You guys for sticking around through that commercial break.
We are now joined by the CEOs of Bolt and wire Yanni and maju.
How are you guys doing today? Fantastic?
Thank you for having us Q. Yeah, fired up.
Thank you. Awesome.
Well, why don't we just Dive Right into things.
There was a big announcement about a month ago between your
two companies. I'll let you guys sort of share
those details with everyone. Yeah, so bolt.
We are a one-click checkout company for all of Commerce and
we have been looking at ways to expand into in the crypto and
and we started talking to other different companies and we ran
the wire and we found that wire is the best company that's
aligned with us both from a strategy perspective and
cultural perspective and we continue that conversation and
sign the definitive agreement for merger.
Recently announced that Gordon conference recently, Johnny.
Go ahead. Yeah.
Absolutely. We're really excited.
So yeah, we announced a definitive agreement to merge
into bolt, you know, wire for just for those that don't know,
we've been around since 2012 started in the crypto ecosystem
to help people buy things using the Bitcoin.
And over the years. We realize that it's really,
really difficult to, you know, build applications and in the
crypto space, so we ended up spending the past like eight,
nine years, really building an infrastructure.
Sure, it'd make it easy for people to build into crypto and
when bolt approached us last year and we working more with
bulk. We, you know, it came.
We came to the realization that there's nothing better out there
to get him Bitcoin into the hands of billions of people,
then really partnering with like one of the largest payment
companies in the world. So we're really excited that
we're taking a step forward and getting it in the hands of
billions of people also. And so will the team of why are
we staying on to help that transition or walk us through a
little bit of how this murder? Shape up for the two companies.
Yeah, so bolt provide one-click checkout for all margin.
So we are one of them decentralized wires.
And we make sure that the power of one-click checkout can be
achieved for merchants without having to stay in any large one
ecosystem. Like you can stay in Amazon
Shopify, you can get some of those features, but it's not
available for anyone else. So we build the biggest Shopper
accounts. Work that's available for
everyone across the merchants, irrespective of whatever
platforms they were. So destabilization is the key
aspect for us and so crypto and Bitcoin comes play right into
that and that mission of decentralization and bringing
all the different options and bring taking out of some of the
larger bigger entities and putting it into the pot, about
putting the power into. The common people is kind of our
mission. So with the wire will continue
that mission. Our mission is very aligned In
crypto and Bitcoin to everyone. Bring it to the masses.
So the way we are going to operate is Bolt, has the Shopper
accounts Network. So we have tens of millions of
Shoppers all their payment information and all their
shopping information. We also have a fraud system that
make sure that all the transactions are proper and it's
one of the most advanced part system and the industry.
And so we are bringing that those two their Shopper
accounts. Network with tens of millions of
Shoppers and they Advanced power of the show are the the fraud
system and connect that with the wires crypto infrastructure.
So with that we will be able to bring one click crypto available
for you and also for Shoppers want to pay on Merchants with
Bitcoin. They can do that with one click
or Shoppers want to buy things on metaverse.
We can take out all the friction and make it happening with the
Click the way we are going to organize, this.
Yanni is going to be continued to lead the charge of it.
He's going to be the chief crypto officer.
We think that will be there that the title may be the first title
that will be used by lot of companies as we go forward.
And so any will continue to lead the the mission and Trotter just
like he's doing with wire right now and you go ahead.
Yeah. I think you I think you summed
it up perfectly. So yeah, we're back to that.
It's like yeah, we're still Be aligning building our critical
infrastructure building our Bitcoin infrastructure and still
providing an on ramp into Bitcoin.
Right? And this will still have like
some of the teams will get merged in but like will be
Standalone just building together with bulb module.
Would you mind maybe sharing a little bit of some of the client
you guys are already have are working with just, so our
customer, our audience can get a better sense of where they're
actually going to be interacting with this technology.
Yeah, so today mold is Helping largely with online Commerce.
So, we have a variety of customers all the way from
really small customers to really large Enterprises.
So, we recently signed Fanatics as one of the largest and
fastest growing Commerce company.
They are picking us for powering their one-click.
Checkout experience on all their platform across the board.
To we have merchants in across various categories.
We have Merchants. Like let's say, it like patio
furniture. It's just like Bollywood or or
they do barbecue like outdoor systems like solo stuff.
We have apparel industry. Lucky Jeans Forever 21, we have
we have a very broad spectrum of merchants.
So anyone selling online, we will remove the friction from
the process. So that anything people, our
vision is that people should be able to go to any website that
sell anything and can buy with one.
Like, even though they have never been on that site ever
before and how will Merchants be able to opt into this?
Will it be just like as they're setting up just like checking a
box or what sort of get set up on the back end for them to
receive payments in Bitcoin. Yeah, so the world powers that
take over the check out for a merchant and that includes
managing their ship an option as well as payments bolted a
integrates with all payment options.
Like we connect with all different credit cards.
Card payment processors. We connect with all the
alternate payment options with wire.
We are going to be connecting with the crypto and Bitcoin.
So for merchants what we have, what we have become is a single
window into the payments world. So historically, Merchants have
to build whenever they want to add a payment processor.
They have to build a connection for the payment processor and
switching from One Premium processor to another payment.
Processor is a big challenge, for them, whatever they want to
add an alternate payment. Whether that's an Apple pay or
Google pay, that's an extra work for them.
What both has done is we pre built all those Integrations?
