1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,720
This. 
He's got a milligansa he has 

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come to face for his king. 
Where have you been and why are 

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you wearing We are girls that 
would let me on the train naked,

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Sir. 
You see, I missed the 814 full 

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frontal flyer. 
I mean, why aren't you in 

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uniform? 
Well, what would anybody say? 

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Silence. 
When you speak to a love star, I

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00:00:40,790 --> 00:00:43,430
spells you now off 3 months 
later, arriving. 

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00:00:44,250 --> 00:00:46,490
Makeup printer I'll fight nights
as well. 

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00:01:19,050 --> 00:01:23,450
Hello and welcome to Goompod. 
If podcasts were poultry, this 

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would be the last Turkey in the 
shop. 

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My guest today is someone who I 
followed on Twitter for many 

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years and he's one of those rare
people that I I've I've heard 

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nothing but good things about 
him. 

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He's possibly one of the nicest 
people on Twitter. 

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I I can't read one of his tweets
without generally experiencing 

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kind of a warm fuzzy feeling 
because he's very enthusiastic 

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about all lots of stuff. 
Although this is the first time 

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the two of us have spoken, I 
already feel like I'm speaking 

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to an old friend. 
It's Walter Dunlop. 

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Hello, it's lovely to be here. 
Thank you very much for inviting

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me. 
Not not a problem. 

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My pleasure. 
So I know that. 

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I know that you do have an 
interest, at least in the goons.

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We're more or less the same 
generation and obviously not old

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enough to have heard the goons 
on the radio in the 50s. 

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So how did you, how did you 
discover them? 

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It feels like I've almost always
known them, but I would almost 

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certainly have caught repeats on
radio in the early 80s. 

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But the big thing that got me 
was record libraries. 

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Everywhere I went, I've moved 
about the country quite a lot 

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and most of the places I went 
to, the first thing I would do 

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would be join the local library.
And there was always a record 

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library there in the early 80s 
and there was stuffed full of 

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the old BBC records releases and
I was just drawn in. 

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Must have borrowed one. 
And then I was hooked for life. 

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And then As. 
I'm sure with quite a lot of 

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people. 
I found a copy of the Goon Show 

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Companion in a charity shop, and
that was me. 

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Lost for life really. 
And it's kind of expanded ever 

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since. 
Once you start digging into 

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everything that all of the goons
have done, there's so much 

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there, so many riches to 
explore. 

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You can just spend the rest of 
your life wallowing, basically, 

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which I've pretty much done. 
A lot of my guests who are 

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roughly our age. 
You know they they discovered 

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the goons through parents, often
the dad okay, but yeah, that 

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there are a number like yourself
who discovered the goons 

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independently just through going
to the local library and finding

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the Lps or in some cases the 
cassettes. 

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Now do you think, particularly 
LPS, do you think that the 

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appeal to a youngster of one of 
the Goon Show classics LPS was 

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the covers with the cartoons? 
Very, very much so. 

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The Hunt Emerson covers, I mean,
I don't know about you, but one 

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of the things that, you know, I 
always get about vinyl in 

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particular, and I'm, I'm sure 
I'm not alone in this, is when 

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you're listening to it, you 
study the vinyl, the cover 

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really, really intensely. 
And in my head, in quite a lot 

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of cases, those Hunt Emerson 
caricatures are the characters 

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in my head. 
Basically, and I think I'm quite

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happy with that. 
Yeah, better. 

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More than the telly games, for 
God's sake. 

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Oh God, yeah. 
Yeah. 

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It's. 
I don't know if you ever wanted 

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an example of just how bad the 
uncanny valley can be. 

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Just watch an episode of the 
Telly games. 

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It's really quite unnerving. 
It is. 

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I'm going to be covering them in
detail in a few months because 

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it's the 60th anniversary coming
up. 

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Oh, excellent. 
Lucky you. 

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So OK and. 
What about the goons as solo 

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performers and Milligan sellers,
That sort of thing. 

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I think it was bitten by 
Sellers, first of all, to be 

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quite honest, because Channel 4 
used to specialize in doing 

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seasons of films devoted to one 
artist, a director or a 

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performer or whatever. 
And I've got a really clear 

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memory of basically suddenly 
discovering Peter Sellers at 

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some point in the mid 80s. 
It was like. 

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The Mouse That Roared. 
The Smallest Show on Earth. 

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00:05:28,470 --> 00:05:31,910
I'm All Right, Jack That saw 
them all in about the space of 

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2-3 weeks And then well, 
Milligan's film career is well, 

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yes, yes, very much so. 
Oddly enough, a very, very good 

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friend was obsessed with the 
great Mcgonigal, so that was 

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probably the first one I saw. 
But. 

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Yeah, just Millikan just keeps 
popping up wherever you look. 

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TV as well. 
Obviously, it's every time you 

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00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,320
think you've seen everything 
that he's done. 

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There he is again. 
And Harry was, well, I mean, I 

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don't know about anybody else, 
but Harry was always kind of the

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beloved mainstream entertainer. 
I grew up with him appearing on 

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things like Highway and the 
like, so. 

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00:06:16,580 --> 00:06:19,740
To use a great phrase I 
discovered in an old listings 

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magazine a couple of days ago, 
he is the boom with the golden 

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voice. 
So he was, you know, he's just 

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been kind of part of the 
television furniture for me my 

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00:06:30,940 --> 00:06:35,580
entire life. 
I couldn't really comment about 

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00:06:36,220 --> 00:06:38,980
Harry's film career, to be quite
honest, because I haven't really

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seen much apart from the 
obvious, you know? 

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But I know he's out there as 
well. 

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And of course down among the Z 
men, which was a Saturday 

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morning stalwart when I was 
growing up. 

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00:06:49,430 --> 00:06:51,030
But there's a. 
Very. 

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There's a very good film called 
Jetstorm from 1959. 

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I think now Harry, it's an 
ensemble. 

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00:06:58,190 --> 00:07:01,110
I mean it's the cast is headed 
by Stanley Baker, always 

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00:07:01,110 --> 00:07:04,790
reliable Stanley Baker. 
And it's a thriller set on a 

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00:07:04,790 --> 00:07:08,070
plane okay. 
And it's got. 

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And it's got Harry is as one of 
The Passengers, and he sat for 

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the whole film. 
He sat next to, I think it's 

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Dame Sybil Thorndike, I think, 
but it's also got people like 

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Bernard Braden and Barbara 
Kelly. 

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00:07:23,790 --> 00:07:27,910
Is that Bernard Braden's? 
Wife Bernard Braden's wife. 

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Yeah, suddenly. 
And and and a whole host of 

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other faces. 
And Richard Attenborough is the 

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is the villain okay but wait 
that's not giving away but 

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that's a fantastic film and and 
and it probably turns up on 

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talking pictures TV but I would 
recommend that for because 

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Harry's brilliant in it. 
So let us let us get to the the 

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topic this week in 2004 a film 
came out starring Bruno Ganz as 

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Adolf Hitler the muchmeaned 
Downfall. 

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The film was a huge success and 
scooped a whole heap of well 

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00:08:05,290 --> 00:08:09,050
deserved awards, and rightly so,
although the guy playing Gurbles

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still holds my dreams to this 
day. 

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Like many people, I went to see 
it at the cinema but came out a 

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little dissatisfied. 
You might even say Earth. 

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00:08:20,410 --> 00:08:23,170
Sure, the movie seemed to give a
pretty faithful account of 

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Hitler's final days and the 
events leading up to his death, 

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but the filmmakers had to my 
mind. 

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Missed out a small but important
element of the Fury's eventual 

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00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,840
downfall. 
Surely the screenwriter could 

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have included a short scene 
where Hitler says in passing to 

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his devoted secretary that he'd 
have gotten away with it if it 

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00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,640
hadn't been for the Americans, 
the Russians and the British. 

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00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,600
Particularly that shrine hunt, 
Ghana Milligan. 

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00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,520
Which is a long window way of 
saying that today we're talking 

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about the first volume of what 
would become. 

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Spike Milligan's septet of Is 
septet the right word for Group 

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00:09:03,990 --> 00:09:05,230
of 7? 
Walter, do you know? 

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00:09:05,790 --> 00:09:06,750
Yep. 
I would say. 

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00:09:07,070 --> 00:09:08,070
Definitely. 
I'll go with that. 

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00:09:08,070 --> 00:09:09,870
Then. 
What would become Spike 

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00:09:09,870 --> 00:09:11,910
Milligan's septet of war 
memoirs? 

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00:09:13,310 --> 00:09:16,190
The first volume, Adolf Hitler, 
My part in His Downfall. 

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00:09:16,550 --> 00:09:21,110
Published in 1971, the book 
begins with the declaration of 

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war in September 1939. 
Covers Milligan's call up in 

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00:09:26,130 --> 00:09:31,290
1940 as 954024 Gunn and 
Milligan, him joining the 56th 

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00:09:31,490 --> 00:09:35,690
Heavy Regiment, Royal Artillery,
D Battery, and all the spills 

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00:09:35,690 --> 00:09:39,730
and thrills he and his New Army 
comrades experienced while 

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00:09:39,730 --> 00:09:43,090
essentially undergoing 3 years 
of preparation for active 

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00:09:43,090 --> 00:09:45,810
combat. 
It ends with them arriving in 

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00:09:45,810 --> 00:09:51,490
Algiers, about to face the sharp
end of the war, and the book is 

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00:09:51,490 --> 00:09:53,570
shot through with Milligan's 
trademark humor. 

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00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,200
It pulls no punches, and it was 
certainly groundbreaking as a 

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00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:02,240
wartime memoir with frank 
language and no attempts to 

155
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,640
sanitize events. 
It's not wholly reliable. 

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00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:07,240
It's Milligan. 
How could it be? 

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00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:11,560
But here and there, among the 
comic vignettes, there are a 

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00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:15,240
handful of quite moving passages
where Milligan tacitly 

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00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,160
acknowledges that there's no 
place for gags, and he 

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00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,000
demonstrates his skill as a 
writer of emotionally affecting 

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00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,800
prose. 
Walter, so you nominated this 

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00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:29,760
book to come and talk about why 
this book. 

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00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:35,920
What does this book mean to you?
I have best to put this it's 

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00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:41,040
pretty much distilled Milligan. 
So far as I'm concerned. 

165
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,520
It's pretty much, it's what, 140
pages? 

166
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:50,040
Not much more than that, anyway.
It has cut to the bone. 

167
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,400
It's utterly lean, but it's got 
everything that I love. 

168
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:58,560
About Milligan at his best. 
There's also some of Milligan at

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00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,960
his worst in there as well. 
There are a couple of moments in

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00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,680
there that you kind of go about,
but. 

171
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,120
Robson. 
Yes, Robson, that's the big one,

172
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,360
very definitely. 
But there's there are moments 

173
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,960
of. 
Pure poetry in there. 

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00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,600
I've I've taken note of a couple
of point, a couple of moments in

175
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,840
it that I want the flag up where
he's the pros. 

176
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:29,760
Absolutely sings. 
It feels it feels to me it's 

177
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,520
there's a point in it where 
Milligan says something about 

178
00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:39,800
all the past Leave me alone, it 
and I always it feels like this 

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00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,910
is kind of the last time. 
You actually see Milligan before

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00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:49,310
the darkness descended. 
It's the time in his life that 

181
00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:54,030
he looks back on, where he 
actually seemed to not have the 

182
00:11:54,030 --> 00:11:57,790
weight on his shoulders. 
I don't know if I'm right in 

183
00:11:57,790 --> 00:12:02,390
that, but it I mean obviously 
the the point in the memoirs 

184
00:12:02,390 --> 00:12:06,990
where the shell shock happens, 
things dark and perceptibly and 

185
00:12:06,990 --> 00:12:09,950
the mood of the whole thing 
changes, but there are moments 

186
00:12:09,950 --> 00:12:13,680
of purest sunshine. 
In this book, especially in the 

187
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,920
in the early stages, there's 
also the ropes moment. 

188
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:24,640
But on the whole it just it's 
Milligan freewheeling. 

189
00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,160
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely 
cartwheels through that book. 

190
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,760
It it feels like it's one of the
things in his life that he had 

191
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,520
the most fun writing as well 
and. 

192
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,440
It really does. 
Really shines through. 

193
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,000
Like you say, he didn't have any
responsibilities, did he? 

194
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,120
Which he would later have. 
Obviously heavy responsibilities

195
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,400
and he was just having fun and I
didn't. 

196
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,880
I haven't read this for many 
years, in fact I haven't read 

197
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:54,600
the the septet for many years 
and in my head, I mean, how 

198
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,680
often do you read this or how 
often have you read this? 

199
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,240
Read them all about. 
Well, I've read them all about. 

200
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,160
Twice in my life. 
But I picked them up piecemeal, 

201
00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,800
obviously, for the years. 
But I did, I did do them all in 

202
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:14,560
a one hour and a couple of years
ago, and it is very much the law

203
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:18,640
of diminishing returns that the 
earlier books are. 

204
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,360
They're edited to the absolute 
squeak with that. 

205
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,000
Been. 
Jack Hobbs did that. 

206
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,960
Possibly, yes, probably. 
Thinking about it well, because 

207
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,480
I because in my head, because as
I said, I haven't read them 

208
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,850
probably since I was. 
Probably since, well, 30 years 

209
00:13:31,850 --> 00:13:33,650
ago. 
I probably read them last okay. 

210
00:13:34,170 --> 00:13:36,650
I think I've read this twice and
so this will be the third time 

211
00:13:36,650 --> 00:13:39,210
I've read it. 
But again, a long time ago in my

212
00:13:39,210 --> 00:13:44,570
head I thought it just spanned a
period from war breaking out to 

213
00:13:44,610 --> 00:13:47,330
probably maybe 1941 at the 
latest. 

