The the one challenge that sticks in everyone's mind, it
seemed to go everywhere. I think it went viral, was the
piano challenge. Yeah.
Talk to me about that. What?
What What was that? What was that challenge?
People still talking about that now and that was 5-6 years, six
years ago that was done. You were there, you helped me
with it. No, it was so basically carries
well strap the piano at my back and went the Garth, which is a
big hill in the area. Raised money for charity for the
Royal Bromley and Harefield Hospital Charity.
Raised a good few grand, but yeah, it was everywhere.
That was Fox News America, Men's Health, Runners World possibly
did it as well, all sorts of social media channels.
So yeah, it really, it really. Yeah, yeah.
Went everywhere that I still get people stopping me.
Oh, you know, this guy did this, This guy did that or doing
anything like that again, carrying any pianos.
So it's it's a bit of a reputation I've got now.
Yeah, it's furniture removal man, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I love the you just
said. Oh, I just chucked a piano on my
back and went up the Garth Mountain.
But how big was this piano? It wasn't a massive it was it
was a fair size piano, but it wasn't like a huge grand piano
for maybe a small, small piano. It was, you know, fully
functioning because people will stop me on the weight and they
are better doesn't work. You're taking you're taking the
insides out. So challenge them to have a go
and play it. And no one behold, it played.
I've still got the piano. Now it's just sitting there,
sitting there gathering dust. Occasionally the cats will play
on it when they when they jump on it.
What sort of weight was it? We estimated the weight to be,
was it 160 kilograms or something like that, £350 I
think something. Like that heavier weight?
That's a heavier weight. I think the, the, the media went
with £400 because when somebody phoned me up and said how much
was it, I just said, oh, according to this, it's
somewhere between 350 to 400 lbs.
And they went, OK, 400 lbs, we'll go with that.
So I don't really know how much it weighed, but it was an
awkward more than more than the weight.
It was an awkward shape. It it was a full size piano that
definitely a full size piano. Like it wasn't a tinky tongue
thing, but like and so you're talking like 160 kilograms,
which is massive. You did it surprisingly fast.
I like you. You got a you had a shift on
you. Definitely you were because
obviously, yeah, I was there supporting like you, you got,
you got into a rhythm. You just kept going.
There was very minimal breaks. Like what was the most
challenging part? Was it the terrain or because it
did get there was some dodgy ground when you're when you're
actually on that mountain or was it the weight or was it the,
the, the awkwardness of it? Like what?
What was the most difficult part of that challenge?
On the day I was very worried about dew on the grass because
it was so early and the time of year the the ground.
I went and did a check and the ground was a little bit wet, but
luckily it dried a little bit by the time we got there.
So I did get a bit nervous when we're going up thinking hang on
because it goes up. But then there's a few sections
where it kind of does did that sort of movement and they're
going down. I was worried about slipping and
thinking if I slip here, my knees going to go like, but
luckily there was no problems with that.
I think obviously the weight going up the steeper parts was
was challenging, but it was just a case of head down and just
plod for the other short, shorter strides on the harder
bits. And then when it levelled out
bigger strides and and that kind of weight when it's on your back
and supported by you, your skeleton is not actually, it's
not like you're squatting it in the gym constantly.
So you do get to have that little your legs do get to have
that little bit of a rest, almost rest when you're walking
on the flatter ground. When I was walking on the
flatter ground, but a lot of it was planning and preparation.
So any kind of issues I had, thoughts I had with regards to
the actual shape of the weights I'd ironed out beforehand.
So that was all all planned to mitigate against.
So on the day it was just a case of just getting it done.
Yeah, absolutely you did. Because obviously I supported
and I've never had this when I've gone to, when I've
supported someone on challenge or when I've done one of my
personal challenges, it's never happened.
You gave me like a 20 page manifesto.
This happens, do this. If this happens, do this.
This is what we're going to do. Your planning was absolute spot
on. How important is that to the
success of a challenge? Well, I think it's very
important, especially with something like that, when you're
dealing with potential members of the public, you're dealing
with the environment as well, and obviously yourself and, and
your safety and safety, you other people as well, people who
are supporting you, anyone who's coming to look as well.
That's very important. I think that should be the most
important thing you're looking at when it comes to a challenge
rather than just going, I'm going to do this challenge to
hell with anything else. That's that's your ego talk in
there. People could get hurt.
You could get hurt, you could damage the environment, you
could leave rubbish somewhere. What you can imagine if we got
the top of the mountain and I didn't injure myself, how would
we've got the piano down without any kind of plan?
We'd have been stuck there stranded and we may have had a
Gold Mountain rescue or something to come and help and
whiskey. We're bringing more people in.
Or we could have kept it there and littered the mountain, which
I, I didn't really didn't want to do.
But that comes down to a challenge I tried previously
where I've had no planning whatsoever, just everything went
wrong and I was, it was a horrible challenge.
I did Pentavan with 200 lbs followed by 1000 pull ups and at
the start I think I ran 10 miles or something with 35 lbs
something like that. It was it was a triple
challenge. I call.
It I want to know how did it all go wrong for?
You the wrong equipment, the wrong clothes.
So like I was knackered before I even went there.
