1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,760 Hello and welcome back to the Queerest podcast telling the 2 00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:05,760 fiercest Stories. This is queer Talker and I'm Ben 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,240 Cicchetti. This week I sit down with stand 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,840 up comic and social media influencer Mark Biddlestone. 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,400 Maybe I had like a nascent awareness of my sort of 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,280 burgeoning sexuality, but I was like, whatever happens, I do not 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,600 want to be gay. Whoops. 8 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:27,520 OK, that didn't work out. Yeah, spoiler alert. 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:35,040 But I spent sort of 10 years in the closet, afraid to be who I 10 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:36,680 was. So it's you. 11 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,640 You forget how far you've come if you're then happy to do loads 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:48,680 of stupid reels about it. My mum died a week before my A 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,120 levels and then my dad died like 2 weeks before my university 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:55,880 finals. I was like, guys, can we do we 15 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:02,920 have to having, you know, free Palestine in my bio and and 16 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,360 speaking out about it a lot was probably it meant meant I was a 17 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,000 sort of no go for quite a lot of brands. 18 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,480 But you know, I think when stuff is important to you and and you 19 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,720 look back and you think like, how could I have done nothing? 20 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,200 Mark, we will break the ice with our Queer panic rapid fire set 21 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,600 of questions. You just respond with the first 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,480 thing that comes to mind, starting with what was the first 23 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,240 album you ever owned? I think it was White flag by 24 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,640 Dido. Wow, that's awesome. 25 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,640 Bought it, bought it from HHMV in Wimbledon. 26 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:47,000 Said it's a banger. It's a it's a real banger. 27 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,440 Yeah, that's a classic. I love that. 28 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,040 If you had to lip sync for your life, what song would you 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:58,000 choose? Oh, maybe left outside alone by 30 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,480 Anastasia. Wow, Yeah, I. 31 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,160 Think. That'll be a lot I. 32 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,840 Think I know that pretty well, yeah. 33 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:12,360 OK, who was a childhood celebrity crush of yours? 34 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,520 Orlando Bloom as Legolas in Lord of the Rings? 35 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,720 Definitely. Yeah, yeah, Two towers when he 36 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:25,160 slides down on the shield, like, yeah, I can, yeah, real energy 37 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:26,400 there, yes. Please. 38 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:31,200 Yeah. What is your biggest red flag? 39 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,640 Maybe guys who take themselves too seriously. 40 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,200 Yeah, maybe that. I feel like you couldn't date a 41 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,680 comedian and then try and take yourself too seriously, right? 42 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,680 Like it's going to be fun, so. Yeah, it's just a bit. 43 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,880 It's like, come on, we're on a rock spinning through space. 44 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,080 Just chill out. That's bad. 45 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaking of dating, do you have an embarrassing dating story 46 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,800 that you're willing to share with our listeners? 47 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,960 Do I have an embarrassing dating story? 48 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,240 I mean, I must do. I've, I've cut dates. 49 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,880 Pretty sure I don't know what the shortest you've done or 50 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,040 people have done. I've done like a 40 minute. 51 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,520 Yeah, wow. Wait, you just knew this isn't 52 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:24,640 right. Yeah. 53 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:26,480 So I don't know what like this is. 54 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,800 This is not, we obviously haven't done our due diligence 55 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,960 because this is not working. This is not, this is not 56 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,000 working. I've also like, and I think this 57 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:44,080 maybe speaks to the sort of the, the incestuousness or the small 58 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:49,000 size of the sort of, you know, London sort of, you know, urban 59 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,720 sort of going out, quit population, whatever. 60 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:59,080 But like, I've, yeah, been on dates where, like, it's emerged 61 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,960 that like I, we've basically slept with each other's exes. 62 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:08,320 OK, you better turn off. Yeah, it actually was. 63 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,960 It was a it, it was a yeah. It was a bit of a then a dead 64 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,680 end because yeah, yeah, yeah. I can appreciate that. 65 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,000 Yeah. Suddenly I'm not missing the 66 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:20,800 dating life. It's. 67 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:23,840 It's interesting. Totally, totally. 68 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,920 What is your favourite queer movie or TV show? 69 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,040 The Queer as Folk is so great because it's so. 70 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:38,720 They're all the characters so vile. 71 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,280 Do you know what I mean? I think like, I understand the 72 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:49,200 move towards like positive queer narratives, but positive stuff 73 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,960 isn't that funny a lot of the time. 74 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,440 And so, yeah, cruise folk, cruise folks, great. 75 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,160 But, and do you know what though? 76 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,480 I only watched Brokeback Mountain like last year. 77 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,000 And I think funny enough, the reason it took me so long to 78 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,880 watch it is because growing up, that was such like, a byword for 79 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,920 like, you're gay. Like at school, it was always 80 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,520 like, oh, what did you watch this weekend? 