What are people getting wrong with their running training at
the moment? What I've learnt over the last
20 years of being in the personal training game and
fitness running races is there's an abhorrent amount of lack of
knowledge online and people are willingly following it and then
getting injured or falling out. The love of the running.
So the bottom line, my whole message and it's been a bit
misconstrued here. I'm going to put it out there
because I harp on about easy running now right?
And it's always been a case, but what people are taking that for
is Lisa, as all you're running should be easy.
That is not my message. My message is you can't grab
Deborah from down the road, right?
That's been inactive for 20 years.
Take her to running club and then on a Tuesday she's doing
sprints, on a Thursday she's doing tempo and then on a
Saturday she's doing a fast long run.
You can't do it easy. Running is all about effort
level and pace and heart rate. If you were to start running
now, you'd come to me and you want to do a plan and I was not
off the easy and I'd give you these three hard sessions.
You would see progression really, really quick.
But the problem being is a capacity, right?
You're you can only maintain that level of output for a
certain amount of time before your body goes hold on fuck this
I'm done right. So the easy running you have to
build a base now without getting too scientific your your body
and your muscles, right. Mitochondria is is the power
power surge of of endurance training to build mitochondria
Deborah that's joined running club needs to have an aerobic
base. How do I prescribe or how do I
do it? And what works is called math.
So maximum aerobic function. Back in the 70s, there was a a
guy that was into as a coach and he was into training and sort of
locking things a different way. Now Phil Maffatone is his name,
right? And he came up with this method
whereby he formed this calculation because everybody
knows that 220 minus your age is absolute crap.
Is that that's for heart rate training?
Yeah, so math is basically hard rate training.
So everybody knows the 220. If you go in all my maths
hardware, it's 220 minus my age. It's not because if you actually
went out and done the test, you'd you'd be shocked.
So he he developed the A formula let's say and he started
coaching people and one of the stand out ones for me was Dave
Allen, now triathlon. He Dave Allen was never winning
races. He took on board coaching with
film Afatone and he started training 180 minus his age.
All his easy runs were at that pace.
He'd already had a base anyway. She was sprinkling in some speed
sessions. He ended up winning six world
triathlons on a bounce. Not bad.
So I looked at this. I was sick of getting injured.
You know, I was Deborah going to running club doing sprinting on
a Tuesday, balls out tempo on a Thursday.
There was, there was no way I was in tempos on.
And then there was a Dick swinging competition on the
Sunday so you could run the fastest for the longest.
I was that guy. I've got an, I'd pull up with
car strains, hamstring strains, and I was like, all right,
there's got to be a different way to training.
And that's when I found math and I started, do you know what?
I've got to build a base. So like when you're building a
house, you lay your solid foundations and then you build
off that. Then you can add your speed
sessions. So I started it in 2000 and 1818
and started building math and training slow and for a long
while I was the non drinker. So I was the odd one out.
Everybody's looking at me. He's like, I was training and I
was saying I was going to run the sub three hour marathon.
And they were like, oh you're doing 10 minute miles, you're
never going to get sub three. But what I was doing is in my
long runs, I was targeting marathon pace.
Now switching back a bit, right, going back to that message on
social media where I keep saying, look, your easy runs are
not easy. If you're going out right?
And your easy runs heart rate wise, now you can never really
go off a off a wrist strap because it's invariable you
can't get accurate. They're the best Archer.
They're not 100% chest strap or arm strap.
If you're going out and you're only one 60s and you're thinking
that's an easy run because you can say a couple of words, it's
fucking not easy. I'd be dying.
I see it all the time though. And this is where strap police
came in, right? I see it all the time because
people saying, oh, this is an easy run because they haven't
got an understanding. Every run is Max out.
So I continue training in this math, making sure every session
has to have a purpose, right? Every run.
So when you go for a run, it's just, oh, I feel like going for
a run today. No, it has to have a purpose.
What is that run giving you in that day?
Is it 1 recovery 2, Are you trying to build a little bit of
endurance? Three, are you trying to work on
your VO2 Max with sprints, hell reps or are you trying to get
your race pace in specific right?
It has to have a purpose. So I started training, I was
consistent. I tried for three hours on in 19
so the year after and I run three O 1.
Really. What was it before?
Like before you got down to that?
I never run. You've never got that far.
I'd only run one marathon so I'm an ultra runner.
That's me through and through. I've never been the fastest
slope like short distance. My 5 KPB is like 1624.
It's pretty still pretty bloody good, yeah.
Yeah. But it's not when you talk about
the guys now like your fourteens, your fifteens,
that's, that's becoming the norm, right?
