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So, one day, the young bull and 
the old bull are standing on a 

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hill and there's all these cows 
down in the paddock below. 

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The young bull looks to the old 
ball and he says you know what 

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we should do? 
We should go down there and fuck

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those cows. 
We should run down to fuck one 

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each and the bull says, yep. 
Or we could just walk down there

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and fuck them all. 
Welcome again, everyone 

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listening in to another episode 
of you know, talk. 

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And today I have the great 
pleasure talking to one of the 

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individuals who inspired me and 
doing my own podcasts and this 

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is no other than pet Stewart 
from the other side of the globe

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from Australia. 
Great to meet you pet. 

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Thanks for taking the time and 
talking to me and Joining the 

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interview. 
My pleasure. 

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Thanks for having me so it's a 
fun opportunity. 

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I hope so. 
So pet you've had quite a career

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you were in the military you 
have been with soft unit but not

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as a dog handler. 
I think you. 

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Yeah yeah. 
That's right. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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And you've had quite some action
going on. 

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I think and then quite a bad 
injury so that forced you I 

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think to step out of The service
and somehow you got into the dog

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training. 
Yeah, that's right. 

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My I was in the Army for 12 and 
a half years here in Australia. 

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I was recruited directly into a 
Special Forces Unit. 

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I was on what it was, the pilot 
program. 

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It was the first, very first 
test of recruiting directly from

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the street straight into Special
Forces. 

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So did all the normal army 
training basic training, 

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infantry stuff, and then 
straight on to selection. 

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So I did that in. 
Three and of the like 48 people 

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that I started with three of us 
passed, and so they said that 

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was a big success and they 
continue doing it. 

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It's now it's a yearly thing 
that they do an intake of. 

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So yeah, I did that at the the 
unit that I went into ended up 

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was called second Commando 
regiment. 

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That's what it's called when I 
left. 

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It changed names while I was 
there. 

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And yeah, I deployed multiple 
times, you know, all around the 

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world did all of that exciting 
stuff and I finished up there in

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In 2015 and I was not in the dog
so that the dog cell was raised 

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there in 2012. 
I sort of had my first encounter

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on a deployment with a military 
working dog and I think it was 

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00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,100
2008 became really really 
interested in the whole idea of 

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employment of dogs. 
Then that led me to, you know, 

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Dog Sports and became like a 
really Keen enthusiasts of that.

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While I was still in the Army, 
my unit brought in dogs in 2012 

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and by that stage I was I was a 
sniper platoon Sergeant at that 

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time and so it really wasn't, I 
couldn't as much as I would like

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to have the idea of, you know, 
dropping back down in rank to 

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private Soldier, becoming a dog 
handler, just wasn't on the car.

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So I was on the peripheries of 
that dog unit. 

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Like I helped wherever I could, 
and I ended up acting sort of 

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as, as something of a platoon 
Sergeant to. 

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Those guys helped administer it,
but I was not a dog handler. 

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I didn't deploy with a dog or 
anything like that. 

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And so like I said, It was sort 
of my last few years in the Army

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was heavily involved with the 
dog section. 

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But really on the peripheries in
the meantime, I'd developed a 

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really strong enthusiasm for it,
you know like in my own time and

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really had gotten into dog sport
even more than I really was into

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the working side of things. 
But yeah. 

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So then I discharged in 2015, I 
end up. 

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I broke my back. 
I broke my back in 2011. 

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It was enough that it was a 
career-ending move but I was, I 

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was allowed to stick around for 
four years because I like 

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working in the capacity that I 
was, I was non-deployable but I 

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was actually working mostly with
in domestic counterterrorism and

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and then, as I say, on the 
peripheries of that dog unit, so

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I was allowed to stay in and do 
that but yeah, left in 2015 to 

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become a dog trainer full-time. 
Great. 

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And and when was it, that you 
got to know the sand neighbor, 

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poor training system, Barb 
alone. 

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And yes, I think this shaped you
there is from heartily. 

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Yeah, it did. 
So I, you know, I'm a bit of a 

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sort of obsessive researcher. 
And to be honest, when I first 

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started in dogs, like my first 
exposure to dogs to a particular

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dog, while I was deployed, led 
me down this Rabbit Hole of 

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investigation and sort of 
wanting to learn And I bounced 

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around systems quite a bit. 
And for me it was that I knew 

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there was something missing from
my training and evidently that 

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was I didn't really understand 
or know how to use negative 

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reinforcement. 
I started out sort of primarily 

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just a positive reinforcement, 
only guy till I hit the 

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limitations of that and then 
became you know what BART would 

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refer to as like a pope own a 
trainer. 

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So like I was happy to use 
punishment but it was like I 

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00:05:25,508 --> 00:05:27,200
taught everything with Of 
reinforcement. 

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And I could make things stop 
with punishment, but it wasn't, 

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until I saw a video of bar. 
It was actually that video about

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the thaw and I'd heard of, you 
know, I'd heard of him and but 

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00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,500
didn't really know too much and 
there wasn't much information at

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the time. 
This was the thing, 2013 took 

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00:05:45,700 --> 00:05:47,400
like 12 or 13, something like 
that. 

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And so I started obsessively 
researching him and met him in 

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2016 and The student of his day 
and and really been a lot of 

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00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,600
time training with him at 
studying under biotin really 

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00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,200
invested a lot of time and 
energy into understanding that 

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00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,300
knee popo system creates. 
Will you travel to Europe to his

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00:06:10,300 --> 00:06:13,400
client? 
Didn't have no, no, so no, so he

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came to Australia the way it 
worked was we brought him out to

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Australia, to do a seminar just 
before there were no schools. 

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Then at the time, the only way 
to do the school was to go to 

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his home, which only a few 
people end up doing. 

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I think that it was probably 
turned out that having people 

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live and work with you for three
weeks at a time was not 

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00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:35,200
something he wanted to keep. 
So it was when he was in 

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Australia, doing this seminar, 
it was like his last year of 

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seminars. 
He discussed how he wanted to do

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00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:43,100
these schools, the silver and 
gold sort of discussed it with 

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00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:46,400
me about how that was the plan. 
And what ended up happening was 

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we ran many of those in 
Australia and sort of I 

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facilitated those for him when 
he was here which I was super 

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lucky to do. 
So like I was, you know, I did 

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the first schools as a student 
and then And back for all the 

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subsequent ones to to assist 
along the way, just 

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administratively, setting it up 
organizing the places the people

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and then eventually sort of 
assisting in you know in the 

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doing of it and we're very lucky
in that the Australian military 

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because I like still had those 
contacts into those places 

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should sort of invested heavily 
and then they post system. 

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And so I was very lucky that we 
did quite a lot of training with

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the military and police and 
stuff that were not available to

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Civilians. 
But, you know, I was 

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accompanying Bart on that and 
trained with him. 

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So trying to be about in a lot 
of different spaces in sort of 

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pet dog. 
People sport dog people as well 

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00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:39,300
as military working dog people. 
So I was extremely fortunate to 

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have such, you know, such access
to him, sounds great. 

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But now, let's get to yourself 
in more details. 

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So your company is called 
operant canine, right? 

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Yeah. 
And the thing I really like 

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about about, what you Is I think
you still do normal dog, 

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00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:05,600
training Peto training, but also
the working dog, branches from 

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00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,400
military, working dogs to police
and border patrol all of those 

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00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,000
things. 
Still, you have your own dogs. 

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00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,900
So you had, you had a still have
the spaniel I think which was a 

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00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:21,600
project, which was a project. 
But you did a one year plus and 

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00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,600
documentary of how to raise a 
puppy. 

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00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,400
A young dog, which I yeah, it 
was it Wonderful idea. 

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And also, you have the pointy 
ears that you still participate 

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00:08:32,900 --> 00:08:36,100
in contests with. 
So I saw actually your you were 

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00:08:36,100 --> 00:08:41,100
the first information for me and
to learn about PSA. 

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00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:44,900
So we don't have PSA in Austria.
It's and unfortunately, it's not

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00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,100
allowed here and yeah. 
Right. 

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00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:50,200
Okay. 
And but now I saw that you also 

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00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:55,200
did a Mondeo test. 
Yeah, I did your dog. 

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00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,800
So, I have my own. 
Yeah I am. 

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I have two dogs of my own. 
I have a little Springer, 

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00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,200
Spaniel named Valerie and then 
the Federation she's she's 

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00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,800
coming up on nine. 
I got her with the intention. 

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00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,900
I had a business partner time. 
Sam that I just noticed that it 

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00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:15,200
was when I was really starting 
to get into pet, dog, training 

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00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,000
that they're just was a gap in 
good information. 

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00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:21,400
And what I found when I was 
trying to research dog, training

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00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,500
was there's a lot of videos and 
instructional stuff out there, 

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00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:29,800
but you can always Tell very 
rarely, is anyone teaching you 

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00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:31,900
how to train a dog? 
They're showing you how their 

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00:09:31,900 --> 00:09:35,500
dog is trained and they're 
saying how it went down, but 

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00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:37,500
very few people show the 
process. 

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00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:39,900
Or certainly at that time, like 
9 years ago, they just was a 

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00:09:39,908 --> 00:09:42,800
Content like that. 
So the idea was that we got her 

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00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,800
and she just was randomly 
purchased off the internet, it 

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00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,300
wasn't like we didn't use our 
own network within the dog space

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00:09:49,300 --> 00:09:52,700
to get a puppy that we knew 
would turn out a particular way 

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00:09:52,700 --> 00:09:56,100
or from a bloodline that we knew
I just like Springer Spaniels. 

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00:09:56,100 --> 00:10:01,600
So We got one of those and, you 
know, showed how to choose a 

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00:10:01,608 --> 00:10:05,000
breeder and filmed every 
training session of the first 12

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00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,200
months of her life and we turn 
that into like an online course 

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00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,600
that we sold for many years. 
But I ended up making it free 

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00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:15,000
just a few years ago because my 
own training had progressed and 

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00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,400
changed so much. 
And it was when I like, I still 

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00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,200
think that it's a very good 
resource for pet dog, owners for

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00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,400
sure, but I think as I developed
a little bit of a name for 

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00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,900
myself, And got a little bit 
known in the industry. 

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00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:32,400
What I realized was people was 
buying that cause thinking that 

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00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,800
they were going to get 
information that was new and the

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00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,100
type of way that I trained 
currently, which is just wasn't.

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00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:41,200
It's very basic pet dogs off. 
So, I decided to make that free 

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00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,400
and just put it on YouTube and 
anyone can watch that. 

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00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,300
Now, it's on my website. 
People can see it, but I still 

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00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:47,800
have her. 
The plan was just to keep her 

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00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,200
for 12 months and then I just 
fell in. 

185
00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,700
Love God. 
Then we were gonna give her away

186
00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:55,100
as like a pdsd. 
That was the idea we're going to

187
00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:59,000
train her to be like a Aaron's, 
PTSD assistance, though, but I 

188
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,800
realized pretty quickly should 
give your pdsd before she helped

189
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:07,300
you with it. 
It's so I decided to keep up and

190
00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:09,900
yeah, then I also have a 
Malinois of my own, you know, 

191
00:11:09,900 --> 00:11:12,200
I've raised and trained and 
dealt with a lot of there's over

192
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,100
the years but I kept one is 
named schramko. 

193
00:11:16,300 --> 00:11:20,600
He was one of the first dogs 
that I like, I got out of the 

194
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,400
army and had the option to keep.
So like, I've raised dogs and, 

195
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,200
you know, in syndicates with 
people to sell and that kind of 

196
00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:28,000
Stuff. 
But he was given to me and I 

197
00:11:28,008 --> 00:11:31,200
could do whatever I wanted with 
him and I wasn't sure that I was

198
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,200
going to keep him. 
But he had a couple of injuries 

199
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,600
pretty early that meant that he 
would be difficult to sell. 

200
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,600
And so I decided to keep him 
myself that and I quite like the

201
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,700
dog. 
So yeah, we've competed with me 

202
00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:45,600
and him have competed in four 
different sports. 

203
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:51,200
We have a pH. 
We we competed in PSA. 

204
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,600
That's that was like his 
purpose. 

205
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,000
That's why I got him and wanted 
to compete in PSA and we got 

206
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,300
into Level 2, we go to first leg
of a level 2 before covid, and 

207
00:11:59,300 --> 00:12:02,800
so that put like a big hole to 
our ability to continue 

208
00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,500
trialing. 
So we haven't traveled in PSA 

209
00:12:05,500 --> 00:12:10,400
since 2019. 
And so just recently as I say 

210
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,300
the Sydney Mondo Club held a 
trial that they invited. 

211
00:12:14,300 --> 00:12:17,900
They told me I was welcome to 
come at and so I did I failed 

212
00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:22,500
miserably the first time around 
because my dog wasn't prepared. 

213
00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:25,100
So that I went back to the 
drawing board and actually did 

214
00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:29,000
some like more Pacific Mondeo 
trading and we got through. 

215
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,900
So we got the first leg of a 
Mondeo one, but we also would 

216
00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:34,400
that dog, I do gr C, which is 
like a, the gameness 

217
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:36,200
relationship controllers, j-jax 
sport. 

218
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,900
So we have the entry-level, the 
SR test. 

219
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:42,600
We also have a couple of titles 
in the spring pole and the 

220
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:46,300
what's it called? 
The Mill racing and stuff like 

221
00:12:46,300 --> 00:12:48,300
that. 
So he's a pretty utility like 

222
00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:52,800
he's really, he's a great dog, 
but he's been a project dog for 

223
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,100
me, you know, like I think all 
of my dog's I think that's the 

224
00:12:55,108 --> 00:12:59,300
kind of the case with most dog. 
As write their own dogs, are a 

225
00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:05,500
their training lab that Stokes 
of endured a lot of, a lot of 

226
00:13:05,500 --> 00:13:09,600
training that has been me, 
learning to train, our dogs are 

227
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,200
trying out new things. 
And many of the things that I 

228
00:13:12,208 --> 00:13:15,300
tell people you should never do 
is because I've done it and I 

229
00:13:15,308 --> 00:13:17,800
did it at those dogs. 
So they're not perfect not by 

230
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,900
any stretch of the imagination 
but they're mine and I love 

231
00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:22,800
them. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

232
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,700
It's very true. 
The dogs I have for myself Elf 

233
00:13:27,700 --> 00:13:31,300
they have to learn way too many 
things and and there are 

234
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,700
multiple purpose, but there are 
no specialist. 

235
00:13:33,700 --> 00:13:38,100
So and that's that's the other 
side of the coin. 

236
00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:41,800
But it's a fun thing to try to 
try as many things as possible. 

237
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,100
I think, as you say, just to 
gain some more experience and to

238
00:13:45,108 --> 00:13:49,200
be able to tell others, maybe 
was not so smart too and to put 

239
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,600
on your dog as well. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

240
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,900
Where is aramco coming from? 
Is it an Australian line? 

241
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,100
So he's a both. 
His parents were imported from 

242
00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:05,000
Holland so he's a line breeding 
on Yahoo book house. 

243
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:10,900
So he said both his mother and 
his father were both imported 

244
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:14,100
from Holland together to with 
the intent of doing a mating 

245
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,400
here in Australia. 
And really nice dog, really? 

246
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,900
Well put together, but he gets 
injured a lot, which is kind of 

247
00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:25,000
a real pain, but a very stable 
Dog, nice, nice and complete 

248
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,400
like he's like I that's why I 
wanted him so much and I wanted 

249
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,800
that bloodline. 
Very pale skin. 

250
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,500
It's a came through the air 
completely Blurred Lines here. 

251
00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:37,700
So, not super agile. 
He's a bit of a tank, you know. 

252
00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:42,300
Not not a lot of Endurance on 
him, either he be asses out 

253
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:43,700
pretty quickly, but very 
powerful. 

254
00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:45,300
Very stable. 
Great nerves. 

255
00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:48,100
I've never really hit any 
problems of nerve issue with 

256
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:49,500
him. 
He takes any amount of pressure 

257
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:55,400
and the work and also like, 
quite a I won't say social 

258
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,500
because he doesn't ever seek out
attention from people but a very

259
00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:01,100
stable like not a not much 
aggression in the dorm, right? 

260
00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:04,000
So like plenty of prey enough to
work through whatever I need him

261
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,200
to enough aggression to stay in 
a fight but also very stable 

262
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,100
dog. 
You know, I have a family, I 

263
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:13,100
have two kids, he lives in the 
house and he's a nice stable, 

264
00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:18,500
sort of like he's a very, you 
know, people outside the working

265
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:19,700
space. 
Would look at him and say that 

266
00:15:19,700 --> 00:15:22,400
he's an extreme dog. 
But I think as far as like, you 

267
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,600
know, Molly's going, Yeah. 
He's a nice medium, very well 

268
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,800
put together. 
Sort of complete and drives dog.

269
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,000
Not not off tap, not not wild, 
none of those things but just 

270
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,100
sort of a nice stable dog. 
Nice. 

271
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:38,700
And how old is he? 
He's just about to turn six. 

272
00:15:38,700 --> 00:15:42,300
Yeah, which is, it's kind of a 
bummer like he has had a lot of 

273
00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:45,600
injuries so he's aging out 
pretty quickly, which is 

274
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:47,900
upsetting, but that's just 
reality. 

275
00:15:47,900 --> 00:15:52,600
Unfortunately, it's six would be
an ice age where you find some 

276
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:58,300
experience in the dog and for 
performing but also for myself, 

277
00:15:58,300 --> 00:16:02,200
the Corona and all the 
lockdowns, really broke her neck

278
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:07,900
for sports, I have That became 
PV Malinois and a German 

279
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,500
Shorthaired Pointer, which I did
and search-and-rescue 

280
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,900
competitions, with and nice, it 
would have been great. 

281
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:19,800
But yeah, I don't have to tell 
you every, yeah, it's a bummer, 

282
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,400
all these opportunities lost. 
And that was one of the most 

283
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,200
heartbreaking things I found, 
you know, it's my own ego 

284
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,800
speaking. 
I had things that I wanted to 

285
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,900
achieve with that, dog. 
I like it when I wanted to get 

286
00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:35,500
so far. 
I wanted to do certain things 

287
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:40,200
and as I was just, you know, 
watching him, turn your turn, 

288
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,400
food into dog, poo. 
I was thinking this dog could 

289
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,500
have been so much more, I buy 
it, or he doesn't care. 

290
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:49,700
You know, he's happy. 
It's my own ego. 

291
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:51,700
That's just upset about it. 
More than anything. 

292
00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:55,600
Sure. 
I totally understand so pet 

293
00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:02,500
Being with officials or being 
with the military forces and now

294
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:07,900
also with pulling K-9 handlers 
Etc, is there a nickname that 

295
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:10,200
sticks to you that you can't get
rid of? 

296
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:16,400
There is an actually I've never 
I've never been allocated one 

297
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,900
I've had a few. 
What happened? 

298
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:22,800
Initially was when I first got 
to my unit my nickname was the 

299
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,500
fact Commando and that was given
to me by because you No, I never

300
00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:30,000
had that year. 
When people picture that special

301
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,900
forces guy, they feature, you 
know, the jacked cut up, you 

302
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:36,300
know, superhuman looking guy and
I've just never been that, okay.

303
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:38,600
I'm more about toughness rather 
than Fitness. 

304
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,700
That's always been. 
I think I don't have to be super

305
00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:43,200
fit. 
I can just put up with a lot of 

306
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,400
pain which is probably why I 
broke my back. 

307
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,800
You know, like I probably wasn't
the best person to be there but 

308
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:52,800
so that's probably the only 
nickname I've ever had really 

309
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,600
that that I wasn't super fond of
and I was given that Nine by the

310
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,200
guy whose nickname it was before
me. 

311
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,200
So he was in the unit and he was
the fact Commando and then 

312
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:06,000
fortunately, I was able to pass 
it on to someone else as well. 

313
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,600
So of course, I wasn't a fattest
Commando. 

314
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,500
I was one of them, but I wasn't 
the fattest. 

315
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:19,100
All right, all right. 
And is there any particular tick

316
00:18:19,100 --> 00:18:23,600
or habit that you have that 
people know you for Maybe now 

317
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,200
for teaching or training? 
Yeah, I know everything that we 

318
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,700
sometimes we seem to be very 
nerdy to normal talk people. 

319
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,900
So, yeah. 
But is it for sure. 

320
00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:38,600
Like I think the take that I 
have is everybody's always 

321
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,600
talking about how touch my hair,
I'm constantly keeping my hair 

322
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,500
back and I have to admit it. 
He's like a it's not a nervous 

323
00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:49,900
twitch but it is like a 
subconscious kind of thing that 

324
00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:52,400
I do. 
When I'm it's like saying to me,

325
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,500
you know, When I'm searching for
an answer, I always find myself 

326
00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:57,600
sort of playing with my own hair
as I do it. 

327
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,700
There's a lot of jokes that get 
around about doing that, but I 

328
00:19:00,708 --> 00:19:05,000
think in the dog industry what 
I'm known for is I'm I'm a 

329
00:19:05,008 --> 00:19:07,600
pretty good teacher. 
I think that I'm a better talker

330
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:08,700
than I am. 
Dog trainer. 

331
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:09,800
I'm pretty good at training 
dogs. 

332
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,000
I'm not amazing not by any 
stretch of the imagination, but 

333
00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:17,100
what I am good at is sort of 
understanding really complex 

334
00:19:17,100 --> 00:19:19,500
things. 
I'm pretty good at learning 

335
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:22,600
myself and I can usually read 
between the lines quite a bit. 

336
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,700
So even when people are not 
necessarily trying to teach me, 

337
00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,900
I have a pretty good way of 
being able to break apart what 

338
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:32,700
they're doing and understanding 
what they're doing and why and 

339
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:37,100
then you know formulating that 
into a cohesive set of 

340
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:39,400
instructions that I'm pretty 
good at passing on. 

341
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,500
So I get sort of the truth is, I
get more credibility in the dog 

342
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:49,600
space than I probably deserve as
a dog trainer, if it weren't for

343
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,400
my skill set in passing on the 
knowledge that I have the 

344
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:53,900
knowledge. 
I have would probably be 

345
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:56,300
somewhat unimpressive. 
It would be, you know, I fits it

346
00:19:56,300 --> 00:20:00,000
in a sea of many, really good 
trainers, but what I'm good at 

347
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,600
is passing that on. 
So that's my skillset. 

348
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,900
I'm very lucky to have it and 
I'm very appreciative of it and 

349
00:20:06,908 --> 00:20:08,600
I take advantage of it as much 
as I can. 

350
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,100
I try to pass on as much 
information as I possibly can. 

351
00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:14,400
I've been incredibly Lucky in my
entire life, not just in my 

352
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,000
lettuce in dog training, but in 
my military career as well, I've

353
00:20:17,008 --> 00:20:19,900
been, I've had some amazing 
mentors and I've had a lot of 

354
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:22,200
people put a lot of time into 
me. 

355
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:26,200
And so I think you know behoves 
me to do the same to try and 

356
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,000
pass on as much information as I
can. 

357
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,500
And I have platforms like this. 
I have a podcast that many 

358
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:34,300
people listen to, I'm invited 
onto things like this is with 

359
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:35,900
you, which is always an honor 
for me to do. 

360
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:38,800
So it's always a always take it 
quite seriously, that that's how

361
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,300
portunity to pass on the 
information that's been given to

362
00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:45,800
me. 
So is this the your motivation 

363
00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:49,100
to give others? 
What you have received think? 

364
00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:54,100
So, I think so, like, I don't 
want to You know, it sounds like

365
00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:59,400
too too much, like you do it for
others, like it's intrinsically 

366
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,100
motivating for me. 
I really enjoy doing it. 

367
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:06,700
I enjoy teaching. 
And I enjoy the process of, you 

368
00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:10,200
know, understanding complex 
things, and making them into 

369
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,600
simple things. 
I do enjoy doing that, but there

370
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,900
is a certain satisfaction that 
comes from, you know, being able

371
00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:20,500
to lift the bar a little bit of 
other people. 

372
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:22,600
And that's, that's one of the 
thing that's really cool about 

373
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,000
doing. 
Podcast, we, you know, we, I 

374
00:21:25,008 --> 00:21:29,100
think we get about 40,000 people
listening to the show and so 

375
00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:34,000
every every week at the least, I
get an email or a text or 

376
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,900
something from somebody talking 
about how you know, which they 

377
00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:39,800
either came to understand 
something that they didn't in 

378
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,900
the past or that some of them 
are huge, some of them are just,

379
00:21:43,900 --> 00:21:47,000
you know, like I found this what
you said, quite interesting. 

380
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,300
Thank you for saying it. 
And then there's other ones 

381
00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:51,600
where I've had people come up to
me at events and say, that 

382
00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:55,000
radical Change their life or 
even kept them alive in some 

383
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,800
instances, which is, you know, 
that's pretty fulfilling thing 

384
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,200
when people say that you, you 
know. 

385
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,100
So like that is definitely a 
motivation of mine for sure. 

386
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:05,900
Well, yeah. 
And, and you do many things, 

387
00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:11,200
it's the canine Paradigm. 
You've also recently been at the

388
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,500
police correcting, what was it 
called? 

389
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:17,000
The big convention in the ICP 
conference conference? 

390
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,900
Yeah, yeah. 
Being there with many other 

391
00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:27,200
great trainers and instructors. 
So that is very impressive and 

392
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,500
it was a great time so medicate 
like I'm building a huge 

393
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:32,100
supporter of the ICP I think 
that. 

394
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:34,600
Yeah, the ICP is the 
International Association and 

395
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,200
canine professionals and like I 
try to plug them wherever I can.

396
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:44,300
I think that in this modern 
world, they are the one dog 

397
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:47,200
training organization. 
That's not trying to take things

398
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,100
away from people. 
They're just trying to protect 

399
00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:53,800
the rights of dog trainers and 
continue us being able to do You

400
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,600
know, what we know is right for 
dogs and use the skill set that 

401
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,700
we have. 
So I'm a big supporter of that 

402
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:01,600
ICP, it was an honor for me to 
be invited to speak at the 

403
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,700
conference that was meant to 
happen in 2019 2020. 

404
00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:07,200
Sorry and got delayed a couple 
of years. 

405
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,900
So it was that was the first 
conference. 

406
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:11,500
It was just a couple weeks ago 
that has actually happened the 

407
00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:13,300
first one in the last three 
years. 

408
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,000
So it was a huge it was a big 
deal. 

409
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,600
It's great to get back with 
those people. 

410
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,200
And and again for me it was a it
was an opportunity to rub 

411
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,800
shoulders with a Out of people 
that I haven't seen in a long 

412
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,000
time, as well as meet people 
that I've been a fan of for a 

413
00:23:29,008 --> 00:23:30,400
long time. 
I mean to buy a school system 

414
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,100
was there. 
No, you know, him and that was 

415
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,400
for me. 
That was I've been a huge fan of

416
00:23:36,408 --> 00:23:39,400
his from afar for a little 
while, you know, like I watch 

417
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,600
all of this stuff. 
I mean, a mad by his training. 

