Which film did you most enjoy doing Peter Sellers and is it
now looking back the same film? Well, I enjoyed playing very
much. I enjoyed very much playing
Claire, Quilty and Lolita a long way back.
Now just to the 1st 5 minutes of that film I enjoyed very much.
I like to do, I like that and I think it looks good when you
watch it on the screen. I don't believe by any means
that I've even begun to do what's inside me.
I have a burning sort of fire inside me to do certain things
which I know I'm going to do and I'm going to defeat all these
Berks that are around me and I'm going to do it.
I'm going to do it one of these days, and I think very soon
because I'm getting that way now, because I've, I mean, I
have a name of being very difficult.
I'm not difficult at all. I just cannot take mediocrity.
I just cannot take it on any level.
And I'm not difficult. It's just when people just don't
seem to know or have the basic knowledge of what makes A&B tick
that gets me. You know, for example, I, I, I,
I'm often written up as being, you know, nasty on the set.
I'm not nasty on the set at all. It's just that when you try to
argue a point with somebody, not argue discuss a point with
somebody, you see Kubrick, I always keep bringing Kubrick up
because he's a great person that way.
I mean, you can discuss anything with him and you can Chuck ideas
at each other and the outcome of the thing will either be his or
yours. The end product is all that
matters. The end product.
So you don't have to carry the argument away from the set.
You can be good friends off the set, but you can argue your
bloody heads off on the set. It doesn't matter.
The Hello and welcome to Goon Pod, the podcast that casts a
wry and occasionally wary eye over the combined oeuvre of Mrs.
Milligan, Sellers, Seek him and Bentin.
And that's all very well when it's a Pink Panther film, or
Spike playing a comedy postman, or Bentin with his potties.
But this week we're covering somewhat darker ground.
This week, we're talking about Stanley Kubrick's film
adaptation of Vladimir Nabokov's controversial novel Lolita,
starring James Mason, Sue Lyon, Shelly Winters and everyone's
favorite radio funny man Peter Sellers as the dissolute
playwright and predator Claire Quilty.
And joining me to talk about this fabulous film.
Is it a fabulous film? I think so.
Joining me to talk about this fabulous film is returning guest
Patrick Strain. Hello, Patrick.
Tyler, Hello. How are you?
I'm very good. I mean, it's just about to get
through that intro. Need some tongue twisters?
That's what you need. Yeah.
Red lorry. Yellow lorry, yeah.
Sells sells chips. I can't even do it myself.
People always ask me about my warmups.
I just say I'm Irish. It's a there's a friend of mine
who does a lot of work for Radio 4.
He goes his warm up, is a singer out on a quick cough and I'm
good to go. Quick cough, quick cough.
So. Like a hacking cough like.
Well, just like a puff and then then off.
The road. Fair enough.
OK. So and, and and what are you
doing at the moment, Patrick? So at the moment, UK listeners
can see me for three seconds in the Metropolitan Police's new ad
campaign. You can hear me say the words,
you're a little liar. So I'm, I'm domestic man, the
new Marvel superhero in that one.
And then people in London can head down to London Bridge to
the reconstruction of the Golden Hinds.
I've been running some actor LED workshops for children now this
summer. Wonderful that, because when you
joined the call, right at the outset, you were, as I said, you
were very much bright and breezy, hat on the side of the
head. You, you were full of them and
vigor, full of piss and vinegar. Can I say that?
It was. It's your show, Tyler.
And whereas I sound lugubrious and Moody and sullen and, and,
and there's such a contrast. But if you've been, it sounds
like you've been doing some some some really interesting fun
work, then well. Like all things, I just kind of,
I kind of keep myself busy and the weather has just been
glorious and Virgo is under the ascent apparently.
So that's been keeping me cheery since Saturday.
And also, I've ended up being an Amazon bestseller due to what
the Carl Frampton autobiography I did last year.
I mean, it's no extra money, but it's, it's, it's a nice little
I, I take the wins, if you know what I mean.
Yes, very good. As as one review as one reviewer
said, he's fine 95% of the time. Not sure what the over 5% were.
Jesus, I would say that as a massive win if I was fine 95% of
the time. So Patrick, last time you were
on which was was in last year. Yeah, it was last year.
Yes, yes. Yeah, talking about a rather
problematic film with Peter Sellers in it.
And you've returned to talk about a problematic film with
Peter Sellers in it. Yeah, we should do.
We should do a series called The Problematic Peter Sellers.
Yeah, Yeah. Now, I think I should right at
the outset, before we start talking, I, I don't know, I, I
just want to say, look, this film is that we're going to talk
about, it's based on a, on a controversial novel and, and,
and the themes in it have, I suppose, if anything, become
even more controversial perhaps as time has gone on.
Well, I, I saw a Twitter spot with JK Rowling, surprise,
surprise, but with, she mentions Novakov's novel and she
mentions, she says something like it's, she thinks is a great
romantic story and somebody sort of fights back and goes like, it
is a great novel, but it's a great novel because it's the,
it's a great example of the untruthful narrator.
And, you know, in many ways they're having this argument.
And I thought to myself, you know, both are true.
You can look at this this novel either way and both both of
arguments are relevant, but even even today this book would still
spark a lot of controversy. I mean, yeah, but The thing is,
it's so beautifully written and, and look, we're going to, I'm
sure that we won't be saying, we won't be saying anything
explicitly offensive or upsetting, but but there will be
certain plot points that will be unavoidable.
So I, I hope and trust that we can manage to get the tone
right, you know, keep it light. But so yes.
Lolita from 1962, directed by Stanley Kubrick.
So why this film? Again, I remember again, you
sort of have the two Kubrick films.
You have Doctor Strangelove and you have Lolita with Sellers.
And it's quite interesting because I think Doctor
Strangelove is a film that's almost taken on a life of its
own. You know, Secret Cinema did a
show. There's not even going to be a
West End play with Steve Hoogan. And the film is always really
every anniversary gets a re release.
I've got the re, the last re release coaster in my room from
the Prince Charles cinema. But what I find quite
interesting is that this is the film that their collaboration
starts. And I think I, I, it's one of my
favorite Kubrick films. It's also the favorite Kubrick
of David Lynch, Sofia Coppola, and Paul Thomas Anderson.
I, it's a great, I sort of believe that Sellers as an
actor, Sellers makes 3-4 great choices in his early career.
And those four great early choices are the lady killers.
I'm all right Jack, this film, Lolita and the Pink Panther,
because I feel they show what Seller's star quality was.
And so our star quality is stealing the show.
And those films are the great examples of him stealing the
show from other actors. Which is quite interesting
because when he's done a sense to being a star, the idea of
someone stealing a scene from him becomes the thing he most
despises. The great examples being John
Cleese and the Magic Christian where he gets Joe McGrath to
refilm the scene. And then also there is the film
The Bobo, where I, I don't know the actor's name, but he plays
the when they go to the dress shop with Brett Eckland.
And apparently there that was a you can even see it in the scene
itself. There's a real anger coming from
Peter Sellers because the focus is the upper actor who's being
very, very funny. So I always find that very
interesting that Sellers is a very clever early in his career
to take these sort of roles, but then when he is the leading
actor, he's not so generous on the way he died.
He kind of pulls the ladder up, so to speak.
So he's always selfish and he was an only child.
Not that that's an indication of anything to add, but he had a
particularly indulgent mother, yes, and he got everything he
wanted. Yeah, yeah.
Also as well for Kubrick, it's a very, very again, just kind of
coming back to myself. I think I remember Tyler, I
mentioned, you know, sort of sellers was kind of my
introduction to sort of the world of cinema.
You know, how what a film Star Wars and so forth.
I'm not kind of start of one of my, my loves of and becoming
sort of an amateur cinephile, but I always kind of say that I
knew the word Kubrick before I knew the word director.
Sort of like growing up in the house, I would see the Kubrick
collection, you know, we had Barry Lyndon and Full Metal
Jacket. I remember those VHS tapes and
they were just very, very specific because they used to
release them with the, the white cover with the poster on the
front and the Kubrick collection.
And I always just remember that being so distinctive.
And as I said, I I knew the word Kubrick before director.
And I think this film comes at a very interesting time for
Kubrick because it's the first, it's his first film that he has
complete creative control. You know, his projects just
prior to this. He's been fired off one eyed
Jack in 1958 by Marlon Brando. He then gets which at the time
when he's fired he does say to I'm not sure he's interviewed by
but he does mention that he's working on an adaptation of
Lolita because in 50 years he gets released.
The the novel gets released in 55 in the UK.
No one no one reviews it except for Graham Greene.
Graham Greene says it's one of the top three books of the year.
Hence everyone then starts reviewing.
It doesn't get released in America till 58 and from the fee
of the one Eyed Jack and his fee for doing Spartacus, which he
moves on to later, he's actually able to buy the rights for
Lolita with his producing partner at the time James B
Harris. But what's interesting is
mentioning 1 Eyed Jackie then moves on to Spartacus because
Anthony Mann gets fired and Kirk Douglas who was in passive glory
brings him on. But what happens on Spartacus is
he's told you can't be the Stanley Kubrick of passive glory
or the killing. You have to be a director for
hire. You have to stick to Dalton
Trumbo's script and you have to stick to the shooting slot we
already have going. So what's interesting is he's
working on Lolita while doing Spartacus, the kind of almost
relieve himself of the board, a bit like Woody Allen on Casino
Royale, where he writes an entire Broadway play.
