1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,400 I was in a quote unquote dream relationship. 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,880 I lived with my partner and I was miserable. 3 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,200 Embrace it. Find your chosen circle, your 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,800 chosen family. They will help you get rid of 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,320 all the crap in your head and you can actually be your 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:26,080 authentic self. I would say is when people in 7 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:29,560 public, like it's in ticket officers, got my pronouns 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,120 correct. I think that was the moment 9 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,880 where I kind of felt as if I wasn't constantly being 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,760 triggered. I got into activism because I 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:41,320 didn't like the way that my community was being treated, and 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,240 I still don't. There's only been one court case 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,920 in this country of a trans person assaulting anyone in a 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,600 bathroom. One court case and that, and 15 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,720 then only two in the entirety of the US. 16 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,040 I'm probably not gonna name her because I don't make my 17 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:01,080 insurance or stretch that far. Actually, it's quite publicised. 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:06,120 So JK Rowling. Hello and welcome back to the 19 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,920 Queerest podcast telling the fiercest stories. 20 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,440 This is Queer Talker and I'm Ben Cicchetti, and this week I am 21 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,640 joined by the inspiring Rico Jacob Chase. 22 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,640 But before we get to that conversation, I've got a quick 23 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,120 favour to ask. Wherever you are watching or 24 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,200 listening to this episode, hit that subscribe button. 25 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,840 It's one click that's going to make a massive difference. 26 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,000 It's going to allow me to grow this podcast and it's going to 27 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,160 allow me to bring you the best and the Queerest episodes every 28 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,480 single time. So in advance, thanks. 29 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,520 Thank you. Now to my conversation with 30 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,040 Rico. Today, I'm joined by someone 31 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:44,160 that was on my initial wish list of guests for this podcast, Rico 32 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,720 Jacob Chase, welcome to Queer Talker. 33 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,840 Obviously, thank you so much for having me. 34 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,320 If I wasn't so overwhelmed with everything political, I would 35 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,000 have 100% agreed to come earlier. 36 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,520 But I'm so glad to be with you, be here with you today. 37 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,600 Thank you for having me. It's going to be a vibe. 38 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,880 Yeah, I can't wait. I'm so excited. 39 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,080 I launched the podcast and then everything kind of kicked off. 40 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,479 So I appreciate there was a lot of people that had to kind of 41 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:10,680 say in some time I will definitely come on. 42 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,920 So yeah, I appreciate you joining me today. 43 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,320 And we're going to start with a little game that I like to call 44 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,760 Queer Panic. It's a rapid fire set of 45 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,600 questions and you just respond with the first thing that comes 46 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,720 to mind, starting with what was the first album you ever owned? 47 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,840 Blink 180 can't read the name to watch all of them to be on the 48 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,880 sea. I used to be a rock band. 49 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:33,800 Oh. Really. 50 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:35,680 Yeah, you're. In a rock band, what did you 51 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:37,440 instrument I was in? Drummer. 52 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,560 I was a bit of a band lad when I was at school. 53 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,920 Yeah, yeah. So I was, I was in choir, jazz 54 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:48,600 band, orchestra and Olson, my rock band. 55 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,120 I played piano and trumpet and drums. 56 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:54,720 That's amazing. I love that for you. 57 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:00,320 And I guess from, yeah, from that kind of music perspective, 58 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,760 what would be your lip sync song of choice? 59 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:11,160 Oh God, equally nerdy on the street where she lives by My 60 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,520 Fair Lady. I know when I say My Fair Lady 61 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,640 is like Rico, you've got who you are, but that song is absolutely 62 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,600 banger. OK I will, I will admit 63 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,960 ignorance and not know the song so I will have to go and listen. 64 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,560 To it we have a. Playlist that we Add all these 65 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,000 songs to, so listen to it and then add it and it'll be a vibe 66 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:34,280 for people who was a childhood celebrity crush of yours. 67 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:41,320 I would say Jameelia, that's how you say the song. 68 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:43,160 See it in the boy's eyes. I thought that she was 69 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,480 absolutely stunning. Yeah. 70 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,720 But I think I'm more of a sapatosexual now, so I'm not 71 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,720 even, I know people are attractive. 72 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:52,200 I don't know who I'm attracted to. 73 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,520 Or they're not having to like, stare at you from across the 74 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:56,120 room for a bit, like scoping out. 75 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:57,640 I was just seeing if the vibes survived. 76 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,120 It's more about the vibe. I feel that I. 77 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:01,520 Feel. Yeah, I'm just looking. 78 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,800 I don't know. I mean, I think so. 79 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,120 OK, that's fair. And I guess kind of leading from 80 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,480 that as you stare at people across the room, what is the 81 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,120 biggest red flag for you? Oh, I hate jealousy. 82 00:04:18,079 --> 00:04:21,279 I hate jealousy and envy. I think it's such low vibration. 83 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,600 Like if someone tells me that they've done something, which I 84 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,200 think is amazing, my first response is, Oh my God, that's 85 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,280 absolutely brilliant. You're like, never stop, keep 86 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:32,040 going. And then I'd be like, wait, 87 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,320 wait, wait, how did you do that? Like, how did you get your 88 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,960 mindset into that? Like, who did you speak to? 89 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,120 And I feel as if when someone says something jealous in 90 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,560 response, it's almost like they infinitely gonna put you down. 91 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:46,240 Yes. But if I have a bad day and my 92 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,720 entire circle is jealous, you're never gonna achieve anything. 93 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,960 Like, check yourself and check your circle. 94 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:54,800 I always support people, so that's my red flag. 95 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,200 I'm actually not. I'm bummed. 96 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:57,240 Yeah. Bye. 97 00:04:58,240 --> 00:04:59,280 I agree. I agree. 98 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:01,040 People spend way too much time tearing each other down, 99 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:02,440 especially in the social media world. 100 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,560 So yeah, I think build each other up and be happy for each 101 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,640 other. I think that's great. 102 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaking of kind of being happy for people, when was the last 103 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,320 time you laughed so hard you cried? 104 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:19,040 One of my best friends, John Paul, It runs recreate space, 105 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,640 shout out, recreate space. There we go. 106 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,920 Like, we laugh so hard. It's the point where it's kind 107 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,520 of people, like, who are these dude? 108 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,960 And we're just sitting there chuckling over weird stuff. 109 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,800 Like, I was thinking, that's real French food. 110 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,320 Yeah, exactly. And he just opens his mouth like 111 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,520 a whale and the rest. And I, I literally burst out 112 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,000 laughing like there's no one that can make me laugh like JP. 113 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:49,440 JP is a real one. I just love that. 114 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,480 I love that. That's true friendship right 115 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,440 there. Where is your favourite place in 116 00:05:54,440 --> 00:06:00,240 the world? Oh, I would say probably where I 117 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,040 am right now. I know that's really, really 118 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,240 boring, but I love plants. I love safe spaces. 119 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,280 I love places where I can decompress. 120 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:13,680 And Myspace is Myspace. I invite very people over 121 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,640 because I'm about energy and, like, lives and good people. 122 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,240 So yeah, I mean, half of this, this is me. 123 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,320 I worked hard to get here. So yeah. 124 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,560 Yeah, here we are right now. But I really want to go to 125 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,760 Egypt, the pyramids, so I'm going to manifest that. 126 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,640 That's number two. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 127 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,840 That's great. I'm fascinated by ancient Egypt, 128 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:36,680 so that'd be. That'd be definitely a trip 129 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,760 worth making. What is a queer movie that 130 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:40,640 changed you? Here's. 131 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:46,920 Me trying to think of a queer movie. 132 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,120 Oh, disclosure, that documentary. 133 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:52,920 I love documentaries. Yes. 134 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:55,920 Also call me by Call me by your name. 135 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:58,640 Yeah. I cried so hard at the end of 136 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,720 that. That was that was incredible. 137 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,120 But disclosure as in changing my perspective because I there's so 138 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:06,920 many moments where let me explain disclosure. 139 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,840 Disclosure is documentary talking about the perception of 140 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,800 queer people in the media and how we're always vilified 141 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,520 because it's the only way that artists could sneak us into the 142 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,400 script. But I was just like, is it me? 143 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,200 Like, why did I grow up knowing that queer coding was bad? 144 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,200 Like, how would you get that into a kid's head? 145 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,880 So that was really refreshing for me to realise that the 146 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,240 reason why I have these perceptions is because of media. 147 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,600 And I was like, oh, because once you know, like a light switch, 148 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,320 like turns on on your head and he's like, oh, let me deprogram 149 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,480 that in my own head. So Disclosure on Netflix, 150 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,480 absolutely brilliant. Yeah, I highly recommend it to 151 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:45,760 people. It's an incredible documentary. 