Joey Jones What is the thing people obsess about when it
comes to fitness and changing their body that matters the
least? I think it's, it comes down to
people are trying to get those quick results.
I think people sometimes forget that, you know, fitness is a
journey. It's not a kind of short, quick
destination that you can get to. You want you want to get to a
point where it becomes part of your life.
You know, you know, you see a lot of these like 8 week
programs to get shredded and 12 week programs to be the best
shape of your life. And then, but that doesn't
account for, you know, time after that.
You know, you do these programs and then you're like, right,
what do I do now? And then you end up putting the
weight back on and then you just go in this vicious cycle of
achieving something and then going back to where you were.
And then, you know, you're just constantly going through that
cycle of achievement and then being upset with yourself that
you've compacted with the person you trying to escape.
So I think it's I think it's what we need to get into the
habit of doing is just finding a way of just being consistent and
making it a part of your part of your DNA, part of your, your
life and something that can be sustainable for for the rest of
your life as opposed to something that's like a short
fix. So yeah, probably that is the
primary one. In terms of say goals, then,
because it sounds like you, it's good to have a goal, right?
It keeps you motivated. You've got something to aim for.
But as you say, once you've hit that goal, there's, there is a
drop off. How, how do you combat that?
How do you get? How do you get over that
problem? I think it's good to have kind
of long term goals, something in mind, you know, that might be
like, I want to lose 10 kilos, but what happens when you don't
hit that 10 kilos? You know, does that immediately
just make you go, I've, I've failed, I've, I've not achieved
my goal. Whereas if you can kind of
change your thinking slightly and go, right, let me just set
some mini goals, right? Maybe I, maybe I'll start off by
losing a kilogram. All right, Then you take that
off, you're like, oh, great, I've, I've, I've, I've, you
know, I've lost a kilogram. Then you try and lose the second
kilogram. And then by doing that, you're
like, right, I'm building momentum here, I'm going the
right direction. I've built some good habits.
My training's good, my diet's good.
And then over time, that end goal will be more achievable
because you've set these smaller goals that are small wins
through the process. I think people can get in the
habit of setting these big goals for themselves and not actually
celebrating some of the smaller wins that happen along the
process. So yeah, I think it's about
setting yourself goals. Of course, you know, everyone
has this long those kind of long term goals that they're thinking
ahead to, but there's this big period in the middle where you
know you can still achieve stuff, you can still progress,
you can still improve in yourself and celebrate those so
that you can build momentum getting you to that.
I know for me that's always happens to me is that I've
always got a goal. I've always hit the goal and
then you fall off straight away. It's like, oh, I've earned this.
I've I, I can go back to my normal ways and it the weight
piles aren't straight away, especially if I'm not aiming for
something, if I haven't got a target or something to hold me
accountable, it's always the case.
But if it's, I mean, what's, what's the balance between
nutrition and training? Because say you did everything
right perfectly with nutrition, but you trained badly.
Would you still change your body?
Would you still get the goal? Hit your goals that you're
trying to achieve? Depends what the goal is, of
course. I think the nutrition is
probably 80% of it. Some sort of training is good.
Of course is, is, is, is vital, but that, you know, that's
dependent on the individual, you know, So for someone who's, he
already trains three to four times a week, fairly good
condition, they might need to sustain that training alongside
a good nutrition plan to achieve the goals.
Whereas if you've got someone who's very sedentary, perhaps a
little bit overweight, then you know, the first, the first step
could be just by like trying to sort out their nutrition and
just doing something simple like getting out for more walks
during the day. So again, it's coming back to
that like, right. The long term goal there for
that sedentary person is obviously to lose a lot of
weight potentially if he's overweight, but not just
throwing them into a gym where they're uncomfortable.
They're not, they're not, they're not familiar with it.
You could actually just start them off by going right, let's
just get you a bit more active before we introduce you into a
gym environment without some familiar perhaps would put them
off training. You know, they could potentially
lose a bit of weight before coming to the gym.
So yeah, it's very, it's very individual to each person.
But I think, yeah, as long as as long as you know what the
outcome you want is, then you can kind of work within the
confinements of that outcome. And what about what beliefs do
you see the people have around, say, fat loss or muscle
building? The you you think is going to
look completely ridiculous in five, five years time?
Have people got any? Does do any people's beliefs
frustrate you that you have? The biggest one for fat loss is
oh, I need to just remove carbs from my diet and that's the
that's the solution. You do not need to remove carbs
from the diet. You don't even need to stop
eating foods that you enjoy. You just need to be cautious of
the food you're eating across a given week.
OK. A common mistake people can make
is, you know, they, they look at it, they look at their macros
daily, whereas you can, obviously you can do that, but
it's better to look at across the week because what you don't
want to get in the habit of doing is completely stopping
your life. You know, stop hanging out with
your friends, stop eating the foods you enjoy, because then
you do drift back into that old self that you're trying to move
on from. What you want to get into
position of doing is finding someone that's sustainable for
you to take, take it forward. And that might so that will
mean, you know, if you want to have a few beers on the weekend,
just making sure that those adjustments are made throughout
the week to allow you to have a couple more beers on the
weekend. OK, So that's quite a common
mistake I see is people end up being really strict with
themselves during the week and then they go and you know, cane
the beers over the weekend. But if you're just a bit more
aware of kind of what you're eating during the week, managing
it and having that understanding that if I look at my calories
across a week and how much protein I'm getting in,
etcetera, then you can, you know, then you can still enjoy
like a burger, a pizza and all these things that you enjoy a
few beers, whatever it might be, wherever it might be, because
you have allowed yourself that opportunity to do that by
adjust, making those adjustments.