Like you, I don't. I don't know who you run with.
You're not on social media, right?
And that's the norm now, like 15 minutes for a 5K.
It's just like, Oh yeah, that's, that's just standard now, so.
It can feel like that. Yeah, from sitting back and
looking on social media, people scrolling that this sort of
seems out to reach. And this is what the sub three
was. And like when I went on, I was
like, I'm I'm being religious and every easy run was like so
strict to math. I run 301.
I was fucking devastated. Devastated, I did.
Elated. Like that's such a good time.
One minute. Yeah, I know.
Yeah, one minute. So yeah, I was.
I was just like, you know what, there's something in this
because I'd run every single day.
What it does then it's like it allows you to recover faster.
I was like, I've got to go for it again and I run 257 six
months later. I'm not changing anything, just
making sure all my easy runs were math and all my marathon
paced ones were slightly above marathon, marathon pace.
So for I work in kilometres, I'm going to get a lot of stick for
that. I know it's 415 per kilometre,
417. Right if somewhere I kept my
brains. Yeah, right there we are, 652.
Thank you. Very.
For a sub. For a sub three, so my marathon
paced efforts were always around 4 O eight or four O 9, so 640
per mile. So I was training my body to run
at that pace a little bit fast. That's when it comes to race
day. It doesn't feel unnatural.
The problem being now is because I've harped on about easy
running. Everybody's got a lead.
Just running runs easy. That's not the message.
Like you, you have to build the base.
You can't expect to jump in. All right, you might see some
rapid benefits if you if you do it, but you won't be in running
long because you'll fucking injure yourself.
I mean, you said you talked about Deborah.
I don't think it's just Deborah. It's people like me too.
Yeah, not everyone. Yeah, whenever I come back from
running or like a spell of not running and going back into it.
Are you? I would literally start with a
mile and I would jog a mile three times a week, one mile,
three times a week to get back in because so many times you go
tendonitis flares up and stuff. We're too old now, Lee, we're
all workhorses. Well, happy birthday.
I'm 41 as well. There we are.
But it's like it's this is everyone, especially as as we're
ageing, we, we can't, we can't, we're not 20 years old anymore.
We have to take it easy. And I, I completely agree with
the the building the base, completely agree with the bill.
You need to build the base. You can't imagine getting
Deborah to do track work. This is what happens.
Though I've seen it, this is what happens.
I'm not even joking. Like you could.
You could go right now. You could go now and join
Penarth running club and pound to a pinch of shit.
On Tuesday you will be doing sprints, on Thursday you'll be
doing tempo, and on Saturday or Sunday you'll be doing a long
run regardless of what you've done before, right?
You can be pulling hammies. It happens, it happens.
So I think it's the the lack of understanding.
And like I said earlier, it's like who do they listen to?
Like where does it come from? Whatever training methodology
you pick, it could be MAF, it could be Zone 2, it could be the
Norwegian double S or whatever you pick, it's going to have a,
an effect on you and work right for, for a set amount of time.
We're locking a long job and we're 41 now, but we've, we've
got to be in there for the long run, you know, and it's, it's
about being sensible in your training and actually running
easy to allow you to run harder That, that is the.
That's the message. That's the message in a
nutshell, right? I know everyone here hates
adverts, but this one actually keeps the light on here at
Rockman, so bear with me. Rockman runs monthly online
running and fitness challenges for people short on time that
still want a proper challenge to spike their motivation.
You get the buzz of race day without waiting for a far off
event to come around with no travel and no extortionate entry
fees. Just real test that you can fit
in and around your life, anytime, anywhere, all year
round. And if you're not going ready
for a challenge yet, we've got free nonsense running and
strength plans that you can grab via the link down below.
Now let's get back to the episode.
I know we're 41. I don't think I've peaked jet
fleetly. I've still there's.
I don't not. He's not a blood granddad, but I
was brought up with him, right? There's a granddad, my brother's
granddad. At what age do you think all his
PBS came? But I mean you you'd assume it's
30. 55. 5055. Five, he run a 117, half a 238
marathon. 117. Yep, 55 years old. 50 Is he
still going? He stopped two years ago, so
he's 90, 193591. Our best years are still there,
like ahead of us. Years ago, he stopped three
years ago because he pulled a quad and it wouldn't repair.
But he's still active, still goes out.
So he stopped running three years ago, like 80878080 years.
So yeah, 55. So our best years are ahead.
But we still got it. The future's there.
Now I want to know, so you talked about maths.
What's the difference then between heart rate training math
or is it the same? It's it's it's by and by the
same, right? What Philip Afetone has done is
he's bracketed a certain percentage of people that are
different ages. So as we said, 220 minus your
ages is nonsense. He's used this calculation to
bracket that. All easy runs.
