1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,880 Larry Fink, the largest asset manager in the world, buy 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:03,440 Bitcoin. Ray Daly, the largest fund 3 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:04,520 manager in the world, buy Bitcoin. 4 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:06,840 President Trump, president of the United States, buy Bitcoin 5 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:08,560 your cousin. Oh, Bitcoin's a scam. 6 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,080 It's so terrible. And it's like, look, guys, like 7 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:14,440 things change. Like Michael Saylor was against 8 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,560 Bitcoin in 2013, right? He changed his mind. 9 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,640 And so intelligence really is the signal of you being able to 10 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:20,800 change your mind and take action. 11 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,560 We're here with Mark Moss. How are the vibes? 12 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,840 How are you feeling? There's a lot of excitement here 13 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,440 because there's a lot of new things happening and it's been 14 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,160 coming for a long time. But what am I talking about 15 00:00:33,160 --> 00:00:37,360 specifically is the big move of these Bitcoin treasury company 16 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,440 plays. And so we're seeing a brand new 17 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,880 financial asset, the first new financial asset in 500 years 18 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,040 being used in ways to build new financial products and a new 19 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:47,840 financial system that we've just never seen before. 20 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,960 And it's happening super fast. It's very explosive. 21 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,280 A lot of money is being made. It's given us new terms, new 22 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,120 words, new metrics to measure things that we've never learned 23 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,640 about or heard about before. And there's a whole new group of 24 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,080 people that are here to learn about this. 25 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,040 I like that you say that because I was listening to an interview 26 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,320 with Michael Saylor and he was mentioning how we have sort of 27 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:11,120 like the traditional finance guys coming in as the new 28 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,880 Bitcoin class. What are your thoughts on that 29 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,680 new Bitcoin class and what can we expect from them? 30 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,600 Is it going to be sort of like the 2015 version of Bitcoin or? 31 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,920 Yeah, so let me just say I'm not as OG as some people. 32 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,520 I started buying Bitcoin in 2015. 33 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,120 It's about 300 bucks at the time when I learned about it and 34 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,640 really learned how it was a tool for freedom and really a tool 35 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,040 how we could win. As a freedom maximalist, I'm all 36 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,320 in. I got to go tell everybody about 37 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:37,320 it. I've never shut up since. 38 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:40,920 When you talk about the new class coming in, a lot of the OG 39 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,040 classes like, oh, they don't have the Bitcoin values. 40 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,720 They're not the cypherpunks, they're not here for the right 41 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,360 reasons. They're here for NGU. 42 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,160 Number go up. What I've often said is that you 43 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,480 come for the NGU, which is stay for the freedom. 44 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:59,200 And so I believe the best way to orange pill somebody is to let 45 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:00,480 them use a little bit of Bitcoin. 46 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,400 And once their interest is there, they'll Start learning 47 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,400 more about it. And so yes, they're coming for 48 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,280 the NGU. These are corporate types, these 49 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,240 are Wall Street types. They're here because they think 50 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:11,400 it's the best chance to make money. 51 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,120 And it is. I'm very hopeful that they'll 52 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,320 stay for the cyberpunk values of what Bitcoin stands for. 53 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,440 You're like the goats of simplifying things and having 54 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,440 people like understand them super easily and like easy to 55 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,920 digest. I've heard that many of like 56 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:32,520 this new wave of bitcoiners that's coming in, especially 57 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:37,080 seeing them be in, you know, DC for political reasons. 58 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,720 I've heard that some are trying to like centralized Bitcoin 59 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:43,160 mine. Is that possible? 60 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:44,880 Yeah. So one of the things that 61 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,120 everybody seems to be afraid of is that this corporatization of 62 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,640 Bitcoin, the financialization of Bitcoin creates that 63 00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:54,840 centralization. And so of course Bitcoin, it's 64 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,520 main attribute is it's decentralized. 65 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,920 And so it was really a bottom up movement of individuals that 66 00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:00,920 started buying it. And now as corporations are 67 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:03,440 coming, you know, Michael Saylor, MicroStrategy now holds 68 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,560 over 550,000 / 2% of the entire supply. 69 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,240 And a lot of people are like that. 70 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,600 That's centralization. Now he's going to manipulate the 71 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,000 price or he's going to control the network or all these things. 