I'm excited to introduce Our Guest today.
It is none other than Eric case in the self-proclaimed crypto
anarchists cypherpunk iconoclast and I've met Rodrigo, thank you.
I do not practice the word like seven times during the
commercial breaks. I was like make kurmuk thank you
Eric. What did I miss?
I know you're also a writer with the crypto sovereignty.
We don't say the c word here, but you have written about Bit
Coin and crypto since 2013. What am I missing?
Not hit. So the the you guys got my, my
Sandbar, right. All right.
You sound amazing? You looking good.
Thank you. I feel like I crawled out of a
dumpster. So that's nice.
My power went out right before this, so I was like, trying to
figure out how to get that next one leg, but crypto sovereignty.
The reason why I use this word is actually the word crypto
itself has, like its concealed, its own meaning and actually
have an asset. I called the encrypted meaning
of crypto which was essentially about how blockchain Bros with
their fundamental misunderstanding of like, why
Why you need a decentralized network?
That's censorship resistant. And it's not because like,
that's fun and it gives us good feelings.
It's because you actually inherently need to have a
symmetric cryptography at the bottom of what you're doing.
Because if you don't, the state can pretty much come and steal
whatever they want from you at any point in time that they
declare a state of emergency and actually Arthur.
Hays has a great article that he was released about this.
I really liked it. And what are his feelings about
Arthur might be? He does such a great analysis of
20th century and how the state of emergency is essentially used
to overcome economic limitations.
That would happen with sound money.
Whereas now we live in a total Fiat world.
That essentially what I really got from his analysis was that
like the entirety of the economy and finance has been over Kane
in order to allow for the state of emergency to essentially sees
all wealth and commit that towards what I like to call
hyper sadism, which is this idea that like, The full cultural
social and economic development that we're in right now is
completely and totally defined by the state trying to find a
way of life outside of the state at best.
You can maybe be on the periphery like Amish people, but
like even that has very strong limitations.
So anyways, the reason I went original with crypto sovereignty
and it was funny because I debated about it for a while if
I should use that word or if I should go towards Bitcoin and
this was before kind of some of the drama with it.
I felt that crypto sovereignty is really what I wanted to kind
of stick my flag in because cryptography is what gives us
sovereignty in the digital age and then Bitcoin with the
explicit structures that are set up around that then creates for
a number of other feelings. I have rounded, which at the
bottom, I fundamentally believe it is a Masai.
Anika tool that hasn't reached its fruition or recognition I
want to take a step back for a second and I hope you want me to
blow a little bit of smoke up your ass.
If you don't know who Eric is an Eric.
I'd also love to hear sort of we talked about this at the plug,
boom recently. But I'd love to hear in a
second. Your journey to bitcoin and sort
of what your history and the space is because I think that's
a really kind of key part of who you are, and who you've become
and what you've accomplished. But what I will say, for our
listeners is Eric is one of my favorite writers in this space.
I would highly encourage everyone to go and, you know, go
to crypto sovereignty. Dot org and read through some of
his pieces. They're incredibly well, well
articulated. And they you really have to put
energy into like picking them apart and it takes like active
reading to really sort of understand.
But all the references are phenomenal and you will be
rewarded for going through them and really forcing yourself to
process each sentence. I cannot recommend them highly
enough, the, your piece, the Messianic, Bitcoin is one of my
personal favorites but Truly an incredible writer.
So thank you for putting all the effort that you put into writing
these pieces and to getting them out there, I don't get nearly
enough credit my friend, thank you.
I really appreciate those citations and yeah.
So my journey is pretty interesting before Bitcoin.
I was I was really invested in far left politics and sort of
the Apex of that came at the Occupy Movement which I was
super enthused about, I was like we're going to take on the
state. We're going to take them out,
we're going to usher in this beautiful Revolution.
It's going to be phenomenal. Unlike everybody recognized,
that money was the problem that moneyed interests had overtaken,
pretty much all aspects of life and as it developed, I fully
came to a realization walls like oh Jesus.
There's like no action plans. Just kind of a bunch of people
complaining and like in the midst of that, somebody had
mentioned Bitcoins me, but I was like what this doesn't even make
sense, the collapse of occupy I was kicked out of graduate
school kicked out of my house, I'd like to move back in with my
parents. Parents for the my girlfriend's
dad and he kicked us out to and luckily, I always end up
crushing depression. This point, I could barely wake
up. And I remember out like my
lowest point. I ran into my high school
English teacher, and I was working in a moving company, May
Point twelve dollars an hour and I was so embarrassed myself that
like I ran out and sad my truck and cried.
And now you know that that was, it really affected me.
And I was finally at the place, I like, total Rock Bottom.
I was like, there's no way out of this workflow.
I'm just going to live as a slave and be broke my whole life
and for some reason in the midst of that always like, oh yeah,
this Bitcoin thing. What's this about?
So I kind of started reading and digging and is really
interesting and then when I realized that you could get
around, Capital controls with that, I was like, wait a minute.
There's something really important you.
So as I kind of kept studying it was like, this anchor, that sort
of help Kwame out of a depression.
And so, I then got a temp job and then I got a job at a bank
after Or that most doing a bit better, but the whole time like
I'm like drinking more and I'm like that.
Like this is it and it was funny because after about six months
at the bank, they were going to promote me to be like manager of
the division and I went in to talk to the CEO.
And we're going to talk about plans for the future of the
bank. And I tried to pitch money and
he just thought I was insane. We're like, no, like we the hell
is it? They're like, we want to put
like iPads in the branches. That's not what we're interested
in. And meanwhile, because I was
this About summer of 2013. I've been so interested in vic
Gavin. Newsom just took Eric away from
us. We laud again, just as I was
getting my robe on. Well, it's it's because you put
your robe on, it could be a very well could be.
And if that is the case, I apologize and for nothing
because this wasn't my fault, sorry, you're back, so sorry
about that. This is Gavin.
