On August 8th, 2021, Emma Chamberlain posted an update to
the Community tab on YouTube, written to her then 10.4 million
subscribers. Emma announced that she was
taking a hiatus from her channel quote, taking a few more weeks
off to think. I need to take my own advice on
taking a break when it's needed. This isn't a negative thing
though. I'm thinking a lot about how I
can evolve and make things that truly excite me.
I haven't taken a step back in a long time to ask myself what
that means. I love and appreciate you and I
will see you soon. Those few more weeks off soon
turned into half a year of radio silence from Emma on YouTube.
The creator was only 20 years old at the time and had already
achieved fame and fortune from her online career, which she
started in 2016 While still at high school.
Though Emma's success was built off sharing bits of her personal
life through her vlogs and podcast, this hiatus marked a
noticeable change in her content.
Her videos featured more visual storytelling, less personal
updates, and she felt more guarded than throughout her
earlier career. Emma had made the conscious
decision to become more private online, a choice that many other
young people, creators or not, have opted for in recent years
because unlike their millennial counterparts, Gen.
Z has experienced the perils of oversharing on social media
since before they were teenagers.
They understand the risks associated with being constantly
surveilled online, and they find the constant attention seeking
behavior required to build an online following quite frankly,
embarrassing. After growing up in a media
space plagued by cancel culture, misinformation, and virtually no
opportunity for anonymity, Gen. Z is replacing performance for
privacy. But what, if anything, does Gen.
Z's pursuit of privacy mean, then for the future of the
creator economy? From Centennial World, I'm
Lauren Meisner, and this is Infinite Scroll, a podcast about
Internet culture, the creator economy, and how social media is
shaping Gen. Z.
Welcome back to Infinite Scroll, everyone.
All right, so I have a little update.
I am feeling quite I'll this week.
I'm very under the weather. So this is actually an updated
encore episode from season three where Jordy and I explored why
Gen. Z is more private online than
other generations and what this means for the future of social
media. So we've never done an encore or
like a rerun before. I know a lot of podcasts that I
listen to do this quite often, I guess when they have a week off
or if they just need some extra time to prep.
We've never done it. So I hope that those of you,
especially the ones that found us last year and maybe haven't
listened to our back catalog yet, hopefully you enjoy it.
Hopefully you learn something and you enjoy kind of the OG
vibes with Jordy. Now, this episode was also
recorded prior to us filming everything for YouTube.
So if you're listening to this or watching this on YouTube,
you'll still be able to listen to the full episode, but you
just won't see myself or Jordy talking.
And in terms of some updates, I wanted to share a couple little
things for you this week. So the first big thing that's
happening is Centennial World, the media brand that the podcast
it's under. We have made the decision to
cease publishing on Instagram, which is a really wild decision
as a publisher. It feels almost like a legal to
do as a publisher, but there was a few reasons for that.
The 1st is that meta? I'm sure if you guys are in the
social space you would have, you know, seen this or heard about
this. But meta has made the decision
to stop or I guess start deprioritizing news and like
political content. Quote, UN quote.
But what qualifies as political content is very murky and it's
quite unclear and a lot of the stuff that we cover when it
comes to creators like even you know our topic last week on Trad
Wives that could be considered quote UN quote, political.
So you know that was kind of part of the decision for sure.
That was a recent development that Meta decided to make.
But I would say the bigger reason why we decided to do this
is just because the Instagram like the Centennial World
Instagram not the infinite scroll podcast Instagram but the
Centennial World Instagram. It has been like my cross to
bear for the last four years since we launched.
Content is kind of my job and I just could not figure it out.
I tried so many different things, you know, the things
that I would post on there, if I posted on any other platform,
Pinterest or TikTok or whatever, they would do so well on those
other platforms. It never did well on Instagram
at all. Growing the Instagram was so
difficult, it felt like impossible.
And I think I just had to come to terms with the fact that the
content that we're creating is not super conducive to
Instagram. Now maybe if we had launched the
business in Instagram's heyday like 2015, 2016, you know, we
would have a lots of followers naturally because of that.
But when it comes to analyzing the creator economy and Internet
culture topics and things like that, people like to absorb that
or like to consume that on TikTok.
They like to consume it on YouTube and in podcast format
and even newsletter like every other platform including our
site like every platform that we have have is consistently
growing and quite successful and the Instagram just was not so.
I actually worked with a business consultant at the
beginning of the year. And that was one of his first
pieces of advice to me was, you know, identify the places in the
business that you are spending time and energy and thus money
that are not working. And he literally said to me, if
you have been working on the Instagram account for four
years, it's not growing. It has never grown.
