1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,800 Speaking of of counties, what what is happening? 2 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:05,160 I'm not doing anything but the FBI went in because it's been 3 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:11,080 under, under I guess review for years. 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,120 The cheating that took place in Fulton County and in that nobody 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:16,800 knows what's in the warrant, what you're going to find 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,720 outlook. Why would anybody be upset that 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,640 they went in and they they got the ballots, I guess, right. 8 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:26,680 Again, they did this that's been under review and under 9 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:31,280 investigation for four years and now they they got a court order. 10 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,680 You know, they got a court order signed by nobody knows what a 11 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,880 respected but liberal judge signed a court order allowing 12 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,640 them to go and pick them up. Well, you're going to know what 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:42,800 the ballot's safe because they're right now inspecting the 14 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,000 ballot. I'm not involved in it, but they 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,040 are inspecting and checking the ballot. 16 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,360 Why is Tulsi Gabbard there? I don't know, but you know. 17 00:01:20,490 --> 00:01:21,730 Welcome back to posting through it. 18 00:01:21,730 --> 00:01:23,370 I'm Cherid. And I'm Mike. 19 00:01:23,890 --> 00:01:27,170 So to start off, we have Patreon shout outs. 20 00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:29,770 We got Russell, Craig, Liz Murray. 21 00:01:30,290 --> 00:01:33,690 Anybody else on Missing Jared? I think that's what we've got in 22 00:01:33,690 --> 00:01:37,040 the Platinum tier, which gets a shout out. 23 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,000 But for everyone else, you can go to our Patreon, $5 a month. 24 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,560 You get access to weekly bonus episodes, including the last one 25 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,240 where we talked all about the Turning Point USA Alternative 26 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,960 Halftime Show. There may have been some country 27 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,600 music renditions that occurred in that episode, but you'll have 28 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,920 to go there to check it out. We've got some more listener 29 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,200 music to feature this week, but I forgot to shout out on the mic 30 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,280 what we used during last week's Steven Crowder episode. 31 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:10,160 That was a track called Snow by Triage, so thanks to Chris for 32 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,000 sending that one to us. There's a link to that track in 33 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,040 the description of that episode, but I also wanted to make sure I 34 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,040 set it on the mic. This week we've got transition 35 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:20,840 music courtesy of another listener. 36 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,200 Chris Mason listens to Posting Through It, but he's also the 37 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,720 lyricist in a band called Faulty Cognitions out of San Antonio, 38 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,600 TX. He shared their sophomore album. 39 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,760 Describe Their sound to me as quote, jangly anti fascist 40 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,880 melodic punk. The album's called They Promised 41 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,920 Us Heaven, and I was really into it. 42 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,320 This episode's transition music comes from the fifth track on 43 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,760 that record. It's called Don't Let Them See 44 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,040 You Suffer. There's a link to their band 45 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,200 camp page in the episode description. 46 00:03:02,350 --> 00:03:07,150 So last month, on January 28th, the FBI conducted a raid on an 47 00:03:07,150 --> 00:03:10,310 elections office in Fulton County, Georgia. 48 00:03:10,710 --> 00:03:14,750 It's near Atlanta. They seized more than 700 boxes 49 00:03:14,750 --> 00:03:18,150 of ballots and other election materials on site when it 50 00:03:18,150 --> 00:03:21,080 happened. There's a face that seemed to 51 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,640 surprise a lot of people. That's Tulsi Gabbard. 52 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:28,840 She once represented Hawaii in the House of Representatives as 53 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,000 a Democrat before pivoting to becoming a MAGA movement 54 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,080 supporter and celebrity, I should say, and a leading role 55 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,200 as Trump's director of national intelligence. 56 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,600 News of the raid triggered an alarm in a lot of people, 57 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,280 including ourselves, who are feeling people who are feeling a 58 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,080 little nervous about what the Trump administration might do 59 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,840 when it comes to undermining the vote in the 2026 midterms and 60 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,360 the 2028 general election. People will likely remember that 61 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,200 in 2020, Trump and his political allies focused heavily on trying 62 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,320 to undermine the vote in Georgia, where Trump lost to Joe 63 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,600 Biden by about 12,000 votes. Trump famously called Georgia's 64 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,920 Secretary of State that year and pressured him to, quote, find 65 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,079 enough votes for him to win the state. 66 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,920 He was charged with that in 2023. 67 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,160 But the prosecution in that case was really miss messy, and it 68 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,160 got even messier after Trump won. 69 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,000 The case was dropped in its entirety late last year. 70 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,840 Georgia has been at the epicenter of all kinds of legal 71 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:36,040 efforts, partisan media propaganda, and straight up 72 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,640 conspiracy theories attacking the legitimacy of voting in the 73 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,360 southern state with the goal of finding some kind of story arc 74 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,880 from 2020 and after where Trump actually won the state. 75 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,120 Well, Jared, it's important to emphasize here at this point 76 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:57,600 that Fulton County according to 2020 census results is majority 77 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,080 non white. So that is a pretty big data 78 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,880 point. About 45% of the people who live 79 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,720 there are black compared to about 44% who are white. 80 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,880 It also has the highest population of any county in 81 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,840 Georgia. We've historically seen election 82 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:16,400 denialist fixate on places where large minority and immigrant 83 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,800 populations exist like in Detroit and Philadelphia. 84 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,760 And this goes back of course to the 2016 campaign and Rodger 85 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:29,720 Stone, when the first Stop the Steal campaign really took off. 86 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,280 So since Trump took office for a second term, we've seen the 87 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:37,040 administration to vote a lot of resources and energy toward 88 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,400 tracing down the boogeyman that have haunted them for the last 89 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,560 decade. They're supposedly investigating 90 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,280 Antifa. They're manifesting their most 91 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:49,320 Craven wet dreams about brutalizing immigrants. 92 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,360 And now, it seems they're also revisiting the 2020 election 93 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,600 again, in hopes that maybe this time they'll find some sort of 94 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,200 smoking gun. So if news of this raid in 95 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,840 Georgia set off the alarm bells in your head, you are not alone. 96 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,960 It comes at a time when Trump has openly mused about wanting 97 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:13,480 to, quote, nationalize elections, eliminating mail in 98 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,360 voting and ordering ICE agents to surround the polls. 99 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,680 Today, we're going back, going to look back on what we've 100 00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:26,760 learned about that raid since it happened and try to explain what 101 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,000 exactly is happening in general with this threat to democracy. 102 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,200 This is a particularly important ahead of this year's midterms. 103 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,960 Today, we're joined by Hunter Walker. 104 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,120 He's an investigative reporter for Talking Points Memo who's 105 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,000 been following this story closely. 106 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,960 Aside from Talking Points Memo, you may have read the stories 107 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,120 and publications like The New Yorker, Rolling Stone, New York 108 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,320 Magazine, among others. We'll put some links to some of 109 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,320 his stories about this raid in Georgia in the description of 110 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,800 this episode. And with that, Hunter, what's up 111 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,760 man? Thanks for taking some time and 112 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,040 joining. Posting through it this week. 113 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,560 You know, I know, I know, this May or later, but let me just 114 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,680 say, happy Friday the 13th to you all. 115 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:07,680 As if it couldn't get any weirder. 116 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:10,160 Yeah, I mean, I didn't even realize it was Friday the 13th, 117 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,120 but that makes sense, yeah. It's always Friday the 13th now, 118 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,000 Mike. Yeah, Valentine's Day, which is 119 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,840 also an underrated, you know, subject matter for for horror 120 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,000 movies, by the way. So I guess First off, just how 121 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:25,600 are you doing, Hunter? I mean, you've been following 122 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:28,120 politics real close. I mean, he used to be a White 123 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,840 House correspondent and everything. 124 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,800 You've been with us staring into the void for a while. 125 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,160 Also, do you listen to Techno? That's an important question for 126 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,960 this podcast. So, you know, I'm doing good, 127 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,600 man. I'm I'm, you know, coming to you 128 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,400 live from from ice planet Brooklyn. 129 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,840 You know, that's really been quite a demoralizing slog. 130 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:53,520 And you know, I do think that like as the news and and the 131 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,440 political environment is so intense, you know, the, the 132 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:04,040 entire city freezing over for a month with black sludge snow was 133 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,600 sort of insult to injury. But you know, I'm, I'm doing 134 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,920 good. And, and as far as music, you 135 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,480 know, it's, it's interesting because I have found in the past 136 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:15,920 couple of years, I really do feel like it's sort of 137 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:17,440 influenced by how crazy things are. 138 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,720 I'm just like listening to stuff that's like more out there than 139 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,000 ever. So I feel like if you ask me 140 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,640 that question a couple of years ago, I was sort of a very like 141 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,560 hip hop and classic rock and like reggae purist. 142 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,039 But I'm trying to listen to like the weirdest electronic and like 143 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:36,280 metal and punk I can find these days. 144 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,679 I, I don't know, I'm actually not well versed in any of it 145 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,080 enough to know what counts as techno, but like, yeah, I'm, 146 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:45,680 I'm, I'm plugged in, man. Don't, I don't want to take this 147 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:48,200 whole thing off the rail, so I'm not going to really get into it. 148 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,120 I will. All I'm saying, all I'll say is 149 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,920 that you get as a guest, get free access to our premium and 150 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,160 we do album racks at the end of everyone. 