1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000 As the world moves increasingly towards the mainstream adoption 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,100 of Bitcoin and other digital assets Moon, mortgage will make 3 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:09,800 it possible to materialize your assets in real estate, through 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,400 the collateralization of mortgages with Bitcoin and other 5 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,800 digital assets. Mood mortgage will be launching 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,500 Lending Solutions to allow investors to easily leverage 7 00:00:17,500 --> 00:00:20,300 their assets to purchase investment in owner-occupied 8 00:00:20,300 --> 00:00:23,900 properties. Mood mortgages crypto mortgage 9 00:00:23,900 --> 00:00:26,900 will be launching soon for home buyers in Texas, Florida and 10 00:00:26,900 --> 00:00:30,000 Colorado, and will be open to investors in Most states across 11 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:31,800 the u.s. for investment properties. 12 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:33,700 Welcome to the future of mortgages. 13 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,200 Visit mood mortgage dot IO today, to register your interest 14 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,300 and learn more. Mood mortgage residential is 15 00:00:40,300 --> 00:00:43,800 registered with the nmls under number 235 334. 16 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:51,600 Did Jeff? Thanks for joining us today. 17 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,300 Appreciate it. Yeah, no problem. 18 00:00:54,300 --> 00:01:00,000 Good sit good to be here, Tess. Hey, we're just in another call. 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,500 About very, very excited for this conversation. 20 00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:03,900 Jeff. It's, it was a, it was a lot of 21 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:07,100 fun seeing you down at Pacific Bitcoin week or so ago and 22 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,700 really love picking your brain about what you're doing, kind of 23 00:01:09,700 --> 00:01:12,300 in the private Equity space on the Bitcoins. 24 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:14,400 I think a lot of people in the audience will have fun here in 25 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,000 about what you're doing and what kind of projects are happening 26 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,300 on layer 2 and Beyond on bitcoin. 27 00:01:19,300 --> 00:01:22,800 So love to pick your brain on. All of that as this conversation 28 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,000 goes on. So I don't know if we want to 29 00:01:26,008 --> 00:01:29,200 start just kind of with your general take on where we are 30 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:30,800 right now. Like you know, there's a lot of 31 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:35,300 crazy stuff happening whether it's ft x SV, F, you know, 32 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:38,700 digital assets grayscale. Everything going on everywhere, 33 00:01:38,700 --> 00:01:41,200 just seems kind of crazy. It feels crazy out there. 34 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,500 Feels like a clown world. And so I'd love love it. 35 00:01:44,500 --> 00:01:46,500 If we could get into just kind of what are your thoughts. 36 00:01:46,500 --> 00:01:49,100 So, if, you know, from a from kind of the 50,000 foot view 37 00:01:49,700 --> 00:01:52,000 with where we are, where the world is right now. 38 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,800 What do you think about Bitcoin right now? 39 00:01:53,900 --> 00:01:55,900 Now, is it really dead like the headlines? 40 00:01:55,900 --> 00:01:59,100 Say and why is, why isn't it? Why is it more happening with 41 00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:01,900 SPF and everything going on? It seems like he's kind of just 42 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:04,400 lounging in the Bahamas and speaking at conferences right 43 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,900 now. So what's going on in this crazy 44 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:07,800 Crown World? Let's get your take on it, just 45 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:13,500 to start up. Just that one and it just comes 46 00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:15,300 back is just a really simple premise. 47 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:19,100 And you know I've said this a million times then the natural 48 00:02:19,100 --> 00:02:23,900 productivity that should clothes to all humans and as technology 49 00:02:23,900 --> 00:02:28,300 progresses or we crate crate, we solve problems should reduce 50 00:02:28,300 --> 00:02:31,300 prices. It's not because we live in a 51 00:02:31,300 --> 00:02:34,200 system that controls those prices and has to make them up 52 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,600 to protect protect otherwise debt, that would collapse, which 53 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,000 the entire system. Bill time. 54 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,100 And that means you have to introduce Miss information and 55 00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:47,500 money because all money is, is information. 56 00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:51,100 And people are looking through that misinformation all around 57 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:55,300 the world and and, and leaning in to try to create more of what 58 00:02:55,300 --> 00:02:57,700 they think. They want more money to try to 59 00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:01,800 escape that system and it's just feeding back into that. 60 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,700 So the so the and many people in the Bitcoin, space know this 61 00:03:05,700 --> 00:03:08,100 already. If you're self custody and in 62 00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:11,800 Bitcoin you're just a you're just completely away from all of 63 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,600 that noise. As it's disintegrating and 64 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,600 getting worse and worse. And worse does have major 65 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,300 repercussions because it's the world we all live in right now 66 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:24,600 and is that transitions. But but all of the, I think, the 67 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,100 all of this is predictable out of what must happen in money. 68 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:37,600 So so why is it predictable like what about Fiat incentivizes 69 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,200 this kind of clown World behavior and what makes Bitcoin 70 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:41,400 different? What is bitcoin? 71 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,800 Incentivizes the whole Fiat experiment. 72 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,700 It's essentially comes down to we're going to transfer wealth 73 00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:50,400 unnaturally. We're going to we're going to 74 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,400 steal the productive capacity of humans and transferred to some 75 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,900 people to, to pretend we can look after those other humans 76 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:02,500 better. That's ultimately what the 77 00:04:02,500 --> 00:04:07,800 entire thing comes down to it. So you're stealing your that 78 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,800 transfer is theft and you're stealing it from some people to 79 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,500 others. You don't eat and you why? 80 00:04:14,500 --> 00:04:18,100 We don't notice it. We don't notice it 2% theft or 81 00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:24,600 1% theft, but but when it turns into 10 and 20% theft, we start 82 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,900 to notice it like somebody walking into your house and 83 00:04:26,900 --> 00:04:30,500 stealing one percent of your stuff each year he might not Not 84 00:04:30,500 --> 00:04:33,700 notice it being gone but all of a sudden you start noticing that 85 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:37,800 theft at the at a greater rate ultimately Jeff. 86 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:42,300 And a you know that many people on this call know this if it's 87 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,600 the entire system relies on something that that has to do 88 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:50,900 that to survive, it requires and all of the defense of that 89 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:57,800 system is really a defense of. I believe that we should make 90 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:03,400 debt cheaper or transfer more. To be able to function to be 91 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,100 able to run a productive Society. 92 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:08,300 The hardest thing to understand is Bitcoin is so that's the 93 00:05:08,300 --> 00:05:09,800 world. We've always lived in and we've 94 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,200 we've typically gone to war to reset the in Bitcoin, as a 95 00:05:13,207 --> 00:05:16,300 non-violent, transition to the other side, all people have to 96 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:19,300 do is move to the other side and spend more and more of the to 97 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:21,500 move into Bitcoin and spend more of the time there. 98 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,300 But we've never seen something like that, quiet, as humans 99 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:25,800 before. So that may end. 100 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:30,700 And so if there was a system that's before people, Well, if 101 00:05:30,700 --> 00:05:34,400 they didn't understood what the Senate Bitcoin was, if there was 102 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,700 a system that was able to take that power out of human hands 103 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,800 forever. That would be, that would be 104 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:47,400 quite a remarkable achievement, but it, but it would also mean 105 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,100 that all of the people benefiting from that system 106 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,100 would probably try to fight that sort of that exact, that's 107 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:56,200 Innovation or that Discovery or invention, whatever you want to 108 00:05:56,207 --> 00:05:58,000 call it. So, I think that's just where we 109 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,600 are, and we're in the now, they fight you stage. 110 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,800 How long do you think the in just four people in the 111 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,200 audience? So, so the they have the four 112 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,600 stages, right? Of accepting a new technology. 113 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,600 First, they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they 114 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,900 fight you and then you win. So, so to Jeff's point, he's 115 00:06:17,900 --> 00:06:20,700 saying, we're at about stage 3, right now, then they fight you. 116 00:06:20,700 --> 00:06:23,000 And this, this can be kind of a painful stage, for sure. 117 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,200 It's basically when the cultures clash and and things get 118 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,200 serious. What do you think, Jeff? 119 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,700 How long does this? Then they fight you phase. 120 00:06:30,700 --> 00:06:32,700 Last. Is this just like a year. 121 00:06:32,700 --> 00:06:34,600 A couple of years. Do you think this may go on for 122 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,700 decades? What's your read on it? 123 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:41,600 Well, it's hard to say that specifically if it's actually 124 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,000 why I spent so much time. So if you understand the 125 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,900 plumbing of both systems, you understand it, and that's what I 126 00:06:47,907 --> 00:06:49,600 went through. I probably understood the 127 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,600 plumbing of the existing system more when I went through my book 128 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,200 and then and and and at the end of my book, I just left over the 129 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,800 opportunity of Bitcoin, but I was probably not as deep as I am 130 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,200 up to it. Certainly, I wasn't steep as I 131 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:04,700 am. Today on bitcoin is 132 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:08,100 understanding that it's literally Unstoppable and if you 133 00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:11,500 understand that it's Unstoppable and it's just based on truth, 134 00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:15,000 the question goes, why would you want to stop it? 135 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:19,000 If it's a better technology of money and is based on truth and 136 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:24,400 it produces, a better return for Emma did better Society for All 137 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,400 Humans. What would your advantage be in 138 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,600 stopping it and so but but how long is this going to play out? 139 00:07:31,700 --> 00:07:34,500 It's going to be chaotic. It's going to Be really chaotic 140 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,400 monopolies. Don't die over Network effects. 