Newsom salt, this is not your fault man that, you know, I
appreciate that. But if I might have had my shit
together for my backup generator, this would be a
little bit. Where did I lose you guys at in
my diet, my depressing. So the Bank manager wanted to
put a bunch of iPads in the bank or the big CEO wanted to put a
bunch of yes. And I was pretty much like this
isn't a fit for me and serendipitously because I had
interviewed a coinbase for a position.
They hadn't given me before Olaf reached out right around the
same time. And he was like flipping out
because they're like, scaling. It was like, hey man.
Look good talking like oh, hey yeah, like how are you guys
doing the road? We need bodies?
Immediately were like desperate. He was like, do you want on?
And I was like, yeah, like what? Let's have an interview if you
look on know like fuck that like give the job.
Like, I'm sending you a computer right away, like get started, I
was like, okay so jove right in and got started and so that was
like a pretty epic journey to being at coinbase from 2013 to
2017 met. Lots of phenomenally brilliant
people and also like watch the sort of dumpster fire evolved.
It was sad because I really cared about my clients and
customers because my goal was to connect as many people to
bitcoin as possible. I thought inside we did a
phenomenal I'm going to job. It was just dealing with
management and other choices around that that made the job
real difficult, which is why coinbase has such a terrible
reputation around support. But for me, in this journey
meeting other people and getting to ask all these questions.
I got really hooked. It was probably in 2014 when I
felt pretty well right on it. Where like this question came
up, where I was like how is it possible that this, whatever
this thing? This money this object can keep
an oath to itself that no institution no man.
Man, the political course. State seems to be able to
maintain that oath to maintaining 21 million Bitcoins
in that if your private key is secured in yours, you know, it's
secured. And so this led me on this long
philosophical journey of trying to explore.
Will look, what, what does it mean when somebody has an object
that can't be taken from them? Like what does it mean, when
essentially, someone can present their own self sovereignty
through the non-action, essentially there?
You will say I would rather not and to me it took me on this
long discourse where essentially through both sovereignty Theory
and various political theories. I started to really dig deep
into what I believe Bitcoin to be.
Is actually essentially a technological turning that leads
individuals into self sovereignty through the way that
allows for us to enter into truly free relationship with
both technology and language as they enter mesh to become a
singular items. Mmm.
I'm curious, because The fact that you are a part of the
Occupy Wall Street movement, like the roots of that movement
was very much, at least, the way I interpret it as very much
prompted by the same things that prompted, an inspired Satoshi to
go down this rabbit hole and figure out a way to create and
gift us. Bitcoin, a are used to OSHA
Nakamoto and be, do you feel like, do you feel like people
Point does does? In fact, It what the rhetoric
around Occupy Wall Street was looking for nobody's ever asked
me if I'm Satoshi and I'm absolutely not like I can I can
I don't believe that for a second.
I'm a bozo so I really appreciate that.
You could think so highly of me. My fun side note as I meant, I
meant Neal Stephenson offered for economic on at a conference
for 5 years ago. And very sarcastic was like hey
our look are used to tuition akimoto.
He got really offended. He was like, no, he was like,
why would you You asked me that he was like, I can't I don't
have the ability to spend twenty billion dollars.
He was like it's not you shouldn't ask people that
question. That's not that's not nice to
look like you pissed off. That's amazing.
Yeah, I bet I look cantwell's like maybe he is and it was
funny because later in the conversation, I asked another
question, I was like, what are you like, really afraid of in
the future? And this was like 20 19.
He was like, oh like you know, for thousands of years we lived
in a world where like truth had absolutely no bearing on the
world, you know, like People could just live inside of the
lies and the sort of decrees that were given to them.
He was like, so I feel very fearful that we're going back to
that and be it was, it was such a premonition of everything that
would come covid and kind of in this second decade of the 21st
century when the third decade. So I really appreciate that
question of a, my station. I quote, it was the second part.
If you could retrace a, do you feel like what Bitcoin has
become is? In fact, it feeds into the
rhetoric for what the people that were involved with Occupy
Wall Street were looking for? Yes.
And this is sort of the hilarious crypto part again.
Is that like it serves the rhetoric perfectly, and actually
sort of creates a turning that goes.
Hey, look like it turns out, like, if you want to fix the
money. It's not a matter of
implementing deep socialist or communist agendas.
But it's actually about creating free market economics, that work
in such a fundamental way that the state no longer is in
control of monetary system. And that was one of the things
that really developed for me, sort of in my path way of
moving. If we far left is MM, was really
understanding that free market mechanisms and economics.
Like those were essentially eviscerated at the beginning of
the 20th century when we got these different models of
state-based capitalism. But state-based capitalism
always has its roots in statism and as in my opinion is
inherently fascist because of the way that there is no way to
actually have Capital markets that operate and allocate
correctly when you Have such deep State, involvement and a
fun word for the day. The Ridgid ISM to Ridgid ism is
the action of State involvement in the economy, so I believe
that we live in a deeply dirigida just world at this
point in time where even being able to try to see what a free
market economy. Looks like it's pretty much
impossible because of how deep the state is involved in.
Pretty much all facets of life. So ultimately I do think it
served the rhetoric of Occupy Wall Street but it does it in
this really interesting way where as you pull the thread One
more it actually has these sort of critiquing in my opinion,
socialist ideals and moving much farther towards libertarian
ideals and also just to be clear, I'm not on the side of
like capitalism or socialism. I think Bitcoin is something so
unique and radically different. It takes the most extreme
aspects of both and fuses them into a new thing in high galen's
dialectic essentially, can you expand on that?
Like what is, what is something very extreme and socialism?
So what is something very extreme and capitalism that can
both be found within Bitcoin. Sure one of the extreme things,
sort of more on the fascist of the dictatorial side is, the
choice is Satoshi made the 10-minute walk time, the 21
million units using the substance 56 curve.
You know, like all of these things that he chose those were
singular decisions that he made unilateral and there is no
compromise around that whatsoever and those are very
fascist Notions. But on the same way, he's so
radically respects individuals in such a way that he
homogenizes, everyone. That is part of the Bitcoin
Network and says, look everyone will be totally equal to
everybody else. If the value of one Bitcoin goes
up, all Bitcoins are totally equal.