So it's 180 minus your age. So for us, right.
Yeah, oldies, it'd be 139 and that would be our maximum cap
that we could run at, right. So if you were doing, and he
does benchmark tests, right, every four weeks, they're 8
kilometres or five miles for you.
And you, you don't go over that heart rate.
You want to try and keep the thing flat and then all your
easy training. If you have, if you haven't
built the base, you should be doing it for about minimum three
months I'd say, right without any speed training.
Just to build up that base first, yeah.
But test every four weeks. I've just done right my first
math test on returning from injury and I am over 6 1/2
minutes faster in one month. And that's from and what is your
training looked like in that month?
Just all easy. Just all easy, all easy.
And so in this 5 miles 6 minutes faster.
Faster, my first one, it was 49 minutes, 4949 seconds and that
was my return to training. The good thing about that right,
is 5 miles for some people might be a bit of a distance.
But because of my background, 20 years of running, it's never the
distance that kills people, but it's always the pace, right?
So this is when it comes to ultras, like anybody could run
an ultra if they fit an able bodied.
It's never the distance that kills, it's always a pace.
So if you set off too fast, you're burning your tort, your
matches too soon, right? So 5 miles from me, coming back
to training isn't out of the ordinary.
So I've done my first one made sure.
But there's a caveat to this. So the test is 180 minus your
age. However, if you're injured or
you haven't trained consistently in the last two years, you take
away 5, right? So for me it was 135 because
I've only just turned 41. But on the other hand, if you're
constantly training, you haven't got any injuries or illnesses,
you can add five. So then your math would be 144.
So that would be your ceiling and.
Is that what you call? So this, this number you call
that you call math, That's my. Maximum aerobic function, not
maps. Not maps, no, I was getting it
wrong in the text on there. The maps you came in with your
encompassed and yeah, we need to do Easterns and.
Northerns. So that, so you've established
your math, you've done your test and you're recommending.
So is it like 3-4 times a week easy runs?
What sort of distances now right and.
This. Let's break it right down.
Let's give someone a right? Plan.
So this is where there lies some ambiguity right now.
Math was developed and this coach was coaching high level
athletes and much like the professional athletes now and
the elites, it's often based off high mileage, right?
So if somebody was to start running, it would be so
difficult to start running math. For me when I first started, I'm
walking inclines that are like pavements because my heart rate
elevates too much. You have to have the discipline
to to stop and walk. Now, whilst for some people
their math might be a fast walk, that is the stage you're at now.
It has to be that way. Like that is telling you where
you're at cardiovascularly now in regards to the high mileage
thing and and the math, I think Phil Math Torn prescribes like
16 weeks, sometimes six months depending on if you plateau.
So when you're doing your tests, your four weekly tests, if you
start seeing plateau, right, that's when the time is to add
speed sessions in. So if after if after four months
you're not making any progression and your time isn't
decreasing, that's when you can go.
Do you know what? My base is good now.
Now I need to add in some speed training or like intervals or
hill reps Problem being because most of us are full time working
mum's dads, we're not high mileage runners.
So this is where math falls by the wayside because they go out,
they've got a set amount of time.
Let's say when we structure when obstructional plan, my first
question will be how long do you have in the day spare?
Like how long can you allocate? Is it 40 minutes, 45, right?
So what tends to happen then is let's say we work through the
week, we work 40 hours, we've got kids, right?
We go, right? We've got 40 minutes.
Mentality goes, I need to get the most of these 40 minutes.
I best make this run worth it and go hard and then math's
gone. Because you can make you can.
So that's what's happening. Then you can muck up the
training by by pushing too hard. It's this is all about it's
working that math heart rate song and math.
Just just put math into base math, cardiovascular, base math,
fitness. They're one of the same, right?
And if you're going out and doing these sessions, I used to
think when I first started running, right before I got
qualified as a, as a personal trainer, that every run had to
be balls out. And if I wasn't sweating when I
come back, I hadn't worked hard enough.
But you're putting yourself in a deficit.
Your body, right, has to recovery is the most important
thing, right? And what math does is it allows
you to recover because your, your intensity is at such that
you're not putting your body into the next energy levels like
your LT2, right, lactate threshold tool, which is once
for me, 164 and above. So I can recover quicker by
going out and doing runs that are not math.
What's happening is your energy expenditures here.
You go up and do another run. You're not recovering because
you've gone out again. Then you've gone out again, and
then there's a line there where the body goes, Fuck this.
I can't take any more. Yeah.