141 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,200 Don't die overnight. They're they're, they're 142 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,800 persistent. And there's a lot of things that 143 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,600 are going to be thrown at this along the way. 144 00:07:45,900 --> 00:07:50,500 But it doesn't, I kind of zoom out by zone out from all of that 145 00:07:50,500 --> 00:07:52,800 because I'm not really in this for price. 146 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,400 In fact, if you measure, I've said this many times, but if you 147 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,100 measure actually, what's really happening with Bitcoins with a 148 00:07:59,108 --> 00:08:03,100 lag, is that all prices will fall against Bitcoin forever, 149 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,900 It's not private bitcoin price. Going up, people that are 150 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:10,200 measuring Bitcoin price, going up or, or actually defaulting to 151 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,200 the Miss measurement of the currency that they're using. 152 00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:20,900 I love it. What and then you should jump in 153 00:08:20,907 --> 00:08:23,200 here after this but it's so one other question for you because 154 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,800 this is something I think about life life. 155 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,300 On a Bitcoin standard say say things happen sooner sooner than 156 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:31,500 later and we get on a Bitcoin standard. 157 00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:33,299 Let's call it 10 years. Just to be fun. 158 00:08:33,299 --> 00:08:35,400 I don't think it happens that fast, but maybe it does. 159 00:08:36,100 --> 00:08:37,900 What happens to things like, investing? 160 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:40,299 What happens to, you know, private Equity, what happens to 161 00:08:40,299 --> 00:08:43,600 investing in the stock market, and like bombs, new bonds, even 162 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,100 exist in or do they look completely different at that 163 00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:48,000 point? What's your view of the world? 164 00:08:48,100 --> 00:08:53,500 And if we were to go on to a Bitcoin standard, okay, we are 165 00:08:53,500 --> 00:08:55,200 going to go on to bitcoin standard. 166 00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:58,300 It's just a matter of time on which countries do it first and 167 00:08:58,300 --> 00:09:03,300 such but but but fear and greed will still exist in any market 168 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,800 and let's use the FTX still and it's going to be way better this 169 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,800 or yield and yield offering products similar to what a bank 170 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,700 would do. If because of a fractional 171 00:09:12,700 --> 00:09:16,500 Reserve System and at that, if you offered more yield, you 172 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:18,600 would get more people chasing Bank. 173 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,600 Then another bank would offer more yield and you and he would 174 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,000 change. You'd Chase up to a point where 175 00:09:25,700 --> 00:09:27,500 we're the nothing would be backing it. 176 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:30,300 And the government would have to come in and save the day that 177 00:09:30,300 --> 00:09:34,800 same thing happens in in crypto land because because they have 178 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,300 no counterparty risk, no Thunder. 179 00:09:37,300 --> 00:09:39,300 Party risk on bitcoin and a free market. 180 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:42,000 That says. So if I create this other coin 181 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,700 and I say or time I leveraged Bitcoin and say I have it, I can 182 00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:51,100 offer yield and If I offer more yield and somebody else, I'll 183 00:09:51,100 --> 00:09:55,800 gain those people coming into my my ecosystem and it works until 184 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,400 it doesn't and then it unwinds to 0 because of the counterparty 185 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:01,100 risk and nobody's going to save it. 186 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:06,300 And so if you just said, fear and greed in all markets, we can 187 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:09,500 we can expect fear and greed to remain. 188 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,700 As part of human nature. We could, it's always been in 189 00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:15,800 human nature, suspected, always will be. 190 00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:21,500 And that means if Confined an advantage, they will find an 191 00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:24,700 advantage. Now, let's use debt on that and 192 00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:27,000 let's use what's happening because these are totally 193 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,700 opposite systems one system. We live in today means any dead. 194 00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:35,600 I take over long-term, I pay back with cheaper dollars 195 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:41,800 tomorrow, so it Vantage meas to take take that if I'm on the 196 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,000 right side of that and especially if I have an implicit 197 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,100 guarantee by the government will bail me out. 198 00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:52,100 Out because I'm too big to fail. Then I can keep on creating 199 00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:55,200 larger and larger Monopoly Forever on that implicit 200 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,900 guarantee that somebody is going to be the taxpayers are going to 201 00:10:57,900 --> 00:11:05,200 bail me out but it relies on, on my my value of my currency is 202 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,100 getting worthless worthless. So the debt and paying back and 203 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:11,200 cheaper dollars to more tomorrow Bitcoin. 204 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,500 Relies on exactly the opposite, the value of Bitcoin is going up 205 00:11:15,500 --> 00:11:20,300 in relation to everything else. That means, if you took Dad, 206 00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:25,900 let's say you take dead on on a Bitcoin standard, then then it 207 00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:30,200 means your real interest rate on that Bitcoin standard is, is 208 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:34,500 going to be more expensive. And that means that you wouldn't 209 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:38,100 fund things that that you wouldn't. 210 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:42,100 Or if I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm using, I'm going to just 211 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:45,100 blow that money. Then I'm going to get burned. 212 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:47,900 And actually probably the counterparty is as well because 213 00:11:47,900 --> 00:11:50,300 it come back to collect on the debt and due to be nothing 214 00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:52,900 there. So in that what's happening 215 00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:57,200 today in that system is that whole debt that we live in 216 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,200 today, is being repriced, buy Bitcoin, or being completely the 217 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,800 entire debt side is being repressed and Bitcoin in The 218 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,000 Loft. I'm not saying there won't be 219 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,800 any debt and for a while there be kind of fear, and greed old, 220 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,800 I've Drive markets, but there'd be way, less less because you 221 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:19,700 won't need it. Yeah, I actually agree with you. 222 00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:22,200 I think I think that's the kind of The Logical conclusion is 223 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,200 just going to be, it's going to take the entire Fiat system that 224 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,900 we're so used to this credit based system and just flip it on 225 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:30,200 its head. Everything is gonna almost run, 226 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,600 run in the opposite direction. So be very interesting to see 227 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,800 how life works on a Bitcoin standard. 228 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:37,900 Hey Jeff. I have a, I have a few questions 229 00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:40,300 and I some thoughts here but would love to hear your input. 230 00:12:40,300 --> 00:12:43,600 So recently, I like the last six months has been, you know, just 231 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,900 this this kind of Never Ending Story of counterparty risk and 232 00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:51,200 blow ups and And, you know, I'll put skated leverage counterparty 233 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,700 risk. Like we were just referring to, 234 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,600 you know, if like, you know, there's probably some listeners 235 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,200 on here that we say stuff like a Bitcoin standard or 236 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,200 hyperventilation, and they just nod their head and say, yeah, I 237 00:13:01,208 --> 00:13:03,100 agree and there's other listeners that are saying, you 238 00:13:03,108 --> 00:13:06,800 know, these guys are totally out of their mind crazy brainwashed. 239 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,200 And so to kind of bridge the gap, a little bit, you know, 240 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,200 with Bitcoin trading at seven, and sixteen thousand seventy 241 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,900 percent from the highs. I mean, it's obviously done this 242 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:17,800 before, but you know, many were saying, this is a macro asset 243 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,900 this Is different, you know, the whole the whole nine yards. 244 00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:25,200 How is Bitcoin as this? This absolutely scarce asset 245 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,800 with a credible monetary policy. How does it escape from say the 246 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,700 same the same fate of gold? You know, another monetary 247 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:35,500 Bearer asset that got kind of co-opted from the state what 248 00:13:35,500 --> 00:13:38,500 differentiates that from gold and maybe what what looks 249 00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:42,100 different this next time around, you know, next cycle or you 250 00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:45,100 know, a few years from now, kind of coming out of this whole, 251 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:48,700 this whole mess with all these, all these Counterparties going 252 00:13:48,700 --> 00:13:51,800 under. Yeah, two things, the self 253 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,100 custody of Bitcoin different differentiated cells, and they, 254 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:02,000 and that Network velocity of the lightning becoming peer-to-peer. 255 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,200 It's forming the base layer of the period of a peer-to-peer 256 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,100 internet with money inside of that Network. 257 00:14:09,500 --> 00:14:13,900 And so what what and you know this but for the other people, 258 00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:17,700 if you just looked at gold and something pegged to gold and 259 00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:22,300 then Bank creating a lending instrument on top of gold. 260 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,900 You could just say through human nature. 