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As the world moves increasingly 
towards the mainstream adoption 

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of Bitcoin and other digital 
assets Moon, mortgage will make 

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it possible to materialize your 
assets in real estate, through 

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the collateralization of 
mortgages with Bitcoin and other

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digital assets. 
Mood mortgage will be launching 

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Lending Solutions to allow 
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their assets to purchase 
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properties. 
Mood mortgages crypto mortgage 

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will be launching soon for home 
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Colorado, and will be open to 
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the u.s. for investment 
properties. 

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Welcome to the future of 
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Visit mood mortgage dot IO 
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and learn more. 
Mood mortgage residential is 

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registered with the nmls under 
number two, three five, three, 

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three for the bitcoiners. 
Welcome back to bitcoin 

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magazine. 
We are excited to be sitting 

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with the best and the brightest 
the movers and the Shakers. 

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In the Bitcoin space. 
I am seek a general manager here

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at Bitcoin magazine and I am 
sitting across from Frank homes.

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The CEO of Hive Hive blockchain 
is one of the coolest and most 

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Innovative public miners out. 
Their hive has been moving 

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forward in terms of Polly 
bridging Bitcoin, mining and 

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proof of work in some of the 
most creative and interesting 

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ways in the space. 
Frank you and I before we got on

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we were just joking around with 
in all the craziness around ft x

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and the craziness that's 
happening in the public, Bitcoin

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mining industry, it really helps
to have some seasoned veterans. 

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Some people who have actually 
seen a real Market Cycles, not 

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just Bitcoin Market Cycles but 
actually real macro Cycles have 

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been through the the.com bubble 
that have kind of seen. 

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You know, everything that's kind
of happening from the tippity 

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top of a market all the way down
and how to navigate that 

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successfully, we are really 
excited to be sitting down with 

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you as a leader in the Bitcoin 
mining space. 

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But also one of those 
white-haired experts who is, you

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know, kind of coming into a very
young industry and and kind of 

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And folks how it's done. 
So Frank without further Ado, 

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would love to introduce you to 
the Bitcoin magazine audience 

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and learn a little bit more 
about what you're doing over at 

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Hive. 
Well, thank you for the very 

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flattering and kind comments, 
but there is a benefit for mage.

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But that benefit for my age is 
got to stay with Young Guns. 

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Like you to be invigorating. 
Keep my brain mind neurons. 

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Flaws blowing it up. 
You know, how is that happening?

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Where is it going? 
Things like that. 

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But there is an importance I 
think of At this. 

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And when Hive, give you the 
story of Hive, I'm a gold fund 

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manager, I'm a so we have other 
funds, but I'm a known for gold.

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I wrote a book on gold. 
And what I found interesting is 

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that the Old Testament of Fiat 
money and the concern that gold 

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bugs have is a sir, the same as 
Satoshi, some people that follow

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their real Bitcoin diehards, or 
as Michael sailor calls them 

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Hornets. 
They, they, they have the same 

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sort of concept of private 
property. 

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And now we have a digital asset 
besides a physical asset. 

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So I got interested in this 
space because I launched the 

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Jets ETF. 
I'm a money manager and I was 

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out the launch a Bitcoin ETF and
I recognize due to a ml concerns

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and kyc it wasn't really going 
to happen. 

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I went to Canada found out the 
same thing with the Securities 

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commissions up there. 
So what I we don't, what can I 

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do? 
How can I be position in this 

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space and friends of mine called
me from Vancouver and Said they 

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got these young guys of them. 
Got this idea of going into 

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taking public to raise a lot of 
capital for crypto Mining. 

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And and I've been doing this 
homework and I just came back 

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from the consensus event in New 
York City and I was shocked to 

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hear the keynote speaker, was 
Abigail Johnson, who is was a 

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former fund manager CFA, and ba 
and runs one of the largest 

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financial institutions in the 
world and she doesn't speak at 

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investment conferences, but she 
speaking at a block Chain crypto

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of that. 
And she's talking about the 

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significance of the importance 
of Bitcoin and she's mining 

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Bitcoin herself. 
So that gave me a confirmation 

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that I'm early and this is a 
great industry. 

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So that is the the the Genesis 
of that and I went in to say 

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okay I'll put up the seed 
Capital the first five million 

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dollars immediately, 25 million 
dollars. 

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More came in from the other 
co-investors and we launched 

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Hive is the first crypto Mining 
Company in the world. 

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And with that is the chairman 
really consumed with what was 

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the strategy. 
And when the ESG was coming out,

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and I know a lot about this 
concept that cause sustainable 

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mining for gold mining. 
I said, well, that's how that 

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Vision here. 
So, high came out, is not only 

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the first crypto Mining Company.
It also came out with a green 

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strategy that we were going to 
mine. 

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The first facilities, we 
purchased were in Iceland and I 

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said immediate cash flow. 
The Returns on invested Capital 

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were incredible compared to gold
mining this company. 

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It can be much more like a gold 
royalty company and where you 

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don't have to have thousands of 
employees. 

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You can have a small nucleus of 
intellectual capital and have 

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other contract people to be able
to manage those facilities. 

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So we started mining with 
geothermal energy and it was 

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Green in Iceland and then we 
branched out to go into Sweden. 

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Once again, it was green energy,
but here it's hydroelectricity. 

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And the Hydro Dam was like 500 
yards away from the facility and

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then during the crisis or 
Thousand eighteen. 

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I use it as a strategy to be 
able to acquire other distress 

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people especially coming into 
the having. 

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And so we bought a facility in 
Montreal and then we bought and 

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going to 2019, another big 
campus in New Brunswick which 

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we've expanded to up to 80 
megawatts and it's a beautiful 

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Campus of data centers. 
So that is really the sort of 

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the, the creation of it were the
first to put data centers on our

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balance sheet and I believe the 
data centers and independent 

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like we talked about Bitcoin 
being decentralized. 

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Gold is a decentralized asset 
just like Bitcoin is and its 

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really unique similarities. 
There's many differences but 

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there's also similarities and 
and I think it's really 

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positive. 
That's happening right now. 

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That one reason, why China 
kicked everyone out of Bitcoin, 

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mining is because they've been 
big buyers of gold and they want

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to have gold to back their 
currency so they can turn around

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and do trade with the Saudi 
Arabia which they just announced

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Good news about what's happening
like that, with other central 

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banks around the world buying 
gold. 

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As first move is just sets the 
path for Bitcoin. 

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It just sets the path is going 
to go down that as a 

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decentralised asset, as a global
trading. 

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I think is very significant 
long-term, so that's what I 

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launched it and I didn't 
couldn't launch an ETF, it was 

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the co-founding in the launching
the creation of high blockchain.

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Frank so much to unpack there, I
want to get into a little bit 

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more about the philosophy behind
Hive blockchain and some of the 

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different tenants that have made
you successful, despite a lot of

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kind of headwinds in recent 
months. 

