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00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,360
It's about humanity in a shared 
love and understanding of each 

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other. 
It's fun to poke fun. 

3
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,320
It's not fun to kick people hard
when they're already down. 

4
00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,520
It's made me really emotional. 
I never even thought about that.

5
00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,400
Like it's the mask that you hold
onto for so long. 

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00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,720
It's such a well developed mask.
Every interaction you have, 

7
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,720
however genuine, and since it, 
it's still got a few inches of 

8
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,240
like metaphysical layer of who 
you're supposed to be in front 

9
00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:29,640
of it. 
It was my 2022 Edinburgh Fringe 

10
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,360
show and it started in this 
leaky little shipping container 

11
00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:34,680
with like 75 people. 
And then suddenly we got a 

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00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,280
cheeky little five star in the 
Guardian. 

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00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:37,640
And then it sold out for the 
whole run. 

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And then they had to put us in 
these bigger tents and they sold

15
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,800
out and sold out and sold out. 
And then it was nominated and it

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00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,480
was just the most magical month 
of my life. 

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00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,360
I was given a little slot on 
Friday Night Live where I 

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00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,560
performed naked using a part of 
my body that one does not 

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00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:52,720
traditionally use to play the 
piano. 

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That's the role that I'd like to
have taken for myself. 

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A lot of comedians just want to 
watch the world burn. 

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00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,400
Hello and welcome back to the 
Queerest podcast telling the 

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fiercest Stories. 
This is Queer Talker and I'm Ben

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00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,560
Cechetti. 
This week I sit down with the 

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00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,080
phenomenally talented Jordan 
Grey. 

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But before we get to that 
conversation, I've got a very 

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quick favour to ask. 
Wherever you are watching or 

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00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,360
listening to this episode, hit 
that subscribe button. 

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00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,200
It's one click that's going to 
make a massive difference. 

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00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,440
It's going to allow me to grow 
this this podcast and it's going

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to allow me to bring you the 
best and the queerest episodes 

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every single time. 
So in advance, thank you. 

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00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,680
Now to my conversation with 
Jordan. 

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Jordan, as always, we will start
with our queer panic rapid fire 

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00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,200
set of questions. 
You just respond with the first 

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00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,440
thing that comes to mind, 
starting with what was the first

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00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:50,200
album you ever owned? 
It was history by Michael 

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Jackson. 
It was a double album, so you 

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00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,760
can really get your teeth into 
that as a kid lost for ages. 

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00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,360
It's a classic, I love that. 
What would be your lip sync for 

41
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,240
your life? 
Song of choice. 

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00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,120
There is an amazing heavy metal 
cover of Pink Pony Club that 

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00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,360
I've listened to about 1000 
times in the last two weeks. 

44
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,640
It's really good by Jonathan 
Moloss Sings. 

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00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:16,720
So it's Jonathan Sammon. 
Jonathan something. 

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00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,680
There's no, there can't be many 
Jonathans on the Internet. 

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00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,120
Look it up. 
Doing a pink pony club. 

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00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,840
Heavy metal. 
I think I'll I'll try and find 

49
00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,520
it. 
Who was a childhood celebrity 

50
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,520
crush of yours? 
Gem from Gem and the holograms 

51
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,360
Do you know the cartoon Gem and 
the holograms I. 

52
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,840
I actually don't. 
She is amazing and Gem, she's 

53
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,520
like she, she had superpowers, 
but she was also in a band and 

54
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:43,800
that is what I aspire to every 
day. 

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00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,240
OK, I will look that up and 
share it with everyone as well 

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00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:54,240
if anyone else is unfamiliar. 
What is your biggest red flag? 

57
00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:00,400
When people that are asking me 
out, they are either too excited

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00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,080
about me being transgender or 
don't want to hear about it at 

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00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:04,440
all. 
You know, like it's, it's a 

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00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:05,680
part, it's a normal part of 
life. 

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00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,880
But when you're dating as a 
trans person and they're like, 

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oh, it's like, if it's like a 
too exciting because all they 

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want to know about is what's 
going on downstairs. 

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But well, my, my eyes and brain 
and arguably my personalities up

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00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,120
here. 
Let's do that bit 1st and then 

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we can talk about what is 
inevitably going on Down Under. 

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OK. 
That's super interesting. 

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00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,640
OK, what is your favourite all 
time queer movie? 

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00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:36,280
Oh my God, I do quite like that.
Blue is the Warmest Colour. 

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00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,800
It's just really tender and 
sweet and like, I mean, it's in 

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French, so you gotta, you gotta 
under, you gotta listen to it in

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00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,960
French, right? 
There's nothing arguably wrong 

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00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:49,760
with that. 
It's nice, nice language. 

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00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,360
I don't speak French, so I could
do a bit of reading, but it's so

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00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,920
nice. 
Like they're coming out process 

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00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,480
being allowing to be be be 
messy. 

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00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,680
Like we don't see enough of that
on screen, do we? 

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00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,360
It's like sex and coming out. 
They like they're sanitised a 

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00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,880
lot on screen, like for comic 
effect or whatever, but like 

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00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,880
they're messy. 
There's a complicated processes.

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00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,120
Yeah, I completely agree. 
I will have to look it up 

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00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,000
because I'm not I'm not familiar
so I will do my education. 

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00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,680
German hologram Louis the 
woman's colour. 

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00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,399
That is a spectrum. 
It's not that. 

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00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:20,680
There's no Venn diagram for 
that. 

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00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:22,840
I've got some homework. 
It's good. 

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00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,080
What about a queer TV show you 
recommend to everyone other than

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00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,680
obviously transaction? 
Oh, that's so kind. 

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00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,560
I would say that this is this 
will be a bit of left field, but

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00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,960
what happens when like you get I
found out recently that Rick 

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00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:39,640
from Rick and Morty is 
transsexual. 

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00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:45,280
And so Rick and Morty a cartoon 
about a doctor and and his 

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00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,720
grandson travelling universe, 
but he sort of has sex with 

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00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,160
everyone and has loving 
relationships with entire 

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00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,200
planets worth of people. 
So while it's not necessarily 

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00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,400
the most queer thing you've ever
seen, I do recommend it as a 

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00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,160
nice way of that stuff just 
being funnelled into mainstream 

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00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,120
entertainment. 
Yeah, I love that. 

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00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,280
That's awesome. 
Speaking of TV and of 

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00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:09,360
Transaction, Yeah. 
Do you have a favourite line 

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00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:10,800
from Transaction? 
Because I do. 

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00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:12,080
So I'm just curious to hear if 
you have. 

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00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,560
All right, we'll trade favourite
lines. 

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00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,600
OK, Do you know what? 
There's some really it's blowing

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00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,760
my own trumpet because I wrote 
it, but there are some lines 

106
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:20,960
that I'm like, oh, did I write 
that? 

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00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,360
That's really good. 
I do like when this Simon played

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00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,080
by Nick Frost, when his wife, 
his ex-wife says to him, have 

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00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,280
you thought about installing AB 
day on your front porch? 

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00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:34,440
Because the amount of shits you 
take on your own doorstep is 

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00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,280
staggering. 
I think that's a nice bit of 

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00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:39,960
language. 
What's? 

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00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,920
Your favourite line? 
Mine is opinions are like 

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00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,600
assholes. 
Worth exploring. 

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00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,640
Good, that's way better. 
Just pippy Snappy. 

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00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:50,960
Yeah, yours is better. 
Right line? 

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00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,960
Well, everyone can now go and 
check it out if they haven't 

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00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:56,760
already and figure out what 
their favourite line is. 

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00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,440
What is your favourite queer 
slang? 