We can are connected with all the payment process of my
payments and now, with Bitcoin and all the crypto
infrastructure. We are rebuilding all that
connections and for merchants. Now, we use bold, they can turn
on all these payment option. As a configuration.
They don't need to write. A single line of code.
There are native that I gets more.
We made it into a configuration so they just go there.
Configuration and enable that? Okay.
I want to enable that's a Bitcoin payment and they just
check that box. And now peep they can take
accept Bitcoin as well as consumer.
The Shoppers can pay with Bitcoin just with one click.
I think that's like the guy gets like, very understated, like,
how massive this is going to be some of the largest Brands
overnight will be able to accept Bitcoin on the websites and opal
bowl of being one of the largest Bitcoin payment processors in
the space. Overnight.
So we're really excited to get this out.
We're working to get, obviously we're working together and
getting that feature out. But like some of the biggest
brands, in the space, overnight will be able to accept crypto or
pick one specifically, which is going to be huge.
I'm curious how. So if I'm understanding this
correctly, not only will Merchants be able to interact
with customers and accept payments in Bitcoin, but like,
their suppliers, the manufacturers, or they're
shipping bills. Most can also get handled as
such correct. Well, it's mainly.
Only our product is mainly designed for consumer buying
from a merchant sites. So we have like 800 plus
Merchants now that use bold, and we have mentioned, like around
10 million, plus Shoppers that already have accounts with us.
So what we are enabling, is those millions of Shoppers to
buy from any of the large group of merchants.
With the power of one click. Now with Bitcoin is about a one
click - Bitcoin with one click. We don't support anything beyond
that behind the scenes for merchants with their suppliers.
It's more that interaction between the actual consumer and
the merchant. And you only talk to me a little
bit about where this transaction is happening on within the
Bitcoin ecosystem resistant, layer 1 or above it on the
lightning. Networking layer 2.
Yeah, so we're working right now with light me without
networking. We're going to be releasing some
apis to build easier into the lightning Network, which would
be huge right now. So, the way that's going to work
is that we're simply the there's a multi-state face just for
this. Right?
So first phase is actually getting an on-ramp product.
So we have one of the largest on ramps on the coin on ramps, in
the space where you can use a credit card debit card, can be
able to order it directly into Bitcoin and different platforms
and we make it super easy for applications.
All of us pays to be Able to have his like on-ramp
functionality. And what we're going to do is
we're going to you know, both really perfected that in
e-commerce. They probably have the best
shopping experience. So if you go on like Forever 21
and lucky Brands and Tyler's and other merchants of the space,
you can literally use one. Click save your payment
information and then just start buying immediately.
So the first phase that we're going to do is we're bringing
this one. Click functionality to bitcoin.
So we're going to make it super easy for developers to have
kindly Conrad. Providing this like incredible
experience on rep directing two platforms.
The second, the second phase is really bringing Bitcoin Payment
Processing two bolts merchants, and that's going to look very
similar. It's going to be a supercharged
because it's going to be ready out of the gate.
So there's not going to be any integration work.
So both Stone, a really incredible job really working
with some of the aggregators out there so I can Bigcommerce is
the and and other like magento's or the world.
So there's a lot of merchants to have is out of the box and we're
going to be able to Bitcoin Payment Processing directly to
all those merchants. And start accepting it over
over, you know, overnight basically and how that's going
to work is it's going to be, you know, they go through the
checkout flow and they'll be presented with the QR code and
consumers, will be able to shop directly on those merchants.
And then the merchants will be able to either hold it in
Bitcoin, right? So hold the acid and Bitcoin and
and there's like, all this cool stuff happening right now.
We're making it easier for For corporations actually store
Bitcoin on the balance sheet, you know like the accounting
Association. Just like did some really
awesome stuff. Put it initiative in making that
easier for merchants to do that. And or they'll have the option
to converting that instantly into a Fiat and paying out their
suppliers if they if they choose.
So we're make it super seamless for merchants to have that
capability and I think will be bold be the largest Bitcoin
payment processor overnight when that happens.
So in terms of volume and in terms of Don't quote me on that,
but I think that overnight there.
I think they'll be one of the largest Bitcoin prices were just
going to be super exciting. So that's what the second phase.
The third phase, which is really kind of really ties in
everything is kind of Downstream I bought in.
I don't know how much of this is, you know, bolting the in
process of like working on a wallet and and once that wall is
is enacted, then making it one, click from the wallet historian,
a Bitcoin balancing the wall and then paying directly on the As
Merchants is going to be super streamlined.
So really closing that Loop the hole closed loop Network or open
network that they have through Merchant wall and Shoppers is
going to be powerful. So that's really a three-step
phase approach that we're working on and it's going to be
extremely powerful when it's all up and running.
Yeah, I think that's that's that's exactly right.
Like what we are doing is we have this proper accounts
network with all their payment information now, We allow them
to store in a save their Bitcoin wallet.
So, you know, connect them or store them into our account.
Now, they are there. They can there the opportunity
to go and buy whatever they want to buy on the internet.
Without any friction, just by with one click.
And that's where our fraud is very important.
How far systems are very important because one of the
biggest challenge from merchants or anyone doing this transaction
is, how can they do that? Safely?
Right? They are worried about that, but
that, and that's what we constantly get.
Um, everyone. And so the power of our Shopper
accounts Network, a power of our Advanced fraud system in the
power of the identity. We have the power of
connections. We already have deeply
integrated with the merchants. That is bringing making it much
easier for people to use it, Merchants to accept, and a path
to bring it mainstream. Are y'all ready for this one?
