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All right, Thank you all for 
joining us once again and coming

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back to hear us. 
We got 2 very special guests in 

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with us today. 
We got our first father son duo 

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in the house. 
They're going to be talking. 

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We got Brother Mack testing and 
and. 

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For a set test. 
Popping back or not? 

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Gotti, Gotti, were you there? 
OK, so we start from here. 

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Hello I'm. 
Malcolm Gladwell. 

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OK, look, it's 9:00 PM. 
John, I don't know what you want

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out of us. 
OK, OK, if we stop laughing, we 

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can go. 
Sounds good, Let's get an ad 

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read and then we'll come back 
with the intro. 

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Yeah. 
All right. 

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So thank you all for joining us 
once again, this is on the 

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Lifegate podcast. 
We got Father, son Dual here 

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with us tonight. 
We got brother Mac testing and 

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brother Seth testing, and we're 
pretty excited about this. 

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We've been looking forward to 
the opportunity to speak with 

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Y'all, and thanks for being on 
the show with us. 

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Excited to be here. 
Likewise. 

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And we got Colby and Johnny as 
always. 

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You know, homeboys hold it down 
and so. 

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Thank you, Cam. 
Brother Mac, we'll go ahead and 

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get started with you. 
You come from a very, we've 

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already we, we've already talked
with pop in the podcast, but you

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come from a very rich family 
that's been in church, it's been

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serious about God and obviously 
that continues on. 

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You're blessed with a rich 
family all the way around. 

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But could you just talk to us 
about the impact that your 

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family had in your life, 
especially early on? 

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Yeah. 
So you know, anybody that was on

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the podcast before or anybody 
that listens and heard Pop or 

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has heard anything about Pop's 
testimony, kind of heard how his

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family came into it. 
So it was Pop's mom and dad that

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came into the truth out of the 
Methodist in Church of God 

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church. 
Well, Mom's side, my Papa 

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Barber, my Mimi, they also were 
in the Church of God church and 

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actually received the baptism of
the Holy Ghost in the Church of 

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God church in a little bitty 
place called Otter Creek, FL. 

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And then they went to a tent 
revival that was held in Otter 

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Creek by Brother DL Welch. 
And at that tent revival is when

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my Mimi and Papa actually got 
the revelation of the oneness of

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God. 
And so they were baptized and 

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when they told their Church of 
God family that they were 

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baptized in Jesus name, they 
were disfellowshipped from the 

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Church of God church. 
So there was a a little bit of a

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church started in Otter Creek, a
little bit of a Pentecostal 

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church started in Otter Creek. 
And from there, my grandparents 

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moved to Gainesville and there 
were several efforts to get 

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something started, a little bit 
of a difficulty getting things 

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started. 
The age that it was, there were 

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still not much integration. 
So, you know, a lot of a lot of 

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people were trying to integrate 
the churches, especially in the 

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Pentecostal faith and society 
wasn't having that at the time. 

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So it took a little about to get
it off the ground. 

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But brother by name of Brother 
Duplicity who was a pastor in 

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Miami, FL came up to help get a 
church started in Gainesville 

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and my grandfather was working 
with him. 

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Brother Duplicity helped the 
church buy land and they went 

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and ordered the material for the
first church there in 

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Gainesville and and during that 
time Brother Duplicity went back

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to Miami to finish some stuff he
was doing down there and 

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actually passed away while he 
was gone. 

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My grandfather then mortgaged 
his house to pay for the 

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material that Bert built the 
first church in Gainesville, FL.

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So on my dad's side, I've got a 
man that started and renewed 

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several churches throughout the 
Pentecostal faith. 

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And then I've got my mom's side 
that my grandfather mortgaged 

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his house to build this church 
and was a lifelong member of 

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that church until the day that 
he passed. 

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So lot of lot of rich heritage 
going on there. 

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Is it the same church that Jimmy
Tony is preaching at right now? 

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It is, yes, Sir. 
Same church. 

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I don't know if it's still 
there, but there used to be a 

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little glass case that had my 
grandfather's hat that he was 

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notorious for wearing. 
So, you know, when you, when you

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think about that, I feel blessed
that my dad's side of the 

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family, of course, was what I 
like to call the Levitical side.

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It's all ministers. 
My mom's side of the family, my,

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my, her. 
Her dad had several brothers 

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that were pastors, ministers. 
He never was. 

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He was just an elder, secretary 
and treasurer. 

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But most faithful man I've ever 
known. 

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So. 
So growing up, what was the 

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influence of those people in 
your life? 

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I mean, you grew up around, like
you said, such rich heritage. 

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You know what I mean? 
Like you came out, obviously 

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you're, you know, your father 
was, was a pastor. 

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So what was your influence 
growing up from from these 

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people? 
Well, I mean, church was 

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everything, you know, and, and 
there was, there was a time in 

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my life that, that that didn't 
mean a lot to me. 

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But when I was younger, I mean, 
there, there wasn't ever a 

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question of what are we doing 
today? 

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If it was Sunday, we were going 
to church and then we were going

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to church Sunday night and then 
we were going to church 

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Wednesday night and then we were
going to prayer meeting and we 

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were going to up to the church 
on Saturdays to help make peanut

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brittle or help lay block for 
the new church building. 

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I mean, everything in life 
revolved around what was going 

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on at the church. 
And so church was a vital, vital

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factor in our everyday life, 
especially, you know, as a kid, 

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dad being a pastor and assistant
pastor, you know, of course we 

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had the conversations about how 
we had to act and needed to act 

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and not be an embarrassment to 
the church. 

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And, you know, those kind of 
things, which, you know, made it

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a little tough sometimes. 
But yeah, I mean, even though I 

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spent several years backslidden 
since I've been back in church, 

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it's not a, it's not a question 
of when it whether or not I'm 

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going to go to church, when it's
time for church. 

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It's not a, it's not an option. 
It's it's my duty, you know, so 

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that that influenced me greatly.
Do you mind diving into that a 

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little bit? 
I'm when I've had a period where

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I walked away from church as 
well. 

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And I think a lot of us that 
haven't walked that path our 

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entire life and have strayed in 
different ways. 

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I would like to hear that story 
of a you walking away and kind 

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of turning your back on faith 
for a little while. 

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And then what brought you back 
and what was that like? 

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So I try not to, I try not to go
too deep, but I, I think the 

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first time that I ever remember 
feeling the presence of God was 

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in a, in a church in Baghdad, 
Florida that my grandfather 

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pastored and my dad was the 
assistant. 

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It was an old white church 
building. 

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I think it used to be some kind 
of store or something, but it 

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was two-story. 
It was scary after dark. 

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And if you were left in there by
yourself, like when you fall 

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asleep under the Pew and your 
parents go out to eat and then 

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they forget that you're there, 
you don't know if any of that 

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that's ever happened to you 
guys, but it's definitely 

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happened to me. 
I think when it happened to them

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it was on purpose. 
It's very possible. 

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Just for reference, Johnny was 
pointing at Cam, not Colby. 

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But I was probably about 8 years
old. 

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You know, I don't know about you
guys, but probably wasn't paying

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a lot of attention. 
But when the altar call was 

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given, I feel the Spirit of God 
just thinking about it. 

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But when the altar call was 
given, my grandfather had a very

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powerful way to give an altar 
call, very convicting way wasn't

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harsh. 
He could be harsh outside of 

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church, but he wasn't harsh with
the altar call. 

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It was very, I don't know, it 
was beckoning and I just felt 

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that and I, I didn't feel 
comfortable going to the altar. 

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My mom was playing the piano. 
I remember going to the to the 

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piano and just just weeping 
before the Lord. 

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I guess that's probably the 
first time I repented. 

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I felt the need to repent. 
Wasn't baptized until a couple 

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years later. 
I was about 10 years old, 

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baptized in Santa Rosa Bay, down
there in brackish water. 

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So that's what makes me special.
But anyway, the so I, I knew I 

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needed to be baptized. 
I think I understood it fully 

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why, why I needed to be 
baptized. 

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Felt like that was the right 
thing to do. 

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Didn't get the Holy Ghost until 
I was 12. 

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And that was when we were in 
Gainesville. 

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We had moved to Gainesville for 
a little while to, to help with 

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my grandfather who was sick. 
And so we lived there. 

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And that's where I ended up 
receiving the Holy Ghost in the 

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same church that my grandfather 
had mortgaged his home to build 

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that church. 
And brother Arnold was the 

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pastor at that time, shortly 
thereafter. 

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I mean, I don't know, I could go
back and say I was a lot of the 

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pressure of peer pressure in 
school was very multicultural 

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big school that I wasn't used to
in Gainesville. 

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I really, really loved playing 
football. 

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I was fairly good at it. 
And so it came down to, I think 

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I, I think one thing that 
happened is I had to make a 

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decision was I'm going to pour 
myself into. 

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And selfishly, I decided I 
wanted to pour myself into 

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football rather than, rather 
than church. 

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And, and I, and quite honestly, 
growing up as a pastor's son and

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grandfather, as a pastor and 
preacher, and I had this sense 

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that I didn't know that I could 
live the life that I needed to 

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live. 
And looking back on it, I 

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wouldn't have admitted it back 
then. 

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But looking back on it, I knew I
had a call to preach. 

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I knew that that was part of 
what I was going to be doing if 

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I, if I did this. 
And I didn't want to do it. 

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I didn't want to take the take 
the aggravation that my scene, 

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my dad and my grandfather have 
to deal with. 

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I didn't want to have to deal 
with that. 

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I still don't feel called a 
pastor. 

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I've never felt a call to 
pastor, but I know that's that's

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what caused me to kind of 
hesitate. 

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And I hesitated just long enough
that I opened the door to sin 

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and, and, and I just went all in
and didn't want to hear anything

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about church. 
I got angry about it, bitter 

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about it, blamed everybody, you 
know, like we do. 

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But at the end of the day, it 
was just because I didn't want 

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to submit my life to that. 
So for the next several years, 

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probably 13 years, I didn't live
for God. 

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And that wasn't long after I 
received the Holy Ghost and I, 

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we had moved to Tennessee. 
Dad was assistant pastor of a 

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church in Tennessee, and that's 
where I ended up graduating high

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school. 
I met my late wife. 

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We were married. 
We never discussed anything 

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about church. 
She knew I was Pentecostal. 

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00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,560
I knew she didn't have much 
church background. 

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We, we weren't worried about 
that. 

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That wasn't a thought, you know,
We were just in love and happy 

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to be together and looking 
forward to our life together. 

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I will say that we were true to 
one another and the time that we

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were married before we got in 
church and went to church one 

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Sunday just to get my dad to 
shut up and leave me alone 

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because he alluded to it. 
I didn't want to correct him. 

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But Seth was actually about a 
year old when dad really started

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putting the pressure on me about
I'm going to come get him if 

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you're not going to take him to 
church. 

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And so I talked Donna into going
in to going to church on a 

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Father's Day. 
We went to church on Father's 

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Day. 
We got done with church, we went

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home, she didn't say anything. 
The next Sunday, she woke me up 

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00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:57,240
and said, hey, we, we need to 
get ready to go to church. 

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And I said, no, I told you we 
don't have to worry about that, 

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00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,080
you know, and, and she said, you
don't understand. 

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00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:05,960
I've been looking for this my 
whole life. 

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And I mean, of course I'm 
looking up at God. 

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Like, man, what'd you do to me? 
You know, you've been working 

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this the whole time. 
And so, I mean, that was in 

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1996, 19 June of 1996. 
And so it took me a few 

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00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:32,160
services, but we were in a 
little country church in 

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Carthage, TN country in 
Pentecostal church. 

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00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,680
And I remember walking to the 
altar and I remember saying, all

224
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:43,320
right, God, you say you're 
merciful. 

225
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,160
They say you're merciful. 
I've done a lot. 

226
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,560
Let's see, I didn't even make it
to the front man. 

227
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:55,120
And I fell on my face and didn't
feel anything but but love. 

228
00:13:55,320 --> 00:14:00,040
I didn't feel any condemnation 
any, any about time you get your

229
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,160
act together. 
And thankfully I was in a little

230
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,160
country church where everybody 
was just so happy that that I 

231
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,800
had come back to God, that I 
didn't get any judgement. 

232
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,080
You know, all the stuff that I 
feared didn't happen. 

233
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,560
So I like to say, and I've told 
Seth this and I've told all the 

234
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:22,360
kids this, that when I got the 
Holy Ghost, I think I was 

235
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,520
infatuated with God. 
At that moment. 

236
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,000
I fell in love and I've been in 
love ever since. 

237
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,600
Now I've had my times, you know,
where, where doubt and fear and 

238
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,520
everything creeps in. 
But that was I accepted my call 

239
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,040
to preach in 1997. 
And so that's, that's kind of 

240
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,400
how I how I came back and I 
don't know if I clarified 

241
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,320
everything about what you were 
asking me or not, but probably 

242
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:52,840
took a lot longer than you 
expected. 

243
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,000
No, that's that's exactly what I
was hoping for. 

244
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:55,760
That was pretty good. 
Can I? 

245
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,640
Ask you something when you were,
I'm sorry, can I ask you 

246
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,320
something? 
Whenever you were away from God,

247
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,280
did you ever have any moments 
where you felt like God was 

248
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,000
tugging at your heart? 
You know what I mean? 

249
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,880
Like you felt like God was like,
right there, 'cause you know, a 

250
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,880
lot of people struggle with the 
idea of an act of God, you know 

251
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,280
what I mean? 
Was there any moments where you 

252
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,760
just felt like God was calling 
you home? 

253
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,640
Yeah, that it happened way more 
than I wanted it to. 

254
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:25,280
I would run into people on the 
street that I wanted to be mad 

255
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,840
at because they were from the 
church and I couldn't because 

256
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:30,880
they were, they were just such 
good people. 

257
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:36,320
And I've been in, I mean, I 
don't, I don't want to get too 

258
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,440
graphic about it, but I've been 
in bars and felt the presence of

259
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:47,600
God had to get up and walk out, 
you know, just I knew I didn't 

260
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,200
need to be there. 
My buddies all saying, where are

261
00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,120
you going? 
I said I can't be here right 

262
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,800
now, you know, and, and argued 
with God on the way home. 

263
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,800
What are you doing? 
I told you to leave me alone, 

264
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:04,840
you know, And so I know it 
sounds crazy that you would, 

265
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,600
some people would say that I was
tempting God. 

266
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,000
I don't know. 
I'm just, yeah. 

267
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,120
But I, I used to get in 
arguments with my buddies, all 

268
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,520
my buddies, you know, we're of 
different denominal faiths. 

269
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:23,840
And so they would want to start 
talking about salvation at the 

270
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,520
worst possible times. 
And we would get to talking 

271
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,400
about it and, and and then I 
would make them all mad and 

272
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,960
they'd all want to fight me 
because I was telling them 

273
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,280
they're all going to hell. 
You know, I didn't have any kind

274
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:42,440
of savvy at all, you know? 
But you know, you don't do it my

275
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:43,080
way. 
You're not. 

276
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,560
You're not, right. 
So yeah, definitely felt it all 

277
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,040
the time. 
We just did a sat down with the 

278
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,440
hyphen boys and something that 
you mentioned that they 

279
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,320
mentioned as well that I could 
relate to was people don't 

280
00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:01,440
realize just how slippery or 
slopes and is where you, you 

281
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,000
take one small step and, and you
think this is not bad. 

282
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,480
And then you take another step 
and like, we're good. 

283
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:09,200
Then you take another step and 
then another step. 

284
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,480
Before you long, you realize I'm
a mile away from where I 

285
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,280
started. 
And I think it's, it's 

286
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,200
interesting to me that it's it 
that's never changed even from 

287
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:22,720
when you were going through all 
that versus when I went through 

288
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:24,680
all of that versus when those 
young guys went through it. 

289
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,480
It was the same thing. 
It was you, you you see the edge

290
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,600
of the Cliff and you're like, 
I'm not going to go get close to

291
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:31,560
that. 
I'm not, I'm not going to do 

292
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:33,360
that. 
I'm I'm smart enough not to do 

293
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,400
that. 
But before long you done stepped

294
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,400
yourself down to where now 
you're hanging off the edge of 

295
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,280
the Cliff because you didn't 
think you'd go that far. 

296
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,720
But every little thing got you 
there. 

297
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,320
How do you think that was was, 
is that how it was for you in 

298
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,160
that process? 
Like you'd probably didn't just 

299
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,280
immediately go get the Holy 
Ghost, walk out the door and be 

300
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:52,640
like, yeah, I'm about to head to
the bar. 

301
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,280
You obviously you, you, you 
gradually get that. 

302
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,160
So that way there is there a way
that you could look back and 

303
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,720
think maybe I maybe I could have
not done that or or or how did 

304
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,760
that affect you? 
How do you look back on that, 

305
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,560
that process of how that 
happened? 

306
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,520
Yeah, I definitely believe it 
starts with opening a door. 

307
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:13,880
That's kind of the way I 
describe it. 

308
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,680
We open doors sometimes that we 
we have no idea what we're 

309
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:22,440
letting in when we open that 
door and when we and basically, 

310
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:29,480
no matter what it what Ave. it 
is, no matter which way we 

311
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:36,360
degrade, it's it's still fleshly
desires that cause us to do 

312
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:37,560
that. 
It's still my arrogance and 

313
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,800
still my pride. 
I'll debate with anybody about 

314
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:43,840
that. 
It it all goes back to that. 

315
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,440
It's it's me deciding that this 
is what I want. 

316
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:53,760
And when I open myself up to 
that, then then I start 

317
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,920
justifying within myself that 
something that I once thought 

318
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:04,320
was out of bounds is now OK. 
And it's, it's basically just a,

319
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,760
the base form of humanism is 
what it is. 

320
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,880
But we open the door to that. 
And then yes, it takes us much 

321
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,520
further than we, there were 
certain things that there were 

322
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,040
certain lines that I didn't 
cross. 

323
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,160
I was still, I was still not a 
thief. 

324
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,360
I was still not, I was still not
going to put a needle in my arm.

325
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:29,560
You know, there were certain 
things that just, I think out of

326
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:35,760
fear I wasn't going to do. 
But pretty much anything else 

327
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:37,480
during those times, all bets 
were off. 

328
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:41,520
And, and I think that it's 
because we get caught up in our 

329
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,240
own self and then and then it 
feeds our ego. 

330
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,640
I mean, you do some things and 
then you get accolades for us, 

331
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,760
just like football, something as
simple as football. 

332
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,800
I'm not going to sit here and 
say that playing football is a 

333
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,600
sin, but if I devote myself to 
that more than I devote myself 

334
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,680
to God, then yes, I'm sending it
becomes idolatry. 

335
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,600
And really, when you're good at 
football and you get praise for 

336
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,760
it, it it it builds you up. 
Yeah, it's it. 

337
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,520
It becomes self worship. 
Yeah, I mean, that's just 

338
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,160
something like I said, I you see
it and and it happens with most 

339
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,360
all people that you hear when 
they talk about they walked away

340
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:21,400
or anyway, man, like that's how 
it was for me. 

341
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,640
It was, you make this one 
decision and at first you're 

342
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,000
like, you justify it. 
It's the perfect way to say it. 

343
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,840
Like for me it was like, and 
this ain't wow. 

344
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,960
That wasn't that bad. 
I don't feel that bad about 

345
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,840
doing that or whatever the case 
may be. 

346
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,160
And then that becomes the normal
and then there's the next step. 

347
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,960
And I just think that's 
something that I've, you know, 

348
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,560
with this being here, it's like 
I realized, well, that's 

349
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,840
something that not only does it 
happen now, but it happened. 

350
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,120
It's happened all throughout 
time. 

351
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,880
That's something that I think 
people should, should look at 

352
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,240
and be like, well, that's why my
dad said I was. 