Is that something you do? So it's like, how do you manage
your week to in order to let you sort of enjoy yourself on the
weekends? So I'll, I'll tend because I
train quite a lot, you know, I'm currently training 7 * a week.
My, my volume of food is fairly high.
I'm not drinking too much at the moment.
But when I do like if I know I've got, I don't know, like a
stag do coming up, which I do actually in February, you know,
in the build up to that, I will be really like pretty careful
with kind of what I'm consuming and making sure that I'm kind of
giving myself the best chance of not putting up too much weight
and that sort of thing. So it's just kind of like almost
like thinking ahead about what's what's coming up and yeah, just
making those kind of healthy, better decisions that will kind
of limit the repercussions of, you know, stuff you enjoy
essentially. What do you see?
What do people think is slow in their progress then?
And then what do you think is the real limiter?
So I'll start with the real limiter.
I think it's, it's just the consistency of it is, is just
knowing, you know, always, we always talk about like you have,
you have your ceiling and then you have the floor.
And I think people think they need to get they need to keep
training at the ceiling the whole time.
But realistically, even myself, like I have days where I might,
I cannot be bothered to go in the gym and train.
But it's like, right, you just got just got to find a way to
get it done. No matter how poor the session
is, how low the weights are, whatever it is, it's just like,
that's your floor, right? It's just like the minimum, the
minimum effort that you can give, but still just showing up
and getting the work done. But then you've obviously got
your ceiling where you're feeling good and which is where
most people make the mistake of thinking, oh, I need to be at
that in order for me to, to, to train and see that progress.
But it's just about building that consistency with your
training and over time, those kind of little moments where
you've persevered and got through that thought process of,
oh, I'm not going to do it today.
Can don't feel like it. That compounds over time.
And then that's what kind of gets the real results.
Where I think people go wrong is probably that as well.
They just think, oh, I need to be, I need to be really
motivated to go to the gym. It's like nobody's always
motivated to go to the gym, you know?
It's like, I love training. I enjoy training.
It's my job to coach people, but I still have those days where
I'm like, I just don't want to go for this run or I don't want
to do this weight session. I'd much rather just go lie in
the sofa and chill. I'm feeling tired and feeling
fatigued. So yeah, it's just about kind of
overcoming those mental barriers, I guess that I think
is where people struggle and, you know, perhaps where the
thought process goes in terms of why things go wrong.
I. Suppose they could be.
The worst thing you could do is if you're not doing that
session, you start to build that habit of not training at least.
Even if you just get out there and do something, it could be
just a 10 minute warm up and that's it.
At least you're maintaining that habit of still training, still
getting out there and doing it. Exactly.
And that, that's the floor I'm talking about.
Yeah. So that's the, that's the when
you're not feeling it at all, it's like maybe you don't need
to take a walk to the gym to do a session.
Maybe it's just like, you know, you're in your, you're in your
house or your flat and you just do, I don't know, 50 push ups,
50 sit ups, 50 squats and then 20 burpees.
You know, at least that's at least you're doing something.
And then over time, you'll just get in a better habit of going.
Right. I need to.
I need to get to the gym. I don't want to, but I'm going
to. I'm going to go because I've
built up those habits of showing up even when I don't want to.
What's the smallest behavioural change that someone can do to
have the biggest impact to their body composition?
Smallest again, it, it, it always comes down to the
individual and kind of where they're currently at.
I think in terms of body competition composition, like
you just said, that people, I think people don't realize how
much they're consuming compared to how much they're, you know,
how much energy they're giving out.
So there's a lot of, you know, obviously a good thing to do is
just start tracking your food so you don't have to do it forever.
Like it's definitely, I don't do it, but it is a good tool to use
just by understanding sort of food you're consuming, OK, how
what the macros you're consuming and where you're perhaps over,
where you're perhaps under. And then you can kind of make
those adjustments once you've done that for like 4 or five
days because it just kind of gives you a visual of like,
right, Oh God, I'm, I'm eating way too many calories for, for
what I'm trying to get out for my body composition, or I'm
eating nowhere near enough protein to put on some muscle.
So then you can kind of tweak those small things just by
adding a little bit more protein to your meals or just reducing
things back a little bit if you were trying to lose a little bit
of weight. So I'd say if it comes down to
body composition, that's, that's obviously a big one is kind of
calories in, calories out. And then, yeah, it's just about,
as I touched on before, it's just finding ways to be active.
Doesn't have to be in the gym. You know, you don't have to walk
down to the gym. Obviously, strength training is
really important, and I converge for it enough.
But I realized that's not for everyone.
So it's just like, how can you, how can you start today?
Yeah. And how can you just build some
momentum slowly at a pace that that works for them?
We, we did a health Olympics in work once and one of the weeks
we had to track our steps and it was unbelievable.
Some of the people in the office because they, they get out of
bed, they jump in the car, they drive to work, they get to work,
they sit down for 8 hours a day. Then they get in the car, drive
home, go on the couch. They have less than 1000 steps a
day they were doing. I suppose that's a big eye
opener as well. I suppose tracking is important
across all areas, just at the start anyway.
So you've got a base you, you spoke about macros there.
I was wondering, like explain to me like I'm a 10 year old, what
is a macro and why is it important?
And and how do you figure it out what you need to be hitting in
terms of your macros? So a macro stands for a macro
nutrient. So you've kind of got three big
ones, which are your protein, your carbohydrates and your
fats. So your your proteins are really
important for kind of muscle repair and muscle growth.
Your carbohydrates are important for your glycosures, which gives
you energy to do stuff to train etcetera.
And then your fats are important for for a number of things
around like hormone production etcetera.