72 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,320 And there's a big misunderstanding. 73 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,160 First thing I would say is 80% of gold is centralized with 74 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,560 central banks, 90% of equities are centralized between like 75 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,400 Vanguard, State Street and BlackRock. 76 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,440 We're talking 8090 percent, 2%, like, come on, right? 77 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,040 We're a long way. But but more importantly, owning 78 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,360 more of the Bitcoin supply doesn't give you control of the 79 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:36,800 network. Because to the question you've 80 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,360 asked, we have the miners and then we have the nodes. 81 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,200 So the nodes run the database, right? 82 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,480 That's, that's the code and the databases, the nodes have to 83 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,040 achieve consensus. The miners are the ones 84 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,000 processing transactions. So the question that you asked 85 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,280 is there some centralization of the miners that's going under? 86 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,880 So these Bitcoin miners, the public ones are getting very big 87 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,360 and they control a lot of the, the hash power, the power of the 88 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,040 network, but it's all over the world. 89 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,720 And what happens is Bitcoin is, is built off of economic game 90 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,280 theory. So we're all in it for economic 91 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,440 interest to make money. And So what happens is if some 92 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,000 of these public Bitcoin miners, for example, Mara tried this, 93 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,120 they tried to censor blocks. They said they were going to 94 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,560 only mine, oh, fat compliant blocks. 95 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,640 So these are blocks that the government deemed are not 96 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,840 blacklisted, they're not under sanctions, things like that. 97 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,840 They quickly gave that up because they found if they're 98 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:32,800 censoring blocks, they can't be as financially competitive as 99 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,640 other ones that are open. And so certainly people will 100 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:37,520 try. I think it's sort of like human 101 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:41,120 nature to try to control things. Ultimately, I think it fails 102 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,240 because of the open source nature and because of the 103 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,360 incentives that are built in. It's funny, you mentioned about 104 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,080 centralization and I want to kind of steer it to the US 105 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,400 dollar. You recently just had one of 106 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,400 your recent videos blow up and it was about the US dollar being 107 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:02,400 like devalued, devalued and you talk about the reset, that it's 108 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,400 not a crash, that it's a reset. Can you explain a little bit 109 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:06,440 about that? Yeah. 110 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,520 So, you know, I'm an optimist. I believe that the future is so 111 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,240 abundant, we are about to see the greatest air of prosperity 112 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,840 in front of us. But there's a lot of Dumors and 113 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:19,480 they're going to warn you about the market crash coming and the 114 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,360 end of the dollar, like it's some imminent event. 115 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,520 Like any day now, the dollar is going to crash, the world's 116 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,560 going to be over, the financial markets going to crash like any 117 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,000 day. And it's this Dumor narrative 118 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,680 that really came from the gold space. 119 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,920 The only way to sell gold is to tell you that everything is 120 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,400 going to fall apart. And there's this doomsday 121 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,960 scenario where you need gold. But Bitcoin is technology. 122 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,200 Bitcoin is about hope. And So what I was talking about 123 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,560 is, yes, the dollar is crashing. It's a process. 124 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,440 It's not an event. It's not like in 12 months or 24 125 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,360 months, it's going to happen. It's happening. 126 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,560 The dollar continues to lose purchasing power. 127 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,280 And in that video specifically, I was talking about how the US 128 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:58,400 government actually wants the dollar to continue to devalue. 129 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,040 They want it to get weaker. And when you look at the dollar 130 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,520 strength as measured as the Dixie measured to other 131 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,040 currencies, we can see that we're pretty high historically. 132 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,760 The dollar is very strong compared to historical a median 133 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,760 right now. And so we want to bring that 134 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:19,000 down to a more historical level, which might be 15 to 20% 135 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,960 devaluation from here. And so when that devalues, then 136 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,360 the converse of that is asset prices go up. 137 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,480 Now, not all asset prices go up at the same rate. 138 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,720 Bitcoin is the most sensitive to that global liquidity. 