You've never monetized it. And it's not like you're just
seeing no results. They're like, why are you
beating a dead horse? Like, why are you still trying
this? And that was in January.
So it took me a few months to really grapple with the fact
that, like, as a publisher, maybe we shouldn't necessarily
focus on Instagram. But that was our decision.
So I pulled the plug on our Instagram account earlier this
week. I still like it still exists and
we've posted a few tiles to explain why our Instagram is
bare who we are, where you can actually find us, that kind of
stuff. I'm not sure if it will stay
like that forever. You know, I have thought maybe I
should make it like a brand portfolio almost kind of like a
LinkedIn, almost like, you know, like share snippets from the
Coach event for example, that you guys came to share examples
of different campaigns we're working on.
When I speak on panels on behalf of the brand share that like
just those kinds of things, I thought maybe we could do that
as like a snapshot of the brand. But for now with the limited
time and resources that I have at the moment, I'm just going to
keep it as is. So that was a pretty big
decision. I know some of you guys like the
business updates, some of you don't really care, but for those
that do, but this ties in to my next update.
I don't want to necessarily give it away, but in the tiles that I
posted on Instagram, sharing that we're no longer publishing
on Instagram and kind of explaining who we are, I left a
little Easter egg and only so far one of you has at least
maybe more of you have seen it. But one of you has reached out
to say I found the Easter egg. I cannot believe it.
So go take a look. That's a little hint for you
guys on what's to come next for this podcast.
OK, so as always, Please remember to rate, review and
subscribe. It means so much to me.
It helps me grow. It keeps me going.
Please sign up to our newsletter, which is called
Infinite Scroll. On Wednesdays we send out a
commentary article about a trend, creator, drama or news.
And on Fridays we round up the five biggest thing pieces about
Internet culture on the Internet that week.
And also join our Geneva group called Infinite Scroll, where
you can chat with other people who are also obsessed with
Internet culture and drama and tea and all of that.
And you can talk to me. All right, Here are some reviews
that we got this week. I love reading these out.
So Hottie XOX Rach said. I absolutely loved this episode.
So informative but in a fun way. About the Trad Wife episode.
So thank you so much. Rach means so much.
She said that on Spotify. Big boy Becky on YouTube says, I
particularly love this episode because it's a very informative
video, both politically and socially.
I personally find making food from scratch, especially for
your kids, such an obviously performative and unrealistic
act, but so many are eating it up it's just not feasible.
But then again, they are sellers of an unattainable and
inherently racist lifestyle, so it makes sense that it appears
comical from the outside. Thank you for continuing
Infinite Scroll. Looking forward to your future
plans. Thank you.
And then Hannah said in my DMS OG listener Hannah, she's with
Lauren Dash and I absolutely loved this week's podcast.
Such a fascinating topic and so well presented as always.
I audibly gasped and scared the dog a few times.
Can't wait for more. Dash is her dog.
Thank you Hannah. So as I said, this is a rerun
that has been re edited for you guys from season three while I'm
kind of recovering from being you know, under the weather,
overwhelmed, exhausted, needing a bit of a break this week but I
will be back next week with a brand new topic, a brand new
episode. Can't wait to chat with you guys
then. So without further ado, I hope
you liked the episode. So we are going to.
Be talking about the concept of like privacy online and why
we're seeing this shift in Gen. Z away from being super public
and open online to seeking privacy and anonymity.
I'm sorry, I I've struggled with that word online.
It's it gives me and then an enemy like that.
What was that word that I couldn't say when we did the
lebrance? Evangelical.
Yeah. Yeah, you got it first time.
Yeah, I got it bad. It's.
Because it because it wasn't like over and over and over
again like you get in your head about it.
Yes, 100%. So this week we're going to be
pulling from two different articles that we think really
facilitate an interesting conversation around this.
And you know, there's obviously a lot of discussion that's
starting about this. So the first one is written by
Caitlin Tiffany at The Atlantic. The piece that's called the
Personal brand is dead. So the piece explores how for
millennials, being famous online was really cool.
So millennials are the first generation of people to become
like genuine influencers and make enough money to turn it
into a full time job. So they were essentially seen
like the early days of influencers were seen as Trail
Blazers, Like they basically carved out this entire new
career for themselves. Hello, As people have become
more accustomed to the concept of an influencer and we've seen
the process and expectations evolve.
Like often for the worst. Gen.
Z are rebelling against this idea and instead almost find
having a large social media presence embarrassing.
