1 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:10,240 Because of the Catholic thing, any kind of queer want felt 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:11,720 wrong. It felt a destructive. 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,000 I took this opportunity when I got fired to really sit there 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:21,320 and say either I can I can boohoo and not do anything about 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:24,880 it or I can try to discover what being full time would look like. 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,600 I believe that I'm the Simon Cowell of drag in this 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,280 community. I can evulcably look at somebody 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,160 and see where your heart, your craft and your your 9 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:41,400 determination aligns together to say you deserve this shot. 2 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,440 parents that had no kids at that school complained that I was 11 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,800 there and it went to Rush Limbaugh. 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,440 It went to it literally went international news. 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,560 I got called an axe murderer by Rush Limbaugh. 14 00:00:53,160 --> 00:00:56,920 Seeing somebody that exists like you is ridiculously powerful, 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,800 and when you see somebody that exists like you doing something 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,800 that you can see yourself doing, it's the most inspiring thing 17 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,680 that you're going to hold on to. Hello and welcome back to the 18 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,560 Queerest podcast telling the fiercest stories. 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:11,880 This is queer talker and I'm Ben Cechetti. 20 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,360 This week I sit down with the incredible and the inspiring 21 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,040 drag performer Jessica Lahore. But before we get to that 22 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,760 conversation, I've got a very quick favour to ask. 23 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,040 Wherever you are watching or listening to this episode, hit 24 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,480 that subscribe button. It's one click and it's going to 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:29,960 make a massive difference. It's going to allow me to grow 26 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,760 this podcast and it's going to bring you the best and the 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,320 Queerest episodes every single time. 28 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,200 So in advance, thank you. Now to my conversation with 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:45,520 Jessica, Miss Jessica, Jessica Lahore, if you're nasty, we will 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,960 start with our queer panic rapid fire set of questions. 31 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,760 You just respond with the first thing that comes to your mind, 32 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,600 starting with what was the first album you ever owned? 33 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,400 Now that's what I call music #9 there's like 78 now, but number 34 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,400 9 is the one that I owned. I love that. 35 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,720 I love that now comes up a lot on this, which I love. 36 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:08,479 Like, I think it's a lot of people's kind of first 37 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:11,120 introduction to to record. So I couldn't say like one 38 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,520 person's specific album, but one of a conglomerate for sure. 39 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,400 Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. 40 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:22,120 What is your or would be your lip sync for your life song of 41 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,160 choice? OK, there's there's two. 42 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,160 I know it's just one rapid fire, but it's either Pictures of Your 43 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,160 Dick by Rachel Bloom. It's hilarious, it's very fun, 44 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,360 it's very exciting, or amazing by high fashion. 45 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,840 It's really sassy. It's really, it's got a good 46 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,120 flow to it. It's real dancy. 47 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,320 Love the lyrics. I love that. 48 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,920 Well, as everyone knows, we have a Spotify playlist that we Add 49 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:46,320 all those songs to so they can all go and check those out now, 50 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,280 which I love. Please add the pictures of your 51 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:54,440 Dick 1. Who was a childhood celebrity 52 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,280 crush of yours? It is Cameron Diaz when she 53 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:03,240 walks in wet to the bank in the mask in that red dress, and 54 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,640 she's hitting on Jim Carrey. Immediate crush pants. 55 00:03:07,640 --> 00:03:10,080 Yeah, yeah. I actually just watched that 56 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:12,760 movie The other weekend, so very very fresh in my mind. 57 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:20,480 Fresh in my mind to the storm. What is your biggest red flag? 58 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,440 You know, I wasn't sure if you wanted us to be like a drag red 59 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,880 flag or like a human human red flag. 60 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:27,560 But I'm just going to go generalise. 61 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:34,080 People that have a 0 awareness, like social awareness, like no 62 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,720 emotional or social awareness of the people around them. 63 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,520 Immediate red flag. Like for super easy things like 64 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,600 this person might need a door held open or this person doesn't 65 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,920 seem OK or something very general. 66 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,000 Like you should be able to tune in to the surroundings of people 67 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,240 around you. Yeah I agree that kind of lack 68 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,760 of awareness is is is a big red flag for sure. 69 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,760 What is your favourite queer movie or TV show? 70 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,320 I kind of want to go. I don't. 71 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,880 I feel like it's claimed by the queers Devil Wears Prada. 72 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,360 I know the second one is coming out. 73 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,400 It's not necessarily a queer cult classic. 74 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,200 If you're going queer cult cult classic, it's probably going to 75 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,200 be to 1 Foo if you're talking like dragon queer but claimed by 76 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,399 the queers Devil Wears Prada. I'm very excited for the second 77 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:18,880 one. Yeah, I saw the musical in 78 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,079 London. It's fantastic. 79 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:27,560 So yeah, I'm all about it. If you were to compete on 80 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,680 RuPaul's Drag Race, what would be your go to Snatch Game? 81 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,800 You know, I, I've thought about this many, many times, but I 82 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:42,640 kind of want to go with Larry the Cable Guy as one option. 83 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,360 I know that sounds really insane, really insane, but 84 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:46,440 that's. I can see it. 85 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,200 That's where my spirit comes from. 86 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,160 OK, I look like I'm rushing A sorority, but I'm really a 87 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:56,160 redneck deep down in my soul. And then I'm Miriam Margolis. 88 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,800 Yes. I'm obsessed with her interviews 89 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,240 and just she's like a more tame Tammy Brown from the show. 90 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,520 There's just something about her that just is off the charts wild 91 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,040 and I think I could embody her. Yeah, I agree. 92 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,520 She's Miriam Margulies is Like a dream guest of mine for this 93 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:14,120 podcast. As well. 94 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,800 Really. Yeah, we'll make it happen. 95 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,440 Now. Who is your ultimate queer icon? 96 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,680 I really, God, I, I feel like modern day queer icon. 97 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,160 It's it's Gaga. I I I've been here with her a 98 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,560 little monster since the very beginning, even before she was 99 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,760 taking off. I'm researching some of her 100 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,280 earlier stuff, but if I'm going like iconic diva, like she paved 101 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:40,960 the way, it's probably Shirley Bassey. 