I'm assuming, I'm just going to be a hot wallet, or will it be a
cold storage wallet? So it will.
So we have just taken a step back while it has wire has like
custodial services. So we provide apis, to make it
easier for people to build a noncustodial and custodial.
Well, it's so right now we have our a lot of like Applegate.
You make it super easy for developers to come in and have
this like, simple API. We're gonna spin up wallets and
they can Either decide to store the key on the device or they
can. So I decide to store the key in
our centralized servers, you try to make it easy for people to
get up and running. So there's option of integrating
both. It's undecided which route we we
will go with with the bolt wallet, but it's you know, we
want to make it super easy for people to have flexibility of
interacting with a noncustodial in custodial.
So it kind of merging the experiences together.
So I think there will definitely take those.
You know, I'm a huge porn on because kind of like
decentralization and And and only, yeah, you own your keys
and on your body type situation. So we are, will definitely take
those considerations in the design phase.
Sure. Are there plans to have the code
for the wallet be open source, or will that be controlled by
bolt? That's a good question.
Is a really good question modular.
I'll let you decide on that. Well, I mean, I think that's a
great question. I don't think we haven't made a
decision on that that yet, so, That great question will
certainly let you know as we kind of evolved to that thinking
process. Like we are a big
destabilization is core to our DNA and what our goal is to
bring in a Bitcoin and all the crypto infrastructure available.
Bring it to everyone. Like whether that's Merchants
Bank, what we are seeing demand from our chains, right?
Like Merchants are seeing that by looking at some numbers.
There are seeing that the merchants who are accepting trip
toad. The seeing a higher number of
Shoppers new Shoppers net, new Shoppers like 40 percent of net,
new Shoppers show up on Merchants, who are accepting
crypto and also the Shoppers who are paying with crypto.
They tend to like spend twice as much as than the previous
Shoppers are using credit card. So from an economics
perspective, Merchants really want the access to it.
The reason they are not a able to kind of take advantage of
that. Is there.
It's a multi-step process. Process and there's a lot of
risk involved and really nobody simplifying those things.
Our goal really is to like simplify all of that, remove all
the friction from the process. So that many Merchants wants to
tell on crypto and take advantage of all this new shop
Rings Chopper segments that they don't have access to today, and
we can make that happen just without writing any code because
it's already written for them. And all the connective is
available and that brings a lot more options for Shoppers.
Is now they don't have to go and find out, you know, the few
shops that except now the world is dropping line.
And also also the shop ring experience itself is changing,
right? Like it more and more Shoppers
are not just shopping on a merchant website.
People are shopping on social media.
People are shopping by in a looking at blog.
If they follow somebody on influencer.
They see something they want to have the ability to like provide
a one click, one, click, and it's yours.
And those infrastructure is not available.
Therefore everyone today and that's what both has.
So when a merchant use bold, they can provide a great
shopping experience on their side including acceptance of
Bitcoin. So now they have access to this,
you know, the new generation segment with work, or a
high-value Shoppers for them and make that shopping experience.
Easy everywhere. When they extend, that product
out to social media, or one of their influences, connecting
their, or displaying your product rather than clicking it,
take you to a link back to Merchants now.
Five more steps to pay with Bitcoin.
Now. It's like you see something on
the video. You just click one.
Click, it's done. And we Empower that entire
connectivity and the transactions and also manage the
for behind-the-scenes. That's the vision and that's why
we are excited about it. And as we recommend we do that
everything, you know, like Bitcoin become even more
mainstream in the Commerce. Well, that's what we are excited
about. Now, how exactly we make it
happen. We were constantly working with
the developers and Merchants and customers to see, we know what
what's important for them. And you know, what are the
friction? How can we help?
Whatever is helpful to make that all happen will do?
I'm genuinely curious of just for how much education.
I know that you've explained out sort of what the incentive is
for. These Merchants to accept
Bitcoin and crypto at large, as payments.
But what education is going into these emergencies to understand
better sort of what is going on? If any at all or is this simply
just Hey, this is the new product.
We're offering. Maybe what questions are your
Merchants asking you about Bitcoin in this new offering as
it's being rolled out. Yeah, so it's a great question.
So we are, you know, I speak to customers every day and one of
the things that constantly come on top before everyone is what
is that crypto strategy? So everyone is thinking about
it, but the problem is, people don't know.
A lot of details, like the education that you mention is
less. They understand, they are
awareness of Opto, they understand it's good, but they
don't really know how to go after it.
And also when they want to go after it, the the the bar they
have to pass to like, you know, understanding come to
understanding all the different companies.
Now talk about the implementation integration.
Those are steps. Nobody is ready to take because
there's so many other things going on.
So this is why both bringing up. This product is very powerful
for them because V is already integrated into the margin and
if they can take advantage of this without having to study the
whole thing and like go and do an entire market research and
make it available. Now, they can do an a/b test.
Like they can turn it on for a couple months and see what's
happening and see the results for themselves.
And So education is important but awareness is their education
is important. But what is even more powerful
is make it so that they don't even have to think about it.
Make it an option and a configuration, they can a
beaters, see the power for themselves and then make
decisions based on a Yeah, I think I'll just see if I can
add. Obviously we work with like a
lot of developers. So I'm not in more in tune with
the merchants. But I think it's like coming in
the for light. I think that where you know, all
these like Fortune 500 companies kind of last year.
The past couple of years adding Bitcoin a to the balance sheet
has definitely brought a whole different perspective to just
you know, hey, well, how do we get this asset?
