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Hello and welcome to Goon Pod. 
This is the show that examines 

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classic comedy through the prism
of Sellers, Milligan, Secum and 

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so on and such like. 
Now last week we were talking 

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about the Mighty Wurlitzer and 
sticking with piano type things.

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Well, what is a Wurlitzer? 
All good if not a piano with 

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pretensions. 
This week I'm joined by 

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composer, performer and 
broadcaster Neil Brand who has 

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become the go to guy for piano 
accompaniment to silent films 

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and is something of an expert on
the on the genre. 

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If you want to call silent films
a genre in in in and of 

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themselves, silent cinema or 
early cinema shall we say. 

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Neil's a big fan of the Goons 
and he was happy to join me to 

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talk about the show with 
particular focus on the music. 

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So Ray Allington Mix Galdre, 
Angela Morley, George Chisholm 

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and and so on. 
And Neil proved very 

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knowledgeable about the show and
also shared some insights into 

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his career. 
Plus, there's a lovely story 

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about him accidentally meeting 
someone who listens to this show

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should be quite familiar with. 
Yes, stick around for that. 

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And after our conversation right
at the end of this show, I'll be

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sharing some list of feedback 
and comments. 

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Anyway, here's Neil. 
Radio comedy has been central to

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me most of my life. 
I was listening to The Goons 

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when I was 7 and I love all of 
that kind of retro stuff, but 

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The Goons particularly 
fascinated me and I was really 

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interested. 
I am really interested in Max 

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Geldray and Ray Ellington too, 
and the way that music informs 

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so much of the shows. 
And looking into it a bit for 

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this podcast too. 
I've been finding out 

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fascinating things that I really
didn't know, like that Angela 

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Morley ended up doing a whole 
load of arrangement stuff for 

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John Williams. 
I think that Star Wars. 

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Brilliant. 
Yeah, Schindler's List. 

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And yeah, you know, I mean, 
like, wow. 

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One of the first ATV idents as 
well. 

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I I really think she is up there
with the greatest of The MGM 

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arrangers because particularly 
working on a kind of week by 

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week basis, I think that's 
extraordinary that what she was 

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able to produce for the band 
breaks, particularly with Max 

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Gildray, are full of that kind 
of playfulness that they managed

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to get into films like Singing 
in the Rain and American in 

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Paris, where the accompaniment 
is playing Footsie with the main

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instrument. 
You hear this with Max Gildray's

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stuff a lot that he's playing, 
obviously, you know, a fairly 

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kind of rococo version of the 
melody. 

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He's doing lots of interesting 
twiddles and stuff like that. 

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But the music behind the way 
that Angela Morley has written 

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the arrangement is that it's 
moving in and out of different 

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chords. 
It's going all over the place. 

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It's sometimes it's there and 
then it suddenly comes in out of

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nowhere. 
I love it. 

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I just think it's such an 
incredible ability there. 

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And also that the actual 
composed music for the Goon 

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shows, even Spike said the music
was really, really good. 

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You know, Spike couldn't praise 
an awful lot, but he didn't 

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really praise that and really 
got Angela, I think. 

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Yeah, he he said a lot of it was
like epic Hollywood film music. 

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A. 
Lot of it. 

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Totally, totally. 
The other thing about Spike, of 

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course, was that, you know, 
when, when he was on form or in 

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the, in the right place, shall 
we say, that he would deliver 

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scripts ahead of time, give 
Angela a week's warning or at 

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least the week's preparation to,
to prepare arrangements and 

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whatnot. 
But sometimes it will be. 

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The script would be coming in on
the day of recording and it 

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would have to be like rapid fire
arrangements put together in 

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musical cues, you know? 
Yeah, totally. 

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And one assumes these were cues 
that she was re reusing and they

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were cues that already existed. 
But I remember him going into 

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some detail about he wanted a 
really rubbish national anthem 

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for some country or other. 
And that what she produced was 

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this fantastic, sort of gorgeous
piece of work which he then set 

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about dismantling as much as 
possible. 

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So that what we ended up with 
was a distressed version of it 

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where the tune was handed from 
one instrument to the next 

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almost on a change of a bar. 
And you know, the the the result

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of that is just hilarious. 
That that's such a memorable 

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national anthem. 
And it's, it's it's for the 

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country of Yakubaku, actually. 
There you go. 

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And that almost, OK, the all the
effort and and blood and sweat 

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and tears that went into 
preparing that anthem. 

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It almost didn't get broadcast 
because. 

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Yeah. 
Because it was for a goon shake 

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called the The Sleeping Prince. 
Oh, from the 7th series and it 

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was due to go out sometime in 
1956, but the broadcast 

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coincided or the the expected 
broadcast coincided with the 

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Hungarian uprising? 
Oh my, good. 

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God and the BBC in the wisdom 
thought, well, it's a bit 

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because of the, the content of 
the which is the, the, the 

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show's basically about an 
uprising, political uprising in 

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South America, though. 
But anyway, the BBC in their 

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wisdom, they decided to shelve 
the show. 

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So it was replaced with a repeat
of the Greenslade story, I 

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think. 
But it did, it did eventually go

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out, I think maybe six months 
later or something like that. 

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Wow. 
I love you. 

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If I remember rightly, the gag 
at the end of it is what a 

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beautiful tune. 
Has anybody tried to set it to 

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music? 
And I think grip pipe says 

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nobody's dead. 
Nobody's had the courage. 

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Nobody's had the courage. 
That was it. 

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So spot on. 
You can hear the musicians keep 

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killing themselves laughing 
through so much of the shows as 

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well. 
Oh yeah. 

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It's, it's, it's a real pleasure
because you know when a band's 

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having a good time, you're home 
safe, you know, because bands 

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can turn on a sixpence if 
they're in a situation they 

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don't like much. 
Well, if you listen to the play 

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outs of the Goon show, you'd 
have Bottas Greenstate reading 

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the credits and then there'd be 
sort of play out music which was

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basically useful for. 
So the BBC could fade that out 

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or keep it playing depending on 
if they needed the time or not, 

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you know. 
But very often you could hear 

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the band, what's the word, 
cheering or laughing or jeering 

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or or making encouraging noises,
and you think what's going on on

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the stage, you know, Spike doing
something is Peter on the bongos

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or whatever, you know? 
Yeah, I think it's obviously 

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there's a lot of solo stuff goes
on during that as well. 

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I can and you can start to hear 
individual members being 

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referred to in the program. 
There's a point where Spike says

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something about Pogson, Poggy, 
Pogson, Poggy Pogson, who I 

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think was a sax player. 
Yeah. 

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And he was always the one who 
had to kind of lead with, you 

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know, a sort of an up tempo 
March of blood, not was marching

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off somewhere or something like 
that, some of that sort of 

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thing. 
And George Chisholm. 

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I actually ended up seeing 
George Chisholm in a a, a sort 

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of, not exactly a big band, but 
in a band line up with Humphrey 

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Littleton. 
Oh, wow, He was still farting 

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around. 
Very, very funny. 

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And he'd do it, you know, he'd 
do a huge trombone solo and then

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work up to just the final, a 
couple of notes. 

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And then he'd the slide would 
come away from the trombone 

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altogether that he'd be standing
holding the two bits. 

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And I just think, I remember 
thinking, oh, I bet he did that 

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on the Goon show. 
You know, it's a great visual 

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gag that his solo is so huge 
he's actually broken his 

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trombone. 
He had a few speaking roles in 

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the actual Goon Show. 
Indeed, usually as a Scotsman 

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with the most enormous accent. 
See, think with him, yeah, he 

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was always playing a Scotsman 
because I think he only had the 

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one voice he could do, but yeah.
Absolutely. 

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But the the they didn't what 
they would do generally with 

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Scottish characters who were 
generally voiced by Peter. 

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Yeah, I don't know if you 
remember this. 

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Whenever the Peter was doing a 
Scotsman, almost always there'd 

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be the sound of bagpipes 
accompanying his his dial. 

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Varying speeds, Yeah, 
absolutely. 

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Oh. 
Doctor. 

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You're lucky to be alive man. 
Why? 

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That's right. 
That kill you 3 times. 