Hand prepped my meals. There's little things like that
like because I knew what I was going to be doing, but I just
went into initially I started off doing this run with 3545
lbs. I can't remember what it was, 10
miles. I think it was did that I was
knackered. But then instead of doing a
having a proper meal, I think I just had a bowl of rice because
I because I knew I had to get straight to Penevan to do all
these other challenges. I wanted to keep there, get
there in the daytime, drove the Penevan did that one.
My bag was barely even packed. I just chucked every all these
dumbbells in went water bottle exploded, didn't have any food
in there. I didn't have any clothes.
I think I just had what I was wearing, which was like a tank
top and a pair of trousers. So I got to the top then and
freezing really cold, even though it was, it was a warm
time of year. But because I was sweating on
the way up and then having to take rests and stopping, I'd
stop for a couple of minutes and then you'd start getting cold.
And it can affect your performance and obviously your
safety as well. But so that look, I've got to
keep going again now. So I wasn't getting the rest I
needed coming back back down. Then was was was hard work as
well. And then I got straight home and
instead of having food, I think, and another bowl of rice, and
then I started cracking on with the pull ups and I was just,
yeah, in a, in a bad way. 1000 pull ups Like where did this
challenge come from? It came back to when I was on
YouTube and I started doing challenges and just little
challenges usually like military fitness challenges or just like
a mountain carrying 50 lbs or whatever, 120 lbs I think it
was. And I used to put posts up
saying, oh, what shall I do next?
And I, and I would put like a poll sort of thing.
So I'd put like one or two or three challenges on there and
then say, what do you want to see me do next?
And then the viewers would vote and then I'd go with the winner.
And then somebody just said in the comments, his name was the
kettle bells. What do 345678 or something like
that. I remember it.
He, he, he said, do all three of them back the back.
And I was like, you were laughing off And I was like,
yeah, laughed it off. And I went in the shower when I
was in the shower then and I thought, oh, fuck it, go on,
let's do it. So I was like literally the day
after or something, or maybe a couple days later, I want my
next day off. I, I went and did that, that
challenge. What was quite funny, I just
started a new job as well as a like a manager in a gym or a
supervisor in a gym. And it was like the second day
starting in this new job, I'd done this challenge and I came
back, I was really sore, really stiff when everyone was looking
at me thinking, who's this new instructor?
Like you don't even flip me more.
Walking around like Steptoe, that old man, like I.
Knew me that nobody knew what sort of things I did or or
whatever. I just saw this guy who just
really saw. I can't move.
You also pulled a car a marathon distance.
Was that your first big one? My.
First ever marathon. That was only ever marathon from
the car. Yeah, that was my first big one,
should we say. That was the first one where I
had external support, I had media attention, I was raising
money for charity. The other one I mentioned, the
triple challenge, I did raise money for charity there as well
actually, but it was very low level.
Nobody really interested in it. Nobody supported me or anything
during that. But then the Car 1, I had people
helping me. We managed to hire a track.
Well, they kindly lent us the track for 24 hours, which was
great. And I just had a 24 hours to
complete it. And yeah, it was an amazing day
that was, to be fair, that was a really good day.
How hard was it? It was.
It had hard. Moments it it pulling a car, it
just depends entirely on one, the terrain and two, who's
steering it because if they're not steering it properly behind
you and they're going off the side slightly or your force is
trying to pull out the car in a different direction, You just
want to make sure you line up the wheels.
Wheels are following you. But if there's a tiny deviation
from it, you're trying to pull the car that way because the car
just can only go wherever the wheels are pointing.
So that makes a huge difference. Like I had people behind me in
the car and they were swapping over and changing and you some
of them were clearly better than than others, able to keep the
steel in the right place, particularly when it got dark
because they couldn't really see me.
So they're trying to follow where I'm going, but they can't
see me. So that's one major challenge.
With little things like that, we put strain on the body and turns
and bends and up hills. It's depending on the gradient
of the train. If it's flat, it's.
To be fair, it's quite easy to pull a car on a flat.
When you start pulling on inclines when you're fatigued,
then it becomes a lot more challenging.
And and this lead onto then the you pulled a truck.
Oh yeah, horrible truck. That's it.
Would you say this? Was the hardest one, Yeah, that
was just something else. So yeah.
Explain what the the challenge was for that one.
So there was a track in England. It's just one like straight.
I think it's 2 kilometre at the top, man.
I don't think it's like 2 kilometres, something like that.
Just pull it for that, pull the distance of that, that airfield.
There's all the airfield, there's a pull it for the
distance of that. It's perfectly flat.
Well, there's a slight dip in it, but it's pretty much flat.
Yeah, but when you pull in the truck, you notice that if there
is a slight inclined if there like you might be able to see it
by eye. The first half was a lot more
difficult in the second-half because it kind of did go down a
little bit. But also as well the tarmac is
different. Well, the guy was explaining to
me the different type of tarmac on there and he was like that
type of tarmac. It's got like 10 times more grip
than that bit has. So it it was I think they they
changed all like motorways got more grip on them than say like
standard roads and stuff. Like it was a standard in what
they do or not an expert on it, but this is what the guy was
telling me. So you could actually feel a
difference when you change to the different types of tarmac
with in terms of your traction. Yeah, absolutely.
So when you if to look at this place, you probably think that's
a flat straight. Yeah.