Right. How do we sell goods and
actually get Bitcoin and store it on the on the balance sheet?
And I think that's like a and hedging against, you know, a lot
of people have cash on their balance sheets and hedging
against whatever macro, economic environment, there might might
be. So I think that there's probably
a different conversation as well happening on that sort of side
right, where it's like, you know, obviously we're going to
get a new demographic in, right? We're going to get new Shoppers
coming into the ecosystem. They spend more.
There's a lot of studies around that, which is really exciting.
But the second side is like, hey, this is an easy way to also
get Bitcoin on the balance sheet, right?
And this is something that Store and and I think that the those
conversations have been brought, you know with huge companies
adding that on like microstrategy and Tesla and a
few others over the past couple of years.
So we were I think it's gonna be really exciting as leveraging
that on macro economic standpoint.
Not telling you how to run your company module but it kind of
sounds like your next project definitely build to build to be
to build out that infrastructure for everyone who's holding their
Bitcoin on balance sheets after They've collected money from
their customers to that, now, spend it to their suppliers and
so on. But that's just my two cents on
it, after hearing, after hearing the last like, five minutes.
That's where my head is going after you guys roll this out, is
right. Now, how did these Merchants
unlock using their Bitcoin more and more?
I'm curious right now, how much, how many payments are being
processed by bolt on a daily or maybe on an annual basis?
I don't know if you have those numbers handy.
Well, I mean, we balloons. Dollars a year.
So it's our, we have a fairly large customer base and most of
our customers and to be larger side.
So even though the number of customers may be more, the they
are, most of them are on the larger side.
So we transact many billions of dollars of transactions every
year. And one of the advantage of the
Bulb Has is when bolt is what emerges.
Campsite we take all the entire check out.
So we are not like a separate. Button for checkout, you know,
there's so many different bottoms nowadays to do, the
check out on a checkout screen and they don't get the consumer,
will have to make a choice if they want to click one of those
buttons. Both does not follow that
pattern. We replace the merchants main
check out. So we bring the Power of One
Click into their native workflow.
That means for us, is we get all the transactions that are
happening on the merchant side flow through our system.
So we are able to say Higher level and help Merchants to
choose the different payment options.
They want to use, which is why, as enabling Bitcoin means, it's
not a consumer, has to make two choices.
Now, it in a big bowl, bold and then pick Bitcoin from that.
Say, both is already integrated into the merchants workflow and
check out. And if Bitcoin is their default
payment, no decision made the minute you type in your email
address and say you wanted to, you know, we recognize you and
immediately we know. Repayment options.
It's all natively built into the account so we can make it
happen, much better than any of the other kind of a separate
workflow that getting added on to Chicago.
Moser. I'm curious what point during
the transaction is Bolt receiving.
Some sort of a cutter fee. Is that more felt on the
merchant side, or I'm assuming it is.
But what point or we're not transaction cycle is that
happening? Yeah.
We the way we charge is what we charge.
Even we help a merchant. So we charge when we can enable
a one-click transaction for a merchant.
So if we help then we, we take a small benefit out of that.
So think of it's like a small percentage of the gmv
transactions when we help Merchants with a one-click
transaction, which they wouldn't have gotten otherwise without
booked so and and that's great economics for merchants because
we know that whenever Emergent can provide a one-click
transaction where people don't have to type in all the
information. They see that around 60%,
increase in conversion happens, so high likelihood of
conversion, which is great when Ecommerce is awesome.
It's also amazing. When when you have fewer number
of Shoppers on your side, again, converting them will become even
more important. So providing that one click
transaction is a great conversion benefit lift for
merchants, for, for merchants to Shoppers.
Now the also, the interesting fact is a shopper who get a
one-click checkout experience. There is a 50% chance that they
will come back and become a repeat customer.
So we help initially with the Trans either, by converting a
visitor into a an actual customer and then we have a
customer into a lifetime customer.
So we are truly a merchant family company and we want to
make sure that the merchants can compete and win.
In during this, you know, like the difficult times and
especially create more competition and choices in the
market for Shoppers. So, helping Merchants to convert
and, you know, maintain their customers and keep them as a
lifetime customer is what we go for.
And we the economics work for both sides, which are winning.
I just had a question that I'm really mad at myself because it
was damn, I keep trying to type these up, but I did want to get
a sense from the You have you on just how or what you guys
Envision being like some of the hurdles in Merchants you do
actually? No, that's not the question.
I want to ask online shopping and just online in general
virtual stuff. We're on Zoom right now that
really picked up to two years ago and we have slowly been
seeing over the course of the last, like six months, people
wearing thin of the online experience and going back into
faulting to in-person things. How has the online merchants?
- been doing for e-commerce in general through bolt size and
perspective, why the industry Trends as you rightly pointed
out is that you know, pandemic axillary, Commerce, probably, a
decade ahead. So it's nothing new.
We don't see any new trends. We just seen that it just
activated fast. And also, like I mentioned
before, people are more comfortable, you know, Shoppers
are becoming more conscious. They care about where they buy
from, just because it's cheap or fast, doesn't matter.
You know, they care where It's coming from, who are the
supporting? Is at a local brand.
Do they understand the brand, what the brand stands for all of
those became more and more important.
So what that means for merchants is like, you really need to tell
your story to The Shopper. So to tell the story you need to
really understand what the Shopper is.
You need to know that identity, you need to communicate to them.
And so a system, like, bold become very important for them
because we are the identity provider.
We identify the proper way. Recognize them.