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You're just saying that to cheer
me up. 

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It's only what happened to 
bloodlock. 

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An echo and absolutely nothing. 
And Poggy Pogson, he kind of had

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a role, an actual role in a goon
show in the sense that he he 

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played a sound effect in a in a 
show called for OG, which 

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basically Poggy was was playing 
the part of the fog in an 

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episode, if that, if that makes 
sense. 

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But you, you, I mean you must 
have been far too young to have 

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heard the goons really. 
Original transmission. 

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I was I did hear the last goon 
show of all as it went out all. 

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Right. 
And I don't know how I managed 

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to hear the goons, unless they 
were being repeated a lot on the

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radio, which they might have 
been in the late 60s, early 70s.

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That's when I would have heard 
what I did hear of the Goons and

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I think there might have been a 
couple of records that ended up 

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on our record player. 
I might have heard them on there

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as well. 
Well, there's a there's a series

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that there was a series of 
repeats in 75 which were 

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promoted quite heavily because 
it hadn't. 

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There wasn't really that many 
repeats of the gun show in the 

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60s at all. 
No, and I don't know what it I 

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don't know how it was. 
I was so keen to hear the last 

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Gun show of all except I, I must
have come across it somewhere. 

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And the other thing was around 
that sort of time, maybe mid to 

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late 70s, they then started 
publishing the Goong Sheung Show

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scripts and I snapped them all 
up. 

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I remember I got all of those 
books when they came out and I, 

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I was just fascinated by it. 
I I think Milligan was my kind 

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of spirit animal through my 
school time and that may it 

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certainly started with the 
goons, but the real big thing at

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the time, which was sort of huge
when I was at grammar school 71 

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to 76 kind of thing was the Army
memoirs. 

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Oh yeah. 
I was reading those and really 

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sort of, you know, I, I was, I 
just wanted to anything, that 

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anything he'd done, anything 
that that Meningen had done, I 

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wanted to hear it, wanted to see
it, wanted to be involved. 

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And so somewhere along the line,
the goon started all that off. 

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And then it just turned into, 
you know, a kind of a massive 

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fire really, which informed all 
of my youth. 

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It was just lovely to escape 
into it. 

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Aside from anything else, I 
just. 

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Really, really enjoyed it. 
The people have said about the 

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Goon Show that it's like jazz 
comedy. 

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00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,160
Yeah. 
And. 

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And all three, if you if you 
exclude benting because he 

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wasn't, he was there at the 
beginning, but, you know. 

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00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,760
Yeah, Yeah. 
But all three of them were 

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musical in their own way. 
Of the Spike obviously played 

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00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,520
the trumpet. 
Yeah. 

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00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,520
And the guitar. 
Yeah. 

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00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:26,000
Yeah. 
Salas had been a drummer. 

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Yep. 
And. 

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He was absolutely the world's 
worst pianist as. 

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Well, oh, he was. 
Lest we forget. 

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00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,440
And, and Seek, of course, had 
had the pipes, if you know what 

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00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:41,120
I mean. 
Yeah, I I guess the fact that 

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they were musical in, in and of 
themselves helped them to 

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00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,640
identify with and and relate to 
the band and, and to Ray 

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00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,360
Ellington and. 
Absolutely. 

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00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,440
And I, I remember, I mean 
Secombe saying that the lovely 

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00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,160
thing about the music that was 
played was all toe tapping 

213
00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,520
stuff. 
So it was very kind of exciting.

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00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,280
You sort of between the shut, 
between the sort of the script 

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00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,240
moments, it was still all that 
energy was still being kind of 

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00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,840
kept up in the air by the the 
music being so sort of foot 

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00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,280
tapping and enjoyable and all 
classics as well, all stuff that

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00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,280
people knew. 
And I can see that absolutely. 

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00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,600
It makes total sense. 
And I used to do this. 

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00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,160
I don't know. 
You wouldn't have, I'm sure, but

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00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:31,720
I was, I was about 14 in 1988 
and by by pure happenstance, I 

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00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,240
heard it a goon show being 
played on the radio and was 

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00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,680
hooked. 
Just, it's never happened to me 

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00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:44,320
again with just exposure to one 
single television program or 

225
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,000
radio program or whatever. 
Just had me absolutely hooked 

226
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,560
and I just wanted to immerse 
myself on that world. 

227
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:54,440
OK, and but so I, so I used to 
luckily because I grew up in in 

228
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:59,040
New Zealand, luckily they played
goon shows every week back back 

229
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,640
then and and I every week would 
would tape the goons. 

230
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,840
But heresy, Neil, I would 
generally back in those days, I 

231
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,080
would Fast forward through Max 
and Ray's numbers. 

232
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:16,880
Well, a lot of people said that.
I think it's because I think 

233
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,240
bottom line, Max and Ray weren't
mad enough for your average Goon

234
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,520
fan. 
They would be playing music 

235
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,440
pretty much straight and it was 
great music and it was lovely 

236
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,960
stuff. 
But it's the one bit of the 

237
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:36,080
shows that has curiously aged 
worse than the scripts, simply 

238
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,160
because people don't listen to 
that kind of music much anymore.

239
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,640
I think it's a real shame. 
I mean, Max Gildray was an 

240
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:47,040
absolute bloody artist. 
My God, what he could do with 

241
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,320
the harmonica and the stuff he 
could get out of it. 

242
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,960
The speed of it, the way that he
could make it fly above an 

243
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,720
orchestra, you know, it was just
wonderful, wonderful, wonderful,

244
00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:57,790
wonderful stuff. 
None. 

245
00:17:06,140 --> 00:17:11,740
And I think ultimately the whole
show would have failed without 

246
00:17:11,740 --> 00:17:15,619
those pieces because the play 
fact is, and I bet if Milligan 

247
00:17:15,619 --> 00:17:17,900
had been left to try and find 
something musical to go in 

248
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:22,780
there, it would all have turned 
into AQ5 or Q6 or Q7 where there

249
00:17:22,780 --> 00:17:25,900
wouldn't have been a chance for 
a kind of breather. 

250
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,480
And that's what those pieces do.
And I think 2 Breathers is good 

251
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:30,640
as well. 
It means they have to do a three

252
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,160
act structure for the script 
because they know there's going 

253
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,800
to be two breaks. 
Makes things a lot easier to 

254
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,080
kind of just fill in that time. 
I mean, I know it nearly killed 

255
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:44,920
Milligan doing these scripts, 
but it was it, you know, for 1/2

256
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:49,000
hour comedy show, he was only 
really having to produce about 

257
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,480
15 minutes of script at the end 
of the day because of these 

258
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,000
extras that they were throwing 
in. 

259
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,760
And I think that does make a big
difference that he's he's 

260
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,240
basically going, OK, here's the 
start of the story. 

261
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:01,960
Here's the middle of the story, 
here's the end of the story. 

262
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,960
And usually the end of the story
is, is up there alongside his 

263
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,480
later sort of Q version of what 
do we do now? 

264
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,880
What do we do now? 
What do we do now? 

265
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:15,600
Well, he just runs out of ideas.
Another another trick he had was

266
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:19,720
to usually with the characters 
of Minnie and Henry, he'd have 

267
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,240
an endless flights of stairs 
being descended or ascended. 

268
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:28,080
Yeah. 
So footsteps for about 90 

269
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,840
seconds. 
And then Min saying, But we live

270
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,240
in a bungalow. 
Yeah, or on one occasion, she 

271
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,200
said to Henry. 
A scriptwriter named Spike 

272
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,120
Milligan paid me £5 to take my 
time take my time walking down 

273
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:44,920
these stairs. 
That's. 

274
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,760
Fantastic. 
John Lennon, right? 

275
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,720
So John Lennon was a huge Goons 
fan. 

276
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,400
Well, they all were in that 
band, but John, John 

277
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,520
particularly so. 
I think he's gone on record it, 

278
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,960
but you know how contrary and 
contradictory he could be. 

279
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,800
I mean, he wrote a review for 
the New York, was it The New 

280
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,360
Yorker or New York Times? 
He wrote a book review of the 

281
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:12,680
first Goon show scripts. 
Didn't know that, good old. 

