1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,800 You were called Voldemort. Yeah, they say. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:04,640 And what's called Voldemort? Wait. 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:20,640 To be honest, Tick is my fancy. I mean, it's fast and loose out 4 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,560 there, Sally. It is fast and loose. 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,360 It's fast and loose out there. Shame is a really big topic in 6 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,000 the world of baby sleep. It's something that you have 7 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,520 absolutely experienced. In fact, I would dare to say 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,560 that it put part of your career on hold. 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,000 Oh yeah. Or at least slowed it down 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,680 dramatically, which is devastating for many, many 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,880 reasons. And it is something that I, as 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,960 someone who spends a lot of time creating baby sleep content on 13 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,800 social media, particularly TikTok, which is just the Wild 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,440 West, the Wild West overalls and comments. 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,480 And we just know that baby sleep is an incredibly divisive topic. 16 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,720 We want to sort of talk about and have a conversation around 17 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:08,160 the things that we experience, the comments that we get, the 18 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:12,280 shame that gets thrown our way, and also try to unpack it a 19 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:16,040 little bit as to what might actually be going on. 20 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:20,600 But also hopefully strike a chord with you as our listeners 21 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,280 who you know, if you're listening to this, to our 22 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,400 podcast, chances are you're sleep training curious. 23 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,520 You have sleep trained, you want to sleep train, you've done 24 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,760 sleep training. And the shame that you can also 25 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,840 experience online, but also sometimes in person. 26 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:40,920 Yes, because I often wonder if there's a lot of families out 27 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,640 there, particularly mothers, who wouldn't mind dabbling in a bit 28 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:48,600 of sleep training. But they're, they're, they don't 29 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,880 want to, for they don't want anyone to think badly of them or 30 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:58,360 negatively or associate them with the sleep training world. 31 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,480 And so they just don't like, I wonder if there's people out 32 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,400 there who are listening, but they actually don't want to 33 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,840 actively do any sort of sleep training element because out of 34 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,720 fear that they're going to be judged by their peers, their 35 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,720 friends, their family for choosing to do something that 36 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,360 may not align with them. Absolutely, and what I what my 37 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:24,000 sort of working theory is that in an attempt for a lot of 38 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,200 commenters to shame me as a sleep consultant who get sleep 39 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,640 consultants get a very bad rap. And sometimes I can understand, 40 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:35,880 you know, particularly some of the the social media that I say 41 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,080 I'm like I get and you hear horror stories, right of sleep 42 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,960 consultants charging thousands of dollars and then essentially 43 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,280 ghosting. We know we are not a govern a I 44 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:47,600 kind of even say the word. We're not. 45 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,400 We don't have a governing body. I wish desperately, Beck, when 46 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,760 you and I create and launch our certification process, I would 47 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:57,960 love for it to be governed by opera. 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:59,920 Like that's on my life To Do List. 49 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:03,960 It should be because there are absolutely Cowboys out there, 50 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,360 right? Which then give the rest of us 51 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:12,120 who are care so deeply about you and your experience and your 52 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,280 mental health, your family's ability to thrive, your need for 53 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,320 sleep. All of us, we take it so 54 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,200 seriously that it it rubs off on us, right. 55 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,360 I think that in a lot of commenters attempt to shame me 56 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,560 as a sleep consultant. What ends up happening is it 57 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,680 further perpetuates the shame that other, and I'll speak about 58 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,760 mothers here because that's primarily who I work with, 59 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,560 mothers looking to make a change, thinking I'm not coping, 60 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,880 I am struggling, I am at my wit's end. 61 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,200 However, you are feeling, looking to make change, thinking 62 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,240 about sleep training and then you see these comments that are 63 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:58,440 directed at me but are internalised by the other mother 64 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,680 reading those comments and the detriment to that mother who 65 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:07,760 then doesn't seek help and then just has to battle on. 66 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,360 And that you know, you know, my feelings on like that these two 67 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:15,720 shall pass sort of mentality around this when really there is 68 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:20,839 a really great solution that is evidence based and is not as 69 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,760 scary as it is made out to be. But it stops them in their 70 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,320 tracks, I think, or at least delays them until they've hit 71 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:30,600 rock bottom. And why? 72 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:36,040 Why are we hoping that another mother will hit rock bottom 73 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,120 before she makes change? Or what's the outcome once they 74 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:46,400 hit rock bottom and they can't bring themselves to do any type 75 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,680 of sleep work? Like where where did where does 76 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:54,440 one go from rock bottom? Yeah, with no escape plan. 77 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,960 Yeah, except for shame, but I feel like this would be a good 78 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,800 time. And this is something you told 79 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:06,960 me very early on in US meeting, because I have always used you 80 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,880 as a mentor. Always, always, always used you 81 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,880 as a mentor. And so I would share, 82 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,920 particularly when I was starting on social media, the things that 83 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:21,600 I was hearing and I needed you, I needed someone else to share 84 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,960 it with, to share it with so that I could keep going. 85 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:31,600 And you shared a story with me that I think sort of summarises 86 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,280 the experience that we get on social media. 