My colleague Blake was like, oh, my God, she's so fit.
And I said, I heard myself say to him, yeah, And her perfume
smells divine. And I remember thinking, it's
probably time to come out. If you think about something
like stand up comedy, going out into a room full of like 200
drunk, rowdy people on a Saturday night at the Comedy
Store and I'm there as like a little 23 year old going, you
need to listen to my story. Oh, I've actually got a little
bone to pick with Mark Bittlestone.
Yes. And you, because I thought how
lovely, how lovely that he's nominated me.
I might go and have a watch of his episode, see what he says
about me. Well, Oh my, I know you're going
to click that up. That's the cliffhanger at the
end of the trailer. God's sake.
Hello and welcome back to the Queerest podcast telling the
fiercest stories. This is queer talker and I'm Ben
Cechetti. Before we get to my conversation
with the incredible and the hilarious leap hit, I've got a
very quick favour to ask. Wherever you're watching or
listening to this episode, hit that subscribe button.
It's one click and it's going to make a massive difference.
It's going to let me to grow this podcast and it's going to
bring you the best and the queerest episodes every single
time. So in advance, thank you.
Now to my conversation with Lee Lee, as always, we are starting
with our queer panic rapid fire questions.
You just respond with the first thing that comes to mind
starting OK. What was the first album you
ever owned? You're not going to believe me,
but I'm pretty sure it was The Offspring.
I was, yeah, I was going through some hours.
I'm going to be like an e-mail. I'm going to be like.
And so it was. It's not my brand at all, but
I'm pretty sure I bought that album from HMV.
Nice the pretty fly for a white guy era.
Yeah, original prankster. What's the other one?
There's one that I really like. I might go listen to it after
this actually. There we go, reignite.
That yeah, you would never have guessed the offspring, but that
was that was it. It's the first thing they've the
first time they've come up on this.
It's normally like Spice Girls or something like that.
The offspring. Is well, what can I say, I'm
mad. If you had to lip sync for your
life, what song would you choose?
I will say this, I, I, my friends think I'm very odd
because I have this weird thing where I can remember lyrics like
it's, yeah, it's probably a form of something.
But I, I, so I can lip sync to a lot of things.
But if I had to choose, I'd probably, I would be definitely,
probably an Adele song. It would probably be like
rolling in the D or Someone Like You or Skyfall or melt my heart
to stone or when we were young or take it all or Easy on me,
you know, the list goes on. It would be epic.
It would be epic, yeah. Or I would, yeah.
Maybe something like if it was a bit more musical theatre, maybe
something like She Used to Be Mine from Waitress.
Love that song. Great choice, great choice.
OK well I have a playlist on Spotify so I get to add those.
I'm going to pick my favourite of your Adele choices and then
I'll waitress them as well. What is your favourite queer
movie or TV show? Well, I was thinking about this
and I, I don't know if it's kind of classed as a queer show,
although I personally think it is now because it was embraced
by a lot of the gays. I'm going to say the comeback
with Lisa Kudrow and it's become a kind of cult classic.
And I actually feel like I because I watched the comeback
when it first came out, which I think was in like 2005.
I want to say it's just after friends had finished.
And I remember being like 15 at the time, absolutely loving the
show. I thought it was the funniest
thing I'd ever seen. And no one really understood it
and got it at the time. And then years later, it became
a bit of a cult. And I remember being like, I was
there from the start. So the comeback, I think that
also would be my mastermind question if I was ever going to
go on Mastermind, Yeah. I wish I had known that because
I would like throw out a bunch of questions on it.
Oh gosh, I'm glad that you didn't.
Who is your ultimate queer icon? Probably Icon's a bit of a weird
word for him, but probably someone like Matthew Shepard.
And you know, the play like the Laramie Project was all inspired
and he would tragically murdered years ago.
And he was the guy for people who don't know, they tied him to
a fence in Wyoming and he's kind of his, his, his murder
basically sparked a, a kind of ripple effect across the world
and people started to and it, you know, it really helped push
I think gay rights and the way people just treat and see gay
people. So Matthew Shepard or even his
mum who's got odd name, name escapes me now, but Judy, I
think Judy Shepard and he, she set up the Matthew Shepard
Foundation. So someone like him, I would
say. I love that.
That's a great choice. You are obviously also a
podcaster. You host a podcast to demystify
wine slash give us all an excuse to drink more wine.
So what is your go to? White, red or rose?
I just think that's such an impossible question because I
need to know where I am, the setting, the scenario.
You know, if it's a scorching hot day, I'm probably not going
to have a like a glass of Malbec.