139 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,360 So as the dollar goes down and the and the global liquidity 140 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,720 goes up, then Bitcoin will go up at a faster rate. 141 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,320 Can you talk about that process? Obviously, it's not going to be 142 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:45,000 in 12 months or 24 months. Do you think it happened because 143 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,160 of the Trump administration or it had, or it's been something 144 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,200 that's been happening and people are just now waking up to it? 145 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,240 It's a function of the monetary system. 146 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,040 So it's started long before Trump. 147 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,760 It started. I mean, Richard Nixon took us 148 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,000 off the dollar standard and we went from sort of a Bretton 149 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,840 Woods system, a gold back system, to a peer Fiat system. 150 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,200 And so in a peer Fiat system, money is created through debt 151 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,520 issuance. And in that system, the debt 152 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,680 becomes the asset in the system. So then the debt becomes an 153 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,640 asset to get more debt and more debt, right? 154 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,520 And so that system always has to continue to grow. 155 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,280 That's why we need inflation. Deflation is the worst thing 156 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,440 that can happen in that system. So it's a function of the 157 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,880 system. And so each president has spent 158 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,080 more, added more to the debt than the last, to the kind of 159 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:35,560 point you asked about the Trump administration. 160 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,560 They came in sort of fired up. They're going to balance the 161 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,840 budget, Elon Musk and Doze, they're going to get rid of 162 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,800 fraud and abuse and they're going to balance the budget. 163 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:44,160 And everyone's thrown in the towel. 164 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,080 Elon Musk has now stepped aside. He said, hey, look, we did great 165 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:48,560 work. We uncovered great things, but 166 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,680 there's zero appetite to cut the spending in the government. 167 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,600 And so our only hope is to grow our way out of this. 168 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,480 Scott Beset, head of the Treasury, said the same thing 169 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,440 about two weeks ago. He said, look, our best bet is 170 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:02,360 to grow our way out of this. And so that means two things. 171 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:04,280 So what do they mean grow our way out of that? 172 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,720 So we have debt and we have GDP. So there's a ratio. 173 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,800 And so right now we're at roughly almost 120% debt to GDP 174 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,240 ratio, but that's a ratio. So we could either lower the 175 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,760 debt or we could raise the GDP. So that's why we're talking 176 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,520 about growing our way out of it. And there's two ways that they 177 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,520 do that. Number one, unleashing 178 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,280 productivity. So bringing manufacturing back 179 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,160 to the US. In order for the US to be 180 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,000 competitive with manufacturing, we need AI, we need automation. 181 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,600 So there's a lot of wealth that'll be created there, a lot 182 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,440 of efficiency gains, but #2 inflation. 183 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,640 So when they inflate the money supply, it pushes the cost of 184 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,039 goods up. And by making things more 185 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:47,120 expensive, the GDP also goes up. And so that's what they mean by 186 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,600 growing a way out of this. It means a lot more inflation 187 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,360 coming on top of the prosperity as well. 188 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,560 And I want to go back to that video. 189 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:59,880 You talk about the Mara Lago Accord and how it's very similar 190 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,880 to the Plaza Accord. So how is the dollar being 191 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,040 deliberately weakened? So in the Mara Lago Accord, that 192 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,240 was in 1985 when I think it was the G7 got together and 193 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,240 basically agreed to repack back to the dollar and to allow the 194 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:15,840 dollar to devalue, to get weaker. 195 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,280 And so now there's these Mar a Lago Accords. 196 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,760 And it was Trump's economic advisor, Steve Moran, who 197 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,960 published a paper before Trump became president on exact. 198 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,760 And he's the one that came up with that term, The Mar a Lago 199 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,560 Accord. It's basically a play on the 200 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:32,200 Plaza Accord, which is allowing sort of the US trade to re 201 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,160 center around the US. That's part of what the tariffs 202 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,840 are about. So it's realigning global trade 203 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,040 around the US and then sort of re pegging back to the dollar. 204 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,160 So balancing trade, which would then allow the US to weaken the 205 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,400 dollar. And how do we do that 206 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,920 specifically? By printing lots and lots of it. 207 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,120 By increasing the debt. By increasing the money supply. 