So that the brands can tell their story, whether they are
local weather is what does stand for as a sustainable, you know,
for the world. And where were they are?
Supporting all of those. Become very important.
Now, same way with the buying and different places at the
point of Discovery in spiritually or point of
inspiration. People are buying from
influencers. Again, the same thing, you know,
it really understand the customer irrespective of where
they are buying from there by even your site, or anywhere
else. Now the e-commerce Trend during
the pandemic accelerator. Now, we are seeing a little bit
of deceleration of that. From an industry perspective,
not just from both Merchant side, but generally in Industry,
if you look at the numbers eCommerce spreading to more like
a you know, slightly more butts trending towards the
pre-pandemic kind of arranged what that means for all
emergencies. Now, you need to be even more
thoughtful on connecting with the murder.
Do your Shoppers because now, you know, you really need to
keep your Shoppers. You really need to like provide.
Vide a great experience when they come there and you really
need to make sure that they understand what you stand for.
So bold is providing a great value for merchants to our the
journey through the app time through the crimes than the
change in the industry and you know as we continue.
But overall my view the personal view on and kind of been working
in e-commerce for last decade or so, is that Ecommerce will
continue to grow an e-commerce will evolve and change.
Only channel will become the output of this.
But our means, is people all went online.
Now, stores are coming back and so a mixed omni-channel
experience where you can go to a store, you know, whether and you
can still get the online experience.
They are like, we have products like you, our core products
where you can put a QR code right next to our power back in
the physical store, and you can scan that QR code, you can L
learn more about that product. You can even order a slight
variance of that product. That's not And our store but we
can provide a lot of that experience.
And the same way that experience the are connecting with your
virtual experience. You never buy something in the
physical world. How can you represent that in
the window in the virtual world? So connecting your Zoom virtual
life, connecting the physical store, connecting the online
shopping. People want that omni-channel
experience and whoever can solve that is going to be kind of
driving Innovation and bold. Mission is to kind of drive that
We are investing and innovating in all those faces and we are
working with closely with customers to navigate through
that. But you know, whether it's an
app or a down that's when Innovation happen.
And that's when you can really differentiate between who really
have a long-term View and who returned.
And we are lucky to have great customers and partners who are
thinking, really long-term want to innovate with us experiment
with us. And you know, I think with
Johnny and The Wider team is going to be like part and parcel
of this wall experience. We want to try for Future.
Yali. I want to ask you something, you
brought up earlier just about like the Simplicity of using
wire, like, as easy as linking a credit card, or then, boom,
you're off kind of to the races. Can you also made me touch on a
little bit of what I had asked maju to talk about through bolts
perspective of fees, and we're wires really making the most of
their money there. Yeah, absolutely.
So we have two businesses. One is our on-ramp business and
then our second business is our API infrastructure.
Really. Kind of the Creeped out or the
stripe for Bitcoin per se. So, our first, our first part of
the business is the on-ramp. We make it super simple.
We connect all the payment methods cards, ACH, wires sepa,
global bank transfers make it super, super simple, you know,
nice widget where you can redirect your customers to this
widget. We take our all the regulation,
the fraud, the the the conversion of the USD to or
like, Fiat into Kripke are to pick one.
You make it super simple in this widget.
And then we enable within with low KY C, denote kyc,
low-friction to be able to buy crypto and deposit directly into
a platform. And that's like what we saw.
So, if a developer comes, you know, developers come into space
and they're like trying to build out the next coinbase.
So they're trying to build out the next square cash out.
But, you know, it takes a lot of work.
It takes like a lot of like years of planning, it takes you
have to get the regulatory hurdles and and you have to
build a liquidity engine to actually convert.
You have to go to all Payment channel.
So as a developer, having the space, we make it super easy for
people to have this on-ramp functionality into the
application. And we started off with that
mission around 2018 to how do we really give billions of billions
of people in the space? And this was a big problem that
and I'd so I'd still say that, you know, there's a big problem.
So, focusing on right now on rapping.
So the way that we make fries, we obviously provide a lot of
value there. So we tried to feed, you know,
for cards. It's two point nine, nine
percent Plus $0.30 for For domestic payments.
And then for international, it's 3.9%.
Very similar to what you'd pay another card processing company,
but you get so much more we identified for all the fraud.
Right? So if every single transaction
that comes through, the merchant doesn't have to worry about
that. We run our fraud engine and with
both Rod engine that we're working together on, it's going
to be even better. They're in.
The second thing is we take care of all the liquidity converting
u.s. Dollars in Bitcoin and setting
it on the blockchain that ecosystem is Is, you know, and
getting the best rate at different values at different
times. Is not a, you know, it's an
easier problem. But when we started in 2012
2013, there's like a quite difficult problem to actually
solve this like winning the engine.
So we make it super simple. And that's, that's what we
charge there. And they for our API
infrastructure. It's completely free to use up
front and you can come to us and we charge pay-as-you-go type
model where you you know, as your business scales up we try
to per transaction fee. So it's It's quite simple.
We make it super easy for developers come in and start
building immediately with us. That's the beauty of why I
thought, you know, just very like smart how he and the team
has built his overtime is kind of build the API layer so that
every developer who want to build something around this,
they can build it like without any friction and it made it
super easy and simple and comprehensive I think wire is.
I mean, it is why it is the most comprehensive appr.
Stack that's available on the market.
So and I spoke a lot of developers who are trying to
like, Cobble together applications by building pieces
from different place or they can just come to wire and wire
provides everything top to bottom.