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But before that, I find that one
of the most interesting elements

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about your story as a Founder in
this space is your history and 

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knowledge of gold. 
And I'm kind of want to dig in a

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little bit more into the 
statement you made around gold 

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being a decentralized. 
East asset and, and Bitcoin 

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having kind of a lot of those 
traits. 

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Can you talk to me about, you 
know, why you found gold 

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interesting? 
Even, you know, before, you 

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know, before 2020, or before all
of this kind of like meltdown 

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that has made gold really 
interesting to investors today, 

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can you talk about your history 
and gold and then maybe how that

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informed you know, your thesis 
and Bitcoin why you're bullish 

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on Bitcoin? 
Today of that Journey started in

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Toronto in Canada and in Canada?
Is Toronto, is the center for 

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the all the intellectual Capital
like, you would think that 

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biotechnology is Boston and San 
Diego. 

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Software is Seattle and San 
Francisco Global gold. 

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Mining exploration development, 
production, all that 

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intellectual capital of Toronto 
and and so I developed you to 

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growing up in that space 
learning about gold and asking 

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why is gold as an asset class? 
What makes it interesting and 

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also understanding the risks of 
gold mining and the pattern, For

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gold mining is very similar 
volatility that you have in 

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biotechnology and I can see that
pattern in Bitcoin mining. 

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That there's a very similar huge
exponential moves up and square 

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root of whatever the stock goes 
up, it falls the square root. 

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So, the stocks is of a penny 
stock goes from 30 sense, of 

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Discovery to $9. 
As is building out as mind, it 

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falls back to 3. 
If it goes to 49, as going to 

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fall back the Sabbath 27, this 
is just what it's The watch how 

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math which is the backbone of 
Bitcoin, that's all math and the

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same thing, you can see those 
type of math showing up in the 

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world of goal. 
So I started as an analyst was 

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like want analyst very early 
before. 

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We have all this digital world 
we have today and it was a 

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unique experience that I was 
also involved in the first gold 

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royalty company called Franco. 
Nevada to go public and one of 

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the things to share with you 
today it has the highest revenue

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per employee on the New York 
Stock. 

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Stock Exchange, 34 million 
dollars per employee, compare 

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that to having a they have that 
for as a royalty on the gold 

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assets of Newmont and barrack in
Nevada with their six hundred 

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thousand dollars of Revenue per 
employee. 

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So I this that experience from 
one helps you with the other and

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in Canada had to go and 
learnable. 

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Why do people buy gold, what? 
I've also found interesting on 

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that Journey was that 60% of the
demand for gold is love? 

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It's not fear, it's not the 
concern me. 

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Italy of governments destroying 
fiat currency, it's about love 

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and the way the world of 
diamonds grew. 

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And so when we think of today, 
the emergence and the growth of 

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China and India which is 
affectionately known as chindia 

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which is 40% of the world's 
population. 

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There's a cultural Affinity 
towards gold and the Middle East

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is also I was just recently in 
Doha went to saw the u.s. play 

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saw seven games and guess what? 
If airport somewhere every Mall 

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you. 
See 24 karat gold jewelry. 

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And you basically put it on a 
scale and you weigh it and 

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you'll pay a markup on how 
ornate the jewelry is and so 

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therefore people where their 
money and you pay more per gram 

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of gold depending on the design 
of the gold so I found all that 

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sort of fascinating and now we 
come into a different 

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demographic for me coming into 
the crypto space and the Block 

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Chain space and learning is 
demographics. 

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The demographics. 
And I grew up that the only sort

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of digital money. 
I could conceive off at the 

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beginning where my mileage 
points that I could transfer 

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them, that all of a sudden had 
an economic value. 

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But like governments. 
They slowly dilute the value 

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used to cost me only 10,000 
points to get a ticket and now 

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it's pushing toward a thousand 
points where they diluted them 

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down, the purchasing power, but 
that was the first concept. 

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But what I saw with young 
particular, young boys around 

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the world Etc was gaming. 
They were earning digital money.

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I play with Monopoly money. 
That's what I grew up with, but 

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your space, your genre, your 
age, your fear appears Etc. 

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It was computer gaming, and if 
you were really good, you got 

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paid in digital money. 
And you can upgrade and buy more

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00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:03,900
software, you could buy more 
games. 

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So we have a huge shift of my 
age of wealth, going to you your

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age, and this transfer of wealth
is going to go through where you

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can respect and appreciate 
digital. 

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He now all of a sudden comes 
along the concept of gold as a 

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store of wealth during curtseyed
to evaluations, but your age, 

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you've grown up with digital 
money. 

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So it's very easy for you to 
adapt. 

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And adopt, Bitcoin is very easy.
My age is so difficult, trying 

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to explain to them this concept 
and it happened in diamonds. 

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Something intangible Called Love
gets validated with a diamond. 

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Three percent of seconds after 
World War two years, a diamond 

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to get married with. 
Now it's 80% Japan in 65 was 3%,

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now is 80%. 
So if you get enough people 

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believing this digital asset and
you limit the supply, the price 

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goes up, metcalfe's, law 
exponentially. 

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So I understand that math, as a 
money manager in the Quant, 

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applying that over to this 
space. 

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So I think the big part of the 
love trade is the love of 

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gaming. 
The love that. 

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00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,300
Have and if you're really good 
at it, you get rewarded and you 

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00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:22,500
get rewarded in this digital 
money. 

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But you have now evolved and 
you're older, you're more 

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mature, and all of a sudden, you
want to have another 

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00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,000
preservation of wealth that you 
can send 24/7 all over the 

233
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,400
world. 
That's what I think is so 

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00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,800
exciting about Bitcoin and the 
adoption will grow. 

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00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,900
And what I learned in this 
journey was proof of work, is 

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like creating you need to have 
electricity to get to create an 

237
00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:47,600
ounce of gold, you need. 
Electricity. 

238
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:49,900
And if you want to have a 
digital Bitcoin, you need 

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electricity and then proof of 
stake, I've been known to call 

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00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:56,900
it proof of scam. 
POS is proof of scam, proof of 

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00:13:56,900 --> 00:14:01,100
security guy, something else too
and they can play on their Excel

242
00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:03,300
machines and create coins out of
nowhere. 

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00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:06,500
And and what we've seen, this 
whole FNX blow up. 

244
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,700
What was it done with you? 
They never had any Bitcoin. 

245
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:11,900
If you wouldn't buy Bitcoin 
through the system, they give 

246
00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:14,300
you a paper trade. 
They didn't really have Bitcoin 

247
00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:16,000
on the other side of that 
Transaction. 

248
00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:18,300
What They do, is they inflate it
there? 

249
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:22,300
Proof of State coins up to Lala 
value and they go, it's called 

250
00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:25,200
in the stock market washed 
trading to create a fictitious 

251
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,000
valuation for it and it all 
implodes. 

