1
00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:05,000
Yeah, I went to the Oscars. 
It's super weird. 

2
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,440
But at the same time I was also 
not prepared because I got a lot

3
00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,240
of texts from people afterwards 
who said like, wow, it must have

4
00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,440
been amazing, especially with 
the must like. 

5
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,080
So I feel bad to say that like, 
it was a bit an anti climax. 

6
00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:23,360
Let's say I never in my life 
felt more as a nobody than I 

7
00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:27,000
felt there. 
Especially if you're like the 

8
00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,760
editor of a documentary you're 
really like, who the fuck are 

9
00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,240
you? 
We are. 

10
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:37,040
I'm Nosovchenko. 
And Pierre Paulo Filomeno and 

11
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,480
this is Editors Anonymous. 
A podcast about film editing 

12
00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:43,640
made by film editors. 
Like in a group therapy session,

13
00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,080
we chat with fellow editors 
about how they approach a scene,

14
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,440
how they tune into a director's 
vision, whether they ever feel 

15
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,320
afraid when starting a new 
project, and the tricks they've 

16
00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,520
picked up along the way. 
In short, we try to figure out 

17
00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,160
how to live and survive in a job
that's so subjective and and 

18
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:04,319
almost mysterious. 
Editors Anonymous started in 

19
00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:09,120
2021 as an Italian podcast, but 
now offers episodes in either 

20
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,920
Italian or English. 
Check the title for the 

21
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,440
language. 
Today we are joined by Rick 

22
00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,920
Choubert, editor of the Oscar 
nominated documentary Soundtrack

23
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,360
to A Cup Data. 
Rick, so you're both an editor 

24
00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,680
and a director now. 
You directed short movies and 

25
00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,800
music videos and soundtrack to a
coup d'etat was your first 

26
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,440
feature length film as an editor
and directly you went to the 

27
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,280
Oscars, which is great, but what
is also very interesting is that

28
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,400
you started with an internship 
with Johann Grimonpre. 

29
00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,320
Yeah, sure. 
So indeed, like my director 

30
00:01:45,320 --> 00:01:49,160
practice and my editor practice 
are very intertwined. 

31
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,080
As I see the movies that I 
direct, there's also a very big 

32
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,960
focus on editing. 
And it's like I see this like 

33
00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,840
the the place where I create my 
films, where I write the films 

34
00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,200
or something. 
And in Belgium, looking at other

35
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,360
directors discovering their 
films, I just, I bumped onto 

36
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,200
this director who has a similar 
approach, namely Joanne Hiri 

37
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:18,640
Montre, who also more it's with 
every documentary, but maybe 

38
00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:24,080
more than other documentaries, 
really writes his films in the 

39
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,320
editing room. 
It's where they they get created

40
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,160
or something. 
So from this perspective of a 

41
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,840
director, I started doing an 
internship with the director, 

42
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,760
Joao Girimontre. 
It was in my master's, I think. 

43
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,480
And when this ended, it was just
an internship like doing Yeah, 

44
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,360
you know, the shitty jobs coffee
presents. 

45
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,320
What's coffee? 
Johan makes the tea always. 

46
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,600
So he's always running around 
tea for me. 

47
00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:59,040
And at the end of the my 
internship, I graduated, I 

48
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,640
needed a job. 
And that it was just around the 

49
00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:04,840
time that Johan was in a very 
early stage together with 

50
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,920
producer Dan millions of like 
starting the movie that would 

51
00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:16,560
become soundtrack to Kurita. 
Johan he he used to work in 

52
00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,080
Final Cut Pro, but the decision 
was made to to make this film in

53
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:29,760
Adobe Premiere and me as a cheap
right out of school intern was 

54
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:36,320
put on board to learn Johan how 
to work with Adobe Premiere. 

55
00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:42,800
And so we worked together for 10
days to really which very early 

56
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,080
sketches of an idea of a scene 
for that would make it into the 

57
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:53,800
movie just from the idea of me 
showing Johan how Adobe Premiere

58
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,920
works. 
But it clicked immediately and 

59
00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,880
it was of course, I think 
because of me as a director 

60
00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,000
Felden connection with the way 
Johan works. 

61
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:09,720
And so in these ten days, we, we
constructed a whole scene that 

62
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:15,480
is like, I think almost barely 
changed how it is now in the 

63
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,560
film. 
It's like when Nikita Khrushchev

64
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:23,400
lands in America in 1959. 
And so that was the first scene 

65
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:30,160
that we created together. 
And so I stayed on boards since 

66
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:35,080
then, actually. 
So indeed, as a, as a starting 

67
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:40,200
editor with my first film 
getting to the Oscars, I skipped

68
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,760
some a lot of exciting on the 
one hand. 

69
00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,680
On the other hand, I must say, 
like I, it was, I worked like 

70
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,760
three to four years on this 
film. 

71
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,480
So it was not just I, I worked 
on a film and I was there 

72
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,960
immediately. 
I, I had a huge growth process 

73
00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,160
while editing this film. 
The scale, it was like every day

74
00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,440
on a high level sort of 
training. 

75
00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,480
I sometimes compared to fitness 
that I was like really every day

76
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,320
lifting a lot of weights, but a 
typical parkour maybe. 

