Growing up in the North East, you had to have a thick skin
because you'd end up with two broken ribs and two black eyes.
I said I've got something to tell you.
And she said, can I ask you? And I said, ask me, what do you
think you're gay? I said, Dad, there is no gay
people in Ferry Hill. There is no people like me, he
says. No, there isn't, but now there
is, and now you've got to show them how strong you are.
I think every performer should be in education and if I can get
there, make them laugh, make them smile, make them love the
night, then I can leave them with a message.
Tell your children that they can be a doctor, a teacher, a
paramedic, an astronaut, an influencer.
They can also be gay, lesbian, bai, pan, trans or anything and
you will love them regardless. Hello and welcome back to the
Queerest podcast telling the fiercest stories.
This is queer talker and I'm Ben Cicchetti.
Before we get to my conversation with the incredible drag
superstar Miss Testicle, I got a very quick favour to ask if you
enjoy this episode, hit that subscribe button.
It's one click and it's going to make a massive difference.
It's allowing me to grow this podcast, this community and keep
bringing you the best and the Queerest episodes every single
time. So in advance, thank you.
Now to my conversation with Tess PES.
We will start with my little game that I like to call Queer
Panic. Just a rapid, fast set of
questions. Get to know you a little bit
better and you just respond with the first thing that comes to
mind. Oh, it sounds fun.
I know it's going to be exciting.
What was the first album you ever owned?
Oh, it's got to be Spice Girls. I love that.
Do you know how often the Spice Girls are coming up on this
podcast and I'm not in? Spice Girls girl power I'm all
for it. I love it, I love it.
What a culture. I got all of us.
Yeah, and I don't think they get the the do they deserve for the
music was incredible, like music.
Was incredible and Victoria's not such an innocent girl.
And I'm hollering. I'm hollering, but stop right
now. Let's move on.
I love it. Well, that leads very nicely
into my next question, which is if you had to lip sync for your
life, what song would you choose?
Oh, it's got to be This is me. Great showman.
Amazing. I love that.
Great soundtrack, great film. Has to be.
OK, what is your favourite queer movie or TV show?
To 1 Foo or heart stopper. Yes, yes.
But I'm just watching your rivalry so I feel like I'm torn
between heart stopper and heated rivalry for ATV show.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a close one.
Heart stopper is like just gives me all the good feels and gives
me all the warmth. So yeah, I'm totally with you.
And he'd rather it was incredible.
What a moment in time. What a moment.
I am literally going to watch
every ice hockey game. Suddenly I'm really interested
in ice hockey. I don't know why.
Who is your ultimate queer icon? Marsha P Amazing.
Has to be, has to be, but if it was going to be UK for me.
Lily Savage. Paul O'Grady.
Yeah, what an incredible individual, and so incredible
for both parts of his career as when he, you know, was
predominantly Lily Savage, but then also as Paul O'Grady.
Like what an incredible. Just phenomenal what he's done
with charity work. And then what he projected.
Obviously Lily projected Paul into the limelight.
And what people didn't know was behind the scenes, Lily and Paul
were literally raising millions of pounds for charity and just
an impeccable comic artist and fundraiser.
Phenomenal. Yeah, I agree.
And I feel like maybe you've taken a little bit from that and
maybe we can get a little. Bit later on.
What is your biggest red flag? Biggest red flag?
I would probably say somebody who is silent, shifty.
I don't trust silence. Interesting.
Yeah, I know what you mean. That is an interesting.
Red flag. My grandfather always said a
still tongue needs a wise head. So sometimes you have to be
quiet to think about the next step.
But somebody who just doesn't speak and I'm like, I don't know
how to read yet. So that would be my biggest red
flag. Yeah, I think that's totally
fair. Who is one person you would like
to hear on this podcast? Bimini.
Yes. Absolutely, what they do on
social media and the causes they fight for, the way they are
eloquently put, the things that they write, the status is what
the the causes that they fight for.
Bimini 120%. Yeah, yeah, what an inspiration
to so many of us. And yeah, what they do, they're
one of the most knowledgeable people I hear talk about such a
broad range of topics as well. And they also opened the door
for so many other people to tell their stories.
So yeah. Intelligent, phenomenal artist.
OK, well Bimini lookout, I'm sliding into details to try and
get you on the podcast. And then finally, what is one
word you would use to describe your childhood?
One word challenging. OK.
Well, we can we can dig into
that a little bit deeper because everyone knows now that listen
to this podcast is I have this theory that, you know, to
understand an individual, an LGBTQ plus individual as an
adult, you do first need to kind of understand the them as a
young person. So what should I know about you?
You say challenging. So what should I know about you
as a child or a teenager to kind of understand the test that sits
in front of me today? Well, I think that any LGBTQIA
plus person growing up is going to be challenging because we
don't fit in. I was brought up in a very small
mining village in County Durham. And when I say small mining
village, a lot of small mines and being different was not
accepted. And if I walked a certain way,
talked a certain way, acted a certain way, if I liked certain
things that weren't the norm, then I was ridiculed.