252
00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:33,000
So on the first big blowup, we 
had in 2000 17, going into 18 or

253
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,200
all. 
They asked coins and they all 

254
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,200
imploded and they brought down 
etherium. 

255
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,800
And now we have it with these, 
these exchanges, using these s 

256
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,400
coins to build up their Capital 
base, their imploding. 

257
00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:46,200
I think that Bitcoin will come 
out of this stronger and better 

258
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,400
but we're going to have to deal 
with with distancing itself from

259
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,600
these POS and this whole 
concept. 

260
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,800
That's what my thoughts are on 
that. 

261
00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:58,100
But gold is to make an ounce of 
gold. 

262
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:03,000
You have to have electricity to 
make a digital Bitcoin to make a

263
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,900
real digital coin. 
You have to use something as an 

264
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:10,400
economic value need electricity.
So that's the commonality to it 

265
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:13,500
and then you want to make sure 
that your gold doesn't come from

266
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:16,000
that areas. 
It doesn't use bad chemicals 

267
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:21,000
here at I've we've been focused 
on green energy, and I think 

268
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,300
that that's really a big 
differential for us, and we're 

269
00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:27,800
now taking it to another level. 
When I was at your conference in

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00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,900
Amsterdam, which I thought was a
home run. 

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00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:33,900
We went off and saw a green 
house just outside of the 

272
00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:38,100
Amsterdam and it has eight 
football fields, and they were 

273
00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:40,900
heating. 
The water tanks from two 

274
00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:44,400
megawatts of Bitcoin. 
Mining in immersion. 

275
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,900
So that Liquid Gold from only 
two megawatts that enough heat 

276
00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:53,700
would Heat this massive water 
tank, and that water tank was 

277
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,300
was facilitating eight. 
Football fields of pepper 

278
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,600
growing peppers, and they had 
Robots coming along. 

279
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,400
So we're going to be doing this 
in Northern Sweden, and we are 

280
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,200
doing something that's really 
unique. 

281
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,900
In Montreal, we take our 
building, which is about 40,000 

282
00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:16,500
square feet, and we heat a 
building 200,000 square feet. 

283
00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:21,700
Take that same electron molecule
from hydroelectricity, my two 

284
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:26,000
and a half Bitcoin a day, send 
that molecule across for 25 

285
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,300
yards into a building 200,000 
square feet and you have 170 

286
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:36,500
employees making whirlpools and 
it's a French Canadian company. 

287
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:42,500
So the this concept of recycling
that and then we also do in 

288
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:44,800
Northern Sweden. 
Were the first to balance the 

289
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,700
grid. 
We get paid to be a Stand by to 

290
00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:50,900
balance the grid. 
And and with this Bitcoin that's

291
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,600
big decline excetera. 
Well, we can sell because we 

292
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,400
hedge our currency. 
We can also we heads our 

293
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,800
electricity at two or three 
cents. 

294
00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:00,900
Guess why? 
Sweetest electricity jumped at 

295
00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:04,000
15 cents, sell the contracts. 
All right? 

296
00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:07,599
That allows us to all of a 
sudden be be able to maintain 

297
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:11,099
that steady cash flow. 
Absolutely. 

298
00:17:11,099 --> 00:17:14,500
And this is where I get the most
excited when I'm talking to 

299
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:16,400
expert miners. 
Like yourself. 

300
00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:20,300
Someone asked me what I'm most 
excited for in the Bitcoin space

301
00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:24,000
what I think is the most Cutting
Edge and I said Bitcoin mining 

302
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,900
as part of energy 
infrastructure. 

303
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,900
I truly believe that this is the
biggest game changing element of

304
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:34,900
Bitcoin is the decentralized 
poop of proof of work and its 

305
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:39,700
ability to create efficiencies 
really, that's what it's about. 

306
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,600
And and I think and you add 
immersion with that, it's really

307
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,500
interesting. 
Those two Dynamics top-down 

308
00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:51,600
bottom-up as you would call it. 
Twenty manager macro forces in 

309
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,200
micro granular horses, efficient
machines and it's amazing what 

310
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:56,800
you can do. 
But you know what, I want to 

311
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,300
share with you. 
We first went into a theory in 

312
00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:03,600
mining and I didn't really grasp
beginning of my journey that 

313
00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:08,900
this big war and I understand 
why POS versus poww and I'm uh, 

314
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:11,200
time 100. 
Sent poww person. 

315
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:16,300
But in that Journey cerium 
allowed us to have incredible 

316
00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:20,800
Returns on invested Capital. 
Like like it's unheard off like 

317
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,300
where I could put up my money 
and get it all back in six to 

318
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:25,900
nine months. 
I never saw that in gold mining 

319
00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:29,900
industry and so we went into 
that a theory in business and 

320
00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:34,500
the Arabian business allowed us 
to basically grow a couple of 

321
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:38,300
extra Hash, a Bitcoin mining. 
And so now we're 100% Bitcoin 

322
00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:41,900
miner and And so many other 
parts was is that we've been 

323
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:44,100
able to demonstrate the 
strongest evidence. 

324
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,900
And we've retreated, always 
because we might need aetherium.

325
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:50,000
And there was so much of anti 
etherium that we had the lowest 

326
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,600
ever devaluation metric. 
So now, we're 100% Bitcoin 

327
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,000
mining and I still find it 
amazing that we are throwing 

328
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,700
off, incredible cash flow 
because we have few employees 

329
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:03,800
many of the other companies have
so many employees so much 

330
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,500
infrastructure. 
We run it. 

331
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:08,700
Like it's a royalty company and 
we're owning a be in 

332
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:10,300
proof-of-work. 
Coins. 

333
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:17,000
So I want to dive into the 
energy infrastructure element 

334
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,100
and the ESG element because 
that's definitely a hotly 

335
00:19:21,100 --> 00:19:24,200
debated. 
A term in the Bitcoin space, but

336
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,400
I do want to tease out because 
you've mentioned it a couple of 

337
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,300
times. 
You're running your mining 

338
00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:31,700
business, like a royalty 
business and that's very 

339
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:34,900
different, how, some of the 
other public minors and even 

340
00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:36,700
private miners in the space are 
running it. 

341
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,600
You did? 
You did launch one of the first 

342
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,300
gold royalty businesses you 
mentioned Earlier, can you talk 

343
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:46,400
a little bit about that 
difference in mindset and how 

344
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,400
it's how it's proved successful 
for for Hive. 

345
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:53,400
I think the hive is as really 
enjoyed the highest cash flow 

346
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,800
Returns on invested capital from
finances. 

347
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,100
We've done how fast we've 
deployed the capital. 

348
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:02,000
If you take a look at it, we've 
generate the highest consistent 

349
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,000
cash flow Returns on Capital and
the most efficient Miners. 

350
00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:07,400
And I'm really happy about the 
team. 

