The What do you think is the biggest load of bollocks in
fitness right now? No, right, OK, this is going to
be the biggest load of bollocks in fitness right now.
Social media content. Nice.
What a load of bollocks. What a load of bollocks.
Yeah, what is it about it? Oh, it's just, it's so black and
white or it's so repetitive or so contradictory.
Like how the fuck do you know what to follow?
Oh, do zone 2O, don't do zone 2, do super double threshold
sessions. Do this Norwegian style of
training. Don't do that Norwegian style,
do Japanese styles. What the fuck do I do?
Just keep it simple. Just yeah, like get your basics
and then fucking like worry about it when you get to the
high levels. I think.
I think fitness is too complicated these days.
Yeah, and there's a load of bollocks online, as you say,
people are saying do this and then so there's literally the
next swipe up is a contrary, contrary piece, contrary piece
about not doing that thing. It's mental.
There's a lot of noise. I think people just need to like
do more. Like I'm really, I've since
getting into running, I've got so caught up in stats and Strava
and all of that shit and posting on social and it's my business,
right? Adventure athletes.
I've got to promote myself. I've got to show you that I'm
doing well and like my challenges and stuff.
I've got to promote what I'm doing and the people I'm doing,
working with. And I've got to show stats and
I've got to do all of this being a coach.
But then at the same time, I just want like recently I'm
trying to step away from that and I'm going to start doing no
watch runs and stuff. And that's going to freak some
people out. But you know, just fuck off all
your technology. Get back to the reason why you
started getting into fitness in the 1st place.
And yeah, don't overcomplicate. It we call it naked runs, don't
they? When you go without your watch.
Yeah, but then I also hate the fact that that's become like
this trend. It's like, look at me like going
for a run without my watch. Look, fuck off.
Just just do it. Don't shout about it.
You're just going for a run at the end of the day, like, who
cares? I see that, I see that is when
people post their times on social media and it's like, I
don't, I don't think they realise that no one gives 2
shits about the, the fact they've shaved the second off
their 5K. And that's not in a horrible
way. That obviously means so much to
them. They've done really well and
they they obviously want to post it, but no one cares.
Like just do it for you. It's almost like they're doing
it for other people. Maybe the the the reasons why
they're doing it is wrong. Yeah.
And this is what I found is I was obviously like I'm posting
because like I said, it's my business.
And I'm like, yeah, look, I went from running my first ever 50K
in 10 hours to then doing it in five hours.
And that's, that's a great achievement.
I was proud of that. But then when I started having
to post about and I feel like I have to post about it and it
becomes a chore. And then I'm like, well, I have
to now keep improving because that's the expectation of me.
That's not why I got into running and that's not why I got
into ultras in the 1st place. Like I've really sat down and
thought with myself recently, like, why did I get into
running, especially ultras? And I was like the Barclay, I
saw the documentary on the Barclay and that night I signed
up for my first ultra and I was like, cool, I'll do that.
I didn't then train. I just forgot that I did it.
And then it got onto race day and I was like, shit, I've got
to run an ultra. You forgot you signed up for one
of the biggest ultras in there in the country.
Rock up, did it, broke myself. Took 10 hours.
Literally one minute of the cut off time for being able to
finish, but I finished it. But now that it's like I'm in
the running community and it's all about stats and oh like what
there was when I was talking about doing the slam in a week
and there's people at not just before the event, but at the
event being like, oh, Will's going to win this.
And I'm like, I've just run 4 ultras.
How the fuck am I going to win my first ever 50 Milo?
Like no. Is this on your fifth run of the
fifth days? They think, oh, they'll win this
after running four night. OK.
This is what I mean. And like, because I've been
posting and doing these challenges, people have that
expectation of me and you, you get sucked into that.
And it's that there's that pressure to then do well and
post and track your stats. And obviously coaching like I
love stats. Like it's really important to
have stats and to track your progress.
But every now and then just realize why you do it in the
first place because it gets really like demoralizing and it
just sucks the fun out of it. Yeah, I think, I think when
you're put in your validation on other people, it's a dodgy area,
isn't it? Because if you don't get the
likes, does that mean that run wasn't worth it, that you didn't
enjoy it? It needs, you need to take it
back to yourself. And as long as you're happy with
what you're doing it, it doesn't matter what other people think.
Max, you know, Max Glover, he he had a good point.
So when he did his first challenge, people said that he
wouldn't do it and he had to beat them, he had to prove them
wrong. But then when he did his second
challenge, everyone was like, oh, you're going to do it.
And it was a weird position for him to be in because it was
like, well, now they they expect me to do it, I bloody have to.
It was a different kind of pressure.
It's funny, you must have felt that when people are saying
you're going to win your 5th ultra in a, in a row in a day,
I'll move on. What's one thing in fitness that
everyone thinks is essential that you think is rubbish and
you've bend off and don't do? I mean, I'm the worst person to
ask this recovery. Yeah, yes, I knew that's going
to get some some clicks. Yeah, this this actually links
nicely to the the point before like I could have gone this way
with your last question. I think people put too much
emphasis on overtraining and they they're like, oh, I need to
get my recovery. Oh, I'm a bit tired today.
