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Joey Jones What is the thing 
people obsess about when it 

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comes to fitness and changing 
their body that matters the 

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least? 
I think it's, it comes down to 

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people are trying to get those 
quick results. 

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I think people sometimes forget 
that, you know, fitness is a 

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journey. 
It's not a kind of short, quick 

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destination that you can get to.
You want you want to get to a 

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point where it becomes part of 
your life. 

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You know, you know, you see a 
lot of these like 8 week 

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programs to get shredded and 12 
week programs to be the best 

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shape of your life. 
And then, but that doesn't 

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account for, you know, time 
after that. 

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You know, you do these programs 
and then you're like, right, 

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what do I do now? 
And then you end up putting the 

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weight back on and then you just
go in this vicious cycle of 

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achieving something and then 
going back to where you were. 

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And then, you know, you're just 
constantly going through that 

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cycle of achievement and then 
being upset with yourself that 

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you've compacted with the person
you trying to escape. 

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So I think it's I think it's 
what we need to get into the 

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habit of doing is just finding a
way of just being consistent and

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making it a part of your part of
your DNA, part of your, your 

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life and something that can be 
sustainable for for the rest of 

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your life as opposed to 
something that's like a short 

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fix. 
So yeah, probably that is the 

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primary one. 
In terms of say goals, then, 

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because it sounds like you, it's
good to have a goal, right? 

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It keeps you motivated. 
You've got something to aim for.

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But as you say, once you've hit 
that goal, there's, there is a 

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drop off. 
How, how do you combat that? 

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How do you get? 
How do you get over that 

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problem? 
I think it's good to have kind 

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of long term goals, something in
mind, you know, that might be 

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like, I want to lose 10 kilos, 
but what happens when you don't 

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hit that 10 kilos? 
You know, does that immediately 

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just make you go, I've, I've 
failed, I've, I've not achieved 

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my goal. 
Whereas if you can kind of 

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change your thinking slightly 
and go, right, let me just set 

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some mini goals, right? 
Maybe I, maybe I'll start off by

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losing a kilogram. 
All right, Then you take that 

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off, you're like, oh, great, 
I've, I've, I've, I've, you 

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know, I've lost a kilogram. 
Then you try and lose the second

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kilogram. 
And then by doing that, you're 

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like, right, I'm building 
momentum here, I'm going the 

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right direction. 
I've built some good habits. 

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My training's good, my diet's 
good. 

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And then over time, that end 
goal will be more achievable 

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because you've set these smaller
goals that are small wins 

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through the process. 
I think people can get in the 

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habit of setting these big goals
for themselves and not actually 

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celebrating some of the smaller 
wins that happen along the 

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process. 
So yeah, I think it's about 

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setting yourself goals. 
Of course, you know, everyone 

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has this long those kind of long
term goals that they're thinking

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ahead to, but there's this big 
period in the middle where you 

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know you can still achieve 
stuff, you can still progress, 

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you can still improve in 
yourself and celebrate those so 

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that you can build momentum 
getting you to that. 

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I know for me that's always 
happens to me is that I've 

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always got a goal. 
I've always hit the goal and 

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then you fall off straight away.
It's like, oh, I've earned this.

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I've I, I can go back to my 
normal ways and it the weight 

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piles aren't straight away, 
especially if I'm not aiming for

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something, if I haven't got a 
target or something to hold me 

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accountable, it's always the 
case. 

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But if it's, I mean, what's, 
what's the balance between 

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nutrition and training? 
Because say you did everything 

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right perfectly with nutrition, 
but you trained badly. 

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Would you still change your 
body? 

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Would you still get the goal? 
Hit your goals that you're 

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trying to achieve? 
Depends what the goal is, of 

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course. 
I think the nutrition is 

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probably 80% of it. 
Some sort of training is good. 

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Of course is, is, is, is vital, 
but that, you know, that's 

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dependent on the individual, you
know, So for someone who's, he 

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already trains three to four 
times a week, fairly good 

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condition, they might need to 
sustain that training alongside 

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a good nutrition plan to achieve
the goals. 

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Whereas if you've got someone 
who's very sedentary, perhaps a 

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little bit overweight, then you 
know, the first, the first step 

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could be just by like trying to 
sort out their nutrition and 

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just doing something simple like
getting out for more walks 

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during the day. 
So again, it's coming back to 

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that like, right. 
The long term goal there for 

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that sedentary person is 
obviously to lose a lot of 

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weight potentially if he's 
overweight, but not just 

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throwing them into a gym where 
they're uncomfortable. 

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They're not, they're not, 
they're not familiar with it. 

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You could actually just start 
them off by going right, let's 

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just get you a bit more active 
before we introduce you into a 

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gym environment without some 
familiar perhaps would put them 

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off training. 
You know, they could potentially

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lose a bit of weight before 
coming to the gym. 

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So yeah, it's very, it's very 
individual to each person. 

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But I think, yeah, as long as as
long as you know what the 

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outcome you want is, then you 
can kind of work within the 

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confinements of that outcome. 
And what about what beliefs do 

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you see the people have around, 
say, fat loss or muscle 

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building? 
The you you think is going to 

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look completely ridiculous in 
five, five years time? 

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Have people got any? 
Does do any people's beliefs 

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frustrate you that you have? 
The biggest one for fat loss is 

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oh, I need to just remove carbs 
from my diet and that's the 

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that's the solution. 
You do not need to remove carbs 

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from the diet. 
You don't even need to stop 

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eating foods that you enjoy. 
You just need to be cautious of 

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the food you're eating across a 
given week. 

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OK. 
A common mistake people can make

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is, you know, they, they look at
it, they look at their macros 

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daily, whereas you can, 
obviously you can do that, but 

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it's better to look at across 
the week because what you don't 

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want to get in the habit of 
doing is completely stopping 

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your life. 
You know, stop hanging out with 

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your friends, stop eating the 
foods you enjoy, because then 

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you do drift back into that old 
self that you're trying to move 

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on from. 
What you want to get into 

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position of doing is finding 
someone that's sustainable for 

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you to take, take it forward. 
And that might so that will 

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mean, you know, if you want to 
have a few beers on the weekend,

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just making sure that those 
adjustments are made throughout 

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the week to allow you to have a 
couple more beers on the 

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weekend. 
OK, So that's quite a common 

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mistake I see is people end up 
being really strict with 

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themselves during the week and 
then they go and you know, cane 

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the beers over the weekend. 
But if you're just a bit more 

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aware of kind of what you're 
eating during the week, managing

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it and having that understanding
that if I look at my calories 

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across a week and how much 
protein I'm getting in, 

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etcetera, then you can, you 
know, then you can still enjoy 

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like a burger, a pizza and all 
these things that you enjoy a 

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few beers, whatever it might be,
wherever it might be, because 

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you have allowed yourself that 
opportunity to do that by 

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adjust, making those 
adjustments. 

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Is that something you do? 
So it's like, how do you manage 

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your week to in order to let you
sort of enjoy yourself on the 

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weekends? 
So I'll, I'll tend because I 

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train quite a lot, you know, I'm
currently training 7 * a week. 

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My, my volume of food is fairly 
high. 

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I'm not drinking too much at the
moment. 

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But when I do like if I know 
I've got, I don't know, like a 

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stag do coming up, which I do 
actually in February, you know, 

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in the build up to that, I will 
be really like pretty careful 

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with kind of what I'm consuming 
and making sure that I'm kind of

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giving myself the best chance of
not putting up too much weight 

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and that sort of thing. 
So it's just kind of like almost

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like thinking ahead about what's
what's coming up and yeah, just 

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making those kind of healthy, 
better decisions that will kind 

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of limit the repercussions of, 
you know, stuff you enjoy 

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essentially. 
What do you see? 

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What do people think is slow in 
their progress then? 

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And then what do you think is 
the real limiter? 

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So I'll start with the real 
limiter. 

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I think it's, it's just the 
consistency of it is, is just 

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knowing, you know, always, we 
always talk about like you have,

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you have your ceiling and then 
you have the floor. 

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And I think people think they 
need to get they need to keep 

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training at the ceiling the 
whole time. 

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But realistically, even myself, 
like I have days where I might, 

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I cannot be bothered to go in 
the gym and train. 