81 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,080 Brokeback Mountain? So I think I avoided it for ages 82 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,480 just because it was so laced with like, you know, the sort of 83 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,960 homophobia and, and, and it felt, it felt almost like a 84 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,200 cliche. Yeah. 85 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,080 Even though obviously when you watch it, it's a completely 86 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,760 beautiful movie. And I was in, I was in just 87 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,720 floods of tears. OK, confession. 88 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,360 I've never watched it. Like, I don't know why. 89 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,200 I don't know if it's for the same reason, but I now feel like 90 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,320 I have to do some homework and yeah, how can you? 91 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,320 I will watch it by the time this episode comes out. 92 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,800 How? Can you host this podcast and 93 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:53,240 not have seen Broken Mountain? I know the shame of it all. 94 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:58,440 OK, I will, I will fix that. Who is your ultimate queer icon? 95 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:09,120 Maybe Ian McKellen, good guy, good actor, does lots of he's 96 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,200 always, he's always on marches. He's often he's at. 97 00:06:12,280 --> 00:06:16,280 He was at Roast the other day. OK, nice. 98 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,000 I mean, I wasn't there. I saw the photo. 99 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,440 Yeah, yeah. Let's, let's give a shout out to 100 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:26,760 Syrian. Syrian. 101 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,800 Yeah, Syrian. Well, Speaking of people, who is 102 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:33,760 one person? This is such a selfish question. 103 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,200 Who is one person you would like to hear me interview on this 104 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,600 podcast? Don't say Sir McCallum, because 105 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:45,160 I think that might be a stretch. Maybe Alan Carr? 106 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,040 He'd be amazing. He'd be amazing. 107 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,040 He'd be amazing. He'd be, he'd be, he'd be 108 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,760 completely amazing. Yeah, to discuss afterwards. 109 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:55,920 But if you've had, have you had Lee? 110 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,080 Have you emailed Lee Pierce or had Leon? 111 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:03,000 I haven't, no. Lee's a fantastic comic and 112 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,480 Lee's also really good mates with Alan and they're starting a 113 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,800 podcast soon, so should get Leon in in in his own right because 114 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,160 he's fantastic, but then sort of be like Lee. 115 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,120 Do you have to recommend me? Lee, you had such a good 116 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,160 experience. Yeah, yeah. 117 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,240 Lee, we did get you on because we wanted you, but also, yeah. 118 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,720 You happen to be friends, OK? Totally, totally. 119 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,520 It's a good shout. What is your proudest moment of 120 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:36,640 your career so far? I just did the in May, I did the 121 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:42,440 Killkemi Killkemi Kilkenny Comedy Festival, which is like, 122 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:48,640 you know, invite only just I met like all the acts is like maybe 123 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,600 all of Ireland and Northern Ireland's like biggest comedy 124 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,840 acts and it's just like staggering the talent on 125 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,120 displays to be invited to do that was was incredible. 126 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:06,240 So maybe that I think maybe just like performing at all these 127 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,040 clubs like top secret and the comedy store and the frog and 128 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,200 bucket and the stand where like, you know, I remember the first 129 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,600 time I did a lot of them. The first time I did, almost all 130 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:21,000 of them was in there like gong show capacity, which if 131 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,200 listening audience aren't familiar with. 132 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,640 It's like a lot of the truck, a lot of the way into some of 133 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,600 these clubs is you. You, you have these gong shows 134 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,840 where you go up and basically you have to survive 5 minutes 135 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,480 and if the audience don't think you're funny, they'll actually 136 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,520 gong you off. That's brutal. 137 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,480 So pretty brutal. But yeah, so I remember, you 138 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,080 know, with all of those clubs, that's how I started. 139 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:48,800 And you, you're there and you're literally so nervous and scared. 140 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,720 So then to be, you know, to be doing paid full paid weekends at 141 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,240 those clubs, you're like, wow, what you know, what a kind of 142 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,840 pinch me moment from from from where I was. 143 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:07,800 I think that's kind of cool. I think also another nice 1 is 144 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:14,080 when people say like people still come up to you and they're 145 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:18,960 like, I love your stuff. And also maybe I like kind of 146 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:27,400 like, I don't know, the you're just really, really easy in your 147 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,120 identity as a as a queer person and putting it out there 148 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,320 because, yeah, certainly, you know, obviously we've all been 149 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,040 on a journey, but I spent sort of 10 years in the closet, you 150 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:45,400 know, afraid to be who I was. So it's you. 151 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,360 You forget how far you've come. If you're then happy to do loads 152 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,920 of stupid reals about it. That's bad. 153 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:56,480 That's bad. No, I think that's incredible. 154 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,000 Final of our quick panic questions. 155 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,600 What is one word you would use to describe your childhood? 156 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,480 Oh, my childhood was was really lovely. 157 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:11,080 Sorry. These are meant to be quick 158 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:11,760 fire, aren't they? It's. 159 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,360 All good. They rarely are. 160 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,720 Haven't. Haven't been quick fire at all. 161 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,320 Do, you know, my childhood was lovely, but I think it speaks 162 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,280 volumes that even in I grew up in like a liberal part of a 163 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,680 liberal country, like southwest London in, in, you know, the 164 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:33,920 90s. But it was still, you know, I 165 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,600 still felt the need to stay in the closet for like, a decade. 