And I often said, growing up in the Northeast, you had to have a
thick skin because you'd end up with two broken ribs and two
black eyes. People used to, I mean, I used
to get out of school early. I used to get off the bus early,
and I used to run for my door because I knew that somebody
else was running past me. I'd be a great shoplifter
because Oh my God, I can run. So that star detective is not
catching me because them bullies never caught me.
No ones did. They catch me.
I was honestly, it was traumatic, it was challenging
and people just didn't understand.
It was understanding. It was education and people just
didn't hadn't seen it before. I was brand new to them and I
didn't fit in. I was a square peg trying to go
into a round hall. It just didn't work.
But it did work. It does work.
It just wasn't, it wasn't seen, it wasn't accepted.
And I think people are were narrow minded and it's taken
somebody like me to grow up in the community because if you
don't see it, you can't accept it.
And it was just for the tellies. Like they just saw LGBT people
on the telly or they heard about them or such and such and such
as friend has come out as gay. And it was all like, Oh my God,
have you heard? Well, I was that child growing
up. I was bullied.
I was picked on and not just by children, but by adults and the
elderly, the elderly, even back in the day, they, they had such
narrow minds and it was really, really hard growing up.
But I'd probably speak for the majority of the LGBTQIA plus
community. Yeah.
It was a really difficult time, I think, to grow up.
And we didn't just add to your point.
We didn't have that representation that exists
today. You know, we touched on heart
stopper. We didn't have a heart stopper
when we were younger. And I think so much, I think a
lot about a couple of phrases. 1 is you can't be what you can't
see, which you've you've said there and also to be the person
you needed when you were younger.
And I think it's very clear that that's now what you're doing is
being that person for that. Kind of younger generation.
I just didn't see anybody like me growing up and I honestly
thought there was something wrong with me.
I thought, am I? First of all I was thinking,
have I been born in the correct body?
Have I? Am I, should I even be here?
Is there something wrong with me?
Every kind of emotion went through my head and and going
through school during Section 28 and it was never promoted and it
was never spoken about. I didn't know that there was
anybody like me that existed. And if I didn't know that,
everybody else around me aren't going to know that.
So how can they accept me for me and being my authentic self when
they have never seen anybody like me so 'cause they they are
going to pick on the not normal person in the class.
Yeah. And you touched on something
there that, you know, you didn't see anyone that looked like you
loved, like you act like you. Do you remember the first LGBTQ
plus person you did become aware of?
Like in real life but also I guess on the telly and through
movies? Well, this is kind of like a
little bit personal and I don't want to, but I am going to, I am
going to and I hope, I hope that when they, if they do see this
podcast or hear the podcast that they won't take it offensively.
But I always knew that my next door neighbour was a little bit
like me and they were older and married with children and I just
kind of homed in on, hang on a minute, you're like me and I
know you are. And I felt really comfortable
around them. I felt like I could be myself.
They weren't bothered if I was going up and down the back
street in a pair of high heels or running up and down the park
in a Tutu and and just living out my best life.
They just were not bothered. And I kind of got that
connection where I thought you're like, you're like me.
I know, I know you are. But then I was in the back of my
head, I was thinking, well, they can't because they're married
and then they've got, they've got a child.
But why do I feel so comfortable?
I just connected with this person.
But then I watched Ricki Lick with my mum and dad sat down in
the living room. I think it was 5 o'clock 5:30.
And on came the Ricki Lick show. And two contestants came on and
it turns out that one of them had came out of the closet and
they were having a whole discussion about him being gay.
And I'm thinking to myself, that's me.
That was the first time I'd ever seen a gay man on the telly.
And I looked around the room and I thought, I can't, I don't want
to look like I'm enjoying this, but I also don't want to look
like I'm, I'm connecting with this, with this series.
And then my dad said turn this shit off, I don't want this on
my telly. And then I straight away went
within myself and I thought I I can't even turn the telly on and
engage in what I think is my norm.
And that was the first time I ever realised who I was by
making a connection with someone on the telly but also somebody
in person. Yeah.
How did that feel then? You know, so many of us do know
that kind of first feeling of, oh, feeling that spark, feeling
that, oh, that's me. How did it feel to kind of see
that and make that connection, but then feel it shut down by
obviously someone who's incredibly important to you in
in your father? Euphoric, I thought.
My word, there is somebody like me going through exactly the
same thing and battling with their emotions, their feelings,
trying to suppress them and seeing it live on telly.
I thought, oh, that is it and that's me.
And then I just thought, I looked around and I was
thinking, this is this, is this normal?
Because that's me. And then shut down instantly
back into the box. And I just thought that I can't
say anything, I can't be me. And I think I was around about
11 or 12 when I saw that programme.