Because when you're recovering actually because your body's
been through sort of like maybe it's sort of like a trauma when
you go on a run, yet that's a trauma for your body, your
natural baseline heart rate rises.
Yeah. So if you're not recovering,
then that math heart rate is going to rise as well and you're
not focusing on it then I guess is that would that be true?
Yeah. It effects.
It that way it does yeah. So no easy run is the same,
right. So when you go out, you could go
out today. Now go and do the 8K or five
mile math test and run 50 minutes less.
Say go out tomorrow and do it again and feel dreadful because
you've had shit sleep. Your kids have kept you up all
night. You've had stress all day and
work and run 53 minutes because we're we're depending on the day
we've had will depend on how your body is right.
So it's about being strict with the math.
Now I've I've I'm not preaching to be like physio or any any of
that way inclined, but I've been doing, I've been running.
Now I'm I'm 41. I was in the army for 20 years.
I've been a personal I was a physical training instructor in
the Army from 2007. I've raced all over the world.
I know how my body works and I know what it responds to.
And for me, the only thing that's worked is is math
training because I'm keeping my. Training at such an intensity
level that I can get to those high mileages really quickly
because I could go out in the morning now and do 10K at math,
do a full day work and providing I've got a motivation at the end
of the day, go out, do another 10K at math and not feel
fatigued, not feel tired because of you, you're at that such
intensity that it allows that. And this is where math comes in
into like last year that I was running 20 hour weeks right at
most. And like most of that was at
math 20 hours a week. Yeah.
Where'd? You find the time for that.
Hour in the morning, hour and a night, and then 4-5 hours every
day on the weekend. But because you were running at
this lower intensity, you were able to handle.
And the fitness isn't seen well this.
I'd run the sub three hour marathon from it like and my
longest run was. If you look back on my plan, my
longest runs were 16 miles. I never went over 16 miles and
only my long run had the pasting.
That was it. So when when do you start
introduce? Like if you start, do you do
speed work? Only if you've got a base.
So let's let's say we're taking two people, right?
One's been training for a year, consistently 3-4 times a week
like the average person possibly does.
They work full time, they've got kids.
The other one hasn't trained at all.
This one that's been training consistently takes a math, math
calculation and he's 40 years old, 180 managed your age.
But because he's been training consistently, he can now add
five. So it's 145.
What he can do First off is do a benchmark test, which is the
five mile at your math heart rate.
But because he's been training consistently, he could, for, for
reference, do two or three weeks at math only and then he can
start incorporating speed because he's been training this
person that hasn't done any training and is starting math.
Bearing in mind your average person is going to run three to
four times a week. And as I've already stated, math
is normally based off high mileage, right?
They're going to need a massive base.
So they could be 456 months with even without even introducing
speed. But are you going to are you
going to be that disciplined to do it?
It's. Going to be tough.
Are you going to be that disciplined to do it?
That's the thing, like I was in 2018, I was really disciplined
even though I come from a base of running right and I had that
background of fitness. I kept it math for six weeks
completely before I started introducing my on my long runs
is where I put my marathon pier sessions in and I think that's
not spoken about is math is about the cardiovascular base,
but it's also about the diet and using fat for energy.
It's a keto running thing, right?
OK, OK, I didn't know this. Yeah.
Plot twist, Yeah. Whilst I say I run a math, a bit
of a fraudster because I'm not keto.
Right, OK. So math is when when we run, we
got glycogen usually lasts depending on on the athlete or
or the person 45 minutes to an hour before you completely
depleted of glycogen, right. Math is is based and it was it
was focused and invented around the fact that we build a
cardiovascular base. But because we're doing those
long miles at such a effort to the body level that we're using
fat for energy, right? So these ultra runners doing the
training become fat adapted. That is one thing I'm not.
No keto's hard. I've done it.
You've done it. I've.
Done it. I've done it in in 2019 when I
was doing math. But so hard to stick to.
I love sugar. I love.
Bread. You know what I mean, Not all
the pizza like it's, it's all the good.
It's pretty hard. I remember doing keto before
like and it'll take a few days to get into keto this, wouldn't
it? And then just one thing, one
lapse of concentration and you throw yourself out of it and
you're back to start again. Not.
Even thinking about it now, I've like, if you're fasting, like
you could wreck a fast by walking past the biscuit bar and
go custard cream fast, fast. God, yeah, it's ridiculous.
And it's happened. It's happened many times.
So, so you're doing the maths. Maths, not maths.
How good has it been for you then?
Because like you, you gave a little bit of background about
what you've done, but you've been podiuming, you're not being
just a runner, you've been podiuming and stuff like that.
This is what it's helped you to do.