418
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,300
I think that he's amazing. 
So those kind of events where 

419
00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:46,900
you get to actually meet people 
in real life and talk to them 

420
00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:50,700
and and confirm that they are 
who you think they are. 

421
00:23:50,700 --> 00:23:52,000
I think that's one of the best 
things. 

422
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:52,900
Like, what do you mean, you 
know? 

423
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:57,100
Say don't meet your Heroes but 
for me, I've got to meet people 

424
00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,700
who I've been looking up to for 
a long time and they are what I 

425
00:23:59,708 --> 00:24:01,600
thought they were. 
So that's why I love those sorts

426
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,100
of events. 
Yeah. 

427
00:24:03,100 --> 00:24:06,700
For sure. 
And hopefully we will have more 

428
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:12,200
of those again and not being 
hindered by any pandemic. 

429
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,400
Hopefully. 
Hopefully we will now afford the

430
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,800
diesel and yeah, yeah, that's 
one from one problem on to the 

431
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,300
next that's for sure. 
Doesn't it, does it affect you 

432
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:29,100
in Australia? 
Russian, you can it not 

433
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:33,600
directly, but for sure, it has 
that it's starting to affect us 

434
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,400
more. 
There's definitely cost of 

435
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,400
living is increasing in many 
ways. 

436
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:40,500
The fuel prices here have 
increased, but I don't think 

437
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:43,200
directly because of them at 
those probably other things in 

438
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,600
the process that was causing 
that. 

439
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,800
But certainly, it's affected 
international travel, like just 

440
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,000
to get to that ICP conference 
that. 

441
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,900
So I used to travel to and from 
the state's Regularly sort of, 

442
00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:57,200
you know, 8 times a year or 
something like that, but to get 

443
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,500
to that that conference, my 
flights were triple what they 

444
00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:05,500
were pre covid. 
So it's the world has definitely

445
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:07,100
gotten more expensive, that's 
for sure. 

446
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:13,000
Well. 
Okay, so now we make a little 

447
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:18,000
jump to different topic and 
well, it still relates to the to

448
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,700
the motivation and maybe even 
having a hashtag of that 

449
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:28,200
command. 
And oh, hopefully Sports means 

450
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:30,700
alcohol. 
Do you follow any specific diets

451
00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:36,800
or how do you keep yourself 
active it awake but this is a 

452
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,000
rabbit hole. 
You know, I drink coffee, I 

453
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,400
didn't drink coffee until I was 
like 35 years old. 

454
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,600
I'm glad that I didn't I didn't 
drink coffee while I was in the 

455
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,500
Army at all. 
And I'm glad that I didn't 

456
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:54,300
because I am now hardcore addict
that Doesn't function without 

457
00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:57,400
it. 
So I'm glad that that, that 

458
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,500
wasn't at a time in my life, 
where things were more 

459
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:01,500
difficult, or when I didn't have
access to everything that I 

460
00:26:01,508 --> 00:26:02,700
could ever want. 
Like I do now. 

461
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:04,200
So, yes, I drink a lot of 
coffee. 

462
00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:06,000
Just normal straight, black 
coffee. 

463
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,900
That's all I have. 
I've had a lot of ridiculous, 

464
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:16,000
diet, so my time I'm sort of a 
ridiculous diet enthusiasts. 

465
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,400
Oh, okay. 
They're almost isn't one that I 

466
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,600
haven't tried. 
I've done it all and I kind of 

467
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,900
enjoy doing now. 
I'm a little bit of A data nerd.

468
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,900
Have you tried what you tried to
deliver? 

469
00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:29,900
King died? 
I haven't, I haven't tried. 

470
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:32,300
He's a specific diet but I have 
done the carnivore diet. 

471
00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:33,400
I did. 
Okay, that's great. 

472
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,400
Nothing. 
But muscle meat for a full month

473
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,500
and to be honest, that was 
amazing. 

474
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:43,200
I yeah, I found that really 
sustainable that the issue 

475
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,800
though, when I did that for a 
full month, really strictly? 

476
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,800
I was injured. 
So I didn't train a lot. 

477
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,600
So I don't know how I've gone 
sort of under that performance 

478
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:52,300
load. 
I'm not sure. 

479
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,800
But yeah, made I've done it all 
and at the moment I'm on the I'm

480
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,300
on a seafood and eat it diet. 
I mean, I'm in something of a 

481
00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:04,800
blowout face but I need to 
tighten that back up. 

482
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,700
I was just thinking just the 
other day that I need to, I need

483
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:11,200
some sort of ridiculous new 
challenge or, you know 

484
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,700
outrageous diet because I'm I'm 
an extremist. 

485
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:21,400
I don't do moderation very well.
And so when you're like the idea

486
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,800
of like, if I want to lose 
weight, Get a bit healthier, the

487
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,200
idea of just eating a bit less 
than training a bit more. 

488
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,300
Like I can't do that. 
I need to really hard guidelines

489
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:31,400
and he's like, no this is the 
strict diet that you're going to

490
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,200
eat and this is the training 
that you're going to do. 

491
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,800
So yeah that's diets. 
I've done it all. 

492
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,700
And right now I'm not on 
anything specific. 

493
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,900
I don't really play any sports 
and not much of a sports ball. 

494
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:43,600
Go. 
I did heat like a played, every 

495
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,700
could growing up, and I think I 
had my fill of it. 

496
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:50,600
I trained, I'm pretty big into 
at the moment. 

497
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,200
Well, and for the last couple of
years I really just With 

498
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,200
kettlebells mostly, I got really
kind of obsessed with Pavel 

499
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,000
tetzel and who is the sort of 
original Russian guy that 

500
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,600
brought kettlebells out of 
Russia and sort of to get to the

501
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,600
Western World. 
So I got really obsessed with 

502
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,300
him and tried to complete his 
program, simple and Sinister, 

503
00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:15,400
and I got two simple and then 
had a giant injury trying to get

504
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,500
to Sinister. 
So that was the end of that. 

505
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:21,200
So yeah, right, I'm sort of like
bounce all over the place. 

506
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,300
I like I say I'm a bit of an 
extremist in that way. 

507
00:28:25,300 --> 00:28:30,400
So I commit to things 
ridiculously, until I just can't

508
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,800
either. 
Can't stomach it anymore or it. 

509
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,900
I get injured doing it. 
It's usually one or the other 

510
00:28:37,700 --> 00:28:42,200
and do you drink alcohol. 
I do not like a big drinker. 

511
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,900
I used to, you know, like I 
think the Army has like a, you 

512
00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:49,300
know, binge drinking culture and
I was definitely was a part of 

513
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:56,700
that but I just don't recover. 
Like I'm 39 now and I just don't

514
00:28:56,700 --> 00:29:01,000
like, I'm 39, I've got two kids.
I work, I work really hard. 

515
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,900
I just don't have time to be 
hungover and so is that has 

516
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:09,000
significantly reduced and and my
hangovers come on so hard and so

517
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,300
fast, so easily that I really 
don't have the capacity to do 

518
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:16,500
that, but I enjoy whiskey with 
dinner, you know, now and again,

519
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:19,900
so I don't not drink, but I'm 
not a big drinker, that's for 

520
00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:24,100
sure. 
And send they have a brewery 

521
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,700
culturing Australian. 
Yeah, for sure. 

522
00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:28,500
Yeah. 
Especially where I live, like, 

523
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:33,000
in this area here. 
There's a it's it's quite a sort

524
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:39,600
of emerging like what we call, 
like, hipster bars, you know, so

525
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,400
there's like lots of 
microbreweries sort of all over 

526
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,500
the place just really popular. 
They really cool places to go 

527
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,300
because they're not, they're 
technically not pubs or bars. 

528
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:52,000
Yeah. 
Brewery where you can buy 

529
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,700
Drinks. 
The drinks are cheaper, as well 

530
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:57,200
as you're allowed to take pets 
into them and stuff like that. 

531
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,800
They're not, they're not they 
don't have the same laws. 

532
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,200
So they're great to go to. 
They're a lot of fun. 

533
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,200
But like I said, I've got two 
young kids so that like the 

534
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,200
weekends that would otherwise be
spent hanging out with friends. 

535
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,800
Drinking beer is now spent going
to five-year-old birthday 

536
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:20,800
parties, you know, so I've 
changes, you know, yeah 

537
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,000
obviously. 
But still on during the week, on

538
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,400
a normal working day. 
Are you an early bird? 

539
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,300
When do we get up? 
And what does your first hour of

540
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:30,200
the day? 
Look like? 

541
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:34,500
Yeah, good question. 
So I usually get out I am early 

542
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:36,600
I get up earlier kind of always 
just been like that. 

543
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,700
I usually am up at about 4:30 or
5:00 and I do that. 

544
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,700
Like it's just kind of when I 
wake up. 

545
00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:47,200
So I've learned to take 
advantage of that, you know, 

546
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,500
like lean into that. 
And so I usually try and get a 

547
00:30:51,508 --> 00:30:53,300
couple of hours. 
Worked on whatever that is. 

548
00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:58,600
So you know at the moment I do a
lot of video editing and, you 

549
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,500
know, production stuff. 
So I usually try and do an hour 

550
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:04,400
of the soul of that before 
everybody else is up in the 

551
00:31:04,408 --> 00:31:07,000
house. 
And then I also like train my 

552
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,900
own dogs, really early in the 
morning. 

553
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:12,200
So, okay, I'm usually like to be
out with my own dogs by about 

554
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,600
5:30 6:00. 
And that way I get sort of an 

555
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,500
uninterrupted, our with them 
where we can train and then go 

556
00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,600
like, spend time together. 
Go for a walk and that That sort

557
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,800
of keeps them happy for the day 
and it sets me up for Success. 

558
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,300
One thing I sort of have always 
found is whenever I fall out of 

559
00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:34,600
that routine of being outdoors 
early in the morning I just 

560
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,500
don't feel as good. 
Like I wouldn't say I feel bad 

561
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:39,900
but I just don't feel as you 
know. 

562
00:31:39,900 --> 00:31:43,400
Like I don't have the power that
I would have normally and that 

563
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,900
became really evident you know a
couple years ago when I started 

564
00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:50,600
raising dogs again and was 
tracking with them early in the 

565
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,800
morning. 
So you know your At before the 

566
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,300
sun laying tracks and then 
watching the sun come up. 

567
00:31:56,300 --> 00:31:58,600
And I just find that I feel much
better. 

568
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,700
I perform better that way. 
Okay. 

569
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:05,200
And so I am an early riser, but 
then, you know, I try to be in 

570
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,900
bed by about 10 usually, but 
that doesn't always work out. 

571
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:14,400
My current health Obsession, 
it's been around for a couple of

572
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:15,800
years. 
Now is like, I'm obsessed with 

573
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,700
sorna as well. 
So that's kind of, that's kind 

574
00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:21,700
of my daily routine is like I am
up with the dogs. 

575
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:23,900
Very Early in the morning, I try
and get some work done. 

576
00:32:23,900 --> 00:32:26,400
But at the minimum want to get 
the dogs out of the work day. 

577
00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:28,600
I usually try and train in the 
middle of the day. 

578
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,700
I can't, I can't really train 
very well in the mornings. 

579
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:35,200
Myself, like just my body 
doesn't quite work yet, you 

580
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,300
know. 
Like I haven't warmed up because

581
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:40,100
of much higher risk of injury, 
then yeah, I'm usually try and 

582
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:43,400
hit the sauna before bed. 
That's that's kind of my, my day

583
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,000
in a nutshell. 
So you have your own, your own 

584
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,200
sauna at home or? 
Yeah, I do. 

585
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,000
Yeah, it's a nice red one. 
So only gets the like 65 degrees

586
00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:58,000
He is, but it's been a huge help
to be honest and what happened 

587
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,300
was like II. 
There's a place down the street 

588
00:33:00,308 --> 00:33:03,700
from me where I went and you 
know, bought a few sort of 

589
00:33:03,708 --> 00:33:06,400
individual sessions, but it's 
like $50 for a session, right? 

590
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,400
So yeah, it's crazy expensive. 
And I was like, I'm walking to 

591
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,700
this place to be. 
I was like, I'm going to get 

592
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:13,600
one, so I investigated them 
online. 

593
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,700
You know, and turns out, you 
could get one for like, fifteen 

594
00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:19,000
hundred dollars. 
I was like, I emotionally bought

595
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,300
one. 
When I thought I could buy it 

596
00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:23,200
for fifteen hundred dollars and 
When I did some more research a 

597
00:33:23,208 --> 00:33:26,600
revised that the fifteen hundred
dollar one has a light spectrum 

598
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,600
that like probably gives you 
cancer. 

599
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,300
The the sides of it are glued 
together with like a glue that 

600
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:35,800
contains formaldehyde, which 
then going to heat up and 

601
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,900
breathe in. 
So it's like, okay, turns out. 

602
00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:40,400
They're not $1500. 
They're actually more like six 

603
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,100
thousand dollars. 
Okay? 

604
00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:44,300
But but I'd emotionally bought 
it. 

605
00:33:44,300 --> 00:33:46,000
So it was. 
I bought it. 

606
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,900
I bought the sixth out of but I 
use it almost every day and I 

607
00:33:48,908 --> 00:33:50,900
really love. 
It's been, it's been a huge 

608
00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:54,600
thing for me and yeah, They're 
sort of yeah, besides, just my 

609
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,000
body. 
It's really good for my mind as 

610
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,600
well. 
Like I usually try and I mean 

611
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,000
there for at least 20 minutes, 
and that's sort of 20 minutes 

612
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,900
away from anything. 
Like, I try to just kind of 

613
00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:05,600
switch off and meditate while 
I'm in there and I try and do 

614
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,000
the like I do that with off 
breathing, try to do that in 

615
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,500
there. 
And that sort of all that could 

616
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:15,699
try and it kind of keeps me just
a better version of myself, to 

617
00:34:15,699 --> 00:34:18,100
be honest. 
You know, like it's, I 

618
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:20,600
definitely notice when I don't 
do it. 

619
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:21,900
It does. 
I wouldn't say that. 

620
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:25,199
That routine fulfills me and 
makes me feel amazing and 

621
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:26,900
whatever. 
But I definitely notice when I, 

622
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,100
when I'm not doing it, I notice 
a difference. 

623
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:30,900
So it must be doing something 
good for me. 

624
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:36,900
So this is interesting now, and 
do you try to do these routines?

625
00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:40,199
Also when you're abroad in 
hotels to your select hotels, 

626
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:44,199
for Sana na. 
So like if they have one, I try 

627
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:47,699
and use it, but I don't go out 
of my way to do that. 

628
00:34:47,699 --> 00:34:50,000
The other thing, as well as 
like, I find when I'm, when I am

629
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,600
traveling, when I am away. 
It's a hangover that I sort of 

630
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,700
have from the Army's. 
I'm not a good traveler in 

631
00:34:58,700 --> 00:35:02,500
regards to like taking time off.
I really don't like for me when 

632
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:04,800
I'm away from my family. 
I want to work 24/7. 

633
00:35:04,900 --> 00:35:07,400
I don't want to have downtime I 
want. 

634
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,600
Like I don't want to try and 
turn a holiday like a work. 

635
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,600
Trip into a holiday, really? 
I just want to like work as hard

636
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,800
as much as I possibly can get as
much value from that trip 

637
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,100
because I don't really want time
off by myself. 

638
00:35:20,100 --> 00:35:23,100
If I'm going to take time off 
and I want to do that with my 

639
00:35:23,100 --> 00:35:28,000
wife and my kids. 
So, I remember when I first met 

640
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,500
Bart and I said to him, you 
know, you must have seen the 

641
00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:34,000
whole world, like what an 
amazing life, you've LED. 

642
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,300
And he said, Pat I've seen 
airports hotels and dog training

643
00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:39,700
facilities, that's all I've 
seen. 

644
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,200
And I remember thinking to 
myself at the time. 

645
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:46,200
Oh, that's ridiculous. 
Like I would never, that's, I 

646
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,500
would never do that. 
That's, and you know, here, we 

647
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:51,900
are however many years later, 
and I do the exact same thing. 

648
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,500
All I have to say is airports, 
hotels and dog training 

649
00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:57,900
facilities. 
Could be worse though. 

650
00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:00,700
Exactly, right. 
It's always an honor to be 

651
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:02,400
invited places to teach like 
that. 

652
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,400
It's a great thing. 
So since you're a producer, but 

653
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:13,000
you also travel a lot and this 
could be seen as a lot of to 

654
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,300
say. 
Yeah, lost time. 

655
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,700
Do you, are you an audiobook guy
or do you prefer show proper 

656
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:22,700
books or podcast? 
No, I I listen to a lot of 

657
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:28,300
audiobooks at the moment. 
I I try to not waste any time, 

658
00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:30,300
right? 
So like I've always think of my 

659
00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:33,600
car as my library. 
So I'm usually always he's 

660
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,900
listening to something, probably
one of the best and worst things

661
00:36:36,900 --> 00:36:40,900
I ever did was get a YouTube 
subscription, you know, so that 

662
00:36:41,300 --> 00:36:44,200
like I pay for YouTube rather 
than the free version so I don't

663
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,200
get the ads. 
But also my screen doesn't need 

664
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,900
to be open. 
That was the big changer. 

665
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:51,900
So like I am constantly 
listening to instructions. 

666
00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:55,100
No videos on anything that 
tickles my fancy, you know, like

667
00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:57,800
I'm an obsessive researcher 
every now. 

668
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,200
And again, I have to take a 
break from that and I do enjoy, 

669
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:07,600
you know, not fiction, but sort 
of not, so text heavy stuff, you

670
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,000
know? 
Like, just something to sort of,

671
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,200
just enjoy the story. 
I'm a Storyteller myself out. 

672
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,600
That's how I teach I teach 
through telling stories and I 

673
00:37:16,607 --> 00:37:20,700
think that I really enjoy the 
process of hearing stories. 

674
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:23,200
I like being told. 
He's by good storytellers. 

675
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,300
I like I like analyzing the way 
that it is told. 

676
00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:28,900
And, you know, coming up with 
like, why does certain 

677
00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:31,500
characters need to exist? 
Because it's a plot device that 

678
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:33,200
allows for things to move 
forward, you know? 

679
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,700
Like there's just lots of 
interesting things like that, 

680
00:37:35,700 --> 00:37:39,400
like I do the same in movies. 
I love watching movies and sort 

681
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,500
of Beyond, just the 
entertainment value. 

682
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:46,300
I like, sort of trying really 
hard to understand like, what's 

683
00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:48,600
the message here? 
Like, why does that character 

684
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,200
feel that way? 
What is Yo one. 

685
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,700
And I think as a As a 
Storyteller, I like really 

686
00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:57,000
trying to understand what is the
function of different characters

687
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,000
you know like when you're 
writing a story or you're making

688
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,200
something up like every every 
character has to have a function

689
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:07,000
there to serve a purpose and so 
I enjoy that sort of fiction 

690
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,400
stuff like that but with a 
strong message. 

691
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,700
So I listen to a lot of that but
I'm a terrible reader. 

692
00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:14,800
I'm really am a terrible reader 
so I don't. 

693
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,200
Okay read, I don't read many 
books. 

694
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,500
I I just have a hard time sort 
of a similar Relating that 

695
00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:24,900
information. 
I'm really good at understanding

696
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:29,100
when I'm when when I hear 
something, I usually remember it

697
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:31,500
very well, especially if it's 
given if I hear it in the 

698
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:35,800
context of your a story about 
something that like if it 

699
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,000
relates specifically to an event
I'm really good at sort of 

700
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,200
understanding things but I just 
am not very good at reading. 

701
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,400
I just I find my mind wandering.
I lose interest that I find 

702
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,900
myself like reading the words 
but I'm not actually taking in 

703
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,900
The message like, I can't when I
listen to things, it is this 

704
00:38:55,900 --> 00:38:58,600
really strange that I also I 
read a lot actually. 

705
00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:02,100
Meanwhile again and I also 
listened to a lot of audiobooks 

706
00:39:02,100 --> 00:39:06,000
in some traveling as well 
through Europe, and these are 

707
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:11,600
great opportunities to listen to
some stories but it's somehow 

708
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,700
Yeah, horrible to realize that 
I'm listening to a series of 

709
00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:19,300
books. 
Each book is around maybe 15 to 

710
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:24,000
17 hours, and I can't remember a
single name of one of the 

711
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:29,200
characters, I think if, if I 
would want to recommend the book

712
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,100
to someone, well, yeah, I've 
just been listening to this and 

713
00:39:32,100 --> 00:39:34,300
that, and you should really 
listen to it yourself. 

714
00:39:34,300 --> 00:39:41,600
Okay, tell me about it. 
Well, well, it's a thriller, but

715
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,800
it's entertainment. 
Somehow so exactly right and I 

716
00:39:44,808 --> 00:39:48,900
think that sometimes you need 
especially for people who like 

717
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:52,000
you and I and others in the dog 
space that are constantly sort 

718
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,300
of striving forward. 
Everybody's always trying to 

719
00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:56,700
learn you. 
You, you could dedicate your 

720
00:39:56,700 --> 00:39:59,900
entire life to trying to 
understand, dog training in its 

721
00:39:59,900 --> 00:40:02,200
entirety and not even scratch 
the surface of it. 

722
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:07,600
So I think sometimes it's 
important to to not do that, 

723
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,700
right to sort of switch off a 
little bit and just be 

724
00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:14,100
entertained for a period. 
I think that's really important.

725
00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:18,100
I think that, you know, all work
and no play makes Jack a Dull 

726
00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:20,200
Boy, right? 
So like I think that just 

727
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,700
allowing yourself that switch 
off time and just be told a 

728
00:40:22,707 --> 00:40:24,400
story that you have paying 
attention to. 

729
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,600
I think that's important. 
You shouldn't feel bad about 

730
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:27,700
that at all. 
Yeah. 

731
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:36,500
Good to hear it from you but 
still concerning remembering 

732
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:39,500
things. 
Is there a specific quote that 

733
00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:42,500
you like to tell others of that 
you have in your mind? 

734
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:50,300
and for yourself, Ida's heaps, 
it depends on what I'm trying to

735
00:40:50,308 --> 00:40:54,100
convey. 
I find myself quoting a lot of 

736
00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:56,100
dog trainers, all the time 
things that I've heard from 

737
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:58,400
them. 
And then very often finding out 

738
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,000
that they actually just stole 
that from someone else. 

739
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,500
And so, I find myself being 
guilty of doing the same. 

740
00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:09,000
I usually give attribution to 
someone three or four times 

741
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,500
before. 
I just forget to do that 

742
00:41:10,500 --> 00:41:12,500
anymore, it becomes my own 
quote, then. 

743
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:20,800
But I don't have like a There's 
no man try anything that I have.

744
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,500
There's no strong quote that I 
sort of find myself repeating 

745
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:27,500
over and over. 
I don't really but I think that 

746
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,800
yeah there's no specific there's
no one specific thing that I 

747
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,400
would say. 
It's fine. 

748
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,700
So we go on to the next one. 
So, You've said, you are having 

749
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:45,600
two dogs, any other pets, even 
other pets that you have trained

750
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,200
so far. 
I know it's like, I just have 

751
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:53,500
two dogs of my own. 
Now, I live in a really 

752
00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:57,600
inappropriate setting for a dog 
trainer, so I leave it like 

753
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,400
quite a small town house in the 
city in Sydney. 

754
00:42:02,300 --> 00:42:07,700
And so, even to dogs is a 
stretch like I couldn't I 

755
00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:10,400
couldn't like I can, I can, I 
can have four dogs. 

756
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,800
And so I have two of my own and 
I can have to who passing 

757
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,300
through, you know, like being 
trained for whatever but that's 

758
00:42:17,300 --> 00:42:23,000
kind of the limit and I as much 
as I would love to have more 

759
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,100
pets and I'd love to have more 
space. 

760
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,800
The idea of moving in order to 
have those. 

761
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,500
It like it just doesn't fit my 
family of my lifestyle and 

762
00:42:31,500 --> 00:42:32,900
stuff. 
Like, I think about that quite a

763
00:42:32,908 --> 00:42:36,000
lot. 
I like, for me in what I do. 

764
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,800
I would like to move outside of 
the city and I would like to 

765
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,400
have a few Acres, you know? 
Oh, so have 10 kennels and I 

766
00:42:42,408 --> 00:42:46,300
could have more dogs that I 
would have all those things but 

767
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,900
to uproot my family just because
I want more animals. 

768
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:53,700
Like I have I have plenty of 
access to training other 

769
00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:55,900
people's which is probably 
truth. 

770
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:59,100
Be told like my own Malley that 
I have at the moment. 

771
00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:00,900
He's the oldest I've ever kept 
one. 

772
00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:05,200
I've never had one as long 
because I know I'm in the sports

773
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,000
now as much as I possibly can, 
but I like turning dogs into 

774
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,200
something I don't really like 
having That thing so I enjoy the

775
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,600
training Journey, much more than
I enjoy the destination and and 

776
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,100
being there. 
So for me, it just makes sense 

777
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:22,000
to keep the space in my house, 
to have other people's dogs 

778
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,700
comes in, teach them what people
want me to teach them and then 

779
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:32,900
move them on. 
Wouldn't be there, or would you 

780
00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:38,400
have been interested in any kind
of training of other animals 

781
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:43,300
because I believe in a spirit 
you have certain see Parks or I 

782
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,300
don't know, I don't know what 
possibilities you have training 

783
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:48,700
with all sorts of dangerous 
animals that you're having down 

784
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:53,100
there. 
Yeah, I have a, I have an 

785
00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:56,300
interest in it for sure, but 
I've never really pursued that. 

786
00:43:56,300 --> 00:44:01,100
I think that I think that dogs. 
Present an opportunity for 

787
00:44:01,100 --> 00:44:08,500
training that is, I think more 
enjoyable than most other 

788
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:11,500
animals. 
I think that not that I have 

789
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:15,000
very much experience at all with
the exotic animals at all or 

790
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,500
wild animals at all. 
But I think that the training of

791
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:22,300
them usually is quite 
transactional, you know because 

792
00:44:22,300 --> 00:44:26,400
they don't necessarily want to 
be trained beyond the reinforces

793
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,000
that you give them. 
And I think that that's kind of 

794
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,600
the issue we Face quite a Bit in
the people who educate us as dog

795
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,800
trainers are very often, you 
know, animal trainers and the 

796
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,800
they trained a variety of 
species and very often, you 

797
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:46,300
know, wild animals or animals 
that given the opportunity would

798
00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:49,300
just leave, right? 
And so the way that you would 

799
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:53,100
train them is I think different 
to the way that you would train 

800
00:44:53,100 --> 00:44:55,500
a dog. 
And I think that that's why I 

801
00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:59,600
personally really only enjoyed a
train hunting and herding dogs 

802
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,900
because Is that they want to be 
trained, right? 

