1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,360 Growing up in the North East, you had to have a thick skin 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,240 because you'd end up with two broken ribs and two black eyes. 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,160 I said I've got something to tell you. 4 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:21,240 And she said, can I ask you? And I said, ask me, what do you 5 00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:25,920 think you're gay? I said, Dad, there is no gay 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,200 people in Ferry Hill. There is no people like me, he 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,680 says. No, there isn't, but now there 8 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,680 is, and now you've got to show them how strong you are. 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,360 I think every performer should be in education and if I can get 10 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,080 there, make them laugh, make them smile, make them love the 11 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,600 night, then I can leave them with a message. 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,080 Tell your children that they can be a doctor, a teacher, a 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,760 paramedic, an astronaut, an influencer. 14 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,440 They can also be gay, lesbian, bai, pan, trans or anything and 15 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,680 you will love them regardless. Hello and welcome back to the 16 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,040 Queerest podcast telling the fiercest stories. 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,160 This is queer talker and I'm Ben Cicchetti. 18 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,040 Before we get to my conversation with the incredible drag 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,000 superstar Miss Testicle, I got a very quick favour to ask if you 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,440 enjoy this episode, hit that subscribe button. 21 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,920 It's one click and it's going to make a massive difference. 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,720 It's allowing me to grow this podcast, this community and keep 23 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,640 bringing you the best and the Queerest episodes every single 24 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,680 time. So in advance, thank you. 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,600 Now to my conversation with Tess PES. 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,880 We will start with my little game that I like to call Queer 27 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,480 Panic. Just a rapid, fast set of 28 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:35,960 questions. Get to know you a little bit 29 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,200 better and you just respond with the first thing that comes to 30 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:39,800 mind. Oh, it sounds fun. 31 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,320 I know it's going to be exciting. 32 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,120 What was the first album you ever owned? 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,160 Oh, it's got to be Spice Girls. I love that. 34 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,360 Do you know how often the Spice Girls are coming up on this 35 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,440 podcast and I'm not in? Spice Girls girl power I'm all 36 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,840 for it. I love it, I love it. 37 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,240 What a culture. I got all of us. 38 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,480 Yeah, and I don't think they get the the do they deserve for the 39 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:04,320 music was incredible, like music. 40 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,160 Was incredible and Victoria's not such an innocent girl. 41 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,840 And I'm hollering. I'm hollering, but stop right 42 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:11,760 now. Let's move on. 43 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,400 I love it. Well, that leads very nicely 44 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,000 into my next question, which is if you had to lip sync for your 45 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,040 life, what song would you choose? 46 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:23,680 Oh, it's got to be This is me. Great showman. 47 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:26,440 Amazing. I love that. 48 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,800 Great soundtrack, great film. Has to be. 49 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:33,280 OK, what is your favourite queer movie or TV show? 50 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:40,040 To 1 Foo or heart stopper. Yes, yes. 51 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,840 But I'm just watching your rivalry so I feel like I'm torn 52 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,600 between heart stopper and heated rivalry for ATV show. 53 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,600 Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a close one. 54 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,120 Heart stopper is like just gives me all the good feels and gives 55 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,480 me all the warmth. So yeah, I'm totally with you. 56 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,760 And he'd rather it was incredible. 57 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,520 What a moment in time. What a moment. 58 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,440 What a moment. I am literally going to watch 59 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,240 every ice hockey game. Suddenly I'm really interested 60 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:06,320 in ice hockey. I don't know why. 61 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,680 Who is your ultimate queer icon? Marsha P Amazing. 62 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:21,080 Has to be, has to be, but if it was going to be UK for me. 63 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:23,240 Lily Savage. Paul O'Grady. 64 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:29,720 Yeah, what an incredible individual, and so incredible 65 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,920 for both parts of his career as when he, you know, was 66 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,520 predominantly Lily Savage, but then also as Paul O'Grady. 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,600 Like what an incredible. Just phenomenal what he's done 68 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,600 with charity work. And then what he projected. 69 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,560 Obviously Lily projected Paul into the limelight. 70 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:47,560 And what people didn't know was behind the scenes, Lily and Paul 71 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:51,600 were literally raising millions of pounds for charity and just 72 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:56,720 an impeccable comic artist and fundraiser. 73 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,960 Phenomenal. Yeah, I agree. 74 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,880 And I feel like maybe you've taken a little bit from that and 75 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,440 maybe we can get a little. Bit later on. 76 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,520 What is your biggest red flag? Biggest red flag? 77 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:15,040 I would probably say somebody who is silent, shifty. 78 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,160 I don't trust silence. Interesting. 79 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,079 Yeah, I know what you mean. That is an interesting. 80 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:21,959 Red flag. My grandfather always said a 81 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:24,880 still tongue needs a wise head. So sometimes you have to be 82 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,000 quiet to think about the next step. 83 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,760 But somebody who just doesn't speak and I'm like, I don't know 84 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,040 how to read yet. So that would be my biggest red 85 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,040 flag. Yeah, I think that's totally 86 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,800 fair. Who is one person you would like 87 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,360 to hear on this podcast? Bimini. 88 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:49,200 Yes. Absolutely, what they do on 89 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,800 social media and the causes they fight for, the way they are 90 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,080 eloquently put, the things that they write, the status is what 91 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,920 the the causes that they fight for. 92 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,640 Bimini 120%. Yeah, yeah, what an inspiration 93 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,360 to so many of us. And yeah, what they do, they're 94 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,440 one of the most knowledgeable people I hear talk about such a 95 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:11,800 broad range of topics as well. And they also opened the door 96 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,960 for so many other people to tell their stories. 97 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,800 So yeah. Intelligent, phenomenal artist. 98 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,240 OK, well Bimini lookout, I'm sliding into details to try and 99 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,840 get you on the podcast. And then finally, what is one 100 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:26,440 word you would use to describe your childhood? 101 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,320 One word challenging. OK. 102 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:37,840 OK. Well, we can we can dig into 103 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:40,640 that a little bit deeper because everyone knows now that listen 104 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,960 to this podcast is I have this theory that, you know, to 105 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,400 understand an individual, an LGBTQ plus individual as an 106 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,480 adult, you do first need to kind of understand the them as a 107 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,800 young person. So what should I know about you? 108 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,160 You say challenging. So what should I know about you 109 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,120 as a child or a teenager to kind of understand the test that sits 110 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:04,120 in front of me today? Well, I think that any LGBTQIA 111 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:08,360 plus person growing up is going to be challenging because we 112 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:13,000 don't fit in. I was brought up in a very small 113 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:19,320 mining village in County Durham. And when I say small mining 114 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,680 village, a lot of small mines and being different was not 115 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,240 accepted. And if I walked a certain way, 116 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,840 talked a certain way, acted a certain way, if I liked certain 117 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:35,560 things that weren't the norm, then I was ridiculed. 