If the value of one Bitcoin goes down, same thing, the value of
all of those Bitcoins are equal and the extremes to say look
like if you secure your Bitcoin with your private key correctly.
No one can ever take that from, you know.
No matter what? Even if everybody, you know, and
that is such an important feature because now we're no
longer dealing with these two dichotomies fighting each other
but we're almost picking out and taking the best parts of both
recombining them in such a way to allow for ourselves to move
forward with what I believe is, actually the rhyme zone of the
totally new form of the political.
And actually, you guys are going to be publishing in next
editions, print copy honor, By have called wind of client but
it's essentially about how Bitcoin is the most political
thing that exists and through it.
Renewing, this idea of the political it overcomes Party
politics on a whole and create sort of this new Baseline for
everybody. And that's not because Bitcoin
actually is this radical political ideal, but it's
because it's so a political in a world where everything has been
politicized, it presents itself as becoming the most political
thing, I love that idea that simply by Abstaining by standing
apart Bitcoin and becomes the most political thing I want to
quickly. If I can interrupt P, you can
read Eric's article that he is referencing in the orange orange
party issue of Bitcoin magazine. The print edition, you can get
your subscription at the Bitcoin magazine story using promo code
BM, live to get 10% off because we didn't showed earlier, so I
figured I should do it now. Good show Eric while you are
here and I was looking at, I felt compelled.
Inspired to put on my wizard robe, which I'm wearing right
now. I'm going to put the hood on ice
because I'm, you know, but in your article Messianic Bitcoin.
I think a lot of your writing does this but you you're writing
kind of conveys this level of excitement and optimism.
That I find I got to take this thing that I looked ridiculous
that I find super compelling and there's a specific quote that I
wanted to read that identify really strongly with because I
also was going through a period where I felt like the world
around me was kind of bereft of meeting and it was really,
really difficult for me to feel motivated and excited about
progress in the Things that I, that I wanted to contribute to,
because I didn't see a way for that to be to persist long term.
I didn't see any system that would support these, these goals
that I had and the things that I cared about until I found
Bitcoin. And if not for Bitcoin these
days, I would also be profoundly depressed.
But in this article, you say no longer will.
We will we will be tolerate living in a world of liars,
sycophants and sociopaths who seek to control everything
through fear and Terror Authority.
And decree, no longer will be idly, sit by it.
Allow them to eat our wealth, and reduce us to impoverished
destitution for their selfish and greedy desires.
No longer will we allow for their corrupt and deranged
version of false democracy to allow for the theft of the
world. In exchange, for broken
political promises. We all know to be lies.
We now have something better a way to resist and fight back.
A Messianic weapon of unequivocal value, which they
can never take away. They can never destroy, and will
Outlast them all for Bitcoin is not just about money.
It is about a new way of life. And that really was, I said
resonates with me. So here's my question to you.
What do you feel like the largest threat to that
optimistic view is in today's age?
do you feel like there's anything that That we all need
to be focusing on and thinking about an explicitly fighting
against because it threatens that beautiful.
Opportunity in front of us. Hey guys, this is Q from Bitcoin
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A Bitcoin magazine Pro.com Yeah, in my opinion actually think the
greatest threat is the financialization of Bitcoin and
trying to integrate it to play well with stay by think.
It's a really dangerous idea and I think essentially what we're
watching going on with etherium is very similar to The Dangers
that I could see come to the queen.
And I'm specifically talking about how much heat is on
centralized exchanges, and the way that they're going to
launch, he's 2.0. I really struggle to see how
they're actually going to. Woman, there's an immune full
decentralized way that doesn't have various threads of
censorship through it. In addition to, I don't see how
it become, it doesn't just become regulated chain.
And that really, because most of my philosophical work deals with
a figure in history known as homeless at their and that that
in Latin, it means the sacred man, but the worst agar.
It, it doesn't really hold its meaning in Translation because
it's not just sacred, but it could mean like a curse.
Sit as well and essentially throughout human history.
These are people that are legally decreed to that that
anybody can killed, but they can't be sacrificed.
Because the idea is that they're actually outside of the purview
of the law of the Gods on a whole.
And so people just have a right to be able to kill and Rob them
if they want to and that's called Legal when we saw it.
Yeah. What happened all throughout
human history. We what's the term almost occur?
And there's a whole series robust loss for Giorgio and
again, who is really kind of like my first philosophical.
Love the first book that really hooked me was called the
sacrament of the oath, or is it Sacramento.
But essentially he tries to parse out like, what is it that
actually empowers, the Oaths, like, have meaning at all and he
does this D pathological, dive that is, is out that like like
the oath in the sacrifice are these things that like mutually
fuse into each other and unless you can like put The at stake in
your language directly which for most people, the lives directly
that like the oath was meaningless.
So essentially like if you broke your oath, people could kill
you. I'm like that's just
legitimately how things operated for a long time and so
essentially, the reason we trace this lineage is because legal,
the legal decrees that allow for somebody to be found guilty are
found inside of the same operations and for me the
greatest concern within this entire field is being able to
protect people. Normally couldn't be protected.
And so I have to ask questions like what if we somehow had
Bitcoin the 1930s and we were able to get that to the Jewish
people like Howard of that change.
The outcome of World War Two and then just another really fucked
up. Fact, is that actually IDs the
International Bank of settlements?
It actually Finds Its Origins from a bank that was originally
made for reparations payments from World War.
One in Germany was supposed to feed payments into that but when
Hitler in the You seized power. They actually use that bank to
launder the gold that they extracted from the teeth of Jews
that they killed in the Holocaust into this bank.
And so at the end of World War Two, when the Allies were at
Bretton Woods and they started negotiating running, what to do
with this bang, the Norwegian contingency refused actually
been sit down at the table. Well there was a promise from
FDR that this bank would be totally liquid.
So they get that promised to them Bretton Woods comes out
Truman dies or FDR dies. True and comes the Power.