353
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,120
He always wanted to learn from 
other people's mistakes. 

354
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,360
It's just crazy how we always 
find a way to make our own 

355
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,320
mistakes at the end of the day 
and then slowly work our way 

356
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,760
down. 
So it's just, it's just that's 

357
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,920
one way that I was able to, I 
can relate with that, you know? 

358
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:09,040
Yeah, and I think one, one 
thing, especially for for the 

359
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,720
youth like you mentioned and and
all of us, it's like, I feel 

360
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,760
like our society today, we're 
fighting it where we promote 

361
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,880
that it's all about 
individualism. 

362
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,720
You know, we don't, we don't 
even really care about 

363
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,400
communities. 
Forget the church. 

364
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,320
We're talking about society as a
whole. 

365
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,160
We're, we're a Society of 
individualism and, and it's a 

366
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,440
lot easier for Christians to 
fall down that path. 

367
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,560
I think I certainly did been 
victim to that myself. 

368
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,400
And I think in in some way we 
all face that at some point and 

369
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,160
have to overcome it one way or 
another. 

370
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,160
So whenever you read in the 
Bible, Brother Mac, you read. 

371
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,080
Nothing can separate you from 
the love of Jesus. 

372
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:52,400
How does that resonate with you?
It's there's there's truth like,

373
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,360
you know, some people may not 
understand it the way I 

374
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,080
understand it. 
And I don't I don't mean that in

375
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,840
an arrogant way, but I tried 
every way to separate myself and

376
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,600
God didn't give up on me and 
wouldn't give up on me. 

377
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:13,120
So, you know, now granted, I've 
always been taught and I 

378
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:18,760
wouldn't want to chance it. 
There is a line that that you 

379
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,600
can cross. 
And I believe when, when my late

380
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,480
wife said we're going to church,
that was a line in the sand. 

381
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,080
That was a that was a time that 
God said, all right, boy, I'm 

382
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:37,160
open this door one more time. 
And I mean, I was already locked

383
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,360
in on, on my marriage. 
You know, I mean, I wasn't going

384
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:45,760
anywhere on that. 
So I was like, OK, all right, 

385
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,520
let's do this. 
One thing I want to get your, 

386
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,960
get your, your, what happened 
with you, but I'd like to get it

387
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,960
from everybody else here too. 
But another thing we talked 

388
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,440
about on Monday with the guys 
was that, that feeling, that 

389
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,600
initial feeling of when you, for
them, it was either getting the 

390
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,160
Holy Ghost or for you, it would 
be when you finally came back. 

391
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,600
You fall, you fall on your face 
and you start just weeping. 

392
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,280
But there's, there's a feeling 
that you can't really describe 

393
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,160
it, but it almost, I, I 
described it as like just 

394
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,360
weights coming off my shoulder. 
How would you describe that 

395
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:18,280
feeling you had while you were 
while you were giving yourself 

396
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,520
to God and then when you first 
walked out after that service 

397
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,160
and everything has changed, 
What's what's the difference of 

398
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,680
the feeling on your shoulders 
there? 

399
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,320
So yeah, freedom for sure. 
It's crazy though, a lot of 

400
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:37,640
people don't think this way. 
So raised, raised UPC, raised 

401
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:42,200
Pentecostal, strict Pentecostal 
mom and dad weren't dogmatic 

402
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,840
about it, you know, but some of 
the churches were a little tough

403
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:51,240
about it. 
And so even even after God did 

404
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:56,720
that, even after I, you know, 
felt that love and fell in love 

405
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,720
with God and knew that that's 
what I wanted to do, there was 

406
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,200
still a part of my flesh that 
wanted to fight it. 

407
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:11,080
And so when, when I started 
talking to Donna about, you 

408
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,240
know, church, she was like, what
happened? 

409
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,720
And I was explaining to her 
about the Holy Ghost and stuff. 

410
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:23,640
And, and she said, well, I want 
that, you know, I, I want that. 

411
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,360
And I said, well, now I want you
to understand something. 

412
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:31,800
If we're going to do this, you 
know, you got to do this, this, 

413
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,040
this, this, and this. 
And, you know, and, and at the 

414
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,120
time, I was just, I was just 
doing what I thought I needed 

415
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:42,080
to, to warn her, you know, 
protect her. 

416
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,440
But in actuality, when I look 
back, I was trying to talk her 

417
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,880
out of it because that would 
have given me an out, you know 

418
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,360
what I mean? 
So as, as great as it felt and 

419
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:56,640
as delivered as I was and as 
free as I was in that moment, as

420
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,560
soon as I walked away from there
the next day, I'm trying to 

421
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,360
figure out a way to wiggle out 
of this and what it all boils 

422
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:06,760
down to. 
And it's, it's the reason it's 

423
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,920
difficult is because it's all 
about submission. 

424
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:15,880
And let's be honest, I mean, I 
was 2526 years old. 

425
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,400
I didn't want to submit, you 
know, And so I wanted her to 

426
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,120
know that, hey, you don't have 
to submit if you don't do this. 

427
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:26,680
And, and of course, at that time
she was like, I'm not doing any 

428
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,480
of that, you know, And then in 
prayer and earnest prayer about 

429
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,640
it, it was like God said, Hey, 
why don't you let me deal with 

430
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,160
all that? 
You just, you just be a good 

431
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,960
example of faithfulness. 
Let me deal with all that stuff.

432
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:49,280
And so I'd love to say that 
immediately I got everything 

433
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,920
straight. 
But man, I'm still figuring 

434
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:57,160
stuff out, you know, And you 
know, I was a young minister. 

435
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,600
Wasn't long after that that I 
knew we were called to 

436
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,520
Greenville to help with the 
church up there and got up to 

437
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,440
Greenville. 
Man, I'm just a young minister 

438
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,440
and brother Danny Livingston put
all faith and confidence in me 

439
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,840
and, and had me as his outreach 
director and then eventually 

440
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,520
youth minister as well, because 
Corey Mccool would move back to 

441
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,280
Michigan and, and he had been 
the youth minister. 

442
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,720
So here I am, you know, just 
restored a couple years and 

443
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,560
Danny Livingston has put all 
kind of faith and trust in me. 

444
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,320
And I'm still pretty arrogant 
and, you know, judgmental and I 

445
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,360
mean, and, but I learned a lot, 
man, learned a lot. 

446
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:39,880
So I hope I answered that 
question. 

447
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,560
Yeah, I'll just, I'll weigh in 
on that a little bit. 

448
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,760
I think, I think to an extent, 
you know, we get this kind of 

449
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,960
idea of what the Holy Ghost is 
and sometimes we almost put like

450
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:56,080
a cinematic view of this like 
once in a lifetime experience 

451
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,320
that from that moment on, 
everything changes. 

452
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,960
And, and while that's 
definitively true, but to, to 

453
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,680
dad's point, there's like this 
progression that happens. 

454
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,760
And then like, as you think 
about it, we're, we're kind of 

455
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,400
reminded that it's the new 
birth. 

456
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,360
And it's like, hold on. 
So that the Holy Ghost is really

457
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,400
just this, a lot of people have 
this big long road leading up to

458
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,000
the reception of the Holy Ghost.
And it's like now you've arrived

459
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,080
in Christianity, when in 
actuality you've arrived at 

460
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,040
being born again. 
And it's, it's this kind of 

461
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,040
starting point of, of all this 
new revelation of what life in 

462
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,920
Christ can actually be. 
So it's kind of unique. 

463
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,520
My Holy Ghost story is, is 
significantly younger. 

464
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,160
So I'll kind of put this in two 
ways. 

465
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,880
I was 7 when I received the Holy
Ghost is at a children's rally. 

466
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,160
So in terms of like this radical
life transformation, not a whole

467
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,360
lot changed. 
I was in a, a parent, I was in a

468
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,720
home where my parents were in 
ministry and and I was going to 

469
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,480
be going to church all the time.
So I can, I can honestly say 

470
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,600
that pre and post Holy Ghost, 
nothing radically shifted in 

471
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,840
terms of my experience at 
church. 

472
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,200
I was in church as frequently as
I was before, you know, and, and

473
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,920
we were involved as much as we 
were before. 

474
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,720
But then I, I do think even when
you get the Holy Ghost when 

475
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,520
you're younger, you do have a 
point kind of later in life, 

476
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,480
maybe as you're turning to 
adulthood, that there is this 

477
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,120
kind of line in the sand moment 
where God starts to deal with 

478
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:21,440
you about what you're going to 
be doing in life and, and if 

479
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,680
you're really committed or not. 
And it's not just, you know, 

480
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,000
this Holy Ghost moment where you
were born again, but it's 

481
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,400
actually saying, OK, you you've 
had some years to grow now and 

482
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,560
I'm going to start putting some 
things on you and some 

483
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,600
expectations on you. 
How are you going to respond to 

484
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,520
that? 
And at and at that point, 

485
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,840
there's this real like shift of 
am I going to go in this 

486
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,960
direction or am I becoming, you 
know, am I going to become more 

487
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,120
passive in my relationship with 
God? 

488
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,640
So that, that moment for me was 
way later into my 20s where 

489
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,240
ministry is, is kind of starting
to be something that I'm 

490
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,960
thinking about. 
I knew I had the call to preach 

491
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,160
for a long time, But you know 
what? 

492
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,840
Now it's, you know, it's, it's 
really kind of getting serious 

493
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,840
about, OK, you may have some 
opportunities to actually be 

494
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,440
involved in ministry and, and 
the church may need you to step 

495
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,760
into leadership roles. 
Are you ready to live up to what

496
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,600
that actually means? 
So that kind of line in the sand

497
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,440
moment is, is the real decision 
there. 

498
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,280
So I, I, I do think, you know, 
the Holy Ghost is as special as 

499
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,320
it is. 
So much is placed on the 

500
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,640
emphasis of, of getting that. 
And you almost get this once 

501
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,000
saved, always saved attitude of 
like, well, I got the Holy Ghost

502
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,000
and it's like, yeah, that's 
great. 

503
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,480
But that's really the, the 
starting point of our 

504
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,240
relationship with Jesus as we 
know it today, because there's 

505
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,640
going to continually be 
progression and added, you know,

506
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,560
things that God wants to put on 
you as, as you're tried and 

507
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,600
tested and proven to be able to 
handle those things. 

508
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,520
So different, different story 
entirely because of the, the kid

509
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,320
reception of the Holy Ghost was 
like not a lot changed. 

510
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,120
I went to church again, that's 
what happened. 

511
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,200
But I do think continually as 
you progress and grow and God, 

512
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,960
there's more that gets put on 
you and it's still that active 

513
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,440
response to as God calls or are 
you willing to respond and and 

514
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,440
how does that go? 
Just a just a couple thoughts on

515
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,320
that. 
Yeah, I, I, I love that. 

516
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,080
And I think it's difficult, 
especially kids being raised in 

517
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,240
church, similar paths, except 
that I walked away, you know, 

518
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,760
and it is difficult with that 
because you get the Holy Ghost 

519
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,760
and we always are like, oh, the 
Holy Spirit entered my life and 

520
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,000
that's it. 
I'm good. 

521
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,280
But then there is that moment in
adulthood where you really got 

522
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,200
to make a decision and it's got 
to become your own. 

523
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,640
And I'll keep it brief. 
But our stories, Mack, It's 

524
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,480
crazy how our attitudes so much 
alike in that 'cause even when 

525
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,200
we came back to life Gate and 
we're willing to give it a shot.

526
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,760
And it is funny too, because my 
wife Caitlin is a lot of the 

527
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,880
reason when we were in Nashville
and everything. 

528
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,600
She's the reason we went up to 
church at First Church in 

529
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,120
Nashville. 
The few handful of times we did 

530
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,920
because I did not want to. 
I fought her on that so hard 

531
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,120
every time we got back down here
and I didn't want to hear it at 

532
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,560
all. 
And I could give you a list a 

533
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,960
mile long of why we're not going
to. 

534
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,200
And then you go to that altar. 
And the crazy thing about Jesus 

535
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,520
is it's all about him and he's 
all about you, you know, and all

536
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,480
the problems I've ever had were,
man, that had nothing to do with

537
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,480
Jesus. 
And, and that's what got me back

538
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,640
was all right, well, I'm going 
to focus on Jesus. 

539
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,840
Pretty good thing to focus on. 
I think I'd recommend it, you 

540
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,800
know, and that's what I'm still 
doing now. 

541
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,320
You know, I'm like, it's so easy
for me when you grow up from our

542
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,600
point of view as a pastor's kid 
and a lot of the veil is 

543
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,560
untorned and you see the behind 
the scenes and some of it can be

544
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,240
ugly, whatever appreciated by 
that. 

545
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,640
But at the end of the day, we're
all people. 

546
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,040
No matter if you're a minister 
or not, we're all work walk in 

547
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,840
our walk with Christ each day. 
Everybody's going to fall and 

548
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,760
make mistakes. 
And when we're focusing on 

549
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,160
Jesus, that's what got me back 
was that love that overwhelms 

550
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,720
you no matter what you do, no 
matter how much you don't want 

551
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,560
to hear it. 
It just completely surrounds 

552
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,560
your life and is willing to work
with you. 

553
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,400
That spirit continuing and and 
so for the rebirth for me, I 

554
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,880
think game at 27 and, and I'm 
still in that, I guess, you 

555
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,720
know, to me, I'm still taking 
baby steps a little bit at a 

556
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,600
time, you know, but he's still 
working on me. 

557
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,680
I would like to. 
Hear a perspective from each of 

558
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,640
you, OK. 
And start with Brother Mack, 

559
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,760
obviously, because that's kind 
of where we finish with the 

560
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,560
testimony right there or we were
talking about, but what is the 

561
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,080
influence of wanting? 
To be there for your. 

562
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,520
Children, how that influence 
your perspective walking and 

563
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,280
then I would like to hear it 
from each of you, how that 

564
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,320
influences your perspective. 
OK, but we'll start with brother

565
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,280
Matt. 
So so basically. 

566
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,480
How did me want to live the life
that I needed to live because of

567
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,600
my kids? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

568
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:57,680
When I came back to the Lord and
we started working toward, you 

569
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,520
know, like Seth said, that was 
the beginning. 

570
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,720
You know what I mean, Brother 
Hano says it's we're, we're a 

571
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,800
tapestry that God's continuing 
to paint. 

572
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:11,640
And, you know, that's, that's 
that's just such a rich way to 

573
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,400
look at it. 
But it's, it's so true. 

574
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,760
Love that guy, by the way. 
Yeah. 

575
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,960
Shout out, Brother Hano. 
Yeah, shout out Brother Hano, 

576
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,040
come see us. 
But anyway. 

577
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:29,880
I started feeling. 
The call to preach shortly after

578
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:35,480
coming back to the Lord accepted
it about a year after and but 

579
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:41,720
every decision after that was 
how's this going to affect my 

580
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:47,240
kids and their perspective? 
And then, you know, I like to, I

581
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,800
like to think that, you know, 
when we were in the middle of 

582
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,160
all of this stuff that we were 
doing around here in the 

583
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,960
beginning, I was here quite a 
bit and then my work took me 

584
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:06,200
away a little bit. 
But Seth was up here probably as

585
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:11,360
much as you guys were. 
And, and I think that's because 

586
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,239
when we were in Greenville, 
Tennessee, you know, he's six 

587
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,719
years old when we moved there, I
think two years after we got 

588
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,639
there, we started a building 
program. 

589
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,639
And so he's 8910 years old, 
Michaela's a baby, so she's at 

590
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:31,560
home with Donna. 
And I'm taking Seth with me and 

591
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,360
he's playing Hot Wheels in the 
sawdust, you know, while we're 

592
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,920
working on church building and 
grabbing nails or screws or 

593
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,239
whatever that somebody might 
tell him to go grab. 

594
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,600
So, yeah, the influence of 
thinking about those decisions. 

595
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,159
And I'll say this is this is 
getting a little further in my 

596
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:55,600
testimony, but one of my kids 
ask me. 

597
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:04,800
I don't know, Two months ago. 
Maybe a month ago, what's one of

598
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,400
your biggest regrets? 
What would you do differently if

599
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,840
you could do things differently?
And I said, well, I don't like 

600
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,080
to think about changing anything
because I'm pretty happy with 

601
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,760
where I am, you know? 
Yeah, there have been some tough

602
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,760
stuff that I've dealt with, but 
still pretty happy with where I 

603
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,840
am. 
And and so, but every decision 

604
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,760
that you make, you know, 
everything. 

605
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,400
Yeah. 
They're always looking at you, 

606
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:35,720
man. 
They're always watching you. 

607
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,800
They're always seeing how you're
going to handle situations where

608
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,920
epistles seen in red of men. 
But who's watching us more than 

609
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,640
our kids? 
Nobody, you know, they see us 

610
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,480
when nobody else sees us. 
I mean, nobody's seen me 

611
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,440
Probably matter than my kids, 
you know what I mean? 

612
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,360
Yeah, maybe Kobe and Cam. 
I mean, he is virtually like a 

613
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,240
son. 
To you by this point, so that's 

614
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:02,000
true and you've all. 
But adopted him so. 

615
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,200
But absolutely. 
It's, it's a, it's a big factor.

616
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:10,760
And we should, we should let 
that weight of responsibility 

617
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,840
drive our decisions more. 
But it should, it should drive 

618
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,880
our decisions more. 
Yeah. 

619
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,360
I'm going to try not to be a 
total SAP when it comes to 

620
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,040
talking about kids. 
It just preface it's, it's such 

621
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,400
a blessing to be a dad just in 
general. 

622
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,000
You know, we've, we've got 2 
now. 

623
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,880
So it's, it's, it's really eye 
opening, like the, the whole 

624
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,200
miracle of, of life and birth. 
And then you just start seeing 

625
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,480
them mature and it's, it's just 
incredible to witness. 

626
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:46,600
But when, when Maverick was 
first born, I, I had a little 

627
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:53,280
bit of a not, not a doubt or a 
fear, but it was, it was more 

628
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,240
like an internalized discussion 
with God in my personal prayer 

629
00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:01,960
time where I was a bit worried 
about how my life and dedication

630
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:06,000
and ministry would hinder or 
hurt his childhood experience. 

631
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,440
And it was just one of those 
things where it was like, OK, 

632
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,160
is, is this going to be a 
situation where Maverick is 

633
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,520
always wondering where dad is 
because dad is doing something 

634
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:20,760
at the church or dad is, is over
at so and so's house because 

635
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,720
they need something or, or, or 
what is it? 

636
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,320
What is it going to be? 
And, and I had a little bit of 

637
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,360
like, I don't know if it was a, 
you know, just a personal doubt 

638
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,160
that I wouldn't be able to 
manage that or, or handle that. 

639
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,240
And I, I was really kind of 
intentional with prayer. 

640
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:38,480
Like God, show me what I need 
out of this because I'm a bit 

641
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,880
conflicted because you, you've 
made me a father. 

642
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,240
And I know that I have some 
responsibilities that come with 

643
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:46,360
that, but I also know that 
you've called me into ministry 

644
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,960
and I know that those two things
are supposed to coexist. 

645
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,160
And, and I need to know what 
that means and how that's 

646
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,040
balanced. 
And, and God gradually began to 

647
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,840
reveal to me that it's entirely 
possible that Maverick may not 

648
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:04,320
have the typical childhood. 
And it, it, it's, it's going to 

649
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,000
be one of those things where 
Maverick is a kid who may spend 

650
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,920
significantly more time at the 
church than some other kids do 

651
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:13,280
because of who his parents are. 
And, and I don't mean that in 

652
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,200
any kind of arrogant way, but 
what God began to show me was 

653
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:22,240
that he designed and made me and
called me to what he's called me

654
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:25,600
to do. 
And then he entrusted me, for 

655
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,240
whatever reason, I earned that 
with another life to raise, 

656
00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:31,440
knowing the life that he had 
already called me to. 