351
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,900
They've done an incredible job, 
much smarter than me electrical 

352
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:12,800
engineers. 
Is everything what they do? 

353
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:18,000
But The Bitcoin magazine podcast
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355
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Healthcare premiums anymore? 

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What if you can invest in 
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doctors but aside money for your

358
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health expenses in your own 
account and even hold a large 

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part of it. 
In Bitcoin pay, one low monthly 

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That is yours have a large 

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370
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378
00:21:30,308 --> 00:21:33,400
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380
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00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:40,400
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382
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,400
going on in the markets? 
So you don't have to subscribe 

383
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:49,500
today, a Bitcoin magazine Pro. 
I'm coming back on this sort of 

384
00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:53,400
this, this idea of what we we 
look at it. 

385
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,200
When you look at gold mining 
business, it's a big topic, 

386
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,300
sped. 
And you have to look at 10 years

387
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:03,600
that you get your money back. 
And what does that that cost of 

388
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,000
capital? 
When you're in the gold royalty 

389
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,600
business, you put up the capital
and as fix you, get your money 

390
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,300
back but then you get all future
growth of that deposit. 

391
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,600
Or production growth, you don't 
pay another penny for it. 

392
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,600
So that is much more like what 
they call ass a smaller in 

393
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:28,500
technology and that's ass model 
was really critical for apple. 

394
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:32,300
And for Microsoft Microsoft no 
longer started having Big 

395
00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:35,600
Marketing campaigns to buy their
new software program. 

396
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:39,500
You paid monthly or annually a 
fee and it was all sent to you 

397
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,500
over the internet and all of a 
sudden, they started piling 

398
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:45,300
cash. 
It was his incredible machine. 

399
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,100
Select Insurance business with 
Berkshire Hathaway. 

400
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,000
If you look at what Warren 
Buffett has every month premiums

401
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,200
are coming in and all he's got 
to do is be a smarter investor 

402
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,800
than the other insurance 
companies. 

403
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,800
Have how we deploy that Capital 
to get the higher cash flow 

404
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,000
Returns on invested capital. 
And so that's been sort of hives

405
00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:08,400
philosophy is, what is our cows 
will return on invested capital 

406
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,700
and then taking all the data of 
how this coming in on a pivoting

407
00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:15,300
all the time with that, but 
we're really focused on that. 

408
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,400
At Castle return on invested 
capital and that's what wealthy 

409
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,300
companies also do and so that is
the big difference. 

410
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:27,900
God damn. 
I wish I was as astute of an 

411
00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:32,300
operator to tease out, you know,
every element of that. 

412
00:23:32,300 --> 00:23:34,700
But I'm sure a lot of the 
listeners, you know, can really 

413
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:37,800
pick up on on the nuances. 
I approach. 

414
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,800
I think I approached it like a 
Warren Buffett. 

415
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,400
Does that we're going to deploy 
Capital? 

416
00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:45,700
How can I get the highest Castle
return on invested capital? 

417
00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:50,600
And, and so when this time last 
year, when all the s19 pros are 

418
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,600
trading at 100 $120 at are ash, 
we said no. 

419
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,100
We're not we're not going to go.
Oh I you know why? 

420
00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:00,600
Because the return on invested 
Capital went to two years. 

421
00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:05,000
Well if you look at the DNA of 
volatility of Bitcoin and that 

422
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,800
two years and you have a having 
and you're now three years away 

423
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,000
from that having the math said 
you won't get that return on 

424
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,600
invested Capital that's just the
map. 

425
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,100
So I approach it from that 
mathematical like a money 

426
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:20,500
manager would and that's a 
different. 

427
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,800
So I think that I'm saying, I'm 
starting to understand now and 

428
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:28,200
really that mine. 
Set when it helps Hive avoid is 

429
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,700
the fomo that happens at the top
of the market. 

430
00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:35,300
Where like you said, all these 
companies are piling into very 

431
00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:37,600
overpriced Hardware. 
That will they'll never return 

432
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,200
in the timeframe that makes 
sense. 

433
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,300
We had so many pitches and you 
start reading through the 

434
00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:44,700
documentation. 
Well, if Bitcoin goes down, we 

435
00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,800
take your Bitcoin as collateral.
Wait a second. 

436
00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:50,700
That's you're going to give me 
the by Asic chip sand. 

437
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:53,000
You're not going to take one. 
A collateral my assets. 

438
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,700
There's always a sort of A 
predator, I call it predatory 

439
00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:59,400
lending. 
And predatory lending is taken 

440
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,300
down. 
Private companies in this space 

441
00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:04,600
that evaluations over a year 
ago, a billion dollars and it's 

442
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,100
taken down it's such challenging
for so many of these other 

443
00:25:08,100 --> 00:25:10,900
companies. 
So I just said, no, we're not 

444
00:25:10,900 --> 00:25:14,500
going to do that to put that 
money at risk for equipment at 

445
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:16,800
that price. 
So you have to think about it, 

446
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:18,800
I'm going to buy this for Tara, 
hash, on all that. 

447
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,100
There's so many as you know, 
services on the internet that 

448
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:24,300
you can plug in your cost of 
energy cause you cost of your 

449
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,200
Meaning your Terror, hash your 
how many months or days? 

450
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,900
It takes to get your payback. 
So all of a sudden we're talking

451
00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:35,100
about a two-year 700 day payback
and you want me to bore a 12% 

452
00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:39,500
and if I'm slow its going to 14%
And the DNA of volatility is 

453
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:42,200
this fun? 
There was a traffic jam coming. 

454
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,500
You could just see it. 
So we were conservative, I want 

455
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,300
to criticize for but that's 
okay. 

456
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,100
Because today, you don't, we 
have lots of cash on the balance

457
00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:53,200
sheet, we have Bitcoin on the 
balance sheet and we have did 

458
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,300
what we did. 
By the way, with the theory, Is 

459
00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:58,400
that we would sell the etherium,
what it had a pop, and then we 

460
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,200
would mine it back. 
Get our position back as it, 

461
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:01,700
correct? 
It. 

462
00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:04,000
And it fell, we would then mind 
my mind. 

463
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,500
And it would have these this 
volatility move, okay, sell sell

464
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,300
sell and then, mine it back. 
So, we've done some of that with

465
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:13,000
Bitcoin to make sure but we want
to increase our holding 

466
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,000
position, but right now, what we
want to make sure is that we can

467
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,300
upgrade all of our machines. 
Make sure our costs where the 

468
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:24,600
difficulty is today and the cost
of electricity is today. 

469
00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:26,000
Day. 
What do I do that? 

470
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,700
All these machines might cost us
twelve thousand dollars. 