77
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,320
Yeah, we. 
Will talk about the writing of 

78
00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,680
soundtrack in a moment, but 
first, what immediately struck 

79
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,680
me about soundtrack was the 
depth of its layers and teams 

80
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:29,120
like jazz, politics, literature 
and all are woven together 

81
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:34,320
through other three constantly 
interlaced media archives. 

82
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,360
Music, of course, and on screen 
text. 

83
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,200
So how did you manage balancing 
all these layers, both in 

84
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,960
organizing your workflow and in 
shaping how the audience 

85
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,440
experience them on screen all at
the same time sometime? 

86
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,880
Yeah, yeah. 
The making of this film took a 

87
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:58,080
very long time and it's existed 
out of different steps. 

88
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,280
And I think every step is 
important to understand why the 

89
00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:05,520
movie is as it is. 
Let's say the first step is the 

90
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,560
archiving of all the footage is 
already a form of writing the 

91
00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,120
story, let's say. 
The folder structure is a way of

92
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,280
writing, let's say. 
And especially with this movie, 

93
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:22,040
before editing there, the folder
structure was already split into

94
00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:26,000
three parts. 
They were like history, music 

95
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,200
and poetry. 
And so in this distinction, to 

96
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:35,160
split it in these three folders 
is already the movie present in 

97
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,320
a way or something. 
And then out of these folders 

98
00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,600
came like thousands of other 
subfolders. 

99
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,600
And so the, the archiving as a 
form of writing the story 

100
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:51,240
already is maybe very important.
And then maybe this movie is 

101
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,480
it's like an Organism. 
It's in the beginning, it wasn't

102
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:56,680
sure what it will be or 
something. 

103
00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,160
So it grew very slowly. 
And while editing, we had like 

104
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,360
breaks in which you started 
doing more research and reading 

105
00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,600
more books. 
And while playing with certain 

106
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,280
scenes, we went on YouTube to 
look for like, oh, it would be 

107
00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:12,160
great if we found someone say a 
quote about this. 

108
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,560
And then we went in a rabbit 
hole on YouTube and we bumped 

109
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,560
into a quote by Malcolm X and 
wow, is such an interesting 

110
00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:20,480
character. 
Let's look more up on Malcolm X.

111
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,800
And voila. 
And then we do more research on 

112
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,280
Malcolm X and suddenly Malcolm X
is one of the narrators of the 

113
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,600
film or something. 
So it's not as in like classical

114
00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,000
Hollywood's movies, like the 
movie's not a supply chain where

115
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,040
the first step stops and then we
go to the next step. 

116
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,560
And it was like really super 
chaotic. 

117
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,520
Everything Everywhere, all at 
once, the one defining the 

118
00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,480
other. 
This way of working, I think was

119
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:54,560
in this intensity, mostly 
possible also because of the 

120
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,240
presence of YouTube, let's say, 
and certain software where you 

121
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:04,120
can just RIP a file from YouTube
and the speed with which you can

122
00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,360
do all this. 
So I had this workflow in the 

123
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,760
beginning where we were editing 
and at the same time suddenly 

124
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,920
decided like, oh, it would be 
great if we found a shot of an 

125
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:14,760
elephant. 
And then we went on YouTube on 

126
00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,800
the second screen, went into a 
rabbit, told to find a shot of 

127
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,120
an elephant, suddenly discovered
a completely different shots. 

128
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:31,200
And then I could just instantly 
RIP this video, put it in Media 

129
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,120
Encoder instantly on the 
timeline and start editing with 

130
00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,000
this. 
And this was like after a while,

131
00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,960
speedy dance workflow that was 
that took me a few minutes. 

132
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,320
And so it was like constructing 
these methods where you have 

133
00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,760
like everything that's on the 
Internet at your disposal and 

134
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,640
that you can surf on it, that 
it's not paralyzing because it's

135
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:58,600
so much, but that I could really
dive into these rabbit holes, 

136
00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,040
follow a hyperlink logic where 
you start somewhere and end 

137
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,200
somewhere else. 
And, and, and I really think 

138
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:12,200
this workflow started to fuse 
with the the form of the film 

139
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,360
itself. 
Like the movie itself feels like

140
00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,320
the workflow that I'm now 
explaining. 

141
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,800
It feels like this hyperlink 
logic. 

142
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,760
About How did you manage to 
balance all these teams and 

143
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:32,200
media at the same time? 
I think my philosophy around 

144
00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,920
structure, let's say, is like 
that. 

145
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:40,360
It is a tool to manage chaos or 
something like I think you can 

146
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,320
sometimes lose yourself as an 
editor in getting structure to 

147
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,560
stay structured or something, 
something. 

148
00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:52,720
And for me, this chaos, it was 
not needed to be paralyzed by, 

149
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,760
but really try to surf on the 
speeds and capture it or 

150
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,800
something. 
So for me, there are, I think 5 

151
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,160
or more, let's say. 
So you have the archival 

152
00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:08,880
footage, you have the music for 
me, you have the the texts and 

153
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,080
then also the voices like the 
the narrating, like the the 

154
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:13,080
speech. 
Yeah. 

