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The other brother, Eddie, 
testing a patriarch, a pillar of

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the community. 
Absolutely. 

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So today's going to be a special
one. 

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We got 2 special guests today 
because Colby's not a special 

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guest anymore. 
Just a regular guest. 

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This one's a special one because
just, I'm going to speak for the

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rest of us here. 
You 2 have both been a major 

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role model factor for us. 
I know Mac, you've only got 2 

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biological kid or sons, but I 
feel like you've got 5 after 

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everything that's going on. 
And Pop, you've been a, you've 

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been in a wonderful elder for 
all of us growing up. 

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I want you to know that we've, 
we've looked up to you, 

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especially me, ever since I've 
met you. 

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To be honest, I always look 
forward to seeing you in church.

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So it's really nice to be able 
to sit down and talk to you and 

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and get to learn a little bit 
more about you. 

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So with that, we'll go ahead and
get right on into it. 

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OK. 
I'd kind of like to start off 

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with kind of give you an 
introduction. 

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That's perfect. 
OK. 

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My mom and dad, they were both 
from South Georgia, Coffee 

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County. 
My dad and my grandfather on my 

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mother's side, they were 
sharecroppers. 

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They, they did crops for the 
large landowner in Coffee 

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County. 
Well, Daddy and a friend of his,

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RC Cheryl, they got to study in 
the book of Acts. 

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And Daddy, Daddy was raised 
Methodist and my mother was 

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Baptist. 
And how they got together, I 

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don't know, but they got 
together and got married and Dad

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was 19 and mom was 15. 
But when brother Cheryl and Dad,

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they went, they got together and
started studying the book of 

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Acts and they begin to ask the 
Methodist elders how come they 

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wasn't preaching the same 
message that the apostles preach

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in the book of Acts about the 
Holy Ghost. 

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And they kept telling him say, 
well, rest my dad was called 

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Wesley said Wesley, that was 
just for the apostles in that 

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day. 
It's not for the church today. 

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It's that's that was back those 
days. 

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But Daddy said, well, that's not
what the Scripture said. 

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He said the Scripture says it's 
to everybody that believes they 

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can have the Holy Ghost. 
And we don't understand why 

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you're not preaching the Holy 
Ghost. 

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Well, he said, well, we just 
don't, we just don't believe 

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it's for the church today. 
It's it's just a thing in the 

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past where daddy and brother 
Cheryl kept studying it and got 

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more depth to it. 
And they begin to talk to other 

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people in the Methodist Church. 
And the elders finally called 

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them in and said now men if 
y'all going to keep talking 

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about this Holy Ghost thing that
we don't teach anymore, y'all 

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need to find another church. 
So they started from there they 

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started going to the Methodist 
Church and that's they did 

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receive the Holy Ghost. 
Now they didn't have the full 

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knowledge of the oneness of God 
and the baptism of Jesus name, 

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but they did teach baptism Holy 
Ghost speaking in other tongues 

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that if you did to get the Holy 
Ghost you will speak in tongues.

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So daddy began to seek for the 
Holy Ghost in the Methodist 

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Church. 
Well, he would like I said he 

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was a sharecropper. 
He was plowing the field of corn

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one day and it was about 
noontime. 

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And Daddy said, now, Lord, if 
the Holy Ghost is for me, I want

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it. 
I really want the Holy Ghost if 

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it's for me. 
And all of a sudden, Daddy said 

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there was such a bright light. 
They said it was brighter than 

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the sun. 
And he said, he just, I just 

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stopped everything I was doing 
and all of a sudden I was 

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carried out of it. 
He said, I don't know what 

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happened, but I, he said I just 
carried out of it. 

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And he began to speak in tongues
as the spirit gave of the 

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utterance. 
And so they're in the cornfield.

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He was plowing with the yoke of 
oxen. 

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And when he came to, he said the
oxen had moved out of their 

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tracks. 
They were where they were when 

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he went into this experience 
with God. 

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But he received the Holy Ghost 
plowing in the field of corn. 

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So he went back and began to 
testify to the Baptist Church 

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what God did for him. 
So Daddy really began to study. 

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Then he began to feel the 
calling into the ministry 

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sometime later. 
So in 1932, he got a letter from

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a man from me that he never 
knew, but it came from Apopka, 

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FL and this letter asked Dad to 
come. 

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They deeded a minister because 
they wanted to start a church in

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Apopka. 
They were having cottage spur 

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meeting and in the meantime, but
the shurel had gone to South 

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Carolina and while he's in South
Carolina, he ran across some 

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Oneness people and they begin to
tell him about the Jesus name 

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baptism and the oneness of God. 
Well, when he come back, he told

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daddy about it and that then 
they begin to dig into the 

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scriptures and they saw where 
this was what what was the 

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apostles preached. 
So here they go. 

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They go back to the Church of 
God now and because I asked them

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said why aren't we baptizing in 
Jesus name? 

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Why aren't we teaching the 
oneness of God? 

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Y'all teach the three 
manifestation of three persons, 

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but there's three 
manifestations, not three 

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persons. 
God the Father, God the Son, God

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the Holy Ghost. 
That's three manifestations of 

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the one God and it's not. 
So anyway, they begin to talk 

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this about in the Church of God.
So the Church of God did the 

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same thing. 
The Methodist folks, they said 

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that y'all need to find, you 
know, the church to go to God. 

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We don't believe that. 
So Daddy and brother, sure they 

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started a cottage prayer 
meeting. 

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So but anyway, during the 
cottage prayer meeting, there's 

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a church sprung from that. 
But this man wrote Daddy if I'm 

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Apopka and asked him to come to 
Apopka to start the church and I

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so he didn't know anything about
him though. 

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But he said now when you get to 
Apopka, go to the post office 

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and ask General Mel and your 
name would be the letter. 

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Be there in your name and get 
that letter and they'll give you

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some money to help you get set 
up. 

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So that's how my mom and dad got
to Apopka and he started the 

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church in Apopka in 1932. 
Well, in 1939, my twin brother 

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and I was born in Apopka. 
So that's how, that's how I 

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ended up in Apopka so far. 
So I've been raised in the 

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Pentecostal truth for all my 
life. 

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But anyway, Daddy, we, we were 
in Apopka for about, I don't 

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remember, but we moved from 
Apopka to Milton and I was 

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baptized at Milton when I was 12
years old. 

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But I didn't get the Holy Ghost 
because really I knew in my 

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heart that if I ever got the 
Holy Ghost, I was going to have 

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to preach. 
And I didn't want to preach. 

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I really didn't. 
I, I seen so much that my dad 

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had gone through struggling 
being a pastor and being a 

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minister and trying to take, I 
didn't want that lifestyle. 

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I, I, I said so I, I backed 
away. 

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I I I didn't. 
I like I say, I was baptized, 

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but I backed away and I didn't 
see God again. 

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What was it like whenever having
a a minister in in that time? 

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Like being the son of a 
minister? 

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I know that now. 
I know my experience being a 

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pastor son now, but it might is 
probably harder even. 

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It was real hard because really 
bad in those days. 

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People didn't trust, especially 
Pentecostal churches and people.

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You couldn't go and get a loan 
to build a church. 

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You had a bill as you raised 
money. 

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And I remember the church in 
Apopka being built. 

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It was on the old Orlando and 
Apopka Highway. 

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And you turn off, it went up a 
little dirt, the hill and we sit

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right in the corner. 
And the church kind of had a 

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00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,480
rounded front and where you 
entered. 

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But I remember the church, we 
had a we had no electricity. 

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We had oil lamps with reflectors
behind them to give us light, No

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piano. 
All we had was an old drum. 

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And my dad strummed a guitar and
he wasn't a real good guitar, 

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00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,360
but he did strum a guitar. 
And but it was rough in those 

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days. 
And a minister had to work and 

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there wasn't all that many good 
jobs. 

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00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,680
In fact, my dad worked at the 
packing house building orange 

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00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:10,880
crates for the Packers to 
because Orlando and Apopka was 

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00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,960
known for the orange Groves and 
and everything. 

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00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,640
So daddy dad was able to get a 
job at the packing house to 

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build out, but it was rough. 
And I guess, Cam, I guess that's

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one reason I didn't want to go 
into the ministry. 

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Do you think do you think your 
father's influence change the 

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way that you viewed ministry 
whenever you later became that? 

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00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,120
Do you think he was a big 
influence on how you viewed what

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a minister means to be? 
After I, after I got to the 

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point that I wanted to, that I 
realized I wanted to live for 

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God and serve God and, and one 
of the Holy Ghost. 

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I realized it, that my dad had 
been faithful and that he had 

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really set a good example for me
as forwards doing the work of 

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God. 
Even though he had a struggle, 

163
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:06,680
he never backed away from it. 
And Cam and Johnny and Kobe and 

164
00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:10,360
Mac. 
I think my dad's ministry was, 

165
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,600
it seemed like everywhere we 
went, it was a church that had 

166
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,000
been in trouble. 
And it seemed like God used my 

167
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,400
daddy as a somebody come and see
if he could get things turned 

168
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,160
around and get things 
reestablished. 

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00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,560
Like I said, when we went to 
Milton, I was in the third grade

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when we went to Milton and that 
church had really gone through. 

171
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The minister had messed up the 
churches in scrambles. 

172
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I mean, it just almost all the 
congregation almost left. 

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00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,360
And that was my daddy's 
ministry. 

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00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,920
It's kind of reestablishing. 
And we did real well at Milton. 

175
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:52,880
And then we went from Milton to 
Bessemer, AL and was at Bessemer

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00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,520
for a while and then we came 
back to Milton and Dad. 

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00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:01,120
That's when Daddy was called to 
Gainesville and Daddy went to 

178
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:07,080
Gainesville in 1957, I believe. 
And my brother and I, we didn't 

179
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:11,000
go to Gainesville with Daddy at 
first because we wanted to 

180
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:15,000
finish our school year out at 
Milton was in 11th grade. 

181
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:20,000
We wanted to finish that grade 
out and so we finished out. 

182
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:26,680
Then we went there in 58 to 
finish our year in school and in

183
00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:32,600
1959, that's the year I received
the Baptist and the Holy Ghost. 

184
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:39,720
I was but the way I received the
Holy Ghost monk and I we was we 

185
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:45,000
had met some folks and young 
people from Okella and we 

186
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,000
happened to go over and see our 
friend that night to was going 

187
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,960
to go to see actually was 
partying. 

188
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,120
You know, just so with other 
with other young people from 

189
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,960
Okella that we knew was let. 
Me, let me interject something 

190
00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:02,800
real quick just to make sure 
everybody that's listening to 

191
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:08,560
the podcast understand. 
And that day partying didn't 

192
00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:11,160
include any alcohol, didn't 
include any drugs, didn't 

193
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,760
include any kind of smoking, 
anything like that. 

194
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,400
It was just getting together, 
hanging out, maybe building a 

195
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,840
fire on the riverbank, Creek 
bank or something like that. 

196
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,720
Just just having a good time, 
you know, different kind of 

197
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,400
partying and what we're used to.
I was like, wow, Pop, come on. 

198
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,840
I've told, I've told my boys, 
well, like when we lived at 

199
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:38,720
Milton, when we lived at Milton,
my brother's girlfriend, dad had

200
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,920
a, they had a cabin on the Bay 
and he had a launch that we used

201
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,680
to go out on the islands with. 
We'd go out on the islands, a 

202
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:50,080
bit of butter, but I could tell.
I've told my boys. 

203
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,960
Sex was never involved. 
Drinking was never involved. 

204
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,760
Smoking was never we'd even know
what anything about dope. 

205
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,440
We just got together and had a 
good time. 

206
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,560
Somebody would bring the hot dog
bun, somebody would bring the 

207
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:06,600
wieners and somebody bring the 
drink and we just get together 

208
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,480
had a good time. 
It's like Mike said. 

209
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,240
But anyway, we we called our 
friend in Ocala and said we 

210
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,920
going to come over and go with 
you. 

211
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:19,560
But it happened to be the same 
weekend that they was having 

212
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:22,320
youth camp at the Ocala 
campground. 

213
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,720
And my friend live right across 
from the campground. 

214
00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:31,520
So after we come back from our 
party, drop him off, they were 

215
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,480
still, the young people were 
still having the youth camp. 

216
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,480
But in fact, he's having the off
to call. 

217
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,600
And so I told Monk, I said, 
let's let's go up there and see 

218
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,920
what's going on because we had 
some young people from 

219
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,840
Gainesville there. 
So I said, let's go and see what

220
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,760
our young people's doing and 
then see what's going on. 