151 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,360 So when it comes to obscure techno, that's usually my my 152 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,680 problem. To handle well, I'll I'll throw 153 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:03,600 a couple in there. The things that things that are 154 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,920 like on repeat for me, like endlessly right now. 155 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:10,120 I'm I'm, you know, I'm really trying to like support indie 156 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:14,600 artists on band camp and I'm really into like techno cumbia, 157 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,120 if you will. One of my big favorites is 158 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,760 Amante Stealth Futuro. I really people should 159 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,000 definitely listen to those albums. 160 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,800 And also there's this group I found right now called a 161 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,080 Mokotron and they are Myori base guys. 162 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,080 So it's like coming out of New Zealand and it's like really 163 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,520 hardcore base with like dope tribal influences. 164 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:37,400 I'm I'm. I'm digging that quite a bit. 165 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,840 I like that idea. So, Hunter, what were your just 166 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,720 kind of first thoughts when you saw the news about this raid in 167 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,200 Fulton County? Because I know when I saw it, it 168 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,480 took me a minute to process it of just like, you know, because 169 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,120 I've heard people in the elections, nihilist space 170 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,000 fantasizing about doing this kind of shit for so long. 171 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,520 And there it is. It's happening. 172 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,760 And Tulsi Gabbard is there for some reason. 173 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,960 Yeah, I mean, I I would say my reaction was exactly what you 174 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,520 just said. Like not to not to speak in 175 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,280 millennial, but y'all know the the Ron Paul GIF right? 176 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,120 It's happening. It's happening right? 177 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,640 Like, like they have been telling us they are going to do 178 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,880 something like this for, you know, as I think you guys were 179 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,560 alluding to earlier, really, really 10 years now. 180 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,760 You know, I think people forget that Stop the Steal, actually 181 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,400 something that began with Roger Stone in 2015, OK? 182 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:38,360 He set up the website for it. He was preparing this strategy 183 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,040 in the event Trump lost, right? You know, in that golden 184 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,480 escalator era, right? And they ultimately mothballed 185 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,680 it because they didn't lose in 2016. 186 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,640 And part of the whole thing is to to not complain about the 187 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:53,480 elections where they lose. That's that's where they really 188 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,000 start to give up the game a little bit. 189 00:10:55,320 --> 00:11:02,200 But, you know, this movement to essentially fight any Trump or 190 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,640 Republican loss is, is a decade old now. 191 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,720 And it's only been growing. And what we've seen in this 192 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,840 current iteration of it is that through the last presidential 193 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,040 campaign and into the Trump administration, they really got 194 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,880 an official arm to the election denialism movement with people 195 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,360 specifically in Georgia taking over state election boards. 196 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,480 And now, of course, with, you know, the conspiracy theorists, 197 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,200 the call moving inside the White House, if you will, you know, 198 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,160 with these folks taking power in government. 199 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,120 So, you know, I don't want to say I fully predicted this 200 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,880 because it was it was, it was very outlandish and excessive. 201 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:47,080 But but, you know, I personally have been covering this movement 202 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,480 in all its many facets for a while, and I've been expecting 203 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,440 attacks on our elections. This whole back and forth that 204 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,240 is going on since the very beginnings of Trump's political 205 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,640 career, which has been like, sort of like where people like, 206 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,280 this is this looks like fascism, this is fascism. 207 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,160 And then people be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, that's not 208 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,840 what it is. And then, you know, just you got 209 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,560 to use the right terms and you got to, you know, you have to 210 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:14,880 lay back. And then and then they'll be 211 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,360 like, oh, I'm going to do this thing. 212 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,440 And then you'll be like, Oh my God, they're, you know, they're 213 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,400 just an authoritarian takeover. And then if you're, you're stop 214 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,720 screeching, this is so hyperbolic, then the Trump 215 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,080 administration will do the thing, right? 216 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,400 Like quite literally in front of you, right. 217 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,800 And it feels like it's just been that going further and further 218 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:38,080 until this moment that we're in now where they do actually have 219 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:43,080 a considerable amount of power over elections, partly because 220 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,920 of changeover that existed from the first time they were in 221 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,480 power. And also just radicalization of 222 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,520 rubble, Republican officials, right, who have just sort of 223 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,600 been in this shit, you know, ingesting this stuff for a 224 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,760 while. If you could give us some, some 225 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,560 just some background on Georgia. Why did this become the 226 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,080 epicenter? Because like for me, for me, 227 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,120 like just just not digging into it as deeply as you. 228 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,800 For me, I think it was just they were so pissed off and so 229 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,600 shocked that Biden won in 2020. And I remember the other side of 230 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,640 that where people were sharing these memes of like, you know, 231 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,440 like leftists were sharing these memes of like Pepe the frog over 232 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,200 the Georgia thing, except it's blue. 233 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:22,920 Like doing the chin stroking thing. 234 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,840 Like like, oh, looks like he didn't count on this type thing. 235 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,520 It was it, Was it just shock or is there something else? 236 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,320 There's a lot to unpack there and I actually before we get 237 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:39,360 into Georgia and how it has been a focus of the election 238 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:44,640 denialism, stop the steel movement, I want to really hone 239 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,720 in on home in on something you said there because I think it's 240 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,240 really important. You know, you were essentially 241 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,160 touching on this, I would say almost institutional 242 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,520 conventional wisdom, disbelief around Trump, right, where he 243 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,640 says what he's going to do. He does the thing and, and very 244 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,400 smart, powerful people in politics and media sort of 245 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,840 continually are surprised by it, right? 246 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,400 And, you know, I would go back to 2015. 247 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,880 I, you know, I, I talked to Trump a lot during that, during 248 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,240 that campaign. And one of the moments where I 249 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,880 spoke to him, I went up to the Trump Tower and interviewed him 250 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,880 and it was clear to me what he was signaling towards, right? 251 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:30,760 And so I focused in on immigration and focused in on 252 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,000 treatment of minorities at the time. 253 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,800 I sort of looked at Muslims. I mean, I mean, I think, you 254 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,280 know, Latinos have have obviously become the the main 255 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,480 target of the president's ire. But I said, you know, would you 256 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,960 consider registering people or putting them in a database? 257 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,880 And he said absolutely. He said we have to go beyond 258 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,240 databases. And I printed it this and it was 259 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,400 it was a firestorm. And it was a firestorm in part 260 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,000 because what he said sounded extreme. 261 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,920 You know, we were clearly talking about sort of ethnic 262 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,400 detention and profiling, right? But it was also a firestorm 263 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,000 because people were like, oh, did he really say that to the 264 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,880 point that like Rush Limbaugh did a whole segment saying that 265 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,680 I made the thing up. Rachel Maddow had to put my 266 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,160 audio on air because, yeah, he actually said it, right. 267 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,440 And then ultimately he did indeed go, as he said, beyond 268 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:22,360 databases. You know, in turn one, we saw 269 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,480 the Muslim ban, which which was, you know, a very specific list 270 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,000 of, of Muslim countries on his, his ICE policies at this point 271 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,480 have gone so far beyond registries and databases. 272 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,680 I mean, we're we're we're deep into facial recognition and and 273 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:39,280 mass camp infrastructure, right? So, you know, Trump has 274 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:44,120 continually said what he is going to do, and that included 275 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,040 all of these efforts to target the elections. 276 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,440 You know, back in 20/15/16, he, he, he was not committing to 277 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,040 accepting a loss. Again, we didn't have to see 278 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,880 what Stop the Steal would have looked like in early 2017, but 279 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,880 we did see it four years later. And he, you know, said we're 280 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,720 going to fight. And then he sent those people to 281 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,480 fight. You know, I was standing there 282 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:09,680 as it happened and, you know, personally, I'm very adamant 283 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,880 right now. And I, and I do try to be, you 284 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,520 know, TPM is obviously a progressive site, but I try to 285 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,720 really take an objective focus in parks. 286 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,600 I feel like a lot of people are having a problem being objective 287 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,520 right now. And what I mean is, you know, 288 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:28,160 fascism, authoritarianism, these are technical academic terms, 289 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,200 and that's what we're dealing with now, right? 