I find that so. Like, I find that in general
embarrassing because interesting because I was saying to
Courtney, I think that she didn't want to watch the summary
turned pretty on Amazon Prime because her friend told her that
it was like, cringy. I haven't seen it.
But, like, that's real life, you know, like I said this the other
week, like, I just think it's so funny that we're just so used to
everything being so scripted. And that's not how real life
actually is. Like, when you're 16, which is
what, the age of the people in the summer, I turn pretty.
Like that is real life, that everything feels a little bit
awkward and uncomfortable and you don't actually know, like
what you're doing and just, like, fumbling around.
So I feel like Gen. Z thinks so much is
embarrassing, which I think is hilarious.
Did you ever watch the show Love?
No. Jillian Flynn, Is that her?
Jillian. No, that's an author.
Jillian. Oh, something.
But she's in community. But it's like that.
It's like, you watch it and it's about like, yeah, like a couple
that kind of finds love. But it's like, it's so awkward,
but it's so real. Like, it's so raw and like,
that's what it's like when you first kind of meet someone and
start dating them or start kind of 1 views into each other and
the others not like. And it's like all those cringey
moments that you want to die. And then you think of the flip
side like Gossip Girl, which is like the complete opposite.
It's like they're supposed to be what, like 1516?
And they're like, so witty, so mature, so polished.
And you're just like This is so unrealistic, but it's also so
good, yeah. But you don't know that if
that's all the media you're consuming is that same kind of
really polished scripted content that it seems like really
jarring to see the awkward real life version, but that's it's
more, it's more realistic, you know.
So Caitlin Tiffany explains that this like, move away from having
large social media followings is evident in like a resurgence of
apps like Tumblr and Discord, which obviously allows for like
anonymous voice and text conversations.
And like crafting like how Tumblr works, you're like
crafting your personal brand, but in a way that, like, nobody
knows who you are. So she explains that like
crafting A cohesive, persistent personal brand, which is
something millennials were really excited to do.
And I feel like part of the appeal was like competing to who
could create the best personal brand, who could show, like who
could have the best life and like represent that in the best
way. So now that seems like something
that's been, it seems like exhausting to Gen.
Z. As a result, it seems like
something they're like not willing to participate in.
They don't wanna curate this image of their life.
They're like I'm tired. Well, yeah.
Like, it's literally so much work to try and have a personal
brand, especially if you're just a regular person.
Like, I feel like the concept of a personal brand and how like
everybody has to have a personal brand online because obviously
we all have social media and whatever.
Like that was a concept that I feel like was fed to us by these
like productivity gurus and like coaches and this is like fed to
millennials. And I mean, we were again, like
we've talked about this so many times, but like the first
generation obviously that grew up with like social media, the
first generation on social media really like as a generation.
So we did think like it was important to have this kind of
really polished, cohesive personal brand.
But I just think for Gen. Zed, they see that they don't
necessarily need that there's already been some kind of trial
and error. It's exhausting the idea of like
Gen. Zed like ditching the personal
brand. Like it totally tracks with how
they see work in general, right. Like they don't subscribe to
like this romanticization of Labor the way that millennials
do. They don't subscribe to like,
Hustle culture. So to them, they're like, why
would I turn my personal social media that I use to like,
connect with my friends and like, follow the things that I
like into work if I don't even work in this space, Like, if I'm
not trying to be, that's. So true.
It's so interesting how we were told that and I still very much
subscribe to this mentality that my like Instagram is a resume
almost. And I know it's different in
creative industries. It's like exacerbated a little
bit as well. But that is like what you're
putting out to the world. And because we're so like
interconnected now, you know, like we're doing work trips to
the US and between Canada and Australia and all this stuff,
it's like this is potentially how you get new business because
people find you like intriguing or put together or like
intelligent like these. All the kind of things that
we're trying to put out, like through our tiny, like little
grid on an app on our phone, like, are we OK?
But then I think about like, when I think about, yeah, that
concept of like us using social, social media as a resume, it is
different as like a business owner, but still it's very much
like something that our, our generation does.
But then I think about when we're hiring people and where we
hired Gen. Zed, like we have never hired
anybody that wasn't Gen. Zed so far.
If I look them up on Instagram and they're private, like I
don't even think about them like, OK, what?
Like, you know what I mean? Like it doesn't like impact my
decision. Like sometimes I don't even look
at somebody's Instagram because I'm just looking at their resume
and their writing samples or whatever.