221
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,160
So we walked in at the 
Tabernacle, and I mean, those 

222
00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,800
young people were up there 
rejoice in having a great time 

223
00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,800
in the Lord. 
And just, I mean, I've never 

224
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,120
seen such expression of joy in 
my whole life. 

225
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,440
And I looked at my brother. 
We called him Monk. 

226
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,800
I said monk. 
That's what we've been looking 

227
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,680
for. 
I said all this time we running 

228
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,440
here, running there, getting 
with this group, that group. 

229
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:19,360
But I said what they've got 
there is what we're looking for.

230
00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,000
And I told him, I said I'm going
to go home. 

231
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,880
When I get home, I'm going to 
get the Holy Ghost. 

232
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,400
And those three weeks later, I 
received the baptism the Holy 

233
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,240
Ghost at home in Gainesville. 
How old were you at that time? 

234
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,000
How old were you? 
I was 19. 

235
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:40,960
I was 19 when I received the 
Holy Ghost and but they said I 

236
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,560
wiped the floor out. 
God. 

237
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,320
God took a lot of pride out of 
me, I guess. 

238
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,680
I guess I had a lot of pride in 
stuff, but they said I just 

239
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,600
wiped that whole front row out. 
I rode from one side of the 

240
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,120
church to the other. 
But I really got me a good 

241
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,840
experience. 
Then God. 

242
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:07,040
God renewed the calling that I 
felt at age of 12, and I begin 

243
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,640
to talk to my dad about it 
because I asked my dad. 

244
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,720
I said, now dad, before I get 
involved with this, I want to 

245
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:20,520
ask you a question. 
How do you know that we're in 

246
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,600
the truth and these other folks 
are not in the truth? 

247
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,280
He says, son, I'm just going to 
tell you what you need to do. 

248
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,120
He said you need to go and 
investigate. 

249
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,120
He said, visit these other 
churches and listen to what 

250
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,440
they're preaching and see if 
there's preaching from the word 

251
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,440
of God or preaching from their 
opinions of what they think. 

252
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,880
He said compared what they're 
what you're hearing to what 

253
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,480
you're reading. 
And he said if it's not what 

254
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,720
you're reading in the word of 
God, then you need to realize 

255
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,280
that's not what you need. 
So that's what I begin because I

256
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:58,560
felt the calling, but I wanted 
to make sure that my calling was

257
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,600
real and I, that I was in the 
truth. 

258
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,920
Even though my dad had raised me
the truth, you know, they were 

259
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,760
still some of those, you know, 
'cause I've seen a lot of good 

260
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,720
people that, that, you know, you
know, in, you know, where I'll 

261
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,600
be getting, investigating to 
realize that we were teaching 

262
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,480
the truth and all. 
It's pretty important not to cut

263
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:17,800
you off. 
It's, it's pretty important, I 

264
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,320
would say, for people to be able
to do that investigation on 

265
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,920
their own. 
A lot of people just, they'll 

266
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,400
even say, oh, I just blindly 
follow just 'cause that's what 

267
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,800
I've always been taught. 
I think it's pretty powerful to 

268
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,560
say, hey, no, I I researched it 
myself and my dad didn't force 

269
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,080
me to do this. 
He told me to because he was so 

270
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,880
confident that he knew you would
find it. 

271
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,480
Johnny, that's exactly what my 
dad said. 

272
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,960
My dad told me, he says, son, I 
don't want you believe this 

273
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,800
because that's what I've raised 
you to believe. 

274
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:51,880
He said, I want you to know 
within your own heart that and 

275
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,840
actually what dad says, He said,
now son, what you need, He said 

276
00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,360
you need a revelation to the 
oneness of God in the I had no 

277
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,040
problem with Jesus name baptism.
I had no, because the oneness of

278
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,880
God, you know, because there are
two places that it would leave 

279
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,800
the impression that there were 
more than just one God, because 

280
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,440
this was talking to this one. 
This one's talking to that one, 

281
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,400
you know, but he said you need 
to ask God to give you a 

282
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,640
revelation of the oneness of 
God. 

283
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:24,280
So that's when he told me, He 
said you need to go and just 

284
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,680
begin to investigate and see 
what you find out. 

285
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,560
And I didn't let me say this. 
Now, when I begin to seek it, 

286
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:35,280
God did give me a revelation of 
the Oneness of God. 

287
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:40,480
And it seemed like it was just a
veil that just opened up and it 

288
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,640
became so clear. 
It's like you say, Johnny, it 

289
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:49,360
was because my dad gave me the 
freedom to find out for myself 

290
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,560
that what what we believe is 
what we taught. 

291
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,440
No, I, I was just saying that 
says a lot about your dad too 

292
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,000
and about the bringing up. 
And I think that's a lot that 

293
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,960
ties to your family heritage 
now. 

294
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,280
You know, I mean, you're four 
generation, 5 generations in 

295
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,920
from his time. 
And I, I think similar with my 

296
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,680
dad, you know, I mean, you got 
to find it for yourself. 

297
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,600
And that just touched me a whole
lot because that, that's really 

298
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,160
it. 
You can believe off of what 

299
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,400
someone tells you all you want, 
but until you find it for 

300
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:17,760
yourself, it really doesn't 
matter. 

301
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:22,040
You know it's not yours, but you
took it and that's that's your 

302
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,320
your finding and revelation of 
God's Word. 

303
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,280
Yeah, well, see, Kobe, Really. 
Now, that's one thing that 

304
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:34,720
worries me about our churches 
today, because I'm so afraid 

305
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:39,440
that a lot of our young people 
are be are Pentecostal because 

306
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,480
they're raised in Pentecost, 
just like Baptist kids are 

307
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,640
Baptist because they're raised 
Baptist. 

308
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,440
And I worry because I wonder if 
they really are getting the 

309
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,320
revelation that they really 
need. 

310
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:56,160
So when they have to stand on 
their own foundation, is their 

311
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,160
foundation going to be so sure 
that they're not going to 

312
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,400
crumble? 
You know, And he, he kind of 

313
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:03,320
worries me. 
That's the reason I won't see 

314
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,200
our church real strong in 
doctrine and teaching. 

315
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,880
So our young people have more 
than just a that's what my mom 

316
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,280
and dad. 
No, that's what I've learned 

317
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,040
from the Word of God. 
Well, I think, I think every, 

318
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,320
and we're doing the work I've 
done with people in that 

319
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,640
18/19/2021 year old range. 
I think everybody reaches a 

320
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,200
point in their life where 
they've got to determine this is

321
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:26,680
my faith. 
You know what I mean? 

322
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,280
And I, but I, I think the 
confidence that we have and your

323
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,720
father had that any search for 
truth is going to take you right

324
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,800
back here, right? 
The unction of the Holy Ghost is

325
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,600
going to lead you to this. 
So we have no problem with 

326
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,760
people looking because we know 
what they'll find. 

327
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:40,800
That's what. 
That's what. 

328
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,560
There of mine said too in 
chapter 29, if you search you're

329
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,240
going to find it and I think 
it's that confidence in God. 

330
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,840
Well, not only that the Bible 
said the Spirit once you receive

331
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,480
the Spirit, the Spirit would 
lead and guide you into all 

332
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,800
truth. 
And if we would leave, let that 

333
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,280
the Spirit control us and 
through and our conscience, it 

334
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,520
would, it would show us what we 
need to do and what we don't 

335
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:07,760
need to do. 
And you know, because. 

336
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:09,520
What? 
That's what Jesus said. 

337
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,560
I'm going, I'm going to leave 
you something. 

338
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,480
I'm going back to heaven, but 
I'm not going to leave you 

339
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,320
without. 
I'm sending back the comforter 

340
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,360
and the comforter is going to 
lead and guide you into the ways

341
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:26,560
that I want you to go. 
So you follow that spirit and 

342
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,440
that's why we need a spirit to 
feel as church and a spirit 

343
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,080
strong church. 
So people when they come in, 

344
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:37,040
they can feel that spirit and 
that spirit would draw them into

345
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,720
the knowledge of the truth. 
And and so that's, that's how I 

346
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,920
got started. 
I, I, I acknowledge that God 

347
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,000
called me to preach and I talked
to my dad. 

348
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,320
I begin to do a lot of studying 
them own and praying and I felt 

349
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,480
the call into the I went to 
Bible school for two years, but 

350
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,160
then I started evangelizing. 
Well, evangelize the first year 

351
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,320
a little bit with the trio. 
It's trio and I, I sang in the 

352
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,760
men's trio and we travelled that
summer after my first year of 

353
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:11,920
Bible college and evangelized 
Carl Vernell and Dale Sullivan 

354
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,520
and myself and Harold Barber. 
They were the four of us that we

355
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,800
travelled and then the second 
year went back to college. 

356
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,880
But I don't know, I just didn't.
I didn't feel like I was where I

357
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,600
needed to be. 
So I after my second year of 

358
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,120
Bible college, I went into full 
time evangelistic where I was 

359
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:35,080
still single at that time and I 
traveled for two years 

360
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,080
evangelizing. 
I went to several different 

361
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,800
states. 
So I went all the way up to 

362
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:45,040
Iowa, out to Ohio in a different
place, and I really enjoyed the 

363
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,040
evangelistic work. 
What time when you when you felt

364
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,360
that call to preach, what is 
just? 

365
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,920
What does that feel like? 
What is that impression that you

366
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,240
have that makes you decide it's 
preaching? 

367
00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,680
That is my calling. 
Well, the way I felt, Johnny, is

368
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,040
that I just couldn't get it off 
my, I mean, it just stayed on my

369
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:09,080
mind constantly that I wasn't 
doing what God, you know, I was 

370
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,040
in church with my dad, working 
in church with my dad, but I 

371
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,240
didn't feel like I was 
fulfilling what God really 

372
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,280
wanted me to do. 
There is still an emptiness 

373
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:23,920
there because in, in my heart 
and mind I knew what God wanted 

374
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:31,520
me to do and it was, it is kind 
of hard to explain how that 

375
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,960
feeling is. 
It's just something that you 

376
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:40,880
can't get away from and let. 
Me, I think this will be a good 

377
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,400
time for me to interject 
something OK, from from my 

378
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,080
memory of you sharing your 
testimony with me. 

379
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,560
So you know, similarly, you 
know, I've asked that question 

380
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,440
as well. 
How did you know? 

381
00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:04,040
And from what what Pop told me 
before is it was OK getting up 

382
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:12,160
singing, but he had a terrible 
fear of not sounding like he 

383
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,800
knew what he was talking about 
to get up in front of people and

384
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,800
talk. 
He didn't like getting up in 

385
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,040
front of people and talking. 
And when he first started 

386
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:27,120
preaching, no one ever could 
have known that because that was

387
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:31,400
a, if I remember correctly, that
was a time that, you know, after

388
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,720
he preached his first time, he 
knew beyond any shadow of a 

389
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,000
doubt, And so did everybody that
knew him very well, that it was 

390
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,920
the anointing because he 
wouldn't have been able to do 

391
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,120
that on his own. 
So I remember that very 

392
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:45,520
distinctly. 
Yes, Sir. 

393
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,040
No, I was very shy. 
I didn't. 

394
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,640
I really. 
I had a fear I didn't like, Mike

395
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:57,000
said. 
I had no problem singing with my

396
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:03,120
group, with my guys and all, but
when we, when we 3 evangelized, 

397
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,880
I let the other two do most of 
the preaching. 

398
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,760
I kind of stayed in the 
background. 

399
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:14,880
In fact, now Carl Varnell, he 
became well known in the UPC and

400
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,640
actually he worked out of Saint 
Louis for a while. 

401
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,400
And because he now var was Carl 
Varnell, was one of the best 

402
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,840
preachers, a young preachers 
that I'd ever heard. 

403
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:33,400
I mean, he was a great minister.
But anyway, in 1960, I came back

404
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,440
to Gainesville after I 
evangelized for a couple years 

405
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,480
and then just kind of real rest 
and kind of get myself back 

406
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,400
together. 
And Carol and I, Carol before we

407
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,920
whenever married, Carol and I 
still work together when I was 

408
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,760
around home, I'd, if I went to a
church locally or something, 

409
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,080
she'd go with me and play the 
piano for me, you know. 

410
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,680
So we, we had learned to kind of
work together said. 