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But it's like, right, you just 
got just got to find a way to 

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get it done. 
No matter how poor the session 

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is, how low the weights are, 
whatever it is, it's just like, 

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that's your floor, right? 
It's just like the minimum, the 

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minimum effort that you can 
give, but still just showing up 

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and getting the work done. 
But then you've obviously got 

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your ceiling where you're 
feeling good and which is where 

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most people make the mistake of 
thinking, oh, I need to be at 

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that in order for me to, to, to 
train and see that progress. 

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But it's just about building 
that consistency with your 

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training and over time, those 
kind of little moments where 

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you've persevered and got 
through that thought process of,

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oh, I'm not going to do it 
today. 

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Can don't feel like it. 
That compounds over time. 

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And then that's what kind of 
gets the real results. 

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Where I think people go wrong is
probably that as well. 

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They just think, oh, I need to 
be, I need to be really 

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motivated to go to the gym. 
It's like nobody's always 

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motivated to go to the gym, you 
know? 

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It's like, I love training. 
I enjoy training. 

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It's my job to coach people, but
I still have those days where 

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I'm like, I just don't want to 
go for this run or I don't want 

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to do this weight session. 
I'd much rather just go lie in 

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the sofa and chill. 
I'm feeling tired and feeling 

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fatigued. 
So yeah, it's just about kind of

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overcoming those mental 
barriers, I guess that I think 

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is where people struggle and, 
you know, perhaps where the 

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thought process goes in terms of
why things go wrong. 

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I. 
Suppose they could be. 

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The worst thing you could do is 
if you're not doing that 

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session, you start to build that
habit of not training at least. 

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Even if you just get out there 
and do something, it could be 

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just a 10 minute warm up and 
that's it. 

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At least you're maintaining that
habit of still training, still 

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getting out there and doing it. 
Exactly. 

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And that, that's the floor I'm 
talking about. 

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Yeah. 
So that's the, that's the when 

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you're not feeling it at all, 
it's like maybe you don't need 

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to take a walk to the gym to do 
a session. 

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Maybe it's just like, you know, 
you're in your, you're in your 

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house or your flat and you just 
do, I don't know, 50 push ups, 

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50 sit ups, 50 squats and then 
20 burpees. 

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You know, at least that's at 
least you're doing something. 

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And then over time, you'll just 
get in a better habit of going. 

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Right. 
I need to. 

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I need to get to the gym. 
I don't want to, but I'm going 

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to. 
I'm going to go because I've 

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built up those habits of showing
up even when I don't want to. 

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What's the smallest behavioural 
change that someone can do to 

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have the biggest impact to their
body composition? 

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Smallest again, it, it, it 
always comes down to the 

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individual and kind of where 
they're currently at. 

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I think in terms of body 
competition composition, like 

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you just said, that people, I 
think people don't realize how 

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much they're consuming compared 
to how much they're, you know, 

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how much energy they're giving 
out. 

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So there's a lot of, you know, 
obviously a good thing to do is 

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just start tracking your food so
you don't have to do it forever.

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Like it's definitely, I don't do
it, but it is a good tool to use

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just by understanding sort of 
food you're consuming, OK, how 

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what the macros you're consuming
and where you're perhaps over, 

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where you're perhaps under. 
And then you can kind of make 

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those adjustments once you've 
done that for like 4 or five 

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days because it just kind of 
gives you a visual of like, 

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right, Oh God, I'm, I'm eating 
way too many calories for, for 

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what I'm trying to get out for 
my body composition, or I'm 

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eating nowhere near enough 
protein to put on some muscle. 

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So then you can kind of tweak 
those small things just by 

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adding a little bit more protein
to your meals or just reducing 

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things back a little bit if you 
were trying to lose a little bit

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00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,800
of weight. 
So I'd say if it comes down to 

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body composition, that's, that's
obviously a big one is kind of 

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calories in, calories out. 
And then, yeah, it's just about,

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as I touched on before, it's 
just finding ways to be active. 

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Doesn't have to be in the gym. 
You know, you don't have to walk

235
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down to the gym. 
Obviously, strength training is 

236
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really important, and I converge
for it enough. 

237
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But I realized that's not for 
everyone. 

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So it's just like, how can you, 
how can you start today? 

239
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,000
Yeah. 
And how can you just build some 

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00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,640
momentum slowly at a pace that 
that works for them? 

241
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,720
We, we did a health Olympics in 
work once and one of the weeks 

242
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:57,160
we had to track our steps and it
was unbelievable. 

243
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,440
Some of the people in the office
because they, they get out of 

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bed, they jump in the car, they 
drive to work, they get to work,

245
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,280
they sit down for 8 hours a day.
Then they get in the car, drive 

246
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,760
home, go on the couch. 
They have less than 1000 steps a

247
00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,280
day they were doing. 
I suppose that's a big eye 

248
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,880
opener as well. 
I suppose tracking is important 

249
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,400
across all areas, just at the 
start anyway. 

250
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,320
So you've got a base you, you 
spoke about macros there. 

251
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,760
I was wondering, like explain to
me like I'm a 10 year old, what 

252
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,440
is a macro and why is it 
important? 

253
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,800
And and how do you figure it out
what you need to be hitting in 

254
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:37,000
terms of your macros? 
So a macro stands for a macro 

255
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,720
nutrient. 
So you've kind of got three big 

256
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,520
ones, which are your protein, 
your carbohydrates and your 

257
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,760
fats. 
So your your proteins are really

258
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,360
important for kind of muscle 
repair and muscle growth. 

259
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,040
Your carbohydrates are important
for your glycosures, which gives

260
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,520
you energy to do stuff to train 
etcetera. 

261
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,600
And then your fats are important
for for a number of things 

262
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:02,840
around like hormone production 
etcetera. 

263
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:08,640
So it's important to get a good 
balance of those three things. 

264
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,640
You tend to kind of want more 
carbohydrates, slightly more 

265
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,400
carbohydrates. 
And then fats and protein, 

266
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,520
depending on your goal again, 
tend to be close to close in 

267
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,360
terms of the percentage of your 
total calorie intake. 

268
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,280
So yeah, it's how you can go 
about discovering it. 

269
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:31,200
There's loads of apps out there.
My fitness powers powers kind of

270
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,240
the more the most generic one 
everyone knows, you can kind of 

271
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,120
go in, put your goals, put your 
current weight, and then it can 

272
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:44,240
provide you with those 
percentage breakdowns of of what

273
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,800
you need to be eating. 
And then it'll give you the 

274
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,240
number of grams you want to you 
want to be having for each of 

275
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those macro nutrients. 
And then you can go from there. 

276
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,640
And then you can start scanning 
what you're eating, etcetera, 

277
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etcetera. 
So that's as as a touched one 

278
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,360
there that that was that would 
be how I would recommend it when

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00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,840
it comes to body composition 
that you can make an easy start 

280
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,920
just by understanding what it is
you're putting into your body 

281
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:11,760
and what it is you need to 
change. 

282
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,080
Why do people? 
Cut carbs out. 

283
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:15,760
Their diet. 
Then why do people think that 

284
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,360
they need to cut carbs out their
diet in order to lose weight? 

285
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:19,360
What? 
What is that? 

286
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,080
It's a mix of social media 
influence. 

287
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,400
I know So because you know, if 
you think about if you if you 

288
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,440
restrict carbs, you're 
restricting the calories. 

289
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:37,360
So the, the immediate thought 
process is, all right, I'm 

290
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,480
losing weight because I'm 
restricting carbs. 

291
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,040
But actually it's, it's because 
you've restricted the calories 

292
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,080
and then you're under your, 
you're under your, you're under 

293
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,000
your kind of maintenance level. 
Yeah. 

294
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,480
So then you're in a calorie 
deficit. 

295
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,680
So that's why you're losing 
weight. 

296
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,520
But the common, the common 
mistake is that, well, it's not 

297
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,440
because of the carbs, it's 
actually the calories. 

298
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,840
So it's, it's it's social media 
influence. 

299
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,000
And yeah, I mean, that's 
probably the primary reason I'd 

300
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:08,640
say, I suppose, like carbs. 
Are associated with, I guess a 

301
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,960
lot of calorie dense foods as 
well. 

302
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,680
You've got like pizza, pasta, 
potatoes, chips. 

303
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,000
And so they think, oh, if we 
rather than cutting out those 

304
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,240
foods, I just cut out carbs. 
Maybe, I don't know, it's 

305
00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:23,800
obvious. 
Right, I know everyone. 