214
00:13:47,810 --> 00:13:53,170
But it goes up to 1943. 
Which to me, I don't know, I 

215
00:13:53,170 --> 00:13:56,170
just, I didn't realize that 
Milligan spent so long in 

216
00:13:56,170 --> 00:13:59,970
England, if you know what I 
mean, before being shipped 

217
00:13:59,970 --> 00:14:01,800
abroad. 
Exactly. 

218
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,040
It's the first book almost feels
like an extended prologue. 

219
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,800
It's kind of second one's Rumel 
Gunner who. 

220
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:10,240
Isn't it? 
Yes. 

221
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,600
Yeah, it kind of feels like 
that's where, you know, 

222
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:20,960
Milligan's War actually starts. 
And the 1st 140 pages are 

223
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,160
basically him learning how to be
a soldier before it all, 

224
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,320
actually. 
Kicks off before it gets dark. 

225
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,880
Yes, I mean there's there's 
always, I know there's always 

226
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,760
gags and there's lightness in 
the the subsequent books, but 

227
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,920
this is the light. 
I would say this is probably, I 

228
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,240
would assume this is the 
lightest of them all in terms 

229
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,320
of, I mean it's lightest to to 
hold of course because it's such

230
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,760
a slim volume, but lightest in 
tone because he's not, there's a

231
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,280
little bit, I mean there's a few
deaths in this book. 

232
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,360
Someone loses a hand, gets the 
hand blown off, Although again, 

233
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,760
that black human where I think 
they're on Salisbury Plain, he 

234
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,000
gets his hand blown off, this 
soldier. 

235
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:04,120
It's an extraordinary moment. 
On the last day B subsection of 

236
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,200
a firing smoke shells one got 
jammed the breach. 

237
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,120
Sergeant Jordy Rowlands was in 
the process of removing the 

238
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:11,840
charge when it exploded in his 
hand. 

239
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,640
When the smoke cleared, Rowlands
were looking at the stump of his

240
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,920
wrist with his right hand 10 
yards away on the ground. 

241
00:15:17,420 --> 00:15:19,780
There was a stunned silence and 
then he said, well, I'll be 

242
00:15:19,780 --> 00:15:22,540
fucked. 
Apart from initial shock he was 

243
00:15:22,540 --> 00:15:25,060
OK. 
But for him the war finished on 

244
00:15:25,060 --> 00:15:27,740
Salisbury plane. 
The severed hand was buried 

245
00:15:27,740 --> 00:15:31,460
where it fell by Busty Roberts 
as he dug a small hole. 

246
00:15:31,660 --> 00:15:34,660
Driver Watts said you're going 
to shake hands before you bury 

247
00:15:34,660 --> 00:15:36,980
it. 
Busty Roberts reply was never 

248
00:15:36,980 --> 00:15:39,900
recorded. 
You know, wartime black humor. 

249
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:42,540
What else can you do in a 
situation like like, except 

250
00:15:42,540 --> 00:15:43,420
Joke. 
Really. 

251
00:15:43,860 --> 00:15:46,520
Absolutely. 
And it's interesting because 

252
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,480
it's written so he would have 
been writing this late 606970 

253
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,680
around that time, I suppose so 
25 years after the war and and 

254
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,000
more than 25 years after the 
events in this book. 

255
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,200
So how, how reliable do you feel
it is? 

256
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,880
I know that he got a bit of 
criticism and he later defended 

257
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,800
these memoirs and said I I I 
wish the reader to know that he 

258
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,840
is not reading a tissue of lies 
and fancies. 

259
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,050
It all really happened. 
But obviously it's it's 

260
00:16:16,050 --> 00:16:19,250
difficult to to judge. 
It's difficult to say, but a lot

261
00:16:19,250 --> 00:16:22,530
of it is fanciful, surely. 
To God, yeah. 

262
00:16:22,770 --> 00:16:26,810
Absolutely. 
And that disclaimer, yet I'm 

263
00:16:26,810 --> 00:16:31,890
fairly sure I was, I went 
looking to try and find evidence

264
00:16:31,890 --> 00:16:34,490
of this earlier on this week and
I couldn't actually track it 

265
00:16:34,490 --> 00:16:38,410
down, but I'm fairly sure that 
he got into a bit of a spot with

266
00:16:38,850 --> 00:16:41,730
Harry Edgington. 
At some point over some of the 

267
00:16:41,730 --> 00:16:44,370
things that he said in the 
memoirs that Edgington disagreed

268
00:16:44,370 --> 00:16:50,730
with, it might be just memory is
so subjective, isn't it? 

269
00:16:50,730 --> 00:16:53,810
I mean, if you were to ask me to
recall stuff that had happened 

270
00:16:53,810 --> 00:16:58,890
25 years ago, my version would 
probably not tally up with 

271
00:16:58,890 --> 00:17:04,010
anybody else's being, you know, 
going through a Milligan filter 

272
00:17:04,010 --> 00:17:06,329
as well, it's it's going to come
out. 

273
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:14,069
Larger than life and it's I 
cannot imagine that if you got, 

274
00:17:14,470 --> 00:17:17,790
you know, the D battery reunions
that are used to attend, I'm 

275
00:17:17,790 --> 00:17:20,349
fairly sure that there were an 
awful lot of people after the 

276
00:17:20,349 --> 00:17:22,910
memoirs came out, basically 
cornering and going boy. 

277
00:17:23,790 --> 00:17:28,550
Well, yeah, cuz it's famously 
the 1973 This is your life for 

278
00:17:28,550 --> 00:17:30,990
Spike. 
He was interrupted at one of 

279
00:17:30,990 --> 00:17:32,430
those reunions, I think, wasn't 
he? 

280
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:35,340
Yes. 
Well, the cameras aren't just 

281
00:17:35,340 --> 00:17:39,860
here for the reunion, but 
because tonight, ex Bombardier. 

282
00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:41,980
Spike Milligan, this is your 
life. 

283
00:17:41,980 --> 00:17:54,580
You call this your life? 
Never thought Jamaica, don't. 

284
00:17:54,580 --> 00:17:57,460
Look, Spike Milligan, this is 
your life, and I've been quite 

285
00:17:57,460 --> 00:17:59,420
serious about it. 
And we're better to tell you a 

286
00:17:59,420 --> 00:18:03,570
story than here. 
In Bexhill, Thanks to you. 

287
00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:07,730
Yes, the unlikely scene of some 
of the most remarkable exploits 

288
00:18:07,810 --> 00:18:11,890
of World War 2A. 
Stirring tale that you've 

289
00:18:12,130 --> 00:18:14,370
recently recalled in your 
personal war history. 

290
00:18:14,610 --> 00:18:17,250
Adolf Hitler. 
My part in his downfall. 

291
00:18:17,290 --> 00:18:18,970
Well, as you can see, your old 
comrades are. 

292
00:18:19,490 --> 00:18:22,930
I was here in forest Spike. 
Milligan, you horrible little 

293
00:18:23,170 --> 00:18:24,490
man. 
Get your hair cut. 

294
00:18:24,970 --> 00:18:26,970
You're a Sergeant then. 
But now war is over. 

295
00:18:26,970 --> 00:18:29,490
Old friends, Forgiven. 
Ex Sergeant Bill. 

296
00:18:29,490 --> 00:18:31,130
Jordy Dawson. 
Josie Dawson. 

297
00:18:32,010 --> 00:18:33,370
How are you? 
Jordy Dardy? 

298
00:18:33,450 --> 00:18:38,930
Then look, we see you later. 
Come in the fucking the camera 

299
00:18:38,930 --> 00:18:42,330
as former guitarist Alf Styles 
and ex drummer Doug. 

300
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:59,110
Two more musicians, Spike, Two 
more Spike you Lost touch with 

301
00:18:59,110 --> 00:19:02,710
for more than 15 years from 
Huddersfield bass player Joseph 

302
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:06,150
Chalky White, and wait for Spike
from Portsmouth crooner Jimmy. 

303
00:19:14,750 --> 00:19:16,870
Because just one member of that 
band we haven't mentioned like, 

304
00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:18,630
and now I want you to watch that
screen, please. 

305
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:19,950
Over there. 
A very important part of the 

306
00:19:19,950 --> 00:19:22,990
combination, your pianist and 
best mate, Harry Edgington, who 

307
00:19:22,990 --> 00:19:25,950
as you know lives in New Zealand
now but wouldn't let this 

308
00:19:25,950 --> 00:19:29,110
evening pass without sending you
a special message. 

309
00:19:31,790 --> 00:19:35,390
I mean, Harry Edgington comes 
out of this, this volume anyway 

310
00:19:35,390 --> 00:19:39,470
very well. 
In fact, he's he's, it's the the

311
00:19:39,470 --> 00:19:42,150
way he is, the way he figures in
this book. 

312
00:19:42,670 --> 00:19:46,710
He's almost like a match. 
For Milligan, For Witt. 

313
00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:51,870
Very, very much so. 
It feels like Milligan's soul 

314
00:19:51,870 --> 00:19:54,590
mate. 
Yeah, well does that his they 

315
00:19:54,590 --> 00:19:56,950
do, they write prototype goon 
shows. 

316
00:19:57,470 --> 00:20:03,910
Yeah, the whole bit about the 
clubbers having been introduced 

317
00:20:03,910 --> 00:20:06,670
to the Goons and the Popeye 
cartoon, and they basically 

318
00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:09,630
start up their own little club 
and they build clubs. 

319
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,800
And sacred, sacred clubs. 
Yeah, sacred clubs. 

320
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,160
Newarks. 
Not nourisher and instant lumps 

321
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,680
and the like. 
So and then they're basically 

322
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,520
absolutely thick as thieves, the
pair of them. 

323
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:28,520
You know that I would have said 
reading this that, you know, 

324
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,440
Edgington and Milligan were tied
together for absolute life. 

325
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,800
It wouldn't have been at all 
surprised if Edgington had 

326
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,080
turned up and show business 
after the war, along with 

327
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,690
everybody else, but. 
He just seems to disappear. 

328
00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:44,570
He emigrates, doesn't he? 
Goes to New Zealand, I think. 

329
00:20:44,610 --> 00:20:46,610
My old stamping ground. 
Yeah, I think so, yeah. 

330
00:20:47,530 --> 00:20:50,570
So he, his name is obviously 
immortalized now. 

331
00:20:50,850 --> 00:20:54,210
And because obviously he was the
inspiration for the the word 

332
00:20:54,210 --> 00:20:59,530
Ying Tong. 
And as I say in the book, in 

333
00:20:59,530 --> 00:21:05,170
this book, the banter that 
Milligan either recreates or 

334
00:21:05,170 --> 00:21:09,250
just invents between them, Oh 
yeah, there's a bit. 

335
00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:11,780
Towards the end, right towards 
the end of the book, when 

336
00:21:11,780 --> 00:21:16,140
they're on the on the boat bound
for Algiers, and they're going 

337
00:21:16,140 --> 00:21:18,940
through what they call fish 
infested, what Milligan calls 

338
00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:23,780
fish infested waters. 
And there's this scenario, 

339
00:21:23,940 --> 00:21:28,860
There's this banter between him 
and Harry Edgington where 

340
00:21:28,860 --> 00:21:31,860
Milligan says many fish are 
sympathetic to the German cause.

341
00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:35,100
There should be regular fish 
inspections, each being tasted 

342
00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:38,060
for identification. 
Sir, this fish tastes like a 

343
00:21:38,140 --> 00:21:41,830
Gestapo Sergeant. 
Harry says Right, drown it at 

344
00:21:41,830 --> 00:21:46,070
once, Spike says it's not 
frightened of water, Harry says.

345
00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:49,310
Then drown it on land, poison a 
hill and make it eat it. 

346
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:53,350
That is pure Goon Show, isn't 
it? 

347
00:21:53,630 --> 00:21:56,670
That is. 
You know, I could hear that 

348
00:21:56,670 --> 00:22:01,710
being a Moriarty moment, 
definitely. 

349
00:22:01,710 --> 00:22:03,030
Poison a hill, Make it. 
Eat it. 

350
00:22:03,030 --> 00:22:05,150
I mean, there was a goon show 
called Mount the Mountain 

351
00:22:05,150 --> 00:22:08,460
Eaters. 
It's amazing how these things 

352
00:22:08,460 --> 00:22:10,020
echo back, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

353
00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:14,380
You know, one of the things that
you get out of this book, of 

354
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:17,820
course, is good. 
Show references just suddenly 

355
00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:19,940
leap out. 
I mean, Bexel on sea, for a 

356
00:22:19,940 --> 00:22:22,420
start. 
The fact that there's a place in

357
00:22:22,420 --> 00:22:25,740
it called Robin's post. 
Yeah, another big one. 

358
00:22:25,740 --> 00:22:28,420
It's all this stuff went in 
pendency. 

359
00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:30,640
Yes. 
Absolutely. 

360
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,320
Yeah, I did. 
I'm sure there's others, but 

361
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:34,520
those are the ones that leap 
out. 

362
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:41,720
But the bit that I wanted to 
raise about Spike and Edgington,

363
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:48,560
the bit that I absolutely loved,
which absolutely pins down their

364
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:52,160
relationship, is this bit just 
before they're all about board 

365
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,800
for Algiers and Milligan's back 
from leave, you know, that. 

366
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,040
Fantastic. 
Meeting in the Anderson shelter 

367
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:02,120
with his family. 
Oh yes. 

368
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,840
And he comes back home and 
they're all just sitting around 

369
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,000
doing nothing. 
And Harry and Edgington 

370
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,200
basically go, let's go and have 
a jam in the NAFI. 

371
00:23:13,090 --> 00:23:15,050
And they go down to, Milligan 
says. 

372
00:23:15,050 --> 00:23:17,090
It was about 1:00 in the morning
when we got in. 

373
00:23:17,130 --> 00:23:19,650
For an hour we played these 
foolish things. 

374
00:23:19,650 --> 00:23:23,810
Room 504, Serenade in blue, 
falling leaves and the 

375
00:23:23,810 --> 00:23:26,730
inevitable Blues. 
In retrospect, it wasn't a happy

376
00:23:26,730 --> 00:23:30,330
occasion. 2 young men away from 
home playing sentimental tunes 

377
00:23:30,330 --> 00:23:33,090
and a pitch black naffy. 
Oh, yesterday. 