102 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,320 I'm obsessed with her voice, her stage presence, her, her 103 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:50,800 Hollywood glam and the way that she out onto the onto her live 104 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,000 performances. So those two from now to old 105 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,360 school. Amazing choices. 106 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,920 Who is one person you would like to hear on this podcast? 107 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:02,880 Such a selfish question. Miriam Margolese. 108 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:07,600 Margolese. Calling you We need you on this 109 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,920 podcast. I'll take anything that you're 110 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:11,760 on a podcast for. We're just perfect. 111 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:14,080 Thank you. Yes. 112 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,920 And now I can tag her and you know, we'll make it happen. 113 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:19,640 Exactly. Yeah. 114 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:25,160 Look out for this soon final of our Quipanic questions. 115 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,520 What is one word you would use to describe your childhood? 116 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,880 Confusing. Confusing. 117 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,640 OK, OK. Well, we can call it a little 118 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,880 bit more. Stick with one word for that one 119 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,920 Very, very hard. I'm a, I'm a this, this, this 120 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,480 and that kind of girl. So just confusing. 121 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,400 Confusing. I like it. 122 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,920 So let's pull on that thread a little bit because as long term 123 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,520 listeners know, I have this theory that to understand 124 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,880 someone today, you first need to understand them as a young 125 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,640 person and as a child. So you say confusing. 126 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,880 What should I know about you as a child or a teenager to 127 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,040 understand the Jessica that sits in front of me today? 128 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,240 Oh my God, I would say ridiculously sheltered. 129 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:17,600 Very Catholic, family reserved. My dad was very involved in 130 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,920 making sure his kids turned out right the way he wanted them. 131 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,840 So like can't pick things up with the left hand, have to pick 132 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,960 things up with the right hand. He would only have right-handed 133 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,920 kids. Very controlling over what 134 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,800 activities we would do in school or where his levels of interest 135 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,520 would be involved with. Like what he thought was 136 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,200 important for us to grow up on. Family was super close and then 137 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,480 broke really quickly once we moved. 138 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,240 Moved as a kid. Super sheltered. 139 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,320 Didn't come out his career until 23. 140 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,680 Really tumultuous relationship with my with my parents and 141 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,720 extended family. I really didn't discover the 142 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,320 type of person that I was or went through large periods of 143 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,880 like self hatred and dwell dysmorphia for like the 1st 10 144 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:03,480 to 15 years after like of my my middle ground era. 145 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,040 I don't know how to set my teens. 146 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:10,080 There we go middle ground teens. I feel like it's important to 147 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,720 know that I've always had a weird like sick twist, twisted 148 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,400 sense of humour in some ways. And so drag allows me to bring 149 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:24,880 that out in the most appropriate ways really, I would say 150 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,960 ultimately shelter and like very naive to the world around me 151 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,400 growing up. So once I was able to moving it 152 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,000 to college, I learned a lot really quick and that's really 153 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,360 escalated to where I am now. And then in that kind of 154 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,799 experience of, you know, you talk about kind of relatively 155 00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:42,679 sheltered childhood, teenage years and then obviously going 156 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,080 off to college. When do you do you remember the 157 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,840 first queer LGBTQ plus person you became aware of, either in 158 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,280 real life or kind of in media? I do only because I remember 159 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,480 them like in the box in the back of my head when I'm when I'm 160 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,520 hearing this question, I'm like, oh, this unlocks. 161 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,600 Like the first person I remember at one point being maybe 3rd or 162 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:06,360 4th grade and seeing my gym teachers, both guys making out 163 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,880 in the hallway but not understanding anything about 164 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,280 that because they both had wives. 165 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,200 And I remember that very, very specifically, I was walking 166 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,840 American Idol and one of the quick contestants while the 167 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,440 finalists was in Mohawk. But he was, I don't know if he 168 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,480 was queer, but my mom would unfortunately yelled queer at 169 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,080 him at the TV and I didn't know what that was. 170 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,200 So there's that. But when it comes to like first 171 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:33,200 out proud, like mentor in college, I have my mentor even 172 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,480 today. His name is Kyle Oldham. 173 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,800 He taught me really what being proud and loud and queer and 174 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,360 exciting was. And then I guess like my first 175 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,600 queer interaction when I was told like guys could like me was 176 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,560 freshman year of high school, maybe sophomore year of high 177 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:48,280 school, I had a guy tell me like me. 178 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,360 And I'm like, that's weird. That doesn't seem possible. 179 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,560 And then I guess hearing that from another guy, what was the 180 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:58,400 kind of a lot of us kind of remember that first feeling 181 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,560 inside that first kind of spark and awareness of our queerness. 182 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,840 Do you remember when you first felt that inside you and how 183 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,080 that made you feel giving kind of your your family background? 184 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,120 Yeah, it was pretty rough. When I heard that out loud. 185 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,240 I really, I didn't even inquire more to adults. 186 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,000 I just kept inquiring in my head of that possibility. 187 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,520 Although the Internet was accessible during that time, 188 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,480 everything was very slowly downloading. 189 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,240 So like research on the Internet wasn't quite the same. 190 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,040 I think it was a good explanation for feelings that I 191 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,080 might have been a feeling inside or been trying to explain or 192 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,920 make excuses for in the past. Why was I interested in the, you 193 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,120 know, at the sleepovers with the boys, finding ways to be, you 194 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,920 know, curious and inquisitive with each other, things like 195 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,520 that. But I because of the Catholic 196 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:51,400 thing, any kind of queer want felt wrong, felt destructive. 