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They do not show behaboral the 
pression they do not show what 

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we call negative affect they 
don't show bad emotions the only

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why the you can tell of we're 
some controll as being us is the

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two notas one is stimulasis 
present it in x behabor last 

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like we to a card and when it's 
take in AI im expehator more 

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like we to a card and i have i 
have a very interesting 

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experience because and a form. 
Where it was not going to be a 

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popular message. 
I get a präsentation about a 

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person control. 
Welcome back at another Episode 

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of Kynotalk bei Kynotalk. 
And again i have a new guest 

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this time obviously again in 
english so. 

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Auf English ja ononglee ononglee
a possible.de.de fair 

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lompleline.de vue en francais 
oder on deutsch auf Deutsch. 

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Schöne compronpa ne lets just 
talk English. 

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Ok, ok, I'm going to I'll drop a
little german and french and 

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have you now to get just. 
For shore, just for. 

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You just to you try to make 
people thank I'm smart and also 

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to try to really to your viewer.
You are Franco Phone or German 

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Speaker. 
For shore for shore, so actually

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that's a cool thing or a 
listening community is growing 

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and also moring or a people from
french speaking. 

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Countries are joining so we see 
this in the statistics and 

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obviously is we have the we have
the bias that french people also

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italians what not like to learn 
english because they just are 

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very proud of the ron culture 
and language, but i see the 

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younger generation obviously is 
changing is interessed in other 

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people, speaking in other 
language is so there. 

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More and moralcoming in to our 
show. 

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I am's very interest is biging 
other language is unfortly. 

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I am there's stupid in language 
is so what language is I've 

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learn i have forgotten but i 
tryed. 

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The upiesly a few of us and i 
think your and i will. 

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Introducion in a minute, you're 
one of do's people who obviously

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understand a lot of the language
of dogs and keynines so it will 

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be very interesting to to go 
with you through the question 

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there and some of the topics to 
do such just it yourself, so now

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for the business, you're already
hurtim the man of the hour dogs 

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is do it hilliard i hob but 
pronouns your Sir name correctly

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we met. 
You weeks of you monster go when

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i had the pleasure of being 
invited to loss to california 

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centurosa at Michael Ellis, 
place bei Cameron Ford, and we 

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we went for dinner one day with 
all the guys you you when there 

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because you had the big 
symposium, the the canology 

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symposium that last it for a 
wecore something 5 days. 

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And i was just air happy in off 
and lucky in off to to meet you 

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and allist lead to find out 
about you for sure you're name 

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has been listed and present hear
and there when i was talking to 

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friends and kollegs from all or 
europe and from the us but 

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interesting in off i or 
obviously my education. 

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So far has been more to european
trainers, so if been after 

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european Trainers and not bad 
much in the us working dog 

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community accept of Cameron 
because i god to learn about 

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team from the podcast and and so
one so I've try to find out more

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about yourself. 
Sins I Thot the first morning of

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chronology that i was able to 
this and because then i have to 

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catch my flight back to europe 
and was very interesting and i 

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already. 
For Oh you II forgot it you came

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the part of the Symposium i's. 
Go Yes II choit and choit the 

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the first morning and for sure i
already could pick some of the 

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the the things that michael and 
you. 

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00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,280
You at presented there also 
style of presenting that i 

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thirties very interesting and 
some some of the informations 

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and and use i phot of verry. 
It's you here the cursing. 

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I love but about you a love. 
Of a cursing. 

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At the General really so feel 
free the curs in all language is

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that you know. 
All try to keep a clean sobal 

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sobal. 
So that was that was a coolfing 

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no realian choi that and axually
already i like the the the road 

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of paper that you put on the 
world just to all kind of notes 

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there and and to to summarized 
to the questions of of the 

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audience and also to to at some.
I don't know what els you that 

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true out the week, but i i'm 
already copy that and i just 

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start to to at workshop. 
To hang on my my portable 

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whiteboard and and people 
kutchers at some questions in 

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the breaks and and sharers on, 
falls so that we would not it 

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los them for out the the 
progress, but that's not the the

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point so i didn tick me long, so
i found this introfers of 

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00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,600
yourself at Kane and Training 
system so i will. 

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I will also for dislink to to 
the show notes and of corse i 

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did not just read about you on 
the web. 

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I also listent to the podcast 
that you did all radials with 

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Cameron and i I've all that's 
very interesting because believe

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it all not you're in you're in a
very good shape, but you do this

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longer that i'm old so and 
that's that's so impressive so. 

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It it's. 
It's it's one of my messages up 

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if you if you for get be for in 
raption you it's one of my 

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00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:51,680
messages about dog training is 
that if one treats it not just 

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as a physical skill, but also a 
right of engaging in electually 

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in a very diffical and deva like
something that that's part to do

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i if you engage it with it in 
electually it's something that 

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you can develup in. 
A cross suspend of your time and

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neverlus interest and you're 
participation and you're 

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interest in Dogs. 
It may change it probly will 

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change, but it's something that 
compelled me first compelled me 

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one i was about tony y'ars all 
and it's still compelled me and 

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that's one of the things that 
that i tride to get a cross to a

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special. 
The junger people who are 

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interest in and Dogs. 
Is it, this is something that 

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can norish you for out your 
life? 

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It's something that you can 
state interested and you can 

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devela personal. 
You can devela physicaly and you

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can devela in olexually is for 
and interest in dogs and that's 

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what i call what i do kind of 
logy it's because it's go a 

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hobby it's a part of my identity
and it's something that's form 

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me and it's person of me what 
chalages and defits and sexes 

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and all kind of things and i 
still one a do it you know what 

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is some i do it? 
Well, it's it's a wave if it's 

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like me know lifestyle. 
It's it's a lifestyle and and 

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it's a it's a life on calling. 
I don't know if you're viewers 

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will know what we mean in 
English by calling, but 

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friendsance people who are 
religious or called to 

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there'rocation it's something 
that they that they feel 

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committeed in terms of there's 
spirit to doing and some times i

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feel a third of a calling in my 
interest in dogs. 

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And it's mic sense that mic 
sense at at lies at lies for 

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meed does and you will 
interested right bevor and who 

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are liesn as are. 
But that's the. 

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For for a second, so for sure i 
don't know all of them, but i 

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00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,360
but i know some of of different 
backgrounds or with different 

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00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,920
backgrounds and mostlisteners 
are obviously from german 

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speaking countries, so Germany 
Austria. 

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Switzerland but also is guten. 
Tag Allah, Allah, Sportfreunde 

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und und Hundespecializen. 
Verinize verinize and also what 

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people from from USI think I 
think US is listed third place, 

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it's like germany's witzaland 
US. 

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Oh so, i was wondering about 
that i if a lot of other 

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00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,560
american's what's see this surfu
with be stricklay stricklay 

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00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:36,240
you're PN kraut. 
No no and since if also invited 

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00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:43,800
not only cameron, but pat nolan 
and dan from Australia, pat 

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00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:49,040
steward and and and. 
Oh dem it if for got the his 

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collix name. 
Ja, das gefällt mir auch. 

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Ja. 
Oh man, but i do a nevermind, 

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nevermind and of course people 
from various im European country

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so i love to see how how to 
community is growing and and 

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these people are from agencies 
so there from the working dog 

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00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:17,120
side, military or police there 
from customs, but also from the 

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00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,960
sports world. 
Sins for example, Chris my 

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00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,920
kolleg at the company, his 
origin was in Dog sports so was 

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00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,680
Mine Mine was in the Rescue, Dog
Sport and beedians his was in 

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00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:37,680
schutzhund and igp and so i 
thing there is the big group of 

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business and also from regular 
dog trainers like pet dog 

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00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,400
trainers or companies like hours
who tryed to. 

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Locate themselfs in in this 
market of of Training, working 

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00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,680
dogs and corporating with 
agencies, but also with the 

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civil site and also if you in 
German, i call them 

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00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:05,640
anspruchsvolle Hundehalter. 
Was White US auf Englisch. 

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00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:10,960
That that means anspruchsvoll 
means oh them it, i have to i 

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00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:20,800
have to look to up. 
In english that means chalenging

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00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:25,040
or demanding pet ones, but not 
in a in a negative way so they 

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00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,840
they really one and they 
there're not haveing in noth 

151
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,520
with just a reading of you books
about how to to make the dog 

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00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,160
clean and and clicker training 
they want to find out more and 

153
00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,040
what what what abilities dogs 
have and how want we can in for 

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00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,440
them and i think. 
That's a in english in English, 

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we call is people series. 
It's the we're us series series.

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00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,320
It's a series that's on 7. 
One i like to german better 

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00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,840
challengeing i like i like. 
Yeah because they challenge 

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00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:02,960
there trainers right and they're
not stoping askinquestions and. 

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00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,440
And they challenge them sells, 
which is a refrains to what I've

160
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,920
a minute go you know, it's what 
that's what it is about dogs and

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00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,480
dog training is it challenges 
you if you engage me that. 

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00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,160
It challenges. 
For for. 

163
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,880
And if you for try hard, you 
develop and if you bekommen 

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00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,400
technicly good, you're dard of 
elops to. 

165
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:27,680
So you've start it quite early 
as IA learned and being a dog 

166
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:30,960
Trainer also training a 
schutzhund club what is funny 

167
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,680
for rust that you that you guys 
call the schutzhund and not just

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00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:39,040
protection dog so you you're 
when with the german you then 

169
00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:43,760
translate but sons good. 
So, the funny think is when we 

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00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,920
german speaking people talk 
about the American schutzhund we

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00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,600
have and tright to pronocit like
americans to so it's it's not 

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00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,280
german pronociation. 
And we we all of all of US. 

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00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,360
I don't know it's still the 
case, but when i begin in dogs 

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00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,120
for we, i identified very 
haveely. 

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00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:08,320
With the german Aspekt of this 
german form of Dogs Board, so we

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00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,560
tride the learn the language of 
cors. 

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00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:15,120
We call the shithon because it 
was it was an item of european 

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00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,480
culture, we we're acute the 
counches that it was european 

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00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,320
culture and we want to embrace 
the european part of it especi 

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00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,840
the sport france ship the 
attitude sorts the breeding of 

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00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,680
dogs, the preseration of the 
funkionality is dogs. 

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00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,440
Um so we that in just to side, 
we like the spor, we do side it 

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00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,440
that we'd like the european 
asbesti the german approach to 

184
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:44,000
to breading keeping and being 
responsible for and save 

185
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:50,080
guarding a bread of dos so of of
course like we we used. 

186
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,520
We us german commands we us 
german expressions on the 

187
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,080
training feel do's that i's who 
could learn is much training 

188
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:02,920
feel you know ausbildungsplatz 
deutsch do's your finance we 

189
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,200
learn is much german for the 
training feel is we go. 

190
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,120
That's impressive and you travel
to europe you. 

191
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,320
I think you right to train 
yourself and educate yourself in

192
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,760
Europe also you go to no to the 
french ring and Belgian Ring. 

193
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:22,400
I flirrend that you've be one of
the first if not the first. 

194
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,080
I don't know I think Cameron got
that in to my hit one of the 

195
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,920
first. 
If not the first people who 

196
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,120
imported belgion medanwar to to 
do us. 

197
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,360
I was in early, i was in early 
importer very smaller was of 

198
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,000
dogs, but i was in early 
importer. 

199
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:42,040
You're and that's that's haveing
a future impact obviously on the

200
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,280
in the working dog world in the 
sports world, but you're not 

201
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,360
only. 
A Trainer and and a dog 

202
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,960
enthusiast a canologist also 
your a scientist, so you're stud

203
00:14:54,960 --> 00:15:01,280
it a lot about this and i've you
can help me out now and and tell

204
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:05,840
allismers what you've been 
studing a parts from training, 

205
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,920
dogs and and really god your 
hands on the dogs because right 

206
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,720
now you're in charge of the 
militar working dog program. 

207
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:19,600
Is is it all i think. 
Ja, ja, ja, so so, all give You 

208
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,280
all give you my Bree for aogathy
How I got here i bekam 

209
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,720
interested I'd see my forstog 
and i tride the train i was for 

210
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,200
tener's all and i have the 
booking one Hand and I tok 

211
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,080
delicion the dog in the other 
and i trend and i tride the 

212
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:39,760
train the dog and then later one
i was about nine tener's all i 

213
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,000
talk my mother in two bying a 
german shapered dog. 

214
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:49,560
And we bod a german shopper go 
from a german brida, a brida, a 

215
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,440
german shopper dogs from the as 
we a germany i've back to the 

216
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,080
acurion topage so my for stock 
was acurion topage from from 

217
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:04,880
Carl fillers breeding ok and a 
really a really good dog and so 

218
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,360
in between twenty years ofage 
and thirty years ofage i Train 

219
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,720
professionaly i train Pet dogs i
trained in Clubs. 

220
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,480
And also i was trained a 
breaking to police dog training 

221
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,720
and being a professional and 
sofort and then but it the 

222
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,760
sametime II so the one of they 
will the story i was tell is and

223
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,680
my backhard so from all the bike
work i did with dogs and I'm 

224
00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,080
very toll and kind of them and 
not very strong. 

225
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,000
I so so my backstarter to Herd 
I'm not in the last. 

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00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,200
I can't do this all my life you 
I know you is my brain to make a

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00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:43,000
live. 
And also i bekam Interestid and 

228
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,440
Behaviour one. 
I was a little kid i want to be 

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00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,800
a that or narian and so was 
interestent so allogy and 

230
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:54,080
biology and sofort and then one 
i was and i really twonies I'd 

231
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,320
bekam much one interestid and 
behaviour. 

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00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,080
And also where of my wigness is 
as i student like organ at 

233
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,160
chemistry was a problem and 
cauculus was also operate so it 

234
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:11,119
was is your for me to go to 
school as a psychologist and 

235
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,560
when i was about thirtears of of
age i want to grady with school 

236
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,640
which is. 
The way are system works as you 

237
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:23,119
get an under you go a high 
school and then you're finish 

238
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,560
high school and your bateeners 
all then you go to on under 

239
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,760
gragio it. 
University or College and you's 

240
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,160
the get a two or for you're to 
be and then if you're locky and 

241
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,760
and you're workard you can get 
in to agradio a programm in my 

242
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,280
kase was agradio a programm for 
psychology and so i when there 

243
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:45,920
for a here's because i was think
in my time and then no what i 

244
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,320
one of the be one i go up and so
i want to the psychology agradio

245
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,360
with school at the University of
Texas at Austin. 

246
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:59,280
And what the eventually put on 
my diploma behavioral nuro 

247
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,640
science, so that's Behavioral 
nuro Science. 

248
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,040
What just just a fancy Trump for
studing the learning of animal 

249
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:12,600
so i got a phd in the learning 
of animals in about nineteen 

250
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,840
nine year and a medity one for 
to work for the us government in

251
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,360
a working out program for as a 
reserture. 

252
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,960
And then later as it do you're 
not a transitions. 

253
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:29,600
I can what i call a production 
guy so for many years, my job is

254
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,880
not bin to do scientific 
research is just bin the produce

255
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,120
dogs to to make dogs for the us 
government and then this is the 

256
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:41,280
point it which i just say. 
That i apeer here in my private 

257
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:45,760
capacity, i do not represent the
positions of the policies of the

258
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,680
us government in anyway, i just 
represent my on personal 

259
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,920
opinions on in the topic what's 
so every and what i do right now

260
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,440
was i're going to breading 
programm for dod to per do is 

261
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,000
walking dogs for the military 
and then also i'm quite active 

262
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:06,960
and what we in englisch call a 
side hustle what is basicly 

263
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,400
taking. 
Providing high quality agication

264
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:18,000
about learning and behavor to 
series kunalog and and dog 

265
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,760
trainers and enthusias like 
yourself and other people hopely

266
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:25,120
around the world and so what i 
try to do is to bring some 

267
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:29,480
objektive objektivity and some 
science and some perspektive to 

268
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,160
many subjekts that interest all 
of us that have to do a dogs 

269
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,600
training the FX of dog training 
the FX of valfare. 

270
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,880
The FX of Walking Dogs, the FX 
of Company Dogs, the technical 

271
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,960
practices of Training Dogs so 
fit in to what in English, we 

272
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:52,640
call the invalues that they must
behaviory in order to be what i 

273
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:58,880
call joyful and joy, bringing 
for the owners and for mamers of

274
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,880
society of mamers of our of our 
society. 

275
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:09,360
Ok, and we will get. 
Kloser into the topic of your 

276
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:13,640
side hustle that i think you 
also share with michael and and 

277
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:19,400
forest first of what to ascue 
the the shortcut dod what's that

278
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,600
about what does that mean? 
Oh, I'm sorry Department of 

279
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,960
Defence. 
Ok, that's the dod. 

280
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:32,000
Ok, ja, ja, ja, Grate Grate what
i what i read like about your 

281
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,800
selfy about you is. 
I don't know you know people 

282
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,600
people are haveing to of. 
There's first impressions when 

283
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:45,360
when meeting so i think we have 
some nice short chats and when 

284
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,840
being at the at the dinner but 
that's. 

285
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,840
What was, it's was some peru and
or's. 

286
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,280
I'm. 
In America but was reading was 

287
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:02,400
reading, I'm good beer 
unfortunity ice the ice Shop was

288
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:09,680
closed, I remember of the what's
what i like the watching the 

289
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:16,480
videoclips that michael has just
shared when you're decoing his 

290
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,800
his young dog. 
So you're still doing this 

291
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,200
you're not just and leaning back
and playing the the professor 

292
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,800
and and writing books which is 
impressive but you're still line

293
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,920
on the ground and and and 
enforcing a full grip and and 

294
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,240
and playing and screaming and 
trank to do to do the veripest 

295
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,160
how not do you enjoyed is or why
or you still doing this. 

296
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,520
That's like aski me why starter 
go. 

297
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:55,160
The same reasons part of it is 
part of it is the connection to 

298
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,840
the dog that you have when you 
participate with the dog in 

299
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,400
conflicts and when you work with
the dog to make am strongger and

300
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,320
when you work with the dog to 
manipulate his muts and ttm how 

301
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:13,560
to use his muts part of it is 
the. 

302
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,040
The physical aspect of it it was
my at that export one. 

303
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:25,600
I was young to put on the sue 
and the orquad biting Dogs so II

304
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,640
do it for the sameries and i did
it before that's actually a very

305
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,200
diffical that's that's a 
profound question and a diffical

306
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,320
question to answer i get's 
alternity what the answer is it,

307
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,360
it is it, it's an expression and
my identity to. 

308
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:49,520
To engage with a dog, i don't 
know there all kinds of ways of 

309
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:56,080
geting close to a dog to have 
the dog you're like sid with you

310
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,600
on the couch and lush 
television. 

311
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,200
It's one way to get close to a 
dog i know the way to get close 

312
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:06,400
to a dog is to do engage to 
obidians we're you in the dog 

313
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,920
mic very close contact if you do
good we're. 