118 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,320 And I often said, growing up in the Northeast, you had to have a 119 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,040 thick skin because you'd end up with two broken ribs and two 120 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,920 black eyes. People used to, I mean, I used 121 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,000 to get out of school early. I used to get off the bus early, 122 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,880 and I used to run for my door because I knew that somebody 123 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,640 else was running past me. I'd be a great shoplifter 124 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,520 because Oh my God, I can run. So that star detective is not 125 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,040 catching me because them bullies never caught me. 126 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,520 No ones did. They catch me. 127 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:07,960 I was honestly, it was traumatic, it was challenging 128 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,720 and people just didn't understand. 129 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,320 It was understanding. It was education and people just 130 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,840 didn't hadn't seen it before. I was brand new to them and I 131 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,760 didn't fit in. I was a square peg trying to go 132 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,680 into a round hall. It just didn't work. 133 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,720 But it did work. It does work. 134 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,280 It just wasn't, it wasn't seen, it wasn't accepted. 135 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:37,160 And I think people are were narrow minded and it's taken 136 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,800 somebody like me to grow up in the community because if you 137 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,960 don't see it, you can't accept it. 138 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,600 And it was just for the tellies. Like they just saw LGBT people 139 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,640 on the telly or they heard about them or such and such and such 140 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,400 as friend has come out as gay. And it was all like, Oh my God, 141 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,400 have you heard? Well, I was that child growing 142 00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,280 up. I was bullied. 143 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:04,800 I was picked on and not just by children, but by adults and the 144 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:09,440 elderly, the elderly, even back in the day, they, they had such 145 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,360 narrow minds and it was really, really hard growing up. 146 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,320 But I'd probably speak for the majority of the LGBTQIA plus 147 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,320 community. Yeah. 148 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,280 It was a really difficult time, I think, to grow up. 149 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,440 And we didn't just add to your point. 150 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,280 We didn't have that representation that exists 151 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,120 today. You know, we touched on heart 152 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:29,600 stopper. We didn't have a heart stopper 153 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,480 when we were younger. And I think so much, I think a 154 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,159 lot about a couple of phrases. 1 is you can't be what you can't 155 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:39,760 see, which you've you've said there and also to be the person 156 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,039 you needed when you were younger. 157 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,159 And I think it's very clear that that's now what you're doing is 158 00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:45,800 being that person for that. Kind of younger generation. 159 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,680 I just didn't see anybody like me growing up and I honestly 160 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:51,560 thought there was something wrong with me. 161 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,560 I thought, am I? First of all I was thinking, 162 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,600 have I been born in the correct body? 163 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,720 Have I? Am I, should I even be here? 164 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,360 Is there something wrong with me? 165 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,120 Every kind of emotion went through my head and and going 166 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:14,160 through school during Section 28 and it was never promoted and it 167 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,720 was never spoken about. I didn't know that there was 168 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:22,000 anybody like me that existed. And if I didn't know that, 169 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,000 everybody else around me aren't going to know that. 170 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:30,360 So how can they accept me for me and being my authentic self when 171 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:35,160 they have never seen anybody like me so 'cause they they are 172 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,400 going to pick on the not normal person in the class. 173 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:41,880 Yeah. And you touched on something 174 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,240 there that, you know, you didn't see anyone that looked like you 175 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,640 loved, like you act like you. Do you remember the first LGBTQ 176 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,320 plus person you did become aware of? 177 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,920 Like in real life but also I guess on the telly and through 178 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,480 movies? Well, this is kind of like a 179 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,840 little bit personal and I don't want to, but I am going to, I am 180 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,760 going to and I hope, I hope that when they, if they do see this 181 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:07,320 podcast or hear the podcast that they won't take it offensively. 182 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,320 But I always knew that my next door neighbour was a little bit 183 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:17,680 like me and they were older and married with children and I just 184 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:22,120 kind of homed in on, hang on a minute, you're like me and I 185 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,880 know you are. And I felt really comfortable 186 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,400 around them. I felt like I could be myself. 187 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,680 They weren't bothered if I was going up and down the back 188 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:35,480 street in a pair of high heels or running up and down the park 189 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:39,160 in a Tutu and and just living out my best life. 190 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,080 They just were not bothered. And I kind of got that 191 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,720 connection where I thought you're like, you're like me. 192 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,280 I know, I know you are. But then I was in the back of my 193 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,840 head, I was thinking, well, they can't because they're married 194 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,920 and then they've got, they've got a child. 195 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:54,920 But why do I feel so comfortable? 196 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:56,400 I just connected with this person. 197 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:02,720 But then I watched Ricki Lick with my mum and dad sat down in 198 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:06,080 the living room. I think it was 5 o'clock 5:30. 199 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:12,200 And on came the Ricki Lick show. And two contestants came on and 200 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:17,240 it turns out that one of them had came out of the closet and 201 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:21,720 they were having a whole discussion about him being gay. 202 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,600 And I'm thinking to myself, that's me. 203 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,080 That was the first time I'd ever seen a gay man on the telly. 204 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:32,800 And I looked around the room and I thought, I can't, I don't want 205 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,760 to look like I'm enjoying this, but I also don't want to look 206 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,760 like I'm, I'm connecting with this, with this series. 207 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:47,720 And then my dad said turn this shit off, I don't want this on 208 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:52,680 my telly. And then I straight away went 209 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:56,560 within myself and I thought I I can't even turn the telly on and 210 00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:00,320 engage in what I think is my norm. 211 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,880 And that was the first time I ever realised who I was by 212 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,080 making a connection with someone on the telly but also somebody 213 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,960 in person. Yeah. 214 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,680 How did that feel then? You know, so many of us do know 215 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:16,720 that kind of first feeling of, oh, feeling that spark, feeling 216 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,920 that, oh, that's me. How did it feel to kind of see 217 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,920 that and make that connection, but then feel it shut down by 218 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,880 obviously someone who's incredibly important to you in 219 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,080 in your father? Euphoric, I thought. 220 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:32,240 My word, there is somebody like me going through exactly the 221 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:37,160 same thing and battling with their emotions, their feelings, 222 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,280 trying to suppress them and seeing it live on telly. 223 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,360 I thought, oh, that is it and that's me. 224 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,120 And then I just thought, I looked around and I was 225 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,480 thinking, this is this, is this normal? 226 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,760 Because that's me. And then shut down instantly 227 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:57,880 back into the box. And I just thought that I can't 228 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,920 say anything, I can't be me. And I think I was around about 229 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,520 11 or 12 when I saw that programme. 