197 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,200 Anything from sexual expression, pornography, masturbation to to 198 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,440 just being interested in guys felt very wrong, sinful, 199 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,160 terrible. Why can't I control this? 200 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,840 Why do I like this? And so that was like a long 201 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,080 period for at least a year until I changed my attitude to being, 202 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:12,080 I'm straight, but I'm going to have gay revenge and I would 203 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,560 like, sleep with guys or make out with guys, but I was still 204 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:16,800 straight. But I did it just so I could 205 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,840 break their heart. So there's a lot of weird, like 206 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,240 religious trauma that came with a period of my time. 207 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,840 Yes, I guess that must have been really hard to unpick, 208 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,080 especially when it it's also your family, right. 209 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,080 And you know, family is important either biological or 210 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,960 chosen to unpick that. When do you think you first felt 211 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,720 authentically yourself, and then when do you feel you could just 212 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,200 bring that unapologetically to everything? 213 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,120 I'm not going to lie, my authentic self probably came in 214 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:49,000 end of 2930 like in the last couple of years. 215 00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:53,240 Quite a journey. Daily practises daily at Words 216 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,320 of affirmation. I feel like sometimes if you're 217 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:01,680 on a path like this, you don't lose old bad habits, you learn 218 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:04,040 how to manage them as you get older. 219 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:09,240 And so I would say 2930 was like first hard hit of being like, 220 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,680 this is the human that I am and this is who I'm going to 221 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:13,960 embrace. But even to this day, at 32, 222 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,000 last three or four years, there's been a lot of resistance 223 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,760 and still pushing through some of those films or some of those 224 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,120 boundaries to really become the person that I want to become. 225 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,480 I find myself on better days and then other days I I don't know 226 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,200 who that person is. And it's, it's weird. 227 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,120 It's a weird feeling to go back to old school mentalities. 228 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,840 Yeah, I can imagine. And then you mentioned we've 229 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,000 talked about kind of family a lot already. 230 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,320 So when I say family to you, what do you think of? 231 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,680 Do you think of your biological home family or do you think of 232 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:46,760 your chosen family where you are now? 233 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,000 You know, I have always been a big stickler of just using the 234 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,480 terms that fit best with me, and I know a lot of people do too. 235 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,920 What I mean by that is when you say family, I do think of my 236 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,200 biological family. I think of my sisters, I think 237 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,400 of my parents, I think of my aunts, uncles, cousins. 238 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,880 When you say chosen family, that is the family that feels closest 239 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,760 to my heart. Like that is the the family that 240 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,680 feels like they've been there for me, love me 241 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:11,880 unapologetically. Been through different stages of 242 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,560 my life depending on when they came into my life. 243 00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:17,800 But I do separate the two. I still give the weirdest 244 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,080 respect to like when other people come to me like oh I'll 245 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,680 be your mom. I'm like well I already have one 246 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:23,120 She just chooses not to be part of my life. 247 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,920 But you can be my my loving like mom figure and give me a hug. 248 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,040 But I I feel like weird taking titles from those different 249 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,160 categories. Yeah, I can appreciate that. 250 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,840 And obviously, we've touched on the fact that Denver is your 251 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,000 kind of home base. It's where you call home, but in 252 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,040 2025, you've toured across, I think there's 15 different U.S. 253 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,400 cities, which is incredible. How would you describe the 254 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,960 climate of drag and for LGBTQ bus people as it compares to 255 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,720 Denver and then all those cities that you visited? 256 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,600 You know, I learned a lot when travelling across the country 257 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,360 and I the last time I travelled was the beginning of 2020. 258 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:06,400 I was doing 32 cities and COVID shut down like I was 5 cities in 259 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,280 and as I was go heading to my next place, shut down, shut down 260 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,880 and taken from me. So it's been five years since 261 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,680 I've gotten to travel consistently and so, so much 262 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:19,520 impact in one month to figure out what drag was like in the 263 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,280 career scene was like. And I think that it's, it's been 264 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,600 really rewarding to see how powerful all things given with 265 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,240 our country in the US happening that they're still positive, 266 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:35,480 strong queer forces, whether that be this like 20 to 30 year 267 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,680 old range or I'm talking about like queer elders. 268 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,560 So going to Salt Lake and meeting some of my queer elders 269 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,280 that have been working hard in a place that is so conservative 270 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,560 and so anti queer, but still strong, loud and proud is really 271 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,120 inspiring to see. When I travelled around the 272 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,920 country, you could definitely see how drag was appreciated, 273 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,320 how it was treated, how queer people were treated by venues 274 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,480 across the country. I'm realising that Denver kind 275 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,600 of sits in the middle. We're not some of the worst 276 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,880 venues that take advantage of our queer artists. 277 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,240 And on the other end, there are venues that are truly partnering 278 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,720 with the artists to make entertainment a full benefit for 279 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,120 everybody. The venue succeeds, the industry 280 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,320 worker succeeds, the artist succeeds, and it's a full 281 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:19,760 circle. And there's not a break in that 282 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,040 chain. So I feel like Denver could be 283 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,320 doing more when I'm looking at like the queer culture around. 284 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,040 I was thankful not enough to not have to experience any kind of 285 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,240 backlash or any kind of protesters or any kind of 286 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,480 issues. Even travelling to DC or Los 287 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,880 Angeles where ICE agents or just the governments heavily 288 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,760 involved, I was not in areas where I saw that prominently. 289 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,840 But after talking to a lot of the entertainers in the cities, 290 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,680 those things are existing. They're existing in smaller 291 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,600 communities outside of that city that are more vulnerable, easier 292 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,760 to target. And it's harder going to cities 293 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,440 like Minneapolis or I'd say even DC, where most of the 294 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,800 entertainers are people of colour and they have a different 295 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,680 experience where every weekend is going to be a different 296 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,520 weekend, whether they feel comfortable going out to the 297 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,040 shows or their fans feel comfortable going out to the 298 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,440 shows. And so they're trying to find 299 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,360 ways to reach those people that crave their artistry while still 300 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,880 making sure that they stay safe. And that's not something that 301 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,480 we're noticing right now in Denver. 