155
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,120
And then also Foley, let's say, 
or something. 

156
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:20,640
Not see one of these elements is
like more important than another

157
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,440
element, but really see them as 
like defining each other and 

158
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:30,720
reacting on each other as like a
rhizomatic structure where 

159
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,240
everything defines the other or 
something. 

160
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:39,080
And so I also did all these 
things at once and while editing

161
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:45,400
they defined each other. 
Let's say the music is a lot of 

162
00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:50,520
the time very sampled. 
Let's say like in drum riffs, I 

163
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,600
sometimes loop a certain or 
something and then I put it back

164
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,200
a few times. 
And then at the same time we are

165
00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,000
defining the, the, the voice 
over what is being set. 

166
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,480
We, we play with the, the 
spacing of the, the timbre of 

167
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,920
the voice in relation to the 
music. 

168
00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,160
But at the same time, the 
contents of what is being set 

169
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,080
changes. 
So of course throughout the 

170
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:21,000
years scenes change and it's 
always, how do you say butterfly

171
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,280
effects or a ripple effect when 
you make one adjustments. 

172
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,760
So really if you change 1 words,
the, the construction with the 

173
00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,840
music changes. 
So it means like you need to cut

174
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,120
a drum out again or something. 
And the quotes are also really 

175
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:41,360
put on the rhythm of the music. 
And so these five elements are 

176
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,960
constantly changing. 
It's very interesting what you 

177
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,720
say, 'cause I was particularly 
curious when I watched the film,

178
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,480
because I can imagine you can 
work and improvise with the 

179
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,800
image and the sound. 
But I was very curious exactly 

180
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,440
how did you work with the text? 
Because it has very solid and 

181
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,040
special presence in the film. 
It has its character, right? 

182
00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:06,040
Was it also in the game from the
beginning? 

183
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,680
Did it jump in later? 
Was there like a pool of quotes,

184
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,880
words, historical facts that you
started to work with? 

185
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,840
So how did you work with text? 
Yes. 

186
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:23,400
So let's say what's Johan really
did on this film and what I 

187
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,560
what's really impressive is the 
research he did. 

188
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,440
He, let's say, read every book 
about the subject matter that 

189
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,240
I've done, had conversations 
with all the experts and like 

190
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,920
next to the editing table there 
was like this huge library with 

191
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,680
hundreds of books full of post 
its and like really crazy 

192
00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:49,000
professor style and the the 
scripts of the film was just a 

193
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,880
collection of quotes already. 
It's like this, you know, the 

194
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,600
book by Walter Benjamin. 
Passage of Paris, yeah. 

195
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,800
Yeah, So it was almost like this
the scripts. 

196
00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:01,160
So this was the starting point 
of the movie, let's say like 

197
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,480
this combination of all these 
quotes, like this funny, weird 

198
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,680
anecdotes about maybe it's 
important to say their layouts 

199
00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:12,680
was done by Hans Litani, who did
an amazing job to indeed, like 

200
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:21,120
find this relation with the the 
signature blue notes jazz label 

201
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,520
style. 
But for me as the editor, while 

202
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:28,040
working, it was like for all 
those years, like Ariel on 

203
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:32,040
black, not fancy. 
Yeah, yeah. 

204
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,840
Yeah, and did you have to change
the pacing of the writings after

205
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,560
the final layouts or they were 
pretty much the same? 

206
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,800
Before the edit was locked, it 
was already that we were playing

207
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,960
with Hans was already playing 
with the layout and finding the 

208
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:55,000
form. 
And so we already had some 

209
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,880
certain amount of quotes changed
in the film. 

210
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,160
And again, but then it was like 
heavy because like we kept 

211
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,840
changing the pacing and stuff. 
And so then I had like this 

212
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,120
alpha layer progress files in 
which I would crop started to, 

213
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,240
we kept changing the quotes or 
something. 

214
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,720
And then I needed this movie's 
like a form of action painting, 

215
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,240
which is also possible because 
of the speed of the process. 

216
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,600
Then combined with the other 
side, it's like really, it's a 

217
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,280
monk's work. 
It's like really nitpicking on 

218
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:33,040
every frame and really being 
like neurotic that everything is

219
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,360
at its place. 
And so it's this contrast 

220
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,160
between structure, chaos, 
action, painting, monks work. 

221
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,800
It reminds me, you know, you 
already said the word chaos 

222
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,560
couple of times and it reminds 
me, I don't know if you read the

223
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,720
book from Newspack Anderson 
Ordering Chaos, no. 

224
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,280
So editing is put in ordering 
chaos, and that's apparently 

225
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:53,960
what you did. 
Yeah, I read a book. 

226
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,880
It's really inspired me. 
I think that is the the the most

227
00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,880
interesting book about film 
editing. 

228
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,560
I would say way better than 
Walter March's. 

229
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,200
Blink Organized, yes. 
Walter marches for the masses. 

230
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,600
Yeah, exactly. 
Walter Marches for now. 