When you pull in the truck, you notice every single tiny little
detail, whether it's the grip, whether it's the incline, how
heavy was this truck? I, I don't actually know it, it
was in a gross weight of 18 tonnes, but the last one, it's
fully laden. I don't think it's fully laden.
So I, I don't know. I can't, I don't really estimate
how heavy it was. I don't think it was fully
laden. So I'm not going to say around I
was doing 18 tonnes. That's what they're doing in
like World's Strongest Man. So like, it definitely wasn't
that, but it was, it was hard to fall.
It was, it was very taxing on on my body, my heart more than
anything. That was where I felt I
struggled afterwards was my muscles weren't obviously sore,
but like it was weeks and weeks and weeks of recovery after that
where I I struggled to walk, knocked on, muscles were sore,
but just my body was just so fatigued.
Just completely depleted of energy and like you gave, must
have given it all. Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah. So like, you know, I was, yeah.
I just think I just put so much strain on my heart and my energy
systems, my central nervous system, like going for a walk,
I'll just be out of breath. The thing I found was beneficial
was going in a pool and just walking back and forth.
And there was such a rejuvenating experience doing
that because the hydrostatic pressure of the water makes it
easier on, on your, on your heart and your, your body and
your circulation, circulation system.
Jesus, so you put your bloody body through the ringer for
this. How?
How was it different then to the the carpool?
Because the carpool is is it's relatively easy.
So it's it's almost like going for a jog, shall we say with
that. It's in terms of how how
difficult it is apart from the hills and things like that, in
which case you haven't really kind of pull and push.
Whereas with the track it was just constantly Max effort,
constantly Max effort all the time.
So even with the car, you can kind of coast a little bit
almost and you still point, you still got a resistance, but
you're not constantly trying to have to do a Max effort every
step. Whereas with the truck you Max
effort every step and. When you say Max effort, like,
what does that look like? What you?
Is that because you're trying to get it off the ground?
If you don't, it'll just stop. That's the simple it'll just
stop behind you. It'll just, you can't.
And then you can't keep pulling, which because you've used up
your energies trying to get him moving, your body just can't.
Obviously once it gets moving out a little bit, you've got
that momentum behind it. Not like the car, the car's got
a lot more momentum behind it because the speeds you're
pulling it and the weight of it and the friction and all that as
well. But you've constantly got to
make sure you're pushing 100% effort.
So it's purely, you know, you really give it everything.
It's almost like a one Rep Max every single time your leg.
I'm just trying to keep keep pushing, pushing, pushing,
pushing. Yeah.
So when you're doing this jog, you're effectively you're in the
anaerobic, you're you're putting everything in.
It's like a a constant Sprint session, whereas the car pulls
more of a a jog as as you said. Yeah, I guess.
But that's why we did it. We did it in very short stages.
So it was a poll followed by a long rest, followed by a poll
for by a long rest. So it wasn't continuous like the
car. With the car we kept going for
period, long periods of time. But to the truck pole, it was
seconds, probably maybe 30 seconds.
I, I don't know before we'd have to stop and take a break.
Well, you mentioned the strain on your heart.
How, how like what were you feeling in that in that time?
Then how did you know? Like what?
What were you feeling at? This point, well, what I thought
I was going to have a heart attack because I had to, I had
to sit down. I was being sick and everything
and I was sweating and it was, it wasn't good.
Yeah, once I threw up, I was fine actually, but it was maybe
in the breakfast repeating on me, I don't know, but I had to
go to the flipping hedge and just screw it up.
They didn't catch it on camera wishing they filmed it.
I was like, get the camera out. He's going to be filming this
thing. Like I don't.
It's also Bosies. People only ever film or like I
seen Someone Like You can film me.
They only ever film the good bits and they film the bits of
successes and then when you start being sick in a corner,
they don't know. We don't People see that, but
you want people to see it because that's what happens in
in these things. Not that I recommend people do
stuff like that, but you want people to see that it is hard,
it is taxing and and this is what you're going through.
Pull the camera. So I've got you there with the
camera. Film it.
I don't want it in the the thing afterwards.
I'll edit it out. So we just, we just want you
want to get that footage. But yeah, it was.
Yeah, it was just hard. I think most people when they
get to the point where they think they're having a heart
attack, Max, they would probably consider finishing.
Did that have a like call it quits?
Did that cross your mind and. Hindsight probably should have
done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think you learn from every single, I've learned from every
single challenge I've done. And I think I learned from that
one. Like I think that was a bit too
bit too much. And I think we were as being
there obviously different. I've got a kid and that so it's
it's back then we didn't have a kid.
So I think things things are probably just changing.
But back then you already wanted to do it.
I was really focused on it, but I just kind of sat down on the
floor, just let my body recover. And then when I'd be sick, when
I sat, sat back down the floor again and I felt all right then.
Yeah, it's sort of, I suppose it just gets it out of here, like
maybe you hit a peak and then it sort of plateaus and then dips
and you just get through that. Yeah.
And then I think you just find ways as well.
Your body finds ways to just kind of just crack on and find
the most efficient way of doing things and, and efficient
systems and and things like that.
So yeah, once that was over, it was didn't feel too bad.
So how is because I suppose you'd you'd bracket these types
of challenges as strength endurance, right?
Yeah. What do you call it?