306
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,440
Here hates adverts, but this one
actually keeps the light on here

307
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,360
at rockman so bear with me 
Rockman runs monthly online 

308
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,920
running and fitness challenges, 
but people short on time that 

309
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,280
still want a proper challenge to
spike their motivation. 

310
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,680
You get the buzz of race day 
without waiting for a far off 

311
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,280
event to come around with no 
travel and no extortion or entry

312
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,000
fees. 
Just real tests that you can fit

313
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,400
in and around your life anytime,
anywhere, all year round. 

314
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,280
And if you're not going ready 
for a challenge yet, we've got 

315
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,120
free, no nonsense running and 
strength plans that you can grab

316
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:52,400
via the link down below. 
Now let's get back to the 

317
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,680
episode. 
So we have I've introduced you. 

318
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,720
Yeah. 
Who is Joey Jones and what you 

319
00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,920
do? 
So Joey Jones, first of all, I 

320
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,880
hate talking about the career as
the first one, but I think it my

321
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,320
career kind of finds who I am. 
And it's been a big change that 

322
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,720
I made in the last year that has
allowed me to get to a person I 

323
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,120
finally feel proud of. 
So I'm a, I'm a personal 

324
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:22,360
trainer, a coach, besides in 
Edinburgh, got past experience 

325
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:26,360
with sport, grew up playing 
rugby, tried to pursue a career 

326
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,880
in in South Africa that 
unfortunately didn't work out 

327
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:37,040
due to multiple head knocks, and
then spent about 5-6 years down 

328
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,920
in London where I was. 
I worked in consultancy, 

329
00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:46,280
strategy and operations. 
And yeah, I just always, always 

330
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,600
knew that was never the career 
for me. 

331
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,640
You know, I was, I remember just
like kind of waking up every day

332
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,800
grinding through a life that, 
you know, I chose yes, but which

333
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,560
I knew was never the right fit 
for me. 

334
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,720
You know, it was kind of just 
like slowly eating away at me 

335
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,320
what I was doing. 
And I knew, I knew I needed to 

336
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,680
make a change. 
So that's when kind of last last

337
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:14,240
summer, I decided to, to leave 
London and leave my job. 

338
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,440
And, you know, I wanted to find 
that excitement in, in a career 

339
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,320
that I loved and something I 
could, you know, actually help 

340
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,880
people in. 
And yeah, so that's what brought

341
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,680
me to be a coach. 
Yeah. 

342
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,520
So rugby background, fitness has
always been a big, huge part of 

343
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:40,080
my life for for many reasons. 
And now personal trainer doing 

344
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,280
what I love trying to trying to 
help people better themselves 

345
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,520
and improve in in kind of 
different aspects. 

346
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:48,560
Yeah. 
What What led you to the? 

347
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,760
Sort of the the 9:00 to 5:00 
office job then was it, were you

348
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,960
following a path that you sort 
of you felt that you needed to 

349
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,760
go down? 
Yeah, that's exactly it. 

350
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,560
It's you know that when you go 
through school, you know, like 

351
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,480
when you when you have those 
days that where careers come in,

352
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,200
it's like careers day. 
You never see, you never see 

353
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,880
guys from the gym or, you know, 
personal trainers coming in 

354
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,680
trying to try to talk about the 
career career as a personal 

355
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,360
trainer. 
And it's so you. 

356
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,680
I just kind of like removed that
from my mind. 

357
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,480
Never really thought about it. 
Always thought like what's 

358
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,560
what's the career that's going 
to be the most lucrative and 

359
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,920
going to earn me the most money.
And I was actually, other than 

360
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,480
sport, I was actually really 
good at maths at school, which 

361
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,480
is people often think, people 
often go, what the hell? 

362
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,560
There's no way. 
They often think, I can't 

363
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,200
believe you're a mathematician. 
But that was my other, I guess, 

364
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,240
talent, you could say. 
So I'd actually was like, oh, 

365
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,720
maybe I should do that at 
university, like if rugby 

366
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,160
doesn't work out. 
So I was kind of keeping that 

367
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:59,040
going alongside my rugby career.
And obviously when the rugby 

368
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,640
career ended, I had to, you 
know, go to university, studied 

369
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,680
maths and quickly realized that 
I was a bit out of my depth 

370
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,920
compared to a lot of other 
people I was studying with. 

371
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,360
But I got through it somehow. 
And then, you know, and then 

372
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:18,320
from then it was like, right, 
use your degree to get to get a,

373
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,240
get a job. 
So I actually spent a year in 

374
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,120
Sydney after university. 
My brother and my sister-in-law 

375
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,240
were living out there at the 
time. 

376
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,880
So I wanted to go spend a year 
with them and see what job I 

377
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,480
could do. 
I wasn't really thinking career 

378
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,880
at that point, I was more 
thinking how can I have a good 

379
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,480
time. 
So yeah, I ended up having a 

380
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,800
good time but also lining up a 
really good job out there which 

381
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:49,400
which then allowed me to come 
back to the UK, move to London 

382
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,400
with that same company and I 
then worked for them for another

383
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,040
five years. 
So. 

384
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,960
Yeah, I guess. 
I guess it. 

385
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,800
Wasn't like deeply fulfilling 
like is, is that something what 

386
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,320
made you want to be a personal 
trainer? 

387
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,000
Where, where did you get the 
idea from? 

388
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,080
And is it, is it fulfilling you 
so much more than it was when 

389
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,400
you were sort of pursuing the 
career? 

390
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,840
I think the, the idea came 
basically last last year. 

391
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,960
I, I was going through a lot of,
a lot of bad mental health 

392
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:29,120
problems and that was tied into 
to kind of the work I was doing 

393
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:31,400
and that was making things 
worse. 

394
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,280
And I knew, I knew the career 
was never for me. 

395
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,000
And as I said, fitness has 
always been a huge part of my 

396
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,440
life. 
And I just kind of thought, 

397
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,160
right, maybe I need to change my
thinking, not chase the money, 

398
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,560
not chase the, you know, the 
increase in the, in the 

399
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,600
corporate ladder, like like 
everyone's teams to do. 

400
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,280
Maybe I just need to do 
something that I get enjoyment 

401
00:22:55,280 --> 00:23:00,000
from and I also just get 
enjoyment from helping people. 

402
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,800
And actually I'm just trying to 
understand people and help them 

403
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,840
improve their lives. 
So I just was like, right, I'm 

404
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,880
going to bite the bullet, leave 
London, leave my job, get my 

405
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,320
qualifications, move back to 
Edinburgh. 

406
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,600
And yeah, I've, I've never 
looked back since. 

407
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,960
And I've obviously the best 
decision I've ever made is 

408
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,840
because now I'm in a job that 
that I'm happy. 

409
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,160
I'm, I'm proud to be in. 
I'm proud, I'm more proud of 

410
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,400
myself. 
And and I know I'm a better 

411
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,280
person when I like walk through 
those doors at work and I don't 

412
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,440
have those Sunday, Sunday Blues 
that everyone talks about going 

413
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,120
into my going into work on 
Monday. 

414
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:39,120
I'm actually like excited 
thinking about who I'm going to 

415
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,960
see, who I'm going to coach, 
what sort of conversations I'm 

416
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,400
going to have, you know? 
So yeah, that's how I know I've 

417
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,280
made the right decision. 
And I believe I'm in a career 

418
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:53,600
that I'm, you know, I'm meant to
be in there, which is great. 

419
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:54,320
Yeah. 
And you get to go to. 

420
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,640
Work in shorts, don't forget 
that. 

421
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,200
That should be the top top of 
your list there. 

422
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,320
Not right now in January, but 
yeah, in summer it's great if 

423
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,320
you got the long Johns. 
On. 

424
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,360
Yeah, yeah. 
Long Johns, track gloves, hats, 

425
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,680
sometimes scarf when it's 0°. 
But I know, I know you. 

426
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,920
Touched on there about sort of 
where you were a year ago, maybe

427
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,200
with your mental health. 
And you know, that's how we met 

428
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,080
and that's how I, I came across 
you as the, the, the challenges 

429
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:30,400
that you did for Movember, which
we will touch upon in a bit. 

430
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,200
Before we get on to that, I've 
got a few more questions of 

431
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,760
about personal training and 
helping people get into to 

432
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,400
fitness. 
So we'll, we'll, we'll answer 

433
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,160
them and then we'll go on to the
incredible challenges. 

434
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:44,200
Because some are pretty mental. 
They are pretty mad. 

435
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,600
What's the one thing that people
avoid in training that could 

436
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,320
make them fitter the fastest? 
What? 