152 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,960 I think it was such an interesting take when they 153 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,200 talked about the fact that up until, you know, even just a few 154 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:55,360 years ago, trans characters were played by a man dressed as a 155 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,440 woman or a woman dressed as a man. 156 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,880 And that created this perception in people that that's who trans 157 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,440 people are as they are pretending to be their gender. 158 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,720 And that was a real kind of like, I was like, that's 159 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,560 incredible. I never put that connection 160 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,320 together. That is how kind of to your 161 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,560 point, that's how media had built this perception in 162 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,200 everyone, right? And that's kind of what we now 163 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,560 are working against. Oh, sorry, Silence of the Land 164 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,280 did that. Like, yeah, didn't add anything 165 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,040 that they were dressed up in women's clothes. 166 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,640 No, but not it wasn't needed. But it's just constantly 167 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,240 venifying itself anything as. I don't know, I thought as if 168 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,080 the person writing the script, like, lacked imagine imagination 169 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,240 that was like this giraffe spring at straws and thought, 170 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,440 hey, I'm just going to throw that in there to get it, get it 171 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,919 like signed off. And then you think about the 172 00:08:39,919 --> 00:08:42,480 ramifications, Like, what are you saying about this minority 173 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,000 group? And because we don't really have 174 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,240 a voice terse of like massive voice, and they're kind of like 175 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:51,240 in the fringes, it's really, really difficult in order to to 176 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,520 create authentic narratives. I agree. 177 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaking of authentic narratives, is there a queer TV 178 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,280 show that you recommend to everyone? 179 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,040 I would say Orange is the New Black. 180 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,560 I, I love that so much. I think because it had queer 181 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:10,720 coding, but it wasn't incredibly queer. 182 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,800 That makes sense. Like it was a narrative and if 183 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,320 people just happened to be queer I thought that was quite 184 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,640 refreshing. And also sex education. 185 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,520 Shout that out. My mate Anthony's in it. 186 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,320 Also Felix. Sex education is really, really 187 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,720 good. Nice recommend. 2 amazing 188 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,000 recommendations, both on Netflix. 189 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,680 This isn't sponsored by Netflix, I promise you. 190 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,840 I've mentioned 3 Netflix things. What is a queer book you 191 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:39,960 couldn't put down? I'll I'll admit like I haven't 192 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,160 done much reading recently. I think because my day-to-day is 193 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:48,480 mainly reading, I would say girl woman, other is quite good. 194 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,680 That's recommended for a couple of awards. 195 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,440 But honestly, when I take a break, I'm just going to switch 196 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,440 off social media and then just read. 197 00:09:58,560 --> 00:09:59,280 I love that. I love that. 198 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,080 We've had a lot of good recommendations on this, so 199 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,080 there's definitely some good recommendations and that's a 200 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,160 great one. I'm going to have to check that 201 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,240 out. Who is your ultimate queer icon? 202 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:14,080 I'm India Moore. I would say, like the humility, 203 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:21,440 the the talented actress, the activism, just absolute 204 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,760 powerhouse. Yeah, I tend to respect people 205 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,000 that are incredibly, unapologetically authentic, but 206 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,800 also care about people. I just feel as if the higher you 207 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,360 climb, the more you forget where you came from, and you can't do 208 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:36,600 that. You got to bring people up with 209 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,840 you. So yeah, massively Indian Mall. 210 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,800 I love that it's a great choice. What would be one word to 211 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:50,760 describe your childhood? I would say adventurous, but not 212 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,400 for the reasons that you think. People think that I knew I was 213 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,040 trans as a kid. They were signs. 214 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,240 Well, I was too busy outside making mud pies and climbing 215 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,080 trees and I had like this boy in the street. 216 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:08,680 We used to cycle around like our streets outside of our bikes. 217 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:11,640 And then we got this Pikachu. And then I know it's really bad. 218 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,680 We like beheaded it using the bike wheel. 219 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,840 We like turned the bikes on it. That wasn't where I thought that 220 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:19,600 was going. Yeah, I'm sorry. 221 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,720 I apologise to anyone Pikachu cares about Pikachu. 222 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,280 Yeah. We were just doing outside doing 223 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,040 stupid stuff like that was just, Yeah. 224 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:34,280 And I pretended like I was a ninja and I used to hit the 225 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,760 flies with my bamboo stick. And I was like, yeah, I was, 226 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,240 yeah. Imagination and and adventurous. 227 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:42,680 I love that. That's all, Yes. 228 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,040 Yes. What is your five year queer 229 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,440 dream? Five year queer dream. 230 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,640 Well, I'm working on the series right now. 231 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,600 I want that to do well, I think not for me. 232 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,920 I won't tell you tell you about it now, but I'm very, very 233 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,280 excited about it. I think it's the first time that 234 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,640 I put my stamp on something as in like from the get go. 235 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,920 Usually I'm working on clients work, which is nothing wrong 236 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:09,000 with it. I love working for clients 237 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,280 because I'm very, very good at that. 238 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,000 But I think it's different having your own thing. 239 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,120 Also, there's like a different level of anxiety because you 240 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,320 really have to believe in yourself. 241 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,240 You have to really think, this is what I'm going to do and I 242 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,760 want to work with you. Yeah, you have to. 243 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,440 It's different. It's very, very different. 244 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,000 When I'm with the client, I'm just like, well, the client's 245 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,080 amazing, so you should work with them. 246 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,560 Different selling different. When you're rapping yourself, 247 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:33,040 yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly. 248 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,280 I think I might just create like an e-mail address, be like admin 249 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,480 app so I can pretend by my system. 250 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:40,920 I don't know, I'll have a little bit more confidence, like how 251 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,760 many more people? But anyway, yeah, yeah, I I 252 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,640 think that but me as an individual, like I'm a massive 253 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,360 family man. So like I'm, I'm working hard so 254 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,680 I can build that dream. And for me families also I have 255 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:56,880 my partner potentially having kids, etcetera. 256 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,280 So yeah, that for me is a dream. I wouldn't say five year plan 257 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,840 because I'm I'm not sure I can very take care of myself. 258 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,640 I might have had a drink of wood today. 259 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,880 It's like, yeah, but am I? But yeah, that's that's kind of 260 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,560 what I want in the long term. So I think that that for me is a 261 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:17,560 bit of a dream. Yeah, a lot of dreams gonna be a 262 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:20,480 reality, but. Cards, Yeah, definitely, 263 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,160 definitely reality. And yeah, maybe we'll get you 264 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,840 back when you can talk about the the project they're working on. 265 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:26,880 I can get some more details on that. 266 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,480 Let's get a bit deeper because you said adventurous, and I 267 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,760 believe to understand a queer person today as an adult, you do 268 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,040 need to understand them as a young person. 269 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,320 So what should I know about you as a child or a teenager to 270 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,520 understand the Rico that sits in front of me today? 271 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,080 Very stubborn, OK? Like, if I didn't want to do it, 272 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,120 I wouldn't do it. OK, I didn't care. 273 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,040 I mean, I, I worked incredibly hard at school, so I wasn't like 274 00:13:57,040 --> 00:13:59,960 a rebel. Like I, I, I knew the value and 275 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,760 like working hard when it comes to education, but if I didn't 276 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:08,360 like you, I didn't like you, you know, And I think that that 277 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,280 individuality, obviously I'd still be polite. 278 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,920 You wouldn't know. But if I made a decision, I made 279 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:19,160 a decision. And I feel as if a lot of people 280 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:24,800 in as queer adults who are very, very vocal, all of all of us 281 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,360 have that core trait because you, you can't be unapologetic 282 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:32,000 to yourself. You can't be online advocating 283 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,800 for the rights of yourself and your community and have like 284 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,720 most Hangouts. I mean, occasionally I have bad 285 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,080 days. Yeah, hell yeah, everyone have 286 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,040 bad days. But you, you have to have that 287 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,360 sort of core determination and self belief. 288 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,040 So I feel like that's definitely from my childhood. 289 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:54,840 But I, I will say though, I only started like identifying with my 290 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,800 LGBT identity at the age of 25. So even though I was very, very 291 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,360 to determine, I didn't necessarily want to disappoint. 292 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,240 Well, I guess my family effectively, I mean, they're 293 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,920 probably going to want to say that on a podcast, but it's just 294 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,040 true. So yeah, at age 25 and I was 295 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,520 actually, no, realistically, I am very depressed. 