87 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,720 And I feel like if you feel comfortable now that years, 88 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,320 years have passed in sharing that, I think it's really 89 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,720 important for the listeners to know what we get on the other 90 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:52,920 side of our content. The, and this really was like 10 91 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,120 years ago now. So I've been doing this for, oh 92 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,560 gosh, I don't know, 12, nearly 12 years. 93 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,480 And it was 10 years ago. And the Lula doll was a like a, 94 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:07,120 it was the, IT was the latest Fandango sort of sleep aid in 95 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,400 terms of, it was like a doll. It had within a recording a 96 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:16,320 recorded heartbeat which played for 8 hours, which in itself was 97 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,240 problematic because we, if, if I was designing something like 98 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,440 that, I would have the heartbeat going for at least 1213 hours. 99 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,520 Like just, you know, So it was problematic in the sense that it 100 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,760 was designed to go off at like the most fragile time in the 101 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,960 morning, which was 4:00. So I had a BMI, I bonded about 102 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:41,000 that, but the but I did it was $100. 103 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,680 The doll was $100 and there were people it was it was going 104 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:45,800 bananas. I don't know if. 105 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:49,400 It really went off. Sophie, Sophie La Giraffe, you 106 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,240 know, the teething toy that was like that was a huge thing 107 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,160 before the Lula doll. And you know, that was $40 in 108 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,720 itself, but the the Lula doll was $100. 109 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:03,960 And I was new to the game of trying to create content with 110 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,480 videos on Facebook and all those sorts of things. 111 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,600 So I worked up the courage to do a Facebook life because anyone 112 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,560 that follows me will know that I'm just not that visible on 113 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,320 Facebook or Instagram. And and it was really hard for 114 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,360 me to do a video because I just don't like seeing myself on 115 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,840 camera. Anyway, I did it. 116 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,880 It took me about 87 takes but I eventually got there. 117 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,520 The video was about how to create your own Lula doll 118 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:37,760 without the price tag and it was just simply using a comforter 119 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,600 and using white noise or brown noise on a different device. 120 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,080 It could have been a fan in the room, or it could have been 121 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:49,000 using one of the apps on your phone and Bob's your uncle. 122 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:54,560 It was kind of free as such, and I put it up. 123 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,360 It was great for the afternoon. I kind of didn't check. 124 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,200 I hate checking back to see myself on screen all over again. 125 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,880 But I woke up the next morning to hundreds and hundreds of 126 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,400 comments, and they were terrible, terrible comments 127 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,440 about how dare you. That advice is so dangerous. 128 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,160 Who would put a phone in a bassinet with a baby? 129 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,080 Who would? How do you how would you 130 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,120 consider yourself to be a sleep consultant? 131 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,440 You know, with such dangerous advice, these recommendations 132 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,800 are disgusting. Like it was just, it went on and 133 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:33,400 on and on until eventually one said you should kill yourself 134 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:40,240 and and it was so devastating. Like it was like, because the 135 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:47,520 followers of the Lula doll had somehow got in touch with a, a 136 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,760 brand like a company, like a like, like a toy company kind of 137 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,880 thing, who then told their followers how dangerous my 138 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,280 advice was. And then they all got behind it 139 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,240 and there was, and it was international. 140 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:01,960 So it wasn't even just Australia based. 141 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,200 There was like New Zealand, England that it was all over. 142 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,200 It was global flight, global hate to this tip. 143 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:14,000 And I just remember laying in bed like and I had some amazing 144 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,320 sleep consulted friends who went into bat for me because I 145 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,800 couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't open my phone. 146 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,920 I couldn't look at any of the comments. 147 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,880 I was debilitated, like literally debilitated because it 148 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,960 was it is and it was. It was my worst nightmare 149 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,800 because I have seen in the past, I had seen other sleep 150 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,040 consultants, cops, so much Flack, so much hate, really 151 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,960 terrible comments and I didn't want to open myself up to that. 152 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,840 So I kind of felt quite safe providing a tip that was going 153 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:50,200 to provide great sleep. You know, it was just a tip. 154 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,760 It was a tip and it was workable and so forth. 155 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,040 And so I sort of thought I was safe, but then I was too kind 156 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:58,840 of. Well, now I still back myself 157 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:05,600 with the. 12 years later. Yeah, in that moment I realised 158 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,520 that nothing is safe. Like as a state consultant, 159 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:14,240 nothing that we say is safe from criticism or from words being 160 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,080 twisted or people having an opinion about our occupation and 161 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,120 how we work. And you know, the people that we 162 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,000 work with, like they're, we are not safe at all. 163 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:30,040 And, and in that moment, I totally retreated. 164 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,600 I barely put anything up like I and, and like you said before, 165 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:34,920 and I almost had tears in my eyes. 166 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:40,040 I was like, it really, really put a handbrake on my career at 167 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,800 that moment because I was, I was just trying to get into the 168 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,160 groove of things and finding my feet with the social media 169 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,720 space. And the. 170 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,560 And I still to this day really cover my ass when it comes to 171 00:10:52,960 --> 00:11:01,040 how I deliver content and what I how I show up in in social media 172 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,240 because I am absolutely terrified. 