1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,680 For asexuality people have such a Sheldon Cooper esque visual 2 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:11,520 image. They kind of assume like not 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:16,440 just your aesthetic or your like age or your race or whatever but 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:21,440 also your personality type. Dude I'm in a old girls school. 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,440 We get changed together. If I was a lesbian, I would have 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,360 known by now. I think that when you kind of 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,760 reach a social point of being like so anonymous and like 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,280 invisible, it kind of gives you a lot of leeway to do whatever 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,560 you want. You wouldn't guess someone's 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,040 entire personality, life history, childhood, future 11 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,640 aspirations, all those things based on them being a lesbian. 12 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:49,640 But you weren't about someone being like asexual, seeing the 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,320 rest of queer culture alike change and grow in conversations 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,840 like intersectionality and all these other things. 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,640 And asexuality has just been in this Groundhog Days for like 100 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,640 years. And I'm like, someone has to say 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:04,440 something else. So let me just do it. 18 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:08,920 Hello and welcome back to the Queerest podcast telling the 19 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,840 fiercest stories. This is Queer talker and I'm Ben 20 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:13,960 Shechetti. This week I sit down with 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,960 asexual activist and model Yasmin Benoit. 22 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,840 But before we get to that conversation, I've got a very 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,000 quick favour to ask. Wherever you are watching or 24 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,880 listening to this episode, hit that subscribe button. 25 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,440 It's one click and it's going to make a massive difference. 26 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,040 It's allowing me to grow this podcast and it's allow me to 27 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,360 bring you the best and the Queerest episodes every single 28 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,920 time. So in advance, thank you. 29 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:37,880 Now to my conversation with Yasmin. 30 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,120 Right, Yasmin, let's jump straight in and we're going to 31 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,720 jump to our Queer Panic round. And the first question is, what 32 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,200 was the first album you ever owned? 33 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:55,240 I am pretty sure that it was let go by Avril Lavigne like her 34 00:01:55,240 --> 00:02:01,080 first album in like 2001. Amazing skater boy, all of that. 35 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,960 That's great. OK, well if you had to lip sync 36 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,240 for your life, what song would you choose? 37 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:16,280 I always like my karaoke song is usually Smells Like Teen Spirit 38 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,440 by Nirvana so I feel like that would have to be my lip sync for 39 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:20,160 my life. Song. 40 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,520 That would be epic. I'm not sure I've ever seen that 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:24,760 lip sync so I feel like that would. 42 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,480 Be really time to choose rock songs, but I feel like that 43 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,120 would be really fun Bring the. Vibe. 44 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,440 I can totally see it. So what is your favourite queer 45 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:38,800 movie or TV show? I mean, this is a very basic 46 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,960 choice, but just based on how many I've consumed, it probably 47 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,400 has to be RuPaul's track race in terms of hours I've put into 48 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,400 following the season. Yeah, the seasons, the different 49 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,600 countries. All Stars, All Stars, All Stars, 50 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:53,720 all of it. I feel it. 51 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:00,400 Who is your ultimate queer icon? It is a man who's actually on 52 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,240 the poster that's like to my left, which is Sir Ian McKellen, 53 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,120 because I grew up obsessed with X-Men and Lord of the Rings and 54 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,600 was very excited to realise who the actor was and like what he 55 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:15,640 actually stood for and like what he's done. 56 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:18,080 So he's been like my queer icon ever since. 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,120 Yeah, I feel that he's such an icon. 58 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,880 He's such a national treasure and kind of what he's done for 59 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,680 for the queer community, but also for bringing such 60 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,640 incredible mediums to life are X-Men and Lord of the Rings. 61 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:32,920 Who gets to be involved in two such iconic things? 62 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:37,040 It's amazing. And then maybe other than a 63 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,200 McKellen maybe, who is one person you would like to hear on 64 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:44,520 this podcast? I would probably have to go for 65 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,360 someone I'm sure you probably have crossed paths with before. 66 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,960 Like Charlie Craggs is so funny and every interview she gives is 67 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,680 so iconic. I feel like that was a really 68 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,360 fun person to hear from. Yeah, I agree totally. 69 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,760 Well, I will slide into the DMS and see if we can get them on 70 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,960 the podcast. And then finally, what is one 71 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,440 word you would use to describe your childhood? 72 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,440 I would say probably like sentimental. 73 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,360 I'm like very sentimentally attached to my childhood because 74 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,200 I feel like it was just really, it was good And and I'm one of 75 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:23,320 those people that's like just so nostalgia based because I enjoy 76 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,560 it. So I reflect on it fondly. 77 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,640 Yeah, I love that. Well, let's dig into that a 78 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,520 little bit more because as listeners know, I have this 79 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,840 theory about understanding someone as a young person to 80 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:37,080 understand them as an an adult. And we all like to consider 81 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,720 ourselves adults at this point, I guess, unfortunately. 82 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,760 So you say sentimental. So what do you know? 83 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,560 What should I know about you as a young person, child, teenager, 84 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,520 to understand the Yasmin that sits in front of me today? 85 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:56,080 Probably that. I mean, I was very, to be 86 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:58,200 honest, I was like a very odd kid. 87 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,480 I feel like I've had the same energy my whole life. 88 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,840 Like as a kid I was like a huge again, X-Men fan, Lord of the 89 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:10,360 Rings fan, WWE fan, like Rock and Metal fan. 90 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,520 Like I had Green Day pictures all over my room. 91 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,800 Like American Idiot was like my Bible. 92 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,680 I was just very much like marching to the beat of my own 93 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,320 drum, which my family very much let me do. 94 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,680 But it was not like, it didn't make me very popular at school, 95 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:34,880 but I was very like resistant to conformity and like amending 96 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,680 myself to make myself more popular and make friends. 