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00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,680
Right, so you got to bear with 
me because I'm an old lady. 

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00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,280
I learned the term that you 
probably, I'm going to tell you 

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what it is and you'll be like, 
that's not queer. 

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That's just a word I learned. 
The word snatched, Is that 

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00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,320
queer? 
I think that's queer, yeah. 

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00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,640
Is it like when you when you 
look a bit like hot and your 

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00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,760
your chin's all pulled up just 
learn that like 2 days ago? 

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00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,280
Is that queer? 
I feel like I'm embarrassing 

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00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:28,120
myself in front of my community,
but I mean come on guys, I'm 

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00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,800
older than most of you. 
Definitely not. 

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00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,760
I think that's a great one. 
What about a queer book you just

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couldn't put down? 
Oh my God. 

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00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,440
All Fours by Miranda July. 
Oh my God, it was beautiful. 

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00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,040
Like I think it I nominated it 
for the Sky Arts best book of 

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00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,120
the year. 
Like it's it's goes to some 

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00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,200
unusual places again. 
Really cool to have sex 

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00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,200
represented in like not the 
mainstream way. 

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00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:55,520
She goes on a bit of an 
adventure in that book. 

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00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:58,840
OK, another great recommendation
for me. 

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00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:00,480
I've got tonnes of homework 
coming out this episode, which 

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00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,720
is amazing. 
Who is your ultimate queer icon?

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00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:13,000
Right, OK, I quite like well, I 
I like I think Deadpool. 

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I keep coming out these really 
like these really out out there 

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00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,760
nerdy suggestions. 
Deadpool is undoubtedly 

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absolutely a pansexual being and
I like his costume a lot. 

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So Deadpool. 
I love that amazing choice. 

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00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,480
Right, that's not homework. 
Yeah, I don't have to do 

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00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:32,480
homework on Deadpool. 
I'm good. 

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00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:40,040
Who is one person you would like
to hear on this podcast and what

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00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,080
one question would you want me 
to ask them? 

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00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,840
Oh, that's really nice. 
The anything. 

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00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,280
Let me have a good there's this 
quick fire. 

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00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:49,440
Come on, Jordan, this is quick 
fire. 

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00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:58,920
I would love on the podcast to 
see the comedian Ruben Kay, 

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00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:04,360
comedian, cabaret performer, 
Australian icon just smashed 

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00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,680
their performance in Jesus 
Christ Superstar and I'd love 

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00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,440
them to be on your podcast. 
And I would love you to ask them

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00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,600
why are you not returning 
Jordan's phone calls? 

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Because she's been blowing you 
up. 

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00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,120
All right, put me in the middle.
OK, ask, ask them. 

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Ask them what they think it 
means to be a man, because I 

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00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,520
think I see them as in this. 
Strange day and age that we live

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00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,000
in. 
I see them as this most 

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00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,240
incredible representation of 
masculinity across the whole 

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spectrum. 
I just think they're amazing and

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they'd be a wonderful guest and 
they would have some interesting

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things to say on the subject. 
Yeah, they would be amazing. 

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OK, we will definitely reach out
and try and get them on the 

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00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,720
podcast. 
And finally, for our repertoire 

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00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,440
set questions, what is one word 
you would use to describe your 

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00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:55,120
childhood? 
Oh, post tense. 

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00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:56,840
It's happened. 
What's the word? 

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00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:57,960
What's the word? 
What's one word for? 

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00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,560
It's already done so we don't 
have to worry about it. 

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00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:02,800
History. 
It's done history. 

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00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,080
It's history, mate. 
Just like just like the album, 

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00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:07,520
the double album by Michael 
Jackson. 

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00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,120
What a full circle moment. 
Ben, I know I'm in all of you. 

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00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,080
That was amazing. 
History, History. 

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00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,200
I love that. 
That's amazing. 

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00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,240
Well, you say history, so let's 
dig a little bit deeper. 

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What should I know about you as 
a young person to understand the

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00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,720
Jordan that sits in front of me 
today? 

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00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,720
What I've noticed recently in my
stand up show is that I talk 

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00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,960
about the fact that I grew up in
a pub and then I realised that 

185
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,720
that must be the most obvious 
thing to everyone who's ever met

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00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:36,640
me. 
Every single thing about my 

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00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:38,600
personality. 
It would imply that I used to 

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00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,080
like lug be about was up at 
staircase. 

189
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,880
Like that's just, that's just, I
was like a little nerd that grew

190
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,000
up in a bar and then I joined a 
death metal band and then that 

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00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,960
changed the trajectory of my 
life because I've never stopped 

192
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:51,320
being a nerd. 
But I am. 

193
00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,040
I suddenly got loads of 
attention for being on stage and

194
00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:55,280
I thought I'll probably keep 
doing that. 

195
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,600
I reckon, I reckon I'll keep, 
keep talking into a microphone 

196
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,920
or screaming into a microphone 
as you do with deaf mouth and, 

197
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,000
and people will say, well done. 
And I quite like that feeling. 

198
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,280
It's it's all pomp and frill and
and superfluous superficiality. 

199
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,160
I'm really just a bit of a nerd,
but I happen to have landed a 

200
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,360
job where I have to be on stage 
wearing ridiculous outfits. 

201
00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:18,520
That's all you need to know 
about me. 

202
00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:24,280
I'm not really a real person. 
I like these questions. 

203
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,040
These are very introspective. 
OK, good. 

204
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,240
Well, we'll, we'll keep them 
going because I think it's 

205
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,680
interesting to understand the 
first awareness people have of 

206
00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:36,960
other LGBTQ plus people. 
So do you remember the first 

207
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,600
queer person you became aware 
of, either in real life or I 

208
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,280
guess also through media? 
Yeah, I do. 

209
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:45,000
It would have been Graham Milton
at the time. 

210
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,320
I was little and my mum was. 
Well, I mean, I say that my 

211
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,880
mum's a lesbian, so I, I suspect
I probably knew about that, but 

212
00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,200
I don't think I knew it 
implicitly because I had a 

213
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,160
father and they were married 
that that probably threw off my 

214
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,560
radar a bit. 
But then she would take us to 

215
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:05,840
Prides and I saw Graham Norton 
introducing who sang Bump in the

216
00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,240
Night. 
He was introducing Bump in the 

217
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,400
night. 
It's such a formative moment, 

218
00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:11,400
Bump, bump, bump in the night. 
I think it's All Stars, 

219
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,280
something like that. 
And I was like, well, he's he's 

220
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,560
gay and definitely. 
And he's, he's proper lovely and

221
00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:18,880
nice. 
And then my mum came out as a 

222
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,120
lesbian. 
I was like, oh, like Graham 

223
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,240
Milton, except with a lady. 
And she's like, yeah, I was only

224
00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:24,840
a child at this point. 
I do want to point out I wasn't 

225
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,960
like a full-fledged person and I
understood the English. 

226
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,480
Language. 
This wasn't you at 25 or 

227
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:28,960
something? 
Yeah. 

228
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,680
And at that pride, I saw a drag 
queen eating a banana and my 

229
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:35,800
tummy got really, I had a funny 
feeling in my tummy. 

230
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,320
I was like, this is unusual, 
sexy. 

231
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,840
I like it. 
What an experience. 

232
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,840
That's amazing. 
In everything you do, even this 

233
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,160
conversation now, you come 
across as just so incredibly 

234
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,040
authentically you. 
You think you first felt 

235
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,480
authentically yourself, and then
when did you feel you could 

236
00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:00,080
bring that authenticity to 
everything you do? 

237
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,280
That's a beautiful question that
I'm only in real time realising 

238
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,600
the answer to. 
That's so nice. 

