I hosted one 
meet up one day and, you know, 

195
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,280
didn't expect anyone to show up.
I think about 10 people showed 

196
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,040
up. 
We were just complete strangers.

197
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:15,880
And it's literally just been 
hosting these monthly events 

198
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,600
ever since. 
And monthly, that's a lot. 

199
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,880
About monthly, you know, 
sometimes I've, you know, had to

200
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,360
take a break here and there, but
it's been, it's been a pretty 

201
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,480
constant, yeah. 
Wow, that's amazing. 

202
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,120
Has anything surprised you about
hosting events offline? 

203
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,280
Yeah. 
I've been thinking about this a 

204
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,920
lot recently and it's 
interesting because, you know, I

205
00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,640
am a content creator. 
I do kind of exists online and 

206
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,480
the meet ups is everything's in 
person. 

207
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,360
So it's like it's really 
interesting. 

208
00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,840
And I think what surprised me is
how real it feels, how real 

209
00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,560
everyone is who shows up to 
these events. 

210
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,200
I try to do a little spiel at 
the start to kind of remind 

211
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,200
people like, hey, we all don't 
know each other. 

212
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,200
Hey, we're all here because we 
met on social media, but I kind 

213
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,000
of come from a place that social
media is fake a lot of the time.

214
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:13,760
And at these events, like, be 
real, like try to be your most 

215
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,880
real self. 
And what surprised me is like, 

216
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,800
even though people say they're 
introverted, give it like 10 

217
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:21,440
minutes. 
Everyone's like making friends 

218
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,360
and everyone's, you know, 
feeling really comfy. 

219
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,480
And then they leave and they've 
made a whole new friend group. 

220
00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,160
And it's just really, really 
wholesome. 

221
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,400
Yeah, it's great. 
I've been to a couple in Sydney 

222
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,040
through different organizations,
and every time I leave, I find, 

223
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,880
honestly, there's a totally 
different type of energy when 

224
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,920
you're in a room filled with 
people that you don't know. 

225
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,920
And I, I feel like it's such a 
great opportunity to let your 

226
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,280
guard down even more than I feel
like if you're in a room filled 

227
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,720
with people that you do know 
because, you know, at that 

228
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,800
point, there's no judgement. 
People don't know your back 

229
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:55,080
story. 
They don't know who you are. 

230
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,600
And you can really just, like 
you said, truly be your 

231
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,440
authentic self. 
That's how I have felt at these 

232
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:00,960
events at least. 
Yeah. 

233
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,160
I love that. 
You know, there is a lot of 

234
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,120
discussion about the lack of 
third spaces and actually one of

235
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,320
our interviews that we had 
yesterday, yesterday with Eugene

236
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,160
Healy, he was saying not that he
said that doesn't necessarily 

237
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,440
that conversation doesn't apply 
to Australia, but he was saying 

238
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,920
less so in Australia. 
He said we actually do have a 

239
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,240
lot of, he believes there's a 
lot of like infrastructure here 

240
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,520
that still supports third spaces
for young people. 

241
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,920
But from your experience, what 
is it that you think young 

242
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,240
people want from community? 
Unrelated but I'm a big Eugene 

243
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,360
Healy fan so I can't believe you
met him. 

244
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,200
I'm very jealous. 
Hi Eugene. 

245
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,080
Anyways, I also think about this
a lot and I was thinking in the 

246
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,080
shower this morning actually. 
That community is such a 

247
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,920
buzzword at the moment it feels,
especially if you work in the 

248
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,200
social media space. 
I think what young people and 

249
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,800
adults are looking for is really
a place where they can come 

250
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:55,880
together and let their guard 
down. 

251
00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:00,280
I think yes, we are so like 
privileged here in Australia and

252
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,280
in Melbourne to have a lot of 
third spaces where people can 

253
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,320
gather safely and connect. 
But what we can always improve 

254
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,640
on is how do we make people feel
safe in these environments? 

255
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:15,360
How do we make them feel like 
they can express themselves 

256
00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,640
without judgment? 
I think, you know, that's 

257
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,080
something that's really 
important to me in any, you 

258
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,120
know, event that I have because,
you know, I'm very anxious. 

259
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,840
I have a lot of social anxiety. 
I know a lot of my peers do as 

260
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,280
well. 
And, you know, everyone's a bit 

261
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,920
like tense because we're all 
chronically online. 

262
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,120
So like, how nice to be able to 
walk into a space and just feel 

263
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:36,040
free. 
Yes. 

264
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:37,360
Oh, my God. 
Free. 

265
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,880
That's actually the perfect word
that I was looking for when I 

266
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,960
was talking about like, I 
genuinely, when I leave. 

267
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,240
Yeah, when I leave, meet up 
sometimes with people that I 

268
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,560
don't know, I genuinely feel a 
sense of freedom. 

269
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,080
It's so nice. 
Do you think that social 

270
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,800
platforms or even brands have a 
type of responsibility? 

271
00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,760
Do they have a responsibility to
help foster a sense of 

272
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,400
community? 
I think they do. 

273
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,480
I think it would be great if all
brands had that awareness of 

274
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,920
creating community. 
And I think if they're a strong 

275
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,360
brand with strong values and a 
mission and they're doing good 

276
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,680
in the world, I think that the 
community will just form 

277
00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:17,480
naturally. 
That said, I think they do have 

278
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,960
somewhat of a responsibility to 
take care of their customers and

279
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,360
take care of their audience or 
even just someone who follows 

280
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,840
their Instagram, whether or not 
that's actually happening with 

281
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,640
brands. 
I feel like there's a lot of 

282
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,800
performative community 
happening, like brands wanting 

283
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,720
to capitalize on this buzzword, 
but fostering real community I 

284
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,520
think takes like a really 
intense level of care and just 

285
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:45,640
like awareness of people's needs
and different people's needs as 

286
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:48,640
well. 
I agree, I think a great way for

287
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:53,040
brands to start, given what you 
just said with, you know, the 

288
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:57,640
level of care that it requires 
to truly foster a meaningful 

289
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,280
community. 
I think a great place for a 

290
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:03,240
brand to start is to support 
existing community initiatives 

291
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,720
like WILTY meetups like the 
heated rivalry look alike 

292
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,440
competition that just happened 
in Sydney. 