378
00:23:33,250 --> 00:23:35,810
Leave me alone. 
I mean, isn't that just 

379
00:23:35,810 --> 00:23:37,490
brilliant? 
Not just. 

380
00:23:39,010 --> 00:23:42,010
It's just a gorgeous moment that
it really is. 

381
00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:44,750
Yeah, earlier in the book, he 
says. 

382
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:49,470
Milligan says happiness is a mug
of tea, a cigarette and a record

383
00:23:49,470 --> 00:23:51,670
of Bunny Barragan playing. 
Let's do it. 

384
00:23:52,030 --> 00:23:57,510
Happiness is a yesterday thing. 
Yeah, which is deeply, deeply 

385
00:23:57,510 --> 00:23:59,430
bloody sad. 
I mean, the implication there 

386
00:23:59,430 --> 00:24:02,550
would be that Milligan can't be 
happy in the now as well. 

387
00:24:03,310 --> 00:24:08,590
It's and it is weird that, you 
know, his happiest, most 

388
00:24:08,590 --> 00:24:11,830
carefree memories are in the 
days leading up to. 

389
00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:16,890
World War Two, It's remarkable, 
the fact that these are the 

390
00:24:16,890 --> 00:24:19,810
moments where all of the 
responsibilities fall away. 

391
00:24:20,050 --> 00:24:23,570
And and it's also odd now I come
to think about it, given 

392
00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:28,450
Milligan's lifelong hatred of 
pushing of authority, the way he

393
00:24:28,450 --> 00:24:31,810
always pushes against other 
people telling him what to do. 

394
00:24:31,810 --> 00:24:36,930
And yet here he is in the Army, 
just absolutely in his element, 

395
00:24:36,970 --> 00:24:38,530
although obviously that doesn't 
last. 

396
00:24:38,530 --> 00:24:41,330
Does that make any sense at all?
It does. 

397
00:24:41,530 --> 00:24:44,020
It does. 
Why would you want to be in a 

398
00:24:44,140 --> 00:24:48,380
heavily regulated environment if
you're always wanted to kick 

399
00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:52,460
against the pricks of authority?
Yeah, kind of. 

400
00:24:52,620 --> 00:24:53,940
Absolutely. 
Absolutely. 

401
00:24:55,980 --> 00:24:59,860
But yes, it's that little 
moment, and again, the 

402
00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:05,220
wonderful, evocative image of 
playing sentimental tunes in a 

403
00:25:05,220 --> 00:25:07,580
pitch black naffy. 
They're doing it in a blackout 

404
00:25:08,060 --> 00:25:11,810
as well, which. 
You know, I can't even begin to 

405
00:25:11,810 --> 00:25:15,210
imagine what life must have been
like living under those 

406
00:25:15,210 --> 00:25:18,170
conditions. 
But, you know, if you've got 

407
00:25:18,170 --> 00:25:20,690
Trump on the piano, you can make
something of it by the looks of 

408
00:25:20,730 --> 00:25:22,570
it. 
Well, that's it. 

409
00:25:22,570 --> 00:25:25,490
And and just getting back to 
authority figures. 

410
00:25:26,210 --> 00:25:28,850
So when he first arrives, 
because he's three months late 

411
00:25:30,610 --> 00:25:34,050
because he got well, he slipped 
a disc, didn't he? 

412
00:25:34,050 --> 00:25:37,660
And so he was hospitalized. 
There's something about hernia 

413
00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:39,700
as well. 
I kind of didn't quite get the 

414
00:25:39,780 --> 00:25:41,940
the chronology right, whether 
that was just a milligram 

415
00:25:42,020 --> 00:25:44,580
diversion, whether that had 
something to do with this delay.

416
00:25:44,580 --> 00:25:47,860
But yes, there's definitely a 
slip disk in the the very early 

417
00:25:47,860 --> 00:25:51,580
parts as the ohm ohms letters 
start piling up. 

418
00:25:52,340 --> 00:25:55,420
Have you Have you seen? 
Sorry to digress, but have you 

419
00:25:55,420 --> 00:25:57,980
ever seen the film the I think 
It's the Elf Garnet Saga? 

420
00:25:58,980 --> 00:26:03,020
Yes, but not for quite some 
time, but yes, I have seen it. 

421
00:26:03,380 --> 00:26:07,570
Because that's it. 
During the war with a with a 

422
00:26:07,570 --> 00:26:11,490
young elf, Ghana, and a young 
what's her name? 

423
00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:14,170
Elf. 
Is it Elf, his wife Elf. 

424
00:26:14,330 --> 00:26:17,530
Yeah, yeah. 
Which is Dandy Nichols, who I 

425
00:26:17,530 --> 00:26:21,490
think was probably about 60 at 
the time, was 65, trying to look

426
00:26:21,490 --> 00:26:25,450
about 31, you know. 
Absolutely. 

427
00:26:25,770 --> 00:26:29,330
Didn't didn't quite pull it off 
anyway, but there's a scene in 

428
00:26:29,330 --> 00:26:34,610
that where Alf receives his OHMS
letter and he and he's. 

429
00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:37,580
Because he's been, you know, 
he's been mouthing off prior to 

430
00:26:37,580 --> 00:26:40,380
this about, you know, these 
bloody cowards, you know, not 

431
00:26:40,380 --> 00:26:42,340
wanting to go and fight for the 
country and all the rest of it. 

432
00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:45,820
Then he gets his call up papers 
and he puts the letter. 

433
00:26:45,860 --> 00:26:48,260
I think he, if if I remember 
correctly, he doesn't open it. 

434
00:26:48,260 --> 00:26:51,100
He puts it on the mantelpiece 
and kind of stares at it for a 

435
00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:55,460
couple of weeks. 
The absolute terror that those 

436
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:57,780
things must have contained. 
Yeah, yeah. 

437
00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:00,540
And I kind of got vibes from of 
that, from this. 

438
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:05,980
But yeah, so I say before, when 
Milligan arrives in Bexhill on 

439
00:27:05,980 --> 00:27:13,460
sea and is it Sergeant Jumbo 
Day, That first greets him, but 

440
00:27:13,460 --> 00:27:17,100
it takes him to meet the 
commanding officer, which is a 

441
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:20,860
character that we only we only 
know is Leather Suitcase, don't 

442
00:27:20,860 --> 00:27:22,250
we? 
Yes. 

443
00:27:22,290 --> 00:27:25,730
Is is he? 
Is he also Major Startling 

444
00:27:25,730 --> 00:27:29,650
Grope, which is always the name 
that sticks in my head, it's Are

445
00:27:29,650 --> 00:27:32,090
they two separate characters? 
I'm not sure I wrote that down 

446
00:27:32,090 --> 00:27:36,570
because major Startling grope if
you're Are you aware of the LP 

447
00:27:36,570 --> 00:27:41,210
bridge on the river? 
Why yes the the there's a 

448
00:27:41,210 --> 00:27:43,570
character in that played by 
Sellers which is basically Blood

449
00:27:43,570 --> 00:27:47,370
Knock, but the character's name 
in that is Major Startling 

450
00:27:47,370 --> 00:27:48,680
Grope. 
Okay. 

451
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,120
So that's dolishing name, isn't 
it? 

452
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,200
I'm not sure. 
Yeah, that does. 

453
00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:56,840
Milligan doesn't make that 
clear. 

454
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,320
But you've got, I think leather 
Suitcase is so named because he 

455
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,480
wears lots of leather patches on
his uniform. 

456
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,840
And obviously Milligan has got 
no respect whatsoever for this 

457
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,200
CEO. 
But later I think Monty takes 

458
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,800
over Southern Command and then 
they get a new CEO, which is 

459
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,920
major chaitor Jack. 
Yes, and there's real respect 

460
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,880
between the two of them. 
Yeah, Milligan says. 

461
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:23,080
I would have followed him 
anywhere. 

462
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,320
Yeah, yeah, totally. 
That's that wonderful moment 

463
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,600
where basically Trader Jacks 
standing up in the middle of a 

464
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,760
bombing raid and when it's all 
over, he basically says to them,

465
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:39,360
now, you know, now I've shown 
you what not to do, you'll know 

466
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,080
for for the future. 
And it's like, yeah, you kind of

467
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,840
would do anything for somebody 
like that, I think. 

468
00:28:46,260 --> 00:28:49,020
Yeah, yeah. 
It always felt that Milligan was

469
00:28:49,020 --> 00:28:50,900
always at his best. 
If he had somebody who would 

470
00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:57,940
push back, you know, it's a 
framework for him to kind of 

471
00:28:57,940 --> 00:29:00,780
bounce about within. 
I mean you you get that in the 

472
00:29:00,780 --> 00:29:02,300
Goon Show. 
He's got a really strong 

473
00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:05,060
producer. 
He seems to work incredibly 

474
00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:09,220
well. 
But it's it's certainly Trader 

475
00:29:09,220 --> 00:29:13,140
Jack comes out of it absolutely 
as the the. 

476
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:17,820
The one person in authority who 
Milligan can actually respect, 

477
00:29:18,780 --> 00:29:22,260
and it certainly shines through 
in this in this particular 

478
00:29:22,260 --> 00:29:24,460
chapter in the Memoirs. 
I didn't. 

479
00:29:24,620 --> 00:29:27,700
I didn't write it down, but I 
seem to remember in the book. 

480
00:29:29,740 --> 00:29:33,380
Or it might be another person, 
but I'm sure that Chater, Jack 

481
00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:36,220
and Milligan were certainly in 
contact during the 50s. 

482
00:29:36,780 --> 00:29:41,260
Yes, yes they are. 
Because Chater Jack at one point

483
00:29:41,260 --> 00:29:44,810
gives Milligan a. 
A letter full of reminiscence 

484
00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:48,450
for I think it's the D battery 
reunion in 58, right. 

485
00:29:49,450 --> 00:29:53,850
There's lots of kind of you may 
want to raise this and see what 

486
00:29:54,490 --> 00:29:57,610
see what everybody remembers. 
But this is how I remember it, 

487
00:29:57,730 --> 00:30:02,290
which is it's interesting that 
you know, once again there's 

488
00:30:02,330 --> 00:30:06,130
kind of trader Jacks got one 
view of things that happened in 

489
00:30:06,130 --> 00:30:08,490
the war and Milligan's obviously
got another one. 

490
00:30:08,850 --> 00:30:12,890
But but yes, they they stayed in
regular contact, I think. 

491
00:30:13,530 --> 00:30:16,610
And there's so many characters. 
There's you've got Milligan, you

492
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:20,610
got Edgington, you've got the 
other members of the band to a 

493
00:30:20,610 --> 00:30:25,770
lesser degree, Alf files. 
Alf Files and Doug Kidgell. 

494
00:30:25,890 --> 00:30:29,490
Doug Kidgell. 
But there's also there's the 

495
00:30:29,490 --> 00:30:31,650
characters on the periphery, The
other, you know, the other 

496
00:30:31,650 --> 00:30:33,370
soldiers that are in the 
barracks with them. 

497
00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:36,330
His description of Knights in 
the barracks. 

498
00:30:37,090 --> 00:30:38,610
Yes. 
Plunger, Bailey, plunger, 

499
00:30:38,610 --> 00:30:42,820
Bailey. 
Oh, that's extraordinary. 

500
00:30:43,620 --> 00:30:45,660
In a couple of weeks, I'm 
putting out an episode about the

501
00:30:45,660 --> 00:30:50,340
Goon Show episode The Sleeping 
Prince All right, which is the 

502
00:30:50,340 --> 00:30:56,300
episode where it's set during a 
revolution in a South Pacific 

503
00:30:56,300 --> 00:31:03,580
country, and right at the end of
the show, Seagoon mentions 

504
00:31:03,740 --> 00:31:06,980
Plunger Bailey. 
Excellent. 

505
00:31:07,020 --> 00:31:09,500
Once again, these names just 
stick, don't they? 

506
00:31:10,190 --> 00:31:12,390
Yeah. 
He doesn't go into any detail 

507
00:31:12,390 --> 00:31:16,990
about the legend of Plunger 
Bailey, however, because it's 

508
00:31:17,950 --> 00:31:20,950
BBC Home Service. 
But do you want to just 

509
00:31:20,950 --> 00:31:23,310
delicately describe? 
I already have because I've 

510
00:31:23,310 --> 00:31:25,550
recorded that Goon show, that 
episode about the sleeping 

511
00:31:25,550 --> 00:31:29,070
Prince, but do you want to 
describe about Plunger Bailey's 

512
00:31:29,070 --> 00:31:33,670
sort of party piece? 
If you like I I will do my best.

513
00:31:35,150 --> 00:31:37,670
I may end up giggling like mad, 
but. 

514
00:31:38,580 --> 00:31:45,740
If you can imagine a floor show 
performed by the manipulation of

515
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:51,860
certain pieces of gentleman's 
equipment below the navel is 

516
00:31:51,860 --> 00:31:54,460
probably the most delicate way 
of describing. 

517
00:31:54,980 --> 00:31:56,100
Well. 
Done. 

518
00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:58,740
It's. 
Let's put it this way. 

519
00:31:58,780 --> 00:32:02,900
At one point he puts a pair of 
glasses on them and imitates 

520
00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:05,460
Groucho Marx. 
Which? 

521
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,140
Is a moment and a half, 
definitely. 

522
00:32:09,260 --> 00:32:16,700
But yeah, it's there are an 
awful lot of references to 

523
00:32:18,980 --> 00:32:21,580
nocturnal manipulations in this 
book. 

524
00:32:21,580 --> 00:32:24,060
Is probably the most tactful way
I can put it. 

525
00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:26,900
Well, he talks about. 
He even talks about. 

526
00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:29,460
I'm not sure how his brother 
felt about this cuz he talks 

527
00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:34,380
about when he goes back home on 
leave before before embarkation.