261 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,700 Then then banks that Leverage, The Gold more would win, more of 262 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:35,600 the share until a collapse of the system which they which not 263 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,200 every people would go back to try to get their gold and it 264 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,800 wouldn't be there. And so and every bank would 265 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,900 compete in that same sense and then over time because people 266 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:48,600 would go and try to get their gold and it wouldn't be, their 267 00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:52,900 governments would come in and say we're going to sit on top of 268 00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:54,100 that. We're going to protect you from 269 00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:56,100 the bank. And it would happen at the 270 00:14:56,100 --> 00:15:00,000 government level and what you see throughout Society you see 271 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:06,200 ever increasing debt running on top of that system forever with 272 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,900 no cleansing of the system. And when I say, cleansing of the 273 00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:13,500 system until a war that resets holes, whole system in the 274 00:15:13,500 --> 00:15:16,600 rulers, essentially, the winners of the war, reset, the system. 275 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:20,700 And but, but that's what leads to these long-term debt cycles 276 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,800 and Bitcoin because of the K. What you see Joe Woods Just 277 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,300 Happening. Nobody saves you. 278 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,100 If you have your Bitcoin on one of these exchanges and that and 279 00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:35,100 you've been collecting a coupon of nine percent based on paper 280 00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:38,000 Bitcoin, when it goes the other way, it's gone. 281 00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:40,700 There's there it was never there, it's gone. 282 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,300 So that's that's kind of probably the first line of 283 00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:46,500 defense. The free market just wipes you 284 00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:52,100 out instead of moving it, higher on it on, on a government stack 285 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:54,900 that says we're going to socialize the losses. 286 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,200 Protect the people in control who created the problem in the 287 00:15:58,208 --> 00:16:02,500 first place. And then this and and and then 288 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,500 then, so if you just play that out then I think if you just 289 00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:12,600 play that first layer Bitcoin Bitcoin out, then you'd say, 290 00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:16,000 would people create a whole bunch of Leverage on it and 291 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,400 would fear and greed overtime, wipe them out but we would 292 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,900 emerge with a similar type of similar. 293 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,400 Of financial industry that we have today on top of that coin 294 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,900 with stuff pegged to bitcoin. But then wiping out value in 295 00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:36,800 these in these big Cycles. Yes, that's what it would look 296 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,100 like. But when you but when you 297 00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:43,700 combine the lightning or kind of when you when you think about 298 00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:46,800 Bitcoin and layers and lightning becomes a peer-to-peer 299 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,800 transaction Network on top of that, that means the need for 300 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,200 that debt in the first place, just move goes away. 301 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,100 Thanks for the answer. Yeah, I agree there. 302 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,500 I think part of the thing it's been kind of frustrating but 303 00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:07,900 also, you know, it would it would be hilarious and who would 304 00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:11,200 if it wasn't so sad and tragic is, you know, the reality that 305 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,700 we have this and non-sovereign money that you can verify trip 306 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:17,200 like, in a very trivial manner with your own node. 307 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,200 That, you know, it's like takes almost you can you can I mean 308 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,599 how you can do it on your phone at this point, with with that, 309 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:26,000 with how capable the new new smartphones are and how much 310 00:17:26,099 --> 00:17:28,400 Storage these things have and to see, you know, all these 311 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,900 blow-ups we're like three arrows Capital had a there a um on a 312 00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:37,800 spread half on a PDF and you know FTX had an Excel sheet with 313 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,500 an API backdoor for their auditor and like all this stuff 314 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:44,100 and it's like well and even like grayscale and I don't think 315 00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:46,100 necessarily that these guys are Bad actors. 316 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:47,700 I don't think that actually, I don't. 317 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:51,500 But, you know, it's very trivial to Simply sign with your keys 318 00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:53,600 and say, hey, we have the Bitcoin, or we don't mind if it 319 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,200 wasn't me, say I closed and trust and the Example of gray 320 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,800 scale. You can just pull your funds 321 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,100 with lightning. You can pull your funds at 5 322 00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:01,700 seconds with an entree and transaction. 323 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:05,400 They would take you know ten ten minutes 20 minutes and so all 324 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,900 these blow-ups happening you know and like he's Bank runs on 325 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:09,200 these. You know kind of fractional 326 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,200 Reserve bucket shops it's just it's kind of amazing that 327 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,100 people, you know, just took this. 328 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,600 You know, there's really really big idea for a casino and then 329 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,200 obviously this speculation speculation native to bitcoin 330 00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:26,800 like there's no doubt about that and keep calling with So when 331 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,900 you when you talk about these other fractional reserves to FTX 332 00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:32,800 or anything else, it's exactly how the existing Financial 333 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,000 system works exactly. But the existing Financial 334 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,800 system that we trust in is for orders of magnitude bigger. 335 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:45,700 It's ten thousand times bigger than Bitcoin and Bitcoin and we 336 00:18:45,700 --> 00:18:47,200 measure our life through that system. 337 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,300 So when it manipulates money, when it's social when it, when 338 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:55,800 it essentially, socializes the losses and transfers the winds 339 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,900 To, to the centralized power of that system, we don't notice it 340 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:04,700 because but it's what's happening today and if you just 341 00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:08,400 if you just play that forward, If the Fed continues to tighten 342 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,000 and and what you're saying in China is actually a, I think a 343 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,100 result of the tightening that they're trying to do. 344 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,300 This is all connected. If the Fed is, If the Fed 345 00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:23,300 continues to tighten the actual cascading spiral that you're 346 00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:25,600 going to see on the entire Financial system. 347 00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:32,600 Except for Bitcoin is going to melt mines, but but they don't 348 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,000 see it because of that lag effect and that in that in that, 349 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,200 in the system, they're living in is forwarders magnitude. 350 00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:43,200 So they're measuring Bitcoin by that system without realizing 351 00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:47,000 the risk inherent in, that system, the entire system only 352 00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:51,100 only exists on a belief that somebody's going to come in and 353 00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:53,400 save the day by socializing losses. 354 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,900 Yeah, it's like it's like the example is, you know, once you 355 00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:02,400 once we kind of realized the like a balance sheet leak or, 356 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:06,300 you know, just their positioning like that FTX was was a 357 00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:10,000 collateralized against their ftt tokens with no natural buyers. 358 00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:15,300 It's like imagine if the fed or you know some some omnipotent 359 00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:17,600 power came in was like, all right we'll buy all your FTP 360 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,700 tokens for you but continue working. 361 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,300 Well by this with the funny money and socialize the losses. 362 00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:24,300 It's like. That sounds ridiculous, right? 363 00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:28,700 Like obviously the Or anyone else went by ftt tokens but like 364 00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:31,100 what happened in 08 09 like what was tarp right? 365 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,800 Like they were buying garbage debt Securities and no one else 366 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,000 wanted to recapitalize system and like, what happened? 367 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,400 I'm sorry for what happened in 2020, what's happening and stir 368 00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:43,900 and and then people don't realize that the house that 369 00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:45,400 they're measuring that's gone up. 370 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:51,300 In value is is gone down in real value against and Bitcoin. 371 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:54,600 And that's why because it's just me, it's manipulated currency 372 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,400 that you has to keep Upon creating that result, Jeff. 373 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,700 I mean do you want to talk at all about what you're doing with 374 00:20:59,700 --> 00:21:01,000 like, ego death? I don't know if you're like 375 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,400 permitted to talk about that or like some of the stuff you're 376 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,700 seeing on Lightning, we can go really anywhere you want with 377 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:09,100 this with this combo, but I mean we've talked a lot over the last 378 00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:13,100 month or so or it really 6 months about the, the crypto 379 00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:16,900 contagion counterparty spiral, if we want to continue to 380 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:18,800 tripping on that. I think we're totally down. 381 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,700 But is there anything else? That's kind of been been peeking 382 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:26,200 your interest lately? 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If you're like me and want to 416 00:23:08,808 --> 00:23:11,000 gain a deeper understanding of what's going on within the 417 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,000 Bitcoin market and broader macro environment, you need to 418 00:23:14,008 --> 00:23:15,800 subscribe to bitcoin magazine Pro today. 419 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,600 There's both a free and paid version of this daily 420 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,100 newsletter, where our Market analysts break down, what's 421 00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:24,100 going on in the markets? So you don't have to subscribe 422 00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:26,500 today, a Bitcoin magazine Pro.com. 423 00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:31,700 Maybe many people read it already but I wrote a piece 424 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:33,700 called finding signal in a noisy world. 