So I think that's a big enabler for developers.
And you know, how many developers you have already
using their system today? Yeah.
So we have roughly then we have over four to five thousand
developers playing around at any given time on our I stack with
end users in the in the tune of like 6 to 7 million end users
from those platforms. So just to tying it to what
module said, 100% like we want to provide a pool and and stack.
So if you're trying to go to coinbase and less than a few
hours, we provide you with the wallet infrastructure.
We provide you with the payment infrastructure, the send money
in. We provide you with the payout
infrastructure to pay out money and then the whole liquidity
engine from moving US dollars to bitcoin Bitcoin the u.s.
Dollars or US dollars to bitcoin Bitcoin 2 euros.
And move Value Plus the entire planet.
We're very much a global player as well.
So we're not just focused with in the u.s.
We have other jurisdictions and we take care of all the hurdles
around the regulatory front. So we have like that money
transmission, licenses. We have licenses all over the
world and a lot of these developers.
They can just Leverage come in, leverage our infrastructure to
do that. So, we are really end-to-end
layer. So, you know, if say I want to
build a Bitcoin payment processor, there's a lot that
goes into that, you have to build the Cue our sister QR Code
system. You have to build the liquidity
the payout system to pay out your Merchants.
Once they get Bitcoin into u.s. Dollars or some fiat currency so
that if there's a lot of pieces and you can come to wire and
just build that out and less than less than a couple of
hours. So we make it super simple for
people to build out a product. That's amazing.
Like the power I've seen is that you can can build your own
coinbase. In a couple of hours, which is
fascinating. I love giving everything that
coinbase has been going through over the last 48 hours there.
Surely about to be a new coin, maze pop out soon enough.
I love this Simplicity of building applications.
It's a necessity. I think in the larger ecosystem
and we'll feed well to just the growth and use cases of Bitcoin.
I however, have another question that is probably more personal
because this is my nightmare. My nightmare is spending my
Bitcoin because of the tax implications of that.
What processes if any have you guys sort of put in to help
customers kind of not get so tepid about maybe spending a few
hundred dollars in Bitcoin, but then figuring out how that tax
hurdle is going to play into effect for them.
Yeah. This is a this is a problem that
everyone saying I get paid in Bitcoin, in a lot of people at
wire, get paid in Bitcoin as well.
So it's always kind of the hurdles like Hey, I get paid.
There's cap gains tax on my payroll.
So I'm kind of getting double paid every time I spend and I'm
just like, I love it. I absolutely love it.
And it's great. I usually have a hundred dollars
to in cash in my bank account. They'll tell don't tell my mom,
but I have a lot but, you know, if you sit on a Bitcoin in my
payroll, but but yeah, it's it's, you know, I think this is
this stems to of regulatory front on the how, you know,
Germany, just made it no cap, gains taxes for the first like
two years. So there is some regulation
coming and spending On how you use Bitcoin, right?
So not everything. Like if you look in the Fiat
world, like, not every dollar is treating the same, like how you
invest dollars and securities is different than how you invest
dollars in property and so forth.
And I think that regulation will catch up there.
And if we want this to be a Global Currency, we, you know,
which we do. And we wanted to be a
decentralized currency. There's going to be some merger
of this centralized World in a decentralized world in this.
And, and there are needs to be some kind of understanding on
like, hey, this is Bitcoin payroll.
And your caps can't access shouldn't be denominated there.
But it is a, I don't have a good answer to that.
I like you. I wish I wish I, if anybody
does, I think it'd be very interesting.
I think that the only thing is like you want to get it to a
place where you're using Bitcoin and spending Bitcoin, right?
So like you're getting paid in Bitcoin and then you're actually
just paying for things in Bitcoin.
I think the integration boat here is going to help us get a
step closer there. Right?
So we'll be able to there's 800 more Merchants where I can now
I'll spend my Bitcoin and that gets me closer to living in this
beautiful Bitcoin, only economy, which were really excited about.
Yeah, you touch on it a little bit Yadi and I love for both of
you to maybe discuss the legislative efforts around Bit
Coin and crypto at large, can be both helpful in hurtful to
long-term benefits. We're seeing countries like
Panama introduced, broader crypto legislation to
essentially figure out a way to back Channel Bitcoin and Others,
as currency that country, we saw El Salvador's news last year.
We saw the news out of Central, African Republic, just think not
only two weeks ago. I'm curious what legislative
efforts you guys are paying very close attention to if any at
all. Well, I mean, I would say like,
you know, obviously President Biden saying the strategy on
bitcoin, which is great. Like I think whether, you know,
the legislation and everybody's all the legislators, really
Adding and studying. All the details is important
because I worry, that one of the biggest problems people have
this cursory understanding of things, and they really don't
really go deep. And, and so people make these
assertions without really understanding the foundation.
And so educating and really going deep and making sure that
the government spend enough time understanding all the specifics
is a good thing. The second thing is, you know,
for all is a big area of concern for any of these things, right?
How do we bring the identity aspect into it?
How do we bring and eliminate fraud so that this is more of a
legal channel of translation versus kind of more overshadowed
with any kind of anything else going on there.
So some legal some legislation and regulation is good.
As long as it is founded with deep study versus come when of
rhetoric at the very top level. And so that's kind of my view.
We need to balance that and so the education need to be strong.
The fraud system need to be stronger identity.
You to be strong in that way. It just goes from just Bitcoin
being used by a small group of, you know, like the people like
around only 4% of the internet users use crypto today, which is
a really, really small population to make it really
mainstream because they don't need to worry about it because
it's all taken care. That's my view.