437
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:52,800
What does everyone sort of put 
off? 

438
00:25:03,310 --> 00:25:08,110
I think people just put off 
challenging themselves. 

439
00:25:08,110 --> 00:25:11,790
But when I say challenging 
themself, you know, is this kind

440
00:25:11,790 --> 00:25:14,350
of this this phrase of like 
optimal challenge, right? 

441
00:25:14,350 --> 00:25:18,360
So every, every individual is 
different, you know, so someone 

442
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:24,200
who's never been in the gym 
before, scared to train their 

443
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,040
first challenge of that day is 
just showing up, just showing up

444
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,080
to the gym and just like getting
through that hour, not pushing 

445
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,080
the weight, not, you know, not 
challenge, you know, not 

446
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,760
challenging the load like that 
sort of thing. 

447
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,720
They're their first challenge is
just like right during that 

448
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,960
first session, right? 
That's a win, right. 

449
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:47,480
And then, but then you might get
someone who it was a bit more 

450
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,960
experienced trainer that we 
coach and it's like, right, 

451
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,960
again, finding their optimal 
challenge. 

452
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,360
So it's like, right, what I see 
a lot is people just kind of 

453
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:59,760
going through the motions and 
not kind of pushing them to to a

454
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,760
place where it starts to feel a 
little bit uncomfortable because

455
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,360
people, people naturally chase 
comfort, right? 

456
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,480
So they they don't like sitting 
in there uncomfortable where 

457
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,320
unfortunately when it comes to 
progression with strength or 

458
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,880
whatever it might be, you need 
to get comfortable being a bit 

459
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:18,760
uncomfortable. 
That's kind of where the growth 

460
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,040
is. 
So yeah, I'd say that's a big 

461
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,320
thing is just getting people 
confident to push themselves to 

462
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,440
that place. 
But in a Safeway, of course, 

463
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,440
because you don't want them 
moving incorrectly to try to 

464
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,240
challenge the load. 
Ultimately you want them moving 

465
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,160
well as a priority to start 
with. 

466
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,440
And then over time that then you
can begin to kind of increase 

467
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,840
the challenge for each of those 
and push the bar a bit. 

468
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,880
Yeah, push it a bit further. 
Take me for example. 

469
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,080
Why do so many people train for 
years but still look the same? 

470
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,800
I've been training for bloody 
years, Joey. 

471
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,760
What am I doing wrong? 
Why haven't I put? 

472
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,880
Why aren't I massive? 
Terry, we need to sit down for a

473
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,080
good hour or so. 
You'll need more than an. 

474
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:12,400
Hour. 
It, it can come down to a number

475
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,240
of things. 
You know, there's your stress 

476
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,640
levels at work, there's your 
sleep, there's your, you know, 

477
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,720
we talked about, talked upon 
consistency of your training, 

478
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,560
doing the right sort of things 
in training, You know, are you 

479
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,000
kind of progressively 
overloading, you know, or are 

480
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,640
you just staying the same thing,
doing the same exercises week 

481
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,680
and week out? 
They it's multifaceted. 

482
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,720
There's so many different things
that can be involved and 

483
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,880
unfortunately that so the 
solution to that can't be solved

484
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,440
in one hour. 
To chat unfortunately is 

485
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,400
something you've just got to 
kind of work with a coach. 

486
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,320
Ideally, I think it is important
to get a coach if you've been in

487
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,000
that situation for a while 
because they can better 

488
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,000
understand and work with you 
kind of what sort of habits you 

489
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,560
have. 
What, how's your sleep? 

490
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,600
How's your stress? 
What's your nutrition like and 

491
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,200
kind of look at the whole 
picture and then work with you 

492
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,480
over a period of time to try 
improve on those things. 

493
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,840
But yeah, I wish I could, I wish
I could tell you quick clip, but

494
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,720
the, the quick answer is it's 
it's, it's more than yeah, it's 

495
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,120
a bit. 
What do you see as the most? 

496
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:19,000
Common reason? 
Do you see it? 

497
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,520
Like is it obvious to some 
people? 

498
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,960
It's like right, you're just not
eating enough protein or right, 

499
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,840
you're not, you're not doing a 
progressive overload. 

500
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,320
What's the most common thing you
see? 

501
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,240
Again, it comes down to the 
individual and what their goals 

502
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,200
are. 
But let's say someone trying to 

503
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:41,880
lose, lose weight and has only 
been training for two months. 

504
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,880
The common thing I see is just 
either dropping off, not having 

505
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,800
that consistency, you know, 
perhaps coming training for 

506
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,160
three weeks, taking a week or 
two off and then training again.

507
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,040
You know, you've got to build 
that consistency for a good 

508
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:57,880
amount of time. 
Obviously there's holidays and 

509
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,280
stuff like that that's going to 
appear in everyone's life for 

510
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,400
that. 
That's absolutely fine. 

511
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,520
But it's it's kind of those drop
offs and you know, those weeks 

512
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,200
where you just let your diet 
slip or, you know, there's kind 

513
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,840
of multiple different reasons. 
But as I said, there are some 

514
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,360
things that harder control, like
your stress levels. 

515
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,560
Sometimes you sleep. 
There are there are kind of 

516
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:20,960
things you can do for your 
sleep. 

517
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,720
But that's something I struggle 
with. 

518
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,000
I'm still working on myself is 
is my sleep. 

519
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:31,400
But yeah, it's because there's 
so many things involved in, in 

520
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,160
kind of your, your progression 
that can, can limit your 

521
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,120
progression in whatever you're 
trying to get to. 

522
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,800
You've really just got to kind 
of try zoom in and, and identify

523
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,320
something that's potentially it 
and try change that. 

524
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,360
If it's not, if it's not 
changing after making those big 

525
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,040
changes to wherever that is, 
then you're right, it's probably

526
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,720
not that right? 
What else could it be? 

527
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,200
And it's that's why it's just a 
bit a bit of investigation 

528
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:01,240
required in order for you to 
kind of reach the the result or 

529
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,120
the the reason for why you're 
potentially not moving the 

530
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,960
direction and what would you? 
Say the main sort of pillars of 

531
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,320
say muscle growth or fat loss. 
What are the main pillars people

532
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,720
need to be hitting? 
Because I know you said there's 

533
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,600
a, there's a multitude of 
variables, but what are the main

534
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,080
things if you wanted to increase
that size or lose that fat? 

535
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,560
I mean, the cheapest 1 is you 
sleep as I touched one there, 

536
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,040
like not getting enough sleep 
each night. 

537
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:36,800
That seriously hinders your 
ability to grow muscle, but also

538
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,880
weight loss. 
So that's something you can sort

539
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,080
out straight away before you 
even step foot in the gym. 

540
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,640
And then, yeah, it comes back to
just nutrition, getting the 

541
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:52,040
right food in your body, you 
know, Whole Foods, etcetera. 

542
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,520
Doesn't have to be that through 
the whole week and through your 

543
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,680
whole year, but it's making sure
you have, you might have heard 

544
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,520
of like the 8020 rules, like as 
long as we're consistent with 

545
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,080
what we're eating 80% of the 
week and you have a little bit 

546
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:09,240
of flexibility with 20% of that 
week where you can perhaps 

547
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,200
deviate slightly from a healthy 
diet. 

548
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,000
So I think, yeah, nutrition, 
sleep, recovery, I think people 

549
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,640
think, you know, you need to do 
more to get what you get, the 

550
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,080
outcome you're after. 
You can still get a really good 

551
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,360
muscley physique from three 
sessions a week, as you can from

552
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,680
say, 5. 
It's just about making sure 

553
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,320
you're doing the right things, 
you're recovering well and 

554
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,320
you're pushing yourself hard in 
those three sessions. 

555
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,240
OK, so then it's it's just about
kind of understanding those 

556
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,080
different things and making sure
those are all at a good level. 

557
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,520
And then you there's no doubt 
you'll see the progress. 

558
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,480
How do? 
You train people what type of 

559
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,440
training you do them. 
Like ultimately people are going

560
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,880
to think, right, I just need to 
pick Arnold Schwarzenegger's 

561
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,520
training plan, get download that
online and get after it doing 

562
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,760
the Bros split or whatever, you 
know, chest on Tuesdays, legs on

563
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,960
Wednesdays, whatever it is in 
the real world. 