97 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,640 I was very much just like, rebelliously, like lone wolfing 98 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:44,360 it to a counterproductive degree like well into college. 99 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,040 Like I started to think I was cool until like adulthood. 100 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,320 So what was it then? You know, we all talk about that 101 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,760 kind of nostalgic feeling. What was what kind of was the 102 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,440 nostalgia for you and kind of why do you have such a 103 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,360 sentimental attachment to kind of your your younger self? 104 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,640 I think just because, well, partially I think it's because 105 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,200 I've always like lived in the same place my whole life so I 106 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,200 can, which I feel like it's kind of unusual. 107 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:16,840 So I have like constant reminders of the past around me 108 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:18,600 all the time. And I also have a weirdly good 109 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,200 memory so I can remember like being in a buggy and being a 110 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,520 toddler. So I like constantly just have 111 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,080 like random memories come back to me and be like, oh, I 112 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,120 remember one else too. And this thing happened. 113 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,320 So I think that has something to do with it. 114 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,200 And then also because like I feel like my younger self would 115 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,800 be very impressed with me and I'm like always thinking like my 116 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:40,360 younger self think this was cool and she absolutely would like I 117 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,640 enjoy being able to satisfy my my inner child. 118 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,240 Yeah, I love that. I love the phrase be the person 119 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:48,320 you needed when you were younger. 120 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,640 So I kind of feel like you're doing that for yourself, which 121 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,080 is very, very cool. So if you take yourself back to 122 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,440 that time, then do you remember the first LGBTQ plus person you 123 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,640 kind of became aware of and how that felt in yourself? 124 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,200 You know what, it's weird because when I think about it, 125 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,680 and the only reason this came to me recently is because there's 126 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,160 been all that stuff about America's Next Top Model. 127 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,160 And now I think about it because I feel like that show didn't get 128 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,480 the credit for like the representation side of things. 129 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,400 I was thinking before a Drag Race. 130 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,760 It probably was actually not show because I used to watch 131 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,360 that as a kid, like seeing like Isis King and like Miss J and 132 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,400 like people like that. I think they were probably the 133 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:33,520 first like, black queer people that I actually saw on TV, like 134 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,600 before Paul's Jack race became popular. 135 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,960 Like I definitely saw like white queer people. 136 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,440 But yeah, that was like the first black ones I think that I 137 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,560 ever saw. Yeah. 138 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,520 It's so interesting and we will definitely get to kind of the 139 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,680 intersectionality of it because I think it's so interesting how 140 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,360 there are so many different components to our personalities 141 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,480 and obviously and our identities. 142 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,760 And obviously for you and I'm, I'm so curious to jump into this 143 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,800 because for our listeners who might not be familiar with it or 144 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,000 might have confusion around it or just haven't got as much 145 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,720 exposure. So I don't think it gets as much 146 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,840 mainstream representation. And you can obviously educate me 147 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,320 on this as well, like about the representation, but how do you 148 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,280 personally define asexuality? Yeah. 149 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,200 So asexuality just means when you experience little to no 150 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,960 sexual attraction towards anyone, regardless of their 151 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,320 gender. So it's a type of sexual 152 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:25,600 orientation, but kind of in the way that it isn't necessarily 153 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,920 oriented anywhere. So when some people kind of want 154 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,240 to be like, well, it's not actually a sexual orientation 155 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,280 then. And I'm like, well, in the same 156 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,600 way as black is the colour if you want to take it that way. 157 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:40,400 So, yeah, and I'm curious then for, you know, so for some of 158 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,640 our listeners who might be listening and might, I guess, be 159 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,200 wondering if they relate to what you're describing, how would you 160 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,640 explain the difference between asexuality and then things like 161 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,320 libido and sex drive that I feel like there's a lot of kind of 162 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:58,360 confusion and confusion around. Yeah, well, I mean, there are 163 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,280 people that are straight or gay or bi or whatever, and they 164 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,680 might go through a slump, they might have a dry spell, they 165 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,520 might have, I don't know, beyond medication that impacts their 166 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,000 libido. It doesn't stop them from being 167 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,280 gay. It doesn't stop them from being 168 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,560 straight and then vice versa. Like I'm doing experience sexual 169 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:19,040 attraction towards anyone. But I would say my libido was 170 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,520 like very average too high half the time. 171 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:26,440 So it doesn't necessarily have to be hide to anybody in order 172 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,480 to have a sexuality, if you think about it. 173 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,520 Yeah, I completely agree. And then I'm curious for you 174 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,080 like because we, as I just said and you let me know if I'm 175 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,240 incorrect in this, but it feels like asexuality just doesn't get 176 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,280 as much representation in mainstream press. 177 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,080 I know there has been some more recently and media and a lot of 178 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,880 us kind of learn to identify ourselves through things we see 179 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,520 when we're younger, through representation we see in TV or 180 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,440 movie or books or whatever it might be. 181 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,480 So I'm curious when you first became or came across the term 182 00:09:56,560 --> 00:10:00,640 asexual and what that moment felt like you and did it kind of 183 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,880 immediately resonate or did it take time to kind of recognise 184 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,560 that in yourself? It was, it was kind of a 185 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:11,320 combination. So I as the one who was a 186 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:16,440 teenager in like the twenty 10s, it was kind of like, well, I say 187 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,480 it was the peak Tumblr era. People older than me say 188 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,200 actually it was not, but it was when Tumblr was still like 189 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,840 pretty popular and I went to like a very bi curious all girls 190 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,280 school where our school reunions are like at pride to this day. 191 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:35,200 OK, so it was kind of like people were like, it was pretty 192 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,360 cool to have like a niche orientation thing, especially in 193 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,840 my social circle, which was all of like the emo kids. 194 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:42,960 So everyone was pretty by coded anyway. 