He says, you know what, actually, this is a really great
thing. I'm sure God should use it for
something, we should use it for like International settlements
and lo and behold, the bank of international settlements is a
literal Nazi bank, that got it seed, funding from the
Holocaust. Like, you can't make this shit
up. It's so fucking bananas.
And Like that's part of the whole story of humanity that's
going on right now in my opinion is that when you really look at
what's occurring in the world, not only are these iron, he's so
dramatic. But to me in The Concourse of
human history like these are almost the things that have to
happen because we have to look at this and go oh my God what's
going on is so horrific and so dark.
And so nihilistic that I think for many of us who look, Out in
the world before Bitcoin have that depressed view.
We have to have this radical break to say.
No, no, like fuck this place. Fuck the society.
Fuck. All of this absolute bullshit.
Nonsense, you want me to participate in?
Do you want me to shut up and sit down and do whatever?
I'm told including sitting inside while, you know, one of
my favorite ones is not favorite.
But in terms of one of the things that I like the most is,
I just have no interest in military spending.
I've traveled all around the world and I met people from all
walks of life, different, cultures, different religions,
and everyone that I have met has been a beautiful accommodating
loving person. And so when I'm told that there
are those people over there that are bad that we need to kill
fuck you. I have absolutely no interest
whatsoever in arming you or helping you go kill people.
If you think someone is so much of a threat that you want to go
drop bombs on them, we'll go get a gun and go fight them
yourself. You fucking coward, because I'm
so angry at this. It in time that my money is used
to kill children around the world and I actively know that
that happens. And that we conduct ourselves
inside of these tests, Sherry genocides that don't get discuss
like what's going on in Yemen or other places.
And with Bitcoin, I finally have a way to actually object in a
deep and meaningful way. Not only can I just say no but I
can say no, you any of my wealth?
No, I'm not going to participate in this system of abuse and
exploitation anymore. And even if That means you're
going to destroy me. You can't have my money, and I
think when we all become courageous enough or not, even
all of us, even a small sliver of us become courageous enough
to stand up against that. I think we find the renewed,
hope of what it means to be humans in the world and
specifically one that has all of this advanced technology.
That's so important to ensuring that we remain free into the
21st and 22nd century, which is even with we're back.
Queens at right now, I have very serious doubts.
If we'll be able to escape the cage that's been built around,
please. I'm going to want to go down a
couple different rabbit holes with you.
Eric, you, you you said the magic words for me to go down
this but like, my family is from Iran.
Originally, I have a majority of my family lives in Iran.
I've seen the way me, my parents were spoken to before 9/11, and
after 9/11, I genuinely have a class of friends that were my
friends before 9/11 happened, and then I literally never saw
them or their parents ever. My question to you is like I I
love this idea and I always talked about how if we lived in
a country that was purely based on the Bitcoin standard we pay a
fine, everything stays the same about the US with the exception
of our currencies. Now Bitcoin things like where do
our tax dollars actually go to? How is the money?
The government getting his spending getting allocated and
then distributed further from R will actually become more public
and as a result the politicians will have to be held accountable
both for the things they say and the things they do which right
now just doesn't exist. I so I'm torn because what I
presented to you is as simple as literally just change USD to
bitcoin and you have accountability but like life is
not that easy, and simple. So what am I missing in this
situation that I just prescribe to further, enhance the
accountability on our political leaders in the powers-that-be in
this country first, Well, in all honesty, it starts with the
question of what is money, you know, and it's always phenomenal
to me to try to start this conversation with people and see
how far off base is. They are because pretty much
nobody understands what money is, how it functions are, why it
does that. And once you, and I think most
of us, know as you start to pull that thread and you start to
really understand what is money. You realize how completely crazy
it is that they can just willy-nilly, make it up and give
it to themselves. To go spend on whatever and they
go. Yeah, you know, like, next
election cycle will be account. So I think the, you know, buying
far education is the most important thing.
And specifically not just education about getting people
facts, but pedagogical education, you know, of giving
people the actual tools to try to understand these things
themselves. And to think for themselves,
Immanuel Kant has a great essay from 1792 called.
What is The Enlightenment and it's just phenomenal asset.
That's pretty much just about how all that the enlightenment
is is he says it's get some And up tomorrow of superior view,
which means dare to think and all that the enlightenment was
about was thinking for yourself and Having the courage to say,
what you believe to be true. And the ancient Greeks had a
word for this to called Paris. Ola and parasol was the idea to
speak courageously and risk Yourself by speaking in that
courage. And I think many of us are
really did Corners are already on a path towards doing this
because what's going on in the world is insane and it's wrong.
Some morally wrong. It's ethically wrong, it's
socially wrong and you, it is even mathematically wrong.
They literally have broken accounting at the bottom of all
Fiat money, that's how it works. That's the only way it works.
And that's, that's literally what the means.
It means by decree. And so, by decree they have made
things paper, that has no inherent value have value.
Does that mean it's actually valuable?
No, but because we're so deep into this world.
And of statism authoritarianism when we are told Authority, not
truth creates legitimacy. We believe that and the truth is
that truth not Authority is the purveyor of legitimacy more than
anything else. So I think step one is just this
educational movement but then if we were actually to enter into a
world where Bitcoin was the monetary standard the United
States like I think things would radically change almost
overnight and mostly because As you're saying, we have this
really, really public money and this is one of the reasons why I
critique privacy chains is because I want this to be a
money that becomes what's utilized by organizations around
the world and we need the transparency to say.
Okay, you know, I paid a Bitcoin in taxes, I can watch the utx.
So go wherever they're going, hey there's like a bunch of
money that went over here. Like, what's this thing?
There's like an awful lot of money trolling.
Oh, it turns out that the secret military project that, you know,
we can now trace the lineage and or Ian.
And so next time they ask is to pay tax like well fuck you, you
broke your promise on how you were going to actually utilize
my money. So I'm not going to pay and I
think that this is going to be part of what this sort of
politics of the future is going to get produced is the internet
as like such an insane and radical tool that were all
absolutely under appreciating, how radical of a tool it is.