166 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,560 Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, OK. 167 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:43,960 Well, we can explore that a bit more because I'm super curious. 168 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,760 I always have this as long term listeners will know, I had this 169 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,000 theory that to understand an LGBTQ plus person as an adult, 170 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,600 which we all claim to be, you first need to understand them as 171 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,360 a young person. So what should I know about you 172 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,120 as a young person to understand the mark that sits in front of 173 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,640 me today? Yeah, I mean, first of all, I'm 174 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,440 a child of privilege for sure. Like I went to a private school 175 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,320 in southwest London, grew up in like, a big house in Wimbledon. 176 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:15,200 And not just like material privilege, but my parents lovely 177 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,880 and and emotionally available and help with homework and all 178 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,560 that kind of stuff. So I think it's crucial to the 179 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:26,640 foreground for discussions with that understanding. 180 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,520 But yeah, I think also that like, notwithstanding that, you 181 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:40,200 know, the 90s were, I don't know what a good time is, but like, 182 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,840 you know, homophobia was just still just an acceptable 183 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:48,920 language, you know, in in our house, which again, I say like, 184 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,280 it was weird because I guess my parents, you know, who voted for 185 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,440 Tony Blair, they would have considered themselves liberal. 186 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:00,640 And yeah, like the word gay was just was was was everyday as a 187 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:05,040 as an insult and like a few things they said that made it 188 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:10,200 clear that like, they would be OK if one of us were gay, but it 189 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,800 was not ideal. Right, right. 190 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:19,320 And then, yeah, I went to like all boys schools where, yeah, 191 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,160 again, like, I think the sad thing is this is a phrase I 192 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,640 often use. Like probably like my like the 193 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,800 earliest, really the earliest, one of the earliest memories of 194 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,560 like what what I wanted to be or what type of person I wanted to 195 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:37,520 be. Maybe like age 7 or 8, like was 196 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,200 I don't want to be gay, like right. 197 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,520 And that is such a crystal clear that had been drummed into me 198 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:49,880 from like the playground and like home, like all of my points 199 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,360 of reference were straight. And then everyone knew that like 200 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,960 being gay was just like dreadful, embarrassing, awful 201 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,000 thing. So kind of before I even had an 202 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,840 idea of what I wanted to do with my life, like lawyer or or, you 203 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,720 know, astronaut or whatever, it was like, I know. 204 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,960 And maybe I had like a nascent awareness of my sort of 205 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,800 burdening sexuality, but I was like, whatever happens, I do not 206 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:24,680 want to be gay. OK, that didn't work out. 207 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:29,800 Yeah, spoiler alert. I guess with that mindset then, 208 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,760 do you remember the first gay LGBTQ person, queer person you 209 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,720 just kind of became aware of? And how did that make you feel, 210 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,000 knowing that you had this kind of real urge and desire to not 211 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,400 be gay? Yeah, we had this really sweet 212 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,200 gay couple who lived down our Rd, Philip and Blair. 213 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:51,440 And again, this is the kind of contradiction, I mean with my 214 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,480 parents and my parents were really good friends with them. 215 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,280 And my dad would do remember my dad saying like how unfair it is 216 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:02,560 that someone's sexuality which they don't choose. 217 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:06,480 He was very aware of that can be the basis for for 218 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,000 discrimination. And yeah, as I, as I say, like 219 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,680 didn't, didn't, I didn't do anything to stop the word gay 220 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,880 being bandied around by my siblings and I as a, as a, as a, 221 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,920 as an insult. But yeah, I think, you know, we 222 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,000 would have Philip and Blair over. 223 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:30,080 But then I think, you know, my siblings once they had left the 224 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,360 piece of some quite cruel comments. 225 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:41,560 So I guess pretty pretty early on it was like that. 226 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,720 That's that's weird. That's, you know, not, not what 227 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,680 we really not, not what my parents are, not what my uncles 228 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,920 and aunts are, you know, not what my, you know, not really 229 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,320 the model that we want to be following. 230 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,280 But hilariously my dad, he might have a sight, very bright guy 231 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,800 and super interested in science and stuff and he became aware of 232 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,680 this this this fact. Which you may or may not be 233 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,760 aware of that the more older brothers you have, the likely 234 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:18,600 you are to be gay. Don't know if. 235 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,960 OK, yeah, I didn't know that. How many older brothers do you? 236 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,520 Have Well, this is the thing. I have two older brothers. 