So it's important to get a good balance of those three things.
You tend to kind of want more carbohydrates, slightly more
carbohydrates. And then fats and protein,
depending on your goal again, tend to be close to close in
terms of the percentage of your total calorie intake.
So yeah, it's how you can go about discovering it.
There's loads of apps out there. My fitness powers powers kind of
the more the most generic one everyone knows, you can kind of
go in, put your goals, put your current weight, and then it can
provide you with those percentage breakdowns of of what
you need to be eating. And then it'll give you the
number of grams you want to you want to be having for each of
those macro nutrients. And then you can go from there.
And then you can start scanning what you're eating, etcetera,
etcetera. So that's as as a touched one
there that that was that would be how I would recommend it when
it comes to body composition that you can make an easy start
just by understanding what it is you're putting into your body
and what it is you need to change.
Why do people? Cut carbs out.
Their diet. Then why do people think that
they need to cut carbs out their diet in order to lose weight?
What? What is that?
It's a mix of social media influence.
I know So because you know, if you think about if you if you
restrict carbs, you're restricting the calories.
So the, the immediate thought process is, all right, I'm
losing weight because I'm restricting carbs.
But actually it's, it's because you've restricted the calories
and then you're under your, you're under your, you're under
your kind of maintenance level. Yeah.
So then you're in a calorie deficit.
So that's why you're losing weight.
But the common, the common mistake is that, well, it's not
because of the carbs, it's actually the calories.
So it's, it's it's social media influence.
And yeah, I mean, that's probably the primary reason I'd
say, I suppose, like carbs. Are associated with, I guess a
lot of calorie dense foods as well.
You've got like pizza, pasta, potatoes, chips.
And so they think, oh, if we rather than cutting out those
foods, I just cut out carbs. Maybe, I don't know, it's
obvious. Right, I know everyone.
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via the link down below. Now let's get back to the
episode. So we have I've introduced you.
Yeah. Who is Joey Jones and what you
do? So Joey Jones, first of all, I
hate talking about the career as the first one, but I think it my
career kind of finds who I am. And it's been a big change that
I made in the last year that has allowed me to get to a person I
finally feel proud of. So I'm a, I'm a personal
trainer, a coach, besides in Edinburgh, got past experience
with sport, grew up playing rugby, tried to pursue a career
in in South Africa that unfortunately didn't work out
due to multiple head knocks, and then spent about 5-6 years down
in London where I was. I worked in consultancy,
strategy and operations. And yeah, I just always, always
knew that was never the career for me.
You know, I was, I remember just like kind of waking up every day
grinding through a life that, you know, I chose yes, but which
I knew was never the right fit for me.
You know, it was kind of just like slowly eating away at me
what I was doing. And I knew, I knew I needed to
make a change. So that's when kind of last last
summer, I decided to, to leave London and leave my job.
And, you know, I wanted to find that excitement in, in a career
that I loved and something I could, you know, actually help
people in. And yeah, so that's what brought
me to be a coach. Yeah.
So rugby background, fitness has always been a big, huge part of
my life for for many reasons. And now personal trainer doing
what I love trying to trying to help people better themselves
and improve in in kind of different aspects.
Yeah. What What led you to the?
Sort of the the 9:00 to 5:00 office job then was it, were you
following a path that you sort of you felt that you needed to
go down? Yeah, that's exactly it.
It's you know that when you go through school, you know, like
when you when you have those days that where careers come in,
it's like careers day. You never see, you never see
guys from the gym or, you know, personal trainers coming in
trying to try to talk about the career career as a personal
trainer. And it's so you.
I just kind of like removed that from my mind.
Never really thought about it. Always thought like what's
what's the career that's going to be the most lucrative and
going to earn me the most money. And I was actually, other than
sport, I was actually really good at maths at school, which
is people often think, people often go, what the hell?
There's no way. They often think, I can't
believe you're a mathematician. But that was my other, I guess,
talent, you could say. So I'd actually was like, oh,
maybe I should do that at university, like if rugby
doesn't work out. So I was kind of keeping that
going alongside my rugby career. And obviously when the rugby
career ended, I had to, you know, go to university, studied
maths and quickly realized that I was a bit out of my depth
compared to a lot of other people I was studying with.
But I got through it somehow. And then, you know, and then
from then it was like, right, use your degree to get to get a,
get a job. So I actually spent a year in
Sydney after university. My brother and my sister-in-law
were living out there at the time.
So I wanted to go spend a year with them and see what job I
could do. I wasn't really thinking career
at that point, I was more thinking how can I have a good
time. So yeah, I ended up having a
good time but also lining up a really good job out there which
which then allowed me to come back to the UK, move to London
with that same company and I then worked for them for another
five years. So.
Yeah, I guess. I guess it.
Wasn't like deeply fulfilling like is, is that something what
made you want to be a personal trainer?
Where, where did you get the idea from?
And is it, is it fulfilling you so much more than it was when
you were sort of pursuing the career?
I think the, the idea came basically last last year.
I, I was going through a lot of, a lot of bad mental health
problems and that was tied into to kind of the work I was doing
and that was making things worse.
And I knew, I knew the career was never for me.
And as I said, fitness has always been a huge part of my
life. And I just kind of thought,
right, maybe I need to change my thinking, not chase the money,
not chase the, you know, the increase in the, in the
corporate ladder, like like everyone's teams to do.
Maybe I just need to do something that I get enjoyment
from and I also just get enjoyment from helping people.
And actually I'm just trying to understand people and help them
improve their lives. So I just was like, right, I'm
going to bite the bullet, leave London, leave my job, get my
qualifications, move back to Edinburgh.
And yeah, I've, I've never looked back since.