411
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,480
But when I come back home and 
got back into that's when Carol 

412
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:09,720
and I got to going together and 
I asked to marry 19501963 That's

413
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:15,280
when we got married and then the
church in Apopka was needing a 

414
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,680
pastor. 
Now this is the church that my 

415
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,800
daddy started in 1932. 
They needed a pastor. 

416
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,920
They sober the canal called and 
asked me if I'd be interested in

417
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,040
coming to Apopka and see if they
so Carolina pastors in Apopka 

418
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,800
for but just a very few months 
we didn't. 

419
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,520
Now God blessed us and our 
church really grew. 

420
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,160
We had, in fact, we had one of 
the best young group of young 

421
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,080
people that in that time at that
church. 

422
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,840
But I knew I wasn't doing what 
God had called me to do. 

423
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,040
God had called me to evangelize.
We, we lived to popcorn. 

424
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,960
And by the time now Becky was 
born too, we had Becky. 

425
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,400
So after Becky was born, we went
back to Gainesville and I told 

426
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,040
mom and dad we was going to 
evangelize. 

427
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,280
Mom thought I was crazy. 
She said, what are you talking 

428
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,480
about? 
You evangelizing? 

429
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,040
You just got a newborn baby and 
you going to take off and go 

430
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,640
and, and she's I said, mom, 
that's my calling. 

431
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,920
I feel like God has called us to
evangelize. 

432
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,280
So Becky was, I think Becky was,
but 03 months or 4, maybe six 

433
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,120
months old. 
She wasn't very old at all. 

434
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,440
So we had an O 55 Chrysler, 
Windsor Chrysler. 

435
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:37,520
That's when the air condition 
came out of the trunk and we 

436
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,120
bought the car seat and we put 
the car seat back there. 

437
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,680
It's so big. 
You have a place to sleep and 

438
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,760
ride. 
And I was getting everything 

439
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,040
ready to vangelize and mom just 
kept telling me, Are you sure? 

440
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,360
Are you sure? 
You crazy? 

441
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,880
Did he didn't have a revival 
schedule? 

442
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,400
Nowhere. 
Oh, he just, but I just felt. 

443
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,040
So I called a friend of mine, 
brother Childress. 

444
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,240
He's a full time evangelist and 
he and I had worked with brother

445
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,080
Childress on the evangelistic 
field. 

446
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,240
When I was evangelizing, when I 
was out without a revival, I 

447
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,840
would go where brother sis 
chillers was and I'd work with 

448
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,000
the young people. 
We'd come up with youth choirs 

449
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,840
and stuff. 
So I knew brother and sis 

450
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,680
children well. 
So I called him. 

451
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,720
I said, brother Chillers, I feel
like I need to, I'm, I'm going 

452
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,440
to evangelized and I said I 
wanted to know if you could 

453
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,880
maybe give me a revival schedule
up to whatever he's well, I'm up

454
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,760
here in Indiana. 
I said, I don't care where God 

455
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,920
wants me to go. 
I just, if you see if you can 

456
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:39,160
get me a revive somewhere. 
So he said, well, come on up, 

457
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:44,000
I'll see what I can do now. 
We left Florida, no revival 

458
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,440
schedule, didn't know whether 
it's going to have a revive. 

459
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,360
All the money we had in our 
pocket is what we had in our 

460
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:53,640
pocket. 
We had no bank account, didn't 

461
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:59,240
have a savings account. 
We could just bear in a sense. 

462
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,840
Anyway, we decided to go. 
So he was in Richmond, IN. 

463
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,640
Now Richmond, IN is on the 
extreme east side of Indiana, 

464
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,080
right on the border of Ohio. 
So we got up to Richmond, IN. 

465
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,400
He said brother. 
He said Brother Eddie, he said 

466
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,720
all I could do is find you a 
weekend service in Hobart, IN. 

467
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,880
Here we are all the way on the 
east side of Indiana. 

468
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,200
Hobart is on the extreme West 
side of Indiana, right next to 

469
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,520
Illinois. 
I mean, it's right on the 

470
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,840
border. 
He said they promise you a 

471
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,840
weekend service. 
So that was with Brother Barley 

472
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,800
in Hobart, IN. 
So here we go not knowing, you 

473
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,920
know, and we get there now he is
in the home missionary church. 

474
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,880
He's in the basement. 
That's all they've got built so 

475
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,320
far is just a base. 
But they don't have the other 

476
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,200
part. 
This winter time snow, you know,

477
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,360
it hadn't snowed yet, but it's 
winter time. 

478
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,240
So here we are in the home 
missionary church. 

479
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,960
Don't know how they get if they 
going to be able to support us 

480
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,040
or not. 
And that's anyway they put us up

481
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,560
in their home. 
So we preached for him that 

482
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,520
weekend. 
And that weekend turned out to 

483
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,880
be 3 weeks. 
We was there for three weeks. 

484
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,080
And God, I mean God really 
blessed and gave us the revival.

485
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,280
And in that revival, we had 
other churches come in to visit 

486
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:28,040
with us while we evangelize and 
and we filled up a schedule to 

487
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,720
carry us through the whole year 
from that one revival. 

488
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,680
That's how God works when you 
end the calling of God. 

489
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,560
Well, yeah, so, so many people 
would look at that and say I'm 

490
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,400
I'm not going to a whole 
missions church to to preach in 

491
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,840
a basement to that's. 
Quite a leap of faith. 

492
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,320
But it shows what God can do, 
right? 

493
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,440
They just did what was available
to you and that's. 

494
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:51,960
It that's I'm saying that's how 
God. 

495
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,000
But that's another thing I'd say
in those days when when a church

496
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,920
had a revival, whether you was a
home or or a well established 

497
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:02,360
church, they supported each 
other. 

498
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,000
I mean, they would reason there 
were several churches in that 

499
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,480
area and that's they would come 
and support you. 

500
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,360
And also if you was an 
evangelist. 

501
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,480
And if there's a, that's when 
they used to have fellowship 

502
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,040
meetings and youth rally, they'd
have a fellowship meeting one, 

503
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,720
one month and the next month 
they'd have a youth rally. 

504
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,720
Now, if you was an evangelist in
that area, you would preach that

505
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,880
fellowship meeting, all that 
youth service because they 

506
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,720
wanted to get you exposed to the
other churches in the, in the 

507
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,960
area. 
So they really helped an 

508
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,400
evangelist at that time. 
But we stayed. 

509
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:43,400
We stayed busy for actually we 
evangelized for five years. 

510
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,360
So do you think there was a real
sense of unity amongst like the 

511
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,920
churches of that time, the way 
that they were trying to support

512
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,080
and even just even with the 
evangelist, do you think that 

513
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:57,000
was like AI? 
Find I found it up north more so

514
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,280
than I did in the South. 
It seemed like the South didn't 

515
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,840
have that unity of coming 
together as well as the churches

516
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,640
up north. 
Up north, it seemed like they 

517
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,520
had it looked like they looked 
for the opportunity to get 

518
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,400
together and and have fellowship
together. 

519
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,640
So I found it was seemed like it
was more so up north than it was

520
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,200
in the South. 
But I remember this one thing. 

521
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,840
Like I said, Carol was from the 
South. 

522
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,320
She had never been out of the 
state of Florida except when she

523
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,320
went to Bible school for one 
year. 

524
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,760
That's the first time she'd have
been out of the state of 

525
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,800
Florida. 
But of course we was in obit 

526
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,680
Indiana winter time. 
She got up 1 morning before any 

527
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,080
but she's an early ride. 
She got up before anybody else 

528
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,280
and over it, it snowed 
overnight. 

529
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,600
I mean it everything was covered
up. 

530
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,520
I mean they and she went out and
looked at the wind and she let 

531
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,840
out a big scrape. 
Hey, it snowed. 

532
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:02,440
You know, sister Barley got up 
and said Sister Carol, it always

533
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:08,960
snows up here in the wind. 
So but anyway, we evangelized 

534
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,120
for that for five years and then
Becky settled. 

535
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,400
We had to settle down because 
Becky and we actually our first 

536
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,400
pastor, the church the way we 
passed was to lock 40 Illinois 

537
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,040
and we that was one of the first
church that we held revival in a

538
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,480
lot of times the church that we 
had revive. 

539
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,960
We we repeat, we go back almost 
every year to those same 

540
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,640
churches. 
So when when Brother Farley, he 

541
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,840
felt his called in to go to the 
New York area to start a church,

542
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,160
he called me and said, I hear 
you getting ready to settle 

543
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,480
down. 
I said, yeah, I've got to get 

544
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,480
Becky in school. 
So he said, well, I'm getting 

545
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,240
ready to go to New York. 
We're going to need a pastor in 

546
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,800
Lockport. 
And they wanted me to call you, 

547
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,520
see if you had come to Lockport.
So that's where that's how we 

548
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,480
ended up in Port Lockport for 
her first church and God blessed

549
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,960
us there. 
And then we went from there to 

550
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,760
Aurora. 
That worked with brother Billy 

551
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,440
Lewis in the church in Aurora. 
And but then if they think 

552
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,200
that's that's how come they just
got started. 

553
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,800
So you mentioned up north, 
they're a little bit more 

554
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,440
fellowship like, like they, they
wanted to get together. 

555
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,400
That's one thing that I remember
from being a kid in Saint Louis.

556
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:27,080
It was like every, every, every 
Sunday, every Wednesday. 

557
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,040
It was after church. 
It was like tradition. 

558
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,160
You went out to eat, you hung 
out with somebody. 

559
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,800
Dad used to tell me that 
basically every Friday night, 

560
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,880
every Saturday night, there was 
there was a group together. 

561
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:38,880
A lot of times would be the 
youth and that I don't think it 

562
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,600
was called hyphen at the time, 
but youth in that age would. 

563
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,760
They were just, they were 
consistently going out to eat. 

564
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,880
Everybody was doing stuff. 
What I mean, that seems to me to

565
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,000
be pretty valuable when it comes
to a church getting more closer 

566
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,320
together. 
Well, Johnny, this what Carol, I

567
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,120
haven't, we haven't understood 
because that's what we had up 

568
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:02,200
there, just like in a roar. 
We had a group of young couples 

569
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,760
about our age, you know, and 
every weekend we was going out 

570
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,239
on the weekend and do the we 
lived in the Chicago area. 

571
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,320
So we'd go to Chicago and go out
to nice restaurant to eat. 

572
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,480
Then just go. 
That's when you could go to what

573
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,800
they call down, down under the 
ground Chicago. 

574
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,199
You can't do that now. 
It's too dangerous. 

575
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:29,719
But back in those days and you 
could ride the subway and you 

576
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,679
could do things. 
But it's like you said, Johnny, 

577
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,080
we was always getting together. 
If we wasn't going out, we'd get

578
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,480
together just in at different 
ones homes and just have a 

579
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,159
fellowship. 
But I don't see that among our 

580
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,639
not only in the South. 
I don't know how long how it is 

581
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:47,280
up north. 
It has been so long since I've 

582
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,480
been up north, but I don't see 
that among our churches anymore.

583
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,480
We don't. 
They don't seem to get together 

584
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,800
anymore. 
Even when we were growing up. 

585
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:57,560
Sorry, cutting you off there. 
I had to get the first word in. 

586
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,800
Even when we were growing up. 
I feel like we did that more. 

587
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,680
I mean, every Wednesday we was 
going to IHOP or Waffle House, 

588
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,920
whatever, you know, and I, I do 
feel that like it's technology 

589
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,400
has advanced some. 
We do more correspondence, you 

590
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,920
know, on texting or whatever 
with the kids and we don't have 

591
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,440
that. 
And I, I think that is something

592
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,120
we really need to make a 
concerted effort to get back. 

593
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,840
You know, that unity, that face 
to face 'cause that matters 

594
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,240
more. 
I think so. 

595
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,720
Yeah. 
I know we had that's what we 

596
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:29,040
used to do up there. 
You know, we always tried to get

597
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,840
together and have fellowship and
we really enjoyed it. 

598
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,760
And we'd always we didn't find 
the all anybody that wanted to 

599
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,720
go with it. 
We didn't we didn't just have 

600
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,640
wait, this is our group and this
is your know anybody. 

601
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,440
We just let everybody know, hey,
we're going to Chicago this 

602
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,040
weekend. 
And the Chicago head of this 

603
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:54,560
church on Sunday night at at 11 
O clock, they had their choir. 

604
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,560
Now, you never heard a choir 
like that. 