239
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,440
Like it was when you come out, 
you would not come out like 

240
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,560
trans if you're transgender, 
transitioning because like 

241
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:11,600
everything. 
Oh, it's made me really 

242
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:12,760
emotional. 
I never even thought about that.

243
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,640
Like it's the mask that you hold
onto for so long. 

244
00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,440
It's just such a well developed 
mask. 

245
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,720
Every interaction you have, 
however genuine. 

246
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,960
And since it, it's still got a 
few inches of like metaphysical 

247
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layer of who you're supposed to 
be in front of it. 

248
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,880
You take that away that I mean, 
I became a comedian very quickly

249
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after I was I came out. 
So that says a lot. 

250
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:36,240
It's like I could actually share
a real authentic energy on stage

251
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was before that I was a pop 
singer. 

252
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,360
I had a lot of energy, but it's 
all very corralled into this 

253
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weird square boy shaped 
experience. 

254
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,840
That's such a lovely question. 
This is a great podcast. 

255
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,880
You're very good at this. 
I appreciate it. 

256
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,360
Yeah. 
I think it's fascinating to just

257
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,280
hear, you know, when people kind
of feel that. 

258
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,520
I think it's something that I 
constantly chases that feeling 

259
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,040
of authenticity. 
I'm drawn to people who I feel 

260
00:12:58,040 --> 00:12:59,320
are being very authentic with 
me. 

261
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:01,960
My biggest red flag would be 
someone who's just not being 

262
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,320
authentic. 
So I'm super curious as to know 

263
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,280
how people kind of embrace that.
And you mentioned being a pop 

264
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,520
star and obviously you pay to a 
lot. 

265
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:11,840
Of people using the word pop 
star. 

266
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,000
Thank you for using the word pop
star. 

267
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,520
I didn't need it for anything, 
but I'll take your description. 

268
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,120
Well, I would argue anyone who 
makes it to the live shows of 

269
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,360
The Voice, which you did, is an 
incredible achievement. 

270
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,000
Looking back, how do you feel 
about that moment and that 

271
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,240
experience now, and how do you 
think that version of you 

272
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,640
compares to the Jordan we now 
see on stage and on screen? 

273
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,320
Great question because I 
remember I had a live in 

274
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,480
landlord at the time and he was 
like I saw you on The Voice last

275
00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,200
night and he was like what are 
you doing that with your voice 

276
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:45,800
for? 
And I was like, what do you 

277
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,000
mean? 
It's like you're talking all 

278
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high and dainty, like a little 
like a little Pixie. 

279
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:50,960
It was like, that's just my 
voice. 

280
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,320
And it's because when you first 
transition, you are still, you 

281
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,120
overshoot sometimes as a 
transgender woman and it's not 

282
00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:59,440
authentic. 
But you, you haven't got 

283
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,480
anything to base it on. 
So I'm like, you try to find 

284
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,320
something. 
So now as a very concrete 

285
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:07,640
example, this is what my voice 
sounds like naturally. 

286
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,040
Whereas on The Voice, I reckon I
was probably talking. 

287
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,200
I can't even do it. 
Or it's like doing some 

288
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,680
impression of Minnie Mouse 
because you're still cut. 

289
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:17,920
I mean, also it's like millions 
and millions of people watching.

290
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,480
It's scary. 
It is very interesting dropping 

291
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,640
a lot of the charade that you've
been carrying around for your 

292
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,720
whole life. 
I'm very proud, for example, of 

293
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,440
being from Essex. 
But I don't imagine my Essex 

294
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,440
accent came out much on the on 
The Voice. 

295
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,560
I was being very not RP but just
TV reality contestant voice. 

296
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,160
Yeah. 
And obviously, look, I Can't 

297
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,040
Sing clearly, I'm not 
particularly funny, but you are.

298
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:47,400
For you, going from the voice to
full blown comedy feels like a 

299
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,400
wild shift and just like this 
incredible level of talent that 

300
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:52,960
it must take to make that 
transition. 

301
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,200
What was, you know, was that 
always bubbling under the 

302
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,000
surface, or did you surprise 
yourself with that switch to 

303
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,200
comedy? 
I surprised myself a bit, but 

304
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,040
there is an old saying that like
every pop star wants to be a 

305
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,440
comedian and every comedian 
wants to be a pop star or rock 

306
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:08,880
star. 
I've substituted the word pop 

307
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,200
star. 
It's usually rock star because 

308
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,600
when you are a singer and you do
your thing and it's amazing, but

309
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,800
then someone comes on stage with
just a microphone and gets the 

310
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,600
whole crowd in like, oh, I wish 
I was that person. 

311
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,520
A lot of comedians, they're 
like, God, I wish I could feel 

312
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,080
as cool as somebody, like 
rocking the axe. 

313
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,720
I'm so old, like shredding the 
axe. 

314
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,640
So yes, I, I think it's bubbling
away in the sense that was 

315
00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,640
always jealous of comedians. 
But then when you become a 

316
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,160
comedian, it's because honestly,
you just want to be one of those

317
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,600
people. 
It's like that you, the 

318
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,400
attention that you get on stage,
that condensed thing is great, 

319
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,400
but you I just want to be one of
those people. 

320
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,920
And no moments in my life are 
happier now than when I'm 

321
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,280
surrounded with a bunch of 
comedians because there's it is 

322
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,680
a secret. 
We're not actually that funny 

323
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,520
like off stage, which is so not 
they're funny people, but like 

324
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:53,840
I'm the least funny person I 
know. 

325
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,160
And yet I do this for a living. 
When you get together we just 

326
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,160
sit and talk, really like low 
key about stuff. 

327
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,000
Just have a little cup of tea. 
This is a comedian's favourite 

328
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,680
beverage. 
Little cup of tea, sit and chat 

329
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,960
about the world and it's so 
lovely and peaceful because 

330
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,280
we've all got the same weird 
experience of standing on stage 

331
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:10,400
with loads of people laughing at
us. 

332
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,200
What is it like a different 
level of pressure, like 

333
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,360
obviously getting on stage, 
singing, having that kind of 

334
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,040
immediate reaction versus kind 
of comedy as well where you 

335
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,400
know, you are kind of flying on 
without without a string and you

336
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,680
just kind of have to perform and
hope that people react the way 

337
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,080
you hope they're going to react.
Yeah, 'cause, right. 

338
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,840
So you're a singer and let's say
you're using playback, you've 

339
00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,360
got the song playing. 
Like if you aren't doing 

340
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:36,720
anything, there's still 
something happening. 

341
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,240
So there's still something for 
people to talk to. 

342
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,120
When you're a comedian and 
you're just talking into a 

343
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,240
microphone, if they don't laugh,
the silence is is palpable. 

344
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,000
It's like it's just silence. 
Whereas music, as a musical 

345
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,640
comedian, if no one's laughing, 
I can still a great impression 

346
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:53,920
there of a piano that didn't 
sound like. 

347
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,520
So yeah, it is a different 
pressure being a comedian, but I

348
00:16:58,520 --> 00:16:59,800
love comedy because it's 
immediate. 

349
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,360
When you do a song, let's say 
you do Pink Pony Club, yeah, 

350
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,119
you're a Chappelle Rone and it's
like that's a great song. 

351
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,920
If Chappelle Rone isn't playing,
playing Pink Pony Club in 100 

352
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,000
years time, a fan's going to be 
annoyed because it's an absolute

353
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,000
hit banger. 
You have to do it for the rest 

354
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,000
of your life. 
Comedians, you don't have that. 

355
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,640
In fact, if you're telling the 
same joke in 100 years, you're a

356
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,200
hack. 
You've got to mix it up a bit. 