302 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,480 It's been really rewarding to see how powerful, but also how 303 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,720 people are just kind of getting by with a smile. 304 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,320 Drag is so powerful, right? Like drag has such a role to 305 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,080 play in the queer community as a whole. 306 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,720 It's often drag performers. I hear people talk about kind of 307 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,800 often that some of their first experiences of seeing queer 308 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,960 people were seeing a fantastic drag performer. 309 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,400 So it feels like we need to do as much as possible to protect 310 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,840 and empower drag Queens, drag kings to continue to do that, 311 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:51,520 right? And is that your sense that the 312 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,560 community is behind you and kind of pushing for that, that 313 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,320 awareness? Yeah, I would say this year more 314 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,840 than ever, even while travelling, there's there's an 315 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,840 essence of people feeling the not scared to stay inside, but 316 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,640 really pushing themselves to go out and support queer venues and 317 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,640 queer artists. Because every weekend people, 318 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,079 venues are closing down, artists are not able to survive, 319 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,240 protesters are becoming prominent laws or shutting down 320 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,760 the ability to express ourselves. 321 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,440 So I do, I do believe that that is accurate. 322 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,359 I think people are finding ways to support artistry in some way 323 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,720 to keep it going. Yeah. 324 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,280 And I can't imagine it's easy. You know, you've been a full 325 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,440 time drag performer, if my research is correct for over 10 326 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:35,160 years and you stay consistently booked without a certain TV show 327 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:36,680 that we may have already mentioned a couple of times. 328 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,440 What do you think is the secret to that longevity and success? 329 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,040 And I guess also a secondary question that kind of what is 330 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,080 your relationship like with RuPaul's Drag Race and what that 331 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,080 is doing for the kind of the drag community? 332 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,240 So I, I'm going to kind of answer questions in reverse. 333 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,920 I think RuPaul's Drag Race, I will always give it the the 334 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,600 credit that it is due for pushing and projecting queer 335 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,280 voices and faces to the forefront, even bigger than 336 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,040 RuPaul, who runs the show. Sometimes people are able to 337 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,240 take this opportunity to be seen for their talents, their voices, 338 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,360 their, their, how they resonate with audiences in ways that have 339 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:17,080 never been happened before. Do I think as the show has 340 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,080 progressed, it has changed and altered what I remember it to be 341 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,480 when I'm watching season 6 or even if I go back to season 1-2 342 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,440 and three, I think that there's elements of that support the 343 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,960 local stop looking for what's going to hit hard on TV and 344 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,360 what's going to be supportive of the show. 345 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,480 I I think that some of my views on it has changed. 346 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:36,840 And so my relationship is positive. 347 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,920 I do the viewing parties. I have submitted auditions in 348 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,120 the past. I actively interact with some of 349 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:45,280 the drag race girls and, and everything like that. 350 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,280 But I think that there's a huge chunk of the heart that's 351 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,240 missing from what the purpose, what I think the purpose could 352 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:58,880 be for the show and I, I, yeah, I And so in reverse, being full 353 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,920 time for 10 of the 12 years or a little bit over 10 years, that 354 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,480 was a really difficult time. I started in 20, 16 when I 355 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,400 started hitting the ground running really hard. 356 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,400 I was working at a job. I walked in to set up. 357 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,240 I was a busser server. And after we finished the whole 358 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,120 restaurant setting up, they said hey, guess what, we're closed 359 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:17,400 down effective immediately. No more. 360 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,040 Take what you can, drink what you want, and then you're done 361 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,760 for the day. And that really hit because I 362 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,200 was struggling financially. I was barely able to afford 363 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,240 rent. I had no friends. 364 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,120 I was not out. I was closeted. 365 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,800 So it was just one thing after another. 366 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,760 And I took this opportunity when I got fired to really sit there 367 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:40,080 and say either I can, I can boohoo and not do anything about 368 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,320 it, or I can try to discover what being full time would look 369 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,560 like. Nobody was really doing that in 370 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,160 my scene. I, I'm not going to lie, I 371 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,680 humbly take credit for being the 1st at least in my Denver, Co 372 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,880 scene to being a full time entertainer outside of TV shows 373 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,960 and consistently dealing with venues and reputation and 374 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,880 consistency with shows. So the 10 years is because I 375 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,760 started so long ago, I, I. Put in the work and I've been 376 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,560 doing this type of schedule that you see this like 40 to 65 shows 377 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,040 a month since 2017. And I got a lot of shit for it. 378 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,760 I can, I swear I didn't ask that. 379 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,360 I got a lot of shit from it from 2017 to maybe 2020. 380 00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,480 And then post COVID when I tried to quit, I reformatted my 381 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,640 business and it came back stronger and more respected and 382 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,520 it became more respected by other artists. 383 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,520 And now we have so many full time artists in Colorado. 384 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,640 We have so many people that are striving to do full time 385 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,280 artistry. So the growing pains, like any 386 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,200 business sucked the first three years really sucked. 387 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,040 As you learn more about yourself, it becomes easier. 388 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,440 Consistency and just the repetition of it makes it really 389 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,960 like picking like ride a bike. Easy, easy, easy. 390 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,280 Yeah, and we actually kind of brushed over this, but actually 391 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,360 I'm super curious to get the kind of origin stories. 