803
00:45:01,900 --> 00:45:04,400
Like, they don't really know 
what to do with themselves 

804
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:10,100
without direction from you and 
my take on animals, as well as 

805
00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:14,500
like I once a dog is within my 
family, I don't want to have to 

806
00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:16,600
lock him in the house, you know?
Like my dog. 

807
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,800
If he wanted to leave, he could,
but I don't want him to and he 

808
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,800
doesn't want to, he enjoys being
there and that like the idea of 

809
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,100
training an animal that would 
lie given the opportunity. 

810
00:45:25,100 --> 00:45:28,000
Like I just, I just don't find a
lot of value in that personally,

811
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:33,000
and I think Think that like it's
a little bit of an ego game 

812
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,100
especially like I, you know, 
don't get me wrong. 

813
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:37,700
I go to the zoo, I watched the 
seal show, I enjoy it. 

814
00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:39,200
I like watching them do their 
tricks. 

815
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,400
I think it's very impressive but
I think that they are just 

816
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,200
monkey as Bart would say like 
they're just monkey drills. 

817
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,900
So just things that you stopped.
If you stop giving that Turtle, 

818
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,100
it's reinforces. 
It's going to stop moving in the

819
00:45:53,100 --> 00:45:54,600
way that you have trained it to 
move. 

820
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,100
Whereas I think with, with dogs,
there's an element of like, Hey,

821
00:45:58,100 --> 00:46:01,600
we're in this together and and 
you can You're playing more 

822
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:06,200
like, you know, in a more 
Cooperative Ray rather than it 

823
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:07,800
just being straight 
reinforcements. 

824
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,100
I think that that's kind of the 
issue. 

825
00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:12,000
I think that we Face very often 
is the people who educate us 

826
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,900
Veterinary behavioralists and 
what is true of all animals? 

827
00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:20,500
Like, if you look sort of that 
50,000 foot View, and look at 

828
00:46:20,508 --> 00:46:25,000
like, this is true of animals is
not always necessarily true of 

829
00:46:25,008 --> 00:46:28,300
domesticated animals because 
they are built to work 

830
00:46:28,300 --> 00:46:32,100
differently and I think I think 
we see that sometimes in some 

831
00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:35,100
dog breeds like the more 
primitive breeds that really 

832
00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:39,300
don't like say one thing in 
Australia we have is Kelpies and

833
00:46:39,300 --> 00:46:43,100
we have these incredible working
line Kelpies but they're you 

834
00:46:43,100 --> 00:46:47,600
know the really good Bloodlines 
of those they're very primitive 

835
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,000
dog. 
Like they don't really have very

836
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,200
much food drive at all because 
they're life. 

837
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,100
Usually if they're working on a 
farm is that they're chained to 

838
00:46:56,100 --> 00:46:59,900
a tree and they get given a 
kangaroo carcass once. 

839
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,900
Wake and they get uncle'. 
Get unclipped from the chain to 

840
00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:05,700
get onto a motorbike to get 
driven out into the paddock to 

841
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,800
move sheep or cattle or whatever
they do. 

842
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,700
And at the end of the day, they 
get back onto their motorbike, 

843
00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:12,600
they get driven back, they get 
dropped off at the chain, they 

844
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,900
get chained out. 
So in training, those dog, 

845
00:47:15,900 --> 00:47:19,200
they're a lot like a wild animal
in that, they really that 

846
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,300
they're not interested in 
developing a relationship with 

847
00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:23,900
you, they aren't there. 
The idea of hanging out with you

848
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:27,000
is not something they're 
interested in doing, you can't 

849
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,900
really leverage food because 
they They are one of the few 

850
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:32,300
breeds that will starve 
themselves. 

851
00:47:32,300 --> 00:47:34,700
Pretty close to death because 
they're selected. 

852
00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:38,700
Yeah they're selected for having
extremely low food drive because

853
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,300
they don't like if they find a 
carcass or something in the in 

854
00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:45,100
the field, they don't want them 
having anything to do with it 

855
00:47:45,100 --> 00:47:46,600
that they're way more interested
in the work. 

856
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:49,700
So a lot of the really good 
high-end working Kelpies, you 

857
00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:52,800
almost have to beg them to eat 
when it's done with, it's time 

858
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,900
to do so. 
So there's something more like 

859
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,800
like the wild animals that 
people. 

860
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,700
And then tell us about how to 
train and go and it's so 

861
00:48:02,700 --> 00:48:05,500
transactional. 
It's like, you do this several 

862
00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:07,700
trillion, the thing? 
Yeah, you do this and I'll give 

863
00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:10,100
you the thing and if I don't 
want you to do it, I can just, I

864
00:48:10,100 --> 00:48:12,700
can, you know, provide an 
aversive stimulus and you won't 

865
00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:14,300
do it. 
Like it's really easy to 

866
00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:16,900
manipulate these things and 
they're often they're in their 

867
00:48:16,900 --> 00:48:18,700
Skinner box right there in their
enclosure. 

868
00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:20,700
They can't go anywhere. 
They can't leave their stuck 

869
00:48:20,700 --> 00:48:23,100
there. 
So they often a participant in 

870
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:24,900
the training because I have no 
choice. 

871
00:48:25,300 --> 00:48:29,100
Whereas like, I find that dogs 
is really different, right? 

872
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:31,800
I think that you You can 
reinforce a dog just by the way,

873
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,900
you look at it and you can sort 
of pop your shoulder at a dog, 

874
00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:37,700
and invite play in a way that 
you just can't do that with a 

875
00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:39,700
wild animal. 
They're not interested in having

876
00:48:39,700 --> 00:48:41,100
a relationship with you like 
that. 

877
00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:45,300
So it's interesting as I find to
sort of get back to your 

878
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:49,300
question, as interesting, as I 
find like training of these of 

879
00:48:49,300 --> 00:48:51,800
exotic animals, it's very 
interesting and there's much to 

880
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,300
learn from it. 
I really don't have a strong 

881
00:48:55,300 --> 00:48:58,900
pull towards it because like I 
find dog training is just so 

882
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:02,800
much More fulfilling because you
can actually develop a 

883
00:49:02,808 --> 00:49:05,600
relationship with the dog and 
the idea that is that the dog 

884
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,100
wants to work with. 
And for you rather than just 

885
00:49:09,100 --> 00:49:12,200
like, oh, like you give me the 
things and I'll do the tricks. 

886
00:49:12,700 --> 00:49:15,700
Like I enjoy the idea, 
especially with military working

887
00:49:15,700 --> 00:49:18,400
dogs and police dogs. 
Like once they realize that 

888
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,500
you're hunting, people like it 
if you would have seen that like

889
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:23,900
they something changes in the 
dog. 

890
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:27,400
Like you teach a dog to track 
it, teach it how to bite people,

891
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,200
you teach it all to do all these
things and they're just moments 

892
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,400
of something together. 
But when a dog goes on its first

893
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:37,400
live track and find someone and 
either B them or, you know, 

894
00:49:37,500 --> 00:49:40,100
apprehends them in one way or 
another, they give up whatever 

895
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,100
that really changes with the dog
and I see that relationship 

896
00:49:43,100 --> 00:49:45,500
change between the dog and the 
Handler where the dog then goes.

897
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:50,600
Oh all this stuff we've been 
doing to get to this point was 

898
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,500
to prepare for this and the dog 
sort of has that understanding 

899
00:49:53,500 --> 00:49:56,100
of like, oh, we're hunting 
people. 

900
00:49:56,100 --> 00:49:58,600
This is what we're actually 
doing and we're doing it 

901
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,900
together like this. 
Isn't just a trick. 

902
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:04,100
I'm not following a scent that 
leads me to getting food and 

903
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:07,000
like I'm not following a track 
that has a ball at the end of 

904
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,400
it. 
You know, like the dog sort of 

905
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,600
has that understanding of odd. 
We are in this together. 

906
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,700
We are doing it. 
And when you see a really in 

907
00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:17,600
tune handle, a team, come 
together like that. 

908
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:19,500
I just think that that's, 
there's a magic to that that you

909
00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:22,500
just don't, I have not observed 
in other species. 

910
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:28,900
And like, I say, I'm not super 
not very well experienced in 

911
00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:31,000
training other animals. 
Just because it just doesn't 

912
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,400
have that ulua to me. 
It doesn't, it doesn't strike me

913
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,200
as something that I would enjoy 
anywhere near as much as 

914
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,700
training dogs. 
And I think there's plenty of 

915
00:50:39,700 --> 00:50:42,700
dogs for me to train. 
I don't need to be searching for

916
00:50:42,700 --> 00:50:47,100
other species. 
That said, I will admit my dad 

917
00:50:47,100 --> 00:50:50,500
has as long as I can. 
Remember, my dad has always had 

918
00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:56,200
a wild bird as a friend and and 
I'm quite jealous of that and I 

919
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,800
would like to replicate that, 
but my dogs hate birds. 

920
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,200
And so I've never been out of Do
it. 

921
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,900
But like my dad has as long as I
can remember. 

922
00:51:02,900 --> 00:51:06,300
He's a that had a kookaburra or 
a magpie or a team of them or 

923
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:09,800
whatever that he trains, they 
live wild, but they come to him,

924
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,000
and they spend time with him, he
feeds them and he develops a 

925
00:51:13,008 --> 00:51:16,300
relationship with them. 
So I will admit I'm kind of 

926
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:19,100
jealous of that. 
I love to do that but still I 

927
00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:23,800
think that all those birds they 
just like the food that my Dad 

928
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,200
gives them, you know what I 
mean? 

929
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:29,700
Like I don't like him very much,
I just know. 

930
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,900
That they, they liked that, he 
offers them food from his hand 

931
00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:39,400
and they come down and take it. 
Yeah, yeah, I understand on the 

932
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,400
other hand it's it's always 
quite impressive, especially in 

933
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:47,400
the bird training and, and maybe
you find the time to listen to a

934
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:53,500
pet Nolan's into with me. 
So he has this great story which

935
00:51:53,500 --> 00:52:02,200
was also having an impact on 
himself, but he Yet he had a I 

936
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:07,000
don't know if it was an eagle or
a little bit of smaller bird, I 

937
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,400
guess it was a smaller bird and 
he caught this bird in a 

938
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,000
wildness and train the bird for 
two weeks. 

939
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:18,200
And after two weeks he managed 
to let the bird fly free and 

940
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,100
return. 
And and that was one of the 

941
00:52:21,107 --> 00:52:24,800
points where he realized, oh wow
what what have we been doing to 

942
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,700
our dog's back then to get them 
back to us with so much? 

943
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,400
Pressure and and this bird could
just fly away. 

944
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:38,700
The bird doesn't need him at all
but still he just returned of 

945
00:52:38,707 --> 00:52:42,900
course because he had some some,
some food I guess on his glove. 

946
00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:47,300
But somehow, I really like this 
story and yeah, I've heard Pat 

947
00:52:47,300 --> 00:52:52,100
tell that story and it's it is 
profound for sure. 

948
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,500
And I think that he tells it in 
the context of, you know, old 

949
00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:58,100
school training being fairly 
compulsive, right? 

950
00:52:58,100 --> 00:53:02,800
And and this idea of force The 
dog to do things and I think you

951
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:04,800
know I watch Pat stuff, that's 
incredible. 

952
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,000
He might be one of the best dog 
trainers to ever walk the face 

953
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,200
of the Earth but he's he has 
absolutely you know, been on 

954
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:15,900
that Journey like he's probably 
he's seen dog training from what

955
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:19,400
it was so long ago to being at 
The Cutting Edge of what it is 

956
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,500
now, which is impressive in and 
of itself, right? 

957
00:53:21,500 --> 00:53:26,400
That someone can be in the 
industry for so long and not be 

958
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,900
left behind. 
Like we see that a lot. 

959
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:30,400
You know people who are say I've
been training dogs for 30, 40 

960
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,900
years and you're like, yeah, but
you stop learning 18 months in, 

961
00:53:32,900 --> 00:53:34,700
you know, like no one's having 
to learn from you. 

962
00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:37,800
Yes, you using proven techniques
and it works and I can 

963
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,900
observably. 
I can see that the dog does what

964
00:53:39,900 --> 00:53:43,000
you're asking him to do, but not
with the power and the grace 

965
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,900
that my dog does it with, but 
perhaps the opposite, right? 

966
00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:51,700
Pat is he's done at all from the
original very compulsive days 

967
00:53:51,700 --> 00:53:55,500
because no one knew better all 
the way up to, you know, really 

968
00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:58,200
leading the charge and how to 
teach extremely complex 

969
00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:59,700
behaviors and that distance with
him. 

970
00:53:59,900 --> 00:54:03,100
Edible dogs and so it's a 
profound story but I think it 

971
00:54:03,100 --> 00:54:06,500
even further highlights. 
What I mean is that like that 

972
00:54:06,500 --> 00:54:09,600
the capacity for that we have 
for training dogs is kind of 

973
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:13,100
endless, you know, like I think 
that there's so much more we can

974
00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:16,700
do so much more we can learn 
about how to do that with them 

975
00:54:16,700 --> 00:54:22,400
and end and the more that we 
understand dogs that the more 

976
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:26,400
opening, the more, the more we 
can train them in ways that are 

977
00:54:26,900 --> 00:54:29,700
more Cooperative, but also bring
that reliability. 

978
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,200
Leti piece and I think that's 
sort of the key to dog training,

979
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:33,500
right? 
Like everybody wants to, 

980
00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:35,000
everybody wants to do right by 
their dogs. 

981
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,200
I think everybody that is in the
industry in one way or another 

982
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,000
thinks that they're doing what's
right by the dogs. 

983
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,900
And so I think that's like for 
me, what's important is that 

984
00:54:46,100 --> 00:54:51,100
like I continue to do that but 
in a way that I as I learn more 

985
00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:53,200
about dogs and I learn how to 
read dogs better and I 

986
00:54:53,207 --> 00:54:56,300
understand dogs better, I 
continue to train them in a way 

987
00:54:56,500 --> 00:54:59,100
that improves that like I want 
to improve. 

988
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,600
For a better result and the 
result includes the experience 

989
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,300
of the dog, right. 
I like the dog doing it and 

990
00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:10,200
doing it. 
Reliably is important to me 

991
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:13,500
that's probably you know like a 
big chunk of what I consider to 

992
00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:18,500
be effective dog training but 
also doing it with power and 

993
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:21,000
doing it with like as Bart would
say with heart and soul like 

994
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,300
doing it with desire and showing
actual enthusiasm to do it 

995
00:55:24,500 --> 00:55:28,600
Beyond just the reinforces that,
I'll give him like you're doing 

996
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:29,700
whatever it is. 
I've asked him to do. 

997
00:55:29,900 --> 00:55:33,400
Because we're doing it together.
I think that that's something 

998
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:38,100
that I really enjoy and want to 
progress doing great. 

999
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,900
There and I guess this also 
counts, not just for working 

1000
00:55:43,900 --> 00:55:46,800
dogs, because reliability is 
needed. 

1001
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:51,800
Also for pet dogs and you should
leave them behind. 

1002
00:55:52,100 --> 00:55:57,900
So Pat, let's go and and play My
First Response game. 

1003
00:56:10,500 --> 00:56:16,500
So I will just throw some short 
phrases at you and I would like 

1004
00:56:16,700 --> 00:56:21,400
you to give a very intuitive and
short quick response. 

1005
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:22,600
Answer. 
Right. 

1006
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,500
And of course, we can afterwards
pick out some of the terms and 

1007
00:56:27,500 --> 00:56:30,800
and and discuss them a little 
bit more in detail. 

1008
00:56:33,500 --> 00:56:36,100
Okay, no other rules are 
required. 

1009
00:56:36,300 --> 00:56:40,300
Okay? 
So toys vs. 

1010
00:56:40,300 --> 00:56:51,900
Food in training. oh, both great
answer most valuable thing, or 

1011
00:56:51,900 --> 00:56:59,600
trade you've learned in your 
soft times patients, Interesting

1012
00:57:00,300 --> 00:57:08,600
positive only Community. 
Well, maintaining good at rate. 

1013
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:15,100
Every trainer should have I'll 
probably get patients again. 

1014
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,500
Yeah, that's what Simon Prince 
said yesterday, as well. 

1015
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:25,500
Positive punishment. 
Yeah, necessary. 

1016
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:32,700
Your favorite breeding? 
Oh pitbulls actually ha. 

1017
00:57:32,900 --> 00:57:36,700
All right, this was it and you 
really mastered it. 

1018
00:57:36,700 --> 00:57:41,900
I loved your short answers. 
Great, very interesting. 

1019
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:48,800
So is there any that you would 
want to add something? 

1020
00:57:48,900 --> 00:57:52,800
Or I would be happy to elaborate
on the mall. 

1021
00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:04,100
How much time do we have? 
Well, I also think I'm I think 

1022
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,700
even the first question is quite
provocative toys vs. 

1023
00:58:07,700 --> 00:58:12,700
Food because and of course there
are there are there parts of the

1024
00:58:12,700 --> 00:58:17,900
training or times in training 
where I do or makes more sense. 

1025
00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:25,100
But the community where I come 
from in search-and-rescue 

1026
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:32,900
actually and sometimes still has
things that they only want to 

1027
00:58:32,900 --> 00:58:38,500
train dogs with food, for 
example, because they don't want

1028
00:58:38,500 --> 00:58:42,600
their dogs to train to hunt, 
which is ridiculous because 

1029
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,900
obviously they didn't understand
that their dogs are hunting 

1030
00:58:44,900 --> 00:58:51,000
human beings and things like 
this, or using food and 

1031
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,600
developing behaviors and in 
training behaviors. 

1032
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:59,600
And then, Making bigger steps 
and and save them with Toya 

1033
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:04,700
reward or toy by his rewards. 
And so I like this question 

1034
00:59:04,700 --> 00:59:10,400
because yeah or actually I just 
really liked your answer to it 

1035
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:17,600
and what are your I think about 
math, I think, for me, I you 

1036
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,500
know, food and toys with their 
reinforces, right? 

1037
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:22,500
We're going to use them to 
increase the frequency and 

1038
00:59:22,500 --> 00:59:25,900
likelihood of a behavior and 
we're going to hopefully Use 

1039
00:59:25,900 --> 00:59:29,800
them in terms of being positive 
reinforcement, what I think is 

1040
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:31,700
important in the use of positive
reinforcement. 

1041
00:59:31,700 --> 00:59:35,200
And sometimes gets killed is 
that we should use the 

1042
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,300
reinforcer, that brings on the 
appropriate level of arousal. 

1043
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:43,900
So, you know, for example, I 
can't really teach my dog, very 

1044
00:59:43,900 --> 00:59:48,300
much in front of decoy, you 
know, or even that probably the 

1045
00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:51,000
highest level of arousal, 
absent, the B work, if we keep 

1046
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,900
it away from that. 
So that it's more accessible for

1047
00:59:52,900 --> 00:59:57,200
most people is just a regular. 
This bowl in the chuckit ball 

1048
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,100
launcher. 
For some reason, there's 

1049
00:59:59,100 --> 01:00:01,900
something about that that just 
lights my dog up and he's the 

1050
01:00:01,900 --> 01:00:07,000
arousal level gets so high that 
I can control him, I can tell 

1051
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,900
him to do things. 
He already knows but he doesn't 

1052
01:00:09,900 --> 01:00:13,000
have a level of clarity that he 
could learn anything new, he 

1053
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,300
becomes frantic almost because 
his desire is so high. 

1054
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:21,000
So I think also, my dog has 
quite a low food drive. 

1055
01:00:21,700 --> 01:00:25,200
He, I've built it to look like 
it's much more than it actually 

1056
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:26,700
is. 
But given the, you know, given 

1057
01:00:26,700 --> 01:00:29,500
the freedom to eat at his own 
pace, he's a slow eater, he 

1058
01:00:29,500 --> 01:00:32,300
doesn't he finds no rush she 
just sort of eats at his 

1059
01:00:32,300 --> 01:00:35,600
leisure. 
So for me, I think it's 

1060
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,200
important when I'm training a 
dog of any kind is to sort of 

1061
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,600
know, of all the tools that I 
have available to me, to train 

1062
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:47,100
the dog, whether it be food, but
not just food and toys. 

1063
01:00:47,100 --> 01:00:50,000
I mean, even what toys. 
And what games the dog wants to 

1064
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,900
play with those toys and in 
what, you know, setting and what

1065
01:00:52,900 --> 01:00:56,000
level of arousal brings on is 
like, I think I want to Add a 

1066
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,200
line those things up start to 
finish. 

1067
01:00:58,300 --> 01:01:02,700
And I want to be able to say, 
like this food or toy or 

1068
01:01:02,700 --> 01:01:06,400
whatever can bring on a level of
arousal. 

1069
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,100
And if I'm teaching something, 
I'll choose the the appropriate 

1070
01:01:10,100 --> 01:01:11,700
thing. 
And so, usually for me, like, 

1071
01:01:11,700 --> 01:01:15,900
with most dogs, this is speaking
fairly generally, is that food 

1072
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,200
brings on a level of arousal 
that the dog is like, most 

1073
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,300
capable of learning. 
I think that the dog 

1074
01:01:21,300 --> 01:01:22,200
understands. 
Yep. 

1075
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,500
That's food. 
I want it and I'm going to 

1076
01:01:24,500 --> 01:01:27,600
perform Behavior. as in order to
get more of it and that you know

1077
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,900
therefore it really acts as 
reinforcement along the way we 

1078
01:01:29,900 --> 01:01:34,200
can use it to educate the dog 
but I think again, speaking 

1079
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:38,400
generally a dog will work for a 
longer period of time and with 

1080
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:43,700
more intensity for a game so 
that the toy really is the means

1081
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:47,800
by which we play a game in the 
same way that me and you can 

1082
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:52,600
play Monopoly, but then we can 
change out and play Scrabble, 

1083
01:01:52,900 --> 01:01:55,200
but while we were playing 
Monopoly and while we were 

1084
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,900
playing, Rebel will actually 
playing with each other and I 

1085
01:01:57,908 --> 01:02:00,400
think that's what's important in
the toy aspect. 

1086
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,100
Is that sometimes what people 
forget, whether I'm using a bite

1087
01:02:03,100 --> 01:02:05,500
wedge, whether I'm using a ball,
whether I'm using, you know, 

1088
01:02:05,500 --> 01:02:09,300
whatever it is I'm using, that's
just the game that me and the 

1089
01:02:09,300 --> 01:02:11,100
dog are playing but we're 
playing together. 

1090
01:02:11,500 --> 01:02:16,600
But so I think that for the most
part you'll get more Persistence

1091
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,400
of behaviors will get more 
endurance you'll get like a dog 

1092
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,400
will work better for that game 
play that toy rather than for 

1093
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:26,900
food generally speaking but I 
think Even within those games, I

1094
01:02:26,908 --> 01:02:28,500
want to be able to line those up
in order. 

1095
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:30,600
So like, you know, say with my 
malli, for example, if I'm 

1096
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,600
trying to teach him something 
new to first, couple of sessions

1097
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:35,800
are almost always with food, and
the moment I bring out food in 

1098
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:38,600
the pouch, he's like, oh okay, 
we're learning something new and

1099
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,400
he becomes very thinky like he 
very clearly start searching for

1100
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,500
behaviors and and while I give 
him food, yes. 

1101
01:02:45,500 --> 01:02:46,800
It's satiates. 
His hunger. 

1102
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,900
Yes it's something. 
He needs to survive my dog at 

1103
01:02:49,900 --> 01:02:52,600
six years old and the amount of 
training that he Stars, realizes

1104
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,300
that it's very transactional, 
it's like me saying to him. 

1105
01:02:55,300 --> 01:02:56,000
Yes. 
Correct. 

1106
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,800
Keep on trying like you're on 
the right path. 

1107
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,400
He he really truly I think 
anyway he really understands 

1108
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:06,500
that so I think I don't commit 
to like I'm not a toy guy I'm 

1109
01:03:06,500 --> 01:03:09,700
not a food guy. 
I'm like which one of those 

1110
01:03:09,700 --> 01:03:12,500
things is going to allow me to 
communicate with the dog most 

1111
01:03:12,500 --> 01:03:14,900
appropriately in this session in
this moment. 

1112
01:03:14,900 --> 01:03:17,900
And to, you know, convey what it
is that I'm actually trying to 

1113
01:03:17,900 --> 01:03:21,800
have the dog learn and I'm going
to use the appropriate one and I

1114
01:03:21,808 --> 01:03:25,500
think, as I say, even with my 
dog, like food is like, usually 

1115
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,300
We a starting point and then I 
go to a ball, just a straight 

1116
01:03:28,300 --> 01:03:30,900
ball that's loose, so that 
there's no string or anything on

1117
01:03:30,900 --> 01:03:31,700
it. 
And I just throw it. 

1118
01:03:31,700 --> 01:03:33,700
He very quickly grabs that he 
likes the chase of it. 

1119
01:03:33,700 --> 01:03:36,300
He gives it back to me and very 
small throws like I just pop it 

1120
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,700
after that, I use a frisbee 
because same sort of deal, he 

1121
01:03:39,700 --> 01:03:42,200
gets a nice Chase. 
He enjoys it after that I put 

1122
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,500
the ball on a string and now we 
can fight a little bit. 

1123
01:03:44,500 --> 01:03:48,100
He enjoys the fight and then the
final thing I'll you know absent

1124
01:03:48,100 --> 01:03:52,500
the decoy is then. 
I put the ball in the truck it 

1125
01:03:52,500 --> 01:03:55,300
and for me, that's really 
proofing at that point. 

1126
01:03:55,300 --> 01:03:59,000
Like Now I'm like, I know, I 
know you have an extreme level 

1127
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,100
of desire to want this thing but
I need you to do what I have 

1128
01:04:02,100 --> 01:04:05,900
been teaching you to do and in 
in order to earn this and that's

1129
01:04:05,900 --> 01:04:07,500
when I will call a behavior 
complete. 

1130
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:10,200
Like, that's when I say, yep, 
you know, it you'll do it. 

1131
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,300
I can reliably, you know, I put 
that in the Rolodex of things 

1132
01:04:14,300 --> 01:04:17,400
that I can ask for. 
So yeah, that's my very long 

1133
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:19,400
answer instead of saying just 
both. 

1134
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:26,300
That's mine, you know. 
I think actually It is would be 

1135
01:04:26,300 --> 01:04:30,900
worth an episode for its own 
food and toys in training 

1136
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:36,000
because so so many. 
First of all, there is not just 

1137
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,400
one path and there are so many 
different experiences and 

1138
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:45,000
approaches to how to how to get 
both into training. 

1139
01:04:45,100 --> 01:04:49,200
So yeah, maybe maybe we find 
some time for this in. 

