Hello everybody. I'm standing outside a flat
roofed murder pub somewhere in the provinces and my guest this
week is inside, but he doesn't know I'm here.
Everything's been carefully arranged to ensure that it's all
been kept a secret from him. And he he's actually been
brought here under false pretences.
He's been told they're doing Kinvig cosplay here tonight.
So I hope he's not disappointed to see me.
So I'm, I'm now going to, I'm going to go in and I'm going to,
I'm going to give him the shock of his life as I walk up to him
and I tap him on the shoulder and I say, John Williams, this
is your goon pod. Oh my goodness, I didn't expect
this. I didn't expect this.
Are you going to embarrass me in a stilted fashion?
You're going to be subjected to some horny old anecdotes
delivered very badly. By some people who aren't in
showbiz and are very awkward at expressing themselves.
That's. The.
Way to do it I think. Well, let's drop the pretences.
This is obviously Goon Pod and this is returning guest John
Williams, him off of World of Telly.
Indeed. Which is, you've not dropped an
episode for a while. What's going on there?
We've moved to every three weeks.
It was just the fortnightly schedule was a bit too much,
what with all the research. And then on top of that, the
fact that Neil does the editing on the audio and the video
podcast as well, it was all just getting a bit much.
And so this should have been an episode released yesterday, but
apparently Audacity has a bit of an issue going on at the moment,
or at least for Neil's purposes. Apparently there's a problem.
So it's not going to drop until later today.
It's Friday the 28th as we record.
So it'll be about 7:00 tonight. And then we've got a Christmas
episode coming up on I think the 18th, which has got a nice
surprise for people in that one. Very good, very good, very good.
By the way, would you have been up for Kim Vig cosplay?
I'm up for anything, Tyler, you know me or or triangle.
Definitely triangle. Definitely triangle.
I like the sailor outfit. Yeah.
OK. So John, we were last speaking
about, well, what would you call it, a Spike Milligan
embarrassment, I suppose it's really where you can describe it
carry in chips. But we had a great conversation
about it, about a terrible program.
Yeah, it was good, wasn't it? It was good and I'm sure much
appreciated by your listeners. It went down extremely well and
you've come back to talk about Spike again, Spike on telly
again. Can't stay away.
But it's in the form of, say, Spike appeared as, what do you
call them, subjects. Yeah.
Victims. Victims on on television's This
Is Your Life. He appeared twice.
He was first approached by Eamonn Andrews in April 1973 and
then again by Michael Aspel. And when was that?
That was February 95. And he was, he was a hell of a
lot older. Yes, it's.
Quite a whiplash but when you watch 2 episodes consecutively.
Yes, yes, and I must admit and I what I wouldn't mind before we
talk about Spike on on this is your life is is talking about
this is your life in general, John, because I'm it's not
something that I grew up with having been brought up in the
colonies. We didn't get This is your life.
So my, in fact, I'll tell you what, my first real knowledge,
OK, in the comics I used to read, I used to read Wizard
ships and Buster and and Whoopi and all those British comics
when I was a kid. And very often there'd be little
gags featuring someone who I presume was like a cartoon
version of Eamonn Andrews with a big red book going up to China
or Roger the Dodger or whatever and saying this is your life.
So that that's how I knew about This is your life.
And also there's an episode of IE being served in which who was
it? Is it young Mr. Grace?
I think young Mr. Grace, they do a mock This is your life for him
because it's his 80th birthday or something.
So that was my knowledge of this is Your life pretty much until I
came to this country. But I'm aware of it in the
round. But can you give us a bit more
background to it? Yeah, I can do, but you've just
distracted me about mentioning Roger the Dodger.
I used to. I used to love the fact that all
of his Dodgers were in bound, leather bound volumes.
I'm serious. Where did he get the money to
bind them? This is one of the great
mysteries. Yeah.
This is your life. It started off in America.
It's a kind of late 40s, I think it was radio programme and then
it went to TV around to kind of early 50s.
People famously on that with people like Laurel and Hardy
were on it, amongst others. It was created by a guy called
Ralph Edwards and the IT was then taken up in the UK.
It was on the BBC initially hosted by Eamon Andrews, though
I think he was the first subject of the program and then he ended
up then he presented it from then on.
Also, so who presented that first show?
Do you know? I.
Can't remember the same thing happened in the early 70s when
Andrews was was the subject again and that was David Nixon
presented that program. They didn't with the double
whammy. Apparently Ralph Edwards, the
American guy who started it all off threatened his his
colleagues and staff with the sack if they ever did the same
thing to him. Which is quite revealing that
the guy who created it would never wanted to be a subject of
it. Which is which is which is
interesting, but Amon Andrew Amon Andrews moved to ABC
television and the BB and the program stopped.
But when it really sort of became big was when Thames TV in
the UK started up again in 1969. And I think the examples you
mentioned there of just a Big Red Book and Eamon Andrews just
speak to the kind of cultural import of the program.
It was so massively popular that it's actually, you know, it's
frankly bizarre now that you when you think about it, but it
was I think if you've everybody should have the book televisions
greatest hits. It's a very, very useful book
about top rated TV programs, all the top 20 TV programs
throughout from about 1955 to and I can't remember when the
calf date is because it it lays aside a lot of the myths about
because, you know, actors in particular say things like, oh,
there were 30 million people watching it and the churches
were empty. But actually it was something
like 9 million or such thing. And you can always turn to the
book to get that. But it's it's picked out.
This is your life for a special accolade because from 1969 to
1983, it always had at least one of its shows got to number one
in the ratings. And indeed, despite Milligan,
well, 1973 was the most watched show of that week.
You know, more than, yeah, more than Coronation Street.
Again, it's not that uncommon because the following week after
as Fight Milligan, it was Jackie Palo, the wrestler was on and
equally that was top of the charts as well.
So it was the kind of cultural impact of everybody watched it.
Basically. The BBC didn't put much
competition up against it really.
I think opposite the spikes. First one was ask the family in
Tomorrow's World, you know, not the kind of like huge audience
thing. So I think I'm right in saying
when I had quick look at the BBC used to produce these things
called at a glance kind of all TV barometers, audience
barometers and and he used to have all the ITV stuff in there
as well. And basically 27.3% of the UK
population watch that Spike Milligan show which is.
Wow. And it and it was it was
catastrophic as well, wasn't it? That yeah it.
Was it was, yeah, I'm sure we'll, we'll get on to the, to
the catastrophic nature of it. It's a, it's a total shambles.
But the the the this is your life is interesting because
you'd think it would be a very rich source for DVD extras and
things like that. And some extracts from the shows
have have, you know, occasionally been used.
But I believe the rights cost to fortune.
So it's not something that normally people can afford to
include in full on on DVD. There's obviously some tangled
kind of. Rises Is the Ralph Edwards
estate still? Yeah, I believe so, Right, OK.
And it's so it's so it's sort of faded away as a thing.
And I think, you know, if there are any of the TikTok generation
listening and Tyler, as I'm sure there are, there are it's it's.
You have to listenership. It's hard.
It really is hard to overestimate how you know,
everybody watched it used to get parodied all the time and the I
know that it kind of in people's lives, you know, the stars as
well, the celebrities. It was a it was a bit of a mixed
blessing getting that this is your life.
In some respects. I there's the the actor dead
now, sadly, Richard Thorpe, who played, amongst other things,
Alan Turner in Emmerdale for many, many years.
I was once kind of assigned and hoped to be the shadow, what
they call them, author of his autobiography.
And I met him quite a few times to do interviews and he told me
his story of when he was on This Is Your Life.
And it culminated in and going to the hotel and Richard having
a massive heart attack on the same day that he'd had his This
Is Your Life experience. Because he feels that it was
just like such a weirdly stressful thing and such a
surprise. They used to get get a lot of
criticisms. I remember later on when they
were doing people you thought were ludicrously young.
I remember Peter Davidson getting the treatment when he
was Doctor Who and that that got quite a few complaints because
he was, especially because they were going to end with Beryl
Reed coming on as a star guest at the end.
And Peter Davidson had worked with us for two days only in his
life. Oh.
For God's sake, yes. I must say, when I I saw him I
thought I must have a little nibble.
No, there's celery on the. You, you understand.
It was, it was pretty. And then Stephen Hendry of all
people, when he was about 21 was featured on it, which was crazy.
But then I guess sometimes that was good because Richard
Beckinsale was on it. And that was, I guess, in the
nick of time because poor old Richard died so young.
It also loomed large in terms of people who turned it down.
Richard Gordon of the Doctor books fame, he he turned it down
but eventually did it. The most famous one, an
intractable one, was Danny Blanchflower.
Because in those days, in the old days, in the 60s, they used
to do it live. And Danny Blanchflower just said
get lost, walked off. And they had, fortunately they'd
already prepared for this and they had this a spare one kind
of set up so they could do a recorded a pre one they'd done
on a pre record in. So Danny Blanchfield was very
famous for that. Danny Blanchard, the footballer,
Spurs footballer. The other thing I think people
you know who are not familiar with Eamon Andrews and and this
is your life. Eamon Andrews is, is a baffling
figure to me. He, he was right there
throughout my childhood. He's the least suited person to
be ATV presenter I have ever seen in my life.