282
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,960
But he's he's gone on record, I 
think, saying that he he kind of

283
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,600
drifted away from the Goon show 
around 56, which kind of makes 

284
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,600
sense, I suppose, if he was 
focusing on the music around, 

285
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,960
you know, after that. 
But but he if if that's the 

286
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,600
case, if he was an avid list 
that prior to that up to that 

287
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,160
point, he would have probably 
heard shake, rattle and roll for

288
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,400
the first time. 
On. 

289
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,800
The Goon Show. 
Ray Ellington did it. 

290
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,400
I want to say there'll be people
shouting at this because they 

291
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,080
know better than me, but I want 
to say within weeks of it being 

292
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:49,680
released, maybe in the States, 
I'm not sure. 

293
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,120
I don't even have been 
officially released in the in 

294
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:54,520
the UK by the time Ray did it. 
I'm not sure. 

295
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,920
That's I'm saying that's all too
possible. 

296
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,760
What I'm sort of gleaning from 
Ray Ellington, you listen to him

297
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,760
through the whole kind of 
period, the nine years or So. 

298
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,760
What you hear is him, for a 
start, bringing an electric 

299
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,680
guitarist. 
Which was pretty unusual for a 

300
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,080
jazz band at the time. 
There was a slight sense with 

301
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,720
jazz that, you know, if you 
didn't have a proper nylon 

302
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,880
guitar doing jazz riffs, you 
weren't a proper jazz band. 

303
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,800
Whereas he basically goes right,
we're electric. 

304
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:26,720
And then after that he's 
blurring the line between jazz 

305
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,920
and rock'n'roll time and time 
and time again. 

306
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,800
And there's several of his 
numbers which are absolutely 

307
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:33,920
rock'n'roll. 
Couple of them. 

308
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:38,080
He's basically either written 
himself or was commissioned for 

309
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,480
for his band, so to hear 
something like Shake, Rattle and

310
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,400
Roll come along, he would want 
to be part of that. 

311
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,560
He'd want to see that as his 
possible USP to move into a 

312
00:20:48,560 --> 00:21:19,800
whole new area. 
I like this. 3rd program stuff 

313
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,080
is nice. 
I'm like a one eyed cat peeping 

314
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:28,120
in a seafood store. 
I'm like a one eyed cat beeping 

315
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:32,840
in the seafood store. 
Yes, I can look at you tell you 

316
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,960
don't love me anymore. 
I believe you're doing me wrong 

317
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:43,000
and I know yes, I. 
Believe you're doing me wrong 

318
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,880
and. 
I know well, the more I work and

319
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,720
the faster my money goes. 
And of course, the other 

320
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,120
brilliant link with with all of 
this to do with John Lennon and 

321
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:01,000
to do with the goons is George 
Martin, because George Martin 

322
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,080
was the producer of the Peter 
Sellers albums. 

323
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,680
And I'm told that Emily, what it
was was that The Beatles were 

324
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:13,000
offered a series of names of 
producers at EMI when they first

325
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,240
signed with them. 
And they were going through the 

326
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,680
list and John Lennon went, oh, 
George Martin. 

327
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,760
He did Peter Sellers, and that's
why they ended up with George 

328
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,640
Martin. 
So there was without doubt there

329
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:28,920
was a real link there between 
the fact that Lennon did like 

330
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,480
the goose but particularly like 
Peter Sellers and the Peter 

331
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,480
Sellers albums, and the fact 
that George Martin ended up as 

332
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,720
their producer. 
Yeah, well, I said I spoke to 

333
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,320
Mike McCartney a few years ago. 
He and his brother don't know 

334
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,160
who his brother was. 
He and his brother had two 

335
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,920
copies or a copy each of songs 
for Swinging Sellers when they 

336
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,240
were living in Falkland Rd. 
And I'm sure he said they would 

337
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,160
read everything they could on 
the back of the album, album 

338
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,000
covers that they owned. 
And he said this name, George 

339
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,800
Martin, was very clearly 
credited. 

340
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,360
It's funny, though. 
It's because, yeah, you've got 

341
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:09,640
this, this lightning in a bottle
or whatever you want to call it,

342
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,880
the the amazing luck that they 
had to get George Martin as a 

343
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,720
producer. 
And he, as I'm sure you know, he

344
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:20,760
was rather reluctant at first, 
too, to be deployed to work with

345
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,320
The Beatles, but it was kind of 
almost like punishment for him. 

346
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,600
But such luck. 
And then and then, of course, 

347
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,560
the other thing is that, well, 
two years later, they're they're

348
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,960
going to make their first 
feature film and they get 

349
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,320
Richard Lester, who of course 
had worked with the goons on 

350
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:42,840
running, jumping and standing 
still film. 

351
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,240
And earlier, the son of Fred. 
The Fred shows on TV. 

352
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,160
I'm sure that was a link that 
they were aware of. 

353
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,240
I know it was a link that Lester
was aware of 'cause they 

354
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,640
interviewed him for my TV series
and he said I knew that they had

355
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,920
this wonderfully surreal humour 
that was exactly the same thing 

356
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,280
that I discovered with with with
Spike and Pete and Down Among 

357
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,000
the Z Men and stuff like that. 
So it does, it makes total sense

358
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,200
that that's how they ended up 
sort of linked together. 

359
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,080
And I think the goon humour, and
it's interesting because this is

360
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,280
where it sort of becomes Marmite
in a way. 

361
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:24,640
The goon humour invited a kind 
of freewheeling, like you say, 

362
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,960
jazz comedy approach. 
And the thing with George Martin

363
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,320
that links him to both the 
Sellers albums and The Beatles 

364
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:38,320
is this willingness or ability 
to basically sink himself into 

365
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,520
whatever somebody else thought 
they wanted and then find a way 

366
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,320
of producing that. 
So if somebody if, you know, 

367
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,160
obviously in the case of 
Sellers, if he says I want to 

368
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,640
travelogue that makes Balham 
sound like the most gorgeous 

369
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,840
place in the world, then we'll 
find a way to do that. 

370
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,440
And on the. 
And, you know, in comes. 

371
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,680
Yeah, the whole thing is, is 
makes is makes total sense. 

372
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:04,640
Same thing with The Beatles. 
When The Beatles say, OK, we 

373
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,120
want a sound here that's a 
little bit like an orchestra, 

374
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:09,320
but it's an orchestra that 
disappears up in the air. 

375
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,160
So he will then find a way to 
make that happen. 

376
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:18,280
And I think that's in a way, the
unsung greatness of of, of 

377
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:23,640
George, of George Martin is that
he had that ability to make 

378
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,960
concrete stuff that was only in 
people's heads, but in the heads

379
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,600
of people who had an incredibly 
surreal imagination and knew 

380
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,600
that this thing could exist and 
they just needed someone who 

381
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,080
could make it exist. 
And that's what he did, both 

382
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:39,520
with Sellers and with The 
Beatles. 

383
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,200
Well, he also, I don't know if 
you know, he produced an LP for 

384
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:50,520
Spike Milligan in 62, which 
really tested his mettle in term

385
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,520
of in terms of what Spike was 
asking for really. 

386
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,880
He he did you know that George 
Martin was Spike's best man as 

387
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,720
well? 
Doesn't surprise me, right? 

388
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,840
Spike got married for the second
time in 19 in end of April 1962.

389
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,360
George Martin was his best man. 
The wedding was up in Leeds and 

390
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:20,080
George had driven up to Leeds, 
driven Spike up to Leeds in his 

391
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,840
rickety old mini. 
I think they only just made it 

392
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,440
in time for the for the for the 
wedding, but I think it was 

393
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,800
literally something like 5 weeks
after that that Martin met The 

394
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,360
Beatles. 
There you go. 

395
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,640
Yeah, Yeah. 
I mean, that was a hell of a 

396
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,800
time. 
You know, I mean, it's I think I

397
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,640
can understand that Spike felt a
bit kind of left behind when the

398
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,080
60s really started to swing 
because he had seen it all 

399
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,360
coming. 
And the all of them, all three 

400
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:55,200
of them, the fact that they were
still D mob happy at the 

401
00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:00,160
beginning of the 1950s, you can 
really tell, Benteen said. 