And I'll always remember the reaction from my dad going get
this off the telly, which will. But later in life I found out it
wasn't because of that, it was because he was just sick of
Ricky Lake on the telly when he came in from work and he was
trying to have his take. But that split sentence, I took
that as it was because of the scenario that was playing out on
the telly. I thought it was the person that
had come out as gay and it wasn't.
It was the fact that my dad was just sick of watching Ricky Lake
on the telly when he just finished the 12 hour shift.
Yeah, there was a connection there, but it wasn't the one
that we that we all thought. Absolutely not, no.
So I guess from that kind of first feeling and that kind of
feeling of that euphoria of saying this is me finally, can
I, I kind of almost have an answer to why I feel the way I
feel to then kind of feeling truly authentically yourself.
When did you feel that? And then when did you feel like
you were just going to be you? Unapologetically you, everyday
you? Well, obviously going through
school, I could never have done it.
I could never have done it in school.
My life would not be worth living.
I was already being picked on and beaten up, left school and I
was from a family that you leave school, you work, you pay, you
wear. So you're graft.
Even if you're in education, you get a job.
And I left school, went to college and I had a did, I had a
night job and I started to feel these emotions.
I was meeting different people and I was different.
I had loads of girlfriends and and my parents thought they were
my girlfriends romantically, which they were.
They were just me bezies and I started struggling because I
thought I can't, I can't come out.
I can't say what I'm really feeling and know I'm attracted
to men and I'm only attracted to men.
I love women but they're my friends.
But I am, I am gay and I struggled to say those words.
I'm gay. I passed my driving test when I
was 18 and I always remembered driving to my first job and my
first real job. I was working in education and I
was I was driving the car and I kept saying over and over to
myself, I'm gay, I'm gay. And it didn't sit well with me
because that slur, gay boy has been given to me all my life and
I would never accept it. It was like water off a duck's
back. Nothing was sinking in.
I am invincible. The walls are up, the Shields
are out, and I would not accept even me saying you're gay.
It took me months and I thought, I can't live like this, I need
to tell somebody. And over the course of around
about 10-12 months, I went from 16 stone, 10 down to about 8
stone, losing weight with stress, panicking, worrying that
I had this knot in my stomach and this story I had to tell.
It wasn't a story, it was real life and I needed to make that
happen otherwise I couldn't live my life.
So I made the decision that I would tell my parents because I
felt that it was my parents that needed to know first.
They brought me into this world. They should love and support me
regardless and it wouldn't be fair to them who've given me
everything to find out from somebody else.
So one morning I walked in to the house and at this time I'd
probably the lightest I'd ever ever been and ever will be
again. And I walked through the door
and my mum said to me are you OK?
And there are three words that I love and it's 3 words that are
not said enough. Are you OK?
Because that starts the story. It starts a conversation and
it's asking personal question where you can either be as light
as you like or go as deep as you like.
And that was my moment to go as deep as I needed to go.
And I said, no, not really. She said, what's the matter?
And I said, I've got something to tell you.
And she said, can I ask you? And I said, ask me, what do you
think you're gay? I said I think I am.
And she said, do you think or do you know?
And I said, I know. And she said, thank God for
that. Do you want a bacon sandwich?
Please eat because I have been panic and I thought there was
something seriously wrong. And this isn't serious.
This is just you getting over your own insecurities.
This is not something that you should be worrying about.
And I just burst into tears and she said I made you a bacon
sandwich. How do you feel?
And I said I feel like I've just been dug up.
I feel like a weights come off my shoulders and I feel like I'm
in the best place ever, but at the worst place I've ever been.
And she said, I don't know what you mean, you should be feeling
happy. And I said no because I've
destroyed myself for the last 12 months, but I've also been
destroyed by everybody else's opinion of me growing up.
And it's taken me 12 months to realise that this is who I am,
this is me and this is who I want to be.
And I want to be like everybody else.
I want to be as good as you and I want to have a relationship.
I want to build a family. And my mum said to me, get
yourself upstairs, go and have a lie down and come back down when
you feel good and ready. So I laid on the bed and then I
heard the door go and I just, my heart sunk all over again.
If I can't do this, it's my dad, the Ricki leg flashback.
And then I heard him go into the kitchen and then seconds later
walking up the stairs and he walked into the room.
And this is, I'm going to say the slur because it has to be
said because that was the way it was said to me.
And throughout the conversation, you'll understand how meaningful
it was. So my dad came into my bedroom
and said to me, you all right? And I said, yeah.
I said, have you spoken to my mum?
He said, yeah. He says, what do you think?
He says, dry your eyes, your big puff, and come downstairs.
And I went, is that it? He said, yeah, He says, come
downstairs. So anyway, I went downstairs and
he said to me why? Are you worried about what we
think? I said, Dad, there is no gay
people in Ferryhill. There is no people like me, he
says no, there isn't, but now there is.