237 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:25,920 OK. I've only got 1 so I don't know 238 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:27,760 what happened to me. Well, no, that I mean, it's 239 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:33,280 still your, your chances are like doubled by each. 240 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,520 I mean, you know, obviously they still remain low, but but to my 241 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,360 dad like just raising that as a point of interest, like the 242 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,320 dinner table and then. Looking at you. 243 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,400 Older brothers looking at me and being like and me being like, 244 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:55,960 yeah, I don't know, guys. Can't believe everything you 245 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,920 read? That that can't be true, Yeah. 246 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,480 Well, then I guess with that feeling, you know, with that 247 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,240 exposure of that, you know, knowing a gay couple, but that 248 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,760 feeling in that sense that this wasn't the life you wanted and 249 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,600 you felt it wasn't the life your family wanted for you. 250 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,080 Do you remember the first time you did feel that kind of first 251 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,680 awareness of queerness that you may be gay? 252 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,240 I think like. Interestingly, as I get older, I 253 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:32,920 think I, I backdate that to earlier because I didn't have 254 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:41,680 like sexual thoughts about, you know, other boys until I was 14. 255 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:48,720 But like looking back earlier, probably when I was like 11 or 256 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:57,360 12, I can remember being like, oh boy, in my class is like 257 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:02,400 really, I don't even know how an 11 year old, you know, thinks or 258 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,800 how I thought about them. But like, oh, that, that boy is 259 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,240 really like pretty or good looking, whatever. 260 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:14,359 Yeah. So yeah, probably sort of 10 or 261 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,800 11 maybe. But still was the period in 262 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,359 which I started to be like, OK, this, this is a possibility. 263 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:31,000 And then really, I think 14. So 1415 is was like kind of 264 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:37,080 denial. And then I, I said to myself, I 265 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,480 remembers, I was like, if, if it's still like this when you're 266 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,920 21, then then come out. Because I think the, the idea of 267 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,480 it being a phase was still still in vogue in like the 2000s. 268 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,720 So I said that to myself and, and actually I, I ended up 269 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,840 following that to pretty much the letter. 270 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:02,720 I did come out OK. Do you remember then like you 271 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,840 come across and you mentioned a little bit earlier that people 272 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:06,720 come up to you and say you come across as incredibly 273 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,760 authentically you, you feel, you feel very confident in yourself. 274 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:14,480 Do you remember the first time you did feel authentically 275 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,840 yourself, and then when you could bring that authenticity to 276 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,680 everything you do? Yeah, I mean, I, I certainly 277 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,920 like, I remember the period of coming out as like an incredibly 278 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:36,400 exciting and happy 1. I had, I was at university and I 279 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,320 had the first two and a bit years there I had sort of fallen 280 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,840 into like a lot of the same patterns I did at school. 281 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,240 Like I played sport and like I was in like the drinking 282 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,520 society, whatever. And so and I was still 283 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,800 pretending to be straight. And then I met a guy through a 284 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,080 friend who I knew was gay and I sort of engineered the meeting 285 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,920 because he was also really hot. And then he was pretty much 286 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:03,960 we've. All been there, yeah. 287 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,280 Quite. And yeah, he was pretty much the 288 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:12,600 first person I told other than I could grind a hook up that 289 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,880 earlier that summer, which was a really scary event. 290 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,960 But yeah, I remember telling him and then kind of, you know, me 291 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,120 and him sort of, I mean, he was in an open relationship with a 292 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:28,560 guy at the time and then some me and him sort of we were like 293 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,720 messaging all Christmas and we met up and stuff and then broke 294 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,320 up with his boyfriend and me and him started dating. 295 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,320 And then obviously kind of once we started dating, he was like, 296 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,320 you've got to tell people. And so that was actually really 297 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,440 great because it meant I had to tell people really. 298 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,440 And he he was really, really supportive. 299 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,880 And yeah, I definitely remember, you know, this kind of rush or 300 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,360 an overwhelming feeling of like, God, thank God, you know, this 301 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:01,920 sort of extraordinary relief because. 302 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,240 Yeah, you obviously carried it around with you for a long, long 303 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,000 time. Yeah, I think one of the themes 304 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,840 that comes up in your comedy, which I hope you don't mind us 305 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:15,680 discussing, is around loss and grief, because you've shared 306 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,960 that your mum very sadly passed away during your A levels and 307 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,520 then your dad passed away during your university finals. 308 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,920 That's such a formative time in anyone's life. 309 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,880 How do you think going through that at that point in time 310 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,880 shaped you and your relationship, yourself and your 311 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,480 relationship with your family going forward? 312 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,360 Yeah, it was like a a wild time really. 313 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:49,920 I think particularly because my childhood was very privileged 314 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:55,560 and and idyllic and I come from like a sort of middle class set 315 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:01,760 where, you know, bad things don't really happen very often. 316 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,480 Very fortunately, on top of those like material privileges, 317 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,400 you have some, I'm like white and male and and cisgendered 318 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,360 and, and straight. Sorry, I'm not straight. 