So but I will try and answer it. And if I have to whittle one
down, I I've at the minute I'm feeling a red.
I'm really feeling a red. So I'd probably go for yeah, a
Malbec or a Pinot noir. But like, again, if it's nice
and sunny, we're talking a nice pale rose.
If I'm out with friends having dinner, probably a white.
But yeah, at the minute I think if I really had to choose, I'd
have red. Yeah, there's something about
like the winter months is when I tend to drink red.
Like it just comes and suddenly I just switch so.
Yeah, but I have. And one thing that the podcast
has taught me is that I have got, you know, Pinot noir I
never really used to have, but because it's so much lighter, I
actually have now been having that more in light.
If it's in the daytime, gosh, I have that in the day.
It's fine. Yeah.
It's a nice morning beverage
because, you know, I used to be like, oh, red puts me to sleep,
but actually it was because I was drinking heavy Reds.
So yeah. And that's what the, that's what
the podcast has taught me. I can drink whenever I like.
Please drink responsibly. This is coffee.
This is coffee from the mug. Imagine if you could just see
red wine in this mug. Shout out to Mark Bittlestone
who nominated you to be on this podcast.
So now it's your turn who has won.
Well, I've actually got a little bone to pick with Mark
Bittlestone. Yes, and you, because I thought
how lovely, how lovely that he's nominated me.
I might go and have a watch of his episode, see what he says
about me. Well, now I realise it's all a
ruse to get Alan Carr on the podcast.
I'm basically Sunita at this point, aren't I?
Shocking, shocking. I text Mark, I said well thanks
for the nomination, Mark. I said he might get Alan, so I'm
not going to nominate Alan out of spite that.
Is totally fair. That is totally.
Fair. So I have to nominate a gay
comedian, a queer comedian, queer anything.
I'm queer. Anything I'm going to nominate,
I'm going to know. I'm going to stick to the
comedians. I'm going to nominate Morgan
Reese. Have you had him?
On I haven't, no. Really nice guy, very good
comic. Yeah.
Nominate Morgan Reese because he might be able to get you Jade
Adams. This is what This is what I was
like as I was watching it. I was like smiling.
I was like. And then I was like, okay, okay,
I'm getting so many, honestly. Like I get so many like hi Lee,
could you ask Alan if he fancies in this?
I'm like, he does have an agent and it is not me.
I'm like, please just be aware of this.
But yes, no, I'll, I'll nominate and I love Mark Bittlestone.
I'll, I'll nominate Morgan Reese.
Great comedian, great guy. OK, and then finally, what is
one word you would use to describe your childhood?
Playful. OK, I like playful.
I like that. And we can die.
Vivid imagination. OK, OK.
Because you know, long term listeners know that I have this
theory that to understand an LGBTQ plus person as an adult,
you do have to understand them as a young person 1st.
And because you say playful, you say imagination.
What should I know about you as a child or a teenager to
understand the lead that sits in front of me today?
Well, I was always obsessed with magic, so I loved anything
magical. I was obsessed with Mary
Poppins. So like people in primary
school, people would be like Lee and I'd be like, please call me
Mary like I would I was obsessed with.
But the reason is I wanted, I think I wanted to fly.
So I always remember like I used to my mum and dad had this like
built in barbecue in the back garden.
I used to jump off that thinking I was like Peter Pan or, or I
like broomsticks. And then I think I just felt
like Mary Poppins was as close to being able to and the
umbrella. So I was obsessed with like
umbrellas. My mum apparently once didn't
let me buy this umbrella at a car boot sale that looked
exactly like the Mary Poppins one.
And apparently I bawled my eyes out that the woman and the car
boot sale was like, he can have it for free.
She's causing a scene. Really good tip if you're ever
at a car boot sale and you want something for free if you don't
want to spend that 50P. And so, yeah, I was always kind
of into magic. I think I remember my teacher in
primary school making me a magic wand.
I was like, anything magical. Disney loved all that.
Like, you know, Sleeping Beauty, loved the three good fairies,
was obsessed with them. I was just obsessed with magic,
like, and then like as a teenager, I loved Charmed Again
magic. I love Sabrina the Teenage Witch
the worst way. Anything to do with magic.
I was in, I was totally in. And then as a teenager, I kind
of, you know, I started to get into drama and stuff and then I
started to kind of make people laugh and remember like doing
acting little skits and drama club and and, you know, people
laughing at it at the school thing.
And I started to kind of get get confidence with that.
So that, yeah, that that as a teenager.
But I was also head boy at school.
So I had I had different personas.
I used to kind of like probably switch between personas.