Call it that. So how would strength endurance
be different to just being fit and strong?
But being fit and strong is is why I say Trent and Jersey, if
you're fit, you should be have endurance as well.
But I think it's different to say powerlifting or or things
like that where you focus on the one Rep, one repetition of a,
you know, in a specific way. Whereas with the strength
endurance type stuff, you're doing heavy things, heavy ish
things we say, for longer periods of time.
Whereas, you know, strength sports generally is heavy things
for very short periods of time. Yeah.
And how do you train? How, how do you train for these
things then like what, what did your training look like?
So with. With all that I was, I was just
trying to focus on replicating it as best I could and just
practicing that movement. So.
So with the carpool for instance, I was didn't give
myself much time to train for the carpool, but if I trained
now, I wanted to do it now, I'd obviously give myself a lot more
time to do it. I think I trained for like 2
weeks or something, but I had a base fitness anyway.
But for those two weeks, all I was doing was pulling the car
every day. So is.
That what you're doing, you're going out like, yeah, yeah.
Two weeks, I think it was 13 sessions, 13 days straight.
I just pulled the car because I booked the track.
I was trying, I was trying hardest to find the track when I
had like this idea in my head and in my head I was thinking,
oh, you know, we six months down the line I'll have it booked.
But I booked it. And then Bruntingthorpe, which
was the track that I booked, they said, Oh yeah, the only
thing we can do is this, you know, two weeks time on a
Saturday, I think it was, I could have it for the 24 hour
period. And I was like, ah, fuck, it was
like 2 weeks time. I can't train for this.
Two weeks, just about two weeks, then 13 days pulling the car and
learning from, from things becoming more efficient.
And I was so much better after those 13 days just pulling the
car than I was at day one. You know, I could barely pull it
in a mile on the first day because things weren't, you
know, I weren't, wasn't timing things efficiently.
The people steering it weren't getting efficient at either.
They were struggling on corners and bends and speed bumps and
things like that. So but it was great.
We went back to that same car park where we tried it in
towards the end and absolutely pissed it.
After a few training sessions, things that speed bumps, things
at the inclines in the corners, we nailed the technique and it
was just a lot easier then. Yeah, I suppose once you've
learned the the, the the techniques and what you're doing
and you understand, you can go into it already prepared already
to do it. Yeah, yeah.
So your body responds to things. So it's just specific laws and
what and one of them is a specific adaptations to impose
demand. So it whatever your body does,
what you do, your body get used to it.
So if you get used, if you're doing a lot of rucking, you're
going to go to rucking. If you do a lot of weight
lifting, you're going to get good at weight lifting, you're
going to get good at running, you're going to get good at
running. And it depends on different what
type of zones you're in. So for example, if you're doing
slow run in, you'll get good at slow run in.
If you do sprints all the time, you'll get getting better
sprints, but not necessarily better at other things which
aren't in in what you're training.
So it is exactly the same as that when you break it down.
It is just practicing what you want to do and just practicing
it. So how do you train normally
then? Like so outside of challenges?
So I assume when you're doing a challenge, you go all in, right?
You've got to focus on this challenge.
So you're, you're, you're preparing your body for that
specific challenge without the challenges.
What does your training look like day-to-day?
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via the link down below. Now let's get back to the
episode. Training changes all the time
now, but back then when we look at the challenges was mainly
weight training with a bodybuilding type style of
training. No, it's not the best thing to
do if you're doing endurance training and things like that.
But I still do things like farmers walks and sled pushes,
sled poles and things like that. So it's more of a kind of hybrid
approach to to bodybuilding than just strict, you know, isolation
machines and things like that. I did that as well, but mainly
because I like that I like the physique, like the size and the
strength, but also as well it was easy to kind of move off and
do other things using that as a base and then go back to that if
I wanted to. Now I'm trying to be a little
bit more athletic with how I'm training and trying to focus on
different qualities, speed, explosiveness and things like
that. So I only do 2 strength training
sessions a week. That's weight training, 1 upper
body, 1 lower body. Do you try and focus on the
compound movements? Movements when I'm moving my
body, pushing things, pulling things, stuff like that and
different planes of movement rather than just up and down to
lateral movement as well. And then I'll do sprints,
plyometrics, jumps, zone 2 rucking.
So I'll put the weight your vest on and keep keep the steadiest
pace, make sure I'm nasal breathing.
So I'm not using the rooking as the kind of main event like I
used to use it was, you know, four or five years ago, I'd be
strapping 100 and you know, 100 plus kilogram rucksack on my
back and just walking up the biggest hill I could find.
That was my training. That was my heavy.
Training, whereas now I don't do that for my heavy training.
I do heavyweight training with a with a specific Rep range,
specific goals or heavy sandbag training.
But they are separate sessions. So the sandbag training will be
different to the OR the heavy barrel training will be
different to the heavy strength training.
So they're kind of like a specialist type type of training
and, and then I'll, I'll try and build it all up.
So I'm training concurrent systems concurrently throughout
the week, but also try to manage it and do a wave system as well.
So I'll build it up over 3 weeks and then have a a period of
restoration then as well after that for super conversation
where your body will you get your fatigued at the end of your
three weeks, but then your body will adapt or should adapt and
then come back stronger then after the break.