230 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:11,480 And I'll always remember the reaction from my dad going get 231 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,640 this off the telly, which will. But later in life I found out it 232 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,920 wasn't because of that, it was because he was just sick of 233 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,920 Ricky Lake on the telly when he came in from work and he was 234 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:27,520 trying to have his take. But that split sentence, I took 235 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,560 that as it was because of the scenario that was playing out on 236 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:34,200 the telly. I thought it was the person that 237 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,000 had come out as gay and it wasn't. 238 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,960 It was the fact that my dad was just sick of watching Ricky Lake 239 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,960 on the telly when he just finished the 12 hour shift. 240 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,320 Yeah, there was a connection there, but it wasn't the one 241 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,720 that we that we all thought. Absolutely not, no. 242 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,800 So I guess from that kind of first feeling and that kind of 243 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,840 feeling of that euphoria of saying this is me finally, can 244 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,360 I, I kind of almost have an answer to why I feel the way I 245 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:03,360 feel to then kind of feeling truly authentically yourself. 246 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,280 When did you feel that? And then when did you feel like 247 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,560 you were just going to be you? Unapologetically you, everyday 248 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:14,720 you? Well, obviously going through 249 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:16,480 school, I could never have done it. 250 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,040 I could never have done it in school. 251 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,720 My life would not be worth living. 252 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:27,920 I was already being picked on and beaten up, left school and I 253 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,080 was from a family that you leave school, you work, you pay, you 254 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,560 wear. So you're graft. 255 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,600 Even if you're in education, you get a job. 256 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:42,480 And I left school, went to college and I had a did, I had a 257 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,480 night job and I started to feel these emotions. 258 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,480 I was meeting different people and I was different. 259 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,760 I had loads of girlfriends and and my parents thought they were 260 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,680 my girlfriends romantically, which they were. 261 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:03,480 They were just me bezies and I started struggling because I 262 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,320 thought I can't, I can't come out. 263 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,240 I can't say what I'm really feeling and know I'm attracted 264 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,520 to men and I'm only attracted to men. 265 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,440 I love women but they're my friends. 266 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:21,520 But I am, I am gay and I struggled to say those words. 267 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,120 I'm gay. I passed my driving test when I 268 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:31,320 was 18 and I always remembered driving to my first job and my 269 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,280 first real job. I was working in education and I 270 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,240 was I was driving the car and I kept saying over and over to 271 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:44,200 myself, I'm gay, I'm gay. And it didn't sit well with me 272 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,960 because that slur, gay boy has been given to me all my life and 273 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,760 I would never accept it. It was like water off a duck's 274 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,360 back. Nothing was sinking in. 275 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,480 I am invincible. The walls are up, the Shields 276 00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:02,040 are out, and I would not accept even me saying you're gay. 277 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,120 It took me months and I thought, I can't live like this, I need 278 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,640 to tell somebody. And over the course of around 279 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:15,800 about 10-12 months, I went from 16 stone, 10 down to about 8 280 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:21,000 stone, losing weight with stress, panicking, worrying that 281 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:26,320 I had this knot in my stomach and this story I had to tell. 282 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,560 It wasn't a story, it was real life and I needed to make that 283 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,480 happen otherwise I couldn't live my life. 284 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:38,640 So I made the decision that I would tell my parents because I 285 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,120 felt that it was my parents that needed to know first. 286 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,840 They brought me into this world. They should love and support me 287 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,840 regardless and it wouldn't be fair to them who've given me 288 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,320 everything to find out from somebody else. 289 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:58,880 So one morning I walked in to the house and at this time I'd 290 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,480 probably the lightest I'd ever ever been and ever will be 291 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,200 again. And I walked through the door 292 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,400 and my mum said to me are you OK? 293 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:13,280 And there are three words that I love and it's 3 words that are 294 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,920 not said enough. Are you OK? 295 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,200 Because that starts the story. It starts a conversation and 296 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,640 it's asking personal question where you can either be as light 297 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,440 as you like or go as deep as you like. 298 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,440 And that was my moment to go as deep as I needed to go. 299 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,800 And I said, no, not really. She said, what's the matter? 300 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:37,800 And I said, I've got something to tell you. 301 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:45,840 And she said, can I ask you? And I said, ask me, what do you 302 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,560 think you're gay? I said I think I am. 303 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,440 And she said, do you think or do you know? 304 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,960 And I said, I know. And she said, thank God for 305 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,760 that. Do you want a bacon sandwich? 306 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,720 Please eat because I have been panic and I thought there was 307 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,080 something seriously wrong. And this isn't serious. 308 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,560 This is just you getting over your own insecurities. 309 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,920 This is not something that you should be worrying about. 310 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:16,040 And I just burst into tears and she said I made you a bacon 311 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:17,800 sandwich. How do you feel? 312 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,920 And I said I feel like I've just been dug up. 313 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,600 I feel like a weights come off my shoulders and I feel like I'm 314 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,880 in the best place ever, but at the worst place I've ever been. 315 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,360 And she said, I don't know what you mean, you should be feeling 316 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:34,840 happy. And I said no because I've 317 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,880 destroyed myself for the last 12 months, but I've also been 318 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,960 destroyed by everybody else's opinion of me growing up. 319 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,280 And it's taken me 12 months to realise that this is who I am, 320 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,520 this is me and this is who I want to be. 321 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,480 And I want to be like everybody else. 322 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,080 I want to be as good as you and I want to have a relationship. 323 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,360 I want to build a family. And my mum said to me, get 324 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:02,960 yourself upstairs, go and have a lie down and come back down when 325 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,600 you feel good and ready. So I laid on the bed and then I 326 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,800 heard the door go and I just, my heart sunk all over again. 327 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,560 If I can't do this, it's my dad, the Ricki leg flashback. 328 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:25,040 And then I heard him go into the kitchen and then seconds later 329 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,280 walking up the stairs and he walked into the room. 330 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:34,240 And this is, I'm going to say the slur because it has to be 331 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,720 said because that was the way it was said to me. 332 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,840 And throughout the conversation, you'll understand how meaningful 333 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,320 it was. So my dad came into my bedroom 334 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:52,560 and said to me, you all right? And I said, yeah. 335 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,120 I said, have you spoken to my mum? 336 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,520 He said, yeah. He says, what do you think? 337 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:00,760 He says, dry your eyes, your big puff, and come downstairs. 338 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,160 And I went, is that it? He said, yeah, He says, come 339 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,800 downstairs. So anyway, I went downstairs and 340 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,240 he said to me why? Are you worried about what we 341 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,000 think? I said, Dad, there is no gay 342 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,320 people in Ferryhill. There is no people like me, he 343 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,080 says no, there isn't, but now there is. 344 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,440 And now you've got to show them how strong you are, he says. 345 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,680 Because now there is a person that somebody else can look up 346 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,360 to. Now get in the car. 347 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:38,200 We got the beach, we got to the beach, we walked onto the sand, 348 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,440 we walked for about a mile without a word being said and I 349 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:48,640 always say silence is my biggest red flag because there was no 350 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,480 conversation but because I knew the people. 