So sometimes it will be like the kind of silly class clown and
then other times it will be like, how dare you speak to me
mere mortals like, And I remember as like I was, I've
said this story before, but as head boy, I was, I was corrupt.
I was like, I was a totally mad, mad on power.
It's probably the power thing. I couldn't have it with magic.
So I want, it's like power in a different kind of sense.
So, you know, I was, I was like, I used to start calling the
teachers by the first names. You know, I was 15 years old and
I loved you. I know.
Well, do you know what, though, And this isn't delusional.
They kind of did. But it was kind of that like
they kind of like did enjoy me because I think I was always in
kind of a character. But then at times were like,
what is going on? Because I just used to saunter
around. I used to like, walk around in
break around the corridors with a mug of hot chocolate and I'd
be like morning Joan and people will be like what it was.
It was weird. I mean, it was weird, but it was
I was kind of liked. I was never really disliked at
school. I was never like massively
popular, but I wasn't all I was. You said at the time I wasn't
one of the geeks and so I was kind of in between and then like
the popular kids kind of liked me.
So sometimes I hang out with them if fancied it or the times
not. So I was yeah, I was always.
I just I do remember being liked.
I don't like not everyone liked me.
I'm not like delusional. I was like I was the most
popular kid in school. But I remember like it not
massively being a hard time really.
And you mentioned kind of switching, almost switching
personas and switching kind of the the character quote unquote
that you were playing. Do you think that was from an
entertainment perspective and that was kind of the entertainer
and you or do you think that was a protectiveness and you were
hiding the real lead behind kind of those those?
Personas I think it's probably more the laughter, but yeah, I
think it was a bit of both. But yeah, there was definitely
weird person like there was yeah.
I, I, it took me a while to realise like which kind of
persona I was and it would change depending on the
environment. But I still think I do that to a
weird way, like not change who I am, but you adapt.
I always remember from an early age I used to be able to tell
very quickly what made different people laugh.
So like, you know, for example, Annabelle might like silly
humour, but Holly might like dry humour or like, and I, I still
think I do that with new people where I'm like, the minute I
kind of know what makes them laugh or what kind of style of
comedy they have, I'll, I'll adapt it to them.
So maybe it was just that form of where it was like, you know,
who, who am I talking to in this situation?
And yeah, a bit of a bit of like a bit like a chameleon type
thing, I guess. Yeah.
But yeah, it was definitely some sort of like I was at one point
as a head boy, I felt like a dictator.
And I've always said, you know, for dictators, it's probably
quite fun for them. You know, it's the people around
them that suffer. But I was having a great time.
I look at these. I know.
Well, I know. No, this is the thing.
I now don't volunteer for power because it can very quickly
consume me. I'm quite, I'm quite aware of
it. I think it's a healthy thing to
be like, you know, but I sometimes look at these
dictators and I think I get it. I get it.
Oh my, I know you're going to click that up.
I look at these dictators and I just think, yes, I I understand.
That's the class that's got the trailer.
God's sake. But I mean, if you take yourself
back to that time, do you remember the first like, LGBTQ
plus person you became aware of either in real life or through
media and how that kind of made you feel in yourself?
I remember he there weren't an LGBTQ plus person, but I
remember a bit of a gay awakening I think was Seth Cohen
from the OC played by Adam Brody.
I remember like really fancying him and really loving his
clothes. I think probably the main one I
remember distinctly like late as a teenager, staying up late
watching Graham Norton, like so Graham Norton.
When do you remember when Graham Norton was the most audacious,
filthy, like, gay man? And now he's, like, quite
mainstream. And.
But I remember seeing an interview with him recently
where he was like, I have to stop being that because when you
are in your 50s, you know, bringing out dildos and stuff,
it is a bit like. And I thought, oh, yeah, that's
actually a really good point. But I remember back in the day
when, you know, Graham must have been my age and, you know, he
had that audacious, like, filthy but brilliant chat show on
Channel 4. I think that was probably the
first time where I was like, oh, OK, interesting.
Yeah, it will. I think it would be Graham
Norton. And then, like, Will and Grace
was a massive, massive thing. Like, I absolutely adore Will
and Grace. And I think that was a huge
thing. I remember actually, like, my
mum laughing a lot at Jack from Will and Grace.
And I was thinking, oh, maybe it's not so bad.
Do you know what I mean? Like maybe it's OK.
That is important. Those sorts of shows that kind
of give people that Ave to have people around you.
I think they talk about that a lot, right?
I remember when Heartstopper came out, there was a lot of
people who watched it with their parents to see how their parents
might react to certain components of it.