605
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,080
And the guy that play that 
organ, oh man, it was something 

606
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,560
else. 
So we're every now and then we'd

607
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,440
all get together after our 
church on Sunday night. 

608
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,800
We'd go into Chicago to the 
church. 

609
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,880
It was called the Church of 
Deliverance. 

610
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:18,000
And you go in there and listen 
to the choir, but you don't 

611
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,960
whisper and you don't talk while
you're in there because if they 

612
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,240
catch you whisper, you're 
talking. 

613
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:28,400
The usher would come out and tap
you on the head and said you're 

614
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,400
there to listen. 
You're not here to talk. 

615
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,960
But like I said, Kobe, we do 
things like that just, and we 

616
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,160
enjoyed it. 
The families enjoyed it, you 

617
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,080
know, but that's, that's been 
some good days. 

618
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:46,440
What kind of, I guess lessons 
did you learn early in your 

619
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,120
ministry, you know, through 
evangelizing and then becoming a

620
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,800
pastor, like how, how to respond
to situations? 

621
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,200
Was there anything you learned 
in that early portion of your 

622
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,120
ministry that carried with you? 
I'm going to be straight with 

623
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,440
you, OK? 
I learned to quit being 

624
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:09,280
judgmental because I evangelize 
in a lot of churches and lot of 

625
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,680
them may not have had. 
I mean they were wonders 

626
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,760
churches and UPC churches, but a
lot of them may not have been 

627
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,400
raised as strict and as and all 
as I was. 

628
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,880
But yet they have the power of 
God and the Spirit of God and 

629
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,040
people love the Lord and 
everything. 

630
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:34,680
And I learned my lesson of not 
passing judgment just because 

631
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,480
this one don't look like I look 
and this one don't act like I 

632
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,360
act, and this one don't wear 
what like our clothes like I 

633
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,680
wear. 
I learned that every man has got

634
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,680
to give an account of themselves
to God. 

635
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,600
I've got to give account to 
myself. 

636
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,560
If I'm living like I'm, if I'm 
doing what I'm supposed to do, 

637
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,600
if I'm not doing, then I'm going
to have to give an account of 

638
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,800
that. 
I learned that. 

639
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:09,440
And I also I learned that that 
people I don't know the people 

640
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,960
really loved to hear the word of
God preached. 

641
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:21,560
Not not my opinion, not your 
opinion, but preach me the word,

642
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,720
give me the word. 
And that's one thing I try to do

643
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:29,520
when I even when I pastored, I 
try to do what like your dad, 

644
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,120
your dad, how many times he 
holds that book up and says, 

645
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,920
Hey, as long as we in the word, 
it's going to keep us straight. 

646
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,760
And that's what I tried to do in
my I learned to stay in that 

647
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,280
word. 
Then I wouldn't that way I won't

648
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,080
get myself out on some limb 
that's going to break on me said

649
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:54,160
that so, but that's if we could 
just learn this really quit 

650
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,360
being quit. 
In other words, don't go to 

651
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,200
church. 
See what fault you can find, but

652
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,800
I learned you go to church to 
glorify God, lift God up and 

653
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,040
praise God. 
And I'm not here to judge my 

654
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,600
brother and sister and I, I'm 
going to be straight with you 

655
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,520
now. 
I see too much of that in our 

656
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,280
churches. 
I do. 

657
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:23,120
I see too much of that people 
trying to pass judgment because 

658
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,240
somebody's may not look just 
like I look. 

659
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:31,040
We don't know the heart. 
Not only don't we don't know the

660
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,280
heart, we don't know how God's 
working with them. 

661
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:39,680
Yeah, maybe God hasn't brought 
them into the fullness of the 

662
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,760
knowledge that you and I have 
have received. 

663
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,320
So we've got we've got to give 
people, especially new people, 

664
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:51,720
we've got to give people time to
grow and try and time to mature 

665
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:55,240
in in the gospel. 
And, you know, John's Gos, 

666
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,440
John's epistles, I should say, 
talk a lot about the conscious 

667
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,440
and how that works. 
And then I think that's it's a 

668
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,120
big thing, right? 
As we search God, we believe we 

669
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,720
don't have to pass judgment on 
somebody, right? 

670
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:07,640
God's going to lead them where 
they need to go, ultimately. 

671
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,440
Well, the Scripture says it. 
He said, you know, Jesus says 

672
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,760
the words, the word that I say 
they would judge you. 

673
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,000
He said I come not into the 
world to condemn the world, but 

674
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,320
the word that I give you, they 
the word actually Jesus, or even

675
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:32,240
on judgment, even on judgment, 
Jesus isn't going to judge you 

676
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,760
just because he's a judge. 
He's going to judge you 

677
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,880
according to his word. 
Now did you live or did you obey

678
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,880
the word? 
Now if you didn't obey the word,

679
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,480
the word is what's going to 
condemn you, just like a judge 

680
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,560
that sits on that seat. 
He doesn't pass judgment on the 

681
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,800
person because of he's being the
judge. 

682
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,560
He passes on the evidence that's
been given. 

683
00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:00,480
And if the evidence condemns 
you, then you then he's got to 

684
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,840
pass judgment. 
And that's what Jesus said. 

685
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:09,480
He says I didn't come to he. 
He come to seek and save, not to

686
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,920
condemn me. 
That's why the woman that was 

687
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,840
called an adultery. 
Now he didn't condone her act of

688
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:20,000
sin, but he said I didn't come 
to condemn her. 

689
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,040
I come to save her. 
Now if I can, if I can save her 

690
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,840
by not condemning her, then I'm 
going to do that. 

691
00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:31,560
But but when he told those guys 
now you that without seeing 

692
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,680
other words, there's where he's 
throwing the condemnation, he's 

693
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,200
throwing the condemnation of 
those that was passed into 

694
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,680
judgment. 
Now he said, now you without 

695
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,320
fault or seeing, now you throw 
the first stone. 

696
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,440
There's only one individual that
could have passed us that 

697
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:50,400
throwing a stone that was Jesus 
Christ. 

698
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,040
But instead of throwing a stone,
he says, I'm going to save her. 

699
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,440
I'm not going to I'm not going 
to condemn her. 

700
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:01,760
And that I think, I think that's
that's the mentality that we 

701
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,520
need to get into our church and 
our people today. 

702
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,800
We're here to save people, not 
to condemn them. 

703
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,720
Let let the word take care of 
that you know. 

704
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,160
Well, to, to, to build on that, 
he, Jesus did say that, you 

705
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,040
know, those who are sick are the
ones who need a physician, not 

706
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,280
the ones who are claiming to be 
perfect. 

707
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,800
So if, if someone's not exactly 
the way you think they are, I 

708
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,760
mean, who are you to judge them?
But you know, those are the type

709
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:29,360
of people that I feel like is 
who we should really be trying 

710
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,800
to reach out for and being 
catering more to it just because

711
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,240
at one point in time we were in 
those shoes. 

712
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:39,000
We were the ones who were. 
Some of you, yeah, that's right.

713
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:42,160
And I think every single one of 
us, if you base it off of that 

714
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,000
and that that's where it's hard.
You come back into the word for 

715
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,080
me. 
You come back into the Lord and 

716
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,120
you're growing and learning. 
And when I came back into 

717
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,360
church, there was a lot that God
had to break down in my 

718
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,760
personality, in my traits, 
especially the way I treated 

719
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,200
people. 
You know, that that was my 

720
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:00,800
biggest issue. 
And I'm still working on that. 

721
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:02,200
I'm going to be real, especially
my brother. 

722
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,360
But I, I think it's so easy 
because all of us can be 

723
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,200
condemned off of our action if 
we're going up there without the

724
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,400
blood of Jesus at the end of 
judgement. 

725
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,680
Every single one of us can be 
condemned if we're basing it off

726
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:17,880
of this is the law. 
Did you keep it? 

727
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:19,720
But thankful for the blood of 
Jesus. 

728
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:24,680
And I think having that mindset 
of it's only Jesus that gets us 

729
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,520
into that place of righteousness
because we can't do it 

730
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,560
ourselves. 
That changed my mind. 

731
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,000
And it's really from people like
you and Mac. 

732
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,520
You know that for me. 
We're a light even and I was 

733
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,240
roaming around in darkness. 
You've got these anchors of 

734
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:43,040
people who you know, you Mac 
especially was, was huge for me.

735
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,480
And when I came back into 
church, he's one that I could 

736
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:49,640
talk to because we walked a 
similar path a whole lot having 

737
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:51,560
those voices too. 
And that's for me. 

738
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,240
I'm, I'm never going to pass 
judgement on people that are 

739
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:57,520
growing because I know right 
where I was at and then I, I 

740
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,400
know where I'm still growing. 
You know, I, I think that's one 

741
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,400
of the biggest things that you 
could say, especially at your 

742
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,000
age. 
That means so much to me that 

743
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,360
you still have that moment of 
we're not, we're not passing 

744
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,560
judgement on people. 
That's Jesus's job. 

745
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,320
The best thing we can do is love
people. 

746
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,000
Yeah. 
Yeah, I was, I was just going to

747
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,680
say something on that. 
You know, people have asked me 

748
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,800
in the past and you guys may ask
me this question when when it 

749
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,600
comes my time to be sitting in 
pop seat, but I'll go ahead and 

750
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,280
answer it today. 
That way I'll have more time to 

751
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:33,000
answer other questions. 
But you know, probably the most,

752
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:41,600
the most desirous trait that my 
dad has that I'm still working 

753
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:47,000
on is I don't know anybody that 
has more mercy except for God 

754
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,800
than my dad. 
And I say that from a 

755
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:55,600
perspective of he raised three 
children, that all of us turned 

756
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,760
away from God and stayed away 
from God for quite a while. 

757
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,160
And he just kept on loving us, 
kept on praying for us. 

758
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:08,600
And you know, he knew God would,
he knew God would work on us and

759
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,720
we'd be back. 
And he he all, my family, all of

760
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:17,160
his family, his nieces and 
nephews, they never hesitated to

761
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,240
call him even though they were 
living in sin. 

762
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,120
And that means a lot too because
like on a similar note, without 

763
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,080
getting emotional, because me 
and Mac are both little 

764
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:31,240
crybabies, we're going to be 
crying in, in his podcast, my 

765
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:35,400
dad is the maybe the one 
minister in my life that when I 

766
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,040
was walking around, it's easy to
point out how people are not 

767
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,400
what they say they are. 
They're not merciful, they're 

768
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,400
not loving, especially when 
you're sinning and you see those

769
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,680
people. 
And my dad made it so hard for 

770
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,600
me to to have that mindset 
because same thing, it didn't 

771
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,360
matter what I was doing, I was 
always welcome in his house. 

772
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,880
I was always there and he was 
always praying for me. 

773
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,520
And I think that prayer, that 
fervent prayer, that fervent 

774
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,720
love is a one thing that got me 
back and it takes time. 

775
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:06,360
Everybody's on the journey and 
I, and that's the biggest part 

776
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,200
for me, I guess, even hearing 
you from a long time ago, 

777
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,920
because the old church gets a 
bad Rep about old Hellfire and 

778
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:13,640
Rimstone, you know, And here you
are. 

779
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,280
How old are you? 
What 84? 

780
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,240
86 Wow. 
Oh man. 86 years old, though, 

781
00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:21,240
and and your your biggest thing 
he says. 

782
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:23,200
What have you learned is don't 
pass judgement. 

783
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,920
That's crazy. 
You know, after generations of 

784
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,480
oh, Hellfire and brimstone, the 
one thing that you really point 

785
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,400
out is don't pass judgement. 
And that I think ties back to 

786
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,720
you find the truth. 
If you're you're searching for 

787
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:38,400
it, you're going to find the 
truth. 86 years of all of this 

788
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,640
and your lesson there is don't 
pass judgement. 

789
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,760
And that's a huge lesson for me.
Where'd it go ahead? 

790
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,800
Papa, I was just going to ask 
you how What advice would you 

791
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,960
give to people to learn how to 
be merciful and how to show 

792
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:55,440
mercy to others? 
I I really shouldn't know how to

793
00:46:55,440 --> 00:47:00,800
answer that Cam because I really
I don't know. 

794
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:06,200
It's just you just got to love 
people. 

795
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,680
I mean, if you really, if you 
really love people and and 

796
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:16,440
really care about them, you 
going to try to do the very best

797
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,760
you can not to offend them and 
not to hurt them. 

798
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,880
Show, I don't know, when you 
kind of rough on them and and 

799
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,080
making them feel like they're 
not worth dealing with, then 

800
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,480
you're not going to you're not 
going to reach them. 