357
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,400
I like that. 
I like the pressure of staying 

358
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,000
on my toes and always bringing 
out new stuff. 

359
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,040
It's why it's why pop singers 
and rock stars to get 

360
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,280
disillusioned a little bit, get 
bit jaded because they've got 

361
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:26,680
these amazing songs, but they 
want to move on. 

362
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:28,000
They want to change their 
careers. 

363
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,280
You know, they want a Gaga, they
want a David Bowie. 

364
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:31,360
They want to reinvent 
themselves. 

365
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,200
Yeah, 100%. 
That makes a tonne of sense 

366
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,440
actually. 
And I think obviously let's talk

367
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,640
about your stand up because I 
want to talk about your Channel 

368
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,040
4 special. 
Is it a bird? 

369
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,880
If you haven't seen it, don't 
pause this, but wait till the 

370
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,080
end and then go and immediately 
watch. 

371
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,440
Watch it on Channel 4. 
It's available on demand. 

372
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,720
It might be you. 
You have seen it. 

373
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,720
Yeah, I have seen. 
It Oh, this is the advice of the

374
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:53,520
public. 
OK, I get it. 

375
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,600
It might be the only stand up 
show I've seen that covers and 

376
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,040
we'll count them off. 
Batman. 

377
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,600
Yes. 
Jesus Christ, Mr Potato Head. 

378
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,400
Yeah, and Adolf Hitler in one 
set. 

379
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,160
I wonder why you don't see those
four people in the same room at 

380
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,240
the same time, Ben. 
I think it's so interesting, 

381
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:20,320
this same person. 
That is one way to look at it. 

382
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,280
And clearly you haven't let go 
of your musical roots entirely, 

383
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:26,880
right? 
Because I love how you weave 

384
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,960
music into your comedy. 
What is it about that 

385
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,600
combination of music and comedy 
that works so well? 

386
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,520
And can you just talk to me 
about how that special came 

387
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,600
together? 
Like, absolutely can. 

388
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,120
So usually a comedian's first 
special is the first, let's say,

389
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,640
5 to 10 years of their career of
jokes they've been put together 

390
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,600
and then you hit especially we 
hit a perfect boiling point. 

391
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,120
So it's all your best material. 
So I'm very lucky that it's all 

392
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,280
the good stuff is like crammed 
into that first one. 

393
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,200
It came about in. 
So it was my 2022 Edinburgh 

394
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,640
Fringe show and it started in 
this leaky little shipping 

395
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,520
container with like 75 people. 
And then suddenly we got a 

396
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:02,080
cheeky little five star in the 
Guardian. 

397
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:03,560
And then it sold out for the 
whole run. 

398
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,480
And then they had to put us in 
these bigger tents and they sold

399
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,400
out and sold out and sold out. 
And then it was nominated. 

400
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,480
And it was just the most magical
month of my life, honestly. 

401
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,480
It was incredible. 
And then suddenly my career just

402
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,760
went like took a perpendicular, 
sort of shot up in the air. 

403
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,440
And that's the only reason 
anybody knows who I am. 

404
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,760
Because off the back of that, I 
was given a little slot on 

405
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,600
Friday Night Live where I 
performed naked using a part of 

406
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,320
my body that one does not 
traditionally use to play the 

407
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:27,960
piano. 
And that's how that's what 

408
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:29,960
launched me into people's minds 
post the voice. 

409
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,240
So that special is that that 
show is the reason why I exist 

410
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,000
in this rectangle that you we're
looking at now. 

411
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,400
I'm very proud shafted it very 
proud of it. 

412
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,880
To answer the question of how 
music and comedy comes together.

413
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,760
It is a way to stretch people's 
brains. 

414
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,200
What I really like, I do it in 
that special is like if you can 

415
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,680
get people right on the edge of 
like a big silly laugh and then 

416
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,360
proper pull things down with an 
emotional moment of tenderness. 

417
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,880
So Oh, and then vice versa if 
you go in, but I do it my next 

418
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,400
show, like you get everyone in 
thinking, God, this is the most 

419
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,600
bleak, sad thing ever. 
God, well, this isn't comedy 

420
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:00,840
anymore. 
And then just completely 

421
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,800
undercut it with a ridiculous 
visual gag. 

422
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,000
It does something to the. 
That is a very specific flavour 

423
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,760
that I crave personally, and I 
think a lot of people do because

424
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,040
we just want something different
nowadays, novelties, like it's 

425
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:13,920
like the most valuable currency.
Personally to me. 

426
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,840
If someone can show me something
new, then I'll that I'll be very

427
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,280
impressed with them. 
And they're my big new best 

428
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:19,400
friend. 
If, you know, if you see 

429
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,000
someone, they're like God, that 
everything they say is really 

430
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,360
interest. 
I want to hang around that 

431
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:24,120
person more. 
Yeah. 

432
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,320
So that's what I think. 
Music and comedy together 

433
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,640
stretches your brain. 
Yeah, I think it's amazing. 

434
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,680
Like me and my husband watched 
it and we were just kind of 

435
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,120
howling, 'cause it is kind of 
this roller coaster that you 

436
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,560
take everyone on. 
And often, you know, comedy 

437
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,960
shows are and there's no 
criticism, obviously I can do 

438
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,200
it. 
But they they gag after gag 

439
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,960
after gag kind of 1 liners. 
Whereas this is really a journey

440
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,360
you take everyone on, which I 
really appreciated. 

441
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,760
And the other show that made me 
and my husband Hal was 

442
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,360
Transaction on ITV. 
We briefly mentioned at the 

443
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,400
beginning, but I'm obsessed so I
really want to get into it. 

444
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:02,240
That idea of a supermarket night
shift, how did that come about? 

445
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,200
And then what was your 
experience of writing and 

446
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:10,440
starring on a show on ITV? 
But it started off as a little 

447
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,920
taste, the teaser of me and 
another comedian playing 

448
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,600
ourselves, talking in the Museum
of Comedy in London. 

449
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,040
And then we took it to a TV 
channel, and they're like, well,

450
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,520
we don't really want to see a 
show about two comedians because

451
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,560
it's not that common of a job. 
Most people don't do that. 

452
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,600
Can you set it somewhere a 
little bit more relatable? 

453
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,080
I was like, all right, well, I 
looked at, I thought a bunch of 

454
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,040
different ideas. 
And I never worked in retail 

455
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,720
myself, but all my friends did 
work night shift and I would 

456
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,760
visit them and I would, like, 
help mop up the store and we'd 

457
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,720
have like doughnut fights and 
stuff in the night time. 

458
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,520
I was like, that's really fun. 
That's OK. 

459
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,800
It's the time you don't see 
because you'd think that'd be 

460
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,720
the most boring time ever, but 
it's the time when people loose 

461
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,160
the most. 
God, that's another phrase from 

462
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,160
the 1950s stuff. 
I just pulled out my pocket, 

463
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,440
people cut loose and it gets 
psychedelic. 

464
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,640
I don't know if you've ever 
worked an overnight shift, maybe

465
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,200
not in like nightlife's a bit 
different because there's loads 

466
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,040
of people around. 
But if you've got a few people 

467
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,800
together in a boring situation, 
you get really silly really fast

468
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,960
and it gets a bit psychedelic. 
So I knew I wanted the show to 

469
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,280
be about that. 
And then it, we made a short 

470
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,200
form series for Comedy Central a
long time ago, little 5 minute 

471
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,880
episodes. 
And then it got Nick Frost saw 

472
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:15,880
it and he's like, I really like 
this. 

473
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,840
And if it ever gets made for TV,
I'd love to be the boss. 