So I do get that totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I remember I didn't see the really other series of heart
stoppers because there's been like four or five now, hasn't
there? But yeah, I remember the first
one, but I kind of watched it as a bit of a bitter man where I
was like, of course they're having a lovely time, of course
they're not getting beaten up. It was a thing.
There was a lot of people like I'm approaching 40 this year.
A lot of people like my generation where it was like
there was that slight bitterness to it.
There was that feeling of loss of like, oh, we didn't get to
experience that. Like we.
Yeah, like jealousy. Get that?
Teenage love. Well, I couldn't.
I was too busy being a dictator. I was two people making busy,
making the lives of the Humberston School students
miserable. I mean, one of my decrees, and I
called them decrees, was that prefects didn't have to queue
for lunch. That was one of my first thing.
It's so elitist. I was like, we we shouldn't have
to queue. We're so busy we skip the queue.
No wonder I wasn't having a love story.
I was too busy, like ruining people's lives.
Another clip. There we go.
Oh God, yeah, great. I guess taking yourself back to
that time, do you remember when you then first felt that first
spark inside yourself and for you know that first mean feeling
of kind of your inner queerness and then how that felt within
yourself? I don't really remember a
specific time. I kind of, I came out late, I
tell this story on stage, but I I remember and this isn't like a
joke or anything. It is true.
I remember being I used to work at Tesco and again, the power
into my head there I became customer service and I had like
supervisor rights and I just was a nightmare.
I would go like down the tills and be like be careful of your
double scanning Jane. And it'd be like Jane would be
like this 6 year old woman who's worked there for years and she's
got this 18 year old boy in a blazer who thinks he's it.
But I, I remember then it was in Manchester and I saw this woman
come into Tesco and she like objectively was gorgeous.
She had like big boobs. She's like smelt amazing.
She her hair was like, she just was stunning.
And the only thing I thought was no, my, my colleague Blake was
like, oh, my God, she's so fit. And I said, I heard myself say
to him, yeah, And her perfume smells divine.
And I remember thinking, it's probably time to come out, you
know, if that's the only thing you pick up on.
So that was like the main one. And then the next day, I came
out to my parents. But but yeah, I don't remember.
It was kind of a gradual process because I sometimes think when
you repress it, which I think I did for, I mean, I used to say I
was asexual, but I was like, I'm asexual.
But then I just realised like no one wanted to fuck me.
So it's just like, I just wasn't having sex.
It's like you're not asexual. Like asexual is not wanting it.
And I was like, oh, I was just not getting it.
It's different. So yeah, I, yeah, I think it
was, I think it was like a gradual process.
It was. But that was the light bulb
moment where it's like, oh, that's time to come out.
I'd already come out to a few people, but like to my parents
properly. And I also remember thinking
when when I did comedy, I remember thinking, I need to
come out because I'm going to start talking about this on
stage and I can't not be like, I can't go.
I'm a character act and play in a gay man like I had to because
people used to. People still do come up to me
and go, so are you really gay? Are you really gay?
And I'm like, do you think I just weird?
So when you obviously mentioned and we kind of touched on it a
few times, kind of humour has clearly been such a huge part of
your experience. Meaning it feels like you found
comedy at school and you used comedy.
When did it first feel like it was going to be such a big part
of kind of who you are in your what you do in your identity?
And was it something you kind of tapped into as you kind of
navigated the world as, you know, a young gay man?
Yeah, I think comedy, definitely.
And I, I went through a bit of AI used to dress in like shirts
and cravats and that, but I was like 2324.
So I used to really dress up on stage.
And I think that was part of the kind of armour.
And it was part of like exploring the guys to put my 20s
was definitely like when I was, you know, exploring what it
meant to be gay. And, you know, I, I was living
in Manchester. So like there was no better city
than or no better place than Canal Street on Manchester where
I just just had the wildest of times.
But like, yeah, started to. And comedy definitely shaped
stand up. Comedy definitely shaped the
identity as a gay man. But it probably wasn't until
maybe like 2526 when I started to go, oh, this is who I am.
You can start to settle into. And you know, it sounds stupid,
but I always remember back in the day, I used to get furious,
like seething with rage if like a strand of hair happened to not
be in place. And I used to go out craft
crafford like completely pristine.
And if anything went wrong, like if someone went to me like oh I
mean I still don't like it when someone like messes my hair up
now, but I would easily just run my fingers through my hair now
and be like whatever and just move it back.