Don't drink the water because he's so great creatively stifled
on set. So this is the first film that
he has full creative control and it's the first film he shoots in
England as well. How did that come about?
I never quite got to the bottom of that because he's, he's
pretty much anchored in England from the early 60s because he
doesn't like flying. But he presumably, well, not
necessarily flew, but he he came to England with what purpose?
I don't actually know what the purpose was originally.
He kind of, he sort of seems to be a bit like he sort of comes
here and he falls in love and then stays and spends, you know,
until, until he dies. It does mean that all his films,
yeah, necessarily like The Shining.
Yeah, yeah. Which is very much set in
America. Yeah, yeah, and, and, and this
film as well. And also Doctor Strangelove
again, A Full Metal Jacket filmed filmed filmed in London.
It was Battersea or somewhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Battersea. Battersea is the the
battlefields of of Vietnam. So yeah.
But again, there's a Shelley Winters, he appears in this film
because she mentions high on this particular project he
cycled everywhere and she even offered her limousine one time
to Kubrick and he said no. And then she questioned how on
earth he ever got to Ireland to film Barry Lyndon.
Because again, I think that's one of the last films he does
where there is location filming out in Ireland.
Right. But again, I think he spent
about a couple of weeks there. Then there was a bomb threat
from the IRA and he flew back. What happened?
What I know about this film is that a lot of the money was
raised in England under the under the umbrella that you had
to spend it in England. So I was always under the belief
that that's why it that's why the film is filmed in England.
I think he ends up in England, falls in love, and then just
spends the rest of his career over here.
That's kind of what my understanding always was.
Yeah. And there was, I know that there
was obviously a second unit in America shooting.
Yes, yes, yeah. But there is when we will come
to it. There's the penultimate scene of
the film where he goes to visit Lolita and it and I was watching
it again. I've seen this film many times
and I was watching it again for this and it and I've forgotten
that it was filmed in England. And I I didn't buy, I I did buy
it that he was that Humbert. Humbert was driving through a a,
a rather rough looking suburb of some other Midwest American.
Yeah. I mean, I, I to be honest, I,
you do get a few critics that go like quite clearly filmed in
England and I don't I actually disagree.
I I very much buy into the world that Kubrick creates in this
film far more than because there's that famous.
So where Michael Winter films Death Wish three, I can't
remember out in England, out in London.
And then Michael Winter in his biography claims I never watched
that movie. And they said, how did you get?
How did how are you able to film in in New York?
No, darling, we did it all in London.
But you watch that film now and you go, it's quite clearly like
there's no skyscrapers. Is that?
Doug Douglas heard. Douglas I've I've one set of
voices, they all sound to see him.
I'm down there. It's just a commercial.
I'm guessing you've read the novel.
I read the novel years and years ago.
So you're back? Yeah.
I still have a copy of it now. I sort of flicked through it
recently. But like all things.
And again, this is sort of one of the reasons I quite like
Kubrick. You know, it's Kubrick's Lolita.
It's not Nabokov's Lolita. It's, you know, it's Kubrick's
Clockwork Orange. It's not Burgess.
It's not. It's not King's The Shining.
It's. It's Kubrick's.
He very much puts his own stamp. And again, we'll talk about this
when we're talking about Peter Sellers, because the Claire
Quilty character of the novel and Adrian Lynn's adaptation in
the 90s is not the Claire Quilty we have in Kubrick's, Kubrick's
film. Are you quilty?
No, I'm Spartacus. You come to free the slaves or
something? Are you quilty?
Yeah. I am Quilty.
Yeah, sure. Hey, What you what you putting
your gloves on for, Captain? Your hands colder some.
Shall we have a little chat before we start?
Before we start, wow. All righty, all righty.
No, no, listen, listen, listen. Let's have a game, a little
lovely game of Roman ping pong. Like 2 civilized senators.
Roman pink. You're supposed to say Roman
Palm. OK.
You, Sir. I don't mind.
I don't. I just don't mind.
Come on. I read the book probably 20
years ago. Something like that.
I've been a big fan of Martin Amis for Better or ill, and he
was a huge Nabokov nut. Nabokov and Sol Bellow seem to
remember. Anyway, he was a big advocate of
everything to do with Nabokov. So I went through a period of of
reading a few Nabokov novels. I got onto Lolita and I
absolutely adored it, even though obviously I knew I knew
what the subject matter was going in.
But you just get carried away on the prose and and it's
beautifully written. Now I haven't reread it, but I
did like you. I've skimmed through it for this
and it there's obviously, yeah, there's there's a lot of changes
and and the Claire Quilty Quilty character is expanded.
Now the film is what, 2 1/2 hours just over.
Yeah, yeah. 2 1/2 hours long. Longest film that Peter Sellers
ever appeared in. Yes, but he's only in it for a
total of 34 minutes. However, it was very interesting
the way that it begins with the end.
Yes, well, apparently the reason for that is Kubrick wasn't he
thought that once Humpert seduces Lolita, he thinks that
that the novel actually got a bit boring until that final
scene. Yeah, sags in the middle kind.
Of yeah, sags in the middle. So he said I sacrificed I
sacrificed a great ending to have a better beginning.
So again, then the film ends up sort of in, in flashback, but
again, the, the, the book itself is in flashback.
He's a, he's in prison sort of telling his story.
So again, in many ways, he's sort of taken the same idea but
done it, done it differently. Thinking about it now, just it's
a bit similar to in that that conceit that he's in prison
writing his life story or his. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kind hearts and coronets. Kind hearts and coronets?
Absolutely. Yeah, exactly.
And it is that kind of, yeah, it's interesting that Kubrick
doesn't go for that because it is all set up for him in the
book. But he doesn't, he doesn't go
for that. He go, as you said, he puts the
end, which is the demise of Claire Quilty at the start of
the film. So the audience member watching
this, all they see is a man who who is going to murder another
man. We don't know.
We don't know who Claire Quilty is.
We get to understand that he's a bit weird, bit bit odd, bit
strange. But we don't know what the what
the motive is. We don't know his back story,
but we also know that he's going to die.
We don't know why. We want to find out why.
So we stick with the film. But it's interesting that, you
know, Nabokov seemed quite happy for Kubrick, because I think
Nabokov originally was given the task of writing the screenplay
with 400 pages or something. Well, Nabokov to Nabokov wrote a
screenplay without being commissioned is what I was
always. He sort of broke one and sort of
tried to bandy it a bike. So it wasn't that James B Harris
and Kubrick commissioned him to write a screenplay.
He'd written one already. As you said, it was 400 pages.
And I think somebody, James B Harris, someone asked James B
Harris, could you read it? He said you could barely lift
it. So he wrote a screenplay and,
and the what happened was then they bought the rights.
They bought the rights and would have got the screenplay as well
along with it. And what then happened was that
Kubrick gave sort of Nabokov a second chance to collaborate on
basically do another, another draft.
But I think what they've kind of worked out is like, I think
maybe 20% of Nabokov's work ends up in the film.
And then, interesting. Interestingly, he's the one who
gets nominated for an Academy Award.
Yeah, but also interestingly, you would have expected the the
opposite He he did quite like the Finnish movie.
Yeah, he very, very much like the Finnish movie.
It was a big guy. He was very complimentary of the
cast, except for the casting of Sue Lyons.
I think he wanted a French actress instead.
Well, I know that he said about about the revised script.
Obviously like you say, he had 20% input I suppose at, at, at,
at the final reckoning. But he said in a very typical
way that watching the finished product, watching the film of
Lolita was like a scenic drive, as perceived by the horizontal
passenger of an ambulance. That's.
A brilliant quote I like. That yeah, yeah.
That's great because it is like, in many ways it is a bit of a
rude movie. Yeah, it is it it, it really is.
Should we? Can we talk about the principal
actors for a kick off of? Course.
Because again, if you don't, if you haven't read the novel, if
you just watch the film, you'd be forgiven for thinking that.
So we have James Mason, the great James James.
Mason yes. I was waiting for that.
This is a prostitute. Oh, I'm doing that film next
week. I There you go.
You can drop me. I'll, I'll you can drop that
clip in there. This is a prostitute.
Yeah. So, yeah, you've got James Mason
is Humpert. Humpert.
Humpert, but you'd be forgiven for assuming that he is an
Englishman. Yes, he's meant to be meant to
be a Frenchman, but he's he's only, he's just referred to as
European. That that's it.
And and he's never his nationality is never specified,
but he to me, James Mason is really perfect casting for this.
Oh yeah. I think he needed someone who's
who's who is who comes across as European, not just English.
Yeah, right. So, so, you know, I was thinking
who else could have played it? And I think it's one like Paul
Schofield. Yeah, well the interesting thing
is the original choices you have, it was offered to Cary
Grant who turned it down and discussed the the Lawrence
Olivier who turned it down, though he had the same agents as
Kubrick at the time. And interestingly he turns down
Lolita but then ends up doing a a similar film in the same year
called Term of Trial with Sarah Miles.
So he turns down Lolita and then does this other film which is
the debut of Terence Stamp. Actually one of the interesting
stories is that Errol Flynn was up for the part, but he insisted
that his lover at the time, Beverly Garland play the Lolita
role. So that next that part, David,
David Niven apparently accepted the part but then had to give it
up because of the time he was doing ATV show.
And at the time TV shows were all about sponsorship, you know,
cigarette companies and stuff like that.