801
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:36,120
But if you can, if you can just 
show the Bible said love. 

802
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,920
What? 
Love covers a multitude of sin, 

803
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,600
and that's what Jesus did. 
Jesus came loving people, man. 

804
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:53,240
How many times could Jesus have 
casts that just say, hey, you're

805
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:56,760
not, you're not worth dealing 
with, Just get out of my way, 

806
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,800
you know? 
But no, he, he wouldn't. 

807
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,080
In fact, he went out of his way 
to reach people. 

808
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,920
He went out of his way to go to 
Samaritan when Jews don't go to 

809
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,680
Samaritan, man, Hey, you, you 
don't hang out there. 

810
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,280
That's a bad place to go. 
I know one time in my world, my 

811
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,520
pastor didn't look for, there's 
a young man and his wife started

812
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,360
coming to church. 
Bob and his wife, bad little 

813
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,800
girl, actually, they were just 
living together. 

814
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,160
They hadn't gotten married. 
They just living together. 

815
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,360
They start to come to church. 
She got in, got the Holy Ghost. 

816
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,120
And then I told her, I said, 
now, Hun, you got the, you got 

817
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,720
to work out. 
Besides that, you can't you and 

818
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:35,880
Bob can't continue to live the 
way you're living and you have 

819
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,240
the Holy Ghost. 
Now you got to talk to Bob and 

820
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:43,440
see, you know, So she begin. 
So but Bob had a drinking 

821
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,960
problem on the weekend. 
So one night it was about about 

822
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:52,760
midnight, I got a call and this 
girl called me for and she said,

823
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,760
are you are you reverent 
testing? 

824
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,280
I said yes, I am. 
She said, well, I've got Bob 

825
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:05,720
here at the bar and he's drunk. 
He won't go home and we can't 

826
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:09,360
get him out and it's time for us
to close and he told us to call 

827
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:14,960
you. 
I said what she said. 

828
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,760
Bob told us. 
He said call my preacher. 

829
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,160
My preacher would come get me 
and Take Me Home. 

830
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,600
So I said, where are you? 
So I got up and got dressed and 

831
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,080
Carrie said, where you going? 
I said, I've got to go get Bob. 

832
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,000
He's at a bar and he's drunk. 
He won't go home. 

833
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,680
They get in there stomping in my
clothes. 

834
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,320
She said, what if somebody sees 
you going in there? 

835
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,400
And guys said, Carol, what am I 
supposed to do? 

836
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,960
Just leave him in there? 
I said I go. 

837
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:43,680
I said God knows what I'm going 
in there for. 

838
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,200
God knows I'm not going in there
to drink or nothing. 

839
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:51,280
So I couldn't in there and 
overlook this and I'm just going

840
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,880
to tell you what Bob said He So 
I walked in the door. 

841
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,280
He said, see, I told you and he 
looked at that girl. 

842
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,480
See, I told you how good looking
he was. 

843
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,440
Anyway, I got Bob and took him 
home and got him got him sober. 

844
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,600
Go well, got him ready, got him 
in bed and get told his wife. 

845
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,560
If you need me, give me a call, 
you know. 

846
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:14,960
But he was in church the next 
day. 

847
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,880
But but Bob got in church. 
He got the Holy Ghost and got 

848
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:20,640
there. 
In fact, there I lived long 

849
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:24,040
port, but somebody said he and 
his wife got into the ministry. 

850
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:25,840
Now, whether they did or not, I 
don't know. 

851
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,360
I'm just going to what what I 
was told. 

852
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:31,760
But but that's that's kind of 
love you got. 

853
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:37,040
Damn, but sometimes you have to 
maybe cross the boundary that 

854
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,560
people might say, well, you 
ain't got no business to. 

855
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,640
But really, just like Jesus, 
Jesus, you have no business 

856
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,440
going to Samaria where testing, 
you have no business going to 

857
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,240
the but I had a soul. 
I had a soul I got to try to 

858
00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:53,080
save. 
So that goes back to Jesus, 

859
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:54,600
right? 
They called him a wine Bibber, 

860
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:55,680
right? 
Yeah, that's true. 

861
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,800
So if you're not willing to risk
your reputation for somebody 

862
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,800
else, what are you willing to 
risk it for, right? 

863
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,200
Well, for for his story, for 
Bob's story, I wonder, like the 

864
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,960
the path there, his life may 
have turned out completely 

865
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,120
different if you didn't go to 
that bar that night and pick him

866
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:11,440
up. 
God knows what would have 

867
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,040
happened in his life. 
That's true. 

868
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:19,320
And you know, if he hadn't been 
stubborn enough not to leave and

869
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,720
not to get in his car, he may 
have never made a meter. 

870
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:26,560
So but God, God works in 
mysterious ways. 

871
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:31,520
Let's face it now. 
And if they if God hadn't put it

872
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,280
in, not over, maybe it wasn't 
God anyway. 

873
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,280
He stayed there and was stubborn
enough. 

874
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,240
I'm not going to leave until my 
pastor comes against me and like

875
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:44,240
you can say, because we, we 
don't know what that'll come out

876
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:46,400
of being, but God, God knows 
what he's doing. 

877
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,480
Let me give you let me give you 
a good exit. 

878
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,800
Something's funny, OK. 
We was in a roar and we was 

879
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,320
heaven, Brother Lewis. 
And we had a great choir. 

880
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:01,080
We built a choir off and started
a choir and it had a great, one 

881
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,000
of the best choirs that I it was
really great, not not because 

882
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,960
Carol and I was doing, but we 
had some great singers and all 

883
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,640
but Carol played the piano. 
We had this lady Charlotte was 

884
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,800
on the organ. 
Now Charlotte was a good woman. 

885
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:20,080
She was a but she's very stiff. 
You never seen any kind of 

886
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,760
movement out of her. 
You never, I never seen her 

887
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,520
shout, never. 
Nothing yelled to. 

888
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,160
But we was in church one Sunday 
night. 

889
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,720
I was leading the service and we
Lisa praising God was 

890
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,920
worshipping we that's before we 
had these praise singers. 

891
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,440
We the whole congregation just 
was singing. 

892
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:42,640
So we were singing and, and 
Brother Louis seen it. 

893
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,880
I didn't see it because you're 
behind me, but there's a mouse 

894
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:50,520
that ran out across the rostrum 
back to the pulpit. 

895
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,080
And Brother Louis was watching 
it. 

896
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:56,000
And that mouse ran under the 
organ where Charlotte was 

897
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:01,440
playing, and suddenly this one 
that never made any kind of 

898
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:06,040
movement suddenly jumped up and 
shouted and screamed out loud. 

899
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:09,960
Man in the whole church, though,
the whole man, the Spirit of God

900
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:14,720
is hit Charlotte, the whole 
church went up in and I mean 

901
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:17,640
everybody. 
That's when the, you know, heard

902
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,960
the story by the squirrels. 
This was a mouse. 

903
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,120
But though we thought Charlotte,
and like I said, now he was old.

904
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,760
I didn't know what was going on.
I thought I would like everybody

905
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:30,840
else out of that man. 
Charlotte's really getting a 

906
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:35,120
blessing, you know, but we've 
had Carol now we've had some 

907
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,000
good times. 
We got God's being good to us, 

908
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,560
and I know how God gave us a 
good ministry. 

909
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,600
Yep. 
Where did you spend your most 

910
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,720
time at in your ministry? 
Like at one individual place? 

911
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:55,480
Where was that? 
Like I don't know really a lot 

912
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:57,840
Porter probably be the most 
ever. 

913
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,040
We never. 
I'll be honest with you, I 

914
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,240
wasn't I wasn't too good of a 
pastor. 

915
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:11,760
I was evangelists, but we we 
passed in Lockport, we passed it

916
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,600
at Milton and we passed it in, 
like I said, in Apopka. 

917
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:20,120
And then the last church we 
passed was in back Memphis, TN. 

918
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,360
That's before we come here to be
with Matt. 

919
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,120
Yeah. 
But I guess, I guess we set 

920
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,760
Lockport more than along with 
any place else. 

921
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,160
But God did. 
But I have to say this now. 

922
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:33,760
God did bless us wherever where 
we went. 

923
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:38,960
We saw growth in God bless us in
the ministry, but did what our 

924
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,680
pastor were wasn't long. 
It wasn't very long. 

925
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,960
Was there a time in your life 
where you felt like you had to 

926
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:51,320
basically wholly depend on God, 
maybe emotionally or you know, 

927
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,520
through through struggles? 
Basically, was there a point 

928
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,320
where you just said, the only 
thing I got in my life right now

929
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,080
is I'm holding on to God? 
You know what I mean? 

930
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:02,480
Well, now when we first started 
evangelizing, now it was all 

931
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,760
faith go. 
Well, like I said, we, we 

932
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:10,000
stepped when we stepped out to 
evangelize, we had no big bank 

933
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,720
account. 
We had nobody supporting us. 

934
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,560
We had no church supporting us. 
We was out, just out on our own 

935
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,720
because there was times that I 
didn't know where was going to 

936
00:55:19,720 --> 00:55:23,120
get the money for the next tank 
of gas. 

937
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,000
And then I remember there's one 
time Carols we was in 

938
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:33,400
Brownsville IN preaching at 
Brownsville IN and Becky was 

939
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,760
just Smalling. 
Carol says Becky, don't have we 

940
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,800
don't have any milk for for the 
baby. 

941
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,320
And I didn't have any money. 
I mean, I was completely broke. 

942
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,720
Now they had us in the park. 
They had a little evangelistic 

943
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:50,920
apartment where we were staying.
And I told Carol, I said, Carol,

944
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:55,000
all I know do is we just have to
ask Scott to supply the need. 

945
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,280
So we we had a service that 
night. 

946
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,760
We church, of course at that 
time they didn't give you an 

947
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,560
offering at night. 
They waited till the end of the 

948
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,160
week and then they gave you a 
check or offer, whatever, you 

949
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,840
know. 
And it really now a lot of a lot

950
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,680
of times they didn't pay 
evangelists as well as they pay 

951
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,440
them now. 
In fact, that's one reason hard 

952
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,080
to keep evangelists on the field
because they just couldn't make 

953
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,760
it financially. 
But anyway, we went to church 

954
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:28,080
house service, come back home 
and Becky said Carol says, what 

955
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,480
are we going to do about Becky? 
She needs some, some, some milk.

956
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,600
And I said, I don't know, Hun. 
I, I don't have anything about 

957
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,360
that time. 
A knock on the door and this man

958
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,120
was there with two bags of 
groceries and said God laid on 

959
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:43,680
my heart to bring y'all some 
things. 

960
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,880
And then that bag of goats, it 
was a big gallon of milk that 

961
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:51,640
took care of Bakey. 
But I mean that we actually we 

962
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:56,080
actually live by live by own 
faith as we when we evangelized.

963
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:02,240
And that's that's, that's huge 
because only only God could have

964
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:03,760
known what you guys were going 
through at that time. 

965
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,280
One thing that we kind of 
touched on on the last podcast, 

966
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,640
I'd want to do it again now that
we've got 2, both you guys here,

967
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:14,440
but I think there's a huge value
in the importance of having a 

968
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,960
good loving father. 
I think that's something that 

969
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,040
today's world tries to really 
just beat down on it and get rid

970
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,160
of because of how valuable it 
can be to a family. 

971
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,680
Matt touched on a little bit 
earlier, even through everything

972
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,920
that he was doing, you still 
loved him and you never gave up 

973
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,960
and you always were just as if, 
just like the prodigal story, 

974
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,680
you, you were ready, you were 
looking out waiting for him to 

975
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,200
come back. 
And, and that really, I would 

976
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,960
imagine, made a pretty big 
impact on you when you do come 

977
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:44,480
back, you know, you had that 
father that's looking out for 

978
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:45,560
you, that's, that's ready for 
you. 

979
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:47,360
So you don't feel judged when 
you get back. 

980
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:50,360
What do you, what do you just 
can you go a little bit further 

981
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,960
on that of what you put the 
value on as far as a good godly 

982
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,240
father in the home and and 
caring and loving for his family

983
00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:03,120
and being there. 
Well, well, Wendy, when our kids

984
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,640
like, like Max said now, they, 
they went there. 

985
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:11,320
Well, I mean, they they really 
went out and got involved with a

986
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,040
lot of things that they should 
have never got involved in. 