Like, I just, I do think that we put a lot of pressure on
ourselves with this and it's not as big of a deal as, like our
parents told us it would be. Well, that's the thing.
At the beginning I was going through high school and I've
mentioned this on the podcast before.
We were having training courses by Internet experts to not put
like drunk photos of ourselves on Myspace or Facebook.
Because then by the time you want to get a job like however
many years later, like, they could easily resurface and the
police can only do. We will literally get scared
half to death by people coming in and saying the police can't
remove those images because once you've put it there, they've
probably been circulated like thousands of times that will
live online forever. Like the police can only do so
much. Like obviously there's a sliding
scale of what's embarrassing enough that you would like go to
the police and have removed and the whole revenge porn aspect is
like a whole other part of it. But I do think that we were
scared so much into like the way that we present online that it's
like affected and become a thread through like every single
thing we do now. So Kaitlyn Tiffany says in her
Atlantic piece, it seems like Gen.
Z is getting really tired of presentation culture, as you
might call it. So Zeke, a 21 year old biologist
and frequent Discord chatter told her the idea that
everything you do has to be a represent, has to be a
representation of your personal identity is just like crazy to
them. And I agree with what you said
as far as the gap they have, Gen.
Z have a better separation between work and home life.
Like they're not looking for them to be connected.
They want to go to work and then come home.
Like I think growing up in a pandemic, their formative years
have really shifted their expectation of what's worth
their energy because of the strain on their mental health
over the last few years between like world events and social
media. They do really want this
separation. And I think if you treat social
media as an extension of work, then it feels like work.
The writer credits the trend of like anonymity and this move
away from personal brand as a response to a few things.
So the first being security concerns, which we kind of
touched on. So this was really exacerbated
during the Black Lives Matter protest.
Like lots of young people downloaded Signal and encrypted
messaging app, which I understand to be like WhatsApp.
I don't really know the difference between Signal and
WhatsApp, but it is encrypted, so it's downloaded, they
downloaded it and communicated via Signal to avoid
surveillance. And then K Pop fans derailing
the Trump rally was another example of anonymous users
banding together to, like, instigate social change.
But that did feel like something extremely that felt like a
moment that was really heated and potentially dangerous.
So the anonymity for something like that was really important.
And then other activists were sharing tools to blur protesters
faces and Instagram stories. So I think we saw this with the
January 6th Capital riots, how social media was utilized like
in a negative way. It was utilized as a planning
and organizational tool for people with a shared ethos to
connect and then like organize to be in the same place in the
same time. And it really kind of like riled
people up together and help them organize the rights in the 1st
place. But then it became a tool for
people, for police to track down the people who were involved.
So heaps of people bragged about it on social media.
They got found, lots of people were identified from like social
media stories, like Instagram stories and Facebook stories and
then the police were able to track them down through that.
So we saw like kind of both sides of the security issues in
like a hated political circumstance like that.
Another reason she credits is the rise of Web 3 and crypto
culture. So the premise of crypto,
obviously is that transactions can be made online without the
exchange of personally identifying information and then
the rise of. NFTS to have seen people like
replacing their profile pictures with cartoons and like images
that aren't themselves, This personally feels really jarring
to me and I feel like it's not sustainable because like to buy
a house or get a loan or buy a car like you need to show your
identity and payslips and proof of funds and it has to be tied
to your like actual in real life personal identity.
So I feel like this reason for anonymity can't coexist with
real life. Like it feels like very Gen.
Z and futuristic. But I don't know, maybe I don't
see the vision. I feel like I'm talking like a
boomer, but like it almost has to exist in isolation.
Like you can't have grown up things and live a grown up life
and exist anonymously and live through crypto, you know?
I know. I really wish Sean was here.
So he could just like have a point, 'cause I just know he
would be like, well, This is why.
Or like or he would agree with you and have an explanation but
because I don't understand it well enough either.
But like Christine Quinn has that company where she you can
buy houses with crypto, you can't take out a mortgage with
crypto. So she is selling houses I'm
assuming outright. Or what I was thinking is would
it be her company buying houses like with real money and then
she is selling them for crypto? Possibly.
My understanding of Web three and the concept of crypto and
stuff is so that it's like decentralized, right?
So that it's like we take the power out of like the hands of
like the few elite in the world, like the banks and the
government and whatever, regulating how we spend our
money and how much things cost and whatever.
And it's like the power is back in your hands because everything
is anonymous and there's no way to trace it.
So maybe at the end of the day, like, you'll be buying, like
Christine will be brokering between me wanting to sell my
house and get paid in crypto to somebody that wants to pay in
crypto. So she's finding those two
people and is connecting them. And then I guess you just have a
contract drawn up that specifies that.