And how many times a week are you training?
Probably about four times per week usually.
Yeah. So it's it's not like people
would assume you're probably doing it seven days a week,
maybe with double sessions as well, but it's just four times a
week. That's enough.
Well, I'm very active, so everything that everyone is
different. I'm very active and a lot like
on my days off, if I'm working, I could be lifting logs.
I could be, you see me hitting the logs on the sledge with the
yaks. Yeah, I'm doing a lot of that.
Sometimes I do a lot of moving trees, cutting down trees and
stuff like that or moving things round.
That is not draining. That is just day-to-day stuff.
Sometimes make it look when I'm draining, but it's not draining,
but also as well my, my job's quite active as well.
So like I'm like some days I might have to move beer kegs and
things like that, beer barrels, boxes and stuff like that.
So I've got to add it all in. And then also I've got a little
kid as well, so I'm running around after him as well,
carrying him and stuff like that.
So it's, I'm not just on my days off sitting down in a, in a
chair doing, you know, office work or things like that.
So that if I was doing that, I'd have to do more.
I'd have to do walks in the, in the morning or evening or zone
two more, but walking up with zone 2 cardio or more strength
training or something or more mobility.
So it's it's four days a week of that, but then I'm doing other
stuff. So I've got to contribute it all
together in terms of stress on the body.
So I look at everything, I try and look at everything and try
and think of everything as stresses, external stresses that
can affect the body and the central nervous system.
Because at the end of the day, doing too much or just you know,
you're not going to your body's knackered, your central nervous
system is not recovering, then you're not going to get any
better. You're just going to end up ill.
You're just going to dig yourself in a hole in the ground
basically. And it's you're not going to be
any fitter or stronger, whereas if you want to be more, have
more speed, more power and explosiveness, you cannot do
that if your central nervous system is fatigued.
I find that, yeah, if I do a Sprint session on a Friday, when
I'm going into my Zone 2 run on the the Saturday, I'm dead.
Like just because it's because the Sprint session is hard,
right? It it taxes your body.
And I suppose that's what you're saying, if you're doing these
explosive power movements, it's, it's going to take a lot out of
you, right? Yeah, yeah.
And but doing the zone 2 afterwards would be good.
It is good to do afterwards because that would help your
body recover and help flush out all the all the toxins and crap
and actually help you recover even though it is challenging.
If if you were doing, you know, heavyweights the next day, that
would be a stupid programming. But because you're doing the
zone 2 after the the intensity that is sensible programming.
I. Suppose it's like an active
rest, then I guess yeah. Yeah, as long as you're not
going above Zone 2, as long as you're staying in a strict zone
2:00, then that's intelligent programming.
What's your what's your aim things then with all this
training? What, what are you trying to
build? What's, what sort of how is
your, what's your philosophy on fitness now is are you trying to
stay well-rounded for all disciplines or you know what,
what are you trying to achieve with how you program your
training? Just be well-rounded really.
There's areas I've neglected over the years, things like
explosiveness, speed and endurance as well, I suppose
actually, but that's endurance. Probably the lowest in my kind
of order at the moment, actually say that.
But at the moment where I am in my training, because I try and
look at it as a kind of annual kind of thing, I'm in a kind of
low. I'm doing a lot more Zone 2
stuff now as recovery. I'm not doing much
explosiveness. I'm not doing much strength work
because I'm in a restoration period at the moment, which will
last a few weeks. So actually at the moment now I
am doing a lot more endurance and just don't do gentle stuff
to try and recover. But as the programme as a whole,
my main goals aren't to be aren't to have endurance,
endurance and zone 2 I'm doing is to help build a base to then
help build all the other athletic qualities on top of
that. So the idea is then I'm going to
be able to recover better from doing more explosive movements,
as, you know, the year progresses.
You're a former military man, yeah, as well.
So, you know, I mean, you've probably heard of the term
hybrid athlete, right? Yeah, yeah, military's probably
like the original hybrid athlete, right?
They, they, they train across multiple disciplines.
Yeah. Because you've got your power
movements where they're getting you doing your squats and your
bench presses and your pull ups. You'll have to correct me if I'm
getting this wrong as well, But then you've got sort of circuit
based training as well. So you're getting sort of your,
your, your strength and fitness up as well.
And and then there's your sprints and endurance running.
It's like it. They're ticking all boxes.
They're creating this complete athlete.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's, there's more.
So on the endurance spec when you start getting towards power
explosiveness things, there's a little bit of that, but it's
it's not so much a lot of it is, is the endurance.
But when you look at what they do, they you've got a run around
camp all the time. You're not a walk around camp,
you've got to run around. So you're constantly running,
constantly rocking. So the amount of Zone 2 that's
being done really all the time in the background is, is
probably incredible. So the mitochondria that's being
built, that was probably insane. Then the circuits themselves
were intense. Everything had to be 100%.
You know, you couldn't be dawdling, you couldn't be
slowing down. You couldn't be, you know,
dipping out in your face if you were trying to do that.
So it was, you know, it was intense and but for a reason.
Well, but the the test, because one of the fitness tests, one of
the entry fitness tests was the two point 4K miles for 2.4 K for
time and the times that you said that you got down to were
sickening. Was it like under 8 minutes?