173 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,680 Yeah, I am so terrified that something else like that will 174 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:10,240 happen. And that's I like, I can think 175 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,720 of 1000 things that I want to share online and you're so good 176 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,720 at all the tips. Like I watch you on your TikTok 177 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:24,160 on Instagram, you know, and, and anytime you're doing lives and 178 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,080 you're so easy breezy with the way that you deliver your 179 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,760 content and you can articulate your words beautifully and make 180 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,120 it all make sense. And I wish that I could have 181 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:40,480 that ease of delivery. And I know that I can have that 182 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,520 when I get onto a, you know, when I'm in a safe space of 183 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,960 other sick consultants or, you know, family and friends. 184 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,640 And I can just talk passionately about, you know, what I believe 185 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,400 in and why I think it works and so forth. 186 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:57,040 But put me in front of a camera for the wall, the wolves, and I 187 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,480 freeze. I absolutely freeze. 188 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,440 I mean, to be honest though, my heart, I, I can feel my heart 189 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:06,000 racing. It's not just the second coffee 190 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,880 that I'm currently drinking. My heart races and my fingertips 191 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:15,000 tingle hearing that story because I I know it. 192 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,280 And you've been called. Some horrendous things like 193 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,720 absolute like, and this is skin that the skin that has to grow. 194 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,840 But you know, you were called Voldemort. 195 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,880 What's called Voldemort, which to be honest tick off my fancy 196 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,880 like all the comments that I've I've received and I do 197 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:40,520 appreciate it. You put yourself out there on 198 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,240 social media. It's part of the path of the 199 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,520 course. You being told, you being told 200 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:50,880 to kill yourself is so atrociously out of line 201 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:59,280 terrific. And and if you like, look at the 202 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,440 effect that it had on you on your business. 203 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:06,080 And still 12 years on, we've had to like build up what, what 204 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,720 episode are we up to like into the 80s of this before. 205 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,400 And we have talked about doing an episode and sharing that 206 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:16,200 story and we have spent 80 episodes building up the 207 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,160 confidence to do it. And we now feel safe enough is 208 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,360 in our in our own skin with our brand, with our listeners, that 209 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,360 this is a safe enough place to share this. 210 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:32,600 But also we want you to know that we see you as well as the 211 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,200 listeners who are also copying this. 212 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,400 If you talk about sleep training, I mean, I did get 213 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,920 called Voldemort. I the things I have nearly 214 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,680 burned my business to the ground so many times. 215 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,120 Yeah, I've particularly over the last two years. 216 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,920 I maybe appear easy breezy. I am your unflappable leader, 217 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,360 but when it comes to social media comments. 218 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,960 Yeah. It hurts so badly, it hurts so 219 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:08,400 badly, and if I didn't believe in what I was doing, I would 220 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:12,680 have stopped. But I know that you and I truly 221 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,160 change lives in a way that makes sense. 222 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,640 I am also the biggest believer in that nobody has to do this. 223 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,760 You do not have to sleep train. I have no agenda to convince 224 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,560 somebody to sleep train the things that affect me the most. 225 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,480 And this is absolutely why I doubled down. 226 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,800 I don't share pictures of my children on the Internet. 227 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,880 I very rarely share real life sleep stories. 228 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,360 I probably talk about it more on on the podcast. 229 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,720 I don't even share their names because I have been told that I 230 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:56,200 should have CPS Child Protective Services called on me for having 231 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,160 sleep trained my children. By the way, never sleep trained 232 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,440 my first. She just, she just did it, I 233 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:05,680 have been told. You don't even. 234 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,280 Have to do their adoption. Oh my God. 235 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,560 OK, so let's just add some trauma into the mix. 236 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,480 Yeah. But also the fact that you even 237 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,400 have to justify saying my first wasn't even sleep trained. 238 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,200 You know what I mean? Like we're like, then you're 239 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,320 sitting there. Go, go just for the record, like 240 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,080 I'd you know, but it's it's not something that we have to 241 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,120 justify. Even if you had to sleep train 242 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,080 both children, It's the justification isn't required. 243 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,320 No. I get I get told weekly to shut 244 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,280 the fuck up. Like literally people write that 245 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,120 I've been told I'm I, you can tell from my eyes that I'm dead 246 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,560 inside. People are just nasty. 247 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:51,760 And even this week and I hadn't even seen it and one of the 248 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,800 listeners and followers sent it to me not as in like to create 249 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,040 drama more than I was talking about this sort of shame and 250 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,400 hate that I was getting in my stories. 251 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,200 And I've tried to be a little bit braver whilst also remaining 252 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:08,120 professional. Sent me a screenshot of what 253 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,200 somebody. It wasn't even on my content. 254 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,960 It wasn't. So it wasn't like I defended 255 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,040 them in my in in a video that I'd made. 256 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,160 I'm just going to try and find it. 257 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,960 And this isn't about this person in particular. 258 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:25,280 I've never worked with this person. 259 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,040 Nothing. No idea, she wrote. 