392 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,120 How did you get started in drag? When did you get started in 393 00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:59,360 Dragon? Kind of what was that kind of 394 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,400 early journey like for? You Yeah, I, I was interested in 395 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,000 drag, so I hated drag. I I always tell the story 396 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,600 because I think it's important. I distinctly remember calling it 397 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,160 gross and disgusting, and that's a lot of the insecurities that I 398 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,800 had, a lot of the uncertainties that I had with a gender 399 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,080 expression or things being OK or not OK or being interested but 400 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,240 not wanting people to know that I was interested in it. 401 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,720 I dated a boy who was super into drag and I wanted to support 402 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,520 him. So we went to a competition 403 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,160 about an hour away in Denver, and I watched the show. 404 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,400 I watched this queen. She was so beautiful. 405 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,160 I so immersed into it immediately. 406 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,720 She did this beautiful ballad and was singing all beautiful. 407 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,560 And then she started fingering herself on stage and I said, I 408 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,360 want to do that. I want to do that as soon as the 409 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:44,080 show was over. And I'm, you know, at that time 410 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:45,720 I was like, I only like the pretty Queens. 411 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,480 I don't like the scary Queens. I remember calling Nina Flowers 412 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,360 really scary at one point. And now it's like the opposite. 413 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,800 I think she's the most Immaculate being ever and all 414 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,800 the pretty girls can go go eat it. 415 00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:00,440 I don't care. But she but but we went to 416 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,880 Walmart afterwards, got a bra, he had some makeup. 417 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,360 I put on all of this stuff and it's like, wow, I love this 418 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:09,040 transformation. And he was like, you're an ugly 419 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,720 woman. You should never do drag again. 420 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,400 I feel great. I'm doing wonderful. 421 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,600 I think a month after we broke up, he got put in gaol for 422 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,000 embezzling. So I'm doing great. 423 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,480 I'm doing wonderful as an ugly woman, if he thinks that still. 424 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,840 But that was the first thing I tried it out that night. 425 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,040 My university had a drag show once a semester that I decided 426 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,280 to participate in. Even though I was terrified. 427 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,840 I got up on the stage. I had a local queen see me and 428 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,040 say, hey, do you want a chance at a local bar? 429 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,400 And I took it and that is where it started. 430 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,280 Started that one time to once a month, to once a weekend to 431 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,280 twice a weekend to every weekend, to now six days a week, 432 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,760 5 shows in a day. Sometimes it's it's crazy. 433 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,520 It's incredible and it's it's so. 434 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,400 What happened in like a week? That's 12 years of crazy. 435 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:04,280 So I mean, I just think it's so interesting how often you 436 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,760 mentioned someone kind of giving you that opportunity and kind of 437 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,000 bringing you along. We had L of a day also on the 438 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,120 podcast from UK, UK Ripples Drag Race and she had a similar 439 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,040 experience where it was someone kind of bringing them along on 440 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,520 that journey. And I guess that must be 441 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,360 something that you are now able to do. 442 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:23,720 And I guess if there's anyone listening to this podcast who 443 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,520 maybe wants to get involved in drag or just as super curious, 444 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,760 what a kind of advice and what do you do for younger people who 445 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,080 might be trying to get into drag? 446 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,520 You know, I've been really thinking about this a lot more 447 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,600 lately. I've had a lot of wonderful 448 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,080 close people to me that have never before been like, you 449 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,480 know, you have a lot of qualities whether people enjoy 450 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:41,480 them. But there's one thing that I 451 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,080 will always respect about you is that you make people feel seen. 452 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,840 You make people feel as though they are seen and what they do 453 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,480 online, even if you're present or not with a message, with a 454 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,960 voice memo. And I think that's because of 455 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,680 the experiences that I had. I felt seen in that performance. 456 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,280 I was offered an opportunity. I consistently, for at least the 457 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,640 last 10 years, have produced so many events and shows, given 458 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,440 hosting opportunities and nothing for nothing in return. 459 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,840 It's simply because I believe that I'm the Simon Cowell of 460 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:11,160 drag. In this community. 461 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,880 I can abolably look at somebody and see where your heart, your 462 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,920 craft and your your determination aligns together to 463 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,080 say you deserve this shot. I can see you doing bigger 464 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,640 things. You need someone to believe in 465 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,600 you. You need something to show you. 466 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,320 And that's just in my drag community. 467 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,520 That's artistry, that's go go's, that's dancers, that's anybody 468 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,920 that is doing what they love. I'm inspired by people at any 469 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,800 age doing what they love. When it comes to supporting like 470 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:42,080 a youth generation, I'm one of maybe 10 of many, many, many 471 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,160 artists in the scene and in in the state that actively provides 472 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,880 opportunities to queer youth. Finding ways to provide safe, 473 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,600 alcohol free, all ages, family friendly experiences for kids as 474 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,400 young as three years old to as old as you want to. 475 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,200 If you're a kid at heart, to get up on stage for the first time 476 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,800 and showcase what you've got, whether you're straight, trans, 477 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,240 gay, whatever you want to identify as. 478 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,480 So I feel like that is also put it planting seed and watering a 479 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,440 lot of these kids feelings that I had when I was younger of is 480 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,240 this OK? Am I able to do this? 481 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,640 And really allowing them to feel like you're in a room full of 482 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,720 support. Whether you are enjoying it, 483 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,720 whether you find out you enjoy it or not, whether this is for 484 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,360 you or not, experience it, love it, try it out. 485 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,040 I love that. And you mentioned obviously, you 486 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,560 know, alongside Jessica Lahore, you also created Miss Jessica, 487 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,800 which is your more PG, let's put it, drag persona who performs 488 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,600 for children and young people. That is so incredible and I'm so 489 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,360 interested to hear about it. How did that side of your drag 490 00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:48,200 come about? How does it differ from Jessica 491 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,520 Lahore? And what has it meant to you to 492 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,520 connect with kids and families through drag in that way? 493 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,720 You know, when people ask me this, I've been doing all ages 494 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,960 events since the very beginning. I've always had the business 495 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,080 mindset. If you need it done, I'll figure 496 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,280 out how to do it, and if I can't, then I'll refer you. 497 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,120 But you know, that's how you build your rapport of what 498 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,200 you're capable of doing. All ages, audiences, family 499 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,560 friendly shows where it hit harder. 