657
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,480
And, and God really began to 
kind of change my mindset on the

658
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,040
fact that, yeah, Maverick's 
childhood and Isaac's childhood 

659
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,440
are not going to look typical. 
But at the same time, they're 

660
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,800
going to have a, a, a radically 
different opportunity to see 

661
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,240
aspects of church life similar 
to, to the what I actually grew 

662
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:53,640
up with. 
Then then other kids will and 

663
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,680
and God really began to to deal 
with me about the fact that he's

664
00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,640
entrusted me in the life that 
he's asking me to live to raise 

665
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,160
two boys and, and I'm blessed to
be able to do that. 

666
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:05,560
And it all kind of came to a 
head. 

667
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,360
We were we're at a district 
youth convention. 

668
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,440
This was this past April. 
We had already moved to 

669
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,640
Massachusetts and Amber was 
asked to sing. 

670
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,960
So I was sitting in the in the 
seats with the boys and Amber 

671
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,600
was pregnant at the time, so she
was not going to be singing an 

672
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:22,440
altar call. 
It was a miracle that she had 

673
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,760
sang the three songs already. 
She was extremely out of breath 

674
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,200
and she was her feet were 
hurting and we didn't want to go

675
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,920
into labor two months early. 
So she was given leave on not 

676
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,320
having to do altar call. 
But as altar call is going on, 

677
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,160
I'm, I'm kind of wanting to move
toward the altar and I'm working

678
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,800
the altars a bit, kind of laying
hands on some young people and 

679
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,120
just being able to pray with 
others. 

680
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,680
And I look up and I'm trying not
to get jerked up about this, but

681
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,280
I look up and Maverick is 
actually kneeling at the altar. 

682
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,240
He's only two at this time. 
And I'm like, what, What's going

683
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:58,920
on? 
I later find out that Amber, who

684
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,200
had who had kind of got up and 
she was praying with some 

685
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,200
people. 
She walks over to me and she 

686
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,120
said that Maverick wanted to be 
like dad and go to the altar. 

687
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,960
So it was like. 
OK, I, I got you. 

688
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,640
God, you've, you've shown me 
what this is all about And and I

689
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,080
was obviously thrilled to, to 
see that. 

690
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,680
So it's one of those things now 
where Maverick knows, you know, 

691
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,280
it's Sunday morning. 
Do you know where we're going? 

692
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,640
Well, we're going to church. 
Oh, we're going to go praise 

693
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,360
Jesus. 
And it's like, OK, I'm glad 

694
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,400
you're, you're getting that. 
And I'm sure Isaac, Lord 

695
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,680
willing, should, should the Lord
Terry will, will have the same 

696
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,960
experience. 
But it is, there was an immense 

697
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,240
pressure about it. 
I, I don't think it would be 

698
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:38,360
naive to say that that doesn't 
exist. 

699
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,680
But to Daddy's point, we, we 
really should be more cognizant 

700
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,920
of how our actions do affect 
what our children are going to 

701
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,920
be witnessing because it's 
because Maverick witnesses the 

702
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,840
good things, you know, that he's
able to say, I should go to the 

703
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,920
altar. 
Conversely, if he witnessed me, 

704
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,360
Lord forbid, talking bad about 
our pastor or talking bad about 

705
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,800
somebody at the church, guess 
what he's going to grow up 

706
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,040
doing. 
So to that end, even in 

707
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,640
ministry, we have to be 
cognizant about the little eyes 

708
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,160
that are watching us, 
specifically those that God has 

709
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,120
entrusted us to raise. 
But it's, it's definitely a 

710
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,880
blessing to, to be a dad. 
And that's something I really 

711
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,200
enjoy and that's something that 
that's. 

712
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,320
Something that pastor had talked
about in his first podcast with 

713
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,600
his story how he got the Holy 
Ghost so early. 

714
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,200
And he mentioned that one of the
reasons why he knew to pray and 

715
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,240
knew to go to the like he knew 
that was a thing is because he 

716
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:35,320
watched his uncle Claude pray so
much. 

717
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,760
And one of the things I told him
I said, you know, that's one 

718
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,000
thing that at the time I was 
like that God is really kind of 

719
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,560
dealing with me about with with 
mind as young as he is, same way

720
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,240
Maverick was. 
But I was like, he's in, he's in

721
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:48,080
Sunday school all the time. 
He's he doesn't see altar 

722
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,520
collar, doesn't see any of that.
And I asked Mike what made him 

723
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,840
do that. 
And he said because I saw and he

724
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,200
just that's where he had 
emphasized like how important it

725
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:00,440
is. 
And I don't think we really 

726
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,120
talked about it enough. 
And I'm glad you brought it up. 

727
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,200
And this is coming up a couple 
of times since then. 

728
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,160
But the importance of our 
children being able to see us 

729
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:13,160
worship, pray and be vulnerable 
before God because they see it 

730
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,960
and they learn from it. 
And just hearing from the things

731
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,800
that you guys are going through 
from Pop and his father Mack 

732
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,040
with Pop and then Seth and then 
now Maverick with you. 

733
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,520
Like, I don't think we emphasize
or see just how important it is 

734
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,520
that our kids see us being. 
Vulnerable with the Lord. 

735
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,040
And how much of an impact it 
makes on them and and and 

736
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,720
another thing that God. 
Convicted me with that on. 

737
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:40,960
Was just just as recently, I was
watching the General Conference,

738
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,800
you know, me and Brooke always 
talked about, you know, I always

739
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,040
said, you know, when he gets 
certain age, we're going to 

740
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,120
start T-ball. 
At one point in time, I was 

741
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:50,840
like, man, when we get him in 
hockey, then I realized I can't 

742
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,360
afford hockey. 
So I was like, hey man. 

743
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:54,640
So I was like. 
Well, you know. 

744
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,800
When he turned, you know, the 
idea is when he turns 3 or 4 or 

745
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,920
5 or whatever, we're going, I'm 
going to start getting them in 

746
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,080
so he can get early learning how
to play this sport and so forth.

747
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,400
And I, I forget what was said, 
but Lehman got up there during 

748
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,640
General Conference and he had 
mentioned that he was like, why 

749
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:14,160
are we as parents so eager or so
strategic about our kids and the

750
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,440
sports or their education or 
whatever? 

751
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,480
Let's get him in at this age. 
And this is how we're going to 

752
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,040
go about it. 
But we don't do that with God. 

753
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:22,880
We don't say, you know, at two 
or three years old. 

754
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,320
Well, when he gets to this 
point, this is when I'm going to

755
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:26,920
start sitting them down. 
And this is when we're going to 

756
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,000
start doing this Bible study and
learning this and learning that.

757
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,360
And, and that hit home for me so
hard. 

758
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,600
And I even told Brooke, I said, 
you know what, when he gets to a

759
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,120
point, he sees it all now. 
You all see him on Sunday, but 

760
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,080
he he sees it all now. 
But when he gets to the point 

761
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,000
when he can understand it, I 
said I was told before I start 

762
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,160
focusing on the sports that I 
want to get him on, We we need 

763
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,320
to, we need to start doing our 
own family thing because I need 

764
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,320
to prioritize, prioritize that 
just as much as I prioritize 

765
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:56,920
sports. 
And I think that's something 

766
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:01,800
that's just is not common in 
religion nowadays. 

767
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,120
I just, I don't see that very 
often, at least from what I can 

768
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:04,960
tell. 
Yeah. 

769
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,640
And we? 
Disregard, I think the weight of

770
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,680
the responsibility because end 
of the day, when, when you have 

771
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,880
the kids, that's a 
responsibility and similar to 

772
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:15,320
you in that moment with 
Maverick. 

773
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,560
And that's awesome because 
that's something you, you didn't

774
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,640
intentionally instill. 
It's a, it's an example, you 

775
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,240
know, and it is difficult 
because let's be real, we, we 

776
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:26,800
all get frustrated, have low 
moments, especially as fathers. 

777
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,000
That's that's going to happen 
with the kids, though, that that

778
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,480
weight hits a whole lot harder 
and you have to be a little bit 

779
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,360
more intentional with it. 
I've seen that with my own kids.

780
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,720
Cohen the other night you want 
to talk about convicting. 

781
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,680
We always pray. 
I've been good about that since 

782
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,280
I was like, you know what, I'm 
going to come to Jesus. 

783
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,440
We're going to be a praying 
house. 

784
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,680
Cohen the other night, probably 
three months ago was a dad. 

785
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,280
I I need to get a new Bible and 
I'm like, OK. 

786
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,320
And he's like, well, I ripped 
that page in it and I was like, 

787
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,240
well, you terrible little kid. 
My God, ask God for forgiveness.

788
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,760
But he he said, I need to get a 
new, new Bible. 

789
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,320
And I said, OK, well, we'll get 
you 1. 

790
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,920
And he says, and then I really 
want you to read to me. 

791
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:08,920
And I was like, OK, I can do 
that. 

792
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,720
He's like, because I need to 
read the Bible to learn how to 

793
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,960
be good and follow Jesus, right?
And I'm like, yeah, how you 

794
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,440
doing? 
I guess I could have been doing 

795
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,240
that this whole time, but 
you're. 

796
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:21,360
Right. 
And so now every. 

797
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,800
Night we we read at least a 
passage of scripture. 

798
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,640
So I think, I think to that end.
Just to add something to that to

799
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,920
to quote something that happened
at men's conference, I want to 

800
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,800
say maybe two years ago is 
Bishop Davidson who is 

801
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,760
preaching, I want to say it was 
maybe Friday morning, but he 

802
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,240
talked about the distinct 
difference between teaching your

803
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:45,240
kids and training your kids. 
Training requires this aspect 

804
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:48,800
that they see you do it. 
It's an active, like, hey, do 

805
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,160
what Daddy's doing as opposed to
this is what you're supposed to 

806
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,160
do, son. 
And and that there's a big 

807
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:56,680
difference. 
But when you read what the Bible

808
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,760
verse says, it says train up 
your children in the way that 

809
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,760
they should go, not teach up 
your children in the way that 

810
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,760
they should go. 
And it's this, this, this active

811
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,920
engagement that says you kind of
have to participate in what you 

812
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,080
expect them to do or otherwise 
they're not going to know how to

813
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,160
do it. 
And we've actively seen that 

814
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,000
now, right where it's like, OK, 
he's just replicating what I'm 

815
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,320
doing. 
Hopefully as fathers, we're 

816
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,240
doing the right thing, right? 
Yeah. 

817
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,040
And 2nd passage. 
Of that scripture where he says,

818
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,560
and they won't depart it. 
I think that's funny because I 

819
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,960
used to want to throw that in my
mom's face because she used to 

820
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,160
say that all the time when I, 
when I, when I was not in 

821
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:32,440
church, I'm like, well, look at 
that. 

822
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,800
You were wrong, weren't you? 
But then at the same stroke, 

823
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,160
like Mack, you say, you know, 
you've got this Raisin. 

824
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,840
And that's my hope for my kids 
because life is always ups and 

825
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:41,840
downs. 
And at the end of the day, 

826
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,680
they're going to have to buy in 
for themselves. 

827
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:47,200
You know, they're going to have 
to find it, but my desire is to 

828
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,200
raise them in such a way that 
when it comes that time and they

829
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,800
hit that line in the sand, they 
have all that background. 

830
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,120
And even if they walk away, it's
going to be like it was for me 

831
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,760
and you where he keeps knocking,
you know, so. 

832
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,200
So to that point, and, and I 
don't think I've ever given Seth

833
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,400
this advice. 
And, and maybe that's because I 

834
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,400
learned it too late in life, but
I'll, I'll share this with 

835
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,640
everybody I come in contact 
with, every parent, every young 

836
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,760
man, every young woman. 
I'm sorry. 

837
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:22,720
And the we, we when? 
I say we. 

838
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,800
And I don't think it's just 
Pentecostals, but it's 

839
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,240
Pentecostals have been pretty 
notorious for it. 

840
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:37,680
We're really good at giving a 
list of do's and don'ts, and 

841
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,800
we're really good at showing 
them what we should do and what 

842
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,800
we shouldn't do. 
But we're not good at telling 

843
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,800
them why, and we're not good at 
showing them that. 

844
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:58,080
The reason that I'm willing to 
sacrifice AB and C is because I 

845
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:04,040
love him so much and because he 
has done so much for me and I 

846
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,400
don't deserve any of it. 
And that's the reason that, 

847
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,720
yeah, that stuff might be fun. 
That stuff might be cool, but if

848
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:16,760
it means I'm going to lose my 
relationship with God, it's not 

849
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,880
worth it. 
It's not, it's not worth the 

850
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,320
chance, man. 
And I know I didn't do a good 

851
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,280
job with that. 
And I don't think a lot of 

852
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,560
people in my generation, I know 
the people in my dad's 

853
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:29,440
generation didn't do a good job 
with it. 

854
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,320
And I, I don't think our 
generation did it. 

855
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:38,120
So putting a little pressure on 
you, your generation, you guys 

856
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,240
do better than we did. 
I raised Seth to be better than 

857
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:45,840
I was, to make better decisions.
And so far he's on track. 

858
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,360
He's doing a great job. 
So it it kind of reminds you of.

859
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,680
Joshua and the 12 Stones on it, 
the importance of putting 

860
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,680
something up as a remembrance of
what God's done for you because 

861
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:58,200
and then for us, if we're not 
vocal about what he's done for 

862
00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:59,760
us and This is why we we started
this. 

863
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,760
If we're not telling people or 
or putting it out there, you get

864
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,840
to be like the the Israelites 
where you get a couple 

865
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,680
generations and they've done 
forgot everything. 

866
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,920
They've forgotten everything. 
What meaneth these stones like? 

867
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,240
Lord forbid we ever have an 
opportunity to answer that 

868
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:14,960
question and nobody can answer 
it, right? 

869
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,680
Like, why are we doing this? 
What, what's the purpose? 

870
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,920
And everybody's like, we've just
always done it that way. 

871
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,200
I don't really know. 
You know, that's kind of a a 

872
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:28,360
travesty. 
And so. 

873
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,680
So you get there to Tennessee 
and you you begin your work in 

874
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:34,320
the ministry. 
Your father, you're you're 

875
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,240
trying to you're right in the 
course. 

876
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:39,240
What kind of lessons did you did
you learn during that period? 

877
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:42,320
Do you feel like God kind of 
impressed on you so? 

878
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:50,360
Like I like I shared before, I 
never felt led to a pastor, but 

879
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,360
bring up Brother Han of it 
again, when I knew that I was 

880
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,520
going to be moving to East 
Tennessee, I knew that I was 

881
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,200
going to be helping with the 
church up there. 

882
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,720
I called him and and I said, 
hey, I'm going to be moving up 

883
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:08,720
to East Tennessee, going to be 
helping Denny Livingston Church 

884
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:10,880
up there. 
At the time it was called New 

885
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,720
Life. 
It's the sanctuary now Brother 

886
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:18,720
Carver's pastor there. 
But I said, you know, what 

887
00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:22,600
advice would you give a young 
arrogant punk that's trying to 

888
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,160
be a minister? 
You know, and he said, I'll give

889
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:31,720
you 2 pieces of advice. 
He said, one, people are crazy. 

890
00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:36,120
It doesn't matter where you go, 
you're going to be dealing with 

891
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:41,400
crazy people, He said, Two, 
because of your personality, 

892
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:43,840
people are going to gravitate to
you. 

893
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,520
People are going to want to talk
to you. 

894
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:51,040
People are going to want to 
share things with you and. 

895
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,760
There will come a time. 
That you'll have to fight the 

896
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:58,320
absolute spirit. 
And he said, remember that 

897
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,400
you're there to help the man of 
God. 

898
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:02,960
You're not there to be the man 
of God. 

899
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:09,240
And, and I've, I've, I've always
felt like I'm what a lot of 

900
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:10,960
people would call an armor 
bearer. 

901
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,520
I want to try to help your dad, 
Pastor Penton any way that I 

902
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,040
possibly can to try try to take 
some of the pressure off of him,

903
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,360
whatever I can do to help him 
that doesn't bleed over into the

904
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,760
pastoral side. 
There's certain things that only

905
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,000
he can handle and I'm more than 
happy when somebody and and you 

906
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:34,840
can you can probably ask several
people in the church that have 

907
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,200
come to me with certain things 
that I say you need to talk to 

908
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,080
pastor. 
I don't I don't deal with those 

909
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,920
situations. 
I get him involved. 

910
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:48,120
And so definitely learn that 
lesson. 

911
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,200
I learned a lesson that I don't 
need, and I shared this with 

912
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,560
you, Cam. 
I don't need to set expectations

913
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,560
for what my ministry looks like,
what style of preaching I'm 

914
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:07,320
going to be preach because I did
you know, I mean, let's be 

915
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:11,800
honest, I came up under my Papa 
Testin was a fireball preacher, 

916
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:17,040
my dad was a fireball preacher, 
Jeff Arnold fireball preacher. 

917
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,360
I mean, you know, I, I grew up 
in that. 

918
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,240
So of course when I start 
feeling a call to preach, I see 

919
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:26,120
myself as a fireball preacher. 
Y'all have heard me, I'm not a 

920
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:30,320
fireball preacher. 
You know, my style is different 

921
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:36,440
and at first that was hard for 
me and, and at first it made me 

922
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,160
reluctant to completely 
relinquish to the anointing when

923
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:45,320
I was when I was buying the 
pulpit and I preached a message 

924
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,520
one time while I was preparing 
for the message. 

925
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:51,680
I. 
Remember it like it was 

926
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:53,720
yesterday? 
I remember writing this note 

927
00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:55,840
down and I was like, oh, this 
was going to get them on their 

928
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:01,600
feet, you know, And I wrote that
little note down and in my 

929
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:07,160
notebook, you know, and, and I 
got up and preached and man, I, 

930
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,560
I thought, I preached my heart 
out. 

931
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,840
I thought, I, I thought I laid 
it down, you know what I mean? 

932
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,920
I thought I was just really, 
really do it. 

933
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:19,560
There weren't any amens. 
There weren't any Baptist nods. 

934
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,160
There was, it was quiet, you 
know, and it wasn't the kind of 

935
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,080
quiet that I get now where 
people are actually thinking it 

936
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,680
was quiet because people were 
wondering what in the world I 

937
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,320
was doing. 
And so I handed the mic over to 

938
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,560
one of the other ministers to, 
to close the service. 

939
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,840
And I went over and knelt down 
and I said, God, I don't, I 

940
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,360
don't know what, what happened, 
you know. 

941
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,080
And he said, well, this is what 
happens when you preach. 

942
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:50,760
And so from that point. 
On I do my best to pray and fast

943
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,880
before I'm going to be 
ministering behind a pulpit and 

944
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,520
I'll let God just take me where 
he wants me to go. 

945
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,520
However it comes out. 
I feel like it's what he wanted 

946
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,400
me to do and say. 
So that was a, that was a big 

947
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:07,080
hard lesson for me to learn. 
And like I said, dealing with 

948
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:12,120
people, I've learned a lot. 
I, I believe that early on in 

949
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,560
Greenville, I was a truck 
driver. 

950
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:19,240
You know, I, I've never been in 
a leadership role in anything, 

951
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,800
but I learned leadership in the 
church. 

952
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:27,720
And now God has taken that 
talent and that gifting that he 

953
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:30,560
used in the church and that he 
honed in the church with men of 

954
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,280
God like Danny Livingston and so
many men up there in the 

955
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:39,320
Northeast Tennessee, Southwest 
Virginia area, that and now he's

956
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,880
used it to help me in my career.
I mean, I've spent the last 25 

957
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:49,760
to 30 years leading people, you 
know, outside of church, and I 

958
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,560
learned all of those lessons in 
the church. 