So when his sponsors discovered that he had agreed to be in this
adaptation of Lolita, they said we will pull all the sponsorship
for your TV show unless you turn it down.
So he turned down the rule. He'd have been completely wrong
though I think extremely. Wrong.
Yeah, yeah. He's too.
He's too British. Yes, yes, yes, and two straight,
I think so one of my favorite stories.
And I think Mason gets this perfect and it's constantly he
holds on to throughout the entire film.
Apparently Kubrick said to him and you know, he wears that
white suit in the scene where he's at the dance.
So Kubrick said to him be or being be, you know, be the the
perfect, the perfect gentleman. But the moment someone touches
your suit, give them a look like you're going to pull their arms
off. And I feel like that's the
performance he gives. And I think he only of all those
actors I mentioned Olivier Flynn, Noël Coward.
No, Coward was apparently offered it.
They plays a kind of he plays a similar role in Bunny Lick is
missing. Rex Harrison was offered it as
well. But I think out of all of them,
again, because Mason's background, he, he, he starts
off, he becomes a leading man because he's a villain.
You know, he starts off in those games for melodramas.
You know, the man in grey, the wicked lady, that was his star
persona and he does have that. He can play that or being
gentleman, but he's got that little bit a bit like Dennis
Price. There's just there's there's a
little undercurrent going on. And George Sanders, there's a
there's an undercurrent going on there.
And I think that, as you said, they're missing his perfect
casting. He was the first choice, but he
was doing a Broadway play, so you have to turn it down.
Then luckily all those over actors turned it down and then
he quit the play and did this adaptation of Lolita instead.
This is a confession. I love you Last Sunday in
church, my dear one. When I asked the Lord what to do
about it, I was told to act as I am acting now.
You see, there's no alternative. I have loved you from the minute
I saw you. I am a passionate and lonely
woman and you are the love of my life.
Now you know, so you will. Please, at once, pack and leave.
This is a landlady's order. I'm dismissing the lodger.
I'm kicking you out. Go.
Scram. Departe.
I shall be back by dinner time. I do not wish to find you in the
house. You see, Sherry, if you decided
to stay, if I found you at home, which I know I won't, and that's
why I'm able to go go on like this.
The fact of your remaining would only mean one thing.
That you, that you want me as much as I do, you as a lifelong
mate, and you, you are ready to link up your life with mine
forever and ever and be a father to my little girl.
Goodbye dear one. Pray for me if you ever pray.
Speaking of Mason, because obviously I had mentioned all
those names sort of associated with that part, I can't, I've
never found anyone mention any of our actors offer the Claire
Quilty part. Well, in the book cruelty is
older. He's older and and he's a
shadow. You know, the as, as we keep
saying that the rule is very much expanded.
He's a bit like Harry Lime. He's more talked about than
seen. What I found when I was reading,
not reading, flicking through and reading bits of the novel to
prepare for this, He's, Yeah, like you say, he's a shadowy
figure. He never really comes into the
open. Yeah, he's he's he's a poster on
the wall. He's he gets mentioned at the
dance because of his uncle doing, which gets mentioned in
this film as well. But he's actually present and.
There's a few there's a few remnants of of the the novel
that turned out in the film, which make no sense.
But like he's he's he's referred to as trap TTRA Double P by
Humbert a couple of times because he reminds him of his of
Humbert's Uncle Gustav. Yes, yes.
And we'll return to that because there's a, there's a reference
later on you you said about at the dance, they talk about his
his uncle. Uncle Ivor.
Yeah, but that, that's never referred to again.
Yeah, never referred to again. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and in the novel and, and of course in the film, Claire
Quilty, again, it's it's an opportunity for Sellers to show
off his, his, you know, his talent as a, as a comic
chameleon. There's a scene, there's a very
amusing scene where he plays Doctor Zemp in the novel.
I believe that part of the the story is more or less performed
by a teacher at the school for Miss Pratt.
Yes, yes. Which again is PRA double T
which trap Pratt, I presume that's deliberate that kind of
the of the but they said yes, Sellers is masterful in this
film and he's just given pretty much free.
He seems to be given free rein. I'm going to quote quite a bit
from Roger Lewis. Roger Lewis, because Roger Lewis
said that in this film it is as if somebody has already made the
James Mason Shelley went to Sue Lyon film.
And then Elves and Goblins got at the negative and interspersed
it with Sellers. That's that, yeah.
I was about to say because going back to the novel and and Adrian
Lynn's film adaptation as well, he is a shadow.
And there's even times where you would question whether he's
there or not. It might be all in Hump.
There's a there's a reading of the book that Humbert Humbert
invents, that Claire Quilty is kind of there.
Yeah, that's as an interpretation because he sort
of, it's almost kind of, again, it's a film about, you know, the
two predators. And in many ways, you could
argue Humbert Humbert creates the Quilty character to say,
well, I can't be as bad because there's him as well, you know,
is that he's worse. So he's like a doppelganger of.
Yeah, exactly. Going like you may think, you
may think I'm bad, but this guy, you can interpret it that way.
And but I like what I like about that newest thing is that he's
not a shadow in this film. He's almost like a Sprite.
He's an evil Pixie who just kind of comes in, disrupts the the as
I said, it's a road movie and he's the roadblocks.
He is. That's brilliant.
My putting it, yeah. It's interesting because I think
Roger Lewis also mentions how James Mason got quite jealous of
Sellers on this film for stealing the show.
And apparently he said to someone like, you know, if I
knew, if I knew he was going to steal the show, I would have
played the Claire Quilty part. But there's no way that Claire
Quilty part would have been like that if you had James Mason in
the rule. This is very much Kubrick seeing
Sellers, and apparently one of the reasons that Kubrick cast
Sellers because he'd heard the best of Sellers, the LP
apparently that was, and the Battle of the sexes.
Apparently, these were the two things that he's seen Sellers in
and had decided to cast them in this film.
But the weird thing is the battle of the sexes.
Sellers plays an older man, a very a very meek older man.
Yeah, Yeah. But luckily, Sellers got the
got, got the gig. And Kubrick told Sellers, like
we say, he could more or less improvise.
Now. James Mason later wrote in his
memoirs that at one point Sellers told him that he didn't
actually particularly enjoy improvising.
Which I'm not buying that unless it was just Sellers being
Sellers and just being contrary of, you know, it was the, the
mood he was in on that day prompted him to say that to
Mason. But Kubrick said that Sellers,
even when he wasn't on form, because often he turned up to
the set in the morning, he'd been a bit of a bit of a fug,
bit of a bit of a bait. And but gradually, over time,
he'd fall into the spirit of the character and, and would take
off and, and his spirit would lift and his mood would lift
until he reached what Kubrick would call a state of comic
ecstasy. Yes, yes.
Well, I always find their collaboration very interesting
because Kubrick would have, I think like 2-3 cameras on him to
catch like that at that moment of comic ecstasy.
And I was always, I'm sure you knew, well, no, Tyler Sellers
was not a man who'd like to do more multiple takes.
Whereas Kubrick, who's known for doing multiple takes and you
can't, you can see it, that behind the scenes shot with him
and Shelley Duvall on The Shining when you get into that
big fight. But because Kubrick quite
clearly must have been in awe of him and all of his talents that
he changes how he films to accommodate Sellers.
Yes, there is not. Have you seen that chap that
Sellers does at the BFI, him and Milligan where he talks about,
you know, I can't stand media. You know, I, you know, people
say I'm difficult, but it's just I can't stand mediocrity.
And all this, again, if he's on the right wavelength of a
filmmaker, as he was with Kubrick, was with the boltings
early on. Obviously later on their
relationship falters with soft beds, hard battles.
Blake It. Blake Edwards.
Blake Edwards, Another example very early on.
Think Panther shot in the dark, then falls a bit apart later on.
But then with Kubrick and Ashby, you just have a Kubrick in
particular. It's just that all that he
changes his style, changes how he works to accommodate.
I mean, even the point in Doctor Strangelove where Peter Bull is
quite clearly corpsing, he keeps it because it's the best take.
Yeah, that's, that's true. Yeah.
I never thought of that. That's they left that in, didn't
they? Roger Lewis described cruelty
quite a bit in his, in his book at his BBQ sellers.
And these are wonderful. He he describes cruelty.
He says his appearances and scenes with their improvised
speeches are so unexpected and inconsequential.
Goonish but without Sikkim's healthy laughter to draw their
sting, he says. He says quilty is a patchwork
quilt of personality types, accents and attitudinising.
I think that's the first time I've ever said attitudinising.
Attitudinising. What a great word.
And then he says quilty and by inference, sellers are of
diabolical origin. Their courtesy is a bogus thing.
Yeah, I mean, that's because I, I, I came.
If you don't mind, I've got a quote from Sellers himself on
the character of Quilty. Yes.
And he says Quilty was a fantastic nightmarish character,
Part homosexual, part drug addict, part sedist, part
masochist, part anything twisted unhealthy you can think of.
He had to be horrifying at the same time funny.
OK, I've not read the book again.
Where does where does that part homosexual come in?
I don't know. Well, that's what.
But according to sellers, that's what, that's how he that's what
he thought of the rule. OK, possibly in the book it's
it's maybe expanded upon, I don't know.
Yeah, OK. I want to I want to talk about
the two other central cast members.
Two yeah, 2 Lions and Shelley Winters.
Right, It's it's Sue Lion, not lions, isn't it?