351 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,120 I was walking along that beach with my mum and my dad walking 352 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:58,880 along that beach for a mile. By the end of the beach, 353 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,480 everything that was needed to be said was said without words. 354 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,360 We came off that beach and the rest is history and they have 355 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,560 supported me to be me the way I am. 356 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,400 However I want to live my life there behind me. 357 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:20,200 So yeah, that was my childhood and a little bit a little bit of 358 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,640 of fabric history as well. That's amazing. 359 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,680 Like I think for the first time on this podcast, I'm a little 360 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,680 bit lost for words. That's such an incredible story, 361 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,240 an incredible kind of like journey to have gone on with 362 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,040 your parents where there was this kind of feeling of one 363 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,200 thing, you know, after that Ricki Lake experience to how it 364 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,760 ended. And I just think that first 365 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:44,200 person you tell their reaction can be such a shape of how every 366 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,840 reaction went. I've, I think I've told this 367 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,800 stuff before. I told my best friend over the 368 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,120 phone. He was living in Australia and I 369 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,880 called him and I was kind of dithering about saying it. 370 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,520 You know when you're trying to, you're trying to find out how 371 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:53,960 to. Figure. 372 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,120 Out and he just kind of said, look, I know what you're going 373 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:59,960 to say, but it's actually really important that you say the words 374 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,440 and that was so important that I said it and that just made every 375 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,920 other time after that that little bit easier because you 376 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,920 had that good experience. So yeah, I love hearing about 377 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,760 that experience. Absolutely. 378 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,120 It's just it was so difficult for me to accept me. 379 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:20,000 How could I have asked anybody to accept me if I didn't accept 380 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,240 myself? And I did, and I found the time 381 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,280 and told my parents. But my biggest fear was to be 382 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:33,560 outed by somebody else and may not have the decency to tell the 383 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,240 those that I love the most first. 384 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,400 Yeah, yeah. It's hard, it's hard. 385 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,560 We shouldn't have to come out and I'm fight for that. 386 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,960 We don't need to come out. All we need to say is Mum, Dad, 387 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,920 our loved ones. This is who I love. 388 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,560 Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of the 389 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,120 ultimate sign of equality is when we just don't need to come 390 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:55,720 out anymore one day, just turn up with a partner or not a 391 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,440 partner, if that, you know, depending on how you feel. 392 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,280 And that is who you are. And that's kind of accepted. 393 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,600 So what does life look like after that? 394 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,520 And I'm obviously fascinated by kind of origin stories. 395 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,960 I'd love to hear about how you then got started in drag and 396 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,280 kind of how you are now, who you are sat in front of me. 397 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,840 Yeah. So I spent some years finding 398 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,400 myself and being comfortable with myself and being open and 399 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,960 out in Fairy Hill, or as I like to call it Fairy Hill now 400 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,640 because it's fun. It is and I love it. 401 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,800 So I made sure that I was comfortable with myself, lived 402 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,560 my life. I met my partner and we've been 403 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:41,360 together 18 years now and just going around County Durham and 404 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:44,720 being visual. And I wanted that from the very 405 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,280 beginning because I've never seen another LGBT person. 406 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:55,440 So I wanted to make it my mission to show that I'm in love 407 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,560 with somebody. And if somebody else is out 408 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:03,960 shopping and they see me, maybe he's shown some affection or 409 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,400 holding hands. Or if asked, is this your 410 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,720 partner? Yes, it is just being open and 411 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,920 honest with everybody. Ask me an honest question. 412 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,240 I'll give you an honest answer always. 413 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,600 And I wanted to be that kind of visibility for the people in the 414 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,920 village and the wider community that this is normal and you 415 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,320 shouldn't have to feel like you're not because look at me, 416 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,240 I'm living my life and I'm living my best life. 417 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:41,640 And I found love and then came a family party and they said, do 418 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,600 you know what we would really love? 419 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:50,920 A drag queen at the party to take the Mick out of somebody's 420 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,920 30th birthday. And I said, well, I can do that. 421 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,600 And I've watched and admired local drag since I came out the 422 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,040 closet. And since I was out there, I was 423 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,960 on the local scenes and watching the legends of drag in the North 424 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,480 East. And I just adored it. 425 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,200 And I thought, you know what, I'm going to give it a go. 426 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,240 I'm going to have a go. So I rocked up to this 30th 427 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:22,760 birthday party and in full drag. And my best friend said to me, 428 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,840 you look amazing. Can we get a lift to the party? 429 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,800 And I've touched on this before and I said, yeah, I'll ring my 430 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,920 dad, he'll take me. So I rang my dad and he'd never 431 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,760 seen me in Drug. I hadn't even seen in Drug. 432 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,680 And I walked downstairs for the very first time and I said to 433 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,840 me, Dad, dad, what do you think? He said, well, I don't know why 434 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,040 the fuck you're a fight? Yeah. 435 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:55,880 And I said I know we're from the North East where incest is best, 436 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,600 but don't smudge me lipstick because we do at the party at 437 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,160 7:00 anywhere. We got in the car, went to the 438 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:07,200 party and my best friend said to me there's a competition going 439 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,920 on in Newcastle, you should enter it and it's six weeks. 440 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,840 If you win, you win £350 and with that money we can go to 441 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,760 Benidorm. So I entered the competition, I 442 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:22,560 did the six weeks, won the competition, won the £350, spent 443 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,480 six and a half, 1000 lbs doing it and never went to Benidorm. 444 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,520 So I was furious over the Mirror that I want. 445 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:35,840 Yeah. And then from there, drag just 446 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,920 spiralled and I ended up working seven nights a week for the 447 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,640 first five or six years and dropping down to five nights a 448 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,440 week. And then as I'm getting a little 449 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:51,200 bit older and approaching 40, I've gone down to four nights a 450 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,480 week. And as they say, the rest's 451 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,880 history or history. There we go. 452 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,960 I think it's so interesting though, because so many of us 453 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:02,280 and so many for so many in the mainstream, kind of our 454 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,040 perspective of drag and the life of a drag queen is shaped 455 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,200 obviously by RuPaul's Drag Race giving it such a mainstream show 456 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,000 now. But talk to me about what life 457 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,160 is like for a drag queen in the UK right now. 458 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,280 Like what is that kind of experience on a daily, weekly 459 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,440 basis? So for me, drag is life and I 460 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,040 wake up being creative. I go to bed being creative. 