471
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:33,500
So that's the goal. 
I was producing at 9,000 and 

472
00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:37,300
then as we saw the difficulty 
since mid-september surge 20%, 

473
00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:40,100
it's come off seven. 
But that's really not that much 

474
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:43,600
relative to bitcoin. 
Coming down to Fifteen, sixteen 

475
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,200
thousand. 
Now it's popped up from that 

476
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,300
level still, what do I have to 
do with that, cost, structure to

477
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:52,900
drive down and, and these new 
machines are so energy 

478
00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:56,000
efficient, but you have to take 
the old One's down and guess 

479
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,900
what? 
We're paying $15 $14 $13. 

480
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,700
Oh, you used equipment. 
S19 Pro last year, 112 dollars 

481
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:12,500
of Terror. 
Hash $12 Well I mean what this 

482
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:15,600
is, so this is the right time to
have cash because there's a lot 

483
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,600
of people who are dumping 
either, they're dumping their 

484
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,700
Bitcoin or they're dumping, or 
they're dumping their Asics. 

485
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,700
And yeah, there's a lot of 
there's a lot of distress 

486
00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:28,700
miners, you just can't afford to
operate those Asics anymore and 

487
00:27:28,700 --> 00:27:31,700
then all of a sudden they become
a massive liability for them and

488
00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:34,300
here you are in position to take
advantage. 

489
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:38,600
So the patient's definitely 
helps and this come back to age,

490
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,400
you know, I've been through 
these gold Cycles. 

491
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,600
I've seen I've had number-one 
gold fund so many times and been

492
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,800
up 100 percent in a year. 
And then the following year, you

493
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,400
know, all of a sudden you're 
down below 50% and your gold 

494
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,800
stocks because the gold stocks. 
What's also interesting, there's

495
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:57,000
a basket going on right now and 
it's been going on for several 

496
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,400
years but it's even tighter that
the, the crypto mining stocks 

497
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,500
all move up and down by the hour
with Bitcoin price. 

498
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,400
It's remarkable to watch the 
coins up in the morning. 

499
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,500
You open up higher Bitcoin sells
off by 11:00, all of a sudden 

500
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:14,200
all the prices, the bid slow 
down. 

501
00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:17,500
There's no way everyone's 
trading around that stuff. 

502
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:21,100
That's a Quant basket. 
That you would expect of a 

503
00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:24,700
citadel type of organization 
that's trading around that 

504
00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:27,600
against the Futures. 
And I'm told that people are 

505
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,700
going long, Futures and short, 
the crypto Miners, and then 

506
00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:33,100
they're going in reversing that 
transaction. 

507
00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:37,200
And so it's interesting to me 
that We still have not, I don't 

508
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,300
believe in my opinion. 
My heart here is Hive is is 

509
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:44,000
always traded this sort of 
lowest cash flow to a bidet 

510
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,800
Enterprise Value. 
And we've had these hives 

511
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,800
returns. 
I was told because we used to my

512
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,900
new Theory, what we don't mind 
if they're, we only mine Bitcoin

513
00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:53,300
now. 
And and so we had the same 

514
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:57,600
mindset to be mining Bitcoin and
make sure that we're in Northern

515
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,200
economies and the other part 
that we've done is we've not bet

516
00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:06,100
all of our energy on one state 
as some people have have and 

517
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:09,200
that becomes problematic. 
So I found like performing of 

518
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,800
diversification. 
As a money manager that 

519
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,000
experience is we have energy 
coming out of Sweden out of New 

520
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,200
Brunswick coming out of Quebec, 
coming out of Iceland and each 

521
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,300
month. 
There's some issue with those 

522
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:24,200
areas. 
There's a there's always this 

523
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,000
jurisdiction issue. 
Oh maybe they want to raise the 

524
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,800
taxes or whatever, whatever 
they're going to do. 

525
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,600
So you try to diversify that you
don't put all your eggs in one 

526
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:37,500
basket and that's something else
that Hive is I mean, enormous 

527
00:29:37,500 --> 00:29:41,200
amount of wisdom, there 
diversifying geographies and 

528
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,400
Bitcoin mining is ability to 
effectively be operated in any 

529
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:49,800
geography is like one of the 
keys here and maybe one of its 

530
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,000
biggest symmetries to gold is 
gold is just naturally found 

531
00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:56,000
across the planet in different 
geographies. 

532
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,100
You can find electricity, you 
can Bitcoin mine and you know 

533
00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:01,800
there's so few. 
Yeah your listeners. 

534
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:05,100
Is that we found there so much 
fun is as you've guys have 

535
00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:06,900
covered. 
So well on energy. 

536
00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:11,500
So we took the the organization 
that Michael sailor put together

537
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:14,600
and we took that 30 minutes down
to three minutes and we 

538
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,500
translated into French. 
We translate into in Swedish and

539
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:23,300
English and in Spanish and so 
that we're trying to educate 

540
00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:27,300
people to stop the Fudd about 
how much energy were consuming 

541
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,900
and and, and what you can be 
doing with balancing the grid, 

542
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,500
but that one is very focused so 
weird, because I think that one 

543
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:37,700
big part for all this The 
survive this psycho and this 

544
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,600
there's some great CEOs. 
I could tell you today. 

545
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,800
There's so many just phenomenal 
CEOs of crypto mining business 

546
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,000
and I think that this they'll 
come out of this business, 

547
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:52,600
strong, many will get folded in 
normal part of a crisis event 

548
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,000
and will come out stronger, but 
we still are going to have to 

549
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,800
deal with all the fun around the
consumption of electricity and 

550
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,200
better articulate, how we 
balance the grid. 

551
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,600
We heat greenhouses, we heat 
other buildings and and so our 

552
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,400
site we were we continuously try
to upgrade education from that. 

553
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,200
Now, absolutely, and I think 
that this is a great place to 

554
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,700
transition. 
There is an enormous amount, I 

555
00:31:16,708 --> 00:31:20,000
think we I think we live in a 
world right now with very little

556
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,000
financial literacy and very 
little energy literacy. 

557
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,300
Like we are. 
I think if you look at what's 

558
00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:29,700
happening in Europe right now, 
it's almost an epidemic of 

559
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,600
energy literacy or lack of their
of energy literacy because of 

560
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,300
the poor decisions, but it makes
me really hopeful, you know, in 

561
00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:41,100
this undercurrent of so much 
confusion in the energy markets 

562
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:44,000
There is this thing called 
Bitcoin mining, which is 

563
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:48,600
creating massive opportunities 
for energy companies to be more 

564
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,000
profitable. 
And for, you know, decrepid 

565
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,100
grids that haven't been upgraded
since the 70s to become more 

566
00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:58,900
efficient and to be less 
wasteful, you've discussed 

567
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:03,100
multiple areas in which Hive has
specifically found. 

568
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:07,300
A lot of efficiencies I'd be in 
terms of like managing heat in 

569
00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:10,400
terms of connecting to may be 
stranded energy or less use 

570
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,900
energy. 
Being a grid balancer. 

571
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:15,500
There's so many different 
elements here. 