Yeah, most people, it was the fit people could do it in under
8 minutes. That's not incredible.
Well, that wasn't a kind of people didn't get it wasn't that
test would come along and people will be like it's fun.
We could do the test and back on you this level we were at, it
was just a it was a walk in the park almost.
It was a laugh. It'd be a competition.
You'd race the person next to you and you just you just get
again. You wouldn't even care about
your times really. Yeah, but that's like, because I
think my like to put it into perspective, I think if I went
out and did it now, I'd probably get somewhere between 10 1/2 to
11 minutes. So and to get it down to 8
minutes is incredible. How do they train you for that?
Like how, how, how do you, how do you train to get a time like
that? Well, you want to look at the
military is they're training for soldiers, they're training for
combat really. And they, and those tests are
just a test that they are of a certain standard.
So the training they're doing is not necessarily look, we're
training for this 2 1/2 mile, 2.4 kilometre test.
We're training for you to be soldiers.
And the way we check if your cardio fat is going to fitness
is we'll get you to do a bleep test.
We'll get you to do this, this test.
So you're never thinking, oh, I've got to do this 1.5 mile run
test. You could probably develop a
training program specifically for that 1.5 mile test which
would actually get you back other than what the Marines are
doing. But with the Marines they also
need, you've got to be able to do pull ups.
You've also got to be able to Seps.
You've also got to be able to ruck with with weight as well.
You've also got to be able to do your job at the end of it, which
was the very big thing was that during your training sessions,
you run speed marches, which is often done with weight.
You'd often get to the end of that.
And then they'd also have you doing finance carries, they'd
have you doing battle drills, combat drills, because they
would say, well, when you get to the end point of this, this run,
you're not, you know, that's what you've got to do your job.
So you'll start your job starts then when your fitness test
finishes. So you've always got to have
that bit in reserve. So is is that kind of ability to
always, always be pushing you? You never get in that rest, so
when you do your run you've always got to be up before them
afterwards. Right.
So what, what about that training?
What is it about that training that enables you to so you're
not focusing on the 1 1/2 mile of time in the training, but
what is it about the training that enables you to get fit
enough to put those times in when you get there?
But if you look at it on a basic level, to get good at 1.5 mile
tests, you need to have good, a good aerobic, aerobic base, But
it's not quite a slow jog. It's a fast pace, isn't it?
So you'll be looking at doing things like tempo runs and
things like that. You're running at a very fast
pace where you can just, you know, you breathe in heavily,
but you're pushing yourself. So if you look at how the
military will train you, so like I said before, you've doing a
lot of running around the camp all the time.
You're always running around the camp.
So you're constantly running around the camp, you're
constantly doing rocking with yon pin, as we called it, with a
burgund on. So that's, you know, zone 2 is
kind of cardio all that type was and you're doing just to get
scheduled runs in the lanes and things like that.
Five mile runs, Six Mile runs or whatever through the lanes two
or three times per week or maybe twice per week.
Once or twice per week, Sorry, not two or three times a week.
Don't do it that much. So you've got a massive aerobic
base there, but if you think about it before that, before you
even went into the military, you've had to have built up that
anyway. So you're already at high
standard fit before you get there.
So they just build on that, that zone 2 aerobic base.
They build a ball of mitochondria.
They build up your heart, the stroke volume of your heart and
your efficiency of your heart and your lungs to use that.
But then of course, while you do circuits, high intensity
circuits, you're doing your rocking, your weight, did your
runs, bottom field tests and things like that.
So all of these type of things which involve sprints, they
involve finals carries, they involve high, not just short
sprints, but you're doing 800 metre, 1 kilometre sprints as
well, repeatedly repeated sprints.
So all that builds up to a a body that is able to to get
those times. Yeah.
So it's it's almost like a mixture then, isn't it?
It's you're hitting all like like these hybrid athletes, like
like everything. You're hitting all these bases,
which creates this body that is able to perform under under
intense tests like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is it is different tangent now what's the biggest load of
nonsense you see in fitness right now There's.
A lot of it. I'm sure, yeah, because you
mentioned a few inside before we came on.
I was just I was wondering what like what are people getting
wrong? What, what?
What are people seeing online that is just it's it's a load of
nonsense. One of the things I see a lot of
online these days is personal trainers, influencers telling me
what my goals are. That really pisses me off.
And I know I probably just contracted myself there because
I just said I'm watching these other people in the gym, but
they're saying, oh, you're not losing weight because of this,
your testosterone is low because of this, you're all this stuff.
And it's really pissing me off. That testosterone, that TRT
thing, you encouraging people that go on takes testosterone
injections and things like that. I just, that's all I need to get
at the moment. Your testosterone's low.
You've got to go and take these injections.
How would you know my testosterone's low?
Have you done the test? You, you don't even know me yet.
Like, I'm not even interested in anything like that.
I, I'm perfectly healthy. I don't think my TRT, my
testosterone's low. But I every day I get these
these things popping up my feet telling me it's low and telling
me all I need to do is go and get these injections for the
rest of my life. Where does this come from?
Because I've reached a certain age and the algorithm's pushing
all this crap. Yeah.
And then I wonder then how many people are actually going ahead
and doing that and they're looking after their diets
beforehand, they're looking after their sleep beforehand, or
they just go straight to these doctors and then tell them
you've got low tests, here's a job.