And I've obviously the best decision I've ever made is
because now I'm in a job that that I'm happy.
I'm, I'm proud to be in. I'm proud, I'm more proud of
myself. And and I know I'm a better
person when I like walk through those doors at work and I don't
have those Sunday, Sunday Blues that everyone talks about going
into my going into work on Monday.
I'm actually like excited thinking about who I'm going to
see, who I'm going to coach, what sort of conversations I'm
going to have, you know? So yeah, that's how I know I've
made the right decision. And I believe I'm in a career
that I'm, you know, I'm meant to be in there, which is great.
Yeah. And you get to go to.
Work in shorts, don't forget that.
That should be the top top of your list there.
Not right now in January, but yeah, in summer it's great if
you got the long Johns. On.
Yeah, yeah. Long Johns, track gloves, hats,
sometimes scarf when it's 0°. But I know, I know you.
Touched on there about sort of where you were a year ago, maybe
with your mental health. And you know, that's how we met
and that's how I, I came across you as the, the, the challenges
that you did for Movember, which we will touch upon in a bit.
Before we get on to that, I've got a few more questions of
about personal training and helping people get into to
fitness. So we'll, we'll, we'll answer
them and then we'll go on to the incredible challenges.
Because some are pretty mental. They are pretty mad.
What's the one thing that people avoid in training that could
make them fitter the fastest? What?
What does everyone sort of put off?
I think people just put off challenging themselves.
But when I say challenging themself, you know, is this kind
of this this phrase of like optimal challenge, right?
So every, every individual is different, you know, so someone
who's never been in the gym before, scared to train their
first challenge of that day is just showing up, just showing up
to the gym and just like getting through that hour, not pushing
the weight, not, you know, not challenge, you know, not
challenging the load like that sort of thing.
They're their first challenge is just like right during that
first session, right? That's a win, right.
And then, but then you might get someone who it was a bit more
experienced trainer that we coach and it's like, right,
again, finding their optimal challenge.
So it's like, right, what I see a lot is people just kind of
going through the motions and not kind of pushing them to to a
place where it starts to feel a little bit uncomfortable because
people, people naturally chase comfort, right?
So they they don't like sitting in there uncomfortable where
unfortunately when it comes to progression with strength or
whatever it might be, you need to get comfortable being a bit
uncomfortable. That's kind of where the growth
is. So yeah, I'd say that's a big
thing is just getting people confident to push themselves to
that place. But in a Safeway, of course,
because you don't want them moving incorrectly to try to
challenge the load. Ultimately you want them moving
well as a priority to start with.
And then over time that then you can begin to kind of increase
the challenge for each of those and push the bar a bit.
Yeah, push it a bit further. Take me for example.
Why do so many people train for years but still look the same?
I've been training for bloody years, Joey.
What am I doing wrong? Why haven't I put?
Why aren't I massive? Terry, we need to sit down for a
good hour or so. You'll need more than an.
Hour. It, it can come down to a number
of things. You know, there's your stress
levels at work, there's your sleep, there's your, you know,
we talked about, talked upon consistency of your training,
doing the right sort of things in training, You know, are you
kind of progressively overloading, you know, or are
you just staying the same thing, doing the same exercises week
and week out? They it's multifaceted.
There's so many different things that can be involved and
unfortunately that so the solution to that can't be solved
in one hour. To chat unfortunately is
something you've just got to kind of work with a coach.
Ideally, I think it is important to get a coach if you've been in
that situation for a while because they can better
understand and work with you kind of what sort of habits you
have. What, how's your sleep?
How's your stress? What's your nutrition like and
kind of look at the whole picture and then work with you
over a period of time to try improve on those things.
But yeah, I wish I could, I wish I could tell you quick clip, but
the, the quick answer is it's it's, it's more than yeah, it's
a bit. What do you see as the most?
Common reason? Do you see it?
Like is it obvious to some people?
It's like right, you're just not eating enough protein or right,
you're not, you're not doing a progressive overload.
What's the most common thing you see?
Again, it comes down to the individual and what their goals
are. But let's say someone trying to
lose, lose weight and has only been training for two months.
The common thing I see is just either dropping off, not having
that consistency, you know, perhaps coming training for
three weeks, taking a week or two off and then training again.
You know, you've got to build that consistency for a good
amount of time. Obviously there's holidays and
stuff like that that's going to appear in everyone's life for
that. That's absolutely fine.
But it's it's kind of those drop offs and you know, those weeks
where you just let your diet slip or, you know, there's kind
of multiple different reasons. But as I said, there are some
things that harder control, like your stress levels.
Sometimes you sleep. There are there are kind of
things you can do for your sleep.
But that's something I struggle with.
I'm still working on myself is is my sleep.
But yeah, it's because there's so many things involved in, in
kind of your, your progression that can, can limit your
progression in whatever you're trying to get to.
You've really just got to kind of try zoom in and, and identify
something that's potentially it and try change that.
If it's not, if it's not changing after making those big
changes to wherever that is, then you're right, it's probably
not that right? What else could it be?
And it's that's why it's just a bit a bit of investigation
required in order for you to kind of reach the the result or
the the reason for why you're potentially not moving the
direction and what would you? Say the main sort of pillars of
say muscle growth or fat loss. What are the main pillars people
need to be hitting? Because I know you said there's
a, there's a multitude of variables, but what are the main
things if you wanted to increase that size or lose that fat?
I mean, the cheapest 1 is you sleep as I touched one there,
like not getting enough sleep each night.
That seriously hinders your ability to grow muscle, but also
weight loss. So that's something you can sort
out straight away before you even step foot in the gym.