195 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,880 And yeah, so it was actually other people kind of suggesting 196 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,040 it to me because I just wasn't giving anything. 197 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,160 And it was very, very obvious. And it was like a popular hobby 198 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,480 in my like year group to kind of come up with theories as to like 199 00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:00,600 what my deal was. And yeah, so someone kind of 200 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,200 suggested it to me. And then I went down like a 201 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,080 little Internet rabbit hole and I was like, terminology wise, 202 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:11,360 yes, it fits. Usefulness wise, not really 203 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:16,120 because no one knew what it meant outside of like a very 204 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,800 particular niche of people. So what's kind of a point in 205 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,080 having a term that you that it doesn't mean anything? 206 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,800 Everyone I saw on the Internet were white teenagers. 207 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:33,320 So I was like seemed very niche. Bit tuny I would say in terms of 208 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,360 like who was identifying as asexual? 209 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,240 And then I then couldn't use the word because then when I tried 210 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,680 to use it, people were like, well, you don't look asexual 211 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,560 because they're also thinking of blue haired white awkward 212 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:48,880 teenager cliche. So me being like a black girl, 213 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,880 it just wasn't fitting. So I was like, OK, I feel like 214 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:59,040 this is the right word, but also I can't really use it or embrace 215 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,080 it properly. And it was, again, it was so 216 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:03,720 niche. Like it was like, it's not in 217 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,360 the curriculum, It wasn't on TV, it wasn't in anything. 218 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,400 So I was kind of like, how do I even know this is legit? 219 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,800 How do I know that some kid on, on Tumblr didn't just make it 220 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,480 out? So I literally didn't really use 221 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,040 the word, even though I kind of knew that's what I was. 222 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,400 Yeah, that's interesting. And I'm curious to pick on 223 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,240 something you just said, which was, you mentioned that people 224 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,520 kind of it became a hobby of people to kind of try and quote 225 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:27,760 unquote, guess what your deal was? 226 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,440 How does that, how did that feel though? 227 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,640 Because you are obviously trying to explore yourself, you're 228 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,040 trying to identify your how you are feeling and how you identify 229 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,920 to have everyone kind of like quote unquote, trying to figure 230 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,640 out for you like it did. How did that feel? 231 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,080 And do you think that kind of slowed the process down? 232 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,200 Did it kind of speed the process up because you felt like this 233 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,200 pressure to figure out your deal? 234 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,400 I mean, I think it actually it speed it up. 235 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,720 So in hindsight, while it wasn't enjoyable, I'm like, I'm kind of 236 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:54,960 glad that people would just not get off my pack. 237 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,240 And we're like annoying because it did. 238 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,520 Like there are lots of people that don't realise or don't 239 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,920 discover these things until they're like in their 40s or 40s 240 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:04,520 or whatever. But because people were so 241 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,840 freaking obsessed, like wouldn't leave me alone, it meant that in 242 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,360 hindsight, I did kind of. It did speed up the process. 243 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,960 But yeah, it was annoying at the time because the assumptions 244 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,680 people were making were not positive assumptions. 245 00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:21,960 And even after I found the word, they were not positive 246 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:23,960 assumptions. I mean, well, one of them that 247 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,800 wasn't necessarily negative was just like, oh, she's gay. 248 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,680 Like people just assumed I was like, gay and would like, there 249 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:35,040 was this song by this band who, I do not remember their name, 250 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:36,680 but they were like popular on YouTube at the time. 251 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:40,840 But they had this song that was like, oh that girl, she must be 252 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,520 a lesbian who would just sing that to me every freaking time. 253 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,200 I came into like my student area because I'm almost like 254 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,000 convinced I was a lesbian and I was like, dude, I'm in an old 255 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,480 girls school. We get changed together. 256 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,120 If I was a lesbian, I would have known by now. 257 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,720 Like come on, there's options everywhere. 258 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,800 Like, I would just be a lesbian if that's what this was like. 259 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,040 Yeah. So it was, it was, it was weird 260 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,080 because also, yeah, people would just like, oh, there must be 261 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,960 something kind of like wrong with her. 262 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,800 Like, is she traumatised? Did she get abused as a kid? 263 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,080 Is she stunted? Like those were kind of like the 264 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,000 overarching ones that people would just casually say to me. 265 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:24,680 And so even after I like, had the term, people still be like, 266 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,160 oh, no, you're not. You're probably just this. 267 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:28,560 And then I was like, you know what? 268 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:30,200 I'm just like never mentioning this again. 269 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,600 Which obviously I ended up mentioning it again, but I did 270 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,120 actually spend many years like dodging it. 271 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,240 And when do you think you stopped kind of quote unquote 272 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,400 dodging it? So when did you start to feel 273 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,360 authentically yourself, authentically identify with 274 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,520 asexuality? And when then do you feel like 275 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,040 you could just bring it? Because obviously what you do 276 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,440 today is you're bringing that to the world and you're helping 277 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,200 educate, you're helping to kind of bring that kind of 278 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,040 representation so powerfully. When did you feel comfortable 279 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,400 doing that? It was pretty much when I was 280 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,480 out of school and like, no one could bother me anymore. 