I think he he like, he looks terrified all the time.
He sweats like nobody's business.
He has he was kind of fatal. It's like he's got a flop sweat
on from the moment he goes out there and he's frequently seeing
mopping his brow and he's got no repartee He's got he's not quick
witted. He can't react to what's going
on in front of him. And he, it's just, you know, he
looks like he's going through all the agonies that you could
possibly. Have.
Well, yeah, and on the evidence of the 73 spike, this is your
life. He could get a bit tetchy
occasionally, mind you, I suppose, if you've got Milligan
trying to keep Milligan in check.
For half an hour. But that's the exact I think
that's the example. I think the reason he gets
tetchy is because he doesn't like anything spontaneous
happening and basically because he knows he can't deal with it.
And the I mean, this was the man who in the 60s when he was on
ABC television had a chat show on Sunday night.
It's called the Eamonn Andrews Show.
And famously, Marty Feldman and Barry Took were on that program,
and they could not believe that Andrews would ask a question,
get an answer, and then he would say something that completely
revealed that he'd not listened to a word that the person had
said. And so they went off after that
experience and they were writing around the horn at the time, and
they created the character of Seamus Android.
Android. Played by Bill Pertwee, who does
exactly that. He just says random things that
have no sense and linked together at all because they
just. Yeah.
So that's the sort of that's that's this is your life, but it
carry, you know, until Andrews death in 1987.
I mean, as I say, up to 1983, always at least one of the
programs hit the top of the ratings and it was often quite a
few that did that because it wasn't especially in the kind of
late 60s, early 70s, it wasn't quite the dominance dominance
that some people think that Coronation Street had.
It was always a high rater, but things like Crossroads as well
and the old sitcom would would get in there as well.
And This is Your Life was another one that would
classically kind of get in there.
There's quite the other thing about This Is Your Life, which
periodically, not very often, they'd have what they called an
unsung hero on the programme. So they would not have a
celebrity on, they'd have just someone who had done good things
in a particular community. And so I did have a kind of
random non famous person on and it's quite a good episode of
Selwyn Froggit. I don't know, it's Selwyn
Froggit, written by Alan Plater, where Selwyn is convinced that
he's going to be the subject of This Is Your Life and constantly
goes around doing the theme tune all the way through, all the way
through the program. And then and that's the other
thing, I guess, isn't it the famous theme tune?
Yes, which? Which is, which is?
You can't dance to it, can you? It's not catchy.
Well, it's by the man who at least Larry Johnson, isn't it?
The man who wrote the Professionals theme, which you
absolutely can dance to. At least I do every time I hear
it. It's an involuntary thing.
Yeah, it's called, what is it called?
Gala performance. Yes, Gala performance, it's
called. And it's, it's, it's, it's
really because they play it over and over again.
Don't they use the refrain from it whenever anybody comes on?
Yes. So it becomes even more of a
weirdly contrived kind of programme.
It's just such an old looking programme now I think.
Didn't Bill Oddie turn it down and then get persuaded to do it?
Yeah, that was, I think that was in the Michael Asple years,
wasn't it because. Oh, of course it.
Was because I think it was anyway, ITV carried on after
Eamon Andrews died with with Michael Aspel, but then they
dropped the program and then it got picked up again by the BBC,
which is where it was when Spike, when Spike was was done
again, as it were. But the I think it ended really
because firstly, some celebrities were just not having
it. You know, modern day celebrities
didn't really want to be on it. And I think famously, Noel
Gallagher found got whiff of it and said absolutely not.
And the nature of celebrity had changed somewhat.
I suppose when it first started, it was a way of getting people,
getting to know the celebs and otherwise would be completely
unknown. But it led to all sorts of
embarrassing things, like they'd have people on, you know, I
think John the measurer was living in his wife's spare room
because his wife was having an affair with someone else when he
was on it. It was.
It was Hattie Jakes, wasn't it? Yeah.
Hattie Jakes, yeah. Yeah, and it just sort of ran
out of time. I mean it was still popular on
the BBC but nothing like the behemoth it was in the 70s in
particular. Just reeks of the 70s.
That kind of show I think. I don't suppose it would.
It would work today as well, because one of the attractions
of certainly watching it in the 70s would be that you'd get
clips, you'd get archive material, yeah, that you
wouldn't see otherwise unless it's on looks familiar or
whatever. That's yeah, that's a good, it's
a good point because we were totally starved of archive stuff
in those days, weren't we? Whenever there was, as you say,
looks familiar and then I think there was, what's it called?
It was Chris Searle doing a programme, wasn't it called, Was
it Plunder or was it there was another one?
Anyway, anything that had clips, even things like telly addicts.
Telly addicts, yeah, yeah, said said that before and recently on
Game Pod. Yeah.
That was that was, that was. If you were, if you were like
us, that was your weekly fix. I remember seeing the telly
goons for the first time on telly addicts.
You always remember that particular trauma.
Yes, as I described them looking like they'd be dragged from a
canal, Those puppets. OK, so Michael Aspel.
Why was why was Michael Aspel chosen?
Was there any particular reason? Because he's affable or I, I.
Just think he was Mr. Well, I mean, The thing is, Aspel's got
a a deserved reputation for actually being quite a smart
character as well, quite witty, you know, almost exactly the I
feel bad about Eamon, Eamon Andrews.
But yeah, Eamon Andrews couldn't deal with that.
And I think you see in the second Spike, one Spike is
again, trying to sort of deconstruct the whole experience
and undermine everything that's going on to an extent.
But I think Aspel's more of a match for that and sort of keeps
him a bit on the straight and narrow where Eamon just kind of
like just looks either grumpy or all at sea.
Well, I've seen Aspel staring him down staring Spike down
during rounds of Give us a clue so he knows how to handle him.
Absolutely. Well, the cameras aren't just
here for the reunion, but because tonight, ex Bombardier
Spike Milligan, this is your life.
You call this your life. I wonder why they waited till
73. Do we?
Do we know? I'm guessing it was because he
was possibly because it was an he was an awkward customer, if
there was any. I think 11 time the producer
Malcolm Morris said to Norma Farne, is there any way we can
guarantee he'll be so we can pounce as it were, and do the
program And she, you know, didn't you know for for a long
time? I think that was quite a
difficult thing. The only thing, that very
mercurial character that it was, the only thing he definitely
turned up to was his army reunion, which is why you get
the chaos that you get in the 1973 episode.
Yes, maybe. I don't know how much clout
Eamonn had in terms of guest selection, but maybe he'd been
sort of putting it off and putting it off because he knew
that Spike would just reduce him to a quivering mass.
Yeah, yeah, maybe. I don't know.
I think, I think Andrews was liable to be a quivering mass in
the face of anyone, even Stephen Hendry.
But but of course, by this point, by by 73, Spike was so
omnipresent because it was Adolf Hitler.
My partner's downfall had just been published.
He was appearing in the early 70s for Spike.
It was a real purple patch for him in terms of films.
He was in so many films in the early 70s and when when he was
on This is Your Life in in April 73, Alice's Adventures in
Wonderland. Was showing the cinema at the
cinemas in the cinemas where he played the Griffin and Sellers
of course was in that as well. But but he was he was obviously
he was on TV at his TV shows. He was guest on chat shows.
So it was inevitable that he would be, you know, they
couldn't they couldn't avoid having Spike on This is Your
life. See, I would have thought he
would would have been the prime type to say no, bugger off when
Eamon stretched out the Big Red Book, but nobody seemed to
acquiesce quite happily. Really didn't.
They I suppose, I think there's a kind of, there's the kind
which is going to be uncomfortable about programme
that some people have expressed, I think who'd even even the
people who've been on it, there's a kind of moral
blackmail thing going on, isn't there?
That's the other thing. You're sort of being strong
armed into it. And particularly because Spike
was at the Armoury reunion in, you know, in Bexhill, it would
have been quite a, a weird one to storm out of, wouldn't it?
I suppose since he was there with all of his friends.
It's yeah, it's, it's maybe he was just flattered.
Sometimes people are. Even though he did, he disguised
it well. Also, it's it's luck of the jaw
what spike you get day by day because you could have
effervescent spike, over the top spike, happy Spike basically.
Or you could have taciturn Spike.
But I guess he was cheered up generally by the Army reunion
anyway, and he's probably had a few drinks, I'm sure.
Yeah, and it's it's the other thing I suppose it's always in
the back of mind. They did used to go to great
attempts to try and stop the subject finding out.
Because basically the the idea was, and this is always what's
been kind of trotted out is that if the subject found out they
were going to be on it, then it would be cancelled.
And I think I forget now. Shame on me for not not trying
to find it out again. But there's definitely at least
one example of that happening. But on the other hand, I think
one of the biographies intimates that Spike might have known it
was coming. Maybe Norma, knowing what he was
like, didn't want to risk it. But she doesn't say that.
I think it said in one of the other ones that he might have
found out because as we'll go on to talk about, there was all
sorts of shenanigans just before it happened as well.
So it's, it's it's possible. I guess it's hard to, it's hard
to say. When it comes to preparing This
is your life program, let's say and Eamon Andrews error, this is
your life program, do you know how many weeks of and what the
process was and the shared workload involved?