And now you've got to show them how strong you are, he says.
Because now there is a person that somebody else can look up
to. Now get in the car.
We got the beach, we got to the beach, we walked onto the sand,
we walked for about a mile without a word being said and I
always say silence is my biggest red flag because there was no
conversation but because I knew the people.
I was walking along that beach with my mum and my dad walking
along that beach for a mile. By the end of the beach,
everything that was needed to be said was said without words.
We came off that beach and the rest is history and they have
supported me to be me the way I am.
However I want to live my life there behind me.
So yeah, that was my childhood and a little bit a little bit of
of fabric history as well. That's amazing.
Like I think for the first time on this podcast, I'm a little
bit lost for words. That's such an incredible story,
an incredible kind of like journey to have gone on with
your parents where there was this kind of feeling of one
thing, you know, after that Ricki Lake experience to how it
ended. And I just think that first
person you tell their reaction can be such a shape of how every
reaction went. I've, I think I've told this
stuff before. I told my best friend over the
phone. He was living in Australia and I
called him and I was kind of dithering about saying it.
You know when you're trying to, you're trying to find out how
to. Figure.
Out and he just kind of said, look, I know what you're going
to say, but it's actually really important that you say the words
and that was so important that I said it and that just made every
other time after that that little bit easier because you
had that good experience. So yeah, I love hearing about
that experience. Absolutely.
It's just it was so difficult for me to accept me.
How could I have asked anybody to accept me if I didn't accept
myself? And I did, and I found the time
and told my parents. But my biggest fear was to be
outed by somebody else and may not have the decency to tell the
those that I love the most first.
Yeah, yeah. It's hard, it's hard.
We shouldn't have to come out and I'm fight for that.
We don't need to come out. All we need to say is Mum, Dad,
our loved ones. This is who I love.
Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of the
ultimate sign of equality is when we just don't need to come
out anymore one day, just turn up with a partner or not a
partner, if that, you know, depending on how you feel.
And that is who you are. And that's kind of accepted.
So what does life look like after that?
And I'm obviously fascinated by kind of origin stories.
I'd love to hear about how you then got started in drag and
kind of how you are now, who you are sat in front of me.
Yeah. So I spent some years finding
myself and being comfortable with myself and being open and
out in Fairy Hill, or as I like to call it Fairy Hill now
because it's fun. It is and I love it.
So I made sure that I was comfortable with myself, lived
my life. I met my partner and we've been
together 18 years now and just going around County Durham and
being visual. And I wanted that from the very
beginning because I've never seen another LGBT person.
So I wanted to make it my mission to show that I'm in love
with somebody. And if somebody else is out
shopping and they see me, maybe he's shown some affection or
holding hands. Or if asked, is this your
partner? Yes, it is just being open and
honest with everybody. Ask me an honest question.
I'll give you an honest answer always.
And I wanted to be that kind of visibility for the people in the
village and the wider community that this is normal and you
shouldn't have to feel like you're not because look at me,
I'm living my life and I'm living my best life.
And I found love and then came a family party and they said, do
you know what we would really love?
A drag queen at the party to take the Mick out of somebody's
30th birthday. And I said, well, I can do that.
And I've watched and admired local drag since I came out the
closet. And since I was out there, I was
on the local scenes and watching the legends of drag in the North
East. And I just adored it.
And I thought, you know what, I'm going to give it a go.
I'm going to have a go. So I rocked up to this 30th
birthday party and in full drag. And my best friend said to me,
you look amazing. Can we get a lift to the party?
And I've touched on this before and I said, yeah, I'll ring my
dad, he'll take me. So I rang my dad and he'd never
seen me in Drug. I hadn't even seen in Drug.
And I walked downstairs for the very first time and I said to
me, Dad, dad, what do you think? He said, well, I don't know why
the fuck you're a fight? Yeah.
And I said I know we're from the North East where incest is best,
but don't smudge me lipstick because we do at the party at
7:00 anywhere. We got in the car, went to the
party and my best friend said to me there's a competition going
on in Newcastle, you should enter it and it's six weeks.
If you win, you win £350 and with that money we can go to
Benidorm. So I entered the competition, I
did the six weeks, won the competition, won the £350, spent
six and a half, 1000 lbs doing it and never went to Benidorm.
So I was furious over the Mirror that I want.
Yeah. And then from there, drag just
spiralled and I ended up working seven nights a week for the
first five or six years and dropping down to five nights a
week. And then as I'm getting a little
bit older and approaching 40, I've gone down to four nights a
week. And as they say, the rest's
history or history. There we go.
I think it's so interesting though, because so many of us
and so many for so many in the mainstream, kind of our
perspective of drag and the life of a drag queen is shaped
obviously by RuPaul's Drag Race giving it such a mainstream show
now. But talk to me about what life
is like for a drag queen in the UK right now.