425 00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:37,100 It's on medium, bunch of people have translated it says, well, 426 00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:40,800 if anyone on the call hasn't read it they should and it's 427 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:46,800 just what the world would look like in in if the base of our 428 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,300 world just that for my money was just information. 429 00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:53,500 What it would look like if that missing for, if that information 430 00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:57,100 was being manipulated, we would all be looking through that same 431 00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:01,400 misinformation compared to, what's happening a bit in 432 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,400 Bitcoin is an alternative system that had to be outside of that 433 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,800 system and Untouchable by that system, not that you wouldn't 434 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,600 expect not that you wouldn't expect every single attack 435 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:17,400 Vector on that new system. Cuz because that system would 436 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,200 be. So it would take so much power 437 00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:23,000 from the people who controlled power today. 438 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,200 You would have to expect everything against that system. 439 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,600 So you really have to understand that system that is its its 440 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,900 core. Why it was outside, why it was 441 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:42,500 decentralized, why it was Secure, why it was unhackable 442 00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:46,100 Untouchable from the existing system and so but what would the 443 00:24:46,108 --> 00:24:49,500 world look like? And then as I started for me and 444 00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:53,600 this is probably if you touch a little bit on ego death Where 445 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,400 would I want to spend my time? But I want to spend my time in 446 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:01,200 the system without which we want to spend most of my time trying 447 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,800 to accumulate enough Capital inside a system whereby, every 448 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,900 single thing I did try and give to to create enough Capital 449 00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:14,400 inside that system made our world worse for all people in 450 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:19,300 the system, or would I move more of my time and resources to the 451 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:24,500 new system that I wanted to see. And so the start of The start of 452 00:25:24,700 --> 00:25:27,100 ego death Capital but it's not just me. 453 00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:32,300 It's a lot of people in and and Bitcoin another because Bitcoin 454 00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:37,900 only VC's is really an idea where that focuses on. 455 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:44,100 I do have I do have say, where I spend my time I control, where I 456 00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:47,800 spend my time, I can spend it with the best entrepreneurs 457 00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:52,000 building, the new peer-to-peer internet, that will support 458 00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:55,800 forum. The backbone of society society 459 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,400 and it'll move us from the system. 460 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,300 We live in now with greater and greater insecurity to a new 461 00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:05,500 system based on truth, hope abundance. 462 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,900 So and then now when you're in that new system, how you're 463 00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:14,300 spending your time with all of those people, but probably many 464 00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:16,500 on this call, you Dylan for sure. 465 00:26:16,900 --> 00:26:20,000 Jeff for sure. We're spending time with a whole 466 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,400 bunch of people that have a different view of the world. 467 00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:25,500 It's based on, it's based on truth. 468 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,700 You build incredible connections and and I can't believe I get to 469 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:34,500 be able to play in this new world in getting to see all of 470 00:26:34,508 --> 00:26:39,200 these entrepreneurs building its early building in this ecosystem 471 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,400 that are going to create incredible value for society. 472 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,800 I like, it's like I can't believe I get to the privilege 473 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,000 of doing that. Will every entrepreneur be 474 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,000 successful? No, will every business be 475 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:50,900 successful. No. 476 00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:55,700 But by doing, Even saving moving there, they're going to just 477 00:26:55,700 --> 00:27:01,100 like when and I remember the first day on the beginning of 478 00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:05,300 the internet or kind of 99 and internet company to go just 479 00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:08,900 balls, got funded for I think it was 25 million dollars on a 480 00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:12,900 napkin and and it's a bad business idea because it was 481 00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:16,500 taking advantage of whole bunch of the hype cycle the internet. 482 00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:18,600 But it didn't change the internet. 483 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:24,000 It all of these ideas are they? Internet stronger and stronger, 484 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,500 and stronger and we use the value created on top of it. 485 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,800 That's reforming that whole value system is going to be 486 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:39,900 reimagined on top of that coin. Stephanie, I think I like, most 487 00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:41,800 of these questions may already know your answer, but, and I 488 00:27:41,808 --> 00:27:44,200 don't even know if you want to go down this route but what do 489 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,000 you say to the to the, you know, inquiring investor or friend or 490 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,000 someone that comes up to you? And says, you know, Jeff I get 491 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,600 your passion about Bitcoins. But what about crypto? 492 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,300 What about etherium, what about, you know, II can't borrow 493 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:02,300 against my Bitcoin on chain. I can't swap, you know, assets. 494 00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:05,700 I can't do all these really cool things is, you know, I want, I 495 00:28:05,708 --> 00:28:08,300 want something that's. It's not a Our client. 496 00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:11,100 How do you, how do you answer that to someone that may not be 497 00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:13,800 in the, in the, you know, weeds with a lot of the technical? 498 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,000 You know, how that's why I wrote for finding signal in a noisy 499 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,300 world because it would give a reference point. 500 00:28:20,300 --> 00:28:22,200 Now, there's lots of great work in this. 501 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,300 If people want to do this, do the work but it would, I wrote 502 00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:27,800 that piece because it would give a reference point. 503 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,100 The people could come back to on on why at a first principles 504 00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:36,100 level and what and why. Why if you were measuring this 505 00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:39,400 as if you were measuring this This instead of a protocol if 506 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,300 you were measuring it as a product that and and Bitcoin. 507 00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:49,400 The layer, one of the protocol was based on decentralization 508 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,000 and security and then by de facto, it couldn't have 509 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,100 scalability built into it. It would leave an opening 510 00:28:57,500 --> 00:29:00,200 especially in a world that was manipulating money. 511 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:05,200 It would leave a hole opening to a whole bunch of other kind of 512 00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:09,000 and I don't accept a con artist. As there's a whole bunch of 513 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,100 entrepreneurs and in in the crypto space that actually 514 00:29:13,100 --> 00:29:16,000 believe in what they're doing. They're just built on top of 515 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,900 foundations that they've built on top of quicksand that have to 516 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:25,000 centralize or B or B and secure. And if you have D Phi, D, 517 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,300 centralized decentralized Finance on top of a centralized 518 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:34,000 blockchain that make any sense to anybody or decentralized 519 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,300 stable coin, you know? Yeah, yeah. 520 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,600 So it did These don't make sense if you just run the logic all 521 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,500 the way through. And the only thing that I've 522 00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:47,400 seen that actually makes sense is Bitcoin and and I'm a 523 00:29:47,408 --> 00:29:49,500 long-term investor. I think about where I'm going to 524 00:29:49,508 --> 00:29:54,500 spend my time over a long period of time and and nothing else 525 00:29:54,500 --> 00:30:01,500 passed that test. But to know to get there, I went 526 00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:05,000 down to the sand and backup on every where would they be? 527 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,500 Is where where, where would this be attacked? 528 00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:11,100 Would it look like and then? And then, but I do also 529 00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:17,100 understand if Bitcoin because protocols Harden over time and, 530 00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:19,700 and you can't build the next layer of the protocol, nor do 531 00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:23,000 you know what's available on the next layer, the protocol until 532 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,900 it's there? So if you had a protocol 533 00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:29,000 hardening over time, like Bitcoin becoming more 534 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,000 decentralized, more secure over time. 535 00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:34,900 And it's sacrificed smart contracts, because that would 536 00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:38,100 build bigger block size, and that would make a great 537 00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:41,600 centralization. It sacrificed scalability and 538 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:46,400 sacrifice speed on on layer 1 or scalability on layer 1, For 539 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,300 decentralization and security then inside that will everybody 540 00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:56,000 was well, that protocol was hardening and people created a 541 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,000 whole bunch of wealth fund on bitcoin. 542 00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:01,400 It would be, it would create a massive opportunity in the 543 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,100 market to say, oh that's old Tech, we have something that's 544 00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:09,600 new, that's way better without understanding the protocols 545 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,300 developed in layers. And so, what's happened is just 546 00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:16,200 a total Natural Market function of product line. 547 00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:20,900 Say no protocol one is decentralized and secure period. 