And then, yeah, it comes back to just nutrition, getting the
right food in your body, you know, Whole Foods, etcetera.
Doesn't have to be that through the whole week and through your
whole year, but it's making sure you have, you might have heard
of like the 8020 rules, like as long as we're consistent with
what we're eating 80% of the week and you have a little bit
of flexibility with 20% of that week where you can perhaps
deviate slightly from a healthy diet.
So I think, yeah, nutrition, sleep, recovery, I think people
think, you know, you need to do more to get what you get, the
outcome you're after. You can still get a really good
muscley physique from three sessions a week, as you can from
say, 5. It's just about making sure
you're doing the right things, you're recovering well and
you're pushing yourself hard in those three sessions.
OK, so then it's it's just about kind of understanding those
different things and making sure those are all at a good level.
And then you there's no doubt you'll see the progress.
How do? You train people what type of
training you do them. Like ultimately people are going
to think, right, I just need to pick Arnold Schwarzenegger's
training plan, get download that online and get after it doing
the Bros split or whatever, you know, chest on Tuesdays, legs on
Wednesdays, whatever it is in the real world.
Does that work? And if you're not, what are you
prescribing someone? So the, the people we tend to
get in through our doors are kind of your like general
population people, someone who's never been in the gym before
wanting to lose a bit of weight, wanting to be a better dad or
mom and have more energy around the house.
Like those are the sort of people, you know, I think you'll
get in most gyms that rock up for for coaching.
They're not going to benefit from, you know, a bro split
Arnold Schwarzenegger program. You know, they need to be
properly looked at and how they move to start with.
And then you've got to assess based on how they move, what is
the right starting point for them and then progressing them
at a pace that works for them and strategically giving them a
plan that's going to allow them to progress at a safe and steady
way. Whereas something like an orders
Fortuninger plan is going to maybe fit more of like someone
who's trained before, got a better experience in the gym,
knows what they're doing, doesn't need any guidance on
movement quality, how to do the movements, how to progressively
overload, etcetera. So yeah, again, it just always
comes down to the individual and meeting them where they're at
and progressing them at a pace that's going to get the best
outcome. Yeah, I suppose at the end of
the. Day we're not bodybuilders the
the everyday athlete they just want to be fit for life you know
to play with their kids and stuff exactly they they don't
need to go down the muscle beach and yeah every like.
I'd say like 3540 plus everything is about longevity
and how, how they can be better for their family and their, you
know, they're not thinking, how can I get massive biceps or pecs
like Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, like that, that doesn't
bother them. You know, you will.
I think that was like maybe 10-15 years ago where that was
where it was really big and people were trying to pursue
that. But I think nowadays it's, it's
more about connection and community and energy and, you
know, just being happy in the body there.
They've got it's, it's not about how big, how big is my 6 pack
and my pack and can I crush a beer camel?
I think people like that. But it's, I just think, yeah, it
has been a there's been a shift and the gym is for more people
now, which is definitely. Definitely right enough about
gym chat. I want to get onto your
challenges. So literally only a couple of
months ago in November, you completed what you coined the
Iron MO. Can you explain to me what is
the Iron MO and why did you design it that way?
So the Iron MO is half half Iron Man which is 1.9 kilometers
swim, 90 kilometer bike, 1/2 marathon.
Now I wanted to try spice up a little bit so I decided in the
transition. So in between the swimming, the
bike and the bike in the run, I thought I'd do full Hyrox as
well. So I don't know if everyone
knows what Hyrox is, but there's essentially a mix of running
intervals. So eight, 8 * 1 kilometre
running with eight different functional exercises involved,
which are very taxing in themselves.
So yeah, I did that. How it got brought on, I was
basically just chatting to my brother.
He does. He's like a very good
triathlete. He did it for quite a few years
in Australia and we were just talking about it and he, we were
just discussing what we could do.
And you know, I'm, I'm definitely not an endurance
sport sports person. I'm, I'm like 100 kilos, quite a
big guy. Endurance sport is made for, you
know, your 70K guys. But I thought, right, this is I
want something that's going to like really challenge me and
something that's really out my comfort zone.
So I was like, right, I'll do a half Iron Man.
I thought about an Iron Man, but I was like, no, that's insane.
Like I think even that's even outside my thought process.
But so I went half Iron Man and then two higher offices.
So that's how it came about. And it, yeah, managed to
complete it in just over 12 hours until.
So how it happened? Yeah.
How was your experience in the Iron Man disciplines?
You know, had you swam before? Because a lot of the time people
don't swim, you know, like, had you swam before?
Were you a bit of a runner? Were you ever on the bike?
Or are these completely new? So my brother always said I've
got the water dynamics of a brick.
Before that, that was the biggest challenge actually, was
just getting trained to swim properly.
Like I've always been a terrible swimmer, fairly decent runner.
Like I just ran a just run a marathon about 8 weeks before
that and a full marathon mess. OK, cool.
Yeah. Yeah.
So I did that like 8 weeks before.
So I was, it was good because they'd given me a bit of
training for the running already.
So I knew the running I was OK with.
And then the bike, the bike was just about grinding it out.
You know, I kind of treated the bike as a bit of a rest period,
you could say just to kind of get some fuel in and yeah,
recover, even though it was about just under 3 hours on the
bike. But the swimming was the
hardest. I had to like really work on
that and improve in that area. But again, it was, you know, the
swimming is under an hour. So I did that in like 45
minutes. So I actually did did pretty
well in that in the end, but getting to that point was was
probably the challenging bit the training.
I actually think the training for it was maybe worse than the
actual as it as it. Should you've got to get ready,
haven't you? You know, you've got to prepare
yourself for the onslaught. Like how long did you train?