So it is like possible, I suppose It's just like kind of
finding a new God that like, understands it and is willing to
engage in a contract of like that kind.
I guess the concept is that in like, you know, whatever, 20
years you'll just have your wallet, like your crypto wallet
and that'll be like another bank account and you'll be able to
buy lots of things online for crypto and it might be possibly
way cheaper than, you know, real money or whatever, because it's
all decentralized. I don't know, we're very not
well versed in this guy, so I'm sorry if this is bothering you.
I. Actually try quite hard.
I just I I really struggle. I do feel like we need to do
like a training session in Web 3.
I yes, I need somebody to conduct a training session in
web three. Like what the fuck?
Like I consume so much content about like Internet culture and
same with you, like tech developments and everything.
And I still just like cannot. So if any of our listeners are
experts in Web Three hit us up, we need some explainers.
OK, so the third reason that Kaitlyn Tiffany references in
the Atlantic piece for this move towards anonymity is nostalgia.
So she explains Discord is an example of this and Suggests had
nostalgia amongst Gen. Z for the like foreign culture
that existed mostly before they were born.
So Tumblr is the same, she says. Tumblr was at its peak just
before the era of the Influencer and that's the feeling that Gen.
Z are chasing. They're chasing this time like
before the influencer existed. And these platforms let people
be known for their like point of view or what they can bring to,
say, a round table discussion, rather than like their face or
even their personality, which is what Instagram and Tiktok
function around. Yeah, like that makes sense.
I mean, my favorite corner of the Internet, like my favorite
place to be on the Internet is this is gonna like straight up
make me sound like a boomer. Speaking of sounding like a
boomer is being in my Facebook groups because they are like
Discord servers basically for like the podcast that I listen
to. And that's like the only I'm in
like dog spotting, which like everybody is in dog spotting.
And then I'm in, like, all the different Facebook groups for my
favorite podcasts. And like, I can't help if
they're on Facebook, OK, It's like, if you're in our Facebook
group, you can't help that we chose Facebook instead of
Discord. OK, so, like, don't shame me,
but it's like the best place to be because it's just this, like,
collective of people that have this, like, shared interests.
And I know in the article when she was interviewing Gen.
Z who are like, really into Discord service, it's the same
thing. It's like, it's so chill.
It's like people will post like something about pop culture and
be like, what's your opinion on this?
Or like, let's talk about this. And I just love to read
everybody's opinions. And it's just so calm and chill.
And there's not all these like weird assumptions and things
taken out of context the same way, if you had posted that on
Twitter, for example. So the second piece that we're
going to talk about is written by our writer Annabelle, and
it's called the pursuit for privacy.
What does anonymity mean online mean for Gen.
Z? So Annabelle justification is
slightly different for why Gen. Z prioritizes anonymity so
highly. She says it partly comes down to
the fact that Gen. Z content creators are acting as
role models, and they're taking a step back from their social
media presences and careers and influencing their young
audiences to do the same. So Annabelle's examples are best
dressed Joanna, Cedia, and even Emma Chamberlain.
Until recently, they've all left their social media platforms,
taking a step back at what seems to be the height of their
careers so a YouTube creator, Nicole Raffy.
She explains how influences that have risen from being, quote, UN
quote authentic are now seeing this conflict with their
privacy. So every part of the viral space
becomes commodified. And because of this, something
as simple as giving creators a video view or using their
discount code breeds a sense of entitlement among viewers.
So Nicole says that we detach creators, especially women, from
being human beings. They owe us something,
especially if we have helped them build their success.
If we gave them that, they owe us something in return.
So people, as a result, expect this unfiltered access to the
personal lives of these creators.
But because young people have grown up from the beginning,
watching people build their personal brand, it's like
they're only just discovering how good it feels to be no one
in particular or to try on different identities, Caitlin
writes for The Atlantic. So huge viral creators like Emma
Chamberlain are included in this.
Like she's been building a personal brand for so long that
she actually doesn't know what it's like not to be tied to the
version of herself that she's created on the Internet.
What's interesting about this, about what Nicole said about
how, like, we detach creators from being human beings and we
feel like they owe us something because we've given them their
careers. Like, I was listening to a
podcast a couple days ago and it was 2 pretty big influencers
talking about a cancellation. They didn't name the name, but
like, I would bet so much money that they were talking about
tanks. They were talking about how they
were messaging her to say, like, you know, you'll get through
this, whatever. They said that this person, I
think it's tanks, but it was definitely not confirmed.