402
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,000
You know, we only had to hear a 
sort of officer class voice and 

403
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,040
we'd start to take the piss. 
And that's really what they were

404
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,760
doing with the programmes. 
So by the time the 60s come 

405
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,200
along, really Spike and the 
others had already established 

406
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,720
this wonderful anti 
establishment chaos in which 

407
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,760
this whole idea that something 
could be organised or in some 

408
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,480
way or other overseen 
authorized, forget it. 

409
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,920
You know, it was like, no, no, 
no, it's life does not work that

410
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,440
way particularly. 
You know, the whole point about 

411
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,360
Echols is that he really doesn't
conform in any way whatsoever. 

412
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,520
He doesn't understand what's 
supposed to be normal. 

413
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,760
You know, he's just got his own 
take on the world the whole 

414
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,200
time. 
And I think, you know, Spike 

415
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,720
was, Spike was a hell of a 
thing. 

416
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,680
He really was. 
I mean, I met him once. 

417
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,360
I was, I was lucky because he 
was right at the top of the 

418
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:57,800
spectrum at the time, very 
happy. 

419
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,640
He was at a jazz gig in 
Eastbourne that I happened to be

420
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:09,520
at and it happened to be a trio 
again of guitar bass and well, 

421
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,560
wasn't he a guitar bass? 
But it was the same as the Bill 

422
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,320
Hall trio basically. 
And so he was on the staircase 

423
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,800
just going up to the thing and 
he he waved me ahead of him and 

424
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,560
I said, Mr. Bennigan, just want 
to say, how do you rate these 

425
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,800
two against the Bill Hall trio? 
And I got 5 minutes out of. 

426
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,520
Him how? 
Wonderful it was. 

427
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,760
It was really lovely and he was 
very generous and very funny, He

428
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:32,880
said, you know, it's not really 
a jazz. 

429
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,080
I can't do his accent, he said. 
It's not really a jazz night 

430
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,280
unless there's a fight breaks 
out on the dance floor and 

431
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:45,320
nobody notices. 
Which which he would detail, he 

432
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,520
detailed regularly in his 
warming was. 

433
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,680
That's absolutely he did, yeah. 
But we were in the, we were in 

434
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,600
the, the, the then art gallery 
space in Eastbourne, which was 

435
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,200
very posh and very polite. 
And the last place one of one of

436
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,800
Spike's style jazz things would 
have happened. 

437
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,680
But that was lovely. 
I mean, I, I, I was delighted 

438
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,480
and I walked away perfectly 
happy. 

439
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,000
I thought, great. 
I've met my hero. 

440
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,360
He was really nice and you know,
that's it sort of thing because 

441
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,200
I know plenty of people who met 
him when he was not in quite 

442
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,680
such a happy place and didn't 
like anything like a very 

443
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:24,680
pleasant connection. 
I saw we did a show last year 

444
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,920
about Spike's two appearances on
This Is Your Life as, Oh yeah, 

445
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,880
as the subject of and, and he, 
you know, you can tell the 

446
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,360
second, the first was in 73 when
he was top of his game. 

447
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,240
The first Adolf Hitler, my 
partner's downfall had come out 

448
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,520
and he was, he was full of 
energy. 

449
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,480
He was in the right mental space
and all was good. 

450
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,640
In fact, it was a little bit 
too, too much really, you know. 

451
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,880
And then the second edition was 
from 95. 

452
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,440
So he's, and he's aged quite a 
lot. 

453
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,600
I mean, obviously he's age, but 
he's, he's slowed down very 

454
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,600
visibly And, and he, you kind of
get the feeling throughout that 

455
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,560
he's kind of going through that.
He's doing it more for his 

456
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,080
family. 
His family are there and he's, 

457
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,360
you know, he's doing it going 
through the motions. 

458
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,720
But the one of the the few times
that you see him energized, I 

459
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,920
suppose there's, there's one 
when members of his old army 

460
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:26,920
band come out OK, And there's 
also when they show footage of 

461
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,240
the of the Bill Hall trio from 
40467, something like that. 

462
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,760
Gosh, yeah, he wouldn't. 
He would have been delighted 

463
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,400
with that, wouldn't? 
He he was delighted him with a 

464
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,520
false beard. 
Of course, of course. 

465
00:31:33,000 --> 00:32:00,320
None. 
None. 

466
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,000
Yeah, well, I mean, I think the,
you know, the that side of 

467
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,120
Spike's life never went away. 
He would produce his trumpet out

468
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,120
of nowhere. 
He obviously loved it. 

469
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,920
He took it with him when he went
on his trips and that sort of 

470
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,120
thing. 
And it was part of his therapy, 

471
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,280
I think, playing trumpet, 
playing it at home, playing it 

472
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,440
when he was out. 
And he was a good trumpet player

473
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:42,360
without any doubt whatsoever. 
I the, I have a, a very good and

474
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,920
I think unique story, which I 
was thinking through what I was 

475
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,400
going to say to you today. 
And I suddenly thought, oh, 

476
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,840
Blimey, good chance to tell this
one, which was that probably 

477
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:58,840
about the 1980s. 
I had a biggish birthday. 

478
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,120
I can't remember which one it 
was. 

479
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,280
It must have been either mid 
30th or mid 25th or something 

480
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,560
like that. 
I would imagine probably more 

481
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,800
likely my 30th. 
And so I went to the burger 

482
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,760
place, the really well known 
burger place in Soho, whose name

483
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,440
now I can't remember, but it's 
still there. 

484
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,440
It's been going for years and 
years and years, and it's quite 

485
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,520
large. 
It's got a sort of a big 

486
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,680
upstairs dining area. 
And I always have a piano 

487
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,520
player, and the piano player is 
there just to do sort of 

488
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,920
background stuff and people 
don't particularly listen 

489
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,960
anyway. 
I was and I was just like that. 

490
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,440
I was with a bunch of mates. 
There were eight or nine of us. 

491
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,080
We were sitting around a table 
and suddenly this piano player 

492
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,960
played a piece of music which I 
knew because as you, as you may 

493
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,520
or may not know, the way I 
learned to play the piano was 

494
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,880
that I heard stuff I liked and I
sat down at the piano and I'd 

495
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,600
pick it out and I'd pick it out 
to find out what they were doing

496
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,200
and how the chords were, 
particularly chord sequences. 

497
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,000
That's how I learnt chord 
sequences. 

498
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:06,000
And this was a piece of piano 
music called John O'Groats. 

499
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,960
And I remembered it really well 
because I'd only ever heard it 

500
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,679
on the Spike, Q6 or Q7. 
What? 

501
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,199
It was played by Alan Clare. 
Oh, OK, yeah. 

502
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:23,080
And this guy was playing this 
and he was pretty large. 

503
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,600
He's a short guy, but very, very
fat. 

504
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,679
And obviously he got a pair of 
crutches leaning against the 

505
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:31,679
piano. 
And I heard this go through and 

506
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:37,280
I was, wow, that's amazing. 
So in his, I went up, I said, 

507
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,000
I've got, I said to the guys, 
look, I've got to go and tell 

508
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,400
this guy. 
And I went over to the piano and

509
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,480
he was just between pieces. 
And I said, do you know, I 

510
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,520
haven't heard that piece except 
played by Alan Clare and on the 

511
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,679
Q series. 
And he sort of smiled at me and 

512
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:54,040
carried on playing. 
So then I went and sat down 

513
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,400
again. 
And when he took his break, the 

514
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,960
pianist climbed laboriously onto
these crutches and hauled his 

515
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,840
way over to me. 
And he sort of. 

516
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:05,320
Yeah. 
I said. 

517
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,440
I said, oh, welcome. 
Welcome. 

518
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,080
What's your name? 
He said, I'm Alan Clare. 

519
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:12,680
Oh, my God. 
So I had said to everybody 

520
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:17,360
around, look, this is my chance 
to fanboy this guy because, you 

521
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,400
know, brilliant. 
And also that particular piece I

522
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,040
loved, but he was so good with 
with Milligan and Milligan took 

523
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,680
the piss out of him. 
And there was that whole thing 

524
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,680
about him being such a bad 
actor, he has to bring his 

525
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,280
script on with him and all that 
stuff. 