Yeah. I'm sure you spend a lot more
time on this. So yeah, we definitely do.
We spend a lot of time on this, you know, the, you know, so why
are you know, as Wires agnostic. So we support a lot of different
varieties, just not just Bitcoin, but we spent a lot of
time in stable coins. And there's a lot of he asked o
around stable coins and a lot of work that is happening there and
obviously algorithmic and which with the UST Fiasco happy and
now it could be very interesting, but also see some
centralized stable points as well.
So there's a lot of work that we went spent a lot in the past
year. Really, promoting.
I think long-term Bitcoin has is the, the stable Currency that we
need right like in the long run. So like it's just a the time
Horizon that everyone's buying. We're trying to put current
regulation in kind of like the, you know, everyone.
I feel like there's a lot of pressure in the regulatory
bodies to do something right now, which could is, is a
positive thing. Right?
I think it's, you know, could help promote and provide like a
playground for startups. Actually.
Hey, we have a direction. What to do?
Like, instead of like I force my my action type of, You're where
you operate for a couple years and then you get hit by the SEC
but with a fine without any understanding of that, what
you're supposed to do. So, I think there is some sort
of Regulation that is really really healthy.
But I think in terms of like a long-term strategy Bitcoin has
is going to be its own stable currency, right?
And that is the ultimate going to Bitcoin in you know, will fit
in the current regulatory infrastructure.
That different government bodies are are promoting right now.
It's stupid. Determined.
I think there were probably ten to fifteen years out from that
to be honest where if you know you can safely use Bitcoin as a
stable currency, but it's just I think we're what I'm trying to
say. I guess it's like I think we're
a little too early. I was a really bad time to bring
up stable. Currencies in a big point today.
All 100% Yeah. I think it's algorithmic or
whether it's Central fact is, there's there's definitely Pros
and cons to both ways. And everyone thinks I would
think is the best but we've seen, you know, Tara has
positive blockchain today. Like I can't imagine they're
going plus something they brought in any day of the week
any time soon. I don't think that's even
possible. So, I mean that happened in that
happened today with Tara And in but we've also seen with
Heather. Also the same time, you know,
Central back, centralized back, stable currency, having Shoes.
And so there's what we're trying to say is like there's a lot of
Regulation going into managing stable currencies, right?
And I think there's, there's a short game that there is being
had right now and I think it's healthy and some respect, but
the long game is really having a fully decentralized stable
currency that is operating without a central body, right?
This is the end game for Bitcoin.
And, you know, we're probably like 10 to 15 years out.
I'm all for regulation. I'm not promoting.
That's not right. Do you think And I'm all for
regulation. Like we would a lot of what we
do is make it easy for developers to play and
Regulatory regimes, right? Because we do all the hard
miles, getting regulated with money transmission.
Working with sec. We're going to the cftc, but I
think there is a long game there, too.
Also that even the crisis aren't stable.
Going are all even all of crypto.
I mean, I've had the opportunity to kind of leave through and
kind of Drive Innovation or some of the different Industries.
And even if you look like the.com, crash did not kill
internet. It just separated, you know, the
good ones from the bad ones, are the good ones, who can survive,
no more trans. So some kind of changes and
Corrections in the industry. Just kind of Prove who are here
to stay and words. We're not just a and I think
might be a great moment for Bitcoin direct really kind of
shines. All of this and provide that
stability that probably nobody else has the infrastructure or
the or the the network to really power through and whether
through all of this, Yeah, I mean look young.
You bring it up. Tear is blockchain.
Moon is blockchain, which shut down to the right.
Chris was Luna. Yeah.
We saw it last year during the meme stock crazy for you had.
Literally the shutdown of AMC and Game.
Stop stop. You couldn't trade those dogs
anymore. Plenty of us have had our banks
to say. Hey, this credit cards, Frozen
or are you can't access this bank account?
So this has happened repeatedly throughout multiple different
ecosystems, but To God is why it cannot happen in Bitcoin that
type of a concentrated attack cannot happen because of the
decentralized nature of it. I'm genuinely curious for the
two of you to maybe speak on. You know, a lot of us in Bitcoin
get really frustrated when Bitcoin and crypto get lumped
together, especially by law, makers and legislators.
As these lawmakers, maybe start to learn a little bit more about
this ecosystem and what the different products really are.
What, what point do you guys get?
Nervous of them striking down against the Bitcoin or could do
is there may be a Securities that are a Securities tag on
some of these assets are on some of these crypto currencies that
would in turn make some of these offerings a little bit more
cumbersome to roll out. Yeah, just just adding I think
there's a lot still a lot of Education to happen right up
until like 20, you know, we had a lot of issues with like kind
of like privacy laws in the internet era.
Right? And that's you know, The
Internet's been around for 20 plus year.
I mean Been around longer than that, but it's really in the 90s
really started really getting popularity and up until like
maybe still today. We have a lot of like privacy
issues like and we see a lot of bad regulation happening.
I mean, everyone clicks those like data privacy laws on every
single EU website. So there's like, this is a
symptom of just like bad regulation, right?
And not thinking forward about how we think about like trust
and privacy. So I think that that's going to
happen with crypto on bitcoin, right?
It's going to happen Bitcoins gonna get lumped into crypto.
There's a lot of Education that needs to happen and it there
will be you know, we are you know, Bitcoins Unstoppable.
Now, right there is way too much information, happiness space.