There was a lot, I think, and I've certainly again, can't put
my finger on where I've read about it, but there's certainly,
I think there's, I think there is a book about the history of
the show actually, it was they had obviously it ran for a lot
of the year. I think there were about 26
episodes a year, something like that.
Good, good half year years worth of programming.
And they had obviously, I mean it was at a time when the
commercial TV channels had, you know, almost literally money to
burn. They were really loaded at the
time. And so I think they had a very
large production office which was doing subjects in parallel,
obviously. And it would be a lot of kind of
swearing people to secrecy, going through lots of agents, I
guess to get the various celebs booked in and to do and also to
fly people over from Australia and things like that, which they
did on a frequent basis. But I think the, the, the other
thing that's the, the real irony about this is your life in terms
of the ratings. You know, as I said, Spike
Milligan's 1973 episode topped the ratings.
But of course, it's nothing to do with who the subject of the
program is the ratings, because the whole point was it was kept
secret. So it was.
That's true. It wasn't like you were going to
say, oh, we'll watch This is your life tonight.
Spike Milligan on You didn't have a clue who was going to be
on. So it was like, you know, that's
why Spike Milligan and Jackie Paulo, not that I'm dissing
Jackie in terms of his popularity because he was huge
at the time and wrestling was a very big deal in those days.
But it wasn't anything to do with the subject.
It was just simply to do with the fact that everybody just put
this is your life on. Part of it was, oh, who's it
going to be? And then there was a general, oh
God, it's him. I can't stand that person or, or
oh great, he's one of my favourites.
But I don't think you were guaranteed to have a good time,
whether you like the subject or not really.
No, but I think, I think you'd stay for the first, you'd know
within the first minute who it was going to be.
So you'd switch over if it was Stephen Hendry?
Stephen's getting in the neck, isn't he?
You've mentioned already, you've touched on the fact that Norma
had to organise all this. Yep.
Choreograph it if you like and and manoeuvre things so that so
that Spike was going to be, they knew where he was going to be
and he was in Bexhill. Yep, at the zombie reunion D
battery. But it would appear that that so
when Spike left home that morning on his on route on his
way to the to the Army reunion, he thought he was being tailed,
according to Norma. According to Norma, we always
have to put it through through the Norma filter.
But yeah, the Spike, you know, apparently this researcher
wasn't very clever about covering his tracks.
And Spike spotted him and drove to the cop shop and said he was
being tailed. And the police arrested the
researcher because I think the producer of This Is Your Life
wanted eyes on Spike at all times because of the fact that
they needed him to be where he was meant to be because of the
whole camera setup was going to be there.
But then it ended up apparently this kind of farcical situation,
while the police didn't believe what he did, this poor
researcher was saying he was going, I'll work for this is
your life. And they were saying pull the
other one. So he was desperately trying to
get hold of his producer, Malcolm Morris, to get him to
confirm. But then Malcolm Morris didn't
want to tell the police because he didn't want to reveal the
secret. So but in the end, they did it.
He let the police into into the secret.
It seems odd to me that he would even even hesitate for a second
if if enormous to be believed, but they put out an alert over 2
counties to trace Spike Millingham.
I mean, did Spike seriously think that somebody ordered a
hit on him or something? Well, it begs the question,
doesn't it? I mean, I know that he was
paranoid at times, but that seems, that seems extraordinary.
I guess he might have just thought it was somebody.
Still, he was famous, and he was being.
Paparazzi's. Could be paparazzi as well.
Yeah, I guess it put in, but in the end the reason, as I say,
that they did it at the at Bexhill at the reunion was which
again would make it, there was always an element of outside
broadcast in it because the program typically started at the
subjects workplace usually or some event that they were going
to Eamonn Andrews would sneak out with his Big Red Book.
And then basically they'd they'd spirit the people away to TVA
theatre somewhere or ATV studio where they'd all sit.
And that would be just normal kind of studio stuff.
But in this case, of course it's all OB because it's all in some
function room in Bexhill. Yeah, and it's, it's, they've
not really dressed the set for the for this, aren't they?
It's Scott. It's one of the biggest
shambles. I think I've seen a programme of
that, you know, because standards were were held pretty
high for those kind of programmes really.
You know, it's a well ordered machine.
But apart from the, I mean, it's the sound is so bad.
That's the bit that they can't get right.
It's a echoey, echoey room, echoey location.
And it's just, it's just everybody's just talking because
it's like a party. Eamonn will not underline, not
be knocked off his tight schedule.
He will plow on despite the chaos going on around him.
Paddy Spikes, wife at the time, comes out with Laura Seeley,
Sean and Little Jane Jane guest of the show.
Absolutely. He keeps shouting where's Prince
Philip, keeps asking where Prince Philip is.
That's quite, that's quite funny, isn't it?
That's one of the funniest bits of it, just says it all the
time. I mean, the funniest bit I think
is right at the start when, well, after, you know, when
they're about to start the show proper.
And Eamon Andrews starts. And I think genuinely Spike
Minigan's saying has it started? Because I don't think he can
quite believe it's starting because there's so much noise
going on from everybody else that it's almost like you can't,
you can't be serious that we're starting now when there's still
this chaos going on. But as you say, Eamon, he plows
on. Plows on, plows on.
There's a couple of instances in the 73 episode when you and I
were speaking before recording where Spike appears underwhelmed
by some of the guests and overwhelmed by others.
And his his mum Florence flew over, especially from Australia.
And I thought he he didn't look that bothered that she was
there. No, it was, I mean, I guess he
saw her a lot because he used to go over there most years, didn't
he, to see her, I suppose. But no, it's it's it's the
general spike kind of doesn't look like he's wildly
comfortable, but then very few people did on this is your life
in my memory of it anyway. And but he seems to have a real
urge to talk over everyone all the time, doesn't he as well.
It's like people are talking like his poor brother starts to
try and tell something and in Spites just basically basically
alluding to the fact that he's not telling the story right.
I want to ask you about this. What was it?
The Lamanian army, Yes, yes, they.
I suppose you would say he was the genius behind it all.
He concocted the idea, this marvelous imagination he has, He
even thought of a national anthem for it.
It was based on the early Ben Hur film.
That was the silent one. Because of the way that the
programme is set up, I just don't think it makes for
appealing television. It's kind of, it's just an
uncomfortable watch. I find it, I, I generally always
found it even even when I was a kid.
But now it looks. It just, it's, it just looks,
you know, you're kind of like people are talking over each
other. It's terribly, badly miked up.
I I wonder about everybody else who was at the reunion.
It's kind of that that reunion's been completely ambushed.
They're like, yeah, absolutely. And it's all suddenly it's all
about Spike, which must be, you would have thought, must be a
slight tension anyway, because he's obviously become very rich
and famous and you know, and this kind of just exacerbates
it. But maybe I'm.
Open and written about them all very recently as well.
Exactly. But I'm just thinking, right, if
if I was a celebrity, John, which I'm not, I'm.
Getting there. You are to me, Tyler, You are to
me. Thank you, thank you.
If This Is Your Life was still a thing.
They would be relying on people, my loved ones and people who
know me to to decide guest selection and that sort of
thing. Whereas if I was asked myself,
I'd probably come up with a slightly different list if it
was down to me as to who I wanted to turn up on my episode
of This Is Your Life. I'm sure my list would be
different from my wife's. You know what I mean?
Yeah, I think that's possibly one of the failings of This is
Your Life, is that maybe some of the guests are not going to be
embraced so much by the actual subject as they are by the the
people that that know him and love him or her, you know?
Yeah. And there was I, no, I totally
agree. And the there was some really
kind of awkward moments in the past.
I mean, there was one very, really famous one.
Well, there was a Peter Davidson one which I well mentioned
earlier about Barrel Reed. And basically that was really
the producer of Doctor Who basically getting Barrel Reed to
be the star guest at the end because there were there was ATV
program coming up called Earth Shot with them in because she'd
been in Doctor Who. And when Sandra Dickinson found
out that they were going to have Barrel Reed, she actually went
to the people behind the program, said absolutely not,
Surely you can do better than that.
And he ended up flying over his aunt or something like that.
So certainly the family could intervene.
I mean, the really famous one was poor odd Alec Mccowan who
was ambushed and he wanted, he wanted the show to be scrapped
afterwards because his partner, Geoffrey Burridge, who's the
people who watched Blake Seven, He was Dorian in Blake Seven.
He died of AIDS and he'd been his partner for years and they
just didn't mention him at all. Yes, I heard about.
That and he also didn't like it because he was in a Jeffrey
Archer play at the time and he thought it was just cooked up
for publicity for the play. And I think the fact that
sometimes the reason that they were done at particular times
was a was sometimes for publicity purposes.
And he did, he really resented that and he didn't want it to be
to be transmitted. But in the end, they sort of
after the fact edited a reference to Jeffrey Burridge
into it. But I mean, Can you imagine that
you're going all the way through and your main partner in your
life who's died a couple of years ago, he's not mentioned
once. Yeah, I mean, there's there's
bound to be other instances where closeted gay men or women
have been subjects of this is your life have have partners out
out of the public eye and and that they have not been featured
on the program, I'm guessing. Yeah, and I think there was,
there's a famous, what was the other one?