Max, I'll tell you exactly why they do it, as you said, because
once you go on the TRT, it is for life.
It is for life. And as a business, if you're
making £100 a month on average of selling someone testosterone
and you lock them in for life, that one person is going to work
is going to be worth to your company 10s of thousands of
pounds as a lifetime value. That is.
That's exactly why they're trying to get people on it.
It is a massive subscription based marketing initiative.
But with people's health though, and it's.
And it's people's health because this is the thing that, so I've
done it. I've done the tests because I,
I've seen the ads and I was like, oh, right.
Oh, yeah, maybe my test is low. Oh, I wouldn't mind a bit of
test because, you know, maybe I'll get a bit of definition as
well, like, and I don't have to do anything like, you know, you
get suckered in. I never went through it.
I just did the tests and this is what they're like, right?
So I did my first Test. It was a finger prick, came back
slightly low, not low low, just slightly.
Then they go, OK, you qualify for the full blood test.
I went in and I did the full blood test.
They come back and they say it's not low, right?
But because your first one was low.
So if you just do another finger prick test and that comes back
low, then you'll qualify. They're so eager to get you
signed up on that contract because then as a person, you're
going to be worth 10s of thousands of pounds to that
company as a lifetime customer. And they're not.
This is the thing. Sometimes maybe your test is
low, but going on TRT is the last resort.
There's going to be lifestyle choices that you could make that
could get you back to where you need to be.
And of course it dips as you get.
Older as well. It dips throughout the day.
It dips it. This is the thing because they
said to me when I did the test, they were like, oh, it could
have just been the time of day or maybe you ate or something
like that. It could have been the time of
day. It's constantly changing
throughout the time of the day. It's, it's in a way it is, I see
it's quite, quite criminal. But I know they're going to be
helping some people, some people may be low and maybe it's really
affecting how they, they're living their lives and maybe
they have addressed everything. And yeah.
And then you could perhaps look at TRT.
I'm not going to dispute when you've gone through all that and
a medical doctor has said to them, here's a treatment plan or
whatever. Like I'm not going to dispute
anything a doctor said and tell people to change their lives or
whatever because that's I'm not qualified to do that.
But I just don't like I was thrown in your face and like you
said, there's other lifestyle changes that could contribute
towards that. Just having more sleep, like I
read somewhere before, having less than six hours sleep
consistently, your testosterone, testosterone levels are going to
completely tank. So changing that up consistently
over time. But if it's taken you years and
years and years of doing that, it's not going to suddenly over
one good night's sleep. You know, your testosterone
levels are like suddenly shoot up through the roof, are they?
It takes time. It's just like we're training.
If you've not looked after yourself for 20 years and you go
join a gym, it's going to take a long time to reset what's
happened there for you to start seeing results and see the
markets improve on your health. But it will happen, it just
takes a little bit longer depending on how resident you've
been before and what state you are in before you begin.
Yeah, absolutely. Just another note on, it's like,
so when, when you're going through the process of looking
at the TRT treatment, they, they, they also, they, they
don't really tell you the risks. They do, but they don't really
explain to you like how severe they are.
Because it's once you've been on TRT for two years, around 2
years, around the two year mark, your body stops producing TRT
naturally and that's when they've got you for life.
Within that 2, two years, you've got a chance to come off and get
it, get it back, you know, kick start your body again.
Also, the fact that your balls shrink, you could become
infertile. And what's this all because
like, because people feel maybe a bit tired or a bit down and
they think that, you know, TRT is going to be sold as this like
this magic cure. It could just be that you're not
getting enough sleep. But as you said, or maybe you're
in tradition is a bit out like, or or maybe you're just getting
older. You know, it's, it's I'm glad
you brought that up. Actually, I've never actually
thought about that. But the TRT is, yeah, I see it
as a bit, yes, it's going to work for some people, but I
think the the large majority you can sort of fix it yourself.
Well, as you see in the comments, all these people,
yeah. Yeah.
You know, I'm interested, I'm interested, all this sort of
thing. And it's just like, well, do all
these people really need it? I don't know.
Course you're interested, especially as a matter what man
I can put them on a bit of muscle.
I can feel a bit good course you're going to be interested
and that's what they're selling you is the dream and look, if
people found value in it fantastic great.
You know, good for you, but I I it I I'm not a complete believer
in it myself like, but I. I don't know.
I just, I just think that a lot of things can be resolved from
your diet and what you're doing. And I don't think everyone has
crossed every single box that they can that they say they
have. People's diet is never as clean
as what they think. They're not training.
If they're not sleeping, they're not resting.
You can we talk about training? You can do too much training and
I can tank it anyway. You can be over trained.
You can be so tired because you're training all the time and
you've got other stresses involved in your life.
You'd be working shift patterns and things like that.
So it's I think it's a bigger picture.
Yeah, you really got to assess it.
I want to touch on the fact that you applied for Gladiators.
You did apply, yeah, Yeah. Yeah, they've really missed a
trick because you would have been wicked on there, like.
Yeah, it was, it was something I wanted to do as a kid.
That was great. And then it popped up again in
2000 and 8:00-ish. I remember I was in the Marines
at the time and it was actually a Marine on there from our
units. He was actually on there.
So I thought I missed, I missed that.