And that like it's gonna be here forever.
It's gonna be here for the next, you know, several Millennia is
Humanity survives. And so being thoughtful and how
we're going to use that in order to create a new form of politics
that overcomes. You know what are three to five
hundred year old system that we have going on right now is going
to be really incredible. And I think with these new fluid
and changing and frankly unknown forms of politics that we're
going to discover it's going to radically alter the way that not
only is politics done. But the Ability that people have
and how money is spent on ultimately it's going to make
war much more difficult process and also on a final note on that
thought. I just want to say, I'm really
sorry that you had friends that were bigoted and racist enough
that they would cut you out of their life.
After a bunch of shit bags, decided to do a terrorist attack
and then specifically, like, you know, not not even tangentially
related to David. I'll I, to be honest.
Like my parents gave me a very sheltered and productive
lifestyle and I didn't realize this, I will just say this.
If you've never seen the show Rami on Hulu, there's an
episode, I believe it's episode 45 in season one.
It's called strawberry something and it's it's his version of the
day of 9/11 and what happened. And I remember watching that and
I live was like whoa. That felt real real to me and I
called my dad and I was like Whatever happened to this one
family that we really tight with.
Like, I would, this was my best friend in the second and third
grade. And then just like, we never
spoke to them. We never hung out as a whole.
We just, you know, drift apart, went different ways of Mike, did
he say something to you after 9/11?
And I was like, he genuinely was like, who told you?
And so I actually didn't even feel it in that moment and my
parents just shielded me from that.
So I don't want to act as though.
Like I really live through it in that way, I remind you my
nickname from the sixth grade until quite literally 2020 was
terrorists and a lot of my friends phones.
So o whole other story as you fucked up whole other story but
It's for me, it all rooted in this accountability and you
bring up a great point where this made-up money has given
government's. Now, I want to expand this
because it's not just the United States of America.
It's every foreign government that can do this to where if
they feel inclined, they can just print as a however, much
money they want or need to accomplish things like Wars.
To accomplish at aggressive attacks against other countries
to just by fucking real estate in a foreign country, like all
of these things are within the scope of ability of governments.
Now, I just wonder in your opinion.
I hate to speculate of questions myself but I'm curious what you
think of but here we are asking them to because all I did I make
a career hedging? The fact that no one likes to be
asked these questions but I'm going to just ask them.
Anyways, how do we unwind, like what is realistic?
What is going to in your opinion, be that breaking point
for countries to have to exit the feel off?
Ramp is something like what we see in El Salvador, going to Be
a case study on how it's going to be recreated.
Or is it going to be what we're bearing witness to in Japan and
Europe as we speak for them to either have to be forced into
the dollar or potentially take a different exit ramp, just to
expand on this team and take would want, or make it more
difficult for regulations. I like, I want to move several
steps rather. Let like with you being known as
terrorists, it's pretty easy to go.
Well, he's clearly in An Enemy of the State.
He's a brownie. He, you know, wanted he clearly
Those people you might even be one of those evil Muslims.
Like fucking kill him. Kill him, and take a shit and
that like that seems like a ludicrous idea.
I want to get like that was done all throughout fucking human
history. Literally, the state goes, hey,
these brown people, we don't fucking like let's take all
their shit and kill them. And that's how it played out
again. And again The Armenian Genocide,
the brochure in genocide, it goes on and on on and on in
addition to like then you look at stuff like the cultural
revolution in China where it's like small differences of
opinion on the same side like they just lose their fucking
minds and not only kill each other but they like each other
because they're so vengeful about.
There's like there's like thousands of cases of
cannibalism what happened during and so like yeah during the
cultural revolution, there were cases of cannibalism because
like they literally took the statement, eat the capitalist
directly. Yeah, like eyes while and like
that's one of the things I guess.
History is just how ludicrous things got many times.
Is that like when we talk about things happening going, no
that's just too far-fetched. I guarantee.
There's like a dozen references that we have currently in
history like that could never happen.
Now, like we're a modern people we are raised above.
Yeah. And meanwhile like we're like
actively like watching the week or genocide which as I pointed
out before, it's like like this is like the Apex of genocide
because like it's not even just about like taking killing like
taking all their shit and Them. It's about like taking all their
shit. Hollowing them out as a culture
and a People mentally and then like putting them back out in
the world being like, remember we're monitoring everything that
you do and we can torture and kill you at any point in time.
So you better shut the fuck up and do the exact thing that we
want or else. And like those are people that
we've made the decision. That like we're going to have a
deep economic interdependence with because, you know, we like
consumers shit like how betraying to die.
Fields of what America is supposed to represent and to
back and the fact that we allowed for Nixon to.
So thoroughly fuck everything in this country and then we just
kept walking forward. And so the way that I think that
we D transition from Fiat is I actually think a deeply
political movement and I actually think like that's the
only way it's going to catch fire is when we start to realize
that it's not the Democrats or the Republicans that are going
to solve this or even some brand new third party.
Tea but it's going to be about us radically organizing on our
own independently and making a choice to exist outside and
Beyond the state through. Not just peer to peer exchanges,
but collectives networks. And a lot of this matches up
with the idea of anarcho-syndicalism because at
the bottom I think that coin really is a purest form of
anarchism that we've had. And some of the best methods
that we've seen in our history organizes through syndicalist
methods, which was essentially the way that anarchists organize
themselves in Revolution. Spain, during the Civil War?
What does that mean? The term signal is Mac methods,
syndicalist? It essentially means that people
collectivize themselves on really any scale that they want.
So like we all need water. We form a water Collective, like
we all need wood and form like a wood collectives.
You know? Like we what would what would
the other end of that Spectrum? If you have that on one end and
then is there like another end of that Spectrum or the opposite
of that? Like the opposite of
syndicalism. Yeah, I would I think it would
just be centralized fashion you know where essentially you have
a centrally controlled economy. That is dictated everywhere.