959
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,960
So anyway, I'm on tread. 
Very lightly here as 

960
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,080
respectfully as I can, but there
was a very major point in your 

961
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,400
life Speaking of Donna and the 
impact that she had on you. 

962
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,120
And if you don't want to go 
anywhere, let me know. 

963
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,960
But this is one spot where you 
guys both have a perspective on 

964
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,680
this. 
And I, I could not imagine going

965
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,200
through it for either situation 
that you guys went through it. 

966
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,240
But I have seen personally from 
my view, as it made both of you 

967
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:24,000
a very, very strong in ways that
other people could not be. 

968
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,000
But could you, Mac, first from 
your perspective, walk me 

969
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,880
through that situation because 
I'm sure you had to rely on God 

970
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,400
probably more than ever before 
in your life and, and how that 

971
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,360
affected you and, and just 
moving forward from all of that.

972
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,800
So I'll give a little. 
Bit of background, while we were

973
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,640
in East Tennessee is when I went
to work for Cintas. 

974
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,240
You know, you look back and. 
I think I might have gotten a 

975
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:59,520
little bit career greedy, wanted
that next step wanted. 

976
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:02,600
I mean, you know, I was. 
I still say this to this day, 

977
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,320
and some somewhat jokingly, but 
somewhat serious. 

978
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,480
I've done a lot of different 
jobs in my life, but I was never

979
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,400
better at anything than running 
a route for Cintas. 

980
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,600
I was the best, I mean one of 
the best. 

981
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,840
And then that ended up getting 
me promoted and that's what 

982
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,520
moved me to Asheville, NC. 
Everything worked out. 

983
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:27,880
God took it. 
You know, people can debate all 

984
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:32,680
day long on how does God 
orchestrate those things or does

985
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,880
God let you make mistakes and 
then pull you back to where you 

986
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,360
need to be? 
And I, I tend to lean toward the

987
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:42,440
ladder. 
I'm not sure that I was supposed

988
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,360
to take that job for my 
spiritual life because Asheville

989
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:48,560
was tough. 
It was tough on all of us. 

990
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:53,120
Seth was in a school situation 
that wasn't great for him, the 

991
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,080
church situation. 
We were traveling pretty good 

992
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,040
distance to go to a good church.
There wasn't a good church close

993
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,000
to us. 
And I don't mean that any kind 

994
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,120
of disparagingly way, you know, 
disparaging way toward the 

995
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,640
churches that were close to us, 
but it just wasn't what we were 

996
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,840
used to. 
You know, we're used to this 

997
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,120
kind of worship. 
We're used to what we do here, 

998
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,920
you know, and we weren't getting
that at some of the closer 

999
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,600
churches. 
So we were having drive into 

1000
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,160
Asheville to Brother Mitchell's 
church. 

1001
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,760
And I mean, it was a good church
and but we just weren't as 

1002
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,760
faithful as we needed to be 
because of the distance and 

1003
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,880
finances were tough. 
And so, but it was in that time 

1004
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:37,240
that, you know, later I got the 
opportunity to be transferred to

1005
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,120
here, you know, And so God 
worked it all out. 

1006
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:48,200
But it wasn't long after we got 
here that that Donna had and it 

1007
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:53,440
was just a little bump on her 
foot that we ended up finding 

1008
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,880
out after she passed that that's
where the cancer had started. 

1009
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:02,000
But, you know, we had gotten 
here and we were going to 1st 

1010
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,200
Church in Athens and we were 
getting more and more involved. 

1011
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,920
Seth was involved heavily with 
the youth group. 

1012
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,640
Michaela was getting used to 
everything that, you know, 

1013
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,680
Jaron's out of her babies. 
But we were. 

1014
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:20,840
We were doing that so. 
One of the hardest things about 

1015
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:25,800
it, Johnny, is that for a year 
she had a she had a nodule 

1016
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:27,600
removed out of her foot and for 
a year. 

1017
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,400
It wouldn't heal. 
And we went to doctor after 

1018
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,160
doctor after doctor and couldn't
figure out what was going on. 

1019
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,640
I mean, they tested for 
everything, tested for all types

1020
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,600
of cancers. 
Nothing ever came back 

1021
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:48,320
conclusive. 
So, you know, when she passed, 

1022
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,920
I, I, I wasn't expecting it at 
all. 

1023
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,160
I I was expecting that. 
She may have to have her. 

1024
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:01,920
Foot amputated, it had gotten 
that bad, but I wasn't expecting

1025
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:08,680
death. 
And so when that happened, I, I 

1026
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:12,320
mean, I went through a myriad of
emotions. 

1027
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:16,760
Of course I didn't have time to 
go through a lot of emotions. 

1028
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,560
I had four kids, you know, and 
two babies. 

1029
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:22,960
Jerry and Jayla were four years 
old. 

1030
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:31,320
So I heard my all my life that 
going through tough times makes 

1031
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,800
your faith stronger. 
I used to think that was bogus, 

1032
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:41,800
but it's true. 
I I wish I could explain it but 

1033
00:59:45,040 --> 00:59:46,480
it it. 
It drew me. 

1034
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,560
Closer to God. 
Do I still miss her sometimes? 

1035
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:58,640
Absolutely. 
Do I still wonder why it had to 

1036
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,360
happen that way? 
Absolutely. 

1037
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:04,640
One of the hardest things about 
it is wondering how it was going

1038
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:10,120
to affect the kids. 
And the day that I had to come 

1039
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,000
home from the hospital and tell 
my 4 kids that mama's not coming

1040
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,360
home. 
One thing's for certain. 

1041
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,160
There's no telling what I'll go 
through in this life. 

1042
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:22,440
But I don't think I'll ever do 
anything tougher than that. 

1043
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,720
And. 
And I remember, and I just 

1044
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:29,720
shared this on a, on a group 
text. 

1045
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:34,480
I don't know who I was on the 
group text, but I remember I 

1046
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,360
don't know how long it was after
Donna had passed. 

1047
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:43,160
I was making my bed one morning 
and I got a picture of myself 

1048
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,880
sitting in a pile of rubble, 
like the rubble that was created

1049
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:51,720
from the tsunami in Indonesia. 
And it was like God spoke to me 

1050
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:55,080
and said, are you going to 
continue to sit in this rubble 

1051
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:56,920
or are you going to rebuild your
house? 

1052
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:02,120
And it was just God's pointing 
me back to the foundation 

1053
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:06,080
principles of, you know, you got
to get your family needs you, 

1054
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:10,160
you got to do this. 
I I don't. 

1055
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:13,920
Have a step. 
Plan of how you deal with that 

1056
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,800
kind of grief. 
I went through my moments, I 

1057
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:21,360
went through all the phases. 
I promise you, I screamed at 

1058
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:28,560
God, I screamed at the cemetery,
I screamed at Donna, I screamed 

1059
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,120
at the every doctor that had 
anything to do with it. 

1060
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:38,560
Not to their face, you know, in 
my truck, in my car, by myself, 

1061
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:40,520
in the shower after the kids 
went to bed. 

1062
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,760
But at the end of the day, it 
all comes back to one thing, and

1063
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:52,000
that's God still, still there 
waiting to heal me and restore 

1064
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,840
me. 
And would I have picked that to 

1065
01:01:55,840 --> 01:02:01,480
happen in my life? 
No, but it's. 

1066
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:05,520
It's what got me. 
Here and then Vicki comes into 

1067
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:12,840
my life and I mean, I mean, 
it's, it's a little hard to it's

1068
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,720
a little hard to navigate around
that conversation. 

1069
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:21,320
You know the love of my life 
passed but then. 

1070
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:25,680
God brought me the love of. 
My life most. 

1071
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:28,400
People can't understand. 
Or comprehend that and I can't 

1072
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,120
explain it in a way to help 
them, but I know it's true and I

1073
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,000
know God's been in every step of
it. 

1074
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:39,920
And I tell people life happens 
sin. 

1075
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:43,280
Came into the world. 
And so did sickness, disease, 

1076
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:49,160
and storms and destruction. 
And sometimes life happens, and 

1077
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:53,000
sometimes God can intervene and 
keep it from happening, and 

1078
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:59,760
sometimes he chooses not to. 
And in this instance, God didn't

1079
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,760
give Donna cancer. 
The devil didn't give Donna 

1080
01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,080
cancer. 
I don't give him any credit for 

1081
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:10,360
anything in my life. 
The devil didn't give Donna 

1082
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,320
cancer. 
Life happened and Donna got 

1083
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:17,840
cancer. 
And in God's infinite wisdom and

1084
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,840
sovereignty, he chose not to 
intervene. 

1085
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:28,640
And faith is not believing that 
God will, that God can, that God

1086
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,880
does. 
But faith is believing that he 

1087
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,160
can, He will, and he and he 
does. 

1088
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:39,240
But when he doesn't, being OK 
with it, that's faith. 

1089
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,080
And I didn't have that faith 
until after that. 

1090
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,240
So I would have, I would have. 
I would have. 

1091
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:47,600
I would have struggled to. 
Have that faith. 

1092
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,560
Regardless, through all of it, I
don't think there's very many 

1093
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:57,600
people who could, in your shoes,
say they were strong and they 

1094
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,160
had faith. 
I mean so, so I I tell. 

1095
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:03,520
People this you know some people
would come up to me man, I'm 

1096
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,600
sorry you lost your wife Let 
let's. 

1097
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,720
Let's be clear here. 
And I said this at her funeral. 

1098
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:13,320
Something that's lost can't be 
found. 

1099
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:19,440
She's never been more found. 
I know exactly where she is. 

1100
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,080
She's never been more found. 
So the. 

1101
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:29,000
Pop talked about the vision you 
had of Monk that helped him. 

1102
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:34,360
I I reckon that same thought 
process probably for both of you

1103
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:39,400
guys carries a lot of weight. 
Is that thought of exactly like 

1104
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,640
you just said? 
It's not like you're never going

1105
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,240
to see her again. 
You, you can take refuge and 

1106
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,400
knowing that when it's all said 
and done, you're going to see 

1107
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:49,160
her again. 
You're all going to be reunited 

1108
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:50,680
again. 
And not only then, but you'll be

1109
01:04:50,680 --> 01:04:54,960
in such a better environment 
when that happens. 

1110
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:59,480
So like I said, it's it's 
definitely a, a tough thing that

1111
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:00,600
I just, I don't know that I 
could. 

1112
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:03,840
Go through it in the way that 
you. 

1113
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,240
Would have had to have gone 
through it no and I I commend 

1114
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:08,080
your. 
Strength on that too, because. 

1115
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:14,800
Man, that's tough. 
That's tough and and even just 

1116
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,200
as a dad, you, you, the first 
thing you mentioned was being 

1117
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:27,040
there for your kids, and that 
says a lot about you and you and

1118
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:28,800
your strengths. 
Navigate that because I'll be 

1119
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:29,840
real. 
The first thing I would do is 

1120
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,880
blame God. 
I'm I'm that type of person and 

1121
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:35,600
maybe I'm not there and you were
further in your walk with God 

1122
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,920
that I am, I said I yelled at 
God you. 

1123
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:41,960
Did say that but but. 
And you don't blame him some you

1124
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:43,240
just. 
Reminded me though. 

1125
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,600
And it's, it's the book of Job. 
You're saying all that and I'm 

1126
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,200
hearing the book of Job because 
if you read the book of Job, Job

1127
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,040
wasn't happy with God the whole 
time at all. 

1128
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,160
In fact, he had a lot of things 
to say to God. 

1129
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,760
But the biggest thing about it 
all was he was talking to God 

1130
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,840
throughout all of it. 
The relationship, you have a 

1131
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:02,560
relationship, father and son, 
husband, wife, all of that. 

1132
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:05,040
It's not always beautiful. 
Sometimes you're going to have 

1133
01:06:05,040 --> 01:06:08,600
fights and all the relationships
always there throughout all of 

1134
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:09,920
it. 
And I think that's the thing 

1135
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:11,880
with life. 
You said it rains on the just 

1136
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:13,800
and the unjust, right? 
Life happens. 

1137
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:17,600
What we do with it from that 
point and maintaining that 

1138
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:21,400
relationship is for one, you're,
you're the biggest testament of 

1139
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,160
that. 
The greatest example I can think

1140
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:26,520
of of a putting your priorities 
straight and raising your kids. 

1141
01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:29,960
And I hope to be that type of 
father for my kids that when it 

1142
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,880
does rain and we're going 
through storms, that I'm still 

1143
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:36,680
going to be able to, to 
strengthen myself and, and be 

1144
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:42,240
there for my kids. 
Seth for you, because that's 

1145
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,960
difficult where you're at when 
you were young and that's that's

1146
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:51,200
before we really met and can. 
You walk us through some of. 

1147
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:54,440
That and shaping that in in your
development. 

1148
01:06:54,520 --> 01:07:01,920
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. 
Let's let's put a personal story

1149
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:08,280
to it. 
The night before dad comes home 

1150
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,760
to let us know that we were no 
longer going to be seeing mom, 

1151
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,280
There was. 
I felt guilty about this exact 

1152
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:21,320
conversation for a little while.
So I was a snot nosed teenager 

1153
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:26,200
who was at church on a Sunday 
night who wanted to go out to 

1154
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:31,000
eat with some of my friends that
were able to go. 

1155
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,800
And dad was was at church. 
My mom was actually in the 

1156
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:39,440
hospital at the time. 
It was at this phase because of 

1157
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:42,040
some of the complications from 
the whole foot thing. 

1158
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,680
This wasn't super uncommon. 
And for better or for worse, we 

1159
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:47,440
kind of got used to the 
possibility that, yeah, mom 

1160
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,640
would occasionally have a 
hospital stay for some minor 

1161
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:54,800
surgery recovery or, you know, 
just a visit to check on some 

1162
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:56,800
things. 
And, and unfortunately, as dad 

1163
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,760
alluded to, we never knew that 
it was cancer. 

1164
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,680
It was never an oncology 
appointment. 

1165
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,240
It was some other thing where 
they were trying to figure some 

1166
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,120
stuff out. 
And it was our life, you know, 

1167
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:11,960
for the for the better part of 
the year that it to some extent,

1168
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,120
mom may not be home tonight 
because she may be staying in 

1169
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:16,840
the hospital while they're 
running some tests. 

1170
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:21,560
It never ever and any shape 
clicked that it was a 

1171
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:26,600
possibility that that that 
conversation would ever happen, 

1172
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:30,120
that that I would be waking up 
for school on a Monday morning 

1173
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,880
and dad would be waiting in the 
living room to tell us, hey 

1174
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:36,080
guys, you don't have to go to 
school today. 

1175
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:37,640
There's something else we need 
to talk about. 

1176
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:43,880
So rewinding to the Sunday night
before, I'm snot nosed little 

1177
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,760
kid asking dad, hey, do you care
if I go out to eat with so and 

1178
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:51,960
so will be home by so and so. 
And dad's response, as it 

1179
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:56,439
usually was, was you need to ask
your mom because mom was a 

1180
01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:00,160
little bit more giving dads 
stress and and and life at work.

1181
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:03,399
Mom was a little bit more the 
manager of getting us ready for 

1182
01:09:03,399 --> 01:09:07,080
school and things of that nature
and would be able to to have a 

1183
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:10,359
little bit more of a say in 
whether or not me staying out a 

1184
01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:13,319
little later would make me a 
butt head the next morning. 

1185
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:17,240
To which mom said, no, you, you 
don't need to do that. 

1186
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:20,080
You need to go home and you need
to go to bed because you have 

1187
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:22,520
school in the morning. 
And I was like, all right, cool 

1188
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,640
and hung up the phone And in 
complete transparency, my snot 

1189
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:30,399
nosed little kid self was mad 
that my mom would not let me go 

1190
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,920
hang out with my friends. 
And that was the last 

1191
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,240
conversation that that we had. 
So that was that ate at me for a

1192
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:40,600
little while. 
So anyway, you, you kind of Fast

1193
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:44,200
forward 12 or so hours to, to 
dad letting us know that our mom

1194
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:47,720
had passed. 
And it, it's so surreal in the 

1195
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:50,720
moment that when you hear that, 
because growing up in, you know,

1196
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:52,680
elementary school and middle 
school and different things, you

1197
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:58,080
had always heard these kids had 
these tragic situations where 

1198
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:00,920
it's like, oh, their dad was 
killed in a car accident or 

1199
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:03,120
their mom had this happen when 
they were younger. 

1200
01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:08,000
And, and you never even begin to
think like, what if that was me?

1201
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,720
Like, you never, ever put 
yourself in in the shoes, if you

1202
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,600
will, of like, what would life 
be like without one of your 

1203
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:16,080
parents? 
How old were you doing? 

1204
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:17,960
This was was I-14. 
Yeah. 

1205
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:25,280
I was 14 in 2009, Right. 
So, so it's it's so surreal in 

1206
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,920
the moment. 
You're, there's 1000 things 

1207
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:30,640
going on in your head. 
You're you're kind of at a loss 

1208
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:32,920
for words, saying this is just 
not believable. 

1209
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:36,440
This doesn't make any sense. 
I just talked to mom 12 hours 

1210
01:10:36,440 --> 01:10:39,120
ago. 
Her staying in the hospital's 

1211
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:41,480
normal, she'll be home. 
What are you talking about? 

1212
01:10:41,480 --> 01:10:45,040
You've lost it, etcetera. 
And then you gradually 

1213
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:49,280
transition to kind of the 
inherent older brother mode 

1214
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:53,160
where it's like, hold on, 
there's younger siblings who are

1215
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:58,240
extremely distraught and you've 
pull it together, old man, 

1216
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:00,360
you've got to be strong for the 
kids. 

1217
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,280
You've got to, you know, dad's 
about to do this on his own. 

1218
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:04,920
How are you going to, you know, 
whatever. 

1219
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:10,840
And so at that point, you, you 
do what's the probably not the 

1220
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,600
right thing, but the thing that 
we often do in masculinity, 

1221
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:18,360
which is you do this masking of 
I'm fine and you just wear the 

1222
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:21,600
the mask of I'm fine in 
perpetuity until you realize one

1223
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:26,120
day that you're not. 
So what I came to realize over 

1224
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:30,080
the course of honestly and 
complete transparency, probably 

1225
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:35,440
the next 10 years, is that 
losing somebody so close to you 

1226
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,880
made it extremely difficult for 
me to have intimate connection 

1227
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:41,840
with people. 
And I'm not talking about like 

1228
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:44,280
romantically. 
I'm talking about just the 

1229
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,000
closeness that people have 
because you kind of put up this,

1230
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:49,600
this facade of I don't want to 
get hurt again. 

1231
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:52,240
I never want to be that close to
anybody to where if they were to

1232
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:57,480
be gone, it would hurt that bad.
And it honestly and in complete 

1233
01:11:57,480 --> 01:11:59,040
transparency, I don't mind 
sharing this. 

1234
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:04,200
It was the first few arguments 
with my now wife that revealed 

1235
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,560
that there's, there was still 
some stuff there that I needed 

1236
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:10,600
to deal with in terms of my 
ability to feel real emotion 

1237
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:15,240
because I, I did mask it. 
You mask it so hard to, to kind 

1238
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:17,200
of you. 
And like I said, you justify it 

1239
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:19,680
to, to be strong for the 
siblings and everything else. 