987
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,160
Let's be, let's be careful here,
Pop. 

988
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,160
No, don't, don't, don't give too
much information. 

989
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:22,960
They just got involved with 
things they shouldn't get 

990
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:31,040
involved in. 
OK, But I, Carol, Carol and I 

991
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:36,920
totally said, Carol, all we can 
do is hold them up in prayer and

992
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:41,360
keep them before God and and 
keep loving them. 

993
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:53,000
And we tried in just like Mack. 
And when when Seth was born, I 

994
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:57,280
told him, I said, now Mack, I'm 
going to take him to church. 

995
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:03,000
If y'all said if y'all not going
to church, I'm taking him to 

996
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:07,800
church. 
So when Seth was born, Mac told 

997
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:11,280
Donna said get ready because we 
got to go to church. 

998
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,960
Oh, no, no, but he said, hell, 
we go to church and this to 

999
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,480
satisfy daddy for a while, you 
know, but that's what got them 

1000
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,840
back into church because they 
they took him to church and sit 

1001
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,520
on me, take him into church. 
And but I just I just watched 

1002
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:30,600
the hand of God move Johnny. 
All I could do is just keep 

1003
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:36,160
praying for him and I knew 
sooner or later that God would 

1004
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,800
answer my prayer if I would just
stay faithful. 

1005
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,440
I would say a lot of ministers 
especially, but a lot of 

1006
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:46,360
Christians are just that 
struggle whenever their children

1007
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:50,200
or family or loved ones kind of 
are obstinate to them and and 

1008
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,240
kind of reject it. 
What encouragement would you 

1009
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,240
give to those who might find 
themselves in that circumstance?

1010
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:05,080
Who all I can say can be is just
be patient. 

1011
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:11,880
Be long-suffering and you don't 
condone what they're doing. 

1012
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:16,320
In fact, you tell them you, I 
mean, I'll let the kids know 

1013
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,040
that they didn't condone what 
they was doing. 

1014
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,520
But I would say the biggest 
thing that you can do, you just 

1015
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,680
have to be long-suffering and be
patient and and just continue to

1016
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:28,520
have that faith that they are 
God. 

1017
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:33,520
I know who you are. 
I know that you have the answer 

1018
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,520
to my to my knees and my kid, my
children that are needing you 

1019
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:43,920
and just just all you do is hold
them up before God, say now God,

1020
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,800
they're in your hands. 
I kept telling God, I said, now 

1021
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,560
God, I dedicated these kids to 
you. 

1022
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:56,240
They're not my children. 
They're your children and you 

1023
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,480
need to bring my prodigal back 
home. 

1024
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:01,240
And I saw God do it. 
God saw. 

1025
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,920
I saw all three of my kids back 
in church. 

1026
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,880
I'm on a, I'm going to just 
elaborate on that from from my 

1027
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:12,920
perspective and try to do it 
without getting emotional. 

1028
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:19,440
But there was one thing for sure
and it was same with my mom. 

1029
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,280
But we're talking about the 
influence of the father in the 

1030
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:26,560
home. 
I didn't go out and do things 

1031
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,920
with the mentality. 
That doesn't matter what I do, 

1032
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:31,920
God, And you know, dad's going 
to be there. 

1033
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:40,440
But didn't matter where I went. 
I knew if I called my dad, he'd 

1034
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:42,160
fight, you know what, to get 
there. 

1035
01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:47,840
And I never had any doubt that 
dad would be there. 

1036
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:54,680
So I've tried to be that guy, 
you know, not just for not just 

1037
01:01:54,680 --> 01:02:00,360
for his kids, but all of my 
cousins, everybody, all the 

1038
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:02,920
family members. 
And I mean, I think you guys can

1039
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,920
probably attest to it that he 
may have never told you this, 

1040
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:12,720
but I guarantee you if if y'all 
ever gotten hurt and you called 

1041
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,720
him now he might call me and 
say, Mac, we got to go get Kobe,

1042
01:02:16,960 --> 01:02:20,960
you know what I mean? 
But, but at the same time, I 

1043
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:25,400
knew no matter what, dad was 
there and, and he was a truck 

1044
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,600
driver and he was a, and he was 
a minister. 

1045
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:32,240
So there were times that he 
wasn't home, but when he was 

1046
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:37,040
home, he was there. 
And, and so anyway, I've tried 

1047
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:43,000
to make sure that that my kids 
know and, and I try to let you 

1048
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,280
guys know as much as I can. 
If you ever need me, I got you. 

1049
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:51,680
Well, let me say this, just like
with my nieces and nephews that 

1050
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:57,640
I've got, they've depended on me
for, but yet is that like as 

1051
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,400
they have depended on me now 
they've turned that dependent 

1052
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:06,560
dependency to Mac and I told 
Mac, I said to Mac, I'm going to

1053
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:09,200
be gone and they're going to 
depend on you. 

1054
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:13,400
And so and they have, would they
have something to eat or what 

1055
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:17,400
was it like when my nephews 
passed away and my sisters 

1056
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,960
passed away? 
They look for Mac to preach the 

1057
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,240
funeral. 
And I told Mac I said, you've 

1058
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,520
got to be ready for that now 
because you going to take my 

1059
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:28,240
shoes. 
And I'm glad there's somebody 

1060
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:32,240
that able to take pick up my 
shoes and go on with it. 

1061
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,240
And Mac and Mac's doing a great 
job with my nieces and nephews. 

1062
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,560
What I was, I love that because 
one of the biggest things and 

1063
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:44,040
how that affects me is you. 
You, you maybe don't realize the

1064
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,640
effect you have on people that 
you don't exclusively interact 

1065
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:51,000
with, because the effect you had
on Brother Mack changed his 

1066
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,080
perspective and it taught him 
how to, to be patient in the 

1067
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,360
same way. 
And that affected, I would say 

1068
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,600
at least two out of the three of
us from me and Colby, because 

1069
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,200
when we, when we were there, 
you, you Remember Me, I was just

1070
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:04,800
punk. 
But. 

1071
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,640
Yes. 
You know, you, you have that 

1072
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,120
patience with, with me. 
He had that patience with me. 

1073
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:13,040
Let me into his home, didn't 
even know who I was. 

1074
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,080
And that's, that's, that's a 
remnant of the fact that you 

1075
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,600
were patient with him. 
So that just shows the domino 

1076
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,960
effect that your attitude and 
your outlook on things can have 

1077
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:26,600
on people that you may not even 
directly work with or talk to. 

1078
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:28,560
And that's just, that's so huge 
to me. 

1079
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,560
And I think that ties back to 
church community because I think

1080
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:36,400
now in the world, there's not a 
natural place for you to, to 

1081
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,800
find friends, even, you know, 
and find your own community. 

1082
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,320
And I think that's why you see 
all these gravitations to 

1083
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:47,120
different small sects of 
community, you know, And then 

1084
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:51,480
with Mack, his influence that's 
directly influenced from you has

1085
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:54,480
passed on to us. 
And I think that strong network 

1086
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:56,560
of fathers, even I've got two 
boys now. 

1087
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,480
And then if anybody gives me a 
buzz, because I've seen men and 

1088
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:04,920
and leaders in my life have that
mentality, I think that's just 

1089
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:06,880
going to trickle out to 
everybody else. 

1090
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,680
And hopefully one day I'm 
sitting in y'all's shoes where 

1091
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:13,200
I've lived in my life that type 
of way where my kids and then 

1092
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,920
their friends have that same 
mentality because they've seen 

1093
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:19,120
it done. 
But I, I think ultimately it 

1094
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:22,080
strengthens a church community 
because it does feel like a 

1095
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,880
family. 
I know if I am in trouble at 

1096
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,360
all, I can call Mack anytime. 
And I've done it several times 

1097
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:30,400
in the past. 
We don't have talked about but, 

1098
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:33,080
but I have done it several times
in the past. 

1099
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:36,120
And and the same time, there's 
times where I wasn't living for 

1100
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,560
the Lord necessarily and called 
Mack, needed him to come through

1101
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:40,920
for me and he did without any 
judgement. 

1102
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,000
So much respect, which we're not
going to dive into, of course. 

1103
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,320
And we don't need to make, we 
need to make sure your dad 

1104
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:49,880
doesn't know anything about 
those situations either because 

1105
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:53,360
he didn't know then. 
He had a funny way of figuring 

1106
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:57,600
out though, I'll tell you that. 
Pop, during your ministry, did 

1107
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,600
you ever see any significant 
miracles that you just said? 

1108
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:06,120
This has to be God. 
Yeah, when we passed it in Cobb 

1109
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:10,880
in Illinois, I saw a woman that 
was death in the right ear. 

1110
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:16,880
I seen God unstopped that ear 
and then I had a friend that on 

1111
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:22,000
the on the restaurant there in 
Anna, IL, he come down with 

1112
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:27,280
cancer and they had to take him 
to Saint Louis for treatment. 

1113
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:31,080
Well, I took the elders from our
church in Cobbet and we went to 

1114
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:36,280
Saint Louis and to pray for him 
and we seen God heal him of 

1115
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:40,600
cancer there in Saint Louis. 
And he come back home and 

1116
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,400
testified about how God had 
reached him up. 

1117
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:51,240
Yeah, I saw that. 
And well, I've seen, I've seen 

1118
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,320
things like that, you know, many
times. 

1119
01:06:54,320 --> 01:07:00,880
And then then I've seen God save
people, that people, they, they 

1120
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:05,400
hope for them. 
You know, Derek Milton, actually

1121
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,720
one of the dope little guy that 
was dealing in dope, known in 

1122
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:13,320
the Santa Rosa County as one of 
the biggest dope dealers. 

1123
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:15,880
He began to come to our church 
at Milton. 

1124
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:21,800
You remember Eddie Evans and we 
saw him come to the Lord and God

1125
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,160
filled him with the baptism, the
Holy Ghost. 

1126
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,360
And we so we seen how God had 
changed people's lives. 

1127
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:37,760
But now I want to say this, 
that's where that's where the 

1128
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:44,560
I've seen people fail. 
Now Eddie, come to the Lord, he,

1129
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:49,720
he and his wife both and family 
was coming, but people could not

1130
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,120
get over the fact every time 
they saw you, every time you 

1131
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,720
mentioned Eddie's name. 
Oh, he's dope. 

1132
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:57,560
He's a dope man. 
He's a dope man. 

1133
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,200
He's a dope. 
They would not let him get live 

1134
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:06,600
out from under that shelter. 
And to my knowledge, Eddie went,

1135
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:10,200
Eddie went back on the Lord and 
I guess he died lost. 

1136
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:15,080
He died very early in life. 
But that's what I'm talking 

1137
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:16,880
about. 
We we can't afford to be 

1138
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:21,000
judgmental because when God 
saves people, he saves them from

1139
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:25,880
what they were. 
But that everyone, when you Oh 

1140
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,640
yeah, remember him, He's the 1. 
You could go to get dope. 

1141
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,520
You could go get dope. 
And he he couldn't seem to. 

1142
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:36,720
And and so it that troubles me 
that really, but at least I did 

1143
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,600
see God bring him in. 
He was baptized and filled with 

1144
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:42,960
the Holy Ghost. 
Catherine was baptized and 

1145
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:45,880
filled with the Holy Ghost. 
Her sister was baptized and 

1146
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:50,720
filled with the Holy Ghost. 
But but because people were not 

1147
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:55,279
careful about how they handle 
people, I think all of them 

1148
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:59,920
finally went back on God. 
I'm not sure, but it troubles 

1149
01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:01,479
me. 
It bothers me. 

1150
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:08,760
We need to, you know it, we need
to let people if when God saves 

1151
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:12,160
and we need to let, let God 
handle all the past, you know, 

1152
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:17,600
but you can't change the past. 
I mean, I wish I look at my 

1153
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,399
life, I look back and there's 
things in my life I wish. 

1154
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,520
But once I do, I mean, it's like
water under the bridge. 

1155
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,359
You can't bring it back. 
You can't change your past. 

1156
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,680
All you got to say, God forgive 
me for what I've done and let 

1157
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:33,319
and just go on, but some people 
just can't let you pass. 

1158
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:37,560
They can't leave it alone. 
You touched on something there 

1159
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:40,479
too, because he asked about 
miracles and I think this is 

1160
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:43,160
some mindset for us. 
But like the man that was 

1161
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:46,319
lowered into the room with 
Jesus, right? 