461 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,400 Some of my best ideas is when I'm hitting the pillow at 12-1 462 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,280 in the morning and all the ideas start flooding into my head and 463 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,920 I'm thinking, right, I've got to get up, I've got to make this 464 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,240 music, I've got to write this down. 465 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:41,320 Drag, drag. Before Drag Race was cutthroat, 466 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,760 it was difficult to get gigs. It wasn't mainstream, and I am. 467 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,400 I'm very different to quite a lot of the scene Queens because 468 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,480 I don't tend to work a lot of gay scenes. 469 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,760 I'm primarily straight audiences working men's clubs. 470 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,000 It's probably some of the roughest areas in the country is 471 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,960 where I'll perform and they for me, the salt of the earth and 472 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,080 rough and ready. What you see is what you get. 473 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:16,080 And the banter, Northern banter, it's just it's, it's cutthroat. 474 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,320 It really is brutal. But I live on it and I thrive on 475 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:20,440 it. I don't do script. 476 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,040 What I say, I say the audience is my script. 477 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,640 So drag before drag race was difficult and you had to tread 478 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,280 the boards, you had to graft you. 479 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,920 We have gone from toilet cubicles to outside changing 480 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,360 rooms to portaloos to the back of the car and I was gigging 7 481 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,360 nights a week, different venues up and down the country. 482 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,080 I would work anywhere that would have me, if there was a stage, a 483 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,440 platform, a microphone, that was my time to perform and educate. 484 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:55,680 And if I could get my my main reason for doing a lot of the 485 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,600 straight audiences is because I think every performer should be 486 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,000 in education. And if I can get there, make 487 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,200 them laugh, make them smile, make them love the night, then I 488 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,720 can leave them with a message and then they can go home and 489 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,400 they can say I've been to see a drag queen and she was this and 490 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,760 I'm accepting. But then Drag Race came along 491 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:24,440 and projected these fabulous Queens into the ether and then 492 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,400 then you started withdrawing a little bit and wanting to put on 493 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,040 obviously the Drag Race girls rather than the local talent. 494 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,400 And the Drag Race girls are phenomenally talented and I 495 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,720 would never take work away from them ever. 496 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,800 I love, I love them. I've got some really good 497 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:48,600 friends that have done Drag Race and I just found it difficult at 498 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:55,320 that time to continue that kind of level of drag and then that 499 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,120 level of bookings where I was booked seven nights a week, 500 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,480 booked and blessed. And it became harder. 501 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,320 But actually, although it was hard, it gave me the fire in my 502 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,040 stomach to go hang on a minute. I need to keep these bookings, I 503 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,400 need to keep these venues, and I need to keep the roof over my 504 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,360 head. We need to diversify. 505 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,360 We need to get better. We need to go bigger, we need to 506 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,880 go better. We need to try more. 507 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,720 We need to work more, not just go, oh, do you know what? 508 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,480 It's hard. The bookings aren't falling my 509 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,280 feet. No, I'm a grafter. 510 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,840 I'll work for everything I can get. 511 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,120 Because if you dream it, you can achieve it. 512 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,920 But you've got to work damn hard to get it. 513 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,280 So don't expect things to fall on your lap and this and this 514 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,840 amazing competition that's been now plastered all over our 515 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,080 screens and into the mainstream is actually a blessing because 516 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,040 drag is now at the forefront of entertainer entertainment. 517 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:57,120 Bookers, minds, TV, stage shows, theatre, the cabaret circuit 518 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,240 worker, men's clubs, gay scenes, cruise ships. 519 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,960 We are everywhere and there is enough work for everyone. 520 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,040 You've just got to go out there and get it. 521 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,440 Make yourself a little bit different. 522 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:13,080 So Drag Race made it difficult, but it has produced and 523 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,800 projected some of the most amazing drag artists that the UK 524 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,680 have to offer. And for that I will be forever 525 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,840 grateful because I've learned so much from Drag Race and from the 526 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,960 Queen's. Because every single Queen has a 527 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,320 different story and I'm ready to read every single page. 528 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,520 Yeah, you said something that's so interesting to me, which is 529 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,360 around, you know, every performance is an opportunity 530 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,200 for education. I think, you know, that is one 531 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,320 of the things I think Drag Race has also done, which is there 532 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,960 are so many to your point, incredible stories, incredible 533 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,480 backgrounds, you know, challenges people have faced, 534 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:48,880 different lifestyles people have that. 535 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,560 I think it's such and because it is so mainstream, it is such an 536 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,160 incredible way to get that kind of education out there and that 537 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,440 kind of lived experience out there. 538 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,400 And you've obviously spent much of your working life in 539 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,520 education and safeguarding kind of vulnerable children. 540 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,200 How did that experience in the education space kind of shape 541 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,960 the way you do show up as tests both on stage and then I guess 542 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:14,440 around and in the community? Well, when you go on stage as 543 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,840 tests, you've got to show up, you've got to turn up, but 544 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,400 you've got to be visible for those kids who were just like 545 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,800 you sat at that classroom desk, who was struggling with the fact 546 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:31,880 that they were LGBT plus. So when I go on stage, I want to 547 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,040 make sure that I educate because I'm doing it for the next 548 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:40,600 generation to make it easier to pave the way like the Queens 549 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,880 before me did. And the LGBT community paved the 550 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,640 way for people like me. So 50 years ago it was even 551 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,960 worse. And we're gradually making it 552 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,240 easier. And if I can help one single 553 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,680 person, if I can make it easier for them, then I've done my job. 554 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,560 One person, if I can change one mind if I can, if there is a 555 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:08,200 parent in that audience, I always finish my show with. 556 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,120 Please tell your children that they can be a doctor, a teacher, 557 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,840 a paramedic, an astronaut, an influencer. 558 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,960 They can also be gay, lesbian, Bipan, trans, or anything that 559 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,920 they choose to be and you will love them regardless. 560 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,880 If they can do that, then I've done my job and if I'm seeing 561 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,840 300 people a night, I'm reaching so many families and hopefully 562 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,640 making it easier for the children within them, their 563 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,520 family and turning up at work and children. 564 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,400 Knowing what I do. I keep no secrets. 565 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,680 At the end of the day, they ask me an honest question. 566 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,680 I will be honest because during Section 28, if you were asked if 567 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,960 you were gay, you could not say that you were, you could not 568 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,880 promote it, but you could not diss it. 569 00:33:53,760 --> 00:34:00,200 And then in my day job, what I tend to say is my partner, 570 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,280 husband, or I'll say, if it comes to drag, I'll go, yes, I'm 571 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,040 a drag queen. What's a drag queen? 572 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,960 And I'll tell them and what do you do on a night time? 573 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,199 And I'll tell them that I'm a performer, I can DJ a Hostess, A 574 00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,480 Hostess, I'm a cabaret queen, I'm a lip sync queen. 