I'll get my recovery. And I'm like, do you, are you
just a bit tried because you're training hard?
Like that's that's a byproduct of training.
Yeah, recovery. Oh yeah, recovery is obviously
important, but you only need so much of it if you're eating all
right and you're sleeping well. Do you really need like a full D
load week? Do you need to take a week off
completely? Do you need to tone it back
every now and then? Sure, but you have to be
following that structured plan. There should be times where you
are naturally going to break and rebuild, but the people spend
too much time thinking about recovery.
And then that sort of leads me into technology as well.
Like I can, I always think about shoes.
People laugh at me. These are the shoes I wore doing
my 6 ultras in six days. I still wear them now when I'm
running and they're like, oh, those shoes have done a lot of
miles. You need to retire them.
And I'm like, I probably should because the grips come off the
the the back of one of these, like, I'll see if I can show you
the camera. So you can see like there's
obviously rubber there. There's none there.
That's just foam that's been like that since the six.
I still run on that. That is like worn away so much
that my foot's on a backward slope now, right.
And people are like, oh, you've got to have these certain shoes.
And, and then I'm turning up and running the knees and they're
like, what shoes are they wearing?
I don't know. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I've always said that actually.
People put too much emphasis on emphasis on the kit.
This is what you get Darren from Park Run turning up like with
all the gear. No idea buying the Pegasus
carbon plated bounce runners to just to shave half a second off
his bloody 40 minute 5K time or something.
There's far too much emphasis. I when if you ever see me run,
I'm look, I look like I'm running in lost property.
Honestly, I've just it's just Mitch smashed clothes and stuff
like this. And you, you don't.
All you need is a pair of trainers and so remember where
you live. That's it to go out and stuff
like that. Do you see your clients like
worrying about stuff like that? Oh yeah, And they ask me and
they're like, Oh well, I'm going to go and get new shoes.
Like what shoes should I get? I'm like, I don't know what
feels comfortable. What do you like wearing?
Are you going on trail? Probably get some trail shoes.
That's it. I do recommend like, get your
gait analysis done and then see like if there's certain types
that suit you better. Like I go to Soulmate, they do
my gait analysis and then I'm they're like, yeah, we recommend
these. I'm like, cool, Whereas other
people are like, oh, but they don't have this gore Tex give a
shit. I guess.
It's a fucking pair of shoes. The you see me going, going to
work, going for a run, training in the gym or the very few
occasions where I do something that's not one of those things,
I'm dressed exactly the same. Like this is how I dress 24/7
like and it's just you go out and just do whatever you want to
do. The improvements are made in
your training. It's nothing.
It's not the trainers. Yeah, I, I understand that at
the highest level and it's the same with like recovery, it's
the same with like tracking your stats and stuff at the absolute
like nought .5% of athletes where they're, it's their job,
it's their life. Then you can focus on all the
little details and be like, where am I getting these gains
from? Most people just need to fucking
get outside more. Go for a run, go to the gym.
Like you're not training enough to be overtraining.
Yeah, you're not like running fast enough to warrant having
five different pairs of shoes for different things.
Like have a road pair, have a trail pair, Sure.
Because like, I've run on trails in these and I do it all the
time and I slip to fuckery. Other than that, it really
doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, my my point of
opinion there. I like it, I like it it.
This sort of ties in again, I suppose.
But what's 1 truth about endurance training that everyone
repeats but you found is completely wrong in the real
world, right? I know everyone here hates
adverts, but this one actually keeps the light on here at
Rockman, so bear with me. Rockman runs monthly online
running and fitness challenges, but people short on time that
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You get the buzz of race day without waiting for a far off
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And if you're not quite ready for a challenge yet, we've got
free, no nonsense running and strength plans that you can grab
via the link down below. Now let's get back to the
episode. There's two things that spring
to mind. One of them's, again, it's just
a bit of a fad at the moment. Zone 2 training, Oh, you just
get faster by just running slow all the time.
You have to have your speed work as well.
Like if time's important to you again, like again, some people
are then focusing too much on speed work and they're worrying
about what type of speed work to do.
And it's like, again, just do some fast bits, do some slow
bits. 80% of your training should be slow, like just going
out for a run. But then you include like if I'm
doing intervals, I've got like 3 to 5 minutes recovery that I'm
doing more slow running in. So how am I building up that 20%
of my fast stuff? Like you need to be doing more
fast stuff than you think. That's like #1 like everyone's
going to down the route of, oh, just run slow to run fast.
Like no, run fast to run fast and then run slow to build your
base. Like, yeah, that's that's one
thing. The other thing is still about
strength training. Like people saying that it's
just how they approach strength training.
So they're either anti strength training being like, you don't
need it to be a good runner. No, you don't need it, but it's
going to help, especially if you're not naturally a good
runner. Like I know some fucking amazing
runners that don't strength train.
Would they be a bit more resilient if they did strength
train? Probably.
Do they need it? Probably not because they're
quite naturally good at it. Are you those people?
Probably not. Strength training is going to
help. And then it's like if they are
into strength training, they just do it wrong.