474
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,800
And then his company. 
They're they're the reason that 

475
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,240
he exists. 
Nick is the reason the show was 

476
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,240
made and exists. 
And he brought it over and we 

477
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,800
got the Commission with ITV and 
then we made it in. 

478
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,760
No, it feels this is mad. 
It was only November of last 

479
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,280
year that we've shot. 
It only came out this year, 

480
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,920
didn't it? 
And fingers crossed the second 

481
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,520
season is on its way. 
It looks good, but you never 

482
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,040
know. 
So you know, I've got crossing 

483
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,760
everything I've got across the, 
the for the audio listeners 

484
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:43,640
right now. 
I know this is video. 

485
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,920
I crossed all my fingers and I 
thought how funny it'd be if 

486
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,560
another set of fingers just came
out and crossed the bottom be a 

487
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,040
real like surreal moment. 
So I, yeah, I've never worked it

488
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:56,520
myself. 
But now having lived in that 

489
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,120
supermarket for like 6 weeks 
shooting, I do honestly feel 

490
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:01,480
like I put in a shift at a 
supermarket because it's so 

491
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,960
realistic when you watch that 
show that's not a real, that's a

492
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,080
set. 
But I mean like loads of TV 

493
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,280
shows. 
But it's so you walk in and I'm 

494
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,840
like oh this is just a 
functioning supermarket. 

495
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,960
A Wilco nearby shut down. 
So they got loads of stuff from 

496
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,120
the Wilco and rebranded it as 
Pellets supermarket. 

497
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,160
I kind of thought it might be 
like an abandoned shop or 

498
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,160
something. 
I've got to agree with you. 

499
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,920
Like they felt incredibly 
realistic. 

500
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,640
Well, how does what's the 
experience of writing ATV show 

501
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,560
versus writing a comedy special 
or a stand up special? 

502
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,000
How does that kind of vary? 
It's the the writing of a 

503
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,240
special is it's your voice with 
no interruption. 

504
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,280
And that's a very appealing 
thing about comedy. 

505
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:39,440
It's why a lot of people go into
it. 

506
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,320
It's the same reason a lot of 
people go into writing novels 

507
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,600
because it's like your thoughts 
in large and the interruption is

508
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,760
usually right at the end. 
Someone will say, can you take 

509
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,800
out this word? 
Can you do this ATV show? 

510
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,920
From the very start you've got 
somebody saying maybe there 

511
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,080
should be a dog in it or maybe 
you should take that dog out of 

512
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,520
it. 
So don't like that dog, whatever

513
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,000
it is like. 
So it's much more of a 

514
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,240
collaboration with your channel 
usually. 

515
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,960
You don't normally get channels 
that completely leave you alone.

516
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,320
ITV would have been wonderful, 
but it does. 

517
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,040
It does involve pages and pages 
of notes about what the audience

518
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,760
might prefer to see and you own.
Then your job as a writer is to 

519
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,280
push back. 
You've got a karate chop those 

520
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,720
ideas away and say no, come on, 
please trust me, you've hired me

521
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,280
because you think I'm funny, 
Please, please let me be funny. 

522
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,200
And then I personally think the 
best shows are the ones where 

523
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:24,120
the writer did that more often 
than not. 

524
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:25,640
And they said, look, please just
trust me. 

525
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,040
Even if it comes out and it's 
just a bit, it's not that funny,

526
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,560
but it's really specific and 
weird. 

527
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,040
Those are great shows and those 
shows tend to find their 

528
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,200
audience over time. 
My favourite shows of all Timer,

529
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,640
30 Rock and Community, great 
shows, Tina Fey and Dan Harmon, 

530
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,080
writers of those shows. 
I mean, they had amazing writers

531
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,680
rooms, but these are these 
weren't shows that were massive 

532
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,720
smash hits. 
They just became cult hits over 

533
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,240
time. 
And that's how I pitched this 

534
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,440
one. 
I said I want it to be 30 Rock 

535
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,680
in a supermarket. 
Well, if you don't want to 

536
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,120
listen, go and watch after that 
pitch, then I I don't know 

537
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,400
what's wrong with you, so you 
should definitely go and check 

538
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,640
it out. 
You obviously made your 

539
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,320
illustrious return to the end of
a Fringe this year. 

540
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,080
What can you tell me about that 
show and the experience of 2025?

541
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,560
I was really nervous because 
it's very difficult to come back

542
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,520
after a show that's been so 
publicly sort of put on a 

543
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,800
pedestal, which is lovely. 
What a lovely thing to 

544
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,720
experience and then to come back
and have to do it again. 

545
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,200
It's never going to be as good. 
So the opening song from the 

546
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,040
show is a is a song about how 
this show can't possibly be as 

547
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,960
good as the last one. 
And it's a lot of fun. 

548
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,680
I enjoyed it a lot. 
If it went off without a hitch, 

549
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,600
it was so nice. 
It was a it's a show about the 

550
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,360
difficulties and the fallout of 
appearing naked on television 

551
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,840
and then a lot of people getting
quite mad at that and, and, and 

552
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,400
complaining about it to Ofcom, 
who very politely turned all 

553
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,840
those complaints over and said 
stop being silly. 

554
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,640
But a lot of people, it wasn't 
enough to insult being online. 

555
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,960
They had to, they had to let me 
know that I received some very 

556
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,120
unfortunate messages alluding to
the fact that they rather that 

557
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:04,240
wasn't on the planet anymore and
that they would be happy to take

558
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,120
care of that situation. 
It's really sad, but I turned 

559
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,720
that into a show that's got 
because some of the threats were

560
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,160
like gun related and I have a 
bit of a cowgirl thing in the 

561
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,560
back of my brain. 
I always wanted to be a bit of a

562
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,280
cowgirl, so I turned it into a 
cowboy Western aesthetic show. 

563
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,320
So the show's called. 
Is that a cock in your pocket or

564
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,480
are you just here to kill me so 
I could swear in on your lovely 

565
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,480
show? 
We could say that, can't we? 

566
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,160
I have now. 
We're good, we're good. 

567
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,720
And it's really fun to come out 
on like every night, come out 

568
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,480
dressed like a cowgirl. 
It's got a few little special 

569
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,360
effects and stuff in it, which 
didn't always work every night, 

570
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:39,000
which is adds to the comedy. 
And it's, it's really odd to 

571
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,360
sort of talk about your own life
because that's a specific thing.

572
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:43,760
If you didn't know who I was, 
which is the majority of people 

573
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,040
on the planet that come into a 
show where you're I'm catching 

574
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,640
you up with my weird life that's
been happening over the last 

575
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,960
four years. 
And it's, I mean, God bless 

576
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,240
them. 
The audiences just go along with

577
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,040
it. 
They're like, well, I don't know

578
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,160
this person, but like, they seem
to have had a harrowing 

579
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,400
experience. 
Let's jump on board. 

580
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,320
Really, really a joy. 
It was a a lovely month and I'll

581
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:06,200
now be taking that show on tour 
intercontinentally, as it were. 

582
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,600
It's a little bit of a little 
bit of a scoop. 

583
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,200
Oh yeah, we're going space side 
with that show. 

584
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,640
Eventually, soon, soon, 
eventually. 

585
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,400
Soon, eventually. 
That's very, very cool. 

586
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,400
You mentioned something there 
that I just want to pull on a 

587
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,840
little bit, which is kind of 
social media and how do you 

588
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,320
handle that side of things, 
right? 