575 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,760 And, and I'll be honest with them. 576 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:26,199 And it sparks conversation because conversation is what is 577 00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:29,920 needed for understanding. So you can open that 578 00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,400 conversation up. It can be as easy as just saying 579 00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:39,719 Tom Daly, medallist, Olympian, gold medallist. 580 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:42,360 He's gay. Yeah. 581 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:49,159 And moving on to the next person, just dropping a little 582 00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:53,600 tiny segment into the lesson plans. 583 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:58,640 It also helps children understand that they do belong 584 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,760 and if they are not part of the community, it helps them 585 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,360 understand and helps them empathise with the people who 586 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,480 are going through what they're going through. 587 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:16,120 But it also normalises we can normalise the language by saying 588 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,040 gay, that isn't a slur, you're gay. 589 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,600 It's a good thing if we can normalise the language, usualize 590 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,840 the language, it becomes ingrained in our society. 591 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,280 So if we can get a child to connect and think I belong, 592 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,200 we've saved lives. We've potentially saved lives. 593 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:44,000 Education is key and children deserve to be educated about the 594 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,960 whole world, not part of it. Yeah, I completely agree. 595 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,000 It's such an important conversation to had. 596 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,400 Obviously our 2nd guest ever on Queer Talker was our mutual 597 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,680 friend Ollie Pike. And the incredible work Ollie 598 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,360 does with Pop and Ollie, I just think it's so important to turn 599 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,120 up and for people to see so many different people from so many 600 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,440 different backgrounds because to your point, it does normalise 601 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:05,680 it. And then these children as they 602 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,200 grow up, they won't have learned because, you know, 603 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,480 discrimination, homophobia, transphobia, biphobia, all the 604 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,960 phobias are a learned behaviour. They're not built into them. 605 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,280 That's where they can see. Born. 606 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,960 We are not born homophobic, racist. 607 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:25,520 We are taught those things. No child is born that way. 608 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,760 And as Davina Decampo said, your belief is my existence. 609 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,760 So my existence, I'm here, I'm living. 610 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,720 You might believe one thing, but this is me. 611 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,480 And do you think, I guess two things really, Do you think 612 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,520 obviously your passion for this is kind of sparked by something 613 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,640 that was missing from obviously your childhood, my childhood 614 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,960 experience? And to what degree does does the 615 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,520 work of people like Paul O'Grady, Lily Savage kind of 616 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,240 help you feel that that's the party you wanted to go on? 617 00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:01,440 Because it would have been easy to not write. 618 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,200 It would have been easy to kind of keep those, keep those worlds 619 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,720 separately. But how much of an inspiration 620 00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:06,680 did you take from someone like a Lily Savage? 621 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:11,360 Paul O'Grady? I took a lot of inspiration from 622 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,120 Paul O'Grady when I saw all the charity work that they were 623 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,000 doing and also the good that they were doing for the 624 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,800 community. And my community Once Upon a 625 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,480 time was against me and I thought, well, how can I change 626 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,320 the perceptions of my community and and make it easier for 627 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,960 everybody else? So me and a group of people got 628 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,240 together and with the forefront of drag and it's in the 629 00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:40,040 mainstream. It was in the mainstream at that 630 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:44,160 time and seeing all of the amazing work that the Queens 631 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,880 before me had done for charity. And we were getting asked all of 632 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,520 the time, can you do a charity event for this? 633 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:52,920 Can you do a charity event for that? 634 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,200 And we just couldn't physically do it. 635 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,280 And then I thought to myself, hang on a minute. 636 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,320 Lily Savage was a massive advocate for charity work as as 637 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,720 Paul O'Grady as well. I would like to do that, but 638 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:11,400 would people support it? I'm a drag queen in a in the 639 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,920 local area where I've had so much difficulty just being me. 640 00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:20,160 Now I'm a drag queen on social media, on the stages, in the 641 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,640 working men's clubs, the local pubs and bars. 642 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:24,880 How are they going to take to this? 643 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,160 So I thought, you know what, I'm going to set up my own charity 644 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:34,440 and Claire McGregor, who's our CEO, came with me and at the 645 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:39,080 time it was Betty Moffett and Scarlett Moffett and my drag 646 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,640 Queens, Miss Cara, Emma Royde and a team of trustees. 647 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,000 We all got together and said we've got an idea. 648 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,000 We want to give back to our local community, those people 649 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,320 who have helped us. It's now time to help them. 650 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,120 And I couldn't be a drag queen without the support of the 651 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,920 people who come to see me. So my way of giving back to my 652 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,880 audience was helping them when they needed the help the most. 653 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,480 And I know I needed help back in the day, I could have done with 654 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,920 a helping hand. So we set up Angel Trust, a 655 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:23,400 charity for the people and it was fronted by drag Queens and 656 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,240 allies and just well-rounded people. 657 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,800 We're a group of people who have all been through similar 658 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,400 experiences, whether you're LGBT or heterosexual. 659 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,120 They were part of the same group of people who had the same 660 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,400 experience as I did. But we said let's do this. 661 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:50,600 So we did, and eight years ago Angel Trust was formed and I 662 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:54,440 wanted to give back to the local community and help the people 663 00:39:54,520 --> 00:40:00,640 who might have Once Upon a time frowned upon me, or they know 664 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,200 somebody who probably didn't accept me, but it was now my 665 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,880 time to change their perception and go. 666 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,160 Do you know what? Actually, she's really nice and 667 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,840 she's lovely and although she's a drag queen, she's also the. 668 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,320 Little boy that and maybe he's once picked on or would have 669 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,680 picked on and I don't want that because she's doing so good for 670 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,120 the for the community. And I wanted to make sure that 671 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,400 we had counselling and we also want to had suicide prevention 672 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,520 and we wanted to tackle homelessness. 673 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:38,600 And we also wanted to help save all of the food that goes to 674 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,960 landfills and reuse it and open a pantry and A food bank and a 675 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,760 Bistro and a charity shop. But we also wanted to do 676 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:52,400 fundraising and have a central point to donate to worthy 677 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,160 causes, whether that be a children's football team, an 678 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:02,200 aspiring sportsperson, an LGBT group to support local housing 679 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,800 or toy appeal. We did the toy appeal to give 680 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,240 back to children who wouldn't have a present to open on 681 00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:16,600 Christmas Day and we ended up having 45,000 toys this current 682 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,600 Christmas to give out to the local people of County Durham 683 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,960 and Darling. And now our night hub has gone 684 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:29,440 from a night hub to having housing to help get people off 685 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,240 the streets, give them a warm bed and a roof above the head. 686 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,520 And it's just phenomenal how it snowballed and got bigger and 687 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,040 bigger and bigger. And we have got a lot to thank 688 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,840 the community for because the community have helped build the 689 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,000 charity. But from what I, what I've got 690 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,200 from that charity is people aren't against me, they standing 691 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:56,360 with me. And from Once Upon a time when I 692 00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,600 wasn't the norm and didn't fit in, now I am the norm. 693 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,280 I'm fitting in and they're standing with me rather than 694 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,880 against me. And for me that is everything. 