How long did you give yourself? So because of I was, I said he's
training for that marathon. And then after that I was like,
oh God, I have like 6. I wanted to give myself a bit of
rest after the marathon. So I had six weeks to train for
for this challenge, having very little swimming experience,
never really done that sort of length on a bike.
But luckily with the running and the high rock stuff I've done,
you know, I've done a double S high rocks before and done that
sort of training before. So felt fairly confident in
that, although big difference in doing it in a high rocks and
doing, you know, 90 kilometer bike and then doing rocks.
I can imagine that was a bit. How did you structure?
Your training week What did what did your training training week
look like? It consisted of two runs, 2
swims, 2 cycles and then a mix of kind of high rocks and one of
the other kind of modalities. So I tried to just kind of cover
all, all modalities twice a week and then try and mix, get a
blend of a blend of two of them in a in a day or two as well.
So I think I was training up to like 10 times in a week, which
was yeah, that's quite a lot. Yeah.
How did you break it? Down Like, what were you doing
on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday? I mean, depending on kind of
work shifts and stuff, but I would kind of look at my look at
when I was working and just kind of adjust it based on that.
But it would, it would usually be either like swim early
morning and then do my do my work and then run or gym at the
end or long cycle in the morning.
I tend to do the cycle, run, swims in the morning if I can
just get up early and do it and then whatever's left in the
evening to try to get myself like a little bit of recovery
from the previous session. But sometimes I'd have to do
them just one after the other because I'd be working like 12
to late or something. So I'd have to just get
everything done in the morning. Yeah, I just just find a way.
There probably wasn't the right way to do it, but it was just
like it had to, it had to be done.
So did the training work? When did you feel prepared going
in? So I went into it with a
strained calf and ended off my ankle.
So I wasn't going into it in the best, the best shape to be
honest. But it got me definitely got me
ready. In terms of my swimming was the
big one I was worried about because it's the first, the
first, first part of the challenge.
And I was really worried that I was just going to be like
drowning and really struck most of that.
And then I would have just absolutely burned myself out.
My shoulders would have been knackered and my legs.
And I just thought if I don't get the swimming right, that
rest of the day is going to be horrendous.
So thankfully I managed to get to a place where I felt fairly
confident with the swimming. It was probably after the bike.
The second high rocks was where I really, I really crashed.
I like felt just my whole body was just broken.
My both my legs completely cramped up.
So I had to just quickly recover from that.
And then it didn't help that on that cold Edinburgh day, it was
like blowing a Gale. So then I had to do as I said,
she did 52 laps of a of a track in Edinburgh as well.
So half marathon around a windy track, the cold.
So yeah, all the yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't, Yeah, the
weather wasn't, was pretty against me on the day.
But yeah, managed to get through and I had had a really good
support around me, you know, family, friends, people from
work supported me in terms of like just making sure I'm
getting my nutrition on at the right time and stuff like that.
So definitely having a bit of a team and support that network
around me got me through. Yeah, was.
There a time where you thought I can't do this, and if there was,
how did you power through those sort of negative times?
Honestly, that there wasn't. I didn't.
I think I just, I believed in my, my mental strength to get
through it no matter what. Like even if my body broke down,
I was still going to find a way to to just get through it, no
matter how long it took. I did have a goal in mind at the
beginning of like trying to get it done under 14.
So I like completely smashed that, which is great.
So everything went as well as it could do.
And I just, I think over my experiences and what I've been
through in the past, My mental strength is kind of what, what I
knew was going to separate me from not achieving it and
achieving it. So, yeah, never really had a
doubt that I was going to complete it.
Had a doubt that maybe I might not get it under 14 hours.
But that was, you know, the, the, the question of finishing
was never, was never. And you.
You. Were raising money for Movember
mental health charity. Yeah, that's correct.
Obviously that's. An important charity to you,
yourself. Can you explain why?
You picked Movember and why it's why is it so important that you
were raising money and highlighting the issues that are
surrounded by that charity? Yeah, so November was a charity
that just came, came to me at a point in my life when I was.
Yeah, I wasn't in a good place. I was really struggling with
depression and mental health through my 20s and I was trying
to deal with some trauma that had happened in my, when I was
20 years old when I was pursuing a career in South Africa.
I, I was, I was sexually assaulted at 20 years old and
didn't, didn't deal with it in the right way at all.
I, you know, I stayed quiet for starters.
I just just kind of dealt with it myself.
I tried to just kind of push through the pain, never wanted
to ask for help. And I think it came to kind of
boiling point. And then once I finally spoke to
someone and realized how how good it felt just for me to
finally be open and vulnerable about what what I'd been
through. And then it was from that I then
wanted to try find ways to to be more open.
And November kind of gave me the platform to do that.
So, So, yeah, that's essentially like why last year before like a
couple weeks before November or November started, I kind of went
on camera and I told my story on Instagram just because I was
like, right. I want to, I want to try to get
across the message to as many people as possible about kind of
being open and vulnerable about your own struggles and your own
mental health. And so, yeah, I wanted to try
hopefully pass that on to others.
And I then I realized from that I kind of, I needed to confront
kind of my own monsters in order for me to find peace as well
with what had happened. And from that I've managed to,
you know, raise a lot of money from November, which is awesome.
But but but for me, what's been great from it is just how much
my messages kind of resonate with people.
And I've had people just reaching out to me off the back
of last year, what what I did and saying how much that's given
them strength to go and speak about their own struggles with
someone. And so that was, that was more
yeah, that that sort of like sense of yeah, it it, it allowed
me to turn my, my pain into, into purpose.