And he would have been good to look at something like that.
But then when it came about again, I thought, oh, do you
know what? I'll apply for that or whatever,
which is good, you know, help me with my, with the training I was
doing. Like I said earlier, I'm trying
to be a bit more complete, a bit more rounded, a bit more
athletics. You say, I'll go hand in hand
with with with something like that, some kind of show like
that. But alas.
So I had a death in the family. They they did, they did phone me
up after I'd applied and said, you want to come along to these
tryouts. And but the last it was the Dana
might. I had a funeral to attend.
And so I said, like, I've got to go to that funeral, and I didn't
miss that. Yeah, a life primary.
You you can't, you couldn't not miss that.
But like I remember your promo videos.
They were. They were awesome.
Yeah, they were awesome. People need to go and check them
out, but I'm interested. So if you were a gladiator, what
would your name have been? I, I, I, I was talking to the
misses about this, I think. Do we have a look?
It was a gladiator or a contender, I don't know.
But if you were a gladiator, you they must you must have thought
of a name or something. Oh no, I don't know.
That's what mood I'm in, Really. You think about your names.
Can't believe like that. I mean the juggernaut.
Juggernaut, one of that wouldn't make sense.
A lot of guys bigger than me doing it, so I think.
Yeah, but they ain't pulling juggernaut trucks like you know,
you, you've got that, You've got that or the the grit, something
like that. Yeah, or the gritter.
Because it wasn't that the trucks that you pulled.
I think it. Was a gritter or something like
that one, yeah. The gritter.
There we are, Max. I mean, would you go on as a
contestant? You could still do that now,
right At some point. Yeah, I think, I think they've
closed it for this for next year.
The applications, I did see them, they were advertising
again. Maybe, maybe in the future,
we'll see what happens since he was around the corner.
With the Speaking of the future, what's next for Max?
Like what's coming up? If you've got anything, anything
planned, are you taking it easier as a concentrate on
family? What?
What is next for Max? I think it's just family at the
moment. Focus on family, keep yourself
from a decent standard of fitness.
Make sure I'm capable, physically capable doing things
rather than just being one-dimensional like I said in
the past, fit across all areas, be able to keep up with all my
own in any kind of in any arena, any kind of different type of
fitness discipline. And then obviously when my my
kid has a sports day, 100 dad, 100 dad, 100m race, make sure
I'm ready for that. Day so this whole hour
conversation we've been talking about it.
It's all for that race, right? I wouldn't.
Want to? I wouldn't want to let myself
down. Will we see a comeback to the
challenges, do you think? Maybe.
Maybe I have ideas. I've got a couple of things in
mind maybe, but it's not, it's not a priority at the moment.
Not a priority, no. Nice.
My training is a very fine line at the moment with everything
I'm doing. We'll look at everything across
the board for me to be able to train and achieve what I want to
achieve through my training, to add something into the mix
that's different to that. I could derail things at the
moment. Like I'm really trying to think
of everything. I've got everything locked down
in the book when I'm doing everything, but maybe I've got
an idea there's something I might do, but I don't know if I
will do it. Any clues?
I'm starting to enjoy this on object lifting type stuff at the
moment, so I'm just playing around with that.
So we'd probably involve something carrying something
right? But not on a strap.
You know, I'd like to, I'd like to carry things now in my arms
or over the shoulder, things like that.
So I think this adds a different element to it.
I look forward to it like I look forward to it.
Let's let's plug your books, which ones which give it a
little explanation and show them to the camera.
There's the camera there, right? OK, so let's see Commando runner
there. And the whole point about this
book is we've talked about the 2.4 kilometre test actually it's
basically to get the better at running from to complete those
sort of tests. Not an extreme endurance, but
not like ultra marathons, things like that.
I think it could quite benefit somebody who was interested in
doing that. They don't have a base or
whatever, but it is a base on how to get fit, get stronger and
better a run and get your cardiovascular up for that one.
Because it's not just for the military, for military people,
is it? Like I tell you, who'd really
benefit from something like that?
Is High Rock people now? Yeah, They.
Probably would actually. It's high rock.
It's a lot of a lot of running, isn't it?
And that has got the, the strength exercise as well as a
military theme in terms of how we're doing it and how we're
going through it. But it's, even though it's
called Commando run it, it's based on stuff I did in the
Marines with the running I did and the training I did in the
Marines and what I learnt from that and obviously subsequently
as well. So that is very much a kind of
endurance running, running focus book.
And then we've got this one here, which is challenge what
you think, believe what is possible.
And this is just collection of short stories regarding all the
challenges I've done over the years.
There's a few military stories in there, this talking about all
the piano challenge, talked about the 100 kilometers
carrying 100 kilograms challenge, the piano challenge,
the carp marathon. That's all in there.
Build up to it while I did it, anything that happened along the
way and also some practical tips on how to overcome challenges
and things. Again, not not just not just
physical challenges, but also mental challenges and
difficulties that that happen along the way as well.
Just through some short stories. I love it.
And where can people follow you? I'm on YouTube, Muscle World,
Instagram as Muscle World as well and those books can be
bought on Amazon. Cracking Max appreciate you man.
Pleasure. Thanks so much for.
Having me on here, Thank you very much.
Thank you. Congratulations.
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