1162
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:49,359
What's the first thing he told 
him was like, go, your sins are 

1163
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,600
forgiving you, right? 
And then when the Pharisees 

1164
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:56,560
didn't believe, he says, what's 
easier to to tell him that his 

1165
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:58,440
sins are forgiven or to get up 
and walk. 

1166
01:09:58,440 --> 01:10:00,960
And then he performed a physical
miracle. 

1167
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,920
But what you said right there, 
the miracle is that we can have 

1168
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:07,480
that salvation. 
It don't matter how far we get 

1169
01:10:07,480 --> 01:10:09,960
away from God. 
That's always there. 

1170
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:13,760
And then on our part as a 
church, that that story's 

1171
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:16,240
heartbreaking And you trust the 
mercy of God. 

1172
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:18,440
That's for me because it's it's 
hard for me a whole lot, 

1173
01:10:18,440 --> 01:10:22,000
especially in that situation 
where you say, was it other 

1174
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,360
humans that led him to turn away
from God? 

1175
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:30,280
It's you trust the faith and the
mercy of Jesus that he showed me

1176
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:34,600
that hopefully he found him no 
matter what and his time of life

1177
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:36,200
and he still had that 
opportunity. 

1178
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:39,120
For salvation. 
That reminds me of the story in 

1179
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,400
Luke with Jesus where they, 
they, he, he anointed them to go

1180
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:46,160
out and cast out the demons and 
they came back and he said we 

1181
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:50,680
were able to cast out demons. 
And Jesus says that I saw Satan 

1182
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:55,720
fall down like lightning. 
But don't rejoice over that, 

1183
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:57,520
right? 
Don't rejoice over this power 

1184
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,320
you got. 
Rejoice because your name is 

1185
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:02,120
written down in heaven. 
That's right. 

1186
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,440
I. 
Was going to I was going to say 

1187
01:11:04,440 --> 01:11:09,280
something real quick, you know, 
because and this is this is 

1188
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,280
something that I've kind of been
stuck on for a little while in 

1189
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:16,440
our in our society today and 
then and Pentecost as a whole. 

1190
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:23,240
I think sometimes we forget the 
miracle of salvation as we know 

1191
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:30,080
it to, to have that revelation, 
to see the need to repent, to be

1192
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,680
baptized, to be filled with the 
Holy Ghost, with the evidence of

1193
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:37,080
speaking in tongues and then be 
obedient to do it, that it's a 

1194
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:42,120
miracle. 
And so I've heard stories not 

1195
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:47,640
just from mom and dad, but of, 
you know, Dad's ministry, 

1196
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,480
especially on the evangelistic 
field. 

1197
01:11:50,480 --> 01:11:55,520
I know that I think all three of
y'all have heard Pop preach. 

1198
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,360
And this is, I'm, I'm giving him
a hard time a little bit, but 

1199
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,600
y'all, y'all heard him preach as
an older man. 

1200
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:06,600
So he tended to be a little long
winded and that that's because 

1201
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:08,720
that's because so much wisdom 
was in there. 

1202
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:10,480
You know, I need to make sure 
and mention all of it. 

1203
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,160
But, but correct me if I'm 
wrong, Dad. 

1204
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:19,520
But when, when he was on the 
evangelistic field, usually 20 

1205
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:23,360
to 30 minutes of preaching. 
And by that time, the Spirit's 

1206
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:27,840
fallen and there were hundreds 
and maybe thousands of people 

1207
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:30,480
that had been filled with the 
Holy Ghost ear and revivals that

1208
01:12:30,480 --> 01:12:36,440
he and mom were part of because 
mom and dad both were, were very

1209
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:39,200
sensitive to the spirit. 
And dad knew when to when to 

1210
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,360
shut it down. 
He knew when God was ready to 

1211
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:44,680
move and he would just go ahead 
and shut it down as far as the 

1212
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:48,120
preaching goes and do the altar 
service and, and it was time to 

1213
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:50,720
go. 
And he, he learned that from his

1214
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:52,520
dad. 
Maybe they didn't realize it, 

1215
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:56,880
but Papa was always that way. 
I remember as a as a little kid,

1216
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,520
you know, Papa would be up 
preaching and Papa could really 

1217
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:04,800
preach a long time if even if he
tempted, if he took a notion to 

1218
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:08,400
but he'd be up preaching and 
then he would just, he would 

1219
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:09,880
just shut it down and give an 
altar call. 

1220
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:20,600
Yeah, the thing about it, just 
like there's times Kobe and I'd 

1221
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:25,760
be leading, Sir, leading 
servants and everything. 

1222
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:30,400
Carol played the piano, you 
know, and I would, God would be 

1223
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:35,320
begin and I'd be preaching and I
would turn to her to tell her 

1224
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:37,960
what course I wanted. 
And all of a sudden she starts 

1225
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,920
singing it. 
The very course that God laid on

1226
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:45,200
my heart. 
I mean God put us together 

1227
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,560
because we work so well 
together. 

1228
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:55,360
I mean she has I've never seen 
anybody that it could have the 

1229
01:13:55,360 --> 01:14:01,280
leading of the Spirit. 
Carol knew exactly what courses 

1230
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:06,000
are saying at what time. 
I've seen other places today. 

1231
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:09,920
It bothers me sometime when I 
see preachers get up and give 

1232
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:15,600
the preach their heart out and 
then whoever comes with the they

1233
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:21,360
have a song so far out from what
the guy was preaching about that

1234
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,920
it don't fit, you know, but now 
curl wasn't there. 

1235
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:28,960
I mean, it seemed like every 
time she got going, it would it 

1236
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:32,200
would harmonize with what God 
was doing. 

1237
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:35,560
And that's how you keep, that's 
how you keep the flow of the 

1238
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:39,800
Spirit going. 
You, I know you got to, I know 

1239
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,920
you got to practice and I know 
you got to come together. 

1240
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:48,320
You got, but you can't program 
God and you cannot program a 

1241
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:50,960
service. 
Now you might go there with the 

1242
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:55,560
intentions. 
This is what we're going to do. 

1243
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:00,720
But in doing what you think 
you're going to do, God gives 

1244
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:05,200
you a 90° curve. 
Well, you got to be willing to 

1245
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:07,600
make that curve. 
If you don't make that curve, 

1246
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,360
you going to wreck you see what 
I mean? 

1247
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:14,440
But a lot of people will ignore 
the leading of the Spirit and go

1248
01:15:14,440 --> 01:15:17,240
over because they, oh, this is 
what I've got planned. 

1249
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:22,160
But you can't plan God. 
The Bible says who can know the 

1250
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:26,920
mind of God? 
All we can do is be led by the 

1251
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,960
Spirit of God. 
Like I said, yeah, we've got 

1252
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:36,240
their mind mindset where we 
like, but then my God see what 

1253
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:38,600
it is. 
God knows who's going to be 

1254
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,720
there and God knows what their 
needs are. 

1255
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,400
That's right. 
I've told you many time and I've

1256
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:49,400
told you, K sure, study and have
your message be open. 

1257
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:53,800
Be open to the leading of this. 
If God leads you someplace else,

1258
01:15:54,440 --> 01:15:57,000
go with it. 
I've told Kim that. 

1259
01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:00,160
I've told Mike that. 
Be willing to be willing to 

1260
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:03,640
forget your notes. 
If your notes is not where God 

1261
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:06,640
wants you to go, you go with 
where God wants you to go 

1262
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:09,560
because God knows who you're 
ministering to. 

1263
01:16:09,800 --> 01:16:13,160
So that's why we always need to 
be open to this leading of the 

1264
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:16,600
Spirit. 
And then that's the way That's 

1265
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:18,720
what I always appreciate about 
Carol. 

1266
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:22,640
She seemed like she always knew 
exactly what I needed when I 

1267
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:27,160
needed it. 
We, all three of us, are young 

1268
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:29,880
married men. 
Well, young figure speaks I 

1269
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:35,600
guess, but younger and married 
man, I know he's he's aging up 

1270
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,920
there. 
You talked about your 

1271
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,800
partnership and even for us, I 
mean you, you look at y'all's 

1272
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:44,800
relationship and all of the 
years y'all have been together. 

1273
01:16:44,880 --> 01:16:48,880
Do you mind talking about the 
importance of having a wife that

1274
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:53,240
is your partner and how y'all 
coincide and really complete 

1275
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:57,200
each other not just even on a 
daily but in your ministry? 

1276
01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:02,640
Also, well, it's very important 
Kobe, because of if you don't 

1277
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:08,560
have a, a a companion that that 
can work with you in harmony, 

1278
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,240
you're not going to be your 
ministry is not going to be 

1279
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:14,200
successful. 
I feel like that's one reason we

1280
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:18,160
now we did have we were very 
successful on the evangelistic 

1281
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:22,960
field and what church we 
pastored they they they they 

1282
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:26,080
were successful, but we just 
didn't stay very long at one 

1283
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:28,720
place. 
But it actually, I guess it, 

1284
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:31,920
that was my calling because 
that's the way my dad was really

1285
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:36,400
daddy with places. 
But but you, you got to be 

1286
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:42,320
willing to, I mean, you got to 
have somebody that has the same 

1287
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:48,320
calling that you've got, because
if they don't have that same 

1288
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:54,400
calling, then they don't feel 
the same urgency that you have 

1289
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:58,120
to fulfill the ministry. 
And I believe that's why I 

1290
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:02,280
walked Carol and I had, we had 
that calling that was together 

1291
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:05,720
and it if it wasn't there, we 
would have never been 

1292
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:09,760
successful. 
You know, it's kind of hard to 

1293
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:11,080
answer those. 
Yeah. 

1294
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:15,520
Does it take work or did did it 
just come natural for you? 

1295
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,120
Well, it was Carol and I just 
came natural. 

1296
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:22,480
I had some people. 
It may take work, it may take 

1297
01:18:22,480 --> 01:18:24,480
work. 
But it seemed like, like I said,

1298
01:18:24,480 --> 01:18:28,920
before we ever got married, we 
still worked in the local 

1299
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:31,200
church. 
She was the piano player and I 

1300
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:34,880
used to lead service. 
So we we always worked together.

1301
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:39,040
And then on weekends when I was 
preaching on like a Friday, on 

1302
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:42,120
this Saturday, she would go with
me and play the piano. 

1303
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:46,160
We'd same culture. 
So we always, even before we got

1304
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:50,080
married, we worked together as 
a, as a couple. 

1305
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:53,320
You know, in fact, we weren't 
even going together that time. 

1306
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:58,160
And I'm sure we went out, we 
went to church. 

1307
01:18:58,240 --> 01:19:00,960
I mean, she went with me to help
me work, but we weren't even 

1308
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:02,880
dating. 
In fact, I think she might have 

1309
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:04,240
been dating my brother at that 
time. 

1310
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:10,040
I'm not sure. 
So you're saying she got enough 

1311
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:11,000
to? 
Drink the bomb. 

1312
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:17,560
I'm not sure she did she did 
date my she dated my twin 

1313
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:20,360
brother for a while and her 
sister got upset. 

1314
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:23,440
Had to recall my her sister was 
like her my twin brother. 

1315
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:25,800
But no, like I said, we was 
working, but they were. 

1316
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,080
Twins so. 
Yeah, we were twins and y'all 

1317
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:29,160
look. 
Similar, right? 

1318
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:32,800
Yeah. 
No, they they looked identical. 

1319
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:35,800
Why? 
Couldn't the sister get over? 

1320
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:40,920
It when we were when we were 
before we got married, Monk 

1321
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:46,640
would call Carol pretending to 
be me and she was taught she was

1322
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,360
told because she could. 
They couldn't tell us support 

1323
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:52,720
and she would and she would tell
Monk all these things, you know,

1324
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:57,040
But anyway, like I said, but so 
we we worked together before we 

1325
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:00,680
ever got married. 
But it's like I said it, it just

1326
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,200
come to Kobe. 
Just kind of came natural, son. 

1327
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:05,560
That's crazy. 
Jared. 

1328
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:08,840
Yeah, Jared testing your 
grandson just pulled out some 

1329
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:10,720
pictures. 
I may be looking at two 

1330
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:13,960
different people, I don't know. 
Yeah, that's. 

1331
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,520
Crazy. 
What was your relationship like 

1332
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:19,840
with your brother? 
Very close. 

1333
01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:27,320
Yeah, it was, it was one of the 
hardest things I ever went 

1334
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:33,680
through when I lost him, I'd be 
but yeah, we, we, we was always 

1335
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,480
close. 
It was always together, always 

1336
01:20:36,480 --> 01:20:39,800
spent our time together. 
Even after we got married, We, 

1337
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:43,560
we made sure we had time to 
spend together. 