319 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,800 And he's back in the closet. But like, you know, relatively 320 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,760 straight passing. So so, you know, rarely the 321 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,280 victim, for example, of homophobia. 322 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:32,160 But so I think, yeah, you know, my mum dying was sort of my 323 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,280 introduction to when I was 17 introduction to sort of, you 324 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:40,240 know, see the bad, bad things can happen. 325 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,800 And in a way, obviously that is hugely sad. 326 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,640 But it's also like, you know, gosh, what I guess a privilege 327 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,240 in some ways for that to have really been your first, you 328 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:56,160 know, experience of that. But kind of during that period 329 00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:01,520 my mum died. I was kind of deeply for the 330 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,320 next sort of five years, I guess, like quite, quite upset 331 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,800 and depressed about being gay and how to come out and, and all 332 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,520 that kind of stuff. And then, and, and then my dad 333 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,440 died. And as you said, there's, it was 334 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,680 a bit mad. My mum did the cemetery and my 335 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,960 mum died a week before my A levels and then my dad died like 336 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,640 2 weeks before my university finals. 337 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:32,840 I was like, guys, can we do we have to, but I think doing those 338 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,840 exams and, and, and, you know, doing well, I think on the one 339 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:42,640 hand, like meant that I actually kind of suppressed quite a lot 340 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,920 of them feelings of grief and stuff because I just had to from 341 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,000 a functional perspective to get through the exams. 342 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:55,120 But I think it's also meant that I sort of have, I know I have 343 00:22:55,120 --> 00:22:58,120 sort of a well that I can draw on of sort of mental strength. 344 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:01,880 I'm like, gosh, if I was able to do that, then, you know, 345 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:03,720 whatever. Yeah. 346 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:10,000 Did you have a a chance or do you think your parents knew? 347 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,480 Did you have a chance to come out to either of them? 348 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,360 Was there any kind of sense they got to know you? 349 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:17,360 Your your your true authentic self. 350 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,440 I mean, I never, I didn't. I'd certainly didn't come out to 351 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:27,920 my mum, but I also, you know, I also didn't have Oh well, I I 352 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:33,640 kind of had girlfriends ish at school, but I didn't introduce 353 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:38,800 my parents to any of them. I think they it was, you know, a 354 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,280 plausible option, But I also don't think they like thought I 355 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:48,520 was gay necessarily. I think I probably will. 356 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:55,320 I definitely like, avoided, you know, be in camp or doing stuff 357 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,080 that would make them all people, all school friends think I was 358 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,160 gay. Do you know what I mean? 359 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,640 And then my dad's I Yeah. So my dad was ill. 360 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,160 I mean, he, he was just deeply, deeply depressed after my mum 361 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,560 died and sort of developed a bit of psychotic depression. 362 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,640 And so actually in the spring, just a couple of months before 363 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:24,560 he he passed away, I was going to I told my I came back to my 364 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:30,000 siblings and I was like, you should I tell dads? 365 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,040 And they were kind of like, well, and they didn't say doe, 366 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,640 but they were like, I don't, you know, we probably won't, you 367 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,160 probably won't get what you want out of it. 368 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,280 And he wasn't really communicating much at all. 369 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:47,520 And yeah, to an extent it was. And I was also like, there was a 370 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,640 little bit of he has enough on his play at the moment. 371 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,560 That's OK. I've done the hearing that I'm 372 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,160 gay is going to like, if his issue is, you know, his his wife 373 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,640 of 40 years, he's passed away. I'm not sure hearing that I'm 374 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,400 gay is going to like shift the dial in either direction. 375 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,920 But I, I, I, I get it. I don't hold like a grudge on 376 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,920 that. But that like quite, you know, 377 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,560 humorously from a sort of, you know, slapstick perspective, my 378 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:15,440 my boyfriend came to stay at the family home that my dad was 379 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,440 living in. That was kind of he just kept 380 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,560 himself to himself. So I had to tell him like a 381 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,920 friend was staying like for a week in my bedroom. 382 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,240 But whatever says, I mean, you know, probably, possibly he, he 383 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:35,560 had his suspicions, if you like. Yeah, that's super interesting. 384 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,320 And I think, you know, it's already come out in this 385 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,080 conversation. You know, comedy can be a really 386 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:45,200 powerful tool for coping. And in your case, do you think 387 00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,040 I'm curious to know about your journey into comedy? 388 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,000 But then do you think humour and your comedy work has helped you 389 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,280 through the grief process? Because you mentioned you feel 390 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:54,600 like you're repressed a lot of it. 391 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,720 Has comedy help you come to terms with that and and work 392 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,040 through it? Yeah, definitely. 393 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,480 I think talking about it on stage, but I mean, also like, 394 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,560 you know, the comedy, obviously comedy that happens on stage is 395 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,520 only a tiny portion of, of what you of of, of comedy as an 396 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,200 outlet. All of you know, all of us, this 397 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,520 is going to sound so all of us are comedians. 