290 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,280 And, and one of the characteristics of that is a 291 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,280 lack of free and fair elections or efforts by the leader to 292 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,600 challenge those. So I think that's really 293 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,040 important that I'm sorry to sort of begin with a tangent, but I 294 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,720 think that's the context we're operating in. 295 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,280 Yeah, I, I, I often say this sometimes to, to my peers and 296 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,400 colleagues when, you know, when they pick up a story and things 297 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,520 like that, I always say like whatever it is. 298 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:54,960 I mean, I, I understand that substax. 299 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,080 We're, we, we've all been, you know, a lot of people are 300 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,680 getting kind of siloed into opinion writing with journalism 301 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,720 because of the nature of what's happened to our field. 302 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,960 But I said, when in doubt, you know, do it the old way, right? 303 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,319 Do it, do it the old way with the three sides and everything 304 00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,359 else, right? To, to do it because it will 305 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,200 ultimately hit them a lot harder. 306 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,119 And it's a lot you're you're you're you're skimming a lot 307 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,960 closer to the truth that way. Yeah. 308 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,760 And and and the and the truth is a lot where, you know, a lot 309 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,200 hits a lot harder. I think that just saying like 310 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,640 pointing and saying fascist. We're we're, we're also 311 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,640 operating in a world where I know you guys have dealt very 312 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,400 deeply into this, where where folks like Barry Weiss are 313 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,680 saying, you know, I'm the only honest, objective one while 314 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,400 obviously peddling ideology. Honestly podcast. 315 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,520 Right. Like like literally declaring 316 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,160 herself as the only quote UN quote Free Press, right, while 317 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,880 she's basically very much, you know, having a clear bias and, 318 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,400 and those are the people who would say it's unacceptable to 319 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,880 call this authoritarian. And, and I I just will not play 320 00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,760 that game. You know, one thing that I love 321 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,280 about being a Talking Points Memo is I think Josh Marshall in 322 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,160 our site has for years been early in covering the 323 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,520 radicalization of the GOP because this didn't just begin 324 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,560 with Trump. He was operating in an 325 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:17,320 ecosystem, you know, where there were militias, there was racism 326 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,600 that was like really allowed to take root. 327 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,720 And he's just taking advantage of these existing structures. 328 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,520 So, So the bottom line is, you know, what we are seeing is an 329 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:31,880 authoritarian push to keep the party in power. 330 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,200 That's what this is. And and it is focused intently 331 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,440 on Georgia. But I think I want to be clear 332 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,080 that it it, it's not just about Georgia. 333 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:45,280 This is very much sort of the Steve Bannon throw shit at the 334 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,600 wall type model, right? And, and essentially, you know, 335 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,560 I, I think I began this by saying we've, we've been living 336 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,560 and stopped the steel for 10 years now. 337 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,240 And, and what stopped the steel has been, is a movement with 338 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:05,160 propaganda components, you know, media arm, a paramilitary 339 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,560 component. Your groups like the Oath 340 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,600 Keepers, the, the Proud Boys, you know, have been involved in 341 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,880 this. Now there is there's always been 342 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,120 a political arm with, you know, the 147 Republicans who, who, 343 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,080 who tried to overturn the 2020 election. 344 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:23,120 And now you're seeing this sort of official arm that they, you 345 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,240 know, have the reins of government once again. 346 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:33,440 And they've always had these multiple units kind of working 347 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,400 multiple strategies at once just to see what would work with 348 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,840 January 6th, we saw the alternate electors going at the 349 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,960 same time. We saw the crowd going into the 350 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,240 capital. We saw the 147 Republicans on 351 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,760 the House floor. So Georgia is just one component 352 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,680 of this, but it's always been a really key 1. 353 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,280 And I think part of that is because they have people in the 354 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,680 legislature and, and in the election boards were willing to 355 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,600 work with them. And another part of that is 356 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,280 there's a little bit of a psychological thing. 357 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,760 There were, of course, Georgia was the final call in 2021. 358 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,600 So that's always sort of stuck in in in Donald Trump's craw. 359 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,920 Let's take a closer look at this rate in Fulton County, 360 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,240 specifically as a way of understanding maybe sort of the 361 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,040 bigger picture. You've done some reporting about 362 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,240 how this raid came into existence to begin with. 363 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,080 What are the stories you have? A Talking Points Memo points to 364 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,480 a report that a group called the Election Oversight Group put out 365 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,080 on January 6th this year. Great choice of date. 366 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,800 Tell us about that group and and what what was up with that 367 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:38,800 report? Yeah. 368 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,360 So you know, essentially this report came out and and you 369 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:46,240 know, you had the raid on Fulton County about 3 weeks later. 370 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,000 And the title of this report was Fulton County Report of 371 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,320 Investigation of the 2020 General election. 372 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:57,400 And what you have is a 263 page document that largely just 373 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:04,440 rehashed various debunked, irrelevant allegations about how 374 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,440 how the vote was collected in Fulton County. 375 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,280 But yet this group, you know, the report clearly preceded the 376 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,800 raid. And this group was referenced in 377 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,720 the FBI affidavit that was used to obtain the search warrant. 378 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,760 So it was clearly influential and and what I would say before 379 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,480 we even dig more into what happened in Fulton County, you 380 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,320 know, election oversight group 2 key executives in it are these 381 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,400 guys David Cross and Kevin Monclaw. 382 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:34,200 I think Monclaw is largely being credited as the key author of 383 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,120 this report. But they previously worked on 384 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,640 this document that that Trump allies were calling the nuclear 385 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,160 doc that Trump's legal team brought up where they were 386 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,960 trying to sort of make their beefs about Georgia part of his 387 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,640 defense in the indictment against him in that state. 388 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,800 So their work has clearly reached Trump's desk. 389 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,640 It has been used by his team. Another key figure in that was 390 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,800 Liz Harrington. She was the spokeswoman for his 391 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:06,240 campaign in 2024 who, you know, even the the major papers were 392 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,920 reporting was a controversial figure in his orbit for kind of 393 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,040 bringing these conspiracies onto his desk. 394 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,400 And we've seen a social media back loop, including just before 395 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,280 this raid where Trump was on Truth Social blasting out 396 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,320 Harrington, referring to stuff from this report, which wasn't 397 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,840 even public at the time. So it's really clear that this 398 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,760 report made its way to Trump's team and it ultimately basically 399 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,600 turned into a search warrant. And Moncla has admitted he 400 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,480 wouldn't talk to me. He's not responded to any of my 401 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,320 requests for comment. But but he did admit that he has 402 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,840 communicated with, he said AUS attorney prior to the raid 403 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,800 happening. So, so you have this group of 404 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,880 election denialists who were directly influencing and and 405 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,560 almost directing the FBI in this matter. 406 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,400 Yeah, the affidavit for the raid was unsealed last week and it 407 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,400 had, like you said, a bunch of claims in it that including a 408 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,760 lot that had been investigated and law enforcement was like 409 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,640 nothing there and kind of left it alone, right. 410 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,440 It's it truly is just like a rehash. 411 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:16,360 It's like a now that's what I call the election was fake album 412 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:19,400 volume. Whatever we're on now, they seem 413 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,400 to hand most of the credit to this guy named Kurt Olson, who's 414 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,160 identified an affidavit as the presidentially appointed 415 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,400 director of election security and integrity. 416 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,400 What can you tell us about this guy? 417 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,200 Because he's kind of a character, right? 418 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,960 You know, so Kurt Olson is now identified as a special 419 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,680 government employee. That's the same designation that 420 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,360 it had Elon Musk had and it allows you to to work in the 421 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,120 executive branch for it's 130 days. 422 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:50,600 I think he his term has concluded. 423 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,240 But but he's the one who clearly made the referral or the Fulton 424 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,440 County raid. And, and Kurt Olson is an 425 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,760 attorney who's been a long time figure in this stop the steal 426 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,480 election denial universe. He, he, he represented Carrie 427 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,400 Lake, the, the candidate Arizona as she sought to challenge her 428 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,920 own losses in that state. It was, it was a total failure. 429 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,960 I mean it, I think, you know, one thing to mention is that all 430 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,320 of these allegations, whether it be Carrie Lake's, whether it be 431 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,320 Trump's, you know, they have been so thoroughly litigated 432 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,920 and, and, and their record of losses as I think you know, 433 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:34,160 nearly nearly 100%. So, you know, he's, he's been in 434 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,880 this universe and, and so has the election oversight group. 