Or because I used to think it was like I used to think it was
lions, but some people call her Lions and some people call her
Lion. Now here Wikipedia entry is
Lion. Lion That's probably that's
probably correct. Sue Lion.
Yeah. So we'll go.
We'll go with Sue. Lion.
So in the novel the character is 12 1/2, yes.
And she's for you. She was 14 at the time of
filming, which is what they make the character in the film 14 I.
Mean which is still problematic, but it's slightly slightly
better. She wasn't.
She wasn't allowed to go to premiere because she was only 15
once they finished. No, no, now I mean I know
Nabokov did fancy not fancy her. Sorry, I'll finish the sentence.
I know Nabokov did fancy a different actress.
And by that I mean he he thought that there was a French actress
who would have been better, but he he was quite taken by lions
casting. At the time, yeah, yeah.
There was there was 800 teenage girls up for casting.
Hayley Mills, Tuesday Weld. I think we're amongst awesome.
And of course, Hayley Mills was under contract to Disney.
Yes and yeah. I think that was a famous story
that her dad, John Mills, turned it down, but then later on it
was Disney, kind of transpired it was Disney that vetoed the
project. Yeah, James Mason at one point
suggested his own daughter, which, if that's true, I just
can't even begin to. Yeah, that's that's.
A. Very interesting choice.
That might be, I don't know where I picked.
That I think, I think that's taking nepotism a wee bit far,
but. Yeah, yeah.
But anyway, so Sue Lion, I think Sue Lion is not a child actress.
I mean, obviously she is in this film technically, but brilliant
in the role, absolutely brilliant.
And not one of those annoying child actors that you have.
Oh no. She's.
She's very adult, very adult and very in in charge of the
situation as it were. Like he's very much umm again,
we'll do you know that. The fact that he's painting her
toenails and so far he's very subservient to Lolita, the sea
lion in the film. She's both knowing and innocent.
Yeah. Isn't she?
Yeah, because there's so many sort of looks that she gives
early on in the film where she knows, she knows damn well
what's going on in his head. Oh, yeah.
And there's then there's scenes where, for example, she finds
out her mother's dead. She's almost sort of crying out
with a. Girl, yeah.
It's it's a very brilliant, very, very well thought out
brilliant performance with someone so young.
Yeah, yeah. You know what I want more than
anything else in the world? Now what do you want?
I want you to be proud of me. But I am proud of you, Lolita.
Now, I mean really proud of me, you see.
They want me for the lead in the school play.
Isn't that fantastic? And I have to have a letter from
you giving your permission. Who want you?
Well, The Deuce of Gold, the drama teacher, Claire Quilty and
Vivian Darkblue. And who might they be?
They're the authors. They're here to supervise the
production. But you've never.
Acted before well, they say I have a unique and rare talent
and. How do they know that?
Well, we had readings and I was chosen over 30 other girls.
That's the first I've heard about it.
I know I wanted to surprise you. And I suppose that Roy has a
part in this production. Roy, what's he got to do with
this? Roy and Rex, naturally.
I suppose they're in it, huh? Well, how do I know?
I only met them yesterday. Besides, they're football
players, not actors. And you suddenly, overnight, are
an actress. Well, it's out of the question.
Out of the question. I don't want you in that
atmosphere. What atmosphere is just a school
play? I've told you over and over
again, I don't want you mixing with those boys.
It's just another excuse to make dates with them and to get
together close with them. You don't.
Love me. I do love you.
You don't love? Me, I do love you, Lolita.
Driving me crazy. We can.
We can talk about Shelly Winters is our other principal,
principal actor as Lo's mother. The widowed Charlotte Hayes.
Again, I find this part quite
interesting for Shelley Winters because again, she plays a very
similar part in Light of the Hunter where she is seduced.
Well, in a way she's seduced for the wrong reasons.
Whereas in Night of the Hunter, it's for money and then she's
killed. And then in this one, she's not
killed per SE, but she ends up dead for Humber.
Humber marries her for Lolita. She's a means to an end for
Humbert. Humbert, really.
She's a means to have access to Lolita.
I mean, it's Shelly Winters doing a very blousy.
It's a bit unkind, but I would say.
And anything in trousers type, you know, And she's very, she's
got intellectual pretensions and she's quite, yeah, she's quite
impressed by someone who can pull off the old posh chat and
knows as Rebel A from his Harold Robinson.
Oh, yeah, Yeah. Well, again, that's she, she
does that when she introduces him to house, you know, talks
about where we're good Anglo, Dutch, Anglo Scotch sort of
stock. But her character is I like all
things. This is a very black comedy,
very dark. And that's one of the
differences that Kubrick brings to it.
He makes this a very. Very dark comedy.
And I think that's one of her characters, kind of one of the
sort of best jokes in it because she sort of very much presents
this very prim proper, you know, it's it's a satire in Americana,
the world they kind of show in 1950s America.
And what she kind of does is, you know, presents this world,
but you know, her neighbors are swingers.
She's allowed not one, but two predators into our households.
It's it's interesting. And again, as I go things, I
find this a funny film, but it's not a funny film that you laugh
at because there's a joke of a punchline.
The punchline comes a lot later. Yeah, yeah.
Getting back to Roger Lewis again.
Our friend Roger Lewis. He describes Charlotte Hayes as
a suburban vulgarian in a leopard skin belt.
That's a yeah. That's a very Yeah, exactly.
Posh coat. Posh coat.
No, knickers is not another expression.
But also very needy. Extremely, extremely.
And again, you know, you know, there's you have that the
picture of the ex-husband very prominent.
So yeah, the shrine to him. You think, you think, you get
the impression right up until the the school dance, the
fallout from the school dance, you get the impression that
there's, there's that the relationship between Charlotte
Hayes and her daughter is, is very harmonious and loving.
But then it becomes very clear that she that Charlotte Hayes, I
won't go so far as to say she hates her daughter, but she's
resentful of her daughter. Yeah, yeah, she's.
Jealous of her daughter. Yeah, yeah, well, you get that
when you know, he discovers that she's gonna because she goes off
to camp Camp climax. It's.
A bit on the nose. Isn't it the sign says camp
climax Dr. carefully, but the fact she sends her the camp and
then she says and again, this is during a a scene where they're
in where they're in beds and they do.
It's very much implied that comfort can only get arised
while he's also looking at a picture of Lolita on the bed
stands. But in the conversation she goes
and she'll go to camp and then she's going straight to boarding
school. But what's interesting as well
is again, coming back to that sort of the Bulgarian, the idea
of this prim and proper household.
You know, she's going to move. She has a fantasy of moving a
French meal into Lolita's bedroom as a sort of, I guess,
sort of slightly implied menage Artois going on.
Yeah, I wondered about that. That seemed odd.
Yeah, yeah, that's a very interesting little, little
scene. But you are right.
There's there is this jealousy going on between.
But you also get that when she's chatting to Seller's character
at the dance, the Claire Quilty, when she's talking at him, he
doesn't respond. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah. And then finally, he only comes
to life when he goes, Oh yeah, you had a you had a little
daughter. You had a little daughter.
Well yeah, because Charlotte Hayes whispers into Claire
Quilters ear the the implication being that she reminds him that
they'd had sex the year before. Yeah, yeah.
And he remembers. And then he and then he
brightens up because he he, yeah, like, say he asks about
her daughter. Yeah, he, he, he doesn't care
until he goes like you had a little daughter.
Yeah. And she said yeah, Wednesday.
She's going to have a cavity filled by your uncle Ivor.
You kind of expect Sellers just to break the 4th wall and just
stare straight into the camera. Oh, it's certainly been a long
time. Certainly has, yes.
You know that I've been the local authority on you ever
since. Is that so?
Well, that's very sweet of you. Thank you so much.
I'll never forget that intellectually stimulating talk
that you gave to our club. Yes, magnificent club, Really
magnificent. Tell me one thing.
Are you a columnist? No, no, Don't you remember?
Well, that afternoon changed my whole life.
Well, how about that? You remember it.
Did I do that? Did I?
And afterwards, you know, I showed you my garden and I drove
you to the airport. Yes, really great.
Listen, listen. Didn't you, didn't you have a
daughter? Didn't you have a daughter with
a lovely name? Yeah, a lovely.
What was it now? A lovely lyric?
A lilting name like. Lolita.
That's right, Lolita, Diminutive
of Dolores, the tears and the roses.
Wednesday she's going to have a cavity filled by your Uncle
Ivor. Yeah.
That bit that that bit with the
high school dance is great with with Claire Quilty dancing with
Marianne Stone. Marianne Stone.
No how? OK, she's one of the few actors
that's in Kubrick and carry on. Yes, she is and she is in a
film. Let me this is a shameless plug.
Absolutely shameless plug. But this month's Goon Pod Film
Club is on the 1964 film. You may have heard of it, Hard
Day's Night. Yeah, with with the kinks.
Yeah, it was. I think it was often first
Spencer Davis group. They turned it down.
Oh, yeah, yeah, obviously, obviously.
Yeah, yeah. Then the swinging blue jeans.
They turned. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Obvious reasons. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then the Kinks said I'll All right then.
But she is in hard days, nights. She there's the the press
conference. Yes, yes.
And, and she's one of the journalists and she asks, we're
just joshing listeners. Obviously it's The Beatles.
She asks. She asks Ringo.
She asks Ringo, are you a mod or a rocker?
And he goes no or I'm a mocha. Yes.