589
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:30,480
We're in such a politically 
divided well right now, and 

590
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,400
social media kind of gives 
anyone and everyone the 

591
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,120
opportunity to say anything that
comes from their brain to 

592
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:37,560
another person. 
How do you deal with kind of the

593
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,040
division of, you know, me as 
Jordan versus the Jordan that's 

594
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,800
on social media and the and the 
reaction that's going to have 

595
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,040
it's. 
A very interesting and excellent

596
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,120
question 'cause I don't think 
that social media, as most 

597
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:51,600
people know, in their mind, is a
representation of actual 

598
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,240
humanity. 
It's us at our best and worst 

599
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,680
and not really much in the 
middle, whereas most of us live 

600
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,520
in the middle. 
Absolutely just an in the middle

601
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,040
person. 
So I don't first of all, no, 

602
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,400
zero. 
I have a zero response policy 

603
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:05,960
myself. 
I have never in my life. 

604
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:07,800
That's a quick queer word I've 
used. 

605
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,000
I should have used a queer word,
a queer term that I've used. 

606
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,760
Snap, snapback. 
Yeah, I've learned that. 

607
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,640
I've learned a little snapback. 
I've never snapped back in my 

608
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:16,920
life. 
I don't have the capacity to 

609
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,040
snap back. 
I don't think I do anyway. 

610
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,840
But what that means is that 
either people get bored and 

611
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,640
leave it alone or they they get 
so angry that they sort of eat 

612
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,800
their own tail, whereas I'm just
stood over in the corner like a 

613
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,520
little cartoon character just 
giving people away. 

614
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,920
I don't have the capacity to 
argue. 

615
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,440
And I think that's the luckiest 
thing that's ever been bestowed 

616
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,240
to me by my by my parents. 
Like they, we just don't just 

617
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,880
don't have it. 
I'm too, I'm too squishy. 

618
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,000
Like, here's the thing, what I'd
say with social media is that 

619
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,200
the inclination is to harden 
yourself to all this horrible 

620
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,480
stuff and put up a big wall and 
put a load of people on the 

621
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,640
other side of that wall and 
dehumanise them and say, well, 

622
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,080
the, the bad people, they stay 
on the other side. 

623
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:58,920
And I've got my wall. 
I don't want to have a wall. 

624
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,840
I want to remain soft and 
squishy my whole life. 

625
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,400
I want to, I want to be affected
by stuff and I want, I want 

626
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,720
music to still mean something 
and I want like sad movies to 

627
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,160
still sort of hurt and get in 
there. 

628
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,440
You can't do that with a wall. 
So I stay squishy and vulnerable

629
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,720
all the time, like a little open
wound and never respond. 

630
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:16,720
That's been my way of dealing 
with it. 

631
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,280
So I get to stay who I am and it
all, it hurts. 

632
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,920
It hurts all the time. 
It hurts when people 

633
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,960
accidentally misgender you, but 
they're not doing it on purpose.

634
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,520
It's all right for sometimes you
get your heart broken for and 

635
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:28,320
it's no one's fault. 
That's something we have to 

636
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:29,640
remember. 
It's actually it's not. 

637
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,640
It's not always everyone's 
fault. 

638
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,080
It very often is someone's 
fault. 

639
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,640
Definitely. 
Let's not pretend that 

640
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,800
everyone's like everyone in the 
world is a suffering saintly 

641
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,160
type character. 
But yeah, social media has done 

642
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,400
a number on our species, good 
and bad. 

643
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,560
Is is pushed a lot of things 
forward and pushed a lot of 

644
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,360
things back. 
I want us all to remain who we 

645
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,320
are and not, don't get. 
Don't wander too deep into that 

646
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,760
marsh because it's an unusual 
place to be. 

647
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,440
Yeah, I think that's super. 
That's really important. 

648
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,600
And I also think what's 
interesting is you mentioned 

649
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,240
something about how comedy can 
be used. 

650
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,000
It kind of had this magical 
ability to disarm people. 

651
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,440
You can make them laugh, and 
then you can make them think. 

652
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,360
What role do you think comedy 
plays in helping people 

653
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,880
understand things they might 
otherwise fear or reject or 

654
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,240
immediately hate? 
Especially with the kind of 

655
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:24,960
current political climate we're 
living in, I. 

656
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,360
Have two answers to that One, 
you're so good at doing 

657
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:29,680
podcasts. 
This is so good. 

658
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,080
You're so good at these 
questions because this is pro 

659
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,840
proper stuff, right? 
2 is that comedy is undeniable. 

660
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,240
You have a physiological and 
physical response to things that

661
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,760
make you laugh. 
It's called spasmodic 

662
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,440
exploration. 
That is the scientific word for 

663
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,600
laughter. 
If a person can make your 

664
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,040
stomach vibrate in and out with 
something they've said, it 

665
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,960
bypasses all your prejudice. 
You just, it just can't. 

666
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,000
You can't deny it. 
And it's the reason we often 

667
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,280
laugh at things we don't think 
we should. 

668
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,280
You know that thing where you 
catch yourself laughing? 

669
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,320
It doesn't mean that that you 
wholeheartedly believe or agree 

670
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,160
with the thing that you've just 
heard, but it means there's a 

671
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,880
kernel of humanity under there 
somewhere. 

672
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,400
There's something that's that 
needs to be dealt with or some 

673
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:13,800
communication you've just 
experienced. 

674
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,440
Because it got through your 
brain, literally went through 

675
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,040
your ears and eyes and it got 
processed and it went down to 

676
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,160
the gut. 
And the gut was like, yeah. 

677
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:26,560
And it went in and out. 
I think that the kind of comedy 

678
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,320
that trips you up in a fun way 
is a lot of fun. 

679
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,080
What? 
I've sat through comedy specials

680
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:35,560
and I've heard I think there's 
some non transgender comedians 

681
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:38,120
making some awful transgender 
jokes. 

682
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,320
I also think there's a little 
handful that are making some 

683
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,080
really good ones that absolutely
have the licence to do so 

684
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,120
because we're a part of the 
species. 

685
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,520
It'll be sad to be completely 
left out of all comedy. 

686
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:48,440
It's fun. 
We're not. 

687
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,160
It's not like you need a 
transgender person off stage 

688
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,400
going tick. 
Yeah, no, that's OK. 

689
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,560
It's about humanity and a shared
love and understanding of each 

690
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:56,920
other. 
It's fun to poke fun. 

691
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,560
It's not fun to kick people hard
when they're already down. 

692
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,600
It's fun to poke fun at someone 
and while lifting them up at the

693
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,840
same time. 
So I think the kind of comedy 

694
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,280
where what I'll often see is 
I'll look out into an audience 

695
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:08,680
and I'll see someone nudge 
someone and say that's me or 

696
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,960
that's you. 
You do that and it's fun. 

697
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,160
I've sat a few specials where I 
have been Stony faced like, 

698
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,520
well, this is just awful and 
it's about me, isn't it? 

699
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,360
And you still have to divorce 
yourself a little bit. 

700
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,960
If you can, If you can go go in 
open, you know, to to enjoying 

701
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,080
comedy, you'll have a great 
time. 

702
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,680
But you can't be expected to do 
that like with the World is 

703
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:29,760
hard. 
And we're going to go in with a 

704
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,160
few prejudices. 
So it's kind of picture the job 

705
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,200
of people like me, I suppose, to
pop those bubbles for you. 

706
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,280
Like I will not. 
I'll make jokes about 

707
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,080
transgenderism. 
Get a fantastic comedian from 

708
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,000
the Middle East. 
They'll pop that bubble for you 

709
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,040
a couple of times. 
You go in with a few prejudices 

710
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,960
and it's our job to smooth that 
over for you. 

711
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:47,840
Well, I say our job. 
That's the job. 

712
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,600
That's the role that I'd like to
have taken for myself. 