435 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,040 I mean, there's, there's a byline, you know, in addition to 436 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,000 Kevin Monclaw and and David Cross, folks like Joseph Rossi, 437 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:47,800 Garland Favarito, you know, these people have been working 438 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,800 together for a long time. And, and if you as, as I know 439 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,880 you guys always do kind of dive into the social media pages and 440 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,760 what have you. These guys are all on streams 441 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,040 together with folks like Mike Lindell to my Pillow Guy and 442 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,560 David Clements. And then there's there's various 443 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,760 organizations and crowdfunding campaigns backing their work. 444 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,120 So, so, you know, I think Kurt Olson is one of two examples we 445 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,960 have in this report of someone who has kind of come out of that 446 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,840 web of grassroots organizations and legal disputes and has now 447 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,160 actually been brought into the government and we are seeing 448 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:26,000 whatever shadowy work product he's producing turn into FBI law 449 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,600 enforcement action. You also did some reporting on a 450 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,920 guy named Clay Parikh. Is that how you say it? 451 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,520 I don't think many of our listeners will know that name. 452 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,800 I know I certainly didn't. But Hugh actually spoke to him. 453 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,480 I love your story where he's like I, I have no comments on 454 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,200 the matter. And then proceeds to talk to you 455 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,240 for two hours. People need to read Hunter's 456 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,760 reporting for multiple reasons. He's a pro for one reason. 457 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,560 Another thing is he's introducing characters now that 458 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,240 you'll be talking about in like a year or so. 459 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,160 It's like, remember when the when the Kraken was like 460 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,640 everybody's talking about the Kraken? 461 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,640 You can get introduced to some of these type of characters 462 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,120 before they become memes. Yeah. 463 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:13,800 So this guy, this guy, this guy Clay, what, what's his role in 464 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,760 this and, and what can you tell us about him? 465 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,120 This guy, Clay man, he's a guy also. 466 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,640 Let's start there. He, he, he is a very specific 467 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,760 type of guy. And he is the second person who 468 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,400 who was identified in this affidavit as a special 469 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,320 government employee in the executive branch. 470 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,120 And, you know, I should say I've reached out to the White House 471 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,160 to ask about that. As of right now, they have not 472 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,160 responded at all. And tell me about Clay Parique 473 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,680 or his work. But what we see in the affidavit 474 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,040 is that basically someone from the election oversight group, an 475 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,000 unnamed witness, it it certainly sounds a lot like Kevin 476 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,400 Montclass, someone who helped author this report, asked Clay 477 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,760 Parique to look at what they call the tabulator images, which 478 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,440 are a really big fixation for the Fulton County. 479 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,920 And Clay Parikh looked at them and he was he was disturbed and 480 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,360 he relayed those concerns to the FBI. 481 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,320 And and you know, that was part of what what inspired this raid. 482 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,000 And and before we dig into Clay Parikh, and that's going to take 483 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,120 a second, let me just let me just preface this whole 484 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:22,840 discussion with the report and the allegations around Fulton 485 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,760 County with like just a couple of key details. 486 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:26,720 Because I, you know, we don't need to get bogged down in it 487 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,480 because this stuff has been litigated. 488 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,200 It has been debunked. But essentially, you know, what 489 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,000 you've had happened in Georgia is because Trump and his allies 490 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,080 have been fixated on it. You've seen multiple recounts 491 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,680 and audits. The result has been affirmed by 492 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,320 members of Trump's own party. If anything, he's gained votes 493 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,920 when they, when they looked at it very closely. 494 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:53,560 But because of the level of scrutiny, there have been at 495 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,240 points a couple of small errors with the process that were 496 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,080 found, which, you know, frankly, I think if, if, if most 497 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,760 statewide elections were subjected to, to, you know, 3 498 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,800 recounts in an audit, like you'd probably find a, a fuck up or 499 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,760 two, right? So for example, like one 500 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:15,160 incident where, you know, 3000 ballots were counted twice and, 501 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,960 and by the way, we know that because they caught it, right? 502 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,720 And they addressed that these ballot images that the 503 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,760 denialists are fixated on, you know, it seems like at points 504 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:32,320 some of the ballot images, so basically a ballot is submitted. 505 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,720 It is theoretically there's a visual copy made of it seems 506 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,240 like for some of them, you know, they either didn't make a visual 507 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,920 copy or or accidentally made a visual copy of of 2, right? 508 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,680 These tabulators, these are tabulated images. 509 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,480 These are records of individual counts on individual machines. 510 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,960 So these are the fixations of of these groups. 511 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:57,480 What I love about the FBI affidavit is that even as they 512 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,080 say, we found evidence of possible criminal activity to 513 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,840 the point that we're going to raid the county election hub and 514 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,640 take 600 plus boxes of voting records and just seize this 515 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,400 stuff. Even if they say all this, the 516 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,880 affidavit includes all of the probably innocuous explanations 517 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,920 for the various obsessions of the election denialists without 518 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,080 litigating this and going down the rabbit hole with them very 519 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,840 broadly. You know, they're they're 520 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,320 worried about intermediary steps in the process without being 521 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,320 worried about the final count. And one of my favorite lines in 522 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,640 the affidavit is actually related to Clay Pariks fixation 523 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,960 with these tabulator images. And and an unnamed witness who 524 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,720 you know has been involved in in in investigating this stuff said 525 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,920 the tabulator tapes from the I'm quoting now the tabulator tapes 526 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,520 from the original count are not compared to the reports from the 527 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,680 recount witness 6 stated that the ballots are what mattered. 528 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,880 So again, the actual votes and the proper counting of those 529 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,320 votes is all that mattered, not an individual record on a 530 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,240 machine or some image someone may have copied wrong. 531 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,680 At one point was the count OK. And and continually every 532 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,080 investigator and state official has said yes, right. 533 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,440 So anyway, you've got Clay Parikh. 534 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:16,640 He's a special government employee. 535 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,360 He's obsessed with the ballot images. 536 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,080 And he comes out of also the stop the Steel election denial 537 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,400 universe. He'd actually appeared as a 538 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,280 quote UN quote, expert witness for Carrie Lake in in in that 539 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,320 trial where Kurt Olson was representing her. 540 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,160 So he's an associate of all these people. 541 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,840 He's been, you know, at events with Mike Lindell and David 542 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,080 Clements, this other guy coming out of New Mexico who's a 543 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,320 thoroughly debunked conspiracy theorist. 544 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,200 But what's interesting about play is, you know, he purports 545 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,760 to be a Marine veteran, a a former defense contractor and 546 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,240 just like a real cybersecurity expert. 547 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,800 So I called him to get a flavor of his concerns and expertise. 548 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,960 And and as you were saying before Jared, he he begins the 549 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,480 call by saying I'm not going to comment on anything. 550 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,520 He confirmed he was a special government employee in the 551 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,800 executive branch, but he said he couldn't talk about it. 552 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,920 He couldn't talk about if his work got to the president. 553 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,200 And you know he wasn't going to comment because he doesn't like 554 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,560 the media. Hold on a second, Was it that he 555 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,360 is, I don't want to say too stupid or just too ignorant to 556 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,960 understand that I don't want to comment was not an agreement to 557 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,200 go off the record. Is that like, is it just I don't 558 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:24,920 want to comment and now I'm going to keep talking because 559 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,920 that's what it sounds like. It sounds like he was like 560 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,800 thinking he was coming to an agreement to go off the record 561 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,960 but said the wrong. No, no, no, we did not go off 562 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,200 record at any point in this conversation. 563 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,200 It wasn't even close to that. This is this is the ideal. 564 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,040 This is the ideal guide to interview. 565 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,680 Continue. It was, it was absolutely a 566 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,040 reporter's dream because because he said I'm not going to 567 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,320 comment. And then he proceeded to hold 568 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,000 forth for two hours, literally almost two hours, going up until 569 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,200 almost midnight New York time the other night. 570 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,080 I'm still kind of fried this week over it. 571 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,120 So good. Yeah, I spent, I spent a long 572 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,960 dark night of the soul with Clay Parique. 