Whereas idea of syndicalism is old Loosely formed decentralized
networks, that then use Mutual AIDS in various situations.
I highly recommend reading Rudolph rockers essays on
anarchism because he goes into deep detail about this, he was
given the assignment by Emma Goldman when he returned from
Europe. And she was like, you need to
write about anarcho-syndicalist right on That shit down and so
like I actually think we're really entering in this, in my
opinion is sort of like the end of the first chapter of what
that coin is because like now it's becoming clear what it is.
Now. People who essentially are
hearing the call are hearing it and answering it, people are
piling in and my story of coming back from depression is just one
of at this point. I've heard dozens if not
hundreds and I've had all kinds of insane DMS from people just
saying, hey like I had similar Since its I felt crushed.
I thought sad. I didn't know what to do and
then I found Bitcoin and it gave me all this New Hope.
And it wasn't because I could like make Gonzo money and get
out, but it was because I finally felt like I had
something that was really mind that nobody can take from.
And again, I want to emphasize how fucking crazy it is that we
live in a day and age of advanced Global technological,
you know magic and the idea of Simply owners who think he's
stolen from you is like the most radical idea Exist.
And so to me like at the very bottom, this is why ultimately
believe the coin is Messiah neck because it doesn't have anything
to do with money but it has to do with awesome again.
Eric, come back to us. Hmm.
We can actually blame Elon Musk for this one.
That's my star like that's coming.
No. I mean, to be honest, I'm
surprised that this conversation is getting any views right now,
given. How many of the comments I'm
seeing get posted right here on restream that aren't actually
coming up on YouTube. So, seriously, they're censoring
us again. Oh, 100% Andrew.
Andrew, Novak wrote a comment. Andrew Novak row.
Saddam was going to take Euros for oil and then 9/11, which is
a story. We've talked about a lot on this
show. I will never, I will never.
Stop bringing that up. And then shortly after that,
Global nonsense, wrote a journal Chrome.
Is the money of the elite. Neither of these comments are
found in our chat. Did he say adrenochrome?
Yeah, bro. Yeah.
All right. That's the so you're living with
me, Tom, Saddam and adrenochrome are gonna trigger words for you.
The second one is funny, but yeah, YouTube is brutal.
These days, we have. It's so we have like, you know,
all the comments that are going through this through various
platforms piped in so that we have the The host and the guest
can see them live and it's very interesting to see which
comments YouTube, sensors, immediately, and silently, like
you can't, you wouldn't even know.
Unless we also separately had this other chat, which is
connected to the YouTube API. It's Starship.
It is and I mean like that's for me that's another reason
Bitcoin. So important is that I actually
think that back into this, like big, like Bitcoin has money.
I actually think the vanishes, and I actually think we get the
coin as like the backbone. the internet and will essentially
use lightning channels to exchange data and make
everything completely Nonsense Revolt always what were the
belly The Bistro like like we are very deep.
It's very clear that the financial system is having
seizures and is in the throes of figuring out just how exactly
it's going to die. Our politicians gas like that
absolute shit out of this. I mean, the fact that, like the
thing that amazes me is like, Joe Biden gave that speech.
And before he did it, there was like a group of people who
surrounded him. Who are like, yeah, like the
Athletics for this are really good.
It communicates, all of the stuff that we holy, walking,
shit, what happened, who made that call too seriously
somewhat. So I'm better have gotten fired.
I don't think so. No, they get they got promoted
or exactly like he speechwriter. And again, looking at history
like, we need to remember that like this is how things
escalate. And, furthermore, like anyone
who's involved with government at this point in time, like
they're obviously a shithead that isn't considering or
thinking about the general, All World state of the world and how
politics is right now, because as we've watched all this claps
in my opinion, anybody who wants to go get involved with the
government and think that they can change.
Anything is really not thinking this through and if they are, I
think that alternative is actually much more scary is that
they're actually evil. I'm like, I don't want to, I
don't want to throw this turn around lightly, but when I say
evil, like they're literally incapable of having the thought
that what they are doing is wrong, but there's always some
excuse With some reason, they'll like, whatever you say to them,
about why they're participating in it, there will always be a
good reason from their statements.
And so my opinion, that's why it's actually evil is because
there there is no way to have a meaningful discussion where they
come to the moral imperative that's presented.
There will always be excusable. And to me, like, I think this is
the world were going to go into for quite a while.
And I actually think at the Apex, it is going to essentially
be just as we saw all three. Throughout the wars of the 20th
century, not some other state coming in and blowing us up, but
our own government turning to us and going yellow.
There's some shortages so that cabbage got give it to me, or
So, how do we inspire people to first of all?
I agree. No one is the villain in their
own story. No one looks in the mirror and
it's like, I'm an evil person and I'm taking this because I
want it. Everybody has a has a narrative
around, why it's okay. But how do we inspire people to?
Not those people. But everyone else who
acknowledge the situation that they are that they find
themselves trapped and how do we, how do we grab people by the
the collar and shake them awake? Speak truth to power, you know,
like I'm like, I'm just some crazy motherfucker, you know.
Like I got lucky enough that not only do I get on this ride
early, but that I have been speaking to these things.
So I really care about them and it's been incredible to me
watching. People, applaud means, you know,
invite me on shows like this and tell me the same or write books.
And it's because when people hear that truth that they need
so bad, it not only is refreshing but it's inspire, you
know, like always. You always think it's
interesting when I meet like, like very typical more me
people. Because like, I'm so kind of off
the periphery on my own thing. And when I'll what my untruths
and Visions are these people are usually really taken aback, you
know, and I've noticed in some people that really sparked
something in them and the most fascinating is when it's like
totally unexpected people that I never thought I would like rile
something up and then a great examples like my veterinarian.
She's just an older very liberal.
Woman who, you know, very heart, felt warm and caring.
I'm like, you know, I gave her some some orange pill stuff and
all would be well. And then next time character
she's like, Halibut what? Like, this is super interesting.
She was like, I'd never imagined that something like this would
exist and just watching that sort of light up her world.