And it's just they they're doing like too many reps and they're
not going heavy enough. Like if you want to be more
robust, you have to make yourself more robust.
You don't do that by doing three sets of 20 squats with like a
light kettlebell. Like that's fuck all, really.
I suppose you're not getting stronger.
No, you're not. You'll build a bit because if
you haven't done it, doing anything is going to help.
But are you maximizing what you could do?
Like I think minimum effective dose, I want to be in the gym
for as little as I can and get the most results out of it.
So I'm like, right, heavy squats, heavy dead lifts, things
like that, Plyometrics, great things that are going to have
like the most transfer and you can spend minimal time doing it.
And then I spend more time in the gym because I enjoy being in
the gym. So then I'm doing like Olympic
lifts because they're fun. I then do upper body stuff
because I want to be good all round.
I want to be able to go and do rock climbing if I want to.
I want to go and compete in a high rocks without any specific
training. Like I want to turn up and do
stuff. So I spend more time in the gym
just because it's fun. You don't need to spend that
long in the gym and it doesn't have to be like fucking million
different circuits. And yeah, just do the basics
well. I like it.
No, I've always seen. Have you ever seen people go
from strongman or powerlifting and then into running and they
adapt so well, but I'm yet to see anyone go from running into
strongman and do well at that. Yeah, I've.
Been, yeah, a lot recently. And a lot of it is because
they've just got that robustness to them so they can handle the
forces of running. Like if you've got a really good
squat, your tendons and ligaments and muscles can cope
with really small repetitive motions because it's like, oh,
this is like fuck all force compared to what we're used to.
But then yeah, take a runner into a gym and they have no idea
what what they're doing. They'll crumble.
Let's talk about where were we before the ultras and the tire
flipping? Who were you as an athlete
before you got into these mega challenges?
Because you weren't necessarily a runner at all.
And now you you've gone straight in and you're poding it, poding
him races. What were you before that?
Yeah, What were? Yeah.
What were you before that? I mean, when I was growing up I
hated sport. Like I literally hated sport.
I hate. I would be that kid that would
write notes in his little diary to give to the teachers to be
like, oh wells injured today. He can't do PE like was.
It signed Dad. Just really shitly forged notes
and I was just like, can't do PE today.
I hated it. I'd often forget my cat.
I was always like kind of active.
Like I'm from quite an active family, so I'd cycle to school.
That was more because I think my parents made me.
They were like, we don't want to keep driving.
You like fucking make your own way out of school.
I'm. Fed it for.
Taking you all right, it's only 6 miles away.
Sure. So I cycled to school and back
and then you'd end up just like cycling with your mates and
pissing about. So I did that.
Other than that, like I really wouldn't do exercise.
I hated it. I would go to the library.
I was really into gaming. I liked my gaming.
People that know me now are like, you can sit still and
concentrate for long enough to play a game.
I'm like, no, I can't now. But I used to.
And then I started doing some martial arts because I was
really into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
So that got me into martial arts.
I was doing all right at that. And then I gave up doing it
because I didn't really have that many friends doing it.
Like I was the youngest in the class.
There was me and like one other guy.
We were the only teenagers sort of doing it.
Everyone else was adults. When it got to the point where I
was the same as my instructor and then I was like, you're not
really teach me anything. Then I'd help him teach the
classes and then I was like, I don't like this.
Then I got into free running. That's where it all sort of
clicked for me. I was having this conversation
with someone yesterday actually about how hardcore and free
running is the best sport that you can do to build an athletic
base for anyone. Like if you want to get
especially your kids, if you want to get your kids athletic
as they're older, I can get them into parkour and free running.
Most parkour isn't it, It's where you jump in over bollards
and walls and yeah. Jumping across buildings,
climbing stuff, it's got a bit of everything.
Jump in the the, the thing that separates it from gymnastics
because everyone's like, we'll just do gymnastics like it's
much more structured and I'm like it is much more structured.
But that's what takes away from the athletic ability in a way,
because then you're so used to things being at the same all the
time. Whereas with free running it's
more adaptable and then you're also there's more of that social
aspect because you're always out with your friends doing it
usually. And then there's the reactivity,
there's all the stuff that's off angle.
Gymnastics is all very linear. Whereas free running, it's like,
well, I'm going to jump there and you're like all over the
place and you've got that reactiveness to it as well.
And then there's that auto regulation because you're self
coached. Gymnastics is always coach just
so structured like being a gymnastics coach myself, like
when I was coaching, I had like a four year plan for my athletes
and it was like, right, these are when we're trying to hit
these skills. Obviously things change because
life, but you generally know where they're going to be in the
next four years, where you're aiming for them to go.
You can tell their sessions ahead of time.
When you do free running, you don't do any of that.
It's like I'm going to go jump on some walls and then it's like
some days you'll be like, oh, I'm going to, I feel like I'm
close to making this jump so I'm going to keep at it for like
hours. Other days within 3 or 4
attempts, you're like today's not the day.
But you learn to auto regulate your training.
And that's something that I didn't fully appreciate that I
can do really well from having years of experience of that,
whereas most people, especially people that I coach can't.