1140
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:56,400
Yeah, in future, I would love to
do so because I just got 

1141
01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:00,900
triggered by a few words and I 
would love to go more into the 

1142
01:05:00,900 --> 01:05:06,100
deep discussion with this, but I
have to stick to the script for 

1143
01:05:06,100 --> 01:05:13,500
today. 
Otherwise this will escalate in 

1144
01:05:13,500 --> 01:05:18,500
time in a sense of time. 
So and you gave twice the same 

1145
01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:25,000
answer, patients and the second 
question most valuable thing. 

1146
01:05:25,100 --> 01:05:27,300
If Don't in soft but also a 
trade. 

1147
01:05:27,300 --> 01:05:33,500
Every trainer should have and so
tell me a little more about 

1148
01:05:33,500 --> 01:05:35,600
this. 
Also, as a ready mentioned, 

1149
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:40,000
Simon set as well, patience is 
one of the, I believe is one of 

1150
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,000
the most important traits, a 
trainer should have. 

1151
01:05:44,100 --> 01:05:48,100
But why why in the sort of can I
can I swear on your show? 

1152
01:05:48,700 --> 01:05:52,200
Yes. 
I even wrote it in the 

1153
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:58,700
invitation. 
You can make sure so many years 

1154
01:05:58,700 --> 01:06:04,800
ago in Afghanistan. 
No, I was involved in an action.

1155
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:06,600
I wanted to go down and get 
involved. 

1156
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:11,900
I wanted to, I mean, long story 
short, I was hot-tempered and 

1157
01:06:11,900 --> 01:06:18,100
wanted to go down and cause some
Carnage and a friend of mine who

1158
01:06:18,100 --> 01:06:20,700
was much older, much more 
experienced than me said, Slow 

1159
01:06:20,700 --> 01:06:23,900
Down, young bull and I was like 
what he called. 

1160
01:06:23,900 --> 01:06:25,100
Like I'd never been called the 
ball. 

1161
01:06:25,100 --> 01:06:27,800
It's not a nickname I have. 
And he goes, you're, he goes, 

1162
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,400
you're the young boy and I'm the
old Bull and I was like, what do

1163
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:31,400
you mean? 
And he goes, you don't know the 

1164
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,000
story of the Bulls. 
I was like, No And he says, so 

1165
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,500
one day, the young bull and the 
old bull are standing on a hill 

1166
01:06:37,700 --> 01:06:40,100
and there's all these cows down 
in the paddock below. 

1167
01:06:40,100 --> 01:06:42,300
The young bull looks to the old 
ball and he says you know what 

1168
01:06:42,300 --> 01:06:44,700
we should do? 
We should go down there and fuck

1169
01:06:44,700 --> 01:06:46,300
those cows. 
We should run down there and 

1170
01:06:46,300 --> 01:06:49,500
fuck one each and the bull says 
yep. 

1171
01:06:50,300 --> 01:06:58,600
Or we could just walk down there
and fuck them all and it is like

1172
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,400
a lesson in like just slow down 
and take your time and get it 

1173
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,400
done properly. 
All right, if I can, in this 

1174
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,900
instance, I wanted to just run 
in for lawn. 

1175
01:07:05,900 --> 01:07:07,700
And what would have happened? 
No doubt. 

1176
01:07:07,700 --> 01:07:09,700
Because I'd done it before was, 
I was going to run into an 

1177
01:07:09,700 --> 01:07:12,400
ambush and I was going to get 
myself in big, big trouble and 

1178
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:14,900
so, he was like, no, let's do 
this properly. 

1179
01:07:14,900 --> 01:07:16,600
Let's go down there and do it 
correctly. 

1180
01:07:16,900 --> 01:07:21,100
Yeah, I think patients is, you 
know, in my experience, that's 

1181
01:07:21,100 --> 01:07:24,500
one of the things that sort of 
the hardest to develop. 

1182
01:07:25,100 --> 01:07:27,700
It's a muscle that has to be 
flexed, you know, like, you have

1183
01:07:27,700 --> 01:07:31,100
to work it over time and build 
it like endurance, and I think 

1184
01:07:31,100 --> 01:07:34,200
that, Some people have more of 
it than others, but I think it 

1185
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:38,200
can be learned. 
And so, in regards to like, in 

1186
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:42,300
the SF Community for sure like, 
a lot of the times, people think

1187
01:07:42,300 --> 01:07:46,300
about the hardship of the SF, 
like Special Forces type stuff, 

1188
01:07:46,300 --> 01:07:48,300
like it is physically hard. 
There are times when it's 

1189
01:07:48,300 --> 01:07:50,700
incredibly hard and physically 
demanding and that sort of 

1190
01:07:50,700 --> 01:07:57,700
stuff, but war is in my 
experience, 99% boredom and 1% 

1191
01:07:57,700 --> 01:08:00,900
Terror. 
And so I think that you know, 

1192
01:08:00,900 --> 01:08:07,700
the Being able to deal with 
boredom is a big part of being 

1193
01:08:07,700 --> 01:08:11,400
in that SF Community because 
it's like, you know, the Army 

1194
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,000
sort of refers to it as hurry up
and wait, you know, like it's a 

1195
01:08:14,008 --> 01:08:18,800
lot of like doing nothing 
waiting for extremely intense 

1196
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:22,500
periods of action but then also 
during those intense periods of 

1197
01:08:22,500 --> 01:08:25,500
action, having the wherewithal 
and the forethought to make good

1198
01:08:25,500 --> 01:08:27,000
decisions. 
And I think that that's 

1199
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:28,800
patient's, right? 
I think that that is 

1200
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:31,300
understanding striking when the 
time is, right. 

1201
01:08:31,300 --> 01:08:36,300
Not When your enemy wants you to
which like I say I've been 

1202
01:08:36,300 --> 01:08:39,399
guilty of plenty of times. 
Like I made a friend of mine got

1203
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:40,899
sucked. 
So hard into an ambush. 

1204
01:08:40,899 --> 01:08:43,100
One day that we actually kiss 
our asses goodbye. 

1205
01:08:43,100 --> 01:08:45,899
We thought it was all over. 
We had to come in where two 

1206
01:08:45,899 --> 01:08:50,700
teams had to fight forward. 
To recover us was a huge, big 

1207
01:08:50,700 --> 01:08:55,399
deal and it was because we just 
were the young Bulls we got like

1208
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,800
we chased the guy down and 
before too long we realize like 

1209
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,700
oh we're totally dislocated. 
There's no one else around. 

1210
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:05,399
And now has surrounded, you 
know, like and it was just 

1211
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:07,600
impatience. 
It was just like that speed of 

1212
01:09:07,608 --> 01:09:10,200
action without thought. 
And I think that's what, that's 

1213
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:13,000
what impatience is, Right, speed
of action without thought. 

1214
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:17,899
And so I think that like, slow 
down, take your time. 

1215
01:09:17,899 --> 01:09:20,399
Do what's right? 
And at do what is the right 

1216
01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:22,500
thing to do at the right time to
do it. 

1217
01:09:22,500 --> 01:09:27,500
That's what patients is. 
Is it also taking emotional 

1218
01:09:27,500 --> 01:09:29,800
decisions. 
Yeah. 

1219
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,600
For sure. 
Yeah, impatience for sure. 

1220
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,600
Would like it's like this feels 
right in the moment. 

1221
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,399
This is going to satiate. 
Some immediate need rather than 

1222
01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:42,200
like ultimately be the right 
thing to do and I think in 

1223
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:46,300
regards to training that's the 
same like for me, I've 

1224
01:09:46,300 --> 01:09:49,100
overtrained every puppy I've 
ever had and to various degrees,

1225
01:09:49,100 --> 01:09:52,899
you know, like because I'm a dog
trainer I like training enjoy 

1226
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:58,100
LaJoie trained him to do stuff. 
And I find myself constantly 

1227
01:09:58,100 --> 01:10:00,200
telling people you're Too much 
slow down. 

1228
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:04,900
Let this dog grow up. 
And like, I'm very often the 

1229
01:10:04,900 --> 01:10:10,100
voice of reason in that space. 
And I even think I am too fast 

1230
01:10:10,100 --> 01:10:12,500
to train dogs. 
I think that I even don't give 

1231
01:10:12,500 --> 01:10:16,200
them enough time to grow up and 
actually develop and become who 

1232
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:18,500
they are. 
This is something I sort of hop 

1233
01:10:18,500 --> 01:10:22,200
on quite a lot about, especially
in the dogs in the those T1 

1234
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:26,400
Special Forces type dogs. 
Is that I think they're 

1235
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:30,200
expensive, right? 
And as you know, and And we try 

1236
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:33,200
certainly in this country and 
many the u.s. is the same. 

1237
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:37,000
We want to assess green dogs 
young, you know, like we want to

1238
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:38,700
sort of see, do they have the 
metal? 

1239
01:10:38,700 --> 01:10:42,100
It sort of eight, nine, ten 
twelve months old. 

1240
01:10:42,300 --> 01:10:43,600
Okay. 
Just think that that's kind of 

1241
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:47,200
ridiculous. 
I think that as I've said to 

1242
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:52,500
many guys like say it, my old 
unit is I was when I when I got 

1243
01:10:52,500 --> 01:10:54,900
into the unit I think I was the 
third youngest person to get in.

1244
01:10:54,900 --> 01:10:59,000
I was I was 20 and there's since
been even younger people get in.

1245
01:10:59,300 --> 01:11:02,200
But the average age of guys that
get into special forces units is

1246
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:06,100
like 25 and up and so, I think 
that it's kind of ridiculous 

1247
01:11:06,100 --> 01:11:08,800
that we put a dog through a 
selection phase. 

1248
01:11:09,300 --> 01:11:11,100
Some sort of, you know, 
selective criteria. 

1249
01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:14,000
That is equip its own equivalent
to doing a special forces 

1250
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,200
selection. 
And we do that with what is 

1251
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:21,100
essentially a teenager of a dog.
And I think that it's the 

1252
01:11:21,100 --> 01:11:24,800
problem is just like at my unit.
There's there was a guy who got 

1253
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:29,400
in at just turned 18 but he's a 
freak, he's not the Norm. 

1254
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:34,000
He is a genetic anomaly. 
And so, of course, every now and

1255
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:37,400
again, a dog gets through, they 
do the test at 10 months old and

1256
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:39,400
he gets through. 
And so it sets a standard of 

1257
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:43,300
like, oh, look, that is capable.
And yes, it's capable bit of a 

1258
01:11:43,300 --> 01:11:46,200
genetic freak, not the norm. 
And I think that a lot of the 

1259
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:50,100
selection criteria that we put 
dogs through actually sort of 

1260
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,700
the dog couldn't pass it because
he's too young but in failing 

1261
01:11:54,700 --> 01:11:58,200
the test. 
It sets that dog on an alternate

1262
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:01,200
pathway? 
He would perhaps never be able 

1263
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,900
to fart pass that test because 
of the experiences that happen 

1264
01:12:03,900 --> 01:12:07,100
to him on it whereas if he was 
just left to be two years old 

1265
01:12:07,100 --> 01:12:11,000
and and then given the 
opportunity then and he would be

1266
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,900
a different dog. 
And so I think that's that's one

1267
01:12:13,900 --> 01:12:16,600
of the forms patients like 
patients in training but also 

1268
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:19,200
patients in like just let the 
dog grow up. 

1269
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,300
Let him understand this stuff. 
Let him let their you know, in 

1270
01:12:22,300 --> 01:12:24,900
training and individual sessions
I think that we rush too much. 

1271
01:12:24,900 --> 01:12:27,700
I've been guilty of that but I 
think in general is an 

1272
01:12:27,700 --> 01:12:30,800
overarching thing. 
Just let dogs mature before we 

1273
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,500
try and put them into work. 
I think that's important as 

1274
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:35,600
well. 
So that I get it right. 

1275
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:44,000
You would prefer having a racing
up program for dogs up to the 

1276
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:48,200
age of around, twenty four 
months and then have some of 

1277
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:50,300
these assessments. 
Yeah. 

1278
01:12:50,300 --> 01:12:54,100
Yeah in a way like I think that 
it depends on the Bloodlines of 

1279
01:12:54,100 --> 01:12:55,800
the dogs, you know, somebody 
lied lines. 

1280
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,800
You know, they they they are who
they are at six. 

1281
01:12:59,100 --> 01:13:01,600
Nothing's going to change, but 
those tend not to be very thick 

1282
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:04,000
nerve dogs. 
In my experience in certainly in

1283
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:05,800
there in the ones that I have 
access to. 

1284
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:11,000
So like my own dog, for example,
at sort of 15 months, he was a 

1285
01:13:11,008 --> 01:13:14,900
bit funny, you know, like he had
a few sort of weird sort of 

1286
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:18,400
teenager weird habits. 
He was a little like he was kind

1287
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,900
of scared of the dark, you know,
like not scared of the dark but 

1288
01:13:20,900 --> 01:13:23,200
if you took him out at night he 
would become a bit aggressive 

1289
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:26,500
and a little bit civil and he 
was concerned like a not in a 

1290
01:13:26,500 --> 01:13:28,900
powerful way either like in a 
bit of a sort of scaredy-cat. 

1291
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:32,200
At way. 
And if he was being assessed at 

1292
01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:33,900
that point, you'd wash him out 
for sure. 

1293
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,300
But six months later, there's no
evidence that, that was ever the

1294
01:13:37,300 --> 01:13:39,400
case, like, he just grew out of 
it, you know, like it just 

1295
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:42,200
wasn't and I didn't address it. 
I just knew like, oh, you just 

1296
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:45,200
being an idiot like you this is 
this is just who you are for a 

1297
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,200
little while. 
Yeah, it's really interesting. 

1298
01:13:47,300 --> 01:13:52,500
Also for example, my pointer 
with around three years, he 

1299
01:13:52,500 --> 01:13:57,600
became a real, serious talk, and
very reliable Etc. 

1300
01:13:57,900 --> 01:14:02,800
But Think the difficulties who 
would, who would keep those 

1301
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,900
dogs, who would pay for them? 
That's the problem. 

1302
01:14:06,100 --> 01:14:07,900
That's the problem. 
It's all money, it's all money. 

1303
01:14:07,900 --> 01:14:10,700
And but one of the things that 
really annoys me mate is like 

1304
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:16,600
you say, look at like Special 
Forces, dog handler, or even a 

1305
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:19,400
SWAT team, like police, they're 
making more than a hundred 

1306
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:22,300
thousand dollars a year. 
Right there on good money 

1307
01:14:22,300 --> 01:14:24,500
because that is a very hard job 
for them to do. 

1308
01:14:26,100 --> 01:14:29,100
And so when you look at a dog, 
Right. 

1309
01:14:29,100 --> 01:14:33,300
Here's a force multiplier who 
like radically changes, how many

1310
01:14:33,300 --> 01:14:36,400
people you need on the ground 
and does things that the people 

1311
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:40,000
can't do, like, really truly 
adds to capability and you're 

1312
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,900
going to pay, you know, 
depending on where you are in 

1313
01:14:42,900 --> 01:14:46,500
the world, you pay between 10 
and say, fifty thousand dollars 

1314
01:14:46,500 --> 01:14:51,700
for a dog like that, and he 
works for eight years or even if

1315
01:14:51,700 --> 01:14:54,300
he works for three years. 
That's a great deal. 

1316
01:14:54,300 --> 01:14:57,700
You don't pay him anymore. 
He hates a few bucks worth of 

1317
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,300
raw meat a day. 
You know, the baby sleeps on the

1318
01:15:01,308 --> 01:15:04,400
kettle floor. 
You pays vet bills that are you 

1319
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,800
know a couple of thousand 
dollars a year and whatever like

1320
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:12,600
it's a great deal and so I think
I think they really liked how 

1321
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,100
you dogs. 
Yeah yeah. 

1322
01:15:14,100 --> 01:15:17,900
Totally and I love this 
comparison that you did in one 

1323
01:15:17,900 --> 01:15:22,100
of your shows at the canine 
Paradigm when you said the dog 

1324
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:27,400
is bought for ten thousand or 
fifty case and but how much 

1325
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:30,300
money are they shooting? 
Out of this window. 

1326
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:35,900
Each month, each week and this 
just doesn't make sense to save 

1327
01:15:35,900 --> 01:15:40,300
money there to have reliable 
talks that really save people's 

1328
01:15:40,300 --> 01:15:41,700
lives. 
Yeah. 

1329
01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:45,800
So, that's a funny one, right? 
So, like I spent a big chunk of 

1330
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:47,700
my career in what was called, 
the tactical assault group, 

1331
01:15:47,700 --> 01:15:51,400
right? 
Like a, their National Force of 

1332
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:53,900
Last Resort. 
It's a, mostly sort of a hostage

1333
01:15:53,900 --> 01:15:56,900
rescue type thing. 
And as a result, we're required 

1334
01:15:56,900 --> 01:15:58,800
to be lightning fast Shooters 
at. 

1335
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:00,900
Ranch like it's the sort of 
thing you're going to shoot over

1336
01:16:00,900 --> 01:16:05,700
someone's shoulder type stuff. 
So I would I would shoot, you 

1337
01:16:05,700 --> 01:16:08,800
know, nine me lamination which 
cost like a dollar around, I 

1338
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:13,900
would shoot thousands of those 
every week to maintain my skill 

1339
01:16:13,900 --> 01:16:18,100
set to be at that point where I 
was an incredible fast shot and 

1340
01:16:18,100 --> 01:16:20,300
like I don't have a natural 
Talent at that. 

1341
01:16:20,300 --> 01:16:22,100
Like it took a lot for me to 
learn to do it and a lot of 

1342
01:16:22,108 --> 01:16:25,600
practice. 
But I got exceptionally good at 

1343
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:30,500
enormous cost. 
So like this is one of the 

1344
01:16:30,508 --> 01:16:32,900
things where people balk and 
they say, our dogs going to be 

1345
01:16:32,900 --> 01:16:34,900
thirty thousand dollars. 
You like mate? 

1346
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:38,600
Like we're all sending you. 
Do you like the javelin missile 

1347
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:40,800
is really high popular at the 
moment, right? 

1348
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:43,400
Because everybody's their dads 
are like being sent to Ukraine. 

1349
01:16:43,700 --> 01:16:46,200
Not a javelin missiles worth. 
It's worth a hundred and ten 

1350
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:50,900
thousand dollars every time but 
now it kills a tank that is 

1351
01:16:50,900 --> 01:16:54,300
worth millions. 
So you know what I mean? 

1352
01:16:54,500 --> 01:17:00,600
Like so the we don't like We 
don't do the maths very well, 

1353
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:03,300
and I think it especially in the
dog space, like I think that 

1354
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:05,900
units should be. 
This is my personal opinion and 

1355
01:17:05,900 --> 01:17:09,900
I obviously I'm motivated 
because I'm a, I'm a seller of 

1356
01:17:09,900 --> 01:17:16,000
these things, not a buyer, but I
think that we should be selling 

1357
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:19,500
dogs at at a much higher cost. 
But also at a much higher 

1358
01:17:19,500 --> 01:17:24,200
standard, I think that like a 
military working dog could 

1359
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:26,300
reasonably cost a hundred 
thousand dollars, two hundred 

1360
01:17:26,300 --> 01:17:28,800
thousand dollars like they trust
me, armies can afford. 

1361
01:17:28,900 --> 01:17:33,200
Add that and and and it would 
still actually be a good deal 

1362
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,100
for them because when you look 
at the capability, the dog 

1363
01:17:37,100 --> 01:17:40,300
provides and it's a one-time 
purchase, you know, like it's a 

1364
01:17:40,500 --> 01:17:42,700
and and the dog is going to do 
things. 

1365
01:17:42,700 --> 01:17:45,600
He's not going to get PTSD and 
require a pension for the rest 

1366
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,700
of his life, you know, he's not 
going to be injured and 

1367
01:17:48,700 --> 01:17:51,600
discharged and get up and be 
paid a salary for the rest of 

1368
01:17:51,608 --> 01:17:53,400
his life. 
Like what happens in special 

1369
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:56,200
forces units is, you know, 
probably half the guys don't 

1370
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:58,900
leave on their own terms, half 
of them admit it medically. 

1371
01:17:59,100 --> 01:18:02,000
Judged and are therefore paid 
for the rest of their life. 

1372
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:06,500
So when they do the costings on 
what it costs to have a Special 

1373
01:18:06,500 --> 01:18:10,100
Forces Unit, they can't cost it 
off of like what it costs to 

1374
01:18:10,100 --> 01:18:12,900
have that many people in it. 
They have to cost that off of 

1375
01:18:12,900 --> 01:18:16,400
like paying those people who are
ever in there, at least half of 

1376
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:19,000
them for the remainder of their 
life because they're for sure 

1377
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,100
going to break them, right? 
Select yeah. 

1378
01:18:21,100 --> 01:18:25,700
Is astronomical dollars in 
running those things and then we

1379
01:18:25,700 --> 01:18:28,700
look at dogs and go like 10 
grand I'm not painting. 

1380
01:18:31,100 --> 01:18:33,900
Yeah, it's a shame. 
It's a shame and here it's even 

1381
01:18:33,900 --> 01:18:36,500
less money. 
So yeah, it's crazy. 

1382
01:18:36,500 --> 01:18:44,200
It's crazy. 
Yeah, if we find any any, I 

1383
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:48,000
really like this arguments of 
yours because it totally makes 

1384
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:52,000
sense. 
So hopefully, and the how to say

1385
01:18:52,300 --> 01:18:56,000
people in charge starts to 
understand this, because most 

1386
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,500
often these people don't have 
anything to do with Ox. 

1387
01:19:00,100 --> 01:19:03,900
And so they would just ask, why 
would the dog cost that much of 

1388
01:19:03,900 --> 01:19:08,700
money? 
But I think times are changing 

1389
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:13,600
and especially podcast like 
this, the whole social media, 

1390
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:17,800
the whole networking and getting
information, so fast all around 

1391
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:22,100
the globe. 
In people can't avoid anymore to

1392
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:27,800
to stick to the old type of yeah
attitude and mentality towards 

1393
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:29,800
these things. 
So And I hope. 

1394
01:19:30,900 --> 01:19:33,200
Yeah, yeah, let's hope it at 
least. 

1395
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:36,900
But I'm, I'm have a positive 
mindset on this. 

1396
01:19:37,100 --> 01:19:42,600
I think things will change and 
If you have a look at it, for 

1397
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,900
example, at the service dogs, or
assistants talks these dogs have

1398
01:19:45,900 --> 01:19:50,500
always had a higher price class 
then then service dogs and 

1399
01:19:50,500 --> 01:19:53,300
police military, for example, 
because obviously people 

1400
01:19:53,300 --> 01:19:58,500
understood their quite early 
that, that the impact and how to

1401
01:19:58,500 --> 01:20:01,500
say in English yet just making 
life. 

1402
01:20:01,500 --> 01:20:06,200
Better has a high cost totally 
and and but I think one of the 

1403
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,000
things that we need to frame 
that through is the the 

1404
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:13,600
capability that The dog provides
that is no longer required from 

1405
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:15,100
a human who has to draw a 
salary. 

1406
01:20:15,100 --> 01:20:17,400
So, like in service dogs. 
That's, that's very obvious. 

1407
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:21,000
That's a really easy thing. 
To articulate say, you get a 

1408
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:25,000
blind person who maybe would 
need a full-time carer that 

1409
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:28,300
would take them places. 
And, you know, that's, that's a 

1410
01:20:28,308 --> 01:20:31,200
big story that somebody has to 
have to in order to do that. 

1411
01:20:31,300 --> 01:20:34,700
Whereas you train a dog, even if
that dog cost a hundred thousand

1412
01:20:34,700 --> 01:20:38,800
dollars but leaves like you know
it stays in the service for 8, 

1413
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:41,900
10 years. 
And if it's five years, that's 

1414
01:20:41,900 --> 01:20:44,500
still going to be financially 
better off than employing a 

1415
01:20:44,500 --> 01:20:47,500
person to do that. 
So like just from a pure Bean 

1416
01:20:47,500 --> 01:20:51,900
counting numbers point of view 
like it, the maths adds up. 

1417
01:20:51,900 --> 01:20:54,000
Like even if you're totally 
unemotional you don't know 

1418
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:56,500
anything about dogs. 
If you just look at capability, 

1419
01:20:56,700 --> 01:20:59,000
their maths adds up. 
And we do that, you know, like 

1420
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:02,500
with explosive detection dogs, 
you know, it's say in the 

1421
01:21:02,500 --> 01:21:05,700
service, you know, you have a 
dog that finds an IED and 

1422
01:21:05,700 --> 01:21:07,300
prevent someone from being 
killed. 

1423
01:21:07,300 --> 01:21:09,900
So even if you want to look at 
that completely. 

1424
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:13,300
Lee Anne emotionally and just 
look at the costs associated 

1425
01:21:13,300 --> 01:21:14,800
with someone being killed in 
action. 

1426
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:20,500
The dog is the, dog is worth 
every penny and then some it'll 

1427
01:21:20,500 --> 01:21:24,300
need to prevent that from 
happening for sure. 

1428
01:21:28,100 --> 01:21:31,200
Back to the game. 
So we had two other questions 

1429
01:21:31,900 --> 01:21:36,400
that were connecting and it was 
about the positive only 

1430
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:40,100
community and the the term 
positive punishment. 

1431
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:46,300
I didn't take a note, but you 
answered the positive only 

1432
01:21:46,300 --> 01:21:50,300
Community. 
Like it's it was it's well, 

1433
01:21:50,300 --> 01:21:54,800
well, meaning. 
Well, I mean, yeah, exactly and 

1434
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:56,700
positive punishment is 
necessary. 

1435
01:21:57,100 --> 01:22:03,400
So, I think the positive only 
Community is A phenomenon that 

1436
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:06,000
is that you will find it all 
around the globe. 

1437
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:10,300
And, and as I said, it's a 
well-meaning and I think 

1438
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:15,500
especially younger trainers fall
into this. 

1439
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:19,200
I would even say trick of 
others. 

1440
01:22:19,700 --> 01:22:23,400
Yeah. 
Because it just doesn't work, 

1441
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:25,400
and it doesn't make sense. 
Somehow. 

1442
01:22:25,500 --> 01:22:27,700
Yeah. 
And not, not even, not even the 

1443
01:22:27,700 --> 01:22:31,000
title makes sense because they 
talk about positive 

1444
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:34,500
reinforcement. 
Only, of course, and I think 

1445
01:22:34,500 --> 01:22:38,100
you've already put a lot of 
effort in many of your also, 

1446
01:22:38,100 --> 01:22:43,000
your YouTube channel of your 
YouTube videos of and very on 

1447
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:48,800
emotionally trying to explain 
you how things are the the 

1448
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:53,400
quadrants of operant 
conditioning and Yeah, just 

1449
01:22:54,100 --> 01:22:59,200
share some well, I think I think
might that we have to be careful

1450
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:04,700
because I think that when like 
to use myself as an example, 

1451
01:23:04,700 --> 01:23:07,700
when I first came into the 
industry, when I first wanted to

1452
01:23:07,700 --> 01:23:10,300
learn about dog training and I 
didn't have a mentor and I 

1453
01:23:10,308 --> 01:23:13,800
didn't have really a dog that 
was suitable to train and I was 

1454
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,800
just looking at the theory. 
If you have one group of people 

1455
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:21,000
who say there's no need for 
anything other than positive 

1456
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:24,100
reinforcement, only training and
you can be highly effective. 