281 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:08,200 It was like, yeah, I feel like I was in uni at that point. 282 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,840 And at uni I was very much one of those kids that just did the 283 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,120 work and went home. I was not communicating with 284 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,560 people. I was not like that interactive. 285 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,360 So I was pretty anonymous. And I think that when you kind 286 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,840 of reach a social point of being like so anonymous and like 287 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,400 invisible, it kind of gives you a lot of leeway to do whatever 288 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,960 you want, like chaotic as it is, because it's like, well, what's 289 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,320 anybody going to do about it? So that's when I was like 290 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,800 modelling and I was building up my own like online platform 291 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,600 because I was like, no one in my personal life notices so I can 292 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,160 do whatever I want. And then that was when I was 293 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,320 like, oh, and let me just throw this in there because and the 294 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:53,080 algorithm just kept showing me a sexual related things as it does 295 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:57,080 because it always knows. And they were just really basic 296 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,320 and like it. I was like, this is exactly the 297 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,760 same stuff I saw when I was like 14. 298 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,560 How is this not progressed? Like I'm seeing the rest of 299 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,280 queer culture like change and grow conversations like 300 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,560 intersectionality, all these other things. 301 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,320 And asexuality has just been in this Groundhog Day for like 100 302 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,480 years and I'm like, someone has to say something else, so let me 303 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,240 just do it. Yeah, I love that. 304 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,200 And one of the things you have spoken about is kind of these 305 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,760 preconceived ideas that people have about how asexual people, 306 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,080 quote unquote, look or present. And I suspect even some of the 307 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,240 people listening to this podcast might have some of those own 308 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,320 assumptions in their heads. So what do you kind of wish 309 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,520 people listening truly understood about asexuality and 310 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,600 those kind of confusions and preconceived ideas that people 311 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,240 have? I think it all comes down to 312 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,040 people just like not taking it for what it is. 313 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,480 I think people don't see it as a sexual orientation in the same 314 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,600 way as they do the others. Like most people I would hope at 315 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,960 this point wouldn't be like, oh, you don't look like a gay man. 316 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,280 Or I mean that's what people probably still to say those kind 317 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,200 of things. But I feel like a lot of time 318 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,400 people would be a kind get able to clock that. 319 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,839 That's a weird thing to say. Like people wouldn't be like on 320 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:14,240 the basis of your race and be like you're gay. 321 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:15,760 I don't think so because you're black. 322 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,480 People wouldn't say that before a sexuality. 323 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:21,079 People have such a Sheldon Cooper S visual. 324 00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:23,680 Yes, that's such a good way to put it. 325 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,760 They kind of assume like not just your aesthetic or you're 326 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,760 like age or your race or whatever, but also your 327 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,160 personality type. Like people kind of take it as 328 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,040 like and also because a lot of our reputation representation 329 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:42,240 kind of blaze into that of like the kind of awkward wallflower, 330 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,720 like bookish, like doesn't really understand sexuality and 331 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,400 it's like very uncomfortable and squeamish and like very like 332 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,480 twee about it. It's like that kind of like what 333 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,360 we get. So I think that also kind of 334 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:58,320 plays into it. But I'm just like, it's just a 335 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,040 sexual orientated. Like it's one aspect of a person 336 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,520 that people kind of incorporate like, oh, so your social views 337 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,920 must be like this and you must be like really chast and anti 338 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,240 sex and squeamish and all of these other things that people 339 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,440 encompass into it. Whereas I'm like, you wouldn't 340 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,040 guess someone's entire personality, life history, 341 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,120 childhood, future aspirations, all those things based on them 342 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:23,480 being a lesbian, but you went for about someone being like 343 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,440 asexual. So I'm just like, just take it 344 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,600 as an orientation. Yeah, and I think some of that 345 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,640 totally comes down to kind of the representation we talked 346 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,280 about. Like there is there has been 347 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,040 such a growth in representation of so many parts of the LGBTQ 348 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,160 plus community, but it feels like in many ways asexuality 349 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,760 hasn't come on that same journey. 350 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:46,720 Do you think awareness of asexuality is improving or are 351 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,520 we kind of still at the beginning of the journey? 352 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,320 I mean, I can say for myself, I remember seeing obviously 353 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,160 there's an asexual character now on Heart Stopper, and it felt 354 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,320 like for me that was one of one of, if not the first time I'd 355 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,280 seen asexuality represented kind of in a mainstream show. 356 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,160 Yeah, I mean, I think it's, I don't know, it's, it's hard to 357 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,640 say cuz I feel like we're, we're in a very fragmented media era 358 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:16,600 where things don't hit the way they used to hit. 359 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,200 I think just in terms of like what was the word for like 360 00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,640 monoculture where like everyone was kind of tuned into the same 361 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,360 things where it's like, you know, like a billion people saw 362 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,480 the lesbian wedding on friends back in the day. 363 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,960 Whereas unless you're a certain demographic, you're not watching 364 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,960 heart stopper realistically. So a lot of things kind of end 365 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,920 up preaching to the converted sort of. 366 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:44,120 So I feel like on one hand, it's like we do have media and stuff 367 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,640 aimed at very particular demographic. 