548 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,600 It's it's immune from all, the viruses that come at it because 549 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,800 of that. And and then and then the next 550 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,400 layer opens up and that's what's happening with lightning today. 551 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,800 And next will air and you start to see greater functionality 552 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,700 coming in layers. Love it. 553 00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:43,800 I guess I'll throw you one more question and then we'll turn it 554 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,200 back to Jeff or maybe someone from the audience. 555 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,500 If we get there and I Jeff, I know you're not much of a like 556 00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:52,900 say a traitor and you're more of a long-term investor. 557 00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:56,300 And, and really what this big, one thing I can tell, just from 558 00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:58,200 reading your books. Your blog post talk to you in 559 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,400 person over Twitter is much more than just an investment with 560 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,800 financial upside. It's it's, you know, you're this 561 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,000 heavily involved because and I'm this heavily involved because I 562 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,700 believe it probably has the greatest opportunity. 563 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:13,200 We We have to, to change something with a technological 564 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,800 solution. But with that being said, you 565 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,700 mentioned the fed, the FED policy fed tightening. 566 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,000 We're going through it, you know, kind of on the backs of a 567 00:32:22,008 --> 00:32:23,900 historic tightening cycle. Yeah. 568 00:32:23,900 --> 00:32:26,600 Debt-to-gdp. All of these things are, you 569 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,100 know, from most metrics broadly, the worst ever been ever been 570 00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:33,000 coming off of 10. You 10, 12 years of free money. 571 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,200 How how do you think this whole thing plays out? 572 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,100 And that's a really broad open question, but I think you You 573 00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:41,900 start to see some people say, hey, like soft. 574 00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:44,300 Landing hard Landing. Do you have any bias? 575 00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:49,400 One way or another? He leaves it is chilies but it's 576 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,000 going to be an enormously hard hard Landing. 577 00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:55,700 I think the best way just to frame it for four people that 578 00:32:55,700 --> 00:32:57,700 they can see because they just lived through. 579 00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:03,100 It is what happened in 2020 with the massive stimulus and 580 00:33:03,100 --> 00:33:05,800 printing the money. And when you look at every 581 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,200 commentator, every Economist at the entire system, after the 582 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,400 entire news, everybody who's helped, don't worry about 583 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,500 inflation. There's going to be no 584 00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:17,900 inflation. And then it took quite a while 585 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,500 till people say, it's inflation's going to be 586 00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:23,600 transitory. And then it took along a lot 587 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,100 more that we have a real inflation problem from from that 588 00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:29,300 point. And it's that's the lag time 589 00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:32,700 that I'm talking about. So if the FED started tightening 590 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:38,100 and call it July and and we're just getting into it now, then 591 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:42,900 most of the damn that, it And even touched us yet his not, 592 00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:46,100 it's not okay. And there weren't in there. 593 00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:49,700 Likely goodness continue to tighten and I believe personally 594 00:33:50,100 --> 00:33:56,400 that this is this is actually a China us tightening policy 595 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,200 rather than anything else. So I think they're going to 596 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,200 tighten for a longer and that means the damage the damage is 597 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,100 already baked in is going to blow people away and we haven't 598 00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:09,199 seen most of it yet. We've seen the big beginning of 599 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:11,600 it. The the amount you just think 600 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:17,699 textures I would I would suggest or prediction that the deficit 601 00:34:17,699 --> 00:34:21,300 next year the u.s. is going to be 3 trillion because they're 602 00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:26,000 looking at tax receipts based on the based on the on the printed 603 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,900 money and record tax, receipts falling off a cliff and as all 604 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:36,900 and as their programs needed, as people move to unemployment and 605 00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:41,000 such and such to be able to 22. Everyone with the program's I 606 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,600 think you're going to see a massive divide here. 607 00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:46,800 So just lots of pain, lots of pain coming for the overall 608 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,500 Market. Okay, real Jeff. 609 00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:52,100 Jeff. Before we lose this topic. 610 00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:55,300 Can you can you go a little bit deeper into what you mean by you 611 00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:57,800 think this is a China us tightening policy? 612 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:04,600 Like what do you mean by that? So so today, if and if China, 613 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,800 when trying to stop buying us bonds for effectively, you had 614 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,000 probably the simplest way to say, is you had vendor financing 615 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,300 and both parties were were winning out of that. 616 00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:18,500 And China was winning by low labor rate. 617 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,500 Andre, and and, and, and exports. 618 00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:27,200 And, and keeping interest rates down by funding the US, 619 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,000 government's need to spend and high labor rights. 620 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,700 And so so that was just washing flushing currency around the 621 00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:38,100 world and it was recirculate. And then I think it was 2015 and 622 00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:43,200 a 2014, China stopped buying us bonds and started thinking okay 623 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,400 well we're going to do this game. 624 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,200 Ourselves similar Belgian Road would be a function of that. 625 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:56,900 So You have effectively a currency regime that and the 626 00:35:56,900 --> 00:36:02,800 u.s. that has high labor rate and needing needing all of the 627 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,300 materials and everything that makes up the economy. 628 00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:09,800 Being outsourced to countries all around the world with low 629 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,000 labor rates. And now you have a geopolitical 630 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,800 problem and even the militant military industrial complex, how 631 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,500 do you the chips that go into? To your interior military 632 00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:22,600 injectors, or how do you run that? 633 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:28,200 When most of those Supply chains are Global and you have China? 634 00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:30,900 China, moving into a dominant power. 635 00:36:31,300 --> 00:36:36,500 That's this in a geopolitical risk to the US with, with those, 636 00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:40,500 with all those components and so, so that tightening the, I 637 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:44,800 think the u.s. is going through right now is, is is either you 638 00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:47,800 keep on loosening and you Empower China to keep that game 639 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,100 going. And the Further and further down 640 00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:52,600 that road, what people might have noticed a couple three 641 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,000 weeks ago. Four weeks ago is cutting off, 642 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,400 the chip is essentially saying to China. 643 00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:02,900 If, in chip manufacturing, if you're a US citizen there, we're 644 00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:05,400 going to cut off your uses cents US. 645 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,800 Citizenship, if you remain, there is really a threat to to 646 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,600 China's, to try to China's dominance. 647 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,900 And the more important threat is is this dollar threat. 648 00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:22,100 What? And so u.s. is using this this 649 00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:26,400 to tie think, Titan China's debt collapses in that. 650 00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:30,400 They Sparks a revolution in China, because there is no way 651 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,500 to pay back China's debt, and, and Nu mu, and you try to use 652 00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:37,000 that currency, you try to you, try to kick the can down the 653 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,000 road. You're try to reset it under a 654 00:37:40,008 --> 00:37:42,300 different regime. In fact, one of the different 655 00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:49,400 regimes might be moving into Bitcoin in time I think that's 656 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,300 great hate and try to let me jump in with another one here 657 00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:54,700 just because I'm chomping at the bit to ask this one, you know a 658 00:37:54,707 --> 00:37:58,100 lot of I'll say otherwise intelligent macro economic 659 00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:01,300 thinkers when they talk about Bitcoin specifically that 660 00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:04,800 they'll kind of give it, you know, Kudos and say you know it 661 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,700 could possibly make a nice World Reserve asset. 662 00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:12,300 Like one of many type things but they don't think it could become 663 00:38:12,300 --> 00:38:15,100 the world Reserve currency and one of the reason is because 664 00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:19,600 they say economic growth isn't possible without To a currency 665 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,100 that expands like the US dollar does love to get your take on 666 00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:26,000 that and it maybe you can talk about how velocity is built into 667 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,900 Bitcoin itself. Yeah. 668 00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:31,200 And I think that's actually the that comes from the from an idea 669 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,300 of gold as backing currencies and having to have an inflation 670 00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:37,500 rate and really the for needing inflation rate in the credit 671 00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:39,900 system to be able to drive velocity. 