314
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,600
And another way to make very 
plus contact with the dog is to 

315
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:24,640
engage in a social conflict with
her and and i was like to i was 

316
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:32,000
like to. 
I think for me, no will II was 

317
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:38,640
not poting myself into the 
biding world for for. 

318
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,200
A long time because II just did 
out of things right i will i 

319
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:47,200
grue up i start it in the am 
surgeon Rescue Community. 

320
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,200
It's back them. 
I also worked as a paramedic for

321
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,000
the austrian red cross, we don't
have a paramedic system, but 

322
00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:00,680
it's the easies to translated 
and three at the years like out 

323
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:06,360
to know the chris who was also 
at the vienna police and and 

324
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:08,160
responsible for the dog training
there. 

325
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:15,040
And i if all was one to to no 
what it feels like to bing bing 

326
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:20,240
bitten right if and do is just 
there is leaf or in a in a in a 

327
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,640
suit, but i think it's a very 
interesting experience, the very

328
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:30,200
first few bites that you take. 
It brings you it brings you very

329
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,560
close to the dog and also it 
brings the dog very close to 

330
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,160
you, there's no and there's a 
few was a talk about it but. 

331
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,360
Many years a go, i have a 
conversation with a frended my a

332
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:48,080
french friend who's name, a 
jommichel morro and morro was a 

333
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,600
high level decoy who played at 
the cup of friends in the suit 

334
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,240
and i think the really adies and
he and i we're talking about a 

335
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:05,040
dog, a vico, the turonvets who 
was AA trumindesty part byder 

336
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:10,320
and also a dog who. 
Who dominated the on the tuck, 

337
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,160
the decor like it just the dog 
hat his way with you and and 

338
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,440
jomi shall to me of orfany story
because he was he was bitten he 

339
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,920
he findly hat is chance to work 
in a sue at the cup of France 

340
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,480
and he was ver exided and he 
train like he what running he 

341
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,920
did colomiters and is sue to get
a special submade it was his 

342
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,000
time, it was his they bue. 
He was you know, it was it was 

343
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,200
it, was is big dick and about a 
week. 

344
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:47,280
Bevor the Cop of France he was 
bitten in the back of the lower 

345
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,880
leg by a dog in training like a 
leash broken to dog came it bit 

346
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,080
the shit out of them and is 
lower leg and is for slot was i 

347
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,720
can't like and he but you know 
you know i i'm going to i'm 

348
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,360
going to work the trial and he 
right and so what he did is he 

349
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,640
win to a doctor you there new 
some about he what are he win to

350
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:09,440
a doctor and he at a small? 
But very hard cast put on as 

351
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,680
lover like I'm about here is 
what we call the cast in English

352
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,360
right it at a versmol cast put 
on that part of is like and he 

353
00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:23,840
see the problem was that vico 
was so fast and have so match 

354
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,560
technic that he can by you are 
he one of the buy you and also 

355
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,440
in there's the the technic and 
the abilities of the of the 

356
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,120
french. 
Ring dekos the liz on the tack 

357
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,680
we're not as hilly the valpes 
there are now so really go dog 

358
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,440
could kind of dictate the turns 
and vicko was verifast verihard 

359
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,600
byding and he at a perfurplace 
to buy and all the the veri veri

360
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,800
best dekos could pervenhim from 
byding there and it just have 

361
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,760
and it be with the dog hit bit 
and Johnny shell and training 

362
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,920
and so we at a pertect that 
place. 

363
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:07,200
With a cast and then also he 
spent the entire passage of the 

364
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,800
dog on on the field and bike, 
we're trying to pervent vico 

365
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,400
from biding that particular part
of is like and he're cooled, not

366
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,160
vico that exackly with he one of
with them and he's that by the 

367
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:25,080
end of of vicos performance that
the cast was in a schritt around

368
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:30,960
he's ankle and and his and. 
And he's leg was bleeding, but 

369
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,360
what it as to do with are topic 
was that one virians to sing 

370
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:40,160
thing that the johnny shell 
satimy was there he pointing out

371
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:45,000
the differenz between a dog who 
as hard charakter a dog was 

372
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,360
strong charakter and a dog who 
as the fiskal constitution to 

373
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:53,960
byte hard there not the same 
things a dog who bytes very hard

374
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,400
as not that's a very brave dog 
and vice for us up what he sad. 

375
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:05,160
That dogs who like extremly 
hard, it's important that they 

376
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,560
also have strong charakter 
because they attrakt retaliation

377
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,480
from decois. 
Ok. 

378
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:18,840
Right because you can in cost to
the dog the dog by to on hidden 

379
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,520
equipment or the dog by to and a
thin suit. 

380
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,560
You feel it personally because 
you feel the power of the dog. 

381
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:31,320
And it hurts and you're a little
violen in merturn and the way 

382
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,480
you do with the dog and then if 
the dog as a small card of the 

383
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:40,400
dog as a sof charakter, it make 
them last and so jomy shells 

384
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,680
that you if you have it dog who 
but's really really hard he but 

385
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,720
of have carter big last people 
if he's not being general with 

386
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,960
dequis there and knock and to be
general with. 

387
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,840
Her that's very interesting. 
You i're i're was a verre 

388
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:59,120
percept of thing this i. 
And i wish it even do. 

389
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:05,200
Maybe some trainers will never 
have to or one to get that close

390
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:10,000
in this kind of work with dogs, 
but i think in a trainer 

391
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,320
education it would be the big 
thing to poot people in as you 

392
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,320
and. 
The mostian the Mostian portant 

393
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,240
thing I'm start in a up you, but
II person that as an interviewer

394
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,840
if you get me an idea, it's ok 
for me to go have a jump and it 

395
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:35,240
i think it's there the contax 
the emotional and the 

396
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,840
motivational contax in which the
algis working dictates the 

397
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,320
properties of is behave you so 
the doggis one thing one he 

398
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,800
words for pies of foo. 
The dog is something and tiraly 

399
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,280
different if it is a dog with 
strong strong motivations 

400
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,360
instinctive motivations at you 
endgates as motivations the dog 

401
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,520
is something i're really 
different, and there is a little

402
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:06,000
bit of a separation but twin 
those and dog training to work 

403
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:12,880
with dogs only in the lower 
registers up motivation. 

404
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,960
Versus the people who are custom
to and contable working the dogs

405
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,520
in all registers a motivation 
particular when they work with 

406
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,360
with dogs or a selective for 
some kind of work exackly 

407
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:33,280
maxsumize is the value of 
motivation and so for me II 

408
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,560
think everyone who works for 
dogs for have an IDA what a dogs

409
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:42,080
melfals like and to not be a 
frate of it, but also to 

410
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,400
respekted. 
But also they they should a 

411
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,280
custom them self to the dynamics
and the feelings of a dog when 

412
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:57,360
the dog is proberly being a dog 
and because then you don't 

413
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,920
really know the anno and so i 
think it's right important for 

414
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,160
you know just is you that i 
think it's important for people 

415
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,240
who one and no a lot about dogs 
all kind of Dogs? 

416
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,640
To and Kind of Do's Dogs in all 
ranges abolivation and one way 

417
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,520
to one kind of a dog in a verit 
of an state and you make be used

418
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,960
to is to do byte work with a dog
and get used to the dy name. 

419
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,600
It's get used to the feeling and
beginn to a plank yourself with 

420
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,800
the idea that that a dog is not 
just what in english, we call a 

421
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,440
for baby, i people have the hats
is they just one at pat a little

422
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,320
dog and they think. 
I and they a tribute you human 

423
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,080
feelings the dog and then they 
feel be trade by the dog of the 

424
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,240
dog do's something wrong, they 
they find there expectations of 

425
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,960
the dog disopoined II think if 
you and kind of the dog and 

426
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,160
allmus you understand the dog 
better and that also was is your

427
00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,280
to keep in mine that also you 
love this creature, it's an 

428
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,560
animal, the dog is an animal. 
You and. 

429
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,280
Not a person. 
And and this is something i say 

430
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:16,000
a lot II kind of say it every 
time i have the chance what is 

431
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:22,360
I'm a working Doggy II precate 
dogs for what they do i precate 

432
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:28,640
dogs some times for for 
abilities that are special and 

433
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,280
make them apropreat only for 
limited uses by limited 

434
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,880
populations a people technations
I've I've have to love the dogs.

435
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:45,600
But one think that it's import 
in the keep in mine is what we 

436
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,880
get out of or affection for 
dogs. 

437
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:55,160
If we look for the dog to return
are love at to be faful at to be

438
00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,400
fair at to be on selfish, not 
only will we be disappointed, 

439
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:05,360
but also we will be cool for the
dog because we expect sopting of

440
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:10,200
hemm of what he is not capable. 
And in away as we we're speaking

441
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:16,200
a min in to go, we're whataliate
the value in an emotional 

442
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,880
engagement with dogs is that it 
it's what we exercise about are 

443
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:29,360
self one we love of dog one we 
know that the dog mainot return 

444
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,920
the love in exactive the ways we
get it to them. 

445
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:37,360
You you you can't trusted dog to
be Facebook you can't trusted 

446
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,560
Dog to be fair you can't trusted
Dog to not follow impulses of is

447
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,000
on that my herd other dogs I'm 
are my herd people are other 

448
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,680
lifestock you can't trusted dog 
in these ways that you my trust 

449
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,840
a person home you love but when 
you when you love a dog 

450
00:33:53,840 --> 00:34:01,440
understanding what he is it is 
for yourself and extracise in 

451
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,360
developing. 
You're on a bill, it is as you'm

452
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,199
and be. 
And when you people don't like 

453
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,440
to to here this, but i think 
that as you discribed it, it 

454
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,040
makes a lot of sense what you 
would you say the dogs are 

455
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,800
opportunists. 
Of cours and. 

456
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,719
That's. 
And that's not a it's, it's a. 

457
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,960
I see no the the only the only 
thing i am an opportunus you are

458
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,440
an opportunus. 
It's fusure a. 

459
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:35,520
Person ofly both of as have 
ethical systems that give us 

460
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:41,719
pass that make us hazitate win. 
We contemplate taking at vange 

461
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,920
of an opportunity that will in 
frenjipon the rights of others 

462
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,480
the only thing at stops us from 
doing out or two things empathy.

463
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:57,520
And an ethical System based on 
Appathy II See no evanes of an 

464
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,240
ethical System and dogs with 
means that win they see an 

465
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:06,920
opportunity, they will see's the
opportunity in in my experience 

466
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,760
and win the opportunity a 
something that IA range for the 

467
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,360
dog to so the he seas is it. 
Then it can be very good for 

468
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,040
him. 
A can be good for a relationship

469
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,840
if the uped to the is something 
he seas is that is dangers for 

470
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,160
him or bad for him or dangers 
for mich or stressful for me or 

471
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,000
dangers or stressful for the 
human mixer all or animals of 

472
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:33,440
long and society that it's an 
upertooned that that up must not

473
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,720
have and they're two ways to 
controll that one of them is 

474
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:39,680
with perfect controll of the 
environment and the outing one 

475
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,600
is with good controll of your 
dog and motive is a complash. 

476
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,760
Responsible stewardship 
responsible ownership of our 

477
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,040
dogs but doing bothos. 
We controll out dogs behave your

478
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,200
and we also controll is much is.
We can the enviramment that are 

479
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,840
dog and kuners, but we seldam 
have perfect controll of the 

480
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,560
avano we just like we're must 
have very good controll of are 

481
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,040
dog aside from Predicting what 
are dog, willy will not do 

482
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,280
because not of us can perfectly 
predict what are dog, Willy will

483
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,280
not. 
Fusure. 

484
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,160
Fusure and controlling the 
environment is something that 

485
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:23,200
can't be like like this is sard 
of inolution that can be created

486
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,600
in for a pet dog or for a 
training, but fusure not in in 

487
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,520
deployment or i'm i geting 
you're rone. 

488
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,760
No, no, it's it's you can't have
in controller for a pet dog. 

489
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,480
So so we're something that will 
turn to in a minute is talking 

490
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,760
about the dialektic which is. 
What is in English word for on 

491
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,000
on going conversation like it 
the bey or argument, we're two 

492
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,680
points of view and the idea 
behind a dialektic is is not 

493
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,360
assessirally that it will 
eventually be souled like one 

494
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,680
side will be ride will be proved
ride or the other side will be 

495
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,520
proved ride, the idea is that 
the topic it self is it vance 

496
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,600
closer to truth. 
As a result of this, never in 

497
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,280
the conversation between two 
pretty, your reconsilable points

498
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,200
of you and so the dialektic and 
dog training right now as it is 

499
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:22,320
in all kind of of keeping of of 
domesticated animals is between 

500
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:28,680
the o so advicate strictly what 
i call a peditive behave or 

501
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:32,960
controll and a peditive is a 
fancy psychological word what 

502
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:38,400
stands for the use of. 
On the rewards and training, i 

503
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,640
they're busteling rewards, a pon
the dog or taking rewards a way 

504
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,720
aversive control. 
So, this is talking about and 

505
00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:48,880
positive reforcement and 
negative punisment. 

506
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:53,840
Go and then aversive control 
refors to the usive negative 

507
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,520
reforcement and positive 
punisment right and this or the 

508
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:02,000
fortings of we just discusted or
the standard continensies. 

509
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,360
In instrumental conditioning 
right that the the for proceders

510
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,480
that we can carry out, they're 
not forms of learning they are 

511
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:18,280
they are formal proceders based 
on probabilities of one of at 

512
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,880
and another that right and so 
the onguine dialektic is between

513
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,960
people who think that we shit us
only rewards and dog training 

514
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,760
and other people who think that 
we shit us and you think of 

515
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,440
alible to us. 
That is epicly defensible and 

516
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:39,720
also a proprie to the goals and 
can't be use walperserving the 

517
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:43,600
do's welfare that we see do is 
also toels in training that's 

518
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:51,280
the on going discussion and in 
in that respekt and and you are 

519
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:56,720
very well aware that that this 
dialekt has affected. 

520
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,360
The conduct of walking dot 
training but professional and 

521
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:06,640
amiture amiture Sport Training 
in Europe and it my also beginn 

522
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:11,360
to affected in Nordamerika is 
well, but the dialektic is very 

523
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,760
strong. 
The argum is very strong in the 

524
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,680
training of company dogs because
it's not just walking dogs at a 

525
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,080
strong motivations to do stop 
some pet dogs company dogs can 

526
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,320
have very strong bovations to do
stop that is e the stress will. 

527
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:32,000
Or economic lee damaging or 
dangers for owners for other 

528
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,120
members of society etc. 
And so, there is a large and a 

529
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:43,960
very vocal contention of of 
kindle logan and and kindle 

530
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:49,600
logas who's they very strongly 
that you should only us positive

531
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,320
rain forsment to train the 
stocks and it all you need the 

532
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,640
have is technic. 
And knowledge and you can get it

533
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,280
done. 
They based this very much on 

534
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,720
using proceders to at released 
in the beginning and for much or

535
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:07,840
training to exor very strong 
control of them ram. 

536
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:13,680
What means that if you have a 
that's just pick a little 

537
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:18,800
terrier, the ukeep is a pat and 
the lil terrier develops what in

538
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,680
englisch, we call leash 
reactivity with the doggos. 

539
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,240
Action eather two fear or 
aggression or peditory exigment 

540
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,080
when it see's another animal and
that's say that i'g as a lot 

541
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,400
threshold for frustration as 
well, so have to time when it 

542
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,920
go's at another animal. 
If you stop in with the leash, 

543
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,960
you turns or on a bites your leg
right so you have to just 

544
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,640
keeploting and do it. 
What what the first perscirption

545
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:52,480
from the pure positive Community
is is well you have to control 

546
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,080
the enviramet there a carefully 
and till you're ready for that 

547
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,920
situation and to you put all of 
the behavral tools in place and 

548
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:04,160
you're ready for that situation 
what here's the problem a lot of

549
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,560
people who have leasue reactive 
lutariers live rightnext other 

550
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,160
people who have children 
automobiles bicekals. 

551
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,240
Other Dogs etc. 
And they can out a complash the 

552
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:20,560
nasseserry in viraminal control,
they can't keep the nabors 

553
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,520
inside they can't keep children 
from showing up what have a 

554
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:30,240
problem is, they can't keep it 
from arize so so for me, it's 

555
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:33,520
not just in we're going dogs, 
it's a probre it to talk about a

556
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,880
verso control, it's also 
extremly probe it to talk about 

557
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,320
it in the contact so kimpendo. 
Because people have proms of 

558
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:45,040
companion dogs that runen, 
there's if they have there dogs 

559
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:52,400
and also runen the dogs lips and
some of this problems or what we

560
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:58,560
call intractable to solutions 
meaning, they can't he's leave 

561
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:03,360
be fix to solutions that all me 
will i on and varmanal control 

562
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,880
for long pieries so that posed 
reinforce my continues. 

563
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:12,800
And negative punishment 
continues is they are applyed 

564
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,360
will an of skill and passions 
can have the nesis. 

565
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:20,480
Ariufa and and there is one of 
the the big problems. 

566
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:25,200
I think this skills and 
knowledge of people who 

567
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:31,720
arealiable to applydos 
consequenes to dogs, so for 

568
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:34,800
example in Austria, it's we are 
have in a veristriced animal 

569
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:40,320
belfare law for. 
More then a they cate now we're 

570
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,600
not a lot a lot to us tools et 
cetera think with maybe even 

571
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:50,080
district is the animal will for 
law worldwide, i don't take me 

572
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:58,320
to to strict on that, but i 
think so axually so even not in 

573
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:03,200
police or military work trainers
are all out to use versive tools

574
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:10,720
but for sure. 
All do's the consequence is of 

575
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:18,160
the of the quadrance they work 
and they exist like the science 

576
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:24,160
is not coming with our law that 
when IA law as we you're on the 

577
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,000
a lot of two work with positive 
inforcement that the science in 

578
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,920
austria is like ok that we just 
go with two more quadrance and 

579
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,480
that's leved you are the once 
out i think the the problem sins

580
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,000
Dennis. 
Given that people or not able to

581
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:46,080
and not even like people for 
military police or or who ever, 

582
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:51,160
maybe specialized talk train is 
or not able any more to find out

583
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:55,840
about do's things without being 
in a grey zone talking about law

584
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:00,720
like being doing things that i'm
not a out to the figure out to 

585
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,400
understand things like that so. 
They're like in the humping 

586
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,960
community people or going abroad
to me. 