398 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,160 No, but just like, you know, yeah, I like, I've I quite early 399 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:36,040 on I, you know, used comedy as a, as a way to talk about it to 400 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,960 friends and so on. Because, yeah, it's so 401 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:46,000 overwhelming that, you know, there's obviously a time to be 402 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,120 sad about it, but it but it is also just a part of life. 403 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:54,800 And and so, you know, unlike all other parts of life, you've got 404 00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:00,480 to be able to laugh about it. And I think, you know, 405 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,680 particularly with, like, friends, my school friends and 406 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,840 stuff, I think they were brilliant and have always been 407 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,160 wonderful. I think because, you know, it 408 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,920 was in any circle, it's quite unusual to lose 2 parents in 409 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,280 that quite short space of time. And both by the edge, both by 410 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,040 the edge of 21. But I think there was a like, 411 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,440 oh, you know, this is too so serious. 412 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,720 We can't joke about it. So I think, like, allowing that 413 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,480 because, you know, it's good. Yeah. 414 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,960 Yeah, when do you think? Then let's talk about kind of 415 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,800 your journey into comedy. When did you realise comedy was 416 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,240 something you wanted to pursue as a career? 417 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,280 And then I'm also curious as to the role your kind of queerness 418 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,400 has played in your performance and your kind of decision to get 419 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,280 into comedy. Yeah, I mean, I have quite a 420 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,040 sort of a mixed entrance into it. 421 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,880 I think the moment I just, I can like remember the moment I 422 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,120 decided I wanted to, I was on holiday with that same 423 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:04,760 boyfriend, so like full 10 years ago now and my dad had just 424 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,320 died. And I was like, oh, like, I 425 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:13,240 mean, I guess at the time my path would have been into sort 426 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:18,480 of corporate jobs ish. You know, like most of my 427 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,040 friends are in and kind of siblings and family. 428 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,160 And I was like, actually, you know, like life is really, 429 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:30,480 really short and my dad's probably only only did something 430 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,880 he was passionate about in like the last 10 years of his life. 431 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,560 And so I was like, let's, you know, let's, let's give it a go 432 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,600 and see. And so I, I stayed on for 433 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,960 another year at uni and got into the like the university comedy 434 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,280 Society. And, and then kind of my early 435 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,440 stabs at it and like the London open mic scene and stuff were 436 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:59,120 like relatively unsuccessful. And so I actually sort of, sort 437 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,560 of stopped. I was a teacher in like the late 438 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,320 twenty 10's and did actually get fired, to be fair. 439 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,520 And then kind of when I was fired, it was for pulling 440 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:15,880 sickies. Don't worry. 441 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,960 OK, OK. You're like. 442 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:20,840 I need a new career. There's nothing. 443 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,960 There's nothing to worry about. Yeah, kind of. 444 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,120 When I got fired just on the eve of the pandemic, I was like, OK, 445 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,240 well, you know, why don't you give it, kind of give it a 446 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,160 proper go. And yes, I started tutoring and 447 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,280 doing stand up. And then the pandemic, I started 448 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,480 doing like skits on social media and kind of grew a bit of a 449 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,600 following. And then I think that that 450 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,680 increased my confidence in stand up and the both kind of fed into 451 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,600 one another because I think it's, you know, it's confidence 452 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:03,360 in yourself is probably probably the most important asset in this 453 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,080 game. Yeah, to stand up on stage and 454 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,400 kind of just like hope people laugh at what you're about to 455 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,720 say must be kind of terrifying. Yeah. 456 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,880 And I think it's like it's, you know, just confidence is how can 457 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,080 I, you know, am I good? Can I keep writing good stuff? 458 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,360 You know, will I, will I write that 10 minutes I need for the 459 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,640 show the next month, all, you know, all that kind of stuff 460 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,400 because you're going to get knocked back time and time again 461 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,840 by the industry and whatever it is and by your own kind of self 462 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,680 doubts. So yeah, I think just like being 463 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:45,480 convinced that, you know, is is really important. 464 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,920 Yeah. And as far as kind of like you 465 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,120 yourself in your, in your kind of your queerness and your 466 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,040 authenticity around that, do you ever feel the need to kind of 467 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,960 edit yourself or exaggerate your queerness depending on the 468 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,040 audience or the kind of the situation? 469 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:11,040 I think I, I don't think I do. I think I'm relatively like me 470 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:18,280 on stage and I think like my, I mean my persona on stage is 471 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,760 probably like gay but likes football or whatever. 472 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:30,000 And I think that has been helpful, certainly in the 473 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,200 environments I came up through comedy wise, those sort of like 474 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:39,040 gong shows where there's, you know, useful to be able to tease 475 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,280 straight guys in the audience and that kind of thing. 