Like what is that kind of experience on a daily, weekly
basis? So for me, drag is life and I
wake up being creative. I go to bed being creative.
Some of my best ideas is when I'm hitting the pillow at 12-1
in the morning and all the ideas start flooding into my head and
I'm thinking, right, I've got to get up, I've got to make this
music, I've got to write this down.
Drag, drag. Before Drag Race was cutthroat,
it was difficult to get gigs. It wasn't mainstream, and I am.
I'm very different to quite a lot of the scene Queens because
I don't tend to work a lot of gay scenes.
I'm primarily straight audiences working men's clubs.
It's probably some of the roughest areas in the country is
where I'll perform and they for me, the salt of the earth and
rough and ready. What you see is what you get.
And the banter, Northern banter, it's just it's, it's cutthroat.
It really is brutal. But I live on it and I thrive on
it. I don't do script.
What I say, I say the audience is my script.
So drag before drag race was difficult and you had to tread
the boards, you had to graft you.
We have gone from toilet cubicles to outside changing
rooms to portaloos to the back of the car and I was gigging 7
nights a week, different venues up and down the country.
I would work anywhere that would have me, if there was a stage, a
platform, a microphone, that was my time to perform and educate.
And if I could get my my main reason for doing a lot of the
straight audiences is because I think every performer should be
in education. And if I can get there, make
them laugh, make them smile, make them love the night, then I
can leave them with a message and then they can go home and
they can say I've been to see a drag queen and she was this and
I'm accepting. But then Drag Race came along
and projected these fabulous Queens into the ether and then
then you started withdrawing a little bit and wanting to put on
obviously the Drag Race girls rather than the local talent.
And the Drag Race girls are phenomenally talented and I
would never take work away from them ever.
I love, I love them. I've got some really good
friends that have done Drag Race and I just found it difficult at
that time to continue that kind of level of drag and then that
level of bookings where I was booked seven nights a week,
booked and blessed. And it became harder.
But actually, although it was hard, it gave me the fire in my
stomach to go hang on a minute. I need to keep these bookings, I
need to keep these venues, and I need to keep the roof over my
head. We need to diversify.
We need to get better. We need to go bigger, we need to
go better. We need to try more.
We need to work more, not just go, oh, do you know what?
It's hard. The bookings aren't falling my
feet. No, I'm a grafter.
I'll work for everything I can get.
Because if you dream it, you can achieve it.
But you've got to work damn hard to get it.
So don't expect things to fall on your lap and this and this
amazing competition that's been now plastered all over our
screens and into the mainstream is actually a blessing because
drag is now at the forefront of entertainer entertainment.
Bookers, minds, TV, stage shows, theatre, the cabaret circuit
worker, men's clubs, gay scenes, cruise ships.
We are everywhere and there is enough work for everyone.
You've just got to go out there and get it.
Make yourself a little bit different.
So Drag Race made it difficult, but it has produced and
projected some of the most amazing drag artists that the UK
have to offer. And for that I will be forever
grateful because I've learned so much from Drag Race and from the
Queen's. Because every single Queen has a
different story and I'm ready to read every single page.
Yeah, you said something that's so interesting to me, which is
around, you know, every performance is an opportunity
for education. I think, you know, that is one
of the things I think Drag Race has also done, which is there
are so many to your point, incredible stories, incredible
backgrounds, you know, challenges people have faced,
different lifestyles people have that.
I think it's such and because it is so mainstream, it is such an
incredible way to get that kind of education out there and that
kind of lived experience out there.
And you've obviously spent much of your working life in
education and safeguarding kind of vulnerable children.
How did that experience in the education space kind of shape
the way you do show up as tests both on stage and then I guess
around and in the community? Well, when you go on stage as
tests, you've got to show up, you've got to turn up, but
you've got to be visible for those kids who were just like
you sat at that classroom desk, who was struggling with the fact
that they were LGBT plus. So when I go on stage, I want to
make sure that I educate because I'm doing it for the next
generation to make it easier to pave the way like the Queens
before me did. And the LGBT community paved the
way for people like me. So 50 years ago it was even
worse. And we're gradually making it
easier. And if I can help one single
person, if I can make it easier for them, then I've done my job.
One person, if I can change one mind if I can, if there is a
parent in that audience, I always finish my show with.
Please tell your children that they can be a doctor, a teacher,
a paramedic, an astronaut, an influencer.
They can also be gay, lesbian, Bipan, trans, or anything that
they choose to be and you will love them regardless.
If they can do that, then I've done my job and if I'm seeing
300 people a night, I'm reaching so many families and hopefully
making it easier for the children within them, their
family and turning up at work and children.
Knowing what I do. I keep no secrets.
At the end of the day, they ask me an honest question.
I will be honest because during Section 28, if you were asked if
you were gay, you could not say that you were, you could not
promote it, but you could not diss it.