296 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,320 I am denying so much of my authentic identity. 297 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,760 I was in a quote unquote dream relationship. 298 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,640 I lived with my partner and I was miserable and it just wasn't 299 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:26,960 working. And I was like, well, why isn't 300 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:27,960 it working? Because I'm not myself. 301 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,000 How are you supposed to love someone else? 302 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:35,720 You can't love yourself. So the whole journey has been 303 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,960 incredibly refreshing. I now know who I am. 304 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:43,440 I think before I really wanted to to find someone to compliment 305 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,400 my life in a sense like we will be whole together. 306 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,640 But then when you are by yourself and you are happy, you 307 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,440 pick people because you will like vibe, like I'm OK, I'm 308 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,960 good. Like if I ask someone out and 309 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,120 they say no, I'm just like, it's OK. 310 00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:59,360 I know I'm, I know I'm still awesome. 311 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,880 But you don't, we're not a vibe. We're like Marmite. 312 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,760 That's OK. We'll be friends. 313 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,400 It's not that deep. But when you haven't done the 314 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,000 work on yourself, that just, it's just different. 315 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,520 So I would say, I know I went in a massive circle just that's 316 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,960 good. But I think for me as a child, 317 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:23,280 like being very, very stubborn, like self assured, and these are 318 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,880 my boundaries. And if you don't like me after I 319 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,840 tell you no, that's your problem, because this is where 320 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,360 my line is, yeah. I agree with that, Jim, putting 321 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,400 those boundaries in place, you know, to your to your point, 322 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,600 when you put yourself out there the way that we all do, you kind 323 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,360 of can't use your energy on things that aren't going to give 324 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,880 you that energy back. And I think that's where that 325 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,520 kind of feeling of the vibe comes from for me. 326 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,960 When you were kind of growing up, do you remember the first 327 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,920 LGBTQ plus person you kind of became aware of either in real 328 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,560 life or in media? And I guess specifically, I'd be 329 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,920 curious about the first kind of trans person you became aware 330 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:12,760 of. I think I at school someone 331 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,440 would say, do you know Elton John is gay And be like what 332 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,720 Elton John like? How could he just be out there 333 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,880 in the Etho making songs and music? 334 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,079 And then we'd just look at artists and just be a bit 335 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,200 confused. We're like Prince maybe I feel 336 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:34,120 like, but because I mean, Section 28, Section 28 removed 337 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,360 all mention of Elgin evil from the school curriculum. 338 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,920 So they couldn't even tell us that bisexual people existed. 339 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,640 So obviously there's going to be some problems. 340 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,600 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but growing up, like, 341 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,960 looking at stars, going, like, I'm very confused. 342 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,160 And yeah, even sex education, you know, it does, doesn't make 343 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:50,440 sense. Like they teach you to put on 344 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,520 condoms, but they don't tell you about, like other people exist 345 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,480 and other sexualities exist. It's wild. 346 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:02,080 Yeah, so I would say probably some of the big musicians, yeah, 347 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,600 like Freddie Mercury, like Elton John. 348 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,360 I think those were the moments. But I I do distinctly remember 349 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,000 that even in my school, it was very nerdy. 350 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:18,160 OK, so if you bullied any of us, the bully ended up getting 351 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,880 blacklisted. No one would OK, it was a little 352 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,520 girls school as well, so you know, they could be quite catty. 353 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,560 So being labelled as a buddy was like the worst thing that ever 354 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,240 happened to you because you had to you ended up having to leave 355 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,800 the school because no one would talk to you because you got 356 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,360 blacklisted because you were mean to me in the locker room. 357 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,000 But for some reason LGBT being a lesbian. 358 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,480 OK, that was that was really that wasn't like no, that wasn't 359 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:48,280 a no, which is a real shame. Actually, there was one girl, I 360 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:49,640 hope she doesn't mind me sharing this. 361 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:53,920 She got identified as a lesbian and the brilliant got so bad she 362 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,320 had to leave the school. So I even I necessarily know 363 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:03,160 what it meant to be a lesbian. I think I kind of knew I didn't 364 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,560 necessarily want to be it, if that makes sense. 365 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,880 Yeah, it does. Which is kind of funny actually, 366 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,840 considering it was an all girls school and every single year I 367 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,360 used to have this person who was like my best friend. 368 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,600 I used to open doors for her. I used to carry her bag. 369 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,680 I literally took care of her. Like what do you want for lunch? 370 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,320 I'll go get it for you. Like I chivalry, like I used to 371 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,160 take the and in a way that kind of was like, in a way like my 372 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,320 partner. I had someone that I was very, 373 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,800 very close to. So even they say it wasn't 374 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,080 necessarily sexual in my head, like in my head, but that was my 375 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,680 person. So even if you don't necessarily 376 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,440 understand or you don't have the words to describe who you are, 377 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,240 you still are inherently and organically going to become the 378 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,560 person that you're meant to be. It was only when I hit puberty 379 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,800 that I kind of realised that I fancied some of the girls in my 380 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:59,760 school where I was like, ah crap, I don't know if I can 381 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,000 swear on this. But yeah, the girls is like this 382 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,200 is probably not going to get out there considering where I am. 383 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,600 But yeah, I think when I got to like 1617, things got a little 384 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,600 bit more accepting. People were saying that they 385 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,600 were LGBT, but yeah, I, I think I didn't even do anything about 386 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,560 it at the age of 25. And I, I think I had this idea 387 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,480 that if I didn't do anything about it, that it would be fine. 388 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,240 They I could just pretend that I was straight. 389 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,600 Yeah. Anyone else think doesn't work 390 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:29,920 that way? It really doesn't. 391 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,600 It's just just accept it, embrace it. 392 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,720 Find your chosen circle, your chosen family. 393 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,080 They will help you get rid of all the crap in your head and 394 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,480 you can actually be your authentic self. 395 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,200 Yeah. I agree. 396 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,080 And you mentioned your authentic self for you and you said it was 397 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,920 a kind of you were 25 when you fully kind of embraced your 398 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,160 LGBTQ plus nature, your queerness. 399 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,840 When do you think you first felt authentically yourself? 400 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,240 And then when did you feel you could bring that authenticity to 401 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,520 everything? So I do think it's another 402 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:01,920 level, right? You can feel authentic, but then 403 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,240 when you just are to you, something you said earlier, 404 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,880 unapologetically yourself, it's kind of two different levels. 405 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:18,280 Them I would say I think as a trans guy, I'm still 406 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,640 transitioning. I may look, it can quite beat it 407 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,960 at this point, but my, as I was taking testosterone, my butt was 408 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,080 the first thing to grow. And I was just like, for 409 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,640 Christ's sake, like I asked for pecs and you gave me butt. 410 00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:35,760 This is what I signed up for. So I ended up being more pear 411 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,120 shaped. And before I had top surgery, I 412 00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:40,960 could, I basically made my breasts, my chest. 413 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,600 I made them into pecs. Yeah. 414 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:47,000 So I had pecs I didn't earn. And I was like, yeah, I'm a big 415 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:49,880 guy, La, La, la. Well, after I had top surgery, I 416 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,120 look more Oval shaped like a teardrop. 417 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,000 And I was just like, this is not what I ordered. 418 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,440 But slowly because it takes five years, you know, sometimes more. 419 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,000 So my torso has grown out a bit. My pecs have kicked in now, but 420 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,360 I've still got little chicken arms. 421 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,400 So, you know, even though there's a lot about me that 422 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:10,480 people. Oh, my God, you're looking like, 423 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,480 yes, thank you. But because it's a journey, 424 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,560 there's things about you that you're not necessarily going to 425 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,280 like. But I think authentically my 426 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,600 myself, if I could put a specific moment on it, I would 427 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,360 say is when people in public, like it's in ticket offices got 428 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:28,520 my pronouns correct. I think that was the moment 429 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,320 where I kind of felt as if I wasn't constantly being 430 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:36,720 triggered because the world saw me as I wanted to be. 431 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,640 And just for anyone. This thing is so familiar with 432 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,800 the trans community. Half of the trans community 433 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,960 don't actually take my replacement therapy. 434 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,560 That's just the reason why it's really important to respect 435 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,040 people's pronouns as and when they tell you. 436 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,840 But the journey to transition does take a while. 437 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,640 It's like you're basically like a teenager. 