Well. She's in I think I Counted on
IMDb. She's in Eight Over Films with
Peter Sellers. Yeah, yeah.
But she's never has a she never has a big role.
Yeah. I mean, strangely, this is our
biggest. Yeah, exactly.
This is our biggest role. But she doesn't say a line of
dialogue, does she? She plays this.
Yeah. Vivian Dark Bloom is the name of
the character. Yeah, that's that's an anagram
of Vladimir Nabokov. Yeah, she's never introduced.
She never has a line of dialogue.
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting.
I think she's only referred to during that, the police, the
hotel scene where he's talking about judo.
She's a yellow belt. I'm the Greenbelt.
That's the natural order of things.
She just, she's absolutely besotted with Quilty and she she
sort of hangs off and like kind of like a almost like a Yoko
owner character. I shouldn't say that, but yeah,
she she just stares at him and when he's talking to other
women. Yeah, yeah.
She turns her back. She never says a word.
Yeah. Well, actually the interesting.
Thing is, we're just as we're chatting about Marion Stone, one
of the films she appears in with Sellers is Heavens Above.
Yeah, and in Heavens Above, there is a scene in one of the
church scenes when the pulpit there's a child reading a copy
of Lolita. Oh, yes, I remember that now.
Yeah. And the the scene with her, with
Claire Quilty at the high school dance, dancing with her.
Cool as a nice Fonzarelli. I wrote down just just just the
coolest thing. And also we we find out don't
with that more the kind of all the girls are crazy about Claire
Quilty for some reason. Yeah, well, you guys say, you
know, Lolita has a poster of him on her wall again.
Also it's interesting that because they do change the
character in the in the novel, he's just a playwright, whereas
he he's ATV writer. And again, that's why why where
you get that shadow of the comfort character as well,
because he's is Humperd shadow and a more successful person as
well, which kind of a bit of jealousy going on.
But yeah, they're they are completely obsessed with.
And again, interestingly, because Sellers is not, you
know, mid 60s Sellers, he like the sex symbol he kind of
became. He's very much the sellers we
see is the sellers of the early 1960s British comedies in terms
of in terms of his look. You know, he even has his
trademark glasses on, which, yeah, his band, which I thought
was quite interesting because he rarely were those in in films,
but he he has them here. So yeah, as you said, he's
they're they're completely and utterly infatuated with him.
But it's the same way how they're always, they're all
interested in James Mason just because he's European.
I find in this film, like regardless of what he does,
there's a scene I find fascinating is the scene again,
it's what happens later on the movie where him and Lolita have
a massive argument and then someone comes to the neighbor,
comes to the door and says, oh, can you keep it down?
We've got, you know, we've got the local, local vicar over.
I think they wouldn't say vicar, but I think we have the local
priest over and she says the line.
We can hear everything you're saying.
And yet she still invites him, Ryan, to have a drink.
Also says that the neighbors have been talking.
Yeah, yeah. Exactly the the the story is
with you and your daughter. Yeah, but even then still invite
some Ryan, which again that that that that fascination.
I I find that interesting. It they they seem both
characters seem to attract people, but when you look at to
both characters, you wonder why. Yeah, yeah.
When out of spite, really, Charlotte Hayes packs a daughter
off to Ken Climax. And you have that scene where
Humbert's broken. He goes into her bedroom and he
buries his face in a pillow and cries.
And then the maid comes in and gives him a letter from.
At first I thought it was from the leader, but now it's.
It's from Charlotte. Hey, he's gone out for the
morning. And it's a, it's a confession
that she loves him and she asks him to leave because it just
won't work or she can't see it working, but.
And she doesn't want to see him again unless he loves her as
much as she does. And he stays and it's just that
bit where he starts laughing with James Mason, starts
laughing and the character just turns on a dime then.
I mean, we've seen glimpses. We've seen glimpses of of his
inner steel, of his inner. Yeah, a lot of a lot of anger.
A lot of anger Character, Yeah. But then, you know, time passes.
I don't know how many months, maybe a month or so, two months,
maybe not. But she's still at Camp Climax,
so it can only be about 6 weeks. Maybe.
But they're married, he and Charlotte Hayes, because James
Mason's doing the narration. He says the wedding was a quiet
affair. And when called upon to enjoy my
promotion from lodger to lover, did I experience any bitterness
and distaste? No, Mr. Humbert confesses to a
certain titillation of his vanity, to some faint
tenderness, even to a pattern of remorse daintily running along
the steel of his conspiratorial dagger.
And he's just contemptuous, barely conceals his contempt.
Well, yeah, but there's, there's a there's a scene where he he
explodes, like he gets very angry because she obviously is
trying to get him the bed. And he goes, what more do you
want from me? You know, I, I, I've done my
obligation. And again, the idea that sex is
an obligation with, with Charlotte is very interesting.
That's a scene of like, again, that's why I think Neeson is so
brilliant in this part. It's a scene of pure anger.
Like how dare you ask me to perform another sexual act with
you? Yeah.
He's like all things. He's a character.
He's a character that is almost like you see the thread undoing
in those scenes. Like he's just constantly the
threads are coming undone throughout.
Oh, I meant to say as well. It's never referred to in the
film, but there is in the novel. We come to understand that
Humbert Humbert is suffering from a certain amount of what I
would guess you would call Arrested Development.
Yeah, because he because he talks about how he fell in love
with a girl of a similar age to Lolita very early on, and then
she dies. Is it tuberculosis or?
Typhus, I think. Typhus.
That's it was one of the T's typhus.
And But then there's also, again, like all things, because
Kubrick does make a very black comedy, but the book's quite
humorous in itself. Sometimes Humber's character is
fun, like when he's talking about because he is married
before, Yeah. And the wife leaves him for a
Russian taxi driver. But then he makes up a story
that they moved to California and they took part in a study
which involved eating on all fours.
So it's a, it's quite a yeah in terms of visual imagery that I
find that quite, quite amusing. So it's quite a funny, funny
novel in itself. But but again, that kind of
comes back to the idea of him being a very untruthful
narrator. Yes, now we have the, we have
the same where because Charlotte, I think, I think
Charlotte Hayes is more or less in a permanent state of
drunkenness. Yes, yeah.
And she discovers this diary, or she she she see, she knows that
Humbert keeps a diary in they have an argument.
There were no, no, but really Trevor's Diaries.
So she finds out that he what he calls it in the diary, he refers
to her as that Haze woman. Yeah, that Haze woman.
Yeah. Obnoxious Mama.
And obviously he's written about the Nymphat Lolita and his
feelings to her and. Yeah, it's interesting you say
that, Tyler, because once he does that and he's put her that
state of alcohol, her being constantly drunk, what's the
first thing he does? Goes to fix her a drink.
Yeah, he goes run down the curves, the cocktail shaker.
Up, up the level, up, up. The level and well, you found
that novel I was writing, I just put, I put the names down as
placeholders. Placeholders, Yeah, it's, it's
odd that scene, isn't it? I mean, it's very well done,
that scene. It's also, it's also very
farcical as well, I find, because it is a very, it's a lot
of running around. Then he, he finds the gun that
she mentioned earlier that Mister he is kept before where
he was going to shoot himself before his illness took over,
but he ended up in the hospital. And then he goes to grab the
gun. And then he he sort of rehearses
this because he thinks she's in the bathtub and rehearses this
idea of how he's going to kill her, but then he doesn't and
then discovers that she's not in the bathtub at all.
Yeah, but that's what I mean. But Kubrick, so he's downstairs
making fixing her a dream. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, and. And Kubrick is so economical
here because the camera's sort of locked on, on Humbert in the
kitchen trying to get ice out of the ice tray, shouting about the
fact that it's a novel and it's. It's not meant to be taken
seriously. And then you hear the phone ring
and he answers the phone kind of absently, and he thinks it's a
crank call because. It's this man on the phone, says
Charlotte. You're dead.
Yes, so she's run from the house in some sort of hysteria.
I get drunk in hysteria and been hit, hit by a car and killed out
outright. And what I mean is the economy
of it is that, you know, any other director probably would
have filmed that scene of her. Yeah, as in she would have been.
Yeah, you're right, You're right, Tyler, like you would
think the focus would be on what is Charlotte going to do.
But the focus, the focus is on Humpard.
Humpard again, the scene afterwards, I think is because
he gets outside, he goes, sorry, Mr. ran over your wife got to go
see my dad just walks up and then later on he's in the
bathtub enjoying a drink. The two the two swingers show
back up the two neighbors to check on him and again he's just
like, oh, come in here. You know that she's she's all
shocked he's in the bath, which kind of amuses me from what
they've told us prior. Once again, for me, it brings
back the joke of, you know, this Anglo Dutch, Anglo Scotch sort
of prim and proper back. But I what I love is the the
father then shows up. He goes like, I'm very sorry,
but you know, we, we, we established it wasn't my son's
fault. It was it was the other
pedestrian, but like, and then he goes out.
The least I can do is pay for the funeral and not missing a
beat, James, Jason goes. Yes, that'd be very nice.
And the best bit is you can see the look in the guy's face of,
oh you, you weren't meant to accept the offer.
Oh, nerds. I think that's that's a little
nice little lovely minute, but a little bit of black comedy.
I really enjoy that little moment.
Yeah. And I wondered if there was a
remnant of the novel because there's a, there's a line in
that scene where it, it doesn't seem to make sense to me.