But whoever it was responded to one of them and said, like, I'm
having a really hard time because I I've given these
people everything and look what they've done to me.
And I thought and they just said this in like a throwaway like
amongst their conversation. But it was so interesting to me
that this influencer like sees it that way, that they see it as
the reverse. Like I have given you all of me
and now you've turned on me. And it's like we feel the same.
We feel like we have given us viewers, like we have given you
everything. We've given you our time, our
energy, our support, our money, like all of these things.
It's so interesting how at the end of the day, both people feel
the exact same way. And it's such a transaction, but
there's still so much emotion involved in it. 100% It's like
neither can quite conflate how the other side feels, but they
think that they understand. So it it does make complete
sense that like influencers or creators like Emma Chamberlain
that have been doing this for literally her whole adult life,
for a lot of her teenage life too.
So at this point, people wanting to be anonymous or take a step
back from social media is merely mimicking whether they realize
it or not. They're just like reacting to
what their favorite creators are doing in this shift that they've
seen their creators like this realization moment for them and
then this step down moment. And we don't get to see if
they're happy or not. But you like, assume that
they're happy once they've left the Internet, like that was the
point. Otherwise they'd come back,
right? I mean that's so true with
everything, like look at how trends go on, even like
aesthetics. With Instagram it used to be
like having overly like Lightroom preset grids were like
super in and then it was like having no presets, normal grids
and now it's like having dark grids.
I am so tired of the dark aesthetic.
I don't want to see a practically pitch black photo of
you in Tuscany. I want to see the colors if you
are in Tuscany. I want to see the yellows and
the Blues and the greens. Like what is with this like, dim
light shit? 100 percent, 100%.
So what Annabelle brings up that's really important to look
at is the dark side of anonymity on social media.
So we've spoken about kind of like all the reasons that Gen.
Z want to be anonymous and why, that they feel like it's an
issue that they've had to do this.
But she also explains that while privacy comes with, you know,
freedom, flexibility and anonymity, it also encourages
trolls and misinformation to spread.
Users who hide behind faceless profiles feel a disconnect
between them as people and their online persona.
And because of this, a sense of anarchy has come to dominate
social media platforms and as a result it creates a really
dangerous environment. So the fact that we have become
so accustomed to seeing an onslaught of hate in any
particular comment section is like a really fucked up
adjustment that we're just like, what's that?
You know, that tick tock that's going around being like, what is
something that's a scam? It's been ingrained in you that
like it's not a scam. This is one of them.
The fact that anytime we go online, we can expect to see
like probably 50% love but 50% hate.
It's not even. A custom it's like expected.
Yeah, completely. So this is obviously
particularly prevalent with TikTok because as TikTok has
democratized viral stardom. Like anyone can go viral when it
happens accidentally, but Gen. Z wanna stay anonymous, it can
lead to situations like Couch Guy that end up really harmful
to those on the receiving end. And it also really plays into
like a mob mentality. And that's what we've spoken
about quite often is that when a faceless Nameless user makes a
point, it then like validates everyone else.
It has same like harmful commentary to then like speak up
or get behind like that point of view.
And I thought it was really interesting when you brought up
the Facebook group thing that you said everyone's pop culture
commentary was really interesting and everyone was
like engaged, but it was like a pleasant environment.
That's because people have their names and their profiles
attached. And I obviously that's not
always the case with Facebook, but I feel like that is where
there's a massive gap between the way people engage on
Facebook and the way that people engage on TikTok.
And there is consequences in these communities like if you
are being like bullying or sending hate or being even just
like, you know, communicating in like a really not civil way,
like you'll just be kicked out. And so it's like if you really
value being part of this group and in this community and
whatever, like you're going to be respectful and have like
respectful debate. The same way that, like you
know, you would hope if you were standing in front of somebody
who had a difference of opinion to you, you wouldn't be
screaming in their face telling them that they should go kill
themselves. I think it is good for Gen.
Zed to take as much of their personal information offline as
possible. I think.
I just think right now the Internet is like, not a very
safe place. I think there's like a lot of
doxing going on. There's like so much cyber
bullying. And I don't know if you've seen
that meme. That's like, how do mofos get
cyber bullied? Like, just log off, bro.
But like, you also can't really get cyber bullied if people
don't know who you are 'cause they're not actually bullying
you. Yes, but.
I think that's also kind of where the problem is, is that
because people don't actually have to like stand behind their,
the messaging that they're putting out, they like, say all
this outrageous stuff that would never fly in real life like you.