672 00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:43,600 And I think that's where the velocity and Bitcoin in the 673 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,200 network. Has unlimited velocity, you can 674 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,500 trade as you know, Jeff you can trade unless Lightning Network, 675 00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:54,300 I can pass my money anywhere in the world right now outside of 676 00:38:54,300 --> 00:38:56,700 the existing system. And it could be back at MIT 677 00:38:56,700 --> 00:39:00,700 could transfer 40 times in 10 minutes and be back at me. 678 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,300 So you don't have an inherent. You don't have this idea that 679 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:11,600 the only way to gain velocity is by increasing debt and pushing 680 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,200 more debt. So people spend more, which is 681 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,600 exactly inverse of what the so it's the way the system. 682 00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:22,300 System and that misallocation of capital eventually actually 683 00:39:22,300 --> 00:39:26,600 destroys velocity because per destroys economies because of 684 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,800 the mislabeled location of capital and Bitcoin operates. 685 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:34,500 Exactly opposite to that where the velocity we can trade with 686 00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:39,000 anybody anywhere in the world, and money is really that that 687 00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:44,500 that thing that we use to trade. Then you could imagine faster 688 00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:48,500 productivity on a Bitcoin standard but that productivity, 689 00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:50,800 and this is where it gets complicated or hard to 690 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,100 understand from the existing system, where a lot of people 691 00:39:53,100 --> 00:39:57,500 stuck in that existing system is they've never seen a system like 692 00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:02,700 this, where that productivity would flow and lower prices to 693 00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:05,800 the population. That's actually why Bitcoin if 694 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,800 when measured against everything else, will everything else will 695 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:18,100 fall in Bitcoin for Ever. And and one step up their world 696 00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:21,500 requires to trade to trade all around the world. 697 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:29,200 The world route requires a neutral Reserve currency I love 698 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,000 that and that's kind of how I respond to people who, you know, 699 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,800 if they sort of look back with resentment and say that they're 700 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,300 too late to bitcoin, I many people are saying that now right 701 00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:39,500 with this bear Market in these in these lower prices. 702 00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:42,900 But you know what, I like to tell people is your honestly, 703 00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:46,400 never too late to bitcoin. It's going to keep growing 704 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,100 forever, Michael Sailors, famous quote on that it's going up 705 00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:51,300 forever. Laura and it truly is and that's 706 00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:53,600 just sort of an amazing feature of Bitcoin. 707 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,100 And a feature of it being perfectly scarce is that it's 708 00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:59,500 just going to Forever go up in value Being that everything 709 00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:01,900 against the Bitcoin is going to be going down in midlife, will 710 00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:03,600 get cheaper the longer we hold Bitcoin. 711 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,200 Go ahead. Yeah, no, no, I agree. 712 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,400 And I think they when I when I think about this asset I think 713 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,100 about or not. So when I think about what 714 00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:15,700 Bitcoin is every single thing I've been talking about for 715 00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:19,500 years years and years and years. The hypothesis is stronger today 716 00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:22,300 than it was before. And and the price when measured 717 00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:27,000 in u.s. dollars is down. Now, if you had that trade, if 718 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,100 it was a trade and the hypothesis was getting stronger 719 00:41:30,100 --> 00:41:34,500 and stronger all the time without without a break in it. 720 00:41:35,900 --> 00:41:38,700 Wouldn't that be the base best asymmetric trade on the right in 721 00:41:38,700 --> 00:41:44,700 your life? The so when and I costly try to 722 00:41:44,700 --> 00:41:49,700 invalidate that hypothesis, I look for it where I could be 723 00:41:49,700 --> 00:41:56,600 wrong and I listen actively to to to others, or try to attack 724 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:01,000 that, but I still have not seen a reasonable attack of that 725 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,800 hypothesis. At least one that I see see is 726 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,300 credible. So, His is mad, Odell would say, 727 00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:16,700 stay humble and stacks hats. Love it. 728 00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:19,300 I don't have any real questions on the top of my mind. 729 00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:21,200 Maybe you want to bring anyone up or Jeff? 730 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,300 I don't know if you have anything else, or sure? 731 00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:25,300 Yeah, maybe it is we're bringing other people up Jeff. 732 00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:27,900 Another, another question I had for you, you know you're doing 733 00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:30,900 this this investing vehicle with ego death Capital which is 734 00:42:30,900 --> 00:42:33,500 Awesome by the way. And I'm all about that too. 735 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,100 So kind of a practical nuts and bolt question. 736 00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:39,100 Do you think that and from an investing standpoint? 737 00:42:39,100 --> 00:42:42,900 Do you think that these investments in these kind of, 738 00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:46,000 you know, Bitcoin related Oin infrastructure Venture Capital 739 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,800 players will actually outperformed Bitcoin over the 740 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,600 long run, or do you do this more as just to help support the 741 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,200 infrastructure itself? No, I think I think I think it's 742 00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,200 it's something that could outperform Bitcoin over the 743 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:00,700 time. It's like asking if you're 744 00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:02,600 investing in a normal world, could you? 745 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,600 Oh perform could yo, perform the currency or an interest rate in? 746 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,600 In this know, I certainly think you, you have to choose, you 747 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,200 have to Choose Wisely and you have to also realize in this is 748 00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:17,800 This is this hard thing, even for me, get your head around, 749 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,400 you have to realize that by very nature that the companies that 750 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,400 are creating value and in Bitcoin will keep driving prices 751 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,700 down lower and lower for society, and we'll have to 752 00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:32,500 continually to innovate. So, yes, they're going to create 753 00:43:32,500 --> 00:43:35,900 actually going to create kind of more Bitcoin on their balance 754 00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:40,000 sheets by doing so over time, but that won't protect protect 755 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,800 them from the free market and the free market will attack 756 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,300 those companies to and it means they're going to have to move to 757 00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:49,000 the next thing and provide more value is that is prices are 758 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,300 coming down. So it looks a little different 759 00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:57,000 than then our existing world where he would create a huge 760 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:02,000 Network Network Power Monopoly, and you would use existing the 761 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,700 existing Financial system to create a monopoly that you kind 762 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:07,600 of rent. You could rent seek forever. 763 00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:11,800 It doesn't enter investing in this set in space. 764 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,400 Won't look like that. It look like free market. 765 00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:18,600 Investing, but I absolutely think that you we can 766 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,600 outperform. I love it. 767 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,800 That's a great answer. And hey, let me let me shift 768 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,500 gears for a minute while we're waiting. 769 00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:28,700 By the way, if anybody in the audience wants to come on up, 770 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,500 feel free. We have Jeff for about 13 more 771 00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:33,000 minutes or so. So if you want to ask any 772 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,100 questions, a come on up. So let's switch gears a little 773 00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:37,000 bit, Jeff you wrote a fantastic book. 774 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,800 That basically everybody knows. That's your very well known for 775 00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,900 this book, called the price of Tomorrow is one of the greatest 776 00:44:42,900 --> 00:44:45,100 books I've ever read. So thanks for writing that, by 777 00:44:45,100 --> 00:44:46,900 the way for you. So, so we're moving. 778 00:44:46,900 --> 00:44:49,900 Now into an age of we're seeing High inflation, right? 779 00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:51,900 We're seeing kind of peak, I would say. 780 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,700 Pika centralization and we're moving more towards 781 00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:58,400 decentralization which kind of acts as an inflationary Force I 782 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,400 think. Do you think that the forces 783 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,600 that we're seeing? Now these inflationary forces 784 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,100 that have popped up in the last couple of years? 785 00:45:05,300 --> 00:45:08,100 Are they temporary and do you think that the effects of 786 00:45:08,100 --> 00:45:11,900 Knology the deflationary effects of Technology will overpower 787 00:45:11,900 --> 00:45:14,000 these in the long run? Just love to hear your thoughts 788 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,500 on that Jeff? That's a great question. 789 00:45:15,500 --> 00:45:18,100 I get it. I get asked all the time and I 790 00:45:18,107 --> 00:45:21,200 just kind of come back to First principles and just say this 791 00:45:21,300 --> 00:45:27,600 just ask Anybody this if we, if we are both the labor in all the 792 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,900 things that we buy and the things we buy and we live in a 793 00:45:31,908 --> 00:45:34,900 global Community where we're trying to find cheaper labor, 794 00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:40,000 how can labor go up and the things we buy, one it come down. 795 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,700 We're the same person like everything we are the exact same 796 00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:47,000 person. And so it's that connection that 797 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,200 we believe that all our houses can go up forever in our labor, 798 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,300 can go up forever, where it's Actually going down in real 799 00:45:53,300 --> 00:45:58,200 terms because of inflation and on the other side of the other 800 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,300 side of the equation we're constantly looking for more 801 00:46:00,300 --> 00:46:03,700 value Bitcoin. Connects that in a way that 802 00:46:03,700 --> 00:46:07,900 nothing else could because because money money is 803 00:46:07,900 --> 00:46:10,600 constantly being. If you could manipulate a money 804 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,900 and for your personal gain human history says you will, We Will 805 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,100 and Bitcoins outside of that system. 