713
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,080
A lot of comedians just want to 
watch the world burn. 

714
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,560
And that is the balance, right? 
Because I'm curious to get your 

715
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,560
thoughts on something you've 
talked about a little bit there,

716
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,280
which is, you know, obviously 
there's been a lot of backlash 

717
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,640
around comedians who have made 
jokes or comments about the 

718
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,840
trans community. 
Some have defended it, saying 

719
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,160
it's kind of about the intent of
the joke, not the joke itself. 

720
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:15,680
I've always struggled with, I've
been at comedy shows where 

721
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,400
people have made jokes about gay
people. 

722
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,640
And I sometimes I guess it 
depends on the joke. 

723
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,280
Sometimes it just has a real 
kind of immediate defence goes 

724
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,360
up and sometimes I can laugh it 
off. 

725
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:32,040
Do you think that kind of humour
is ever acceptable or and can 

726
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,360
those jokes do real damage to 
the trans community? 

727
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,680
Oh, well, I mean, it's a case by
case basis. 

728
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,400
This is the thing about the 
society we've been now and this,

729
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:41,600
that's such a sweeping 
statement. 

730
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,760
When anyone says that to you, 
don't believe them because the 

731
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,160
next thing they say is not the 
entire answer. 

732
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,720
But I'm going to say anyway, the
thing about society right now is

733
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,800
that we're so exhausted. 
We are so exhausted. 

734
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,960
There's so much cognitive 
dissonance in our brains from 

735
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,960
all the wacky things that are 
happening, all the horrible 

736
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,000
things are happening, and all 
the good that seems to be being 

737
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,600
done on the other side. 
It doesn't gel and we're too 

738
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,120
exhausted to think things 
through completely. 

739
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,080
We have a massive part of our 
brain, incredible function in 

740
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,679
our brain that allows us to 
package off pieces of 

741
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:10,639
information and keep them there 
so we don't have to think about 

742
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,120
them ever again. 
And that's how racism happens. 

743
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,560
That's how sexism happens. 
At some point they go, right, 

744
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:17,600
I'm too exhausted. 
I'm just going to bunch this 

745
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,120
group of people here and move it
because I had not me. 

746
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,120
This is the proverbial person. 
They're like, I've had an 

747
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,480
experience with a woman once. 
I didn't like it, right? 

748
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,960
It's so much easier for me now 
to just put them all in the same

749
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,800
box and put them over here. 
So we can't treat every comedian

750
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,719
making jokes about everyone as 
having the same agenda. 

751
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,840
It is purely a case by case 
basis. 

752
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,960
To answer your question, yeah, 
of course there are jokes that 

753
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:47,320
are damaging, not jokes that I'd
say jokes that fan the flame of 

754
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,679
a damage that's already being 
done. 

755
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,480
I can't. 
I wouldn't say I'd ever heard a 

756
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,239
joke or I thought that person's 
just started World War 3 is 

757
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,640
there? 
They're only jumping on a 

758
00:34:57,640 --> 00:34:58,800
bandwagon that's already 
happening. 

759
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,400
A comedian's job is to get 
laughs. 

760
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,440
And I think a lot of them along 
the way lose sight of the fact 

761
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:05,920
of who their audience is. 
If they're getting laughs from a

762
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,280
bunch of people, keep yeah, keep
doing it. 

763
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,320
Why not? 
They just don't the the audience

764
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,320
of people that are endangered by
that job, probably by that joke,

765
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,520
probably not going to be at your
show. 

766
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,120
So they wouldn't know any 
different comedians. 

767
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,400
We're not all we're not 
geniuses, are we? 

768
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,200
We're just we're an idiot. 
Most of us just making jokes. 

769
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:28,880
I would say there's there's a 
few comics doing is there were 

770
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,720
there's a he's he is a self 
professed slimeball, but I think

771
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:36,280
he's quite a sweet man as a 
mayor from an American comedian 

772
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,480
called Jim Norton. 
Blessed. 

773
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,080
He's got transgender wife now 
and he's the last person you'd 

774
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,080
have thought that would be 
making like really good like 

775
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,280
subtle transgender jokes because
of the company that he keeps. 

776
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,080
He's a fuck. 
He's sorry for swearing. 

777
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,240
I'm so sorry. 
He's a funny, funny guy and he's

778
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:52,280
always been he's always had a 
thing for the transgender 

779
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,880
ladies, but he does it in such a
he's it's like it's a creep. 

780
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,680
They so sweet as well at the 
same time and you. 

781
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,720
So there's people like that that
they've got good in their hearts

782
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,520
for the situation. 
They're willing to be wrong and 

783
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,800
they try stuff on the other 
side. 

784
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,480
There's obviously some lots of 
amazing transgender comedians 

785
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,200
that you would probably go to 
for that material first. 

786
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,880
Sam Nicoresti just won the 
comedy best show at the 

787
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,480
Edinburgh Fringe. 
Amazing comedian. 

788
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,200
I've always got a kick out of 
everything Jen Ives does, as 

789
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,200
well as a really cool 
transgender comedians coming up 

790
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,440
at the moment, and I dare say 
I'm one of those and I'm doing 

791
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,480
my best to fly that flag. 
Yeah, we appreciate it. 

792
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,400
I think it's such an important 
work and it just makes such a 

793
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,240
massive difference. 
I think comedy really does have 

794
00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:40,680
that power to reach people who 
maybe otherwise would have been 

795
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:41,920
closed off. 
You mentioned obviously 

796
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,080
Edinburgh Fringe, again, I'm not
experienced that. 

797
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:45,160
I had a friend who was there 
this year. 

798
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,880
I'm really keen to at some point
attend Edinburgh Fridge. 

799
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,680
What's that experience like as 
an act there? 

800
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:54,200
Do you get down time to go and 
explore and enjoy the shows? 

801
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,000
And if so, was there any that 
stood out for you? 

802
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,280
Just kind of what's the 
experience of being at the 

803
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,520
Fringe? 
The experience is is what you 

804
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,320
make of it. 
You can, you can sequester 

805
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,720
yourself away, you can close to 
yourself into a little room and 

806
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:07,920
you can just do your own show 
and go home. 

807
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,000
You can eat whatever you want 
every night. 

808
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,160
That's the Edinburgh Fringe 
experience. 

809
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,960
There's food everywhere if you 
have the time going and seeing a

810
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,040
bunch of other shows I think is 
the most valuable part of the 

811
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,280
Fringe. 
I was lucky enough to see a 

812
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,000
whole bunch. 
I saw Desiree Birch, who I, I 

813
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,120
love, as always, always kills 
it. 

814
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,680
I saw a show about they 
recreated the whole plot of 

815
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,120
Jurassic Park with three people 
on stage and like some props. 

816
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:32,920
Funniest thing I saw the whole 
time. 

817
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,960
I saw Mark, Mark Silcox as a bit
of a Fringe darling, and you 

818
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,160
have to go and see him to 
experience it. 

819
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,480
That's not something I can 
explain. 

820
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,040
Yeah. 
Seeing a bunch, a bit of 

821
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,160
everything's a bit of dance. 
This. 

822
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,400
This is what comedians are 
saying. 

823
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,600
Go see some comedy, but go see 
some dance and some theatre and 

824
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,680
some opera and some music. 
And go see someone, like, 

825
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,160
knitting a phone box while, 
like, hanging upside down off 

826
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,360
of, like, you know, off the 
Royal Mile. 