572
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,900
I would love to just get into 
what the future of Bitcoin 

573
00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:23,300
mining as and proof of work. 
As part of energy infrastructure

574
00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:26,100
looks like you know and you're 
on the air on the bleeding edge 

575
00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:27,700
there. 
Well, thank you. 

576
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:29,200
I think we have to get. 
I didn't kill Erick our 

577
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,500
president and chief operating 
officers electrical engineer and

578
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:36,300
he gets really granular and 
loves all those moving parts and

579
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:39,400
his whole Drive, he's brought 
he's really done a great job. 

580
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,100
Embracing our culture of being 
Performance inspired generating 

581
00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:46,200
highest cash flow, turns invest,
the capital, but the technical 

582
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,700
team because we're now building 
new software to deal with with 

583
00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:51,900
our hedge positions and selling 
it off. 

584
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:54,700
When do we make those trades? 
Can you make them in six hours 

585
00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:57,300
segments? 
So it's evolving, but what 

586
00:32:57,300 --> 00:33:01,400
people don't realize is a 
Bitcoin, miners can go from 30, 

587
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,900
megawatts of three, megawatts in
less than a minute. 

588
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:08,200
You can't do that with with a 
Hydro Dam and you can all of a 

589
00:33:08,208 --> 00:33:11,100
sudden turn it back up from 3 to
30 quickly. 

590
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,400
We it takes a long time so these
electric utility companies can 

591
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,300
spend topics on upgrading their 
infrastructure and all of a 

592
00:33:19,308 --> 00:33:22,400
sudden we help with that because
they have this cheap electricity

593
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:26,200
going nowhere, especially near 
the Arctic Circle late at night 

594
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,200
or nuclear reactors are seeing 
in America that have all this. 

595
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:31,900
Thirty percent of their 
electricity is just wasted, it 

596
00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:34,200
goes nowhere. 
So all of a sudden they can 

597
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,800
improve the Returns on invested 
Capital by banking out and 

598
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,400
partnering with a crypto minor 
so that Me is really quite 

599
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,600
intriguing and we're on that and
we feel as you do, there's huge 

600
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:52,900
upside and I also think from 
Kovac is that that the world is 

601
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:55,200
going to become more 
centralized. 

602
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,900
We're seeing this sword eats or 
centralized and respect the 

603
00:33:57,900 --> 00:34:00,100
little communities. 
So, what does that mean? 

604
00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:04,100
It means decentralised. 
I believe, brexit is all part of

605
00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:07,600
decentralization. 
The idea of the Europe, just 

606
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,000
keep them growing and bring 
another. 

607
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:11,100
There's a push back now against 
that. 

608
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,300
That there's a rebellion against
Russia. 

609
00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:16,600
All of a sudden go to Ukraine, 
but it's also he's trying to 

610
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,000
centralize but the pushback and 
the battle is about. 

611
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,000
It's about maintaining 
decentralized political power 

612
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,600
sharing in the u.s. between 
giving more power back to the 

613
00:34:25,607 --> 00:34:28,199
states, to make decisions. 
They could be very emotional 

614
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:32,300
ones, but there's this 
decentralizing so food, where 

615
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:34,300
you going to get your food, are 
you going to rely on the supply 

616
00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:36,600
lines of food coming from South 
America? 

617
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,500
Are you going to rely on just in
your local area? 

618
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:42,500
Well, vertical, farming green, 
All that stuff is going to 

619
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:45,699
become very important that you 
don't have to rely if their 

620
00:34:45,699 --> 00:34:48,199
supply chain to erupt 
disruptions, like we've had from

621
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,800
covet. 
So we're going to see a new 

622
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,500
mindset, take place. 
And the same thing with these 

623
00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:58,100
which we have is decentralized 
Data Centers, our data centers, 

624
00:34:58,100 --> 00:35:02,600
and our GPU chips are very 
valuable for AI, they're very 

625
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,200
valuable and they're not just 
Amazon because you can turn 

626
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,400
around and switch and you can 
shut off Amazon, you can shut 

627
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,000
down and Microsoft. 
All of a Most of them. 

628
00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:14,300
Well, are here is, what's the 
importance is being 

629
00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:17,100
decentralized? 
So that's where I think Hive is 

630
00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:20,900
going to be calm data center 
company for the men of verse of.

631
00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:23,200
That's what they want to have 
but they're not going to be able

632
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,600
to run in and just all of a 
sudden by very expensive space 

633
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,900
and met Amazon because Emma's 
gonna show them off. 

634
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,400
So I think that that's what 
we're going to see in farming. 

635
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,600
We're going to see for 
consumption of food. 

636
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,000
We're going to see it for many 
different things we take for 

637
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,100
granted that it's just big 
enough. 

638
00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:44,200
Centralized is going to be 
decentralized. 

639
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,500
Well, I think the term that I've
been using the kind of this 

640
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,900
force that you're talking about.
This trend is localization, but 

641
00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:54,400
there's this strong trend of 
localization. 

642
00:35:55,100 --> 00:36:00,000
And and yeah, I completely agree
like the ability to leverage 

643
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,600
your local energy, the ability 
to manage your grid yourself. 

644
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,600
The ability to generate heat 
maybe in a cold area and he 

645
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,700
again a greenhouse or Heat some 
Office Buildings or 

646
00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:14,500
manufacturing facility, you 
know. 

647
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:18,900
I think the the we are just 
starting to, you know, break the

648
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:21,900
surface on on what is possible 
here. 

649
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:26,800
Just with this ability to 
consume energy and create heat 

650
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,700
you know effectively with a 
flick of a switch which just was

651
00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:33,000
not available at scale of the 
way, this would Bitcoin mining. 

652
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,400
So I really do think that a lot 
of this is it's very interesting

653
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,100
and I just don't think that 
people have really grasped on 

654
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:43,200
what like what that Seems like 
in and I thought that it was 

655
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,100
really cool at Bitcoin Amsterdam
at the party that Hive through 

656
00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:50,800
for VIPs. 
You you had appetizers that were

657
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,800
being handed out that were 
produce you know, made from 

658
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,400
produce that were effectively 
heated and cultivated from 

659
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,800
Bitcoin mining he and it does 
all glimpse of the 

660
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,400
possibilities, right? 
But you know again like that 

661
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,800
again like we're You know, we're
at the beginning of the 

662
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,800
internet. 
No one is seeing, you know, the 

663
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:12,600
possibilities of who burned, you
know. 

664
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,200
But if there's I guess if 
there's some symmetries there to

665
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:21,000
where we are in the Bitcoin 
mining, I guess Revolution, I 

666
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,800
feel like that's a pretty nice 
way to capture it. 

667
00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:27,100
It is an it comes back to this 
cash flow return on invested 

668
00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:29,900
Capital model. 
If you're a building now, we're 

669
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:33,600
going to see a growth of new 
nuclear power stations Etc. 