But if someone did that to me back in the day, I honestly it
would like ruin my night. And I, I always think that that
probably was because I still wasn't 100% comfortable in
myself. Whereas now, like the other day,
I turned up to a bloody press night and I was, I was, I
decided to cycle there and I got lined by it was pissing it down
with rain. And halfway through I was just
like, oh, fuck it, I'm going to carry on sod and wet turn up at
this press night soaking. They're like, could we, could we
do a quick interview with you? Because sometimes you get
invited and then you have to like, you know, you have to say,
I'm so excited to show what? And I was like, oh, I'm dripping
wet, but yeah, whatever. So and I look back at the
footage and I'm like, well, that would never have happened.
That would never have happened back in the day.
Whereas now I'm like, yeah, I'm dripping wet, but yeah,
whatever. And I think that's just
basically being more secure in yourself.
Yeah. When did that happen do you
think? When did you did, did you think
you felt that kind of a, you know, that kind of, oh, this is
authentically me now. I'm not putting any kind of
persona on and then confident enough to just bring it and just
be it every single day. I don't know.
I it was, it must be late 20s.
It was definitely before like my 30s and stuff.
I remember as well, I used to walk down the street and like
people would kind of shout things at me.
And they don't really do that anymore.
And if they do, it's quite rare. And I think for two reasons.
One, because I do still think we have advanced.
I sometimes I do think, oh God, it's getting worse.
But I also think that I just probably exude this I am who I
am type vibe, whereas before I was probably a little bit
skinnier, I was a little bit kind of meek and mild.
So I think the stand up, I mean, you know, if you think about
something like stand up comedy, going out into a room full of
like 200 drunk, rowdy people on a Saturday night at the Comedy
Store and I'm there as like a little 23 year old going, you
need to listen to my story. You know, that really does kind
of set you up for, you know, you build your armour in that.
But so I I yeah, I think I probably exude it more like I do
people say I give off this kind of like don't fuck with me
energy. Not in like a bad way, not in
like a dictator prefect way, but, and I think it's because
I'm just like so comfortable. And I mean, when you meet
someone who's so comfortable in themselves, it can if you're not
be quite intimidating, I imagine.
But I just think stand up comedy is maybe do that because you are
just yourself on stage. Again, unless you're playing a
character, you're you're actually a heightened version of
yourself. Yeah.
How did you get started in comedy then?
I'm so curious as to like, how do you know?
Because it's such a, you know, I talked to Mark a little bit
about this, like, how did you kind of get started and how did
you find that kind of confidence to to your point, you're
standing up on stage and you don't know how people are going
to react. Like, I can't imagine just
standing up on stage and not knowing people may just not
laugh at all. Like how did you get started and
navigate that world to where you are today?
Well, I joined, I was at the University of Salford and I
joined A, I went to like freshers fair.
So the society and I joined a stand up society.
But that, that never ended up happening.
But I'd written like 5 minutes of material and the first time I
ever did a gig, it went well. And I always say if it like if
it didn't go well, I would have probably quit.
I'm such a quitter. Like I am like if something is
mildly discomforting or, you know, discomforting,
uncomfortable, if it's a little bit, oh, no, not for me.
Like I am done with it. And so the first few went well,
which meant that when it didn't go well, I had the evidence to
go, I'm not terrible. Do you know what I mean?
Like my biggest fear was thinking, you know, I imagine if
I'd found out everyone's like, when is he going to quit?
Like I just, I would be horrified because I'm quite, I'm
quite aware, I'm quite self aware of things.
Like I know when things go bad and when things go good.
So I kind of fell into it that way.
And then I just like the stand up circuit in Manchester was
just brilliant. Northwest stand up circuit.
So you know, started with a load of and when you start out,
you're like you have all the comic friends who has started
out, which you all do open spot gigs together.
I remember doing AI remember doing a gig for a guy called
Brian Malcolm and it was like in somewhere in Bursco in the
North. And it was like everyone was
doing 5 minutes. We were all new and then someone
at the end was still new, but he did 10.
It was oh God, could have did 10 minutes.
Wow. And I remember mine going well.
And I saw a post on Facebook like a few days later and
someone had like said how like kind of done a review and
pointed me out. And I remember being like, this
is it stardom awaits. And so those kind of things
allowed me to kind of keep going with it.
And then like, you just start getting paid.
And it was just such a simple thing where it was like, I'm not
getting acting work, I'm getting comedy work.
So I was alongside working at Tesco, I was, I was, you know,
going and doing gigs and, and that's where people go.
Like I was chatting to Tom Allen actually the other day and we
were talking about like work ethic and stuff.
And we were like, we've put the work in.
Like I've sat at Burnley train station at 1:00 AM in the
morning, like waiting for the last train home after I've been
paid £10 expenses for a gig of doing 5 minutes in front of 12
people. I've put those kind of work that
that work in where you've grafted so long.