573 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,160 And, and, you know, he didn't want to comment about, you know, 574 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,080 specifically what might come next, what his work is that he's 575 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,440 doing in the White House. But he did want to comment on 576 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,760 everything else, including, you know, his belief that there may 577 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,400 be poisons in the food supply and sodas, that there's a quote 578 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,880 UN quote cabal of quote UN quote pure evil that may be running 579 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,120 things in the world. That evil includes, quote, UN 580 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,040 quote, gay pride. He suggested at one point that 581 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,480 it might be demonic in nature. He claimed that during his 582 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,680 military career, he he had been experimented on. 583 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,840 I mean, this was this was the conspiracy. 584 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,600 Hold on, I got to. I got to correct your passive 585 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,600 voice. Here had been experiment who 586 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,640 experimented on him? Who? 587 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,920 Who is the person who did the experimenting? 588 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,560 That's the part I want to know. Who experimented on him? 589 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,640 Well, so this is the amazing thing. 590 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,440 And I kept trying to push him on this, right. 591 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,480 But here you have a guy who is a special government employee in 592 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,440 the executive branch, right, working on an investigation. 593 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,440 We haven't even touched on this, but but but the entire election 594 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,280 inquiry is being directed by Tulsi Gabbard, the director of 595 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:22,040 National Intelligence, the president's top spy master, and 596 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,400 FBI Director Cash Patel. A regular fixture on this show, 597 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:26,240 by the way. Cash. 598 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,400 So I don't. Know, I don't know if you've 599 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,520 seen it. I, I feel like we should have 600 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,240 this handy Jared just to just to play the audio for everybody. 601 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,360 But when he was interviewed with like Katie Miller, he did a 602 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,680 thing with with Katie Miller. We we love the Katie Miller 603 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,800 podcast. Yeah, the big fans of it. 604 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,640 And he, you know, proceeded to talk about his Uber Eats orders 605 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,080 at length. And then he was saying that they 606 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,880 asked him what he likes to do. And he's like, I don't like to 607 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,080 do anything, man. And then he proceeded to talk 608 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,440 about his favorite shows on Paramount Plus and how he's 609 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,720 watching Land man. And it just really, it's very 610 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,520 weird because because it almost feels like he does nothing, but 611 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,679 yet he's he's somehow tagged in everything that happens. 612 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:13,159 I mean, you know, not to go off an attention here, but I I I 613 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:16,400 love Katie Millers podcast. It is some of the most 614 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:22,920 unintentionally funny. It is so haunting man. 615 00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:27,040 It's just like stays with you. The self-awareness is not strong 616 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,239 with that one. But but you know, so you've got 617 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,320 Clay Parique and he's literally working for the White House and 618 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,600 some of the government's top spies. 619 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,480 These are normally the people that, you know, your traditional 620 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,800 X-Files are a conspiracy theorist were fixated on, right? 621 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,320 And yet Clay Parique is alleging there's a conspiracy inside the 622 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,040 government. It's like, bro, you're inside 623 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,880 the government, the calls coming from inside the White House. 624 00:34:56,199 --> 00:35:02,400 You know, he, he really didn't seem able to grapple with it. 625 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,680 You know, he, he kept saying there was a deep state. 626 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:08,720 And it's like, then why are you working for the administration, 627 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:09,560 right? Like. 628 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,840 You, bro, that's you. And, and you know what, he he 629 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,400 basically framed it, you know, despite literally working for 630 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,720 the president and the director of the FBI and what have you, 631 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,040 as, you know, this small group of people fighting against this 632 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,000 pure evil cabal. And you know, when he cited the 633 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,640 oligarchs and at one point I was like, you know, I asked him 634 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,000 because, because I think the first quote UN quote special 635 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,800 government employee we all met in this brave new world we're 636 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,800 living in was Elon Musk, right? And I'm like, well, if you're 637 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,920 worried about oligarchs, like, what about Elon, right? 638 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,000 And he just said, you know, that it was like somehow a powerful 639 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,000 signal to have Elon take a role in the administration. 640 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,200 He didn't really elaborate on that. 641 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,720 And I will say that, you know, one feature of talking to Clay 642 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:59,080 Tariq was that as much as he went off for two hours, I didn't 643 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,200 get a word in edgewise. This was virtually listening to 644 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,360 a paranoid monologue. And I also just want to go back 645 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,160 to the fact that presumably he's in DC. 646 00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:12,320 This is, you know, 10:00 PM to midnight. 647 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:14,200 You're you're getting the night shift. 648 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,800 I believe, I believe. He's presumably he's just like 649 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,520 chilling at his house and just letting it RIP. 650 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,840 I believe he may have been in Alabama. 651 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,040 So. So we'll give him an hour. 652 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,160 This was probably more up to 11:00 PM his time. 653 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,040 But yeah, it was a late night phone call. 654 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:35,400 And I have to tell you, you know, and typically as a 655 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,160 reporter, I mean, again, I said this is a reporter's name, 656 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,280 right? When you have someone inside the 657 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,840 executive branch, just like letting loose inside your phone, 658 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,080 you don't want to stop them. Except that with Clay, it got so 659 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,320 incoherent. And, and I was honestly tired 660 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,280 that, that by the end of this call, I was able to get him off 661 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,720 the phone. And it came after I tried to say 662 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:58,000 goodbye about 5 or 6 times because the, the substance, as 663 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,760 it were, of our call, you know, had long since passed. 664 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,160 And again, I wasn't getting answers to these these 665 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,880 fundamental, like, questions about like what kind of work 666 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,040 he's doing now and also, you know, these tensions about like 667 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,760 being against the deep state while working for the state. 668 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,960 He just was not giving a coherent answer on that. 669 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:20,400 But I do think it was revelatory in a sense of showing the 670 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,600 Christian nationalism and extreme conspiracy theory 671 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,440 ideology that has now under Trump been brought inside the 672 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,680 government literally. And that is through figures like 673 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,720 Kurt Olson and Clay Parikh in the Election Oversight Group now 674 00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:39,000 directing law enforcement actions and directing the stop 675 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,000 to Steal assault on our election infrastructure. 676 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:44,520 I just want to ask this question and I don't know if this is out 677 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,680 of order, Jared, but I, I, I, it fits sequentially for me here. 678 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,680 So we've got this rogues gallery of brain poison freaks. 679 00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:56,320 I am not at not that's not your reporting. 680 00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,200 That's my personal opinion. If you know, just to keep you 681 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,720 objective, how about Trump Derangement Syndrome, right? 682 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,720 Like they're like, oh, his brothers got Trump arrangement. 683 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:07,880 I mean, the people who have Trumped arrangements syndrome 684 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,480 are these mother fuckers. Quite frankly. 685 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,920 It's keep part of my French. Their brains are like cooked on 686 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,200 this material. You have that you would mention 687 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,040 previously that they had their own paramilitary stuff with the 688 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,280 Proud Boys and Oath Keepers. That's been institutionalized. 689 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,320 A lot of those people, a lot of the people who would be joining 690 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:31,160 those groups are now in groups like ICE and and CPB, right, or 691 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,800 CBP. CPB is dead. 692 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,040 That's the Corporation for Public Broadcasting that has not 693 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,480 been. That's right. 694 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,960 OK. There is no more CPB. 695 00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:44,280 The point is that they have a tremendous amount of power, they 696 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,360 have a lot of money. They have now an 697 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,760 institutionalized paramilitary and I think it's I, I feel very 698 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,400 comfortable calling ICE a paramilitary organization. 699 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,640 I don't think it's like, I don't think that's off base. 700 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,840 OK. As opposed to my my other 701 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,560 nicknames here. You got these together. 702 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,680 Their, their brains are cooked. They have these resources that I 703 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,360 just described. How concerned should we be that 704 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,480 they can overturn, you know, this, this still young project 705 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,720 of American democracy? You know, people I when 706 00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:20,040 Democrats are always like, we need to save the democracy. 707 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,640 I was like, no, that's the wrong thing, because democracy is 708 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,000 always flow. We need to make it better. 709 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,720 We need to, you know, make this more democratic than it than it 710 00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:29,280 is. Look at how screwed up our 711 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,120 system really is actually. But are they able to are, are, I 712 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,520 mean, are they are able to stifle this democracy in the 713 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,280 crib, this this particular group? 714 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,320 Because it does seem like a bunch of fools are involved 715 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,880 here. I know Tulsi from back of her 716 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,480 Modi support and all that stuff. She's got a lot. 717 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,400 I mean, she's you know, I've seen her workout regimen. 718 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,600 She's very serious person in that regard. 