That was Vincent Price. I must have read a book about
this at some point, but I can't remember when there was AI think
Vincent Price came back, did the American one, I think came back
from England where he'd been making Theatre of Blood and he'd
fallen in love with Colin Brown and went back home.
And his wife in the meantime, have been working with the
people behind This is Your Life to do it.
This is Your Life as soon as he got back.
And so that was mega awkward. So I think there's there's lots
of and The thing is, I suppose the idea is it's a nice thing
and it also gives you some publicity for, you know, just in
your general career. And it was a sort of you've
reached a part of your career where you can be on this is your
life. But then why would celebrities,
you know, even at the time, after a while, why would they
think, what am I getting out of this?
And potentially there's lots of kind of pitfalls as we've talked
about. So yeah, it's, it's, I think, I
just think as I say, it's reflected in the actual program.
I mean, it's strange. Then it it sort of felt because
you didn't, as you say, you didn't get clips very often.
And it was a sort of look inside of the celebrity life, which
didn't wasn't as ubiquitous as it is now.
And you know, now that celebrities have things like
hello magazine, social media and all of those kind of things, but
it just looks very odd now. And just as I say, it's a kind
of, I mean, you know, I'm so young, people like it, but you
just get this. I thought it was funny when the
brother comes out and then they introduce separately Spike's
sister-in-law, Nadia. And I thought, no, I thought.
Nadia looked quite slightly weary of Spike, I thought.
She did and and that the then their son young Michael.
Am I right in thinking that Spike had not met his nephew up
to that point? That was the first.
Time, I'm not sure I was going to ask you that, actually I'm
not sure, but he certainly he gets him to rugby tackle him,
doesn't he? Yeah, he pretend he's scoring a
try. Yeah.
Which if it is the first time that this whatever 10 year old
boy has met his famous uncle, that that must have been
mortifying or fun, I suppose. I don't know if you're a 10 year
old, maybe. I don't know.
And there's some good guests on here, don't get me wrong.
And, and, and the sort of guests that you would expect, but also,
I mean, who decided to get a woman who ran the canteen when
Spike was was in military prison?
Yeah, back in the 40s. And the heavy implication is
that he shagged her as well. Yeah.
Pearl Chapman. Yes, that, that that's just,
yeah, that's, that's just the kind of thing I, I mean, I, I
don't understand. I mean, I do think it's a
totally shambolic program, but there are, there are some nice
moments. And also, we should add, it's
edited to bits at times. There's God, you can tell.
Yeah, there's loads in fact. In fact, that Pearl Chapman, I'm
sure it's her, her bit, she starts out telling a story and I
think she gets halfway through and even says, thank you, Pearl
Chapman. And it and yeah, and obviously
you get, I think, I think he looks genuinely, which is
interesting considering their their slightly frosty
relationship at times. I thought you look really
pleased to see Michael Benti when Michael did, which yes,
which I thought was that that was nice.
That was a nice moment, I thought.
And the and obviously your your favorite, of course, Tyler
Sellers in his German helmet. Tell us about Well, we had.
He used to live up in an attic. He was known as the prisoner of
Zender. You see, Jimmy Grafton had an
attic in the pub right up the top.
He used to have to push this door that was in the floor.
Actually, the door was very dangerous.
He decapitated a cat. One day he came down and you had
to watch your feet and everything.
We had it for dinner. Yes, they.
Were really bad. And also in this pub, they had a
mad bulldog called Bulla, you see, and this bulldog used to go
ape, you know, completely mad because they had a monkey there
as well. Zoo, you see.
Right, Yes. And the monkey used to leap on
the bulldog's back in the bar and ride it around like a
jockey, you know. And he would try to throw it off
and he'd go smack into the wall, you see.
And the monkey would leap off and wouldn't you know, it wasn't
harmed, but the bulldog very dazed, you see, and start off
the monkey again. Now, I had seen this program
before many years ago. I've seen it a few times and
watch that a few or watch clips of it at least over the years,
Right. So I knew that Sellers was
turning up on it, but it was quite unexpected, I suppose.
And maybe if it had been a couple of years later, Sellers
wouldn't have turned up or he'd have come.
He'd have been on Vt. Yeah, because this was Sellers
wilderness years, period. Really.
He was. He wasn't really working much at
this point of 73. I think he was filming.
That must be soft bedside battles, wasn't he?
Yes, he was. Yes he was.
And he turns up in this in his habitual garb of the the long
leather trench coat and the German army helmet.
Do you think he used to sleep in that?
Well, we remember we talked about the film I Love You LSB
Tockless, didn't we? A few years ago.
And there's a scene in that of Venice Beach where his character
is at this hippie market and there's a German army helmet for
sale and Sellers eyes just rest upon it fraction too long.
The I mean that that's a good moment when Sellers comes on
because, and again, it's like it's cut together like
experimental film, isn't it? Because the edits are all over
the place. They're jumping around.
Spike drops his trousers as soon as Sellers comes on, and there's
a general uproar in the in with the guests, isn't there as well.
So, so so that that is a funny moment.
But then, of course, like a like a snowflake, suddenly Sellers is
gone. Well, yeah, so so the moment
sellers comes out mad bounce and and then sellers who I'm sure
I'm not. Positive.
I'm sure Sellers was under the influence of something here.
He just seemed a little bit a little bit zoned out.
And at one point when he's telling his story about
Grafton's, he's staring straight down the camera lens, isn't he?
Yes. And he's doing that classic
because he whenever he tells an anecdotes, you see at the end of
every sentence. Isn't he that kind of does
anecdote. Yes, he does.
Anecdote voice. He does.
He talks about Spike in Grafton's Pub back in the day
being known as the prisoner of Zender, which was, he was, he
was to make a terrible version of a few years later.
And he tells the story of the monkey riding a bulldog, which
delighted Spike. But there was no real punchline
to that story. Yeah.
And then he goes and sits down. He, he it seems like they didn't
capitalize having sellers on. He, he, he was on and off.
Pretty smartish, really. But again, that's probably down
to the edit. Yeah, I think, I think it's I
think they had to edit obviously a lot out and and then according
again going back to Norma, apparently she wanted to leave
after the show was done and he basically got an early car
because he wanted to get back to Liza Minnelli.
He had a warm Liza Minnelli waiting for him at home.
Exactly. So Norma was was to have
travelled to Bexhill in a car laid on by Tim's television.
But Sellers wanted her to travel with, according to Norma wanted
her to travel, insisted that she travel with him in his car.
But apparently, again, according to Norma's account, because he
was filming soft beds, hard battles, he, he had his head
shaved, but he didn't because he took the helmet off during the
program and he's got this unkempt bird nest hair flopping
around. So I'm not.
So obviously there's some memory failing there, I suppose on her
part. Yeah, absolutely.
So yeah, you would just have to treat everything with kind of
slight caution, don't you really?
Just looking here again, I'm I'm going from Norma's account.
They arrived at Bexhill and apparently Sellers was throwing
his weight around a little bit and he told one of the
researchers that they wanted a bottle of champagne and smoked
salmon sandwiches. But they weren't for Peter, they
were for Norma. He'd he'd ordered them for
Norma. Always, always thinking of
others. Absolutely selfless to a fault.
Yeah. And again, according to Norma,
when, when the producer Malcolm, is it Malcolm Morris?
Yeah, Yeah. When he walked in and saw Norma
there with a glass of champers and a sandwich, he was furious
because he because he thought she'd ordered them on the Thames
account. But then she she calmed him down
by telling him that it was it was Peter's idea.
But yeah, he he's there, but he's not really there.
I think he's he's there in body, but not in spirit.
Maybe Peter Sellers? Yeah, it's, I suppose he's the
biggest star on it, isn't he really, you know, at that time?
And it's it's the other nice bit I liked, even though it's quite
odd that Harry Secombe on both, on both occasions wasn't in the
studio for This Is Your Life for Milligan.
But there's a nice bit where Seccomb's reminiscing about the
song they used to sing and they both start singing it
simultaneously, even though they're obviously he's on, he's
on Vt or film or whatever. Yeah, which is nice.
And I think the, the, the other bit that's quite interesting on
it is the, the Robert Graves section, where Robert Graves,
the poet and of course the author of I, Claudius, amongst
other things, he's got a kind of quite nice relationship with
Spike. But then it starts Spike says,
because it's very odd, because he's got very kind of big white
hair, isn't he, Robert Graves And the sun's shining behind it.
So Spike says that his hair's on fire or something like that.
I can't remember exactly what he says.
And he sort of kind of can't even be quiet even when Robert
Graves. But then by the end of it, Spike
reacts quite weirdly to it and I'm thinking is he is he moves.
I couldn't. I couldn't tell.
Said some some rambling yarn about him and Spike at the
Mermaid Theatre. I didn't really get the point of
it and towards the end Spike goes hurry up Robert.
But they were such close friends and you shared some information
that Spike's biographer Pauline Scootermore had put together
about. Apparently Spike was most
delighted by Robert Graves's appearance, which I wouldn't
have said. But again, it's the edit.
Maybe you don't know, do you? If anything I I would have said
Spike was maybe a little bit embarrassed by because Graves
was rambling a bit in the bit that we saw anyway.