500 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,320 In 2018 I went to a career day, different careers came into this 501 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,480 middle school and you talked about how literacy, education, 502 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,320 reading, writing impacted the career choice that you made. 503 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,360 It was not a show up and say you should be a drag queen or you 504 00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:33,880 should do this. I went in, I talked about how 505 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,400 going to college effectively helped me become a drag queen 506 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,280 and how I use the skills that I did with reading and writing and 507 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,720 how I use them today. I read a book on not bullying or 508 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,480 anti bullying to the kids, like a small passage from a book. 509 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,280 And then I did AQ and A and all of the Q&A stuff. 510 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,800 Were there questions and curiosities of how amazing and 511 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,400 magical I look and and what it's like and what it's like to be a 512 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,040 drag when people were curious? Well, that took off and became 513 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,280 international news within like within like a week, 2 parents 514 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,800 that had no kids at that school complained that I was there and 515 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,920 it went to Rush Limbaugh. It went to it literally went 516 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,240 international news. I got called an axe murderer by 517 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,560 Rush Limbaugh. It was really cool. 518 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,960 He compared me to that, but that kicked it off. 519 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,680 I had a choice in that moment to say, am I going to bow out 520 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,760 because everyone's so focused on this Lahore thing, this Jessica 521 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,880 Lahore thing, or am I going to figure it out? 522 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,320 So I created a whole different persona that is public, a public 523 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,360 page for Miss Jessica, Miss Jessica services on my website. 524 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,760 I do things with businesses and corporations as Miss Jessica 525 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,200 because HR is worried about the language or the the name. 526 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,800 I do drag story times, drag shows, inclusivity training. 527 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,120 I do GSA visits and it's just progressed since then. 528 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:51,560 I I've made it part of the business and more publicly to 529 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,760 combat a lot of people saying I shouldn't be doing this. 530 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,520 Yeah, I think it's amazing. I think it's so incredible. 531 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,160 I, I went to London Pride this year and they had kind of a 532 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,360 family section and it was amazing to see the joy that, 533 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,360 that young people get from drag performers. 534 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,520 And I think it gets such a, there's so much focus on it and 535 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:10,800 there's so many headlines around it. 536 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,120 But actually, if you look at the children, they are loving it. 537 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:15,800 They don't have that prejudice in them. 538 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:17,680 They are just loving the experience. 539 00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:20,520 Queens are fabulous and they just kind of love that. 540 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,800 And I guess that must be your experience and, and how does it 541 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,480 feel when you see kids and I I guess also parents, especially 542 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,400 given your kind of history with your own family, how does it 543 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,800 feel when you see those families really embracing what you're 544 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,480 doing? You know, I think that's, that's 545 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,480 the key. Most of my experiences, although 546 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,120 I enjoy watching how the kids are expressing themselves. 547 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,160 I've gotten more interactions with parents coming up to me 548 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,600 saying something's been off with my kid. 549 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,000 I we've tried talking to him. We're trying to be supportive, 550 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,200 but we we can't relate in the same ways. 551 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,680 When we come to this show, which happens once a month, they are 552 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,400 the most them most outgoing that they have ever been. 553 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,200 They're the most confident they have ever been. 554 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,080 And so when I hear that it feels as though parents are struggling 555 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,000 to find sometimes the right tools and words when they're not 556 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,120 queer on how to relate to their kids who might be experiencing 557 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,320 queer thoughts and putting them in the space that is a safe, 558 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,320 kind of like very comforting, welcoming space allows them to 559 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,400 feel like this is normal and this is OK. 560 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,120 And parents find it easier to relate with their kids. 561 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,040 And you know, for example, one of those kids in 2019 that I 562 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,480 that I Regina roars is her name. She's a young and she's still 563 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,920 doing drag and she's still supported by her parents years 564 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,600 years later. And you can just see a complete 565 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,280 shift from this person that wouldn't even say hi and 566 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,600 introduce themselves to this person that is literally now 567 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,200 bringing their sibling up with them to do a duet for a Pride 568 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,200 performance. And it's just really, really 569 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,480 cool. That's really cool. 570 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,320 Yeah, I love that. I love the phrase be the person 571 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,480 you needed when you were younger. 572 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,320 And it feels like you are being the person you needed when you 573 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:57,880 were younger. That person can show you that it 574 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,160 is OK. We forget that representation 575 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,160 matters in any way, shape or form. 576 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,840 The visibility, whether you have an interaction, seeing somebody 577 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:08,040 that exists like you is ridiculously powerful. 578 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,880 And when you see somebody that exists like you doing something 579 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,880 that you can see yourself doing, it's the most inspiring thing 580 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,400 that you're going to hold onto. It's like meeting your hero or 581 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,080 seeing your hero because you have the ability to take all 582 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,120 those inside thoughts and say, wow, someone else is expressing 583 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,480 the way I'm feeling. Yeah, yeah. 584 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,720 And Speaking of visibility, you have built a following of over 585 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:33,120 150,000 people on TikTok and Instagram, which is incredible. 