208 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,480 But my question is, we were talking about how the dollar is 209 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,760 already weakened, you know what I mean? 210 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,480 So how can they weaken it more if it's value has gone down 211 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,840 since 1971? That's a great, that's a great 212 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,840 question. So when we say weak, weak 213 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,160 compared to what? That's the key piece. 214 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,120 So when we say weak, so when as I said earlier, the dollar 215 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,800 measured against the Dixie, the dollar index. 216 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,800 So that's measured against other currencies. 217 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,760 So when you measure the dollar against the euro, which is the 218 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,920 main component of that basket or the yuan or the, you know, 219 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,480 whatever the peso, the Boulevard, whatever, when you 220 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,120 compare the dollar to other currencies, it's very strong. 221 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,640 When you compare the dollar to gold or to Bitcoin or to real 222 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,960 estate, it's very weak. So when you look at charts and 223 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,000 you see the dollar is devalued 90%, 90% compared to what? 224 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,880 Compared to hard assets like gold, But it's strong compared 225 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,600 to other currencies. And the reason why that matters 226 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,640 is because we're talking about resetting global trade. 227 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,000 And so when you're trading, when the US is trading with China, if 228 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,360 the dollar's too strong, it makes our exports too expensive. 229 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:57,720 So nobody wants to buy our exports. 230 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,280 If the dollar gets weaker, it's easier for us to trade, right? 231 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,360 And that's why we get these currency wars happening between 232 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,680 these nations because each nation is trying to make their 233 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,000 own trade bounds, their own goods more competitive on the 234 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,680 global stage. So yes, so they're trying to 235 00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:14,720 make it weaker to other currencies. 236 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,560 And when I said it's already weaker, when you look at it 237 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:22,320 compared to other currencies, it's historically high right now 238 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,720 and they want to weaken it compared to other currencies, 239 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,960 which will also weaken it to gold and Bitcoin and houses, 240 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,520 etcetera. So does that mean that the US is 241 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,840 printing less money compared to the other currencies? 242 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,840 Oh, we have been, yes, but we have been right. 243 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:40,160 So the So the Fed has been in a tightening cycle since 2022. 244 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:43,080 I thought they were just like printing, like there's no 245 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,720 tomorrow. Well, we have fiscal policy and 246 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,840 we have monetary policy. So fiscal policy is how much the 247 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,120 government spends. Then we have monetary policy was 248 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,600 what the central bank sets as the money supply. 249 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,680 And so the Fed monetary policy has been tightening. 250 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,680 Quantitative easing is when they're easing the monetary 251 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:02,400 supply, they're increasing it and they've been in tightening. 252 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,040 So they've been letting the bonds expire and roll off of 253 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,240 their books, which has been shrinking the money supply. 254 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:09,920 At the meantime, what the Biden administration did with Janet 255 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,280 Yellen at the Treasury, they were trying to offset that. 256 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,000 And so the Treasury, the fiscal policy was spending like crazy. 257 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,520 So what Janet Yellen was doing was issuing a lot of Treasuries 258 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,960 on the short end, like less than six month term to raise that 259 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,800 money and they were spending that money into the economy. 260 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,400 So we sort of had competing odds here. 261 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,280 You had the government fiscal policy fighting against like the 262 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,560 Fed's monetary policy at the same time. 263 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,120 If you're stuck spending dollars, at least stop earning 264 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,840 Fiat rewards. Use Fold and earn Bitcoin on 265 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:45,160 everyday spending, groceries, travel, even paying bills, and 266 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,240 take advantage of Bitcoin rewards with merchants you might 267 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,480 already shop with. It's the easiest way to Stacks 268 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,800 apps. So if you're in the United 269 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,640 States and you don't have Fold yet, what are you doing? 270 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,640 Buy, earn, and save in Bitcoin all in one app. 271 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,920 Fold is the ultimate toolkit for making Bitcoin savings a daily 272 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:41,090 habit. You've mapped out how Bitcoin 273 00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:46,730 responds to dollar devaluation. If this reset plan plays out, 274 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,360 what's your price target for Bitcoin? 