1457
01:23:24,500 --> 01:23:26,900
And you have another group of 
people that say, actually that's

1458
01:23:26,900 --> 01:23:30,600
not true, sometimes you will 
have to apply some level of 

1459
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:34,400
aversion to things. 
And with no evidence either way 

1460
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:37,700
just a strong opinions, I think 
that it makes sense that you 

1461
01:23:37,700 --> 01:23:39,800
fall into that positive only 
Camp. 

1462
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:42,800
Because if if you think that 
it's going to work, why would 

1463
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,200
you want to cause why would you 
want to inflict pain? 

1464
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:47,200
Why would you want to use? 
A form of aversive. 

1465
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:49,900
Excellent. 
And I think so, it's like I have

1466
01:23:49,900 --> 01:23:52,800
a lot of understanding for how 
people get to that point because

1467
01:23:52,800 --> 01:23:56,000
I was one of them. 
The issue is that positive only 

1468
01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:00,000
training, you know, and I don't 
like, positive only gets used as

1469
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,200
a bit of a weaponized term 
because we all say, oh, it's 

1470
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:03,700
impossible, you idiots, you 
can't do that. 

1471
01:24:03,700 --> 01:24:07,500
And, but like, even to just say,
like, I don't train with tools 

1472
01:24:07,500 --> 01:24:11,300
or I just go try and remain as 
free as possible, whatever, 

1473
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:13,500
whatever terminology, it doesn't
matter. 

1474
01:24:13,900 --> 01:24:18,300
I think that the issue Is 
there's limitations to that. 

1475
01:24:18,300 --> 01:24:24,000
And some people like, of course,
you should strive to give the 

1476
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:27,700
dog, the very best experience 
that is possible, but I think 

1477
01:24:27,700 --> 01:24:32,200
some people will never meet the 
limitations of it. 

1478
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:35,600
So, if you have a really nice 
dog, really nice moderate. 

1479
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:37,900
Calm pet, dog. 
And you just want to teach him a

1480
01:24:37,900 --> 01:24:41,500
few tricks or show him how to 
live into how to fit into a 

1481
01:24:41,500 --> 01:24:45,000
world that he fits quite well. 
Anyway, you can and probably 

1482
01:24:45,000 --> 01:24:47,000
should just use positive. 
Reinforcements. 

1483
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:51,600
And and so, I think many of the 
people who are very staunch, you

1484
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:55,200
know that say that nobody should
use any tools or any, you know, 

1485
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:59,400
form of compulsion and training 
have one of those dogs and so 

1486
01:24:59,700 --> 01:25:03,000
good for you to stick with it. 
And when I encounter those dogs,

1487
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:07,400
I too will train that way, but I
don't have that luxury. 

1488
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,000
You know, like I trained many 
dogs and I train dogs. 

1489
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:15,900
First of all, I often trained 
dogs that extreme in drives and 

1490
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:20,600
and you that have been selected 
for to be extreme in drive. 

1491
01:25:21,500 --> 01:25:24,400
I also deal with this lot of 
like, extremely aggressive dogs 

1492
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:26,600
that are aggressive, not through
fear. 

1493
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:28,900
I think that's one of the things
that we've sort of been lied to 

1494
01:25:28,900 --> 01:25:32,200
quite a lot, is that all, you 
know, all aggressive dogs are 

1495
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:34,500
doing so because of, like a 
fearful mind State, you can just

1496
01:25:34,500 --> 01:25:37,100
fix that fearful mind-state, 
like some dogs are power houses 

1497
01:25:37,100 --> 01:25:40,900
that think of themselves as 
something more and dangerous to 

1498
01:25:40,900 --> 01:25:44,400
be around, without those tools 
of control, and they're the best

1499
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:47,500
dogs. 
Right, like that, the good ones.

1500
01:25:49,100 --> 01:25:53,400
And so I think also, I think one
of the issues that we faced with

1501
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:57,000
many in the like the community 
that is so against the way that,

1502
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:01,700
you know, we might train is that
I think that many of them, 

1503
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:07,100
there's kind of two unfortunate 
ways that people can become that

1504
01:26:07,100 --> 01:26:09,300
way. 
And I think first is, if they 

1505
01:26:09,300 --> 01:26:13,300
can't imagine themselves using 
those tools of compulsion 

1506
01:26:13,300 --> 01:26:16,400
ethically, or fairly. 
And I know many, Trainers, who 

1507
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:18,500
are like that and you have these
conversations with them and you 

1508
01:26:18,500 --> 01:26:21,000
talk about use of an e-collar 
and they'll talk about like, oh 

1509
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:23,300
well, if the average person was 
allowed to use an e-collar, they

1510
01:26:23,300 --> 01:26:25,800
would just fry the dog. 
And what I usually say to people

1511
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:29,600
is no, that's what you would do 
because I like that's how your 

1512
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:32,600
brain works. 
And so you you don't use the 

1513
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:34,500
tools because that's what you 
would do. 

1514
01:26:35,100 --> 01:26:37,100
And so fair enough don't use 
them, you don't have to. 

1515
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:40,500
So I think that's a real thing 
because the majority of people 

1516
01:26:40,500 --> 01:26:43,500
like I have many clients who are
too afraid to use any color, 

1517
01:26:43,500 --> 01:26:46,100
they come to me because they're 
like, I hear that you can They 

1518
01:26:46,100 --> 01:26:48,800
teach me how to do this properly
because I don't want to get it 

1519
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:51,000
wrong, right? 
And so like it's not my 

1520
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:53,100
experience that people will just
hurt dogs, given the 

1521
01:26:53,100 --> 01:26:56,000
opportunity. 
In fact, the opposite and the 

1522
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:58,700
other type of people. 
And these are the ones that are 

1523
01:26:58,700 --> 01:27:01,400
often the most vocal and it's 
why I don't get involved in any 

1524
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:03,600
of the arguments anymore. 
I try to stay away from it and 

1525
01:27:03,600 --> 01:27:05,800
try to show as much compassion 
as I possibly can. 

1526
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:09,600
Is that a lot of those people 
were perhaps abused themselves. 

1527
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:14,000
And so, they can't imagine that 
punishment or tools of 

1528
01:27:14,008 --> 01:27:17,200
compulsion or pressure could be 
Be used in an ethical way 

1529
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:21,000
because it wasn't used on them. 
It was used on them in a way 

1530
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:23,800
that we would describe as abuse,
it was unnecessary suffering or 

1531
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:25,700
it was a pressure from which 
there was no escape. 

1532
01:27:25,700 --> 01:27:29,100
And so, I think that they're, 
the two types of people that 

1533
01:27:29,100 --> 01:27:34,800
there's kind of, no, there's no 
changing their opinion and I 

1534
01:27:34,808 --> 01:27:36,700
think that's fair, they can hold
their opinions. 

1535
01:27:36,700 --> 01:27:41,200
And I think that, like, I'm kind
of a bit of a Libertarian, 

1536
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:42,800
right? 
Like you do you and I'll do me 

1537
01:27:43,100 --> 01:27:45,500
and so I'm fine people. 
Would you train a dog? 

1538
01:27:45,500 --> 01:27:47,500
However, you Trying to do this, 
none of my business so long. 

1539
01:27:47,500 --> 01:27:52,700
As you know, you're not doing 
anything overtly unethical but 

1540
01:27:52,700 --> 01:27:54,700
don't tell me how I should train
dogs either. 

1541
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:57,600
And I think that's one of the 
issues is that many of the 

1542
01:27:57,608 --> 01:28:01,300
people who have these big 
feelings about the way that dogs

1543
01:28:01,300 --> 01:28:04,500
should be trained, often, 
haven't trained many dogs. 

1544
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:12,900
And, and also, I think that like
the subjective opinion about 

1545
01:28:12,900 --> 01:28:15,300
what is aversive is very 
different as well. 

1546
01:28:15,300 --> 01:28:18,600
And so, So to some people any 
form of pressure and compulsive 

1547
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:22,700
to them, compulsion to them is 
extremely aversive and so they 

1548
01:28:22,700 --> 01:28:25,200
assumed that dogs feel the same 
way and to some dogs that would 

1549
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,900
be the case, right? 
But I think to some other dogs 

1550
01:28:27,900 --> 01:28:31,300
they thrive on it and the lack 
of guidance that comes from 

1551
01:28:31,300 --> 01:28:35,000
without using those tools of 
compulsion is extremely aversive

1552
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:38,600
and so like I know in myself. 
Like that's how I am. 

1553
01:28:38,700 --> 01:28:42,200
Like I'm a dog that would be 
trained with negative 

1554
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:44,000
reinforcement. 
I don't need positive feedback. 

1555
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:45,800
I don't need, I don't need to 
be. 

1556
01:28:46,100 --> 01:28:49,100
That I'm a good boy. 
I don't need what I need is to 

1557
01:28:49,100 --> 01:28:53,400
get it right? 
And I have a strong fear or 

1558
01:28:53,400 --> 01:28:56,500
anxiety of getting it wrong. 
And so I would rather be 

1559
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:59,400
compelled into getting it right 
then left to figure out what's 

1560
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:01,800
right by myself. 
And and if I happen to get it 

1561
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:03,600
right, be paid for having done 
it. 

1562
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:06,300
You know what I mean? 
Like that to me is like quite 

1563
01:29:06,300 --> 01:29:08,700
uncomfortable. 
And I think I encountered, many 

1564
01:29:08,700 --> 01:29:11,500
dogs that are the same. 
I think that a lot of dogs. 

1565
01:29:11,700 --> 01:29:15,000
They just want the guidance and 
those tools of compulsion, those

1566
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:18,400
tools of the version They help 
them get to that. 

1567
01:29:18,500 --> 01:29:22,300
And I think that very often when
they're used correctly or well, 

1568
01:29:22,700 --> 01:29:26,200
the experience for the dog is 
actually more comfortable and 

1569
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:28,800
less aversive because of the 
clarity that comes from it. 

1570
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:33,300
And I think that we often 
Overlook or don't understand 

1571
01:29:34,100 --> 01:29:41,000
the, the aversive nature of lack
of clarity, I think that that 

1572
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:45,800
that is quite horrific thing, 
you know, to have no. 

1573
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:49,600
D what to do and be lost. 
I think that people sort of 

1574
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:52,800
underestimate however see that 
is and we do that on purpose, we

1575
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:54,500
use negative punishment that 
way, right? 

1576
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:58,800
And and I think that you know, 
to sort of tie that off to your 

1577
01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:02,100
question about positive 
punishment is that I think that 

1578
01:30:02,100 --> 01:30:06,100
positive punishment is actually 
a much Kinder thing to do in 

1579
01:30:06,100 --> 01:30:08,500
many instances, the negative 
punishment. 

1580
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:13,000
And I think that we've been lied
to by people who would say that 

1581
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:15,800
- punishment because it's hands 
its hands. 

1582
01:30:15,900 --> 01:30:18,900
Soph right? 
There's no pain involved that, 

1583
01:30:18,900 --> 01:30:23,000
it's a kinda thing to do and I 
just don't agree with that. 

1584
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:25,100
Like, I use negative punishment.
I get me wrong. 

1585
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:31,000
But negative punishment for me 
when I do it properly, is way 

1586
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:32,700
more aversive than positive 
punishment. 

1587
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:37,400
And it's, and in my opinion, to 
use negative punishment. 

1588
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:42,000
So willy-nilly, the way that 
many trainers do, like, I 

1589
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:44,900
reserve that for the most 
egregious of infractions, like a

1590
01:30:44,907 --> 01:30:48,300
dog has to really Do something 
terrible for M to use negative 

1591
01:30:48,300 --> 01:30:51,500
punishment appropriately, right,
and properly because it's the 

1592
01:30:51,500 --> 01:30:52,800
most diverse of thing you can 
do. 

1593
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:57,000
Like to be lost with no idea of 
how to move forward. 

1594
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:58,600
Like that's how to use negative 
punishment properly. 

1595
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:02,100
You know, is where the dog is 
like I have I have nothing and I

1596
01:31:02,100 --> 01:31:05,700
don't know what to do about it 
and that creates an aversion to 

1597
01:31:05,700 --> 01:31:09,500
whatever they did. 
Whereas like my dog would rather

1598
01:31:09,500 --> 01:31:11,200
me just go like hey man, don't 
do that. 

1599
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:13,400
Bang on the phone call and he's 
like yeah got it. 

1600
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:15,600
I understand that. 
As communication, I don't have 

1601
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:18,300
to Put him through some like 
horrific experience. 

1602
01:31:18,300 --> 01:31:21,300
I just can can communicate to 
him better with those tools. 

1603
01:31:21,500 --> 01:31:26,600
So I think you know, I think 
that we need more cohesion in 

1604
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:29,900
the dog world. 
We do for sure, but I also think

1605
01:31:29,900 --> 01:31:31,600
that we need to just let people 
trained dogs. 

1606
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:33,900
However, they want to train dogs
and stop getting in each other's

1607
01:31:33,900 --> 01:31:39,900
way and I think like I say, I 
have a lot of respect, there's a

1608
01:31:39,907 --> 01:31:44,100
lot of really quite talented, 
plus our or forestry or whatever

1609
01:31:44,100 --> 01:31:47,700
they call themselves trainers. 
He do some very impressive 

1610
01:31:47,700 --> 01:31:50,400
things at a very high skill set 
and they've just chosen not to 

1611
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:52,900
use the tools for whatever 
reason themselves. 

1612
01:31:53,500 --> 01:31:56,900
But when I train with them and I
observed their dogs, the dogs, 

1613
01:31:56,900 --> 01:32:02,000
don't look any less stress than 
mine, the lack of guidance that 

1614
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:04,900
they're sometimes. 
Not able to give their dog 

1615
01:32:04,900 --> 01:32:08,400
because of their unwillingness 
to use that tool create some 

1616
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:11,500
more stressful and any adverse 
of experience to the training of

1617
01:32:11,500 --> 01:32:14,700
dog than if the dog just got the
guidance that it was kind of 

1618
01:32:14,700 --> 01:32:19,100
begging for And I think that's, 
that's a, that's a big Point. 

1619
01:32:19,100 --> 01:32:24,200
Sometimes when I start talking 
about these topics, I find 

1620
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:30,800
myself seeming, like I would 
promote punishment Based 

1621
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,000
training which I really don't. 
So, as I said, in the beginning,

1622
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:39,700
in Austria, for example, we hear
we have a very strict law of 

1623
01:32:39,700 --> 01:32:42,100
Animal Welfare etcetera. 
So, we are also allowed to 

1624
01:32:42,100 --> 01:32:44,200
participate in PSA or train 
piece a. 

1625
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:51,100
But rather because of The Civil 
biting and muscle links but also

1626
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:56,500
in How We Do training. 
And I think one of the biggest 

1627
01:32:56,500 --> 01:33:02,700
mistakes is first of all, that a
punishment is, is not anything 

1628
01:33:02,700 --> 01:33:05,200
brutal or cruel that we do to 
dogs. 

1629
01:33:05,300 --> 01:33:08,700
So it can be measured. 
And I think it's a very fair 

1630
01:33:08,700 --> 01:33:13,900
information and depending on how
it's delivered, on the other 

1631
01:33:13,900 --> 01:33:19,700
hand we can Put a or gained a 
lot of damage through just threw

1632
01:33:19,700 --> 01:33:23,800
out, just in rewarding the dog 
into total in Total Insanity 

1633
01:33:23,900 --> 01:33:27,500
because they'd sooner or later 
don't understand anything. 

1634
01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:33,000
I don't know if you know this 
exercise the box with 101 tricks

1635
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:35,500
or something. 
This was decided I think better 

1636
01:33:35,500 --> 01:33:39,900
German trainer and this was just
about clicking every movement 

1637
01:33:39,900 --> 01:33:42,900
over the hook. 
And it's Madness. 

1638
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:50,700
Yeah, it creates total confusion
I think and I think there are 

1639
01:33:50,700 --> 01:33:56,900
many very handy things on how 
to, to give feedback to dog's 

1640
01:33:56,900 --> 01:33:59,600
behavior. 
And another thing that people 

1641
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:04,100
most often lie forget, is that 
and the dog to learn a decides 

1642
01:34:04,100 --> 01:34:09,000
if there is a reinforcer or a 
Punisher and not, we do so many 

1643
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:11,500
people think they're not 
punishing, but they're also, not

1644
01:34:11,500 --> 01:34:16,000
rewarding because nothing what 
they have is a reward in any, 

1645
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:19,100
any way to talk. 
So totally think I really 

1646
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:22,800
They're in. 
As I said, there isn't an issue 

1647
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:27,200
of how to train but I think and 
that's what you do. 

1648
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:34,400
And what I try to do is spread 
some more knowledge and feeling 

1649
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:37,500
for what we can use and what is 
affair? 

1650
01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:41,400
Purpose in dog training. 
Yeah. 

1651
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:45,000
And I think the issue is like a 
college prank callers. 

1652
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:48,500
Those sorts of things, they can 
have such a bad reputation. 

1653
01:34:48,500 --> 01:34:54,800
People can dislike them so much 
that they are unwilling to look 

1654
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:56,700
at how people use them 
skillfully. 

1655
01:34:56,700 --> 01:35:00,900
And and so I think I was one of 
this person. 

1656
01:35:00,900 --> 01:35:06,400
I really I avoided learning 
about it which was a mistake and

1657
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:08,600
still I can't use it. 
I'm not allowed to. 

1658
01:35:09,400 --> 01:35:16,400
And maybe I even wouldn't but I 
really understand the power of 

1659
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:19,500
it and that it works is there 
without a doubt. 

1660
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:21,900
And I think that's the important
thing we are. 

1661
01:35:21,900 --> 01:35:28,800
So I think that's just a human 
thing to get to shut down 

1662
01:35:28,900 --> 01:35:31,400
completely. 
If there is something that that 

1663
01:35:31,400 --> 01:35:36,100
we we heard of and we wouldn't 
agree 100%. 

1664
01:35:36,700 --> 01:35:41,000
That's just had a few people 
who've told me that, you know, 

1665
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:44,600
they're largely sort of Forestry
trainers and they can't even 

1666
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:47,700
tell their dog. 
No, because there's often in, 

1667
01:35:47,700 --> 01:35:49,500
actually, in every case it's 
been a Malinois. 

1668
01:35:49,900 --> 01:35:53,400
Very highly strung Malinois? 
And if they say no, they like 

1669
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:56,300
withhold, the reinforced of the 
dog, grumbles, the dog goes like

1670
01:35:56,300 --> 01:35:59,300
falls apart and they say that, 
you know, they have to just 

1671
01:35:59,300 --> 01:36:01,700
reward. 
Everything they have to find 

1672
01:36:01,700 --> 01:36:04,400
something that the dog can, 
because even say no to the dog, 

1673
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:10,100
help it falls apart and the few 
that I've heard, Many times, but

1674
01:36:10,100 --> 01:36:15,000
the few that I have convinced to
let me train their dog and use a

1675
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:21,100
prong collar in doing. 
So are amazed by, how happy 

1676
01:36:21,100 --> 01:36:24,400
their dogs are and a lot of the 
Stress and Anxiety that the dog 

1677
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:28,000
faces around training dissolves 
because I can tell the dog, how 

1678
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:30,500
to be right? 
I don't have to just keep 

1679
01:36:30,500 --> 01:36:33,400
constantly click the dog and say
yes you're on the right track 

1680
01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:36,300
even when it's not and just 
create a ton of confusion and 

1681
01:36:36,300 --> 01:36:40,500
anxiety and I don't have to use 
- punishment or withholding and 

1682
01:36:40,500 --> 01:36:42,800
communicate to the dog like 
you're wrong. 

1683
01:36:43,100 --> 01:36:46,100
What I can do is say that it 
like, hey, come over this way 

1684
01:36:46,500 --> 01:36:48,600
and when I'm shown the dog, how 
to manipulate pressure 

1685
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:51,800
correctly, it's quite palatable 
the dogs fine with it, and I can

1686
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:53,500
help the dog. 
Be right now. 

1687
01:36:53,500 --> 01:36:56,100
They do realize it's like I'm 
never going to be just left 

1688
01:36:56,100 --> 01:36:57,600
alone. 
Wonder and that's what I mean. 

1689
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:01,400
Like I think that we really it's
not the case to all dogs but to 

1690
01:37:01,400 --> 01:37:05,000
some and it like I identify 
because it certainly is the case

1691
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:09,300
to me being left wondering if 
you've done the right King is 

1692
01:37:09,300 --> 01:37:14,200
incredibly aversive to me like I
don't I would rather be smashed 

1693
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:19,400
into doing the right thing then 
be left wondering if I did and I

1694
01:37:20,100 --> 01:37:23,300
know many dogs feel the same. 
They would rather be used like 

1695
01:37:23,300 --> 01:37:26,800
hey put me where you want me, 
show me what you want and then 

1696
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:29,100
pay me with positive 
reinforcement, so that it's 100%

1697
01:37:29,100 --> 01:37:30,800
clear. 
I knew when I was wrong and now 

1698
01:37:30,800 --> 01:37:34,800
I know that I was, right? 
It just increases Clarity to the

1699
01:37:34,808 --> 01:37:38,600
dog and I think like, I say, the
people who I have convinced, To 

1700
01:37:38,608 --> 01:37:41,500
let me do that. 
Have been all converted, because

1701
01:37:41,600 --> 01:37:43,900
I think a lot of people think 
the only use of these tools of 

1702
01:37:43,907 --> 01:37:45,800
compulsion is positive 
punishment. 

1703
01:37:45,900 --> 01:37:48,500
And I think, of course, you can 
use them as positive punishment,

1704
01:37:48,500 --> 01:37:51,200
but I rarely use any positive 
punishment it, like, I don't 

1705
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:53,300
have a lot of cause to punish 
dogs. 

1706
01:37:53,300 --> 01:37:55,000
It's very rare that I find 
myself. 

1707
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:58,000
Punishing those, I mostly use 
those tools of compulsion for 

1708
01:37:58,000 --> 01:37:59,900
negative reinforcement to show 
the dog. 

1709
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:03,200
What I want you to do. 
Rather than what I don't want 

1710
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:07,300
you to do how much positive 
punishment takes place before 

1711
01:38:07,400 --> 01:38:11,100
negative reinforcement. 
Well, I mean depends on the dog 

1712
01:38:11,100 --> 01:38:12,100
and depends on what you're 
teaching. 

1713
01:38:12,100 --> 01:38:16,500
Like, but for me, like, if I'm 
going to use punishment, it's 

1714
01:38:16,500 --> 01:38:19,700
usually because of some like 
inherent drive that the dog has 

1715
01:38:19,700 --> 01:38:23,500
like a strong desire to do 
something and I don't have the 

1716
01:38:23,500 --> 01:38:25,300
capacity to teach it to do 
something else. 

1717
01:38:25,300 --> 01:38:28,900
Instead like I said, it's not 
like given the circumstances 

1718
01:38:28,900 --> 01:38:31,800
given the reinforces available 
to me. 

1719
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:34,000
The dog is always going to 
choose that undesirable thing. 

1720
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:35,700
So for me then I'm like hey 
that's it. 

1721
01:38:35,700 --> 01:38:38,400
It's this is a this is an 
opportunity for punishment. 

1722
01:38:38,800 --> 01:38:41,400
But it's rare that I do that. 
Because for the most part, I 

1723
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:45,200
want to teach them to do other 
things and yeah because I 

1724
01:38:45,208 --> 01:38:48,700
trained dogs to do. 
I'm not really a I'm not like 

1725
01:38:48,700 --> 01:38:50,900
I'm not a person that trains 
dogs not to do stuff. 

1726
01:38:50,900 --> 01:38:53,300
I'm a guy that you call when you
need a dog to do something 

1727
01:38:53,300 --> 01:38:56,100
specific. 
So I am not saying punishment is

1728
01:38:56,100 --> 01:38:58,200
wrong, or bad, or should be used
infrequently? 

1729
01:38:58,200 --> 01:39:00,100
I just don't have much cause to 
do that. 

1730
01:39:01,500 --> 01:39:06,300
So I use like a healthy dose, 
not more or less than anyone 

1731
01:39:06,300 --> 01:39:08,300
else, but like of negative 
reinforcement. 

1732
01:39:08,300 --> 01:39:11,700
So, Tools that I use is mostly 
to guide the dog as to what I 

1733
01:39:11,708 --> 01:39:15,200
want them to do and more than 
anything to help them understand

1734
01:39:15,200 --> 01:39:18,400
it rather than compel them to do
it when they don't want to. 

1735
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:21,500
Like of course, I have that 
capacity like that that is the 

1736
01:39:21,500 --> 01:39:24,000
happy side. 
Effect of having used it in a 

1737
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:26,800
learning phase is that if the 
dog doesn't want to do it then I

1738
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:28,300
can use it to compel the dog to 
do it. 

1739
01:39:28,300 --> 01:39:31,300
If it must for whatever reason 
do the thing but that's the 

1740
01:39:31,300 --> 01:39:33,600
happy side. 
Effect of the fact that the 

1741
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:36,700
reason I will udents those tools
in training is to give that 

1742
01:39:36,700 --> 01:39:39,100
Clarity to the dog as to what I 
I want. 

1743
01:39:39,700 --> 01:39:43,200
And like I said, the majority of
the dogs that I trained want 

1744
01:39:43,200 --> 01:39:45,800
that Clarity because they're 
high drive, they're super 

1745
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:49,000
motivated dogs. 
They want to learn that they've 

1746
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,900
super willing participant in the
training, they're just like, hey

1747
01:39:51,900 --> 01:39:54,200
man, help me get it right? 
Like don't leave me. 

1748
01:39:54,500 --> 01:39:58,300
Don't leave me wondering what? 
Like, show me what it is. 

1749
01:40:03,100 --> 01:40:19,500
Pee break. 
I hope you have some some more 

1750
01:40:19,500 --> 01:40:22,200
time. 
Otherwise let me know when it's 

1751
01:40:22,208 --> 01:40:24,400
not. 
Okay. 

1752
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:31,600
Doing so many different things. 
How do you organize yourself? 

1753
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:35,600
Do you have any smaller? 
If you use or do you just have? 

1754
01:40:36,300 --> 01:40:41,800
I'm a mess. 
I, I wish that I had a better 

1755
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:46,500
answer that, but I'm a mess. 
I wasn't very honest, answer 

1756
01:40:46,500 --> 01:40:47,700
them. 
Yeah. 

1757
01:40:47,700 --> 01:40:52,400
I miss a lot of emails. 
I constantly late for things. 