368 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:51,000 So I think is becoming more inclusive, but I also don't feel 369 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,600 like it's gotten outside of a very particular bubble. 370 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,040 And I also feel like it's still stuck in a bit of a Groundhog 371 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,200 Day where it's still very introductory. 372 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,840 Like I think that for asexual representation where where 373 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,880 everyone else was in like the late 90s where we have to play 374 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:13,040 it so basic and so safe and in that like. 375 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,040 Our characters very much have to still kind of play into the 376 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,320 cliches for people to find them palatable. 377 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,160 Whereas for like every other community, it's like, hey, we 378 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,160 could have a trans girl who's black or who's a sex worker or 379 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:27,880 who's disabled or who's neuro domestic. 380 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,160 Like all we can put all these things in there and like, oh, 381 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,800 and she can be messy and she can be in the drama, she could be in 382 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,400 the storylines and she can be doing this. 383 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,360 Whereas for us, it's still very much like just drop an 384 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,000 introductory sentence, sit in the background, don't offend 385 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,720 anybody, keep it really, really basic, which I think is why I've 386 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,520 ended up being a controversial example of a sexual 387 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,840 representation just because people are like, I didn't see 388 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,600 that one coming because we're used to the Sheldon Cooper 389 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,160 thing. That's kind of like the safe 390 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,960 zone. And I think we're still kind of 391 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,280 stuck in that. So on one hand, I feel like we 392 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,560 do have, again, I think especially just like with the 393 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,960 Internet, information is more accessible. 394 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,920 There are more examples of characters and stuff, but most 395 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,560 of our asexual characters or books or anything that that has 396 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,880 that, it's very much the same archetype. 397 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:21,360 And I'm like, I think we should have moved beyond it, but we're 398 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,320 still very much stuck in that safe zone right now. 399 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,240 Yeah. And you said kind of can't, you 400 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:27,800 know, controversial representation. 401 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,080 What do you think it is about that yourself that people feel 402 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,080 is controversial? Well, based on the comments I 403 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,440 can do. OK. 404 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:44,320 That my appearance is #1 which is not even specifically my 405 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:50,640 clothing, it's my race as well. I've noticed just based on the 406 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,600 nature of the comments. Because I can be like covered 407 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,400 from like head to toe. And then it will be like, well, 408 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,680 her lips are a bit or her eyes are a bit. 409 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,960 Her her whole demeanour is giving. 410 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,840 And I'm like, is it my demeanour or is it your like, or is it on 411 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:06,560 you? You know? 412 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,400 So yeah, I think appearance is definitely one thing. 413 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,320 And I think also just thought like I, I kind of have a very 414 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,480 like, I guess just by virtue of what like my modelling was 415 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,120 separately, I was like, I'm kind of coming into this from a 416 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:24,120 perspective that reads is very sex positive, Like I am a sex 417 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:26,040 positive person in terms of my views. 418 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:27,800 But like it's cut. You can't really dodge it when 419 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,920 it's like, oh, she's also like a lingerie model. 420 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:35,080 So it's, I think that is also like just like an angle people 421 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,880 aren't really ready for because even like in documentaries and 422 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,680 things like that, like they try to represent asexual people as 423 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,520 being again, very squeamish. Like there's like this kind of 424 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,680 cliche scene that they did in a documentary I was part of like 425 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,720 years ago. And I've been to other countries 426 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,600 and seen that in there other countries documentaries, they 427 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,600 always have the same scene where they take an asexual person and 428 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,880 they put them in a sex shop just to try and get them to like, I 429 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,800 don't know, burst into ball of flames or something like like 430 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,040 thinking they'll be like vampires in the sun. 431 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:10,880 Like, just because they're like, assume that you're gonna be 432 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,280 against that kind of thing. So for me to kind of immediately 433 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,760 be like, no, I'll write an article for Playboy and yeah, 434 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,840 I'll go for this place and I'll do GQ and I'll do all these 435 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,560 things. People are kind of like, oh, I 436 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,520 don't know what to do with that. And there are even some asexual 437 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,760 people that are like, oh, we don't know what to do with that 438 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,640 either because we were kind of more comfortable with the more 439 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,960 like chast version of the representation. 440 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,760 So yeah, I feel like that's kind of the big part of why people 441 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,040 are like a bit perplexed by me. Yeah, it's so interesting 442 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,920 because I think you, you know, you said something a little bit 443 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,800 earlier on in that I think it's so feels so accurate, which is 444 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,760 this representation is kind of as like quote UN quote, gay 445 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,640 representation was in the 90s, right? 446 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:53,840 There was this representation that all gay men were incredibly 447 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,800 flamboyant, incredibly camp. And we've managed to kind of 448 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,920 push parts that and it feels like to what you've said 449 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,560 asexuality is still in that, you know, quote, UN quote. 