231
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,080
What I wanted to ask you is 
that, yeah, first I have to 

232
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,560
state that I'm a huge fan of 
Joanne Grimonpre, so since his 

233
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,200
first movie. 
So I want to ask you if you if 

234
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,680
you can, if you can describe 
your collaboration with him in 

235
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,200
the sense that, OK, you already 
told us that you don't have, you

236
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,640
didn't have any script. 
So, and I think that from what 

237
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,760
you say, it's basically his way 
of working, you know, his way of

238
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:40,240
notating script, just know 
taking ideas from the images, 

239
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,400
from the sound, from the words. 
But I also would like to know, 

240
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:50,480
being this your first experience
as a editor in a feature length 

241
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,880
film, no. 
So how was your collaboration 

242
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,800
with him also in that sense? 
Maybe I can link it to something

243
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,640
Neil Spack Anderson said in his 
book and which I really love 

244
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,240
this. 
Like what's what's for me, 

245
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:09,720
what's so inspiring is like 
every movie you need to start 

246
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,560
from scratch again as an editor 
or something and really see it 

247
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,200
as your first movie that you're 
editing and try to look for a 

248
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,920
new way of making it or 
something. 

249
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:25,440
And in that case, how I see 
myself as a first time editor, 

250
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:30,240
I, I try always to approach it. 
It's, it's an advantage. 

251
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,000
I, I think when I started the 
movie, I was 27. 

252
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,640
And what's made me very 
important is that I didn't 

253
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:44,440
really had the feeling of 
hierarchy of like, oh, this is 

254
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:50,400
this genius filmmaker that 
everything he says is like true 

255
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,080
and he knows better and I'm just
a dumb naive little starter or 

256
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,120
something. 
Joan had his ways of working. 

257
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,600
He had his experience with other
movies. 

258
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,520
He had invented his own 
language, his signature style 

259
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,440
that you can see also in 
soundtrack that's links very 

260
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,200
clearly to his other films. 
So in the beginning, of course, 

261
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,640
it was really learning. 
Then I have the feeling after a 

262
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:19,040
while I proved myself. 
Let's say there's a reason that 

263
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,599
I didn't wanted another editor 
on this project after a while. 

264
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:31,320
And I, I have the feeling that 
he, I earned his trust, let's 

265
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,720
say. 
And that's especially with let's

266
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:41,560
say music or pacing of rhythm 
that he really As for me, every 

267
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,200
good director does like sees the
potential of the people around 

268
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,960
you and directs you to push you 
to go further in that or 

269
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:53,360
something on the other side. 
I hope me as an editor that's 

270
00:17:53,360 --> 00:18:00,480
also been a fan of Johan, that's
pushed him to go further in 

271
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,800
being the crazy director he is, 
I can't imagine that he worked 

272
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,880
with an editor who was like, 
push him to be a bit calmer or 

273
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,400
something. 
I saw myself sometimes as like 

274
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,600
the devil on his shoulder and 
say, like, yeah, go further, go 

275
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,560
further, why not? 
But you all know it's such a 

276
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:22,480
complex thing like an editor, 
because it's like if you see an 

277
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,960
actor or something, it's clear 
what the actor has done. 

278
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,800
You see a DOP, you see the 
images, it's very clear. 

279
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,360
But as an editor or something, 
it's I'm very happy with 

280
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:35,080
soundtrack to put it up because 
it's an exceptional visibly 

281
00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:39,040
edited movie. 
But in general, it's like for 

282
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,160
me, an editor, you, you, you do 
the cuts, you do the pacing, you

283
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,720
do all this. 
But you also are in a way, like 

284
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,720
a therapist. 
You, you guide this uncertain 

285
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,120
individual and create a safe 
environment where they can be 

286
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,640
themselves. 
You, you, you start watching 

287
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,520
with their perspective. 
I start watching the footage 

288
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,840
with Johann's perspective. 
I really went to Russia's and 

289
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,480
saw like this tiny funny detail 
somewhere in an image. 

290
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,280
And my look was like, oh, this 
is really a signature. 

291
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,520
You're agreement pretty short. 
Let's highlight it or something.

292
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:18,280
So it's like this, as an editor,
you start to imitate and 

293
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,600
understand the perspective of a 
director. 

294
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:29,280
And maybe also what I really try
to do is my position as an 

295
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:34,000
ignorant person, really try to 
embrace this because like, 

296
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,000
Johann really, really is an 
expert on the subject matter. 

297
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,400
Let's say you really read every 
book, as I said already, and 

298
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,680
this can also be a danger or 
something. 

299
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:52,400
Let's speak about your 
experience with music because 

300
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,800
it's one of the subjects, but is
also present all, all, all the 

301
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,080
time. 
So it's like there is this 

302
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:08,160
continuous soundscape in the in 
the music, in the film and and I

303
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,400
think that. 
Sometimes you use music to 

304
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,400
underline or highlight some key 
moment in the film with not to 

305
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,600
achieve the dramatic effect. 
But in your case it was more the

306
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,360
opposite so you had to use 
silence to achieve this. 

307
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,560
So this was my impression and 
especially love 2 moments when 

308
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:31,440
it happened, when you have this 
orchestra conductor and in 

309
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,360
another moment you have called 
training. 