1758
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:56,700
I don't do things that I tell 
people, I'll do I have missed a 

1759
01:40:56,708 --> 01:40:58,700
lot of opportunities. 
I'm a mess. 

1760
01:40:59,100 --> 01:41:02,700
I just have a lot going on, and 
I probably should do less. 

1761
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:05,300
Yes, but I enjoy doing the 
things that I do. 

1762
01:41:05,300 --> 01:41:09,300
So you know, here we are. 
That's well. 

1763
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:17,600
Okay, so meanwhile, I think 
you're doing the for how long. 

1764
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:20,800
Are you doing the good? 
Doc train full-time for since 

1765
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:22,700
2013? 
Yeah. 

1766
01:41:22,700 --> 01:41:25,100
Yeah. 
Since I left the Army, and to be

1767
01:41:25,100 --> 01:41:27,500
honest looked, like, when I 
first left the Army, I really 

1768
01:41:27,500 --> 01:41:31,100
was a home dad for the first 
kind of 18 months. 

1769
01:41:31,100 --> 01:41:34,800
I was just kind of training. 
Dogs was very A very pot time, 

1770
01:41:35,700 --> 01:41:39,700
you know what I mean? 
It was more of a jobby than when

1771
01:41:39,700 --> 01:41:42,100
I really started taking it 
seriously after that once my son

1772
01:41:42,100 --> 01:41:46,700
was a little bit older so the 
good thing being an employee 

1773
01:41:46,700 --> 01:41:53,200
somewhere, no matter where is 
that, you have holidays, that 

1774
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:56,400
you have to take being 
self-employed. 

1775
01:41:56,400 --> 01:42:01,100
No one tells you to take some 
time off and do you plan free 

1776
01:42:01,100 --> 01:42:04,900
time? 
I don't. 

1777
01:42:04,900 --> 01:42:07,500
And so this is, you know, 
honesty. 

1778
01:42:07,500 --> 01:42:13,200
This is the sort of air of my 
life when no one should look to 

1779
01:42:13,200 --> 01:42:17,400
me for any God. 
Because I mean, what I do 

1780
01:42:17,400 --> 01:42:22,200
strictly is, you know, I 
suppose, I was in the Army for 

1781
01:42:22,200 --> 01:42:25,400
12 years, right? 
And and the, I loved being in 

1782
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:28,500
the Army, had I not broke my 
back, I probably would still be 

1783
01:42:28,500 --> 01:42:31,200
in the Army and, and think I was
happy. 

1784
01:42:33,200 --> 01:42:37,900
I think my life now is much much
better, but I love being in the 

1785
01:42:37,900 --> 01:42:41,400
Army and I wouldn't know what I 
could have now had I not left, 

1786
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:47,500
but as a result, I don't really 
do anything that I don't want to

1787
01:42:47,500 --> 01:42:51,100
do. 
So, I'm a bit of a like, for me,

1788
01:42:51,300 --> 01:42:56,100
I know it's such a cliche, but I
don't really work, you know? 

1789
01:42:56,100 --> 01:43:00,500
Like I do cool dog stuff and I 
enjoy doing it. 

1790
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:04,100
I'm lucky that I'm Financially 
stable. 

1791
01:43:04,100 --> 01:43:06,800
So I like, you know, I speak for
me incredible point of 

1792
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:08,600
privilege. 
When I say that, I don't do 

1793
01:43:08,600 --> 01:43:11,700
things, I don't want to do. 
But as a result at does mean 

1794
01:43:11,700 --> 01:43:15,800
that I work a ton and I kind of 
realize often like, oh shit, 

1795
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:18,000
what am I doing, right? 
Like I've overdone it. 

1796
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:21,600
I'm I'm not like close to burn 
out or anything like that, but I

1797
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:25,900
just realized that I've, I'm not
leading a very Balanced Life, 

1798
01:43:25,900 --> 01:43:27,200
very often. 
I realized that. 

1799
01:43:27,200 --> 01:43:30,800
And so I have to sort of realign
myself, pretty regularly. 

1800
01:43:30,800 --> 01:43:33,200
And and I think one of the 
things that is Tricky. 

1801
01:43:33,200 --> 01:43:39,100
For someone like me is your 
like, I do a lot. 

1802
01:43:39,100 --> 01:43:42,800
I have, you know, I do a lot of 
different stuff but the most 

1803
01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:46,400
important thing to me is being a
dad, to be honest. 

1804
01:43:46,400 --> 01:43:50,700
Like, I only get one shot at 
that to raise your kids, right? 

1805
01:43:50,700 --> 01:43:52,900
And I think I was super 
fortunate. 

1806
01:43:52,900 --> 01:43:57,200
My parents did, what I think, is
a great job with me and I, I'm 

1807
01:43:57,200 --> 01:44:02,700
trying to do the same for mine, 
so that sort of is my sort of 

1808
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:06,300
guiding priority. 
That's what stops me taking on 

1809
01:44:06,300 --> 01:44:08,400
too many things is just making 
sure that I have the 

1810
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:12,600
opportunities to, you know, do 
the right thing by my family. 

1811
01:44:12,800 --> 01:44:15,700
That's, that's, that's always 
got to be my primary motivator. 

1812
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:20,500
And if if people like, you know,
I have sometimes people sort of 

1813
01:44:20,500 --> 01:44:23,200
get angry at me for not doing 
things that they want me to do 

1814
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:25,800
and whatever. 
And it's just like, hey, like I 

1815
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:30,900
did allocate a lot of time to 
the dog training space but that 

1816
01:44:30,900 --> 01:44:32,700
can't come at the cost of time 
with my family. 

1817
01:44:32,900 --> 01:44:37,600
Emily or a destructive cost to 
my family you know like answer 

1818
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:40,800
it has to remain that they're my
number one priority all the time

1819
01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:45,500
and I take you know like I think
the issue is as well looks like 

1820
01:44:45,500 --> 01:44:51,300
way that is dog trainers. 
Like parenting is the ultimate 

1821
01:44:51,300 --> 01:44:56,200
High strikes, raising a puppy 
you know like I've seen how 

1822
01:44:56,200 --> 01:45:00,100
important that yeah genetics 
plays its role and that's done 

1823
01:45:00,700 --> 01:45:03,100
for sure. 
Like if I was A dog. 

1824
01:45:03,100 --> 01:45:05,600
I've got bad hips or definitely 
shouldn't have been bred but I 

1825
01:45:05,608 --> 01:45:09,700
did anyway. 
And so now that genetics 

1826
01:45:09,700 --> 01:45:13,000
component is taken care of, it's
all environment after this. 

1827
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:17,000
So like I take you raising my 
kids, really seriously and try 

1828
01:45:17,000 --> 01:45:20,700
to make sure that I can provide 
for them like financially as 

1829
01:45:20,700 --> 01:45:26,100
well as emotionally and so not, 
you know, having enough money 

1830
01:45:26,300 --> 01:45:29,000
for them to buy the things that 
they want at the cost of an 

1831
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:30,800
absent. 
Father, that that's really 

1832
01:45:30,800 --> 01:45:32,700
important to me. 
So like getting that balance, 

1833
01:45:32,900 --> 01:45:35,100
Try it. 
I don't know that I'm doing very

1834
01:45:35,100 --> 01:45:36,800
well at it, but I'm trying 
really hard. 

1835
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:41,000
Mmm, nice. 
Very nice. 

1836
01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:43,200
So maybe this is already as 
well. 

1837
01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:47,300
The answer to one of the other 
questions I have prepared but 

1838
01:45:47,300 --> 01:45:50,100
first, let's go to this one. 
What's one of the biggest 

1839
01:45:50,100 --> 01:45:57,400
mistakes you did in training? 
Peace mistake, like spit like 

1840
01:45:57,400 --> 01:46:03,900
individual mistake or sort of 
like by day or overarching. 

1841
01:46:05,100 --> 01:46:07,700
Maybe overarching if I 
understand it. 

1842
01:46:07,700 --> 01:46:09,700
Right. 
Yeah. 

1843
01:46:09,700 --> 01:46:11,800
Maybe. 
Maybe it was not a big mistake, 

1844
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:17,700
but maybe it had a big impact on
your your attitude or yeah. 

1845
01:46:17,700 --> 01:46:22,800
I think that I haven't always 
been as open-minded as I am now.

1846
01:46:22,800 --> 01:46:30,400
And I think that there was a 
time when I was like, right now.

1847
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:33,100
I'm pretty interested in 
everything anybody has to say. 

1848
01:46:33,108 --> 01:46:37,100
And I think even when The same 
things that I think is 

1849
01:46:37,100 --> 01:46:42,100
outrageous, at least it 
sometimes, entertains me. 

1850
01:46:43,700 --> 01:46:47,900
And it may be confirms that I 
don't want to do things, but I 

1851
01:46:47,900 --> 01:46:49,900
don't think I was always as 
open-minded as that. 

1852
01:46:49,900 --> 01:46:53,700
And I think that I used to, 
especially sort of we dealing 

1853
01:46:53,700 --> 01:46:55,800
with people who are trained 
really differently to me. 

1854
01:46:55,800 --> 01:47:01,000
I used to sort of your allocate 
myself and more rigid structure 

1855
01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:04,900
as to what kind of trainer I was
and now I don't do that. 

1856
01:47:05,100 --> 01:47:08,700
At all really like I trained 
I've tried. 

1857
01:47:08,700 --> 01:47:11,000
I've learned from so many 
different people who have, you 

1858
01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:14,000
know, so many different styles, 
most notably Bart but like I've 

1859
01:47:14,000 --> 01:47:16,200
trained with lots of different 
people and I've learned from 

1860
01:47:16,300 --> 01:47:20,000
lots of different people, I've 
done tons of online courses, you

1861
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:22,900
know, like all the big names, 
I've bought their staff, I 

1862
01:47:22,900 --> 01:47:27,800
digested, I sort of try and play
with it so I think that I'm 

1863
01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:31,700
fairly agnostic as to the way 
that I trained and how that I 

1864
01:47:31,708 --> 01:47:34,900
train. 
But I think that that has no 

1865
01:47:35,100 --> 01:47:37,900
Spin the, what the the way I've 
been in the past I think they 

1866
01:47:37,900 --> 01:47:40,800
used to be a lot more rigid and 
think that there was a right way

1867
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:45,700
or that there was, there was one
way and I think now that there's

1868
01:47:45,700 --> 01:47:48,100
there's no such thing as a right
way and a wrong way necessarily 

1869
01:47:48,100 --> 01:47:52,900
there's just varying degrees of 
success and and that scale can 

1870
01:47:52,900 --> 01:47:56,400
slide around and move depending 
on, you know, who you are with 

1871
01:47:56,400 --> 01:47:58,600
the dog, your training and the 
outcome that you want. 

1872
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:00,900
Like, I think that one of the 
things that used to sort of get 

1873
01:48:00,900 --> 01:48:04,000
me, really angry about the dog 
training, specialist people like

1874
01:48:04,500 --> 01:48:05,900
doing shit. 
Eddie training. 

1875
01:48:07,300 --> 01:48:11,000
And you know what? 
I would say really unreliable 

1876
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:12,700
training. 
But then when I realized like, 

1877
01:48:12,700 --> 01:48:14,300
they're just having fun training
the dog. 

1878
01:48:14,300 --> 01:48:18,200
So like, who cares about the 
reliability of, you know, they 

1879
01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:22,600
don't get. 
So why should I so yeah I think 

1880
01:48:22,600 --> 01:48:24,700
that's that's probably the 
biggest mistake I've had is that

1881
01:48:24,700 --> 01:48:27,500
rigidity. 
We're now I'm as Loose as it 

1882
01:48:27,500 --> 01:48:29,800
comes. 
I sort of see the value in just 

1883
01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:32,600
about everything, doesn't mean I
can't do it but I want to know 

1884
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:35,300
it so that I can draw from it 
all and, you know, What's 

1885
01:48:35,300 --> 01:48:41,100
appropriate? 
All right, so, do you pay a lot 

1886
01:48:41,100 --> 01:48:44,000
of attention to your gut feeling
in training? 

1887
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:48,500
But also when assessing others 
ways of training? 

1888
01:48:49,000 --> 01:48:55,100
Yeah, for sure. 
So I think I'm fairly analytical

1889
01:48:55,500 --> 01:49:00,300
of my own training and others 
but I try not to do that while 

1890
01:49:00,300 --> 01:49:02,500
I'm doing it. 
So like I think I'm at a point 

1891
01:49:02,500 --> 01:49:06,900
now where like, I think that dog
training is a beautiful Fusion. 

1892
01:49:07,000 --> 01:49:09,500
Barton science, right? 
Like you have to have a feel for

1893
01:49:09,500 --> 01:49:13,600
it and you have to kind of know 
the inputs and what they're 

1894
01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:17,800
likely to what the outputs that 
they're likely to result in but 

1895
01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:20,500
not overthink that right there 
in the session. 

1896
01:49:20,500 --> 01:49:24,400
I think that like sort of going 
with the flow quite a bit and 

1897
01:49:24,400 --> 01:49:28,100
and there was a time when I was 
much more analytical and I had 

1898
01:49:28,100 --> 01:49:32,800
asked the shock on and and like 
certainly like I've trained I've

1899
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:35,200
been to a couple of seven hours 
of hers, I think two or three 

1900
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:38,700
and like it's Very analytical 
training, you know, counting the

1901
01:49:38,700 --> 01:49:41,600
Reps and all of that. 
And and I've tried to do that 

1902
01:49:42,300 --> 01:49:45,900
with with some success but I 
don't enjoy it as much and I 

1903
01:49:45,900 --> 01:49:49,200
think, then that I am not as 
into the training. 

1904
01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:52,900
I become a little bit of a robot
and the dog sort of feels that 

1905
01:49:52,900 --> 01:49:55,600
and and certainly like it works.
You know, I can train a dog that

1906
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:58,700
way. 
I once I like this one puppy 

1907
01:49:58,700 --> 01:50:03,200
that I raised, I was very, I was
like a robot and and very 

1908
01:50:03,200 --> 01:50:06,600
quickly I train that dog to do 
some incredible things, but the 

1909
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:08,600
dog Never liked doing any of 
them. 

1910
01:50:09,400 --> 01:50:12,600
Like there was no power and it 
was just very transactional, you

1911
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:15,700
know, like the don't need it to 
get the reinforcer, there's no 

1912
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:18,400
no heart and soul in anything 
that dog did end up having to 

1913
01:50:18,400 --> 01:50:21,300
give the dog away because it 
just, we weren't a good fit. 

1914
01:50:21,300 --> 01:50:23,700
Like, I didn't like what I had 
done to that dog. 

1915
01:50:23,700 --> 01:50:25,600
So much it was purely, positive 
reinforcement. 

1916
01:50:25,600 --> 01:50:27,200
Wasn't like I put any pressure 
on the dog. 

1917
01:50:27,200 --> 01:50:30,100
I just lose the dog was just so 
mechanical. 

1918
01:50:30,500 --> 01:50:34,300
Okay. 
So I much prefer that sort of as

1919
01:50:34,300 --> 01:50:37,600
much as I can trying to get into
like a flow with the dog and 

1920
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:40,600
really sort of that experience 
with the dog. 

1921
01:50:40,600 --> 01:50:44,200
But then I still feel them quite
a lot of my training and so 

1922
01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:48,100
reviewing that footage and then 
being very analytical of what I 

1923
01:50:48,108 --> 01:50:52,300
did in a session rather than 
what I'm doing in a session. 

1924
01:50:53,200 --> 01:50:55,800
And I think that like I'm at a 
point where I can get away with 

1925
01:50:55,800 --> 01:50:56,800
that. 
Like there was a period where 

1926
01:50:56,800 --> 01:51:00,100
like, I don't really have much 
of a, like, natural ability with

1927
01:51:00,100 --> 01:51:02,200
dogs. 
I don't I'm not like a person 

1928
01:51:02,200 --> 01:51:04,800
who. 
Okay, I had to learn everything 

1929
01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:06,700
that I know at didn't sort of 
come into him. 

1930
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:09,300
To me. 
So there was a time I think that

1931
01:51:09,300 --> 01:51:11,800
that analytical process in 
training that I had was 

1932
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:15,100
necessary for me but I think 
that I've outgrown it a little 

1933
01:51:15,100 --> 01:51:18,300
bit and now I have just a I do 
have a feel for it and I can 

1934
01:51:18,300 --> 01:51:22,300
sort of be more in with the dog 
and not having to overanalyze 

1935
01:51:22,300 --> 01:51:25,500
things, but I think still 
there's place for that, but that

1936
01:51:25,500 --> 01:51:28,700
place is after the session in 
review of the session, not 

1937
01:51:28,700 --> 01:51:36,200
during the session, Did you did 
you attend seminars with esta in

1938
01:51:36,200 --> 01:51:40,600
Australia or yeah? 
Yeah yeah yeah Esther and Hans 

1939
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:43,900
have come here a few times. 
He actually was a judge of might

1940
01:51:43,900 --> 01:51:46,200
be H. 
Nice. 

1941
01:51:48,500 --> 01:51:51,000
Yeah he's also been on the show.
I think they're both great 

1942
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:56,600
people and a lot of things to 
learn from them for sure. 

1943
01:51:56,600 --> 01:52:00,800
But as you say it is not 
everything that we can take or 

1944
01:52:00,800 --> 01:52:04,900
want to With us. 
Yeah, they're like what I 

1945
01:52:04,907 --> 01:52:10,500
noticed of her training is like 
just very analytical and which I

1946
01:52:10,508 --> 01:52:14,300
mean totally makes sense, right?
And and like I said, I employed 

1947
01:52:14,300 --> 01:52:17,000
it for a long time and it was 
important for me. 

1948
01:52:17,300 --> 01:52:21,000
But what I realized is like, 
I'm, it was a necessary step in 

1949
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:23,300
training for me to be able to 
train the way that I do now. 

1950
01:52:24,100 --> 01:52:28,100
But now I prefer to analyze, 
after, not during like, I was 

1951
01:52:28,100 --> 01:52:31,300
sort of want to go with the flow
during maybe, I'm not as good. 

1952
01:52:31,400 --> 01:52:32,900
Good. 
But I enjoy it more and I think 

1953
01:52:32,900 --> 01:52:35,200
the dog enjoys it more. 
Yeah. 

1954
01:52:35,400 --> 01:52:36,500
I feel you. 
I feel you. 

1955
01:52:36,600 --> 01:52:44,000
Yeah. 
So, maybe that was one of them, 

1956
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:47,000
but maybe not. 
So, what's the worst advice 

1957
01:52:47,000 --> 01:52:53,200
you've ever received? 
Gosh. 

1958
01:52:57,500 --> 01:53:02,300
That's a great question. 
In dog training. 

1959
01:53:03,100 --> 01:53:08,000
Well, General general in 
general, it's not about not 

1960
01:53:08,000 --> 01:53:11,400
training. 
I think the worst advice I ever 

1961
01:53:11,407 --> 01:53:16,200
had was sort of in dog training 
and in life. 

1962
01:53:16,200 --> 01:53:20,500
I think really revolved around 
not being open-minded. 

1963
01:53:20,500 --> 01:53:25,500
I think that the idea that being
closed off and that nobody has 

1964
01:53:25,500 --> 01:53:27,400
like that, not everybody has 
something to offer. 

1965
01:53:27,400 --> 01:53:31,700
And there was a period where 
like I was, you know, I just 

1966
01:53:31,700 --> 01:53:35,900
took the, I just took the, the 
word of others that other people

1967
01:53:35,900 --> 01:53:38,600
were wrong. 
And maybe, you know, there was a

1968
01:53:38,600 --> 01:53:42,900
period. 
Of time where I even like passed

1969
01:53:42,900 --> 01:53:46,000
on that, you know, like are 
there no good because I was told

1970
01:53:46,000 --> 01:53:50,700
so yeah, yeah, and I think 
that's probably the worst advice

1971
01:53:50,700 --> 01:53:55,000
I've ever gotten in regards to 
like, not just dog training, but

1972
01:53:55,000 --> 01:53:58,300
life in general. 
I think that, I think that if 

1973
01:53:58,300 --> 01:54:00,600
someone wants to tell me 
something about someone else, 

1974
01:54:00,600 --> 01:54:05,100
that's interesting information 
and I'll I'll store that and and

1975
01:54:05,100 --> 01:54:12,100
maybe, you know, you know, Look 
at that person with that in mind

1976
01:54:12,400 --> 01:54:14,500
but I try really hard. 
Not to then. 

1977
01:54:14,600 --> 01:54:17,400
Let other people's 
interpretation of somebody else 

1978
01:54:17,400 --> 01:54:20,800
influence mind too much, or 
certainly letting somebody 

1979
01:54:20,800 --> 01:54:23,800
else's opinion, create my 
opinion. 

1980
01:54:23,800 --> 01:54:28,700
I really want to sort of develop
my own opinion and maybe I come 

1981
01:54:28,700 --> 01:54:30,900
to the same conclusion as them 
and maybe not, you know, Justin 

1982
01:54:30,900 --> 01:54:33,600
Hands-On, you know, like how it 
all comes to be, but I think 

1983
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:37,100
that's the worst advice. 
I've gotten is like I've got the

1984
01:54:37,100 --> 01:54:38,800
answers. 
Don't look anywhere else. 

1985
01:54:38,900 --> 01:54:40,600
I think that's the worst advice 
I've ever gotten. 

1986
01:54:40,600 --> 01:54:41,300
Yeah. 
And that's right. 

1987
01:54:41,300 --> 01:54:45,500
Like, I encourage everybody to 
have students of my own and like

1988
01:54:45,500 --> 01:54:47,700
I say I encourage them to look 
everywhere. 

1989
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:52,700
And and like I say, even if it's
even if it's to go and find out 

1990
01:54:52,700 --> 01:54:55,400
what you don't like that, 
there's value in, finding out 

1991
01:54:55,400 --> 01:54:58,600
what you don't like. 
Sure, exactly. 

1992
01:54:59,300 --> 01:55:03,700
And I think that well, I've 
received the same advice is or 

1993
01:55:03,700 --> 01:55:06,600
similar devices especially from 
people. 

1994
01:55:09,100 --> 01:55:13,200
Looking at it. 
Retrospective is this English? 

1995
01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:19,600
Yeah, that they were even more 
insecure than I was back then. 

1996
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:22,700
Yeah. 
So they didn't want me to see 

1997
01:55:22,700 --> 01:55:27,700
something else where I might 
realize that oops I could learn 

1998
01:55:27,700 --> 01:55:32,500
something over there. 
So they just tried before, I did

1999
01:55:32,500 --> 01:55:36,300
it to say it's not worth it, 
they're not doing a good job. 

2000
01:55:36,300 --> 01:55:39,800
So stick to me. 
Charlie ha. 

2001
01:55:40,500 --> 01:55:42,600
That's it. 
That's probably like for me 

2002
01:55:43,300 --> 01:55:45,900
that's a big red flag. 
Yeah. 

2003
01:55:46,400 --> 01:55:52,000
And yeah, like yeah, I know 
we're sort of talking personal 

2004
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:56,100
stuff. 
So back for me, I don't do well 

2005
01:55:56,100 --> 01:56:01,000
in ultimatums if it when 
somebody says it's me or them, 

2006
01:56:01,100 --> 01:56:05,200
it's always them like a because 
I think that anybody who makes 

2007
01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:07,800
you choose over, something like 
that, you're never going to be 

2008
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:12,300
the choice. 
Because you wouldn't never put 

2009
01:56:12,300 --> 01:56:13,600
me in. 
Like if you were the right 

2010
01:56:13,600 --> 01:56:16,300
choice, you would never give me 
those options and like I feel 

2011
01:56:16,300 --> 01:56:19,200
really strongly about that. 
That's a good one. 

2012
01:56:21,900 --> 01:56:27,900
If you could pet, what advice 
would you give to your 20 year 

2013
01:56:27,900 --> 01:56:32,400
old self look after your body 
better? 

2014
01:56:32,500 --> 01:56:38,700
That's definitely something that
I was to, be totally honest. 

2015
01:56:38,700 --> 01:56:40,100
Mate. 
I never thought I'd live this 

2016
01:56:40,100 --> 01:56:45,300
long. 
So it's very much in the candle 

2017
01:56:45,300 --> 01:56:47,700
at both ends kind of guy, 
especially when I was in the 

2018
01:56:47,700 --> 01:56:49,800
Army. 
Like I did so many things, where

2019
01:56:49,800 --> 01:56:52,300
afterwards I was like, oh wow. 
Still alive. 

2020
01:56:52,300 --> 01:56:55,500
This is ridiculous. 
I've heard this so often from 

2021
01:56:55,500 --> 01:56:58,800
SF, guys. 
Yeah, like II. 

2022
01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:01,000
Never thought I'd make it past 
35. 

2023
01:57:01,000 --> 01:57:04,900
There's no, I'd never thought 
that that to me was a ridiculous

2024
01:57:04,900 --> 01:57:06,900
proposition that I would live 
that long. 

2025
01:57:08,100 --> 01:57:11,200
And, and here we are at 39. 
Not that I'm old. 

2026
01:57:11,200 --> 01:57:13,900
But yeah, if I could give advice
to my 20 year old self, it would

2027
01:57:13,900 --> 01:57:17,400
be like, hey you stuck in this 
body for a long time. 

2028
01:57:17,400 --> 01:57:21,500
Look, take better care of it. 
Stop injuring it so much because

2029
01:57:21,500 --> 01:57:25,400
you You can he gonna be in bad 
shape by the time you're 40, 

2030
01:57:27,700 --> 01:57:34,300
when I, when I left the Army, I 
needed to have my back fused. 

2031
01:57:34,300 --> 01:57:35,900
I meant to have like a spinal 
fusion. 

2032
01:57:36,700 --> 01:57:40,300
I need both my hips replaced. 
I need my knee replaced, and I 

2033
01:57:40,300 --> 01:57:46,600
need my big toe on my left foot 
fused and so, I chose none of 

2034
01:57:46,600 --> 01:57:52,000
it. 
I chose to get none and so It's 

2035
01:57:52,000 --> 01:57:53,800
kind of inevitable, all of. 
It's probably going to have to 

2036
01:57:53,800 --> 01:57:55,600
happen. 
I need both my hip replaced, 

2037
01:57:55,700 --> 01:58:01,800
I'll have to have my back fused 
at some point, but I'm just sort

2038
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:07,400
of all those things don't really
last, you know, like they, it's 

2039
01:58:07,400 --> 01:58:09,900
not ideal to be getting those 
things in your 30s. 

2040
01:58:09,900 --> 01:58:13,000
So I'm trying to wait as long as
I possibly can to the point 

2041
01:58:13,000 --> 01:58:14,200
where I can't put up with it 
anymore. 

2042
01:58:14,200 --> 01:58:16,700
But actually had I realized I 
was going to be this position. 

2043
01:58:16,700 --> 01:58:18,500
I definitely would have 
stretched more. 