Yeah, I, I, I think it's certainly, it's, it's an odd
thing, but he did, as you say in the Scudamore biography, there's
a very full quote from a letter that Spike wrote to Robert
Graves, obviously far too, far too long to sort of, but he just
says, you know, he's delighted, as you say, to the unexpected
film and just talks at great length about, you know, and
it's, they're obviously really, really good friends, but it's
just, it's just Spike. It's a bit like the when the
brothers trying to tell an anecdote.
I think Spike always wants people to tell anecdotes in a
way that he would tell them. Yes, basically like.
Robert Robert Graves certainly can't do that.
No. Just back to Harry, actually, it
was, it was a bit difficult to hear because it was a lot of
noise. But when when they had Harry on
Vt and then he finished his bit or his bit finished.
I'm sure Amy Andrews said that he was in Swansea, presumably
working and I'm sure Spike went Swansea or he said as if he
questioned the fact that he was in Swansea, not 1,000,000 miles
away. Surely he could have made the
effort. That's exactly the way I read
it, you know, saw it as well. It's, it's odd because
especially when you've got people kind of coming over from
New Zealand and Australia and, and whatever it, Swansea doesn't
seem too far to go. So it's it.
It is interesting. From Lance Boldi Secom 924378.
Yes. Thank you for the laughs over
the years. Yes.
And you owe me money. Don't forget all the fun we had
together. Yeah, Those unrepeatable days.
Some of them. Thanks.
I want to tell it all later on. And.
Great bloke to work with and next time we have a reunion I
hope to be there right then. Now get out.
Get out. Thank you, Harrington.
Come in. Swansea in.
Swansea, you get his former band members from from the Army band
Al Fyldes, Doug Kitchell, Chalky White and Jimmy Devine, and you
get Sergeant Jordy Dawson and of course, Harry Edgington on on Vt
from New Zealand. His story seems to baffle Spike
a bit. Again, it's all, it's all just.
And again, this is probably largely just down to Spike being
Spike, having that sort of face and putting on those He can't.
It's like Spike can't be, can't relax, can't be himself.
He's always got to be on. And yeah, it's difficult really
to say which guest worked the best, if you know what I mean.
Maybe Eric Sykes at the end? I think Eric Sykes but is the
best, isn't it? Because he's slightly sending it
up, but he he does the job because they sort of parodying
the fact he's going to talk about what a wonderful human
being is. But then Sykes kind of seems to
collide past all the chaos, doesn't he?
Something about him maybe. Maybe it's partly to do with the
fact that he's so profoundly deaf, things don't impact on him
in quite the same way as they do for the others.
Would you say that that Sykes was Spike's truest friend
through all the years, did you say?
That think so I, I, yeah, I think I'd say so.
He, I mean, he, I mean, it was, they worked so closely together,
didn't they? For so long, right from the
start above the grocery shop and even before that.
So I, I, yeah, that that's how it comes across, I think.
You just get the feeling that Spike would be most comfortable
in Sykes's company. I mean, he would be with Sal as
he would be with Secum and and and the like, but you just get
the feeling that Sykes is probably the one that he would.
Yeah, and it's the kind of character that Sykes is, isn't
it as well, though? Because he's kind of kind of
phlegmatic, isn't he? Kind of not.
He's not. He's not desperate to perform
and try and outdo people when they're there.
It's not like that kind of relentless and sometimes
exhausting nervous energy that that Spike, Peter and and even
Harry have actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And yes, I mean, through, through it all, Spike's
demanding still to see Prince Philip.
And oh, and he says, I said about Eamonn Andrews being a bit
tetchy when when Eamon mentions brings up the war and he
mentions Adolf Hitler and Spike says he's not here tonight, is
he? And then Eamon and I guess this
must have been a bit that was edited out because Eamon, that's
the second time he's used that line or said that.
Did you pick up on that? I didn't know.
I didn't. He said something like that.
He said, oh, that's only the second time you said that, Spike
or something, something like that.
Yeah, handbags definitely there. Get Jimmy Crafton, of course,
and there's mentions of his plays and his books and the the
causes that he supports and Paddy, his wife talks about
those in particular. It just it's shambolic
throughout it it there's there's no beginning to it.
And it just kind of ends with D Battery Band playing out with
Spike on trumpet. Or not on trumpet because he
can't seem to get a note out of the trumpet.
Oh, it's awful. And then, and then, and then,
bizarrely, Harry Edgington turns up in the flesh, having been on
Vt, and Spike again, just seems OK Whatever.
I mean, that was quite a common trick They used to pull on This
is Your life. Have a guess that Yeah, yeah.
They used to have a guest early on as if they're not there and
then suddenly bring them on. That was quite common.
Double whammy they used to try and do.
So. I mean, you know, as I say, I
really started watching it properly from I guess about
197576 when I was kind of old enough to take it in.
But certainly at that point that was quite a, that was quite a
familiar way of dealing with things.
The other thing that made me laugh a bit was when they show,
it's so primitive when they show pictures of his books, they're
not actually still photos, are they?
They're a camera on somebody's put when it's on, I think the
Book of Millie Animals, you see the shadow of a finger.
Because. It basically just pulled one
book out and put another one in and that shattered her fingers
there. That made me laugh for some
reason. It was.
There. Yeah, it was very.
Homemade. So Spike wrote of that
appearance. I'm not sure who he wrote to or
where he wrote this, but he said waiting for me was Eamonn
Andrews and Spike Milligan tonight.
This is your life. I was nonplussed, flabbergasted.
All my family was there, including my mother, all the way
from Australia with Desmond and Nadia.
Peter Sellers came dressed as a German soldier and denied all
knowledge of me. Harry Secombe overwhelmed me
with praise and it ended with a Raspberry, to which I replied
tenfold. Yeah.
And one of the other things about This is Your Life, I
think, is that it didn't get reviewed that often because it
was one of those things that you don't know who's going to be on
it. So it doesn't get previewed.
And then you watch it and then, you know, it's it's an episode
of This Is Your Life, but with a different celebrity.
But there were a few reviews. And I do like the the contrast
between a couple of the scant newspaper reviews of that that
episode. According to the Lincolnshire
Echo, it was better than most scripted comedies, which I think
is a big claim. Yes, my dear, possibly.
Or Korean chips, indeed, but the but the the other echo, the
Liverpool Echo, by contrast, said Spike Milligan made a
surprisingly uninteresting subject.
For this is your life. So to you know, you take you pay
your money and takes your choice there.
You do, you do. And then second time round, Fast
forward 22 years. 22 years. Yeah, because I remember around
this time. So we, we obviously had little
groveling bastard or groveling little bastard.
I always forget which order it is.
But in December 94 for the British Comedy Awards, which
just dominated the tabloids for what seemed like weeks, Spike
was all over the the papers and and the the media for what
seemed like about six months. At least he was he, he had
currency again, didn't he? He was, you know, turning up on
chat shows, turning off things like Clive Anderson and, and all
sorts of things. And I guess the reason that they
did this, this is your life was because of that really.
Because he was big news again, really.
Would you would you say, was that cynical of me?
No. I mean, it seems like a awful
coincidence, doesn't it? I mean, he said.
I guess. When was it that he did the
groveling little bastard? It was at the Comedy Awards,
wasn't it? Yeah, it was.
It was what, 222 literally 2 months before?
Is this is your life? I mean, it was the same
producer. It just feels a little bit like
a kind of quite speedy turn around time because it was done
on the 24th of January. Oh, maybe.
So yeah, it wasn't shown until about a month later.
Yeah, 15th of February. So that feels a bit short.
But then on the other hand, I guess they could be
opportunistic. It's not like it's a
exhaustively researched thing you would have thought in those
days. Like if they've got a decent
kind of team and you've already done it once and presumably have
the stuff that you could turn it around quickly.
It just feels a little bit quick.
But yeah, it seems, it also seems to me to be a hell of a
coincidence that it's timed in that way as well.
So, you know, and as, and it's not like it's some pure at heart
thing. This is your life, you know,
there, there was a lot of you scratch my back, I'll scratch
yours about it. You know, in terms of in terms
of there was sometimes vested interest in why people wanted to
be on it or why their agent wanted them to be on it.
So yeah, it's do. Do you know if and I suppose
this would never happen? Or any instances of actual
celebrities angling to be on This is Your Life or getting
their people, their agents to kind of put a word in.
I, I, I don't know of any specific ones, but I can't
believe that there wouldn't be because, you know, it's a,
there's a lot of vanity around. Rodney pews, maybe?
Oh, God, yeah. He'd be all all over them like a
rash, wouldn't he? I mean, he may well have been on
it for all I know. To be honest, I didn't.
I didn't do an exhaustive. It'd be.
Yeah, but then would you want to risk James Bolen, notoriously
crabby, cantankerous man, being on it?
But then again, he might have been.
But he, it's the kind of the Danny Blanchfire thing was the,
you know, the invasion of privacy thing as far as they
were concerned. And I think, you know, someone
like Bolen would probably be the same.
But I'll no doubt after this go and have a look at the list and
he'll be there and he'll be there at the time of his life.
He'll. Be there, Yeah.
Do you want, do you want to just briefly set the scene as to how
they. So it's Michael Asper's time
with The Red Book, how they approached Spike in 95.
Yeah, it's kind of chaotic in a different way.