310
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,400
So they both are playing music. 
So in both cases we are seeing 

311
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,200
music but we cannot hear it. 
And it was so strong, so 

312
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,720
powerful, so beautiful. 
How did you approach in general 

313
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,920
the presence of the music and 
the use of the music? 

314
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:51,600
And you mentioned before you 
were looping, sampling some 

315
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,320
sound. 
So this this, at least in my 

316
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,840
practice, in my process, it's 
uncommon. 

317
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,640
Yeah, so the the example of the 
conductor, what I really like is

318
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,160
this taking influences from 
stupid YouTube videos and like 

319
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,040
doing something else with it and
like you have this YouTube 

320
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,160
trends of like music less music 
video yeah. 

321
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,440
So what silence does, or Foley 
in that case, then it's it makes

322
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,760
you look differently at the 
image or something. 

323
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:23,200
So I'm very proud to be the 
music editor of this movie that 

324
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,720
I also got these credits. 
And what influenced me is like 

325
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,160
the music I listened to when I 
was growing up. 

326
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,920
And it's like this chop and 
screw mentality, let's say, of 

327
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,760
sample music really inspired me.
I have the feeling that I've 

328
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,400
edited this movie on the rhythm.
It's not thinking and doing, but

329
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,720
really being in a beat of 
clicking. 

330
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,040
Like my clicking was really in 
the rhythm. 

331
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,040
And so to be staying in the 
rhythm, half of the time I'm 

332
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,960
making mistakes and I'm pressing
commands set like the undo 

333
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,600
button. 
So I'm really like just, but it 

334
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,760
just to keep in the, to stay in 
the basing of like editing on 

335
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,480
the rhythm. 
It's like click, click, click, 

336
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,400
click, click. 
That you could say because it's 

337
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,400
a form of percussion. 
Me as an editor, I try to 

338
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,880
synchronize with the music I'm 
listening to with respect for 

339
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,960
the original intention and 
intensity and energy of the 

340
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:19,280
songs. 
Sample it to let it relate to 

341
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,120
the other layers, the image and 
the voices and the text. 

342
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,800
What I find, a very strong 
example maybe, is the way how 

343
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,920
music deconstructs the image, 
how it makes you look 

344
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,920
differently. 
It's the original intention of 

345
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,240
the image, let's say, which is 
maybe with archival footage from

346
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,240
that era. 
Very important since a lot of 

347
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:47,560
footage we're working with is 
like films by colonial races. 

348
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,120
So you work with a different 
perspective. 

349
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,280
What's dangerous about archival 
footage or just original 

350
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,640
footage, I think is that it's 
it's pretends to be objective. 

351
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,120
It's pretends with archival 
especially you think like 

352
00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:06,880
heights from history. 
It's like this uncontaminated 

353
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,240
artifacts from history. 
And that's of course not the 

354
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,640
case. 
I remember in my research face, 

355
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,080
we I was like looking for you 
have this moment of Patrice 

356
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,480
Lumumba. 
He got captured and they put his

357
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,720
speech in his mouth and it's 
from it's a news reel. 

358
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,320
And then I was in my research 
meeting to check all the 

359
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,160
different news reels from this 
moment to see if one has the 

360
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,080
best footage or if one has 
something else. 

361
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,280
And it's like super interesting 
then to see all these different 

362
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:41,040
perspectives from this events 
and all the tiny differences in 

363
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:46,000
montage, in narration, in music,
even again, to create this news 

364
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,080
reel. 
So we worked with like the the 

365
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,080
Dutch one, the American one, the
British one, the French one, the

366
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,840
Cuban one, the Russian one. 
And they all have like these 

367
00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:01,480
different edits, different 
construction of this of events 

368
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,920
that they all pretend to be 
neutral objective. 

369
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,800
Let's say if one where they 
focus on his wife crying that 

370
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,480
her husband is going to die, one
is on like eyes of communist 

371
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,040
good, good rhythms. 1 is on like
the strongman Mobutu watching 

372
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,280
from afar. 1 is on like the the 
killer Mobutu. 

373
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,080
So every newsreel is like tiny 
different edits. 

374
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,440
And so, but I think with 
soundtrack, what we did is like 

375
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,520
it's super objectively edited. 
It's like a construction with 

376
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,440
like deconstructing, taking the 
sound off, putting music 

377
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,680
underneath. 
And what this for me does is 

378
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:39,040
like show that all this footage 
has been subjective all the time

379
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,800
or something by giving a 
different subjective edits. 

380
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,080
And maybe the last thing that 
music does very well for me is 

381
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,800
maybe in relation to the voices.
What's we did a lot is like 

382
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,640
edited the speeches on the music
that it sometimes starts feeling

383
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,720
as if it's the the lyrics of a 
song, let's say, as if they're 

384
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,760
like singing on top of these 
songs. 

385
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:12,200
And this is not, I think, just a
gimmicky fancy construction. 

386
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,880
This is for me really getting to
the the core of this movie and 

387
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,840
what it shows for me is that all
these speeches that we hear, all

388
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,480
these rhetorics are a 
performance in themselves. 

389
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,240
And like Khrushchev in the 
United Nations, Patrice Lumumba,

390
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,720
they they're all a performance. 
They use words in a certain way.