587
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,080
We to the check republic to 
attent in e color workshops that

588
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:15,080
are given by german Trainers who
basically live in austria, they 

589
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:20,160
have to go to the check republic
to to do the things and i it's 

590
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:26,000
not like i want to highlight the
the us of e colors or something 

591
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,760
because because of this last 
that are given people found out 

592
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:36,000
very. 
Stylish ways to to train 

593
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,920
powerful working dogs with the 
with everything that is given 

594
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:46,320
and the loud for sure there or 
things that are changing 

595
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,360
constanty also the style of 
training influences the 

596
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,840
selection and the breeding of 
dogs, so that's that's a big one

597
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:00,880
and. 
And we c d's changes in in the 

598
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:08,000
Dogs attitude in in the force 
and mentality, but of cours 

599
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,040
everything is changing, so i'm 
not against the changes self 

600
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:18,320
what i what i think is to make a
point, but i think is is so not 

601
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,920
even frustrading, but it's so 
sat that people are constantly 

602
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:30,000
trying to put the put the. 
The aversive site of control it 

603
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,440
sounds it sounds a little harsh 
aversive control sounds, it does

604
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,320
not sound, it's just a. 
Technical, it's just a technical

605
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:42,520
turk think of in in english the 
root to the word aversive is to 

606
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:44,680
a word, which means to. 
Turk. 

607
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:46,560
Right. 
That's so. 

608
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:50,560
One of words on's gay so so one 
way the think of aversive 

609
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,840
control is not that your 
callsing pain. 

610
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,200
But. 
That you are d Tour, you are 

611
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:02,360
calling the dop to turn away for
one behaver all upion in to 

612
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:08,160
another behaver all up and and 
the force, the nasseserry and 

613
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,320
and this is something if andy 
buty cares have a two in to one 

614
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,360
of my lectures or one of our 
kindalogy lectures one of the 

615
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:22,960
point someke is that the the 
mose use for definition of. 

616
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:28,280
On aversive is not how painful 
it is because we don't know how 

617
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:32,720
painful it is the mose usful and
the mose scientific definition 

618
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:38,480
of or aversive is something that
functions as an aversive meaning

619
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:42,640
that if you present it falling 
of behaviar, you will make that 

620
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,080
behaviar last vigar or last 
probible and future. 

621
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,680
Right if you take it a way of 
all on a behavar you'll find 

622
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,560
that behavar bekommen's more 
problem a long more vigers and 

623
00:46:53,560 --> 00:47:02,960
future will get what if you with
drawfood that the dog expecs 

624
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,480
have the dog in gazs and nackt 
that will have a punishing 

625
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,920
effekt. 
The Definition it meets the 

626
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:15,760
definition of an aversive Aside 
from how Pain Fall Andy of as 

627
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,520
Gas. 
About weather not in my beef for

628
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,160
the cocker spanial to not get a 
ps of who that it experts will. 

629
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:27,000
We can all a gree on if we truck
at carefully is it as a punising

630
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,280
effect on behavior and what i 
like to point out is it in the 

631
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:37,840
hands of good technations the 
levels of what i call he donic 

632
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,120
of us and so what i mean by he 
donic of us is. 

633
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,320
I'm he'den as them is the 
seeking applesure one. 

634
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,120
We're for that to he don't like 
vu you what or sang as what a 

635
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:53,160
stimulus feels like to a person 
or what a stimulus feels like to

636
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:59,040
a dog, the he don't like vu you 
of the stimulus do's not 

637
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:04,080
defined, we're not that stimulus
conwork as a punisher or 

638
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,040
reinforced, it's the function 
this important and when this 

639
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,320
bekomms really plan is when you 
see. 

640
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:23,410
A versive controll, they do not 
show behavioral Depression, they

641
00:48:23,650 --> 00:48:27,890
do not show what we call 
negative affect they don't show 

642
00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:33,370
bad emotions the only right the 
you can tell a versive controll 

643
00:48:33,370 --> 00:48:37,250
is being us is the two noters 
one is stimulasis present it it 

644
00:48:37,250 --> 00:48:40,610
max behavior last like the to a 
car and when it's take in a way 

645
00:48:40,610 --> 00:48:45,290
it max behavior more like the to
a car and i have i had a vering 

646
00:48:45,290 --> 00:48:58,840
to see experience. 
Because and i was i was want 

647
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,760
bevor hand that i was not be a 
pop is are talk and that i was 

648
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,840
have to the fin myself at the 
talk was over that people with 

649
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:11,000
this agree with me, i should 
video have to we look to the lot

650
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:16,120
of video and i concluded and say
and arthur and equestions people

651
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,240
dead and dead one argu is me do 
you know with they one or argu 

652
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:22,640
is me about? 
Like you know. 

653
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,120
They want to argue with weather 
what i was doing was really of 

654
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:32,840
ors of control or not the reason
they want to differ with me is 

655
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,560
that they did not see signs of 
software. 

656
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,480
And in there mined a versive 
control must be mark, but the 

657
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,920
presents of softring on the part
of the dog because they did not 

658
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,920
see softring they did not 
reckignice what i was doing was 

659
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:52,000
technically a versive control 
and i was very have be with that

660
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:57,440
outcome because what i think is 
this means that i can go to a 

661
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:02,880
conferts for people who practice
peerly positive dog training. 

662
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,360
And i can practice offers of 
control and a crowd of them 

663
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,080
outside with my dog and all they
will see is that my dog is happy

664
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,440
and he is taking foo. 
Yeah. 

665
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,520
That they will not see the avers
of continusies because they only

666
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,040
think of avers of continusies as
calls and soffering and pane if 

667
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,000
they do not see soffing and 
pane, they think it must be a 

668
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,080
posit or informes what or and i 
get pot of procedion. 

669
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,360
That's that's very interesting 
and i think. 

670
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:37,760
And III did the same so i was in
the same belief that and there's

671
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,280
only black and white you know so
when i learned about the 

672
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:46,200
quadrons what is a very nice so 
i have it in front of my innerer

673
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:51,320
i and i seeed and one a first 
learned about it for me was. 

674
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,920
For english speakers here, we're
faring to what's call the 

675
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,800
continuity square. 
There's that is only use as i 

676
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:04,560
teaching a by people with a. 
A behavior an nalasis with means

677
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:10,400
a skinarian behaviors ton of a 
backwell i the continuity square

678
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:15,440
is what we call that in English.
So it was idar or positive 

679
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,360
rinforcement positive punisment,
negative rinforcement, negative 

680
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:25,280
punisment, but it's not idar or 
there so many new onsis so i can

681
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:26,400
idar or. 
Hears. 

682
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,960
Here I'm so i go have go have 
go. 

683
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,840
II can i can just handover a 
treat a kibble or is liz of 

684
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:40,720
cheese or you know i can elevate
the the the value of the dogs 

685
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:45,680
reward i can also elevate the 
intensity of a punishment 

686
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,240
Punisher, so if i take away the 
talk this like have a bigger 

687
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:55,760
impact if i would like compared 
to just taking away the kibble. 

688
00:51:56,000 --> 00:52:01,280
Because maybe the dogs value is 
hire tors the talk order the 

689
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:07,880
kibble and the same goes for the
aversive technic of positive 

690
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:15,200
punishment, so it's not it's not
cruel you know it's like heaving

691
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:23,120
being able to to have a certain 
does on the consequence that 

692
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,680
that goes tors behaviod and this
is the. 

693
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:31,440
This is the part at we trainers 
need to need to understand. 

694
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,600
We need the skills we need the 
knowledge of how to does rewards

695
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:40,000
and how to does punishments 
because i think we can even make

696
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:45,120
batt things happen when doing 
wrong rewards elevating the dog 

697
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,240
for the roof having in german, 
you might even no this saying 

698
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:53,440
with a trieb macht dumm. 
With means like too much drive 

699
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,520
and the x drive and a stupid 
exactly and then the dog is not 

700
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,280
aable to learn aniting use for 
animore because they're just in 

701
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:05,600
the orbit of of of pleasure, but
maybe disturns and to 

702
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:10,240
frustration and then for it 
bekommen sie even punishing to 

703
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:14,960
the learner. 
Müde auch, macht dumm ja he 

704
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,800
because Win the dog is is 
physical is as it he also 

705
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,880
bekomme stupid II would an i 
would an argue that win the dog 

706
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,560
is highly motivatity bekomme 
stupid what i would say is that 

707
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,560
there's very much to in a fear 
with his performance, he maino 

708
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:35,120
exactly what he is a bos to do 
and be unable to do it because i

709
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:40,320
have an kive inhim the equipment
win, but win dogs are tired. 

710
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,640
You can't all mosay as it if 
they have strong motivation and 

711
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:49,880
they becom tired they becom a 
little stupid so and but still 

712
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,720
if the same think it's not the 
they for get what they should do

713
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:55,920
when there tired, but the 
firsting that goes is self 

714
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:59,240
control when it ages physically 
tired the firsting that goes is 

715
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:02,960
self control, not is knowledge 
what he spost to do not is 

716
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,800
memory of how to do it now 
that's up is ability to control 

717
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,800
um self and and do it is the 
firsting goes a wave and he 

718
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:15,200
stired. 
But you say a moment of go you 

719
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:22,320
so the broad up the saddelties 
and the new onses that are 

720
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,880
barryed with this in the 
continuity square, so the 

721
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:29,360
continuity square, it's very 
confusing to look at when somedy

722
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,400
take shoes for it and you 
finally master the fort of for 

723
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,520
continuies there's this feeling 
of like ok now i know every that

724
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:42,240
right like I'm got it all. 
It's only a beginning so that's 

725
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:45,840
look at a couple of the new ons 
as have in a do was so so one i 

726
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:50,800
talked about a versive controll 
in a petitive controll, there's 

727
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:55,200
are that's a way of segergating 
the for quaderance of the 

728
00:54:55,200 --> 00:55:02,640
continuity square and two two 
parers that used to the two 

729
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:07,360
different kind of simular right,
so you think ok, we'll if i only

730
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,880
work with food. 
Then I'm not doing andy think of

731
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,680
versip to the anno it can only 
be nice. 

732
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:16,440
I'm going to dock something nice
or i I'm take you a ways 

733
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,880
something nice or omiding 
something nice will get what one

734
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:26,080
of the benchmarks one of the 
depended variable that's us 

735
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:30,800
consisted like. 
In Studies of animal walfare in 

736
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:36,240
Studies of animal Stress etc. 
Is is in the form of measers of 

737
00:55:36,240 --> 00:55:43,440
cordical steroys, which are 
chemical agons that are a minute

738
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:50,400
to actions of the of the brain 
and the actions of the brain 

739
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:55,440
with assentialy can't be use if 
they're entropert a carefling of

740
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,760
as markers of stress. 
Well, it can be schon i have it 

741
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:04,200
us in papers on my desk that the
ramuval or the omission of a 

742
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:10,480
rebord we'll calls cortical 
spiroid elevations also if i 

743
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,720
have a think call of an omission
q that teles an animal that is 

744
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:19,240
not going to be rewarded i can't
us that omission q as an 

745
00:56:19,240 --> 00:56:23,440
negative information. 
So i if i have AQ for instance 

746
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,760
in a dog training contact, we 
can say it some people use the 

747
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:32,440
work wrong when a dog makes and 
a stak and the contincent that 

748
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:36,680
they're working with is if you 
don't me critering i don't 

749
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:41,120
reward you. 
There's like somephing like a no

750
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,120
reward marke or or. 
Korrekt, no Reward Marke. 

751
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,840
We'll get what a no reward marke
is an a mission q. 

752
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:52,480
It's it's a pevlovian in 
hibbaner that tels in animal 

753
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:56,240
something is not at something 
not nice is going to happer what

754
00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:02,640
happens win you get franceens in
in in American banks we get a 

755
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:07,840
state my thing that money as 
some of the as paders or they 

756
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:11,200
we're phots a paders is not 
going to be paders we get a 

757
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:15,680
peace a paper thank that i's 
check was not good you're not 

758
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,960
geting p. 
Just what that's a mission kup, 

759
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:22,400
that's you're not going to get 
pit no one like to see that's 

760
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:27,120
bis is a pag there don't do that
like to here no your wrong and 

761
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:31,840
get what i don't me to gast at 
that i can point to data from 

762
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,680
scientific laboratories that 
shows cordico steerright spikes.

763
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:40,200
In respons to a mission kuse and
also shows that animals will 

764
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,920
engage in instrumental 
responses, meaning valentary 

765
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:49,680
responses and order to getaway 
for a Mission kuse in not in 

766
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:54,160
instrumental contax, but in a 
pepplovian contax animals will 

767
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:58,960
with drawfrog omission kuse, 
they will put distance be twin 

768
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:04,480
them sales and a mission kuse so
vose or behavioristic or 

769
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:08,640
imperial. 
Indications of what the he donek

770
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:12,960
vaue of that stimulas like be 
for the animal and do's 

771
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,960
indications or telanas that all 
mission kuse or unplasm that are

772
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:22,160
a versive right. 
Jetzt so xake and a dagno just 

773
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,160
it's i go we go, we're we can be
one mars apple right, so Barry 

774
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:31,600
in o two squares of give the 
ogoposit ranforcer or don't get 

775
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,200
the ogoposit ranforcer is 
underforsive continions. 

776
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,880
Now that's go. 
Let's go to the other one so 

777
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:44,000
positive ponchment and negative 
reinforcement it can be song one

778
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,000
of the recomedations i have for 
practition is of a versive 

779
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,960
control is that they use what or
call of eater what i get all 

780
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:55,280
call of a safety q so is that 
they use a safety q to more 

781
00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:00,840
successful complition of a 
critarian respons and signify to

782
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:04,160
the dogs that nothing of versive
will happer. 

783
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:09,320
It's call the save to q right 
some electra callers have tons 

784
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,280
on that you can use a save to 
q's most of a su practice is 

785
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:18,320
kind of training, we have a 
verbal q that's as all mission 

786
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:25,280
of a punisher in laboratories, 
it's quite usual for there to be

787
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,800
a save to q in an negative, in 
an negative in forcement 

788
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,520
context. 
And if there's not and x plus 

789
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,200
and safety q that franceens 
tells and animal that it is 

790
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,240
successly move from one side of 
a shutle box to the other side 

791
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:42,840
of a shutle box and that they 
will be no elector chock they're

792
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,480
all kind of other kuses that the
animal conus in cluting it's on 

793
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:51,360
propreaceptive kuses meaning i 
move i know i move, I'm no i 

794
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:55,360
pervenanted something on plus 
and reapining so this are safety

795
00:59:55,360 --> 01:00:00,240
kus we can show. 
That safety q's have many of the

796
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:05,320
properties a positive inforces 
right they can be use to 

797
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:10,920
condition to motivate other 
behavers so animals will work to

798
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:17,920
bring about safety q's also we 
can show that that's problem off

799
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,000
on, that's upwork so so barry, 
and it's can i get a 

800
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,200
reinforcement proceders like i 
make this point and that's 

801
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:25,840
terminals. 
So Berry the negative 

802
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,720
inforcement proceders there is a
very important positive 

803
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:36,400
inforcement process and the the 
point in time the point in 

804
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,840
animal performance that with we 
see this positive inforcement 

805
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:45,120
process most at work is in well 
advanced of voidance kind of 

806
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:49,320
responding. 
Win if you look for fear right, 

807
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,800
you think ok, it's a void ins 
responding and was doing this on

808
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:58,400
q in or to a void a he donacly 
of or subsemulas there's mus b 4

809
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:03,880
right there's going b 4 so of i 
use and in the pened measure a 

810
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:09,000
fear to chat for the level fear 
in a laboratory anomaled it a 

811
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,000
shilling a very there a high 
level the we ins responding 

812
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:17,800
that's what no fear. 
Right, so the question is at 

813
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:23,440
what's sign to call asimpetotic 
meaning maximal hi as possible 

814
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:28,400
levels of a board insurspony and
liberatory setting what we see 

815
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:33,720
is the absons of here measure to
independate measure the question

816
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:38,400
is what's driving it well. 
And also the work of safety q's,

817
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,080
which is i said have a lock of 
the the properties, the posser 

818
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:46,480
ranin forcers what is why you 
can see a dog trained by a 

819
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:51,680
higlevel technition the usevers 
of control perform activally 

820
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:57,840
joifaly and show positive effect
eveno he's waring a prom coot or

821
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:02,800
eveno he's waring an elektric 
coot to show positive effect in 

822
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,720
the samway. 
Well that that. 

823
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:09,120
Can't do a phillips have go 
discussion, but but that that is

824
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,400
what i have to see in a not 
shall and i like you to kind of 

825
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,120
this in to the details some time
but that in a not shalls what 

826
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:19,600
i've to say about the continuity
square and this part of ficial 

827
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:25,120
spliting up it in two nice 
mathes and not nice mathes it's 

828
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:29,000
not so we is you to spit up ja. 
And. 

829
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,120
I'm so i get the row you but 
that's. 

830
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,080
That's what we call or ray and i
want to the finish my rayan 

831
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:38,960
fusure fusure and. 
And it make that off of Sand so 

832
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:44,720
fusure men of Allison is will 
will one to die deep deepering 

833
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:49,760
to this probly we like be happy 
in off to have a canologies and 

834
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,240
posting here in european they 
with you guys, but bevor that i 

835
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,520
will, i will be the lighted i 
will be the lighted to. 

836
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:58,640
Do it. 
Consering the safety. 

837
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:04,120
Q's How just the learner on the 
stand or where is the 

838
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:09,680
association between the safety q
and the not happening 

839
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:14,240
consequence so talking about the
there, they're two ways to do it

840
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:17,280
and and. 
This bekomms extremly technical,

841
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,920
so it's it's impossible for meet
it. 

842
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,600
That's a very good question. 
And it's impossible for me dance

843
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,600
for the question. 
What I'll geting very taktible 

844
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:29,680
so i will tright to skimove the 
Details a little bit and if this

845
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:34,880
interview and you one on a more 
about it, then in future i will 

846
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:39,920
have more agication available i 
will have two videos up pretty 

847
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:44,800
zoom and one of them will will 
tell you some of the basics they

848
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,320
know or on your stand safety kus
you have on your sand peblovian 

849
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,440
inhibition. 
And I don't go. 

850
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,840
Essently. 
In peloby connitioning what's 

851
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:58,640
happening is one stimulus 
develops the ability to predict 

852
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:03,040
another stimulus and in trains 
changes it an animals or a 

853
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:08,280
person's brain to a just to the 
prediction that something is of 

854
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,680
out to happen in peloby 
connition in peloby and 

855
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:15,280
inbitioning what's happening is 
that a stimulus perdict the 

856
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,800
absons of somping important 
happening. 

857
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,560
Predicted on the bases of the 
situation right, that's a pable 

858
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:28,160
of an and hibber so a pable of 
an and hibberer for someting 

859
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:32,960
fear of the for someting that 
that produzes fear or pane kind 

860
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:37,840
of preduses relief kind of 
preduses someting that fears 

861
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:42,560
good a pable of an and hibberter
for someting that that for 

862
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:46,720
someting that. 
Mikes and and are human being 

863
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:50,800
fuel good feels kind of Bad 
right, so what we talk about a 

864
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:55,080
minute to go one. 
I Tell my dogg wrong what that 

865
01:04:55,120 --> 01:05:00,080
is it's a pewlowian and hibbitor
for if i'm using food, it's a 

866
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,920
pewlowian and hibbitor for food,
it means no food the dark is the

867
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,560
like to here that we're because 
he means no food it's the operit

868
01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:11,920
of plusion and vice for so in 
the context of a versive control

869
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,760
and safety kuse. 
What a safety q is a pawlowin 

870
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:20,320
and is is a pawlowin and 
hibberer for what ever the 

871
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:24,800
punisher is that's your using 
there are two ways that formate 

872
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:29,360
that that association can be a 
stablish one of them is two 

873
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:32,800
forward conditioning. 
What is a think call assassation

874
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:40,240
q like that's say i want? 
I'm not going to put. 