So last year wasn't a very good season in regards to injury.
I think there was a, a multitude of little events that added to
the facts that it didn't go well for me last year.
Now, outside of running this, this is where the injuries come
from. So I've got a rare brain
condition, right? And it's called trigeminal
neuralgia. And we won't speak too much on
it because I spoke about it on the last podcast.
They can watch the next week. Click click here here they can
watch that. But what that does is it affects
my life in such a way that sometimes training is hard and
other injuries and of then life has happened that have come in
that it didn't. It wasn't really a good year for
me last year. But Despite that, my DNF in
Dragon's back, my 11 races before that, I pulled him every
single race. So what math has done is it's
enabled me to continue continually train like at such a
level where if I turn up to a race, there's a good chance and
podium and that's going to sound so far.
Yeah. But no, you're confident in what
you what you're you. It's giving you that confidence
within yourself. So I'm going to die.
It's it's giving you that base, as you said, to perform when it
matters and the confidence as well.
So I get it. Yeah.
So it's sort of like it's the the building blocks of of my my
whole fitness and my whole coaching philosophy that like
it's not you should only run easy, right?
Running at math will allow you to recover.
And then when you're doing your hard sessions, you're going to
see a couple of seconds increase on your Yasso 8 hundreds or
getting that a little bit further on your hill sprints or
holding that marathon pace a lot easier than what you would if
you weren't doing your easy runs easy.
Yeah, I bet that that's one thing I've always said and it's
not necessarily the easy runs. I've always said zone 2 running
is overrated and it's it's a similar heart rate zone.
Same sort of bracket like and it's it's preached around, isn't
it? Zone 2, zone 2 this zone 2,
that's on to this. But the bottom line is people
are fucking running easy runs too hard.
Like yeah, yeah. And I said, as I said there,
every run has to have a purpose, right?
So if you go you you're weak and you go and I, I want to hit 80 K
this week, right? What do these runs have to do?
You have to have recovery, right?
You have to have aerobic. And if you've built your pace,
you have to have some sort of speed and then the long run.
So every run has a purpose, but your easy run has to be easy.
So whether it's zone 2, whether it's math, whether it's fucking
crawling or walking backwards, I don't care.
It has to be easy like. That's the hardest thing about
it doing is actually bringing your pace down slow enough to
get your heart into the the recovery zone.
Yeah. And it's you naturally want to
get into your pace and you can't.
You have to hold yourself back. You mentioned Dragons back, one
of the toughest races in the world, running from the top of
Wales, all down the spine, right down to the bottom of South
Wales. And you took that on.
Was it last year? Last year, yeah.
And you mentioned your DNF D, what happened?
Right. So we'll, we'll roll back a few
years. 1st 2021, I was entered to do Dragon's back part of a
team of six of us from the Royal Welsh.
It was when I was still serving as a soldier and I got diagnosed
that year. So I put in a good couple of
months training. But then I got diagnosed with my
rare brain condition and I started having these electric
shocks on my face. So I pulled out and that seed
was planted. Then it was like, oh maybe one
day we'll we'll get back there. So last year I signed up and
training went decently in regards to fitness wise.
I'd podium the 100K. I'd used a training run in Volga
and come forth. So I was in decent shape, but I
was carrying something that I didn't know in, in regards to an
injury. So my hip had, I've had ACL
reconstruction on my knee right in 2018.
And the problem with, with us runners is once we've fixed some
fixed something, that's it done and that's it.
We, we leave it then. So I fixed the ACL and I was
rigid with it. And once I'd done it, that was
it. I just left it, but that's
obviously fested. So what's happened and what I
didn't realise until afterwards is I had a hip imbalancement.
So my leg, the hip was tightened so my leg was shorter.
So for about 18 months, I was training at this high volume, 20
hours a week, running at pain scale 3 or 4, thinking, Oh my
God, my hip is killing me without knowing that my hip was
in balance. And I went to many
professionals. I had acupuncture.
Absolutely crap. For me, it didn't work.
Cortisol made it 10 times worse. Yeah, really, really bad.
I know they can. It can weaken.
Yeah, it was terrible, honestly, from like I was worse after the
cortisol than what it was before.
Supposed to get rid of the pain. Yeah, but then I tried shockwave
therapy, ultrasound, shockwave therapy.
So they basically stick some gel on you and it's shockwave
therapy and it's like electrical pulses.
And that was like witchcraft. So I was running, then I was
back running with like pain scale 2-3 maybe sometimes.
So we get to the day, the race day, and the weather is fucking
biblical. Welcome.