806 00:46:17,100 --> 00:46:21,800 So what it does is everything that we create is going to fall, 807 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,800 Price and it's going to keep on falling in price and back to 808 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,100 your back to your back at least measured in Bitcoin and back to 809 00:46:30,100 --> 00:46:33,600 that. Simple way I try to do that as 810 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,900 does technology reduced prices. Yes know, there's been some 811 00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:41,700 people say, well, it doesn't TVs that doesn't computers and does 812 00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:44,400 my phone, I get more value in my phone, but it doesn't 813 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:49,300 everywhere. And then I then say why, because 814 00:46:49,300 --> 00:46:52,700 there's technology and energy, we More energy. 815 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,200 We do fracking today. Wait, there's more solar energy 816 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,800 why? And what what it turns out to is 817 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,800 some Industries are moving faster with technology and 818 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:05,800 they're overcoming that inflation, right? 819 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,000 But the only reason for inflation, the only reason on 820 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,200 the over a longer term time frame is because we allow 821 00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,100 manipulation money. Otherwise prices would the 822 00:47:15,100 --> 00:47:17,500 natural free market is to freshener period. 823 00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:21,400 I love it. That's an awesome answer. 824 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,800 I'd love to keep going on that, but we got several people up 825 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,200 here. Now, for questions, Dallas, I 826 00:47:25,207 --> 00:47:27,000 think you are first. I, what's going on, Dallas? 827 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:29,800 What's going on? Thank you guys for having me. 828 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,200 I'm sorry, I missed the beginning of this. 829 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,900 I don't want to ask anything that's done, didn't but Jeff of 830 00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:35,500 be curious. Like, you know, I know Dylan's a 831 00:47:35,500 --> 00:47:37,300 good guy to ask about these kind of things as well. 832 00:47:37,300 --> 00:47:41,500 But do you guys, do you think that there are like any massive 833 00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:44,800 hurdles and or I don't know, let's just say points of 834 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,700 Leverage that the people who benefit the most from the 835 00:47:47,707 --> 00:47:51,300 existing system sort of have the Flex, the kind of delay us from 836 00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:55,000 getting to the promised land and like, if so, like, what are 837 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,600 those things? And how do you think, you know, 838 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,800 we can, we can be proactive and like combating, those things. 839 00:48:01,100 --> 00:48:05,900 It's it's misinformation and misinformation manipulation and 840 00:48:05,900 --> 00:48:07,700 coercion is really what they have. 841 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,700 And when you say they remember, we are there if if if you're in 842 00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:17,000 the existing system racing hard to try to create more money or 843 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,700 taking Hannah from then you're actually A part of the system 844 00:48:20,700 --> 00:48:23,000 that enables it makes it stronger and stronger, and 845 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:24,700 stronger. If you're marching against that 846 00:48:24,700 --> 00:48:29,200 existing system on the left or right, you're actually making 847 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,600 that system stronger. So it went you could their whole 848 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,400 bunch of conspiracy theories and such on FTX. 849 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:41,300 And, and when you look at it on the face of it, that you have 850 00:48:41,300 --> 00:48:44,600 this complete fraudster, speaking at events, is 851 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,900 celebrated by traditional media. And, and I understand totally 852 00:48:48,900 --> 00:48:53,900 why That would that would look like a conspiracy theory but and 853 00:48:53,900 --> 00:48:58,100 it might be but but everyone in the system trying to make enough 854 00:48:58,100 --> 00:49:01,800 money to get out of the system, is a part of making that system 855 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,100 stronger. And and so that RIT that risk is 856 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,400 the risk. In the end is is just coercion. 857 00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:12,900 It's just I lock you to because I have to remove your individual 858 00:49:12,900 --> 00:49:17,300 rights and freedoms to get you to stay in a system that's based 859 00:49:17,300 --> 00:49:23,000 on manipulation and coercion. And so I have to and and as I 860 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:29,200 centralized that system into a world government type of system 861 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,900 or a w FV F type of system, I have to remove more of your 862 00:49:33,900 --> 00:49:37,000 rights to, to predict everything. 863 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,400 Everybody wants with my power that I gained from the 864 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,100 manipulation of money and living standards have to go down in 865 00:49:44,100 --> 00:49:47,600 that world. I think you see Society, I think 866 00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:51,000 you see Society Revolt long. Before it was here, I think you 867 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,100 see what your is happening in China right now long before that 868 00:49:54,100 --> 00:50:00,100 happens but the question is do on bit on bitcoin. 869 00:50:00,500 --> 00:50:04,500 Wait, when you realize all you have to do is is a nonviolent 870 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,100 protest and you walk to the other side. 871 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,100 You spend more of your time in that world. 872 00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:11,700 You literally create the world. You want to see in that pit 873 00:50:11,700 --> 00:50:12,900 world. I think that's what we're up 874 00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:16,600 against. I love it. 875 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,200 That's great. By the way, quick shout out to 876 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,000 Kim clijsters in the audience. Big fan. 877 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,900 Hey out. See proud psycho. 878 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,400 You have a question or comment for Jeff. 879 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,600 You had never been a huge fan, Jeff. 880 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,000 So I just wanted to kind of chimed in and just look. 881 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,800 Thanks, yeah. See how much, you know, and I 882 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,900 suspect it's going to be happening to you more and more 883 00:50:32,900 --> 00:50:35,600 when I've listened to. So, listen to you so much. 884 00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,300 I feel like you're a friend, you're hearing my voice for the 885 00:50:38,308 --> 00:50:40,600 first time. So I just wanted to again, 886 00:50:40,700 --> 00:50:44,100 massive being and you were instrumental in me. 887 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,100 And conviction. I guess I would like to ask is, 888 00:50:47,300 --> 00:50:50,800 I mean, in terms of being, like, in the Bitcoin Community, sort 889 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,700 of the designated adult. I don't know if anyone's use 890 00:50:53,700 --> 00:50:55,900 that language about you, but that's the way it seems to me. 891 00:50:55,900 --> 00:50:59,300 Always level-headed, always balanced, always reasons, I 892 00:50:59,300 --> 00:51:02,200 guess my success rate in Orange pilling. 893 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,200 And this, I guess is more of like a striking. 894 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,400 A personal note here with your friends and family and stuff. 895 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,400 What is your orange going ratio? If you want to Riff on that. 896 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,000 I would love to hear it, but don't feel like you have to So 897 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,900 it's probably the same as all of you. 898 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:22,800 The it's now that I probably virtually all of my friends 899 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,100 eventually buy some and they start to understand it but it is 900 00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:29,900 it's been it's been way more painful painful than I would 901 00:51:29,900 --> 00:51:33,700 have thought it would be because it's it's when you living in the 902 00:51:33,700 --> 00:51:35,700 new system you understand what that looks like. 903 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,500 You think why can't everybody else see this? 904 00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:43,700 Why can't what these things they're saying are built on? 905 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,700 Built on built on quicksand. It just keeps on going to eat 906 00:51:47,700 --> 00:51:49,400 like. Have you ever heard Turtles all 907 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,000 the way down? Well, why does that exist? 908 00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:53,900 Because they're worth is on a turtle. 909 00:51:54,100 --> 00:51:56,800 Why does the turtle and spin too? 910 00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,600 Because there's Turtle under the throw. 911 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,800 And so these the things that are in their belief structure that 912 00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:08,300 I've found the exact same thing. When I say meet people where 913 00:52:08,300 --> 00:52:14,300 they are is because of a realization, most people when In 914 00:52:14,308 --> 00:52:16,100 Europe when you're in Bitcoin is deep. 915 00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:21,500 Is you are you think wow this is that the entire world built on a 916 00:52:21,508 --> 00:52:25,000 lie and so much power. And any think that there's these 917 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,900 giant coordinated attacks by in everybody, in the existing 918 00:52:28,900 --> 00:52:31,800 system is part of it? And when you're talking to most 919 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,300 people, you realize, if you say that you push them further away 920 00:52:36,300 --> 00:52:40,400 from Bitcoin and well that might be true, I suspect it's more 921 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,100 just it's just more function of hints. 922 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,500 Santa's incentives, rule the world rule the world and we have 923 00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:50,700 incentives that are based on theft and the world. 924 00:52:54,500 --> 00:52:56,300 And hey I'll sell ten before we get to. 925 00:52:56,300 --> 00:52:58,900 You will have you kind of end up with our last question Dylan. 926 00:52:58,900 --> 00:53:02,200 I'm just wondering if you wouldn't mind jumping into real 927 00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,000 quick. What you guys are working on us 928 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,700 when I put people in the audience and Dylan and damn rule 929 00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:09,800 who's not here today, they do an incredible job with some called 930 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,700 Bitcoin magazine Pro, they're basically on The Cutting Edge of 931 00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:15,600 just some fantastic analysis. Both kind of in the macro 932 00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,000 markets as well as all across the Bitcoin space. 933 00:53:18,700 --> 00:53:21,500 You know, talking about Bitcoin and crypto exchanges, Bitcoin 934 00:53:21,500 --> 00:53:24,200 Miners and everything in between We need things to avoid, things 935 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,000 to be careful of and and, and then just about the great truths 936 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,000 of Bitcoin Dylan. What are you and Sam? 937 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,600 Working on this week. Anything exciting on your plate. 