875
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,040
This in Trumps of Dog. 
Training because it with son 

876
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:44,720
like a we're dog training 
procedure. 

877
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:48,080
I'm a put it and in the the 
context of a laboratory study, 

878
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:52,880
so that's a we have an animal 
who a standing on an elektrifide

879
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:56,800
grid and. 
The Grid. 

880
01:05:56,800 --> 01:06:02,400
Goes hot so the animals feed or 
uncomtrible and then at time 

881
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,680
zero, the grid goes off and off 
sets. 

882
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:10,480
There are two ways. 
I can use edition information to

883
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:14,880
predict up for the animal one of
them is to forward conditioning.

884
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:21,360
What is that there's AQ that 
coms in at zero mine SF, there's

885
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:25,960
a five second q that's as 
voltage is going to shot off and

886
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:30,120
five seconds that's fulward 
conditioning and that will make 

887
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:34,320
that that offset q that's as 
asian q, it will make it a 

888
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:39,200
peblobian and hibbor for shock. 
If it'll training to a nice 

889
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:43,440
noise and also a very 
informative noise for the annom 

890
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,840
right, there's a not a wake to 
do it. 

891
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:51,000
You can backward condition so 
that the annomals on the hot 

892
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:55,440
grid hot meaning, there's curk 
flowing to it right at time 

893
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:00,960
zero, the grid goes off and just
of at that time another signal 

894
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:04,400
goes on for three sex and that 
signal. 

895
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:09,000
Is is backward condition with 
the offset of a acricity and 

896
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,440
that's what some of that's 
backward conditioning works. 

897
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,640
It's not a relible real. 
The backward conditioning never 

898
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,400
work, sometimes it just work 
it's backward condition by the 

899
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:23,720
offset of shock and also we're 
importanty bothed these qs, the 

900
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:27,600
cassation q and also the safety 
q they're both a societ of the 

901
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:32,480
offset of shock and a pevolvian 
sets and they predt apired of 

902
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:37,080
safety. 
And theywill.com strong 

903
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:42,880
informate hozed if reanforcers 
yeah i I've. 

904
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:45,840
And and. 
If i and if. 

905
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:50,120
I've that's going you know are 
lisoners all of a lisoners out 

906
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,320
there if that's going you know 
over your head or past your head

907
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:57,000
you one here in or. 
That's talk about it in detail. 

908
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:00,080
You'll be. 
Challenge right this shit is not

909
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,560
easy to understand, you'll be 
challenge what that is part of 

910
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:08,800
what i beginner interview with 
is is think that they're all 

911
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:16,000
kise aways of challenge your sof
and dogrand you can challenge 

912
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:18,560
your sof emotional, but i 
learning to do something like 

913
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,359
free shaping. 
And you can town yourself 

914
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:26,240
inelectually by learning the 
stuff that tells you why the 

915
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:30,399
stuff you do one dot training 
feels that works why at works 

916
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:34,160
and why the shit you do one dot 
training feels that does and 

917
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:39,120
work and then also why we're 
some of the mics and argument to

918
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:44,319
you is nonsens that is nonsens. 
You can the tack that is nonsens

919
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:51,479
and tell them white is nonsens. 
And that's bei or being able to.

920
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,040
Really pudding words what you're
a plying and what you're. 

921
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,880
Doing and innowing how to. 
Discribe why things or working 

922
01:08:57,880 --> 01:09:02,000
and not the coothing from the 
discussion that that i of 

923
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:07,200
learned all really is this idea 
of the of the safety q's because

924
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,120
what we are teaching are 
handlers and instructes in our 

925
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:15,439
courses is that. 
Like we that's just are 

926
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,600
philosophy of how how we apply 
different consequent is. 

927
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:24,080
So we use announce and on 
announce rewards, they're. 

928
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:25,680
Like always be a little announce
and man. 

929
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,120
And what me as QA Techno go, let
me as QA. 

930
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,800
Techno go question, what is the 
utility? 

931
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:35,960
What is the purpus of each of? 
There's techning it really. 

932
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,439
Depens on on the situation. 
Of behavior, so when I'm talking

933
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:44,720
about reward announcements. 
ID bite behavior or wanted 

934
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:48,240
behavioring to big categories. 
The one is that we owis go 

935
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:53,520
through first and late on when 
it's about specifity and and and

936
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:58,480
precision where we want to 
reward a quick correct response 

937
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,680
getting into the correct 
behavior, very fast accurate 

938
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:05,800
etc. 
And there for in most cases and 

939
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:08,560
i'm reallio detection guy or 
nose work guy also. 

940
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:15,120
Searching for people and and out
of substance is i want to have a

941
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:18,800
korrekt timing and make the dog 
really on the stand that the 

942
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:23,200
decision of geting into this 
behave or now was ride on top, 

943
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,240
so i announce to reward ride 
away. 

944
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:30,320
The reward announcement when for
a classical conditioning, so 

945
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:35,840
it's a reflex like behave or 
that comes after the 

946
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:41,280
understanding of a reward. 
And sometimes i want to work on 

947
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:46,400
staying in a behavior, so i some
how play with a variable 

948
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:49,360
rainforcements catchel we're the
dog under stud. 

949
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:53,440
Ok, there might be a point of 
receding a reward not really 

950
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:57,800
knowing when so i just stay in 
the behavior, and for example, a

951
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:04,000
behavior that is oriented to the
front like sit and there or 

952
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:08,080
stand and bark torards and 
object or a subject. 

953
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:14,640
I present the reward on announce
from the backture a classical 

954
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:20,200
throw in the toy torwarts 
dessours and this is. 

955
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:22,320
What what be call? 
The on announce reward for 

956
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:26,760
example, orits call it a healing
and you're walking, walking and 

957
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:30,640
then suddenly. 
You present the reward for the 

958
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:34,800
dog, the might BO was a little 
announcements because of 

959
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:39,520
movements or the sound that the 
the ball might make when froing 

960
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:45,360
it some we're, but it's not a 
and announcement that we work on

961
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:51,360
by pudding it on under 
rinforcement or a stimulus that 

962
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:56,160
announces the positive 
rinforcement so this is a hope 

963
01:11:56,160 --> 01:11:59,720
you got the point that i was. 
No, i I'm. 

964
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:01,360
I did it. 
And and my you're. 

965
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,840
You're makeing two you're 
makeing explicity one important 

966
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:11,560
point, which is that evenive we 
do not explicity predict and 

967
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:18,400
out.com so in informal talk what
we call a punershes and a wars. 

968
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:22,560
And and also USS and peb lowby 
and are can are classbuddition 

969
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:27,280
proceders will be callbos are 
are outcoms right, so it's it 

970
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:30,880
evenive we do not explicity 
perdict and outcom. 

971
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:35,560
With a word or clickers, i'm 
like that it's very hard frost 

972
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:39,960
to perduse that outcom without 
over insidennal stimuli, 

973
01:12:40,480 --> 01:12:44,360
predicting me outcom, and that 
can be a big bro and all kind of

974
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,440
the was but to live you're 
trained attack to docks right, 

975
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:49,720
but in the every phase of 
training evan winner's not a 

976
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:55,200
delatory inforcement 
advanticiously or acedenly 

977
01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:00,120
condition padlovian kuse so 
Frances you healing your dog. 

978
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,120
He's like an up at your face. 
He's all and gays like he's 

979
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:06,000
spozedo you're going to trine to
give them and unanance free in 

980
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:09,120
forsments to really get a costum
you're do in just the right 

981
01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:12,800
think, but if he's your hand 
move or fee, he's your 

982
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:17,120
fingernals it's you're jacket or
he's the velpro on the pocket 

983
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,520
when you get the ball out he's 
no on your doing what you're 

984
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:25,720
trine the reen forsom for he's 
doing something that and that 

985
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:29,200
can be a big problem, but 
there's so that's one important 

986
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:29,680
point. 
That. 

987
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:34,640
So we're go and. 
No, that's one. 

988
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:37,760
Very important point that. 
That you that you made is that 

989
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,800
ebene of you doside the 
appropria think and the besting 

990
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:44,160
you do right now was to get an 
unanouts for a war. 

991
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:48,000
It's really hard to do super 
smarded right because it's very 

992
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:50,840
off and that the reward is 
annouts by a stimulus that you 

993
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:56,480
didn intern and and you instat 
in Sir you're on explizit it 

994
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,560
stimulus that you can controll. 
Other important point that's you

995
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:05,520
maid and maybe not explicitly, 
but for me, it was it was barry 

996
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:10,320
that what you're think ok is is 
something that's so go have go, 

997
01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:15,680
but it no if i and so what have 
a quip go it, i was just 

998
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:19,760
listening II. 
Ok, you're are you're you're. 

999
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:24,880
Active literner you're talk a 
literner ok, so the the other 

1000
01:14:24,960 --> 01:14:28,520
important point it you this you 
made assassin the as a do with 

1001
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:33,840
the effective supprise one of 
the motion port insites about 

1002
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,560
peb loving connitioning a 
indians tremanal connitioning 

1003
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:40,120
that has to have all up sins the
late sixty not the the every 

1004
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:44,880
sevener late sixties and every 
sevenies as a result of the work

1005
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,040
of a psychologist name leon 
camon. 

1006
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:55,120
Is is the conception that it is 
surprise that drives learning. 

1007
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:58,560
We're an animal. 
Or human Bing. 

1008
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:03,200
Is really surprise by an alpcom 
that calls is the larges 

1009
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:08,760
incromant in learn. 
We're an alpcom is very perficly

1010
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:15,360
producted that produzes lower. 
Interbits in Learning so One 

1011
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:20,960
think i think your sang is that 
in or to get a very strong 

1012
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:25,600
reenforcement a they highly 
highly do's a arble behaviour 

1013
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,800
what you like to do with 
surprise the dog with the a 

1014
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:33,840
rival of the ball or the will 
order what have reusing i think 

1015
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:38,720
that is very sound thinking 
fractity it's super hard to do. 

1016
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:44,160
And if you want to know have 
this idea of surprise driving, 

1017
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:47,360
both plasco connitioning and 
instrumental connitioning coms 

1018
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:53,360
and it have to do with the work 
of another psychologes name will

1019
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:57,920
Leon kaman and also another 
psychologes name Robert rescorla

1020
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:02,160
i astly i name to dog after 
Robert rescurl, so there's a dog

1021
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:05,800
at there's name is rescurl a 
grate psychologes and what he 

1022
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:09,040
that is he developed a sudom 
mastmatical model. 

1023
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:14,240
To a kind for the effects of 
surprise, I'm in conditioning 

1024
01:16:14,480 --> 01:16:18,560
and if I'm not my staking, it's 
an austrian scientos to i think 

1025
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:24,320
is name is shurts who as 
verified that on a new ronal 

1026
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:27,920
level, this is what's serrin 
classes of norons in the brain, 

1027
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:35,160
do is that they fire when. 
And expectation based on present

1028
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:39,440
stimuli is not fulfill and what 
these are ons do is there the 

1029
01:16:39,440 --> 01:16:42,560
scrap and see the takers they've
digger out and the animal 

1030
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:47,280
perdiced something and something
els happens and they drive a 

1031
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:49,760
shit lot of learning we not a 
curx. 

1032
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,400
I have to do's and research is 
on that. 

1033
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:59,760
So is the schuld. 
Still a life or is r d's all 

1034
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:02,800
there's studies, oh ja, ja i so 
so II Think. 

1035
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:07,360
He for us Point it Out II holt i
have the namecarrect i think 

1036
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:12,320
it's shoes and i have the paper 
all with there on my desk, but 

1037
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:16,400
some time in the ninedies he 
that's the norop i loggical work

1038
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:19,920
in a we're animal like a mongoly
and jurbal or something like 

1039
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,080
that. 
In which they were able to 

1040
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:28,000
isolate this class of the rons 
who they don't fire win orwards 

1041
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:32,720
are unprediced, they don't fire 
win punishers or unprediced they

1042
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:38,280
are dopaminergic no rons meaning
that they're on they they're the

1043
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:42,240
effects to the no transminer 
dopamin and they fire 

1044
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:46,640
prferenchally when something the
animal fog was going to happen 

1045
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:52,400
do's in happer. 
And and they are active with the

1046
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:56,800
most learning is a complused. 
So, so that's Kind of the noiral

1047
01:17:56,800 --> 01:17:59,840
Biology and there's all kind of 
levels of detail. 

1048
01:17:59,920 --> 01:18:03,360
It was so live look in this, but
basicly with your song is hey 

1049
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:08,400
some times it really sures my 
perpuses to surprise my dog with

1050
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:12,640
or a war some times it really 
sures my perpuses to surprise my

1051
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:15,120
dog with a punishment hard to 
do. 

1052
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:19,840
Because that aggas dum and if 
you was but is not dum and being

1053
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:23,040
unable to predator was going to 
have next and training szenario 

1054
01:18:23,280 --> 01:18:27,120
based on all the kuse of aable 
them, but if you can't a compash

1055
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:31,040
surprise of the right time, you 
can develop a tonne learning on 

1056
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:37,240
off of a verif you a smallmember
of learning trials and. 

1057
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:40,800
So, this is something that's. 
Really try to or dual or best 

1058
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:43,360
in. 
In teaching by purple's 

1059
01:18:43,440 --> 01:18:48,480
announcing or not announcing, 
for example, also this surprise 

1060
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:52,960
can be announce just when the 
dog is not yet expecting there 

1061
01:18:52,960 --> 01:18:58,560
reward or expecting in that the 
different so you can surprise in

1062
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:00,800
with the marker. 
Not with the reward exactly 

1063
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:05,640
exactly ja. 
So for sure and extra, this is a

1064
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,440
little of topic, but what be 
really interested and what you 

1065
01:19:08,440 --> 01:19:10,160
think about it because a talked 
about it with. 

1066
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:16,960
I think Evan Michael and also 
with Jens Frank Conserning so it

1067
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:20,720
my just happ and sometimes that 
you're a using AA condition 

1068
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:26,000
stimulus announcement for a 
reward at wrong time, and then 

1069
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,000
not giving the primery rerean 
forced that the dog riddy 

1070
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:34,040
expected i for myself. 
I am not educated in off, maybe 

1071
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:38,640
or not experience in off or two 
nive and i would see II. 

1072
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:42,640
When i do a click event, it was 
a wrong click II. 

1073
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,600
All was deliver the primer rean 
for so because that's like an 

1074
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:49,320
unrit and lot is. 
This is the the promis that i 

1075
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:54,560
made because i think about it i 
already gave the information of 

1076
01:19:54,720 --> 01:20:00,640
a off a reward, so the dog 
already as his dopamin shooting 

1077
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:04,960
around in it's brain and and 
feeling reward it and giving the

1078
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:08,080
reward afterward is just 
something that keeps the weal 

1079
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:11,280
turning. 
And I don't want mic. 

1080
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:16,080
As I don't want my dog to start 
thinking about oh he click but 

1081
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:19,400
will he now give me the reward 
or maybe not like the last time 

1082
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:24,840
so even do i did wrong clicks, i
they're not happing happening to

1083
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:29,520
two many times hopely i would 
still deliver a primer or 

1084
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:33,600
inforce and what how do you see 
it what you're deliver a reward 

1085
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:36,160
even do you get a wrong 
announcement. 

1086
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:38,640
So. 
So the Situation. 

1087
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:45,360
Is the dog as not met critarian 
or he's metamestic like he's 

1088
01:20:45,480 --> 01:20:49,920
think we're can do is xacli and 
at the very. 

1089
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:53,400
Moment, you want to click or 
save the Reward announcement 

1090
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:57,120
like i use word or sounds. 
I'm it with my mout because i 

1091
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:01,360
loose the clicks a solditime the
dog is indicating sitans there 

1092
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:07,320
and when you one to reward he's.
Losing Fokus ja, and this is I'm

1093
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:10,880
sexy is. 
The clearer. 

1094
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:12,480
Stick that's a good clearer x 
Apple. 

1095
01:21:12,480 --> 01:21:18,040
So that's talk about the dog e 
mits to us to use behaver and 

1096
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:21,840
aloses language. 
The Dog, e mits and unders are 

1097
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:26,040
of a respons you make a mistake 
and you mark that respons with 

1098
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:31,920
the pable ovi and exider with. 
Tells a dog that that a word is 

1099
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:35,520
coming right one. 
It's it's a kind of a no win 

1100
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:41,200
situation if you go on and we're
word the dog trine to keep your 

1101
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:45,440
contract with the dog if you do 
this marker, you will be reward 

1102
01:21:45,440 --> 01:21:51,360
it trine to keep that holy if 
you go holy like HLLY Holy right

1103
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:56,160
heilig ja heilig that's if if. 
You tride it keep. 

1104
01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:59,160
This contract with the dog holy 
by Roman. 

1105
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:03,200
And wearding hit evanuay made in
a stick, then you're reanforcing

1106
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:05,960
and on as i will respons on the 
other hand. 

1107
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:08,960
If you do not rewarding because 
you're mark them at the wrong 

1108
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:12,800
time and you don't on a 
reanforce to respons then you're

1109
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:16,560
you're break in the contract 
with my particulit perspektive 

1110
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:25,080
is that particulit because. 
Particulit because turning that 

1111
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:27,720
had. 
Tors you and a well train dog is

1112
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,600
an exceptional behager. 
Right like he's supprice you, 

1113
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:33,640
you don't think he was going to 
do that so a click that you know

1114
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:37,280
the hit turns you click and you 
pay the dog that's a relationsly

1115
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:40,760
uncomend behabor so the amanda 
learning that's you going to 

1116
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:45,920
drive but providing and or 
worldwide that is quitstrol ok, 

1117
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:51,120
now that's that's go back to 
your mark how offen have you if 

1118
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:55,080
you is an clicker how off and if
you clicked and then we're what 

1119
01:22:55,080 --> 01:23:00,560
the dog with a cong or with you.
Hundreds of johns pro xxly yeah 

1120
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:03,280
and a dog that you. 
And a dog that you've train the.

1121
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:07,520
Great the all hundreds of times 
how like extinction to you think

1122
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:13,720
you will drive with one non 
reanforce non nom. 

1123
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:16,800
Much no xxly yeah, it'll it will
be a. 

1124
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:18,560
Posible. 
So so. 

1125
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:23,040
My peservice and i peservice 
will be to go a fuck it. 