To Wales baby. Day one I have never seen
anything like it in my life. I had the Gotex jacket on from
the start with a hood up. Guests of 50 / 5060 Man Hour
winds and Shane, the race director at the start said that
he's going to make a decision on the ground whether or not to go
over crib Go. Now people that know me and
people have followed me on social media and know my
previous race results and I had the inboxes as well, right?
But oh, he's going to go out too hard, right?
And this, I saw them, I saw those comments.
Yeah, yeah. So he's going to go how too?
I I sent them to you tonight. Or he went out too hard.
My heart rate was 108 average, right?
I kept it tapered day one. It was 50K.
My watch died and I felt really, really comfortable.
The pain scale was like 3 or 4, but I was taking some
painkillers every hour or so just to.
Yeah, just just proofing every hour or so just to keep the pain
at Bay, right. And we finished the day, we
didn't go up over crypto crew in a pig track.
Instead I finished the day in like 10 hours 30 and like low
20th place. That's still good, right?
Yeah. And that's me holding back.
So in my mind I'm thinking fuck imagine he wasn't injured I'd be
pushing the front. They'd be like that.
That could make this could make or as I've already stated, I
want to make running my full time.
This could have been it like if it wasn't if it didn't have this
hip issue. So we got back the end of day
one. Any problem with Dragons back is
vegan right? So after the worst 50K I've ever
done in my life terrain wise, it was like 4000 meters for you.
I think it's like 17 thousand 18,000 feet right?
It was horrendous. I got back to be greeted with
chickpea Curry. Yeah, you just want a burger,
man. I wanted a burger, bro, some
chicken legs, you know what I mean?
I was ribs when I stopped as it, as it normally is with the
races. My legs were, my hip was really,
really sore. So I took like a little trigger
point ball with me and I, I worked on the hip and I woke up
day to thought, right, OK, we'll just take it easy again today,
you know, excuse me, I'll set off at 6:00 just to give myself
if my hip actually goes, excuse me, I can get to the finish.
And I set off when I was like the faster runners usually leave
a little bit later. Like, you know, Holly, I run
with Holly, the 2nd place female Geordie most of day one.
And then she was leaving a little bit later on day 2 and I
was out on my own for about four or five hours, like in front of
of the 6:00 AM pack. And I was feeling good.
Like the pain scale again was two or three.
Like for me, that's, that'd been my training.
And then all of a sudden I, I was going up over a rocky
section and I put my leg in between two rocks.
And I thought, oh, I've scratched my leg there with,
with the rocks and I pulled my foot out and there's no scar.
I was like, what the fuck? And then I tried lifting my foot
and I could not lift my toe and I had 11 K to the next
checkpoint. I phoned the missus.
Like I said, I don't know what I've done said, but my leg is
fucked. SO11K took me three 3 1/2 hours
to do 11 kilometres. Yeah, like a limp.
Got to checkpoint with a good maybe 4 hours spare.
And the staff were like, Oh yeah, come on, you can, you can
walk the next. Yeah.
And there's no doubt I could walk.
It was 14 miles left. I said there's no doubt I could
walk the 14 miles, but then what state am I going to be in at the
end of it? Like I can't even lift my foot
now. Like there's there's something
wrong here. So I just pulled the pin, drove
them misses. She really dropped me off the
day before North Wales. She had to drive up to, to get
me again and, and drop me back when I went to the hospital.
And initially they couldn't see anything because of the swelling
and the X-ray because obviously it was so soon after.
But then it was they found out that it was a from the MRI that
there was a tibial stress fracture.
So my shin was gone do. You think that's through the
race or through your training? I think it's through that hip
imbalancement. So the 20 hours of week training
a week has culminated. I've come to the race and it's
just gone. Not we've had enough because
it's been compensating. And that was it.
And some breaking news for you. I was going to go back this
year. My regiment agreed to gift to
soldiers ex soldiers a place and Friday morning confirmation
combust. No what was it like a charity
thing or was the actual? No, no the actual.
No, the actual race. Dragons back.
I I swear, Yeah. Is it actually?
I saw, I swear I saw something about them being in trouble.
Before they put out a statement saying, oh, we may be going into
liquidation. Yeah, Friday on an e-mail.
They're gone. I said that, yeah, it's a big
shame. That's a big shame.
I mean, like how how do you feel that?
Because obviously this was your chance for redemption against
that race or you don't bothered, you just.
I'm not one of those that gets caught up like it's my first
ever DNF, right? Don't get me wrong in in over 20
years of racing it's my first ever DNF.
I've never pulled out before, but I'm not one of those that
gets caught up on on having to go back and put it to bed.
The question then becomes, what do I replace it with?
That is the question. So I've got a few ideas in my
head, but whether they make sense.