And the way it changes her is what I'm convinced is the most
important thing, you know, and the very same way that like the
most important thing, that people could do, after the death
of Jesus was in Ain't you know just it it wasn't to try to
figure out how exactly they're going to make Christianity, take
over the world. It was to speak to all the
people who knew that Christianity took the deepest
and you know, and that's why I'm speaking to is like I'm not
interested in converting normies and getting this huge consensus
and majority to come on board. I think that will happen in due
time. I'm super interested in the two
percent of people that are going to get fired up, that are
actually going to buy the coin that are actually going to self
host. Those are going to do their best
to understand the technological details and the really talk to
people about it because those are my people and my job
specifically is to talk to them and say, you are on to something
very, very important. And you need to keep driving and
pushing, don't regard this as some technological development,
don't regard it as a normal company or a way to make money
realize that you exist in such a unique and important time.
And that you get to be part of giving this gift to humanity and
ensuring that it Blooms as it is supposed to because on that same
note, the other danger is like Bitcoin can fail.
And it can fail if we're not all doing our best to ensure that
it's going to be successful, it's going to be understood and
that its mission is operating as expected to, you know, and that
was one of the dangers that we saw come up.
You know, during the block size Wars and I feel very confident,
we're going to see it again moving into the future,
particularly when we see this, Eight regulatory attacks, come
on board, and it's going to be all of our responsibility to
make sure that not only do we help and protect one another as
we saw, you know, God damn it. Warms my heart to see how people
really came out for holding on. You know, here's an individual
who put themselves out front and center and said there the
fraudulent piece of shit saying that he is the founder of
Bitcoin and it is not true and that fraudulent piece of shit
came after him and he not only did he put himself front and
center and take the Those bullets but Bitcoin has rallied
around him and said, hey, we want you to know an attack on
one is an attack against all when we got your back when we
showed that to you know, and somebody just said in the chat
will we are all holding on. And I think that that's really
important that people know because and as I've seen here
too, if you throw yourself into this, you will find other people
who want to work together that want to talk about the same
things that want to go deep and help each other.
And I promise you that it will Be much more spectacular than
you could ever imagine. Because like I, I never even
expected to get a tenth of the way that I am.
And so now that I'm talking to people that I'm talking to, I'm
working and doing the things that I'm doing I feel such a
light inside of me that I never even knew existed before.
Like I honestly, just thought I was going to work meager
middle-class job for most of my life, watch some sports ball and
that would kind of deal. And now I feel like I get to
participate in the most important movement inhumane, and
I very sincerely, believe that. And even when come to challenge,
I actually think I can defend it adequately, but that's a very
long philosophical diatribe. What are you if I may, there's
some of you kind of alluded to the very beginning of our
conversation, I think you alluded to it a little bit
throughout as well. But that is and I'm not trying
to frame it as this will happen, but there is a possibility of
the outright failure of big. And I've had conversations with
likes of suspense key, D plus, plus drawn, valise and hearing
the ideas of What actually would be the cause of Bitcoins
failure? Would it be a state attack that
prevents it from really reaching its full potential?
And what does that actually mean for the future of humanity and
Society, not trying to be play the Doom and Gloom speculative
stuff. But but let's walk and doom and
gloom. But let's Doom and Gloom for a
second here, I'm curious. Where, where are you?
I'm most afraid of an attack on bitcoin that could be a
successful attack on bitcoin because here's need space.
We all got these fleshy bodies that can you know if you put a
blow torch to it it's not going to work out very well and we're
probably going to improve pliable after that and actually
an essay called the theory of the part of song which is based
off of Carl Schmitz book by the same title theory of the
partisan but mine's called theory of the digital part of
song and I actually think like as things escalate the state is
Going to attack the shitty meat suits that we have.
And thankfully through the digital news feed, we're
actually going to get all these knobs that are going to pop up
and produce themselves. And give us the answers that we
need, you know, similar to how shell and Fry like kind of
popped up out of nowhere during block.
Size Wars related. Check out what's got, I got the
solution here and the same thing will happen in the future as
maybe we get regulatory tax. Maybe the state puts clamps on
developers. There's any number of ways but I
think as the He's social tax, play out like we will find that
anons will rise up from the internet to essentially be the
foot soldiers for future that we need.
And and it's no wonder that upset with because, you know,
part consists of what's operating is that because we
live in this Global digital panopticon's, this one concern,
the can actually locate anybody put the clamps on them as they
need to. And so like, we literally need
digital pseudo. Anonymous people to rise up to
save us because they're the only people that are capable of
doing. I think that's also going to be
how the internet comes to present the fullness of its
power is because anons will rise up and provide novel, new forms
of Technologies, new B, different ways for Queens to
develop, where What they're doing speaks for itself and
itself alone. It's not about their title.
It's not about Whatever person they might be, it simply has to
do with what information they provide.
And that's very, very important. And I think that goes all the
way back to. What Satoshi did you know
Satoshi Nakamoto only matters? Because of the art that he
produced into the world and the way that we got to experience
that are and he could only present that are in so far that
he is Satoshi Nakamoto, not some man of flesh and blood, but we
can find the rivets fingers off, but because he is an anonymous,
Doesn't exist in our world in a meaningful way and just to be
clear, even if we did find the person or group, or whoever
Satoshi Nakamoto, whoever controls his handle, that's not
Satoshi Nakamoto but somebody else.
In my background is my shitty longer just a we've known this
whole time you know it makes me so happy.
I keep wanting to ask you like you know what model of vacuum?
Is that because out that vacuum looks my it's like some German
model that my wife she was really thrilled and got it.
So you know I'm not going to You know, and like they're like
happier to vacuum and stuff. Just saying you might want to
think about that, but yes, I do need a better background and my
apology for airing out my dirty laundry.
No. I truly, I love it.
I that's funny. That's funny.
The realness is awesome. I want to ask something Within
the frame of everything we've been talking about what is the
thing that the average person can do?