Or why was it necessary? Because the swingers come in and
they say, oh, she had a kidney problem.
She didn't, she didn't have long to live anyway.
But that's never referred to again.
So what was the purpose of that? Because it seems.
Kind of, yeah. I, I, I don't know, maybe it's
the adding to the joke that, you know, if he had murder, let's
say he had taken that gun, gone in, shot her three times.
He'd been found out. And then like later again, it is
kind of. Yeah, exactly.
It's if he shot her three times, then when he gets taken to
court, like, oh, she was, she was going to die anyway.
What did you, what did you do again?
It is it's interesting that she keeps that that secret from him.
I don't know. I think that's just to add to
the sort of very dark humor that they're going for.
You know, this idea that well, she's going to die almost like
it's a film that's not it's a horrible film to Shelley Winters
character in many ways, and I think that's almost like sort of
the icing on the cake. Well, she was going to die
anyway. I.
Believe I believe that Shelley Winters didn't particularly
enjoy working with Sellers to do with him but in the film, but
she found him rather baffling. Yeah, I think she said something
she found. She found Mason a cold fish, and
she said Sellers acted on a different planet, so she
couldn't. But again, yeah.
I mean, she only really has that one scene of them in the dance.
But then apparently Kubrick was going to fire her after four
days on set. Shelley Winters, apparently.
I've read that somewhere a while ago that she wasn't, it's
Kubrick wasn't a massive fan, but it's just in many ways I
can't really because of her star persona.
As I said, it's a very similar role to the one she plays in
Night of the Hunter, where you know, she's she's seduced by
Robert Mitchum because Robert Mitchum wants to find the goal
that the the the father of the two kids have has hidden away.
And again, it's quite similar that you have another bedroom
scene in that movie where it's their wedding nights and that
she attempts to have sex with Robert Mitchum's car down.
He explodes like how dare you ask me to I?
Remember that. Yeah, so it's it's interesting.
I find I, I feel like that's probably why she was cast in
this rule, because it's very similar to the rule she plays in
Knight of the Hunter. Again, they're not when she's
murdered, whereas this one she's nearly murdered, but but like
all things, she she dies by an accident.
But she could have been murdered or she could have died of
natural causes. She had three or three in terms
of how people, she had three options.
You're going to be dispatched. One way or another, yeah, this
character is going no matter what.
Yeah, when Humbert collects Lolita from Camp Climax, he he
lets on that Charlotte is ill and she's in hospital.
Yes. I don't, again, I don't quite,
no, I don't quite understand why he wouldn't just tell because
he's going to have to tell her at some point.
So why, why don't I just pull this the plaster off there and
then and tell her? But I don't think that
relationship is really at that point, you know, the kind of
consummation is at the hotel for want of a better word.
So I. Literally.
So I think, yeah, so I think that's maybe it.
He hasn't, you know, got fully what he wants just yet.
So holding off that bit of information because as we see,
because as we see litter, it does send her off the edge of we
bet she recovered. She recovers quite quickly.
But I think, you know, almost not not wanting to rock the
boat. I think that's the reason why he
doesn't bring it up. True, true.
So they, they turn up to this hotel for the night and the, the
Humbert story to Lolita is that they'll carry on the journey to
the hospital the following morning, but they have to put up
in a hotel and they, they're over this hotel and there's a
police convention going. So it's virtually booked out.
It's. An it's an interesting shot,
though, because it's because normally, like you say, if you
were doing like a comedy scene, you you'd show up at the hotel,
you have the conversation and then they go, what's the,
because he goes, what's the convention?
It goes. It's we have the overflow for
the annual police convention. And then I mean, for me, like a
normal setup in a comedy show would be that then you would see
the banner saying police convention, whereas throughout
the scene, police convention is right in the background for
right. So I thought that was quite
interesting in terms of like how Kubrick has set that up.
He hasn't done it like a traditional comic punchline
because we're that's true. And then you would then the
camera with Pan and there's all these police were everywhere.
Yeah. I just thought, I just thought
that was very interesting how he how he shot that scene.
He didn't go for the obvious comic setup.
And of course this is where we have the return of.
Yeah, yeah. Tell me something I couldn't
help noticing when you checked in tonight.
It's part of my job. I noticed human individuals and
I noticed your face. I said to myself When I saw you,
I said that's the guy was the most normal looking face I ever
saw in my life. Not a bit, not a bit.
It's great to see a normal face because I'm a normal guy.
It'd be great for two normal guys like us to get together and
talk about world events, you know, in a normal sort of way.
Well, there's nothing I would like better than that, but I I
don't have much time. Oh, it's a pity because may I
say one other thing to you? It was really on my mind.
I've been thinking about it quite a lot.
I noticed when you was checking in you had a lovely, Pretty
Little girl with you. She was really lovely.
I as a matter of fact, she wasn't so little kind of think
of it. She was a fairly tall little,
well, I mean taller than little, you know what I mean, But she
was really lovely. I wish I had a lovely, pretty,
tall, lovely little girl like that.
I mean. That's with my daughter.
Your daughter. Gee, isn't it great to have a
lovely tall, Pretty Little small daughter like that?
It's really wonderful. This is where in many ways he
takes on his new persona because he pretends he's a photographer
for the the event. But it's quite interesting that
we'll talk about this a bit later.
All these times he meets Claire Quilty but never clocks it's
Claire Quilty. Well, yeah, he see you have a
combat scene. Claire Quilty at this at the
school dance. Yeah.
I've seen him at the school, dice the posters, been on the
wall the whole time. We've even seen him go into the
room whenever, as the scene we mentioned earlier, when she goes
off the camp. But again, in the novel, it's
interesting because this novel does the same thing where again,
obviously we'll talk about when because he's got the play later
on, but that gets mentioned as well in the book where they
mentioned he actually for some reason, even though he's aware
of Claire Quilty, he then starts to think Claire Quilty as a
woman, he forgets that he's a male playwright.
And you kind of get this in the film as well where he meets him
on several occasions, but completely forgets who Claire
Quilty is. So I don't know if that's kind
of saying how some sort of self absorbed or how how much his
obsession is with Lolita that he completely and utterly forgets
about this other person who is constantly on his back.
I know some some reviewers were saying that Humbert Humbert
should have recognized that Doctor Zenf was Claire Quilty in
disguise. But I disagree because it's not
clearly. Obviously we know it's Sellers
because we don't Sellers, but it's.
But this is Claire Quilty is someone that Humbert has
glimpsed a few times. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But but I'm, you know, I'm not convinced that he would he would
know that that's Claire Quilty doing a comedy.
German psychologist. Yeah, yeah, but but it's more
the scene on the porch because all Claire Quilty does is have a
camera and takes his glasses off.
Yeah, but he tells us back to Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And I, I just think it's
fascinating because I think it is in many ways he is quite
obviously somebody's met before. But I think because he's so, as
I said, I think it's the way Kubrick kind of shows Humphardt
being so sort of focused on what he's doing.
He's not really. He doesn't really clock the
danger. Presumably his mind, all he's
thinking about is getting back upstairs.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. 1 great
interpretation I sort of, sort of look upon this is that when
you do have the character of Humphardt Humphardt and Claire
Quilty, they're kind of like, you know, the sort of unofficial
rules of comedy. You know, you even have a
character who's in on the joke or of character who is not in on
the joke. And I kind of feel that with
Humpert, Humpert and Claire Quilty, Humpert Humpert is the
one you laugh at, whereas Claire Quilty you laugh with.
And I, I feel like that's what Cooper kind of brings with these
two characters. You know, it's he's Claire
Quilty is in on the joke, which is why, as Roger Luce says, he
can kind of come in and create this comic mayhem.
And Mason is not aware of the joke, which is why I think their
dynamic works so well. The the very lengthy improvised
exchange on the veranda on the porch where Salus is coming
across, at times a bit like Woody Allen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I read the the chapter in the
book and it's a much shorter passage of dialogue.
Yeah, well, as I said as well, he's also just like he's a
character in The Shadow smoking the cigarettes.
Yeah, to the to the point you could question whether he's
there or not. He he maybe he's mistaken him
for someone else. It's one interpretation of the
novel you can have. Well, yeah, because Humbert's
out there. And then you have Quilty saying
from the shadows, where the devil did you get her?
This isn't the novel. Yeah, yeah.
Where the devil did you get her? I beg your pardon?
I said. The weather is getting better.
Yeah. Seems so who's the lassie?
My daughter, you lie. She's not.
I beg your pardon? I said July was hot.
Where's her mother? Dead.
I see. Sorry.
By the way, why don't you do lunch with me tomorrow?
That dreadful crowd will be gone by then.
We'll be gone too. Good night.
So that's that's that's it. Whereas with Sellers in the
film, it's he's babbling on about normal looking faces and
lovely, big, lovely big little girls, Yeah.
I see, I see you and your daughter.
You know, I actually said this. It's very, it's very Woody.
And I love New York this time of year.
Yeah, and by the way, one one of the lessons I learned from this
sequence of the film, All the best people shave twice a day.
Unless it's me. I've been here about four times.
All the best people shave twice a day.
Now I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to skip over the the
bit in the bedroom, but yeah, yeah.
But let's just say that we, we, we when they're back on the road
the following morning, Humbert Humbert seems much more laid
back and relaxed. OK.
Even even his outfits changed. He's in that open, open top
black shirt. Yeah, they eventually cut to
sort of six months later, and he's taken up his position at
Beardsley College. Here's the.