1240
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:24,360
But then gradually there's 
little Nuggets throughout the, 

1241
01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:28,800
the years there and in terms of 
maturing and I, I never got 

1242
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:31,520
angry enough at God to where it 
was like, all right, I'm going 

1243
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,040
to take this out on you and I'm 
not going back to church and, 

1244
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,240
and anything like that. 
It was a thought that never 

1245
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:40,000
really crossed my mind, but 
there was a couple of like 

1246
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,080
hindrances and doubts where it 
was like, OK, is God really in 

1247
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:45,600
control of everything? 
Because if he were, why would 

1248
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:48,400
this have happened? 
What, why would he allow that to

1249
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,880
happen? 
And it's not until you zoom out 

1250
01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:54,920
several years later that you 
realize just how in control that

1251
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:58,120
he was. 
So that kind of alluded to it, 

1252
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:02,400
but his marriage to to Vicki was
what ultimately brought our 

1253
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:05,920
family to Lifegate. 
And this is nothing negative 

1254
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,720
about any previous church, but 
that was absolutely a God timed 

1255
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:14,040
movement where I was surrounded 
by two really good friends and 

1256
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:19,400
Colby and Cam and later John. 
And we also had had our families

1257
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:23,080
join together where Autumn and 
Ryan became part of the picture 

1258
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:24,840
and and we're coming to church 
as well. 

1259
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:29,680
And everybody begin this kind of
process of healing now in deeper

1260
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:31,800
emotional levels. 
That took me longer than I'm 

1261
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:35,120
proud of. 
But moving to Lifegate when we 

1262
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:41,160
did was extremely God timed. 
And then as you zoom out and you

1263
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:45,400
start to kind of examine the 
picture of just how in control 

1264
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:49,600
God was and how he orchestrated 
everything, it it's like, wow, 

1265
01:13:50,160 --> 01:13:52,400
how, how did he know? 
And then you're like, you're 

1266
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:56,160
reminded, Oh, he's all knowing. 
And, and then you, you really 

1267
01:13:56,160 --> 01:14:00,080
start to kind of turntable that 
anger and frustration of what 

1268
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,440
was and to this kind of faith 
and confidence of, to what is 

1269
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:05,400
and what will be. 
And what I mean by that is like 

1270
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:10,680
now I'm really never in a moment
where I'm like, what just 

1271
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:14,280
happened surprised God. 
Because in, in all honesty, 

1272
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:17,040
everything that we now face, 
it's just like, OK, God knew 

1273
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:19,760
this was coming. 
It wasn't a big surprise or a 

1274
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,120
shock to him. 
He's been in control the whole 

1275
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:24,200
time. 
And if he believed that we could

1276
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:26,280
take it. 
There's a reason why we're here.

1277
01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:32,680
So that that perspective shift 
has been massive in terms of the

1278
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:36,960
lesson learned, if you will, on,
you know, how it's applied even 

1279
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,920
in life and ministry. 
Let me. 

1280
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:44,200
Let me just add something I'm 
going to try to take couple 

1281
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,240
thoughts together. 
We talked earlier about how your

1282
01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:51,800
kids are watching you and how 
how much weight of 

1283
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:57,520
responsibility we need to feel 
in order to dictate, you know, 

1284
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:00,960
how we how we act, how we do, 
how, what, what we go through 

1285
01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:04,520
and everything. 
So we mentioned it. 

1286
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:11,600
That can be good and bad, right?
So in this instance, with Seth 

1287
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:16,040
putting the walls up for his 
emotions, I'll never forget it 

1288
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:23,920
and he may remember it as well. 
But the day of the funeral where

1289
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:29,440
I'm doing what I'm supposed to 
do, I'm standing up at the 

1290
01:15:29,440 --> 01:15:33,040
casket, you know, and greeting 
everybody, all the family 

1291
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:37,240
members and everybody's coming 
through. 

1292
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:39,080
And I mean, just droves and 
droves of people. 

1293
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:41,560
We had people from North 
Carolina where I'd worked. 

1294
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:45,360
My boss from North Carolina 
came, you know, I had people 

1295
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:48,800
from East Tennessee, people from
Middle Tennessee, people from 

1296
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:51,840
here, people from everywhere, 
man, just coming, you know, 

1297
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:56,720
'cause between the two of us, we
had touched a lot of lives and, 

1298
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:00,920
and so and God had touched us 
through a lot of those people. 

1299
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:05,200
But I'll never forget when, when
it came time for visitation to 

1300
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:11,680
start, Seth came up to me. 
You know, he's, he's 14, but 

1301
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:15,920
he's already as tall as I am. 
You know, he's a string being, 

1302
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:22,560
you know, and a lot's changed 
and he twice the man he used to 

1303
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:24,560
be. 
He comes up to me and he. 

1304
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:31,160
Says he says, Dad, should I or 
can I stand here? 

1305
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:33,320
And I said, yeah, you can stand 
here. 

1306
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:38,600
But he said should I stand here?
I said it would be honorable. 

1307
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:44,040
So he stood there with me the 
whole time. 

1308
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:48,080
He never left everybody that 
came through. 

1309
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:53,760
If if I could have been outside 
of myself looking, I'm sure he 

1310
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:59,400
probably mirrored my actions the
whole time to make sure that he 

1311
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,800
was bringing. 
Honor to his mom. 

1312
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:06,840
Bringing honor to me, to the 
family, bringing honor to God. 

1313
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:16,920
But later, you know, when he was
not showing emotion, I. 

1314
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,120
Tried to talk to him you. 
Know, I mean, we dad, sometimes 

1315
01:17:20,120 --> 01:17:23,520
we, we're not really good at 
having the emotional 

1316
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,160
conversations, you know, 
especially with our sons. 

1317
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:30,920
I mean, it's a little tough. 
I mean, but I was worried about 

1318
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:34,960
him because he was angry and I 
knew it was because he hadn't 

1319
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:38,360
grieved. 
I know enough about the 

1320
01:17:38,360 --> 01:17:40,680
psychology of our way our mind 
works. 

1321
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,680
I mean, we have to grieve and 
it's going to happen sooner or 

1322
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:46,320
later. 
It's either going to happen 

1323
01:17:46,320 --> 01:17:48,640
little by little or it's going 
to be an explosion and then it's

1324
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:53,200
going to make a mess. 
And so I was talking to him 

1325
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:56,680
about, you know, grieving and I 
said, son, I'm, I'm a little 

1326
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:01,680
concerned, you know, and, and I 
said, I haven't even, I haven't 

1327
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:05,920
even seen you cry about it, you 
know, and. 

1328
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:12,160
He broke down in tears. 
And and said you haven't shed 1 

1329
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:15,360
tear. 
And and I. 

1330
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:19,520
Hadn't in front of them thinking
I was doing the right thing, you

1331
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:23,680
know, being strong and just 
going through damage control, 

1332
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:28,080
you know? 
But I had to tell him what he 

1333
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:29,160
didn't. 
See you. 

1334
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:32,720
Know still took a long time and 
actually I think a conversation 

1335
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:39,440
with with mom Vicki revealed to 
him some things that you know 

1336
01:18:39,440 --> 01:18:43,320
that I couldn't you know Vicki 
was there for him in a way that 

1337
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:47,840
I couldn't be and so just 
another testament of how God 

1338
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:52,000
orchestrated everything. 
But again, he was watching me 

1339
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:53,520
and he was doing what I was 
doing. 

1340
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:57,200
I didn't. 
I didn't. 

1341
01:18:57,200 --> 01:19:00,320
Have the wherewithal at the. 
Moment to to let him know that 

1342
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,880
you know, I was just putting up 
a good front that you know, in 

1343
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:09,280
private I was broken and I was 
hurting so. 

1344
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:15,200
I guess I kind of I got to be 
the one to lead us into that. 

1345
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:17,160
So I'll try to pull us back out 
of it. 

1346
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:22,720
So it's not a ending like pops, 
but so we we we've gotten to 

1347
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:23,800
learn a little more about you, 
Seth. 

1348
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:27,400
But what I haven't heard yet is 
when exactly you, you got the 

1349
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:31,520
Holy Ghost, when you got 
baptized and you're kind of 

1350
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:35,360
progression through spiritually 
speaking. 

1351
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:39,200
I met you when you were just 
turned 17, I think. 

1352
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:41,360
So I can remember that talking. 
We'll get in that in a little 

1353
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:42,920
bit. 
But before then, let's not get 

1354
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:48,760
into that in a little. 
Bit it's under the blood, yeah. 

1355
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:49,400
We, we. 
We. 

1356
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:53,040
Could talk about the first time 
you came up in my house, home 

1357
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:57,520
school and I was like, babe, do 
you know this boy? 

1358
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,360
I mean to Colby's earlier point,
you know. 

1359
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,360
We're not the men we used to be.
Most of us are twice the men we 

1360
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:05,520
used to be. 
I'll probably almost three 

1361
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:09,120
times. 
That growth rate is just. 

1362
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:13,600
Soaring, yeah, so, so total back
story, I guess to kind of answer

1363
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:18,320
your question. 
So once again, I, I, I'd be 

1364
01:20:18,320 --> 01:20:21,480
remiss not to kind of comment on
just how in control God is. 

1365
01:20:21,480 --> 01:20:24,360
So when I, when I have the 
opportunity to tell anybody my 

1366
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:28,200
personal testimony and how I 
quote UN quote came into church 

1367
01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:33,560
and I'm using air quotes because
although I was one when mom and 

1368
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,360
dad had technically got it back 
into church and dad's case back,

1369
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:42,480
you know, into church and mom's 
case, you know, I don't really 

1370
01:20:42,480 --> 01:20:43,800
remember the first year of my 
life. 

1371
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:46,840
So in all intents and purposes, 
I believe that I've been raised 

1372
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:51,000
in church, you know, since I've,
you know, been aware, but you 

1373
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:53,920
kind of have to look at 
everything generationally, 

1374
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:56,240
right? 
And, and we've, you know, on the

1375
01:20:56,240 --> 01:21:00,200
podcast now you've heard some of
pop story Dad has alluded to, 

1376
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:03,600
you know, Papa Barber's story, 
which is Nana's dad. 

1377
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:07,440
And and now you've kind of heard
his story and just how in 

1378
01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:11,320
control God is and bringing 
everything back, whether that 

1379
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:15,320
was revelation, you know, in a 
field somewhere of what one God 

1380
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:19,440
meant or dedication to mortgage 
in your own home, to getting a 

1381
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:22,480
church built. 
Dad didn't say this, but one of 

1382
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:25,480
the things that Papa Barber was 
quoted saying was that, you 

1383
01:21:25,480 --> 01:21:28,480
know, a lot of people were 
questioning, like, why, why are 

1384
01:21:28,480 --> 01:21:30,480
you doing this? 
Have you lost your ever loving 

1385
01:21:30,480 --> 01:21:32,680
mind, your mortgage in your own 
house to build a what? 

1386
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,640
Why do you care? 
And his answer and his response 

1387
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:39,240
was, I need a place for my 
grandkids to go to church. 

1388
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:43,240
And, and now you actually look 
in in that church, he not only 

1389
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:46,120
has grandkids in that church, 
but great grandkids and great 

1390
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:48,720
grandkids that are actually at 
that church, the same church. 

1391
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:52,880
Now, obviously the building has 
changed a few times, but so you 

1392
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:54,920
kind of have this, this back 
story in history. 

1393
01:21:55,720 --> 01:22:02,600
But that experience that Donna, 
as in my mom had that completely

1394
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:07,360
radically shifted the trajectory
of how Mack and Donna Testin 

1395
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:10,960
were going to raise their kids 
is really where that story 

1396
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:13,240
starts. 
Because while I've been raised 

1397
01:22:13,240 --> 01:22:16,040
in church, you have to you have 
to step back a generation and 

1398
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:18,560
say, OK, why? 
Why was Seth raised in church? 

1399
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:21,080
Why? 
Why does he have, you know, that

1400
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:24,920
and his back story? 
And it's because, you know, a 

1401
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:29,960
God full of mercy would bring a 
Mac back into the fold, but a 

1402
01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:36,840
God full of just absolute mine 
altering power would reveal 

1403
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:40,760
something to Donna who had never
experienced it before And and in

1404
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:44,920
similar time frames, show her 
himself for the first time and 

1405
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:48,960
show the full mercy to Mack that
says, I know what you've done. 

1406
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:53,480
It's OK come back. 
It is how you know I'm born in 

1407
01:22:53,480 --> 01:22:56,360
into being able to be raised in 
an Apostolic home to which I 

1408
01:22:56,360 --> 01:22:59,280
give honor to both of my parents
for their effort on that. 

1409
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:03,360
But and and even a generation 
before that, a pop that would 

1410
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:06,360
bug the mess out of my dad to 
say, Hey, you know, are you 

1411
01:23:06,360 --> 01:23:07,880
going to raise this kid in 
church or not? 

1412
01:23:07,880 --> 01:23:09,280
Right? 
You have to give honor there. 

1413
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:12,600
But so all, All in all, you 
know, dad kind of gave a little 

1414
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:14,640
bit of the the life. 
But we grew up in Middle 

1415
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,560
Tennessee for the first three 
years or so, right after 

1416
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:21,280
Michaela was born, we moved to 
East Tennessee and we were 

1417
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:24,640
helping there. 
We as in not me, 3 year old me, 

1418
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:28,080
but we as in my family was 
helping at the church there. 

1419
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:31,720
And there was a lot of 
miraculous provision that even 

1420
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:34,880
made that a possibility when 
when Dad was working and things 

1421
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,360
of that nature. 
But we were there. 

1422
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:41,760
I grew up in, in a home where my
mom was serving as a church 

1423
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:44,680
secretary for the majority of 
the time we were in Greenville 

1424
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:47,680
and Dad was heavily involved in 
ministry. 

1425
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:50,120
So as he alluded to, we were at 
the church pretty much all the 

1426
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:53,480
time. 
But while we were there, I got 

1427
01:23:53,480 --> 01:23:56,320
the, I got the Holy Ghost of the
Children's Rally that was in 

1428
01:23:56,320 --> 01:24:01,400
Bristol, TN when I was 7. 
It was obviously one of these 

1429
01:24:01,440 --> 01:24:04,560
kind of tailored services for 
kids getting the Holy Ghost. 

1430
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:09,000
I remember, you know, just 
feeling the need to respond to 

1431
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,000
what the, the speaker had been 
teaching about. 

1432
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:13,560
And I said, OK, we'll go to the 
altar and see what happens. 

1433
01:24:13,960 --> 01:24:17,240
And before you know it, you've 
got, you know, 20 people trying 

1434
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:20,560
to pray with you and, and God 
just beginning to move in a in a

1435
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:23,600
way that we've experienced so 
many times since. 

1436
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:27,520
But after, after seeing that 
I'd, I'd been raised right and 

1437
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:30,040
taught that baptism was 
essential for salvation. 

1438
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:32,840
So as soon as I got back from 
that children's rally, we had a 

1439
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:36,640
conversation with pastor about 
getting baptized in Jesus name. 

1440
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:40,040
So about a Sunday after that, I 
was baptized in this massive 

1441
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:43,320
horse through because the church
could afford a horse through. 

1442
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:45,680
We didn't have a big nice 
baptistry. 

1443
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:50,160
The water was rather chilly 
because it was hosed water that 

1444
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:54,360
was ran straight out of the tap 
from the outside, but an awesome

1445
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:56,320
experience nonetheless. 
And sins remitted. 

1446
01:24:56,440 --> 01:24:57,360
Yeah. 
Goosebumps, huh? 

1447
01:24:57,360 --> 01:24:58,600
Yeah, definite. 
Definite. 

1448
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:03,360
Goosebumps in that moment. 
So we spent some time, you know,

1449
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:06,240
there in Greenville, and then we
moved to Asheville. 

1450
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:10,000
And Dad alluded to this, but in 
Asheville, there was some 

1451
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:15,440
outside influence that was not 
the best in terms of my kind of 

1452
01:25:15,440 --> 01:25:17,840
Christian life. 
While I never deviated from 

1453
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:22,000
going to church, my, I would 
argue that my heart deviated 

1454
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:27,400
from wanting to be in church. 
I was in my parents home, which 

1455
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:31,320
was you're going to church and, 
and to some extent you're going 

1456
01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:34,040
to worship and you're going to 
respond to the word and you're 

1457
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:37,960
going to altar call. 
I'm kidding, but you know that 

1458
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:40,560
nothing ever deviated from, OK, 
I won't go to church, but there 

1459
01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:43,800
was definitely a a separation of
my heart from where God wanted 

1460
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:47,080
it to be. 
I wouldn't say full blown 

1461
01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:50,240
backsliding necessarily, but 
definitely not in the pursuit of

1462
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:52,880
the relationship that I should 
have been in at that point. 

1463
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:54,720
Having the Holy Ghost for six 
years, right? 

1464
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:58,600
So All in all, we ended up 
moving to Alabama. 

1465
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:01,160
We got involved pretty heavily 
in ministry when we were in 

1466
01:26:01,160 --> 01:26:05,080
Athens and 1st Church. 
Once again in a school 

1467
01:26:05,080 --> 01:26:08,560
situation, some semi negative 
influence led me to do some 

1468
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:12,640
rather stupid things that 
resulted in me getting in some 

1469
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:15,160
rather silly trouble. 
Not the trouble itself, the 

1470
01:26:15,160 --> 01:26:17,040
punishment was justified with 
the crime. 

1471
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:20,200
But anyway, under the blood, 
under the blood, under the blood

1472
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:23,800
as as we say. 
But then, you know, obviously 

1473
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:26,040
life events and circumstances 
that we talked about a few 

1474
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:29,000
moments ago brought us to to 
Lifegate, which is really where 

1475
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:34,320
formidable ministry formation 
years begin to happen under the 

1476
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:37,520
under the pastorship of 
obviously Brother Penton. 

1477
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:43,840
So kind of unique circumstances 
being in in music ministry where

1478
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,600
the pastor's wife was the music 
minister and being best friends 

1479
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:51,720
with both of the pastor's kids 
allowed me to be around Pastor a

1480
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:56,680
lot. 
And that mattered a ton because 

1481
01:26:56,680 --> 01:27:00,040
even when we were being silly 
and trying to just bug him for 

1482
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:04,920
absolutely no reason, all that 
under the blood stuff that Colby

1483
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:09,320
can probably talk more to than I
can, but you know, silly, silly 

1484
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,320
things that we were doing to 
bother Brother Penton. 

1485
01:27:11,320 --> 01:27:17,280
There was an exposure there that
has drastically altered the way 

1486
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:19,040
that I look at life and 
ministry. 

1487
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:22,200
There was somebody who said one 
time that in a relation to 

1488
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:25,400
Elijah and Elijah that some 
things are taught and other 

1489
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:28,920
things are caught, meaning that 
your proximity to the right kind

1490
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:32,800
of people often will give you 
lessons in life that that that 

1491
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:35,560
can't be a classroom setting. 
You just witnessed the way that 

1492
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:39,880
somebody like Pastor Penton 
responds in a moment of crisis 

1493
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:43,480
or in the moment of necessity of
prayer, in the moment of 

1494
01:27:43,480 --> 01:27:45,120
managing something at the 
church. 

1495
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:47,720
So I kind of was exposed to 
that. 

1496
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:50,960
And then obviously Dad has has 
played a pretty key part in, in 

1497
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:53,680
church leadership over the years
as well. 

1498
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:55,560
So you've kind of seen both 
sides of that. 

1499
01:27:56,400 --> 01:28:00,840
But I, I do a tribute a lot of 
my kind of ministerial maturity,

1500
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:04,080
if anybody wants to call it 
that, to Brother Penton. 

1501
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,760
I was raised in an Apostolic 
home and I give tremendous honor

1502
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:10,000
there. 
But as it pertains to anything 

1503
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,560
about the man I am today, I've 
been, I was blessed to have an 

1504
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:17,760
incredible pastor at at Lifegate
for 15 years that that led us 

1505
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:21,040
kind of to this point. 
Whether it was church building 

1506
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:24,600
projects and hanging out till 
10:00 PM at night or going with 

1507
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:27,040
him to pick up a church van or, 
or whatever it is. 

1508
01:28:27,040 --> 01:28:31,000
There's a lot that gets exposed 
when somebody who has a burden 

1509
01:28:31,480 --> 01:28:34,200
for the lost and for ministry 
is, is who's pouring into you. 