Like, what would you challenge the average person the pleb to
do to broaden their minds and expand their Horizons.
Whether it's like, read this particular person or whatever.
The advice is, what do you think is the most effective thing that
people can do? I mean, in all honesty is going
to be deep subjectivity based upon who the person is, and how
they grow human world. Yeah, I think one of the biggest
ones is just really follow. Questions that you have in a
meaningful way look to history and look to people have wrote
about them and then for those of you that you know really want to
break out of the box, I'm a big fan of psychedelics.
Like I think it provides a radical altering and worldview
in a really powerful and meaningful way and not just
because like they're fun to get a wacky and stuff.
But I very much believe that it allows for your mind to make new
and different connections that would never be understood
before. And then also if you want to
actually go even A I think the possibility of experience where
you can have an ego death is really really profound because
in my opinion like you you actually get to directly touch
and experience the nothing, that is everything and those kind of
dumb statements make sense when you've really experienced.
And with that being said, I also want to emphasize like the, I
hate the pejorative calling them drugs because they're very, very
safe substance. Is there's very little known.
There's no known deaths. There are possibilities of some
minor things happen, but for the most part, they're really safe
and I makes me really sad that so many people have pejoratively
labeled labeled them as the drugs and put them in the same
category as heroin because for me personally, it really helped
me deal with some of my own problems that I had with
drinking too much and it also really opened me up to the idea
of spirituality, I was like a pretty staunch atheist before I
started experimenting. The psychedelics.
And it really opened me up to the possibility that there's
something to this world that I don't see or understand that I
think it's really important. So those would be kind of my two
main recommendations and yeah I think a lot of it is is just
really being serious about asking questions of ourselves,
you know. And I think that the action of
being serious about it alone is really important and that's
something I got from Heidegger because he's really big about,
you know, asking a question of being Like what does it mean to
be in our world? What does it mean for me to be
are Cason living in my home in you know the year 2022 with the
state of the world as it is. And I think the Deep
contemplation of those things can really flush itself out in
such a way that we can meet new and greater understanding not
only of ourselves. Hmm, the love.
Love that Eric. I hope that you.
And I get to meet in person because I fucking love pot and
shrimps. That are the two things that
come from the fucking Earth. I feel like that like sheep and
everything. You just said, like, getting
fucked up. Let's go.
Okay. Like, to be honest, like there's
so much validity and what he said about connecting the dots
and the ego death. And like, I'm very vocal.
There is a Pre-trip q. And then, my first psychedelic
trip was winter break of my senior year of college and I do
doctor some Pro. I'm a completely different human
being but I digress both trims and pot come from Earth.
Nothing from Earth should be illegal, just my two cents on
that Eric of the trio that makes up the call magazine live.
These two ugly faces up here as well as are the brains behind
the operation Chris back there. One of us three is about to
embark on You life Journey, much like you, they're about to get
married. I won't Doc's who, but what
advice do you have for our esteemed colleague who's going
to get married? Although only life a really nice
vacuum. Well, first of all true,
congratulations. I assume if you're marrying her,
she like knows all of the crazy stuff that you believe about
Bitcoin weekends. And I would say, really enjoy
it. And honor your partner and know
that it's it is a difficult and tumultuous Journey but through
your commitments to one another and willingness to be in
dialogue, you can really get through anything you know.
And yeah and I'd say allow for That love and cherish meant to
Blossom out of yourself and allow for it to humble yourself
and to commit yourself to. Now you're no longer just you,
but your a unit that will hopefully grow into a larger
units at one point in time. You'll be, you know, the father
of your children and the head of your household and he will lead
your family in such a way. And for me, one of the things
that really gives to me is no, I'm married.
And I have two kids is that I have to participate in fixing Me
for my children because I can't give them this world in those
stated saying and be able to face them as adults in the
future. Like I have to be able to have a
good explanation for what I was doing to try to make the world a
better place now, so that when they are adults, even if I lose
they can do like well like that fucked up like he was on the
right path. Yeah.
For the most part, I just need to know that.
I mean, sleep trying to change the future and to be Bitcoin is
The single most important way to do that I'll send Eric, how can
our audience stay up to date with your incredible, writing
your incredible thoughts, putting you on the spot and just
saying because of Gavin newsom's hatred towards us and preventing
you from joining us earlier. You got to come back.
You've just got ya, I'm so sorry.
When the power went out, I'll just like mother F.
So when my contractor came out, let me know.
The power is back on. I was literally struggling with
pulling a giant generator out of the back of my truck to try to
get hooked up to make this happen.
So but yes my apologies for my tardiness will blink Avenues and
for the time being and hopefully when we schedule this again, I
will just have power or my own backup generation to be able to
do that. Just turned out my own light,
wasn't the power going out of this time.
Thankfully but yeah, you can find my writings a crypto
sovereignty dot-org. I'm working with you guys a
Bitcoin magazine, to get all of my articles and asses into a
compilation and a book that I will be releasing and because of
all the inspiration and wonderful things that I've been
shared and have people reach out to me and say, hey, keep going.
I'm actually working on kind of my second book, which in my
opinion really is dealing with the Metaphysical issues at hand
because to me this all runs headlong into the metaphysics of
philosophy itself. And I feel like I've spent the
last decade trying to figure that out and it's really came
together for me in the last six months.
So I'm really excited about getting that out too.
Fantastic. I like to imagine that, you
know, as we've been talking about your power going out
because of the Gavin Newsom in reality, it's like you've got
some like Nikola Tesla like mind-body Wireless power
transmission system just outside of the window.
And you're like, yes, Gavin Newsom.
Meanwhile, there's like crazy, electric Fields like crackling
and you're exploring the higher Realms of Consciousness, so
White Sox, Legend, Roland, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, this was a
pleasure, man. I really appreciate you for
coming on and Yeah. Thanks for giving us some
insight into how you think and why you Bitcoin.
Thank you. Both very much and continue your
guys's, excellent workers. Well you guys have the bullhorn
and are getting to the most pleb so I appreciate your guys as
work as well. Do our best.
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