526
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,400
And he talked about all of that.
And I said, so you know how long

527
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,040
you been here? 
He said, oh, well, there's not a

528
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,920
lot of work around now. 
I make a bit here, but none of 

529
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,200
the buggers listened to me. 
And I said, right, we're going 

530
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,760
to do something about that. 
So me and my table. 

531
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,480
So that was nine of us, picked 
up our chairs from the table, 

532
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,520
went and set the chairs up in 
front of the piano, on the floor

533
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,560
in front of the piano. 
And I said to Alan, would you 

534
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,440
play me John O Groats again? 
He said, yeah, yeah, of course, 

535
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:58,440
Of course. 
I said, all right, give us a 

536
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:59,880
minute, give us a minute, 
wouldn't he? 

537
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:04,960
So we all trooped over there, 
sat down, and he went to the 

538
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,800
piano and we all immediately 
applauded as he went to the 

539
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,600
piano. 
He sat down and he started 

540
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,200
playing. 
And you could hear the silence 

541
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,880
slowly grow over the whole of 
the burger joint. 

542
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:20,600
And he played it in pretty much 
total silence and finished. 

543
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,320
And at the end, there was huge 
applause from us and everybody 

544
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:28,800
else around the tables because I
thought if, God forbid, that 

545
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:35,720
might easily be me when I'm, you
know, I might be earning what 

546
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:39,600
amounted to, by comparison, 
pennies sitting in this place 

547
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,640
playing the piano for people who
aren't listening. 

548
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,160
And you know, I just, and he was
obviously pleased about that. 

549
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,640
He just went on playing after 
that, doing the rest of his, of 

550
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,520
his, of his stint. 
And it wasn't very long after 

551
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,200
that he died, only about two or 
three years. 

552
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:56,200
After that's, that'd be right, 
yeah, yeah. 

553
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,320
But I just thought that's the 
sort of thing that, you know, 

554
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,720
this is jobbing musician stuff. 
If you really do have to turn 

555
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:08,040
out and play, you know, give it 
your best shot for two hours in 

556
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,440
an area where there's people 
eating, the least you hope is 

557
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,960
that people are listening. 
And on that one particular time,

558
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,960
at least, they were. 
Let's be, I mean, I've, I've, 

559
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,400
I've heard a similar story, not 
about Alan Clare, but I can 

560
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,280
share a similar story if you 
don't mind. 

561
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,400
Sure. 
Who was it? 

562
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,880
Now I had a guest on. 
I've got a feeling. 

563
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,720
And if it, if it wasn't, I 
apologise. 

564
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,000
And I think I've got a feeling 
it may be Gavin Sutherland. 

565
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,920
Gavin, Yeah. 
I don't know him though, but I 

566
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:38,960
know of it of. 
Course you know of him. 

567
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,240
Yeah, I think it was him. 
He told me he was in Sydney, 

568
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,960
maybe, I don't know, 30 years 
ago or something like that, and 

569
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:52,080
he went to this cafe or nothing 
as elaborate as a restaurant. 

570
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,280
I think it was more like not, 
not a greasy spoon, but sort of 

571
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,000
in between the a greasy spoon 
and a restaurant sort of thing, 

572
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:03,280
you know, And there was an old 
guy at the piano very, you know,

573
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,840
accomplished piano player, but 
he was just, it was just 

574
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,280
background music for the, for 
the diners, you know, no one was

575
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,800
really listening. 
And he said he was playing this 

576
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,520
tune, which was sort of like a 
medley of different tunes. 

577
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:23,320
And then suddenly he started 
playing this tune that was 

578
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,640
instantly recognisable to Gavin,
but probably not to anyone else 

579
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:30,240
in that establishment. 
And it was, and it was the theme

580
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,120
music from the sitcom Man about 
the house. 

581
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,200
Oh, Oh yeah. 
Can you bring that to mind? 

582
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,880
I can't, but I I know, I know 
where this is going now. 

583
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,400
That's yeah, that's And so 
Gavin, if it was Gavin, he went 

584
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:49,000
up to him after and said sort of
introduced himself and it turned

585
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,720
out this guy was Johnny 
Hawksworth. 

586
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:55,000
Yeah, there we go. 
Of of library music fame. 

587
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,440
Yeah, probably even better now 
known now thanks to Johnny Drunk

588
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,280
than Oh yes, he was at the time.
Oh, yes, absolutely. 

589
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,960
Yeah. 
But I, you know, I guess it's 

590
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,000
if, if you still, if you're of 
advanced age and you're, you're 

591
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,880
still working, it's better than 
wandering somewhere. 

592
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,800
Yeah, I mean, I might have got 
it completely wrong. 

593
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,320
It going out and playing in that
burger joint may have been the 

594
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,200
highlight of Alan's week for all
I know. 

595
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,280
But I do know he was pretty 
Hacked Off and it was a fairly 

596
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,440
Yahoo crowd as well. 
So, you know, he was pretty 

597
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,440
Hacked Off that night. 
I was pleased we were able to do

598
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,840
something about it. 
But I've, I've got a question 

599
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,400
for you. 
Was the reason why the goons 

600
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,760
were sort of wall to wall jazz? 
Was it Pat Dixon? 

601
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,160
Was he the jazz fanatic who 
really wanted to put this stuff 

602
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,640
in or Dennis Mae Wilson? 
Who? 

603
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,280
Who was it who decided that that
was the sound it was going to 

604
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:54,840
happen between the script? 
I, I can't handle heart say for 

605
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,720
certain. 
I think it was Pat Dixon because

606
00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,720
he he pretty much got them all 
together, right. 

607
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,680
He he was the, he was kind of 
like the Barry took of, of the 

608
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:06,840
pythons, if you know what I 
mean. 

609
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,480
You know, the Barry took put 
them together. 

610
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,560
He was kind of like they're 
about the goons Barry took in 

611
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,360
that sense. 
But he couldn't, but he 

612
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,680
couldn't, he was busy or 
whatever committed. 

613
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,200
He couldn't produce the first 
few few series. 

614
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,240
So that was Dennis Mayne Wilson 
and then Peter Eaton took over 

615
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,640
and then Pat Dixon came along 
and, and took over as producer 

616
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:29,840
sort of mid 50s. 
But yeah, I mean, he was a huge 

617
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,200
jazzer, wasn't he? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

618
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:38,440
And obviously he's also using 
people who are either in the the

619
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,640
public eye or about to be in the
public eye. 

620
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:47,360
So in picking on Max and Ray, 
he's finding 2 acts there that 

621
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,200
will make good radio that are 
big enough that they're going to

622
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:56,320
be, you know, a, a real sort of 
asset to the program, but not so

623
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,560
big that they're either going to
ask too much money or aren't 

624
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,760
going to want to lower 
themselves to doing a weekly 

625
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,640
radio show. 
But I was really, I was very 

626
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:09,640
taken with that too, because 
it's, it's, it seems to suggest 

627
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:15,440
a, a mind behind the goons, 
behind what Spike was trying to 

628
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,200
do that understood that if there
was a musical language for 

629
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,560
Milligan, it was jazz. 
And it had to be both 

630
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,480
accessible, but as hot as you 
could get and still be 

631
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,360
accessible. 
And I think that's that's really

632
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,280
interesting that that's what 
they put in there and that's 

633
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,960
what works. 
I always found it really 

634
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,200
slightly off putting. 
And I'm sorry if he's still 

635
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,520
around and hears this, because I
don't mean it to be in any way 

636
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,800
disrespectful. 
But with round the horn, I 

637
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,840
always found the sort of the 
singers and the jazz band in 

638
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:52,000
that incredibly twee by 
comparison with, you know, the 

639
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,520
sheer parade of of filth and 
lustfulness that was. 

640
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,520
Coming out of the comedy. 
And then, boy, did that need 

641
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,160
something with a bit more edge 
to it. 