719 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,680 But these are not, this is not the best that, you know, these 720 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,720 are not the best of the brightest America has to offer 721 00:39:57,720 --> 00:39:59,880 trying to do this. Are they capable of doing? 722 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,600 I mean, is this, are we really the place where we're so weak 723 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,440 that this, that this crew can actually put democracy to death 724 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,760 in this country? I don't know how to look at I 725 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,720 don't want we need to take it seriously, you know, I mean, I'm 726 00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:15,840 certainly worried about it, but it also at the at the other 727 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,640 hand, it just seems like a, you know, a gallery of fools here. 728 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,640 You know, I'm so glad you asked me that question and I'm so glad 729 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,840 you you framed it exactly as you did. 730 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:28,360 I think you know what we're dealing with and it's kind of 731 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,960 hard to process this because it's almost 2 contradictory 732 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,400 impulses. It's ridiculous and incredibly 733 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,440 serious at the same time. You know when this guy is on the 734 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,000 phone with me saying he thinks soda might be poisoned so he 735 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,800 always sanitizes it with alcohol? 736 00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,440 I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's absurd. 737 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:48,920 It's absurd. In my house that's called a Jack 738 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,880 and Coke. Yeah, maybe some Jack Daniels. 739 00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:57,440 What it sounds like to me it's. Absurd, but, but it's incredibly 740 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,240 serious when it's coming from a special government employee 741 00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:07,080 whose words are being used to send armed men into an election 742 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,320 hub where they are stealing people's ballots with their 743 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,640 private information on them. And and, you know, somehow 744 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,440 incorporating that into, you know, an effort to challenge 745 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,800 elections, right? Tulsi Gabbard, as you were 746 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,200 saying, you know, I've done a lot of reporting at TPM how she 747 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,120 has these ties to an alleged religious cult in Hawaii. 748 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,480 She's, she's an extremely, let's say unique individual. 749 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:39,560 Absolutely. Yeah, theoretically she has no 750 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,720 mandate as the director of national intelligence to be 751 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:45,520 involved in domestic elections in this manner. 752 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,920 But here she is. And this is really happening, 753 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,000 right? And it's like Donald Trump, 754 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,240 like, you know, and I think it's it's a big part of how his rise 755 00:41:53,240 --> 00:41:54,760 happened. I mean, he was basically doing 756 00:41:54,760 --> 00:42:00,200 like Don Rickles stand up comedy with the 2016 GOP field during 757 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,080 the primary. And it was ridiculous and funny 758 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,320 until all of a sudden, you know, police officers were having, you 759 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,560 know, what they've described as medieval style fighting on the 760 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,440 steps of the Capitol. And are, are are literally, you 761 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,000 know, most sacred institutions were being smashed and broken 762 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,560 into. So this is really, really 763 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,520 serious. And I think, you know, 764 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,360 societally, we're sort of still grappling with that, right? 765 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:28,240 There was this whole strain of discourse on blue sky. 766 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,640 And it really started around this writers interview that 767 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,400 Trump did was like, well, maybe we shouldn't even have elections 768 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,440 at all, right? And and you know, a lot of very 769 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,120 knowing, very important conventional wisdom types, you 770 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,360 know, very quickly said, well, good thing the president doesn't 771 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,960 control elections, which are run by the states. 772 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,480 And you know he can't do that. Dude, it's the the, you know all 773 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:57,920 time banger tweet of like the Democrats saying dogs can't play 774 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,800 basketball that's against the rules while like Airpod does a 775 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:06,680 backflip dunk behind. Them right now, you know, the 776 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:10,600 golden retriever of authoritarianism is just, you 777 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,840 know, dunking in our faces, right? 778 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,160 And some people are unable to call it that. 779 00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,280 And, you know, they would still like to pretend the rules are 780 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,920 are are holding harder than they are. 781 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,360 You know, I think one of the best examples of this is what's 782 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:28,080 going on with the shutdown in ICE, where Democrats are trying 783 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,640 to sort of slap ICE on the wrist and quote UN quote reformat. 784 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:34,360 And one of their quote UN quote reform demands is for ICE not to 785 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,520 seize people without a judicial warrant. 786 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,120 Well, guess what? That's already the law, right? 787 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,120 So we are struggling to enforce the rules, right? 788 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,080 We're struggling to enforce things like, hey, the director 789 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,320 of National intelligence shouldn't be conducting a raid. 790 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,320 The same thing is true, of course, of the, the, the filmed 791 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:57,680 executions of Renee Goode and Alex Petty, which the the issue 792 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,600 is like, can we get, can we get an investigation into this? 793 00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:03,520 It's like they're, they're, I mean, they're anybody who is 794 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,640 shot on tape, where are the what they did beforehand. 795 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,960 There's an investigation into it and, and what is being 796 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,000 normalized with that as, you know, feedback off what you're 797 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,880 saying is, is this nonsense about like, Oh, well, maybe we 798 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,640 if we're lucky, we can, maybe we can get an investigation into it 799 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,800 as if that's is it, if that's something that that would be a 800 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,600 win. You know, I mean, that's the 801 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,600 that that is the Ground Zero of the way our society is supposed 802 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,040 to function. And, and, you know, when it 803 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,640 comes to this election challenge, you know, and when I 804 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:40,320 say election challenge, I mean this really major challenge to 805 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,320 our free and fair election process. 806 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,680 When it comes to that, you're seeing people say basically, 807 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,880 don't worry about it. Trump doesn't have magic powers. 808 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,760 And, you know, calling anyone who has real concerns about this 809 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,840 a quote UN quote doomer, right. And I'm actually glad to do this 810 00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,400 in the podcast format because like people can hear me like, 811 00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:03,000 you know, I'm I'm going out to a lovely dinner with my wife 812 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,240 tomorrow. I'm listening to Maori drum and 813 00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:08,800 bass and technical be like I'm having fun in my life, But I'm 814 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:12,320 also really freaked out about, you know, where we're headed 815 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,480 societally. And I think we are deep down the 816 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,400 road of authoritarianism and I, I, I see people covering the 817 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,080 2026 midterms in the 2028 campaign as though it's going to 818 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,320 be a conventional race. And it's like, no, it is already 819 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,440 not conventional. The boxes have been seized in 820 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,560 Fulton County. And I think to put a bow on the 821 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,960 whole thing here, what I will say is that basically what 822 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,880 Fulton County shows us is that the most extreme conspiracy 823 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,400 minded people have now gotten inside of the government. 824 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,520 They are being empowered by Trump, who has been fostering 825 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,400 and and asking for this movement for 10 years now. 826 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,960 They are trying multiple things at once. 827 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,400 You know, I think it's important to mention that while 828 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,920 Minneapolis was sort of being held hostage by the armed ICE 829 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,280 occupation, Pam Bondi was demanding their voter rolls, 830 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,240 right? So, so that gets back to what I 831 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:09,920 was saying earlier. It's not just Georgia right as 832 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:11,920 this is going on. Trump saying is, as you said 833 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,160 earlier, Mike, he wants to nationalize elections. 834 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,640 He said to Reuters he doesn't want to have elections at all. 835 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,680 Steve Bannon is saying maybe we'll have ICE at the polls. 836 00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,240 You know, there was this incredible, incredible exchange 837 00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:27,600 in the Senate where Democrats were asking one of the one of 838 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,960 the the administrators about this and, and he's like, no, 839 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,480 we're not going to have ICE at the polls And, and the Democrats 840 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:33,520 apply. Sure hope not. 841 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,640 You know, it's like we're we're really deep down this road. 842 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,640 And, you know, it's not just ice. 843 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,800 It's not just the National Guard getting called into the cities. 844 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,680 You know, we're seeing Trump, you know, such as the situation 845 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,200 with Mark Kelly, such as ice going into Minnesota, where Tim 846 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,360 Walls was governor, such as ice going into Illinois, where where 847 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,880 Pritzker's governor. We're seeing Trump target his 848 00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:03,040 potential 2828 rivals. We're seeing them take hold of 849 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,160 state election boards. So in Georgia, one of the things 850 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,000 that's scary now is if there is some kind of criminal complaint 851 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,320 cooked up with this half baked evidence, the the Republican 852 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,560 legislature has ensured there's enough mega allies, including 853 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,600 this lapsed obstetrician on the board there where potentially 854 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,920 they could take over election administration in four different 855 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,640 counties, right? And I think all of the 856 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,080 dismissiveness about this misses what Trump has done, misses what 857 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,920 he's saying he wants to do, which includes running for a 858 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,440 third term, by the way, right? And also misses the boat in 859 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:44,040 that, you know, we don't need elections to turn off, like, a 860 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:45,520 light switch for it to be a problem. 