528
00:32:34,790 --> 00:32:38,310
And he talks about when he goes 
back to spend a final night with

529
00:32:38,310 --> 00:32:42,070
his parents, and he says he 
basically says his brother, his 

530
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:46,710
younger brother Desmond's night 
manipulations were stymied by 

531
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:49,830
communal sleeping arrangements. 
Absolutely. 

532
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:53,910
And that would be another thing 
I would imagine that caused the 

533
00:32:53,910 --> 00:32:57,510
relationship to be fractious. 
I mean, Norma Farms always used 

534
00:32:57,510 --> 00:33:01,550
to comment, Riley, about the 
fact that Milligan had very. 

535
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,320
Sudden, dappled reminiscences of
what life with Desmond was like.

536
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,760
And so far as she was concerned,
the pair then used to fight like

537
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,480
cat and dog. 
And yeah, I can imagine if if 

538
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:17,440
any relative of mine announced 
in a best selling novel that 

539
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,560
that was one of the things that 
I like to get up to. 

540
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,680
Yeah, I don't think I'd be 
terribly happy. 

541
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,560
The Yanks were coming and we had
our first case of Crabs. 

542
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,280
I had no idea what crabs was, or
as Smudgesmit said. 

543
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,760
The Sandy Mcnabbs. 
The victim was Sergeant Cusack. 

544
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,160
He discovered he'd got them on 
the eve of a week's leave. 

545
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,800
The MO told him to apply Blue 
Unction. 

546
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,760
Now, Blue Unction has only one 
use to destroy crabs. 

547
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,320
Knowing this, Sergeant Cusack 
entered Boots in Piccadilly with

548
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,440
the Prescription during the rush
hour on Friday. 

549
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,600
It was crowded. 
He whispered to the assistant. 

550
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,670
Can I have some blue unction? 
In a voice that should be heard 

551
00:33:57,710 --> 00:33:59,310
up Regent Street, the assistant 
said. 

552
00:33:59,630 --> 00:34:02,430
Blue. 
I'm thin, Chrisack replied twice

553
00:34:02,430 --> 00:34:05,350
as loud. 
Yes, I've got bloody crabs to 

554
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:06,870
hear me. 
I've got crabs. 

555
00:34:09,670 --> 00:34:13,630
It's very much a life as it's 
lived sort of thing. 

556
00:34:13,630 --> 00:34:18,300
I mean, it's the first. 
I've ever read where you get 

557
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:21,580
like, stuff where blokes are in 
the shower and they're basically

558
00:34:21,580 --> 00:34:25,219
comparing each other's sizes and
things, you know, like Christ is

559
00:34:25,219 --> 00:34:28,860
poor wife and stuff like that. 
I mean, you know, you don't get 

560
00:34:28,860 --> 00:34:31,940
that in like Montgomery's 
memoirs or anything like that. 

561
00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:38,500
So it's it's very much the the 
barrack rooms from the ground 

562
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:41,179
up. 
You know, you're seeing the army

563
00:34:41,179 --> 00:34:45,179
from the inside out. 
In this it's it's as you say. 

564
00:34:45,179 --> 00:34:49,100
It's not sanitized in any way. 
Yeah, setting light. 

565
00:34:49,100 --> 00:34:53,780
Setting light to farts, yes, or 
posting blasts as milling. 

566
00:34:54,980 --> 00:34:59,820
A trouser trumpet voluntary. 
And he calls, he calls the the 

567
00:34:59,820 --> 00:35:03,140
performers that set fire to 
these as he calls them artists. 

568
00:35:03,860 --> 00:35:07,180
Yes, absolutely and and of 
course. 

569
00:35:07,810 --> 00:35:11,370
You know that possibly the 
funniest bit in the entire book 

570
00:35:11,370 --> 00:35:17,810
for me, The performance in the 
garden during the break, in the 

571
00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:22,730
dinner dance where everybody 
goes out to the garden for a 

572
00:35:22,730 --> 00:35:27,250
leak and as Milligan says, 
finding a Bush, we ease springs.

573
00:35:27,770 --> 00:35:30,570
These are accompanied by the 
usual poster blasts, each one 

574
00:35:30,570 --> 00:35:32,250
greeted with cries up. 
Good luck. 

575
00:35:32,370 --> 00:35:35,090
Fall out, the officers drink up.
Mine's a Guinness. 

576
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,120
And as their eyes became 
accustomed to the dark, the 

577
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,440
suddenly realized the over on a 
on a garden seat Tony Goldsmith 

578
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,680
sitting there with the object of
of his desires. 

579
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:49,080
And as they all tried to sneak 
away, he just calls out. 

580
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,120
Thank you gentlemen. 
And what time's the next 

581
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,200
performance? 
Yeah, it's you don't get that in

582
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:56,760
your standard warm and water, do
you? 

583
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,120
No, just talking about female 
relations. 

584
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,720
I don't mean, I don't mean his 
mother, but in terms of, you 

585
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,830
know. 
There's there's lots of soldiers

586
00:36:07,830 --> 00:36:10,430
having well sleep, he says. 1 
soldier was sleeping with so 

587
00:36:10,430 --> 00:36:12,830
many officers, wives, he was 
excused clothes. 

588
00:36:14,350 --> 00:36:19,190
Yes, yes, absolutely. 
And there's a there's a moment 

589
00:36:19,350 --> 00:36:26,710
in it as well where Milligan has
an excitingly acrobatic night 

590
00:36:26,710 --> 00:36:30,630
out with a married woman, and 
then about a week later he gets 

591
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:33,150
a lift and he can smell her 
perfume in the car. 

592
00:36:33,940 --> 00:36:37,180
Yes, as well, that one that that
stands out as well. 

593
00:36:37,940 --> 00:36:41,580
He meets just before he's off to
Algiers. 

594
00:36:41,580 --> 00:36:44,460
There's this dinner, dinner, 
dance, dinner and dance. 

595
00:36:45,260 --> 00:36:49,300
And there Spike meets and hooks 
up with a woman called Betty. 

596
00:36:50,020 --> 00:36:54,420
He spends quite a bit of time 
with leading up to embarking, 

597
00:36:54,940 --> 00:36:57,460
and he said she later wrote in 
sizzling letters, which he 

598
00:36:57,460 --> 00:37:00,860
auctioned off. 
To the. 

599
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:04,420
I can't remember the exact 
phrase, but isn't it kind of the

600
00:37:04,580 --> 00:37:10,340
various people in the artillery 
section or whatever, Just 

601
00:37:10,380 --> 00:37:12,260
basically you're Randy British. 
Squaddy. 

602
00:37:12,380 --> 00:37:18,820
Yeah, yeah. 
He's got no time for the 

603
00:37:18,820 --> 00:37:20,940
commanding officers, apart from 
Chater Jack, of course. 

604
00:37:20,940 --> 00:37:25,300
But he's constantly poking fun 
at the sergeants like Jumbo Day 

605
00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:30,340
and then the Sergeant Belcombe. 
And he he writes about Sergeant 

606
00:37:30,340 --> 00:37:33,240
Belcombe. 
And you can just hear the voice 

607
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:36,960
in your head, can't you? 
As he says that he says, Belkin 

608
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:40,520
spoke with that sound peculiar 
to the cockney larynx when he 

609
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,240
tries to speak posh. 
To obtain this metallic sound, 

610
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:48,320
you press the chin down onto the
throat, apply slight pressure to

611
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,200
the Adam's apple purse, the 
lips, the lower one slightly 

612
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,920
protruding. 
Tense the tongue. 

613
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,360
Lay it flat in the well beneath 
the lower teeth and say. 

614
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,420
You all going to be? 
Only been little soldiers. 

615
00:38:02,420 --> 00:38:05,060
Be the team ain't finished with 
you, that sort of thing. 

616
00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:06,500
Yeah. 
Sir, it's when you speak to an 

617
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:08,900
officer. 
Yes, absolutely. 

618
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:11,420
Oh, that's a beautiful moment, 
that. 

619
00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:16,700
Probably the most famous line 
from this book, if you like, is 

620
00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:19,780
the opening sentence or opening 
paragraph. 

621
00:38:22,860 --> 00:38:25,580
And I wonder how long he 
agonized over this because it 

622
00:38:25,580 --> 00:38:28,180
kind of sets the tone for the 
rest of the book when he talks 

623
00:38:28,180 --> 00:38:31,710
about the fact that. 
His mother's digging the air 

624
00:38:31,710 --> 00:38:36,430
raid shelter. 
Yes, she's a great little woman,

625
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:42,390
getting smaller all the time. 
I know 2 minutes later a man 

626
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:44,630
called Chamberlain, who did 
Prime Minister impressions, 

627
00:38:44,630 --> 00:38:48,190
spoke on the wireless. 
Yeah, Chamberlain's stepping 

628
00:38:48,190 --> 00:38:51,430
down for a better man. 
So Milligan's dad wrote off for 

629
00:38:51,430 --> 00:38:55,950
the job. 
Just think, little lines that 

630
00:38:55,950 --> 00:38:58,190
just tossed off, if you like, 
you know, just chucked off. 

631
00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:58,910
Chucked. 
What? 

632
00:38:58,910 --> 00:39:02,710
Not chucked away, but just, you 
know, just these perfect little 

633
00:39:02,710 --> 00:39:04,670
one liners. 
Absolutely. 

634
00:39:05,390 --> 00:39:09,990
And an awful lot of them. 
Again, I mean, obviously because

635
00:39:09,990 --> 00:39:12,670
Milligan's got his own unique 
style. 

636
00:39:12,710 --> 00:39:16,950
There's nobody writes like 
Milligan, for better or worse. 

637
00:39:16,950 --> 00:39:18,590
There's nobody writes like 
Milligan. 

638
00:39:18,590 --> 00:39:22,030
But you know, things like with 
head held high and feet held 

639
00:39:22,030 --> 00:39:24,510
high on my father was thrown 
out, I mean. 

640
00:39:25,540 --> 00:39:28,820
You can imagine him giggling at 
the typewriter when he wasn't 

641
00:39:28,900 --> 00:39:32,180
cursing and throwing it out of 
the window, narrowly avoiding 

642
00:39:32,260 --> 00:39:36,060
hitting Eric Sikes or whatever, 
but just that. 

643
00:39:36,620 --> 00:39:41,580
Yeah, just and his awareness of 
how ridiculous it always as 

644
00:39:41,580 --> 00:39:46,740
well. 
Sorry, I'm just looking at a 

645
00:39:46,740 --> 00:39:51,140
page here of just the line, 
whereupon he was immediately 

646
00:39:51,140 --> 00:39:53,900
nipped in the scrotum, thrown 
out, and his horse whipped into 

647
00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:56,010
a gallop. 
It's like you're not gonna get 

648
00:39:56,010 --> 00:39:57,890
that from anybody apart from 
Spike, are you? 

649
00:40:00,450 --> 00:40:04,810
Yeah. 
OK, tell me what? 

650
00:40:05,370 --> 00:40:07,770
What is it? 
What's what's so bad about the 

651
00:40:08,570 --> 00:40:10,850
Warsaw Concerto? 
I? 

652
00:40:10,850 --> 00:40:13,370
Wish I knew. 
I wish I knew it. 

653
00:40:13,490 --> 00:40:17,170
I guess it's just the the fact 
that it keeps on turning up. 

654
00:40:17,170 --> 00:40:20,130
It's obviously something that 
absolutely. 

655
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,400
Just works on Milligan like, you
know, somebody brushing a cat 

656
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,840
backwards. 
If you do go back and reread the

657
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,800
rest of the war memoirs, you'll 
find he's got an allergy to 

658
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,720
Gracie Fields as well. 
That's. 

659
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,560
Right, I remember. 
That later on that she keeps 

660
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,840
popping up, it's. 
I mean, I don't know is it Anton

661
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,600
Walbrook keeps, keeps being 
mentioned. 

662
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,160
He goes to see at least one film
with with Anton Walbrook. 

663
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,400
It's got the bloody awful Warsaw
concerto in it so. 

664
00:40:51,110 --> 00:40:56,710
Presumably they must have used 
it as a morale thing in wartime 

665
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:59,030
films. 
I don't know enough to actually 

666
00:40:59,030 --> 00:41:02,510
be able to confirm that, but it 
there's definitely something 

667
00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:06,070
about it that gets it. 
Yeah, and it is. 

668
00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:10,710
As a result, I can now not think
of it without calling it the 

669
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:14,990
bloody Awful Warsaw Concerto. 
I've got no feelings about it 

670
00:41:14,990 --> 00:41:17,710
one way or another, but it is 
always in my head gonna be the 

671
00:41:17,710 --> 00:41:19,750
bloody awful Warsaw Concerto, 
yeah? 

672
00:41:21,070 --> 00:41:25,350
There's a sequence again talking
about Barrett room japes at 

673
00:41:25,350 --> 00:41:32,950
night, when they would sometimes
put a sleeping man's hand in a 

674
00:41:32,950 --> 00:41:36,590
bowl of water to to make him 
whittle himself. 

675
00:41:37,830 --> 00:41:40,430
I'm not sure that that actually 
works well. 

676
00:41:41,190 --> 00:41:42,870
I certainly don't want to find 
out. 

677
00:41:42,990 --> 00:41:46,270
But, but do you remember when 
you were a kid hearing that 

678
00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:49,830
people it was kind of like a 
little sort of schoolyard urban 

679
00:41:49,830 --> 00:41:52,170
myth? 
You like, you know, you'd hear 

680
00:41:52,170 --> 00:41:55,370
people say if you, you know, if 
you got someone at a party who's

681
00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:57,530
so drunk that they fall asleep, 
you put the hand in a bowl of 

682
00:41:57,530 --> 00:41:58,690
water and they'll piss 
themselves. 

683
00:41:59,530 --> 00:42:02,890
Do you reckon that that that 
originated from people reading 

684
00:42:02,890 --> 00:42:05,450
this book? 
Oh, it's entirely possible. 