476 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,720 Yeah, I don't, I don't necessarily feel the need to 477 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,640 edit myself. I do feel the the pressure and 478 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,800 and actually the desire and whether that's like my own 479 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,760 desire or I feel like the industry reflecting back to me 480 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:07,360 desire to like talk about being a less and, you know, do a show 481 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,360 about something else or whatever. 482 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,320 But I think anyone with like a, let's say an identity badge 483 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,800 feels that after their their sort of debut show, which is 484 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,040 often about that, they're like, OK, that's the industry's bored 485 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,480 with that now. OK, Yeah. 486 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,520 And you talk about teasing a straight guy. 487 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,440 You took your show. I need a straight guy on the 488 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,480 road in May and June. What was that experience like? 489 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,240 Yeah, it was great. It was, it was, you know, really 490 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,280 cool. It was such a a crazy privileged 491 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:50,080 to be doing a tour and sort of, yeah, you know, you don't ever 492 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,200 think that that you'll get to that stage. 493 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,800 So it was really cool. I had lovely, lovely audiences. 494 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,240 That's my favourite. Maybe Cardiff. 495 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,320 Cardiff was wicked. Just so good. 496 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,040 Yeah. I think like one thing you have 497 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,760 to get used to in this game is that like by the end of that 498 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:18,760 process of building a show, you are pretty bored of your own 499 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,680 show. Right, OK. 500 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,760 It's because you, yeah, you've done it a lot. 501 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,320 And yeah, I've done it, you know, 30 times the year before 502 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,120 in Edinburgh and, and it had been worked in progress over the 503 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,720 previous of two years. So you're a bit like, OK, like, 504 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,960 how do I breathe life into this? How do I remember that? 505 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,800 It's like the audience's first time seeing it. 506 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,720 How do I sort of. Yeah, you know, so that's that's 507 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,840 an interesting challenge. But I think, yeah, probably it's 508 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,880 probably by that stage your favourite parts of the show are 509 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:58,680 like, you know, random moments of audience interaction that 510 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:04,000 really bring the show to life. You just always particularly 511 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,920 that show had had like inbuilt audience interaction like with a 512 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:12,159 straight guy. So those bits were always really 513 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:14,159 funny because it's like something different or something 514 00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,440 new each show. Yeah, that does sound cool. 515 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,440 And I think, you know my perception, someone who's never 516 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,719 been a comedian, never going to go on tour as a comedian, it 517 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,960 feels like comedy often does mean kind of life on the road. 518 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,840 And when you're kind of touring that show and when you were in 519 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,560 Edinburgh, how does that lifestyle kind of impact you 520 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,840 personally? And then how do you kind of stay 521 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,120 grounded in yourself when you are kind of travelling in 522 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,560 Edinburgh or travelling around kind of the country doing the 523 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,120 shows? Yeah, I think it's hard and it's 524 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,679 it's, I think, you know why quite a lot of comedians, we 525 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,360 drink too much. I think also why kind of 526 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,360 comedians are tea total because they're like, oh God, if I'm 527 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,200 going to stay in this game, I need these like boundaries. 528 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,520 Yeah, it's hard. It can be hard to establish like 529 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,960 a healthy like routine and stuff. 530 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,480 I mean, like for me personally, most of my gigs are in London, 531 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,800 you know, maybe like one weekend a month, one to two weekends a 532 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,760 month. I might be around the country. 533 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,560 And I mean, my tour by all standards was still relatively 534 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:24,920 small. It's only like 11 dates. 535 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,560 So I'm not like on the road, you know, kind of crazy amount, but 536 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,240 I can imagine, yeah. Once you, you know, once you're 537 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,600 whatever at gamble when you're doing sort of, you know, 200 day 538 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:41,840 tours, staying in hotels all the time and just in your car a lot. 539 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:48,160 It's yeah, hard to sort of build a routine and stick to it, 540 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,440 basically. Yeah, well, maybe that is the 541 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,000 life to follow for you as kind of success continues to build. 