260 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,680 That's why convincing mums with poor mental health and instead 261 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,200 of getting support and knowing it's all normal and every baby 262 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,800 is unique, they should be paying for a cried out programme made 263 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,960 by ChatGPT. Sally baby sleep expert That's 264 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,320 Me is a perfect example of a predatory sleep consultant with 265 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,720 a ChatGPT programme designed to go against the individual and 266 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:52,440 biological needs of babies. And in all honesty, yeah, yeah, 267 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,440 yeah, it's quite savage. In all honesty, that did not 268 00:16:55,520 --> 00:17:01,240 upset me at all because it is so far from far from the truth for 269 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,000 a couple of reasons. Why I'd be pissed with the 270 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,160 ChatGPT mention? Because you're. 271 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,720 But it's so inaccurate. It's chat. 272 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,440 GPT in the room with us right now, like hello AI. 273 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,960 Like I know AI is getting really good but I'd be impressed with 274 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,839 that. Does AI Does ChatGPT log on to 275 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,599 our campus? News roll calls every single 276 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,480 morning and shoot from the hip with troubleshooting, 277 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,240 scheduling, cheerleading? Yeah, no. 278 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:35,120 No, it's it's it's me. But also I have photos of me 279 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:40,680 with printed my initial version of my 5 to 12 month sleep guide 280 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,200 which has been revamped absolutely as my practises 281 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,560 change. It's still fundamentally the 282 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,320 same guide, just with some tweaks printed up on the wall 283 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,120 when Baby P was 11 months old or something. 284 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:59,040 Like she's pulling up against the wall and there is me with a 285 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:04,120 Biro chatty P did not exist making amendments to send back 286 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:13,000 to the graphic designer. But the the like I can't even 287 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,360 think of the word. Not even hypocrisy. 288 00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:20,760 Like the the silly sausage trap that this comment falls into is 289 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,760 that mums with poor mental health that instead of getting 290 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,640 support and knowing it's all normal and every baby is unique, 291 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,640 they should be paying for a cried out programme. 292 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:33,000 It just it. Like you just tell me you don't 293 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,120 know how we work without telling me you don't know how. 294 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:40,480 We work 100%. Because we work to help parents, 295 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,280 particularly those with poor mental health due to due to baby 296 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,960 sleep issues, we normalise how hard baby sleep is. 297 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,240 We normalise that babies wake up. 298 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,520 We can't stop babies from waking. 299 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,360 We normalise how hard, how hard it all is. 300 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:03,160 I. Think the hardest part for well, 301 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,480 there's so many hard parts I receiving criticism is always 302 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,560 difficult to deal with. Absolutely. 303 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,160 But it's more, it's more difficult to deal with when they 304 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,560 don't know you personally, they don't know how you work. 305 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,800 They're making assumptions and they've got their own agenda and 306 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,800 they're trying to push the agenda on to other people and 307 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,360 encourage them to think differently. 308 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:32,240 Or that's, that's a really, that's a really tricky part 309 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,560 because it's you almost feel like you're in a losing battle. 310 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,680 Trying to defend yourself is a losing battle and so you've just 311 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,800 got to almost just cop it because I know, I know where I 312 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:53,040 understand where the hate almost comes from because there is like 313 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,680 at any occupation business, you know, there are some dodgy 314 00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,960 characters, there are dodgy characters out there. 315 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,400 And they can do dodgy things and things that I don't agree with, 316 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,400 but we are all recognised as secrets on it's, that's our 317 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,920 title. It's the same with any industry. 318 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,920 You know, you've got doctors out there who are gung ho and they 319 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,040 do things, you know, and like you're all up into the same 320 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,200 category. So I understand there's some 321 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:23,120 Cowboys out there and they give us all a bad rap, but it's 322 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:27,840 really terrible to be lumped into the same categories as 323 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,720 these people. And then we're left trying to 324 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,360 like literally fight for our lives and our own businesses to 325 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:41,360 try and help families understand or parents or mums, you know, 326 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:44,000 whoever is in, you know, reading the content and wanting to sort 327 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,280 of like that. We are, we're different. 328 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,840 You know, we are different. And yeah, you're not necessarily 329 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,480 grasping the idea of how we work. 330 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,240 And you may not need to, but there's absolutely no reason to 331 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,600 comment. There's scroll on like scroll on 332 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,480 scroll. On scroll on. 333 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,160 Scroll on. But do you know what the other 334 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,160 thing is? I think about this all the time. 335 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:11,400 Even my 4 year old knows that you can be upset but you can't 336 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:16,000 be mean and so we will never. It's an incredibly divisive 337 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,040 topic I feel. And maybe people listening might 338 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,040 think this is an exaggeration, but I think baby sleep is up 339 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,640 there with the anti vax. Movement. 340 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:30,320 Yeah, it is can be that controversial and that hateful 341 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,560 that that's kind of how I liken it in my head. 342 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,200 If you don't agree with my content, my scheduling, Beck's 343 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,640 recommendation on a lull adult there. 344 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,360 We are not for everyone. We are absolute and nor do we, 345 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:50,160 nor do we have to be. Our content is not for them. 346 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,520 Our content is for the people where it resonates, where you do 347 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,880 like that schedule, where you want to make change, where you 348 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,280 have read the research and you're feeling good, you are 349 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:03,520 looking for support. You can have a differing 350 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,360 opinion, but you can't be mean. And I think that's the aspect 351 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:12,600 that that gets to me and my heart is that people are so 352 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:18,320 mean. So, so mean and we are not. 353 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,160 And like I said, there's been many times when I've wanted to 354 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,920 absolutely stop. I've had to delete the app and 355 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,520 just work on TikTok Studio. So I don't see the comments 356 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,640 coming in because otherwise my work will stop and I don't, I 357 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:37,280 don't believe in that. I've had to lean on you. 358 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,920 That's the other thing. Solo sleep. 