Essentially. I want it gave me, it allowed me
to kind of flip my trauma on its head and go actually, well, I
can do so I can do some good with this now.
Like this is this is helping people meet my my ability to be
open with what what I've gone through.
And that's from there. I was like, right, this member
is a charity hugely important to me.
And I want to continue year on year to try do all I can to
raise money, but just kind of continue that message of men
being a little bit more open with one another and talking.
You said that. It really helped you like
finally addressing it and talking about it.
Did it? Did it feel like you no longer
had to sort of mask or not avoid confronting the issue that you
were putting to the back of your mind?
Is that, is that what I sort of allowed you to do, to be be more
of yourself? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I think for so, so many years in
my 20s, I was putting on this image that I was just like, you
know, outgoing fungi had it, had it all figured out.
And you know, when really I was, you know, really I was just
massively struggling and trying to find ways to to kind of,
yeah, as you said, mask what I was really good, what was really
going on. So yeah, it just, it just
allowed me to really just bring everything to the surface and
just finally accept, accept what had happened and come, as I
said, come to peace with what had happened and and then start
to use it for for some good. So yeah, definitely the more
conversations I had, the more, you know, for instance, like
this, right, two years ago, there's not a chance I could
have done this. So like I'm today, I'm viewing
this as like, great, great to do because I'm like, if I think
about to myself two years ago he would, there's no way he would
believe that I'd be doing this right now.
So yeah, that I'm proud of that growth for myself.
And that's what I want to try. You know, the message I want to
try get across to as many people as possible through November and
through the challenges I do is it might feel awful now,
whatever you're going through, but there is kind of a light at
the end of the tunnel. You know, you can find a way
through. And it's not going to say it's
easy, not going to say it doesn't take time because it's
taken me a long time to get to where I am today.
But it is possible. So that's the message I try try
to get across. Yeah, I think it's brilliant.
I think it's brilliant what you're doing because I think a
lot of men, they suffer in silence.
They don't want to voice what they're bottling up.
And then that can lead to, you know, some worst case scenarios
for some people. But just so you know, like I've
got some sort of similar experience, not first hand, but
there's, there's been people in my family that have suffered the
abuse of a young age and they, and everyone was oblivious to
it, but they, they always, they pushed back.
They, they, they were sort of into drinks and drugs as well.
And for years we just thought they were, you know, tearaways
or a bit naughty. And it, it wasn't until they in
their later years at when they were an adult that they sort of
came out and it's everything sort of made sense.
So I can sort of deeply. What's the word?
I can understand the story where you come obviously not first
hand, but like through having it, people in my family with
similar experiences and do you know what really helped them was
health and fitness. Was it?
Was it was almost like it, it gave them control of their
lives. Again, it was something that
they did for them that they could control.
I I don't know if is, is that something that you found with
health and fitness or, or was it something else that you found
that that helped? No, massively.
Like I, I can honestly say that through my 20s, if I didn't, if
I didn't have fitness, I don't know how I would have got
through it. I generally believe that
physical, you know, physical health manages your mental
health. If you're physically fit, then
there's a better chance. There's not a guaranteed chance,
but there's a better chance of you being mentally fit than
there is being physically unfit. You know, it's, it's a, it's a
lot more, it's a lot more difficult to feel self
confident, you know, clear mind, kind of all the things required
for you to show up and be the person, the best version of
yourself if you're, if you're physically unfit.
So I, I think that that did allow me to kind of get through
my 20s dealing with all that that I was going through.
And I often say like, you know, fitness was fitness was my, my
guardrail, but also my elevator. So my guardrail in the sense
that like it just held me up. It kept me, it kind of kept me
going. I'm an elevator and that now
it's a position where it's elevating me to a place that is
the best version of myself. So yeah, fitness is is huge for
for kind of I think dealing and managing those, those struggling
times. Definitely.
What do men get wrong about sort of in terms of mental health
then? What are we doing wrong and how
should we be approaching this issue?
I think we're getting better at it, which is good.
I think you're seeing it a lot more and more that people are
trying to encourage conversation and you're seeing all these kind
of different ideas trying to get men together into into various
different environments. I think it just comes back, you
know, back to that, that stigma, which still I think does is, is
a little bit deeply rooted in kind of today's Society of you
need to be a tough man and kind of deal with what you're going
for yourself. And you've, you know, a lot, a
lot of people have other stuff going on.
You know, they've got families, they've got jobs, they've, you
know, there's so many things to think about as a man And this
other thing, you don't feel like you can address it because
there's so much else going on. But really it's like in order to
better everything else that's going on, you need to deal with
what's going on inside your head.
Otherwise, you know, it will just kind of reach a point there
where you just crash like I did, you know, So I think that's the
big thing is just trying to trying to trying to break the
stigma that it's that men shouldn't talk.
And you know, just keep drumming that message of, you know, we're
not alone. You know, there will be other
men out there going through what you're going through.
So just having having that first conversation can be can be the
start of of of a change for the better in your life.
What does strength? Look like to you now compared to
10 years ago, I think it's just showing up for.
Myself showing up for my family, believing in myself a little bit
more. I think after my, after my
sexual assault, I, I lost a lot of belief in myself, had a lot
of shame over the over the incident and took me a long time
to get back to a place where I had any sort of self worth.
So strength for me is just, yeah, having that belief in
what, in what I'm doing and, you know, just being there, being
around loved ones and and friends that that want the best
for me. You know, I think I'm very one
now. So I think I've surrounded
myself with good people, which, which I think is really
important when it comes to mental health, is having the
right people around you to help you get through it.
And I I know I definitely did. So yeah, that's probably the and
if someone's. Listening that is maybe stuck or
silent at the moment. What's one step that they could
take today to help solve the problem?