642
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,040
But yeah, in the case of the 
goons, it was there all the way 

643
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:33,680
through to my mind. 
Because obviously the Goons took

644
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:39,880
off really from performing it in
Grafton's pub in the late 40s. 

645
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,920
And it was kind of like a 
magnet. 

646
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,520
That pub was a magnet for the up
and coming comics and and people

647
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:52,000
people on their wavelength and 
musicians and and sellers seek 

648
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,480
and Bentin Milligan. 
They would they would perform 

649
00:42:54,520 --> 00:43:01,720
impromptu comedy skits in the in
the bar, a company they didn't. 

650
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:06,360
You'd have people joining in 
like piece of Butterworth, you 

651
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:07,520
know, from. 
The Oh, really? 

652
00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:08,480
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

653
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,720
He was a he was a friend. 
Janet Brown, who who married 

654
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:15,240
Peter Butterworth. 
She got involved, but, yeah, but

655
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:20,320
there'd also be music and jazz 
and Spike on the trumpet and and

656
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,480
and whatnot. 
And I'm sure, you know, Pat 

657
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,400
Dixon would be among the throng 
of people that would that would 

658
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,080
be there. 
So I guess it was obvious to him

659
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,600
that that sort of sound was was 
what the Goon Show needed. 

660
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,080
Yeah. 
There, there was, what do you 

661
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,800
call it, I don't know how you 
describe it, a group called the 

662
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:44,200
Stargazers who were much more on
the the round the horn level of 

663
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:49,160
of talent. 
They were only in sort of 1 1/2 

664
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,400
series of the Goon show right at
the beginning. 

665
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,920
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. 
My Liberty Bell. 

666
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,040
My Pretty Little bell you gives 
me once and you knew done well. 

667
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,080
Or you knew done well. 
My Liberty Bell. 

668
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,520
I love nobody but you. 
That's pretty girls in Singapore

669
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:20,320
and the Philippines. 
I I really like those numbers. 

670
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,280
I probably, as I say, I was like
others to begin with in that I 

671
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,560
would quite happily Fast forward
through when I was listening to 

672
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,320
the tapes. 
But then when you listen to him 

673
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,600
you realise how much sheer 
artistry there is going on 

674
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,760
there. 
And I actually now I really like

675
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,240
it when you get to those moments
because as I say, it's a 

676
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,240
breather, but it's also you can 
enjoy some really good musicians

677
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:46,640
right at the top of their game. 
I remember there's a, there's a 

678
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,120
every now and then there's a 
name check from Ray Ellington 

679
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,720
and the one he particularly 
talks about is Don Fraser, who's

680
00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:54,800
his electric guitarist who was 
Australian. 

681
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,000
Yeah, that's right. 
And he is really fast. 

682
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,600
He's really kind of accurate 
with what he's doing. 

683
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:07,000
And quite a few times he and the
pianist sort of share a joint 

684
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,360
solo where there are sort of 1/3
apart and the pianist is doing 

685
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,800
little, little, little and Don 
Fraser's doing doodle, doodle, 

686
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,800
doodle, doodle, doodle, doodle a
few a few notes lower and you 

687
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,560
can hear the two of them working
really, really well together. 

688
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,640
I think they're sort of 
developing a way that electric 

689
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:30,480
guitar within a jazz format can 
work really well with a pianist 

690
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,200
who plays great jazz and 
particularly that kind of very 

691
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,480
sort of fast moving, interesting
right hand jazz stuff. 

692
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,080
And that just to hear that 
coming together aside from, as I

693
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,320
say, Ray Ellington's sort of 
early rock'n'roll. 

694
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:51,280
And I love it also when Ray 
Anderson's getting to the end of

695
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,520
his number, in comes Wally stop 
the orchestra. 

696
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,560
And they're just all all really.
Angela Moore he's been asked to 

697
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,240
do is probably produce the last 
five chords of whatever it is 

698
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:04,680
he's doing. 
But you can hear Ray getting to 

699
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,240
the end of his piece and 
probably going up really high, 

700
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:09,960
then incomes. 
The orchestra fires him through 

701
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:11,120
the end of the number. 
That's right. 

702
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,440
And then you can hear him go, 
yeah, hey. 

703
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,480
And then probably. 
And then he'll say, Don Fraser, 

704
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,080
you know, he introduces the bag 
and in the few seconds he's got 

705
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:23,320
before Act three starts, it's 
good fun. 

706
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,800
He did it, I think. 
His pianist certainly was 

707
00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:29,560
principal and was Dick Katz. 
Yes, that's right. 

708
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,320
Very, very, very good. 
Piano player? 

709
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,240
He doesn't. 
He certainly name checks him a 

710
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:36,080
couple of times. 
Yep, Yep. 

711
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,000
And Judd Proctor, of course, was
in his band. 

712
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,640
And Pete McGurk, all these 
people. 

713
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,280
Above my head, above my head, 
music in the air, there's music 

714
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,040
in the air. 
Above my head, there's music in 

715
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:03,320
the air, music in the air. 
Above my head, there's music in 

716
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:07,160
the air. 
I really do believe, I really do

717
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,560
believe there's a head somewhere
I have somewhere above my head. 

718
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,520
Up above my head. 
There's trouble in the air. 

719
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:16,880
There's trouble in the air Above
my head. 

720
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,600
Above my head. 
Yeah. 

721
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,520
There's trouble in the air. 
Up above my head. 

722
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,080
Up above my head. 
There's trouble in the air. 

723
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,240
There's trouble in the air. 
I really do believe. 

724
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:30,280
I really do believe in the 
heaven somewhere. 

725
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:35,120
There's a heaven somewhere now. 
Music makes the world go round. 

726
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,880
It's the way to be happy. 
The much I've found. 

727
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,520
Sing a song. 
Be happy and free. 

728
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,160
I come along, children, and 
follow me. 

729
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,920
I have a soul that's weary and 
morn. 

730
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:51,760
But I've heard, but I believe 
what the good Lord said, because

731
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,760
I've heard music and it's above 
my head, above my head. 

732
00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:01,040
There's music in the air above 
my head. 

733
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:07,680
Above my head, there's music in 
the air. 

734
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:13,720
There's music in the air above 
my head. 

735
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:18,000
Music in the air above my head 
midweek with Angela Morley. 

736
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:23,120
Yeah, at his flat in London to 
arrange the arrangements for his

737
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,160
his number. 
Yeah. 

738
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,120
And the big thing they do there 
particularly is that they go to 

739
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,440
double the speed. 
So he'd go in on something slow 

740
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:37,920
and then suddenly it would go 
and then he'd be in and he'd be 

741
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,440
doing it twice the speed and 
sort of soloing over the 

742
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,120
orchestra doing the number. 
And I've used to love that too, 

743
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:46,320
because that meant there was 
another. 

744
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,200
He sort of re energized 
everything. 

745
00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:51,480
But I loved it when he was 
playing over the slow things, 

746
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,920
you know, I mean, Max Gildre 
playing over a slow romantic 

747
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,760
number. 
It's just beautiful. 

748
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,880
It's reminds you of like Stephen
Grappelli that he can do 

749
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,400
beautiful things on the 
harmonica that are decorations 

750
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,360
but never lose sight of the 
tune. 

751
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,040
And it is just, I think it's, 
it's, it's really wonderful 

752
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,480
artistry what he does. 
And he was also, he was under 

753
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,840
appreciated, not by not by the 
goons, but by the BBC because as

754
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,280
always, even back then, we're 
trying to save money where they 

755
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,160
could. 
And there was talk in the late 

756
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,640
50s, fifty, 758, something like 
that. 

757
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,840
Yep. 
That they might drop Max from 

758
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,240
the show. 
Oh, this? 

759
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,080
Is where Peter Sellers said if 
they did that, he'd be walk out.

760
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:37,560
He'd walk out, yes. 
Yeah. 

761
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:40,880
Yeah. 
Well, you know, like ABS, 

762
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:43,720
Absolutely. 
You know, even if, as some have 

763
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:46,760
suggested, the numbers were just
there so the goons could go off 

764
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,720
and have milk and Brandy. 
But, you know, it's there's, 

765
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:50,840
there's a lot more to it than 
that. 