1126
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:25,120
I mark them for the on think 
i've just not going to about 

1127
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:30,000
right and and the. 
The downside that i don't think 

1128
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:33,680
will be that you will we can 
your market the downside to a be

1129
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:37,680
will be the you'll cosm 
frustration with cool in merch 

1130
01:23:38,480 --> 01:23:43,120
layeroy right because what the 
dog what a what a dog will ten 

1131
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:47,040
to do. 
Win the doggus supprice by aver 

1132
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,400
a will condition q for 
reinforsment and the doggus not 

1133
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:54,160
reinfors is the doggo programm 
frustrator and engage and 

1134
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:58,480
perseveration what i we was do 
an hill do it harm right, but my

1135
01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:05,800
particular point of you is that 
battle to put my my marker on a 

1136
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:11,560
very very rich but still portal.
Reinforcement's cadual interest 

1137
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:15,360
and it provide primer 
reinforcement for a behaviour i 

1138
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:18,960
absolut, we don't want, but if i
on the stand. 

1139
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:23,840
So I'm I'm on the orside and 
this mixens and i will also soon

1140
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:28,800
tell you not a story, we're that
i discovered for myself ok, but 

1141
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:33,040
and that me get you a foot, no. 
But what we're klose last me the

1142
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,080
talk about prediction and 
walfare ok. 

1143
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:40,000
So ok, so that's that's go down.
What have a dog training rabbit 

1144
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:42,960
hole you want to go down because
you as interesting questions, 

1145
01:24:43,680 --> 01:24:46,800
but that's not for get to talk a
link bit about prediction 

1146
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:54,160
control ok and animal walfare II
pudd a rufezeichen to it. 

1147
01:24:55,120 --> 01:25:00,480
Was mein Rufezeichen. 
Rufezeichen, Oh, rufe. 

1148
01:25:00,480 --> 01:25:03,360
Nation mal. 
Ja, Oh ja, ja, ok. 

1149
01:25:03,480 --> 01:25:11,760
Ok so. 
That's how how to pudd it. 

1150
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,320
When the dog when the learn II 
was like to talk about the learn

1151
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:19,880
it because it works for us, the 
sing probably all was the same 

1152
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:22,800
was it's also it's also 
politically korrekt. 

1153
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:29,080
And and we we all do what's an 
like on it. 

1154
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:33,120
I'll Single German We all. 
We would have to. 

1155
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:37,280
At all the all the. 
Genders, der die das lernen 

1156
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:42,560
Lernerin genau lernen, das ja ja
auf Englisch wir haben. 

1157
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:49,840
Das gleiche Problem, aber nicht 
so, nicht so viele Alternativen.

1158
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:52,920
Ja ja, i will Not oskey about 
your. 

1159
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:58,480
Pronounts. 
So. 

1160
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:00,520
I'm. 
Just get a I'm just get a step 

1161
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:04,240
pasta. 
Ok so. 

1162
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:08,400
What I Ford. 
And and and i like. 

1163
01:26:08,400 --> 01:26:14,080
To develop and understand things
you what i ford is when i have 

1164
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:19,520
created a propert trained and 
propert conditioned stimulus 

1165
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:23,360
that announces the the 
uncondition stimulus. 

1166
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:29,360
Then that. 
Then the learner already. 

1167
01:26:29,360 --> 01:26:32,840
Feedles hiped or reward it when 
he's just hering the 

1168
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:37,520
announcement, so if if that what
then so so you have rean force. 

1169
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:42,720
You have rean Force behält or 
already when you've mixackly all

1170
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:46,120
ready that was that was. 
The reason why of out ok already

1171
01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:50,720
rean force it and yes, we have 
this not rit in contract, but we

1172
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:56,720
have it so i just hand of or or 
give to the dog the rean force. 

1173
01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:00,880
Because I don't know you can you
you've got me think and about. 

1174
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:06,080
There's now it's it's quiet a 
good question and i don't like. 

1175
01:27:06,160 --> 01:27:10,160
That i's got a experts because. 
It's a very interesting. 

1176
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:14,800
It's very nerdy, but i like 
talking about it. 

1177
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:19,600
So it's it's not nerdy, it's a. 
Aktually a very like II think 

1178
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:24,000
one we say nerd in English, we 
kind of mean some about the who 

1179
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:29,600
loves knowledge or loves detail.
Divors from how my practical 

1180
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:34,400
value, the knowleger detail is 
ok, you think that that this is 

1181
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:37,240
that connequestion i think this 
is actually and important 

1182
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:40,720
applyed question because it's a 
problem that all of as is all 

1183
01:27:40,720 --> 01:27:44,040
trainers are going to have what 
to do in the situation and and 

1184
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:48,360
the inster is far from obvious 
and i think that i get talk to 

1185
01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:52,240
technicity very strong like 
strong technations. 

1186
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,520
Who would have to going points 
of you and the more i think 

1187
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:59,600
about at the more sodal 
aquestion it is my my first a 

1188
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:05,200
proximation with do because one 
must be coreses about 

1189
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:10,720
frustrating a high, we motor be 
working up because win you win 

1190
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:15,680
you frustrate the animal in 
someways you make it more 

1191
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,480
likely. 
That behavior associate with 

1192
01:28:18,480 --> 01:28:22,120
frustration will reopeer like 
the home parshal reforcement 

1193
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:26,640
extinction effekt, the the 
mccanics a puddy of behavior on 

1194
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:30,480
a parshal reinforcement skedal 
and orders to make it resistance

1195
01:28:30,480 --> 01:28:33,840
to extinction that to pens on 
frustration. 

1196
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:38,280
I so, so Frustration is a tool 
what it's probly condition 

1197
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:42,080
frustration is a way of geting 
an amels to do something i get 

1198
01:28:42,080 --> 01:28:46,240
and a kind and a kind. 
Even no, it's not reanforce so 

1199
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:49,920
if you in a virtual reanforce an
animator the wrong to i if you 

1200
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:52,560
in a virtual frustrate an 
animator the ring tom at the 

1201
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:56,800
wrong time in the afra to a 
bolasure behabor some time is 

1202
01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:00,560
you can make that behabor 
reapear and a virbor sopern form

1203
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:06,400
so one i think about it my 
thordias and i'm i'm not kind of

1204
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:09,000
this is the ridans her, but you 
got me think about something 

1205
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:12,160
verbor interesting, and this is 
what we like to do in that conal

1206
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:17,280
just symposia. 
Is consitor from a background of

1207
01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:21,680
technical knowledge to consitor 
questions that are difficult the

1208
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:24,400
answer. 
There is a just or bright answer

1209
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:28,040
or something we can all aply or 
my in and or experience and my 

1210
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:31,360
annitial my annitial a 
proxmation on that question is 

1211
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:37,360
if the mastake to the dog shows 
is a low probability behabor 

1212
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:42,000
something he's never don or he 
very really does. 

1213
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:46,800
Then I'm like up to frustrate 
him have to the marker instatter

1214
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:50,320
for word him. 
If it's a problem, I'm actually 

1215
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:54,720
working meaning he's down of the
butcher times for for and i'm 

1216
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:59,720
kind of get ritable and i 
inovertly market I'm like just 

1217
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:04,040
go oh fuck it i think i think 
I'm in a calls more problem like

1218
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:07,800
frustrateing himright now when 
the behave of that's already a 

1219
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:10,560
lot bit you know hubitial at 
burbian. 

1220
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:14,400
Then i am but just going ok. 
Here's an all the rinforcer 

1221
01:30:14,480 --> 01:30:18,080
you're got a problem this is an 
and i make it much was we're 

1222
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:21,000
just can a set up and do it 
again the right like so i think 

1223
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:24,960
in some sour consenses i'm my 
argue that the cours of last 

1224
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:33,520
dangers to go a rinfors and i 
know I'm going to get in the 

1225
01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:38,400
primary because this is an 
uncoment behave your and i don't

1226
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:41,080
want to get a rinfors my really 
in is learning history. 

1227
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:46,920
When the effect of each, we in 
forsman, he is i'm big incromant

1228
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:51,520
in the have last one. 
It's very interesting, it's. 

1229
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:57,680
It's very interesting, so I'm 
like me know what you will talk 

1230
01:30:57,680 --> 01:31:01,640
to some one about this or of you
times i would be really 

1231
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:03,360
interested one we meet the next 
time to. 

1232
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:06,920
Michael Bears. 
Yes, and we like you super 

1233
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:08,920
interesting guide. 
To talk to it about we. 

1234
01:31:08,920 --> 01:31:11,120
Strive is it english, we 
striveed we. 

1235
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:17,240
We we shortly talk to about it 
unfortunite that on a white. 

1236
01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:22,240
We do it in talk about a longer,
but i still think it's very 

1237
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:31,120
interesting and for me for me 
personaly and as i set I'm i'm 

1238
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:34,240
very eagle to learn. 
But for now, i what's still go 

1239
01:31:34,240 --> 01:31:38,280
with the if it was a wrong click
or if it was a wrong timing, i 

1240
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:42,560
what's still handover the the 
promist consequence, but what i 

1241
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:48,320
have and what i my initial and 
go it. 

1242
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:53,280
Oh i was just going to say my 
initial take was. 

1243
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:56,920
Was to disagree with you, but 
now you have me thanking more 

1244
01:31:56,920 --> 01:32:03,840
deeplan I'm going. 
But interesting thing is i'm 

1245
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:08,480
working with some tool with a 
machine that it's call the 

1246
01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:12,400
detection dog training system it
it's engineered by a german 

1247
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:16,560
former police and Trainer Hans 
abbers maybe you know hin, maybe

1248
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:22,240
not he he used to be and he. 
He developed disgrate machine. 

1249
01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:28,240
So the Dog puts it has seven 
holes behind every hold or two 

1250
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:31,280
posibilities a destractor or a 
blank and. 

1251
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:37,840
Target oder and the system runs 
and and randomizes and twitch 

1252
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:43,080
hall the target oder will be 
open and the other six halls 

1253
01:32:43,080 --> 01:32:48,680
there will be distractor or 
blank hall, and there is a in 

1254
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:52,600
germany. 
It's a lichtbrücke, it's a like 

1255
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:56,960
a light signal and when the dark
knows is at the cract hall and 

1256
01:32:56,960 --> 01:33:00,200
is disturbing the light bridge, 
so it's it's a it's a. 

1257
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:03,920
It's a light bridge. 
It's so it's a visual stimulus 

1258
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:06,480
what serves as a bridge. 
Ja, ja, exactive the machine on 

1259
01:33:06,480 --> 01:33:08,080
the stands ok, the nose is in 
the korrekt. 

1260
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:12,680
Hole so a Reward will be 
delivered and the reward is 

1261
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:16,240
announce so the the dogputs is 
nose in the hole. 

1262
01:33:16,480 --> 01:33:20,000
The machine on the stands ok, 
korrekt indication and the 

1263
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:24,240
machine that's bing and and 
then. 

1264
01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:27,680
Release is the the kibble. 
Through a mechanism, so also 

1265
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:29,680
there is in mechanic sound of 
the bing. 

1266
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:33,040
And sometimes. 
The kibble. 

1267
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:36,480
Is getting stock all the way 
down. 

1268
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:40,760
Sometimes there is a bing. 
And nothing is coming down so 

1269
01:33:40,760 --> 01:33:45,120
actually promis has been given 
do the reward was the behabio 

1270
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:48,960
was perfect, but the dog her is 
the bing is like i'm getting 

1271
01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:51,680
rewarded and then the kibble god
stock. 

1272
01:33:52,080 --> 01:33:56,000
I don't know why because the 
holes or to small bla bla and 

1273
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:57,760
what is the dog now. 
Doing. 

1274
01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:01,680
And we have scene different 
approaches from different dogs, 

1275
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:07,120
but most dogs or just ok, it's 
continuous searching find in the

1276
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:13,600
next the next correct target, 
but i think this is because here

1277
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:19,200
we have a quite alow level of a 
rausal exitment motivation 

1278
01:34:19,200 --> 01:34:23,160
because it's just about the 
kibble and i have scene. 

1279
01:34:23,440 --> 01:34:27,280
Something similar when we're 
training and a tech dog three. 

1280
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:32,240
He's first a projes around the 
corner, so not sing the the 

1281
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:37,040
subject running towers the 
subject and just byting the one 

1282
01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:40,720
but searching around the corner,
i was just a gäste this 

1283
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:46,720
training, so i was not the in 
taking part in it and this dog 

1284
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:50,320
running he's first search around
the corner. 

1285
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:54,640
Not seeing the subject being 
like ok, they send me they 

1286
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:58,400
promised me that i could bite 
some one, but now the risno one 

1287
01:34:59,840 --> 01:35:07,600
and the dog just hammered into a
not us asford, but the beton 

1288
01:35:08,480 --> 01:35:12,080
like a like really strong stony 
material. 

1289
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:15,520
He just hammered into it ran 
around the corner didnt see AD 

1290
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:19,680
koi and the frustration was like
ok i will just bite anything 

1291
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:22,480
now. 
This is very much inturped by 

1292
01:35:22,480 --> 01:35:29,040
me, but so that this this. 
Dynamic of of perhaps with 

1293
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:34,680
holding with holding or or 
afrit's been signal by the marco

1294
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:38,720
or the bridge. 
This dynamic of we should i take

1295
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:44,000
the frustration and of what 
we're wording the dog be on this

1296
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:48,360
the signarerinforcer or shot i 
instet keep the contract with 

1297
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:53,240
the dog in payam. 
It also the Pens on what moed 

1298
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:57,560
the dog is in right. 
So Frustration will Defly play a

1299
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:02,120
larger and I'm on Port and roll 
in the Prozess in the hire 

1300
01:36:02,120 --> 01:36:06,760
registers of the Dogs emotions 
in Motivation i so frustrading a

1301
01:36:06,760 --> 01:36:10,160
dog for one piece, a food have 
to if given in thirty and the 

1302
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:13,680
cors of the training session is 
one them frustrading in from 

1303
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:16,960
upye one, he will only get 6 in 
the session. 

1304
01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:21,440
And he's an a completely for a 
motional and physio argual stay 

1305
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:25,600
toe literent that exactly so i 
think there. 

1306
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:31,840
Is it all was depends right and 
and and and the art is to figure

1307
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:36,240
out what what's Situation all we
in what's the value of the 

1308
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:40,960
promised reward and it it makes 
total. 

1309
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:44,880
Sand because for example. 
Like you omi, some five euros 

1310
01:36:44,880 --> 01:36:46,640
and you forget to get it back to
me. 

1311
01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:52,080
It's like ok's five euros, but 
if you oh me 5000€ and we meet 

1312
01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:55,760
the next time you, but a bring 
it so it's it's a different bell

1313
01:36:55,760 --> 01:36:59,360
you and there is a different and
maybe we're not. 

1314
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:04,000
France it in or you don't bring 
it so it's it's a really. 

1315
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:07,920
Be considered depending the dog,
the exercise the level of 

1316
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:13,600
understanding so what is it 
about we teaching new behave or 

1317
01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:16,320
all all we already pudding 
pressure on. 

1318
01:37:17,360 --> 01:37:22,080
On learned behave your at we 
want to generalize and and and 

1319
01:37:22,560 --> 01:37:26,480
see in different fessets you're 
you're feed as kind out. 

1320
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:30,880
Momentary your frozen, I think 
you'll come back in a me, it's 

1321
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:34,120
still hear me up for you can. 
At it that up you know. 

1322
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:38,440
I can know i can here you for 
what i can you ok, you're ok. 

1323
01:37:38,440 --> 01:37:41,040
You're a actually my uploading 
is a little slower. 

1324
01:37:41,040 --> 01:37:44,160
Now don't a why still haveing 
five g. 

1325
01:37:46,240 --> 01:37:48,640
So that we're bevor we before 
we. 

1326
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:52,640
Ran out a bevor we ran out a 
time that me that me take my on 

1327
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:56,640
ramind or the talk about 
wellfare so wellfare and 

1328
01:37:56,640 --> 01:38:02,320
prediction, so so we started are
your talking about the dialektic

1329
01:38:02,320 --> 01:38:07,520
between those who addicate the 
us of stricplay appeditive 

1330
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:11,120
control. 
Versus appetitive and aversive 

1331
01:38:11,120 --> 01:38:14,880
control that other don't 
trainers you's right, it's and 

1332
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:19,840
that is based upon it. 
I don't think many people say 

1333
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:24,040
and he more at aversive control 
does and word all the Bf Skinner

1334
01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:28,160
Set aversive control in Word. 
Um two and extested more 

1335
01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:31,360
sitments at avers controll us at
work etc. 

1336
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:35,440
II think now it's more of a 
wellfare argument, which is that

1337
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:39,920
by using avers of control avers 
of control as he cateed with 

1338
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:45,440
with the stress and suffering 
some people. 

1339
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:48,560
Some technation. 
Some trainers think that all can

1340
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:51,920
be acoplash with well use 
positor inforcers. 

1341
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:57,920
Why Stress Your Dog etc. 
So, so was antally the idea 

1342
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:04,080
behind this dipate is that one 
side of the dipate think that it

1343
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:09,280
homs the dogs welfare to have a 
versip control used in train, 

1344
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:13,320
there's subtion is that of or 
sub control equal paint, 

1345
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:16,800
softring and software, and if 
there's a nother wate it do it 

1346
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:21,600
you should do without stress. 
This is assently the sameting a 

1347
01:39:21,600 --> 01:39:29,520
seng that wellfare is the absons
of stress right, but there is 

1348
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:34,880
also a technical school in the 
wellfare journals studing 

1349
01:39:34,880 --> 01:39:40,640
domesticate animals in the last 
fifteener one years that do's 

1350
01:39:40,720 --> 01:39:44,720
not the fine wellfare is the 
absons of stress razer. 

1351
01:39:45,280 --> 01:39:52,320
They Stress in someways they 
emphasize in someways how a low 

1352
01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:56,640
to motret labels of Stress can't
actually have beneficial effects

1353
01:39:56,640 --> 01:40:01,440
on coping funkioning mut all 
that kind of stop and also. 

1354
01:40:02,320 --> 01:40:06,240
They find that that stress so 
franceens her's here's something

1355
01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:10,640
for you stress is off and for 
from, we talked that something 

1356
01:40:10,720 --> 01:40:14,480
earlier earlier cordical 
steeroid haormons stress a 

1357
01:40:14,480 --> 01:40:18,880
laborator is off and in for from
the presens of elevated cordical

1358
01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:22,680
steeroids jeder in saliba or 
Blood etc etc etc. 