I think, again, going from Norma's book on this, though,
she does say that basically Spike was doing something at the
BBC at Pebble Mill, though for some reason she says it's in
Manchester, which of course it isn't, it's in Birmingham so
either. And he was coming into Houston
station, so I'm guessing it was Birmingham rather than rather
than BBC Manchester. He was coming down on the 11:30
train to Houston station. So basically they waited.
Michael Aspel and the team waited at Houston, but they
didn't know until 5 minutes before what platform it was due
to come in on. So it's due to come in on
platform 5. They rushed to platform 5.
Then there was an announcement that it had been changed to
platform 2. So the whole lot scrambled along
to platform 2 and then it was said it was platform 5 again.
So they all had to run back. So it's chaos for the for the
camera crew and Michael Aspel. But then they also put a big
thing on the the electronic notice board thing in the
timetable, the arrivals board. Yes, they put a message saying
Spike Milligan, this is your life or words to that effect.
And of course, Spike was in a world of his own and didn't see
it. We've gone to a spectacular
lengths to set our trap, as you'll see in just a moment.
Attention, please, This is a special announcement.
Mr. Mike Spike Milligan. Spike Milligan, would you please
look at the arrival occasion, please?
Special announcement. Mr. Spike Milligan or Mr.
Milligan, please look up at the arrival.
Hello. Spike, hello.
Fancy seeing you? Have you looked up there?
It says arrivals. Yes, that's what I am.
I'm an arrivals. This is your life.
Lots of people with surprises and things you've never even
thought of done at the television set.
I've been dead 10 years. Nobody.
Concluded that, but of course, as you, as you pointed out, he
was people far from thought he was dead.
I mean, because he was, he was very much in the news, wasn't he
at the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He was busy this period, wasn't he?
He was, I mean, the first thing that it has to be said, it's
brutal to see, to go from 1973 to 1995 because he looks very
frail. I thought I was a bit shocked
about how frail he looked actually, though I suppose he
was kind of really going on at that point.
He was frail at the Comedy Awards, but he was also that was
heightened maybe, or more lessened baby.
I'm not sure by the booze he'd been he'd been knocking back.
But yeah, he, he, the, yeah, he, I know that Jane has said that
he was because of his health, he was on a lot of drugs,
prescription drugs, and they were affecting his speech and
his reaction times, and he just slowed down.
And you just, you sort of one of the things, and I think one of
his daughters actually says to him that you just start to feel
as well. I did when I was watching it
again, it kind of made me uncomfortable that every time a
new guest came on, he sort of felt compelled to stand up.
But by the end of it, he looks absolutely knackered having to
do that all the time. And it was kind of, I think his
daughter says to him, but I'm sure she said something like
don't, don't, don't get up, you don't need to get up or
something like that in his, in his ear.
And it's, it's, I mean it, there's some, there's some funny
bits. I like the fact that when the
family stopped coming on, he says why are they all wearing
black, which I think is a good line.
And then it's nice to see you seek him again.
But again, he's not there in person, which is.
Oh God, I mean, thing is, and I've said this before recently,
I know, I know that regular listeners will know that I do
repeat myself and I apologise, but it's my show, so up yours.
But Harry, when was it? What were we talking about?
We were talking, oh, we were talking about a few weeks ago,
we were talking about the Channel 4 Heroes of Comedy
series and talking about the episode on the goons and, and
Harry was interviewed. But he always tells the same
stories, always tells the same stories Whenever the whenever
he's being interviewed about the goons, there's no very few very,
he's got this three or four set anecdotes that he'll try out.
And as, as in this with with with his, he's, he's on a live
feed from Bristol. He's he's doing Pickwick and
he's talking about the time, the supposed time that Spike wanted
the sound of somebody being hit with a sock full of custard.
So goes to the canteen and ask them to make him a nice custard.
And then he pours it into his sock and hits it against the
wall and then turns and says, Oh, it's not the right sound.
And, and he's told that story so many times and it's, it's, it's
been proven to be rubbish. And even Spike says that's an
absolute bloody lie. There's also there's the choice
of they showed, they showed three clips they said about
right at the beginning Asphalt mentions he, he got the lifetime
achievement award in December. And then they show they showed 2
clips from Q and one from the last green show of all where
spikes doing little jimmies fall in the water.
And I just thought that the clips were badly selected.
They were poorly selected. They were.
They could have got much better clips I felt.
Yeah, the, I mean, the sometimes that might be a financial thing,
I guess, but you know, it's ABBC show the I on the one hand,
superficially it's less shambolic than the 1973 one, but
it's all, it's still a bit kind of it's slapdash isn't.
It as I was watching these so I watched them one after the
other. I came to this conclusion as I
said as and this is what I wrote down as is the nature of
programs like this where they're constrained by time and trying
to tell a person's life in 30 minutes.
It all ends up being rather unsatisfying and often the
guests and the stories they choose to tell fall a bit flat
and and that's very much in evidence here.
Although I was impressed by his old command.
Was it Jack Lehman who comes out with with other members of D
Company? I guess again spikes old war
comrades, but Jack Lehman, he's every inch the the dapper
military gentleman with a smart white wax moustache.
He's he's straight out of Colditz, isn't he?
The the TV series? Spike in military discipline
were not compatible, I believe. No, I wouldn't say that in
action. He was absolutely splendid.
I got the I got mentioned in dispatches, not by me, no, but
out of out of action. He was absolutely wonderful.
We put a little show on in Algeria and we toured it down to
a delightful little port called Boujee.
And there there was some cream and white wrens out fresh from
England be sporting themselves in the sea.
And suddenly they saw what they thought it was a white sharks
fin going through the water. And it was Spike with a with a
with a plaster cast we picked up in the in the basement of a
theatre. That's why I'm all screaming
like man, Spike and the water. I think the best bit of this,
this 95 show is when they're talking about the war, because
there's a very nice, quite moving bit where Spike talks
about the shell shock. And he's very, he's serious once
and he talks about being put in the back of a truck with other
soldiers who were injured in one way or another.
And as they're going over bumps, Spike, because of his, because
he's in shock, is shaking. And he said there's a soldier
sat next to him with his arm in a, in like a bloody sling.
And this other soldier put his arm around Spike to just to
comfort him, I guess to try and calm him down.
And Spike said something like, if if you're watching this mate,
thanks so much. You know, because he didn't, he
never knew what happened to that soldier.
But I thought that was very no, it was very nice.
There were, there were there. I was going to mention that one
as that bit as well. And there's, there's basically
immediately after that, there's then the Tony Pantani, the great
love of Spike's life comes on, who you met in Italy is a ballet
dancer. And she comes on and that's
quite moving as well because she sort of talks about you will
give me a tear. And he's obviously got a tear in
his eye. And that's quite a moving
moment. And apparently, again, according
to Norma, after the show, she was she was married, but her
husband was very sympathetic. They did used to meet quite a
lot, particularly when she moved to France, her and Spike, But
she said let's run away together And he said, Oh no, we're too
old, which is quite sad. And kudos, I guess, to Spike's
wife, then wife, Sheila. She could have knocked that on
the head in terms of having her as a guest, I suppose.
Yeah, she could. She could.
But then we'll get on to who wasn't there in a in a in a
similar sort of vein to. Of course.
Oh yes. Yes, maybe in a bit.
The the other thing that I thought was quite funny was
Johnny Spate, because Spike looks like there's a brilliant
bit because again, cut I'm sure. But Johnny Spake turns up and
goes on a bit and Spike goes. I thought he'd never go.
That was funny. And it's also Roger Mcgough
comes out, former guest Goon Pod.
He comes out and he reads a couple of spiked poems and he's
it's weird. He's weirdly one of the youngest
people there. It is.
It is weird. It's also, and I like Roger, but
he reads them really badly. Really, really badly.
Everyone knows Spike. Spike as a as a comic genius and
muck spreader. But I always know Spike as well
as a serious poet, and is this because he writes very seriously
about the dark things of life, which you know, when the light
bulbs fuse darkness everywhere, and he's going to write.
Can I do one of your Spike? God, it's well arranged that 5
lbs was well spent. There's a pod.
Serious pod. Dumb got title.
Don't have the title that goes call Eric.
Eric, send me simmering. Then to my glassy grave.
Leave the empty fireplace. Liberate the slave.
Look last at the butter cups and the Carter's Lane.
The blinds are pulled, the kettle boiled.
Was it all in vain? But it wasn't spiking long way.
You did. You did.
Yes, you did. Thank you, Rodney.
And then Barry Humphrey sort of talks about himself quite a bit,
his bit. And Spike looks slightly
puzzled. Well, he took Barry being Ernest
Barry talking about Spike giving him one of his earliest breaks.
He he gets a telegram from Spike offering him second lead in the
bed sitting room play again. They mentioned causes that Spike
supports now. Bizarre choice of guess this
John Paul Getty Junior in a in in, I swear as a bad wig.
I'm sure, I'm sure that's a wig. Oh yeah.
It's got to be.
The It's particularly striking because he was very reclusive.
Odd it is they. They, they got together, they
knew each other through because he was a philanthropist, wasn't
he? So I guess they, they knew,
yeah. I mean, he was.
The thing is, he used causes and things like that lots.