450 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,280 I think it's such an interesting way to put it, quote, UN quote 451 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,240 Sheldon Cooper kind of stage of they're just trying to put 452 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,600 everyone in a single bucket, a single way of representing 453 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,120 yourselves. And I think that's why it's so 454 00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:14,800 important that we do have and you have become such a powerful 455 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,880 voice across the asexual community, but across the LGBTQ 456 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,320 plus community as a whole. When did you, when did you 457 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,520 realise advocacy was something that you had within you that you 458 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,440 had a passion for and also you had a talent for? 459 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,320 Because you can have a passion for something and then not have 460 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,400 a talent for it, but you've got such a keen and clear talent for 461 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,680 it. When did all of that come 462 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,520 together? It was, I mean, it was a 463 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,520 surprise to me. I didn't really know. 464 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,360 I didn't because I mean, like I was like at university, I was 465 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:44,360 studying crime science. I was assuming I was going to be 466 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:49,400 like doing something else. Like it wasn't, I wasn't like 467 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,520 setting out for advocacy. I didn't even know anything 468 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,520 about any of this. Like I wasn't again, like I was 469 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,120 the kind of person that just like did the work and went home. 470 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:01,560 Like I wasn't really on any kind of scene. 471 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,640 I, my friends were not influencers. 472 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,360 I was not, I didn't live in London. 473 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:09,920 Like I was so like not in the bubble. 474 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,200 I learned everything as I like went. 475 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,360 And it was kind of one of those things where I was like, I kind 476 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:20,760 of went from just like riding the waves to kind of realising 477 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,680 like, let me steer it in different directions Because I 478 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,840 think a lot of the interest in me initially was kind of shocked 479 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,120 about you. Like the media was kind of just 480 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:33,160 like, oh, here's the lingerie model that doesn't want to have 481 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,600 sex. Like that was kind of like the 482 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,800 angle that they always went for. And I was like, well, while I've 483 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,560 kind of got your attention, which is very unusual for 484 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,320 anything asexuality related, like let me just see if we can 485 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,040 poke it in a human rights direction or in like a kind of 486 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,200 different way. So it was kind of something that 487 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,640 I just sort of fell into about really knowing anything about 488 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:56,760 it. Like I didn't know that there 489 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:01,600 were like LGBT award shows and like all these magazines and 490 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,800 like this whole like sphere. I think especially like in 491 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,560 London, like I don't need been to London Pride once before. 492 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,160 I was like doing things in it, like, like it was all like very 493 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,560 kind of fresh for me. But yeah, after a while I was 494 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,880 like, I can't deny that I've got a knack for it because I'm 495 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,160 managing to kind of make things happen that other people haven't 496 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,080 really been able to do before. But I was, I was surprised. 497 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,120 I was like, this is what I saw coming but I'm into it. 498 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,880 Yeah, and we're all loving it. Like shout out you won the 499 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,960 British LGBT Awards when I was there last year. 500 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,160 It was an incredible moment. I thought it was such a cool 501 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,280 thing and you obviously have mentioned a few times and I'm 502 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,120 low key a little bit obsessed with modelling at the moment 503 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:49,480 because I did watch the American Next Top Model documentary not 504 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:50,640 that long ago. You mentioned your modelling 505 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,360 career. I'm super curious how you got 506 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:55,080 started in modelling and kind of your career journey there. 507 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,200 Yeah, that was another one of those things that was kind of 508 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,920 like a bit of a fluke, I think, and also kind of connected to 509 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,240 just me being again, like, I was like a very inconspicuous, 510 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,600 invisible kid. I did as I was not popular. 511 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,400 I didn't have a lot of friends to hang out with, so I just had 512 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,120 a lot of hobbies. And I'm also an only child. 513 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:18,760 So I was definitely like from childhood, just always doing 514 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,000 like martial arts and gymnastics or football, like whatever it 515 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,800 was. And then I think, I know, I 516 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,680 think someone just like all my picture on my mom's desk and was 517 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,720 like, oh, does she want to do like Kitty modelling and stuff? 518 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,760 Like when I was younger. But then I kind of aged out of 519 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,120 it kind of quickly because I was like already like hitting like 520 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:38,040 16 ish. But I was like, Oh well, I kind 521 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,440 of was like that kind of made me intrigued by though like I 522 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,280 hadn't thought about it before. And also as someone that was 523 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,520 very into like and still is into like alternative fashion and 524 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,440 like alternative subculture and like heavy metal and stuff, 525 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:55,120 there was a big gap in terms of black models in that, which had 526 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:58,440 kind of made my life harder because people prior to being 527 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,720 like you don't look asexual. It would always see people like 528 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,600 judging my style like on that basis. 529 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,360 So I kind of like was more interested in that area. 530 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:10,120 So all my early work is still a lot of my work now as a brand 531 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:13,840 like Kill Star and Disturbia and Cyber Dog and like all of that. 532 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,720 And then because they had like double DS more appropriate for 533 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,360 lingerie than catwalk. So I wouldn't have been against 534 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:23,120 a catwalk, but that's just not my body shape. 535 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,440 So kind of also started doing all that. 536 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,280 And then, yeah. And then kind of the activism 537 00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,080 kind of came into it. But yeah, it was just another 538 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,560 one of those things where I actually sort of approached it 539 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,520 from like a, like all of the original articles that I wrote 540 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,240 were all about like representation in fashion and 541 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,880 about alternative subculture and like blackness and like Gothic 542 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,360 settings and all those kind of things. 543 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,960 Like that was like what my early writing was about, like before 544 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,840 the asexuality stuff. So I think that was probably 545 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,440 like an example of my early interest in this without it 546 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,880 manifesting the same way. It was like same energy for 547 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,640 sure. Yeah. 548 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,040 And is there a moment from kind of your modelling work you look 549 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,080 back on as like such a proud moment or a particular moment 550 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:08,960 you kind of feel such pride about? 