1510
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:39,440
Yeah. 
Have a question? 

1511
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:45,600
I'm a preface it so OK, What? 
Yeah. 

1512
01:28:45,960 --> 01:28:49,800
I'm a preface it so. 
OK, so when I had walked out of 

1513
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,880
church, a lot of it had to do 
with different hurt and 

1514
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:57,760
different opinions of ministry. 
And a lot of it's probably from 

1515
01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:02,520
my own vanity because when I was
16/17/18 I wanted to be a big 

1516
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:03,920
preacher. 
You know, that was it. 

1517
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:06,840
And I think that was from my 
vanity and everything. 

1518
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:10,920
Well, we get out of church and 
everything and, and I'm going to

1519
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:14,920
be transparent with you. 
We're up there not really living

1520
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:17,320
for God, going to church once a 
month at First Church in 

1521
01:29:17,320 --> 01:29:20,760
Nashville. 
And I heard the news that you'd 

1522
01:29:20,760 --> 01:29:24,840
got elected to youth secretary. 
And again, full transparency and

1523
01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:28,160
forgive me in the past, but I 
was like, this is terrible. 

1524
01:29:28,240 --> 01:29:30,960
This is so terrible. 
Seth's going to be that guy that

1525
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,800
I absolutely can't stand. 
He's going to be a career 

1526
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,560
preacher, politician person, 
right? 

1527
01:29:37,480 --> 01:29:40,040
And I was like, this is just 
terrible news, blah, blah, blah.

1528
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:42,920
And all of this. 
We get back in church and I see 

1529
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:46,440
kind of the changes that you'd 
made still felt that way a 

1530
01:29:46,440 --> 01:29:47,760
little bit. 
Like when we first come back to 

1531
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:48,880
church, I'm like, I mean, come 
on. 

1532
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:52,760
You know, I want to ask you 
about. 

1533
01:29:53,480 --> 01:29:55,960
We see it so much. 
And and my dad, I give him 

1534
01:29:55,960 --> 01:29:59,000
credit for this because back 
story on him, I don't know if he

1535
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,720
covered this. 
He was in a position in Oklahoma

1536
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:07,040
where it made no sense logically
for him to leave because he 

1537
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:09,760
really could have just had it, 
had it made set up there. 

1538
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:13,680
And who knows where if he's 
continuing on at viewing the 

1539
01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,920
church as a career path where 
that could have taken him. 

1540
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:19,960
And I liken that to your story 
here. 

1541
01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:22,840
There's really no reason where 
you're at. 

1542
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:26,040
Alabama's cost of living, maybe 
I'm wrong, but I feel like it's 

1543
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,000
a lot cheaper than 
Massachusetts. 

1544
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:31,920
You tell me a lot's a word. 
That could be used. 

1545
01:30:32,440 --> 01:30:34,000
OK, yeah. 
And so that's not. 

1546
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:38,680
The question Walk me through 
what? 

1547
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:41,600
What's God talking to you? 
About because to me you've 

1548
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:45,920
always been such a logical 
person like way better than me 

1549
01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:48,920
I'm way too ADHD on it and you 
were one that you've got it all 

1550
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:51,440
planned out. 
I'm doing this you said what you

1551
01:30:51,440 --> 01:30:53,280
were doing in school and then 
you did it. 

1552
01:30:53,280 --> 01:30:56,840
I had like 20-9 different majors
and didn't graduate with any of 

1553
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:58,800
them. 
You said this, I'm going to do 

1554
01:30:58,800 --> 01:30:59,880
this. 
I've planned it out. 

1555
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:03,560
And then I feel like God asked 
you to do something that 

1556
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:07,040
logically doesn't make sense. 
Talk to me about that. 

1557
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:07,800
Sure. 
Yeah. 

1558
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:13,360
It's it's a great question. 
So yeah, I, I, I would consider 

1559
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:17,320
myself fairly logical and more 
of a planner than I ever thought

1560
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:21,320
I was going to be. 
Left to my own devices, I'm a 

1561
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:26,880
whole lot more charismatic and 
free willing. 

1562
01:31:27,480 --> 01:31:31,440
If my wife listens to this, she 
will chuckle because even today 

1563
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:33,320
I was like, hey, what are we 
doing tomorrow? 

1564
01:31:33,480 --> 01:31:35,880
I need to know. 
I need to know. 

1565
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:40,960
Where my time's going? 
But yeah, I, I, I agree a lot of

1566
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:46,960
my life has been fairly planned 
and executed to plan what Kobe 

1567
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:49,240
was alluding to. 
There is when I first got into 

1568
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:51,800
college, I, I had the plan. 
I was like, I'm going to major 

1569
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:55,800
in finance. 
I'm going to get a promotion at 

1570
01:31:55,800 --> 01:31:59,800
the bank that I was working at 
at the time and I'm going to be 

1571
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:02,280
the manager of that bank and 
that's going to be the career 

1572
01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:04,800
path. 
And that exact thing happened. 

1573
01:32:05,120 --> 01:32:07,760
And then I realized I didn't 
want to be in banking. 

1574
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:12,360
So a, a couple of really hard 
lessons about no matter how hard

1575
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:15,960
I plan, sometimes I don't know 
what's best is, is part of how 

1576
01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:20,560
that tailors. 
But you, you know, in the, in 

1577
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:25,440
the kind of season before we 
moved to Massachusetts, there 

1578
01:32:25,440 --> 01:32:30,560
was about a year and a half to 
two years where we were really 

1579
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:32,800
involved in ministry. 
We were serving as as youth 

1580
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:36,040
pastor here locally and then as 
you secretary for the Alabama 

1581
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:38,960
district. 
And we're loving every aspect of

1582
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:41,360
that. 
We were tremendously honored to 

1583
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:43,880
be in that position. 
It was not something that I ever

1584
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:47,040
thought I would advocate for, 
but I enjoyed it. 

1585
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:49,960
The work was fun, the team was 
great, and, and we really did 

1586
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:52,960
see God do some awesome things 
in the lives of young people 

1587
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:54,800
both locally and at the district
level. 

1588
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:58,880
And for all intents and 
purposes, the logic says do that

1589
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,840
until you're 36 and then watch 
what God, you know, wants to do 

1590
01:33:01,840 --> 01:33:03,240
in your life. 
And that would be great. 

1591
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:06,480
And I honestly could have done 
that because I really enjoyed 

1592
01:33:06,480 --> 01:33:09,680
youth ministry and, and even 
visiting this weekend, seeing 

1593
01:33:09,680 --> 01:33:13,160
some of these young people that 
we were their youth leaders that

1594
01:33:13,160 --> 01:33:16,760
are now hyphen and, and some of 
them are getting married and 

1595
01:33:16,760 --> 01:33:19,080
things that, you know, crazy. 
It makes you feel old. 

1596
01:33:20,440 --> 01:33:22,360
But you know, seeing that, it's 
just like, that's awesome to 

1597
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:23,960
see. 
It's, you know, I still have a 

1598
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:28,360
burden for that to some extent. 
But you know, for about a year 

1599
01:33:28,360 --> 01:33:32,960
and a half, God began to kind of
make me rather uncomfortable 

1600
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:37,240
with the status quo of ministry 
and started to kind of make me 

1601
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:43,160
wonder what what wouldn't I do 
if he asked me to? 

1602
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:49,120
And I kind of threw a series of 
some incredible messages and 

1603
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:53,040
services and prayer time, kind 
of came to the conclusion that, 

1604
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:56,440
you know what, I don't know God,
if there's anything that if you 

1605
01:33:56,440 --> 01:33:58,280
asked me to do it, that I would 
say no. 

1606
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:03,640
And I chuckle at that now 
because then he's like, OK, how 

1607
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:08,960
about this? 
And we were in a North American 

1608
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:15,000
Youth Congress service in 2023. 
And as audible as I have ever 

1609
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:17,920
heard the voice of the Lord 
speak to me, He said. 

1610
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:22,040
I need you to move to the 
Boston, MA metro area and plan a

1611
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:25,480
church. 
And I'm like I. 

1612
01:34:25,480 --> 01:34:28,800
Don't know what that means. 
My pastor. 

1613
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:29,880
Is a. 
Church planner. 

1614
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:32,520
If it has to go that way, that's
going to be exceptionally 

1615
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:35,000
difficult. 
What are you talking about? 

1616
01:34:35,720 --> 01:34:38,800
Have you lost your mind? 
And it's as if all these other 

1617
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:42,800
life lessons that have happened 
about how God knew everything 

1618
01:34:42,800 --> 01:34:45,800
and has planned everything out 
way more effectively than I ever

1619
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:48,880
could. 
It's like that all went out the 

1620
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:52,080
window. 
But I, I was like, you know, I 

1621
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:55,800
was very moved in the moment and
highly motivated and I, I wanted

1622
01:34:55,800 --> 01:35:01,360
to, to bounce it off of some, 
some very critical thinking 

1623
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:05,200
people and some spiritual 
mentors that I trusted. 

1624
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:07,600
So that obviously was Pastor 
Penton. 

1625
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:15,600
And then my dad and I had called
dad and I said, Hey, I felt 

1626
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:18,480
something in service. 
I wanted to share it with you so

1627
01:35:18,480 --> 01:35:20,360
that you can be praying about it
with me. 

1628
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:24,720
And I got to be honest, most 
life decisions I make anymore, I

1629
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:29,520
do that with dad because I don't
want to leave it to my own 

1630
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:33,960
devices to have the arrogance to
say I've heard from God and this

1631
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:38,080
is exactly what it is without 
having any spiritual counsel 

1632
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:41,720
that could tell me no. 
And obviously pastor serves in 

1633
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:45,640
that role as well. 
So I, I told dad to be thinking 

1634
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:48,480
and praying about it. 
And I think dad, you can correct

1635
01:35:48,480 --> 01:35:50,640
me if I'm wrong, but your first 
response was, have you talked to

1636
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:52,880
pastor about this yet? 
And I said, I haven't, but I've,

1637
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:55,160
I've got some time scheduled 
next week to do so. 

1638
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:59,400
And Amber and I met with, with 
brother and sister Penton and 

1639
01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:06,120
said, you know, hey, I know this
sounds crazy, but we feel called

1640
01:36:06,120 --> 01:36:10,440
to, to Boston, MA to go and 
plant a church. 

1641
01:36:11,320 --> 01:36:17,320
And for those who know, brother 
Penton is extremely logical and 

1642
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:22,840
is extremely analytical. 
And it almost like most of the 

1643
01:36:22,840 --> 01:36:25,120
time, it's like you can't really
surprise him because he almost 

1644
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:27,280
expects everything that you 
would that you would throw at 

1645
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:30,360
him. 
And he almost kind of met it 

1646
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:33,040
with like a oh, OK, that makes 
sense. 

1647
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:36,080
And like I, I. 
Didn't like. 

1648
01:36:36,440 --> 01:36:40,040
In all my years of, of, of him 
being my pastor, I didn't really

1649
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:43,640
know how to respond to that. 
He then followed it up with 

1650
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:45,920
like, OK, let's be strategic. 
Let's pray about it. 

1651
01:36:45,920 --> 01:36:48,240
Let's make sure we make some 
steps toward what this is. 

1652
01:36:48,240 --> 01:36:51,320
And, and really feel after what 
God wants you to do 'cause, you 

1653
01:36:51,320 --> 01:36:54,000
know, he was cautioning against 
like this kind of concept of 

1654
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:57,600
just like a spiritual high about
something and, or conflating a 

1655
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:00,520
burden for an area with a 
calling to an area because there

1656
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:04,240
is a difference. 
And, and you know, he was like, 

1657
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:06,120
we'll be praying with you. 
We'll see what opens. 

1658
01:37:06,120 --> 01:37:08,800
And he also gave me some logical
steps to touch base with some 

1659
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:12,080
people in the area and 
encouraged us to take a trip up 

1660
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:15,200
there. 
So after that conversation, I 

1661
01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:18,200
called dad and I'm like, hey, 
you know, this is, this is what 

1662
01:37:18,200 --> 01:37:21,880
he said. 
And, and dad was like, OK, and, 

1663
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:25,440
and dad shared some other stuff 
with me about kind of what he 

1664
01:37:25,440 --> 01:37:29,080
had felt in prayer. 
And, you know, so we, we kind of

1665
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:31,680
get more specific and strategic 
about, OK, how is this even 

1666
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:35,480
going to happen? 
Because as you alluded to, I'm 

1667
01:37:35,480 --> 01:37:40,040
as I'm a youth leader locally 
enjoying that God is good. 

1668
01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:45,640
We're making an impact and then 
feeling that I, I feel like we 

1669
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:49,040
had a lot of local 
responsibility that I didn't 

1670
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:51,520
want to just like cut ties and 
say, all right, see you guys 

1671
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:54,160
later. 
I'm out because obviously, well,

1672
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:56,600
obviously this was, this was our
home church, right? 

1673
01:37:56,600 --> 01:37:58,680
We love the people here, still 
do. 

1674
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:03,320
And, and I was also in a 
district role at the time where 

1675
01:38:03,320 --> 01:38:06,160
I had some very specific 
responsibilities that would have

1676
01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:08,480
been kind of messed up. 
So as the as the kind of 

1677
01:38:08,480 --> 01:38:11,840
timeline goes on, I get some 
guidance from Pastor Penton that

1678
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:15,080
it would be OK to not let my 
name run for re election for 

1679
01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:19,440
youth secretary. 
And locally there was some other

1680
01:38:19,440 --> 01:38:22,480
people that were casually made 
aware of the possibility to to 

1681
01:38:22,480 --> 01:38:24,400
help us pray about it. 
You know, folks like yourself, 

1682
01:38:24,400 --> 01:38:31,120
folks like Cam and just 
gradually stuff started to 

1683
01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:34,280
progress. 
And what I've, what I've come to

1684
01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:38,800
realize in the last two years is
that God is. 

1685
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:41,720
So in control of. 
Everything and nothing ever 

1686
01:38:41,720 --> 01:38:45,880
catches him by surprise that 
he'll just blow your mind 

1687
01:38:45,880 --> 01:38:48,440
sometimes with exactly how 
something will work out. 

1688
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:53,440
So youth camp was the last week 
of June and this is in 2024. 

1689
01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:58,040
And I had talked to Pastor 
Penton a couple weeks before 

1690
01:38:58,040 --> 01:39:01,600
that and he said, you know, hey,
what are you feeling on when you

1691
01:39:01,600 --> 01:39:03,640
think you should list your house
if you're actually thinking 

1692
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:07,680
you're going to end up moving? 
And I said, well, I think maybe 

1693
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:09,160
we should lift it listed in 
July. 

1694
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:10,720
He said, you should list it in 
July. 

1695
01:39:11,120 --> 01:39:14,160
And I said, OK. 
And he and he said, Seth, I 

1696
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:16,840
don't want to put any pressure 
on you, but I felt in prayer. 

1697
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:20,360
And I told my wife the other day
that you'll be on the ground in 

1698
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:26,800
the Boston metro by September. 
And I was like, OK, it's, it's 

1699
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:28,560
kind of getting real at this 
moment, right? 

1700
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:32,640
So we get back from youth camp. 
We list our house on July 1st 

1701
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:35,640
and we had like 8 viewings that 
week. 

1702
01:39:35,760 --> 01:39:38,840
We have an offer by July 3rd. 
We count our offer on July 4th 

1703
01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:43,520
and they sign what we asked them
for on July 5th and we luckily 

1704
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:46,280
got the closing extended to 
August 30th because I had no 

1705
01:39:46,280 --> 01:39:49,520
idea where I was moving. 
We still had to figure that part

1706
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:51,760
out right? 
So you start doing the math, 

1707
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:57,040
this house sells and you know we
close on August 30th. 

1708
01:39:57,280 --> 01:40:01,400
I I make the long drive. 
The Cam was awesome to go with 

1709
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:03,400
me and give me somebody that 
would keep me awake. 

1710
01:40:04,440 --> 01:40:07,080
As our stuff was moving and I 
put my wife and son on an 

1711
01:40:07,080 --> 01:40:10,280
airplane because I didn't want 
to be that cruel iron fisted 

1712
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:13,800
father that said, no, you're 
going to cry the whole way to 

1713
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:17,880
Massachusetts. 
But and and, and lo and behold, 

1714
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:19,840
as as Pastor Vince said, he 
said, I think you'll be on the 

1715
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:23,880
ground by September. 
We moved to Labor Day weekend. 

1716
01:40:25,480 --> 01:40:28,720
You know that that weekend we 
were, we were in our apartment. 

1717
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:33,240
It was like August 31st is when 
I was able to drop the first set

1718
01:40:33,240 --> 01:40:34,840
of stuff off. 
Now, granted, we stayed in a 

1719
01:40:34,840 --> 01:40:37,960
hotel the first two days while 
we're waiting on the movers to 

1720
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:43,240
get there, but just just 
unbelievable how God open open 

1721
01:40:43,240 --> 01:40:50,240
that door in terms of just his 
total provision to the cause of 

1722
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:52,720
how we ended up there. 
But I think dad had something to

1723
01:40:52,720 --> 01:40:54,120
add. 
So yeah. 

1724
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:57,840
So I just want to. 
It it's, it's crazy how things 

1725
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:00,440
happen. 
I mean, we've heard pastor pens 

1726
01:41:01,160 --> 01:41:07,280
stories about how they had no 
idea, you know, where they were 

1727
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:09,720
going to be, where the church 
was going to be, where they were

1728
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:12,640
going to live. 
Your dad didn't have a job when 

1729
01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:15,920
he first came here, you know, 
and, you know, and, and where 

1730
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:18,400
he's ended up now. 
And there's a couple things I 

1731
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:20,040
want to say. 
One thing I want to say before I

1732
01:41:20,320 --> 01:41:27,400
before I forget and before we 
end this podcast, the impact and

1733
01:41:27,400 --> 01:41:28,160
the. 
Timing. 

1734
01:41:29,280 --> 01:41:33,840
For your dad, for this church, 
for this church family, for your

1735
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:40,040
family, for all of y'all. 
God just works everything out in

1736
01:41:40,040 --> 01:41:44,880
a perfect timing. 
You know, when Vicki and I first

1737
01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:50,360
started talking, you know, it 
was around the same time she 

1738
01:41:51,000 --> 01:41:56,920
started thinking about visiting 
and, and so when we knew we were

1739
01:41:56,920 --> 01:41:59,520
getting married, we were 
starting to decide, all right, 

1740
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:03,280
we going to church in Athens, we
going to church in Madison and, 

1741
01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:08,680
and I prayed and I fasted about 
it and I met with your dad and I

1742
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:13,000
met with Bishop Craft and, and 
we talked, talked it through. 

1743
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:22,120
But I knew that Vicki being knew
she needed your dad and your mom

1744
01:42:22,440 --> 01:42:26,680
and she needed their 
personality, their mentality. 

1745
01:42:27,160 --> 01:42:30,320
Pastors always said it, and he's
never deviated from it. 

1746
01:42:30,480 --> 01:42:34,160
He deals with people where they 
are and helps them along their 

1747
01:42:34,160 --> 01:42:36,440
way, and that's what he's always
done. 

1748
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:41,040
So I want to, before I forget, I
wanted to make sure and give 

1749
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:46,520
credit to Pastor Penton, who 
didn't know a whole lot about 

1750
01:42:46,520 --> 01:42:51,240
me, didn't have a lot of people 
he could call that he knew to 

1751
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:57,000
see what kind of man I was. 
He was tough on me when we met 

1752
01:42:57,000 --> 01:43:00,080
with him and started talking 
about marriage because he was 

1753
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:04,120
protecting my wife. 
This was his St. this was his 

1754
01:43:04,120 --> 01:43:06,600
new convert and he was going to 
protect her. 