So I've always told them like, oh, like on the day, see how you
feel when you're training and if you need to like change the
weights, you can. And they're like, this is what's
written down and they can't auto regulate.
And it's really hard. It was always really hard for me
to understand like, why can't you do that?
But it makes sense now. There's a freedom, there's an
autonomy that you can sort of you can choose your session on
that day for what you're interested in that day.
St. Gymnastics in it St.
Bruv. St.
Gymnastics. The thing because everyone
always says it's, it's the same as gymnastics.
It's the whole, it's got similar movements, but the whole ethos
is the polar opposite, like it's the counterculture of
gymnastics. Reminds me of it's like a
skating culture reminds me of the skating culture, just
without the skateboard. That's what it reminds me of.
But what at what point or what happens when at what point did
you get to where you like? I want to take this up a notch.
I want to challenge myself in different ways and which sort of
led you onto. I know you went into climbing
and then LED you on to the tyre flipping and the ultras and all
this. What What changed in you to get
to lead you onto those paths? I don't think anything really
changed per SE, but the deeper I got into free running, the
deeper I got into because the culture has changed a lot with
free running. Like I'm very old school when it
comes to it. Like I, I, I like the, the
discipline that it gives you. Like we was talking about the
auto regulation, but then it is like a discipline to it.
The roots are very much military and martial arts and things like
that. Whereas like these days, it's
it's their own thing and there's not so much of that.
And it's a lot more competitive and like they're a lot more
varied. Whereas I liked the old school
approach of like, this is how we train.
This is the discipline and the values behind it.
Like the ethos behind it was amazing to me.
And like the sort of founding fathers of parkour, the ones
that popularized it basically turned it into a sport.
They had this saying at tray for poor at tray UTI be strong to be
useful. And I like it so much.
I've got a tattooed on me. But that sort of message I
whenever I think about why do I train?
Like why do I like doing the things I do?
And it's all about that sort of well, I want to be able to rock
up and do anything at any point. And then that sort of led me
into like other styles of training because I was like, if
I can't do this, then what's the point in doing all of this other
stuff? Like if I can't turn up to a
strongman competition and compete, what's the point?
If I can't turn up to a high rocks and compete?
If I can't do an ultra marathon without training, like what is
the point? So that sort of led me into
being more varied in my training and just wanting to be ready for
anything at any time. And then that led me into like
the fire service because it's like you have to be ready for
your job at any time. You don't know when someone's
going to be trapped in a burning building and you've got a lift
fucking burning log off them. Or like, you don't know when
you're going to be hiking up a mountain at 2:00 AM because some
fucking little shit set the mountain on fire and you've got.
Territory. Yeah, like you just, you don't
know. So you just have to be ready for
your job. And a lot of people get
complacent because life is very safe these days.
Like being a firefighter. I hate saying it.
It's quite easy. Like these days, it really is.
It's really hard to get into because so many people apply for
so few jobs. But once you're in, you can get
lazy because it's not really life and death most of the time.
Health and safety, Imagine. Yeah, and like just things are
built to not burn like they used to.
Like most things that are like all your furniture now is going
to have some level of being fire retardant whereas everything
used to just be wood so everything would go up in
flames. Will is moaning that there's not
enough fires these days. There's not enough fire.
Bring back fires. Yeah, firefighters like it is
really easy. Like I was talking to people
that have been in the job for like 10 plus years and I was
like, have you ever been in a life and death situation?
No. And it's like that sums it up
and it's great. That is safe, but it is that
makes the job really easy. But then my view was always, but
what about that one time where it goes wrong and you're out of
shape and there's a lot, Again, I'm slagging people off here and
there's a lot of out of shape firefighters and they just do
enough to pass the fitness test each year, which isn't that
hard. So then it was like, well, like,
why are you only at that level? Why do you not see that there
could be one day and you might not be ready for that day?
That really bugged me. But that's, that's my attitude
towards it. And yeah, that's what led me
then into the challenges and stuff because I was like, I want
to push this side of it more like especially after I left the
fire service and I wasn't frontline and then I didn't have
that urgency to my training. Well, it was like, well, I need
something to because otherwise I'm like, well, I don't need to
be at that level. Like once I left, I was like, I
don't need to be there. So how, how do I then motivate
myself to train? Because it's so easy.
Like I'm going to skip today. Like no one's life's on the line
anymore. Whereas it's now like, well,
I've got this big challenge coming up.
So it's like, well, I want to be ready for that.
You have to be ready. You have to be ready.
Well, let's talk about your first.
This is probably one of your first big challenges or maybe
one of the most well known recently was the the world
record tire flip right? So the what was it you had to
you? You were aiming to flip a
massive 50 kilogram, 100 kilogram tractor tire for a
world record for the longest distance.
Was it a marathon that was your target?
I. Was very ambitious with this,
overly ambitious, but I knew I was going into it.
But again, this is this is where it really started with the whole
social media thing and me getting sucked into it because I
said that because I was like, this will get clicks.