1359
01:40:23,440 --> 01:40:28,320
But it's possible show some time
that the cordical steeroid 

1360
01:40:28,320 --> 01:40:31,480
spikes. 
And all rut who have the 

1361
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:36,640
arpertony to made with a female 
rut are hirer, then the cortal 

1362
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:40,400
steroids bikes that the same 
animal shows when it's sharp of 

1363
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:46,240
electricity. 
Ok so, so Cortal Steroid 

1364
01:40:46,240 --> 01:40:52,080
Elovation in the blood, that's 
not a one right completely solid

1365
01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:56,160
indication of the animal is 
stress right so all we're sing 

1366
01:40:56,160 --> 01:41:00,880
is the idea of stress. 
Is more complicated and stress 

1367
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:05,120
is bad what we see do for human 
beings and for animals is 

1368
01:41:05,120 --> 01:41:09,600
minamize the manus stress they 
have an our lots for me a more 

1369
01:41:09,680 --> 01:41:15,280
useful interpretation and one 
that stays coser to anonormas 

1370
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:18,640
body of data that spend 
developed in laboratories is 

1371
01:41:18,640 --> 01:41:22,800
that wellfare is not the appsons
of stress wellfare is the 

1372
01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:26,960
demonstrated ability of the dog 
or the animal. 

1373
01:41:27,360 --> 01:41:32,160
To predet what is going to 
happen to it and then to control

1374
01:41:32,160 --> 01:41:36,960
what will happen to it, so i've 
just finish to alecture that i 

1375
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:41,160
will soon give about learnt 
helplusness one of the point 

1376
01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:42,320
that i make. 
And I'm so all. 

1377
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:46,160
Of the people that are loting 
that's right now of herd about 

1378
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:49,520
learnt helplus is it if you have
and then go read about it will 

1379
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:52,200
bitch is google it in a pop up 
all consumentarial? 

1380
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:56,720
The pointed i make about learn 
tuplesness is that stresses not 

1381
01:41:56,800 --> 01:42:02,960
calls, learn tuplesness it is 
like of the ability to offset to

1382
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:08,240
turn off stress. 
Is what corses the condition 

1383
01:42:08,280 --> 01:42:13,280
that was lable larn helpluses in
the late sixty's right, so it's 

1384
01:42:13,280 --> 01:42:15,760
not the physical properties of 
the stressor. 

1385
01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:21,280
It's the psychological variable 
of a subjektive feeling of one 

1386
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:25,280
aspekt of the stressor. 
What is win it turns off the 

1387
01:42:25,480 --> 01:42:30,800
cors is the defisit call larn 
helpluses so so basicly what I'm

1388
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:35,120
sing is that there two vary a 
important componers. 

1389
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:42,000
That or relevant to stress, but 
they are not measure of stress. 

1390
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:46,160
They're mated measure of animals
ability to cope was stress like 

1391
01:42:46,160 --> 01:42:50,080
you cope was stress in your life
and like i cope was stress in my

1392
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:54,000
like because stress is in 
evitable it can's to all of us 

1393
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:58,000
no my i'm like are percess and 
are society try to protect us 

1394
01:42:58,000 --> 01:43:01,120
from it. 
You are family Stress will.com 

1395
01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:05,040
to all of as and in the end what
a coms down to is how like 

1396
01:43:05,280 --> 01:43:08,760
resilians to we have i'm like 
computance to we have in 

1397
01:43:08,760 --> 01:43:12,320
navigate and i was your stress 
and i was they dogs or on my 

1398
01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:15,680
stiffern so this moter and 
conception of a dogs of a 

1399
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:20,480
laboratory animals or the best 
gate it animals welfare is not 

1400
01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:23,400
this the animal. 
Are they're moments in the 

1401
01:43:23,400 --> 01:43:26,800
anmals live or it do's not show 
positive effect are there 

1402
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:30,320
moments the dogs in the animals 
live, we're it do's not like 

1403
01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:33,440
happy of cors, they're moments 
in the animals live for it do's 

1404
01:43:33,440 --> 01:43:36,440
not like happy do's not show 
positive effect the more 

1405
01:43:36,440 --> 01:43:40,000
important question is can the 
animal predict or will happent 

1406
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:44,160
to it in the next moment and can
it control will happent to it in

1407
01:43:44,160 --> 01:43:49,440
the next mom is or buy engaging 
actively to bring a war. 

1408
01:43:50,160 --> 01:43:55,840
Or by engaging actually to make 
a punisher, go right or engaging

1409
01:43:55,840 --> 01:43:57,240
actually. 
To make a Punisher. 

1410
01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:02,640
Com to and it this is what this 
are from me the muchmore 

1411
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:08,320
relevant and the muchmore 
empiricly farm conclusions from 

1412
01:44:08,320 --> 01:44:12,240
laboratory studies what's 
importing about wellfare is not 

1413
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:16,320
is the dog of a stress what's 
import about wellfare is win new

1414
01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:19,360
train him. 
Do's the dog have dibility to 

1415
01:44:19,360 --> 01:44:23,560
product and control what the 
happen in the x moment, not just

1416
01:44:23,560 --> 01:44:28,960
bads of like punersers, but also
rewards right so. 

1417
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:30,320
So a. 
Moment of go, we. 

1418
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:34,200
Talked about the import so 
prediction rewards and the 

1419
01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:37,080
effekt of making a prediction. 
The annuals going to be a reward

1420
01:44:37,120 --> 01:44:41,120
and and violit in that 
expectation and i was the sexy 

1421
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:44,360
sand and a ware about it don't 
reward the dog you predicture 

1422
01:44:44,360 --> 01:44:47,000
reward, there's not he's not be 
reward it. 

1423
01:44:47,520 --> 01:44:52,400
What that is not to the trag for
my nother farever important 

1424
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:56,400
point with is that prediction is
extrem the important for 

1425
01:44:56,400 --> 01:44:59,680
willfare just is control is 
extrem the important for 

1426
01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:04,880
willfare it is it is there are 
papers that show that a 

1427
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:11,360
laboratory animals if give in a 
choice between hiwalt it in tens

1428
01:45:11,360 --> 01:45:15,200
shock that is not signaled not 
predict. 

1429
01:45:16,960 --> 01:45:19,240
We'll. 
Shoes, I'm sorry, I'm going. 

1430
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:23,680
To changes about you if give in 
a choice between unprediced 

1431
01:45:24,160 --> 01:45:29,200
lower level shock that is not is
intens and hire shock that is 

1432
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:32,160
more intens, but that is signal 
first. 

1433
01:45:32,480 --> 01:45:38,480
They will präferencialy shoes 
the signal more intens shock ok,

1434
01:45:38,480 --> 01:45:40,560
and that is a perry. 
That is a real. 

1435
01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:43,840
That is a reliable finding 
right, so what that's telling us

1436
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:48,800
is that is that production just 
like control is a psychologicly 

1437
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:54,320
very very important variable 
independant of the intensity of 

1438
01:45:54,320 --> 01:45:58,720
the universate so what all of 
this is to say is that for me, 

1439
01:45:58,720 --> 01:46:02,240
what's important is training is 
not do, i have so that see the 

1440
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:07,280
dog look on happy, what's 
important training is or moments

1441
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:11,720
of on happiness or Stress. 
Are they transiateperius two, 

1442
01:46:11,720 --> 01:46:16,040
which the dog makesisway 
successfully and two outies 

1443
01:46:16,040 --> 01:46:20,240
proceders that i equiped to dog 
to bulls to predict and to 

1444
01:46:20,240 --> 01:46:23,920
control what happen to that's 
have provide the dog will 

1445
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:28,040
walfare not by tring all my god 
that's like sure not think bad 

1446
01:46:28,040 --> 01:46:33,360
of a happers to the dog to you 
think it's your job as a pared 

1447
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:37,520
to protecture child from all 
stress that the end that the 

1448
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:42,320
child will eversofer in live. 
Most parers will say no because 

1449
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:45,840
I'm going to dye no. 
I don't can i not product my 

1450
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:49,720
child for mostras but also i'm 
going to dye and then they will 

1451
01:46:49,720 --> 01:46:53,240
have to cope with the world on 
the on myge of is to a quip it 

1452
01:46:53,360 --> 01:46:58,840
is to teach them to cope. 
This is related of my conception

1453
01:46:58,840 --> 01:47:01,320
and dog training. 
My dog is not to pertect my dog 

1454
01:47:01,320 --> 01:47:05,880
for every l straser that's every
going happen my dog is to teach 

1455
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:09,800
the dog to have to dog to be com
the strongest and the most 

1456
01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:13,360
resilian coper that he possible 
can't be. 

1457
01:47:14,320 --> 01:47:16,640
And that you in clues. 
Coping was? 

1458
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:18,720
Stresses? 
That i in to do's to have 

1459
01:47:19,120 --> 01:47:23,440
because i'm need is behabor to 
be different that what other 

1460
01:47:23,440 --> 01:47:28,400
wise be like i'm needim to not 
by to dog nextor I'm needim to 

1461
01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:31,760
not bekommen exideed one a 
chalgos by an a bicagal and one 

1462
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:35,120
a i'm on a chase to chal what 
we're he's doing it because he's

1463
01:47:35,120 --> 01:47:39,920
frendly what he like not the 
chal over and cos an exoner or 

1464
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:43,200
because he feels predatory or 
aggressive right. 

1465
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:48,920
Um so Allstar uptown is that's a
one point, it's a super 

1466
01:47:48,920 --> 01:47:52,240
important point. 
Ja, it is a fee years a. 

1467
01:47:52,240 --> 01:47:55,040
Go II God send this study from 
Jens. 

1468
01:47:55,040 --> 01:47:58,520
It was thread one of or 
educations that i at tend it at 

1469
01:47:58,640 --> 01:48:03,800
ds WDI and it was about the 
three grubs of of Reds and first

1470
01:48:03,800 --> 01:48:08,720
group is in diskage that gets 
heed it or how do you said so 

1471
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:12,240
electristies roning three the 
floor of the kaya that the. 

1472
01:48:12,880 --> 01:48:16,720
The curn in. 
Announced on. 

1473
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:18,560
Elektrofy, we can't so 
elektrofy. 

1474
01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:22,560
And that was a second. 
Group and also discage so the 

1475
01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:26,480
the consequence of the First 
group is was kind of sort of a 

1476
01:48:26,480 --> 01:48:31,760
learned helplusness because the 
the red did not have any 

1477
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:35,400
information about when the 
elektricity with a peer and also

1478
01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:38,560
they did not have any chancees 
to aboid it. 

1479
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:41,880
So when. 
They first going. 

1480
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:48,880
To just to be in the haveing the
go at so the the. 

1481
01:48:50,080 --> 01:48:53,840
Way that learned helplus as has 
classic. 

1482
01:48:53,840 --> 01:48:58,960
We bin studed in the laboratory 
involved in escapable stressors 

1483
01:48:58,960 --> 01:49:02,400
motion off and in escapable 
shock with means there's one 

1484
01:49:02,480 --> 01:49:06,880
aspekt of that stressor that the
animal can controll or not 

1485
01:49:06,880 --> 01:49:12,160
control, which is win it stops. 
Right and when. 

1486
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:14,720
The Animal. 
Subjective to in and tens in 

1487
01:49:14,720 --> 01:49:19,400
escapable straser that has a 
vere perfundeffekt on the 

1488
01:49:19,400 --> 01:49:23,920
animal's physiology immunsystem 
sensitible to pain future 

1489
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:28,000
learning all kind of stop. 
Compared to anuals it 

1490
01:49:28,000 --> 01:49:32,440
experience, exact we the same 
amanda shock shock that happens 

1491
01:49:32,440 --> 01:49:36,360
it exact the the same time exact
the the same intensity starts of

1492
01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:39,880
the same time ands of the same 
time, the ally difference is it 

1493
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:44,520
that annual do's not have the 
subjective sands that true 

1494
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:49,360
behagor up it's on it was ables 
of turn the shock off right so 

1495
01:49:49,360 --> 01:49:53,040
that learn helplus is effekt i's
bin demistrated hundreds of 

1496
01:49:53,040 --> 01:49:54,960
times and hundreds it difference
ways. 

1497
01:49:55,440 --> 01:50:00,680
And it can also be a leviated by
a bunchy different that one 

1498
01:50:00,680 --> 01:50:03,760
thing you can do when an 
amlesman exposed in ascapable 

1499
01:50:03,760 --> 01:50:10,120
shock and and it is prong to 
bekommen helplus in the phase of

1500
01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:13,440
future shocks one thing you can 
do is but for you start to all 

1501
01:50:13,440 --> 01:50:17,600
thing you get the animal experes
with the scapable shock one's 

1502
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:20,320
have in controll shock the 
offsider shock. 

1503
01:50:20,720 --> 01:50:24,720
And animal condent be expose to 
in escapable shock that a can a 

1504
01:50:24,720 --> 01:50:29,440
control and win you tested. 
You can find that the animes not

1505
01:50:29,440 --> 01:50:34,480
hoplus because the animal one's 
have control of shock that nix 

1506
01:50:34,480 --> 01:50:39,120
it resilian in the in the face, 
a subsquint shocks and it 

1507
01:50:39,120 --> 01:50:43,360
abaluses or provence for and 
helpluses there's up that you 

1508
01:50:43,360 --> 01:50:47,360
can do that will also abalus 
larn helpluses one of the me is 

1509
01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:50,160
to do andy think to decrease for
and stress. 

1510
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:53,600
One of the big things that you 
can do to christ here in stress 

1511
01:50:53,760 --> 01:50:57,800
is to signal aversive get the 
animal information about iter 

1512
01:50:57,800 --> 01:51:01,400
the offset of the universive 
orgit the anmine information 

1513
01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:05,960
about the onset of the version 
both the dos manepilations will 

1514
01:51:06,640 --> 01:51:10,480
also a leviate one tulpluses and
this is stop that in another 

1515
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:15,160
week, i'm going to be talking 
about this material in detail in

1516
01:51:15,160 --> 01:51:21,520
a lot of detail in calforn. 
In California unfortunity two 

1517
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:25,960
for right just. 
To stop buy but probly II have 

1518
01:51:26,120 --> 01:51:31,200
is i there is an online. 
There is AA life to apportunity 

1519
01:51:31,200 --> 01:51:34,320
to register for it online so you
don't what it's go. 

1520
01:51:34,560 --> 01:51:38,720
We're going to we're going to do
a sign of feed right so play, so

1521
01:51:38,720 --> 01:51:42,600
people's also register for trily
play send me the links i can't 

1522
01:51:42,640 --> 01:51:45,240
going to to the shownotes. 
And prob people with like to at 

1523
01:51:45,240 --> 01:51:49,600
hand so, but what i want it to 
at to the and i would. 

1524
01:51:52,080 --> 01:51:54,360
It's just me. 
I just want. 

1525
01:51:54,360 --> 01:51:57,680
To at something more to. 
The to the to the red in the 

1526
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:04,400
cage that i start it so this was
the one red, the second group 

1527
01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:10,840
and have the same cage, but the 
the shocks we're announced with 

1528
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:15,600
a little lamp or something and 
that was a third group and they 

1529
01:52:15,600 --> 01:52:19,160
good even change the position 
to. 

1530
01:52:19,840 --> 01:52:23,400
Not being shocked, so the shock 
was announced like in the second

1531
01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:27,360
group, but the red had the 
chance to not being shocked of 

1532
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:29,680
course. 
This was away of learning, the 

1533
01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:33,680
red catreal is a hoi ok, the 
flories electrified i need to 

1534
01:52:33,680 --> 01:52:41,880
change position to to run to 
security or not being harmed and

1535
01:52:41,880 --> 01:52:45,120
them interesting thing for me 
personally and is study was and 

1536
01:52:45,120 --> 01:52:47,920
for sure you know it but maybeal
interesting for alisoners. 

1537
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:52,480
That in the very beginning of 
the study, all the red's show, 

1538
01:52:52,600 --> 01:52:58,720
the same symptoms and and had 
similar scores, talking about 

1539
01:52:58,720 --> 01:53:03,920
cortisol etc. 
So Feeling the Stress, denn 

1540
01:53:04,240 --> 01:53:05,760
three out the. 
Time the. 

1541
01:53:05,760 --> 01:53:10,000
First group changed behavior 
because did not show the stress 

1542
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:12,840
symptoms stages became did int 
react to. 

1543
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:17,040
Like to the suffer that they 
when for they just we're in the 

1544
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:19,760
case, this is, this is the 
signal. 

1545
01:53:19,880 --> 01:53:23,440
This is the signal shot group 
that the group that we're shot 

1546
01:53:23,720 --> 01:53:28,480
the shot was in escape of a but 
they're at the warn korrekt, no 

1547
01:53:28,640 --> 01:53:30,240
no they have no warning so they 
they're. 

1548
01:53:30,240 --> 01:53:35,720
Not we're notable to know when 
they would be shocked and and 

1549
01:53:35,720 --> 01:53:39,720
they but they have the frual to 
blood and celevia test. 

1550
01:53:39,720 --> 01:53:43,360
They we're like stressed for out
twenty for seven. 

1551
01:53:43,600 --> 01:53:47,360
If i have a cricket in my mind, 
the second group with the signal

1552
01:53:48,360 --> 01:53:53,480
they had quide AA good time 
until being shocked, but there's

1553
01:53:53,480 --> 01:53:57,600
stress levels a level up when 
they wer's cute. 

1554
01:53:57,600 --> 01:54:04,000
Ok, a shock is a had in 5 for 
free one shock so they we're 

1555
01:54:04,800 --> 01:54:10,480
showing the systems like in the 
beginning when the light was on.

1556
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:15,120
They started being stressed out 
and the third group they showed 

1557
01:54:15,120 --> 01:54:20,080
similar symptoms when the light 
when on like ok shit is on the 

1558
01:54:20,080 --> 01:54:23,840
fan, but now we have to change 
position for not being shocked 

1559
01:54:24,400 --> 01:54:30,400
so they had not the same 
cortisol level in there blood 

1560
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:35,120
even do they showed very similar
symptoms, so so what the 

1561
01:54:35,120 --> 01:54:39,160
research is could see. 
The the rating group, two and 

1562
01:54:39,160 --> 01:54:43,960
three who are both signaled to 
be shocked right away at similar

1563
01:54:43,960 --> 01:54:47,840
systems, but the third group 
could escape and felted much 

1564
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:51,280
better. 
So also to the third Group 

1565
01:54:51,280 --> 01:54:55,640
escape or could it. 
A all they they. 

1566
01:54:55,640 --> 01:55:00,200
Aboid it by escaping, so 
changing position in the cage, 

1567
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:03,680
they can't like i got a warning 
so on leving. 

1568
01:55:03,760 --> 01:55:06,080
The room. 
There's it. 

1569
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:10,160
There's it there's a that's call
of oidens responding escape in a

1570
01:55:10,160 --> 01:55:15,760
formel like loggal context is is
something procise and differed 

1571
01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:18,320
right. 
I'm can so, so the thirgup of 

1572
01:55:18,320 --> 01:55:21,680
rats could a void, that's just 
escape shot they could a void 

1573
01:55:21,920 --> 01:55:25,800
shot and II want to stand ok 
escape. 

1574
01:55:25,800 --> 01:55:31,840
In a void is referance is. 
That mc sance and for the 

1575
01:55:31,840 --> 01:55:35,680
frenchelizoners. 
Sella Distigs, Distangsion 

1576
01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:44,880
Ontqua SAP EVT. 
I there to do a shoes differant 

1577
01:55:45,200 --> 01:55:48,880
disting distangtomal differant 
tribian. 