438 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,560 There's this really, really hilarious moment, and it's 439 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,000 something uncomfortable where a friend of mine, both of us would 440 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,880 at least stay transitioning. And we look like we're 16 year 441 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,880 old boys, basically because we haven't got any facial hair and 442 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,320 we've got baby faces. Yeah, and there was these group 443 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,960 of girls who were like 15 to like 18. 444 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,640 We're not shopping mall came up to us and talked to us. 445 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,240 We're like, girl, you can't walk off the strangers like that. 446 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,640 Didn't your parents teach you? Yeah, I was just like, look, 447 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,720 where's your parents? And you're just like, oh, you 448 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,120 know, parents let us just like who let you out? 449 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,840 I was just like don't take any drinks from anyone. 450 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,240 Don't get into anyones cars. Like stay together. 451 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,840 There's crazy people out there and everyone becomes bothered. 452 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,560 You can't find Uncle Rico. Like literally you need to take 453 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,480 care of yourselves. And they're like OK cool, thank 454 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:41,640 you for that. I just like what? 455 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,240 But no, because you're thrown back into puberty. 456 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,480 Yeah, because you look really, really young. 457 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,320 And I'm, I'm very, very glad now that I'm looking closer to my 458 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,080 age because I, when I looked around about 21, I would hit on 459 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,000 women who were like about 30 and they're just like, he was this 460 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,000 kid talking to me. I was like, no, no, no, no. 461 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:02,280 Give me a couple of years, please. 462 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,280 Oh, look appropriate. Like it's just. 463 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,840 Yeah, it does take time. So you kind of have to be 464 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,120 patient with yourself. But yeah, I'll say authenticity 465 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:14,880 is when people started recognising who I am. 466 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,960 Yeah, that was that was blessed. I think that's amazing. 467 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,400 And obviously today you are one of the most visible trans voices 468 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,320 in the UK right now. Award nominee you've you've 469 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,400 achieved so much for everything you've done. 470 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,800 What was it inside you that made you want to be a vocal, 471 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,760 invisible out advocate, and how did that journey into activism 472 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,840 begin for you? I think I fell into it, to be 473 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:43,400 honest. You. 474 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,320 So my story's a bit dark. People don't necessarily know 475 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:50,720 that. I I mean, I used to talk about 476 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,400 it fairly often, but now I'm not, not as much. 477 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,080 Yeah. So I used to work on an asset 478 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,560 management on trading floors. So I have a degree in economics. 479 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,280 So I went into trading onto trading floors. 480 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,120 And when I was there, I ended up getting bullied quite badly for 481 00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,920 being queer. So I, I, I think I started going 482 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,200 to like gay bars. I probably realised I was 483 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,360 probably more non binary in my presentation. 484 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,080 But they saw that as me quote, UN quote, letting myself go 485 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,920 because like I was no longer like shaving, like I was wearing 486 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,680 more boys clothes. I was more likely to wear 487 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,680 trousers and have dresses and I'm just like, what is going on? 488 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,040 So I got bullied quite badly. I ended up post traumatic stress 489 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,640 disorder. So like like panic attacks 490 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,080 pretty much continuously. And it's not, it's not, it's not 491 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:41,600 useful for a career or anything. So I, I'm glad you were so bad 492 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:42,760 that I can actually read and write. 493 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,440 It was that intense. So I got into documentary 494 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,080 filmmaking because it was a skill set that I could use 495 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,720 whilst I was getting everything back. 496 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,480 And I was living in South London with my parents. 497 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,560 I love my parents are taking care of me for Jenny because 498 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,120 they must have been terrified, but I was. 499 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,320 I travelled from South London to north London for about two hours 500 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:10,480 to go to a queer camera training camp and that was Rainbow Films. 501 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,080 Shout out to Blaze. He runs that. 502 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,200 It's still going ahead and through learning how to use a 503 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,920 camera. I was part of the Pride and 504 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,040 protest documentary. I was a camera person on Pride 505 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,320 and protest documentary also. So I was using a boom. 506 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,840 It's like this photos of me super skinny with my boom stick. 507 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:31,080 And it was actually Blaze, he said. 508 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,640 Rico, you're really good at speaking because this is where 509 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,000 the self belief comes in. This is why it's so important to 510 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,200 find community because the community will see the potential 511 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,720 in you before you see it in yourself. 512 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,840 I think that's really, really important. 513 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,600 And Blaze said to me, you know a lot about history. 514 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,280 You knew very, very good at public speaking. 515 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,720 And it was Blaze that forced me to report live at the Black 516 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,600 Lives Matter protests. It was like, you know, all the 517 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,360 history, off you go. So I was there like, what do I 518 00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:59,400 say? Just say what's behind you? 519 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,120 And I love Blaze for that moment because it was from that that a 520 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,400 anti racism radio show saw me and they asked me to be the host 521 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,640 for that. I it was from that that 522 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,800 transactional saw me. And then I ended up on the as a 523 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,240 director of the board for that. And then from that I ended up 524 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,320 working of LG consulting that I'm now on the border. 525 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,960 So it's people seeing the potential in you and then 526 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,160 basically going for it. But I would say I got into 527 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,240 activism because I didn't like the way that my community was 528 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,480 being treated, and I still don't. 529 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,120 I think there's a certain level of self belief that then leads 530 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:36,520 to self respect, which then leads to boundaries. 531 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,120 And I feel as if on a daily basis, our boundaries are being 532 00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:43,480 crossed and we are not being, people are not respecting us. 533 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,720 I respect you, you respect me. It's very simple. 534 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,960 So I think it's that determination that kind of got 535 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,200 me into it. Yeah. 536 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,120 Yeah, that's an amazing story, and yeah, it's an incredible 537 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,000 journey to have gone on. And one of the things that comes 538 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,080 up, and you've kind of brought up there in your response, it 539 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,240 comes up a lot on this podcast, is this idea of 540 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,720 intersectionality, that we all have multiple facets of who we 541 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,400 are as people. How do you think your experience 542 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,080 as a Black trans man has shaped how you navigate the world 543 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:19,320 today? I would say being black in this 544 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,760 country is different because you have your own culture. 545 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,240 And I feel as if as a as a queer person, I didn't really, I 546 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:31,280 didn't really expect to find my partner in in the black 547 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,600 community because I expected to experience discrimination. 548 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,320 I expected to experience like not being accepted, not even 549 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:39,680 necessarily from the person itself. 550 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,360 Like I don't want to meet my partner's parents and them not 551 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,200 to understand me or to make me feel like I, I'm taking them 552 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,880 away la, la, la. Like, I like, I want my, my kids 553 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,600 to have their grandparents. Like I want, I want that, that 554 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,760 family to be there. And very interestingly, I 555 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,320 actually ended up accepting my black side more when I finally 556 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,560 found those black queer spaces. But being part of the diaspora 557 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,080 in the UK, you know, like someone will make references to 558 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,680 TV shows in in the white community he hadn't even seen. 559 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,920 Like they'll make a joke and they'll be like, I don't know 560 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,640 who the hell that is. Like, well, they look at you 561 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,200 like, how do you not know that? I was like, I don't know. 562 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:19,480 Do you know Vybz karts? How? 563 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:24,040 Like what? Like you don't really sit fully 564 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,000 and even say, I think when I go back to Jamaica, I'm British. 565 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,120 You know what I'm saying? So you are, I think someone 566 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,400 spread it to me as a Jamaican. You are perpetually nomadic. 567 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,080 We are almost like a nomadic community. 568 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:42,320 We never quite find our home, but being black and trans, I 569 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,240 would say as a community, because black people tend to 570 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,680 have bigger stature, Black trans women, they tend to have bigger 571 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,400 stature. It's harder for them to be quote 572 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,880 unquote possible. So therefore they experience 573 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,880 discrimination by medical professionals because some 574 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,920 medical professionals say that I'm not going to help you unless 575 00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,640 I think you're not actually going to be possible, which is 576 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,240 diabolical. So there's that there's a 577 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:03,880 discrimination when you're out and about. 578 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,400 So black trans women is differently difficult. 