Lots of people like Mick Jagger was a big friend of Getty and
Getty had a full size cricket pitch in his in his garden with
a with a stand as well. And they used to often do, used
to do a lot of kind of Lord Stavanners celebrity cricket
matches in the grounds of Getty's mansion.
But he was, he didn't. And he was, he gave a lot of
money to the BFI as well, British Film Institute.
But he was not, he wasn't seen often.
He wasn't kind of like, yeah. And it was his son that was
kidnapped. Famously, wasn't it?
Yeah, and also, Getty was also a drug addict.
For a number of years. Well, kind of like a couple of
decades, I guess, and he'd managed to get off drugs.
And yes, it was a famous thing that it's quite a tangled tale.
I wouldn't want to summarise it. But you know, the way it was
typically summarised was that he just refused point blank to pay
the ransom. And the son had a finger cut
off, didn't he, I think from memory.
And it was. So it's just very, I guess it's
a tribute to Spike that John Paul Getty would turn up on ATV
programme with a, with a, with a joke that Spike had given a
framed pound note, wasn't it? In the event of bankruptcy,
break class? Yes, yes.
So it adds to a certain surreal moment.
Towards the end, isn't it? Yeah.
And obviously they've got the family as well, I mentioned.
Sheila got the the children, all the children.
There's a mention of Spike's latest project which is the
film, the short film The Big Freeze and A and a clip which is
a dreadful clip. Have you ever seen The Big
Freeze? I, I I.
Regret. I have not we will be covering.
It next year on goon pod. It's it's a short film that Eric
made spikes in it, obviously, but it it ushers in Eric again.
Eric's the the final guest. Oh, no, he's not the final
guest. Sealy and Laura's children and
husbands are the final guests, but Eric is the penultimate
guest. And it's that's again, that's a
lovely that's probably again, that probably the best bit The
the the like 2 old men doing a routine, aren't they?
Yeah. And in fact, I think I was
confusing. I was mixing the 2 when I.
Said earlier that they're talking about giving each of the
gushing tributes, aren't they? As a joke.
Oh right, yes, yeah, it's it's in the it's in the later one
that they. Do that, but no, I think.
I think Sykes is a class act, isn't he?
And and as I think we, you know, we mentioned when we were
talking about preparing this, he's in a much better this is
your life devoted to him, which was a Christmas special I seem
to recall as well. And that's that's that's much
better just because Sykes being a more kind of centred person.
I mean, it's not perfect. It's this is your life which as.
I've outlined it's not. My idea of a perfect show.
I'm sure from memory Spike comes out with Johnny.
Spate during that it's spike in a bath chair something like that
and Tommy Tommy Cooper takes about. 10 minutes to come on
when it when he assist, which is, which is very, very funny
because it's a classic. You know, all of the I think
Clive James wrote about that when he was ATV reviewer about
that episode where basically Eric Sykes Fain's concern, but
well, Spike Milligan's weeping with laughter.
It's very, it's a very, it's a nice moment.
So it's it is what it is. It's entertaining enough.
There's a, there's a for the time, a very rare clip of the
Bill Hall trio, which Spike is delighted to see, genuinely
looked absolutely made-up to see that, that clip.
But there's not much, I mean, of the two, I guess the 73 is the
better. This is your life, just because
Spikes got a bit more life to him, really.
You've got Sellers in it. You've got just just just a bit
more happening. This 95 episode is a little bit
sterile. Yeah, No, I agree.
It's not. It's not.
I suppose you take out the shambolic and it just becomes
very sort of safe and and as you say, it's kind of airless, not
kind of just a bit down pat, isn't it?
Whereas at least with the 70s version you had a fair chance of
there being a kind of somewhat mitigated chaos, which is
slightly more interesting to watch than a kind of kind of
sausage machine kind of thing that the the later 1 is.
You mentioned before there was 1.
Person that wasn't a guest in the 95 edition.
And I remember when this was, this was all over the Sunday
papers. I think it was about 9192 when
it was revealed that Spike had a a son, another son called James.
Did Spike meet him or? Yeah.
Have they just spoken on the phone or something?
I'm not, I think. I think they'd met and he paid
for him to go to public school, didn't he?
I think. Oh, OK, that that story had.
Broken. And it just shows you how kind
of like, you know, they really will latch onto anything.
The press, apparently after the This is Your life, it was again
on the front page. It was on the front page of a
The Sunday Sun, which is a NE Sunday newspaper because that's
where Spike's secret son, as he was called, and the mum lived.
They lived up north and basically it ran and ran for
about, you know, about a couple of weeks really, that most
newspapers had an article about the fact that after the event
that this is your life. Spike was very upset that he
wasn't included in the program and rang up to apologize.
But then there were a kind of a lot of interviews with the
mother and son and it kind of slightly spiralled, I guess at
that point. And there was some critical
articles as well that sort of suggested because basically the
This is Your Live production team apologized.
But they ultimately the kind of boss there made the decision
because I think Sheila and others weren't entirely sure of
what would be for the best. That's, that's what the guy said
anyway, whether that's whether that's the case because the
family, all the kids had never met before.
They hadn't all been in because it was a second, second secret
kid wasn't there. And so they made that decision,
but they apologized if it caused any problems.
And obviously they couldn't have Spike making the decision.
And that goes back to what you were talking about.
You know, the person who's the actual subject of it gets no
say. And by the time that they've
done it, it's over. There's not a lot they can do
about it unless you're Alec Mccowan who tried to try to get
the program scrapped in his instance so that that kind of
ran. And it's also covered in the
various biographies of it. And it's clearly an upsetting
time. I don't, I don't think in the
end, I think some articles suggested why hasn't Spike just
got all the kids together anyway if they'd already met before
then. But I suppose some of them lived
in Australia and so on, didn't they?
So it's tricky. I mean, the other bizarre press
reaction to which, you know, it sort of talks speaks to what
we've been talking about. But there was somebody called
Molly Blake in the Birmingham Evening Mail.
Oh yes, I saw that. Did a review where she just
basically said is it kind to wheel?
People out when they're so. Terribly tottery and past their
prime at 9. At 77, he's no longer funny.
On last night's showing, Spike Milligan has become a rather sad
old man. Which is sort of put in the boot
in. But then she seemed to weirdly,
the following week, and I've never heard anybody say this,
that that that it was Howard Keel, the singer and actor,
musical theatre singer and actor, who was in Dallas playing
Clayton Farlow, who's meant to miss Ellie.
You get me on to Dallas now. Oh, dear.
And but he's described by this Molly Blake as that horrible
Howard Keel. And again, she took but I mean,
I don't think I've ever heard anyone in in history refer to
Howard Keele as the horrible Howard Keele.
He's supposed to be. Everything I've ever heard about
him suggest he was a really nice guy.
And so she clearly had a problem.
I'm sure Howard Keele was a lovely man.
I think. I think he was.
I just think. She, she.
Basically, she she. Says that there's been too many
old duffers on This Is Your Life recently.
It's very ageist. Well, yeah.
And then they get they complain if it's too young, like Stephen.
Hendry. I know, Stephen.
It all comes around to Stephen. Hendry again.
OK, now I wrote down a list of what I consider to be notable
guest omissions. OK, by that I mean.
He or she should have been. On at least one of the two
editions. So first of all, and I know she
was obviously very much involved in the organising of all these
of these two shows, but I'm surprised they didn't actually
bring Norma out as a guest. Yes, that's true.
That's true. Spike couldn't function without.
Her Could he? No.
Absolutely.
Maybe. Maybe Norma didn't want to be
on. Maybe she.
Wanted to kind of remain in the background.
It was Peter Sellers. Yes.
Yeah. With the with the smoked salmon
and the champagne. Now.
For me, and again, maybe he didn't.
Want to do it maybe he was asked John Antrebus.
Yes, that, yeah. I mean, he would have been fine.
He. Wasn't that old then, was he?
Oh, God. Nobody's still with us.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Hi, this is Tyler. In the future, I'm sorry to say
that in between recording this and the show going out, we were
very saddened to learn of the passing of John Andrebus, aged
92. He he died a couple of days ago
on the 15th of December, having lived a very full and very
successful life. And he was pretty much the last
direct link we have to the goons as a, as a collaborator, I guess
not including Dick Lester because he had no involvement
with the radio series. And a few months back we did a
special show as a salute to John, where me and Mike Haskins
look back at his life and career.
Well, as much as we could within the constraints of 19 minutes or
so. And Peter ambling of the of the
GSPS, told me John had heard it and was happy with it, which I
was so glad to hear because he was obviously very frail and
I'll at that point and his, his partner Nicole was moved by it
apparently. And it makes me really happy
that we were able to show that there are still people who enjoy
and admire John's work to this very day, that he wasn't
forgotten. Anyway, ROP, John, thanks for
everything. Now back to the show.
And The thing is right, I think he had better claim than Spate.
Spike had a much longer working relationship with John
Andreibus. You know, they they wrote so
much together. And it would have been nice to
have seen him at least in 95, perhaps because by that point
they've done a hell of a lot together, really.
Or collaborated. I also put I wrote down and and
maybe you might think these are these are unrealistic, but I
thought John Bluthor, I thought somebody from the Q series 1 of
and and you know, John Bluthor and Spike had worked together
going back to the 50s in Australia.