1755
01:43:06,920 --> 01:43:10,720
And, and I, and I love him for 
that because he was looking out 

1756
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:14,360
for her and he wasn't really 
worried about me. 

1757
01:43:14,440 --> 01:43:16,280
He was looking out for her at 
the time. 

1758
01:43:16,280 --> 01:43:21,520
And, and that's great, but just 
the way that, the way that 

1759
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:27,560
Pastor Penton, sister Penton, 
your whole family, the way that 

1760
01:43:29,080 --> 01:43:33,080
we were welcomed in and then 
entrusted, the way that he 

1761
01:43:33,080 --> 01:43:36,360
trusted me. 
Pastor's not going to let 

1762
01:43:36,360 --> 01:43:39,880
anybody behind his pulpit. 
And you know, he's, he's 

1763
01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:42,480
particular about who preaches in
this church. 

1764
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:46,680
And he, he, he allowed, he's 
allowed me that privilege many 

1765
01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:49,240
times. 
And so I wanted to make sure 

1766
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:51,720
mention that. 
But back to what Seth was 

1767
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:57,200
talking about with the way God 
works everything out, when we 

1768
01:43:57,200 --> 01:44:01,920
were in Carthage, TN, we went to
Greenville, Tennessee to visit 

1769
01:44:02,120 --> 01:44:04,280
because my sister and my 
brother-in-law had gotten back 

1770
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:06,720
in church about a year before I 
did. 

1771
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:11,320
My sister wrote me this big long
letter and I wouldn't even open 

1772
01:44:11,320 --> 01:44:13,480
it because I knew what it was 
going to be about. 

1773
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:19,640
And so anyway. 
We went up to visit. 

1774
01:44:20,360 --> 01:44:25,040
After we got back in church and 
man, on the way while I was in 

1775
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:27,200
that service, I was like, I'm 
supposed to be here. 

1776
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:30,200
I was supposed to be helping 
with this church because it was 

1777
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:33,640
it was similar to what we had. 
I mean, it was we had like 30 

1778
01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:35,560
people. 
They had like 30 people going to

1779
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:38,120
church there. 
And so on the way back from East

1780
01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:40,960
Tennessee to Middle Tennessee, 
you know, about a 2 1/2 three 

1781
01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:44,280
hour drive us. 
I told Donna I was like, you 

1782
01:44:44,280 --> 01:44:47,040
know, I, I feel like God wants 
us to be in that church. 

1783
01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:48,600
And she says, you've lost your 
minds. 

1784
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:52,520
I'm not I'm not moving to the 
mountains. 

1785
01:44:53,000 --> 01:44:55,760
You know, I like it right here 
in the hills of Middle 

1786
01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:57,840
Tennessee. 
And I'm like, OK. 

1787
01:44:57,920 --> 01:45:00,640
And so I was like, all right, 
God, maybe I missed that. 

1788
01:45:00,640 --> 01:45:03,440
You know, I'm still learning how
to hear God, You know what I 

1789
01:45:03,440 --> 01:45:07,080
mean? 
And so it's like God just told 

1790
01:45:07,080 --> 01:45:08,800
me to pray about it. 
So I prayed about it. 

1791
01:45:09,160 --> 01:45:15,440
And one day I got home from work
and Donna said, hey, I want to 

1792
01:45:15,440 --> 01:45:18,400
tell you about a dream I had. 
I said, OK, She said I had a 

1793
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:22,080
dream that we were in 
Greenville, Tennessee, and that 

1794
01:45:22,080 --> 01:45:27,480
I was helping Sister Livingston 
decorate for a baby shower. 

1795
01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:34,120
I said, OK, she said, you don't 
think that means something? 

1796
01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:36,280
I said, well, what do you think 
it means? 

1797
01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:38,440
She said I think we're supposed 
to be up there. 

1798
01:45:38,440 --> 01:45:41,200
I said cool. 
So I started looking for a job. 

1799
01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:44,440
You know, I'm a truck driver. 
I'm a young man, perfect driving

1800
01:45:44,440 --> 01:45:46,440
record. 
Trucking industry's popping. 

1801
01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:48,200
They're looking for drivers 
everywhere. 

1802
01:45:48,600 --> 01:45:52,880
I can't find a job. 
I interviewed. 

1803
01:45:52,880 --> 01:45:55,280
With all kind of. 
People, I had all kind of 

1804
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:57,440
opportunities, but they were 
over the road. 

1805
01:45:57,520 --> 01:45:59,680
I knew I wasn't supposed to move
up there and then be gone all 

1806
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:04,160
the time. 
So I'm still hauling US mail 

1807
01:46:04,360 --> 01:46:07,080
from Nashville to Indianapolis. 
And while I'm in Indianapolis 

1808
01:46:07,080 --> 01:46:10,600
one day I'm I see a truck that 
I've never seen before company. 

1809
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:13,040
And I hollered at him on the CB 
radio. 

1810
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:15,320
I was like hey man, where are 
you based out of? 

1811
01:46:15,320 --> 01:46:20,440
And he said Milford, Virginia. 
I said y'all got any runs that 

1812
01:46:20,440 --> 01:46:23,280
break up up around Bulls Gap, 
Greenville, Tennessee. 

1813
01:46:24,240 --> 01:46:27,960
And he said man, my boss was 
just talking about a run there 

1814
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:30,040
yesterday. 
I was like really? 

1815
01:46:30,120 --> 01:46:33,120
I said, you know, can I have 
your boss's number? 

1816
01:46:33,120 --> 01:46:34,920
So he gave me the number. 
I called the boss man. 

1817
01:46:34,920 --> 01:46:40,000
He said he said we're bidding on
that today. 

1818
01:46:40,400 --> 01:46:44,320
And he said he said let me have 
your contact information. 

1819
01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:46,040
He said I'll call you and let 
you know. 

1820
01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:49,600
I said OK, you know, I told him 
all about my experience and 

1821
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:51,840
stuff. 
So he calls me the next day. 

1822
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:57,200
He said, hey, we got that bid. 
You ready to go to work? 

1823
01:46:57,320 --> 01:46:59,800
I said absolutely. 
And my company knew that I was 

1824
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:02,200
going to be moving the company I
was working for at the time. 

1825
01:47:02,200 --> 01:47:04,800
So they didn't need a notice. 
They already had a notice. 

1826
01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:06,680
I gave him like a three month 
notice. 

1827
01:47:07,280 --> 01:47:11,120
And so I said yes, Sir, I'm 
ready to go to work. 

1828
01:47:11,120 --> 01:47:13,240
I said when you need me there. 
He said I need you there Monday.

1829
01:47:13,360 --> 01:47:18,560
This was on a Saturday. 
I said like day after tomorrow. 

1830
01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:21,840
He said yeah, I need you there. 
I need you going to I need you 

1831
01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:25,240
to run the Nashville end of it 
and I'll have you meet this guy,

1832
01:47:25,240 --> 01:47:29,640
This guy. 
So I pack up and and I live with

1833
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:36,040
my sister for six weeks while 
I'm trying to find us a place to

1834
01:47:36,040 --> 01:47:39,840
live. 
And Donna is there with Seth and

1835
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:41,840
newborn Michaela. 
Michaela was six weeks old. 

1836
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:48,480
And so, you know, for I joke 
about it when we, when they, 

1837
01:47:48,560 --> 01:47:52,440
when I finally got them moved up
there, Michaela wouldn't have 

1838
01:47:52,440 --> 01:47:55,240
anything to do with me. 
And right before that, I was the

1839
01:47:55,240 --> 01:47:56,560
only one that could get her to 
sleep. 

1840
01:47:56,560 --> 01:47:58,840
But I mean, I, I joked that she 
was mad at me. 

1841
01:47:59,240 --> 01:48:02,200
You know, she was mad at me for 
that, for that first like 3 

1842
01:48:02,200 --> 01:48:04,000
months that we lived in 
Greenville, Tennessee. 

1843
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:07,160
But that's just a testament to 
how God works everything out in 

1844
01:48:07,160 --> 01:48:10,880
his timing. 
And what Seth alluded to is Seth

1845
01:48:10,880 --> 01:48:14,240
had been asking me or had asked 
me some time back to pray 

1846
01:48:15,480 --> 01:48:17,000
because he felt. 
Like God was. 

1847
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:20,560
Working something, didn't know 
what it was, didn't know if he 

1848
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:22,840
was supposed to go on the 
evangelistic field if he didn't 

1849
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:25,240
know God was going to call him. 
The pastor didn't know what it 

1850
01:48:25,240 --> 01:48:27,760
was going to what it was going 
to be, but he knew change was 

1851
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:29,760
coming. 
And I don't know if y'all have 

1852
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:36,040
ever felt that, but you will 
likely one day feel that. 

1853
01:48:36,040 --> 01:48:39,800
And don't be afraid of it. 
It's just, it's just God 

1854
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:43,000
preparing you for, for change. 
And it doesn't mean you're going

1855
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:45,400
to move. 
It just means, you know, the, 

1856
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:47,680
the, the course you're on may 
change a little bit. 

1857
01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:50,000
Maybe the ministry you're doing 
may change a little bit or you 

1858
01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:54,400
move into a different area. 
But so anyway, I've been praying

1859
01:48:54,400 --> 01:48:57,440
about it. 
And I told Seth this after he 

1860
01:48:57,440 --> 01:49:02,200
talked to pastor cause Seth, 
Seth text me that night. 

1861
01:49:02,480 --> 01:49:04,880
He said, I think I got some 
direction from the Lord. 

1862
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:10,800
And I said OK, And I said, 
what's that direction Course? 

1863
01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:16,560
You know, Seth hates when I do 
this and and I don't always do 

1864
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:18,480
it on purpose, but sometimes I 
do. 

1865
01:49:18,800 --> 01:49:23,680
I just give like little short 
answers and make him make him 

1866
01:49:23,680 --> 01:49:26,080
dig it out of me. 
The thumbs up emote is what he's

1867
01:49:26,080 --> 01:49:31,640
referring to. 
And and he said I think I'm 

1868
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:38,840
supposed to start a church And 
and I said OK, any idea where? 

1869
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:43,400
And there's a little bit of a. 
Pause and he texts me but I 

1870
01:49:43,400 --> 01:49:46,480
don't y'all texts was so y'all 
know there's never a pause 

1871
01:49:48,560 --> 01:49:51,920
responsiveness. 
Is next to godliness, yeah, And 

1872
01:49:51,920 --> 01:49:54,520
so is. 
Multiple texts, multiple times 

1873
01:49:54,520 --> 01:49:57,280
in a row. 
But anyway, so there was a 

1874
01:49:57,280 --> 01:50:01,360
little bit of a pause and and he
said Boston, MA. 

1875
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:04,520
I said, OK, have you talked to 
pastor? 

1876
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:07,040
He said, no. 
I said holler at me when you 

1877
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:10,160
have. 
And so when he did, I told him 

1878
01:50:10,160 --> 01:50:16,600
that maybe six weeks before that
I'm, I'm guessing on the 

1879
01:50:16,600 --> 01:50:23,000
timeline I was on the I was on 
the front porch sipping my 

1880
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:26,960
coffee on a Saturday morning. 
I usually get out there for 

1881
01:50:26,960 --> 01:50:29,640
about 1/2 hour before Vicki gets
out there when the weather's 

1882
01:50:29,640 --> 01:50:31,120
nice. 
And then Vicki comes out and 

1883
01:50:31,120 --> 01:50:34,880
joins me. 
So I've been praying and Vicki 

1884
01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:41,360
came out with her cup of coffee 
and I said, don't be surprised 

1885
01:50:41,360 --> 01:50:45,040
if our boy tells us he's going 
to be moving to Boston to start 

1886
01:50:45,040 --> 01:50:47,400
a church. 
And she said what? 

1887
01:50:47,680 --> 01:50:53,600
I said I don't know, maybe I 
maybe I'm tripping, but that's 

1888
01:50:53,680 --> 01:50:55,960
that's why you started her day 
off. 

1889
01:50:55,960 --> 01:50:58,520
With that, yeah, I said, I said 
that's. 

1890
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:00,520
What I that's what I felt this 
morning. 

1891
01:51:00,520 --> 01:51:04,400
So when Seth, when Seth told me 
that that he'd already talked to

1892
01:51:04,400 --> 01:51:08,560
pastor I, I shared with him that
that I, I already kind of knew. 

1893
01:51:09,400 --> 01:51:14,040
I just needed him to confirm it 
so well and and on. 

1894
01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:19,120
The topic of just how God 
provides we were, we were 

1895
01:51:19,120 --> 01:51:21,400
wondering where we were going to
live and we were kind of 

1896
01:51:21,400 --> 01:51:24,880
exploring different apartment 
complexes and, and in complete 

1897
01:51:24,880 --> 01:51:28,520
transparency, we knew where we 
were hoping to be. 

1898
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:31,360
I wanted to be around Boston. 
At the time, I still didn't have

1899
01:51:31,400 --> 01:51:34,760
clear definitive direction on 
exactly where God wants the 

1900
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:36,600
church. 
It's a very under churched area 

1901
01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:39,640
and you know, what doors are 
going to open, etcetera. 

1902
01:51:39,640 --> 01:51:43,720
And we were just like, I want to
live somewhere close enough to 

1903
01:51:43,720 --> 01:51:46,600
the city so that if I get up 
there and get a job in the city,

1904
01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:50,440
I'm not so far out that that's 
just a tax, right. 

1905
01:51:50,880 --> 01:51:55,320
And there in in Revere, which is
about 6 miles or so north of the

1906
01:51:55,320 --> 01:51:58,240
city, there was a multifamily 
unit for sale and in complete 

1907
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:00,880
for rent. 
And in complete transparency, 

1908
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:05,040
Alabama boy multifamily unit 
didn't jive. 

1909
01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:07,520
I didn't know what that was 
about because like, if I'm going

1910
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:11,840
to be in the office and this, 
you know, family has access to 

1911
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:14,160
my wife and kids, I wasn't all 
about that. 

1912
01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:18,040
And that was kind of scary and 
you know, but we did kind of a 

1913
01:52:18,040 --> 01:52:22,680
virtual interview with the guy 
who's my landlord and it just 

1914
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:26,000
once again, God just having 
everything literally in the palm

1915
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:28,000
of his hand. 
He said, we're, we're 

1916
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:30,640
interviewing, he shows us the 
apartment on like FaceTime and 

1917
01:52:30,640 --> 01:52:32,160
we're like, OK, this, this could
work. 

1918
01:52:32,160 --> 01:52:34,920
It's, it's enough space that we 
can make it work. 

1919
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:39,240
And the, the locations great. 
Both to the church that we would

1920
01:52:39,240 --> 01:52:43,240
be going to and to to the city 
in the event I got a job in the 

1921
01:52:43,240 --> 01:52:44,840
city, which I did at a later 
date. 

1922
01:52:44,840 --> 01:52:48,800
But we're like, OK, you know, 
well, tell us about yourself. 

1923
01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:52,280
And I and I kind of inherently I
kind of grilled the guy because 

1924
01:52:52,840 --> 01:52:55,280
like, you know, this is a person
that if I'm going to choose to 

1925
01:52:55,280 --> 01:52:57,640
live here, I'm effectively going
to be in his house. 

1926
01:52:58,160 --> 01:53:01,560
I don't need you being some kind
of weirdo that's going to be in 

1927
01:53:01,560 --> 01:53:04,520
the stuff that is exposing my 
kids to things that, you know, 

1928
01:53:05,280 --> 01:53:07,320
is damaging. 
And he kind of told me a little 

1929
01:53:07,320 --> 01:53:10,480
story, you know, his back story 
about what he does for work and 

1930
01:53:10,480 --> 01:53:14,160
who he is and and we were 
talking and he said, do you have

1931
01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:15,000
a family? 
I said, I do. 

1932
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:17,120
It's my wife and my son. 
He said, how old's your son? 

1933
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:18,480
And Maverick was two at the 
time. 

1934
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:23,400
And he said, he said, I don't 
want you to be freaked out, but 

1935
01:53:23,400 --> 01:53:24,440
my. 
Wife and I have. 

1936
01:53:24,440 --> 01:53:29,120
Prayed for a family with a 
little boy to eventually have 

1937
01:53:29,120 --> 01:53:31,160
this unit. 
And I said, what do you mean? 

1938
01:53:31,160 --> 01:53:34,280
He said, we have a little boy 
and the family that was here 

1939
01:53:34,280 --> 01:53:37,000
before their job took them to a 
different location and they had 

1940
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:38,880
a little boy and that was my 
son's best friend. 

1941
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:43,640
And, and he said, he said, you 
are Christian, I assume. 

1942
01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:46,400
I said, I'm actually moving 
there, Lord willing to 

1943
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:49,480
eventually plant a church. 
And he said we've prayed for 

1944
01:53:49,480 --> 01:53:52,680
you. 
And I was like. 

1945
01:53:53,640 --> 01:53:55,720
All right, send the lease 
paperwork over. 

1946
01:53:56,240 --> 01:53:59,520
No, I'm kidding. 
I, you know, then, you know, we 

1947
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:02,400
start talking about what rent is
and he, he knocks a little bit 

1948
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:05,120
off of it because of what we 
were doing and, and made it a 

1949
01:54:05,120 --> 01:54:08,200
little bit more feasible. 
And it's just, it's just been a 

1950
01:54:08,200 --> 01:54:11,000
a tremendous blessing. 
But that that piece of being 

1951
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:13,440
exactly where God wants you to 
be is, is something that's 

1952
01:54:13,440 --> 01:54:15,920
incredible. 
When we were still wondering how

1953
01:54:15,920 --> 01:54:20,400
we were going to move there, the
last kind of last ditch 

1954
01:54:20,400 --> 01:54:24,080
confirmation that it was right. 
Pastor Penton had encouraged 

1955
01:54:24,080 --> 01:54:29,240
Amber and I to take a trip to 
Boston to just do a site visit, 

1956
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:31,320
maybe walk around the city and 
pray a little bit. 

1957
01:54:31,320 --> 01:54:34,040
Make sure that this is right 
before you start making some 

1958
01:54:34,040 --> 01:54:36,880
real critical steps on the home 
front of, of preparing for that.

1959
01:54:37,440 --> 01:54:39,840
And, and he said, and go to 
church somewhere up there where 

1960
01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:42,080
you think you'll go to church 
and connect with the pastor. 

1961
01:54:42,080 --> 01:54:45,440
And, and I did and, and, and 
when we were getting on the 

1962
01:54:45,440 --> 01:54:49,320
plane to come home, I looked at 
Amber and I said, it doesn't 

1963
01:54:49,320 --> 01:54:52,320
feel like we're going home. 
It feels like I'm going on 

1964
01:54:52,320 --> 01:54:54,760
vacation away from where I'm 
supposed to be. 

1965
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:56,960
And she said, I feel the same 
way. 

1966
01:54:57,480 --> 01:55:00,520
And that was a difficult plane 
ride home because I knew that 

1967
01:55:00,520 --> 01:55:03,160
for the next 8 months, even 
though I was going to a place 

1968
01:55:03,160 --> 01:55:07,520
where my loving church family 
and loving family were, it's not

1969
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:11,080
where God wanted me, but in his 
time we would end up being 

1970
01:55:11,080 --> 01:55:15,920
there, which we have, obviously.
So yeah, God's just mind 

1971
01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:17,920
blowingly in control of 
everything. 

1972
01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:19,320
It's kind of incredible. 
Yeah. 

1973
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:22,880
And and I want. 
To touch on the I think some of 

1974
01:55:22,880 --> 01:55:26,080
us, we, we struggle with pride 
naturally as humans and maybe 

1975
01:55:26,080 --> 01:55:32,520
the people in this room, yeah, 
except for Mac, but no, we I 

1976
01:55:32,520 --> 01:55:35,280
think we all we can relate to 
that on struggling with pride 

1977
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:40,880
and the the whole story from 
each of you in this and then 

1978
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:43,920
even pastor, it'd be really 
easy. 