1578
01:55:49,840 --> 01:55:56,080
Sesa what Sesa. 
Grate. 

1579
01:55:57,680 --> 01:55:59,680
I don't know I'm that'm. 
So you have left. 

1580
01:55:59,680 --> 01:56:03,200
But we've we've can't probly 
comperty. 

1581
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:06,800
Quickly to an end, but but like 
me say something about that so 

1582
01:56:07,760 --> 01:56:13,200
you talk to a little bit about 
you know one grup of raz was in 

1583
01:56:13,200 --> 01:56:17,560
your in your example, one grup 
of raz was exposed to 

1584
01:56:17,960 --> 01:56:21,680
unpredicable and in escapable 
shark. 

1585
01:56:22,160 --> 01:56:26,320
Now it was no unpredictable 
completely right because 

1586
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:31,240
probible this rat's live in a 
homepage and for the experiments

1587
01:56:31,240 --> 01:56:35,640
there bro in to an operate 
conditioning change so the kuse 

1588
01:56:35,640 --> 01:56:41,680
of contax tell the rat oh ship 
shock happenser, but i'm going 

1589
01:56:41,680 --> 01:56:45,840
to be here for the next two ours
and i do not know win that 

1590
01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:51,120
chockers going to a car this 
produzes the most in tens kind 

1591
01:56:51,120 --> 01:56:56,800
of anxidy. 
And it produces coping that 

1592
01:56:56,800 --> 01:56:58,240
involved. 
Shoting. 

1593
01:56:58,240 --> 01:57:05,600
Down and taking it and during it
right, the second grup of rats 

1594
01:57:07,120 --> 01:57:09,520
they can not a. 
Void or escape? 

1595
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:14,920
Shark but they know when it's 
coming and the abidance. 

1596
01:57:14,920 --> 01:57:18,000
Is. 
From the cor if the work was 

1597
01:57:18,000 --> 01:57:20,320
well done, now, one has to be 
carful. 

1598
01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:26,960
And tulperding cortical steroid 
spikes because it's not like you

1599
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:30,880
like at one grup of animals with
one number for cortical steroid 

1600
01:57:30,880 --> 01:57:33,280
labels. 
You like another number and you 

1601
01:57:33,280 --> 01:57:37,680
can conplued conplued without 
other information that this 

1602
01:57:37,680 --> 01:57:40,160
bunch of animals feals wears the
not bunch of out. 

1603
01:57:40,640 --> 01:57:43,760
Because cortical steeroids are 
not just a function of how much 

1604
01:57:43,760 --> 01:57:48,080
to stress the animal feels there
also a function of coping right 

1605
01:57:48,640 --> 01:57:53,200
so at coping and coping as an 
independant function from 

1606
01:57:53,440 --> 01:57:57,640
softring or not sofring right, 
but that's the word was welldone

1607
01:57:57,760 --> 01:58:01,600
and that there's evidance that 
for the two ours in the chamber,

1608
01:58:02,000 --> 01:58:07,440
the rass in the signal condition
spät pritor time pierce of time 

1609
01:58:07,440 --> 01:58:11,040
bevor the Signal. 
We're cortico steerright levels,

1610
01:58:11,040 --> 01:58:13,920
we're low and behaval 
indications we're that the dogs 

1611
01:58:13,920 --> 01:58:17,920
what that the ras we're unhibit 
in the fell fine and then when 

1612
01:58:17,920 --> 01:58:21,360
the signal cam that chocos going
to.com then they got in the 

1613
01:58:21,360 --> 01:58:26,800
state that the other ras we're 
in all the time right so one 

1614
01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:34,080
right a look at that oneing 
signal is that it blogs the 

1615
01:58:34,080 --> 01:58:38,080
contact to a kus. 
The animals no onger. 

1616
01:58:38,080 --> 01:58:40,600
Thinking if. 
Animals think but but's, but it 

1617
01:58:40,600 --> 01:58:44,560
an ends of mobile act times, the
animals no onger thinking with 

1618
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:48,800
I'm in this chamber, I'm in big 
trubble the animals thinking 

1619
01:58:48,880 --> 01:58:53,120
will the chambers ok what the 
combination of the chamber plus 

1620
01:58:53,120 --> 01:58:57,440
the like or plus the ton then i 
have to get or it and i have to 

1621
01:58:57,440 --> 01:59:02,040
beginn coping i have AI have 
learn to cope right, but the mom

1622
01:59:02,040 --> 01:59:05,640
of the chuck is off. 
I'm just back with the chamber 

1623
01:59:05,680 --> 01:59:08,880
and i am safe, so the animal 
no's clearly win. 

1624
01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:12,280
It's safeing win, it's not the 
first group of anamles can't 

1625
01:59:12,280 --> 01:59:17,440
only go by the presents of the 
of the cuse in the chamber and 

1626
01:59:17,440 --> 01:59:19,360
potesually by. 
Temporal or. 

1627
01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:24,960
Timbase cuse about win shock, 
it's more likely and if cores 

1628
01:59:24,960 --> 01:59:29,600
thermors the more anches the 
rads in the last group, not only

1629
01:59:29,600 --> 01:59:33,920
have warning. 
But they have in the cores of 

1630
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:38,960
training, they probly have two 
ways of controlling one was in 

1631
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:42,480
the really phases of a voidness 
learning when they were scaping 

1632
01:59:42,640 --> 01:59:48,240
like goes on shot goes on animal
trans of shot by shoteling 

1633
01:59:48,240 --> 01:59:50,880
that's a have you're going to 
the otherside the cage is call 

1634
01:59:50,880 --> 01:59:54,800
shoteling and in. 
So or me on the enemlate. 

1635
01:59:54,840 --> 01:59:58,080
The uperts are. 
You to escape shock by move in a

1636
01:59:58,080 --> 02:00:02,360
wave from it that is an off to 
pervent learn helplist us, but 

1637
02:00:02,400 --> 02:00:04,960
it's upsquently the animals 
developed. 

1638
02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:09,520
We're just bonding as well we're
a like goes on or tom goes on 

1639
02:00:09,880 --> 02:00:13,520
the animals move a wave from 
we're shock, we'll take plays 

1640
02:00:13,760 --> 02:00:18,840
and they every experance shock. 
This animals reliable 

1641
02:00:18,840 --> 02:00:23,840
observations or that afro full 
flash to vains or sponing takes 

1642
02:00:23,840 --> 02:00:29,520
plase fear labels are verylow 
and wellfare is very high. 

1643
02:00:32,720 --> 02:00:37,760
So it's this to to make a. 
Circle some kind of 

1644
02:00:37,760 --> 02:00:39,200
conditioning. 
A safety q. 

1645
02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:43,440
Ja because because. 
In the in the context. 

1646
02:00:44,240 --> 02:00:47,480
In the contact and which the 
anmals have a predictive pue, 

1647
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:54,960
telling them win shock, we'll 
take plays they there for 

1648
02:00:55,200 --> 02:00:59,200
invosity by implication have a 
long perry drang, we're they 

1649
02:00:59,200 --> 02:01:04,480
know there're sex the animal who
successly shutles there two as a

1650
02:01:04,480 --> 02:01:08,560
dealing with that experimental i
can deside to give the animal a 

1651
02:01:08,560 --> 02:01:13,760
marke that's as you have 
successly avid. 

1652
02:01:14,880 --> 02:01:19,520
But eben if i don't do that that
just not mean that safety kus do

1653
02:01:19,880 --> 02:01:22,520
not play a roll. 
There's a gratulate evidance 

1654
02:01:22,520 --> 02:01:26,480
that the safety kus that the 
animal creates for it self 

1655
02:01:26,560 --> 02:01:32,960
meaning in the pass will i have 
shut up and move my lex and no 

1656
02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:37,840
that i change my location i have
not fill shark there for the 

1657
02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:42,960
feedback kus from skeletal moman
becom safety kus. 

1658
02:01:43,440 --> 02:01:47,040
In the samway it in my, my 
example for this is i'ride 

1659
02:01:47,040 --> 02:01:49,720
bottercycles i'ride what in 
englisch, we're cold dirtbike, 

1660
02:01:49,720 --> 02:01:53,200
so it's you're like motocross 
bikes and dürro bikes and so 

1661
02:01:53,280 --> 02:01:59,280
like that so you crash a lot it 
hurts used the speed are lo so 

1662
02:01:59,280 --> 02:02:03,280
you get backup and you get back 
in your motorcycle and ride what

1663
02:02:03,280 --> 02:02:06,800
that means is that if i'm the go
shate a particular diffical 

1664
02:02:06,800 --> 02:02:11,760
plate on a tracker a trial. 
And I don't so sucessly in the 

1665
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:17,360
pass, i know that feeling of 
going on my motorcycle and all 

1666
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:21,600
will be well. 
I will Not crash, i will not 

1667
02:02:21,600 --> 02:02:26,280
feel pane and also i will feel 
exaltation because i have don't 

1668
02:02:26,280 --> 02:02:31,440
something difficult well right 
los are feed back. 

1669
02:02:31,440 --> 02:02:34,560
You's. 
Talking to me and becoming 

1670
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:38,720
positive reinforces of my behave
so what I'm end to do think to 

1671
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:41,720
you. 
Is the idea that mabi a rat at 

1672
02:02:41,720 --> 02:02:45,360
very highlables of a vains 
response, it go's hangs out 

1673
02:02:45,520 --> 02:02:50,160
relaxes grooms that's the stop 
rats do a go's, oh, there's 

1674
02:02:50,240 --> 02:02:55,440
that's light I'm in a shadel 
I've don't get I'm sucessal my 

1675
02:02:55,440 --> 02:02:59,280
feed back, he's tell me I'm 
sucessal got i love a vaiding 

1676
02:02:59,280 --> 02:03:03,920
it's fuck it grey i'd I've going
it i be a power for. 

1677
02:03:03,920 --> 02:03:06,880
One, I'm so good. 
It that's right and that's call 

1678
02:03:07,200 --> 02:03:11,440
it in laboratories. 
That it's good the state of 

1679
02:03:11,440 --> 02:03:16,760
being and which the animal shows
there a high levels of coping is

1680
02:03:16,760 --> 02:03:20,800
some time's called mastery. 
I'm makeing gasses about what 

1681
02:03:20,800 --> 02:03:25,320
Mastery feels like for red, I 
don't know what I can time what 

1682
02:03:25,360 --> 02:03:30,320
red Mastery feels like for me 
and the times win i feel the 

1683
02:03:30,320 --> 02:03:33,560
greatest. 
So the positive in fors but 

1684
02:03:33,560 --> 02:03:38,080
rewarding value as a result of 
demistrating mastery is one. 

1685
02:03:38,080 --> 02:03:41,920
I'm a little in danger because 
i'm do in something that can get

1686
02:03:41,920 --> 02:03:47,520
me hot and this r as i say and 
some and r this r the experses 

1687
02:03:47,520 --> 02:03:51,320
and i live that I'm remember the
mos right right in the 

1688
02:03:51,320 --> 02:03:56,160
motorcycle going fast not 
crashing going down the river in

1689
02:03:56,160 --> 02:03:59,120
my kiak not have in this swim 
out of it. 

1690
02:03:59,440 --> 02:04:02,720
Right like doing it right, so 
it's not just that i get to the 

1691
02:04:02,720 --> 02:04:05,760
palmic go. 
Oh, i don't get her, i do the 

1692
02:04:05,760 --> 02:04:08,720
right, think it the right time 
with my boot and my paddle and i

1693
02:04:08,720 --> 02:04:13,120
go that's what i do this sport 
that's white row five outers up 

1694
02:04:13,120 --> 02:04:16,080
in the mountains that's what i 
god this morning, that's what i 

1695
02:04:16,080 --> 02:04:19,520
god in this sue because the 
water so call that's what i do 

1696
02:04:19,520 --> 02:04:23,600
it i get in it get because it's 
an out of to re for me to learn 

1697
02:04:23,920 --> 02:04:27,840
to develup and the practice 
mastery and mastery feels 

1698
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:32,160
fucking go. 
Right and what what I'm implying

1699
02:04:32,160 --> 02:04:36,720
to you and suggesting they be 
the case is that mastery feels 

1700
02:04:36,720 --> 02:04:40,640
good for animals is well, and 
that master of this kind is 

1701
02:04:40,720 --> 02:04:43,600
onlyed of out win there are 
risks. 

1702
02:04:46,960 --> 02:04:54,080
Is yeah, I'm lacking of the of 
aquote that I've red in one of 

1703
02:04:54,080 --> 02:04:58,400
robert supporskis books. 
Code behave and you're fusure 

1704
02:04:58,400 --> 02:05:02,560
very will aware of that there is
a graph of it. 

1705
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:07,560
We're it's about, we're a rain 
forsons catchles and and t what 

1706
02:05:07,560 --> 02:05:12,400
is it it's like a calculated 
risk that people go to casinos 

1707
02:05:12,400 --> 02:05:16,800
and and play with this things 
because it's very well known 

1708
02:05:16,800 --> 02:05:22,400
what could happen and what could
not happen and that's the thrill

1709
02:05:22,400 --> 02:05:27,280
of it also noing. 
What? 

1710
02:05:27,280 --> 02:05:31,760
My what what what good. 
Things or it as you as you I'm 

1711
02:05:31,760 --> 02:05:35,840
really haveing problems in 
thinking english, but the it's 

1712
02:05:35,840 --> 02:05:39,400
it's it's gamling. 
Behave there is a off and 

1713
02:05:40,000 --> 02:05:43,520
interped it's strickly in terms 
of randomery in forcement and 

1714
02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:48,320
randomery in forcement is certly
certly ralaba to the probalance 

1715
02:05:48,320 --> 02:05:53,120
of gamling but. 
There are complex, physiological

1716
02:05:53,120 --> 02:05:56,960
and also cargon effectors one of
things that suppolski points out

1717
02:05:57,200 --> 02:06:02,160
is that enthessip to a q's the 
beginn to be com proxies for 

1718
02:06:02,160 --> 02:06:08,640
rean forcer's so and enthessipor
to AQ that teles me i'm about to

1719
02:06:08,640 --> 02:06:15,200
be rean fors begins to in a way 
play the. 

1720
02:06:15,200 --> 02:06:17,920
Roll of the rean forcer bevored.
A rifes. 

1721
02:06:18,240 --> 02:06:20,880
Right, it's not just supper of 
nector that the reanforcer's 

1722
02:06:20,880 --> 02:06:24,440
going to have and it's stars of 
a com and end of in it self and 

1723
02:06:24,440 --> 02:06:28,560
then there also complicated 
human dynamics and cargin of 

1724
02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:32,880
dynamics about that that i you 
of gaming a hi that i you 

1725
02:06:33,000 --> 02:06:39,160
unexpected for war versus I'm 
lousing other a so a lot of are 

1726
02:06:39,160 --> 02:06:43,120
a complex psychology can's in a 
play a people it understand that

1727
02:06:43,240 --> 02:06:47,480
a study gamling. 
Think about the lot ofariables 

1728
02:06:47,600 --> 02:06:51,440
at once, it's not is simple, 
just as randomineforcement also 

1729
02:06:51,920 --> 02:06:55,440
you're really in a gamling have 
it i think randomineforcement is

1730
02:06:55,520 --> 02:07:00,080
really really important to get 
the gamling going, but then 

1731
02:07:00,080 --> 02:07:03,840
later on i don't think gamling 
is that socerity main tane but 

1732
02:07:03,840 --> 02:07:08,080
nothing but low probibility hi 
that i rewards it's main tane by

1733
02:07:08,080 --> 02:07:11,680
a the prozess is what like a 
bitch or constroning i'gansist 

1734
02:07:11,680 --> 02:07:17,440
up. 
Gut, i have a lot of take. 

1735
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:21,280
Aways from from this 
conversation, so thank you so 

1736
02:07:21,280 --> 02:07:25,360
much for taking the time last 
but not least i have this 

1737
02:07:26,000 --> 02:07:30,800
question from my previous guest.
So I'm all was asking makeest to

1738
02:07:30,840 --> 02:07:34,720
ask question for the next one, 
not knowing who it is or who it 

1739
02:07:34,720 --> 02:07:39,920
will be and i last i that's very
good i like that. 

1740
02:07:40,320 --> 02:07:44,600
Grate, Grate, so my last guest. 
Was apart from the conversations

1741
02:07:44,600 --> 02:07:48,880
between Chris and me was 
magister Carl weissenbacher he's

1742
02:07:48,880 --> 02:07:54,720
also veterinarian or vet and 
he's in George of the prüf und 

1743
02:07:54,720 --> 02:07:57,680
Koordinierungsstelle of the 
Messely Institute at the Vetmet 

1744
02:07:57,680 --> 02:08:02,240
University in Vienna, so they or
basically responsible for the 

1745
02:08:02,240 --> 02:08:07,400
federal tests for animal 
verithere it RS. 

1746
02:08:09,040 --> 02:08:11,040
Also dog train up but. 
He's more doing. 

1747
02:08:11,600 --> 02:08:14,720
Dogs cool and Puppy Training 
etc. 

1748
02:08:15,440 --> 02:08:18,800
What he's haveing in he's ont 
club what he's a grate think we 

1749
02:08:18,800 --> 02:08:20,560
need more people like that in 
the world. 

1750
02:08:20,560 --> 02:08:23,680
Right train wetter in and's 
trends like all of just who are 

1751
02:08:23,760 --> 02:08:28,160
also practitioners he's the sure
but right that i will tast for 

1752
02:08:28,160 --> 02:08:30,480
sure it was a grate, it was a 
grate conversation. 

1753
02:08:30,480 --> 02:08:33,720
I will send you to link it's 
german do, but they be you you 

1754
02:08:33,720 --> 02:08:38,320
get the feeling. 
So he's a question was a not 

1755
02:08:38,320 --> 02:08:43,360
knowing would will be and II 
hope the translation in gets the

1756
02:08:43,360 --> 02:08:50,480
point, so it's it. 
I just ready to you probably 

1757
02:08:50,480 --> 02:08:54,520
definity the fundamental 
coexistance in society can be 

1758
02:08:54,520 --> 02:08:58,640
improved bove in terms of human,
human and human animal 

1759
02:08:58,640 --> 02:09:04,000
interactions and what influences
can we have as individuals on 

1760
02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:09,640
this. 
So wie's question is how can we 

1761
02:09:09,640 --> 02:09:14,320
influence? 
The und das ist ihre Frage für 

1762
02:09:14,320 --> 02:09:17,200
mich this. 
Is it? 

1763
02:09:17,840 --> 02:09:24,520
Ok. 
The the first the first is to 

1764
02:09:24,800 --> 02:09:30,080
not mistake that i'm you know a 
talk specifically about dogs and

1765
02:09:30,080 --> 02:09:33,200
dog track. 
The first is not to mistake the 

1766
02:09:33,200 --> 02:09:37,680
dog for something that he's not 
that's remember what the dog is 

1767
02:09:37,680 --> 02:09:43,600
which is a hilly domesticated 
selective bread and sessral 

1768
02:09:43,920 --> 02:09:46,960
predator with the organs of 
milf. 