579 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,200 Plus people don't think that you're intelligent just because 580 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,720 you're black. Me as a black man, I would say 581 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,560 possibility for being trans is actually easier because I've got 582 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,160 my dad's genes. My brother and my dad are very, 583 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,080 very bulky, muscular men. So I don't really need to go to 584 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,440 the gym. I just thought of landing like 585 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,440 this, which is OK. I know the bit that the Betty's 586 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,440 coming, but I know I need to get back to the gym. 587 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,720 But when it comes to just general muscle mass, you know, 588 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,360 I'm blessed in that sense. So black, black trans men, we 589 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,920 tend to be quite possible. But being a black man in the UK, 590 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,120 wow, I didn't expect it to be this bad. 591 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,160 It's, it's something, it's definitely something. 592 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,520 There was this point where I saw I was in the crowd and I saw 593 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,960 this guy selling drugs to some kids. 594 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,160 So I said to the security guard, do you know that guy over there 595 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,640 selling drugs? And it said to me, what am I 596 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,000 going to do about it? I was like, seriously, what are 597 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,080 you going to do about it? Wild. 598 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,600 Your job. But he was going to kick me out 599 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,040 because I reported it since you do rise to when you report 600 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:11,920 something that I'm going to have to do something about it. 601 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,840 And when you make accusations, you need to make sure that 602 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,280 they're true, such as a slice is wild. 603 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,040 That's. Crazy. 604 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,600 I'll go to supermarkets and the moment I walk in, there's 605 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,600 someone following me around. I've got to the point where I 606 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,240 say hello to them, but I can see you. 607 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,880 But you think I don't know you were there. 608 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:37,320 I know you were there. So yeah, I feel as if it 609 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:43,280 definitely is a different world. But being a man, male privilege 610 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,440 is 100 of the thing. But before walking around, I 611 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,120 used to wear heels and dresses like you would have to, people 612 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,480 would just stare at you just because you looked attractive. 613 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,600 I mean, you know, I wasn't bad looking. 614 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,040 So you know, you'll just you'll, you'd wear an outfit and people 615 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,440 would assume that you did that for the male gates. 616 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,840 Like, no, I did this for myself. I didn't do it. 617 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,400 So like random old dude would leer at me the entire bus 618 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:08,720 journey. Like, you know, it's, it's 619 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,440 inappropriate. It's incredibly inappropriate. 620 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,480 Like if I was going to go home, if it gets past 30 now, I'd take 621 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,200 care of like you'd always make sure you know how you're going 622 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,960 to get home as a as a as a man, I could take buses home. 623 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,480 Good morning. I'm completely safe. 624 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,200 You know, no one bothers me. I mean, there is the risk that 625 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,320 if there is an altercation, someone will punch me. 626 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,360 But the, the risk for women out on the ballot is potentially 627 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,240 rape and death. Let's be realistic about it. 628 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,280 So it is a different world. So I think as a trans person, 629 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,880 you, you do kind of see the cross section of society. 630 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,800 You kind of see how everything's put together. 631 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,880 Oh, also male privilege. No one questions me anymore. 632 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,000 When it comes in meetings, I will say statistics and I will 633 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,320 say them because I know that they're true people. 634 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:52,840 Oh, my God. Yeah. 635 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:53,800 It's amazing. That's it. 636 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,280 As a woman, where do you get that statistic? 637 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,640 Who told you that? Who have you been talking to? 638 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,760 Or you'll be talking and someone will cut or talk over you in the 639 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,040 meeting to talk about something else. 640 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,600 Or someone will repeat what you just said and the same was their 641 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,160 idea. I was like, are we in the same 642 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,680 meeting? Yeah, it's definitely a thing. 643 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,560 And it's incredibly frustrating. So whenever I I speak on panels, 644 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,880 I always give Koreans, I give voice to women in the room and 645 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,120 say, listen like people. It's true. 646 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,040 Male privilege does exist. And let people gas like you. 647 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,760 It does exist. So it's a funny old world. 648 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,600 Yeah, and a scary world, to be fair, like, given everything 649 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,120 you've just covered off. And it's getting scarier in so 650 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,520 many ways. Obviously, earlier this year we 651 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:42,680 had the UK Supreme Court ruling. And I think for many in the 652 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,760 trans community and in the wider LGBTQ personal community, it 653 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,240 just kind of felt like a gut punch. 654 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,440 We saw it coming, the way it transpired. 655 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,000 How did that land with you and what do you think it says about 656 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,240 where the UK is heading in terms of kind of trans rights in 657 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:05,040 general? How lamps, it's just been a 658 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:11,320 continuous onslaught. So I'm on the board of a 659 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,159 charity, infrastructure charity. So we have around about 500 660 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:16,600 members. So we know exactly what's 661 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,000 happening. Needs for charities, we try and 662 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,040 help them. So from that perspective, I hear 663 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,639 about it. Also, I'm an advisor at 664 00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:26,639 Transport at Alliance that goes to Parliament, educate MPs. 665 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:34,000 A lot of these resources that are led to activism, some of 666 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,760 them are funded, most of them are on in addition to day jobs. 667 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,480 You know, the number of activists that I meet is a 668 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,679 fight. I used to have a nine to five, 669 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,920 but I ended up having to, had to, I ended up like losing my 670 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,600 job because this has to happen. So a lot of people in the trans 671 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,840 community, we're doing this because we, we refuse to let it 672 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,920 go. But the problem is, is that 673 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,200 there's a new announcement literally every month. 674 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,320 There's there's something happening every month and a lot 675 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,520 of us either get burnt out or feel as if we're putting our 676 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,440 lives and our careers on hold. So in addition to there being 677 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,920 like a five year way from this to just get the first 678 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,800 appointment, it is a trans person. 679 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,920 So a lot of us end up like funding our own transaction. 680 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,200 I found in my own transition maybe from public speaking and 681 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,040 doing videography. So that's kind of how I managed 682 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,760 to, to figure it out. But, you know, the hostel was 683 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:29,640 real and trigger warning, caution, warning, people aren't 684 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,600 making it. And you know, not that you think 685 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,520 of a certain specific demographic that's going to 686 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:39,640 potentially take their lives, but these are people that are 687 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,680 running organisations. You know, there was someone that 688 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,320 was like he, like they knew everyone in the scene. 689 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,760 They were always organising events like supporting people, 690 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,040 shouting people out. There was someone that was 691 00:35:54,040 --> 00:36:00,760 running a, a trans house, you know, like voguing houses, 692 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:01,520 etcetera. Yeah. 693 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,240 Black trans women running a house, someone else, the first 694 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:09,520 trans person to go to Cambridge, I think black trans person to go 695 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,320 to Cambridge ran an online free university. 696 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,760 So I'm saying these are people that are incredibly talented, 697 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,560 incredibly impressive, and they just. 698 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,320 Yeah, so I feel as if people don't realise that after every 699 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,560 single announcement, we all check up on each other. 700 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:28,960 Are you OK? How you think? 701 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,360 Anything you need? But it is like a relentless 702 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,360 onslaught. So to get into the Supreme Court 703 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,320 ruling. So I'm probably not going to 704 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,320 name it because I don't think my insurance will stretch that far. 705 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:46,600 Actually, it's quite publicised. So JK Rowling, along with the 706 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:52,320 Supreme Court judge decided to I'd review the Equality Act to 707 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,600 say that trans women are not women. 708 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,080 Now people tend to think that that only impacts bottoms. 709 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,280 That's not the case. The Equality Act extends to 710 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,440 pretty much all walks of life, all organisations, all single 711 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,760 sex spaces. So me as a black trans guy 712 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,640 couldn't go to a all men's choir. 713 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,640 It means that I would have to be treated as a woman in all 714 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,080 spaces. So I yeah, bathrooms, yes, but 715 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,640 single sex changing rooms. I'm bearded. 716 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,640 I shouldn't be going to a woman's changing room. 717 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:26,560 It's ridiculous. That's why. 718 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,280 Because I really wish I missed the women's bathroom. 719 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,240 The men's bathroom smells terrible. 720 00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:33,520 It's gross. There's like pee everywhere. 