861 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,840 That's probably something Trump can't do. 862 00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:53,440 But can he make it crazy or make it hard to certify the results 863 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,440 in a key swing state or swing district or swing county? 864 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,000 Yes. Could that create constitutional 865 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,120 crisis in chaos? Yes. 866 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:03,680 And we need to be prepared for that. 867 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,160 We need to address that reality because again, he's saying he 868 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,640 wants to do it and he's well down the road. 869 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,200 And and also just the threat of putting people at the polls, 870 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,480 which didn't just come from Steve Bannon. 871 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,720 I know there was this debate about whether it should be take 872 00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:21,640 it seriously. Steve Bannon says all kinds of 873 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,680 things. I think Steve Bannon is actually 874 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,280 pretty well clued into like, what's? 875 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,920 Going on. And and and likes, yeah, he 876 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,200 absolutely said it as a flex, right? 877 00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,320 To try to think he, he knows he can get, he can get a little bit 878 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,920 of juice out of a comment like that, but I think he also knows 879 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,880 there's some truth behind it. And it's something quite 880 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,120 frankly, they've been talking about in different ways for a 881 00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,520 long time. That goes back to 2020 when they 882 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,960 were like, well, should we, I mean, things are so crazy with 883 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,280 Black Lives Matter. Should we put people at the 884 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:54,160 polls, you know, etcetera. I don't think people are 885 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:59,160 prepared for what, you know, that kind of fear tactic. 886 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,320 But you know, psychologically what that might be if they're, 887 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:07,040 if all of a sudden there's a close race in whatever, it 888 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,960 doesn't matter which state because it's midterms. 889 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,320 And then all of a sudden there's just like a swarm of ICE agents, 890 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,840 you know, around that area under the Oh well, we don't know. 891 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,800 We might have a, you know, a legal using their term, you 892 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:24,520 know, illegal immigrant, right or something. 893 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:28,120 They're looking for one. There's going to try to vote and 894 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:29,800 in reality, what what you're going to get it. 895 00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,240 People going to have make a mental connection with, hey, 896 00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:34,720 they, you know, they've shot multiple people, they've shot 897 00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:38,720 white people, they've shot, you know, anybody could be scared of 898 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,360 that image and seeing that image on the news. 899 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,240 Yeah, I'm also glad you said what you did about the election 900 00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:49,240 board in Georgia, because this is the same story across so many 901 00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:51,160 states, including some pretty key ones. 902 00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,600 Like in Michigan, Republicans hold the House. 903 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:58,080 They have an election committee that's headed up by a woman who 904 00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,640 to this day thinks that the election was stolen in Michigan. 905 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,160 She's like a former clerk. The election denialist movement 906 00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:10,160 got a lot of attention after the 2020 election, of course, and 907 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,560 around the 2024 election, of course, people were watching 908 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,600 that. But this movement has really 909 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:20,880 been making a lot of headway and getting their people into 910 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,840 positions of authority where they can act on these theories. 911 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,240 They've spent years harassing election officials. 912 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,760 There's been an unprecedented purge of people quitting being 913 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,760 like, I'm not making, you know, 50 grand a year, whatever it may 914 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,560 be, to like, get death threats all the time. 915 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,640 And they filled it up with people who have their brains 916 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,920 cook. So it's it, I, I, I, I think 917 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:45,880 what you said is right. It doesn't look like a light 918 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,240 switch going on and off. It just looks like a bunch of 919 00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:52,400 tears happen. It's like a spider web crack on 920 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,040 your windshield like once the a Pebble hits. 921 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:59,560 But I have a question for you. Just to play devil's advocate 922 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,560 here. Do you think it could be 923 00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,800 accurate to say that Tulsi Gabbard is gesture maxing on the 924 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,920 foids? And a follow up to that, do you 925 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,600 think there's any risk of Tulsi getting brutally frame mogged by 926 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,280 a Democrat Maxine Giga Chad? Or might her own loyal Maxine 927 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,520 aura be enough to protect her cortisol levels from reaching 928 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,920 non optimal levels? Jared, you're taking full 929 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,640 responsibility for these questions. 930 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,600 So, you know, Jared, I'm not sure I have as a 41 year old 931 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:38,600 man, sufficient risk to, to understand what the Sigma is 932 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:43,640 going on here. But you know, I, I, I think one 933 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,720 thing you're alluding to here is people's brains being cooked 934 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,000 right. And and you know. 935 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:50,600 That was smooth, man. That was smooth. 936 00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,680 Well, there's there, there's a there is a brain rot epidemic, 937 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,520 right? And, and and Gen. 938 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,440 Z maybe or Gen. alpha, maybe the most blatant, you know, victims 939 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,720 of it with your, your Tung Tung. So horrors and ballerina 940 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:07,400 cappuccinos and whatever, but but boomers are are victims of 941 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,320 it, too. And one of the striking things 942 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,920 as I talked to Clay Parikh is he said, you know, I get all my 943 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,360 news from podcasts. I don't trust anything else. 944 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,920 And he was talking about starting his day with Badlands, 945 00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,360 which I'm sure you guys are familiar with. 946 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,440 It's just this, this Q Anon thing. 947 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,160 And he was like, I watch that every day and like, yeah, bro, I 948 00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,240 can tell when you're, you know, going on and on about the cabal 949 00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:31,400 and the the you know what? Demonic gay pride poison. 950 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,160 The director of the FBI, in addition to being a big fan of 951 00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,520 Paramount Plus, Uber Eats, and the New York Islanders, was a 952 00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:42,280 fucking pod. He's AQ Anon podcaster. 953 00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,680 Well, I OK, by by the way, let's go Islanders. 954 00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,080 I'm really excited about matching. 955 00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:48,920 Me too. You're an Islander fan too. 956 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,720 I am too. I'm, you know, but I, I went to 957 00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:56,040 one game this year and it was the game where the Utah Mammoths 958 00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,480 or whatever they are this new team beat beat us 7:00 to 1:00 959 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,560 because everybody on the Islanders just hungover from New 960 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,520 Year's and. Well, I I got to see the. 961 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:07,560 Horrible waste of 200 and whatever dollars I spent to 962 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,200 bring my family to that. I got to see them beat the pens 963 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:12,440 in overtime earlier this month, so we're going to have to go out 964 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,920 to UBS together because I'm I'm, I got a good record so. 965 00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:16,280 Hit me up. Hit me up. 966 00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,320 Let's go. Yeah. 967 00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:22,200 But but you know, what I will say is, you know, Clay Parikh is 968 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,040 cooked on these podcasts. And by the way, he's also 969 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,800 watching your streaming services and he's taking it as reality. 970 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,920 One of the crazier things he said to me was that, you know, 971 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:34,240 he felt NBC's The Blacklist was a quote UN quote documentary 972 00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:37,200 about the future. And that was that was something 973 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,280 he threw out there as he was trying to explain to me what the 974 00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,120 cabal is. You know, and again, it's like 975 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,760 if you think the CIA is corrupt, Tulsi Gabbards their boss, bro, 976 00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,120 you're working for her. But you know, he was also saying 977 00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:54,040 that one of his idols is Ron Swanson because he's working in 978 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,000 government while he hates it. And he also loves. 979 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,880 Me. And it's like, dude, like Ron 980 00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,520 Swanson wasn't aspirational, right? 981 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,040 Like you're not getting the joke, but but I think that's. 982 00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,000 This guy, this guy is very Jared coded like this is the type of 983 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,680 guy that Jared is very interested in. 984 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:10,480 He likes no. I think I began the 985 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,160 conversation, you know, saying this is a type of guy and, and, 986 00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:19,280 and I think, you know, what Georgia is right now is it's a 987 00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,760 window into this larger election challenge. 988 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,240 And, and it is a state that, as we've said, has been a key focus 989 00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:28,040 for them. It's it's one where, you know, 990 00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,360 due to the power they've obtained on the board and they 991 00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,680 they are in a position to do some real damage, But it's not 992 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,120 the only one. And, you know, I think my 993 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,480 conversation with Clay Parikh, which I really would encourage 994 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:43,400 people to read on TPM is a window into just how deranged 995 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,120 and dangerous this all is. But let's also keep in mind that 996 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,880 he didn't comment on a lot. He didn't comment on what else 997 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,360 might be next and what else he's working on. 998 00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,960 And I think when you see these people and I'm tracking all of 999 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,160 them, you know, you're you're you're Cleta Mitchell's, you're 1000 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,120 Liz Harrington's, you're Kevin Montclass. 1001 00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,520 They are very excited right now. They see a fellow traveler in 1002 00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,360 Tulsi Gabbard. I was watching Infowars where 1003 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:10,040 where Stuart Rhodes, the founder of the Oath Keepers. 