391
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,840
They they take pauses. 
They have their own stomping on 

392
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:40,040
the on the beat or something. 
They all have their way of 

393
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,040
singing in a way. 
And like combining this with 

394
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,280
music shows this this on one's, 
but on the other sides, I think 

395
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,200
shows that this music has always
been political. 

396
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,280
I had the next question from a 
little bit different dimension 

397
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:58,840
from the editing process itself.
When I saw the credits of the 

398
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,240
film, I saw there's a huge 
segment of special thanks to the

399
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,680
people who gave feedback. 
So I was wondering how soon did 

400
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,880
you open the rough cut to the 
people outside of the editing 

401
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,720
room? 
How the rough cut screens or 

402
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,640
feedback sessions were 
organized? 

403
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,560
How did you take in the inputs 
and feedback that people gave, 

404
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,840
if you can tell us a bit about 
that? 

405
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,320
Yeah, we, we did a lot of 
feedback sessions and a lot of 

406
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,440
screenings from very early on. 
I think we started, we very 

407
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,080
fasted after a few months like 
this 45 minutes version. 

408
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,480
It were like 6 scenes, which 
they also used to get more 

409
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,640
funding and like this 45 minutes
we show to a lot of people and 

410
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,520
it was really integral to the 
process. 

411
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,880
Indeed, these feedback sessions,
they were always just never like

412
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,200
in fancy settings, just behind 
the computer with crappy boxes. 

413
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,960
That's just a few people came 
in. 

414
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,040
Afterwards we had a drink and 
talked about this. 

415
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:03,240
And for me as an editor, these 
were very important because also

416
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,640
you can get stuck on giving your
own opinion or something. 

417
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,120
And what I love to do is like 
when discussing further with 

418
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:15,600
Johann directions of the movies,
like quoting feedback or saying 

419
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:21,040
like, I can even not agree with 
certain feedback, but really try

420
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,160
to note down everything that's 
being said, every perspective 

421
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,080
that every person gave and try 
to understand this perspective 

422
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,800
and read it and not just blindly
follow what they said. 

423
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,640
But really they said probably 
this because 10 minutes earlier 

424
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,880
we did that. 
And maybe if we change this 20 

425
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:41,120
minutes earlier this, then his 
complaint about 20 minutes later

426
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,720
is solved or something. 
So this not too blindly follow, 

427
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,400
but you all know either like 
this cliche of like when people 

428
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,800
come and give me they they 
started, I would do this. 

429
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,760
I would make this movie from it,
especially if you ask other film

430
00:27:54,760 --> 00:28:01,040
makers, they they start to make 
their own film and and that's 

431
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,400
not the most interesting 
feedback. 

432
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,640
And another important thing 
about these feedback sessions is

433
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,520
with this movie, I really try to
embrace my ignorance and not 

434
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,200
think like, Hey, I know 
everything about this. 

435
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:18,720
I'm I need to hide what I don't 
know because I need to show off 

436
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,160
how, how smart I am about this 
subject and blah, blah, blah. 

437
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,840
But it's really about like, 
understand that you have your 

438
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:31,040
limitations as a person from 
your perspective, and be open to

439
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,560
understand these limitations and
these perspectives. 

440
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,840
And maybe especially with the 
movie that we're making is like 

441
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,400
me and Joan, we're both white 
men. 

442
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,360
We're white Belgian men telling 
this story that's like 

443
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,600
international, a mix of 
Congolese perspectives, Russian 

444
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,440
perspectives, Iron Irish 
perspectives, all these 

445
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,640
different perspectives. 
It's tapped from an experience 

446
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,360
that Johan and I don't have. 
So in these feedback sessions, 

447
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,720
it's important that a lot of 
people who watch this footage 

448
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:13,320
from different perspectives, how
they respond to it, how the how 

449
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,200
the movie resonates with them. 
And sometimes they don't even 

450
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,960
need to say it, But it's really 
weird when you're watching this 

451
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,600
footage that you've been seeing 
for a few years and suddenly 

452
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,040
sits next to someone that's 
that's crying with a scene that 

453
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,120
you are on automatic pilot 
watching for the way 200th time.

454
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,960
And then it's suddenly 
surprising like, ah, yeah, ah, 

455
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,680
yeah, wow. 
I, I can, I can understand. 

456
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,200
I never thought of this. 
That's that it's emotionally 

457
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,760
resonates with you and I find it
so beautiful about our 

458
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,240
profession like this letting go 
of it or something that now an 

459
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,960
audience claims it and like 
makes it their own and feels 

460
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,640
things with this movie that I 
understand why they feel it, but

461
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,320
that I not per SE myself felt. 
And in that way, maybe the we 

462
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,520
makers are, I think, a bridge 
between this original footage, 

463
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,160
this original energy and people.
That's what. 

464
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,360
See it for the first time or get
in touch with it in a way. 

465
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,520
You said that, you know, which 
is connected to what you're 

466
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,680
saying. 
You know, you've been working, 

467
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,840
you usually work on a movie for 
years and you said that you've 

468
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,800
been working on this movie for 
three years. 