275 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,160 The price target for Bitcoin. So at Bitcoin MENA, we were both 276 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,240 there. I gave AI, gave the closing 277 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,400 keynote and I projected it would be 203020402050. 278 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,840 So you can go watch that whole video for the full math. 279 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,920 But basically if we look at as the world continues to increase 280 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,480 the money supply, that money goes somewhere. 281 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,880 We don't want money, we want the goods and services it buys us. 282 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,960 So as they increase the money, the basket of goods it 283 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,600 appreciates. So right now we look at store 284 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,320 value assets and they're about a quadrillion, 1000 trillion 285 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,560 dollars. So that's gold, art, real 286 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,000 estate, equities, bonds, cash, etcetera. 287 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,280 If we continue on the path of increasing the money supply that 288 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,560 we've been on at about 10% a year, so we go, OK, so the money 289 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,200 supply expands by about 10% a year. 290 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,400 That basket expands about 10% a year, but not each asset goes up 291 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,360 at the same rate. So Bitcoin is the most sensitive 292 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,880 to global liquidity. It's going up at about 8.9 times 293 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,960 sensitivity compared to gold about 1.4% times, something like 294 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,720 that. I project that Bitcoin will 295 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,440 continue to go up faster than fine art or collectibles or gold 296 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,320 or real estate. And so that basket by 20-30 297 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:04,200 should be about 1.3 quadrillion. By 2040 should be about 3.5 298 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,520 quadrillion. So the question then becomes 299 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:08,720 like a venture capital perspective, if that's the total 300 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,200 addressable market, what percentage could Bitcoin capture 301 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,400 of that market? So if Bitcoin can get 1.25% of 302 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:21,200 that basket, 1% by 20-30, that would put it on par with bold at 303 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:26,360 about $21 trillion or be $1 million per Bitcoin by 2040, 304 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,120 which is about 15 years from now. 305 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,200 If Bitcoin could get 8% of that basket, it would put it on pace 306 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,080 to be about $14 million per Bitcoin now. 307 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,200 Is 8% realistic or does that seem too big? 308 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,720 Well, if we look at it from that lens, we know that Uber and 309 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,280 Airbnb both captured 10% of their market in less than 10 310 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:46,960 years. So we're talking about Bitcoin 311 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,760 getting only 8% in decades. And so to me, it seems sort of 312 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,440 bearish, sort of conservative, but those would be some 313 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:55,520 projections that I'm looking at it. 314 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,080 Was like playing it on the safe side. 315 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,360 And you mentioned about gold and Bitcoin. 316 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,760 Do you think since the US dollar is going to weaken a lot, are we 317 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,240 ever going to be seeing Bitcoin being priced in? 318 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,960 I don't know, Gold I. Don't think we'll see Bitcoin 319 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,320 priced in gold. No, I do think that Bitcoin 320 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,680 eventually becomes the unit of account that we start to price 321 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,720 things in. I'm predicting that happens 322 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,360 somewhere around 2050, maybe a little bit past about 25 years 323 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,440 from now already. A lot of bitcoiners that we know 324 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,120 already priced things in sats already. 325 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,000 I was talking maybe a little spoiler, but I was talking with 326 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,000 Marty Bent earlier and he's working on a product that 327 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,480 everything that you look on the website instantly converts 328 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,120 dollars into sats. No. 329 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,720 So we can start to be seen it that way. 330 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,600 But I think that we'll eventually price everything in 331 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,160 SAT's and I think that's about 25 years, but but no reason to 332 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,120 price that in gold. What does your portfolio look 333 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,320 like right now? Can you give us a little like 334 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,720 inside? Yeah, we'll breakdown my total 335 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:50,520 portfolio and then we'll breakdown the Bitcoin side of 336 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:50,960 it. OK. 337 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,640 First thing I would say is that there's levels to this game. 338 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,560 So you see a lot of people on Twitter or X talking about, you 339 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,320 know, sell your chairs, go all in on Bitcoin and that's cool 340 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,080 when you got a couple 1000 bucks, right? 