College. Forget about Charlotte, forget
about little. Yeah, it's almost like a film of
two. How you forget everything.
I've just told you already. This is a new.
It's a This is a new chapter. And this is I guess, like we
said before about having the the denouement of the the novel have
it at the beginning of the film because it kind of this is what
a bit where it sags. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Did you pick up on the fact that?
So he's obviously what he's obviously very jealous and very
controlling of later or wanting to be controlling of later
because she's at a new school, she's met new people, new
friends and he, Rex. Rex and Roy.
Latin and French for King, right?
Yeah. Interesting.
Yeah, Yeah. And but The thing is that they
were he because Humbert was driving around looking for her
and she was in the Frigid Queen. Yeah, the frigid queen.
With Rex and Roy. Let's all grab a malt at the
frigid Queen. Where are you?
Where are you guys going tonight?
We're going down to the frigid queen.
Did you pick up earlier on in the film when he's playing chess
with Charlotte? And he, he's obviously just
playing because he feels he has to, to be playing.
And, and he, he says the line. I'm going to take your queen
right at the moment that Lolita walks into the room.
Oh yes, yeah. As I said, like it's it's a film
with the pay, the play, the payback is the punchline comes a
lot later. Yeah, so here's the thing.
So people listening to this, I'm sure have seen the film or read
the novel, OK? But we find out at the end that
Lolita has been collaborating, if you like, or in cahoots with
Claire Quilty. From about what point?
But I'm assuming it comes, it comes at Beardsley College with
play. If it comes to the play, yeah,
the what's what's the play called?
The The Haunted Enchanters. That's right.
And I think the hotel they've stayed at was called the.
Enchanted hunters, I guess. Once.
Yeah.
Once again. The punch line comes later.
That's the punch line comes so much later.
The the point is that the the two of them are in cahoots
unbeknownst to us, the audience, and obviously at Humbert.
And so from this point on, Lalith is basically looking for
an opportunity to go off with with Claire Coty, and she is
instrumental in letting him into the house as Doctor Zemp so that
when Humbert gets home, he can have that scene with Doctor
Zemp. Where he sat, where he sat in
the dark. Yeah.
Like I like that's not the where you where you sat here.
But he's smoking Jerome cigarettes, of course, which are
the cigarettes that Quilty has been.
Yes, yes, yes. And that's a great, that's a
great scene, but. The best thing in that scene is
the where he goes. We, we're both, we, we, we
Americans. He's got a German accent.
He's European. Again, as I said, it's a film.
It's weirdly obsessed with nationality.
Again, just throwing back to the earlier scene where we get the
demise of Claire Quilty, which is the first scene.
You know, he goes like you're either an Australian or a
German. This is a gentiles house, could
be on your way. It's interesting how these
things keep coming. As I said earlier about the
Anglo Dutch, Anglo Scotch, And also, you know, how Humpard.
Humpard is not defined. He's just European.
He's not defined as being English, French, German.
Yeah. But I just, I just find that
very interesting little moment where he goes, we Americans.
Yeah, you can imagine him being a member of the extended
Strangelove family. Yeah, well, I, I, I, I really do
think he is very much like a almost a prototype for Doctor
Strangelove. Even there's even though even
the way he kind of fidgets, he has a little fidget at one point
where his body just just slightly gyrates.
And it just remind I because I, when I watched, rewatched it, I
thought like, that's interesting.
He just reminded me of Doctor Strangelove when we've been just
how he how he sort of contorted his body at one point during the
conversation. Absolutely where he just where
he just gets a little uncomfortable.
And Strangelove does that in his wheelchair, but he gets a little
uncomfortable. There's a very similar movement
he does. The Americans we are
progressively modern. We believe that this is equally
important to prepare the pupils for the mutually satisfactory
mating on the successful child rearing.
That is what we believe and. What do you suggest?
I am suggesting the doctor Cuddler, who is the district
psychologist to the Board of Education should visit you in
the home, meet a three member board of psychologists and once
they're in the home, they can investigate thoroughly in the
home situation with the old four of them.
The few other things I just want to mention before we get to the
the climax, if you like, which which we've already seen, but
colluding with Lolita, Claire Quilty at a distance follows
Humbert Humbert and Lolita as they they I don't know where the
where they're actually on their way to.
They're just driving around to try and get away.
Well, he he makes up that he's off the Hollywood to be the
consultant on a film about extensionalism, but we're never,
we're never actually told where they actually are about to go or
wherever he actually has any idea where to go at this.
Point Lolita ends up in hospital because she's got, she calls her
Asiatic flu, but she's got some sort of some something that that
means that she's going to be in hospital for a couple of nights.
Humbert is sort of fretful and he's staying at a local motel
and he visits her and is suspicious of everyone,
including the nurse who's Who's Lois Maxwell.
Yeah. And he sees there's a there's a
pair of dark glasses by Lily's bed.
And he says, why would a nurse wear sunglasses in a hospital?
And we assume later that they're quilties that he's left there.
And then when when he finds out a little bit later that she's
been discharged by her uncle, we find out that it's her Uncle
Gus. Uncle Gus, Yes, yes.
And of course, in the book, although never referred to in
the film explicitly, Humbert Humbert has a has an uncle,
Gustav Christav Trapp, who he believes Claire Quilty
resembles. A.
Little nod, I suppose, for for those who've read the book, you
know. Well, let's just say that she
has an uncle. Does she have an uncle?
Well, let's say she. Yes, she has an uncle.
So it's an interesting stage. While he's lying on the floor.
I forgot. How did you forget?
I just forgot. And, and at the as we have.
What is that three years later, three years past?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We assured that through
throughout this period, he's been looking for her.
Yeah. And he gets a letter finally.
I don't know how he gets the letter, but he gets the receipt
of a letter from her. She's she's married.
She's going to have a baby by this point.
She must be what, 17? And.
And he goes and, and I don't know what if he's going to shoot
her, shoot himself, but he takes a gun and begs her to go with
her. And she's married.
She's in this really rundown shack basically, and she's got a
very nice but uninspiring husband.
Yeah, yeah. For hearing aids, yeah.
Yeah, because she tells him. Yeah.
Yeah, she tells him. Obviously, she, she reveals that
it was Claire Courtier all the time under all those guises.
She She'd had a crush on him ever since he visited her mother
and he added he he was a genius with a beautiful Japanese
oriental philosophy of life and. Then he gets rid of her because
she won't appear in a in a blue movie with a couple of his
friends. So again, it is those things
where, you know, in terms of as as as I sort of said earlier
about the idea of two predators, they kind of whereas Humper
Humper sort of kind of made to be like the romantic, whereas
Claire Quilty is more sort of the mechanical.
You know, the the moment you say no, we'll off you go that we're
done here. Obviously a man who's not used
to people saying no to him. A.
Bit like Donald Trump. Donald Quilty.
After he discharged her from hospital, Claire Quilty took her
to a dude ranch in Santa Fe. She but she said it was full of
weirdos, painters, nudists, writers, weight lifters.
And he tried to convince her. He tried to get her to take part
in an art movie. She refused.
He kicked her out and she ends up where she is and and Humbert
ends up in tears, absolutely shuddering.
Oh, yeah, He's a destroyed, destroyed man at that point,
yeah. He gives her $13,000 more or
less. Yeah, she's off to Alaska.
And again, as we were saying about the husband, the husband
is actually 5th build in the movie, but only has those two
minutes of screen time. Gary Cockrell, it is quite sad
because then he makes a comment that, you know, we sleep
downstairs so she won't can watch the television.
She's a bit like she's she's just almost wasted in many ways.
I mean, she's she's quite young. So we don't we don't really
know. Well, the novel does give us a
finale, but the film doesn't. It's, it's it, right?
To me, it's like she's got over her obsession with being with
sophisticated men in the world. Yeah, in the space of
three-year. Yeah, in the space.
Of three years, yeah. And now she just wants
simplicity. And she's got.
Yeah, yeah. Again, you're not sure if that's
you should be happy or sad for that.
I don't know. Like she's found contentment,
but then like sort of her ambition is kind of gone at such
a young age. Well, it was just a robbing of
innocence in many ways. Yeah.
And then yes, if the film ends with where we came in.
Where we came in Quilt in Clare quilt in.
And, and there's that kind of clumsy, you know, it's kind of
like Humbert. Humbert died on the way back to
his home planet at the end. Well, it didn't say that, but
it's, it's, it's Humbert Hubbard died of coronary thrombosis.
It was 4. Years later.
Awaiting trial for the murder of Claire Coulter.
Yeah, that's it. It's a very, it's very odd.
Yeah, it's very odd decisions, but they do it over the image of
the the the portrait that he shot Claire Quilty through,
which I find interestingly choose that picture because she
reminds me of the Gainsborough lady.
And obviously that's how Mason starts his career in
Gainsborough. Yeah, melodrama.
So I always thought that was a really, again, obviously that
scene we have Sellers going, you know, he goes no, Oh no, I'm
Spartacus. So if you come to freed the
slaves, interesting in that little scene, you just have
these little meta moments of reference to Kubrick and a
reference to Mason's early career.
I mean, obviously the Spartacus reference is intentional, but
I'm not too sure about the portrait.
But it's quite interesting. Now, the bit where you say about
Claire Quartey sort of pushed themselves behind.
He's been shot several times and he pushes himself behind a pet.
He's going on about electric chairs being painted.
Which is which is from the Nabokov, not those lines.