670
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,400
But there's going to have 
Surplus electricity at night and

671
00:37:36,408 --> 00:37:38,700
that's what we saw. 
Saw the conversation when I was 

672
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,400
in Dubai because they built new 
characters over there. 

673
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,000
And what are they going to do 
with all this Surplus 

674
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,800
electricity and how could they 
partner to do the stuff but 

675
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,700
Bitcoin mining and so that helps
them get their return on 

676
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:52,300
invested Capital. 
So there's this interesting 

677
00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:56,400
balancing that we can help them 
with their Returns on invested 

678
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,800
Capital. 
They in turn can help us with 

679
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:04,100
our Returns on invested capital 
and what is the magic Bitcoin 

680
00:38:04,100 --> 00:38:08,400
mining? 
I'm it is, it is Magic. 

681
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,900
It really is, and it's almost 
like implementing math into 

682
00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:14,200
their systems. 
It's a system that actually 

683
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,600
makes it all make sense. 
Whereas today, you know, I don't

684
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,500
think it's that far of a stretch
to say that, you know, Fiat and 

685
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:25,100
the way that energy is produced 
and the Petro dollar it is 

686
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:27,200
problematic, and it's not quite 
working. 

687
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:31,400
Yes, and we just got to keep on 
educating people here. 

688
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,000
So, right and anything that 
you've ideas for us to do a 

689
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,700
better job in communicating and 
telling the story where there 

690
00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:42,300
because I'm a big believer as a 
having no-load mutual funds. 

691
00:38:42,300 --> 00:38:46,300
ETFs are biggest way that we 
gotten customers into our funds 

692
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:48,800
as to there's no we can never 
make a promise here, a 

693
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,300
guarantee. 
But we have to paint a story 

694
00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:55,700
that says, why is that 
interesting and and what what is

695
00:38:55,707 --> 00:38:57,800
the difference between this fund
and not funding? 

696
00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:01,300
You have to be educational to 
get someone to grasp and 

697
00:39:01,300 --> 00:39:05,300
understand and appreciate it. 
So I now see that Journey 

698
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:07,300
starting all over in the crypto 
space. 

699
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:10,500
But what's fun for me is, I'm 
learning a brand new language, 

700
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:13,100
all these new acronyms, what? 
They meant, you don't from four 

701
00:39:13,100 --> 00:39:16,200
years ago when people throw them
around and walk away. 

702
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:21,600
And ask my son, what did he say?
Well, Frank, I mean, I think 

703
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,700
you're very good at staying 
young and very good at adapting 

704
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:26,900
your knowledge to kind of new 
spaces. 

705
00:39:26,900 --> 00:39:29,200
That's, I think that's become 
Evident just from this 

706
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,200
conversation. 
I wish we could talk in 04 

707
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,800
longer just because I could dive
into the nuances of Bitcoin 

708
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,500
mining for hours but I do want 
to talk to you. 

709
00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:42,500
You know, about One Last Thing 
Before we wrap up and that is 

710
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:46,000
the future of Hive as part of 
what has made Hive. 

711
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,700
A successful to this point, you 
kind of talked about your 

712
00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:51,700
framework for decision making, 
and that framework has helped. 

713
00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:55,600
You avoid making poor Hardware 
choices and making poor choices 

714
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,700
with your treasury in the bull 
market. 

715
00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:00,700
But one of the things that Hive 
has been, you know, Making Waves

716
00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:02,900
with is a, your partnership with
Intel. 

717
00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:07,400
And I'm very curious on how 
you're able to kind of cultivate

718
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,300
a partnership with one of the 
Premier chip producers, who is 

719
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:13,400
getting into Bitcoin mining and 
what is kind of happening there?

720
00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:18,500
Well, is they approached us 
because we're the agreement. 

721
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,300
We basically have the greenest, 
cleanest operation and and 

722
00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:25,600
that's why they reached out. 
And so, then we put our 

723
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,700
engineers and partnership with 
them. 

724
00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:31,700
And what's interesting about 
their machines is it has a what 

725
00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:34,900
they would call a wider Spectrum
for efficiency. 

726
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:40,700
So electrical prices, go up, you
can tool down and maintain that 

727
00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:44,200
sort of way the idea that if you
floor your car, driving gosh, 

728
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,100
you're going to waste a lot of 
guys and you have to find that 

729
00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:51,000
optimal speed for the load that 
you're carrying and so that's 

730
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,100
spectrum is so helpful in Rising
Energy. 

731
00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:58,500
Prices volatile Energy, prices 
Bitcoin volatility, And to marry

732
00:40:58,500 --> 00:41:02,100
those parts. 
So they are like this s 19 Pros 

733
00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:04,300
but they're their Spectrum for 
Energy. 

734
00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:08,800
Efficiency is excellent. 
So we've installed hundreds of 

735
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,400
them and the big low be coming 
in the next couple of weeks and 

736
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,200
we'll have thousands of them 
spread out across the world 

737
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,600
where we were remind. 
And so we're excited about that 

738
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,500
that relationship. 
But we are also buying SDS 19 

739
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:26,300
Bros brand-new down 90 percent 
from a year ago. 

740
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,300
So that that's our Ice that we 
feel. 

741
00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:33,500
We can get a very robust return 
on invested Capital because we 

742
00:41:33,500 --> 00:41:37,600
have low cost of energy. 
Yeah no absolutely. 

743
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,100
I mean even with difficulty 
screaming up the best operators 

744
00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:44,200
like Hive the you're still 
finding ways to be competitive 

745
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,900
because you didn't, you didn't 
waste all your money on, on 

746
00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:51,000
overpriced Asics. 
When there's maximum fomo and 

747
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,500
it's very interesting to see, 
all these companies that did, 

748
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,900
you know, pay a premium get have
very long lead times. 

749
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,500
To ship them to North America 
are other parts of the world 

750
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:03,300
from China and then all of a 
sudden, they can't actually 

751
00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:05,200
afford to run them and they have
to sell them. 

752
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:10,200
So it is I call it beautiful. 
But there's this cyclic out and 

753
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,900
though, you know, the winners 
get rewarded. 

754
00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:15,800
So it's very interesting to be 
able to speak with you and kind 

755
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,700
of hear what that experience has
been like for hive. 

756
00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:24,200
Well it's I think the 
acquisition we did a GPU one and

757
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,600
bringing in some great talent as
position. 

758
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,400
The company for another growth 
cycle. 

759
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,700
As we whether this bear Market, 
we have general counsel. 

760
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:36,900
We have structure, we have left 
for CPA's, now on staff as 

761
00:42:36,900 --> 00:42:40,200
setting up more, Always setting 
up every quarter sees more and 

762
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,800
more compliance and structure, 
which is great tuna for 

763
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,300
knowledge of is as operator are 
ESG strategy. 

764
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:49,300
I would say to you in Sweden is 
is a home run. 