685
00:42:05,450 --> 00:42:09,170
Now, come to think about it, I 
would imagine that this book was

686
00:42:09,170 --> 00:42:12,250
one of those ones that kind of 
got passed around the playground

687
00:42:12,250 --> 00:42:14,410
because it's got root bits. 
In it, Yeah, yeah. 

688
00:42:15,010 --> 00:42:16,770
Because I remember there's also,
you know, the. 

689
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:23,080
It's gotta be in one of the 
later books where Milligan's 

690
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,360
having a pea into a river and 
talks about the little fish that

691
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,600
swim up the urine. 
Yes. 

692
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,800
Now that's one of the memoirs, 
isn't it? 

693
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,320
That's one of the memos. 
And that is also a playground 

694
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,520
myth. 
That one went round our 

695
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:37,840
playground as well. 
Yeah. 

696
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:39,960
Yes. 
Weird. 

697
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,120
At least things stick, isn't it?
Yeah. 

698
00:42:42,650 --> 00:42:45,930
Talking about urine. 
Excellent thing. 

699
00:42:46,290 --> 00:42:51,690
Again, he's quite frank. 
Talking about the men pissing in

700
00:42:51,690 --> 00:42:56,810
their boots to keep them soft 
and supple, yes, followed by 

701
00:42:57,130 --> 00:42:59,970
cries of horror The next morning
when people forget to empty them

702
00:42:59,970 --> 00:43:06,810
out, there's a weird. 
Again, is it? 

703
00:43:07,210 --> 00:43:10,610
There's more than one occasion 
where superior officers get 

704
00:43:10,610 --> 00:43:12,490
drowned in piss in this book, 
isn't there? 

705
00:43:12,490 --> 00:43:15,490
There's one. 
Or am I conflating 2? 

706
00:43:15,490 --> 00:43:20,050
There's one, the thing with the 
gun bucket that's rotted the 

707
00:43:20,050 --> 00:43:23,490
floorboards. 
Yeah, And comes down in the 

708
00:43:23,490 --> 00:43:27,290
middle of the night and yeah, 
then there's the other one right

709
00:43:27,290 --> 00:43:29,690
at the very end. 
It's on the last page where a 

710
00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:33,330
superior officer gets his. 
Get second degree burns on his 

711
00:43:33,330 --> 00:43:37,370
bum because he drops a match 
into the latrine and it explodes

712
00:43:37,370 --> 00:43:40,130
on him. 
Yeah, he says. 

713
00:43:40,170 --> 00:43:42,570
He says of that. 
As I say, does he say that's 

714
00:43:42,570 --> 00:43:46,330
right at the end. 
And Milligan says that he was 

715
00:43:46,330 --> 00:43:49,490
our last casualty before we 
actually went into action next 

716
00:43:49,970 --> 00:43:51,330
time. 
Next time it would be for real. 

717
00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:55,530
Excellent. 
Just one last urine related 

718
00:43:57,450 --> 00:44:00,330
extract. 
He talks about Gunna Mossman. 

719
00:44:01,540 --> 00:44:05,820
Who would always get drunk and 
then have a piss in the same 

720
00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:11,180
corner of the barracks? 
And some other soldier was 

721
00:44:11,180 --> 00:44:13,940
transferred or something or 
posted and asked if he could 

722
00:44:13,940 --> 00:44:16,220
sleep in that corner. 
And obviously Ghana Mossman came

723
00:44:16,220 --> 00:44:20,500
in later that night and did the 
business and there was a frakar 

724
00:44:20,540 --> 00:44:22,340
and then there's an official 
order. 

725
00:44:22,610 --> 00:44:26,250
The next morning the practice of
urinating on sleeping comrades 

726
00:44:26,250 --> 00:44:29,330
must cease. 
Yes, absolutely. 

727
00:44:29,890 --> 00:44:33,490
Unofficial memo and the belief 
that it's going to stop them 

728
00:44:33,490 --> 00:44:36,290
doing that as well. 
There's also there's these 

729
00:44:36,290 --> 00:44:41,250
little exchanges between 
Milligan and senior officers, 

730
00:44:41,250 --> 00:44:43,730
which again, the pure fantasy 
surely to God. 

731
00:44:43,730 --> 00:44:45,370
But I just love them. 
I've highlighted them. 

732
00:44:45,650 --> 00:44:48,610
Roll call One morning, Nick. 
TA. 

733
00:44:49,770 --> 00:44:53,590
And you didn't ta million. 
Milligan. 

734
00:44:54,710 --> 00:44:57,990
Donna. 
Milligan, why didn't you answer 

735
00:44:57,990 --> 00:45:00,110
the first time? 
I thought I'd being a little 

736
00:45:00,110 --> 00:45:06,310
tension into your life, Serge. 
Followed by at least six days of

737
00:45:06,310 --> 00:45:08,350
punishment duty immediately 
afterwards. 

738
00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:12,830
Jenkins is what they call 
confined to your barracks, 

739
00:45:12,830 --> 00:45:15,950
wasn't it? 
Yes, yes, I think so. 

740
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:20,190
I've just, I've just looked up 
the. 

741
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,360
They're trying to put a tent up 
as well. 

742
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,200
There's a few swear words in 
this, but they are bona fide. 

743
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,040
You know, so I know this these 
aren't for the years of 

744
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:29,920
children, but so if you have any
children's ears, would you 

745
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,680
please put them in the box and 
hand them at the new position? 

746
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,720
We were to live under canvas. 
It's very simple, said Sergeant 

747
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:38,120
Dawson. 
He was talking about putting up 

748
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:39,800
a tent. 
I've been camping a lot in my 

749
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,800
town and I'll show the 30 
signals. 

750
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,440
Drove to the RAOC Depot, Drygate
and the three ton Tuck, which 

751
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,120
made some of the nature of 28 
tons. 

752
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,760
We've shown a great piece of 
rolled canvas, 6 foot by 10 by 5

753
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:51,860
foot. 
From it hung numerous lengths of

754
00:45:51,860 --> 00:45:55,060
trailing ropes. 
In picking the thing up it was 

755
00:45:55,060 --> 00:45:58,140
impossible not to stand on them.
We lifted must have weighed all 

756
00:45:58,140 --> 00:46:00,420
of 400 weight and it all seemed 
to be on my side. 

757
00:46:01,260 --> 00:46:03,780
It was but a few yards to the 
truck, but somehow we found it 

758
00:46:03,780 --> 00:46:07,580
impossible to get there. 
The lump was moved in a much the

759
00:46:07,580 --> 00:46:09,700
same confused way that ants 
carry a twig. 

760
00:46:10,180 --> 00:46:13,020
That is, there was a fair bit of
going round in a circle, 3 paces

761
00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:15,380
backwards, a little bit 
sideways, then lots of going 

762
00:46:15,380 --> 00:46:18,420
round and round again. 
Straining around the edge were 

763
00:46:18,420 --> 00:46:20,900
about 20 Gunners, while 
underneath, taking the weight on

764
00:46:20,900 --> 00:46:24,060
the heads, was another 10. 
There was frequent swearing, 

765
00:46:24,180 --> 00:46:26,940
unending strings of 
instructions, but progress none 

766
00:46:27,780 --> 00:46:30,220
The far side of the lump had 
started to unfold, so the 

767
00:46:30,220 --> 00:46:33,020
carriers on that side were lost 
to sight and carrying blind. 

768
00:46:33,580 --> 00:46:35,100
The whole thing was becoming 
absurd. 

769
00:46:36,580 --> 00:46:38,780
The lump was coming to pieces as
we continually taught of the 

770
00:46:38,780 --> 00:46:41,020
trailing ropes. 
Those on the outside were 

771
00:46:41,020 --> 00:46:43,300
getting tired, and the lump was 
getting lower and lower as the 

772
00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:46,900
men underneath wilted. 
Finally collapsed in a heap of 

773
00:46:46,900 --> 00:46:49,340
swearing Gunners, the second 
attempt to start. 

774
00:46:49,340 --> 00:46:52,220
At this time we just dragged the
thing by its trailing edges and 

775
00:46:52,220 --> 00:46:54,300
forced it into the lorry. 
Like stuffing a Turkey. 

776
00:46:55,060 --> 00:46:59,460
The lump now seem much larger. 
We called on top of it and moved

777
00:46:59,460 --> 00:47:01,740
off. 
On arrival we dragged what was 

778
00:47:01,740 --> 00:47:04,580
now a long, uncontrolled canvas 
mess. 

779
00:47:04,580 --> 00:47:06,220
Through the woods. 
To the site. 

780
00:47:06,660 --> 00:47:08,020
Sergeant Dorst was waiting 
there. 

781
00:47:08,940 --> 00:47:09,940
What's a dirty little? 
He said. 

782
00:47:10,620 --> 00:47:12,900
How many had explained? 
We fucked it up, Sir. 

783
00:47:16,820 --> 00:47:22,820
Yeah, squaddies versus official 
dump is obviously a major theme 

784
00:47:23,220 --> 00:47:25,500
all the way through this. 
Everybody just basically taking 

785
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:27,820
the mortal piss out of each 
other to try and get by, I 

786
00:47:27,820 --> 00:47:30,620
think. 
There's a time when Milligan 

787
00:47:30,620 --> 00:47:34,100
does something so heinous. 
I'm trying to find a bit now, 

788
00:47:34,100 --> 00:47:38,100
actually. 
Oh, he was hiding rifles in a 

789
00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:40,820
loft. 
Oh yes, I think it gets it. 

790
00:47:40,980 --> 00:47:45,460
Solitary he sent to Preston 
Barracks and Brighton and given 

791
00:47:45,460 --> 00:47:52,540
these really menial tasks, like 
shoveling coke into a single 

792
00:47:52,540 --> 00:47:56,860
pile in pouring rain. 
But he says that he would 

793
00:47:56,860 --> 00:48:02,780
receive regular visits in his 
cell from a humorless medical 

794
00:48:02,780 --> 00:48:07,090
officer. 
And the first visit from this 

795
00:48:07,090 --> 00:48:11,690
MO, there's a little framed 
photograph of a woman and the MO

796
00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:14,330
says, who's that photo of? 
Spike says my fiance. 

797
00:48:14,330 --> 00:48:19,610
And the MO says throw it away. 
So the next time that the MO is 

798
00:48:19,610 --> 00:48:22,570
Jude Milligan's bitten all his 
fingernails and put the 

799
00:48:22,570 --> 00:48:25,170
fingernail bits, I think on the 
table. 

800
00:48:25,170 --> 00:48:27,330
And when the MO comes in, he 
says, what are those? 

801
00:48:27,970 --> 00:48:29,730
And Milligan says they're my 
fiance's. 

802
00:48:29,730 --> 00:48:32,090
So. 
And he says throw them away. 

803
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:36,950
And then the following visit, 
Milligan's got a I've got a lock

804
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:38,990
of hair. 
What's that? 

805
00:48:38,990 --> 00:48:40,310
It's my fiance. 
So throw it away. 

806
00:48:40,310 --> 00:48:42,910
Etc, etc, etc. 
And Milligan says he was 

807
00:48:42,910 --> 00:48:47,110
planning on the coup de grace to
be an artificial limb, but he 

808
00:48:47,110 --> 00:48:48,950
was. 
But he was released. 

809
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:52,550
Before that could be realized. 
Not brilliant. 

810
00:48:52,550 --> 00:48:54,670
And the copper of that, of 
course. 

811
00:48:54,670 --> 00:48:57,830
Being there the officer gets 
drafted oversea killed during an

812
00:48:57,830 --> 00:49:01,550
air raid on Tobruk when a Naffy 
tear falls on his. 

813
00:49:01,550 --> 00:49:06,550
Head yeah, which I think he I 
think I meant to check before 

814
00:49:06,550 --> 00:49:10,070
this actually cuz I think 
Milligan uses that, you know the

815
00:49:10,070 --> 00:49:12,990
tea on falling on the head you 
know when the goon show scripts 

816
00:49:12,990 --> 00:49:14,750
or the more goon show scripts 
when he does those little 

817
00:49:14,750 --> 00:49:17,420
character. 
Descriptions for the future 

818
00:49:17,660 --> 00:49:19,780
characters and there's William 
May Cobbler's I think it's 

819
00:49:19,780 --> 00:49:23,700
William May Cobbler's injured in
combat during the war when a 

820
00:49:23,700 --> 00:49:26,340
tear falls on his head. 
I think you're right. 

821
00:49:26,620 --> 00:49:31,100
I think you're right actually, 
having obviously the William bit

822
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:32,540
that always sticks in my head 
from that. 

823
00:49:32,540 --> 00:49:35,940
Is that hobbies wandering around
saying you can't park there to 

824
00:49:35,940 --> 00:49:39,100
anyone who lives something like 
that isn't it? 

825
00:49:39,100 --> 00:49:42,100
But yeah, I'm just looking at 
the list of things that Milligan

826
00:49:42,100 --> 00:49:45,540
has to do and. 
Is solitary confinement. 

827
00:49:45,540 --> 00:49:49,020
It seems to be one day it's all 
right, and then the next day 

828
00:49:49,020 --> 00:49:51,700
they give him something 
absolutely terrible to do. 

829
00:49:52,180 --> 00:49:57,540
You know, the six 6 foot high 
piles of coke into 1U conical 

830
00:49:57,540 --> 00:49:58,740
heap. 
And then the next day he's 

831
00:49:58,740 --> 00:50:00,740
drawing naked girls for the 
guard room. 

832
00:50:01,580 --> 00:50:03,900
Yeah. 
And then the next day after 

833
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:06,420
that, it's a trip to the beach 
to collect winkles for 

834
00:50:06,420 --> 00:50:09,100
Sergeant's mess. 
Tea winkles, for God's sake. 