And what's which is interesting about Sellers improvisation he
does he does still keep some of the dialogue in and that is what
that is what Claire Clippy says before he is Kelly.
I said I even got executions. I got some nice friends, you
know, who could come and keep it coming in here.
You could use them as pieces of furniture.
This one guy looks just like a bookcase I could fix for you to.
The 10 executions, how would you like that?
Just you then, nobody else just watching.
Watch. You like watching cats?
No, because not many people know that that the chair is painted
yellow. You'd be the only guy in the
know. Imagine your friends.
You could tell them. But he's behind the painting, so
we don't actually see, I guess because of sensitivity.
Sensitivity. At the.
Time so we don't see him being shot in the head because in the
novel, I understand from speed reading the end of it, he kind
of hit shot in the head. But.
He kind of manages somehow to cling on to life.
So in the book, and I'll just quickly summarise this.
So once he's shot, Humbert Humbert waits for quite some
time to check that he is dead. And and then he hears like this
hubbub of voices in another room.
And and these people have arrived for a party and they're
fixing themselves drinks and all sorts.
And Humbert Humbert walks in and out, announces he's killed their
quilty. And one guest says good for you.
And and a fat man says somebody ought to have done it a long
time ago. And and it's only then in like
this last effortful heave that Claire Quilty somehow manages to
drag himself onto the landing flaps around a bit and then and
then finally dies. And it's that point the Humbert
leaves and he's trailed by police cars.
And then I don't quite get this. It's because it's it's quite,
there's an Abacoff using quite Florida imagery and language,
but but somehow Humbert goes for a wander through the countryside
and the book ends with him right in the closing paragraphs from a
prison cell and requesting that the memoir memoir not be
published until both he and Lolita are dead.
So obviously the book is published in 55 and we come to
understand that Lolita died giving birth in 1952.
So there we are. So But yeah, the ending of the
film is very much, you know, I, I, I, I was a little bit
disappointed by the way. It was just ended quite abruptly
like that. Yeah, exactly those two as well.
Like I find cards like that aren't really necessary unless
you're doing a biopic. Yeah.
It's again, you know, so and so went on to do this.
They want to do that. I find it very odd when films,
when fiction films decide to give us like some sort of we we
we can sort of like you could have done that with, you know,
you could have had obviously in Kubrick's version, the party's
already been and gone and you could have just literally just
had, you know, the shooting. And then even like even it's the
sign of a siren or something like that to imply or or voices
over the portrait is just as you said, that little Poochie
ending. He went back to his home partner
and died. But interestingly, to throw a
little so that the the hoist that they the exterior for that
hoist. I can't remember what the house
is called, but it's the same house that's used in Little
Britain for the Scottish hotel sketch in the first season.
It is the lemon cake, lemon cake, lemon cake.
Have you any nuts? Lemon cake house, No nuts.
So that's that's the same house. Oh, that's amazing.
Those look. Great, don't they?
Kimberly I. Want the chocolate cake?
OK. Honey Kimberly has a nut
allergy. Do you know if there are any
nuts in it? Yes, What do you mean?
Yes, there are nuts. Or yes, you know.
There's just one other thing I wanted to mention before we wrap
up. So at the beginning where
Humbert is confronting Claire Quilty at one point quite early
on, Quilty, I don't know whether he genuinely doesn't recognise
Humbert. Humbert, I suspect he doesn't,
He genuinely doesn't recognise him.
But he says, are you Jack Brewster?
Yeah. Now and then Jack Brewster is
never referred to again in the film.
It's an odd thing for we we never come up come to find who
who Jack Brewster is. But apparently, if you remember
the scene where the play the school play has taken place and
you have Humbert angrily dragging Lolita home because
he's found out she's not been going to piano lessons, and you
see Claire Quilty with, what's her name, Vivian.
Vivian Yeah, and then the other chap, the bald fellow in
glasses. Yeah, yeah.
That's, that's the producer, James B Harris, Kubrick's part.
Ah, yes, OK. And the character, although he's
never named, is Jack Brewster. Right.
OK, so I'm guessing there must be maybe some deleted footage
where that's kind of where that's established that, umm,
that's Jack. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know that
was James B Harrison Nazi. Interesting.
So there. So have you got anything else
you wanted to throw into the conversation?
Again, just in terms of what's quite interesting is, umm,
there's actually a book being released this year.
Let me just find the title of it for you.
It's called The Magic Eye, the cinema Stanley Kubrick.
And basically it was meant to be released in 1970, but Kubrick
vetoed its release. So it's now being released this
year, 25 years after Kubrick's death.
And the reason that KUB busy Kubrick had the right to veto if
he there was something he didn't like about the book.
And he claimed that the book, and this was like the first book
written with a critical overview of Kubrick's work.
And he vetoed the book. It's written by a guy called
Neil Hornick. And he vetoed the book because
he said it was far too critical of his work.
But according to Neil Hornick, the only criticism was at his
adaptation of Lolita and that he felt that he was being far too
soft on the adaptation, changing the age from 12 to 14.
So according to Neil Hornick, but his book that didn't get
published for I mean 25 years after Kubrick's death, 1970, 55
years. This book has been banned for 55
years because he had a slight criticism of Lolita.
For the wrong reasons as well. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
So I just thought that was, I just, I remember that just came
up recently and I thought that was quite interesting because
according to Hornick, that's the only criticism in the book he
gives. But Kubrick went no, no, no,
you're not. You're not releasing this.
See something else that Kubrick and Sellers had in common?
Quite thin skinned. But again, it was also
interesting is Kubrick himself said a few years later, once
sort of the Hayes code disappeared, because again, this
is very much a film that, you know, certain things can't be
shown. And so for that wire in the
novel, what's interesting is that Kubrick does say quite a
few years later that if it weren't for the Hayes code, I
probably would not have needed this film.
It's the restrictions, a bit like Hitchcock.
It's the restrictions. It's the things they're not
allowed to do that they then have to be a lot more clever
about. Yeah, yeah, it it imposes great
creativity on the on the filmmaker.
Yeah, exactly. And, and again, you can see that
Adrian Lynn's adaptation, you know it, you know, he Kubrick,
you know what does no sort of Humper.
Humper is more a victim, but I think that's more to do with
how, you know, Fatal Attraction and stuff like that.
That tends to be how its protagonists are.
Even if they do horrible things, they're still the victim.
You know, Michael Douglas's character is the one that has
the affair but is a victim. So yeah.
So, yeah, again, I think that's the art of Kubrick.
Kubrick you can rewatch because you could watch any of his
movies from a different angle. Like, that's that's why.
And that's why Kubrick still, you know, still a rhyme to this
day. I think he's you.
You can always it like, like Dickens.
There's just so many ways you can interpret his work.
Yeah, I, I, I, I think my favorite of his is Berry Linden.
Beautiful, Beautiful to look at, Yeah.
But equally just, it's such a epic tale and it's just so much
going on and. Your lead character is not a
particularly strong leading character.
Like, he's not. He's not a traditional romantic
leading things happen to him as opposed to him creating things,
the things. He's not in control of his own
narratives. In a way, Humper doesn't really
control his narrative here either.
That's true. He's manipulated.
Actually now I think I'm just thinking that actually I think
my favorite cubic film was probably Paths of Glory.
Perry. London with with this and
Strangelove. Full Metal Jacket for me,
because I remember watching full, I remember watching Full
Metal Jacket when I was playing rugby and I remember we were on
a bus with ATV and this was like this big deal for us.
Like there's ATV on this bus. Why?
And they're like, what plays DVDs?
What DVDs you got Full Metal Jacket?
So the bus driver frozen on and like the first half, you know,
first the early Emery, but you know, like you could suck at a
golf ball through ball, garden holes and all this.
We thought this the funniest. So I was always my first memory
of Kubrick. So I always go full metal jacket
watching going to a rugby match. Thirteen years old on the bus
watching full metal jackets. Jesus.
OK, Well, Patrick, listen. It's been a sprawling
conversation. Certainly as so.
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me back,
Taylor. And I thank you, thank you so
much for coming. You're clearly someone who loves
you cinema and I'd love to get you back again to talk about
another film in the future. Well, I was going to I was going
to propose like an idea being I've recently watched Lovesick
and Unfaithfully Yours, the two films that Sellers was meant to
do prior to his death. I thought like maybe it's a
concept for an episode being like the things that either
they'd filmed scenes for that were cut out or projects that
they were sort of muted for, like Sellers see commands
Milligan. There's a as a concept for an
episode. That's intriguing.
The films that Sellers turned away or the films that Sellers
died? Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The ones, the ones the yeah. Ever died or films some scenes
that never made? The same way Milligan filmed the
scene for The Devils, the Ken Russell film which was cut out
because he walked in being all Goonish with all.
But I see this and the same way. He's meant to be an asylum, but
he apparently didn't show up for the first day of filming.
It's Jeffrey Belden. Yeah, Jeffrey Belden character.
So yeah, I was going to propose that as an idea.
Yeah. The things that they were meant,
they were muted for again, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory,
both Milligan and Sellers. So again, not not so much
focused on a particular film, but the projects that they were
sort of muted to be in or maybe filmed some footage and then
never came to be. That'll take some research, but
it. Would certainly would.
That sounds a lot of fun. OK.
We'll, we'll, we'll earmark that for next year sometime.
Brilliant. Thanks again mate.
No worries Tyler, all the best the.