The world record for flipping a tractor tire in 24 hours was 6.7
miles. I want to say at the time or
currently still is. And then I was like, well, I'm
going to beat that. And I want to keep going until I
hit a marathon. And I was like, yeah, that will
get clicks. Like everyone can relate to a
marathon. In my head I was already
justifying if I do a half marathon that's already more
than the world record and I like, I don't care if I do it in
the 24 hours. I will just keep going till I've
done 1/2 marathon. And that's still like, Oh yeah,
like you didn't do the big goal. But that's got me all these
followers and likes and sponsors and shit like that.
But I've still done this like pretty cool thing.
And then I managed to do 6 miles in 15 hours and then I tore my
bicep. So I was well on track for the
world record and I remember waking up the next day and my
body didn't feel fucked. It was literally just my bicep
tear. That was the only thing that
hurt and I was like, I really could have kept going if it
wasn't for the injury. So that was a fucking piss take
but. What was the what have you
learned through that failure that you wouldn't have learned
through success? Did you take anything from that?
Any lessons I. Don't think I did at the time.
I just, I could. I went into a bit of a dark
place again after that with my mental health because that was
the first time I've really said I was going to do something and
didn't do it. And that bothered me.
And it's still in the back of my mind, that tire flip.
But now I think, again, it's coming back to all the things
I'm thinking about recently where it's like, why did I want
to do that in the 1st place? Was it because I wanted to do
this big challenge and like I did want to do it?
I said I was going to do that challenge before I announced it,
before it was a big thing, before I'd even done my other
challenges, before that. That was on my list.
But making such a big deal out of it, that was because it was
like, well, I feel like I have to because this is my job and
I'm trying to fundraise and I won't clicks and I want
subscribers and all of that. And that took away from the joy
of the challenge and like why I did it.
I started learning now that I don't need to suffer for these
challenges to be worthwhile, whereas I was very much in the
thing of it doesn't matter if it hurts, fucking keep going and it
doesn't have to be fun. You don't, you shouldn't be
enjoying this. The fact that I was telling
myself that I shouldn't be enjoying it, like, yeah, that
says a lot. So.
Brill. But like, are you going to, you
have to revisit it surely maybe not in the in the immediate
future, but at some point you've got to go back and nail that.
No, I I've always said that I will, but again I'm questioning
why, why, why do I have to Like, I gave it a fucking good shot.
I yeah, I did work my ass off for it.
I know what I could improve if I ever tried again.
But I'm like, there's other things I want to do.
Like why do I want to obsess over something just because I
haven't done it? Like it's OK to try and not do a
thing. Like you know who?
Who cares at the end of the day? Does it make a difference to to
anyone's life other than mine? No, no one else gives a fuck.
You've. Moved on.
Yeah, you've moved. On I'm a runner Now.
Yeah, you're a runner now, but let's talk about that.
So literally like a year or two ago, you weren't a runner.
I'm now class. Myself as a runner, then I had.
Run. Yeah, but but you've, you've now
entered the endurance running scene, often taking podium
places in some of these races, which then LED you on to
tackling the six in six challenge where you were going
to tackle 6 ultra marathons in six days like 1 after another.
And these were, these were already organized events that go
on in the in Wales, isn't it? So that you had your roots set
out, you achieved that, you did that.
But what happens to your body after sort of day three, but
nobody warns you about? Did you notice anything?
Did anything surprise you going through this hardship that no
one had warned you was going to happen?
Yeah. Incontinence.
No, genuinely, most things went really, really well.
I remember running on day three thinking I was injured and you
can see like my gates off a little bit, but there's a video
of me finishing day three. So I've done 40 miles day 130
miles day 2. Also doing the next 40 miler,
which is around this way. Actually, that's the the one pan
after yeah Porf. Is it porf cool to pan off or I?
Think so. Yeah, I think so.
Whichever way round it is, I always get confused.
Too many. PS So yeah, it was on that one.
And there's a video of me finishing it and it's like an
ever so slight uphill. But once you've run that far,
like, you know, it's an uphill. And I was, I was running like
running, running like faster than a lot of people can run.
Not like trying to brag or anything, but like you can see
like there's a decent stride there because it's the last like
200 meters. It's like, yeah, I'm going.
And I knew that there was someone there video in and it
was being sent to ITV Wales. So I was like, yeah, I got.
But like I was like in my head I was like, oh, I'm injured, but I
wasn't really injured. I got really injured on day
five. And then I was like, OK, this is
the difference between being injured and being injured.
But like most things went really well.
Like I was sleeping good. I was, yeah, eating enough.
Nothing really came out of the blue when I got injured.
The days got slower. So I went from doing like, I
don't know, like a 7-8 hour 50K to like a 1516 hour 50K.
Yeah, because I was, I was walking a lot because I was
fucked. I would still try and run and I
was still hitting some like decent paces, but they would be
very short bursts and then I'd lie down afterwards.
So like, most of that went really well.
I was having quite a bad mental health spot going into the
challenge anyway, and my sleep was all over the place, so I was
going into it probably like quite sleep deprived on the last
day. I kept having to have trail
naps, so I would just lie on the floor and there's so many
pictures of me just lying, looking like a dead body.