359 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,000 Can we do solo work? You and I are now attached at 360 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,600 the hip 24/7. Don't ever leave me, Beck. 361 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,360 That's what I will burn it all to the. 362 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:55,480 Ground I'm sorry I but but I think we need each other. 363 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,320 So even as a nurse, I might have had a bad shift or bad something 364 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:05,040 is upset me, a sad case. I can go into the tea room and 365 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,720 there's a room full of nurses. If I want a second opinion, I 366 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,840 can call the doctor. I can get allied health, I can 367 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,720 get out the textbook and do it with a preceptor. 368 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,840 You and I don't have that. And I think that's part of where 369 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,520 the cowboy aspect comes in is that we're all just doing our 370 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,640 own thing. But it's really lonely. 371 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,640 It's really lonely work sometimes and we have to be able 372 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:34,160 to support families during really tricky, emotionally 373 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,760 vulnerable times. And we love that aspect of our 374 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,200 job. In order to do that, we have to 375 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,840 look after our selves as well. I will also say, and I'm certain 376 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:50,040 Ben is the same Kade. My husband is #1 supporter and 377 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,120 has literally held me while I've sobbed about someone saying that 378 00:23:54,120 --> 00:24:00,600 the only reason my son says I love you is to get proof back 379 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:06,280 from me that I love him. That's really sad. 380 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,760 It's really sad. Where do people come up with 381 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,720 this? I don't. 382 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,840 I don't know, but it's devastating. 383 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,480 So that's you and I that we don't have babies anymore. 384 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,560 You and I are not particularly sleep deprived outside of them 385 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,520 probably being up at night thinking about these 386 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,720 conversations. So then knowing that other 387 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,280 women, parents who are struggling and really tired, we 388 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,280 are talking about the most precious possession in your 389 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,840 life, your baby. And I think when people start 390 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,920 banding around attachment and how terrifying that can be and 391 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,800 the idea that sleep training will break that, I think that's 392 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,840 where they play on that vulnerability. 393 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:47,400 Yeah. And that fear. 394 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,200 And I think that there are a couple of reasons that fuel 395 00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:54,280 this. One is I don't think people know 396 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,160 what sleep training is. I think, or rather, I think a 397 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,680 lot of people in the comments don't know. 398 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,120 Yeah. They think it is purely the old 399 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,360 school cried out, which is put your baby into bed at bedtime 400 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:09,040 and do not go back in until the morning. 401 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,040 Like a full 12 hours of staying out of the room, 12 hours, but 402 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,440 what's going on in the room? Yeah. 403 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,880 And then probably during the day for naps as well. 404 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,080 So I think there's a huge amount of misinformation. 405 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,600 We we don't do that. Like, I don't actually know 406 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,120 anyone that really does that. Yeah, I would agree with that 407 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,800 100%. I then think that you can never 408 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,600 win. We've also we actually put this 409 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,040 out on our nap trap stories about have you ever felt shame 410 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:42,640 or hate and I mean surprise surprise, people absolutely 411 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,400 have. It's not just you and I. 412 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,880 And then on the flip side, 1 mother actually said I've been 413 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,880 shamed for not sleep training when I wasn't ready, which hurt 414 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,080 just as much. And I just think, case in point, 415 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,520 our parenting choices, we will never win. 416 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,280 You cannot win. You can't win you. 417 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:04,720 Can't. So do what's right for your 418 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,880 family in an informed way, because we can't win. 419 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:15,960 And I think it's at the most emotionally vulnerable time in 420 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,480 your life, you know, and having sleep deprivation and having to 421 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,240 make choices and being influenced by those around you 422 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,280 and their opinions and theories. And you're wanting to do the 423 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:35,480 absolute very best. But your choices are, but they 424 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:36,800 are. They're influenced by. 425 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:45,040 Imagine being so sleep deprived and on the verge of losing it 426 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:51,840 all and choosing not to sleep train because your sister in law 427 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,080 has mentioned to you that it's going to impact your attachment, 428 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,160 your child's attachment, and you would never want to do that. 429 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,680 But meanwhile you're on the floor in a heap in the bathroom 430 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,240 crying. You're struggling to play. 431 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,360 Struggling to engage? Can't feed yourself. 432 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,320 Struggling to feed the baby? Yeah. 433 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,360 Relationships are falling apart. You know, you're going back to 434 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:20,280 work in six months time, everything is piling on and and 435 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,440 because somebody doesn't realise how sleep training can actually 436 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:31,240 look and there's like an I will always think about what if the 437 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,760 sleep training wasn't actually about using a sleep training 438 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,960 technique at all? This family just needed to get 439 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,160 onto a four hourly feed schedule and everything locked into place 440 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,520 from there. An increased tog in their 441 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,760 sleeping bag. Yeah, it's like not feeding to 442 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,080 sleep at bedtime. And then organically, it all 443 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,920 improved 1 aspect because I think what families are missing 444 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:01,560 the point of is that when you have sleep consultants like us 445 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:06,800 who are looking holistically at families sleep before we create 446 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,240 a plan, we are pinpointing the exact, we're assessing 447 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,280 everything to pinpoint the exact reason why there's a challenge. 