1769
02:09:47,520 --> 02:09:51,400
And also with the organs of 
behavior, still intact to engage

1770
02:09:51,400 --> 02:09:55,120
and predator behavior, social 
aggressive and and social 

1771
02:09:55,120 --> 02:09:59,120
competitive and aggressive 
behavior behavior of all kinds, 

1772
02:09:59,400 --> 02:10:03,400
the lifeful behavior lovel b 
behavior and also far from the 

1773
02:10:03,400 --> 02:10:08,160
lifeful and far and far from 
lovel b behavior i so that's be 

1774
02:10:08,160 --> 02:10:12,800
acured about with the dogs or. 
Respectum for what they are also

1775
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:16,160
love them for what they are 
because they disrerved as 

1776
02:10:16,160 --> 02:10:21,200
marvels of nature and also we 
make are soles better in loving 

1777
02:10:21,200 --> 02:10:24,760
them eving when they can't be 
far back and they can't be at 

1778
02:10:24,760 --> 02:10:28,560
the call back i think and only 
be dogs, but we make are soles 

1779
02:10:28,560 --> 02:10:32,080
better, but i treating them 
fairly and the best of we posly 

1780
02:10:32,080 --> 02:10:35,520
can and by loving them right so 
a number one that's not mistake 

1781
02:10:35,680 --> 02:10:39,200
what they are next that's be com
knowled will. 

1782
02:10:39,640 --> 02:10:44,080
About what Science reallieses 
not just dependance about about 

1783
02:10:44,080 --> 02:10:49,920
how to mo successly word with 
there behater and also how 

1784
02:10:49,920 --> 02:10:54,120
to.com the conclusions about 
what wellfare is for a do what 

1785
02:10:54,120 --> 02:11:00,480
stress is for a do and then also
that's make fortful. 

1786
02:11:00,480 --> 02:11:05,280
Decisions. 
About the Harms. 

1787
02:11:05,360 --> 02:11:08,320
That.com. 
First of all from certan kinds 

1788
02:11:08,320 --> 02:11:11,680
of Training. 
What is what Certan Community's 

1789
02:11:11,680 --> 02:11:14,400
in Dog Training love the talk 
about is the arms of certan 

1790
02:11:14,400 --> 02:11:18,320
kinds of training, but they 
don't tend a talk about the homs

1791
02:11:18,320 --> 02:11:23,040
of failing to get the dog 
trained right. 

1792
02:11:23,720 --> 02:11:27,680
There's a cost. 
There there's a home there, so 

1793
02:11:27,880 --> 02:11:32,000
that's informer selbst about 
behador that's informer selbst 

1794
02:11:32,040 --> 02:11:36,000
about the Dogs. 
That's informer's about what 

1795
02:11:36,000 --> 02:11:40,000
science ses about learning 
behador and and findly that's be

1796
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:44,720
thaful about the entire 
situation and mic the offal 

1797
02:11:44,720 --> 02:11:50,720
decisions about ok II can pete 
and agility and order to get 

1798
02:11:50,720 --> 02:11:55,920
this one exercise i can mic my 
dog faster and i can bekommen 

1799
02:11:55,920 --> 02:12:00,760
more like to win atrophy if i 
put very much pressure right 

1800
02:12:00,800 --> 02:12:03,440
here to make just the right 
performance. 

1801
02:12:04,640 --> 02:12:06,920
It's bekomms. 
Aquestion is it is it? 

1802
02:12:06,920 --> 02:12:11,600
Ethicly want it to put prusure 
on your dog to make this jump a 

1803
02:12:11,600 --> 02:12:14,720
little more korrekt to make your
sof a little more sucess von 

1804
02:12:14,720 --> 02:12:16,840
competition. 
I don't know it's some think we 

1805
02:12:16,840 --> 02:12:21,480
can talk about right because. 
Because if i put a mal a lot of 

1806
02:12:21,480 --> 02:12:23,680
a trubble in to training my dog,
it means it. 

1807
02:12:23,760 --> 02:12:27,440
My Dog has a very bitch days, 
we're in a rat will them all 

1808
02:12:27,440 --> 02:12:31,360
they long and i spend all we can
with them and sofort and so all 

1809
02:12:31,360 --> 02:12:34,320
of this has to be factored in to
weather, not it's attic leed the

1810
02:12:34,560 --> 02:12:37,960
fensible for me to but prusion 
on what it the end of the day 

1811
02:12:37,960 --> 02:12:41,960
it's just a trophy samed off 
that's. 

1812
02:12:42,200 --> 02:12:45,720
Say that the. 
Predatory Instinct that I us to 

1813
02:12:45,720 --> 02:12:49,440
drive the dogs performance. 
In agility because it the andy 

1814
02:12:49,440 --> 02:12:53,560
get's to by something that's say
that that bekomme's at touch to 

1815
02:12:53,560 --> 02:12:58,600
traffic of vehicles on the 
highway you know have a colomet 

1816
02:12:58,600 --> 02:13:01,120
of for my house. 
That's say it at bekommen's 

1817
02:13:01,120 --> 02:13:05,520
attracted to dear in the what's,
that's it bekommen's attracted 

1818
02:13:05,680 --> 02:13:10,320
to it it bekommen's at touch to 
my next door nabors fideral song

1819
02:13:11,440 --> 02:13:13,800
now if. 
I have away. 

1820
02:13:14,320 --> 02:13:17,120
Of Controlling and korrekt in 
this behave of that evolve's 

1821
02:13:17,120 --> 02:13:22,040
prusure is the calculus 
different now and not is I'm not

1822
02:13:22,040 --> 02:13:26,280
talking about walking Dogs. 
No is I'm not sing that that 

1823
02:13:26,280 --> 02:13:30,080
ethics balance to the training 
of companion Dogs and pets with 

1824
02:13:30,360 --> 02:13:33,400
the ethics or different for 
Walking Dogs, no Ethics or 

1825
02:13:33,400 --> 02:13:36,880
ethics, what what changes is the
steaks. 

1826
02:13:37,520 --> 02:13:41,640
The Harms of not geting the Dog 
trained if you're Training a 

1827
02:13:41,640 --> 02:13:46,640
certan Kind of Walking Dog and 
you're massed up people dye if 

1828
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:50,640
you're training unother kind of 
company dog and you're massed up

1829
02:13:51,200 --> 02:13:55,840
some times, it's a or trivial my
stick or a trivial fill or if 

1830
02:13:55,840 --> 02:13:58,640
you're training in agility, 
maybe don't win the title but on

1831
02:13:58,640 --> 02:14:01,760
the other hand if you're agility
was a trick that shase the 

1832
02:14:01,760 --> 02:14:06,400
trafic on the highway, maybe 
your fill your in training kills

1833
02:14:06,400 --> 02:14:09,440
the dog. 
And in my opinion, this simplice

1834
02:14:09,440 --> 02:14:13,600
two things one of them is that 
the FX of using prussure or not 

1835
02:14:13,680 --> 02:14:17,280
using prussure are the term and 
by the outcome of the training 

1836
02:14:17,680 --> 02:14:21,440
what or the steaks and that the 
steaks. 

1837
02:14:21,440 --> 02:14:25,080
Can be very. 
Hi for Company Dogs, not just 

1838
02:14:25,080 --> 02:14:32,400
Walking Dogs. 
Rate rate we're anize onser i 

1839
02:14:32,400 --> 02:14:36,880
will sentim the link to. 
This show and to you're onser 

1840
02:14:37,680 --> 02:14:40,880
and so now it's about you what 
is you're question to the 

1841
02:14:40,920 --> 02:14:49,480
unknown guest? 
Well, that's get me get me. 

1842
02:14:49,480 --> 02:14:52,160
Just a moment you can. 
You can't kind out when you add 

1843
02:14:52,160 --> 02:14:57,280
it for the interview you can you
can't kind out me going to me 

1844
02:14:57,400 --> 02:14:58,480
so. 
No, it's it's good. 

1845
02:14:58,480 --> 02:15:02,560
I like the thinker posting. 
And I'm Trend the think Weather.

1846
02:15:02,680 --> 02:15:08,240
A fills offical question we're. 
Be attacking to go avery. 

1847
02:15:08,320 --> 02:15:14,400
Direction. 
Ok, I'm going to. 

1848
02:15:16,080 --> 02:15:26,120
I me see i me think about this 
ok, i'm in a Post. 

1849
02:15:26,560 --> 02:15:30,640
I'm in a Poster questure. 
So so, this is this is aquestion

1850
02:15:30,640 --> 02:15:33,040
to which i have in it's not 
technical. 

1851
02:15:33,440 --> 02:15:37,840
It's more at the call, it's more
as a do with the philosity of 

1852
02:15:37,840 --> 02:15:41,520
dog, keeping and training so who
have a coms on have to me 

1853
02:15:43,200 --> 02:15:48,080
probible as a point of you on as
but i reasonly talk to some 

1854
02:15:48,080 --> 02:15:52,480
buddy who engage in the 
discussion about the dialektic 

1855
02:15:52,480 --> 02:15:56,920
between Curry positive Dog 
Training versus all the Dog 

1856
02:15:56,920 --> 02:16:00,560
Training. 
And one of my friend you was 

1857
02:16:00,560 --> 02:16:08,120
talking to this person. 
The person assentally set that 

1858
02:16:08,120 --> 02:16:09,760
it. 
Is. 

1859
02:16:09,760 --> 02:16:14,800
Inproper on affical inhumane to 
us pressure and dog training 

1860
02:16:15,280 --> 02:16:21,520
because the dog can out consent 
to be involve in the situation. 

1861
02:16:22,160 --> 02:16:24,640
Wie sagt man consent auf 
Deutsch? 

1862
02:16:26,240 --> 02:16:28,720
I have. 
To figure it out, kind is. 

1863
02:16:29,520 --> 02:16:34,760
That's my ich. 
Ich gebe meine my agreement to 

1864
02:16:36,160 --> 02:16:38,240
what is going to have II I'm. 
Concent it. 

1865
02:16:38,480 --> 02:16:45,120
I have a greet ja ok so, so so, 
so, You Can't you, you can't us 

1866
02:16:45,120 --> 02:16:50,639
persure and dog training because
i can see the Dogs consent one I

1867
02:16:50,799 --> 02:16:54,879
Profite foo what the dog can a 
Profite consent. 

1868
02:16:55,600 --> 02:17:01,120
To unaversit procedure, this is 
the this is essential the 

1869
02:17:01,120 --> 02:17:07,040
question that was posted to my 
fran he have an answer i have an

1870
02:17:07,040 --> 02:17:10,120
answer that's see what your next
interview subject ses about what

1871
02:17:10,120 --> 02:17:14,879
to they think about the issue of
can a dog give concept do train 

1872
02:17:14,879 --> 02:17:20,559
dogs give concept should i limit
myself only two things behave or

1873
02:17:20,559 --> 02:17:24,160
training proceeders to which the
dog gives is concept. 

1874
02:17:24,559 --> 02:17:30,719
Or consut Rate. 
I will love to ask this or for 

1875
02:17:30,719 --> 02:17:34,480
what this question to are next 
guest onestly i have know clue 

1876
02:17:34,480 --> 02:17:38,120
yet to it will be so I've just 
had a series of quad of your 

1877
02:17:38,120 --> 02:17:41,440
episodes now probly they will be
a little break, but i will 

1878
02:17:41,440 --> 02:17:44,480
definity like you know who it 
will be and i will send you the 

1879
02:17:44,480 --> 02:17:51,280
link to that episode so ok and 
before we. 

1880
02:17:51,280 --> 02:17:53,760
Go that me say. 
And the on France. 

1881
02:17:54,799 --> 02:18:00,719
We'll game me not PC, you're a 
grat.com of franceay they pass 

1882
02:18:00,760 --> 02:18:06,840
as a pur conductation on 
franceay mishes fair covulco i 

1883
02:18:06,840 --> 02:18:10,799
was going to say just you that i
have to do english was was 

1884
02:18:10,799 --> 02:18:18,440
sufficient for the axly no that 
i just spare covultron Glay lay 

1885
02:18:18,480 --> 02:18:23,520
Spectator Lay lay conquerant. 
Because what's on glay a sufis 

1886
02:18:23,520 --> 02:18:29,040
on for my compunker just bare 
the wrong contray was personal 

1887
02:18:29,040 --> 02:18:35,559
Mont don't have an new oh what 
oh of what. 

1888
02:18:36,400 --> 02:18:38,840
I did not it and the stand 
everything but i will that's not

1889
02:18:38,840 --> 02:18:41,400
all like is my franchise so bad 
but hofly. 

1890
02:18:41,680 --> 02:18:45,520
Hofly they got the point i 
because i start it. 

1891
02:18:46,000 --> 02:18:47,840
II. 
Start A Forest in German Dog 

1892
02:18:47,840 --> 02:18:51,120
Training and then in the mid 
adies I've can interested and 

1893
02:18:51,120 --> 02:18:53,680
french dog training and the 
french. 

1894
02:18:53,840 --> 02:19:01,600
The French Sinofeel Lay Sinofeel
Frances A Franca von Saint Prey 

1895
02:19:01,600 --> 02:19:07,080
Domonque. 
Verinice verinice a. 

1896
02:19:07,520 --> 02:19:12,680
Mabi I Hope we will have to time
talk about do's experience is 

1897
02:19:12,680 --> 02:19:17,120
and adventure. 
Of you and being in in Europe 

1898
02:19:17,680 --> 02:19:20,799
trying out and in finding out 
more about different kind of 

1899
02:19:20,799 --> 02:19:25,280
sports and also what effects 
different sports have on the 

1900
02:19:25,280 --> 02:19:28,799
working dog field in alls and 
nowadays because of the 

1901
02:19:28,799 --> 02:19:34,879
different aspekts in frenring 
belgumring kan pv igp i would be

1902
02:19:34,879 --> 02:19:39,280
very interested about that, but 
we will find a new date. 

1903
02:19:39,639 --> 02:19:44,000
Problem Ok and if if Andy Buddy.
If andy of your viewers or 

1904
02:19:44,000 --> 02:19:47,440
lizeners with like to here about
the kindalgie symposium that 

1905
02:19:47,440 --> 02:19:52,720
will take play and just on the 
wickers so how what one think 

1906
02:19:52,720 --> 02:19:56,720
all do is all just say it is 
going to be in Santa rosa, 

1907
02:19:56,720 --> 02:20:01,920
California at the Michael Ellis 
school for dog trainers. 

1908
02:20:02,240 --> 02:20:06,360
So if you go to the website for 
the Michael LS school, you just 

1909
02:20:06,360 --> 02:20:10,520
see what you need to to find the
details in the faxs about the 

1910
02:20:10,520 --> 02:20:14,560
event you can register to 
bridgespate in the event online,

1911
02:20:14,880 --> 02:20:18,440
and if you do so have to word, 
you'll get a video tape of the 

1912
02:20:18,440 --> 02:20:22,000
entire event as well, it's a 
five day five days symposy well 

1913
02:20:22,880 --> 02:20:26,800
we'll talk about the lot is kind
of and michael and michael and 

1914
02:20:26,800 --> 02:20:30,080
forest. 
Mickey will do demonstrations 

1915
02:20:30,080 --> 02:20:34,000
design to. 
Show the application of the 

1916
02:20:34,000 --> 02:20:37,280
signed evic and the behavior 
princibles that i discos in dog 

1917
02:20:37,280 --> 02:20:41,120
train and also many ethical and 
and that you judgment's 

1918
02:20:41,120 --> 02:20:45,640
surraning dog training as well 
and then also opervite you with 

1919
02:20:45,640 --> 02:20:49,800
a more execed link, and if you 
can get that out to people that 

1920
02:20:49,800 --> 02:20:52,640
they can they can us it to think
out was going of the samener 

1921
02:20:52,800 --> 02:20:56,400
we's just have an nother one 
this events, it's unclear we're 

1922
02:20:56,400 --> 02:20:59,840
will have an at this point, but 
we's just have another this in a

1923
02:20:59,840 --> 02:21:04,080
prolot nexture. 
Awesome, so please send mit a 

1924
02:21:04,080 --> 02:21:05,760
link i. 
Will put it to the shownotes i 

1925
02:21:05,760 --> 02:21:10,160
will also Highlight it. 
I can not recommended in nuth, i

1926
02:21:10,160 --> 02:21:15,120
had only one morning, but i'm i 
really regretted having to leaf 

1927
02:21:15,120 --> 02:21:20,200
so early this summer so Forever 
one who hast a chance to 

1928
02:21:20,960 --> 02:21:26,240
participate go ahead and 
register for this is they're 

1929
02:21:26,240 --> 02:21:28,240
anything elsted you would like 
to highlight. 

1930
02:21:28,680 --> 02:21:30,800
Stued not think in all it's been
thank you for. 

1931
02:21:30,800 --> 02:21:32,880
Invite in me on it's been a 
grate pleasure. 

1932
02:21:33,200 --> 02:21:36,880
I hope i hope to we get it is a 
chance is spensum time together 

1933
02:21:36,960 --> 02:21:39,520
i love to what you work to taked
off and it's i gear berry 

1934
02:21:39,520 --> 02:21:44,200
thatful and I'd really like to a
chance alarm some stop from you,

1935
02:21:44,200 --> 02:21:47,080
oh that's on the grate. 
Maybe. 

1936
02:21:47,080 --> 02:21:50,080
I's end you some of the clips 
here and there and and and i'm 

1937
02:21:50,080 --> 02:21:54,400
so for you're the kind of grate.
So for everyone. 

1938
02:21:54,480 --> 02:21:58,080
Listening, i hope you like to 
this much is i did. 

1939
02:21:59,120 --> 02:22:05,760
If so let us no send us a 
comment give us a rating and 

1940
02:22:05,760 --> 02:22:07,920
also. 
Share this with. 

1941
02:22:07,920 --> 02:22:12,680
Your friends and kolleg so that 
more people get more different 

1942
02:22:12,680 --> 02:22:16,840
forts and opinions about the 
ways of training, dogs and 

1943
02:22:16,840 --> 02:22:20,960
people. 
Ja, thank you so much. 

1944
02:22:21,520 --> 02:22:26,640
And all the best, no cursing all
mo's no cursing in this all mo's

1945
02:22:26,640 --> 02:22:31,080
no cursing if you comed. 
To a symposium if you comed to a

1946
02:22:31,080 --> 02:22:36,400
symposium, there's going to be 
all out a cosing for shoe. 

1947
02:22:36,400 --> 02:22:42,400
All right so enjoy your day all 
the best not see you. 

1948
02:22:42,400 --> 02:22:44,280
Soon hope for the buby thank 
you. 

1949
02:22:44,720 --> 02:23:22,680
I'll by do See you so Goodbye. 
Was?