695 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,560 Yeah, I love that. What an incredible organisation 696 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,520 to kind of have seen grow and to have really pushed through the 697 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,280 community. We will include a link to to you 698 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,120 all in the the podcast description. 699 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,400 Please do check out the Angel Trust. 700 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,920 It's such an incredibly, incredibly important 701 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,600 organisation. I think one thing I'm curious to 702 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,640 understand, you know, we talked about your experience as a young 703 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,640 person where you grew up, but you've chosen to kind of stay 704 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,680 rooted where you grew up. So, so many people would have 705 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:38,680 would have left, right? So many people would have had 706 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,240 such a maybe a negative experience, negative impression 707 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:42,800 of that area. They would have said, I don't 708 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,920 want to be here anymore. I'm going to go to this city or 709 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:46,440 this town and kind of live my truth. 710 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,720 But you stayed where you are. What does it mean to you today? 711 00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:52,280 You talked about, you know, all these people that would have 712 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,440 picked on you. Now you're so visible. 713 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,080 What does it mean to you personally to be so visibly 714 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,960 queer and deeply trusted in the community that you once felt 715 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,960 unsafe in? It means the absolute world and 716 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:13,560 I will fight tooth and nail to ensure that LGBT is across my 717 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:18,480 hometown because it's so it feels powerful. 718 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:25,560 What we've done is, is powerful and knowing that I'm making a 719 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,080 difference and making it easier for people like me to come out 720 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:34,200 and and just be queer in the area that they grow up in. 721 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,800 We shouldn't have to move away. By moving away, you're moving a 722 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,320 problem. That's what people think. 723 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,080 You're moving the problem. We're not the problem. 724 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,600 And with problems, you need solutions and with solutions, 725 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,720 you've eradicated the problem. That solution is acceptance. 726 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,360 Accept me, love me, and let's work together because together 727 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,480 we're great. Separate, it's not going to be 728 00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,800 as good. And I always say that if 729 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,800 everybody wants, everybody would like a Lamborghini. 730 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,000 But if everyone drove a Lamborghini, you wouldn't want 731 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,720 to drive 1, you would want a Fiesta. 732 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,480 So it takes so many different people to make the world go 733 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:12,960 around. And I wanted to stay. 734 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,160 I should have packed. I, I always think I should have 735 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,640 packed up my bags and just less than it would have been easier. 736 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:19,360 But I thought, no, I'm staying here. 737 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,400 I mean, walking down the street and getting an egg thrown at you 738 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,680 and like called the F word and I'm like, all right, OK. 739 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,400 I'm like, oh, I just need to get out of here. 740 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:28,280 I need to go to London. You go to Manchester, you go to 741 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,160 Brighton. I need to get out of here. 742 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,120 But I thought, no, I'm not. And I, I will fight tooth and 743 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,400 nail to be visible and be that person. 744 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,720 I come in the house dressed as a boy and I leave the house 745 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,080 dressed in a blonde wig, walk into the van and now people are 746 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:46,760 Tooting the horns and go why? How your Tess, are you all 747 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,200 right? And I'm like, yeah, I'm good, 748 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,680 how are you? I've got children out the front 749 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,760 who are rolling up and down on the on the roller skates saying, 750 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,000 oh, Tess, can we have a picture? My mum loves you. 751 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,760 And I'm like, yeah, come and get a picture and I will walk into 752 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,160 Greg's and go and get a steak bake and I will be in full drag 753 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,720 before we show because why not? Why not? 754 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,520 Sure, this is fine. I mean, I'll do any, anything in 755 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,680 my local area dressed like this and you've just got to have a 756 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,720 really good comeback. But what really annoyed me in my 757 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:22,600 local area, which on my 30th birthday, I was having a party 758 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,360 and well, it was a bit like a garden party. 759 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,880 And this car has said to me, have you seen what's happening 760 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,720 in the town that you adore? And I said, what? 761 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:38,000 He said they seen the local mayor and I said no, check his 762 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,720 Facebook. So how came the phone? 763 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:44,640 And there was loads of homophobic, transphobic, 764 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:50,480 racists, Islamophobic slurs, means nastiness all down his 765 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,560 profile. The blood rushed to my head and 766 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,120 I thought, you know what, I thought we were getting 767 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,160 somewhere. I really did. 768 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,160 With everybody around here now loves us and everyone's 769 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,840 accepting we can be who we want to be. 770 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:09,480 And then I saw that and Cara and my partner said to me, test 771 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,720 Dawn, Dawn, whatever you're going to do, just Dawn, it's 772 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:15,000 your birthday. Just don't do anything. 773 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,080 Look at it next week. I said no, just because it's my 774 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,240 birthday, just because it's a day you have to call these 775 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:24,040 things out. You've we've got to do something 776 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,600 about it. He's the mayor of our hometown. 777 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,840 How can he be spouting so much hate in a position of power when 778 00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,000 he's got the whole of the community to look after? 779 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,280 And he's segregating. Yeah, he segregate in the 780 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,760 community. I can't stand for it. 781 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,000 So out came the phone. War and peace status went into 782 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,480 the ether. And I thought 5 minutes in, 783 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,440 ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping ping. 784 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,680 And I thought what have I done? What have I done? 785 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,040 Because with the positivity and the support came the hate. 786 00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,680 And then the hate came because they were in support of our town 787 00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,360 mayor. And I thought, you know what, 788 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,600 what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. 789 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,760 And I've been here before and I've won one battle, It's time 790 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,240 for another. And I'm ready for war. 791 00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,440 And he then started putting things on. 792 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,040 This is my views, and these are my religious beliefs. 793 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,920 And I said I understand religion. 794 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,840 However, your belief is other people's existence. 795 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:29,960 And in a position of power, you should be impartial and you 796 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,240 should be leading with positivity, love, equality and 797 00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:37,960 diversity. That fell on deaf ears and it 798 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:43,520 was not what I wanted to hear from him, so I took it further. 799 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:50,880 I know the status went out and then ABBC reporter and ITV News 800 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,880 reporter rang me and said what are you doing tomorrow? 801 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,240 And I said, well I meant to be going to a spa for me 30th 802 00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,600 birthday. I said I'm leaving at 8:30. 