564
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,720
Does that work? 
And if you're not, what are you 

565
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:13,160
prescribing someone? 
So the, the people we tend to 

566
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,520
get in through our doors are 
kind of your like general 

567
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,200
population people, someone who's
never been in the gym before 

568
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,680
wanting to lose a bit of weight,
wanting to be a better dad or 

569
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,440
mom and have more energy around 
the house. 

570
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,960
Like those are the sort of 
people, you know, I think you'll

571
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,680
get in most gyms that rock up 
for for coaching. 

572
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,600
They're not going to benefit 
from, you know, a bro split 

573
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,560
Arnold Schwarzenegger program. 
You know, they need to be 

574
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,560
properly looked at and how they 
move to start with. 

575
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,840
And then you've got to assess 
based on how they move, what is 

576
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,480
the right starting point for 
them and then progressing them 

577
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,360
at a pace that works for them 
and strategically giving them a 

578
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,280
plan that's going to allow them 
to progress at a safe and steady

579
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,320
way. 
Whereas something like an orders

580
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,680
Fortuninger plan is going to 
maybe fit more of like someone 

581
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,440
who's trained before, got a 
better experience in the gym, 

582
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,760
knows what they're doing, 
doesn't need any guidance on 

583
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,920
movement quality, how to do the 
movements, how to progressively 

584
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,040
overload, etcetera. 
So yeah, again, it just always 

585
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,160
comes down to the individual and
meeting them where they're at 

586
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:28,040
and progressing them at a pace 
that's going to get the best 

587
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,080
outcome. 
Yeah, I suppose at the end of 

588
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,960
the. 
Day we're not bodybuilders the 

589
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,080
the everyday athlete they just 
want to be fit for life you know

590
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,200
to play with their kids and 
stuff exactly they they don't 

591
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,560
need to go down the muscle beach
and yeah every like. 

592
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,920
I'd say like 3540 plus 
everything is about longevity 

593
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,960
and how, how they can be better 
for their family and their, you 

594
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,800
know, they're not thinking, how 
can I get massive biceps or pecs

595
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,720
like Arnold Schwarzenegger, you 
know, like that, that doesn't 

596
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,480
bother them. 
You know, you will. 

597
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,560
I think that was like maybe 
10-15 years ago where that was 

598
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,920
where it was really big and 
people were trying to pursue 

599
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,520
that. 
But I think nowadays it's, it's 

600
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,639
more about connection and 
community and energy and, you 

601
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:13,440
know, just being happy in the 
body there. 

602
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,920
They've got it's, it's not about
how big, how big is my 6 pack 

603
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,199
and my pack and can I crush a 
beer camel? 

604
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:26,679
I think people like that. 
But it's, I just think, yeah, it

605
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:30,159
has been a there's been a shift 
and the gym is for more people 

606
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,960
now, which is definitely. 
Definitely right enough about 

607
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,360
gym chat. 
I want to get onto your 

608
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,520
challenges. 
So literally only a couple of 

609
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,520
months ago in November, you 
completed what you coined the 

610
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,159
Iron MO. 
Can you explain to me what is 

611
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,639
the Iron MO and why did you 
design it that way? 

612
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:58,360
So the Iron MO is half half Iron
Man which is 1.9 kilometers 

613
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,720
swim, 90 kilometer bike, 1/2 
marathon. 

614
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:08,720
Now I wanted to try spice up a 
little bit so I decided in the 

615
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:11,120
transition. 
So in between the swimming, the 

616
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,320
bike and the bike in the run, I 
thought I'd do full Hyrox as 

617
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,920
well. 
So I don't know if everyone 

618
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,920
knows what Hyrox is, but there's
essentially a mix of running 

619
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,240
intervals. 
So eight, 8 * 1 kilometre 

620
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,960
running with eight different 
functional exercises involved, 

621
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,760
which are very taxing in 
themselves. 

622
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:35,680
So yeah, I did that. 
How it got brought on, I was 

623
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:37,360
basically just chatting to my 
brother. 

624
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,400
He does. 
He's like a very good 

625
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,440
triathlete. 
He did it for quite a few years 

626
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,520
in Australia and we were just 
talking about it and he, we were

627
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:47,720
just discussing what we could 
do. 

628
00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:50,120
And you know, I'm, I'm 
definitely not an endurance 

629
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,560
sport sports person. 
I'm, I'm like 100 kilos, quite a

630
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,520
big guy. 
Endurance sport is made for, you

631
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,800
know, your 70K guys. 
But I thought, right, this is I 

632
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,960
want something that's going to 
like really challenge me and 

633
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:05,880
something that's really out my 
comfort zone. 

634
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,320
So I was like, right, I'll do a 
half Iron Man. 

635
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,920
I thought about an Iron Man, but
I was like, no, that's insane. 

636
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,360
Like I think even that's even 
outside my thought process. 

637
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,920
But so I went half Iron Man and 
then two higher offices. 

638
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,400
So that's how it came about. 
And it, yeah, managed to 

639
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,360
complete it in just over 12 
hours until. 

640
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,040
So how it happened? 
Yeah. 

641
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:34,160
How was your experience in the 
Iron Man disciplines? 

642
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:37,320
You know, had you swam before? 
Because a lot of the time people

643
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:39,440
don't swim, you know, like, had 
you swam before? 

644
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,080
Were you a bit of a runner? 
Were you ever on the bike? 

645
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,000
Or are these completely new? 
So my brother always said I've 

646
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,560
got the water dynamics of a 
brick. 

647
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,040
Before that, that was the 
biggest challenge actually, was 

648
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,240
just getting trained to swim 
properly. 

649
00:36:55,240 --> 00:37:00,680
Like I've always been a terrible
swimmer, fairly decent runner. 

650
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,040
Like I just ran a just run a 
marathon about 8 weeks before 

651
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,120
that and a full marathon mess. 
OK, cool. 

652
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:08,720
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

653
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:11,760
So I did that like 8 weeks 
before. 

654
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,680
So I was, it was good because 
they'd given me a bit of 

655
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:15,080
training for the running 
already. 

656
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,600
So I knew the running I was OK 
with. 

657
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,760
And then the bike, the bike was 
just about grinding it out. 

658
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,000
You know, I kind of treated the 
bike as a bit of a rest period, 

659
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,920
you could say just to kind of 
get some fuel in and yeah, 

660
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,360
recover, even though it was 
about just under 3 hours on the 

661
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,120
bike. 
But the swimming was the 

662
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,240
hardest. 
I had to like really work on 

663
00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:43,880
that and improve in that area. 
But again, it was, you know, the

664
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,640
swimming is under an hour. 
So I did that in like 45 

665
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,440
minutes. 
So I actually did did pretty 

666
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,840
well in that in the end, but 
getting to that point was was 

667
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,640
probably the challenging bit the
training. 

668
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,680
I actually think the training 
for it was maybe worse than the 

669
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,080
actual as it as it. 
Should you've got to get ready, 

670
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,640
haven't you? 
You know, you've got to prepare 

671
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,280
yourself for the onslaught. 
Like how long did you train? 

672
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:10,320
How long did you give yourself? 
So because of I was, I said he's

673
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,080
training for that marathon. 
And then after that I was like, 

674
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,880
oh God, I have like 6. 
I wanted to give myself a bit of

675
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,640
rest after the marathon. 
So I had six weeks to train for 

676
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,800
for this challenge, having very 
little swimming experience, 

677
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,480
never really done that sort of 
length on a bike. 

678
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,800
But luckily with the running and
the high rock stuff I've done, 

679
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,080
you know, I've done a double S 
high rocks before and done that 

680
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,120
sort of training before. 
So felt fairly confident in 

681
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,280
that, although big difference in
doing it in a high rocks and 

682
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,480
doing, you know, 90 kilometer 
bike and then doing rocks. 

683
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,400
I can imagine that was a bit. 
How did you structure? 

684
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,160
Your training week What did what
did your training training week 

685
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:57,520
look like? 
It consisted of two runs, 2 

686
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:04,200
swims, 2 cycles and then a mix 
of kind of high rocks and one of

687
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,760
the other kind of modalities. 
So I tried to just kind of cover

688
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:12,080
all, all modalities twice a week
and then try and mix, get a 

689
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,800
blend of a blend of two of them 
in a in a day or two as well. 

690
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,840
So I think I was training up to 
like 10 times in a week, which 

691
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,960
was yeah, that's quite a lot. 
Yeah. 