But then all the people that are running with me, like Crouch
down around me, like if I'm a campfire or something, countless
pictures of that. But then after the challenge
finished, then my brain would just switch off as if I'm still
doing the challenge. So I remember the night I got
back and someone had run me a bath.
So I was there ready and I get home, I get in the bath and I'm
lying back and I put my head on the back of the bath and I
closed my eyes for a minute and I get up in a panic thinking
that I've got up from a trail nap.
And I jump out in the bath as if I'm going to go running and I'm
drying myself off. Like fuck, I'm running.
And then I'm like, why would I dry myself off before a run?
I was like, I'm home, like relax.
And then the next day I went to work and I did a spin class And
after my spin class, I went to the shops and I was getting a
lift back because I couldn't drive because I I was injured.
Like I was on crutches. And as I'm walking from ALDI
back to work, which is literally like 100 meters, like it's
really not far. At some point my brain switched
into running mode. And the next thing I know, I'm
running down the cycle path, turning around, asking my crew
who aren't there for my poles. And I'm in like fucking slippers
because I can't put normal shoes on because my feet are so
swollen. And I'm like, where's my poles?
And then I'm like, oh, they don't know where I am.
Oh, I haven't started my watch. So I start my watch because that
was my live tracker and I was like, oh, they've just lost me
because they haven't got my live track.
So I turn that on and I keep running and I bump into someone
and I basically had like a mental breakdown because they
were like, what are you doing? Well, like, are you OK?
And I was like, I'm running now, like, are you OK?
And I was just like, I don't know where I am.
Like I didn't recognize anything and I had to go get picked up
and I didn't recognize the person picking me up or
anything. Like it was, yeah, a bit of a.
Sounds like you absolutely battered, like exhausted PTSD
maybe like from it all you've you've just driven yourself into
the ground when you weren't in a good place anyway.
And yeah, you're going to have some funny symptoms like that.
Also it now. Yeah.
You know where you are. You know you don't have to run
off now. No, I'm not just going to get up
and start running. Oh, thank God for that.
You, you train across a lot of disciplines.
Strength plyometrics is a big one.
I see that I that you do that other people don't.
Endurance running. What's the hidden link most
people miss between all these types of training?
What's, what's the one thing that people aren't doing which
they could really bloody benefit from?
I just, it's, it's all just training.
Like it's just fun at the end of the day.
It's really just the Russians got like a program GPP, general
physical preparedness. So it's basically what I like
doing is you just do show all of these athletic qualities and
then you specialize later or like I try and specialize when
I'm doing a challenge. So if I'm doing a running
challenge, everything comes back a bit and my running goes up a
bit. I still try and maintain it all.
If I then want to do a high rocks, I know within, like if I
wanted to do well in a high rocks, maybe 4 weeks of
training, I would see like a significant improvement because
I've got the base there because I just do everything year round.
And then I just specialize a bit more and be like, OK, I'll do a
few more intervals, like 1K intervals, do some more speed
work, and I'll do the specific stations, figure out what my
weaknesses are and just double down on them.
Four weeks. And then that puts me in a
really good spot. Yeah, no one does that like you.
Stay ready. You never have to get ready,
right? Yeah, and it's the Russians just
do it like, and it's probably bad comparing it to the Russians
and the Chinese because what they'll do is they'll train all
of the kids like that. And then when they get to a
certain age and they can start saying like, oh, their frame is
built for rugby or, or they're getting really tall, they'll be
good at basketball. Then they take them out of that
and then they specialize them for that sport.
And it's like, it's a really good system.
Like if you want elite athletes, it's probably not the most
ethical, but it's forgetting top level and that's why they do so
well. Don't forget the juicing program
as well. But like when you look at how
they just train in general, like there is a lot of just general
physical preparedness, especially in Russia where it's
just like, we want to train all of these qualities.
And then when you get older, you can go off and specialize.
And that's what free running gave me.
I had like all of the athletic qualities.
I could run, I could jump, I could absorb force, I could
produce force. I could change directions really
quick. I became really agile.
And it's like now that I'm older and I'm like, well, I want to go
rock climbing. It's like, well, I can, I've got
that base. Oh, I want to do Olympic
lifting. And even if it's something
really new to me, like because the way that my brain works
processing movements, I've got lots of things that I can draw
inspiration from. And I'm like, oh, this is a
similar movement. Like doing an Olympic lift is
very similar to doing a jump. So I learned it quite quickly
because I'm like, oh, like this feels the same.
So you just make those connections and then you learn
quicker because it's compared to something you've already done
where someone that hasn't trained before trying to teach
them to Olympic lift and they've like, they can't remember the
last time they did a jump because how many people jump
these days? It's like they find it really
hard. And it's like, well, I can learn
things quick because I've got this awareness of my body.
And I just, yeah, I don't think enough people do do.
Do the other stuff. You've, as we said, you've come
onto the endurance running scene.
You're doing really bloody well, winning second place, third
place, whatever. You get in, you know what?
But podiuming, podiuming, right, You're getting up there, you're
in the and you've come from. What is it about your training?