448 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,280 And that is different for every family. 449 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,800 Yeah. Yeah, the reason is different 450 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,440 for every family. And so it's not necessarily all 451 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,880 about sleep training. Sometimes it is just about an 452 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,160 aspect that you might have overlooked or you weren't told 453 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,440 that you have to up the size of the teat as baby grows and 454 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,880 you're still using a newborn tea and baby is 7 months old. 455 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:43,000 These are the types of things that we find along the way that 456 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,320 improves sleep just by making small switches and improves 457 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,720 sleep no end. But you know, making content 458 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:56,040 about that doesn't get the same traction that sleep sleep 459 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,160 training ruins your baby's attachment gets on social media. 460 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:04,760 The the nuance of the way that we work is boring content for 461 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,920 the algorithm. And so I think the fear based 462 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,240 content online is where the message just spreads faster. 463 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:18,160 We see it in politics, we see it in anti vax, we see it in in 464 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,400 baby sleep. And I remember, you know, our, 465 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:26,880 our like guru, that sleep doc, he was talking about how that 466 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,320 sort of thing just gains traction so much faster. 467 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,840 But also it does play on a vulnerability. 468 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,120 And those voices are often the loudest. 469 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,000 It's the quieter ones that just sort of plod along doing good 470 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,000 work that don't really take off because they haven't got some 471 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:49,240 explosive revelation that's usually based on misinformation. 472 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,680 We're not using fear based content. 473 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,440 No, that's true. I've some accidentally made rage 474 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,440 based rage rage bait before. I remember I made it at the 475 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,520 hairdresser and I was like, oh God, got to put something out 476 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,720 today, you know? And so I just feel myself 477 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,920 sipping my coffee and I've wrote and I actually, it went back out 478 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,160 this week saying sleep training. I just written on it. 479 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,200 I don't actually say anything. Sleep training doesn't teach 480 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,960 your baby you're not coming back. 481 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,240 It just teaches them how to fall asleep and stay asleep 482 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,800 independently. Yeah. 483 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,600 Oh, that nearly broke me. But I had put my phone down. 484 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,960 I was like, OK, great. Done my social content for the 485 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,360 day. Off the cuff, accidental rage 486 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,080 bait. But here's the other thing that 487 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,080 I noticed. Sorry to cut you off. 488 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:45,840 No, they'd be like, you know, 1.5000 likes and 300 comments, 489 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,800 maybe 150 of those I hate. They're very loud. 490 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,360 But the likes they significantly outweigh which is like the 491 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,080 silent. I agree with this. 492 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,280 But they're quiet about it and that's fine, you don't. 493 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,960 Nobody has to be loud. But one of the ways I coached 494 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,440 myself through the absolute horrific comments that I got, 495 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:11,000 most of which TikTok itself screamed and hid from me, is, 496 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,840 oh, they're just quieter. I actually have more more people 497 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,360 in agreement with these but the main ones are so much louder and 498 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,280 it feels so personal. Yeah, that. 499 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:30,000 I mean, see, to me, oh, I think I just went too close to my 500 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:37,640 bike. To me, that would I would I, I 501 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,440 could never have posted that I I would have sat in that chair one 502 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,520 I would never have posted myself like in a Cape and a 503 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,320 hairdresser, because the. Obviousity where the Voldemort 504 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,920 came from. I've got my visiting Cape on and 505 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,680 no septum. But it was no symptom. 506 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,560 Oh my God I need to go and Google who Voldemort is now. 507 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:01,960 I'm sure the listeners will know. 508 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,720 Yes. The I would have second guessed 509 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:12,440 every single part of that, that messaging that you would have 510 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,160 put out like for me, for you to have been able to think about 511 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,160 that and then be like, great, I'm just going to put that in 512 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:23,200 there. The the level of security or 513 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,480 confidence you have within yourself and what you're 514 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,360 delivering and the messaging that you're trying to it is it, 515 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,240 it's confidence like that is confidence. 516 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,400 That one was blind naivety. I just know that statement to be 517 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:40,360 true and anecdotally and science backed, and so I didn't think it 518 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,840 was controversial at all. I think what also was the 519 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,680 trigger was that I was at the hairdresser solo without a 520 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,320 child, having a coffee, doing something completely for myself. 521 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,160 I think if I had been on the trampoline bouncing with my 522 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:02,160 children or lying on the couch breastfeeding, I, I think it 523 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,160 would be have a completely different message. 524 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,760 Wow. Compared to that's that's the 525 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,600 one where I was told I was dead inside. 526 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,880 I think because I was doing something for myself. 527 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,440 There's this whole perceived narrative that I've just like, 528 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,120 probably my children are crying and they're caught as we speak 529 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,400 and I've just left them at home by themselves, which I then 530 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,440 think there is an element to this sort of hate and shame and 531 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,760 guilt that is also a, and maybe I'm wrong. 