721 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,080 No one talks. No one's like, Oh my God, how 722 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,280 was your day? Can I have people to borrow my 723 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,120 lip gloss? Like, none of that happens in 724 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,640 the men's bathroom. It's very, very homophobic in 725 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,880 there. It's like look, keep your eyes 726 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,200 down, pee, don't look at my Dick, and walk. 727 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,040 Out. Yeah, yeah. 728 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,280 Yeah, exactly. There's no how are you comadre 729 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,680 etcetera. Like the men's bathroom is wild 730 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:59,720 in my in my interesting. So yeah, they want to throw me 731 00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:02,600 back into the women's. Yes, I'm having a great time. 732 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,560 So the precourt room is is incredibly damaging. 733 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,520 A lot of people are potentially going to flee the country 734 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:17,040 because of the discrimination. Yeah, I, I, I, I'm I'm at wit's 735 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,720 end with this current government. 736 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,480 I'm totally on this year. Keir Starmer not necessarily 737 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,040 knowing what a a genocide is, not necessarily knowing trans 738 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,320 women. As a women, we've always 739 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,880 existed. Explore Transhistory Week to 740 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,440 understand that in its depth. But another thing about the 741 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,160 Supreme Court ruling is they didn't actually consult a single 742 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,280 no, the EHRC off the back of it didn't consult a single trans 743 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,400 person. It's crazy. 744 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,480 Also, the Supreme Court room didn't consult a single trans 745 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,560 person as well. Now, if I were to create laws 746 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,360 about black people without black people in the room, that would 747 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,640 be called segregation. If I were to create laws about 748 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,840 religious groups without single religious groups, like you'd 749 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,000 call it out straight away. It would never happen, yeah. 750 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,200 Exactly. Because people necessarily know 751 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,080 about our community, They used to think, OK, because we're not 752 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,240 familiar with them, so therefore they don't necessarily 753 00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:09,960 understand when segregation is actually happening. 754 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,680 But you know, there's been quite a few politicians that have said 755 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:18,360 that focusing on the trans debate is a very, very obvious 756 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,360 political tactic in order to create divisive vote and not 757 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,200 talk about things that are actually happening like Thames 758 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,080 Water putting sewage in our waterways. 759 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,000 The fact that there's cost living crisis, the fact that 760 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,240 there's a hyperinflation, the fact that the economy is in the 761 00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:37,280 dust, the fact that we're getting taxation from Europe. 762 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,360 You know, these are things that we really, really need to be 763 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,200 talking about, but we're not because we're focusing on trans. 764 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,040 So I think people really need to wake up and realise that it's 765 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,160 not just trans people are going to be impacted. 766 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,360 If you look at the rollbacks in the USA, lot of this is some 767 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,880 evangelical Christians. Finally, it's coming through so 768 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,400 you can evangelical Christians who are a very, very well funded 769 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,640 group against people that are doing this in their free time as 770 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,280 well as trying to do their jobs, or trans people. 771 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,520 A lot of us don't have those dream jobs because we're still 772 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,760 transitioning. Who wants to go into a high 773 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,880 flying law firm and grow a beard? 774 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,200 It's difficult. We transition and then we start 775 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,800 our lives. So not having access to 776 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,520 hormones, we put our lives on hold and that has a massive 777 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,880 income impact on our income. And our, our, our ability to 778 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,480 fight back and, you know, be able to fund things and survive 779 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,160 the cost of living crisis. We're surviving everything else 780 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,880 in addition to this. So you've got evangelical 781 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,560 Christians against the trans community. 782 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:43,240 But yeah, I think, I think that this government, it's definitely 783 00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:46,160 missed a trick. I feel like more than half of 784 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,040 the community of the population are pro trans community. 785 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,160 Someone did like a study recently and what you were 786 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,960 seeing is click bait articles. So what's happening is no one's 787 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,080 buying newspapers anymore. I haven't bought a newspaper in 788 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,160 years. So reporters are realising they 789 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,720 have to have these alarmist headlines and trans people have 790 00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:09,840 amazing alarmist headlines. There's only been one court case 791 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,520 in this country of a trans person assaulting anyone in a 792 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,400 bathroom. One court case and that and then 793 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,280 only two of the entirety of the US. 794 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,240 So there's no, there's no credence, there's there's no 795 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,000 evidence behind this. It's pure discrimination. 796 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,560 And when you create laws which aren't based on facts, you just 797 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,840 create discrimination. So yeah, I think the Supreme 798 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,360 Court, EHSC ruling, the the head of the EHSC lost her job over 799 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:36,520 this. She's gone now. 800 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,760 So now we need to make sure that we vote, we get politicians to 801 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,680 vote on it. So trans Solidarity Lawrence is 802 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,040 doing some amazing work. They created the the largest 803 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,560 math lobby since Section 28. So give them a follow and you 804 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,400 know, get stuck in and also checking in your trans siblings 805 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,680 and your trans your trans family because they may be OK, but they 806 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,160 you know, everyone loves a good cover. 807 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,880 Yeah. And people, look, people think 808 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,320 this is just about bathrooms and changing rooms, which are 809 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:13,000 obviously important and critical that people are able to use the 810 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,880 correct bathroom. But it's actually about people's 811 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,720 lives, right? It's not just about, it's not 812 00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:19,720 about trans women competing in sport. 813 00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:22,320 It's about trans women being able to live their life. 814 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,560 Because to your point, so many people, when you back people 815 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,360 into a corner, they make decisions they can never come 816 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,640 back from. And that's horrific. 817 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,760 So we kind of, I talk about these kind of sports and 818 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,520 everything kind of in these gateway arguments. 819 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,800 But actually what you're talking about is people just wanting to 820 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:40,160 live their authentic lives. And I think it was so 821 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,760 interesting when that ruling happened. 822 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,840 There's this clip that was on social media. 823 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,800 I think you may have even been who shared it that I saw it of 824 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,680 an MP, I'm pretty sure Tory MP on TV and they were asked about 825 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:58,200 trans men you having to now use women's bathrooms and he kind of 826 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,480 genuinely seemed to have not figured out that trans men 827 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,400 exist. Like he literally thought this 828 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,840 was just about trans women. This wouldn't have any other 829 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,600 impact. How dangerous is it for people 830 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,920 in power, either politically, I guess in the media or just 831 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,680 having a voice, to be seemingly, and maybe you'll tell me this 832 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,320 isn't correct, but seemingly solely focused on trans women 833 00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:25,560 and kind of not paying attention to the rest of the community. 834 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,520 Is that how it feels? Is that fair? 835 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,760 No, no, there is. I'm sort of the case. 836 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:36,160 I think there is a little bit of sexism in the sense that trans 837 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,640 men are not seen as men. So therefore, I mean, we are 838 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,320 kind of cute and cuddly, to be fair. 839 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,360 But you know, it's the overall fear. 840 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:52,160 So I, I think with the trans women debate, I think that we 841 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,120 need to just, we need to give women credence the fact that 842 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,800 there is a rape culture. It is perpetuated. 843 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,520 People are reported. And when they are reported, they 844 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,720 hold up their underwear and said, oh, look, she was asking 845 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:04,640 for it because she had like fluffy underwear having to 846 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,240 happen in the US, like not fluffy, like Lacy underwear. 847 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,560 It's ridiculous. You know, it, it, it needs to be 848 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:17,840 discussed, but men do not have to wear a dress in order to 849 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:23,720 assault women because trans women are treated worse than 850 00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:27,840 Memphis in this country. So, you know, I mean, was it 851 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,320 Russell Brand assaulted the woman in the bathroom recently? 852 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,840 He wasn't dressed up as a woman. So it's an entirely different 853 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,960 discussion. And I I, I think we know we 854 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,000 really we have to give women who are being such resulted the 855 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,680 space to talk about it and they have to be protected. 856 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,560 I completely agree with that. But trans women and it's not 857 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:46,920 that they're probably more scared of you. 858 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,040 They're probably scared you're going to realise who they are 859 00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:54,280 and then kick them out the box. But I think that in the anti 860 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,760 trans debate, they I think it was on LBC. 861 00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:02,880 They'll say something like, oh, if they if, if a man just sort 862 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,680 of puts on a dress, you can just go into the bathroom. 863 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,480 No, no, that's not the case at all. 864 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,360 It's, it's, it's not, it's not, we're not drag Queens. 