586 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,520 And as listeners know, I launched this podcast with 600 587 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,040 followers on Instagram, so I knew it was going to be an 588 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,560 uphill battle to build that audience. 589 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,440 So for you, what's that process like of building that audience? 590 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,240 And what advice would you offer to queer creatives like me 591 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,240 trying to grow authentically online? 592 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,440 Gosh, nine years in or 10 years in. 593 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,920 I decided at 10 years that I was going to stop. 594 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,360 Not stop, but I was going to change my focus on where I was 595 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,920 going to invest my time and energy into my business. 596 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,120 And as I was trying to self manage, create my own 597 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:16,520 promotions, do my own tedious work, book my own shows, do 598 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,440 everything, everything, post online, I realised that my 599 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,800 strengths could lie in the business side and I needed to 600 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,160 seek out people that were Team Lahore. 601 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,440 Essentially, how can I find people that are experts at what 602 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,280 they do the same way that I'm an expert at what I do, that can 603 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,520 dedicate the time and energy to my voice and letting them know 604 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,800 and educate them on who my voice is, who the person I am, so they 605 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,640 can translate that to the public. 606 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,800 And so 10 years in, I decided to hire a marketing and social 607 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,160 media team, some Michael and Oscar from private 608 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,720 communications. They're phenomenal. 609 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,680 And we took about six months to learn, learn what that 610 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,800 relationship was going to look like, what worked and what 611 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,400 didn't work, how we're going to support each other. 612 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,800 And we've been going strong ever since. 613 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,520 So when I hired them on, I was at like maybe 1617 thousand 614 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,560 followers on Instagram, very few, maybe a little bit more on 615 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,160 TikTok. And after hiring them, not only 616 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,880 was I able to focus on content creating and the visions that I 617 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,440 had for putting content out and how I wanted it to be seen, I 618 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,800 had people that were professionals in editing, 619 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:25,480 lighting and sound and production to help put that out. 620 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,920 Learn the algorithms, which are impossible for me to learn. 621 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,040 They don't make any sense. So that was one thing. 622 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:37,080 It's kind of getting off of my getting my head out of my own 623 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,800 ass and saying I can't do it all. 624 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,000 Give up some control and some power and say, how do you find 625 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,360 people that you can work together? 626 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,560 That's how a company grows. And so now I have a publicist 627 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,520 and a merchandising manager and a social media marketing manager 628 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,080 and a personal assistant. And these people that I've built 629 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,040 relationships with help build Team LOR and that's helped with 630 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,320 following, helping understanding social media. 631 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,160 But the second thing that I'd say is you got to stop. 632 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,840 As hard as it is, numbers can't matter to you as an entrepreneur 633 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,000 in the social media world. They have to matter in terms of 634 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,000 milestones and making sure things are are being seen. 635 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,000 But you can't focus on how many views, how many likes, how many 636 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,760 impressions, how many re shares. For me, my social media is an 637 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,760 instant resume that anybody can go to. 638 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,880 You should take 10 seconds to scroll and see a variety of the 639 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,200 things that I can offer as an entrepreneur. 640 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,040 And I want that to be from the messy to the polished to the 641 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,960 podcasts to my fun little excursion videos to the 642 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,080 emotional and vulnerable to the reviews. 643 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,720 I want people to see that I have my hands in everything. 644 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,080 But the voice that's coming behind it is single streamline, 645 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,880 one human being that no matter what you're watching, you're 646 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,040 getting the same persona, the same person through all of it. 647 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,000 And I stopped worrying about the content. 648 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,720 I stopped worrying about, is this edited correctly or is 649 00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:58,320 this, you know, polished correctly? 650 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,160 You know, I'm so mindful. Don't put crap out. 651 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,280 But I am very intentional about what I put out just as much as 652 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,960 trying to remove that that obsession of what I'm putting 653 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,719 out. So I simultaneously work with my 654 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,960 team. I post and they post and you can 655 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,320 see tell which ones I post because I'm more anal and more 656 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,960 meticulous about everything. And you can see what they post 657 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,679 because it's fun and it's air free. 658 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,920 And I have a rule with them that they can post, you know, they we 659 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,760 approve all posts with me. But any performance videos, I 660 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,199 say just post. Don't even let me see it because 661 00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:35,320 I'll tell you not to because I'm so self critical of my work that 662 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,239 I don't want people to see it. And then it posts and people 663 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:39,639 love it. And of course, people are going 664 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:42,239 to be critical, but you have to get your mindset out of 665 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,600 everyone's going to judge or hate, not what you like, but 666 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,880 you're going to impact some amazing people with what you're 667 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,800 doing. Yeah, I think that's incredible. 668 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,920 And as a marketing professional, I can tell you all that was a 669 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,840 branding and marketing master class you all just got because 670 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,440 that consistency is incredibly incredible. 671 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,360 For one, we've kind of, there's been a thread that's come 672 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,120 through this, which is around drag and the fact that it has 673 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,680 kind of been, it's always been political, whether it wanted to 674 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,440 be or not. Do you see your work as activism 675 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,120 activism, or do you prefer to frame it as pure art and 676 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,160 entertainment? Kind of What's your relationship 677 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,800 like with drag from that perspective? 678 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,040 It's a yes and and I've been questioning this a lot more this 679 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,880 year. I, I have been very humbled in, 680 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,000 in called out indirectly, indirectly about having a 681 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,560 platform that I do and how I'm using it to project issues that 682 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,760 are happening across the world, happening in the US, happening 683 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,840 locally in my own scene. And although I, I could have in 684 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,040 that moment argued, oh, I'm doing this, this and that. 685 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,920 Obviously the people that are expressing this are not seeing 686 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,320 the right things for me. So again, it's taking your head 687 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,360 out of your ass for a little bit and just saying, OK, what can I 688 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,680 do more? And I do focus on the escape. 