It's the same, it's the same point.
It's like you wouldn't go up to somebody and say you should
drink bleach to cure COVID, you know, something like that.
But then when you're online and you don't have a name attached,
like if you believe that you can spread that message without
actually having it like attached to you.
Also, I feel like people are more likely to say that like
darkest things that they really mean.
Yes, I guess. So I guess how I'm like
approaching it in my thoughts is like in terms of Gen.
Zed's like mental health. If more people become anonymous,
like if Gen. Zed becomes more and more
anonymous and like future generations start becoming more
and more private because they see how millennials just we
absolutely just fucked everything up for ourselves.
There will be less people to attack and and I think people
will start to lead their lives more and more offline, which is
like just good in general. I actually, I think you're
right. I think that the point that you
made about the Facebook groups and how it's it's a privilege to
be a part of that community. So you have to abide by the
rules and regulations and moderation that's in place.
And I think apps like Geneva that I just wrote about, so it's
like a chat. It's basically combined the chat
functions of every other app and put it in one place.
And then you can join like Facebook group, esque groups.
So there were all these groups like I joined like Gen.
Z, girl gang and you can join like female founder group.
So it's kind of taking the premise of Facebook groups and
like kind of building a community around like a shared
interest. And that's the priority more so
even than like connecting with your friends because you're
friends, you would just like text.
So you have that Direct Line to your friends and then you have
like a moderated community that you're you feel like it's a
privilege to be a part of and is really like closely monitored as
far as the kind of things you say.
So maybe, like that's the direction of social media, that
there will be nothing in the middle where people this kind of
like trolling and misinformation and like horrible hate speech
actually like, comes to exist. Well, I was telling Sean about
be real because obviously I was doing it like, I only just got
it when we started the vacation. And then he was like, so how do
you grow a following? And I was like, you don't.
That's the point. Like, it's just your friends.
Like it's all about like connecting with people and like
maybe they will eventually roll out different like features for
that and stuff, but it reminds. Me more of like.
Snapchat where it's just like about connecting with the people
that you know or the things that you care about and whatever.
And like I do think that is 100% the future of social media.
I think it is tough because like the influencer industry is just
so big now. Like, I don't think we can ever
go backwards, but it'll be interesting to see if future
generations even download Instagram, for example, you
know, or if they just do things like be real.
It is. It does feel like a hot take,
but the all the existing influences will continue to
exist and they will like they'll live out and grow their careers
as they would as they age. But we might not be seeing many
new influences from Instagram are kind of coming through.
Like there will be kind of an age cut off of people that
decided they weren't interested in building a following on that
platform. But I think it will manifest in
different ways because it's interesting that everyone
they're doing social media or like content creator courses now
at universities and stuff like that.
And there was this mentality for a really long time that everyone
wants to be an influencer. And I think that kind of premise
has existed for long enough that they're that we're realizing
that isn't actually the case. No, I agree.
And I think Gen. Zed is too smart and just future
generations will just be too smart.
They'll see the downsides to it. I think one of the biggest
reasons why Gen. Zed is pursuing privacy is
because of the way that online culture functions at the moment.
I think that plays a much bigger role in why they are pursuing
privacy rather than to them, it's just like trying to be cool
or it's like the new trendy thing that their favorite
influencers are doing. Because if you think about it,
this kind of shift in social media and influencer culture
started happening around like 2020 and 2020 was like literally
such an influential year. And like, I know that people
talk about it, but I think it's a much like in terms of how the
online world functions and the viral space functions.
I don't think we give this one year enough credit, if that
makes sense. Like it completely changed life
online, like and it changed how regular Internet users showed up
online. It changed how we expect
influencers and celebrities to show up online because like
before 2020, like obviously cancel culture and
accountability culture and all of that existed.
But it wasn't even close to the magnitude that it is now.
And I just think that year in particular was this like perfect
storm between what happened to George Floyd and BLM, the Trump
election, obviously COVID and then TikTok blowing up at the
same time. It was like this perfect storm,
and it felt like this pressure cooker of a time where, like,
people all around the world felt like life was literally the
worst that had ever been. And then like two years later,
now we sit here and it's like things haven't gotten really any
better. Like a lot of people feel like
things have actually just kept getting worse, especially if you
live in America. So I think 2020 was like this
pivotal year where like everyone felt so completely out of
control in their lives. And we haven't really regained
like any of that control since. And like I would theorize that
this majorly seeped into how people showed up online and it
forever changed the Internet. Because if you are somebody and
like you're able to call someone out for something that you think
is wrong and you're getting like tangible results from it, where
people like, jump on board, they validate your anger, they help
you create change, whether that's like someone deleting a
video, making an apology or like ending their career.