835
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:16,550
Oh, that's the saluting traps. 
It's like because, you know, 

836
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:21,750
officers are conditioned to 
salute as they walk past another

837
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:23,630
soldier. 
And so basically they set off at

838
00:50:23,630 --> 00:50:27,510
10 second intervals and watch as
the officer saluted his way to 

839
00:50:27,590 --> 00:50:33,630
paralysis of the arm. 
It's there's a real, real 

840
00:50:33,630 --> 00:50:37,550
feeling of kind of like this, 
not even a war, but just 

841
00:50:38,510 --> 00:50:43,730
officers versus. 
Versus the ranks basically just 

842
00:50:43,970 --> 00:50:48,210
constantly pushing against each 
other just in in order to get 

843
00:50:48,210 --> 00:50:50,690
through, in order to survive 
life in the army. 

844
00:50:50,690 --> 00:50:52,850
Really. 
Yeah, if that makes any sense. 

845
00:50:52,930 --> 00:50:56,090
Yeah, yeah, I mean, they the, 
the band, they said they've got 

846
00:50:56,090 --> 00:50:58,290
this court, they they make up 
this quartet, don't they? 

847
00:50:58,570 --> 00:51:02,330
So like they've got Harry on 
piano, Spike on the trumpet, 

848
00:51:02,370 --> 00:51:04,610
Elf. 
What does elf what does health 

849
00:51:04,610 --> 00:51:05,650
play? 
Not sure what elf. 

850
00:51:06,210 --> 00:51:09,330
I think Elf's guitar and Doug's 
drums for recall, right? 

851
00:51:09,930 --> 00:51:12,860
And they play quite a number of.
Village dances and things like 

852
00:51:12,860 --> 00:51:18,260
that and that. 
One of the dancers, a drunk 

853
00:51:18,260 --> 00:51:22,980
soldier who's feeling a bit 
maudlin and aggressive, rips 

854
00:51:22,980 --> 00:51:27,100
open his shirt to reveal a scar 
on his chest and he roars. 

855
00:51:27,260 --> 00:51:30,980
Dunkirk, whereupon Milligan rips
open his shirt to reveal his 

856
00:51:30,980 --> 00:51:33,060
appendix, scar and shelves. 
Lewisham. 

857
00:51:33,060 --> 00:51:37,700
Hospital. 
Absolutely, absolutely. 

858
00:51:38,020 --> 00:51:39,580
And you can see him do it as 
well. 

859
00:51:39,860 --> 00:51:44,820
That's it. 
It's the music thing in this 

860
00:51:44,820 --> 00:51:48,140
book as well. 
It threads its way through 

861
00:51:48,140 --> 00:51:53,260
almost every page. 
It's reading about Milligan's 

862
00:51:53,260 --> 00:52:00,220
life and just how much being 
able to play an instrument meant

863
00:52:00,220 --> 00:52:05,900
to him as well. 
You just, I can only imagine how

864
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:08,240
much. 
Even worse, life must have been 

865
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:11,240
for Milligan if he if he hadn't 
been able to cut loose to play 

866
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:15,520
his trumpet whenever he whenever
he possibly got the opportunity 

867
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,160
there. 
There are moments in this book 

868
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:25,120
where you just feel that he's 
absolutely at his most content 

869
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,640
and the most content is 
basically being without band. 

870
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,720
It's and and again it might be 
something to do with the fact 

871
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:35,810
that it's his mates. 
You know his closest mates at 

872
00:52:35,810 --> 00:52:40,410
the time, but those passages 
really shine the way he can 

873
00:52:40,410 --> 00:52:44,610
still remember, like 2530 years 
after every song that they 

874
00:52:44,610 --> 00:52:48,050
played as well. 
And the fact that at one point, 

875
00:52:48,130 --> 00:52:50,770
at one point, he mentions the 
fact that there's one particular

876
00:52:50,770 --> 00:52:55,210
record that he can't hear 
anymore because it just blows 

877
00:52:55,210 --> 00:52:57,130
him apart. 
And he has to basically go off 

878
00:52:57,130 --> 00:52:59,570
and walk about for a couple of 
hours afterwards because the 

879
00:52:59,570 --> 00:53:02,250
memories become overwhelming. 
It's. 

880
00:53:02,940 --> 00:53:04,860
Well, that's that's similar. 
That's similar, sorry, That's 

881
00:53:04,860 --> 00:53:10,980
similar to when he talks about 
Millwood, which was where they 

882
00:53:10,980 --> 00:53:15,820
were posted at one point, and he
talks about he he revisits 

883
00:53:15,820 --> 00:53:20,460
Millwood in 1962 and he says the
place was full of ghosts. 

884
00:53:20,540 --> 00:53:24,820
I had to get out. 
Yeah, yeah, that that's that 

885
00:53:24,820 --> 00:53:27,380
comes up a bit later in the 
memoirs as well. 

886
00:53:27,380 --> 00:53:31,380
It's like on foreign joints or 
whatever, going back to places 

887
00:53:31,380 --> 00:53:35,240
that he was at. 
In the war, and just not being 

888
00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:39,840
able to cope. 
I mean that it's almost as if 

889
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,680
the good memories are almost 
worse for him than the bad ones 

890
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:52,040
at times. 
And it just it must have been as

891
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,120
you say, it's the place was full
of ghosts. 

892
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,800
I mean, that's the same for all 
of us, I imagine, but even more 

893
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,440
so for him. 
Indeed, he's not. 

894
00:54:02,020 --> 00:54:05,380
Trying to make himself out to be
a hero by any means or to be 

895
00:54:05,420 --> 00:54:08,660
heroic, I think at one point he 
said. 

896
00:54:08,660 --> 00:54:13,580
Well there's the bit where, so 
just before he's due to go on 

897
00:54:14,060 --> 00:54:18,340
leave, the final leave to see 
his family, he somehow gets his 

898
00:54:18,340 --> 00:54:20,860
hand injured and has to be 
bandaged. 

899
00:54:21,780 --> 00:54:24,260
Oh, when? 
When he gets his his hand 

900
00:54:24,260 --> 00:54:25,780
slammed in the tailgate of the 
truck. 

901
00:54:25,820 --> 00:54:28,340
That's it. 
Yeah, and I think he arrives 

902
00:54:28,340 --> 00:54:31,740
home with the bandaged hand. 
And there's nobody in. 

903
00:54:31,740 --> 00:54:35,660
So he goes to the local pub. 
And it's just at the time when 

904
00:54:35,660 --> 00:54:41,620
the survivors from Diap were 
being picked up around New Haven

905
00:54:42,420 --> 00:54:44,260
and it was very much on 
everyone's mind. 

906
00:54:45,140 --> 00:54:51,460
And people in the pub see Spikes
bandaged hand and put two and 

907
00:54:51,460 --> 00:54:53,020
two together and make five I 
suppose. 

908
00:54:53,020 --> 00:54:56,140
And they they assume that he's, 
you know, he's from, he's back 

909
00:54:56,140 --> 00:54:58,230
from Diap. 
And he gets a lot of sympathy 

910
00:54:58,230 --> 00:55:00,550
and free drinks and he just 
plays. 

911
00:55:00,550 --> 00:55:03,710
He plays it well. 
I think he briefly hesitates and

912
00:55:03,710 --> 00:55:06,830
then thinks I'll sort it and 
plays along and he says for two 

913
00:55:06,830 --> 00:55:11,030
hours I've been a hero. 
Yeah, yeah. 

914
00:55:11,590 --> 00:55:16,830
He knows very well that he isn't
one, but just for a couple of 

915
00:55:16,830 --> 00:55:19,470
hours he gets to pretend to be 
one and he gets free drinks out 

916
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:23,350
there as well. 
You know, as he says he realizes

917
00:55:23,350 --> 00:55:26,960
that if he said no. 
Then that would be it. 

918
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,480
The drinks would stop. 
So, you know, go ahead. 

919
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:38,360
You kind of get the feeling from
reading this that yeah, he's 

920
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:44,640
he's he kind of he's aware of 
the fact that he's perhaps not 

921
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:49,520
the bravest man there ever was. 
You know, it's he doesn't 

922
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,360
sugarcoat. 
Anything or how he feels and as 

923
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,280
you said earlier on in this, 
there are moments whenever he 

924
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:04,880
realizes that there are times 
when laughter isn't enough to 

925
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,720
get you through and you're stuck
in a terrible, terrible 

926
00:56:08,720 --> 00:56:11,960
situation and it it almost 
overwhelms him on the spot. 

927
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:16,240
On a couple of occasions is the 
bit with the the aircraft 

928
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,520
crashing and he realizes that 
the first thing that happens is.

929
00:56:21,070 --> 00:56:24,790
His fellow soldiers swarm in and
stripped them of absolutely 

930
00:56:24,790 --> 00:56:28,710
everything usable. 
I mean, that is, that's a bleak,

931
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:30,510
bleak moment in the middle of it
all. 

932
00:56:31,030 --> 00:56:33,230
Or at least that's that's how it
felt to me. 

933
00:56:34,190 --> 00:56:40,070
Yeah, on the 8th of January 43 
when they had head out to sea on

934
00:56:40,070 --> 00:56:45,710
route to Algiers, he writes. 
Somehow it had all been fun, but

935
00:56:45,710 --> 00:56:49,990
now we were on to the truth. 
I don't know why, but I started 

936
00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:53,030
to cry. 
So again, not, not not 

937
00:56:53,750 --> 00:56:57,190
embarrassed or ashamed, nor 
should he be to to, you know, to

938
00:56:57,190 --> 00:57:00,470
admit that. 
Yeah, totally. 

939
00:57:00,470 --> 00:57:06,070
It's it is just that feeling 
where up to that point it almost

940
00:57:06,070 --> 00:57:09,950
feels like you're play acting 
and then shit, suddenly it's 

941
00:57:09,950 --> 00:57:13,870
real. 
It's I'm just trying to look it 

942
00:57:13,870 --> 00:57:17,750
up. 
There's a moment I think where 

943
00:57:18,510 --> 00:57:22,290
there are. 
Taking off in the train in order

944
00:57:22,290 --> 00:57:26,290
to get to the troop carrier, and
I'm fairly sure there's a 

945
00:57:26,290 --> 00:57:32,690
comment in it about yeah, the 
train started as it pulled 

946
00:57:32,850 --> 00:57:35,770
fretfully from the station. 
I suddenly realized that some of

947
00:57:35,770 --> 00:57:40,770
us were being driven to our 
deaths as a very telling moment.

948
00:57:41,330 --> 00:57:44,730
It's almost as if the war isn't 
real up until our point. 

949
00:57:45,010 --> 00:57:48,770
Yeah, and just there's a couple 
of eccentric characters. 

950
00:57:49,580 --> 00:57:55,700
In this book that I just wanted 
to touch on, there's gonna 

951
00:57:56,420 --> 00:57:57,620
Octavian. 
Neat. 

952
00:57:57,620 --> 00:58:03,180
I'm wondering if that's, you 
know, that's a pseudonym for, 

953
00:58:04,020 --> 00:58:07,100
you know, someone who didn't 
wish to be identified. 

954
00:58:07,900 --> 00:58:15,220
Well, who knows who used to get 
naked often just around the camp

955
00:58:16,180 --> 00:58:19,180
and at one point. 
Arrives in the barracks totally 

956
00:58:19,180 --> 00:58:20,820
naked. 
I think he's wearing one sock 

957
00:58:23,060 --> 00:58:24,580
and he says. 
Anyone know a good tailor? 

958
00:58:25,540 --> 00:58:27,620
Yes, absolutely. 
And he keeps. 

959
00:58:27,980 --> 00:58:30,980
Buggering off and getting 14 
days when he comes back. 

960
00:58:30,980 --> 00:58:33,860
Yeah, yeah. 
And of course, later. 

961
00:58:34,180 --> 00:58:37,380
And obviously Milligan's, if 
this is true, which assuming it 

962
00:58:37,380 --> 00:58:42,500
is, Milligan's obviously told 
that to his friends after the 

963
00:58:42,500 --> 00:58:44,260
war. 
Because there's that story, that

964
00:58:44,260 --> 00:58:46,860
famous story that Milligan tells
of. 

965
00:58:47,660 --> 00:58:50,420
I don't know. 
In 19561957 he's at home, 

966
00:58:50,420 --> 00:58:53,460
there's a knock on the door. 
He goes to the door and there's 

967
00:58:53,460 --> 00:58:58,700
Peter Sellers, stark naked and 
says do you know a good tailor? 

968
00:58:59,100 --> 00:59:04,260
Again that it's that the the way
these these things just stick in

969
00:59:04,260 --> 00:59:06,900
your head and you may not 
consciously remember them, but 

970
00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:10,940
they bubble back up later on. 
And you know, especially if 

971
00:59:10,940 --> 00:59:15,140
you're having to deal on a daily
basis with Peter Sellers, it's. 

972
00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:20,780
That is a beautiful moment. 
That's, yeah. 

973
00:59:20,780 --> 00:59:23,220
I can see the pair of them doing
that, and it's not exactly 

974
00:59:23,220 --> 00:59:25,740
pleasing me, but certainly an 
image that's gonna stick in my 

975
00:59:25,740 --> 00:59:30,300
head for quite some time. 
I wonder if Peter Sellers did 

976
00:59:30,500 --> 00:59:32,820
any Groucho Marx impressions 
while he was there. 

977
00:59:33,620 --> 00:59:37,380
Thought I really hope not. 
There's also there's the sports 

978
00:59:37,380 --> 00:59:42,020
day scene, the boxing match. 
Well, there's the boxing match, 

979
00:59:42,020 --> 00:59:46,210
but there's also gun and nays. 
I think it is. 

980
00:59:47,010 --> 00:59:50,050
Oh, with with this amazing way 
of doing the high job. 

981
00:59:52,290 --> 00:59:54,650
Issuing from under the stands 
was a figure. 

982
00:59:54,650 --> 00:59:59,970
He was wearing a red hooped, 
loose football jersey, elastic, 

983
00:59:59,970 --> 01:00:02,930
waisted blue military PT shorts 
that reached well below the 

984
01:00:02,930 --> 01:00:06,530
knee, Gray Army socks dangling 
around his ankles and white 

985
01:00:06,530 --> 01:00:10,730
slightly over large pimsoles. 
He ran in a series of peculiar 

986
01:00:10,730 --> 01:00:13,770
little bounds and leaps, 
flicking his feet behind him. 