And then in my day job, what I tend to say is my partner,
husband, or I'll say, if it comes to drag, I'll go, yes, I'm
a drag queen. What's a drag queen?
And I'll tell them and what do you do on a night time?
And I'll tell them that I'm a performer, I can DJ a Hostess, A
Hostess, I'm a cabaret queen, I'm a lip sync queen.
And, and I'll be honest with them.
And it sparks conversation because conversation is what is
needed for understanding. So you can open that
conversation up. It can be as easy as just saying
Tom Daly, medallist, Olympian, gold medallist.
He's gay. Yeah.
And moving on to the next person, just dropping a little
tiny segment into the lesson plans.
It also helps children understand that they do belong
and if they are not part of the community, it helps them
understand and helps them empathise with the people who
are going through what they're going through.
But it also normalises we can normalise the language by saying
gay, that isn't a slur, you're gay.
It's a good thing if we can normalise the language, usualize
the language, it becomes ingrained in our society.
So if we can get a child to connect and think I belong,
we've saved lives. We've potentially saved lives.
Education is key and children deserve to be educated about the
whole world, not part of it. Yeah, I completely agree.
It's such an important conversation to had.
Obviously our 2nd guest ever on Queer Talker was our mutual
friend Ollie Pike. And the incredible work Ollie
does with Pop and Ollie, I just think it's so important to turn
up and for people to see so many different people from so many
different backgrounds because to your point, it does normalise
it. And then these children as they
grow up, they won't have learned because, you know,
discrimination, homophobia, transphobia, biphobia, all the
phobias are a learned behaviour. They're not built into them.
That's where they can see. Born.
We are not born homophobic, racist.
We are taught those things. No child is born that way.
And as Davina Decampo said, your belief is my existence.
So my existence, I'm here, I'm living.
You might believe one thing, but this is me.
And do you think, I guess two things really, Do you think
obviously your passion for this is kind of sparked by something
that was missing from obviously your childhood, my childhood
experience? And to what degree does does the
work of people like Paul O'Grady, Lily Savage kind of
help you feel that that's the party you wanted to go on?
Because it would have been easy to not write.
It would have been easy to kind of keep those, keep those worlds
separately. But how much of an inspiration
did you take from someone like a Lily Savage?
Paul O'Grady? I took a lot of inspiration from
Paul O'Grady when I saw all the charity work that they were
doing and also the good that they were doing for the
community. And my community Once Upon a
time was against me and I thought, well, how can I change
the perceptions of my community and and make it easier for
everybody else? So me and a group of people got
together and with the forefront of drag and it's in the
mainstream. It was in the mainstream at that
time and seeing all of the amazing work that the Queens
before me had done for charity. And we were getting asked all of
the time, can you do a charity event for this?
Can you do a charity event for that?
And we just couldn't physically do it.
And then I thought to myself, hang on a minute.
Lily Savage was a massive advocate for charity work as as
Paul O'Grady as well. I would like to do that, but
would people support it? I'm a drag queen in a in the
local area where I've had so much difficulty just being me.
Now I'm a drag queen on social media, on the stages, in the
working men's clubs, the local pubs and bars.
How are they going to take to this?
So I thought, you know what, I'm going to set up my own charity
and Claire McGregor, who's our CEO, came with me and at the
time it was Betty Moffett and Scarlett Moffett and my drag
Queens, Miss Cara, Emma Royde and a team of trustees.
We all got together and said we've got an idea.
We want to give back to our local community, those people
who have helped us. It's now time to help them.
And I couldn't be a drag queen without the support of the
people who come to see me. So my way of giving back to my
audience was helping them when they needed the help the most.
And I know I needed help back in the day, I could have done with
a helping hand. So we set up Angel Trust, a
charity for the people and it was fronted by drag Queens and
allies and just well-rounded people.
We're a group of people who have all been through similar
experiences, whether you're LGBT or heterosexual.
They were part of the same group of people who had the same
experience as I did. But we said let's do this.
So we did, and eight years ago Angel Trust was formed and I
wanted to give back to the local community and help the people
who might have Once Upon a time frowned upon me, or they know
somebody who probably didn't accept me, but it was now my
time to change their perception and go.
Do you know what? Actually, she's really nice and
she's lovely and although she's a drag queen, she's also the.
Little boy that and maybe he's once picked on or would have
picked on and I don't want that because she's doing so good for
the for the community. And I wanted to make sure that
we had counselling and we also want to had suicide prevention
and we wanted to tackle homelessness.
And we also wanted to help save all of the food that goes to
landfills and reuse it and open a pantry and A food bank and a
Bistro and a charity shop. But we also wanted to do
fundraising and have a central point to donate to worthy
causes, whether that be a children's football team, an
aspiring sportsperson, an LGBT group to support local housing
or toy appeal. We did the toy appeal to give
back to children who wouldn't have a present to open on
Christmas Day and we ended up having 45,000 toys this current
Christmas to give out to the local people of County Durham
and Darling. And now our night hub has gone
from a night hub to having housing to help get people off
the streets, give them a warm bed and a roof above the head.