692
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,000
How did you break it? 
Down Like, what were you doing 

693
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:32,960
on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday?
I mean, depending on kind of 

694
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,920
work shifts and stuff, but I 
would kind of look at my look at

695
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,000
when I was working and just kind
of adjust it based on that. 

696
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,840
But it would, it would usually 
be either like swim early 

697
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,320
morning and then do my do my 
work and then run or gym at the 

698
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,720
end or long cycle in the 
morning. 

699
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,520
I tend to do the cycle, run, 
swims in the morning if I can 

700
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,720
just get up early and do it and 
then whatever's left in the 

701
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:04,840
evening to try to get myself 
like a little bit of recovery 

702
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,200
from the previous session. 
But sometimes I'd have to do 

703
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,280
them just one after the other 
because I'd be working like 12 

704
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:14,280
to late or something. 
So I'd have to just get 

705
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,680
everything done in the morning. 
Yeah, I just just find a way. 

706
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,160
There probably wasn't the right 
way to do it, but it was just 

707
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,880
like it had to, it had to be 
done. 

708
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,960
So did the training work? 
When did you feel prepared going

709
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,880
in? 
So I went into it with a 

710
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,640
strained calf and ended off my 
ankle. 

711
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,760
So I wasn't going into it in the
best, the best shape to be 

712
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,320
honest. 
But it got me definitely got me 

713
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,600
ready. 
In terms of my swimming was the 

714
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,080
big one I was worried about 
because it's the first, the 

715
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,800
first, first part of the 
challenge. 

716
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,720
And I was really worried that I 
was just going to be like 

717
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,840
drowning and really struck most 
of that. 

718
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,240
And then I would have just 
absolutely burned myself out. 

719
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:04,840
My shoulders would have been 
knackered and my legs. 

720
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,600
And I just thought if I don't 
get the swimming right, that 

721
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,280
rest of the day is going to be 
horrendous. 

722
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:15,240
So thankfully I managed to get 
to a place where I felt fairly 

723
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:19,440
confident with the swimming. 
It was probably after the bike. 

724
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,000
The second high rocks was where 
I really, I really crashed. 

725
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,640
I like felt just my whole body 
was just broken. 

726
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,200
My both my legs completely 
cramped up. 

727
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,560
So I had to just quickly recover
from that. 

728
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,760
And then it didn't help that on 
that cold Edinburgh day, it was 

729
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:40,000
like blowing a Gale. 
So then I had to do as I said, 

730
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,480
she did 52 laps of a of a track 
in Edinburgh as well. 

731
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,480
So half marathon around a windy 
track, the cold. 

732
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:54,320
So yeah, all the yeah, it 
wasn't, it wasn't, Yeah, the 

733
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,480
weather wasn't, was pretty 
against me on the day. 

734
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,920
But yeah, managed to get through
and I had had a really good 

735
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:05,120
support around me, you know, 
family, friends, people from 

736
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,920
work supported me in terms of 
like just making sure I'm 

737
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,400
getting my nutrition on at the 
right time and stuff like that. 

738
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,440
So definitely having a bit of a 
team and support that network 

739
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:16,200
around me got me through. 
Yeah, was. 

740
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,760
There a time where you thought I
can't do this, and if there was,

741
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,520
how did you power through those 
sort of negative times? 

742
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,720
Honestly, that there wasn't. 
I didn't. 

743
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:34,880
I think I just, I believed in 
my, my mental strength to get 

744
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,640
through it no matter what. 
Like even if my body broke down,

745
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,480
I was still going to find a way 
to to just get through it, no 

746
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,040
matter how long it took. 
I did have a goal in mind at the

747
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,160
beginning of like trying to get 
it done under 14. 

748
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,520
So I like completely smashed 
that, which is great. 

749
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,960
So everything went as well as it
could do. 

750
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,920
And I just, I think over my 
experiences and what I've been 

751
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:04,600
through in the past, My mental 
strength is kind of what, what I

752
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,200
knew was going to separate me 
from not achieving it and 

753
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,480
achieving it. 
So, yeah, never really had a 

754
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:11,840
doubt that I was going to 
complete it. 

755
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,800
Had a doubt that maybe I might 
not get it under 14 hours. 

756
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,400
But that was, you know, the, 
the, the question of finishing 

757
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,280
was never, was never. 
And you. 

758
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,280
You. 
Were raising money for Movember 

759
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,360
mental health charity. 
Yeah, that's correct. 

760
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,600
Obviously that's. 
An important charity to you, 

761
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,080
yourself. 
Can you explain why? 

762
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,760
You picked Movember and why it's
why is it so important that you 

763
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,200
were raising money and 
highlighting the issues that are

764
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:45,800
surrounded by that charity? 
Yeah, so November was a charity 

765
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:50,120
that just came, came to me at a 
point in my life when I was. 

766
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,520
Yeah, I wasn't in a good place. 
I was really struggling with 

767
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:02,600
depression and mental health 
through my 20s and I was trying 

768
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,520
to deal with some trauma that 
had happened in my, when I was 

769
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,920
20 years old when I was pursuing
a career in South Africa. 

770
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:17,600
I, I was, I was sexually 
assaulted at 20 years old and 

771
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,560
didn't, didn't deal with it in 
the right way at all. 

772
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,080
I, you know, I stayed quiet for 
starters. 

773
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,920
I just just kind of dealt with 
it myself. 

774
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,880
I tried to just kind of push 
through the pain, never wanted 

775
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,920
to ask for help. 
And I think it came to kind of 

776
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,200
boiling point. 
And then once I finally spoke to

777
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:48,200
someone and realized how how 
good it felt just for me to 

778
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,200
finally be open and vulnerable 
about what what I'd been 

779
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,080
through. 
And then it was from that I then

780
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:59,640
wanted to try find ways to to be
more open. 

781
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,920
And November kind of gave me the
platform to do that. 

782
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:09,840
So, So, yeah, that's essentially
like why last year before like a

783
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,320
couple weeks before November or 
November started, I kind of went

784
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:19,080
on camera and I told my story on
Instagram just because I was 

785
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:20,600
like, right. 
I want to, I want to try to get 

786
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:26,000
across the message to as many 
people as possible about kind of

787
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,320
being open and vulnerable about 
your own struggles and your own 

788
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,080
mental health. 
And so, yeah, I wanted to try 

789
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,280
hopefully pass that on to 
others. 

790
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,040
And I then I realized from that 
I kind of, I needed to confront 

791
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,680
kind of my own monsters in order
for me to find peace as well 

792
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,560
with what had happened. 
And from that I've managed to, 

793
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,840
you know, raise a lot of money 
from November, which is awesome.

794
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:59,600
But but but for me, what's been 
great from it is just how much 

795
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,600
my messages kind of resonate 
with people. 

796
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,360
And I've had people just 
reaching out to me off the back 

797
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:09,280
of last year, what what I did 
and saying how much that's given

798
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,520
them strength to go and speak 
about their own struggles with 

799
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,040
someone. 
And so that was, that was more 

800
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:21,440
yeah, that that sort of like 
sense of yeah, it it, it allowed

801
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,520
me to turn my, my pain into, 
into purpose. 

802
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,040
Essentially. 
I want it gave me, it allowed me

803
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:32,200
to kind of flip my trauma on its
head and go actually, well, I 

804
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:33,880
can do so I can do some good 
with this now. 

805
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,880
Like this is this is helping 
people meet my my ability to be 

806
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,720
open with what what I've gone 
through. 

807
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,000
And that's from there. 
I was like, right, this member 

808
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,040
is a charity hugely important to
me. 

809
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,040
And I want to continue year on 
year to try do all I can to 

810
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:53,760
raise money, but just kind of 
continue that message of men 

811
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,640
being a little bit more open 
with one another and talking. 

812
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,560
You said that. 
It really helped you like 

813
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,880
finally addressing it and 
talking about it. 

814
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:04,960
Did it? 
Did it feel like you no longer 

815
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:11,040
had to sort of mask or not avoid
confronting the issue that you 

816
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,320
were putting to the back of your
mind? 

817
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,360
Is that, is that what I sort of 
allowed you to do, to be be more

818
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:18,960
of yourself? 
Yeah. 

819
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,640
Yeah, yeah. 
I think for so, so many years in

820
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:28,080
my 20s, I was putting on this 
image that I was just like, you 

821
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,560
know, outgoing fungi had it, had
it all figured out. 