987
01:00:14,220 --> 01:00:16,980
Which I thought was some sort of
expertise muscle loosening 

988
01:00:16,980 --> 01:00:19,700
exercise. 
He was blissfully unaware of the

989
01:00:19,700 --> 01:00:23,060
comparison his comic garb made 
with his sleek muscle, 

990
01:00:23,060 --> 01:00:26,420
professional Chad opponents. 
By then he arrived at the jump 

991
01:00:26,420 --> 01:00:28,420
off, the warming up had been 
terminated. 

992
01:00:28,820 --> 01:00:31,420
The official had taken down the 
bar and temporary arrested it at

993
01:00:31,420 --> 01:00:36,020
3 foot nays, eyed it. 
He walked some 100 yards from 

994
01:00:36,020 --> 01:00:38,300
the bar, then turned and started
to run. 

995
01:00:39,500 --> 01:00:43,420
It wasn't until he was halfway 
that we realized. 

996
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,680
He intended to jump. 
He gathered a sort of lumbering 

997
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:51,560
momentum, but never got faster. 
Finally reaching his goal, he 

998
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:54,720
launched himself into a sort of 
schoolboy double your legs under

999
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,400
you style, jump, and just 
managed to clear it. 

1000
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:00,440
He seemed well, pleased, 
unconscious of the puzzle. 

1001
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,600
Look that followed. 
His effort came time for the 

1002
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,160
jump off, an official signal 
lays and asked him if he was 

1003
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,400
competing. 
Nays nodded, Nays walked back 20

1004
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:13,980
yards, turned, and now saw. 
That the officials had set the 

1005
01:01:13,980 --> 01:01:16,820
bar at 5 feet for the first 
time. 

1006
01:01:16,820 --> 01:01:19,380
He looked worried. 
He walked back a further 50 

1007
01:01:19,380 --> 01:01:21,100
yards. 
He started his approach. 

1008
01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:24,500
The stadium fell quiet as the 
great athlete had bounded across

1009
01:01:24,500 --> 01:01:26,500
the grass. 
We all felt that something 

1010
01:01:26,500 --> 01:01:30,460
unusual was about to happen. 
On and on he came, making little

1011
01:01:30,460 --> 01:01:32,140
clenching gestures with his 
hands. 

1012
01:01:32,420 --> 01:01:35,660
He reached the bar and with a 
triumphant shout of Hoy Hoy 

1013
01:01:35,780 --> 01:01:39,940
Hapla and an almighty effort, he
hurled himself upwards. 

1014
01:01:40,180 --> 01:01:42,260
The bar broke across his 
forehead. 

1015
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:44,360
Cheering broke out from the 
stands. 

1016
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:46,840
Gunnanes kept running. 
He left the field. 

1017
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,120
He left the stadium. 
He left athletics. 

1018
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:54,440
Complete with a classic little 
Milligan drawing of Gunnanes, so

1019
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:55,800
obviously he's stuck in his 
head. 

1020
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:04,040
There's a little bit quite early
on where Milligan gets his first

1021
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,880
glimpse of the enemy. 
I think he's walking along a 

1022
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:12,290
Cliff and a German plane. 
Swoops low, and he's low enough 

1023
01:02:12,290 --> 01:02:16,170
that he can see the faces of the
pilot and the copilot, and he 

1024
01:02:16,170 --> 01:02:17,890
picks up a brick and throws it 
at them. 

1025
01:02:20,810 --> 01:02:24,050
Yeah, and the sort of desperate 
hope that that's actually going 

1026
01:02:24,050 --> 01:02:31,010
to achieve anything. 
Again, it's been a while since I

1027
01:02:31,010 --> 01:02:34,050
actually read this, but there's 
a bit later on in the memoirs 

1028
01:02:34,050 --> 01:02:38,930
where he a plane flies low over 
him and he basically. 

1029
01:02:39,530 --> 01:02:43,930
Points his finger at it and 
shouts bang and the plane 

1030
01:02:43,930 --> 01:02:49,410
crashes and he develops kind of 
this mystical reputation amongst

1031
01:02:49,410 --> 01:02:52,490
the rest of the battery for his 
ability to down jump in planes 

1032
01:02:52,610 --> 01:03:00,250
just by shouting at them. 
So and yeah and again the the 

1033
01:03:00,250 --> 01:03:03,770
whole thing and certainly in 
this early part of the book and 

1034
01:03:03,850 --> 01:03:06,770
you get this in Dad's Army as 
well the no ammunition. 

1035
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:10,720
Thing in the early part of the 
war, you know the fact that 

1036
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:13,600
they're actually having to play 
act, which is probably. 

1037
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:18,360
Why, towards the end of the 
book, as you say, as they leave,

1038
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:23,280
he starts to cry because all of 
a sudden it's everything's gone 

1039
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,680
live. 
Yeah, it's Showtime. 

1040
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,120
Yeah, exactly. 
Rehearsals over. 

1041
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:37,040
You don't really get the sense 
in this that he's pacifistic. 

1042
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:41,840
During this period he's not gung
ho, but he's he does this. 

1043
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,880
There's little lines here and 
there where you know he's he he 

1044
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:47,600
gives the impression that he's 
really anti German. 

1045
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:52,720
You know, it's us against them. 
You know he's quite, he's swept 

1046
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:54,600
up in the whole fervour of the 
war. 

1047
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:01,600
But there is a bit when they're 
in Bexhill and I think they can 

1048
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:04,400
see that he describes it as a 
sky on fire. 

1049
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:08,170
They can see. 
Far away just because of the the

1050
01:04:08,170 --> 01:04:11,130
color of the sky that London's 
being bombed and they can't they

1051
01:04:11,130 --> 01:04:14,730
can't get through to the loved 
ones on the telephone And he 

1052
01:04:14,770 --> 01:04:16,850
they're all worrying about their
families you know those that 

1053
01:04:16,850 --> 01:04:21,770
live in London and it's and he 
says he's the the the tone of 

1054
01:04:21,770 --> 01:04:25,690
that is he kind of exhibits 
these faint stirrings of 

1055
01:04:25,890 --> 01:04:30,970
pacifism which I guess we're 
obviously to to grow and to 

1056
01:04:31,010 --> 01:04:35,570
develop and take hold. 
Yeah, You kind of get the 

1057
01:04:35,570 --> 01:04:40,610
feeling that, you know, he might
not necessarily have been 

1058
01:04:41,850 --> 01:04:46,930
actively pacifist, but because 
of what he saw and what he went 

1059
01:04:46,930 --> 01:04:54,050
through, it was basically, yeah,
that everything changes for him 

1060
01:04:54,050 --> 01:04:57,290
because of the war, that you 
know that there's there's 

1061
01:04:57,370 --> 01:05:02,730
Milligan before he gets drafted 
and then pretty much everything 

1062
01:05:02,730 --> 01:05:04,540
that he is. 
Yeah. 

1063
01:05:05,060 --> 01:05:09,660
So as a result of what happens 
to him, it's he sees death 

1064
01:05:10,020 --> 01:05:14,180
basically at close quarters is 
probably the best way I can 

1065
01:05:14,180 --> 01:05:17,940
describe it. 
And Milligan being Milligan, of 

1066
01:05:17,940 --> 01:05:23,860
course, you know the first 
defense is humor, but the black 

1067
01:05:23,860 --> 01:05:26,500
dogs immediately behind. 
Him at all times? 

1068
01:05:26,780 --> 01:05:31,100
Yeah, absolutely. 
You know that there's the the 

1069
01:05:31,100 --> 01:05:36,100
whole thing about Milligan, the 
poet as well, and an awful lot 

1070
01:05:36,100 --> 01:05:39,980
of his writing. 
Certainly every now and then, 

1071
01:05:40,060 --> 01:05:44,340
you know, with Milligan, the the
jokes just stop and he gets 

1072
01:05:44,340 --> 01:05:47,940
wonderfully lyrical. 
There's this bit I wanted to 

1073
01:05:47,940 --> 01:05:52,540
raise about what it was like in 
the summer of 1941. 

1074
01:05:53,940 --> 01:05:56,140
It's very idealized. 
Envision. 

1075
01:05:56,140 --> 01:05:59,820
Because I'm sure, like Britain, 
Britain during wartime was not 

1076
01:06:00,860 --> 01:06:03,660
entirely like this. 
But the way he describes it is 

1077
01:06:03,660 --> 01:06:05,220
beautiful. 
If you don't mind, I'll just 

1078
01:06:05,220 --> 01:06:06,540
read it because I put it 
highlighted. 

1079
01:06:06,540 --> 01:06:10,620
Yeah, no matter what season, the
Sussex countryside was always a 

1080
01:06:10,620 --> 01:06:13,900
pleasure, but the summer of 1941
was a delight. 

1081
01:06:14,380 --> 01:06:17,380
The late lambs on spring heel 
legs danced their happiness. 

1082
01:06:17,700 --> 01:06:21,340
Hot immobile cows chewed sweet 
card under the leaf, choked 

1083
01:06:21,340 --> 01:06:24,380
limbs of Juneaux that were young
500 years past. 

1084
01:06:25,170 --> 01:06:27,530
The must have Bramble of 
BlackBerry hedges with purple 

1085
01:06:27,530 --> 01:06:30,090
black fruit offering themselves 
to passing hands. 

1086
01:06:30,530 --> 01:06:33,770
Poppies, red, red, red, tracking
the sun with open throated 

1087
01:06:33,770 --> 01:06:36,850
petals. 
Birds bickering aloft, bibulous 

1088
01:06:36,850 --> 01:06:39,850
to the sun. 
White fleecy clouds passing 

1089
01:06:39,850 --> 01:06:43,530
high, changing shapes as if 
uncertain of what they were to 

1090
01:06:43,530 --> 01:06:46,450
break for smoke To lie on that 
beckoning grass and watch 

1091
01:06:46,450 --> 01:06:49,730
cabbage white butterflies 
dancing on the wind everywhere, 

1092
01:06:49,730 --> 01:06:53,250
was saying, befank, It isn't 
that lovely, it's beautiful. 

1093
01:06:53,950 --> 01:06:57,950
Not just lovely and then a 
couple of pages after that we're

1094
01:06:57,950 --> 01:07:02,910
back to the FARC guys and 
whatever, but just and 

1095
01:07:03,310 --> 01:07:05,270
immediately below that we've got
the line. 

1096
01:07:05,270 --> 01:07:08,310
I started to read the situations
vacant in the Daily Telegraph 

1097
01:07:08,310 --> 01:07:12,790
and prematurely advertised. 
Gunner 954-O2 Four retired house

1098
01:07:12,790 --> 01:07:16,030
trained, war hero unexpectedly 
vacant, Can pull a piece of 

1099
01:07:16,030 --> 01:07:17,990
string and chat bang with 
confidence. 

1100
01:07:18,590 --> 01:07:21,150
So basically you've got both 
Milligan's on one page there. 

1101
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:23,270
That's one of the things that 
makes. 

1102
01:07:23,350 --> 01:07:26,990
This book, Magic, for me, it's 
totally everything about Spike 

1103
01:07:26,990 --> 01:07:29,150
is in it, if that makes any 
sense. 

1104
01:07:30,150 --> 01:07:31,390
Yeah. 
And if listeners haven't read 

1105
01:07:31,390 --> 01:07:34,790
the book, as we say, it's a very
slim volume, but 140 odd pages, 

1106
01:07:34,790 --> 01:07:38,510
so you can read it in a day. 
But I did. 

1107
01:07:38,670 --> 01:07:40,320
Yeah. 
And me? 

1108
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:44,760
The book was adapted into a film
quite soon after publication, 

1109
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:48,920
Adolf Hitler, My Partner's 
Downfall, starring everyone's 

1110
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:53,840
favorite, Jim Dale as Spike as 
the young Spike and Spike 

1111
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,240
himself as his. 
Father, what a surprise for you,

1112
01:07:56,240 --> 01:08:02,600
Terrence Shadow, leave us on 
1934. 

1113
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,360
He won it in a raffle. 
It's a chill to temperature. 

1114
01:08:09,590 --> 01:08:13,590
I remember we've always been a 
close family, never been parted 

1115
01:08:13,590 --> 01:08:17,109
before. 
Anyhow, let's hope that after 

1116
01:08:17,109 --> 01:08:21,149
this war we're still together 
and happy in one piece till it's

1117
01:08:21,149 --> 01:08:23,870
over. 
Then let's string a toast to the

1118
01:08:23,870 --> 01:08:27,990
family to 1,000,000. 
He's only in it twice, but God, 

1119
01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:30,950
he makes it count. 
Does spite with Pat Coons as his

1120
01:08:30,950 --> 01:08:33,229
mom, which is an interesting 
little. 

1121
01:08:34,670 --> 01:08:38,399
So yeah. 
It's it's a very, very good film

1122
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,880
and I utterly recommend that. 
I enjoyed it much, much more 

1123
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:44,080
than I was expecting to. 
I watched it for the first time 

1124
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:45,720
yesterday. 
It's. 

1125
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:48,120
It doesn't. 
It doesn't get. 

1126
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:52,359
It's generally regarded to have 
been a bit of a stinker, but I 

1127
01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:54,279
saw it years ago. 
I haven't seen it since and I 

1128
01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:58,600
can't remember a lot about it. 
I will probably be doing it on 

1129
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,120
this show at some point in the 
future, but I can. 

1130
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,800
I can revisit it then. 
And yeah, and. 

1131
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:11,200
The book was also adapted into 
an LP in 1981, featuring 

1132
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:18,120
Milligan with guest artists John
Wells, Alan Clare and of course 

1133
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:22,960
Graham Stark. 
And there's also a stage play in

1134
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:29,319
2009. 
So conclusions, what 

1135
01:09:29,319 --> 01:09:32,800
conclusions? 
I mean, I I would say this is 

1136
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:34,880
this. 
Having not reread the others 

1137
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:37,640
yet, I still feel like I'm 
confidently say that this is the

1138
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:43,319
best of of the was and and it 
was it was before everything 

1139
01:09:43,319 --> 01:09:48,240
became dark in Spike's world and
and yeah and the war informed 

1140
01:09:48,359 --> 01:09:50,520
Spike's worldview like you said 
earlier. 