469
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,400
But I, I, I, I don't think 
you've been editing all day 

470
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,240
long, every day for three years.
So can you number like let's say

471
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:36,480
really can you say a number of 
weeks if you can or so how did 

472
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,920
the process went? 
I don't know you had you worked 

473
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,280
for a month, then you took a 
break, then you worked for 

474
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,360
another month. 
Or how did how did it work? 

475
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,680
Yeah. 
So OK from the beginning, I 

476
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,000
started in September 2020, it 
was in the Covic period. 

477
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,120
You are also sometimes lives in 
Greece. 

478
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,640
So we were doing separate work. 
It was like me doing also a lot 

479
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,400
of you aren't reading a lot, you
aren't finding a lot of footage.

480
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,920
Me also just diving in the 
project, checking all the 

481
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,000
footage, making selects and 
learning a lot about subject 

482
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,840
matter. 
That's that's went on for 1/2 a 

483
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,480
year, let's say. 
And then we continued editing 

484
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,360
again the periods and then the 
movie got formed. 

485
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,080
There got more funding. 
Other people got involved like 

486
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:25,000
Remit Veletti, another producer.
And then I think mid 2021 it 

487
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,400
became like full time. 
And then it was with this idea, 

488
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,320
OK, we're rushing to this 2022 
Sunland's deadline. 

489
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,960
And so then it was like really 
way too intense, non-stop, long 

490
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,280
days, weekends. 
I decided, OK, I'm not going to 

491
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,320
take a summer break. 
I'm not going to go on a holiday

492
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,720
because we're rushing towards 
this deadline. 

493
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,320
And then the deadline was there 
and there was decided, yeah, 

494
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,040
it's not yet finished, Let's 
continue. 

495
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,920
And that was a moment that I 
discovered like, yeah, your, 

496
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,120
your personal life needs to be 
on the 1st place. 

497
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,680
And there will always be an 
important next deadline. 

498
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,480
And so like, it was a good 
lesson for me in boundaries or 

499
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,600
something. 
We compare this movie often with

500
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,520
like a sprinting, a marathon. 
The pacing at which we did it, 

501
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,600
it was like not chill. 
It was like constantly rushing 

502
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,640
to get to the deadline. 
And once we reached that 

503
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,800
deadline, it was again rushing 
to the next one. 

504
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,600
OK, let's switch to something 
glamour now because you attended

505
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,960
the Oscars night this year. 
So how was it? 

506
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,440
Can you tell us about the behind
the scenes? 

507
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,560
I don't know, some juicy 
stories. 

508
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:47,360
My analysis of the Oscars. 
It's super weird to see all 

509
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,640
these celebrities and how normal
it feels, let's say. 

510
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,320
But at the same time, I was also
not prepared because I got a lot

511
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,160
of texts from people afterwards 
who said like wow, it must have 

512
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,360
been amazing, especially with a 
must like. 

513
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:06,360
So I feel bad to say that like 
it was a bit an anti climax. 

514
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,240
Let's say it's like it's funny 
because like you're at in the 

515
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:17,120
movie worlds, like on the top of
the, the, the team, like the the

516
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,760
big thing, like the Oscars. 
But I never in my life felt more

517
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,880
as a nobody than I felt there. 
Especially if you're like the 

518
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,680
editor of a documentary, you're 
really like, who the fuck are 

519
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,080
you? 
But yeah, it's a weird place. 

520
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,960
It's like there are like a few 
thousands people and everybody 

521
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,120
wants to see these 50 
celebrities and doesn't really 

522
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:49,960
care about the rest, let's say. 
And so I think it's not fun for 

523
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,320
these celebrities. 
I saw them and I felt a bit 

524
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,400
scared. 
Like you see them like because 

525
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,440
yeah, it's a job at the moment. 
But like everyone's, you see 

526
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,760
that. 
Everyone's trying to look at 

527
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,480
them. 
And I took some selfies with 

528
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,880
some celebrities, but I didn't 
ask them. 

529
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,400
I just put my face those when 
when they were in the back. 

530
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,960
I have a nice selfie with Ariana
Grande which I'm proud of. 

531
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,440
Did you do any campaign like 
some parties or things like 

532
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,440
that? 
I think the Johan, Dan, Johanna 

533
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,480
and me and I think Dan also, 
they were there earlier. 

534
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,320
I was like, it was really the 
crazy week of my life. 

535
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,719
I'm so I'm as a director 
shooting my feature fiction 

536
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,080
film. 
And it was during that period 

537
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,360
and it was really I moved some 
scheduling dates to shoot my own

538
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,600
film to visit the Oscars. 
And so I really, I was there 

539
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,000
like a week. 
And so I had a week of filming 

540
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,520
my own feature. 
Then I flew to LA and went to 

541
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,440
the Oscars and then I came back 
and started shooting my own film

542
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,280
again. 
It's really funny because my 

543
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,520
movies like the the most low 
budgeting ever. 

544
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,760
So it's like really me, the OP 
sound woman and the actress like

545
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:14,120
in a living room, very DIY 
crappy, but super amazing. 

546
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,320
So much fun and it's so crappy. 
And then while I wish we stopped

547
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,480
shooting, I took a flight to LA 
to be there there on like the 

548
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:29,800
Super fancy glamorous. 
It was like a really fun clash 

549
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,520
of different worlds. 
Let's say it's not that fun. 