865 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,720 They're trans women. And if we really, really want to 866 00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:15,720 get to the point where they look at people's identification 867 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:18,560 documents, trans women, most of them will have M on their 868 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,920 passports. So there is a way to know 869 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,640 whether you have some sexual predator in the bathroom who's 870 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,120 just having a jolly and a trans woman because we have the 871 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,560 documentation. Most of them have the 872 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,520 documentation, not all of them. So, you know, I wouldn't want it 873 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,160 to be, you know, the new law. But it's possible. 874 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,720 As a trans man, I assigned female at birth. 875 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:42,320 If I go into the women's bathroom, as the Supreme Court 876 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,880 ruling would suggest, there's no way of distinguishing between me 877 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,680 and a sis because we both have men on the passports. 878 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,560 So unless I drop my drawers and for some trans guys, even that 879 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,760 was not going to help you, you're not going to know. 880 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,440 So that for me is very dangerous because it literally opens the 881 00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,480 doors to bearded men. Anyone can walk in. 882 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,640 And another side of that is if you have like, Butch lesbians, 883 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,680 you don't look feminine enough. It policies what women should be 884 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,240 and what women shouldn't, shouldn't be. 885 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:22,160 So yeah, a lot of lesbians have been, have been impacted by this 886 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:27,360 ruling, but I mean, it's not law now, so no one should be 887 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,600 implementing it. You can challenge it. 888 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,600 I would reach out to non binary barrister. 889 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,520 Sorry, I don't remember his name. 890 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,160 Non binary barrister on Instagram. 891 00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:40,040 He's doing amazing work and can pick up your case. 892 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,080 Also trans legal clinic run by Olivia. 893 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,040 So there, there is help, but no, it, it is ridiculous. 894 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,280 It's very divisive. I think because of the UK, we've 895 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,760 left Europe, yeah. So we're not part of that 896 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,800 trading embargo. We need to have allies, and I 897 00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,080 think the US is probably the closest one. 898 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,680 And Trump's number one thing on the agenda is transphobia. 899 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,920 Yeah, literally got into his inauguration speech like that's 900 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,720 it's crazy that you know that is. 901 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,840 And when you remember, remind yourselves that we are talking 902 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,280 about such a small percentage of the population that are just 903 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,640 trying to live their lives. And actually these rulings to 904 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:22,160 your point, it will be sis men. They're actually perpetrating 905 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,640 these crimes and, and, and doing these things. 906 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,040 So we're punishing the trans community for things that CIS 907 00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,960 men are going to do. And it just seems so backwards 908 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,400 and it just seems so scary and disheartening. 909 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,760 But I do want to try and get back to how this conversation 910 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:40,720 started, which was with hope and with joy. 911 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:45,960 Despite all that noise and all that kind of difficulty, as you 912 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,880 say, almost on a daily, weekly basis, there's a new headline. 913 00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:54,200 Are there moments or people that remind you that this fight is 914 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:58,000 worth it and there is still joy and hope out there? 915 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,760 Yes, there's one thing that I forgot from the previous 916 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,000 section, so I'll just quickly say it different. 917 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:10,440 Just to continue my Rad Kelly was on and she basically said, 918 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,280 Oh yeah, I got a an e-mail about a woman that was assaulted by a 919 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,880 CIS man in the toilet. So therefore something needs to 920 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:19,880 be done. She said CIS, she said CIS 921 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:21,920 woman. So she's basically getting 922 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,080 emails from women who are getting sexually assaulted and 923 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,360 she's thinking that says CIS, so let's attack some trans people. 924 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,640 It's just wild. It doesn't make any sense. 925 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,400 So there's no credence to it. But anyway, that to your 926 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,520 question about Joy, yes, yes, and hell yes. 927 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:42,040 Again, I would say there's camaraderie. 928 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,440 There's sober spaces like misery. 929 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,040 There's you can go on a mushroom walk. 930 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,120 You know, there's not a phase shout out, massive shout out to 931 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:56,160 not a phase free work, working out spaces for trans people. 932 00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,880 I think there's Manchester, Birmingham, also seen also in 933 00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:01,760 London. So you know, there's a lot of 934 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,800 safe spaces out there. We're we're really creating 935 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,640 them. There's also spaces like cafes, 936 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,720 like Gay is the word. You know you can get new 937 00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:11,360 literature if that's really your space also. 938 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:18,040 Oh I can't remember them now. The bookshop in Shoreditch. 939 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:26,440 Oh yeah, I'm not sure. There's a book, there's a 940 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,520 bookshop, there's a queer bookshop there in Shoreditch. 941 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,200 High Street Station. Go there as well. 942 00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,040 Yeah. They also have a lot of spaces 943 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:36,760 like like voguing and yeah. So, you know, there, there is 944 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,040 spaces there, but people tend to think that in trans spaces. 945 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,320 And we tend to talk about being trans. 946 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:46,000 We don't we we talk about our our newest hustle business 947 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,840 opportunity in order to, you know, make bank and keep going. 948 00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,960 And we talk about what we know. Like a friend of mine was 949 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,920 sending me videos about his new Victorian toilet that he's 950 00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,880 installed in his house. I was like, Oh my God, this is 951 00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,840 amazing. It's a flush system. 952 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,960 I've got another friend we got. We love dinosaurs. 953 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,520 We would go to dinosaur events together. 954 00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:08,360 You know, there, there there's joy in the community and 955 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,000 there's, there's potential, but then in the present moment 956 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,240 there's a lot of happiness. Yeah. 957 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,760 And to your point, they just, you know, everyone just wants to 958 00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,720 live their life. Like actually we, we would much 959 00:50:18,720 --> 00:50:21,520 rather not have to talk about this all the time, every day, 960 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,560 every kind of put so much effort into this. 961 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:25,640 People just want to live their lives and they want to live 962 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,200 their lives happily and in a fulfilling way. 963 00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,160 That's true. I, I feel as if a lot of our 964 00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:38,240 community, we have picked the the to be honest and authentic 965 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,680 over a nine to five court cardboard box roll. 966 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,480 And if we do go to blind 5 cobbler form, we're very, very 967 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,800 careful which ones that we pick. And because of that, all of us 968 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,080 are very, we're natural hustlers, we're natural 969 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,720 entrepreneurs. And even if we don't start that 970 00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:57,320 way, I have massive social anxiety. 971 00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:00,840 I've done speeches on stage, like I have really bad social 972 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,000 anxiety. Because when you're part of the 973 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,680 community and you're doing it for the 'cause it's almost as if 974 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,320 what you're doing transcends what you're currently going 975 00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,280 through. And what I contribute as a 976 00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,320 public speaker, that's my skill set. 977 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,000 That's how I contribute to my trans community. 978 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,400 Whereas other people can write policy documents, I can write 979 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:21,640 policy documents to save my life. 980 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,880 I also find it really boring. So everyone has different spaces 981 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,440 or different skill sets that they can offer to the community. 982 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,960 And I was talking to someone and they're just like, oh, you know, 983 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,920 I I am actually this person runs a whole pride and hello Kimmy is 984 00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:36,320 like, oh, I just feel like I'm not doing enough. 985 00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,120 I'm like, like, girl, you want a prize? 986 00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:41,880 Like you're doing a lot. It's like, yeah, but I could be 987 00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:43,320 doing more. I was just like, no, no, there's 988 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,880 a lot of people. And if you need to take this, 989 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,840 this the self-care to take a step back, please do that 990 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,280 because we're like we're we're like a symbiotic Organism. 991 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,720 If you take a step back, other people will step forward. 992 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,000 So when I see those up and coming young activists that like 993 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,840 Ella Morgan killing him, perhaps you'll be killing it. 994 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:05,320 About 2-3 years ago, I didn't so know who she wasn't, but now 995 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,240 she's on the front line and I love that for her because I'm 996 00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:11,800 tired. So when people take a step 997 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,520 forward, like absolutely brilliant, you know? 998 00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,960 So yeah, we, we've got this as a community when it comes to 999 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,160 activism. We've got this also for our safe 1000 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,160 spaces and we've got this for joy also. 1001 00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,000 I'll shout out the LG Consortium, they're an 1002 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:26,680 infrastructure charity that I'm on the board of. 1003 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,240 If you do have an amazing, ideal project, please come to us. 1004 00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:33,880 When it comes to setting up the actual organisation itself, like 1005 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,560 writing grant applications. We've also got grant funding 1006 00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:39,280 within the organisation that we do distribute. 1007 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,680 There's an independent panel, so I can't help you with that, but 1008 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,520 100% recharge LG Consortium organisations. 