293
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,000
Oh my God, yes. 
Yes. 

294
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,480
Did you see you saw that on? 
Social. 

295
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,920
I saw that everywhere on Social.
Shout out Lena. 

296
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:17,800
Yes. 
Did you go to it? 

297
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:19,960
No, but Lena's actually our 
guest. 

298
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,120
She come her episode comes out 
today. 

299
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:23,960
Oh no way. 
Oh my God. 

300
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,880
Amazing. 
Yeah, no, she's great. 

301
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,160
No, I couldn't go to it, 
unfortunately. 

302
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,920
I actually did have a nail 
appointment and I know that 

303
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,560
sounds dramatic but my nails 
take like 4 hours. 

304
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,160
That's valid. 
That's so valid. 

305
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,640
Yeah. 
So yeah, I. 

306
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,120
Think, you know, supporting kind
of grassroots initiatives like 

307
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,040
that that are already happening 
through creators or people where

308
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,680
they align with their message 
and they align with what that 

309
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,000
person is trying to do. 
That's a great place to start, I

310
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,200
feel. 
So, given how deeply your work 

311
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,160
is intertwined with mental 
health and community, how do you

312
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,000
personally protect your 
emotional well-being while still

313
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,600
showing up online and showing up
for your community that you're 

314
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:02,160
building? 
Yeah, I think like, like I said 

315
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:07,360
before, it's like a constant 
push pull of maneuvering your 

316
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,800
online offline self. 
I think it comes down to having 

317
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,000
very clear boundaries and rules 
for yourself because you know 

318
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,560
when you're online and when 
you're making content, even 

319
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,440
though it's like authentic and 
it can have impact, it's still 

320
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,800
like the curated version of 
yourself doing practices like 

321
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,720
journaling or walking or 
spending time with friends who 

322
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,840
you feel safe with when you're 
offline. 

323
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,040
Doing those things is really 
important to, like, come back to

324
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,600
your sense of self, which sounds
like. 

325
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,600
Yeah, I think that's important 
because if I don't know when I 

326
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:46,160
don't do these things sometimes,
you know, historically I've 

327
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,800
gotten caught up in, oh, this 
video performed really well. 

328
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,120
I feel so good about myself. 
Then a video performs really 

329
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:54,560
badly. 
I'm like, well, I guess I'm a 

330
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:55,440
failure. 
Yeah. 

331
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,560
But that shouldn't be the case 
at all. 

332
00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,760
Like, that's kind of crazy to 
say that out loud. 

333
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,120
So. 
Yeah, leaning into like, like 

334
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,560
your your community and fun 
mental health well-being 

335
00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,920
practices like journaling. 
Yeah, it's so hard because in 

336
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,760
this line of work, your identity
is so intertwined with what you 

337
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,640
do, how you perform, all that. 
It's so hard to, like, untangle 

338
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,040
that, Yeah. 
Do you feel like there's any 

339
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,520
lessons that you've had to learn
the hard way while being 

340
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,480
chronically online, whether it's
through work or just through 

341
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,359
your own personal like social 
media use? 

342
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,600
Oh my God, so many lessons, so 
many lessons. 

343
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,080
I feel like I'm constantly 
learning lessons and like 

344
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,320
readjusting things. 
Yeah, one of the biggest lessons

345
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,520
is like your online self and 
persona. 

346
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,360
It's still you, like you said, 
but it doesn't have to be you 

347
00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:48,720
and it's not where you should be
drawing your worth from. 

348
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:54,920
Yeah, like don't attach yourself
worth, self love, identity to 

349
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,680
your Instagram. 
Yeah, it's difficult because I 

350
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,200
create content. 
We all create content, and I 

351
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,480
love expressing myself online. 
But you just have to be really 

352
00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,600
mindful if you want to like, 
work in this career path, right?

353
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,560
Or like you want to do it 
sustainably. 

354
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,880
Like it's not. 
It's not for everyone. 

355
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:14,360
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

356
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,440
No, that makes sense. 
OK, So the last thing I would 

357
00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,000
love to know from you is how do 
you touch grass? 

358
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:27,440
I love to literally go to the 
park and sit on the grass. 

359
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,080
And touch grass. 
I love to like literally touch 

360
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:33,560
the grass. 
I find that really healing. 

361
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:35,600
Yeah. 
Going to the park, grabbing like

362
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,640
a little picnic mat, whipping 
out my journal or like I've been

363
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,200
listening to these really quick 
like 5 minute meditation or 

364
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,640
affirmations like literally from
Spotify. 

365
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,840
And then like maybe exercising 
and seeing friends. 

366
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,920
Like any offline activity that's
just like something fun to do. 

367
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,440
It's just like super recharging 
for me. 

368
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:02,880
Thank you so much. 
Thank you. 

369
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,520
For having me, this is so much 
fun. 

370
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,800
Centennial world podcast network
operates on gadigal land we 

371
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,640
would like to acknowledge the 
gadigal of the eora nation, the 

372
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,080
traditional custodians of this 
land and pay our. 

373
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,640
Respects to elders. 
Both past and present.