689 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,640 I'm not going to lie when I when I look at myself and my 690 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,560 influence as an artist, I have gotten more messages about thank 691 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,080 you for clearing my timeline. My feet up of so much horror, so 692 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,520 much tragedy, so much anger, so much sadness, so much heartache, 693 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,480 so much, you know, weight on my shoulders with a funny any video 694 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,920 of you eating sausages or a video of you doing makeup or you 695 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,400 have video talking about how you're dealing with things that 696 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,520 are happening in the world. So what I've been doing 697 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,120 recently, probably in the last two months with my team is 698 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:29,320 finding a balance of how can I show my my political sides and 699 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,240 how I can be supportive of the communities that I am more than 700 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:36,600 I have been and more prominently vocal about it while also 701 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,480 honouring that I am for a lot of people that escape from reality 702 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:43,520 that that escape of that there's goodness and there's fun and 703 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,520 there's laughter till to still to exist. 704 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,760 And that's even at my shows, finding a moment in the show to 705 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,360 talk about what's happening in the world in a way that's 706 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,920 engaging while then saying, all right, now we can get back to 707 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,000 some fun, but you need to know what's going on. 708 00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,280 Do I have a strong answer for you about what things I'm doing 709 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,720 outside of sharing Gofundmes, donating tips, lift uplifting 710 00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:08,160 certain communities in my my own community to have those voices 711 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,320 re sharing and reposting? No because I feel like on some 712 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:16,080 topics my my opinion on it isn't the point. 713 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:21,360 My my right or wrong approach is is the point. 714 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,520 This is wrong period. Not This is why I think it's 715 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,560 wrong. Trying people's teams don't need 716 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,200 to hear your reasons, they don't even care. 717 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,520 But verbally saying this is what I think and this is how I feel 718 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,960 reassures people that I'm a safe space. 719 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,160 Yeah, I love that. Let's we started this 720 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,880 conversation talking about young Jessica. 721 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,960 Let's revisit them. Because if you could give your 722 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,080 younger self one piece of advice, what would it be? 723 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,320 And would it be different if I said, what advice would you just 724 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,800 give to a young LGBTQ person today in 2025? 725 00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:00,480 Quid drag. No, I'm joking. 726 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:03,560 Quid drag. Don't do it. 727 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,280 If I could give, I'm gonna do both because that's, that's how 728 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,720 crazy I am. If I were to give myself advice 729 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,440 as a younger queer person, it would be to come out earlier. 730 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,120 I came out of 23. I wish I would have come out at 731 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,160 16. That's easily 8 year, Nine years 732 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,720 of work that I could have avoided, 9 years of trauma, 9 733 00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:23,520 years of therapy. I could have gotten into 734 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,040 discovering. So I feel a decade behind my 735 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,120 queer colleagues that have been out at that age. 736 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,920 I feel like I'm now as a 32 year old entering my 21 to 23 year 737 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,680 old queer self because of the the where I'm placed at. 738 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,640 So if I could say anything, come out sooner to my younger self. 739 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,200 Come out sooner and work on loving yourself a little bit 740 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,520 harder. It's it's easier said than done, 741 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,880 but to this day, find ways to embrace the person that you are, 742 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,280 the voice that you have, the skin that you are in the flaws 743 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,120 that you see. Embrace them, don't make fun of 744 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,520 them, don't mock them, don't try to change them. 745 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,520 Try to grow with them. And, and that'll be really 746 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,080 great. And I guess that could apply to 747 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:08,880 any queer person, any queer youth. 748 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,120 But my, I'm going to steal this from a queen in Denver. 749 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,960 Her name is Shirley Delta Blow. If I could say anything to queer 750 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,240 people as a whole, it's it's really showing up exactly who 751 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,840 you are and finding the people that embrace how you show up and 752 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,440 don't criticise the way that you show up. 753 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,800 She says it very fluidly, but if you walk into a room and you are 754 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,000 authentically yourself, weirdly, when those people in the room 755 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,880 see you being yourself, you're giving them permission to be 756 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,560 themselves. So easier said than done, but 757 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,320 learn it earlier. If you're allowed person, be 758 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,560 allowed person. If you have no patience for 759 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:45,960 certain things, then have no patience. 760 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,680 If you don't let whatever just be that human and naturally the 761 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,120 universal will gravitate those those people to your circle. 762 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,440 People will resonate with you. Yeah, I love that so much. 763 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,240 I think it's incredible. And we will include links to all 764 00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:04,000 your incredible social accounts to your website in the showness 765 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,040 of this podcast. People should check you out if 766 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:07,640 they haven't already. It's incredible. 767 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,480 I love all your content. But most of all, and I said it a 768 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,000 little bit earlier on. I do love the phrase and I kind 769 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,640 of try and live by the phrase, be the person you needed when 770 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:18,680 you were younger. And I think that's kind of what 771 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,000 I'm taking away from this conversation we've had from kind 772 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,600 of your childhood to where you are today. 773 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,560 I do genuinely believe you are being the person that you 774 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,880 needed, but also the person that so many of us needed when we 775 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,600 were younger. So thank you so much for 776 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,600 everything you do for the drag community and for the entire 777 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,960 LGBTQ plus community. Thanks. 778 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,720 I appreciate the acknowledgement and I I don't do it for to hear 779 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:43,440 that. And it's also really rewarding 780 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,120 when people acknowledge that. So thank you with every word. 781 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:54,040 Our lives together. We