1004 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,360 And you know, who was the time for seditious conspiracies for 1005 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,440 leading those guys to the Capitol on January 6th? 1006 00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,040 You know, he was, he was referring to Tulsi Gabbard as 1007 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,160 you know, quote, UN quote, black belt and the only person he 1008 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,920 trusts in government. These people are rejoicing and 1009 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:27,080 they are telling us more is coming and they have obtained 1010 00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,880 real power. In in mentioning the boomers and 1011 00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:32,800 and that and and that their brains are also cooked and blah 1012 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,200 blah blah. It is probably a tragedy that 1013 00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,120 there were many people in this country who are going to die of 1014 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,560 old age believing stuff that is completely not true and 1015 00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,760 completely insane. That's sad, right? 1016 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,920 But that's been, that's happened in different ways throughout 1017 00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:52,200 American history. I guess what I see here and, 1018 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:58,400 and, and correct me if I'm wrong, they have this through 1019 00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,960 this, you know, for lack of a better word, disinfo. 1020 00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:04,680 They have this like a square peg that they're trying to shove 1021 00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,920 into a circular hole, right? In which they're like, this is 1022 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:12,760 the reality that I see and America is a different reality 1023 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,280 that we live through and they're just trying to like just jam 1024 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,560 cram it in. And it seems like a race to kind 1025 00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,600 of prevent prevent that from having because it won't actually 1026 00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,520 even fit when they get it through. 1027 00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:28,400 They'll just it'll just be some kind of more freakish version of 1028 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,320 America with authoritarianism and, and and basically trying to 1029 00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:37,960 just just stop them. Are you aware of the various 1030 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,040 different methods in which people are trying to stop this? 1031 00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:45,160 You, you have, you have folks like Raskin who make a lot of 1032 00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,800 noise about elections and, and about this stuff. 1033 00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,800 What are we? Because I remember after January 1034 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,120 6th, there was a January 6th committee. 1035 00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,600 I and many of my colleagues wrote various things for them or 1036 00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,000 were interviewed by them, you know, and ultimately there was 1037 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,520 this theatrical show that went on. 1038 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,000 There were a few people who were held in contempt and there were 1039 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,520 some charges around that. And but ultimately what we got 1040 00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,520 was was 2024 and Trump, you know, are there any, what you 1041 00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:22,920 know, what are the the tools to kind of stop this effort to jam 1042 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,240 the fake reality into America as it exists? 1043 00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,840 One of the things I've just been obsessed with over the past 1044 00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:33,240 couple of years is again, that there is this authoritarian 1045 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:38,760 movement to, to essentially, you know, take democracy out of the 1046 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,760 picture. It does have these militant 1047 00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,880 arms, these propaganda arms, these these legal arms and 1048 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,720 political arms. You know, and I think a big 1049 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:55,160 problem after January 6th was you saw consequences for the 1050 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,480 rioters. You saw consequences for people 1051 00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,920 like Stewart Rhodes. But we did not address the 1052 00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:06,000 higher level organized elements of, of, of the push that brought 1053 00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:07,400 people into the capital that day. 1054 00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,560 Yeah. You know, particularly the 1055 00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,800 political arm. You know, at TPM, we published 1056 00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,200 Mark Meadows's text messages and they showed how members of 1057 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,880 Congress were involved in these efforts to to overturn the 1058 00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,440 elections, including particularly in Georgia. 1059 00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,680 We have literally an entire story on that. 1060 00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,760 And there was no consequence for any of them. 1061 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,400 And so I think we're living in the world where something 1062 00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,160 extreme happens or something like that, something that 1063 00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,080 extreme happens and there are no consequences. 1064 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,240 And I would contrast that maybe to Brazil and South Korea, where 1065 00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,480 just recently you saw sort of attempts to throw out an 1066 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,440 election and attempts to seize power from the capital. 1067 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:49,280 And there was a real robust legal and political response 1068 00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:53,720 ensuring that those people were were removed from politics, 1069 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:55,600 right? And we're seeing what happens 1070 00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,200 when you don't deal with the problem, right? 1071 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,640 That being said, you know, I'm not a Duber, right? 1072 00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:03,200 I'm going to hockey game. Yeah. 1073 00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:04,800 I'm like, I'm having fun in my life. 1074 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,280 And I don't know, right, That this is going to succeed. 1075 00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:14,360 Ultimately, I think we need to to be honest and real about the 1076 00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,040 fact that we're far down a dark Rd. 1077 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,920 I think we need to be honest and real that the intent is 1078 00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,080 potentially for Trump to stay a third term or to disrupt 1079 00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:27,120 elections so that one of his allies is able to win no matter 1080 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,360 what, right? And I say, you know, no matter 1081 00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:30,720 what. But the reality is his numbers 1082 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,440 are pretty bad. And I think that's part of why 1083 00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:33,880 they're flailing so much right now. 1084 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,680 But I don't know that it's going to succeed. 1085 00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,400 I think First off, I would almost go into the language of, 1086 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,000 of recovery, right? The first step to the first step 1087 00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,520 to dealing with your problem is admitting you have a problem, 1088 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:48,880 right? And, and, and, and right now as 1089 00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:52,360 a country, like we're addicted to brain drugs and we need to 1090 00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:56,320 admit that we have a problem. But also, you know what I will 1091 00:59:56,320 --> 01:00:01,040 say, while maybe I haven't been impressed with the Democrats and 1092 01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:05,720 the political response to Trump, I think people are really rising 1093 01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:06,680 up. Right. 1094 01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,160 And, and, and, you know, at the tail end of last year, I wrote a 1095 01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,160 series on TPM about what we called the undocumented 1096 01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,400 underground. And as much as Trump has this 1097 01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:19,360 authoritarian movement, what I started to see was that there's 1098 01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:23,520 this movement confronting Trump and mass deportation that 1099 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,320 includes a political arm that includes a legal arm and court 1100 01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,840 observers and people, you know, getting these court orders, 1101 01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:32,160 pulling people out of ICE detention, right? 1102 01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,480 We may have these, everyone talks about the masked folks in 1103 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,120 the streets, but but the reality is sometimes when they take 1104 01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:40,440 people, those people get free because, you know, there are 1105 01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,840 regular people, you know, filing paperwork and going to court on 1106 01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:45,800 their behalf. And then, you know, this 1107 01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,760 resistance also includes the protest component and activist 1108 01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,760 component with people observing them in the street, which is, 1109 01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,080 you know, part of the only reason we really know and 1110 01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,520 understand how folks like Alex Pretty and Renee Good died. 1111 01:00:57,720 --> 01:01:01,360 So people are standing up, you know, and we've seen this 1112 01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,840 rebuffed to some degree in, in Massachusetts, I'm sorry, 1113 01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,240 Massachusetts, we've seen this rebuffed to some degree in, in, 1114 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:10,880 in Minneapolis. You know, we're also seeing, I 1115 01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:14,600 think folks like Mark Elias and people who are really preparing 1116 01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,000 for the legal fights that we're going to need to have around, 1117 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,840 around the next elections. So, so I think people are 1118 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:25,360 standing up. I think there is opposition, but 1119 01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:31,320 that's got to begin with folks realizing just how dangerous 1120 01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,160 it's getting. So we've been talking to Hunter 1121 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:38,560 Walker, investigative reporter for Talking Points Memo. 1122 01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,560 I'll put links to his social profile, some of the stories 1123 01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:43,600 he's written. Hunter, before we let you go, 1124 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,400 I've got one more question. I know it's hard to choose, but 1125 01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,120 what's your favorite Kid Rock song? 1126 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:59,040 Oh my, I would say my favorite Kid Rock song is is a live cut, 1127 01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:02,000 a deep cut. And it's his performance at the 1128 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,360 TPUSA where where he struggled to lip sync because. 1129 01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,280 Yeah, a lot of not a lot of people know about that one. 1130 01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:12,000 Yeah. I mean, you know, I really did 1131 01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:15,920 enjoy watching that. And, and, you know, I think as 1132 01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:21,200 we we have this debate of sort of dumorism versus optimism, I 1133 01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:27,760 think TPUSA's effort to have a halftime show because they were 1134 01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:33,320 angry about people speaking Spanish is a pretty good thing 1135 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:40,240 to point to when it comes to the limits of the rights, cultural 1136 01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:44,480 and actual power, right? That did not have the juice. 1137 01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:50,240 It didn't even function well. And the reality is, you know, 1138 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,120 there is an authoritarian movement that is trying to 1139 01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:57,640 change life as we know it. But sometimes, to paraphrase 1140 01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:59,360 Donald Trump, they're not sending their best. 1141 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:03,960 They're sending Kid Rock. I like that Nick Fuentes called 1142 01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:08,640 the White Coke show. At least I had a good laugh at 1143 01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:08,880 that.