766
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,000
Because I think that they really
got off on those musicians and 

767
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,400
they loved it. 
They loved hearing them, Yes. 

768
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,720
And it was a bit of a family, 
even though, you know, Spike 

769
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,760
takes the piss. 
There's a fair amount of, you 

770
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,160
know, Max proper on Max gets it 
in the no in the neck for having

771
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,520
a big nose and being Jewish and 
all the rest of it. 

772
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,680
Ray gets in the neck for being 
black and you know, everything, 

773
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:21,040
everything eventually becomes a 
gag to to to to Milligan, 

774
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:24,080
whether or not it might be in 
the least bit offensive. 

775
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,120
But you can tell there's a real 
genuine love between them and 

776
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:33,120
I'm pretty sure I've seen that 
Max went on tour with a couple 

777
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,560
of them when they were going out
doing the summer seasons and 

778
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:36,840
stuff. 
Like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

779
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,920
Because they had a sort of a 
sort of an airsax goon show show

780
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,600
that went down the Piers and 
things like that. 

781
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,960
And they with Harry Secombe and 
possibly Billigan for all I 

782
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,160
know. 
And I think Max Gildre as well. 

783
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,800
Gildre toured a lot with Sellers
as well, right? 

784
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,440
And also, in fact, they they met
before the Goon show began when 

785
00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:01,000
Sellers was still, you know, 
relatively unknown in the late 

786
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,120
40s. 
He was doing the variety circuit

787
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,480
and, and whatnot. 
But there was certainly, I've 

788
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,400
seen at least one show that he 
was on the bill with Max, with 

789
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,320
Max Keldrew was on the same 
bill, if you know what. 

790
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,120
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Brilliant. 

791
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,560
And Sellers would. 
You know, Sellers was many 

792
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,920
things in later life, but he 
always retained that quite close

793
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,640
contact. 
I'm sure he did. 

794
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:24,960
I'm sure he did. 
Yeah. 

795
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,480
Yeah. 
I mean, you know, later Sellers 

796
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,200
is an absolute bloody nightmare,
but you can see there's so much 

797
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:33,720
genuine appreciation there as 
well. 

798
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:35,920
And it's I think that's one of 
the things they managed to pull 

799
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,720
off with the the last gun show 
of all is that they all look 

800
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:42,040
like they're delighted to be 
there. 

801
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,360
And I I'm sure they were, you 
know, gives that impression. 

802
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,560
What it's with hindsight, it's 
not a great show in itself. 

803
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:53,560
As in the last Gun show, it's 
it's a bit of a mess and it's a 

804
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,600
bit, it's cobbled together 
stuff, but it it the, the 

805
00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:59,360
enthusiasm powers through it. 
Out of. 

806
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,160
Doubt appreciate, you know, you,
you your time is limited, Neil. 

807
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,120
So thank you very much for for 
being on the show. 

808
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,960
Really enjoy your podcast as 
well. 

809
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,080
Good. 
Thank you. 

810
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,120
I know you obviously you've 
you've done a lot on radio over 

811
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,200
the years and television. 
Yeah, but is is podcasting. 

812
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:18,360
It's a it's a recent foray for 
you. 

813
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,480
Is it? 
Yeah, it is totally. 

814
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,480
I, I really only got into it 
because I was working with ATV 

815
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,880
production company trying to 
make arts documentaries. 

816
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,360
And we discovered fairly quickly
that nobody's buying arts 

817
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,280
documentaries because nobody 
much is making them anymore 

818
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,320
except for really kind of, you 
know, straight down the line 

819
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,920
career interviews with Elton 
John and stuff like that. 

820
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,160
So they were the ones that said,
you know what, we think we'd 

821
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,520
quite like to do a podcast where
you do something similar to what

822
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,600
you do on Add playlist. 
So I said, yeah, fine, great, 

823
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,520
I'll enjoy that. 
So that's what we started last 

824
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,400
September, which is called All 
About the Music. 

825
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,160
And we're doing very well. 
I think we're something like 13 

826
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,240
or 14 guests down the line now. 
And it's a pretty eclectic 

827
00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:10,320
bunch. 
They have lots of different 

828
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,560
musical influences, which is 
great. 

829
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,880
I mean, that was the other thing
was I wanted to be as eclectic 

830
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,800
as possible so we don't rule out
anything. 

831
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,760
So whatever anybody has kind of 
grown up loving, then we're 

832
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:25,680
there. 
Excellent. 

833
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,840
So you are the leader in your 
field in terms of, I think it's 

834
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:35,720
fair to say in terms of 
accompanist for silent films. 

835
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:36,880
Thank. 
You. 

836
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,200
That's very kind. 
Have you ever seen the film The 

837
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,600
Peter Sellers film The Smallest 
Show on Earth? 

838
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,840
Oh, yeah, 'cause famously it's 
got a silent movie bit in it 

839
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:51,000
that gets accompanied on the 
piano by by Brilliant. 

840
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,120
The name's gone. 
Margaret Rutherford. 

841
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,120
Margaret Rutherford, Yeah. 
Yes. 

842
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,880
Yeah. 
And I've used that clip a few 

843
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:04,960
times to sort of introduce, to 
introduce me in so far as it is 

844
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,920
absolutely how silent movies 
were seen by that generation 

845
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,720
growing up in the 1950s. 
It's a lovely film. 

846
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:14,520
I think anyway, I think Sellers 
is brilliant. 

847
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:16,600
You know, he's breathtakingly 
good in that. 

848
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:20,440
And it's it's kind of fun. 
It's lovely that they do what 

849
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,240
they do. 
They show a little bit actually 

850
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:28,560
from a, a very creaky drama made
by the Hepworth company, British

851
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,880
drama, but actually made in 
about 19/12/13. 

852
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,000
I don't think it's, it might be 
a bit later than that, but not 

853
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,840
by much. 
So it's, it really is the kind 

854
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:45,200
of the world of, of sentimental 
piano and overacting on screen. 

855
00:54:45,240 --> 00:54:48,640
You know, onto that, onto that 
bit of film. 

856
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,360
Mr. Quill? 
Mr. Quill, what's going on? 

857
00:54:55,640 --> 00:55:02,680
Old films, Mr. Spencer classics 
in my time, I've saved them for 

858
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:07,720
years, bits of them. 
We used to run them like this in

859
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:10,840
the old days, but not for years.
We haven't done. 

860
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,880
Now it seems like old times once
more. 

861
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,560
Thank you very much to Neil. 
He was a pleasure to speak to 

862
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,840
and really, really nice guy. 
And I do recommend his podcast. 

863
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:36,000
So yeah, I just wanted to, since
the show's been back 3-4 weeks, 

864
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:38,920
we've had quite a bit of 
listener feedback, which is very

865
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,320
encouraging and very positive, 
largely. 

866
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,920
A couple of weeks ago we did a 
show on the Michael Winter film 

867
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:52,480
Climb Up the Wall from 1960. 
That actually I was surprised at

868
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,720
how well that was received and 
no disrespect to to well to 

869
00:55:56,720 --> 00:55:59,600
Adrian or myself. 
Adrian Smith, my guest on that 

870
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,880
show. 
I thought it might have limited 

871
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:07,160
appeal because it's it's a very 
obscure film, goon adjacent, I 

872
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,080
suppose, or there's there's goon
bits in it, but it's not really 

873
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,480
a goon show film or anything. 
It's certainly not a goon show 

874
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,280
film, although it's better than 
down among the Zed Men, I think.

875
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,240
But anyway, it, it got a lot of 
positive feedback and comments. 

876
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:22,840
We, we, we got front for, for 
that. 

877
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,040
So let me just run through some 
of the, some of the messages. 

878
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,000
Damien Smith or Smythe well 
done. 

879
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:32,080
Another excellent episode. 
Such a nice and relaxing 

880
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,760
listening experience. 
Brilliant Tyler, fascinating 

881
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:35,960
subject. 
Keep up the good work. 

882
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:37,680
Nice to have you back on the 
air. 

883
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,280
Thank you very much, Damien. 
It's not really the air, is it? 

884
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,160
But you know, I, I appreciate 
the sentiment. 