938 00:53:32,100 --> 00:53:34,200 Yeah, we're just taking a look at some of the, some of the 939 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,500 latest stuff happening with miners, would kind of see 940 00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:39,400 somewhat of a turnover and hash rate and also kind of doing it 941 00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:43,400 in depth analysis. Post-mortem on the, the kind of 942 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,000 the crypto credit bubble. We've talked about it, a bunch 943 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,500 but, you know, going in and looking at at defy yields now, 944 00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,500 defy, right decentralised finance that offer you one. 945 00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:56,000 Sent yields while, you know, the short duration, treasuries are 946 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,500 for you for four and a half percent is certainly quite the 947 00:53:58,500 --> 00:54:00,300 dichotomy from from 24 months ago. 948 00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:02,800 So we're writing about that a little bit today and you know, 949 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:05,400 have a have a free version of so everyone should check it out. 950 00:54:06,100 --> 00:54:08,900 Ya could recommend it more you guys for you if you're in the 951 00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:11,100 audience and you're not subscribed, it's free. 952 00:54:11,100 --> 00:54:14,100 We do have a paid thing too but the free subscription is 953 00:54:14,100 --> 00:54:16,800 fantastic and you'll get some of the greatest education out 954 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:18,900 there, I think, on Bitcoin, in the Bitcoin space. 955 00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:22,200 So just a little fill their last question or comment from El salt 956 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:23,400 and for Jeff. What's going on? 957 00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:26,400 Yeah, thanks. I guess just want to sort of 958 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,000 chime and very quickly in the net ask, Jeff to questions. 959 00:54:30,500 --> 00:54:33,700 The first one being Jeff. How do you see coin state, 960 00:54:33,700 --> 00:54:35,700 adoption? Moving forward. 961 00:54:35,700 --> 00:54:39,500 Specifically talking about sanctioned countries, right? 962 00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:44,700 And I asked this somebody who comes from Venezuela and saw the 963 00:54:44,700 --> 00:54:49,300 Venezuelan government leveraging Bitcoin mining, and creating 964 00:54:49,300 --> 00:54:52,600 their own like centralized exchanges in the country. 965 00:54:52,700 --> 00:54:57,900 He to wash some of their some of their money and revenues right 966 00:54:57,900 --> 00:55:02,000 through Bitcoin excetera. So how yeah, I think that's 967 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:03,800 question. Number one, that question 968 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:07,200 probably just simply the technology that the technology 969 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:11,000 that empowers people typically starts from the bottom up from 970 00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,400 the people most disadvantaged from a from an existing set of 971 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,700 from the existing Monopoly. And just if you look at Bitcoin 972 00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:20,700 through that, through that lens, which I think you're going to 973 00:55:20,700 --> 00:55:25,900 see is is An awfully of money is going to be disrupted by by the 974 00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:28,400 people that are furthest away from that first, people 975 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,400 individual people, and then some of the Nations that are hurt the 976 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,300 most from the Monopoly of money today, protecting the court. 977 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,600 So just think about the weather. U.s. does why inflation hasn't 978 00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,400 gone up a long time ago? Is because what the US does is 979 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:49,800 it needs that periphery Africa, Africa, South America for cheap 980 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,500 Goods, to be able to keep inflation down it. 981 00:55:52,700 --> 00:55:54,700 Needs. So, that wage deflation has to 982 00:55:54,700 --> 00:55:59,300 existence elsewhere or in China for it to keep inflation down. 983 00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:02,900 So that transfer is so, in other words to protect its core and 984 00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:06,500 now that core is getting smaller and that's happening all around 985 00:56:06,500 --> 00:56:11,000 the world and including disease, us protect Japan and Europe or 986 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,800 to let those fail to protect the core, that's what you're saying 987 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,100 today. Whereas the technology is 988 00:56:18,100 --> 00:56:22,600 neutral and that technology is out, it produces better off. 989 00:56:22,700 --> 00:56:26,900 Effect. Just like and you can't stop a 990 00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:31,500 technology like this from being used by people that are farthest 991 00:56:31,500 --> 00:56:35,300 away and that and every time every user of that whether it's 992 00:56:35,300 --> 00:56:38,900 a country or an individual user is making that Network stronger 993 00:56:38,900 --> 00:56:41,100 for all participants in that Network. 994 00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:45,800 So I suspect eventually maybe before too long u.s. understands 995 00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,200 that power and that and Embraces it but it doesn't matter. 996 00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:55,400 It's going to happen anyways. I think I absolutely follow and 997 00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,700 just for context for everybody in the audience it's Jeff is 998 00:56:58,700 --> 00:57:02,700 absolutely right because like couple of years ago when before 999 00:57:02,700 --> 00:57:06,400 the government's in Venezuela I started getting into Bitcoin 1000 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,300 because they were essentially forced to losing access to the 1001 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,700 global banking system, right? And Global Financial system was 1002 00:57:13,700 --> 00:57:16,500 your sanctioned. It was a goal that what it 1003 00:57:16,500 --> 00:57:20,300 called the gold and Bitcoin H in Venezuela so everybody mine 1004 00:57:20,300 --> 00:57:22,500 Bitcoin. To their microwave. 1005 00:57:22,500 --> 00:57:25,000 If your cousin was mining Bitcoin, you started doing the 1006 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,500 same for you and your mom and everybody after you discovered, 1007 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,600 after you got orange pill basically right. 1008 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,000 But but once the government started getting its finger and 1009 00:57:34,100 --> 00:57:38,700 into Bitcoin, that's one the Crackdown started, right? 1010 00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:43,300 So military, confiscating mining machines, the government running 1011 00:57:43,300 --> 00:57:45,900 now, the biggest mining operations in the country me and 1012 00:57:45,900 --> 00:57:47,700 a couple of friends back in 2016. 1013 00:57:47,700 --> 00:57:51,100 We have to sell the exchange trading and John. 1014 00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,800 We were building for ourselves to the government whether we'd 1015 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,700 like that are not right? And for peanuts. 1016 00:57:55,700 --> 00:57:59,900 So it's interesting to see how this authoritarian regimes 1017 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:04,000 initially of their forced into the camp of having to support 1018 00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:05,900 it. And now what you see in 1019 00:58:05,900 --> 00:58:09,400 Minnesota is the government, trying to take that back, right? 1020 00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:14,000 So like trying to trying to find people if they're using 1021 00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,500 Financial pain, digital payments, right? 1022 00:58:16,500 --> 00:58:19,400 So like zel payments. It's banned in the country. 1023 00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,600 If you do that they close Your shop and stuff like that. 1024 00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,000 So yeah. I think an old ghost. 1025 00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,100 Yeah. And and and friend of you but if 1026 00:58:27,100 --> 00:58:29,000 you just keep on going where you went, that's why. 1027 00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,500 So you could, you could either centralize everything in very 1028 00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:35,500 few hands when the government control at through coercion and 1029 00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:39,500 force and your economy will suffer because the free market 1030 00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:42,200 is much more powerful and delivering value and higher 1031 00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,900 living standards or you could embrace it. 1032 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,700 But what I just said there is really critical in, also a world 1033 00:58:49,700 --> 00:58:53,900 that's going to find Governments on different sides of that coin. 1034 00:58:54,500 --> 00:58:56,600 And so, what you need flexibility, and the one thing 1035 00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,800 that get Bitcoin also gives you as flexibility, you can, just if 1036 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,300 you can remember 12 words, you can get on the plane anywhere in 1037 00:59:02,300 --> 00:59:05,100 the world and that flexibility to go wherever you want. 1038 00:59:05,100 --> 00:59:07,900 And there's going to be a lot of countries, they're going to want 1039 00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:11,500 you. Stay chess. 1040 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:16,100 Love it. And it just a respect Jeff's 1041 00:59:16,100 --> 00:59:17,400 time. I think we should wrap it up 1042 00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:18,800 here, Jeff. If you could just give us a 1043 00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:21,900 final message here from where people can reach out to him and 1044 00:59:21,900 --> 00:59:24,300 Me, Maybe any projects that you're working on or anything. 1045 00:59:24,300 --> 00:59:26,900 I know a lot of people in the audience here are huge fans of 1046 00:59:26,900 --> 00:59:28,600 your work. So what are you working on and 1047 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,400 where can people find you? So I would have said, just find 1048 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,400 me on Twitter at Jeff Booth but if you look at the method like, 1049 00:59:34,900 --> 00:59:38,300 oh my God, the amount of chaos and Twitter these days. 1050 00:59:38,300 --> 00:59:42,600 I'd like the I can't read the tweets or so much spam the so 1051 00:59:43,300 --> 00:59:46,500 but Her is probably best or or ego death. 1052 00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:49,500 Capital for somebody wanted to find me on a you go to Catholic, 1053 00:59:49,500 --> 00:59:54,000 send me a note there. That's awesome. 1054 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:55,500 Thanks so much Jeff for your time. 1055 00:59:55,500 --> 00:59:58,400 We really appreciate it. It's fun to have you as a friend 1056 00:59:58,500 --> 00:59:59,700 friend of our show. Dylan. 1057 00:59:59,700 --> 01:00:01,700 Thanks for coming up and Chris. Thanks for hosting. 1058 01:00:01,700 --> 01:00:04,400 So all the listeners thanks for hanging with us for this last 1059 01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:05,800 hour. Please check out Bitcoin 1060 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,000 magazine Pro. The good work that Sam and 1061 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,300 Dillon are doing there. And please also check out what 1062 01:00:10,300 --> 01:00:12,800 Jeff is doing both his book. If you haven't read the price of 1063 01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,400 tomorrow I couldn't recommend it more highly and check out what 1064 01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,000 he's doing at. You go deaf Capital to. 1065 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,200 So thanks all you guys and we'll be back on Thursday with 1066 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,600 American hot also. So don't miss out on that one. 1067 01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:24,600 Take it easy, everybody. Thanks guys. 1068 01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,800 Thanks everyone for joining us. Make sure to also get your 1069 01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,200 tickets to hang out with us in Miami from May 18th through the 1070 01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:35,100 20th, you can use code Satoshi to get 10% off your tickets. 1071 01:00:35,300 --> 01:00:39,300 You go to be don t, see forward slash conference and click on 1072 01:00:39,300 --> 01:00:42,600 B23R Bitcoin 2023. We hope to see you there to 1073 01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,200 enjoy the Bitcoin winter. Hopefully we'll be going on the 1074 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,700 next Bull Run then. So thanks everyone for joining 1075 01:00:47,700 --> 01:01:00,200 us and we will catch you later. Hey guys, this is Q from Bitcoin 1076 01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,000 magazine Live. Come celebrate Bitcoin, winter 1077 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,900 in Miami at Bitcoin 2023. 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