551 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,120 I think for me it's just being able to work with the kind of 552 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,480 places that I really liked when I was younger, like I remember 553 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,120 as a kid. So he like didn't live in 554 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,920 London. Like I went to Camden Market to 555 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,160 get my prom clothes. So yeah, like, yeah, the corset, 556 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,720 the Tutu, the big boots. I remember seeing like fibre dog 557 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,120 and being like, Oh my God, that's the coolest thing I've 558 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,840 ever seen in my life. Like, but I never would have 559 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,760 thought like, oh, I could like shoot for them someday or 560 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,000 something. So when I actually did get to do 561 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,560 that and I could go on their website and see myself on there 562 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,960 like in the clothes, I'm like, oh, my younger self would never 563 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,960 believe that. Like I have pictures of my like 564 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,760 16 year old self outside the cyber dog like, and even the 565 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,280 same for like Anne Summers. Like there's a picture of my 566 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,880 teenage self because I thought Anne Summers was so pretty and 567 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,800 mysterious for some reason as a kid. 568 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,200 And there's a picture of me like outside of one of their shops 569 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,200 when I was like 15. And then I got to like model for 570 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,400 them like as an adult. And I'm like those kind of 571 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,520 things. Like very much ties back to me 572 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,840 satisfying the inner child would never believe it. 573 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,960 Yeah, I love that. That's so cool. 574 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:18,960 And it's so nice that you kind of, you know, it's for your 575 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,840 inner child. But there'll be so many young 576 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,520 people out there who can kind of see themselves reflected. 577 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,200 And that's how I can achieve these things. 578 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,520 And I think because we touched on insectionality so much, I am 579 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,080 curious, and it comes up a lot on this podcast because so many 580 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,720 of us have so many different dimensions to our personalities 581 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,440 and our identities. How How is the intersection of 582 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,160 being a Black asexual woman shaped your experience today? 583 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,400 I mean, I think it's made a big difference because it's kind of 584 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,640 one of those like minority within a minority experiences. 585 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,960 Because I kind of realised like right at the beginning, like, 586 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,840 oh, being black is going to make a different not just like in 587 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,000 life, but also in terms of like the asexuality part. 588 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:06,120 Like my peers in like such a kind of bi curious, queer 589 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,480 friendly old girls school. They, it wasn't that they didn't 590 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,360 believe in asexuality. They didn't believe in it for me 591 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,200 in particular. So I kind of already caused the 592 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,720 distinction there. And then also again online, like 593 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,480 I'm seeing all this stuff, but I'm like, there must be a reason 594 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,520 why I'm not seeing any black people talking about this, why 595 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,120 it's only like white kids. And then when I kind of started 596 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,440 doing this work, like I remember like the first kind of 597 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,720 documentary I did, they only wanted to put white people in it 598 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:38,800 and like the one that was on asexuality. 599 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,640 And then I did like another one that we were intentionally 600 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,040 aiming to make it more diverse and like it was me and three 601 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,400 other white people. But when it came to the 602 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,320 televised version, they cut me out of it. 603 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,160 And like, I'm understanding this now. 604 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,880 Like, I'm getting it. Yeah, I was still on the online 605 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,880 version. And the comments I got compared 606 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,080 to the comments that, like, the white asexual people and it got 607 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:08,320 was like, drastically different. Like mine were so like, sexually 608 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,360 aggressive, like, weird and violent. 609 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,280 And like, everyone else's was just like, I don't understand 610 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,120 that term. And then for me, it was like, 611 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,680 hope she gets raped and deported. 612 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,200 And I'm like, OK, different energy again, it's just been a 613 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,520 different energy like ever since. 614 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,440 Like people just do not interpret it the same way. 615 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,960 Like even. And also I think just like in 616 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,640 terms of activism, like in the scene, as I'm sure you've seen, 617 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,760 it's a very, I don't think this is just a UK thing, but it's a 618 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,920 very like like white gay seen when it comes down to it, like 619 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,000 in London and beyond. Like if you're talking about who 620 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,160 runs the platforms or who has the who's like in control of 621 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:51,160 anything, it is kind of one particular demographic, which 622 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,560 means that people kind of have that subconscious thing where 623 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:58,040 they're more just inclusive of people that look like them. 624 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,640 So even just like getting in the room is harder because I'm like, 625 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,960 I'm only going to be one of a couple of black women in there 626 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,520 and Lady Phil's going to be the other one. 627 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,720 So like there's only so many, there's only so much space. 628 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,040 Like it's, I think intersectionality is not really 629 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,800 a conversation. The career scenes got a hold of 630 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,360 very well yet. So even if I'm just trying to 631 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,120 get asexuality in there, I've got the additional hurdle of 632 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,200 that I don't fit just as like a black woman. 633 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,880 So even getting in proximity to people to tell them about 634 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,840 asexuality is hard. And then even trying to organise 635 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,000 things like within the asexual community because there's like 636 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,400 racism there as well. It's a predominantly white 637 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,880 community. So it's just like, it's just 638 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,680 like an extra layer on top of all of the layers really. 