2044
01:58:21,300 --> 01:58:24,700
Yeah. 
So you'd rather wait for some 

2045
01:58:25,100 --> 01:58:29,800
some better engineering and 
yeah, becoming how human heart 

2046
01:58:29,800 --> 01:58:32,000
of robot. 
Yeah, exactly. 

2047
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:35,200
Well actually, right. 
So when I first broke my back in

2048
01:58:35,200 --> 01:58:36,600
a winter, a few different 
surgeons. 

2049
01:58:36,600 --> 01:58:40,300
The one that I had the most 
faith in actually said, like, 

2050
01:58:40,400 --> 01:58:46,000
don't don't get anything. 
He said, you said I can't make 

2051
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:51,600
you like better than you are. 
You'll deteriorate it. 

2052
01:58:51,700 --> 01:58:53,500
Get worse. 
You'll eventually need some sort

2053
01:58:53,500 --> 01:58:56,800
of surgery but the hope is that 
by then there's something better

2054
01:58:56,800 --> 01:59:00,200
than I can offer you now. 
That's kind of what I'm holding 

2055
01:59:00,200 --> 01:59:07,900
out Holding Out for So, apart 
from being alive, what are you 

2056
01:59:07,900 --> 01:59:15,000
most proud of? 
That's good question. 

2057
01:59:16,300 --> 01:59:19,900
I think my little boy, rip, is 
7. 

2058
01:59:20,300 --> 01:59:24,700
I've got one rip 7 axles. 
Just turned one and he's a 

2059
01:59:24,700 --> 01:59:26,700
school boys. 
Yeah, two boys. 

2060
01:59:26,700 --> 01:59:29,400
Yeah. 
And he's a really sweet kid. 

2061
01:59:30,200 --> 01:59:39,400
He, he's really nice to people. 
He's very kind, he, he, he's 

2062
01:59:39,400 --> 01:59:40,500
not. 
The smartest kid. 

2063
01:59:40,500 --> 01:59:43,800
He's not the most athletic kid 
but he's very compassionate and 

2064
01:59:43,800 --> 01:59:50,700
he is, he's very thoughtful and 
I'm proud of that. 

2065
01:59:51,200 --> 01:59:55,300
Even if it is just I contribute 
like, even if my my raising and 

2066
01:59:55,300 --> 01:59:58,300
training has nothing to do with 
that, even if it is just the 50%

2067
01:59:58,300 --> 02:00:01,500
of the genetics, I contributed 
to him and that I'm still proud 

2068
02:00:01,500 --> 02:00:05,600
of that. 
But yeah, I think that that, 

2069
02:00:05,600 --> 02:00:08,400
like I said, that to me, is a 
really important thing when I 

2070
02:00:08,407 --> 02:00:15,500
was I was I was part of a 
recovery mission in 2006 where 

2071
02:00:15,500 --> 02:00:19,700
I'm very short notice had to go 
on a one-way trip to East Timor.

2072
02:00:19,700 --> 02:00:24,400
So like I was eating breakfast. 
One day in the in the mess was 

2073
02:00:24,400 --> 02:00:26,500
like a scene from a movie, The 
Cook comes running out of the 

2074
02:00:26,500 --> 02:00:28,700
mess and says all the Alpha 
Company guys have to run down to

2075
02:00:28,700 --> 02:00:30,100
the Graz and we all thought we 
were in trouble. 

2076
02:00:30,400 --> 02:00:32,300
So we go walking down there 
because we're thinking we're 

2077
02:00:32,308 --> 02:00:34,800
going to get in trouble. 
And what had happened was the UN

2078
02:00:34,800 --> 02:00:38,300
compound in East Timor had been 
attacked by. 

2079
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:40,600
It was like a political 
Situation there. 

2080
02:00:41,100 --> 02:00:45,400
But anyway, so it was like lots 
and Sirens to the airport onto a

2081
02:00:45,400 --> 02:00:49,100
private jet flew to Darwin. 
Straight off that jet onto a 

2082
02:00:49,100 --> 02:00:52,900
Blackhawk and it was a one-way 
trip to East Timor says only 

2083
02:00:52,900 --> 02:00:56,500
enough fuel to get there. 
There's no coming home to go and

2084
02:00:56,600 --> 02:01:00,500
secure this un compound because 
I would have been killed there. 

2085
02:01:01,000 --> 02:01:06,700
And on that flight, I I was 
looking around, I realized like,

2086
02:01:06,700 --> 02:01:08,500
I was super excited. 
I was like, this is amazing. 

2087
02:01:08,500 --> 02:01:10,900
Like, I'm gonna like Bang it in.
I'd only been home from 

2088
02:01:10,900 --> 02:01:13,100
Afghanistan for like six weeks. 
I was like, this is this is 

2089
02:01:13,100 --> 02:01:14,400
great. 
I'm having the best time ever. 

2090
02:01:14,900 --> 02:01:17,100
But then on the flight, in the 
helicopter, I looked around. 

2091
02:01:17,100 --> 02:01:19,100
And there were a bunch of guys 
like you had kids in that 

2092
02:01:19,100 --> 02:01:21,300
helicopter and like I hadn't 
even told my girlfriend, who's 

2093
02:01:21,300 --> 02:01:22,900
like now my wife. 
I don't even told her that I'm 

2094
02:01:22,907 --> 02:01:25,500
not coming home that day. 
I was like, who's so exciting. 

2095
02:01:25,600 --> 02:01:29,500
She's gonna see it on the news. 
And I remember looking around in

2096
02:01:29,500 --> 02:01:32,500
that helicopter and thinking 
what happens to these guys kids,

2097
02:01:32,500 --> 02:01:35,000
who don't know that they're not 
coming home. 

2098
02:01:36,300 --> 02:01:39,000
And so I kind of decided that 
day I was like, oh, I can't have

2099
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:42,300
kids while I'm Ami like I can't 
I can't do that and I had 

2100
02:01:42,300 --> 02:01:44,800
planned to stay in the Army, my 
whole life, I plan on not 

2101
02:01:44,800 --> 02:01:48,300
getting out and so that just was
off the table for me. 

2102
02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:53,200
And then when I got injured and 
decided I was I was going to 

2103
02:01:53,200 --> 02:01:56,000
leave when I ultimately sort of 
realize like I'm gonna leave 

2104
02:01:56,000 --> 02:01:57,500
like we decided to have kids in 
it. 

2105
02:01:57,500 --> 02:02:00,500
Like correlate it so that rip 
was born and I was out of the 

2106
02:02:00,500 --> 02:02:05,200
army two weeks later and so like
that was a big deal for me. 

2107
02:02:05,200 --> 02:02:08,700
So like I say like I take being 
a parent like pretty seriously. 

2108
02:02:09,700 --> 02:02:11,200
It's a, it's a super important 
thing. 

2109
02:02:11,200 --> 02:02:14,500
And like I said, I think, as a 
person who's raised plenty of 

2110
02:02:14,508 --> 02:02:20,700
puppies, I know that like it's 
a, it's like, a way higher 

2111
02:02:20,700 --> 02:02:27,800
Stakes version of that. 
So I have this ahead of myself. 

2112
02:02:27,800 --> 02:02:32,500
So, we'll see how how I can deal
with human lives. 

2113
02:02:36,400 --> 02:02:40,500
So mastering so many things, how
do you reward yourself? 

2114
02:02:41,800 --> 02:02:47,400
Um, Let's go question. 
I'm a bit like a dog. 

2115
02:02:47,400 --> 02:02:49,900
I reward myself with food but 
you're probably shouldn't do. 

2116
02:02:54,100 --> 02:02:56,900
Yeah, I don't know. 
I find most of the things I do 

2117
02:02:56,900 --> 02:02:59,900
like, I sort of said, like I 
find it fairly intrinsically 

2118
02:02:59,900 --> 02:03:02,200
rewarding, right? 
So like, I don't necessarily 

2119
02:03:02,200 --> 02:03:08,100
have like, I don't have a vice 
that I reward myself with, you 

2120
02:03:08,100 --> 02:03:13,300
know, I sort of like I tried to 
lead as balanced. 

2121
02:03:13,600 --> 02:03:18,700
If it's possible. 
And so we're not really holiday 

2122
02:03:18,800 --> 02:03:21,500
people, we don't really go away,
we're not great Travelers. 

2123
02:03:21,900 --> 02:03:26,500
So we're, you know, we just try 
and lead a pretty balanced 

2124
02:03:26,500 --> 02:03:30,700
existence as it is, but for sure
I eat too much. 

2125
02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:37,700
That's, that's about as, as 
rewarding myself as against, 

2126
02:03:38,400 --> 02:03:40,900
yeah, nice. 
Which I should learn not to do, 

2127
02:03:40,900 --> 02:03:45,700
but that's that's who I am. 
We can't be perfect. 

2128
02:03:45,800 --> 02:03:47,200
I guess exactly. 
Yeah. 

2129
02:03:49,100 --> 02:03:54,300
So now I'm curious on this one. 
Did you have an aha moment 

2130
02:03:54,300 --> 02:04:02,600
recently a lightbulb moment? 
I did actually, and it's left me

2131
02:04:02,600 --> 02:04:08,400
in a bit of a pickle. 
Like, earlier in the year, I had

2132
02:04:08,400 --> 02:04:10,900
kind of a low moan. 
I got covid in like February 

2133
02:04:10,900 --> 02:04:12,500
March something like that. 
Okay. 

2134
02:04:12,500 --> 02:04:17,300
And it hit me really bad. 
Really hot and annoyingly. 

2135
02:04:17,800 --> 02:04:23,000
I tested positive like really 
early so before I had any 

2136
02:04:23,000 --> 02:04:25,900
symptoms or anything because my 
kid had it and so I was like oh 

2137
02:04:25,907 --> 02:04:27,500
he's got it. 
I'm definitely going to get it 

2138
02:04:27,500 --> 02:04:30,300
and I test it and I had it. 
So like I was in isolation for 

2139
02:04:31,100 --> 02:04:34,800
bit over two weeks because it 
took like I had kind of a long 

2140
02:04:34,800 --> 02:04:37,000
version of code in the rules, in
Australia was, you know, allowed

2141
02:04:37,000 --> 02:04:40,400
to come out of isolation until 
you're clear of all symptoms. 

2142
02:04:40,800 --> 02:04:43,000
And so because I was in 
isolation for like a week 

2143
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:46,200
knowing that I I had it before I
got any symptoms and then had 

2144
02:04:46,200 --> 02:04:49,100
sort of drawn out symptoms so 
it's not that I had an 

2145
02:04:49,100 --> 02:04:54,000
especially bad version of it but
it really hit me and I didn't do

2146
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:56,700
well with being isolated. 
Like I'm a very social person. 

2147
02:04:56,700 --> 02:05:00,800
I'm out of light and being 
locked in the house just like my

2148
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:02,600
dog. 
Also had two broken legs at the 

2149
02:05:02,600 --> 02:05:04,700
time so it was like it was a 
tough. 

2150
02:05:04,700 --> 02:05:07,100
It was a it was a it was a rough
time. 

2151
02:05:07,400 --> 02:05:09,400
Anyway, I got really over the 
dog world. 

2152
02:05:09,400 --> 02:05:12,300
I don't know what it was but I 
tried to quit. 

2153
02:05:12,300 --> 02:05:16,100
I tried to quit everything and I
Okay, well I'll talk to Glenn 

2154
02:05:16,100 --> 02:05:18,600
and I was like, my I'm done. 
I'm quitting this podcast. 

2155
02:05:19,500 --> 02:05:22,000
I'm out. 
I don't know what I'm going to 

2156
02:05:22,000 --> 02:05:26,900
do, but I've not done this and 
he he was like, no, you're not 

2157
02:05:26,900 --> 02:05:30,900
make this is like no, you're 
not. 

2158
02:05:30,900 --> 02:05:34,600
And I was like, fine, I'll put 
up with a little bit longer and 

2159
02:05:34,600 --> 02:05:38,200
so I'd been sort of this year 
sort of a little bit. 

2160
02:05:38,200 --> 02:05:40,500
Like I don't know, the future 
has for me. 

2161
02:05:40,500 --> 02:05:42,800
It's like I don't know what I'm 
going to do and like I said, I 

2162
02:05:42,808 --> 02:05:45,300
don't do anything. 
I don't Don't want to do like so

2163
02:05:45,500 --> 02:05:48,400
it's kind of like I do love this
but I don't know that this is 

2164
02:05:48,400 --> 02:05:52,100
what I want to keep doing. 
I had a really sort of bad bout 

2165
02:05:52,100 --> 02:05:56,200
of sort of imposter syndrome 
where like I wasn't traveling 

2166
02:05:56,500 --> 02:05:59,100
and I wasn't teaching and I was 
watching that happening with 

2167
02:05:59,100 --> 02:06:02,400
other people and I sort of, I 
got it in my head that I was 

2168
02:06:02,400 --> 02:06:05,400
like, who am I to do this? 
Who am I to think that I have 

2169
02:06:05,400 --> 02:06:07,900
knowledge to pass on, right? 
And I was watching people 

2170
02:06:07,900 --> 02:06:11,100
competing and doing really well 
and a lot of the people who I 

2171
02:06:11,100 --> 02:06:16,100
had been coaching and mentoring,
And getting into PSA started you

2172
02:06:16,108 --> 02:06:20,400
know getting more titles than me
and and sort of overtaking me in

2173
02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:24,100
the sport because I had no 
opportunity to continue and it 

2174
02:06:24,100 --> 02:06:27,600
really hit me and I was really 
concerned about whether like 

2175
02:06:27,600 --> 02:06:30,200
what I was going to do and I got
this job. 

2176
02:06:30,200 --> 02:06:32,000
I'm helping a friend. 
So like I'm the creative 

2177
02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:33,900
director of a sales and 
marketing agency. 

2178
02:06:33,900 --> 02:06:36,300
I make a just make social media 
content, right? 

2179
02:06:36,300 --> 02:06:41,300
Like I don't know how I put it. 
I just make YouTube videos but I

2180
02:06:41,300 --> 02:06:43,400
was thinking maybe I'm going to 
do this anyway. 

2181
02:06:43,400 --> 02:06:48,200
So My aha moment was, I was 
obligated to go, it's me cat 

2182
02:06:48,200 --> 02:06:50,900
that ycp conference. 
And so I had to do it. 

2183
02:06:50,900 --> 02:06:53,600
And, and to be honest, I 
actually was thinking like, you 

2184
02:06:53,600 --> 02:06:54,600
know, I don't want to travel it 
on. 

2185
02:06:54,600 --> 02:06:56,300
Be away from my family. 
I'm not sure I want to do this, 

2186
02:06:56,800 --> 02:07:00,200
but the moment I got I did a 
seminar in Chicago and I did a 

2187
02:07:00,200 --> 02:07:03,100
like a five-day school there as 
well. 

2188
02:07:03,100 --> 02:07:06,700
And then went down to the 
conference and within before 

2189
02:07:06,800 --> 02:07:11,000
lunchtime of the first day out 
of seven hours like no, this is,

2190
02:07:11,300 --> 02:07:15,300
this is what I do over. 
Is this is what makes me happy 

2191
02:07:15,308 --> 02:07:18,700
and it was a like, it was that 
aha moment where I was like on, 

2192
02:07:18,700 --> 02:07:24,000
this is, this is who I am. 
This is what I do. 

2193
02:07:24,000 --> 02:07:27,700
I do. 
I do have value to add. 

2194
02:07:27,700 --> 02:07:31,500
I and there were people at that 
seminar that like, were really 

2195
02:07:31,500 --> 02:07:35,200
high-end trainers with really 
highly trained dogs. 

2196
02:07:35,200 --> 02:07:38,400
That were interested in my 
advice on how to fix things that

2197
02:07:38,400 --> 02:07:42,100
you know is going to get them an
extra half a point, right? 

2198
02:07:42,100 --> 02:07:46,300
And And two and dogs trained 
better than mine, you know, 

2199
02:07:46,300 --> 02:07:49,600
like, much better than mine. 
But I was able to problem-solve 

2200
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:52,200
with them and probably recover 
that half point for them. 

2201
02:07:52,400 --> 02:07:56,500
And so, I was that for me, was a
bit of a like, ya know. 

2202
02:07:56,500 --> 02:08:00,400
You do love this. 
You are sufficiently good at it 

2203
02:08:00,600 --> 02:08:02,400
and you do love it. 
And this is what you're going to

2204
02:08:02,400 --> 02:08:05,100
keep doing. 
So that's that's my aha moment 

2205
02:08:05,100 --> 02:08:07,100
recently. 
Now, the problem is kind of 

2206
02:08:07,100 --> 02:08:11,200
figuring out what that looks 
like going forward and and sort 

2207
02:08:11,200 --> 02:08:15,000
of finding what that Life 
balance looks like, but as I 

2208
02:08:15,008 --> 02:08:16,400
said, I don't do things. 
I don't want to do. 

2209
02:08:16,400 --> 02:08:19,300
So it's it was a good thing to 
understand. 

2210
02:08:19,300 --> 02:08:23,800
But now it's left me with a 
pickle of a like, how do I do? 

2211
02:08:23,800 --> 02:08:25,100
I clearing. 
Yeah. 

2212
02:08:25,100 --> 02:08:27,000
Yeah, yeah. 
What what does that look like 

2213
02:08:27,000 --> 02:08:30,300
going forward? 
But I'll figure that out. 

2214
02:08:30,900 --> 02:08:35,300
But to, to share some of my 
thoughts about what you said is 

2215
02:08:36,500 --> 02:08:40,400
having having students or people
who you work with. 

2216
02:08:41,300 --> 02:08:46,400
And prepare them and see how 
they achieve more than you did 

2217
02:08:46,500 --> 02:08:50,000
for or as I see the people that 
I trained to achieve more than I

2218
02:08:50,000 --> 02:08:53,300
did. 
Doesn't it give you a good 

2219
02:08:53,300 --> 02:08:58,200
feeling Turtles? 
And this was one, one, one of 

2220
02:08:58,200 --> 02:09:04,100
the maybe best things I heard 
from one of my first trainers 

2221
02:09:04,200 --> 02:09:06,700
and she wasn't competitive at 
all. 

2222
02:09:07,400 --> 02:09:12,700
I think also she she Me is this 
English? 

2223
02:09:12,700 --> 02:09:17,300
She has hindered me on doing 
sport event with my dog back 

2224
02:09:17,300 --> 02:09:19,500
then. 
But on the other hand, she told 

2225
02:09:19,500 --> 02:09:24,700
me her biggest goal is to make 
us better than she has ever been

2226
02:09:25,300 --> 02:09:29,600
or to make us achieve more than 
she has ever achieved. 

2227
02:09:29,800 --> 02:09:34,100
And I thought this is very 
inspiring. 

2228
02:09:34,300 --> 02:09:40,700
And so, when I had some of my 
teams who achieve tests for 

2229
02:09:41,500 --> 02:09:46,900
Mission Readiness test for 
Rubble searches abroad after 

2230
02:09:47,300 --> 02:09:50,000
earthquakes or tsunamis or 
whatever things. 

2231
02:09:50,000 --> 02:09:53,800
I never did. 
I was, I was really proud that I

2232
02:09:53,800 --> 02:09:57,500
could get them there. 
So I thought that a nice thing 

2233
02:09:57,500 --> 02:10:05,300
is of the thing for sure. 
And, and I feel the same, but I 

2234
02:10:05,300 --> 02:10:10,600
would be lying if I also said 
that it like it didn't impact me

2235
02:10:10,600 --> 02:10:15,000
into Thinking you know you 
realize these people are 

2236
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:18,200
achieving more than I've 
achieved and and that's great 

2237
02:10:18,200 --> 02:10:22,200
I'm super happy for them like 
I'm absolutely yeah that's a 

2238
02:10:22,200 --> 02:10:25,700
wonderful that that's happening 
for them but for a short period 

2239
02:10:25,700 --> 02:10:29,500
there it affected me where I was
like but so who am I to continue

2240
02:10:29,500 --> 02:10:32,500
to pass on this information? 
And what I realize is like, 

2241
02:10:32,500 --> 02:10:34,500
first of all, there's still 
places I can help them. 

2242
02:10:34,700 --> 02:10:38,300
But there's other people who 
could be brought to that same 

2243
02:10:38,300 --> 02:10:44,000
level you do to me. 
So like it it was a weird. 

2244
02:10:44,600 --> 02:10:46,900
It was a weird way to feel but I
definitely felt it, you know, 

2245
02:10:46,900 --> 02:10:49,000
like it. 
I understand. 

2246
02:10:49,400 --> 02:10:51,600
Yeah, yeah. 
And I think really what it was 

2247
02:10:51,600 --> 02:10:54,000
was just isolation. 
Like I think that it was a 

2248
02:10:54,000 --> 02:10:56,000
period of being away from it and
they do. 

2249
02:10:56,000 --> 02:11:02,100
I I forgot how much I love it. 
Yeah and and I had let some of 

2250
02:11:02,100 --> 02:11:08,200
the negativity sort of overtake 
me a little bit and yo I had I'd

2251
02:11:08,200 --> 02:11:12,000
not hadn't like in you know in 
had Enough not had enough 

2252
02:11:12,000 --> 02:11:15,700
positive reinforcement from 
doing it that this sort of 

2253
02:11:15,700 --> 02:11:19,400
challenge had seemed too great, 
but then when I did it I was 

2254
02:11:19,400 --> 02:11:21,800
like, oh no, it's worth any 
obstacle. 

2255
02:11:21,800 --> 02:11:25,200
Like I forgot I forgot that it's
worth any obstacle to keep doing

2256
02:11:25,200 --> 02:11:32,400
this talking about others who 
you trained with or who trained 

2257
02:11:32,400 --> 02:11:35,500
with you, for achieving their 
goals. 

2258
02:11:36,500 --> 02:11:41,000
Is there someone who who's out 
there, who you haven't yet met, 

2259
02:11:41,000 --> 02:11:46,300
but who you would really like to
train with mmm or meet again to 

2260
02:11:46,300 --> 02:11:50,200
train with all that? 
So many there's so many like if 

2261
02:11:50,200 --> 02:11:57,700
I I think that if I never needed
to work again and I had endless 

2262
02:11:57,700 --> 02:12:01,600
money, all I would do is travel 
around training with people. 

2263
02:12:01,700 --> 02:12:05,900
Let's all I would do. 
There's so many people who I've 

2264
02:12:05,900 --> 02:12:08,500
trained. 
With that, you know, I'm super 

2265
02:12:08,500 --> 02:12:13,000
fortunate that, you know, often 
when I would do seminars, for 

2266
02:12:13,000 --> 02:12:15,500
example, like, I would do one 
like, in the state's, I travel 

2267
02:12:15,500 --> 02:12:17,800
to America and I would do two at
a time. 

2268
02:12:17,800 --> 02:12:21,200
Usually one, one city, one 
weekend, the next. 

2269
02:12:21,200 --> 02:12:24,600
And so it left me like a sort of
three-day Gap in the Middle Road

2270
02:12:24,600 --> 02:12:26,000
off. 
And then train with either the 

2271
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:30,900
people that hosts me or you know
the like a club that I knew 

2272
02:12:30,900 --> 02:12:34,400
nearby or whatever. 
And every time it's it's great 

2273
02:12:34,400 --> 02:12:36,100
like because you know, it's 
exciting. 

2274
02:12:36,300 --> 02:12:38,800
Because it's new and it's not 
normal and to them, it's 

2275
02:12:38,800 --> 02:12:40,500
exciting because there's a new 
person there. 

2276
02:12:40,700 --> 02:12:45,500
And so like it's just that like 
exhilaration and, you know, sort

2277
02:12:45,500 --> 02:12:47,000
of immersing in it, that's what 
I mean. 

2278
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:50,100
Like, like when I'm away from 
home, I just want to train all 

2279
02:12:50,100 --> 02:12:51,600
the time. 
And when I say work, I don't 

2280
02:12:51,600 --> 02:12:54,200
mean like make money. 
Like, I mean that like just be 

2281
02:12:54,200 --> 02:12:56,900
immersed in doing the dog 
training stuff and develop 

2282
02:12:56,900 --> 02:12:58,100
skills and all that kind of 
stuff. 

2283
02:12:58,100 --> 02:13:01,500
So there's so many people that I
have trained with the, some of 

2284
02:13:01,500 --> 02:13:04,200
them you've heard of and some of
them you have it, you know, like

2285
02:13:04,200 --> 02:13:06,100
they're just good dog trainers 
that do. 

2286
02:13:06,300 --> 02:13:08,900
Of any sort of profile, you 
never know that they even do 

2287
02:13:08,900 --> 02:13:12,200
anything except that, there are 
member of someone's club and 

2288
02:13:12,200 --> 02:13:14,100
their incredible when they bring
out their dog. 

2289
02:13:16,100 --> 02:13:18,300
So yeah, there's so many people 
and given the opportunity. 

2290
02:13:18,300 --> 02:13:20,900
That's what I would love to do. 
Like I would love to there was a

2291
02:13:20,900 --> 02:13:23,900
period there where I was trying 
to convince my wife pre our 

2292
02:13:23,900 --> 02:13:27,800
second kid and before my first 
went to school, there was a 

2293
02:13:27,800 --> 02:13:29,900
period there. 
I was trying to convince her to 

2294
02:13:29,900 --> 02:13:33,800
hit the road for six months and 
will I wanted to live out of a 

2295
02:13:33,800 --> 02:13:36,100
van and just travel around 
training. 

2296
02:13:36,200 --> 02:13:40,000
I'm with people. 
Yeah, and it just didn't happen,

2297
02:13:40,200 --> 02:13:42,300
you know? 
Like it just we just didn't pull

2298
02:13:42,300 --> 02:13:44,400
it off. 
We didn't the Stars didn't align

2299
02:13:44,400 --> 02:13:46,900
but I feel like that would have 
been an amazing six months. 

2300
02:13:46,900 --> 02:13:48,800
Who probably would have worked 
turned into 12. 

2301
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:50,700
You know what I think. 
That's what she could sense and 

2302
02:13:50,700 --> 02:13:54,800
starts to happen. 
It was probably never going to 

2303
02:13:54,800 --> 02:13:58,500
come to an end but yeah I love 
doing that stuff. 

2304
02:13:58,500 --> 02:14:03,900
I love training with people. 
Yeah there's I don't want to 

2305
02:14:03,900 --> 02:14:08,400
even name anyone because of the 
Paul would leave out and you 

2306
02:14:08,400 --> 02:14:12,600
know what I mean? 
Yeah, sure sure. 

2307
02:14:12,600 --> 02:14:19,100
So now I'm left in insert and 
see if you if you will do a name

2308
02:14:19,100 --> 02:14:22,600
drop in the next question. 
Are there any newcomers that you

2309
02:14:22,600 --> 02:14:28,300
have on your eyes or that you're
having your eyes on your 

2310
02:14:28,300 --> 02:14:33,100
comments? 
I don't know young trainers 

2311
02:14:33,100 --> 02:14:36,400
handlers where you think that's 
really interesting. 