1141
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:55,000
Informs the war of the worldview
of that entire generation, I 

1142
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:57,440
would say it's. 
I mean, I'm not the first person

1143
01:09:57,440 --> 01:10:00,880
to notice how many bombs and 
explosions and people. 

1144
01:10:01,440 --> 01:10:04,760
Dying and coming back to life or
in episodes of The Goom Show, 

1145
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:11,880
but it's you can't help but feel
that basically everything after 

1146
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:17,360
the war is a reaction to it. 
It's spiked more than most, I 

1147
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:19,240
would have said. 
Well, he need, I think in a way 

1148
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:22,280
he needed the that he probably 
disagree, but he needed the war.

1149
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,160
If the war hadn't happened, 
would spike. 

1150
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:26,520
Yeah, probably just become a 
musician or something, wouldn't 

1151
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:30,040
he? 
It's an interesting one, isn't 

1152
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:30,760
that? 
That's. 

1153
01:10:31,660 --> 01:10:33,220
You know that. 
Would he ever have got out of 

1154
01:10:33,220 --> 01:10:35,420
Jimmy Grafton's attic? 
Would he ever have got into 

1155
01:10:35,420 --> 01:10:37,220
Jimmy Grafton's attic? 
Come to that? 

1156
01:10:37,380 --> 01:10:42,460
If it wasn't for the contacts he
made in the war, it's yeah, for 

1157
01:10:42,460 --> 01:10:45,580
better or for worse. 
The war pretty much informs 

1158
01:10:45,580 --> 01:10:48,340
everything that he became, I 
would say. 

1159
01:10:48,820 --> 01:10:54,660
And I know he was very proud of 
this book and he wrote to his 

1160
01:10:54,660 --> 01:10:58,660
close friend Robert Graves, the 
writer of Goodbye to All That, 

1161
01:10:59,820 --> 01:11:02,620
soon after. 
Adolf Hitler, my part in his 

1162
01:11:02,620 --> 01:11:05,060
downfall, was published and he 
wrote. 

1163
01:11:05,260 --> 01:11:07,020
He wrote Beyond My Wildest 
dreams. 

1164
01:11:07,020 --> 01:11:09,980
It became a bestseller. 
The first thing I did was to 

1165
01:11:09,980 --> 01:11:13,900
phone my parents in Australia, 
and in doing so I realized, in 

1166
01:11:13,900 --> 01:11:17,380
fact I was a little boy of seven
running to his mom and dad to 

1167
01:11:17,380 --> 01:11:19,820
tell them that he'd got a good 
conduct star at school. 

1168
01:11:20,900 --> 01:11:24,660
Anyway, it sold 30,000 copies, 
and it had to reprint almost at 

1169
01:11:24,660 --> 01:11:26,740
once. 
I can't tell you how good it 

1170
01:11:26,740 --> 01:11:29,900
feels for a person whose 
education ended at 14. 

1171
01:11:30,310 --> 01:11:32,910
To be a bestseller. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1172
01:11:32,910 --> 01:11:34,950
It's it's validation, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

1173
01:11:37,030 --> 01:11:39,750
And he's rightfully, he's right 
to be proud of it. 

1174
01:11:39,830 --> 01:11:44,310
It's it's a wonderful book. 
It's a kind of feel with the 

1175
01:11:44,310 --> 01:11:48,990
memoirs that as they go on, they
could use a Stern editor, 

1176
01:11:49,710 --> 01:11:53,430
definitely. 
But this one, as I said right at

1177
01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:57,670
the start of this, it's so 
compact and so compressed. 

1178
01:11:57,830 --> 01:12:01,980
You know there's there's not. 
Not an ounce of fat in it. 

1179
01:12:02,020 --> 01:12:09,420
And I would, I would probably 
say it, it's my single favorite 

1180
01:12:09,820 --> 01:12:12,340
book that Milligan ever came out
with. 

1181
01:12:12,740 --> 01:12:16,140
Not not pocoon, not even not 
pocoon. 

1182
01:12:16,140 --> 01:12:18,420
I mean, I love pocoon very, very
much so. 

1183
01:12:18,420 --> 01:12:23,660
But this one, just that 
wonderful mix of kind of. 

1184
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:33,080
Wit and enthusiasm and that 
keening nostalgia as well, that 

1185
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:34,920
breaks through every now and 
then. 

1186
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:41,760
It kind of, if you wanted me to 
point at something that would 

1187
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:45,920
demonstrate, you know, why I've 
been fascinated by Spike 

1188
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:47,480
Milligan. 
I don't always love him. 

1189
01:12:47,900 --> 01:12:51,300
You know, but that's you know, 
There are times when I could see

1190
01:12:51,300 --> 01:12:54,540
him far enough, but I don't 
always adore him. 

1191
01:12:54,540 --> 01:12:58,580
But I find him constantly 
fascinating, and this book is 

1192
01:12:58,580 --> 01:13:02,340
probably Exhibit A. 
Everything I love about him is 

1193
01:13:02,340 --> 01:13:04,860
in here, and I cannot recommend 
it highly enough. 

1194
01:13:05,060 --> 01:13:10,020
Yeah, when I was reading the 
book, preparing for this because

1195
01:13:10,020 --> 01:13:14,820
I'm a Twitter Hore, I am I from 
the GOOM part account I. 

1196
01:13:15,430 --> 01:13:18,470
Tweeted that I'm rereading out 
of Hitler, my partner's downfall

1197
01:13:18,750 --> 01:13:22,590
and this sequence had me hooting
and I quote the bit when spikes 

1198
01:13:22,590 --> 01:13:26,910
applying to join the RAF and I 
think it's leather Suitcase. 

1199
01:13:26,910 --> 01:13:29,430
Who asks him. 
Have you ever flown before? 

1200
01:13:30,110 --> 01:13:32,950
Milligan replies. 
No Sir, but I've been upstairs 

1201
01:13:32,950 --> 01:13:37,710
on a bus so which I love, but I 
tweeted that. 

1202
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:41,960
And I got huge response, huge 
response, right load of people 

1203
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:45,680
liking it and all the rest of 
it, but also some replies and 

1204
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:48,680
just a handful of replies. 
I just wanted to mention because

1205
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:53,200
it just shows the sort of the, 
the love for the book, Roger 

1206
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:56,760
Stevenson says. 
I once read extracts to a class 

1207
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:59,680
of 11 year olds as they were 
studying World War Two. 

1208
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:02,640
Imagine that. 
I told him. 

1209
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,360
I told him this is what it was 
like for the ordinary soldier. 

1210
01:14:05,830 --> 01:14:07,390
I had to. 
I had to tone down the language 

1211
01:14:07,390 --> 01:14:11,990
in places. 
I'm sure you did, Roger, Steve 

1212
01:14:11,990 --> 01:14:14,110
Hyatt says. 
The line about this is the line 

1213
01:14:14,110 --> 01:14:16,310
we haven't quoted, the line 
about the light bulb in the 

1214
01:14:16,350 --> 01:14:20,150
office's office that was such a 
low wattage that when turned on,

1215
01:14:20,150 --> 01:14:28,110
it made the room darker. 
Ben Grabham says It's a genius 

1216
01:14:28,110 --> 01:14:30,990
book, perfectly encapsulates 
that fear of being called up. 

1217
01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:35,000
Some of his comrades were based 
on this book, possibly more out 

1218
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:39,920
there than Spike and Raymondus. 
Decis says it's amazing he made 

1219
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:42,320
it through the war alive. 
Thought his CEO's might have 

1220
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:47,360
dispatched him :) so yeah, so a 
lot of love for the book, 

1221
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:52,480
obviously off the back of that. 
And as I say, it's it's, you can

1222
01:14:52,480 --> 01:14:57,040
probably get it, probably pick 
it up for, I don't know, a 

1223
01:14:57,040 --> 01:15:00,120
fiver. 
Off Amazon and it's a quick read

1224
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:05,600
and it's there's multiple laughs
on every single page. 

1225
01:15:06,120 --> 01:15:07,440
Yeah. 
Very much so. 

1226
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:11,440
Very much so. 
And lastly, just one point. 

1227
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:18,320
You might not be aware of this, 
but on this podcast I try to 

1228
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:23,800
include as many gratuitous 
references to a certain. 

1229
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:31,240
Much maligned, perhaps comedian 
of yesteryear, Okay and a Little

1230
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:36,080
bird told me that something 
happened at your wedding, which 

1231
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:40,160
gives me the perfect excuse to 
invoke the name Hilda Baker 

1232
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:44,920
again. 
Oh, it very, very much did. 

1233
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,880
Yes. 
It's a treasured memory, believe

1234
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:51,560
you me. 
Would you like me to? 

1235
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:53,280
Yes. 
Yes. 

1236
01:15:53,800 --> 01:16:01,560
Yes, at our wedding, during the 
evening, basically before the 

1237
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:09,320
wedding, I sat down with the 
person who was running the night

1238
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:12,680
time entertainments, the disco, 
and he was like, is there 

1239
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:15,170
anything that you? 
Don't want it. 

1240
01:16:15,170 --> 01:16:17,650
You don't want me to play or 
whatever. 

1241
01:16:17,770 --> 01:16:19,690
And. 
Or is there anything that you do

1242
01:16:19,730 --> 01:16:23,050
specifically want me to play. 
And I've, you know, got through 

1243
01:16:23,050 --> 01:16:26,090
a fair amount of things. 
But the thing I missed out, the 

1244
01:16:26,090 --> 01:16:29,930
thing I didn't mention because 
it never even crossed my mind, 

1245
01:16:29,930 --> 01:16:34,050
was stuff from Greece, which of 
course turns up the wedding 

1246
01:16:34,050 --> 01:16:40,890
quite a lot and somewhere in the
middle of the evening you're the

1247
01:16:40,890 --> 01:16:47,550
one that I want stands on. 
And two gentlemen of our mutual 

1248
01:16:47,550 --> 01:16:52,710
acquaintance, Louis Barth and 
Ian Greaves, were at the 

1249
01:16:52,710 --> 01:16:56,030
wedding, I'm delighted to say, 
and I can still see them now, 

1250
01:16:56,470 --> 01:17:00,350
standing at the side of the 
dance floor as this kicked in. 

1251
01:17:01,030 --> 01:17:04,660
And the pair of them. 
Burst into an absolutely note 

1252
01:17:04,660 --> 01:17:09,940
perfect rendition of Arthur 
Mullard and Hilda Baker at such 

1253
01:17:10,020 --> 01:17:13,220
a volume that it actually 
drowned out to music. 

1254
01:17:13,780 --> 01:17:17,980
And they were note perfect. 
Well, I say note perfect as note

1255
01:17:17,980 --> 01:17:24,460
perfect as you can be. 
But yeah, it it that I can think

1256
01:17:24,460 --> 01:17:26,020
of. 
Very few people were blessed 

1257
01:17:26,020 --> 01:17:28,980
with something as wonderful at 
their wedding as as I was with 

1258
01:17:28,980 --> 01:17:31,220
that. 
I mean, I can still hear you 

1259
01:17:31,220 --> 01:17:32,100
better. 
Shape up. 

1260
01:17:32,500 --> 01:17:36,420
Because I need a man blasting 
across the dance floor and 

1261
01:17:36,420 --> 01:17:39,140
people wetting themselves 
laughing. 

1262
01:17:39,620 --> 01:17:44,420
So yes, Hilda Baker was present 
on a very, very happy evening, 

1263
01:17:44,860 --> 01:17:47,500
so I'm delighted to share that 
with you. 

1264
01:17:48,140 --> 01:17:52,660
Very, very few things more 
disturbing than Hilda Baker and 

1265
01:17:52,660 --> 01:17:56,650
Arthur Mallard dressed up. 
On that episode of Top of the 

1266
01:17:56,650 --> 01:18:01,010
Pops. 
If you're filled with infection,

1267
01:18:01,810 --> 01:18:12,090
you're to sly to convey. 
Medicate in my direction, feel 

1268
01:18:12,090 --> 01:18:14,810
your way, I. 
Better Skype up. 

1269
01:18:16,690 --> 01:18:20,470
Cause you need a man. 
Terrifying. 

1270
01:18:20,910 --> 01:18:24,230
Absolutely terrifying. 
I mentioned that guy who played 

1271
01:18:24,230 --> 01:18:26,830
Gurbles in Downfall earlier. 
Actually, I think. 

1272
01:18:26,870 --> 01:18:29,590
I think Arthur Mullard and Hilda
Baker on Top of the Pops just 

1273
01:18:29,790 --> 01:18:32,870
just pips it. 
They haunt your nightmares. 

1274
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:37,070
Well, Walter, listen, it has 
been a blast. 

1275
01:18:37,110 --> 01:18:38,710
I've really enjoyed talking 
about. 

1276
01:18:38,710 --> 01:18:40,870
It's nice to talk about a book 
as well for change because we 

1277
01:18:41,230 --> 01:18:42,510
too often on this I'm talking 
about. 

1278
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:45,480
You know, films or goon shows or
TV shows or whatever. 

1279
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:50,160
So it's nice to talk about a 
book and take it a bit, take 

1280
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:51,840
things a bit more highbrow for 
change. 

1281
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:59,800
So, so thank you very, very much
for joining me today and I 

1282
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,720
would, I would love to get you 
back sometime if if the fancy 

1283
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,060
takes you. 
Oh, thank you very much. 

1284
01:19:06,060 --> 01:19:08,900
It's been an absolute pleasure. 
Thanks for asking me. 

1285
01:19:09,060 --> 01:19:55,090
Loved every minute of it. 
Ha, ha, ha, ha.