822
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:36,000
And you know, when really I was,
you know, really I was just 

823
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,040
massively struggling and trying 
to find ways to to kind of, 

824
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,640
yeah, as you said, mask what I 
was really good, what was really

825
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,400
going on. 
So yeah, it just, it just 

826
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,840
allowed me to really just bring 
everything to the surface and 

827
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:56,080
just finally accept, accept what
had happened and come, as I 

828
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,760
said, come to peace with what 
had happened and and then start 

829
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:04,280
to use it for for some good. 
So yeah, definitely the more 

830
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,800
conversations I had, the more, 
you know, for instance, like 

831
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,120
this, right, two years ago, 
there's not a chance I could 

832
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,600
have done this. 
So like I'm today, I'm viewing 

833
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,520
this as like, great, great to do
because I'm like, if I think 

834
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,200
about to myself two years ago he
would, there's no way he would 

835
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:22,600
believe that I'd be doing this 
right now. 

836
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:25,840
So yeah, that I'm proud of that 
growth for myself. 

837
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,640
And that's what I want to try. 
You know, the message I want to 

838
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,760
try get across to as many people
as possible through November and

839
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:39,320
through the challenges I do is 
it might feel awful now, 

840
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,000
whatever you're going through, 
but there is kind of a light at 

841
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,760
the end of the tunnel. 
You know, you can find a way 

842
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,400
through. 
And it's not going to say it's 

843
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,360
easy, not going to say it 
doesn't take time because it's 

844
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:51,840
taken me a long time to get to 
where I am today. 

845
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:56,680
But it is possible. 
So that's the message I try try 

846
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,040
to get across. 
Yeah, I think it's brilliant. 

847
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,600
I think it's brilliant what 
you're doing because I think a 

848
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:01,520
lot of men, they suffer in 
silence. 

849
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:06,320
They don't want to voice what 
they're bottling up. 

850
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,480
And then that can lead to, you 
know, some worst case scenarios 

851
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,480
for some people. 
But just so you know, like I've 

852
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,800
got some sort of similar 
experience, not first hand, but 

853
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:21,920
there's, there's been people in 
my family that have suffered the

854
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,960
abuse of a young age and they, 
and everyone was oblivious to 

855
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,200
it, but they, they always, they 
pushed back. 

856
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,720
They, they, they were sort of 
into drinks and drugs as well. 

857
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,000
And for years we just thought 
they were, you know, tearaways 

858
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:44,000
or a bit naughty. 
And it, it wasn't until they in 

859
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,280
their later years at when they 
were an adult that they sort of 

860
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,560
came out and it's everything 
sort of made sense. 

861
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:54,960
So I can sort of deeply. 
What's the word? 

862
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,800
I can understand the story where
you come obviously not first 

863
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,640
hand, but like through having 
it, people in my family with 

864
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:04,920
similar experiences and do you 
know what really helped them was

865
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,840
health and fitness. 
Was it? 

866
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:12,040
Was it was almost like it, it 
gave them control of their 

867
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:13,840
lives. 
Again, it was something that 

868
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,160
they did for them that they 
could control. 

869
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,800
I I don't know if is, is that 
something that you found with 

870
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,000
health and fitness or, or was it
something else that you found 

871
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,640
that that helped? 
No, massively. 

872
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:29,800
Like I, I can honestly say that 
through my 20s, if I didn't, if 

873
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,680
I didn't have fitness, I don't 
know how I would have got 

874
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:35,200
through it. 
I generally believe that 

875
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,920
physical, you know, physical 
health manages your mental 

876
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:42,000
health. 
If you're physically fit, then 

877
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,240
there's a better chance. 
There's not a guaranteed chance,

878
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:47,640
but there's a better chance of 
you being mentally fit than 

879
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:51,200
there is being physically unfit.
You know, it's, it's a, it's a 

880
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,960
lot more, it's a lot more 
difficult to feel self 

881
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:58,880
confident, you know, clear mind,
kind of all the things required 

882
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,280
for you to show up and be the 
person, the best version of 

883
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,800
yourself if you're, if you're 
physically unfit. 

884
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:10,040
So I, I think that that did 
allow me to kind of get through 

885
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,080
my 20s dealing with all that 
that I was going through. 

886
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:19,080
And I often say like, you know, 
fitness was fitness was my, my 

887
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:22,840
guardrail, but also my elevator.
So my guardrail in the sense 

888
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,680
that like it just held me up. 
It kept me, it kind of kept me 

889
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,200
going. 
I'm an elevator and that now 

890
00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:31,920
it's a position where it's 
elevating me to a place that is 

891
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:37,760
the best version of myself. 
So yeah, fitness is is huge for 

892
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,840
for kind of I think dealing and 
managing those, those struggling

893
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:43,800
times. 
Definitely. 

894
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,640
What do men get wrong about sort
of in terms of mental health 

895
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,080
then? 
What are we doing wrong and how 

896
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,880
should we be approaching this 
issue? 

897
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,720
I think we're getting better at 
it, which is good. 

898
00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:02,840
I think you're seeing it a lot 
more and more that people are 

899
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:07,520
trying to encourage conversation
and you're seeing all these kind

900
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,920
of different ideas trying to get
men together into into various 

901
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,280
different environments. 
I think it just comes back, you 

902
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,600
know, back to that, that stigma,
which still I think does is, is 

903
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,040
a little bit deeply rooted in 
kind of today's Society of you 

904
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:28,200
need to be a tough man and kind 
of deal with what you're going 

905
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,640
for yourself. 
And you've, you know, a lot, a 

906
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,360
lot of people have other stuff 
going on. 

907
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,840
You know, they've got families, 
they've got jobs, they've, you 

908
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:42,760
know, there's so many things to 
think about as a man And this 

909
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,000
other thing, you don't feel like
you can address it because 

910
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,880
there's so much else going on. 
But really it's like in order to

911
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,520
better everything else that's 
going on, you need to deal with 

912
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:54,040
what's going on inside your 
head. 

913
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:58,440
Otherwise, you know, it will 
just kind of reach a point there

914
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,240
where you just crash like I did,
you know, So I think that's the 

915
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:05,800
big thing is just trying to 
trying to trying to break the 

916
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,120
stigma that it's that men 
shouldn't talk. 

917
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,120
And you know, just keep drumming
that message of, you know, we're

918
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:15,240
not alone. 
You know, there will be other 

919
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:17,240
men out there going through what
you're going through. 

920
00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:21,320
So just having having that first
conversation can be can be the 

921
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,920
start of of of a change for the 
better in your life. 

922
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,600
What does strength? 
Look like to you now compared to

923
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:37,640
10 years ago, I think it's just 
showing up for. 

924
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,880
Myself showing up for my family,
believing in myself a little bit

925
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,560
more. 
I think after my, after my 

926
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:50,200
sexual assault, I, I lost a lot 
of belief in myself, had a lot 

927
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,400
of shame over the over the 
incident and took me a long time

928
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,880
to get back to a place where I 
had any sort of self worth. 

929
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:05,520
So strength for me is just, 
yeah, having that belief in 

930
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:10,280
what, in what I'm doing and, you
know, just being there, being 

931
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,160
around loved ones and and 
friends that that want the best 

932
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,200
for me. 
You know, I think I'm very one 

933
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,760
now. 
So I think I've surrounded 

934
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,240
myself with good people, which, 
which I think is really 

935
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:23,880
important when it comes to 
mental health, is having the 

936
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:25,880
right people around you to help 
you get through it. 

937
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:30,280
And I I know I definitely did. 
So yeah, that's probably the and

938
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,200
if someone's. 
Listening that is maybe stuck or

939
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,120
silent at the moment. 
What's one step that they could 

940
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,680
take today to help solve the 
problem? 

941
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,160
It's I know, I I've. 
Talked about, you know, just 

942
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,600
having that first conversation, 
if you haven't done already, if 

943
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,720
you can try find the strength to
just have that first 

944
00:54:52,720 --> 00:54:55,840
conversation, because I know 
that that was what massively 

945
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,960
helped me and I just felt like a
weight lift off my shoulders 

946
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,400
instantly. 
It's just speaking to that first

947
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,720
person. 
But I, I do understand that it's

948
00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:08,360
not as easy as just saying speak
to someone because, you know, it

949
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,280
took me 10 years to speak to 
someone or 8, sorry, eight years

950
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,000
to speak to someone. 
So it's, I understand it's hard.

951
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,920
So I think it's just being 
better at dealing with those 

952
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,000
negative thoughts, like finding 
a way to, to deal with those 

953
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,200
negative thoughts you have in a 
healthy way. 