2312
02:14:36,400 --> 02:14:42,500
Are very skilled or very 
intuitive again. 

2313
02:14:42,500 --> 02:14:44,800
I'm not sure who I would name in
that regard. 

2314
02:14:48,700 --> 02:14:54,300
So I work with disco Jazz, who 
she? 

2315
02:14:54,800 --> 02:14:57,600
We started training together, 
many years ago, she was in the 

2316
02:14:57,600 --> 02:15:01,200
Army and got out and had a 
sister dog that she was trying 

2317
02:15:01,200 --> 02:15:07,900
to turn into an assistance dog 
and we trained together and she 

2318
02:15:07,900 --> 02:15:11,900
has been a fun one to watch. 
Develop like she's got a 

2319
02:15:12,700 --> 02:15:15,700
incredible skill set with dogs 
and gets better and better. 

2320
02:15:15,700 --> 02:15:18,100
Every time, every dog she's 
better with. 

2321
02:15:18,500 --> 02:15:23,300
Um, and last year in the you 
before we raised a couple of 

2322
02:15:23,300 --> 02:15:27,600
dogs together to sell to the 
police that went incredibly well

2323
02:15:27,600 --> 02:15:32,400
and there was I was pretty 
involved with those stones like 

2324
02:15:32,400 --> 02:15:37,100
a sort of helped her with it but
we're doing it again now and I'm

2325
02:15:37,400 --> 02:15:40,400
intentionally don't have a lot 
to do with those dogs. 

2326
02:15:40,400 --> 02:15:43,900
Like I'm trying to, I want her 
to do that by herself because 

2327
02:15:43,900 --> 02:15:47,200
she can and I think actually 
should do a much better job than

2328
02:15:47,200 --> 02:15:49,100
me like once they're old. 
Enough and the ready. 

2329
02:15:49,100 --> 02:15:51,200
I'll do all the decoy young and 
like, that'll be it. 

2330
02:15:51,200 --> 02:15:54,900
But like I'm really not having a
lot to do with them because 

2331
02:15:54,900 --> 02:15:59,600
she's so capable of doing it. 
And I think that certainly in 

2332
02:15:59,600 --> 02:16:04,300
that space in raising developing
training dogs for service. 

2333
02:16:04,700 --> 02:16:08,400
I think that she has a big 
career ahead of her and doing 

2334
02:16:08,400 --> 02:16:11,500
that if she chooses to and I 
think that she could probably do

2335
02:16:11,500 --> 02:16:14,400
that at scale, you know like 
train other people to do it and 

2336
02:16:14,400 --> 02:16:17,200
do it like with more than just 
two dogs at a time like in her 

2337
02:16:17,200 --> 02:16:20,500
house. 
So I think that She has the 

2338
02:16:20,500 --> 02:16:25,200
capacity to take that to a much 
higher level she do like, you 

2339
02:16:25,208 --> 02:16:28,000
know, it's probably need some 
more access to other people 

2340
02:16:28,000 --> 02:16:30,300
doing it rather than just 
getting that info from me about 

2341
02:16:30,300 --> 02:16:33,000
how to do it for. 
We need to travel a little bit 

2342
02:16:33,000 --> 02:16:36,000
more and sort of go to some of 
the bigger working dog kennels 

2343
02:16:36,000 --> 02:16:39,700
and see the way that they do 
things more as a like you know 

2344
02:16:39,799 --> 02:16:45,500
every time I go to select our 
Hill in in the u.s. yeah like 

2345
02:16:45,500 --> 02:16:48,200
it's a it's a production 
facility you know? 

2346
02:16:48,299 --> 02:16:51,700
No, like they're turning green 
dogs into police dogs, as fast 

2347
02:16:51,700 --> 02:16:55,100
as that as fast as possible. 
And I think that's kind of, the 

2348
02:16:55,100 --> 02:16:56,900
sort of thing. 
That's maybe she just needs some

2349
02:16:56,900 --> 02:16:59,900
more exposure to and like that 
kind of process because what 

2350
02:16:59,900 --> 02:17:02,500
she's doing currently is very 
bespoke, you know, like a couple

2351
02:17:02,500 --> 02:17:06,799
of dogs at a time to an 
incredibly high level, but maybe

2352
02:17:06,799 --> 02:17:09,600
just seeing that process of 
green dog to working, dog. 

2353
02:17:09,600 --> 02:17:12,100
A little bit more. 
But yeah, nice, she impresses me

2354
02:17:12,100 --> 02:17:15,400
all the time and she's 
definitely not that. 

2355
02:17:15,400 --> 02:17:19,100
She's like I'm unknown and 
unheard of But, you know, I 

2356
02:17:19,108 --> 02:17:21,900
think that she's definitely 
someone to watch and to learn 

2357
02:17:21,900 --> 02:17:25,700
from, as well. 
Greet greet all the Tar. 

2358
02:17:25,700 --> 02:17:27,900
Heel is great, Cherry was on the
show as well. 

2359
02:17:28,600 --> 02:17:30,799
I really. 
Yeah that Jerry's great Jarius 

2360
02:17:31,600 --> 02:17:33,500
Jerry's our wealth of knowledge.
She's one of those people that's

2361
02:17:33,500 --> 02:17:37,200
probably forgotten more than 
I'll ever know and never every 

2362
02:17:37,200 --> 02:17:39,200
time I speak to him, I get 
embarrassed because of how much 

2363
02:17:39,200 --> 02:17:45,900
I still he's content. 
Yeah I think that's okay. 

2364
02:17:45,900 --> 02:17:51,200
Your I see myself as a Say in 
English and multiplier? 

2365
02:17:51,799 --> 02:18:02,700
Yeah, yeah. 
And and So yesterday I did the 

2366
02:18:02,700 --> 02:18:06,500
recording with Simon Prince, I 
had this interview, sound prints

2367
02:18:06,799 --> 02:18:16,000
and during the show, I just had 
this idea that I want to ask him

2368
02:18:16,000 --> 02:18:19,400
to ask a question for my next 
guest, and thank you. 

2369
02:18:19,900 --> 02:18:22,400
Okay. 
So did he know it would be me? 

2370
02:18:22,900 --> 02:18:26,100
I think he's somebody else think
he knew it. 

2371
02:18:26,100 --> 02:18:29,400
As you, because I mentioned that
I will have you today. 

2372
02:18:30,000 --> 02:18:35,400
So, we are trying now. 
Something I will just press play

2373
02:18:35,400 --> 02:18:37,799
on yesterday's episode. 
You recorded it, right? 

2374
02:18:37,799 --> 02:18:40,500
Okay. 
And, and I hope you understand 

2375
02:18:40,500 --> 02:18:43,700
it. 
Otherwise I just have to save 

2376
02:18:43,700 --> 02:18:46,799
myself so we can edit it or I 
can edit it afterwards. 

2377
02:18:47,299 --> 02:18:52,799
So I hope this works like this 
because while talking everything

2378
02:18:52,799 --> 02:18:56,799
seemed to be clear for me now 
that I Do it again? 

2379
02:18:57,000 --> 02:18:59,200
I thought, damn it. 
What is he saying? 

2380
02:19:00,000 --> 02:19:04,299
Because of the, the Dutch slang.
But let's try it like this. 

2381
02:19:07,799 --> 02:19:16,000
Next guest. 
Why did you ever start it to be 

2382
02:19:16,000 --> 02:19:18,000
show in humans with animal 
training? 

2383
02:19:22,299 --> 02:19:25,600
Hmm. 
Did you could hear the question?

2384
02:19:25,700 --> 02:19:31,299
Yeah, yeah, I heard it. 
So I always had dogs growing up 

2385
02:19:32,799 --> 02:19:37,200
and, like everybody. 
And my father is quite good with

2386
02:19:37,200 --> 02:19:38,700
dogs. 
Not like, he's not a trained 

2387
02:19:38,700 --> 02:19:39,600
eyes. 
Never, you know. 

2388
02:19:39,600 --> 02:19:43,000
Like, but we just had, we always
had pets that were very good 

2389
02:19:43,000 --> 02:19:44,600
pets. 
You know, never any issues. 

2390
02:19:45,600 --> 02:19:52,200
So I always enjoyed the company 
of dogs and then we made my 

2391
02:19:52,200 --> 02:19:53,500
wife. 
Had a dog. 

2392
02:19:53,800 --> 02:19:57,000
I was in the Army and he was her
dog, you know, like because I 

2393
02:19:57,000 --> 02:20:01,800
was gone sort of eight months of
the year at least and so you 

2394
02:20:01,800 --> 02:20:05,700
know he was her dog. 
He was an older dog. 

2395
02:20:05,700 --> 02:20:09,000
When we got him he was like 
seven or eight years old at just

2396
02:20:09,000 --> 02:20:11,900
like a mongrel border collie. 
Kind of dog, right? 

2397
02:20:13,300 --> 02:20:18,500
But he was the first time I 
lived with a dog and didn't have

2398
02:20:18,700 --> 02:20:22,100
like the closest relationship 
with the dog because there's a 

2399
02:20:22,108 --> 02:20:24,500
kid like you know, I had these 
really Close relationships with 

2400
02:20:24,508 --> 02:20:27,200
the dog and I like, we lived 
opposite, this park, and I would

2401
02:20:27,200 --> 02:20:29,100
always take the dogs there. 
And like I actually was very 

2402
02:20:29,100 --> 02:20:32,000
like the dog obviously thought 
of itself as my father's dog. 

2403
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:34,100
But I always had a strong 
relationship with the do, okay? 

2404
02:20:34,100 --> 02:20:40,900
But so what made me really get 
into it was that dog's name was 

2405
02:20:40,900 --> 02:20:43,300
Ernie and I wanted to train a 
dog. 

2406
02:20:44,100 --> 02:20:49,500
So let me take a step back. 
I saw a military working dog for

2407
02:20:49,500 --> 02:20:53,500
the first time on deployment and
it was the first live by it that

2408
02:20:53,508 --> 02:20:57,100
I The saw and it was. 
So the first military working 

2409
02:20:57,100 --> 02:20:58,200
dog. 
I ever saw was the first slide 

2410
02:20:58,200 --> 02:20:59,700
bite that. 
I never saw like proper bite, 

2411
02:20:59,700 --> 02:21:03,600
you know, and the level of 
control. 

2412
02:21:06,700 --> 02:21:10,700
What I didn't know was looking 
at was, it was probably the best

2413
02:21:10,700 --> 02:21:12,200
military working dog I've ever 
seen. 

2414
02:21:12,200 --> 02:21:13,700
And the best Handler I've ever 
seen. 

2415
02:21:13,900 --> 02:21:17,300
Okay, I didn't know that because
it was my first exposure to it. 

2416
02:21:17,600 --> 02:21:23,000
And, and what I came to 
understand later was, they were 

2417
02:21:24,400 --> 02:21:28,400
an anomaly at how well in tune 
they were and all those things. 

2418
02:21:28,400 --> 02:21:31,600
So that is what prompted me to 
want to get into dog training. 

2419
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:35,400
I saw that and I was like, oh 
look at this, this is amazing. 

2420
02:21:35,400 --> 02:21:38,500
And at the time at the time I 
was embedded with the Afghan 

2421
02:21:38,500 --> 02:21:44,400
Army and this guy he was an 
american guy and he was also but

2422
02:21:44,400 --> 02:21:47,100
in a different can dock like a 
different Afghan unit. 

2423
02:21:47,100 --> 02:21:51,900
But we work together quite 
closely and I would like I lived

2424
02:21:51,900 --> 02:21:56,300
with the Afghan guys. 
I went kind of Rogue, not Rogue,

2425
02:21:56,300 --> 02:22:02,100
but I went very, what's the 
right word? 

2426
02:22:03,100 --> 02:22:08,400
I became an Afghani basically, 
my I spoke, my interpreter was 

2427
02:22:08,400 --> 02:22:11,900
killed on the like the second, 
the second mission we went on. 

2428
02:22:11,900 --> 02:22:17,500
So I very, very quickly had to 
learn past due and I just 

2429
02:22:17,500 --> 02:22:22,300
completely immersed, myself. 
And, but there were times when I

2430
02:22:22,300 --> 02:22:25,600
was kind of somewhat Cerned. 
Like, I didn't feel especially 

2431
02:22:25,600 --> 02:22:29,400
safe living with a lot of the 
guys, I was working with there 

2432
02:22:29,400 --> 02:22:31,600
was some that I trusted, you 
know, implicitly, but others are

2433
02:22:31,600 --> 02:22:35,900
didn't, and for good reason, you
know, but this guy had the dog 

2434
02:22:35,900 --> 02:22:37,900
and he was in the same job as 
me, but just in a different 

2435
02:22:37,900 --> 02:22:39,200
section. 
But he had the dog. 

2436
02:22:40,200 --> 02:22:43,100
And I was always jealous of 
that. 

2437
02:22:43,100 --> 02:22:46,600
And I saw that like human, the 
dog were in such tune with each 

2438
02:22:46,600 --> 02:22:51,400
other and I didn't understand 
what an anomaly. 

2439
02:22:51,400 --> 02:22:53,600
It was it turned out like it, it
turned out. 

2440
02:22:53,700 --> 02:22:56,000
Such a strange situation that go
actually turned out to be a 

2441
02:22:56,000 --> 02:23:00,300
really high rank. 
It turned out that like he's dog

2442
02:23:00,300 --> 02:23:03,900
was like, it's incredibly 
trained, dog, that he didn't 

2443
02:23:03,900 --> 02:23:06,400
write, he actually had no 
business. 

2444
02:23:06,400 --> 02:23:09,800
Even having the dog there. 
He just like, it was this 

2445
02:23:09,800 --> 02:23:12,400
ridiculous situation that I just
didn't put together. 

2446
02:23:12,400 --> 02:23:14,300
Like, I didn't really understand
all that. 

2447
02:23:14,600 --> 02:23:19,800
All I knew was that he had this 
dog and I wanted that and so 

2448
02:23:19,800 --> 02:23:20,800
that's what got me into dog 
training. 

2449
02:23:20,800 --> 02:23:23,900
When I came home from that trip,
I was like, oh yeah, I'm Into 

2450
02:23:23,900 --> 02:23:26,200
this. 
And that's when I started really

2451
02:23:26,200 --> 02:23:28,000
researching and really diving 
into it. 

2452
02:23:28,000 --> 02:23:29,500
But the problem was, I didn't 
have a dog. 

2453
02:23:29,500 --> 02:23:34,400
I had this old dog Ernie who 
like he was like he was like he 

2454
02:23:34,400 --> 02:23:38,100
was like 15, you know like this 
old blind, decrepit border 

2455
02:23:38,100 --> 02:23:40,200
collie that couldn't walk you 
know. 

2456
02:23:40,200 --> 02:23:45,000
And so like that's why my 
introduction to do training was 

2457
02:23:45,000 --> 02:23:50,200
fiery only because I just didn't
have dogs and it wasn't until I 

2458
02:23:50,200 --> 02:23:53,400
got a dog of my own that then it
was like, okay, baptism by fire 

2459
02:23:53,400 --> 02:23:55,800
now. 
To figure it out, but that's 

2460
02:23:55,800 --> 02:24:00,300
what got me started on it was 
that observing that military 

2461
02:24:00,300 --> 02:24:02,300
working dog and I didn't have 
heaps to do with it, just like a

2462
02:24:02,300 --> 02:24:04,300
couple of times. 
But I saw it by at once for real

2463
02:24:04,300 --> 02:24:08,600
and I was like this, I mean, 21 
years. 

2464
02:24:08,600 --> 02:24:12,800
This this is going to be 
important and then I when I 

2465
02:24:12,808 --> 02:24:15,200
started training dogs, when I 
started like getting my hands on

2466
02:24:15,200 --> 02:24:17,300
them and I liked what I started 
doing was while still in the 

2467
02:24:17,300 --> 02:24:20,100
Army, just sort of training 
people in the areas dogs, you 

2468
02:24:20,100 --> 02:24:23,400
know, like just told people I 
was into it and wanted to play 

2469
02:24:23,400 --> 02:24:24,500
with. 
Are dogs really? 

2470
02:24:26,200 --> 02:24:31,100
I had a feeling come over me 
where I was like, oh, this is 

2471
02:24:31,100 --> 02:24:34,900
gonna be forever. 
Like, that's the feeling I got. 

2472
02:24:34,900 --> 02:24:36,800
Like, I was like God. 
This isn't, you know, I have 

2473
02:24:36,800 --> 02:24:38,700
heaps of hobbies. 
Like, I'm an obsessive 

2474
02:24:38,700 --> 02:24:42,800
researcher, I get like obsessed 
with things and I, it's all I 

2475
02:24:42,800 --> 02:24:45,000
talk about for 12 months and 
then I'd never talk about it 

2476
02:24:45,000 --> 02:24:49,100
again, you know, like I'm done 
that with everything but I had 

2477
02:24:49,100 --> 02:24:53,500
the same feeling like it was the
first time, I think, I'd go. 

2478
02:24:53,700 --> 02:24:56,900
Feeling where I was like, oh no,
this is going to stick. 

2479
02:24:57,100 --> 02:25:01,100
This is this is going to become 
a big piece of who I am. 

2480
02:25:01,100 --> 02:25:05,400
This isn't like a passing thing 
and it like the same happened 

2481
02:25:05,400 --> 02:25:08,700
when I started making content. 
Like when I started running 

2482
02:25:08,700 --> 02:25:11,000
cameras and I started trying to 
make YouTube videos and stuff 

2483
02:25:11,000 --> 02:25:13,000
like that. 
Just for myself, I had the same 

2484
02:25:13,000 --> 02:25:17,500
feeling when I was like oh this 
isn't this isn't a hobby this is

2485
02:25:17,500 --> 02:25:20,500
gonna this is going to become a 
part of who I am and so I was 

2486
02:25:20,500 --> 02:25:23,000
lucky enough, I could join the 
two things together, right? 

2487
02:25:23,000 --> 02:25:27,300
I could make Make make videos 
about dog training but yeah. 

2488
02:25:27,300 --> 02:25:29,300
So that's that's how I came to 
be. 

2489
02:25:29,300 --> 02:25:32,500
That's that's that's how I 
realized that I was gonna do 

2490
02:25:32,500 --> 02:25:37,300
more of this. 
Nice nice. 

2491
02:25:38,500 --> 02:25:47,300
Where did the dog bite? 
It was actually it was like the 

2492
02:25:47,300 --> 02:25:52,500
guy was running away from the 
dog bit him and he was cuffed, 

2493
02:25:52,600 --> 02:25:54,700
didn't it? 
He's handcuffed in front because

2494
02:25:54,700 --> 02:25:58,700
he ran from being coughed and 
the dog bit him under the 

2495
02:25:58,700 --> 02:26:03,000
scapula. 
So in its to this day it's the 

2496
02:26:03,000 --> 02:26:05,700
first Lifeboat I saw and it's 
still the most horrific I've 

2497
02:26:05,700 --> 02:26:09,500
ever seen. 
It's sort of what's this 

2498
02:26:09,500 --> 02:26:12,600
coupler. 
I feel like he's the bat like on

2499
02:26:12,600 --> 02:26:17,500
the back and it's like show like
his the shoulder blades there. 

2500
02:26:17,500 --> 02:26:21,300
Like it got like under its lower
jaw is like in under and he 

2501
02:26:21,300 --> 02:26:25,700
fell, the dog was incredible 
brighter and it just kept 

2502
02:26:25,700 --> 02:26:31,600
digging in and so like it had 
his entire shoulder in its mouth

2503
02:26:31,600 --> 02:26:38,500
and was like kept lifting the 
like scapula up and over to the 

2504
02:26:38,500 --> 02:26:42,000
point where you could see the 
guys long and And it was, it was

2505
02:26:42,000 --> 02:26:45,600
horrific. 
Yeah, intense, yeah. 

2506
02:26:45,600 --> 02:26:48,100
He left in a helicopter. 
I don't know whether he lived. 

2507
02:26:50,100 --> 02:26:52,100
I doubt it. 
It was. 

2508
02:26:52,300 --> 02:26:54,700
And what was amazing. 
Was the handler comes over and 

2509
02:26:54,700 --> 02:26:56,700
he just sells a dog to out and 
the dog, dude. 

2510
02:26:56,700 --> 02:27:00,500
And I was like, Wow. 
And just like, like was like, 

2511
02:27:00,500 --> 02:27:03,300
yeah. 
Like waiting like now, and 

2512
02:27:03,300 --> 02:27:06,100
that's what I had no idea like 
like oh, that's how it goes. 

2513
02:27:06,100 --> 02:27:12,500
It's a burnt. 
Like, but that was such an 

2514
02:27:12,500 --> 02:27:15,200
experienced dog, you know? 
And that was such an experienced

2515
02:27:15,200 --> 02:27:18,200
team and I just had no idea. 
That's what I was saying. 

2516
02:27:18,400 --> 02:27:21,000
I had no idea that they were 
that good. 

2517
02:27:21,100 --> 02:27:24,400
I just thought that was normal, 
too. 

2518
02:27:24,400 --> 02:27:29,700
Evidently it's not So bad. 
Now, it's your turn. 

2519
02:27:30,700 --> 02:27:33,400
What would you like to ask the 
next guest? 

2520
02:27:33,400 --> 02:27:36,700
Not knowing who it is. 
So maybe it is Stephan baton 

2521
02:27:36,700 --> 02:27:41,100
from the Dutch police, but this 
guy is extremely busy and always

2522
02:27:41,200 --> 02:27:47,100
finds a new job to do instead of
the podcast or or someone else. 

2523
02:27:47,100 --> 02:27:49,200
I can't tell you yet because I 
don't know. 

2524
02:27:49,200 --> 02:27:50,200
Yeah. 
Okay. 

2525
02:27:52,600 --> 02:28:02,700
That's a good question. 
I think something I'm usually 

2526
02:28:02,700 --> 02:28:07,200
interested in with most 
experienced people, is it. 

2527
02:28:07,200 --> 02:28:11,100
They have usually had some 
radical shift in what they do. 

2528
02:28:11,500 --> 02:28:14,600
I think that most dog trainers, 
who have been at it for a long 

2529
02:28:14,600 --> 02:28:17,300
time, have an experience that 
they can talk about that. 

2530
02:28:17,300 --> 02:28:22,000
Like radically made them either 
aware of something or change 

2531
02:28:22,000 --> 02:28:26,600
something, you know, like Pat 
Nolan. 

2532
02:28:27,300 --> 02:28:31,000
Talks about the bird coming 
back, where he like, okay, so 

2533
02:28:31,000 --> 02:28:35,100
I'd be curious to hear if the 
next person has a moment like 

2534
02:28:35,100 --> 02:28:38,300
that where they sort of 
reflected on their training and 

2535
02:28:38,300 --> 02:28:43,400
realize like, oh, I have to 
change or realized like, you 

2536
02:28:43,400 --> 02:28:49,000
know, this is not the way to do 
it, if they had a moment like 

2537
02:28:49,000 --> 02:28:51,100
that was it. 
Is that a question? 

2538
02:28:51,100 --> 02:28:52,800
Did I asked a question earlier 
clearly? 

2539
02:28:53,100 --> 02:28:54,600
I love it. 
I love it. 

2540
02:28:54,600 --> 02:29:00,300
That's a really good one and And
I'm curious on the answer so I 

2541
02:29:00,300 --> 02:29:03,500
will I will then send you as 
well, the link to the next show 

2542
02:29:03,800 --> 02:29:05,700
so you perfect. 
Listen, listen to the answer. 

2543
02:29:06,200 --> 02:29:09,300
Perfect, I'm excited. 
Text urine. 

2544
02:29:09,900 --> 02:29:14,300
Thank you for almost 2 hours and
40 minutes. 

2545
02:29:14,700 --> 02:29:17,100
Yeah, this is a Joe Rogan length
podcast. 

2546
02:29:17,100 --> 02:29:23,500
This is I'm just listening to 
podcast with Chaco willing and 

2547
02:29:23,500 --> 02:29:28,500
Tim Kennedy's 5 h plus. 
So not that not that much yet 

2548
02:29:28,500 --> 02:29:31,900
but thank you very much. 
I think we hit our record, the 

2549
02:29:33,500 --> 02:29:37,100
latest show or the longest run 
till now was with almond dinkler

2550
02:29:37,300 --> 02:29:39,300
but this I was about 2 hours 20 
minutes. 

2551
02:29:39,300 --> 02:29:44,100
So we definitely set a new 
record was very interesting for 

2552
02:29:44,100 --> 02:29:46,600
me and great to get to know you 
better. 

2553
02:29:47,400 --> 02:29:50,500
Finally had a chance to talk to 
someone that I've been listening

2554
02:29:50,500 --> 02:29:54,600
to for so many years now and so 
back. 

2555
02:29:54,600 --> 02:29:56,700
Then I for sure you don't 
remember. 

2556
02:29:56,700 --> 02:30:01,900
I sent you a message on Facebook
when I think Ian's Frank back 

2557
02:30:01,900 --> 02:30:06,700
then suggested to listening to 
your show and since then, since 

2558
02:30:06,700 --> 02:30:09,900
then this was one, The weather 
was the first podcast I actually

2559
02:30:09,900 --> 02:30:15,100
listened to, for sure. 
You and Glen and you work. 

2560
02:30:15,400 --> 02:30:18,800
Affected me a lot. 
Yeah. 

2561
02:30:18,800 --> 02:30:20,800
And thank you very much for your
work. 

2562
02:30:21,300 --> 02:30:23,400
Well, my pleasure. 
Thanks so much for having me. 

2563
02:30:23,400 --> 02:30:25,700
It's been a really fun 
conversation. 

2564
02:30:27,100 --> 02:30:30,400
Very, it's a great format. 
You have. 

2565
02:30:30,400 --> 02:30:32,800
It's very personal. 
It's very yeah. 

2566
02:30:32,800 --> 02:30:34,300
Thanks. 
It was very nice. 

2567
02:30:34,700 --> 02:30:37,100
I enjoyed it very much. 
That's great. 

2568
02:30:37,300 --> 02:30:40,500
Good to know. 
No, hopefully we meet someone 

2569
02:30:40,500 --> 02:30:43,800
somewhere. 
Yeah. 

2570
02:30:44,100 --> 02:30:49,200
So I think I did pretty big copy
paste on you. 

2571
02:30:49,500 --> 02:30:51,900
In the end of my shows, please 
like share. 

2572
02:30:51,900 --> 02:30:56,700
Subscribe if you like and you're
here and write our show. 

2573
02:30:56,900 --> 02:31:00,500
Give us some comments if you if 
you like what you've heard, if 

2574
02:31:00,500 --> 02:31:03,400
you want to reach out for pets, 
I will put his links to the show

2575
02:31:03,400 --> 02:31:07,400
node. 
And also thanks very much.