1979
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:46,520
You were a very vital piece of 
the clog here. 

1980
01:55:46,520 --> 01:55:50,000
And I think it's important for 
anybody in the ministry being 

1981
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:53,400
able to put the side, the put 
aside pride and selfishness, 

1982
01:55:53,400 --> 01:55:58,080
because it would be really easy 
when you're in a position of 

1983
01:55:58,320 --> 01:56:03,280
authority or leadership to sway 
somebody and be like, no, Seth, 

1984
01:56:03,280 --> 01:56:05,840
I don't know, actually, if 
that's right, you know, I'm 

1985
01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:09,760
going to think about it. 
And I think it's so important 

1986
01:56:09,760 --> 01:56:13,720
not just that he put his pride 
aside, but for you, it's, it's a

1987
01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:15,880
huge leap of faith. 
And then you keep talking about 

1988
01:56:15,880 --> 01:56:18,400
that. 
I think it's, it's so huge that 

1989
01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:22,400
first step, you know, and when 
you were talking about, oh, 

1990
01:56:22,400 --> 01:56:26,200
moving to Carolina and then it's
like, we have no idea how this 

1991
01:56:26,200 --> 01:56:28,240
is going to work out. 
You're talking about Boston. 

1992
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:31,000
Taking that faith says a lot 
about the character. 

1993
01:56:31,000 --> 01:56:35,160
And then for you raising your 
boys, stuff that you can instill

1994
01:56:35,160 --> 01:56:38,000
in them as well. 
And I think the whole story 

1995
01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:41,840
between you, your family, all 
that God has done for both of 

1996
01:56:41,840 --> 01:56:45,080
y'all is a story of faith and a 
testament to it. 

1997
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:49,360
I'd like to ask you guys one. 
More question real quick, 

1998
01:56:49,360 --> 01:56:52,440
Brother Mack. 
What strength do you draw from 

1999
01:56:52,440 --> 01:56:56,320
your father's testimony and 
character that has helped you? 

2000
01:56:58,520 --> 01:57:03,440
Well, I think I shared this when
we did Pops. 

2001
01:57:05,720 --> 01:57:12,360
Being a man of mercy and being a
man that doesn't judge others, I

2002
01:57:12,360 --> 01:57:15,680
strive every day to be better at
that. 

2003
01:57:17,080 --> 01:57:25,680
And so just just seeing him 
continue to be the same man that

2004
01:57:25,680 --> 01:57:29,320
he's always been through 
everything that he's been 

2005
01:57:29,320 --> 01:57:35,960
through, even even when I didn't
want to hear from him because he

2006
01:57:35,960 --> 01:57:38,160
was going to try to tell me I 
needed to be in church. 

2007
01:57:39,000 --> 01:57:44,920
But he, he never gave up on me. 
And he it, it wasn't like he had

2008
01:57:44,920 --> 01:57:51,640
a a desperate feeling about when
I was, when I was in the world. 

2009
01:57:52,120 --> 01:57:54,920
It was like he knew that I'd be 
back. 

2010
01:57:55,920 --> 01:58:00,400
I still don't comprehend that. 
And I asked him recently, Dad, 

2011
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:03,680
how did you do it? 
How did you do that? 

2012
01:58:03,880 --> 01:58:07,080
You know, he said, son, you just
got to keep loving and keep 

2013
01:58:07,080 --> 01:58:13,440
believing, you know, and my dad 
and I are very different in that

2014
01:58:13,440 --> 01:58:17,720
regard. 
He's, he's very low key now. 

2015
01:58:17,720 --> 01:58:20,440
Yeah. 
Growing up didn't want to make 

2016
01:58:20,440 --> 01:58:25,360
the man mad 'cause I mean, he, 
he'd make it rough on you, but 

2017
01:58:25,640 --> 01:58:28,720
he's always been low key. 
He just, he's non 

2018
01:58:28,720 --> 01:58:31,600
confrontational. 
He doesn't like confrontation. 

2019
01:58:33,240 --> 01:58:36,680
And he doesn't borrow trouble as
your dad's been talking about in

2020
01:58:36,680 --> 01:58:39,560
the lesson that we've been doing
on Wednesday nights, you know, 

2021
01:58:39,560 --> 01:58:42,920
don't go bar in trouble. 
My late wife used to tell me 

2022
01:58:42,920 --> 01:58:46,080
that all the time. 
I'm, I'm a, I'm a trouble 

2023
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:49,160
borrower. 
I create stuff to worry about, 

2024
01:58:49,240 --> 01:58:53,840
you know, if I'm not careful. 
So the way that he's always put 

2025
01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:56,800
his faith and trust in God, not 
knowing the next step, but 

2026
01:58:56,800 --> 01:59:01,360
knowing it's going to be all 
right, that's that's a big thing

2027
01:59:01,360 --> 01:59:03,000
that I've drawn from him for 
sure. 

2028
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:04,800
It says. 
I'd ask you the same. 

2029
01:59:04,800 --> 01:59:07,640
Question what, what, what 
strength have you drawn from 

2030
01:59:07,800 --> 01:59:09,960
your father's testimony and 
character? 

2031
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:14,040
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think.
There's a couple things to take 

2032
01:59:14,040 --> 01:59:16,280
from it. 
There's the lesson that dad is 

2033
01:59:16,280 --> 01:59:20,120
always taught is be a better man
than me. 

2034
01:59:20,680 --> 01:59:23,200
And I'm using, I'm using quotes 
because that's him saying that 

2035
01:59:23,200 --> 01:59:28,760
to me and the rest of the kids. 
Not to get sappy, but I, I don't

2036
01:59:28,760 --> 01:59:31,920
think he understands the 
challenge that that is because 

2037
01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:37,000
he's, he's quite awesome, as we 
well know, but also like as, as 

2038
01:59:37,000 --> 01:59:40,360
it pertains to lessons, 
especially in ministry, is 

2039
01:59:41,280 --> 01:59:44,600
faithfulness both to the House 
of God and in submission to your

2040
01:59:44,600 --> 01:59:49,440
pastoral authority. 
It's it's something that I've 

2041
01:59:49,440 --> 01:59:53,080
witnessed him do for years on 
end, and it's something that 

2042
01:59:53,080 --> 01:59:55,400
I've benefited from him doing 
it. 

2043
01:59:55,400 --> 01:59:59,840
And then even selfishly, me 
doing it has protected me from 

2044
01:59:59,840 --> 02:00:02,280
things that I didn't have to be 
exposed to because I was 

2045
02:00:02,280 --> 02:00:07,440
submitted to a pastor that that 
cared and and and invested in 

2046
02:00:07,440 --> 02:00:10,560
taught lessons. 
So the faithfulness, the 

2047
02:00:10,560 --> 02:00:13,680
submission, and then also just 
the the general continuity to 

2048
02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:16,760
just keep going regardless of of
what life throws at you. 

2049
02:00:16,760 --> 02:00:19,600
You know, we talked earlier 
about, you know, mom and the 

2050
02:00:19,600 --> 02:00:22,880
challenge that that was on the 
family and everything else. 

2051
02:00:22,880 --> 02:00:26,560
But going back through that, 
there was never a time where Dad

2052
02:00:26,560 --> 02:00:28,600
was like, yeah, I don't really 
feel like going to church today.

2053
02:00:28,600 --> 02:00:33,240
We're not going to do that. 
So just just that steadfastness,

2054
02:00:33,240 --> 02:00:35,880
that faithfulness and 
submission. 

2055
02:00:35,880 --> 02:00:40,440
And then the one that I'll also 
say is that his continual 

2056
02:00:40,440 --> 02:00:45,680
warning of, of pride being an 
interference to allowing God to 

2057
02:00:45,680 --> 02:00:50,160
use you and allowing humility to
really take control of 

2058
02:00:50,160 --> 02:00:53,320
situations has been always 
appreciated. 

2059
02:00:54,640 --> 02:00:58,280
And just that generalized voice 
of being able to. 

2060
02:00:59,040 --> 02:01:01,760
Yeah, he's, he's my dad and he's
my advocate and he wants to 

2061
02:01:01,760 --> 02:01:06,080
dream with me, but he's also a 
practical realist about some of 

2062
02:01:06,080 --> 02:01:08,000
the flaws that he knows that I 
may have. 

2063
02:01:08,720 --> 02:01:12,200
And he's like, Are you sure? 
You know, And that that's 

2064
02:01:12,200 --> 02:01:15,760
always, you know, needed and and
necessary and appreciated as it 

2065
02:01:15,760 --> 02:01:18,640
pertains to ministry pursuits 
all. 

2066
02:01:22,760 --> 02:01:23,920
Right. 
So I guess to close. 

2067
02:01:23,920 --> 02:01:27,560
This one out I, I do want to say
this one's a special one for me 

2068
02:01:27,560 --> 02:01:30,320
because this is the first one 
where the four of us were able 

2069
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:33,600
to get together and do this. 
And we were the, you were The 

2070
02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:36,080
Three Musketeers. 
And then I came, came along and 

2071
02:01:36,080 --> 02:01:39,200
come to 4 Musketeers. 
But we can do 2 point O on the 

2072
02:01:39,200 --> 02:01:40,640
north. 
Shore, if you guys want to come 

2073
02:01:40,640 --> 02:01:43,600
up 18 1/2 hours, well, we're 
we're as Colby says. 

2074
02:01:43,600 --> 02:01:46,320
Responding the new generation as
we go about it, you know, but. 

2075
02:01:48,400 --> 02:01:50,640
But. 
This is a great group and this 

2076
02:01:50,640 --> 02:01:53,040
is a group that's really meant a
lot to me even for even for 

2077
02:01:53,040 --> 02:01:56,640
brother Mac there, because I can
just remember we're talking 

2078
02:01:56,640 --> 02:01:59,120
about God orchestrating things. 
I can remember when I first 

2079
02:01:59,120 --> 02:02:02,920
started coming, I have to say 
coming back, but this, this 

2080
02:02:02,920 --> 02:02:05,160
group made such an impact on me 
growing up. 

2081
02:02:05,160 --> 02:02:08,560
And I feel like we made an 
impact on each other growing up.

2082
02:02:08,560 --> 02:02:10,840
I may have been the one that 
benefit the most from it, but 

2083
02:02:11,440 --> 02:02:14,000
I'll never forget, you know, 
just when I first came back and 

2084
02:02:14,280 --> 02:02:17,680
first started coming in And OK, 
now kind of like how brother Mac

2085
02:02:17,680 --> 02:02:20,360
had mentioned, and even for 
Seth, where you, where you 

2086
02:02:20,360 --> 02:02:23,120
walked away, your, your, you may
have still been going to church,

2087
02:02:23,120 --> 02:02:26,080
but your heart wasn't there. 
And so for me, when I first came

2088
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:28,320
back in, my heart was first 
starting to come back. 

2089
02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:35,280
It was this group that really 
drew my heart back into it and 

2090
02:02:35,320 --> 02:02:37,720
and and being able to have 
people who cared about me and 

2091
02:02:37,720 --> 02:02:39,480
letting the hooligan in the 
house and she's like, I don't 

2092
02:02:39,480 --> 02:02:42,520
even know who this kid is. 
And but outside of that, I mean,

2093
02:02:42,520 --> 02:02:45,840
I can remember when when, when 
Seth and me and him go for 

2094
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:48,200
drives. 
If you remember, we were the 

2095
02:02:48,200 --> 02:02:51,000
famous Krispy Kreme story, but 
you know, we it was we would 

2096
02:02:51,000 --> 02:02:53,600
talk for blood. 
Not that I. 

2097
02:02:53,600 --> 02:02:54,960
Like that one? 
That was funny. 

2098
02:02:54,960 --> 02:02:55,680
It's a funny one. 
We. 

2099
02:02:56,040 --> 02:02:57,360
Didn't do anything wrong. 
We almost got. 

2100
02:02:57,360 --> 02:02:58,680
Arrested for doing nothing. 
Wrong. 

2101
02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:02,840
What? 
Was I going to say, but you 

2102
02:03:02,840 --> 02:03:05,680
know, that that just made such 
an impact because I grew so much

2103
02:03:06,080 --> 02:03:08,120
and I think we we all grew 
together and it was just 

2104
02:03:08,120 --> 02:03:09,480
amazing. 
So I always think about, you 

2105
02:03:09,480 --> 02:03:12,040
know, when people talk about, 
you know, God's the Potter and 

2106
02:03:12,040 --> 02:03:14,480
and you're, you are this this 
masterpiece. 

2107
02:03:14,480 --> 02:03:17,520
And although God's handprints 
are all around you, that I do 

2108
02:03:17,520 --> 02:03:19,480
think that there are 
fingerprints and handprints from

2109
02:03:19,480 --> 02:03:24,640
people on there as well, not 
just God, but God used them to 

2110
02:03:25,000 --> 02:03:27,000
to mold you. 
So everything that you guys went

2111
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:30,240
through and how you got here to 
life, Kate, I mean, if you guys 

2112
02:03:30,240 --> 02:03:33,960
had not come here, I know the 
pens made a huge impact on me. 

2113
02:03:33,960 --> 02:03:37,840
But if the testing family had 
not done what they had done and 

2114
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:40,920
you guys individually doing what
you had done, gone through what 

2115
02:03:40,920 --> 02:03:43,280
you had gone through, there's no
way that I would still be here 

2116
02:03:43,320 --> 02:03:46,720
either. 
Because it was that that wide 

2117
02:03:46,720 --> 02:03:50,200
open arms that you guys had when
I came back along with the pens 

2118
02:03:50,200 --> 02:03:53,240
that made me say, OK, there's 
something here. 

2119
02:03:53,240 --> 02:03:57,800
I like this so sucking it up. 
On that one, but like. 

2120
02:03:57,800 --> 02:04:00,400
I said this, this is this is a 
big one for me because it's it's

2121
02:04:00,400 --> 02:04:02,680
this, this crew and and it means
a lot to me. 

2122
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:05,080
So this was one that I was 
excited to film. 

2123
02:04:06,280 --> 02:04:07,840
I just. 
You want to go ahead. 

2124
02:04:08,720 --> 02:04:09,640
No, you go ahead. 
OK. 

2125
02:04:09,640 --> 02:04:12,920
I I want to say. 
This too before before we close 

2126
02:04:12,920 --> 02:04:15,320
because I know we've been doing 
this for way longer than we 

2127
02:04:15,320 --> 02:04:19,880
intended but I warned y'all. 
I mean we both have the gift of 

2128
02:04:19,880 --> 02:04:22,040
gab. 
So I'm off work tomorrow so we 

2129
02:04:22,040 --> 02:04:23,040
can. 
We can go to. 

2130
02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:30,800
I am too, but I'm driving. 
But I want to, I want to it's, 

2131
02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:34,520
it's probably not an opportunity
that I'll get because I don't 

2132
02:04:34,520 --> 02:04:39,360
know what, how many people will 
listen to this and I don't know 

2133
02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:41,240
what young men will listen to 
this. 

2134
02:04:41,240 --> 02:04:45,160
So I want to take this 
opportunity selfishly to give a 

2135
02:04:45,160 --> 02:04:50,720
piece of advice to any young 
man, young woman, old man, old 

2136
02:04:50,720 --> 02:04:55,920
woman, anybody that is doing 
their best to live for God. 

2137
02:04:57,480 --> 02:05:05,920
I've been back in church now for
almost 30 years and for the last

2138
02:05:07,160 --> 02:05:12,680
nine months, 8 months, I have 
been more dedicated to a 

2139
02:05:12,680 --> 02:05:17,280
schedule. 
That I will not deviate. 

2140
02:05:17,280 --> 02:05:22,720
From I'm more disciplined with 
my prayer life and my Bible 

2141
02:05:22,720 --> 02:05:26,160
reading and more consistent 
timeline. 

2142
02:05:26,760 --> 02:05:33,520
I haven't missed a day in those 
months that that I pray, I read,

2143
02:05:33,560 --> 02:05:37,200
I pray again, I read again 
before I ever leave the house. 

2144
02:05:39,720 --> 02:05:44,360
There's no way. 
That we can avoid. 

2145
02:05:46,080 --> 02:05:50,400
Opening doors. 
That we don't want to open if we

2146
02:05:50,400 --> 02:05:53,760
don't do that and so I want. 
To stress the. 

2147
02:05:53,760 --> 02:05:58,720
Importance of and then it's not 
like I'm like I'm somebody 

2148
02:05:58,720 --> 02:06:01,680
special. 
I mean, I had learned this the 

2149
02:06:01,680 --> 02:06:04,440
hard way. 
So once again, everybody learned

2150
02:06:04,440 --> 02:06:09,440
from my mistake. 
Don't don't take a day off. 

2151
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:11,920
Don't take a day off. 
Don't. 

2152
02:06:12,360 --> 02:06:18,280
I mean, yeah, take a vacation, 
but and, and, and go like I'm 

2153
02:06:18,280 --> 02:06:21,040
getting ready to do you go to 
the mountains and have a few 

2154
02:06:21,040 --> 02:06:22,840
days with your wife, just the 
two of you. 

2155
02:06:23,240 --> 02:06:26,800
But I promise you in the 
morning, I'm going to have my 

2156
02:06:26,800 --> 02:06:28,440
prayer time. 
I'm going to have my reading 

2157
02:06:28,440 --> 02:06:30,960
time and I'm going to pray again
and I'm going to read again. 

2158
02:06:31,360 --> 02:06:33,560
And I'm probably going to pray 
again before I go to bed. 

2159
02:06:34,640 --> 02:06:39,720
And, and unfortunately, I'm 
admitting to whoever might 

2160
02:06:39,720 --> 02:06:46,560
listen to this that for the 
previous 28 years, I didn't do 

2161
02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:49,560
that as consistently as I have 
for the last nine months. 

2162
02:06:50,480 --> 02:06:55,920
And there is a huge difference 
in the peace that you have 

2163
02:06:56,600 --> 02:07:00,000
because everything you need is 
in the word of God. 

2164
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:06,520
And, and the way that prayer 
impacts our lives when we mix it

2165
02:07:06,520 --> 02:07:10,800
with the word of God, you can 
have direction for anything in 

2166
02:07:10,800 --> 02:07:13,360
your life. 
And so I just want to make sure 

2167
02:07:13,360 --> 02:07:19,920
I mentioned that don't deviate, 
make it make it a priority. 

2168
02:07:21,920 --> 02:07:26,360
Yes, we should have stopped 
right there and because that was

2169
02:07:26,360 --> 02:07:30,280
great and I should have actually
just spoke first, but I'm so 

2170
02:07:30,280 --> 02:07:33,920
thankful for you guys, thankful 
for the community and this is 

2171
02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:36,880
what I want as a dad for my 
kids. 

2172
02:07:38,120 --> 02:07:41,840
Before Seth showed up, me and 
Kim were just the two of me goes

2173
02:07:42,320 --> 02:07:47,880
and it was pretty lonely. 
You know, we needed that as much

2174
02:07:48,080 --> 02:07:50,640
as anyone else. 
We've all said how much you 

2175
02:07:50,640 --> 02:07:52,240
touched it, know that it was the
same thing. 

2176
02:07:52,240 --> 02:07:55,560
We needed that. 
And it it's what I hope happens 

2177
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for my kids, for our church 
families all across the world. 

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This is something God 
orchestrated and that community,

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something Cameron certainly has 
been really pushing that aspect 

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of community in our church, you 
know, loving your neighbor as 

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yourself. 
And I just want to say that I'm 

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thankful for both of you, for 
you 2 as well, and the bond that

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we've been able to have. 
And I pray that my boys grow up 

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in a similar situation where 
they have God fearing people 

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that they are close to that can 
help them through all the ups 

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and downs in life.