Yeah, I think it's it's interesting and I think you're
right. And I always want.
An opportunity to see John Bluthor because he's great, but
the apart from the family and the friends from early life,
they sort of want to pitch the celebrities who are coming on as
being kind of like having name recognition.
And I wonder if that's part of the factor behind because who
who would know? You might know John Bluthill's
face and but they wouldn't know who John Antropus was
necessarily. And they do.
It's that weird mix of the genuine, you know, family,
friends from the early days, etcetera.
They got the canteen lady from Bexhill that Spike shagged.
Yeah. I know it's it's.
I guess that kind of falls under the the.
Very old friends before they were famous kind of thing.
I'm not trying to justify because I think you're right.
That's that's why the program's such a kind of artificial thing,
because it's not any kind of representative of who really
kind of knows him the best or who etcetera.
It's just the kind of weird hotchpotch of stuff.
Yeah. And in 73 I reckon they should
have got birded. Miles because because of the
yeah, the work that Spike did, the man made theatre like
Treasure Island and whatnot. And then Mars would have been
good. And he would, you know, he was,
he was a well known name and face.
To the public. So there's no real.
I guess maybe he wasn't available, but oh, you know,
hard to say, isn't it? Yeah.
And and in 95 he probably wouldn't have been available
either. Or maybe he wouldn't want to do
it. But George Martin, because, you
know, he was Spike's best man in in 62 and they recorded a lot
together. And he, he's a big name.
Oh, yeah. Did they remain close?
Over the years, I don't, I don't know, but they certainly.
Were close in the 50s and 60s. Well, I know there were because
he, George Martin recorded the Q5 piano song with Spike in the
late 60s. Anyway, there's there's there's
him. And I'm going to cross out two
other names I wrote down here because you've kind of covered
that, the fact that they probably wouldn't have the name
recognition, Valentine Dial and Alan Clare.
And it was. And impetually, I also wrote
down that boy that he shot with an air rifle.
Yes, that would be that would be a good one.
I'm sure that'd go down well. Do you remember this voice?
Yes. Ow, you bastard.
Now what happened is from. There on we we, we spent a long.
Time there that and in those days they didn't have a lot of
traffic we didn't have crossings generally she got to eat at Bart
rallies that's right Bart rallies that's right I'm glad
you're. Still with us now.
And and we used to cross the road and there are no crossing
in those. They're just horse droppings.
Do you remember it? That's right.
Yes, right. There's some of mine there as
well. I know because.
We used to take it in turns to to limp and the.
Other fella held him across so the traffic would stop and one
day we had, we had a very hairy crossing and you've probably
forgotten this. Right next door to Barbarelli's
there was a funeral parlour with a big plate glass window.
You remember it. Your mind's coming back.
And there was a. There was a.
Funeral thing like that and we we had a bit of.
A hairy crossing there because we were both limping like that.
And when we got this spike lay on the pavement outside.
This. Thing like that, like that.
And then he knocked on the door and he said shop.
Oh my God, you would have. Made me and a half using.
That that heavyweight research tool.
Wikipedia, just to round off what we were talking about, a
famous one, the subject of the programme that found out and the
programme was pulled was Ronnie Barker apparently.
Oh, and apparently he was so. Disturbed by.
How secretively his wife was behaving that he started to
suspect she might be having an affair and in the end she had to
explain and it got cancelled. But then Barker said to his wife
he never wanted to be on the program anyway and there was
never a follow up because of that.
And also apparently Maureen Lipman had an arrangement with
her agent and her husband and John Rose, Jack Rosenthal did
the same. They had an agreement that they
would never be on it as subjects as well.
So obviously some people did let their agents know that they that
they weren't interested. I did have one more thing when I
was going through the sort of newspaper archives.
Spike Milligan's name from around just after the 1973 one,
Spike Milligan's name came up in a interview with Huey Green
about Opportunity Knox. And Milligan was name checked by
Huey Green as being one of the celebrities, one of the talents
that was discovered via Opportunity Knox and on the on
the radio version because it was a radio show 1st.
And then I looked on the Opportunity Knox Wikipedia and a
few other places and it mentions at the top some of the people
that were discovered, including Spike Milligan.
Now I have to say I don't think I knew that or indeed if it's
true because it's not on Spike Milligan's own thing.
I don't think it is, is it? No, I've never heard that
before. Hello, I thought I'd check.
With you, because you know if anybody knows any.
Any of the wiser about this because I I I only really
discovered it yesterday in the article that Huey Green was
quoted in. I certainly wouldn't take on
face value or anything that Huey Green says.
But the far from it. The I just thought that was that
was one that, as I say, it leads on the opportunity Knox
Wikipedia page. So it's by when did when did the
radio series start? I think it was late Forties 1949
apparently. Look, look, so Spike, I mean
Spike auditioned and. Failed to get get on at the
windmill. But late 40s when he was at
Graftons he was writing comedy scripts for Derek Roy and people
like that. I mean literally the first
paragraph for the opportunity notes Wikipedia and she says.
From its origin on the BBC Radio 1949, the show provided a
platform to fame for acts such as Spike Milligan and Frankie
Vaughan. So it leads with it, which is a
bit weird. And I'm just not very convinced
by that. Well, I've never read that and
if I have, I've forgotten it. And listeners, there's.
I have listeners who know more about Spike than I do, so if
anyone can shed some light on that, I'm sure it is.
I wash it feels like it, doesn't it?
Yeah. OK, so John, yeah, I.
Think this this has been. Great fun.
It's been interesting talking about I know that again, I'm I'm
coming. I've come across as a bit of a
ornery old sod about. This.
Because I've been mostly negative, but this is your life
was a bit haphazard and a bit hit and miss.
Yeah. And I guess that you know that
that's that's as I talked about at the beginning, it had kind.
Of big cultural impact. You could refer to it Eamonn
Andrews in the Big Red Book. Everybody knew what you were
talking about and it and it was right for parody because it was
a bit of a shambles as well, you know, and that that was taken.
That was kind of the often it was taking the make out for
exactly those reasons. And in fact, it was quite
sentimental at times as well and all of that.
So, yeah, I mean, I'm conscious of the fact that I've now been
on the last two green pods largely slagging off the thing
that we're talking about. But with but with with Korean
ships and this is your life, these particular episodes, it's
that, you know, it's hard not to really.
I think we've pointed out where we thought there were some good
bits. Yeah.
Absolutely.
All right, John. So you've already said that
there will be by the time this show is out there, will the the
episode that's dropping tonight as we record will will be out
and you've got a Christmas special coming up.
Yeah, absolutely. We you know we can find us.
World of telly. Wherever you get your podcasts
from and also on YouTube. It's YouTube slash at World of
Telly and it's whoops Apocalypse.
It's dropping tonight. Oh, brilliant.
Oh, OK, because I interviewed. Marshall and Renwick about the
film you did and both Neil and I listened to your podcast.
As part of our preparations for that, it was good.
It was good. I mean, obviously it's more
about the. Film.
Which I have to confess, I only saw for the first time a couple
of weeks ago. I really didn't like it.
I have to say. No, I didn't.
I didn't. I did something about, I don't
know, the film films made around that time where there, I don't
know, there's something, there's all kind of lack of energy, kind
of airless quality to them. I mean, there were some funny
bits in it, I thought. But to me, I know that you said
on the podcast that I think they they they sort of preferred it
to the TV version. But to me, I don't, I really
don't get that at all because I know it's a different beast, but
I just it didn't it didn't grab me.
I mean, some good performances. I think Ian Richardson's good in
it. And Peter Cook, Yes.
Yeah. Well, I, I did.
I did quite. Enjoy the film Rick Rick's in it
of course, and and John Sessions and there's lots, lots of face
spotting to be to be done. The John Sessions way is
actually quite funny because it's such a weird role to have.
Isn't? It and it crops up again at the
end. Is is is amusing.
That did make me laugh, but OK, so, so yeah.
So whoops. Apocalypse.
The TV series and then and just we have already said to sorry
say that again. We as as we said last time
you're on John The the the premise of world of Telly is to
talk about every single television program ever made.
Yes, but in in no particular order, yeah.
So you've got your work cut out for you.
Yes, it's it's. It's it's it's kind of the
equivalent of. Painting the 4th Rd. bridge or
whatever the analogy is, it's never ending.
But yeah, we're going to, I think we're going to with every
three weeks now. We've just slipped by a day.
So it's every three weeks for the audio.
And we also have a blog as well. And the video 1 comes out a week
after the audio one each time. That's the pattern.
But we're, we've got a few things lined up for immediately
after January and then I think we're probably going to take a
fortnight break and then and then go at it again consistently
for the rest of the year. Good.
OK. And I think at some point next
year or the year after. Whenever you get a moment in
your busy diary, you will come back on Goon Pod and talk about
there's a there's a particular film, I won't mention which one.
Oh yes, But there's a film that you and I have talked about.
Talking about. So that that will that will be
happening at some point in the future.
Yes, yes, I look forward to it. And until then?
Thank you so much again, John. And thank you all for listening,
we will be back next week with our Christmas episode.
Till then take it easy, see you soon.
Bye bye.