Can you pinpoint the type, the types of training that other
people aren't doing that other has enabled you to come into
this? Because I'd imagine a lot of
people just run, right? You do the strengths, you do the
plyometrics. Do you feel that that's given
you a massive benefit that it's made easier for you to just sort
of walk, waltz in and pick up those trophies like?
Well the strength stuff has made me robust so I can handle upping
my load very quickly whereas most people can't.
So I could go from nothing to running an ultra like I said
when I started. I would get injured and then I
did the same thing for my next two ultras, but I would be less
injured each time because I'd built more of a best base each
time, even though I didn't train for my first 3 ultras at all
really. And then that, I mean, my third
one was last year. So I've gone from 3 / a five
year period and getting injured after each one to I'm on 22
ultras this year now. So like the jumps be massive,
but I can make that jump because of my strength training.
I've got that base. So I get injured less.
When I get injured, I can recover quicker.
And I don't just like not do stuff when I'm injured.
Like a lot of runners, when they're injured, they're like,
well, I can't run, so I'm just going to not run.
And it's like, well, I've got all these other things that I
enjoy doing, I can go off and do and I'm still active, I've still
got my fitness. I'm not losing anything by not
training. And then I can just jump back in
when I'm ready. So that's like 1 aspect.
I'm really good at rehab. I've been injured so much.
Like I've got, I've got it nailed.
Like people come to me for, well, people come to me for
injury advice and then they'll go and see their physios and
then they'll be like, oh, this is like my friend or my coach
has planned this for me. And then the physios like I've
never had bad feedback from the physio being like, oh, I
wouldn't do that. It's always been like, Oh no,
that's really good, stick to doing that.
And then they haven't given anything else because they're
like, you've got it covered. So I'm like, OK, cool.
I'm happy with that. So like, my rehab process is
literally. And that's just from years of
being injured and doing it myself and then realizing how
important it is to stick to because it's so common.
You just get bored of it. And it's like, I'm doing this
banded exercise for my ankle again.
And then you're hard. Just stop doing it.
Yeah, not helping. But then because I've been
through it and I've seen the benefits so many times, I'm
like, cool, I'm going to be religious about this.
And it's how I went from after the 6th, for example, I was on
crutches for a month, then I was off crutches for a week.
Well, the day I came off crutches I did the Welsh Free
Peaks, not the world, the Abergavenny Three Peaks.
So I did that. So that's not an easy day out.
And then a week later I did the rhythm again as the actual event
and I came top ten and I was a week off crutches.
So it's like, yeah, I could feel the niggle, but I was like, it's
not getting worse. So I'm not damaging it more.
I just have to put up with the pain and know that it's not
getting worse and then I can still perform.
So there's that imply metrics like no one does plyometrics.
They're great, They're amazing. And everyone's like, I look like
an idiot, look like an idiot when you get out on the trails
and you're racing like you'll thank yourself.
I see you bounded around everywhere in your little on
your Instagram Reels and stuff like that.
I'm like, it must be something in that because you do you're
doing so well in the running. Yeah, but it's also I just, I
like doing it. Like it is fun, but like I've
got clients. I had a client who was doing the
slam and she can run for the last month of the slam because
she was dealing with this injury.
She had this injury since before she came to me and then it was
like, well, you've signed up mid slam so we just got to get
through the races and then we're going to tone back your running
and focus on recovering. But for now, because you've got
this goal, we just have to, it's like important to you.
So we will just sacrifice a bit of our health for it and that's
OK. I think everyone does that, but
it's like being aware of it that people don't do.
But like the last month we didn't do any running at all.
No speed work. And we just did strength
training and she was happy with how she felt on the day because
she was like, I haven't run for a month and I feel like I'm
going to be really shit at running, but I wasn't actually
that bad. And I'm like, yeah, because
you've been doing strength stuff like it helps.
Wasting away. You're not sat there atrophy and
you know your muscles, you're sort of keeping them, keeping
them going. I like it.
And then I've got another client who everyone knows.
Dan Morgan. Plot TV does every fucking race
under the sun. Where's?
That's what he says, isn't it? And he's he's on a plan with me
now and I've got him doing more pliers than I do because he
loves it as well. But he's seeing the benefit
because he'd never really like done him as structured as I've
given him. Same with his strength work that
now when he's doing these races, he's like, that's the best I
felt after race and he's like, I could push more but like I was
having my fun bus. But he's like now I feel like
there's more in the tank and he wants to like explore that a bit
more. And that's really exciting for
me because he's known for doing like these incredible challenges
of like the dance slam, like it's literally named after him.
Like he does the Pegasus Slam with the 200 miler, with the 100
milers, then he goes off to Canada to do a 200 miler all in
a year. And it's just like he's known
for that. So for him to be training with
me and then being like, I can really see a benefit from what
you're doing with me, I'm just like over the moon with that.
Yeah. No, he's done really well.
To be fair. He's done really well.
Last question that Will, I'll end on this.
What's the lesson from all your challenges and all your training
that you carry through to in into everyday life?
It's probably something that I'm battling with myself a lot
recently and it's super simple, but I really struggle with it.