So so yeah, it kind of went from there.
But then I had a bit like a bit of a break from it.
And I think coming, I remember specifically that there's a
there's a comedy club called them Hot Water Comedy.
People will know in Liverpool. Huge comedy club.
Now back in the day, back in my day, it used to be a pull up
banner at the Holiday Inn and then they moved to another
venue. Now they're like taking over the
world practically or the world of Liverpool online and not in a
dictator way. I wish.
And I remember doing some new material because I used to get
really nervous and I remember doing new material and I
remember specifically going on to do this new material.
And I thought to myself, and I know I said to the audience, I
said, oh, just to let you know, like this could be shit.
I said this could be shit. And they all relax.
I saw them all relax. It was the weirdest thing I was
telling them that it could be terrible.
But I realised afterwards I was like, I was, I was in charge.
It's like being in a car with someone who's nervous driver,
like you are then nervous. Or if if you're watching a
singing competition and the girls start singing, I will
always love you. But she's wobbling at the notes
before you're thinking, how is she going to be at the
crescendo? You know you.
So you sat there like, oh God, it's coming.
So I remember distinctly going, oh God, it actually doesn't
matter. And then the minute you let that
go, that's when I just relaxed into myself and became a better
comedian. Because we all can still have
bad gigs. I mean, it's quite, it's rare
now in the sense you have, you don't die.
You don't die a death. But like back in the day, it
could just be, it could just be awful.
And I used to get worked up and now I'm just like going, OK,
this could be bad. Who gives a shit, you know?
Yeah, and also I can see the the, the logic behind if you sit
down, if I sit down in a crowd and it's very obvious the
comedian is nervous or they say they're nervous or there's
anything you're kind of like, well, if they're nervous, then
how should I feel about it? Whereas that kind of immediately
kind of putting people at ease and saying, you know, but trying
something different, this could be good, this could be terrible.
I can see how that would all instantly relax people.
Yeah, totally. And I've seen, you know, I love
comedians where you watch them and that because I'm high status
on stage. So I'm a bit like I'm here, I'm
owning the stage. But there are some low status
comedians. But even then I love the ones
that kind of go like, alright, yeah.
And you like, and then they go, don't worry, I am good.
And like even saying that people go like this man, like he knows
what he's doing or she knows what that she's doing.
So. Yeah.
I can't even remember. What the question was, I'm so
sorry I baffle on them. But I'm guessing that a lot of
those early experiences, those 5 minute gigs that you know,
because it's one thing to sit down and know you've got, you
know, as a viewer, I sit down, I know I've got an hour and a half
of this comedian who's going to entertain me.
But to have to be funny in 5 minutes, that must be a very
different skill than a hour and a half or an hour set where you
know you've got time to build. No, no, no.
It's probably the other way around.
Like the longer is often harder because that hour and a half is,
is sustaining the audience. 5 minutes now, I mean, 5 minutes,
you just put out five minutes. But 5 minutes back in the day
was your best stuff, your most strongest stuff.
And yeah, now it would be like actually holding on to an
audience for that long is it can be quite difficult.
But the difficulty is when you're new, you don't know
what's good. So you might have 5 minutes, but
two of them might be two. Two of those minutes might be
great material, but then that's the same with an hour and a
half. You might have an hour and a
half an hour and 20 is strong and then you've got 10 minutes
of. But you soon come to realise
that and you you evolve. You go from 5:00, then you do a
10, then you do 15, then you do 20s opening, 20s closing, blah,
blah, blah. And then you work up to an hour
show and and and seeing as well because IMC all the time now,
like I'm I I do a lot. I get booked quite often as an
MC and I love it. Some acts like hate it, but back
in the day I used to be terrified because I'm seeing was
like bouncing off the crowd. Like I just used to come on.
I'd do my set stuff. It was like reading off a script
essentially. Whereas now that I just love it
because you go there'll always be something quite funny and
happening. But back back when I was new, if
someone even shouted something out, I'd be like, oh God, what's
this going to be like? It's just I hadn't planned for
anyone interrupting. And do you feel the kind of any
kind of pressure to be, you know, as a gay comedian, I
guess, do you feel any pressure to be the right kind of gay
comic or fit a certain mould? Or are you just able to just be
you? You know what's going to make
people laugh, and therefore you're just going to be
yourself. I get annoyed because I get you
sound like Tom Allen. You you're, you're you remind me
of Alan Carr. You've got a bit of a Julian
cleariness about you. You've got and it really annoys
me because they're like straight men who will go on and I'm like,
well, they're just like Peter Kay, but no one's saying that to
them. Like so you often get like lazy
comparisons. So sometimes I get like a bit, I
don't feel pressure, but sometimes like I feel pressure
not to talk about gay stuff because that really annoys me
because I'm like, but I always talk about being gay and I'm
like, actually that material I just spoke about was dating.