Would you ever entertain the idea of a personal challenge?
Yeah, this is. So this is what I'm thinking.
So I'm, I don't know why, but Bob Graham has always been like
on one of my. So Bob Graham is a route up in
It's the pen pen. Yeah.
So it's 64 miles and the the goal is 24 hours.
And I think there's only like, correct me if I'm wrong,
Internet. I think there's only like 300
people that have ever done in Sep 24.
I don't know the exact number. I want to go into a double Bob.
That's a big one. A double Bob.
Double Bob without stopping. Double Bob, Yeah.
Round and then run back the other way.
I don't know yet. Or just round the same time.
Same time. You don't.
Know I don't know. So it's one of the things just
like what do I what do I do? How do I fill the gap because
I'm starting back training and for me, I've always had to
validate myself at least like once a year, you know like I'm
still capable of doing tough shit.
Like last year I had the FKT on my 40th birthday, but this year
I've tried with without Dragons back and I was gone.
So whether I do the Bob Graham because that's logistically for
me easy in regards to time off work or could I squeeze jorgling
from John O Grotz to Land's End or Land's End to John O Grotz?
How long would you look at doing it?
Well, I know the records like 10 days or some somewhere
thereabouts. I wouldn't be in record shape by
September, but rather than going for a record completing in
September where that could be something I could work around
with regards to work. There's no way of being record
ship because because of the letter lay up that I've had from
training and the injury, I'm only just coming back now.
So it's like way too. If I had like a year, 18 months
of training, this was back end of 2324, I would have gone for
it. This could be like, it's like a
stepping stone onto next year's big one of what you're going to
do like. So yeah, there's plenty to what
gets you fired up. What's what's the one that like
goes like you're like, yeah, I like that one.
I like the sound of that. I've do you know what, as I, as
I stated earlier before, I think it's for me it's about longevity
and like self-awareness of being able to know that I can go out
and still like it's weird, right?
But when I'm training, distances become my norm and that's what
I'm working towards like right now.
So well as before I could last year, I could get up in the
morning going to 25 K and that'd be a baseline for me.
I wouldn't. I wouldn't have to worry about
yeah, but but in in my mind I'm like, I'm not at the point yet
where 25 K is feeling just like I could go off 25K, come back
and go and do the next day. At the moment that for me is 8
miles, right. So I'm I'm quite a which is 12
Ki. Was going to say you're
switching in between distances now like.
I'm trying to my my mind here SO202016 miles.
So I'm half it at the moment right.
So I rather than races are firing me up, it's more the, the
ability to keep doing this and having like just to myself, like
when I'm going out knowing that I could go and run a marathon on
the weekend without any training like that, overall fitness or
preparedness then. But in regards to races, I would
like to go. I've been to South Africa, I've
run from Spain to France. I would like to go and do
something like Western States or Hard Rock somewhere over there.
I've never raced in the states so probably those are if if if
there were any races there was. It was UT MB for for the longest
of time, but the path there is just ridiculous.
And all cost money. It all costs a lot of money, all
these races and stuff. Leigh, you've spoken about this
matter quite a lot. I've seen on your socials.
What's your beef with Strava? We'll talk about the platform
1st and then what's your beef with the Strava user?
We'll come out because the Strava Police series you did was
awesome. What's your beef with Strava the
platform? Again, I think going back to our
initial conversation right where what somebody else is doing
shouldn't really have a negative impact on on anybody like myself
included. But the shit I see posted on
there, it's just like sometimes I'm like, should I reply?
No, just leave it. Strava can be a great tool for
it's like Facebook and there you've got you can add photos
now you can add videos, you can you can add comments, but the
garbage gets posted on there because of the lack of knowledge
and the cheating. The cheating on Strava is rife.
Like so blatant that they'd even name a a activity that was a
bike ride, but they've saved it as a run just to get all the
Koms. They'll name it as nice morning
bike ride. No, fucking change it to run.
You've taken everybody's. Koms yeah, it's dreadful because
if if it's taken your king of the hill, king of the what was
it? King of the mile, king of the
thing, king of the mountain. It's going to rile you up.
Yeah. Because you did not didn't have
a back and forward with someone. You, you right.
Explain to the guy you had a series called the Strava Police.
I loved it. It was my favorite series.
You need to bring it back. Where you would call out people
that would been cheating. Yeah.
And you'd go in, you'd have a little deer stalk, a hat on and
like magnifying glass. It's my favorite pastime, right?
So back when, let's say I do a route and then because my stakes
are small or whatever, run, there's always going to be
segments on on a run, right? So I was after a run, I'd sit on
Strava and I go out. What did I do on our segment?