803 00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,800 And he said Tesla would really like you to do the news. 804 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,720 We need to put a piece out about the hate that you're receiving 805 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,960 online and also from your town there. 806 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:16,120 And I said, well, I'll have to be up at silly o'clock because I 807 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,640 have to do it. I can't do it as me because 808 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,080 nobody knows it as no knows me as me. 809 00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:25,360 Everybody knows Tess. Well, can you be ready for 8:30 810 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,080 in the morning? And I said, yeah, I was up in 811 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,400 makeup. 8:30, full drag in my living room, news reporters, 812 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,400 cameras in my face. And I sat there and told my side 813 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:41,000 of the story and why I thought a man in position of power spout 814 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:45,480 in hate is wrong for our community but wrong full stop. 815 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,920 And it went out on time, Tease News, BBC News. 816 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:58,440 And I was relieved I'd done it, terrified I'd done it. 817 00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:03,000 I was fearful because people didn't share my views. 818 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,720 And I get that everyone's different and have a right to 819 00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:09,040 their opinion. However, the hate that I got 820 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:15,920 from that was horrific. My house was targeted, my car 821 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:22,600 was targeted and the irony of it all was somebody counted up the 822 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,400 back lane how many gates? However the first house has 823 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,320 their back gate on the side of the house and they counted 3 824 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:36,120 doors up and smashed my next door neighbour's gate in. 825 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,360 But I saw the funny side and I put the status out saying 826 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:45,280 whoever that was who has attempted to destroy someone's 827 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,720 back gate, it wasn't mine. But the moral of the story is 828 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,200 you smash the wrong back gates and then it weren't mine. 829 00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,520 So and then about two weeks later I was called to the town 830 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:07,960 hall and cutting a Long story short, our town mayor was had to 831 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:13,040 stand down and stood down firstly off his own merit. 832 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:19,040 However, he was a vote of no confidence from everybody in the 833 00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,280 town hall. So my mayor was no longer. 834 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,760 And from that day on, the pride flag has flown outside our town 835 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:31,440 hall for Pride month, for Durham Prize, for Newcastle Prize and 836 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:35,640 it's now celebrated. Pride is now celebrated here in 837 00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:37,960 my hometown and I absolutely love that. 838 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,320 And I can't, I can't move away. I won't move away. 839 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,360 And even if I do for a short period of time, my heart will 840 00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,360 always be here because I want to make sure that nobody ever has 841 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,680 to go through what I went through all those years ago. 842 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,760 Yeah. And I think, you know, that's an 843 00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,480 incredible story. But one of the things I took 844 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,360 from is this idea that there is a There's a kid who's so 845 00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,160 thankful that you didn't move away. 846 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:03,720 There's a kid who sees you, sees themself reflected in you, and 847 00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:07,920 knows that they also can live a fulfilling, happy, successful 848 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,440 life in that town and not have to escape it. 849 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,800 Absolutely, Absolutely. I think that sometimes when you 850 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,600 see a, you see a drag queen, you see the face, you see the 851 00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:23,840 facade, you see the ACT, you don't see the deeper side of the 852 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,040 artist. And that for me is really is 853 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,040 really deep. I want to make a difference and 854 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:34,200 that's why I get up and go five nights a week, five days a week 855 00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:37,360 and do the charity because I want to make a difference. 856 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:43,120 And behind every queen there's a real person and it's a real 857 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,720 person who's probably making a difference because they've been 858 00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,960 through so much in their lifetime. 859 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,320 It's it. And I'm hoping, I'm hoping I am 860 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,200 making a difference and they can look at me and go, do you know 861 00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,480 what? She works in a school, she's 862 00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,880 educated, she's also a business lady. 863 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,080 She also runs a charity. I could do that. 864 00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,840 And I'm going to have a go just like I did all them years ago 865 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,840 when I watched The Queens. And I thought, I want to do 866 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:07,880 that. I'm going to. 867 00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:12,000 And if I can inspire someone, I'll be absolutely over the 868 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:13,760 moon. If I could inspire a young 869 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:19,000 person, which is to be who they want to be, or inspire anyone to 870 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,120 be who they want to be and live their authentic selves and work 871 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,000 damn hard and go out and achieve their dreams, I'm all for it. 872 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,720 I'll be over the moon. I promise you, you are. 873 00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:31,160 I can, I can guarantee it. And obviously, we started this 874 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,760 conversation talking about your younger self. 875 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,080 So let's end the conversation talking about them as well. 876 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,960 If you could give your younger self one piece of advice, what 877 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,360 would it be? And would it be different if I 878 00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,880 said, what advice would you give in general to young LGBTQ plus 879 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:54,560 people today? The advice I would give to 880 00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,880 myself if I could speak to my younger self, don't worry, 881 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,440 everything is going to be OK. You are going through the 882 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,520 hardest time of your life right now, but things are going to 883 00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:08,760 change. But you need to go through these 884 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:14,840 hard times because they are just the stones to build your 885 00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,200 foundations. They are your foundations. 886 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,760 Use it, grow from it, learn from it and be better. 887 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,880 Be better, work hard because you've got this. 888 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,840 You are not different. You are you and just be you. 889 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:35,600 I love that. And then to a younger person, 890 00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,960 right now, I use a phrase quite a lot. 891 00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:46,600 And that phrase is every year a farmer spreads manure across a 892 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:51,040 field. And sometimes people will spread 893 00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:58,840 awful things about you or target you, but the reason that farmer 894 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,880 spreads that manure across that field every year is to ensure a 895 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,400 bigger and better crop next year. 896 00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:11,760 So the crap that you're going through right now is just the 897 00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:16,080 fertiliser to make you bigger and better next year and the 898 00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,040 year after and the year after that. 899 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:22,000 Because one day you'll stand taller than you are now and 900 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,960 you'll be reaching the stars. And that's what you are, a *. 901 00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,560 I love that. That's so incredible. 902 00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,800 Tess, thank you so much for being on the podcast with me. 903 00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,760 But I just think thank you so much for your incredible work. 904 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,480 The visibility you bring, the representation you bring, the 905 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,760 education you bring, the thoughtfulness you bring your 906 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,160 work in the community is so important. 907 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,000 I can promise you. You said you know you don't want 908 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,080 anyone to you. There was no one who looked like 909 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,000 you when you were younger. Act like you taught like you 910 00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,160 when you're you are now that person for so many people 911 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,960 globally across the country, especially in your hometown. 912 00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:00,360 So thank you so much for everything you do and for 913 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,360 everyone in your hometown. Thank you for being that 914 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:05,320 representation for them. Thank you so much for having me. 915 00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,840 It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.