341 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,800 If you have a couple 100 million, obviously you own 342 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,800 different things. For me personally, it's my 343 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,720 businesses. So multiple businesses that I 344 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,880 have. That's one real estate is 345 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,040 another piece of it. And then the third is, is my 346 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,920 Bitcoin sort of tech plays the bitcoins that I'm sorry, the 347 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:17,560 business side is where we make the money. 348 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:18,680 That's where we create the wealth. 349 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,839 And then I buy real estate for tax efficiency. 350 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,720 So I buy I buy real estate so I don't have to pay tax on the 351 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,079 money that I make. And then the after tax dollars, 352 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,240 which are more money than those goes into some of these Bitcoin 353 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,040 tech plays. So on that side, it's 354 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,320 specifically Bitcoin, pretty much all Bitcoin. 355 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,760 And then I have a fund, so the Bitcoin opportunity Fund. 356 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,040 So we're investing into businesses that are building on 357 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:41,720 and around the Bitcoin ecosystem. 358 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,600 So the majority of that in Bitcoin, some of that in the 359 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,640 fund where we're investing into these businesses that are 360 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,280 building on and around Bitcoin. And then a smaller piece that's 361 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:53,800 in some of the more speculative plays, so a lot of these Bitcoin 362 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,840 treasury plays. So we're getting into all of 363 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,400 those both in the fund and personally, I'm investing into 364 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,400 these companies as well. There's some convergence of AI 365 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,600 and Bitcoin coming together where AI agents are working with 366 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,680 Bitcoin directly. So I'm investing into some of 367 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,080 that as well. And those are small percentage 368 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,920 of My Portfolio, but the majority of that would just be 369 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,560 Bitcoin. And what can we expect of AI and 370 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,360 Bitcoin working together? Can you tell us a little? 371 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:18,200 Bit yeah, so in again in that Bitcoin Mina talk I talked about 372 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,920 around 2030 is where I think this will really start to take 373 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:22,600 off. And so already we're seeing so 374 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,640 for example, a big area that we invest in is Bitcoin mining. 375 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,000 And in the Bitcoin mining space, we have data centers and a lot 376 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,280 of them are now bringing on AI data centers, high compute is 377 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,160 what we call it. So we're already starting to see 378 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,320 sort of these Bitcoin miners be Bitcoin and AI data centers, if 379 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:39,960 you will. So some current versions there, 380 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,120 but specifically what I'm thinking is that Bitcoin is 381 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,320 open, borderless, permission list, all of these things. 382 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,880 It's also person lists, so you don't have to be a person to 383 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,640 have a bank account. And so now we have the rise of 384 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,520 autonomous AI agents. So I can basically program an AI 385 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,480 agent to go hire other AI agents to go do tasks for me, research, 386 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,000 write, build websites, run marketing campaigns, things like 387 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:03,320 that. And. 388 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,440 You would pay them in Bitcoin. Well, yes. 389 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,520 So I would give my agent the ability to go do all these 390 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,360 transactions on my behalf. And they can have a wallet and 391 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:14,360 it can have Bitcoin and it can go do these things and it can 392 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:17,240 spend the Bitcoin, It can hire other AI agents to go do these 393 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,560 things for me. And we've already started to see 394 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,480 this. So for example, one AI agent, 395 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,560 this has already been done. It can go do research and find 396 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,280 the best online business, then it can go write the business 397 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,840 plan, Then it can go find domain names to match. 398 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,280 And it went and it bought the domain name using Lightning to 399 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:34,920 do that. So we're already starting to see 400 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,960 this happen. Part of the reason why is it 401 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,080 can't use the Fiat system for this. 402 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,480 An AI agent can't have a bank account, but more specifically, 403 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,480 you can't do microtransactions at high frequency with the Fiat 404 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,720 system. And so in order for these AI 405 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,800 agents to do these high frequency transactions, 406 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,880 microtransactions, it's going to need something like Bitcoin to 407 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,680 do that. So I think that's going to be a 408 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:56,920 over the next probably 12 to 24 months is going to be an area 409 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:58,000 that's going to rapidly grow and. 410 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,720 Also, one of the