954
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,840
Now for me, I used to kind of 
turn to alcohol and drugs 

955
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,160
through my 20s as a, as a, as a 
solution to the problem, which 

956
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:38,680
obviously they're not just 
compounds. 

957
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,840
And you just end up feeling more
and more shame than you did 

958
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,120
before. 
Because you then realize, all 

959
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,400
right, maybe potentially 
addicted is what I'm an addict 

960
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,560
as well as feeling the shame for
my past trauma. 

961
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,320
So it's like that. 
It's just finding a healthy 

962
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,400
solution that's going to allow 
you to not deal with the 

963
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:58,960
negative thoughts, but just 
manage them. 

964
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,920
I think the keyword is manage. 
Like I still can go through, you

965
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:08,080
know, I still don't, I still 
think about the day that it 

966
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,520
happened, but I've got a lot 
better at managing those 

967
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,720
emotions and those those 
thoughts through time and just 

968
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:17,760
through experience and, you 
know, obviously therapy, 

969
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:19,880
etcetera, if that's the route 
you need to go down. 

970
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:24,760
But yeah, I'd say find a way to 
just kind of reframe your 

971
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,760
thoughts of whatever it is 
you're struggling with and. 

972
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,840
You've mentioned that obviously 
training was used as a bit of a 

973
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:36,120
mask for you back in the day. 
What does it mean to you now? 

974
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:45,120
Training? 
Training obviously is quite, 

975
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:50,680
quite general, but I think 
health and fitness is, is just 

976
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:55,360
my, it's my foundation. 
It's how I, it's how I show up 

977
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,400
in the kind of in the best 
version of myself. 

978
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:02,680
It's, you know, it's my career. 
It's, it's part of my, part of 

979
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,360
my personality. 
Like I love health and fitness, 

980
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:11,000
you know, I just, it's a hard 
that's a hard one. 

981
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,840
I haven't actually thought about
it, but I suppose it's. 

982
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:17,800
It's no longer used as a mask 
for you, right? 

983
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,760
No, no. 
It's yeah, it's no longer, it's 

984
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,280
no longer my, you know, my, my 
medicine, my coping mechanism. 

985
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:30,120
It's, it's, yeah, it's part of 
my identity. 

986
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:35,320
It's part of my DNAI think it's,
it's, it allows me to be the 

987
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:39,160
best version of myself. 
So it's, it's more than well, 

988
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,240
yeah, it's not this negative 
perception of, of fitness 

989
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,360
anymore, even though I I view it
very positively. 

990
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,600
And that allowed me to to get 
through some really hard, hard 

991
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,280
times. 
But it was obviously an 

992
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,760
unhealthy outlook on it. 
Whereas now it's I understand 

993
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,000
that the reason it was so 
positive is because of the 

994
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,760
massive health benefits it has 
on your mental health. 

995
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,320
And that's massively why I kind 
of got into coaching and why I 

996
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,120
kind of continued to pay that 
back to others is because I want

997
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:15,360
to try help as many people as 
possible get fit and healthy and

998
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,120
be more self confident and, you 
know, feel like they can show up

999
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,680
in life and, and kind of be the 
best version They they, they 

1000
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:24,560
can. 
Yeah, I think it's really. 

1001
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,040
Honourable. 
I love it because it's, it's 

1002
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,720
like you're giving back now and 
you're helping other people, 

1003
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:34,360
especially sharing the story, 
but also hands on tactile, you 

1004
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:36,600
know, with their health, with 
their fitness, guiding them 

1005
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:37,680
through. 
I think it's great. 

1006
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:43,280
And obviously you, you, you're 
doing your challenges, you're 

1007
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:45,720
getting the word out there, 
you're raising loads of money. 

1008
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,520
What's next? 
Have we got something else lined

1009
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:55,840
up for this not coming November?
Because we're in 2026 now, Yeah.

1010
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,960
I mean, haven't actually, I 
thought about it a little a 

1011
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:04,880
little bit, but I had an idea 
that I'd maybe I tried walk the 

1012
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:10,600
three peaks in 24 hours, holding
or carrying sixty KG walk the. 

1013
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,840
Three peaks. 
The the the the national three 

1014
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:16,880
peaks. 
Yeah, because you know, there's 

1015
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,200
there's a challenge that you you
do where it's it's all set out 

1016
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,440
for you, all the travelers 
organized etcetera. 

1017
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:24,160
So not walking. 
Between peaks. 

1018
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:26,880
All right, that's what I thought
you meant. 

1019
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:33,240
We came to the UK, you know, so 
you've got building Ben Nevis 

1020
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,000
and the other, the other one 
crossed my mind. 

1021
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,160
But there's a challenge you can 
do trying to do that in 24 

1022
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,360
hours. 
So I'm, I don't know, I probably

1023
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,920
need to Chuck 60 KG on my back 
first before, before I you must 

1024
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:46,680
have done Ben. 
Nevis. 

1025
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,480
Yeah, I've done, yeah, I've done
bad errors, but that that was 

1026
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,000
where my thoughts went. 
But I was like, oh, maybe I'd 

1027
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,040
need to probably dig a bit 
deeper into it first before I go

1028
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,120
ping out. 
Well, I don't know. 

1029
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,880
You've got to make it spicy. 
You've got to make it spicy. 

1030
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,120
Well, that's, that's what I try 
to do with my challenges. 

1031
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,120
You know, it's not about the 
challenge for me. 

1032
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:13,240
It's like, it's about firstly 
like shocking people for them to

1033
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,360
go, crikey, what are you doing? 
And then you've kind of got 

1034
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,080
their attention. 
And then from there you can look

1035
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:23,400
to talk about some, some, you 
know, topics around mental 

1036
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,760
health and some raise awareness 
that way. 

1037
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:29,600
So yeah, that's why I try and 
make the challenges as kind of 

1038
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,640
wacky and to shock people as 
much as possible. 

1039
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,840
So that kind of grabs their 
attention and then you can talk 

1040
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,320
about some some things that 
yeah, absolutely I think. 

1041
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:41,440
That that's half of it, isn't 
it? 

1042
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:42,640
You've got to grab their 
attention. 

1043
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,280
You've got to stop them 
scrolling. 

1044
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:48,320
So it unfortunately for you and 
your body, it's going to have to

1045
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,920
be a bit crazy, a bit spicy. 
Have you thought of maybe a full

1046
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:53,640
high rocks at the top of each 
peak? 

1047
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:58,160
I don't know. 
I don't know the logistics on 

1048
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,440
that. 
You know that would work. 

1049
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,640
I'd have to get the ski org up 
there. 

1050
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,160
That's a that's a challenge. 
That'd be great. 

1051
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:08,560
Yeah, no. 
Yeah, well, it would be, Yeah, 

1052
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,800
it would be. 
Joey, thank you very much for 

1053
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,160
your time. 
I, I really enjoyed the chat. 

1054
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:14,920
I think it was brilliant. 
And it was great to hear a bit 

1055
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:18,080
more about your story, but also 
how you're helping people, how 

1056
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,000
you're raising awareness, how 
you're raising money. 

1057
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:22,880
It's really honourable. 
It's it's, it's great to see. 

1058
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,160
So thank you very much for your 
time. 

1059
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,320
Oh. 
Thanks very much and I'll be 

1060
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:28,600
keeping. 
An eye on your socials. 

1061
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,600
I want to, I want to see what's 
going on for next November as 

1062
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,920
well, so that's good. 
Yeah, likewise. 

1063
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:34,880
Thank you. 
Oh, and. 

1064
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:36,720
If anyone wants to follow you, 
where where can they follow you 

1065
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:41,400
actually? 
Yeah, so my Instagram handle is 

1066
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:46,040
Joey O Jones under score. 
If you want to follow me and see

1067
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:47,280
all the crazy, get on it. 
Get on. 

1068
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:49,040
It thank you very much what 
catch you soon all. 

1069
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:50,520
Right. 
Cheers. 

1070
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:51,640
Thanks, Derek. 
Cheers. 

1071
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,720
Congratulations you. 
Made it to the end of the 

1072
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:55,200
episode. 
If you found value in it, please

1073
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,080
leave us a review or drop us a 
comment below. 

1074
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:59,000
And to make sure you don't miss 
another one, make sure you 

1075
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,040
follow and subscribe. 
Thanks for watching. 

1076
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:41,760
The.