532 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,760 These are just my, some of my working theories because I think 533 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:36,960 about it a lot, because I experience it a lot, is that 534 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,680 there's got to be some projection that people, 535 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,840 commenters are that tired themselves, that they're 536 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,120 convincing themselves that this is normal and that this is just 537 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,320 motherhood. Motherhood is martyrdom. 538 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,160 And Oh my goodness, how dare she be taking a moment for herself 539 00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:01,000 and she has chosen herself and sleep over meeting a baby's 540 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:06,000 needs 8 times before midnight, which is just not, that's just 541 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,159 not the case. That's a whole fictional story 542 00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:14,840 that's been made up. I I think fear as well. 543 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,719 I'm so scared of doing that, of ruining attachment. 544 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:24,199 I'm so scared of what the fear mongers say that I'm going to 545 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,400 project that as well so that I convince myself that there is no 546 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,480 other option but what I'm currently doing. 547 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,760 And I'm angry about my own situation, but I am going to 548 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,159 double down and make sure everyone understands how harmful 549 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:44,639 it is for you to sleep train because then I will feel better 550 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:48,040 about my own situation and holding tight on to not wanting 551 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,080 to do anything about it to improve it. 552 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,920 I will also say we experience shame from other sleep 553 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,120 consultants, which you know, we've talked about the odd piece 554 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,560 of misinformation. I think we talk about it 555 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,680 hopefully more in a, hey, we need to clear this up because 556 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,000 this is inaccurate. Rather than trying to take 557 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,120 somebody down. I have had other sleep 558 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:14,400 consultants stitch my content to tear it down and nearly always 559 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,720 is their gentle in their name or in their bio. 560 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,080 And I just can't reconcile those two things. 561 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,000 I'm a gentle sleep consultant, but watch me be so mean. 562 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,560 Yeah, and. Tear somebody else down another. 563 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,920 It feels like in the same industry who's doing the work 564 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,960 that I am doing, but in a slightly different. 565 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,080 I also think that sometimes the most hurtful part is that, and 566 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:45,000 this shocked me since and it to the point of you can never win 567 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,240 in your in your parenting and your mothering decisions is that 568 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,680 all of this comes from other women and other mothers. 569 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,080 And it's such a sad space. It's the opposite of the village 570 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:04,600 mentality to be taken down by another mother and another 571 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,680 woman. Yeah, I can't say that I've ever 572 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,880 had a comment from a male. Like, I mean, I don't expect men 573 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,960 to be looking at my content or anything like that. 574 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,760 And I'm certainly not big fry like you are in the social media 575 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,480 space. But yeah, the fact that it is 576 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,600 all mums and we're all doing our very, very best on this journey 577 00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:29,200 is. And then yeah, to to be told 578 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,720 such disgusting things. I'm I've definitely had comments 579 00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:36,560 from men. There's so often so many 580 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,280 comments that I don't even even see them all. 581 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,040 Like case in point, the I was tagged in that the ChatGPT I'm a 582 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,200 predator. Also, everything is free that 583 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,360 they're commenting on. Everything is free. 584 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,840 All of our social media is free. This podcast is free. 585 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,760 YouTube is free. Yes, we do also run our 586 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,840 businesses and make our livelihood through it for those 587 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,720 that are wanting to take it the next step. 588 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,800 But otherwise there is so much free content out there that 589 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,400 there is nothing predatory in that, or at least I would like 590 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,200 to. To think that I think that the 591 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,600 core message is that there is no winning in the eyes of the 592 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:22,480 Internet, that I don't think that you're a better mother for 593 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,200 how your baby does or doesn't asleep. 594 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,760 There are no awards. You can make change at any time. 595 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,080 There is comparison also the thief of the thief of joy. 596 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,040 We know this about everything of like, oh, my baby talked before 597 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,480 or didn't talk before that baby. Oh they've been toilet trained 598 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,480 earlier or later or didn't ride a bike until 5 whereas my first 599 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,680 child did it at 3:00. Your baby slept through the 600 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,280 night and he had to sleep train. He baby didn't sleep through the 601 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:54,680 night and you need to sleep train. 602 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,640 It does. There's no awards because we 603 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,480 will never win. You just need to do what's right 604 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,160 for your family and take it as it. 605 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,520 Comes I'm a big believer in that. 606 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:07,960 I do believe there are no awards and you have got to match the 607 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,920 beat of your own drum and it's OK to disagree and to not be on 608 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,160 board with every new fandangly thing that comes out or options 609 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,040 that are available to you. But like you said before, you 610 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,040 can disagree but you can't be mean. 611 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,280 And I think that that is such an important value to uphold, 612 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:32,680 especially as growing adults. Yes. 613 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,760 And so even if if I mean back you and I disagree on some 614 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,520 things, we are not mean to each other. 615 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:44,800 I mean, I actually do. Yeah, yeah, I know. 616 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,320 I'm just trying to think. Do we actually just. 617 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:47,840 Oh, yeah. On Biscuit Choice? 618 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,360 Absolutely. Do we disagree? 619 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,160 But I'm not going to be mean about your arrow route. 