542 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,680 One of the things I really admire about you is that you've 543 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:04,720 used your platform on social media to talk about causes that 544 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:08,200 you care about and issues in kind of the global climate that 545 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,040 you care about. How do you kind of approach 546 00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:14,320 speaking up on those topics? Has there ever been any pressure 547 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,880 for you to either speak up or stay quiet, or have you kind of 548 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,400 had the ability to kind of do what you feel is best in 549 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,600 yourself? Yeah, I mean, I've always done, 550 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,960 you know, what I've, what I feel is right, what I feel passionate 551 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,160 about. You know, obviously, 552 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,120 particularly with Gaza over the last two years, I mean, maybe 553 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,920 less so now that that, you know, the penny has finally dropped 554 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,480 for, you know, in big institutions and so on. 555 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:50,640 But yeah, definitely, you know, in something like brand work, 556 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,800 for example, it felt like having, you know, Free Palestine 557 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,640 in my bio and and speaking out about it a lot was probably 558 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,160 probably, probably it meant meant I was a sort of no go for 559 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:10,320 quite a lot of brands. But you know, such is life. 560 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,000 And I think when stuff's important to you and, and you 561 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,040 look back and you think like, how could I have done nothing 562 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,200 then? Then yeah. 563 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,000 So yeah, I wouldn't regret it for sure. 564 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,280 No, I think it's incredibly important. 565 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,680 And you know, as someone who kind of has admired your work 566 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,720 and admired kind of the presence you have online, I think it is 567 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,440 amazing that you've kind of used your platform to speak up on 568 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,760 that, obviously. And the Befringe recent tour, 569 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,880 kind of what's next for you from a kind of a comedy perspective? 570 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,360 Yeah, I think at the moment I'm I'm I'm going to take a little 571 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:53,080 bit of a break from stand up just to sort of kind of refresh 572 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,240 myself or maybe come at it with some new ideas and a sort of 573 00:37:57,240 --> 00:37:58,840 fresh perspective in the new year. 574 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:04,160 And so I think now is really like the way that kind of comedy 575 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,160 or the industry sort of works going on quote is you sort of 576 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,240 build towards this kind of debut show. 577 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,160 And then afterwards it can feel a little bit, which is where I 578 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,000 am now of sort of like, what is actually next? 579 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,920 What do I want to focus on? Do I want to build towards 580 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,880 another show? Do I want to be someone who sort 581 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,680 of churns out like a show every year or every two years or 582 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,080 something? Or, you know, am I going to 583 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,840 focus on on online? Am I going to write a book? 584 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:32,920 Am I going to say all of these things? 585 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,200 So I think actually to be honest with you at the moment I'm just 586 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:40,320 taking a little bit of time to work out sort of what is is next 587 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,040 for me basically, yeah. I. 588 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:44,920 Think that's fair. And I think, you know, we all 589 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,240 need those moments where we kind of reset, kind of rethink 590 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:51,160 through kind of what we want to focus on and where we want to 591 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,160 focus our time. We started this conversation 592 00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,320 talking about your younger self, young Marks. 593 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,000 I want to revisit him. If you could give him one piece 594 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,000 of advice, what would it be? And would it be different if I 595 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,040 said, what advice would you give to a young LGBTQ plus person 596 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,120 today? I yeah, I think my advice to me 597 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,360 would definitely have been just come out on your first day of 598 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,680 uni. So yeah, because I went to a 599 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,800 really queer uni like, OK, so you. 600 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,400 Could have had a lot of fun, yeah. 601 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,480 I think I missed out on 2 1/2 years. 602 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,760 I will say, yeah, I don't regret not coming out of school. 603 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,200 I don't think my all male school friends or I were really 604 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,080 equipped with the right language to to kind of discuss that. 605 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,960 And yeah, I think I think kind of the same. 606 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,440 I think for young LGBT people, you know, obviously if it's sort 607 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,680 of safe to do so at the moment, that's kind of up in the air. 608 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:59,320 But yeah, you know, come out as soon as you can if you can. 609 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:05,280 It's obviously really sad that like the, the landscape has 610 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,160 changed a lot in the 10 years since I came out. 611 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,440 And obviously I think we believe that we're on this sort of 612 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:16,800 unending arc of justice, but in reality, we're not. 613 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:21,400 You know, things go back and forwards and, and, and back and 614 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:22,880 forwards. And at the moment it feels like 615 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,480 we're on the way back, which is sad. 616 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,800 Yeah, I've heard it described as a pendulum and it swings back 617 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,880 and forth and you just got to hope that we are kind of on that 618 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:34,520 swing back right now. But when we swing it back 619 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,160 forward, we swing it further and harder than we did before. 620 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,440 So we can only hope. And obviously, if people like 621 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,000 you who are out there kind of bringing incredible awareness 622 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,560 and having kind of putting comedy at the centre of 623 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,520 everything, but also kind of with like a really important 624 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,560 message and just good representation is super, super 625 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,880 important. Mark, thank you so much for 626 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,280 being on Quit Talk over your day. 627 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,200 It's been incredible to learn more about you. 628 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,520 We will look out for news in 2026 of more to come from you. 629 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,320 But thank you so much for being on Quit Talk with you today. 630 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,720 Amazing. Thank you for having me. 631 00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:08,880 It's been a pleasure. Quit talking