It just so happens that I'm dating a guy.
So therefore you're like, it's being about being gay.
But no one who's talks about dating as a straight man, people
go like, do you know what I mean?
It's like. Yeah.
It annoys me. Like I talked about going to the
gym. Oh, all that gay stuff.
It's like, no, I just saying it there.
There was a guy in the gym I fancy.
I'm not talking about being gay. Like I do talk about being gay
and then coming out. But so sometimes I get annoyed
at that where it's like, yeah, it that that annoys me because I
was like, actually, I'm not talking about that.
You're just taking from that and.
Then obviously you move between so many different spaces, right?
You move from being on stage as I'm an MC or a stand up comic to
and queer spaces to mainstream TV to podcasting.
Do you ever feel like you're having to kind of code switch
between them or have you reached a point where it's just, I'm
just me and I'm just going to come and give you me?
Well, mostly the latter, but you you always kind of get the
energy of for what a thing is. So when I'm warming up for Loose
Women or Strictly Come Dancing, it's very different to doing a
nighttime comedy club on a Saturday night, you know?
So, yeah, you switch in terms of that, but you're still, you're
still the same. But yeah, you might just be a
little bit more corporate or you might be a little bit more, you
might swear a bit more. You might when I did radio, for
example, there are things that you probably wouldn't say that
you would say on a podcast. So, but that I think, but isn't
that life? Isn't that like, you know, I was
in, I was in a church the day for christening and all of a
sudden you a little bit more, you know, professional as
opposed to if I was in a restaurant.
Yeah, yeah, I think we all do it right.
I think about how I am in my day life to be how I am being on
this to how I am in the office, right.
We all kind of switch to the environments we're in, but at
the centre of it we're always still kind of our core self.
What I used to do as well back in the day is because a lot of
people will hide themselves at the workplace, like be a bit
more like straighter. I used to get more gay.
I used to get camper because often when I had managers, they
just didn't know how to deal with it.
So it was like, it was like the other way where it would be
like, and you'd go, Oh yeah, yeah, do it like, it was
terrible, really. But I used to be like, how dare
you? Like what?
And they'd be like, oh, it's fine, it's fine, It's fine
because they just did not know how to deal with with that.
So I was the other way. Sometimes I would go like really
like, hi everyone. And it would almost be like, I
don't know, this wasn't like the the motivation.
But I sometimes wonder whether the subconscious of it was if
I'm, if I'm so gay, they'd have to just deal with me because it
would almost look homophobic if they didn't.
Do you know what I mean? It's like, yeah, take me as I
am. Yeah, sure.
I remember getting taken off a job actually years ago.
I used to like promo work. And it actually happened to be a
Russian client. And looking back, I was saying,
oh, OK, and and she said something like we want, we don't
want Leon the job we really want.
What we were looking for is someone for because it was like
for Google and I was working like doing this like Google
master class me and the girl and with like young people.
And she said we really want someone that the young people
can aspire to and look up to. And they got rid of me.
And that was basically code. See you later.
But yeah, not everyone like that, but yeah.
And we've touched on it a couple of times.
You do host a fabulous podcast with He Who Must Not Be Now
named. No, he can.
I'm super curious as a fellow podcast to kind of how that came
together and kind of if there's been like, you know, we've
touched on wine and coming, if there's been a big wine epiphany
or just kind of how it all came together and why it was kind of
the right time to do that podcast.
So yeah, me and Alan Carr, we host Bottoms Up with Alan Carr
and Leap Year and it is a wine tasting kind of odyssey,
journey, gossip, wine. And we, we're really good
friends. Everyone thinks we're in a
relationship, We're not, but we're really good friends.
And last year we went to Cape Town together and we went to do
some wine tasting, had the best time.
And while we were set wine tasting, we were like this, this
should be a podcast, like it's good, like blah, blah, blah.
Nothing really came up there. But we kind of kept going back
to it. And then he was like, I want to
do this, I want to do this. So he kind of spoke to his agent
and whatever and whatnot. I spoke to a production company.
And then it all came about literally just after Traitors
had finished. We started it, we launched it
and it's, yeah, it's going really well.
So we, we, we claim the premises, we drink so much wine
and we know so little about it. And so we're kind of trying to
culture ourselves a little bit more.