620 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,160 I'm just going to leave you to it. 621 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:02,640 I will scroll on. I think this was a good a good 622 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,280 chat. And I think this is where we 623 00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,880 want to take nap trap. We want to have a few more 624 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,120 discussions because Becky, you and I, we think a lot of things 625 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,280 behind the scenes. We coach a lot of families. 626 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,800 Three things that I think unless you're living it, you don't know 627 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,480 that that reality is, is possible. 628 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,800 If you've had a great sleeper, if your mental health hasn't 629 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,600 been affected by postpartum, if you haven't had a baby, Nick, 630 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,760 like all of these things you and I see often the other end of the 631 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,680 spectrum. And there is Support, Solutions 632 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:46,080 help no matter where you are in your baby sleep experience and 633 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:51,640 and not enough, you know, even me saying it'll never stop. 634 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:57,360 But the shame, the criticism, the hurt is is a lot. 635 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,720 And we feel it, and we know you feel it too. 636 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,880 And I think it was a really important discussion to have 637 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,760 today. I'm so glad that we got to open 638 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:12,400 it up and to share our journey of how we start to overcome the 639 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,640 comments that come our way, the hurt that comes our way. 640 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,760 We I don't think we'll stop. We'll never stop. 641 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,160 No, we won't stop. We won't stop. 642 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,240 We might stop. I think that this is probably 643 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,800 the podcast has been great for me because it's a space where I 644 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:30,360 can openly discuss things on my terms and I'm people are going 645 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,440 people like scrolling past the podcast. 646 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,040 People are coming to us the the right people. 647 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:42,320 And I feel like my confidence is going to flourish a whole lot 648 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,360 more as we start having more open discussions, knowing that 649 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,280 this is more of a safe space for me and a lot of my walls will 650 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,040 come down. And I think that the listeners 651 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:56,120 will start to hear more about the way I feel about things and 652 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,840 my thoughts on parenting and motherhood and babies and the 653 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:02,120 all the sleep and all the wonderful things that go along 654 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,840 with it. Because I've got a lot to say. 655 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,120 I can't wait. I actually can't wait and I'm 656 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,440 really proud of you because that sort of comment and to still be 657 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:18,680 here 12 years later, giving it another red hot crack at risk of 658 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:25,720 criticism is is so admirable. And I love hearing what you've 659 00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:27,960 got to say. And I hear more of it. 660 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,280 I have the privilege of hearing more of it behind the scenes. 661 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,160 And actually I was going to message you this morning after 662 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,800 we did our camps news roll call. There were lots of travel day 663 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,640 troubleshooting and I got I sat back and I was like, God, Beck's 664 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,080 good at this. Like this is her jam and 665 00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:50,160 watching you inflow is it is amazing. 666 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,680 And to think even when we started this podcast, you needed 667 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,920 a shot of tequila and your glasses on. 668 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,000 And here we are over a year later doing something that we've 669 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,720 wanted to do, which is really scary. 670 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,720 And actually it feels so much better to to have said it and to 671 00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:07,680 shed it. So thank you for the therapy 672 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,800 session everyone. Oh yeah, so good. 673 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,960 I feel lighter. I actually do feel lighter. 674 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:14,960 I feel like too. Yeah. 675 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,400 You know what? It's nice to have a back story 676 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,960 to people, I think. And it makes you feel like you 677 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,960 can understand their jam a little bit more or why they 678 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,400 behave a certain way or how they're so good at some things 679 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,680 but not the greatest at others. And I think the understanding is 680 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,560 there. And. 681 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,800 And from here, we make it flow. I think we just. 682 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,000 And that we're humans and women and mothers on the other side of 683 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,720 those comments, and it still hits US. 684 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,360 Yeah, it does. And I think maybe there might be 685 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,640 a anytime we have something like, whoa, that was that was 686 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,960 pretty intense in terms of comment wise, we might 687 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,160 incorporate it. Maybe we need to like get in the 688 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:56,120 bin? Of the week. 689 00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:04,520 Section in the bin you go snap blot 2957-J with your with your 690 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,480 comments. Oh yeah, well, it might be like 691 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:15,240 a maybe it's a a challenge to I've got to open up my my social 692 00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:17,280 media a little bit. More Let's get back to the 693 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,320 social. So that I start getting the 694 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,800 comments of like who do you think you are? 695 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,160 What a terrible like if I get those that I know that I'm 696 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:26,520 actually. Here. 697 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,400 Then you really have to go with Oldham audience. 698 00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,800 Yeah, yeah, you know, you've hit the right side of baby sleep 699 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,200 talk. Don't worry, I'll create a 700 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,120 burner account and I'll just go in and fight the good right for 701 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,000 you. All right everyone, this was a 702 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,200 great session. And also we're really curious 703 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,560 like, how does this land for you? 704 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:47,680 Did you know that this is what it was like? 705 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,080 Have you experienced this? I think it's a really great 706 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,840 conversation that needs to be ongoing and we are so here for 707 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,600 it. We will see you on the next 708 00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,000 episode of Nap Track. See you later. 709 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,200 Team bye.