things that you also talk about is how we're 411 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:06,480 experiencing one of the biggest wealth transfers in the last 50 412 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,120 years. What's the biggest mistake you 413 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:11,360 think that this generation or people are going to make? 414 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,760 What I'd say probably the biggest mistake that people are 415 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,760 making in this generation is most people have lost their 416 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,400 ability to think critically or with an open mind. 417 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,760 And I see this like crazy. I make videos and we get 418 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,720 thousands of comments and I read the comments on these videos and 419 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,280 I just think to myself that these people are just, they're 420 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,200 never going to make it. People bring these biases in and 421 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,960 these assumptions in and they can't even have an open enough 422 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,440 mind to even ask if it could be true, to even go do research to 423 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,680 even see if it could be true. They instantly believe it's not 424 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,680 part of that's the school system that we have, that we have this 425 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,840 industrial era school system that's trained people up with 426 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,800 these old tools for a world that we're no longer in. 427 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,440 But I'd say this is the number one thing though. 428 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,480 The world has changed just in the last 10 years. 429 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,280 Most people were taught for industrial system. 430 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,760 And so they're not able to see the new world that we're in. 431 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,720 They're not able to have an open enough mind to go explore it and 432 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,240 to even think that it's possible. 433 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,440 And that's what's going to hold people back because it's as 434 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,600 simple as just buying Bitcoin. I put AX post a few weeks ago 435 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,800 and it was like Larry Fink, the largest asset manager in the 436 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,400 world, buy Bitcoin. Ray Dalio, largest fund manager 437 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,560 in the world, buy Bitcoin. President Trump, president of 438 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,320 the United States, buy Bitcoin your cousin. 439 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:25,840 Oh, Bitcoin's a scam. It's so terrible. 440 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,040 And it's like, look, guys, like things change and like you need 441 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,160 to change your mind. Like Michael Saylor was against 442 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,320 Bitcoin in 2013, right? He changed his mind. 443 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,040 And, and so intelligence really is the signal of you being able 444 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,280 to change your mind and take action. 445 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,880 And so I think that's the single biggest thing that's gonna hold 446 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,440 people. Back People say the ones that 447 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,720 survive the longest are the ones that are willing to adapt, yeah. 448 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaking of adaptability, what generation do you think 449 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,240 understands Bitcoin the most? Well, who understands? 450 00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:00,520 It's the most, I would say, 30 to 50 year old range because 451 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,280 they're old enough to have seen the damage done by the great 452 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,640 financial crash, understand the dangers of the Fiat system, but 453 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,440 still young enough to grasp technology and how it's 454 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,400 reshaping things. And so there's sort of this 455 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,880 middle generation, they saw the world before the Internet and 456 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,240 they understand the dangers of Fiat. 457 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,680 They still understand gold a little bit, but then they 458 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,280 understand the tech. Obviously the younger 459 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,960 generation, the 16 year olds, they were just raised on it. 460 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:24,440 They don't know any different, but they don't know any 461 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,120 different. But doesn't mean they understand 462 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:27,760 it. They don't understand the need 463 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,320 for it, the mechanism of it. So I'd say probably the 30 to 50 464 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,720 year old generation, the straddle, the straddle. 465 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,360 Generation. Not even the baby boomers. 466 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:36,760 I think they're like the skip generation. 467 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,240 At the baby boomers are little on the other. 468 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:39,760 On the other side, they're a little too far. 469 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,920 My last question is what is your hottest Bitcoin take? 470 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,440 My hottest Bitcoin take is that Bitcoin is a cheat code. 471 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,920 All you have to do is buy one asset and you can outperform 472 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,640 everybody else. And for most people, you can buy 473 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,520 Bitcoin probably have tax free income for the rest of your life 474 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,080 within five years to retire off of. 475 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,240 But debt is your friend. Leverage is your friend, but you 476 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,280 have to grow up and mature to learn how to use it properly. 477 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:05,880 Awesome. Thank you so much, Mark.