765
00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:53,700
In Bowden, the, the Arena's now 
called the Hive Arena where we 

766
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,600
give him money back to the 
community for kids for playing 

767
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,400
hockey. 
It's a big big part. 

768
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,900
Four, four, four, six players 
that come out of Bowden. 

769
00:43:01,100 --> 00:43:05,500
I've gone to the NHL and the two
of them have one too Stanley 

770
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:09,600
Cups, but on teams that won. 
So the culture of hockey there 

771
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,000
is so big. 
So we're involved with that. 

772
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,700
Now we're looking to put on, 
we're doing the engineering to 

773
00:43:14,900 --> 00:43:18,300
have modular units, mining 
Bitcoin to heat the arena and 

774
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:20,500
save the community. 
A thousand dollars. 

775
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,600
So there's lots of fun with 
this. 

776
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,500
You know, when you go there and 
you see your hockey team that 

777
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,800
many players are there that have
been on the Stanley Cup 

778
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,700
Championship team, they live in 
the community when they retire, 

779
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,000
it's a we're involved in that 
that gives me gives me a nice 

780
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,500
enough positive Shivers being 
involved and see these little 

781
00:43:36,500 --> 00:43:39,300
tiny kids they all dream to go 
to the NHL. 

782
00:43:39,300 --> 00:43:43,300
So that's that's where Hive is. 
I have a phenomenal team in 

783
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,300
Sweden and run by Johan Johan 
Earth or black Johanna. 

784
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:49,300
Came from Sweden. 
She came on a D1 basketball. 

785
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,000
So she's very, very sweet and 
feminine, but you give her a 

786
00:43:53,008 --> 00:43:55,700
basketball and she'll drive on 
you and knock you over if you 

787
00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:57,700
get flat-footed. 
And so, she went to the 

788
00:43:57,700 --> 00:44:00,500
University of Chicago, she's 
extremely smart. 

789
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:02,700
So she runs a culture, so 
important. 

790
00:44:02,700 --> 00:44:05,600
She understands Swedish culture.
So that to me is very exciting, 

791
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,800
but she's also American passport
and and understands American 

792
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,100
Driving performance mindset. 
And then we have the other team 

793
00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:16,200
in New Brunswick and Quebec. 
So it's a phenomenal team that 

794
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,600
we have and that's allowed me to
stand back and not be involved 

795
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,100
every day to the degree that I 
was in pulling together, the 

796
00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:26,800
Acquisitions and attracting the 
people. 

797
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,800
And now I can stay down with 
return on invested Capital 

798
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:34,400
stewardship is the way I like to
look at it and let I know and 

799
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:38,600
you're Hannah and Ian man and 
Bermuda and Darcy, run the 

800
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,900
business and, and Gabe, oversee 
sort of the legal compliance 

801
00:44:42,900 --> 00:44:45,500
structure. 
So, when I see these other 

802
00:44:45,500 --> 00:44:48,600
blow-ups take place, you'll see,
they don't have structure as 

803
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,400
they grow. 
The revenue explodes and they 

804
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,400
don't surround themselves with 
highly talented people. 

805
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,400
They don't build a culture 
people. 

806
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:01,400
So hi-vis position for the next 
big wave as someone who's 

807
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,600
building in this space. 
You have to have that Foundation

808
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,900
because like you said, that's 
the only way you can smooth out 

809
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:10,600
those Ebbs and flows that are 
kind of natural to the Bitcoin 

810
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:11,800
Market. 
Frank. 

811
00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:14,500
With that being said, we need to
wrap it up. 

812
00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:18,300
I'm sure that people would love 
to learn more about where, you 

813
00:45:18,300 --> 00:45:19,300
know, about what you have to 
say. 

814
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,300
A about the space beyond this 
interview, where can people 

815
00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:25,300
apply blockchain technology? 
It's really easy. 

816
00:45:25,300 --> 00:45:29,500
Go to high value, you'll see the
Bumblebee logo blue and some 

817
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:34,000
people call this the Gucci be. 
It's our oranges gold color and 

818
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,400
that's the easiest way. 
High blockchain technology. 

819
00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:39,900
There's lots of content on our 
website. 

820
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,200
Sign up for our research sign up
for the videos we have on 

821
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:50,000
YouTube we have dozens of 
educational videos Yeah your 

822
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,700
live stream that you put on a 
couple weeks back, it was a 

823
00:45:52,700 --> 00:45:55,200
great watch a lot of great 
talent on that last room 

824
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:57,800
including a Bitcoin magazines, 
very underwhelmed, the Claire, 

825
00:45:57,900 --> 00:46:00,000
so thank you for putting that on
to everyone. 

826
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,400
Listening go follow Frank. 
Actually, I follow him on 

827
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,400
Twitter, a lot of great insights
coming from Frank on Twitter as 

828
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:07,700
well. 
We're what's your Twitter 

829
00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:09,800
handle? 
Frank Bulldog. 

830
00:46:10,700 --> 00:46:16,900
All right, let's go. 
That's high school sports. 

831
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,600
So my nickname Herb. 
Let's go. 

832
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,300
Okay, we'll follow the Bulldog 
on Twitter. 

833
00:46:22,300 --> 00:46:24,200
Frank I'm gonna have to have you
back on. 

834
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,800
I would love to talk to you. 
Your CT 0 or are folks that, you

835
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,400
know, are intimate with, you 
know, what it's like to balance 

836
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,400
the Grid in Sweden, but I just 
find all of this stuff 

837
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,000
fascinating and I personally am 
so bullish on bitcoin, mining's 

838
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,600
ability to to fix our broken 
grids and bring some literacy to

839
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:44,700
to our energy literacy to the 
world. 

840
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:48,900
So I'm really thankful that Hive
and you know the Bitcoin mining 

841
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,900
Trees pushing it forward, and 
thank you for you coming on to 

842
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:53,800
share it with our audience. 
Well, thank you for the 

843
00:46:53,800 --> 00:47:05,200
opportunity to share our story. 
Come celebrate Bitcoin, winter 

844
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:09,200
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845
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,700
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847
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848
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849
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,200
Bitcoin is for everyone, lefties
righties and rejecters of the 

850
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,200
false dichotomy alike and that 
is why the newest Bitcoin 

851
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,000
magazine print edition is called
the Orange Party issue. 

852
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,300
It featured articles by 
President and I have booked a 

853
00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:38,200
lie. 
Jeff diced Beauty on Natalie, 

854
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,300
smolenski. 
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855
00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:43,800
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Get your copy of your local 

856
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857
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,500
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858
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859
00:47:54,100 --> 00:47:56,300
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a deeper understanding of what's

860
00:47:56,300 --> 00:47:58,900
going on within the Bitcoin 
market and broader macro 

861
00:47:58,900 --> 00:48:01,500
environment, you need to 
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862
00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:03,600
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863
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00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,300
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865
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,600
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