And he's brilliant. He's like, I think one of the
funniest men alive. And so we just sit and we have
an absolute laugh, like to mates gossip in and we bring in wine
experts who can try along the way to give us a bit of take
home information. But yeah, the so that kind of
came about just through an idea that sparked.
And then the thing about Alan is the great thing about Alan is,
you know, he he is Alan Carr. So if he says I want to do this,
most production companies will go, OK, You know, if it was me
and I was approaching someone might have been like, oh, we're
not sure about this. I mean, look at me, for God's
sake. I can't even get the sun out of
my top. I'm just going whiter and
whiter. People who are listening to this
podcast will have now switched to audio just to see the top.
And it's like, I'm glowing. Do you know, in light?
And at the end of Hercules, when he becomes a God, That's how I
feel. Slowly, like building, by the
time we get the finish it'll be fully fully in glow.
Yeah. So yeah, so it they made it
happen in that way. I think it's great because I
think you said, I think it was on one of the episodes you
talked about this kind of weird snobbery around wine in that
when you're you go into a restaurant, you would have no
issues with kind of asking about a certain food or a certain
meal, whereas you may feel uncomfortable talking about
certain wines. I actually loved that style of
podcast where it's kind of a, it's super entertaining, but
also there is something about it you are unlocking something for
other people and you know, demystifying something that can
feel quite protected. Yeah, and we didn't want it to
just turn into and sometimes it does.
We didn't want it though to turn into like just two mates having
a chat and happening happening to have wine as well.
So I'm very conscious and as is Alan of at least giving a bit of
take home information, you know, and so that's what we kind of
wanted to do in terms of we don't we don't just want to sit
there and basically just drink wine all the time.
We want to at least go, oh, here's a little hack that you
can take home with you or here's a little fact and things like
that, you know. So, so yeah, that was that that
is something that we want to kind of keep along the way.
And then we've got like guests that are coming on and, you
know, they might have their own wine or they just like, love
wine. Like Tom Allen's coming on this
week. Actually, I don't know when this
podcast drops, but he might have already been on.
But. And so we, but he, you know, we
always like he's a wine connoisseur.
But we've, we have, yeah, we have like Olivia Atwood, she's a
bit of a party girl. So we had her for our New Year's
thing. But mostly we have like wine
experts. So people from the world of wine
who basically are our teachers. I love it, I love it.
I think it's a great podcast. Everyone should check it out.
And as we approach the the full glow up moment for those who are
watching, our final question. This is almost like a timer for
me, isn't it? It's like I've I've done it like
once the sun hits, I'm gone full done, Yeah.
Well, we started this conversation obviously talking
about young Lee, so let's revisit him.
If you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what
would it be? And would it be different if I
just said, what advice would you give to a young LGBTQ plus
person today in 2026? If I was going to give a young
Lee a piece of advice, I would say invest in paper straws and
they're really going to become quite a big thing.
I would say put your money in that.
No, I would say a piece of advice for young lady.
I would, I actually would say be better with money.
I was terrible in my 20s with money.
Don't just be frivolous with it. What was the other question
about LGBTQ? Just advice to young LGBTQ plus
people today and they navigate the kind of the world we live
in. You often feel like it's you and
you're the first one that's had this journey.
And I would say I as when I was younger, I met older gay men who
like mentored me. There's a wonderful man called
Adam Zane who is a director and then who's in Queer as Folk, but
he directs and writes a lot of his his stuff now and a lot of
theatre is amazing. And I worked with him on quite a
few plays back in the day. He was one of the people that
introduced me to it, like Matthew Shepard and stuff like
that. So I would say listen to stories
of people who have come before you.
That's that's the advice I would give and understand the the
journey it took. I love that.
That's great advice. Well we have reached full glow
up moment guys that are watching.
And now the sun is actually, I could actually just sit.
Yeah, I am being blinded. I could have done this actually.
But now it's really in my face. I know, imagine if I turn the
camera around and it's just a massive ring light that I've
just been moving slowly. Lifting up behind you.
It's because my in my kitchen I've got these massive windows
and it just beams through. But actually, and it's quite
nice in the summer. It's horrific.
It's like a greenhouse. Well, we've.
All appreciated. We've all got problems.
We've all got problems with my massive windows.
God, don't you hate it when your windows are massive?
This has been brilliant. I've really appreciate this.
It's been so interesting to get to know you more.
I'm always fascinated by people's kind of journeys.
I'm fascinated by comedy. You will never catch me to even
trying to do a 5 minute comedy set, but I'm fascinated by it.
So I really appreciate you coming on the podcast and I
really appreciate you putting up with the glow up as it kind of
lifted itself up through you. And yeah, just thank you for
being on Quit Talk. What can I say?
I glow.