827
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,560
Or whether it's very cool to 
take in so much art because it 

828
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,520
stretches your brain in ways 
that you might think of a new 

829
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:07,120
idea for your own set material 
for the non, for the civilian, 

830
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,800
for the non professional, for 
the non comedian that wants to 

831
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,440
go up there. 
See, give yourself a handful of 

832
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,520
things that everyone says is 
great, and then pick a handful 

833
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,880
of things that you've not heard 
of at all and have that 

834
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,680
experience, because those are 
two very different experiences 

835
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,080
of the fringe. 
You you might see some duds at 

836
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,000
both ends of the spectrum, but 
you'll see a lot of magic as 

837
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,600
well. 
I love that. 

838
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,000
It sounds amazing and we have 
some Edinburgh Fringe folks 

839
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,520
coming on the podcast soon. 
So that's that's very exciting. 

840
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,600
Let's revisit young Jordan 
because that's how we started 

841
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,160
this podcast. 
If you could give your younger 

842
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,200
self one piece of advice, what 
would it be? 

843
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,560
And would it be different if I 
said, what advice would you give

844
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,760
to a young queer person today? 
Oh yeah, I reckon it would. 

845
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,560
I'd probably update the language
a little bit for right. 

846
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,520
So am I right? 
So I've like walked through like

847
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,640
a let's set the scene, right? 
I've walked through like a 

848
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,680
portal and like the kid is 
there. 

849
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,800
You're back in the pub. 
Back, I'm back in the pub, 

850
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,440
right? 
Little goth, little goth Jordan 

851
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,240
is all they're rocking out, 
right? 

852
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,600
First of all, I'd be like, I'm 
you, don't worry about the 

853
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:17,880
boobs. 
Let me explain have a night 

854
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,120
right? 
There's a lot to unpack. 

855
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,560
I appreciate that Also this 
accent you will it will develop 

856
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,840
over time like you, you are 
basically like an Essex person 

857
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:32,480
now I'd say don't ever put your 
your life's happiness and your 

858
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,200
life's sense of wholeness behind
somebody else's mild discomfort.

859
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,200
It's a right for somebody to be 
mildly uncomfortable with the 

860
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,040
situation That's fine Never want
to hurt anybody everyone like 

861
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,280
tread on anyone's toes or step 
on anyone's shoulders or or 

862
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,480
upset anyone. 
But you've got to draw a line 

863
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,720
somewhere. 
If your entire life's happiness 

864
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,680
and your ability to be a whole 
person is hidden behind one of 

865
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,080
your parents mild discomfort, 
get over it. 

866
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,000
Get over it sooner rather than 
later. 

867
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:00,440
Life gets shorter the further it
I mean, that's math. 

868
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,640
Life gets shorter the more of 
your life goes by. 

869
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,240
So those when you're a kid, it 
feels like it's going to go on 

870
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,440
forever when you're not child 
anymore. 

871
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,920
These this is precious. 
Got to live your life the best 

872
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,680
way that you know how. 
Be a good person. 

873
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,760
Hopefully I lived by that. 
Anyway, that's not advice I'd 

874
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,880
need to give to my young self. 
To a kid today, I'd say the the 

875
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,680
exact same advice does ring 
true. 

876
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:25,400
I'd also say spend a bit this. 
This doesn't work unless another

877
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:26,960
kid says it. 
To a kid, if an adult says it, 

878
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,240
they're like, go away you old 
person. 

879
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,320
Get off the Internet for a bit, 
just for a bit, because the 

880
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,760
internet's great. 
It actually is great. 

881
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,320
It's it allows, it's the tools. 
It's filled with amazing tools. 

882
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:37,360
That's why we're talking right 
now. 

883
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,440
Touch of flower. 
Put your foot in some grass, 

884
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,400
mate, Like do a bit of Wellness,
do a bit of rudimentary outside 

885
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,600
time because you won't be as 
stressed. 

886
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,120
I think kids nowadays, they get 
traumatised five times before 

887
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,960
they've even gone to school if 
they're on their phone and they 

888
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,680
see the news even like the 
normal news, like it's scary out

889
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,040
there. 
So talk to talk to other people,

890
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,560
be outside and be nice to each 
other. 

891
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,400
That one's a given. 
Also that that was way too long 

892
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,480
for a question. 
That was what one piece of 

893
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,760
advice that you would give. 
It's great advice though and 

894
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:14,960
very, very well warranted. 
OK, so what's next for Jordan 

895
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,560
Grey? 
You've mentioned obviously a 

896
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,720
potential Season 2, a 
transaction. 

897
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:20,280
Are we going to get another 
Channel 4 special? 

898
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,200
You mentioned a tour, kind of 
what's next? 

899
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:27,360
Well, I have my heart set on I 
mean, a season 2 is the golden 

900
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,720
ticket. 
That's what everybody wants of 

901
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:31,800
their comedy show and all the 
storylines are up there. 

902
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,880
And I think I'd like to explore 
Tom and Millie a little bit 

903
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,800
more, got some fun guest stars 
in mind. 

904
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,760
So that's that's one thing. 
Yes, this new show, is that a 

905
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,280
cock in your pocket? 
Are you just here to kill me? 

906
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,880
I'm doing a little tour of that 
and that's going all around the 

907
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,920
country. 
I've got my heart set on a 

908
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:48,240
musical. 
I want to write musical. 

909
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,920
I don't think the next live show
that I bring to Edinburgh will 

910
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,600
be a comedy special. 
It's going to be a one or two 

911
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,520
person musical. 
I just sort of admire those 

912
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,080
people like, like Tim mentioned 
that, you know, turned a comedy 

913
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,240
career into a career writing for
like, Pixar and writing for the 

914
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:08,800
West End and Broadway. 
And I'm just going to be popping

915
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,280
up on the TV loads. 
Sorry. 

916
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,640
And I'm sorry, guys. 
But if you're not a fan, well, 

917
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,280
you switch Poppy telly because 
I'm on it a lot. 

918
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,120
And that's my lot of life now is
I'm one of those comedians that 

919
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,920
pops up on on panel shows and 
various reality TV projects. 

920
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,560
Yeah, you know, I'm here. 
I'm sticking around doing my 

921
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:26,920
thing. 
I'll always be inside this 

922
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,720
rectangle, be it portrait or 
landscape. 

923
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,920
But I think that's amazing. 
I'm super excited. 

924
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,600
I'm definitely going to check 
out the tour. 

925
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,240
We will post the the ticket 
sales when they go on sale for 

926
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:40,920
everyone. 
And obviously, do yourself a 

927
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,680
favour, if you haven't watched 
Is It a Bird on Channel 4 or 

928
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,760
Transaction on ITV X, please do 
check them out. 

929
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,960
You won't be disappointed. 
There are incredible pieces of 

930
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,040
content and just really, really 
powerful. 

931
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,440
But Jordan, thank you so much 
for speaking with me today. 

932
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,000
Thank you so much for bringing a
little bit of joy and a little 

933
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,640
bit of happiness and a little 
bit of fun to everyone's lives. 

934
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:04,880
And just thank you for being on 
Quit Talking With Me today. 

935
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:06,880
Ben, I think I love you a little
bit. 

936
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,240
You're so nice. 
You're so good at this job. 

937
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:12,200
For one that's always endearing 
as a person that's very good at 

938
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,320
their job, but you're so kind. 
Thank you for those questions. 

939
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,200
Has made me think, made me think
as well. 

940
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,280
Keep listening to this podcast, 
everyone that why did I amplify 

941
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:20,680
my voice? 
It's on like it's on the 

942
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,480
Internet, I guess if this makes 
any difference. 

943
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:23,960
Keep listening to this podcast, 
everyone. 

944
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,640
Keep listening, keep tuning in. 
Ben, thank you so much for 

945
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:27,680
having me. 
It's been nice. 

946
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:30,880
Talker.