885
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,040
Apologies for the pronunciation 
here of the, of, of your name. 

886
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:51,320
I think it's Daglan, Michael. 
Daglan, Michael, he says. 

887
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,720
Another absolutely fantastic 
episode. 

888
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:55,800
Fascinating. 
Sent me down a rabbit hole about

889
00:56:55,800 --> 00:57:00,440
both George Calypso Brown and 
Cherry Wiener, and also prompted

890
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,600
me to listen again to Victor 
Louis Smith's Michael Wynner 

891
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,040
phone call. 
I won't post it here because 

892
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:09,440
it's naughty and I'm vaguely 
familiar with what you're 

893
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,240
talking about there. 
John Auty. 

894
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,000
The great John Auty, of course, 
he said. 

895
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,360
Another wonderful episode about 
a movie directed by the 

896
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,880
appalling Michael Wynner in 
reference to the movies of 

897
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,360
winners that Tyler hasn't seen. 
Dirty Weekend is absolutely 

898
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,160
ludicrous from start to finish. 
It sounds it. 

899
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,560
Parting Shots is an 
award-winning feature in 

900
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,280
comparison, and ironically that 
is even worse. 

901
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:36,360
If anyone can create a a meme of
Tyler exclaiming Chris Rea, I'd 

902
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,480
be eternally grateful. 
Yeah, that's right, I was. 

903
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,360
I was discombobulated 
momentarily by the mention of 

904
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:48,920
Chris Rea. 
And also quite a lengthy message

905
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:52,320
by listener Len Kennington, or 
as I'm going to call him, Ken 

906
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,360
Lennington because he's a little
bit cheeky. 

907
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,080
He says Oh my word chaps, you 
really don't get it at all. 

908
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:03,000
This is a spin off from the Jack
Jackson Show, which ran on ATV 

909
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:07,120
from 1955 to 1959. 
All the guests and the gags 

910
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,160
relate to this TV show, a 
musical and comedy weekly 

911
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,600
collection which includes 
regulars like Cherry Wehner, 

912
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:15,280
Neville Taylor and sometimes 
Craig Douglas, plus comedy 

913
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,520
routines by Libby Morris and 
Glenn Mason. 

914
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,800
At the time, this concoction 
would have made much more sense 

915
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:23,640
to audiences. 
The European film clip, which 

916
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,280
includes the Vienna Boys Choir, 
is from The Unfinished Symphony,

917
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:32,160
an Austrian movie lays faha 
minor ladder from 1933, 

918
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,400
distributed in the UK by Fancy. 
That's EJ Fancy, who we talked 

919
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,280
about on the show. 
The BBC Times is a gag because 

920
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:42,560
the TV show was on ITV. 
Get it? 

921
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,960
Charlie Kuhn's clip is from Clap
Hands 1935 and the Francis Day 

922
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:52,400
clip is from Temptation 1934. 
Thank you very much, Len, for 

923
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:57,240
setting us right on that. 
Now on the Mighty Wurlitzer from

924
00:58:57,240 --> 00:58:59,080
last week, Roger Stevenson. 
Hello, Roger. 

925
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:01,720
He says. 
Thoroughly enjoyable episode. 

926
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,080
I was informed, educated and 
entertained. 

927
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,360
Very good. 
No idea what the sofa line is 

928
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:12,320
about, but Anita Dobson was in 
Split Ends, a sitcom that is all

929
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,360
set and no com. 
That was it. 

930
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,720
Yeah. 
I'd forgotten the name of that 

931
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:21,640
Anita Dobson sitcom Misses Brian
May. 

932
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:27,200
Yeah, the sofa gag was to do 
with Blood Knock and Sabrina and

933
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,040
Sean Gaffney. 
Thank you, Sean. 

934
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:33,560
He he may have cracked it, he 
says regarding the sofa line. 

935
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,680
The encyclopaedia Sabrina Didn't
Realize There Was Such Thing has

936
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:44,080
a 1955 article from People 
quoted that states she debuted 

937
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:48,000
on British TV by sliding slowly 
off a sofa she had been lying 

938
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:52,040
on, walked towards the cameras 
and then turned sideways. 

939
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,560
I wonder why. 
Yeah. 

940
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,000
So Sabrina and sofas and blood 
knock. 

941
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:58,680
It all makes sense, kind of. 
I think. 

942
00:59:58,680 --> 00:59:59,760
I think we've put that one to 
bed. 

943
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,560
So thank you. 
Thank you for that, Sean. 

944
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:09,320
And just one other quick. 
Message I wanted to relate from 

945
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:15,280
Jeremy Lim, the great Jeremy Lim
of the Trap, he said. 

946
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,720
And former guest, of course, he 
said. 

947
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,440
I recently listened to your 
episode on the specter of 

948
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,160
Tintagel. 
I know I'm hopelessly behind. 

949
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:28,000
You know, that was about 3-4 
years ago Jeremy, and I can't 

950
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:29,440
remember if I mentioned this 
already. 

951
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:33,320
The epic filmic music they 
intermittently use is a piece 

952
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:37,840
called Tintagel by a composer 
called Arnold Bax BAX. 

953
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:41,680
He was my great grandfather, my 
closest goon connection. 

954
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,680
So there we go. 
Now Jeremy, as well as being a 

955
01:00:45,680 --> 01:00:49,520
musician in his own right as 
well as a comedian and actor. 

956
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:52,560
He comes from a very musical 
family because his father is 

957
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:57,320
Roger Lim, who's a very well 
known a person in the in the 

958
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,200
Doctor Who world. 
He he, he composed a lot of 

959
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,760
music for Doctor Who as well as 
box of delights and a whole lot 

960
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,280
more of, of, of TV stuff, 
including the music used in 

961
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:09,520
those protect and survive films 
from the 1970s. 

962
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:12,920
So thank you for that, Jeremy. 
I haven't gone back to the 

963
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,920
spectre of Tin Tanjou and 
listen, but I will do OK. 

964
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:21,080
So that is it more or less for 
this week in a few days. 

965
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,320
If you listen to this on the day
it goes out, there'll be a new 

966
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:29,480
episode of Goon Pod film club 
dropping and that is myself and 

967
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,040
writer Andy Riley. 
And we are talking about the 

968
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:39,680
Will Hay 1939 film Ask a 
Policeman, which was a lot of 

969
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:40,600
fun. 
Actually. 

970
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,680
I, I, I'm not a big Will Hay 
expert or, or, or necessarily 

971
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:47,640
what I would call a fan or, or 
whatever, but I, I, I did enjoy 

972
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:50,520
more or less ask a policeman. 
It's quite short as well. 

973
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,400
So that's good. 
And, and Andy and I had a good 

974
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,520
conversation about, about that 
film and will hey, in general 

975
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:59,560
and look out for that. 
That'll be dropping. 

976
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:04,040
And next week, all being well, 
we will be back on goon pod 

977
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:08,840
talking about the case of the 
Malconese battle horn. 

978
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,680
It's not recorded yet, so it's 
going to be right down to the 

979
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:16,480
wire, but hopefully next week 
that will be what you will be 

980
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:19,040
listening to. 
So anyway, I've been waffling 

981
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,920
far, far, far, far too long now.
Thanks for listening. 

982
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:29,800
Until next time, as always, bye.
I'm going out with the mountain 

983
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:34,600
and I'm only 503. 
I wasn't alone with that 

984
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,680
mountain. 
She was far too. 

985
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:40,240
Tall for me. 
So I went around with a cold 

986
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:45,160
hole instead, but I got covered 
in and grind so I'm going steady

987
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:48,360
with 3:30 because it's always 
there all the time. 

988
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:54,920
I once knew a girl called and 
another little girl called, but 

989
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:59,680
when in love with and. 
And in love with. 

990
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:08,200
I'm going up with a mountain and
I'm only 5 foot three. 

991
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:14,280
I was in love with a mountain. 
She was far too tall for me so I

992
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,200
went around with the coho 
instead. 

993
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:21,280
But I got come on in grind, so 
I'm going steady with 3:30 

994
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,480
because it's always there on 
time, tick up, always there on 

995
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,560
time, tick tock. 
Have some time.