Like that type of situation gives people back that sense of
control that we feel like we've completely lost since 2020.
And I feel like that's a sense of control that a lot of people
don't feel like they have in the external world now.
And like obviously this shift in how like regular Internet users
now engage online has had a major impact on influencers and
creators and what they are now willing to share.
Because we genuinely do not give people a lot of grace.
We rarely give anyone like the benefit of the doubt.
And there's this, this snowball effect that like one single
person taking issue with something you said or did and it
will just snowball like you said, like mob mentality in a
way that it just like never used to.
Nobody gives anybody the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Yeah, it truly is like bad for both sides.
I mean, only bad in a sense that it it's it's become so extreme,
like people have gotten meaner because they feel like their
opinion, regardless of what it is, will be validated whether
they're anonymous or not. But it's easier when they're
anonymous and it's bad for influencers because the
expectation has changed and it shifted, like you said,
basically overnight in this pressure cooker over year where
they'd grown their accounts or their followings in a completely
different social and political. Climate.
So it's it's saying that they didn't sign up for this feels
like a bit of a like Band-Aid statement, but I truly feel like
so many influencers and creators didn't sign up for the way like
how volatile the Internet is now and how enraged and exhausted
everyone is. And I think the response to
that, like we said, in most cases, is just for people to log
the fuck off, to not be online for their own mental health, for
the creators themselves, but also for us.
It's like when you as a user, like when you're looking at, you
know, say the Roe V Wade Twitter thread, like that is the most
depressing place to be. But there's also something
drawing you in that you cannot help but to continue to read and
to spiral out of control. And so it's is it not a healthy
option to like, not engage at all?
I think the pendulum is going to have to swing back at some
point. Like we really can't keep going
on with like how angry and volatile things are online.
Like it's always sounds like influencers are complaining
about like cancel culture and stuff.
But like, honestly, if you are online at all, which I'm
assuming most of you guys that listen to this podcast are like,
and if you are on like Twitter and Tiktok, like you know how
bad it is like for people with any type of platform, let alone
people without a platform, you know?
So I don't know. I think things will have to
swing back and they already are starting to like there's already
people starting to have conversations around like you
said, like logging off go touch grass.
This is not like it's real life, but it's also not.
But I think the last few years will have a like a lasting
permanent change on the Internet 100%.
Even though I do think that the pendulum will swing back and
things hopefully will kind of equalize a bit at some point.
Like I think we can't really erase how hyper aware we all are
now. Like when I hear somebody say
something in a conversation like one of my friends or something,
I immediately think about like how Twitter would take that
statement instead of like how I feel about it.
You know, it's like that's not healthy.
Like that's not good. And like a lot of people talk
about how, like they're very online, they like self-centered
or they like over contextualize things before they tweet or
before they make a statement, 'cause they don't want anything
to be taken the wrong way and things like that.
It's like that's not how conversation used to be.
And it it shouldn't. Be how it always is.
Yeah, it's been taken completely out of proportion to what a
normal it was used to be. A way to connect with people
online and like find community. Not having the same conversation
you would have with a friend, but instead you're having it
with a million screaming people. Who are angry at each other?
But no one knows why. And are often on the same side.
Oh. My God, I completely agree.
Do you have any concluding points?
I do think future generations will, as a whole, choose to be
more private for sure. For sure.
I think they've seen the mistakes that millennials made
and it's just not worth it. And that millennials that have
been successful online are embarrassing and they don't want
a bar of that. Also, like, impossible to do
that anymore, You know? It's impossible to just become
like an Instagram influencer. It's so hard to become a
YouTube. Yeah, like the Charlies and
Addison's, this tiny tier of people that did become popular
because they got on Tiktok at the right time, right place,
right time. That will not happen again until
we have the next Tiktok come along.
But even then, like, will it be received the same way?
Because this shift will be five years down the track, and people
might not be, like, ready to engage in the same way anyway.
So maybe Charlie and Addison will be the last real influences
that we've seen grow to this kind of level.
The last real creators we will see grow to this level of
influence like ever again, realistically.
Huge call. That's a huge call.
Infinite Scroll is a podcast written, produced, edited and
presented by me, Lauren Meisner for Centennial World.
Additional research and reporting this week was by
Annabelle and David. Thank you so much for listening.
I love you guys so much and I will talk to you next week.
Bye.