1009 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:49,000 Like Not a Phase. Oh, can't think of the other 1010 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,160 ones now. Trans Solidarity Alliance, these 1011 00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,960 organisations that I introduced to LG Consortium at their 1012 00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:56,440 infancy, before they even were a thing. 1013 00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,080 Oh, also Transhistory Week and look at them now. 1014 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,720 So don't think the people that are doing amazing things out 1015 00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:04,880 there that you can't be that person 100%. 1016 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,440 All it takes is some support and a camaraderie from your 1017 00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:09,920 community and you'll be out there. 1018 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,200 You'll be out there living what you want to do, how you want to 1019 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:13,160 compute. So yeah. 1020 00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:16,720 I think it's amazing and I'm going to include as many links 1021 00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:19,160 as possible in the description of this podcast that people can 1022 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,720 check out all these incredible organisations because they are 1023 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:24,240 amazing. And obviously we started this 1024 00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:29,280 conversation talking about a young Rico, so let's revisit 1025 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,800 him. What advice would you give to 1026 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,040 your younger self if you could? And would it be different if I 1027 00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:40,440 said, what advice would you give to an LGBTQ plus person today? 1028 00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:47,520 I think it would be similar. I think I would say don't be so 1029 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,640 scared. I think that's it. 1030 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,840 I think there's a lot of things that I didn't know the answer to 1031 00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,560 and that kind of scared me. Like questions like what do you 1032 00:53:58,560 --> 00:53:59,600 want to do for the rest of your life? 1033 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:04,480 Like, I don't know, I can barely pick breakfast, you know what I 1034 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:05,880 mean? I don't know. 1035 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,880 I don't know who I am. So how I meant to know what I 1036 00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:14,560 want to do for the rest of my life and also like things that 1037 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:18,160 bother teenagers, like if oh, if I set a boundary with that 1038 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,360 friend, will I lose them? And I know there's already 1039 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,760 conscious. I said earlier, like sometimes I 1040 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,400 was good at it, but sometimes it will take time. 1041 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,840 It took me a lot of time to be like, no, this is not what I 1042 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:29,640 want. Or I don't like the way that you 1043 00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,720 speak to me. So even though I got there, I 1044 00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:35,840 get there a lot quicker now. Like at the end of the 1045 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:37,720 conversation, it's like I'll never speak to you again. 1046 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,480 In my head, I'm like, I don't think it again, like I'm done. 1047 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:49,000 Because I now know that if I close one door, I will open five 1048 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,960 or six others. And I love going out and meeting 1049 00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,720 people. Sometimes I meet people and they 1050 00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:56,280 say, Oh my God, you're horrible. But I'm like, Oh my God, you're 1051 00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,120 amazing. And I get so excited when I meet 1052 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,720 you people because they tell me their part, what they've been up 1053 00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:03,720 to. And I get, I get so happy. 1054 00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:05,320 And I'm like, wow, that's incredible. 1055 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,160 And I'd be like, oh, but have you spoken to this person? 1056 00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,640 Have you spoken to that person? You need to speak to this 1057 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,360 person. I, your friends are the people 1058 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,560 that mention your name in the room full of opportunities. 1059 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,240 And when you surround yourself with people like that, it just 1060 00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:21,480 changes the game. And you just you, you flourish. 1061 00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,280 And the moments where you lose sight of who you are as an 1062 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,120 individual, other people will remind you. 1063 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,200 They'll hold up the mirror and say, remember, you did this. 1064 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:30,440 And I'd be like, oh, yeah, I didn't do that. 1065 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,040 That was you. You need people like that in 1066 00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,720 your life. So yeah, I'll say fine. 1067 00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:42,920 The community advice to LGBT youth, I would say don't listen 1068 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:47,440 to the media, don't listen to what politicians are saying 1069 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:51,440 because you know when you're in a kid, you're a kid at school 1070 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,920 and people tell you don't say things unless it's true or 1071 00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:59,720 whether it's kind. Adults have forgotten that. 1072 00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:03,040 Being an adult when you realise that it's still a big playground 1073 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:07,040 and people have less integrity as adults that when they did it 1074 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:11,560 has kids. So listen to your parents. 1075 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,440 If they are being supportive for you that they're telling you 1076 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,120 that you know that the community is there. 1077 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,360 Find mermaids, find those queer spaces and listen to those day 1078 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:22,840 spaces. Don't listen to the masses. 1079 00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:24,200 That's all the adults are here for. 1080 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,400 The adults are here to fight for the masses. 1081 00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:32,360 You stay, you enjoy your childhood and there is a huge 1082 00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,600 price to being an activist on the front line. 1083 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,600 So I know if I post something I'm going to get, I hate people 1084 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,920 comments, the end of my post, That's what's going to happen. 1085 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:45,000 But that's an adult situation. As a child, you need to focus on 1086 00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:46,760 your education. You need to focus on making 1087 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,560 friends. You need to focus on when you do 1088 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:49,920 the rest of your life. And then that's absolutely 1089 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:51,440 terrifying. That's what kids need to be 1090 00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,240 focusing on. Leave the politics of the 1091 00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:55,200 adults. Enjoy your childhoods because 1092 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,920 you only get it once. Couldn't agree, Couldn't agree 1093 00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,840 more. And there was this theme that's 1094 00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,640 come out throughout this conversation I felt, which is 1095 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,160 this real sense of the importance of building other 1096 00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,560 people up, celebrating other people's successes rather than 1097 00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:11,880 trying to turn them down, and just the real sense of 1098 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,080 community. And that's kind of what I wanted 1099 00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:17,280 this podcast to be about, is trying to spotlight incredible 1100 00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,320 queer people doing amazing things that people can see, 1101 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,680 people like themselves living happy, fruitful lives. 1102 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:30,320 So who in your network would you want to hear on this podcast? 1103 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,760 And what one question would you want me to ask them? 1104 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:43,320 Oh, see that? That's a difficult question. 1105 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,360 And the reason being is that there's so many people that I 1106 00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:56,000 love listening to. Yeah, I would say I'll probably 1107 00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:00,960 shout out my mate, actually John Paul, Managing Director at WE 1108 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:02,760 Createspace. He's doing a lot of like 1109 00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,400 corporate engagement that I've seen. 1110 00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,600 WE Createspace from the start, it was run by someone called 1111 00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:13,080 Michael and someone else called Malus, but John Paul was really 1112 00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:17,640 like creating safe spaces where people can have meditation. 1113 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,120 Also queer joy incorporations, which is kind of what's on the 1114 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:26,040 hurdle. A couple years ago, I would say 1115 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,120 I would want you to ask him like what's next? 1116 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,200 Because you've created this amazing space. 1117 00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:36,320 So how, how would you take it to the next stage? 1118 00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,560 Like what, what, what's the, what's the dream? 1119 00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,440 I think that's the dream. Because I think in organisations 1120 00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,720 you always see what they're currently doing. 1121 00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:50,360 But a, a good, a good CEO, someone who's at the helm always 1122 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:52,320 has a vision. And I kind of want to see what 1123 00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:56,960 their vision is because I'm, I'm, I'm mind bogglingly 1124 00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:58,720 impressed by what they've done so far. 1125 00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,040 Yeah. I love that. 1126 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,720 Yeah, we will reach out to him, try and get him on the podcast. 1127 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,480 They sound amazing. And I will definitely ask them 1128 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:08,040 what is the dream, what's the vision? 1129 00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,640 And we will get them on Rigo, thank you so much for being on 1130 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,160 Queer Talker with me today. As I said at the start, you were 1131 00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,640 one of the first people on the list of people I wanted on this 1132 00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:21,120 podcast because I'm just so inspired by the work you do and 1133 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,880 all the incredible activism and just support you give to the 1134 00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,560 entire community. So thank you so much for 1135 00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:30,640 everything you do and thank you so much for being on Quit Talker 1136 00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:33,400 with me today. Thank you. 1137 00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:38,120 I feel as if I did what I needed to do, when it needed to get 1138 00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,640 done. But when as I say, thank you for 1139 00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:43,880 reminding me because sometimes there's days where even I 1140 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,920 forget. So thank you. 1141 00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,080 And I always say sometimes feel as if I am not doing enough. 1142 00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:52,320 Someone's saying that. I really appreciate that. 1143 00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:54,720 But thank you for having me. I love fun. 1144 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:56,040 I forgot. I want to look. 1145 00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:57,200 Vodka. This is great. 1146 00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,760 Yeah. Honestly, you're an absolute 1147 01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,640 legend. Keep doing what you're doing. 1148 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,040 And thank you for giving space for authentic voices because, 1149 01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:08,880 yeah, this has been a lot of fun. 1150 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:10,040 Appreciate