It's I know, I I've. Talked about, you know, just
having that first conversation, if you haven't done already, if
you can try find the strength to just have that first
conversation, because I know that that was what massively
helped me and I just felt like a weight lift off my shoulders
instantly. It's just speaking to that first
person. But I, I do understand that it's
not as easy as just saying speak to someone because, you know, it
took me 10 years to speak to someone or 8, sorry, eight years
to speak to someone. So it's, I understand it's hard.
So I think it's just being better at dealing with those
negative thoughts, like finding a way to, to deal with those
negative thoughts you have in a healthy way.
Now for me, I used to kind of turn to alcohol and drugs
through my 20s as a, as a, as a solution to the problem, which
obviously they're not just compounds.
And you just end up feeling more and more shame than you did
before. Because you then realize, all
right, maybe potentially addicted is what I'm an addict
as well as feeling the shame for my past trauma.
So it's like that. It's just finding a healthy
solution that's going to allow you to not deal with the
negative thoughts, but just manage them.
I think the keyword is manage. Like I still can go through, you
know, I still don't, I still think about the day that it
happened, but I've got a lot better at managing those
emotions and those those thoughts through time and just
through experience and, you know, obviously therapy,
etcetera, if that's the route you need to go down.
But yeah, I'd say find a way to just kind of reframe your
thoughts of whatever it is you're struggling with and.
You've mentioned that obviously training was used as a bit of a
mask for you back in the day. What does it mean to you now?
Training? Training obviously is quite,
quite general, but I think health and fitness is, is just
my, it's my foundation. It's how I, it's how I show up
in the kind of in the best version of myself.
It's, you know, it's my career. It's, it's part of my, part of
my personality. Like I love health and fitness,
you know, I just, it's a hard that's a hard one.
I haven't actually thought about it, but I suppose it's.
It's no longer used as a mask for you, right?
No, no. It's yeah, it's no longer, it's
no longer my, you know, my, my medicine, my coping mechanism.
It's, it's, yeah, it's part of my identity.
It's part of my DNAI think it's, it's, it allows me to be the
best version of myself. So it's, it's more than well,
yeah, it's not this negative perception of, of fitness
anymore, even though I I view it very positively.
And that allowed me to to get through some really hard, hard
times. But it was obviously an
unhealthy outlook on it. Whereas now it's I understand
that the reason it was so positive is because of the
massive health benefits it has on your mental health.
And that's massively why I kind of got into coaching and why I
kind of continued to pay that back to others is because I want
to try help as many people as possible get fit and healthy and
be more self confident and, you know, feel like they can show up
in life and, and kind of be the best version They they, they
can. Yeah, I think it's really.
Honourable. I love it because it's, it's
like you're giving back now and you're helping other people,
especially sharing the story, but also hands on tactile, you
know, with their health, with their fitness, guiding them
through. I think it's great.
And obviously you, you, you're doing your challenges, you're
getting the word out there, you're raising loads of money.
What's next? Have we got something else lined
up for this not coming November? Because we're in 2026 now, Yeah.
I mean, haven't actually, I thought about it a little a
little bit, but I had an idea that I'd maybe I tried walk the
three peaks in 24 hours, holding or carrying sixty KG walk the.
Three peaks. The the the the national three
peaks. Yeah, because you know, there's
there's a challenge that you you do where it's it's all set out
for you, all the travelers organized etcetera.
So not walking. Between peaks.
All right, that's what I thought you meant.
We came to the UK, you know, so you've got building Ben Nevis
and the other, the other one crossed my mind.
But there's a challenge you can do trying to do that in 24
hours. So I'm, I don't know, I probably
need to Chuck 60 KG on my back first before, before I you must
have done Ben. Nevis.
Yeah, I've done, yeah, I've done bad errors, but that that was
where my thoughts went. But I was like, oh, maybe I'd
need to probably dig a bit deeper into it first before I go
ping out. Well, I don't know.
You've got to make it spicy. You've got to make it spicy.
Well, that's, that's what I try to do with my challenges.
You know, it's not about the challenge for me.
It's like, it's about firstly like shocking people for them to
go, crikey, what are you doing? And then you've kind of got
their attention. And then from there you can look
to talk about some, some, you know, topics around mental
health and some raise awareness that way.
So yeah, that's why I try and make the challenges as kind of
wacky and to shock people as much as possible.
So that kind of grabs their attention and then you can talk
about some some things that yeah, absolutely I think.
That that's half of it, isn't it?
You've got to grab their attention.
You've got to stop them scrolling.
So it unfortunately for you and your body, it's going to have to
be a bit crazy, a bit spicy. Have you thought of maybe a full
high rocks at the top of each peak?
I don't know. I don't know the logistics on
that. You know that would work.
I'd have to get the ski org up there.
That's a that's a challenge. That'd be great.
Yeah, no. Yeah, well, it would be, Yeah,
it would be. Joey, thank you very much for
your time. I, I really enjoyed the chat.
I think it was brilliant. And it was great to hear a bit
more about your story, but also how you're helping people, how
you're raising awareness, how you're raising money.
It's really honourable. It's it's, it's great to see.
So thank you very much for your time.
Oh. Thanks very much and I'll be
keeping. An eye on your socials.
I want to, I want to see what's going on for next November as
well, so that's good. Yeah, likewise.
Thank you. Oh, and.
If anyone wants to follow you, where where can they follow you
actually? Yeah, so my Instagram handle is
Joey O Jones under score. If you want to follow me and see
all the crazy, get on it. Get on.
It thank you very much what catch you soon all.
Right. Cheers.
Thanks, Derek. Cheers.
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