And it's just phenomenal how it snowballed and got bigger and
bigger and bigger. And we have got a lot to thank
the community for because the community have helped build the
charity. But from what I, what I've got
from that charity is people aren't against me, they standing
with me. And from Once Upon a time when I
wasn't the norm and didn't fit in, now I am the norm.
I'm fitting in and they're standing with me rather than
against me. And for me that is everything.
Yeah, I love that. What an incredible organisation
to kind of have seen grow and to have really pushed through the
community. We will include a link to to you
all in the the podcast description.
Please do check out the Angel Trust.
It's such an incredibly, incredibly important
organisation. I think one thing I'm curious to
understand, you know, we talked about your experience as a young
person where you grew up, but you've chosen to kind of stay
rooted where you grew up. So, so many people would have
would have left, right? So many people would have had
such a maybe a negative experience, negative impression
of that area. They would have said, I don't
want to be here anymore. I'm going to go to this city or
this town and kind of live my truth.
But you stayed where you are. What does it mean to you today?
You talked about, you know, all these people that would have
picked on you. Now you're so visible.
What does it mean to you personally to be so visibly
queer and deeply trusted in the community that you once felt
unsafe in? It means the absolute world and
I will fight tooth and nail to ensure that LGBT is across my
hometown because it's so it feels powerful.
What we've done is, is powerful and knowing that I'm making a
difference and making it easier for people like me to come out
and and just be queer in the area that they grow up in.
We shouldn't have to move away. By moving away, you're moving a
problem. That's what people think.
You're moving the problem. We're not the problem.
And with problems, you need solutions and with solutions,
you've eradicated the problem. That solution is acceptance.
Accept me, love me, and let's work together because together
we're great. Separate, it's not going to be
as good. And I always say that if
everybody wants, everybody would like a Lamborghini.
But if everyone drove a Lamborghini, you wouldn't want
to drive 1, you would want a Fiesta.
So it takes so many different people to make the world go
around. And I wanted to stay.
I should have packed. I, I always think I should have
packed up my bags and just less than it would have been easier.
But I thought, no, I'm staying here.
I mean, walking down the street and getting an egg thrown at you
and like called the F word and I'm like, all right, OK.
I'm like, oh, I just need to get out of here.
I need to go to London. You go to Manchester, you go to
Brighton. I need to get out of here.
But I thought, no, I'm not. And I, I will fight tooth and
nail to be visible and be that person.
I come in the house dressed as a boy and I leave the house
dressed in a blonde wig, walk into the van and now people are
Tooting the horns and go why? How your Tess, are you all
right? And I'm like, yeah, I'm good,
how are you? I've got children out the front
who are rolling up and down on the on the roller skates saying,
oh, Tess, can we have a picture? My mum loves you.
And I'm like, yeah, come and get a picture and I will walk into
Greg's and go and get a steak bake and I will be in full drag
before we show because why not? Why not?
Sure, this is fine. I mean, I'll do any, anything in
my local area dressed like this and you've just got to have a
really good comeback. But what really annoyed me in my
local area, which on my 30th birthday, I was having a party
and well, it was a bit like a garden party.
And this car has said to me, have you seen what's happening
in the town that you adore? And I said, what?
He said they seen the local mayor and I said no, check his
Facebook. So how came the phone?
And there was loads of homophobic, transphobic,
racists, Islamophobic slurs, means nastiness all down his
profile. The blood rushed to my head and
I thought, you know what, I thought we were getting
somewhere. I really did.
With everybody around here now loves us and everyone's
accepting we can be who we want to be.
And then I saw that and Cara and my partner said to me, test
Dawn, Dawn, whatever you're going to do, just Dawn, it's
your birthday. Just don't do anything.
Look at it next week. I said no, just because it's my
birthday, just because it's a day you have to call these
things out. You've we've got to do something
about it. He's the mayor of our hometown.
How can he be spouting so much hate in a position of power when
he's got the whole of the community to look after?
And he's segregating. Yeah, he segregate in the
community. I can't stand for it.
So out came the phone. War and peace status went into
the ether. And I thought 5 minutes in,
ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping ping.
And I thought what have I done? What have I done?
Because with the positivity and the support came the hate.
And then the hate came because they were in support of our town
mayor. And I thought, you know what,
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
And I've been here before and I've won one battle, It's time
for another. And I'm ready for war.
And he then started putting things on.
This is my views, and these are my religious beliefs.
And I said I understand religion.
However, your belief is other people's existence.
And in a position of power, you should be impartial and you
should be leading with positivity, love, equality and
diversity. That fell on deaf ears and it
was not what I wanted to hear from him, so I took it further.