Don't take it too seriously. And like, I think that's been
like the theme of this podcast, right?
Is I've been like, don't, don't think too much.
Just fucking get out and do it. And like, set yourself these
goals, but don't obsess over them.
Don't get too caught up in the hype around them.
Don't go out and do it for you. I'm just, yeah, it's the same
with life. Just like do what you want to
do. Like don't take it too
seriously. And I struggle with that.
Like, I struggle a lot with my mental health and I, I'm really
struggling at the minute. And I have to keep reminding
myself like, it's not that deep. Like I get paid to do the shit
that I'm doing. And I've got this reputation of
like, being this like person that just gets to go off and
have these adventures. My brand is called Adventure
Athletes. And then I'm at home, like
stressing being like, oh, we've got bills to pay.
And it's like I can always get a job.
Like if I wanted to, I can go out and get a job and stack
shelves in Tesco's or whatever. Like if I really cared about
money, I wouldn't be doing the things that I'm doing now, but I
probably wouldn't be as happy. Like I wouldn't get the
opportunities I get. Like I've got so many stories
from this year from quitting like a full time job to doing
this full time. And I'm like, at some point it's
probably going to fail and I'm going to have to give it up and
do something a bit more serious. And then I'll be looking back at
this and being like, what a fucking year I've had or like 2
years or five years, however long this might last.
And then I'll be annoyed at myself for taking it too
seriously when I'm in it and being like, oh, I'm stressed
about this. Oh, I got to deal.
Fucking shut up and go on with it.
Like you'd live in the dream. Really.
Like I feel privileged. I like that.
No regrets either. Because imagine you didn't try.
You didn't have a bash, you didn't have a goal.
You'd regret it so much looking back on that's what.
That was my time. And then, as you said, like, and
then you did try it and you're like, oh, bloody, I was
miserable all the time because I was moaning by everything.
Now bloody just yeah. Don't take it too seriously.
Yeah, you will. You will.
I like that. Don't take it.
Don't take it too seriously. Like when I look back over the
past year, I've done so much like so much that I not just in
my challenges and in my ultras and stuff, but like for other
people as well. But that's what's like really
important to me is like, I think you need the thing for yourself,
but you need the thing for other people.
What you do for others, whether that's the podcast, whether
that's me going out and supporting other people's events
and being their crew or like arranging day trips for people
and doing the fucking Welsh three peaks, Abbott of any three
peaks. So in like community hikes and
organizing to go to Ninja warrior and shit like that.
It's like they're all like, you stress about them in the build
up and like, I got to do this and oh, why did I agree to this?
And then you look back and you're like, they had an amazing
time and I really enjoyed being there and helping them with it.
And I'm getting paid to do it. And it's like, why the fuck am I
stressed? Like, yeah.
And I think, yeah, people just need to put their life into
perspective and just be like, if you look back on your life, what
bits are you remembering? Do more of that.
Yeah, it's simple really, isn't it?
It's simple really. Will where can people follow you
if they want to follow your journey, If they want to sign,
get you as a coach? Where, where are you going to
direct them? So adventure athletes website,
just Google adventure athletes will come up.
Got the podcast, we've got my training Instagram account, got
my personal Instagram account. Too many accounts.
I get overwhelmed by social media and messages and stuff.
I love helping people, so it's like the payoff.
Yeah, I'd love to go off grid, but it's not how business works,
unfortunately. If anyone wants to just pay me
to run off, actually I've got to do this.
Just on the off chance that it could happen.
I'm looking for sponsorship right now, very specific
sponsorship. You're going to love this.
I want to be sponsored by a pickle brand.
I've since the six. I love gherkins.
I eat them out the jar now and it's so good for ultras, like
drinking the, the pickle juice. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't know
this was a thing. I, you hear like Americans do it
and whatnot. And I was like, no, surely.
And then on day 5 of it, I was like, I've I want some Pickles.
Like getting the electrolytes and everything back in it is
really good fuel. And I'm sat there in my like,
delirious state trying to get Pickles out the jar and I just,
I couldn't be bothered anymore. So I pick up the jar and I just
drink out of it. It's like a shot.
Like it's better than electrolyte drinks 100%.
I see it all the time on the on the Facebook groups and stuff
they're all banging on about. People, you ever have stomach
issues, drink some, it will settle your stomach.
Honestly best thing you can do full of electrolytes, things
like that. It's great and it tastes
amazing. Better than fucking those little
chews or whatever. Like no thanks, I'll have a
pickle. And it's cheap as chips, yeah,
like big job, £1.50 or something.
Yeah, so. On a mission to get sponsored by
a pickle brand and I I will run 100 Miller dressed as a pickle.
Eating only pickle flavored things or like things where
pickle is a main ingredient in it.
Drinking only pickle juice out of my flasks.
This is your next big challenge. It's Rockman exclusive The
Pickle 100 mile. OK, any.
Pickle brands out there that want to sponsor me give me a
shout like I am so up for it. Well, thank you very much.
Thanks for coming on. It's been a great chat and we'll
we'll follow you and catch up soon.
Absolute pleasure mate. Congratulations, you made it to
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