639 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,600 Yeah, and then I'm so, you know, social media can be such a 640 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,680 positive thing in that it allows us to have a platform and to 641 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,720 tell our stories. But obviously, as you've just 642 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,240 alluded to, the comments section and what can come through can be 643 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,840 horrific and really damaging and obviously have a massive impact 644 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,160 on people's mental health. How do you protect yourself from 645 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,800 that? How do you continue to be such a 646 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,760 positive force for change whilst kind of like knowing that that's 647 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,120 the backdrop of it all? I think, and I mean, this always 648 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,280 sounds bad and I'm not advocating for it, but I do 649 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,920 think it was somewhat beneficial that I got bullied in school. 650 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,360 And I'm not saying we should bully kids, but I do think that 651 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,560 it built so, you know, some resistance for me. 652 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,080 And that was kind of one of the early things when I, when you 653 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,120 were like, oh, when did you kind of realise that you had like a 654 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,920 knack for it? I was like this like a lot of 655 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,760 other people I know that have tried this. 656 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,560 Once that part starts or once it kind of starts getting hard, 657 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,080 they're just like immediately burned out immediately over it. 658 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,880 Like I don't get burned out for whatever reason. 659 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:49,040 I don't know why I don't like it just like it's irritating, but 660 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,880 it's not like destructive for me. 661 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,679 I'm, it kind of rolls off me very easily, I think because I'm 662 00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:59,000 also like, I'm pretty good at like separating it. 663 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:03,280 Like I think outside of like people knowing my work in terms 664 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,440 of asexuality and modelling and stuff, most people don't know 665 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,640 anything else about me. And I'm not against that. 666 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,080 Like I'm not one of those. Like people don't even know 667 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,880 where I live half the time. Like people just assume I'm just 668 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,680 in London all the time. Yeah, who don't know what I do 669 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,520 outside of this. So what my interests are 670 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,560 anything or who my friends are or, and I'm so I kind of feel 671 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,360 like I have like a Hannah Montana like alter ego sort of 672 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,640 where I can just like I can literally just go back to like 673 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,760 being totally invisible and like conspicuous like in my town. 674 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,840 And then I go back to like the glamour and confusion of London. 675 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,080 And then I head back out. And I think it's kind of the 676 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,240 same with the Internet. Like, I'm kind of good at being 677 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:46,640 like just drifting off into my own alternate reality and yeah, 678 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,520 just like going into my own imagination. 679 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,840 So I don't know what it is that makes it easier for me to do 680 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,720 that, but it kind of makes it more manageable. 681 00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,480 And then also I feel like I can kind of use myself as a case 682 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,560 study because a lot of people don't understand what hatred 683 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,800 towards asexual people looks like. 684 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,560 I got happy to be like, well, how could anyone be mad at that? 685 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,240 What would they even say? And I'm like, here you go. 686 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,640 I have many example. I'm like, I've noticed people 687 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,480 have literally used me in like essays and stuff as an example, 688 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,120 like as a case study of these things. 689 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,600 So I feel like it can kind of make it useful in terms of like 690 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,000 raising awareness of what like ace phobia looks like. 691 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,840 So it's not an entirely like futile experience. 692 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,640 Yeah, And look, you, we've come up a lot on this podcast. 693 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,640 It's this idea of your younger self and this idea of being the 694 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,280 person you needed when you were younger. 695 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:40,960 The person is going to think it's so cool that you're 696 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,360 achieving all these things. So as we end the podcast, I want 697 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,360 to revisit your younger self. If you could give your younger 698 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,320 self one piece of advice, what would it be? 699 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,520 And would it be different if I said, what advice would you just 700 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,520 give to a young LGBTQIA plus person today? 701 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,640 I think you would be the same actually, because like what I 702 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,400 would say to my younger self would just be like, stay weird 703 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,640 because there's a lot, a lot of pressure not to be like, it was 704 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,960 very counterproductive for many years, but I never conformed. 705 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:17,320 And I feel like if I had done, it would have taken me way 706 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,920 longer to get to this stage. And also it's like it did work 707 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,040 out in the end, which it can be kind of hard to think that far 708 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,440 ahead when your brain still like developing. 709 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,000 But like literally like I can say that my school bullies 710 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,200 follow me on Instagram now and they think I'm awesome. 711 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,520 Like it's literally that like, like I never changed my style, 712 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,080 my interests. I didn't pretend to be anything 713 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,160 else and people just got over it and got into it. 714 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,280 So and I feel like that is kind of how it once you just get out 715 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:54,160 of that intensity of school, you there are so many more like like 716 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,360 minded people out there, you just gotta get through that bit. 717 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,080 So yeah, that would be my advice. 718 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:01,720 Yeah, I think that's great advice. 719 00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:03,680 What you know, when you're younger, what you feel makes you 720 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,160 different is actually what makes you unique, and it's going to 721 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,160 what's going to be kind of a superpower for you going 722 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,720 forward. So I think that's fantastic 723 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:11,720 advice. Yasmin, thank you so much for 724 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:14,480 being on Queer Talk with me. There's been such an interesting 725 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,600 conversation and I just think the work you're doing is so 726 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,520 important. And the more that we can raise 727 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,360 awareness and just normalise so many different representations 728 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,400 of all parts of the LGBTQ plus community, I think is really, 729 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:27,080 really important. So thank you so much for your 730 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,400 work and thank you so much for being on Queer Talk with me 731 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,880 today. Thank you. 732 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,040 Thanks for having me.