1338
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:48,840
And I, that's what I've always 
told Jared and Jayla. 

1339
01:20:49,880 --> 01:20:54,800
I would love to see them create 
a closeness that Monk and I had 

1340
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:59,040
because like I said, it was, it 
was, we had a very close 

1341
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:04,320
relationship. 
In fact, I think Monk, I think 

1342
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:06,800
Sharon, that's Monk's wife was 
Carol sister. 

1343
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,560
She varied. 
My twin brother Monk, I think 

1344
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:14,840
Sharon was kind of jealous of my
mum's relationship because she 

1345
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:18,880
said mum whether spent more time
with me than she had he had with

1346
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:20,120
her. 
So I don't know. 

1347
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:25,200
But when we was when we was 
together, we we were together, 

1348
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:31,160
but I lost him. 
He he was, he was, he was killed

1349
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:34,240
on his job. 
That was what that was one of 

1350
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:36,520
the hardest things ever faced 
that. 

1351
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:39,520
And then I lost Donna. 
Donna was dead. 

1352
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:42,520
My my ex-wife died Donna and I 
was real close. 

1353
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:51,840
I really, I really hurt there. 
So earlier y'all one of y'all 

1354
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:56,360
ask and I and I thought about 
this and I know we're probably 

1355
01:21:56,360 --> 01:22:02,000
way over on time, but y'all one 
of y'all ask what one of the 

1356
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,560
what kind of advice you would 
give on living through a 

1357
01:22:05,560 --> 01:22:11,000
difficult situation. 
And he talked about faith and 

1358
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:13,480
how God provided on the 
evangelistic field. 

1359
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:22,160
And and I hesitate to bring this
up, but leaning on God from an 

1360
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:26,400
emotional standpoint, I don't 
know which one was more 

1361
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:33,360
difficult, whether it was Uncle 
Monk or, or Donna, But I know 

1362
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:38,960
watching, watching him live 
through it with my Uncle Monk. 

1363
01:22:39,440 --> 01:22:43,440
I was dealing with my own with 
Donna, But watching him live 

1364
01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:49,400
through it with Uncle Monk and 
seeing him come through that, I 

1365
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:54,560
don't know if you can, but if 
you could share a little bit 

1366
01:22:54,760 --> 01:23:01,240
about, you know, I know you, you
struggled my SO just to give 

1367
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:03,280
out. 
I'll set the foundation and then

1368
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:07,440
you can finish it for me. 
Uncle Monk was electrocuted 

1369
01:23:10,040 --> 01:23:14,600
hanging or replacing light bulbs
at a football stadium, so he was

1370
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:19,400
hit with 7200 bolts twice 
immediately when they got him to

1371
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:23,760
Shands Hospital in Gainesville, 
FL, they amputated his right arm

1372
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:27,640
at his elbow and they amputated 
his left left leg just above his

1373
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:30,560
knee. 
And for a while there, they 

1374
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:32,800
thought they could save his, his
left arm. 

1375
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,400
And he was left-handed, Dad's 
right-handed. 

1376
01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:40,080
Uncle Monk was left-handed. 
And you know, they kind of 

1377
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:44,240
completed each other, but, but 
anyway, they ended up having to 

1378
01:23:44,240 --> 01:23:48,120
take his arm, his left arm at 
the shoulder because the poison 

1379
01:23:48,120 --> 01:23:50,960
was just too much. 
And they were having to keep him

1380
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:54,760
pumped full of fluids. 
So he was very unrecognizable 

1381
01:23:55,440 --> 01:23:58,120
except in the eyes. 
You, you could barely see his 

1382
01:23:58,120 --> 01:24:00,920
eyes, but you, you could tell it
was Uncle Monk in his eyes. 

1383
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:05,440
And I only saw Uncle Monk in 
that state once in the hospital.

1384
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:12,960
And I was 13, maybe something 
like that when this happened. 

1385
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:18,560
But for a long time, Dad could 
only see that image. 

1386
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:21,200
So, Dad, I'll let you take it 
from there. 

1387
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:33,000
I I couldn't sleep for months. 
All I could see was that 

1388
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:38,120
mutilated body. 
And I was up preaching. 

1389
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:44,600
But I was going to Brother 
Baines in Lebanon, IL Yeah, 

1390
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:47,920
Tennessee at this time. 
And but the Baines had asked me 

1391
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:48,960
to preach. 
I told him. 

1392
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,080
I said, well, but the Baines 
I'll try. 

1393
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:55,680
I said I don't know if I'll be 
able to or not, but Sister 

1394
01:24:55,680 --> 01:25:00,840
Baines told me, she said, but 
Eddie, when you got up behind 

1395
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:04,960
that pulpit, she said I saw your
knees buckle. 

1396
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:07,760
She said I thought she's going 
to drop. 

1397
01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:14,360
But she said I saw 2 angels come
down and they took you by the 

1398
01:25:14,440 --> 01:25:19,960
elbow and lifted you up. 
They held you up while you was 

1399
01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:25,040
preaching. 
I couldn't get that vigil of my 

1400
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:30,920
brother's body out. 
I don't know. 

1401
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:34,800
It was a vision. 
I don't know it was a dream. 

1402
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:45,600
But I saw God showed me my 
brother in Gainesville, my 

1403
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:51,120
brother's house, he had what we 
call a Florida room and we had 

1404
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:54,720
two recliners there, Monk said. 
One Monk wants 1. 

1405
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:59,280
Then I said to the other one, 
and I saw myself sitting in my 

1406
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:04,880
chair in the in the Florida 
room, 'cause Monk wasn't there, 

1407
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:12,320
Monk was gone. 
And God showed me Monk standing 

1408
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:19,160
in the doorway that led to the 
dining room from the Florida 

1409
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:24,040
Room. 
And God says, Ed, the next time 

1410
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:27,480
you see Monk, that's what you're
going to see. 

1411
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:30,960
You're not going to see a 
mutilated body. 

1412
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:37,240
That's how God will need me from
the. 

1413
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:41,320
Moon. 
I was caring because I know when

1414
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:45,800
I see moon I will see a whole 
body. 

1415
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:48,120
Glorious pie. 
Thank you Jesus. 

1416
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:49,880
Thank you Jesus. 
Thank you Jesus. 

1417
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:56,960
I love you, Lord, but that's how
God delivered me. 

1418
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:03,120
So God delivered. 
Me thank you for sharing with us

1419
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:08,560
pop that's powerful and real and
people need to know the strength

1420
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:13,200
that that God gave to you to 
carry on so thank you for 

1421
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:16,680
ministering and you ministering 
to me in my heart right now Papa

1422
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,480
and I appreciate. 
Well, I'm glad I'm able to share

1423
01:27:19,480 --> 01:27:22,640
it with you, son. 
God been blessed. 

1424
01:27:24,280 --> 01:27:27,480
Usually I ask at the end, what 
kind of lessons would you pass 

1425
01:27:27,480 --> 01:27:30,440
on to those, but I think you've 
already shared, you've already, 

1426
01:27:30,440 --> 01:27:32,320
you've already told us what 
that. 

1427
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:36,040
So I appreciate would you just 
give any encouragement to those 

1428
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:40,000
who might be listening to keep, 
keep the faith, keep going? 

1429
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:48,240
Just all I can say, Cam is just 
just keep loving God and serving

1430
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:53,840
God and trusting him. 
And we learned we need to learn 

1431
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:58,360
to put our complete dependence 
on him in the spirit. 

1432
01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:04,440
If we could learn wholly how to 
to put I'm still I'm still 

1433
01:28:04,440 --> 01:28:07,720
learning this. 
I don't think any of us has ever

1434
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:12,840
got to the point that we've 
learned how to fully put our 

1435
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:17,640
dependency upon him because we 
still trust ourselves too much. 

1436
01:28:18,240 --> 01:28:22,200
But we got to realize that only 
Jesus can carry us through 

1437
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:27,640
whatever problem or whatever 
circumstance, whatever 

1438
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:32,400
difficulties we're going to 
face, only God knows the answer 

1439
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:36,960
and he knows a way through it. 
So if we can just Simply put our

1440
01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:41,080
hands in the hands of God and 
say now God, I'm just your 

1441
01:28:41,080 --> 01:28:46,440
child, lead me to where I need 
to go and just trust him and 

1442
01:28:46,440 --> 01:28:51,600
believe him. 
This there's what they going to 

1443
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:56,320
tell you boys for sure. 
He'll he'll never let you down. 

1444
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:59,720
He's there. 
He's there for you. 

1445
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:04,320
She'll just trust. 
Him as we kind of come to a 

1446
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:06,480
close, I just kind of want to 
reiterate to you one more time 

1447
01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:09,360
what I said earlier just so that
you can, you can know, but I, I 

1448
01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:14,360
truly mean this. 
I truly value having you and 

1449
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:18,240
even even Nana in the church and
you guys are coming in every 

1450
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:21,760
Wednesday, every Sunday. 
And you may not see it, but I'm,

1451
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:24,000
I'm a very visual person. 
My wife makes fun of me because 

1452
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:25,400
I just, I analyze a lot of 
things. 

1453
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:28,720
But when I see you make your way
up to the front almost every 

1454
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:32,880
Sunday and, and just to be 
close, that that resonates a lot

1455
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:35,320
with me. 
And I just want you guys to know

1456
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:39,200
how much like it means to me to 
see you guys there, to see you 

1457
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:42,280
being willing to be open and 
still teaching us and still 

1458
01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:46,280
working with us to let you know 
that you know, God is still 

1459
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:51,040
using you, even if you don't 
feel like it or see it because 

1460
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:53,640
we, we're watching you. 
And I just want to know how much

1461
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:56,320
I value just being able to see 
you guys there. 

1462
01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:59,680
Just be able to see you praise. 
And it, it, it always brings a 

1463
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:02,640
smile to me when we're in the 
middle of a Sunday service and 

1464
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:05,680
the preacher will say something 
and I'll hear from the back 

1465
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:08,960
about 50 yards back, I'll hear 
you from the back yelling, you 

1466
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:11,320
know, praise God, Hallelujah. 
That's right. 

1467
01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:12,880
Amen. 
And I'm like, that's pop. 

1468
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:15,600
He's still going strong. 
You know, that's, that's, that's

1469
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,800
such a valuable thing to me in a
church in general, having an 

1470
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:22,440
elder there who is a rock. 
And I, when I say a rock, I mean

1471
01:30:22,440 --> 01:30:26,480
a rock, someone that you can 
rely on, depend on and know that

1472
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:30,320
they're going to be there and 
they're going to be just what 

1473
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:32,000
you've been through. 
And I just, you know, that 

1474
01:30:32,000 --> 01:30:33,880
resonates a lot with me. 
And I just want to let you guys 

1475
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:37,080
know how much I value it. 
And I appreciate having you guys

1476
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:40,480
here and being involved in my 
life, even if it's not directly,

1477
01:30:40,480 --> 01:30:43,680
but I could still say, you know,
you guys have had an impact on 

1478
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:47,280
my life personally. 
Well, I appreciate that, Johnny,

1479
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:51,280
and I'm glad to hear you say 
that because be honest with you,

1480
01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:54,640
now I'm going, I'm just going to
be open. 

1481
01:30:56,200 --> 01:30:58,440
In fact, I'm making this secure 
the other day. 

1482
01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:01,760
I really don't know. 
I really don't know why I'm 

1483
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,760
still here because I don't feel 
like there's, you know, I don't 

1484
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:09,760
feel like there's anything that 
but if me being there can be a 

1485
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:14,320
blessing to you, maybe that's 
why God has left me here. 

1486
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:18,720
Just a baby being be a blessing 
to you because I want to be a 

1487
01:31:18,720 --> 01:31:20,800
blessing where I am. 
Absolutely. 

1488
01:31:21,440 --> 01:31:25,120
I just, I think that people, 
people need to see, need to see 

1489
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:28,840
that this life is worth it, that
you can make it to the end. 

1490
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:32,480
And every time we see you pop, 
we see what how God's going to 

1491
01:31:32,480 --> 01:31:37,080
hold us up as we go through. 
So we think we're thankful for 

1492
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:38,440
you. 
Like John said, every single 

1493
01:31:38,440 --> 01:31:39,840
week. 
I appreciate it. 

1494
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:41,520
I sure do. 
Thank you.