I know the status went out and then ABBC reporter and ITV News
reporter rang me and said what are you doing tomorrow?
And I said, well I meant to be going to a spa for me 30th
birthday. I said I'm leaving at 8:30.
And he said Tesla would really like you to do the news.
We need to put a piece out about the hate that you're receiving
online and also from your town there.
And I said, well, I'll have to be up at silly o'clock because I
have to do it. I can't do it as me because
nobody knows it as no knows me as me.
Everybody knows Tess. Well, can you be ready for 8:30
in the morning? And I said, yeah, I was up in
makeup. 8:30, full drag in my living room, news reporters,
cameras in my face. And I sat there and told my side
of the story and why I thought a man in position of power spout
in hate is wrong for our community but wrong full stop.
And it went out on time, Tease News, BBC News.
And I was relieved I'd done it, terrified I'd done it.
I was fearful because people didn't share my views.
And I get that everyone's different and have a right to
their opinion. However, the hate that I got
from that was horrific. My house was targeted, my car
was targeted and the irony of it all was somebody counted up the
back lane how many gates? However the first house has
their back gate on the side of the house and they counted 3
doors up and smashed my next door neighbour's gate in.
But I saw the funny side and I put the status out saying
whoever that was who has attempted to destroy someone's
back gate, it wasn't mine. But the moral of the story is
you smash the wrong back gates and then it weren't mine.
So and then about two weeks later I was called to the town
hall and cutting a Long story short, our town mayor was had to
stand down and stood down firstly off his own merit.
However, he was a vote of no confidence from everybody in the
town hall. So my mayor was no longer.
And from that day on, the pride flag has flown outside our town
hall for Pride month, for Durham Prize, for Newcastle Prize and
it's now celebrated. Pride is now celebrated here in
my hometown and I absolutely love that.
And I can't, I can't move away. I won't move away.
And even if I do for a short period of time, my heart will
always be here because I want to make sure that nobody ever has
to go through what I went through all those years ago.
Yeah. And I think, you know, that's an
incredible story. But one of the things I took
from is this idea that there is a There's a kid who's so
thankful that you didn't move away.
There's a kid who sees you, sees themself reflected in you, and
knows that they also can live a fulfilling, happy, successful
life in that town and not have to escape it.
Absolutely, Absolutely. I think that sometimes when you
see a, you see a drag queen, you see the face, you see the
facade, you see the ACT, you don't see the deeper side of the
artist. And that for me is really is
really deep. I want to make a difference and
that's why I get up and go five nights a week, five days a week
and do the charity because I want to make a difference.
And behind every queen there's a real person and it's a real
person who's probably making a difference because they've been
through so much in their lifetime.
It's it. And I'm hoping, I'm hoping I am
making a difference and they can look at me and go, do you know
what? She works in a school, she's
educated, she's also a business lady.
She also runs a charity. I could do that.
And I'm going to have a go just like I did all them years ago
when I watched The Queens. And I thought, I want to do
that. I'm going to.
And if I can inspire someone, I'll be absolutely over the
moon. If I could inspire a young
person, which is to be who they want to be, or inspire anyone to
be who they want to be and live their authentic selves and work
damn hard and go out and achieve their dreams, I'm all for it.
I'll be over the moon. I promise you, you are.
I can, I can guarantee it. And obviously, we started this
conversation talking about your younger self.
So let's end the conversation talking about them as well.
If you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what
would it be? And would it be different if I
said, what advice would you give in general to young LGBTQ plus
people today? The advice I would give to
myself if I could speak to my younger self, don't worry,
everything is going to be OK. You are going through the
hardest time of your life right now, but things are going to
change. But you need to go through these
hard times because they are just the stones to build your
foundations. They are your foundations.
Use it, grow from it, learn from it and be better.
Be better, work hard because you've got this.
You are not different. You are you and just be you.
I love that. And then to a younger person,
right now, I use a phrase quite a lot.
And that phrase is every year a farmer spreads manure across a
field. And sometimes people will spread
awful things about you or target you, but the reason that farmer
spreads that manure across that field every year is to ensure a
bigger and better crop next year.
So the crap that you're going through right now is just the
fertiliser to make you bigger and better next year and the
year after and the year after that.
Because one day you'll stand taller than you are now and
you'll be reaching the stars. And that's what you are, a *.
I love that. That's so incredible.
Tess, thank you so much for being on the podcast with me.
But I just think thank you so much for your incredible work.
The visibility you bring, the representation you bring, the
education you bring, the thoughtfulness you bring your
work in the community is so important.
I can promise you. You said you know you don't want
anyone to you. There was no one who looked like
you when you were younger. Act like you taught like you
when you're you are now that person for so many people
globally across the country, especially in your hometown.
So thank you so much for everything you do and for
everyone in your hometown. Thank you for being that
representation for them. Thank you so much for having me.
It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.