There's way too many entrepreneurs coming to build
into this ecosystem. We've seen countries adopt
Bitcoin as a stable currency, or as a reserve currency, or even
as a for valid tender. And I think that were just at
the starting point here. So, I think that it all starts
with education and there is Some really good work happening
there, right. You see.
Jack Mahler is going down to uh, Salvador, doing incredible work.
Work with the president there. That's, you know, more of that
going to happen day in day out and we're doing great work here
at enabling Merchants to accept Bitcoin and making more valid at
the get except crypto or accept the coin as a as a payroll and
then actually pay your Bitcoin. So I think that it's a natural
progression and you're going to have this for the next 40 years.
It's, you know, people will not And you know as technology moves
too fast for people to understand and you have these
Decades of periods of people trying to keep up, that's just a
natural progression module. You have any thoughts on that
thing? You said it?
Well, right. Now people these are all real.
Every time technology go through a transformation, the similar
kind of cycle happened. There's going to be a lot of
different players. It got confused and that is
going to be some portion and the ones with the most Network and
Power And the deepest technology Will Survive.
So and also people always overestimate the short-run
benefits and underestimate the long term that is right.
So I think this is one of those scenarios like it's educational
process, a lot more people need to learn and understand and
people having a deep understanding of Bitcoin versus
just the broader crypto. All of that is going to be poor
soul. You have to stay well that and
I'm doing. A curious for the tribute to
maybe share. So as this offering gets rolled
out to your customer base. What is next?
What have sort of the goals over the next five to ten years for
the company to continue to grow and expand its footprint in the
Bitcoin, ecosystem module. You want to start this.
Yeah. I mean, our goal is to become
make weathers, buying, or using Bitcoin and crypto broadly
available. Where whether that's in a
virtual like, you know starting with an online like Commerce
Merchants moving to the virtual world make it available in the
in the physical store and pretty much make it available
internationally and ubiquitous. So that people whenever they
think of payment, you know, this is it that they don't need to
think about anything. I was there are none of the
other choices. We can simplify that so we want
to unify that experience. Eyes talk about that
omni-channel experience whether that's from a any transactions
whether that's Murmurs websphere to be here.
Anytime you have this options of exchanging value and exchanging
value will be done based on our underneath, our Chopper Network
that is basically a network of people.
They are wallets their information and the underlying
the the fraud system that's going to use all the data and
power of this thing and simplify.
So we don't really see an end to it because this is a
never-ending process. Outer world and spreading that
and wire already has a global footprint.
Both has a global footprint. So combining all of that and
extending into the fall, different aspects of value,
being exchanged. We expect us to be there.
Yeah, tie into that. I mean like the the thing that
really attracted us about isn't just their presence in kind of
like the mainstream e-commerce the world, right?
They have an incredible network of merchants.
Incredible Network Shopper is that you can really get pick one
really mainstream to a different different audiences.
Really exciting. And if you take a step back, I
mean like you have retail businesses where the value
creation has been happening, you know, retail businesses are
become eCommerce businesses, e-commerce businesses.
I've become fintech businesses. And fintech, businesses are
becoming big one businesses. And this is like the value chain
of how things are going to happen or the next like five to
ten to fifteen years. So it with that mindset is like
we have a lot of work to do to get billions of people into
Quite right. There's no on ramps are still
broken their broken Flows at, you know, we're trying to work
with this, a different kyc processes in the Legacy world
that you know, started with the banks and whatnot.
And you know, we could up there's a lot of improvements
over you make their the we're working on payment systems that
have been created for the past, like in the past 100 years that
were still using today, right? People are still selling sending
mail checks around actually pay for payroll and whatnot.
So we're just modernizing. And trying to get people and
build use cases to get people into Bitcoin.
And you know, we started this in 20, you know, I started a
company in 2012. And with this vision is like
hey, would it be cool if people can use their Bitcoin and buy
things and then it said like every curtain that weird up in
the financial system we realize what what do you what do you
mean? ACH is built this way.
So if wires are built this way and it's like almost as
curiosity. We realize that we have a lot of
work to do and getting making it easier for people to build into
this ecosystem. So this only accelerates over
the, you know, in getting billions.
People in space and I think that that vision of getting people
into a cripple, our economy or Bitcoin economy is not going to
change and this is only going to accelerate with all really
excited about that. Yeah.
I am genuinely curious like how as you seen for the Bit Coin and
crypto ecosystem, transform over the course of your time, working
with, in it, like what are things that have surprised you
that have come up and what are things that, you know, you
genuinely are excited about as it continues to iterate and grow
in its own right? Are they?
I think the what I'm surprised about in the current environment
as well as like, where people just fall in the same traps,
right? We've seen the Ico trap and
2017. We're seeing the similar trap
right now and I think that it's just fascinating.
I've been through many bear market like for Bear markets now
and it's just it's it's just fascinating seeing similar traps
happen in the same area and it retail markets, you know, follow
retail markets and people are going to get burned and they I
say, educate and you find people, you know, migraine to
the right environment or right communities, or right assets to.
So it's an interesting onboarding that we've seen in
the past 10 years. And I think, I think it's good
for that. It happens.
Now, let's get all this stuff out of the way in the first like
ten years of building because this is like Bitcoins way too
big to fail right now and and to get it wrong and you know, we
have a massive opportunity ahead of us.
So that's what that's what surprise.
Me the most. I think it's extremely relevant
to today as well in. No, I'm not so markets behaving,
the way that they behave. Love that.