Click on it. Whose top?
Let's say it's a kilometer, right?
A kilometer segment. I click on it and I go one
minute 40. Fuck right off.
Click on it, scroll right down. Check his cadence.
Nilpwa cunt on the bike, right? Excuse my French, he's on the
bike, right? So I I then know that he hasn't
done that segment. He's peddled it.
I've caught many of my mates as well that I've gone for a run
and then not turned the watch off, gone in the car, gone up a
hill taking the KOM. I'm like, you need the changes.
Like you can snip it now you can go on Strava and snip it.
Not that Koms matter, but I think that the reason I brought
out Strava police. So what I used to do is I used
to film myself going through these segments and then going
online and reporting them again. I'm flagged so they get taken
down and it wasn't necessarily myself either for the for the
next person in line. I I wouldn't care.
Like I was doing it because rage bathing really right.
And it's funny because like, let's say there's there's a lad
in my steak, there's a beast and then somebody's taking this Co
and I'll be like I'll interrogate him.
And we, there was this one time where I was on, I was on
Instagram and I didn't know the guy who was following me, right?
I've got like 10,000 followers, but I didn't know he's following
me. And I pinged this Strava police
and it was about him. And I think it's, it's on my,
it's on my Instagram at the moment.
And I'm not sure if the comments are being deleted, but he was,
he was on the bike and he'd saved it as a run.
And we had this back and forth and I was like, it's not hard to
do, just go on to Strava. And yeah, he hadn't taken any of
my Koms. I hadn't even run part of it.
It's just my part of the Strava police and we must have had this
back and forth for, I don't know, a good couple of days.
And I was like, it's not fucking hard.
Just go on to the run and change it from run to ride because
you've taken all the Koms off everybody and I said you haven't
even run. Oh yeah.
And we had we had some back and forth on it, but it's rage B
it's fun. I.
Like it. I think it's you're, you're
doing a service. Yeah, for all the runners out
there who's slogging their nuts off, getting good times and then
being taken away by these people, see whether they've done
it intentionally or not. And most of it's not there.
Yeah, most of most of it is an Internet channel, Yeah, but
you've got the fucking option at the end, right?
If you go out now and you do a run and you've parked your car
somewhere and you forgot to turn, turn your watch off,
right? And you think, oh fuck, you
realize when you a couple of kilometers in the car I've I've
left my watch on, you can go on to Strava and snip the fucking
run. Yeah, don't be like, don't be
the guy that leaves you running and take every KOM like.
You're doing yourself a disservice as well because then
how can you compare if you've improved if you're ever going to
run up that hill because you can't beat bloody an engine
driving up there. I thought you were doing a great
service. I want.
If there's anything you will bring back now, please bring
back the straw. But I'm going to have to, I
think, yeah, because the reception from it as well is I
did stop after that guy, mind. Like when we add that back and
forth? Or maybe this is a bit close to
the bonely? Because you can do upset people
sort of thing. Hey, let's see what happens.
Yeah, it's a bit close to born, I thought.
You know what? Like this is really a fact for
me. It was just like, it wasn't even
my KOMU stealing, you know? I was doing it for rage bait.
Why don't you do it so you you blank out their name so the
video is still about their segments, still about their
time, but you blanket like it's all.
Yeah, what I did on the second one.
Yeah, well, yeah. And then I will message these
person personally and I will inform them and stuff like that.
The the one we're talking about the the very first one I I outed
him like his driver handler works his picture.
You are a fucking cheat. So yeah, maybe for the I can
understand, yeah. When I was like, Joe, I've taken
some shit for that. Maybe I'll blank out the name.
Yeah, maybe. Maybe that's a good idea.
We'll see.
Lee, how can people follow you, man?
I'm not as active as I should be on YouTube, but that's something
I'd like to push Is my YouTube Swissly runs ultras and then on
Instagram it's Lee runs ultras. But as we spoke about, I am
trying to push. My coaching website is being
built at the moment and it's called Mission Ultra.
So it'll be Mission ultra.co.uk I.
Like that name Mission Ultra. But I think that's good.
Like you've demonstrated, like you're obviously a student or a
practitioner of the math. You've shown that it works your
podium in races. You're taking on some of the
biggest races in the world. If people want to run an ultra
and stuff, you're the man to get old of.
You're the man to get old of. Lee.
Thank you very much my man. Cheers bro, cheers.
For coming down, congratulations, you made it to
the end of the episode. If you found value in it, please
leave us a review or drop us a comment below.
And to make sure you don't miss another one, make sure you
follow and subscribe. Thanks for watching.
The.