550
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,520
And I think it really helps to 
know because like now I know 

551
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,120
like, Hey, I don't you don't 
need to do it for that. 

552
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,000
Like this idea of success or 
something like the journey is 

553
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:46,480
more important than the 
destination. 

554
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,200
It's like this cliche people 
say, but I'm I'm really happy 

555
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,000
that I can have experienced this
cliche and also like the movie 

556
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,520
premieres at Sundance and I was 
also there and that for me was 

557
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,880
really the celebration of the 
finishing of the film. 

558
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:02,440
Like really wow. 
We made it. 

559
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,040
We got it through the finish 
line. 

560
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,840
Congratulations. 
While for me, the Oscars, they 

561
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,560
were like the, the finish line 
of the the promo of the movie, 

562
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,040
not of the making, but of the 
distribution in Philly. 

563
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,000
The Oscars are like, it's 
celebration of the distributors 

564
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,360
and the, the, the producers and,
but not really for the makers or

565
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,120
something. 
So it was less of a celebration 

566
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,080
of, hey, we made it together. 
Although I, I, I think it, it 

567
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,640
will be that for the 
distributors, so. 

568
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:38,960
We usually ask editors what 
would they have become if they 

569
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,600
wouldn't be an editor. 
But in your case, I would say 

570
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,520
after now you edit your first 
feature film and then you went 

571
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,200
to the Oscar. 
I I want to ask you if you feel 

572
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:55,120
like your career took a turn 
after that event or after the 

573
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,520
movie. 
But more important, I want to 

574
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,680
ask if you want to be an editor 
now, if you want to work only as

575
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:04,800
an editor, you want to edit. 
And if you got any any requests 

576
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,080
already or any job software or 
whatever. 

577
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:13,600
Yeah, I'm, I'm not super happy 
at the moment about like it's a 

578
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:19,600
bit overwhelming and I so I get 
some requests and I have a lot 

579
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,960
of like what if or something 
like, oh shit, I need to grab 

580
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,120
this momentum and is this the 
right choice or something? 

581
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,600
Or will I say yes to the wrong 
film and then not be able to do 

582
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,080
this other film that's better 
that's I haven't heard of 

583
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,440
because they need to contact me 
in the future or something. 

584
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:41,720
And I know with my heads, I know
the answer and it's just see 

585
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:43,200
what happens and go with the 
flow. 

586
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,360
And I don't need to be stressed 
about saying yes to the wrong 

587
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,280
film because it's also a super 
interesting experience, a bad 

588
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,440
one or but also it's just life 
happening. 

589
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:59,560
And I'm really happy to discover
that I really love my job, but 

590
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,320
it's also a job I love. 
Life next to editing. 

591
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,120
Let's say while when I'm in the 
editing room, do my job super 

592
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:13,680
hard, but also think like to do 
this job so well that it's 

593
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,800
important to have a healthy life
next to it. 

594
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,840
I think I get most job offerings
because of the subject matter, 

595
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:26,680
but I really hope to get 
typecast or ask for formal 

596
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:33,760
innovation to work on film sets 
are cinematic experiences or 

597
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,920
something and really look at 
documentary or fiction, it 

598
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,240
doesn't matter as a like a 
cinematic experience that an 

599
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:45,120
audience goes through. 
So I hope to be asked of that. 

600
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:50,560
But of course at the same time I
am like I cannot control what 

601
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,520
jobs that I get offered. 
So I just need to chill a bit 

602
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,640
and say but maybe you guys also 
have like feedback for me on how

603
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,400
do you approach this or but. 
It's a matter of, you know, if 

604
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,240
lack of being no, it's always 
even if you make the right 

605
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:10,000
choices, then you know, maybe 
the next time you are in the 

606
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,360
wrong place or no. 
So it's just a matter of how the

607
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,720
world turns, I think. 
This, yeah, yeah. 

608
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:22,200
But I, I love this idea, like 
this healthy curiosity about 

609
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,480
where life brings you or 
something. 

610
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,640
And in a way, it's also this 
mentality that you have as an 

611
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,840
editor to approach life with 
this. 

612
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,320
Like when I as an editor, I, I, 
I get an hard drive where 

613
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,160
there's footage on top of it. 
I don't think like, it would be 

614
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,320
great if we had this other 
footage. 

615
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,800
Too bad that they did film it 
like this and not like this. 

616
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,960
You just see it as this and see 
like, how can I make the best of

617
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,240
what I have here or something in
like this mindsets I want to 

618
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,160
approach to my life. 
It's more like curious to what 

619
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,720
will present itself to you and 
how can I make the best out of 

620
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:04,600
this? 
Editor Synonymous is a podcast 

621
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,760
by Pier Paolo, Filomeno, Beppe 
Lonetti and Anna Savchenko. 

622
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,760
Music by is a KOKIAF. 
If you enjoy the podcast and 

623
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,640
want to stay in the loop, follow
us on Spotify, Instagram or 

624
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,600
Facebook. 
Thanks for listening and see you

625
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:21,200
next time.